Ridley Scott in his director's commentary for the first Alien DVD, said that Space Jockeys created Xenomorphs as biogenic weapons to fight an ancient war and According to the book "Giger's Alien," the eggs were originally meant to be housed in a completely separate architectural structure, shaped in the form of a massive pyramid. This would imply the previous existence of a native civilization, wiped out by their reverence for the creatures.
One of these has to be the true Origin to the Xenomorphs.
well, based on what I've seen in the films, ive always been a suporter of the Space Jockey creation theory. I hold that the xenos were created by the SJs as a biological weapon, the "Perfect Organsim".
Since I'm not lazy and am willing to dig deeper than the movies, I go with the idea that Jockeys had found the eggs on that world. Aside from that, there was nothing but Ridley Scott's speculation that the Jockeys had brought them to that planet, aside from bad fan-fic.
What Mal said is perfectly viable since it's based on O'Bannon's original concept, and I love the idea the all the eggs are the former Derelict crew.
Personally though I prefer the explanation that the Jockies were transporting them, one escaped and hugged the pilot and he set down (NOT crashed) on LV-426 before he bursted. However I don't think the Jockies ever created them - they just found them and were trying to exploit them like WY or USM.
I like the idea that SOMEONE created them. Maybe not the Jockey's, I just like the idea that the Jockey's are as foolish as Humans.
I like the idea that nature would create a creature like that on its own. If I "knew" that it was made in a lab, every act of aggression that the creature makes would be expected of it.
If it was natural, the idea of visiting it's homeworld would be interesting. There's always something more fierce than everything else. To have adapted and evolved into something like the Aliens would mean it's homeworld would be VERY hostile. Could you imagine some of the other creatures on the homeworld?
I couldnt imagine them being a naturaly occuring creature on some far-off world. Biologically they dont make sense, they quickly consume all their reasources and dont seem to have a long life-span, and through that [in a sense] destroy themselfs.
although I could be way off the mark, it could be on their homeworld (assuming there is one) that there is more balance. That would be one hell of a planet.
So I guess it could be that they are natural from somewhere, but I personally like the 'perfect organism' bio-weapon theory.
Quote from: Eidotemit on Jan 25, 2007, 08:06:16 PM
I couldnt imagine them being a naturaly occuring creature on some far-off world. Biologically they dont make sense, they quickly consume all their reasources and dont seem to have a long life-span, and through that [in a sense] destroy themselfs.
You've pretty much described some attributes of terrestrial insects.
I think the Aliens could be from a multi-cultural planet but have evolved into the dominant species. If they were developed as a weapon How do you explain the Queen? There are so many explanations to there existenz. I hope they have a good one For Alien 5.
Hope Alien5 ( if there will be one ) will be a disaster movie. Aliens get on earth and kill everything. Even penguins.
No...not the Penguins!
QuoteI like the idea that nature would create a creature like that on its own.
'ken oath!
Much scarier concept than tired old 'genetically engineered bioweapon'.
I wounder what Aliens first looked like, the ones we see in the films came from Humans and Predator so I wounder what they first looked like ???
Same as they do now with minor variations here and there.
As to lifespan, I always figured it was indefinite. Like they could potentially live forever assuming nothing ever causes enough trauma to kill it.
Death from age may just be a terrestrial earth concept, or at least irrelevant to them.
It is possible that the aliens were engineered, and then evolved further, after being made.
It is possible that they were made with a failsafe, one that they outgrew, or evolved past.
Perhaps the Queen is the alien's evolutionary response to outgrowing the need to make eggs from potential hosts, and now they can make eggs en-mass so that they will be more eggs available than hosts. This way their potential numbers double.
Maybe they were made to be sterile. One gets made from a manufactured egg, and the resulting alien from the infection would infiltrate the enemy and cause havoc.
Then one alien mutated and gained the ability to morph a victim into an egg, and now they could reproduce, until eventually one more alien mutated and made the first "Queen bearing" egg, and now they have a Queen to make eggs.
I think it is fun to speculate, and I hope no official word is ever given on it. I prefer the mystery.
They could still have a populated home world, either one that they evolved on, or one that they are the existing dominant life form on, even if engineered elsewhere, that is essentially a home world to them.
If they have no official home world, then to all worlds; they are ALIENS.
I think that the aliens were made from fairy dust, modified by elves. After a year, their hard, chitinous exteriors grow fur and they purr like giant kitty cats.
I have to say that i think the alien has a home world, there is no way that the story was created with the concept that they were created to be used s weapons. I think the Spac jockey found the home planet and like any species, was interested in it and took alot of samples. Only for things to go wrong though.
The alien race is too perfect, the life cycle is too detailed to be designed by another form of alien. If you were going to create a army of bad ass aliens wouldnt you just skip to the end (forget the egg, chestburster) and just create a warrior Alien.
There could be a few reasons. It could ahve been viewed as too much of a risk to store adult warrior aliens, the eggs ensure, or give a better chance of, safe travel. The Queen ensures that the eggs keep coming. The facehuggers ensure at the very least 1 person will die from impregnation.
its still possible
yeah ok its still possible. But its just as dangerous to be carrying a cargo full of alien eggs as it would be to be carrying alien warriors if you get me.
the species still has one motive.
The eggs could be contained easier than a Drone could, we all saw how A:R went down.
yeah i understand what you mean i just prefer the idea that they wernt created by another alien race.
yeah, I'm still on the fence about it. Maybe if there ever is an A5 it'll settle it. Untill then I could defend each side.
awwwww Alien 5! if only. I was so annoyed that fox decided to go with paul anderson instead of james cameron. Its like fox like pissing off the fans, clearly if James Cameron had written alien 5 fox put it into production they would of had a hit.
OOHHHHHHH no, lets go with that guy made mortal combat and resident evil. you know the guy the one who ruined all them films.
Lets hope everything the strause brothers have been saying is actually true because at the moment im not really falling for it. As we heard it all before with PA when he was doing AVP, 'im the biggest alien fan'. Clearly not paul because what you did was a first time directors wet dream! :)
Ya, I have no high expectations for this like I did AvP. Set the bar low enough, and youre bound to be at least a little pleased.
to be honest i dont think anyone can do a worse job than paul anderson. I think the only thing that could let the film down may be the script. But handled well it can make all the difference.
From what I remember of Ridley Scott's commentary he just said that the Space Jockey's race uses the alien eggs as weapons. I don't remember him ever saying that they created them. Which part of the commentary did he say this in?
Quote from: Extroheal on Mar 24, 2007, 11:57:18 PM
From what I remember of Ridley Scott's commentary he just said that the Space Jockey's race uses the alien eggs as weapons. I don't remember him ever saying that they created them. Which part of the commentary did he say this in?
He didn't he said what you said, sort of :P
If the aliens are a naturally occurring species why do they have a human skull at the front of their heads ??
They take on the characteristics of their host species.
btw:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Foriginal%2F000%2F028%2F432%2FThreadNecro.gif&hash=fdf673721372727de22736d0596db263403717f3)
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jun 15, 2014, 04:11:29 PM
They take on the characteristics of their host species.
btw:
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/028/432/ThreadNecro.gif
What were there first hosts ?? Spaihts draft says the facehuggers are weaponised huggers that lived in the caves of LV 426 - octopoid creatures that were soft with no hard parts. That produces a wraith like creature that has a goblin shark like head.
