Looks like we might be getting the Xenomorph in Covenent after all, folks.
http://bloody-disgusting.com/news/3372841/alien-covenant-will-have-the-egg-face-hugger-and-chest-burster-says-ridley-scott/
Fantastic news! I had hoped it would be a given based on the Alien in the title but it's fantastic to see it down in writing.
I'm kind of "Eh!" about it.
At least I get front page credit for finding this.. Hah!
For me it's more exciting because of all the confusion about the creature and its inclusion in a Prometheus sequel. It's nice to have it confirmed - especially after his comments previously about it being played out.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Dec 12, 2015, 01:06:31 AM
At least I get front page credit for finding this.. Hah!
Haha. As long as you're happy mate. :P
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 12, 2015, 01:10:52 AM
For me it's more exciting because of all the confusion about the creature and its inclusion in a Prometheus sequel. It's nice to have it confirmed - especially after his comments previously about it being played out.
Well, now you're getting an Alien movie. A genuine, bonafide Alien movie. And it's from the man who had a hand in starting it all.
....Now I'm left wondering how this will effect Blomkamp's movie, assuming that will ever get off the ground.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 12, 2015, 01:10:52 AM
For me it's more exciting because of all the confusion about the creature and its inclusion in a Prometheus sequel. It's nice to have it confirmed - especially after his comments previously about it being played out.
Haha. As long as you're happy mate. :P
A consolation for me I suppose. The last time I was featured in the front page was in Feburary of 2007, back when I interviewed Ian Whyte and Tom Woodruff Jr. while they were attending Monster-mania.
I've been waiting for Scott to make a new 'ALIEN' movie for 36 years...
SHUT UP AND GIVE IT TO ME ALREADY!
-Windebieste.
Quote from: windebieste on Dec 12, 2015, 02:22:58 AM
I've been waiting for Scott to make a new 'ALIEN' movie for 36 years...
SHUT UP AND GIVE IT TO ME ALREADY!
-Windebieste.
What he said.
What's sad is that Giger won't be around to be properly utilised for this.
I've got several thoughts on this...
That's a pretty major *spoiler* at this stage Ridley,,,and it would have been awesome to only find that info. out in one of the eventual trailers, or even the movie itself! >:( And I guess if I hadn't read it here, that I would have been unable to avoid the fact due to other sites picking up on this too.
Considering Ridley's past 'uncertainty' about how 'scary' his original 'alien' still is, I wonder if the version(s?) seen in his follow-up will be radically re-designed from his original 'human-birthed' version or not? Personally, I hope it isn't overly re-designed from H R Giger's original if any humans are 'impregnated' - but who's to say that the eggs (and 'face-huggers') won't look different to begin with in this movie anyway...
It's nice to know that the original 'alien' creatures are finally going to be seen in these 'prequels', as 'the deacon' was a disappointing design to end on previously. Especially since they are in the hands of Ridley once more - I've no doubt that he's capable of bringing out the creepiness of them again.
I guess this means that Ridley's earlier intention to lead the imagery of the sequels away from his original somewhat, has finally been nixed...and we are indeed headed back into more familiar-looking territory. Although I'm pleased about seeing these designs again, I'm not entirely sure that I want it confirmed that the 'alien' is a created 'bio-weapon' after all. Considering Ridley messed-up the mystery of the spacejockey's remains with a dissappointing 'spacesuit' solution, I just hope he handles the 'origins' of the 'alien' a bit better.
Finally, I guess this means that the 'PROMETHEUS' movie ends up a vital part of my 'ALIEN' canon now, assuming that I really like the follow-up. Makes all the time I spent on working out how to re-edit it for myself worthwhile. ;D
this is great. That is what people want to see, the BEAST! Starbeast, Kane's son,
I couldn't be happier to hear this.
Thank you Alien: Isolation for proving to the higher ups that the Alien is STILL as terrifying and awesome as ever.
The twist ending: Jonsey will be the monsters master. ::)
So I guess they will ignore the Deacon will be ignore from the end of the last film and will never be seen or mention again ::)
Quote from: Hellspawn28 on Dec 12, 2015, 04:48:42 AM
So I guess they will ignore the Deacon will be ignore from the end of the last film and will never be seen or mention again ::)
I hope not...
Really exciting news, but I hope he can still pull off the atmosphere to go with it.
aka cleaning up Damon's mess
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Dec 12, 2015, 03:11:38 AM
What's sad is that Giger won't be around to be properly utilised for this.
It is sad but think about how much content he left behind that was never used in the films. Also think about how many artists there are that dedicate themselves to Giger.
Quote from: Godzillakuj94 on Dec 12, 2015, 05:21:27 AM
Quote from: Hellspawn28 on Dec 12, 2015, 04:48:42 AM
So I guess they will ignore the Deacon will be ignore from the end of the last film and will never be seen or mention again ::)
I hope not...
I would like to see it return since I would be mad if they totally ditch it. It would make the ending feel pointless in my opinion.
Well I'm a lot more excited now! I just hope Scott can deliver for us and breath some new life into our franchise with a film that the majority of us hardcore fans can enjoy as well as bring in some fresh new blood with those who may not have ever heard of our "little" fandom.
I just hope this is a natural development in the movie-making process, not something that Fox foisted on Scott. We don't want to have something similar like when Venom was forced into Spider-Man 3.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Dec 12, 2015, 03:11:38 AM
What's sad is that Giger won't be around to be properly utilised for this.
There's so much of his art out there that's gone unused, any new material would probably be redundant. Then there's all the unused Huante art as well.
Halle-f**king-lujah, I really do think Isolation was instrumental in all this, when the beast is executed right he's terrifying. I also suspect that the design(s) will be a tad different but only subtly so, just like Huante's artwork.
Godamn I'm getting excited for this, it seems Scott listened to FOX and was made aware of where they went wrong with Prometheus.
Wow I thought people were tired of the xeno. So this will be another alien remake. I guess thats what the majority of fans wanted. So as a franchise Prometheus no more ??
Quote from: oduodu on Dec 12, 2015, 08:27:32 AM
Wow I thought people were tired of the xeno. So this will be another alien remake. I guess thats what the majority of fans wanted. So as a franchise Prometheus no more ??
Nah we can have the best of both worlds. A new Alien trilogy and the Deacon trilogy which will consist of Prometheus and it's 2 sequels and then bam: Alien vs Deacon directed by Neil Bloomkamp.
We can't lose if this happens. :P
Probably not but I will be a bit disappointed we don't at least learn more about the engineers and why they wanted us dead. I don't just want an alien movie where everyone dies. It be be great if there was a scene where ans engineer and xeno interacted - not necessarily violently - like literally communicate with one another - not in words . This xeno must be like kane son. Intelligent - evil personified - biomechanical - the skull must be almost visible - the teeth must be metallic exactly the way it was in alien. I want to see egg morphing along with this . I want to see from what designs the xeno was created - was it actually the engineers who designed them or something above them.
I don't JUST want scenes in the dark where you don't know where the alien is going to come from.
I want to see the design idea behind them - their purpose shown more clearer.
But not everybody dies at the end and a lone survivor must now protect earth at all cost.
These things must be secondary to Shaw and David's characters and their respective plot lines.
Man cant wait for it!
This is good news. Regardless of how the story plays out, the thought of seeing Giger's Alien on screen for the first time since 1979 with Ridley Scott directing is a mouthwatering one.
