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http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/23891/1/neill-blomkamp-wants-to-take-alien-back-to-its-roots (http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/23891/1/neill-blomkamp-wants-to-take-alien-back-to-its-roots)
"It's the inverse in that now I get to make the third film of the first two, which I think never happened. I think they made the first two and then went off the rails with these other ones. I wanna try as a fan to fill in that gap. It all stems from being probably one of the most ego-less directors in Hollywood and I think that that plays a big role. If you're inward focused and narcissistic and thinking about your fans then that's when weird shit starts happening. If you stay grounded then you can make stuff that actually is balanced and has something to say. I don't want to give much away but what I can say confidently is that Alien and Aliens are my favourite films and where it went after Aliens was incorrect to me as a fan. I didn't want that world, I wanted the first two and that's what I want to go back to."

it seems that now is quite clear that a3 and AR will be dismissed. At least that's what he wants, that the studio agrees and its what finally happens it's another thing.

Im pretty curious about Fincher's opinion on that.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Mar 02, 2015, 05:31:19 PM
Who says they worship death?  The scope of their religion has only been hinted at.

We're all "digital" creatures in a way.  Every fibre of our existence is held together by the "information" contained within our DNA...

They worship death because the organisms, including the Alien, die in multiple instars, are not a solid lifetime. In the beginning of the film, an Engineer ceremonially drinks a corrosive substance that reassembles his genetic material into new cells. They clearly work on a level of economy that is reactionary and drenched in social darwinism. The society they lives in, does not have much room for individuality, aside from the triumph of civilization in a fascist way.

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 05:41:34 PM
http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/23891/1/neill-blomkamp-wants-to-take-alien-back-to-its-roots (http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/23891/1/neill-blomkamp-wants-to-take-alien-back-to-its-roots)
"It's the inverse in that now I get to make the third film of the first two, which I think never happened. I think they made the first two and then went off the rails with these other ones. I wanna try as a fan to fill in that gap. It all stems from being probably one of the most ego-less directors in Hollywood and I think that that plays a big role. If you're inward focused and narcissistic and thinking about your fans then that's when weird shit starts happening. If you stay grounded then you can make stuff that actually is balanced and has something to say. I don't want to give much away but what I can say confidently is that Alien and Aliens are my favourite films and where it went after Aliens was incorrect to me as a fan. I didn't want that world, I wanted the first two and that's what I want to go back to."

it seems that now is quite clear that a3 and AR will be dismissed. At least that's what he wants, that the studio agrees and its what finally happens it's another thing.

There you go, people. Thanks for the link, Tough little S.O.B.

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 05:41:34 PM
http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/23891/1/neill-blomkamp-wants-to-take-alien-back-to-its-roots (http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/23891/1/neill-blomkamp-wants-to-take-alien-back-to-its-roots)
"It's the inverse in that now I get to make the third film of the first two, which I think never happened. I think they made the first two and then went off the rails with these other ones. I wanna try as a fan to fill in that gap. It all stems from being probably one of the most ego-less directors in Hollywood and I think that that plays a big role. If you're inward focused and narcissistic and thinking about your fans then that's when weird shit starts happening. If you stay grounded then you can make stuff that actually is balanced and has something to say. I don't want to give much away but what I can say confidently is that Alien and Aliens are my favourite films and where it went after Aliens was incorrect to me as a fan. I didn't want that world, I wanted the first two and that's what I want to go back to."

it seems that now is quite clear that a3 and AR will be dismissed. At least that's what he wants, that the studio agrees and its what finally happens it's another thing.

Im pretty curious about Fincher's opinion on that.

Well there you have it. I'm sure Fincher will be relieved.

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 05:41:34 PM"It's the inverse in that now I get to make the third film of the first two, which I think never happened. I think they made the first two and then went off the rails with these other ones. I wanna try as a fan to fill in that gap. It all stems from being probably one of the most ego-less directors in Hollywood and I think that that plays a big role. If you're inward focused and narcissistic and thinking about your fans then that's when weird shit starts happening. If you stay grounded then you can make stuff that actually is balanced and has something to say. I don't want to give much away but what I can say confidently is that Alien and Aliens are my favourite films and where it went after Aliens was incorrect to me as a fan. I didn't want that world, I wanted the first two and that's what I want to go back to."

"Fill in the gap" to me sounds like film set between two and three.

Well, As long as they make a great movie, let them do the ffff they want.

I'm sorry for A3 tho. I love that movie.

---

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 02, 2015, 05:48:30 PM

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 05:41:34 PM"It's the inverse in that now I get to make the third film of the first two, which I think never happened. I think they made the first two and then went off the rails with these other ones. I wanna try as a fan to fill in that gap. It all stems from being probably one of the most ego-less directors in Hollywood and I think that that plays a big role. If you're inward focused and narcissistic and thinking about your fans then that's when weird shit starts happening. If you stay grounded then you can make stuff that actually is balanced and has something to say. I don't want to give much away but what I can say confidently is that Alien and Aliens are my favourite films and where it went after Aliens was incorrect to me as a fan. I didn't want that world, I wanted the first two and that's what I want to go back to."

"Fill in the gap" to me sounds like film set between two and three.

I truly don't see how can yo do it and account for the age difference....

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 05:41:34 PM
http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/23891/1/neill-blomkamp-wants-to-take-alien-back-to-its-roots (http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/23891/1/neill-blomkamp-wants-to-take-alien-back-to-its-roots)
"It's the inverse in that now I get to make the third film of the first two, which I think never happened. I think they made the first two and then went off the rails with these other ones. I wanna try as a fan to fill in that gap. It all stems from being probably one of the most ego-less directors in Hollywood and I think that that plays a big role. If you're inward focused and narcissistic and thinking about your fans then that's when weird shit starts happening. If you stay grounded then you can make stuff that actually is balanced and has something to say. I don't want to give much away but what I can say confidently is that Alien and Aliens are my favourite films and where it went after Aliens was incorrect to me as a fan. I didn't want that world, I wanted the first two and that's what I want to go back to."

it seems that now is quite clear that a3 and AR will be dismissed. At least that's what he wants, that the studio agrees and its what finally happens it's another thing.

Im pretty curious about Fincher's opinion on that.

That's great news. I'm very interested to see Blomkamp's take on Alien. Hope this doesn't get canned like his Halo adaptation from years past. I'm starting to get really excited for this.

As long as the movie is good, I'm not going to be bothered by what they decide to do vis-a-vis A3 and Resurrection, even though I enjoy those moves. They'll always exist to enjoy either way.

So... Alien 3 and Resurrection ARE being ignored then? There we have it folks.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 02, 2015, 05:48:30 PM

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 05:41:34 PM"It's the inverse in that now I get to make the third film of the first two, which I think never happened. I think they made the first two and then went off the rails with these other ones. I wanna try as a fan to fill in that gap. It all stems from being probably one of the most ego-less directors in Hollywood and I think that that plays a big role. If you're inward focused and narcissistic and thinking about your fans then that's when weird shit starts happening. If you stay grounded then you can make stuff that actually is balanced and has something to say. I don't want to give much away but what I can say confidently is that Alien and Aliens are my favourite films and where it went after Aliens was incorrect to me as a fan. I didn't want that world, I wanted the first two and that's what I want to go back to."

"Fill in the gap" to me sounds like film set between two and three.

Taken contextually, not really. He says "now I get to make the third film of the first two, which I think never happened," that's what constitutes the "gap" that he is "filling". Otherwise, it's pretty clear what he means.

I thought I wouldn't get hyped, but I gotta say I'm already boarding the hypetrain, to hypetown.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.dazedcdn.com%2F786x700%2Fdd%2F1110%2F2%2F1112758.jpg&hash=3332197cc60498b9dcc8f3cb7324051b2df6e957)

Nice to see the full view of this one concept. Definitely looks like a cocooned person /egg-morphing person to me.

Quote from: Omegazilla on Mar 02, 2015, 05:56:44 PM
Taken contextually, not really. He says "now I get to make the third film of the first two, which I think never happened," that's what constitutes the "gap" that he is "filling". Otherwise, it's pretty clear what he means.

Doing what The Return of Godzilla (Godzilla 1985) did when it ignored the previous Showa era films and served as a direct sequel to the original 1954. Or what Halloween H20 did when it ignored IV through VI.

Now give us a multiverse, Fox... We'll buy all your shit.

Quote from: Omegazilla on Mar 02, 2015, 05:56:44 PM

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 02, 2015, 05:48:30 PM

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 05:41:34 PM"It's the inverse in that now I get to make the third film of the first two, which I think never happened. I think they made the first two and then went off the rails with these other ones. I wanna try as a fan to fill in that gap. It all stems from being probably one of the most ego-less directors in Hollywood and I think that that plays a big role. If you're inward focused and narcissistic and thinking about your fans then that's when weird shit starts happening. If you stay grounded then you can make stuff that actually is balanced and has something to say. I don't want to give much away but what I can say confidently is that Alien and Aliens are my favourite films and where it went after Aliens was incorrect to me as a fan. I didn't want that world, I wanted the first two and that's what I want to go back to."

"Fill in the gap" to me sounds like film set between two and three.

Taken contextually, not really. He says "now I get to make the third film of the first two, which I think never happened," that's what constitutes the "gap" that he is "filling". Otherwise, it's pretty clear what he means.

Agreed, that's what my impression was.

I like how clearly, Ridley has some hand behind all this in allowing it to happen. First it was totally wiping the AvP films canon Weyland background, now writing over Alien3/Alien:R. It's clear, that at least the thought going around is "Hey, why don't, give this another shot, and see where it takes us." Someone up top knows the potential the franchise has. (even though I love Alien 3)

I don't think Scott had anything to do with Blomkamp's pitch.

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Mar 02, 2015, 06:09:25 PM
I don't think Scott had anything to do with Blomkamp's pitch.

I didn't say he did. I'm just saying it seems like he did, or I'm assuming he's happy given his desire to write over the two AvP films.

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 05:41:34 PM
http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/23891/1/neill-blomkamp-wants-to-take-alien-back-to-its-roots (http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/23891/1/neill-blomkamp-wants-to-take-alien-back-to-its-roots)
"It's the inverse in that now I get to make the third film of the first two, which I think never happened. I think they made the first two and then went off the rails with these other ones. I wanna try as a fan to fill in that gap. It all stems from being probably one of the most ego-less directors in Hollywood and I think that that plays a big role. If you're inward focused and narcissistic and thinking about your fans then that's when weird shit starts happening. If you stay grounded then you can make stuff that actually is balanced and has something to say. I don't want to give much away but what I can say confidently is that Alien and Aliens are my favourite films and where it went after Aliens was incorrect to me as a fan. I didn't want that world, I wanted the first two and that's what I want to go back to."

it seems that now is quite clear that a3 and AR will be dismissed. At least that's what he wants, that the studio agrees and its what finally happens it's another thing.

Im pretty curious about Fincher's opinion on that.

Amen to that!

To be fair, the AvP, Alien 3 and Resurrection films... I don't think they're being written out. They're just ignored. Not acknowledged in anyway, even if they were to be written out they'd have to be acknowledged.. which in this case, might not necessarily be so.

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 05:41:34 PM
Im pretty curious about Fincher's opinion on that.

During the making of Alien 3 Fincher expressed a desire to burn the whole thing down and start anew. He didn't really like anything about the script or story but hands were tied due to the millions pumped into the production. I imagine he'd be a little envious of Blomkamp right now; a young director with some films to his name, which is the only thing Fincher was lacking at the time - a resume with a critically acclaimed film on it. Either that or he wouldn't care; he despises his entry in the series.

Quote from: RakaiThwei on Mar 02, 2015, 06:14:38 PM
To be fair, the AvP, Alien 3 and Resurrection films... I don't think they're being written out. They're just ignored. Not acknowledged in anyway, even if they were to be written out they'd have to be acknowledged.. which in this case, might not necessarily be so.

You get what I mean

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 02, 2015, 06:07:44 PM
I like how clearly, Ridley has some hand behind all this in allowing it to happen. First it was totally wiping the AvP films canon Weyland background, now writing over Alien3/Alien:R. It's clear, that at least the thought going around is "Hey, why don't, give this another shot, and see where it takes us." Someone up top knows the potential the franchise has. (even though I love Alien 3)

I hope he had been as thoughtful when doing that prometheus crap...

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 06:21:48 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 02, 2015, 06:07:44 PM
I like how clearly, Ridley has some hand behind all this in allowing it to happen. First it was totally wiping the AvP films canon Weyland background, now writing over Alien3/Alien:R. It's clear, that at least the thought going around is "Hey, why don't, give this another shot, and see where it takes us." Someone up top knows the potential the franchise has. (even though I love Alien 3)

I hope he had been as thoughtful when doing that prometheus crap...

It's not that bad.

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 05:41:34 PM
http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/23891/1/neill-blomkamp-wants-to-take-alien-back-to-its-roots (http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/23891/1/neill-blomkamp-wants-to-take-alien-back-to-its-roots)
"It's the inverse in that now I get to make the third film of the first two, which I think never happened. I think they made the first two and then went off the rails with these other ones. I wanna try as a fan to fill in that gap. It all stems from being probably one of the most ego-less directors in Hollywood and I think that that plays a big role. If you're inward focused and narcissistic and thinking about your fans then that's when weird shit starts happening. If you stay grounded then you can make stuff that actually is balanced and has something to say. I don't want to give much away but what I can say confidently is that Alien and Aliens are my favourite films and where it went after Aliens was incorrect to me as a fan. I didn't want that world, I wanted the first two and that's what I want to go back to."

it seems that now is quite clear that a3 and AR will be dismissed. At least that's what he wants, that the studio agrees and its what finally happens it's another thing.

Im pretty curious about Fincher's opinion on that.

Awesome.  I think its pretty obvious at this point that Alien V will ignore A3 and A:R.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 02, 2015, 06:22:37 PM

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 06:21:48 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 02, 2015, 06:07:44 PM
I like how clearly, Ridley has some hand behind all this in allowing it to happen. First it was totally wiping the AvP films canon Weyland background, now writing over Alien3/Alien:R. It's clear, that at least the thought going around is "Hey, why don't, give this another shot, and see where it takes us." Someone up top knows the potential the franchise has. (even though I love Alien 3)

I hope he had been as thoughtful when doing that prometheus crap...

It's not that bad.

horrible.

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 06:25:21 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 02, 2015, 06:22:37 PM

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 06:21:48 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 02, 2015, 06:07:44 PM
I like how clearly, Ridley has some hand behind all this in allowing it to happen. First it was totally wiping the AvP films canon Weyland background, now writing over Alien3/Alien:R. It's clear, that at least the thought going around is "Hey, why don't, give this another shot, and see where it takes us." Someone up top knows the potential the franchise has. (even though I love Alien 3)

I hope he had been as thoughtful when doing that prometheus crap...

It's not that bad.

horrible.

Flawed.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 02, 2015, 06:25:45 PM

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 06:25:21 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 02, 2015, 06:22:37 PM

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 06:21:48 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 02, 2015, 06:07:44 PM
I like how clearly, Ridley has some hand behind all this in allowing it to happen. First it was totally wiping the AvP films canon Weyland background, now writing over Alien3/Alien:R. It's clear, that at least the thought going around is "Hey, why don't, give this another shot, and see where it takes us." Someone up top knows the potential the franchise has. (even though I love Alien 3)

I hope he had been as thoughtful when doing that prometheus crap...

It's not that bad.

horrible.

Flawed.

Abominable!

Quote from: Adam802 on Mar 02, 2015, 06:22:45 PM

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 05:41:34 PM
http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/23891/1/neill-blomkamp-wants-to-take-alien-back-to-its-roots (http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/23891/1/neill-blomkamp-wants-to-take-alien-back-to-its-roots)
"It's the inverse in that now I get to make the third film of the first two, which I think never happened. I think they made the first two and then went off the rails with these other ones. I wanna try as a fan to fill in that gap. It all stems from being probably one of the most ego-less directors in Hollywood and I think that that plays a big role. If you're inward focused and narcissistic and thinking about your fans then that's when weird shit starts happening. If you stay grounded then you can make stuff that actually is balanced and has something to say. I don't want to give much away but what I can say confidently is that Alien and Aliens are my favourite films and where it went after Aliens was incorrect to me as a fan. I didn't want that world, I wanted the first two and that's what I want to go back to."

it seems that now is quite clear that a3 and AR will be dismissed. At least that's what he wants, that the studio agrees and its what finally happens it's another thing.

Im pretty curious about Fincher's opinion on that.

Awesome.  I think its pretty obvious at this point that Alien V will ignore A3 and A:R.

At least that this are his intentions...what happens finally we will see.

---

Quote from: Omegazilla on Mar 02, 2015, 06:26:16 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 02, 2015, 06:25:45 PM

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 06:25:21 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 02, 2015, 06:22:37 PM

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 06:21:48 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 02, 2015, 06:07:44 PM
I like how clearly, Ridley has some hand behind all this in allowing it to happen. First it was totally wiping the AvP films canon Weyland background, now writing over Alien3/Alien:R. It's clear, that at least the thought going around is "Hey, why don't, give this another shot, and see where it takes us." Someone up top knows the potential the franchise has. (even though I love Alien 3)

I hope he had been as thoughtful when doing that prometheus crap...

It's not that bad.

horrible.

Flawed.

Abominable!

THE FLUTE.

Quote from: Omegazilla on Mar 02, 2015, 06:26:16 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 02, 2015, 06:25:45 PM

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 06:25:21 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 02, 2015, 06:22:37 PM

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 06:21:48 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 02, 2015, 06:07:44 PM
I like how clearly, Ridley has some hand behind all this in allowing it to happen. First it was totally wiping the AvP films canon Weyland background, now writing over Alien3/Alien:R. It's clear, that at least the thought going around is "Hey, why don't, give this another shot, and see where it takes us." Someone up top knows the potential the franchise has. (even though I love Alien 3)

I hope he had been as thoughtful when doing that prometheus crap...

It's not that bad.

horrible.

Flawed.

Abominable!

I didn't like Dredd either.

See, now that's a crime! :o

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 02, 2015, 06:25:45 PM

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 06:25:21 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 02, 2015, 06:22:37 PM

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 06:21:48 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 02, 2015, 06:07:44 PM
I like how clearly, Ridley has some hand behind all this in allowing it to happen. First it was totally wiping the AvP films canon Weyland background, now writing over Alien3/Alien:R. It's clear, that at least the thought going around is "Hey, why don't, give this another shot, and see where it takes us." Someone up top knows the potential the franchise has. (even though I love Alien 3)

I hope he had been as thoughtful when doing that prometheus crap...

It's not that bad.

horrible.

Flawed.

Brilliant.  3rd best film in franchise after Aliens and Alien.  Aliens in first place of course.  Prometheus was a stroke of genius.

Life in an isocube.

---

Life in an isocube.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi18.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb133%2Freaper06%2Fbetrayedthelaw2.jpg&hash=0494f3706f31a8c7bdcf6c02fbac9bda01ff63b9)

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 02, 2015, 06:29:49 PM

Quote from: Omegazilla on Mar 02, 2015, 06:26:16 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 02, 2015, 06:25:45 PM

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 06:25:21 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 02, 2015, 06:22:37 PM

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 06:21:48 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 02, 2015, 06:07:44 PM
I like how clearly, Ridley has some hand behind all this in allowing it to happen. First it was totally wiping the AvP films canon Weyland background, now writing over Alien3/Alien:R. It's clear, that at least the thought going around is "Hey, why don't, give this another shot, and see where it takes us." Someone up top knows the potential the franchise has. (even though I love Alien 3)

I hope he had been as thoughtful when doing that prometheus crap...

It's not that bad.

horrible.

Flawed.

Abominable!

I didn't like Dredd either.

dont get it to personal man...

Dredd was a nice remake of The Raid.

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 06:33:49 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 02, 2015, 06:29:49 PM

Quote from: Omegazilla on Mar 02, 2015, 06:26:16 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 02, 2015, 06:25:45 PM

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 06:25:21 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 02, 2015, 06:22:37 PM

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 06:21:48 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 02, 2015, 06:07:44 PM
I like how clearly, Ridley has some hand behind all this in allowing it to happen. First it was totally wiping the AvP films canon Weyland background, now writing over Alien3/Alien:R. It's clear, that at least the thought going around is "Hey, why don't, give this another shot, and see where it takes us." Someone up top knows the potential the franchise has. (even though I love Alien 3)

I hope he had been as thoughtful when doing that prometheus crap...

It's not that bad.

horrible.

Flawed.

Abominable!

I didn't like Dredd either.

dont get it to personal man...

Dredd was a nice remake of The Raid.

No it wasn't. Dredd was completed before The Raid. The Raid just made it to theatres first.

Aw man you all suck. (Except Omega & DoomRulz.)

I guess that's the price you pay for being indie.

Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 02, 2015, 06:36:00 PM

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 06:33:49 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 02, 2015, 06:29:49 PM

Quote from: Omegazilla on Mar 02, 2015, 06:26:16 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 02, 2015, 06:25:45 PM

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 06:25:21 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 02, 2015, 06:22:37 PM

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 06:21:48 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 02, 2015, 06:07:44 PM
I like how clearly, Ridley has some hand behind all this in allowing it to happen. First it was totally wiping the AvP films canon Weyland background, now writing over Alien3/Alien:R. It's clear, that at least the thought going around is "Hey, why don't, give this another shot, and see where it takes us." Someone up top knows the potential the franchise has. (even though I love Alien 3)

I hope he had been as thoughtful when doing that prometheus crap...

It's not that bad.

horrible.

Flawed.

Abominable!

I didn't like Dredd either.

dont get it to personal man...

Dredd was a nice remake of The Raid.

No it wasn't. Dredd was completed before The Raid. The Raid just made it to theatres first.

I didn't know. (never cared to check it either). I like Dredd anyway, not a bad movie at all.

---

Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 02, 2015, 06:36:49 PM
Aw man you all suck. (Except Omega & DoomRulz.)

And why is that?

Coz we're mods; he's smart that way 8) ;)

I know my username says otherwise, but I'm a she FYI.

Quote from: Magegg on Mar 02, 2015, 03:40:11 PM

Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 02, 2015, 03:24:20 PMI couldn't even make sense of that idea, so yes I pray they stay away from it.

It doesn't have to make sense, what I'm saying is that with Prometheus high sci-fi, opposed to Alien low sci-fi, they can basically solve things with a bumbo jumbo... Just hoping they won't "import" some of that logic into Alien 5.

Sci-fi is about making the implausible, possible, not the impossible, possible. So yes, things do need to make sense, otherwise the genre is fantasy/supernatural. This is the reason why I am not so fussed on Resurrection, I enjoy it for what it was but it went too far with its story and logic jumped overy the slippery slope.


Dredd was a good film, Judge Dredd? not so much, found it entertaining though  :laugh:

Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 02, 2015, 06:36:49 PM
Aw man you all suck. (Except Omega & DoomRulz.)

:laugh: Thank you.

Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 02, 2015, 06:47:13 PM
I know my username says otherwise, but I'm a she FYI.

Clever girl.

Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 02, 2015, 06:59:48 PM

Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 02, 2015, 06:47:13 PM
I know my username says otherwise, but I'm a she FYI.

Clever girl.

Dodgson! Dodgson!! we have Dodgson here!!!

Quote from: The Cruentus on Mar 02, 2015, 07:15:35 PM

Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 02, 2015, 06:59:48 PM

Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 02, 2015, 06:47:13 PM
I know my username says otherwise, but I'm a she FYI.

Clever girl.

Dodgson! Dodgson!! we have Dodgson here!!!

See? Nobody cares.

Quote from: KiramidHead on Mar 02, 2015, 07:16:52 PM

Quote from: The Cruentus on Mar 02, 2015, 07:15:35 PM

Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 02, 2015, 06:59:48 PM

Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 02, 2015, 06:47:13 PM
I know my username says otherwise, but I'm a she FYI.

Clever girl.

Dodgson! Dodgson!! we have Dodgson here!!!

See? Nobody cares.

Nice hat! what are you trying to look like? a secret agent?

Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 02, 2015, 06:40:54 PM
Coz we're mods; he's smart that way 8) ;)

Hey DoomRulz, I think your tag line, "Keep Calm and Hail Satan" is incredibly offensive.  You need to change it.

If you're being sarcastic, I can't see it. If you're being serious, take it to PM please.

Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 02, 2015, 07:32:11 PM
If you're being sarcastic, I can't see it. If you're being serious, take it to PM please.

That's going to be interesting :)

Quote from: The Cruentus on Mar 02, 2015, 07:27:38 PM

Quote from: KiramidHead on Mar 02, 2015, 07:16:52 PM

Quote from: The Cruentus on Mar 02, 2015, 07:15:35 PM

Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 02, 2015, 06:59:48 PM

Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 02, 2015, 06:47:13 PM
I know my username says otherwise, but I'm a she FYI.

Clever girl.

Dodgson! Dodgson!! we have Dodgson here!!!

See? Nobody cares.

Nice hat! what are you trying to look like? a secret agent?

I like how it got all Jurassic Park up in here lol

Quote from: Omegazilla on Mar 02, 2015, 05:56:44 PMTaken contextually, not really. He says "now I get to make the third film of the first two, which I think never happened," that's what constitutes the "gap" that he is "filling". Otherwise, it's pretty clear what he means.

And yet he's also said he's not undoing the third and fourth films.

I still find the whole thing very muddled.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 02, 2015, 08:15:43 PM

Quote from: Omegazilla on Mar 02, 2015, 05:56:44 PMTaken contextually, not really. He says "now I get to make the third film of the first two, which I think never happened," that's what constitutes the "gap" that he is "filling". Otherwise, it's pretty clear what he means.

And yet he's also said he's not undoing the third and fourth films.

I still find the whole thing very muddled.

I think it just means he's going to disregard A3/A:R while not officially declaring then "non-canon".  So I dont expect any "dream sequence" scenario or anything like that. 

Quote from: Adam802 on Mar 02, 2015, 08:17:31 PMI think it just means he's going to disregard A3/A:R while not officially declaring then "non-canon".  So I dont expect any "dream sequence" scenario or anything like that.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - if they're going to ditch the old films, this is by far the best way to do it.

I just want to see if Jones the cat appears.

Doubt that. No one wants to save the pussy.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 02, 2015, 08:15:43 PM
And yet he's also said he's not undoing the third and fourth films.

I still find the whole thing very muddled.

It's not literal. It means they're not being stripped of their importance, probably. Everything else points to them being ignored.

With a lot of speculation as to how this new film will fit into the established film series, I've thought about something...

Since there are 2 versions of each film officially available to us, would it be so bad if there's a version of the timeline post-Aliens that will be created too with this film? We are free to choose what cut of each film we watch already... Choosing which timeline now seems like a step we could take if this does indeed transpire.

Having said that I believe this film will ignore Alien 3 and Resurrection, but if one were to stretch plausibility we could still connect it to those films and speculate that Hicks (if he appears) is a clone too. We'll have to wait for more information.

I think its quite clear that his idea is to pretend they never existed.

It's sad (for A3) but I guess that once in that situation, that's better than any dream sequences, time traveling and other crazy contortions in order to circumvent A3 and AR.

Also not to fan of having the "family" reunited again, child actors then to be f**king annoying. (Newt wasn't, maybe because she wasn't even an actress at all).

Hicks, outside Aliens, I think its an outdated and too archetypical character and even tho I like Biehn as a person, he is quite a bad actor.

So not too excited if they want to follow up just straight after Aliens.

And man It really annoys me that they disregard A3!! Grrr

Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 02, 2015, 07:32:11 PM
If you're being sarcastic, I can't see it. If you're being serious, take it to PM please.

I'll PM you shortly.

In a discussion with Dazed Digital, Neill Blomkamp spoke a little about his upcoming Alien 5 project and how he felt that Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection “went off the rails“. The more Neill Blomkamp talks about the project, the more it seems pretty obvious that his upcoming project is going to be an alternate sequel to Aliens:

“It's the inverse in that now I get to make the third film of the first two, which I think never happened. I think they made the first two and then went off the rails with these other ones. I wanna try as a fan to fill in that gap. It all stems from being probably one of the most ego-less directors in Hollywood and I think that that plays a big role. If you're inward focused and narcissistic and thinking about your fans then that's when weird shit starts happening. If you stay grounded then you can make stuff that actually is balanced and has something to say. I don't want to give much away but what I can say confidently is that Alien and Aliens are my favourite films and where it went after Aliens was incorrect to me as a fan. I didn't want that world, I wanted the first two and that's what I want to go back to.”

Thanks to Tough little S.O.B. and Perfect-Organism for the link.

Link To Post

Just what I wanted to hear from NB... :)

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Mar 02, 2015, 08:58:08 PM

Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 02, 2015, 07:32:11 PM
If you're being sarcastic, I can't see it. If you're being serious, take it to PM please.

I'll PM you shortly.

Why you find it offensive If I may ask?

"Now I get to make the third film of the first two, which I think never happened."

Unless we get yet another contradictory quote, looks like this is as close to an 'it's a retcon' admission as we're ever going to get.

It's official - NIEL BLOMKAMP IS A LAZY, CHEAP HACK! This movie got stupid even before they started shooting it...

So egg-morphing confirmed as well?

Indeed. I think it's hard to think any other way at this point.

---

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 02, 2015, 09:07:09 PM
It's official - NIEL BLOMKAMP IS A LAZY, CHEAP HACK! This movie got stupid even before they started shooting it...

Alright - enough of the attitude please. It's getting very dull. You're welcome to voice constructive and level headed criticism of the idea but the insults are getting tedious. Chill out.

I'm still hoping for a Alien 5 that's not going to destroy continuity...I'll admit that its looking bleak though  :-\

I just hope that Weaver has the integrity to stand by her previous films and advocate that this new movie fit into established canon.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 02, 2015, 09:07:09 PM
It's official - NIEL BLOMKAMP IS A LAZY, CHEAP HACK! This movie got stupid even before they started shooting it...

I think you're being a bit too serious about the whole thing.

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Mar 02, 2015, 09:07:20 PM
So egg-morphing confirmed as well?

Yes please. I'd love to see it explored, especially in tandem with a Queen (seeing how both methods of reproduction could co-exist is even more intriguing than seeing one on its own, in my opinion).

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 02, 2015, 09:07:32 PM
Indeed. I think it's hard to think any other way at this point.

---

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 02, 2015, 09:07:09 PM
It's official - NIEL BLOMKAMP IS A LAZY, CHEAP HACK! This movie got stupid even before they started shooting it...

Alright - enough of the attitude please. It's getting very dull. You're welcome to voice constructive and level headed criticism of the idea but the insults are getting tedious. Chill out.

Well, that is the truth, but I guess I'll turn it down even though he is a really smug douche trying to sound open-minded and reasonable when in reality he just wants to direct ALIENS 2 and please his own ego by being remembered as the guy who saved the franchise and directed the "true" sequel to ALIENS.

Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 02, 2015, 09:12:56 PM

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Mar 02, 2015, 09:07:20 PM
So egg-morphing confirmed as well?

Yes please. I'd love to see it explored, especially in tandem with a Queen (seeing how both methods of reproduction could co-exist is even more intriguing than seeing one on its own, in my opinion).

I think it should be used, as in, Aliens have the ability to lay eggs regardless, but the Queen is just the goal of these things, and this method can be used to jump start a nest population as a Queen matures, because the brute is bound to vulnerable as it grows. You need a secondary method that can allow you to grow the population to defend the growing nest. But don't have some cheap attempt at saying, it reconstitutes the material of the host into an egg. I rather like the idea, it uses the host, as a nutrient source. Just as a tarantula hawk lays eggs inside of a spider, the larval "egg", uses the host as a food source. It grows around the host, and the host is slowly eaten alive.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 02, 2015, 09:15:12 PM

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 02, 2015, 09:07:32 PM
Indeed. I think it's hard to think any other way at this point.

---

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 02, 2015, 09:07:09 PM
It's official - NIEL BLOMKAMP IS A LAZY, CHEAP HACK! This movie got stupid even before they started shooting it...

Alright - enough of the attitude please. It's getting very dull. You're welcome to voice constructive and level headed criticism of the idea but the insults are getting tedious. Chill out.

Well, that is the truth, but I guess I'll runs it down even though he is a really smug douche trying to sound open-minded and reasonable when in reality he just wants to direct ALIENS 2 and please his own ego by being remembered as the guy who saved the franchise and directed the "true" sequel to ALIENS.

We don't know any of the fine details yet. So before you go off the handle any more, rein it in. If you can't voice your concerns without being insulting or condescending, I suggest you don't voice it at all.

I'd be very interested to see egg-morphing explored in the new film. Always liked the deleted scene from Alien where Ripley encountered Dallas and Brett, and have been intrigued as to how the whole process works...

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 02, 2015, 09:15:12 PM
he just wants to direct ALIENS 2 and please his own ego by being remembered as the guy who saved the franchise and directed the "true" sequel to ALIENS.

He's not the first director that's tried to do that (Strause bros).

I have a lot of confidence that his Alien film will be a good movie.  I just think that his approach is all wrong.  Disregarding half the series is crazy and I believe that the executives at fox, The producers, Weaver would be reluctant to take that approach.  Its still very early, there's no script, no one is officially casted yet, so I'm hoping for this talk of retconning to be properly debunked by the time an official script has been completed.

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Mar 02, 2015, 09:07:20 PM
So egg-morphing confirmed as well?

I'd like to see it return in some capacity. I always loved that idea as much as the host idea. It's still quite a nice perversion of the body.

Until we know what the actual story is, I, too, feel the 'lazy hack' stuff is way too premature.

The third and fourth movie are going to be dreams or simply won't be referenced. Either way, what we will get could just as easily be worse or better. Let's hope for the latter. Even 'Alien Versus Predator' could have been infinitely better if Anderson had given it the 'Event Horizon' approach it needed.

And to be honest, I'm more hopeful for this than the 'Prometheus' sequel.

On the bright side? The life-cycle is open to reinterpretation now. Maybe we'll have it so that any adult can become a Queen, making even just one single Alien a legitimate world-ending threat, once more (hopefully, with egg-morphing featuring). And maybe we can get some characters we might actually care about - that'd be nice, too. :)

But the bottom line is, this has already been decided. It's a done deal. No sense getting torn up about it.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 02, 2015, 09:15:12 PM

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 02, 2015, 09:07:32 PM
Indeed. I think it's hard to think any other way at this point.

---

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 02, 2015, 09:07:09 PM
It's official - NIEL BLOMKAMP IS A LAZY, CHEAP HACK! This movie got stupid even before they started shooting it...

Alright - enough of the attitude please. It's getting very dull. You're welcome to voice constructive and level headed criticism of the idea but the insults are getting tedious. Chill out.

Well, that is the truth, but I guess I'll runs it down even though he is a really smug douche trying to sound open-minded and reasonable when in reality he just wants to direct ALIENS 2 and please his own ego by being remembered as the guy who saved the franchise and directed the "true" sequel to ALIENS.

I really dont think that just bc he wants to use the end of ALIENS as a jumping off point, that he wants to just make "ALIENS 2".  I think that he just knows that the end of ALIENS has a lot more/better potential to continue a story from than after A:R.

I think People forget what a total mess Alien 3 was its it whole production..

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 02, 2015, 09:23:01 PM
Until we know what the actual story is, I, too, feel the 'lazy hack' stuff is way too premature.

The third and fourth movie are going to be dreams or simply won't be referenced. Either way, what we will get could just as easily be worse or better. Let's hope for the latter. Even 'Alien Versus Predator' could have been infinitely better if Anderson had given it the 'Event Horizon' approach it needed.

And to be honest, I'm more hopeful for this than the 'Prometheus' sequel.

On the bright side? The life-cycle is open to reinterpretation now. Maybe we'll have it so that any adult can become a Queen, making even just one single Alien a legitimate world-ending threat, once more (hopefully, with egg-morphing featuring). And maybe we can get some characters we might actually care about - that'd be nice, too. :)

But the bottom line is, this has already been decided. It's a done deal. No sense getting torn up about it.

I won't say it has been decided and its a done deal yet. It's just the Idea the director wants to follow, but I also think that the studio is not going to accept that so easily ( Unless the ideas that Neill pitched them are so so amazing that they went with it without a second thought).

