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Films/TV => Alien Films => Topic started by: Darkness on Nov 01, 2006, 08:21:10 AM

Title: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Darkness on Nov 01, 2006, 08:21:10 AM
How do you think the egg got on the Sulaco at the start of Alien 3?

Did Bishop put it there or did the Queen manage to lay an emergency egg at the end of Aliens.

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Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Nov 05, 2006, 09:22:26 PM
I'm keen on the emergency Egg idea. That the Queen is capable of laying one Egg without her sack.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Mystic Lemons on Dec 10, 2006, 11:32:39 AM
The more I watch Aliens and Alien3, the more I think Bishop did it. He's a sneaky so-and-so.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Dec 10, 2006, 11:59:59 AM
If you listen to the end of the Aliens credits, you can hear the sound of a Face-Hugger. Random info for you.

I'm not sure I think it's Bishop. I mean, he wasn't Ash. He'd got all the new programming.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Mystic Lemons on Dec 10, 2006, 12:08:59 PM
Or has he?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Dec 10, 2006, 12:11:11 PM
I suppose Burke could have reprogrammed him...but does Burke actually have any technical know how? I wonder.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Mystic Lemons on Dec 10, 2006, 12:15:22 PM
I doubt Burke would have done it. But if the Company wants to program an android to get them the bio-weapon they desperately want, then the Company can.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Dec 10, 2006, 12:17:19 PM
But it never was the company in Aliens. No-one believed her. Only Burke. He personally sent the orders for them to find the Derelict.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Mystic Lemons on Dec 10, 2006, 12:24:26 PM
Heh, paid for the marines himself, did he?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Dec 10, 2006, 12:25:25 PM
Okay, you got me there :D
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RidgeTop on Dec 13, 2006, 10:07:54 PM
There had to be two eggs on the ship though, one for the facehugger that would infect the dog/ox, and another (queen facehugger) that would infect Ripley.  I don't really know what to make of it, its a pretty big plothole, just that I don't think it was the queen by the way Bishop said "It was with us the whole way"
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Dec 13, 2006, 10:11:18 PM
Screw the Super-Hugger theory, it's Super-Egg! A smaller egg which holds 2 Huggers. Now that's a bargain.  ;)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: maledoro on Dec 13, 2006, 10:33:31 PM
Or, there could be another egg that we hadn't seen...

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Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Dec 13, 2006, 10:37:54 PM
Simplicity! Gotta love it  ;D ;)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: maledoro on Dec 13, 2006, 10:43:37 PM
...or, maybe some facehuggers can deliver more than one embryo (like twins)? Remember, in Alien, the facehugger left Kane and had made it up to the ceiling of the infirmary. It may have been looking for another host and had died while waiting.

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Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Dec 13, 2006, 10:51:46 PM
But there's different cases of twins if we're going with that example. I assume you're implying the Hugger could carry fraternal twins?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: maledoro on Dec 13, 2006, 10:54:50 PM
Yeah. I doubt if they could deliberately split one embryo into two. The hugger could possibly pump one out, still feel horny, and go and look for another host to "express its urges" on.

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Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Dec 13, 2006, 11:04:47 PM
It could be possible
Quote from: maledoro on Dec 13, 2006, 10:54:50 PM
Yeah. I doubt if they could deliberately split one embryo into two.
We don't know strictly how it works. If it was as simply as just transfering the embryo into the host, it'd be possible to just cut the embryos from the Huggers rather than go through all the trouble of infecting people.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Darkness on Dec 14, 2006, 10:42:25 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 10, 2006, 11:59:59 AM
If you listen to the end of the Aliens credits, you can hear the sound of a Face-Hugger. Random info for you.

I've watched Aliens countless times and I have never once heard this thing in the credits.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Dec 14, 2006, 10:45:55 PM
Very end.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Mystic Lemons on Dec 14, 2006, 11:26:12 PM
Not on all versions, either. Though I think it's on most of the dvd's, probably.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Newsfop on Dec 15, 2006, 01:22:23 AM
We never do get to actually see the biology lecture on the life cycle of the alien species. I still think that the most interesting aspect is that the chest-burster takes on attributes of its host to be a more lethal hunter. I'm guessing the face-hugger doesn't know that it didn't land on an all-dog planet, which advantageously made it even more dangerous because any dog long-legged dog can outrun a human.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: frost on Dec 18, 2006, 12:05:40 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 14, 2006, 10:45:55 PM
Very end.
On the special edition only(video as well)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Stay Frosty on Jan 14, 2007, 08:49:24 PM
its not on most region 2 discs, its on the videos.

i guess burke told bishop too, or when ripley is in the quuens chamber bishop took the drop ship to the derilict to get one
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Meathead320 on Jan 14, 2007, 09:34:48 PM
Maybe the Queen was not the only alien to sneak aboard the craft? Perhaps an Adult alien just happened to grab an egg or two and follow the queen on board. 

The Queen has to leave her hive, and because she has the secondary set of smaller arms, she can grab two eggs to bring with her, and her bigger primary arms are then still freed up.

BUT During the scene where Ripley is being chased by the Queen, we can see her secondary hands are empty, so this does not hold. The other reason is that near the Queen it does not look like there were any more good eggs to grab any way. I think it is an optional use for the secondary arms, but because of the above this did not happen.

So where did the eggs/egg come from? Bishop? Queen? Another Adult alien that did not make its presence known?

Were there more than one facehugger, more than one egg, or a single egg with two huggers, or one egg with one hugger with two embryos?

I think it is one of the great mysteries of the Alien Saga.

It is like a Magician; if you explain your tricks it is no longer as interesting.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: maledoro on Jan 14, 2007, 10:35:47 PM
Or, maybe like insects (which Cameron had virtually made the aliens into), the queen laid the egg. Wouldn't that be something.

She had plenty of time in her flight in the dropship landing gear compartment. The egg was smaller, since it didn't have time to mature in an egg sac. It was upside-down probably due to her having to pop it out in an unnatural position.

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Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Meathead320 on Jan 14, 2007, 11:02:00 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Jan 14, 2007, 10:35:47 PM
Or, maybe like insects (which Cameron had virtually made the aliens into), the queen laid the egg. Wouldn't that be something.

She had plenty of time in her flight in the dropship landing gear compartment. The egg was smaller, since it didn't have time to mature in an egg sac. It was upside-down probably due to her having to pop it out in an unnatural position.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/maledoro/sa/emot-science.gif

That one makes the most sense to me.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: davebhamuk on Jan 17, 2007, 12:04:46 AM
The alien egg opening noise is on the end of both special edition included in the alien quadrilogy thats region 2.

I can buy the queen managing to pop a couple of eggs out. However I would have thought that the ship which could detect the aliens as witnessed in the scene in alien 3 where Ripley asks Bishop if an alien was onboard, would have been able to warn them that the eggs were also on board. I like the theory that Bishop did want the alien returned to earth, I mean why else spend the majority of your time dissecting the alien? he wouldnt have learned anything in that short space of time and he would have been much better suited to be sent in with the marines as a scout.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Meathead320 on Jan 17, 2007, 09:20:38 PM
Quote from: davebhamuk on Jan 17, 2007, 12:04:46 AM
The alien egg opening noise is on the end of both special edition included in the alien quadrilogy thats region 2.

I can buy the queen managing to pop a couple of eggs out. However I would have thought that the ship which could detect the aliens as witnessed in the scene in alien 3 where Ripley asks Bishop if an alien was onboard, would have been able to warn them that the eggs were also on board. I like the theory that Bishop did want the alien returned to earth, I mean why else spend the majority of your time dissecting the alien? he wouldnt have learned anything in that short space of time and he would have been much better suited to be sent in with the marines as a scout.

Unless, for some unknown reason the Sulaco was programmed NOT to warn them, even if it did detect the Alien there.

I smell a conspiracy!

Conspiracy in an Alien movie? ABSURD!
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: maledoro on Jan 17, 2007, 10:42:20 PM
Quote from: davebhamuk on Jan 17, 2007, 12:04:46 AM
However I would have thought that the ship which could detect the aliens as witnessed in the scene in alien 3 where Ripley asks Bishop if an alien was onboard, would have been able to warn them that the eggs were also on board.
For starters, the alien in question was the facehugger. All the ship knew was that there was something moving in that part of the ship. The computer didn't know what it was, so it just let the facehugger be.

Quote from: davebhamuk on Jan 17, 2007, 12:04:46 AM
I like the theory that Bishop did want the alien returned to earth, I mean why else spend the majority of your time dissecting the alien? he wouldnt have learned anything in that short space of time and he would have been much better suited to be sent in with the marines as a scout.
As much as we like to see Bishop as a bad guy, there isn't enough evidence to support this. Bishop didn't know that there was an alien [facehugger] onboard until Ripley had wired him to the EEV's black box. If Ripley had (rightfully) felt betrayed by Bishop, she would have taken the time to beat the shit out of what was left of him.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Redfield on Jan 17, 2007, 10:57:17 PM
yeah bishop wasnt a villain. he wouldnt have taken an egg for the derelict cause he has 2 follow orders. and he was just as scared of them as the rest.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: ArchangeL on Jan 18, 2007, 02:37:03 AM

Maybe the egg was placed there by the director of Alien3.

In the Ripley Vs Queen battle scene, when the queen extends her inner jaws, you can clearly see a grinning Mr. Fincher behind the battle
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: CPL HICKS on Jan 19, 2007, 01:00:33 PM
I just want to say Burke was a TOTAL ASSHOLE and got what he deserved... KILLED. :)
I do think Bishop did it, was'nt he coming out of the Sulaco when Ripley walked up, I'm not sure I may have to watch again here soon to check that out. :-\
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: AtR on Jan 19, 2007, 01:09:15 PM
It deffinately wasn't the Queen because she was hiding on the dropship and attacked bishop as soon as everybody(exept Hicks) got out. Bishop wouldn't have time to plant the egg, nor would of he managed to do that without Ripley notocing it. They all took off from Sulaco and all(who were left) got on the Sulaco.

It was just a random egg plant, not really thought on, just to make Alien3 happen.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Meathead320 on Jan 19, 2007, 07:20:25 PM
 I always thought the egg was in the landing leg section of the drop ship.

Hmmm.

The aliens may have a lot more hidden tricks that we do not give them credit for.

They have a knack for sneaking onto escape ships. A1 alien, A2 Queen.

They put eggs in places you would never expect. Sulaco or Dropship.

They come up with new abilities that seem to suit any situation just fine. Look at the A4 aliens swimming.

Spitting acid.

The A1 Alien making an egg.

We think we have figured out their limitations yet, perhaps we have not.

Could the Queen have a way of excreting a blob of gelatinous substance that would form an egg? This may be somewhat the stuff she excretes into her egg sack normally. Who would think that it can form an egg outside?

If this is possible, could this be done very fast, so she may have even put it/them under the steel grating while she was "chasing" newt?

That is the thing I see all over the boards; "the alines cude not du that cuz they would need bla bla bla, and wude dy otherwise, cuz thay are week."

Ok, that is a gross exaggeration, but I think they get underestimated a lot. Classic mistake of these humans involved with them in the films.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: CPL HICKS on Jan 20, 2007, 04:21:13 AM
Oh those movie makers are some tricky people, gotta keep your eye them. 8)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Eidotemit on Jan 21, 2007, 10:51:10 PM
I used to strongly defend that it was in fact some sort of 'emergency' egg laid by the queen. There are a few reasons for this, it seems to fit in nicely with the general survival instincts and characteristics of the species, also in A3 the unique 'queen' facehugger that the egg bore (which the egg itself was unique with the five petals rather than four)

However, the placement of the egg doesnt seem to be anywhere where the queen was, certainly not in the landing gear of the dropship. Also, the queen was never out of site while on the Sulaco (except when in the landing gear), so its highly unlikely that she somehow managed to lay this egg unnoticed.

This leaves Bishop. Bishop isn't like Ash, hes a better modle, but that doesnt mean he isnt suseptable to being controlled or bound by commands given to him by whomever. He had the time, was in the right place, and could be controled (I believe it may have been something along the lines of someone at WY patching in to him or programing him to not remember doing it so he could overide the rules about harming humans). I do believe the egg was a special egg with the queen facehugger for the purpose of keeping the species going or spreading, but I don't see enough evidence to support it was laid on the sulaco by the queen.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: maledoro on Jan 21, 2007, 11:18:18 PM
Quote from: Eidotemit on Jan 21, 2007, 10:51:10 PM
This leaves Bishop. Bishop isn't like Ash, hes a better modle, but that doesnt mean he isnt suseptable to being controlled or bound by commands given to him by whomever. He had the time, was in the right place, and could be controled (I believe it may have been something along the lines of someone at WY patching in to him or programing him to not remember doing it so he could overide the rules about harming humans). I do believe the egg was a special egg with the queen facehugger for the purpose of keeping the species going or spreading, but I don't see enough evidence to support it was laid on the sulaco by the queen.
But, if this had happened, it would have been shown. Besides, Cameron had always maintained that Bishop was an alright guy.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Eidotemit on Jan 22, 2007, 12:06:42 AM
remember though, when Aliens was filmed there was no plans for A3, and thus everything filmed was meant at face value. Then A3 came along and presented this question, and you have to derive how it happened based of the information you are provided with from the films.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: maledoro on Jan 22, 2007, 01:48:19 AM
Quote from: Eidotemit on Jan 22, 2007, 12:06:42 AM
remember though, when Aliens was filmed there was no plans for A3, and thus everything filmed was meant at face value. Then A3 came along and presented this question, and you have to derive how it happened based of the information you are provided with from the films.
That's really good, except that there was nothing that even hints at Bishop going through the motions of smuggling an egg onto the Sulaco's dropship.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: CPL HICKS on Jan 22, 2007, 03:42:15 AM
Like I said, those moviemakers are some tricky people. ;)
They'll do whatever it takes to keep it going ;D
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Eidotemit on Jan 22, 2007, 12:08:06 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Jan 22, 2007, 01:48:19 AM
That's really good, except that there was nothing that even hints at Bishop going through the motions of smuggling an egg onto the Sulaco's dropship.

Yeah, Im not saying its a cookie-cutter fit, but its the just the best explaination I see. Bishop could have left after Ripley went to get newt, droped the eg off and came back. Implausible? Very, and its a poor explaination. I believe that I've heard some better ways Bishop could have done it, but point is that from what I can see it is the only explaination that works, so far. Believe me, Im open to a different idea on hw it got there if a reasonable one could be explained.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: maledoro on Jan 22, 2007, 12:09:34 PM
Really?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: AtR on Jan 22, 2007, 12:11:05 PM
19 minutes until the explosion of the reactor, 40 (or so minutes) to fly from sulaco to LV426 surface. Bishop didn't leave after Ripley went after Newt.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Eidotemit on Jan 22, 2007, 12:37:08 PM
Like I said, im sure there were better stories of how he did it out there, and its hardly air tight.

An emergency egg theory makes so much more sense to me that the Bishop theory, but there just has to be a way to explain how it go tto where it is and why no one noticed it.

The egg clearly isnt in the dropship landing gear or in the dropship itself, which is the only place the Queen was before she showed herself on the Sulaco. Perhaps it is, in fact, in the dropships landing gear, but it certainly doesnt seem like it from whats shown. I'd love to hear a good reason for the emergency egg theory, because like I said I like it much better and it makes more sense to me.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: AtR on Jan 22, 2007, 12:45:42 PM
Face it guys, it was just randomly placed by movie directors so Alien 3 would make sense.( Continuation of the story).
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Eidotemit on Jan 22, 2007, 12:51:19 PM
yeah poor writting, and a little insulting to the viewer just assuming we wouldnt notice that it, you know, didnt really make sense.

Im still pullin for emergency egg, bishop theory the more I think about it doesnt really work well at all either, so Im goin with the one I like better
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: maledoro on Jan 22, 2007, 01:49:36 PM
I would imagine that when the queen lays an egg, it's not one of those 1 meter tall things that we see in the hives; it's more of a liquid that oozes out and forms itself into an ovoid.

The queen may have been in the process of making an egg when Ripley had paid her a visit. It may be that when the landing legs were opened on the deck of the Sulaco, that the queen may have dribbled some egg material onto the deck plating (remember, the plating had slots and grates) and it had formed on the underside of the plate. That would explain why the egg was smaller than the others we've seen.

We have no idea how close that plate was to the hypersleep tubes, so it's even possible that the facehugger may have crawled the length of the habitable parts of the ship to the sleep chambers.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: AtR on Jan 22, 2007, 04:11:46 PM
Sorry if my post insulted anybody, was just trying to give obvious facts :)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: maledoro on Jan 22, 2007, 05:56:26 PM
It's alright. I knew that there were some inconsistancies between Alien³ and Aliens, just as Cameron had admitted to ignoring some things in Alien when making his movie.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jan 23, 2007, 04:31:56 AM
QuoteThat would explain why the egg was smaller than the others we've seen.

Except without a point of reference we can only assume it's exactly the same size as the others we've seen.

There's two ways this could've happened:

1) She rescued it from the nursery and hid it between the spines on her back, then acided a hole in the landing gear well and hid it in the drop ship fuselage (note she did this AFTER the Smart Ass had docked which is why the ship systems didn't pick it up and the acid was still active just before Bishop got Bishkebabbed).

2) As above except she laid it en-route to the Sulaco.

Taking flight times into account, it can't have been secretly flown up to the Sulaco at any point.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: AtR on Jan 23, 2007, 10:56:06 AM
We'll never know... o.o
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jan 23, 2007, 10:18:26 PM
No but we can make informed guesses.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: AtR on Jan 24, 2007, 12:53:06 AM
Quote from: SM on Jan 23, 2007, 10:18:26 PM
No but we can make informed guesses.
And that's all that matters, right ? :D
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: DanG on Jan 25, 2007, 04:21:12 PM
Bishop did it.

'I had to give him another shot for the pain' ...conveniently incapacitating the only witness.

Bishop is W-Y property, and will do as he's instructed by his superiors. He's also the only member of the landing team that is under no threat from an alien egg, because he is a synthetic and therefore 'unimpregnable'. I don't think a facehugger is going to be tricked and waste itself on a machine. Otherwise they'd be jumping out of their eggs at any sound or movement, so I think it's safe to say they can sense when something organic and compatible is near.

Coming back for Ripley and Newt makes perfect sense too...there's an extremely high probability that at least one of them may have been impregnated, meaning he could very likely return to W-Y with both the chicken AND the egg.

It's also very possible that Bishop is not conciously aware of his orders (or ensuing actions arising from them), thus giving him the perfect cover. In short, he may have had no idea what he has done.

I think this is the reason a synthetic was sent along...they are incapable of questioning orders.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: maledoro on Jan 25, 2007, 04:41:05 PM
Quote from: DanG on Jan 25, 2007, 04:21:12 PM
Bishop is W-Y property, and will do as he's instructed by his superiors. I think this is the reason a synthetic was sent along...they are incapable of questioning orders.
There is nothing that shows that he is owned by the Company. Although he may have been made by the Company, he was most likely property of the USCM.

As for him being "sent along", he wasn't new to the Sulaco as he was asked to do the Knife Trick; something that he had done before for the team.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Eidotemit on Jan 25, 2007, 08:14:26 PM
Yeah, Bishop was USCM property and part of the team.

the bigger problem is he didn't have time to secure an egg, fly out to the sulaco, dock, drop it off where he did (which why would he do it upside down in some corner?) take off again, and get back to the power station.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jan 28, 2007, 10:57:22 AM
Bishop is listed as ECA in the script and the XO of the Sulaco in the novel.

Neither of which are Weyland Y.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Eidotemit on Jan 28, 2007, 01:47:38 PM
The only connection with WY he has is that he was made by them, which I suppose could give them the ability to overide some of his programing before the mission, but I highly doubt that happened.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jan 28, 2007, 09:53:14 PM
QuoteThe only connection with WY he has is that he was made by them

Which isn't confirmed either.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Cromartie on Mar 02, 2007, 11:07:07 AM
THE FACE HUGGERS WERE CRAWLING AROUND THE QUEENS BODY ALSO ONE HAD TO BE A PREATORIAN TO CREATE A QUEEN AND THEY ARE BLACK SO WUD BE HARDER TO SEE ON A QUEEN BUT CRAWLING AROUND HER BODY LIKE BABY SCORPIONS DO ON THEIR MOTHER!
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Meathead320 on Mar 02, 2007, 04:32:19 PM
zombie,

Please stop quoteing AVP: Extinction.

People come on here all the time trying to apply video game logic to the movies.

That video game is not accurate to the movies, and has "made up" castes.

No Praetorian class has been shown on film. It is just fan fiction, and video game stuff.

If you want to discuss that stuff these is a place in the forums for it here too.

The video game section.

AVP: extinction  does have its fans, I am one of them too;) but in the Alien movies there have been shown only two castes of Adults. Regular adult aliens, and the Queen. That is all.

I agree that facehuggers hitching a ride on a Queen would make perfect sense, but at the end of A2, all the eggs close to the Queen, or all that we could see, had been torched.

There did not seem to be any eggs close by the Queen could take with, or have the hugger hitch rides.

We also saw an EGG in either the Sulaco (or the dropship), in the beginning of A3.

Fans have been trying to come up with a logical reason as to how that egg got there.

I think the Queen put it there, and that she can still make at least one or even two eggs without needing her eggsack.

The Aliens have been shown to have a lot more tricks up their sleeves than we give them credit for, so it is good your thinking outside the box.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Cromartie on Mar 02, 2007, 05:42:27 PM
allright heres an idea!
the queen sensed danger and as a way to ensure the survival of the race had a drone or warrior sneak the egg aboard the dropship. the drone or warrior either was still aboard the sullaco or was sucked out of the airlock.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Mar 04, 2007, 11:36:57 PM
Pretty pissweak Alien not to do anything whatsoever to protect the Queen.  An Alien woulda nailed Ripley in half a second strapped into that loader.

Plus we woulda seen it getting sucked out.

QuoteThere did not seem to be any eggs close by the Queen could take with, or have the hugger hitch rides.

She was surrounded by eggs.  Very simple to take one.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Cromartie on Mar 05, 2007, 10:16:02 AM
well the queen would have had an egg on board both dropships as a way of proagating the species!
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Mar 05, 2007, 11:56:42 PM
Both dropships?  Then why did the Alien on the Bug Stomper kill the pilot?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Meathead320 on Mar 06, 2007, 12:21:48 AM
Quote from: SM on Mar 04, 2007, 11:36:57 PM
Pretty pissweak Alien not to do anything whatsoever to protect the Queen.  An Alien woulda nailed Ripley in half a second strapped into that loader.

Plus we woulda seen it getting sucked out.

QuoteThere did not seem to be any eggs close by the Queen could take with, or have the hugger hitch rides.

She was surrounded by eggs.  Very simple to take one.



She WAS surrounded by them. Then Ripley torched them. Did you see any decent ones left near the Queen Ripley missed? I could be wrong on this, but I thought Ripley ruined all of the eggs that were close to her and the Queen.

As far as another Adult Alien getting onboard, with the Queen, that IS thinking outside the box constructively.

Perhaps the Queen had instructed it to not interfere? The drone slinked off and hid the eggs and itself, while the Queen provided a distraction as well as trying to kill Ripley and Newt.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Mar 06, 2007, 12:49:06 AM
There were an awful lot of eggs in that room.  Very easy for the Queen to bag on on the way out.

As for an adult on board - nothing whatsoever to support it.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Meathead320 on Mar 06, 2007, 01:48:10 AM
Quote from: SM on Mar 06, 2007, 12:49:06 AM
There were an awful lot of eggs in that room.  Very easy for the Queen to bag on on the way out.

As for an adult on board - nothing whatsoever to support it.

Nothing else to support it, but absence of proof is not proof of innocence.

Personally I think it is farm more likely that the Queen just took a couple with her.

She is huge, and we never saw a good lighting shot of her entire body between the time she left the hive and when she lowered herself from the Dropship.

Personally I think the eggs never ever were on the Sulaco itself, but rather still in some part of the Dropship at the Begging of A3.

I am very familiar with the Queen design, and it is a little known fact that she does have an orifice, that looks a lot like a vagina between her legs.

Eggs may come out of it, and enter the eggsack where they mature, but it may also be a place where eggs are already forming, ready to plop out into the egg sack, that assists in speeding up the development of the facehugger.

I could imagine the Queen just laying two of them in the Dropship, or even just dumping a couple out under the floor grating plates while she was searching for Newt.

The eggs may not have been mature enough to hatched just then, as without the eggsack the eggs would have taken longer to mature.

Perhaps Bishop just did not see her do this. She may not have been visible to him the entire time she was chasing newt, as without his legs, when she got behind him, he may not have been able to turn around to watch her.

Newt would have been distracted with, well running from the Queen.

The Queen is still IMHO the most simple and likely candidate for the egg stasher.

I was just saying that it is not impossible the Queen may have been occompanied by an regular Adult.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Mar 06, 2007, 01:58:37 AM
QuoteNothing else to support it, but absence of proof is not proof of innocence.

Alright then - it was Gorman all along.  When no one was looking he MacGyvered a teleporter together and beamed some eggs up to the Sulaco.

J'accuse!!  ;D

When you start down the whole "absence of proof" road you can make anything up and hide behind that defence.  Basing theories on known facts is much more plausible.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SiL on Mar 06, 2007, 03:15:09 AM
Don't be silly - Burke hitched a ride on the Alien Queen's back, holding on to an egg. When the ship landed, he ran off and planted the egg, then died after he tripped and broke his back.

DUH.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Mar 06, 2007, 03:33:07 AM
The shifty c**t!
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Meathead320 on Mar 06, 2007, 05:42:33 AM
Maybe it was a Jocky who visited the Sulaco while every one else was on the LV-426.

OR maybe it was the PREDATORS! ;p
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Cromartie on Mar 06, 2007, 10:22:17 AM
or maybe hicks was impregnated after all!! and he birthed a queen!! he was impaled by a security support!! could be what happened!!
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Extroheal on Mar 25, 2007, 04:05:04 AM
Whenever there is a thread like this, someone always feels the need to say something stupid like "the director put the egg there". ::) Please restrain yourselves people. Some of us are trying to have a serious discussion here.

First I want to establish that there was probably only one egg. It's extremely unlikely that two eggs somehow got aboard. If there were two eggs then there must've been two facehuggers and Ripley should've found the remains of the facehugger that got her aboard the cryotube. I don't know why  people have so much trouble accepting a facehugger that can lay two embryos. The only facehugger we saw that laid only one embryo was the one that hot Kane. For all we know, facehuggers that lay two embryos are common. There must've been several in AVP to explain why there were more alines than hosts.

Whoever planted the egg on the Sulaco must've deliberately planted it upside down so that it would open by itself without the presence of a host. It's also obvious that it couldn't have been a human since the egg would've opened while the person was carrying it.

I don't think it could've been Bishop. Although he was created by a Weyland-Yutani guy, he works for the United States Colonial Marines. If he had a some hidden company programming that directed him to complete WY objectives in secret then why would he bother rescuing Ripley and Newt? He could've just said that everyone else died and brought the egg back to Earth himself. And why didn't he confess to Ripley in Alien 3 that he was the one who brought the egg aboard? He had nothing to lose. And he did not have the time to enter the hive, find an egg and then come back for Ripley. I don't think the aliens would've let him steal an egg. And if he did take an egg, how did he know it would contain a queen facehugger? Was it just luck?

The more obvious possibility is that the Queen is responsible. There are two ways this could've happened. Either she found an undamaged egg and carried it on her back or she has the ability to lay some kind of proto-egg without her egg sack. According to this theory, the basic egg is produced inside the queen's body and the egg sack adds extra layers of tissue to it to make it fully formed an ready to hatch when it comes out. The proto-egg would grow very slowly into a full egg, perhaps taking days or weeks. Or it may never become fully developed which would explain why the egg looks a bit smaller than a regular egg. Maybe the reason the egg opened is because it reached the end of its lifespan. However, these ideas only work if the egg was on the dropship. Since no one can prove otherwise we can assume it was on the dropship.

My favorite explanation is that a warrior alien got aboard the dropship with an egg while no one was looking. If the queen could do it then why not a warrior? The warrior's motivation would be simple. There used to be plenty of humans on our planet but now we've run out of them. Then that strange flying thing came and brought more humans. Maybe if I sneak aboard the flying thing with a queen-egg it will take me to a place where there are plenty more humans that can be used to propagate the species.

The most silly theory I've heard is that Hudson somehow escaped the hive and then somehow got aboard the dropship without anyone noticing before losing consciousness. When he woke up the dropship was back aboard the Sulaco and everyone was in hypersleep. He gave birth to a queen chestburster and the queen laid the eggs.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Mar 25, 2007, 04:07:48 AM
QuoteMy favorite explanation is that a warrior alien got aboard the dropship with an egg while no one was looking. If the queen could do it then why not a warrior?

Because, strange as it may sound, there are much simpler scenarios.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Cromartie on Mar 25, 2007, 11:16:38 AM
look maybe hicks did birth a queen and then she made a nest in the bowels of the sulaco then his chest was impailed!!!! clemens probably assumed thats what happened to him!
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: ZombieSlayer909 on Mar 28, 2007, 11:49:01 PM
I think that it was definantly an emergency egg. The queen is huge and would make perfect sense for her to spit one out with a queen facehugger.

But then there's Bishop. There are 3 signs that make him iffy.

"I cannot DIRECTLY harm another human being."

(Observing the facehugger). "Fascinating isn't it?"

In Alien 3, the real Bishop says "Think of all we could learn from it." This might be suggesting that the Bishop android had the same curiosity and interest in the alien race.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Mar 28, 2007, 11:56:24 PM
There's no evidence to blame Bishop this isn't full of holes.

And you took Bishop's line out of a greater context.  Quote the whole line.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SiL on Mar 29, 2007, 12:06:55 AM
Quote from: mcfarlane007 on Mar 28, 2007, 11:49:01 PM
"I cannot DIRECTLY harm another human being."

"I cannot harm, or by omission of action allow to come to harm, a human being."
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: ZombieSlayer909 on Mar 29, 2007, 12:08:17 AM
Ok whatever

If I'm posting I'm not going to open up my quadrilogy, pop it in, and go to the EXACT spot to type out the EXACT line ok? ::)

This is all of memory fair enough?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SiL on Mar 29, 2007, 12:11:11 AM
What I wrote was from memory, and I don't even like the movie ;)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: ZombieSlayer909 on Mar 29, 2007, 12:16:04 AM
a. That's good for you if you remember every line in a movie

b. WHY THE HELL DON'T YOU LIKE ALIENS??!!??!! WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!! :o
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Mar 29, 2007, 12:17:50 AM
If you want to quote a line to make a point, then make an effort to quote the whole line.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SiL on Mar 29, 2007, 12:24:41 AM
Quote from: mcfarlane007 on Mar 29, 2007, 12:16:04 AM
a. That's good for you if you remember every line in a movie

Don't. Just that pretty much every bit of dialogue in Aliens is a one-liner, so they're easy to remember.

Quoteb. WHY THE HELL DON'T YOU LIKE ALIENS??!!??!! WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!! :o

Thought it could've been handled better.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Newsfop on Mar 29, 2007, 03:18:36 AM
 ::) So about this egg thing . . . I think the queen put it there.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: frost on Apr 04, 2007, 10:03:40 AM
Quote from: Newsfop on Mar 29, 2007, 03:18:36 AM
::) So about this egg thing . . . I think the queen put it there.


Can't think of anyone else who could have!(laid it I mean)
Bishop would have had to have a tardis to get to the hive before ripley grab an egg get to the sulaco, plant the egg, get back to the dropship to rescue ripley and newt,then get ripped apart by the queen and pretend like nothing ever happened?!!??.........................I don't think so.........

As for not liking Aliens.....................................
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: scarab on Apr 19, 2007, 04:03:59 AM
Tell me what you think about this theory...Ripley saves Newt which required a long trip in an elevator to the basement. When Ripley arrived, she ran into several warrior drones protecting the hive. After killing these as well as quite a few eggs, Ripley begins to flee back to the Sulaco with the queen hot on her heels. Obviously the hive with any undamaged eggs was unprotected with the warrior drones dead and the queen chasing the girls right? We already know Bishop was ordered by Burke to transport 2 specimens back to earth for study. Isn't it coincidental that when Ripley and Newt reached the top of the platform of the atmospheric processor that Bishop was gone? Isn't it even stranger that when Bishop does arrive he comes from below the platform and from the depth that Ripley just came from? Why would he fly below the platform if it was unstable, given the possibility it could have fallen on the dropship unless he was stealing some eggs? PERFECT OPPORTUNITY?????? What do you think?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Apr 19, 2007, 06:03:19 AM
1) Where did he land?  He had to land at dock 7 because he couldn't land any lower what with the place falling apart.  So there's no where for him to land lower down in the AP Station.

2) By stealing the eggs he violates his core programming.  ie. He's placing Hicks in danger.

3) Say he was programmed to get around his core programming and his primary objective was to steal an egg - why violate that primary objective by waiting around to pick up Ripley and Newt?

No, Bishop says he can't harm or by omission of action allow to be harmed a human being.  And he spends the entire film doing just that, in spite of Ripley's hostility.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: scarab on Apr 19, 2007, 06:22:48 AM
Again my argument is this...why would Bishop dangerously fly underneath the platform and not above it where he could clearly see Ripley? Also, despite the fact that Bishop "SAID" he was wired to protect humans, he knowingly allowed 2 face huggers to survive at the company's orders. Given the situation, he knew that the colonists had been wiped out by these creatures yet he chose to let them live. It seems to me his primary objective was to ensure the survival of the xenomorph by any means necessary. This was not too far off from the first android Ash. Funny how an android is standard procedure anytime the company sends people into an area full of aliens.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SiL on Apr 19, 2007, 06:46:42 AM
Quotewhy would Bishop dangerously fly underneath the platform and not above it where he could clearly see Ripley?

Who said he didn't? Just because he rose up behind her doesn't mean he only went down.

At any rate, the egg in Alien 3 wasn't in the dropship, and there would be no time to fly to the Sulaco and back in the time it took Ripley to retrieve Newt.

Unless Bishop woke up while the others were asleep and dragged his ass to the dropship, retrieved the egg, dragged his ass back and managed to stick it to the ceiling, Bishop did not put the egg on the ship.

QuoteAlso, despite the fact that Bishop "SAID" he was wired to protect humans, he knowingly allowed 2 face huggers to survive at the company's orders.

Burke's orders, actually, and under the pretense that they would be used for further scientific study when back on Earth.

QuoteIt seems to me his primary objective was to ensure the survival of the xenomorph by any means necessary.

Hardly. Burke was the one trying to save the Aliens, not Bishop.

Burke was the one who ordered the huggers be kept alive and tried to get Ripley and Newt impregnated with them. For all we know Bishop may have terminated them, but he never got the opportunity because he had to go remote-pilot the dropship before he could complete his studies of the creatures.

Really, there's no evidence that Bishop was like Ash in any other way than him being a synthetic made by Weylan-Yutani.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Apr 19, 2007, 09:29:19 AM
Quotewhy would Bishop dangerously fly underneath the platform and not above it where he could clearly see Ripley?

What SiL said.  Once again he's flying around in an AP Station that it literally blowing itself to pieces around his ears.  There's be updrafts amd downdrafts all over the place.  Doubt a human could've done it.

QuoteAlso, despite the fact that Bishop "SAID" he was wired to protect humans, he knowingly allowed 2 face huggers to survive at the company's orders.

And again as SiL said - Burke ordered it.  Second law of robotics says he has to do what he's told by a human - and since the huggers haven't escaped stasis in the period between the colonists demise and the marines arrival, there's no reason they couldn't be safely transported to Earth and no violate the first law - but that's up to Burke and Ripley to work out.

Huggers in stasis does not equate to an unsecured egg.

QuoteIt seems to me his primary objective was to ensure the survival of the xenomorph by any means necessary.

Show me some actual evidence to that effect that doesn't rely on supposition and opinion.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Extroheal on Apr 19, 2007, 09:53:57 AM
We don't know what room the egg was in. It could've been on the dropship.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SiL on Apr 19, 2007, 09:59:11 AM
The dropship had three areas - The cockpit, the passage leading into it, and the main hold. The location of the egg looks completely dissimilar to any part of the dropship we see.

And seeing as A) The Alien takes up all of the door, wherein Alien 3 the place looks like an Alien could fit nicely and B) the corridor the egg is in looks rather long, we can rule out the dropship as the location of the egg.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Apr 19, 2007, 10:11:49 AM
I don't think you can rule the dropship out.  Not completely.  I've always maintained it's in the dropship superstructure - but that's unproveable.  Like every other 'egg on the Sulaco' theory
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Meathead320 on Apr 19, 2007, 06:10:30 PM
Quote from: SM on Apr 19, 2007, 10:11:49 AM
I don't think you can rule the dropship out.  Not completely.  I've always maintained it's in the dropship superstructure - but that's unproveable.  Like every other 'egg on the Sulaco' theory

I ALWAYS thought it was on the dropship myself.

We never saw the inside of the landing leg section in A2.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: crypto84 on Apr 27, 2007, 06:58:17 PM
A lot of fans have good ideas on how the egg got on the ship. Myabe the queen carried it on her back or something and left it in the dropship.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Its Game Time on Apr 28, 2007, 07:25:41 AM
I used to think it was Bishop who did it but, after watching Aliens over and over again, i dont think he did it. But if it was the queen, how could she have done it? She would have had to sneak it on the dropship but i didnt see her holding the egg when she came out of the elevator. They should have explained how it got there.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Apr 28, 2007, 10:36:15 AM
It's either stuck between the spines on her back or she laid it during the flight to the Sulaco.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Grid Alien on May 01, 2007, 04:45:22 PM
I think it was the queen

Grid Alien
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Uncanny Antman on May 02, 2007, 03:48:54 AM
It's funny that this debate rages all these years later.

And it will continue forever...because there is no answer.  Plain and simple.  Alien3 does not show exactly where the egg came from because even the filmmakers couldn't be bothered coming up with something.

It's not the dropship or the cargo bay, so the Queen is out.  Also, she seen was carrying no eggs, and she can't lay any new ones without her ovipositor.

And the egg is 'laid' upside down underneath a table or similar structure, which drops Bishop from the equation.


No answer.  Rest your weary head.  :)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on May 02, 2007, 04:41:40 AM
QuoteIt's not the dropship or the cargo bay, so the Queen is out.  Also, she seen was carrying no eggs, and she can't lay any new ones without her ovipositor.

This is all speculative.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: FACEBOX on May 02, 2007, 04:46:57 AM
 >:( FOX should release a whole hour & 1/2 movie, just to clarify this darn egg on Sulaco dilemma.

Hell... I can say, "the pixies did it", and no one will be able to disprove my theory.  ::)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Uncanny Antman on May 02, 2007, 05:31:36 AM
Quote from: SM on May 02, 2007, 04:41:40 AM
QuoteIt's not the dropship or the cargo bay, so the Queen is out.  Also, she seen was carrying no eggs, and she can't lay any new ones without her ovipositor.
This is all speculative.

  Not all.  The room that the egg is seen in is not, and cannot be the landing gear.  That much is impossible.  And the Queen is seen full figure after emerging from said bay, so if she was ever carrying an egg, it could only be in the landing gear.  So she can't have left an egg in some heretofore unseen white room.

Granted, Fincher ignored the look and layout of the Sulaco almost completely, but there's no way that room is the landing gear of the dropship.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SiL on May 02, 2007, 05:49:40 AM
Fincher didn't ignore anything - The opening shots were done without him.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on May 02, 2007, 05:55:34 AM
I remember Fincher saying something about wanting to the title sequence to be disjointed and 'dreamlike'.

QuoteThe room that the egg is seen in is not, and cannot be the landing gear.

Could be some other part of the dropship.  She acided a hole and stuck the egg in - hence the acid that lands near Bishop.

Though I do stress 'could'.

This too is speculative.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Its Game Time on May 02, 2007, 06:40:29 AM
I guess we will never know.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Extroheal on May 02, 2007, 09:06:55 AM
This is why I like the idea that the egg was planted by an alien warrior that came aboard the dropship like the Queen. A lot of people say the egg wasn't on the dropship. I don't know whether it was or it wasn't the but the warrior theory doesn't need the egg to be on the dropship.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Nukiemorph on May 02, 2007, 08:36:05 PM
We never saw the egg after the opening sequence...  So who says it was actually in the escape pod or any other part of the main ship?  Maybe the shot of the egg was actually a shot inside of the dropship.  The facehugger(s) crawled from there to their cryo-tubes.





My ideas as to the "plothole" of the facehugger laying two embryos are:

A.) A facehugger that holds a queen is stronger and/or holds a regular warrior alien along with the queen.  (We've never dealt with another queen embyro implantation, so there's nothing in the films to disprove this.)

B.) If a facehugger manages to latch onto another host before dying, it can sometimes lay another embryo.  As humans can sometimes have twins, facehuggers can sometimes be created with two embryos.  Or maybe facehuggers have a lot of embryos; they just die before they have time to implant them all.  Another twin-like idea was mentioned as well, saying one egg could possibly be made with two huggers by chance.

C.) It was simply lost in the transition from the assembly cut to the theatrical cut.  The assembly cut showed us two facehuggers, a regular one, and the newly-developed for this installment, "super facehugger".  (I think that's what it's called...)  So when the scene with the dead ox was cut from the film, so was the second facehugger.


I love the third film enough to not care, but I think people are a little too strict reguarding the rules of the lifecycle.  These are bizarre organisms that are different from any creature we know of.
(As you can see, I'm a personal beliver in using a little imagination to close plotholes as opposed to letting them ruin a film for me...)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Extroheal on May 03, 2007, 05:56:21 AM
My interpretation has always been that some facehuggers naturally have two embryos, regardless of whether one of them is a queen or not. There were more aliens that human hosts in AVP so this is effectively a fact. It always annoys me when people insist that there were eggs aboard the Sulaco because it gets harder to explain how two eggs got aboard and because these people seem to be deliberately ignoring AVP.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SiL on May 03, 2007, 06:44:58 AM
A) It was a mistake

and B) You'd be implying there could be multiple Aliens to a single host.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on May 03, 2007, 08:55:44 AM
I could kinda go for multiple births from a single host - I brought it up in an essay about Resurrection and Wren's "twelve" Aliens years ago.  However this isn't supported by onscreen evidence in Resurrection.  And there's possibly ways around the "too many Aliens" in AvP without resorting to multiple embryos in single host.  It's more unprecedented and unsupported speculation.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Grid Alien on May 03, 2007, 05:37:28 PM
I like the idea of a facehugger impreganating two hoasts

Grid Alien
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Extroheal on May 03, 2007, 10:43:34 PM
Quote from: SM on May 03, 2007, 08:55:44 AM
And there's possibly ways around the "too many Aliens" in AvP without resorting to multiple embryos in single host.
The only other explanation I can think of is that the Predators somehow missed some aliens in the 1904 hunt and when the rooms stopped shifting, they were stuck in the pyramid for 100 years. But this is much less plausible than the multiple embryos theory.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Nukiemorph on May 03, 2007, 11:49:06 PM
Quote from: Extroheal on May 03, 2007, 10:43:34 PM
Quote from: SM on May 03, 2007, 08:55:44 AM
And there's possibly ways around the "too many Aliens" in AvP without resorting to multiple embryos in single host.
The only other explanation I can think of is that the Predators somehow missed some aliens in the 1904 hunt and when the rooms stopped shifting, they were stuck in the pyramid for 100 years. But this is much less plausible than the multiple embryos theory.
It's not too hard to believe that they were trapped, considering the queen survived all those years in the ice.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Newsfop on May 03, 2007, 11:49:55 PM
When I think back to when I first saw the movie, I never gave any thought to how the mechanics of the cycle worked. The title sequence made me very uneasy because of the constant intercutting between Sulaco and dead of space. (I was 11 at the time.) I think that for the film, the need to show how the creature developed just wasn't that important. Alien covered it pretty well, and Aliens showed where the eggs could come from. The rest is up for each viewer to come up with on their own. I think that it could have either been multiple facehuggers or multiple embryos.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on May 04, 2007, 12:54:56 AM
Impregnation of dead bodies isn't entirely without precedent.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: gameoverman on May 06, 2007, 03:49:11 PM
Burke!  It was Burke.

That was his plan all along.  Ripley even figured it out, but she forgot to check the ship for any eggs.  Doh!

EDIT:  Ok, maybe not.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on May 07, 2007, 01:25:59 AM
He also transported a bunch of Aliens back in time to a temple in the early 21st century.

With Bishops help.


QuoteIt's not too hard to believe that they were trapped, considering the queen survived all those years in the ice.

The Queen had a life support system to take into consideration.  And why didn't the Aliens try to free her in the intervening century?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Extroheal on May 07, 2007, 09:31:09 AM
Maybe they became trapped in a small room when the pyramid stopped shifting and couldn't get to the queen. The main reason why this theory is unlikely is that it requires the Predators to be extremely careless. Then again, they didn't bother to check Scar's body...
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: echobbase79 on Jul 18, 2007, 12:59:44 AM
I was searching for a thread on this and couldn't find one. If there is one post and close this one.

Until then I was wondering if anyone has any idea where the hell the Alien egg came from in that film?

It was supposed to be a super facehugger and carried to embroyos. Actually, in the Extended Cut of the film the super facehugger is shown briefly when Frank and Murphy are hanging up Babe.

Any ideas?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jul 18, 2007, 01:09:15 AM
There will n doubt be an existing thread but it's been a while so...

1) The Queen rescued it from the hive during her escape and carried it up to the Sulaco.
2) She laid it en route to the Sulaco.

These are the two most viable options IMO.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: echobbase79 on Jul 18, 2007, 01:12:28 AM

that's what I figured. But I don't think the writers of Alien 3 really had any idea to be honest.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jul 18, 2007, 01:16:17 AM
They didn't.  I vaguely recall a comments from Giler or Hill or someone at the time that was along the lines of "The audience isn't supposed to ask that question".

That said, it's not hard to make a link.  The Queen was on the Sulaco; Queens lay eggs; an egg on the Sulaco isn't a stretch.  However that fact it was never adequately addressed was rather cheap and one of the many problems with Alien3.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: ShadowPred on Jul 18, 2007, 03:16:50 AM
Yeah, but I doubt anyone even questions this very often.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Private W Hudson on Mar 30, 2009, 02:22:09 AM
Gosh put the facts together bishop was messing about with the facehuggers while he was in the medlabs you didnt see him at all between the time the fighting was going on in the hives. He hesitated when spunkmyer said do you need anything else, Also he was late when he was gonna pick ripley up he stepped foward straight away when someone had to get a drop ship from the suloco on remote. In alien 3 when ripley plugged him back up he knew the alien was with them all the way (Or seeing his a android he knew that already) Alien 3 they wanted to get ripleys trust he didnt ask about hicks death or newts he werent botherd (Or he already knew like he said everything goes into the computer) and then he said "YOU MUST LET ME HAVE IT ITS AMAZING" and thats about it and i hope they didnt kill morse <3
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Mar 30, 2009, 03:01:28 AM
QuoteGosh put the facts together bishop was messing about with the facehuggers while he was in the medlabs you didnt see him at all between the time the fighting was going on in the hives.

That's not going to work.  Say he did sneak over to the AP station and steal an egg and take it back to the colony.  Then what?  He didn't take it with him to the landing field.  So that's out.

QuoteHe hesitated when spunkmyer said do you need anything else

Suspicious, yes.  Also a red herring.  Either way it doesn't support him smuggling anything.

QuoteAlso he was late when he was gonna pick ripley up he stepped foward straight away when someone had to get a drop ship from the suloco on remote.

He can't allow humans to come to harm and he was the only one qualified to remote pilot the dropship.  What else was he supposed to do?

As for the rest of your post - not seeing the relevance.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Awgustas on Apr 01, 2009, 06:08:24 PM
I think the queen layed an emergency egg.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Awgustas on Apr 01, 2009, 06:11:29 PM
Quote from: AdamJZ on Dec 13, 2006, 10:07:54 PM
There had to be two eggs on the ship though, one for the facehugger that would infect the dog/ox, and another (queen facehugger) that would infect Ripley.  I don't really know what to make of it, its a pretty big plothole, just that I don't think it was the queen by the way Bishop said "It was with us the whole way"
BTW, I think the queen facehugger can hold 2 embryos. 1st for the queen and the second for the queens host protection.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Alien³ on Apr 03, 2009, 10:54:56 AM
Quote from: Awgustas on Apr 01, 2009, 06:08:24 PM
I think the queen layed an emergency egg.

I with Awgustas.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: WarriorRidged on Mar 08, 2010, 02:09:39 PM
Sorry to pull this thread up again, but I just wanted to add that it will be interesting to see what the game "Aliens: Colonial Marines" comes up with to explain this.

Though I realise, games aren't strictly canon.  The game is about investigating the Sulaco, set after Alien 3.  We can be sure this plot point will be addressed.  If this game is extremely well written, we may well get a superbly crafted answer - something that makes sense, that none of us thought of - that we can all finally accept as canon.

The was Bishop II human or an android may also be addressed.  The beauty of it is, with it being a game we don't HAVE to accept either as canon.  The problem is with films is that we have to accept it as canon.

But with some of the INCREDIBLE writing you do get in games these days, I'm really looking forward to seeing what they come up with in regards to the "how did the egg get on the Sulaco" argument... a point that will surely be addressed.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Crainy on Mar 08, 2010, 02:42:35 PM
Well, i think this is how it happened: The alien queen produced an egg inside her, unfinished, like a slimy mess or something which would later evolve. While she was on the shuttle, she spit this slimy mess right onto the wall, where it evolved. I mean, why not? Alien can spit acid out of their bodies, why not queens eggs? The facehugger that got the dog just ran by and got onto the shuttle with the queen. Thats plausible and logic.

I mean, think about it: They landed in a HIVE of aliens. Of course something for onboard.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Alien³ on Mar 08, 2010, 02:49:01 PM
Aliens can't spit out eggs.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Crainy on Mar 08, 2010, 03:00:17 PM
Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 08, 2010, 02:49:01 PM
Aliens can't spit out eggs.

How can you know? Why shouldnt they?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Keg on Mar 08, 2010, 06:41:34 PM
Quote from: Makkaveli101 on Mar 08, 2010, 02:09:39 PM
Sorry to pull this thread up again, but I just wanted to add that it will be interesting to see what the game "Aliens: Colonial Marines" comes up with to explain this.

Though I realise, games aren't strictly canon.  The game is about investigating the Sulaco, set after Alien 3.  We can be sure this plot point will be addressed.  If this game is extremely well written, we may well get a superbly crafted answer - something that makes sense, that none of us thought of - that we can all finally accept as canon.

The was Bishop II human or an android may also be addressed.  The beauty of it is, with it being a game we don't HAVE to accept either as canon.  The problem is with films is that we have to accept it as canon.

But with some of the INCREDIBLE writing you do get in games these days, I'm really looking forward to seeing what they come up with in regards to the "how did the egg get on the Sulaco" argument... a point that will surely be addressed.

If A:CM does go down this route it could be fantastic. I was hoping AVP as going to do this when I heard it was set after Alien 3 and Lance Henriksen was to voice Bishop but instead it just threw further confusion into the mix so that game didnt provide an answer. And for people saying games are NEVER canon, just look at last years Ghostbusters. A perfect example of a canon videogame. It was like a fully fledged sequel with nothing to contradict or ruin what had come before it in the movies. If A:CM pulled of something similar it would be great.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: ShadowStalker on Mar 08, 2010, 09:45:24 PM
Well honestly have no idea how this egg got there, for they have been mentioned already lol Id rather have it a mystery!
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Jamal on Mar 13, 2010, 02:11:55 PM
No egg, no Alien3.

Thats your answer :)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Alien³ on Mar 14, 2010, 02:59:52 PM
Quote from: Crainy on Mar 08, 2010, 03:00:17 PM
Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 08, 2010, 02:49:01 PM
Aliens can't spit out eggs.

How can you know? Why shouldnt they?

Because then they wouldn't need a queen. 
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: ShadowPred on Mar 14, 2010, 03:59:15 PM
Hell, according to AvPR they don't even need one. So spitting out eggs isn't out of the question no matter how much I despise that idea, sooner or later we'll end up seeing that on screen.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Alien³ on Mar 14, 2010, 04:04:34 PM
The predalien did it in AVPR but it don't connect the AVP films to the alien series so this doesn't happen.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: 8thPassenger on Mar 15, 2010, 09:40:33 AM
The idea about that one magic "emergency egg" that the queen is able to produce without its ovipositor seems kinda far-fetched and unnecessary to me. If we believe wikipedia, an ovipositor is used  "...to transmit the egg, to prepare a place for it, and to place it properly." So the egg is still very much produced inside the queen's body, and the ovipositor is just kinda like a handy tool for mass-producing them.  :)

Even sillier is the idea of an alien warrior sneaking in the dropship with two eggs under it's arms.

The eggs were laid in the dropship landing gear bay, in my opinion. The reason it doesn't look like that in Alien3 is because of a thing called artistic liberty, exercised by Mr. Fincher.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Mus on Mar 15, 2010, 11:25:23 AM
Quote from: 8thPassenger on Mar 15, 2010, 09:40:33 AM
The idea about that one magic "emergency egg" that the queen is able to produce without its ovipositor seems kinda far-fetched and unnecessary to me. If we believe wikipedia, an ovipositor is used  "...to transmit the egg, to prepare a place for it, and to place it properly." So the egg is still very much produced inside the queen's body, and the ovipositor is just kinda like a handy tool for mass-producing them.  :)

So there could easily still be eggs inside the Queen after the ovipositor is detached. If we believe Wikipedia, "in some of the insects the organ is used merely to attach the egg to some surface", which essentially just makes it a tool for placing the eggs more accurately. However, removing the ovipositor wouldn't make it impossible to get the eggs out of the "womb" if you will, so the Queen could easily have laid the remaining egg or two inside the ship and placed them somewhere safe.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: 8thPassenger on Mar 15, 2010, 11:43:32 AM
Quote from: Mus on Mar 15, 2010, 11:25:23 AM
So there could easily still be eggs inside the Queen after the ovipositor is detached. If we believe Wikipedia, "in some of the insects the organ is used merely to attach the egg to some surface", which essentially just makes it a tool for placing the eggs more accurately. However, removing the ovipositor wouldn't make it impossible to get the eggs out of the "womb" if you will, so the Queen could easily have laid the remaining egg or two inside the ship and placed them somewhere safe.

That's exactly what I was trying to say.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Mus on Mar 15, 2010, 12:00:26 PM
I know, I was merely concuring or further clarifying or some such.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: 8thPassenger on Mar 15, 2010, 12:08:18 PM
Quote from: Mus on Mar 15, 2010, 12:00:26 PM
I know, I was merely concuring or further clarifying or some such.

Yeah, and it's a good thing you did, because you said it much better than I ever could. Clarifying = good.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Hyena on Mar 15, 2010, 04:19:52 PM
Isn't the ship meant to be hived? as suggested by Aliens: Colonial Marines DS?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Lie on Mar 15, 2010, 06:12:17 PM
Bishop put it just like bishop waited for the queen to emerge be for picking it up (Ripley and Newt just happen to get on the ship at the say time), and he tried to get Ripley killed by walking to where he knew it was. Your telling me that an synthetic who instead of learing how to fly can just download how to fly didn't notice something as heavy as the Queen on his ship. No way he knew it was there on all planes from now until doomsday they will have at least one panel telling how much weight your carrying.

Bishop is Evil.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Danger Close on Mar 15, 2010, 06:39:09 PM
I always thought the queen left it there, and I still do.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Proj2501 on Mar 15, 2010, 06:48:31 PM
This is the only way I can make sense of the Egg on the Sulaco.

The Queen wiggled her way into the Dropship. As it makes it's way back onto the Sulaco, the Queen lay's a Queen Egg. I always thought she stashed it in the cavity of the Dropship (altho the picture suggests otherwise).

While everyone is sleeping, the Queen Facehugger emerges. Seeks out the nearest life form, Newt. Now Newt's cryo-tube is flooded upon impact on Fury.

NOW THE FOLLOWING IS DEPICTED IN THE ALIEN 3 COMIC (SEE FOR YOURSELF)

The underdeveloped Queen embryo climbs out of Newt's body and crawls into Ripley's mouth. This I can buy, in all honesty.

It makes sense that the Queen Facehuggers can contain two embroys: A Queen and a Drone. A Drone is necessary to protect the Queen in her vulnerable suspended state and also to bring back hosts for the newly laid eggs. Like people have said, it was chance that the Queen Facehugger grabbed a dog.

How anyone can blame Bishop I do not get at all.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Lie on Mar 15, 2010, 07:06:14 PM
Quote from: Proj2501 on Mar 15, 2010, 06:48:31 PM
This is the only way I can make sense of the Egg on the Sulaco.

The Queen wiggled her way into the Dropship. As it makes it's way back onto the Sulaco, the Queen lay's a Queen Egg. I always thought she stashed it in the cavity of the Dropship (altho the picture suggests otherwise).

While everyone is sleeping, the Queen Facehugger emerges. Seeks out the nearest life form, Newt. Now Newt's cryo-tube is flooded upon impact on Fury.

NOW THE FOLLOWING IS DEPICTED IN THE ALIEN 3 COMIC (SEE FOR YOURSELF)

The underdeveloped Queen embryo climbs out of Newt's body and crawls into Ripley's mouth. This I can buy, in all honesty.

It makes sense that the Queen Facehuggers can contain two embroys: A Queen and a Drone. A Drone is necessary to protect the Queen in her vulnerable suspended state and also to bring back hosts for the newly laid eggs. Like people have said, it was chance that the Queen Facehugger grabbed a dog.

How does she lay the egg without an Eggsac? She cant just squat it out. XD And why would she need a egg for anyway she can produce her own when shes ready
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Mus on Mar 15, 2010, 07:20:32 PM
Quote from: Lie1295 on Mar 15, 2010, 07:06:14 PM
How does she lay the egg without an Eggsac? She cant just squat it out. XD And why would she need a egg for anyway she can produce her own when shes ready

Why not? Women do it as well. The eggsack isn't necessarily anything more than a tube connected to the Queen's womb, where the eggs actually are produced. Hypothetically. Like so:

Quote from: Mus on Mar 15, 2010, 11:25:23 AM
there could easily still be eggs inside the Queen after the ovipositor is detached. If we believe Wikipedia, "in some of the insects the organ is used merely to attach the egg to some surface", which essentially just makes it a tool for placing the eggs more accurately. However, removing the ovipositor wouldn't make it impossible to get the eggs out of the "womb" if you will, so the Queen could easily have laid the remaining egg or two inside the ship and placed them somewhere safe.


I personally like the idea, as that would essentially render the eggsack/ovipositor a penis. On a pregnant female. Now that's some twisted shit, mang.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Proj2501 on Mar 15, 2010, 07:55:21 PM
The egg sack serves for futher growth of the eggs.

We can see this egg in comparison to the lettering, which suffice is to say is probably not enormous, is fairly small.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv94%2Favpgalaxy%2Favpg%2Fforum%2Fimage002.jpg&hash=77e11ad3d73407b7aa3bf426b11246c723fb110d)

The eggs grow in size in the Egg Sack and they are receiving nutrients from the Queen. Think breast feeding.

These eggs are much bigger by comparison.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.solarnavigator.net%2Ffilms_movies_actors%2Ffilm_images%2FAlien_Cane_examining_egg.jpg&hash=a1e1f1b9a688d2753bad47153f82b1eea40581d8)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Hyena on Mar 15, 2010, 09:56:40 PM
Some insects don't require an ovipositor.  Surely the 'perfect organism' would have developed to not be totally reliant on the Ovipositor correct?

Think in terms of Yeast.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Mar 15, 2010, 10:39:58 PM
Quote from: Proj2501 on Mar 15, 2010, 07:55:21 PM
The egg sack serves for futher growth of the eggs.

We can see this egg in comparison to the lettering, which suffice is to say is probably not enormous, is fairly small.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/avpgalaxy/avpg/forum/image002.jpg

The eggs grow in size in the Egg Sack and they are receiving nutrients from the Queen. Think breast feeding.

These eggs are much bigger by comparison.
http://www.solarnavigator.net/films_movies_actors/film_images/Alien_Cane_examining_egg.jpg

Comparison to what?  There's no point of reference in the first shot.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Politikon on Mar 16, 2010, 02:09:45 AM
AAAAAHHH!!!!!

Not the EGG question again!!!

Look there actually is an answer to this question, but it's NOT ACTUALLY AN ANSWER.

Here goes.

This thing with the EEV crash landing with an ALIEN both on board and inside Ripley is one of the left-overs from the Vincent Ward script.

If you watch interviews with Ward, he explains that his intention was to sort of imply that Ripley's quilt over all this tragedy has sort of created the ALIEN, or better yet that the origin of it does not even matter because she is so haunted by these monsters that it simply is eternally manifest in her life...then through all the religious metaphors in part 3 it is/Ripley is meant to resemble a sort of distorted version of the Virgin birth of Jesus....only it will destroy the world. It helps to make sense if you think of A:3 as sort of THE OMEN, only the Antichrist is called 'A BEAST' of 'DRAGON' and has been created by it's mother's mental state.

That said, while I like the depth of this idea, coming off of ALIENS, which is more straight forward than any of the ALIEN films, it was an extremely bad decision. Especially since mid way through Production the studio decided to not explain this properly, causing all kinds of problems.

That said, it's my theory that the COLONIAL MARINES game, if it ever sees the light of day, will explain the Egg's origin in a much more traditional way.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Proj2501 on Mar 16, 2010, 05:00:45 AM
Quote from: Politikon on Mar 16, 2010, 02:09:45 AM
This thing with the EEV crash landing with an ALIEN both on board and inside Ripley is one of the left-overs from the Vincent Ward script.

After reading all that, I'm happy it was scrapped. Simply manifesting in Ripley's (Neo Virgin Mary's) presence...ugh.

Quote from: SM on Mar 15, 2010, 10:39:58 PM
Comparison to what?  There's no point of reference in the first shot.

Compared to the lettering of 'SULACO'. Normally, structural-identifying lettering similar on ships, trucks and planes are relatively small. Repeat: THE LETTERS NEXT TO THE EGG ARE MOST LIKELY NO MORE THAN 8-9 INCHES IN LENGTH.

Also, I don't know how crazy you want to get with this, but the lighting on the edges of the metal structure dones't suggest an enormous wall or anything.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Mar 16, 2010, 05:09:59 AM
Nothing in that shot suggests anything other than "Open egg on the Sulaco  dun-dun-duuuuuun!!!".  From which came a normal sized facehugger.

Putting something in all caps isn't going to suddenly make it somehow factual.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Politikon on Mar 17, 2010, 02:48:23 AM
Quote from: Proj2501 on Mar 16, 2010, 05:00:45 AM
Quote from: Politikon on Mar 16, 2010, 02:09:45 AM
This thing with the EEV crash landing with an ALIEN both on board and inside Ripley is one of the left-overs from the Vincent Ward script.

After reading all that, I'm happy it was scrapped. Simply manifesting in Ripley's (Neo Virgin Mary's) presence...ugh.







MY RESPONSE:

Well, the thing is IT kinda wasn't scrapped. And it's not that the ALIEN is supposed to be literally manifesting in Ripley's presence. More like it was meant to be expressionistic..er something. Like a symbol of her guilt or like wishing something into existence.
It'snot meant to be clear and it's almost as if the movie is saying it doesn't matter. I didn't mean to imply, that is....It's not as if the Vincent Ward script out right SAYS this, it is just an arty thing that ended up n ALIEN 3. And while this was an unpopular decision, this actually is the answer to this question.

The egg didnt come from any of those things. It's not meant to be explained because EXPRESSIONISM doesn't need to explain it...

To be honest, it kinda would be a waste of time to include the 'WHERE the alien came from' part of the story in ALIEN 3.
BUT ONLY IF THE STORY IS WHAT THE STORY IS, because if WARD's story, most of which thematically ended up in ALIEN 3, is the story they wanted to tell, the spending time getting the ALIEN there would have just been wasteful.

To take it a step further, I think most people just dont like the story ALIEN 3 chose to tell and the egg on the Sulaco is kinda unimportant to telling that story, which is entirely about and expressionist version of Ripley's mental state. The ALIEN's location doesnt even matter. She'll never escape it at that point.

Another important thing to consider is whether or not ALIENS is actually providing false hope at the end. I mean, the dumbest thing in any of the ALIEN films, IMO, is that they get into hyper sleep at the end of ALIENS as if everything is right as rain. Meanwhile, they are obviously in the middle of an on going disaster...
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Mar 17, 2010, 03:09:11 AM
The Aliens were - as far as they were concerned - destroyed.

There was no "on going disaster".
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Politikon on Mar 17, 2010, 03:37:28 AM
The disaster I speak of is what they were returning to back home. An absolute mess. Just like Ripley returning after ALIEN, only worse.

Think about it. They just blew up a colony of Terraformers after surviving an ALien attack that killed numberous Marines. Thats not even to mention the Company or what the MIlitary would do to them...They are walking into an all around disaster.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Mar 17, 2010, 03:43:55 AM
Thats right SM.

There was no ongoing disaster.  And lets look at it a little closer.

At the start of Aliens we see that Ripley survived her encounter with the Alien physically, but she didn't survive mentally.  She's having nightmares etc.

When offered a chance to go back, she initially refuses, but after waking up from a nightmare she chooses to go on the condition that they're going there to "destroy them right, not to study, not to bring back, but to wipe them out."

From that aspect it becomes a kind of revenge thing.

Fast forward to the scene where ripley is in the nest with the queen, she torches the place and lays waste to the eggs.  Was this a reasonable thing to do - absolutely not - the place was going to blow up anyway but the reason Ripley did it was a carthardic (sp) thing - This was Ripleys revenge.

This fits in well with the end lines of the film:

Newt "Can I dream?"
Ripley "Yes honey, I think we both can."

Obviously implying that Ripley has now survived physically AND mentally.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Proj2501 on Mar 17, 2010, 03:44:25 AM
Quote from: SM on Mar 16, 2010, 05:09:59 AM
Putting something in all caps isn't going to suddenly make it somehow factual.

OKAY.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Mar 17, 2010, 04:08:37 AM
QuoteThink about it. They just blew up a colony of Terraformers after surviving an ALien attack that killed numberous Marines. Thats not even to mention the Company or what the MIlitary would do to them...They are walking into an all around disaster.

What exactly are they going to do to them?

Four eyewitnesses - one of whom is a droid - all telling the same story about what happened and confirming Ripley's story from the first inquiry.  Plus the mission logs sent back to Sulaco.  More than likely they'll give them a stack of money to shut up and go and check on LV-426 to see if they can find anything.

Seeing as they didn't kill Morse (at least not right away) it'd be unlikely they'd kill Ripley, Hicks and Newt.  Especially considering their knowledge and experience.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Mar 17, 2010, 04:48:11 AM
I'd also like to add that the Marines didn't blow anything up.  The AP blew up as a result of the Dropship/APC crash explosion thingy majig.  Lets also not forget that the marines were sent in SPECIFICALLY because no contact had been made with the colony in a while and that they had Ripley's testamony.  They were already suspicious of what was going on.

Given the evidence the survivors had (they now have video and audio of everything that happened via the helmetcams) I doubt very much that anything would have happened to them.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: OpenMaw on Mar 17, 2010, 05:02:22 AM
Quote from: stephen on Mar 17, 2010, 04:48:11 AM
I'd also like to add that the Marines didn't blow anything up.  The AP blew up as a result of the Dropship/APC crash explosion thingy majig. 