What a good time to be a fan of this franchise!
I wonder that after this movie we will all look back and say "what was the point of Prometheus". I wonder how much of the murals/confusion will be explained.
I wonder/hope he'll retcon the Jockey size back to the big ol boy found in the original Alien.
Also hoping he'll Giger the shit out of everything.
This will be very interesting. Can't wait to see. I recently read William Gibson's second draft of Alien III and he makes a reference to the Aliens being engineered as a weapon, so there have always been roots there
I suppose he could say that Prometheus was a look back at Engineer culture before the mishap. At the very least it showed what they were sort of up too and that they also made us. There's the Deacon too, can always tell that story later. Pretty sure Alien: Covenant will explain Prometheus more than anything though.
Actually I'm thinking that Scott is going to explain a lot of things in the next movie, unlike where things were just hinted at in Prometheus.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Dec 12, 2015, 12:59:46 PM
I suppose he could say that Prometheus was a look back at Engineer culture before the mishap. At the very least it showed what they were sort of up too and that they also made us. There's the Deacon too, can always tell that story later. Pretty sure Alien: Covenant will explain Prometheus more than anything though.
Actually I'm thinking that Scott is going to explain a lot of things in the next movie, unlike where things were just hinted at in Prometheus.
Ehhhhhh........explaining things is pretty much a massive no no in any horror or fantasy series I think. Demystification never really works out too well.
Thinking midiclorians here, or the second half of Sinister.
I wouldn't get to excited about seeing a true Giger design. Everybody always has to "evolve" everything. Not to mention I wouldn't be surprised if they feature the next step of the Deacon that looks more like the Alien but hasn't quite got there yet.
Quote from: tmjhur on Dec 12, 2015, 01:05:31 PM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Dec 12, 2015, 12:59:46 PM
I suppose he could say that Prometheus was a look back at Engineer culture before the mishap. At the very least it showed what they were sort of up too and that they also made us. There's the Deacon too, can always tell that story later. Pretty sure Alien: Covenant will explain Prometheus more than anything though.
Actually I'm thinking that Scott is going to explain a lot of things in the next movie, unlike where things were just hinted at in Prometheus.
Ehhhhhh........explaining things is pretty much a massive no no in any horror or fantasy series I think. Demystification never really works out too well.
Thinking midiclorians here, or the second half of Sinister.
Not arguing with the logic but he did say we'll learn how and why the engineers made the xenomorphs. That sounds like a whole lotta explaining to me. Probably also why they were doing what they were doing on Earth. One thing that is not debatable is that Scott has always thought of the xeno as a weapon and this next movie will show us not until how this weapon is made and works but also what it was designed to destroy and odds are, it wasn't meant for us.
Midiclorians isn't a fair analogy as the force was more magical where as alien is grounded in science. Also showing us something is not the same as an origin story. I don't think this movie will be an origin story; now that could be bad.
Very happy about this news.
We get an expansion of the Engineer mythology along with a return to the Alien life-cycle by Ridley Scott. Bring. It. On.
Just hope the casting is good.
Quote from: razeak on Dec 12, 2015, 01:30:54 PM
I wouldn't get to excited about seeing a true Giger design. Everybody always has to "evolve" everything. Not to mention I wouldn't be surprised if they feature the next step of the Deacon that looks more like the Alien but hasn't quite got there yet.
I kind of wonder if the Deacon will actually be in it. The way they are presenting it is almost like they are rebooting Prometheus except they are carrying the best character over (Fassbender/David).
Ridley is very hard headed publicly but behind the scenes surely he can't be oblivious to all the flaws the Prometheus. Obviously there are people in Fox hired the search the Internet to find what people liked and disliked about the film and then there are other people who are hired to tell this to Ridley as delicately and Hollywoody as possible. "Ridley! Babe! you know we love ya! But the folks out there wanna see some crazy Giger shit!".
I'm not holding out for amazing Gigerness but a boy can dream, a boy can dream!
It wouldn't actually make sense for the "Deacon" to appear anyway, given that it was the product of a rather convoluted and improbable life cycle. Although the original design was intended to be a proto-"Xeno" of sorts when Prometheus was still an "Alien" prequel, as actually employed in Prometheus it was an abomination, essentially - included to reference "Alien" whilst maintaining the distance from the original creature design that Scott (for whatever reason) wanted.
Unless the one and only Deacon specimen hitch-hikes its way off LV-whatever-we're-calling-it-this-draft, I don't think we'll see it again.
Quote from: tmjhur on Dec 12, 2015, 02:45:42 PM
I kind of wonder if the Deacon will actually be in it. The way they are presenting it is almost like they are rebooting Prometheus except they are carrying the best character over (Fassbender/David).
That's also the feeling I've been getting. So far they've downplayed everything from Prometheus (except for David) and played-up everything from the original Alien.
QuoteRidley is very hard headed publicly but behind the scenes surely he can't be oblivious to all the flaws the Prometheus. Obviously there are people in Fox hired the search the Internet to find what people liked and disliked about the film and then there are other people who are hired to tell this to Ridley as delicately and Hollywoody as possible. "Ridley! Babe! you know we love ya! But the folks out there wanna see some crazy Giger shit!".
They don't even have to hire folk to trawl the internet, the favourable public and media reaction towards Blomkamp's proposed film and Alien: Isolation already made it very clear what people want.
Quote from: tmjhur on Dec 12, 2015, 12:38:37 PM
I wonder that after this movie we will all look back and say "what was the point of Prometheus". I wonder how much of the murals/confusion will be explained.
I wonder/hope he'll retcon the Jockey size back to the big ol boy found in the original Alien.
Also hoping he'll Giger the shit out of everything.
Exactly
Dream come true if the fully grown alien is revealed by slowly stepping out of the dark dark shadows towards it's prey while this track is playing at full force:
Quote
They don't even have to hire folk to trawl the internet, the favourable public and media reaction towards Blomkamp's proposed film and Alien: Isolation already made it very clear what people want.
Yeah true that!
I reckon Fox just used Blomkamp in order to manipulate Ridley into moving his ass to do the film.
Kind of like how if they are renegotiating a presenter's contract they'll act like they are looking to hire someone else for the job in order to have a card to play when dealing with the current talent. Make it seem like they won't wait forever and aren't willing to pay more money for their contract.
I just hope the Xenos in this movie will be done in suits and not CG.
So cool! It really is the next Alien film in the series!!!! :DDD :DDD
Even though I'm excited by this news, I still want to see a new creature, preferably one of the more cadaverous ultramorph designs:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1271.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj636%2Fskybeast3%2FPrometheus_Deacon_006.jpg&hash=57306e3cfeabd498c3c4b10577d2d61bcf8b5bef)
With the exception of the Ultramorph/Deacon at the end of Prometheus. Alien Covenant coming in 2017 It will have been about ten years since Alien Vs Predator Requiem back in 2007 that we've had a Xenomorph grace the movie screen.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Dec 12, 2015, 01:56:38 PM
Not arguing with the logic but he did say we'll learn how and why the engineers made the xenomorphs. That sounds like a whole lotta explaining to me. Probably also why they were doing what they were doing on Earth. One thing that is not debatable is that Scott has always thought of the xeno as a weapon and this next movie will show us not until how this weapon is made and works but also what it was designed to destroy and odds are, it wasn't meant for us.