Not sure what Spaihts was smoking if that was indeed in his draft but the Xenomorphs were not indigenous to LV 426.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jun 15, 2014, 07:00:12 PM
Not sure what Spaihts was smoking if that was indeed in his draft but the Xenomorphs were not indigenous to LV 426.
Yes the huggers were weaponised versions of the soft octopoid huggers.
That's the origins of the xeno from spaihts draft . This would suggest that the engineers genetically changed the original huggers to become what we saw in alien and hence the xeno
And that they are not naturally occuring.
But ofcourse it isn't canon as we don't see it in the movies.
Ridley seemed to like it
Dunno
I thought they were supposed to be some cave dwelling ceiling hanging yo-yo creature? That drops down to rape you and then winds back up? Now it is an octopus...
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jun 15, 2014, 09:37:28 PM
I thought they were supposed to be some cave dwelling ceiling hanging yo-yo creature? That drops down to rape you and then winds back up?
That's correct . The engineers genetically altered them to be hard and bony and that's how the facehugger came to be. How they ended up in eggs I don't know . But as I said its not canon as it's in none of the movies.
I always hated and shivered at the idea that aliens are just someones genetic lab creation. It makes them so generic - evil experiment, monster out of control kind of thing. What I always absolutely loved was that Lovecraftian feel to them in the first film, that they are some ancient species , thousands if not millions of years old, which ended any civilization that it came to contact with and was lying dormant until awakened after millenniums by the Nostromo crew. Some naturally born ancient species from a homeworld so horrific it would be hard to visualize
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jun 16, 2014, 04:48:10 AM
I always hated and shivered at the idea that aliens are just someones genetic lab creation. It makes them so generic - evil experiment, monster out of control kind of thing. What I always absolutely loved was that Lovecraftian feel to them in the first film, that they are some ancient species , thousands if not millions of years old, which ended any civilization that it came to contact with and was lying dormant until awakened after millenniums by the Nostromo crew. Some naturally born ancient species from a homeworld so horrific it would be hard to visualize
Oh man don't we all!
However it appears to have been genetically made. Especially if one considers the xeno on the wall to be Pandora and the urns gods blessing. Which would follow the original Greek telling of Prometheus.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jun 15, 2014, 07:00:12 PM
Not sure what Spaihts was smoking if that was indeed in his draft but the Xenomorphs were not indigenous to LV 426.
They were originally.
Yeah, I remember Dan O'Bannon's original script had the Jockey's discover the eggs on the planet. Then Scott began musing about the idea of the creatures being the Jockey's biological weapons and the derelict being some kind of "bomber".
Cameron of course went with Scott's line of thought but "Alien" on it's own is still ambiguous enough to allow either theories.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jun 16, 2014, 01:07:47 PM
Then Scott began musing about the idea of the creatures being the Jockey's biological weapons and the derelict being some kind of "bomber".
Isn't this something like the Headcrab Pods in Half-Life 2 ? :)
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jun 16, 2014, 01:07:47 PM
Yeah, I remember Dan O'Bannon's original script had the Jockey's discover the eggs on the planet. Then Scott began musing about the idea of the creatures being the Jockey's biological weapons and the derelict being some kind of "bomber".
Scotts a great visionary and has some great ideas, but this wasnt one of them. As I said, I preferred aliens to be a mystery, an ancient extinct species which is a mystery and novelty even for the Jockeys. Its all a matter of personal preference of course
I feel the same way to a certain extent especially with regards to the Space Jockey. Scott can conjure up some really interesting out-of-the-left-field ideas but as you say, they are not always that great.
At least he managed to prevent Hill and Giler from straying too far from Dan's original script. Those two had some really bizarre ideas in their earlier script rewrite attempts. But I think we got a good balance in the end.
Quote from: Randomizer on Jun 16, 2014, 03:21:50 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jun 16, 2014, 01:07:47 PM
Then Scott began musing about the idea of the creatures being the Jockey's biological weapons and the derelict being some kind of "bomber".
Isn't this something like the Headcrab Pods in Half-Life 2 ? :)
You mean Spaihts cave dwelling ceiling hanging yo-yo creatures?
Quote from: Randomizer on Jun 16, 2014, 03:21:50 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jun 16, 2014, 01:07:47 PM
Then Scott began musing about the idea of the creatures being the Jockey's biological weapons and the derelict being some kind of "bomber".
Isn't this something like the Headcrab Pods in Half-Life 2 ? :)
You mean Spaihts cave dwelling ceiling hanging yo-yo creatures?
[/quote]
Yes , I meant those .
I don't know. Anyone here know if there was ever any concept art created for Spaihts creatures?
I'm with Ridley, I like the bio-weapon idea.
Interesting that several scripts have proposed confirming the concept, but it never quite made it to the screen.
I prefer the life form that somehow survives on the most pissed ass f**ked planet in the universe. Like the oceans are made out of the thing from the blob. Yes basically the oceans are a sea of blobs. The skies are full of floating man eating clown balloon things. Cthulhu is someones bitch on this world. Literally tied down to a mountain via it's own tentacles. We'll make is a 1000 foot space jockey monkey elephant man. The mud is black goo! Oh and gotta have that thing thing.... thing. But it's just a lazy thing that steals the shape of other creatures for camouflage. Yea a planet that is messed up beyond all logical reason.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.prometheus2-movie.com%2Fmedia%2Fconcept005.jpg&hash=b77d07d5bd95895a05b5af5363d3d610a550215d)
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jun 17, 2014, 05:49:18 PM
I don't know. Anyone here know if there was ever any concept art created for Spaihts creatures?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/prometheus/creatures/creatures004.jpg)
Awesome! Thanks guys!
What's that crap supposed to be?
Cornbread, I think.
Really mushy cornbread.
With mucus.
Is it good for me? Should I eat it?
It's the only thing good on this ship.
That is supposed to be the answer to this thread: The origin of the Alien.
It's a Facehugger before it was modified genetically and hypothetically to be what we all recognize today. Unfortunately this isn't cannon so this doesn't correlate with the Xenomorph story at all. I find it rather odd that this thread was bumped with the same questions asked in 2007 when Prometheus pretty much filled in most of the mysterious detail regarding the background of Alien.
Prometheus didn't tell us shit about the Alien.
Except that the Engineers like decorating their temples with murals of them.
It was never supposed to. Prometheus was made to answer who was they guy in the chair in Alien. Now we know.
And some people CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH.
QuoteCthulhu is someones bitch on this world.
Earth you mean?
I agree, if anything we got to see that the picture is vast yet still vague. However it did answer the mystery of the space jockeys and I am almost certain that the black goo has something to do with Alien. Please correct me if I am wrong.
This has probally already been said but the most logical origin for the xenos would be them being a naturally occurring species that the jockeys and engineers discovered. This origin allows for more interesting stories and a good explanation to some prometheus questions.
Quote from: Spoonman101 on Jun 19, 2014, 03:08:28 AM
I agree, if anything we got to see that the picture is vast yet still vague. However it did answer the mystery of the space jockeys and I am almost certain that the black goo has something to do with Alien. Please correct me if I am wrong.
We know they resemble humans who wear suits. We know they were involved in our past (and maybe guided our evolution) and we know they intended to destroy us.
There's still so much more they have to tell us.