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 02, 2015, 09:22:24 PM

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Mar 02, 2015, 09:07:20 PM
So egg-morphing confirmed as well?

I'd like to see it return in some capacity. I always loved that idea as much as the host idea. It's still quite a nice perversion of the body.

I think Blomkamp enjoys that kind of body-horror. eg. Wikus turning into a Prawn.

Quote from: shakermakerman on Mar 02, 2015, 09:25:17 PM
I think People forget what a total mess Alien 3 was its it whole production..

Exactly.  People must understand, the only reason the story in A3 went the way it did, was bc in the REAL WORLD the film went through development hell and even the people working on it (including Fincher) didnt like it.  So it was never really meant to go that direction anyway.  I feel like this new movie's premise(based on what we think we know so far) is closer to what we would've gotten in an "ideal" scenario without development hell. 

Im so happy this is actually happening....

Plus, Blomkamp seems to really want to make the movie scary on a primal level again, which is AWESOME

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 09:26:20 PM

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 02, 2015, 09:23:01 PM
Until we know what the actual story is, I, too, feel the 'lazy hack' stuff is way too premature.

The third and fourth movie are going to be dreams or simply won't be referenced. Either way, what we will get could just as easily be worse or better. Let's hope for the latter. Even 'Alien Versus Predator' could have been infinitely better if Anderson had given it the 'Event Horizon' approach it needed.

And to be honest, I'm more hopeful for this than the 'Prometheus' sequel.

On the bright side? The life-cycle is open to reinterpretation now. Maybe we'll have it so that any adult can become a Queen, making even just one single Alien a legitimate world-ending threat, once more (hopefully, with egg-morphing featuring). And maybe we can get some characters we might actually care about - that'd be nice, too. :)

But the bottom line is, this has already been decided. It's a done deal. No sense getting torn up about it.

I won't say it has been decided and its a done deal yet. It's just the Idea the director wants to follow, but I also think that the studio is not going to accept that so easily ( Unless the ideas that Neill pitched them are so so amazing that they went with it without a second thought).

Fox announced on facebook to head over to Blomkamps instagram , he has some exciting news.

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 09:26:20 PM

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 02, 2015, 09:23:01 PM
Until we know what the actual story is, I, too, feel the 'lazy hack' stuff is way too premature.

The third and fourth movie are going to be dreams or simply won't be referenced. Either way, what we will get could just as easily be worse or better. Let's hope for the latter. Even 'Alien Versus Predator' could have been infinitely better if Anderson had given it the 'Event Horizon' approach it needed.

And to be honest, I'm more hopeful for this than the 'Prometheus' sequel.

On the bright side? The life-cycle is open to reinterpretation now. Maybe we'll have it so that any adult can become a Queen, making even just one single Alien a legitimate world-ending threat, once more (hopefully, with egg-morphing featuring). And maybe we can get some characters we might actually care about - that'd be nice, too. :)

But the bottom line is, this has already been decided. It's a done deal. No sense getting torn up about it.

I won't say it has been decided and its a done deal yet. It's just the Idea the director wants to follow, but I also think that the studio is not going to accept that so easily ( Unless the ideas that Neill pitched them are so so amazing that they went with it without a second thought).

The problem with the Studio not liking the choice is that as of the past 3 years the studio has been graciously trying to distance itself from the past two decades of the series. From Prometheus to Colonial Marines to the novels, to even Alien Isolation. It feels like, they want to start over fresh.

And this will still make them money.You still get the sales of Alien 3 and Resurrection, AVP, and its merchandise, and its everything else, and hey, Neil just came up and decided to just double your money on an easily marketable idea, damn! How could you say no!

I have a very strong feeling the studio doesn't care because they get the best end of the deal, it just adds more to the Alien media empire.

Quote from: shakermakerman on Mar 02, 2015, 09:25:17 PM
I think People forget what a total mess Alien 3 was its it whole production..

Even if it had been a perfect production and Fincher had had total freedom, many fans would never forget that they killed Hicks and Newt.

I don't agree but I understand them. Is that enough to justify sacking that Movie? I don't thing so.

So what great options does he have?
-  Time travel
-  Cold blooded retcon
-  Amnesia
-  Clones
-  Androids
-  Shoehorning
-  Dreams


...They all suck. Him wanting Hicks back is total ALIENS fanboy service. I see no other reason for bringing him back.

Stop making excuses for this guy. We all know where he's from.

All I can say is I don't know why people want to know Fincher's opinion on this. Fincher hated Alien 3 and doesn't want it mentioned in his bio, so I doubt he gives a flying about it. :)

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 02, 2015, 09:33:15 PM
So what great options does he have?
-  Time travel
-  Cold blooded retcon
-  Amnesia
-  Clones
-  Androids
-  Shoehorning
-  Dreams


...They all suck. Him wanting Hicks back is total ALIENS fanboy service. I see no other reason for bringing him back.

Stop making excuses for this guy. We all know where he's from.

"We all know where he's from." what is that supposed to mean, exactly

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 02, 2015, 09:33:15 PM
So what great options does he have?
-  Time travel
-  Cold blooded retcon
-  Amnesia
-  Clones
-  Androids
-  Shoehorning
-  Dreams


...They all suck. Him wanting Hicks back is total ALIENS fanboy service. I see no other reason for bringing him back.

Stop making excuses for this guy. We all know where he's from.

All those ideas ARE stupid except retcon.  Or just "ignoring", whatever people want to call it.

But id argue that those other ideas arent any more stupid than what it would take to continue from where the mess A:R left off.

That signature, Eighth Passenger... :laugh:

Quote from: Adam802 on Mar 02, 2015, 09:24:18 PM
I really dont think that just bc he wants to use the end of ALIENS as a jumping off point, that he wants to just make "ALIENS 2".

It's also worth pointing out he's a fan of both the first films. We could just as easily be getting a re-do of 'Alien' with a maturing Queen instead of a normal Alien, as a supposed copy of 'Aliens'. Just because Hicks is in concept art, doesn't mean anything.

Quote from: Adam802 on Mar 02, 2015, 09:36:26 PM

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 02, 2015, 09:33:15 PM
So what great options does he have?
-  Time travel
-  Cold blooded retcon
-  Amnesia
-  Clones
-  Androids
-  Shoehorning
-  Dreams


...They all suck. Him wanting Hicks back is total ALIENS fanboy service. I see no other reason for bringing him back.

Stop making excuses for this guy. We all know where he's from.

All those ideas ARE stupid except retcon.  Or just "ignoring", whatever people want to call it.

But id argue that those other ideas arent any more stupid than what it would take to continue from where the mess A:R left off.

Retcons are the absolute bottom of the barrel, the sludgy grime that pungent reboot goop rests on top of below the segments of rancid remakes. It doesn't get lower than that. Why even make a sequel when you don't even want to make a sequel rather than fan fiction?

Why can't we just let Ripley die?

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 02, 2015, 09:42:06 PM

Quote from: Adam802 on Mar 02, 2015, 09:36:26 PM

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 02, 2015, 09:33:15 PM
So what great options does he have?
-  Time travel
-  Cold blooded retcon
-  Amnesia
-  Clones
-  Androids
-  Shoehorning
-  Dreams


...They all suck. Him wanting Hicks back is total ALIENS fanboy service. I see no other reason for bringing him back.

Stop making excuses for this guy. We all know where he's from.

All those ideas ARE stupid except retcon.  Or just "ignoring", whatever people want to call it.

But id argue that those other ideas arent any more stupid than what it would take to continue from where the mess A:R left off.

Retcons are the absolute bottom of the barrel, the sludgy grime that pungent reboot goop rests on below the segments of rancid remakes. It doesn't get lower than that. Why even make a sequel when you don't even want to make a sequel rather than fan fiction?

Not really. What scale are you using to quantify these things.

Quote from: Dustie on Mar 02, 2015, 09:34:46 PM
All I can say is I don't know why people want to know Fincher's opinion on this. Fincher hated Alien 3 and doesn't want it mentioned in his bio, so I doubt he gives a flying about it.

Fincher is one of my favourite movie directors ever, so I am interested in everything he has to say. If he has an opinion about what toilet paper is better, one layer or double layer, I wanna know about it. Also, the history behind A# production is as fascinating as the movie itself, and If he hates it so much, his opinion about it will be really interesting. If he didn't care about it, he won't care at all. he won't hate it, and have it erased from his bio etc.

But hey, If you are not interested in his opinion, good for you.

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 09:47:50 PM

Quote from: Dustie on Mar 02, 2015, 09:34:46 PM
All I can say is I don't know why people want to know Fincher's opinion on this. Fincher hated Alien 3 and doesn't want it mentioned in his bio, so I doubt he gives a flying about it.

Fincher is one of my favourite movie directors ever, so I am interested in everything he has to say. If he has an opinion about what toilet paper is better, one layer or double layer, I wanna know about it. Also, the history behind A# production is as fascinating as the movie itself, and If he hates it so much, his opinion about it will be really interesting. If he didn't care about it, he won't care at all. he won't hate it, and have it erased from his bio etc.

But hey, If you are not interested in his opinion, good for you.

Double layer, for sure.  :)

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 09:47:50 PM

Quote from: Dustie on Mar 02, 2015, 09:34:46 PM
All I can say is I don't know why people want to know Fincher's opinion on this. Fincher hated Alien 3 and doesn't want it mentioned in his bio, so I doubt he gives a flying about it.

Fincher is one of my favourite movie directors ever, so I am interested in everything he has to say. If he has an opinion about what toilet paper is better, one layer or double layer, I wanna know about it. Also, the history behind A# production is as fascinating as the movie itself, and If he hates it so much, his opinion about it will be really interesting. If he didn't care about it, he won't care at all. he won't hate it, and have it erased from his bio etc.

But hey, If you are not interested in his opinion, good for you.

If that's where you're coming from than fair enough, I guess, even him declining to comment would mean a lot in your eyes and ears, I get it.
Just like everyone else I shared my opinion and impression regarding the matter, I noticed a lot of people were wondering about Fincher's opinion on Neill's approach to the series - remembering Fincher's stance on Alien 3 I suddenly had the feeling a lot of Aliens fans seem to be unfamiliar with it, hence my partial lack of understanding as to why his opinion would matter. I happen to love Fincher's movies too and I always have a bitter aftertaste remembering his dislike to Alien 3, which I happen to like a lot as well, but I learned to just get along with it.

Quote from: Dustie on Mar 02, 2015, 09:56:24 PM

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 09:47:50 PM

Quote from: Dustie on Mar 02, 2015, 09:34:46 PM
All I can say is I don't know why people want to know Fincher's opinion on this. Fincher hated Alien 3 and doesn't want it mentioned in his bio, so I doubt he gives a flying about it.

Fincher is one of my favourite movie directors ever, so I am interested in everything he has to say. If he has an opinion about what toilet paper is better, one layer or double layer, I wanna know about it. Also, the history behind A# production is as fascinating as the movie itself, and If he hates it so much, his opinion about it will be really interesting. If he didn't care about it, he won't care at all. he won't hate it, and have it erased from his bio etc.

But hey, If you are not interested in his opinion, good for you.

If that's where you're coming from than fair enough, I guess, even him declining to comment would mean a lot in your eyes and ears, I get it.
Just like everyone else I shared my opinion and impression regarding the matter, I noticed a lot of people were wondering about Fincher's opinion on Neill's approach to the series - remembering Fincher's stance on Alien 3 I suddenly had the feeling a lot of Aliens fans seem to be unfamiliar with it, hence my partial lack of understanding as to why his opinion would matter. I happen to love Fincher's movies too and I always have a bitter aftertaste remembering his dislike to Alien 3, which I happen to like a lot as well, but I learned to just get along with it.

But I truly think he has an strong opinion about A3 in general and the new movie. The fact that he does not even want to talk about A3 shows you how strong his opinion is.

I won't be surprised that somehow, inside him, the fact that they are discarding A3, as much as he may hate it, its going to hurt a little.

Just curious, I can totally live without that revelation.

I'm curious if Blom wants to take off from ALIENS straight away or if it will be set some 30-odd years after.

Quote from: PsyKore on Mar 02, 2015, 10:00:40 PM
I'm curious if Blom wants to take off from ALIENS straight away or if it will be set some 30-odd years after.

If it happens just right after, I don't know how he will justify the actors being older. (if he is using Sigourney and Biehn)

If Resurrection and A3 are being overwritten, they should make it worth something.  Like was said at the bottom of the first page, this series has massive potential; use it.  If they pull this off, we could get a film that melds the best elements of the first two films (and maybe some nods at the other two in oblique ways) that comes to create a dark, psychedelic epic that pushes the limits of film making in the way Alien and Aliens did.  Of course they should stay grounded in the core elements of the series and not create something totally unrecognizable, but the absolute last thing that this franchise needs is yet another marines-respond-to-distress-signal-on-planet-only-to-find-out-that-aliens-have-overrun-it-and-the-Company-is-doing-unethical-experiments storyline that has been repeated ad nauseam in multiple media.  Give us something for the ages.

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 10:03:47 PM

Quote from: PsyKore on Mar 02, 2015, 10:00:40 PM
I'm curious if Blom wants to take off from ALIENS straight away or if it will be set some 30-odd years after.

If it happens just right after, I don't know how he will justify the actors being older. (if he is using Sigourney and Biehn)

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Because if he wants it set straight after, then that's gonna cost a lot of cgi to keep it looking plausible.

Quote from: PsyKore on Mar 02, 2015, 10:09:00 PM

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 10:03:47 PM

Quote from: PsyKore on Mar 02, 2015, 10:00:40 PM
I'm curious if Blom wants to take off from ALIENS straight away or if it will be set some 30-odd years after.

If it happens just right after, I don't know how he will justify the actors being older. (if he is using Sigourney and Biehn)

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Because if he wants it set straight after, then that's gonna cost a lot of cgi to keep it looking plausible.

I hope he is not going that way :S

Yeah, setting it immediately after Aliens wouldn't work. Maybe just show one or two scenes where they awaken from cryo sleep, then jump ahead thirty years.

Has anyone considered that Weaver may simply not like the way it turned out in A3 and A:R? Is she and the other creatives involved not permitted to fix something they may not like?

I know if I was involved in a property I felt was off track and wanted to retcon it to fix it, I would. I'm not even a big fan of retcons to begin with, but this is a possibility. The whole a painting is never finished thing...

Quote from: Omegazilla on Mar 02, 2015, 08:39:26 PM

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 02, 2015, 08:15:43 PM
And yet he's also said he's not undoing the third and fourth films.

I still find the whole thing very muddled.

It's not literal. It means they're not being stripped of their importance, probably. Everything else points to them being ignored.

Im not sure. Any of this can be taken as 'not literal'

Perhaps he will make an entry that 'fills-in the gap' but doesn't necessarily wipe 3 and 4 out? Perhaps not. But its not ok to take some things literally that don't make literal sense but do the same for those same things that suit what you want.
And I'm not trying to do the same thing.

If it takes place b/w Aliens and A3 and 'fills in the gap' or seeks to wipe them out. Both raise a very interesting important question that deserves it's own thread:

WHERE IS NEWT?

Quote from: razeak on Mar 02, 2015, 10:26:32 PM
Has anyone considered that Weaver may simply not like the way it turned out in A3 and A:R? Is she and the other creatives involved not permitted to fix something they may not like?

I know if I was involved in a property I felt was off track and wanted to retcon it to fix it, I would. I'm not even a big fan of retcons to begin with, but this is a possibility. The whole a painting is never finished thing...

I don't think anybody says it's not a possibility, but it's not the only and maybe it's not the most obvious for the studio. Maybe.

Think that Fincher's said all he's ever going to about the project he was involved in. I doubt he even thinks of it as 'his' film, regardless of his name being on it and didn't like the end cinematic result (to put it mildly).

If he never commented on the recent official re-edit, he's probably not going to comment about this.

Quote from: razeak on Mar 02, 2015, 10:26:32 PM
Has anyone considered that Weaver may simply not like the way it turned out in A3 and A:R? Is she and the other creatives involved not permitted to fix something they may not like?

I know if I was involved in a property I felt was off track and wanted to retcon it to fix it, I would. I'm not even a big fan of retcons to begin with, but this is a possibility. The whole a painting is never finished thing...

I always got the impression from Weaver (in interviews and featurettes on the bluray set) that she likes those films and had a good experience making them.  This is why I find it hard to believe that she would get behind the idea of retconning them.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 02, 2015, 09:33:15 PM
-  Time travel

Leave that to the Terminator franchise!

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 02, 2015, 09:33:15 PM
-  Cold blooded retcon

I still like to believe that he is going to keep his word in not "undoing" Alien 3 and Resurrection if his previous statement is something to consider. Of course that statement could mean anything, and I will admit that but I don't want a full blooded retcon either. Not like as if Alien 3 or Resurrection are declared as non-canon, I'd prefer two alternate continuities.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 02, 2015, 09:33:15 PM
-  Amnesia

This would be going the route of Alien: Out of the Shadows, and this is something which I really wouldn't want to see on screen. If they want to do a ham-fisted retcon.. here is a way to start.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 02, 2015, 09:33:15 PM
-  Clones

Considering that Blomkamp has said that he has no intentions of using the Ripley 8 character, or clones of any sort-- I would think this one option is completely out the window.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 02, 2015, 09:33:15 PM
-  Androids

Who would want to create Androids of Ripley and Hicks? Off the top of my mind, I can't imagine anyone who would commission such units. It wouldn't make much sense anyway. I mean... I know some folks have addressed this but the question would be why?

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 02, 2015, 09:33:15 PM
-  Shoehorning

Isn't that what retconning is to a certain extent?

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 02, 2015, 09:33:15 PM
-  Dreams

I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY HOPE that this is NOT the route that they go. It's a cheap way to effectively undo something from a long established continuity, and it's also a little insulting to your audience in a way. It's such a cop out and I think that the franchise doesn't need something like this. If you ask me, this is straight up worse than ignoring a sequel. We don't need the Alien franchise doing what Dallas and Roseanne did.

Quote from: marrerom on Mar 02, 2015, 10:40:26 PM

Quote from: razeak on Mar 02, 2015, 10:26:32 PM
Has anyone considered that Weaver may simply not like the way it turned out in A3 and A:R? Is she and the other creatives involved not permitted to fix something they may not like?

I know if I was involved in a property I felt was off track and wanted to retcon it to fix it, I would. I'm not even a big fan of retcons to begin with, but this is a possibility. The whole a painting is never finished thing...

I always got the impression from Weaver (in interviews and featurettes on the bluray set) that she likes those films and had a good experience making them.  This is why I find it hard to believe that she would get behind the idea of retconning them.

I think she is quite diplomatic. (and after the inn moral amount of money she was paid to do that movies, she is not going to say they suck!) 

Anyway, If she is going to be involved in another Alien Movie, I hope she DOES NOT love AR!

My biggest problem with A3 has always been that I was waiting to see where these things/the aliens come from and thinking, that they only found one ship, so how does Ripley's death really solve anything, if they can always encounter more?

This is especially true now with the events in prometheus, we know there is that back goo just waiting to be found on LV223.

So maybe that and the mysterious egg on the sulaco and the queen in ripley is the 'gap' he means to fill.

Quote from: CainsSon on Mar 02, 2015, 10:50:51 PM
My biggest problem with A3 has always been that I was waiting to see where these things/the aliens come from and thinking, that they only found one ship, so how does Ripley's death really solve anything, if they can always encounter more.

This is especially true now with the events in prometheus, we know there is that back goo just waiting to be found on LV223.

So maybe that and the mysterious egg on the sulaco and the queen in ripley is the 'gap' he means to fill.

I hate the goo!

If this is meant to bring Ripley some kind of 'closure', it's definitely not going to be set between the other films. The director's said it himself: He doesn't personally regard the third and fourth films as a part of the continuity.

So long as it's genuinely entertaining and doesn't have any 'Prometheus'-sized plot-holes, I'm really not going to care. Right now, my only hope is that the Aliens aren't seen as 'splodey cannon-fodder and are portrayed as genuine threats. That's the approach I'm taking for my own CGI project.

It's funny, I was thinking one aspect of Alien 3's opening is sort of convenient to the idea of literally "filling in the gap": the differing cryo tubes. You could potentially say the ship in A3 was a sister ship to the Sulaco in Aliens and something has happened in between.

But then again, you still have Hicks all bandaged up and Bishop is still in half, so probably not. Would be funny if they did find a way to lead up to A3 though.

Quote from: shakermakerman on Mar 02, 2015, 09:32:25 PM

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 02, 2015, 09:26:20 PM

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 02, 2015, 09:23:01 PM
Until we know what the actual story is, I, too, feel the 'lazy hack' stuff is way too premature.

The third and fourth movie are going to be dreams or simply won't be referenced. Either way, what we will get could just as easily be worse or better. Let's hope for the latter. Even 'Alien Versus Predator' could have been infinitely better if Anderson had given it the 'Event Horizon' approach it needed.

And to be honest, I'm more hopeful for this than the 'Prometheus' sequel.

On the bright side? The life-cycle is open to reinterpretation now. Maybe we'll have it so that any adult can become a Queen, making even just one single Alien a legitimate world-ending threat, once more (hopefully, with egg-morphing featuring). And maybe we can get some characters we might actually care about - that'd be nice, too. :)

But the bottom line is, this has already been decided. It's a done deal. No sense getting torn up about it.

I won't say it has been decided and its a done deal yet. It's just the Idea the director wants to follow, but I also think that the studio is not going to accept that so easily ( Unless the ideas that Neill pitched them are so so amazing that they went with it without a second thought).

Fox announced on facebook to head over to Blomkamps instagram , he has some exciting news.

He posted a picture of NY saying he can't wait to go there... I guess its related to the presentation of Chapie, or maybe Alien 5 will b set in NY? Hahah hope not!

Quote from: CainsSon on Mar 02, 2015, 10:50:51 PM
My biggest problem with A3 has always been that I was waiting to see where these things/the aliens come from and thinking, that they only found one ship, so how does Ripley's death really solve anything, if they can always encounter more?

Well, the trilogy is basically Ripley's story, so everything in it is all about her and in this sense her death at the hands of the monster that she's been trying to fight all along is kind of a clousure, a finale. At that point, in her realm, she was the only one to have encountered the Aliens so many times. It was all down to her and there wasn't any need to think outside the box.

Quote from: PsyKore on Mar 02, 2015, 10:54:27 PM
It's funny, I was thinking one aspect of Alien 3's opening is sort of convenient to the idea of literally "filling in the gap": the differing cryo tubes. You could potentially say the ship in A3 was a sister ship to the Sulaco in Aliens and something has happened in between.

But then again, you still have Hicks all bandaged up and Bishop is still in half, so probably not. Would be funny if they did find a way to lead up to A3 though.

I totally digged this idea as well, even posted about this in the other thread.
Hicks could be all bandaged up anyway AND Bishop cut in half and still in the cryotube, even after they were replaced and ship was refitted. And even after all Blomkamp's action goes down, they could be back in Sulaco.

The only problem with this is Sigourney and Biehn being older. That makes it impossible to seamlessly fit Blomkamp's Alien movie between Aliens and Alien 3.

Plus, they would have to finish the new movie the same way Aliens was finished off - with them on Sulaco going back to wherever they came from...

If they retcon 3 and 4 then the simplest way to do that is to simply set the new movie 25 years after Aliens.

They made it home after the events of Aliens and 25 years later the company has found a new Xeno source and Ripley, Hicks and co have to team up to stop them. All the aging issues have been solved, Hicks isn't dead and there are no convoluted dream sequences, time travel or Jeff Bridgesing anyone up.

Alright guys, Rips and company are coming out of retirement to battle the aliens once more in Alien 3. Yep, just chalking up those other 2 alien movies as cheap knock offs that were never properly sanctioned. Off to the $1 movie bin with yea.

This had better be one awesome movie blomkamp or we're going to be sending aliens after you!  :laugh:

Quote from: PsyKore on Mar 02, 2015, 10:54:27 PM
It's funny, I was thinking one aspect of Alien 3's opening is sort of convenient to the idea of literally "filling in the gap": the differing cryo tubes. You could potentially say the ship in A3 was a sister ship to the Sulaco in Aliens and something has happened in between.

But then again, you still have Hicks all bandaged up and Bishop is still in half, so probably not. Would be funny if they did find a way to lead up to A3 though.

If this IS his intention, it would explain why his answers sound less than literal. Because he wouldn't want people to know that it will end the way that's necessary for Alien 3 to begin.

But I agree, the age difference makes no sense without them jeff bridges-ing Ripley ala TRON:Legacy.

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Mar 02, 2015, 09:07:20 PM
So egg-morphing confirmed as well?

I don't see why we can't have both reproduction methods. The Alien in the 1st film is cut off from any hive and so it begins the egg morphing process to start a new one.

On the main topic; why does he hold Aliens in such high regard? The whole Queen and hive idea as a whole kinda ruined the bizarre alien mystery of the creature and made it into space ants. I don't see why Fox wants to fund this fan-fiction, 3 is a fine film when you see the full cut. Then again, it was Fox that ruined 3 in the first place so...

maybe half of the movie takes place after Aliens and the other half is in the future after A:R?

Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 02, 2015, 11:17:48 PM
If they retcon 3 and 4 then the simplest way to do that is to simply set the new movie 25 years after Aliens.

They made it home after the events of Aliens and 25 years later the company has found a new Xeno source and Ripley, Hicks and co have to team up to stop them. All the aging issues have been solved, Hicks isn't dead and there are no convoluted dream sequences, time travel or Jeff Bridgesing anyone up.

This

Quote from: DaddyYautja on Mar 02, 2015, 11:33:43 PM
maybe half of the movie takes place after Aliens and the other half is in the future after A:R?

I was thinking that was a possibility too!

Hicks lives, meets up with Ripley post A:R

Why not just change the idea to follow on from AR?
Ripley as Ripley 8, Hicks as Johner, Bishop as Vriess, Newt as Call and The Company as USCM?
A quick rewrite could make it all fit.
Honestly if they are dismissing 3 and 4 I would prefer at least an acknowledgement of a bad dream or something. As cheesy as that is, at least it would not render those films completely useless. Alien 3 is imo an excellent film, AR less so but still has earned its place in the Alien canon.

Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 02, 2015, 11:40:09 PM

Quote from: DaddyYautja on Mar 02, 2015, 11:33:43 PM
maybe half of the movie takes place after Aliens and the other half is in the future after A:R?

I was thinking that was a possibility too!

Hicks lives, meets up with Ripley post A:R

Seems like a stretch, though, that Hicks would somehow be in cryosleep for 200-odd years. Unless they cloned him too!

I'm starting to dig this "betweenquel" idea. Just make it take place between Aliens and Alien 3. I get many are worrying about Sigourney's age if they go this route. But I believe there's make-up and CGI technology that can successfully de-age her. BTW, that Direct TV commercial from 2007/2008... didn't she film new scenes for that and dress up as Ripley again? If they made her look that young for this commercial, I'm sure they can possibly pull it off on film:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBQze6nvtio#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBQze6nvtio#ws)

Quote from: Adam802 on Mar 02, 2015, 11:38:23 PM

Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 02, 2015, 11:17:48 PM
If they retcon 3 and 4 then the simplest way to do that is to simply set the new movie 25 years after Aliens.

They made it home after the events of Aliens and 25 years later the company has found a new Xeno source and Ripley, Hicks and co have to team up to stop them. All the aging issues have been solved, Hicks isn't dead and there are no convoluted dream sequences, time travel or Jeff Bridgesing anyone up.

This

Same here, they both are pretty old, so it is very likely that the new film takes place at least two decades after Aliens.

Quote from: GQSioux on Mar 03, 2015, 12:04:21 AM
I'm starting to dig this "betweenquel" idea. Just make it take place between Aliens and Alien 3. I get many are worrying about Sigourney's age if they go this route. But I believe there's make-up and CGI technology that can successfully de-age her. BTW, that Direct TV commercial from 2007/2008... didn't she film new scenes for that and dress up as Ripley again? If they made her look that young for this commercial, I'm sure they can possibly pull it off on film:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBQze6nvtio#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBQze6nvtio#ws)

So it is possible. Yeah, I'd actually be down for that if they could do something that looks as good. I can't help but be interested in seeing the results of it at least.

Quote from: Crazy Shrimp on Mar 03, 2015, 12:05:09 AM

Quote from: Adam802 on Mar 02, 2015, 11:38:23 PM

Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 02, 2015, 11:17:48 PM
If they retcon 3 and 4 then the simplest way to do that is to simply set the new movie 25 years after Aliens.

They made it home after the events of Aliens and 25 years later the company has found a new Xeno source and Ripley, Hicks and co have to team up to stop them. All the aging issues have been solved, Hicks isn't dead and there are no convoluted dream sequences, time travel or Jeff Bridgesing anyone up.

This

Same here, they both are pretty old, so it is very likely that the new film takes place at least two decades after Aliens.

Maybe they could've lived on a farm and settle for a quiet, secluded life?
Anyway, almost everyone has been focused on Hicks and Ripley, but what about Newt???

Quote from: PsyKore on Mar 03, 2015, 12:12:59 AM

Quote from: GQSioux on Mar 03, 2015, 12:04:21 AM
I'm starting to dig this "betweenquel" idea. Just make it take place between Aliens and Alien 3. I get many are worrying about Sigourney's age if they go this route. But I believe there's make-up and CGI technology that can successfully de-age her. BTW, that Direct TV commercial from 2007/2008... didn't she film new scenes for that and dress up as Ripley again? If they made her look that young for this commercial, I'm sure they can possibly pull it off on film:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBQze6nvtio#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBQze6nvtio#ws)

So it is possible. Yeah, I'd actually be down for that if they could do something that looks as good. I can't help but be interested in seeing the results of it at least.

God no! It looks like her with f**k loads of botox. Just creepy!

Who else is for Ripley and Hicks living on a farm?

Quote from: GQSioux on Mar 03, 2015, 12:04:21 AM
I'm starting to dig this "betweenquel" idea. Just make it take place between Aliens and Alien 3. I get many are worrying about Sigourney's age if they go this route. But I believe there's make-up and CGI technology that can successfully de-age her. BTW, that Direct TV commercial from 2007/2008... didn't she film new scenes for that and dress up as Ripley again? If they made her look that young for this commercial, I'm sure they can possibly pull it off on film:

Airbrushing is already being used in movies and in motion picture in general, so it is possible, but I think with Sigourney it would require a very serious amount of retouching, which would could up the budget. It would just be a paint to airbrush both of them so that they look like their younger selves... imagine every single shot they're in has to be done... it's a nightmare. Much cheaper and easier way: have them actually being older in the movie. Which is what I think they will end up doing, instead of spending a hefty amount of their CG budget on digital botox.

Besides... I'm not sure she'd be up for it. I mean, I'd be scared to ask her if she's fine with starring as herself except they will smudge the heck out of her face. I'd be kind of like an insult.

Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 03, 2015, 12:19:49 AM

Quote from: PsyKore on Mar 03, 2015, 12:12:59 AM

Quote from: GQSioux on Mar 03, 2015, 12:04:21 AM
I'm starting to dig this "betweenquel" idea. Just make it take place between Aliens and Alien 3. I get many are worrying about Sigourney's age if they go this route. But I believe there's make-up and CGI technology that can successfully de-age her. BTW, that Direct TV commercial from 2007/2008... didn't she film new scenes for that and dress up as Ripley again? If they made her look that young for this commercial, I'm sure they can possibly pull it off on film:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBQze6nvtio#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBQze6nvtio#ws)

So it is possible. Yeah, I'd actually be down for that if they could do something that looks as good. I can't help but be interested in seeing the results of it at least.

God no! It looks like her with f**k loads of botox. Just creepy!

It doesn't look THAT bad. Besides, it's a DirectTV commercial from 2007, they probably had a limited budget. A Hollywood film could pour more money into making her look the part. Even if they don't, look at Red Dragon. It was a prequel to Silence of the Lambs filmed 11 years later. There was concern over Hopkin's age and him looking older, they planned to de-age him but ended up scrapping it assuming we'd all just accept it as is. In the end, it worked. I know 11 years is a vast difference from 30 years, but in the end, I'm pretty sure they can pull it off.

Quote from: Salt The Fries on Mar 03, 2015, 12:22:56 AM
Who else is for Ripley and Hicks living on a farm?

"Lead farmer, motherf**ker!"

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tumblr.com%2Fphoto%2F1280%2Fjeayese%2F106370579%2F1%2FrtFSt47ehnd3nkptUtRZIpK2&hash=3bf05eeac58e108539df0b4141cfc26ede82458c)

Remember, both Neill and Sigourney are talking about ending Ripley's story arc - I think that means either ignoring 3+4 completely, or developing the idea of all 3 human survivors being cloned perhaps several 100 times and being sent into space to monitor how they deal with the xeno in different environments. Perhaps it's part of an elaborate programme to make the ultimate war machine, part human part xeno, as the artwork suggests. That would also ramp up the hatred for the company.

I'd love to see Guy Pearce somehow involved. 

This won't be attached to A3 or A:R in any way I bet.

God I hope he doesn't ***k with Ellen....her closure was perfect in Alien 3...sigh...Yes Ellen is better than Ripley 8, but a TRUE visionary could end Ripley 8's story and make it grand much like Alien and Aliens, without resorting to poor fan-fiction ideas...

Quote from: Game_Over_Man on Mar 03, 2015, 12:39:04 AM
Remember, both Neill and Sigourney are talking about ending Ripley's story arc - I think that means either ignoring 3+4 completely, or developing the idea of all 3 human survivors being cloned perhaps several 100 times and being sent into space to monitor how they deal with the xeno in different environments. Perhaps it's part of an elaborate programme to make the ultimate war machine, part human part xeno, as the artwork suggests. That would also ramp up the hatred for the company.

I'd love to see Guy Pearce somehow involved.

And he's also said he wants to "fill in that gap" and previously stated he didn't want to "undo" Alien 3 or Alien Resurrection.  Maybe he just wants one last adventure with Ripley and Hicks, giving them some closure and having Ripley deal with a few loose ends. One being, the Derelict spacecraft. As someone said earlier in this thread, it also gives opportunity to explain the different cryotubes and mystery egg. I prefer this inbetween movies idea instead of flat out erasing what happened in Alien3. It's still all speculation though.

It's grasping at straws, the fact is that it'll an alternate timeline sequel.

As long as the film entertwines with Alien3 (at the film's conclusion) I am all for it.

Look, the dude is obviously doing his own thing, people just need to accept that at this point because that's all we know and to assume he'll fit it into the continuity or if Fox even wants that at this point is more conjecture than saying this is a separate continuity.

Quote from: Game_Over_Man on Mar 03, 2015, 12:39:04 AM
I'd love to see Guy Pearce somehow involved.

Ohhh, he could be a head in a jar like in Futurama.

I feel bad for Alien3.
By far it has the best movie score. Alone for this i can't forget that flick. And Ripley's jump scene...  :'(

Let's see which timeline i'll like more and if NB can make a better third part.
It can't get worse than Prometheus or AvP1, though. Right?  ;D

There seems to be to many ideals posted here for this next sequel. Taken words from Robert Rodriguez movies with too many ideals never really go nowhere. That you can tell they just had too much ideals and not simple to be affected. He used this techique for Predators. I kind of agree. Just make a awsome Pop-corn film! A sequel to Aliens and make a awesome film!

Quote from: stroggificated on Mar 03, 2015, 01:05:32 AM
I feel bad for Alien3.
By far it has the best movie score. Alone for this i can't forget that flick. And Ripley's jump scene...  :'(

Let's see which timeline i'll like more and if NB can make a better third part.
It can't get worse than Prometheus or AvP1, though. Right?  ;D

Also has truly beautiful cinematography and some terrific acting.

Like I pointed out earlier, look at the new quotes. There's no way this is going to be set between movies. Debating how is pointless.

He says that he thinks the third movie "never happened" and that, speaking of the post-'Aliens' continuity, "that's not the world I want."

Like it or not, this is going to be its own thing. It's replacing those movies - which is a better idea. Otherwise, there's no suspense and we'd already know what happens to Ripley and co.

