Poll
Question:
Do you like dreads as part of Predalien design?
Option 1: Yay
votes: 37
Option 2: Nay
votes: 33
Option 3: No Predalien
votes: 4
Personally, I love dreads in Predalien's design. I think it's make it looking realy cool, especially in movement and I don't care about any logical explanation behind it, Dreads make that creature really unigue one and mandibles are not enough for me.
But i'm curious to know what majority's opinion is. You saw the the poll, just hit "Yes" or "No" option and let's see how it goes !
Yes for dreads.
It's just nobody ever went and did the obvious solution and so they just kind of flop about or give it an odd hairline. A frill shaped like the Predator skull (or even Super Predator head outright) and putting them on like you would the standard Predator. It's that simple. Give it a frill like triceratops and put the dreads behind it like the Predator.
3-2
Dreads in the Lead!! Who would have thought??
#TEAMDREAD
Sure, I like dreads, so I don't really mind them on the Predalien. But I do think most of the designs it's had would look better without them. It's a tricky business to stick dangly parts onto the Alien's phallic head. Especially when they're situated along the back of the head like Chet or the Abomination, it just looks weird. I think the one from the 2016/2017 Alien/Predator/Judge Dredd crossover has my favorite dread implementation, with a patch of dreads coming out right behind the face.
Spoiler
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/avp/images/c/cd/Reinst%C3%B6t%27s_Predalien.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20180723110325)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/32/b1/c8/32b1c82a087cd01cd3a20e9321f60545.jpg)
(https://monsterlegacy.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/avprpredalienmandiblesextn.jpg)
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/aliens/images/6/69/The_Predator_fighting_the_Predalien_in_Gunnison.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/278?cb=20110712040813)
Pro dreads in the lead?
It must not be >:(
No dreads please
Dreads on a predalien are fine, but could've been implemented better.
But it's a defining characteristic of the predator species, and should carry over to some degree.
"These are dreads man, truly dreads".
Quote from: Huggs on May 14, 2019, 02:21:39 AM
"These are dreads man, truly dreads".
(https://media.giphy.com/media/lu628iLCen2IE/giphy.gif)
Definitely pro-dread, I think they look cool and they're really easy visual shorthand that it's a Predalien.
The mouth is the first thing I see that defines the PredAlien for me. No dreads.
Trying to think of my favorite design but I don't really know. *gets on google*
As a matter of preference, no, but I don't mind them when they're well done -- which was once, with Dorman's art and the AvP: War variant.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on May 13, 2019, 07:54:26 PM
(https://monsterlegacy.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/avprpredalienmandiblesextn.jpg)
Why they didn't show this feature off more in the movie I don't know, it's awesome.
As boring as it sounds I would like a design that is not so far from Giger's Alien and without dreadlocks. That said, I only want the Predator's mandibles as a legacy.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi66.tinypic.com%2F1252684.jpg&hash=73fd8a91cd79a4c567e64110d5120e7f26195c93)
^ second that.
I don't despise the dread look, but it doesn't "need" them imo.
The problem with Chets look was the head was a bit to small which made them more pronounced than they needed to be
I believe part of the problem as well with Chet was that the dreads came from Alien 3, so they had never been designed for the Predalien which is part of why it looks so awkward on it.
The art book for AVP-R does have some pretty good concept art for Chet and many of them include dreads. It's to me anyways one of those things that with a different crest or dread application and or placement would've made all the difference. Chet seemed to me pretty late-game development and despite the time they say they got, I wouldn't be surprised if they had to scramble for it which is why Chet looked the way it did. It also didn't help that putting "hair" on an Alien was new territory for the franchise.
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on May 14, 2019, 12:43:22 PM
As boring as it sounds I would like a design that is not so far from Giger's Alien and without dreadlocks. That said, I only want the Predator's mandibles as a legacy.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi66.tinypic.com%2F1252684.jpg&hash=73fd8a91cd79a4c567e64110d5120e7f26195c93)
This design works for me because it's actually creepy. The problem with Predaliens is that they oftentimes end up looking goofy. Case in point: AvP R.
Quote from: JokersWarPig on May 14, 2019, 02:04:59 PM
I don't despise the dread look, but it doesn't "need" them imo.
The problem with Chets look was the head was a bit to small which made them more pronounced than they needed to be
I couldn't disagree more. I've always thought the head was humorously large. Always looked like the whole thing was about to topple over.
Quote from: SuperiorIronman on May 14, 2019, 02:49:18 PM
I believe part of the problem as well with Chet was that the dreads came from Alien 3, so they had never been designed for the Predalien which is part of why it looks so awkward on it.
Huh? ??? I think I missed my guess on this one, but I didn't know about that at all.
Small correction; the Alien 3 rod puppet tail was used on the maquette and it transitioned onto the full-sized Predalien. However it was indeed something not initially meant for Chet.
It's mentioned in the BTS video for AVP-R and it's mentioned in "Inside the monster shop".
Now it's probably not specifically those tail casts used for Chet (I believe they are too small for that but I could be wrong), but the design carried over and are definitely modified for usage in AVP-R.
Quote from: SuperiorIronman on May 14, 2019, 03:42:36 PM
Small correction; the Alien 3 rod puppet tail was used on the maquette and it transitioned onto the full-sized Predalien. However it was indeed something not initially meant for Chet.
It's mentioned in the BTS video for AVP-R and it's mentioned in "Inside the monster shop".
Now it's probably not specifically those tail casts used for Chet (I believe they are too small for that but I could be wrong), but the design carried over and are definitely modified for usage in AVP-R.
I didn't know that either but now looking at Chet's head i can definetly see it.
Quote from: The Old One on May 14, 2019, 07:32:52 PM
No. It's just my subjective opinion
Any other answer is possible
I think you wanted to say this ^^^, didn't you?
No. Always no.
Any other answer is incorrect.
Quote from: SiL on May 14, 2019, 12:33:03 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on May 13, 2019, 07:54:26 PM
(https://monsterlegacy.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/avprpredalienmandiblesextn.jpg)
Why they didn't show this feature off more in the movie I don't know, it's awesome.
Indeed.
Quote from: The Old One on May 14, 2019, 07:45:00 PM
No. Always no.
Any other answer is incorrect.
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/3oKIPBBlhUyNTCOL4s/source.gif)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.melonthecake.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F06%2Fgiphy-4.gif&hash=d34e7280f21e18baf75a99af95ab3bd078dae9c0)
Predalien should be in theory easy to design, but everyone wants to go overboard with it instead.
What's upsetting is they ditch Giger's motif in favor of something that doesn't mesh well with the rest.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic1.comicvine.com%2Fuploads%2Foriginal%2F1%2F15659%2F3386904-predalien-avp-duel%25232-cover_art.jpg&hash=33770a3b2403749e049c7f2359c8958ad21d8fe3)
Sometimes things look really cool though.
I don't mind much either way. Most important thing for me in any alien design is biomechanical details and proportions/stance similar to the host.
The dreads themselves were not what bothered me on the bad predalien designs.
Quote from: Monster Man on May 15, 2019, 12:42:16 AM
Predalien should be in theory easy to design, but everyone wants to go overboard with it instead.
I agree that less is more. It just seems obvious enough to me already that something is a Predalien if it has mandibles, so from that perspective the dreadlocks seem like overkill. Plus they create an entire conversation about the genetic traits of a host that crosses over and all that.
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on May 14, 2019, 12:43:22 PM
As boring as it sounds I would like a design that is not so far from Giger's Alien and without dreadlocks. That said, I only want the Predator's mandibles as a legacy.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi66.tinypic.com%2F1252684.jpg&hash=73fd8a91cd79a4c567e64110d5120e7f26195c93)
much better :)
(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/a6cee871-9064-48e7-ba39-fcd60705e2c7/d2wf9az-cdfc2eb5-e21a-40ed-9c91-3687064b9f7a.jpg/v1/fill/w_913,h_876,q_70,strp/predalien_hunting_party_by_abelardo_d2wf9az-pre.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9MTIyOCIsInBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2E2Y2VlODcxLTkwNjQtNDhlNy1iYTM5LWZjZDYwNzA1ZTJjN1wvZDJ3Zjlhei1jZGZjMmViNS1lMjFhLTQwZWQtOWM5MS0zNjg3MDY0YjlmN2EuanBnIiwid2lkdGgiOiI8PTEyODAifV1dLCJhdWQiOlsidXJuOnNlcnZpY2U6aW1hZ2Uub3BlcmF0aW9ucyJdfQ.lpE6OyOv6oPrjwMseFS8k89eetG-9D156ue_RtK1I2g)
God damn Spaghetti is good. I like that. I'd much rather spikes than any dreadlocks.
Quote from: Monster Man on May 22, 2019, 05:05:52 AM
(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/a6cee871-9064-48e7-ba39-fcd60705e2c7/d2wf9az-cdfc2eb5-e21a-40ed-9c91-3687064b9f7a.jpg/v1/fill/w_913,h_876,q_70,strp/predalien_hunting_party_by_abelardo_d2wf9az-pre.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9MTIyOCIsInBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2E2Y2VlODcxLTkwNjQtNDhlNy1iYTM5LWZjZDYwNzA1ZTJjN1wvZDJ3Zjlhei1jZGZjMmViNS1lMjFhLTQwZWQtOWM5MS0zNjg3MDY0YjlmN2EuanBnIiwid2lkdGgiOiI8PTEyODAifV1dLCJhdWQiOlsidXJuOnNlcnZpY2U6aW1hZ2Uub3BlcmF0aW9ucyJdfQ.lpE6OyOv6oPrjwMseFS8k89eetG-9D156ue_RtK1I2g)
Honestly, I don't like that design. Can't say exactly what it is, but it just doesn't fit for me.
