Aliens: An Analysis

[ralfy]

He's a director, so he might get a nice end of year bonus. But clearly whatever he'd get through official channels pales to what he thinks he'd get circumventing his bosses.

I thought similar, and likely has more people than most imagine. He also essentially represented the company in the hearing, has access to military vessels and marine teams, and appears to be the sole individual who communicated with the colony. And that's a colony co-owned by the company and government, which as revealed in the same movie is very meticulous when it comes to monitoring things, and has mineral rights to the rock. My sense is that anything found on that rock also belongs to them, but the ones who discover it get a cut from revenues, and everyone else wages for whatever work needs to be done to acquire it.

In addition, later in the movie, after being caught Burke tells Ripley that if things work out both of them will be "set up for life."

Given these points, plus the fact that he could have only gotten the location during the hearing, which means that Ripley and the rest of the board also received the same, then it's highly unlikely that he worked alone. What's more likely is that there's a small group of people in both the company and the government that are involved, coming up with special orders requiring personnel to investigate alien organisms and materials, and each of them getting their respective cuts, which they believe will be big enough that they will be rich thanks to it. In addition, those working for them believe the same.

Finally, this idea is actually what started the ball rolling for the franchise: the company through its behavior revealing that such discoveries may lead to major revenues, and everyone else, from the Nostromo crew to the colony wildcatters, insisting that they get their cuts from the same.

Is it possible that Ripley and the board didn't talk about the location of the landing because they had no information about it?

From the board's point of view, if Ripley's story was true then the derelict's beacon would have been detected years earlier by whomever surveyed the planet for colonization.

Anyone else who detected the beacon would have been able to home in on it just like the Nostromo did, so they wouldn't even need the precise landing location.  But there was no beacon, so the board had no reason to believe the rest of Ripley's story.

It wasn't until Earth mysteriously lost contact with the colony that anyone besides Burke started to take her story more seriously and at least consider it a possibility.

Don't take my word for it, though.  This is from James Cameron's response to critics of Aliens on page 34 of Starlog #125:

Briggs' next problem was "Why do the colonists not pick up the derelict SOS?" by which I assume he is referring to the acoustic beacon broadcasting a "warning." As some readers may know, scenes were filmed but cut from the final release version of the film which depicted the discovery of the derelict by a mom-and-pop geological survey (i.e.: prospecting) team. As scripted, they were given the general coordinates of its position by the manager of the colony, on orders from Carter Burke. It is not directly stated, but presumed, that Burke could only have gotten that information from Ripley or from the black-box flight recorder aboard the shuttle Narcissus, which accessed the Nostromo's on-board computer. When the Jorden family, including young Newt, reach the coordinates, they discover the derelict ship. Since we and the Nostromo crew last saw it, it has been damaged by volcanic activity, a lava flow having crushed it against a rock outcropping and ripped open its hull. Aside from considerations of visual interest, this serves as a justification for the acoustic beacon being non-operational.

The beacon being operational isn't necessary because flight recorders are supposed to report landing locations, and according to van Leuwen they had the lifeboat flight recorder which did report that the Nostromo landed, then resumed course.

But what happened in the movie is that the flight recorder simply reported that the Nostromo landed and then resumed course. That's it. Had it recorded the location, then Ripley would have required the board to investigate the site first before resuming the hearing. Why? Because that's the only thing that can prove her story.

And given her conversation with van Leuwen after the hearing, it appears that they didn't talk about the location during the hearing, because it's only after that that she discovers the presence of the colony.

According to Cameron, Burke got the location from either Ripley's deposition or the lifeboat recorder. But that would also mean that not only did all of them in the hearing know the same info, Ripley would have questioned the board about that, i.e., investigate the location first to confirm her story before questioning her further.

Thus, we have the ff. from the movie.

The location was known by Ripley and the board (which includes Burke) because Burke could not have gotten it from any other source. The likely source is the lifeboat flight recorder, which for some weird reason was running all the time the Nostromo was journeying.

But during the hearing, van Leuwen states that the recorder only shows that the Nostromo landed and resumed course. There is no mention where it landed, which is why Ripley had to start talking about what they encountered and what happened to them, which is pointless because there are no ship logs to support her claims. That's why the board concludes that her story can't be proven.

It's only after the investigation is closed that Ripley decides to ask van Leuwen to investigate the location; in short, she's too late. Van Leuwen dismisses her request, stating that they had a colony there for decades and it saw no ship.

Ripley is shocked to find out about the colony, which means the location had not been discussed during the hearing. If it had, then she would have not be surprised by information about the colony.