The suspense will come from whether Lt. Elderly Cripley can even make it up a flight of stairs. :D

Quote from: Ed209 on Mar 02, 2015, 11:45:14 PM
Why not just change the idea to follow on from AR?
Ripley as Ripley 8, Hicks as Johner, Bishop as Vriess, Newt as Call and The Company as USCM?
A quick rewrite could make it all fit.
Honestly if they are dismissing 3 and 4 I would prefer at least an acknowledgement of a bad dream or something. As cheesy as that is, at least it would not render those films completely useless. Alien 3 is imo an excellent film, AR less so but still has earned its place in the Alien canon.

^ this^

It would take little effort to have the film fit into continuity.  I would rather Ripley 8 be the protagonist because she is a very interesting character and her mixed DNA fits in with the themes and concepts introduced by Prometheus.

Neill really seems like a butthurt ALIENS fanboy

Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 03, 2015, 01:37:51 AM
The suspense will come from whether Lt. Elderly Cripley can even make it up a flight of stairs. :D

That's a little mean, dude.  If Arnold and Sly can do it, why not Sigourney?  I actually think it would be interesting to see an almost 70 year old woman in an action role.

Quote from: MCP on Mar 03, 2015, 01:55:52 AM

Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 03, 2015, 01:37:51 AM
The suspense will come from whether Lt. Elderly Cripley can even make it up a flight of stairs. :D

That's a little mean, dude.  If Arnold and Sly can do it, why not Sigourney?  I actually think it would be interesting to see an almost 70 year old woman in an action role.

Arnold and Sly have trained themselves in a way that we can take them seriously

Quote from: Samhain13 on Mar 03, 2015, 01:55:43 AM
Neill really seems like a butthurt ALIENS fanboy

I agree. People be acting like babies.

Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 03, 2015, 02:13:22 AM

Quote from: Samhain13 on Mar 03, 2015, 01:55:43 AM
Neill really seems like a butthurt ALIENS fanboy

I agree. People be acting like babies.

I wouldn't want to anger him though, he may make the new chestbuster aliens analbuster aliens for all of the butt-hurt jokes.

Alien 3 is my favorite film in the series, so this news is a bummer for me.  That being said; I could be on board so long as they ditch that cheesy "family unit happy ending" BS that Cameron was trying to set up. (GIVE ME A BREAK!)

Quote from: marrerom on Mar 02, 2015, 10:40:26 PM

Quote from: razeak on Mar 02, 2015, 10:26:32 PM
Has anyone considered that Weaver may simply not like the way it turned out in A3 and A:R? Is she and the other creatives involved not permitted to fix something they may not like?

I know if I was involved in a property I felt was off track and wanted to retcon it to fix it, I would. I'm not even a big fan of retcons to begin with, but this is a possibility. The whole a painting is never finished thing...

I always got the impression from Weaver (in interviews and featurettes on the bluray set) that she likes those films and had a good experience making them.  This is why I find it hard to believe that she would get behind the idea of retconning them.

What made me consider that is the recent comments about finishing Ripley's story. It seems to me it means she isn't satisfied in some way.

Quote from: Samhain13 on Mar 03, 2015, 01:55:43 AM
Neill really seems like a butthurt ALIENS fanboy

He's a fan of both the first movies (not only the second), just not so much the last two. Rightly or wrongly, that actually puts him in line with most of the public at large.

They are going to have to go the "Dream" route.  Then set it 30 years later.  I agree with whoever just posted that about them being in cryo-sleep.  I mean if he just ignores 3 and 4 with the age differences how will that look?  As for the "Off the Rails" comments,  3 only went slightly went off the rails.  Resurrection jumped the rails.  But that doesn't mean you can come into a series and just erase two films.  A Betweenquel doesn't work either cause somehow Ripley, Newt and Hicks after whatever adventure they go on will have be back in cryo in time to crash on the Prison Planet to connect it to three.  So the best route is a Alternate Timeline Dream route. 

Quote from: Aquarius8 on Mar 03, 2015, 02:47:13 AM
They are going to have to go the "Dream" route.  Then set it 30 years later.  I agree with whoever just posted that about them being in cryo-sleep.  I mean if he just ignores 3 and 4 with the age differences how will that look?  As for the "Off the Rails" comments,  3 only went slightly went off the rails.  Resurrection jumped the rails.  But that doesn't mean you can come into a series and just erase two films.  A Betweenquel doesn't work either cause somehow Ripley, Newt and Hicks after whatever adventure they go on will have be back in cryo in time to crash on the Prison Planet to connect it to three.  So the best route is a Alternate Timeline Dream route.

They can keep Newt and Bishop in cryo for the duration of the movie and focus on Ripley and Hicks, if this does take place between Aliens and Alien 3. There are roughly 10-11 days in the timeline to play with if he intends to "fill the gap."

Fox can do whatever it wants.

Quote from: GQSioux on Mar 03, 2015, 02:56:20 AM

Quote from: Aquarius8 on Mar 03, 2015, 02:47:13 AM
They are going to have to go the "Dream" route.  Then set it 30 years later.  I agree with whoever just posted that about them being in cryo-sleep.  I mean if he just ignores 3 and 4 with the age differences how will that look?  As for the "Off the Rails" comments,  3 only went slightly went off the rails.  Resurrection jumped the rails.  But that doesn't mean you can come into a series and just erase two films.  A Betweenquel doesn't work either cause somehow Ripley, Newt and Hicks after whatever adventure they go on will have be back in cryo in time to crash on the Prison Planet to connect it to three.  So the best route is a Alternate Timeline Dream route.

They can keep Newt and Bishop in cryo for the duration of the movie and focus on Ripley and Hicks, if this does take place between Aliens and Alien 3. There are roughly 10-11 days in the timeline to play with if he intends to "fill the gap."

Fantastic Idea.  Never thought of it that way.  Have Newt out of it cause obviously they would have to recast her.  As for age difference  Hicks is already scared and Sigorney still looks good.  OK, but still somehow Ripley and Hicks will have to be back on the craft to crash.  Again that would be a crazy story.   also when you look at the concept art, it seems it is a Ripley and Hicks adventure espeically with the bombs strapped to her:

(https://milnersblog.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/alien-5-neill-blomkamp-together-hicks-and-ripley-artwork-by-geoffroy-thoorens.jpg)

Quote from: Aquarius8 on Mar 03, 2015, 02:47:13 AM
They are going to have to go the "Dream" route.

That such a cheap cop out and I wouldn't want this movie to go that route.

It's pretty clear this is a retcon. He's not using that term because he knows people don't like it, so essentially he's saying 'we're not taking those out of canon, we're just making a new canon." They just don't want to say it.

Quote from: evolution_rex on Mar 03, 2015, 03:13:55 AM
It's pretty clear this is a retcon. He's not using that term because he knows people don't like it, so essentially he's saying 'we're not taking those out of canon, we're just making a new canon." They just don't want to say it.

If he's "essentially" saying that they're not taking the two films out of canon, but making a new.. wouldn't that mean we have two canons and therefore, two alternate timelines? I'm just sayin'!

Quote from: RakaiThwei on Mar 03, 2015, 03:03:25 AM

Quote from: Aquarius8 on Mar 03, 2015, 02:47:13 AM
They are going to have to go the "Dream" route.

That such a cheap cop out and I wouldn't want this movie to go that route.

The thought of it makes me cringe. No reason for him to try and legitimize a storyline he clearly doesn't agree with.

They're going to ignore 3 & 4. I don't see how else it can be done and I say go for it. Alien 3, mainly the alternate bluray version is a damn good movie, but let's face it, Alien 3 was never what it should have been. It was rushed through for the money and no one had a good story to tell. They ran out of time and money and got lucky with a story Vincent Ward came up with along with the talents of David Fincher and an excellent cast, somehow managed to not make Alien 3 a total failure. As for any idea of carrying on with the Alien Resurrection story, you can toss that in the garbage pile. No cloning and nothing from that crap movie. I respect Alien 3 even with it's flaws because it stands on it's own as a good story and a very hauntingly beautiful movie, but Resurrection is the biggest turd in the entire series. I'm not sure why Weaver ever said yes to that pile of dung. Must've been the paycheck. Anyway, Alien 3 will still be a good movie even if this film does basically toss it out and rewrite the ending. So I say again, GO FOR IT!!! The concept art looks awesome!

Quote from: Vers on Mar 03, 2015, 03:35:15 AM
The thought of it makes me cringe.

And rightly should!

Quote from: Vers on Mar 03, 2015, 03:35:15 AM
No reason for him to try and legitimize a storyline he clearly doesn't agree with.

Although there is nothing stopping that, I just don't want to see the movie take that route. Again, cheap cop-out. It would be better if Blomkamp did what The Return of Godzilla (Godzilla 1985) did, ignore the previous sequels and not acknowledge them in anyway, and just continue on from Aliens. For me, I would be fine with that. To go the dream route almost comes off as insulting.

I advocate that he just straight up ignore and not acknowledge 3 and 4... Why? Because then it would give us fans even more power to pick and choose. Not that we already don't do that but it gives more power to us.

Quote from: RakaiThwei on Mar 03, 2015, 03:49:19 AM
Although there is nothing stopping that, I just don't want to see the movie take that route. Again, cheap cop-out. It would be better if Blomkamp did what The Return of Godzilla (Godzilla 1985) did, ignore the previous sequels and not acknowledge them in anyway, and just continue on from Aliens.

I imagine that is what he will do, especially after his comments about not rubbishing 3 and 4, but not continuing from them.

Alien fans will have two different sequels that they will hopefully like, and Alien 3 fans won't need to listen to folk bemoan Hicks and co, and so on.

Quote from: Samhain13 on Mar 03, 2015, 02:06:13 AM

Quote from: MCP on Mar 03, 2015, 01:55:52 AM

Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 03, 2015, 01:37:51 AM
The suspense will come from whether Lt. Elderly Cripley can even make it up a flight of stairs. :D

That's a little mean, dude.  If Arnold and Sly can do it, why not Sigourney?  I actually think it would be interesting to see an almost 70 year old woman in an action role.

Arnold and Sly have trained themselves in a way that we can take them seriously

That plus HGH/steroids.

Quote from: Valaquen on Mar 03, 2015, 04:10:02 AM

Quote from: RakaiThwei on Mar 03, 2015, 03:49:19 AM
Although there is nothing stopping that, I just don't want to see the movie take that route. Again, cheap cop-out. It would be better if Blomkamp did what The Return of Godzilla (Godzilla 1985) did, ignore the previous sequels and not acknowledge them in anyway, and just continue on from Aliens.

I imagine that is what he will do, especially after his comments about not rubbishing 3 and 4, but not continuing from them.

Alien fans will have two different sequels that they will hopefully like, and Alien 3 fans won't need to listen to folk bemoan Hicks and co, and so on.

So there will be a fork in the road after aliens. Then why not just call it a reboot? It isn't that difficult a thing to do. However it sure seems like he wants to have his cake and eat it too? He should lose the idea of having the movie take place between Aliens and Alien3 at the very least and just create a parallel universe.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 03, 2015, 02:57:13 AM
Fox can do whatever it wants.

Fox will do whatever it wants.  ;)

Quote from: MCP on Mar 03, 2015, 04:35:34 AM

Quote from: Samhain13 on Mar 03, 2015, 02:06:13 AM

Quote from: MCP on Mar 03, 2015, 01:55:52 AM

Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 03, 2015, 01:37:51 AM
The suspense will come from whether Lt. Elderly Cripley can even make it up a flight of stairs. :D

That's a little mean, dude.  If Arnold and Sly can do it, why not Sigourney?  I actually think it would be interesting to see an almost 70 year old woman in an action role.

Arnold and Sly have trained themselves in a way that we can take them seriously

That plus HGH/steroids.

As far as Hicks goes, or Biehn, he was never a muscle man action star, he was an average joe solider. He'll be fine just the way he is. :) Weaver or Ripley on the other hand... honestly I bet she just gets meaner and more bad ass with age.  8)

Quote from: Valaquen on Mar 03, 2015, 04:10:02 AM
I imagine that is what he will do, especially after his comments about not rubbishing 3 and 4, but not continuing from them.

Alien fans will have two different sequels that they will hopefully like, and Alien 3 fans won't need to listen to folk bemoan Hicks and co, and so on.

I hope you are right.. I hope to God Almighty, Buddha, Zeus, Odin.. That you are right.

PLEEEEAASE Blomkamp... Give us alternate continuities!! PLEEEEEEEAAAAASEEE!!!

Quote from: Feeds On Minds on Mar 03, 2015, 02:28:11 AM
Alien 3 is my favorite film in the series, so this news is a bummer for me.  That being said; I could be on board so long as they ditch that cheesy "family unit happy ending" BS that Cameron was trying to set up. (GIVE ME A BREAK!)

^This! But it is unfortunately too late for the 'We've somehow forgotten what kinda crap we're in for when we wake up' stuff.

Quote from: whiterabbit on Mar 03, 2015, 04:41:49 AM
As far as Hicks goes, or Biehn, he was never a muscle man action star, he was an average joe solider. He'll be fine just the way he is. :) Weaver or Ripley on the other hand... honestly I bet she just gets meaner and more bad ass with age.  8)

Or at least her stunt double will.

Quote from: Samhain13 on Mar 03, 2015, 01:55:43 AM
Neill really seems like a butthurt ALIENS fanboy

Yes, yes he does.

He says he wants to return to the world of "Alien and Aliens" when any Alien fan knows that the world of Alien is completely different from the world of Aliens. He thinks Alien 3 went off the rails, when in fact it's far closer to the original Alien than Aliens could ever be.

"where it went after Aliens was incorrect to me as a fan. I didn't want that world, I wanted the first two and that's what I want to go back to."

Look Neil, if you want a film full of space marines, cheesy one-liners and expendable xenomorphs then just say so and don't act like you're doing it for the first film's benefit because Aliens is as far removed from Alien as you can get. Don't call out Alien 3 for basically doing what Aliens did, which is being it's own thing.

It just seems like, once again, we are at the mercy of a fanboy who just wants the series to go in the direction that HE felt it always should have. The last few times we went through this we got a town full of aliens who's only purpose was to make a predator look like a god, and a clan of "super" predators who made the originals look insignificant and weak.

Quote from: Jigsaw85 on Mar 03, 2015, 05:55:28 AM

Quote from: Samhain13 on Mar 03, 2015, 01:55:43 AM
Neill really seems like a butthurt ALIENS fanboy

Yes, yes he does.

He says he wants to return to the world of "Alien and Aliens" when any Alien fan knows that the world of Alien is completely different from the world of Aliens. He thinks Alien 3 went off the rails, when in fact it's far closer to the original Alien than Aliens could ever be.

"where it went after Aliens was incorrect to me as a fan. I didn't want that world, I wanted the first two and that's what I want to go back to."

Look Neil, if you want a film full of space marines, cheesy one-liners and expendable xenomorphs then just say so and don't act like you're doing it for the first film's benefit because Aliens is as far removed from Alien as you can get. Don't call out Alien 3 for basically doing what Aliens did, which is being it's own thing.

Yup. It's comments like those that make me lose all respect for people dealing with Alien(s) projects. Trying so hard to sound like "real" (akak "true") fans who "know" what they're talking about - so down with movies, like the BS Bros, GearBox, Steve Perry etc., but in reality they're just excited 12 year old boys who wish they were Hicks blasting waves of xenos with pulse rifles, flamers and smartguns, backed up with a squad of ultimate badass Colonial Marines - total bug hunt, oo-raah!

Okay, this started a lot of in-fighting, well Blomkamp was a lot more harsh to the sequels than what I thought, but I really can't blame him.  As far as I see, he will make a film that will deviate from aliens and ignore the sequels.  I dont care to use the term retcon, mainly because that only applies if the sequels in the timeline of the official continuity are replaced and never happened. I could care less for the official continuity, and see this purely as a scenario that happens as the writer see it.  For me, making a sequel just for the sake of continuity does not guarantee a good film, lets see here, the 89 Batman series (ok I love Batman and Robin for just how stupid it its), Police Academy got worse with each sequel, the Matrix sequels, X-men 3 (which was retconned with Days of Future Past (huh, a film that was well received), Terminator Salvation, all the Jaws sequels, and the list goes on.
Point is the continuity of a film is ultimately pointless when a movie needs the bare essentials in order to be good such as good pacing, tension, developed characters, plot points need a set up and conclusion, the audience should be able to follow the film, consistent tone.  The restrictions of a continuity dont mean jack to me, it guarantees nothing, I don't want to see a film be restricted because another film screwed up, taking time to fix plot holes and make something stupid seem reasonable does nothing for the next film in a franchise but take focus from that films goal.  Alien Resurrection has a scene where they explain that Weyland Yutani was bought out by Walmart, I mean WHAT, and yes I think I heard that correctly (may be a scene only in the directors cut) but that nonsense doesnt need to be addressed in a future Alien film. Alien 3 is a better jumping off point for a sequel, the film had some really good scenes and ideas, but the rest was a jumbled mess due to the script. To me, I cant say if the next Alien film will be good, but maybe I can at least see Weaver and Biehn in their roles again

Quote from: TheSulaco426 on Mar 03, 2015, 06:21:31 AM
Okay, this started a lot of in-fighting, well Blomkamp was a lot more harsh to the sequels than what I thought, but I really can't blame him.  As far as I see, he will make a film that will deviate from aliens and ignore the sequels.  I dont care to use the term retcon, mainly because that only applies if the sequels in the timeline of the official continuity are replaced and never happened. I could care less for the official continuity, and see this purely as a scenario that happens as the writer see it.  For me, making a sequel just for the sake of continuity does not guarantee a good film, lets see here, the 89 Batman series (ok I love Batman and Robin for just how stupid it its), Police Academy got worse with each sequel, the Matrix sequels, X-men 3 (which was retconned with Days of Future Past (huh, a film that was well received), Terminator Salvation, all the Jaws sequels, and the list goes on.
Point is the continuity of a film is ultimately pointless when a movie needs the bare essentials in order to be good such as good pacing, tension, developed characters, plot points need a set up and conclusion, the audience should be able to follow the film, consistent tone.  The restrictions of a continuity dont mean jack to me, it guarantees nothing, I don't want to see a film be restricted because another film screwed up, taking time to fix plot holes and make something stupid seem reasonable does nothing for the next film in a franchise but take focus from that films goal.  Alien Resurrection has a scene where they explain that Weyland Yutani was bought out by Walmart, I mean WHAT, and yes I think I heard that correctly (may be a scene only in the directors cut) but that nonsense doesnt need to be addressed in a future Alien film. Alien 3 is a better jumping off point for a sequel, the film had some really good scenes and ideas, but the rest was a jumbled mess due to the script. To me, I cant say if the next Alien film will be good, but maybe I can at least see Weaver and Biehn in their roles again

I agree with a lot of what you are saying here. And honestly, if he wanted to retcon out A:R, I wouldn't be so thrown by it. But ALIEN3 is a very loved part of the franchise and I cannot take a person seriously who says that it 'doesn't seem like it takes place in the same world' as ALIEN and ALIENS. I would agree with that statement with A:R and have criticized it for this myself but ALIEN3, has iconic imagery, unforgettable music and dialogue. Everything about it to me it IS the alien series. I can't imagine the series without out and it's just pathetic to me to see such a serious, even if fascinatingly flawed, piece of filmaking thrown away just because someone wants to see more marines or Hicks. Ripley in A3 is just incredible in Alien 3. Sigourney's performance wa the best of all 3 films, and Dillon and Clemens and the scene with bishop's torso and the funeral and f**king GOLIC!!! Gone from continuity! And the Bait and chase scene at the end, and the lice infestation, and that part where the guy hits the fan and her eyes open... WTF man? How could this guy think that ISN'T a necessary entry into the series and be such a big fan?

I'm just so disappointed in FOX and Sigourney Weaver and especially Blomkamp for even thinking that it's so disposable. AND I REALLY WANTED HIM TO MAKE AN ALIEN MOVIE since I saw DISTRICT 9!
I don't believe all these years of this 12 yr old mentality of just wanting more guns and Hicks back, has led to this kind of BS and I can't say I'm bothered by offending anyone here. This has effectively ruined the integrity of the series beyond salvaging.

Im not saying I wont like or enjoy the movie but that's not all its about for me. I liked A3's bad decisions. I liked David Fincher since he made Madonna videos in 1989. I was excited when he signed on to direct. I had seen Charles S Dutton off broadway in THE PIANO LESSON and loved him in the play and was fascinated to learn how he and Sigourney worked together in Theatre for years prior. I liked that it came out so good despite all of the writing problems. I liked learning about all the different ideas that lead to what ended up on screen and all the fantastic sci fi writers and directors who tried there hands in it. And I liked all the religious subtext and the fact that it went totally over my head for like 6 years! And the SCORE is my favorite of ALL TIME! And the cinematography during the opening credits sequence blows my mind! And Ripley was bald! But you know what!? Holy sh*t braugh! We got HICKS back! Woot! Woot! He gonna shoot some aliens up! Psh!

It's not the same thing that I can still watch it whenever I want. It should remain the dark misunderstood Sci-Fi Drama end to a very dynamic trilogy and like it or not it is an ICONIC film in this franchise, that has aged extremely well and won over every Alien fan I know over the years... I'll say this again, I have no idea who these people are that hate these films so much.

Here's hoping Blomkamp has some incredible idea and is gonna get the go ahead to make a 3 hour movie.

Wow this guy can certainly talk the talk. I hope he's film is as good as he sounds he says it's gonna be. For everyone complaining about Alien3 being "disposed" it's not literally being disposed. If you still like it then watch it. Honestly people are talking like Alien3 is actually being destroyed. I've probably got about 5 different copies of it and I'll still watch it even if this new film is great. But f*** A:R.

I'm not a fan of Neil Blomkamp at all. His work is not of my taste. I thought district 9 was ok. It had good action and the violence was great. The narrative was boring and uninteresting. I wouldn't want to watch it again. I'm not interested in any kind of sequel. Elysium was abhorrent. I didn't like anything about the film (but I'm a fan of Jodie Foster. She's like a country woman who became a city women. Jodie is even shaped like a country woman. My real name is Jody). I have no interest in Chappie. Neil has good style but his narratives are boring and uninteresting. I was hoping that Ridley Scott or James Cameron would direct the extremely overdue sequel. Alien 3 was good by itself, but compared to the first two films it's utter crap. Alien: Resurrection was ok but compared to Alien 3 is atrocious. Compared to the first two films it doesn't exist. Alien 5 needs a director who is used to making sic-fi stories. A director who knows how to create fantastic character development with excellent back stories.

I think David Twohy would be great for Alien 5 (if Ridley or James are too busy). David has done a brilliant job with the Riddick series. I wish the last two alien films didn't exist. I don't think it'll be an easy task to connect Alien 5 with the first two films and erase alien 3 (notice how I didn't mention A:R. It has very few great qualities. A chance to erase that film would be greatly welcomed. It's like a few steps up from a spin-off. It's was just too campy). I thought Alien 3 was good. The characters and the dialogue was really excellent (especially the dialogue from Dillon). Most hardcore fans such as myself would like for A3 and A:R to be erased. We realize that Alien 3 was really good (god the prisoners needed guns and other weapons. It would have made the film better), and that it killed off two great characters, Corporal Dwayne Hicks and Newt (Rebecca 'Newt' Jorden). Actually, it killed off three excellent characters including Bishop II. Hicks wasn't even show in the film. He was only mentioned. The writers really crapped on the characters. Erasing A:R will be a walk in the park, but for Alien 3 it'll be extremely difficult. With a great director this task can be achieved.

I think Neil is a good director, but we need a great director. I hope the film makers chose someone else. If Ridley and James are onboard as producers and/or writers I'd complain less (a little less). I wanted to see a narrative that took place on earth, continuing from A:R.

---

Fantastic concept art. Ellen looks like the age she would be after Aliens. She cut her hair a little. I like shoulder length hair. It's short enough to make the character tough and long enough to make her beautiful. I thought the guy in the cocoon was Bishop II with out hair.

Quote from: Aquarius8 on Mar 03, 2015, 03:01:38 AM
OK, but still somehow Ripley and Hicks will have to be back on the craft to crash.

It's not going to dove-tail into the third film. The new quotes make that clear.

Quotealso when you look at the concept art, it seems it is a Ripley and Hicks adventure espeically with the bombs strapped to her:

I understand how some people might get that assumption, but it's one piece of concept art of many. We can't really make any assumptions about the amount of screen-time Hicks might be getting.

Quote from: Jigsaw85 on Mar 03, 2015, 05:55:28 AM
Look Neil, if you want a film full of space marines, cheesy one-liners and expendable xenomorphs then just say so and don't act like you're doing it for the first film's benefit because Aliens is as far removed from Alien as you can get.

Who says he wants that? Remember, he's a fan of both the first films. Like I said earlier, how do you know that doesn't mean we won't be getting a rehash of 'Alien', except with a maturing Queen? After all, the only concept art which features an Alien is of her. There's a grand total of none featuring normal every-day Aliens doing anything.

He liked 'Aliens'? Great. He likes 'Alien', too. Why isn't everyone bemoaning how he might be turning a space station into a re-do of the Nostromo?

This is why fandoms eat their own... We know nothing about this project and yet everyone's assuming they understand even the tone he'll be going for, never mind anything else.

I remember how 'Rise Of The Planet Of The Apes' made many people, including myself, shrug with indifference. Another movie about talking monkeys? Meh... I never even really cared that much about the original. But then I saw it and the end result amazed me. Same goes for 'Gravity'. A lone astronaut trapped in space? Doesn't sound all that great. I saw it out of pure curiosity as to how it would end. But by the end, I was well and truly impressed with what it did.

And you know what? While I didn't think that much of 'Elysium', at least the director's already owned up to how he should have spent more time on story/characterisation - and 'District 9' very much was like the above films. I didn't expect to be all that interested by it, but then I watched the thing and it captured my attention in a way I didn't think it would.

When the guy starts pulling out Pitchford-like quotes about how Colonial Marines (who we don't even know will feature, I should point out) are the most awesome thing in ever and that he's strived every day to build his own pulse rifle, that 'splodey things are amazing, blah-blah-blah, then maybe we'll have grounds to know what direction this is heading in. Until then, we don't.

The only thing I can honestly say about this is that the concept art gives me a 'Mass Effect' vibe - and that could very easily be a good thing.

QuoteDon't call out Alien 3 for basically doing what Aliens did, which is being it's own thing.

Those involved in 'Aliens' fought for a singular vision. That's not what happened with the production of 'Alien 3', by any stretch of the imagination.

QuoteIt just seems like, once again, we are at the mercy of a fanboy who just wants the series to go in the direction that HE felt it always should have. The last few times we went through this we got a town full of aliens who's only purpose was to make a predator look like a god, and a clan of "super" predators who made the originals look insignificant and weak.

And an 'Alien' fan-boy with a meticulous attention to hands-on design also gave us 'Aliens'.

If you get the feeling this is a glass-half-empty situation, that's your prerogative, but bad-mouthing a professional who's done nothing more than release a few token pieces of early concept art seems... Less than respectful.

He doesn't personally like direction 'Alien 3' took? Well, neither does Fincher. That puts them about equal. But it's not grounds for him to be insulted because of it. It's not like he's said, "That movie was a load of old shit" (even if some of those involved in its actual production effectively have). He's just said he prefers the tone of the two original movies - just like Ridley Scott does (and, I'm sure, the late HR Giger did).

Would it have been a much wiser decision to have continued after 'Alien Resurrection'? Of course it would. But it's a done deal. Crying over spilt milk is getting us nowhere.

I'm glad Neil is creating his own film after-all. I never understood why people love Alien3 so much anyway. It's a nice film, but it's not some arthouse masterpiece.

Quote from: MCP on Mar 03, 2015, 04:35:34 AM

Quote from: Samhain13 on Mar 03, 2015, 02:06:13 AM

Quote from: MCP on Mar 03, 2015, 01:55:52 AM

Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 03, 2015, 01:37:51 AM
The suspense will come from whether Lt. Elderly Cripley can even make it up a flight of stairs. :D

That's a little mean, dude.  If Arnold and Sly can do it, why not Sigourney?  I actually think it would be interesting to see an almost 70 year old woman in an action role.

Arnold and Sly have trained themselves in a way that we can take them seriously

That plus HGH/steroids.

Which without the right training are useless

There's no guarantee that this film will be any good either of course.

Fanboy service is just as dangerous as the originator of the series returning to helm another film.

I.E. Blomkamp could f**k this up as much as Scott f**ked up Prometheus. Well probably not.....but this film could still have egregious issues.

Quote from: Samhain13 on Mar 03, 2015, 02:06:13 AM

Quote from: MCP on Mar 03, 2015, 01:55:52 AM

Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 03, 2015, 01:37:51 AM
The suspense will come from whether Lt. Elderly Cripley can even make it up a flight of stairs. :D

That's a little mean, dude.  If Arnold and Sly can do it, why not Sigourney?  I actually think it would be interesting to see an almost 70 year old woman in an action role.

Arnold and Sly have trained themselves in a way that we can take them seriously

Ordinary woman in extraordinary circumstances. That's Ripley. She shouldn't look like she's been body building her entire life or anything. These things should be a chore and a struggle for her because she never wanted to be doing them.

And if he's going down the retcon route, it should be many years after Aliens, and she should be allowed to seem safe before whatever kicks off kicks off again. She's not Sarah Connor, she doesn't have a calendar with the end of the world pencilled in. Post Aliens Ripley should be a woman re-building her life, not a haunted survivor any longer. y'know, something a bit different, something that this series - at it's best - does really well.

I'm sure there would be plenty of lawyers who would be paying top dollar to keep her, Hicks, Newt and Bishop's memory files safe, at the prospect of suing Weyland-Yutani for everything they possibly have... Along with back-compensation for criminal negligence to the relatives of the Nostromo crew, which, with interest, might be even more than that which would be paid to the surviving relatives of the LV-426 planetoid colony.

I for one am excited about having an Alien 5 movie at all. The fact that they will bring back Hicks and Ripley is a plus. And with the director, you know that there'll be lots of action to go along with it, and hopefully it comes with a engaging plot. 

Quote from: KiramidHead on Mar 03, 2015, 01:02:03 AM

Quote from: Game_Over_Man on Mar 03, 2015, 12:39:04 AM
I'd love to see Guy Pearce somehow involved.

Ohhh, he could be a head in a jar like in Futurama.

We had a head in a jar in the alien universe already....

---

Quote from: Valaquen on Mar 03, 2015, 04:10:02 AM

Quote from: RakaiThwei on Mar 03, 2015, 03:49:19 AM
Although there is nothing stopping that, I just don't want to see the movie take that route. Again, cheap cop-out. It would be better if Blomkamp did what The Return of Godzilla (Godzilla 1985) did, ignore the previous sequels and not acknowledge them in anyway, and just continue on from Aliens.

I imagine that is what he will do, especially after his comments about not rubbishing 3 and 4, but not continuing from them.

Alien fans will have two different sequels that they will hopefully like, and Alien 3 fans won't need to listen to folk bemoan Hicks and co, and so on.

Imagine that Alien 3.2 ends being worse than A3.1! And all A3.1 haters start appreciating it! That would be ironic... But no no, I hope A3.2 its a fabulous movie! (i doubt it tho..)

---

Quote from: CainsSon on Mar 03, 2015, 07:45:25 AM

Quote from: TheSulaco426 on Mar 03, 2015, 06:21:31 AM
Okay, this started a lot of in-fighting, well Blomkamp was a lot more harsh to the sequels than what I thought, but I really can't blame him.  As far as I see, he will make a film that will deviate from aliens and ignore the sequels.  I dont care to use the term retcon, mainly because that only applies if the sequels in the timeline of the official continuity are replaced and never happened. I could care less for the official continuity, and see this purely as a scenario that happens as the writer see it.  For me, making a sequel just for the sake of continuity does not guarantee a good film, lets see here, the 89 Batman series (ok I love Batman and Robin for just how stupid it its), Police Academy got worse with each sequel, the Matrix sequels, X-men 3 (which was retconned with Days of Future Past (huh, a film that was well received), Terminator Salvation, all the Jaws sequels, and the list goes on.
Point is the continuity of a film is ultimately pointless when a movie needs the bare essentials in order to be good such as good pacing, tension, developed characters, plot points need a set up and conclusion, the audience should be able to follow the film, consistent tone.  The restrictions of a continuity dont mean jack to me, it guarantees nothing, I don't want to see a film be restricted because another film screwed up, taking time to fix plot holes and make something stupid seem reasonable does nothing for the next film in a franchise but take focus from that films goal.  Alien Resurrection has a scene where they explain that Weyland Yutani was bought out by Walmart, I mean WHAT, and yes I think I heard that correctly (may be a scene only in the directors cut) but that nonsense doesnt need to be addressed in a future Alien film. Alien 3 is a better jumping off point for a sequel, the film had some really good scenes and ideas, but the rest was a jumbled mess due to the script. To me, I cant say if the next Alien film will be good, but maybe I can at least see Weaver and Biehn in their roles again

I agree with a lot of what you are saying here. And honestly, if he wanted to retcon out A:R, I wouldn't be so thrown by it. But ALIEN3 is a very loved part of the franchise and I cannot take a person seriously who says that it 'doesn't seem like it takes place in the same world' as ALIEN and ALIENS. I would agree with that statement with A:R and have criticized it for this myself but ALIEN3, has iconic imagery, unforgettable music and dialogue. Everything about it to me it IS the alien series. I can't imagine the series without out and it's just pathetic to me to see such a serious, even if fascinatingly flawed, piece of filmaking thrown away just because someone wants to see more marines or Hicks. Ripley in A3 is just incredible in Alien 3. Sigourney's performance wa the best of all 3 films, and Dillon and Clemens and the scene with bishop's torso and the funeral and f**king GOLIC!!! Gone from continuity! And the Bait and chase scene at the end, and the lice infestation, and that part where the guy hits the fan and her eyes open... WTF man? How could this guy think that ISN'T a necessary entry into the series and be such a big fan?

I'm just so disappointed in FOX and Sigourney Weaver and especially Blomkamp for even thinking that it's so disposable. AND I REALLY WANTED HIM TO MAKE AN ALIEN MOVIE since I saw DISTRICT 9!
I don't believe all these years of this 12 yr old mentality of just wanting more guns and Hicks back, has led to this kind of BS and I can't say I'm bothered by offending anyone here. This has effectively ruined the integrity of the series beyond salvaging.

Im not saying I wont like or enjoy the movie but that's not all its about for me. I liked A3's bad decisions. I liked David Fincher since he made Madonna videos in 1989. I was excited when he signed on to direct. I had seen Charles S Dutton off broadway in THE PIANO LESSON and loved him in the play and was fascinated to learn how he and Sigourney worked together in Theatre for years prior. I liked that it came out so good despite all of the writing problems. I liked learning about all the different ideas that lead to what ended up on screen and all the fantastic sci fi writers and directors who tried there hands in it. And I liked all the religious subtext and the fact that it went totally over my head for like 6 years! And the SCORE is my favorite of ALL TIME! And the cinematography during the opening credits sequence blows my mind! And Ripley was bald! But you know what!? Holy sh*t braugh! We got HICKS back! Woot! Woot! He gonna shoot some aliens up! Psh!

It's not the same thing that I can still watch it whenever I want. It should remain the dark misunderstood Sci-Fi Drama end to a very dynamic trilogy and like it or not it is an ICONIC film in this franchise, that has aged extremely well and won over every Alien fan I know over the years... I'll say this again, I have no idea who these people are that hate these films so much.

Here's hoping Blomkamp has some incredible idea and is gonna get the go ahead to make a 3 hour movie.

You made me cry, really. Bravo! applause! This!

---

Quote from: Alien Jockey on Mar 03, 2015, 12:18:46 PM
I'm not a fan of Neil Blomkamp at all. His work is not of my taste. I thought district 9 was ok. It had good action and the violence was great. The narrative was boring and uninteresting. I wouldn't want to watch it again. I'm not interested in any kind of sequel. Elysium was abhorrent. I didn't like anything about the film (but I'm a fan of Jodie Foster. She's like a country woman who became a city women. Jodie is even shaped like a country woman. My real name is Jody). I have no interest in Chappie. Neil has good style but his narratives are boring and uninteresting. I was hoping that Ridley Scott or James Cameron would direct the extremely overdue sequel. Alien 3 was good by itself, but compared to the first two films it's utter crap. Alien: Resurrection was ok but compared to Alien 3 is atrocious. Compared to the first two films it doesn't exist. Alien 5 needs a director who is used to making sic-fi stories. A director who knows how to create fantastic character development with excellent back stories.