On this note, I still find it humorous people question over this... We clearly see the dropship fly right into the AP and go BLAMMO in there.  ;D
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Mar 17, 2010, 05:05:08 AM
and that Bishop actually says that its a result of the crash.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Mar 17, 2010, 05:14:17 AM
Thing is we don't see it particularly clearly.  Bishops dialogue clears this up however.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Politikon on Mar 17, 2010, 07:14:11 AM
Quote from: SM on Mar 17, 2010, 05:14:17 AM
Thing is we don't see it particularly clearly.  Bishops dialogue clears this up however.

It doesn't matter. The Company would have a field day with all this. It's not in keeping with the mythology of the films in anyway to assume that anyone back home has any intention of not ruining her. The company/ the military/ every single human she encounters is corrupt. Her exposure to the monster alone obviously puts her in danger. It's ony logical to assume they will ruin her to cover it up or expose her to endless questioning or even kill to shut them up.

Im sorry but I completely disagree that the human race does not pose a serious threat to the 3 survivors at the end of ALIENS. In fact, it would be incongruous if Part 3 started and they weren't in serious danger.

As a matter of fact, I don't even believe they were out of the water at the end of ALIENS enough to not further their own investigation.

I dunno where you guys are getting these ideals from regarding the ALIEN series, certainly not the same series I'm watching.

The Human race is depicted as being seriously amoral, exploitative and interested only in power, and personal gain.

I think ALIEN 3 was definitely right in it's assumption that Ripley had nothing to go back to.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Mar 17, 2010, 10:10:17 PM
QuoteIt's not in keeping with the mythology of the films in anyway to assume that anyone back home has any intention of not ruining her.

How was she ruined the first time precisely?  Based on the evidence at hand, they revoked her flight status.  And then reinstated it shortly after when she agreed to go back.  If they were intent on ruining here they weren't terribly good at it.

QuoteThe company/ the military/ every single human she encounters is corrupt.

Eh?  I'll grant you Burke.  Ash had no choice.  But the Nostromo crew and all the marines were corrupt? You have watched these films right?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Mar 17, 2010, 11:36:15 PM
I agree with SM.

The company as a whole didn't really know anything about the alien.  And as far as we know there were no more attempts since the Nostromo to when Ripley is picked up to get the Alien so I'm assuming that it was a small number of people that originally sent the nostromo there.

In Aliens, it was only Burke.  Burke was the one person that gave the colonists the coordinates.   For all intents and purposes Burke was seemingly acting alone.

Van Lewin (sp) and co didn't really come down all that hard on Ripley considering she freely admitted to detonating and thereby destroying an M class starfreighter.  With absolutely no other evidence to hand besides her testimony they really didn't do much to her.

BUT


Ulitmately its all irrelevant.  Even if you're right, do you really think that Ripley, Hicks and Newt would care less what the company did to them.  They just survived hell.

The important thing to consider about the ending to Aliens was that Ripley has now survived her nightmare and she can "dream" again.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Politikon on Mar 18, 2010, 01:07:18 AM
I disagree entirely. There is a constant underlying thread that the human race has lost it's morality.
Not when it concerns the lay-folk but apart from her crew members Ripley next to never encounters a friendly face.
I can't go any further with this conversation because this really boils down to interpretation and it's my persoanl opinion that a safe and happy human race is not evident in the ALIEN universe to the the extent that I think if we ever saw one it wouldn't fit with the series.

As for the Company, I'm not even gonna debate whether they are corrupt, it's silly. The films obviously want you to know they can't be trusted.

The only people worth shit in this universe are the downtrodden, thats the way its depicted. Even the humans we qet to know express things like racism/ apartheid towards the androids, and a money above all else policy.
The Company not believing Ripley is meant to mean, they don't care or dont want anyone to know. They are trying to bury the situation by making her the fall guy.

It's naive to think they just didn't trust her...

And as for do I really think they would care less....the answer is NO. I think they should have been concerned and anyway you started ALIEN 3 had to involve that concern and tell that story.

What would you have happen?

Would they lie and say nothing about the ALIEN? Because I don't know what universe you live in but do you think they could tell their story and not have serious life altering reactions?
How?

Like it should just jump to 3 years later and they are living happily ever after in the MId-west? No way. ALIENS clearly did not wrap up the story. It's ending is intended to imply more to come from whereevr.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Politikon on Mar 18, 2010, 01:15:38 AM
Could you imagine?
                                                            RIPLEY:
Oh about those Marines...turns out there WAS this race of Vicious Aliens and they wiped out that whole colony and all the Marines. We were exposed to them, but managed to escape by the skin of our teeth before that nuclear explosion,except for that one Queen that lays eggs, she followed us onto the Sulaco but we managed to blow her out of the air lock. But hey! As you can see it wasnt OUR Fault! Oh and btw, that Burke guy, he was up to no good and tried to imprenate me with one of those monsters.
Anyway, I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so. Well, I'm gonna get married to this Hicks guy since you guys believe me and don't need me for anything else, oh and I'm gonna adopt this orphaned little girl. Byeee!"
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: OpenMaw on Mar 18, 2010, 01:20:10 AM
Quote from: Politikon on Mar 18, 2010, 01:15:38 AM
Could you imagine?
                                                            RIPLEY:
Oh about those Marines...turns out there WAS this race of Vicious Aliens and they wiped out that whole colony and all the Marines. We were exposed to them, but managed to escape by the skin of our teeth before that nuclear explosion,except for that one Queen that lays eggs, she followed us onto the Sulaco but we managed to blow her out of the air lock. But hey! As you can see it wasnt OUR Fault! Oh and btw, that Burke guy, he was up to no good and tried to imprenate me with one of those monsters.
Anyway, I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so. Well, I'm gonna get married to this Hicks guy since you guys believe me and don't need me for anything else, oh and I'm gonna adopt this orphaned little girl. Byeee!"

No, but I could imagine Hicks, Ripley, Newt and Bishop all giving nearly the same exact account of events and this becoming a much bigger issue than simply getting the alien as a weapon.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Mar 18, 2010, 01:20:59 AM
QuoteALIENS clearly did not wrap up the story. It's ending is intended to imply more to come from whereevr.

It wrapped up the story to that point.  Ripley had faced her demons and overcome them.  Obviously there was scope to go in any direction - which they did.  But Aliens was intended to be self contained and an end in and of itself.  The saga could've easily ended there.  No cliffhanger, no loose ends.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Mar 18, 2010, 01:25:57 AM
In alien she saw no one BUT her crew members and the only one that was hostile was Ash and he was an android.

In Aliens she saw a nurse and would have seen doctors and she was working in the cargo bays running loaders etc and there was no indication that anything bad came from that.

At the inquest she stated her case and without any evidence to back up her story they didn't really come down all that hard on her considering 5 people were killed, an android destroyed an m class star freighter destroyed minus payload of course and all when she ADMITS that she was the one that blew it up.

Frankly I think she got off bloody lightly.

Your claims about the "downtrodden" is I think a complete an utter assumption on your part.  The only person that showed any ill feeling towards an android was Ripley (i'm not counting the later films as we're strictly discussing the Alien egg on sulaco situation) and explained by her experience with Ash - by the end of Aliens she trusts bishop.

The marines in aliens didn't give too hoots about money and certainly not above all else.

You're comments about the Company not believing RIpley and trying to make her the fall guy is I'm assuming you talking about the Inquest - I think it was very very clear in aliens that the company didn't know anything about the alien (at least those in the inquest) and that Burke was acting ALONE when he sent the coordinates and again when let the facehuggers loose on Ripley and Newt.  That I thought was extremely clear.

And of course they didn't trust Ripley, she'd blown up one of their ships.

Going further - Ripley wouldn't give a rats ass after all she'd been through as to whether or not the company were going to be doing anything to her when she got back.  Lets also not forget that now the military is involved so they would be coming into the whole thing as well not just the company.

Seriously, Ripley and co have literally just survived the worst thing they could possible have gone through, do you really think they would think about or care what is going to happen to them when they get back - I don't think they would give it a second thought.  Given that they now have evidence of what had happened and my statements above about the fact that the company didn't really know and it was only ever small groups in the company that did anything then I think they're pretty safe.

What would I have happen -  Wouldn't change a thing simple because I believe Cameron set up the ending perfectly.

He implied that the company knew nothing about the alien, knew nothing about the Nostromo's orders.  He showed that Burke was acting alone.  Ripley and Co can now be safe in that they now have evidence and no one is going to come down hard on them at all.

And like I said before, thats not the ending that Cameron needed to tell - the ending needed to show that Ripley has survived physically AND mentally from her ordeal.

I think the ending wrapped it up nicely.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Politikon on Mar 19, 2010, 08:04:37 PM
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 18, 2010, 01:20:10 AM
Quote from: Politikon on Mar 18, 2010, 01:15:38 AM
Could you imagine?
                                                            RIPLEY:
Oh about those Marines...turns out there WAS this race of Vicious Aliens and they wiped out that whole colony and all the Marines. We were exposed to them, but managed to escape by the skin of our teeth before that nuclear explosion,except for that one Queen that lays eggs, she followed us onto the Sulaco but we managed to blow her out of the air lock. But hey! As you can see it wasnt OUR Fault! Oh and btw, that Burke guy, he was up to no good and tried to imprenate me with one of those monsters.
Anyway, I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so. Well, I'm gonna get married to this Hicks guy since you guys believe me and don't need me for anything else, oh and I'm gonna adopt this orphaned little girl. Byeee!"

No, but I could imagine Hicks, Ripley, Newt and Bishop all giving nearly the same exact account of events and this becoming a much bigger issue than simply getting the alien as a weapon.

Right, so in other words, they are still in a heap of shit.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: DamnBirds on Mar 21, 2010, 05:37:03 AM
One of the mainy reasons why Alien 3 doesn't make sense.  Alien / Aliens ... only two that exist in the franchise to me.  The rest is just crap.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Mar 21, 2010, 10:32:32 PM
Quote from: Politikon on Mar 19, 2010, 08:04:37 PM
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 18, 2010, 01:20:10 AM
Quote from: Politikon on Mar 18, 2010, 01:15:38 AM
Could you imagine?
                                                            RIPLEY:
Oh about those Marines...turns out there WAS this race of Vicious Aliens and they wiped out that whole colony and all the Marines. We were exposed to them, but managed to escape by the skin of our teeth before that nuclear explosion,except for that one Queen that lays eggs, she followed us onto the Sulaco but we managed to blow her out of the air lock. But hey! As you can see it wasnt OUR Fault! Oh and btw, that Burke guy, he was up to no good and tried to imprenate me with one of those monsters.
Anyway, I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so. Well, I'm gonna get married to this Hicks guy since you guys believe me and don't need me for anything else, oh and I'm gonna adopt this orphaned little girl. Byeee!"

No, but I could imagine Hicks, Ripley, Newt and Bishop all giving nearly the same exact account of events and this becoming a much bigger issue than simply getting the alien as a weapon.

Right, so in other words, they are still in a heap of shit.

No have you been listening?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: coolshow on Mar 22, 2010, 12:42:54 PM
How do you think the egg got on the Sulaco?

well if you ask me i think its up to the viewer to answer that one ?? For exmple where did the eggs come from that kane found in Alien ? Its all part of a plot The queen was angry when ripley burned her eggs so she left one in the sulaco
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: maledoro on Mar 22, 2010, 02:31:11 PM
Quote from: coolshow on Mar 22, 2010, 12:42:54 PM
well if you ask me i think its up to the viewer to answer that one ??
"??" So, you're not sure of your statement?

Quote from: coolshow on Mar 22, 2010, 12:42:54 PM
For exmple where did the eggs come from that kane found in Alien ? Its all part of a plot
The eggs are part of the plot, but depending on which version of Alien you go by, the origin of the eggs may or may not be part of the plot.

Quote from: coolshow on Mar 22, 2010, 12:42:54 PM
The queen was angry when ripley burned her eggs so she left one in the sulaco
It's very unlikely that at the time Ripley was burning the nest that the queen would know that Ripley would be hitching a ride on a ship. I agree with those who theorize that the queen was in the middle of passing an egg when Ripley came to visit.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: coolshow on Mar 22, 2010, 08:30:21 PM
no egg means no alien its simple
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: OpenMaw on Mar 22, 2010, 08:32:07 PM
Quote from: coolshow on Mar 22, 2010, 08:30:21 PM
no egg means no alien its simple

Thats a non-answer. Since the question is specifically how, not why.  :)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: maledoro on Mar 22, 2010, 09:44:06 PM
Quote from: coolshow on Mar 22, 2010, 08:30:21 PM
no egg means no alien its simple
I know that; I already addressed that. But knowing where the eggs came from has nothing to do with the plot, which deals with the survival of the Nostromo's crew. The origin of the eggs has nothing to do with the outcome of the story.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: coolshow on Mar 23, 2010, 01:56:04 PM
How did the fire start ?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: OpenMaw on Mar 23, 2010, 09:15:45 PM
Quote from: coolshow on Mar 23, 2010, 01:56:04 PM
How did the fire start ?

Acid sparked an electrical fire.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Mar 23, 2010, 09:51:43 PM
^ Cracked crytoube = cut hugger.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Basher917 on May 18, 2010, 01:13:32 AM
(from what I've read and seen in aliens and alien 3, this is what i can infer, please, if needed, correct me with any interviews, quotes from Cameron, etc. ) basically, James was never suspecting an alien 3. he probably thought there were to many questions left to be answered in the ending of Alien, so he came up with the idea of a sequel, to tell you what happened to Ripley and the rest of the eggs on the space-jockey's ship. so he made Aliens, now were is evidence? It's in the movie it self, at the end of the film, the quote of Ripley and newt made, before going to cryo sleep makes it almost impossible for anyone to think there would be a 3rd instalment in the series story wise, due to holywood and the public demand for another installment (as allways) hence fourth came the goddamn attempt to resurrect the series with alien 3, witch makes people hate the movie for it's confusing begging, but it has a good middle and end witch makes it so underrated. (this is my opinion, so don't go criticizing me like I'm completely wrong about everything in life.)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on May 18, 2010, 01:29:38 AM
Cameron was pretty sure at the time they would make another sequel, only that someone else would be doing it and not him.  He only had to make his story self contained.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Basher917 on May 18, 2010, 01:51:49 AM
yes, as I've been corrected on that, strangely, as an alien fan i can't seem to find an aliens DVD disc at the right time (not having money when i find one) or interviews on the internet about him thinking about the sequel, but then again, I'm sometimes inpatient ( my computer has some probs with internet for some reason and is sometimes as slow as hell). I also need to correct my post, how he made it hard to have an egg on the ship for a sequel,( he didn't know how anyone else could make the sequel, as you said SM, he would not know who would direct it), and so he never took the time to have more possible ways for a sequel. So, as i say again, the dierectors made a goddamn confusing beginning, not even giving a hint how it got there. ( other than the alien queen on the ship, this is a reason why Alien 3 isn't up with predator on my favorite Alien/Predator movie list.) Therefore, that is how this big question is made. ( this topic is a little similar to why "Kane's son" in Alien didn't turn into a queen, due to how each movie new ideas are made.) as i say again, this is my opinion, please do not criticize it.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on May 18, 2010, 02:20:56 AM
It wasn't so much that "he didn't know how anyone else could make the sequel" it was just that he wasn't really interested.  The third film could've and did go in a number of directions before finally ending up on screen.  There was no grand plan and Cameron wasn't required to set anything up for another film.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: alienfan95610 on May 18, 2010, 02:25:43 AM
ahhhh...the endless "How DID that egg get on the Sulaco?" question....

Lots of interesting ideas..some better than others..but, for me, it still boils down to cheap, horrible writing on the part of the script writers. They needed an egg to be there to have a film, so they put one there with no care or thought to how it could have gotten there. A slap in our faces as fans really.....

But, carry on with the theories...I do find them enjoyable  :)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Basher917 on May 18, 2010, 02:28:56 AM
Quote from: scorpio95628 on May 18, 2010, 02:25:43 AM
ahhhh...the endless "How DID that egg get on the Sulaco?" question....

Lots of interesting ideas..some better than others..but, for me, it still boils down to cheap, horrible writing on the part of the script writers. They needed an egg to be there to have a film, so they put one there with no care or thought to how it could have gotten there. A slap in our faces as fans really.....

But, carry on with the theories...I do find them enjoyable  :)

Yep, i agree with you,  that's how holywood is with hit movie sagas, and trying to earn some quick cash by making  sequels that are not needed.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on May 18, 2010, 02:29:46 AM
It's not Hollywod as such - it's lazy writing.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Some Mothers Do Have Em! on May 20, 2010, 01:54:40 AM
Quote from: SM on Mar 17, 2010, 10:10:17 PM
QuoteIt's not in keeping with the mythology of the films in anyway to assume that anyone back home has any intention of not ruining her.

How was she ruined the first time precisely?  Based on the evidence at hand, they revoked her flight status.  And then reinstated it shortly after when she agreed to go back.  If they were intent on ruining here they weren't terribly good at it.

QuoteThe company/ the military/ every single human she encounters is corrupt.

Eh?  I'll grant you Burke.  Ash had no choice.  But the Nostromo crew and all the marines were corrupt? You have watched these films right?


lol I have been thinking the same thing. 
Quote from: Politikon on Mar 17, 2010, 03:37:28 AM
The disaster I speak of is what they were returning to back home. An absolute mess. Just like Ripley returning after ALIEN, only worse.

Think about it. They just blew up a colony of Terraformers after surviving an ALien attack that killed numberous Marines. Thats not even to mention the Company or what the MIlitary would do to them...They are walking into an all around disaster.

They blew up a colony of terraformers?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Xenoscream on May 24, 2010, 10:41:59 AM
As much as I would like a reason for it being there it really is just down to bad writing.

As for the one egg somehow getting 2 people impregnated, thats a plot hole for me as well.

The only way to logically get an egg at the end of Aliens would be to go back down the planet, find the derelict and pick one up- all of which would have taken up too much screen time and explanation, so they just planted one there - we the audience were never meant to question where it came from.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Basher917 on May 24, 2010, 11:28:50 AM
Quote from: Xenoscream on May 24, 2010, 10:41:59 AM


The only way to logically get an egg at the end of Aliens would be to go back down the planet, find the derelict and pick one up- all of which would have taken up too much screen time and explanation,


umm tht doesn't make much sence, the aliens in the colony were from derilect, Weyland yutani sent the colonists to go search the derilict, they got face hugged, the the aliens brought the remaining eggs to the colony. unless your suggesting there were eggs remaining somehow.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Xenoscream on May 24, 2010, 01:20:24 PM
Quote from: Basher917 on May 24, 2010, 11:28:50 AM
Quote from: Xenoscream on May 24, 2010, 10:41:59 AM


The only way to logically get an egg at the end of Aliens would be to go back down the planet, find the derelict and pick one up- all of which would have taken up too much screen time and explanation,


umm tht doesn't make much sence, the aliens in the colony were from derilect, Weyland yutani sent the colonists to go search the derilict, they got face hugged, the the aliens brought the remaining eggs to the colony. unless your suggesting there were eggs remaining somehow.

Yeah there were thousands in the derelict, I don't think the colonists took that many of them.

The eggs in the colony would have been destroyed when the place blew up, so the only place an egg could have come from was the derelict.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: maledoro on May 24, 2010, 05:08:55 PM
Quote from: Xenoscream on May 24, 2010, 10:41:59 AM
The only way to logically get an egg at the end of Aliens would be to go back down the planet, find the derelict and pick one up
There were other explanations in this thread that were far more plausible than that.

Quote from: Basher917 on May 24, 2010, 11:28:50 AM
the aliens in the colony were from derilect, Weyland yutani sent the colonists to go search the derilict, they got face hugged, the the aliens brought the remaining eggs to the colony.
Would it be considered a spoiler if I reveal a gigantic plot element from a movie that was released almost 24 years ago?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Xenoscream on May 24, 2010, 07:09:53 PM
Quote from: maledoro on May 24, 2010, 05:08:55 PM
Quote from: Xenoscream on May 24, 2010, 10:41:59 AM
The only way to logically get an egg at the end of Aliens would be to go back down the planet, find the derelict and pick one up
There were other explanations in this thread that were far more plausible than that.

Quote from: Basher917 on May 24, 2010, 11:28:50 AM
the aliens in the colony were from derilect, Weyland yutani sent the colonists to go search the derilict, they got face hugged, the the aliens brought the remaining eggs to the colony.
Would it be considered a spoiler if I reveal a gigantic plot element from a movie that was released almost 24 years ago?

You missed my point, I was saying that is the only logical way to get an egg, not how there was one in A3.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: maledoro on May 24, 2010, 07:12:56 PM
Quote from: Xenoscream on May 24, 2010, 07:09:53 PM
You missed my point, I was saying that is the only logical way to get an egg, not how there was one in A3.
And then do what with that egg? I mean in a narrative sense (e.g., put it on the Sulaco, or some other event within the films).
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on May 24, 2010, 11:03:09 PM
QuoteThe only way to logically get an egg at the end of Aliens would be to go back down the planet, find the derelict and pick one up- all of which would have taken up too much screen time and explanation, so they just planted one there - we the audience were never meant to question where it came from.

How is that logical?

There was a Queen on the Sulaco.  Eggs come from Queens.  Ipso facto.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Xenoscream on May 25, 2010, 09:36:06 AM
Going with Aliens as cannon:

From when the Queen emerges from the landing leg, we don't ever loose track of her, she does not lay an egg on the ceiling near the cryo tubes somewhere.

If you accept this as fact (which I do) then the only other place that eggs still exist is the Derelict.

Now I'm not saying this is where the Egg in Alien 3 is from.

I'm saying that when faced with this situation the film makers rather than make some plot involving the derelict wanted to go in a different direction and therefore were forced to put in an egg without a logical explanation.

This is my opinion :-)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: alienfan95610 on May 25, 2010, 10:20:22 AM
The problem is...I don't believe the writers thought about it period. If they had, it would have been fairly simple to show us a quick shot of the dropship landing gear with an egg there. That shot alone would have told us it was the queen, that she had laid it on the flight up to the Sulaco, and that the facehugger that came from it is the one in Alien 3. Mystery pretty much solved.

But since none of that happened....the egg got there via crappy writing.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: maledoro on May 25, 2010, 01:59:29 PM
Quote from: Xenoscream on May 25, 2010, 09:36:06 AM
From when the Queen emerges from the landing leg, we don't ever loose track of her, she does not lay an egg on the ceiling near the cryo tubes somewhere.
We don't know that the egg is anywhere near the cryotubes. But then, this has been mentioned before.

Quote from: Xenoscream on May 25, 2010, 09:36:06 AM
If you accept this as fact (which I do) then the only other place that eggs still exist is the Derelict.
If the derelict still exists. This, too, has been brought up before.

Quote from: Xenoscream on May 25, 2010, 09:36:06 AM
I'm saying that when faced with this situation the film makers rather than make some plot involving the derelict wanted to go in a different direction and therefore were forced to put in an egg without a logical explanation.
Using this wonderful thing called "context", we can figure that the queen had somehow laid an egg on the Sulaco.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on May 25, 2010, 11:24:03 PM
QuoteIf you accept this as fact (which I do) then the only other place that eggs still exist is the Derelict.

I don't.

'Cos a) the Queen could've brought an egg with her, b) or could've laid one en route and c) the Derelict is no more.

QuoteBut then, this has been mentioned before.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Jorko_Beliata on May 26, 2010, 05:04:58 AM
Weeeell, that's a long one.

To be honest, always thought they put the egg in Sulaco just because they needed to make one more movie?  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Sgt. Apone on May 08, 2011, 08:36:05 PM
Quote from: maledoro on May 25, 2010, 01:59:29 PM
Quote from: Xenoscream on May 25, 2010, 09:36:06 AM
From when the Queen emerges from the landing leg, we don't ever loose track of her, she does not lay an egg on the ceiling near the cryo tubes somewhere.
We don't know that the egg is anywhere near the cryotubes. But then, this has been mentioned before.

Quote from: Xenoscream on May 25, 2010, 09:36:06 AM
If you accept this as fact (which I do) then the only other place that eggs still exist is the Derelict.
If the derelict still exists. This, too, has been brought up before.

Quote from: Xenoscream on May 25, 2010, 09:36:06 AM
I'm saying that when faced with this situation the film makers rather than make some plot involving the derelict wanted to go in a different direction and therefore were forced to put in an egg without a logical explanation.
Using this wonderful thing called "context", we can figure that the queen had somehow laid an egg on the Sulaco.

At the end of Aliens, we hear a facehugger crawling around. Maybe it hitched a ride on the drop ship with the queen. Then, it moved the egg that the queen laid closer to the cryotubes.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on May 08, 2011, 11:10:38 PM
Why?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: MrSpaceJockey on May 08, 2011, 11:38:57 PM
The facehugger sound was nothing but a joke that James Cameron did as a sorta, "final jump" scare for the viewers.

Facehuggers carrying eggs?  :-\
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: TheMonolith on May 09, 2011, 12:26:01 AM
As much as I like Alien 3, this is a pretty glaring continuity error.
Did the Queen carry an egg or two with her after Ripley blew the rest up or lay an emergency egg as is the general theory?
I wish an explanation was given or at least suggested by one of the characters.
I always thought there was two facehuggers as opposed to one. One with the Queen and the other with the runner.
The emergancy eggs theory seems plausible enough.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Sgt. Apone on May 09, 2011, 02:09:12 AM
Quote from: MrSpaceJockey on May 08, 2011, 11:38:57 PM
The facehugger sound was nothing but a joke that James Cameron did as a sorta, "final jump" scare for the viewers.

Facehuggers carrying eggs?  :-\

I got the theory from someone at Alienexperience.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: MrSpaceJockey on May 09, 2011, 02:11:18 AM
 ;). I personally prefer the tentacle walking egg theory.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on May 09, 2011, 02:21:40 AM
Can't think of a reason for a hugger to move an egg.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: PsyKore on May 09, 2011, 12:23:27 PM
I've sort of accepted that the Queen brought an egg with her and stuck it to the wall while no-one was looking. It still doesn't sound right but it's the most plausible.

Why they didn't just have a stray facehugger without showing an egg at the beginning of A3 - which would've made more sense - is beyond me...
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on May 09, 2011, 05:01:49 PM
Quote from: Sgt. Apone on May 08, 2011, 08:36:05 PM

At the end of Aliens, we hear a facehugger crawling around. Maybe it hitched a ride on the drop ship with the queen. Then, it moved the egg that the queen laid closer to the cryotubes.

Couple of problems with that. First of all, after finding out that the Queen managed to sneak in the dropship and into the Sulaco, theres no possible way Bishop and Ripley wouldnt scan and search every inch of he dropship and the Sulaco for any more aliens onboard. Secondly, the facehugger still couldnt possibly know where the cryoroom is and even more so, open the doors to it (and the cryoroom was on a different level as far as I know, so it would also have to use elevator). Also, it makes no sense for a facehugger to move eggs instead of impregnating by himself, also it doesnt make sense to wait 2 weeks.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: TheMonolith on May 09, 2011, 09:29:38 PM
Cut out that one half second shot of the egg and the problem is solved. Everyone would just say the facehuggers hitched a ride on the Queen and his in the dropship. Kind of weird how that works.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on May 09, 2011, 09:36:20 PM
Still, the bioscans would detect it and Ripley and Bishop would sure make a thorough check for any more unwanted passengers. And why didnt it attack any of the crew members right away, why did it wait 2 weeks and how did it got to the cryo chamber
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: TheMonolith on May 09, 2011, 09:43:29 PM
Poor scripting.
As much as I like Alien 3, it was way too rushed. I know that it was in development for a while but when you start shooting before your script is finished, things won't go very well.
You do that, you will wind up with lots of plot holes
...unless you are Francis Ford Coppola.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on May 09, 2011, 09:54:42 PM
I absolutely understand, Im just saying that theres really no plausible theory as of yet to cover that hole up
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: TheMonolith on May 09, 2011, 10:02:03 PM
Not saying there is.
This glaring error is very frustrating. I like the film, always have even before I was a hardcore fan of the series.
It gives the people who hate it ammunition. It gives the people who love it something they wished could be improved upon. It gives the people who worked on it a bad rap as being lazy.

A friend once told me that if the positions of Alien 3 and Aliens had been switched, with Ripley escaping from Fury 161 and making it back to Earth before living out the events of Aliens, the series would have worked better.
I wonder sometimes.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Sgt. Apone on May 09, 2011, 10:37:25 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on May 09, 2011, 05:01:49 PM
Quote from: Sgt. Apone on May 08, 2011, 08:36:05 PM

At the end of Aliens, we hear a facehugger crawling around. Maybe it hitched a ride on the drop ship with the queen. Then, it moved the egg that the queen laid closer to the cryotubes.

Couple of problems with that. First of all, after finding out that the Queen managed to sneak in the dropship and into the Sulaco, theres no possible way Bishop and Ripley wouldnt scan and search every inch of he dropship and the Sulaco for any more aliens onboard. Secondly, the facehugger still couldnt possibly know where the cryoroom is and even more so, open the doors to it (and the cryoroom was on a different level as far as I know, so it would also have to use elevator). Also, it makes no sense for a facehugger to move eggs instead of impregnating by himself, also it doesnt make sense to wait 2 weeks.

As I said, I'm repeating this theory I heard. I dn't really believe it myself.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Michael Harper on May 09, 2011, 11:33:20 PM
I just prefer to see Aliens as the end. I watched Alien 3 when I got the Blu-Ray anthology set for the first time in years. Whilst I think Alien 3 is not a bad film by no means, that big plot hole of the egg was always the huge turn off for me about that film.

So, I like to just believe that Aliens was the conclusion.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Pn2501 on May 09, 2011, 11:54:42 PM
I don't discount alien3 because of it, it wax a plot device and I accept it, just as ripley floating for 57 years and the company, (and or the operatives who sent Order 937)  colonists, and surveyors not finding the derelict in the above mentioned 57 years.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Michael Harper on May 09, 2011, 11:55:49 PM
Quote from: Pn2501 on May 09, 2011, 11:54:42 PM
I don't discount alien3 because of it, it wax a plot device and I accept it, just as ripley floating for 57 years and the company, (and or the operatives who sent Order 937)  colonists, and surveyors not finding the derelict in the above mentioned 57 years.

Good point about the "surveyors not finding the derelict in the above mentioned 57 years."

haha :P
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Pn2501 on May 09, 2011, 11:57:35 PM
Don't worry the cameron apologists will be here soon. ;)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Michael Harper on May 09, 2011, 11:58:09 PM
Quote from: Pn2501 on May 09, 2011, 11:57:35 PM
Don't worry the cameron apologists will be here soon. ;)

Haha :P
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on May 09, 2011, 11:59:53 PM
QuoteSecondly, the facehugger still couldnt possibly know where the cryoroom is and even more so, open the doors to it (and the cryoroom was on a different level as far as I know, so it would also have to use elevator).

Fairly sure all the areas we see on the Sulaco are on the one level - and even if they're not - a hugger suddenly can't climb?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on May 10, 2011, 12:12:06 AM
Quote from: SM on May 09, 2011, 11:59:53 PM
QuoteSecondly, the facehugger still couldnt possibly know where the cryoroom is and even more so, open the doors to it (and the cryoroom was on a different level as far as I know, so it would also have to use elevator).

Fairly sure all the areas we see on the Sulaco are on the one level - and even if they're not - a hugger suddenly can't climb?

I think its safe to say cry chamber has doors and it would be a stretch to suggest a facehugger know how to open electronic doors which btw probably arent even powered during hypersleep
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Pn2501 on May 10, 2011, 12:14:23 AM
Being a military ship It would have contingencies to stop the crew getting compromised whilst asleep.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on May 10, 2011, 12:19:05 AM
Quote from: Pn2501 on May 10, 2011, 12:14:23 AM
Being a military ship It would have contingencies to stop the crew getting compromised whilst asleep.

But the energy has to be conserved. For example the novelization talks about Narcissus conserving energy by powering only crucial elements. Even the doors werent powered. That would most likely be the case with Sulaco. And of course, powered or not, we're talking about a giant ship with multiple levels, elevators and doors with electronic doorlocks. To say a facehugger would just go around the ship opening doors is stretching it iof you ask me, but if someone finds it plausible, good for him

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Pn2501 on May 10, 2011, 12:21:01 AM
The narcissus was an escape pod that makes sense to conserve energy.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on May 10, 2011, 12:27:53 AM
QuoteI think its safe to say cry chamber has doors and it would be a stretch to suggest a facehugger know how to open electronic doors which btw probably arent even powered during hypersleep

The cryotubes, lockers and galley were all one big room.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on May 10, 2011, 12:47:41 AM
Quote from: SM on May 10, 2011, 12:27:53 AM
QuoteI think its safe to say cry chamber has doors and it would be a stretch to suggest a facehugger know how to open electronic doors which btw probably arent even powered during hypersleep

The cryotubes, lockers and galley were all one big room.

And you tihnk this room wouldnt have ANY doors being out in the open or an extension/part of the docking  bay? All rooms on Sulaco were big, so was the mess hall, and so the doors are big, as weve seen on Sulaco in the docking bay. The point is facehugger had to have used plenty of doors and maybe even elevators in a ship which is in sleep mode to get what it was
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on May 10, 2011, 12:51:06 AM
QuoteAnd you tihnk this room wouldnt have ANY doors being out in the open or an extension/part of the docking  bay?

Don't know without checking the film again.

QuoteThe point is facehugger had to have used plenty of doors and maybe even elevators in a ship which is in sleep mode to get what it was

Because of course Aliens really hate ducts.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on May 10, 2011, 01:01:21 AM
Quote from: SM on May 10, 2011, 12:51:06 AM
QuoteAnd you tihnk this room wouldnt have ANY doors being out in the open or an extension/part of the docking  bay?

Don't know without checking the film again.

Im talkin about the big hangar doors which Ripley closed

Quote
QuoteThe point is facehugger had to have used plenty of doors and maybe even elevators in a ship which is in sleep mode to get what it was

Because of course Aliens really hate ducts.


Fair point
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on May 10, 2011, 01:05:19 AM
QuoteIm talkin about the big hangar doors which Ripley closed


The ones that lead to the storage bay?  Doubt they lead anywhere else.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: keylight-di on May 10, 2011, 09:38:49 AM
But... Can't we leave it without explanations? I always liked it like this. Mysterious thing. Destination... Like in Greek tragedy, no matter what you do, no matter how much are you trying to escape this, to avoid it - it reaches you, keeping you in cold grip. Because it's the worst nightmare, and nightmares don't need explanation.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Sharp Sticks on May 10, 2011, 01:48:06 PM
The Alien isn't literally a nightmare. It's a very scary physical being with physical limitations. That's why it's scary, because we can invest in it as a real danger before the credits roll. It's not a ghost, and the egg on the Sulaco continues to be the most barefaced nonsensical and unbelievable plot device in the series.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: keylight-di on May 10, 2011, 02:30:12 PM
Quote from: Sharp Sticks on May 10, 2011, 01:48:06 PM
The Alien isn't literally a nightmare. It's a very scary physical being with physical limitations. That's why it's scary, because we can invest in it as a real danger before the credits roll. It's not a ghost, and the egg on the Sulaco continues to be the most barefaced nonsensical and unbelievable plot device in the series.

I guess, you get me wrong... I know that Alien it's Alien, creature with acid blood etc., etc... So I didn't think about things like some dumb magic, no.. please.... :( But we seriously can't have explanations for many questions. Like why they can climb walls (what about gravitation? ;) ), what they eat (if they eat), how is possible to use DNA by species based on silicon etc., etc. again. We can make many discussions in many threads about subject like this, but we simply have no knowledge about it, no tips.
Because they are in fact fictional characters and they are created for some reasons.

They behave like directors wanted, they look like directors wanted. We have to agree for it. Or not.

But on the other hand, as fictional characters they have double meaning. If spectator watches Alien movie like horror, he/she can find dangerous, not understandable creature.
But if you look for deeper meaning in these movies (I know that you know what I'm talking about, the whole sexual, almost Freudish meaning and other meanings also), you can find it there too. For me personally Alien Saga never was horror movie, maybe when I watched Alien the very first time, as a child. These movies are deeper, with many levels of meaning. Depending on the knowledge that you have - you can find there more and more.

So for me every movie it's the story about destiny, fear, and helplessness in the face of the inevitable. This is why I used comparison to Greek tragedy. As metaphor.

This is why I don't need explanations for some question.

And I never forget about other meanings also. There are too many levels to describe them here, not right place and you know about it as well. But these movies aren't only about scary physical being IMHO.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Sharp Sticks on May 10, 2011, 06:44:34 PM
Sure, but I don't think that defying the laws of time and space with magical teleporting eggs makes the Aliens any more of a credible threat. That egg didn't get there through some mysterious biological ability, it got there because the filmmakers said it had to be there and hoped people wouldn't think about it.

When I watch Alien3 my suspension of disbelief gets shattered in the opening credits - if you can roll with it as fantasy, I'm happy for you, but it still goes completely against the rules established in the first two films.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: keylight-di on May 10, 2011, 06:59:41 PM
I understand. And even for a moment I didn't think about any "magical teleporting". Only about thing we can't explain. Like why gravity is afraid of Aliens... ;)

I just don't want to be next predxeno, using logical thinking and canon everywhere. I'm biologist and I would want explanations about genetics and physiology of Xenomorphs, but I know very well, that's simply impossible. But no matter, I try to do it sometimes. :)

Maybe sometimes we should just enjoy of movie...? It's only my, very subjective POV, I don't want to force anyone to do this same. I love A3 and I have no problem with any lack of logic.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on May 11, 2011, 02:15:27 AM
It can be difficult to enjoy a film when the film is doing it's best to make you not enjoy it.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Space Sweeper on May 11, 2011, 02:19:26 AM
Shoulda went with the Gibson script...
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: TheMonolith on May 11, 2011, 02:23:06 AM
Was that the one with the wodden planet of monks or another script I am unaware of?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Sharp Sticks on May 11, 2011, 02:27:16 AM
Quote from: Space Sweeper on May 11, 2011, 02:19:26 AM
Shoulda went with the Gibson script...
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstaging.easybikemaintenance.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F01%2Fwilliam-gibson-300x2251.jpg&hash=8e6a950b7072d7bfc98e3a1518049605d432668b)

if only they had known

Quote from: TheMonolith on May 11, 2011, 02:23:06 AM
Was that the one with the wodden planet of monks or another script I am unaware of?
Nah, it shifted the focus to Hicks and Bishop and took place on a pair of space stations. There was a lot of unfortunate gene-splicing stuff, and the Soviet vs US in space element dated it some, but I liked where it took the characters. I still think it should have been revised beyond a first draft.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Space Sweeper on May 11, 2011, 02:27:50 AM
Quote from: TheMonolith on May 11, 2011, 02:23:06 AM
Was that the one with the wodden planet of monks or another script I am unaware of?
That was the Vincent Ward/John Fasano script.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Pn2501 on May 11, 2011, 02:29:11 AM
I like Gibson bu that script was terrible, out of all the scripts the one we got was the least offensive.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: TheMonolith on May 11, 2011, 02:31:03 AM
Quote from: Sharp Sticks on May 11, 2011, 02:27:16 AM
Quote from: TheMonolith on May 11, 2011, 02:23:06 AM
Was that the one with the wodden planet of monks or another script I am unaware of?
Nah, it shifted the focus to Hicks and Bishop and took place on a pair of space stations. There was a lot of unfortunate gene-splicing stuff, and the Soviet vs US in space element dated it some, but I liked where it took the characters. I still think it should have been revised beyond a first draft.
Muy interesante.

Quote from: Space Sweeper on May 11, 2011, 02:27:50 AM
That was the Vincent Ward/John Fasano script.
Only other script I am aware of. All I know is from the Quadrilogy set. Don't do a lot of surfing from near cannon and don't have the Blue Ray set yet.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Space Sweeper on May 11, 2011, 02:34:19 AM
For future reading:
http://www.awesomefilm.com/script/Alien3.txt (http://www.awesomefilm.com/script/Alien3.txt)

Personally, it's my favorite of the bunch.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on May 11, 2011, 02:49:40 AM
QuoteOnly other script I am aware of. All I know is from the Quadrilogy set. Don't do a lot of surfing from near cannon and don't have the Blue Ray set yet.

There's also the Twohy and Red script.

Red's is easily the worst.

Gibson's Anchorpoint script has lots of lameness too.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: keylight-di on May 11, 2011, 07:33:13 AM
Okay... I get it... The point of all of you. I guess, I shouldn't even try.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Pn2501 on May 11, 2011, 07:37:39 AM
Quote from: SM on May 11, 2011, 02:49:40 AM
QuoteOnly other script I am aware of. All I know is from the Quadrilogy set. Don't do a lot of surfing from near cannon and don't have the Blue Ray set yet.

There's also the Twohy and Red script.

Red's is easily the worst.

Gibson's Anchorpoint script has lots of lameness too.

Reds script bears a similarity to a Brothers Strause movie we all love to hate.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: TheMonolith on May 11, 2011, 12:33:15 PM
Quote from: keylight-di on May 11, 2011, 07:33:13 AM
Okay... I get it... The point of all of you. I guess, I shouldn't even try.
I like Alien 3 too.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flocal-static0.forum-files.fobby.net%2Fforum_attachments%2F0018%2F8630%2Fi_was_frozen_today.PNG&hash=9c3fede500b7ce1f6141957f9766c862234669da)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: keylight-di on May 11, 2011, 12:56:23 PM
Quote from: TheMonolith on May 11, 2011, 12:33:15 PM
Quote from: keylight-di on May 11, 2011, 07:33:13 AM
Okay... I get it... The point of all of you. I guess, I shouldn't even try.
I like Alien 3 too.
http://local-static0.forum-files.fobby.net/forum_attachments/0018/8630/i_was_frozen_today.PNG

Good to know. :)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: bov930527 on May 11, 2011, 04:29:51 PM
Well... I am going to try and put some logic and solve the unsolvable.

First off, the real (as in "real life") reason to why the egg got on that ship is bad script writing combined with lust for money to make an unnacessary sequel.

Now, the following is PURELY fan fiction (since I have not read the novelization nor comics).

a) Burke knew coordinates of the derelict, meaning he knew exactly where the eggs were (which is clearly shown when Ripley occuses him of sending colonists to find it).

How much time passes between that marines arrive to the colony and Hudson finding colonists? Or put it this way, how much time passes between Ripley finds Newt and Hudson locates colonists on the map? Simple as it is: we do not know. It may have been an hour, but for all that is shown in the movie, it could be 48 hours (that is a bit overexaggerated, but you get my point). The flight time that Bishop mentions from Sulaco to the colony is approximately 35 minutes (I do not know if that is exact because I do not remember all his lines in the film out of the top of my head).

Meaning, that Burke would need about an hour and a half to go to the derelict, pick up eggs, fly the first dropship (remember now, it is not destroyed yet!), get back and return to Operations as if nothing had happen. We continue with this hypothesis and try to clear out the blanks to make it a plausible theory.

b) Burke could most likely not do all those things himself, he would most probably need help. But who says that for example if he would come to Spunkmeyer and Drake and sad "Hey guys, wanna earn couple of billion dollars? It is easy, we go to this place, we pick up an egg, transport it to Sulaco, leave it there unnoticed. When we get back to Earth we will share the money, just us 3. And the best part of all, no one gets hurt.", who says that they would react in the same way as Ripley did and turn him down. I would most likely think a couple of guys like them would answer "Sure, why not." Especially since they do not know what threat xenomorphs possess due to the fact that they have not even encountered them yet.

So they all go to the derelict, they manage to pick up one or a couple of eggs (depending on wether you believe in "twin" theory of one egg been able to hold two facehuggers) and lets just think they are skilled enough to prevent accidents and do not awake any other eggs. They put it/them in a bag (or whatever) and they tie it up very hard so that even if the egg(s) open the facehugger(s) wont be able to get out of the bag. They then transport this cargo to Sulaco, safely, no rush (as Hudson is still looking for survivors in Operations).

c) When they are on the ship Burke says to the others to wait on the dropship while he transports the eggs and hides it somewhere on the ship. For some reason he chooses to attach it/them to a wall somewhere near cryotubes in a 45 degree angle and somehow succeeds doing so. At this point the egg is still in a bag so that even if a facehugger gets out it possesses no threat. But the minute Burke gets out the surface of the egg somehow "eats" through the part of the egg between the wall and the egg itself, perhaps by realising a weak acid that also works as glue. The bag then slips off of the egg while the egg remains on the wall (due to the glue effect of the acid). He then returns to the dropship that flies them back to the colony. He reprograms Sulaco to not show any signs of the egg been omboard, hence why ripley did not knew about it in the end.

After encountering xenomorphs marines understand what dangerous species these are and would no longer support the transport of an alien egg back to Earth even for the money. The only problem is that the marines that knew of an alien been omboard the Sulaco die during the first battle. So only Burke knows...

d) After understanding the physiology of xenomorphs Burke realizes that it would save a whole lot to not need to find a body for the facehugger to jump on back on Earth. So he decides to try and make Ripley and Newt impregnated. He fails, miserably...

...

This is pretty much the only true logical explanation I can see that does not contradict movie in any direct way. I know this assumption is not flawless and needs improvement, but it makes some sense to me.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Space Sweeper on May 11, 2011, 04:38:01 PM
Quote from: bov930527 on May 11, 2011, 04:29:51 PM
billion
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/avatars/humans/aliens-hudson02.jpg)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: chupacabras acheronsis on May 11, 2011, 05:57:20 PM
a million millions.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Bad Replicant on May 11, 2011, 09:28:09 PM
I like to picture the egg appearing out of thin air with a cartoonish 'pop' sound.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: bov930527 on May 11, 2011, 09:34:20 PM
Quote from: Walk Evil Talk on May 11, 2011, 09:28:09 PM
I like to picture the egg appearing out of thin air with a cartoonish 'pop' sound.

Imagining that actually made me chuckle a little  :D
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on May 11, 2011, 11:24:02 PM
Quote from: keylight-di on May 11, 2011, 07:33:13 AM
Okay... I get it... The point of all of you. I guess, I shouldn't even try.

The what now?  ???

QuoteHow much time passes between that marines arrive to the colony and Hudson finding colonists? Or put it this way, how much time passes between Ripley finds Newt and Hudson locates colonists on the map? Simple as it is: we do not know.

Yes we do.  It's about 4 hours.

QuoteThe flight time that Bishop mentions from Sulaco to the colony is approximately 35 minutes (I do not know if that is exact because I do not remember all his lines in the film out of the top of my head).


50 minutes.  Not 35.

QuoteMeaning, that Burke would need about an hour and a half to go to the derelict, pick up eggs, fly the first dropship (remember now, it is not destroyed yet!), get back and return to Operations as if nothing had happen. We continue with this hypothesis and try to clear out the blanks to make it a plausible theory.


A few more things...

Burke had no jurisdiction over the marines.
Spunkmeyer is shown to be delivering stuff to Bishop from the dropship and not flying to the Derelict prior to Hudson finding the colonists.
No mention is made of Drake and Spunkmeyer's absence for at least 3 hours by any of the other marines.
How did they just happen to just stroll in and steal an egg from the Derelict when people who go into the Derelict usually leave with one of their number with a hugger attached to it's face?
Why did Burke order Bishop to keep the live huggers if he already had an egg?
Why did Burke try to infect Ripley and Newt if he had an egg?

"only true logical explanation"

I think not.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: bov930527 on May 12, 2011, 12:21:29 AM
It is quiet interesting that every quetion you ask is thoroughly explained in the text, but okay, I will just copy myself.


Quote from: SM on May 11, 2011, 11:24:02 PM

QuoteHow much time passes between that marines arrive to the colony and Hudson finding colonists? Or put it this way, how much time passes between Ripley finds Newt and Hudson locates colonists on the map? Simple as it is: we do not know.

Yes we do.  It's about 4 hours.


Ohh, thats right, Hudson mentiones it (my bad). But still with a flight time been only 50 minutes to the Sulaco, 4 hours is more than enough.

Quote from: SM on May 11, 2011, 11:24:02 PM
A few more things...

Burke had no jurisdiction over the marines.

He had no jurisdiction over Ripley either and yet he managed to lure her to go with them to the planet in the first place. Tongue skills are much, much more dangerous than any jurisdiction my friend.

Quote from: SM on May 11, 2011, 11:24:02 PM
Spunkmeyer is shown to be delivering stuff to Bishop from the dropship and not flying to the Derelict prior to Hudson finding the colonists.

How long would it take to deliver that stuff? Like 10 minutes, 15 top. 3 hours 45 minutes to go...

Quote from: SM on May 11, 2011, 11:24:02 PM
No mention is made of Drake and Spunkmeyer's absence for at least 3 hours by any of the other marines.

If they would be taking a 3 hours long dump, who would really give a shit? Also, "Drake and Spunkmeyer" was just an example. It could be "Ferro and Wierzbowski" or "Spunkmeyer, Frost and Apone". 

Quote from: SM on May 11, 2011, 11:24:02 PM
How did they just happen to just stroll in and steal an egg from the Derelict when people who go into the Derelict usually leave with one of their number with a hugger attached to it's face?

They had luck. As you say "usually", not always.

Quote from: SM on May 11, 2011, 11:24:02 PM
Why did Burke order Bishop to keep the live huggers if he already had an egg?

He wanted the full set (egg, facehugger and an alien embryo).

Quote from: SM on May 11, 2011, 11:24:02 PM
Why did Burke try to infect Ripley and Newt if he had an egg?

He realized how illegal it would be to find a live body back on Earth and literally kill that person for the sake of this alien species. So he decided to take his chances in a place that could not be reached by the long arm of the law: LV-426 (especially with all the hell breaking loose). He would really gain a lot if he delievered all three. I mean, singlehandedly egg, facehugger and a live xenomorph, now that is "not bad for a human".
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on May 12, 2011, 12:50:08 AM
QuoteIt is quiet interesting that every quetion you ask is thoroughly explained in the text, but okay, I will just copy myself.


Not it's not - other than 'shit happens - just, like, because'.

QuoteOhh, thats right, Hudson mentiones it (my bad). But still with a flight time been only 50 minutes to the Sulaco, 4 hours is more than enough.


Hudson doesn't say it.  The mission time is on their monitors.

QuoteHe had no jurisdiction over Ripley either and yet he managed to lure her to go with them to the planet in the first place.

He offered her a contract.  Why would some marines pay any attention to a suit like Burke?

QuoteHow long would it take to deliver that stuff? Like 10 minutes, 15 top. 3 hours 45 minutes to go...

Depends on how much stuff he actually delivered.

QuoteIf they would be taking a 3 hours long dump, who would really give a shit? Also, "Drake and Spunkmeyer" was just an example. It could be "Ferro and Wierzbowski" or "Spunkmeyer, Frost and Apone".

Doesn't matter.  They would be missed - someone would "give a shit'.  Especially if they're only form of escape suddenly goes walkies.

QuoteThey had luck. As you say "usually", not always.

In this case usually = always.  How precisely are they going to stroll in and steal an egg without getting hugged?

As I said 'shit happens - just, like, because'.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: bov930527 on May 12, 2011, 01:21:41 AM
1. Im just so darrn sure that he said "I found them, took me couple of hours but i found them". I watched the youtube clip with all his lines and it wasnt there, but I just know he sad it at some point... Ohh well.
2.
Quote from: SM on May 12, 2011, 12:50:08 AM
He offered her a contract.  Why would some marines pay any attention to a suit like Burke?

Umm... Just, like, because?

But seriously, why would some scientists pay attention to a guy who says that gravity bends space-time continuum? Why would some people pay attention to a guy from Munick who says that jews should be exterminated from the face of the Earth? Why would some writers pay attention so someone who describes a life of a man on an undiscovered island. Why would anyone pay attention to anything anywhere really?

I understand your point, I do. But as you see it takes us nowhere and therefore I chose to ignore it.

3. We do not know how much stuff Spunkmeyer was transporting and I therefore chose to ignore that also.

4. "Missed"... yes I have issues with that also and I close my eyes upon the rest of marines having no idea where the first dropship really is.

5. I can tell you exectly how they are going to stroll in and steal an egg without geting hugged.
They went in, stole an egg and did not get facehugged. Thats how precisely.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: TheMonolith on May 12, 2011, 01:26:56 AM
It's an interesting theory. By why would they stick it to the ceiling and not put it on ice?
If Ferro hadn't crashed, they would have gone up there, found the egg and Burke would probably have been chucked out the airlock.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on May 12, 2011, 01:29:41 AM
QuoteBut seriously, why would some scientists pay attention to a guy who says that gravity bends space-time continuum?

Because they're scientists and the guy can show the maths to back it up.

QuoteWhy would some people pay attention to a guy from Munick who says that jews should be exterminated from the face of the Earth?

Because people in desperate times feel better when they have a convenient target to blame for the desperate times.
(I'm guessing you're talking about Hitler who was from Austria rather than Munick(sic).)

QuoteWhy would some writers pay attention so someone who describes a life of a man on an undiscovered island.

'Cos it's a good read.

In a nutshell - you haven't answered the question, simply by asking more questions.

Quote5. I can tell you exectly how they are going to stroll in and steal an egg without geting hugged.
They went in, stole an egg and did not get facehugged. Thats how precisely.

Which again brings us back to "like, because".

If you want to formulate the "only true logical explanation" you need some - indeed any - evidence to hang it on.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: bov930527 on May 12, 2011, 02:06:17 AM
@ SM:

Fine...

Marines would listen to Burke because he comes with the same thing he comes to Ripley later in the film with. He tells them they will be rich and most military enlisted personnel have pretty low salaries in comparement to the officer staff, so money would definetely work as a lure since human civilization has proven that humans do intend to get greedy. He also claims that they will be heroes, back on Earth, that thanks to these species they will help find cure for cancer and all possible things. He ensures them no one would get hurt, since they will only transport the egg and nothing else (and that is eventually the only thing they do).

Concerning #5... I could literally write a post describing their every, every breath, every breath they take during the egg-stealing. But that would be like an entire chapter of a book and I am just too lazy to describe everything. Think of it like a very skilled sniper. How do you logically explain that he manages to hit all the targets. You can start off describing his mental state, his childhood, then we can move on to technical issues like the wind speed, the angle of the rifle, etc.. But thats just too time consuming, especially when you know that the side you are arguing with is aware of the existing logic behind the argument. Explaining would simply be... meaningless.

How can I possibly provide evidence for something that is not in the film? Because that is what you are asking me to do. To proof existence of something that does not exist. Its like saying "Voldemort does not exist unless you can proof it". How am I suppose to show you logic to define pure imagination? That is philosophy and people have been trying to do that for centuries so dont expect me to answer that question.

And that is what makes this explanation logical to me. It does not hang nor depend on any other logic shown by the film, whilst explanation with Queen does.

@TheMonolith:

I do not even know if they have ice on Sulaco  :-\. As I said, this theory is a very long way from foolproof. If you have a creative mind, feel free to fill up the missing parts  :D
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on May 12, 2011, 02:30:27 AM
QuoteFine...

Marines would listen to Burke because he comes with the same thing he comes to Ripley later in the film with. He tells them they will be rich and most military enlisted personnel have pretty low salaries in comparement to the officer staff, so money would definetely work as a lure since human civilization has proven that humans do intend to get greedy. He also claims that they will be heroes, back on Earth, that thanks to these species they will help find cure for cancer and all possible things. He ensures them no one would get hurt, since they will only transport the egg and nothing else (and that is eventually the only thing they do).

Money could indeed be a lure.  Glory not so much.  However, they're shown to be a fairly tight-knit bunch and I can't picture one or a few betraying the others.  Burke would be better off trying to get Gorman on side since he's an outsider too.

QuoteConcerning #5... I could literally write a post describing their every, every breath, every breath they take during the egg-stealing. But that would be like an entire chapter of a book and I am just too lazy to describe everything. Think of it like a very skilled sniper. How do you logically explain that he manages to hit all the targets. You can start off describing his mental state, his childhood, then we can move on to technical issues like the wind speed, the angle of the rifle, etc.. But thats just too time consuming, especially when you know that the side you are arguing with is aware of the existing logic behind the argument. Explaining would simply be... meaningless.

Rubbish.  All you need to is concoct a scenario where a bunch of dudes can steal an Alien egg without getting facehugged that's halfway believable.  All that technical stuff is rubbish.  In terms of displaying it in a film with the sniper example - no one gives a shit how.  We just need to see that he's a good sniper.

QuoteHow can I possibly provide evidence for something that is not in the film? Because that is what you are asking me to do. To proof existence of something that does not exist. Its like saying "Voldemort does not exist unless you can proof it". How am I suppose to show you logic to define pure imagination? That is philosophy and people have been trying to do that for centuries so dont expect me to answer that question.

Again, rubbish.  When dealing with something like this, you just need to point to stuff in the film that can support your hypothesis.  All you've done is use Burke, which is obviously valid, to come up with something utterly unbelievable.

QuoteAnd that is what makes this explanation logical to me.

Even though it's utterly devoid of logic.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Kimarhi on May 12, 2011, 02:35:14 AM
Active duty military personnel cannot take money that isn't given to them in their salaries by the government.  Its illegal.  Its why the Bin Laden killing SEAL isn't getting a cent of that bounty.  It's why an army intelligence collector can't come home after his 9 hours on base and put another two or three hours in at a defense agency and triple his weekly income.

WY could offer the Marines money illegally, but they'd better hope they didn't get caught by their earth government.  Obviously the said government has pull, or there would be no need for the cloak and dagger stuff in the first place.  WY would just do what it wanted.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on May 12, 2011, 02:37:45 AM
QuoteWY could offer the Marines money illegally, but they'd better hope they didn't get caught by their earth government.

Particularly since everything is no doubt being recorded.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Kimarhi on May 12, 2011, 02:40:16 AM
It'd be pretty suspicious if every marine had time un accounted for on his mission cams.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: bobby brown on May 12, 2011, 12:34:03 PM
Quote from: bov930527 on May 11, 2011, 09:34:20 PM
Quote from: Walk Evil Talk on May 11, 2011, 09:28:09 PM
I like to picture the egg appearing out of thin air with a cartoonish 'pop' sound.

Imagining that actually made me chuckle a little  :D


;D :D
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Jun 01, 2011, 06:48:47 AM
My Take:

1. Queen hitchs a ride on the dropship - she has a facehugger with her at the time that came with her from the nest.  This is a normal facehugger.

2. Queen lays an egg on the dropship en route to the sulaco.

3. During the fight between Ripley and the Queen, the face hugger drags the egg away through instinct "don't be where your enemies expect you to be"

4. After they are in hypersleep, the egg hatchs and we now have two facehuggers.  One attempts to get Newt and fails cutting itself on the glass causing it to bleed and cause the fire.  The other (the one just hatched) gets Ripley.

5. After they crash land, the other facehugger then gets the dog.


A super facehugger can account for the two aliens (getting Ripley and the dog) but a superface huger doesn't explain the location of the egg on the Sulaco.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jun 01, 2011, 06:55:13 AM
Except a normal facehugger got someone on the Sulaco and Spike - not a super hugger as seen in the SE (which didn't get a dog at all).
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Jun 01, 2011, 06:56:32 AM
huh?

To clarify I"m not going by the assembly cut.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jun 01, 2011, 07:03:57 AM
So you're not talking about the armoured super/Queen facehugger?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Jun 01, 2011, 07:05:01 AM
Sorry no I'm not.

My last comment about a super face hugger was saying why a superface hugger theory doesn't actually work.

In my theory listed above I'm talking soley about two normal facehuggers.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jun 01, 2011, 07:28:42 AM
Righto then.

Bishop only mentioning a singular Alien kinda undermines it through.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Ghostface on Jun 01, 2011, 07:35:41 AM
I think we just need to accept there are some plot holes in A3 and try not to think to hard about them.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Cap. Fitzgerald on Jun 01, 2011, 07:42:50 AM
 :laugh:
I wonder how many people have said that before in the many threads we've have here and the many discussions about it elsewhere on the net. And yet it goes on.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jun 01, 2011, 07:44:17 AM
Only teensy weensy plot holes you could drive an M-class star freighter through...
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Jun 01, 2011, 08:57:48 AM
Quote from: SM on Jun 01, 2011, 07:28:42 AM
Righto then.

Bishop only mentioning a singular Alien kinda undermines it through.

Says who?

Bishop never says that there was only ever one alien.

But even if you don't want to accept that how about something else he says "it's very dark here Ripley, I'm not what I used to be."
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Alien³ on Jun 01, 2011, 09:07:14 AM
Quote from: stephen on Jun 01, 2011, 08:57:48 AM
Quote from: SM on Jun 01, 2011, 07:28:42 AM
Righto then.

Bishop only mentioning a singular Alien kinda undermines it through.

Says who?

Bishop never says that there was only ever one alien.


"It was with us all the way." not "They were with us all the way."

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Valaquen on Jun 01, 2011, 10:08:33 AM
And: "Was there AN Alien onboard?" [singular]
Answer: "Yesss."

He'd clarify or correct her if there were more.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Omegamorph on Jun 01, 2011, 03:01:44 PM
The filmmakers obviously didn't really put much thought into it (they just went over and said 'hey, what if Ripley had a Queen inside her?'), as practically zero thought was put into the continuity and logic of the (though cool looking) opening sequence, so it all comes up to what one thinks of it. I've always thought that the Hugger in A3 could impregnate more than one host. Notice how it is almost dormant - not quick or anywhere near the mobility we are used to when talking about facehuggers - when Spike barks at it.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Valaquen on Jun 01, 2011, 03:03:30 PM
100 years from now people will still be debating it...
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Omegamorph on Jun 01, 2011, 03:10:57 PM
Quote from: Valaquen on Jun 01, 2011, 03:03:30 PM
100 years from now people will still be debating it...
'Till 2179.
Maybe this will be a school subject, in the trivia section of history books. 'A question that boggled our ancestors 168 years ago - where did that egg in Alien3 come from?' Cue in article.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vakarian on Jun 01, 2011, 07:29:28 PM
My best guess is that the Queen planted it whist waiting for Ripley getting into her power loader or maybe when she was stowed in the dropship.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jun 01, 2011, 09:34:07 PM
Can't be the former because the Queen was chasing Newt and Bishop was watching her chase Newt.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Jun 01, 2011, 11:28:14 PM
As I said - if you don't want to accept the fact that Bishop never actually said there was only one alien have a look at what else he said:

"it's very dark here Ripley, I'm not what I used to be"

He was smashed to bits and he was obviosly having problems accessing the data.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Ac!d4Blood on Jun 01, 2011, 11:46:13 PM
I rather like the idea of Burke been an artificial person, they dont show how he died so maybe
somehow he manage to get an egg on the Sulaco.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jun 02, 2011, 12:12:12 AM
QuoteAs I said - if you don't want to accept the fact that Bishop never actually said there was only one alien have a look at what else he said:

"it's very dark here Ripley, I'm not what I used to be"

He was smashed to bits and he was obviosly having problems accessing the data.

No he wasn't.  He was trying to dodge Ripley's question about something moving around on the ship, because he knew she wouldn't like the answer.  When she presses him, he answers directly and without any room for debate.  And they always talk in the singular.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: TheMonolith on Jun 02, 2011, 12:14:51 AM
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Jun 01, 2011, 03:10:57 PM
Quote from: Valaquen on Jun 01, 2011, 03:03:30 PM
100 years from now people will still be debating it...
'Till 2179.
No.
In the year 7510.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: chupacabras acheronsis on Jun 02, 2011, 12:21:52 AM
If God's a-comin' he ought to make it by then
Maybe he'll look around himself and say
Guess it's time for the Judgement day
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Jun 02, 2011, 12:38:54 AM
Quote from: SM on Jun 02, 2011, 12:12:12 AM
QuoteAs I said - if you don't want to accept the fact that Bishop never actually said there was only one alien have a look at what else he said:

"it's very dark here Ripley, I'm not what I used to be"

He was smashed to bits and he was obviosly having problems accessing the data.

No he wasn't.  He was trying to dodge Ripley's question about something moving around on the ship, because he knew she wouldn't like the answer.  When she presses him, he answers directly and without any room for debate.  And they always talk in the singular.

Nonsense.  He was smashed to bits and specifically states that "he's not what he used to be".

There is nothing to indicate that he was trying to dodge Ripley's question.

Just because he is eventually able to answer her question doesn't mean that he didn't have problems accessing it.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jun 02, 2011, 01:12:45 AM
QuoteThere is nothing to indicate that he was trying to dodge Ripley's question.


Except for the fact that he displays no actual difficulty in accessing anything from the flight recorder.

Ripley asks him if he can access the data.  - "No problem".  He instantly links in, instantly tells her her about the fire, and where it was.  Then when she asks him about something moving around, he stalls trying not to give her bad news.  When she presses he tells her, not only was something moving around - it was an Alien, it was with them in the EEV as well, and the Company knows all about it too.

But, you expect us to believe he knew all this - but didn't bother to correct himself with "Oh sorry, Ripley - there was a couple of Aliens."
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Jun 02, 2011, 01:37:15 AM
I say again, just because he could actually access the data is no indication that it wasn't difficult.

Given that he expressly states that it was difficult is a clue.

I completely understand that your statement of events is likely, and quite likely probable given the film makers intentions when they were actually making the film.

However, given that there is a plot hole (depending on how you want to look at it) I am trying to show how that a plot hole could be fixed.

So, taking on board your comments, I reiterate my stance.  That Bishop states quite clearly that he was having trouble accessing the data and this would fit in with my theory.

Yes I know mine is just a theory.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jun 02, 2011, 01:51:20 AM
Again, he says it to try and spare Ripley, and shows no actual signs of having trouble to access anything.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Jun 02, 2011, 01:54:01 AM
You've made an assumption that he says it to try to spare Ripley.

But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Frankly I don't see why its such a leap to think that Bishop actually was having difficulty (in relation to fixing the egg on sulaco plot hole).