Quote from: Stitch on May 22, 2019, 10:06:46 AM
Quote from: Monster Man on May 22, 2019, 05:05:52 AM
(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/a6cee871-9064-48e7-ba39-fcd60705e2c7/d2wf9az-cdfc2eb5-e21a-40ed-9c91-3687064b9f7a.jpg/v1/fill/w_913,h_876,q_70,strp/predalien_hunting_party_by_abelardo_d2wf9az-pre.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9MTIyOCIsInBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2E2Y2VlODcxLTkwNjQtNDhlNy1iYTM5LWZjZDYwNzA1ZTJjN1wvZDJ3Zjlhei1jZGZjMmViNS1lMjFhLTQwZWQtOWM5MS0zNjg3MDY0YjlmN2EuanBnIiwid2lkdGgiOiI8PTEyODAifV1dLCJhdWQiOlsidXJuOnNlcnZpY2U6aW1hZ2Uub3BlcmF0aW9ucyJdfQ.lpE6OyOv6oPrjwMseFS8k89eetG-9D156ue_RtK1I2g)
Honestly, I don't like that design. Can't say exactly what it is, but it just doesn't fit for me.
Agreed.
It's one of the best so far, preferred SB's older PredAlien though.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on May 22, 2019, 08:18:59 AM
God damn Spaghetti is good. I like that. I'd much rather spikes than any dreadlocks.
Yeah, I think spikish looking dreadlocks look more apropriate and blend with biomechanical nature of xeno better
Quote from: Stitch on May 22, 2019, 10:06:46 AM
Quote from: Monster Man on May 22, 2019, 05:05:52 AM
(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/a6cee871-9064-48e7-ba39-fcd60705e2c7/d2wf9az-cdfc2eb5-e21a-40ed-9c91-3687064b9f7a.jpg/v1/fill/w_913,h_876,q_70,strp/predalien_hunting_party_by_abelardo_d2wf9az-pre.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9MTIyOCIsInBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2E2Y2VlODcxLTkwNjQtNDhlNy1iYTM5LWZjZDYwNzA1ZTJjN1wvZDJ3Zjlhei1jZGZjMmViNS1lMjFhLTQwZWQtOWM5MS0zNjg3MDY0YjlmN2EuanBnIiwid2lkdGgiOiI8PTEyODAifV1dLCJhdWQiOlsidXJuOnNlcnZpY2U6aW1hZ2Uub3BlcmF0aW9ucyJdfQ.lpE6OyOv6oPrjwMseFS8k89eetG-9D156ue_RtK1I2g)
Honestly, I don't like that design. Can't say exactly what it is, but it just doesn't fit for me.
My nitpick is that the head is too small for what it is, but everything else is how I expected it to be.
The predalien should honestly look like a big human alien, but because dreads have always been associated with the design they don't bother me. You'd only ever see it in crossover media anyhow, so it doesn't really bother.
There is a japanese sculptor who designed a predalien that I always thought looked pretty dope. He gave it the biomechanical up armoring that the aliens have lacked for a while.
apparantly some of the new models are made in japan so it makes searching for the design I'm talking about mostly impossible.
We used to have the pic saved somewhere on this site. Or maybe back in the gamegossip days, I can't remember.
(https://www.predatorium.com/forums/attachments/predalien_0001-jpg.116935/)
there it is
even though i don't see anything about japan about it
mind aint what it used to be
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/b4989ac61a96d6002349c07304e39a45/tumblr_ovctmpscRC1s748a0o1_1280.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Forig02.deviantart.net%2Fbad1%2Ff%2F2007%2F293%2F2%2F3%2Fpredalien_by_nebezial.jpg&hash=ed8176119d5b9a3076e6437191bfeefc1407ecb4)
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/0022e278e192581556c625178501bdcc/tumblr_o2mondVd8s1qjabr0o4_1280.jpg)
(https://pre00.deviantart.net/f4e2/th/pre/i/2015/117/e/b/hellbreed_by_mangrasshopper-d419sn2.jpg)
(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/1732d932-2e0a-40c3-b0ce-662f408e32d5/db2quud-13d89549-2a3b-4d86-b275-25f83a791108.png/v1/fill/w_900,h_540,q_80,strp/predalien_by_lucienfreiheit_db2quud-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9NTQwIiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvMTczMmQ5MzItMmUwYS00MGMzLWIwY2UtNjYyZjQwOGUzMmQ1XC9kYjJxdXVkLTEzZDg5NTQ5LTJhM2ItNGQ4Ni1iMjc1LTI1ZjgzYTc5MTEwOC5wbmciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9OTAwIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmltYWdlLm9wZXJhdGlvbnMiXX0.KxAiFSNxf7VRDnGvNnhO3qAvpscKSsl1IqmSqP2G6bs)
sometime yes but mostly no dreads for me. just make predaliens spikey
Beautiful model Kimarhi, got a name?
Quote from: Kimarhi on May 23, 2019, 04:22:33 AM
The predalien should honestly look like a big human alien, but because dreads have always been associated with the design they don't bother me. You'd only ever see it in crossover media anyhow, so it doesn't really bother.
There is a japanese sculptor who designed a predalien that I always thought looked pretty dope. He gave it the biomechanical up armoring that the aliens have lacked for a while.
apparantly some of the new models are made in japan so it makes searching for the design I'm talking about mostly impossible.
We used to have the pic saved somewhere on this site. Or maybe back in the gamegossip days, I can't remember.
https://www.predatorium.com/forums/attachments/predalien_0001-jpg.116935/
there it is
even though i don't see anything about japan about it
mind aint what it used to be
Haven't seen this picture in a while.
Quote from: Kimarhi on May 23, 2019, 04:22:33 AM
https://www.predatorium.com/forums/attachments/predalien_0001-jpg.116935/
This is pretty good and honestly this should've been the design they used in AvPR instead of what we got, dreads or otherwise.
Here's more screenies of it. (https://www.predatorium.com/forums/threads/wicked-cool-predalien.1813)
Quote from: King geedorah on May 23, 2019, 04:46:20 AM
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/b4989ac61a96d6002349c07304e39a45/tumblr_ovctmpscRC1s748a0o1_1280.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Forig02.deviantart.net%2Fbad1%2Ff%2F2007%2F293%2F2%2F3%2Fpredalien_by_nebezial.jpg&hash=ed8176119d5b9a3076e6437191bfeefc1407ecb4)
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/0022e278e192581556c625178501bdcc/tumblr_o2mondVd8s1qjabr0o4_1280.jpg)
(https://pre00.deviantart.net/f4e2/th/pre/i/2015/117/e/b/hellbreed_by_mangrasshopper-d419sn2.jpg)
(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/1732d932-2e0a-40c3-b0ce-662f408e32d5/db2quud-13d89549-2a3b-4d86-b275-25f83a791108.png/v1/fill/w_900,h_540,q_80,strp/predalien_by_lucienfreiheit_db2quud-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9NTQwIiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvMTczMmQ5MzItMmUwYS00MGMzLWIwY2UtNjYyZjQwOGUzMmQ1XC9kYjJxdXVkLTEzZDg5NTQ5LTJhM2ItNGQ4Ni1iMjc1LTI1ZjgzYTc5MTEwOC5wbmciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9OTAwIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmltYWdlLm9wZXJhdGlvbnMiXX0.KxAiFSNxf7VRDnGvNnhO3qAvpscKSsl1IqmSqP2G6bs)
sometime yes but mostly no dreads for me. just make predaliens spikey
These are also really cool. I love the third and fourth one especially with the latter looking so bestial.
The 2nd one has always been my favorite.
It's a No Dreads from myself.
Just way too O.T.T and poorly implemented.
Entire design seemed done by a focus group 😁
Agreed.
Quote from: lost dragon on May 26, 2019, 09:14:03 AM
Entire design seemed done by a focus group
Okay I like the design, but that was funny. :D
The Requiem PredAlien's worse than all Crabators and Snailiens combined.
It's an insult to both franchises.
Quote from: The Old One on May 26, 2019, 12:05:10 PM
The Requiem PredAlien's worse than all Crabators and Snailiens combined.
It's an insult to both franchises.
Ouch! :laugh:
Quote from: The Old One on May 26, 2019, 12:05:10 PM
The Requiem PredAlien's worse than all Crabators and Snailiens combined.
It's an insult to both franchises.
The difference between them two is that the Kenner toyline was done all in good fun.
Chet, not so much.
Indeed.
No dreadlocks, mandibles only & a biomechanical design.
So, I was sculpting a Predalien and tried both versions with/with no dreadlocks.
I've to say, I like the "dreaded" head better:
with_.jpg
without_.jpg
My man !
Also, dig how "fleshy" that bad boy looks, very organic looking
Quote from: Kradan on May 22, 2022, 06:57:13 PMMy man !
Also, dig how "fleshy" that bad boy looks, very organic looking
Thanks,
I tend to make it more fleshy/meaty as I'm not as good at the biomechanical part :) 273827187_2166497790169148_2120707554634801289_n.jpg
I also must say that I sincerely like your illustrations
It gives it an interesting look. Maybe you should try some Prometheus-esque Black Goo creature, these tend to be more meaty ?
You flatter me, sir ! Unfortunately I have been quite busy lately but that series isn't over yet and I hope to get back to it ASAP
Option 3: No Predalien.
GTFO
I am in favor of the dreads. Helps sell the point together with the mouth. Makes the design feel more complete.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-BS2Jq79_aeg/TkAERfu63rI/AAAAAAAAAno/_rKmRSFzwLQ/s1600/predart12uk0.jpg)
There's only one Predalien design worth discussion.
I'd like to see a version without dreadlocks, but I think such dreadlocks could fit with a more biomechanical design.
Edit - maybe more rigid as in the image above or as Sil from Species.
(https://i.ibb.co/fYfcJF8/mj3.jpg)
I could get along with the Sil like look because I like it better when the dreadlocks flow with the shape of the head. I really dislike the ones that come off the sides.
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on May 23, 2022, 05:44:05 AMI'd like to see a version without dreadlocks, but I think such dreadlocks could fit with a more biomechanical design.
Edit - maybe more rigid as in the image above or as Sil from Species.
https://i.ibb.co/fYfcJF8/mj3.jpg
In the future, I might try it similarly - I'd make holes on the sides of the head (shaped like the entrances to the Derelict) and the dreadlocks/tentacles would be retractable (I'd probably animate it also)
It'd not so different from this one's holes+tentacles:
_c10_.jpg
_c15_.jpg
Man, where have you been with all that beatiful stuff !