I think David Twohy would be great for Alien 5 (if Ridley or James are too busy). David has done a brilliant job with the Riddick series. I wish the last two alien films didn't exist. I don't think it'll be an easy task to connect Alien 5 with the first two films and erase alien 3 (notice how I didn't mention A:R. It has very few great qualities. A chance to erase that film would be greatly welcomed. It's like a few steps up from a spin-off. It's was just too campy). I thought Alien 3 was good. The characters and the dialogue was really excellent (especially the dialogue from Dillon). Most hardcore fans such as myself would like for A3 and A:R to be erased. We realize that Alien 3 was really good (god the prisoners needed guns and other weapons. It would have made the film better), and that it killed off two great characters, Corporal Dwayne Hicks and Newt (Rebecca 'Newt' Jorden). Actually, it killed off three excellent characters including Bishop II. Hicks wasn't even show in the film. He was only mentioned. The writers really crapped on the characters. Erasing A:R will be a walk in the park, but for Alien 3 it'll be extremely difficult. With a great director this task can be achieved.

I think Neil is a good director, but we need a great director. I hope the film makers chose someone else. If Ridley and James are onboard as producers and/or writers I'd complain less (a little less). I wanted to see a narrative that took place on earth, continuing from A:R.

---

Fantastic concept art. Ellen looks like the age she would be after Aliens. She cut her hair a little. I like shoulder length hair. It's short enough to make the character tough and long enough to make her beautiful. I thought the guy in the cocoon was Bishop II with out hair.

David Twohy?? Are you insane? We where lucky we got rid of him in A3 already! He is a nice guy and the first Riddick is a nice B sci fi movie, but  his talents are mediocre.

---

Quote from: CainsSon on Mar 03, 2015, 07:45:25 AM

Quote from: TheSulaco426 on Mar 03, 2015, 06:21:31 AM
Okay, this started a lot of in-fighting, well Blomkamp was a lot more harsh to the sequels than what I thought, but I really can't blame him.  As far as I see, he will make a film that will deviate from aliens and ignore the sequels.  I dont care to use the term retcon, mainly because that only applies if the sequels in the timeline of the official continuity are replaced and never happened. I could care less for the official continuity, and see this purely as a scenario that happens as the writer see it.  For me, making a sequel just for the sake of continuity does not guarantee a good film, lets see here, the 89 Batman series (ok I love Batman and Robin for just how stupid it its), Police Academy got worse with each sequel, the Matrix sequels, X-men 3 (which was retconned with Days of Future Past (huh, a film that was well received), Terminator Salvation, all the Jaws sequels, and the list goes on.
Point is the continuity of a film is ultimately pointless when a movie needs the bare essentials in order to be good such as good pacing, tension, developed characters, plot points need a set up and conclusion, the audience should be able to follow the film, consistent tone.  The restrictions of a continuity dont mean jack to me, it guarantees nothing, I don't want to see a film be restricted because another film screwed up, taking time to fix plot holes and make something stupid seem reasonable does nothing for the next film in a franchise but take focus from that films goal.  Alien Resurrection has a scene where they explain that Weyland Yutani was bought out by Walmart, I mean WHAT, and yes I think I heard that correctly (may be a scene only in the directors cut) but that nonsense doesnt need to be addressed in a future Alien film. Alien 3 is a better jumping off point for a sequel, the film had some really good scenes and ideas, but the rest was a jumbled mess due to the script. To me, I cant say if the next Alien film will be good, but maybe I can at least see Weaver and Biehn in their roles again

I agree with a lot of what you are saying here. And honestly, if he wanted to retcon out A:R, I wouldn't be so thrown by it. But ALIEN3 is a very loved part of the franchise and I cannot take a person seriously who says that it 'doesn't seem like it takes place in the same world' as ALIEN and ALIENS. I would agree with that statement with A:R and have criticized it for this myself but ALIEN3, has iconic imagery, unforgettable music and dialogue. Everything about it to me it IS the alien series. I can't imagine the series without out and it's just pathetic to me to see such a serious, even if fascinatingly flawed, piece of filmaking thrown away just because someone wants to see more marines or Hicks. Ripley in A3 is just incredible in Alien 3. Sigourney's performance wa the best of all 3 films, and Dillon and Clemens and the scene with bishop's torso and the funeral and f**king GOLIC!!! Gone from continuity! And the Bait and chase scene at the end, and the lice infestation, and that part where the guy hits the fan and her eyes open... WTF man? How could this guy think that ISN'T a necessary entry into the series and be such a big fan?

I'm just so disappointed in FOX and Sigourney Weaver and especially Blomkamp for even thinking that it's so disposable. AND I REALLY WANTED HIM TO MAKE AN ALIEN MOVIE since I saw DISTRICT 9!
I don't believe all these years of this 12 yr old mentality of just wanting more guns and Hicks back, has led to this kind of BS and I can't say I'm bothered by offending anyone here. This has effectively ruined the integrity of the series beyond salvaging.

Im not saying I wont like or enjoy the movie but that's not all its about for me. I liked A3's bad decisions. I liked David Fincher since he made Madonna videos in 1989. I was excited when he signed on to direct. I had seen Charles S Dutton off broadway in THE PIANO LESSON and loved him in the play and was fascinated to learn how he and Sigourney worked together in Theatre for years prior. I liked that it came out so good despite all of the writing problems. I liked learning about all the different ideas that lead to what ended up on screen and all the fantastic sci fi writers and directors who tried there hands in it. And I liked all the religious subtext and the fact that it went totally over my head for like 6 years! And the SCORE is my favorite of ALL TIME! And the cinematography during the opening credits sequence blows my mind! And Ripley was bald! But you know what!? Holy sh*t braugh! We got HICKS back! Woot! Woot! He gonna shoot some aliens up! Psh!

It's not the same thing that I can still watch it whenever I want. It should remain the dark misunderstood Sci-Fi Drama end to a very dynamic trilogy and like it or not it is an ICONIC film in this franchise, that has aged extremely well and won over every Alien fan I know over the years... I'll say this again, I have no idea who these people are that hate these films so much.

Here's hoping Blomkamp has some incredible idea and is gonna get the go ahead to make a 3 hour movie.

I like this rebuddle, very well thought out point of view.  I wasn't trying to call out Alien 3, Resurrection is a film that bugs me more than anything else because it has the tone of a sci if parody film but I was just saying that the new film is being punished for being in an alternate universe.  I think its geared more towards Alien 3 more than anything else.  Alien 3 is certainly a film that is divided down the middle, and based on who you ask, the film has a lot of good qualities that people love and some bad qualities people absolutely hate, I fall somewhere in the middle in which I dont dislike the film or necessarily like it.  For me personally, most people I know dislike the third film, the die hard alien fans I know are angry that Newt and Hicks died, and the casual movie goers I know who saw it just thought it was boring without the tension.  If the new Alien film it god awful, and It just might, Alien 3 will always exist, and I can always enjoy it for what its worth, no  new timelines or movies can ever change that

It occurred to me that A3 and AR could be Tyrell-style memory implants.  Why they'd do such a thing to Ripley is the question, but at least it's not something as banal as a dream.

I can imagine a scene like the one in Prometheus in which David was monitoring Shaw's dream though.  It wouldn't surprise me if they reference A3 and AR in a similar way.

Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 03, 2015, 05:09:29 PM
It occurred to me that A3 and AR could be Tyrell-style memory implants.  Why they'd do such a thing to Ripley is the question, but at least it's not something as banal as a dream.

I can imagine a scene like the one in Prometheus in which David was monitoring Shaw's dream though.  It wouldn't surprise me if they reference A3 and AR in a similar way.

no, thanks.

Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 03, 2015, 05:09:29 PMIt occurred to me that A3 and AR could be Tyrell-style memory implants.  Why they'd do such a thing to Ripley is the question, but at least it's not something as banal as a dream.

No. It's worse. Why the hell would anyone do that? There's no logical reason.

I wish people would stop coming up with these utterly ridiculous ideas, like it will make the people sad to see the third and fourth movies go feel better.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 03, 2015, 06:04:34 PM

Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 03, 2015, 05:09:29 PMIt occurred to me that A3 and AR could be Tyrell-style memory implants.  Why they'd do such a thing to Ripley is the question, but at least it's not something as banal as a dream.

No. It's worse. Why the hell would anyone do that? There's no logical reason.

I wish people would stop coming up with these utterly ridiculous ideas, like it will make the people sad to see the third and fourth movies go feel better.

I'm just spitballing.  I'm fine with A3 and AR being unceremoniously flushed down the toilet, myself.

Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 03, 2015, 06:06:34 PM

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 03, 2015, 06:04:34 PM

Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 03, 2015, 05:09:29 PMIt occurred to me that A3 and AR could be Tyrell-style memory implants.  Why they'd do such a thing to Ripley is the question, but at least it's not something as banal as a dream.

No. It's worse. Why the hell would anyone do that? There's no logical reason.

I wish people would stop coming up with these utterly ridiculous ideas, like it will make the people sad to see the third and fourth movies go feel better.

I'm just spitballing.  I'm fine with A3 and AR being unceremoniously flushed down the toilet, myself.

You have no heart :(   

I find it amusing how so many people here think that Blomkamp is being a selfish, narrow-minded elitist for opting to ignore Alien 3 and Alien: Resurrection with his new film. I've said it before and I'll say it again: He's actually coming from a far more common headspace of Alien fans here. It's far, far less common for people to like the third and fourth films than I think some members of this community realize.

Moreover, I don't think that anyone can just write off another person's credibility as a "fan" by basing it on whether or not they just like the first two films in the series. My dad and I totally disagree on Alien 3, but he's a huge fan of the series and has been since the release of the original film. I don't write off his opinion or love for the series just because his favorite entry is Aliens. Hell, the reason he's so adamant about his negative opinions on the latter films is directly because of his love for the first two entries.

The best option here, I think, is to just ignore A3 and A:R and continue the story from Aliens. Contrary to what certain dissenters of "rebooting/retconning" think, that actually does open up a lot more routes for creative stories than it would to just follow A:R. And before anyone asks, I'd be just as fine with ignoring Aliens and only following after Alien, but I'm rather positive that it's going to include Aliens in the canon of this new timeline.

I also don't think Blomkamp is going to 'sell out' and just retread Aliens. He's made it pretty clear that he's just as big a fan of the first film as he is the second, so I'm pretty confident that will play into what he comes up with. Especially since that one concept art seems to be indicating a return to the original "body horror" approach to the xenomorph's life cycle that was shown in the director's cut of Alien, while also including the Queen.

Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 03, 2015, 12:49:33 PM
There's no guarantee that this film will be any good either of course.

Fanboy service is just as dangerous as the originator of the series returning to helm another film.

I.E. Blomkamp could f**k this up as much as Scott f**ked up Prometheus. Well probably not.....but this film could still have egregious issues.

I am seeing some similarities between the language Blomkamp is using and the rhetoric used by the strause bros when they were peddling avpr.  It seems all to easy to get the fan base drooling by just mentioning that you're a fan of the first two films and not so much the last two.  Next he'll say he wants to "go back to the roots" and all the fanboys will hail him as the savior of the franchise before the movie is even out, just like what happened with the strause bros...  :-\

You know, there's nothing saying that, in later years, someone can't pick up the story from Resurrection and continue on...

Quote from: marrerom on Mar 03, 2015, 06:37:53 PM

Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 03, 2015, 12:49:33 PM
There's no guarantee that this film will be any good either of course.

Fanboy service is just as dangerous as the originator of the series returning to helm another film.

I.E. Blomkamp could f**k this up as much as Scott f**ked up Prometheus. Well probably not.....but this film could still have egregious issues.

I am seeing some similarities between the language Blomkamp is using and the rhetoric used by the strause bros when they were peddling avpr.  It seems all to easy to get the fan base drooling by just mentioning that you're a fan of the first two films and not so much the last two.  Next he'll say he wants to "go back to the roots" and all the fanboys will hail him as the savior of the franchise before the movie is even out, just like what happened with the strause bros...  :-\

That's not fair at all. Blomkamp is a proven director and delivers quality material. The Brothers were nothing more than clueless n00bs.

Quote from: marrerom on Mar 03, 2015, 06:37:53 PM

Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 03, 2015, 12:49:33 PM
There's no guarantee that this film will be any good either of course.

Fanboy service is just as dangerous as the originator of the series returning to helm another film.

I.E. Blomkamp could f**k this up as much as Scott f**ked up Prometheus. Well probably not.....but this film could still have egregious issues.

I am seeing some similarities between the language Blomkamp is using and the rhetoric used by the strause bros when they were peddling avpr.  It seems all to easy to get the fan base drooling by just mentioning that you're a fan of the first two films and not so much the last two.  Next he'll say he wants to "go back to the roots" and all the fanboys will hail him as the savior of the franchise before the movie is even out, just like what happened with the strause bros...  :-\

I can understand being concerned. I'm cautiously optimistic myself, considering the disappointment I felt after Prometheus came out.

But there is one thing to Blomkamp's arguable advantage that the Brothers Strause didn't have: credentials. Blomkamp's already released two films and is about to release his third. As I recall, AVP:R was the Bros Strause' directorial debut, though they had been involved with the special effects of other films prior. We know Blomkamp is capable of making a great film, as shown by District 9, but Elysium received a more mixed reception and Chappie's response has yet to be determined.

Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 03, 2015, 06:53:58 PMThat's not fair at all. Blomkamp is a proven director and delivers quality material. The Brothers were nothing more than clueless n00bs.

Exactly.

How can this be the case if he just claimed he wasn't going to undo 'Alien 3' and 'Alien: Resurrection'. I was erlieved when he said they weren't going to be erased. Don't go back on that now.

On a different note - Please don't use roman numeral, 'V' in the title of the film. Use '5'. Roman numerals are getting annoying now in films, and more particularly, games. It's too cliché.

Quote from: CelticPred97 on Mar 03, 2015, 08:34:49 PM
How can this be the case if he just claimed he wasn't going to undo 'Alien 3' and 'Alien: Resurrection'. I was erlieved when he said they weren't going to be erased. Don't go back on that now.

On a different note - Please don't use roman numeral, 'V' in the title of the film. Use '5'. Roman numerals are getting annoying now in films, and more particularly, games. It's too cliché.

Because they're not being undone. Those films still exist. It seems that he's just ignoring them within the confines of his own film and basing the plot around what was established by the first two films only.

This really shouldn't be that hard to understand, folks.

Quote from: CelticPred97 on Mar 03, 2015, 08:34:49 PM
How can this be the case if he just claimed he wasn't going to undo 'Alien 3' and 'Alien: Resurrection'. I was erlieved when he said they weren't going to be erased. Don't go back on that now.

On a different note - Please don't use roman numeral, 'V' in the title of the film. Use '5'. Roman numerals are getting annoying now in films, and more particularly, games. It's too cliché.

Not erase, just ignore- there's a big difference.

That being people can always watch the films:

Alien, Aliens, A3, A:R.

But after Blomkamp's film they'll have another way to watch it:

Alien, Aliens, Neill Blompkamp's Alien.

I really wouldn't compare Neil to Strause bros. For a number of reasons. For one, Neil is a hard science fiction fan, while Alien is hardly hard science fiction, it has its elements, it popularized the genre. Elysium may not be as swell as District 9, but it was still good. And District 9 was a powerful film, about subjugation. Making a film isn't straight point a to point b finish. It is hard. Ridley Scott is not an idiot, neither is Neil. And honestly, I am not expecting to be absolutly blown away, but I'm cautiously optimistic enough because this is a competent filmmaker, I don't know what you want to achieve by endlessly going over why everyone is so cynical.

Quote from: TimmyTurnersDad on Mar 03, 2015, 06:34:54 PM
I find it amusing how so many people here think that Blomkamp is being a selfish, narrow-minded elitist for opting to ignore Alien 3 and Alien: Resurrection with his new film. I've said it before and I'll say it again: He's actually coming from a far more common headspace of Alien fans here. It's far, far less common for people to like the third and fourth films than I think some members of this community realize.

Moreover, I don't think that anyone can just write off another person's credibility as a "fan" by basing it on whether or not they just like the first two films in the series. My dad and I totally disagree on Alien 3, but he's a huge fan of the series and has been since the release of the original film. I don't write off his opinion or love for the series just because his favorite entry is Aliens. Hell, the reason he's so adamant about his negative opinions on the latter films is directly because of his love for the first two entries.

The best option here, I think, is to just ignore A3 and A:R and continue the story from Aliens. Contrary to what certain dissenters of "rebooting/retconning" think, that actually does open up a lot more routes for creative stories than it would to just follow A:R. And before anyone asks, I'd be just as fine with ignoring Aliens and only following after Alien, but I'm rather positive that it's going to include Aliens in the canon of this new timeline.

I also don't think Blomkamp is going to 'sell out' and just retread Aliens. He's made it pretty clear that he's just as big a fan of the first film as he is the second, so I'm pretty confident that will play into what he comes up with. Especially since that one concept art seems to be indicating a return to the original "body horror" approach to the xenomorph's life cycle that was shown in the director's cut of Alien, while also including the Queen.

See to me, this is just behaving like a spoiled brat. It's about retconning altogether. It's not about how MOST people like or dislike Alien 3. I used to dislike A3 myself. I also thought ALIENS was the best movie I had ever seen for years and years...

But over time I noticed all of the psycho-sexual horror and Giger stuff was stripped from Aliens. Even the vaginal opening in the Derelict was removed for whatever reason and gradually those little things bothered me. For instance, the final scene's ridiculous 'and they lived happily ever-after' vibe.

Now I like Alien and Alien 3 as much as Aliens. So if you want to know why, as a fan of Alien 3, I'm so upset, try and imagine 1. If this announcement claimed to be a retcon of Aliens or a remake of Alien... That's the way this seems to me.

But more so, this is about retconning ANYTHING and virtually every single example I've been given thus far is NOT as cheap as this would be because the ALIEN franchise is known for it's realism. It's not Sci-Fi fantasy like X-MEN or TERMINATOR. It's grittier, and with the exception of A:R - which I wouldn't slight the idea of retconning, as much, is a franchise that built a reputation based on serious content.

To me, this is like retconning THE DARK KNIGHT RISES. Its not the same thing as retconning BATMAN FOREVER. If the problem is that DARK KNIGHT TRILOGY had a BATMAN & ROBIN tacked onto it,... 

I am honestly baffled why anyone cares when Alien 3 still exists. Nobody is confiscating and burning every copy of Alien 3 available.

I'm cool with the alternate timelines/continuity idea.

What annoys the hell out of me is people like Blomkamp and the BS Bros talking out of their asses, pretending that they have a legitimate artistic reasons to the route of their movie projects, when in reality they're just hopelessly stuck on ALIENS - they just want Hicks & Newt back, tons of cool weapons and the megalomaniac drive to be the one(s) passing the Alien torch forward by making a "worthy" (lol!) sequel to the magnum opus film of all films masterpiece ALIEN, directed by no other than God himself (aka James Cameron).

Blomkamp, just admit it! It's the wet dream of yours. Bringing back Hicks kicking xeno ass Cameron style. Everything else is just a pretend-to-sound-adult excuse to live out your fanboy dreams.

"Just admit it!"

Yeah, you aren't insane.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 03, 2015, 08:52:55 PM
I am honestly baffled why anyone cares when Alien 3 still exists. Nobody is confiscating and burning every copy of Alien 3 available.

I would like to see what people would say if Neill was saying to ignore ALIENS as well...

---

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 03, 2015, 09:00:16 PM
I'm cool with the alternate timelines/continuity idea.

What annoys the hell out of me is people like Blomkamp and the BS Bros talking out of their asses, pretending that they have a legitimate artistic reasons to the route of their movie projects, when in reality they're just hopelessly stuck on ALIENS - they just want Hicks & Newt back, tons of cool weapons and the megalomaniac drive to be the one(s) passing the Alien torch forward by making a "worthy" (lol!) sequel to the magnum opus film of all films masterpiece ALIEN, directed by no other than God himself (aka James Cameron).

Blomkamp, just admit it! It's the wet dream of yours. Bringing back Hicks kicking xeno ass Cameron style. Everything else is just a pretend-to-sound-adult excuse to live out your fanboy dreams.

I think you are too invested on that shit man...easy.

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 03, 2015, 09:06:58 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 03, 2015, 08:52:55 PM
I am honestly baffled why anyone cares when Alien 3 still exists. Nobody is confiscating and burning every copy of Alien 3 available.

I would like to see what people would say if Neill was saying to ignore ALIENS as well...

---

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 03, 2015, 09:00:16 PM
I'm cool with the alternate timelines/continuity idea.

What annoys the hell out  ;)of me is people like Blomkamp and the BS Bros talking out of their asses, pretending that they have a legitimate artistic reasons to the route of their movie projects, when in reality they're just hopelessly stuck on ALIENS - they just want Hicks & Newt back, tons of cool weapons and the megalomaniac drive to be the one(s) passing the Alien torch forward by making a "worthy" (lol!) sequel to the magnum opus film of all films masterpiece ALIEN, directed by no other than God himself (aka James Cameron).

Blomkamp, just admit it! It's the wet dream of yours. Bringing back Hicks kicking xeno ass Cameron style. Everything else is just a pretend-to-sound-adult excuse to live out your fanboy dreams.

I think you are too invested on that shit man...easy.

No, just the way I sound on the forums.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 03, 2015, 09:10:16 PM

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 03, 2015, 09:06:58 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 03, 2015, 08:52:55 PM
I am honestly baffled why anyone cares when Alien 3 still exists. Nobody is confiscating and burning every copy of Alien 3 available.

I would like to see what people would say if Neill was saying to ignore ALIENS as well...

---

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 03, 2015, 09:00:16 PM
I'm cool with the alternate timelines/continuity idea.

What annoys the hell out  ;)of me is people like Blomkamp and the BS Bros talking out of their asses, pretending that they have a legitimate artistic reasons to the route of their movie projects, when in reality they're just hopelessly stuck on ALIENS - they just want Hicks & Newt back, tons of cool weapons and the megalomaniac drive to be the one(s) passing the Alien torch forward by making a "worthy" (lol!) sequel to the magnum opus film of all films masterpiece ALIEN, directed by no other than God himself (aka James Cameron).

Blomkamp, just admit it! It's the wet dream of yours. Bringing back Hicks kicking xeno ass Cameron style. Everything else is just a pretend-to-sound-adult excuse to live out your fanboy dreams.

I think you are too invested on that shit man...easy.

No, just the way I sound on the forums.

At the end is just a movie and its most likely going to suck so...

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 03, 2015, 09:06:58 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 03, 2015, 08:52:55 PM
I am honestly baffled why anyone cares when Alien 3 still exists. Nobody is confiscating and burning every copy of Alien 3 available.

I would like to see what people would say if Neill was saying to ignore ALIENS as well...

Alien3 is largely unpopular, at least with this retcon I can understand why- Retconning Aliens simply wouldn't make sense.

The idea of retconning Alien 3 has been popular since 1992.  The Idiocracy in Space that was AR made me appreciate A3 more, but I never really liked it.

If we're going to do retcons, let's go all the way and get rid of all movies past Alien and make a film version of the Alien Trilogy game.  It will have all these missions and sub-stories only for the planet to just blow up at the end.

Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Mar 03, 2015, 09:31:54 PM
If we're going to do retcons, let's go all the way and get rid of all movies past Alien and make a film version of the Alien Trilogy game.  It will have all these missions and sub-stories only for the planet to just blow up at the end.

LOL

Hey, if we end up with alternate timelines, then I can make a direct sequel to Alien 3- Alien 4: Vengeance for Ripley, where Jonesy armors up to get revenge on W-Y. ;)

Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Mar 03, 2015, 09:31:54 PM
If we're going to do retcons, let's go all the way and get rid of all movies past Alien and make a film version of the Alien Trilogy game.  It will have all these missions and sub-stories only for the planet to just blow up at the end.

Wow.. People DO remember that game. Heh.

Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 03, 2015, 05:09:29 PM
It occurred to me that A3 and AR could be Tyrell-style memory implants.  Why they'd do such a thing to Ripley is the question, but at least it's not something as banal as a dream.

I can imagine a scene like the one in Prometheus in which David was monitoring Shaw's dream though.  It wouldn't surprise me if they reference A3 and AR in a similar way.

Technically, the dream hardware is something which jarred with the continuity, because you would have thought they would have used it on Ripley's constant nightmares to help figure out if she was telling the truth or not. Literally millions of dollars were at stake.

However... I could actually see the third and fourth movies being explained as someone attempting to induce her old memories (and those of Hadley's Hope) and viewing them on that equipment. That would help to square at least one circle with 'Prometheus'.

Again, I'd prefer them to do a sequel to 'Alien Resurrection', but that could be one way to bridge the gap.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 03, 2015, 09:00:16 PM
What annoys the hell out of me is people like Blomkamp and the BS Bros talking out of their asses, pretending that they have a legitimate artistic reasons to the route of their movie projects, when in reality they're just hopelessly stuck on ALIENS - they just want Hicks & Newt back, tons of cool weapons and the megalomaniac drive to be the one(s) passing the Alien torch forward by making a "worthy" (lol!) sequel to the magnum opus film of all films masterpiece ALIEN, directed by no other than God himself (aka James Cameron).

Blomkamp, just admit it! It's the wet dream of yours. Bringing back Hicks kicking xeno ass Cameron style. Everything else is just a pretend-to-sound-adult excuse to live out your fanboy dreams.

SEB, please tone this kind of stuff down. For the umpteenth time, we have no indication of the direction Blomkamp is taking - and he's a fan of both of the first movies, not just the second. Stop trying to turn him into Randy Pitchford. Seeing a picture of Hicks with a pulse rifle doesn't make this a high-octane slaughter-fest, any more than the pictures of Ripley hauling a flamethrower around from the first film.

He doesn't like the end result of 'Alien 3'? Neither does Fincher (or a whole host of other people involved in that production). That doesn't make either of them somehow monstrous and incapable of intelligent thought. It just makes them honest.

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Mar 02, 2015, 09:28:10 PM

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 02, 2015, 09:22:24 PM

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Mar 02, 2015, 09:07:20 PM
So egg-morphing confirmed as well?

I'd like to see it return in some capacity. I always loved that idea as much as the host idea. It's still quite a nice perversion of the body.

I think Blomkamp enjoys that kind of body-horror. eg. Wikus turning into a Prawn.

Looks like it huh? It probably stemmed from Alien in the first place  :laugh:

---

Quote from: KiramidHead on Mar 03, 2015, 12:31:39 AM

Quote from: Salt The Fries on Mar 03, 2015, 12:22:56 AM
Who else is for Ripley and Hicks living on a farm?

"Lead farmer, motherf**ker!"

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tumblr.com%2Fphoto%2F1280%2Fjeayese%2F106370579%2F1%2FrtFSt47ehnd3nkptUtRZIpK2&hash=3bf05eeac58e108539df0b4141cfc26ede82458c)

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I think they should just cut their losses and reboot AVP. Make it a non-canon redo of Aliens Vs Predator.

Siggy returns as a non-canon Ripley who fights xenos and preds alongside Schwarzenegger, who shows up as a descendant of Dutch. Set it on a remote colony with Colonial Marines and colonists who've armed up an are fighting these monsters for survival. It can still be a mix of horror and sci-fi war ala Aliens. It wouldn't need to be straight action.

Since it's non-canon it can also feature an old Michael Biehn as Hicks, as well as a grown up Newt.

James Remar could play a Colonial Marshall who was stationed at the ill-fated colony before it was attacked by the preds and xenos.

Quote from: Robot Sentry on Mar 03, 2015, 11:56:30 PM
I think they should just cut their losses and reboot AVP. Make it a non-canon redo of Aliens Vs Predator.

Siggy returns as a non-canon Ripley who fights xenos and preds alongside Schwarzenegger, who shows up as a descendant of Dutch. Set it on a remote colony with Colonial Marines and colonists who've armed up an are fighting these monsters for survival. It can still be a mix of horror and sci-fi war ala Aliens. It wouldn't need to be straight action.

Since it's non-canon it can also feature an old Michael Biehn as Hicks, as well as a grown up Newt.

James Remar could play a Colonial Marshall who was stationed at the ill-fated colony before it was attacked by the preds and xenos.

There is no way they are going to do that.

Quote from: Jigsaw85 on Mar 03, 2015, 05:55:28 AM

Quote from: Samhain13 on Mar 03, 2015, 01:55:43 AM
Neill really seems like a butthurt ALIENS fanboy

Yes, yes he does.

He says he wants to return to the world of "Alien and Aliens" when any Alien fan knows that the world of Alien is completely different from the world of Aliens. He thinks Alien 3 went off the rails, when in fact it's far closer to the original Alien than Aliens could ever be.

"where it went after Aliens was incorrect to me as a fan. I didn't want that world, I wanted the first two and that's what I want to go back to."

Look Neil, if you want a film full of space marines, cheesy one-liners and expendable xenomorphs then just say so and don't act like you're doing it for the first film's benefit because Aliens is as far removed from Alien as you can get. Don't call out Alien 3 for basically doing what Aliens did, which is being it's own thing.

*Sigh* Aliens isn't "as far removed from Alien" as you make it sound. Sure it was an action based progression from the original but that was a pretty smart decision seeing as a monster usually looses it's impact after the first outing. Not always though, and Aliens is an example of this. The first half of the movie is still very "Alien" in it's build up and the way they encounter the Aliens for the first time. It's scary. Even with the guns ablazing. Cameron clearly wanted to capture some of that build up and mystery of the first movie with the entrance to the Hive. And then he put forward the action tone he was aiming for after those scenes. And yet it still felt very similar to the situation in the Nostromo. The survivors trying to figure out how to beat this relentless foe. Just this time they're armed but there's more Aliens.

Alien 3 failed for the most part because it regressed. Maybe some disagree in the "progression" Aliens took tonally, but it was a direction that the franchise charged into. This never meant we wouldn't get more scary or tension building scenes. Aliens had these. But this movie was hellbent on returning to the old formula, with an extremely nihilistic outlook this time around. It really was more of the same from the original, just more hopeless. It's easy to see why it failed. This leads me to my next point:

QuoteIt just seems like, once again, we are at the mercy of a fanboy who just wants the series to go in the direction that HE felt it always should have. The last few times we went through this we got a town full of aliens who's only purpose was to make a predator look like a god, and a clan of "super" predators who made the originals look insignificant and weak.

Isn't this better than getting a director forced to make a movie in a direction that he didn't want to go in? I guess we can't compare yet since Blomkamps movie isn't out yet,  but Alien 3 was only this way because of the development problems and script changes. It wasn't intentional. Originally they were still planning to go at least partially in the action tones of Aliens. So now that another director, one who is a big fan of the movies and worked on this by himself, wants to go back to the original direction intended, people get this mad? Hell I liked the movie despite not agreeing with most of it's decisions, but it was never the sequel that was intended. Contract obligations was probably what got this movie even done. Fox just churned it out because it had lost too much money in it to not have it make some of it's money back.

This movie could very well suck but I find it hard to criticize it's intentions when A3's origins are worse. Aliens takes plenty from Alien, so it sounds good to me that he'll take from both.

Sounds like you already watched it. :)

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 04, 2015, 12:18:51 AM

Quote from: Robot Sentry on Mar 03, 2015, 11:56:30 PM
I think they should just cut their losses and reboot AVP. Make it a non-canon redo of Aliens Vs Predator.

Siggy returns as a non-canon Ripley who fights xenos and preds alongside Schwarzenegger, who shows up as a descendant of Dutch. Set it on a remote colony with Colonial Marines and colonists who've armed up an are fighting these monsters for survival. It can still be a mix of horror and sci-fi war ala Aliens. It wouldn't need to be straight action.

Since it's non-canon it can also feature an old Michael Biehn as Hicks, as well as a grown up Newt.

James Remar could play a Colonial Marshall who was stationed at the ill-fated colony before it was attacked by the preds and xenos.

There is no way they are going to do that.

I know  ;D

I was kind of joking a little, although it would give fans who do enjoy ALIENS some of that flavor without angering the fans of the ALIEN horror mode of this franchise. If they just came out and said "hey, it's not official canon" then we could maybe see something like that as a fun sidequel that doesn't trample on the main "Quadrilogy" canon.

I think they waited too long for this. Sigourney is old, the fanbase is kind of against James Cameron's ALIENS. It seems to me that after AVATAR, it's become cool to retro-actively crap all over ALIENS. I'm sure the Gearbox A:CM game just added to the pile.

That's not to say I don't want to see what Blomkamp is cooking up. I'm very interested in this. I just think that in terms of pleasing the masses let alone the hardcore fans, the hill he has to climb with this project is much taller and more treacherous than it initially might seem to be. I mean if Sir Ridley of Scott can't even do it, then...?

So it seems Neil is dismissing the last 2 Alien films AND doesn't worry about the opinions of fans, can this get any better? ;D

Quote from: predxeno on Mar 04, 2015, 04:44:25 AM
So it seems Neil is dismissing the last 2 Alien films AND doesn't worry about the opinions of fans, can this get any better? ;D

He's not declaring them non-canon, but he's not following that particular continuity either.. So... we got two routes!  ;D

Yeah, that was what I meant. ;)

Two routes after Aliens, and hey, if Blomkamp's sequel is deficient then we still have Alien 3. I know it's a compromised and flawed film, but damn it, that funeral scene with Dillon's words intercutting with the birth of the alien will be forever burned in my mind. Great scene.

Quote from: Robot Sentry on Mar 03, 2015, 11:56:30 PM
I think they should just cut their losses and reboot AVP. Make it a non-canon redo of Aliens Vs Predator.

Siggy returns as a non-canon Ripley who fights xenos and preds alongside Schwarzenegger, who shows up as a descendant of Dutch. Set it on a remote colony with Colonial Marines and colonists who've armed up an are fighting these monsters for survival. It can still be a mix of horror and sci-fi war ala Aliens. It wouldn't need to be straight action.

Since it's non-canon it can also feature an old Michael Biehn as Hicks, as well as a grown up Newt.

James Remar could play a Colonial Marshall who was stationed at the ill-fated colony before it was attacked by the preds and xenos.

They might well reboot the AVP stuff, but, in all seriousness, I'd hope they do it much more in line with what was represented in the first comic: Set in the future on a lone, self-supporting colony. I liked the refreshing tone of pace of it being a place which had a tropical-style environment (in the comic it was desert, in the script adaptation it was a jungle), as opposed to LV-426 where it was pure wind, rain and smoke. The way the Alien and Predator elements gradually began to encroach upon those living there, like a 'early era Hadley's Hope' situation, worked really well. Completely new characters, of course.

Something like that could be a great success if handled right (and if given more characterisation and sufficiently changed so that both Alien and Predator are a truly vicious challenge for one another). Every so often, I get that story out to read and it still feels very cinematic in tone.

Weaver would never do an AvP film. She doesn't even like the concept. On that note, I wouldn't be surprised if Alienkamp, along with the new Predator film, serves as a catalyst to a new AvP film.

I think we're due one. I think a new AvP is very very likely at this point.

They'll have a hell of a time marketing it, given how poor the last two were.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 04, 2015, 12:29:12 PM

They might well reboot the AVP stuff, but, in all seriousness, I'd hope they do it much more in line with what was represented in the first comic: Set in the future on a lone, self-supporting colony.

I'm sure, as DoomRulz says, the Black'n'Kamp movies a pre-cursor to a new AvP (not overtly, but if they hit, expect a third movie be it continuation or reboot)

Xeno, your last sentence really worried me as I just had a mental image of a director sitting there espousing why he saw AvP3 as "a kind of western, you know. The tough frontier life with hostile indigenous life... and then a new tooled up gunslinger comes to down... I think that American audiences really respond to the "old west" feel - you know, at heart there's a bit of the outlaw in all of us."

