Aliens: An Analysis

Started by Scorpio, Jan 27, 2018, 02:12:52 AM

Author
Aliens: An Analysis (Read 37,659 times)

SiL

SiL

#210
Quote from: Valaquen on May 28, 2023, 12:19:12 PMThere was no mastermind pointing to LV426 and waiting for the perfect moment to snatch up a sample of the Alien. No one in the Company knew what the Alien was, or that it was there. The idea was that these things are done automatically, and the crew left to the mercy of Mother and Ash, who take their orders to the extreme. Special Order 937 was probably coded into every ship and activated in special circumstances. The original scripts by Giler and Hill did have the Company create the Alien and try to activate a sample. Later drafts streamlined this, and shaved off some of the Company's responsibility. That's why we have this confusing situation where fans don't know what the Company wanted or what it was doing. O'Bannon himself was to have said, "You'd go crazy trying to figure out how the company set up the crew to discover the Alien" because it was always quite nebulous and changed throughout production many times.
In the final film there's evidence the crew was sent out intentionally, not as a side effect of automatic processes. The ship was redirected out of its way to intercept the transmission and Ash was planted shortly before leaving.

What's nebulous is what the company knew of the transmission and what, exactly, the crew was intended to collect - the Alien, or whoever made the transmission?

I'm glad they ditched the human derelict ship and storage containers. Jeez.

Local Trouble

Local Trouble

#211
Quote from: Valaquen on May 28, 2023, 12:19:12 PMIIRC, the film tells us Ripley put the location of the derelict in her report, which was made available to the ICC/Company inquest and the Marines (Gorman mentions the report). Ripley insisted the Company check out the co-ordinates and they ignore her.

The film doesn't even tell us that much.  Only the special edition mentions the "grid reference" and it's never explained how Burke got it.  It's our assumption that this information was obtained from the lifeboat's flight recorder, which would naturally have the coordinates of the Nostromo's landing location on LV-426.  That makes more sense to me than Ripley committing those coordinates to memory.

SiL

SiL

#212
The script has Ripley claim the recorder must have been tampered with when told it makes no mention of the Alien.

I'm not sure if they shot it but I imagine they cut it to not make Burke suspicious too early.

Local Trouble

Local Trouble

#213
Based purely on the film, I'd be surprised if the company had a chance to tamper with it anyway.  The ICC may have taken custody of it immediately after it was recovered.  In fact, it's entirely possible that the company wasn't even told that the planet the Nostromo landed on was, in fact, LV-426.  That would explain why Burke didn't tell Ripley about the colony prior to the inquest.  He and Ripley may have found out about it at the same time.

SiL

SiL

#214
Yeah I don't see how it would make sense for Burke or anyone in the Company to tamper with the recorder before the investigation. Usually when someone is found at sea they don't take them straight to their employer.

Removing the line was for the best all round.

Local Trouble

Local Trouble

#215
Law enforcement agencies generally don't make a habit of sharing physical evidence with those they're investigating.  Ripley made some pretty startling accusations of her own, so it's also possible that the company itself was being investigated by the ICC as well.

BlueMarsalis79

BlueMarsalis79

#216
Quote from: Valaquen on May 28, 2023, 12:19:12 PMThere was no mastermind pointing to LV426 and waiting for the perfect moment to snatch up a sample of the Alien. No one in the Company knew what the Alien was, or that it was there. The idea was that these things are done automatically, and the crew left to the mercy of Mother and Ash, who take their orders to the extreme. Special Order 937 was probably coded into every ship and activated in special circumstances. The original scripts by Giler and Hill did have the Company create the Alien and try to activate a sample. Later drafts streamlined this, and shaved off some of the Company's responsibility. That's why we have this confusing situation where fans don't know what the Company wanted or what it was doing. O'Bannon himself was to have said, "You'd go crazy trying to figure out how the company set up the crew to discover the Alien" because it was always quite nebulous and changed throughout production many times.

That's actually one respect in which I prefer The marketed "Director's Cut" because I like the idea of it being pure happenstance and every vessel under Weyland Corporation in that timeframe having a human passing android crew member.