May 23, 2022, 09:19:39 AMQuote from: Master on May 23, 2022, 05:16:57 AMhttps://3.bp.blogspot.com/-BS2Jq79_aeg/TkAERfu63rI/AAAAAAAAAno/_rKmRSFzwLQ/s1600/predart12uk0.jpg
There's only one Predalien design worth discussion.
Dorman is da shit
Quote from: xxx on May 22, 2022, 06:50:58 PMSo, I was sculpting a Predalien and tried both versions with/with no dreadlocks.
I've to say, I like the "dreaded" head better:
with_.jpg
without_.jpg
I like the color and brightness in the style of a newborn baby. reminds me of the chestburster.
(https://i.ibb.co/rxtnj7X/Predalien-chestburster.jpg)
I actually like that design more than the adult version. 8)
And I second Kradan's question...where have you been with all that beatiful stuff ! ;D
[/quote]
I like the color and brightness in the style of a newborn baby. reminds me of the chestburster.
(https://i.ibb.co/rxtnj7X/Predalien-chestburster.jpg)
I actually like that design more than the adult version. 8)
- Yep, I might try to do a "shading skin" one similar to a dragonfly changing from larva to adult (https://www.ldpwatersheds.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Dragonfly-lifecycle-How-it-works-Daily.png)
And I second Kradan's question...where have you been with all that beatiful stuff ! ;D
[/quote]
- I take these as practice and just learning :)
No dreads, as my miniature work and sketch illustrate.
(https://i.imgur.com/qxXwLHB.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/48Rey00.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3q5h0pj.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/DHDtyrT.jpg)
Perfect! That's all it needs to be IMHO.
I think giving it a bit more height and making it a bit thicker in the limbs and torso is a fair call in addition to the mandibles. A Pred is a fair bit bigger than a human, so the resulting Alien being bigger too conveys how dangerous it is without using an entirely separate design.
Yeah, I can get behind that too.
Yay for dreads, just maybe not the ones in AVPR.
No Predalien - fullstop. >:(
Horrible idea and design.
Quote from: Elmazalman on Jun 06, 2022, 12:13:56 PMNo Predalien - fullstop. >:(
Horrible idea and design.
What's horrible idea? That Predator mighthave been infected with Alien?
You want horrible ideas? Watch Prometheus and Alien Covenant!
Quote from: Master on Jun 07, 2022, 10:52:18 AMWhat's horrible idea? That Predator mighthave been infected with Alien?
Alien vs Predator is a horrible idea, and the design for the Predalien is rubbish.
The design we got for sure.
Oh, so you don't like the concept of crossover. And what about the creature itself? I agree AvP-R Predalien is shit and one of the worst designs there is, but Dorman's Predalien is all kinds of awsome.
He kinda hates everything though.
I think the dreads can be incorporated on a biomechanical design in some way, I can imagine them being more tube like that goes back into the body similar to the ones at the end of Big Chap/Warrior's jawlines. Then again we don't see regular xenos with human hair, so them having dreads should be more unlikely
I don't even think it should have the mandibles. It's not as if the runner had a dog snout.
I'm of the opinion that the head is the only really unchanging part of the alien, but everything below the neck is subject to change depending on the host.
I think mandibles potentially make the cut but I wholeheartedly agree less is more when it concerns the DNA Reflex.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Jun 07, 2022, 04:30:28 PMHe kinda hates everything though.
Almost everything.
The original is where it's at. The rest is disposable popcorn/booze/drugs-fare.
(https://i.gifer.com/PyPk.gif)
So, I'm making an animation, and here is a small snippet of one "dreadless"
teeth5.jpg
teeth.jpg
aand one without the dome..
dome.jpg
dome.jpg
...
dome.jpg
That's an amazing looking PredAlien.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Mar 09, 2023, 10:20:27 AMThat's an amazing looking PredAlien.
thanks, it still doesn't have lover half modeled...I'll post a link to the animation when it is done
dome.jpg
Looks terrifying, in a good way.
You can clearly see the superiority of the no dreads doctrine at work in this amazing artwork.
Wake up babe @Cancerblack a good PredAlien design just dropped.
Yeah I seen it. And approve strongly.
Now that is actually a great Predalien design. Finally, they are rare. Congratulations! Please keep the head long and thick, non of that AvP2 game Predalien short head... :P
Spaghetti design is The correct design for the predalien and everybody says otherwise is wrong
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/2b2ab9f4c97316116eafb1e434798019/cd7fccffd46887e9-e8/s2048x3072/1d325b5a758c116bacd06b271f0ce1d64f9e2709.jpg)
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/bfde86b5a388ba47fe1ff0ad615af9f0/649235a335ba7dc3-ae/s1280x1920/b42db6a2473377292effe4e4f28777c14b3aac22.jpg)
Spaghetti is usually right and this is no exception
Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Sep 09, 2023, 09:12:34 PMSpaghetti design is The correct design for the predalien and everybody says otherwise is wrong
https://64.media.tumblr.com/2b2ab9f4c97316116eafb1e434798019/cd7fccffd46887e9-e8/s2048x3072/1d325b5a758c116bacd06b271f0ce1d64f9e2709.jpghttps://64.media.tumblr.com/bfde86b5a388ba47fe1ff0ad615af9f0/649235a335ba7dc3-ae/s1280x1920/b42db6a2473377292effe4e4f28777c14b3aac22.jpg
This chap is very spikey, I love it.
I do like a small amount of dreads on predalien but not perhaps what we see in AVPR. More something like the Dorman concept pics where they are represented kind of but in a more alien way.
Y tho? Human and dog Aliens don't have hair/fur/whiskers.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Sep 13, 2023, 10:53:55 PMY tho? Human and dog Aliens don't have hair/fur/whiskers.
I would love to have a better answer than I just think it looks cooler but...
The same reason scarfs and cloaks are so common in character design.
I saw this predalien concept art and it generally looks better, The only problem that I have is the spike on the tail looking too much like a scorpion and the dreadlocks what is that it looks great
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/avpr-concept-009-farzad-varahramyan.jpg)
I went to Photoshop to edit a couple things and it looks fantastic. but that's just my opinion any thoughts on this?
(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/58f214f5-e80d-4615-bf7f-5a34c75c041b/dgglnwp-dfba3005-9cc4-4d23-b67b-b5c704705d73.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcLzU4ZjIxNGY1LWU4MGQtNDYxNS1iZjdmLTVhMzRjNzVjMDQxYlwvZGdnbG53cC1kZmJhMzAwNS05Y2M0LTRkMjMtYjY3Yi1iNWM3MDQ3MDVkNzMucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.P4fYnpZfC_UOxepunVJ6ERf2Wqewm7kOe-H5d372MmI)
Still mostly the ugly Resurrection design. Just boring.
Awwwww :(
Wait why am I getting all upset. I should be the last person getting upset over opinion.
yes to dreads if the predalien looks like this：
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/davedorman.jpg)
Quote from: happypred on Nov 18, 2023, 10:19:26 AMyes to dreads if the predalien looks like this：
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/davedorman.jpg
Reminds me a little of Sil
(https://i.ibb.co/gS10WVw/Species-04-13.jpg)
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Nov 18, 2023, 01:26:19 PMQuote from: happypred on Nov 18, 2023, 10:19:26 AMyes to dreads if the predalien looks like this：
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/davedorman.jpg
Reminds me a little of Sil
https://i.ibb.co/gS10WVw/Species-04-13.jpg
Ayo what the f**k (https://media.tenor.com/hT_Zwxt_ffEAAAAd/ayo.gif)
I mean the dreadlock-like appendages ending in a rigid, pointed configuration.
(https://i.ibb.co/1nmVY5N/Sil-Species-Natasha-Henstridge-b-removebg-preview.png)
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Nov 18, 2023, 01:37:50 PMI mean the dreadlock-like appendages ending in a rigid, pointed configuration.
https://i.ibb.co/1nmVY5N/Sil-Species-Natasha-Henstridge-b-removebg-preview.png
No I know it's just what she's doing to that man, are they wrestling?
This one is kinda similar to that style
(https://i.ibb.co/Rj84HRm/maxresdefault-16.jpg)
Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Nov 18, 2023, 01:45:50 PMNo I know it's just what she's doing to that man, are they wrestling?
...have you not seen Species?
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 18, 2023, 02:56:35 PMQuote from: Thatguy2068 on Nov 18, 2023, 01:45:50 PMNo I know it's just what she's doing to that man, are they wrestling?
...have you not seen Species?
I did, it was kind of good. Love the action scenes within it especially when they're doing in bed but I don't know why Sil got pregnant do you got any explanation for this?
Her entire purpose as a biological weapon was hunting down the "strongest" man she could to give her children, to wipe out humanity. After finding something "off" or being interrupted during all her previous attempts at mating, she eventually singles out one of the team that's been causing her all the trouble, because the fact they even could shows a certain kind of strength the other men all lacked (power/authority). Plus she was just getting desparate.
But you should watch it again. She's an alien weapon, and her function is to f**k, get preggers and wipe out and/or replace humanity.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 18, 2023, 07:01:49 PMHer entire purpose as a biological weapon was hunting down the "strongest" man she could to give her children, to wipe out humanity. After finding something "off" or being interrupted during all her previous attempts at mating, she eventually singles out one of the team that's been causing her all the trouble, because the fact they even could shows a certain kind of strength the other men all lacked (power/authority). Plus she was just getting desparate.
But you should watch it again. She's an alien weapon, and her function is to f**k, get preggers and wipe out and/or replace humanity.
What mating, why did you phase f**k like that, is there some sort of double meaning.
Because "f**k" in english is slang for sex? Mating is a more clinical term, and probably more accurate for what she was trying to do.
Dreadlocks are not necessary, just stick to the biomechanical aesthetics and Predator jaws. Too many fleshy-morphs already.
OK this one for on way too long Cancerback I'm sorry for wasting your time I did understand what she was doing it, I acted dumb and I was hoping that you would notice sarcasm but it's wasn't great sarcasm, it was a dick move of me to do that I'm sorry for that.
Personally I don't mind dreads at all. They give the creature more personality. Also we still don't know (or at least I don't) if dreads have some bigger purpouse in Predator's biology, maybe they have important role, so DNA reflex include them for Alien, because they are jus beneficial for Xenomorph.
