Today from The Hollywood Reporter:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/terminator-what-happened-star-michael-biehn-1228634
- There aren't many topics that are truly sore subjects for Biehn, but Alien 3 — and his character's controversial offscreen death — are among them.
Alien 3, the troubled 1992 directorial debut from David Fincher, saw Hicks and the young girl Newt (Carrie Henn) die in a crash after the events of Aliens — a move that essentially negated the climactic events of Cameron's sequel. Unbeknownst to Biehn, the production planned on using his Hicks in the film — and had created a fake version of the character with his chest burst open, apparently after incubating an alien Xenomorph. Biehn got word from a producer friend, and called up his agent, furious. After tense negotiating, Biehn and Limato killed the chestburster idea, but gave permission to use his picture in the film — in exchange for a big payday.
"I've never seen anything past Aliens. I've never seen Aliens, 3, 4, 5. I didn't watch Covenant. I have no interest in anything like that. Any movie I'm close to or movies I wanted that I didn't get, I just don't watch them. There's no reason to put myself through the pain of 'I could have done so much better than that,' " says Biehn.
(Sigourney) Weaver still mourns the loss of Hicks, because of what further exploring that relationship could have meant for Ripley's character.
"I don't know what would have happened if Jim Cameron had directed Alien 3. I think it would have grown into a much more serious relationship and it would have been wonderful to see that," Weaver says. "I think he would be able to match Ripley strength for strength, which is something you haven't seen her experience."
There's more there about getting the role of Hicks, Bill Paxton, Terminator and his career in general.
None of this surprises me.
This matter is another egg on the Sulaco. It will never end.
Quote
"I don't know what would have happened if Jim Cameron had directed Alien 3. I think it would have grown into a much more serious relationship and it would have been wonderful to see that," Weaver says. "I think he would be able to match Ripley strength for strength, which is something you haven't seen her experience."
Would they bring each other potential to the fullest? We will never know.
Quote from: Samhain13 on Aug 02, 2019, 10:02:31 PM
Would they bring each other potential to the fullest? We will never know.
Sigourney Weaver's willingness. De-aging software.
Don't speak too soon!
Wasn't it Weaver's idea to kill Ripley in the first place?
She's definitely gone on record saying that. Probably SM or SiL can list better than me all her explanations why throughout the years, but the mixing of Alien and Predator was her latest reasoning I believe.
Wow, arrogant.
(I refer to Michael Biehn's suggestion,
not Sigourney Weaver.)
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 02, 2019, 10:18:45 PM
Wasn't it Weaver's idea to kill Ripley in the first place?
Cameron mentioned she wanted no guns, to make love to the Alien and die. Ward originally had Brother John do an exorcism where the Ripley vomits up the Alien. It enters John, then he kills himself. Weaver, I believe, said she wanted to die so Ward and Fasano rewrote it.
Any idea why she decided to come back for AR?
The money thing.
Yeah agreed. Ripley said she liked the Resurrection script, but she also said Resurrection's huge payday allowed her to do the smaller projects she really wanted to do. So I suspect it was mostly the latter.
After the reception Alien 3 got, I actually allowed myself to believe that there was nowhere to go but up. Too bad I was wrong. Maybe Weaver felt the same and just said "f**k it."
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 03, 2019, 12:27:39 AM
Any idea why she decided to come back for AR?
It was a chance to do a new take on the character.
Spoiler
And the record payday.
The Resurrection concept was doomed from the start, the bizarre film we got is the best one possible in my opinion because it's actually partially aware of the farce it is.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Aug 03, 2019, 11:06:25 AM
Spoiler
And the record payday.
Record payday + new take on an established character = the f**k else could your really want?
Sigourney had the best acting in the series in the third film.
But her time is like that of the dinosaur, it's done.
Even though with Linda Hamilton coming back for Terminator, and her being the other primary action heroine of that era, you have to wonder if those cogs are turning in Sigourney's head again about the franchise.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Aug 03, 2019, 03:27:35 PM
Even though with Linda Hamilton coming back for Terminator, and her being the other primary action heroine of that era, you have to wonder if those cogs are turning in Sigourney's head again about the franchise.
I thought Jamie Lee Curtis' lauded return to Halloween might've gotten her back on the phone to Blomkamp. If Hamilton's return is successful too then who knows.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Aug 03, 2019, 03:27:35 PMEven though with Linda Hamilton coming back for Terminator, and her being the other primary action heroine of that era, you have to wonder if those cogs are turning in Sigourney's head again about the franchise.
I thought after Neill Blomkamp's Alien 5 and Cameron's efforts, Sigourney's turning cogs was already a given?
Quote from: Valaquen on Aug 03, 2019, 04:37:20 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Aug 03, 2019, 03:27:35 PM
Even though with Linda Hamilton coming back for Terminator, and her being the other primary action heroine of that era, you have to wonder if those cogs are turning in Sigourney's head again about the franchise.
I thought Jamie Lee Curtis' lauded return to Halloween might've gotten her back on the phone to Blomkamp. If Hamilton's return is successful too then who knows.
I have the blu ray still wrapped up and unwatched.
Maybe today I'll watch it.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Aug 03, 2019, 04:44:25 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Aug 03, 2019, 03:27:35 PMEven though with Linda Hamilton coming back for Terminator, and her being the other primary action heroine of that era, you have to wonder if those cogs are turning in Sigourney's head again about the franchise.
I thought after Neill Blomkamp's Alien 5 and Cameron's efforts, Sigourney's turning cogs was already a given?
I havent heard her say anything regarding the franchise since the Blomkamp fiasco.
Blomkamp is when they were turning years ago.
Quote from: Valaquen on Aug 03, 2019, 04:37:20 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Aug 03, 2019, 03:27:35 PM
Even though with Linda Hamilton coming back for Terminator, and her being the other primary action heroine of that era, you have to wonder if those cogs are turning in Sigourney's head again about the franchise.
I thought Jamie Lee Curtis' lauded return to Halloween might've gotten her back on the phone to Blomkamp. If Hamilton's return is successful too then who knows.
Jamie Lee Curtis isn't the only reason the last Halloween went so well. She was in 3 other sequels and they went... just fine by slasher movies standards. There were many factors that made the last movie work. Trying to focus solely in doing that same thing to Terminator or Alien might not go so well.
Indeed, you're totally right.
It's way more.
I think nine months ago is close enough to think the cogs are still turning. :)
- Will we ever see a Neill Blomkamp Alien 5 project?
SIGOURNEY: "We almost started to do it when I was working with James Cameron. But by the time we were put off by Fox, Neill had gotten so many jobs that we'd have to wait probably. I'm busy doing Avatar 4 and 5. I love working with Neill and I think he'd do a terrific job, and James Cameron really thinks it's a great idea, so you never know. Right now, I think Neill's got like three projects going at once."
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/sigourney-weaver-talks-avatar-saga-metoo-at-rome-film-fest-1155711
I hope it's created, so the conversation concerning if it's superior or inferior to the original is then ended.
But I hope it isn't garbage and the original version is subsequently no-longer canon. Yeesh.
So you actually want them to make it now?
Biehn is probably right in his belief he could do better. That character has endured for over 30 years, and his performance is a large factor. The same goes for Kyle Reese, Lt. Coffey, and Johnny Ringo.
Coffey and Johnny Ringo aren't even remotely the same ballpark as Hicks and Reese.
I don't even know of them. lol
You haven't seen The Abyss or Tombstone?
No I don't believe so.
Quote from: SM on Aug 04, 2019, 04:30:58 AM
Coffey and Johnny Ringo aren't even remotely the same ballpark as Hicks and Reese.
You're right. I didn't write that very well. I was trying to make a point about performances and blended it with lasting appeal.
Definitely talented.
I know Michael is praised for Ringo, only surpassed by praise for Val as Doc Holliday, but is his role in the The Abyss celebrated too? I've never heard much of that, but maybe it's because I'm lukewarm to the film and outside those fan circles.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Aug 04, 2019, 06:25:24 AM
No I don't believe so.