It depends on how one defines "the mystery of the Space Jockies".
If it's "Who is that guy?" then Prometheus answers it somewhat.
If it's "What was that guy doing on the planet with all those eggs?" then Prometheus doesn't answer jack.
I surmised, and just hear me out with this one lol, that a xeno got loose and secreted resin all over the ampules, essentially cocooning them, and we know those ampules are already volatile and sensitive to temperature (the mutagen literally melts through the top of the metal containers thus there is some crazy bio-mechanical tech going on there). I remember Janek asking how many ampules there were in the cargo hold of the Juggernaut (the stacked pillars) and Shaw says 'thousands', similar to the inquiry in Aliens when Ripley says Kane saw 'thousands' of eggs. I don't know how a Jockey would go about loading up thousands of eggs without getting face raped (isn't that what happened in transit?) and I don't buy that a Queen laid eggs after bursting out of the pilot in a silo that was built to store eggs, as if it was built to anticipate that happening lol So can we be sure that the derelict was always carrying a cargo of eggs? Or did something happen to a silo full of ampules that made them change into the leathery things we see in Alien?
I remember in the original O'Bannon script that the eggs were originally described as urns with strange markings until the description became eggs or spores, I think there's something to it. Remember that mural of the egg being clutched by xeno hands? The one you can only barely make out in the film when the temperature in the ampule chamber changes?
Hmmm, anyway, I'm sure the upcoming Dark Horse comics will touch on all this stuff.
I like the idea that they are bioengineered as weapons and that the eggs on the derelict may be the only ones. It adds rarity to the species making them unique, and explains why WY were so desperate to get their hands on one. I hate that there's a whole planet of them waiting to be found.
Me too, the metal of the urns also might explain the metalloid attributes of the classic xeno, if what is inside the ampules is DNA and simply needs a womb to develop into a facehugger creature then whatever went loose (a Deacon perhaps? Recall that scream that sounds like a Deacon when David activates the holographic recording in the temple) simply secreted slime over the ampules, which slowly changed into leathery pods or 'eggs'. The engineers' bio-weapon got out of control and evolved far beyond what they anticipated, resulting in the derelict Juggernaut that parked on LV-426 with those eggs. I think this is a sound explanation and quite simple, the more long-winded and complex fan theories become the less likely that they are true. I remember Lindelof saying that whether the deacon was an egg layer or not (doubtful since it was born attached to a placenta, unless it's some kind of platypus lol) was open to interpretation and that there were clues in the movie that led you down a path, I believe those clues are the ampules that are arranged in a strikingly similar way as the eggs were on the derelict.
Production designer Arthur Max stated that they made the ampule chamber to parallel the egg chamber in Alien and the way something that is organic (black goo) reacts and combines with something that isn't (metal) is pretty interesting not to mention that the ampules react to the presence of the crew in much the same way the eggs reacted to Kane's presence in the derelict; both began 'sweating'. Ridley stated that the eggs had a deliberate layout so obviously it was a cargo hold and he's also stated that 'something went loose' and the cargo 'got out of control'.
Quote from: Ghostface on Jun 19, 2014, 10:20:16 PMI like the idea that they are bioengineered as weapons and that the eggs on the derelict may be the only ones. It adds rarity to the species making them unique, and explains why WY were so desperate to get their hands on one. I hate that there's a whole planet of them waiting to be found.
Yeah, the idea of a 'Xenomorph home world' has always irked me too.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jun 20, 2014, 07:36:30 AM
Yeah, the idea of a 'Xenomorph home world' has always irked me too.
Would be rather fitting if they originated as some bizarre space-borne organism that was happened upon by some other alien species eons ago, which in turn triggered evolutionary changes that lead to the creature we see in the films.
I'd rather that then just having them come from planet
HR Giger Painting.
Then again, I think the whole idea should just remain a mystery.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Jun 20, 2014, 10:07:51 AMThen again, I think the whole idea should just remain a mystery.
THIS.
I don't get the obsession with getting an answer. The mystery is far more compelling.
Thank the Gods that the Brothers Strauss didn't go to the homeworld.
Although I prefer a naturally evolved alien, I can live with the bioweapon idea. I thought it was an interesting idea back in the late 90's when I first heard of it. However I want to see something put to film already. I want to be entertained. :P Prometheus only tickled the idea but didn't explain it.
I found this while going thru some of my Starlog magazines. I'd rate this as goofy.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FntkMx7N.jpg&hash=b008e4f3512b2ec83bdfa9bc03c73d2418e3759c)
I like their origin remaining a mystery, although out of everything I like them being used as biological weapon by the Space Jockeys most. The best part about that theory though imo is that the Aliens could have been naturally occurring and then messed with genetically by the Space Jockey's to suit certain situations.
Xenomorphs being a bioweapon is actually a concept less scary that them having their own planet. Can you imagine how the planet would look like? Or what else could be living there? That's both: very interesting and exciting and scary like hell. I would like to see that ;D
Quote from: Garrus_Vakarian on Nov 07, 2014, 07:48:08 AM
Xenomorphs being a bioweapon is actually a concept less scary that them having their own planet. Can you imagine how the planet would look like? Or what else could be living there? That's both: very interesting and exciting and scary like hell. I would like to see that ;D
The biggest issue with that? No more Giger to design it.
Quote from: Garrus_Vakarian on Nov 07, 2014, 07:48:08 AM
Can you imagine how the planet would look like? Or what else could be living there?
On the home planet what species would serve as hosts for the eggs? Would they breed them for this?...like we breed livestock for food?
That was one of the most interesting aspects of Labyrinth. I'd love to see that kind of intelligence in a film.
Quote from: meshuggah on Jun 19, 2014, 12:51:50 PM
I remember in the original O'Bannon script that the eggs were originally described as urns with strange markings
They were always eggs in O'Bannon's script. They were simply mistaken for urns. Melkonis says: "At first I thought they were jars too, or artifacts anyway. But they're not. They're eggs, or spore casings."
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 07, 2014, 05:01:03 PM
That was one of the most interesting aspects of Labyrinth. I'd love to see that kind of intelligence in a film.
Doesn't even go against people who like Aliens to be space-ants. Certain ants "farm" aphids.
Quote from: Darwinsgirl on Nov 06, 2014, 07:20:27 PM
I found this while going thru some of my Starlog magazines. I'd rate this as goofy.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FntkMx7N.jpg&hash=b008e4f3512b2ec83bdfa9bc03c73d2418e3759c)
I laugh every time I see that.
so bad.
I like Spaihts idea that the Aliens were designed specifically to destroy ancient humans. It makes sense to me.
Quote from: Valaquen on Nov 07, 2014, 06:07:31 PM
Quote from: meshuggah on Jun 19, 2014, 12:51:50 PM
I remember in the original O'Bannon script that the eggs were originally described as urns with strange markings
They were always eggs in O'Bannon's script. They were simply mistaken for urns. Melkonis says: "At first I thought they were jars too, or artifacts anyway. But they're not. They're eggs, or spore casings."
