Egg on Sulaco

[SpaceMarines]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMkrk2MJYrg#

[SM]

The only theories that work are so mindbogglingly insane and insulting you don't want to think about them

How can they 'work' if they're insane and insulting?  Any theory that actually worked would be the exact opposite.

[CainsSon]

Simple. During and after the Nostromo's encounter in ALIEN there are those in the Company, who knew about the alien, lets call those people IN THE KNOW, because it is too valuable a thing to tell everyone who works for you.

This part I agree with, since through numerous threads and facts we already established it was an off the book thing made by one or few individuals

The information of how to locate and cofirm Alien life alone is priceless. So, after the Nostromo disappears, those IN THE KNOW, need a new plan. Who knows what it is or was, all we know is 57 years later, there is this 'Shake and bake' colony there....Terraforming. Who knows why. maybe those IN THE KNOW were setting them up slowly, maybe be not, but they are there and so is the Derelict... Point is, it is absurd to just imagine that the Comapny gave up and kept quiet about the Derelict.

Its not absurd at all. Once Nostromo dissapears, no suit wants to be prosecuted for conspiracy and dissapearance and possible deaths of an entire crew, nevermind trying to pass the quarantine and patent laws by acquiring aliens. People IN THE KNOW would stay low and pray no one ever ties all this to them, an illegal plan that went terribly wrong and an order planted which made clear the life of the crew didnt count

So she tells this guy Burke and other Company people who ARE NOT IN THE KNOW and it gets back to the Company. Or maybe they didnt find her by accident. Point is, those IN THE KNOW, know whats going on. Now obviously since the information alone is so valuable, people like BURKE are not IN THE KNOW.

Burke knows nothing and the movie made it clear. The people IN THE KNOW by that point are either dead or out of the office. Burke was the only one who gave at least some credibility to what Ripley was saying. Maybe not credibility, but decided to ask some colony hicks to check out the place where Ripley said the derelict was. He acted alone

Those IN THE KNOW were around. Maybe they were characters we saw, maybe they were one step ahead or behind...but they got that egg on that ship. Possibly after RIpley was already in hypersleep.

It makes no sense for someone to haunt Ripley and not care about the alien. Youre basically saying someone followed Sulaco and docked in the bay and planted the egg. Makes no sense whatsoever on many, many levels

First, Im not trying to make anyone feel stupid. I'm just maybe plagued by a realism that gives way to cynicism, especially when it concerns Capitalism. Thing is, Im really not the first to decifer that cynical representation of Capitalism as a big part of the Alien franchise. So maybe, I'm just seeing something logical to that cynicism that others less fixated on Capitalist corruption would easily ignore. Plus I admit that the way these things are implied in subtext is one of the most brilliant things about this series and is the one constant in the subtext throughout all 4 films,...

