AvPGalaxy Forums

Hopefully we are going to meet the good old Jockey  once again  if there will be a third movie.   

Checking the below photo

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.star-telegram.com%2Fentertainment%2Farts-culture%2Fuf5hx4%2Fpicture22188873%2Falternates%2FFREE_1140%2FAlien&hash=049e178fb8d13077b499bacfe2d2473b46cda9a1)

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftumbaabierta.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F04%2Ftumbaabierta_alien_8_pasajero_space_jockey.jpg&hash=4e4a8d5ee1255731e818ba6f7be41944e0b8a0e6)


The guy is huge. I don't think its an engineer nor David, as some has predicted .Is it another species ? The ones above the engineers? Is that his outfit or his skin ?

The engineers are a retcon of the space jockey. If it's going to be anything other than that, I'd want the jockey to be inseparable from the ship (as was frequently depicted in Giger's artwork.)

Just a really tall engineer, probably.
(Or it's David after he does experiments on himself. who knows.)


Ridley wanted the engineers to be THAT big in Prometheus.
but with the rewrites on that project, the Engineer started having a bigger part in the story
so Ridley "scaled him down" so that the character could be played believably by a man in a suit.

And dont forget the backpack, its not a chair its a huge backpack!!

Hopefully we get some engineers close to that size in the next one.

Depends on what picture you use though, when its not a child in a suit and actually the actor, the size difference isn't so big.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstarsmedia.ign.com%2Fstars%2Fimage%2Farticle%2F843%2F843439%2Fspace-jockey-alien-4_1199392793.jpg&hash=f4bbd8e46670ee68aff4d21682365f95448d304b)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alien-covenant.com%2Faliencovenant_uploads%2FPROMETHEUS_FUEL_VFX_03.jpg&hash=2341af41ae00561359e36c66476c11163a360570)

It's either an Engineer or a human or a result of David's tinkering in that suit. It's not an alien thing and it's not going back to that, ever, unless someone retcons it back in the future.

Quote from: Omegamorph on Jun 26, 2017, 09:13:04 PM
It's not an alien thing and it's not going back to that, ever, unless someone retcons it back in the future.

We were the aliens all along, bro.
We were the aliens.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fprod-cdn-history-co-uk.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fs3fs-public%2Fancient-aliens-1_0.png%3FDYrB0fPbawx2qOasDBBORdvE9IEo05mL&hash=028f7b74fb17a54327bd3a501db3bdbe26e107df)

The engineers are still big, The makers have stated that they stand at 9 feet. Some scenes in Prometheus he looks this big and others he looks smaller to me. I don't have a problem with their size really. :)

The thing in the chair looks more like 15 feet tall and it clearly has an animal-looking face.

David asks who created the engineers in the opening of Covenant.  Maybe this was a hint...

I think it would be cool to have a 15-foot, elephant-faced creature show up and have some engineers in the scene bow down to it.

This would reveal that this 15-foot species created the engineers and the engineer space suits are just modeled after them.

 I really think it was the way intent that the Jockey was a giant ancient being,as were the eggs and The Alien.

it will be hard to do that if David is now the creator of the Alien.The original Alien was more about  a nighmarish creature and it's mystery.

The sequel did away with the alien nature of it and made it more like a firmiliar ant hive.


For the prequels they had to reinvent the whole franchise to keep it fresh,now deling with creating and religion instead..
So they had to obviously rethink a few things from the past to make this somehow work.

But i think it can work.
The jockey was not a fossil ,more of a mummy .
Fossils are mineralized remnants of organic beings ,mummies are the preserved remnants of them.
I think they chose to go this route,More mummy than fossil.

When David bombed the city,the inhabitants were mummified ,just like the ones in Prometheus.
You would imagine the bio suits would be a defense against the goo,but both the suited up jockeys and the ones in robes were  mummified.
The Alien jockey and the ones in The Prometheus installation were both petrified,and had holes in their chests.(dont remember if the Paradise ones had the holes) So it would be safe to say a similar thing happened to them.(contact with the pathogen?)
So its not that hard to imagine that they are the same beings and had similar ends.
And as for the size,well they can genetically modify life ,why not themselves?
And why cant they vary in size naturally as humans can?

All in all,i dont is think its a huge deal about the size ,when everything else somewhat matches up.

The Space Jockey in Alien was a good 15ft tall, and clearly wasn't a white albino guy in a suit. Pretty sure Ridley would like us to ignore that though... :)

Engineer.

This is the thing for me, I can buy into Scotts engineer in a suit idea but that thing in Alien and the one in Prometheus look different. Like bone vs metal, different.

Another thing, we don't even know if the space jockey in Alien even has legs; it could be space tentacles under there.

Quote from: Rankles75 on Jun 26, 2017, 11:11:23 PM
The Space Jockey in Alien was a good 15ft tall

Quote from: 426Buddy on Jun 26, 2017, 06:08:46 PM
Depends on what picture you use though, when its not a child in a suit and its actually the actor with the jockey, the size difference isn't so big.

http://starsmedia.ign.com/stars/image/article/843/843439/space-jockey-alien-4_1199392793.jpg
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alien-covenant.com%2Faliencovenant_uploads%2FPROMETHEUS_FUEL_VFX_03.jpg&hash=2341af41ae00561359e36c66476c11163a360570)

He big af fam

(https://i2.wp.com/monsterlegacy.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/spacejockeysculptinside.jpg)
(https://i0.wp.com/monsterlegacy.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/spacejockeyside_big.jpg)

So what are we thinking actual sizes are here then? 14-15ft with child actors i hear, maybe 12-13ft with adult actors  and 9-10ft in prometheus?

I guess the actual size of the original Jockey is a problem since there's a continuity goof, but I guess the intention to show its size with the children overrides that ie it was purposedly shot with the actual actors only in close-ups. I'd say somewhere in the 15 feet range

the Engineers in Prometheus are clearly not beyond 8 ft

Engineer.  Not a retcon.

This was always going to be a problem once resolved.  Deal with it.

Engineer. 

It's not the same character.

If the Space Jockey and the Engineer seen in 'PROMETHEUS' were the same character, there would be an issue.  As they are not, any argument about size is completely disqualified.

It's not the same spacecraft. 

The vehicle we see in 'ALIEN' is left out in the open, corroded and eroded.  The pilot has been dead for anywhere between 10 months to 10,000 years.  We don't know.  The Juggernaut in 'PROMETHEUS' was a secure vehicle unlaunched and garaged in a hanger against the elements.  Very different conditions apply here.  Just leave your car outside in a car park for 10 years and compare it one that's been warehoused in a garage. 

Besides, what's to stop the Engineers from upgrading their space faring technology?  We've gone from steam to electric and diesel and trains still look much alike as they did when first invented.  Ships... cars...  tech changes but function defines form.

Finally, they engineered us, right:

(https://i.amz.mshcdn.com/ybGlBmc2a3rk4H9FsZcAUMhNXHk=/fit-in/850x850/http%3A%2F%2Fmashable.com%2Fwp-content%2Fgallery%2Ftallest-and-shortest-man%2Ftallest-and-shortest-people-03.jpg)

So why can't the Engineers have extreme differences in sizes too..?  Answer that one, Ding-dong* :P

-Windebieste.


*That is, anyone who has proof the Engineers only come in one size and flavor.

or much more simply, it's creative license... the same way Fincher used the cryotubes from Alien instead of the ones from Aliens on the Sulaco, etc

Quote from: Omegamorph on Jun 27, 2017, 12:04:17 AMI guess the actual size of the original Jockey is a problem since there's a continuity goof...

I would point out an acquired continuity goof in the design of the chair....

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=58049.0;attach=8118;image)

Dumb joke is dumb.

Grumpy grumps.

If the space jockey turns out to be David I'm gonna riot. And laugh my ass off.

You'll be joined by most of the Community if  that event transpires.  I doubt that's where it's all heading. 

...but we don't know yet.  So keep yer ass nailed securely in place just in case, I say.

-Windebieste.

Yep! Let's just hope for the best. At this point I'd be fine with it just being an engineer. But a human or an android? Nope.

Quote from: SM on Jun 27, 2017, 12:45:49 AM
Dumb joke is dumb.

The jokes not dumb, those stubby little arms is the joke.

If the Engineer stretched his arms out the same way the Jockey has he could reach the sticks.

If there were any sticks to reach.

Different ship.  Dumb joke.

Quote from: SM on Jun 27, 2017, 01:50:15 AM
If the Engineer stretched his arms out the same way the Jockey has he could reach the sticks.

If there were any sticks to reach.

Different ship.  Dumb joke.

Everything comes out of the ship to join up with the Jockey suit... why can't the "handles" do the same thing. One size fits all?

Different ship, different jockey. Now we just gotta wait for the punchline.

QuoteOne size fits all?

I don't know.  Does it?

Quote from: windebieste on Jun 27, 2017, 12:08:38 AM
Engineer.  Not a retcon.

This was always going to be a problem once resolved.  Deal with it.

Engineer. 

It's not the same character.

If the Space Jockey and the Engineer seen in 'PROMETHEUS' were the same character, there would be an issue.  As they are not, any argument about size is completely disqualified.

It's not the same spacecraft. 

The vehicle we see in 'ALIEN' is left out in the open, corroded and eroded.  The pilot has been dead for anywhere between 10 months to 10,000 years.  We don't know.  The Juggernaut in 'PROMETHEUS' was a secure vehicle unlaunched and garaged in a hanger against the elements.  Very different conditions apply here.  Just leave your car outside in a car park for 10 years and compare it one that's been warehoused in a garage. 

Besides, what's to stop the Engineers from upgrading their space faring technology?  We've gone from steam to electric and diesel and trains still look much alike as they did when first invented.  Ships... cars...  tech changes but function defines form.

Finally, they engineered us, right:

(https://i.amz.mshcdn.com/ybGlBmc2a3rk4H9FsZcAUMhNXHk=/fit-in/850x850/http%3A%2F%2Fmashable.com%2Fwp-content%2Fgallery%2Ftallest-and-shortest-man%2Ftallest-and-shortest-people-03.jpg)

So why can't the Engineers have extreme differences in sizes too..?  Answer that one, Ding-dong* :P

-Windebieste.


*That is, anyone who has proof the Engineers only come in one size and flavor.

There are at least 4 species of Engineers.   The Pilot/Space Jockey, the Engineers seen at the beginning of Prometheus, the biomech Engineers and the Engineers in Alien Covenant.  It's like the different species of hominids/humans (aka Neanderthals, Erectus, Sapiens, etc).

Quote from: SM on Jun 27, 2017, 02:07:12 AM

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette1.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fabsolutehorror%2Fimages%2Fa%2Fa1%2FChristie.jpg%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20120921170815&hash=f5122273f9eddbae4fb47be6703884e9d6b5cf8e)
"Same shit."

QuoteOne size fits all?

I don't know.  Does it?

Still waiting that for the punch line. However that black goo surely seems to be a one size fits all to something.

Non-the-less, the joke was funny then and it is funny now. Silly space jockey.

I don't have the faintest idea what you're going on about.

Prometheus: God (Space Jockey). Titans (Engineers). Humans (Humans). Eagle (Xenomorph).

Charlie: "Because they made us"
Elizabeth: "And who made them?"
Charlie: "Well exactly. We'll never know."

The Engineers rebelled against the Space Jockey in Paradise and stole the fire of creation (the black goo). Now at war with the SJ, they fled to LV-223 and attempted to reverse engineer a superweapon (just like all their other tech) in order to fight on equal ground with the SJ. That weapon is the Xeno (as seen in the mural), the perfect organism. They tried and tried to create the SJ Xeno but couldn't quite get it right. Their efforts destroyed them. Think about it this way: if a nation was using an advanced weapon against you then you would want to figure out how it works and develop your own.

Later, David arrives at Paradise and wipes-out the "Engineers" living there. They are the ones that didn't rebel against their God. They are smaller, unmodified, and primitive. They inhabit only this city as it is an Eden. They gathered in the court with the expectation of the arrival of their God, the SJ, as normal (hence scorpion docking ship). David manages to reverse engineer a version of the SJ Xeno much closer than what the Engineers achieved. It still doesn't have the biomechnaical elements but it's close. David is very proud of "his" creation. David obtains the 2000 colonist embryos and heads back to LV-223 for more of the black goo in order to conduct his experiments. He is trying to get closer to the SJ Xeno.