Well said. Very excited to know why was the goo for us and the eggs for some others and not the other way around !
Quote from: Hellspawn28 on Dec 12, 2015, 05:59:22 PM
I just hope the Xenos in this movie will be done in suits and not CG.
Don't mind the technique as long as it feels real.
Part of me is excited and the other half wishes that we wouldn't get any of these details. I don't want to know the story before going in to it, nor the surprises of what will be in it.
Sounds really stupid, because a chestburster is a xeno, and if you are a fan of very aware of the alien universe then you would never,
say this.
So my trust in this is dropped by ten points.
It will suck. LoL sorry guys.
We all know how Ridley is,he chats bull(Prometheus will be a prequel,No it wont etc...)
Quote from: PRJ_since1990 on Dec 12, 2015, 07:59:59 PM
Part of me is excited and the other half wishes that we wouldn't get any of these details. I don't want to know the story before going in to it, nor the surprises of what will be in it.
I know what you mean, I really do. For
Prometheus, I forced myself to have the less info as possible and I think it was a good thing to do, although I admit it was difficult to achieve such a self restraining order ! I hope that they will feed us with less info from now on, and the trailers are going to be ambiguous.
Haven't had time to geek out lately, but wow, cool to see that the Prometheus storyline is turning more into another Alien saga. Rather have that than that mess Blomkamp was/is working on. i really hope that Scott stays true to the design, at least with one of the xeno specimens and tries to implement those features he wanted for it in 1979 that were technically impossible to execute with a man in a suit back then. I always loved the idea of the Alien being able to squeeze in anywhere; translucency; fold together etc.
Yes that's interesting what exactly will they use CGI or practical for the xeno ??
Good.
SpreadEagleBeagle: "I always loved the idea of the Alien being able to squeeze in anywhere; translucency; fold together etc."
Yeah, I'm down with that, and liked the translucent alien photos, but my fear is that every Alien incarnation since the original has not been true to the horror of the original film. Nothing has scared me since. Someone said that it's still scary in Isolation, but I'd say that's down to great direction in the game. If a director gets the atmosphere right I think even Freddy could still scare us. If you just think of the Alien in isolation from atmosphere, no pun intended, then it just taps into its much wider presence in marketing of the alien films.
I think SpreadEagleBeagle comments aced it in how the alien should look, an alien true to the big scary original "Alien" alien, but with those extra things to add something new but old at the same time (idea's wise). And like the AI in games, we need to believe that it's unpredictable, thinking, thoughtful, curious about us, but ultimately the corporeality of our worst nightmares, so scary that like a nightmare there is no escape, you want to run but can't and then that moment when it gets you, parker, lambert, kane ... those kills were pure horror, not the "this time it's war" kills of hudson etc. Although, I will add Burke's "death/capture" when he turns around was amazingly scary but nothing to do with the alien there, it was just so scary as he had no where to run, alone, couldn't go back to the marines, exposed ... you felt this as the audience and then he gets it, with an excellent sound effect of the alien snarling.
One final caveat, I've learned a lot on this site and one thing that makes a lot of sense is that I always through the chest burster looked a bit rubbish, not the scene that was pure cinema history, but how it looked when it burst on the scene. When I found out that it was Ridley's design, it made a lot of scene so I'm a bit worried about what he may do. Although in saying this, I'm confident he's a "no one can hear you scream" rather than a "this time its war" director so even if it looks a bit naff, I'm sure his direction will scare us to compensate and make the whole package work. That's if he truly wants to scare us ...
Thank you based riddles. After the underwhelming giant squid, cobra penis/vagina and zombie mutant this is reassuring. Covenant really needs to step up the creature feature game.
Now just dont pull a predators and snub the classic over some new thing, though I trust riddles to not do this.
I see some here are concerned that the 'deacon' shown at the end of PROMETHEUS won't feature in the sequel. Well I happen to agree with what Biggles said earlier, that it certainly won't matter...as the planet it was left on is unlikely to feature in the follow-up, if the movie mainly focuses on the 'Engineer's homeworld.
It was merely the result of a weird set of 'life stages' anyway - starting off as a droplet of 'black goo' ingested by a human (Holloway)...who then inseminated his human partner (Shaw)...who then 'birthed' a rapidly developing 'squid monster' (through cutting herself open - would it have eventually bitten through her?)...which then grew into a large 'squid-facehugger'...who inseminated and smothered an 'Engineer'...finishing off with a 'baby deacon' ripping out of the corpse.
It was a disappointingly non-threatening-looking design as far as I'm concerned, and I disliked the fact that it was so fully-formed with all it's limbs already well-developed...as well as the fact it didn't have a lethal tail ! I also didn't like how it just 'plopped' out of it's host. The scene had none of the kinetic momentum that Ridley's classic original 'chestburster' scene had...and I'd have preferred to see it slowly hauling itself out of the chest cavity with it's already formed arms and claws. That would have looked far more creepy I reckon. But thanks to the lights flashing on-and-off so much during the scene, it's possible to re-edit it for myself so that the 'baby deacon' is up on it's feet and squealing far more quickly - which is more effective for me.
For the record, I reckon there were some very scary-looking versions of the 'deacon' that were designed...which unfortunately weren't realised onscreen by Ridley. So I'm content to just imagine this unfortunate-looking creature soon found it's way inside the 'pyramid', and eventually came across an unfriendly 'hammerpede' or two... ;D
Quote from: Infected on Dec 12, 2015, 08:19:38 PM
Sounds really stupid, because a chestburster is a xeno, and if you are a fan of very aware of the alien universe then you would never,
say this.
So my trust in this is dropped by ten points.
It will suck. LoL sorry guys.
I'm thinking you may have read the butchered quote. Right after saying chestburster he said " then the big boy" or something but that part was originally omitted form the article.
Quote from: King geedorah on Dec 12, 2015, 11:46:15 PM
Thank you based riddles. After the underwhelming giant squid, cobra penis/vagina and zombie mutant this is reassuring. Covenant really needs to step up the creature feature game.
Now just dont pull a predators and snub the classic over some new thing, though I trust riddles to not do this.
The hammerpede and squidles were awesome creatures. The mutant was a total f**k up though. However I can't wait to see the planet. Prometheus was beautiful if nothing more. Can you guys just imagine a Giger world done in such a magnificent way? That's one of the things I'm looking forward to the most from this series. I wanna see the true beauty of hell done in an A way.
I wish Giger was around. I'd like to see a film that's more reminiscent of his artworks. The later Alien films turned more and more away to a different visual. Aliens is the closest in my opinion. The original Alien has a good horror storyline. I'm fine if a director could create a different visual that's good, but so far it didn't look that interesting to me - especially the last AvP movie.
I've seen/heard/read nothing to suggest Scott has reversed course on wanting the Space Jockeys to still be bald guys in suits or that he wants to return to proper Giger biomechanics.
His last known statements on 'Prometheus' were that he was completely happy with how it turned out.
I'd like to think that 'Isolation' or even talks with Blomkampt could have been responsible for this, but we already have his quote on the matter. He was influenced by 'Star Wars' coming back into vogue (which is ironic, considering that was responsible for the Nostromo's down-and-dirty aesthetic, too), nothing else.
Quote from: Shinawi on Dec 13, 2015, 02:55:28 AM
I wish Giger was around. I'd like to see a film that's more reminiscent of his artworks. The later Alien films turned more and more away to a different visual. Aliens is the closest in my opinion. The original Alien has a good horror storyline. I'm fine if a director could create a different visual that's good, but so far it didn't look that interesting to me - especially the last AvP movie.