Far less of a leap in my opinion then some other wild ass theories out there.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Inverse Effect on Jun 02, 2011, 05:21:49 AM
Okay finaly came back to this thread. So what have i missed? any conclusions?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Valaquen on Jun 02, 2011, 08:03:11 AM
Quote from: Guts on Jun 02, 2011, 05:21:49 AM
Okay finaly came back to this thread. So what have i missed? any conclusions?
Hell no!  :laugh:
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Inverse Effect on Jun 02, 2011, 08:51:45 AM
Okay then my responce is simple. Aren't we really thinking about this too much? I mean i really don't think we're ment to discuss this in this amount of detail. It was never designed that way.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jun 02, 2011, 09:08:30 AM
It was designed very poorly.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vakarian on Jun 02, 2011, 10:09:56 AM
I know this is an absolute long shot but, MIBEH...Burke wasn't killed by that nasty alien fella because he was an android like bishop (Would an alien even kill an android?) , got away found an egg and managed to get onto the dropship somehow and was killed by the queen or some shit. I know it's highly unlikely but I thought i'd throw it out there for the hell of it.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jun 02, 2011, 11:21:05 AM
Not so much 'highly unlikely' as 'entirely fantastical'.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Alien³ on Jun 02, 2011, 11:31:05 AM
Jonesy followed Ripley back to LV-426 and placed the egg on board the Sulaco.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F_y1USaJemzSs%2FTENwDCPxK8I%2FAAAAAAAADaw%2F4BSROMevp7c%2Fs1600%2FAlien.png&hash=b16e2fb7710edb6a11db36c03251ab57700d43fe)

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vakarian on Jun 02, 2011, 12:02:55 PM
Quote from: Alien³ on Jun 02, 2011, 11:31:05 AM
Jonesy followed Ripley back to LV-426 and placed the egg on board the Sulaco.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_y1USaJemzSs/TENwDCPxK8I/AAAAAAAADaw/4BSROMevp7c/s1600/Alien.png

That's the best theory yet i must say.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: MrSpaceJockey on Jun 02, 2011, 10:46:03 PM
Quote from: Alien³ on Jun 02, 2011, 11:31:05 AM
Jonesy followed Ripley back to LV-426 and placed the egg on board the Sulaco.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_y1USaJemzSs/TENwDCPxK8I/AAAAAAAADaw/4BSROMevp7c/s1600/Alien.png



That little shit-head...
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Sgt. Apone on Jun 03, 2011, 02:28:03 AM
Quote from: Alien³ on Jun 02, 2011, 11:31:05 AM
Jonesy followed Ripley back to LV-426 and placed the egg on board the Sulaco.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_y1USaJemzSs/TENwDCPxK8I/AAAAAAAADaw/4BSROMevp7c/s1600/Alien.png
[/quote

:D But he has no hands. And, it would face hug him.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: MrSpaceJockey on Jun 03, 2011, 02:30:40 AM
Serves the bastard right. The cat-alien will be a boss for the upcoming Aliens: Colonial Marines game.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: CainsSon on Jun 03, 2011, 05:49:31 AM
Simple. During and after the Nostromo's encounter in ALIEN there are those in the Company, who knew about the alien, lets call those people IN THE KNOW, because it is too valuable a thing to tell everyone who works for you. The information of how to locate and cofirm Alien life alone is priceless. So, after the Nostromo disappears, those IN THE KNOW, need a new plan. Who knows what it is or was, all we know is 57 years later, there is this 'Shake and bake' colony there....Terraforming. Who knows why. maybe those IN THE KNOW were setting them up slowly, maybe be not, but they are there and so is the Derelict... Point is, it is absurd to just imagine that the Comapny gave up and kept quiet about the Derelict. Even if they couldnt aford to do something, they could have sold the information for a fortune. LSS...The Company did not give up after the NOSTROMO, they've been somehow pursuing this all along and we dont know how much. So even if they never got to THE DERELICT again, there are those IN THE KNOW, who are sitting on this GOLDEN TICKET and its more than worth killing for a second time.
So now Ripley is found, how? Why? Why did it take so long? Surely they looked for her?
So she tells this guy Burke and other Company people who ARE NOT IN THE KNOW and it gets back to the Company. Or maybe they didnt find her by accident. Point is, those IN THE KNOW, know whats going on. Now obviously since the information alone is so valuable, people like BURKE are not IN THE KNOW. Otherwise, he could just sell the information, so suddenly this guy Burke says this and that and they lose contact with the Colony (A colony whose location on LV426 is suspicious given that those IN THE KNOW would put 2 and 2 together).
Oh Shit! They are sending in MARINES! Now, our GOLDEN TICKET is gonna be lost! So thinks, those IN THE KNOW.
LSS, those Company cats IN THE KNOW were up shit's creek. Of course they would want to stop any and all mission to Hadley's Hope but now...Or maybe if they cant stop it, they can compromise it. Maybe they had to try and get to that derelict before the Marines found out about it... Maybe they had to sabotage the Marines mission... Anyone pickin up what I'm puttin down? Those IN THE KNOW were around. Maybe they were characters we saw, maybe they were one step ahead or behind...but they got that egg on that ship. Possibly after RIpley was already in hypersleep.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jun 03, 2011, 06:01:16 AM
QuotePoint is, it is absurd to just imagine that the Comapny gave up and kept quiet about the Derelict.

And yet, that's precisely what they did.  Good idea too, to bury anything remotely concerning special orders stating the expendibility of your employees.

Quote[Surely they looked for her?

Why?  As far as anyone knew the Nostromo was simply lost in space.  How are they going to search 37 LY of space even if they knew where to look?

QuotePoint is, those IN THE KNOW, know whats going on.

Point is, those IN THE KNOW, are now either retired or dead.

QuoteAnyone pickin up what I'm puttin down?

Not at all.

Quotebut they got that egg on that ship. Possibly after RIpley was already in hypersleep.

What a moronic thing to do.  For people who are supposedly in the know, they really don't know very much.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on Jun 03, 2011, 06:06:17 AM
Quote from: CainsSon on Jun 03, 2011, 05:49:31 AM
Simple. During and after the Nostromo's encounter in ALIEN there are those in the Company, who knew about the alien, lets call those people IN THE KNOW, because it is too valuable a thing to tell everyone who works for you.

This part I agree with, since through numerous threads and facts we already established it was an off the book thing made by one or few individuals


QuoteThe information of how to locate and cofirm Alien life alone is priceless. So, after the Nostromo disappears, those IN THE KNOW, need a new plan. Who knows what it is or was, all we know is 57 years later, there is this 'Shake and bake' colony there....Terraforming. Who knows why. maybe those IN THE KNOW were setting them up slowly, maybe be not, but they are there and so is the Derelict... Point is, it is absurd to just imagine that the Comapny gave up and kept quiet about the Derelict.

Its not absurd at all. Once Nostromo dissapears, no suit wants to be prosecuted for conspiracy and dissapearance and possible deaths of an entire crew, nevermind trying to pass the quarantine and patent laws by acquiring aliens. People IN THE KNOW would stay low and pray no one ever ties all this to them, an illegal plan that went terribly wrong and an order planted which made clear the life of the crew didnt count



QuoteSo she tells this guy Burke and other Company people who ARE NOT IN THE KNOW and it gets back to the Company. Or maybe they didnt find her by accident. Point is, those IN THE KNOW, know whats going on. Now obviously since the information alone is so valuable, people like BURKE are not IN THE KNOW.

Burke knows nothing and the movie made it clear. The people IN THE KNOW by that point are either dead or out of the office. Burke was the only one who gave at least some credibility to what Ripley was saying. Maybe not credibility, but decided to ask some colony hicks to check out the place where Ripley said the derelict was. He acted alone


QuoteThose IN THE KNOW were around. Maybe they were characters we saw, maybe they were one step ahead or behind...but they got that egg on that ship. Possibly after RIpley was already in hypersleep.

It makes no sense for someone to haunt Ripley and not care about the alien. Youre basically saying someone followed Sulaco and docked in the bay and planted the egg. Makes no sense whatsoever on many, many levels
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Xenoborg on Jun 04, 2011, 02:42:04 PM
Quote from: I Shadow I on Jun 02, 2011, 10:09:56 AM
I know this is an absolute long shot but, MIBEH...Burke wasn't killed by that nasty alien fella because he was an android like bishop (Would an alien even kill an android?) , got away found an egg and managed to get onto the dropship somehow and was killed by the queen or some shit. I know it's highly unlikely but I thought i'd throw it out there for the hell of it.

Burke was taken by the Alien to be harvested as a host.
In a deleted scene, we see Ripley confronting a cocooned Burk, as he pleaded to her for rescue, saying,"It's inside me."; citing he was very much human and was impregnated.

I say, it was the Queen who laid an egg as an action to survive, since she was alone on the ship.
But it may have been Bishop too.

He would have sneaked away with the ship to a location with eggs around, while Ripley went to rescue Rebecca.
Also, androids are to follow whatever a human instructs them to.
He might have again, contacted the Company through the drop-ship, who insisted for a sample of the life-form on the rock.
He hid the egg in the corner. The egg did not trigger-open since he was an android.

But then we had Hicks on-board. A face-hugger would have easily impregnated Hicks while he was unconscious, while the others were confronting the Queen.
Heck, it would have already done the job while Bishop was flying the ship back to Ripley.

Well that didn't happen, so I guess the Queen laid the egg, on the way back to the Sulaco. While everyone was inside checking up on Hicks, she silently hid the egg.
Also, the egg appears to be small in size, as seen in A3, compared to the regular ones. It was an egg rushed out, for safety.

It had the Queen Facehugger.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vakarian on Jun 04, 2011, 03:29:43 PM
Yeah, But that never made it into any of the cuts, so would it still be considered canon?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Jun 04, 2011, 05:45:46 PM
That last part was a decent theory, the queen slipping quietly from the dropship as the gang is still inside and sticking an egg somewhere.  Or maybe the excitement of combat caused one to poop out during her exertions, hence the bizarre angle we see the egg at in A3.

I think she palmed one and stuck it down under the grill while chasing Newt, and was all "yall slap this egg right here, and you won't see it cause I'm a bad mother, how you like that? Bladow."
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Xenoborg on Jun 04, 2011, 07:39:03 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn3.knowyourmeme.com%2Fi%2F000%2F101%2F781%2Foriginal%2FY0UJC.png&hash=fd483d728c15bdaf7046a410e39d9b69e3867579)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jun 04, 2011, 10:47:52 PM
QuoteHe might have again, contacted the Company through the drop-ship, who insisted for a sample of the life-form on the rock.

There's no IM from LV-426 to the Company.

QuoteAlso, the egg appears to be small in size, as seen in A3, compared to the regular ones.

There's no basis for this because there's no point of reference.  It could be bigger than a normal egg for all we know.  Why people say it's smaller baffles me.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Xenoborg on Jun 04, 2011, 10:58:06 PM
QuoteThere's no IM from LV-426 to the Company.

Well WY sent those colonists there. Aliens sneeze on the colonists and then the Company sends a rescue mission to LV-426, obviously after receiving some sort of messages from the colony.
Plus, I'm talking about the drop-ship, which has a transmitter and Bishop can contact the Company through it.

Quote
There's no basis for this because there's no point of reference.  It could be bigger than a normal egg for all we know.  Why people say it's smaller baffles me.

It's smaller. We have a movie made on it right after the first two movies.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jun 04, 2011, 11:12:43 PM
Quote from: Greedy Fat Xenoborg on Jun 04, 2011, 10:58:06 PM
QuoteThere's no IM from LV-426 to the Company.

Well WY sent those colonists there. Aliens sneeze on the colonists and then the Company sends a rescue mission to LV-426, obviously after receiving some sort of messages from the colony.
Plus, I'm talking about the drop-ship, which has a transmitter and Bishop can contact the Company through it.

Quote
There's no basis for this because there's no point of reference.  It could be bigger than a normal egg for all we know.  Why people say it's smaller baffles me.

It's smaller. We have a movie made on it right after the first two movies.

1. Round trip for a message is two weeks.

2. Where's your evidence that it's smaller?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Pn2501 on Jun 04, 2011, 11:24:52 PM
Burke an gorman suggest the lost contact meaning they received no comunication, so they essentially had no idea what happened.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vakarian on Jun 05, 2011, 03:13:56 AM
Quote from: SM on Jun 04, 2011, 11:12:43 PM
Quote from: Greedy Fat Xenoborg on Jun 04, 2011, 10:58:06 PM
QuoteThere's no IM from LV-426 to the Company.

Well WY sent those colonists there. Aliens sneeze on the colonists and then the Company sends a rescue mission to LV-426, obviously after receiving some sort of messages from the colony.
Plus, I'm talking about the drop-ship, which has a transmitter and Bishop can contact the Company through it.

Quote
There's no basis for this because there's no point of reference.  It could be bigger than a normal egg for all we know.  Why people say it's smaller baffles me.

It's smaller. We have a movie made on it right after the first two movies.

1. Round trip for a message is two weeks.

2. Where's your evidence that it's smaller?

If you look here, the egg does look considerably smaller compared to the one's found in Aliens.

Alien 3

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-CT1hk7dGjKU%2FTbC7SPF_jjI%2FAAAAAAAAACI%2Fnln3yYhnaOU%2Fs1600%2Falien%2B3%2Begg.bmp&hash=542a831b1358c514b09612631338109e63779559)

Aliens

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alicia-logic.com%2Fcapsimages%2Fa_148NewtRipleyNest.jpg&hash=2ed51081c41b5907d04f47e0fa7696dc41f6829e)


Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jun 05, 2011, 03:28:11 AM
Again - where's the point of reference in the Aien3 still?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vakarian on Jun 05, 2011, 03:29:05 AM
Quote from: SM on Jun 05, 2011, 03:28:11 AM
Again - where's the point of reference in the Aien3 still?

I Don't get what you mean by "Point of reference."

I can be pretty sure if you were to show those two pictures to people, they would say the one in Alien 3 was somewhat smaller than the eggs in the other picture.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jun 05, 2011, 03:38:13 AM
And they'd be basing that on nothing.

In the Aliens still Ripley is standing right next to them so it's easy to judge their size.

In the Alien3 still there's nothing.  We have no idea where in the ship we are, how big the SULACO writing is, how big those strut things are.  Nothing on which to judge if the egg is bigger, smaller or precisely the same size as any other egg.  And since we have nothing, there's no reason to believe it's any different to previous eggs.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vakarian on Jun 05, 2011, 03:40:10 AM
Quote from: SM on Jun 05, 2011, 03:38:13 AM
And they'd be basing that on nothing.

In the Aliens still Ripley is standing right next to them so it's easy to judge their size.

In the Alien3 still there's nothing.  We have no idea where in the ship we are, how big the SULACO writing is, how big those strut things are.  Nothing on which to judge if the egg is bigger, smaller or precisely the same size as any other egg.  And since we have nothing, there's no reason to believe it's any different to previous eggs.

Touche.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: chupacabras acheronsis on Jun 05, 2011, 04:11:25 AM
that appears to be structural supports like we saw near the marine cryotubes in aliens, but i could be mistaken.

they weren't that big.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vitriol on Jun 05, 2011, 04:18:15 AM
It laid the egg in the sub-flooring under the grates as Ripley was prepping the cargo loader. Move on.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Sharp Sticks on Jun 05, 2011, 04:28:41 AM
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Jun 05, 2011, 04:11:25 AM
that appears to be structural supports like we saw near the marine cryotubes in aliens, but i could be mistaken.

they weren't that big.

No structural supports anything like that on the cryotubes, although that was my initial thought too.

Quote from: Vitriol on Jun 05, 2011, 04:18:15 AM
It laid the egg in the sub-flooring under the grates as Ripley was prepping the cargo loader. Move on.

Sub-flooring doesn't look anything like that either. And Newt - or Bishop - would have seen.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jun 05, 2011, 06:43:13 AM
That and it never had time.  It turned from Ripley, then went after Newt - while Bishop was watching.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Xenoborg on Jun 05, 2011, 10:56:05 AM
I went around looking at life-sized sculptures of the Eggs, on Google.
They said they were 3 feet in size.

The Alien3-egg appears to be 1/2 the size of a normal egg.
The background in Alien3 appears to be some kind of a corridor, or strikingly familiar to the shelves where the Marines kept their Pulse Rifles.
Have a look:

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi54.tinypic.com%2Fv7ujcm.jpg&hash=7d1b8a50d659eb5d8175b568a5a7de9f5d029981)
Aliens

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi56.tinypic.com%2F2eefv38.jpg&hash=338fc0057d1551563221dd252222d3273f2ff1fc)
Alien³
Though, I admit they don't look that familiar; it's because David Fincher loved slapping the previous directors and films in the face. He even changed the 'USS SULACO' on the ship from black to shiny gold.
That place is really too small for a 3ft Alien egg to fit.
So I say it's small.  :-X
Plus, a 3ft egg with resin/stuff inside, with it's weight and the weight of a facehugger, might not be able to stick to the corner of the wall, like that, unless it's small or the resin-base that the Queen applied is made of super adhesive contents.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Space Sweeper on Jun 05, 2011, 11:21:55 AM
No explanation shown or mentioned in the movie= no explanation at all.

Come on guys. Theories are pointless, especially all these years later.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Valaquen on Jun 05, 2011, 01:50:19 PM
Quote from: Greedy Fat Xenoborg on Jun 05, 2011, 10:56:05 AM
I went around looking at life-sized sculptures of the Eggs, on Google.
They said they were 3 feet in size.

The Alien3-egg appears to be 1/2 the size of a normal egg.
The background in Alien3 appears to be some kind of a corridor, or strikingly familiar to the shelves where the Marines kept their Pulse Rifles.
Have a look:

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi54.tinypic.com%2Fv7ujcm.jpg&hash=7d1b8a50d659eb5d8175b568a5a7de9f5d029981)
Aliens

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi56.tinypic.com%2F2eefv38.jpg&hash=338fc0057d1551563221dd252222d3273f2ff1fc)
Alien³
Though, I admit they don't look that familiar; it's because David Fincher loved slapping the previous directors and films in the face. He even changed the 'USS SULACO' on the ship from black to shiny gold.
That place is really too small for a 3ft Alien egg to fit.
So I say it's small.  :-X
Plus, a 3ft egg with resin/stuff inside, with it's weight and the weight of a facehugger, might not be able to stick to the corner of the wall, like that, unless it's small or the resin-base that the Queen applied is made of super adhesive contents.
The egg isn't in the same location as the weapons - and how did the Queen get there? The answer is, the Queen didn't lay an egg, she had no opportunity to, she never left the hanger, etc. The egg is only there because FOX insisted on an Alien movie featuring Ripley and the only way it occured to them to have this happen was to stick an egg on board - despite any logic [practically every used and unused Alien III script had magic eggs and/or magic Aliens]. The egg's there because the script says so. That's as complete and unsatisfactory as the answer will ever get. All we're doing by obsessing is perpetuating our own exasperation with the movie. :-\
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Omegamorph on Jun 05, 2011, 01:51:03 PM
The Eggs have tendrils on their bases.
They can MOVE.
I always said it, mahn.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: chupacabras acheronsis on Jun 05, 2011, 01:55:06 PM
aren't those roots they feed with?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Omegamorph on Jun 05, 2011, 01:57:54 PM
They are both.

Cradily, man.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fenciclopedia.pokemonmillennium.net%2Fimages%2Fpokemon%2Fsprites_dp%2F346.png&hash=146e9a75c6c10076998d9792f3e1054a1a55e26d)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: chupacabras acheronsis on Jun 05, 2011, 01:59:25 PM
Radical, dude.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Omegamorph on Jun 05, 2011, 02:02:11 PM
They can retract their roots and use them as tentacles to move around like Octopi.
Maaaaan. I'm a genius.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Xenoborg on Jun 05, 2011, 03:32:56 PM
"The Alien3-egg was put there by the invisible Aliens known as "directors, producers and writers" as what they call a plot device."
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Kelgaard on Jun 05, 2011, 04:05:04 PM
Quote from: RagingDragon on Jun 04, 2011, 05:45:46 PM
I think she palmed one and stuck it down under the grill while chasing Newt in the dropship, and was all "yall slap this egg right here, and you won't see it cause I'm a bad mother, how you like that? Bladow."

This may be a little more likely. What u think? It was the only time the queen was alone.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Sharp Sticks on Jun 05, 2011, 04:25:13 PM
Quote from: kelgaard on Jun 05, 2011, 04:05:04 PM
Quote from: RagingDragon on Jun 04, 2011, 05:45:46 PM
I think she palmed one and stuck it down under the grill while chasing Newt in the dropship, and was all "yall slap this egg right here, and you won't see it cause I'm a bad mother, how you like that? Bladow."

This may be a little more likely. What u think? It was the only time the queen was alone.

So I guess she was on tiptoes while everyone was sitting around looking at the floor inside the dropship for five minutes?

The only theories that work are so mindbogglingly insane and insulting you don't want to think about them, and the rest don't work. The egg is never going to make sense, because it wasn't intended to.

These threads must die.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: chupacabras acheronsis on Jun 05, 2011, 04:51:15 PM
NEVER!

the day the pointless discussions about trivial and insignificant mysteries of popular media stop is the day the internet dies!
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Sharp Sticks on Jun 05, 2011, 04:52:46 PM
Then the internet must die!

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myfacewhen.net%2Fuploads%2F237-rageface.png&hash=2af02657008c2d13d9335801646840bc4b8ccd64)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Omegamorph on Jun 05, 2011, 04:54:12 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fart.ngfiles.com%2Fimages%2F8%2F51430_cd-i-ganon.gif&hash=919268fcdc656d2c240d2db6877f3ca748c5914e)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Sharp Sticks on Jun 05, 2011, 04:55:31 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foperatorchan.org%2Ft%2Farch%2Fsrc%2Ft228659_rageface.jpg&hash=f13b368c1e1e62c3470949f704659e1e5d6d330a)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Omegamorph on Jun 05, 2011, 05:04:23 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi852.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fab89%2FBodasz%2FGIFs%2FGanonLightingwmv.gif&hash=0d9754f62d1f636842f68417db05245bd9c0f383)

/Thread
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SpaceMarines on Jun 05, 2011, 05:07:04 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMkrk2MJYrg# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMkrk2MJYrg#)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jun 05, 2011, 09:25:35 PM
QuoteThe only theories that work are so mindbogglingly insane and insulting you don't want to think about them

How can they 'work' if they're insane and insulting?  Any theory that actually worked would be the exact opposite.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: CainsSon on Jun 06, 2011, 05:16:09 AM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jun 03, 2011, 06:06:17 AM
Quote from: CainsSon on Jun 03, 2011, 05:49:31 AM
Simple. During and after the Nostromo's encounter in ALIEN there are those in the Company, who knew about the alien, lets call those people IN THE KNOW, because it is too valuable a thing to tell everyone who works for you.

This part I agree with, since through numerous threads and facts we already established it was an off the book thing made by one or few individuals


QuoteThe information of how to locate and cofirm Alien life alone is priceless. So, after the Nostromo disappears, those IN THE KNOW, need a new plan. Who knows what it is or was, all we know is 57 years later, there is this 'Shake and bake' colony there....Terraforming. Who knows why. maybe those IN THE KNOW were setting them up slowly, maybe be not, but they are there and so is the Derelict... Point is, it is absurd to just imagine that the Comapny gave up and kept quiet about the Derelict.

Its not absurd at all. Once Nostromo dissapears, no suit wants to be prosecuted for conspiracy and dissapearance and possible deaths of an entire crew, nevermind trying to pass the quarantine and patent laws by acquiring aliens. People IN THE KNOW would stay low and pray no one ever ties all this to them, an illegal plan that went terribly wrong and an order planted which made clear the life of the crew didnt count



QuoteSo she tells this guy Burke and other Company people who ARE NOT IN THE KNOW and it gets back to the Company. Or maybe they didnt find her by accident. Point is, those IN THE KNOW, know whats going on. Now obviously since the information alone is so valuable, people like BURKE are not IN THE KNOW.

Burke knows nothing and the movie made it clear. The people IN THE KNOW by that point are either dead or out of the office. Burke was the only one who gave at least some credibility to what Ripley was saying. Maybe not credibility, but decided to ask some colony hicks to check out the place where Ripley said the derelict was. He acted alone


QuoteThose IN THE KNOW were around. Maybe they were characters we saw, maybe they were one step ahead or behind...but they got that egg on that ship. Possibly after RIpley was already in hypersleep.

It makes no sense for someone to haunt Ripley and not care about the alien. Youre basically saying someone followed Sulaco and docked in the bay and planted the egg. Makes no sense whatsoever on many, many levels

First, Im not trying to make anyone feel stupid. I'm just maybe plagued by a realism that gives way to cynicism, especially when it concerns Capitalism. Thing is, Im really not the first to decifer that cynical representation of Capitalism as a big part of the Alien franchise. So maybe, I'm just seeing something logical to that cynicism that others less fixated on Capitalist corruption would easily ignore. Plus I admit that the way these things are implied in subtext is one of the most brilliant things about this series and is the one constant in the subtext throughout all 4 films,...

There must be some mis-communication. I'm not SAYING anything concrete. I'm not saying BURKE knew anything at all. I'm saying he didn't know. No one in ALIENS knew, at least, no one had too. It is absurd to think anyone but those who NEEDED to KNOW, EVER KNEW and that there was any paper trail or reason for them to need to wipe their hands of any of it. First off, they could just claim negligence, if it did come up. How could they have known what the Alien was gonna do to them? Second, they were contracted to investigate. Third, why would anyone put the crew expendable thing in print?! That would be next to retarded. It's like writing a letter detailing the way you are willing to kill the rest of your team if you lose a patent. So furthermore, I'm saying there likely was nothing for them to be responsible for since they would have to be retarded to create any paper trail to begin with and you've also overlooked my biggest point: Even if those who knew were gone, as in, no longer working for the Company or within it, the INFORMATION regarding the location of the DERELICT, JUST THE INFORMATION ALONE, and simply possessing that information alone, you are a made man. There is no way to tie any responsibility to those possessing it to the Special Order, if you are selling THE INFORMATION. That alone is next to priceless. Whoever knew, could and would obviously sell it, if the COMPANY wasn't interested. In fact, those who knew could simply quit their roles in the Company and start their own, using that information as means to attract an investor. This type of thing happens all the time. The individuals are NOT responsible for the actions of their respective companies. The CREW EXPENDIBLE part, the potential manslaughter charge cannot apply to those selling the information, regardless of laws. Plus no one would want any record of that information being sold, or risk losing their claim, and there would be no need for that kind of disclosure. So, the information itself, the fact that someone out there knows about the Derelict is all you need to know, to justify filling in blanks with any behind the scenes scenario.
To simplify that and just say "You're saying The Company got on board and planted the egg..." is silly, because those are specifics to something to which there are no available specifics apart from what is and isn't already known. So I'm not saying any specific thing happened, beyond the fact that since the information regarding the whereabouts of intelligent life was known by someone, that it is 99.9% harder to justify that information being null and void, than it is to justify saying SOMEONE was still after this, or at least sitting on the information for whatever reason.
As for RIPLEY, of course they would want to know if she was dead or lost in space, because she could spill the beans, so better of lost in space... Next she shows up and they bury it...Surely, just because those who knew were older and retired doesn't warrant saying that they don't have nieces and nephews in their old positions and have passed on info. That's a weak justification. Especially since THOSE WHO KNEW, may not even be telling anyone how or why this effects their decision making. Why should they?
So I'm saying, what makes no sense then, is that the DERELICT should be considered lost after the events in ALIEN. Thats all.
And the simple fact that midquels could easily be written surrounding the derelict, b/w ALIEN and ALIENS, without rendering ALIENS useless, is the proof of that. Furthermore, it is just frankly naive to think, anyone with this type of info, and no legal responsibility would not try and sell it. Shit maybe the need to be so hush, hush is what is taking so long. I dunno. Im not writing a movie I'm just illustrating the potential.
Do you mean to suggest that no one could write a logical midquel operating on this idea, without making ALIENS seem useless? Because it seems like whatever failure repeated attempts to gather the alien, there may have been, even if their weren't any, ALIENS could and should still start the same way.  Plus, the FINDING of RIPLEY in space, would also be a logical catalyst for any new paranoia from those who knew...
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Sharp Sticks on Jun 06, 2011, 05:23:15 AM
Quote from: SM on Jun 05, 2011, 09:25:35 PM
How can they 'work' if they're insane and insulting?  Any theory that actually worked would be the exact opposite.

Then no theory works. Easy correction.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Jun 06, 2011, 06:01:47 AM
Quote from: CainsSon on Jun 06, 2011, 05:16:09 AM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jun 03, 2011, 06:06:17 AM
Quote from: CainsSon on Jun 03, 2011, 05:49:31 AM
Simple. During and after the Nostromo's encounter in ALIEN there are those in the Company, who knew about the alien, lets call those people IN THE KNOW, because it is too valuable a thing to tell everyone who works for you.

This part I agree with, since through numerous threads and facts we already established it was an off the book thing made by one or few individuals


QuoteThe information of how to locate and cofirm Alien life alone is priceless. So, after the Nostromo disappears, those IN THE KNOW, need a new plan. Who knows what it is or was, all we know is 57 years later, there is this 'Shake and bake' colony there....Terraforming. Who knows why. maybe those IN THE KNOW were setting them up slowly, maybe be not, but they are there and so is the Derelict... Point is, it is absurd to just imagine that the Comapny gave up and kept quiet about the Derelict.

Its not absurd at all. Once Nostromo dissapears, no suit wants to be prosecuted for conspiracy and dissapearance and possible deaths of an entire crew, nevermind trying to pass the quarantine and patent laws by acquiring aliens. People IN THE KNOW would stay low and pray no one ever ties all this to them, an illegal plan that went terribly wrong and an order planted which made clear the life of the crew didnt count



QuoteSo she tells this guy Burke and other Company people who ARE NOT IN THE KNOW and it gets back to the Company. Or maybe they didnt find her by accident. Point is, those IN THE KNOW, know whats going on. Now obviously since the information alone is so valuable, people like BURKE are not IN THE KNOW.

Burke knows nothing and the movie made it clear. The people IN THE KNOW by that point are either dead or out of the office. Burke was the only one who gave at least some credibility to what Ripley was saying. Maybe not credibility, but decided to ask some colony hicks to check out the place where Ripley said the derelict was. He acted alone


QuoteThose IN THE KNOW were around. Maybe they were characters we saw, maybe they were one step ahead or behind...but they got that egg on that ship. Possibly after RIpley was already in hypersleep.

It makes no sense for someone to haunt Ripley and not care about the alien. Youre basically saying someone followed Sulaco and docked in the bay and planted the egg. Makes no sense whatsoever on many, many levels

There must be some mis-communication. I'm not SAYING anything concrete. I'm not saying BURKE knew anything at all. I'm saying he didn't know. No one in ALIENS knew, at least, no one had too. It is absurd to think anyone but those who NEEDED to KNOW, EVER KNEW and that there was any paper trail or reason for them to need to wipe their hands of any of it. First off, they could just claim negligence, if it did come up. How could they have known what the Alien was gonna do to them? Second, they were contracted to investigate. Third, why would anyone put the crew expendable thing in print?! That would be next to retarded. It's like writing a letter detailing the way you are willing to kill the rest of your team if you lose a patent. So furthermore, I'm saying there likely was nothing for them to be responsible for since they would have to be retarded to create any paper trail to begin with and you've also overlooked my biggest point: Even if those who knew were gone, as in, no longer working for the Company or within it, the INFORMATION regarding the location of the DERELICT, JUST THE INFORMATION ALONE, and simply possessing that information alone, you are a made man. There is no way to tie any responsibility to those possessing it to the Special Order, if you are selling THE INFORMATION. That alone is next to priceless. Whoever knew, could and would obviously sell it, if the COMPANY wasn't interested. In fact, those who knew could simply quit their roles in the Company and start their own, using that information as means to attract an investor. This type of thing happens all the time. The individuals are NOT responsible for the actions of their respective companies. The CREW EXPENDIBLE part, the potential manslaughter charge cannot apply to those selling the information, regardless of laws. Plus no one would want any record of that information being sold, or risk losing their claim, and there would be no need for that kind of disclosure. So, the information itself, the fact that someone out there knows about the Derelict is all you need to know, to justify filling in blanks with any behind the scenes scenario.
To simplify that and just say "You're saying The Company got on board and planted the egg..." is silly, because those are specifics to something to which there are no available specifics apart from what is and isn't already known. So I'm not saying any specific thing happened, beyond the fact that since the information regarding the whereabouts of intelligent life was known by someone, that it is 99.9% harder to justify that information being null and void, than it is to justify saying SOMEONE was still after this, or at least sitting on the information for whatever reason.
As for RIPLEY, of course they would want to know if she was dead or lost in space, because she could spill the beans, so better of lost in space... Next she shows up and they bury it...Surely, just because those who knew were older and retired doesn't warrant saying that they don't have nieces and nephews in their old positions and have passed on info. That's a weak justification. Especially since THOSE WHO KNEW, may not even be telling anyone how or why this effects their decision making. Why should they?
So I'm saying, what makes no sense then, is that the DERELICT should be considered lost after the events in ALIEN. Thats all.
And the simple fact that midquels could easily be written surrounding the derelict, b/w ALIEN and ALIENS, without rendering ALIENS useless, is the proof of that. Furthermore, it is just frankly naive to think, anyone with this type of info, and no legal responsibility would not try and sell it. Shit maybe the need to be so hush, hush is what is taking so long. I dunno. Im not writing a movie I'm just illustrating the potential.
Do you mean to suggest that no one could write a logical midquel operating on this idea, without making ALIENS seem useless? Because it seems like whatever failure repeated attempts to gather the alien, there may have been, even if their weren't any, ALIENS could and should still start the same way.  Plus, the FINDING of RIPLEY in space, would also be a logical catalyst for any new paranoia from those who knew...
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.thehollywoodgossip.com%2Fimages%2Fgallery%2Fthe-uh-oh-face_329x324.jpg&hash=5567b79e5cafcbe0b317197607a6f9505df0281d)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jun 06, 2011, 06:10:38 AM
Quote from: Sharp Sticks on Jun 06, 2011, 05:23:15 AM
Quote from: SM on Jun 05, 2011, 09:25:35 PM
How can they 'work' if they're insane and insulting?  Any theory that actually worked would be the exact opposite.

Then no theory works. Easy correction.

Not 100%.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Sharp Sticks on Jun 06, 2011, 06:17:11 AM
Fair enough.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Space Sweeper on Jun 06, 2011, 06:25:05 AM
Quote from: CainsSon on Jun 06, 2011, 05:16:09 AM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jun 03, 2011, 06:06:17 AM
Quote from: CainsSon on Jun 03, 2011, 05:49:31 AM
Simple. During and after the Nostromo's encounter in ALIEN there are those in the Company, who knew about the alien, lets call those people IN THE KNOW, because it is too valuable a thing to tell everyone who works for you.

This part I agree with, since through numerous threads and facts we already established it was an off the book thing made by one or few individuals


QuoteThe information of how to locate and cofirm Alien life alone is priceless. So, after the Nostromo disappears, those IN THE KNOW, need a new plan. Who knows what it is or was, all we know is 57 years later, there is this 'Shake and bake' colony there....Terraforming. Who knows why. maybe those IN THE KNOW were setting them up slowly, maybe be not, but they are there and so is the Derelict... Point is, it is absurd to just imagine that the Comapny gave up and kept quiet about the Derelict.

Its not absurd at all. Once Nostromo dissapears, no suit wants to be prosecuted for conspiracy and dissapearance and possible deaths of an entire crew, nevermind trying to pass the quarantine and patent laws by acquiring aliens. People IN THE KNOW would stay low and pray no one ever ties all this to them, an illegal plan that went terribly wrong and an order planted which made clear the life of the crew didnt count



QuoteSo she tells this guy Burke and other Company people who ARE NOT IN THE KNOW and it gets back to the Company. Or maybe they didnt find her by accident. Point is, those IN THE KNOW, know whats going on. Now obviously since the information alone is so valuable, people like BURKE are not IN THE KNOW.

Burke knows nothing and the movie made it clear. The people IN THE KNOW by that point are either dead or out of the office. Burke was the only one who gave at least some credibility to what Ripley was saying. Maybe not credibility, but decided to ask some colony hicks to check out the place where Ripley said the derelict was. He acted alone


QuoteThose IN THE KNOW were around. Maybe they were characters we saw, maybe they were one step ahead or behind...but they got that egg on that ship. Possibly after RIpley was already in hypersleep.

It makes no sense for someone to haunt Ripley and not care about the alien. Youre basically saying someone followed Sulaco and docked in the bay and planted the egg. Makes no sense whatsoever on many, many levels

First, Im not trying to make anyone feel stupid. I'm just maybe plagued by a realism that gives way to cynicism, especially when it concerns Capitalism. Thing is, Im really not the first to decifer that cynical representation of Capitalism as a big part of the Alien franchise. So maybe, I'm just seeing something logical to that cynicism that others less fixated on Capitalist corruption would easily ignore. Plus I admit that the way these things are implied in subtext is one of the most brilliant things about this series and is the one constant in the subtext throughout all 4 films,...

There must be some mis-communication. I'm not SAYING anything concrete. I'm not saying BURKE knew anything at all. I'm saying he didn't know. No one in ALIENS knew, at least, no one had too. It is absurd to think anyone but those who NEEDED to KNOW, EVER KNEW and that there was any paper trail or reason for them to need to wipe their hands of any of it. First off, they could just claim negligence, if it did come up. How could they have known what the Alien was gonna do to them? Second, they were contracted to investigate. Third, why would anyone put the crew expendable thing in print?! That would be next to retarded. It's like writing a letter detailing the way you are willing to kill the rest of your team if you lose a patent. So furthermore, I'm saying there likely was nothing for them to be responsible for since they would have to be retarded to create any paper trail to begin with and you've also overlooked my biggest point: Even if those who knew were gone, as in, no longer working for the Company or within it, the INFORMATION regarding the location of the DERELICT, JUST THE INFORMATION ALONE, and simply possessing that information alone, you are a made man. There is no way to tie any responsibility to those possessing it to the Special Order, if you are selling THE INFORMATION. That alone is next to priceless. Whoever knew, could and would obviously sell it, if the COMPANY wasn't interested. In fact, those who knew could simply quit their roles in the Company and start their own, using that information as means to attract an investor. This type of thing happens all the time. The individuals are NOT responsible for the actions of their respective companies. The CREW EXPENDIBLE part, the potential manslaughter charge cannot apply to those selling the information, regardless of laws. Plus no one would want any record of that information being sold, or risk losing their claim, and there would be no need for that kind of disclosure. So, the information itself, the fact that someone out there knows about the Derelict is all you need to know, to justify filling in blanks with any behind the scenes scenario.
To simplify that and just say "You're saying The Company got on board and planted the egg..." is silly, because those are specifics to something to which there are no available specifics apart from what is and isn't already known. So I'm not saying any specific thing happened, beyond the fact that since the information regarding the whereabouts of intelligent life was known by someone, that it is 99.9% harder to justify that information being null and void, than it is to justify saying SOMEONE was still after this, or at least sitting on the information for whatever reason.
As for RIPLEY, of course they would want to know if she was dead or lost in space, because she could spill the beans, so better of lost in space... Next she shows up and they bury it...Surely, just because those who knew were older and retired doesn't warrant saying that they don't have nieces and nephews in their old positions and have passed on info. That's a weak justification. Especially since THOSE WHO KNEW, may not even be telling anyone how or why this effects their decision making. Why should they?
So I'm saying, what makes no sense then, is that the DERELICT should be considered lost after the events in ALIEN. Thats all.
And the simple fact that midquels could easily be written surrounding the derelict, b/w ALIEN and ALIENS, without rendering ALIENS useless, is the proof of that. Furthermore, it is just frankly naive to think, anyone with this type of info, and no legal responsibility would not try and sell it. Shit maybe the need to be so hush, hush is what is taking so long. I dunno. Im not writing a movie I'm just illustrating the potential.
Do you mean to suggest that no one could write a logical midquel operating on this idea, without making ALIENS seem useless? Because it seems like whatever failure repeated attempts to gather the alien, there may have been, even if their weren't any, ALIENS could and should still start the same way.  Plus, the FINDING of RIPLEY in space, would also be a logical catalyst for any new paranoia from those who knew...
Schiddy wall.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Cap. Fitzgerald on Jun 06, 2011, 07:12:38 AM
I can't even imagine reading that.
I get the feeling theres no pay off, might be a good argument but I'll never know.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Space Sweeper on Jun 06, 2011, 07:16:43 AM
There's no such thing as a good argument in a pointless topic. I mean, it's fun to check in here and see what cooky things some people actually believe the filmmakers intended (which in this case was nothing), but schiddy walls aren't very nice on the eyes.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: keylight-di on Jun 06, 2011, 07:46:21 AM
Quote from: Space Sweeper on Jun 06, 2011, 07:16:43 AM
There's no such thing as a good argument in a pointless topic. I mean, it's fun to check in here and see what cooky things some people actually believe the filmmakers intended (which in this case was nothing), but schiddy walls aren't very nice on the eyes.

Indeed. I'm second that... Funny thing this thread... ;)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Infected on Jun 06, 2011, 07:56:16 PM
There never was an egg on the Sulaco that thing you see sticking and hanging on the wall is just there for that disgusting piece of movie they call Alien 3  >:(
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Basher917 on Jun 06, 2011, 08:16:33 PM
Quote from: Infected on Jun 06, 2011, 07:56:16 PM
There never was an egg on the Sulaco that thing you see sticking and hanging on the wall is just there for that disgusting piece of movie they call Alien 3  >:(
alien3 wasn't that bad, it makes a point that the aliens are made for survival, and how the queen managed to bring/make an egg on the sulaco as a last second resort for the survival of the species
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: CainsSon on Jun 06, 2011, 08:25:39 PM
Quote from: Cap. Fitzgerald on Jun 06, 2011, 07:12:38 AM
I can't even imagine reading that.
I get the feeling theres no pay off, might be a good argument but I'll never know.

Right; you'll never know.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: CainsSon on Jun 06, 2011, 08:33:15 PM
Quote from: Space Sweeper on Jun 06, 2011, 07:16:43 AM
There's no such thing as a good argument in a pointless topic. I mean, it's fun to check in here and see what cooky things some people actually believe the filmmakers intended (which in this case was nothing), but schiddy walls aren't very nice on the eyes.

I never said the filmakers intended that. I've simply said it's logical that the information didn't disappear, and that the proof lies in the potential for a midquel. If there was no possible way than you would all have a snap, reflex reason why a midquel to ALIEN and ALIENS that involves the further investigation of the derelict is impossible and that's just not the case. It couldn't be any more possible. Indeed, the Derelict has been altered in ALIENS since ALIEN, so there is something else, that can be built upon as evidence that something else may have occurred.

So lets just restate the question then. I don't mind. What reason is there to justify saying there cannot be a Derelict oriented Midquel between ALIEN and ALIENS? Furthermore, how can that potential story NOT POSSIBLY relate the events in ALIEN3?
The answer is simple: with a little imagination, they easily can.

Thats not the same as saying the filmakers intended you to realize that, it's just to say that they intended to continue the series without Ripley, and that is apparent by it's beginning. Also that is actually a fact. At first, they wanted A3 without Ripley and for her to return in 4, but the studio insisted on Ripley's return and she said kill me off so they figured they'd reverse it and continue without Ripley after 3...
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: CainsSon on Jun 06, 2011, 08:37:26 PM
Quote from: SM on Jun 06, 2011, 06:10:38 AM
Quote from: Sharp Sticks on Jun 06, 2011, 05:23:15 AM
Quote from: SM on Jun 05, 2011, 09:25:35 PM
How can they 'work' if they're insane and insulting?  Any theory that actually worked would be the exact opposite.

Then no theory works. Easy correction.

Not 100%.

Well I actually agree with you here. I'm not saying there's any way to be sure. I'm just saying that as long as there is the potential for stories between Alien and Aliens, especially ones that further address the attempt to make contact with the Derelict, that there is the potential to explain that egg. That's all. Just saying the potential is there.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jun 06, 2011, 10:07:28 PM
I don't see how events in between Alien and Aliens culminate in an egg on the Sulaco.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Jun 08, 2011, 06:40:08 AM
I agree with SM.

I've also stated my theory on the egg before.

Someone else made a comment regarding what people think the film makers intended in making alien 3 in relation to the egg.

Let me be clear: I in no way believe that my theory is what the film makers intended.  The film makers intended something quite different.  And given the production problems of Alien 3 - the egg on the sulaco was a plot device pure and simple.

However, I am a fan of the franchise.  So much so I've written fan fiction.  I grew up with these films.  I LIKE trying to explain plot holes.  Call it a hobby.

To date, I have yet to see a theory about the egg that is PLAUSIBLE apart from my own.  Correction, there's probably one more theory.  Forgive me if i sound conceited because reading this back I even sound conceited to myself.

So out of all the theories that have come and gone, i've only known of 2 that are halfway plausible.  The rest are just too far fetched.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: wmmvrrvrrmm on Jun 08, 2011, 10:33:57 AM
I think the egg teleported itself or was teleported there if the queen didn't bring it aboard physically
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: OWLF on Jun 08, 2011, 04:51:02 PM
Quote from: wmmvrrvrrmm on Jun 08, 2011, 10:33:57 AM
I think the egg teleported itself or was teleported there if the queen didn't bring it aboard physically
...Or maybe it walked there...
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi56.tinypic.com%2F67l3zs.jpg&hash=9c4778433b93e6e3a0b19000828b4a2bf3a08d1b)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Sharp Sticks on Jun 08, 2011, 04:52:56 PM
Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall,
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All Fox's horses and all the Fox's men,
Couldn't put Alien^3 together again.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: OWLF on Jun 08, 2011, 05:05:49 PM
Quote from: Sharp Sticks on Jun 08, 2011, 04:52:56 PM
Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall,
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All Fox's horses and all the Fox's men,
Couldn't put Alien^3 together again.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi43.tinypic.com%2F1zn69eh.jpg&hash=0179065f554e371c6b26c12157b692a9bd70d59c)

Excellent!! Simply Excellent!! You nailed it Sticks!!  :laugh:
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Mus on Jun 08, 2011, 06:52:52 PM
Who decided Humpty Dumpty is an egg anyway? It's never mentioned in the rhyme. Could've been a little child. Certainly puts a sinister twist on the story.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Basher917 on Jun 10, 2011, 04:19:04 AM
Quote from: Mus on Jun 08, 2011, 06:52:52 PM
Who decided Humpty Dumpty is an egg anyway? It's never mentioned in the rhyme. Could've been a little child. Certainly puts a sinister twist on the story.

....and the parents were in a pile of $**t without life insurance covering that deadbeat's smashed A**
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Eidotemit on Jun 10, 2011, 05:08:59 AM
I think were talking about the wrong egg now (or presumed egg, w.e).

So meanwhile on the Sulaco...
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on Jun 10, 2011, 07:24:39 AM
Well, my theory has always been that the quen laid an egg in the dropship so now one had seen her doing so, and then the suction from the opened bay sucked it up and made it stuck somewhere in this awkward position. Still, that doesnt explain why it was found afterwards. Theres no possible way in hell both Ripley and Bishop wouldve been completely stupid to not to check or scan the dropship and the ship for any more hidden aliens when Queen got in. Not a chance in life
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Dowly on Jun 10, 2011, 11:21:04 AM
^
Unless the egg was heavy as hell, I don't see how it could've gone anywhere but towards the airlock and as already pointed out earlier, there's no structures near the airlock but the dropship.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Valaquen on Jun 10, 2011, 12:37:06 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jun 10, 2011, 07:24:39 AM
Well, my theory has always been that the quen laid an egg in the dropship so now one had seen her doing so, and then the suction from the opened bay sucked it up and made it stuck somewhere in this awkward position. Still, that doesnt explain why it was found afterwards. Theres no possible way in hell both Ripley and Bishop wouldve been completely stupid to not to check or scan the dropship and the ship for any more hidden aliens when Queen got in. Not a chance in life
I also find it weird that the facehugger walked from the docking bay to the cryotubes, possibly opening every door on the way.

Alien 3 ... like, whatever, man.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vakarian on Jun 10, 2011, 12:42:23 PM
Quote from: Valaquen on Jun 10, 2011, 12:37:06 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jun 10, 2011, 07:24:39 AM
Well, my theory has always been that the quen laid an egg in the dropship so now one had seen her doing so, and then the suction from the opened bay sucked it up and made it stuck somewhere in this awkward position. Still, that doesnt explain why it was found afterwards. Theres no possible way in hell both Ripley and Bishop wouldve been completely stupid to not to check or scan the dropship and the ship for any more hidden aliens when Queen got in. Not a chance in life
I also find it weird that the facehugger walked from the docking bay to the cryotubes, possibly opening every door on the way.

Alien 3 ... like, whatever, man.

Might have gone through some sort of ventilation system?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Valaquen on Jun 10, 2011, 12:44:49 PM
Quote from: Sierra on Jun 10, 2011, 12:42:23 PM
Quote from: Valaquen on Jun 10, 2011, 12:37:06 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jun 10, 2011, 07:24:39 AM
Well, my theory has always been that the quen laid an egg in the dropship so now one had seen her doing so, and then the suction from the opened bay sucked it up and made it stuck somewhere in this awkward position. Still, that doesnt explain why it was found afterwards. Theres no possible way in hell both Ripley and Bishop wouldve been completely stupid to not to check or scan the dropship and the ship for any more hidden aliens when Queen got in. Not a chance in life
I also find it weird that the facehugger walked from the docking bay to the cryotubes, possibly opening every door on the way.

Alien 3 ... like, whatever, man.

Might have gone through some sort of ventilation system?
Just can't see it prising away duct covers and such. There's more outlandish stuff in that intro, anyway. Like the whole thing :)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vakarian on Jun 10, 2011, 12:54:45 PM
Quote from: Valaquen on Jun 10, 2011, 12:44:49 PM
Quote from: Sierra on Jun 10, 2011, 12:42:23 PM
Quote from: Valaquen on Jun 10, 2011, 12:37:06 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jun 10, 2011, 07:24:39 AM
Well, my theory has always been that the quen laid an egg in the dropship so now one had seen her doing so, and then the suction from the opened bay sucked it up and made it stuck somewhere in this awkward position. Still, that doesnt explain why it was found afterwards. Theres no possible way in hell both Ripley and Bishop wouldve been completely stupid to not to check or scan the dropship and the ship for any more hidden aliens when Queen got in. Not a chance in life
I also find it weird that the facehugger walked from the docking bay to the cryotubes, possibly opening every door on the way.

Alien 3 ... like, whatever, man.

Might have gone through some sort of ventilation system?
Just can't see it prising away duct covers and such. There's more outlandish stuff in that intro, anyway. Like the whole thing :)

Yeah me either, I mean  i hate Alien 3 as much as the next guy but, just for arguments sake, One melted away Kane's space mask with acid, so who's saying it couldn't do that to duct covers?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: beb on Jun 13, 2011, 08:28:19 PM
you know the bishop conspiracy i would love but since so much has happened in that franchise that is f22ked up ala newborn and the whole movie resurrection i believe it was a a hybrid egg that sprouted legs and walked onto the sulaco  and just sat in wait then moved again lol this is my pissed off way of them not explaining it if anyone gets the joke
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Inverse Effect on Jul 27, 2011, 11:50:50 PM
Ever thought someone in the company landed on the ship and planted it there?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jul 27, 2011, 11:54:35 PM
The same Company that's so eager to get their mitts on an Alien at the end, simply plants one on a ship and leaves everything to chance...
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Space Sweeper on Jul 27, 2011, 11:56:17 PM
Quote from: Guts on Jul 27, 2011, 11:50:50 PM
Ever thought someone in the company landed on the ship and planted it there?
I don't think that was ever supposed to be thought by anybody.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: maddriver on Jul 28, 2011, 07:17:25 AM
The way I se it if the egg was shown to be attached to the hull of the dropship, no one would have had a problem with it. They can simply change the set at the beginning in a future release and everything would be okay.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jul 28, 2011, 07:24:43 AM
If they cared they would've changed it on either of the DVD releases or the Blu-Ray.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Snowdog on Aug 07, 2011, 09:52:58 PM
Quote from: Guts on Jul 27, 2011, 11:50:50 PM
Ever thought someone in the company landed on the ship and planted it there?

Why the hell would they do that  ??? If they had the eggs they could easily implant someone with an embryo. Wich made Ripley expendable. The company would have had the aliens for their special weapons division or whatever they wanted it for. And Ripley would have failed.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: wmmvrrvrrmm on Aug 08, 2011, 02:40:43 PM
I like to imagine that a space jockey teleported it onto the Sulaco seeing that an alien queen already got on board but got thrown out, he thought it would be okay to help the alien species along a bit
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Basher917 on Oct 30, 2011, 02:35:14 PM
Quote from: Snowdog on Aug 07, 2011, 09:52:58 PM
Quote from: Guts on Jul 27, 2011, 11:50:50 PM
Ever thought someone in the company landed on the ship and planted it there?

Why the hell would they do that  ??? If they had the eggs they could easily implant someone with an embryo. Wich made Ripley expendable. The company would have had the aliens for their special weapons division or whatever they wanted it for. And Ripley would have failed.
or they could've studied the egg itself
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Mister Skeezler on Dec 16, 2011, 03:44:50 PM
Not to get all Occam's Razor here, but the only life form capable of creating eggs was on the Sulaco.

There were two times where she was off camera: before she emerged from the landing gear and when she was searching for Newt.

If Batman can continually "disappear" when he's off camera, I can buy the Queen Alien sticking an egg somewhere while no one's looking.

And since this was a second or third generation egg through Earth organism impregnation, I can buy the idea that the xeno has adapted to allow two embryos in an impregnation. Human and canine (or ox, depending on the version) would not be very different from each other, from the perspective of the Xeno. All three are from the same mammalian evolutionary branch. Hell, I can even buy the idea that multiple impregnations have always been possible.

Anything else is just over thinking the issue, in my opinion...but it is part of being a fan.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Dec 16, 2011, 10:32:55 PM
QuoteThere were two times where she was off camera: before she emerged from the landing gear and when she was searching for Newt.

If Batman can continually "disappear" when he's off camera, I can buy the Queen Alien sticking an egg somewhere while no one's looking.

The fact that both Newt and Bishop WERE looking scuttles that theory.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Xenoborg on Dec 17, 2011, 01:05:18 AM
And she didn't have enough time to produce an egg from somewhere and stick it up to the place where we see it and in that fashion.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Dec 17, 2011, 01:07:26 AM
She could've brought the egg with her or laid it en route, but yes there's no way for it to get where we see it in Alien3.  Unless it's on the dropship - which while being my favourite theory, it don't look much like the dropship.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Xenoborg on Dec 17, 2011, 01:11:31 AM
But again it might have been the drop ship since David Fincher changed the look of almost everything.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Ghostface on Dec 17, 2011, 01:13:23 AM
Quote from: SM on Dec 17, 2011, 01:07:26 AM
She could've brought the egg with her or laid it en route, but yes there's no way for it to get where we see it in Alien3.  Unless it's on the dropship - which while being my favourite theory, it don't look much like the dropship.

I assume it was the dropship. I think the bluray menu also try and hint that too. While it seems to be the most plausable answer it still leaves a lot of area for doubt.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: BISHOP 93 on Dec 17, 2011, 01:15:03 PM
Arent gearbox working on a way for the egg to get on the drop ship in aliens:CM?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Xenoborg on Dec 17, 2011, 02:47:53 PM
Yes, they're trying to fix the plothole and possible provide us with a logical answer.

Possibly.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Mister Skeezler on Dec 17, 2011, 10:43:00 PM
There will never be an answer to this debate that all fans will agree on. It's cool that they're going to try, but I can't see it really solving anything.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Snowdog on Dec 17, 2011, 10:49:01 PM
Won't solve anything for most people. But it is really interesting to see their take on it right? :)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Dec 18, 2011, 05:50:59 AM
Quote from: BISHOP 93 on Dec 17, 2011, 01:15:03 PM
Arent gearbox working on a way for the egg to get on the drop ship in aliens:CM?

I wouldn't trust ironing out filmic errors to guys who said the colony survived the AP Station explosion.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Spider-pope on Dec 23, 2011, 08:48:10 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jun 10, 2011, 07:24:39 AM
Theres no possible way in hell both Ripley and Bishop wouldve been completely stupid to not to check or scan the dropship and the ship for any more hidden aliens when Queen got in. Not a chance in life

This of course being the same Ripley who didnt notice the Alien asleep on a frickin' shelf until stripping off in the first film, who failed to notice a Dog Alien creeping up behind her Prison Doctor boyfriend while chatting to him. Face it, Ripley just isnt that observant.

Quote from: Guts on Jul 27, 2011, 11:50:50 PM
Ever thought someone in the company landed on the ship and planted it there?

Which would make no sense at all. If the Company could get their hands on an egg to use in an overly elaborate plan to silence any witnesses, they they could get their hands on eggs to study. Which completely negates the point of trying to get hold of Ripley at the end.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Xenoborg on Dec 23, 2011, 08:55:50 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jun 10, 2011, 07:24:39 AM
Well, my theory has always been that the quen laid an egg in the dropship so now one had seen her doing so, and then the suction from the opened bay sucked it up and made it stuck somewhere in this awkward position. Still, that doesnt explain why it was found afterwards. Theres no possible way in hell both Ripley and Bishop wouldve been completely stupid to not to check or scan the dropship and the ship for any more hidden aliens when Queen got in. Not a chance in life
You put a really strong point. Now I think there might have been an Alien on board.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Gunflyer on Dec 23, 2011, 09:03:40 PM
As we saw in Aliens, she needs that biomass of an apparatus to lay those facehugger eggs. She obviously did not take that with her. So... how exactly did she lay the egg in the landing gear of the dropship without it? In any case, for Ripley not to notice such a thing really makes her look like a moron considering what happened before on the Nostromo's escape ship. There's also the little problem of proximity. As we've seen before, eggs only hatch when people are within a couple feet of them, and I am pretty sure the landing bay and the sleep chamber aren't even remotely close to each other.

What this is about is trying to mitigate the stupid circumstances surrounding the set up for Alien 3, and even though I've never been a fan of the Alien series, I think it doesn't work at all. It's vapid to try and mitigate the obnoxious and pointless off-screen killings of critical main characters.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Salt The Fries on Dec 23, 2011, 10:28:59 PM
Quote from: SM on Dec 18, 2011, 05:50:59 AM
Quote from: BISHOP 93 on Dec 17, 2011, 01:15:03 PM
Arent gearbox working on a way for the egg to get on the drop ship in aliens:CM?

I wouldn't trust ironing out filmic errors to guys who said the colony survived the AP Station explosion.
They're frigging company guys...
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Bamozore on Dec 24, 2011, 05:20:36 AM
I don't know why Fox doesn't change the begining of Alien3 with actual CGI for the Blu Ray release ...
The eggs  is not in the Dropship , he is in the Sulaco's sub floor ... But where exactly ?  :-\
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: bambi_burster on Dec 24, 2011, 02:30:31 PM
The egg on the sulaco is obviously a massive talking point at the begining of the film.
I have always thought that the paceing of the intrduction to tye film kind of tacks up the slack of what was happening.

If you ignore the pace of the film then there are certainly several points to discuss:

1. The size of the egg.

2. The location. Despite what has been said it isn't the drop ship.
3. The gestation period of the facehugger on ripley.
4. The colour of the facehugger on the sulaco doesn't match the queen facehugger on the assembly cut.

5. How did it travel on the eev.
6. How did the facehugger avoid detection from the prisoners. Did it simply allow spike to pick it up in the eev or was it inpregnated on the eev. Wity the temprature dropping outside would the facehugger be able to protect its host
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Xenoborg on Dec 24, 2011, 07:57:24 PM
Quote from: bambi_burster on Dec 24, 2011, 02:30:31 PM
The egg on the sulaco is obviously a massive talking point at the begining of the film.
I have always thought that the paceing of the intrduction to tye film kind of tacks up the slack of what was happening.

If you ignore the pace of the film then there are certainly several points to discuss:

1. The size of the egg.

2. The location. Despite what has been said it isn't the drop ship.
3. The gestation period of the facehugger on ripley.
4. The colour of the facehugger on the sulaco doesn't match the queen facehugger on the assembly cut.

5. How did it travel on the eev.
6. How did the facehugger avoid detection from the prisoners. Did it simply allow spike to pick it up in the eev or was it inpregnated on the eev. Wity the temprature dropping outside would the facehugger be able to protect its host
Yeah, most of it has already been discussed in the previous pages.

1. Though the egg seems small in size, we don't exactly have any direct reference point to compare the size. It might have been a regular egg, after all.

2. The location, could be anywhere.
The Alien Anthology menus depict the egg to be in the drop ship, but in a different position, not like what we see in the movie.

3. Logically, the gestation period should be the same as any other Alien. But it seems, in the movie, that it is roughly around a week.

4. The Facehugger we see in the movie is a regular Facehugger. The movie never implies that it was a different kind of a Facehugger.

5. We're expected to believe that the Facehugger was already impregnating someone when the EEV was launched. So it was there all along.

6. Now the last question cannot be answered since the movie doesn't give us any information. I think the Facehugger impregnated the dog just near the wreckage since all of the people had left and the Facehugger desperately needed a new host for the protection of the Queen embryo.

I can't say anything about the temperature thing.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: bambi_burster on Dec 24, 2011, 08:08:33 PM
does anyone think any of this was discussed during post production??
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Xenoborg on Dec 24, 2011, 08:46:03 PM
Yes. Even if they were filming even if the script wasn't complete, they might have discussed this.
But they didn't put enough thought into anything at all, since they didn't get time and weren't really allowed to since Fox was being mean and bossy.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: bambi_burster on Dec 24, 2011, 08:50:18 PM
I agree with with Fox owner said that they should cut the scene from the theatrical version of the alien being captured because it appears to decrease the mythical elements and power of the beast. I just don't understand how the opening went unnoticed. In each of the different script ideas no explanation of how alien/aliens arrived on the Sulaco etc.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Xenoborg on Dec 24, 2011, 08:51:54 PM
I think that they felt it would be cool to keep the beginning a complete suspense and give out limited and misdirecting information.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: bambi_burster on Dec 24, 2011, 08:55:13 PM
it certainly a hash of an edit, lots of cuts. Ive noticed that the Sulaco doesn't look like the craft from the previous film, plus the cryo tubes are different. (I do like the film by the way.)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Omegamorph on Dec 24, 2011, 08:57:08 PM
Those were both creative liberties taken by Fincher.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: bambi_burster on Dec 24, 2011, 09:00:24 PM
what did you think when you first saw the egg etc???????????????
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Xenoborg on Dec 24, 2011, 09:01:28 PM
Quote from: bambi_burster on Dec 24, 2011, 09:00:24 PM
what did you think when you first saw the egg etc???????????????
"Oh she stuck one up there!!"
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: bambi_burster on Dec 24, 2011, 09:03:01 PM
lol. I just thought that seems really small for an alien egg..................hold on how did it get there????????? oh no not ripleyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Xenoborg on Dec 24, 2011, 09:06:57 PM
Quote from: bambi_burster on Dec 24, 2011, 09:03:01 PM
lol. I just thought that seems really small for an alien egg..................hold on how did it get there????????? oh no not ripleyyyyyyyyyyyyy
This too.
I watched Alien3 numerous times and after every single time, I had newer questions in mind.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: bambi_burster on Dec 24, 2011, 09:11:48 PM
I doubt the answers will ever be given. does anyone know of Ridley Scott's opinion of Alien 3
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Valaquen on Dec 25, 2011, 12:29:02 PM
Quote from: bambi_burster on Dec 24, 2011, 09:11:48 PM
I doubt the answers will ever be given. does anyone know of Ridley Scott's opinion of Alien 3
I've only heard him outright praise Aliens, and he generalised that the other sequels were "all good". His son actually worked on Alien 3 as a concept artist, and Ridley visited the set during filming and spoke to Fincher. He can be seen interviewed on the set in Alien Saga I believe (it's one of the docs, at least).
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Gunflyer on Dec 26, 2011, 04:27:08 AM
Quote from: bambi_burster on Dec 24, 2011, 09:00:24 PM
what did you think when you first saw the egg etc???????????????
I think you all know what I thought, but just in case you don't, I said "Bullshit". When the hell did she lay that? Before or after she was thrown out of the frickin' airlock? Because I'm pretty sure she didn't have the requisite ambulatory birthing apparatus or the time to lay an egg before impaling Bishop.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Dec 27, 2011, 07:11:39 AM
If she brought it with her, there was no need to lay it.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Xenoborg on Dec 27, 2011, 08:58:19 AM
Which she didn't, as seen in the film.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: whiterabbit on Dec 27, 2011, 09:29:37 AM
Alright lets just bug out and call it even. How about this. There was a theory of a gas that could morph humans into aliens. Lets just say when ripley whacked the queen upside the head with the loader the Queen had a bit of flatulence and farted out said gas. I mean come on, she is a weapon, thus her farts must also be weaponized. She was pretty big and it's not impossible that the gaseous concoction floated around for a bit before getting stuck to the ceiling somewhere else on the sulaco. Thus explaining how an egg could have magically appeared.

I mean come on, if the space jockey are as perverted as Ridley is making them out to be then they surely must have thought about this. Maybe the egg sack was just to control her flatulence so she could willfully place the eggs where she wanted them.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Dec 27, 2011, 09:31:39 AM
Quote from: The Xenoborg on Dec 27, 2011, 08:58:19 AM
Which she didn't, as seen in the film.

You don't see her from behind after she leaves the nest.

As seen in the film.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Xenoborg on Dec 27, 2011, 09:32:16 AM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Dec 27, 2011, 09:29:37 AM
Alright lets just call it even and bug out already. How about this. There was a theory of a gas that could morph humans into aliens. Lets just say when ripley whacked the queen upside the head with the loader the Queen had a bit of flatulence and farted out said gas. I mean come on, she is a weapon, thus her farts must also be weaponized.
I was just trying to eat some food. *sigh*  :-X


QuoteYou don't see her from behind after she leaves the nest.

As seen in the film.
Are you saying she kept an egg within her back pipes?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Dec 27, 2011, 09:41:07 AM
Best place to protect it from the nasty woman with the big gun.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Xenoborg on Dec 27, 2011, 09:48:57 AM
And how did could she stick it up there?

There, as in, the place we see in Alien3.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: whiterabbit on Dec 27, 2011, 09:50:20 AM
Quote from: The XenoborgI was just trying to eat some food. *sigh*  :-X

Are you saying she kept an egg within her back pipes?


So how's your food taste now? It's only logical to have a little stuck egg after having to tear off your egg sack.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Xenoborg on Dec 27, 2011, 09:53:25 AM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Dec 27, 2011, 09:50:20 AM
Quote from: The XenoborgI was just trying to eat some food. *sigh*  :-X

Are you saying she kept an egg within her back pipes?


So how's your food taste now? It's only logical to have a little stuck egg after having to tear off your egg sack.
Ate it anyway. :P
I had this in mind too, while posting that.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Dec 27, 2011, 09:55:25 AM
Quote from: The Xenoborg on Dec 27, 2011, 09:48:57 AM
And how did could she stick it up there?

There, as in, the place we see in Alien3.

Kinda hard to answer since we don't know what that place is.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: whiterabbit on Dec 27, 2011, 09:56:47 AM
Wait a minute, I remember seeing in drafts and production art that the egg has a tail... I always thought that was to root itself down but perhaps it walked itself over and up the wall?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Xenoborg on Dec 27, 2011, 09:59:14 AM
Even if we knew, I don't know how she could have put it there, without any help.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Dec 27, 2011, 09:56:47 AM
Wait a minute, I remember seeing in drafts and production art that the egg has a tail... I always thought that was to root itself down but perhaps it walked itself over and up the wall?
I keep seeing this 'Eggs can walk' thing. Can they really walk or something?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: whiterabbit on Dec 27, 2011, 10:01:32 AM
Quote from: The Xenoborg on Dec 27, 2011, 09:59:14 AM
Even if we knew, I don't know how she could have put it there, without any help.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Dec 27, 2011, 09:56:47 AM
Wait a minute, I remember seeing in drafts and production art that the egg has a tail... I always thought that was to root itself down but perhaps it walked itself over and up the wall?
I keep seeing this 'Eggs can walk' thing. Can they really walk or something?
No idea but why the hell not? It's a better explanation that we got in the friggen 3rd movie.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Dec 27, 2011, 10:01:56 AM
Not that's ever been shown.  Or even hinted it.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: whiterabbit on Dec 27, 2011, 10:03:34 AM
Haha maybe the eggs flips over and the face hugger walks it over like a crab? Heck maybe the egg is just the face huggers shell. OMFG the facehugger is a hermit crab!


.... pffft.

edit: hey that could even solve the ampule thing. Maybe all the ampule are are face hugger shells. When this new form of pray shows up, (humans) they dump the cold jars for something more warm and cozy.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Xenoborg on Dec 27, 2011, 10:04:45 AM
Quote from: SM on Dec 27, 2011, 10:01:56 AM
Not that's ever been shown.  Or even hinted it.
And should never be.