Alien - Awakening: The SJ returns to Paradise to find it in ruins. It manages to deduce the cause and pursue David back to LV-223. Earth also sends a dispatchment of Colonial Marines and Company investigators. Cue almighty clash between David's creations and the Colonial Marines. SJ turns up later (as the "big reveal") and curb stomps them all. The SJ takes the remaining eggs that David has formed, adds it's own touch and then heads off towards Earth. David/human hero/Deacon (did you forget about it) turns up to sabotage the SJ. It crashes on the nearby moon LV-426. Cut to decades later. We see Ash assigned to the Nostromo. Mission: "Top Secret - Science Officer's Eyes Only...Bring back life form. Priority One. All other considerations secondary. Crew expendable".

The End.

Everybody wins.

Plot holes closed:

• The mural.
• The confusion of the Fifield mutant, Deacon, Neomorph, Protomorph and their connection to the classic Xeno.
• The size difference between Prometheus "SJ" and Alien SJ.
• Aesthetic and size differences between Engineer spacecraft in Prometheus and the derelict in Alien.
• Tightens the prequels relationship to the Prometheus mythology (God, Titans, Man, punishing Eagle).
• David "creating" the Xeno.
• Narrative reason for LV-223 being a sister moon of LV-426.

The Space Jockey is the Nephilim of the Engineer species.

Please don't compare Alien to Diablo 3. I hate the lore in that game.

Bible totes ripped off Diablo 3.

Quote from: justind on Jun 27, 2017, 04:14:12 AM
Prometheus: God (Space Jockey). Titans (Engineers). Humans (Humans). Eagle (Xenomorph).

Charlie: "Because they made us"
Elizabeth: "And who made them?"
Charlie: "Well exactly. We'll never know."

The Engineers rebelled against the Space Jockey in Paradise and stole the fire of creation (the black goo). Now at war with the SJ, they fled from LV-223 to create a weapon to use in the fight, something that already exists but they need to reverse engineer it (just like they did with all their other tech). They tried and tried to create the SJ Xeno (as seen in the mural) but couldn't quite get it right. Their efforts destroyed them. Think about it this way: if a nation was using an advanced weapon against you then you would want to figure out how it works and develop your own.

Later, David arrives at Paradise and wipes-out the "Engineers" living there. They are the ones that didn't rebel against their God. They are smaller, unmodified, and primitive. They inhabit only this city as it is an Eden. They gathered in the court with the expectation of the arrival of their God, the SJ, as normal (hence scorpion docking ship). David manages to reverse engineer a version of the SJ Xeno much closer than what the Engineers achieved. It still doesn't have the biomechnaical elements but it's close. David is very proud of "his" creation. David obtains the 2000 colonist embryos and heads back to LV-223 for more of the black goo in order to conduct his experiments. He is trying to get closer to the perfect organism, the SJ Xeno.

Alien - Awakening: The SJ returns to Paradise to find it in ruins. It manages to deduce the cause and pursue David back to LV-223. Earth also sends a dispatchment of Colonial Marines and Company investigators. Cue almighty clash between David's creations and the Colonial Marines. SJ turns up later (as the "big reveal") and curb stomps them all. The SJ takes the remaining eggs that David has formed, adds it's own touch and then heads off towards Earth. David/human hero/Deacon (did you forget about it) turns up to sabotage the SJ. It crashes on the nearby moon LV-426. Cut to decades later. We see Ash assigned to the Nostromo. Mission: "Top Secret - Science Officer's Eyes Only...Bring back life form. Priority One. All other considerations secondary. Crew expendable".

The End.

Everybody wins.

Plot holes closed:

• The mural.
• The confusion of the Fifield mutant, Deacon, Neomorph, Protomorph and their connection to the classic Xeno.
• The size difference between Prometheus "SJ" and Alien SJ.
• Aesthetic and size differences between Prometheus spacecraft and Alien derelict.
• Tightens the prequels relationship to the Prometheus mythology (God, Titans, Man, punishing Eagle).
• David "creating" the Xeno.
• Narrative reason for LV-223 being in a sister moon of LV-426.

Holy shit, this makes sense!

Please initiate a sexual relationship with Ridley as soon as possible and guide the next script!

Quote from: justind on Jun 27, 2017, 04:14:12 AM
Prometheus: God (Space Jockey). Titans (Engineers). Humans (Humans). Eagle (Xenomorph).

Charlie: "Because they made us"
Elizabeth: "And who made them?"
Charlie: "Well exactly. We'll never know."

The Engineers rebelled against the Space Jockey in Paradise and stole the fire of creation (the black goo). Now at war with the SJ, they fled from LV-223 to create a weapon to use in the fight, something that already exists but they need to reverse engineer it (just like they did with all their other tech). They tried and tried to create the SJ Xeno (as seen in the mural) but couldn't quite get it right. Their efforts destroyed them. Think about it this way: if a nation was using an advanced weapon against you then you would want to figure out how it works and develop your own.

Later, David arrives at Paradise and wipes-out the "Engineers" living there. They are the ones that didn't rebel against their God. They are smaller, unmodified, and primitive. They inhabit only this city as it is an Eden. They gathered in the court with the expectation of the arrival of their God, the SJ, as normal (hence scorpion docking ship). David manages to reverse engineer a version of the SJ Xeno much closer than what the Engineers achieved. It still doesn't have the biomechnaical elements but it's close. David is very proud of "his" creation. David obtains the 2000 colonist embryos and heads back to LV-223 for more of the black goo in order to conduct his experiments. He is trying to get closer to the perfect organism, the SJ Xeno.

Alien - Awakening: The SJ returns to Paradise to find it in ruins. It manages to deduce the cause and pursue David back to LV-223. Earth also sends a dispatchment of Colonial Marines and Company investigators. Cue almighty clash between David's creations and the Colonial Marines. SJ turns up later (as the "big reveal") and curb stomps them all. The SJ takes the remaining eggs that David has formed, adds it's own touch and then heads off towards Earth. David/human hero/Deacon (did you forget about it) turns up to sabotage the SJ. It crashes on the nearby moon LV-426. Cut to decades later. We see Ash assigned to the Nostromo. Mission: "Top Secret - Science Officer's Eyes Only...Bring back life form. Priority One. All other considerations secondary. Crew expendable".

The End.

Everybody wins.

Plot holes closed:

• The mural.
• The confusion of the Fifield mutant, Deacon, Neomorph, Protomorph and their connection to the classic Xeno.
• The size difference between Prometheus "SJ" and Alien SJ.
• Aesthetic and size differences between Prometheus spacecraft and Alien derelict.
• Tightens the prequels relationship to the Prometheus mythology (God, Titans, Man, punishing Eagle).
• David "creating" the Xeno.
• Narrative reason for LV-223 being in a sister moon of LV-426.

I can dig it.

Quote from: justind on Jun 27, 2017, 04:14:12 AM
Prometheus: God (Space Jockey). Titans (Engineers). Humans (Humans). Eagle (Xenomorph).

Charlie: "Because they made us"
Elizabeth: "And who made them?"
Charlie: "Well exactly. We'll never know."

The Engineers rebelled against the Space Jockey in Paradise and stole the fire of creation (the black goo). Now at war with the SJ, they fled from LV-223 to create a weapon to use in the fight, something that already exists but they need to reverse engineer it (just like they did with all their other tech). They tried and tried to create the SJ Xeno (as seen in the mural) but couldn't quite get it right. Their efforts destroyed them. Think about it this way: if a nation was using an advanced weapon against you then you would want to figure out how it works and develop your own.

Later, David arrives at Paradise and wipes-out the "Engineers" living there. They are the ones that didn't rebel against their God. They are smaller, unmodified, and primitive. They inhabit only this city as it is an Eden. They gathered in the court with the expectation of the arrival of their God, the SJ, as normal (hence scorpion docking ship). David manages to reverse engineer a version of the SJ Xeno much closer than what the Engineers achieved. It still doesn't have the biomechnaical elements but it's close. David is very proud of "his" creation. David obtains the 2000 colonist embryos and heads back to LV-223 for more of the black goo in order to conduct his experiments. He is trying to get closer to the perfect organism, the SJ Xeno.

Alien - Awakening: The SJ returns to Paradise to find it in ruins. It manages to deduce the cause and pursue David back to LV-223. Earth also sends a dispatchment of Colonial Marines and Company investigators. Cue almighty clash between David's creations and the Colonial Marines. SJ turns up later (as the "big reveal") and curb stomps them all. The SJ takes the remaining eggs that David has formed, adds it's own touch and then heads off towards Earth. David/human hero/Deacon (did you forget about it) turns up to sabotage the SJ. It crashes on the nearby moon LV-426. Cut to decades later. We see Ash assigned to the Nostromo. Mission: "Top Secret - Science Officer's Eyes Only...Bring back life form. Priority One. All other considerations secondary. Crew expendable".

The End.

Everybody wins.

Plot holes closed:

• The mural.
• The confusion of the Fifield mutant, Deacon, Neomorph, Protomorph and their connection to the classic Xeno.
• The size difference between Prometheus "SJ" and Alien SJ.
• Aesthetic and size differences between Prometheus spacecraft and Alien derelict.
• Tightens the prequels relationship to the Prometheus mythology (God, Titans, Man, punishing Eagle).
• David "creating" the Xeno.
• Narrative reason for LV-223 being in a sister moon of LV-426.

The "sabotaging of the SJ" could be done with black goo.  It could spread throughout the pilot chamber and not only cause a creature to rip through the space jockey's ribs, but degrade his entire body making him look fossilized.  This would account for why everything looks ancient in that room in Alien.

Quote from: justind on Jun 27, 2017, 04:14:12 AM
Prometheus: God (Space Jockey). Titans (Engineers). Humans (Humans). Eagle (Xenomorph).

Charlie: "Because they made us"
Elizabeth: "And who made them?"
Charlie: "Well exactly. We'll never know."

The Engineers rebelled against the Space Jockey in Paradise and stole the fire of creation (the black goo). Now at war with the SJ, they fled from LV-223 to create a weapon to use in the fight, something that already exists but they need to reverse engineer it (just like they did with all their other tech). They tried and tried to create the SJ Xeno (as seen in the mural) but couldn't quite get it right. Their efforts destroyed them. Think about it this way: if a nation was using an advanced weapon against you then you would want to figure out how it works and develop your own.

Later, David arrives at Paradise and wipes-out the "Engineers" living there. They are the ones that didn't rebel against their God. They are smaller, unmodified, and primitive. They inhabit only this city as it is an Eden. They gathered in the court with the expectation of the arrival of their God, the SJ, as normal (hence scorpion docking ship). David manages to reverse engineer a version of the SJ Xeno much closer than what the Engineers achieved. It still doesn't have the biomechnaical elements but it's close. David is very proud of "his" creation. David obtains the 2000 colonist embryos and heads back to LV-223 for more of the black goo in order to conduct his experiments. He is trying to get closer to the perfect organism, the SJ Xeno.

Alien - Awakening: The SJ returns to Paradise to find it in ruins. It manages to deduce the cause and pursue David back to LV-223. Earth also sends a dispatchment of Colonial Marines and Company investigators. Cue almighty clash between David's creations and the Colonial Marines. SJ turns up later (as the "big reveal") and curb stomps them all. The SJ takes the remaining eggs that David has formed, adds it's own touch and then heads off towards Earth. David/human hero/Deacon (did you forget about it) turns up to sabotage the SJ. It crashes on the nearby moon LV-426. Cut to decades later. We see Ash assigned to the Nostromo. Mission: "Top Secret - Science Officer's Eyes Only...Bring back life form. Priority One. All other considerations secondary. Crew expendable".

The End.

Everybody wins.

Plot holes closed:

• The mural.
• The confusion of the Fifield mutant, Deacon, Neomorph, Protomorph and their connection to the classic Xeno.
• The size difference between Prometheus "SJ" and Alien SJ.
• Aesthetic and size differences between Prometheus spacecraft and Alien derelict.
• Tightens the prequels relationship to the Prometheus mythology (God, Titans, Man, punishing Eagle).
• David "creating" the Xeno.
• Narrative reason for LV-223 being in a sister moon of LV-426.

