Egg on Sulaco

[SM]

Queens are born pregnant and sans eggsac.  Can't imagine they're going to stop 'laying' eggs when they no longer have an eggsac.

[Local Trouble]

EDiT:  It's just very general layman's appreciation of biology but I believe it's conceptually reasonable in the context of its use here.

That's why I appreciate it.  Too complicated and no one will understand it, but too simplified and no one will believe it. 

It's not as easy line to straddle, but you're doing well so far.

[Perfect-Organism]

Gotta give props to windebieste for the doing the heavy-lifting in the biology department here.  I never had the energy to get into so much detail, but that's the general idea behind the ooze theory I've been shilling for.

To me, I have no problems with one explanation over another really.  It's circumlocutious to the film as a whole.  Alien 3 is a great film for what it is.  It is one of my all-time favorite films.  But the premise of it still doesn't sit well with me, and I would have preferred a much different story to be told instead of Alien 3.  Perhaps I was spoiled by the Verheiden comics which came out shortly after the Aliens film.  They went full-tilt for a grand arc where our heroes go to the Alien home-world.  That was something that pushed my imagination and Alien 3 was a big let-down by comparison.  I know many people will not agree.  That is totally ok.

If I recall correctly, mammals without a baculum are significantly in the minority.  Of course, that means humans as well.   That 'boner' you got?  Aint nothin' compared to how most male mammals are endowed.  Even viagra for life just doesn't cut it.  lol.

Yes.  It really does come down to how 20th Century Fox perceives what will reward them the most without too much controversy.  I love this 'crazy-ass' fan base.   This is a fantastic Community to be a part of!   Fox should love it, too.  This fan base has everything.  It has so much to offer; and Fox would be wise to appreciate that.   

After all, it's their phallic headed monstrosity that brings all together.  lol.

EDiT:  It's just very general layman's appreciation of biology but I believe it's conceptually reasonable in the context of its use here.

EDiT again:   Marsupials are mammals.  As are monotremes.  You might want to look them up if you're not familiar with their specialised breeding characteristics. 

-Windebieste.

Yep.  Confirmed.  Marsupials are mammals.  My bad.   

[windebieste]

Queens are born pregnant and sans eggsac.  Can't imagine they're going to stop 'laying' eggs when they no longer have an eggsac.

Sounds more than reasonable to me. 

My best bet is the Queen is still 'ovulating' when it is brought aboard the Sulaco and made one or more, shall we say 'pre-larval', deposits on the Sulaco deck.  ...and if such hypothetical  'embryos' had the capacity for mobility then by the time Ripley has gotten around to 'mopping up the mess' (Let's face it, though, house work would have been a low priority, even after ensuring Newt's safety first) these pre-larval facehuggers would have had a chance to migrate to safer locales on board the ship, find a secure place, settling down and start extracting nutrients directly from their environment, in this case the ship's walls and bulkhead where it came to rest, permanently fixing itself  in place.

While we have seen that the facehugger uses acid for blood, there's no reason to believe why this corrosive bodily fluid can't be used to break down environmental materials such as the metals, plastics and other composites that the Sulaco is constructed from and then absorb the broken down materials as nutrients to create the egg itself.  Eventually a new egg containing a facehugger could develop in this way anywhere aboard the ship.

Anyway, this is my take on how the egg gets on board.  The Queen is much more versatile at reproduction than previously appreciated and the larval stage is mobile from a very early stage in its formation.  The egg sac is needed to protect and nourish the egg so larvae can be laid complete and in safely inside the 'leathery object' but the process isn't entirely necessary - but ensures greater survival rate of the eggs and their contents.  The larva is very vulnerable until it's fully formed facehugger and the egg provides an ideal place for growth.

With this in mind, there's no reason to limit the number of eggs aboard the Sulaco to just one.  There could be 2.  This would dovetail nicely with the pair of Aliens present in 'ALIEN 3'.  ...what if there's more eggs on board, though?  That's where it gets very, very interesting. In which case, returning to the abandoned Sulaco might yield some nasty surprises. 