I gotta stop coming to this forum, it's making me crazy...

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 04, 2015, 01:25:08 PM
I think we're due one. I think a new AvP is very very likely at this point.

Eh... I'm a bit more hesitant on that one. It'd really depend on how successful both Alienkamp and Shane Black's Predator film end up being. Both films are in capable hands, but I think they'd both need to be absolute knockouts in order for FOX to want to be interested in trying another crossover film. I'd be more willing to wager that we'll see Alienkamp end up acting as the revival for the Alien franchise itself, with following entries starring a new protagonist (potentially an adult Newt).

Moreover, I don't think FOX would chance another AvP unless it was made under more reliable hands than the likes of Paul W. Anderson or the Brothers Strause. Despite the struggles that the Alien and Predator franchises have gone through separately, both crossovers represent the absolute nadir of either franchise.

Besides, DoomRulz brought up a very good point:

Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 04, 2015, 01:26:36 PM
They'll have a hell of a time marketing it, given how poor the last two were.

Quote from: TimmyTurnersDad on Mar 04, 2015, 02:03:50 PM
both crossovers represent the absolute nadir of either franchise.

I dunno, I'd rather watch AvP:R than A:R, I have to say. At least with AvP:R you can sort of see that they were trying to make a bloody, violent horror movie. A:R was willfully insulting (or playful if you're being kind) with the whole franchise. I'm no big fan of AvP:R - I think that it really went over the bounds of good taste in its attempts to be horrific, but the Bros were trying (and some would say totally failed) to do justice to what they thought an AvP movie should be (remember, their original concept was future world before Davis vetoed that).

Junet, on the other hand, was thumbing his nose at the whole thing.

Quote from: Russ on Mar 04, 2015, 02:12:36 PMI dunno, I'd rather watch AvP:R than A:R, I have to say.

I'd rather do anything than watch AVP:R ever again. To quote James Woods in The Hard Way:

"Not if you tied my tongue to your tailpipe and drove me eighty miles an hour naked across a field of broken glass!"

Resurrection at least had moments of competence. Requiem was a brainless, childish, sickeningly gratuitous clusterf*ck from beginning to end. It's not just by far the worst film in either franchise, it's one of the most appalling pieces of shit I've ever seen in my entire life.

Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 04, 2015, 01:17:16 PM
Weaver would never do an AvP film. She doesn't even like the concept. On that note, I wouldn't be surprised if Alienkamp, along with the new Predator film, serves as a catalyst to a new AvP film.

Multi gotta give it to FOX... $$$ 8) $$$

Despite the beatings they have taken over the years, the Alien and Predator franchises are still popular and influential. Look how much coverage we already have on Blomkamp's new film. I think if the new Alien and Predator movies succeed, they will chance a new AVP, but it'll need to be a reboot, and be set in space with the Colonial Marines. No more of this modern day, on Earth bullshit.

The problem with Alien 3 was that it wasn't a logical progression. From Alien to Aliens we had more action, more adventure, a little more of the xenomorph mythos and a little more of the Earth stuff.

Alien 3 was nothing but a return to Alien. There was less action, less adventure, less mythology and less Earth stuff. And also the characters from the previous entry were written off.

It became more instead more scary, more intimate and more painful, even more than Alien. One can argue it was a step backwards from Aliens, others that it returned to the original Alien feel and heightened it.


Alien 3 could have escalated into something even bigger: More of the xenomorph mythology, more interesting characters, more Earth stuff, more actio and adventure... I think that's what Blomkamp wants to do.

Quote from: Magegg on Mar 04, 2015, 07:33:37 PM
The problem with Alien 3 was that it wasn't a logical progression. From Alien to Aliens we had more action, more adventure, a little more of the xenomorph mythos and a little more of the Earth stuff.

Alien 3 was nothing but a return to Alien. There was less action, less adventure, less mythology and less Earth stuff. And also the characters from the previous entry were written off.

It became more instead more scary, more intimate and more painful, even more than Alien. One can argue it was a step backwards from Aliens, others that it returned to the original Alien feel and heightened it.


Alien 3 could have escalated into something even bigger: More of the xenomorph mythology, more interesting characters, more Earth stuff, more actio and adventure... I think that's what Blomkamp wants to do.

Why should more action be what is needed?  Alien 3 took the series back to its basics and reminded audiences what it was all about.  The creation of the dog alien did somewhat expand on the alien mythology and there were several interesting, well-rounded characters.  As for Earth, we know that setting an Alien story on Earth is no guarantee of quality.  The third film could have been a great film with action and lots of aliens but if one goes down this path recklessly (which could have happened considering how popular the franchise was at that time) we could have ended up with a Xenogenesis-style story where the aliens are little more than bugs to be killed by soldiers with hyper-advanced weapons.  Alien 3's greatest weaknesses were the problems caused on set with the constant script re-writes.  Had they gone with something more along the lines of the monks on the wooden planet, we could have gotten a story that was both faithful to the original film and a masterpiece in its own right.  I think it was good that Fox bucked the trend and went for something unique instead of Aliens 2.

Quote from: Magegg on Mar 04, 2015, 07:33:37 PMAlien 3 was nothing but a return to Alien. There was less action, less adventure, less mythology and less Earth stuff.

I don't want more Earth stuff. Alien is about space, not Aliens taking over the planet. But I find the mythology behind the prisoners in the third film to be some of the most interesting in the series. These guys who are just flung out into the ass-end of space and forgotten about. I really love the whole concept behind it.

Quote from: Magegg on Mar 04, 2015, 07:33:37 PMAlien 3 could have escalated into something even bigger: More of the xenomorph mythology, more interesting characters, more Earth stuff, more actio and adventure...

Keep escalating with ever more action and before long you just go over the top and get totally silly. That's one reason I love that Alien 3 went more low-key.

I made the decision to not watch this movie, I have far too much respect for this saga to witness a pathetic retconning.
I love all the movies in the saga, even Resurrection and I really don't think it deserves a lazy ass director like Blomkamp who isn't capable of bringing anything new to the saga without ignoring a storyline who has been around for the last 22 years.

I'm so sorry Neill, that missing Hicks and Newt, and all those cool explosions and xenomorphs dying by the dozens you feel the need to ignore half the saga you "love" to fullfill your selfish desires.

To me there is already a perfect trilogy, with a captivating beginning and a beautiful ending.

I don't need to see huge explosions, big guns, big badass marines and a geriatric Ripley firing her grenade launcher at a horde of angry Aliens.

We all know you're gonna watch it.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 04, 2015, 08:14:34 PMKeep escalating with ever more action and before long you just go over the top and get totally silly. That's one reason I love that Alien 3 went more low-key.

Yeap, like Matrix to Matrix 2 probably. One could also say Aliens derailed the series, at least Ridley Scott kind of thinks that, I don't know his opinion on Alien 3, though, but I don't think asking for an escalation from Aliens to Alien 3 similar to what can be considered a bad thing... It's matter of tastes.

But the fact no one can deny is that Alien 3 was not what most of the audience was expecting after Aliens... For good or for bad.

Quote from: Magegg on Mar 04, 2015, 09:10:22 PM
One could also say Aliens derailed the series, at least Ridley Scott kind of thinks that

No, he doesn't.

Quote from: Valaquen on Mar 04, 2015, 09:46:25 PM

Quote from: Magegg on Mar 04, 2015, 09:10:22 PM
One could also say Aliens derailed the series, at least Ridley Scott kind of thinks that

No, he doesn't.

He said Aliens was not what he would have done for a sequel...

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 04, 2015, 08:14:34 PMI don't want more Earth stuff. Alien is about space, not Aliens taking over the planet.

And they try to make us feel guilty by saying we didn't like Alien 3 because we were asking for "more of the same"...

Not the direction he would've taken it in doesn't equal derailed, that's hyperbole.

Quote from: Magegg on Mar 04, 2015, 09:54:18 PM

Quote from: Valaquen on Mar 04, 2015, 09:46:25 PM

Quote from: Magegg on Mar 04, 2015, 09:10:22 PM
One could also say Aliens derailed the series, at least Ridley Scott kind of thinks that

No, he doesn't.

He said Aliens was not what he would have done for a sequel...

If Prometheus is any indicator, I'm not sure we'd have been better off with Ridley's idea of a sequel.

Quote from: Magegg on Mar 04, 2015, 09:54:18 PM

Quote from: Valaquen on Mar 04, 2015, 09:46:25 PM

Quote from: Magegg on Mar 04, 2015, 09:10:22 PM
One could also say Aliens derailed the series, at least Ridley Scott kind of thinks that

No, he doesn't.

He said Aliens was not what he would have done for a sequel...

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 04, 2015, 08:14:34 PMI don't want more Earth stuff. Alien is about space, not Aliens taking over the planet.

And they try to make us feel guilty by saying we didn't like Alien 3 because we were asking for "more of the same"...

Maybe they were asking for "more of the same masterpiece".

In addition:

New premise ≠ Good movie

*Now I'm looking at you Prometheus*

Aliens is freaking "fanfic".

Quote from: predlord on Mar 04, 2015, 08:29:50 PM
I made the decision to not watch this movie, I have far too much respect for this saga to witness a pathetic retconning.
I love all the movies in the saga, even Resurrection and I really don't think it deserves a lazy ass director like Blomkamp who isn't capable of bringing anything new to the saga without ignoring a storyline who has been around for the last 22 years.

I'm so sorry Neill, that missing Hicks and Newt, and all those cool explosions and xenomorphs dying by the dozens you feel the need to ignore half the saga you "love" to fullfill your selfish desires.

To me there is already a perfect trilogy, with a captivating beginning and a beautiful ending.

I don't need to see huge explosions, big guns, big badass marines and a geriatric Ripley firing her grenade launcher at a horde of angry Aliens.

Lost some brain cells reading this.

Quote from: Jarac on Mar 05, 2015, 01:41:26 AM

Quote from: Magegg on Mar 04, 2015, 10:56:16 PM
Aliens is freaking "fanfic".

Then so is everything else that came after Alien.

Quote from: Magegg on Mar 04, 2015, 09:54:18 PM

Quote from: Valaquen on Mar 04, 2015, 09:46:25 PM

Quote from: Magegg on Mar 04, 2015, 09:10:22 PM
One could also say Aliens derailed the series, at least Ridley Scott kind of thinks that

No, he doesn't.

He said Aliens was not what he would have done for a sequel...

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 04, 2015, 08:14:34 PMI don't want more Earth stuff. Alien is about space, not Aliens taking over the planet.

And they try to make us feel guilty by saying we didn't like Alien 3 because we were asking for "more of the same"...

That doesn't mean that he dislikes it or that it derailed anything.

Quote from: Magegg on Mar 04, 2015, 09:54:18 PM

Quote from: Valaquen on Mar 04, 2015, 09:46:25 PM

Quote from: Magegg on Mar 04, 2015, 09:10:22 PM
One could also say Aliens derailed the series, at least Ridley Scott kind of thinks that

No, he doesn't.

He said Aliens was not what he would have done for a sequel...

That's not the same as him thinking the series was derailed by it. Unless you have a less catastrophic definition of derailed than the one I'm thinking?

Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 04, 2015, 10:29:19 PM
If Prometheus is any indicator, I'm not sure we'd have been better off with Ridley's idea of a sequel.

There were a heck of a lot of different ideas rumoured for the then-sequel, back then. One of them had the planetoid exploding for no apparent reason and a single egg shown as hurtling towards planet Earth.

That's what we potentially could have had instead of 'Aliens'.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 05, 2015, 02:07:30 AM

Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 04, 2015, 10:29:19 PM
If Prometheus is any indicator, I'm not sure we'd have been better off with Ridley's idea of a sequel.

There were a heck of a lot of different ideas rumoured for the then-sequel, back then. One of them had the planetoid exploding for no apparent reason and a single egg shown as hurtling towards planet Earth.

That's what we potentially could have had instead of 'Aliens'.

Oh God, the franchise would have entered silly levels about a decade early and probably would have killed the franchise right there.

In fairness, that wouldn't have seemed to 'out there' when you consider how trippy many science-fiction movies were in the seventies.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 05, 2015, 02:07:30 AM
There were a heck of a lot of different ideas rumoured for the then-sequel, back then. One of them had the planetoid exploding for no apparent reason and a single egg shown as hurtling towards planet Earth.

And I suddenly hear John Williams in the background with Marlon Brando giving a speech...

Quote from: Jarac on Mar 05, 2015, 02:16:31 AM

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 05, 2015, 02:07:30 AM

Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 04, 2015, 10:29:19 PM
If Prometheus is any indicator, I'm not sure we'd have been better off with Ridley's idea of a sequel.

There were a heck of a lot of different ideas rumoured for the then-sequel, back then. One of them had the planetoid exploding for no apparent reason and a single egg shown as hurtling towards planet Earth.

That's what we potentially could have had instead of 'Aliens'.

Oh God, the franchise would have entered silly levels about a decade early and probably would have killed the franchise right there.

Yeah, we let Alien 3 to kill the franchise instead.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 05, 2015, 02:07:30 AM

Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 04, 2015, 10:29:19 PM
If Prometheus is any indicator, I'm not sure we'd have been better off with Ridley's idea of a sequel.

There were a heck of a lot of different ideas rumoured for the then-sequel, back then. One of them had the planetoid exploding for no apparent reason and a single egg shown as hurtling towards planet Earth.

That's what we potentially could have had instead of 'Aliens'.

I don't know who those ideas were attributed to. I believe it was a journalist in Starlog or Starburst touting some of the ideas. Also I don't believe I read anywhere that it was a single egg heading for Earth but simply that all the eggs were launched into space by the planetoid exploding. Anyway, few of these ideas seem to have any foundation other than rumoured possibilities from an unnamed source.

Every single discussion on the quality of movies on this forum inherently boils down to "XYZ ruined it forever!" I got told off from saying pretentious, but it's not an insult. It means, generally, someone who speaks on art without being mildly educated on art, based on personal perception, speaking on behalf of the subject as fully educated. To say Aliens is a bad film, is pretentious. To start falsely saying Ridley Scott hated Aliens when he in fact didn't, is pretentious. Pitting director against director in an auteur worship sort of way, is pretentious. It's totally unnecessary. Like, admire a movie based on what it does well! Brilliant! If you put film art as this brutal world where one ruined the other forever is so clunky and ineffective and personal perception and experience as objective "No, this the way it is," or "Aliens ruined the franchise", is really a lot more mean spirited.

More evidence that Alien V is alternate universing Alien 3 and A:R (as if we needed it :P):

QuoteSo it's not about living up to it and being nervous about it, I just don't want other people to tell me what to do. Which is a different thing. 'Well we think in this film this should happen because it happened in that one.'  That kind of scared me a little bit so then I was like 'I'm just not going to do it, I'm just going to put it out.' But then I spoke to Sigourney [Weaver]. And I love Sigourney and her wanting to execute the story  that I wrote, and she thinks it's the right story for Ripley. So I was like 'Nah, I'm fully going to do this.'

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/03/04/how-district-9-director-neill-blomkamp-got-the-alien-gig (http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/03/04/how-district-9-director-neill-blomkamp-got-the-alien-gig)

That quote says literally nothing of substance.

On the contrary, it seems to suggest that Blomkamp is disinterested in following some of the Alien films, you'll have to read the article to get the full context.

Quote from: predxeno on Mar 06, 2015, 03:31:37 PMit seems to suggest that Blomkamp is disinterested in following some of the Alien films

Not doing his homework. Tut tut.

Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection went off the rails so far, they couldn't even see the rails.  The rails were in another city.  In fact they went off the rails so far, they forgot they were even a freight train.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Mar 06, 2015, 03:41:22 PM
Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection went off the rails so far, they couldn't even see the rails.  The rails were in another city.  In fact they went off the rails so far, they forgot they were even a freight train.

Kinda disagree, Alien 3 at least remained gritty and realistic, with the exception of the magic egg, Agree about Resurrection though, that train derailed and crashed into the O.T.T mountain was is filled with super silliness.

Quote from: The Cruentus on Mar 06, 2015, 03:45:12 PM

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Mar 06, 2015, 03:41:22 PM
Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection went off the rails so far, they couldn't even see the rails.  The rails were in another city.  In fact they went off the rails so far, they forgot they were even a freight train.

Kinda disagree, Alien 3 at least remained gritty and realistic, with the exception of the magic egg, Agree about Resurrection though, that train derailed and crashed into the O.T.T mountain was is filled with super silliness.

Yes and Alien Resurrection only happened that way because the studio knew that they had to have Rippers in the next Alien film because she carries Alien part of the franchise.  So Alien 3 painted the series into a corner.  Although Alien 3 as a stand-alone film is absolutely fantastic, it completely derailed the Alien series.  There was nowhere to go with a film that had the main character Ripley in it other than to do something like Alien Resurrection, so it was Alien 3 that went of the rails mostly.  Mostly...

Yeah originally Newt was to be the cloned one but the studio as always...had other ideas.
Personally not fussed on the cloning storyline either way.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Mar 06, 2015, 03:58:31 PM
Yes and Alien Resurrection only happened that way because the studio knew that they had to have Rippers in the next Alien film because she carries Alien part of the franchise.  So Alien 3 painted the series into a corner.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstream1.gifsoup.com%2Fview6%2F3398938%2Fwrong-meme-reaction-gvsu-o.gif&hash=c62e22b92cedb5b193651f5f48c6f429ad981827)

With a single pen stroke a screen writer could simply have new characters in a new setting.

A new corner to head to. ;)

Quote from: The Cruentus on Mar 06, 2015, 03:45:12 PM

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Mar 06, 2015, 03:41:22 PM
Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection went off the rails so far, they couldn't even see the rails.  The rails were in another city.  In fact they went off the rails so far, they forgot they were even a freight train.

Kinda disagree, Alien 3 at least remained gritty and realistic, with the exception of the magic egg, Agree about Resurrection though, that train derailed and crashed into the O.T.T mountain was is filled with super silliness.

This.

I never thought Ripley in Alien 3 was very necessary, and again her inclusion was the result of Tom Rothman feeling that audiences wouldn't see a film without her; but damn did Sigourney put in a hell of a performance that pretty much saves (or at least glosses over) all of the narrative missteps the film took.

Alien Resurrection though... even her performance couldn't save it. I genuinely hate some of her scenes and dialogue ("who'd I have to f**k to get off this boat?") If anything painted the series into an unsavoury little corner of the room it was that movie.

Sigourney is brilliant and so is Ripley, but the studio won't let the character go and that is what causes problems. As you said, she wasn't really necessary in Alien 3 because originally someone else was going to be the protagonist, however, her storyline in Alien 3 did (and should stayed that way) conclude her arc.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Mar 06, 2015, 03:58:31 PM

Quote from: The Cruentus on Mar 06, 2015, 03:45:12 PM

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Mar 06, 2015, 03:41:22 PM
Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection went off the rails so far, they couldn't even see the rails.  The rails were in another city.  In fact they went off the rails so far, they forgot they were even a freight train.

Kinda disagree, Alien 3 at least remained gritty and realistic, with the exception of the magic egg, Agree about Resurrection though, that train derailed and crashed into the O.T.T mountain was is filled with super silliness.

Yes and Alien Resurrection only happened that way because the studio knew that they had to have Rippers in the next Alien film because she carries Alien part of the franchise.  So Alien 3 painted the series into a corner.  Although Alien 3 as a stand-alone film is absolutely fantastic, it completely derailed the Alien series.  There was nowhere to go with a film that had the main character Ripley in it other than to do something like Alien Resurrection, so it was Alien 3 that went of the rails mostly.  Mostly...

What, no spinoff for Morse? Fox has no imagination...... :laugh:

Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 06, 2015, 04:02:48 PM

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Mar 06, 2015, 03:58:31 PM
Yes and Alien Resurrection only happened that way because the studio knew that they had to have Rippers in the next Alien film because she carries Alien part of the franchise.  So Alien 3 painted the series into a corner.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/3398938/wrong-meme-reaction-gvsu-o.gif

With a single pen stroke a screen writer could simply have new characters in a new setting.

A new corner to head to. ;)

B-b-but Hix...and Noot!?!

http://consequenceofsound.net/2015/03/how-neill-blomkamps-aliens-sequel-can-work/ (http://consequenceofsound.net/2015/03/how-neill-blomkamps-aliens-sequel-can-work/)

Quote from: GQSioux on Mar 06, 2015, 11:29:29 PM
http://consequenceofsound.net/2015/03/how-neill-blomkamps-aliens-sequel-can-work/ (http://consequenceofsound.net/2015/03/how-neill-blomkamps-aliens-sequel-can-work/)

More and more I just find myself hating reading geek sites like these. I just.. Clearly, some of these people are NOT in the know of things as we are. Or to better phrase, these people are not ahead of the game as we are.

At least they sort of talk about alternate timelines and how this movie affects canon as we are discussing. Christ.

Quote from: GQSioux on Mar 06, 2015, 11:29:29 PM
http://consequenceofsound.net/2015/03/how-neill-blomkamps-aliens-sequel-can-work/ (http://consequenceofsound.net/2015/03/how-neill-blomkamps-aliens-sequel-can-work/)

Like I said in the other thread - good article. Good to see that even ALIENS fans here and there find a retcon of A3 & A:R a lazy cop-out.

Does Dan Cafferty know what the hell he's talking about? Because he believes that Blomkamp is following through with Alien 3 and Resurrection when that's clearly not the case considering Blomkamp's more recent statements being that he's stated that this movie is meant to be the third, because if Blomkamp intended to follow through with 3 and Resurrection-- he'd have called it the fifth, not this movie being the third.

I really don't think that Cafferty has been caught up to date regarding Blomkamp's statements on the continuity placement of his movie, and that he's had no intention on using the Ripley 8 character.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 06, 2015, 11:42:55 PM

Quote from: GQSioux on Mar 06, 2015, 11:29:29 PM
http://consequenceofsound.net/2015/03/how-neill-blomkamps-aliens-sequel-can-work/ (http://consequenceofsound.net/2015/03/how-neill-blomkamps-aliens-sequel-can-work/)

Like I said in the other thread - good article. Good to see that even ALIENS fans here and there find a retcon of A3 & A:R a lazy cop-out.

Man, I hated those 2 movies; is it also considered a "lazy cop-out" that Ridley ignored the AVP films?

Quote from: predxeno on Mar 06, 2015, 11:58:23 PM
Man, I hated those 2 movies; is it also considered a "lazy cop-out" that Ridley ignored the AVP films?

He could've at least watched the first one and perhaps made changes to Prometheus to avoid similarities.

If anything, he didn't necessarily write out the AvP films.. only ignored them. Kind of like how, again, Godzilla 1985 ignored the previous Showa era Godzilla movies and didn't even write them out. If something isn't written out, it could potentially still exist in some capacity or another.

Predxeno, brings up the same points over and over- this one was already disproven in the "Neill Blompkamp's Alien is relevant to A3 but AVP is irrelevant to Prometheus" little discussion we had.

He should change his motto to "I lack basic logic therefore everything is canon."

Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 07, 2015, 12:13:13 AM
Predxeno, brings up the same points over and over- this one was already disproven in the "Neill Blompkamp's Alien is relevant to A3 but AVP is irrelevant to Prometheus" little discussion we had.

How is Alien 3 relevant to Blomkamp's Alien movie if it's not exactly following after it assuming it is another timeline? I mean that's like.. saying the Showa era Godzilla movies are relevant to the Heisei era Movies despite the two being unrelated timelines.

I know I keep bringing Godzilla up a lot but I see what happened with that franchise with the diverting timelines happening to Alien/Predator here.

Quote from: RakaiThwei on Mar 07, 2015, 12:16:11 AM

Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 07, 2015, 12:13:13 AM
Predxeno, brings up the same points over and over- this one was already disproven in the "Neill Blompkamp's Alien is relevant to A3 but AVP is irrelevant to Prometheus" little discussion we had.

How is Alien 3 relevant to Blomkamp's Alien movie if it's not exactly following after it assuming it is another timeline? I mean that's like.. saying the Showa era Godzilla movies are relevant to the Heisei era Movies despite the two being unrelated timelines.

I know I keep bringing Godzilla up a lot but I see what happened with that franchise with the diverting timelines happening to Alien/Predator here.

Relevant in general, comparisons will be made.

It's not the same with AVP/Prometheus.

Quote from: predxeno on Mar 06, 2015, 11:58:23 PM

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 06, 2015, 11:42:55 PM

Quote from: GQSioux on Mar 06, 2015, 11:29:29 PM
http://consequenceofsound.net/2015/03/how-neill-blomkamps-aliens-sequel-can-work/ (http://consequenceofsound.net/2015/03/how-neill-blomkamps-aliens-sequel-can-work/)

Like I said in the other thread - good article. Good to see that even ALIENS fans here and there find a retcon of A3 & A:R a lazy cop-out.

Man, I hated those 2 movies; is it also considered a "lazy cop-out" that Ridley ignored the AVP films?

I already replied in the other thread, or if it was this thread but earlier on.

Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 07, 2015, 12:13:13 AM
Predxeno, brings up the same points over and over- this one was already disproven in the "Neill Blompkamp's Alien is relevant to A3 but AVP is irrelevant to Prometheus" little discussion we had.

He should change his motto to "I lack basic logic therefore everything is canon."

Don't be rude, if you don't agree with other people's views then you can at least be respectful of them.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 07, 2015, 12:42:22 AM

Quote from: predxeno on Mar 06, 2015, 11:58:23 PM

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 06, 2015, 11:42:55 PM

Quote from: GQSioux on Mar 06, 2015, 11:29:29 PM
http://consequenceofsound.net/2015/03/how-neill-blomkamps-aliens-sequel-can-work/ (http://consequenceofsound.net/2015/03/how-neill-blomkamps-aliens-sequel-can-work/)

Like I said in the other thread - good article. Good to see that even ALIENS fans here and there find a retcon of A3 & A:R a lazy cop-out.

Man, I hated those 2 movies; is it also considered a "lazy cop-out" that Ridley ignored the AVP films?

I already replied in the other thread, or if it was this thread but earlier on.

Sorry, I guess I missed it. :(  Lemme check.

That's nigh impossible Predxeno, seeing as you constantly repeat invalid points I'd end up being rude at one point or another.

The difference here is absolutely no one in the outside world cares about the AVP movies being non-canon. Those movies were written off as jokes even before they existed.

Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Mar 07, 2015, 02:12:38 AM
The difference here is absolutely no one in the outside world cares about the AVP movies being non-canon. Those movies were written off as jokes even before they existed.

Shit, I don't think the average joe blow in the outside world cares about the concept of canon at all whatsoever.

Keep it civil, people. Don't be throwing personal jabs in debate.

Yep, never ever post while angry or frustrated, its a golden rule, and if you can't agree on something then agree to disagree, throwing around insults not only offends others but demeans and lowers yourself. Just because someone has a different view, doesn't make them an enemy nor does it mean you should you try and get them to agree with you, if you believe you're right about something and absolutely know it, be satisfied in that, no need to make others believes it, let them stew in their own views.  :laugh:

I can understand why everyone is on edge and frustrated though, the Alien V news seems to have stirred the hornets nest but peeps should hold their judgement until more info is available. Whatever happens, happens and there is nothing we can do about it, never worry about what you can't control, and regardless if it goes down paths we like or dislike, the film can either be good or a Requiem.  :P

This movie is a gift that will keep on giving I'm sure since the whole premise of this flick is a flaming napalm stick ready to stir the always foaming and boiling cauldron of ALIENS fandom and (vs) A3 fandom and everything in between. No matter the outcome this movie will be discussed relentlessly for many Alien geek generations to come.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 07, 2015, 05:28:54 PM
This movie is a gift that will keep on giving I'm sure since thr whole premise of this flick is flaming napalm stick ready to stir the always foaming and boiling cauldron of ALIENS fandom and (vs) A3 fandom and everything in between. No matter the outcome this movie will be discuses relentlessly for many Alien geek generations to come.

This... is profoundly true.

Every Alien film has stirred the fanbase in one way or another, so it'll be in keeping with the tradition. At least, it shouldn't be mediocre in it's impact, no matter what.

I imagine that fans of one film will like Alien 5 more than the other, or it could be universally hated.

Personally I hope the film is more like Alien. It's my favorite in the series. So I am pleased that Neil is ignoring 3 and 4, which honestly aren't all that great. I like bits of them, to be honest, but overall, I'm talking. Just not very strong films compared to the first two.

Granted, by the reviews that Chappie is getting it sounds like Neil is 1 for 3, so far. Here's hoping he finds his time and place with Alien 5.

Quote from: NickisSmart on Mar 07, 2015, 10:56:13 PM
I imagine that fans of one film will like Alien 5 more than the other, or it could be universally hated.

Personally I hope the film is more like Alien. It's my favorite in the series. So I am pleased that Neil is ignoring 3 and 4, which honestly aren't all that great. I like bits of them, to be honest, but overall, I'm talking. Just not very strong films compared to the first two.

Granted, by the reviews that Chappie is getting it sounds like Neil is 1 for 3, so far. Here's hoping he finds his time and place with Alien 5.

Haven't seen Chappie yet, and I wasn't expecting to much about it, but the reviews are not making me feel really confident about Neil directing (and even whorse, writing) Alien V...

That is assuming the fault lies with him, filmmaking is not a simple process.

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Mar 09, 2015, 02:37:23 PM

Quote from: NickisSmart on Mar 07, 2015, 10:56:13 PM
I imagine that fans of one film will like Alien 5 more than the other, or it could be universally hated.

Personally I hope the film is more like Alien. It's my favorite in the series. So I am pleased that Neil is ignoring 3 and 4, which honestly aren't all that great. I like bits of them, to be honest, but overall, I'm talking. Just not very strong films compared to the first two.

Granted, by the reviews that Chappie is getting it sounds like Neil is 1 for 3, so far. Here's hoping he finds his time and place with Alien 5.

Haven't seen Chappie yet, and I wasn't expecting to much about it, but the reviews are not making me feel really confident about Neil directing (and even whorse, writing) Alien V...

Looking at user-reviews some are saying the film might be recieving more flak than it should be. I have to see it myself, of course, before I render a judgment. One of my favorite reviewers  (JeremyJahns) says that it's a movie with great ideas and he loves the character of Chappie, but that the writing and story take a turn that made it weaker. Otherwise the visuals were excellent.

I've said it over and over: all the man needs to do is give his ideas over to stronger writers who will take the writing from "meh" to good.

Chappie really had some good emotional moments in it which I hope Neil can bring to Alien V. One of my favourite things about Alien was the constant draining effect the film has on the viewer because the Alien picks people off without blinking twice, really driving home the point that this thing is almost invincible.

Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 09, 2015, 02:54:22 PM
Chappie really had some good emotional moments in it which I hope Neil can bring to Alien V. One of my favourite things about Alien was the constant draining effect the film has on the viewer because the Alien picks people off without blinking twice, really driving home the point that this thing is almost invincible.

Unfortunately that is why people sometimes criticizes Alien 3, because it drained too much, left them depressed but then it was suppose to be a depressing film, bleakness and hopelessness was its message.

Chappie wasn't as bleak as A3. Chappie had dark moments, but not to the point where it made me not want to watch it again the next day.

In fact I wouldn't say Chappie was bleak at all. It had dark moments but I thought the ending and it's overall message were quite hopeful.

I think the reaction to CHAPPIE has put some things into perspective.

Blomkamp's Alien project is likely to be just as divisive as what we have already seen.

The fact is ALIENS expanded the series to a place that requires further expansion, be it character arch or alien lifecycle, or anything... To make sense as a film, the installments have to further expand and they all have and every single expansion has since been a divisive thing. Yes, some are more universally panned than others - but this is the exception that PROVES the rule.

The fact is, that every single Alien film since A3 has it's detractors. A3, A:R, AVP, AVP-R, and PROMETHEUS.
Personally, I believe Alien 3 to be the best of those 5, by far, and I think you will find that many people agree it's better than the rest.
I also like PROMETHEUS, even if there were things I would have done differently. As CAMERON said, 'You can say that about any movie.'

But the series cannot go further without providing answers to some things and without demanding some sort of progression. It has always been this elements fans dislike.

So we have to consider that ALIEN 5 will do the same thing, and at some point learn to except that there is no way people will get what they want. So if we all just bump heads saying 'It should have been more like this, or more like that..,' we are just making our own beds. Because it won't be. It will be what Blomkamp wants the Alien 3 to be, and Ridley Scott wants it to be.
What we should have learned from PROMETHEUS, by now, is that there is no way to deliver fresh pizza to 6 million people who want you to intuit their favorite ingredients and have it delivered yesterday.

Quote from: The Cruentus on Mar 09, 2015, 03:24:37 PM
Unfortunately that is why people sometimes criticizes Alien 3, because it drained too much, left them depressed but then it was suppose to be a depressing film, bleakness and hopelessness was its message.

Not overly so. The thing was, nobody really cared, by and large, because the majority of characters were either not memorable or even seemed deserving of their fates. Especially after the attempted gang-rape of Ripley. When a prisoner gets slashed in the face, there just wasn't the same reaction in audiences as when Dallas or Lambert met their respective ends. It's generally a case of, "Oh, another one." There's mostly no emotional connection.

'Alien Isolation' proves that a nihilistic tone can be embraced, so long as it is presented well.

Chappie doesn't deserve the flak it's been receiving. It has faults - definitely in the story department but the characters and tone of the film are great. It's an intensely emotionally brutal film as well, very Alien3-esque in how brutal Fincher's film is to Ripley.

Yeah, the script is at times pretty weak and some of the acting is dodgy, but the pros definitely outweigh the cons.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 10, 2015, 02:57:15 AM

Quote from: The Cruentus on Mar 09, 2015, 03:24:37 PM
Unfortunately that is why people sometimes criticizes Alien 3, because it drained too much, left them depressed but then it was suppose to be a depressing film, bleakness and hopelessness was its message.

Not overly so. The thing was, nobody really cared, by and large, because the majority of characters were either not memorable or even seemed deserving of their fates. Especially after the attempted gang-rape of Ripley. When a prisoner gets slashed in the face, there just wasn't the same reaction in audiences as when Dallas or Lambert met their respective ends. It's generally a case of, "Oh, another one." There's mostly no emotional connection.

'Alien Isolation' proves that a nihilistic tone can be embraced, so long as it is presented well.

I liked Alien 3, bloopers ala magic egg aside of course, I think it wrapped up Ripley's story nicely and shows how cruel and unforgiving the universe is, kinda like real life. Isolation had plenty of hope spots though. What finalized the bleak and hopeless atmosphere in Alien is when you know Ripley is doomed.

Alien 3 actually had a lot of hope.  Ripley's sacrifice was the ultimate heroic act.

It wasn't a sacrifice, she was dead anyway and she knew it, we knew it, hence there was no hope, the heroic part is that she prevented W-Y from getting the Queen

Quote from: The Cruentus on Mar 10, 2015, 01:24:41 PM
It wasn't a sacrifice, she was dead anyway and she knew it, we knew it, hence there was no hope, the heroic part is that she prevented W-Y from getting the Queen

She wasn't dead anyway.  She could have been saved by their medical team.  This is made very clear in the Assembley Cut, but Fox imposed a change so we see the queen bursting out of her, but that wasn't in the original cut.

Quote from: MCP on Mar 10, 2015, 01:27:26 PMShe wasn't dead anyway.  She could have been saved by their medical team.  This is made very clear in the Assembley Cut, but Fox imposed a change so we see the queen bursting out of her, but that wasn't in the original cut.

Yeah, the original Burster-less ending implies there was a chance she could've been saved.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 10, 2015, 09:00:34 AM
Chappie doesn't deserve the flak it's been receiving. It has faults - definitely in the story department but the characters and tone of the film are great. It's an intensely emotionally brutal film as well, very Alien3-esque in how brutal Fincher's film is to Ripley.

The biggest criticism directed at Chappie seems to be that critics think the film doesn't understand what it wants to be; some sort of commentary or general action film. I didn't pick up on much in the way of political commentary/critique. I can see elements of that when I think about it but it didn't hit the first time I saw the film.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 10, 2015, 02:57:15 AM

Quote from: The Cruentus on Mar 09, 2015, 03:24:37 PM
Unfortunately that is why people sometimes criticizes Alien 3, because it drained too much, left them depressed but then it was suppose to be a depressing film, bleakness and hopelessness was its message.