Like I've said before, there's thousands of pieces of unused Giger art lying around. I mean, it's sad that he's dead, but you just have to reach into his portfolio to pull out something brilliant.
Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Dec 13, 2015, 03:29:48 AM
Quote from: Shinawi on Dec 13, 2015, 02:55:28 AM
I wish Giger was around. I'd like to see a film that's more reminiscent of his artworks. The later Alien films turned more and more away to a different visual. Aliens is the closest in my opinion. The original Alien has a good horror storyline. I'm fine if a director could create a different visual that's good, but so far it didn't look that interesting to me - especially the last AvP movie.
Like I've said before, there's thousands of pieces of unused Giger art lying around. I mean, it's sad that he's dead, but you just have to reach into his portfolio to pull out something brilliant.
Yep. Plus, Giger wasn't really into the biomechanics so much in his later years, anyway. All that the art directors need to do is grab copies of Giger's Alien, Necronomicon, and New York, and they're good to go. 8)
I hope they bring out the alien's full potential, which is a must when they show their home world. The aliens can build. Let's see them with property, buildings and weapons, and even spaceships.
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Dec 13, 2015, 04:25:04 PM
Yep. Plus, Giger wasn't really into the biomechanics so much in his later years, anyway. All that the art directors need to do is grab copies of Giger's Alien, Necronomicon, and New York, and they're good to go. 8)
WHOA! watch Dark Star on Netflix. His total library is biomechanical, some more than others, but all the same.
Quote from: Flexserve on Dec 14, 2015, 12:02:41 AM
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Dec 13, 2015, 04:25:04 PM
Yep. Plus, Giger wasn't really into the biomechanics so much in his later years, anyway. All that the art directors need to do is grab copies of Giger's Alien, Necronomicon, and New York, and they're good to go. 8)
WHOA! watch Dark Star on Netflix. His total library is biomechanical, some more than others, but all the same.
Actually, not so much. Ever read this book?
http://www.amazon.com/Www-Hr-Giger-Com/dp/3822887242/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1450052568&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=www+hrgiger+com (http://www.amazon.com/Www-Hr-Giger-Com/dp/3822887242/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1450052568&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=www+hrgiger+com)
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Dec 14, 2015, 12:23:32 AM
Quote from: Flexserve on Dec 14, 2015, 12:02:41 AM
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Dec 13, 2015, 04:25:04 PM
Yep. Plus, Giger wasn't really into the biomechanics so much in his later years, anyway. All that the art directors need to do is grab copies of Giger's Alien, Necronomicon, and New York, and they're good to go. 8)
WHOA! watch Dark Star on Netflix. His total library is biomechanical, some more than others, but all the same.
Actually, not so much. Ever read this book?
http://www.amazon.com/Www-Hr-Giger-Com/dp/3822887242/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1450052568&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=www+hrgiger+com (http://www.amazon.com/Www-Hr-Giger-Com/dp/3822887242/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1450052568&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=www+hrgiger+com)
You mean the one with all the biomechanical pics? No. Dark Star was 2014. Sorry. It's not that important to me to prove it to you when Netflix will suffice. I know the truth and that's good enough for me. Peace out, not worth the time of a forum "back and forth" over something so trivial. But check out the Netflix movie..it's pretty good.
I'm keeping my excitement in check, it's still a prometheus sequel we're talking about. I'm pretty much expecting a xeno appearance to be more of a cameo then anything, perhaps feature as much as the Fifield monster did.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Dec 12, 2015, 03:05:36 PM
Quote from: tmjhur on Dec 12, 2015, 02:45:42 PM
I kind of wonder if the Deacon will actually be in it. The way they are presenting it is almost like they are rebooting Prometheus except they are carrying the best character over (Fassbender/David).
That's also the feeling I've been getting. So far they've downplayed everything from Prometheus (except for David) and played-up everything from the original Alien.
I get the same notion. And I'm quite happy about that. There were plenty of things in Prometheus I liked but as a film itself it frustrated the hell out of me. I am quite happy with them doing what they should have done originally and have a film that explores the Jockeys/Engineers with the Aliens in it.
I just hope it's all coherent and not some convoluted clusterf**ked story about their relation.
I'd be really interested to see where all this swerving back into Alien came from. The true reasons behind it. I hope it's chronicled.
Given how adamant they were that they weren't going to do Alien with the Prometheus film series, and that they went out of there way to not have the Alien in the first film, suddenly completely reneging on that standpoint and shoving the Alien back into the sequel does not fill me with confidence.
That's why I really want to know how the turnabout came to be.
Better get Lauzirika on the phone.
Last I spoke to him it wasn't looking likely. :-\ Fox didn't seem keen on him coming back. Despite how good his work is, they're evidently not fans of him at the minute. Granted we were talking about Alien 5 and not Prometheus 2 but still.
Huh, I wonder why that is.
I didn't push the point. This was back in March though so I don't know if anything has changed.
More important point is that it's going to be a huge detriment if Charles isn't involved with the home release. He's been such a huge and important part of this franchise even if fans don't necessarily know his name.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 14, 2015, 02:03:59 PMMore important point is that it's going to be a huge detriment if Charles isn't involved with the home release.
Absolutely. The
Alien home video releases are legitimately some of the best on the market in terms of content and presentation, and have consistently been so. I can think of one, maybe two other sets that are as good. Given Lauzirika's obvious passion for the series, I'm guessing that quality is due in no small part to him.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 14, 2015, 01:07:53 PM
That's why I really want to know how the turnabout came to be.
It could be something as simple as studio politics. Rumour has it that the request to remove the Alien from Prometheus came from Fox Film Entertainment CEO and co-chairman, Tom Rothman. Rothman left Fox in 2012 and Jim Gianopulos is now fully in charge as sole chair.
Not sure what other management changes were made after Rothman's departure but typically the "new regime" would proceed to do exactly the opposite of what the "previous regime" did - such is studio politics and human nature.
Also, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, Fox is well aware of all the media and fan excitement surrounding Blomkamp's proposed Alien film which would have re-introduced the classical Alien. Alien: Isolation also showed that, that particular beast hasn't been cooked yet. Couple that with Hollywood's current nostalgia mania with films such as the new Star Wars sequels coming out and it all begins to make sense.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Dec 14, 2015, 01:57:14 PM
Huh, I wonder why that is.
Probably because of the fact that the Furious Gods documentary was better and more entertaining than the actual film? :laugh:
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Dec 14, 2015, 02:08:30 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 14, 2015, 02:03:59 PMMore important point is that it's going to be a huge detriment if Charles isn't involved with the home release.
Absolutely. The Alien home video releases are legitimately some of the best on the market in terms of content and presentation, and have consistently been so. I can think of one, maybe two other sets that are as good. Given Lauzirika's obvious passion for the series, I'm guessing that quality is due in no small part to him.
Agreed, the Alien quadrilogy/anthology documentaries were really great - thorough and in-depth. I also liked what he did with the Alien 3 Assembly Cut, it is my preferred version actually. Not to mention the amazing Blade Runner Final Cut and the Dangerous Days documentary.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Dec 14, 2015, 03:00:01 PMAgreed, the Alien quadrilogy/anthology documentaries were really great - thorough and in-depth. I also liked what he did with the Alien 3 Assembly Cut, it is my preferred version actually. Not to mention the amazing Blade Runner Final Cut and the Dangerous Days documentary.