If the human Aliens do not have it, then it is not really beneficial.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 04, 2023, 05:35:18 PMIf the human Aliens do not have it, then it is not really beneficial.
I'm with Blue on this one. Predator dreadlocks Seems like it nothing more than just organic hair
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 04, 2023, 05:35:18 PMIf the human Aliens do not have it, then it is not really beneficial.
Human Aliens don't have it, because Humans don't have it :) Well, I don't know, Predators' dreads look like something more than just cool looking hairs. Of course original designer of Predator probably added them exactly because they look cool.
I know, but then you imply that certain creatures provide more benefits because of DNA Reflex than others, I do not like that personally.
Alien³ and Aliens Phalanx work for me precisely, because they did not change the form or silhouette of the Alien whilst adding the influence and an ability of their host.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 05, 2023, 10:44:06 AMI know, but then you imply that certain creatures provide more benefits because of DNA Reflex than others, I do not like that personally.
Alien³ and Aliens Phalanx work for me precisely, because they did not change the form or silhouette of the Alien whilst adding the influence and an ability of their host.
Well, in Phalanx Aliens that came from those digging animals had different claws and also could dig, so they basicly got more benefits. I think that it makes sense that from creature with bigger amount of useful traits Aliens can inherit them. Isn't it the whole point of DNA reflex anyway? Getting the strenghts from hosts, adapting to new environment? I also like the idea that subsequent queen can carry on those traits even If hosts are different. It adds to Aliens adaptility, and gives more intent behind their actions.
Not a benefit necessarily but a slight deviation, it might have disadvantages as well as advantages, no the Alien should remain pure and take on traits on a case by case basis. Neither of my examples change it aesthetically either, the quadrupedal animal Alien still looks like one of H.R Giger's paintings and it's hands that can act as spades can still act as claws in the case of Phalanx.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 05, 2023, 05:15:22 PMNot a benefit necessarily but a slight deviation, it might have disadvantages as well as advantages, no the Alien should remain pure and take on traits on a case by case basis. Neither of my examples change it aesthetically either, the quadrupedal animal Alien still looks like one of H.R Giger's paintings and it's hands that can act as spades can still act as claws in the case of Phalanx.
Question is, do we even know how pure Alien looks? Or even If there is such a thing :) In case of design I agree, it should be akin to Giger's work and nothing will beat original, but I like to see more deviation from it from time to time. For example, from recent ones I like the submorphs from latest Marvel comic. But consdidering adaptibility, its better for Alien to inherit as much useful traits from its host as it can. But going back to dreads, I think they fit with gigerish look, Sil even had something similiar as someone mentioned Below.
Quote from: jacobo1122 on Dec 04, 2023, 10:45:11 AMPersonally I don't mind dreads at all. They give the creature more personality. Also we still don't know (or at least I don't) if dreads have some bigger purpouse in Predator's biology, maybe they have important role, so DNA reflex include them for Alien, because they are jus beneficial for Xenomorph.
Yeah this - dreadlocks might be more that mere hair - they bleed when cut, after all. They could be a sensory organ for all we know, and something so embedded in the Predator's DNA that DNA Reflex picks it up (just like the mandibles). There's no reason to believe PredAliens "shouldn't" have dreadlocks, that's a nonsense argument used to try and prop up one's personal aesthetic opinions.
It looks like shit and it always will.
It is also dumb from a logic standpoint.
As for "pure Alien" everything comes from this aesthetically speaking:
(https://uploads5.wikiart.org/images/h-r-giger/necronom-iv-1976.jpg)
From a biological point of view, you do not want the Queen to take on traits of the host species, so that the potential progeny it creates can be as diverse as possible within useful parameters.
Only soda-drinkers want dreads on their aliens.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Dec 06, 2023, 01:46:48 AMOnly soda-drinkers want dreads on their aliens.
Hey bubby I'm a soda drinker too you Dingus. Even then I don't think dreadlocks should be on predalien
Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Dec 06, 2023, 02:28:32 AMQuote from: Local Trouble on Dec 06, 2023, 01:46:48 AMOnly soda-drinkers want dreads on their aliens.
Hey bubby I'm a soda drinker too you Dingus. Even then I don't think dreadlocks should be on predalien
So not all soda-drinkers want dreads on their aliens, but anybody who wants dreads on their aliens is a soda-drinker.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 06, 2023, 12:46:42 AMIt looks like shit and it always will.
It is also dumb from a logic standpoint.
As for "pure Alien" everything comes from this aesthetically speaking:
https://uploads5.wikiart.org/images/h-r-giger/necronom-iv-1976.jpg
From a biological point of view, you do not want the Queen to take on traits of the host species, so that the potential progeny it creates can be as diverse as possible within useful parameters.
Well, we can agree to disagree :) I think they look good, especially that designers did a good work and made them not smooth like Predator's but segmented, Looking more like small tubes, maintaining biomechanical look.
And in my opinion it's only logical for perfect organism to adapt beneficial traits for itself.
Aesthetically, yes, we all know that it all started with Nefronów IV, I was talking lore-wise. By the way I would totally dig If someone used Necronom IV in some story, maybe exactly as "pure" Xeno (not sure If collosal dong between its legs would work though XD) . Alex White brought unused Giger's concepts for Blue Marsallis once, maybe it's time for this. Please Titan, bring Alex back :D
Go back to the Giger aesthetic please.
Turn the dreadlocks into penises :D
Chet makes me actively want to put my eyes out.
(https://i.gifer.com/6BHN.gif)
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 06, 2023, 12:46:42 AMIt is also dumb from a logic standpoint.
Not really lmao
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 06, 2023, 12:46:42 AMAs for "pure Alien" everything comes from this aesthetically speaking:
https://uploads5.wikiart.org/images/h-r-giger/necronom-iv-1976.jpg
From a biological point of view, you do not want the Queen to take on traits of the host species, so that the potential progeny it creates can be as diverse as possible within useful parameters.
There is no such thing as a "pure Alien", and none of the Aliens in the movies look like that drawing.
The Queen can take on whatever traits it wants, the resultant Aliens evidently don't take on those same traits. Evidence: the regular Aliens in AvPR don't have dreads or mandibles.
Dreads are cool and good, any argument against them is purely from a personal aesthetic opinion standpoint. Again, there is no "objective" or "logical" measure that says PredAliens shouldn't have them. You're stating your subjective opinion (and that's awesome! Keep doing it! I'm doing it too!) that's all.
Edit— "useful parameters" assumes the Alien has any control over the traits it takes. That's not how biology works lol
If we're going by the evidence that every PredAlien across all media has dreadlocks, then either the PredAlien can't control that it takes them because of how they're present in the genetic makeup (just like an Alien being bipedal or quadrupedal - if the Alien is actively taking "useful" traits then they'd be one or the other regardless of the host), or dreadlocks are in fact "useful" seeing as how every PredAlien has them.
My point of view without condescension:
If it is "the perfect organism" that necessitates that on a genetic level it can not pass down the traits of hosts through the successive generations, otherwise you will get conflicting qualities, so it ought to have control over what it takes on board without the interference of an outside party if it is to endure.
This actually gets pretty well represented in Resurrection with the clones being genetically unstable, because of the mixture of traits leading to what we see being a destruction of the reproductive cycle, changing the fundamental nature of the Alien with the Newborn.
As for "every PredAlien having dreadlocks means every PredAlien must have dreadlocks"... Or every official PredAlien design turns out pretty shit, except the rejected ones. f**k AVP and Requiem. I frankly refuse to discuss them or include their nonsense.
It's bad enough that the aliens have human skulls, but at least they have the goddamn common decency to cover them up. >:(
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 06, 2023, 06:15:38 PMIf it is "the perfect organism" that necessitates that on a genetic level it can not pass down the traits of hosts through the successive generations, otherwise you will get conflicting qualities. So it ought to have control over what it takes on board without the interference of an outside party if it is to endure.
That assumes it's "the perfect organism" (a claim made by a deranged android who never sees the adult creature).
Not to mention, if they're the perfect organism and can actively control what traits it can pass down, you'd think it would retain successive useful traits from generation to generation to make it more perfect (that's how biological evolution works). Actively purging the genetic template in the hopes that the next host provides something "useful" is counter-productive.
At a bare minimum, I've demonstrated that the interpretation of "perfect organism" is purely subjective since I can come up with ways that your "perfect" traits aren't perfect. Assuming it's in fact "perfect" at all.
Aliens do a ton of illogical and unexplainable stuff. They're Aliens.
You're trying to assign a (subjective) "logic" to a creature that, by design, is meant to be unknowable and unpredictable - it's right there in the title of the first movie, it's meant to be a creature unlike anything ever seen by human eyes, which cannot be understood.
If it can actively control what traits it takes (which is not how biology works - how would it know what is useful and what isn't until it's in a practical setting after it's born?) and every PredAlien has dreads, then it's a useful trait whether you personally think it looks dumb or not.
As pointed out, in AvPR we see that the dreadlocks are not passed down from Chet to its offspring.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 06, 2023, 06:15:38 PMThis actually gets pretty well represented in Resurrection with the clones being genetically unstable, because of the mixture of traits leading to what we see being a destruction of the reproductive cycle, changing the fundamental nature of the Alien with the Newborn.
And despite the Queen being genetically unstable, she still produces a whole clutch of regular Alien offspring.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 06, 2023, 06:15:38 PMAs for every PredAlien having dreadlocks means every PredAlien mistake dreadlocks... Or every official PredAlien design turns out pretty shit, except the rejected ones. f**k AVP and Requiem. I frankly refuse to discuss them or include their nonsense.
And that's your opinion and you're welcome to it.
Just don't reply to me anymore actually thanks.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 06, 2023, 07:42:06 PMJust don't reply to me anymore actually thanks.
I think you're upset that your "logic" and "perfect organism" relies on a ton of subjective opinions and "I don't like this evidence so I'm going to ignore it", and I took the time to point it out.
You're welcome to your opinion that dreadlocks suck, but don't try to prop up your opinion with spurious "logic" as if it makes your opinion stronger or better than anyone else's. :)
I have had said debates before.