In addition, van Leuwen didn't state that they had investigated the location, only that they didn't have to because the colony there never complained. But that can also mean that they never investigated the location throughout the two decades, which is why they never reported seeing the ship.

[ralfy]

Since several decided to raise about the discovery of the derelict ship in another thread, then I hope you don't mind if I raise them here because they involve more than just the argument that the company is "nefarious".

Without the deleted scenes, we only know that Burke sent the colonists to the ship. From his defense of his actions to Ripley, he argued that the ship might not have existed, that he didn't want to alert the Administration and create "a major security situation", and with that there would be no "exclusive rights." Thus, he caused the colonists to be infected and that was a "bad call."

Concern over "a major security situation" negates the belief that the ship might not have existed, as the former implies that one should assume that it exists.

Since the rest of the board had the same information and would also have acted on the matter, then the point of "a major security situation" becomes irrelevant. In addition, if "Administration" refers to a government agency, then there's no point in avoiding them from stepping in if the colony is a joint project of the company and of the government, and that the whole rock (i.e., if "mineral rights," or everything in and on the rock) belongs to the two partners (by "joint project" I assume that it's a private-public partnership venture).

About "exclusive rights," there can't be any for anyone who finds the ship if "mineral rights" refer to everything in and on the rock. That means everything found belongs to the company and government; those who discover them get compensation; hence, percentages not only for Burke and the Jordens but even for Ripley, as part of the Nostromo.

This leaves us with the only reason for a "bad call," which is to send a wildcat crew that decided to enter the ship, and thus get infected. This time, let's use the deleted scenes: Simpson clearly states that all they were told was to investigate a grid reference and report back what they find. He also tells Lydecker to tell the Jordens that whatever they find is theirs. I don't think that's right given mineral rights, the point that the Jordens were ordered by the company to investigate (which means they're working for the latter), that it would have been highly illogical for company and government to allow one family to gain exclusive rights to such a find, and that even Burke would be at the mercy of the same family as they would decide how much Burke would get.

Thus, the Jordens would have gotten a cut (rather than everything belonging to them), together with Burke. The rest would get wages for future operations on the alien artifacts and organisms, and most of the profits would go to the joint owners of the colony and of the rock.

The problem is that if a claim applies to just finding the ship. Given what happened in the first movie, it appears that discovery requires entering the ship and then claims may be made on what one finds inside it. That means anyone who finds the ship has to enter it in order to get a cut.

Burke and his cronies already know what to expect given what Ripley reported. It's irrelevant that they doubt Ripley's claims, because if they bother to investigate part of it in the first place, then they assume the rest. That is, if such as ship exists, then they'll have to assume that Ripley is right about eggs and facehuggers. In which case, they have to come prepared.

Thus, Burke's "bad call" involves sending in a team that's not prepared, and given what Simpon said, was not informed. Given the point that there's no rush (the colony never found the ship after twenty years on the rock) then he could have come in the next ship carrying supplies for the colony with a team of company specialists.

As for Ripley, it looks like her definition of "bad call" is different, as she implicitly points out even as early as the hearing that she wants no one near the alien ship, and that it should be destroyed. If so, then both company and government would have probably just dropped all charges, give her back pay, etc., a promotion, and so on, and then conduct the expedition without her but using the information she could provide on "disks".

[ralfy]

Additional points for the analysis following discussions in another thread on the Sulaco.

The Sulaco and an armed contingent were sent but some still argue that they believe it only involved a downed transmitter.

In order several of the points raised earlier to be supported, then that can only mean that the transmitter went down right after the Jordens returned due to something other than infestation. That means they sent no reports on what they discovered or even distress signals, and yet managed to retrieve living and dead facehuggers, as seen in what the group found in the lab.

If the transmitter went down because the aliens overwhelmed the colony, then that means they chose not to send any reports or distress signals, or that only Burke had access to that. That makes no sense because the colony was involved in a very expensive project funded by both the company and the government, and that meant they would have access to everything about it. In which case, Burke wasn't working alone but working for the company and government top officials: they all knew what he knew. He was their point man, and in return he would get a percentage from discoveries.

That's also why Burke managed to send an armed contingent specializing in "bug hunts." He and his superiors knew what happened to the colony and needed someone like Bishop to retrieve specimens and artefacts, with the armed contingent needed to protect them. That's also why there was no support crew and more medical personnel accompanying them, as they likely believed that following Ripley's report on what happened to the Nostromo, the colony had already been overwhelmed. Any support crew they needed involved those needed to help the team get what the company and government officials wanted.

