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Do you thing the Aliens can envolve (millions of years I guess) enough to developing tool use, sophisticated communication, creative expression through art and even complex societies?

Dan O'Bannon said yes.

Quote from: SiL on Mar 29, 2022, 12:41:24 AM
Dan O'Bannon said yes.

Oh yeah, his original idea was that the Space Jockey had nothing to do with the Alien other than being an unlucky victim prior to the encounter with the humans. A civilization developed by a sapien species of ancient parasites, whose adolescent state is a deadly beast.

With that in mind, I was thinking that if we're talking about new ideas for movies, I think this one qualifies as that. I mean, Prometheus is AVP's pretty sister, and while Covenant took a new, albeit controversial, direction with the Alien, at the end of the day it's just another movie where damn humans intercept a signal, bad things happen, licensed ripoff happens and new variants of the same monster see the light of day once again from Aliens to Prometheus.  :P

But when was the last time someone really reimagined the Alien? In any case, how an idea works depends on many factors, from execution to format. But it's interesting to think about it. 🤔

At its most basic level, they already are 'civilised', in the sense that they defer their individual needs for the betterment of their hive society. Like ants and termites, they delegate tasks, build structures, and used other organisms for their own benefit as well.

When you start bringing notions of 'sophisticated culture' into the equation, you start buying into the colonial era idea of 'civilised' peoples, which was little more than a way to claim superiority and justify brutality. In that respect, Ripley was right to compare them favourably to people like Burke...

I think this is canon, soooo yes!!!

Quote from: The Necronoir on Apr 09, 2022, 11:02:39 AM
At its most basic level, they already are 'civilised', in the sense that they defer their individual needs for the betterment of their hive society. Like ants and termites, they delegate tasks, build structures, and used other organisms for their own benefit as well.

When you start bringing notions of 'sophisticated culture' into the equation, you start buying into the colonial era idea of 'civilised' peoples, which was little more than a way to claim superiority and justify brutality. In that respect, Ripley was right to compare them favourably to people like Burke...

All of the above, our conception of intelligence's coloured by our perception, our biases.

I've never liked the idea of them becoming anything like us.  So I guess it depends on our take of civilization. 

Hard to imagine an Alien running home from the department of capturing humans office to pick up baby facehugger from pre implantation school before mama queen comes home from being at the egg factory all day. 

They can very well develop into a proper civilization. In fact the novel that im trying to work on depicts that happening far down the line. I like the idea of this being possible. They can become much more than what they are labeled and designed as.

Leave that to The Perfected honestly, again they are already an advanced civilisation just one beyond our biases, our conceptions of intelligence.

I think there could be an evolution of the species of some kind. But the Aliens we all know are aggressive survivors. I can't see that version being anything other than what they are.

I think it would diminish them, but if you want that flavour, the Perfected do exist. Or even Blue Marsalis.

Quote from: The Necronoir on Apr 09, 2022, 11:02:39 AMWhen you start bringing notions of 'sophisticated culture' into the equation, you start buying into the colonial era idea of 'civilised' peoples, which was little more than a way to claim superiority and justify brutality. In that respect, Ripley was right to compare them favourably to people like Burke...

That'a a very dim and narrow view of it. Nobody is saying anything even remotely hinting at colonialism or manifest destiny here.


It is true that they have a society, and a social order.

What we have not seen is a technological element. For all we know, taking ALien on its own without the influence of the other films, the Jockey could have been a usurper and the Derelict could have belonged to the Aliens.

I can see a very terrifying nightmare scenario where, if left to their own device long enough, an Alien hive could begin to build/grow, biomechanoid technology. Egg ships similar to the Derelict that are sent to other planets to perpetuate the species and grow the Alien civilization.

Maybe all we've ever seen are just the first generation. Even in Aliens. What if a hive existed for a year or two? We've never seen that. Outside of the EU, I mean.

Quote from: OpenMaw on Sep 17, 2022, 10:01:39 PMI can see a very terrifying nightmare scenario where, if left to their own device long enough, an Alien hive could begin to build/grow, biomechanoid technology. Egg ships similar to the Derelict that are sent to other planets to perpetuate the species and grow the Alien civilization.

Maybe all we've ever seen are just the first generation. Even in Aliens. What if a hive existed for a year or two? We've never seen that. Outside of the EU, I mean.

That sounds like utterly and completely definitive Alien plot! :o I mean think of the possibilities! ;D  8) It also fits in with Giger's Alien being the 'future rather than an ancient mystery' . I think I read that mantra in a user profile. Still, cosmic horror could work just as well, especially if we've only seen the tip of the Alien Iceberg as a species.

Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Sep 18, 2022, 12:14:47 AMThat sounds like utterly and completely definitive Alien plot! :o I mean think of the possibilities! ;D  8) It also fits in with Giger's Alien being the 'future rather than an ancient mystery' . I think I read that mantra in a user profile. Still, cosmic horror could work just as well, especially if we've only seen the tip of the Alien Iceberg as a species.

Ever since I saw Independence Day I thought something like that could be the evolution of the Alien. Maybe not precisely that, but some of the notions at play in that movie, and certainly some of the alien art design, really fit with the ideas inherit to the Alien of the first two films. Biomechanoid civilization, where being and machinery are intertwined and lost within one another.

I could see an "awakening the dragon" type of scenario in a movie. Certainly that is what I really hoped for with Prometheus.

The view of technology as superior to biology's a human's biased point of view.

I wouldn't want to see xenos advance much from what they are right now. It would go against their spirit.

Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Sep 19, 2022, 06:56:26 PMThe view of technology as superior to biology's a human's biased point of view.

Considering that everything thus far has shown us technology keeps biology safe and alive and far more comfortable over greater periods of time... I think the notion is well founded. It is our technology that has allowed us not just to dominate the planet and become the only Apex predator on it, but to actually start undoing the damage we've done along the way. I don't see a civilization that is utterly lacking in technology making those leaps. For the aliens their biggest weakness is they are ultimately at the mercy of their hosts to get them from place to place.

Quote from: Huntsman on Sep 20, 2022, 08:37:17 AMI wouldn't want to see xenos advance much from what they are right now. It would go against their spirit.

I totally agree.

That's if you think making said leap's even good in the first place though, it depends what the Alien wants, if it even wants.