Post reply

The message has the following error or errors that must be corrected before continuing:
Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.
Note: this post will not display until it has been approved by a moderator.
Other options
Shortcuts: ALT+S post or ALT+P preview

Topic summary

Posted by Mr. Clemens
 - Sep 01, 2017, 10:22:37 PM
Just saw T2 3D last night. Very enjoyable. I'd forgotten what a thoroughly entertaining film it is. Big audience genuinely laughed in all the right places, too. I think Cameron's made some digital tweaks (a la Aliens) for this version: I recall the driver in some of the bike stunts looking not terribly like Arnold, and that's changed. I also recall the composite shot of Arnold rolling toward the camera away from the crashing cryo truck looking pretty dodgy, but it's much more seamless now.

Anyway, highly recommended, and I can't wait to buy it on blu-ray. I hope Cameron gets to give Aliens the 3D treatment - that shot of Gateway Station would be glorious.
Posted by Jonesy1974
 - Aug 27, 2017, 09:39:15 PM
Quote from: Hamster1066 on Aug 27, 2017, 08:12:26 PM
Gladiator was certainly more of a risk that T2. Cameron was already famous for expensive epic (bloat) and state of the art special FX thanks to The Abyss. Arnie was at the height of his popularity. The Terminator had been rediscovered and re-evaluated in the wake of Aliens. It could be considered a risk because of it's expense but it had a lot going for it.

Sword and sandal epics had been out of fashion for more than thirty years and Crowe was only really known for a supporting role in LA Confidential IIRC.

Personally I find the story in Gladiator a lot less simplistic than the framing fantasy fitted around Titanic. Titanic is full of faults, but it has spectacle. Likewise with Avatar. Gladiator also has spectacle but as a revenge story with interesting motivated characters it is pitch perfect. I guess it is all down to personal taste.

Yeah I agree with you. Gladiator is a simple story when you break it down but the characters and motivations elevate it far above a simple revenge tale.

And it was definatley regarded as a huge risk at the time.
Posted by PierreVW
 - Aug 27, 2017, 08:23:40 PM
Quote from: Hamster1066 on Aug 27, 2017, 08:12:26 PM
Gladiator was certainly more of a risk that T2. Cameron was already famous for expensive epic (bloat) and state of the art special FX thanks to The Abyss. Arnie was at the height of his popularity. The Terminator had been rediscovered and re-evaluated in the wake of Aliens. It could be considered a risk because of it's expense but it had a lot going for it.

Sword and sandal epics had been out of fashion for more than thirty years and Crowe was only really known for a supporting role a LA Confidential IIRC.

Personally I find the story in Gladiator a lot less simplistic than the framing fantasy fitted around Titanic. Titanic is full of faults, but it has spectacle. Likewise with Avatar. Gladiator also has spectacle but as a revenge story with interesting motivated characters it is pitch perfect. I guess it is all down to personal taste.

I agree 100%.

But like you said, it is all down to personal taste.

I love GLADIATOR and THE MARTIAN. I hate Titanic and Avatar.
Posted by Hamster1066
 - Aug 27, 2017, 08:12:26 PM
Gladiator was certainly more of a risk than Terminator 2. Cameron was already famous for expensive epic (bloat) and state of the art special FX thanks to The Abyss. Arnie was at the height of his popularity. The Terminator had been rediscovered and re-evaluated in the wake of Aliens. It could be considered a risk because of it's expense but it had a lot going for it.

Sword and sandal epics had been out of fashion for more than thirty years and Crowe was only really known for a supporting role in LA Confidential IIRC.

Personally I find the story in Gladiator a lot less simplistic than the framing fantasy fitted around Titanic. Titanic is full of faults, but it has spectacle. Likewise with Avatar. Gladiator also has spectacle but as a revenge story with interesting motivated characters it is pitch perfect. I guess it is all down to personal taste.
Posted by Mr. Clemens
 - Aug 27, 2017, 06:25:14 PM
Having just read the last 10-or-so pages of this thread, I feel the need to jump in and say that people accusing Cameron of telling simplistic stories probably shouldn't be pointing to Gladiator as 'what a movie oughta be'...  :D
Posted by SM
 - Aug 26, 2017, 10:32:35 PM
The 'used universe' look of the colony was down to Cobb, who also did the Nostromo and owes debts to Star Wars and Dark Star.
Posted by Hamster1066
 - Aug 26, 2017, 09:17:32 PM
Except that Aliens was styled after Alien, and a bit of Blade Runner.