Yeah I knew that, hence why I said they were
originally described as urns, not that they were actually urns. That early description in the script obviously influenced Prometheus. Anyway, I think it's easier to think that the engineers simply created the eggs to incubate the facehuggers they extract from female wombs, obviously they would have to extract them at an early stage. I came to this mostly because Ridley wanted the interior of the engineer's helmet to be molded from stomach lining, much like the interior of the eggs. Ergo, I surmise that the flight suit is made from the same material. Also, there were different sized urns in the ampule chamber, I think each urn contains a different "mix", if you will, where the large urns are the big daddies, our classic xenos. I think Darkhorse are going to shed more light on this stuff with their final comic in the Fire and Stone series.
Quote from: meshuggah on Nov 08, 2014, 06:48:49 AM
Quote from: Valaquen on Nov 07, 2014, 06:07:31 PM
Quote from: meshuggah on Jun 19, 2014, 12:51:50 PM
I remember in the original O'Bannon script that the eggs were originally described as urns with strange markings
They were always eggs in O'Bannon's script. They were simply mistaken for urns. Melkonis says: "At first I thought they were jars too, or artifacts anyway. But they're not. They're eggs, or spore casings."
Yeah I knew that, hence why I said they were originally described as urns, not that they were actually urns.
Sorry dude.
Also, in early scripts by Giler and Hill, they describe the egg silo as being piled up with "urns" in a manner that's also reminiscent of the stockpiles in Prometheus. I don't know if that's a coincidence or not.
Quote from: Valaquen on Nov 08, 2014, 02:03:55 PM
Quote from: meshuggah on Nov 08, 2014, 06:48:49 AM
Quote from: Valaquen on Nov 07, 2014, 06:07:31 PM
Quote from: meshuggah on Jun 19, 2014, 12:51:50 PM
I remember in the original O'Bannon script that the eggs were originally described as urns with strange markings
They were always eggs in O'Bannon's script. They were simply mistaken for urns. Melkonis says: "At first I thought they were jars too, or artifacts anyway. But they're not. They're eggs, or spore casings."
Yeah I knew that, hence why I said they were originally described as urns, not that they were actually urns.
Sorry dude.
Also, in early scripts by Giler and Hill, they describe the egg silo as being piled up with "urns" in a manner that's also reminiscent of the stockpiles in Prometheus. I don't know if that's a coincidence or not.
Like poor Yorick's head in Prometheus?
So it seems to me that there are two possible interpretations of the information we have.
1. The Engineers created xenomorphs as a weapon, and created the black liquid as another weapon. Somehow, the two are related enough that there's a xenomorph mural in the urn room, and related enough for a series of black liquid contamination events to ultimately produce something like the Deacon.
2. The Engineers found the xenomorphs, whose unique and essentially impossible biology became the foundation for the Engineers' technology ("new alloys, new vaccines," to echo Gediman). Their ability to borrow the genetic characteristics of their hosts became the basis for the Engineers' black liquid, which manipulates DNA and which can apparently transfer Engineer DNA to lower lifeforms. Their structural biology became the basis for Engineer architecture and shipbuilding, explaining the Gigeresque designs of Engineer construction. The mural in the urn room was an expression of reverence for the creature which gave them their technology, and the Deacon was either a product of the re-emergence of xenomorph traits following serial black liquid contamination events, or a product of xenomorph DNA in the "weaponized" black oil on LV-223, as opposed to the terraforming/species building black oil used in the opening sequence.
Personally, I prefer the second option. As others have mentioned, it makes the xenomorph seem much more eldritch - it predates the Engineers, who are already billions of years old, and it is a product of the cold, unfeeling processes of the universe itself rather than a product of mere tinkering. It also gives a bit more meaning to the title of the latest film. The titan Prometheus gave man fire, which is both incredibly useful and incredibly destructive. Hypothesis 2 would have the Engineers finding the xenomorph an incredibly useful gift from the cosmos, but the Jockey on LV-426 would have found it incredibly destructive as well (and at least until the next film comes out, I like to imagine that the entire species learned the same thing).
Been a long time since I posted and I do agree with what Doktor said with option 2.
BUT I also think they hand intents to create a species of Xenomorphs that could be used as weapons. The "stasis fields" on the Derelict were used to alter the Xenomorph coding so that they would die after wiping out their target similar to ideas in ALIEN. These Xenos were also weaker.
I think we have yet to see a Xenomorph at it's full potential. Unrestricted by a Engineer, people, etc. Then again the idea of the chicken or the egg is even more dominant and unanswerable if the Xenomorphs are a natural species... what would the true original Xenomorph look like. As cliche and campy as it sounds I'd like to see a character in a future movie find this original Xenomorph and mistake it for God or perhaps Satan. It would actually sorta fit in with the symbolic ideas Prometheus has and its sequels will have I'm sure.
I really wish a good creative team of writers could team up with a director (Preferably someone who clearly respects and loves the original 2... or 3) to continue the franchise. I trust Ridley Scott's direction and his ideas but his choice of writers seems to be pretty poor.
I prefer to believe that the engineers used the aliens to depopulate inhabited worlds of potentially dangerous natives and pave the way for colonization. In other words, they would serve the engineers in much the same way as the USCM served the company.
Quote from: Kelgaard on Nov 08, 2014, 06:23:24 AMI like Spaihts idea that the Aliens were designed specifically to destroy ancient humans. It makes sense to me.
That does sound interesting...and we don't go to waste either!
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 11, 2014, 05:22:39 PM
I prefer to believe that the engineers used the aliens to depopulate inhabited worlds of potentially dangerous natives and pave the way for colonization. In other words, they would serve the engineers in much the same way as the USCM served the company.
that would be the route i'd go down. it would give a film a nice juxtaposition. as far as the alien's origin i couldn't care. i dont want to see them being created by engineers or an attempt at their homeworld. leave that for the EU
Quote from: magical_boy on Nov 12, 2014, 10:08:37 AM
Quote from: Kelgaard on Nov 08, 2014, 06:23:24 AMI like Spaihts idea that the Aliens were designed specifically to destroy ancient humans. It makes sense to me.
That does sound interesting...and we don't go to waste either!
Too anthropocentric for my tastes. I prefer the idea that the aliens can breed within virtually any animalistic organism so long as they're within a certain size range that the facehuggers are capable of attaching to.
And then, for the purpose of depopulating an ecosystem of any species too large to breed within, the adult alien soldiers could swarm and kill them outright like a pack of hyenas taking down a water buffalo.
The way I have always looked at it was that the Alien species is naturally occurring and the engineers found it which led them to study it. They realize it is too dangerous and uncontrollable and harvest its DNA to create a better weapon which is the black goo.
Im hoping that this is what they go if they touch apon the topic in a sequal because saying that the engineers created us and the Alien is just too much.
Quote from: Kelgaard on Nov 08, 2014, 06:23:24 AM
I like Spaihts idea that the Aliens were designed specifically to destroy ancient humans. It makes sense to me.
Not to me. There are a hell of a lot easier ways to go about genocide of primitive humans. A simple series of explosives would do it or, if you want something more surgical, a genetically-engineered plague.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 11, 2014, 05:22:39 PM
I prefer to believe that the engineers used the aliens to depopulate inhabited worlds of potentially dangerous natives and pave the way for colonization.
But we haven't seen they would have had any capability to control or get rid of them. Would be fairly counter-productive.
A neutron bomb, on the other hand, kills anything organic and the surrounding area is only irradiated for about a couple of weeks.
Aliens would be a sadistic method of area denial, but only if you have no interest in the location, yourself (or, quite possibly, the entire planet, considering how fast a group of the things can multiply).