Local Trouble

Local Trouble

#217
Unless the Nostromo was capable of near-instantaneous communication with the company when they were still ten months from Earth, Special Order 937 should have either been some pre-existing order (similar to Order 66 in Star Wars) or something that was transmitted to the Nostromo some weeks before Mother woke up the crew.

SiL

SiL

#218
Or was sent during their stop in Thedus.

Space is large and empty in Alien, they may well have been the only ship expected to go past in a reasonable time frame.

Local Trouble

Local Trouble

#219
Quote from: SiL on May 29, 2023, 08:06:14 AMOr was sent during their stop in Thedus.

I would consider that pre-existing too.  Either way, I highly doubt Ash sent a transmission to Earth to inform the company that they'd obtained an alien specimen, and then the company sent Special Order 937 back to the Nostromo in response to that news.  That would be one hell of a fast round-trip for FTL communication.

SiL

SiL

#220
Oh god no. I don't buy it being shit luck or triggered during the movie.

Valaquen

Valaquen

#221
Quote from: SiL on May 29, 2023, 02:15:17 AM
Quote from: Valaquen on May 28, 2023, 12:19:12 PMThere was no mastermind pointing to LV426 and waiting for the perfect moment to snatch up a sample of the Alien. No one in the Company knew what the Alien was, or that it was there. The idea was that these things are done automatically, and the crew left to the mercy of Mother and Ash, who take their orders to the extreme. Special Order 937 was probably coded into every ship and activated in special circumstances. The original scripts by Giler and Hill did have the Company create the Alien and try to activate a sample. Later drafts streamlined this, and shaved off some of the Company's responsibility. That's why we have this confusing situation where fans don't know what the Company wanted or what it was doing. O'Bannon himself was to have said, "You'd go crazy trying to figure out how the company set up the crew to discover the Alien" because it was always quite nebulous and changed throughout production many times.
In the final film there's evidence the crew was sent out intentionally, not as a side effect of automatic processes. The ship was redirected out of its way to intercept the transmission and Ash was planted shortly before leaving.

What's nebulous is what the company knew of the transmission and what, exactly, the crew was intended to collect - the Alien, or whoever made the transmission?

I'm glad they ditched the human derelict ship and storage containers. Jeez.

I suppose I was presenting Ridley's conception of the Company and the film's events, in which Ash's assignment to the Nostromo would have been done by computer (the entire crew component was done this way) as a reaction to finding the LV426 signal (Ridley suggested probes would have picked this up and beamed the message to Company computers, triggering the events of the film). The details probably don't all pan out - but they were never going to, considering behind the scenes stuff.

Which is why this is so confusing. Things were changed when certain people left the set. Then other things were improvised as the shoot went on. Then stuff was re-edited, lines taken out, other concepts elided. There really was no concrete plan. Ridley was adamant the Company was hands-off with the situation, and that the armadas of Company-ships would have had protocols installed in case of piracy, sabotage, mishap, etc. He didn't want a moustache-twirling villain. Giler and Hill stressed the corporate conspiracy angle and really wanted the Company involved in the Alien; they even had the SOS removed in many versions of their script in '78; instead, Ash damages the Nostromo, waking up the crew. O'Bannon rubbished all of that and removed as much of Giler and Hill's stuff as he could until his own removal from set in August '78 (he was replaced with Giler, who had his own ideas). In early versions Ash is there all along, in other drafts (and the film) he and Ripley are new.

Y'know, this is probably a weird strength of the film. It's kept people talking and debating details for decades. You could ask Hill, Scott etc their opinions now and they'd probably clash. Of course, everything I said above about Ridley's conception of the Company is not present in the movie, only behind the scenes stuff, so it can be disregarded entirely. It's a tricky thing. Another prequel will probably come out and show Ash cavorting with David in 2120 or something, who knows.

Necronomicon II

Necronomicon II

#222
I like the haziness to be honest, how much the company knows exactly about the organism itself, etc. Do all extraterrestrial organisms/specimens warrant such a priority where the crew is wholly expendable? Is that standard? Something seemed particularly special about this order though. "There is an explanation for this, you know."