Quote from: whiterabbit on Dec 27, 2011, 10:01:32 AM
Quote from: The Xenoborg on Dec 27, 2011, 09:59:14 AM
Even if we knew, I don't know how she could have put it there, without any help.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Dec 27, 2011, 09:56:47 AM
Wait a minute, I remember seeing in drafts and production art that the egg has a tail... I always thought that was to root itself down but perhaps it walked itself over and up the wall?
I keep seeing this 'Eggs can walk' thing. Can they really walk or something?
No idea but why the hell not? It's a better explanation that we got in the friggen 3rd movie.
We have much better theories than that!
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: aliennaire on Dec 27, 2011, 11:38:00 AM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Dec 27, 2011, 09:50:20 AM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg193.imageshack.us%2Fimg193%2F7135%2F2349q.jpg&hash=4ddba14f7b86e78369e684fd48da42539cc25a6a) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/193/2349q.jpg/)
It's only logical to have a little stuck egg after having to tear off your egg sack.

Whatever comes out of the Queen (from that place, what the arrow points at), you can't literally call it an egg, because it's small shapeless mass of mucus, which gradually grows and stiffens and acquires the egg form in the ovipositor. Look at the scene when Ripley shoots out the Queen's eggsack - they literally used yolks for developing eggs to fill the sack.
But whether can the unformed egg to mature without Queens ovipositor or not - it's unclear to me. I mean, I largely doubt this.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Snowdog on Dec 27, 2011, 12:18:56 PM
Who says the egg if fully developped when the queen laid it there. Maybe it was much much smaller and developed further on the ship into a full grown facehugger egg. could be right ?

Or maybe it was bishop all the time ::)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Dirty Harry on Dec 27, 2011, 12:31:02 PM
The queen hides inside the landing gear compartment of the dropship.The inner structures had the "Sulaco" name because it´s his mothership.
The queen lays a undeveloped egg(the big abdome serves to mature them).
The Sulaco sensors array can not detect the egg because it´s hidden inside the dropship fuselage.
The queen dies,the crew go to the cryochambers.
The egg mature,the facehugger feels the presence of potential victims and leaves the egg to attack them.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Omegamorph on Dec 27, 2011, 12:32:21 PM
There are countless explanations we can make up to explain this little egg appearing here. I could make up with, literally, anything I want. I could even say it was a teleporting magic squirrel that brought the egg here. Fact is, I don't think there's really a viable explanation that's reasonable context taken.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: aliennaire on Dec 27, 2011, 12:43:22 PM
Quote from: Snowdog on Dec 27, 2011, 12:18:56 PM
Or maybe it was bishop all the time ::)

Oh, let Bishop rest in peace as a good guy, please!  :D

Quote from: Snowdog on Dec 27, 2011, 12:18:56 PM
Maybe it was much much smaller and developed further on the ship into a full grown facehugger egg. could be right ?

Could be. But as I said before, the notion of the self-growing egg outside of the Queens egg sack doesn't sound quite solid to me... if only the sack wasn't purported to decelerate its content lest all the eggs hatched the superfacehuggers, lol... what is absurd...
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: whiterabbit on Dec 27, 2011, 02:20:37 PM
Quote from: aliennaire on Dec 27, 2011, 12:43:22 PM
Quote from: Snowdog on Dec 27, 2011, 12:18:56 PM
Or maybe it was bishop all the time ::)

Oh, let Bishop rest in peace as a good guy, please!  :D
Eh Bishop seemed all too happy to remote pilot the ship.... as if he had just done it 10 minutes ago.

;D
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on Dec 27, 2011, 04:59:26 PM
By accepting that Bishop is the reason, youre accepting that:

1) Bishop got hold of an egg somehow. He couldnt get it in the lab because the lab only had facehuggers, not eggs. He also couldnt go into the hive - we see remotely piloting the dropship and he doesnt go anywhere else. Then Ripley goes into the hive, theres no Bishop there. He didnt follow her and even of he did somehow, Ripley blasted all the eggs anyway. And he couldnt land anywhere there anyway
2) He hid it on the dropship and went to pick up Ripley
3) They return to the Sulaco, land, then Bishop gets ripped in half by the queen
4) After the survivors (including Bishop) are in stasis, he somehow wakes up (despite the fact that Ripley programmed the tubes), drags himself out of the stasis chamber and drags himself to the dropship.
5) He then hauls himself aboard the dropship, finds his hiding spot for the egg, hauls it out of the dropship and into the armory on the Sulaco (an impressive feat with no legs and just 2 arms to move himself and the egg!)
6) He then somehow sticks it upside down under the table or something, whilst still basically just being an upper torso.
7) He then drags himself back to the stasis pods and climbs back in.

Its much easier to accept that the queen simply laid an egg while on Sulaco to ensure the survival of the species and the egg got sucked in in that position because of the air coming out through the airlock. This theory is also filled with holes but its still more logical and plausible

And I agree, Bishop was a good guy, let him rest in peace! :laugh:
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Xenoborg on Dec 27, 2011, 05:09:00 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Dec 27, 2011, 04:59:26 PM
By accepting that Bishop is the reason, youre accepting that:

1) Bishop got hold of an egg somehow. He couldnt get it in the lab because the lab only had facehuggers, not eggs. He also couldnt go into the hive - we see remotely piloting the dropship and he doesnt go anywhere else. Then Ripley goes into the hive, theres no Bishop there. He didnt follow her and even of he did somehow, Ripley blasted all the eggs anyway. And he couldnt land anywhere there anyway
2) He hid it on the dropship and went to pick up Ripley
3) They return to the Sulaco, land, then Bishop gets ripped in half by the queen
4) After the survivors (including Bishop) are in stasis, he somehow wakes up (despite the fact that Ripley programmed the tubes), drags himself out of the stasis chamber and drags himself to the dropship.
5) He then hauls himself aboard the dropship, finds his hiding spot for the egg, hauls it out of the dropship and into the armory on the Sulaco (an impressive feat with no legs and just 2 arms to move himself and the egg!)
6) He then somehow sticks it upside down under the table or something, whilst still basically just being an upper torso.
7) He then drags himself back to the stasis pods and climbs back in.

Its much easier to accept that the queen simply laid an egg while on Sulaco to ensure the survival of the species and the egg got sucked in in that position because of the air coming out through the airlock. This theory is also filled with holes but its still more logical and plausible

And I agree, Bishop was a good guy, let him rest in peace! :laugh:

I am SO sure I have read the same thing before somewhere. May be earlier in this thread.
But well put, StrangeShape.
It cannot be Bishop. And shouldn't be.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on Dec 27, 2011, 05:24:23 PM
You sure did. 2 years ago someone posted it here and I copied it ever since.
My theory is that the egg is in such weird position because the escaping air pulled it and stuck it this way. One problem remains, how did the queen lay an egg when Bishop and Newt were watching, and how didnt Ripley and Bishop check with bioscan for more alien organisms after finding out that one (Queen) stowed away, and how didnt they check the whole ship thoroughly after
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Xenoborg on Dec 27, 2011, 05:35:51 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Dec 27, 2011, 05:24:23 PM
You sure did. 2 years ago someone posted it here and I copied it ever since.
My theory is that the egg is in such weird position because the escaping air pulled it and stuck it this way.
I agree. I stick to this theory too. It could also reinforce the theories regarding its size: It was small enough to be picked up by the force of the vacuum.

QuoteOne problem remains, how did the queen lay an egg when Bishop and Newt were watching?
This means that the egg was either brought separately and kept somewhere or the Queen laid it while en-route to the Sulaco and kept it somewhere or that the Queen brought it herself within her back-pipes and kept it in the landing gear.

Quotehow didnt Ripley and Bishop check with bioscan for more alien organisms after finding out that one (Queen) stowed away, and how didnt they check the whole ship thoroughly after
They should have.


Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: aliennaire on Dec 27, 2011, 06:53:53 PM
Quote from: The Xenoborg on Dec 27, 2011, 05:35:51 PM
Quotehow didnt Ripley and Bishop check with bioscan for more alien organisms after finding out that one (Queen) stowed away, and how didnt they check the whole ship thoroughly after
They should have.

Yes, knowing Ripley's meticulousness and the scope of detestation towards these species ("24 hours for decontamination", "nuke the entire site from the orbit") she certainly should have set on fire the landing deck and shove off the dropship into the outerspace, lol.

Spoiler
Xenoborg, Happy 19th B-Day!  ;D
[close]
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Xenoborg on Dec 27, 2011, 07:16:44 PM
Quote from: aliennaire on Dec 27, 2011, 06:53:53 PM
Yes, knowing Ripley's meticulousness and the scope of detestation towards these species ("24 hours for decontamination", "nuke the entire site from the orbit") she certainly should have set on fire the landing deck and shove off the dropship into the outerspace, lol.
May be she was too tired :)

Quote from: aliennaire on Dec 27, 2011, 06:53:53 PM
Spoiler
Xenoborg, Happy 19th B-Day!  ;D
[close]
Thanks a lot aliennaire!!  ;D ;)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Gunflyer on Dec 27, 2011, 11:08:17 PM
Even IF the Queen laid the damn egg on the Sulaco, the vacuum of space would have sucked the damn thing out of there! It obviously was in a place where somebody could have seen it before entering hypersleep. In any case, Ripley, Bishop, Newt all would have logically seen the damn thing even before it was sucked out along with Queenie. Game... set... match...
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Xenoborg on Dec 27, 2011, 11:10:14 PM
It got stuck on some wall, and the force was pretty strong.
If only the air-lock was open for some more time, it would have violently been sucked out too.
That's what I think.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Gunflyer on Dec 27, 2011, 11:12:40 PM
Quote from: The Xenoborg on Dec 27, 2011, 11:10:14 PM
It got stuck on some wall, and the force was pretty strong.
If only the air-lock was open for some more time, it would have violently been sucked out too.
That's what I think.
Still got to call bull on that. What? Did the Queen Queef it out onto the wall without... ANYBODY noticing? Sorry, no sale.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Xenoborg on Dec 27, 2011, 11:14:08 PM
Quote from: Gunflyer on Dec 27, 2011, 11:12:40 PM
Quote from: The Xenoborg on Dec 27, 2011, 11:10:14 PM
It got stuck on some wall, and the force was pretty strong.
If only the air-lock was open for some more time, it would have violently been sucked out too.
That's what I think.
Still got to call bull on that. What? Did the Queen Queef it out onto the wall without... ANYBODY noticing? Sorry, no sale.
The Queen did no-.. Did you even read the previous page?
The Queen did not.
Bishop did not.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: whiterabbit on Dec 27, 2011, 11:29:51 PM
Bishop did it while the crew was on the bug hunt. First thing first. How did the egg get there before anyone figures out how the hell it got up a wall and why Ripley brainfarted... oh wait maybe bishop said he already scanned the area remotely... probably even used the unheard of sulaco computer voice. he he he.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcFnvULy8zA#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcFnvULy8zA#ws)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Xenoborg on Dec 27, 2011, 11:31:12 PM
The movie tells us, that he didn't say anything like that.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: whiterabbit on Dec 27, 2011, 11:36:03 PM
Quote from: The Xenoborg on Dec 27, 2011, 11:31:12 PM
The movie tells us, that he didn't say anything like that.
That king of logic is what allows sequels to fill in the blanks. So now we're back at magic.  ;D
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Xenoborg on Dec 27, 2011, 11:37:51 PM
I think there was another Alien behind this.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Gunflyer on Dec 27, 2011, 11:41:39 PM
Quote from: The Xenoborg on Dec 27, 2011, 11:37:51 PM
I think there was another Alien behind this.
Or maybe Alien 3 is the Highlander 2 of the Alien series...
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Snowdog on Dec 27, 2011, 11:46:55 PM
Quote from: Gunflyer on Dec 27, 2011, 11:41:39 PM
Quote from: The Xenoborg on Dec 27, 2011, 11:37:51 PM
I think there was another Alien behind this.
Or maybe Alien 3 is the Highlander 2 of the Alien series...

Now you're going way too far out of line :P . Alien3 is a great movie. I seriously don't get all the negativity around this movie. Yeah the whole production was kind of a hell itself. However this gives the movie a big behind the scenes story. Also the killing of certain characters sets the dark tone. In the alien universe there is no happy ending :laugh: I loved the whole darkish mood in alien3.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Gunflyer on Dec 27, 2011, 11:59:34 PM
Quote from: Snowdog on Dec 27, 2011, 11:46:55 PM
However this gives the movie a big behind
;D
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: whiterabbit on Dec 28, 2011, 12:39:02 AM
Alien 3 was a good movie. Finch shouldn't be so depressed about it. However would it have killed them to take 5 minutes to explain how an egg got on board. Bishop should have just admitted that Burk order him to do it. Once a bot always a bot. ;D
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: mastermoon on Dec 28, 2011, 12:47:56 AM
It's so confusing how that egg got there in the first place, they did not explain how it was put in that spot?.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: whiterabbit on Dec 28, 2011, 01:03:35 AM
Quote from: mastermoon on Dec 28, 2011, 12:47:56 AM
It's so confusing how that egg got there in the first place, they did not explain how it was put in that spot?.
That was finchy slapping fox in the face and giving all of us something to talk about for all eternity.

However they're at least a dozen perfectly plausible ways the egg got there. The most logical is that bishop did it or the queen had it. It's just that too many will only accept the one that is put to screen. Meaning we just have to pick one and be happy.

I say bishop did it. He didn't circle around, the damn drop ship could hover perfectly fine. He knocked hicks the f**k out and headed straight for the derelict. Got TWO eggs and hurried his synthetic ass back to the atmospheric processing facility and thought holy shit she's alive. I mean come on there is no way Ripley, a mere human, should have made it back. That was exactly what Bishop was thinking. Upon which the company (Burk's) primary programming kicked in and that was to bring back the alien. Did anyone check burk's luggage? I bet he had a discontinued Ash in the closet.

edit: that or he traced burks id chip, since in the DC burk is seen alive and grabbed a couple of unburnt eggs. That would explain why the ship came up from BELOW the platform.  ;D
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on Dec 28, 2011, 01:06:17 AM
There should be plenty of people who should have known the answer to WHERE the egg was. For one, the set designer, the people who did the set and people who shot it
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: whiterabbit on Dec 28, 2011, 01:09:01 AM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Dec 28, 2011, 01:06:17 AM
There should be plenty of people who should have known the answer to WHERE the egg was. For one, the set designer, the people who did the set and people who shot it
Not really. They only do what ever the hell the company orders them to do.

I think the biggest problem is that for whatever reason people, like me, wanted the happy ending. However the entire point of the Alien Franchise is that you are totally f**ked when you run into the species. Bishop stabbing Ripley in the back jives perfectly well here. The very same as killing off hicks and newt in the beginning.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on Dec 28, 2011, 01:17:33 AM
Yeah but people who designed the place where the egg was had to know what theyre designing
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: whiterabbit on Dec 28, 2011, 01:30:39 AM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Dec 28, 2011, 01:17:33 AM
Yeah but people who designed the place where the egg was had to know what theyre designing
Might as well look up the ships schematics. I think they do exist on line. Be easier than tracking down a set designer.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on Dec 28, 2011, 02:28:46 AM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Dec 28, 2011, 01:30:39 AM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Dec 28, 2011, 01:17:33 AM
Yeah but people who designed the place where the egg was had to know what theyre designing
Might as well look up the ships schematics. I think they do exist on line. Be easier than tracking down a set designer.

But thats the problem. NOTHING in Sulaco resembles the room where the egg is
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Gunflyer on Dec 28, 2011, 05:28:29 AM
Quote from: Snowdog on Dec 27, 2011, 11:46:55 PM
Now you're going way too far out of line :P . Alien3 is a great movie.
i don't think so... see, Newt died not to further the dramatic purpose of Alien 3, but solely for pathos. Hick's dying was for the same reason. Their deaths meant nothing and did not occur organically, it felt more like the result of contract negotiations that fell apart, and at the last minute they said "well, we can't get the people who played Hicks or Newt, so let's just kill them.".

That's pathetic. That's why it feels like Alien 3 pissed all over everything, but more specifically, what the fans consider to be the finest entry in the series.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Dec 28, 2011, 05:38:47 AM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Dec 28, 2011, 01:06:17 AM
There should be plenty of people who should have known the answer to WHERE the egg was. For one, the set designer, the people who did the set and people who shot it

It's on the Sulaco.  End of.

QuoteHowever they're at least a dozen perfectly plausible ways the egg got there.

There are many explanations.  None hold any water.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: whiterabbit on Dec 28, 2011, 08:11:52 AM
Sure they do. First one put to film wins.  8)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Xenoborg on Dec 28, 2011, 11:57:41 AM
If we could only where the egg was, it would have helped finding out who put it there.
We see 'SULACO' written on the panel behind the egg but we don't know how it got there and, still, what place is that on the Sulaco?
Some people, earlier in the thread said that it was in the dropship after all, since the dropship was of Sulaco, it would have its name on it.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Dec 29, 2011, 02:51:39 AM
I've been putting that theory forward for year - since the APC has 'Sulaco' painted on it.  Key difference is 'painted'.  The 'Sulaco' in Alien3 isn't just painted on.

Ultimately there is no answer.  They just wanted to make the audience know we were on the Sulaco (in case the huge writing on the side of the ship wasn't enough).  Dropship still works for me (which is what they went with for the Alien3 blu ray menus) - but as I said, it holds as much water as other theories.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Primordial on Jul 23, 2012, 10:24:52 PM
Here is an alternative theory to try to cover the eternal plothole (yes another one, I don't claim to hold the truth and my apologies if I disturb anyone  :P) :
After Bishop was ripped into 2, the lower part of his body got eggmorphed. How can that be possible ?

First of all, it is just an assumption, but the egg seems smaller than "Brett's egg" and "Dallas egg " ( I assume the letters of S.U.L.A.C.O. are smaller than a human head) and the texture of "the Sulaco Egg" does not look the same.
An explanation could be that just half a body is used to make an egg and its different appearance is perhaps because Bishop is an android (of course, the most important thing is that the egg is viable over the appearance)

As a reminder, we don't know all the capabilities of the Alien and its lifecycle, not to mention the Queen. Scott said that Ash was 2/3 human. Bishop is a more recent model of android and is probably closer than that (although the inside of the body does not look too human with tubes etc). Has he got some kind of cells for some parts of his body, has he got DNA or not, and does the Alien absolutely need a lifeform with DNA to make an egg ? We don't know (or I missed something ?). He is maybe not a viable host for a facehugger but still could be cocooned. It is possible that the eggs found in the derelict came from a biomechanoid specie, if they were cocooned, why not a "synthetic" ?

How could he get eggmorphed provided that the Queen barely touches him before he gets halved ? The fact of being pierced by the tail might be sufficient but then why only the lower part got cocooned ? Remember when we see acid (only acid ?) driping near Bishop's shoe. This liquid could have been spread on the legs before he was cut off. Of course we were not focused on this but rather on the fact of him being lifted so high. This liquid could be part of the eggmorphing process.
Up to now, we know that Brett and Dallas were changed into an egg and they were put above ground, it means there must be sticky matter on them in order to do so. Maybe she put on him that sticky stuff with the little arms before ripping him off ? Or that liquid has also got some sticky proprieties ?
The Queen has such power that the legs flew quite far away (near the Airway "E3 D") and they could have landed and sticked above the ground on the location seen in the opening of A3. Around the egg, nothing which could suggest a lair, a hive, (like when Ripley locates her two cocooned partners before escaping in the Narcissus), because the Queen had no time to do her job.
What about the vacuum, was that "Alien glue" strong enough to counter it ? Or maybe the legs got stucked physically speaking ? Or both ?

As it was already said, considering Bishop and Ripley would scan and search every inch of he dropship and the Sulaco for any more aliens onboard, they possibly didn't think the legs got impregnated which is of course a mistake (this early stage of cocooned legs could have not been detected by the scan).
Just before hypersleep, Bishop is wrapped and I believe intestine tubes were too (the sort of aluminium foil on the location of the legs would be there to protect the intestine tubes)
In A3, when Ripley wants answers from him and takes the upper body, we don't see at all the lower part next to it..

In this theory, unfortunately there are many "maybe" or "could" , but please just don't tell me that in the novelization, they threw the legs into the trashcan of the Sulaco  :laugh:
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jul 23, 2012, 11:16:56 PM
His legs never rate a mention as far as I remember.

There's a good chance they got sucked out when Ripley decompressed the ship.

However those masters of continuity - Gearbox - have his legs magically flying over the airlock and landing on the other side to be found by some marines.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Primordial on Jul 25, 2012, 07:40:23 PM
Quote from: SM on Jul 23, 2012, 11:16:56 PM
There's a good chance they got sucked out when Ripley decompressed the ship.

Looked the decompression scene in detail and I don't see the legs flying. I agree without this sticky matter I was talking about (with "the egg was brought by the Queen" theory, the egg was still hanging), sure they would be in space kicking the Queen..And with a real life depressurization, I doubt Ripley would have made it
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jul 25, 2012, 11:16:38 PM
If Gearbox were smart (*guffaw*) they could've included the legs, but have it so they were getting sucked out but hit the dropship landing gear balls first.  For teh lulz.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Salt The Fries on Jul 25, 2012, 11:22:41 PM
It's because Randy Pitchford is a fanboy with a penchant for one-liners : /
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: robertmartin on Jul 28, 2012, 03:03:17 PM
this eternal question...has it ever been proposed to Fox? Or the Director? (I realize this question i ask is itself pretty stupid but i was wondering...).
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jul 29, 2012, 12:00:13 AM
No.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Sep 12, 2012, 01:21:10 AM
I used to subscribe to the "legmorphing" theory myself (especially after reading the Gibson script), but after all these years I now believe that alien eggs can take root and sustain themselves on virtually any substance via the tendrils growing out of their base.

So my theory is that a premature egg oozed out of the queen's wound and into the landing bay's subflooring where it continued to grow until it could produce a viable facehugger.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Sep 12, 2012, 03:53:20 AM
Quote from: RaisingCane on Sep 12, 2012, 01:21:10 AM
So my theory is that a premature egg oozed out of the queen's wound and into the landing bay's subflooring where it continued to grow until it could produce a viable facehugger.

With no one seeing it?  When did the premature egg "ooze" out of the queen?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Sep 12, 2012, 03:57:13 AM
From the "wound" that the acid dripped from?  I think?

I don't get it either...
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Sep 12, 2012, 04:01:56 AM
Quote from: SM on Sep 12, 2012, 03:57:13 AM
From the "wound" that the acid dripped from?  I think?

I think he means the queen's wound from tearing off the oviposter.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Sep 12, 2012, 04:16:14 AM
I do.

I figure the premature egg was little more than goo at that point, which would explain how it could seep under the floor grating and wind up positioned the way it was in the movie.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Sep 12, 2012, 04:19:23 AM
Well, that's certainly novel.

Why wouldn't it keep seeping through the grate onto the floor below?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Sep 12, 2012, 04:23:41 AM
I imagine that it started to congeal at some point and that's where it ended up taking root.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Sep 12, 2012, 04:26:27 AM
Ok.

Feasible I suppose.

One assumes that the facehugger that bursts from this egg is capable of facehugging two hosts?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Sep 12, 2012, 04:28:54 AM
Fine with me.  Maybe the queen instinctively pops out a queen egg when she knows her death is near.  Seems legit.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Sep 12, 2012, 04:30:54 AM
Quote from: RaisingCane on Sep 12, 2012, 04:28:54 AM
Fine with me.  Maybe the queen instinctively pops out a queen egg when it death is near.  Seems legit.

Well it would need to facehug two hosts because it would need to get Ripley and then it would need to get the dog.

So going by your theory, the egg that "congeals" into place and finally matures would hatch and then get ripley and then the dog.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Sep 12, 2012, 04:31:47 AM
srsly?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Sep 12, 2012, 04:33:43 AM
Quote from: SM on Sep 12, 2012, 04:31:47 AM
srsly?

I don't necessarly like it.  I prefer mine.

I don't like the idea of eggs being "goo" - it just doesn't feel natural to me.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Sep 12, 2012, 04:35:37 AM
We all started out as gooey eggs.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Sep 12, 2012, 04:37:21 AM
Quote from: RaisingCane on Sep 12, 2012, 04:35:37 AM
We all started out as gooey eggs.

Not like this.

Don't get me wrong, the idea is feasible in the fictional world of Alien but ultimately it doesn't sit right with me.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Sep 12, 2012, 04:38:18 AM
I don't think it's remotely feasible, personally.

Why bother with the egg sac then?  She can spread shoot out mini eggs where she please and they'll grow into proper eggs, and she won't be tied to the one spot.

Might as well just barf them down someones thro-



oh...
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Sep 12, 2012, 04:39:44 AM
Quote from: SM on Sep 12, 2012, 04:38:18 AM
I don't think it's remotely feasible, personally.

Why bother with the egg sac then?  She can spread shoot out mini eggs where she please and they'll grow into proper eggs, and she won't be tied to the one spot.

Might as well just barf them down someones thro-



oh...

Well when you say it like that......

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Sep 12, 2012, 04:41:51 AM
Well, the egg sac would allow for the rapid production of fully functional eggs.  This method would be much slower.  Theoretically, a soldier alien could produce eggs the same way.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Sep 12, 2012, 04:49:03 AM
Nah, egg morphing ftw.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Sep 12, 2012, 05:05:05 AM
Quote from: SM on Sep 12, 2012, 04:38:18 AM
I don't think it's remotely feasible, personally.

Why bother with the egg sac then?  She can spread shoot out mini eggs where she please and they'll grow into proper eggs, and she won't be tied to the one spot.

Might as well just barf them down someones thro-



oh...

I just barfed down your throat.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Amaterasu on Sep 13, 2012, 04:24:04 AM
If that ever happened, I'd be like "see ya" and leave.  ;)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: p1nk81cd on Sep 13, 2012, 12:38:11 PM
Quote from: RaisingCane on Sep 12, 2012, 04:28:54 AM
Fine with me.  Maybe the queen instinctively pops out a queen egg when she knows her death is near.  Seems legit.

Heh, you can almost hear the Queen saying this while she falls from the Sulaco.
"You think you have won, you think all is well. Well kiss my Xeno ass, I shall see you in hell!"   ;D
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Amaterasu on Sep 13, 2012, 01:06:53 PM
Quote from: Mr. Runner on Sep 13, 2012, 12:38:11 PM
Quote from: RaisingCane on Sep 12, 2012, 04:28:54 AM
Fine with me.  Maybe the queen instinctively pops out a queen egg when she knows her death is near.  Seems legit.

Heh, you can almost hear the Queen saying this while she falls from the Sulaco.
"You think you have won, you think all is well. Well kiss my Xeno ass, I shall see you in hell!"   ;D

She did succeed, kinda..
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: p1nk81cd on Sep 13, 2012, 02:53:26 PM
True, true...Wonder where she is now?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on Sep 13, 2012, 03:21:39 PM
According to the novelization (cant remember if the script too) she got killed, pulled in by LV426's atmosphere
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Runner on Sep 13, 2012, 09:45:27 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Sep 13, 2012, 03:21:39 PM
According to the novelization (cant remember if the script too) she got killed, pulled in by LV426's atmosphere

Nah, the radiation reanimated her body.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: MrSpaceJockey on Sep 13, 2012, 09:50:48 PM
Not even radiation can resurrect an Alien burned to a crisp by LV-426's atmosphere.

The gravity itself would leave a splat of acid blood on the ground.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Runner on Sep 13, 2012, 09:54:26 PM
You know Pitchford will come up with something stupid of course....but canon.  :P
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Amaterasu on Sep 13, 2012, 10:29:33 PM
Quote from: MrSpaceJockey on Sep 13, 2012, 09:50:48 PM
Not even radiation can resurrect an Alien burned to a crisp by LV-426's atmosphere.

The gravity itself would leave a splat of acid blood on the ground.

Yeah, it would.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Inverse Effect on Sep 26, 2012, 09:25:51 PM
Maby Bishop was reprogrammed to pick up on where Burke failed? So he put the egg onto the ship.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on Sep 26, 2012, 09:36:43 PM
And where would he get it from? He never went into the hive or the derelict. He would also reveal his orders from Burke, as he did re: facehuggers in stasis
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Inverse Effect on Sep 26, 2012, 09:48:51 PM
Thinking on it though where did the other facehugeer come from though? We know there was on on the ship. But where did the other one come from which infected the dog/cow
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Gilfryd on Sep 26, 2012, 11:52:17 PM
The egg was supposed to have a super facehugger: it would implant one host with a queen (it tried Next, then went for Ripley) and then to protect that host it would also implant something else with a warrior (the ox, but in the final cut a dog). When Fox screwed things up they didn't use the super hugger and went with a normal one. I imagine for the assembly they couldn't do new shots of the super and used what they had.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Sep 27, 2012, 12:50:53 AM
Quote from: Gilfryd on Sep 26, 2012, 11:52:17 PM
The egg was supposed to have a super facehugger: it would implant one host with a queen (it tried Next, then went for Ripley) and then to protect that host it would also implant something else with a warrior (the ox, but in the final cut a dog). When Fox screwed things up they didn't use the super hugger and went with a normal one. I imagine for the assembly they couldn't do new shots of the super and used what they had.

This works for two aliens but it doesn't explain the big problem of the location of the egg.

How did the egg get there?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Sep 27, 2012, 01:38:33 AM
Quote from: Guts on Sep 26, 2012, 09:48:51 PM
Thinking on it though where did the other facehugeer come from though? We know there was on on the ship. But where did the other one come from which infected the dog/cow

TC - only one hugger that implants two hosts.
AC - two huggers - one in opening titles; another that Murphy finds dead.  Or there's one that grew spiky bits and armour plating after nailing Ripley.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SpaceMarines on Sep 27, 2012, 02:25:13 AM
Quote from: Guts on Sep 26, 2012, 09:25:51 PM
Maby Bishop was reprogrammed to pick up on where Burke failed? So he put the egg onto the ship.

Reprogrammed when? And by whom? He was ECA property, remember, not some piece of corporate hardware.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: chupacabras acheronsis on Sep 27, 2012, 02:27:30 AM
and didn't have wireless internet.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Sep 27, 2012, 02:29:22 AM
Quote from: SpaceMarines on Sep 27, 2012, 02:25:13 AM
Quote from: Guts on Sep 26, 2012, 09:25:51 PM
Maby Bishop was reprogrammed to pick up on where Burke failed? So he put the egg onto the ship.

Reprogrammed when? And by whom? He was USCM property, remember, not some piece of corporate hardware.

ECA property technically.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Gilfryd on Sep 27, 2012, 02:29:44 AM
Quote from: SM on Sep 27, 2012, 01:38:33 AMAC - two huggers - one in opening titles; another that Murphy finds dead.  Or there's one that grew spiky bits and armour plating after nailing Ripley.

I think the one in the credits was supposed to be the superhugger, but they filmed the scene after deciding it would get the dog intead so they went with a normal one. This is messed up in the assembly when they inserted one of the inmates finding the webbed super one.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Sep 27, 2012, 02:41:58 AM
Fact remains that the one whose fingers we see as well as on the scans isn't the big armour plated bugger.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Gilfryd on Sep 27, 2012, 02:49:21 AM
Quote from: SM on Sep 27, 2012, 02:41:58 AM
Fact remains that the one whose fingers we see as well as on the scans isn't the big armour plated bugger.

I know, because they were never shot that way, but it makes sense to me that they were supposed to. Not that it makes it canon or anything. Just more confusing.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Sep 27, 2012, 02:50:01 AM
Agreed.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Runner on Sep 27, 2012, 02:55:23 AM
Quote from: SM on Sep 27, 2012, 02:41:58 AM
Fact remains that the one whose fingers we see as well as on the scans isn't the big armour plated bugger.

Then shouldn't the Ox of had the Queen?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Sep 27, 2012, 03:00:46 AM
The answer to this question and many others is - it's Alien3.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Runner on Sep 27, 2012, 03:02:02 AM
Quote from: SM on Sep 27, 2012, 03:00:46 AM
The answer to this question and many others is - it's Alien3.

Well I take an edited version of Alien3 canon. Of which the Super Facehugger never appeared in(it was all dog). SPIKE FTW!!!!!


But it's fun to tinker with other theories.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Sep 27, 2012, 03:04:08 AM
Of course.  Just don't expect them to hold water.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SpaceMarines on Sep 27, 2012, 03:06:43 AM
Quote from: SM on Sep 27, 2012, 02:29:22 AM
ECA property technically.

Noted and fixed.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Runner on Sep 27, 2012, 03:07:36 AM
SM what other theories have been thrown around the community for awhile?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Sep 27, 2012, 03:12:01 AM
About what?  The egg?

Bishop did it.
Queen laid it en route.
Queen brought it with her.
It walked from the dropship to under the floor while no one was looking.
Another Alien was on the dropship and hid the egg.
It grew from Alien goo/ acid/ Bishop's legs.

Some obviously make a bit more sense than other, but I've never come across a theory that can take the events in the tiles as literal and have it all make sense.  Which is why I lean toward it being a dreamlike distortion of actual events from Ripleys POV.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Nightmare Asylum on Sep 27, 2012, 03:13:27 AM
Of the various ideas, I like the 'emergency egg' idea best. The Queen lays one egg, a Queen egg, once her eggsack is torn off. The special egg gives birth to not just a replacement queen, but also a drone to protect it.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Sep 27, 2012, 03:17:11 AM
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Sep 27, 2012, 03:13:27 AM
Of the various ideas, I like the 'emergency egg' idea best. The Queen lays one egg, a Queen egg, once her eggsack is torn off. The special egg gives birth to not just a replacement queen, but also a drone to protect it.

Again, it doesn't explain the LOCATION of the egg.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Sep 27, 2012, 03:18:10 AM
Dropship is the only place it can be.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Sep 27, 2012, 03:19:26 AM
Quote from: SM on Sep 27, 2012, 03:18:10 AM
Dropship is the only place it can be.

Some say.

But it looks like it is nowhere near the dropship.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Sep 27, 2012, 03:26:14 AM
Hence "dreamlike distorion of actual events".
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Sep 27, 2012, 03:31:45 AM
So, if we take for grantede the "dreamlike distortion of actual events" there are things that still need to be explained.

1. There were two aliens.
2. From Ripley's experience - one egg = one facehugger = one alien.
3. In order to account for the two aliens, we have to assume one of a few possible scenarios:
    * The queen laid two eggs on the dropship.
    * The queen laid one egg on the drop ship but the resulting facehugger can impregnate two hosts - one with a queen.
    * The queen laid one egg and there was another facehugger already on board - perhaps brought on board with the queen.

So even taking into account the dreamlike state, assumptions and theories still need to be put forth to explain what happened.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Sep 27, 2012, 03:33:01 AM
This one works for me:
Quote* The queen laid one egg on the drop ship but the resulting facehugger can impregnate two hosts - one with a queen.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Sep 27, 2012, 03:35:20 AM
Quote from: SM on Sep 27, 2012, 03:33:01 AM
This one works for me:
Quote* The queen laid one egg on the drop ship but the resulting facehugger can impregnate two hosts - one with a queen.


Well sure - but I suppose it's like you said, it's a theory that holds no more water then any other.

EDIT:

Sorry, I didn't mean any disrespect - the point I was making was that no matter what theory is put forward - given what we know from the film - they're all in the same boat - assumptions.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Sep 27, 2012, 03:36:24 AM
Yeah, it does.  When Ripley quizzes Bishop about the flight recorder they only talk about a single Alien.  Not plural.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Sep 27, 2012, 03:36:48 AM
Quote from: SM on Sep 27, 2012, 03:36:24 AM
Yeah, it does.  When Ripley quizzes Bishop about the flight recorder they only talk about a single Alien.  Not plural.

We've been over that.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Sep 27, 2012, 03:54:07 AM
Did we?
I've talked about so many times in the last 15 years that I lose track.
Either way it points to single Alien ergo "The queen laid one egg on the drop ship but the resulting facehugger can impregnate two hosts - one with a queen."
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Sep 27, 2012, 04:26:43 AM
Quote from: SM on Sep 27, 2012, 03:54:07 AM
Did we?
I've talked about so many times in the last 15 years that I lose track.
Either way it points to single Alien ergo "The queen laid one egg on the drop ship but the resulting facehugger can impregnate two hosts - one with a queen."


We did.

The conclusion I came to (though I think you disagreed) was that I was assuming certain things from that scene and you were assuming certain things from that scene - naturally they were different.

While I accept your premise, I still believe that yours is just as full of assumptions as mine or anyone else's.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Sep 27, 2012, 04:40:02 AM
I try to avoid assumptions as much as possible and clearly state when I don't.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Sep 27, 2012, 04:41:21 AM
And that's where we ended our last conversation.

I disagreed with you that you were not making assumptions.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Sep 27, 2012, 05:00:48 AM
I had this same conversation 20 years ago on Prodigy.  ;D
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Inverse Effect on Sep 27, 2012, 05:47:19 AM
Quote from: Gilfryd on Sep 27, 2012, 02:29:44 AM
Quote from: SM on Sep 27, 2012, 01:38:33 AMAC - two huggers - one in opening titles; another that Murphy finds dead.  Or there's one that grew spiky bits and armour plating after nailing Ripley.

I think the one in the credits was supposed to be the superhugger, but they filmed the scene after deciding it would get the dog intead so they went with a normal one. This is messed up in the assembly when they inserted one of the inmates finding the webbed super one.

That webbed one is a queen hugger though? Cos i know that thing was huge.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Sep 27, 2012, 06:36:02 AM
Quote from: SM on Sep 27, 2012, 04:40:02 AM
I try to avoid assumptions as much as possible and clearly state when I don't.

Has anyone ever assumed that maybe the egg contained two facehuggers?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Sep 27, 2012, 06:42:36 AM
Quote from: RaisingCane on Sep 27, 2012, 06:36:02 AM
Quote from: SM on Sep 27, 2012, 04:40:02 AM
I try to avoid assumptions as much as possible and clearly state when I don't.

Has anyone ever assumed that maybe the egg contained two facehuggers?

Probably - and this can be added to my list above.

I've still always argued that the problem is the LOCATION of the egg.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Sep 27, 2012, 07:07:33 AM
Since I'm a newbie here, what are some of the more plausible explanations for the location?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Sep 27, 2012, 07:20:03 AM
Dropship.
Hangar subflooring.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: thecaffeinatedone on Sep 27, 2012, 04:50:49 PM
I know how it got on the sulaco.  :) I've studied this problem for many years and gone over it scene and analyzed possible causes and I can assure you, the egg is on the sulaco becase...






















Spoiler
Lazy, bad writing and rushed shooting schedule. It's there because they needed a sequel and didn't have a plot. It's there because they assumed audiences wouldn't give a shit. It's there because 20th Century Fox wanted money. It's an unresolved, forever-ambiguous plot hole.
[close]
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Sep 27, 2012, 04:57:48 PM
Bishop brought the egg to the ship with a loose facehugger.  Hence the sounds at the end of Aliens credits.

Stop over analyzing this.  It is so simple.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Gilfryd on Sep 27, 2012, 05:04:26 PM
Quote from: SM on Sep 27, 2012, 03:36:24 AM
Yeah, it does.  When Ripley quizzes Bishop about the flight recorder they only talk about a single Alien.  Not plural.

Yeah, I was about to say.

"Was there an Alien on board?"

"It was with us the whole way."

Quote from: Guts on Sep 27, 2012, 05:47:19 AMThat webbed one is a queen hugger though? Cos i know that thing was huge.

Yes. I presume it was supposed to be the one creeping up on Newt in the opening, but when Fincher left and Fox took over they didn't care and just used a normal facehugger. When it comes to the stuff Fincher actually shot it would be the inmate finding the queen hugger with the unconscious ox. Fox later got rid of that and did the shot of the normal hugger getting the dog. The ox being replaced in the assembly cut messes with the shots of the opening with the normal hugger.


Quote from: Vermillion on Sep 27, 2012, 04:57:48 PM
Bishop brought the egg to the ship with a loose facehugger.  Hence the sounds at the end of Aliens credits.

Stop over analyzing this.  It is so simple.

I disagree with this. It goes against what Aliens was trying to say. We're meant to slowly trust Bishop like Ripley. He's the anti-Ash. Burke takes on that role, and in a way he's scarier because he's not a machine taking orders he chooses to be a scumbag.

"You don't see them f**king each other over for a goddamn percentage."
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Sep 27, 2012, 05:31:53 PM
Bishop stated Mr. Burke wanted the specimen brought back....hmmm. 

Serious people. The most obvious is the answer.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on Sep 27, 2012, 08:47:59 PM
Quote from: Vermillion on Sep 27, 2012, 05:31:53 PM
Bishop stated Mr. Burke wanted the specimen brought back....hmmm. 

Serious people. The most obvious is the answer.

Here are problems with it

-Bishop is a good character
-As you pointed out, he told Ripley that Burke wanted him to take the specimen for analysis. he wouldve told Ripley he brought more
-No point of him hiding the egg stuck upside down
-No way for him to hide it from Ripley. Ripley was with him in the dropship, and as soon as he exited, he was chopped in half. Ripley took care of him from then on and obviously he wasnt capable of anything
-He never went to the hive, he couldnt have have gotten the egg, and the only things in the lab were two dead facehuggers and two live ones blasted by Hudson
-Ripley would surely do a bioscan of the ship afterwards to make sure nothing else stowed away, since Alien 3 showed us it was possible, as the flight recorder noted alien presence
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Sep 27, 2012, 10:13:31 PM
Also, the two live facehuggers were still alive when Bishop left.  He didn't kill them as Ripley ordered, which means he had no reason to get more AND that Burke's orders stood whether Ripley liked them or not.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Sep 27, 2012, 10:28:41 PM
Bishop did it. Plain and simple.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Nightmare Asylum on Sep 27, 2012, 10:46:15 PM
Quote from: Vermillion on Sep 27, 2012, 10:28:41 PM
Bishop did it. Plain and simple.

The Queen did it. Extraordinary and complicated.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Sep 27, 2012, 10:57:58 PM
Quote from: Gilfryd on Sep 27, 2012, 05:04:26 PM
Quote from: SM on Sep 27, 2012, 03:36:24 AM
Yeah, it does.  When Ripley quizzes Bishop about the flight recorder they only talk about a single Alien.  Not plural.

Yeah, I was about to say.

"Was there an Alien on board?"

"It was with us the whole way."

This assumes Bishop was in perfect working order and knew what he was talking about when in fact we know he's not in perfect working order and even says so himself.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Sep 27, 2012, 11:21:07 PM
And this assumes the data from the flight recorder is faulty - which from the initial announcements, it isn't.

QuoteBishop stated Mr. Burke wanted the specimen brought back....hmmm. 

Serious people. The most obvious is the answer.

Serious people. This answer is utter bullshit.

QuoteHe didn't kill them as Ripley ordered, which means he had no reason to get more AND that Burke's orders stood whether Ripley liked them or not.

There's no time for Bishop to kill them.  He tells Ripley about Burkes order, Ripley confronts Burke, alarms go off and Alien get gunned down in tunnel, then Bishop tells them about the impending nuclear explosion.  It does raise an interesting dilemma for Bishop though.  He's bound to obey Burke, as there's no immediate danger from the huggers.  However is he bound to obey Ripley's opposing order?  It could be reasoned out that the Company will use the huggers to harm humans, so would Bishop's reasoning reach that far?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Sep 27, 2012, 11:34:21 PM
Quote from: SM on Sep 27, 2012, 11:21:07 PM
And this assumes the data from the flight recorder is faulty - which from the initial announcements, it isn't.

Where have I ever said or assumed that the data from the flight recorder is faulty?

I have made assumptions that Bishop was not lieing when he said "It's very dark here Ripley, I'm not what I used to be."

Bishop could be reading the data correctly and still only think there was one alien on board.  It's dependent on the data he was reading.  Just because he talks singularly doesn't prove that there was only one alien on board.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Gilfryd on Sep 28, 2012, 12:38:23 AM
If Bishop did it, which goes against his character, wouldn't they have made a point of it in the movie? Instead there's every indication that whatever it was snuck on board.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Nightmare Asylum on Sep 28, 2012, 12:41:19 AM
Quote from: Gilfryd on Sep 28, 2012, 12:38:23 AM
If Bishop did it, which goes against his character, wouldn't they have made a point of it in the movie? Instead there's every indication that whatever it was snuck on board.

Yep. Which is why its almost certain that ol'Queenie did it.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Sep 28, 2012, 06:19:14 AM
Quote from: SM on Sep 27, 2012, 11:21:07 PMIt does raise an interesting dilemma for Bishop though.  He's bound to obey Burke, as there's no immediate danger from the huggers.  However is he bound to obey Ripley's opposing order?  It could be reasoned out that the Company will use the huggers to harm humans, so would Bishop's reasoning reach that far?

That's the real question, isn't it?  How far will Bishop go to protect humans?  Those behavioral inhibitors of his could be a real problem if the marines ever got in a stand-up fight with other humans, couldn't they? 
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Sep 28, 2012, 07:05:05 AM
He couldn't really get involved unless it was to stop someone being hurt if he was able to.  Good chance he would've stepped in to protect Burke from being executed.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Sep 28, 2012, 07:44:57 AM
So do you think he'd go so far as to disobey Burke on the grounds that the company MIGHT harm humans while experimenting with the alien specimens?  Is Weyland-Yutani supposed to have a public reputation for committing atrocities?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Sep 28, 2012, 10:17:41 PM
The latter doesn't enter int it.  Bishop knows what the huggers are capable of if left alive and released from stasis.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Sep 29, 2012, 02:37:02 AM
True, although the same could be said about many of the potentially lethal things that Bishop interacts with on a daily basis.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Inverse Effect on Sep 29, 2012, 03:36:50 AM
could the huggers of been the the two from the tank?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Omegamorph on Sep 29, 2012, 05:25:51 AM
From the tank?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: bobby brown on Sep 29, 2012, 12:21:39 PM
The glass tanks on LV-426 I presume.
No, that would be very far fetched. besides, you see the egg(s) in the intro?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Omegamorph on Sep 29, 2012, 12:32:30 PM
They kind of shoot them to pieces, you know.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Sep 29, 2012, 01:00:42 PM
Wow. Just remember it took like 5 minutes for the marines to get from Sulaco to planet.

Bishop says something like this when Hicks asks him about the 2nd Dropship.

"the ship is on its way...ETA...16 minutes!"

Not very accurate for an artificial person now is it.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on Sep 29, 2012, 02:21:44 PM
Not sure if serious...but the landing was obviously edited down as they wouldnt show full 16 minutes. It was more than 16 minutes too, the ship was already on the way when Bishop said its 16 more minutes
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Sep 29, 2012, 10:20:20 PM
Quote from: Vermillion on Sep 29, 2012, 01:00:42 PM
Wow. Just remember it took like 5 minutes for the marines to get from Sulaco to planet.

Bishop says something like this when Hicks asks him about the 2nd Dropship.

"the ship is on its way...ETA...16 minutes!"

Not very accurate for an artificial person now is it.

Bishop says flight time is 50 minutes.  Which is backed up by the mission time on the marines cameras just after they land.

Do try and pay attention.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Inverse Effect on Sep 30, 2012, 07:20:40 AM
Maby it was bishop. Well dont forget about the alien sounds after the credits.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Sep 30, 2012, 06:43:36 PM
Bishop did it. Please stop with the queen laying them/ bringing them in her arms. 

Maybe bishop was face hugged at the uplink dish and he captured it cause it couldn't implant the embryo? Then he put the higher in on of those cases his laptop was sitting on.

How about them apples.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SiL on Sep 30, 2012, 10:24:46 PM
And the egg ... ?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Sep 30, 2012, 10:51:36 PM
Well Bishop was alone for a long time. He could of ran in pick one up and placed it in the same canister.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Sep 30, 2012, 11:08:01 PM
Bishop is First Lawed.  Bringing an egg on the drop ship would violate that.  If he's reprogrammed to violate that First Law, then he violated his reprogramming by taking Ripley to the AP and then sticking around to pick her.

Bishop DID stick around, obeying his core programming, and disproving dopey "Bishop did it" arguments.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Snowdog on Sep 30, 2012, 11:52:35 PM
I'm not a pro Bishop did it kind of guy. But it is possible. In every alien related movie the android had a hidden agenda. Ash was trying to get the alien back to the company. Call was investegating on her own because of the cloning. David did all kinds of stuff even though Weyland gave him commands which explain some of his actions, but David also did a lot of stuff Weyland didn't ask of him. Could be that Bishop had a hidden agenda also.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 01, 2012, 12:04:57 AM
Where's the evidence to back it up?

Bishop is the anti-Ash.  You suspect him because of Ash and Ripley's perspective on Ash.  Yet the only thing ever does that's slightly suspicious is not answer Spunkmeyer right away.  It's all misdirection.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Oct 01, 2012, 02:22:05 AM
You were misdirected, perfectly, it seems.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 01, 2012, 02:25:50 AM
No, I actually watched the movie.

Bit more rewarding than dumbf**k trolling.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 01, 2012, 06:07:24 PM
I'd like for one of these "Bishop did it" people to watch the movie and tell us when Bishop actually had an opportunity to do all the myriad things they think he did.  The camera cut back to him frequently, and every time it did he was either busily crawling through the pipe or working at the uplink tower.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Oct 01, 2012, 08:02:03 PM
So when did the queen do it then?

Right back at you...
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 01, 2012, 08:14:45 PM
I don't think she did.  I think she either dripped some goo into the subflooring that congealed and grew into an egg OR she injected Bishop with genetic material when she speared him with her tail which egg-morphed the lower half of his body.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Runner on Oct 01, 2012, 09:29:45 PM
Quote from: RaisingCane on Oct 01, 2012, 08:14:45 PM
I don't think she did.  I think she either dripped some goo into the subflooring that congealed and grew into an egg OR she injected Bishop with genetic material when she speared him with her tail which egg-morphed the lower half of his body.
And wouldn't that cause his upper half to egg morph? And the fact that in A:CM that his legs are still there.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on Oct 01, 2012, 09:30:23 PM
Quote from: RaisingCane on Oct 01, 2012, 08:14:45 PM
I don't think she did.  I think she either dripped some goo into the subflooring that congealed and grew into an egg OR she injected Bishop with genetic material when she speared him with her tail which egg-morphed the lower half of his body.

Or she laid an egg in the dropship's bay and the suction pulled it out and it got stuck to whatever it is it was awkwardly stuck to
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 01, 2012, 10:12:25 PM
Quote from: The Runner on Oct 01, 2012, 09:29:45 PMAnd wouldn't that cause his upper half to egg morph? And the fact that in A:CM that his legs are still there.

His upper half was cryogenically frozen in hypersleep.  And does anyone really care what A:CM shows?

Besides, I'm more partial to the goo theory anyway.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Oct 02, 2012, 04:38:07 PM
Bishop knew the egg was onboard the whole time though. Goo congealing into an egg. Wtf, I'd like to know when the queen shat that out.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Oct 02, 2012, 05:07:52 PM
So are you suggesting that Bishop's behavioral programming could be easily overruled by a sinster SO-937 type order that was already installed?

Most likely impossible in-universe, and makes no sense as Bishop had plenty of opportunities to acquire a specimen.  He would've taken advantage of Burke and all of his antics, too.

I've been thinking that the placement of the egg, as well as the time the queen spent on the Sulaco, are meant to suggest that she 'stuck' the egg somewhere under the floor grates while pursuing Newt.  It could've been a different section that was just off camera in the film.

Hell, she could've stuck it down there to get at Newt specifically.  The placement fits with the queen reaching down and sticking it to the beam.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 02, 2012, 06:02:50 PM
Quote from: Vermillion on Oct 02, 2012, 04:38:07 PM
Bishop knew the egg was onboard the whole time though. Goo congealing into an egg. Wtf, I'd like to know when the queen shat that out.

Bishop didn't know anything until Ripley plugged him into the ship's flight recorder.

And the queen could have shat out the goo at any point that she was trudging around the landing bay chasing Newt or fighting Ripley.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on Oct 02, 2012, 06:05:52 PM
Quote from: RagingDragon on Oct 02, 2012, 05:07:52 PM
So are you suggesting that Bishop's behavioral programming could be easily overruled by a sinster SO-937 type order that was already installed?

Most likely impossible in-universe, and makes no sense as Bishop had plenty of opportunities to acquire a specimen.  He would've taken advantage of Burke and all of his antics, too.

I've been thinking that the placement of the egg, as well as the time the queen spent on the Sulaco, are meant to suggest that she 'stuck' the egg somewhere under the floor grates while pursuing Newt.  It could've been a different section that was just off camera in the film.

Hell, she could've stuck it down there to get at Newt specifically.  The placement fits with the queen reaching down and sticking it to the beam.

Bishop was watching her all the time tho
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Oct 02, 2012, 06:16:39 PM
True
Quote from: StrangeShape on Oct 02, 2012, 06:05:52 PM
Bishop was watching her all the time tho
True, but he was also ripped in half.  Could've had plenty of damage.

Also, just because he was watching her doesn't mean the audience got to see everything the queen was doing.  There was a bit of a gap after Ripley closes the hangar door before she suits up.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Oct 02, 2012, 06:17:00 PM
Nobody was watching bishop flying the Dropship after he dropped Ripley off. Hicks was out cold.

At least you saw the Dropship rise from the processing station's bowels. Right where the eggs were laid!

Queen did not have an egg with her. Do you see one when she is getting outta the elevator? 
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Oct 02, 2012, 06:42:51 PM
50 minutes flight time?  That's over an hour and a half round-trip.

And the dropship landed on a high platform...

I don't personally buy the queen-carrying-egg, but prefer the emergency egg (which I believe would be created by bathing a standard, but premature, egg with Royal Jelly, which could explain having an egg with no egg sac) and the super-hugger.

It's really the only explanation that makes any sense at all to me, though it still has plenty of holes.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Omegamorph on Oct 02, 2012, 06:51:12 PM
I personally like the theory following which Cosmo and Wanda made the egg appear there -- after Timmy wished for it to happen.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Oct 02, 2012, 10:03:37 PM
Quote from: Vermillion on Oct 02, 2012, 04:38:07 PM
Bishop knew the egg was onboard the whole time though. Goo congealing into an egg. Wtf, I'd like to know when the queen shat that out.

No he didn't.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on Oct 02, 2012, 10:25:19 PM
Quote from: Vermillion on Oct 02, 2012, 06:17:00 PM


At least you saw the Dropship rise from the processing station's bowels. Right where the eggs were laid!



Which ones, the ones that Ripley just burned, threw grenades at, and collapsing station and explosions in the last minutes turned to dust? And how would Ripley miss him? She went down into the hive in minutes, not to mention aliens wouldnt let him take any of the eggs. Gunfire or battle wouldve been audible, if Bishop was somewhat able to quickly teleport to the egg chamber before Ripley got it
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 02, 2012, 11:10:43 PM
Bishop getting an egg places the humans in danger, which he programmed not to do and, oddly enough, he never does.

Quote[Also, just because he was watching her doesn't mean the audience got to see everything the queen was doing.  There was a bit of a gap after Ripley closes the hangar door before she suits up.

There's no gap.  The Queen is ripping up floor plates trying to get Newt and Bishop is watching her do it.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Oct 03, 2012, 01:12:14 AM
Quote from: SM on Oct 02, 2012, 11:10:43 PM
Bishop getting an egg places the humans in danger, which he programmed not to do and, oddly enough, he never does.

Quote[Also, just because he was watching her doesn't mean the audience got to see everything the queen was doing.  There was a bit of a gap after Ripley closes the hangar door before she suits up.

There's no gap.  The Queen is ripping up floor plates trying to get Newt and Bishop is watching her do it.

Wouldn't flying Ripley into the atmospheric processor (about to go nuclear) filled with aliens with razor sharp teeth and sword like tails, be putting humans in danger?

He used that plan to grab the egg people!
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Oct 03, 2012, 01:19:03 AM
Quote from: Vermillion on Oct 03, 2012, 01:12:14 AM
Quote from: SM on Oct 02, 2012, 11:10:43 PM
Bishop getting an egg places the humans in danger, which he programmed not to do and, oddly enough, he never does.

Quote[Also, just because he was watching her doesn't mean the audience got to see everything the queen was doing.  There was a bit of a gap after Ripley closes the hangar door before she suits up.

There's no gap.  The Queen is ripping up floor plates trying to get Newt and Bishop is watching her do it.

Wouldn't flying Ripley into the atmospheric processor (about to go nuclear) filled with aliens with razor sharp teeth and sword like tails, be putting humans in danger?

He used that plan to grab the egg people!

Not directly.  Bishops quote "It is impossible for me to harm or by omission of action, allow to be harmed, a human being."

He is not harming Ripley by flying her in.

He does not leave and picks her and newt up completly fulfilling that quote.

Whereas the whole point of Bishop getting the egg is so that the facehugger can get a human in direct contradiction to that quote.

Yes he could have been lying but all evidence - ALL EVIDENCE points to the fact that he wasn't.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Oct 03, 2012, 01:28:41 AM
Wow.  He knows it goes nuke. He knows those things kill humans. He know Ripley is going in way over matched and out manned/aliened. He also knows the facility is falling apart!
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Oct 03, 2012, 01:30:23 AM
Quote from: Vermillion on Oct 03, 2012, 01:28:41 AM
Wow.  He knows it goes nuke. He knows those things kill humans. He know Ripley is going in way over matched and out manned/aliened. He also knows the facility is falling apart!

Correct - but he also knew that Ripley would have blown his head off if he refused.

He's not harming her.  An alien might harm her.  The explosion might.  But Bishops direct actions have not harmed her.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on Oct 03, 2012, 01:37:42 AM
Not to mentipn there wpuld be no reason to save her. If he got the  egg  why  not  leave  her
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Oct 03, 2012, 01:38:08 AM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Oct 03, 2012, 01:37:42 AM
Not to mentipn there wpuld be no reason to save her. If he got the  egg  why  not  leave  her

bingo.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 03, 2012, 01:53:29 AM
Yep.

Bishop flying Ripley into the AP isn't harming her, because he knows that there is time for Ripley to potentially save Newt.  If it was ten minutes later he might violated his second law in order to keep the first intact.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 03, 2012, 07:01:56 AM
I now wonder if androids have a verbal override command that Hicks may have used before he passed out.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 03, 2012, 07:06:29 AM
"Kiss me, Bishop."
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Amaterasu on Oct 03, 2012, 01:00:37 PM
Quote from: SM on Oct 03, 2012, 07:06:29 AM
"Kiss me, Bishop."

Oh my god.  :laugh:

Quote from: RaisingCane on Oct 03, 2012, 07:01:56 AM
I now wonder if androids have a verbal override command that Hicks may have used before he passed out.

Who knows, maybe, maybe not. It could be possible..
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Oct 03, 2012, 03:09:48 PM
This is turning into a fun 3-laws loophole discussion.

But I'd like to point out that Ash was a company synthetic (whose nature was hidden from Dallas), and Bishop was a military synthetic.  If WY could've gotten to Bishop, I'm sure they would have, either as a backup plan in case of Burke's failure or alternate means of acquiring an egg.

Bishop would've been a lot more successful than Burke, and a lot less obvious due to his nature.  It was clear whose side Burke was on from the beginning, no surprise there.  He only revealed how far he was willing to go by the end.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 03, 2012, 06:12:56 PM
There must be some loopholes to Bishop's programming or else he'd be one hell of a potential liability for a squad of combat troops to hang out with.  Imagine him bounding over a stack of sandbags during a firefight to go play medic for some injured terrorist.  And that's assuming Bishop doesn't take the bullet for him to begin with.

The whole "omission of action" clause would quickly turn into a pain in the ass.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Oct 03, 2012, 07:21:13 PM
Good points.  I think that's why he plays more of a support role in the film; probably has a very strictly defined role within the squad.  Can't have an expensive synthetic charging out into a firefight trying to rescue someone who's wounded when human soldiers are so much cheaper.

The 3 laws most likely apply to Bishop's personal actions, not to things going down in the general environment.  He has to be limited by the specifics of his job, but these limitations wouldn't override his core behavioral inhibitors.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 03, 2012, 11:32:51 PM
Bishop isn't military - he's ECA.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Oct 03, 2012, 11:54:34 PM
Quote from: SM on Oct 03, 2012, 11:32:51 PM
Bishop isn't military - he's ECA.

ECA?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 03, 2012, 11:56:45 PM
Extrasolar Colonisation Administration aka Colonial Administration.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Oct 03, 2012, 11:58:51 PM
Quote from: SM on Oct 03, 2012, 11:56:45 PM
Extrasolar Colonisation Administration aka Colonial Administration.

How do we know that exactly?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 04, 2012, 12:01:09 AM
QuoteThe ship is fully automated in interstellar flight so
        there is no crew, except for EXECUTIVE OFFICER (ECA) Bishop,
        who supervises planetary maneuvering.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Oct 04, 2012, 12:03:48 AM
Thanks for answering my question, or not.

Where is that from?  is it from the script?  is it from the novelisation? is it from the Colonial Marines Technical Manual?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 04, 2012, 12:04:57 AM
Sorry, thought it was obvious it was from the script.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Oct 04, 2012, 12:08:51 AM
Quote from: SM on Oct 04, 2012, 12:04:57 AM
Sorry, thought it was obvious it was from the script.

Well I assumed it was from the script - but really it could have been from anywhere.

But that's ok.  Thanks.

Which leads me to another question which may not be appropriate to ask here (if not let me know).

I suppose this goes back to the old canon debate.

But if something is written in the script and lets say it's the final working script, but it does not appear in the film.  Say a piece of dialogue is cut (for whatever reason) or whatever, can we take the script as canon, or is it a matter of "if it's not in the movie, it's not canon?"

That may not be necessarily appropriate for things like this which is simply a description of someone's title and what they do.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 04, 2012, 12:15:59 AM
It's personal preference.

Bishop's position isn't detailed in the film, but people assume he's part of the USCM.  Personally, I believe scripted material that's not disputed by the final film is fair game, so I'll bring up that Bishop isn't part of the USCM.  Though he obviously works hand in hand with them.

On the other hand, the same script describes Bishop being awake the whole flight - this is clearly contradicted by the film, so can't be canon.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 04, 2012, 12:18:01 AM
We only know that Van Leuwen is ICC from the script too.  Some people assume he's with Weyland-Yutani for some reason.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 04, 2012, 12:33:43 AM
We can sorta kinda glean from the film who Van Leuwen works for.  The ICC would be in a position to revoke Ripley's license, moreso than WY.

Though I'd never actually thought about it till you mentioned it.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 04, 2012, 12:38:38 AM
I've had to clarify it before to people who were convinced that Van Leuwen was the nefarious ringleader of the whole conspiracy.

I also had to point out that the "42 million" guy and the "300 surveyed worlds" lady were insurance company and ECA reps, respectively.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Oct 04, 2012, 12:46:25 AM
Quote from: SM on Oct 04, 2012, 12:15:59 AM
people assume he's part of the USCM.

Which is a fair assumption.

Quote from: SM on Oct 04, 2012, 12:15:59 AMPersonally, I believe scripted material that's not disputed by the final film is fair game,

In general I agree with you.  However it would depend on what it is exactly.  In the case regarding Bishop, I think it's fine to accept either and I'll go along with the script.

Quote from: SM on Oct 04, 2012, 12:15:59 AMThough he obviously works hand in hand with them.

Then there is Burke's comment about "we always have a synthetic on board".
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 04, 2012, 12:47:40 AM
And the fact he drives the APC and can fly the dropship.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 04, 2012, 01:00:02 AM
I always thought it was strange that Bishop is called the executive officer in the script.  Did he appear to have any authority over anyone in the film?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 04, 2012, 01:03:09 AM
No.  He's essentially equipment.  Bottom of the food chain.  Except for the Sulaco's computer. 
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Oct 04, 2012, 01:13:06 AM
The marines obviously knew Bishop well, but from the way Burke put it, he made it sound like Bishop was assigned to the ship, and not necessarily the marines.

I was thinking that another good question would be if the marines of the 2/9th were assigned to the Sulaco or rotated ship-to-ship during each deployment, like modern marines, but the lockers and other personal touches in the ship seem to suggest it's they're permanent station.  Same with the dropship, but it's possible that they could've loaded all of that stuff and got set up prior to leaving Gateway.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 04, 2012, 01:15:51 AM
Pretty sure Bishop served with the 2/9th whether they were all permanently assigned to the Sulaco or not.  Remember the knife scene?  They seemed well acquainted to me.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 04, 2012, 01:18:08 AM
I would think Bishop came with the ship and this group of marines had been assignment on the Sulaco for some time.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Oct 04, 2012, 01:19:02 AM
^ Me too.  Bet the answers in the Tech Manual if I had the gumption to get off my lazy ass and go read it. :laugh:
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 04, 2012, 01:20:35 AM
Is the CMTM generally regarded as canon?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 04, 2012, 01:25:29 AM
Again, personal preference.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 04, 2012, 01:32:08 AM
Good.  Because I've long been skeptical of its stated speed for the Sulaco and the alleged FTL capabilities of its EEVs.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 04, 2012, 03:24:01 AM
Never paid much attention to the Sulaco speed, but I just had another look and yeah, 0.74ly/day is too slow.  Should be around 1.8.  The length of the Sulaco is also wrong.

Not sure about EEV having FTL capability.  I can't find where it explicitly says they do.  Only that they're range is 1.4 parsecs - which admittedly is a fecking long way.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 04, 2012, 03:30:34 AM
IIRC, the 337 model EEV had no visible means of propulsion either.  It looked like it was just meant to drift through space and keep its occupants alive in hypersleep while awaiting rescue.

The fact that it made an uncontrolled crashlanding on Fiorina makes me believe that it was never designed to make planetfall, which the CMTM also tells us it has the capability of doing.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 04, 2012, 03:42:57 AM
I think it'd have to be able to make planetfall in some form.  My initial thought would been via parachutes, but this would limit the types of planets it could fall on.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 04, 2012, 03:49:40 AM
Most planets in the galaxy would be inhospitable to human life even if they were close enough for the EEV to reach. 

It also doesn't appear to have much in the way of provisions or even a weapons locker, which strikes me as odd for a military transport.

I figure EEVs were designed to be picked up in space just like the Narcissus was in Aliens.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 04, 2012, 03:52:05 AM
They do appear to be like that, what with, as you said, the lack of any visible engines.

Ideally if they did get caught in a planets gravity well, they should have enough fuel to put them into orbit and they just stay there until pickup.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Oct 04, 2012, 03:53:53 AM
**Warning: approaching possible Alien3 plot hole**
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 04, 2012, 03:56:08 AM
Add it to the list.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 04, 2012, 03:56:15 AM
True, although I saw no signs of even vernier thrusters on the thing before or during its descent into Fury's atmosphere.  Weird.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 04, 2012, 03:59:04 AM
Good thing there was water for it to fall in.  Couple of hundred meters to the left and it's all over red rover.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 04, 2012, 04:18:10 AM
This is all a big part of why I think that the EEV crashing on Fury was TOO coincidental, BTW.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 04, 2012, 04:29:12 AM
Dunno, sounds like a long bow being drawn.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 04, 2012, 04:33:16 AM
I know.  I have no love for the theories that Alien 3 has forced me to think up, but there you go.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Oct 04, 2012, 05:09:50 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when it ejects from the Sulaco, it's just the cryo-tubes floating in open space, wasn't it?

I might be trippin...
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 04, 2012, 05:48:35 AM
Consider yourself corrected.