That's where I'd take 'ALIEN 5'.  I'd have armed mercs of the Patna attempt to board and reclaim the ship - or at least trying to - until one of them gets face ganked.  Then taken back to the WY ship.  Then the fun starts...

APE suited WY personnel with pulse rifles accompanied by prisoner Morse in pitched battles with Xenomorphs aboard the Patna.  Yeah.  Bring it.

-Windebieste.

[Perfect-Organism]

But there is no more Sulaco for anyone to board.   Bringing in Morse means bringing in a character who is now 25 years older.  I thought you wanted all new characters.. 

[windebieste]

For a start, Morse isn't deceased.  By the time 'ALIEN 3' ends, he's the only person to have survived all the encounters with Aliens to date.   Besides, Morse isn't 25 years older - just the actor is.   He's also an interesting character that deserves expanding.

I think stringing the events together in quick succession for a sequel would make for much more immediately rewarding movie than placing the events 25 years later just to accommodate the older actor.  Make 'ALIEN' 5 dovetail right on the closing moments of 'ALIENS'.  Casting a British actor of similar age and mannerisms to what Danny Webb had at the time 'ALIEN 3' was made is the way to go.

Good casting is what's needed to make the character work - not excuses to bring back aging actors to reprise roles of deceased characters they haven't played in decades; and then shoe horn the story around them.  *Insert facepalm here.*  I'm completely against that.  That's just f*cked.  I'd be dead set against bringing back Danny Webb for the role.  His effort was an interpretation of the character but he doesn't have any rights to the character more than any other more appropriate actor - so I'd hire him for coaching the new actor as to how to portray Morse - and that's it. 

To make the story work, you'd hire someone else for the role.  No bringing back deceased characters.  No pandering to actors on the tail ends of their careers who are desperate to get back into the boots that they emptied long ago.  Screw that. 

Story first.  Characters second.  Casting to match.   No retcon needed. 

-Windebieste.

[HuDaFuK]

You seem pretty insistent that the egg was stuck to the ceiling and don't even seem open to the possibility that it was elsewhere.

When I say ceiling, I'm simply referring to the fact it was clearly stuck upside-down to something above. Ceiling, beam, underfloor, whatever.

And I never said you're idea didn't have merit, or even that it's not a good one. All I said was repeatedly quoting it doesn't make it true.

[windebieste]

The location of the egg in the ceiling is very easy to explain.  Too easy, actually, and it all comes down to space travel energy usage and conservation.

What's the first thing that happens when one of these spacecraft reaches its destination?  It automatically prepares itself for human occupancy.   Lights come on, monitors blink to life and systems generally fire up.  Up until someone is actually around to use them, all of these systems are in 'sleep' mode simply because there is no use for them to be active during a flight when the entire crew are in hypersleep for months on end.  Leaving all the lights burning and keeping monitors on serves no purpose when there's no one around.   As soon as the crew are awakened, these systems are automatically activated.  It's a sensible way to conserve not only energy, but prevent component failure as well.  It's good engineering when resources can sometimes require calculation to the last watt/pound/whatever.  Bottom line is, space craft can't afford to waste energy.

This would also apply to whatever artificial gravity systems are in use aboard the Nostromo/Sulaco.  There's no point in expending energy on keeping people upright on their feet when they're safely cocooned in a sleeping pod for months on end.  So the artificial gravity systems are also powered down. Let's just give an arbitrary value of power down to be in the range of 85-90% - just enough remains for stationery objects to stay where they are, permit friction to act upon them to keep them in place and allow their inertial frame of reference do the rest of the work - and substantially enough of a reduction to be energy conserving.   Just prior to everyone waking up, the artificial gravity is automatically raised to 100% along with the rest of the ship's systems.   Sounds about right.

The crew then do whatever it is they gotta do and all the systems are active to accommodate their activities, including artificial gravity.  Makes sense.