These points also support the issue of where Burke got the information on the location of the alien ship, which is what started the story of the second movie. There is no other source for getting that except for logs in Ripley's lifeboat. But that also means all of the officials in the inquest (not just Burke) and even Ripley herself would have access to the same. Given that, it's highly unlikely that Burke would have acted alone.

What's odd is that given that all of those officials would have done the same thing as Burke, which is to ask the colony to investigate the location. After all, they had a lot of money tied in the terraforming project, and would make more given such a discovery. And yet, if we are to believe that Burke acted alone, they didn't. What makes matters worse is that Ripley herself would have been privy to the same information as that would have been afforded to her so that she could defend herself. She could have argued that they investigate the location to prove or disprove her point, but she does it too late and, worse, accepts the officials' excuse that they don't have to because there's been a colony there for decades and they didn't see anything. Not only is that argument wrong and Ripley accepts it, she also didn't know that there was a colony on the rock until after the hearing and she was found guilty of making things up. She probably should have gotten a lawyer. LOL.

It gets even worse: Burke approaches her and asks for help but adds that it's probably just a downed transmitter. But they ask for her help anyway, wants to send an armed contingent, and later has her write a report for the Marines to study. In return, her flight status would be restored. If any, that reverses the conclusions given in the hearing. Did Ripley consider any of those?

Given that, here's what they should have done, i.e., to make sure that the story remains logical:

They knew the location of the alien ship and what happened to the colony. There's nothing more they could have done for the latter.

Make Burke the point man and representing company and government interests.

Just get a full brief from Ripley, unless they think they can get more from her. Drop all charges, reinstate her flight status, give her more compensation, and see if she can help. If she is needed, then leave her on the Sulaco and then contact her only for advice. Make sure that she does not sabotage the mission.

Send a combination of Marines with armed company security and technical, scientific, etc., teams. Make it clear that the security part is under military jurisdiction but anything else following Burke.

Use more than one ship and several dropships, with one group to the colony and the other to the alien ship. Do things "by the book" but assuming that the colonists have been wasted, so be methodological, e.g., cordon off certain areas, come up with fortified base camps with supply lines, secure against what Ripley was warning about, come up with redundancies, and probably use "artificial persons" with any "fear" chips turned off, as facehuggers likely won't go for them (or maybe use robots, similar to those used to enter Ripley's lifeboat at the beginning of the movie).

Where does the entertainment come in? Bring in mistakes and character flaws, just like in the movie. For example, they already did that when an unprepared wildcat crew was sent, they probably no second and backup transmitters (unless those went down, too?), sent a team that doesn't look adequate given Ripley's point that there were reportedly hundreds of eggs in the alien ship, sent only one team when they had to consider both the colony and the alien ship, a briefing from Ripley but nothing about the colony, as they had to look at the blueprints after they arrived, and from which they would have gathered connections between failed systems and nuclear power sources (!) nearby, the colony and Marines probably not transmitting any reports to the company and government after finding the facehuggers, and likely with both telling them to wait until reinforcements arrive (similar happened in the third movie), etc.

[ralfy]

One more point: given what happened in the third movie, where they were in frequent communication with the company, then it looks like there is either inconsistent technological development or incredible levels of design and human flaws in their systems. Some examples, and partly referring to the other movies:

The Nostromo shows logs only of ship landing and location. It doesn't point out that the computer made changes in the course and that it detected distress beacons. And for a computer that's supposed to handle not only logs but automation while the crew is in cryosleep, also doesn't keep logs of what science officers are handling, or medical conditions of crew members. Meanwhile, it contains databanks of info and can even provide advice to the crew on what to do, and in some cases won't without proper authorization.

Presumably, the same computer would also be seen in the Sulaco, and probably with even more features as it's a military vessel with even more features, and decades ahead of the Nostromo. In which case, transmissions from the Marines in the colony would have been sent easily to the Sulaco, and then relayed to the company and government. That means they would have been privy to what was happening up to the point in which they found Newt and the facehuggers. That would have been more than enough to corroborate Ripley's claims. One can even argue that Ripley would have required Burke to contact the company and government immediately about that.

More important, given the point that the Marines and Burke work rationally (which should be the case as the first involves the military and the other part of a large, for-profit corporation), and they would have not hastened in their mission and waited for instructions from the company (as Burke is guaranteed of his percentage and would have wanted to see success in the mission) and government (which is how the military operates given a chain of command). Likely, they would have first called for a fortified base to be set up first outside the colony, and to bring in more ships, especially given what started all of this in the first place, which is the alien ship.