QuoteIn other words, they would serve the engineers in much the same way as the USCM served the company.
But the Colonial Marines didn't serve Weyland-Yutani. Remember Ripley's counter-argument to Burke, about how the mission has changed to being "under military jurisdiction"?
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 12, 2014, 08:26:11 PMBut we haven't seen they would have had any capability to control or get rid of them. Would be fairly counter-productive.
They wouldn't need to if the aliens die out naturally after exhausting the target world of hosts.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 12, 2014, 08:26:11 PM
A neutron bomb, on the other hand, kills anything organic and the surrounding area is only irradiated for about a couple of weeks.
And would probably kill
all life in the area, not just those species that the engineers might deem threatening. The scenario I'm proposing is one in which the engineers want the ecosystem to remain mostly intact. Mostly.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 12, 2014, 08:26:11 PMQuoteIn other words, they would serve the engineers in much the same way as the USCM served the company.
But the Colonial Marines didn't serve Weyland-Yutani. Remember Ripley's counter-argument to Burke, about how the mission has changed to being "under military jurisdiction"?
I know that, but I'm assuming that bug hunts are usually undertaken on the company's (or ECA's) behalf to make habitable worlds safer to colonize and/or commercially exploit.
QuoteToo anthropocentric for my tastes
*looks up anthropocentric*
It's no worse than finding out the Space Jockeys are human.
QuoteNot to me. There are a hell of a lot easier ways to go about genocide of primitive humans. A simple series of explosives would do it or, if you want something more surgical, a genetically-engineered plague.
I was thinking about the design and purpose of the aliens themselves.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 12, 2014, 08:46:40 PM
They wouldn't need to if the aliens die out naturally after exhausting the target world of hosts.
Judging by the second film, they don't. They just go into limited hibernation, with one or more doing periodic patrols (hence, why the female colonist was caught shortly before the Marines showed up and one boarded the dropship before eventual disaster happened).
QuoteAnd would probably kill all life in the area, not just those species that the engineers might deem threatening. The scenario I'm proposing is one in which the engineers want the ecosystem to remain mostly intact. Mostly.
Considering what the black ooze would have done to the entire planet, if unleashed, I don't tink they care. If anything showed their utter lack for preserving an existing ecosystem, that did.
QuoteI know that, but I'm assuming that bug hunts are usually undertaken on the company's (or ECA's) behalf to make habitable worlds safer to colonize and/or commercially exploit.
'Bug hunt' is a real-world military term, which has been in use for a long time. It doesn't mean literally wandering around and hunting for giant insectoid pests. :) It essentially means going on a wild goose chase, if memory serves correct (which is the cynical context in the movie it was being used in).
As for the Colonial Marines, they would answer to the government, not a company. Colonies are extensions of a particular nation's territory, just like in the real historical colonial days. So, Hadley's Hope would be under US (or United Americas, depending on what the political situation is meant to be) governance. Weyland-Yutani had a say in things, as regards what they've contributed, but they don't literally own it.
It'd be like if Boeing helped to contribute a lot of the hardware for an eventual Mars colony. They wouldn't own it. The US or China or whoever put it there, would. The US military might go up there for various reasons and Boeing would have possibly ourchased mining rights or something, but the actual colony, itself, wouldn't be legally owned by them.
Remember, Burke was worried about the "multi-million dollar
installation": Company hardware and investment (primarily, the atmosphere processor, presumably). He wasn't professing to be representative of a body which was in charge of the colony, as a whole. Marines had the final say.
Quote'Bug hunt' is a real-world military term, which has been in use for a long time. It doesn't mean literally wandering around and hunting for giant insectoid pests. It essentially means going on a wild goose chase, if memory serves correct (which is the cynical context in the movie it was being used in).
A wild goose chase is running around searching for something that isn't there or that can't be caught.
Based on Hicks dialogue, he knows it isn't a wild goose chase.
QuoteWeyland-Yutani had a say in things, as regards what they've contributed, but they don't literally own it.
It's a joint venture. They literally part own it and pay the salaries of - at least - the operational staff.
My mistake, it's Hudson:
"Is this gonna' be a stand-up fight, Sir or another bug-hunt?"
He's using 'bug-hunt' in its correct context: The opposite of unleashing firepower and doing what they're trained to do.
And yeah, in part. The want something in return for their investment, after all. But judging by Ripley's comments, Burke didn't have representative control and veto over the entire colony.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 13, 2014, 02:10:44 PMAnd yeah, in part. The want something in return for their investment, after all. But judging by Ripley's comments, Burke didn't have representative control and veto over the entire colony.
Even if he did, I imagine the others would've told him to shove it up his ass at that point.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 13, 2014, 01:57:53 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 12, 2014, 08:46:40 PM
They wouldn't need to if the aliens die out naturally after exhausting the target world of hosts.
Judging by the second film, they don't. They just go into limited hibernation, with one or more doing periodic patrols (hence, why the female colonist was caught shortly before the Marines showed up and one boarded the dropship before eventual disaster happened).
Hibernation doesn't make them immortal. If there are literally no more hosts left to be had, I imagine the aliens would eventually die. Perhaps within months.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 13, 2014, 01:57:53 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 12, 2014, 08:46:40 PMAnd would probably kill all life in the area, not just those species that the engineers might deem threatening. The scenario I'm proposing is one in which the engineers want the ecosystem to remain mostly intact. Mostly.
Considering what the black ooze would have done to the entire planet, if unleashed, I don't tink they care. If anything showed their utter lack for preserving an existing ecosystem, that did.
Yeah, but the aliens ain't the black ooze. The black ooze would probably kill all life, including plants and microbes, but the aliens' usefulness is more limited in scope.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 13, 2014, 01:57:53 AM
'Bug hunt' is a real-world military term, which has been in use for a long time. It doesn't mean literally wandering around and hunting for giant insectoid pests. :) It essentially means going on a wild goose chase, if memory serves correct (which is the cynical context in the movie it was being used in).
Believe me, and I think SM will vouch for me, I'm well aware that the USCM doesn't answer to the company.
Without quoting your entire post, my point was that "bug hunts" in the context of the Alienverse are more literal than their traditional military definition and are akin to using marines as glorified exterminators on worlds where the "bugs" are dangerous or simply inconvenient to the human settlers.
The way Hudson and Hicks talk about them, I suspect that the rank-and-file colonial marines think that their training and firepower are routinely squandered on boring assignments to protect "dumbass colonists" from benign wildlife that would probably leave them alone if they'd just keep their distance.
The rub is that the marines are supposed to protect and defend the colonists for the ECA, and it just so happens that a great number of those same colonists work for the company. So
ipso facto and all that.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 13, 2014, 02:10:44 PM
My mistake, it's Hudson:
SM was right the first time. It was Hicks' "it's a bug hunt" comment
after Gorman said a xenomorph may be involved that confirmed it was more than just a wild goose chase.
A "bug hunt" in Aliens is a literal hunt for bugs. Indigenous pests. Hence the 'Bug Stomper' nose art. Whatever contemporary parlance the term might have, in the film it means dealing with threats that are beyond the colonists ability to control. A "stand up fight" would be dealing with an organised human force - rebels/ terrorists etc.
The USCM would answer to the Company, if that was the agreed parameters of the mission. For the Hadley mission, it wasn't. The marines were in charge. Burke was in the right to protest against nuking the colony. The ECA would've backed him up. But it wasn't his call.