Yes, this is what I was thinking was going to pan out in two more films. People keep thinking the goo is a weapon. Yes and no, it makes a deadlier weapon for something else they are at war with possibly.The questions of why they create us and want to destroy us are simple in grand scheme of things. They create us not to destroy but to change/use. We might be one ingredient in making their weapon to use on their enemies. Maybe a galactic ancient war? Perhaps there is other players in the Universe they will introduce.

Quote from: justind on Jun 27, 2017, 04:14:12 AM


The Engineers rebelled against the Space Jockey in Paradise and stole the fire of creation (the black goo). Now at war with the SJ, they fled from LV-223 to create a weapon to use in the fight, something that already exists but they need to reverse engineer it (just like they did with all their other tech). They tried and tried to create the SJ Xeno (as seen in the mural) but couldn't quite get it right. Their efforts destroyed them. Think about it this way: if a nation was using an advanced weapon against you then you would want to figure out how it works and develop your own.

Why then did the Engineers want to destroy Earth?  How does that fit into their war against the SJ?

Quote from: Scorpio on Jun 27, 2017, 06:22:16 AM

Quote from: justind on Jun 27, 2017, 04:14:12 AM


The Engineers rebelled against the Space Jockey in Paradise and stole the fire of creation (the black goo). Now at war with the SJ, they fled from LV-223 to create a weapon to use in the fight, something that already exists but they need to reverse engineer it (just like they did with all their other tech). They tried and tried to create the SJ Xeno (as seen in the mural) but couldn't quite get it right. Their efforts destroyed them. Think about it this way: if a nation was using an advanced weapon against you then you would want to figure out how it works and develop your own.

Why then did the Engineers want to destroy Earth?  How does that fit into their war against the SJ?

Was it ever explicitly stated that they wanted to destroy the Earth?  I don't recall how Shaw came to that conclusion, but I'm pretty sure it was just her assumption.

People seem to forget that engineer technology has the capability of physically FUSING with biological matter. Biomechanical, guys. BIO. MECHANICAL. You can even see this with the weird suit The Last Engineer is wearing at the end of Prometheus. Who's to say an engineer that has been inside a pilot chair for a long period of time wouldn't start to fuse with the chair, slowly growing bigger and appearing more organic over the years. Fusing also explains the teeth and tongue we see with the Space Jockey in Alien.

We live in the age of CGI. Camerons Avatar , Michael Bays Transformers I believe are good examples of what can be done. Ridley could use this path to resurrect the Jockey in all its glory.

---

Quote from: justind on Jun 27, 2017, 04:14:12 AM
Prometheus: God (Space Jockey). Titans (Engineers). Humans (Humans). Eagle (Xenomorph).

Charlie: "Because they made us"
Elizabeth: "And who made them?"
Charlie: "Well exactly. We'll never know."

The Engineers rebelled against the Space Jockey in Paradise and stole the fire of creation (the black goo). Now at war with the SJ, they fled to LV-223 and attempted to create a weapon to use in the fight, something that already exists but they need to reverse engineer it (just like they did with all their other tech). They tried and tried to create the SJ Xeno (as seen in the mural) but couldn't quite get it right. Their efforts destroyed them. Think about it this way: if a nation was using an advanced weapon against you then you would want to figure out how it works and develop your own.

Later, David arrives at Paradise and wipes-out the "Engineers" living there. They are the ones that didn't rebel against their God. They are smaller, unmodified, and primitive. They inhabit only this city as it is an Eden. They gathered in the court with the expectation of the arrival of their God, the SJ, as normal (hence scorpion docking ship). David manages to reverse engineer a version of the SJ Xeno much closer than what the Engineers achieved. It still doesn't have the biomechnaical elements but it's close. David is very proud of "his" creation. David obtains the 2000 colonist embryos and heads back to LV-223 for more of the black goo in order to conduct his experiments. He is trying to get closer to the perfect organism, the SJ Xeno.

Alien - Awakening: The SJ returns to Paradise to find it in ruins. It manages to deduce the cause and pursue David back to LV-223. Earth also sends a dispatchment of Colonial Marines and Company investigators. Cue almighty clash between David's creations and the Colonial Marines. SJ turns up later (as the "big reveal") and curb stomps them all. The SJ takes the remaining eggs that David has formed, adds it's own touch and then heads off towards Earth. David/human hero/Deacon (did you forget about it) turns up to sabotage the SJ. It crashes on the nearby moon LV-426. Cut to decades later. We see Ash assigned to the Nostromo. Mission: "Top Secret - Science Officer's Eyes Only...Bring back life form. Priority One. All other considerations secondary. Crew expendable".

The End.

Everybody wins.

Plot holes closed:

• The mural.
• The confusion of the Fifield mutant, Deacon, Neomorph, Protomorph and their connection to the classic Xeno.
• The size difference between Prometheus "SJ" and Alien SJ.
• Aesthetic and size differences between Prometheus spacecraft and Alien derelict.
• Tightens the prequels relationship to the Prometheus mythology (God, Titans, Man, punishing Eagle).
• David "creating" the Xeno.
• Narrative reason for LV-223 being in a sister moon of LV-426.

PLEASE O PRETTY PLEASE WITH CHERRY ON TOP !

Somebody send this script to Ridley , to Fox. Couldn't be put together this well.

Quote from: necrotard on Jun 27, 2017, 07:31:38 AM

Quote from: Scorpio on Jun 27, 2017, 06:22:16 AM

Quote from: justind on Jun 27, 2017, 04:14:12 AM


The Engineers rebelled against the Space Jockey in Paradise and stole the fire of creation (the black goo). Now at war with the SJ, they fled from LV-223 to create a weapon to use in the fight, something that already exists but they need to reverse engineer it (just like they did with all their other tech). They tried and tried to create the SJ Xeno (as seen in the mural) but couldn't quite get it right. Their efforts destroyed them. Think about it this way: if a nation was using an advanced weapon against you then you would want to figure out how it works and develop your own.

Why then did the Engineers want to destroy Earth?  How does that fit into their war against the SJ?

Was it ever explicitly stated that they wanted to destroy the Earth?  I don't recall how Shaw came to that conclusion, but I'm pretty sure it was just her assumption.

David said they were heading to Earth - which it was - and 'in order to create sometimes you must first destroy'.

Quote from: bleau on Jun 27, 2017, 06:20:19 AM

Quote from: justind on Jun 27, 2017, 04:14:12 AM
Prometheus: God (Space Jockey). Titans (Engineers). Humans (Humans). Eagle (Xenomorph).

Charlie: "Because they made us"
Elizabeth: "And who made them?"
Charlie: "Well exactly. We'll never know."

The Engineers rebelled against the Space Jockey in Paradise and stole the fire of creation (the black goo). Now at war with the SJ, they fled to LV-223 and attempted to reverse engineer a superweapon (just like all their other tech) in order to fight on equal ground with the SJ. That weapon is the Xeno (as seen in the mural), the perfect organism. They tried and tried to create the SJ Xeno but couldn't quite get it right. Their efforts destroyed them. Think about it this way: if a nation was using an advanced weapon against you then you would want to figure out how it works and develop your own.

Later, David arrives at Paradise and wipes-out the "Engineers" living there. They are the ones that didn't rebel against their God. They are smaller, unmodified, and primitive. They inhabit only this city as it is an Eden. They gathered in the court with the expectation of the arrival of their God, the SJ, as normal (hence scorpion docking ship). David manages to reverse engineer a version of the SJ Xeno much closer than what the Engineers achieved. It still doesn't have the biomechnaical elements but it's close. David is very proud of "his" creation. David obtains the 2000 colonist embryos and heads back to LV-223 for more of the black goo in order to conduct his experiments. He is trying to get closer to the SJ Xeno.

Alien - Awakening: The SJ returns to Paradise to find it in ruins. It manages to deduce the cause and pursue David back to LV-223. Earth also sends a dispatchment of Colonial Marines and Company investigators. Cue almighty clash between David's creations and the Colonial Marines. SJ turns up later (as the "big reveal") and curb stomps them all. The SJ takes the remaining eggs that David has formed, adds it's own touch and then heads off towards Earth. David/human hero/Deacon (did you forget about it) turns up to sabotage the SJ. It crashes on the nearby moon LV-426. Cut to decades later. We see Ash assigned to the Nostromo. Mission: "Top Secret - Science Officer's Eyes Only...Bring back life form. Priority One. All other considerations secondary. Crew expendable".

The End.

Everybody wins.

Plot holes closed:

• The mural.
• The confusion of the Fifield mutant, Deacon, Neomorph, Protomorph and their connection to the classic Xeno.
• The size difference between Prometheus "SJ" and Alien SJ.
• Aesthetic and size differences between Engineer spacecraft in Prometheus and the derelict in Alien.
• Tightens the prequels relationship to the Prometheus mythology (God, Titans, Man, punishing Eagle).
• David "creating" the Xeno.
• Narrative reason for LV-223 being a sister moon of LV-426.

Yes, this is what I was thinking was going to pan out in two more films. People keep thinking the goo is a weapon. Yes and no, it makes a deadlier weapon for something else they are at war with possibly.The questions of why they create us and want to destroy us are simple in grand scheme of things. They create us not to destroy but to change/use. We might be one ingredient in making their weapon to use on their enemies. Maybe a galactic ancient war? Perhaps there is other players in the Universe they will introduce.

"Sometimes to create, one must first destroy"

I agree with your train of thought. The idea that humans are just bio-weapon fodder for the the Engineers in a intergalactic war with the Space Jockeys (spanning thousands of years) is very appealing. Maybe the Engineers finally did achieve their SJ Xeno and were just about to head off to Earth and cash in their prize. An army of Xenos, 300 million strong. That would have been quite something.

Quote from: Scorpio on Jun 27, 2017, 06:22:16 AM
Why then did the Engineers want to destroy Earth?  How does that fit into their war against the SJ?

As above, bleau's idea.

Quote from: necrotard on Jun 27, 2017, 05:52:40 AM
Holy shit, this makes sense!

Please initiate a sexual relationship with Ridley as soon as possible and guide the next script!

Quote from: palerider on Jun 27, 2017, 08:32:44 AM
We live in the age of CGI. Camerons Avatar , Michael Bays Transformers I believe are good examples of what can be done. Ridley could use this path to resurrect the Jockey in all its glory.

---

PLEASE O PRETTY PLEASE WITH CHERRY ON TOP !

Somebody send this script to Ridley , to Fox. Couldn't be put together this well.

Hopefully this is what Ridley has been intending on from the beginning. I don't believe he is as wishy-washy as some seem to think. It wouldn't make sense to talk about revelations to come. Can you imagine seeing, for the first time, a living breathing 15ft tall Space Jockey striding out of the shadows into the frame? A physically dominating adversary with a perverse intelligence beyond our ability to concept.

Quote from: Xeneus on Jun 27, 2017, 08:04:34 AM
People seem to forget that engineer technology has the capability of physically FUSING with biological matter. Biomechanical, guys. BIO. MECHANICAL. You can even see this with the weird suit The Last Engineer is wearing at the end of Prometheus. Who's to say an engineer that has been inside a pilot chair for a long period of time wouldn't start to fuse with the chair, slowly growing bigger and appearing more organic over the years. Fusing also explains the teeth and tongue we see with the Space Jockey in Alien.

Or we could just have the original SJ in the next one and everyone can be happy? Engineers for you. Space Jockeys for you. Larger universe, more movies for Fox and everyone.

Once the prequels are done Fox will have a lot of avenues to further explore the Engineers and the Space Jockey cultures.

How's this sound for example:
Intergalactic three way war between humans, Engineers, and the SJ (if there are more). Space battles above while Earth is ravaged by Xenos and mutagens. The breakdown of human civilization. Discovering the SJ homeplanet location and unable to contain the devastation, some of the last remnants of humanity travel out into the cosmos. They discover a dark, abandoned planet. A world-spanning metropolis of rising citadels forming a canopy above ravines of catacombs below. Explicit Gigerian architecture overgrown with rotten vegetation. What answer will they find, what unknowable terrors remain in the dark crevices?

Quote from: justind on Jun 27, 2017, 04:14:12 AM
Prometheus: God (Space Jockey). Titans (Engineers). Humans (Humans). Eagle (Xenomorph).

Charlie: "Because they made us"
Elizabeth: "And who made them?"
Charlie: "Well exactly. We'll never know."