There must be some mis-communication. I'm not SAYING anything concrete. I'm not saying BURKE knew anything at all. I'm saying he didn't know. No one in ALIENS knew, at least, no one had too. It is absurd to think anyone but those who NEEDED to KNOW, EVER KNEW and that there was any paper trail or reason for them to need to wipe their hands of any of it. First off, they could just claim negligence, if it did come up. How could they have known what the Alien was gonna do to them? Second, they were contracted to investigate. Third, why would anyone put the crew expendable thing in print?! That would be next to retarded. It's like writing a letter detailing the way you are willing to kill the rest of your team if you lose a patent. So furthermore, I'm saying there likely was nothing for them to be responsible for since they would have to be retarded to create any paper trail to begin with and you've also overlooked my biggest point: Even if those who knew were gone, as in, no longer working for the Company or within it, the INFORMATION regarding the location of the DERELICT, JUST THE INFORMATION ALONE, and simply possessing that information alone, you are a made man. There is no way to tie any responsibility to those possessing it to the Special Order, if you are selling THE INFORMATION. That alone is next to priceless. Whoever knew, could and would obviously sell it, if the COMPANY wasn't interested. In fact, those who knew could simply quit their roles in the Company and start their own, using that information as means to attract an investor. This type of thing happens all the time. The individuals are NOT responsible for the actions of their respective companies. The CREW EXPENDIBLE part, the potential manslaughter charge cannot apply to those selling the information, regardless of laws. Plus no one would want any record of that information being sold, or risk losing their claim, and there would be no need for that kind of disclosure. So, the information itself, the fact that someone out there knows about the Derelict is all you need to know, to justify filling in blanks with any behind the scenes scenario.
To simplify that and just say "You're saying The Company got on board and planted the egg..." is silly, because those are specifics to something to which there are no available specifics apart from what is and isn't already known. So I'm not saying any specific thing happened, beyond the fact that since the information regarding the whereabouts of intelligent life was known by someone, that it is 99.9% harder to justify that information being null and void, than it is to justify saying SOMEONE was still after this, or at least sitting on the information for whatever reason.
As for RIPLEY, of course they would want to know if she was dead or lost in space, because she could spill the beans, so better of lost in space... Next she shows up and they bury it...Surely, just because those who knew were older and retired doesn't warrant saying that they don't have nieces and nephews in their old positions and have passed on info. That's a weak justification. Especially since THOSE WHO KNEW, may not even be telling anyone how or why this effects their decision making. Why should they?
So I'm saying, what makes no sense then, is that the DERELICT should be considered lost after the events in ALIEN. Thats all.
And the simple fact that midquels could easily be written surrounding the derelict, b/w ALIEN and ALIENS, without rendering ALIENS useless, is the proof of that. Furthermore, it is just frankly naive to think, anyone with this type of info, and no legal responsibility would not try and sell it. Shit maybe the need to be so hush, hush is what is taking so long. I dunno. Im not writing a movie I'm just illustrating the potential.
Do you mean to suggest that no one could write a logical midquel operating on this idea, without making ALIENS seem useless? Because it seems like whatever failure repeated attempts to gather the alien, there may have been, even if their weren't any, ALIENS could and should still start the same way.  Plus, the FINDING of RIPLEY in space, would also be a logical catalyst for any new paranoia from those who knew...

[Sharp Sticks]

How can they 'work' if they're insane and insulting?  Any theory that actually worked would be the exact opposite.

Then no theory works. Easy correction.

[RagingDragon]

Simple. During and after the Nostromo's encounter in ALIEN there are those in the Company, who knew about the alien, lets call those people IN THE KNOW, because it is too valuable a thing to tell everyone who works for you.

This part I agree with, since through numerous threads and facts we already established it was an off the book thing made by one or few individuals

The information of how to locate and cofirm Alien life alone is priceless. So, after the Nostromo disappears, those IN THE KNOW, need a new plan. Who knows what it is or was, all we know is 57 years later, there is this 'Shake and bake' colony there....Terraforming. Who knows why. maybe those IN THE KNOW were setting them up slowly, maybe be not, but they are there and so is the Derelict... Point is, it is absurd to just imagine that the Comapny gave up and kept quiet about the Derelict.

Its not absurd at all. Once Nostromo dissapears, no suit wants to be prosecuted for conspiracy and dissapearance and possible deaths of an entire crew, nevermind trying to pass the quarantine and patent laws by acquiring aliens. People IN THE KNOW would stay low and pray no one ever ties all this to them, an illegal plan that went terribly wrong and an order planted which made clear the life of the crew didnt count

So she tells this guy Burke and other Company people who ARE NOT IN THE KNOW and it gets back to the Company. Or maybe they didnt find her by accident. Point is, those IN THE KNOW, know whats going on. Now obviously since the information alone is so valuable, people like BURKE are not IN THE KNOW.

Burke knows nothing and the movie made it clear. The people IN THE KNOW by that point are either dead or out of the office. Burke was the only one who gave at least some credibility to what Ripley was saying. Maybe not credibility, but decided to ask some colony hicks to check out the place where Ripley said the derelict was. He acted alone

Those IN THE KNOW were around. Maybe they were characters we saw, maybe they were one step ahead or behind...but they got that egg on that ship. Possibly after RIpley was already in hypersleep.