It's five tubes inside a small space ship.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcolonialmarines.wikispaces.com%2Ffile%2Fview%2FAlien-eev01.JPG%2F32798551%2F374x196%2FAlien-eev01.JPG&hash=6856988177dbf5dfba73f267184e88448301cddc)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 04, 2012, 06:20:49 AM
I wonder why the Sulaco bothered sending an empty tube along for the ride.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Omegamorph on Oct 04, 2012, 12:56:17 PM
Or why a military vessel would screw itself up for a small fire, not wake up the crew but jettison it, etc.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SiL on Oct 04, 2012, 01:21:32 PM
The fire was in the cryo bay.

"Morning, guys! Enjoy the blazing inferno surrounding you."
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Omegamorph on Oct 04, 2012, 01:25:46 PM
"And while you're at it, use the extinguishers. They come in handy for this exciting event!"
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 04, 2012, 09:28:44 PM
IIRC, people need to time to warm up and "thaw out" of hypersleep.  It's not like jumping out of your bunk and just being a little groggy.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Oct 04, 2012, 09:39:03 PM
Good pic, you can still see the cryo tube bumps..  See, I was trippin. :laugh:

Aren't the military ships supposed to have an intelligent, Mother-style system that operates them during deep space flight?  This itches the old questions of where the ship was in-transit back to Earth and why they drifted by Fiorina anyway, but Colonial Marines will answer all that shit swimmingly, right?



(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa1.twimg.com%2Fprofile_images%2F1298115152%2Ftrollface_peeking_normal.jpg&hash=9d70042ae1d7969769e7db1d8b7492d60277ffc0)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on Oct 05, 2012, 02:37:19 AM
Well the novelization has a pretty good answer. The EEV is set to set its course and land wherever it senses  civilization and radio transmissions, thats why it gravitated towards one and only settlement on Fury
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Oct 05, 2012, 07:05:02 AM
^That's cool, but it didn't land very well.  Wait, I answered my own question by finding this article.  I bet one of you wrote this, it's pretty good. :laugh:

http://weyland-yutaniarchives.blogspot.com/2011/01/alien-3-why-did-eev-crash-land-other.html (http://weyland-yutaniarchives.blogspot.com/2011/01/alien-3-why-did-eev-crash-land-other.html)

Yes, I think in fact one of you did write it.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 05, 2012, 10:23:36 AM
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Oct 04, 2012, 01:25:46 PM
"And while you're at it, use the extinguishers. They come in handy for this exciting event!"

"Pity you'll be too dead of smoke inhalation to use them!"
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Omegamorph on Oct 05, 2012, 01:41:11 PM
"Unless you put specific masks on."

(And always better than what the Sulaco did do as an emergency procedure)

Apart from that, a military spaceship from the future kind of should have better measurements against a fire.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Gilfryd on Oct 05, 2012, 04:02:20 PM
Well the thing is there's no good reason for anything happening on the Sulaco... it's like an egg appearing on the Narcissus in beginning of Aliens. You would have to rewrite Alien 3 from scratch for anything to make sense. If Aliens was about going back to where the Derelict was 3 should have been about going where the Derelict originated.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Omegamorph on Oct 05, 2012, 05:19:47 PM
3 could have been all about Ripley going back to the Derelict Pilot race. Lovecraftian sort of tale.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 05, 2012, 07:35:20 PM
Unless the whole ship was in danger of a catastrophic explosion, I'd think that simply moving the cryotubes to the EEV was good enough.  At least it would get the sleeping passengers out of immediate harm's way.

Alas, we never saw what became of the Sulaco.  Luckily, we have the think tank at Gearbox Software to tell us that it survived and returned to LV-426.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on Oct 05, 2012, 07:37:21 PM
Quote from: RaisingCane on Oct 05, 2012, 07:35:20 PM
Unless the whole ship was in danger of a catastrophic explosion, I'd think that simply moving the cryotubes to the EEV was good enough.  At least it would get the sleeping passengers out of immediate harm's way.

Alas, we never saw what became of the Sulaco.  Luckily, we have the think tank at Gearbox Software to tell us that it survived and returned to LV-426.

Originally the whole ship was suppose to explode, and it was the explosion that propelled the EEV to Fury
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 05, 2012, 07:49:50 PM
Quote from: RagingDragon on Oct 05, 2012, 07:05:02 AM
^That's cool, but it didn't land very well.  Wait, I answered my own question by finding this article.  I bet one of you wrote this, it's pretty good. :laugh:

http://weyland-yutaniarchives.blogspot.com/2011/01/alien-3-why-did-eev-crash-land-other.html (http://weyland-yutaniarchives.blogspot.com/2011/01/alien-3-why-did-eev-crash-land-other.html)

Yes, I think in fact one of you did write it.
Nice article, but I'm still skeptical about the EEV being designed to fly through space and land on a planet.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 07, 2012, 08:20:58 AM
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Oct 05, 2012, 01:41:11 PM
"Unless you put specific masks on."

"Now have some fourth degree burns."
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Gates on Oct 07, 2012, 05:08:07 PM
Almost all of the lifeboats in the Alienverse seem to have been designed by morons (except perhaps for Rez)...we have to come up with fan-theories on why the EEV does what it does for it to make any sorta sense...those mini escape pods in Promethefuk are hilarious (unless you're meant to go into stasis, otherwise, good luck floating around in space for two years awaiting pick-up)...and the pièce de résistance, the Narcissus, the only lifeboat for a crew of seven that, oh-so-so-sorry, only carries two...lulz...

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 07, 2012, 05:55:26 PM
Was the Narcissus ever referred to in Alien as a lifeboat?  I thought it was designed first and foremost as a shuttle that could be used as a lifeboat by its pilot in an emergency.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Gates on Oct 07, 2012, 06:16:23 PM
To be honest, I'm not 100% sure...regardless of it's original purpose, it's the only escape option (in film) in the event of an emergency...should've been more thought out...I'm not certain but I think I remember ADF mentioning that there were two, but one was damaged on the landing and couldn't be used...still that only accounts for four crew members...
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: echobbase79 on Oct 07, 2012, 06:40:52 PM
Quote from: Gates on Oct 07, 2012, 05:08:07 PM
Almost all of the lifeboats in the Alienverse seem to have been designed by morons (except perhaps for Rez)...we have to come up with fan-theories on why the EEV does what it does for it to make any sorta sense...those mini escape pods in Promethefuk are hilarious (unless you're meant to go into stasis, otherwise, good luck floating around in space for two years awaiting pick-up)...and the pièce de résistance, the Narcissus, the only lifeboat for a crew of seven that, oh-so-so-sorry, only carries two...lulz...

LOL! :)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 07, 2012, 06:45:50 PM
To be fair, the emergency WAS self-inflicted.  The Nostromo was fine until Ripley scuttled it.

Whoever regulates commercial starship safety guidelines (ICC?) probably didn't foresee an alien bogeyman causing the entire crew to abandon ship as a scenario that needed to be planned for.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Gates on Oct 07, 2012, 07:06:48 PM
Of course not...but I imagine the hazards of space travel offer a plethora of reasons why there should be...

Quote from: echobbase79 on Oct 07, 2012, 06:40:52 PM
LOL! :)

;)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 07, 2012, 10:23:43 PM
Quote from: RaisingCane on Oct 07, 2012, 05:55:26 PM
Was the Narcissus ever referred to in Alien as a lifeboat?  I thought it was designed first and foremost as a shuttle that could be used as a lifeboat by its pilot in an emergency.

It's not referred to as a lifeboat, just a shuttle (at least in the first film).

The second shuttle (recently christened Salmacis) was the one that was inoperative.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on Oct 07, 2012, 10:40:02 PM
Quote from: SM on Oct 07, 2012, 10:23:43 PM


The second shuttle (recently christened Salmacis) was the one that was inoperative.

Where is that from? My memory's kinda rusty
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 07, 2012, 11:32:13 PM
Graham Langridge's Nostromo blueprint.  I think he and Martin Bower came up with the name.  Legitimised (kinda) when it shipped with Alien Vault.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 08, 2012, 03:37:53 AM
I always wondered why they didn't just use the Narcissus to land on LV-426.  It would seem to be an obvious scenario in which to use a shuttle.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on Oct 08, 2012, 03:45:19 AM
Quote from: RaisingCane on Oct 08, 2012, 03:37:53 AM
I always wondered why they didn't just use the Narcissus to land on LV-426.  It would seem to be an obvious scenario in which to use a shuttle.

I think Cameron mentioned this idea, but it would completely go over the theme of Ripleys psychological journey. She comes back willingly to fight her trauma, and that makes it more engaging and interesting than just making her drift back by default
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 08, 2012, 03:47:31 AM
I meant instead of detaching their payload and landing the whole Nostromo.  Why didn't Dallas, Kane and Lambert just take the shuttle?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Oct 08, 2012, 03:48:33 AM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Oct 08, 2012, 03:45:19 AM
Quote from: RaisingCane on Oct 08, 2012, 03:37:53 AM
I always wondered why they didn't just use the Narcissus to land on LV-426.  It would seem to be an obvious scenario in which to use a shuttle.

I think Cameron mentioned this idea, but it would completely go over the theme of Ripleys psychological journey. She comes back willingly to fight her trauma, and that makes it more engaging and interesting than just making her drift back by default

While that's not what Raisingcane meant - I think this is much more powerful then anything Alien 3 gave us.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 08, 2012, 04:17:01 AM
Quote from: RaisingCane on Oct 08, 2012, 03:47:31 AM
I meant instead of detaching their payload and landing the whole Nostromo.  Why didn't Dallas, Kane and Lambert just take the shuttle?

They needed the Nostromo to be all kinds of broken for later on.

In-universe - maybe the shuttle isn't built for atmospheric re-entry...?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on Oct 08, 2012, 04:23:04 AM
Quote from: SM on Oct 08, 2012, 04:17:01 AM


In-universe - maybe the shuttle isn't built for atmospheric re-entry...?

Thats what I thought too. It seemed like the giant Nostromo was quite bumpy when descending through the atmosphere. If so, a tiny ship like Narcissus wouldnt be able to withstand all that, and also I believe they needed the whole crew there with them. Everyone was necessary, navigator, medic, captain, engineers etc. Thats what the novelization infers too
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 08, 2012, 04:25:20 AM
QuoteIf so, a tiny ship like Narcissus wouldnt be able to withstand all that,

57 years later - not so much.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 08, 2012, 05:50:26 AM
Quote from: SM on Oct 08, 2012, 04:17:01 AM
In-universe - maybe the shuttle isn't built for atmospheric re-entry...?

I can't recall, but did the CMTM invent any such capabilities for the Narcissus like it did for the EEV?  I don't have a copy handy.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 08, 2012, 06:16:59 AM
Yeah I'm pretty sure it did.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Oct 13, 2012, 01:53:16 PM
It is all Alien3's fault.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Amaterasu on Oct 13, 2012, 09:02:54 PM
There would have been no Xeno's at all if nobody touched anything.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: EGM1966 on Oct 22, 2012, 05:15:19 PM
The Egg on the Sulaco is a weak narrative failure - indeed arguably a huge continuity error - driven by the desperate need to make any kind of Alien film by a certain date despite a finished script.

There is no point trying to understand it more than that.  The entire opening sequence is a minefield of actual continuity errors (is Ripley's cryotube broken or .not?) combined with what are essentially cannon continuity errors (such as eggs only opening when a host is right next to it).  It's beautifully shot and edited but nonetheless a mess.

Strange Shapes I believe has a pretty great (and damning) dissection of the entire sequence.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 22, 2012, 08:11:47 PM
The glass on Ripley's tube was broken by the exploding bolt and it was, IIRC, shown broken in every scene thereafter.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: EGM1966 on Oct 23, 2012, 09:58:03 AM
Quote from: RaisingCane on Oct 22, 2012, 08:11:47 PM
The glass on Ripley's tube was broken by the exploding bolt and it was, IIRC, shown broken in every scene thereafter.
Nope.  There are a couple of shots later in the sequence where the glass is clearly unbroken again - you're incorrect I believe. 

Then there's the fact we see a single egg yet two people/creatures get impregnated... nah the sequence is a bit of a mess really - fast cuts and beautiful imagery covering up it doesn't tie together?  I mean what's the idea with the blood smear?  Nobody at that point could have been bleeding (Ripley and Newt are clearly shown without chest wounds and Hicks only get's mangled in the crash.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 23, 2012, 06:14:44 PM
Here are all the shots of her tube after the bolt explodes (from the special edition Blu-ray).

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi47.tinypic.com%2Fo8xhyc.jpg&hash=81e60149f96ea01bde385bdb9110b6adf2e8ffe3)

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi46.tinypic.com%2Fekjdz4.jpg&hash=36a95a7703abdd7a5e7fec74142ab143a32b981d)

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi47.tinypic.com%2F2uj4juv.jpg&hash=9308951d5d69f1a15d459ecb731f8ef858039e97)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: EGM1966 on Oct 23, 2012, 08:56:53 PM
Quote from: RaisingCane on Oct 23, 2012, 06:14:44 PM
Here are all the shots of her tube after the bolt explodes (from the special edition Blu-ray).

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi47.tinypic.com%2Fo8xhyc.jpg&hash=81e60149f96ea01bde385bdb9110b6adf2e8ffe3)

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi46.tinypic.com%2Fekjdz4.jpg&hash=36a95a7703abdd7a5e7fec74142ab143a32b981d)

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi47.tinypic.com%2F2uj4juv.jpg&hash=9308951d5d69f1a15d459ecb731f8ef858039e97)
There are side shots when the cryotube drops down where it appears clearly unbroken on my BR disk.  Also there appears to be a quick shot Ripley is red shaded with no break in the glass.  The tubes themselves are an even bigger continuity error.  Cameron at least worked to make the interior match the Narcissus seen in Alien - the cryotubes in Alien 3 are clearly a completely different design from Aliens - so somehow while in transit their entire cryotube area got re-modeled? 

I know Fincher was doing the best he could but the sequence is clearly flawed, in part it appears down to unfilmed sequences that would have provided some continuity.  As it is you see one Egg open, a facehugger crack Newt's tube, then Ripley's tube cracked (I think it's ambigous whether it's the bolt or supposed to be the result of a facehugger from the cutting) then when they splash down Newt drowns due to her cracked tube while Ripley doesn't drown despite having an equally cracked tube... and then there's the little matter of why neither Newt or Ripley are actually shown with a facehugger on them when the tubes are loaded into the escape capsule.  In Alien (and strongly implied in Aliens) the facehugger remains on for quite a while as it impregnates it's victim, yet in Alien 3 the thing gets into their tubes and out again in a ridiculously short time - then somehow it still winds up in the escape capsule anyway.

I actually like Alien 3 in terms of the cinematography and some of the sequences but the picture is fatally flawed from start to finish in terms of continuity particularly with regard to what had been established beforehand regarding the creatures behavioral patterns.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 23, 2012, 09:09:49 PM
Quote from: EGM1966 on Oct 23, 2012, 08:56:53 PMThere are side shots when the cryotube drops down where it appears clearly unbroken on my BR disk.  Also there appears to be a quick shot Ripley is red shaded with no break in the glass.
I think you're referring to the shots of Newt's tube dropping into place and Ripley's tube immediately prior to the exploding bolt.  In fact, it looks like that's Ripley's tube to the left of Newt's in the second shot below and it certainly appears broken to me.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi46.tinypic.com%2F6944n8.jpg&hash=7083397e1df6209e2aa0640bc65c19a9f390e867)

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.tinypic.com%2F351tuh2.jpg&hash=6a09b86e0f1567a5c21e724d0bd7fb3d971a8d31)

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi50.tinypic.com%2F290vcj7.jpg&hash=ce1172fc1e98e533b8920e67b2a13d28cb6b77b6)

Quote from: EGM1966 on Oct 23, 2012, 08:56:53 PMand then there's the little matter of why neither Newt or Ripley are actually shown with a facehugger on them when the tubes are loaded into the escape capsule.  In Alien (and strongly implied in Aliens) the facehugger remains on for quite a while as it impregnates it's victim, yet in Alien 3 the thing gets into their tubes and out again in a ridiculously short time - then somehow it still winds up in the escape capsule anyway.
Not a problem if you just assume it's on Hicks.  We never see him.

As for the mysterious self-repairing crack on Newt's tube, ain't technology great (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp2uVMrXTyY#t=0m50s)?   ;D
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 23, 2012, 10:15:45 PM
QuoteAlso there appears to be a quick shot Ripley is red shaded with no break in the glass. 

That's because it's before the explosion.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 23, 2012, 10:17:39 PM
How does SM usually rationalize the disappearing crack on Newt's tube?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 23, 2012, 10:31:29 PM
SM says the opening sequence is Ripley's hypersleep dream and a distorted version of what's really happening.

Literally - there is no explanation for the magic repairing cryotube.  Same as how there's no literal explanation for the position of the egg or the different cryotubes.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 23, 2012, 11:56:16 PM
The only thing I can't explain is the different cryotubes.

Unless...

Isn't Aliens: Infestation canon now?  ;D
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 24, 2012, 12:08:25 AM
nuh COLONial mareins lol
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Oct 24, 2012, 12:59:44 AM
I hear Gearbox is making A:CM to fit seamlessly with A:I.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Valaquen on Oct 24, 2012, 05:34:01 AM
Quote from: RaisingCane on Oct 23, 2012, 11:56:16 PM
The only thing I can't explain is the different cryotubes.
Fincher preferred the Alien design tubes.

...

Oh, in-universe? Uh ... pass!  ;D
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: enyapneb on Oct 25, 2012, 10:12:50 PM
If you watch the DC Alien 3 you will see the prisoner holds a larger face hugger (queen) which I read could lay 2x eggs. One would be a drone the other a queen.

The non Alien 3 DC shows the face hugger in the ship and the evac pod - it gives the impression that hugger can lay twice, rip then the dog.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: echobbase79 on Oct 27, 2012, 02:44:08 AM

I've always wondered could the movie play just fine without that opening scene and just start on the prison planet with Clemons walking on the beach.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: whiterabbit on Oct 27, 2012, 03:21:39 AM
I don't see why not but then everyone would be complaining why they didn't show what happened. :P
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 27, 2012, 04:12:54 AM
You'd need some sort of explanation.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: echobbase79 on Oct 27, 2012, 04:28:58 AM
Wouldn't the scene where Ripley learns what happened from Bishop be enough?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: whiterabbit on Oct 27, 2012, 06:46:28 AM
Well I suppose it would be kind of like cutting the facehugger attack on Ripley and Newt and then having them lynch burk.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SiL on Oct 27, 2012, 06:53:37 AM
Quote from: SM on Oct 27, 2012, 04:12:54 AM
You'd need some sort of explanation.
I think talking to Bishop would fill the gap fine. Ward's script had plenty of issues, but not showing what went down on the Sulaco wasn't really one of them. The big issue of the egg on the ship isn't so much its existence as its placement, and the confusion as to whether it's one impregnating two hosts or two huggers. Remove the opening sequence, have Ripley ask "Was there an Alien on board", keep the Super Facehugger -- I reckon most of your problems would be fixed.

Not in the neatest way, but better to have vague hand waving and let the audience figure it all out, than try to show what's going on, and just make a mess of it. IMO, anyway.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Oct 27, 2012, 03:09:08 PM
...Alien 3 and 4 turn out to be the dream Ripley had in her Cryo-tube on her return journey to Gateway station.

Ripley wakes in tube...

...roll credits of A:CM....

Exterior shot of Gateway, Sulaco orbiting dark earth...

Hicks voice over begins......
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Nightmare Asylum on Oct 27, 2012, 03:21:08 PM
...Alien turns out to be a dream Ripley had on the Nostromo on the way back to Earth.

Ripley wakes in tube...

...roll credits of Ripley's Adventure Home...

Exterior shot of Nostromo, headed towards Earth...

Ripley voice over begins...

;)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Oct 28, 2012, 10:22:17 PM
QuoteI think talking to Bishop would fill the gap fine.

Yeah that would probably work come to think of it.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Gilfryd on Oct 29, 2012, 12:06:24 AM
Quote from: Valaquen on Oct 24, 2012, 05:34:01 AMFincher preferred the Alien design tubes.

Which I think was a bullshit move after Cameron stuck to Scott's design sense and slowly moved to something more his style. The first time you see the Sulaco in Aliens is when it really becomes his movie visually.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Oct 29, 2012, 01:40:46 AM
Quote from: Gilfryd on Oct 29, 2012, 12:06:24 AM
Quote from: Valaquen on Oct 24, 2012, 05:34:01 AMFincher preferred the Alien design tubes.

Which I think was a bullshit move after Cameron stuck to Scott's design sense and slowly moved to something more his style. The first time you see the Sulaco in Aliens is when it really becomes his movie visually.

I agree.

I'm all for filmmakers putting their creative stamp on their film - but if you're making a sequel then i hate it when they disregard certain aspects.  Like that whole cyrotube thing.  I just think that's silly.

I happen to think that there is an artform to creating a sequel.  I think Cameron is a master at it.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: whiterabbit on Oct 29, 2012, 06:17:55 AM
No tubes was a better choice than the floppy tubes we got from that movie you know you all love.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: CainsSon on Dec 30, 2012, 04:31:12 AM
Quote from: SM on Oct 23, 2012, 10:31:29 PM
SM says the opening sequence is Ripley's hypersleep dream and a distorted version of what's really happening.

Literally - there is no explanation for the magic repairing cryotube.  Same as how there's no literal explanation for the position of the egg or the different cryotubes.

Right and the dreamlike storytelling is all that mattered because they were interested was meant to be expressionistic. That's not a plot hole. That's an artistic choice.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: whiterabbit on Dec 30, 2012, 05:59:59 AM
It was xeno-magic. Now you see it, now you don't.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Feb 22, 2013, 10:23:31 PM
Hey, can I temporarily derail this mother a bit? I want to know, and maybe you old salties have had this convo many times already,  but wouldn't WY most likely go to the Sulaco immediately following their departure at Fury, and collect the empty egg?

That would at least be something, with Weyland having the egg. I'm sure with a sophisticated team like that, they could break in to an old boat like the Sulaco and cover their tracks... what sayest thou?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Feb 23, 2013, 01:27:07 AM
???

Why would the team need to cover their tracks?  And so what if they have an empty egg?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 23, 2013, 02:28:40 AM
wait, are you talking A:CM canon...?

Why did they wake up Hicks, then let Ripley asleep until she and Newt got jettisoned(along with whoever that spaguetti man was), and THEN went to fetch Ripley in the Patna, if the Sulaco was already there?

Were they even in control of the Sulaco if aparently there was an outbreak? How did they get it back?

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Feb 23, 2013, 02:47:46 AM
naw naw, talking right after Alien3.

Quote from: stephen on Feb 23, 2013, 01:27:07 AM
Why would the team need to cover their tracks?  And so what if they have an empty egg?

Because boarding a USCM ship without authoritzation and taking something like the egg, which would be extremely important evidence to any investigation which would inevitably occur, is illegal. Not only could WY be charged with the above, but they would be implicated with the deaths of everyone at Fiorina and possibly at Hadleys if the USCM or ICC became aware that they knew about the dangerous organism (which everyone in Ripley's inquest had just heard about weeks earlier.)

They would have to remove every trace of the Alien egg, and leave the Sulaco as a mystery with missing cryotubes, acid damage, and a second dropship that was used. I think only WY would have the ability to pull something like that off.

But then Weyland would have an egg to study, at least. This could lead to something, eh? Some wild ass EU story... like the Terminators arm!
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 23, 2013, 03:16:19 AM
And asuming everything in Conestoga ships is automated, they would also have to hack into the ship mainframe to delete that docking and boarding instance from the logs, and that would be an act of espionage at the least or terrorism at the most.

That is, if Wey-Yu doesn't have it's mitts deep into the Colonial Marines' business already, as a lot of people believe.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: lizard5 on Jun 12, 2013, 04:36:45 AM
What if an alien drone saw the queen and followed her to the ship where he took the eggs she was holding,

quote from someone else: There's two ways this could've happened:
1) She rescued it from the nursery and hid it between the spines on her back

that's how the drone got the eggs from the queen, he then proceeded to place it, in the place where the egg in the movie (alien 3)
is seen and the other is placed somewhere off screen

Some would say "But what happened to the alien drone" well here's my answers

A: the alien is not seen and gets sucked out when Ripley opens the air lock

B: the alien is told by the queen to get more eggs so he goes back and then the ship takes off
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Salt The Fries on Jun 14, 2013, 05:52:54 AM
One other issue, Ripley should have still gotten a facehugger attached to her face when crashing. She'd rather get dislocated jaw first than we'd see facehugger letting go of its grip.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: DerelictShip on Jun 28, 2013, 02:53:37 AM
I just don't see it being the queen, she was to occupied with Ripley and you never saw her carrying an egg before she hitched a ride, and she couldnt lay it since she was not attached to her egg sac. Therefore, Bishop has to be the culprit as he was probably carrying out orders from Burk before he died.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jun 28, 2013, 04:06:54 AM
Bishop has no motive or opportunity.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Jun 28, 2013, 07:41:06 AM
Quote from: SM on Jun 28, 2013, 04:06:54 AM
Bishop has no motive or opportunity.

Ordered to do it is motive enough. 
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SiL on Jun 28, 2013, 09:26:35 AM
Cannot harm, or by omission of action allow to be harmed, a human being. Which would cover stowing an egg in an unsecured location.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: DerelictShip on Jun 28, 2013, 12:18:54 PM
Quote from: SM on Jun 28, 2013, 04:06:54 AM
Bishop has no motive or opportunity.

Dude, HE IS WORKING IN THE LAB ON FACEHUGGERS THE WHOLE MOVIE UNTIL THE END, god knows what else he found in there! Also when they had to leave newt and ripley for a few minutes, how the hell do we know he didnt stow an egg away in the dropship!
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jun 28, 2013, 08:54:42 PM
Quote from: DerelictShip on Jun 28, 2013, 12:18:54 PM
Quote from: SM on Jun 28, 2013, 04:06:54 AM
Bishop has no motive or opportunity.

Dude, HE IS WORKING IN THE LAB ON FACEHUGGERS THE WHOLE MOVIE UNTIL THE END, god knows what else he found in there! Also when they had to leave newt and ripley for a few minutes, how the hell do we know he didnt stow an egg away in the dropship!

This forum need a bot that replies to posts like the one above with the appropriate SMism.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jun 28, 2013, 10:14:30 PM
Quote from: DerelictShip on Jun 28, 2013, 12:18:54 PM
Quote from: SM on Jun 28, 2013, 04:06:54 AM
Bishop has no motive or opportunity.

Dude, HE IS WORKING IN THE LAB ON FACEHUGGERS THE WHOLE MOVIE UNTIL THE END, god knows what else he found in there! Also when they had to leave newt and ripley for a few minutes, how the hell do we know he didnt stow an egg away in the dropship!

Because movie.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Jun 28, 2013, 10:15:09 PM
SM is useless. He is really a Troll spurting his biased opinion. 

His Bishop quote is the red herring to make you think he's a good bot, but he really has his own programmed agenda.

Anyway, maybe it was royal jelly.   The stupidest term ever.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jun 28, 2013, 10:21:55 PM
More amusing and predictably pointless drivel from someone posting on a forum about movies he's never actually seen.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SiL on Jun 28, 2013, 10:42:38 PM
Quote from: DerelictShip on Jun 28, 2013, 12:18:54 PM
Dude, HE IS WORKING IN THE LAB ON FACEHUGGERS THE WHOLE MOVIE UNTIL THE END,
Dead ones.

Quotegod knows what else he found in there!
In where? The labs? There weren't any eggs.

QuoteAlso when they had to leave newt and ripley for a few minutes, how the hell do we know he didnt stow an egg away in the dropship!
Because we saw the egg chamber in the movie. Ripley was walking right through it. And she torched it when she left.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: DerelictShip on Jun 28, 2013, 10:51:28 PM

Dead ones.

There was one live facehugger you see when they first enter the lab


In where? The labs? There weren't any eggs.

How are you sure, they never showed us everything in the lab, and all the facehuggers in jars had to have been extracted from the eggs, which means they must have brought some back.


Because we saw the egg chamber in the movie. Ripley was walking right through it. And she torched it when she left.
[/quote]

Not all the eggs were in there, based on what I know, some aliens carry eggs throughout the hive to cover a broader range of the hive.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jun 28, 2013, 10:59:24 PM
Quote from: DerelictShip on Jun 28, 2013, 10:51:28 PM
Not all the eggs were in there, based on what I know, some aliens carry eggs throughout the hive to cover a broader range of the hive.

I would like to know more.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Jun 28, 2013, 11:02:04 PM
For example, the egg in front of Newt was not in the egg chamber around the Queen.

SM, give it a rest.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: DerelictShip on Jun 28, 2013, 11:10:08 PM


I would like to know more.
[/quote]

From my knowledge there are drones that carry eggs to infect more people around the hive, however, we only see warriors in Aliens so this must mean that either the warriors were carrying eggs in different spots or somebody else was.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jun 28, 2013, 11:26:32 PM
QuoteThere was one live facehugger you see when they first enter the lab

There were two.  Both were shot when they attacked Ripley and Newt.

Quote
How are you sure, they never showed us everything in the lab, and all the facehuggers in jars had to have been extracted from the eggs, which means they must have brought some back.

No it doesn't.  We don't know how they got the live ones.

Quote
From my knowledge there are drones that carry eggs to infect more people around the hive, however, we only see warriors in Aliens so this must mean that either the warriors were carrying eggs in different spots or somebody else was.

The Aliens carry the egg to the host.  We never see any unopened eggs lying around the hive - just open ones.  All the unopened ones are in the Queen's chamber.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SiL on Jun 29, 2013, 02:02:45 AM
Quote from: DerelictShip on Jun 28, 2013, 10:51:28 PM
There was one live facehugger you see when they first enter the lab
Bishop wasn't studying it.

Quote from: SM on Jun 28, 2013, 11:26:32 PM
No it doesn't.  We don't know how they got the live ones.
Same way they got the dead ones -- off of colonist's faces.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jun 29, 2013, 02:09:42 AM
Entirely likely.  Or they snagged one at some point before it tagged someone.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: DerelictShip on Jun 29, 2013, 05:22:48 PM
Dang SM, wait to shoot me down....
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jun 30, 2013, 05:23:32 PM
That's what the SM bot does.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Jul 09, 2013, 06:51:26 AM
While I don't think Bishop did it at all I will play devils advocate regarding a few things:

SM mentioned that Bishop has no motiviation  which was defused with the comment that orders is motivation enough.

Secondly someone (I think Sil) argued that Bishop couldn't have had those kinds of orders because of "it is impossible for to harm or by an ommission of action allow to be harmed a human being" - I'd also argue that programming could get around that easily enough.  Humans lie, I'm sure a human in control of a sophisticated piece of machinery like an Andriod could make it lie as well.

As for the Opportunity - that's a whole other issue.

Bottom line for me is that Bishop didn't do it as there is NOTHING in the film to suggest he did it.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Jul 09, 2013, 10:56:32 AM
Except the Dropship came up from below as Ripley exclaimed "Damn you Bishop!".

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: TheMonolith on Jul 09, 2013, 12:17:25 PM
Was done for dramatic effect and nothing more.
The alien ship rising from behind Devil's Tower in Close Encounters of the Third Kind makes just as much sense, that is, very little. But it makes for an impressive shot.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jul 09, 2013, 02:57:21 PM
I'd also like to point out that that, despite Ripley's instructions and protests, Bishop never did kill those live facehuggers.  They were still safely contained in stasis tubes when he left for the uplink tower, which also means he had no reason to covertly obtain an egg.  Burke already had his specimens.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Jul 09, 2013, 10:16:15 PM
Quote from: Vermillion on Jul 09, 2013, 10:56:32 AM
Except the Dropship came up from below as Ripley exclaimed "Damn you Bishop!".

Who is this in response to?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Xenomorphine on Jul 09, 2013, 11:25:22 PM
Quote from: SiL on Jun 29, 2013, 02:02:45 AM
Same way they got the dead ones -- off of colonist's faces.

Worst job in the future, ever: Voluntary facehugger bait.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jul 09, 2013, 11:27:32 PM
Quote from: stephen on Jul 09, 2013, 10:16:15 PM
Quote from: Vermillion on Jul 09, 2013, 10:56:32 AM
Except the Dropship came up from below as Ripley exclaimed "Damn you Bishop!".

Who is this in response to?

Assuming anything Vermillion said was even remotely relevant - it's predictably not accurate.  There's over a minute between Ripley cursing out Bishop and the dropship rising into view.

QuoteSM mentioned that Bishop has no motiviation  which was defused with the comment that orders is motivation enough.

Burke's order are countermanded by Ripley's orders.  Burke doesn't have any greater authority than Ripley.  He'd be at a stalemate and someone else would need carry the order to save or destroy the specimens.

If Bishop has any personal motivation in the matter, he makes no protest to Ripley the same way Ash did.

QuoteSecondly someone (I think Sil) argued that Bishop couldn't have had those kinds of orders because of "it is impossible for to harm or by an ommission of action allow to be harmed a human being" - I'd also argue that programming could get around that easily enough.  Humans lie, I'm sure a human in control of a sophisticated piece of machinery like an Andriod could make it lie as well.

Pretty huge assumption that it's 'easy' to violate core programming.

QuoteI'd also like to point out that that, despite Ripley's instructions and protests, Bishop never did kill those live facehuggers.  They were still safely contained in stasis tubes when he left for the uplink tower, which also means he had no reason to covertly obtain an egg.  Burke already had his specimens.

Putting aside Bishop's lack of opportunity to kill the huggers, the argument against this would be that since Burke didn't show up at the dropship and nor did the huggers, Bishop landed after dropping off Ripley and got an egg from the hive.

Which is of course bullshit, but there you go.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jul 10, 2013, 02:45:53 AM
Your anticipation of the rebuttal leads me to believe that you've heard it before.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jul 10, 2013, 03:00:20 AM
Maybe once.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Jul 10, 2013, 08:22:33 PM
I love these threads.

My two cents on how they got the Hadleys' huggers.. there's no way they're stupid enough to actually bring one of the facehuggers back unattached if they knew they were dangerous parasites that attacked people on sight. There have got to be procedures out the ass for dealing with that sort of thing, and there would be plenty of company reps/stooges on Hadleys to enforce this. Even more likely since one colonist was already "infected."

I've also thought about how maybe the number of huggers in the lab is a clue. The two they removed alive were taken off before embryo implantation. Obviously we know that facehuggers fall off and die after impregnating someone, so that could mean the other 4 were the original 4 aliens to be born in Hadleys proper.

That would be a feasible scenario, with six people hugged including Mr. Jordan. They would need to have enough personnel to drag these individuals back as well, so 6 people hugged mean at least another 2 that can retrieve them all. Suppose it only took 5 curious carls for the remaining team to learn not to stick their faces in the giant slimy eggs, eh?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jul 10, 2013, 10:06:39 PM
I've never been comfortable with the implied off-screen sequence of events that Cameron wants us to believe happened.  I'd rather believe that Russ Jorden was rushed back to the colony for medical treatment and the first chestburster was able to start a nest by itself.

The idiocy of at least five more colonists venturing into the derelict for a "fool me twice" is just too staggering for words.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jul 10, 2013, 11:08:22 PM
QuoteThere have got to be procedures out the ass for dealing with that sort of thing, and there would be plenty of company reps/stooges on Hadleys to enforce this.

They had quarantine procedures and company stooges in Alien too...
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SiL on Jul 10, 2013, 11:50:46 PM
And look at how much Company stooge Burke cared for procedure later on.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Jul 11, 2013, 08:26:20 AM
The company stooges are like some horrible, phallic ejaculation from the Alien.... a perverse and unwanted relation.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jul 12, 2013, 09:14:14 PM
Simpson and Lydecker didn't strike me as the type who would allow greed or curiosity to jeopardize the safety of the colony.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: blood. on Jul 12, 2013, 10:49:15 PM
I'd say it was David Fincher who stole the eggs from the hive, and planted them on the sulaco so that he could have a plot for alien 3
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: BR1XER on Jul 13, 2013, 05:06:32 AM
Quote from: bloodinthemud on Jul 12, 2013, 10:49:15 PM
I'd say it was David Fincher who stole the eggs from the hive, and planted them on the sulaco so that he could have a plot for alien 3
Hehe, good one.  ::)

I personally believe that a drone carrying an egg accompanied the Queen on the way to the Sulaco, and scampered off the dropship minutes after the Queen-to-Bishop incident. It then proceeded to make its way through the vents, and laid the egg in the barracks near the cryochambers. The drone's presence may also have a hand in kickstarting the infestation aboard the Sulaco in A:CM, if you count that as canon.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Jul 13, 2013, 07:34:24 AM
Quote from: jedi9061 on Jul 13, 2013, 05:06:32 AM
Hehe, good one.  ::)

I personally believe that a drone carrying an egg accompanied the Queen on the way to the Sulaco, and scampered off the dropship minutes after the Queen-to-Bishop incident. It then proceeded to make its way through the vents, and laid the egg in the barracks near the cryochambers. The drone's presence may also have a hand in kickstarting the infestation aboard the Sulaco in A:CM, if you count that as canon.

This is actually not the most ridiculous idea I've seen proposed for this godlike plot hole... but I think it's not likely as we see all of the drones at the Queen's disposal killed while in the hive. It also would've had to accompany her on the elevator ride, all the while remaining hidden from Rips. That would be some epic sneaky warrior there. :laugh:

But it's a hell of a lot better than what Gearbox came up with, I tell ya that! Would much prefer your version, especially if they tied it in with the WY ship that intercepts them encountering it, or the queen molt theory... could have video-game-level story potential.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: irn on Jul 13, 2013, 11:53:31 AM
Quote from: jedi9061 on Jul 13, 2013, 05:06:32 AM
I personally believe that a drone carrying an egg accompanied the Queen on the way to the Sulaco, and scampered off the dropship minutes after the Queen-to-Bishop incident.

Well there was that one on the dropship anyway that killed the pilot and caused it to crash. The dropship was back in the Sulaco with it on board so maybe it took an egg along and left it there. Or perhaps even started the process of egg morphing on a Sulaco crew member, if you're that way inclined.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: TorsoInvader on Jul 13, 2013, 03:26:41 PM
lol the xeno stowaway theory has been around since alien 3 actually.

All gearbox had to have said was that one got onboard planted the egg(s) and went into hideing in the lower levels of the ship.Then it would change into a preatorian and go dormant,bam WY boards ship transfroms into a queen and the hive starts.

Gearbox should have payed one of us millions of dollars to write a story,instead of making the plot holes worse be letting someone who does not know what he is talking about write it.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: BR1XER on Jul 13, 2013, 03:40:32 PM
Quote from: RagingDragon on Jul 13, 2013, 07:34:24 AM

That would be some epic sneaky warrior there.
I speculate that the drone nested itself on the Queen's back promptly after Ripley lit up the nest. It was probably ordered to do so, since the Queen knew shit was going down, and that she may never see the hive again. Aboard the Sulaco, the drone then "unloaded" from the Queen's back as it searched for Newt (with/without Bishop noticing). What's interesting is that if Bishop did indeed notice, but didn't alert Ripley, it would prove he still had a company agenda to fulfill.  :P
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: DerelictShip on Jul 13, 2013, 04:34:25 PM
Quote from: irn on Jul 13, 2013, 11:53:31 AM
Quote from: jedi9061 on Jul 13, 2013, 05:06:32 AM
I personally believe that a drone carrying an egg accompanied the Queen on the way to the Sulaco, and scampered off the dropship minutes after the Queen-to-Bishop incident.

Well there was that one on the dropship anyway that killed the pilot and caused it to crash. The dropship was back in the Sulaco with it on board so maybe it took an egg along and left it there. Or perhaps even started the process of egg morphing on a Sulaco crew member, if you're that way inclined.
No way, first off it was a completely different drop ship because there were 2 in the sulacos hangar. The way I look at it was fox needed a story to make a 3rd alien that would rip people off because after the success of the first 2 they knew people would pay for a third one. Anyway what I'm trying to say is that there is no way an egg was snuck onto the sulaco (if you look at james Camerons intentions) and we will never know because fox has no idea how it got there either, they just made up a story that they didn't have to explain.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jul 14, 2013, 01:06:10 AM
I'm still sticking to my theory that it started out as a small, premature egg that the queen dripped out of her gaping wound. (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=9.msg1483278#msg1483278)

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Rankles75 on Jul 14, 2013, 08:44:22 AM
Quote from: DerelictShip on Jul 13, 2013, 04:34:25 PM
Quote from: irn on Jul 13, 2013, 11:53:31 AM
Quote from: jedi9061 on Jul 13, 2013, 05:06:32 AM
I personally believe that a drone carrying an egg accompanied the Queen on the way to the Sulaco, and scampered off the dropship minutes after the Queen-to-Bishop incident.

Well there was that one on the dropship anyway that killed the pilot and caused it to crash. The dropship was back in the Sulaco with it on board so maybe it took an egg along and left it there. Or perhaps even started the process of egg morphing on a Sulaco crew member, if you're that way inclined.
No way, first off it was a completely different drop ship because there were 2 in the sulacos hangar. The way I look at it was fox needed a story to make a 3rd alien that would rip people off because after the success of the first 2 they knew people would pay for a third one. Anyway what I'm trying to say is that there is no way an egg was snuck onto the sulaco (if you look at james Camerons intentions) and we will never know because fox has no idea how it got there either, they just made up a story that they didn't have to explain.

Pretty much sums it up....
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: irn on Jul 14, 2013, 11:21:50 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 14, 2013, 01:06:10 AM
I'm still sticking to my theory that it started out as a small, premature egg that the queen dripped out of her gaping wound. (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=9.msg1483278#msg1483278)

I can live with this one. In fact this is now part of my official personal in-head canon.


However, how about the egg was formed by the queen having some Prometheus black goo on her which dripped off and turned blood from the wounded Hicks into an egg...
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jul 14, 2013, 11:30:49 PM
Quote from: DerelictShip on Jul 13, 2013, 04:34:25 PM
Quote from: irn on Jul 13, 2013, 11:53:31 AM
Quote from: jedi9061 on Jul 13, 2013, 05:06:32 AM
I personally believe that a drone carrying an egg accompanied the Queen on the way to the Sulaco, and scampered off the dropship minutes after the Queen-to-Bishop incident.

Well there was that one on the dropship anyway that killed the pilot and caused it to crash. The dropship was back in the Sulaco with it on board so maybe it took an egg along and left it there. Or perhaps even started the process of egg morphing on a Sulaco crew member, if you're that way inclined.
No way, first off it was a completely different drop ship because there were 2 in the sulacos hangar. The way I look at it was fox needed a story to make a 3rd alien that would rip people off because after the success of the first 2 they knew people would pay for a third one. Anyway what I'm trying to say is that there is no way an egg was snuck onto the sulaco (if you look at james Camerons intentions) and we will never know because fox has no idea how it got there either, they just made up a story that they didn't have to explain.

Fox didn't make anything up - they got Brandywine to hire writers to sort that out.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Jarac on Jul 15, 2013, 04:42:40 PM
Quote from: SM on Jul 14, 2013, 11:30:49 PM
Quote from: DerelictShip on Jul 13, 2013, 04:34:25 PM
Quote from: irn on Jul 13, 2013, 11:53:31 AM
Quote from: jedi9061 on Jul 13, 2013, 05:06:32 AM
I personally believe that a drone carrying an egg accompanied the Queen on the way to the Sulaco, and scampered off the dropship minutes after the Queen-to-Bishop incident.

Well there was that one on the dropship anyway that killed the pilot and caused it to crash. The dropship was back in the Sulaco with it on board so maybe it took an egg along and left it there. Or perhaps even started the process of egg morphing on a Sulaco crew member, if you're that way inclined.
No way, first off it was a completely different drop ship because there were 2 in the sulacos hangar. The way I look at it was fox needed a story to make a 3rd alien that would rip people off because after the success of the first 2 they knew people would pay for a third one. Anyway what I'm trying to say is that there is no way an egg was snuck onto the sulaco (if you look at james Camerons intentions) and we will never know because fox has no idea how it got there either, they just made up a story that they didn't have to explain.

Fox didn't make anything up - they got Brandywine to hire writers to sort that out.

I think this just lends credence to the idea that FOX doesn't really care about the franchise's writing or consistency and just puts something on-screen even if it flies in the face of what you know (and not in a good revelation way).
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SiL on Jul 15, 2013, 09:36:50 PM
You mean by operating like every other studio ... ?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jul 15, 2013, 10:59:20 PM
Quite.  Fox didn't create Alien.  Fox don't create anything.  They finance others to do it for them.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jul 15, 2013, 11:23:12 PM
For better or worse, I consider Giler and Hill the authority on Alien lore if anyone can be given that label at all.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Eva on Jul 16, 2013, 12:10:24 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 14, 2013, 01:06:10 AM
I'm still sticking to my theory that it started out as a small, premature egg that the queen dripped out of her gaping wound. (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=9.msg1483278#msg1483278)
You're suggesting Alien 3 happened because the Alien Queen had her period? :D
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jul 16, 2013, 12:20:16 AM
Well she did seem pretty pissed.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jul 16, 2013, 12:23:23 AM
It does explain a lot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGqwh_0gUvY# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGqwh_0gUvY#)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Eva on Jul 16, 2013, 12:24:14 AM
Quote from: SM on Jul 16, 2013, 12:20:16 AM
Well she did seem pretty pissed.

No shit. She had probably just seen AvP:Requim and spontaneously produced an egg on the spot for the intention of wiping out our civilization, before we could do any more harm. Can we blame her?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jul 16, 2013, 12:28:37 AM
Quote from: Eva on Jul 16, 2013, 12:24:14 AMRequim

Is that a typo?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jul 16, 2013, 12:32:02 AM
Well she apparently can't lay eggs without it, so she had to regenerate her genitalia or, indeed, 'requim'.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Eva on Jul 16, 2013, 12:44:07 AM
I really need to learn when to speak my mind or just shut up on this forum... :)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jul 16, 2013, 01:01:04 AM
That's okay.  Thanks to you, I think SM is softening up to my theory now.

So to speak.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Sgt. Apone on Jul 16, 2013, 05:21:02 AM
Quote from: irn on Jul 14, 2013, 11:21:50 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 14, 2013, 01:06:10 AM
I'm still sticking to my theory that it started out as a small, premature egg that the queen dripped out of her gaping wound. (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=9.msg1483278#msg1483278)

I can live with this one. In fact this is now part of my official personal in-head canon.


However, how about the egg was formed by the queen having some Prometheus black goo on her which dripped off and turned blood from the wounded Hicks into an egg...

And where'd the black goo come from?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jul 16, 2013, 07:02:48 AM
The X-Files.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jul 16, 2013, 07:07:31 AM
The X-Onvaldez
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jul 22, 2013, 10:22:59 AM
The thing that bugs me most about the Sulaco egg is not so much that it's there, but that it's in some completely obscure part of the ship. If they had put it in the dropship's landing gear I could've at least accepted that maybe the Queen carried it aboard (she does have four arms after all) and stuck it in there before attacking Bishop.

Of course, that still doesn't explain how she could've done that when we clearly see she isn't carrying anything as she leaves the elevator inside the atmosphere processor, but it's a retcon with at least a shred of believability. Or at least a shred more than the Alien 3 we ultimately got. Then again, an egg in the dropship landing gear would also beg the question how neither the Sulaco's computer nor Ripely and the others managed not to realise it was there, given they were hanging around right next to it
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jul 22, 2013, 06:26:13 PM
I'd assume that the Sulaco's computer relies on video cameras and motion trackers versus some kind of nebulous all-seeing Star Trek sensor gear.  Therefore, the presence of an alien on board would go undetected until the egg hatched and the facehugger actually started moving around.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jul 22, 2013, 11:15:55 PM
Yup.

Vague 'sensor sweeps' aren't really an Alien thing.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jul 23, 2013, 07:37:00 AM
Yeah, my point was more that if I'd just had a huge smackdown with a giant alien matriarch that had come out of the dropship's underbelly, I'd be inclined to have a poke around to check there weren't any more before I tucked myself into bed.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jul 24, 2013, 06:57:53 AM
If it was just globs of lumpy goo that took days or weeks to form into an egg, it could have easily gone unnoticed during the search that so many fans insist Ripley must have performed before hitting the hay.

I sense I'm gaining traction.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jul 24, 2013, 07:37:01 AM
But when is it ever suggested the egg starts as just lumps off goo?

And I'm not saying they search the whole ship. Just if it was me, I'd have a look around in the cavity that the queen emerged from, for my own piece of mind. And whatever I found that was out of the ordinary, I'd flush it out the Gad-damn airlock.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Rankles75 on Jul 25, 2013, 09:40:57 AM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 23, 2013, 07:37:00 AM
Yeah, my point was more that if I'd just had a huge smackdown with a giant alien matriarch that had come out of the dropship's underbelly, I'd be inclined to have a poke around to check there weren't any more before I tucked myself into bed.

^^ This....

The only place an egg could have been (hugely unlikely though it is) is on the dropship, which would probably have taken no more than 15-20 minutes to thoroughly search. Certainly, having seen an egg laying Queen alien clamber out of it not long before, you'd think the first thing Ripley (or anyone with half a brain) would do would be to have a root around for any unpleasant surprises. Still, they had to come up with a way to churn out another film I guess.....  :-\
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Jarac on Jul 25, 2013, 05:46:27 PM
It doesn't help that the freaking A:CM Stasis Interrupted DLC still left the thing as a mystery. But now we know it was pretty much right next to the pods.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Xenoscream on Dec 19, 2013, 03:21:03 PM
Has there ever been any general consensus on this?

Frankly for me there just isn't a "likely" scenario, just a range of unlikely to outrageous.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Dec 19, 2013, 03:47:56 PM
The only way I can see is if the Queen brought an Egg aboard (gripped in her small arms) and stuffed it in the dropship underbelly somewhere.

That still doesn't cover the fact that a) the Queen visibly isn't holding anything when she exits the lift on LV-426, and b) as I said before, no way would anyone have gone to sleep on the Sulaco without at least checking over the dropship. But it's the only way that really makes an iota sense.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Dec 19, 2013, 10:52:37 PM
Stuck the egg between the spines on her back for protection (from the nasty lady with the gun, and the camera).
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Elmazalman on Dec 20, 2013, 12:25:39 AM
Quote from: SM on Dec 19, 2013, 10:52:37 PM
Stuck the egg between the spines on her back for protection (from the nasty lady with the gun, and the camera).
I remember reading about something like that,the Alien warrior's carrying their victim's on their backs to the nest in that old West End Games book from the early nineties.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: MrSpaceJockey on Dec 20, 2013, 01:04:28 AM
Hey I always imagined that too! Hang their arms on the tubes.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Dec 20, 2013, 08:34:33 AM
The explanation Gibson gave in his unused script was a reasonable one (more so his second version, which doesn't add in extra warriors that appear out of nowhere). The egg grows from genetic material deposited inside Bishop when he's ripped in half. It's a stretch, but arguably more believable than what we see in the film.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RoaryUK on Dec 20, 2013, 09:10:18 AM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Dec 20, 2013, 08:34:33 AM
The explanation Gibson gave in his unused script was a reasonable one (more so his second version, which doesn't add in extra warriors that appear out of nowhere). The egg grows from genetic material deposited inside Bishop when he's ripped in half. It's a stretch, but arguably more believable than what we see in the film.

An interesting idea it was too, I wrote a story loosely based on it once only it didn't involve Bishop, but was rather more a part of the aliens own make up.  :)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: irn on Dec 20, 2013, 01:01:16 PM
It might have been suggested before in this thread but the egg could have been planted by WY or another organisation. I can't recall how many years are meant to have passed between Aliens and Alien 3 but perhaps after the clean up of what's left of Hadley's Hope, the egg was placed onto the Sulaco during automated refuelling or something, in order to get it to Gateway/Earth.

I dunno. It's yet another long shot.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Dec 20, 2013, 01:09:22 PM
The trouble with that is, if they're already moving eggs around, why bother to chase after the Sulaco and stick it on there? Just take it back to wherever yourself. Putting it on the Sulaco makes absolutely no sense.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: irn on Dec 20, 2013, 01:21:29 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Dec 20, 2013, 01:09:22 PM
The trouble with that is, if they're already moving eggs around, why bother to chase after the Sulaco and stick it on there? Just take it back to wherever yourself. Putting it on the Sulaco makes absolutely no sense.

Yeah I agree but it could be developed further with a more corporate conspiracy backstory. Such as the whole utilising the alien for a bioweapon thing could be the intentions of a small group within Weyland-Yutani, rather than a major part. This creates a more sneaky and underhanded approach to dealing with it. So, for example, putting the egg on the Sulaco could be a way to get it to a certain location undetected.

It's not ideal but with work I think it could be feasable.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: TheBATMAN on Dec 20, 2013, 01:30:20 PM
That's non-sensical though when you think about it because Alien 3 is all about Weyland-Yutani trying to retrieve a live alien specimen and Ripley's ultimate sacrifice to prevent then from doing so. This wouldn't really make much sense whatsoever if the company already had access to live alien eggs to do with as they wished.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: irn on Dec 20, 2013, 06:59:50 PM
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Dec 20, 2013, 01:30:20 PM
That's non-sensical though when you think about it because Alien 3 is all about Weyland-Yutani trying to retrieve a live alien specimen and Ripley's ultimate sacrifice to prevent then from doing so. This wouldn't really make much sense whatsoever if the company already had access to live alien eggs to do with as they wished.

Maybe they didn't count on a fire breaking out and the cryotubes on board being ejected. And they used the one and only remaining live egg. I dunno. Hah I sound like I'm trying to defend this idea. Like I said, it was just a brainfart. The egg on Sulaco problem is a tough one.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Elmazalman on Dec 20, 2013, 08:30:30 PM
The egg on board could have been placed there by either the Queen,a warrior or a synthetic (Bishop).No way a human could have come close enough to a egg without it deploying a face hugger.The Queen seems the most plausible suspect.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RoaryUK on Dec 20, 2013, 09:02:43 PM
I always thought there was only a couple of weeks between Aliens & Alien3 myself, problem is we have no idea what happened to the Sulaco after Aliens. We do know it would normally take the ship a few weeks (say 3 for sake of argument) to get back to Gateway, plus some believe (as I do), Fury 161 is situated somewhere between Earth and LV-426 anyway, just not in a direct line.  This kind of explains how the rescue team were able to get there within a week, so why would the Sulaco trip now take 2 years, and what was the alien doing during this time?  Did the Company really divert the ship from the start.... not for me, there was no need.  The debate goes on I guess.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Dec 21, 2013, 08:17:34 AM
The Patna was launched when Burke had Bishop send a communication from the uplink tower during Aliens.

It intercepted the Sulaco after the EEV jettisoned, finding only the empty egg.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RoaryUK on Dec 21, 2013, 10:30:45 AM
Quote from: RagingDragon on Dec 21, 2013, 08:17:34 AM
The Patna was launched when Burke had Bishop send a communication from the uplink tower during Aliens.

It intercepted the Sulaco after the EEV jettisoned, finding only the empty egg.

Burke had Bishop send a communication to the Sulaco to launch the second drop ship after they lost the first, it had nothing to do with the Patna, where do you get that from, source please?  Far as I know the Patna was launched when Superintendent Andrews requests a rescue team after an EEV is found with Ellen Ripley as the lone survivor. Show me something different and I might believe it!  ;)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Alien³ on Jan 11, 2014, 12:33:39 AM
This is a little piece called I've got some time to kill.

This is a theory of how the egg got on board the Sulaco.
I didn't come up with this theory but I have detailed it further.

Things to remember before reading:

As the Queen leaves the hive after Ripley has destroyed it, one of the "Royal" facehuggers...

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages1.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20120626192517%2Favp%2Fimages%2Fa%2Fa7%2FRoyal_Facehugger.png&hash=ac233671ed029b25a602f899c149599175633745)

...climbs on her back.

As Ripley, Newt, and Bishop are attending Hicks in the dropship, before they walk out into this shot...

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/aliens/dvdcaptures/dvdcapture521.jpg)

...the Queen lays an emergency egg on top of the Royal facehugger which then carries it off into the hull of the Sulaco. The Royal facehugger is built to carry eggs, like so...

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi39.tinypic.com%2Foupkz7.jpg&hash=0414bbaf2921db032052289970eed7f31526e674)
(Egg size is debatable.)

...The only onscreen evidence for these Royal facehuggers carrying eggs is the fact that the eggs are placed all over the ground in the hive (seen in Aliens.)

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/aliens/dvdcaptures/dvdcapture478.jpg)

I am aware that the drones/warriors can carry the eggs, but for the sake of argument these Royal facehuggers can also carry eggs in order to move them to more secretive locations, which is evident in the opening of Alien 3...

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv94%2Favpgalaxy%2Favpg%2Fforum%2Fimage002.jpg&hash=77e11ad3d73407b7aa3bf426b11246c723fb110d)

So the egg hatches and the facehugger from the egg...

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi41.tinypic.com%2F118ejd5.jpg&hash=417ee6cfdbc7c528bb826ee4a1a8f08701fd84ae)
(You can see it's not a Royal facehugger)

...impregnates Ripley causing the fire that ejects the EEV to Fiorina 161. Along for the ride is the Royal facehugger, which impregnates the Ox and is later found by Murphy.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic4.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20120118103936%2Favp%2Fimages%2F6%2F6a%2FVlcsnap-2012-01-17-21h50m21s184_copie.jpg&hash=a910e098f92abd09c95ed784aa72e0e59b4dc246)

This theory can also be backed up by the sound of the scuttling facehugger at the end of Aliens, after the credits.

For me personally this is how it went down.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Kelgaard on Jan 11, 2014, 01:34:40 AM
So how did the hugger invert the egg above the floor?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Alien³ on Jan 11, 2014, 01:37:14 AM
Using the same secretions that glue people to the hive walls.

Or...

Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.ning.com%2Ffiles%2F%2AnFMBiP6mC-LEjSQqnly3nX%2ANTl%2A21cFbT8dxBeI9nmW-JUfaLh2ChKv8wg-RdJqiTeR-FoRPiLPUgX9ce8Xsh3LLQuW1mNJ%2Fsuperglue.jpg&hash=c6857b2a205485fad99730302591d0ff5ba0cb80)
[close]
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jan 11, 2014, 10:06:30 AM
How is the Queen supposed to lay an egg aboard the Sulaco when she left her ruined egg sac inside the atmosphere processor?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Alien³ on Jan 11, 2014, 10:42:22 AM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 11, 2014, 10:06:30 AM
How is the Queen supposed to lay an egg aboard the Sulaco when she left her ruined egg sac inside the atmosphere processor?

Some people are under the impression that an emergency egg is not beyond the Queen.

If you don't agree with that, then the Queen could have stored an egg on her back along with the Royal facehugger.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jan 11, 2014, 05:49:10 PM
Quote from: Alien³ on Jan 11, 2014, 12:33:39 AMFor me personally this is how it went down.

So two facehuggers, one egg and the royal facehugger doesn't implant hosts with queens?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Alien³ on Jan 11, 2014, 05:58:38 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jan 11, 2014, 05:49:10 PM
Quote from: Alien³ on Jan 11, 2014, 12:33:39 AMFor me personally this is how it went down.

So two facehuggers, one egg and the royal facehugger doesn't implant hosts with queens?

Exactly. The Royal Facehugger probably could implant hosts with a Queen if it was the only surviving facehugger with no eggs left.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jan 11, 2014, 06:00:00 PM
Legit theory.  Better than most.  I like mine better, but that's to be expected.  Nice work.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: MrSpaceJockey on Jan 11, 2014, 06:11:56 PM
Is it wrong that I find the argument that "the queen can't lay eggs because it lost it's egg sac" strange?  Maybe that's the case with actual termite queens, I'm not sure.  But I always thought the queen would be able to lay eggs anyway, but the sac that is grown helps it manage the vast amount of eggs and keeps them from straight plopping to the ground.  At the end of Aliens, the emergency egg could have been laid and the queen just reached around and took it and placed it somewhere.

I like your explanation for the inconsistent facehuggers, Alien³, but I can't imagine the face hugger manipulating a large alien egg.  Maybe the emergency egg is smaller than a regular egg? Because it isn't made to last as long? Which is why the egg in Alien 3 opened without any provocation, in the active search for a host? I dunno.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Kelgaard on Jan 11, 2014, 06:44:10 PM
I can't see a hugger carrying an egg on its back, unless it does so like a hermit crab, from inside dragging it with its legs.  Rolling it is more likely.  Or dragging with the tail. 
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jan 11, 2014, 06:50:43 PM
Quote from: Kelgaard on Jan 11, 2014, 06:44:10 PM
I can't see a hugger carrying an egg on its back, unless it does so like a hermit crab, from inside dragging it with its legs.  Rolling it is more likely.  Or dragging with the tail.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi39.tinypic.com%2Foupkz7.jpg&hash=0414bbaf2921db032052289970eed7f31526e674)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: MrSpaceJockey on Jan 11, 2014, 06:56:55 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jan 11, 2014, 06:50:43 PM
Quote from: Kelgaard on Jan 11, 2014, 06:44:10 PM
I can't see a hugger carrying an egg on its back, unless it does so like a hermit crab, from inside dragging it with its legs.  Rolling it is more likely.  Or dragging with the tail.

http://i39.tinypic.com/oupkz7.jpg

He posted a disclaimer underneath, "egg size debatable."

Here's a more accurate size comparison.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_kpio92JuBs1qzexpio1_500.jpg&hash=34e0cacebbddac532305c395ff1ab432895b052d)

Hence my point on an emergency egg being smaller than a regular one, and not lasting as long.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jan 11, 2014, 07:02:41 PM
The egg that we see isn't really shown next to anything that we can use to measure it anyway.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Feb 19, 2014, 05:34:27 AM
Quote from: Alien³ on Jan 11, 2014, 12:33:39 AM
This is a little piece called I've got some time to kill.

This is a theory of how the egg got on board the Sulaco.
I didn't come up with this theory but I have detailed it further.

Things to remember before reading:

  • This only takes into account the Assembly Cut of Alien 3.
  • The writers of the film never included any of this.
  • Spoiler
    Life's too short.
    [close]

As the Queen leaves the hive after Ripley has destroyed it, one of the "Royal" facehuggers...

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120626192517/avp/images/a/a7/Royal_Facehugger.png

...climbs on her back.

As Ripley, Newt, and Bishop are attending Hicks in the dropship, before they walk out into this shot...

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/aliens/dvdcaptures/dvdcapture521.jpg

...the Queen lays an emergency egg on top of the Royal facehugger which then carries it off into the hull of the Sulaco. The Royal facehugger is built to carry eggs, like so...

http://i39.tinypic.com/oupkz7.jpg
(Egg size is debatable.)

...The only onscreen evidence for these Royal facehuggers carrying eggs is the fact that the eggs are placed all over the ground in the hive (seen in Aliens.)

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/aliens/dvdcaptures/dvdcapture478.jpg

I am aware that the drones/warriors can carry the eggs, but for the sake of argument these Royal facehuggers can also carry eggs in order to move them to more secretive locations, which is evident in the opening of Alien 3...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/avpgalaxy/avpg/forum/image002.jpg

So the egg hatches and the facehugger from the egg...

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi41.tinypic.com%2F118ejd5.jpg&hash=417ee6cfdbc7c528bb826ee4a1a8f08701fd84ae)
(You can see it's not a Royal facehugger)

...impregnates Ripley causing the fire that ejects the EEV to Fiorina 161. Along for the ride is the Royal facehugger, which impregnates the Ox and is later found by Murphy.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic4.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20120118103936%2Favp%2Fimages%2F6%2F6a%2FVlcsnap-2012-01-17-21h50m21s184_copie.jpg&hash=a910e098f92abd09c95ed784aa72e0e59b4dc246)

This theory can also be backed up by the sound of the scuttling facehugger at the end of Aliens, after the credits.

For me personally this is how it went down.

Dude this is a theory I've been posting for years.

The problem with the egg is not that there is one, it's the location.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 19, 2014, 05:48:09 AM
QuoteI am aware that the drones/warriors can carry the eggs, but for the sake of argument these Royal facehuggers can also carry eggs in order to move them to more secretive locations, which is evident in the opening of Alien 3...

Why?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Feb 19, 2014, 06:11:43 AM
Quote from: SM on Feb 19, 2014, 05:48:09 AM
QuoteI am aware that the drones/warriors can carry the eggs, but for the sake of argument these Royal facehuggers can also carry eggs in order to move them to more secretive locations, which is evident in the opening of Alien 3...

Why?

Isn't it obvious?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Alien³ on Feb 19, 2014, 09:13:52 AM
To ensure the survival of the species.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: judge death on Feb 19, 2014, 10:39:57 AM
I watched Aliens but didnt hear any facehugger sound after the credits :/
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 19, 2014, 10:44:41 AM
Pump up the volume.

QuoteTo ensure the survival of the species.

Why wouldn't the hugger just, well, do what nature intended and hug someone?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Alien³ on Feb 19, 2014, 11:02:48 AM
Quote from: SM on Feb 19, 2014, 10:44:41 AM
QuoteTo ensure the survival of the species.

Why wouldn't the hugger just, well, do what nature intended and hug someone?

It did, after doing some sneaky work.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 19, 2014, 11:09:59 AM
What was the point though?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Alien³ on Feb 19, 2014, 11:46:22 AM
To not be out in the open and exposed while it tries to rebuild the decimated species.

It didn't know how many people/threats were on the Sulaco.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Feb 19, 2014, 12:06:59 PM
Quote from: SM on Feb 19, 2014, 11:09:59 AM
What was the point though?

To allow the face hugger in the egg time to develop.  And also for the same reasons a lioness keeps moving her newborn cubs to different dens. Don't be where your enemy expect you to be seems to sum up the alien pretty well.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Feb 19, 2014, 03:37:07 PM
That's a great theory, Alien3.

I'll point out the obvious and say that it has to be the royal facehugger that gets Ripley, but the way I imagine it, both of them approached the cryo tubes. The royal hugger went for Ripley, and the regular one for Newt. Somehow the royal hugger successfully got to Ripley, but the regular one cut itself on Newt's tube, starting the fire and ejecting everyone down to Fury.

After this, all it had to do was survive long enough to meet Spike.

This is one of the best explanations I've read yet. I really rike it. Nerd level 9 to you sir.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Feb 19, 2014, 04:09:04 PM
Quote from: RagingDragon on Feb 19, 2014, 03:37:07 PMI'll point out the obvious and say that it has to be the royal facehugger that gets Ripley, but the way I imagine it, both of them approached the cryo tubes. The royal hugger went for Ripley, and the regular one for Newt. Somehow the royal hugger successfully got to Ripley, but the regular one cut itself on Newt's tube, starting the fire and ejecting everyone down to Fury.

A wise man once told me that it could have only been Hicks.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Alien³ on Feb 19, 2014, 07:12:24 PM
Quote from: RagingDragon on Feb 19, 2014, 03:37:07 PM
That's a great theory, Alien3.

Cheers but its not my theory, I've just expanded it.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Feb 19, 2014, 09:14:01 PM
Like I said I've been floating this theory for years. As I said before, the biggest problem with the opening of alien 3 is the location of the egg.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 19, 2014, 10:30:38 PM
QuoteTo allow the face hugger in the egg time to develop.

Since when do they need time to develop?

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Feb 19, 2014, 10:35:02 PM
Why wouldn't they?  Same reason chickens don't hatch the second an egg is laid.

But if you don't like that idea then there's always the other thing.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 19, 2014, 10:39:53 PM
QuoteWhy wouldn't they?