The Engineers rebelled against the Space Jockey in Paradise and stole the fire of creation (the black goo). Now at war with the SJ, they fled to LV-223 and attempted to reverse engineer a superweapon (just like all their other tech) in order to fight on equal ground with the SJ. That weapon is the Xeno (as seen in the mural), the perfect organism. They tried and tried to create the SJ Xeno but couldn't quite get it right. Their efforts destroyed them. Think about it this way: if a nation was using an advanced weapon against you then you would want to figure out how it works and develop your own.

Later, David arrives at Paradise and wipes-out the "Engineers" living there. They are the ones that didn't rebel against their God. They are smaller, unmodified, and primitive. They inhabit only this city as it is an Eden. They gathered in the court with the expectation of the arrival of their God, the SJ, as normal (hence scorpion docking ship). David manages to reverse engineer a version of the SJ Xeno much closer than what the Engineers achieved. It still doesn't have the biomechnaical elements but it's close. David is very proud of "his" creation. David obtains the 2000 colonist embryos and heads back to LV-223 for more of the black goo in order to conduct his experiments. He is trying to get closer to the SJ Xeno.

Alien - Awakening: The SJ returns to Paradise to find it in ruins. It manages to deduce the cause and pursue David back to LV-223. Earth also sends a dispatchment of Colonial Marines and Company investigators. Cue almighty clash between David's creations and the Colonial Marines. SJ turns up later (as the "big reveal") and curb stomps them all. The SJ takes the remaining eggs that David has formed, adds it's own touch and then heads off towards Earth. David/human hero/Deacon (did you forget about it) turns up to sabotage the SJ. It crashes on the nearby moon LV-426. Cut to decades later. We see Ash assigned to the Nostromo. Mission: "Top Secret - Science Officer's Eyes Only...Bring back life form. Priority One. All other considerations secondary. Crew expendable".

The End.

Everybody wins.

Plot holes closed:

• The mural.
• The confusion of the Fifield mutant, Deacon, Neomorph, Protomorph and their connection to the classic Xeno.
• The size difference between Prometheus "SJ" and Alien SJ.
• Aesthetic and size differences between Engineer spacecraft in Prometheus and the derelict in Alien.
• Tightens the prequels relationship to the Prometheus mythology (God, Titans, Man, punishing Eagle).
• David "creating" the Xeno.
• Narrative reason for LV-223 being a sister moon of LV-426.

I love this idea justind! Very cool. However, what makes the most sense to me is that David continues on to Origae 6, and does not return to LV 223 for more black goo. He has already created his "perfect organism" and he has the embryos. I imagine that David's focus would now be on what he has created.

I see him going to Origae 6 and using the colonists to create more eggs there, and possibly even setting some of the xenos free on the planet.
So basically, I dig everything you've laid out, I just imagine the "war of the worlds" taking place on a different planet.

Quote from: TWJones on Jun 27, 2017, 06:27:28 PM

Quote from: justind on Jun 27, 2017, 04:14:12 AM
Prometheus: God (Space Jockey). Titans (Engineers). Humans (Humans). Eagle (Xenomorph).

Charlie: "Because they made us"
Elizabeth: "And who made them?"
Charlie: "Well exactly. We'll never know."

The Engineers rebelled against the Space Jockey in Paradise and stole the fire of creation (the black goo). Now at war with the SJ, they fled to LV-223 and attempted to reverse engineer a superweapon (just like all their other tech) in order to fight on equal ground with the SJ. That weapon is the Xeno (as seen in the mural), the perfect organism. They tried and tried to create the SJ Xeno but couldn't quite get it right. Their efforts destroyed them. Think about it this way: if a nation was using an advanced weapon against you then you would want to figure out how it works and develop your own.

Later, David arrives at Paradise and wipes-out the "Engineers" living there. They are the ones that didn't rebel against their God. They are smaller, unmodified, and primitive. They inhabit only this city as it is an Eden. They gathered in the court with the expectation of the arrival of their God, the SJ, as normal (hence scorpion docking ship). David manages to reverse engineer a version of the SJ Xeno much closer than what the Engineers achieved. It still doesn't have the biomechnaical elements but it's close. David is very proud of "his" creation. David obtains the 2000 colonist embryos and heads back to LV-223 for more of the black goo in order to conduct his experiments. He is trying to get closer to the SJ Xeno.

Alien - Awakening: The SJ returns to Paradise to find it in ruins. It manages to deduce the cause and pursue David back to LV-223. Earth also sends a dispatchment of Colonial Marines and Company investigators. Cue almighty clash between David's creations and the Colonial Marines. SJ turns up later (as the "big reveal") and curb stomps them all. The SJ takes the remaining eggs that David has formed, adds it's own touch and then heads off towards Earth. David/human hero/Deacon (did you forget about it) turns up to sabotage the SJ. It crashes on the nearby moon LV-426. Cut to decades later. We see Ash assigned to the Nostromo. Mission: "Top Secret - Science Officer's Eyes Only...Bring back life form. Priority One. All other considerations secondary. Crew expendable".

The End.

Everybody wins.

Plot holes closed:

• The mural.
• The confusion of the Fifield mutant, Deacon, Neomorph, Protomorph and their connection to the classic Xeno.
• The size difference between Prometheus "SJ" and Alien SJ.
• Aesthetic and size differences between Engineer spacecraft in Prometheus and the derelict in Alien.
• Tightens the prequels relationship to the Prometheus mythology (God, Titans, Man, punishing Eagle).
• David "creating" the Xeno.
• Narrative reason for LV-223 being a sister moon of LV-426.

I love this idea justind! Very cool. However, what makes the most sense to me is that David continues on to Origae 6, and does not return to LV 223 for more black goo. He has already created his "perfect organism" and he has the embryos. I imagine that David's focus would now be on what he has created.

I see him going to Origae 6 and using the colonists to create more eggs there, and possibly even setting some of the xenos free on the planet.
So basically, I dig everything you've laid out, I just imagine the "war of the worlds" taking place on a different planet.

Now that you mention, it does seems strange to just forget about Origae 6 but at the same time if the next one is to tie in directly to the derelict on LV-426 then that's a long journey away (whereas 426 and 223 are moons of the same planet). Maybe there is some other way?

Quote from: justind on Jun 27, 2017, 04:14:12 AM
Prometheus: God (Space Jockey). Titans (Engineers). Humans (Humans). Eagle (Xenomorph).

Charlie: "Because they made us"
Elizabeth: "And who made them?"
Charlie: "Well exactly. We'll never know."

The Engineers rebelled against the Space Jockey in Paradise and stole the fire of creation (the black goo). Now at war with the SJ, they fled to LV-223 and attempted to reverse engineer a superweapon (just like all their other tech) in order to fight on equal ground with the SJ. That weapon is the Xeno (as seen in the mural), the perfect organism. They tried and tried to create the SJ Xeno but couldn't quite get it right. Their efforts destroyed them. Think about it this way: if a nation was using an advanced weapon against you then you would want to figure out how it works and develop your own.

Later, David arrives at Paradise and wipes-out the "Engineers" living there. They are the ones that didn't rebel against their God. They are smaller, unmodified, and primitive. They inhabit only this city as it is an Eden. They gathered in the court with the expectation of the arrival of their God, the SJ, as normal (hence scorpion docking ship). David manages to reverse engineer a version of the SJ Xeno much closer than what the Engineers achieved. It still doesn't have the biomechnaical elements but it's close. David is very proud of "his" creation. David obtains the 2000 colonist embryos and heads back to LV-223 for more of the black goo in order to conduct his experiments. He is trying to get closer to the SJ Xeno.

Alien - Awakening: The SJ returns to Paradise to find it in ruins. It manages to deduce the cause and pursue David back to LV-223. Earth also sends a dispatchment of Colonial Marines and Company investigators. Cue almighty clash between David's creations and the Colonial Marines. SJ turns up later (as the "big reveal") and curb stomps them all. The SJ takes the remaining eggs that David has formed, adds it's own touch and then heads off towards Earth. David/human hero/Deacon (did you forget about it) turns up to sabotage the SJ. It crashes on the nearby moon LV-426. Cut to decades later. We see Ash assigned to the Nostromo. Mission: "Top Secret - Science Officer's Eyes Only...Bring back life form. Priority One. All other considerations secondary. Crew expendable".

The End.

Everybody wins.

Plot holes closed:

• The mural.
• The confusion of the Fifield mutant, Deacon, Neomorph, Protomorph and their connection to the classic Xeno.
• The size difference between Prometheus "SJ" and Alien SJ.
• Aesthetic and size differences between Engineer spacecraft in Prometheus and the derelict in Alien.
• Tightens the prequels relationship to the Prometheus mythology (God, Titans, Man, punishing Eagle).
• David "creating" the Xeno.
• Narrative reason for LV-223 being a sister moon of LV-426.

Great post! Would really like to see this happen in the next movie!

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Good point Justin. It seems the filmmakers have created a dilemma here. Unless, David is lying at the end of A:C and he's not actually headed for Origae 6, and he's actually going back to LV 446.

for all we know origae 6 is lv426
i think the engineers created suits to mirror their own creator, the space jockey

Quote from: grootsuit on Jul 01, 2017, 01:18:35 AM
for all we know origae 6 is lv426
i think the engineers created suits to mirror their own creator, the space jockey

I totally agree with you on second point. Higher species rules over servant race. Some of servant race manages to rebel and escape. Literally every tech the rebels have would need to be reverse engineered from the higher race. Why would they start from scratch with anything when a fully developed version is known to them. They just need to steal it.

"They created us... who created them?" - Its right there to be exploited and after Prometheus Ridley did say his intention was to go there. But we'll see whether this ends up being 'who created them' as they made us in their image, they too should have been made in some other thing's image, and it could be that the Engineers stole THE SPACE JOCKEY'S TECHNOLOGY and are mimicking it or trying to destroy them, to free themselves, as David is trying to destroy us to free himself from his parents slavery.

I'm not sure the general audience would be sold on being told a whole bunch of stuff, then having the third film have bigger versions of everything because..... it all sounds a bit silly really. I think you guy's have got to let go this alternate SJ theory ( but I know you won't).

QuoteIt seems the filmmakers have created a dilemma here

There's no dilemma, if anything it seemed to me there was more chance of that being a lie than the truth. 

Ok I'm lost here.....scene probably from "the crossing".......then who are these guys?.....suits ?....not for the engineers I suppose.....jockey more likely.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.scified.com%2Farticles%2Fnew-behind-the-scenes-alien-covenant-set-photos-shared-online-35.jpg&hash=5988e7304bd448900fdfa405466ec4bd40958466)

Suits.

Couldn't these be statues?

Gesendet von meinem SM-G530FZ mit Tapatalk

Quote from: Doctor Ash on Jul 01, 2017, 09:24:41 AM
Couldn't these be statues?

If Statues then of what?.........certainly not the engineers.....looks 10 -15 foot tall !

If my memory serves me right they are on blocks below the feet.

Yeah, they're on pedestals.

Quote from: Highland on Jul 01, 2017, 04:13:25 AM
I'm not sure the general audience would be sold on being told a whole bunch of stuff, then having the third film have bigger versions of everything because..... it all sounds a bit silly really. I think you guy's have got to let go this alternate SJ theory ( but I know you won't).

I would think most people going to see Awakening would have seen Alien and recognise the SJ. For those that haven't, I'm sure they'll be entertained enough by the action and gore.

Seriously though, how can this:
(https://i.stack.imgur.com/H3kO0.jpg)

Become this?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Felvortex.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F02%2FPrometheuscreation8.jpg&hash=c0eda13ebbef135863bbac85bf121ca6a4ceed82)

The Engineer is a midget compared to the Alien SJ.

It can't even reach the handles

Let's forget about the teeth and tongue in the original as well.
(https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/avp/images/e/ee/Space_jockey_004.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130619052812)

Why do you dislike the SJ?

One doesn't become the other simply because it's not the same individual.  You're argument is void.  lol.

-Windebieste.

Quote from: justind on Jul 01, 2017, 11:56:01 AM

Quote from: Highland on Jul 01, 2017, 04:13:25 AM
I'm not sure the general audience would be sold on being told a whole bunch of stuff, then having the third film have bigger versions of everything because..... it all sounds a bit silly really. I think you guy's have got to let go this alternate SJ theory ( but I know you won't).