Perhaps they were rushing to save the colonists. But Ripley would have informed them given the little she got from Newt and what happened to Kane about what happened to the colonists. Also, recall that Gorman implicitly supports her because she orders the team to study her report, and the unit, too, as it specializes in "bug hunts." In which case, they could have used something like the robot that was used at the beginning of the movie that was used to check Ripley's lifeboat (remember that?). For some reason, though, salvagers use them but Marines don't: they just barge in and then see what happens.

Given that they prepared given Ripley's report, then they would have also had access to blueprints of the colony, which meant they would have known the location of things like nuclear reactors, rather than realize it after. And yet following the movie they are able to see the layout of the colony only after they land, and even then don't see that the colonists are huddled near a reactor.

As mentioned in the other thread, presumably vessels and facilities should have enough resources as well as redundancies. And yet for some weird reason the Nostromo does not have enough lifeboats for the crew (and which the crew would have realized before the journey, which means it's something they weirdly accept) and the colony does not have second and backup transmitters. With a reactor nearby, one would assume that colonists would have various shelters away from it, with various provisions and even things like transmitters, in case something goes wrong with the reactor.

In any event, all of these flaws exist to maintain the storylines of this and even the earlier movie, but they don't look believable given the reasons I raised.

[City Hunter Yautja]

The weird thing is that even as officials claim not to have discovered indigenous life forms in numerous worlds, the marines also referred to having to deal with "another bug hunt." Also, if the colonists were sending reports to the company even as more of their people were being killed or captured by the aliens, then all the officials had to do before sending the Sulaco was connect those reports with what Ripley said.

My theory is Weyland sent both the colonists there to be hosts and sent the marines to help collect embryos; LV-421 being basically a living lab. They sent Ripley probably hoping she'd perish and all records of the Nostromo would be wiped.

In Covenant, David basically is going to create another Hadley's Hope.

[SiL]

That makes no sense. Why wait decades to investigate? Why wait for Ripley -- who everyone thought was dead -- to reappear and say something?

And Weyland-Yutani doesn't send the marines, the government does.

[City Hunter Yautja]

That makes no sense. Why wait decades to investigate? Why wait for Ripley -- who everyone thought was dead -- to reappear and say something?

And Weyland-Yutani doesn't send the marines, the government does.

It took decades to terraform LV-421 so that living hosts like the colonists could live there.

I don't think Weyland expected Ripley to reappear, remember she was found by a salvage crew and was drifting for 50+ years.

As for government and Weyland, I see them connected in the movies. Weyland Yutani is on all Hadley's Hope lab and etc. Goverment sends in The Marines, but Ripley says Weyland has a weapons division in Alien.

[Engineer]

*Lv-426

[Local Trouble]

It took decades to terraform LV-421 so that living hosts like the colonists could live there.

Who do you think set up the atmosphere processor?

As for government and Weyland, I see them connected in the movies. Weyland Yutani is on all Hadley's Hope lab and etc.

Weyland-Yutani is the primary employer and co-financier of the colony.  Of course their logo will be on everything.

[City Hunter Yautja]

It took decades to terraform LV-421 so that living hosts like the colonists could live there.

Who do you think set up the atmosphere processor?

As for government and Weyland, I see them connected in the movies. Weyland Yutani is on all Hadley's Hope lab and etc.

Weyland-Yutani is the primary employer and co-financier of the colony.  Of course their logo will be on everything.

I just assumed Weyland-Yutani and the government were entangled, basically symbiotic.   

[Local Trouble]

When it comes to LV-426, they basically are.  When it comes to the deployment of military forces and how they operate, the government has the final say.

[SiL]

They're not even kind of the government, they just manage day to day operations. Laws are the laws.

[Local Trouble]

I'd imagine there's at least one ECA rep and a colonial marshal at LV-426, neither of whom would answer to Weyland-Yutani.  Nor should they.

[City Hunter Yautja]

When it comes to LV-426, they basically are.  When it comes to the deployment of military forces and how they operate, the government has the final say.

Understood. So govt has final say, but couldn't Weyland go rogue and try to get their "f***ing percentage,"? Wasn't that what Burke was doing?

[Local Trouble]

They could try, but I can't imagine they'd be very successful.  While the prospect of making millions or even billions from exploiting the alien might be an enticing temptation for them, openly violating the law and defying the government while doing so would be profoundly stupid of them.