"Pathogen Explained"
"Alien Explained"
You might remember being reprimanded by the moderators for this sort of thing in one of them in fact actually. I have a thing for thought exercises about them basically. I'm just not interested in arguing with you because I don't really like you. I will happily discuss it with anyone else on this very forum.
That's my last towards your particular brand of arrogance.
This argument is getting pretty heated, Let's calm down a bit. I don't want to see anyone tearing at each other's throats over some opinion.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 06, 2023, 07:52:10 PMI have had said debates before.
"Pathogen Explained"
"Alien Explained"
I'm just not interested in arguing with you because I don't really like you. I will happily discuss it with anyone else on this very forum.
That's my last towards your particular brand of arrogance.
Pointing out problems with your "logic" is not "arrogance". In fact, one could argue that claiming to understand and "explain" the Alien better than anyone else on these forums is the definition of arrogance.
Edit— if you think I should be reprimanded for pointing out problems with your arguments, then report me. And for someone who likes thought experiments, you dropped out very fast when anyone questioned your thoughts or provided contradictory thought experiments.
Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Dec 06, 2023, 07:53:28 PMThis argument is getting pretty heated, Let's calm down a bit. I don't want to see anyone tearing at each other's throats over some opinion.
That's the point, that it's purely an opinion. "Logic" was never part of the equation.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/iUETfsxRbEk/maxresdefault.jpg)
Not like I pointed out the tongue in cheek nature of the titles in said threads or anything...
(I in fact did, impartial observers of an unspecified nature.)
I think someone should be reprimanded when refusing to leave someone alone who has requested that they do as such.
I don't remember you doing that (barely remember the threads at all to be honest), but good on you for doing so.
Edit— to be extremely clear, I have nothing against you, nor do I care what you think of me. If anyone else in the thread had been attempting to prop up their opinion with questionable logic, I'd have had the same response for them too.
Edit again— I genuinely honest to god was not trying to be "arrogant" (and I don't feel I was), but if that's how you perceived it then I apologize.
To put it simply:
You always refuse to actually engage with what someone writes, and then couch your response in subjectivity as if no one else knows that their statements about fiction inherently are, perhaps not arrogant but definitely condescending.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 06, 2023, 08:24:30 PMTo put it simply:
You always refuse to actually engage with what someone writes, and then couch your response in subjectivity as if no one else knows that their statements about fiction inherently are, perhaps not arrogant but definitely condescending.
I think you're going to have to elaborate - I pretty actively engaged with what your claims of logic were, point by point.
From my perspective, couching your opinions in (spurious) logic (including emphasizing the word
with italics) comes across as you trying to elevate your opinion as being above mere opinion.
If that wasn't your intent then that's okay, but it's absolutely how it came across.
It's almost as if there was some pretty hefty miscommunication coming from both sides.
And again if you feel it's being condescending, that isn't my intent and I apologize if that's how you perceived it.
For example, the Alien Resurrection Queen, produces regular adults in abilities certainly... (if certainly not appearance) but it is proven by the Newborn just existing that they are somehow compromised if they indeed inherit from their mother.
You said my thought exercise logic did not work with real world biology, but then ignored it, (particularly evident in some of the Neomorphs in David's Lab and the Resurrected Aliens in the Auriga's Lab) to include the loathsome AVP films to bolster your point of view.
(...or unlike real world biology they do not inherit traits from their mother meaning there must be some selection of "useful traits" going on...)
But this paired with "no lmao" -Hence refusing to engage.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 06, 2023, 08:58:22 PMFor example, the Alien Resurrection Queen, produces regular adults in abilities certainly... (if certainly not appearance) but it is proven by the Newborn just existing that they are somehow compromised if they indeed inherit from their mother.
If the Alien is meant to reset its genetics after each generation (supported by AvPR where the new Aliens didn't have dreadlocks or mandibles), and the Resurrection Queen produced a bunch of normal Aliens, then the system is working in spite of the cloning genetic mixing... until there's a sudden tipping point and the mutation kicks in and overrides the "default" of not passing down traits to the offspring, and the Newborn happens.
One could interpret that as being evidence that the Alien is not a perfect organism, if its genetics and "intended" lifecycle can be so easily disrupted.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 06, 2023, 08:58:22 PMYou said my thought exercise logic did not work with real world biology, but then ignored it, (particularly evident in some of the Neomorphs in David's Lab and the Resurrected Aliens in the Auriga's Lab) to include the loathsome AVP films to bolster your point of view.
Genuine question, what did I ignore from Neomorphs (although I'd argue they're not particularly relevant since they're not Aliens) or the Auriga Aliens?
And even if you don't like the AvP movies, that shouldn't change my prerogative to cite them if I feel they support my case.
Reminder: I was citing AvPR to
support your claim that the Queen filters out traits between generations. Just because Chet has dreadlocks doesn't mean its offspring will (and they don't).
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 06, 2023, 08:58:22 PM(...or unlike real world biology they do not inherit traits from their mother meaning there must be some selection of "useful traits" going on...)
Not really - it just means the Alien is inheriting traits, it doesn't mean that it can control it. Certain traits, such as dreadlocks, or quadrapedalism, might just be traits the Alien genetically absorbs because that's how the host's genetics are. We know Predator dreadlocks aren't mere hair (and I'm almost positive other sources have said they're like a sensory organ, but feel free to fact-check me on that), and from 'The Predator' we know other non-Predator lifeforms from their planet have dreadlocks too. They could just be part of the genetic makeup that a PredAlien has no choice but to inherit, like a human skull or being a quadruped or something.
Saying "it's not passing down traits" doesn't automatically mean it's actively selecting "useful" traits. It's not an either-or, it doesn't logically follow.
The problem with the Alien actively inheriting "useful" traits is:
-the traits are useful only insofar as how they benefit the Alien's actual practical survival, and this is dependent on a ton of factors the Alien can neither predict nor control, such as the environment it's being born into. Claiming the Alien can actively read a host's genetic code and precognitively know what is "useful" and what isn't, despite being utterly unfamiliar with the genetics being presented or what they mean or what the end result will be as it pertains to Alien genetics.
Here's a thought experiment: you've got a human lost in the woods, with a bunch of huge grizzly and black bears. He stumbles across an Alien egg and is impregnated. The Alien comes out, looking very human and acting like the one from 'Alien'. The angry bears overwhelm and kill it, because bears are big and mean and a whole lot formidable than the human (from which the Alien drew its "useful" traits).
Another thought experiment: facehugger gets loose in a space station and comes across a big snake, which it facehugs. We get a snake-Alien, and in the process of being born the gravity on the station fails. The limbless snake-Alien is screwed, floating endlessly.
Defining "useful" traits is entirely subjective and we have no evidence that that's actually what's going on. see: the example I gave that Aliens should be entirely bipedal or quadrupedal, because one is clearly better than the other. The fact that both are happening means the Alien can't control it.
And all of this circles back to the fact that even if the Alien could selectively choose "useful" traits, the fact that all PredAliens have dreadlocks means it must be a useful trait (this is independent of whether you think dreadlocks are good or not, or whether you like PredAlien designs thus far - this is strictly the logical flow).
Remember, it's called DNA
Reflex, which implies it's a reactionary measure outside of the Alien's control.
Not to mention that it's extremely far from a "perfect organism".
The AVP films and The Predator directly contradict the Alien films though.
It is either the Alien Queen in Resurrection passed down the traits or not. Not both. The Newborn suggests that it does. Showing the issue with Queens taking traits from their hosts.
This means a baseline does exist, or it does pass down traits, and Aliens have a way of filtering them.
The Drone and Runner are overall very similar, but whereas you can see that the Drone has hands much like we do, so does the Runner despite the animal origin, that suggests to me in line with their artifical nature some omnipresent selection of useful genetics (from the host species) and discarding of others.
Spoiler
If they have a useful function, encase the dreadlocks under a carapace, leaving them exposed to be harmed makes no sense for a creature with already such a large profile and head.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 06, 2023, 10:00:36 PMThe AVP films and The Predator directly contradict the Alien films though.
It is either the Alien Queen in Resurrection passed down the traits or not. Not both. The Newborn suggests that it does. Showing the issue with Queens taking traits from their hosts.
I don't care if you feel they contradict (and they contradict in timeline only, not Alien biology), there's a ton of contradictory Alien media and this is the anything-goes AvP subforum, so I'm going to cite them. If you want to turn this into a canon debate, the Predator movies aren't canon to 'Alien' so PredAliens can't possibly exist, so why are we even here? Like, this is the AvP subforum talking about an AvP concept, not being able to cite AvP sources is pretty wild.
The Queen in resurrection suggests that they don't pass down traits because it made a bunch of normal Aliens....... until suddenly things beyond the Queen's control changed. That's okay. The fact that it happened doesnt mean it's bad or wrong or counter to the "perfect organism" claim, it's just a thing that can happen to Aliens.
Also you, uh, ignored everything else I said. For someone calling me out on ignoring your (fair) claim about the Newborn, that's kind of bad form.
"Until things suddenly changed."
When you can define this change, you will have a point there, until then everything in Alien Resurrection remains pretty far from any normality. That also includes the Aliens themselves.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 06, 2023, 10:16:32 PM"Until things suddenly changed."
When you can define this change, you will have a point there, until then everything in Alien Resurrection remains pretty far from any normality. That also includes the Aliens themselves.
The change is when Gediman said it changed - a secondary reproductive cycle suddenly appeared. The Queen was cosmetically and biologically just like the one from Aliens, until spontaneously she wasn't. What caused that sudden change is anyone's guess - they're Aliens, we're not supposed to understand them.
Also there's no evidence that the basic Aliens were in any way tainted by anything - quite the opposite, considering identical Aliens showed up in the first AvP movie.
I'm still a little hung up on you calling me out for responding to all of your points and then not showing me the same courtesy.
And again, saying "don't cite AvP sources on this AvP forum regarding an AvP topic" is a little wack.
It is a general forum, not an AVP one, an Alien Predator one, discussing a potential Alien creature first and foremost. I never said you did not respond to my every point but that you did not truly engage. That you still refuse to and now we come to the crux of why:
Not tainted. Very funny.