I only just recently got around to Tombstone and really enjoyed it. I do recommend giving it a go.
Tombstone is awesome, I don't watch it much anymore because I've seen it so many times. Biehn plays an great villain and the cast is incredible.
This film has Bill Paxton, Michael Biehn, Michael Rooker, Kurt Russell, Val Kilmer, Sam Elliot, Charlton Heston, Stephen Lang, Billy Bob Thornton, Billy Zane, Thomas Haden Church, and Powers Boothe.
If you have any interest in Westerns I recommend checking it out.
Also I think Biehns villain in The Abyss is one of the best things about that film.
It's definitely one of the best things about the Abyss.
It's not a terrible movie by any stretch of the imagination, but it is definately not like Cameron's other action movies and much more of a slow burn in comparison. The extended film is slower still, but makes more sense.
I think Ringo was covered well here already. My knowledge of Coffey doesn't come from fan pages or anything. It's just my general feeling about the character. Ringo and Coffey aren't on the level of Hicks or Reese clearly, but I think they are generally memorable characters. Coffey is a great performance. I would argue it's a better performance than Ringo.
Fiendishlyinventive, I recommend both. A lot more energy in Tombstone, but the Abyss is a good film too.
Tombstone might be the best modern western ever made.
The Abyss is a good scifi movie if you want something a little different. Its not super kinetic or anything like that and is more philosophical than Cameron's other action films. I don't really know if I'd even class it as action tbh. There are a couple of iconic scenes in the movie concerning SFX that have been done better by todays standards but were still fairly awesome back then.
I loved Tombstone. To me Unforgiven tops it. Eastwood,Hackman,Freeman,Harris their performances are superb.
The Abyss is an enjoyable film though I wouldn't call it top shelf. Just my opinion. :)
Perhaps worth investigation then.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Aug 04, 2019, 04:26:36 PM
Tombstone might be the best modern western ever made.
I thought Unforgiven was pretty terrific as well.
Open Range has my vote.
I liked tombstone better because the characters were more interesting.
Haven't seen unforgiven though.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Aug 05, 2019, 01:58:34 AM
I liked tombstone better because the characters were more interesting.
Haven't seen unforgiven though.
Tombstone is A western.
Open Range is A western.
Unforgiven is THE western.
Absolutely, agreed it is.
The Unforgiven came out long after the age of westerns in American cinema was over. It was good because it took elements of many other successful westerns that came before it. I always thought that Young Guns was a more refreshing film and in my opinion deserves a higher spot on any list.
I think for Alien 3 It was a good decision to kill both Hicks and Newt.
I am in agreement.
Quote from: Schaefer on Aug 05, 2019, 12:40:36 PM
I think for Alien 3 It was a good decision to kill both Hicks and Newt.
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CircularPastHoneybee-size_restricted.gif)
But it's also true.
Of course.
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/avp/images/0/06/HicksSawThis%21.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/640?cb=20130816090025)
Beautiful...The true perfect organism...
Biehn's intense portrayal of Hicks made it one of the best action performances of the '80's. There was nothing macho about the way the character was played. He was a sweet gentle soul who had to push through an insanely difficult situation and he did it as well as anyone could.
It was a great loss to have his character wiped out in the opening credits of Alien 3. His performance in the recent Alien 3 audio drama by Gibson shows that he still has what it takes to play the character. Biehn deserves to have the chance to play Hicks again an alternate sequel to Aliens.
Quote from: Schaefer on Aug 05, 2019, 12:40:36 PM
I think for Alien 3 It was a good decision to kill both Hicks and Newt.
But it upset people.
Alien movies don't care about people's feelings.
Upsetting your fan base is not a good idea. :P
But killing off Newt & Hicks was the right thing to do.
Quote from: Darwinsgirl on Aug 06, 2019, 04:03:37 PM
Upsetting your fan base is not a good idea. :P
And yet they keep getting away with it.
Quote from: Samhain13 on Aug 06, 2019, 03:15:28 PM
Alien movies don't care about people's feelings.
This is the main reason why Ripley's resurrection also a good decision.
Alien Resurrection, a good decision lmao. The premise alone is pure nonsense.
Quote from: Drukathi on Aug 06, 2019, 04:36:20 PM
Quote from: Samhain13 on Aug 06, 2019, 03:15:28 PM
Alien movies don't care about people's feelings.
This is the main reason why Ripley's resurrection also a good decision.
Wat. How did we got to this so fast?
(https://media.giphy.com/media/JpdJ8iaeQaSGkk0J5h/giphy.gif)
Experience says no Ripley resurrection is ever a good idea.
The Ripley button should have been locked long ago.
Yes, indeed- Isolation is the exception, not the rule.
It appears both Sigourney Weaver and Michael Biehn ultimately feel Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection both took Alien in the wrong direction.
I just hope they get the opportunity to prove themselves right, or wrong. Let's finally go there and find out.
How about confiscating every copy of Alien 3 and Resurrection too? No sense in half-assing it.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Aug 06, 2019, 04:59:08 PM
It appears both Sigourney Weaver and Michael Biehn ultimately feel Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection both took Alien in the wrong direction.
I just hope they get the opportunity to prove themselves right, or wrong. Let's finally go there and find out.
Preach on Voodoo Magic!
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 06, 2019, 05:05:03 PM
How about confiscating every copy of Alien 3 and Resurrection too? No sense in half-assing it.
I better get some financial compensation over the copies I have. Non-negotiable.
All of it! All of it goes!
(https://media.giphy.com/media/yanrAaRZ9kdpK/giphy.gif)
But Dinox needs to hold onto the negatives just in case the new Alien sucks. ;D
Sure, let's do it. Let the discussion end.
I'm not saying it's a good idea, I just don't see why not-
Apart from if it's actually awful, and a new era is attempted upon it's foundation.
Quote from: Samhain13 on Aug 06, 2019, 04:42:52 PM
Wat. How did we got to this so fast?
Quote from: Samhain13 on Aug 06, 2019, 03:15:28 PM
Alien movies don't care about people's feelings.
This opens all the doors. ;)
I really don't think so. lol
Quote from: Drukathi on Aug 06, 2019, 04:36:20 PM
Quote from: Samhain13 on Aug 06, 2019, 03:15:28 PM
Alien movies don't care about people's feelings.
This is the main reason why Ripley's resurrection also a good decision.
Dude I enjoy the movie we ended up with (in spite of a lot of factors, not because of them), but c'mon man it wasn't a good decision. It was an awful one that fell ass-backwards into a movie that's much more watchable than it has any right to be.
I think it was a good decision, that wasn't fully realised.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 06, 2019, 09:06:16 PM
Dude I enjoy the movie we ended up with (in spite of a lot of factors, not because of them), but c'mon man it wasn't a good decision. It was an awful one that fell ass-backwards into a movie that's much more watchable than it has any right to be.
Well, I agree. So many disgusting visual decisions. Eggs, "hive", Newborn, Ripleys 1-7... But I think Ron Perlman saved all the fun.
It isn't even an adequate decision.
Regardless of the degree of realisation.
Quote from: Drukathi on Aug 06, 2019, 09:28:18 PM
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 06, 2019, 09:06:16 PM
Dude I enjoy the movie we ended up with (in spite of a lot of factors, not because of them), but c'mon man it wasn't a good decision. It was an awful one that fell ass-backwards into a movie that's much more watchable than it has any right to be.
Well, I agree. So many disgusting visual decisions. Eggs, "hive", Newborn, Ripleys 1-7... But I think Ron Perlman saved all the fun.
I love Ron Perlman, but Ron had no business being casted in a Alien film in my humble opinion. Blade 2? Perfect. Hellboy? Perfect. Sons of Anarchy? Perfect. A Predator film in an alternate reality? Perfect. But not Alien.
