AvPGalaxy Forums

So some of you may follow this guy on YT. He happened upon the Lindeloff script and it explains a TON of stuff behind Prometheus... Connects the dots on the language, the fact the mural IS the Deacon (like Ive said for years) and even confirms that the Engineers did IN FACT worship the Deacon/Xenomorph! Go watch... NOW ;)



Im gonna have to go hunt down the script now... I definitely wanna read it! Most of this stuff SHOULD HAVE been in Alien Covenant!!!!

The script has been accessible on here for a while now, Dori. http://www.avpgalaxy.net/files/scripts/script-paradise-lindelof.pdf

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Hmmm. Just seen some of the caps...I'm not sure that's legit.

thank you for the link, ill be reading thru that this evening! thought the video was worth the post though!

though all of the points brought up in the video are great! Imagine if Prometheus 2 explained all of this and kept the whole Engineer mythos going instead of 15 second of engineers, then off to mad scientist David and the birthing of his "Deacon". I wouldve been SO happy if the sequel we got followed the lines set in this video and Prometheus instead of where it went in Covenant. Not hating Covenant, but it wasnt the sequel I was waiting and hoping for.

Yeah, the whole colony ship angle was so random and not the most organic way to continue the story. I'd have liked the focus to be a nice medley of engineer, alien, and robot.

To me, Prometheus was: 45% engineer, 45% robot(this is the first time in the series where we have scenes with just the synthetic as the focus), and 10% alien(sprinkles of snakes, zombies, etc).

Covenant was: 45% robot(but its robot stuff was not as strong as Prometheus', Lindelof would've taken a great crack at it), 45% alien, 10% engineer(flashback, giant sculptures, references to them in dialogue. Mere tastes.)

Would you agree with these percentages as well?

My ideal mix is 35% engineer, 35% robot, 30% alien. I loved how they all clicked together like a puzzle in Prometheus, in a twisted family tree.

The transition from early versions of the lifecycle that we knew and loved to the random goo-induced freaks in the final movie was handled so poorly. The Deacon was originally the direct predecessor to the Alien. It then got crowbarred into the final "sting" as a token unconnected callback to the Giger design. Its just so badly thought out. Covenant went back to the Alien: Engineers concepts of the white fleshy creatures getting superceded by the perfected Alien. But the plot goo continues to dog these movies. I think he typed the most apt word in the Paradise script is on p.42; "whank".

Quote from: Biggles on Jan 11, 2018, 01:12:34 AM
The transition from early versions of the lifecycle that we knew and loved..."

Which one?

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 10, 2018, 10:40:45 PM
The script has been accessible on here for a while now, Dori. http://www.avpgalaxy.net/files/scripts/script-paradise-lindelof.pdf

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Hmmm. Just seen some of the caps...I'm not sure that's legit.

I've never read it because it's described as the final draft http://www.avpgalaxy.net/downloads/
But after browsing, it seems to contain elements that aren't in the movie. So did they cut more before filming, making this a near-final draft?

Man I love the part where the engineer tells them that the Earth was a perfect recreation of their own home world, Eden if you will... and here we are abandoning it without a second thought. Which explains David's "They don't deserve to start over and I will not let them" statement. They are a dying species in that there is no place like home.

There we go! I found it! It's from that fake #17 draft.

http://docplayer.net/54299743-Prometheus-by-damon-lindelof.html

Quote from: Gash on Jan 11, 2018, 04:24:17 AM

Quote from: Biggles on Jan 11, 2018, 01:12:34 AM
The transition from early versions of the lifecycle that we knew and loved..."

Which one?

Sorry, that wasn't very clear. The Alien Engineers script had white squishy versions of the Alien, egg &. facehuggers precursors, and introduced the proper Giger versions later, much as Covenant does. Lindelof wrote the overtly Alien designs out, leaving us with hammerpede, troglobyte (sic), and Deacon. Based on designs meant to come before the Alien, but thanks to the rewrite, no longer directly connected. There was no goo, IIRC. Hence the convoluted goo + guy = eyeworm + sex with girl = giant squid = tentacle vagina + Engineer = Deacon. Utter nonsense.

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Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 10, 2018, 10:40:45 PM
The script has been accessible on here for a while now, Dori. http://www.avpgalaxy.net/files/scripts/script-paradise-lindelof.pdf

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Hmmm. Just seen some of the caps...I'm not sure that's legit.