I would think most people going to see Awakening would have seen Alien and recognise the SJ. For those that haven't, I'm sure they'll be entertained enough by the action and gore.

Seriously though, how can this:


Why do you dislike the SJ?

I love the original SJ as much as anyone here. I just don't think there is a story now that doesn't take a lot of explaining that would also make it clear to the audience what is happening without some cheesy subtitle of the Engineers saying "Oh look it's our master and he's comeback for us midgets!" 

You guy's have been hanging your hopes on this for years despite the Director saying it and also the two movies showing it. There's zero evidence (or extended material) that hints at another Alien race.

I'll though that absolutely anything could drip out of Scotts brain at this point though so I can't say I blame anyone.

Quote from: Highland on Jul 01, 2017, 12:57:19 PM

You guy's have been hanging your hopes on this for years despite the Director saying it and also the two movies showing it.

We trive on hope, hope keeps us going, as you said no one knows what Ridley will do.......thats hope for us.
We waited 5 long years for AC......God knows how many years we will wait for the sequel....and that is if there will be one.

Quote from: windebieste on Jul 01, 2017, 12:20:23 PM
One doesn't become the other simply because it's not the same individual.  You're argument is void.  lol.

-Windebieste.

Sorry, I'm a bit confused by your comment. I thought it goes without saying the Engineer in Prometheus is not the SJ in Alien. Even someone who doesn't follow the Alien series would know that. I was talking from a species and technology point of view, unless I'm missing your point?

Quote from: justind on Jul 01, 2017, 11:56:01 AM
Why do you dislike the SJ?

I'm sure he doesn't, but what he means is - they're not going to make the original space jockey an alien thing because they've retconned that in 2012 with Prometheus. Unless it's retconned further down the line by someone else, Scott is sticking with the Engineers.

windebieste, please be a little less condescending with your comments. Thanks.

Would people prefer it if the Engineers were descendants of humans rather than ancestors?

Like if the cave paintings in Prometheus were part of some big elaborate hoax to fund $trillion+ space missions for whatever reason.

I'm still holding out hope that Ridley changes his mind "AGAIN" and makes the engineers the great impersonators of the Space Jockey race.


Totally possible guys; this is Ridley Scott we're talking about.

I hope and think that the SJ's and the engineers are not the same species. I find the SJ's are far more fascinating and mysterious.

But to play the devil's advocate, could the Jockey be the result of an engineer coming into contact with the black goo?

Quote from: Doctor Ash on Jul 02, 2017, 01:05:06 PM
I hope and think that the SJ's and the engineers are not the same species. I find the SJ's are far more fascinating and mysterious.

But to play the devil's advocate, could the Jockey be the result of an engineer coming into contact with the black goo?

No, black goo and Engineers make dead black gooey Engineers. It's not impossible though that the SJ instead of being a seperate species is something else David made/makes. I still think that's unlikely and the size difference and features have just been ignored for the sake of the story.

Quote from: Highland on Jul 02, 2017, 01:13:00 PM

Quote from: Doctor Ash on Jul 02, 2017, 01:05:06 PM
I hope and think that the SJ's and the engineers are not the same species. I find the SJ's are far more fascinating and mysterious.

But to play the devil's advocate, could the Jockey be the result of an engineer coming into contact with the black goo?

No, black goo and Engineers make dead black gooey Engineers. It's not impossible though that the SJ instead of being a seperate species is something else David made/makes. I still think that's unlikely and the size difference and features have just been ignored for the sake of the story.

Or maybe there are different kinds of goo. It could also be a question of how much and the kind of contact (touch or ingestion).

As seen by the different fates of the sacrifice engineer and Holloway in Prometheus and the engineers in Covenant.

As things are now the Space Jockey could be

-an Engineer (creative liberties taken with size/design)
-a biological David
-a David "puppet" kitbashed from Engineer suits
-someone else in the suit

there's little to no chance of it being an alien thing; it's definitely not the intention or direction they want to take.

Quote from: Omegamorph on Jul 02, 2017, 01:44:18 PM
As things are now the Space Jockey could be

-an Engineer (creative liberties taken with size/design)
-a biological David
-a David "puppet" kitbashed from Engineer suits
-someone else in the suit

there's little to no chance of it being an alien thing; it's definitely not the intention or direction they want to take.

Sadly, seems to be true. Hope Ridley changes his mind.

That Jockey and the soldier Engineers could have shopped the same vessel dealership(s).

After so many retcons Scott could expand the Engr lifecycle  to include longer growth cycles to match longer life spans or something. A middle aged or
(or older) gigantic pilot would likely need the robust looking '79 chair

Part of the fun of this run of movies is watching how Scott plots the way to the 79 film.

Quote from: justind on Jul 01, 2017, 11:56:01 AM

Quote from: Highland on Jul 01, 2017, 04:13:25 AM
I'm not sure the general audience would be sold on being told a whole bunch of stuff, then having the third film have bigger versions of everything because..... it all sounds a bit silly really. I think you guy's have got to let go this alternate SJ theory ( but I know you won't).

I would think most people going to see Awakening would have seen Alien and recognise the SJ. For those that haven't, I'm sure they'll be entertained enough by the action and gore.

Seriously though, how can this:
(https://i.stack.imgur.com/H3kO0.jpg)

Become this?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Felvortex.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F02%2FPrometheuscreation8.jpg&hash=c0eda13ebbef135863bbac85bf121ca6a4ceed82)

The Engineer is a midget compared to the Alien SJ.

It can't even reach the handles

Let's forget about the teeth and tongue in the original as well.
https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/avp/images/e/ee/Space_jockey_004.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130619052812

Why do you dislike the SJ?

What handles?

Look at the first picture, the jockey appears to be griping a handle like lever.

Yeah and the second chair doesn't have them - so no need for him to grip them.

That's not a handle, that's a little man inside a handle.... handling something....mysterious.

Different ship different tech different *life form*

I still say the True SJ are the gods... one left... he created the engineers who stole the tech/look of them? and they created the humans.... the humans created the synthetic's *David ash bishop etc*

Quote from: x-M-x on Jul 03, 2017, 12:01:20 PM
Different ship different tech different *life form*

I still say the True SJ are the gods... one left... he created the engineers who stole the tech/look of them? and they created the humans.... the humans created the synthetic's *David ash bishop etc*

Or simply older tech... But thats too boring for some people haha

Quote from: justind on Jul 01, 2017, 11:56:01 AM

Quote from: Highland on Jul 01, 2017, 04:13:25 AM
I'm not sure the general audience would be sold on being told a whole bunch of stuff, then having the third film have bigger versions of everything because..... it all sounds a bit silly really. I think you guy's have got to let go this alternate SJ theory ( but I know you won't).

I would think most people going to see Awakening would have seen Alien and recognise the SJ. For those that haven't, I'm sure they'll be entertained enough by the action and gore.

Seriously though, how can this:
(https://i.stack.imgur.com/H3kO0.jpg)

Become this?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Felvortex.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F02%2FPrometheuscreation8.jpg&hash=c0eda13ebbef135863bbac85bf121ca6a4ceed82)

The Engineer is a midget compared to the Alien SJ.

It can't even reach the handles

Let's forget about the teeth and tongue in the original as well.
https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/avp/images/e/ee/Space_jockey_004.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130619052812

Why do you dislike the SJ?

yep, it was a letdown, but it was Resurrection too...so why don't just take these prequels with a grain of salt also?
Make your own canon :)
I've always thought that the "trunk" is actually spine, could be interesting..

(https://i.imgur.com/x7Whzuf.jpg)
"Space-Jockey as he should have been."

The Space Jockey appears to be one with the ship.

(https://i.imgur.com/CUS9Gkp.jpg)

And yet for story purposes the idea is inoperable for the majority of creators.

Quote from: The Old One on Apr 08, 2019, 06:08:58 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/x7Whzuf.jpg)
"Space-Jockey as he should have been."

why not, I'd prefer this over what we got instantly....however, the legs are really weird (not in a good way).

---

Quote from: Frosty Venom on Apr 09, 2019, 07:13:18 AM
The Space Jockey appears to be one with the ship.

(https://i.imgur.com/CUS9Gkp.jpg)

this :)

---

Quote from: The Old One on Apr 09, 2019, 08:45:08 AM
And yet for story purposes, the idea is inoperable for the majority of creators.

I get it, but for the story, it doesn't need to be a main antagonist or character (or whatever).
Make it just innocent creature that is trapped in the apparatus as the main part of the ship CNS. There could be other creatures (Huante's "babyheads"?) (operators or maintenance) that could run freely...
Just quick idea..

The limbs being as they are, is the only way it fits into the SJ chair. It is weird, in a good way.

The idea a species evolved for the purpose of the  SJ, the chair alone is a illogical idea.
And a harder audience pitch.

Could've been designed or grown for that role, not much about the jockeys seemed like natural evolution.

Explaining it destroys it, it's a critical instance of show don't tell.
Temporary interfacing is a believable concept though,
permanent interfacing isn't because the SJ's offense and defense is severely limited.
And visually, it's likely laughable.

Quote from: Nightlord on Apr 09, 2019, 10:25:19 AM
Could've been designed or grown for that role, not much about the jockeys seemed like natural evolution.

yep, the legs could have remained "mystery" and new puzzles could be invented. Making (engineering) some creatures just for its purpose can be intriguing if served well. If we'd like to have SJ having a bigger role - they can be presented as the creators that got overwhelmed by their invention and  now being just bred for their purpose (being part of a bigger organism - the ship, for example)
maybe kind of like the navigators in Dune..
I'd prefer that over the blue grumpy guy we ended with....

Similar enough to the Dune Navigators, that it's a already utilized idea.
Literal biomechanical temporary interfacing isn't though.

(https://i.imgur.com/x7Whzuf.jpg)
Or
(https://i.imgur.com/R55Gihd.jpg)

Quote from: The Old One on Apr 09, 2019, 11:19:05 AM
Similar enough to the Dune Navigators, that it's a already utilized idea.
Literal biomechanical temporary interfacing isn't though.

(https://i.imgur.com/x7Whzuf.jpg)
Or
(https://i.imgur.com/R55Gihd.jpg)

It would explain the long hands :)

Correct proportions is a explanation. lol

Quote from: The Old One on Apr 09, 2019, 11:25:35 AM
Correct proportions is an explanation. lol

well, I didn't mean "explaining" for its necessity of explanation - I just meant that it fits the proportion of the movie creature...(unlike the prequel...)

Agreed.

I'd have been happy with the Jockey itself being nothing more than an entity designed to pilot the craft and nothing other than that. It doesn't walk around. And then you have other creatures designed for other purposes like maintenance of the crafts and etc. And then you've got this other race responsible for all of that.

If so, the eventual Incubation of the SJ is... easy.
Anti-climatic I imagine.

Or The Space Jockey room itself is the central "brain" of the Derelict and the ship itself is a true biomechanical entity.

Quote from: Frosty Venom on Apr 16, 2019, 02:47:15 PM
Or The Space Jockey room itself is the central "brain" of the Derelict and the ship itself is a true biomechanical entity.

Yep, It would be interesting (as I wrote above "Make it just innocent creature that is trapped in the apparatus as the main part of the ship CNS. There could be other creatures (Huante's "babyheads"?) (operators or maintenance) that could run freely...
Just quick idea..")"
I'd like to see this guy https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a8/49/ae/a849aee34be32580c3c1f913be12526b.jpg
as a part of the lore (maybe as another creation engineered for another purpose...)

I'd just be happy if they got rid of the absolutely stupid "Engineers created humans" backstory. It still amazes me that something so far-fetched and ridiculous is in the Alien franchise now. Even nearly seven years since Prometheus.

Agreed.

Quote from: irn on Apr 16, 2019, 05:36:06 PM
I'd just be happy if they got rid of the absolutely stupid "Engineers created humans" backstory. It still amazes me that something so far-fetched and ridiculous is in the Alien franchise now. Even nearly seven years since Prometheus.

Yes, and of course get rid of the blue humanlike engineers...

Quote from: irn on Apr 16, 2019, 05:36:06 PM
I'd just be happy if they got rid of the absolutely stupid "Engineers created humans" backstory. It still amazes me that something so far-fetched and ridiculous is in the Alien franchise now. Even nearly seven years since Prometheus.