Quote from: Drukathi on Aug 06, 2019, 09:28:18 PM
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 06, 2019, 09:06:16 PM
Dude I enjoy the movie we ended up with (in spite of a lot of factors, not because of them), but c'mon man it wasn't a good decision. It was an awful one that fell ass-backwards into a movie that's much more watchable than it has any right to be.
Well, I agree. So many disgusting visual decisions. Eggs, "hive", Newborn, Ripleys 1-7... But I think Ron Perlman saved all the fun.
your opinions
plus fifield avatar
best stealth trolling in a long time
10/10
Quote from: Kimarhi on Aug 07, 2019, 04:16:29 AM
Quote from: Drukathi on Aug 06, 2019, 09:28:18 PM
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 06, 2019, 09:06:16 PM
Dude I enjoy the movie we ended up with (in spite of a lot of factors, not because of them), but c'mon man it wasn't a good decision. It was an awful one that fell ass-backwards into a movie that's much more watchable than it has any right to be.
Well, I agree. So many disgusting visual decisions. Eggs, "hive", Newborn, Ripleys 1-7... But I think Ron Perlman saved all the fun.
your opinions
plus fifield avatar
best stealth trolling in a long time
10/10
That's bullshit but I believe it.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Aug 07, 2019, 04:16:29 AM
Quote from: Drukathi on Aug 06, 2019, 09:28:18 PM
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 06, 2019, 09:06:16 PM
Dude I enjoy the movie we ended up with (in spite of a lot of factors, not because of them), but c'mon man it wasn't a good decision. It was an awful one that fell ass-backwards into a movie that's much more watchable than it has any right to be.
Well, I agree. So many disgusting visual decisions. Eggs, "hive", Newborn, Ripleys 1-7... But I think Ron Perlman saved all the fun.
your opinions
plus fifield avatar
best stealth trolling in a long time
10/10
LOL. :laugh:
Well, if you find the image of "drukathi" - let me know.
About my opinion about AR - it's pretty funny film, but with disgusting visual details. As I said: stirring eggs, the "hive" design, Newborn - it's pure ugliness. Other moments: Wren eat pasta from a Ripley plate, Call removes the "snot" (plug for the modem) from her hand, and, of course Newborn's death, some another moments. I think, I have clearly explained my attitude to AR. :)
P.S. Sorry for off-topic.
Quote from: Drukathi on Aug 07, 2019, 09:57:45 AM
Well, if you find the image of "drukathi" - let me know.
No fanart of those so far. I would be interested in seeing some of them.
Dead Space Alien esque I imagine.
Could have still had Alien 3 (4) after another Hicks and Newt story. I like Alien 3, pretty much always have, still think it was a mistake to kill em off though.
Rez is just ok. I think Ripley could star in AVPR2 "Aliens on a Plane" and half the Alien fans would dig it because she's in it.
Nah, I think it's the right decision-
I always loved the 1, 2, 3 bang of it.
Plus the purpose of their existence finished with the end of Ripley's arc, in my opinion.
I would say it's somewhat because when you came into this world you already had Alien, Aliens and Alien 3 available to see in one fell swoop. Many of us were heavily invested in Aliens and we're waiting for years to see what sort of adventure Ripley and friends will get into next. The payoff fell short of expectations to say the least.
I can understand those feels.
Aliens was my favorite movie for more than a decade.
But despite Aliens coming out a year after I was born, I didn't see them till in the 90's. And I watched them rapid fire and out of order.
Aliens, Alien 3, and then Alien.
So Even though I was around, I wasn't affected by the wait.
Saw aliens first. The original next. Then Alien 3 on tv one night, thus that love affair began.
Quote from: Huggs on Aug 08, 2019, 11:23:15 PM
Saw aliens first. The original next. Then Alien 3 on tv one night, thus that love affair began.
Think that was my order as well, but I rented Alien 3 from the Video shop. I saw Aliens at a mates 8th birthday party. 80's kids eh.
I was born in 85 but I only remember the 90's.
I saw Aliens on my 11th birthday or 10th. All my friends got to see it before me. My anticipation was built up so high you can't imagine. No other film impacted me like this. It's in a class of its own.
Quote from: Samhain13 on Aug 07, 2019, 03:40:33 PM
Quote from: Drukathi on Aug 07, 2019, 09:57:45 AM
Well, if you find the image of "drukathi" - let me know.
No fanart of those so far. I would be interested in seeing some of them.
Here you go:
(https://i.imgur.com/KbKQhjP.jpg)
Did you just whip that out?
Yup :laugh:
(https://media.tenor.com/images/d84e4d88a85b16ad5b49bee467be49f1/tenor.gif)
Respect. Now we know who to pester when we need stuff visualizing.
Sure thing.
Now make the Aliens from them!
Were they different? My only experience of them is from the Out of the Shadows audio play.
Yeah, pretty sure they had the extra arms. Can't recall their exact description off-hand.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 09, 2019, 06:11:40 AM
Here you go:
(https://i.imgur.com/KbKQhjP.jpg)
Awesome!
I don't want to meet this creature in my basement :o
Quote from: Kimarhi on Aug 08, 2019, 11:18:11 PM
I can understand those feels.
Aliens was my favorite movie for more than a decade.
But despite Aliens coming out a year after I was born, I didn't see them till in the 90's. And I watched them rapid fire and out of order.
Aliens, Alien 3, and then Alien.
So Even though I was around, I wasn't affected by the wait.
I was born in 1986 and I saw the trilogy in the same order: Aliens, Alien 3 and then Alien. I was a child and I found Aliens scary, especially the part when Newt is being abducted by the Alien, and yes ... the facehuggers as well :laugh:
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 09, 2019, 06:11:40 AM
Quote from: Samhain13 on Aug 07, 2019, 03:40:33 PM
Quote from: Drukathi on Aug 07, 2019, 09:57:45 AM
Well, if you find the image of "drukathi" - let me know.
No fanart of those so far. I would be interested in seeing some of them.
Here you go:
(https://i.imgur.com/KbKQhjP.jpg)
:o
Quote from: Samhain13 on Aug 06, 2019, 03:15:28 PM
Alien movies don't care about people's feelings.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/LSjGp6LvyKBbTjIte0/giphy.gif)
I saw Aliens when it first came on HBO. So I had a 6 or 7 year wait for what happens next. Me and my friends used to debate about it on the playground lol. I would always tell them JCVD was going to be in the next Alien.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 09, 2019, 06:11:40 AM
Quote from: Samhain13 on Aug 07, 2019, 03:40:33 PM
Quote from: Drukathi on Aug 07, 2019, 09:57:45 AM
Well, if you find the image of "drukathi" - let me know.
No fanart of those so far. I would be interested in seeing some of them.
Here you go:
(https://i.imgur.com/KbKQhjP.jpg)
That's nice. Thanks.
Ah ok. It's hard to tell from printed (digital) pages but Michael Biehn comes across, with a narcissist and stubborn tone in this interview.
Maybe its not unmerited as he realised he was good looking, this earned him a said starting salary of $100,000 for doing ad-hoc commercials capitalising on his good looks. Obviously the "chemistry" and admission from both Sigourney Weaver and Linda Hamilton is real with both admitting in a round about way they fancied him off-screen.
Linda Hamilton (from that interview)
"While Hamilton might not go as far as to say there was any real-life attraction between them, she notes the pair spent weeks of night shoots together, and grew to trust each other as performers.
"I loved him and I don't know a soul who doesn't. He was my world," says Hamilton."
His acting and on-screen chemistry with female co-stars contributed to THE TERMINATOR and ALIENS being 5 star movies.
In regards to him not liking sequels past ALIENS or TERMINATOR 2, I think there is a dark part in all of us who agree with him. My Dad also disliked the overall mediocre elements of sequels like the wasteful ALIEN 3 and TERMINATOR-RISE OF THE MACHINES* (*which in my view is TERMINATOR 2 compared to T-Genesys).