Not overly so. The thing was, nobody really cared, by and large, because the majority of characters were either not memorable or even seemed deserving of their fates. Especially after the attempted gang-rape of Ripley. When a prisoner gets slashed in the face, there just wasn't the same reaction in audiences as when Dallas or Lambert met their respective ends. It's generally a case of, "Oh, another one." There's mostly no emotional connection.

'Alien Isolation' proves that a nihilistic tone can be embraced, so long as it is presented well.

This!!! You said it spot on. My biggest complaints about A3 have always been that i just didn't care about a single person in that movie and when they died. If someone lets an Alien loose in a prison filled with murderers and rapists, I'm not going to care AT ALL. The film would have played out much better if Ripley was in that prison with Newt and Hicks also, and the three of them had to make it through all that mess. And maybe if the movie tried a bit harder to get a few more "good guys/girls" in there to care about that were not murderers and rapists that would have helped it not suck as much.

Quote from: Samus007 on Mar 10, 2015, 01:46:59 PM

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 10, 2015, 02:57:15 AM

Quote from: The Cruentus on Mar 09, 2015, 03:24:37 PM
Unfortunately that is why people sometimes criticizes Alien 3, because it drained too much, left them depressed but then it was suppose to be a depressing film, bleakness and hopelessness was its message.

Not overly so. The thing was, nobody really cared, by and large, because the majority of characters were either not memorable or even seemed deserving of their fates. Especially after the attempted gang-rape of Ripley. When a prisoner gets slashed in the face, there just wasn't the same reaction in audiences as when Dallas or Lambert met their respective ends. It's generally a case of, "Oh, another one." There's mostly no emotional connection.

'Alien Isolation' proves that a nihilistic tone can be embraced, so long as it is presented well.

This!!! You said it spot on. My biggest complaints about A3 have always been that i just didn't care about a single person in that movie and when they died. If someone lets an Alien loose in a prison filled with murderers and rapists, I'm not going to care AT ALL. The film would have played out much better if Ripley was in that prison with Newt and Hicks also, and the three of them had to make it through all that mess. And maybe if the movie tried a bit harder to get a few more "good guys/girls" in there to care about that were not murderers and rapists that would have helped it not suck as much.

I think you missed the point of the film. 

No. I got the point of it.

Quote from: Samus007 on Mar 10, 2015, 01:46:59 PMThe film would have played out much better if Ripley was in that prison with Newt and Hicks also, and the three of them had to make it through all that mess.

How would having Hicks and Newt there too be any different to following just Ripley? It's still not going to make you care about the other background inmates.

Plus, you know, Ripley being on her own was kind of the crux of the film.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 10, 2015, 02:57:27 PM

Quote from: Samus007 on Mar 10, 2015, 01:46:59 PMThe film would have played out much better if Ripley was in that prison with Newt and Hicks also, and the three of them had to make it through all that mess.

How would having Hicks and Newt there too be any different to following just Ripley? It's still not going to make you care about the other background inmates.

Plus, you know, Ripley being on her own was kind of the crux of the film.

Just would have given the movie weight. More people to care for. I've seen the movie 30+ times over my life cause its an Alien movie and I just can't help myself to watch them (Alien 4 is pretty much unwatchable though). To me A3 will always be a movie that was a good film, but a terrible sequel. I will never forget walking out of that theater opening night and hearing so many people say, "what was that crap" and agreeing with it. Depressing.

I get that it was meant to be Ripley all alone in the worst place imaginable, but it never worked for me. Why the movie even wastes time trying to get me to care for inmates in the first place was a waste. But, there is enough threads on A3 I guess so I won't go too into this, but I am all in favor of a retcon of A3 and A4 and I hope NB can do it right.

I would have still killed Hicks in Alien 3. At least, in a variation of the version of the film that we received.

I always thought that in the film that we have to work with, if I could somehow "magic" Hicks into the movie, i'd basically place his death where "Junior" died. Sacrificing himself about halfway through to contain the Alien in the trap. Up to that point it would have been Hicks defending Ripley from being raped, and constantly watching after Newt as the creepier inmates leered.

Newt would have survived instead of Morse.

Ripley's willingness to die would not come nearly so easy because Newt would still be around. Newt would even be a witness to Ripley's sacrifice.

The emphasis on self-sacrifice would be much greater amongst the prisoners. Instead of the "f**k it, let's go for it" that it's given in the film near the end, the more nasty among them getting slaughtered would force a much greater sense of repentance out of the rest. Building up to Ripley's ultimate sacrifice at the end. I would have also driven home Ripley's chance at salvation, by having the WY guys talk about the surgery amongst themselves.

Like, they actually intend to let her live. That way it's down to simply keeping the Alien out of their hands, and it actually keeps the company from being "teh Evilz" instead they're more negligent and ignorant. Ripley could very easily wash her hands of the entire situation, walk away, just as Michael Bishop says, and with Newt still alive she has a strong reason not to kill herself... But she knows she's gotta do what's right for all of humanity.

Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 10, 2015, 03:28:23 PMLike, they actually intend to let her live. That way it's down to simply keeping the Alien out of their hands, and it actually keeps the company from being "teh Evilz" instead they're more negligent and ignorant.

That's one of the reasons I like the added bit where the scientist speaks in the Assembly Cut. It's only a single line about her being "out for a few hours" during the surgery, but I like that it implies they really do mean to save her.

Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 10, 2015, 03:28:23 PM
I would have still killed Hicks in Alien 3. At least, in a variation of the version of the film that we received.

I always thought that in the film that we have to work with, if I could somehow "magic" Hicks into the movie, i'd basically place his death where "Junior" died. Sacrificing himself about halfway through to contain the Alien in the trap. Up to that point it would have been Hicks defending Ripley from being raped, and constantly watching after Newt as the creepier inmates leered.

Newt would have survived instead of Morse.

Ripley's willingness to die would not come nearly so easy because Newt would still be around. Newt would even be a witness to Ripley's sacrifice.

The emphasis on self-sacrifice would be much greater amongst the prisoners. Instead of the "f**k it, let's go for it" that it's given in the film near the end, the more nasty among them getting slaughtered would force a much greater sense of repentance out of the rest. Building up to Ripley's ultimate sacrifice at the end. I would have also driven home Ripley's chance at salvation, by having the WY guys talk about the surgery amongst themselves.

Like, they actually intend to let her live. That way it's down to simply keeping the Alien out of their hands, and it actually keeps the company from being "teh Evilz" instead they're more negligent and ignorant. Ripley could very easily wash her hands of the entire situation, walk away, just as Michael Bishop says, and with Newt still alive she has a strong reason not to kill herself... But she knows she's gotta do what's right for all of humanity.

This would have made for a better movie for sure.

Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 10, 2015, 03:28:23 PM
I would have still killed Hicks in Alien 3. At least, in a variation of the version of the film that we received.

I always thought that in the film that we have to work with, if I could somehow "magic" Hicks into the movie, i'd basically place his death where "Junior" died. Sacrificing himself about halfway through to contain the Alien in the trap. Up to that point it would have been Hicks defending Ripley from being raped, and constantly watching after Newt as the creepier inmates leered.

Newt would have survived instead of Morse.

Ripley's willingness to die would not come nearly so easy because Newt would still be around. Newt would even be a witness to Ripley's sacrifice.

The emphasis on self-sacrifice would be much greater amongst the prisoners. Instead of the "f**k it, let's go for it" that it's given in the film near the end, the more nasty among them getting slaughtered would force a much greater sense of repentance out of the rest. Building up to Ripley's ultimate sacrifice at the end. I would have also driven home Ripley's chance at salvation, by having the WY guys talk about the surgery amongst themselves.

Like, they actually intend to let her live. That way it's down to simply keeping the Alien out of their hands, and it actually keeps the company from being "teh Evilz" instead they're more negligent and ignorant. Ripley could very easily wash her hands of the entire situation, walk away, just as Michael Bishop says, and with Newt still alive she has a strong reason not to kill herself... But she knows she's gotta do what's right for all of humanity.

But you'd still set it up with the magical egg?

I actually prefer the chestbursting part. The absence felt odd. Would have been better if Ripley had been shown to be in the kind of agonised pain it would have produced, instead of just calmly cradling it against her, though.

One of many aspects which add to an arguably dream-like quality.

Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 10, 2015, 04:34:25 PM
But you'd still set it up with the magical egg?

Within the confines of what the setup of the scenario allows, i'd probably use the Gibson idea of the queen leaving some genetic material in Bishops entrails, or at the very least have shown the egg in a more logical location (within the dropships landing gear apparatus.)

The bit about W-Y being "teh evilz"... yeah, I totally get that. When I first saw Bishop II and those guys get off the ship with their capes and full face masks, all I could think of were Palpatine's guards from ROTJ. :laugh:

Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 10, 2015, 04:53:20 PM

Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 10, 2015, 04:34:25 PM
But you'd still set it up with the magical egg?

Within the confines of what the setup of the scenario allows, i'd probably use the Gibson idea of the queen leaving some genetic material in Bishops entrails, or at the very least have shown the egg in a more logical location (within the dropships landing gear apparatus.)

It's not hard to setup the sequel from the events of Aliens.

1 - Shot of a face-hugger crawling up the back of the Queen.
2 - Focus on the hugger as it crawls away into the Sulaco, out of focus battle between the Queen and Ripley in the background.

Sorted.

It would have to be a very crafty hugger but I could accept that more readily than Alien3's magical egg.

You could even have an adult or 2 sneak up with her, that disappear when Ripper is distracted.

Even then, that could easily be accomplished by showing the Queen lay it. And it being within the dropship.

However, that doesn't change that Ripley should/would of swept the dropship.

It really isn't that hard to follow on from Aliens, just needed proper editing.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 11, 2015, 11:11:16 AMIt really isn't that hard to follow on from Aliens, just needed proper editing.

Yeah, given this, I'm really surprised they went the route they did. There were far more logical ways of putting an Alien on board the Sulaco that still wouldn't have been especially hard to film.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 11, 2015, 11:11:16 AM
You could even have an adult or 2 sneak up with her, that disappear when Ripper is distracted.

Even then, that could easily be accomplished by showing the Queen lay it. And it being within the dropship.

Nope. When and how would she have grown an ovipositor?

Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 11, 2015, 01:52:15 PM
Nope. When and how would she have grown an ovipositor?

She wouldn't need to. That's just an assumption everyone makes. She could just as easily lay an egg still inside her abdomen mid flight. It would also explain the strange appearance of the egg we saw in Alien 3 if it was a pre-me egg.

If she was using an ovipositor initially, then yes, she does need one. Otherwise, why form it?

Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 11, 2015, 03:05:07 PM
If she was using an ovipositor initially, then yes, she does need one. Otherwise, why form it?

Not necessarily. If they are initially formed within her abdomen and then developed to completion inside of the ovipositor.  :)

Well, that's speculation on your part. I'm going with what we see in the film and tying it with what is known about real egg sacs.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 11, 2015, 11:16:23 AM

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 11, 2015, 11:11:16 AMIt really isn't that hard to follow on from Aliens, just needed proper editing.

Yeah, given this, I'm really surprised they went the route they did. There were far more logical ways of putting an Alien on board the Sulaco that still wouldn't have been especially hard to film.

Hell, there were far more logical reasons to have Aliens in the movie without putting them on the Sulaco at all. Why they insisted on setting it Directly after the second movie I'll never understand. Just writing in a brief time skip would solve a lot of issues.

Quote from: KiramidHead on Mar 11, 2015, 03:32:42 PMHell, there were far more logical reasons to have Aliens in the movie without putting them on the Sulaco at all. Why they insisted on setting it Directly after the second movie I'll never understand. Just writing in a brief time skip would solve a lot of issues.

It's strange, because most of the scripts written for Alien 3 contain completely illogical Aliens on the Sulaco right at the start, even the ones where the main story takes place at a later date. It's almost as if they were so determined to put them there, no one at any point during the five years the film was being developed said, "Hold on, this doesn't make sense..."

I think Renny Harlin's ideas probably would have avoided that notion entirely. It's a shame there are no released scripts based on his ideas (Alien homeworld, or Aliens on Earth.)

Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 11, 2015, 03:13:26 PM
Well, that's speculation on your part. I'm going with what we see in the film and tying it with what is known about real egg sacs.

Well, nyahpfffttrr!  :laugh:

So...what they just appear in the ovipositor? Is that how real egg sacs work? Genuinely asking here.

For what it's worth, I actually agree with the idea she can't lay eggs without the egg sac. The distended abdomen is the biological assembly line that puts the eggs together, so without out she's stumped. After all, termite queens can't produce any eggs without their egg sacs.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 11, 2015, 03:53:45 PM
So...what they just appear in the ovipositor? Is that how real egg sacs work? Genuinely asking here.

The egg is formed inside the host body, but is placed into position via the ovipositor.

Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 11, 2015, 05:56:52 PM
The egg is formed inside the host body, but is placed into position via the ovipositor.

Then there is no real reason that the queen could not do what I suggested? The egg just wouldn't be "placed" by the ovipositor.

If the organism uses one, then it requires it by default. An insect doesn't lay eggs without one if it's used all the time.

Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 11, 2015, 05:56:52 PMThe egg is formed inside the host body, but is placed into position via the ovipositor.

The egg clearly isn't formed inside the Queen's body because when Ripley blows open the ovipositor in Aliens partially-formed eggs can be seen spilling out.

Oh, is that what that was? OK, well there you go. She really does need it after all.

I presume that's what they were meant to be.

Egg aside, Alien 3 also has the unnecessarily confusing bit where Newt's cryotube is the one melted open... but it was Ripley who was facehugged... wut? And that's on top of the facehugger somehow hatching by itself and going looking for prey... which had never been the case previously.

I personally have no problem at all with the egg on Alien 3.

For me " and there is an egg" is enough explanation.

Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 11, 2015, 06:07:10 PM
If the organism uses one, then it requires it by default. An insect doesn't lay eggs without one if it's used all the time.

These things ain't ants.

You guys... You're just no fun at all.  :laugh:

Fine, a freakin' wizard put the egg there, alright? Are you happy now?

Quote from: KiramidHead on Mar 11, 2015, 06:21:15 PM
Egg aside, Alien 3 also has the unnecessarily confusing bit where Newt's cryotube is the one melted open... but it was Ripley who was facehugged... wut? And that's on top of the facehugger somehow hatching by itself and going looking for prey... which had never been the case previously.

It only gets further and further confusing, as I believe the idea was for the burster to evacuate from Newt when she was drowning and go into Ripley, but then there's also the cry monitor showing what appears to be an adult human head being face hugged. So....? Yeah, it's a confusing mess.

The Alien 3 novelization clears a few things up saying that Newt was the original target, but the facehugger got mortally wounded trying to lift open the chamber and somehow it got to Ripley's pod.  Another concept idea was that Newt was the one that was impregnated but upon her death the embryo inside her, realizing its host was dead, slid out of her mouth and into Ripley's.

Quote from: predxeno on Mar 11, 2015, 07:46:08 PMThe Alien 3 novelization clears a few things up saying that Newt was the original target, but the facehugger got mortally wounded trying to lift open the chamber and somehow it got to Ripley's pod.

The novel makes even less sense, because the one on the Sulaco dies before it can impregnate anyone.

I don't suppose it even matters anymore since A:CM nixed both explanations. :-\

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 11, 2015, 09:49:57 AM
It's not hard to setup the sequel from the events of Aliens.

1 - Shot of a face-hugger crawling up the back of the Queen.
2 - Focus on the hugger as it crawls away into the Sulaco, out of focus battle between the Queen and Ripley in the background.

Sorted.

A facehugger would have attacked Newt, if not Ripley. We know, from the med-lab sequence, that they are tenacious opportunists.

QuoteYou could even have an adult or 2 sneak up with her, that disappear when Ripper is distracted.

That's even worse! :) Adults have even more of a reason to defend the Queen - and would have had a much easier time of it against a relatively cumbersome powerloader.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 11, 2015, 06:15:13 PM
The egg clearly isn't formed inside the Queen's body because when Ripley blows open the ovipositor in Aliens partially-formed eggs can be seen spilling out.

Yep. That's what I've been saying for years. She wouldn't have the egg sack if it wasn't necessary. She's not exactly machine gunning the things out. They clearly need a long while to develop.

Which, by ironic coincidence, actually fits right in with Dallas and Brett and their excruciatingly long process of transformation.

Quote from: predxeno on Mar 11, 2015, 09:42:11 PM
I don't suppose it even matters anymore since A:CM nixed both explanations. :-\

What doesn't matters is A:CM.

Some people on the forum believe that this movie is going to be an interquel. I mean something could happen within a span of twelve days, if we happen to go by SM's timeline website. But there are some problems which I have with the interquel idea.. I mean sure it is a good way to explain how the egg got onto the Sulaco but how is Ripley and Hick's age to be explained? More so.. Wouldn't Hicks more or less be out of commission considering the injury which he had sustained?

I mean.. I don't know how long it takes to heal from an acid burn wound, especially one as severe as Hick's.. but I wouldn't expect him to be walking about in twelve days. And then one would ave to explain how Ripley suddenly gained back twenty something years of youth if this leads to the events of Alien 3.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 11, 2015, 09:56:20 PM

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 11, 2015, 09:49:57 AM
It's not hard to setup the sequel from the events of Aliens.

1 - Shot of a face-hugger crawling up the back of the Queen.
2 - Focus on the hugger as it crawls away into the Sulaco, out of focus battle between the Queen and Ripley in the background.

Sorted.

A facehugger would have attacked Newt, if not Ripley. We know, from the med-lab sequence, that they are tenacious opportunists.

QuoteYou could even have an adult or 2 sneak up with her, that disappear when Ripper is distracted.

That's even worse! :) Adults have even more of a reason to defend the Queen - and would have had a much easier time of it against a relatively cumbersome powerloader.

Not necessarily. We know from Aliens that the Queen cares about her progeny, rather than herself. We also know she can exhibit some sort of control over the adults. She could simply be thinking of the future of the hive and send them off for the future's safety rather than her own. All supposition, of course, but not unreasonable.

We also know they leapt to her defence in the nest and she had no trouble with it. :) She is their future.

Besides which, like I said... Newt. Totally unharmed.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 12, 2015, 01:08:01 PM
We also know they leapt to her defence in the nest and she had no trouble with it. :) She is their future.

After her kids were toast.

Quote
Besides which, like I said... Newt. Totally unharmed.

Not sure I can really argue against this one. Unless the Queen was telling it to keep away from the action, just in case. Because at the end of the day, even if it got Newt and then the Queen lost, I'd bet the Queen would be intelligent enough to know it wouldn't end well for her kids.

Again, supposition though.

All depends if the Hugger sees Newt.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 11, 2015, 09:56:20 PM

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 11, 2015, 09:49:57 AM
It's not hard to setup the sequel from the events of Aliens.

1 - Shot of a face-hugger crawling up the back of the Queen.
2 - Focus on the hugger as it crawls away into the Sulaco, out of focus battle between the Queen and Ripley in the background.

Sorted.

A facehugger would have attacked Newt, if not Ripley. We know, from the med-lab sequence, that they are tenacious opportunists.

Call me sick and twisted, but I'd like to see this. You can't get a better intro to a dark movie than that.

Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 13, 2015, 11:47:33 AM

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 11, 2015, 09:56:20 PM
A facehugger would have attacked Newt, if not Ripley. We know, from the med-lab sequence, that they are tenacious opportunists.

Call me sick and twisted, but I'd like to see this. You can't get a better intro to a dark movie than that.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.joshgulch.com%2Fmovies%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2Falien3%2Falien3ah.png&hash=d4369f7ecfeb7cc113682d236e91a080cb4da579)

Death by chestburster would be much more brutal.

That depends.

Clawing in panic at your glass prison as it fills with water with no help of escape would also be considered brutal.

Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 13, 2015, 05:46:14 PM
That depends.

Clawing in panic at your glass prison as it fills with water with no help of escape would also be considered brutal.

Yeah, Newt had an utterly nightmarish death, and it's probably the only reason why I would almost support a retcon:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette4.wikia.nocookie.net%2Falienfilmspedia%2Fimages%2Ff%2Ffb%2FNewtalien3death.jpg&hash=f028d6b66e3bf4d059c2d75a71eb817b83f848b3)

Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Mar 13, 2015, 06:19:05 PM
Yeah, Newt had an utterly nightmarish death, and it's probably the only reason why I would almost support a retcon:
http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/alienfilmspedia/images/f/fb/Newtalien3death.jpg

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F25.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_m1pdo2sB731r98lguo2_r1_500.gif&hash=28bf8177c5aafbd3f8f07a699ff400a518693def)

Killing her is one thing, but giving her that cruel of a death is just f**ked up.

Thats just how the universe rolls.

Aliens was clearly made for teens; while Alien 3 was made with adults in mind.  I'm always amazed by how many fans of the series cry like little girls over Newt's death.

Kids dying in any situation is horrific, you guys are sick and twisted. Which is why Alien3 took the easy way out and drowned the girl in her sleep. :P

Quote from: Feeds On Minds on Mar 13, 2015, 08:17:24 PM
Aliens was clearly made for teens; while Alien 3 was made with adults in mind.  I'm always amazed by how many fans of the series cry like little girls over Newt's death.

... hmm I saw alien3 as a teen and I liked it... I knew it. I was way more mature than the average teenager.  ;)

Quote from: whiterabbit on Mar 13, 2015, 08:36:29 PM
Kids dying in any situation is horrific, you guys are sick and twisted.

It is horrific. That is why Alien 3's opening is a defining moment in blockbuster history, they slap their audience across the face with the harsh reality of the alien universe. It hurts as its meant to. To be fair though Newt and Hicks are the only characters in the franchise (so far) to get a full on emotional funeral. No other character had that privilege.

Quote from: whiterabbit on Mar 13, 2015, 08:36:29 PM
Which is why Alien3 took the easy way out and drowned the girl in her sleep. :P

She was awake dude...

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette4.wikia.nocookie.net%2Falienfilmspedia%2Fimages%2Ff%2Ffb%2FNewtalien3death.jpg&hash=f028d6b66e3bf4d059c2d75a71eb817b83f848b3)

Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 13, 2015, 06:33:00 PM

Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Mar 13, 2015, 06:19:05 PM
Yeah, Newt had an utterly nightmarish death, and it's probably the only reason why I would almost support a retcon:
http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/alienfilmspedia/images/f/fb/Newtalien3death.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1pdo2sB731r98lguo2_r1_500.gif

I said almost.  I didn't say that I did.

Almost shows weakness.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi61.tinypic.com%2F2gvrfki.jpg&hash=0c5dda145d62798e2f02ba4429a118c99963cb37)

Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 13, 2015, 10:23:11 PM
It is horrific. That is why Alien 3's opening is a defining moment in blockbuster history, they slap their audience across the face with the harsh reality of the alien universe.

That was never the reason it was done. It was done becasue the scriptwriter couldn't be f**ked with the characters. That's it, and it's glaring for a massive portion of the audience. The sheer narrative laziness of the opening sequence. By all means kill them off as horribly as you like, but concocting magical eggs and shunting them off during the opening crawl in an effort to clear the deck for Weaver's star power doesn't make for a defining moment in blockbuster history, except maybe to its most ardent fans.

Infamous, maybe.

I'm not really talking about the motive behind the writing, more what the final product presents.

As mentioned their deaths were more poignant than most give it credit for. The funeral alone proves that.

Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 14, 2015, 02:27:15 PM
I'm not really talking about the motive behind the writing, more what the final product presents.

As mentioned their deaths were more poignant than most give it credit for. The funeral alone proves that.

Because many of us do in fact factor in creative intention into giving credit where it is due. Those characters weren't killed off to be be bold. They were killed off because they were in the way of what the powers that be wanted and that's all.


Does it work on that level too? Sure, I guess, for some people... But, it's not some master stroke of creative genius. In fact when you break it down and think about the general, overall, audience reaction of the time you have two camps outside of those who liked the movie at the time.

You have fans who loved Aliens and those characters, who are now being slapped in the face by this opening, and you have new audience members who have no freaking idea who those people are and it really doesn't mean anything to them. They have no idea what Ripley has gone through. So that's 2/3's of the audience right there that are effectively alienated, or at least put off by the opening and not in the "universe is so harsh" way. That's one smart element of Aliens. It gives you enough backstory early on so that you are not left off kilter when the new story really begins. It works as it's own movie. Alien 3, on the other hand, really needs Aliens for it's opening to actually carry it's full weight.

Quote from: Valaquen on Mar 14, 2015, 01:02:00 PMThat was never the reason it was done. It was done becasue the scriptwriter couldn't be f**ked with the characters.

Wanting to return to just Ripley on her own is very different from not be bothered about the characters.

Just because they killed them to develop Ripley's isolation doesn't mean they didn't care about them.

Quote from: Valaquen on Mar 14, 2015, 01:02:00 PM
It was done becasue the scriptwriter couldn't be f**ked with the characters.

"The" scriptwriter? Which one?

Hicks was already useless before the credits rolled on Aliens and any script which had Newt die used it as a major point. If they couldn't be f**ked they wouldn't have made such a big deal about her.

Quote from: Valaquen on Mar 14, 2015, 01:02:00 PM

Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 13, 2015, 10:23:11 PM
It is horrific. That is why Alien 3's opening is a defining moment in blockbuster history, they slap their audience across the face with the harsh reality of the alien universe.

That was never the reason it was done. It was done becasue the scriptwriter couldn't be f**ked with the characters. That's it, and it's glaring for a massive portion of the audience. The sheer narrative laziness of the opening sequence. By all means kill them off as horribly as you like, but concocting magical eggs and shunting them off during the opening crawl in an effort to clear the deck for Weaver's star power doesn't make for a defining moment in blockbuster history, except maybe to its most ardent fans.

Infamous, maybe.

This, exactly.

Quote from: predxeno on Mar 11, 2015, 07:46:08 PM
The Alien 3 novelization clears a few things up saying that Newt was the original target, but the facehugger got mortally wounded trying to lift open the chamber and somehow it got to Ripley's pod.  Another concept idea was that Newt was the one that was impregnated but upon her death the embryo inside her, realizing its host was dead, slid out of her mouth and into Ripley's.

That was in the comic as well, I absolutely hated that idea because it was utterly retarded. Aliens gestate within the empty space in the chest area, not the stomach, the size of the chestburster that crawled into Ripley's mouth just makes no sense at all, there is no entrance to the chest via esophagus, and even there was, the size of the chestburster means it would be fatal for the host. plus if a chestburster can climb in, they should be able climb out which means bursting out through the chest would be unnecessary and a waste of a recycleable host. I'm glad its not canon.

Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 14, 2015, 02:27:15 PM
I'm not really talking about the motive behind the writing, more what the final product presents.

As mentioned their deaths were more poignant than most give it credit for. The funeral alone proves that.

This, exactly.

Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 14, 2015, 07:58:35 PM
That's one smart element of Aliens. It gives you enough backstory early on so that you are not left off kilter when the new story really begins. It works as it's own movie. Alien 3, on the other hand, really needs Aliens for it's opening to actually carry it's full weight.

Alien 3 works on its own too.

All information is there, just as much as the information we're presented in Aliens to Alien.

I like Newt and Hicks characters but it would have been a disservice to the Alien as a character if they had lived. Heck it's the third film it was refreshing to see it shake everything up.

To boot it's the only Alien movie not to have Ripley blow a creature out into space. Change was sorely needed and I for one am glad it did.

Quote from: SiL on Mar 15, 2015, 06:01:38 AM

Quote from: Valaquen on Mar 14, 2015, 01:02:00 PM
It was done becasue the scriptwriter couldn't be f**ked with the characters.

"The" scriptwriter? Which one?

Hicks was already useless before the credits rolled on Aliens and any script which had Newt die used it as a major point. If they couldn't be f**ked they wouldn't have made such a big deal about her.

Exactly.

Alien 3 is a film I enjoy, I love it, it's beautiful but even in assembly cut, it isn't the best movie. It has very serious gaping flaws. The plot strings are coming from aspects of an idea that transformed, that don't make thematic sense, and seemingly come out of nowhere.

Ward/Fassano Sequence of Ripley's Character Development

Crash ---> Tragedy ---> Isolation --> Alienation ---> ---> Stowaway Alien Warrior carries Ripley's turmoil with her, killing more people ----> Banishment ---> Shaved Head in Humiliation ---> Comedy of Ripley to Monks, Mocking, Disgust ---> "Locked away" ---> Nightmares and "Morning Sickness" ---> Hallucination ----> Rediscovery ---> Trek ---> Headbursting Sequence in "Tech" Core ---> Ascending upwards in structure --->  Chaos ---> Reach EEV Either Exorcism of Demons both Personal and Literal by John who walks into fire, or suicide of Ripley who tells John to leave in EEV and she commits suicide by fire.

There's a very clear progression here. From the exploration of the satellite world, representing Ripley's journey into her own ego, from outside, penetrating in, getting locked within it, and confronting her own demons (dreams of the Alien raping her, unfolding a tongue of Newt's head, an infant with Alien characteristics floating in an all black environment (her "child" she's carrying) and other terrible hallucinations. As she rediscovers herself, she is rediscovered and chipped away as things get desperate up above. They go to the core of the satellite, getting chased by the Alien "Ripley's demon" as well as the core of Ripley herself, and the core, and lock themselves in, in the version we know of, its just windmills, its tranquil. But one of the characters (the reactionary cleric who became Andrews), skull bursts open carrying an Alien, and I'm sure going into the core of Ripley has relation to this, but whatever that is, what it means is even in Ripley's tranquil heart and the center of her ego, there is still an Alien waiting for her.

So her and John start ascending upwards, reach docks rowing in a boat, with the Alien unseen swimming below them. Blood drips from the wooden ceiling, and ash rains down, all is not well. They reach the surface, the Alien has begun making a nest, everything is on fire, it looks Bosch, and they confront the Alien and it's entombed in molten glass. Ripley reaches her EEV that was imprisoned in wood, and either John exercises her demons from the old grimores he read in the original idea and her demons jump into John who commits suicide by walking into the flames, or per Weaver's wishes, Ripley subverts John's studies and tells John to get in the EEV and go, allowing him to be free, and she walks into the fire, and is consumes in the raging inferno of her own world, her own ego, and finds closure.

It really all could be, that the entire thing was a hypersleep nightmare, in that case. It could be not literal, but a nightmare from her trauma foreshadowed in the beginning of Aliens, where Ripley battles inside of herself to find the closure she needs, which would explain the surreal nature of everything. It could just as well be real, but heavily figurative.

This was how this was to play out as originally written out. What happened with Alien 3 is they thought they could carry some of those ideas into a different setting not to "bizarre" and more "marketable", as well as being more accurate and faithful to the setting, but already with that you remove the whole element of Ripley's progress through the sphere being progress within herself. You could very well have made this prison colony a black metal orb, orbiting a hellish looking world, and removed the wood, but it was decided to lay it on a planet, removing that element entirely.

Then, you have the confused plot itself, desperately trying to recycle elements from Ward's script with either a hard time or little tono intention of stringing it together as he planned out, which in his version makes narrative sense, in all the drafts released, that I've read, it does not carry this.

It plays out more like a mystery. And then, the elements of Ripley's journey, in the Giler and Hill recycling, only comes in full swing in the third act, getting away with it from vague hints in the last two acts, and confused structure. This is just more evidence that they began filming before they even finished the script. There was potential there, but they lost it in rewrites.

David Giler/Walter Hill/Rex Pickett Sequence of Ripley's Character Development (Going by Assembly Cut)

Cryosleep Disaster ---> Crash ---> Discovery by Clemens ---> Rescue ---> Learning of Newt's Death, Hicks Death, Bishop Further Trashing ---> Numb Acceptance ---> Pod Burn Discovery ---> Newt Autopsy ---> Cremation/Ripley Acceptance/Dog/Bull Chestbursting ---> Prisoner Death ---> Ripley unwary ----> Sudden Clemens Romance ----> Another few prisoners die ----> Looking for Bishop ----> Almost Rape ---> In Infirmary, Conversation with Bishop, Dread of learning Alien onboard ---> Morse comes in, Ripley confirms "dragon" ---> Clemens Conversation/Clemens dies ---> Andrews dies ---> Planning lockdown of Alien ----> Fire disaster/ Alien locked down ---> Character development time, learning of company intentions ---> Morse kills, lets loose Alien ---> Argument, known doom, out of ideas ----> Ripley learns of chestburster ----> Ripley Aaron Company Convo 2 ---> Ripley confronts Alien, won't kill her ---> Dillon won't kill her ---> Planning furnace death ---> Maze sequence ---> Company Arrives ----> Dillon dies ---> Alien dies ---> Bishop 2 Conversation ----> Tragedy ---> Suicide

These are more plot events than character arcs. And this is the problem. There is hardly anything going on, other than Ripley being a static object outside of progressing plot events, naimly plans to kill the Alien, so she isn't just a static observer. But, there's hardly any development there. Dragon obviously means demon obviously means Ripley's demons, but this is hardly at all, even attempted at being fleshed out.

Fincher was trying to cover up the fact that it was clear the intended idea wasn't getting across well and everything was jumbled, in part, this was a brutal world. They explored more of the prisoners instead of Ripley, but the prisoners hardly had any characterization, and thankfully removed the bizarre idea of having a servant prisoner to the Alien, whether he being batshit or otherwise influenced by the beast. It was all development hell, and it shows. Fincher nailed down visually, what the Ward script was trying to convey. It is beautiful, tragic, fiery, gothic, hellish, and hopeless. The writing, unfortunately, does not convey its own themes and visuals well. They even had potential monks right there, and they still didn't take advantage of it and nail the Redemption arc they wanted well. It seems like they wanted it, but it hardly shows at all.

And this is probably why Fincher disowned it. He came in, wanting/expecting to do a sequel to Aliens, in the vain of Aliens. This is not what happened. He then came through, and offered advice on actors, his ideas were ignored. He then, did his best to follow the ideas central to what they wanted the film to be, the character arc they thought was beautiful etc. in the Ward drafts, but the writing couldn't carry that well enough. They decided to change to late, and nobody was looking over the writing except for Rex Pickett at one point (everyone hated his revised draft), and they ran out of time and had to keep shooting and writing shooting and writing. What you end up with, is a parody of the plot of the Ward/Fassano drafts, in a beautiful confused mess of a film.

I like Alien 3, but to be honest, it's such a visually arresting film that the visuals themselves can distract from the glaring carcass that was their original intentions.

Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 13, 2015, 05:46:14 PM
That depends.

Clawing in panic at your glass prison as it fills with water with no help of escape would also be considered brutal.

Well yes, but a chestburster is in line with the series.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 15, 2015, 05:43:10 PM
David Giler/Walter Hill/Rex Pickett Sequence of Ripley's Character Development (Going by Assembly Cut)

Cryosleep Disaster ---> Crash ---> Discovery by Clemens ---> Rescue ---> Learning of Newt's Death, Hicks Death, Bishop Further Trashing ---> Numb Acceptance ---> Pod Burn Discovery ---> Newt Autopsy ---> Cremation/Ripley Acceptance/Dog/Bull Chestbursting ---> Prisoner Death ---> Ripley unwary ----> Sudden Clemens Romance ----> Another few prisoners die ----> Looking for Bishop ----> Almost Rape ---> In Infirmary, Conversation with Bishop, Dread of learning Alien onboard ---> Morse comes in, Ripley confirms "dragon" ---> Clemens Conversation/Clemens dies ---> Andrews dies ---> Planning lockdown of Alien ----> Fire disaster/ Alien locked down ---> Character development time, learning of company intentions ---> Morse kills, lets loose Alien ---> Argument, known doom, out of ideas ----> Ripley learns of chestburster ----> Ripley Aaron Company Convo 2 ---> Ripley confronts Alien, won't kill her ---> Dillon won't kill her ---> Planning furnace death ---> Maze sequence ---> Company Arrives ----> Dillon dies ---> Alien dies ---> Bishop 2 Conversation ----> Tragedy ---> Suicide

You vaguely talk about her character development. You've mainly just listed things that happen in broad strokes. Something more like this would make more sense...