'Cos they're not chickens.

This whole carrying the egg around on a super-huggers back is terribly silly.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Feb 19, 2014, 10:43:23 PM
Quote from: SM on Feb 19, 2014, 10:39:53 PM
QuoteWhy wouldn't they?

'Cos they're not chickens.

Of course not.  But I'm just applying some logic.  In order for something to hatch out of an egg, it has to develop first does it not?  There's nothing in the films that indicates that the second an egg is laid the facehugger can hatch straight away.

Quote from: SM on Feb 19, 2014, 10:39:53 PMThis whole carrying the egg around on a super-huggers back is terribly silly.

So you say.  I however don't think it's silly at all.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Alien³ on Feb 19, 2014, 10:55:41 PM
Quote from: stephen on Feb 19, 2014, 09:14:01 PM
Like I said I've been floating this theory for years. As I said before, the biggest problem with the opening of alien 3 is the location of the egg.

The royal hugger glued it to the wall with its spit.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Feb 19, 2014, 10:58:12 PM
Quote from: Alien³ on Feb 19, 2014, 10:55:41 PM
Quote from: stephen on Feb 19, 2014, 09:14:01 PM
Like I said I've been floating this theory for years. As I said before, the biggest problem with the opening of alien 3 is the location of the egg.

The royal hugger glued it to the wall with its spit.

No what I meant was that it wasn't in the dropship.  Therefore if the queen did in fact lay the egg on the dropship, how the hell did it get to the location that we see it in.

Therefore, my theory, the one you're pretty much talking about, answers that.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 19, 2014, 10:58:50 PM
QuoteSo you say.  I however don't think it's silly at all.

But I do and that's more important.

That aside it'd be handy if this theory had anything at all to back it up and wasn't based on stuff that was completely unprecedented.

Case in point...
QuoteThe royal hugger glued it to the wall with its spit.

QuoteIn order for something to hatch out of an egg, it has to develop first does it not?  There's nothing in the films that indicates that the second an egg is laid the facehugger can hatch straight away.

But why would it still need to develop when it's been gestating in the Queen's egg sac?  Bit stupid for it leave the egg sac undeveloped.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Feb 19, 2014, 11:14:20 PM
Quote from: SM on Feb 19, 2014, 10:58:50 PM
QuoteSo you say.  I however don't think it's silly at all.

But I do and that's more important.

Lol of course it is.

Quote from: SM on Feb 19, 2014, 10:58:50 PMThat aside it'd be handy if this theory had anything at all to back it up and wasn't based on stuff that was completely unprecedented.

You're quite right to some point.  Mine is just a theory.  I fully admit that.  But.... let's see what does back it up if at least not hard evidence:

1. There were two aliens in Alien 3.  The alien that was gestating inside Ripley and the alien that was running around killing people.  Up until that point our entire experience from the first two films was that an alien comes from a facehugger ergo, there must have been two facehuggers.
2. While not shown in the theatrical edition, there was a Royal Facehugger in the Assembly cut.  So if you argue that my point number 1 is invalid and state that a royal facehugger could implant two embryos instead of just one then I refer you to point number 3.
3. The egg was not in the dropship therefore it had have moved to the location we see it in somehow.
4. If you wish to argue that there is no such thing as a royal facehugger or wish to argue that we don't know exactly what a royal facehugger can do since nothing was really shown, then my theory still can support the fact that they're normal face huggers.

The whole point of this theory is to answer the problem of the location of the egg and the fact that there were two aliens.  Other theories usually don't answer the problem of the location of the egg and try just to answer the problem of there being two aliens.


Quote from: SM on Feb 19, 2014, 10:58:50 PMCase in point...
QuoteThe royal hugger glued it to the wall with its spit.

I'll let alien3 answer this as this is not part of my theory.  But if I was to hazard a guess, we've seen alien warriors secret a resin that enables them to attach hosts to walls etc.  So there is precedence to a certain degree.

But yes you're right, there's nothing in the films that shows a Facehugger (or royal facehugger) can do such a thing.  Again it's just a theory that does have some backing from the films to a certain degree.  I certainly wouldn't call it hard evidence, more like circumstancial evidence.

Quote from: SM on Feb 19, 2014, 10:58:50 PM
QuoteIn order for something to hatch out of an egg, it has to develop first does it not?  There's nothing in the films that indicates that the second an egg is laid the facehugger can hatch straight away.

But why would it still need to develop when it's been gestating in the Queen's egg sac?  Bit stupid for it leave the egg sac undeveloped.
[/quote]

What eggsac?  The eggsac was still on LV426 when the Atmosphere processor blew.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 19, 2014, 11:20:45 PM
That assumes - again - that the Queen laid it en route to the Sulaco and simply didn't bring it with her.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Feb 19, 2014, 11:41:10 PM
Quote from: SM on Feb 19, 2014, 10:58:50 PM
QuoteSo you say.  I however don't think it's silly at all.

But I do and that's more important.

:D
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Feb 19, 2014, 11:43:29 PM
Quote from: SM on Feb 19, 2014, 11:20:45 PM
That assumes - again - that the Queen laid it en route to the Sulaco and simply didn't bring it with her.

Quite right.  Except that we don't see her carrying the egg.  Sure the egg could be on her back like I'm suggesting the facehugger is but I find it far more believable that a facehugger is hitching a ride rather then an egg.

BUT if you want to go with that as a theory, you still have to explain how it ends up where we see it.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Feb 19, 2014, 11:48:24 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpjP256PVRM# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpjP256PVRM#)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Feb 19, 2014, 11:49:53 PM
so what exactly is absurd?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Feb 19, 2014, 11:52:35 PM
I don't really think it's all that absurd, although I can see why SM does.  For all we know, the eggs can use the tendrils that grow out of their base to reposition themselves.  No facehugger needed.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Feb 19, 2014, 11:57:51 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 19, 2014, 11:52:35 PM
I don't really think it's all that absurd, although I can see why SM does.  For all we know, the eggs can use the tendrils that grow out of their base to reposition themselves.  No facehugger needed.

There is that theory as well, though with this theory you have to also assume that the facehugger that hatches is able to implant two embryos  - one for Ripley and one for the dog/ox.

That's fine for a theory and if that's what you want to go with that's cool.

Personally I'm not a huge fan of an egg being able to move a great deal so I'm not a fan of that particular theory, but I certainly don't discount it as a possible theory.

My theory can incorporate a royal facehugger or simply just two normal facehuggers.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Feb 20, 2014, 12:02:43 AM
I still think it's best to look to the Gibson script for clues about how the egg's presence was conceptualized, even though the execution was botched.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Feb 20, 2014, 12:03:51 AM
I haven't read it. Care to enlighten me.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Feb 20, 2014, 12:12:44 AM
The egg grew out of Bishop's torso inside his cryotube.  Ostensibly, this was due to being contaminated with genetic material when the queen impaled him.  Later on, the Anchorpoint scientists were able to culture scrapings of the same material from his lower half and clone alien eggs from that.

My personal spin on the Gibson origin, which appears to be the script that pre-dated them all, is that this genetic material oozed into the subflooring of the Sulaco's landing bay where it congealed, then grew slowly out of the floor itself and into the strange position where we saw it after it hatched.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Sgt. Apone on Feb 20, 2014, 12:16:35 AM
Quote from: stephen on Feb 19, 2014, 11:57:51 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 19, 2014, 11:52:35 PM
I don't really think it's all that absurd, although I can see why SM does.  For all we know, the eggs can use the tendrils that grow out of their base to reposition themselves.  No facehugger needed.

There is that theory as well, though with this theory you have to also assume that the facehugger that hatches is able to implant two embryos  - one for Ripley and one for the dog/ox.

That's fine for a theory and if that's what you want to go with that's cool.

Personally I'm not a huge fan of an egg being able to move a great deal so I'm not a fan of that particular theory, but I certainly don't discount it as a possible theory.

My theory can incorporate a royal facehugger or simply just two normal facehuggers.

One way to solve the two facehugger problem is that if you listen closely after the credits of Aliens, you can hear a facehugger crawling around.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Feb 20, 2014, 12:20:17 AM
How does that solve the problem?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Sgt. Apone on Feb 20, 2014, 12:23:37 AM
I don't know. It makes more sense than everything else. One facehugger could have stowed away on the dropship. How the egg got there is anyone's guess.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 20, 2014, 12:31:52 AM
A facehugger stowing away simply would've attacked someone.  Hicks would be the most likely candidate.  If it stowed away with the Queen - then it could've easily nailed Ripley or Newt.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Feb 20, 2014, 12:56:08 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 20, 2014, 12:12:44 AM
The egg grew out of Bishop's torso inside his cryotube.  Ostensibly, this was due to being contaminated with genetic material when the queen impaled him.  Later on, the Anchorpoint scientists were able to culture scrapings of the same material from his lower half and clone alien eggs from that.

My personal spin on the Gibson origin, which appears to be the script that pre-dated them all, is that this genetic material oozed into the subflooring of the Sulaco's landing bay where it congealed, then grew slowly out of the floor itself and into the strange position where we saw it after it hatched.

Holy sheep shit that's crazy, but not near as crazy as the Alien3 intro. I really like that theory, which would end up with a single hugger with a queen + drone embryo. I need to re-read Gibson's script.

Would've been some nifty links into Poometheus, as well.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Feb 20, 2014, 01:27:29 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 20, 2014, 12:12:44 AM
The egg grew out of Bishop's torso inside his cryotube.  Ostensibly, this was due to being contaminated with genetic material when the queen impaled him.  Later on, the Anchorpoint scientists were able to culture scrapings of the same material from his lower half and clone alien eggs from that.

Interesting.  And at least an explanation.  Unfortunately that's not what happened.

Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 20, 2014, 12:12:44 AMMy personal spin on the Gibson origin, which appears to be the script that pre-dated them all, is that this genetic material oozed into the subflooring of the Sulaco's landing bay where it congealed, then grew slowly out of the floor itself and into the strange position where we saw it after it hatched.

I've seen this theory on this board before (probably one of your posts) and didn't realize that it was based off one of the alien 3 scripts.

Again, if that's the theory you want to go with that's cool.  My issues:

1. Time - how long does it take this genetic material to form the egg?  Not really a big deal though because there's no real basis for how long it takes for the egg to be formed correctly anyway.
2. my personal feeling is that I don't think I like the idea of the egg simply growing out of a congealed genetic mess.  Why then a queen, why then egg morphing?  it feels like to me like a whole other breeding cycle.

Having said that, I can't discount the theory as a legitimate theory.  There's no real holes in it apart from the fact that nothing in the films supports the genetic mess into egg thing.  I know my own theory takes some liberties as well but I still feel that it takes less liberties then this idea.  I know it's based off one of the scripts but to me that's still not a part of the film.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 20, 2014, 01:30:33 AM
Quote1. Time - how long does it take this genetic material to form the egg?  Not really a big deal though because there's no real basis for how long it takes for the egg to be formed correctly anyway.

As reference Brett was nearly fully egged in maybe a couple of hours.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Feb 20, 2014, 01:41:24 AM
Quote from: SM on Feb 20, 2014, 01:30:33 AM
Quote1. Time - how long does it take this genetic material to form the egg?  Not really a big deal though because there's no real basis for how long it takes for the egg to be formed correctly anyway.

As reference Brett was nearly fully egged in maybe a couple of hours.

First, how do we know how long the egg had to go to be "fully egged."

Second, the egg itself maybe formed but what about the facehugger inside it?

It could take another hour, or it could take another week.  As we don't know anything about the process of how it happens then there's not really much to go on.

But having said that, I'm not really concerned about the time frame.  I'm happy enough to accept Brett's egg morphing thing as a form of precedence for that particular theory.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 20, 2014, 01:51:41 AM
QuoteFirst, how do we know how long the egg had to go to be "fully egged."

Estimate based on careful study of the source material.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Feb 20, 2014, 02:03:00 AM
The alien has such strong instincts, you think it could know generally how long it had before the egg was ready. If it grabbed a host too early, they would be dead before it could hatch.

Maybe this is over thinking it or giving the Alien too much credit, but they seem very smart when it comes to their own freaky jive ass reproduction.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Feb 20, 2014, 02:30:17 AM
Quote from: SM on Feb 20, 2014, 01:51:41 AM
QuoteFirst, how do we know how long the egg had to go to be "fully egged."

Estimate based on careful study of the source material.

So what you're saying is that you're making some assumptions?

Quote from: RagingDragon on Feb 20, 2014, 02:03:00 AM
The alien has such strong instincts, you think it could know generally how long it had before the egg was ready. If it grabbed a host too early, they would be dead before it could hatch.

Maybe this is over thinking it or giving the Alien too much credit, but they seem very smart when it comes to their own freaky jive ass reproduction.

Sounds logical
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Feb 20, 2014, 02:38:37 AM
Quote from: stephen on Feb 20, 2014, 01:27:29 AMHaving said that, I can't discount the theory as a legitimate theory.  There's no real holes in it apart from the fact that nothing in the films supports the genetic mess into egg thing.  I know my own theory takes some liberties as well but I still feel that it takes less liberties then this idea.  I know it's based off one of the scripts but to me that's still not a part of the film.

Alien 3's development hell is the reason I value the earlier scripts so much.  What Giler and Hill eventually "wrote" seemed to be little more than a mishmash of concepts lifted from those earlier scripts.  The sudden appearance of an egg seemingly out of nowhere smacks of the Gibson script to me.

It's the same reason I think the Sulaco was intentionally rerouted to Fury 161 by the company.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 20, 2014, 02:53:27 AM
QuoteSo what you're saying is that you're making some assumptions?

If you want to describe it in such dismissive terms...
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Feb 20, 2014, 03:14:41 AM
Quote from: SM on Feb 20, 2014, 02:53:27 AM
QuoteSo what you're saying is that you're making some assumptions?

If you want to describe it in such dismissive terms...

All I'm saying is that there's not enough evidence to know for sure so all any of us can do is make assumptions. You seem to pass it off as fact which I disagree with.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 20, 2014, 03:19:13 AM
It's more than assumption and less than fact.

It's extrapolation.

If people want to simply dismiss it out of hand with a blanket 'Yeah, but you still don't know', then there's little I can do.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Alien³ on Feb 20, 2014, 03:27:56 AM
I fully endorse my theory.

I see it as fact.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Feb 20, 2014, 03:29:08 AM
Right - which doesn't really change the situation.  I just don't think there's enough information to be able to...extrapolate with any degree of certainty.

I don't dismiss it out of hand at all.  I even asked you to explain your reasoning.

It's just that I take the stance that it is actually an unknown where you seem to be pretty much settled on the subject.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Feb 20, 2014, 03:35:45 AM
It's been 22 years.

I can imagine many fans are more than settled on the subject.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 20, 2014, 03:38:37 AM
As far as I see it - as I've said on this thread as nauseum probably.

1. Egg is on the dropship.
2. The opening titles is a fragmented semi conscious version of actual events from Ripley's dreaming POV.

These two options require that least amount of making shit up.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Feb 20, 2014, 04:03:24 AM
Quote from: SM on Feb 20, 2014, 03:38:37 AM
As far as I see it - as I've said on this thread as nauseum probably.

1. Egg is on the dropship.
2. The opening titles is a fragmented semi conscious version of actual events from Ripley's dreaming POV.

These two options require that least amount of making shit up.

you've indicated two options:

1. egg is on dropship (which it isn't) and you would then have to "make up" the fact that one egg = two aliens.  You've just made something up?  You've just added to the alien life cycle.
2. Which then doesn't explain anything.  If this is the case then all of the imagery and audio we hear during the opening credits can be completely disregarded and you can then choose to believe whatever you want to believe - one egg; two eggs; one egg and two facehuggers - whatever.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 20, 2014, 04:25:12 AM
1. There is a reason I said "least amount of making shit up", rather than "not making shit up".
2. No, not completely disregarded.  The basic facts of there's an Alien on board that accompanied them to Fiorina are confirmed by Bishop.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Feb 20, 2014, 04:41:33 AM
To me, only the different cryotubes are unexplainable without exceeding the bullshit barrier like Chuck Yeager with the X-1 of shovels.  To Fincher, I say: that shit ain't right.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi58.tinypic.com%2F2uyhlqh.jpg&hash=9115f50e2b3c6089c8ffe4a202565944a78e6034)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Feb 20, 2014, 04:51:09 AM
I favor the "Alien 3 was a dream" approach they were toying with before production of Res. It would've been a giant slap in the face to the A3 crew, but not half as bad as bloody Resurrection ended up being. You also could've maybe stayed in the same universe and left something open for the future instead of killing the entire franchise for 200 years past and future, canon-wise.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 20, 2014, 04:53:17 AM
I don't think they ever toyed with the idea of Alien3 being a dream.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Feb 20, 2014, 05:08:20 AM
This was the only thing I could find at the moment:

QuoteFact: The original concept for Alien 4 was to claim that Alien 3 had been Ripley's bad dream during hyper sleep in an attempt to appease the fans.

From this article: http://notanothersequel.blogspot.com/2012/03/most-hated-sequels-1.html (http://notanothersequel.blogspot.com/2012/03/most-hated-sequels-1.html)

But I remember reading from several different sources that A4's writers toyed with the idea of making Alien3 Ripleys bad dream in hyperspace because the studios wanted Ripley to return and they were having such a difficult time figuring out how to do this.

If you google, there are actually an insane amount of crazy observations made by fans about all of the dreamlike shit and symbolism in Alien 3, from Newt 'drowning' to the Nostromo flight recorder on the EEV at the end, which wouldve most likely been impossible, and many other things.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm not. Interesting theory, never the less.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 20, 2014, 05:13:48 AM
Resurrection only ever had one writer, and I've never heard anyone involved with the film ever mention anything about Alien3 being a dream.

Sounds like wishful fan wank.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Feb 20, 2014, 05:22:39 AM
There's plenty of that, for sure. I'll do some more digging and see if I can find anything.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 20, 2014, 05:26:19 AM
Whedon is one of Resurrections biggest detractors.  If that dream idea was seriously floating around at any point I'm sure he would've aired it to make Fox look dumb.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Feb 20, 2014, 05:37:45 AM
Is there an SM-fanfic version of Alien 3 floating around on the interwebz somewhere?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 20, 2014, 05:40:51 AM
Not on the interwebz, no.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Feb 20, 2014, 05:41:07 AM
I think I remember it mentioned in the timeframe before Weaver signed on.

And I haven't found anything about it yet, but what the f**k is this IMDB trivia??

QuoteOriginally, the fourth alien movie was to be a rendition of the popular comic Aliens Vs. Predator, which combined the Alien creatures with Predator (1987) since 1991.

Paul Anderson was also approached to direct, but was unable to. Maybe that would've really torpedoed this mother early :laugh:
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Feb 20, 2014, 05:45:03 AM
Quote from: SM on Feb 20, 2014, 05:40:51 AM
Not on the interwebz, no.

:'(
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 20, 2014, 06:07:02 AM
Quote from: RagingDragon on Feb 20, 2014, 05:41:07 AM
I think I remember it mentioned in the timeframe before Weaver signed on.

And I haven't found anything about it yet, but what the f**k is this IMDB trivia??

QuoteOriginally, the fourth alien movie was to be a rendition of the popular comic Aliens Vs. Predator, which combined the Alien creatures with Predator (1987) since 1991.

Paul Anderson was also approached to direct, but was unable to. Maybe that would've really torpedoed this mother early :laugh:

They're talking about Peter Briggs adaptation of the original AvP comic. If Anderson was approached it wouldn't have been until the mid-1990s.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Feb 20, 2014, 06:36:58 AM
Quote from: SM on Feb 20, 2014, 06:07:02 AM
They're talking about Peter Briggs adaptation of the original AvP comic. If Anderson was approached it wouldn't have been until the mid-1990s.

He was unable to due to filming Event Horizon.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Feb 20, 2014, 08:32:45 AM
Quote from: RagingDragon on Feb 20, 2014, 05:41:07 AMAnd I haven't found anything about it yet, but what the f**k is this IMDB trivia??

QuoteOriginally, the fourth alien movie was to be a rendition of the popular comic Aliens Vs. Predator, which combined the Alien creatures with Predator (1987) since 1991.
As others have said, that's probably referring to the original AVP script by Peter Briggs, which was written in the early 90s. His script is much more closely linked to the Alien films than what we ultimately got (being set in the future for one) which is probably why someone suggested it was going to be Alien 4.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The1PerfectOrganism on Feb 20, 2014, 04:04:56 PM
I honestly believe that there's no reason to believe that the egg was on the Sulaco.
Even the opening in the A3 Blu-Ray supports the idea that the Queen simply wasn't the only one that stowed away on the Dropship.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Feb 20, 2014, 04:09:54 PM
Quote from: The1PerfectOrganism on Feb 20, 2014, 04:04:56 PMI honestly believe that there's no reason to believe that the egg was on the Sulaco.
Except it says 'SULACO' quite clearly on the bulkhead the Egg is attached to...
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The1PerfectOrganism on Feb 20, 2014, 04:16:51 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 20, 2014, 04:09:54 PM
Quote from: The1PerfectOrganism on Feb 20, 2014, 04:04:56 PMI honestly believe that there's no reason to believe that the egg was on the Sulaco.
Except it says 'SULACO' quite clearly on the bulkhead the Egg is attached to...

It could just as easily mean 'Sulaco' Dropship to me anyway.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on Feb 20, 2014, 05:44:59 PM
Thing is, there would be no way Ripley would be so dumb not to search or more so scan the dropship or the entire ship for life forms for more stow aways after finding out the Queen hitched a ride. Dropship would be scanned inch by inch first and foremost before anything else
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The1PerfectOrganism on Feb 20, 2014, 05:56:47 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Feb 20, 2014, 05:44:59 PM
Thing is, there would be no way Ripley would be so dumb not to search or more so scan the dropship or the entire ship for life forms for more stow aways after finding out the Queen hitched a ride. Dropship would be scanned inch by inch first and foremost before anything else


Considering the entirety of A3, looked like she fvcked up.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on Feb 20, 2014, 05:59:28 PM
Quote from: The1PerfectOrganism on Feb 20, 2014, 05:56:47 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Feb 20, 2014, 05:44:59 PM
Thing is, there would be no way Ripley would be so dumb not to search or more so scan the dropship or the entire ship for life forms for more stow aways after finding out the Queen hitched a ride. Dropship would be scanned inch by inch first and foremost before anything else


Considering the entirety of A3, looked like she fvcked up.

I love Alien 3 but it made her look like its her fault for absolute, complete idiocy. A3 showed that Sulacos computer could detect another life form on board. How or why on Earth she or even Bishop would NOT check the dropship if anything else hid in there, nevermind the whole ship before calling it a day
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: judge death on Feb 20, 2014, 06:16:00 PM
Well Ripley isnt a marine so the question is if she knew how all systems and stuff worked on Sulaco and Hicks seems unable to help much since he is seen knocked out ever since they left the planet. Bishop might could had instructed her but depends if he worked like he should or maybe Ripley took him to the cryotubes after the battle?

But yes as you say: The ship systems even noticed movements of alien creatures onboard and Bishop should had noticed it, I´m thinking if the ship should had started an alarm and awakened the crew or if it just register movement and dont do anything?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The1PerfectOrganism on Feb 20, 2014, 06:18:22 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Feb 20, 2014, 05:59:28 PM
Quote from: The1PerfectOrganism on Feb 20, 2014, 05:56:47 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Feb 20, 2014, 05:44:59 PM
Thing is, there would be no way Ripley would be so dumb not to search or more so scan the dropship or the entire ship for life forms for more stow aways after finding out the Queen hitched a ride. Dropship would be scanned inch by inch first and foremost before anything else


Considering the entirety of A3, looked like she fvcked up.

I love Alien 3 but it made her look like its her fault for absolute, complete idiocy. A3 showed that Sulacos computer could detect another life form on board. How or why on Earth she or even Bishop would NOT check the dropship if anything else hid in there, nevermind the whole ship before calling it a day

So do I.
But every film has flaws to varying degrees.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on Feb 20, 2014, 06:24:34 PM
Quote from: The1PerfectOrganism on Feb 20, 2014, 06:18:22 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Feb 20, 2014, 05:59:28 PM
Quote from: The1PerfectOrganism on Feb 20, 2014, 05:56:47 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Feb 20, 2014, 05:44:59 PM
Thing is, there would be no way Ripley would be so dumb not to search or more so scan the dropship or the entire ship for life forms for more stow aways after finding out the Queen hitched a ride. Dropship would be scanned inch by inch first and foremost before anything else


Considering the entirety of A3, looked like she fvcked up.

I love Alien 3 but it made her look like its her fault for absolute, complete idiocy. A3 showed that Sulacos computer could detect another life form on board. How or why on Earth she or even Bishop would NOT check the dropship if anything else hid in there, nevermind the whole ship before calling it a day



So do I.
But every film has flaws to varying degrees.

That's right, and while Alien 3 may have more logic holes than the first two, I personally was never bothered by egg on Sulaco or just about anything, the feel, great music, vibe and the story/drama of the film took me in without thinking about those things
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The1PerfectOrganism on Feb 20, 2014, 06:30:02 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Feb 20, 2014, 06:24:34 PM
Quote from: The1PerfectOrganism on Feb 20, 2014, 06:18:22 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Feb 20, 2014, 05:59:28 PM
Quote from: The1PerfectOrganism on Feb 20, 2014, 05:56:47 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Feb 20, 2014, 05:44:59 PM
Thing is, there would be no way Ripley would be so dumb not to search or more so scan the dropship or the entire ship for life forms for more stow aways after finding out the Queen hitched a ride. Dropship would be scanned inch by inch first and foremost before anything else


Considering the entirety of A3, looked like she fvcked up.

I love Alien 3 but it made her look like its her fault for absolute, complete idiocy. A3 showed that Sulacos computer could detect another life form on board. How or why on Earth she or even Bishop would NOT check the dropship if anything else hid in there, nevermind the whole ship before calling it a day



So do I.
But every film has flaws to varying degrees.

That's right, and while Alien 3 may have more logic holes than the first two, I personally was never bothered by egg on Sulaco or just about anything, the feel, great music, vibe and the story/drama of the film took me in without thinking about those things

I feel the same, the bad special effects are all that takes me out of it now-a-days.
Other than that in feel the film is purely masterful, I don't understand why Resurrection was needed.
It wasn't a movie to think about or interpret but it was purely emotional.
The opposite of Prometheus in many ways and guess what? I love both.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Elmazalman on Feb 20, 2014, 06:35:59 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Feb 20, 2014, 05:59:28 PM
Quote from: The1PerfectOrganism on Feb 20, 2014, 05:56:47 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Feb 20, 2014, 05:44:59 PM
Thing is, there would be no way Ripley would be so dumb not to search or more so scan the dropship or the entire ship for life forms for more stow aways after finding out the Queen hitched a ride. Dropship would be scanned inch by inch first and foremost before anything else


Considering the entirety of A3, looked like she fvcked up.

I love Alien 3 but it made her look like its her fault for absolute, complete idiocy. A3 showed that Sulacos computer could detect another life form on board. How or why on Earth she or even Bishop would NOT check the dropship if anything else hid in there, nevermind the whole ship before calling it a day
The Sulaco and everything within is a lot of area for one adult and child to cover,Bishop,torn in half and Hicks out of action would be of little help.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on Feb 20, 2014, 07:34:21 PM
Quote from: The1PerfectOrganism on Feb 20, 2014, 06:30:02 PM

I feel the same, the bad special effects are all that takes me out of it now-a-days.
Other than that in feel the film is purely masterful, I don't understand why Resurrection was needed.
It wasn't a movie to think about or interpret but it was purely emotional.
The opposite of Prometheus in many ways and guess what? I love both.

Oh, don't get me started on Resurrection, I hate, absolutely hate that movie with passion more than any other, I don't know if its because its so idiotic or because I for me its a murderer of a perfect masterful trilogy (imo)

Quote from: Elmazalman on Feb 20, 2014, 06:35:59 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Feb 20, 2014, 05:59:28 PM
Quote from: The1PerfectOrganism on Feb 20, 2014, 05:56:47 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Feb 20, 2014, 05:44:59 PM
Thing is, there would be no way Ripley would be so dumb not to search or more so scan the dropship or the entire ship for life forms for more stow aways after finding out the Queen hitched a ride. Dropship would be scanned inch by inch first and foremost before anything else


Considering the entirety of A3, looked like she fvcked up.

I love Alien 3 but it made her look like its her fault for absolute, complete idiocy. A3 showed that Sulacos computer could detect another life form on board. How or why on Earth she or even Bishop would NOT check the dropship if anything else hid in there, nevermind the whole ship before calling it a day
The Sulaco and everything within is a lot of area for one adult and child to cover,Bishop,torn in half and Hicks out of action would be of little help.

Nobody said they would have to go around with flashlights. As A3 showed, a simple Sulaco computer scan of the ship would detect an alien lifeform onboard
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The1PerfectOrganism on Feb 20, 2014, 07:40:05 PM
What was your opinion on Prometheus?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on Feb 20, 2014, 07:44:20 PM
Quote from: The1PerfectOrganism on Feb 20, 2014, 07:40:05 PM
What was your opinion on Prometheus?

I recognize its very lacking but I like it. Maybe Im not thrilled about what Jockeys turned out to be, but I like it. It has this 50s scifi look with suit designs etc, and a classic horror cliffhanger at the very end
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Elmazalman on Feb 20, 2014, 08:23:24 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Feb 20, 2014, 07:34:21 PM
Quote from: The1PerfectOrganism on Feb 20, 2014, 06:30:02 PM

I feel the same, the bad special effects are all that takes me out of it now-a-days.
Other than that in feel the film is purely masterful, I don't understand why Resurrection was needed.
It wasn't a movie to think about or interpret but it was purely emotional.
The opposite of Prometheus in many ways and guess what? I love both.

Oh, don't get me started on Resurrection, I hate, absolutely hate that movie with passion more than any other, I don't know if its because its so idiotic or because I for me its a murderer of a perfect masterful trilogy (imo)

Quote from: Elmazalman on Feb 20, 2014, 06:35:59 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Feb 20, 2014, 05:59:28 PM
Quote from: The1PerfectOrganism on Feb 20, 2014, 05:56:47 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Feb 20, 2014, 05:44:59 PM
Thing is, there would be no way Ripley would be so dumb not to search or more so scan the dropship or the entire ship for life forms for more stow aways after finding out the Queen hitched a ride. Dropship would be scanned inch by inch first and foremost before anything else


Considering the entirety of A3, looked like she fvcked up.

I love Alien 3 but it made her look like its her fault for absolute, complete idiocy. A3 showed that Sulacos computer could detect another life form on board. How or why on Earth she or even Bishop would NOT check the dropship if anything else hid in there, nevermind the whole ship before calling it a day
The Sulaco and everything within is a lot of area for one adult and child to cover,Bishop,torn in half and Hicks out of action would be of little help.

Nobody said they would have to go around with flashlights. As A3 showed, a simple Sulaco computer scan of the ship would detect an alien lifeform onboard
Yet they still went into hyper sleep.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on Feb 20, 2014, 09:21:52 PM
Which makes them look completely stupid. "Hey, a giant Queen just hid in our dropship, surely we have to activate the scan of the ship to see if and what else came here with us! Plus its the queen, she might've laid an egg or maybe more aliens are inside...nah, lets just go to sleep"
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 20, 2014, 10:25:41 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 20, 2014, 04:09:54 PM
Quote from: The1PerfectOrganism on Feb 20, 2014, 04:04:56 PMI honestly believe that there's no reason to believe that the egg was on the Sulaco.
Except it says 'SULACO' quite clearly on the bulkhead the Egg is attached to...

The APC had Sulaco painted on it as well.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Feb 20, 2014, 10:40:03 PM
Quote from: SM on Feb 20, 2014, 10:25:41 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 20, 2014, 04:09:54 PM
Quote from: The1PerfectOrganism on Feb 20, 2014, 04:04:56 PMI honestly believe that there's no reason to believe that the egg was on the Sulaco.
Except it says 'SULACO' quite clearly on the bulkhead the Egg is attached to...

The APC had Sulaco painted on it as well.

painted but wasn't the Sulaco in the shot with the egg not just painted but raised metal letterings?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 20, 2014, 10:40:36 PM
It's some kind of precedent.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Feb 20, 2014, 10:41:41 PM
Of course.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Feb 21, 2014, 01:44:17 AM
 :laugh:
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Feb 21, 2014, 02:08:26 AM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Feb 20, 2014, 07:34:21 PM
Nobody said they would have to go around with flashlights. As A3 showed, a simple Sulaco computer scan of the ship would detect an alien lifeform onboard

What makes you so sure a "simple computer scan" would find it?  Ripley asked Bishop if the computer saw anything moving prior to separation.  An egg isn't going to set off a motion tracker or show up on a security camera if it's not moving and hidden.

FWIW, the Gibson script addresses this as well.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Feb 21, 2014, 02:33:44 AM
You'd think a military ship of the Sulaco's caliber would have some pretty thorough detection capabilities, for detecting intruders as well as unwanted stowaways or foreign objects, like bombs.

I mean if a deep space salvage crew has a little robot that scans an entire room, why wouldn't the military have something to fulfill that function?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Kimarhi on Feb 21, 2014, 02:35:51 AM
Marines lack Army discipline.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Feb 21, 2014, 02:38:19 AM
Quote from: RagingDragon on Feb 21, 2014, 02:33:44 AM
You'd think a military ship of the Sulaco's caliber would have some pretty thorough detection capabilities, for detecting intruders as well as unwanted stowaways or foreign objects, like bombs.

I mean if a deep space salvage crew has a little robot that scans an entire room, why wouldn't the military have something to fulfill that function?

Maybe they did and it still didn't show up on a scan.  Weren't the marines unable to see the aliens in the nest with infrared?

Motion trackers may be the only way to detect these things.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Kimarhi on Feb 21, 2014, 02:41:12 AM
I'd argue this.


It could also be argued that maybe it did and Ripley didn't know how to read it and bishop could no longer access it.  If I showed somebody AFATDS without explanation they'd probably just be like, bruh.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Feb 21, 2014, 03:47:37 AM
That's a good point. It obviously detected it somehow via Bishop's playback on Fury, but the first thing he talked about was the fire. It's almost like he wouldn't even have mentioned it if Ripley didn't dig it out of him. Maybe the ship was the same way, and didn't register something like a facehugger as a threat or significant intruder.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Kimarhi on Feb 21, 2014, 03:53:36 AM
My own way of looking at it was that the Sulaco registered movement aboard but didn't necessarily translate that to a life form.  But when Ripley reactivates him all concerned about the Alien he puts 2 and 2 together.


I honestly can't remember what his exact wording was though I haven't watched any of the movies in awhile.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Feb 21, 2014, 03:59:24 AM
Maybe the computer mistook it for a Roomba.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Feb 21, 2014, 04:17:16 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 21, 2014, 03:59:24 AM
Maybe the computer mistook it for a Roomba.
:laugh: Hahahahaha.

Bishop used to laugh at Roomba jokes.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.brightestyoungthings.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F10%2Faliens-bishop.jpg&hash=99435161ef329ddc73c991693ffd9c5235d2abc2)

Then he took an arrow to the knee.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: judge death on Feb 21, 2014, 09:02:49 AM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Feb 21, 2014, 02:41:12 AM
I'd argue this.


It could also be argued that maybe it did and Ripley didn't know how to read it and bishop could no longer access it.  If I showed somebody AFATDS without explanation they'd probably just be like, bruh.
What I said on the previous page :)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The1PerfectOrganism on Feb 21, 2014, 11:41:15 AM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Feb 21, 2014, 03:53:36 AM
My own way of looking at it was that the Sulaco registered movement aboard but didn't necessarily translate that to a life form.  But when Ripley reactivates him all concerned about the Alien he puts 2 and 2 together.


I honestly can't remember what his exact wording was though I haven't watched any of the movies in awhile.


"Bishop was there an alien on board?!"

"It was with us. All the way."
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Kelgaard on Feb 21, 2014, 01:38:39 PM
We never saw the dropship docking procedure.  Perhaps the queen found an opportunity to hide the egg during that time.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Feb 21, 2014, 01:43:11 PM
Forget hiding it, where did she even get one in the first place? I don't for one second buy into this "she can lay an egg without an egg sac" idea because if that's so, why does she have an egg sac at all? And she clearly isn't carrying an egg when she steps out of the lift at the end of Aliens.

I gave up trying to justify the presence of the egg a long time ago (and I love Alien 3), because any explanation is just a lame series of silly suppositions. The fact is, they f*cked up.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Kelgaard on Feb 21, 2014, 01:59:29 PM
It was one of those hamsters from Aliens.  She brought it with her and eggmorphed it.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on Feb 21, 2014, 04:38:01 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 21, 2014, 02:08:26 AM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Feb 20, 2014, 07:34:21 PM
Nobody said they would have to go around with flashlights. As A3 showed, a simple Sulaco computer scan of the ship would detect an alien lifeform onboard

What makes you so sure a "simple computer scan" would find it?  Ripley asked Bishop if the computer saw anything moving prior to separation.  An egg isn't going to set off a motion tracker or show up on a security camera if it's not moving and hidden.

FWIW, the Gibson script addresses this as well.

When Bishop was accessing the flight recorder Ripley asked him was there an alien onboard. Bishop not only confirmed it was, but knew that it was also in the eev, so Sulacos computer knew about the lifeform and even where did it go, so a bioscan should definitely detect an alien lifeform onboard
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Feb 21, 2014, 08:47:05 PM
We don't know what kind of info bishop was reading when he confirmed the alien was on board. I suggest that he was reading the bios an info showing the face hugger attached to ripley. That's enough to confirm their was one and that it was with us all the way. So ripley could have done all the checks in the world prior to entering hyper sleep and the sulacos computer verified that nothing untoward was going on.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Feb 21, 2014, 08:49:56 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Feb 21, 2014, 04:38:01 PMWhen Bishop was accessing the flight recorder Ripley asked him was there an alien onboard. Bishop not only confirmed it was, but knew that it was also in the eev, so Sulacos computer knew about the lifeform and even where did it go, so a bioscan should definitely detect an alien lifeform onboard

Again, that could simply be due to the facehugger's motion.  And what's a "bioscan?"  Is this something that they've demonstrated in Alien or Aliens (outside of a cryotube, I mean)?  We're not talking about Star Trek here.

Quote from: stephen on Feb 21, 2014, 08:47:05 PM
We don't know what kind of info bishop was reading when he confirmed the alien was on board. I suggest that he was reading the bios an info showing the face hugger attached to ripley. That's enough to confirm their was one and that it was with us all the way. So ripley could have done all the checks in the world prior to entering hyper sleep and the sulacos computer verified that nothing untoward was going on.

Very good point.  If nothing else, the neuroscan would have been a definitive confirmation of the alien's presence.  The only question is why Bishop didn't tell Ripley that she (or Newt or Hicks) was impregnated during hypersleep.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Elmazalman on Feb 21, 2014, 09:02:42 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 21, 2014, 01:43:11 PM
Forget hiding it, where did she even get one in the first place? I don't for one second buy into this "she can lay an egg without an egg sac" idea because if that's so, why does she have an egg sac at all? And she clearly isn't carrying an egg when she steps out of the lift at the end of Aliens.

I gave up trying to justify the presence of the egg a long time ago (and I love Alien 3), because any explanation is just a lame series of silly suppositions. The fact is, they f*cked up.
It's been theorised that the Queen could have been carrying a egg on her back between her spines,impossible to see from the full frontal angle of her emerging from the lift.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 21, 2014, 09:11:56 PM
Indeed.  Safest place to carry an egg - since she was surrounded by them and it wouldn't hard to find one - would be between the spines on her back.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on Feb 21, 2014, 09:12:11 PM
Quote from: stephen on Feb 21, 2014, 08:47:05 PM
We don't know what kind of info bishop was reading when he confirmed the alien was on board. I suggest that he was reading the bios an info showing the face hugger attached to ripley. That's enough to confirm their was one and that it was with us all the way. So ripley could have done all the checks in the world prior to entering hyper sleep and the sulacos computer verified that nothing untoward was going on.

In the novelization (and presumably the script), when asked whether the alien was onboard Bishop doesn't answer for a moment and Ripley grows impatient. Bishop told her to relax and that the answers are in the flight recorder but needs a minute to access it. Since then he said that the alien was on Sulaco, I feel pretty safe to assume the computer recorded and unknown life form, otherwise hed just say there was a movement detected which could've been an alien
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Feb 22, 2014, 10:58:44 AM
So what's wrong with him accessing the bios am again?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on Feb 22, 2014, 02:11:18 PM
It shows that Sulaco could detect an alien lifeform and even where it was and went, so theres no reason why Ripley or Bishop wouldn't tell the Sulaco computer to scan the ship for alien lifeforms
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Feb 22, 2014, 05:01:20 PM
Did it ever occur to you that it might have simply shown up on a security camera at some point when it was crawling around the hypersleep vault?  And you completely ignored the point that stephen raised about the neuroscan of the facehugger.

You seem pretty insistent that the ship had Star Trek technology and could perform sensor scans for lifeforms, but I can recall no precedent for such a thing in any of the Alien films.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on Feb 22, 2014, 05:26:28 PM
Im not inferring that it has such technology, but Bishop asked the Sulaco computer whether there was an alien onboard and the computer confirmed it and even said where it went. If it did so, I think it isn't so crazy to assume that it could do it when they were still on sulaco. The bluray even shows an animation detecting the location of a foreign lifeform. As for Bishop not mentioning neuroscan, I think it can easily be answered by the fact that he was a wreck and accessing such big answers as to if alien was onboard took him some doing
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 22, 2014, 09:24:45 PM
It could simply, as Local Trouble said, be visible on security cameras.  Security camera software can record everything then show the person accessing it, whenever movement occurred.  Bishop just has to look at to when movement was detected during certain times.

Cameras were all they had on the Nostromo.  No Alien Detectors (TM).
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Elmazalman on Feb 22, 2014, 09:46:29 PM
Quote from: SM on Feb 22, 2014, 09:24:45 PM
It could simply, as Local Trouble said, be visible on security cameras.  Security camera software can record everything then show the person accessing it, whenever movement occurred.  Bishop just has to look at to when movement was detected during certain times.

Cameras were all they had on the Nostromo.  No Alien Detectors (TM).
Most of the cameras were probably out,requiring Ash to construct motion detectors,but they did get some security cam footage of quick glimpses of the creature in the air shafts.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SiL on Feb 22, 2014, 10:19:07 PM
There were no cameras in the air vents. Ripley tells Dallas they're blind on the lower decks before they take off.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Elmazalman on Feb 22, 2014, 10:41:02 PM
Quote from: SiL on Feb 22, 2014, 10:19:07 PM
There were no cameras in the air vents. Ripley tells Dallas they're blind on the lower decks before they take off.
I thought that strange too but I was referencing the Alien Lifecycle Easter egg.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 22, 2014, 11:11:35 PM
How much Ash knew is never made clear.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Elmazalman on Feb 23, 2014, 12:23:03 AM
Quote from: SM on Feb 22, 2014, 11:11:35 PM
How much Ash knew is never made clear.
The novel hints at an encounter between Ash and the Alien,maybe something similar could have happened in the film offscreen too,Ash's description of the creature during his interrogation could suggest he might have seen something the others weren't privy to or he could just be going by what he and the others have already seen.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 23, 2014, 12:53:48 AM
Ash never really has an opportunity to study the adult.  Apart from possibly the deleted airlock scene he never even sees it.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Elmazalman on Feb 23, 2014, 01:22:13 AM
Apart from Kane and himself everybody else got to see it,ironic considering how much he wanted to study it.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Feb 23, 2014, 06:14:19 PM
Maybe Mother scanned it with her Alien Detector (TM) and showed her data to Ash.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Feb 24, 2014, 05:29:06 AM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Feb 22, 2014, 02:11:18 PM
It shows that Sulaco could detect an alien lifeform and even where it was and went, so theres no reason why Ripley or Bishop wouldn't tell the Sulaco computer to scan the ship for alien lifeforms

Where it was and where it went?  In the novelization?  While interesting the novelisation isn't the movie though.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Feb 24, 2014, 05:30:33 AM
I have more difficulty believing that the Ripley would have allowed the Sulaco to leave orbit without making certain the derelict was obliterated.  My head canon says that she was able to launch a nuke at the derelict's grid reference before settling down into hypersleep.  Just to be sure.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Feb 24, 2014, 05:38:17 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 24, 2014, 05:30:33 AM
I have more difficulty believing that the Ripley would have allowed the Sulaco to leave orbit without making certain the derelict was obliterated.  My head canon says that she was able to launch a nuke at the derelict's grid reference before settling down into hypersleep.  Just to be sure.

I've often thought this too except she probably couldn't have.  There's probably strict protocols to follow to launch nukes etc and I doubt, even if she wanted to, that Ripley would have been able to do it.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Feb 24, 2014, 05:38:58 AM
Maybe that's how she became a lieutenant.  ;)

Besides that, Hicks seemed confident that he could do it.  Unless he was just humoring Ripley, that is.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 24, 2014, 05:42:23 AM
She'd wouldn't have left without being sure.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Feb 24, 2014, 05:45:29 AM
Is there a scene in the SM-fanfic version of Alien 3 that addresses this?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Feb 24, 2014, 05:48:51 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 24, 2014, 05:38:58 AM
Besides that, Hicks seemed confident that he could do it.  Unless he was just humoring Ripley, that is.

Except that he was out.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Feb 24, 2014, 05:52:03 AM
We don't know how much time elapsed between the queen's last stand and beddy-byes.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Feb 24, 2014, 05:55:04 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 24, 2014, 05:52:03 AM
We don't know how much time elapsed between the queen's last stand and beddy-byes.

Perhaps.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 24, 2014, 05:58:26 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 24, 2014, 05:45:29 AM
Is there a scene in the SM-fanfic version of Alien 3 that addresses this?

No need.  It's taken as read that it's destroyed.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Elmazalman on Feb 24, 2014, 06:01:10 AM
Wouldn't the Derelict have also been destroyed when the Atmosphere Processor went up?Or was that further away?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 24, 2014, 06:07:09 AM
It's implied the AP explosion took it out.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Feb 24, 2014, 06:11:49 AM
Quote from: SM on Feb 24, 2014, 06:07:09 AM
It's implied the AP explosion took it out.

This.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: judge death on Feb 24, 2014, 01:33:50 PM
I doubt it since in the movie they said the radios of the explosion would be 3 miles, if I recall right. Could be me remember it wrong but if it is then I´m sure the derelight ship is still there.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vakarian on Feb 24, 2014, 01:43:41 PM
Bishop said the AP exploding would reduce the area to a cloud of vapour the size of Nebraska. I'm no expert on American geography but i'm pretty sure that's more than three miles.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Feb 24, 2014, 01:44:23 PM
Quote from: judge death on Feb 24, 2014, 01:33:50 PMI doubt it since in the movie they said the radios of the explosion would be 3 miles, if I recall right.
Try 30 kilometres (18.6 miles).
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: judge death on Feb 24, 2014, 03:52:46 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 24, 2014, 01:44:23 PM
Quote from: judge death on Feb 24, 2014, 01:33:50 PMI doubt it since in the movie they said the radios of the explosion would be 3 miles, if I recall right.
Try 30 kilometres (18.6 miles).
Nebraska is still far bigger than 3 miles or 30km, Bishop say 3 miles in one line and nebraska in another, when they fly away it seems to be 3 miles but I dunno.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Feb 24, 2014, 03:58:04 PM
Quote from: judge death on Feb 24, 2014, 03:52:46 PMNebraska is still far bigger than 3 miles or 30km, Bishop say 3 miles in one line and nebraska in another, when they fly away it seems to be 3 miles but I dunno.
He never says 3 miles. The line is:

"How long 'til it blows?" - Hicks
"Four hours. With a blast radius of 30 kilometres; equal to about 40 megatons." - Bishop

Don't forget that's radius too, so the blast is actually 60km (nearly 40 miles) across from one side to the other.

As for the Nebraska thing, I'm happy for an actual American to correct me, but I believe saying something is "the size of Nebraska" is just an American figure of speech for something that's large. I've heard it used in other films too, and they weren't literally talking about the size of the state.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: judge death on Feb 24, 2014, 04:28:43 PM
There it is!
Well I watched aliens with British subtitles, might explain the miles text xD But yes thats it!
60km then I´m sure the alien ship survived it, dont tell fox or else they make a movie about that!

That sounds very likely. :)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Feb 24, 2014, 04:38:26 PM
Quote from: judge death on Feb 24, 2014, 04:28:43 PM60km then I´m sure the alien ship survived it, dont tell fox or else they make a movie about that!
Says who? We're never told how far away the derelict is from the colony. Given how bad the visibility is in the exterior scenes on LV-426, and how the moon apparently hasn't been explored all that thoroughly, the ship wouldn't necessarily have to be particularly far away for it to be unknown to the inhabitants. It could certainly be as little as ten miles, easily close enough to get nuked if the blast radius is nearer twenty miles.

And they already made something about the derelict surviving. It was called Aliens: Colonial Marines.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: judge death on Feb 24, 2014, 04:41:12 PM
True, until we really know it will only be guesses.

I wont count that as canon nor is it a movie but yeah I get your point.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Feb 24, 2014, 04:43:22 PM
Quote from: judge death on Feb 24, 2014, 04:41:12 PMI wont count that as canon nor is it a movie but yeah I get your point.
The less said about that game the better! :)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Xenoscream on Feb 24, 2014, 07:30:49 PM
Quote from: SM on Feb 23, 2014, 12:53:48 AM
Ash never really has an opportunity to study the adult.  Apart from possibly the deleted airlock scene he never even sees it.

It's either in the novel or script (don't remember which) but Ripley asks Ash when his head is on the table "Did you try and communicate with it" to which Ash evasively replies "Won't you let me die with some secrets". So it seems implied he did go and see it in some version of the story.

Also the way he describes the Alien to them implies some greater knowledge of it, unless he's just getting all his information from Mother.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 24, 2014, 10:38:04 PM
Or he's just f**king with their heads.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: TorsoInvader on Feb 25, 2014, 01:21:26 AM
The Tech manual flat out states the Derelict  is untouched because it was behind a mountain range.

That's if you consider the tech manual canon though.


The tech manual also inplies that bishop was a unique android who was privy to information he was not supposed to be.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 25, 2014, 01:27:06 AM
Resurrection says the Derelict was destroyed.

That's if you consider Resurrection canon though.

And consider Ripley an idiot.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: TorsoInvader on Feb 25, 2014, 01:32:34 AM
Quote from: SM on Feb 25, 2014, 01:27:06 AM
Resurrection says the Derelict was destroyed.

it does?

Quote from: SM on Feb 25, 2014, 01:27:06 AM
That's if you consider Resurrection canon though.

Nope.

Quote from: SM on Feb 25, 2014, 01:27:06 AM
And consider Ripley an idiot.

I always assumed she assumed it was destroyed. Since a doubt a civilian would have access to the Sulaco's nukes
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 25, 2014, 01:37:47 AM
That people would think Ripley would leave without being sure boggles the mind.

Slightly less mind boggling, but still fairly mind boggling is people would be so dismissive of her sacrifice on Fiorina.

Quoteit does?

Dialogue in the film implies it's destroyed.
The novelisation directly confirms it.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Feb 25, 2014, 01:44:45 AM
This thread is like Groundhog Day.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 25, 2014, 01:47:56 AM
A moment please...

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.guim.co.uk%2Fsys-images%2FGuardian%2FPix%2Fpictures%2F2014%2F2%2F24%2F1393272875946%2F6f8a0713-5fc8-443b-89a4-f08e405ddfd9-620x413.jpeg&hash=a1db0c6f4b9f3b4ccb5828fb8cc45ffe5276f385)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Feb 25, 2014, 01:50:18 AM
...
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Feb 25, 2014, 01:52:42 AM
Wonderful Harold Ramis.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: TorsoInvader on Feb 25, 2014, 02:00:34 AM
Quote from: SM on Feb 25, 2014, 01:47:56 AM
A moment please...

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.guim.co.uk%2Fsys-images%2FGuardian%2FPix%2Fpictures%2F2014%2F2%2F24%2F1393272875946%2F6f8a0713-5fc8-443b-89a4-f08e405ddfd9-620x413.jpeg&hash=a1db0c6f4b9f3b4ccb5828fb8cc45ffe5276f385)


yeah that was sad news. :'(



Quote from: SM on Feb 25, 2014, 01:37:47 AM
That people would think Ripley would leave without being sure boggles the mind.

Slightly less mind boggling, but still fairly mind boggling is people would be so dismissive of her sacrifice on Fiorina.

Quoteit does?

Dialogue in the film implies it's destroyed.
The novelisation directly confirms it.


ah yes I remember now.

Well as I said I always assumed she assumed it was destroyed, since  40 megatons is a pretty damn big explosion.*shrugs*

I still don't believe she would have had access to the Sulaco's nukes.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 25, 2014, 02:04:07 AM
Probably not.  But if she wasn't sure it was gone, she would've waited until Hicks was well enough to do it.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Feb 25, 2014, 02:21:45 AM
In my head canon, Bishop suggested to her that he could hack into the ship's computer and "promote her" to a USCM lieutenant.  This would in turn grant her the authority to arm and launch the Sulaco's nukes.  ;D

This missing scene would have the added benefit of providing a clear explanation as to why she's suddenly "Leftenant Ripley" in Alien 3.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 25, 2014, 02:25:15 AM
I just figured the Lieutenant was short for Flight Lieutenant (Commercial) based on her WY reinstatement.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Feb 25, 2014, 02:26:37 AM
I know.  I just wanted a clearer alternative explanation for it since no one ever calls her that in Aliens.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: TorsoInvader on Feb 25, 2014, 02:37:40 AM
Quote from: SM on Feb 25, 2014, 02:04:07 AM
Probably not.  But if she wasn't sure it was gone, she would've waited until Hicks was well enough to do it.

You know that is pretty plausible, that actually does make sence. :o

Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 25, 2014, 02:21:45 AM
In my head canon, Bishop suggested to her that he could hack into the ship's computer and "promote her" to a USCM lieutenant.  This would in turn grant her the authority to arm and launch the Sulaco's nukes.  ;D

This missing scene would have the added benefit of providing a clear explanation as to why she's suddenly "Leftenant Ripley" in Alien 3.


LMAO interesting theory. :D
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Feb 25, 2014, 08:38:37 AM
Ripley's rank is a mess.

She's a Warrant Officer in Alien (although we don't find out until Aliens), she's a Lieutenant in Alien 3, and then Resurrection says she's a Lieutenant First Class.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 25, 2014, 09:38:19 PM
To say nothing of her constantly changing registration number.

The line about her being a Warrant Officer is mentioned in the script for Alien, but was ultimately cut.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Feb 25, 2014, 10:16:14 PM
No she says 'warrant officer' during the end transmission, doesn't she?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Feb 25, 2014, 11:10:34 PM
Van Leuwen called her "Officer Ripley" at the inquest, so there's that.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 25, 2014, 11:19:34 PM
She says "Third Officer reporting" in Alien and Van Leuwen refers to her as "Warrant Officer E Ripley".
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Feb 25, 2014, 11:21:26 PM
Was this in the theatrical cuts?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 25, 2014, 11:23:56 PM
Van Leuwen's bit was reinserted into the SE.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SiL on Feb 25, 2014, 11:53:11 PM
So she's had four ranks in as many films. Christ.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Feb 25, 2014, 11:53:46 PM
Nice, thanks SM.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The1PerfectOrganism on Feb 25, 2014, 11:54:44 PM
Quote from: SiL on Feb 25, 2014, 11:53:11 PM
So she's had four ranks in as many films. Christ.

Well, there is a lot of time jumps. :laugh:
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 25, 2014, 11:59:16 PM
Could only be two really.  If someone is Lieutenant First Class, they're not going to be referred to as that.  They'd simply be called "Lieutenant".  I think.

If she attained that rank on accepting Burke's offer, you can explain away Brandywine's lack of continuity by saying that Warrant Officer in 2122 = Lieutenant First Class in 2179.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The1PerfectOrganism on Feb 26, 2014, 12:01:04 AM
Quote from: SM on Feb 25, 2014, 11:59:16 PM
Could only be two really.  If someone is Lieutenant First Class, they're not going to be referred to as that.  They'd simply be called "Lieutenant".  I think.

If she attained that rank on accepting Burke's offer, you can explain away Brandywine's lack of continuity by saying that Warrant Officer in 2122 = Lieutenant First Class in 2179.


That makes sense.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: FiorinaFury161 on Feb 26, 2014, 03:50:42 AM
She does have a Class Two rating on the loaders :P
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SiL on Feb 26, 2014, 07:04:35 AM
Quote from: SM on Feb 25, 2014, 11:59:16 PM
Could only be two really.  If someone is Lieutenant First Class, they're not going to be referred to as that.  They'd simply be called "Lieutenant".  I think.
A Warrant Officer and Third Officer aren't the same thing, but.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Feb 26, 2014, 07:05:43 AM
Quote from: SiL on Feb 26, 2014, 07:04:35 AM
Quote from: SM on Feb 25, 2014, 11:59:16 PM
Could only be two really.  If someone is Lieutenant First Class, they're not going to be referred to as that.  They'd simply be called "Lieutenant".  I think.
A Warrant Officer and Third Officer aren't the same thing, but.

"Dwayne."

"It's Dwayne."
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Feb 26, 2014, 08:50:13 AM
Quote from: SiL on Feb 26, 2014, 07:04:35 AMA Warrant Officer and Third Officer aren't the same thing, but.
I always assumed Warrant Officer was her rank, whereas "third officer" simply referred to the fact she was third in command of the ship.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SiL on Feb 26, 2014, 10:59:04 AM
A Warrant Officer isn't really in line of command (Although a Third Officer is, oddly, fourth or fifth in command.)

However a Third Officer is usually in charge of ship safety, which matches her behaviour throughout the film -- demanding Dallas adhere to quarantine protocol, etc.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Feb 26, 2014, 08:43:26 PM
IIRC and FWIW, the Alien 3 novelization said that Ripley held the marine rank of lieutenant.  Can anyone confirm or deny this?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: FiorinaFury161 on Feb 26, 2014, 08:44:48 PM
I will check my book when I get home, I think that can be "confirmed" status.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Feb 26, 2014, 10:04:21 PM
Quote from: SiL on Feb 26, 2014, 07:04:35 AM
Quote from: SM on Feb 25, 2014, 11:59:16 PM
Could only be two really.  If someone is Lieutenant First Class, they're not going to be referred to as that.  They'd simply be called "Lieutenant".  I think.
A Warrant Officer and Third Officer aren't the same thing, but.

I just figured she was the third officer of the Nostromo - Dallas and Kane being the first and second officer.

Even though Dallas was Captain and Kane was Executive Officer.

f**ked if I know.  Blame Giler and Hill - they described her as Warrant Officer in the sciprt and than Dallas calls her Warrant Officer later on.  Then she describes herself as Third Officer.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SiL on Feb 26, 2014, 10:06:22 PM
Maybe in the future you can be third officer by warrant.

Or, yeah, she was just third in command of the ship.

Hurrah, problems solved!
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: LastSurvivor92 on Feb 28, 2014, 01:53:43 AM
Darkness, I believe the Queen managed to lay it their before she was killed.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Feb 28, 2014, 02:17:32 AM
Well, if she was a warrant officer, and it still had any relation to warrant officers in service today, it would make her very experienced among the crew. Could explain a bit of her badassery.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Feb 28, 2014, 08:36:40 AM
Quote from: winddownandsmoke92 on Feb 28, 2014, 01:53:43 AMDarkness, I believe the Queen managed to lay it their before she was killed.
Except how is she supposed to lay an egg with no egg sac?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Feb 28, 2014, 08:56:42 AM
Like how an Alien makes an egg with no queen ;)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Feb 28, 2014, 08:58:35 AM
Quote from: RagingDragon on Feb 28, 2014, 08:56:42 AMLike how an Alien makes an egg with no queen ;)
Then who does she use to make the egg?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: RagingDragon on Feb 28, 2014, 09:16:26 AM
I want to SEX Ripley.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The1PerfectOrganism on Feb 28, 2014, 11:21:22 PM
Or maybe Colonial Marines...

OR MAYBE a drone hid with the Queen then left the dropship after everyone went to sleep and cocooned whoever pilots the Sulaco (Perhaps a character we never met) therefore that's why the egg is on the wall due to egg morphing and when the electrical fire happens it kills the drone?

IDK f**kin' know. Because there's truthfully many answers you could choose from.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: otto.nilsson3 on Jun 02, 2014, 11:08:38 PM
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this before, but for all the guys/chicks out there that suspects Bishop..
Please explain to me how he transported the Egg without LEGS!!!
And don't come with that; "ehehshhdhhd, exosuit..."
He couldn't possibly move the exosuit without any legs..
Now debate...
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jun 03, 2014, 01:09:43 AM
I don't think anyone suspects Bishop after he gets cleft in twain.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: PsyKore on Jun 03, 2014, 02:24:39 AM
I like to think that there is no physical egg in the Sulaco at all, but the pictures we see is just from Ripley's dream.

It's more plausible a couple of facehuggers hitched a ride up with the Queen and then stowed away somewhere.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: OpenMaw on Jun 03, 2014, 02:31:24 AM
The problem there is the facehugger's behavior would then not make any sense. It would have been more likely for them to immediately seek out Newt and Ripley for impregnation, or to give Hicks a smoochy while he was comatose in the drop ship.

Unless we're going to go with the idea that they let their queen die for some reason, which doesn't seem in keeping.


As an aside I always liked the idea of the queen's stinger doing nasty crap to Bishop's insides from the unused Gibson draft. Just seemed like a neat way to expand on the alien capabilities and avoid them being boxed into just one kind of life cycle.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: PsyKore on Jun 03, 2014, 02:45:30 AM
Quote from: OpenMaw on Jun 03, 2014, 02:31:24 AM
The problem there is the facehugger's behavior would then not make any sense. It would have been more likely for them to immediately seek out Newt and Ripley for impregnation, or to give Hicks a smoochy while he was comatose in the drop ship.

Unless we're going to go with the idea that they let their queen die for some reason, which doesn't seem in keeping.

I dunno. I think facehuggers tend to not attack until someone comes very close to them. And judging by where the Queen hid on the dropship, I don't think the facehuggers would have found Hicks inside. I think it's possible they could have snuck off and found a crevice somewhere to hide in until they felt the time to strike. From my observations, facehuggers have a more "wait and strike" kind of nature.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jun 03, 2014, 07:32:18 AM
Quote from: OpenMaw on Jun 03, 2014, 02:31:24 AMAs an aside I always liked the idea of the queen's stinger doing nasty crap to Bishop's insides from the unused Gibson draft. Just seemed like a neat way to expand on the alien capabilities and avoid them being boxed into just one kind of life cycle.
That was a cool idea (although I didn't like the new Thing-style skin-shedding Aliens he uses), and from what I remember the only really logical continuation from Aliens that was actually proposed in any of the scripts (not counting Twohy's, which starts unrelated).
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jun 03, 2014, 07:55:38 AM
Gibson's original draft had soldiers boarding the Sulaco and being slaughtered by full grown Aliens.  Which wasn't terribly logical.

Think they might've got dropped from the second draft.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jun 03, 2014, 08:16:25 AM
They were, sorry, I should've pointed out I was referring to the second draft, which was far more refined.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: OpenMaw on Jun 03, 2014, 08:39:58 AM
Can someone point me to the second draft? I've only ever read the first one.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jun 03, 2014, 08:44:33 AM
If you PM me your email address I can send you a copy. It isn't available online, as far as I'm aware.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: StrangeShape on Jun 03, 2014, 02:05:26 PM
Quote from: PsyKore on Jun 03, 2014, 02:45:30 AM
Quote from: OpenMaw on Jun 03, 2014, 02:31:24 AM
The problem there is the facehugger's behavior would then not make any sense. It would have been more likely for them to immediately seek out Newt and Ripley for impregnation, or to give Hicks a smoochy while he was comatose in the drop ship.

Unless we're going to go with the idea that they let their queen die for some reason, which doesn't seem in keeping.

I dunno. I think facehuggers tend to not attack until someone comes very close to them. And judging by where the Queen hid on the dropship, I don't think the facehuggers would have found Hicks inside. I think it's possible they could have snuck off and found a crevice somewhere to hide in until they felt the time to strike. From my observations, facehuggers have a more "wait and strike" kind of nature.

I dont think thats the way it is. In Alien we're shown that they can lay dormant for thousands of years and that they never react on their own. All eggs were intact and one moved only when Kane was nearby. It will always be puzzling why the hugger in A3 simply decided to get out to the world and start sightseeing the ship
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jun 03, 2014, 05:18:54 PM
Maybe royal facehuggers are more proactive.

Did Ripley jostle the one that opened right before she torched the nest?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Uncanny Antman on Jun 04, 2014, 04:56:22 AM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jun 03, 2014, 02:05:26 PMIn Alien we're shown that they can lay dormant for thousands of years and that they never react on their own.
When are we shown that?  We see eggs and we see one react to Kane.  Beyond that we don't see much of anything.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jun 04, 2014, 05:09:21 AM
Yup.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jun 04, 2014, 06:04:04 AM
We also saw all the other eggs ignore Kane, even the one he bumped into.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Uncanny Antman on Jun 04, 2014, 03:09:19 PM
We didn't see them ignore him.  We only saw that there was no visible reaction.  There is a difference.  ;)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jun 04, 2014, 03:33:51 PM
Touche.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: OpenMaw on Jun 04, 2014, 06:14:28 PM
Am I the only one who imagines the facehugger in that egg going "Hey, buddy, do you mind? Some of us are trying to get some sleep around here..."

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: colonialmarine9 on Jun 06, 2014, 02:00:14 PM
I think it was Bishop but he didn't actually know that he was doing it, since he is unable to harm humans or put them in harms way the company probably sent an override signal to Bishop to retrieve an egg for the Bio weapons division, after all he was made by Michael Weyland shown at the end of Alien 3. When the atmospheric processor started going critical maybe the queen layed a queen egg because she felt in danger and had the egg hidden from the main hive and Bishop found it. He put it under the cyro tubes so that it would awake during the journey and facehug one of the passengers and it will be easier to transport the alien through ICC. However the company turned off the signal and went back to normal and has no recollection of what he has done so he cannot tell Ripley like when he told her about Burke's plan by accident and it would serve the company to let Bishop to save the survivors in order to have a host. However the question is when did Bishop do this was it when Ripley went after Newt or when he went to bring down the dropship. I think it was went to bring down the dropship because I think there wasn't enough time to go back and fourth to the Sulaco and find the egg in the hive in 15 minutes. He could have tried to trick the survivors when he was bringing the dropship down as it could have been for the second time to act like he just got there. Any thoughts?   
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jun 06, 2014, 02:06:27 PM
Quote from: colonialmarine9 on Jun 06, 2014, 02:00:14 PMHe put it under the cyro tubes so that it would awake during the journey and facehug one of the passengers and it will be easier to transport the alien through ICC.
Except Bishop got ripped in half the moment he stepped onto the Sulaco. Kinda hard to move an egg with no legs.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: colonialmarine9 on Jun 06, 2014, 02:16:15 PM
Sorry if i wasn't clear but I meant that he went before that to put the egg there either when he went out to get the dropship by remote or when ripley went after newt, not when he got ripped in half but way before that  :)


I forgot to mention that i believe that he did this off screen and went to the Sulaco 2 times one to put the egg and the other he got ripped in half
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jun 06, 2014, 02:20:55 PM
Quote from: colonialmarine9 on Jun 06, 2014, 02:16:15 PMSorry if i wasn't clear but I meant that he went before that to put the egg there either when he went out to get the dropship by remote or when ripley went after newt, not when he got ripped in half but way before that  :)

I forgot to mention that i believe that he did this off screen and went to the Sulaco 2 times one to put the egg and the other he got ripped in half
He didn't have time to go to the Sulaco twice. The film makes it pretty clear he barely has time to get the dropship down once. It arrives at the landing pad more or less as Ripley and the wounded Hicks do, and Bishop's still on the ground piloting it by remote. And Ripley's only in the nest for a few minutes, so there's no time then either, especially as Bishop would have to go all the way down into the nest to get the egg, without Ripley seeing him do it.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: colonialmarine9 on Jun 06, 2014, 02:26:29 PM
I know but he could have made it look that way in order to fool Ripley that he had been there the entire time like the dropship could have been hidden near by and when Hicks contacted Bishop he could have started getting ready to bring the ship from its hiding place
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jun 06, 2014, 02:29:10 PM
No, because several times between Bishop going to bring the dropship down and it arriving at the landing pad we see/hear proof that he's still on the ground waiting for it.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: colonialmarine9 on Jun 06, 2014, 02:32:45 PM
Well then when could he have done it or was it the queen but i don't think she was able to enter the cyro chamber area, or was it just a plot hole and we should ignore the egg and just imagine that a queen facehugger snuck on board
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jun 06, 2014, 02:38:23 PM
Simple - it's just a plot hole.