"I always wanted my Alien to be a very beautiful thing, not just something disgusting, not just a monster, but something aesthetic. Throughout the creature's evolution what they've done is change it from something aesthetic to something that looks like shit – I mean literally, it looks like a turd."
~ HR Giger, Alien Evolution, 2001.
I think I am done here.
We will never agree on this fundamental principle.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 06, 2023, 10:28:36 PMIt is a general forum, not an AVP one, an Alien Predator one, discussing a potential Alien creature first and foremost.
It's an AvP concept (quite possibly the
most AvP concept - a literal union of Aliens and Predators), on an Aliens-Predator general discussion forum, I will continue to cite AvP sources lol
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 06, 2023, 10:28:36 PMI never said you did not respond to my every point but that you did not truly engage.
And when pressed on elaborating on what that means, you didn't.
Going point by point through what you're saying, including circling back to address things you think I missed, is the definition of engaging with it.
If I were to say you aren't engaging with my posts, how do you think I feel?
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 06, 2023, 10:28:36 PMNot tainted. Very funny.
There isn't any evidence that they are, especially in light of the first AvP movie.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 06, 2023, 10:28:36 PM"I always wanted my Alien to be a very beautiful thing, not just something disgusting, not just a monster, but something aesthetic. Throughout the creature's evolution what they've done is change it from something aesthetic to something that looks like shit – I mean literally, it looks like a turd."
~ HR Giger, Alien Evolution, 2001.
That is his opinion and he's welcome to it, yes.
The evidence being that they are, revealed by the context of Resurrection, if you are not willing to acknowledge that you are just not engaging in good faith in my eyes.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 06, 2023, 10:40:00 PMThe evidence being that they are, revealed by the context of Resurrection, if you are not willing to acknowledge that you are just not engaging in good faith in my eyes.
That's circular reasoning, you're saying "they are because they are", apparently no evidence required.
it's just as easy to read it the way I did - Gediman literally says in dialogue that things were normal until suddenly they weren't. It stands to reason that while things were going normally, the Queen was producing normal Aliens. It is
your opinion that they're tainted, and saying things like "they are because I say they are" goes right back to the crux of the matter - you're trying to elevate your opinion above other people's, and it absolutely comes across as condescending and arrogant.
Especially in light of the ones in AvP being cosmetically identical except for the legs - which are *less* human in the (supposedly) human-tainted ones in Resurrection.
This is awfully far from liking or not liking PredAlien dreadlocks though.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 06, 2023, 10:52:50 PMIt is your opinion that they're tainted, and saying things like "they are because I say they are" goes right back to the crux of the matter - you're trying to elevate your opinion above other people's, and it absolutely comes across as condescending and arrogant.
Author is dead and all but it was definitely the point of their design being so different in the movie. You're being very disingenuous saying it's
just her opinion when it's not.
That said saying you can't source AvP when discussing the ultimate AvP concept is also incredibly disingenuous and this entire conversation is painful and dumb and you should both go touch grass.
Quote from: SiL on Dec 06, 2023, 11:03:03 PMQuote from: Xenomrph on Dec 06, 2023, 10:52:50 PMIt is your opinion that they're tainted, and saying things like "they are because I say they are" goes right back to the crux of the matter - you're trying to elevate your opinion above other people's, and it absolutely comes across as condescending and arrogant.
Author is dead and all but it was definitely the point of their design being so different in the movie.
Genuine question, do you have a quote or source on that? My only knowledge of Jeunet's intent with the Alien designs is that he wanted them like cockroaches or something.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 06, 2023, 11:06:03 PMQuote from: SiL on Dec 06, 2023, 11:03:03 PMQuote from: Xenomrph on Dec 06, 2023, 10:52:50 PMIt is your opinion that they're tainted, and saying things like "they are because I say they are" goes right back to the crux of the matter - you're trying to elevate your opinion above other people's, and it absolutely comes across as condescending and arrogant.
Author is dead and all but it was definitely the point of their design being so different in the movie.
Genuine question, do you have a quote or source on that? My only knowledge of Jeunet's intent with the Alien designs is that he wanted them like cockroaches or something.
https://alienseries.wordpress.com/2016/04/29/alien-resurrection-hybrid-theory/
Quote"The cloning process would naturally be contaminated," Gillis explained, "so the Aliens would have slightly messed-up DNA and be somewhat different. We thought this was the perfect opportunity for us to do something like give them longer arms and other subtle things. Our belief was that the design from the first movie was very successful, and you don't want to fix something that ain't broke. So all our effort went into improving it and making it look more organic, having more of a bio-mechanical exoskeleton feel, instead of going for the easier route of combining car parts into the clay before we cast it."
Quote from: SiL on Dec 06, 2023, 11:20:33 PMQuote from: Xenomrph on Dec 06, 2023, 11:06:03 PMQuote from: SiL on Dec 06, 2023, 11:03:03 PMQuote from: Xenomrph on Dec 06, 2023, 10:52:50 PMIt is your opinion that they're tainted, and saying things like "they are because I say they are" goes right back to the crux of the matter - you're trying to elevate your opinion above other people's, and it absolutely comes across as condescending and arrogant.
Author is dead and all but it was definitely the point of their design being so different in the movie.
Genuine question, do you have a quote or source on that? My only knowledge of Jeunet's intent with the Alien designs is that he wanted them like cockroaches or something.
https://alienseries.wordpress.com/2016/04/29/alien-resurrection-hybrid-theory/
Quote"The cloning process would naturally be contaminated," Gillis explained, "so the Aliens would have slightly messed-up DNA and be somewhat different. We thought this was the perfect opportunity for us to do something like give them longer arms and other subtle things. Our belief was that the design from the first movie was very successful, and you don't want to fix something that ain't broke. So all our effort went into improving it and making it look more organic, having more of a bio-mechanical exoskeleton feel, instead of going for the easier route of combining car parts into the clay before we cast it."
Thanks! I love learning that stuff.
I don't think it really changes my interpretation in light of the other movies and things like that, but it's still interesting to learn.
For the record back in the late 90s I was very onboard team "f**ked up genetics" (my main source of evidence was that they were fleshier) but I came around on the idea "wait a minute, what if they're not", and the AvP movies helped solidify it.
I'm gonna be honest it makes absolutely no sense why they wouldn't be biomechanical in AvP, instead they are fleshy why would they be that? There is no indication on why they're like this they're just infected normal people, which from my knowledge no modifications to the facehuggers.
*Look at Paul
So I'm pretty confident to say that these movies are very unreliable in terms of... Everything
Yeah the first one is enjoyable, And that's because of the action scenes, and have some pretty cool small scenes with the pyramids and the predator planet and that's about it. If you tried to think about it more than what it is it just falls apart especially the sequel.
Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Dec 06, 2023, 11:58:17 PMI'm gonna be honest it makes absolutely no sense why they wouldn't be biomechanical in AvP, instead they are fleshy why would they be that? There is no indication on why they're like this they're just infected normal people, which from my knowledge no modifications to the facehuggers.
*Look at Paul
The real filmmaking reason is budget constraints - AvP saved a bunch of money by literally reusing the Alien props and costumes from Alien Resurrection (with alterations to the legs).
As for why they're fleshy in-universe, the easy answer is "they're Aliens and don't have a set design, they can look like that sometimes, I dunno".
While I don't think this has any bearing on the Aliens' appearance, the novelization does point out that the facehuggers were modified by the Predators to speed up their lifecycle, which explains why the Aliens were born so fast.
The novel doesn't say that, just that they're preserving the most robust facehuggers and letting the others burn.
i'm sorry about this but that absolutely makes no sense. You can't just go "there like this just because" without a proper explanation.
you know what I'm getting out of here, I'm already getting a little pissed off, And this form is turning into a flame war
Quote from: SiL on Dec 07, 2023, 12:05:18 AMThe novel doesn't say that, just that they're preserving the most robust facehuggers and letting the others burn.
Wait, I swear there was a source that said the Predators tinkered with the lifecycle to speed it up.
Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Dec 07, 2023, 12:08:28 AMi'm sorry about this but that absolutely makes no sense. You can't just go "there like this just because" without a proper explanation.
That's the point, they're Aliens, they're going to do unpredictable, unknowable, incomprehensible, weird stuff. We can't (and shouldn't!) explain everything they do, it's what makes them scary.
Like that's the entire point of the final chapter of the Colonial Marines Technical Manual, a group of people get together and try to "explain" the Alien and come away with "yeah we can't do it and we were fools to try"
There's a perfectly valid, consistent explanation given by the films:
Aliens collect traits as they go. Scott suggested it back in the 70s.
So Big Chap is Alien - Jockey - Human.
The Runner is Alien - Jockey - Human - Dog, and you can see the biomechanical details are taking a hit.
Alien Resurrection is awash with human. AvP and AvPR, there'd be no Jockey in the mix either, so they look similar.
Covenant even bares this out with the new Alien being fleshy and largely devoid of biomechanical detailing, as Engineer/Jockey hasn't been added to the mix yet.
Aliens have a basic shape but the detailing is a product of intergenerational trait collection. Each generation builds on the last, they don't reset.
SM said this years ago, even before the Prequels existed, didn't like it then, don't like it now.
We've been saying it for years because
1) Scott said it
2) It explains what we see across all movies
The alternative is "it's whatever shut up". Which is fine, but when people ask for something in universe, it ticks the boxes.
Quote from: SiL on Dec 07, 2023, 12:26:34 AMThere's a perfectly valid, consistent explanation given by the films:
Aliens collect traits as they go. Scott suggested it back in the 70s.
So Big Chap is Alien - Jockey - Human.
The Runner is Alien - Jockey - Human - Dog, and you can see the biomechanical details are taking a hit.
Alien Resurrection is awash with human. AvP and AvPR, there'd be no Jockey in the mix either, so they look similar.
Covenant even bares this out with the new Alien being fleshy and largely devoid of biomechanical detailing, as Engineer/Jockey hasn't been added to the mix yet.
Aliens have a basic shape but the detailing is a product of intergenerational trait collection. Each generation builds on the last, they don't reset.
I follow the logic but I don't think it's airtight, largely due to AvP and AvPR - the human genetic mix (which still has some Jockey buried in there somewhere) in Resurrection happened to introduce precisely the same amount of human DNA as the ones in AvP, resulting in identical Aliens? And the ones in AvPR had Predator DNA mixed in, but were identical to the AvP ones from the neck down.