Had Gorman been conscious and composed at the time, I imagine he'd have opted to simply evacuate to the Sulaco, report that all the colonists were dead and assure Ripley that the planet would be officially quarantined. I'm sure that would have suited Burke just fine and Ripley would have had no other recourse short of inciting a mutiny.
Pretty much. She could've chewed Burke for breaking his word about going there to wipe them out, but he would've had Gorman on side.
Even then, Burke could have told Ripley that he never promised to nuke the entire colony just to wipe out her nightmare monsters.
He could have made a perfectly reasonable argument that it was enough to prohibit any landings on the planet and that they now had undeniable proof of Ripley's testimony from the inquest.
Not that Ripley would've bought any of it.
At least she'd be vindicated, not that she'd care since she'd probably spend the rest of her life a nervous wreck worrying that the company would sneak their way back to LV-426 and plunder it for specimens.
The Company would've sneaked back to LV-426 before the Sulaco broke orbit.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 11, 2014, 05:22:39 PM
I prefer to believe that the engineers used the aliens to depopulate inhabited worlds of potentially dangerous natives and pave the way for colonization.
I can't see them being used for that purpose - not with the way they transform the planet. If they weren't concerned with the current surface of the planet, it would make more sense to just nuke the location to get rid of it all for a complete new start.
If they just want the locals gone, it'd make more sense to engineer a plague or virus or etc.
If the Aliens were being used that way, then they would perhaps need something that was an antidote to the alien, and that is something that Ridley talked about before he made Prometheus
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 14, 2014, 08:38:53 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 11, 2014, 05:22:39 PM
I prefer to believe that the engineers used the aliens to depopulate inhabited worlds of potentially dangerous natives and pave the way for colonization.
I can't see them being used for that purpose - not with the way they transform the planet. If they weren't concerned with the current surface of the planet, it would make more sense to just nuke the location to get rid of it all for a complete new start.
If they just want the locals gone, it'd make more sense to engineer a plague or virus or etc.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 14, 2014, 08:38:53 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 11, 2014, 05:22:39 PM
I prefer to believe that the engineers used the aliens to depopulate inhabited worlds of potentially dangerous natives and pave the way for colonization.
I can't see them being used for that purpose - not with the way they transform the planet.
Aside from their nests, how do the aliens transform planets?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 14, 2014, 08:38:53 AMIf they weren't concerned with the current surface of the planet, it would make more sense to just nuke the location to get rid of it all for a complete new start.
If they just want the locals gone, it'd make more sense to engineer a plague or virus or etc.
Pretty sure I already addressed that. The aliens would be more narrowly focused toward depopulating a planet of large animal life without the added danger of introducing an unpredictable pathogen into the mix.
Would an alien right an upside down turtle?
Don't ask them about their mother.
SM can breathe okay so long as no one unplugs him.
I like a man who stays put.
Does this mean we've reached a consensus on the aliens' origins?
Quote from: Kelgaard on Nov 12, 2014, 11:58:17 PM
QuoteToo anthropocentric for my tastes
*looks up anthropocentric*
It's no worse than finding out the Space Jockeys are human.
I disagree. Even though the engineers are human, the aliens themselves should be capable of breeding within non-human species to maximize their effectiveness as bioweapons (within the scope that I already expounded upon).
Besides, we now know that they can impregnate dogs and/or oxen. If the engineers had unleashed the aliens on ancient Earth with the sole intention of wiping out primitive humanity, virtually every other animal species larger than rodents would have been exterminated as well.
Maybe the engineers had a trick up their sleeve to kill off the alien population once their purpose was fulfilled.
Ridley Scott: If you wanted a planet, you would seed the eggs onto the surface and leave it alone as the planet's population is overrun by aliens. If you've got the antidote in there, you kill the aliens and you've got the planet, it's like bacteriological warfare. ( Empire March 2011, p80. (Told to Empire back in 2005 but not published )
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 14, 2014, 08:38:53 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 11, 2014, 05:22:39 PM
I prefer to believe that the engineers used the aliens to depopulate inhabited worlds of potentially dangerous natives and pave the way for colonization.
I can't see them being used for that purpose - not with the way they transform the planet. If they weren't concerned with the current surface of the planet, it would make more sense to just nuke the location to get rid of it all for a complete new start.
If they just want the locals gone, it'd make more sense to engineer a plague or virus or etc.
The aliens are a free terraformer for the Jockeys. BOOM.
the xenomorphs where used as a weapon for war but they turned on the humans and started killing the humans and facehugging them.
Which "humans"?
The xenomorph origin could be a mixture of natural and bioengineered. They could be a weaponised breed of something from a distant life-bearing world.
Quote from: irn on Nov 25, 2014, 01:01:01 AM
The xenomorph origin could be a mixture of natural and bioengineered. They could be a weaponised breed of something from a distant life-bearing world.
I tend to imagine them as the civilisation that Dan O'Bannon imagined for his script, but enslaved and bio-engineered into the war weapon that Ridley imagined
Let's not forget that there is an implied religious/symbolic reverence for Xenos by the Engineers in Prometheus (example, murals). Perhaps the Xenos are seen more as "world purifyers" that do exterminate the native populations but are not used so much for high efficiency as for something deeper and possibly ceremonial.
The Engineers giveth and the Xenomorphs taketh away?
Quote from: wmmvrrvrrmm on Nov 26, 2014, 01:27:28 PM
Quote from: irn on Nov 25, 2014, 01:01:01 AM
The xenomorph origin could be a mixture of natural and bioengineered. They could be a weaponised breed of something from a distant life-bearing world.
I tend to imagine them as the civilisation that Dan O'Bannon imagined for his script, but enslaved and bio-engineered into the war weapon that Ridley imagined
Yeah I liked that idea too. It keeps away from the "space-velociraptors" they seem to have become.
I just have trouble with the image of a penis-head reading a book.
It's the main reason I've never liked O'Bannon's original concept for the creature. I'm glad it was made more ambiguous in the first film.
Quote from: irn on Nov 28, 2014, 01:15:22 PM
Quote from: wmmvrrvrrmm on Nov 26, 2014, 01:27:28 PM
Quote from: irn on Nov 25, 2014, 01:01:01 AM
The xenomorph origin could be a mixture of natural and bioengineered. They could be a weaponised breed of something from a distant life-bearing world.
I tend to imagine them as the civilisation that Dan O'Bannon imagined for his script, but enslaved and bio-engineered into the war weapon that Ridley imagined
Yeah I liked that idea too. It keeps away from the "space-velociraptors" they seem to have become.
So, are any of you implying that the Xeno from Alien 1979 is the product of Engineers infusing the fleshier Deacon type with biomechanical parts? Just need clarification with what I highlighted in bold.
Quote from: orchidal on Nov 28, 2014, 02:10:31 PM
Quote from: irn on Nov 25, 2014, 01:01:01 AM
The xenomorph origin could be a mixture of natural and bioengineered. They could be a weaponised breed of something from a distant life-bearing world.
So, are any of you implying that the Xeno from Alien 1979 is the product of Engineers infusing the fleshier Deacon type with biomechanical parts? Just need clarification with what I highlighted in bold.