I'm sure they could've come up with a better way of continuing things in the third film, but ultimately they just went for the magic egg.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Uncanny Antman on Jun 06, 2014, 03:20:46 PM
No way man, Bishop definitely did it.  He also switched the Sulaco cryotubes for different ones and repainted the name on the side of the ship in a different colour. 
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: FiorinaFury161 on Jun 06, 2014, 03:37:15 PM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Jun 06, 2014, 03:20:46 PM
No way man, Bishop definitely did it.  He also switched the Sulaco cryotubes for different ones and repainted the name on the side of the ship in a different colour.
Spoiler
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSz7YfoTCmKzXfzzXKOloFcOaOpzeQLFazo8QRt3rQSAzZThRevAw)
[close]
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jun 06, 2014, 03:38:25 PM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Jun 06, 2014, 03:20:46 PMNo way man, Bishop definitely did it.  He also switched the Sulaco cryotubes for different ones and repainted the name on the side of the ship in a different colour.
That devious s.o.b....
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Uncanny Antman on Jun 06, 2014, 03:39:48 PM
You can't trust 'droids, man.  White-blooded bastard.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jun 06, 2014, 04:45:54 PM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Jun 06, 2014, 03:20:46 PM
No way man, Bishop definitely did it.  He also switched the Sulaco cryotubes for different ones and repainted the name on the side of the ship in a different colour.

Bishop's a dick.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jun 06, 2014, 10:56:48 PM
QuoteWell then when could he have done it or was it the queen but i don't think she was able to enter the cyro chamber area

We don't know if the egg is even in the cryochamber.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: colonialmarine9 on Jun 07, 2014, 02:12:10 AM
I just looked at the scenes where Bishop was calling down the dropship and there was too little time for him to do it so its probably just a plot hole either way Aliens and Alien 3 are great movies some of the best ever made, I was just wondering if the Bishop idea would make more sense then random egg and also if it isn't in the cryo chamber where can it be.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jun 07, 2014, 03:34:15 AM
It's not a plot hole.  There was a Queen on the ship.  Eggs come from Queens.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Uncanny Antman on Jun 07, 2014, 04:37:41 AM
Yeah, it's not a plot hole.  It's a plot contrivance.  ;)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jun 07, 2014, 04:44:40 AM
Correct.

"Plot hole" seems to be the catch-all phrase for dumb stuff in movies.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: pvt spunkmajor on Jun 20, 2016, 11:47:18 PM
The queen is no longer fertile once removed from egg sack ........and only removes herself under extreme situations.....I however do not disagree with this whole theory, but the said egg on the royal facehugger must have been laid well in advance removed from the hatchery as a precautionary measure. ripley stumbled in the queen gave the order and either drone or royal hugger carried out the mission ........the question i have ... dose the royal facehugger carry the genes for a new queen or are they just hatchery servants?     If the royal hugger indeed is the one to create a new queen then the buster in ripley (alien 3) was not a new queen. in fact the cow had the queen.  The film states that Ripleys torso invader indeed is of royal decent.

so my theory is that without royal pheromones from the queen the newly hatched facehugger then modified its chromosomes to create a new queen (like adding the x or y chromosome) .the royal face hugger is nothing more than a face hugger that that is independent of needing a queen control and can act without one to carry out deeds for the progression of the species. it helps the queen but is more intelligent  than the drones  and warriors whom rely on pheromones to keep order in the hive.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jun 21, 2016, 03:21:47 PM
Quote from: pvt spunkmajor on Jun 20, 2016, 11:47:18 PMIf the royal hugger indeed is the one to create a new queen then the buster in ripley (alien 3) was not a new queen. in fact the cow had the queen.  The film states that Ripleys torso invader indeed is of royal decent.

Current fanon explanation is that the royal facehugger implants two embryos: a queen and a bodyguard.  Ripley got the queen, the dog/ox got the bodyguard. 

My theory is that facehuggers don't grow spikes, armor and webbing unless threatened by a hostile environment or other organisms.  This is why it looked normal on the Sulaco.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: 426Buddy on Jun 21, 2016, 03:52:42 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jun 21, 2016, 03:21:47 PM
Quote from: pvt spunkmajor on Jun 20, 2016, 11:47:18 PMIf the royal hugger indeed is the one to create a new queen then the buster in ripley (alien 3) was not a new queen. in fact the cow had the queen.  The film states that Ripleys torso invader indeed is of royal decent.

Current fanon explanation is that the royal facehugger implants two embryos: a queen and a bodyguard.  Ripley got the queen, the dog/ox got the bodyguard. 

My theory is that facehuggers don't grow spikes, armor and webbing unless threatened by a hostile environment or other organisms.  This is why it looked normal on the Sulaco.

It also looked normal on the eev after it crashed and was then eyeing the dog up. My thoughts are that the royal facehugger doesn't look any different than a normal one, and that the black webbed royal facehugger just isn't really part of the film or cannon at all.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jun 21, 2016, 05:09:32 PM
Quote from: 426Buddy on Jun 21, 2016, 03:52:42 PMIt also looked normal on the eev after it crashed and was then eyeing the dog up.

That shot isn't in the Assembly Cut, and conversely the armoured Royal Facehugger doesn't appear in the theatrical cut. The only shot of a normal Facehugger seen in the extended cut is the quick glimpse of it unfolding its legs during the opening credits.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: 426Buddy on Jun 21, 2016, 08:32:08 PM
Oh gotcha, I thought we were referring to the theatrical cut as the canon version.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jun 21, 2016, 08:50:45 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jun 21, 2016, 05:09:32 PM
Quote from: 426Buddy on Jun 21, 2016, 03:52:42 PMIt also looked normal on the eev after it crashed and was then eyeing the dog up.

That shot isn't in the Assembly Cut, and conversely the armoured Royal Facehugger doesn't appear in the theatrical cut. The only shot of a normal Facehugger seen in the extended cut is the quick glimpse of it unfolding its legs during the opening credits.

This shot was in the special edition:

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi64.tinypic.com%2F95zot3.jpg&hash=228ec5bf1c2599249046d16c678f76e7c51954ce)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: FiorinaFury161 on Jun 21, 2016, 09:54:28 PM
I may add that there were two huggers in the novel as well. The first one dies after getting critically cut by broken glass of the hypersleep chamber of Newt (trying to get in).
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jun 21, 2016, 11:35:58 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jun 21, 2016, 05:09:32 PM
Quote from: 426Buddy on Jun 21, 2016, 03:52:42 PMIt also looked normal on the eev after it crashed and was then eyeing the dog up.

That shot isn't in the Assembly Cut,

Hence my theory.  It explains how the same facehugger looks different before and after the crash.

Quote from: FiorinaFury161 on Jun 21, 2016, 09:54:28 PM
I may add that there were two huggers in the novel as well. The first one dies after getting critically cut by broken glass of the hypersleep chamber of Newt (trying to get in).

I think the novelization was rejected by the Orthodox Church of Alien 3 Canon.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: FiorinaFury161 on Jun 22, 2016, 02:23:10 AM
You are all sinners before an angry god. - Rev. Dillon

:P

I do like your theory of the evolution of the royal hugger too.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jun 22, 2016, 10:41:57 AM
Quote from: FiorinaFury161 on Jun 21, 2016, 09:54:28 PMI may add that there were two huggers in the novel as well. The first one dies after getting critically cut by broken glass of the hypersleep chamber of Newt (trying to get in).

To be honest, I don't think even ADF knew what was meant to be going on when he wrote that because the first one dies before it can impregnate anyone, so we still have the second magically impregnating two people lol.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: markweatherill on Jun 22, 2016, 11:22:21 AM
1.  who's to say the egg(s) can't move around like jumping beans when they want to?

2. Apone or one of the other cocooned marines somehow got loose and sneaked aboard, hid in a corner and eggmorphed.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jun 22, 2016, 02:38:24 PM
Quote from: FiorinaFury161 on Jun 22, 2016, 02:23:10 AMI do like your theory of the evolution of the royal hugger too.

Well, at least someone finally does.

In fact, Ash told Ripley that the original facehugger had a "funny little habit" of shedding its cells and replacing them with polarized silicon to protect against adverse environmental conditions. 

The "super facehugger" could simply be a visible manifestation of this ability.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jun 22, 2016, 10:41:57 AM
Quote from: FiorinaFury161 on Jun 21, 2016, 09:54:28 PMI may add that there were two huggers in the novel as well. The first one dies after getting critically cut by broken glass of the hypersleep chamber of Newt (trying to get in).

To be honest, I don't think even ADF knew what was meant to be going on when he wrote that because the first one dies before it can impregnate anyone, so we still have the second magically impregnating two people lol.

Salient point.  The second facehugger solved nothing.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: 426Buddy on Jun 22, 2016, 02:47:40 PM
I think the film would have benefited from just leaving the events that transpired on the sulaco unknown. Just seeing the sulaco and the eev break away and crash on the planet (Like in the Alien3 comic).

It would be much easier to theorize what happened then what we have now which doesn't really make any sense.

I would have been a nice lil open ended mystery.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jun 22, 2016, 02:56:44 PM
It's an open ended mystery anyway.  The only Alien 3 script that bothered to explain the egg was the one William Gibson wrote in 1988.  In that version, an egg grows out of Bishop's torso within his cryotube, ostensibly due to having been contaminated with genetic material when the queen impaled him.

It's long been my theory that this is still the basis for the egg's presence on the Sulaco and the screenwriters simply didn't bother to tell us.  However, instead of growing out of Bishop's entrails, it grew from some genetic goo that oozed out of the queen and congealed in the hangar bay's subflooring.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: 426Buddy on Jun 22, 2016, 02:59:52 PM
That's basically how I feel as well, that the eggs can grow from some sort of spore, and perhaps even move on their own.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jun 22, 2016, 03:02:44 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on May 09, 2014, 01:14:46 AM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on May 09, 2014, 12:48:29 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on May 08, 2014, 06:30:23 PM
No, the one about the queen oozing out a glob of goo that congealed in the subflooring of the hangar bay and then grew into the egg we saw.

Again, if she can do that, why does she naturally grow an egg sack? There'd be no point in it even existing.

Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 12, 2012, 04:41:51 AM
Well, the egg sac would allow for the rapid production of fully functional eggs.  This method would be much slower.  Theoretically, a soldier alien could produce eggs the same way.

Quote from: Kimarhi on May 09, 2014, 12:54:30 AM
unless it lets her rapidly produce eggs whereas not having one wouldn't.

:D

:D
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: 426Buddy on Jun 22, 2016, 03:07:44 PM
I like it  ;)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jun 22, 2016, 03:12:27 PM
Quote from: 426Buddy on Jun 22, 2016, 03:07:44 PM
I like it  ;)

It's not a popular theory.  Then again, neither was the royal facehugger back in the day.  Some fans who were so entrenched in the "one embryo per facehugger" rule that any suggestion otherwise was considered heresy and the term "royal facehugger" was met with derision.

Nowadays, it's basically mainstream.  Or at least, SM has accepted it, which amounts to essentially the same thing.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Adam802 on Jun 30, 2016, 04:33:25 AM
This has been a point of debate/discussion in the community for a while.  But I think it's overthink-ed. 

I think it's really safe to assume that the Queen just managed to lay it while hiding on the back of the dropship at some point.  As a parasitic species like the Xeno would propagate as much as possible, so its not hard to believe the Queen could lay an egg or 2 with out her egg-sack.  Or a Drone could've stuck the egg to the dropship while it was very briefly landed on the surface.  Again, Xenos have been known to sneak aboard/around ships frequantly.

As for the egg's apparent location as seen in Alien 3, it was probably an oversight by the A3 filmmakers.  As we know, A3 went through some real development hell, so it's easy to see how the continuity of it all could've been either overlooked or messed up.  Either way, we really shouldn't look too much into the actual LOCATION of the egg as seen in the beginning of A3, and concentrate more on just the fact that there was an egg on the Sulaco in general. 
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Scorpio on Jun 30, 2016, 06:26:38 AM
The xenos placing the eggs there seems to be the most plausible theory.

If you remember in Alien Resurrection, the xenos set a trap by placing eggs near the surface of the water.  The Queen couldn't have put them there as she was immobile in a waste tank at the bottom of the ship.

So I think the xenos placed the eggs onboard the dropship to set a trap for Ripley and company.  Probably while Ripley and Hicks were still trying to escape Operations.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Jun 30, 2016, 06:32:03 AM
While the dropship was still 15 minutes from landing?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Scorpio on Jun 30, 2016, 06:36:34 AM
Quote from: SM on Jun 30, 2016, 06:32:03 AM
While the dropship was still 15 minutes from landing?

It's been a while since I've seen Aliens so I'm not sure of the time frame.  When exactly did the dropship land?


Then it could have been while Bishop was waiting on the platform for Ripley while she went into the hive to rescue Newt.  That makes more sense.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jun 30, 2016, 07:52:07 AM
It's not inconceivable that an Alien could have snuck an egg on board the dropship.

The problem is the egg isn't on the dropship. It's clearly attached to a joist labelled "SULACO" in the opening of the third film.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jun 30, 2016, 08:41:38 AM
Quote from: SM on Jun 30, 2016, 06:32:03 AM
While the dropship was still 15 minutes from landing?

You can make it work.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Scorpio on Jun 30, 2016, 09:46:31 AM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jun 30, 2016, 07:52:07 AM
It's not inconceivable that an Alien could have snuck an egg on board the dropship.

The problem is the egg isn't on the dropship. It's clearly attached to a joist labelled "SULACO" in the opening of the third film.

Then an alien stowed away with the egg and carried it onto the Sulaco.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jun 30, 2016, 12:51:53 PM
So where did that Alien go? Why didn't it attempt to do anything to the other people on board? Why didn't it help the Queen and stop her being killed?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Scorpio on Jun 30, 2016, 02:28:02 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jun 30, 2016, 12:51:53 PM
So where did that Alien go? Why didn't it attempt to do anything to the other people on board? Why didn't it help the Queen and stop her being killed?

It just went to hibernate like the original alien on the Nostromo.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jun 30, 2016, 02:33:47 PM
Leaving it's Queen to die...

Don't buy it. If there were more Aliens on board, we would've seen them.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Scorpio on Jun 30, 2016, 02:50:03 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jun 30, 2016, 02:33:47 PM
Leaving it's Queen to die...

Don't buy it. If there were more Aliens on board, we would've seen them.

We heard the facehugger during the end credits of Aliens.

Plus, we are told in the film that the Queen communicates with the other aliens.  She could've told the xeno to wait and use the facehugger as a backup plan.  Xenos are smart creatures, as they know to cut the power, so this isn't contradicted by the film.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jun 30, 2016, 03:36:14 PM
Quote from: Scorpio on Jun 30, 2016, 02:50:03 PMWe heard the facehugger during the end credits of Aliens.

That was just there as a joke. Cameron said as much.

Quote from: Scorpio on Jun 30, 2016, 02:50:03 PMPlus, we are told in the film that the Queen communicates with the other aliens.  She could've told the xeno to wait and use the facehugger as a backup plan.  Xenos are smart creatures, as they know to cut the power, so this isn't contradicted by the film.

It still doesn't make sense that it wouldn't try and defend it's Queen. She's basically the future of the Hive. She's not gonna sacrifice herself when she has potential backup there.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Scorpio on Jun 30, 2016, 04:28:24 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jun 30, 2016, 03:36:14 PM
Quote from: Scorpio on Jun 30, 2016, 02:50:03 PMWe heard the facehugger during the end credits of Aliens.

That was just there as a joke. Cameron said as much.

Quote from: Scorpio on Jun 30, 2016, 02:50:03 PMPlus, we are told in the film that the Queen communicates with the other aliens.  She could've told the xeno to wait and use the facehugger as a backup plan.  Xenos are smart creatures, as they know to cut the power, so this isn't contradicted by the film.

It still doesn't make sense that it wouldn't try and defend it's Queen. She's basically the future of the Hive. She's not gonna sacrifice herself when she has potential backup there.

I'm not going to make sense of motivation.  But apart from that the theory is plausible.  It makes more sense than any other theory.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Jun 30, 2016, 06:21:09 PM
The egg on the Sulaco was the "egg-morphed" body of Hudson.

You heard it here first.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Cruentus on Jul 11, 2016, 09:30:23 AM
Poor Hudson....almost retired...

I still think the only explanation is the Queen but even that is grasping at straws as we don't know for sure if a Queen can lay an egg without her sac or even grow a new one. AVP extinction did do that but it was merely a game mechanic for a game that isn't likely to be canon.

The Queen could have had the egg on her back...maybe.

Another explanation is A;CM and yes I know how terrible it was but in that game, the xenomorphs were brought on board the Sulaco by the Legato.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Xenoborg on Jul 11, 2016, 07:57:27 PM
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jul 11, 2016, 09:30:23 AM
The Queen could have had the egg on her back...maybe.

How did she manage to sneak her big ass around the ship and hot glue it on the walls without any of them noticing her?  ;)

Quote from: The Cruentus on Jul 11, 2016, 09:30:23 AM
I still think the only explanation is the Queen but even that is grasping at straws as we don't know for sure if a Queen can lay an egg without her sac or even grow a new one. AVP extinction did do that but it was merely a game mechanic for a game that isn't likely to be canon.

We don't know for sure. It's all speculation but maybe being able to squeeze out just one teeny tiny egg is part of being the perfect organism. Again, speculation; but it could be something worth exploring. To survive and maintain a hive, a queen might need at least one minion. So she could maybe produce one egg without needing her sac. Perhaps the sac just speeds up the egg-producing process so she could mass-produce eggs. This is all just imagination, sadly.

Quote from: The Cruentus on Jul 11, 2016, 09:30:23 AM
Another explanation is A;CM and yes I know how terrible it was but in that game, the xenomorphs were brought on board the Sulaco by the Legato.

Please.  >:( ::)

I think the simplest answer is that it was a plot device thoughtlessly put in Alien3 because fans are stupid, right?  :laugh:
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Jul 11, 2016, 09:15:09 PM
Biggest plot hole in the history of cinema.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jul 11, 2016, 09:19:29 PM
Second, after how the hell did Francis Dolarhyde get a note into Hannibal Lecter's cell in Manhunter/Red Dragon.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Cruentus on Jul 11, 2016, 09:27:40 PM
Quote from: The Xenoborg on Jul 11, 2016, 07:57:27 PM
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jul 11, 2016, 09:30:23 AM
The Queen could have had the egg on her back...maybe.

How did she manage to sneak her big ass around the ship and hot glue it on the walls without any of them noticing her?  ;)


I'm just throwing things out there lol not necessarily being serious  ;D Because lets face it, there is no satisfying explanation for that plot hole.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: FiorinaFury161 on Jul 12, 2016, 12:09:28 AM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 11, 2016, 09:19:29 PM
Second, after how the hell did Francis Dolarhyde get a note into Hannibal Lecter's cell in Manhunter/Red Dragon.
Now there is a head scratcher. I need to watch both of those films again soon.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Jul 12, 2016, 04:05:46 AM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 11, 2016, 09:19:29 PM
Second, after how the hell did Francis Dolarhyde get a note into Hannibal Lecter's cell in Manhunter/Red Dragon.

I thought he mailed it to him, and because of civil rights etc, Lector's mail could not be searched.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jul 12, 2016, 07:23:36 AM
Quote from: The Xenoborg on Jul 11, 2016, 07:57:27 PM
We don't know for sure. It's all speculation but maybe being able to squeeze out just one teeny tiny egg is part of being the perfect organism. Again, speculation; but it could be something worth exploring. To survive and maintain a hive, a queen might need at least one minion. So she could maybe produce one egg without needing her sac. Perhaps the sac just speeds up the egg-producing process so she could mass-produce eggs. This is all just imagination, sadly.

I've generally subscribed to some explanation along these lines. That in a crunch, the Queen is capable of squeezing out one egg without her egg sack. How it gets glued to the ceiling is a completely different question.   :laugh:

Quote from: Vermillion on Jul 11, 2016, 09:15:09 PM
Biggest plot hole in the history of cinema.

Definitely the worse for us.

Quote from: stephen on Jul 12, 2016, 04:05:46 AM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 11, 2016, 09:19:29 PM
Second, after how the hell did Francis Dolarhyde get a note into Hannibal Lecter's cell in Manhunter/Red Dragon.

I thought he mailed it to him, and because of civil rights etc, Lector's mail could not be searched.

Over in the UK we have Rule 49 where legal mail from solicitors and etc can't be searched.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: markweatherill on Jul 12, 2016, 10:04:25 AM
Quote from: markweatherill on Jun 22, 2016, 11:22:21 AM

2. Apone or one of the other cocooned marines somehow got loose and sneaked aboard, hid in a corner and eggmorphed.
Quote from: Vermillion on Jun 30, 2016, 06:21:09 PM


The egg on the Sulaco was the "egg-morphed" body of Hudson.

You heard it here first.


;)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Rankles75 on Jul 12, 2016, 01:49:42 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 11, 2016, 09:19:29 PM
Second, after how the hell did Francis Dolarhyde get a note into Hannibal Lecter's cell in Manhunter/Red Dragon.

Let's not forget the poster in the Shawshank Redemption...
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jul 12, 2016, 02:54:11 PM
Quote from: Rankles75 on Jul 12, 2016, 01:49:42 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 11, 2016, 09:19:29 PM
Second, after how the hell did Francis Dolarhyde get a note into Hannibal Lecter's cell in Manhunter/Red Dragon.

Let's not forget the poster in the Shawshank Redemption...

Didn't Red get it for him?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Rankles75 on Jul 12, 2016, 05:02:31 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 12, 2016, 02:54:11 PM
Quote from: Rankles75 on Jul 12, 2016, 01:49:42 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 11, 2016, 09:19:29 PM
Second, after how the hell did Francis Dolarhyde get a note into Hannibal Lecter's cell in Manhunter/Red Dragon.

Let's not forget the poster in the Shawshank Redemption...

Didn't Red get it for him?

I was thinking more along the lines of how Andy reattached the poster after entering the tunnel...
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jul 12, 2016, 05:12:50 PM
Quote from: Rankles75 on Jul 12, 2016, 05:02:31 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 12, 2016, 02:54:11 PM
Quote from: Rankles75 on Jul 12, 2016, 01:49:42 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 11, 2016, 09:19:29 PM
Second, after how the hell did Francis Dolarhyde get a note into Hannibal Lecter's cell in Manhunter/Red Dragon.

Let's not forget the poster in the Shawshank Redemption...

Didn't Red get it for him?

I was thinking more along the lines of how Andy reattached the poster after entering the tunnel...

Was the bottom of the poster attached to the wall or was it hanging from the top?  If the latter, then gravity would presumably take care of covering the hole after he escaped.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Xenoborg on Jul 12, 2016, 06:07:42 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jul 12, 2016, 07:23:36 AM
Quote from: The Xenoborg on Jul 11, 2016, 07:57:27 PM
We don't know for sure. It's all speculation but maybe being able to squeeze out just one teeny tiny egg is part of being the perfect organism. Again, speculation; but it could be something worth exploring. To survive and maintain a hive, a queen might need at least one minion. So she could maybe produce one egg without needing her sac. Perhaps the sac just speeds up the egg-producing process so she could mass-produce eggs. This is all just imagination, sadly.

I've generally subscribed to some explanation along these lines. That in a crunch, the Queen is capable of squeezing out one egg without her egg sack. How it gets glued to the ceiling is a completely different question.   :laugh:

I guess it's a lot more sticky and squishy since it came right out of her xeno-ass.  ;D
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Scorpio on Jul 12, 2016, 06:29:14 PM
I don't subscribe to any theory anymore.  It's a complete mystery that will never be solved.  Maybe it is even supernatural.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Olde on Jul 12, 2016, 07:43:07 PM
Fox executives brought them on board.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jul 12, 2016, 07:52:34 PM
Quote from: Olde on Jul 12, 2016, 07:43:07 PM
Fox executives brought them on board.

That clever remark (or all the variations thereof) never gets trite.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Xenomania on Jul 12, 2016, 09:03:27 PM
The Sulaco egg never bothered me, Aliens have a habit of succesfully getting where they aren't supposed to be. :P The fact that there's meant to be a single facehugger implanting two hosts is more bothersome to me TBH.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Jul 13, 2016, 05:58:06 AM
The problem is the LOCATION of the egg.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Xenomania on Jul 13, 2016, 06:03:04 AM
Quote from: stephen on Jul 13, 2016, 05:58:06 AM
The problem is the LOCATION of the egg.
I know. But like I said, Aliens (and eggs) have a habit of succesfully getting where they aren't supposed to be. ;)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Alien³ on Jul 13, 2016, 07:19:04 AM
I still go by this theory.

Spoiler
Quote from: Alien³ on Jan 11, 2014, 12:33:39 AM
This is a little piece called I've got some time to kill.

This is a theory of how the egg got on board the Sulaco.
I didn't come up with this theory but I have detailed it further.

Things to remember before reading:

  • This only takes into account the Assembly Cut of Alien 3.
  • The writers of the film never included any of this.
  • Spoiler
    Life's too short.
    [close]

As the Queen leaves the hive after Ripley has destroyed it, one of the "Royal" facehuggers...

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120626192517/avp/images/a/a7/Royal_Facehugger.png

...climbs on her back.

As Ripley, Newt, and Bishop are attending Hicks in the dropship, before they walk out into this shot...

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/aliens/dvdcaptures/dvdcapture521.jpg

...the Queen lays an emergency egg on top of the Royal facehugger which then carries it off into the hull of the Sulaco. The Royal facehugger is built to carry eggs, like so...

http://i39.tinypic.com/oupkz7.jpg
(Egg size is debatable.)

...The only onscreen evidence for these Royal facehuggers carrying eggs is the fact that the eggs are placed all over the ground in the hive (seen in Aliens.)

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/aliens/dvdcaptures/dvdcapture478.jpg

I am aware that the drones/warriors can carry the eggs, but for the sake of argument these Royal facehuggers can also carry eggs in order to move them to more secretive locations, which is evident in the opening of Alien 3...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/avpgalaxy/avpg/forum/image002.jpg

So the egg hatches and the facehugger from the egg...

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi41.tinypic.com%2F118ejd5.jpg&hash=417ee6cfdbc7c528bb826ee4a1a8f08701fd84ae)
(You can see it's not a Royal facehugger)

...impregnates Ripley causing the fire that ejects the EEV to Fiorina 161. Along for the ride is the Royal facehugger, which impregnates the Ox and is later found by Murphy.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic4.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20120118103936%2Favp%2Fimages%2F6%2F6a%2FVlcsnap-2012-01-17-21h50m21s184_copie.jpg&hash=a910e098f92abd09c95ed784aa72e0e59b4dc246)

This theory can also be backed up by the sound of the scuttling facehugger at the end of Aliens, after the credits.

For me personally this is how it went down.
[close]
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Scorpio on Jul 13, 2016, 07:28:28 AM
Quote from: Alien³ on Jul 13, 2016, 07:19:04 AM
I still go by this theory.

Spoiler
Quote from: Alien³ on Jan 11, 2014, 12:33:39 AM
This is a little piece called I've got some time to kill.

This is a theory of how the egg got on board the Sulaco.
I didn't come up with this theory but I have detailed it further.

Things to remember before reading:

  • This only takes into account the Assembly Cut of Alien 3.
  • The writers of the film never included any of this.
  • Spoiler
    Life's too short.
    [close]

As the Queen leaves the hive after Ripley has destroyed it, one of the "Royal" facehuggers...

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120626192517/avp/images/a/a7/Royal_Facehugger.png

...climbs on her back.

As Ripley, Newt, and Bishop are attending Hicks in the dropship, before they walk out into this shot...

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/aliens/dvdcaptures/dvdcapture521.jpg

...the Queen lays an emergency egg on top of the Royal facehugger which then carries it off into the hull of the Sulaco. The Royal facehugger is built to carry eggs, like so...

http://i39.tinypic.com/oupkz7.jpg
(Egg size is debatable.)

...The only onscreen evidence for these Royal facehuggers carrying eggs is the fact that the eggs are placed all over the ground in the hive (seen in Aliens.)

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/aliens/dvdcaptures/dvdcapture478.jpg

I am aware that the drones/warriors can carry the eggs, but for the sake of argument these Royal facehuggers can also carry eggs in order to move them to more secretive locations, which is evident in the opening of Alien 3...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/avpgalaxy/avpg/forum/image002.jpg

So the egg hatches and the facehugger from the egg...

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi41.tinypic.com%2F118ejd5.jpg&hash=417ee6cfdbc7c528bb826ee4a1a8f08701fd84ae)
(You can see it's not a Royal facehugger)

...impregnates Ripley causing the fire that ejects the EEV to Fiorina 161. Along for the ride is the Royal facehugger, which impregnates the Ox and is later found by Murphy.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic4.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20120118103936%2Favp%2Fimages%2F6%2F6a%2FVlcsnap-2012-01-17-21h50m21s184_copie.jpg&hash=a910e098f92abd09c95ed784aa72e0e59b4dc246)

This theory can also be backed up by the sound of the scuttling facehugger at the end of Aliens, after the credits.

For me personally this is how it went down.
[close]

I still don't buy that the Queen can lay 'emergency eggs', but otherwise interesting theory.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: 426Buddy on Jul 13, 2016, 12:36:11 PM
Also wouldn't the royal facehugger lay the queen?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Jul 13, 2016, 12:46:56 PM
Royal face hugger.  Lol

Royale with cheese. 

Invent shit to make it work after the fact.

Nope. Not buying that.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: 426Buddy on Jul 13, 2016, 12:54:25 PM
Quote from: Vermillion on Jul 13, 2016, 12:46:56 PM
Royal face hugger.  Lol

Royale with cheese. 

Invent shit to make it work after the fact.

Nope. Not buying that.

The royal facehugger isn't really an invention made after the fact though, it may not be canon but it was created and intended for use in an alien film, It's also a staple of the EU.

Not that I ever cared for the idea or the films design of the creature. :)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: FiorinaFury161 on Jul 13, 2016, 01:44:55 PM
Quote from: Alien³ on Jul 13, 2016, 07:19:04 AM
I still go by this theory.

Spoiler
Quote from: Alien³ on Jan 11, 2014, 12:33:39 AM
This is a little piece called I've got some time to kill.

This is a theory of how the egg got on board the Sulaco.
I didn't come up with this theory but I have detailed it further.

Things to remember before reading:

  • This only takes into account the Assembly Cut of Alien 3.
  • The writers of the film never included any of this.
  • Spoiler
    Life's too short.
    [close]

As the Queen leaves the hive after Ripley has destroyed it, one of the "Royal" facehuggers...

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120626192517/avp/images/a/a7/Royal_Facehugger.png

...climbs on her back.

As Ripley, Newt, and Bishop are attending Hicks in the dropship, before they walk out into this shot...

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/aliens/dvdcaptures/dvdcapture521.jpg

...the Queen lays an emergency egg on top of the Royal facehugger which then carries it off into the hull of the Sulaco. The Royal facehugger is built to carry eggs, like so...

http://i39.tinypic.com/oupkz7.jpg
(Egg size is debatable.)

...The only onscreen evidence for these Royal facehuggers carrying eggs is the fact that the eggs are placed all over the ground in the hive (seen in Aliens.)

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/aliens/dvdcaptures/dvdcapture478.jpg

I am aware that the drones/warriors can carry the eggs, but for the sake of argument these Royal facehuggers can also carry eggs in order to move them to more secretive locations, which is evident in the opening of Alien 3...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/avpgalaxy/avpg/forum/image002.jpg

So the egg hatches and the facehugger from the egg...

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi41.tinypic.com%2F118ejd5.jpg&hash=417ee6cfdbc7c528bb826ee4a1a8f08701fd84ae)
(You can see it's not a Royal facehugger)

...impregnates Ripley causing the fire that ejects the EEV to Fiorina 161. Along for the ride is the Royal facehugger, which impregnates the Ox and is later found by Murphy.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic4.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20120118103936%2Favp%2Fimages%2F6%2F6a%2FVlcsnap-2012-01-17-21h50m21s184_copie.jpg&hash=a910e098f92abd09c95ed784aa72e0e59b4dc246)

This theory can also be backed up by the sound of the scuttling facehugger at the end of Aliens, after the credits.

For me personally this is how it went down.
[close]
Alien 3 yet again comes up with a brilliant scheme to explain a very uneasy topic. You got my vote. I have a small detail to add...

Spoiler
Let's say (for argument's sake) that the Alien Queen can not lay a fully developed egg without the egg sac. Alright? Perhaps she can still begin the process of an egg (Phase 1), kinda like the life process of an Alien:
Phase 1 - Embryo
Phase 2 - Chestburster
Phase 3 - Skin molting phase
Phase 4 - Adult/Full scale

The Royal facehugger can carry it very easily without fear of damaging itself, therefore can climb to extremely unlikely places to avoid being checked for. The egg can adapt to it's surroundings and the life cycle continues. Meanwhile, the Royal Facehugger can scout for victims for itself and the soon to be hatched facehugger. Once ready, both go on their final mission and impregnate the victims with their embryos.

A tad far fetched, but still believable. Right? :P
[close]
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Alien³ on Jul 13, 2016, 02:37:48 PM
Quote from: 426Buddy on Jul 13, 2016, 12:36:11 PM
Also wouldn't the royal facehugger lay the queen?

Quote from: Vermillion on Jul 13, 2016, 12:46:56 PM
Royal face hugger.  Lol

Invent shit to make it work after the fact.

Nope. Not buying that.

Pfft, I just named it that for sake of argument. It still exists in film and is visibly different from ones seen previously. It must serve some purpose to look like that.

"Royale with cheese." Haha

Quote from: FiorinaFury161 on Jul 13, 2016, 01:44:55 PM
Quote from: Alien³ on Jul 13, 2016, 07:19:04 AM
I still go by this theory.

Spoiler
Quote from: Alien³ on Jan 11, 2014, 12:33:39 AM
This is a little piece called I've got some time to kill.

This is a theory of how the egg got on board the Sulaco.
I didn't come up with this theory but I have detailed it further.

Things to remember before reading:

  • This only takes into account the Assembly Cut of Alien 3.
  • The writers of the film never included any of this.
  • Spoiler
    Life's too short.
    [close]

As the Queen leaves the hive after Ripley has destroyed it, one of the "Royal" facehuggers...

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120626192517/avp/images/a/a7/Royal_Facehugger.png

...climbs on her back.

As Ripley, Newt, and Bishop are attending Hicks in the dropship, before they walk out into this shot...

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/aliens/dvdcaptures/dvdcapture521.jpg

...the Queen lays an emergency egg on top of the Royal facehugger which then carries it off into the hull of the Sulaco. The Royal facehugger is built to carry eggs, like so...

http://i39.tinypic.com/oupkz7.jpg
(Egg size is debatable.)

...The only onscreen evidence for these Royal facehuggers carrying eggs is the fact that the eggs are placed all over the ground in the hive (seen in Aliens.)

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/aliens/dvdcaptures/dvdcapture478.jpg

I am aware that the drones/warriors can carry the eggs, but for the sake of argument these Royal facehuggers can also carry eggs in order to move them to more secretive locations, which is evident in the opening of Alien 3...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/avpgalaxy/avpg/forum/image002.jpg

So the egg hatches and the facehugger from the egg...

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi41.tinypic.com%2F118ejd5.jpg&hash=417ee6cfdbc7c528bb826ee4a1a8f08701fd84ae)
(You can see it's not a Royal facehugger)

...impregnates Ripley causing the fire that ejects the EEV to Fiorina 161. Along for the ride is the Royal facehugger, which impregnates the Ox and is later found by Murphy.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic4.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20120118103936%2Favp%2Fimages%2F6%2F6a%2FVlcsnap-2012-01-17-21h50m21s184_copie.jpg&hash=a910e098f92abd09c95ed784aa72e0e59b4dc246)

This theory can also be backed up by the sound of the scuttling facehugger at the end of Aliens, after the credits.

For me personally this is how it went down.
[close]
Alien 3 yet again comes up with a brilliant scheme to explain a very uneasy topic. You got my vote. I have a small detail to add...

Spoiler
Let's say (for argument's sake) that the Alien Queen can not lay a fully developed egg without the egg sac. Alright? Perhaps she can still begin the process of an egg (Phase 1), kinda like the life process of an Alien:
Phase 1 - Embryo
Phase 2 - Chestburster
Phase 3 - Skin molting phase
Phase 4 - Adult/Full scale

The Royal facehugger can carry it very easily without fear of damaging itself, therefore can climb to extremely unlikely places to avoid being checked for. The egg can adapt to it's surroundings and the life cycle continues. Meanwhile, the Royal Facehugger can scout for victims for itself and the soon to be hatched facehugger. Once ready, both go on their final mission and impregnate the victims with their embryos.

A tad far fetched, but still believable. Right? :P
[close]

Cheers man! And your theory is interesting!
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Jul 15, 2016, 04:11:03 AM
Quote from: Alien³ on Jul 13, 2016, 07:19:04 AM
I still go by this theory.

Spoiler
Quote from: Alien³ on Jan 11, 2014, 12:33:39 AM
This is a little piece called I've got some time to kill.

This is a theory of how the egg got on board the Sulaco.
I didn't come up with this theory but I have detailed it further.

Things to remember before reading:

  • This only takes into account the Assembly Cut of Alien 3.
  • The writers of the film never included any of this.
  • Spoiler
    Life's too short.
    [close]

As the Queen leaves the hive after Ripley has destroyed it, one of the "Royal" facehuggers...

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120626192517/avp/images/a/a7/Royal_Facehugger.png

...climbs on her back.

As Ripley, Newt, and Bishop are attending Hicks in the dropship, before they walk out into this shot...

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/aliens/dvdcaptures/dvdcapture521.jpg

...the Queen lays an emergency egg on top of the Royal facehugger which then carries it off into the hull of the Sulaco. The Royal facehugger is built to carry eggs, like so...

http://i39.tinypic.com/oupkz7.jpg
(Egg size is debatable.)

...The only onscreen evidence for these Royal facehuggers carrying eggs is the fact that the eggs are placed all over the ground in the hive (seen in Aliens.)

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/aliens/dvdcaptures/dvdcapture478.jpg

I am aware that the drones/warriors can carry the eggs, but for the sake of argument these Royal facehuggers can also carry eggs in order to move them to more secretive locations, which is evident in the opening of Alien 3...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/avpgalaxy/avpg/forum/image002.jpg

So the egg hatches and the facehugger from the egg...

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi41.tinypic.com%2F118ejd5.jpg&hash=417ee6cfdbc7c528bb826ee4a1a8f08701fd84ae)
(You can see it's not a Royal facehugger)

...impregnates Ripley causing the fire that ejects the EEV to Fiorina 161. Along for the ride is the Royal facehugger, which impregnates the Ox and is later found by Murphy.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic4.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20120118103936%2Favp%2Fimages%2F6%2F6a%2FVlcsnap-2012-01-17-21h50m21s184_copie.jpg&hash=a910e098f92abd09c95ed784aa72e0e59b4dc246)

This theory can also be backed up by the sound of the scuttling facehugger at the end of Aliens, after the credits.

For me personally this is how it went down.
[close]

Its a theory I've been saying for years.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: BR1XER on Jul 15, 2016, 05:27:43 AM
I've always wondered whether the base, or roots, of the eggs ever provided mobility, albeit very slow, at a snail's pace. Actually, perhaps the base is like a snail's foot.  :o

Could explain the spatial arrangement of eggs we so often see in Alien, Aliens, etc. in locations distant from the queen's chambers. And how an 'emergency egg' laid by Aliens' Queen could gravitate to an area with more hosts.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Elmazalman on Jul 15, 2016, 09:04:15 PM
Quote from: Doc Dia Beetis on Jul 15, 2016, 05:27:43 AM
I've always wondered whether the base, or roots, of the eggs ever provided mobility, albeit very slow, at a snail's pace. Actually, perhaps the base is like a snail's foot.  :o

Could explain the spatial arrangement of eggs we so often see in Alien, Aliens, etc. in locations distant from the queen's chambers. And how an 'emergency egg' laid by Aliens' Queen could gravitate to an area with more hosts.
Those thick worm-like tendrils emanating from the egg base?I remember reading somewhere that their purpose was to extract nutrient from the ground (egg carpet) to sustain itself over an  indefinite period of time,keeping the facehugger within alive until a potential host made itself available.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jul 16, 2016, 10:20:44 AM
I read a really interesting piece that says the Facehugger isn't actually alive at all while the Egg's inactive. Only when it detects a host does the Egg transfer all of it's remaining bio-electrical energy to the Facehugger, thereby sacrificing itself to bring its occupant to life at that point.

Would help explain how they apparently survived so long inside the derelict.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Scorpio on Jul 16, 2016, 11:19:07 AM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 16, 2016, 10:20:44 AM

Would help explain how they apparently survived so long inside the derelict.

Weren't the eggs held in stasis by that blue laser in the derelict?  And when Kane entered the egg silo, it got interrupted.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jul 16, 2016, 08:42:30 PM
Quote from: Scorpio on Jul 16, 2016, 11:19:07 AM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 16, 2016, 10:20:44 AM

Would help explain how they apparently survived so long inside the derelict.

Weren't the eggs held in stasis by that blue laser in the derelict?  And when Kane entered the egg silo, it got interrupted.

I've always believed that.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: stephen on Jul 18, 2016, 01:54:03 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 16, 2016, 08:42:30 PM
Quote from: Scorpio on Jul 16, 2016, 11:19:07 AM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 16, 2016, 10:20:44 AM

Would help explain how they apparently survived so long inside the derelict.

Weren't the eggs held in stasis by that blue laser in the derelict?  And when Kane entered the egg silo, it got interrupted.

I've always believed that.

Likewise.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Perfect-Organism on Jul 18, 2016, 03:11:44 AM
I think Bishop did it.  Perhaps he didn't intend for the eggs to get loose, but he had conflicting directives which could have fried his brain a little.  Burke told him to bring the specimens back.  Dip let told him to destroy them.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jul 18, 2016, 10:38:41 AM
I hate the Bishop-did-it idea. It completely undermines his character arc in the film.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Perfect-Organism on Jul 18, 2016, 11:19:44 AM
The only reason the idea of Bishop planting the eggs on the Sulaco exists is because of the ill-conceived premise of Alien 3.  The best solution is to erase Alien 3 from canon and then the egg question becomes a moot point.  As it should.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Kelgaard on Jul 18, 2016, 02:19:41 PM
Let's not open that can of worms here.  :P

And the Bishop theory only makes the situation even more implausible.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jul 18, 2016, 05:11:08 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 18, 2016, 11:19:44 AMThe best solution is to erase Alien 3 from canon and then the egg question becomes a moot point.

That's not the "best solution". That's the "fanboys hate the third film" solution.

But as Kelgaard says, can of worms...
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Jul 18, 2016, 11:46:20 PM
I still think Bishop did it.

Notice the drop ship comes up from where Ripley and the eggs were....

He's a sneaky ass droid.  Programmed by the company.

At 0:40

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Perfect-Organism on Jul 19, 2016, 12:23:00 AM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 18, 2016, 05:11:08 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 18, 2016, 11:19:44 AMThe best solution is to erase Alien 3 from canon and then the egg question becomes a moot point.

That's not the "best solution". That's the "fanboys hate the third film" solution.

But as Kelgaard says, can of worms...

Spoken like a true Alien 3 fanboy.   ;)


Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 18, 2016, 10:38:41 AM
I hate the Bishop-did-it idea. It completely undermines his character arc in the film.

I don't think it undermines it.  Rather it enriches it.  I appreciate that you see Bishop as more or less a Disney character, but there is at least the potential of there being a lot more to this character.

I am not proposing a black and white treatment of Bishop, where he is either good or bad.  Rather he could be treated much more "grey-scale" and ambiguous.  As I mentioned before, he does have conflicting instructions.  There is a very valid reason to collect specimens.  If he truly wants to keep humanity safe, then he can do that the best way through researching the aliens.  Hence bringing back some eggs makes sense, and it is not evil.  But he also recognizes the risks so he tries to keep them away from Ripley, Hicks and Newt.  In this way, he follows the orders of Ripley and Burke.

But, in truth, I still prefer the solution of removing Alien 3 from Canon.  It's just a convoluted and contrived film that did more harm than good.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jul 19, 2016, 01:05:11 AM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 18, 2016, 10:38:41 AM
I hate the Bishop-did-it idea. It completely undermines his character arc in the film.

Yeah, it's a dumb theory that only nitwits believe since Bishop never had a plausible opportunity to go off searching for eggs.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Jul 19, 2016, 01:24:46 AM
He set the drop ship down in the egg level.  Pick one up.
Then flew back up and got Ripley Newt and the Queen just in time!

But then again.  I don't like Alien 3 because they killed off two of my fav Characters. 

C'est la vie. 
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: windebieste on Jul 19, 2016, 02:09:45 AM
It's one of the reasons I like it.  'ALIEN 3' depicts a cold, heartless and uncaring Universe where human beings are fragile and easily disposed of. 

It's a core theme in the whole series.  Shit, Man.  Parker was my favourite character... we should have him retconned back into the series.  Along with everyone else who died an 'unfair death'.

By the way, yes.  The egg(s) on board the Sulaco can be explained.  You have all the pieces right in front of you - you just haven't put  together properly yet.  ;D

-Windebieste.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jul 19, 2016, 09:38:03 AM
Quote from: Vermillion on Jul 19, 2016, 01:24:46 AMHe set the drop ship down in the egg level.  Pick one up.

If there was somewhere to land down there, he would've dropped Ripley off down there. They know Newt is going to be in the Hive somewhere, so why wouldn't he get her closer if it was an option?

They set down on the only landing pat there was.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 19, 2016, 12:23:00 AMI don't think it undermines it.

It does. The entire point of his character in the film is to have Ripley start out prejudiced against and mistrustful of him (thanks to Ash), only to have him prove himself to her over the course of the movie and have her eventually develop trust towards him.

If he's actually some evil company machine getting her impregnated with Aliens, even against his own will, it undermines all that.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 19, 2016, 12:23:00 AMSpoken like a true Alien 3 fanboy.   ;)

I was referring to the insinuation that writing off the third film is the "best solution" going forward.

There are a hundred other solutions, many of them arguably better and certainly far less divisive. People who keep saying scrapping film three is the only/best answer (to a problem that doesn't even really exist) just sound like narrow-minded Hix n' Noot nerds (regardless of whether they actually are or not). Maybe a retcon would be good, but maybe it would be total cack and just mess everything up. Claiming it's the outright best solution is pretty ignorant, especially as nothing's been made yet.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: FiorinaFury161 on Jul 19, 2016, 11:12:13 AM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 19, 2016, 09:38:03 AM
Maybe a retcon would be good, but maybe it would be total cack and just mess everything up.
I would bet on the latter.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Jul 19, 2016, 11:53:51 AM
A:CM is the bible. 

It explains it perfectly.

Oy vey.


Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 19, 2016, 09:38:03 AM
Quote from: Vermillion on Jul 19, 2016, 01:24:46 AMHe set the drop ship down in the egg level.  Pick one up.

If there was somewhere to land down there, he would've dropped Ripley off down there. They know Newt is going to be in the Hive somewhere, so why wouldn't he get her closer if it was an option?

They set down on the only landing pat there was.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 19, 2016, 12:23:00 AMI don't think it undermines it.

It does. The entire point of his character in the film is to have Ripley start out prejudiced against and mistrustful of him (thanks to Ash), only to have him prove himself to her over the course of the movie and have her eventually develop trust towards him.

If he's actually some evil company machine getting her impregnated with Aliens, even against his own will, it undermines all that.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 19, 2016, 12:23:00 AMSpoken like a true Alien 3 fanboy.   ;)

I was referring to the insinuation that writing off the third film is the "best solution" going forward.

There are a hundred other solutions, many of them arguably better and certainly far less divisive. People who keep saying scrapping film three is the only/best answer (to a problem that doesn't even really exist) just sound like narrow-minded Hix n' Noot nerds (regardless of whether they actually are or not). Maybe a retcon would be good, but maybe it would be total cack and just mess everything up. Claiming it's the outright best solution is pretty ignorant, especially as nothing's been made yet.

I liked his character arc, He's unscrupulous. 

His maker, Bishop 2...if you think he is human...tried to coerce Ripley to not kill herself to save the Alien.

Bad programming.  lol
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: mez86 on Jul 21, 2016, 10:01:16 PM
Couldn't the Egg been placed on the sulaco half way through the film before the drop ship returns to the bases to pick the crew up after the hive ambush.

Also the first time I watched alien 3 was on Channel 4 scify nights and their version of alien 3 had a alien and facehugger in the cryo room before the firestarts. So a alien could have snuck aboard the ship and was their to protect the egg until the next host came along.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jul 21, 2016, 10:30:08 PM
Quote from: mez86 on Jul 21, 2016, 10:01:16 PM
Couldn't the Egg been placed on the sulaco half way through the film before the drop ship returns to the bases to pick the crew up after the hive ambush.

You mean by Ferro and Spunkmeyer?  Assuming they were traitors and working for Burke, where did they get the egg from?

Also, wouldn't it have taken the dropship quite a while to return to the Sulaco and then to the surface in time to be there when Hicks requested the evac, all without Gorman and the others knowing about it?  Or was Gorman in on it too?

Just how many traitors would this conspiracy have needed?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: mez86 on Jul 21, 2016, 10:47:16 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 21, 2016, 10:30:08 PM
Quote from: mez86 on Jul 21, 2016, 10:01:16 PM
Couldn't the Egg been placed on the sulaco half way through the film before the drop ship returns to the bases to pick the crew up after the hive ambush.

You mean by Ferro and Spunkmeyer?  Assuming they were traitors and working for Burke, where did they get the egg from?

Also, wouldn't it have taken the dropship quite a while to return to the Sulaco and then to the surface in time to be there when Hicks requested the evac, all without Gorman and the others knowing about it?  Or was Gorman in on it too?

Just how many traitors would this conspiracy have needed?
My memoir was fuzzy I thought the drop ship had returned to the sulaco but after I rewatched that scene I see that the ship remained on  the planet
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Alien³ on Jul 21, 2016, 10:50:39 PM
Alien 3 gets a lot of shit for this.

But don't forgot, the scuttling facehugger sound after the credits of Aliens. :-*
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jul 21, 2016, 10:54:14 PM
Quote from: Alien³ on Jul 21, 2016, 10:50:39 PM
Alien 3 gets a lot of shit for this.

But don't forgot, the scuttling facehugger sound after the credits of Aliens. :-*

A facehugger is more easily explained than an egg.  Alien 3 did that, not Aliens.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Alien³ on Jul 21, 2016, 11:00:05 PM
But what came first?

The facehugger or the egg?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jul 22, 2016, 12:10:57 AM
Quote from: Alien³ on Jul 21, 2016, 11:00:05 PM
But what came first?

The facehugger or the egg?

The black ooze.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Alien³ on Jul 22, 2016, 02:28:18 AM
Touché.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Jul 22, 2016, 02:31:11 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 22, 2016, 12:10:57 AM
Quote from: Alien³ on Jul 21, 2016, 11:00:05 PM
But what came first?

The facehugger or the egg?

The black ooze.

Jeezus. It gets worse. Lol
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: comicsupreme on Jul 24, 2016, 09:07:37 PM
It would have probably been the Queen laying an emergency egg or the writers could not think of a plausible explanation as to why the egg was there   ???
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: FiorinaFury161 on Jul 24, 2016, 10:52:30 PM
Imagine the opening sequence was like this:

Shot one: Outside of Sulaco drifting in space
Shot two: Loading dock, zooming to dropship
shot montage:
- Queen sits inside of loading gears, lays egg, places it deep inside of gears, unseen to eyes, which blends in with wires, etc.
- Quick rundown of Queen ripping Bishop, Newt search, powerloader battle, Queen discarded into space vacuum
Shot four: Egg opens, Royal facehugger emerges.
Continuation of Alien3 opening (only with Royal facehugger in scenes)

I hope y'all are happy. :P
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jul 25, 2016, 08:09:44 AM
You don't even need to add something about the Queen laying another Egg. Just show a lone Facehugger scuttling out of the dropship amid the confusion and running off to hide.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jul 25, 2016, 08:19:12 AM
That's the way I'd fix it. But it does beg the question of why the hugger wouldn't come and get involved to try and take Newt. Only way I could handwave it would be the Queen tells it not to get involved until it has all calmed down.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: FiorinaFury161 on Jul 25, 2016, 10:01:46 AM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 25, 2016, 08:09:44 AM
You don't even need to add something about the Queen laying another Egg. Just show a lone Facehugger scuttling out of the dropship amid the confusion and running off to hide.
Aye, that would work!

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jul 25, 2016, 08:19:12 AM
That's the way I'd fix it. But it does beg the question of why the hugger wouldn't come and get involved to try and take Newt. Only way I could handwave it would be the Queen tells it not to get involved until it has all calmed down.
That would work as well!

I was mainly blabbering about if there had to be an egg, that's my theory on how to fix the opening.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Perfect-Organism on Jul 25, 2016, 01:05:39 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 25, 2016, 08:09:44 AM
You don't even need to add something about the Queen laying another Egg. Just show a lone Facehugger scuttling out of the dropship amid the confusion and running off to hide.

But the egg was shown in the film.  That's not offering an explanation.  It's actually changing the film.  Also, there must have been 2 eggs / facehuggers to accommodate the 2 aliens in the film, unless we go with that lame twin-spore facehugger idea.  Having 2 lone facehuggers on the dropship would have been totally credible, but alas, the egg...
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jul 25, 2016, 01:55:27 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 25, 2016, 01:05:39 PMBut the egg was shown in the film.  That's not offering an explanation.

It would be in lieu of the egg, obviously.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 25, 2016, 01:05:39 PMAlso, there must have been 2 eggs / facehuggers to accommodate the 2 aliens in the film, unless we go with that lame twin-spore facehugger idea.  Having 2 lone facehuggers on the dropship would have been totally credible, but alas, the egg...

I like the multi-embryo Royal Facehugger idea. Too bad they scrapped it.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jul 25, 2016, 02:25:33 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 25, 2016, 01:55:27 PM
I like the multi-embryo Royal Facehugger idea. Too bad they scrapped it.

How did they scrap it?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jul 25, 2016, 03:21:18 PM
Well, I guess it could be argued that as a concept they didn't, but I was referring specifically to the Royal Facehugger they originally designed for the movie but which is now relegated to the Assembly Cut.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Jul 25, 2016, 04:03:33 PM
Relax. Alien 3 was all a bad dream.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: FiorinaFury161 on Jul 25, 2016, 10:49:51 PM
Quote from: Vermillion on Jul 25, 2016, 04:03:33 PM
Relax. Alien 3 was all a bad dream.
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Perfect-Organism on Jul 25, 2016, 11:02:07 PM
Quote from: FiorinaFury161 on Jul 25, 2016, 10:49:51 PM
Quote from: Vermillion on Jul 25, 2016, 04:03:33 PM
Relax. Alien 3 was all a bad dream.
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

We will never all see eye to eye on this.  That's ok.

But it was a bad dream!!
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Primordial on Jul 27, 2016, 09:04:04 PM
Lately, I was thinking about a possibility for the egg. Since the alien seem capable of regenerating itself, it would be interesting if the Queen could cut of one of her limb and make it 'auto-eggmorph' while the cut-off limb regenerates. It could explain why this resulting facehugger lays directly a Queen.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jul 27, 2016, 09:15:53 PM
That's kinda similar to what Gibson had in mind at the start of his script, where she deposited some spores inside Bishop that then developed into a full-grown egg.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Jul 27, 2016, 11:36:03 PM
Egg morphing is just lame!!!!!
Stop the insanity!!!!

Mighty Morphing Power Spores!!

It's a cop out. That's all it is. 

Kill the expensive characters and make shit up to get an alien in the movie with the Oscar nominated star.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: FiorinaFury161 on Jul 28, 2016, 02:18:32 AM
Quote from: Vermillion on Jul 27, 2016, 11:36:03 PM
Egg morphing is just lame!!!!!
Quite the contrary. I would be fascinated to see it unfold, as I imagine many of us on here would also.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Scorpio on Jul 28, 2016, 02:37:12 AM
It's not actually egg morphing, anyway, aka turning a human (or life form) into an egg.  The human is just food for the egg, like yolk. 
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Perfect-Organism on Jul 28, 2016, 04:07:58 AM
Quote from: Scorpio on Jul 28, 2016, 02:37:12 AM
It's not actually egg morphing, anyway, aka turning a human (or life form) into an egg.  The human is just food for the egg, like yolk.

Hmmm, no, I actually do believe the human turns into an egg...

Speaking of egg-morphing, I suspect that we will see ampules morphing into eggs.  I called it here.  (unless somebody called the obvious before me)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Primordial on Jul 28, 2016, 06:37:09 AM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 27, 2016, 09:15:53 PM
That's kinda similar to what Gibson had in mind at the start of his script, where she deposited some spores inside Bishop that then developed into a full-grown egg.

I wasn't aware of that. It reminds me that I had written (in a poor manner  :D) in this same thread years ago about Bishop's legs getting 'eggmorphed'. I remember having checked out if we saw those legs when Ripley was searching for the android's remains. It seemed feasible. Of course the location of the egg would remain a problem.

Anyway, I think I prefer the 'auto-eggmorphed limb' than the emergency egg layed without the egg sac. This theory includes the formidable ability of the alien regenerating fast.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Scorpio on Jul 28, 2016, 08:39:30 AM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 28, 2016, 04:07:58 AM
Quote from: Scorpio on Jul 28, 2016, 02:37:12 AM
It's not actually egg morphing, anyway, aka turning a human (or life form) into an egg.  The human is just food for the egg, like yolk.

Hmmm, no, I actually do believe the human turns into an egg...



Someone from the production said this, so I believe that was the intention.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Jul 28, 2016, 09:27:32 AM
Quote from: Primordial on Jul 28, 2016, 06:37:09 AMI wasn't aware of that. It reminds me that I had written (in a poor manner  :D) in this same thread years ago about Bishop's legs getting 'eggmorphed'. I remember having checked out if we saw those legs when Ripley was searching for the android's remains.

Technically, Bishop's legs would've gone the way of the Queen... Hard to grab a hold against decompression when you're a pair of severed legs :P

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 28, 2016, 04:07:58 AMHmmm, no, I actually do believe the human turns into an egg...

Pretty sure Ridley's said several times the body is just a food source for the developing egg.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Omegamorph on Jul 28, 2016, 09:39:54 AM
>2016
>Egg on Sulaco discussion still active
>mfw (https://media.giphy.com/media/11aitZSSRhHYuQ/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: windebieste on Jul 28, 2016, 10:08:11 AM
>2016
>Retcon 'ALIEN 3' discussion still active
>mfw(https://media.giphy.com/media/11aitZSSRhHYuQ/giphy.gif)

-Windebieste.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Omegamorph on Jul 28, 2016, 10:55:13 AM
I feel you winde
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: windebieste on Jul 28, 2016, 11:03:35 AM
Just be careful what you touch.  I don't want anything broken!

:D

-Windebieste.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Jul 28, 2016, 08:05:49 PM
Planet of the Apes Meme. 

https://youtu.be/mtCCbu-6crA (https://youtu.be/mtCCbu-6crA)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jul 28, 2016, 08:50:46 PM
Quote from: Primordial on Jul 28, 2016, 06:37:09 AMI wasn't aware of that. It reminds me that I had written (in a poor manner  :D) in this same thread years ago about Bishop's legs getting 'eggmorphed'. I remember having checked out if we saw those legs when Ripley was searching for the android's remains. It seemed feasible. Of course the location of the egg would remain a problem.

My ooze theory explains the location of the egg. (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=9.msg1861003#msg1861003)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Primordial on Jul 28, 2016, 09:49:24 PM
Thanks, I had a re-read of some part of the thread today, you also wrote it on p32-33 and it is the best imo to explain the location :). The Hangar Subflooring rather than the Dropship. My Queen limb theory would more suit the latter.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 28, 2016, 09:27:32 AM
Technically, Bishop's legs would've gone the way of the Queen... Hard to grab a hold against decompression when you're a pair of severed legs :P

Well yeah, it is the most logical explanation ! But it didn't appear on screen, that is why back then I tried to theorize that the Queen not only deposited the material for the egg but also some sticky matter which could possiby explain the egg glued above the floor and that this matter was strong enough to make Bishop's infected legs overcome the decompression.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: FiorinaFury161 on Jul 29, 2016, 12:04:14 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 28, 2016, 08:50:46 PM
Quote from: Primordial on Jul 28, 2016, 06:37:09 AMI wasn't aware of that. It reminds me that I had written (in a poor manner  :D) in this same thread years ago about Bishop's legs getting 'eggmorphed'. I remember having checked out if we saw those legs when Ripley was searching for the android's remains. It seemed feasible. Of course the location of the egg would remain a problem.

My ooze theory explains the location of the egg. (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=9.msg1861003#msg1861003)
Further proof why LocalTrouble is one of AVPG's most intelligent, valued members. :)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jul 29, 2016, 12:09:23 AM
Quote from: FiorinaFury161 on Jul 29, 2016, 12:04:14 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 28, 2016, 08:50:46 PM
Quote from: Primordial on Jul 28, 2016, 06:37:09 AMI wasn't aware of that. It reminds me that I had written (in a poor manner  :D) in this same thread years ago about Bishop's legs getting 'eggmorphed'. I remember having checked out if we saw those legs when Ripley was searching for the android's remains. It seemed feasible. Of course the location of the egg would remain a problem.

My ooze theory explains the location of the egg. (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=9.msg1861003#msg1861003)

Further proof why LocalTrouble is one of AVPG's most intelligent, valued members. :)

That's news to me, but thanks.  :)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: The Eighth Passenger on Jul 29, 2016, 03:45:36 PM
Quote from: FiorinaFury161 on Jul 29, 2016, 12:04:14 AM
Further proof why LocalTrouble is one of AVPG's most intelligent, valued members. :)

You've got him mixed-up with someone else dude. He's just one of the local troublemakers around here.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Scorpio on Jul 29, 2016, 04:57:35 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 28, 2016, 08:50:46 PM
Quote from: Primordial on Jul 28, 2016, 06:37:09 AMI wasn't aware of that. It reminds me that I had written (in a poor manner  :D) in this same thread years ago about Bishop's legs getting 'eggmorphed'. I remember having checked out if we saw those legs when Ripley was searching for the android's remains. It seemed feasible. Of course the location of the egg would remain a problem.

My ooze theory explains the location of the egg. (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=9.msg1861003#msg1861003)

My favourite theory so far.  And fits with the black goo in Prometheus.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jul 29, 2016, 08:33:44 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jul 29, 2016, 03:45:36 PM
Quote from: FiorinaFury161 on Jul 29, 2016, 12:04:14 AM
Further proof why LocalTrouble is one of AVPG's most intelligent, valued members. :)

You've got him mixed-up with someone else dude. He's just one of the local troublemakers around here.

Speaking of SM, now that his posts are few and far between they seem even more profound than ever.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: 426Buddy on Jul 29, 2016, 08:38:52 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 29, 2016, 08:33:44 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jul 29, 2016, 03:45:36 PM
Quote from: FiorinaFury161 on Jul 29, 2016, 12:04:14 AM
Further proof why LocalTrouble is one of AVPG's most intelligent, valued members. :)

You've got him mixed-up with someone else dude. He's just one of the local troublemakers around here.

Speaking of SM, now that his posts are few and far between they seem even more profound than ever.

I find your deification of SM most disturbing :P
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jul 29, 2016, 09:04:16 PM
Quote from: 426Buddy on Jul 29, 2016, 08:38:52 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 29, 2016, 08:33:44 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jul 29, 2016, 03:45:36 PM
Quote from: FiorinaFury161 on Jul 29, 2016, 12:04:14 AM
Further proof why LocalTrouble is one of AVPG's most intelligent, valued members. :)

You've got him mixed-up with someone else dude. He's just one of the local troublemakers around here.

Speaking of SM, now that his posts are few and far between they seem even more profound than ever.

I find your deification of SM most disturbing :P

I hope, one day, you have your road to Damascus moment.

Quote from: Scorpio on Jul 29, 2016, 04:57:35 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 28, 2016, 08:50:46 PM
Quote from: Primordial on Jul 28, 2016, 06:37:09 AMI wasn't aware of that. It reminds me that I had written (in a poor manner  :D) in this same thread years ago about Bishop's legs getting 'eggmorphed'. I remember having checked out if we saw those legs when Ripley was searching for the android's remains. It seemed feasible. Of course the location of the egg would remain a problem.

My ooze theory explains the location of the egg. (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=9.msg1861003#msg1861003)

My favourite theory so far.  And fits with the black goo in Prometheus.

The idea is that the queen was leaking globules of proto-eggs from where she tore off her egg sac.  One of them oozed out onto the floor of the hangar bay, but it was tiny and camouflaged by viscous slime so even if Ripley had seen it, she wouldn't have guessed that it would have grown into an egg.

We can optionally speculate that it absorbed Bishop's legs to achieve sufficient mass, but I don't think it's necessary.  Since they don't appear to eat their hosts, I've long believed that the aliens are capable of nourishing themselves with inorganic material. That being the case, it's possible that the egg was able to grow directly out of the floor.

Being a silicon-based biomechanoid has its advantages.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Perfect-Organism on Jul 29, 2016, 10:45:34 PM
If that's the case, why would the queen need to grow an egg sac at  all?  It seems inefficient.  Why not just sprinkle a few globules here and there and be done with it?

But the notion that the aliens don't seem to eat people seems to be largely true.  They must eat something though.  Otherwise why have a mouth, with such teeth?  Perhaps the evolutionary rationale does not apply if they were designed to be weapons...

There is no explanation that works 100% perfectly.  Alien 3 is an amazing film that works best when you just suspend disbelief.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Jul 29, 2016, 10:56:50 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 29, 2016, 10:45:34 PMIf that's the case, why would the queen need to grow an egg sac at  all?  It seems inefficient.  Why not just sprinkle a few globules here and there and be done with it?