While I've started to love Prometheus and Covenant* (*always liked Covenant anyways) I struggle with how different the aesthetic when you compare the image of Biehn as Hicks, helping Ripley off a Weyland grid floor in ALIENS- compared to any "character" in a quasi ancient rome in Ridley Scott's movies. I really wanted PROMETHEUS to work and be a 4.5/5 movie, but it just didn't. So at times I am in line with Biehn's comments, while irritated by them at the same time. Yes you were in, in my opinion, the best ALIENS movie. But no the other sequels (including AVP) also brought stuff to the table.
In terms of acting and legacy, yes original THE TERMINATOR is indeed in the Library of Congress for Preservation- but Biehn didn't do that many movies compared to actors of his era who also revived their careers for contemporary and modern audiences (like Robert Downy Jr or Brad Pitt).
I'd say THE ROCK (forgotten and under-rated 1996 Michael "explosions!" Bay action movie) and PLANET TERROR were his last best acting gigs.
Question for AVPGALAXY users. Why wasn't Biehn hired from the off-set to play Hicks if Cameron had let Biehn into his secret ALIEN sequel script for ALIENS? I am assuming the casting of James Remar* (*of whom I also like as an actor and would've been good had he played as a different marine) was the choice of producer Walter Hill who worked with Remar on THE WARRIORS with Remar.
Quote from: AVP-CAPCOM on Aug 11, 2019, 06:34:50 AM
In regards to him not liking sequels past ALIENS or TERMINATOR 2, I think there is a dark part in all of us who agree with him.
Reminds me of Tom Skerritt who said he'd never watch a sequel to
Alien.
QuoteQuestion for AVPGALAXY users. Why wasn't Biehn hired from the off-set to play Hicks if Cameron had let Biehn into his secret ALIEN sequel script for ALIENS? I am assuming the casting of James Remar* (*of whom I also like as an actor and would've been good had he played as a different marine) was the choice of producer Walter Hill who worked with Remar on THE WARRIORS with Remar.
Remar's role was landed by Hill. When Remar was fired, they ended up somewhat estranged because of Remar's bad behaviour.
Quote from: Valaquen on Aug 11, 2019, 10:08:23 AM
Quote from: AVP-CAPCOM on Aug 11, 2019, 06:34:50 AM
In regards to him not liking sequels past ALIENS or TERMINATOR 2, I think there is a dark part in all of us who agree with him.
Reminds me of Tom Skerritt who said he'd never watch a sequel to Alien.
Yes we tend to forget some fans are
purists and stick with the original movie. Not a bad choice and I can see why, if I put myself in other people's reasoning.
But come on; the jump from ALIEN to ALIENS wasn't as bad in terms of themes, aesthetic, set-design, continuity of character and story- than say Prometheus. The latter is so different I treat it as a sidequel, alternate universe, rather than something I associate with the quadrilogy.
As for AVP, said it once and I'll say it again. Take it or leave it.
Biehn clearly has his nose in the right direction or we wouldn't be discussing that damned egg all these years later.
Those characters resonated with large parts of the audience. It's why Alien 3 was such a punch in the gut.
It's why Alien 3 DOES NOT WORK.
Alien 3 is a great film when taken out of context of the Aliens film that went before it. If Hicks and Newt were some random characters that you never heard of, then it is a terrific film. However, when you treat it as a direct sequel to Aliens, it falls flat. No question.
I can't shit on Alien 3 as i love is as i do Alien and Aliens, But yeah, it did mess up the franchise story wise.
It would seem even Sigourney Weaver agrees with that sentiment.
Yes, even the lead character actor is incorrect.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 12, 2019, 02:54:58 AM
It's why Alien 3 DOES NOT WORK.
Alien 3 is a great film when taken out of context of the Aliens film that went before it. If Hicks and Newt were some random characters that you never heard of, then it is a terrific film. However, when you treat it as a direct sequel to Aliens, it falls flat. No question.
Yep, 100%
I really don't get it, complaining about various aspects of the film's real issues I understand, even if I disagree (pacing, composition, not empathising, editing) but I never seen the deaths of two/three of the most cliché characters in cinema to be one of them.
When I look at Alien 3 and Clemens, I wonder what the big deal would have been to have that be Hicks instead? Of course maybe he isn't going to deliver medical care, but as far as filling the role of a supportive voice I think that they could have been relatively interchangeable. I think Hicks being male, and a marine may have allowed more respect with Andrews to where the role wouldn't have been much different overall. No need for guns, no need for Hicks to do anything heroic. I could have been an interesting direction, and still would have turned into the dark, nihilistic piece we received. Its just the darkness would have unfolded a bit later.
Now imagine the runner grabs Hicks and punches a hole in his head lol. I wonder how that reaction would have went over?
I'm not trying to knock Alien 3.
I do think cliche is a weak angle though. Every characterization and situation has pretty much been done a million times over at this point.
I think I'd loved your description of the scenario even more. And I'm not (obviously) trying to say it's perfect.
And "everything isn't new" is an even more nonsense angle, it's no reason to create something uninteresting- Even if the character served it's purpose perfectly in the film it's designed for.
Alien 3 is awesome as is. Its just speculation. I bet there would be some gnashing of teeth and a million voices shrieking in terror in that moment (mine included haha, and no Turk.)
Yeah, I agree. (And definitely no, haha.)
Quote from: razeak on Aug 12, 2019, 02:47:51 PM
When I look at Alien 3 and Clemens, I wonder what the big deal would have been to have that be Hicks instead? Of course maybe he isn't going to deliver medical care, but as far as filling the role of a supportive voice I think that they could have been relatively interchangeable. I think Hicks being male, and a marine may have allowed more respect with Andrews to where the role wouldn't have been much different overall. No need for guns, no need for Hicks to do anything heroic. I could have been an interesting direction, and still would have turned into the dark, nihilistic piece we received. Its just the darkness would have unfolded a bit later.
Now imagine the runner grabs Hicks and punches a hole in his head lol. I wonder how that reaction would have went over?
(https://media.giphy.com/media/2gtoSIzdrSMFO/giphy.gif)
Yeah, definitely.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Aug 12, 2019, 02:42:35 PM
I really don't get it, complaining about various aspects of the film's real issues I understand, even if I disagree (pacing, composition, not empathising, editing) but I never seen the deaths of two/three of the most cliché characters in cinema to be one of them.
Sure, but kill them off during the film; give their "sacrifice" some reason. As PO says - this is a sequel. But the whole premise is let down (there was no egg, joke sound effect or not) and two of the main characters from the predecessor are killed off screen.
That said, WhoDa does argue a good point when its also true to say that whilst they're killed off camera, their funerals and the emotional weight thereof is really impactful.
But yeah - standalone, its a great movie. Indeed even with the obvious flaws (like the egg) it's still brilliant. But I've never really been able to forgive it's casual treatment of these characters... or the fact that we have an eleventy billion page thread on the egg... *lol*
Quote from: Russ on Aug 12, 2019, 03:15:57 PM
Sure, but kill them off during the film; give their "sacrifice" some reason.
Biehn is in some YT video somewhere in which he elaborates on how the script treated his character. He says, sure, kill him off, but make it meaningful. He understands that some plots require certain characters be killed off - of course he knows this; he's been killed off plenty of times, in fact, they've been his best roles!
I'd go so far as to say every actor harbours a desire to play a great death scene at least once in their career. It's just that the hope is that it will be as good as the one Leonard Nimoy got when Spock dies at the end of
Wrath of Khan - heroic, emotional, and
meaningful. Hicks's death in A3 was the opposite of that. Forget about 'death scene' - it was barely even a
scene! - relegated as it was to background montage behind the opening titles. No wonder he found it insulting.