Yes, the draft in video is a fake. Your hosted version is the one confirmed by Lindelof as real.

If my memory serves me at some point in the Prometheus's development, Jesus Christ was an Engineer. They scrapped that because "it was a little too on the nose" or something.


This made me wonder if the cross-shaped position of the Deacon's statue could be a symbol representing the fate of mankind after betraying and crucified one of they creators and an emissary from the stars, who was trying to help and transmit knowledge, if Engineers were the real creators of the Alien as it was originally intended, of course. Or even a simbol of a human turned into a monster as a punishment.


Hell! I can almost fantasize interpreting the unused footage of the original movie as a religious symbol. You know, when the Perfect Organism approach towards its first human victim (if you don't count Kane's death as the first) in a crucifix type position before kill him.




On the other hand, I wonder if religious symbolism was part of Covenant's development at some point, since at least one concept art seems to have images with religious meaning. I'm probably wrong though  :P

Quote from: Crazy Shrimp on Jan 13, 2018, 05:52:09 AM
If my memory serves me at some point in the Prometheus's development, Jesus Christ was an Engineer. They scrapped that because "it was a little too on the nose" or something.

(https://alienseries.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/cbiiq.jpg?w=500)

This made me wonder if the cross-shaped position of the Deacon's statue could be a symbol representing the fate of mankind after betraying and crucified one of they creators and an emissary from the stars, who was trying to help and transmit knowledge, if Engineers were the real creators of the Alien as it was originally intended, of course. Or even a simbol of a human turned into a monster as a punishment.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8156/7691786250_9a8f27a6ed_b.jpg)

Hell! I can almost fantasize interpreting the unused footage of the original movie as a religious symbol. You know, when the Perfect Organism approach towards its first human victim (if you don't count Kane's death as the first) in a crucifix type position before kill him.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.scified.com%2Fu%2FALIEN_DISC2_MM_F0-211.jpg&hash=c3626c77c065b7724f15d40c212ea48d4b0c092e)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgK-1O6KPZI

On the other hand, I wonder if religious symbolism was part of Covenant's development at some point, since at least one concept art seems to have images with religious meaning. I'm probably wrong though  :P

(https://i.imgur.com/56E8njc.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/y3bEcjC.jpg)

The whole religious aspect certainly is an influence.
But it's not just Christianity. There's also stuff from the Maya/Inca/Aztec belief systems.
Birth, rebirth, (self) sacrifice for the greater good,...
And the artwork is often influenced ared based upon images from these books 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_codices, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_codices

(https://study.com/cimages/multimages/16/b16b2ad5-ee85-4a3e-87af-7ce32f67a1db_dresden_codex.png)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mexicolore.co.uk%2Fimages-3%2F394_15_2.jpg&hash=d2de334d7baf048847ad76a74e086e3d6edd88e2)
(https://m1.paperblog.com/i/235/2359661/el-comienzo-monarquia-hispanica-nuevo-mundo-L-UDAIUZ.jpeg)

Quote from: Crazy Shrimp on Jan 13, 2018, 05:52:09 AM
If my memory serves me at some point in the Prometheus's development, Jesus Christ was an Engineer. They scrapped that because "it was a little too on the nose" or something.

Scott talked about that in an interview at the release of "Prometheus".
Some YouTube videos go back to the Engineer Jesus idea but imo Scott's thoughts have moved on from this with "Covenant".

* In "Covenant" (as explained by Ridley in his commentary) the main threat is an out of control AI which is represented by David.
From Scott's commentary.

QuoteThe subtext of this whole story is the evolution of an AI, eventually, will demonstrate his superiority to the human intellect. And if we invent a perfect AI, and then the next thing you do is have that AI then create or invent an equal AI, from that moment, we're in trouble. Unless we can control it. And if we can control it, they may have already perceived we're trying to do that. Intuitively, are ahead of us. And we, therefore, brought about our own destruction.

This is not about Engineer Jesus or another idea mentioned in YT videos, that Weyland was mean to Shaw in front of the awoken Engineer in "Prometheus".
- It seems that an out of control AI is the greatest danger from Scott's POV.

- How to apply that idea to the awoken Engineer scene in "Prometheus"?
The Engineer wakes up and sees that Weyland is a jerk.
But more importantly the Engineer sees Weyland's creation, David.
While the Engineer smiles, he understands the threat which the Engineers have understood for a long time, out of control AI.
Then David is destroyed by the Engineer.