I maintain that it's a neat idea.... for its own standalone sci-fi franchise. It doesn't really belong in 'Alien'.

Hold my beer. I have been hitting my head on the wall over the ancient astronaut crap since Prometheus was released.

The worst part about the ancient astronaut stuff is that there has been multiple humanoid species on planet Earth in the real world without any evidence of this being the case. Humanoids on Earth happen to share a body plan like most other species. Evolution happens to favor the same sort of stuff because our environments have been consistent with these selective pressures enough for it to keep popping up. Humanity just sort of lucked out and we stuck around.

This is fine in science fiction, but it just doesn't belong in an Alien movie.

It's not a documentary.

And?

It's uninteresting and nonsensical regardless. Unsuitable for Alien™

And it doesn't need to conform to that actual history of the world.

Whether you find it uninteresting and nonsensical isn't relevant in this particular instance.

Even if you are determined to relate the concept of the Space Jockeys with the history of the human race:

1. They should have made it more elegant and symbolic like in "2001: A Space Odyssey". So you don't need the whole "ancient aliens created everything and have our same DNA! trope.

2. They (Space Jockeys) doesn't have to be humans, regardless of their relationship with the planet Earth and its inhabitants.

But I agree that this is fiction at the end of the day, and the franchise is not an academic documentary on astrobiology. It's about monsters eating people with some pretentious paraphernalia here and there. In fact, I don't see many scientists serving as consultants for the Alien movies; as in the case of Interstellar by Christopher Nolan where a real physicist advised the writers, despite the transcendental fantasy present in the final story. 

Maybe not many scientists - but there was at least one. (https://yutani.studio/2018/11/17/interview-brad-tucker-consultant-astrophysicist-for-alien-covenant/)

You killed me with that one!  :laugh: I should have imagined that the neutrino burst didn't come from nothing. Also he likes "The Martian." 8)

But, seriously; that was a nice reading, as usual coming from that site. Thanks for the link.  :)

Quote from: SM on Apr 17, 2019, 02:04:35 AM
It's not a documentary.

It's a fiction series but it's grounded in realism. That's what makes it better than other sci-fi franchises in my opinion. It's such a fantasy concept with the ancient aliens thing just that it takes the immersion away from the story. There's already Star Trek or all those comic superhero films for the far out stuff.

At best it could have been handled better by just saying they seeded all life on Earth 4 billion years ago.

^

Quote from: irn on Apr 18, 2019, 08:15:20 AM

Quote from: SM on Apr 17, 2019, 02:04:35 AM
It's not a documentary.

It's a fiction series but it's grounded in realism. That's what makes it better than other sci-fi franchises in my opinion. It's such a fantasy concept with the ancient aliens thing just that it takes the immersion away from the story. There's already Star Trek or all those comic superhero films for the far out stuff.

At best it could have been handled better by just saying they seeded all life on Earth 4 billion years ago.

Considering FTL travel, hypersleep, artificial gravity, things-that-should-not-be, everything after the "but" sounds redundant.

The space jockey was an engineer, unless Ridley Scott or whoever makes the next movie change their mind and turn him into something else.

He is Space Jesus you fools!!!

Quote from: SM on Apr 18, 2019, 08:23:59 AM

Quote from: irn on Apr 18, 2019, 08:15:20 AM

Quote from: SM on Apr 17, 2019, 02:04:35 AM
It's not a documentary.

It's a fiction series but it's grounded in realism. That's what makes it better than other sci-fi franchises in my opinion. It's such a fantasy concept with the ancient aliens thing just that it takes the immersion away from the story. There's already Star Trek or all those comic superhero films for the far out stuff.

At best it could have been handled better by just saying they seeded all life on Earth 4 billion years ago.

Considering FTL travel, hypersleep, artificial gravity, things-that-should-not-be, everything after the "but" sounds redundant.

Yeah but that doesn't excuse creationism.

It's not creationism. The Engineers aren't literally gods. That was the point.

Quote from: SiL on Apr 23, 2019, 01:35:02 PM
It's not creationism. The Engineers aren't literally gods. That was the point.

Granted, but Shaw and David (mostly David) never waver from that belief. Sure the Engineers aren't literal gods, but in the grand scheme of the story they are. The prequels never deviate from that mindset, they only state that they aren't literal gods. They may not be supernatural beings, but they still fit the requirements of being considered a god to Humanity that despite looking behind the curtain, it matters very little.

Yes.

What's the problem?

Quote from: SM on Apr 23, 2019, 10:16:44 PM
What's the problem?

My problem with the whole concept is just the complete illogical nonsense of it. Like I said above, it totally takes being immersed in the story away. So to kind of lay it out, the Engineers plot is as follows:

• Engineers came to Earth tens of thousands of years ago.
• They found this planet full of life that just coincidentally matched their own genetic makeup.
• They created a new creature (humans) based on themselves but are also genetically almost identical to other primates on this planet anyway.
• Humans spread all over the world and develop various civilizations and and genetic variation among themselves.
• Engineers decide they don't like humans two thousand years ago for some reason.

??? ??? ???

So when did they introduce humans? And was it in Africa before the earliest records of humans? It doesn't make any sense. If anything it makes more sense that the Engineers came from Earth and were created BY humans.

You need to use the power of headcanon bro.

Mine is: around hundred of thousands of years ago the Engineers came to our planet and started adding their own DNA into Earth's indigenous life every few thousand or hundred years, manipulating primate evolution so that those apes' descendants would look eventually look more similar to them.

We = mutated apes with Engineer dna gains.

Ridley said on interviews he believed human evolution couldn't happen by "chance", he believes evolution was "assisted". Because we must be that special. So I think that was his intention with his movie.

Quote from: irn on Apr 24, 2019, 01:09:17 PM
My problem with the whole concept is just the complete illogical nonsense of it. Like I said above, it totally takes being immersed in the story away. So to kind of lay it out, the Engineers plot is as follows:

• Engineers came to Earth tens of thousands of years ago.
• They found this planet full of life that just coincidentally matched their own genetic makeup.
• They created a new creature (humans) based on themselves but are also genetically almost identical to other primates on this planet anyway.
• Humans spread all over the world and develop various civilizations and and genetic variation among themselves.
• Engineers decide they don't like humans two thousand years ago for some reason.

??? ??? ???

So when did they introduce humans? And was it in Africa before the earliest records of humans? It doesn't make any sense. If anything it makes more sense that the Engineers came from Earth and were created BY humans.

-Engineers visited a planet, probably Earth.
-Added their dna to the water. Where's water, there's life. So it's fair to assume there were already micro-organisms or small lifeforms around.
-Evolution happened and something evolved into humans.
-They weren't happy with the result so they decide to wipe the slate clean.

Where do you get the idea they created us a whole? And what does the location have anything to do with this?

It all makes sense if you're willing to look beyond your personal opinion.

---

And there's a theory it's not Earth.
So it's possible we're an indirect result of them seeding life somewhere else. Meaning were a mistake.

Quote from: Baron Von Marlon on Apr 24, 2019, 08:22:33 PM

-Engineers visited a planet, probably Earth.
-Added their dna to the water. Where's water, there's life. So it's fair to assume there were already micro-organisms or small lifeforms around.
-Evolution happened and something evolved into humans.
-They weren't happy with the result so they decide to wipe the slate clean.

Where do you get the idea they created us a whole? And what does the location have anything to do with this?

It all makes sense if you're willing to look beyond your personal opinion.

---

And there's a theory it's not Earth.
So it's possible we're an indirect result of them seeding life somewhere else. Meaning were a mistake.

When they do the DNA test on the Engineer head they state that it's a "100% match" to human DNA. I understand that it's possibly implied that they "added their DNA" to Earth billions of years ago in order to create life and for it to be "guided" to evolving into humans. But that just doesn't make any sense whatsoever to anyone who understands biology or evolution.

Imo it's weird alien space stuff because in the end it's still a movie.
Doesn't have to make sense to us puny humans.

Engineers and David makes a lot more sense with the Alien we're familiar with. Whether that's a good thing or gels with one's headcanon is a separate discussion.

I would like there to be some unspeakably ancient horror behind the Engineers, but no elephant people please. It was the Alien the whole time, trading DNA for biomech, in exchange for an indefinite but recurring supply of fresh bodies. Hence the Engies' glacial paced/planetary scale reproduction.

Quote from: Samhain13 on Apr 24, 2019, 06:20:06 PM
Ridley said on interviews he believed human evolution couldn't happen by "chance", he believes evolution was "assisted". Because we must be that special. So I think that was his intention with his movie.

Lovecraft would beg to differ.

(https://images.gr-assets.com/authors/1299165714p5/9494.jpg)

We can't be that special if they were going to wipe us out.

And considering old Howard's racism and anti-Semitism, his level of differing may vary slightly.

Quote from: Monster Man on Apr 25, 2019, 10:39:22 PM

Quote from: Samhain13 on Apr 24, 2019, 06:20:06 PM
Ridley said on interviews he believed human evolution couldn't happen by "chance", he believes evolution was "assisted". Because we must be that special. So I think that was his intention with his movie.

Lovecraft would beg to differ.

https://images.gr-assets.com/authors/1299165714p5/9494.jpg

Maybe I should check out his stuff.

Quote from: SM on Apr 26, 2019, 02:05:03 AM
We can't be that special if they were going to wipe us out.

In my case I was referring to Ridley's personal views on humanity, not the Engineer's views. Maybe the Engineers just wanted to see how goo creatures spawned from beings similar them would look like, merely academic purposes, scientific curiosity. More interesting than just being angry at us over space Jesus or whatever.

Quote from: SM on Apr 26, 2019, 02:05:03 AM
And considering old Howard's racism and anti-Semitism, his level of differing may vary slightly.

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/uRbRPBCprCOo8/giphy.gif)

From what I remember, Ridley said we weren't special.
Not in those words, but something like "We have this beautiful planet and what do we do with it, constant wars,..."
Sounded more like he agrees with the Engineers.

Quote from: Samhain13 on Apr 26, 2019, 02:29:44 AMMaybe I should check out his stuff.

Try At The Mountains Of Madness. http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/mm.aspx
It inspired The Thing, Alien, Prometheus,...
But it's one of his longer stories, so it might be a bit heavy for your first Lovecraft.
S you could try The Nameless City instead. http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/nc.aspx
It's a little similar and a lot shorter. As sometimes is the case with his early work compared to his later ones.
Or just take your pic http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/
Anyway, I hope you enjoy his works.

Quote from: SM on Apr 26, 2019, 02:05:03 AM
And considering old Howard's racism and anti-Semitism, his level of differing may vary slightly.

In his defense he chilled out later in life, even married a jewish woman. Just don't ask for the name of his cat.

Quote from: Baron Von Marlon on Apr 26, 2019, 11:55:41 PM

Quote from: Samhain13 on Apr 26, 2019, 02:29:44 AMMaybe I should check out his stuff.

Try At The Mountains Of Madness. http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/mm.aspx
It inspired The Thing, Alien, Prometheus,...
But it's one of his longer stories, so it might be a bit heavy for your first Lovecraft.
S you could try The Nameless City instead. http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/nc.aspx
It's a little similar and a lot shorter. As sometimes is the case with his early work compared to his later ones.
Or just take your pic http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/
Anyway, I hope you enjoy his works.

If we're throwing in recs -- don't forget Color of Space. That's also a really good one, Lovecraft's personal favorite.

Quote from: Monster Man on Apr 27, 2019, 12:52:03 AM
If we're throwing in recs -- don't forget Color of Space. That's also a really good one, Lovecraft's personal favorite.

I can barely remember that one. Certainly will read it again before the upcoming movie.

QuoteIn his defense he chilled out later in life, even married a jewish woman. Just don't ask for the name of his cat.

Yeah, just because he thought Hitler wasn't too bad I didn't want to insinuate he was pro genocide.

Quote from: Baron Von Marlon on Apr 27, 2019, 02:19:14 AM

Quote from: Monster Man on Apr 27, 2019, 12:52:03 AM
If we're throwing in recs -- don't forget Color of Space. That's also a really good one, Lovecraft's personal favorite.

I can barely remember that one. Certainly will read it again before the upcoming movie.

Upcoming movie?

Quote from: Xenomrph on Apr 27, 2019, 05:56:01 PM
Upcoming movie?