TC
Honestly, Newt on a planet full of child molesters isn't a movie I'd like to see. Even with the protection of Hicks, Ripley et al, it's just not a situation I'd enjoy watching or thinking about, it's tasteless.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 12, 2019, 07:05:15 PM
Honestly, Newt on a planet full of child molesters isn't a movie I'd like to see. Even with the protection of Hicks, Ripley et al, it's just not a situation I'd enjoy watching or thinking about, it's tasteless.
I agree, so just drop that aspect then. Just make them murderers, etc.. The understanding is those type of criminals go into prison with a target on their back anyway. Even convicts seem to have a code regarding such horrible actions of abuse.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Aug 12, 2019, 07:14:17 PM
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 12, 2019, 07:05:15 PM
Honestly, Newt on a planet full of child molesters isn't a movie I'd like to see. Even with the protection of Hicks, Ripley et al, it's just not a situation I'd enjoy watching or thinking about, it's tasteless.
I agree, so just drop that aspect then. Just make them murderers, etc.. The understanding is those type of criminals go into prison with a target on their back anyway. Even convicts seem to have a code regarding such horrible actions of abuse.
It's so much easier to just embrace the movie we got, warts and all.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 12, 2019, 07:37:02 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Aug 12, 2019, 07:14:17 PM
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 12, 2019, 07:05:15 PM
Honestly, Newt on a planet full of child molesters isn't a movie I'd like to see. Even with the protection of Hicks, Ripley et al, it's just not a situation I'd enjoy watching or thinking about, it's tasteless.
I agree, so just drop that aspect then. Just make them murderers, etc.. The understanding is those type of criminals go into prison with a target on their back anyway. Even convicts seem to have a code regarding such horrible actions of abuse.
It's so much easier to just embrace the movie we got, warts and all.
Well now that the movie has already been made, indeed. ;D
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Aug 12, 2019, 07:14:17 PM
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 12, 2019, 07:05:15 PM
Honestly, Newt on a planet full of child molesters isn't a movie I'd like to see. Even with the protection of Hicks, Ripley et al, it's just not a situation I'd enjoy watching or thinking about, it's tasteless.
I agree, so just drop that aspect then. Just make them murderers, etc.. The understanding is those type of criminals go into prison with a target on their back anyway. Even convicts seem to have a code regarding such horrible actions of abuse.
Simple. In real life, most convicts are fathers, and I would lean more toward protection of a child than any sort of group dynamic allowing harm, even amongst a group of murderers. It would have to be someone catching the others inattentive or during an attack or something. The simple solution is the pedophiles amongst the group would be as fearful of reprisal from the fathers/murderers as they would be the xeno. At least the xeno would probably be quick. Probably.
I would assume Andrews would order a quarantine, and with a healthy fear of convicts, Ripley and crew may actually adhere to it until a xeno shows up.
The moment could be hinted as a potential threat rather than being the stereotypical centerpiece,and not have to make it on screen visually. From my understanding of protective custody and classification systems amongst differing correctional agencies, I would speculate WY may not lock pedophiles up on a remote world like that anyways due to the probable "distraction" it would become for the non-pedophiles. You're pretty much guaranteeing an incident. It's true pedophiles are locked up in general population, but there are also specific facilities where state funding allows. Then again, government and corporate decisions don't always approach logic.
Were any of the inmates pedophiles in Alien 3? I would be shocked if any made it through the years following the change of status of Fury 161.
I believe Andrews explicitly mentions that some of them are.
Yep. "All thieves, rapists, murderers, child molesters."
Golic also hints that was his crime as well.
Or.... Ripley and friends may not have landed on a prison planet at all.
I'm inclined to think Ripley splits, Hicks becomes drunken and disorderly, and Newt gets institutionalize until the discovery of the Aliens' home world triggers a reunion of sorts! Bam! Academy award nominations start rolling in again!
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 13, 2019, 12:54:49 AM
Or.... Ripley and friends may not have landed on a prison planet at all.
Or...
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 12, 2019, 03:55:34 PM
Hell, they could have given each cryotube its own personal escape pod and written the story so that only Ripley's crashed on Fury while the others didn't.
No Hicks. No Newt. No pointless deaths. Ripley gets her solo adventure. Mission accomplished.
Any of the above works really. The truth is, and I've said it before, the Aliens series is not about a pre-set final
DESTINATION where the story needs to end up because that is how it was written in stone somewhere. It is a
Spoiler
JOURNEY
that could go in many different directions. All of which are valid.
Some will please the masses, others, ehem, Alien 3, will not.
I'm thinking a death of Hicks scene would be similar to a certain fellow getting his brains bashed in issue 100 of Walking Dead if anyone is familiar with that panel lol.
Or big twist. Ripley gets her skull renovated and Hicks now fills her role of being a leader, evading rape, and a sacrifice. Hicks takes Bishop II into the lead with him ala Purvis in AR. The queen burster rips through both of them as they fall. Bishop II gets the sample he wanted. Hicks whispers "Ooohrah to ashes" into his ears as the molten metal engulfs them. Turk arrives at that fateful moment, collapsing to his knees as WY Mercs close in.
Fast forward to 2013 (our new Alien 3 changed the future) and A:CM releases to critical praise (O'Neal dies in mission 1). Turk becomes as popular as Master Chief and we get yearly A:CM releases and everybody but AVPgalaxy bitches about too many Alien games saturating the market. Everything is copacetic.
I've never really speculated on the what ifs too much, but it's an entertaining exercise lol. Hicks saying Oorrah to ashes is actually the worst possible scenario imaginable.
Maybe not the worst, but definitely top three.
Quote from: razeak on Aug 13, 2019, 01:58:35 AM
I'm thinking a death of Hicks scene would be similar to a certain fellow getting his brains bashed in issue 100 of Walking Dead if anyone is familiar with that panel lol.
Or big twist. Ripley gets her skull renovated and Hicks now fills her role of being a leader, evading rape, and a sacrifice. Hicks takes Bishop II into the lead with him ala Purvis in AR. The queen burster rips through both of them as they fall. Bishop II gets the sample he wanted. Hicks whispers "Ooohrah to ashes" into his ears as the molten metal engulfs them. Turk arrives at that fateful moment, collapsing to his knees as WY Mercs close in.
Fast forward to 2013 (our new Alien 3 changed the future) and A:CM releases to critical praise (O'Neal dies in mission 1). Turk becomes as popular as Master Chief and we get yearly A:CM releases and everybody but AVPgalaxy bitches about too many Alien games saturating the market. Everything is copacetic.
I've never really speculated on the what ifs too much, but it's an entertaining exercise lol. Hicks saying Oorrah to ashes is actually the worst possible scenario imaginable.
(https://i.imgur.com/y4fXQEg.jpg)
lol
He forgot to add the time traveling Predator Killer Newt to the story though.
According to the totally trustworthy superintendent. And frankly, only the officially canon entry is valid. The film.
But did it have to be that way?
#Whinge, I think is the term.
But quoting yourself gets really old real fast y'know?
So I'll say, yes and no considering the circumstances.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Aug 13, 2019, 04:12:36 AMBut quoting yourself gets really old real fast y'know?
Saves time. Plus, it links back to the discussion where I said it originally. It's a win-win. Sorry if you don't like it.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 12, 2019, 03:55:34 PM
Hell, they could have given each cryotube its own personal escape pod and written the story so that only Ripley's crashed on Fury while the others didn't.
No Hicks. No Newt. No pointless deaths. Ripley gets her solo adventure. Mission accomplished.
</Alien3-debate>
Flawless victory, LT.
Alien 3 would be better if only they just changed pretty much everything about it...
Quote from: SM on Aug 13, 2019, 09:55:51 AM
Alien 3 would be better if only they just changed pretty much everything about it...
Naw man, A3 is brilliant!
(That was sarcasm.)
What ifs will always come if a film is generally considered disappointing and there are people who felt let down about it. Yes, it doesn't help when Sigourney is one of those people, but as long as there are movie fans who love Alien and Aliens, Alien3 what ifs will always be. It's therapeutic.