It's clear to see that Scott was greatly influenced by Kubrick. It's also clear to see Cameron was greatly influenced by Scott.
Posted by Paranoid Android
 - Aug 26, 2017, 08:00:31 PM
Quote from: PierreVW on Aug 26, 2017, 07:18:16 PM
Quote from: SiL on Aug 26, 2017, 01:03:53 PM
Quote from: Hide on Aug 26, 2017, 12:57:21 PM
Sure aliens is a great movie, but it  hasn't the great artistry that alien has.
And yet it's basically defined the look of an entire genre for 30 years. Every sci-fi action series since has drawn heavily from the art and design of Aliens.

That's a lie.

BLADE RUNNER and STAR WARS are far more copied and admired than any Cameron movie.
How are Blade Runner and Star Wars even relevant in an Alien vs Aliens discussion?

As for what SiL said about Aliens, he's absolutely right. Out of the two films, Aliens was the one that everybody copied to death. Here's a nice video to sum it up solely in the realm of video games:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYtQmayyDLA
Posted by PierreVW
 - Aug 26, 2017, 07:18:16 PM
Quote from: Highland on Aug 26, 2017, 03:31:22 AM
Quote from: PierreVW on Aug 26, 2017, 01:06:51 AM
Quote from: Highland on Aug 26, 2017, 12:02:55 AM
Quote from: PierreVW on Aug 25, 2017, 10:22:41 PM
I disagree.

James Cameron is Michael Bay with the Biggest Budgets of All Time.

Ridley Scott is Better. He is like Steven Spielberg. Both of them made ALL kinds of Films and in ALL Genres.

Nah, there's only one Spielberg.

I think Scott is better than Spielberg. But back to the topic, I mean it in the sense that both of them made small, dramas, big, thrillers, War, Suspense, Action, all kinds of genres, etc....

For example: both of them are releasing their new dramas this December in time for Oscars.

What does better mean.

If I'm on a desert island and have to pick a Directors catalogue, I'm taking Spielberg's after about 2 seconds of thought. That's even with Scott having two of my all time favourites.

To each their own.

Spielberg is too sappy and too melodramatic for my tastes.


Quote from: SiL on Aug 26, 2017, 01:03:53 PM
Quote from: Hide on Aug 26, 2017, 12:57:21 PM
Sure aliens is a great movie, but it  hasn't the great artistry that alien has.
And yet it's basically defined the look of an entire genre for 30 years. Every sci-fi action series since has drawn heavily from the art and design of Aliens.

That's a lie.

BLADE RUNNER and STAR WARS are far more copied and admired than any Cameron movie.
Posted by Jonesy1974
 - Aug 26, 2017, 04:15:16 PM
Quote from: Alionic on Aug 26, 2017, 03:55:47 PM
Quote from: Hide on Aug 26, 2017, 12:57:21 PM
For me Aliens isn't on par with Alien.

Alien is a masterpiece. It is up there with the great classics.

Sure aliens is a great movie, but it  hasn't the great artistry that alien has.

Good lord, I find myself agreeing with a Hide post here.

:D only the first part though, then he descends into meaningless nonsense again!