The documentaries are superb and the obvious tip of the bonus features iceberg, but just the sheer volume of interesting extras, both old and new, that they include every time they put out a new collection seriously impresses me, and it's always beautifully packaged and presented. There's, what, 60 hours of bonus stuff on the Anthology set? Couple that with the sleek box and menus. It's just an incredibly competent, well-designed set. From what I've read, it seems Lauzirika was the man responsible for all of that. (He also did the Quadrilogy before that. Not sure about the Legacy set.)
I don't think the 'big boy' is going to be the villain, probably more Engineers or the Deacon. More than likely it will be a 'cameo' of sorts, which I am perfectly fine with. Save it for the series' final crescendo anyway.
Hmmm. Charles is also a story analyst. The guys who actually goes and looks for stories. I wonder if he had anything to do with Covenant or Prometheus in terms of finding a story.
Yada Yada Yada
Sir Ridley Scott has ways of turning this into garbage.
Can't be any worse than what Fincher did with Alien 3.
Quote from: NickisSmart on Dec 15, 2015, 01:28:29 AMCan't be any worse than what Fincher did with Alien 3.
Dafuq?
Literally none of the problems with that movie were down to Fincher, who was brought in at the eleventh hour and basically salvaged things as best he could. The direction in that movie is actually superb.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Dec 14, 2015, 03:34:29 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Dec 14, 2015, 03:00:01 PMAgreed, the Alien quadrilogy/anthology documentaries were really great - thorough and in-depth. I also liked what he did with the Alien 3 Assembly Cut, it is my preferred version actually. Not to mention the amazing Blade Runner Final Cut and the Dangerous Days documentary.
The documentaries are superb and the obvious tip of the bonus features iceberg, but just the sheer volume of interesting extras, both old and new, that they include every time they put out a new collection seriously impresses me, and it's always beautifully packaged and presented. There's, what, 60 hours of bonus stuff on the Anthology set? Couple that with the sleek box and menus. It's just an incredibly competent, well-designed set. From what I've read, it seems Lauzirika was the man responsible for all of that. (He also did the Quadrilogy before that. Not sure about the Legacy set.)
I've yet to find another release that I love as much as I do the Quadrilogy or Anthology. I always say that those releases spoiled me when it comes to DVDs and Blu-Rays.
Mikey: Alright...so... I personally don't know a lot about you. I'm sure a lot of the other members on the website don't either. Could you tell us a little bit more about what you do and where you are and if I remember this correctly, from a little bit of the research I've done, did you help Ridley Scott start in the direction of using DVDs for his movies?Charles: Yeah, I mean that's kind of how I got started on DVDs, was through Ridley. I had been working at his company. I had started as an intern when I was at film school but then I went on to become a script reader. Then I was just assigned a variety of special little projects and things and during that time, DVD was just starting out. This was around '97, '98 and I heard on the grapevine that Fox was working on the first Alien set which turned out to be the Alien Legacy set. And I just happened to mention to Ridley that these DVDs are going to be a really great format... maybe you should take advantage of it, look into it and on top of that, please make this first Alien set as great as it could be. I gave him a full brief on DVD and its whole potential and before he went to meet with Fox, he basically turned to me and asked is this something you can be in charge of for me and I just pretty much said yes, jumped in and it was a trial by fire. I learned very quickly but I don't know, I just kind of enjoyed it and it was a nice little side job that turned into a 14 year side job.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/website/interviews/charles-de-lauzirika/
The only complaint i have concerning the 2010 Anthology set is the micro-text used throughout the bonus supplements.Even on a 50 inch tv screen its hard to read.
I'm ok with seeing an alien in the new film. I just hope they get the origin story right and don't cheese out. It is very risky when you take the mystery out of something like this. It's just like with the Engineers. Some fans prefer them to be elephant nosed characters, while others like me are ok with the human connection. I expect some fans will be ok with the alien origin, while others will say this movie ruined their childhood.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 15, 2015, 08:40:25 AM
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/website/interviews/charles-de-lauzirika/
Cheers for the linky to the interview Corporal. Somehow I completely missed it when you first posted it.
Quote from: Charles de LauzirikaCharles: Hmm, well, you know, I read AvPGalaxy, you know, occasionally. I still, obviously, during the making of Prometheus, I read it all the time, I mean I was at Pinewood. We had our office that I shared with Stacey Mann, the publicist and Kerry Brown the still photographer. We all shared an office together. I was always checking out AvPGalaxy, IMDB's board, all the various boards and I would always be reporting back to them. Hey they're saying this, they're saying that. This leaked out, these photos got out, and it was just very amusing to me, just to have that instant connection with the forum members, even though I wasn't posting. I'm not on AvPGalaxy, I don't post under an alias or anything like that but I do read it, you know and still to this day, I still read it, and to me, it's just a fascinating perspective to have because you kind of want to reach through the screen sometimes and scream at people. Like no you're entirely wrong about everything you're saying but I appreciate the passion that everyone has. I mean, even if they don't like the film or even if they have problems with certain things, you can still tell they love this universe and still care about it very passionately because they're still arguing about it, you know, I've told people that many times about Prometheus.
Whoah... we better be watching what we say on these boards! It all gets reported back to Riddles & Co.! :laugh:
But yeah, I remember he was quite active on the Bladezone boards back when he was putting together the Final Cut. He'd always chip-in to correct anyone who was posting bollocks.
Would also love to see what a Prometheus Lauzirika cut would look like. It's actually baffling how some scenes ended-up getting deleted when they were actaully better than those that did make it into the film. And if he's that close to Ridley then I'm sure he'll end-up documenting Alien: Covenant even if Blomkamp's Alien seemed unlikely.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Dec 15, 2015, 03:03:38 PM
Whoah... we better be watching what we say on these boards! It all gets reported back to Riddles & Co.! :laugh:
The site actually features on the blu-ray. :P
Hear, Hear HuDaFuK re Alien 3. Alien 3 had so much going for it, unfortunately not the Alien design, who thought it would be a smart move to have a cheetah-like Alien that hunted prey with speed, where's the horror in that? Alien's alien was so horrifying, it seemed that you'd almost hope that it just kills you. A lesson to be learned.
Wheres the horror in a monster hunting you with cheetah-like speed? Really? Ever been chased by a really big angry pit bull runnin for you at full speed? Probably not. ::) Besides, most images of the xeno are more relateable to the alien from Alien 3 what with the smooth head, double jointed dinosaur-like legs and fish bowl vision presented in most Avp fps's. Go and get yourself chased by something relentless and wants you dead and then tell me what lesson youve learned. If your still alive that is.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Dec 15, 2015, 08:36:56 AM
Quote from: NickisSmart on Dec 15, 2015, 01:28:29 AMCan't be any worse than what Fincher did with Alien 3.
Dafuq?
Literally none of the problems with that movie were down to Fincher, who was brought in at the eleventh hour and basically salvaged things as best he could. The direction in that movie is actually superb.
I know. : )
Quote from: itshouldneverhavebeenabug on Dec 15, 2015, 08:29:54 PM
Hear, Hear HuDaFuK re Alien 3. Alien 3 had so much going for it, unfortunately not the Alien design, who thought it would be a smart move to have a cheetah-like Alien that hunted prey with speed, where's the horror in that? Alien's alien was so horrifying, it seemed that you'd almost hope that it just kills you. A lesson to be learned.