They always could have filmed Eric Red's script...
I never red Eric Red's Alien3 script. Is it any good?
I'm a big fan of his Near Dark, and I absolutely love The Hitcher.
Quote from: Samhain13 on Aug 13, 2019, 02:51:00 AM
He forgot to add the time traveling Predator Killer Newt to the story though.
I left the door open though. Turk, created in 2013, was written into a movie in 1993 that changed the future....Terminator paradox ftw.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Aug 13, 2019, 01:26:30 PM
I never red Eric Red's Alien3 script. Is it any good?
Lol. No.
Even Eric Red considers it a POS. Of the Alien 3 scripts, it's easily the worse.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 13, 2019, 02:00:52 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Aug 13, 2019, 01:26:30 PM
I never red Eric Red's Alien3 script. Is it any good?
Lol. No.
Even Eric Red considers it a POS. Of the Alien 3 scripts, it's easily the worse.
Sounds like a must-read then. ;D
Oh I definitely recommend reading it when you find yourself with an hour or so to spare!
An hour and a beer it would seem! ;D
From what I heard, it's a roller coaster of ridiculousness, you'll certainly have fun with it.
Oh it's a special experience, in all the worst ways.
Why does all this make me want to read it more?
Four words:
Zero
Gravity
Sex
Scene
Quote from: SiL on Aug 13, 2019, 10:26:58 PM
Four words:
Zero
Gravity
Sex
Scene
Well, there was that.
Quote from: SiL on Aug 13, 2019, 10:26:58 PM
Four words:
Zero
Gravity
Sex
Scene
(https://i.imgur.com/uXmtDHM.jpg)
"Yeah baby" (Grunt) "Say my name" (Fart) "Aw God" (After-fart).."oh my Goooaaaa!" (Chicken beak bursts through chest)
Quote from: Huggs on Aug 13, 2019, 11:04:23 PM
"Yeah baby" (Grunt) "Say my name" (Fart) "Aw God" (After-fart).."oh my Goooaaaa!" (Chicken beak bursts through chest)
I tried to avoid this thread . . . I really, really tried . . . but I regularly read Huggs's posts . . .
What's an after-fart? And do I want to know?
Quote from: TheSailingRabbit on Aug 14, 2019, 12:03:33 AM
What's an after-fart? And do I want to know?
"A small emission of flatus, often harmless and non-noxious. Normally expelled immediately following the recovery period, during which the anus relaxes post-large fart. After-farts are most often bubbly or squeeky in tone, and typically register at or above an 8 on the Flatial Tonus Scale".
Quote from: Huggs on Aug 14, 2019, 12:20:37 AM
Quote from: TheSailingRabbit on Aug 14, 2019, 12:03:33 AM
What's an after-fart? And do I want to know?
"A small emission of flatus, often harmless and non-noxious. Normally expelled immediately following the recovery period, during which the anus relaxes post-large fart. After-farts are most often bubbly or squeeky in tone, and typically register at or above an 8 on the Flatial Tonus Scale".
. . . I'm very sorry, Hicks.
Quote from: TheSailingRabbit on Aug 14, 2019, 12:03:33 AM
Quote from: Huggs on Aug 13, 2019, 11:04:23 PM
"Yeah baby" (Grunt) "Say my name" (Fart) "Aw God" (After-fart).."oh my Goooaaaa!" (Chicken beak bursts through chest)
I tried to avoid this thread . . . I really, really tried . . . but I regularly read Huggs's posts . . .
What's an after-fart? And do I want to know?
Look up 'follow through' on Urban Dictionary.
Quote from: TheSailingRabbit on Aug 14, 2019, 12:23:13 AM
Quote from: Huggs on Aug 14, 2019, 12:20:37 AM
Quote from: TheSailingRabbit on Aug 14, 2019, 12:03:33 AM
What's an after-fart? And do I want to know?
"A small emission of flatus, often harmless and non-noxious. Normally expelled immediately following the recovery period, during which the anus relaxes post-large fart. After-farts are most often bubbly or squeeky in tone, and typically register at or above an 8 on the Flatial Tonus Scale".
. . . I'm very sorry, Hicks.
You released the Kraken.
There goes your invite to the Rolston interview extravaganza!
Quote from: SiL on Aug 13, 2019, 10:26:58 PM
Four words:
Zero
Gravity
Sex
Scene
You know I was just listening to the audio book of Alien earlier in the week and Parker tells a story in that about zero-G sex. It's been in here all along!!
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Aug 14, 2019, 01:12:09 AM
There goes your invite to the Rolston interview extravaganza!
I'm not that big of a dick.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Aug 12, 2019, 02:42:35 PM
I really don't get it, complaining about various aspects of the film's real issues I understand, even if I disagree (pacing, composition, not empathising, editing) but I never seen the deaths of two/three of the most cliché characters in cinema to be one of them.
I think it boils down to people like the idea of ripley and newt and hicks in their eyes would become a family in the sequel and later go and kick aliens asses together as a super family and be immune to getting killed and wasnt wanting the series to remain horror but action movies after Aliens. Most fans of Aliens from my experience just to see more of Ripley and Hicks, more marines and weapons fighting even more xenomorphs and new versions of it, aliens v2. Wasnt there even a script for Alien 3 made with just that and some battle scene with hundreds of powerloaders and alien queens and marines and xenos battling it out? xD
Pretty much that is what I hear most fans wanted and well myself too when I was 10 years old.
Now: Hell no, prefer what Alien 3 did actually and the idea of a super family fighting aliens went out the window.
Quote from: judge death on Aug 14, 2019, 06:17:27 PM
I think it boils down to people like the idea of ripley and newt and hicks in their eyes would become a family in the sequel and later go and kick aliens asses together as a super family and be immune to getting killed and wasnt wanting the series to remain horror but action movies after Aliens.
I see this assumed a lot, but none of the unmade
Aliens sequels (alternate scripts, DH comics) portrayed Newt, Hicks and Ripley as an anti-Alien fighting family. Most people say they were mad about
how the characters were killed off (during the credits after one of the more infamous ass-pulls in recent film history), not that they died.
Most fan stories I read on deviantart and other sites have however most stories about Ripley and hicks and newt being a family and later either weyland yutani or xenomorphs stop their happy lifes.
But yeah besides that one with hundreds of power loaders, not too many movie scripts have the family idea, thankfully.
Quote from: Valaquen on Aug 14, 2019, 06:31:40 PM
Quote from: judge death on Aug 14, 2019, 06:17:27 PM
I think it boils down to people like the idea of ripley and newt and hicks in their eyes would become a family in the sequel and later go and kick aliens asses together as a super family and be immune to getting killed and wasnt wanting the series to remain horror but action movies after Aliens.
I see this assumed a lot, but none of the unmade Aliens sequels (alternate scripts, DH comics) portrayed Newt, Hicks and Ripley as an anti-Alien fighting family. Most people say they were mad about how the characters were killed off (during the credits after one of the more infamous ass-pulls in recent film history), not that they died.
Yep, that's the reason as I see it. And definitely not the whole people just want a dumb Alien Ass Kicking Super Family to diminish any real criticisms angle.
Alien 3's opening alone is tremendously flawed regardless who dies. Killing off characters cold during the opening credits, Hicks, Newt or entirely someone else embodies nothing for the audience except faceless, empty, meaningless, emotionless deaths. Then the viewer is forced to endure the impact of these meaningless deaths as meaningful for a long duration, even though they have built absolutely zero percent of an emotional connection to the audience within this film they're watching.
Who are we grieving for? We hope you watched Aliens recently! But hopefully not too many times that you think it was a disservice to them! Such an important event thrown away in opening credit flashes is just jarring and doesn't serve your narrative the best, regardless if there was behind-the-scenes reasons why you had to do it.