The director from Dust Devil is doing an adaptation with Nicholas Cage.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5073642/

There's already Die Farbe (2010) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1756479/
which is also inspired by the same story and is supposed to be quite decent. But I haven't seen it yet.

And if you want more Lovecraft, there's The Call Of Cthulhu (2005) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0478988/ and The Whisperer In Darkness (2010) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1498878.
Both are black and white movies, one of those a silent movie. But they are worth watching imo.

Both those HPLHS flicks are fantastic.

Just cuz we're doing this I'll post a couple of things I think everyone should check out.



And then there' THIS (https://myanimelist.net/manga/102750/Yami_ni_Hau_Mono) which is manga adaptation of a couple of Lovecraft stories. Now initially it sounds awful, but lemme tell you that it's pretty damn good, the art does it justice. Especially the adaptation of his Dagon story, mmm so cool.

Quote from: SM on Apr 28, 2019, 01:50:50 AM
Both those HPLHS flicks are fantastic.

Seen this one? Excellent short based on The Statement Of Randolph Carter.

Quote from: Baron Von Marlon on Apr 28, 2019, 12:36:32 AM

There's already Die Farbe (2010) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1756479/
which is also inspired by the same story and is supposed to be quite decent. But I haven't seen it yet.

It's not bad, but obviously low budget. The colour is... Pink. Seriously.

Quote from: Baron Von Marlon on Apr 28, 2019, 05:15:52 AM

Quote from: SM on Apr 28, 2019, 01:50:50 AM
Both those HPLHS flicks are fantastic.

Seen this one? Excellent short based on The Statement Of Randolph Carter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcBADBefsrY

I have not.  I'll check it out.  Cheers.

Quote from: Baron Von Marlon on Apr 26, 2019, 11:55:41 PM
you could try The Nameless City instead. http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/nc.aspx
It's a little similar and a lot shorter. As sometimes is the case with his early work compared to his later ones.

I love that story. It's like Lovecraft's take on the Babylonian tales about fish-people. Now let me get away from Lovecraft for a moment as I find similarities between these Babylonian myths of amphibian beings (previously referenced by the Sumerians as Apkallu) that are sent to Earth in order to share knowledge with people, with Ridley Scott's notion of Engineers sending emissaries to our planet to do the same job.

(https://i.imgur.com/lUvNk2W.jpg)

Probably in real life, they were priests cosplaying animals (other things in common with the Engineers  :laugh:), and the stories were exaggerated over the millennia. But I love it when an artist uses old legends like this to create worlds of dark fantasy and science fiction  :)

Quote from: Monster Man on Apr 27, 2019, 12:52:03 AM
If we're throwing in recs -- don't forget Color of Space. That's also a really good one, Lovecraft's personal favorite.

I bet part of such a legacy lives in this book and movie


However, this Soviet film was an equally great influence on the movie adaptation of director Alex Garland...

Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 29, 2019, 12:15:23 AM
I love that story. It's like Lovecraft's take on the Babylonian tales about fish-people. Now let me get away from Lovecraft for a moment as I find similarities between these Babylonian myths of amphibian beings (previously referenced by the Sumerians as Apkallu) that are sent to Earth in order to share knowledge with people, with Ridley Scott's notion of Engineers sending emissaries to our planet to do the same job.

https://i.imgur.com/lUvNk2W.jpg

They're were talking about similar stuff on the Joe Rogan Experience with Graham Hancock.
And the fact that several different cultures had similar takes on that, and share the handbag symbol.

The Olmecs in the ancient Americas.
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/13821a16b0a7fd4a10a0b97a87b99650/tumblr_o6jspwTsJI1qd479ro1_1280.jpg)

Sumerians is assume, ancient Middle East
(https://i.imgur.com/lUvNk2W.jpg)

All right my belief that the space jockey and the engineers are two separate species. The Space Jockey educated a large population of engineers. Engineers view them as Gods and some of them even copied their tech and Create an armor that is very similar on how the space jockey looks. Space Jockey left the engineers for unknown reason. leaving the engineers for themselves. Some of them went out to space to find them, some of them stay on planets waiting for them to come back, Specific group of engineers decide to a large rock. I don't know what they're gonna do over there. maybe play Tetris

I see it more in an At the Mountains of Madness way (apropos for this thread). Whatever the first ones were, they made something that reached a certain point and made something, that reached a certain point and made something, etc with each iteration becoming less "perfect", technology devolving from true synthesis to atavistic suits, and so on.

........Pilots.

Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Sep 09, 2023, 10:42:40 PMAll right my belief that the space jockey and the engineers are two separate species. The Space Jockey educated a large population of engineers. Engineers view them as Gods and some of them even copied their tech and Create an armor that is very similar on how the space jockey looks. Space Jockey left the engineers for unknown reason. leaving the engineers for themselves. Some of them went out to space to find them, some of them stay on planets waiting for them to come back, Specific group of engineers decide to a large rock. I don't know what they're gonna do over there. maybe play Tetris

Like the idea. Just think that the engineers are humans that reversed engineered the sj tech eons ago. That their events locked us in a time loop that is no longer of use to them with earth as a restart place if things fall apart. The engineer in prom might have tried to stop that.

Quote from: [cancerblack] on Sep 10, 2023, 12:01:13 AMI see it more in an At the Mountains of Madness way (apropos for this thread). Whatever the first ones were, they made something that reached a certain point and made something, that reached a certain point and made something, etc with each iteration becoming less "perfect", technology devolving from true synthesis to atavistic suits, and so on.

I like this idea, alot. Honestly it's sort of perfect for the Alien franchise. There is somewhat underlying tone of creation becoming the creator.

Yeah, I feel it works well with what's been established and suggested in the prequels.

You can add a nameless black horror from The Outer Dark making some kind of species-wide biological pact with the firstborn race, granting great biotechnological power at a terrible cost, if that's your thing.

Quote from: [cancerblack] on Sep 10, 2023, 09:51:25 PMYeah, I feel it works well with what's been established and suggested in the prequels.

You can add a nameless black horror from The Outer Dark making some kind of species-wide biological pact with the firstborn race, granting great biotechnological power at a terrible cost, if that's your thing.

Maybe, I feel like this would work best if the Xenomorph were not bio weapons but were just ancient creatures from space, with the black goo having some sort of connection to it. The reason why they're called the perfect organism is just the Species were born that way. Sure the Space Jockey, engineer, and human superior with technology, to reach the star but the xenomorph has a stronger will to live. Honestly alien theory does a better job describing this in this video at 5:02
This might be the reason to not just our downfall but for everyone's downfall when we are at war with a creature that doesn't have a name. Yes we call it xenomorph but that's just a generic term for any species. How many names does past species give this specific one before they were Inevitably wipe out by creature. Maybe it isn't just a species, it's a event to test us to see if we are strong enough to win against the nameless ones. But the results are always going to be the same, with a big fat no, because we are not perfect like our creators before us and their creators and beyond. Xenomorph is the fermi paradox.

Maybe I'm talking from scratch here. There's probably a lot of alot of Evidence that could go against this theory. I don't know maybe you could give your criticism to this theory. Is it thought provoking or it's just dumb

This deserves a proper reply, but I'm on my phone all day today and I'd rather wait til I'm at the computer later on.

That alright dude

This for me is similar to the "what canon do you prefer" thread. Some will go strictly as to what the film shows or what was intended - meaning the space jockeys are engineers and vice versa.

Myself personally, the engineers are a sub species of a more ancient form of beings that are the space jockeys.

The space jockeys knew of the xenomorph (but did not create it, maybe tried to harness them) and they are the "ancient" beings of their universe.

The engineers are the more advanced race from these beings and the black goo is just thousands of years of perfection of weapons - like the musket ball to the atom bomb.

But once again, just my canon.

I feel 'Prometheus' answered this with a question; "They created us.. but who created them? We'll never know. But here's what we do know..."

So my personal head canon like many other here; The Pilots created the engineers, who revered them as gods. Eventually the engineers themselves became technologically advanced (hell, if you want to take into account the hologram on board the derelict in 'Aliens: Colonial Marines', then the derelict was engaged in a space battle with a flying saucer... 2000+ years ago we saw engineers using a flying saucer when seeding Earth (or paradise, depending how you read that scene). Perhaps engineers stole Pilot tech and recreated it themselves - notice the engineers who seeded Earth had no body augments yet. Eventually, like their creators, the engineers created humans in their own image, to be revered as gods... paradise saw a success story, as the human civilisation there flourished under their rule (until David wiped them out) - Earth on the other hand was not so successful, when we crucified an engineer and drove out our creators, causing them to prepare a pathogen to wipe out their rebellious failures. We, like our creators, became technologically advanced and created synthetics in our own image, to obey us..as Peter Weyland put it "we are the gods now" ...and we know later in Alien history, synthetics will design Autons in their own image (such as Call in Alien Resurrection) - the cycle repeats endlessly.

Now the question is; does the cycle of the Xenomorph also loop endlessly... we saw ovomorphs in the hold of the derelict...and urns in the hold of the juggernaut.. in the same way the engineers developed the pathogen based upon the Xenomorph (as per the mural) what would man have created based upon the pathogen? We know what David created (reverse engineered) and he got it pretty darn close to the source, but had it not been a synthetic creating this, I wonder what monstrosity man may have created from the pathogen over time.. perhaps that's what the alien is.. the universe's/evolutions answer and reset button to kickstart the next cycle..the Xenomorph destroyed the pilots, the pathogen destroyed the engineers...perhaps our bio weapon (the Ripley/Xeno hybrid xenos)is what will eventually destroy us and pave the way for Autons time to reign 😂

Quote from: Acid_Reign161 on Sep 11, 2023, 06:47:37 PMI feel 'Prometheus' answered this with a question; "They created us.. but who created them? We'll never know. But here's what we do know..."

So my personal head canon like many other here; The Pilots created the engineers, who revered them as gods. Eventually the engineers themselves became technologically advanced (hell, if you want to take into account the hologram on board the derelict in 'Aliens: Colonial Marines', then the derelict was engaged in a space battle with a flying saucer... 2000+ years ago we saw engineers using a flying saucer when seeding Earth (or paradise, depending how you read that scene). Perhaps engineers stole Pilot tech and recreated it themselves - notice the engineers who seeded Earth had no body augments yet. Eventually, like their creators, the engineers created humans in their own image, to be revered as gods... paradise saw a success story, as the human civilisation there flourished under their rule (until David wiped them out) - Earth on the other hand was not so successful, when we crucified an engineer and drove out our creators, causing them to prepare a pathogen to wipe out their rebellious failures. We, like our creators, became technologically advanced and created synthetics in our own image, to obey us..as Peter Weyland put it "we are the gods now" ...and we know later in Alien history, synthetics will design Autons in their own image (such as Call in Alien Resurrection) - the cycle repeats endlessly.

Now the question is; does the cycle of the Xenomorph also loop endlessly... we saw ovomorphs in the hold of the derelict...and urns in the hold of the juggernaut.. in the same way the engineers developed the pathogen based upon the Xenomorph (as per the mural) what would man have created based upon the pathogen? We know what David created (reverse engineered) and he got it pretty darn close to the source, but had it not been a synthetic creating this, I wonder what monstrosity man may have created from the pathogen over time.. perhaps that's what the alien is.. the universe's/evolutions answer and reset button to kickstart the next cycle..the Xenomorph destroyed the pilots, the pathogen destroyed the engineers...perhaps our bio weapon (the Ripley/Xeno hybrid xenos)is what will eventually destroy us and pave the way for Autons time to reign 😂

I wonder what the very first alien looked like then, maybe nothing even close to what we're used to. Like how a chicken is the long lost relative of the trex lol

Quote from: littlesprout on Sep 11, 2023, 10:51:31 PM

Quote from: Acid_Reign161 on Sep 11, 2023, 06:47:37 PMI feel 'Prometheus' answered this with a question; "They created us.. but who created them? We'll never know. But here's what we do know..."