It bothers me that that Alien didn't try to kidnap people instead.
The Runner design in
Alien 3 is actually probably my favourite in the series. I love how predatory it looks. It's too bad they did such a bad job of portraying the puppet in the film.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 16, 2015, 08:27:47 AMIt bothers me that that Alien didn't try to kidnap people instead.
Yeah, the loss of the cocoon scene really hurt the film.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Dec 16, 2015, 10:19:36 AM
Yeah, the loss of the cocoon scene really hurt the film.
Sadly thats because Giler and Hill kept changing everything. The amount of stuff they put in and took back out within a few days was exhaustingly confusing.
Also dont get me started on Hill and Giler lmao
Alien 3 had the best scene in the series . When ripley went looking for the alien and then found it : the way it climbed out and handled her.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Dec 12, 2015, 03:11:38 AM
What's sad is that Giger won't be around to be properly utilised for this.
I agree
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Dec 16, 2015, 10:19:36 AM
The Runner design in Alien 3 is actually probably my favourite in the series. I love how predatory it looks. It's too bad they did such a bad job of portraying the puppet in the film.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 16, 2015, 08:27:47 AMIt bothers me that that Alien didn't try to kidnap people instead.
Yeah, the loss of the cocoon scene really hurt the film.
That would have been nice, but wasn't it there only to protect the queen in ripley?
Quote from: oduodu on Dec 16, 2015, 02:32:08 PM
Alien 3 had the best scene in the series . When ripley went looking for the alien and then found it : the way it climbed out and handled her.
I agree.
And don't forget the scene where it's in the lead mold with ripley. Crazy with rage and as soon as Dillon touches her....pure focus.
That to me was terrifying. Not to mention when Dillon started to climb and it mirrored him all the way back down. The direct challenge between Dillon and the beast was to me a sign of purpose for the alien. I interpreted that scene as the alien protecting the queen embryo more so than just mindless killing machine.
But I'm am on the fence about the emergence of the xenomorph in the upcoming film. If not done properly I feel like they could smear the name farther than it already has been.
I share the same thoughts as corporal on this one as well and have to ask...what brought about the change. Why the sudden interest in going back to the xenomorph when he has clearly stated multiple times that he is done with the beast.
Quote from: oduodu on Dec 16, 2015, 02:32:08 PM
Alien 3 had the best scene in the series . When ripley went looking for the alien and then found it : the way it climbed out and handled her.
Love the scene in the extended version when Ripley is found on the beach. It looks great!
Some of the visuals were awesome in that movie. The atmosphere was well done.
There are so many incredible unused stories from the alien franchise from the alien learning to speak to the munk planet to the usused original Prometheus story.
There's no denying what a great film Alien 3 was in terms of visuals. As a stand-alone film it is quite excellent. As a follow-up to Aliens it is terrible and feels very contrived. I mean if you were going to go into this film without knowing anything that went on before, you would love it. But seeing how it destroys everything Aliens builds up and with such wanton abandon, just makes the film irredeemable..
I liked it when we were all still guessing who and what the Space Jockeys were. The two prequels have started to ruin the mysterious feel Alien had, as well as the expanded universe, kind of like Star Wars 7.
Quote from: itshouldneverhavebeenabug on Dec 15, 2015, 08:29:54 PM
Hear, Hear HuDaFuK re Alien 3. Alien 3 had so much going for it, unfortunately not the Alien design, who thought it would be a smart move to have a cheetah-like Alien that hunted prey with speed, where's the horror in that? Alien's alien was so horrifying, it seemed that you'd almost hope that it just kills you. A lesson to be learned.
I think speed can be useful, if it's done to give emphasis to viciousness. Aliens could go through groups of people like living chainsaw and it could be a terrifying sight -
if it's done right.
The creature has always been a mixture of deliberate stalking and quick striking/abduction. Like a shark or spider.
With that said, I don't think the creature effects of '
Alien 3' managed to emulate that well. It just always looks fake and fails to sell the central premise of it being a living horror. A few really great instances of acting, but the monster stuff failed to convince.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 16, 2015, 08:27:47 AM
It bothers me that that Alien didn't try to kidnap people instead.
Truly! The potential of the creature to do something unseen, yet
worse to you than just acting like a lion/tiger/bear, has always worked wonders to elevate it above the villains from slasher films. It's always been a prospect which hovers at the back of your mind, every time you see a victim being taken.
We didn't originally see the cocoon sequence from '
Alien', but the possibility was still worked into other stuff. Saying how nothing was found around Dallas' flamethrower. Not knowing
what the heck happened to Lambert. Then later, in '
Aliens', nothing even happens during the Marines' first foray into the colony, but it's kept really tense and those mentions of not finding any bodies, even amidst the sight of a last stand... It's seriously eerie, man.
The first might have been a haunted house, but by the time we follow them into the nest, the sequel has become like wandering into Dracula's crypt.
A lot of the power of the creature was diminished by completely removing those aspects. It turns up, randomly kills someone and then buggers off. It just...
Feels very different. A dangerous animal, sure, but you know you're getting the kind of quick death the first two instalments
deliberately hinted might not be a possibility for their victims.
The closest it came to that were the strange 'mauling'-like actions it was undertaking with the prisoners, but it was never clear what was going on during those (so much so, that parts of fandom began to speculate in the 1990s that it might have been attempting to emulate the 'humping' instinct of its canine host, to assert social dominance), because the actual bodies didn't seem to have any actual clothing or flesh removed. Especially during Dillon's death, when he's just angrily shouting, "Is that all you've got? Is that all you've got?!"
It's a
world removed from the death scenes of Brett and Lambert, where you get the sense that just being close to the thing would make someone want to turn inside-out with primal revulsion.
If there had been a cocoon scene, it would have returned some much-needed undertones of dread to the creature's motivations, rather than the more simplistic opportunistic kills which we view.
Quote from: plagueharvester813 on Dec 16, 2015, 08:59:33 PM
I liked it when we were all still guessing who and what the Space Jockeys were. The two prequels have started to ruin the mysterious feel Alien had, as well as the expanded universe, kind of like Star Wars 7.
Well this is a big risk. I mean we've been wondering about the Space Jockey since 1979, so if the reveal is not spectacularly compelling, it can be a let-down. As it is, I think it has divided the fans into 2 camps. I mean I think it is very cool that we actually found ourselves within the Engineers, but at the same time, the whole idea ceases to be very "alien". I mean, its us. If anything, we become alien, and perhaps that is an even greater shock...
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Dec 16, 2015, 09:03:42 PM
Quote from: itshouldneverhavebeenabug on Dec 15, 2015, 08:29:54 PM
Hear, Hear HuDaFuK re Alien 3. Alien 3 had so much going for it, unfortunately not the Alien design, who thought it would be a smart move to have a cheetah-like Alien that hunted prey with speed, where's the horror in that? Alien's alien was so horrifying, it seemed that you'd almost hope that it just kills you. A lesson to be learned.
I think speed can be useful, if it's done to give emphasis to viciousness. Aliens could go through groups of people like living chainsaw and it could be a terrifying sight - if it's done right.
The creature has always been a mixture of deliberate stalking and quick striking/abduction. Like a shark or spider.