That and the ones in Aliens had a double dose of Human DNA (being an additional human generation removed from the one in 'Alien') but were mostly identical... except for the hands, forearms, and feet, which were *less* human? Ditto for the ones in Resurrection, which had the digitigrade legs despite having more human DNA?
Like it's a fine theory but I don't think I ascribe to it.
Also can you find Scott's quote from the 70s? I'm curious what he said.
I pettily hope Noah Hawley has Biomechanical Drones and Runners created in a lab from human and animal tissue just to kill this notion.
@Xenomrph you're missing the forest for the trees.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 07, 2023, 01:03:37 AMQuote from: SiL on Dec 07, 2023, 12:58:21 AM@Xenomrph you're missing the forest for the trees.
How?
You're getting hung up on whether it looks precisely one way or another when it's not the point. The point is if you strip out the biomechanical influence you get a very fleshy looking Alien.
The genetic cloning flushed out the Jockey genetics and left you something like what you'd see if the Alien was from a long line of humans -- like we see in AvP/R.
The Aliens in
Aliens are already losing biomechanical details, noticeably in the hands and feet.
Source for Scott's quote:
https://alienexplorations.blogspot.com/1979/10/life-cycle-of-alien.html
QuoteRidley Scott: The thing that I was always frustrated about was the absence of sense of smell with the beast. It's a real element with him, because his odor must have been incredibly powerful. I wanted a sense of a timeless, slightly decaying creature that, maybe, only has a limited life cycle of, maybe, four days like an insect. The alien life form lived to reproduce and in reproducing took on the characteristics of its last inhabitant and its new host. Thus the alien on board the Nostromo had the characteristics of the space jockey on the derelict and Kane. If the facehugger had hit the cat, it could have been a hybrid of the space jockey and the cat. When Ripley blasts off from the Nostromo with the alien aboard, it's dying which is why it moves so slowly. She kills it, but it would have died soon anyway. It's like a butterfly (Fantastic Films #12, "Alien from the inside out", An exclusive interview with the Director of Alien, Ridley Scott, part two by James Delson p30)
Quote from: SiL on Dec 07, 2023, 01:07:44 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on Dec 07, 2023, 01:03:37 AMQuote from: SiL on Dec 07, 2023, 12:58:21 AM@Xenomrph you're missing the forest for the trees.
How?
You're getting hung up on whether it looks precisely one way or another when it's not the point. The point is if you strip out the biomechanical influence you get a very fleshy looking Alien.
The genetic cloning flushed out the Jockey genetics and left you something like what you'd see if the Alien was from a long line of humans -- like we see in AvP/R.
The Aliens in Aliens are already losing biomechanical details, noticeably in the hands and feet.
That's fair.
Like, it's a functional enough broad theory, but it doesn't work for me when you look at the details.
For me, trying to find an explanation when the details don't line up doesn't jive with the Alien concept - maybe we shouldn't be able to explain everything
To each their own.
Damn, I thought we just have nice disscusion about Aliens' fashion. Let's calm down and agree that dreadlocks are cool. Or disagree, they're just our opinions, and nonet of them is better or worse than the other.
Dreadlocks are incredibly cool, and more rare in character design than a scarf or cloak that often gets used to similar effect, do not want the Alien having any of them though.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 07, 2023, 06:36:22 AMDreadlocks are incredibly cool, and more rare in character design than a scarf or cloak that often gets used to similar effect, do not want the Alien having any of them though.
Jeri the Alien could use a cloak ;)
I actually hadn't even thought about the jockey inheritance thing...it's always nice when you learn something new and shame on me :D
As far as the heated discussion is concerned, I also think that we can never really clarify it, because everyone has their own opinion and has to be accepted.
I also tend to write quite a lot and I wonder if the filmmakers are sometimes amused by the theories being put forward and discussed here.
Most of the time it is certainly the case that a decision is made simply for visual reasons and has no deeper meaning whatsoever. Fans often try to find the best explanation for this and that is one of the reasons why we are all here. We exchange opinions but at the end of the day we're all in the same boat because we love these films.
If I'm upset about a creature design or find a movie plot shitty, it's never against a person in a personal sense, but only against the decision itself or the opinion of it.
Surely sounds very cocky and know-it-all now
but at the end of the day we should stick together because without the fans these brands would be dead.
Quote from: SiL on Dec 07, 2023, 12:26:34 AMThere's a perfectly valid, consistent explanation given by the films:
Aliens collect traits as they go. Scott suggested it back in the 70s.
So Big Chap is Alien - Jockey - Human.
The Runner is Alien - Jockey - Human - Dog, and you can see the biomechanical details are taking a hit.
Alien Resurrection is awash with human. AvP and AvPR, there'd be no Jockey in the mix either, so they look similar.
Covenant even bares this out with the new Alien being fleshy and largely devoid of biomechanical detailing, as Engineer/Jockey hasn't been added to the mix yet.
Aliens have a basic shape but the detailing is a product of intergenerational trait collection. Each generation builds on the last, they don't reset.
Scott says a lot of things. He is the dude who said that a shredded Alien can completely regenerate from its little bits. Let's ignore that he turned the Space Jockey into a barely tall pale Greek God, but he took the potential of their history and showed us a lame single primitive city as their home civilization in Covenant.
He has never been about consistency and logic. He does what looks cool to him. He drastically changed not only the Space Jockey suit, but also the Derelict design, making it a lot less biomechanical in Prometheus/Covenant than in Alien. There was no great mastermind plan there, he did it just because.
But going with the Alien design implications, that means that through multiple Queens unleashed on Earth for example, we would get in a few generations the design from A:R to be the main/default variant? Disgusting...
And I agree with Xenomrph, I do not find the changes to the creatures in Aliens to be any less biomechanical. And the leg changes in Rez make little sense in going for a more human influence.
I see the potential of the hypothesis, it's interesting, but it does have holes IMO and the implication is pretty bad. I'm sure future series and movies will ignore this route eventually. A really biomechanical Alien will return sooner or later, I'm sure of it.
Quote from: Still Collating... on Dec 08, 2023, 09:55:58 PMBut going with the Alien design implications, that means that through multiple Queens unleashed on Earth for example, we would get in a few generations the design from A:R to be the main/default variant? Disgusting...
I agree it's disgusting.
But it's consistent with the films.
QuoteAnd I agree with Xenomrph, I do not find the changes to the creatures in Aliens to be any less biomechanical.
And yet they are. The hands and feet are fleshy.
QuoteAnd the leg changes in Rez make little sense in going for a more human influence.
They're still genetically mutated.
I'm not suggesting this is what's happening. I'm saying if you want an in universe explanation for the different designs, this fits the available information. That's all.
Quote from: SiL on Dec 08, 2023, 10:14:36 PMBut it's consistent with the films.
But that upsets people.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Dec 08, 2023, 10:25:04 PMBut that upsets people.
Acknowledging the AvP films will do that.
Quote from: Still Collating... on Dec 08, 2023, 09:55:58 PMI see the potential of the hypothesis, it's interesting, but it does have holes IMO and the implication is pretty bad. I'm sure future series and movies will ignore this route eventually. A really biomechanical Alien will return sooner or later, I'm sure of it.
This! 😅 The fleshy-morphs are as disgusting as the zombie Fifield lol I mean, I understand the logic too, but the end result is soooo disappointing.
So yeah, Giger alien please! someone? Mr. Fede? :)
How did we get from "Should the Predalien have the dreadlock or not?" to "Are the Xenomorph even Biomechanical at all?"
Please more Biomechanical Xeno, it the one of the things that make them unique in the first place.
I always thought the Resurrection Aliens looked contaminated not only with human DNA but also with Queen DNA...
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSVVbeBpLv7Y-TbKzUi36P5Eg4-5PrM79EexQ&usqp=CAU)
(https://www.metal-shop.eu/images/produkty/x_cpr903158.jpg)
That might explain the head shape, having no fifth back spine, and them being digitgrade.
Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Dec 08, 2023, 11:12:48 PMHow did we get from "Should the Predalien have the dreadlock or not?" to "Are the Xenomorph even Biomechanical at all?"
You asked for an in universe explanation for why they look the way they do in AvP, I gave one.
I wouldn't call the hands and feet in 'Aliens' "fleshy", and they still have some biomechanical bits. Sure I guess it's not as much as the one from the first movie, but the hands and feet in 'Aliens' look *less* human than Big Chap. That's where the theory falters a bit.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 09, 2023, 12:19:36 AMI wouldn't call the hands and feet in 'Aliens' "fleshy", and they still have some biomechanical bits. Sure I guess it's not as much as the one from the first movie, but the hands and feet in 'Aliens' look *less* human than Big Chap. That's where the theory falters a bit.
You'll notice I never said more human, just fleshier, otherwise I'd be suggesting that on a long enough time line the Aliens would just look like people, which is dumb.
Everyone's acting like I'm trying to convince anyone that this is the literal actual thought process running through the series. I'm not. It just addresses why mutants and AvP Aliens look similar.
Nobody is under any obligation to like it. It just explains what we see if people want an in universe explanation.
I for one don't. I don't care.
Quote from: SiL on Dec 09, 2023, 12:36:40 AMYou'll notice I never said more human, just fleshier, otherwise I'd be suggesting that on a long enough time line the Aliens would just look like people, which is dumb.
That's pretty much what tyranid genestealers do.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Dec 09, 2023, 01:32:25 AMQuote from: SiL on Dec 09, 2023, 12:36:40 AMYou'll notice I never said more human, just fleshier, otherwise I'd be suggesting that on a long enough time line the Aliens would just look like people, which is dumb.
That's pretty much what tyranid genestealers do.
Isn't it in reverse, though? Like you start with humans and then all of a sudden they've got a third arm or ridges on their forehead and if you wait long enough you end up with purestrain genestealers? I'm not as familiar with genestealer cults.
Nope. They get progressively more humanoid, with their fourth generation passing for human. The fifth generation resets back to their default.
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Genestealer#Generation_4_-_Primacii
Quote from: Local Trouble on Dec 09, 2023, 02:11:35 AMNope. They get progressively more humanoid, with their fourth generation passing for human. The fifth generation resets back to their default.