Crash land ---> Wake up and learns she's the only survivor ---> Immediate concern of how she ended up there, leaves infirmary to inspect EEV with Clemens, no fear of prisoners ---> Upset of the death of Newt ---> Fear that Newt may have been infected and twists her words to get what she wants from Clemens (autopsy) ---> After funeral she shaves her head, to establish herself amongst these sinners, "Well, I guess, I must make you nervous." ---> She then seeks solace with Clemens, no longer needing the man to make the first move (i.e Hicks) ---> Concern again for alien presence after Murphy's death ---> Goes on the investigation ---> Learns a lesson about wandering out alone (rape scene) (She does not hold it against the rapists seen when helps them during the fire) ---> Learns about the alien and wants rid of it once and for all ---> learns of their compromised situation (no weapons) gets angry and feels more sickness, retreats to infirmary to talk to Clemens ---> suddenly she's faced with the creature which removes her last personal connection to the world she once knew ---> faced with leading once again but this time the situation is different than before (obviously) ---> even when the prisoners are yelling in her face she stays strong ---> works with them to try and kill alien ---> Sickness gets worse and she discovers Queen embryo ---> She becomes desperate, "Tell them the whole place has gone toxic." ---> Hallucinates in the basement whilst looking for the alien, feeling like she is losing her mind ---> Asking Dillion to kill her, realising she cannot take the cowards way out ---> convinces the group of sinners to make a stand to save humanity (redemption) ---> saves humanity ---> faced with a choice to have everything she ever wanted at the expense of the company having the Queen ---> sacrifice to save everyone and end her pain.

In summery: She is not fighting to survive, or fighting to save her ideal life, she's fighting for what is right and knowing it'll come with a thankless victory.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 15, 2015, 05:43:10 PM
There is hardly anything going on, other than Ripley being a static object outside of progressing plot events, naimly plans to kill the Alien, so she isn't just a static observer. But, there's hardly any development there. Dragon obviously means demon obviously means Ripley's demons, but this is hardly at all, even attempted at being fleshed out.

Really? ::)

Ripley: You've been in my life so long, I can't remember anything else.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 15, 2015, 05:43:10 PM
and thankfully removed the bizarre idea of having a servant prisoner to the Alien, whether he being batshit or otherwise influenced by the beast.

Removed? Were you talking about the theatrical cut?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tumblr.com%2F3d68a91acb6fa0f5eee4c7a8555e4257%2Ftumblr_mhmc4onydU1r7wvzxo3_r1_400.gif&hash=de8d54a6eca0f1462582b4e027f367bed4e3d878)

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 15, 2015, 05:43:10 PM
They even had potential monks right there, and they still didn't take advantage of it and nail the Redemption arc they wanted well.

This was meant to be the final chapter in the Alien series. If you're going to have a story about redemption what better than to fill it with a group of sinners facing their judgment and deciding to become silent heroes. The route they took is far more engaging than if Ripley was surrounded by a group of people who are without sin. We practically had that with Alien & Aliens.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 15, 2015, 05:43:10 PM
And this is probably why Fincher disowned it. He came in, wanting/expecting to do a sequel to Aliens, in the vain of Aliens.

I'm sure he did not want to make Aliens 2.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 15, 2015, 05:43:10 PM
What you end up with, is a parody of the plot of the Ward/Fassano drafts, in a beautiful confused mess of a film.

Alien 3 is anything but a parody of Ward's script. A parody means its a comical retelling. Comical it is not.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 15, 2015, 05:43:10 PM
Fincher nailed down visually, what the Ward script was trying to convey. It is beautiful, tragic, fiery, gothic, hellish, and hopeless.

I agree.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 15, 2015, 05:43:10 PMAnd this is probably why Fincher disowned it. He came in, wanting/expecting to do a sequel to Aliens, in the vain of Aliens.

That's absolutely not what Fincher wanted to do. At all. He very explicitly stated he wanted to dial it back and go more in line with the first film than the second. He disowned the result because the studio screwed him so incessantly while he was trying to make it.

I do wish fanboys would stop projecting their lust for Aliens 2 onto people who absolutely didn't share that desire.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 16, 2015, 03:12:41 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 15, 2015, 05:43:10 PMAnd this is probably why Fincher disowned it. He came in, wanting/expecting to do a sequel to Aliens, in the vain of Aliens.

That's absolutely not what Fincher wanted to do. At all. He very explicitly stated he wanted to dial it back and go more in line with the first film than the second. He disowned the result because the studio screwed him so incessantly while he was trying to make it.

I do wish fanboys would stop projecting their lust for Aliens 2 onto people who absolutely didn't share that desire.

I have a very real memory of him signing on to do a sequel to Aliens, but ending up dialing it back once he was provided the material to work with, which was fine with him. I can't remember where, but I do clearly remember reading that. And I'm really neutral either way about this sequel, I'm not even sure I want it either.

Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 16, 2015, 03:05:21 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 15, 2015, 05:43:10 PM
David Giler/Walter Hill/Rex Pickett Sequence of Ripley's Character Development (Going by Assembly Cut)

Cryosleep Disaster ---> Crash ---> Discovery by Clemens ---> Rescue ---> Learning of Newt's Death, Hicks Death, Bishop Further Trashing ---> Numb Acceptance ---> Pod Burn Discovery ---> Newt Autopsy ---> Cremation/Ripley Acceptance/Dog/Bull Chestbursting ---> Prisoner Death ---> Ripley unwary ----> Sudden Clemens Romance ----> Another few prisoners die ----> Looking for Bishop ----> Almost Rape ---> In Infirmary, Conversation with Bishop, Dread of learning Alien onboard ---> Morse comes in, Ripley confirms "dragon" ---> Clemens Conversation/Clemens dies ---> Andrews dies ---> Planning lockdown of Alien ----> Fire disaster/ Alien locked down ---> Character development time, learning of company intentions ---> Morse kills, lets loose Alien ---> Argument, known doom, out of ideas ----> Ripley learns of chestburster ----> Ripley Aaron Company Convo 2 ---> Ripley confronts Alien, won't kill her ---> Dillon won't kill her ---> Planning furnace death ---> Maze sequence ---> Company Arrives ----> Dillon dies ---> Alien dies ---> Bishop 2 Conversation ----> Tragedy ---> Suicide

You vaguely talk about her character development. You've mainly just listed things that happen in broad strokes. Something more like this would make more sense...

Crash land ---> Wake up and learns she's the only survivor ---> Immediate concern of how she ended up there, leaves infirmary to inspect EEV with Clemens, no fear of prisoners ---> Upset of the death of Newt ---> Fear that Newt may have been infected and twists her words to get what she wants from Clemens (autopsy) ---> After funeral she shaves her head, to establish herself amongst these sinners, "Well, I guess, I must make you nervous." ---> She then seeks solace with Clemens, no longer needing the man to make the first move (i.e Hicks) ---> Concern again for alien presence after Murphy's death ---> Goes on the investigation ---> Learns a lesson about wandering out alone (rape scene) (She does not hold it against the rapists seen when helps them during the fire) ---> Learns about the alien and wants rid of it once and for all ---> learns of their compromised situation (no weapons) gets angry and feels more sickness, retreats to infirmary to talk to Clemens ---> suddenly she's faced with the creature which removes her last personal connection to the world she once knew ---> faced with leading once again but this time the situation is different than before (obviously) ---> even when the prisoners are yelling in her face she stays strong ---> works with them to try and kill alien ---> Sickness gets worse and she discovers Queen embryo ---> She becomes desperate, "Tell them the whole place has gone toxic." ---> Hallucinates in the basement whilst looking for the alien, feeling like she is losing her mind ---> Asking Dillion to kill her, realising she cannot take the cowards way out ---> convinces the group of sinners to make a stand to save humanity (redemption) ---> saves humanity ---> faced with a choice to have everything she ever wanted at the expense of the company having the Queen ---> sacrifice to save everyone and end her pain.

In summery: She is not fighting to survive, or fighting to save her ideal life, she's fighting for what is right and knowing it'll come with a thankless victory.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 15, 2015, 05:43:10 PM
There is hardly anything going on, other than Ripley being a static object outside of progressing plot events, naimly plans to kill the Alien, so she isn't just a static observer. But, there's hardly any development there. Dragon obviously means demon obviously means Ripley's demons, but this is hardly at all, even attempted at being fleshed out.

Really? ::)

Ripley: You've been in my life so long, I can't remember anything else.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 15, 2015, 05:43:10 PM
and thankfully removed the bizarre idea of having a servant prisoner to the Alien, whether he being batshit or otherwise influenced by the beast.

Removed? Were you talking about the theatrical cut?
http://media.tumblr.com/3d68a91acb6fa0f5eee4c7a8555e4257/tumblr_mhmc4onydU1r7wvzxo3_r1_400.gif

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 15, 2015, 05:43:10 PM
They even had potential monks right there, and they still didn't take advantage of it and nail the Redemption arc they wanted well.

This was meant to be the final chapter in the Alien series. If you're going to have a story about redemption what better than to fill it with a group of sinners facing their judgment and deciding to become silent heroes. The route they took is far more engaging than if Ripley was surrounded by a group of people who are without sin. We practically had that with Alien & Aliens.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 15, 2015, 05:43:10 PM
And this is probably why Fincher disowned it. He came in, wanting/expecting to do a sequel to Aliens, in the vain of Aliens.

I'm sure he did not want to make Aliens 2.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 15, 2015, 05:43:10 PM
What you end up with, is a parody of the plot of the Ward/Fassano drafts, in a beautiful confused mess of a film.

Alien 3 is anything but a parody of Ward's script. A parody means its a comical retelling. Comical it is not.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 15, 2015, 05:43:10 PM
Fincher nailed down visually, what the Ward script was trying to convey. It is beautiful, tragic, fiery, gothic, hellish, and hopeless.

I agree.

1. I talked about her character development in broad strokes because her character development was in broad strokes. The writers agree. You can write it better than I did, sure, I give you that. But it's still jarring shifts in character motivation. Fighting to save everything is one of the only pieces of hot glue holding her character together at that point.
2. Yes.
3. Even in the Assembly cut they hardly fleshed out the idea of Morse being a "servant" of the Alien. They cut most material out of that plot line. For example, in the Rex Pickett rewrite, Morse gets cocooned, and does much more. But even then it's hardly much. They came in very cautiously about the idea, like someone wanted it, but it was too silly to put on paper that well.
4. I very much agree it was meant to be the final chapter, and I agree, it's a beautiful final chapter and a film I still enjoy. But to totally ignore the faults of the film is something I cannot do, it had all the material from Ward laid out right in front of everyone, and they came out with a really half assed version of what character arc she went through there, thinking they could just copy plot elements and glue it together and achieve the same result; when the material they cut and pasted was thought out, thoroughly, from progression of setting, to the entire setting, to, well, basically everything. Was a wooden planet too much? Yes. But the idea was still there, and they really could not write around what they were trying to do well enough, because they were rushed because of production time.
5. He didn't, I know.
6. David Giler and Walter Hill did really make a comical re-telling of Ward's script on paper.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 16, 2015, 07:14:53 PM
But it's still jarring shifts in character motivation.

What jarring shifts?

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 16, 2015, 07:14:53 PM
3. Even in the Assembly cut they hardly fleshed out the idea of Morse being a "servant" of the Alien.

Golic not Morse.

They fleshed it out well. He's an unstable character who sees the alien kill two people right in front of him. He's terrified at first, then accepting of his impending doom "You're gonna die too." Then when he sees it kill Clemens sparing him again he seems to think he has a connection to it. He thinks he's a servant to it "Tell me what to do next." but obviously gets himself killed in the process.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 16, 2015, 07:14:53 PM
But to totally ignore the faults of the film is something I cannot do, it had all the material from Ward laid out right in front of everyone, and they came out with a really half assed version of what character arc she went through there

You summed up her character Arc from Ward's script as: She crash lands, gets humiliated, isolated, delusional, rediscovers herself and finally a heroes sacrifice. There's not much difference in the final product of Alien 3.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 16, 2015, 07:14:53 PM
6. David Giler and Walter Hill did really make a comical re-telling of Ward's script on paper.

Would you file the film under comedy? :laugh:

Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 16, 2015, 08:33:25 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 16, 2015, 07:14:53 PM
But it's still jarring shifts in character motivation.

What jarring shifts?

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 16, 2015, 07:14:53 PM
3. Even in the Assembly cut they hardly fleshed out the idea of Morse being a "servant" of the Alien.

Golic not Morse.

They fleshed it out well. He's an unstable character who sees the alien kill two people right in front of him. He's terrified at first, then accepting of his impending doom "You're gonna die too." Then when he sees it kill Clemens sparing him again he seems to think he has a connection to it. He thinks he's a servant to it "Tell me what to do next." but obviously gets himself killed in the process.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 16, 2015, 07:14:53 PM
But to totally ignore the faults of the film is something I cannot do, it had all the material from Ward laid out right in front of everyone, and they came out with a really half assed version of what character arc she went through there

You summed up her character Arc from Ward's script as: She crash lands, gets humiliated, isolated, delusional, rediscovers herself and finally a heroes sacrifice. There's not much difference in the final product of Alien 3.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 16, 2015, 07:14:53 PM
6. David Giler and Walter Hill did really make a comical re-telling of Ward's script on paper.

Would you file the film under comedy? :laugh:

The jarring shifts I'm referring to, is the not straight path should lead up to self sacrifice, but rather events that twist and turn the narrative to get to that point, with simple logic. For example, Ward's draft has significant backup of its desicions, everyone thinks the creature is a demon, Ripley has Demons, Ripley goes into the depths of the sphere (Her representative ego) and in there, has the confrontation between Maiden and Dragon, hallucinations which haunt her, she is confronting herself. There's nothing about confronting herself present, she is a single minded character, or build up to that with no conflict of killing herself aside from a few shots of her having second thoughts but knowing it has to be done. This isn't even a closure for her character as you're making it out, and I suppose you could always say it's just a brutal world, I get that. But what they wanted to do was give a tragic closure trope, and it didn't work because they were filming as the script was being rewritten and everything was rushed.

I'm going to tell you, what it got wrong. A while ago I read a copy of Ward's script that's a bit different than the commonly available one, I bought it on some forum that deals in those sorts of things. I have it in pdf somewhere, if I find it I'll upload it somewhere.  But it was much, more interesting, than the released one. The dog was missing, as well. There was no real pocket of air, outside, aside from the top reservoir. In this version, it's described as a solid column of atmosphere going out on top of it "like a spot light". Bu John looks out through giant plastic "airplane" windows, that are used to reflect light, and calculate the passing of stars. He sees the EEV in the beginning, from a classical telescope. The Alien also does not have the camouflage ability it has in the first draft. Aside from minor differences, that's it.

It all has to do with the Id, the Ego and the Super Ego. The Id, latin for It (this should sound meaninful in relation to the Alien. It.) It's the  part of you that carries on from birth, the cry for oxygen, the desire for food, the need to survive, the unconscious drives you have no choice in, just thoughts of survival, what you need, the small action that suggests maybe a sexual encounter with someone would be nice without considering their feelings about it, but only your own. Eating a steak is easier when you don't think about the cow, everyone, according to these older ideas, has an Id.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/a5/fe/35/a5fe35d29588077f328cf8dc2cc315be.jpg)

The Ego is the middle man, sating the Id, but coming up with ways of doing it that don't have consequences, or balance out the consequences for yourself. Sometimes, this gets out of control, your Id overpowers, and sometimes you think taking risks for gratification and relief become increasingly worth it. The ego is that part of the id which has been modified by the direct influence of the external world. ... The ego represents what may be called reason and common sense, in contrast to the id, which contains the passions in its relation to the id it is like a man on horseback, who has to hold in check the superior strength of the horse; with this difference, that the rider tries to do so with his own strength, while the ego uses borrowed forces. It serves three severe masters, the external world, the super-ego and the id. It can be pushed and pulled towards either depending on circumstances and that which you become from growth.

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The Super-Ego, reflects the internalization of cultural rules, mainly taught by parents applying their guidance and influence. The installation of the super-ego can be described as a successful instance of identification with the parental agency.The super-ego retains the character of the father, while the more powerful the Oedipus complex was and the more rapidly it succumbed to repression (under the influence of authority, religious teaching, schooling and reading), the stricter will be the domination of the super-ego over the ego later on—in the form of conscience or perhaps of an unconscious sense of guilt.

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Now, this idea of the personality is hopelessly outdated, your psychology relies much more on your physical health than a battle of thunder going on inside your unconscious mind. But in narratives, it is an incredibly useful tool, to describe the journey a character goes through. And, Alien is dripping with Freud to begin with. It's all Freudian. So, ending it in an all out Freud clash of personalities is actually a really neat idea.

The entirety of the Ward script builds up to either version of her suicide or the exorcism of her "demons, the chest burster inside of her is representative of the Id inside of her, this powerful Id that must destroy the Alien at all costs, running totally on instinct, much like the Alien. The Alien, and Ripley, in this sense, are similar, both single minded in their past hatred and desire to kill, and its hardly changed. One has to confront that, and reach a balance between Id and Super-Ego within the Ego itself. Ripley believes she is the Super-Ego to the Aliens Id, but it is not the case, the Alien was always an Id, a reptilian, a cold killer, a snake, a devil. It's been making Ripley the same, and Ripley has to confront how much death has surrounded her. It is either she achieves balance, that she lets loose her Id (Inhumanity) and ascends to Super-Ego, or her Id, symbolically bursts forth from her, and lays the eggs of a million Ids. The monks could be literally interpreted as, people who embraced the path of the Super-Ego, and Ripley just got damn lucky and landed on a place that could advance who she was in a traumatic event to balance the trauma inside her, but I tend to think of Ward's aborted recycled film, as more figurative. Regardless, Alien 3, as it is written, was meant to be primiarily focused on the idea continuing the Freudian themes, into a battle within the self to find inner-peace. Regardless of what you think of Ward's idea, that was the focus, it is clear as day and would have been clear, and they recycled elements, into a, in my opinion good Assembly Cut, but even then, and in Theatrical Release, it did not focus on finally allowing Ripley rest in peace.

So it all goes a bit like this. She is floating in nothingness, in her personality, herself, and literally floating in the void of space. She has survived on hard reliance on Id for the past three years, and it's all unbalanced, she has to change within herself, or she will cease to be the Ripley she knew. But first she must rest, she is exhausted, and must recover. But once she recovers, she will face the Alien again, within, and without.

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Her journey within begins when she is ejected from the safe-space of the Sulaco, and everything she accomplished is ripped from her, impacting the outside of her ego, she's a chaotic force of Id after Alien, wanting to survive. And so, nothing but her survives, Ripley and Hicks have left her in, what you could interpret, as Her-Self ejecting her to a mission, a final mission, to balance herself, and reach inner peace. She impacts onto a place she doesn't know, a foriegn world, and the escape pod is flooded with water, and buckles under pressure (much like what we got), and a rescue team arrives to bring her in. The child and the soldier are dead. She is in shock, cannot speak, she's been ripped from her bed and thrown into this, you could say, Third Film, and she's instantly rejecting it in spasms. She is rescued by the monk who saw the shooting star of her craft. As she reaches the surface, monks carry her to safety. Lifted from the wreckage, she is in immense shock. This image is lifted Straight from a Goya piece called They Carried Her Off.

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Her form as it is in the story is representative self-image, believing herself to be innocent, that none of this makes any sense when she knows throughout the journey it does make sense. She is just trying to survive, what did she do to deserve this? This, is the same personality of the Alien. The Alien doesn't think, it's Id, it's chaotic lust for sex and survival. Ripley is in a state of shock, of Id, losing herself to only the will to survive, nothing else, she has to live. In her mind, her trauma, has reduced herself to"I must live I must be back to normal I must live I must live I cannot die I must live"

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The world, is the experiences of her personality before she came in contact with the Alien, it is the Ego she left when she "clicked" off at the end of Alien and further "click click click click click click clicked" off at the end of Aliens. She is far gone, you could imagine her heart will palpitate for the rest of her life. This Old World is drenched in Super-Ego, tradition, the feeling of praying before Christmas dinner, telling your daughter not to play with matches, going to church on a bright Sunday morning, it is the cold rhetoric she came in with Alien not letting Kane on the ship, it is the rule, the father, the parent, the belief of doing the right thing, both taught behavior and response to abuse. It is a reactionary world of tradition if gone unchallenged, if the Super-Ego is uncontrolled, left to grow while you are in a state of shall we say, Id Auto-Pilot, and it takes over your ego to balance out the imposing Id, you will get a reactionary, a hater of everything you fear that your parent's have told you to fear, but most of all, lack of control, and the pain of panic. You hate it, you hate the Id. So, the monks.

(https://alienseries.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/561897_472604092779372_772385477_n.jpg)
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She is met with confusion, people don't understand her because she's full of energy, technology, the inability to survive outside of her technology makes her desperate. She is brought to the Abbot, the far Super-Ego. She tries to explain herself, what happened, who she is, what's at risk, and it's all Greek to him, and really Them all they see is an Id Woman barking about, somewhat confirming what they feared that she brings nothing but trouble. So, she's being met with angry zealots who represent her unconscious super-ego. She does her best to adapt, but this can't last, she has to make a change, make it work, make it make sense. She is troubled. She talks, with someone she learns is a synthetic, taking her to her craft. She is taken to the EEV, as she learns about the death of her surrogate daughter, and Hicks, she lost them to Id. She's in turmoil, and grief, and she sees burn or slime, or some small indicator of presence, but she can't see it again. Now she is in panic. It's happening again, not again, she has to warn someone, she is back in the survival mode of Id. In order to fix, this, she does not know, she has to confront both the Id and Super-Ego within her, in this neglected wooden marble.

(https://alienseries.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/0218lw.jpg)
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So, of course, the Id arrives, a stowaway Alien on board the Sulaco the whole time, with two facehuggers. It's here. It is the representative darkness of Ripley's troubled unbalanced self. Livestock have begun going missing. A farmer, his friends, enters his shed, and an innocent sheep gives birth to a lamb, not an innocent lamb, no lamb of God. It is, a chestburster. A facehugger must have crawled out and implanted the lamb. They panic and gore the fetal thing with a pitchfork, (if I remember correctly) the acid results in a small fire, and it all goes to hell, but they put it out. But someone, is responsible for killing these animals.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/alien3/conceptart/vincentward20.jpg)

The demon of memories she's carried with her into her Ego, is here, it's Id. It does not think, it operates on only a Kafka level of the primitive insect reptile frog, the spider, the primitive arthropod. Her will to survive comes from the same place as the will for sex, the will to eat, sleep, drink, you cannot travel through life without experiencing this, you cannot go in a survival situation, life or death, without letting your Id take control, this is Ripley from Alien to Aliens, especially Aliens. So, this representative Id, that has only grown in power, and ability to manipulate her, is obsessed with survival. Her remnant Super-Ego, Id, Ego, her disconnected sense of self, all in a powerless state of submission to Id.

(https://alienseries.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/tumblr_l61cr0gvyq1qa1o5zo1_500-11.jpg)

The Monks, the representative Super-Ego Abbot, put her on a bizarre trial, she is judged, declared guilty and mocked, within this remnant ego, the Super-Ego (Monks) is just as Alien to the Id (Ripley, The Alien) as vice versa, laughable, horrifying, and other. Her hair is shaved in humiliation, and she is judged into the pitch black depths of her left Ego. Her EEV is burried under a mass of boards of wood.

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This was a mistake. A critical error. They first another of its avatars, an innocent lamb. The Id, defends its own. Ripley is carrying its son, daughter, child, mother. Ripley, is a citizen of the state of Id, just like the beast. And as Ripley-Id had been judged by the Super-Ego, the manifestation of Id judges the Super-Ego. And it begins killing. Yanking men and their entrails into the floorboards, climbing down pillars and blocks and yanking up scared men, impaled by its tail. As the Super-Ego had begun the battle by making the first move on Id, it pays the most price. The demon they feared and have long dreaded, is here. An Id. Just like the world of Id they left, a world of only meaningless Id, filled with the hustle and bustle of men in suits, corporations with immunity, sex, disrespect, hatefulness, war, and lack of traditional values. They thanked God, and prayed to him for giving them safety, and keeping them away from the feeling of dominating Id. The Id is here. The Id has lived since life arose, it is the mind that only requires survival of itself, it has never been stopped, it cannot be stopped, and their arrogance has cost them. The Id has and they're already dead.

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As the Super-Ego is diving into chaos of missing people and bodies and panic; the two friends she has, the riend inside the super-ego, the super-ego counter balance to the panic and xenophobia of Id, characters existing to balance the Super-Ego world, John the librarian, and a Synthetic, who believe they can help her, exorcise the Id from her, and this leftover Ego, and take out her confusion and anger and grief. They travel to the library. In all the long forgotten works of history the world forgot, came a truth they needed. History called the Id, original sin, the devil, the demon, a dragon, and a seductive prince, and all its associates. In a bleak world of moral blackness, the old ways, more naive, plainly point out, what Demons are in real life, avatars of what we see in ourselves, the Id. The Alien

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Locked down inside the pitch black, wooden, but warped, ego. Ripley is terrified. In here, she has to battle herself and find out where she stands. She sees visions, the Alien doing its way with her, her impregnation, her child. Newt's head floating helplessly in the mouth of her tormenter. Dreams of demons, of monsters, the creature with the body of animals and screams. Dreams of the dead, Pavor Nocturnus visions, gnashing of teeth, the maw of the beast. She is a lost person. She is bitter, she lives on adrenaline, and she wants to be back to herself, and live in a world, and not be full of grief. She is the Ego just like this wooden world is, she is the disconnected Ego that left at the end of Alien, the trauma caused her to resort to her instincts, and play loose. The world, is the wooden world of herself she left behind she needs to return to, to balance. But she can't accept the Super-Ego either, its wrong, its not right, it's too powerful and zealous and ignorant. It requires balance, but her mind only can think of it from the perspective of Id, of survival, her desperation, grows, and so does the Id. She is beginning to lose herself, and her hope, driving her into an empty state of ego, and her inner response to that, is to counter with Id, along the lines of, you can't give up, you can't give up, you can't give up. There is nothing but unbalanced Id.

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It takes a dark turn when she throws up, and is taken by the fact she is pregnant with overwhelming Id, she is losing herself to that world. Thoughts include "How am I so different from this Alien anymore". Everything she associates with infants, childbirth, is from the Super-Ego, but she can't relate. Id, cost her the life of her daughter she never came home to see,but the Super-Ego is still being rejected by her.

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She is rescued, by John and the Synthetic. They rip the wood encrusting, the nailed panks apart, light comes in, and Ripley is in a state of emptiness. They update her on the situation, she doesn't see the point, she is unwilling. She She's convinced, and reluctantly joins them. They begin the task of crawling downwards, under the impression that they can stop the beast, in the "technology core", an area that is said might carry equipment to kill the beast, but no one has ventured in since the stations opening long ago. She does not let them know, that she realizes she's carrying the infant inside her.

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Now back to the habitation layer, the home, all hell is breaking loose. Fires are running rampant, and men are running and hiding in terror. Teams form to flush out and gore the beast.  They believe they have it cornered it in the wheat fields.They travel in, and loose a good vantage point; they lose the ability to see one another, the wheat is too tall. Nervous, they move on farther within. Looking from above, the isolated group moves in, the wheat moving around them as they cautiously walk further, and the Alien, from the side, moving towards them. It takes them, yanking them down and killing one, two, three. They realize, panic and run, but its far too late, and they are pulled under one by one. Until it reaches the last man, who sees its hissing dripping jaws, its hands clasping around his skull, and then, nothing. Death.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/alien3/conceptart/vincentward26.jpg)

They come across the Abbot, panicked, climbing down as well. He is convinced to join them. The Super-Ego begins to work together to find a solution to the Id, even Ripley, a state of Id previously, has went through herself, and she does not care for her life any more. She came out, of the imprisonment deep inside her figurative ego, so grief stricken, she does not care, the self is no longer fueled by desire of survival, of Id, but finding peace.  The torment of the beast drove the self into a neutral state of ego, her personality free to be influenced, at the hands of either Id or Super-Ego, and come to balance. The core, is the figurative core of her ego, once they reach this Ego-Core, might find an answer. From here on, is the conclusion.

They venture forth, and realize they are being stalked by the Alien. Of Id, trying to stop them, from reaching the core, of potentially solving the crisis representative of the struggle in Ripley. But they don't know where it is. They panic, running down halls and climbing down ladders, they run down a hallway but Ripley falls to the floor unconscious. Her eyes lazily open in the EEV, Klaxons blare, and she rushes for Newt's tube. She stops for a moment. The Alien suddenly screams, grabbing her. And spins her around.

"
    The Alien spins her – pushes her over across the sleep tube –
    Like it's taking her from behind!
    Ripley looks down into the sleep tube:
    Newt is gone.
    Her doll's head lays in a pool of blood.
    The Alien wraps his arms around Ripley.
    Thin lips pull back
    She SCREAMS."
"
She wakes up to a desperate group trying to wake her up. She recovers, knowing the urgency and they continue running to the core. They hurry finally, down into the corridor into the core. The android is first to fall into the trap, there are bear traps hidden throughout the corridor, and one snaps around his ankle, milky fluid drips down. There is little visible light, they are running out of flares/candles to light their way, they hardly light their path. They cautiously enter, trying caution, while the android attempts to free himself. They hear a hiss, and realize the Alien is right behind them, waiting on a ledge. Figuratively, the bare traps to prevent anyone from accessing the forbidden tech, and the Alien just waiting there itself, are all parts of Ripley. The bare trap, protection of the inner workings of the self, and the Alien, Id, waiting there to stop what they're trying to accomplish, to stop Ripley from her journey of finding herself. They hurry, and manage to get to the end, the android limping loose. They, approach the metal bulkhead, and discover in horror there's no way in. There's no access panel or any unlocking mechanism to let them in. The Alien walks towards them imposing, and is locked down by a bear trap. It howls, and acid spills out in pools, igniting the wood, and desperatly tries to free itself. The small fire gives enough light, and they begin desperately clawing at the wood surrounding the metal to find a way inside. The Alien screams and is getting loose, claws waving in fury. Desperate fingers cut themselves in splintering wood and jagged metal. The Alien melts the bear trap and frees itself, hissing and walking towards them. Hands claw at the wood. Acid drips to the floor from the beast's wound, igniting patches around itself. Hands, filled with dread and Id, claw furiously. The fire begins to ignite the wood, and smoke and soot fill the air, the Alien is close behind them and behind the Alien are flames. The Alien limps forward. Furious hands on wood. It limps, limps again, and a bear trap catches its ankle, it screams in agony, more acid bubbles out, and quickly makes work of the metal around it. They find a keycode and desperately mash any combination they can think of.  The Alien is nearly on them, limping, infuriated, the Abbot pushes them away, enters a keycode, and the door slides open, blinding light fills the chamber and they all rush in. The Alien reaches out its skeletal arms and grabs the synthetic, Anthony, and begins to open him up from the back and claw him from inside, they enter a tug of war with Anthony, and pull the synethic free, falling on top of one another in the blinding light, The Alien reaches out for them screaming, and the door locks down on it. It screams and clangs on the sliding bulkhead in desperation. They're in.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thescifishow.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F10%2Fworrall-alien-ripley1.jpg&hash=2963c25ef88ebd3a6f3af809728c4efeae33b224)

What they see, is soul crushing. There is no technology inside. It's a safe metal orb, locked down in the center of the station, lit. But the metal is covered in wood. And there is nothing that can help them. There are just windmills. Figuratively, at the core of Ripley is still the tradition and protocol of the Super-Ego, shown in the first film. It is tranquil, but it is her. The Self. It could imply, that they really do get what they need, and its Ripley begining to make sense of her turmoil. Everyone feels defeated, John realizes the abbot knew the whole time. They get in an argument, but realize there's not a point, they're doomed. They converse, mostly, Ripley reflects on her life. The conversation leads to wondering where the Alien came from. They touch upon the idea that it was a weapon of some kind, created by a world long forgotten. What is interesting, is since this story treats the Alien as an out of control insidious Freudian Id, they would bring this up, because there's another monster like that born from Ancient Civilization in a classic science fiction film, Forbidden Planet. The Abbot admits he knew, that the technology was initially deployed to make the station habitable, and the rest of the systems that maintain the massive Oxygen flow, are horizons of windmills (Ripley's self-sustaining personality).

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvincentwardfilms.com%2Fcms%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F09%2Fwindmills.jpg&hash=22c05e3c7718a97e185ef3e421720cc71e96de4f)

They argue again, and the Abbot shakes in seizure, and blurts out half words and nonsensical sounds, and his head violently caves in, and blood pools out, met with tiny hands grasping brain and skull, and the cries of a pupal Alien. It uncoils itself from around his now violently mushy brain matter and sinus cavity (Embryo must have been ejected from his stomach, out his throat, into his sinus cavity), and tries to escape. Ripley grabs the Abbot's staff and and beats it to death, and whacks the corpse away from them.  Ripley becomes anxious, believing that the Alien influenced the Abbot to find them, and that it now knows what they plan.

This is already really long, so I'll wrap it up. Anthony convinces them to leave him, as he can hardly move and he'd be a burden, he tells them he'll be fine.They find a way out, reaching a canal, to coracle boat, on a dock and row down as blood drips from the smoldering ceiling. Ripley reflects on her life, her daughter. Unseen, the Alien swims, stalking them underwater. They reach the surface, and an uncontrolled inferno is roaring. There are body parts, limbs, torsos, everywhere. The Alien had begun to create a nest, and people are cocooned on the walls, in egg-morphing. The once painted blue ceiling is now covered in cocconed victims and waffle-pattern nesting material, and chewed wood spat out in a pattern. They rush to the library to recover what books they can, Ripley grasping her sides along the way. Ripley's entire world is in shambles.

As they reach the library, they gather the books, and in the background, the Alien walks in, unnoticed to the characters but not the audience. As it limps towards them, Ripley sees it first and yelps in surprise. It is carrying someone's head, half eaten, its claws firmly, not holding it, but driven inside it, holding it from inside. It shakes the half eaten, puppet skull wildly, as to taunt them. It rears its head back and cackles in a way that sounds like choking, but is unmistakably laughter. It begins walking towards them. It brings its head towards the skull, its tongue taking a chunk out of the skull, eating it, and it throws the skull towards them. They move back, cornered. The wood beneath them creaks. The Alien leaves a trail of flames from its ankle wound when it walks. The floor begins to bend along the flames beneath it. The Alien continues. Ripley is knocked out of breath in horror as she shrinks away from the pulpy skull thrown at her. The Alien continues. Ripley grasps her stomach in pain. The Alien continues, Ripley finally can find air through her empty gasps and inhales a huge breath of air. John looks at her. She exhales. The Alien is described as sounding out the words "The Whore" in a crossed between whistling, hissing, whispering, and sighing, as if from an old man. Ripley begins to shout, and shout, and shout, and taunt the Alien, it becomes agitated and limps quicker towards them, and the floor gives way in a hurricane of books and beams and shelves, they scream as they fall a floor down, into the glass works. They're fine. The Alien is not. It lands right into a vat of molten glass. It bursts out and hot glass splash around it, it screams in desperation and pain and tries pulling itself out, it begins to melt. It gets slower, and slower, and slower, until it finally pulls itself out, and falls down, it shatters itself, and its glass fragments reflect in the light. Ripley's rampant demon, the central Id, renders itself as fragile as glass in the confrontation, Ripley confronts her fear, and it metaphorically turned weak with bones of glass.