When the crew go to rest in their hypersleep beds again, everything powers down to conserve energy.  All monitors and lights are dimmed and other systems that no longer needed to be supervised by humans can be set into 'sleep' mode.  This goes for the artificial gravity systems as well - which conceivably could be very energy intensive.  Why have them on full when everyone's asleep?  Power them down and conserve energy. Makes that long sleep easier, too when less gravity is in effect.*

At a reduced gravity, say 15%, the mobile pre-larva is able to move about more freely when everyone is tucked away in beds.  It can attach itself to any surface under reduced gravity conditions.  It makes sense to locate itself as close to the hypersleep pods as possible.  How does it know to do this?  Well, let's just say there's a lot about Alien perception that's always been debatable.  Maybe Aliens are like sharks and can detect bioelectricity?  Who knows?

So anyway, the larva attaches itself to the ceiling because, well, there's simply less gravity and any surface is ideal.  The small organism attaches itself in place, sends out tendrils and starts to form an egg.  The use of its acidic bodily fluid dissolves  components of the ship it is attached to and it grows an outer covering.  Eventually it becomes a fully grown Alien egg, complete with an 8 legged facehugger within.   

Mind you, that 15% gravity is still in effect as the egg grows and as it increases in size, it eventually gets to a point where even that reduced artificial gravity exerts enough force on the mass of the egg, especially as it nears full size.  Eventually that 15% gravity is enough to dislodge the contents and force the egg to open.  The facehugger then quite literally falls out onto the floor without the need for anyone approaching it.

Well, what's it going to do, now?

Go looking for a host, of course.   You know the rest from here.  Especially if the Queen has dropped 2 (or more) proto-facehuggers on the Sulaco deck during its confrontation with Ripley. 

-Windebieste.

*notwithstanding the fact that long periods of low gravity do have adverse affects on human health.  No doubt WY have contractual clauses and disclaimers in place for that.  lol.

[Vermillion]

Queens are born pregnant and sans eggsac.  Can't imagine they're going to stop 'laying' eggs when they no longer have an eggsac.

So where from on its thin body did this queen, sans egg sack, lay this 2 by 3 foot egg?

Seems all eggs are full sized when layed. Like a chicken. Or an ant. Or bird.

[windebieste]

Except that Aliens are neither chickens, ants or birds. 

Dinosaur eggs for breakfast:

100% guaranteed, bona fide dinosaur eggs!  YUMMY!   

-Windebieste.

[Kurai]

Queens are born pregnant and sans eggsac.  Can't imagine they're going to stop 'laying' eggs when they no longer have an eggsac.

So where from on its thin body did this queen, sans egg sack, lay this 2 by 3 foot egg?

Seems all eggs are full sized when layed. Like a chicken. Or an ant. Or bird.

According to the novel Out of the Shadows they're around the size of Ripley's thumb whilst inside that slim Queen belleh.

[Kel G 426]

Reminds me of Gibson's script.  Wasn't there a tiny, spore-releasing egg in that script?

[Corporal Hicks]

The location of the egg in the ceiling is very easy to explain.  Too easy, actually, and it all comes down to space travel energy usage and conservation.

...

Quite possibly the simplest and yet best solution.

Reminds me of Gibson's script.  Wasn't there a tiny, spore-releasing egg in that script?

We sharen't talk about that first draft. Terrible ideas! I remember thinking the second draft was great though! It got rid of all those silly ideas iirc.

Personally I like the idea of the Queen just being able to squeeze one out before she had her scrap with Ripley.

[Perfect-Organism]

The location of the egg in the ceiling is very easy to explain.  Too easy, actually, and it all comes down to space travel energy usage and conservation.