With that said, I don't think the creature effects of 'Alien 3' managed to emulate that well. It just always looks fake and fails to sell the central premise of it being a living horror. A few really great instances of acting, but the monster stuff failed to convince.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 16, 2015, 08:27:47 AM
It bothers me that that Alien didn't try to kidnap people instead.
Truly! The potential of the creature to do something unseen, yet worse to you than just acting like a lion/tiger/bear, has always worked wonders to elevate it above the villains from slasher films. It's always been a prospect which hovers at the back of your mind, every time you see a victim being taken.
We didn't originally see the cocoon sequence from 'Alien', but the possibility was still worked into other stuff. Saying how nothing was found around Dallas' flamethrower. Not knowing what the heck happened to Lambert. Then later, in 'Aliens', nothing even happens during the Marines' first foray into the colony, but it's kept really tense and those mentions of not finding any bodies, even amidst the sight of a last stand... It's seriously eerie, man.
The first might have been a haunted house, but by the time we follow them into the nest, the sequel has become like wandering into Dracula's crypt.
A lot of the power of the creature was diminished by completely removing those aspects. It turns up, randomly kills someone and then buggers off. It just... Feels very different. A dangerous animal, sure, but you know you're getting the kind of quick death the first two instalments deliberately hinted might not be a possibility for their victims.
The closest it came to that were the strange 'mauling'-like actions it was undertaking with the prisoners, but it was never clear what was going on during those (so much so, that parts of fandom began to speculate in the 1990s that it might have been attempting to emulate the 'humping' instinct of its canine host, to assert social dominance), because the actual bodies didn't seem to have any actual clothing or flesh removed. Especially during Dillon's death, when he's just angrily shouting, "Is that all you've got? Is that all you've got?!"
It's a world removed from the death scenes of Brett and Lambert, where you get the sense that just being close to the thing would make someone want to turn inside-out with primal revulsion.
If there had been a cocoon scene, it would have returned some much-needed undertones of dread to the creature's motivations, rather than the more simplistic opportunistic kills which we view.
I agree with pretty much all of that. Especially about the cocoon scene. However I disagree about the display of dominance. I recall the original alien carrying out similar attack traits on Brett. During the scene with dillon (one of my favorites btw) there was blood spraying while they were intertwined. It looked to me like he was lacerating the coratid artery and jugular. I took this as more of a bloodlust or even an anger based attack because Dillon came in contact with the host vessel of the future queen.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Dec 16, 2015, 09:03:42 PMThe potential of the creature to do something unseen, yet worse to you than just acting like a lion/tiger/bear, has always worked wonders to elevate it above the villains from slasher films.
Very good point. The concept of getting eaten or mauled to death by an animal is sort of part of our DNA. We
fear it, but we're not horrified by it.
I've always found the true horror of the Alien in being what would happen if you are taken away. Whether it was the cut eggmorphing from Alien or the hive of Aliens - that fate is far worse than that of mere death. That's what gave me nightmares for so many years.
One thing that bothered me is that at the very end of Alien we got to see the Alien as a whole, when it was floating in space before getting burned. Up until then it was part of the darkness in the ship and you only got to see glimpses of its head, body ... what it was in its entirety was a mystery and your imagination had to compensate for what you didn't see, to me that is classic horror direction and the making of a good scary film. Darkness has such a basic sense of fear that with the Alien submerging and merging out of it made the Alien almost personify our primal fears of the dark, and those worst fears personified when the Alien gets you seeing it only for a fleeting glimpse, infact very Bacon like if you look at his work there are only glimpse of form and it disturbs you. That's my take on how the alien should be again, just find someway to submerge it into the darkness that our imagination can help build our fear based on the limited windows we get to see its form, which I feel is why Alien worked so well. Art nowadays is derided because form is king over shadow and light, which the masters used to create art from. Art almost becomes illustration and its grandeur is lost, very much like the Giger's original art used in films after Alien.
I guess it won't be done but its those moments where Ridley just let it run in Alien that are the best moments, no dialogue, no soundtrack, albeit with ambient atmospheric sounds in the background. The sort of scene where if someone knocks something off the table, i.e. in the med room in Aliens, you actually jump. And I'm not mixing it ups with quoting Aliens in there and defeating my own arguement, I'm supporting it as up until then in Aliens you were still dealing with the fear that Alien gave you. After the "this time its war" aliens kicked in it was an action film and the alien was demoted to a Jaws like creature that didn't scare me and then a jurassic park like creature with the queen. I think horror can be an art and if Ridley can make Covenant with an Alien that just makes you jumpy thinking about, then he's migrated it back into the darkness and fears of our subconsciousness and recreated the art of his original and showing reverence to Giger as an artist and not taking his art as illustration.
In my view the original translucent designs and the photos I've seen would be a good start to bring its disturbing mystery back to its horror roots.
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Dec 16, 2015, 11:34:32 PM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Dec 16, 2015, 09:03:42 PMThe potential of the creature to do something unseen, yet worse to you than just acting like a lion/tiger/bear, has always worked wonders to elevate it above the villains from slasher films.
Very good point. The concept of getting eaten or mauled to death by an animal is sort of part of our DNA. We fear it, but we're not horrified by it.
Like when we created DRAGONS.. it's inherently scary because of our roots.. snake mixed with tiger..mixed with hawk/eagle (large bird) all things that prey upon and hunt without conscience. All things that animals are afraid of mixed into one. There is a certain psychology there that I find neat.
Alien 3 has a couple lines calling the alien a "dragon" found this to be neat.
And then what makes the Alien so much scarier is that it has no eyes. Its been said that the eyes are the portal into the soul. Even if you are faced with a lion or a tiger, you have the sense that you are dealing with a creature that is capable of similar emotions on some level. I mean we all love to see those images of a lion and her cubs. With the Alien, you can never have that connection because there is no eye contact. That takes it into a territory that is disturbingly psycho sexual. Mama parts and papa parts have no eyes either. Scariest monster design ever. Giger was brilliant..
Yeah, the dragon analogy in 'Alien 3' was something I liked. It works on the same level as the stuff in 'Predator' to give the creature a mythical status. That was also an element I liked about the first of the AVP films, where there were references to them being termed 'serpents' (although, while that had some great legendary links it could have led to, I never quite understood why the Aliens would have been termed as snakes, considering the engravings were all of them with arms and legs, rather than chestburster stage).
They're probably using the word 'serpents' to represent a metaphor or other symbology or other cultural significance. Serpents in ancient cultures represent many different things than what we would attribute to them today. An Alien's morphology, including limbs, may have nothing to do with the descriptor.
-Windebieste
Quote from: oduodu on Dec 16, 2015, 02:32:08 PM
Alien 3 had the best scene in the series . When ripley went looking for the alien and then found it : the way it climbed out and handled her.
Agreed. Although, there's a lot of scenes in A3 that are the best in the series. That film is definitely flawed, but there's still so many aspects and parts of that film that are brilliant.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Dec 17, 2015, 09:49:35 PMYeah, the dragon analogy in 'Alien 3' was something I liked.
Another scene I've always lamented the loss of is when Golic sees the Alien as though distorted by imaginary flames and heat after he gets a faceful of Boggs' blood, then later when it's in the fire after the explosion it's distorted in exactly the same way. It would've tied nicely into the Dragon thing, but they dropped it for some reason.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Dec 18, 2015, 08:41:14 AM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Dec 17, 2015, 09:49:35 PMYeah, the dragon analogy in 'Alien 3' was something I liked.