Quote from: judge death on Aug 14, 2019, 06:39:03 PM
Most fan stories I read on deviantart
Well there's your problem.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 14, 2019, 08:27:09 PM
Quote from: judge death on Aug 14, 2019, 06:39:03 PM
Most fan stories I read on deviantart
Well there's your problem.
I put a lot of heart and soul into my fanfiction, but at the end of the day, it's fanfiction, written by a singular person. That singular person, no matter how good, bad, or horrendously ugly their fanfiction is, does not represent the fanbase as a whole.
Quote from: TheSailingRabbit on Aug 14, 2019, 08:40:54 PM
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 14, 2019, 08:27:09 PM
Quote from: judge death on Aug 14, 2019, 06:39:03 PM
Most fan stories I read on deviantart
Well there's your problem.
I put a lot of heart and soul into my fanfiction, but at the end of the day, it's fanfiction, written by a singular person. That singular person, no matter how good, bad, or horrendously ugly their fanfiction is, does not represent the fanbase as a whole.
A hell of a lot of it is wish-fulfillment, so of course it's where you'll find the Happy Families stuff for Aliens. I didn't say anything about quality.
I definitely still want to see the core unit of Ripley, Hicks, and Newt together on an adventure as Newt gets old, BUT I never wanted, nor do I want that perfect family image of the three of them settling down somewhere. I'm much more into the dysfunctional reunion as presented in Aliens Book 1 from Dark Horse Comics circa 1988. That made sense at least from the family unit perspective.
People can say what they want, but as someone who lived through the time the comics were being published post newt and hicks, MANY people wanted what judge said.
Those three were going to become the bug killing jedi of the Alien verse.
I didn't have the years of attachment to the characters that people did. I was 7 when Alien 3 came out and didn't watch either of the sequels until I was ten and the original sometimes later. This was the VHS era and mass distribution of film wasn't like it is now. At least where I lived. Plenty of movies to rent, but not very many to own.
So despite Aliens being my favorite movie for much of a decade, it still didn't quite kick me in the nuts like it did people who watched Aliens in 86 (I was one year old) and then waited 7 years for those characters to be killed off.
As long as you don't look too closely at Newt being abandoned by both her 'parents'.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Aug 14, 2019, 11:47:04 PM
People can say what they want, but as someone who lived through the time the comics were being published post newt and hicks, MANY people wanted what judge said.
Those three were going to become the bug killing jedi of the Alien verse.
I didn't have the years of attachment to the characters that people did. I was when Alien 3 came out and didn't watch the sequels until I was ten and the original sometimes later.
So despite Aliens being my favorite movie for much of a decade, it still didn't quite kick me in the nuts like it did people who watched Aliens in 86 (I was one year old) and then waited 7 years for those characters to be killed off.
True dis.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Aug 14, 2019, 11:47:04 PM
People can say what they want, but as someone who lived through the time the comics were being published post newt and hicks, MANY people wanted what judge said.
Those three were going to become the bug killing jedi of the Alien verse.
I didn't have the years of attachment to the characters that people did. I was when Alien 3 came out and didn't watch the sequels until I was ten and the original sometimes later.
So despite Aliens being my favorite movie for much of a decade, it still didn't quite kick me in the nuts like it did people who watched Aliens in 86 (I was one year old) and then waited 7 years for those characters to be killed off.
My cojones are still smarting..
Quote from: SM on Aug 14, 2019, 11:58:06 PM
As long as you don't look too closely at Newt being abandoned by both her 'parents'.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Aug 14, 2019, 11:47:04 PM
People can say what they want, but as someone who lived through the time the comics were being published post newt and hicks, MANY people wanted what judge said.
Those three were going to become the bug killing jedi of the Alien verse.
I didn't have the years of attachment to the characters that people did. I was when Alien 3 came out and didn't watch the sequels until I was ten and the original sometimes later.
So despite Aliens being my favorite movie for much of a decade, it still didn't quite kick me in the nuts like it did people who watched Aliens in 86 (I was one year old) and then waited 7 years for those characters to be killed off.
True dis.
I'm talking purely from all the write in columns in the back of the individual issues that were unhappy about the Alien 3 deaths of Hicks and Newt.
I think most people realized the comics were unofficial sequels, so they expected the film to rewrite the comics anyways (hence people not being that upset at that separation). People were mad for years afterwards at Alien 3.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Aug 15, 2019, 01:22:34 AM
Quote from: SM on Aug 14, 2019, 11:58:06 PM
As long as you don't look too closely at Newt being abandoned by both her 'parents'.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Aug 14, 2019, 11:47:04 PM
People can say what they want, but as someone who lived through the time the comics were being published post newt and hicks, MANY people wanted what judge said.
Those three were going to become the bug killing jedi of the Alien verse.
I didn't have the years of attachment to the characters that people did. I was when Alien 3 came out and didn't watch the sequels until I was ten and the original sometimes later.
So despite Aliens being my favorite movie for much of a decade, it still didn't quite kick me in the nuts like it did people who watched Aliens in 86 (I was one year old) and then waited 7 years for those characters to be killed off.
True dis.
I'm talking purely from all the write in columns in the back of the individual issues that were unhappy about the Alien 3 deaths of Hicks and Newt.
I think most people realized the comics were unofficial sequels, so they expected the film to rewrite the comics anyways (hence people not being that upset at that separation). People were mad for years afterwards.
I was too young to realize that the comics didn't really matter. I thought what was written was what would eventually end up on screen in some way. The let down was really something else.
I didn't collect the alien issues until way after I had seen the films.
It has been really the only thing I have ever collected.
Yeah comics have never set my expectations in films but I guess it might fall that way if you're really young.
Mark Verheiden understood best IMO where the series should go. Mostly. He built the character of Hicks into one of my favourite comic book heroes ever.
And then Perry ruined him by having him come onto Newt.
Hey that was Wilks. Completely different guy. :P
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 15, 2019, 03:04:34 PM
And then Perry ruined him by having him come onto Newt.
Wow, did that really happen? I haven't read those novels in decades and I just don't recall that. Was it a poor interpretation of Newt's dream in the first issue of the Beauvais series?
QuotePeople can say what they want, but as someone who lived through the time the comics were being published post newt and hicks, MANY people wanted what judge said.
Those three were going to become the bug killing jedi of the Alien verse.
Glad to hear this and Im not the only one who noticed that and yeah the comics also in late 80s and early 90s made Hicks and Newt and Ripley into anti alien heroes, maybe not a happy family but they always foudn eachother and went out on adventures together. oh well :P
Unlike the mega fans like us, the majority of film fans of the world didn't turn to comics for continuing adventures though, and therefore had no such expectations.
It's always about execution. Even where kiddies are concerned, you can even kill off their beloved animal main characters and superhero main characters and the little folk will be fine with it, provided it's done well.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 15, 2019, 03:39:50 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 15, 2019, 03:04:34 PM
And then Perry ruined him by having him come onto Newt.
Wow, did that really happen? I haven't read those novels in decades and I just don't recall that. Was it a poor interpretation of Newt's dream in the first issue of the Beauvais series?
Yeah, I thought it was only a dream. At least, it was when it was Hicks and Newt. Maybe Perry changed it for Wilks and Billie?
There's a very brief moment of sexual tension when Wilks and Billie are donning space suits on the Macarthur and Billie is having problems with the crotch plate. I wouldn't call it a 'come on.' It's an acknowledgement that both of them have been thinking about it.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 15, 2019, 02:24:20 PM
Mark Verheiden understood best IMO where the series should go. Mostly. He built the character of Hicks into one of my favourite comic book heroes ever.
Then he was restored to his rightful place as sidekick in Earth War.
Did the novel include Wilks' opinion on the Sulaco's name?
Nah. The Female War novel often departs from the comic.
I imagine the novel has better art too.
Had a good cover.