Jonjamess

Jonjamess

#223
The Special Order Ash adheres to from MUTHUR is not a transmission from anyone at WY. The Nostromo makes no transmissions to anyone during the events of the movie.

The Special Order is literally a fail safe coded into obviously all WY ships for use in the RARE event an anomaly resulting in "valuable" cargo is encountered. Wether this be alien life or something else.

WY as a company furthermore had nothing to do with the events of Aliens, that was all on Burke. The movie makes it clear they don't believe Ripley. Whomever (at WY) knew of any of the events in Alien, if anyone at all, has obviously passed on by the events of Aliens or has chosen to keep the information entirely classified.

ralfy

ralfy

#224
Quote from: Jonjamess on May 29, 2023, 07:35:11 PMThe Special Order Ash adheres to from MUTHUR is not a transmission from anyone at WY. The Nostromo makes no transmissions to anyone during the events of the movie.

The Special Order is literally a fail safe coded into obviously all WY ships for use in the RARE event an anomaly resulting in "valuable" cargo is encountered. Wether this be alien life or something else.

WY as a company furthermore had nothing to do with the events of Aliens, that was all on Burke. The movie makes it clear they don't believe Ripley. Whomever (at WY) knew of any of the events in Alien, if anyone at all, has obviously passed on by the events of Aliens or has chosen to keep the information entirely classified.

Indeed, it was very likely already programmed in the computer long before, and known by company assets like Ash.

If they wanted to keep things classified, then that means that Burke didn't act alone, they obviously want to show Ripley that she's lying, and would use Burke as a front.

All of these were discussed previously, together with Ripley's odd behavior, e.g, she knows about the alien ship location, together with Burke and the rest of the board, but doesn't raise it during the inquiry, and then she's asked by Burke to join an armed mission even though it's supposed to be involving an downed transmitted, and could have raised that to the board as part of an appeal (which is valid given such proceedings).

She probably needed a good lawyer, who would have informed her (she was gone for five decades or so) at least about the existence of the colony and reminded her of the alien ship location in the lifeboat logs (where else would have Burke gotten the info?); never mind "Arcturians" if that was classified, if not units that are trained to go on "bug hunts".




Quote from: Necronomicon II on May 29, 2023, 01:01:09 PMI like the haziness to be honest, how much the company knows exactly about the organism itself, etc. Do all extraterrestrial organisms/specimens warrant such a priority where the crew is wholly expendable? Is that standard? Something seemed particularly special about this order though. "There is an explanation for this, you know."

From what I remember, there are two parts to it:

The crew was told that they had to investigate the phenomenon or else they lose benefits, etc. On the other hand, if they do, they were assured of a percentage of what is earned when it is monetized. If I'm not mistaken, this was in their contracts. Meanwhile, I think the contracts also required them to help those in distress, and what was involved in this case appeared to be a distress signal. I don't know what financial benefits they get from rescuing others, but I'm guessing none.

The other part is what they didn't know but for company eyes only, i.e., the crew was considered expendable.

In addition, Burke points out in the second movie that the company has a bio-weapons division. If we add that to the commonsensical point that companies believe that they can profit from not only organisms but also what might be advanced technology, and that the military can gain from both, then the following become clear:

If there's something that can be monetized, then exploit it. If the company can potentially earn more even by considering the crew expendable, then do that as well. It's similar to what's happening in some companies and governments today.

The crew was aware of this because the need to investigate distress signals, etc., was in their contracts. (Maybe it's even a government requirement.) At the same time, some of them complained and implied that if there was nothing there or it was discovered that nothing is monetizable, then they gain nothing. If it involved people who needed to be rescued, then they didn't sign up to rescue others, and such investigation would only lengthen their trip. Meanwhile, it didn't bother them that they had a lifeboat that couldn't take all of them.

Everyone gets a cut not only because they're working for a company but also because they wouldn't have the means to exploit what was found due to lack of resources. That together with the points above and earlier ones show that Burke couldn't have acted alone.

Given such, I'd say that was was shared in the films mirror circumstances today: companies firing people only because it increases their profit margin, governments seeing their own personnel, or citizens, or people of other countries, expendable for strategic gain, companies and governments exploiting technology for monetization and weaponization as part of a military industrial complex, and so on.





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