Quote from: Local Trouble on Jun 22, 2016, 03:02:44 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on May 09, 2014, 01:14:46 AM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on May 09, 2014, 12:48:29 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on May 08, 2014, 06:30:23 PM
No, the one about the queen oozing out a glob of goo that congealed in the subflooring of the hangar bay and then grew into the egg we saw.

Again, if she can do that, why does she naturally grow an egg sack? There'd be no point in it even existing.

Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 12, 2012, 04:41:51 AM
Well, the egg sac would allow for the rapid production of fully functional eggs.  This method would be much slower.  Theoretically, a soldier alien could produce eggs the same way.

Quote from: Kimarhi on May 09, 2014, 12:54:30 AM
unless it lets her rapidly produce eggs whereas not having one wouldn't.

:D

:D

:laugh:
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Scorpio on Aug 01, 2016, 03:27:08 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 29, 2016, 10:45:34 PM
If that's the case, why would the queen need to grow an egg sac at  all?  It seems inefficient.  Why not just sprinkle a few globules here and there and be done with it?


We already know that a regular drone alien can make eggs without a queen but it needs hosts for the egg.  The Queen maybe can just produce eggs more efficiently, but needs to build a giant ovipositor rendering it immobile and otherwise useless.  I don't think it's an egg sac, though, as an egg sac is basically used to hold dozens of eggs (like a spider does) and protect them from damage.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Perfect-Organism on Aug 02, 2016, 01:47:36 PM
Quote from: Scorpio on Aug 01, 2016, 03:27:08 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 29, 2016, 10:45:34 PM
If that's the case, why would the queen need to grow an egg sac at  all?  It seems inefficient.  Why not just sprinkle a few globules here and there and be done with it?


We already know that a regular drone alien can make eggs without a queen but it needs hosts for the egg.  The Queen maybe can just produce eggs more efficiently, but needs to build a giant ovipositor rendering it immobile and otherwise useless.  I don't think it's an egg sac, though, as an egg sac is basically used to hold dozens of eggs (like a spider does) and protect them from damage.

Do we really know that?  I thought the original Alien film was the official one, not the one with egg-morphing..
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Aug 02, 2016, 07:37:05 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 02, 2016, 01:47:36 PM
Quote from: Scorpio on Aug 01, 2016, 03:27:08 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 29, 2016, 10:45:34 PM
If that's the case, why would the queen need to grow an egg sac at  all?  It seems inefficient.  Why not just sprinkle a few globules here and there and be done with it?


We already know that a regular drone alien can make eggs without a queen but it needs hosts for the egg.  The Queen maybe can just produce eggs more efficiently, but needs to build a giant ovipositor rendering it immobile and otherwise useless.  I don't think it's an egg sac, though, as an egg sac is basically used to hold dozens of eggs (like a spider does) and protect them from damage.

Do we really know that?  I thought the original Alien film was the official one, not the one with egg-morphing..

It's a theory based on established concepts.  My ooze theory is no better.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Inverse Effect on Aug 17, 2016, 12:47:29 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 02, 2016, 01:47:36 PM
Quote from: Scorpio on Aug 01, 2016, 03:27:08 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 29, 2016, 10:45:34 PM
If that's the case, why would the queen need to grow an egg sac at  all?  It seems inefficient.  Why not just sprinkle a few globules here and there and be done with it?


We already know that a regular drone alien can make eggs without a queen but it needs hosts for the egg.  The Queen maybe can just produce eggs more efficiently, but needs to build a giant ovipositor rendering it immobile and otherwise useless.  I don't think it's an egg sac, though, as an egg sac is basically used to hold dozens of eggs (like a spider does) and protect them from damage.

Do we really know that?  I thought the original Alien film was the official one, not the one with egg-morphing..

Well the Egg on the Sulaco was on both Versions of Alien 3. And i'm sure the Assembly cut was one of the earlier cuts made before the Theatrical cut. (Hense i consider the Assembly cut to be the films canon version) Now Considering the Queen Facehugger and the Egg on the Sulaco. Maybe The Queen can Secrete material needed for a bare minimum of 1 egg?

And i also include the Directors cut of alien wit the Egg Morphing to be the canonical version so i have to take that into account with my theory. But The Queen didn't kill anybody to make an egg up? Unless there was a Drone on board the Sulaco?

Or maybe we're just looking at it wrong.. The Scuttling sound at the end of Aliens, right after they have gone into Cryo-sleep post credit. Which means there's already something moving around on the ship (Which is a scary idea lol) which is Probably a Facehugger? So again let's just forget about the Egg being there which is a plot-hole in itself. And go with another theory.

So lets go with another theory.. Lets just throw the egg out completely. And assume there isn't an egg (A mistake on the film makers part) And there's only the Queen Facehugger? (Hense the Scuttling)  which got dropped off by the Queen herself at some point and waited in hiding until the moment to Face hug? That makes more sense.

To be honest, Regarding the Egg in the opening on Alien 3. They f**ked up simple as. It's a Glaring plot-hole one which has no explanation at all. The Alien Life-cycle up to that point doesn't Explain the egg being there. There's no realistic Time-slot or placement for it. None of the Crew could have placed it, neither could an Alien. IT was just there for the sake of being there.

Literally the only explanation for it is that the Queen Carried it with her on her back or something and then placed it down while she was hiding.



We just need to take the Egg out of the Equation here and things start to make more sense.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Perfect-Organism on Aug 17, 2016, 01:50:15 PM
But it's impossible to take the egg out of the equation because it is in the film, mistake or not.

It is also important to remember that there are 2 aliens in alien 3; the acid-spitter dog-alien, and also the queen inside Ripley.  So either there were 2 eggs, or an egg along with a live facehugger that made the skittering sound at the end of the film, or the queen egg is capable of laying 2 facehuggers.

Regardless, there are only 2 possibilities for an egg getting on the Sulaco.  Either the Queen brought in on board, or Bishop.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Aug 17, 2016, 02:28:17 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 17, 2016, 01:50:15 PMRegardless, there are only 2 possibilities for an egg getting on the Sulaco.  Either the Queen brought in on board, or Bishop.

One way or another, the queen brought it on board.  Bishop isn't even an option.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Inverse Effect on Aug 17, 2016, 09:29:27 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 17, 2016, 01:50:15 PM
But it's impossible to take the egg out of the equation because it is in the film, mistake or not.

It is also important to remember that there are 2 aliens in alien 3; the acid-spitter dog-alien, and also the queen inside Ripley.  So either there were 2 eggs, or an egg along with a live facehugger that made the skittering sound at the end of the film, or the queen egg is capable of laying 2 facehuggers.

Regardless, there are only 2 possibilities for an egg getting on the Sulaco.  Either the Queen brought in on board, or Bishop.

Pretty sure there's only one face-hugger in Alien 3. Which is the Queen Face-hugger which is capable of planting 2 embryos. Bishop bringing back an Egg by somehow getting to the nest before Ripley is unrealistic and unlikely considering his character, and besides if he brought back the egg he could have saved newt before Ripley. And Bishop directly said he can't directly harm or do actions that would cause harm to humans. Bringing back an Egg to harm the crew would negate his entire Behavior chip Androids now have.

The egg on the Sulaco is just a un-explained Plot-hole leftover from a movie that was in development hell,so because of that, The egg can never be truely explained, simply because there isn't a logical reason for it being there. And it's why nobody can come up with a definitive or logical reason.

That's why i said in order to explain how the facehuggers got onto the Sulaco realistically we need to remove the Egg out of the equation completely and start looking at it from a different perspective.  There's nothing to say 2 Face-huggers could have stalked Ripley from the Hive at some point. and sneaked onto the Drop-ship and simply waited for the perfect time to begin what they do best.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Aug 18, 2016, 12:45:44 AM
All Bishops in the series are androids. 
They all lie.
He brought it on board
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Perfect-Organism on Aug 18, 2016, 12:54:26 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 17, 2016, 02:28:17 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 17, 2016, 01:50:15 PMRegardless, there are only 2 possibilities for an egg getting on the Sulaco.  Either the Queen brought in on board, or Bishop.

One way or another, the queen brought it on board.  Bishop isn't even an option.

I don't see why it isn't an option.  He spent a lot of alone time crawling through the duct system and then out walking to the uplink tower.  He could have taken a quick detour to pick up an egg.  Secondly, he was hanging out by himself in a dropship at the end after he conveniently sedated Hicks.  He could have stepped out to pick up some groceries.  Platform was becoming too unstable my ass...

Bishop received conflicting instructions.  That is a fact.  He was told to secure the eggs by Burke, and he was told to destroy them by Ripley.  Whose instructions to follow?  Also, Bishop seems to operate on the 3 principles of robotics as follows:

A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm. A robot must obey orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law

We all know how well that turned out in I Robot.  What if Bishop thought that by securing the eggs, he was assuring the safety of the human race by allowing humans to study the aliens?  Probable.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Aug 18, 2016, 01:04:22 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 19, 2016, 01:05:11 AM
Yeah, it's a dumb theory that only nitwits believe since Bishop never had a plausible opportunity to go off searching for eggs.

:laugh:
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Aug 18, 2016, 02:35:35 AM
He descended the drop ship and picked a few fresh ones. 
Then came back up just in time to snag Ripley and Newt on the ledge.

Pretty obvious.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Aug 18, 2016, 03:01:58 AM
Quote from: Vermillion on Aug 18, 2016, 02:35:35 AM
He descended the drop ship and picked a few fresh ones. 
Then came back up just in time to snag Ripley and Newt on the ledge.

Pretty obvious.

You're one in Vermillion and don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: FiorinaFury161 on Aug 18, 2016, 03:06:59 AM
:laugh:
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Perfect-Organism on Aug 18, 2016, 05:29:54 AM
Bishop actually brought 3 eggs on board the dropship just after he finished crawling through the tubes, but he then made an omelette while hovering and waiting for Ripley and Newt, so that is why there were only 2 eggs on the Sulaco..   :D
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Inverse Effect on Aug 18, 2016, 06:25:07 AM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 18, 2016, 05:29:54 AM
Bishop actually brought 3 eggs on board the dropship just after he finished crawling through the tubes, but he then made an omelette while hovering and waiting for Ripley and Newt, so that is why there were only 2 eggs on the Sulaco..   :D

Best post here..
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Kelgaard on Aug 18, 2016, 11:14:51 PM
"Bishop got the egg" is the new "Bishop II was an android"
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Aug 18, 2016, 11:46:01 PM
All bishops are droids. 

He got the egg.

On company orders.

Mr Burke was quite specific.

Like tesla auto pilot cars. Humans are cargo.  They're expendable. 
Long live the Company!
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: FiorinaFury161 on Aug 19, 2016, 01:32:12 AM
(https://chivethebrigade.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/hudson-500-9.jpg?quality=94&strip=info&w=500)

"I say we grease this rat-f**k son of a Vermillion right now."
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Kelgaard on Aug 19, 2016, 01:39:34 AM

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Falicia-logic.com%2Fcapsimages%2Fa_107MichaelBiehn.jpg&hash=781b686fc97929efba3db658e2bc36ce0f9f50cc)

"This theory doesn't make any god damned sense..."
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: FiorinaFury161 on Aug 19, 2016, 01:48:16 AM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fprofile_images%2F485794506197835776%2FyoirDZd4.jpeg&hash=a4ab2c126f154a46c3e74bf6af1986a1556e43a3)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Nostromo on Aug 19, 2016, 02:02:28 AM
A gift for Fiorina :laugh:

(https://i.imgflip.com/195pps.jpg)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: FiorinaFury161 on Aug 19, 2016, 02:05:33 AM
Quote from: Nostromo on Aug 19, 2016, 02:02:28 AM
A gift for Fiorina :laugh:

https://i.imgflip.com/195pps.jpg
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-2N3N2QRcNG8%2FT5tVaHNpgOI%2FAAAAAAAADGU%2F1WvLvfta7iU%2Fs1600%2FAliens-Newt-gives-thumbs-up.png&hash=efcbd0b551f03b5fdd9e2ffee694104ffbe7c930)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Nostromo on Aug 19, 2016, 02:08:56 AM
(https://i.imgflip.com/195q3f.jpg)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Inverse Effect on Aug 19, 2016, 02:10:13 AM
Hhahahaha
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Nostromo on Aug 19, 2016, 02:13:19 AM
Quote from: FiorinaFury161 on Aug 19, 2016, 02:05:33 AM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2N3N2QRcNG8/T5tVaHNpgOI/AAAAAAAADGU/1WvLvfta7iU/s1600/Aliens-Newt-gives-thumbs-up.png
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theworkprint.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F08%2Fhudsonaliens.jpg&hash=362c419f519d92fa32c9c4da6ab4aba0f21c4bee)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: FiorinaFury161 on Aug 19, 2016, 02:18:52 AM
Quote from: Nostromo on Aug 19, 2016, 02:08:56 AM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgflip.com%2F195q3f.jpg&hash=612954fa8360cd7aa3931729e41acd150496f9bd)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.writeups.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2FEllen-Ripley-Alien-movies-Sigourney-Weaver-f.jpg&hash=ef3700f1dfa6c44e3e1682df7349ed270de3e344)
No more bullshit!

Have to admit, I'd rather do this than discuss lunacy theories about the mystery egg and Bishop. ;D
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Inverse Effect on Aug 19, 2016, 02:20:14 AM
Quote from: Nostromo on Aug 19, 2016, 02:13:19 AM
Quote from: FiorinaFury161 on Aug 19, 2016, 02:05:33 AM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2N3N2QRcNG8/T5tVaHNpgOI/AAAAAAAADGU/1WvLvfta7iU/s1600/Aliens-Newt-gives-thumbs-up.png
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theworkprint.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F08%2Fhudsonaliens.jpg&hash=362c419f519d92fa32c9c4da6ab4aba0f21c4bee)

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2Fcc857fed8548aa639999cfceb0b85271%2Ftumblr_n3wdg3VF2W1s2wio8o8_500.gif&hash=61b2543d6f0384c7e5039374e9d826ddd8bee7b3)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Aug 20, 2016, 11:17:02 AM
Quote from: FiorinaFury161 on Aug 19, 2016, 01:48:16 AM
http://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/485794506197835776/yoirDZd4.jpeg

(https://i.imgur.com/L4dt0Du.png)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Aug 20, 2016, 12:23:11 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20160820%2F96e6ac43038988606563083bbd4094b7.jpg&hash=dedfa2651ac31a20297677ddee6ea5f022d458af)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Aug 20, 2016, 12:24:53 PM
You slack jawed Blind mofos just like to believe what you don't understand.

-Harry Houdini
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Nostromo on Aug 20, 2016, 12:57:12 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmitteleuropa.x10.mx%2Ffiles%2Ffilm%2Fpredator_frame_blue_ray__00_08_41__AA_01_01a.jpg&hash=281d3dcd5629d51842099afd391dc8dce65c1c43)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Kelgaard on Aug 20, 2016, 01:09:11 PM
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRJ7gcwo5EmjZ4NmbwaeKKp8NQrwZj8vf-vSlXsjdDmCgiGa9GA)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Nostromo on Aug 20, 2016, 01:10:17 PM
(https://s4.postimg.io/vy0m7jn59/19899j_1.jpg)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Inverse Effect on Aug 20, 2016, 05:19:06 PM
Would an Android even disturb the Facehugger inside the Egg?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Aug 20, 2016, 10:06:18 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20160820%2F24850d75813600464d121536c11dd1f2.jpg&hash=95c1a12101cbe452f49f1f565eacfcbd46b5aac9)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Nostromo on Aug 21, 2016, 01:08:02 AM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.memecdn.com%2Fclarence-they-don-amp-039-t-know-what-they-amp-039-re-doing_c_2251977.webp&hash=75333d206b6a4a617e764c12d3d7549a1a71725a)

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FjtnMR81.png&hash=3ee57b45bdced2419cdddf6fe2a27aef514ac278)


Quote from: Guts on Aug 20, 2016, 05:19:06 PM
Would an Android even disturb the Facehugger inside the Egg?

I say probably no, must be  a non synthetic host.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Falienstimeline.ucoz.com%2FRuss2.jpg&hash=49173b8d4220e0fc241fc3ac07d96dad2115f0f3)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: whiterabbit on Aug 21, 2016, 02:46:39 AM
Wait, we're still doing this? Here are the facts people.

In Prometheus, when David opens the door to the giant head room supposedly the atmosphere was affected which caused everything to disintegrate after a few minutes delay. Yet David opens the door to the Juggernaut, pokes around and nothing happens. He then brings the humans with him and the jars are still perfectly fine. They don't stay long enough to witness the jars disintegrate from their Human presence. Henceforth the aliens probably don't care about androids. So Bishop obviously got the egg while the atmospheric process complex was collapsing and made it back just in time to rescue Rips and Newt. It's also the real reason Hicks was sedated. A change in orders. You know, I bet Bishop crashed the ship on fury 161 to cover up his experimental murders of Hicks and Newt. He's one sick robo-puppy.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Aug 23, 2016, 08:13:20 AM
:laugh:

This thread has deteriorated in the best possible way in my absence.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Aug 23, 2016, 08:16:04 AM
Quote from: Nostromo on Aug 21, 2016, 01:08:02 AM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Falienstimeline.ucoz.com%2FRuss2.jpg&hash=49173b8d4220e0fc241fc3ac07d96dad2115f0f3)

What's this one from?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Aug 23, 2016, 08:26:05 AM
It's Russ Jorden encountering the eggs on the Derelict from Aliens Book One.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Aug 23, 2016, 08:49:55 AM
Hadn't realised they did a coloured version of the unedited Book One. Thanks.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: FiorinaFury161 on Aug 24, 2016, 03:37:29 AM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 23, 2016, 08:13:20 AM
:laugh:

This thread has deteriorated in the best possible way in my absence.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.kym-cdn.com%2Fentries%2Ficons%2Foriginal%2F000%2F012%2F982%2Fpost-19715-Brent-Rambo-gif-thumbs-up-imgu-L3yP.gif&hash=ef11b9e9992031f22e7805ab640a3df252c0d11c)

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.smosh.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2Flarge%2Fpublic%2Fftpuploads%2Fbloguploads%2Fthumbs-up-rambo-th_2.jpg%3Fitok%3DQ_copH1M&hash=edf46e58712abe5d6245cb1b22312f86c1a04f67)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Perfect-Organism on Aug 24, 2016, 03:49:18 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 23, 2016, 08:49:55 AM
Hadn't realised they did a coloured version of the unedited Book One. Thanks.

They didn't.  Afaik.  And I would have caught that.  The coloured version made reference to Anne Jorden.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Nostromo on Aug 24, 2016, 03:50:20 AM
Quote from: FiorinaFury161 on Aug 24, 2016, 03:37:29 AM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 23, 2016, 08:13:20 AM
:laugh:

This thread has deteriorated in the best possible way in my absence.
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/012/982/post-19715-Brent-Rambo-gif-thumbs-up-imgu-L3yP.gif

http://cdn.smosh.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/ftpuploads/bloguploads/thumbs-up-rambo-th_2.jpg?itok=Q_copH1M

(https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/20356608.jpg)


Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Kurai on Aug 24, 2016, 05:06:52 AM
Spoiler
Quote"The alien's abdomen had burst open, spilling a slick mess across the floor. It sizzled and spat as the acid-pool spread, but it was the things lying in the pool that drew Ripley's attention. Scores of them—maybe hundreds— spherical and each roughly the size of her thumb. They glimmered moistly beneath the flashlight beam, sliding over one another as more poured from the wound.
"I think we killed a queen," Ripley said.
"You're sure?" Hoop asked from behind her.
"Pretty sure—it's the only thing that makes sense. They're eggs. Hundreds of eggs." She looked back at him. "We nailed a f**king queen."

That happens in Out of the Shadows, maybe the Queen on the Sulaco was still pooping out eggs at the time and a few of them managed to grow up?
[close]

The Bishop theory makes retroactive sense, but I'm 90% sure that him not being on the platform with the drop ship was simply to give pay off for Ripley's "I CAN trust THIS android I guess" after a brief moment of doubt and was not intentional for anything nefarious in future movies.

Everything just ends up fan theory sounding, no matter what you do. The likeliest option is the Queen brought it up... That's another question to be answered, how and when did the Queen get on board the Sulaco in the first place? How and when did the Big Chap get on-board the Narcissus? Why didn't the Predators do a friggin X-Ray on Scar after his body was retrieved from an expedition to hunt creatures known to implant embryos inside of things?

Magical, magical plot convenience!
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Aug 24, 2016, 12:10:01 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reactiongifs.com%2Fwp-content%2Fgallery%2Fwtf%2Fwtf%2520%25282%2529.gif&hash=e072e9b04eef114d0b91d1e3bfbebc97d1c85e60)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Aug 24, 2016, 12:38:18 PM
Quote from: Kurai on Aug 24, 2016, 05:06:52 AM
Spoiler
Quote"The alien's abdomen had burst open, spilling a slick mess across the floor. It sizzled and spat as the acid-pool spread, but it was the things lying in the pool that drew Ripley's attention. Scores of them—maybe hundreds— spherical and each roughly the size of her thumb. They glimmered moistly beneath the flashlight beam, sliding over one another as more poured from the wound.
"I think we killed a queen," Ripley said.
"You're sure?" Hoop asked from behind her.
"Pretty sure—it's the only thing that makes sense. They're eggs. Hundreds of eggs." She looked back at him. "We nailed a f**king queen."

That happens in Out of the Shadows, maybe the Queen on the Sulaco was still pooping out eggs at the time and a few of them managed to grow up?
[close]

Vindication!
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Aug 24, 2016, 12:46:38 PM
Hardly. The Queen in the book is just a juvenile. The implication I got it she's started developing some eggs buy hasn't developed a means to actually lay them yet.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Aug 24, 2016, 12:49:04 PM
Bah!  All I need to know is that if you tear open a hole in the queen's abdomen, little proto-eggs can fall out.  It's enough for me.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Kurai on Aug 24, 2016, 01:08:42 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 24, 2016, 12:46:38 PM
Hardly. The Queen in the book is just a juvenile. The implication I got it she's started developing some eggs buy hasn't developed a means to actually lay them yet.

The man speaks truth:

Spoiler
QuoteThough bigger than any they had so far seen, something about it was also almost childlike—its features were larger, the spiked and clawed limbs not quite so vicious. Ripley felt a strange frisson, a sense of likeness. But she was nothing like this thing.
Nothing at all.
"I think she's young," she said. "Imagine just how big...?" She shook her head. "We need to go."
[close]

That said, I do believe a mature queen would still be processing proto-eggs inside of her. I don't think that was the origin of the egg on the Sulaco, but the precedence for possible eggs is there, there is no evidence so far that the proto-eggs can grow outside of the Queen into a viable state.

Another option is that a drone got on board as well, they weren't all dead at this point and I doubt they'd leave the Queen to board a strange vessel alone. That said, there is no evidence of this drone so who can say? Has anyone here played Colonial Marines? Were there Aliens of anomalous origins on board the Sulaco in that?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Aug 24, 2016, 01:31:49 PM
Quote from: Kurai on Aug 24, 2016, 01:08:42 PMThat said, I do believe a mature queen would still be processing proto-eggs inside of her. I don't think that was the origin of the egg on the Sulaco, but the precedence for possible eggs is there, there is no evidence so far that the proto-eggs can grow outside of the Queen into a viable state.

The earliest scripts for Alien 3 bandied about ever nuttier origins for the egg, so I don't see the problem with a leaked proto-egg growing into the one we saw.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Aug 24, 2016, 04:24:00 PM
Still wouldn't explain how it manged to crawl up onto the ceiling and stick itself there.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Perfect-Organism on Aug 24, 2016, 04:37:20 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 24, 2016, 04:24:00 PM
Still wouldn't explain how it manged to crawl up onto the ceiling and stick itself there.

The queen was really scrunched up in there in the landing gear.  Maybe her deriere was up in the ceiling?

I don't recall now.  Was the egg in the dropship or in the EEV?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Aug 24, 2016, 04:41:40 PM
On the Sulaco, judging by the name embossed on the beam it's attached to.

The idea it could be inside the dropship landing gear, and that Ripley wouldn't have a good look around in there before going to bed, is kinda asinine. The Queen dropped out of there. She'd check.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Aug 24, 2016, 04:55:07 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 24, 2016, 04:24:00 PM
Still wouldn't explain how it manged to crawl up onto the ceiling and stick itself there.

One man's ceiling is another man's floor.  Pretty sure the hangar bay had a subflooring.

Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 20, 2014, 12:12:44 AM
My personal spin on the Gibson origin, which appears to be the script that pre-dated them all, is that this genetic material oozed into the subflooring of the Sulaco's landing bay where it congealed, then grew slowly out of the floor itself and into the strange position where we saw it after it hatched.

How many times do I have to quote myself?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Aug 24, 2016, 06:41:07 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 24, 2016, 04:55:07 PMHow many times do I have to quote myself?

As much as you like, it doesn't mean I have to agree with your ideas.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Perfect-Organism on Aug 24, 2016, 07:13:03 PM
Nobody has to agree with anybody's ideas.  The truth is, nobody knows how the egg got there other than the people who put it there in the film.  It's largely immaterial to the film anyway.  It's just a friendly discussion.   ::)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Aug 24, 2016, 07:20:12 PM
Just pointing out his repeated quotations don't solve the issue.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Aug 24, 2016, 07:36:17 PM
You seem pretty insistent that the egg was stuck to the ceiling and don't even seem open to the possibility that it was elsewhere.  That's not disagreement, it's just obstinance.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Aug 24, 2016, 11:29:53 PM
The Rex Pickett draft of Alien3 produced a few weeks prior to principal photography says Ripley's bioscan showed "thousands upon thousands of MICROSCOPIC eggs".  She later relayed this to Dillon.  Taking that into account she's born with every egg she ever going to lay and saying she can't produce them anymore because she loses her eggsac isn't accurate.

She may have simply laid a small one, that lacking the eggsac it couldn't grow to full size.  Or maybe it could, but took much longer - hence the time difference between Aliens and Alien3.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Aug 25, 2016, 12:01:54 AM
Also noteworthy from that script (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/files/scripts/alien-3-rex-pickett-1991-01-05.pdf) is scene 13:

QuoteEXT. DEEP SPACE

Movement through the void.
Turning, as though altering course.

That's before the fire started.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: windebieste on Aug 25, 2016, 12:22:03 AM
I hadn't heard about Ripley being host to thousands of micro eggs before, but hey, why not. 

Aphids have an amazing reproduction system.  A female aphid is born pregnant.  Factually, a female aphid can be born with the next generation inside and that may also already be pregnant.  Aphids can be born and have multiple generations inside them.  Weird, huh.  Add that fact to Alien life cycle and see where it takes you.

As far as removing the Queen's egg sack and ovipositor goes, we have a very real 'parallel' to that process as well.  Women do not stop ovulating when their uterus is removed via hystorectomy.  Their menstrual cycle will cease, but the ovaries still function with the gamete (egg) still forming once a month.

So maybe the Queen can still make 'eggs' without the need for an egg sack.  I'd say it's highly likely - and a worthy possibility to consider if you genuinely want to explain how the egg gets aboard the Sulaco.  After all, the Queen is on board.  It is 'alien' by all counts and anything is possible.  The fact that an established egg laying organism of unknown biological definition is present means it's certainly not out of the question.

It's entirely possible that the Queen may be able to generate proto-facehuggers within its body and the egg is formed around them in the eggsack.  If the sack is not present, it may be of worthy consideration to entertain the notion  that the Queen may drop as yet unformed larvae, say, what amounts to a legless facehugger and consists of just the tail and and the bare basics it needs to survive and a rudimentary mobility.   It might find a location and build its own safe incubation chamber - an  Alien egg - from here the egg fully forms from the nutrients draws from it's immediate environment. 

After all, the egg and facehugger stages of the Alien is one area of its life cycle that has not been fully explored onscreen and may yet potentially answer this question of the egg aboard the Sulaco.

It's not that hard to speculate when so much of the Alien's life cycle has been so malleable to date.  Only those fans adamant that the 3rd movie should be ignored are the ones not genuinely wanting an answer will do what they can to disavow any. 

-Windebieste.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Aug 25, 2016, 12:33:24 AM
ProtoSack?!.   Haha!!!!

Lol



(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20160825%2Fe6c6c7c3ae8b667829b5905b3feb8841.jpg&hash=d5c95b6f340850b4674e63c7301774550a677d41)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: windebieste on Aug 25, 2016, 12:53:14 AM
^ Case in point.

-Windebieste.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Aug 25, 2016, 01:02:46 AM
Quote from: windebieste on Aug 25, 2016, 12:22:03 AM
I hadn't heard about Ripley being host to thousands of micro eggs before, but hey, why not. 

More accurately, the neuroscanner zooms into Ripley's embryonic queen to show us the microscopic proto-eggs inside of her.  Obviously, the final product didn't show that to us though.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Perfect-Organism on Aug 25, 2016, 01:28:02 AM
Quote from: windebieste on Aug 25, 2016, 12:22:03 AM
I hadn't heard about Ripley being host to thousands of micro eggs before, but hey, why not. 

Aphids have an amazing reproduction system.  A female aphid is born pregnant.  Factually, a female aphid can be born with the next generation inside and that may also already be pregnant.  Aphids can be born and have multiple generations inside them.  Weird, huh.  Add that fact to Alien life cycle and see where it takes you.

As far as removing the Queen's egg sack and ovipositor goes, we have a very real 'parallel' to that process as well.  Women do not stop ovulating when their uterus is removed via hystorectomy.  Their menstrual cycle will cease, but the ovaries still function with the gamete (egg) still forming once a month.

So maybe the Queen can still make 'eggs' without the need for an egg sack.  I'd say it's highly likely - and a worthy possibility to consider if you genuinely want to explain how the egg gets aboard the Sulaco.  After all, the Queen is on board.  It is 'alien' by all counts and anything is possible.  The fact that an established egg laying organism of unknown biological definition is present means it's certainly not out of the question.

It's entirely possible that the Queen may be able to generate proto-facehuggers within its body and the egg is formed around them in the eggsack.  If the sack is not present, it may be of worthy consideration to entertain the notion  that the Queen may drop as yet unformed larvae, say, what amounts to a legless facehugger and consists of just the tail and and the bare basics it needs to survive and a rudimentary mobility.   It might find a location and build its own safe incubation chamber - an  Alien egg - from here the egg fully forms from the nutrients draws from it's immediate environment. 

After all, the egg and facehugger stages of the Alien is one area of its life cycle that has not been fully explored onscreen and may yet potentially answer this question of the egg aboard the Sulaco.

It's not that hard to speculate when so much of the Alien's life cycle has been so malleable to date.  Only those fans adamant that the 3rd movie should be ignored are the ones not genuinely wanting an answer will do what they can to disavow any. 

-Windebieste.

Um, Windebieste, you are not implying that women produce new eggs each month are you?  As in completely fresh ones?  If I recall correctly, women have a finite number of eggs from when they are born and they carry them around with them for several decades before somebody gets lucky.  Yes there are new studies which suggest women are also capable of producing new eggs, but the general idea is that it isn't a monthly process.  If a woman is menstruating, she basically matures one egg, but does not "form" a new egg each month.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: windebieste on Aug 25, 2016, 02:11:46 AM
My error.  Not a big one; but seeking clarification is always good.  I  meant to say "Their menstrual cycle will cease, but the ovaries still function with the gamete (egg) still released once a month."  By the way, 'menstruation' and 'ovulation' are different.

Either way, I'm saying the initial process still functions despite a major component of the plumbing no longer being present after an hysterectomy and the egg is still released into the system once a month.  This is true for women; and a parallel may be true for Queen Aliens, too.

With this in mind, it's not outside the realm of credibility for the Queen to still be capable of reproduction without the egg sack as the egg itself may form further inside its body and then travel to the eggsack where it then develops further inside this organ to a fully formed egg. 

Speculating here, but in order to completely sterilise the Queen, removing the egg sack may not be enough.  You may need to remove whatever passes as gonads it has inside its body.  And because it's Alien, who knows what it's actually capable of doing? 

But if you genuinely want an explanation of how that egg possibly got aboard the Sulaco, then thee presence of the Queen and further speculation about its biology and reproduction is as good a place to start as any. 

After all, who really does know everything there is to know about the Queen's reproductive system? 

Especially when there's such a abundance of weird sexuality on our own planet.  Male pigs have a corkscrew penis. Tapirs have a penis that is half their body length*.  Male cats have a barbed penis.  Female kangaroos have 3 vaginas.  Just try and imagine the orgy if these 4 animals get together on a Saturday night after too many beers.  After all, they're not all that far removed from us.  They're all mammals.

-Windebieste.

*I mean seriously huge.  So big in fact, I figure female tapirs must be hollow all the way up to the shoulders.  ...and no. I'm not going to post images.   You can google that one for yourself.  I'm sure tapir penis was the inspirational design for 'Prometheus's hammerpede.  lol.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Perfect-Organism on Aug 25, 2016, 02:55:33 AM
Damn!  What will the nice people at Google who spy on my think of me after those searches?  Polar bears actually have a bone in their penis called a baculum that, get this, actually BREAKS during copulation most of the time.  Kangaroos are marsupials but your point is well taken.  I would be shocked to find that the queen's reproductive organ is completely in the egg sac and not inside her.  It would make sense that she carries internal reproductive organs.

The bottom line is that the aliens are capable of whatever the script writer comes up with and Fox approves.  Its that simple.  I am sure we make those folks very happy by continuing this polemic on blogs like this one.  Fox WANTS us to be a crazy-ass fan base.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Aug 25, 2016, 03:06:27 AM
Gotta give props to windebieste for the doing the heavy-lifting in the biology department here.  I never had the energy to get into so much detail, but that's the general idea behind the ooze theory I've been shilling for.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: windebieste on Aug 25, 2016, 03:08:26 AM
If I recall correctly, mammals without a baculum are significantly in the minority.  Of course, that means humans as well.   That 'boner' you got?  Aint nothin' compared to how most male mammals are endowed.  Even viagra for life just doesn't cut it.  lol.

Yes.  It really does come down to how 20th Century Fox perceives what will reward them the most without too much controversy.  I love this 'crazy-ass' fan base.   This is a fantastic Community to be a part of!   Fox should love it, too.  This fan base has everything.  It has so much to offer; and Fox would be wise to appreciate that.   

After all, it's their phallic headed monstrosity that brings all together.  lol.

EDiT:  It's just very general layman's appreciation of biology but I believe it's conceptually reasonable in the context of its use here.

EDiT again:   Marsupials are mammals.  As are monotremes.  You might want to look them up if you're not familiar with their specialised breeding characteristics. 

-Windebieste.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Aug 25, 2016, 03:15:01 AM
Queens are born pregnant and sans eggsac.  Can't imagine they're going to stop 'laying' eggs when they no longer have an eggsac.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Aug 25, 2016, 03:33:03 AM
Quote from: windebieste on Aug 25, 2016, 03:08:26 AMEDiT:  It's just very general layman's appreciation of biology but I believe it's conceptually reasonable in the context of its use here.

That's why I appreciate it.  Too complicated and no one will understand it, but too simplified and no one will believe it. 

It's not as easy line to straddle, but you're doing well so far.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Perfect-Organism on Aug 25, 2016, 04:27:31 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 25, 2016, 03:06:27 AM
Gotta give props to windebieste for the doing the heavy-lifting in the biology department here.  I never had the energy to get into so much detail, but that's the general idea behind the ooze theory I've been shilling for.

To me, I have no problems with one explanation over another really.  It's circumlocutious to the film as a whole.  Alien 3 is a great film for what it is.  It is one of my all-time favorite films.  But the premise of it still doesn't sit well with me, and I would have preferred a much different story to be told instead of Alien 3.  Perhaps I was spoiled by the Verheiden comics which came out shortly after the Aliens film.  They went full-tilt for a grand arc where our heroes go to the Alien home-world.  That was something that pushed my imagination and Alien 3 was a big let-down by comparison.  I know many people will not agree.  That is totally ok.


Quote from: windebieste on Aug 25, 2016, 03:08:26 AM
If I recall correctly, mammals without a baculum are significantly in the minority.  Of course, that means humans as well.   That 'boner' you got?  Aint nothin' compared to how most male mammals are endowed.  Even viagra for life just doesn't cut it.  lol.

Yes.  It really does come down to how 20th Century Fox perceives what will reward them the most without too much controversy.  I love this 'crazy-ass' fan base.   This is a fantastic Community to be a part of!   Fox should love it, too.  This fan base has everything.  It has so much to offer; and Fox would be wise to appreciate that.   

After all, it's their phallic headed monstrosity that brings all together.  lol.

EDiT:  It's just very general layman's appreciation of biology but I believe it's conceptually reasonable in the context of its use here.

EDiT again:   Marsupials are mammals.  As are monotremes.  You might want to look them up if you're not familiar with their specialised breeding characteristics. 

-Windebieste.

Yep.  Confirmed.  Marsupials are mammals.  My bad.   ;)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: windebieste on Aug 25, 2016, 04:49:26 AM
Quote from: SM on Aug 25, 2016, 03:15:01 AM
Queens are born pregnant and sans eggsac.  Can't imagine they're going to stop 'laying' eggs when they no longer have an eggsac.

Sounds more than reasonable to me. 

My best bet is the Queen is still 'ovulating' when it is brought aboard the Sulaco and made one or more, shall we say 'pre-larval', deposits on the Sulaco deck.  ...and if such hypothetical  'embryos' had the capacity for mobility then by the time Ripley has gotten around to 'mopping up the mess' (Let's face it, though, house work would have been a low priority, even after ensuring Newt's safety first) these pre-larval facehuggers would have had a chance to migrate to safer locales on board the ship, find a secure place, settling down and start extracting nutrients directly from their environment, in this case the ship's walls and bulkhead where it came to rest, permanently fixing itself  in place.

While we have seen that the facehugger uses acid for blood, there's no reason to believe why this corrosive bodily fluid can't be used to break down environmental materials such as the metals, plastics and other composites that the Sulaco is constructed from and then absorb the broken down materials as nutrients to create the egg itself.  Eventually a new egg containing a facehugger could develop in this way anywhere aboard the ship.

Anyway, this is my take on how the egg gets on board.  The Queen is much more versatile at reproduction than previously appreciated and the larval stage is mobile from a very early stage in its formation.  The egg sac is needed to protect and nourish the egg so larvae can be laid complete and in safely inside the 'leathery object' but the process isn't entirely necessary - but ensures greater survival rate of the eggs and their contents.  The larva is very vulnerable until it's fully formed facehugger and the egg provides an ideal place for growth.

With this in mind, there's no reason to limit the number of eggs aboard the Sulaco to just one.  There could be 2.  This would dovetail nicely with the pair of Aliens present in 'ALIEN 3'.  ...what if there's more eggs on board, though?  That's where it gets very, very interesting. In which case, returning to the abandoned Sulaco might yield some nasty surprises. 

That's where I'd take 'ALIEN 5'.  I'd have armed mercs of the Patna attempt to board and reclaim the ship - or at least trying to - until one of them gets face ganked.  Then taken back to the WY ship.  Then the fun starts...

APE suited WY personnel with pulse rifles accompanied by prisoner Morse in pitched battles with Xenomorphs aboard the Patna.  Yeah.  Bring it.

-Windebieste.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Perfect-Organism on Aug 25, 2016, 05:02:02 AM
But there is no more Sulaco for anyone to board.   Bringing in Morse means bringing in a character who is now 25 years older.  I thought you wanted all new characters..  :P
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: windebieste on Aug 25, 2016, 05:27:28 AM
For a start, Morse isn't deceased.  By the time 'ALIEN 3' ends, he's the only person to have survived all the encounters with Aliens to date.   Besides, Morse isn't 25 years older - just the actor is.   He's also an interesting character that deserves expanding.

I think stringing the events together in quick succession for a sequel would make for much more immediately rewarding movie than placing the events 25 years later just to accommodate the older actor.  Make 'ALIEN' 5 dovetail right on the closing moments of 'ALIENS'.  Casting a British actor of similar age and mannerisms to what Danny Webb had at the time 'ALIEN 3' was made is the way to go.

Good casting is what's needed to make the character work - not excuses to bring back aging actors to reprise roles of deceased characters they haven't played in decades; and then shoe horn the story around them.  *Insert facepalm here.*  I'm completely against that.  That's just f*cked.  I'd be dead set against bringing back Danny Webb for the role.  His effort was an interpretation of the character but he doesn't have any rights to the character more than any other more appropriate actor - so I'd hire him for coaching the new actor as to how to portray Morse - and that's it. 

To make the story work, you'd hire someone else for the role.  No bringing back deceased characters.  No pandering to actors on the tail ends of their careers who are desperate to get back into the boots that they emptied long ago.  Screw that. 

Story first.  Characters second.  Casting to match.   No retcon needed. 

-Windebieste.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: HuDaFuK on Aug 25, 2016, 10:40:59 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 24, 2016, 07:36:17 PMYou seem pretty insistent that the egg was stuck to the ceiling and don't even seem open to the possibility that it was elsewhere.

When I say ceiling, I'm simply referring to the fact it was clearly stuck upside-down to something above. Ceiling, beam, underfloor, whatever.

And I never said you're idea didn't have merit, or even that it's not a good one. All I said was repeatedly quoting it doesn't make it true.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: windebieste on Aug 25, 2016, 11:28:25 AM
The location of the egg in the ceiling is very easy to explain.  Too easy, actually, and it all comes down to space travel energy usage and conservation.

What's the first thing that happens when one of these spacecraft reaches its destination?  It automatically prepares itself for human occupancy.   Lights come on, monitors blink to life and systems generally fire up.  Up until someone is actually around to use them, all of these systems are in 'sleep' mode simply because there is no use for them to be active during a flight when the entire crew are in hypersleep for months on end.  Leaving all the lights burning and keeping monitors on serves no purpose when there's no one around.   As soon as the crew are awakened, these systems are automatically activated.  It's a sensible way to conserve not only energy, but prevent component failure as well.  It's good engineering when resources can sometimes require calculation to the last watt/pound/whatever.  Bottom line is, space craft can't afford to waste energy.

This would also apply to whatever artificial gravity systems are in use aboard the Nostromo/Sulaco.  There's no point in expending energy on keeping people upright on their feet when they're safely cocooned in a sleeping pod for months on end.  So the artificial gravity systems are also powered down. Let's just give an arbitrary value of power down to be in the range of 85-90% - just enough remains for stationery objects to stay where they are, permit friction to act upon them to keep them in place and allow their inertial frame of reference do the rest of the work - and substantially enough of a reduction to be energy conserving.   Just prior to everyone waking up, the artificial gravity is automatically raised to 100% along with the rest of the ship's systems.   Sounds about right.

The crew then do whatever it is they gotta do and all the systems are active to accommodate their activities, including artificial gravity.  Makes sense.

When the crew go to rest in their hypersleep beds again, everything powers down to conserve energy.  All monitors and lights are dimmed and other systems that no longer needed to be supervised by humans can be set into 'sleep' mode.  This goes for the artificial gravity systems as well - which conceivably could be very energy intensive.  Why have them on full when everyone's asleep?  Power them down and conserve energy. Makes that long sleep easier, too when less gravity is in effect.*

At a reduced gravity, say 15%, the mobile pre-larva is able to move about more freely when everyone is tucked away in beds.  It can attach itself to any surface under reduced gravity conditions.  It makes sense to locate itself as close to the hypersleep pods as possible.  How does it know to do this?  Well, let's just say there's a lot about Alien perception that's always been debatable.  Maybe Aliens are like sharks and can detect bioelectricity?  Who knows?

So anyway, the larva attaches itself to the ceiling because, well, there's simply less gravity and any surface is ideal.  The small organism attaches itself in place, sends out tendrils and starts to form an egg.  The use of its acidic bodily fluid dissolves  components of the ship it is attached to and it grows an outer covering.  Eventually it becomes a fully grown Alien egg, complete with an 8 legged facehugger within.   

Mind you, that 15% gravity is still in effect as the egg grows and as it increases in size, it eventually gets to a point where even that reduced artificial gravity exerts enough force on the mass of the egg, especially as it nears full size.  Eventually that 15% gravity is enough to dislodge the contents and force the egg to open.  The facehugger then quite literally falls out onto the floor without the need for anyone approaching it.

Well, what's it going to do, now?

Go looking for a host, of course.   You know the rest from here.  Especially if the Queen has dropped 2 (or more) proto-facehuggers on the Sulaco deck during its confrontation with Ripley. 

-Windebieste.

*notwithstanding the fact that long periods of low gravity do have adverse affects on human health.  No doubt WY have contractual clauses and disclaimers in place for that.  lol.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Vermillion on Aug 25, 2016, 11:51:07 AM
Quote from: SM on Aug 25, 2016, 03:15:01 AM
Queens are born pregnant and sans eggsac.  Can't imagine they're going to stop 'laying' eggs when they no longer have an eggsac.

So where from on its thin body did this queen, sans egg sack, lay this 2 by 3 foot egg?

Seems all eggs are full sized when layed. Like a chicken. Or an ant. Or bird.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: windebieste on Aug 25, 2016, 12:20:53 PM
Except that Aliens are neither chickens, ants or birds. 

Dinosaur eggs for breakfast:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F66.media.tumblr.com%2Ff24fcde7c02964d807d9edb860c34803%2Ftumblr_n0kb9dcEip1s5ueqso4_400.jpg&hash=dbbf4407401d553781ed6c7d7335f810d29cd810)
100% guaranteed, bona fide dinosaur eggs!  YUMMY!   ;D

-Windebieste.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Kurai on Aug 25, 2016, 02:54:46 PM
Quote from: Vermillion on Aug 25, 2016, 11:51:07 AM
Quote from: SM on Aug 25, 2016, 03:15:01 AM
Queens are born pregnant and sans eggsac.  Can't imagine they're going to stop 'laying' eggs when they no longer have an eggsac.

So where from on its thin body did this queen, sans egg sack, lay this 2 by 3 foot egg?

Seems all eggs are full sized when layed. Like a chicken. Or an ant. Or bird.

According to the novel Out of the Shadows they're around the size of Ripley's thumb whilst inside that slim Queen belleh. :P
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Kelgaard on Aug 25, 2016, 03:17:03 PM
Reminds me of Gibson's script.  Wasn't there a tiny, spore-releasing egg in that script?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Aug 25, 2016, 04:35:19 PM
Quote from: windebieste on Aug 25, 2016, 11:28:25 AM
The location of the egg in the ceiling is very easy to explain.  Too easy, actually, and it all comes down to space travel energy usage and conservation.

...


Quite possibly the simplest and yet best solution.

Quote from: Kelgaard on Aug 25, 2016, 03:17:03 PM
Reminds me of Gibson's script.  Wasn't there a tiny, spore-releasing egg in that script?

We sharen't talk about that first draft. Terrible ideas! I remember thinking the second draft was great though! It got rid of all those silly ideas iirc.

Personally I like the idea of the Queen just being able to squeeze one out before she had her scrap with Ripley.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Perfect-Organism on Aug 25, 2016, 05:18:16 PM
Quote from: windebieste on Aug 25, 2016, 11:28:25 AM
The location of the egg in the ceiling is very easy to explain.  Too easy, actually, and it all comes down to space travel energy usage and conservation.

What's the first thing that happens when one of these spacecraft reaches its destination?  It automatically prepares itself for human occupancy.   Lights come on, monitors blink to life and systems generally fire up.  Up until someone is actually around to use them, all of these systems are in 'sleep' mode simply because there is no use for them to be active during a flight when the entire crew are in hypersleep for months on end.  Leaving all the lights burning and keeping monitors on serves no purpose when there's no one around.   As soon as the crew are awakened, these systems are automatically activated.  It's a sensible way to conserve not only energy, but prevent component failure as well.  It's good engineering when resources can sometimes require calculation to the last watt/pound/whatever.  Bottom line is, space craft can't afford to waste energy.

This would also apply to whatever artificial gravity systems are in use aboard the Nostromo/Sulaco.  There's no point in expending energy on keeping people upright on their feet when they're safely cocooned in a sleeping pod for months on end.  So the artificial gravity systems are also powered down. Let's just give an arbitrary value of power down to be in the range of 85-90% - just enough remains for stationery objects to stay where they are, permit friction to act upon them to keep them in place and allow their inertial frame of reference do the rest of the work - and substantially enough of a reduction to be energy conserving.   Just prior to everyone waking up, the artificial gravity is automatically raised to 100% along with the rest of the ship's systems.   Sounds about right.

The crew then do whatever it is they gotta do and all the systems are active to accommodate their activities, including artificial gravity.  Makes sense.

When the crew go to rest in their hypersleep beds again, everything powers down to conserve energy.  All monitors and lights are dimmed and other systems that no longer needed to be supervised by humans can be set into 'sleep' mode.  This goes for the artificial gravity systems as well - which conceivably could be very energy intensive.  Why have them on full when everyone's asleep?  Power them down and conserve energy. Makes that long sleep easier, too when less gravity is in effect.*

At a reduced gravity, say 15%, the mobile pre-larva is able to move about more freely when everyone is tucked away in beds.  It can attach itself to any surface under reduced gravity conditions.  It makes sense to locate itself as close to the hypersleep pods as possible.  How does it know to do this?  Well, let's just say there's a lot about Alien perception that's always been debatable.  Maybe Aliens are like sharks and can detect bioelectricity?  Who knows?

So anyway, the larva attaches itself to the ceiling because, well, there's simply less gravity and any surface is ideal.  The small organism attaches itself in place, sends out tendrils and starts to form an egg.  The use of its acidic bodily fluid dissolves  components of the ship it is attached to and it grows an outer covering.  Eventually it becomes a fully grown Alien egg, complete with an 8 legged facehugger within.   

Mind you, that 15% gravity is still in effect as the egg grows and as it increases in size, it eventually gets to a point where even that reduced artificial gravity exerts enough force on the mass of the egg, especially as it nears full size.  Eventually that 15% gravity is enough to dislodge the contents and force the egg to open.  The facehugger then quite literally falls out onto the floor without the need for anyone approaching it.

Well, what's it going to do, now?

Go looking for a host, of course.   You know the rest from here.  Especially if the Queen has dropped 2 (or more) proto-facehuggers on the Sulaco deck during its confrontation with Ripley. 

-Windebieste.

*notwithstanding the fact that long periods of low gravity do have adverse affects on human health.  No doubt WY have contractual clauses and disclaimers in place for that.  lol.

Very good point about shutting off the gravity.  Well done sir.  I don't think I've heard that one before.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Aug 25, 2016, 08:17:26 PM
Quote from: windebieste on Aug 25, 2016, 04:49:26 AMWhile we have seen that the facehugger uses acid for blood, there's no reason to believe why this corrosive bodily fluid can't be used to break down environmental materials such as the metals, plastics and other composites that the Sulaco is constructed from and then absorb the broken down materials as nutrients to create the egg itself.  Eventually a new egg containing a facehugger could develop in this way anywhere aboard the ship.

Agreed.  I've been trying to sell that idea for a long time, though.  Hopefully you'll have better luck convincing people.

Quote from: Local Trouble on Oct 04, 2012, 09:09:19 PM
Given how acidic their blood is, I think they can eat and metabolize virtually anything.  Remember, they didn't appear to eat the dead hosts in Aliens.

Quote from: Local Trouble on Jan 06, 2014, 10:38:20 PMI've long believed that their acidic blood also allows them to metabolize virtually any substance, including metal.  It would explain how they manage to grow so big without eating their prey.

Same would go for the eggs.

Quote from: Local Trouble on May 08, 2014, 07:08:38 PMEven if the aliens aren't synthetic, their biology suggests that they can metabolize inorganic materials.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Perfect-Organism on Aug 25, 2016, 09:03:56 PM
All of these explanations are within the realm of possibility and are simply dependent on the writer's choice.  My gripe with the whole thing is that it is a contrivance which led to a story without grandeur.  The end of Aliens suggested that the queen was effectively defeated by Ripley.  To say that an egg was either brought on board by the queen, or somehow she laid a tiny one is realistic without argument, but it is also contrived.  It just doesn't seem like a natural progression to the story.  It seemed like the natural thing to do was to go big and find out where the aliens came from.  That was the approach that Mark Verheiden took with his Aliens comics.  Instead, after the fans were pumped up by the Aliens film and the comics, we went to a story which seems so unimpactful and literally stalls the progression with some of the main characters.  Just take a look at how many pages it is taking for us to come up with an answer to how the egg got on the Sulaco.  It is just such an out-of-left-field direction that was taken, that it literally derailed the progress of the story.

What would be natural, is that these characters might get a few decades of some sort of peace after the events in Aliens.  It would be unnatural that the aliens' homeworld would be found a few weeks after the events of that film.  It would likely take a lot more time before people stumbled onto that planet.  So now we are at that stage where, we could get a proper sequel to Aliens, one which moves in a grand direction instead of the unrewarding one we got in Alien 3.  We could get that with Blomkamp's film.  The key actors are still around, and they are up for it.

This is ridiculous.  It's time to let go of the egg on the Sulaco, because most likely, it was never there and go in a better direction for a sequel to Aliens.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Kelgaard on Aug 25, 2016, 09:21:40 PM
er... I want A5 too, but I don't feel this is the thread to discuss it.  I'd rather not see that debate erupt here.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Aug 25, 2016, 09:32:23 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 25, 2016, 09:03:56 PMTo say that an egg was either brought on board by the queen, or somehow she laid a tiny one is realistic without argument, but it is also contrived.

I suspect that Fox insisted on it.  It just doesn't makes sense that all of the various screenwriters who worked on this film would have chosen the same starting point for their stories if it hadn't been mandated by the people who commissioned their scripts.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Aug 25, 2016, 09:52:35 PM
Re: gravity.  Interesting idea, but are we to assume that an egg can float to get stuck on the ceiling - but nothing else floats while the crew's asleep?  The floor would be littered in perpetual motion executive toys every time they woke.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Aug 25, 2016, 09:54:01 PM
I thought the same thing, but didn't he suggest that the ship would have reduced its gravity versus cutting it off entirely?  Regardless, I think the theory works with or without that idea.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: windebieste on Aug 25, 2016, 09:54:06 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 25, 2016, 04:35:19 PM
Quite possibly the simplest and yet best solution.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 25, 2016, 05:18:16 PM
Very good point about shutting off the gravity.  Well done sir.  I don't think I've heard that one before.


Thank you.  We have 'ALIEN 3' now regardless of the decisions made by  the studio to take the movie in unexpected directions.  Directions that some people find hostile to their sensibilities and difficult to accept.  Then again, if the 3rd film does live up to its title, doesn't it?  Unexpected and hostile; and that is what these movies are about.  So they should be.

If we take the available evidence, Yessir, we can explain the egg's existence.  Accepting that the Queen is still capable of generating a 'spore' of some description and coupling that with powering down of the ships systems, including gravity generation, while the crew are in hypersleep we can come to a very reasonable and practical solution. 

Finally, you could add these events into the narrative of a movie by having someone aboard, say, the Patna have coded remote access the Sulaco's flight records and have a visual via monitors of recorded security feed of Ripley's fight with the Queen, close ups of it dropping spores and those spores moving around the powered down ship and growing into eggs while Ripley and company are asleep. 

Then crew of the Patna would have some understanding of what happened aboard the ship and that information is conveyed to the audience.  They then board the ship and find, surprise!, there's a few more eggs than they anticipated via the security feed.  Only 2 of which have been opened and those are the two we see on Fiorina in 'ALIEN 3'. 

From here it's on with the movie... an 'ALIENS' movie told from the viewpoint of WY mercs.  I'd take it in that direction.  So much to offer right there with all these advantages:  Continuity between 2nd and 3rd movie explained.  New characters.  New story.  More pulse rifles.  More Aliens.  No need for a retcon.  A true 'ALIENS' story spanning across both ships as infected WY mercs are returned to the Patna and containment for the contamination fails. 

Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 25, 2016, 08:17:26 PM
Agreed.  I've been trying to sell that idea for a long time, though.  Hopefully you'll have better luck convincing people.

People like their insect analogies when it comes to just about everything regarding the Alien so here's one that might just suit.   We have hydrochloric acid in our stomachs essential for digestion.  We digest our food internally but insects, houseflies, for example, digest their food externally.  Houseflies are toothless and in order to eat they have a very specialised proboscis.  They vomit up their stomach contents - including the acid - and dissolve their food.  They then suck up the soupy nutrients via the proboscis. 

Disgusting, right?  Well, facehuggers have all these features.  They lack a jaw.  Acid is present. They have a proboscis.   A juvenile facehugger may very well be able vomit up acid, digest local material for food (and egg construction) much like an insect does to feed.  Tell them that.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 25, 2016, 09:03:56 PM
This is ridiculous.  It's time to let go of the egg on the Sulaco

That's not what it's time to let go off.

-Windebieste.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Aug 25, 2016, 09:57:23 PM
Quote from: windebieste on Aug 25, 2016, 09:54:06 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 25, 2016, 08:17:26 PM
Agreed.  I've been trying to sell that idea for a long time, though.  Hopefully you'll have better luck convincing people.

People like their insect analogies when it comes to just about everything regarding the Alien so here's one that might just suit.   We have hydrochloric acid in our stomachs essential for digestion.  We digest our food internally but insects, houseflies, for example, digest their food externally.  Houseflies are toothless and in order to eat they have a very specialised proboscis.  They vomit up their stomach contents - including the acid - and dissolve their food.  They then suck up the soupy nutrients via the proboscis. 

Disgusting, right?  Well, facehuggers have all these features.  They lack a jaw.  Acid is present. They have a proboscis.   A juvenile facehugger may very well be able vomit up acid, digest local material for food (and egg construction) much like an insect does to feed.  Tell them that.

I tried that, but my version was "like in The Fly."  Like I said, too simplistic and people won't believe it.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: windebieste on Aug 25, 2016, 10:06:06 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 25, 2016, 09:54:01 PM
I thought the same thing, but didn't he suggest that the ship would have reduced its gravity versus cutting it off entirely?

Yah.  This is why you can't shut it off entirely.  You wouldn't want to anyway.  It needs to still be on because the crew would otherwise wake up and not be able to find their coffee cups when they get up.  It's all explained in the post.  Reduced gravity, friction and the intertial frame of reference of all objects on the Nostromo traveling at exactly the same velocity together without any other force acting upon them would keep all objects in place.  Everything would be as light as a feather if you picked them up, but even a feather stays put when placed on a flat surface.

The egg is formed when the spore settles upon a surface.  Any surface.  Once it's determined it's safe, it sends out tendrils, feeds, grows and forms the egg.   For 'ALIEN 3' that surface just happens to be part of the ceiling.  Under significantly reduced gravity the egg could grow to full size unaffected, just its orientation is perpendicular to the surface it's attached to.  As it grows to full, it would cross a mass threshold where it would no longer be able to hold its contents and it disgorges the facehugger onto the floor. 

-Windebieste.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Aug 25, 2016, 10:10:14 PM
So the gravity is reduced enough for an egg to float up and get stuck on the ceiling, but not enough for absolutely everything else on the ship - cups, jars, dippy birds, clothes, loaders, drop ships the sleeping crew - to float around. 
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: windebieste on Aug 25, 2016, 10:20:05 PM
Quote from: SM on Aug 25, 2016, 10:10:14 PM
So the gravity is reduced enough for an egg to float up and get stuck on the ceiling, but not enough for absolutely everything else on the ship - cups, jars, dippy birds, clothes, loaders, drop ships the sleeping crew - to float around. 

Close, but you're missing a critical step.  I guess others will too, so more effort is required on my part. Not much:

The spores that the Queen drops on the deck of the Sulaco, 2 or more of them, would be partially formed facehuggers.  Basically just a tail and a sack of organs with a proboscis - very delicate and vulnerable.  It needs the egg to be safe to develop fully but does have the capacity to create one of its own if necessary.  It's small, though, which makes it very mobile - and fast.  It lands on the deck and intuitively seeks out safety.

Meanwhile, Ripley throws the Queen out the airlock, gathers Newt and hits the sack.  The ship then powers down its systems to conserve energy as I've outlined above. 

While this is happening the spore(s) migrate around the ship in low gravity and one of them attaches itself to the ceiling where we see it in 'ALIEN 3 and grows into maturity there.  The low gravity doesn't affect the egg growth but it does affect the growing mass of the egg and eventually forces it to open. 

Hope that helps.

-Windebieste.

Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Aug 25, 2016, 10:28:31 PM
With things like teeny proto-facehuggers (that were dropped when, and didn't get sucked out into space?), these teeny proto-facehuggers make their own eggs(?), some things defying gravity while others don't (setting aside that it makes perfect sense to reduce artificial gravity while the crew is asleep - David notwithstanding) - this has rapidly shifted from 'that has some merit' to 'this is too convoluted'.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Aug 25, 2016, 10:34:28 PM
This is why I went with mucous-like globules of tiny proto-eggs in my theory.  They don't require spidery proto-facehuggers crawling around the ship, just a bit of slime oozing out of the queen's abdomen and into the hangar's subflooring during her fight with Ripley. 

Presumably, this material would have been sticky enough to prevent it from being blown out into space when the whole room decompressed.  Either that or it landed in a place where it was safe from being dragged out by the airflow.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: windebieste on Aug 25, 2016, 10:36:10 PM
It's not that hard to understand.   Just give it some thought.

If you want to get down to every little detail.  Yes.  We can do that, too.

The egg doesn't float around. Gravity affects all objects the same way but the high mobility of the small, light weight spores permits them to access locations under these conditions and then grow into an egg on any surface. 

The spores use their tail to secure themselves to the floor grating during the rapid decompression.  Simple.

-Windebieste.


Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 25, 2016, 10:34:28 PM
This is why I went with mucous-like globules of tiny proto-eggs in my theory.  They don't require spidery proto-facehuggers crawling around the ship, just a bit of slime oozing out of the queen's abdomen and into the hangar's subflooring during her fight with Ripley. 

Presumably, this material would have been sticky enough to prevent it from being blown out into space when the whole room decompressed.  Either that or it landed in a place where it was safe from being dragged out by the airflow.

The principle is the same, just the details differ. Others have suggested similar solutions in the past.  The important point being made in each example is the Queen may still be capable of dropping spores despite the loss of its egg sac.

-Windebieste.


Here's the break down if it's too convoluted for you, or anyone else:

1).  Queen drops 2 (or more) spores.
2).  Queen gets thrown out the airlock and Ripley and Newt head off for the long sleep home.
3).  Ship's non-critical systems, including artificial gravity, power down.
4).  Spores migrate freely around the largely vacant low gravity ship, settle into place and become eggs.  One attaches to the ceiling under these conditions.

It's easy.  ;)

-Windebieste.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Kurai on Aug 25, 2016, 10:53:46 PM
Eh, I'm not so sure... We don't have any precedent for it. We may as well say a Warrior got on with the Queen and after everyone went to sleep, crawled above the hypersleep chambers and reverse-morphed into a Queen Egg and that's how it got there. :P

@SM: If I remember correctly there is a mention of artificial gravity being reengaged as the Nostromo crew wake up. Can't say for the Sulaco though.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: windebieste on Aug 25, 2016, 11:03:17 PM
The problem here is the Alien's biology is not set in stone.  Every film maker, including Scott, has modified it to some degree.  Scott removed the eggmorph scene.  Cameron added the Queen.  Fincher made the Alien compatible with other species.  and so on. 

As movie makers have each added their own take on the creature's life cycle just about anything is plausible. 

If you want an explanation of how the egg got on board the Sulaco, then the simplest is the best.  In this scenario, you just have to link presence of the Queen to the egg on the ceiling; and then just 'join the dots'. 

So yes.  It can be explained.  Given the malleability of the organism and this under explored area of the Queen's loss of an egg sac, it's a viable solution.

-Windebieste.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Aug 25, 2016, 11:08:09 PM
I think you have people buying into the basic principle, but you're losing them with every new variable you introduce.  The devil's in the details, so to speak.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Aug 25, 2016, 11:11:12 PM
I tend to side with 'the path of least making things up'.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: FiorinaFury161 on Aug 25, 2016, 11:22:59 PM
I've figured it out.

You all ready?

Spoiler
Alternate scene at end of ALIENS:

The Alien Queen had a dozen pre-mature eggs in a carton. The carton was placed deep in the spikes of her back, unseen to human eyes. She offered to make an omelet for Rips, Newt, Hicks and Bishop. Bishop refused, thus causing the queen to rip in half, in anger that he was insulting her cooking skills. Rips and Newt split; as the Queen searches for Newt in the subflooring, the carton opens and one slips into the cracks. The egg proceeds to stick upside down in the flooring, but Newt is terrified at the Queen's cooking skills, I mean anger, that she doesn't notice it and the rest of the movie continues, but with one alternate line:

"Get away from her, you terrible chef." LOL

Oh, the carton can be seen when the airlock sucks out the Queen, as an obscure, grey object.
[close]

:laugh:
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Aug 25, 2016, 11:27:03 PM
Quote from: SM on Aug 25, 2016, 11:11:12 PM
I tend to side with 'the path of least making things up'.

As do I.  The fact that you, of all people, are now admitting that the theory has some merit is groundbreaking.

Now we just need to reel you in and we don't do that by embellishing the theory with unnecessary additions.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: PsyKore on Aug 25, 2016, 11:29:43 PM
I like to believe there is no egg in reality but that the opening sequence is just images presented from the POV of Ripley's semi-conscience dream state. She's essentially hearing what's going on around her but her mind is inferring the images. Everything in the opening sequence is skewed or different in some way: upside-down egg, different appearance of cryo-chambers and Sulaco, etc. What I think happened is just a couple of facehuggers stowed away. And I know it has no weight, but for what it's worth, you hear a facehugger at the end of Aliens' credits.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Aug 25, 2016, 11:33:29 PM
QuoteThe fact that you, of all people, are now admitting that the theory has some merit is groundbreaking.

Had merit. 
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Aug 25, 2016, 11:36:07 PM
Quote from: SM on Aug 25, 2016, 11:33:29 PM
QuoteThe fact that you, of all people, are now admitting that the theory has some merit is groundbreaking.

Had merit.

Okay, so which part made it lose merit for you?
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: SM on Aug 25, 2016, 11:42:51 PM
Artificial gravity angle was a good start, but it lost me with teeny proto-facehuggery things.
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Local Trouble on Aug 25, 2016, 11:52:42 PM
Quote from: SM on Aug 25, 2016, 11:42:51 PM
Artificial gravity angle was a good start, but it lost me with teeny proto-facehuggery things.

I think that's why he backpedaled to "spores."  They don't need to be ambulatory, just very small and capable of taking root someplace where at least one of them can grow into this.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi66.tinypic.com%2Fjai6a9.jpg&hash=81048655b9eef5327f20a0181c80940767c17462)
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: Kurai on Aug 25, 2016, 11:56:34 PM
Predators wanted something cool to hunt so they broke into the Sulaco and put an Alien egg down whilst giggling to themselves only to realise that they'd messed up the ship while breaking in. They escaped just in time as the Sulaco's cryo-chamber room disengaged itself and began to plummet towards Fiorina 161. The Predator tells his friends down at the Predator pub all about it and so after a little hunt at Area 52, one of his Predator mates decides to go and check it out and finds that WY have made a real mess of things with Aliens on the loose everywhere.

I'm only half joking. XD
Title: Re: Egg on Sulaco
Post by: windebieste on Aug 26, 2016, 12:15:03 AM
The energy management and conservation aspect in relation to artificial gravity is still valid

Even Ripley remarks about reinitialising artificial gravity when the Nostromo is achieving escape velocity.  It makes sense the Sulaco has similar power management systems in place.

Aside from any speculation of the Queen's ability to procreate without an egg sac (