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Genestealer#Generation_4_-_Primacii
Huh interesting, thanks!
Should the Predalien tusks also be more alien like?
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-44C4frWlzcg/UONbVXA5sBI/AAAAAAAAFlo/5lLwNoigLww/s1600/avprconcept98.jpg)
I know it's the predalien signature but maybe something like this could be a unique aesthetic
Looks a bit too busy
Quote from: Wweyland on Dec 16, 2023, 07:31:16 PMLooks a bit too busy
I definitely agree definitely need some adjustments but the idea of the tux is staying with me tho change a little bit
I voted nay but honestly, my opinion on predalien "dreads" really depends on how they do it and if they explain why the Alien takes that trait. From the looks of the "dreads" on a predator, its not hair as its texture and appearance is smooth. So if there where to be an explanation on it as being some sort of sensory organ etc, then it would explain why it would be taken as a useful trait and it shouldn't be an issue. Of course it then depends on how its featured on the Predalien. Some look better than others.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Dec 19, 2023, 11:29:02 PMI voted nay but honestly, my opinion on predalien "dreads" really depends on how they do it and if they explain why the Alien takes that trait. From the looks of the "dreads" on a predator, its not hair as its texture and appearance is smooth. So if there where to be an explanation on it as being some sort of sensory organ etc, then it would explain why it would be taken as a useful trait and it shouldn't be an issue. Of course it then depends on how its featured on the Predalien. Some look better than others.
I'm not sure how to "explain" it narratively without it being ultra-clunky exposition dialogue. I mean I guess you could convey it visually by showing a Predator get its dreadlocks injured and have them bleed (conveying that it's not merely hair) and then show the PredAlien with dreadlocks (conveying that it's a dominant trait that DNA Reflex picks up on, like mandibles or whatever).
Yeah I think remember the "dreads" bleeding in one of the media formats. Can't recall which one now.
Predators I think? When Royce absolutely batters Berserker.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Dec 20, 2023, 12:00:17 PMYeah I think remember the "dreads" bleeding in one of the media formats. Can't recall which one now.
I think Blue is right that it's 'Predators'. It definitely happens in the comics.
With Dreads all the way for sure... see not only the mouth is iconic but the dreads have become a staple for the predators.
The dreads are screaming "We are taking the DNA thing too far". Might as well resurrect the stupid sheep alien with wool. Just make the damn thing 10 feet tall with some mandibles. This shouldn't be so hard. Or does it even have to have the damned mandibles? Just a bigger, faster, stronger, alien with some cool spot patterns maybe? Nah. I think mandibles are probably needed to set it apart a little more.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 08, 2023, 11:16:59 PMI always thought the Resurrection Aliens looked contaminated not only with human DNA but also with Queen DNA...
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSVVbeBpLv7Y-TbKzUi36P5Eg4-5PrM79EexQ&usqp=CAUhttps://www.metal-shop.eu/images/produkty/x_cpr903158.jpg
That might explain the head shape, having no fifth back spine, and them being digitgrade.
Never thought of it like that! I actually like that idea a lot, makes a fair bit of visual sense.
I like the idea of predalien but doesn't their very existence make it so that all species a facehugger latches onto create entirely new looking aliens? And if so are the xenomorphs that come from humans really an Alien or just another hybrid? I'm no lore expert so pls someone explain or just correct me if I'm wrong here.
Hybrid is not really an accurate term since the alien is simply doing what its nature is supposed to do, adapt and use host dna to grow. but yeah even a human born Alien is not the default, it is just another result of taking traits. So if one was to use the term hybrid for others, it would have to apply to human-borns too.
Maybe only the human strain consumes all available resources. Lol
Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Nov 18, 2023, 01:32:01 AMI saw this predalien concept art and it generally looks better, The only problem that I have is the spike on the tail looking too much like a scorpion and the dreadlocks what is that it looks great
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/avpr-concept-009-farzad-varahramyan.jpg
I've always liked this piece myself. It could just do without the dreadlocks at the end. The tail has never bothered me though. But those dreadlocks...
Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 05, 2023, 10:52:42 PMYeah this - dreadlocks might be more that mere hair - they bleed when cut, after all. They could be a sensory organ for all we know, and something so embedded in the Predator's DNA that DNA Reflex picks it up (just like the mandibles). There's no reason to believe PredAliens "shouldn't" have dreadlocks, that's a nonsense argument used to try and prop up one's personal aesthetic opinions.
I might be misremembering my scripts and finished products here, but isn't there something regarding The Predator that suggests they're sensory organs?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 07, 2023, 12:12:54 AMQuote from: SiL on Dec 07, 2023, 12:05:18 AMThe novel doesn't say that, just that they're preserving the most robust facehuggers and letting the others burn.
Wait, I swear there was a source that said the Predators tinkered with the lifecycle to speed it up.
Someone on IMDB back when the film came out made the claim that Paul Anderson said it at an event. Other people at that event stated he didn't.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 26, 2024, 12:44:10 PMI might be misremembering my scripts and finished products here, but isn't there something regarding The Predator that suggests they're sensory organs?
Wasn't in the Predator Hunting Grounds novel where Dutch managed to sneak up on a Predator and killed it with a knife from behind? If that is the case, then the dreadlocks fails to warn of danger from behind.
If this is the case, on one hand it's pretty badass that Dutch can sneak up on a Predator like that but on the other hand the Predator loses a cool ability to be not be easily ambushed from behind. Makes the deadly hunter that much more deadlier to deal with.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 26, 2024, 12:44:10 PMI might be misremembering my scripts and finished products here, but isn't there something regarding The Predator that suggests they're sensory organs?
AvP novel by Cerasini does.
I remember the lifecycle tinkering tidbit.
The most plausible explanation is P. Anderson is a hack.
Pro-dreads, but I prefer this design:
(https://www.scified.com/articles/aliens-vs-predator-2-primal-hunt-online-multiplayer-has-been-restored-54.jpg)
I would agree if the head was a bit longer, looks like half a alien head.
Also surely if the human born Alien comes out significantly taller and larger than a man, then the PredAlien should be significantly taller and larger than a Predator.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Mar 30, 2024, 12:25:28 PMAlso surely if the human born Alien comes out significantly taller and larger than a man, then the PredAlien should be significantly taller and larger than a Predator.
Exactly! That's one of my biggest issues. If an Alien somewhat dwarfs a human, a Predalien should do the same proportionate wise to a Predator. So taller and a bit bulkier (but not too much bulk). And the Predator head is quite larger. It's already thick and long. So a Predalien's head should be just as proportionately longer and wider compared to a human born Alien. Dreads or no dreads, fix the head shape and size first! The AvP2010 head design was a step in the right direction. A lot more could be done, but that was at least a start.
To be fair though, the Runner was similar in size to a human-spawned Alien despite coming from something smaller (dog) or larger (Ox) than a human.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Mar 30, 2024, 11:52:58 AMI would agree if the head was a bit longer, looks like half a alien head.
I think it makes sense its more Xeno looking, since even the Ox/ Dog/ Runner Alien looked mostly like a regular Xeno in Alien3, mostly. :)
Quote from: E. Shaw on Mar 30, 2024, 02:44:25 AMPro-dreads, but I prefer this design:
https://www.scified.com/articles/aliens-vs-predator-2-primal-hunt-online-multiplayer-has-been-restored-54.jpg
I dislike the AvP2 design for the most part, but one thing it nails is the mouth.
Quote from: E. Shaw on Mar 30, 2024, 08:37:22 PMQuote from: The Cruentus on Mar 30, 2024, 11:52:58 AMI would agree if the head was a bit longer, looks like half a alien head.
I think it makes sense its more Xeno looking, since even the Ox/ Dog/ Runner Alien looked mostly like a regular Xeno in Alien3, mostly. :)
I entirely agree with the statement, I think that's the main problem with the alien design is that they don't even remotely look like Xenomorph
Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Mar 30, 2024, 09:14:20 PMQuote from: E. Shaw on Mar 30, 2024, 08:37:22 PMQuote from: The Cruentus on Mar 30, 2024, 11:52:58 AMI would agree if the head was a bit longer, looks like half a alien head.
I think it makes sense its more Xeno looking, since even the Ox/ Dog/ Runner Alien looked mostly like a regular Xeno in Alien3, mostly. :)
I entirely agree with the statement, I think that's the main problem with the alien design is that they don't even remotely look like Xenomorph
In AVP Requiem or the art from AVP2 Expansion Pack?
I would say a little bit with AvPR, since that design looks like a mess, but AvP just doesn't look like a xenomorph. It's heavy looks like a human head with monsters feature, rather than xenomorph With predators features
Quote from: E. Shaw on Mar 30, 2024, 09:15:54 PMIn AVP Requiem or the art from AVP2 Expansion Pack?
Yes.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Mar 30, 2024, 02:19:09 PMTo be fair though, the Runner was similar in size to a human-spawned Alien despite coming from something smaller (dog) or larger (Ox) than a human.
Was it though ? It looks thinner than other xenos, and maybe a bit shorter, but still appear to be taller than the inmates and Ripley. It easily dwarfes Clemens who is a tall guy.
You just answered your own question. It's taller than a tall person.
Dreads...always.
No.
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExOXlpaHZjODNybWE2NTNqdWRjbm52Mnlub2E2eGY0aTkyZjQ4ZGVmayZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/xqcx0wPoof0Mi2lSDP/source.gif)
Hmm why not
I sure didn't expect people to keep posting in this thread (which is clearly a rip-off of another quite a bit more popular thread) almost 5 years later
Quote from: BigDaddyJohn on Apr 16, 2024, 09:31:04 AMHmm why not
Coz human/dog/ox aliens don't have hair/fur/whiskers/horns.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Apr 17, 2024, 10:47:48 AMQuote from: BigDaddyJohn on Apr 16, 2024, 09:31:04 AMHmm why not
Coz human/dog/ox aliens don't have hair/fur/whiskers/horns.
True. Should we keep the predator mouth instead then ?
Yes, but make it an actual predator mouth (like some have) instead of just the mandibles over human-ish/normal alien teeth.
I actually dig that.