So my personal head canon like many other here; The Pilots created the engineers, who revered them as gods. Eventually the engineers themselves became technologically advanced (hell, if you want to take into account the hologram on board the derelict in 'Aliens: Colonial Marines', then the derelict was engaged in a space battle with a flying saucer... 2000+ years ago we saw engineers using a flying saucer when seeding Earth (or paradise, depending how you read that scene). Perhaps engineers stole Pilot tech and recreated it themselves - notice the engineers who seeded Earth had no body augments yet. Eventually, like their creators, the engineers created humans in their own image, to be revered as gods... paradise saw a success story, as the human civilisation there flourished under their rule (until David wiped them out) - Earth on the other hand was not so successful, when we crucified an engineer and drove out our creators, causing them to prepare a pathogen to wipe out their rebellious failures. We, like our creators, became technologically advanced and created synthetics in our own image, to obey us..as Peter Weyland put it "we are the gods now" ...and we know later in Alien history, synthetics will design Autons in their own image (such as Call in Alien Resurrection) - the cycle repeats endlessly.

Now the question is; does the cycle of the Xenomorph also loop endlessly... we saw ovomorphs in the hold of the derelict...and urns in the hold of the juggernaut.. in the same way the engineers developed the pathogen based upon the Xenomorph (as per the mural) what would man have created based upon the pathogen? We know what David created (reverse engineered) and he got it pretty darn close to the source, but had it not been a synthetic creating this, I wonder what monstrosity man may have created from the pathogen over time.. perhaps that's what the alien is.. the universe's/evolutions answer and reset button to kickstart the next cycle..the Xenomorph destroyed the pilots, the pathogen destroyed the engineers...perhaps our bio weapon (the Ripley/Xeno hybrid xenos)is what will eventually destroy us and pave the way for Autons time to reign 😂

I wonder what the very first alien looked like then, maybe nothing even close to what we're used to. Like how a chicken is the long lost relative of the trex lol

Maybe something more like Giger's early concept art? 😃 consider the piece showing the alien life cycle, framed by a creature (a parallel to the Egyptian goddess Nuit)with the small egg being born from its stomach before growing to full size and infecting the Jockey... not at all unlike David later making ovomorphs from Shaws ovaries 😁

Quote from: Acid_Reign161 on Sep 11, 2023, 06:47:37 PMI feel 'Prometheus' answered this with a question; "They created us.. but who created them? We'll never know. But here's what we do know..."

How about this😅...

The Alien is ancient, but the Engineers didn't create it, they found it. Searching for the homeworld of their creators, they come across a  biomechanical planet; built by an unseen extraterrestrial species, beings that may exist across multiple dimensions. The artificial celestial body is controlled by a hive intelligence; something like an alien Von Neumann machine:



From the bio brain data, the Engineers discover that the Aliens are feral cousins genetically related to the Creators.

The biobrain used the Alien's parasitic DNA to create the black pathogen; nanomachines that, after breaking down an organism at a molecular level, can use its DNA to plant life on planets.


The Engineers went from creations to creators, and created a religion whose center of worship was the Alien.


They choose a young member of their civilization to be sacrificed and use their DNA to seed worlds.


It sounds like bad fanfiction, but I couldn't resist posting it..😅

Did you create these images yourself?

Well yeah in a way😅, but at the same time not really lol..i mean
..alittle bit of everything: prompts with AI, video editing apps, sometimes the giphy app, online conversion from mpa4 to gif addobe, remove background site and that is it. :)🙏

Anki: I'm going to walk a path
which I have never walked through, I'm going on a trip unknown to me.

They brought me my armor, my powerful swords,
the bow and the quiver,
and they put it in my hands.

I took the adzes,  trembling of me,
the arch of Anshan;
I put the sword in my belt.

Now I'm ready.


2 different castes / cultures...with different agendas. The Elders high priest-like ones and the bio-punk one. Maybe space jockeys?


Anki sets off on his journey, while a curious but worried Erish watches from the city's exit.

He doesn't travel alone. He is accompanied by Eshkar & Amah. Eshkar is a warrior just like Anki, while Amah is an architect.

This was an expedition to a forbidden place; to the Temple of the God of war Marduk.

For millennia, the Sumerians have been visited by their creators, in the form of emissaries in order to enlighten humanity with knowledge.


Leaving their dangerous offspring behind.


....and maybe even the Space Jockey pilot become the starship itself.

Edit ~ it is all horseshite amyways😅👍🙈🙊


😒👉👈

Very interesting.
It's amazing to see that there are some fans who are inspired by the prequel story, or at least the general direction of it, to expand the story or bring it to a somewhat reasonable conclusion.
I really liked the setting of both prequels and the pictures you post here are in no way inferior.
the temple-like buildings with the biomechanical structure look great.
Oh, it would have been nice if Prometheus and Covenant had had a more solid structure in the story and didn't raise endless questions...

I suck at writing😅 I'm just trying to give context to my AI prompts...🙈

(https://s9.gifyu.com/images/SF1jt.gif)

▶️ There were gianst on Earth in twose days - Fanfiction (https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=67124.msg2631610#msg2631610)

More silly sad stories 👀👉👈

(https://s9.gifyu.com/images/SFyU5.gif)

▶️ Shitty fanfic (https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=67124.msg2631691#msg2631691)

Spoiler

Is Dark Descent the first official "canon" source to indicate they are a different species? Or are the "Ancient Citizens" even a third species?

[close]

---

Quote from: Wweyland on Mar 03, 2024, 08:29:55 AM

Spoiler

Is Dark Descent the first official "canon" source to indicate they are a different species? Or are the "Ancient Citizens" even a third species?

[close]

The movies weigh more canonically speaking, but yes. Dark Descent definitely drew quite a cosmic horror contrast with the pilots as something different from the Engineers of the prequels. Oh and the ancient citizens of planet 4 are Engineers. But overall I agree with the idea that the Engineers who pilot the Juggernauts often experiment with their biology.

Quote from: Predaker on Jun 26, 2017, 05:05:11 PMThe engineers are a retcon of the space jockey. If it's going to be anything other than that, I'd want the jockey to be inseparable from the ship (as was frequently depicted in Giger's artwork.)

I never felt it was a retcon, we knew hardly anything about the jockeys in the films, Scott simply expanded their mythos. It may not have been to many fans liking, but it is not a retcon. For that we would need established lore beyond the visuals of Alien to be a retcon proper.

Yeah, but I rather have skeleton elephant man over a baldheaded white dude.

Spoiler

At lease, dark decent, sort of added the space jockey into existence again in a way if that Game is canon.

[close]

Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Mar 26, 2024, 04:56:23 AMYeah, but I rather have skeleton elephant man over a baldheaded white dude.

Spoiler

At lease, dark decent, sort of added the space jockey into existence again in a way if that Game is canon.

[close]

I admit they should have had them look as they did in the chair and be a different than human species, and perhaps the albino giants (white dudes) are their first generation of seeding worlds, and humans the more perfect generation, hence why Xenomorph proper needs a human rather than an Engineer.

Quote from: E. Shaw on Mar 26, 2024, 05:17:35 AM

Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Mar 26, 2024, 04:56:23 AMYeah, but I rather have skeleton elephant man over a baldheaded white dude.

Spoiler

At lease, dark decent, sort of added the space jockey into existence again in a way if that Game is canon.

[close]

I admit they should have had them look as they did in the chair and be a different than human species, and perhaps the albino giants (white dudes) are their first generation of seeding worlds, and humans the more perfect generation, hence why Xenomorph proper needs a human rather than an Engineer.

I think that Space jockey encountered the engineers. This event would result in the engineers getting the inspiration of biotech that the space jockey use, Even made and use suits that resembled the space jockeys.
Basically, the engineers are extremely religious species that worship the Space jockeys. That's basically my head canon.

Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Mar 26, 2024, 04:56:23 AMYeah, but I rather have skeleton elephant man over a baldheaded white dude.

Spoiler

At lease, dark decent, sort of added the space jockey into existence again in a way if that Game is canon.

[close]

You can have both without too many contortions, or even reaching for the EU.

Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Mar 26, 2024, 07:06:34 AM

Quote from: E. Shaw on Mar 26, 2024, 05:17:35 AM

Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Mar 26, 2024, 04:56:23 AMYeah, but I rather have skeleton elephant man over a baldheaded white dude.

Spoiler

At lease, dark decent, sort of added the space jockey into existence again in a way if that Game is canon.

[close]

I admit they should have had them look as they did in the chair and be a different than human species, and perhaps the albino giants (white dudes) are their first generation of seeding worlds, and humans the more perfect generation, hence why Xenomorph proper needs a human rather than an Engineer.

I think that Space jockey encountered the engineers. This event would result in the engineers getting the inspiration of biotech that the space jockey use, Even made and use suits that resembled the space jockeys.
Basically, the engineers are extremely religious species that worship the Space jockeys. That's basically my head canon.

Perhaps at the beginning of Prometheus that round ship is Spacejockies observing The Sacrifice. 

Quote from: [cancerblack] on Mar 26, 2024, 07:30:03 AM

Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Mar 26, 2024, 04:56:23 AMYeah, but I rather have skeleton elephant man over a baldheaded white dude.

Spoiler

At lease, dark decent, sort of added the space jockey into existence again in a way if that Game is canon.

[close]

You can have both without too many contortions, or even reaching for the EU.

Yeah exactly it's not too much of stress to think that both concept can exist. It's just that I don't like the idea of the engineers are actually just space jockeys just wearing suits. I just find that lame.

---

Quote from: E. Shaw on Mar 26, 2024, 08:02:30 AM

Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Mar 26, 2024, 07:06:34 AM

Quote from: E. Shaw on Mar 26, 2024, 05:17:35 AM

Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Mar 26, 2024, 04:56:23 AMYeah, but I rather have skeleton elephant man over a baldheaded white dude.

Spoiler

At lease, dark decent, sort of added the space jockey into existence again in a way if that Game is canon.

[close]

I admit they should have had them look as they did in the chair and be a different than human species, and perhaps the albino giants (white dudes) are their first generation of seeding worlds, and humans the more perfect generation, hence why Xenomorph proper needs a human rather than an Engineer.

I think that Space jockey encountered the engineers. This event would result in the engineers getting the inspiration of biotech that the space jockey use, Even made and use suits that resembled the space jockeys.
Basically, the engineers are extremely religious species that worship the Space jockeys. That's basically my head canon.

Perhaps at the beginning of Prometheus that round ship is Spacejockies observing The Sacrifice. 

We can't be sure for lack of evidence, but I like the idea. But the ship doesn't look too biomechanical.

---

After re-watching the scene, mice, they've not been of it being biomechanical. It's a little shaky, because we never got a close look at it.

Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Mar 26, 2024, 08:05:58 AM

Quote from: [cancerblack] on Mar 26, 2024, 07:30:03 AM

Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Mar 26, 2024, 04:56:23 AMYeah, but I rather have skeleton elephant man over a baldheaded white dude.

Spoiler

At lease, dark decent, sort of added the space jockey into existence again in a way if that Game is canon.

[close]

You can have both without too many contortions, or even reaching for the EU.

Yeah exactly it's not too much of stress to think that both concept can exist. It's just that I don't like the idea of the engineers are actually just space jockeys just wearing suits. I just find that lame.

---

Quote from: E. Shaw on Mar 26, 2024, 08:02:30 AM

Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Mar 26, 2024, 07:06:34 AM

Quote from: E. Shaw on Mar 26, 2024, 05:17:35 AM

Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Mar 26, 2024, 04:56:23 AMYeah, but I rather have skeleton elephant man over a baldheaded white dude.

Spoiler

At lease, dark decent, sort of added the space jockey into existence again in a way if that Game is canon.

[close]

I admit they should have had them look as they did in the chair and be a different than human species, and perhaps the albino giants (white dudes) are their first generation of seeding worlds, and humans the more perfect generation, hence why Xenomorph proper needs a human rather than an Engineer.

I think that Space jockey encountered the engineers. This event would result in the engineers getting the inspiration of biotech that the space jockey use, Even made and use suits that resembled the space jockeys.
Basically, the engineers are extremely religious species that worship the Space jockeys. That's basically my head canon.

Perhaps at the beginning of Prometheus that round ship is Spacejockies observing The Sacrifice. 

We can't be sure for lack of evidence, but I like the idea. But the ship doesn't look too biomechanical.

---

After re-watching the scene, mice, they've not been of it being biomechanical. It's a little shaky, because we never got a close look at it.

Probably more of Ridley not able to decide if Prometheus was a new story or connected to the Alienverse. The film had moments when you can see he was going to go into another direction, so the flying saucer is there and then later he commits to the Derelict design,