Another scene I've always lamented the loss of is when Golic sees the Alien as though distorted by imaginary flames and heat after he gets a faceful of Boggs' blood, then later when it's in the fire after the explosion it's distorted in exactly the same way. It would've tied nicely into the Dragon thing, but they dropped it for some reason.
God, that would've been badass.
@ Perfect-Organism - You're right. The lack of eyes is absolutely the creepiest aspects of the facehugger, chestburster, and adult 'alien' stage, as far as I'm concerned. And this was the case with Cameron's 'Queen' too.
...which is one of the main reasons that the 'Newborn' in Alien Resurrection was so ridiculous-looking. But I'll be removing the worst shots featuring it's eyes in my own planned re-edit of the movie, as it looks far more 'alien' and intimidating in the shots where it seems to only have dark eye-sockets with no eyes. I can't believe the makers added them in the first place, as the creature just left me cold with it's mournful, 'puppy-eyes'!
Quote from: BringbackJonesy! on Dec 18, 2015, 09:46:48 PM
@ Perfect-Organism - You're right. The lack of eyes is absolutely the creepiest aspects of the facehugger, chestburster, and adult 'alien' stage, as far as I'm concerned. And this was the case with Cameron's 'Queen' too.
...which is one of the main reasons that the 'Newborn' in Alien Resurrection was so ridiculous-looking. But I'll be removing the worst shots featuring it's eyes in my own planned re-edit of the movie, as it looks far more 'alien' and intimidating in the shots where it seems to only have dark eye-sockets with no eyes. I can't believe the makers added them in the first place, as the creature just left me cold with it's mournful, 'puppy-eyes'!
The eyes were the biggest problem with the Newborn IMO. But unfortunately it made sense with the story seeing as how Ripley needed to relate to it as though it were human. She would not have been capable of that connection if it had no eyes.
I must be the only person who doesn't mind the Newborn design. The character wasn't utilized properly at all, but I quite liked the messed-up design.
I liked the Newborn, too. I thought the puppy dog eyes were suitably unnerving.
The new born was ugly and creepy as hell. I don't think they could ever use it again without people bitching about how it sucked in A|R.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Dec 20, 2015, 10:20:28 AM
I must be the only person who doesn't mind the Newborn design. The character wasn't utilized properly at all, but I quite liked the messed-up design.
The new-born made sense in the context of the film. Even the design made sense. But I think most people will agree that the design fails to capture the elegance of Giger's seminal masterpiece.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Dec 20, 2015, 01:25:47 PMBut I think most people will agree that the design fails to capture the elegance of Giger's seminal masterpiece.
It wasn't meant to.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Dec 20, 2015, 07:45:50 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Dec 20, 2015, 01:25:47 PMBut I think most people will agree that the design fails to capture the elegance of Giger's seminal masterpiece.
It wasn't meant to.
I would argue that it served its purpose: a horrifying cross-breed of Xenomorph and Human. However, most folks, including myself, don't find it appealing the same way Giger's Alien is a horrifying alien creature bred from a human host. I liken it to being horrified versus terrified, or grossed out versus scared shitless.
Quote from: PRJ_since1990 on Dec 21, 2015, 02:53:27 AM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Dec 20, 2015, 07:45:50 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Dec 20, 2015, 01:25:47 PMBut I think most people will agree that the design fails to capture the elegance of Giger's seminal masterpiece.
It wasn't meant to.
I would argue that it served its purpose: a horrifying cross-breed of Xenomorph and Human. However, most folks, including myself, don't find it appealing the same way Giger's Alien is a horrifying alien creature bred from a human host. I liken it to being horrified versus terrified, or grossed out versus scared shitless.
Simply put, the newborn lacks a certain je ne c'est quois. It's just not a compelling monster. Something is missing.
I think you mean, "Je ne sais quoi."
The Newborn or "Oatmeal Alien" as I call it could've been cool had they gone with the design that was in Whedon's original script. It was much cooler and scarier I think that what we got. Oh well... ::)
I like the concept of the Newborn - and I'm sure many do! Just the design people aren't fond of. Personally I would have preferred something more akin to the Raven or the original Alien without the cowl.
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/11064859_861501840563923_8128088989394449130_n.jpg?oh=296a45f225b87f005ee0007540434233&oe=57127498)
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 21, 2015, 08:35:47 AM
I like the concept of the Newborn - and I'm sure many do! Just the design people aren't fond of. Personally I would have preferred something more akin to the Raven or the original Alien without the cowl.
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/11064859_861501840563923_8128088989394449130_n.jpg?oh=296a45f225b87f005ee0007540434233&oe=57127498)
This would have been perfect. Something tells me the "big boy" is going to be something classic as well as fresh.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 21, 2015, 08:35:47 AM
I like the concept of the Newborn - and I'm sure many do! Just the design people aren't fond of. Personally I would have preferred something more akin to the Raven or the original Alien without the cowl.
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/11064859_861501840563923_8128088989394449130_n.jpg?oh=296a45f225b87f005ee0007540434233&oe=57127498)
For me make that white and slightly translucent and that would have been a perfect Newborn
Quote from: Lord-Naraku on Dec 21, 2015, 07:55:03 AM
The Newborn or "Oatmeal Alien" as I call it could've been cool had they gone with the design that was in Whedon's original script. It was much cooler and scarier I think that what we got. Oh well... ::)
Are there any images of this original Whedon Newborn design?
Excellent news.Maybe now we can see the 'black egg on legs' stage.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Dec 21, 2015, 03:03:53 PM
Quote from: Lord-Naraku on Dec 21, 2015, 07:55:03 AM
The Newborn or "Oatmeal Alien" as I call it could've been cool had they gone with the design that was in Whedon's original script. It was much cooler and scarier I think that what we got. Oh well... ::)
Are there any images of this original Whedon Newborn design?
I vaguely remember some sort of artwork in the storyboards but I don't remember them ever doing the spider-style thing.
Here's a thread with some stuff in: http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=49640.0
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Dec 21, 2015, 03:03:53 PM
Quote from: Lord-Naraku on Dec 21, 2015, 07:55:03 AM
The Newborn or "Oatmeal Alien" as I call it could've been cool had they gone with the design that was in Whedon's original script. It was much cooler and scarier I think that what we got. Oh well... ::)
Are there any images of this original Whedon Newborn design?
Certainly hasn't been seen
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 22, 2015, 01:05:41 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Dec 21, 2015, 03:03:53 PM
Quote from: Lord-Naraku on Dec 21, 2015, 07:55:03 AM
The Newborn or "Oatmeal Alien" as I call it could've been cool had they gone with the design that was in Whedon's original script. It was much cooler and scarier I think that what we got. Oh well... ::)
Are there any images of this original Whedon Newborn design?
I vaguely remember some sort of artwork in the storyboards but I don't remember them ever doing the spider-style thing.
Here's a thread with some stuff in: http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=49640.0
Some of those pics were really cool to see. Thanks for the post.
I liked the new born to be honest. I found the humor and over the top feel was spot on to the feeling of the comics of the time.
No the jockeys size is fine. The only reason it looked so big in the original was the use of Scott's kids to scale it up...it was never intended on being elaborated on when it was first made. So they were concerned with how to make something that big be able to move and interact. They were plenty big enough in Prometheus.