Cameron, Scott, spielberg are all great, legends who have made classic, timeless films.
Ridley's style is my personal favourite out of the three but Spielberg is the daddy. Neither Scott or Cameron's filmography stands up against his as a whole.
Posted by XenoHunter99
 - Aug 26, 2017, 04:07:13 PM
Prometheus and Covenant also have too many groaner moments and seem to feature smart people doing stupid things (Prometheus) or people who are not that bright to begin with doing stupid things (Covenant) . Plus, both movies have a plethora of one-dimensional/underdeveloped characters.  While one could argue the characters in Alien and Aliens are also sketches, the writing is better so that the characters come across as relatable and more believable, eliciting more investment from the audience. There is evidence to support Hide's position that Prometheus and Covenant are inferior movies It seems to me, the people most pleased with the prequels are invested in/buy into the David character and keenly interested in the mythological subtext. But like Aliens with Ripley, I would say Covenant features too much android. Covenant pushes the whole thing to the point that the human characters and the aliens don't matter at all. It's just a tale of the android with maybe a theme of deranged android vs angry engineers for the next one.Seen that way, the franchise as it was originally presented is ended. Certainly, Scott seems done with it. The prequel series could indeed continue from its current position and head off in its own direction without ever meeting up with the older movies.
Posted by Alionic
 - Aug 26, 2017, 03:55:47 PM
Quote from: Hide on Aug 26, 2017, 12:57:21 PM
For me Aliens isn't on par with Alien.

Alien is a masterpiece. It is up there with the great classics.

Sure aliens is a great movie, but it  hasn't the great artistry that alien has.

Good lord, I find myself agreeing with a Hide post here.
Posted by tleilaxu
 - Aug 26, 2017, 03:35:03 PM
Quote from: Hide on Aug 26, 2017, 12:57:21 PM
For me Aliens isn't on par with Alien.

Alien is a masterpiece. It is up there with the great classics.

Sure aliens is a great movie, but it  hasn't the great artistry that alien has.

But, Cameron hasn't directed a bad movie for about 30 years, the man knows how to tell a story.

And even if the story isn't that great or has been told before, like Avatar, he knows how to deliver a thrilling ride. He knows what works for the audience and what doesn't. He is a scientist of movie filmmaking.

Ridley has a lot more bad movies and failures than great one's, it's like he doesn't knows what he is doing all the time and works on a whim.

Prometheus and Alien Covenant are bad movies with great ideas.
They have problems that could have been very easily been fixed by an average director.

I don't know how Ridley managed to make a movie as bad as Covenant, maybe he was his intention to end the franchise. Who knows...
Are you a fan of X-Japan by chance?
Posted by ChrisPachi
 - Aug 26, 2017, 02:13:31 PM
Quote from: Rudiger on Aug 26, 2017, 06:40:14 AM
I think it's safe to say that this thread is now knee deep in "my dad's bigger than your dad" territory.

Posted by Hamster1066
 - Aug 26, 2017, 01:25:39 PM
Quote from: Hide on Aug 26, 2017, 12:57:21 PM
For me Aliens isn't on par with Alien.

Alien is a masterpiece. It is up there with the great classics.

Sure aliens is a great movie, but it  hasn't the great artistry that alien has.

But, Cameron hasn't directed a bad movie for about 30 years, the man knows how to tell a story.

And even if the story isn't that great or has been told before, like Avatar, he knows how to deliver a thrilling ride. He knows what works for the audience and what doesn't. He is a scientist of movie filmmaking.

Ridley has a lot more bad movies and failures than great one's, it's like he doesn't knows what he is doing all the time and works on a whim.

Prometheus and Alien Covenant are bad movies with great ideas.
They have problems that could have been very easily been fixed by an average director.

I don't know how Ridley managed to make a movie as bad as Covenant, maybe he was his intention to end the franchise. Who knows...


I don't think Ridlay has any bad movies except maybe GI Jane. He has a few films in genres I'm less interested in, but that doesn't make them bad movies. I think Scott has a better hit rate in terms of quality over Cameron. But that's my personal taste. I think that maybe you need to accept that Scott isn't your sort of film maker, I don't want to make assumptions on your behalf but perhaps it's just science fiction (of a certain type) that's your bag?
AvPGalaxy: About | Contact | Cookie Policy | Manage Cookie Settings | Privacy Policy | Legal Info
Facebook Twitter Instagram YouTube Patreon RSS Feed
Contact: General Queries | Submit News