It makes no sense for someone to haunt Ripley and not care about the alien. Youre basically saying someone followed Sulaco and docked in the bay and planted the egg. Makes no sense whatsoever on many, many levels

There must be some mis-communication. I'm not SAYING anything concrete. I'm not saying BURKE knew anything at all. I'm saying he didn't know. No one in ALIENS knew, at least, no one had too. It is absurd to think anyone but those who NEEDED to KNOW, EVER KNEW and that there was any paper trail or reason for them to need to wipe their hands of any of it. First off, they could just claim negligence, if it did come up. How could they have known what the Alien was gonna do to them? Second, they were contracted to investigate. Third, why would anyone put the crew expendable thing in print?! That would be next to retarded. It's like writing a letter detailing the way you are willing to kill the rest of your team if you lose a patent. So furthermore, I'm saying there likely was nothing for them to be responsible for since they would have to be retarded to create any paper trail to begin with and you've also overlooked my biggest point: Even if those who knew were gone, as in, no longer working for the Company or within it, the INFORMATION regarding the location of the DERELICT, JUST THE INFORMATION ALONE, and simply possessing that information alone, you are a made man. There is no way to tie any responsibility to those possessing it to the Special Order, if you are selling THE INFORMATION. That alone is next to priceless. Whoever knew, could and would obviously sell it, if the COMPANY wasn't interested. In fact, those who knew could simply quit their roles in the Company and start their own, using that information as means to attract an investor. This type of thing happens all the time. The individuals are NOT responsible for the actions of their respective companies. The CREW EXPENDIBLE part, the potential manslaughter charge cannot apply to those selling the information, regardless of laws. Plus no one would want any record of that information being sold, or risk losing their claim, and there would be no need for that kind of disclosure. So, the information itself, the fact that someone out there knows about the Derelict is all you need to know, to justify filling in blanks with any behind the scenes scenario.
To simplify that and just say "You're saying The Company got on board and planted the egg..." is silly, because those are specifics to something to which there are no available specifics apart from what is and isn't already known. So I'm not saying any specific thing happened, beyond the fact that since the information regarding the whereabouts of intelligent life was known by someone, that it is 99.9% harder to justify that information being null and void, than it is to justify saying SOMEONE was still after this, or at least sitting on the information for whatever reason.
As for RIPLEY, of course they would want to know if she was dead or lost in space, because she could spill the beans, so better of lost in space... Next she shows up and they bury it...Surely, just because those who knew were older and retired doesn't warrant saying that they don't have nieces and nephews in their old positions and have passed on info. That's a weak justification. Especially since THOSE WHO KNEW, may not even be telling anyone how or why this effects their decision making. Why should they?
So I'm saying, what makes no sense then, is that the DERELICT should be considered lost after the events in ALIEN. Thats all.
And the simple fact that midquels could easily be written surrounding the derelict, b/w ALIEN and ALIENS, without rendering ALIENS useless, is the proof of that. Furthermore, it is just frankly naive to think, anyone with this type of info, and no legal responsibility would not try and sell it. Shit maybe the need to be so hush, hush is what is taking so long. I dunno. Im not writing a movie I'm just illustrating the potential.
Do you mean to suggest that no one could write a logical midquel operating on this idea, without making ALIENS seem useless? Because it seems like whatever failure repeated attempts to gather the alien, there may have been, even if their weren't any, ALIENS could and should still start the same way.  Plus, the FINDING of RIPLEY in space, would also be a logical catalyst for any new paranoia from those who knew...

[SM]

How can they 'work' if they're insane and insulting?  Any theory that actually worked would be the exact opposite.

Then no theory works. Easy correction.

Not 100%.

[Sharp Sticks]

Fair enough.

[Space Sweeper]

Simple. During and after the Nostromo's encounter in ALIEN there are those in the Company, who knew about the alien, lets call those people IN THE KNOW, because it is too valuable a thing to tell everyone who works for you.