They reach the EEV, and Ripley doubles over in pain. There are two endings to this. But the first draft, that involved the exorcism, is not from the one I read (3rd Draft). Ripley says she's fine, and they both walk into the EEV. Ripley is preparing the EEV, finishes, and runs out, and locks the doors. It seems as if she is happy, in a state of peace. Ripley is in the pangs of birth, but endures them with a smile. John demands Ripley tell what she's doing. She tells John he's sorry, but that she has to end this. In an almost Terminator 2 ending, before Terminator 2, the way its dealt with is shockingly similar. "No don't go you don't have to do this!" "I'm sorry but this is the only way, I have to end it." "No please don't go!" "I'm sorry". Ripley tells John to get out in the EEV, let people know what happened, and that she has to "Confront her fears". She looks at the raging inferno, closes her eyes, spreads her arms apart, breathes in, and out. She walks into the flames, and her body goes from figure, slowly dissolving into nothing but orange as she walks into it. There aren't any screams, and its described that she is "almost embracing the fire". John looks at the display and closes his eyes, but is suddenly jolted as the EEV shakes free from the chains holding it, its exhaust feeds the flames around it, and John sees nothing but flames out the cockpit window, he holds on as alarms go off, the EEV continues to shake, and John holds on as it throws him back, and rockets through the crumbling ceiling. The cockpit window shows it going through multiple decks of wood by its firing blue engines burning the wood through. It bursts through a layer of metal, and flames escape the cockpit window from the wooden world, and from the cockpit now, is just the endless expanse of space. It shows the EEV rocketing away from the burning world.

(https://alienseries.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/alien-3-sulaco-escape-pod-concept-art-1.jpg)

John sighs, and realizes that he can now walk comfortably and doesn't have to grip the railing for dear life. He, looks around, enters the cockpit, and sits down in a chair. He looks in awe, at the instruments of technology around him, and the vast emptiness of space. John tears up, and begins to laugh in disbelief at what just happened the past day and a half. But as his eyes water up, he just looks into space with the awe of a child. We are given "Several minutes of the tableau of twinkling stars" and the script ends in "The End"



Now these are briefly touched upon in Alien 3, but this is just not the same kind of detail, the ways that she goes from point A to point B to point C on her journey, I would say, are neither bad nor good. They are mediocre to average. Again, I enjoy Alien 3, but I would have enjoyed Alien 3 a bit better if it wasn't a mess and followed through, any, of the plot ideas given in this draft.

You are implying that it isn't agreed upon that this film has narrative faults, when it really just does, those are facts.

Edit: I have this draft, it's a third draft by Greg Press and Vincent Ward from June, 14th 1990. I don't know if anybody's read it, If I'm allowed I'll upload it tomorrow morning, I'm going to bed.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 17, 2015, 02:53:53 AM
she is a single minded character, or build up to that with no conflict of killing herself aside from a few shots of her having second thoughts but knowing it has to be done. This isn't even a closure for her character as you're making it out, and I suppose you could always say it's just a brutal world, I get that. But what they wanted to do was give a tragic closure trope,

The Ripley from Ward's script is battling demons internally and externally. The Ripley from the movie is only battling the Alien externally. When she learns of the Queen inside her, you're right, she has no conflict of killing herself aside from a few shots of her having second thoughts but knowing it has to be done because its right. She's a stronger character with no inner demons because she is the product of being right in a universe full of wrongs.

Ward's script is all about someone facing their fears whereas the final movie (whether intentional or not) presents us a character who has already faced her fears. Thats the arc seen in Aliens.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 17, 2015, 02:53:53 AM
You are implying that it isn't agreed upon that this film has narrative faults, when it really just does, those are facts.

Faults you haven't presented. So far all you've done is say that Ward's script was a better arc for Ripley because she has inner demons to face. That doesn't reflect negatively on the actual movie we've got because its a different story and arc for Ripley.

Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 17, 2015, 08:35:39 AM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 17, 2015, 02:53:53 AM
she is a single minded character, or build up to that with no conflict of killing herself aside from a few shots of her having second thoughts but knowing it has to be done. This isn't even a closure for her character as you're making it out, and I suppose you could always say it's just a brutal world, I get that. But what they wanted to do was give a tragic closure trope,

The Ripley from Ward's script is battling demons internally and externally. The Ripley from the movie is only battling the Alien externally. When she learns of the Queen inside her, you're right, she has no conflict of killing herself aside from a few shots of her having second thoughts but knowing it has to be done because its right. She's a stronger character with no inner demons because she is the product of being right in a universe full of wrongs.

Ward's script is all about someone facing their fears whereas the final movie (whether intentional or not) presents us a character who has already faced her fears. Thats the arc seen in Aliens.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 17, 2015, 02:53:53 AM
You are implying that it isn't agreed upon that this film has narrative faults, when it really just does, those are facts.

Faults you haven't presented. So far all you've done is say that Ward's script was a better arc for Ripley because she has inner demons to face. That doesn't reflect negatively on the actual movie we've got because its a different story and arc for Ripley.

I'm not implying Ward's script has a better arc just because she has a demon to face. It's not just that Ripley was facing her fears, she was facing herself. I'm implying they tried to recycle that idea into the plot of the third film we got, at the hands of David Giler and Walter Hill, who adapted the ideas into a different context. Along with rushed production, we received a beautiful film, that was relatively light on plot, and the released assembly cut in my opinion, is a good movie, but nothing above that. It's not a great movie, or a mind blowing movie, it's just average/good.

It's plot is as thick as it's predecessors.

Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 17, 2015, 03:08:11 PM
It's plot is as thick as it's predecessors.

It's not but that's besides the point, I like the movie, I'm not shitting all over Alien 3, the Assembly Cut is a good film, but it is dissapointing because they could have done so much more with what they had right in front of them the whole time, but everything was working against them. Fincher actively didn't co-operate with Giler and Hill, on where they thought the story should go from their re-writes.

How is its plot not as thick as Alien or Aliens?

Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 17, 2015, 03:14:52 PM
How is its plot not as thick as Alien or Aliens?

I never implied it wasn't.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 17, 2015, 03:12:38 PMIt's not but that's besides the point, I like the movie, I'm not shitting all over Alien 3, the Assembly Cut is a good film, but it is dissapointing because they could have done so much more with what they had right in front of them the whole time, but everything was working against them.

With the exception of Gibson's second draft and possibly Twohy's script, none of the discarded Alien 3 scripts are as good as the film we ultimately got.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 17, 2015, 03:12:38 PMFincher actively didn't co-operate with Giler and Hill, on where they thought the story should go from their re-writes.

Giler and Hill, the people who wanted Ghengis Khan to fight the Alien in the first film. I'm inclined to give credit to Fincher's intentions long before theirs.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 17, 2015, 03:19:46 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 17, 2015, 03:12:38 PMIt's not but that's besides the point, I like the movie, I'm not shitting all over Alien 3, the Assembly Cut is a good film, but it is dissapointing because they could have done so much more with what they had right in front of them the whole time, but everything was working against them.

With the exception of Gibson's second draft and possibly Twohy's script, none of the discarded Alien 3 scripts are as good as the film we ultimately got.

Very debatable.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 17, 2015, 03:19:46 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 17, 2015, 03:12:38 PMFincher actively didn't co-operate with Giler and Hill, on where they thought the story should go from their re-writes.

Giler and Hill, the people who wanted Ghengis Khan to fight the Alien in the first film. I'm inclined to give credit to Fincher's intentions long before theirs.

That is actually the point I'm making. I was saying Fincher, I'm assuming, because he's actually a good film maker, wanted to keep some of the motifs from the various material he read from the project, from half finished scripts by Giler and Hill to Ward/Fassano/Rex etc. But Giler and Hill were on the "side" of the studio, wanted things to go shot by shot from the script, this scene, next. That's not a way to make a movie, it's a collaborative experience. A collaborative experience was not what Fincher was given.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 17, 2015, 03:23:31 PMVery debatable.

Ward's was the last of the unmade Alien 3 scripts I read. Given the amount of hype it's been given over the years, I was utterly underwhelmed when I finally read it. The location was cool but completely illogical, and beyond that the story and characters were really weak. Even Ripley wasn't that interesting. Plus it had way too many wtf moments that just made no sense. I was expecting a hell of a lot more.

The film they actually made, even with it's flaws, is far superior. For the most part, it took the best elements from Ward's script and threw out all the rubbish.

It's a terrible script. I genuinely loath that vision of Alien and am so glad we never got it. It was completely unsuitable. It felt so ungrounded from the "reality" of the Alien world. I'm sure it would have made an interesting film, just not an interesting Alien film.

And I completely agree on your assessment of Twohy and Gibson's second draft being the better ones. I never liked Gibson's first one but the second draft was much more mellowed out and felt more suitable for the Alien series.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 17, 2015, 03:27:33 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 17, 2015, 03:23:31 PMVery debatable.

Ward's was the last of the unmade Alien 3 scripts I read. Given the amount of hype it's been given over the years, I was utterly underwhelmed when I finally read it. The location was cool but completely illogical, and beyond that the story and characters were really weak. Even Ripley wasn't that interesting. Plus it had way too many wtf moments that just made no sense. I was expecting a hell of a lot more.

The film they actually made, even with it's flaws, is far superior. For the most part, it took the best elements from Ward's script and threw out all the rubbish.

Well, interesting you say that because you're wrong about that, well, pretty much everything. It's more than just what's on paper, it's how it adds up.  The third draft I read responds to much of your criticisms anyways. Her desire to survive and nothing else, with her Super-Ego of the beginning of Alien, protocol and taught experience and family life, leaving her Ego in mess. The entire point of that script was to balance out the Id of her, representative of the Alien, in her Ego, represented as the Wooden Orb, and her super-ego she left behind, represented by the monks. Id, is an idea that has been used in the past as interchangeable with sin, it is the instinct personality outside of the conscious trained of Super-Ego, and the middle-man of Ego. Sex, survival, eating, drinking, etc. "I cannot die". That is Id. That is the Alien, that is what Ripley must balance and confront and shrink in order to move on with the rest of her life or be at peace.

These were not ideas fully formed from what we got, Fincher knows this, he wanted to get some of these ideas into the subtext of the film we received, but for the most part they didn't, and he disowned the film because he was in production hell and knew enough to be mad at the final product, Assembly Cut or not. You enjoy Alien 3 for its presentation of the recycled elements of Ward's ideas, thus you appreciate the potential it had without realizing it.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 17, 2015, 03:33:27 PM
It's a terrible script. I genuinely loath that vision of Alien and am so glad we never got it. It was completely unsuitable. It felt so ungrounded from the "reality" of the Alien world. I'm sure it would have made an interesting film, just not an interesting Alien film.

And I completely agree on your assessment of Twohy and Gibson's second draft being the better ones. I never liked Gibson's first one but the second draft was much more mellowed out and felt more suitable for the Alien series.

Gibson's script was mindless, everyone agreed on that in production, as a matter of fact it's why Renny Harlin left. Then Red came aboard and wrote the disaster we all know about (It did have some horrific visuals). Twohy's script was typically a Twohy script, and there's a reason why we don't hear about him nearly as much as ten years ago when people were asking in passing what Riddick even is.

I would take, an art film, over a mindless shift in the direction of camp, metal hallways, and sets that could easily be built with low lighting and nothing remarkable about them but metal and metal without any colour. They both involve ideas about the military that are just utterly corny and flat without anything you could do with it. Again, the reason Alien 3 works, is because they were smart enough to start collaborating, albeit not by actually collaborating but recycling into a pit of ideas.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 17, 2015, 03:45:20 PM
Gibson's script was mindless, everyone agreed on that in production, as a matter of fact it's why Renny Harlin left. Then Red came aboard and wrote the disaster we all know about (It did have some horrific visuals). Twohy's script was typically a Twohy script, and there's a reason why we don't hear about him nearly as much as ten years ago when people were asking in passing what Riddick even is.

And Pitch Black and Riddick are better Alien movies than Cubed and Resurrection, so maybe "typically a Twohy script" would have been just fine.

Quote from: KiramidHead on Mar 17, 2015, 03:53:41 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 17, 2015, 03:45:20 PM
Gibson's script was mindless, everyone agreed on that in production, as a matter of fact it's why Renny Harlin left. Then Red came aboard and wrote the disaster we all know about (It did have some horrific visuals). Twohy's script was typically a Twohy script, and there's a reason why we don't hear about him nearly as much as ten years ago when people were asking in passing what Riddick even is.

And Pitch Black and Riddick are better Alien movies than Cubed and Resurrection, so maybe "typically a Twohy script" would have been just fine.

Ressurection I could agree with you. Alien 3, it's debatable. The point is that Alien 3 could have been better than it ended up had it not been in production hell.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 17, 2015, 03:45:20 PMWell, interesting you say that because you're wrong about that, well, pretty much everything. It's more than just what's on paper, it's how it adds up.

That's my problem, it didn't add up to anything. It didn't develop or further Ripley in any way. It just throws her into this needlessly abstract scenario that makes absolutely no sense, puts her through the horror of finding an Alien inside her and her imprisonment, only to have the embryo pop into someone else at the end so that Ripley can continue on her merry way. It doesn't further her character at all. It doesn't even really deal with the loss of Hicks and Newt, and certainly not as effectively as Alien 3 did. They're just dead at the start and that's that. The film we got at least managed to accomplish those things effectively.

The only things Ward's screenplay has going for it is a silly wooden moon powered by windmills and some nice religious overtones. Well, the latter is perfectly well represented in the Assembly Cut of Alien 3, while the former was, thankfully, thrown out.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 17, 2015, 03:45:20 PMGibson's script was mindless, everyone agreed on that in production, as a matter of fact it's why Renny Harlin left.

Wrong, Harlin walked out because of Red's script, not Gibson's. And Gibson's second draft was anything but mindless.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 17, 2015, 03:45:20 PMI would take, an art film, over a mindless shift in the direction of camp, metal hallways, and sets that could easily be built with low lighting and nothing remarkable about them but metal and metal without any colour.

Since when was "art film" justification for "stupid stuff that makes no sense"? Ward's script was certainly an art film. But it was a crap Alien film.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 17, 2015, 04:13:12 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 17, 2015, 03:45:20 PMWell, interesting you say that because you're wrong about that, well, pretty much everything. It's more than just what's on paper, it's how it adds up.

That's my problem, it didn't add up to anything. It didn't develop or further Ripley in any way. It just throws her into this needlessly abstract scenario that makes absolutely no sense, puts her through the horror of finding an Alien inside her and her imprisonment, only to have the embryo pop into someone else at the end so that Ripley can continue on her merry way. It doesn't further her character at all. It doesn't even really deal with the loss of Hicks and Newt, and certainly not as effectively as Alien 3 did. They're just dead at the start and that's that. The film we got at least managed to accomplish those things effectively.

The only things Ward's screenplay has going for it is a silly wooden moon powered by windmills and some nice religious overtones. Well, the latter is perfectly well represented in the Assembly Cut of Alien 3, while the former was, thankfully, thrown out.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 17, 2015, 03:45:20 PMGibson's script was mindless, everyone agreed on that in production, as a matter of fact it's why Renny Harlin left.

Wrong, Harlin walked out because of Red's script, not Gibson's. And Gibson's second draft was anything but mindless.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 17, 2015, 03:45:20 PMI would take, an art film, over a mindless shift in the direction of camp, metal hallways, and sets that could easily be built with low lighting and nothing remarkable about them but metal and metal without any colour.

Since when was "art film" justification for "stupid stuff that makes no sense"? Ward's script was certainly an art film. But it was a crap Alien film.

They could have still adapted most of what made Ward's script good, the good character ideas for Ripley, and placed it in a similar world. Like a metal orb? Just a rusting black piece of shit? You can keep the Super-Ego nature of old and tradition by having this dark, murky, rusty, wet, steaming, almost Industrial Revolution looking interior. Change the monks to a cult, or anything. A cult would be really interesting!  Out there in the middle of space, off the radar, nobody would even know the orb would exist, it might have been towed, but the crew were part of a cult, and gave coordinates off the grid where they wouldn't make the trip home, but began populating a place to stay for good away from civilization. It keeps the basic ideas. They even went with a cult direction with the prisoners by what's seen in some of Giger's rough conceptual art, and it survived into the Golic character.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-NW3O1TmtKeM%2FU4Iy5-CVi-I%2FAAAAAAAALSY%2F8EPOcjT40Bw%2Fs1600%2Falien3sketches1.png&hash=f3001db13ab0fd13e3378a12d61e2027046cf6d6)

The point being, the Studio was on everyone's ass, people were under pressure, and so, other people had to hurry up. Anyone with creativity given the material would want to recycle ideas or try and attempt to shift things in an interesting direction with what was possible, this is not the case. They went overboard changing up what worked because elements of it didn't. That was the fault of Giler and Hill. They had potential to even make it work without the empty void of space, on a planet, and they did a pretty decent job of doing it, but it still was not enough to work. Fincher is not happy with this film for a reason.

And you're right, Renny did walk out because of Red, I misremembered. that.

And for the second draft of Gibson, it was smarter, but, the whole Cold War angle was done to death at that point, the Soviet Union was hardly ready to stay much longer by 1987. Had it been filmed, it would have been released, just several years before the Soviet Union disintegrated. Alien has always implied but never outright stated, the politics of the world around it. Forcing a Cold War element, just didn't feel right to me. And the virus subplot as it was in the second draft was shunted (Compared to the first draft [which was a bit too corny]) and it all felt like they were trying to make it work but shrank it. It all really, felt neat, but it wasn't particularly interesting.

Hey, Fury 161 was a rusted orange piece of shit. :P

And I partly agree about the Cold War angle in Gibson's drafts, but the communist aspects could have easily been written out if they wanted to.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 17, 2015, 03:15:46 PM

Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 17, 2015, 03:14:52 PM
How is its plot not as thick as Alien or Aliens?

I never implied it wasn't.

Apologies, I must have been thrown off when you said...

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 17, 2015, 03:12:38 PM

Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 17, 2015, 03:08:11 PM
It's plot is as thick as it's predecessors.

It's not but that's besides the point,

I thought we were discussing how rich and tick the plots are, comparing Ward's idea to the final product.

I must admit I'm somewhat confused about the point Network is trying to make. Can you clarify?

I don't wanna put words in his mouth but I think he's saying Ward's script had a lot interesting of stuff going for it, something the filmmakers had at their disposal when making Alien 3. And that its a shame only fragments of his story made it through to the final product.

Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 17, 2015, 06:45:16 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 17, 2015, 03:15:46 PM

Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 17, 2015, 03:14:52 PM
How is its plot not as thick as Alien or Aliens?

I never implied it wasn't.

Apologies, I must have been thrown off when you said...

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 17, 2015, 03:12:38 PM

Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 17, 2015, 03:08:11 PM
It's plot is as thick as it's predecessors.

It's not but that's besides the point,

I thought we were discussing how rich and tick the plots are, comparing Ward's idea to the final product.

It was a mix up. I did actually say, that it didn't have a thick plot the second quote, but I'm just tired. I'm kind of on the fence about how thick its plot is, but I'm of the opinion that the Assembly Cut is capable enough, but the theatrical cut isn't. So the theatrical cut really isn't, as good as its predecessors, while the Assembly Cut is. Thus the mix up.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 17, 2015, 06:50:08 PM
I must admit I'm somewhat confused about the point Network is trying to make. Can you clarify?

I'm not a native English speaker :P

But I'll try my best. All I'm saying, is that the Ward script, while pretty Out-There, had many elements, such as the development of Ripley's character, that should not have been changed as much. The logic of the change being, the Ward script had problems, so they recycled the ideas, but removed a lot that worked about the script.

The central idea of Ripley's character is as follows. You can read it from the basic Freud's structural understanding of the psyche. Although it is long out dated, it still is a great way, to analyze characters transformations, and balances within the self. Knowing how Freudian Alien is, it is perfect, that something along these lines, is put in the context of Alien.

The Id, is the basic part of the mind. It controls our urges for sex, water, hunger, sleep, and our impulses, it's our desire to survive. It's the trigger that shoots out when you think "Huh, my mouth is dry, I could use a glass of water." or in other circumstances "There is an Alien organism on board the Nostromo, I gotta get out of here alive at all costs." It is also, interpretable as sin. It's the easiest part of us that is subject for our desires, of all the seven deadly sins. Gluttony, Lust, Greed, Hubris, Wrath, Vanity, and Sloth. The easiest way to understand this, is that it is the part of you that helps you survive, but it's also the part of you that lacks serious impulse control, and so naturally comes into conflict with a Christian society. But most of all, one can see the Alien itself as a giant Id. It is a primitive being that is just, pure, total Id.

The Ego is the middle man, that manages between Super-Ego, and Id.It seeks to please the id's drive in realistic ways that will benefit in the long term rather than bring grief. The ego is the judgment, tolerance, reality testing, control, planning, defense, synthesis of information, intellectual functioning, and memory, of what makes you, you! The ego separates out what is real. It helps us to organize our thoughts and make sense of them and the world around us. The ego is that part of the id which has been modified by the direct influence of the external world.  Its task is to find a balance between primitive drives and reality while satisfying the id and super-ego. Its main concern is with the individual's safety and allows some of the id's desires to be expressed, but only when consequences of these actions are marginal. Consequences, that for Ripley in Alien and Aliens, did not exist, and she gave into pure Id, only the will to survive no matter the cost. A colony nuked from orbit? "You can bill me." Running down corridors with flashing light and fire and an Alien chasing you, with everyone you know killed, can throw things out of balance, into a state of trauma, of Id.

The Super-Ego reflects the internalization of cultural rules, mainly taught by parents applying their guidance and influence. It's tradition, religion, faith, you get the idea. The installation of the super-ego can be described as a successful instance of identification with the parental agency. The super-ego works in contradiction to the id. The super-ego strives to act in a socially appropriate manner, whereas the id just wants instant self-gratification. The super-ego controls our sense of right and wrong and guilt. It helps us fit into society by getting us to act in socially acceptable ways. Ripley, had to turn off her Super-Ego temporarily and thrive in the fight or flight/rush or die, manner, of Alien and Aliens. These are also the monks who are representative of it.

Bare in mind none of this is actually how human psychology works, this has been mostly proven false. Psychology actually relies more on your own health. But that's another story.

What does this all mean?

It means, from Ward's script, Ripley is exhausted after Aliens. She is floating in space, recovering from the trauma she endured. But the self is out of balance, there is an unbalance of Id within her that has to be corrected, so an inner turmoil must take place, she has to confront her demons, in one last mission.

She crash lands and it just is her. She's pregnant with an Alien (overload of Id). The monks exist as the Super-Ego extreme to the Alien. The Alien represents out of control Id. They see Ripley for what she is, Id, something they totally reject, they humiliate and ban her, because she is foriegn to them just as the Alien. Anthony and John that help her, is the Super-Ego trying to help a solution. The Wooden World itself is the ego Ripley left behind she cannot recognize, it is the protocol she followed in the beginning of Alien, her unwillingness to let Kane in, her suspicion of Ash, it is, installed memory. It's wooden, and old, the monks who live in it, is the Super-Ego of herself she does not recognize, from her old Ego. She, is just a representation of Ripley, self image.

The journey through the planet plays with the nature of this, I think you get my idea, or I hope I'm clearing up some confusion.

I'm just saying, along these lines, these are great ideas. But it's understandable how they got lost in the chaos of Alien 3's production. To a board room executive who doesn't know Id from Ego, Freud sounds like a bunch of unprofitable horse shit. So, Giler and Hill try their best to adapt elements of it, and David Fincher probably tries to fight for ways to bring this forward, met with combat from Giler and Hill and Fox, and everyone else. On top of him being anti-social and really mad, that production isn't going the way he really wanted.

In the end, what's good, from Ward's script, what they were going for, in Ripley's character progression, exists in a way, but it's really not given the same sense of urgency of the development of Ripley's character in relation to her past memories and past life aside from the line "You've been in my life so long I don't remember anything else" which Fox fought Fincher not to include.

In other words, it's a visually stunning film I love in assembly format, but wouldn't it have been great if the visuals reflected what they implied.

See I think Ward's intention was to say the Alien growing in her was the manifestation of her guilt, her Superego - kind of creating a vrigin conception - like a distortion of the Nativity.

I also think that script had a LOT of potential to make a better Alien film than it did, but that script was also a bit too out there. They managed to keep some of the ideas in tact but they needed to keep some ideas they did not either.

A big problem I have with ALIEN 3 that I think WAS part of Ward's script and every film in the series ACCEPT Alien 3 - is the instability of the setting of the film.
Meaning that in Aliens and Alien we are confronted with a fragile setting. In Alien 3 they tried to make that so with NO WEAPONS and Dangerous criminals/prisoners but in ALIEN, we have the fear of killing the alien eating away at the ship, and then the self destruction device, and in aliens,the atmospheric processor is going to explode, so there is that race against time to survive. This suspense is largely missing from the Alien 3 film but was part of Ward's script, with the fire burning the placebut ultimately the setting itself, while largely interesting was too fanciful and needed to be set somewhere else.

Quote from: CainsSon on Mar 18, 2015, 05:57:01 AMThis suspense is largely missing from the Alien 3 film but was part of Ward's script, with the fire burning the placebut ultimately the setting itself, while largely interesting was too fanciful and needed to be set somewhere else.

What about the impending arrival of the Weyland-Yutani team?

I agree the suspense of it wasn't particularly effectively put forward in the film, but neither was the destruction of the wooden planet in Ward's script to be honest. It was kinda just happening in the background, right until the end. I never really got a sense of urgency.

Or the impending arrival of the Queen embryo in Ripley's chest.

I always thought Alien 3 steered it back on to the rails. Not wholly successfully for sure, it all gets a bit unfocused after Clemens and Andrews are dispatched, but it had far more interesting ideas than it's predecessor.  A L I E N  and Alien 3 aren't really popcorn movies, whereas the other two sort of are. Although Resurrection is just too dire and silly to get any pleasure from. Maybe Alien 3 is too bleak to actually enjoy as such, but it's not stupid.  A L I E N  remains the only one that is actually a scary horror movie, and I think it unlikely that Alien 5 will manage to be as terrifying, I just can't see it taking that route.

Quote from: Gash on Mar 19, 2015, 04:34:29 PM
I always thought Alien 3 steered it back on to the rails. Not wholly successfully for sure, it all gets a bit unfocused after Clemens and Andrews are dispatched, but it had far more interesting ideas than it's predecessor.  A L I E N  and Alien 3 aren't really popcorn movies, whereas the other two sot of are. Although Resurrection is just too dire and silly to get any pleasure from. Maybe Alien 3 is too bleak to actually enjoy as such, but it's not stupid.  A L I E N  remains the only one that is actually a scary horror movie, and I think it unlikely that Alien 5 will manage to be as terrifying, I just can't see it taking that route.

Nailed it!

Quote from: Gash on Mar 19, 2015, 04:34:29 PM
I always thought Alien 3 steered it back on to the rails. Not wholly successfully for sure, it all gets a bit unfocused after Clemens and Andrews are dispatched, but it had far more interesting ideas than it's predecessor.  A L I E N  and Alien 3 aren't really popcorn movies, whereas the other two sort of are. Although Resurrection is just too dire and silly to get any pleasure from. Maybe Alien 3 is too bleak to actually enjoy as such, but it's not stupid.  A L I E N  remains the only one that is actually a scary horror movie, and I think it unlikely that Alien 5 will manage to be as terrifying, I just can't see it taking that route.

I don't see why Alien 5 can't replicate the tension of the first film. I realize the last bunch of Alien outings have been lackluster, but let's not write it off yet before we know what's going on.

Im afraid Blomkampt just wants to make his own version of ALIENS.

He has said that both seeing Alien on the big screen and playing Alien Isolation had him reevaluating his intentions.

It seems to me that he doesn't have a clue what he wants. After watching Chappie I'm not surprised.

Quote from: hfeldhaus on Mar 20, 2015, 04:27:25 PM
It seems to me that he doesn't have a clue what he wants.

It is very likely be that it's still early days yet and he can't say anything more than he already has. It's the media making everything seem so confusing, anyways. Blomkamp was pretty clear about his film directly following on from Aliens, while his comment about 3 and Res came off as him simply being respectful of the filmmakers and the fans.

Isn't the reason why Sigourney Weaver is part of the cast is because she was blown away by the script?  I think Blomkamp has a very clear idea of what he wants, it's just that he's keeping people in the dark for now.

We don't know if there's a script yet (I'm inclined to think that there is, or at least a draft), and yeah, his ideas impressed Sigourney and convinced her to take on this installment in the series after passing on many others (namely the old "Alien 5 on Earth" story pitches).

Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Mar 20, 2015, 06:36:26 PM
Isn't the reason why Sigourney Weaver is part of the cast is because she was blown away by the script?  I think Blomkamp has a very clear idea of what he wants, it's just that he's keeping people in the dark for now.

The pitch would be the more accurate term. I doubt Blomkamp has even a first draft screenplay yet. He could have a treatment ready by this point. Though all of that really depends on how much time he has had lately to work on it.

Well, if the film is indeed about to enter pre-production there would be a script. But until Fox officially says something we really have no clue.

More or less. It can depend on the production, of course, but pre-production generally includes getting the script past the treatment/spec-script phase and usually takes a few months to get it ready for shooting. EX of this going wrong of course: Alien 3 took too long in pre-production and just hit their production schedule with a chaotic script situation.

At this point, from what little Blomkamp has said is everything seems to be line up for shooting to start later in the year if things go smoothly. Hopefully, they don't muddy the waters and have a dozen goddamn writers try and "fix" things.

Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 20, 2015, 06:41:28 PMThe pitch would be the more accurate term. I doubt Blomkamp has even a first draft screenplay yet. He could have a treatment ready by this point.

This is the impression I'm getting. Especially given how he's said the film changed when he spoke to Weaver.

Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 20, 2015, 04:39:28 PM

Quote from: hfeldhaus on Mar 20, 2015, 04:27:25 PM
It seems to me that he doesn't have a clue what he wants.

It is very likely be that it's still early days yet and he can't say anything more than he already has. It's the media making everything seem so confusing, anyways. Blomkamp was pretty clear about his film directly following on from Aliens, while his comment about 3 and Res came off as him simply being respectful of the filmmakers and the fans.

This film will likely suffer a number of leaks given its importance. I wouldn't be surprised if the script gets out, to be honest.

A3 went off the rails for me in the sense that it was almost a subtraction of what Aliens did by expanding the scope of the mythos, at least the human side of things with the colonists and marines. 3 should have gone the other way by going (or at least hinting heavily) with the Aliens' origins. This is definitely a reflection of what I would've wanted to see but it should have been more of an adventure with Ripley and co after the Jockeys, instead of Ripley (and Ripley alone) surrounded by a bunch of bald rapists on another lonely human outpost.

Quote from: Gilfryd on Mar 24, 2015, 07:26:29 AMA3 went off the rails for me in the sense that it was almost a subtraction of what Aliens did by expanding the scope of the mythos, at least the human side of things with the colonists and marines.

Of course Alien 3 expanded the mythos. It gave us the whole concept of convicts being shot out into space and left to rot. That's a pretty significant and powerful image. The way future society deals with its undesirables.

That's not anything radically inventive. Prisoners in desolate wastelands is a story element which has been around long before science-fiction. Would expect it probably features in a lot of sci-fi (both early and later) in general, too.

However, didn't the characters in the film volunteer to stay behind, years bfore Ripley arrived? Hence, why everything was in disrepair and hardly any wardens existed?

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 24, 2015, 10:24:01 AMThat's not anything radically inventive. Prisoners in desolate wastelands is a story element which has been around long before science-fiction. Would expect it probably features in a lot of sci-fi (both early and later) in general, too.

If you look at it like that, the battered frontiersmen (colonists) and hardened grunts (Marines) that the previous film brought to the series weren't at all inventive either. My point was, it was an added element to the universe of the franchise, and one I found quite interesting.

The main idea added in A3 was that the Alien takes on the form of it's host. I.E the Dog/Ox Alien.
And then they never used that idea again.

Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 24, 2015, 10:33:31 AM
And then they never used that idea again.

Its used a lot throughout the expanded universe and features in AVP:R.

Not in the movies though.

Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 24, 2015, 10:44:25 AM
Not in the movies though.

AVP:R

Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 24, 2015, 10:51:54 AM

Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 24, 2015, 10:44:25 AM
Not in the movies though.

AVP:R

Haven't seen it.

It features a Predalien.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FaObyBHTY2RU%2Fmaxresdefault.jpg&hash=a26f7081cee8cc0d50a904c40684fbad06abecfe)

Avoid the film, unless you have company and a truckload of intoxicating substances.

Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 24, 2015, 10:55:33 AMAvoid the film, unless you have company and a truckload of intoxicating substances.

Still didn't help for me :)

To be honest I think me and some friends might have skimmed through it one night because it was so awful.

Forgot about the PredAlien.
But I meant the Alien being combined with other earth animals really.

Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 24, 2015, 11:11:14 AM
But I meant the Alien being combined with other earth animals really.

That is true, they have not done that in another movie since 3.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 24, 2015, 10:27:01 AM
If you look at it like that, the battered frontiersmen (colonists) and hardened grunts (Marines) that the previous film brought to the series weren't at all inventive either.

Indeed - and were never intended to be perceived as such. Cameron was never shy about it effectively being a Vietnam analogy in space. It was just done very well, that's all.

QuoteMy point was, it was an added element to the universe of the franchise, and one I found quite interesting.

Well, technically, you could say 'Aliens' introduced the concept of the existence of prisoners, even if it was just going by hints of the Marines' back-stories. :)

The actual prison scenario would have been more interesting if it had been an operational facility, in my view.

Quote from: tmjhur on Mar 24, 2015, 10:33:31 AM
The main idea added in A3 was that the Alien takes on the form of it's host. I.E the Dog/Ox Alien.
And then they never used that idea again.

Fully agreed. Always thought that they should have done so. Even then, the concept didn't really add much, sadly, because the differences were fairly minimal.

Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 24, 2015, 10:55:33 AM
It features a Predalien.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FaObyBHTY2RU%2Fmaxresdefault.jpg&hash=a26f7081cee8cc0d50a904c40684fbad06abecfe)

Avoid the film, unless you have company and a truckload of intoxicating substances.

OMG!!  That's such a cool pic!!! :o  Sometimes it amazes me that I'm the only one here who likes AVPR, I'm sure it surprises you guys too but I imagine for completely different reasons. :P

I kind of like AVPR...

Quote from: predxeno on Mar 25, 2015, 04:47:29 AM

Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 24, 2015, 10:55:33 AM
It features a Predalien.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FaObyBHTY2RU%2Fmaxresdefault.jpg&hash=a26f7081cee8cc0d50a904c40684fbad06abecfe)

Avoid the film, unless you have company and a truckload of intoxicating substances.

OMG!!  That's such a cool pic!!! :o  Sometimes it amazes me that I'm the only one here who likes AVPR, I'm sure it surprises you guys too but I imagine for completely different reasons. :P

No, I like it as well.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 24, 2015, 11:09:09 AM

Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 24, 2015, 10:55:33 AMAvoid the film, unless you have company and a truckload of intoxicating substances.

Still didn't help for me :)

At least you didn't make the mistake of going to the movies to watch it....and I read the reviews first, as a fan of Aliens I felt obligated to watch it, I sorely which I didn't. My eyes have not been the same since.  :P

Its the best fan film ever made.

Me gusta el sexo ;)

Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 25, 2015, 07:17:03 PMIts the best fan film ever made.

I'd question that. Batman: Dead End had far more integrity.

The sad thing is that's not even a joke.

I saw AvP:R three times in theatres and the third time was a full house, with audience applauding at least two scenes in the film: stoner's death and Jessie's death. Suck it :-*

I'm sorry for doing this but...

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmemedepot.com%2Fuploads%2F0%2F486_theres_the_door.jpg&hash=761769f842cf7d25895712596c653119ae5e7547)

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 27, 2015, 11:49:13 AM
I'm sorry for doing this but...

http://memedepot.com/uploads/0/486_theres_the_door.jpg

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tumblr.com%2F2c0b894503e7188e3491b8be3524376c%2Ftumblr_inline_mkgyrm9fL71qz4rgp.gif&hash=13703891cd02887f18e7024990935cad025a8230)

people are dying...... we need guns.

Get to the chopper!

Haha. Alright, let's not go down the spam thread route. I'm sorry I started it.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 27, 2015, 01:33:09 PMHaha. Alright, let's not go down the spam thread route. I'm sorry I started it.

Procrastinating admin is procrastinating.

This thread is just stupid... we should leave town..   ;D

We're not gonna make it out without new information from the director, dickhead!

Them retconning 3 and 4 has been a dream of mine since I saw Alien3. Throw it out like yesterday's garbage.