Neill Blomkamp's (cancelled?) Alien 5 project

[Russ]

But the way that the two characters were dealt with was as much of a hand wave as "oh, it was all a dream."

It's not even slightly the same. One is very much in keeping with the series - Ripley's daughter was dealt with in exactly the same way, "By the way, she died while you were asleep." It's a believable, and entirely likely scenario given the tone and themes of the series.

The other is an utterly ludicrous, fan-fictiony way of bringing back a character, more suited to kids' comic books where no one ever dies than a serious film series dealing with adult themes.

I can't believe we didn't think of this, but someone says "What if Burke was lying about Amanda Ripley."

Given Burke's track record, that's not an unlikely scenario because he wanted to set himself up as the only person Ripley could rely on, trust and be on her side. That opens the door for Amanda stories without the inconvenience of us knowing she dies.

Err... Yeah, heard of Alien: Isolation?

Thanks, HuDa, but really - I don't appreciate your arrogance and your condescension and let's not pretend that your post was anything other than that. It's becoming a trend with you - you should check your ego at the door.

Killing off an established character (characters) in such a way is hand wave. Maybe you missed that class in primary school. I agree, it serves  the plot of Alien3 but that's about all it does.

As for Alien Isolation, as I've stated many, many times, I am not really a gamer, so I've not played it. I don't know how Isolation deals with Amanda's known demise, I was merely saying I like the idea postulated on DoG.

If it did, then so did Alien. Putting aside the fact its the same imagery
The only happy thing about it, aside from the survival, is that the characters faced their nightmares thus perished their  trauma

In short, both films end with a shot of the survivor who went through hell but is now happily going home sleeping

Which the arc of those characters. Not great for everyone else that bought it, I'll grant you, but I think the key thing in Aliens is "can we dream/yes I think we both can" - as Ripley's nightmares a key motivation for her in that chapter. She's not "sole survivor" in this one (there's even the "sneak" gag at the end). It's a little lighter and for me indicates a happy(happier?) conclusion.

At that point, he had no reason to, whereas she would have had every reason to read up on whatever existed of records about her daughter's life in private. Amanda was literally her only surviving link to her old pre-nightmare life. Especially since she'd probably be paranoid about trusting a company representative's word, at that point.

Plus, she seemed to be in pretty much I've-wrapped-up-all-my-affairs mode before agreeing to accompany the Marines on their adventure.

I'm struggling with this - you're right of course, but why was Burke acting like such the nice guy at the front end, being all helpful and caring? He "acts" like he's on her side from the get go, even up to the "you had your chance, Gorman!" bit. whereas we know he's a self-serving sleazebag. I don't know the answer - but, I still like the idea that her demise is unknown to us.

[szkoki]

no matter what, Sigourney is too old for action movies  and i dont want to see new actor in that role. and Prometheus is the Alien franchise for a few couple years

[szkoki]

who would play Ripley and Hicks?

[HuDaFuK]

Killing off an established character (characters) in such a way is hand wave. Maybe you missed that class in primary school. I agree, it serves  the plot of Alien3 but that's about all it does.

I'm not saying Hicks' death wasn't cheap. I specifically said in my previous post they probably could've made a better sequel than what we got. But writing it off now as a bad dream is pretty childish. Especially when they could do so many other things with the franchise without going down that road.

As for Alien Isolation, as I've stated many, many times, I am not really a gamer, so I've not played it. I don't know how Isolation deals with Amanda's known demise, I was merely saying I like the idea postulated on DoG.

Fair enough. But either way, just a few months ago there you have one very significant example of a story featuring Amanda Ripley.

[Russ]

Given the current trend, probably people from big TV shows - who knew that Emilia Clarke would really resemble a young Sarah Connor.

[Kel G 426]

But writing it off now as a bad dream is pretty childish.

How about ignoring it altogether? 

[HuDaFuK]

How about ignoring it altogether? 

I'd actually far prefer that!

[Nightmare Asylum]

If Alien 3 was ever retconned that's the direction they'd go. There's no way they'd literally show Ripley waking up and saying "whoa, what a dream."

[Vrastal]

They should just start a new story arc. as long as its good

Can everyone be happy with new cast, new characters and new setting?

[Master]

I`d be. Like every film in series and don`t need any silly messing arround.

[predxeno]

If they ever wrote Alien 3 off as a dream then it would include not only A:R but A:CM as well, which I'm sure many fans will like.

[Xenomorphine]

Two totally different things. True, all on-screen portrayals of AVP so far have sucked, but that doesn't mean the concept doesn't have potential.

So does excusing the illogical teleporting egg and mysteriously appearing Nostromo cryotube, as a delusion. What amtters is the story which results from it - and it would at least allow us to preserve Weyland-Yutani and show the original egg chamber was explored. I still don't know why Whedon decided to effectively erase those two elements for the heck of it.

The "It was a dream!" argument is just infantile. I mean come on, I was taught how lame that is as a plot device in primary school.

I'm not saying they couldn't have made better sequels. But arbitrarily undoing what we got in such an immature fashion is silly.

Cheaply killing off Hicks/Newt could also be said to be infantile. Their deaths served no purpose which keeping them in stasis (or jettisoned off to an unknown separate location) couldn't have also achieved.

Ultimately, retconning a previous film is essentially a way to rectify bad plot decisions. But as I say, it is a gamble. After so very long, I wouldn't feel comfortable with anyone making such a gamble (and that includes Cameron, because his movies after 'The Abyss' feel like they're helmed by a completely different creative visionary).

I'm struggling with this - you're right of course, but why was Burke acting like such the nice guy at the front end, being all helpful and caring? He "acts" like he's on her side from the get go, even up to the "you had your chance, Gorman!" bit. whereas we know he's a self-serving sleazebag. I don't know the answer - but, I still like the idea that her demise is unknown to us.

Yeah, but that's just it. He's self-serving. He doesn't have some kind of giant, over-arcing plan. He was being opportunistic. Even if he was lying about Amanda, it would've been a stupid move to pull, because Ellen could have - and would have - looked up information by herself from third-party sources.

Sure, another story could start out that way, but it doesn't strike me as in character for her not to have bothered to do that. Right after 'Alien', she was at her most paranoid about the company's intentions. In fact, it's probably that very motivation which caused her to double-check everything to the hilt and discover Burke sent the transmission for the colonists to investigate.

Also, look at it logically: If you're saying his motivation to lie about Amanda having adventures with Aliens, was to gain Ripley's trust, he in no way achieves that goal. She's constantly sceptical about anything the company says/does and apparently isn't even an employee anymore. He has to dangle employment as a lure to get her to go on the mission. Until she does, it looks like she's a free agent.

no matter what, Sigourney is too old for action movies  and i dont want to see new actor in that role. and Prometheus is the Alien franchise for a few couple years

I disagree. She was fine in 'Cabin in The Woods' and the following year's 'Vamps'. Not to mention 'Avatar' - and she's apparently signed up for future sequels to that.

What's the most athletic stuff Ripley's done, anyway? Run a bit fast and shot some guns?

[Vrastal]

Though in the long run i doubt they would retcon 3 or 4.  I hope they would have the sense to just start a new story.

[RakaiThwei]

Retconned crap.. Retconned crap.. Retconned crap.  The franchise has been retconned a bit too much and I just can't help but feel a little resentment towards it right now, especially since Prometheus came to the picture and I liked the movie at first. 

Stand alone movies that don't have links to the previous movies would do just fine.

[Visceral_Mass]

They should just start a new story arc. as long as its good

Can everyone be happy with new cast, new characters and new setting?

I'd prefer a reboot instead of them giving the franchise the TOHO Godzilla treatment.