- This danger of out of control behavior can be extended back 2000 years when the Engineers decided to kill humanity.
The Engineers could see that many ancient human rulers were reckless.
Large parts of the Middle East were laid waste by destroying cities and ruining the ecology.
The Engineers understood that as their technology advanced, that humans would eventually create out of control weapons.
Human technology could eventually threaten the Engineers.
The potential of a David represents that concern.

;)

Jesus was black though ;D

Quote from: ChrisPachi on Jan 14, 2018, 11:00:43 AM
Jesus was black though.

and your point is?!

Quote from: ChrisPachi on Jan 14, 2018, 11:00:43 AM
Jesus was black though ;D

Jesus was as black as the prophet Muhammad, Buddha, ancient Vikings etc.

No Jesus was Batman
No, no, no, no, not at all
That was Bruce Wayne


But seriously...

QuoteFIFIELD
                   What do you think caused them to explode?
                   Predator canons?

Quote from: SM on Jan 22, 2018, 09:55:16 PM
No Jesus was Batman
No, no, no, no, not at all
That was Bruce Wayne

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffactmag-images.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F10%2Fryderufo-10.17.2013.jpg&hash=adae798902532b3946e32eccbe3f5a494f8c920b)

The Engineers are actually just Replicants. It's all part of a hoax by Tyrell/Wallace to bankrupt Weyland-Yutani.

Calling it now.

zomg engineer!!1!!
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdigitalspyuk.cdnds.net%2F17%2F34%2F768x318%2Fgallery-1503393743-screen-shot-2017-08-22-at-094811.jpg&hash=2cf2aedf563097274096667b55327e4762981582)

Actually come to think about it... where were all the black engineers.

Oh and don't anyone say because the alien is black.

Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 23, 2018, 06:19:46 AM
Actually come to think about it... where were all the black engineers.

Oh and don't anyone say because the alien is black.

A superior species, no doubt!


I show myself out!

 :laugh:

Quote from: SM on Jan 23, 2018, 01:27:17 AM
zomg engineer!!1!!
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdigitalspyuk.cdnds.net%2F17%2F34%2F768x318%2Fgallery-1503393743-screen-shot-2017-08-22-at-094811.jpg&hash=2cf2aedf563097274096667b55327e4762981582)

Scified Exclusive.

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Quote from: ChrisPachi on Jan 14, 2018, 11:00:43 AM
Jesus was black though ;D

I heard that as from Avenue Q.



3m14.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/gDlJ9ohtndM/maxresdefault.jpg)

.. *sigh

Black aliens.

Hi !

For the people who read this script, we see that there is one first Deacon which was created by an impregnation of an Engineer by a sort of Trilobite. The Engineers tried to recreate this creature with the Black Goo. All of those events where on LV-223.
My questions are :
- What is the creature who impregnate the Engineer ? Where did it come from ?
- What the Engineers were doing on LV-223, before the birth of the Deacon ?

Thank you  ;D

I used to love the idea of Prometheus, just thinking it could be executed better. Hell I liked Convenant. I still thinkfanedits make these movies watchable.

What I hate is how they distract from the messages of the first three films, and completely rewrite the tone and theme of them into something else. Alien, Aliens, and Alien 3 all had a theme of anti-capital, anti-authority, and anti-military. They are effectively, films not about Aliens, the aliens are a backdrop. It's a film about a lived in world, where capitalism has spun out of control, and they're willing to use a life form that can kill everything and commit atrocity to kill their enemies, whoever that may be.

Alien came off the heels of the Vietnam war. Aliens came in the age of Jingoism of Reagan's America. Alien 3 came during the tired exhaustion of the Gulf War.

And you can feel it in all of these films.

With the neoliberal "end of history" rule over all things, that the idea of capitalism can just go on into eternity, that the problems these 3 films addressed have no bearing to the wealthiest in Hollywood, have ironically, stripped what people associate Alien with. Prometheus had a tad of it.

But now it just feels like space opera. There is no tension. People mistake the cosmic horror and Giger-esque aspect of the films being lost as the #1 problem this series faces now. It's actually quite different. You can have a good Alien movie, with the less Giger influenced beast from Alien 3.

You cannot have an Alien movie when you forget the entirety of the tone of these movies and move to "the mysteries" fans are so eager to eat up. It just feels far more reactionary and far less reflective if all there is left to the meat of the series is monsters and gods.