Quote from: SM on Aug 15, 2019, 10:28:11 PM
There's a very brief moment of sexual tension when Wilks and Billie are donning space suits on the Macarthur and Billie is having problems with the crotch plate. I wouldn't call it a 'come on.' It's an acknowledgement that both of them have been thinking about it.
Then their attraction became a whole plot point in Female War. I really hated that angle.
Quote from: SM on Aug 16, 2019, 12:19:12 AM
Had a good cover.
I loved both of the covers for Female War. But the Dorman one of the Queen in the flames is fantastic.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/aliens-female-war-review-01.jpg)
Marines want to eat crayons and dick down anything.
Quote
Then their attraction became a whole plot point in Female War. I really hated that angle.
Don't remember that. I do remember they were both shagging other people though.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 16, 2019, 07:28:22 AM
Quote from: SM on Aug 16, 2019, 12:19:12 AM
Had a good cover.
I loved both of the covers for Female War. But the Dorman one of the Queen in the flames is fantastic.
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/aliens-female-war-review-01.jpg
Still got that one.
Quote from: SM on Aug 16, 2019, 11:22:52 PM
Quote
Then their attraction became a whole plot point in Female War. I really hated that angle.
Don't remember that. I do remember they were both shagging other people though.
Yeah, she was bonking that
Spoiler
synthetic marine
He was left behind at Third Base.
Spoiler
Billie was bonking Brewster and Wilks was bonking Leslie Elliott. The brief moment of sexual tension pops up a couple of times in Female War when both Billie and Wilks privately ponder on the nature of their relationship.
Quote from: SM on Aug 16, 2019, 11:22:52 PM
Quote
Then their attraction became a whole plot point in Female War. I really hated that angle.
Don't remember that. I do remember they were both shagging other people though.
Maybe I'm blowing it up a bit in my memory. I just hated it that much.
Possibly. I flipped through it the other day, and there's a couple of points where Wilks is wondering if his feelings are paternal or something more. And Billie wonders what it would be like with Wilks, but she's also unsure of the nature of their bond. I don't think it's prominent enough to call it a plot point though.
That's fair. It felt like it came out of left-field in Nightmare Asylum and I just disliked it that much since that it stuck in my memory.
I don't recall that in the book, though my recall of what I read a quarter century ago is a bit fuzzy. Anyway, it's a really silly direction to take the characters in. Hicks was basically the equivalent of Captain America in Aliens. That's why he's such an admirable character. Quiet, reserved, yet with a strength that comes out under pressure. Truly one of the great movie heroes of all time.
I actually thought him a little more ruthless with the insult to Burke and attempted execution right before the ops battle.
Hicks was a sidekick.
He wouldn't have executed Burke if Ripley objected.
Yes, but at his base he would have.
His what now?
I have no doubt that Hicks would waste Burke, but Ripley was about to talk him down before the Aliens showed up. I'm sure cooler heads would have prevailed, but I'm curious how Gorman would have treated him after that.
He would've wisely continued to defer to Ripley.
Quote from: SM on Aug 20, 2019, 02:28:55 AM
His what now?
His most base instinct was to waste Burke. Which he would've done had Ripley not been around.
Not exactly Geneva convention approved.
In his defense, Burke was a rat f**k son-of-a-bitch.
Burke would tried to back stab them the first chance he got. If Ripley had been foolish to take him back with them she would have doomed them all.
Depends on how many Marines they had left. Had the Aliens stayed at the processer and made it back with the crew they had left they could've managed him.
If it would've been down to the crew at the end with no standing Marines..................probably not.
Perfect-Organism says Hicks was quiet and reserved, but that in no way says he was a pacifist. I would also say quiet and reserved (at the start) , but also reluctant, as in, reluctant for leadership or responsibility. That bit where Ripley points out to Burke that Hicks is the successor in the chain of command, and Hicks's shoulders slump and he sighs so heavily - priceless!
I've always imagined him as coasting through his time, lack of ambition holding him back from further promotion. Ricco Ross says after 2weeks of James Remar he could barely recognise Hicks in what Biehn was doing with the character. Remar was forthright and dominant; Biehn was low key and softly spoken, and it took Ross a while to understand Biehn's acting choices and overall interpretation. I think we lucked out there.
TC
Quote from: Kimarhi on Aug 20, 2019, 03:21:04 AM
Quote from: SM on Aug 20, 2019, 02:28:55 AM
His what now?
His most base instinct was to waste Burke. Which he would've done had Ripley not been around.
Not exactly Geneva convention approved.
Oh, right.
Yeah probably.
There are the Geneva Conventions, and then there are situations where your squad got decimated light years away from support, and you have dozens of nightmare creatures wanting to snack on you and then you have a saboteur to boot. Survival will trump the rules when you are in extenuating circumstances. From Hicks POV, Burke might as well have been pointing a gun at him and the others.
Quote from: razeak on Aug 20, 2019, 06:47:12 PM
There are the Geneva Conventions, and then there are situations where your squad got decimated light years away from support, and you have dozens of nightmare creatures wanting to snack on you and then you have a saboteur to boot. Survival will trump the rules when you are in extenuating circumstances. From Hicks POV, Burke might as well have been pointing a gun at him and the others.
I don't disagree, but it's not Captain America approved.
The place was about to go nuclear.
There'd be no evidence left.
Quote from: TC on Aug 20, 2019, 03:59:02 AM
Perfect-Organism says Hicks was quiet and reserved, but that in no way says he was a pacifist. I would also say quiet and reserved (at the start) , but also reluctant, as in, reluctant for leadership or responsibility. That bit where Ripley points out to Burke that Hicks is the successor in the chain of command, and Hicks's shoulders slump and he sighs so heavily - priceless!
I've always imagined him as coasting through his time, lack of ambition holding him back from further promotion. Ricco Ross says after 2weeks of James Remar he could barely recognise Hicks in what Biehn was doing with the character. Remar was forthright and dominant; Biehn was low key and softly spoken, and it took Ross a while to understand Biehn's acting choices and overall interpretation. I think we lucked out there.
TC
You got it. Hicks was played brilliantly by Biehn. Literally one of the best action characters I've seen. He has no patience for BS. Is so at ease with himself he can fall asleep during a space drop, yet that doesn't mean he is incompetent. He always rises to the occasion without any Mach bravado. Just all serious. All business. There are so many layers to the character and to Biehn's performance. You see it furthered in Coffey in the Abyss, but after that, he never really gets a chance to shine in a big role. It really was a terrible loss all around that Biehn didn't get a chance to reprise his role. Hopefully that chance will come soon.
Quote from: Huggs on Aug 20, 2019, 11:34:44 PM
The place was about to go nuclear.
There'd be no evidence left.
Not what I'm saying. Not arguing he could've got away with it. Arguing that he wasn't as clean cut good guy as he's often remembered as.
Oh I was just throwing that out there for the heck of it.
Life isn't nice and neither is Alien 3. F**king love that movie. ;D
It might not be what people wanted. But it's what Alien needed.
It needed to fail with critics and fans and not make much money.
And then it needed an extended cut.
See? There was a plan all along.
It needed ACM to fix it.
Quote from: SM on Aug 29, 2019, 02:13:24 AM
It needed to fail with critics and fans and not make much money.
:laugh:
Zing! Well said.
Retcon it.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 29, 2019, 03:38:13 AM
Quote from: SM on Aug 29, 2019, 02:13:24 AM
It needed to fail with critics and fans and not make much money.
:laugh:
Zing! Well said.
Retcon it.
Just because they make another movie doesn't mean it ain't still the true and holy gospel.
(https://78.media.tumblr.com/9844ddb0e65fac7f3ba3eb4c7d1266b9/tumblr_o72r6robSX1vtymcko3_500.gif)
That's revisionist cinematography.
(https://cdn.quotesgram.com/small/72/64/116198863-Robert-in-Tropic-Thunder-robert-downey-jr-4499982-720-480.jpg)
Alien 3 still loves you.
;D