I prefer to think of them as something that the
Space Jockeys made from an ancient, long, long, long dead civilisation. I consider the Engineers and Deacon to be something seperate and more recent that also derived from something meddling with Space Jockey artifacts.
Quote from: irn on Nov 25, 2014, 01:01:01 AM
The xenomorph origin could be a mixture of natural and bioengineered. They could be a weaponised breed of something from a distant life-bearing world.
I like this idea as long as we never get to know who, or what, "bioengineered"/altered them originally. I like my Aliens primordial, ancient and beyond known space and time.
I like the idea of the Alien being an ancient race from long ago that came from the darkest corner of space. The Space Jockeys which I accept are the same as the engineers, found the Alien and taking interest in it decided to use it as a biological weapon. They took its DNA and made a more efficient weapon for wiping out planets which is the black goo. The only thing is I think the creators of Prometheus looked at the Alien as a product of the Black goo rather than the source, which is a shame when so much more mythology can be done with it being the basis for the the creation of the goo.
Quote from: Queen7 on Nov 28, 2014, 07:53:03 PM
I like the idea of the Alien being an ancient race from long ago that came from the darkest corner of space. The Space Jockeys which I accept are the same as the engineers, found the Alien and taking interest in it decided to use it as a biological weapon. They took its DNA and made a more efficient weapon for wiping out planets which is the black goo. The only thing is I think the creators of Prometheus looked at the Alien as a product of the Black goo rather than the source, which is a shame when so much more mythology can be done with it being the basis for the the creation of the goo.
Those are my thoughts too. I wish those details above were more directly prevalent in and the main focus of Prometheus.
Definitely hope that Aliens are the source to black goo rather than the other way around. Or maybe the black goo is a synthesized/artificial/manufactured version of Alien (xenomorph) essence? No matter what, the Alien should remain an enigma and even more so it's origins. If it's one of the first complex life forms in the universe, that is still around, and has encountered countless intelligent - now gone - life forms between eons of dormancy on desolate worlds, then is it even possible to track its origin? It's the ultimate survivor, fully adapted to the harshness and emptiness of space. It is the "perfect organism" since it is perfect for how the universe is - hostile, indifferent, endless, unpredictable, infinite, extreme and unforgiving. It thrives where other organisms struggle, suffer or die. No remorse. Endless patience.
It really sucks that the makers are more than likely to just go with the "Alien evolved from the Goo" theory, however they did say they are moving away from the Alien even more in the sequal which leaves what was established in prometheus be, and leaves it a mystery. It being a mystery is better than them explaining the origins which would Ruin the mystery all togeather, so I'm content with it being a mystery unless they choose to take a better route.
I've always thought that the black goo may be some kind of evolution accelerator and the Xenomorph is the absolute final/perfect organism in the evolution of humans. Its an engineered product used to shortcut what we'll eventually evolve into someday and its just kind of creepy to look at one and think that's what we'll look like in several million years. No fear, no conscious, predatory, etc. Just like Ash said . . . "the perfect organism".
Quote from: nostromo mechanic on Nov 29, 2014, 04:33:27 AM
I've always thought that the black goo may be some kind of evolution accelerator and the Xenomorph is the absolute final/perfect organism in the evolution of humans. Its an engineered product used to shortcut what we'll eventually evolve into someday and its just kind of creepy to look at one and think that's what we'll look like in several million years. No fear, no conscious, predatory, etc. Just like Ash said . . . "the perfect organism".
My bolds.
I get what you're saying but 'accelerating' and 'shortcuts' make no sense in evolution. That's not how evolution works. It would be more like they (Space Jockeys/Engineers/whoever) had an idea what they
want the final product to be like so it changed it in a set direction. Basically taking away evolution all together and deliberately modifying life generation to generation.
well, I suppose the next thing that we're going to have to add to this accelerator business must be that the black goo must predict evolution like a computer and take the life form in that direction.
Well, I assumed in Prometheus that there was something that was supposed to come through as an eventual outcome, the Deacon, and it took transference through about three humanoid life forms to unlock the DNA of the final creature.
Which just seems so amazingly convoluted.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 02, 2014, 06:46:43 PM
Which just seems so amazingly convoluted.
I doubt it was intricately thought out.
It's probably my biggest bug-bear with the film.
I don't think that Prometheus really gives much to grab hold of or much of a solid ground to stand and talk about any theories one might have , but certainly Ridley has been able to talk to top scientists over time about the latest scientific theories and expectations the technology of the future and I think that what he was being told during the Alien production about how after a future technological explosion, predictive technology would be replacing the actual need for space flight in the future , that was mind bending enough. So quantum computing might turn into something very realistic.
So I'd assume it might be quantum physics, holographic universe and conspiracy fears about what's out to destroy the world with recombinant viruses all the way now, and I can see how that might be difficult for a good many people to play with
They where made by space jockeys to protect them from humans who enter to their home the xenomorphs where slaves to the space jockeys and had it they started killing off space jockeys one by one until a space jockey was facehugged and then before he was chestbursted he froze his self and was chestbursted afterwards.
Quote from: Doktor_Wunderbar on Nov 09, 2014, 11:29:47 PM
2. The Engineers found the xenomorphs, whose unique and essentially impossible biology became the foundation for the Engineers' technology ("new alloys, new vaccines," to echo Gediman). Their ability to borrow the genetic characteristics of their hosts became the basis for the Engineers' black liquid, which manipulates DNA and which can apparently transfer Engineer DNA to lower lifeforms. Their structural biology became the basis for Engineer architecture and shipbuilding, explaining the Gigeresque designs of Engineer construction. The mural in the urn room was an expression of reverence for the creature which gave them their technology, and the Deacon was either a product of the re-emergence of xenomorph traits following serial black liquid contamination events, or a product of xenomorph DNA in the "weaponized" black oil on LV-223, as opposed to the terraforming/species building black oil used in the opening sequence.
Personally, I prefer the second option. As others have mentioned, it makes the xenomorph seem much more eldritch - it predates the Engineers, who are already billions of years old, and it is a product of the cold, unfeeling processes of the universe itself rather than a product of mere tinkering. It also gives a bit more meaning to the title of the latest film. The titan Prometheus gave man fire, which is both incredibly useful and incredibly destructive. Hypothesis 2 would have the Engineers finding the xenomorph an incredibly useful gift from the cosmos, but the Jockey on LV-426 would have found it incredibly destructive as well (and at least until the next film comes out, I like to imagine that the entire species learned the same thing).
Man, before I saw your post, I've been thinking the same thing over the last few days. In my little origin theory, the Engineers did infact discover the Xenomorphs among their travels. They became impressed and enamored with them, to point of considering them Gods, which might explain the mural seen in Prometheus. Through the constant fascination, the Engineers try and duplicate what nature has done, perfection. But they cotinually fail, or get knockoffs such as the Deacon. Anyway, that was my little dive into Xenomoroh origins. Cool to see I wasn't the only exploring this option.
That said, option 2 is perfect to me. I like the idea of Xenomorphs being natural creatures.
Thanks for the feedback. But beyond even the idea that they are natural, I like to think of them as a force that no one can control - not even the "gods" who made us.
It sort of echoes Alien and Aliens. They found this thing. It promised them wonders. They tried to control it. It killed them.
Then we found it in one of their long-dead ships...
Ive seen a few different ideas that i like a lot. I like ot think of them as just a natural occurring creature, primordial and deadly.