What's the first thing that happens when one of these spacecraft reaches its destination?  It automatically prepares itself for human occupancy.   Lights come on, monitors blink to life and systems generally fire up.  Up until someone is actually around to use them, all of these systems are in 'sleep' mode simply because there is no use for them to be active during a flight when the entire crew are in hypersleep for months on end.  Leaving all the lights burning and keeping monitors on serves no purpose when there's no one around.   As soon as the crew are awakened, these systems are automatically activated.  It's a sensible way to conserve not only energy, but prevent component failure as well.  It's good engineering when resources can sometimes require calculation to the last watt/pound/whatever.  Bottom line is, space craft can't afford to waste energy.

This would also apply to whatever artificial gravity systems are in use aboard the Nostromo/Sulaco.  There's no point in expending energy on keeping people upright on their feet when they're safely cocooned in a sleeping pod for months on end.  So the artificial gravity systems are also powered down. Let's just give an arbitrary value of power down to be in the range of 85-90% - just enough remains for stationery objects to stay where they are, permit friction to act upon them to keep them in place and allow their inertial frame of reference do the rest of the work - and substantially enough of a reduction to be energy conserving.   Just prior to everyone waking up, the artificial gravity is automatically raised to 100% along with the rest of the ship's systems.   Sounds about right.

The crew then do whatever it is they gotta do and all the systems are active to accommodate their activities, including artificial gravity.  Makes sense.

When the crew go to rest in their hypersleep beds again, everything powers down to conserve energy.  All monitors and lights are dimmed and other systems that no longer needed to be supervised by humans can be set into 'sleep' mode.  This goes for the artificial gravity systems as well - which conceivably could be very energy intensive.  Why have them on full when everyone's asleep?  Power them down and conserve energy. Makes that long sleep easier, too when less gravity is in effect.*

At a reduced gravity, say 15%, the mobile pre-larva is able to move about more freely when everyone is tucked away in beds.  It can attach itself to any surface under reduced gravity conditions.  It makes sense to locate itself as close to the hypersleep pods as possible.  How does it know to do this?  Well, let's just say there's a lot about Alien perception that's always been debatable.  Maybe Aliens are like sharks and can detect bioelectricity?  Who knows?

So anyway, the larva attaches itself to the ceiling because, well, there's simply less gravity and any surface is ideal.  The small organism attaches itself in place, sends out tendrils and starts to form an egg.  The use of its acidic bodily fluid dissolves  components of the ship it is attached to and it grows an outer covering.  Eventually it becomes a fully grown Alien egg, complete with an 8 legged facehugger within.   

Mind you, that 15% gravity is still in effect as the egg grows and as it increases in size, it eventually gets to a point where even that reduced artificial gravity exerts enough force on the mass of the egg, especially as it nears full size.  Eventually that 15% gravity is enough to dislodge the contents and force the egg to open.  The facehugger then quite literally falls out onto the floor without the need for anyone approaching it.

Well, what's it going to do, now?

Go looking for a host, of course.   You know the rest from here.  Especially if the Queen has dropped 2 (or more) proto-facehuggers on the Sulaco deck during its confrontation with Ripley. 

-Windebieste.

*notwithstanding the fact that long periods of low gravity do have adverse affects on human health.  No doubt WY have contractual clauses and disclaimers in place for that.  lol.

Very good point about shutting off the gravity.  Well done sir.  I don't think I've heard that one before.

[Local Trouble]

While we have seen that the facehugger uses acid for blood, there's no reason to believe why this corrosive bodily fluid can't be used to break down environmental materials such as the metals, plastics and other composites that the Sulaco is constructed from and then absorb the broken down materials as nutrients to create the egg itself.  Eventually a new egg containing a facehugger could develop in this way anywhere aboard the ship.

Agreed.  I've been trying to sell that idea for a long time, though.  Hopefully you'll have better luck convincing people.

Given how acidic their blood is, I think they can eat and metabolize virtually anything.  Remember, they didn't appear to eat the dead hosts in Aliens.

I've long believed that their acidic blood also allows them to metabolize virtually any substance, including metal.  It would explain how they manage to grow so big without eating their prey.

Same would go for the eggs.

Even if the aliens aren't synthetic, their biology suggests that they can metabolize inorganic materials.