A case for 25 prisoners in Alien 3

Started by Hudson, Aug 14, 2013, 06:34:26 PM

Author
A case for 25 prisoners in Alien 3 (Read 4,915 times)

Hudson

Hudson

So I just watched Alien 3 yesterday and I was thinking again on the debate of whether there are 25 prisoners or 25 total people. I'm not sure if this is still in contention, but I wanted to plead my case anyway. The thing that has always gotten me is when Andrews specifically says "we have 25 prisoners here," or whatever the exact line is. I don't think there's any way he would associate himself with the prisoners, so I don't know why he would include himself in their numbers. He obviously hates them all. Clemens says the prison has been reduced to a "custodial staff of 25." I also don't think he would count himself among prisoner numbers as he seems sensitive about no longer serving time. That's just me, but I decided to list out everyone to see if it made sense that there were 25 prisoners.

I'm going to take the theatrical version as canon here, which I do anyway, and apply it to this "study." In the theatrical version I believe Dillon says "this makes ten" when he finds Arthur's body, totaling the victims of the explosion to ten people. In my opinion, that would leave fifteen other prisoners. I'm going to assume that the first person killed in the bait and chase sequence is indeed this "Vincent" character, even though he's not named in the theatrical version. It's not William because he pops up for a second after the shot of the Alien eating the guy. Also, I'm not going to count Frank in the number of explosion casualties, as I'm assuming that the Alien pulled him up into the vent and...ate him or something. I suppose if he fell off the ladder he would've been counted in the casualties though.

With 16 credited actors playing prisoners, there should be nine more prisoners in the mix from my standpoint. 6 names that don't have faces in the movie, and then three more who are unnamed period.

This is the total list of all named characters (if I'm not mistaken) from the film credits and from the script/novelization. I don't think I'm missing anyone, but anything's possible. So, if there are only 25 people there, everyone has a name.

1 Andrews
2 Aaron
3 Clemens
4 Dillon
5 Morse
6 Gregor
7 William
8 Troy
9 Eric
10 Jude
11 Kevin
12 David
13 Vincent
14 Ed
15 Christopher
16 Lawrence
17 Martin
18 Janni
19 Boggs
20 Rains
21 Golic
22 Murphy
23 Frank
24 Arthur
25 Junior

Now let me tally up the numbers of prisoners not killed in the explosion scene (theatrical version):

1 Dillon - lead mold
2 Morse - n/a
3 Gregor  - bait and chase
4 William - bait and chase
5 Troy - bait and chase
6 Eric - bait and chase
7 Jude - bait and chase
8 Kevin - bait and chase
9 David - bait and chase
10 Vincent - bait and chase
11 Boggs - "foraging"
12 Rains - "foraging"
13 Murphy - fan
14 Frank - ladder

People killed in the explosion when going off of Dillon's "this makes ten" statement:

1 Ed
2 Christopher
3 Lawrence
4 Martin
5 Janni
6 Golic
7 Arthur
8 Junior
9 Unknown
10 Uknown

With Frank on the list of people not counted in the explosion casualties, this makes 24 total inmates at the prison with two not being named. So, Andrews might possibly be counting Clemens among the prisoners when he says there are 25 of them, and leaving himself and Aaron out. Clemens might actually be counting himself as well. If Frank was included on the list of explosion casualties, then there would only be 23 prisoners total, and one unnamed person, so in this case Andrews and Clemens are both just ballparking a figure which seems unrealistic for people who maintain accountability of inmates.

Thoughts?






SM

SM

#1
I still go with 22 prisoners, 3 staff and Andrews line is a goof.  As you've said, there's only 22 named prisoners.  Additionally, if you study the first rumour control scene in the Assembly Cut, there's never any more than 22 prisoners.

Hudson

Hudson

#2
Quote from: SM on Aug 14, 2013, 11:29:55 PM
I still go with 22 prisoners, 3 staff and Andrews line is a goof.  As you've said, there's only 22 named prisoners.  Additionally, if you study the first rumour control scene in the Assembly Cut, there's never any more than 22 prisoners.

You counted!?

SM

SM

#3
A couple of different angles.

Sad, isn't it?



I figured if I could pinpoint more than 22, then there's a case for 25 prisoners.
In the credits Ed, Vincent, Janni, Lawrence, Martin and Christopher aren't named.  Mind you, guys like Ed, Vincent etc. are mentioned as 'Stunt E and 'Stunt V' in the script.  They would've been played by Simon Crane, Nick Gillard, Paul Jennings, Sean McCabe, Rann Miner and Mark Newman.  I think Val Musetti was the stunt Alien.

Hudson

Hudson

#4
But even if there are only 22, Dillon somehow miscounted ten people.

Local Trouble

I hope this is still up for discussion in another 20 years.

Hudson

Hudson

#6
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 15, 2013, 06:07:30 AM
I hope this is still up for discussion in another 20 years.

I'll still be proud to be a nerd in 20 years.

SM

SM

#7
Quote from: Hudson on Aug 15, 2013, 05:58:25 AM
But even if there are only 22, Dillon somehow miscounted ten people.

I'd include Frank and Vincent in that ten, since Vincent is absent from that point on.

Until he mysteriously re-appears only to die, of course...

Interestingly the scene where they ask permission to kill the Alien is scripted with:
FURY 161 - CLASS C - PRISON UNIT 12037154 -
REPORT DEATH OF SUPT.
ANDREWS, MEDICAL OFFICER CLEMENS,
EIGHT PRISONERS.

This would be:
Junior
Frank
Ed
Lawrence
Martin
Janni
Christopher
??

Doesn't factor in Murphy, Boggs or Rains.  And of the Stunt Prisoners, only Vincent rates a mention after the fire.

In the workprint however:
FURY 161
CLASS C PRISON UNIT 12097154
REPORT DEATH
OF SUPT. ANDREWS
MEDICAL OFFICER CLEMENS
ELEVEN INMATES

Same as above but including Murphy, Boggs and Rains - still one mystery unnamed prisoner.

This film was never meant to stand up to close scrutiny.

Local Trouble

Quote from: SM on Aug 15, 2013, 06:30:16 AM
This film was never meant to stand up to close scrutiny.

Unacceptable.  I will not be satisfied until every single aspect of this movie is reconciled with logic.  Like a Grand Unified Theory.

Hudson

Hudson

#9
Damnit. I'm too tired to think about this right now, but I really wish it was solvable.

SM

SM

#10
It's the Vincent Enigma (TM).

If he didn't magically show up out of nowhere at the start of the bait and chase - there'd be no problem.

Local Trouble

I was unaware of this issue until today.  Makes me feel inadequate as a pundit.  :(

Hudson

Hudson

#12
Quote from: SM on Aug 15, 2013, 06:46:02 AM
It's the Vincent Enigma (TM).

If he didn't magically show up out of nowhere at the start of the bait and chase - there'd be no problem.

Damn that son of a bitch. Damn him to hell.

Xenomrph

How much does the Assembly Cut change the numbers, where Golic and the black guy who gets his throat slit by Golic aren't presumably killed in the explosion?

Hudson

Hudson

#14
Quote from: Xenomrph on Aug 15, 2013, 11:37:11 AM
How much does the Assembly Cut change the numbers, where Golic and the black guy who gets his throat slit by Golic aren't presumably killed in the explosion?

Arthur.

And also, Junior gets killed in the explosion.

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