This part I agree with, since through numerous threads and facts we already established it was an off the book thing made by one or few individuals

The information of how to locate and cofirm Alien life alone is priceless. So, after the Nostromo disappears, those IN THE KNOW, need a new plan. Who knows what it is or was, all we know is 57 years later, there is this 'Shake and bake' colony there....Terraforming. Who knows why. maybe those IN THE KNOW were setting them up slowly, maybe be not, but they are there and so is the Derelict... Point is, it is absurd to just imagine that the Comapny gave up and kept quiet about the Derelict.

Its not absurd at all. Once Nostromo dissapears, no suit wants to be prosecuted for conspiracy and dissapearance and possible deaths of an entire crew, nevermind trying to pass the quarantine and patent laws by acquiring aliens. People IN THE KNOW would stay low and pray no one ever ties all this to them, an illegal plan that went terribly wrong and an order planted which made clear the life of the crew didnt count

So she tells this guy Burke and other Company people who ARE NOT IN THE KNOW and it gets back to the Company. Or maybe they didnt find her by accident. Point is, those IN THE KNOW, know whats going on. Now obviously since the information alone is so valuable, people like BURKE are not IN THE KNOW.

Burke knows nothing and the movie made it clear. The people IN THE KNOW by that point are either dead or out of the office. Burke was the only one who gave at least some credibility to what Ripley was saying. Maybe not credibility, but decided to ask some colony hicks to check out the place where Ripley said the derelict was. He acted alone

Those IN THE KNOW were around. Maybe they were characters we saw, maybe they were one step ahead or behind...but they got that egg on that ship. Possibly after RIpley was already in hypersleep.

It makes no sense for someone to haunt Ripley and not care about the alien. Youre basically saying someone followed Sulaco and docked in the bay and planted the egg. Makes no sense whatsoever on many, many levels

First, Im not trying to make anyone feel stupid. I'm just maybe plagued by a realism that gives way to cynicism, especially when it concerns Capitalism. Thing is, Im really not the first to decifer that cynical representation of Capitalism as a big part of the Alien franchise. So maybe, I'm just seeing something logical to that cynicism that others less fixated on Capitalist corruption would easily ignore. Plus I admit that the way these things are implied in subtext is one of the most brilliant things about this series and is the one constant in the subtext throughout all 4 films,...

There must be some mis-communication. I'm not SAYING anything concrete. I'm not saying BURKE knew anything at all. I'm saying he didn't know. No one in ALIENS knew, at least, no one had too. It is absurd to think anyone but those who NEEDED to KNOW, EVER KNEW and that there was any paper trail or reason for them to need to wipe their hands of any of it. First off, they could just claim negligence, if it did come up. How could they have known what the Alien was gonna do to them? Second, they were contracted to investigate. Third, why would anyone put the crew expendable thing in print?! That would be next to retarded. It's like writing a letter detailing the way you are willing to kill the rest of your team if you lose a patent. So furthermore, I'm saying there likely was nothing for them to be responsible for since they would have to be retarded to create any paper trail to begin with and you've also overlooked my biggest point: Even if those who knew were gone, as in, no longer working for the Company or within it, the INFORMATION regarding the location of the DERELICT, JUST THE INFORMATION ALONE, and simply possessing that information alone, you are a made man. There is no way to tie any responsibility to those possessing it to the Special Order, if you are selling THE INFORMATION. That alone is next to priceless. Whoever knew, could and would obviously sell it, if the COMPANY wasn't interested. In fact, those who knew could simply quit their roles in the Company and start their own, using that information as means to attract an investor. This type of thing happens all the time. The individuals are NOT responsible for the actions of their respective companies. The CREW EXPENDIBLE part, the potential manslaughter charge cannot apply to those selling the information, regardless of laws. Plus no one would want any record of that information being sold, or risk losing their claim, and there would be no need for that kind of disclosure. So, the information itself, the fact that someone out there knows about the Derelict is all you need to know, to justify filling in blanks with any behind the scenes scenario.
To simplify that and just say "You're saying The Company got on board and planted the egg..." is silly, because those are specifics to something to which there are no available specifics apart from what is and isn't already known. So I'm not saying any specific thing happened, beyond the fact that since the information regarding the whereabouts of intelligent life was known by someone, that it is 99.9% harder to justify that information being null and void, than it is to justify saying SOMEONE was still after this, or at least sitting on the information for whatever reason.
As for RIPLEY, of course they would want to know if she was dead or lost in space, because she could spill the beans, so better of lost in space... Next she shows up and they bury it...Surely, just because those who knew were older and retired doesn't warrant saying that they don't have nieces and nephews in their old positions and have passed on info. That's a weak justification. Especially since THOSE WHO KNEW, may not even be telling anyone how or why this effects their decision making. Why should they?
So I'm saying, what makes no sense then, is that the DERELICT should be considered lost after the events in ALIEN. Thats all.
And the simple fact that midquels could easily be written surrounding the derelict, b/w ALIEN and ALIENS, without rendering ALIENS useless, is the proof of that. Furthermore, it is just frankly naive to think, anyone with this type of info, and no legal responsibility would not try and sell it. Shit maybe the need to be so hush, hush is what is taking so long. I dunno. Im not writing a movie I'm just illustrating the potential.
Do you mean to suggest that no one could write a logical midquel operating on this idea, without making ALIENS seem useless? Because it seems like whatever failure repeated attempts to gather the alien, there may have been, even if their weren't any, ALIENS could and should still start the same way.  Plus, the FINDING of RIPLEY in space, would also be a logical catalyst for any new paranoia from those who knew...