Ive had the same thought that Aliens are a final step of evolution and the urns are basic dna
Quote from: Doktor_Wunderbar on Dec 16, 2014, 03:53:25 AM
Thanks for the feedback. But beyond even the idea that they are natural, I like to think of them as a force that no one can control - not even the "gods" who made us.
It sort of echoes Alien and Aliens. They found this thing. It promised them wonders. They tried to control it. It killed them.
Then we found it in one of their long-dead ships...
It does seem a very good way to look at them. I might even say, it's possibly the best.
They're supposed to be serpents of the Devil, from the Bible.
I still like to believe the aliens were creations. Its scarier to think something so deadly had to be envisioned and created to serve some purpose. What purpose is anyone's guess, but just the thought that it was felt necessary seems bizarre and quite evil.
I agree. I also love that idea that the Aliens are creations of some kind. I don't think it devalues the creature in any way, but opens up the wider universe in regards to their creators.
I'm torn. I like to imagine the ecosystem of the aliens' homeworld as being one in which they live in symbiosis with another native species. Perhaps some docile herbivore that has an orifice in its torso from which the aliens can emerge without killing it.
And it's only when they're removed from their native habitat that the aliens become dangerous and have no choice but to breed within hosts that are killed in the process.
I prefer a natural beast to something designed-mother nature's masterpiece.
Quote from: Elmazalman on Jan 05, 2015, 08:35:21 PM
I prefer a natural beast to something designed-mother nature's masterpiece.
That's what I like myself. Haven't some AVP comics in the past mentioned that they evolved naturally on a planet? Anyway, being natural always sat well with me. In the infinite vastness of space, life evolved to be...like the xenomorph. Perfect, unrelenting.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 05, 2015, 08:28:01 AM
I agree. I also love that idea that the Aliens are creations of some kind. I don't think it devalues the creature in any way, but opens up the wider universe in regards to their creators.
Yeah, I always had the impression they are final creation that went wrong. Super weapon that destroys everything that tries to use them.
I prefer natural. :P
I really like the idea they are a force of nature rather than a designed weapon(not that I dislike that idea either). I would prefer the goo is derived from them also.
I hope they just stop trying to explain it and give us a good, though provoking sci-fi in the next Prometheus.
Quote from: razeak on Jan 12, 2015, 02:09:33 AMI hope they just stop trying to explain it and give us a good, though provoking sci-fi in the next Prometheus.
:laugh: Did
Prometheus even attempt to explain anything?
Created.
The origin of the aliens isn't important to me. I have always seen the message/warning of their story to simple be "don't mess with nature"
by either creating something you can't control or trying to control something that can't be controlled.
Ultimately, I think I prefer the mystery of not knowing. It ads to their mystique.
No explanation is fine with me as well. After what happened in Mass Effect 3 with the Reapers, sometimes I'd rather have no explanation.
Discovered.
Quote from: The Shuriken on Jan 13, 2015, 10:30:10 PM
No explanation is fine with me as well. After what happened in Mass Effect 3 with the Reapers, sometimes I'd rather have no explanation.
We still don't know
what the f**k was going on with the Reapers...
Am I the only person who wasn't devastated by the ending to ME3?
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 14, 2015, 08:48:17 AM
Am I the only person who wasn't devastated by the ending to ME3?
Nope, I actually didn't mind anything about it other than the fact that my Shepard basically died, until after the ending.
Quote from: Gate on Jan 14, 2015, 03:00:16 AM
Quote from: The Shuriken on Jan 13, 2015, 10:30:10 PM
No explanation is fine with me as well. After what happened in Mass Effect 3 with the Reapers, sometimes I'd rather have no explanation.
We still don't know what the f**k was going on with the Reapers...
I do. :P
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Jan 14, 2015, 11:54:11 AM
Quote from: Gate on Jan 14, 2015, 03:00:16 AM
Quote from: The Shuriken on Jan 13, 2015, 10:30:10 PM
No explanation is fine with me as well. After what happened in Mass Effect 3 with the Reapers, sometimes I'd rather have no explanation.
We still don't know what the f**k was going on with the Reapers...
I do. :P
I'm glad you are a firm believer. I'm not.
Quote from: Gate on Jan 14, 2015, 02:34:00 PM
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Jan 14, 2015, 11:54:11 AM
Quote from: Gate on Jan 14, 2015, 03:00:16 AM
Quote from: The Shuriken on Jan 13, 2015, 10:30:10 PM
No explanation is fine with me as well. After what happened in Mass Effect 3 with the Reapers, sometimes I'd rather have no explanation.
We still don't know what the f**k was going on with the Reapers...
I do. :P
I'm glad you are a firm believer. I'm not.
Firm believer? Wtf do you mean?
I just figured it out logically- what do the leviathans want?
Indoctrination theory or GTFO.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jan 14, 2015, 08:56:46 PM
Indoctrination theory or GTFO.
Nope because as much as I loved the idea at one point, it doesn't work and isn't true.
What is true is that the Leviathans want to control other races- correct?
Synthesis is retroactively the worst ending (In game terms not just morally) because think about it- why is EVERYONE smiling- having undergone a change no logical person would accept? The answer is that Shepard isn't indoctrinated but everyone else is in this ending because they're neurally networked to the Leviathans- it makes perfect sense, it's (the real villains) what they wanted all along.
If you've played Citadel- you know also that Destroy, doesn't destroy EDI (and if not EDI, potentially the Geth.)
Pretty clear that the Catalyst (A servant to the Leviathans whom tries to mislead you.) is an A.I like creature, advanced but faulty- seeing problems where there are none to justify it, and it's creators actions.
So Control and Destroy, Refuse are viable options, which all end with the main problem being solved whilst Synthesis is the quote on quote "Reapers/Leviathans win ending." (Oh and being networked to every living creature they win FOREVER.)
It's the logical conclusion to the info Bioware gave us to me.
I think you should give it some more thought and get back to me with a different conclusion.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jan 14, 2015, 11:50:08 PM
I think you should give it some more thought and get back to me with a different conclusion.
Not going to happen, I've rethought this dozens of times since halfway through 2013- I have no reason to change my mind.
Eh, even after the explanations they gave, I still wasn't into it. I didn't want to known anything about Reaper origins. It's as Vigil said, "In then end, what does it matter? Your key to survival is to destroy them, not understand them". Would have been better to just ignore it says I.
Anyway, back to Xenomorph origins. I've been told...
Spoiler
That in the Fire and Stone stories, it is confirmed the Engineers creates the Xenomorphs. And I've also been told these stories are pretty much canon. Things have been discussed with Ridley Scott and what not. So I guess, there ya have it.
Destroy ending or nothing. That was the goal from the first game and that's what I chose.
I do like the idea of Xenos being genetically engineered specifically for mass genocide, but I think it makes them scarier to leave their origin questionable.
Its possible that Xenomorphs could be both natural and artificial, for example they could have started out as a natural but aggressive species before being introduced to the black liquid, its one theory anyway and I seen some say the same more or less.
As for Mass Effect 3, no problem with the endings here either, I agree that melding flesh with tech could be seen as a form of indoctrination since no one gets a choice and a new mindset could possibly develop. However, I would not mind the Leviathians winning, especially when compared to the Reapers since they give their subjects free will and peace so long as they get tributes now and again.