Schiddy wall.

[Cap. Fitzgerald]

I can't even imagine reading that.
I get the feeling theres no pay off, might be a good argument but I'll never know.

[Space Sweeper]

There's no such thing as a good argument in a pointless topic. I mean, it's fun to check in here and see what cooky things some people actually believe the filmmakers intended (which in this case was nothing), but schiddy walls aren't very nice on the eyes.

[keylight-di]

There's no such thing as a good argument in a pointless topic. I mean, it's fun to check in here and see what cooky things some people actually believe the filmmakers intended (which in this case was nothing), but schiddy walls aren't very nice on the eyes.

Indeed. I'm second that... Funny thing this thread...

[Infected]

There never was an egg on the Sulaco that thing you see sticking and hanging on the wall is just there for that disgusting piece of movie they call Alien 3 

[Basher917]

There never was an egg on the Sulaco that thing you see sticking and hanging on the wall is just there for that disgusting piece of movie they call Alien 3 

alien3 wasn't that bad, it makes a point that the aliens are made for survival, and how the queen managed to bring/make an egg on the sulaco as a last second resort for the survival of the species

[CainsSon]

I can't even imagine reading that.
I get the feeling theres no pay off, might be a good argument but I'll never know.

Right; you'll never know.

[CainsSon]

There's no such thing as a good argument in a pointless topic. I mean, it's fun to check in here and see what cooky things some people actually believe the filmmakers intended (which in this case was nothing), but schiddy walls aren't very nice on the eyes.

I never said the filmakers intended that. I've simply said it's logical that the information didn't disappear, and that the proof lies in the potential for a midquel. If there was no possible way than you would all have a snap, reflex reason why a midquel to ALIEN and ALIENS that involves the further investigation of the derelict is impossible and that's just not the case. It couldn't be any more possible. Indeed, the Derelict has been altered in ALIENS since ALIEN, so there is something else, that can be built upon as evidence that something else may have occurred.

So lets just restate the question then. I don't mind. What reason is there to justify saying there cannot be a Derelict oriented Midquel between ALIEN and ALIENS? Furthermore, how can that potential story NOT POSSIBLY relate the events in ALIEN3?
The answer is simple: with a little imagination, they easily can.

Thats not the same as saying the filmakers intended you to realize that, it's just to say that they intended to continue the series without Ripley, and that is apparent by it's beginning. Also that is actually a fact. At first, they wanted A3 without Ripley and for her to return in 4, but the studio insisted on Ripley's return and she said kill me off so they figured they'd reverse it and continue without Ripley after 3...