Ever since Neill Blomkamp first revealed his concept art for his Alien 5 project, art that featured an aged and acid scarred Hicks and Aliens-esque looking Ripley, the question as to how Alien 5 will relate to the saga has been debated online. Talking to Sky News, Blomkamp and Sigourney Weaver talk about the new film being a “genetic sibling” to Alien and Aliens:
They don’t specifically state that Alien 5 will be retconning Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection, however, it sounds like a strong possibility. It may also be that he is speaking in terms of the tone of the films. Or it may simply be the same sort of approach Nimrod Antal and Robert Rodriguez took with Predators not acknowledging Predator 2.
Update #1 – The video has now been set to private. I’m attempting to find an alternative.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 25, 2015, 08:58:36 PMOr it may simply be the same sort of approach Nimrod Antal and Robert Rodriguez took with Predators not acknowledging Predator 2.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 25, 2015, 09:02:59 PMQuote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 25, 2015, 08:58:36 PMOr it may simply be the same sort of approach Nimrod Antal and Robert Rodriguez took with Predators not acknowledging Predator 2.
That's impossible if it includes Ripley and/or especially Hicks. Hey, maybe it'll cement A:CM into canon where it belongs!
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 25, 2015, 09:10:53 PMQuote from: Local Trouble on Feb 25, 2015, 09:02:59 PMQuote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 25, 2015, 08:58:36 PMOr it may simply be the same sort of approach Nimrod Antal and Robert Rodriguez took with Predators not acknowledging Predator 2.
That's impossible if it includes Ripley and/or especially Hicks. Hey, maybe it'll cement A:CM into canon where it belongs!
Hell yeah bro! Let's cheapen this franchise even more! High five dude!
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Feb 25, 2015, 09:13:59 PM
Alien 3 isn't going anywhere. Even if I love this. Don't see what the problem with a different take would be.
Quote from: szkoki on Feb 25, 2015, 09:27:18 PMcool lets make a completely new Star Wars Episode 4 and 5 movie then!
Quote from: Ultramorph on Feb 25, 2015, 09:42:40 PM
Interesting, but it's so early for people to get too upset or excited. Directors attach and detach from projects all the time, and who knows what will happen with this project if Chappie doesn't perform well at the box office. Like I said in one of the other threads, it'll be 2017 at the earliest before some incarnation of this project hits theaters, assuming it doesn't die like previous Alien 5s that Fox has had in the works. There's so much up in the air.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Feb 25, 2015, 09:40:21 PM
Still no indication of what the story could be...
As I've said before, I have no issue with the third and fourth movies being retconned, providing it's done well. That's the big gamble. If it is, then good luck to them.
What's interesting is that Weaver's apparently been clued into the story and seems to like what's planned. not necessarily an indication of quality, of course, but it sounds as if she at least feels Ripley's portrayal would be presented as in character.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Feb 25, 2015, 10:50:31 PM
Alien³ is Dead.
What? Too soon?
Quote from: Rankles75 on Feb 25, 2015, 10:51:27 PMDeclared DOA huh?Quote from: whiterabbit on Feb 25, 2015, 10:50:31 PM
Alien³ is Dead.
What? Too soon?
20 years late... :)
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Feb 25, 2015, 09:13:59 PM
Alien 3 isn't going anywhere. Even if I love this. Don't see what the problem with a different take would be.
Quote from: UHF on Feb 26, 2015, 02:57:37 AM
I've lived with Alien 3 for 23 years of my life. I think it does matter if they retcon the films, and even though we'll physically still have them, in spirit they'll mean nothing.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Feb 26, 2015, 03:52:16 AM
A retcon on it's own is not lazy. How it's executed might be. There is a huge creative cavern between those two points that needs to be kept in mind. If Blomkamp has enough pull here and can keep things focused, and if he is indeed doing a retcon, then it'll probably work out fine. However, if Fox starts meddling... Well, things could turn out disastrous.
Quote from: Vermillion on Feb 26, 2015, 04:30:11 AM
Unfortunately, that is what is going to happen.
Fans pay.
Quote from: DaddyYautja on Feb 26, 2015, 05:41:37 AM
So this is going to be like Prom all over again where this was an Alien movie but it wasnt but then it was again? But it wasnt?
Ugh.
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 26, 2015, 05:36:30 AM
I think you guys are getting hyped up over a misinterpretation. Don't be surprised when its confirmed that Blomkamp's film will be set after Resurrection.
Quote from: PsyKore on Feb 26, 2015, 06:22:16 AMQuote from: marrerom on Feb 26, 2015, 05:36:30 AM
I think you guys are getting hyped up over a misinterpretation. Don't be surprised when its confirmed that Blomkamp's film will be set after Resurrection.
It could go either way. Sigourney's talked a lot about finishing Ripley's story after Resurrection, so I wouldn't be surprised if Blomkamp re-wrote to accommodate that. But it's not impossible that a retcon of sorts could happen. Personally, I think "genetic siblings" is more referring to tone, style, aesthetics, etc. But still, it's all very vague at the moment.
Quote from: CainsSon on Feb 26, 2015, 07:24:56 AM
I will also call it now: If this gets retconned, what you will end up with is fans endlessly shredding apart what aspects of the mythology no longer make sense, like the star wars prequels.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 26, 2015, 07:47:28 AMQuote from: CainsSon on Feb 26, 2015, 07:24:56 AM
I will also call it now: If this gets retconned, what you will end up with is fans endlessly shredding apart what aspects of the mythology no longer make sense, like the star wars prequels.
Is that a warning or a promise?
Quote from: Intrepid-Traveler on Feb 26, 2015, 08:47:38 AMBlomkamp is the best thing that could happen to this series.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 26, 2015, 08:50:16 AMQuote from: Intrepid-Traveler on Feb 26, 2015, 08:47:38 AMBlomkamp is the best thing that could happen to this series.
Even as a fan of his, Blomkamp's track record is far from cemented. His first film was amazing, but his second - and I say this as someone who enjoyed it - was pretty mediocre. I get the feeling Chappie will either be a return to form or proof that he's a one-tick pony.
Quote from: Intrepid-Traveler on Feb 26, 2015, 09:07:19 AMHaven't seen Elysium, but I from the people I've talked to they liked it enough.
Quote from: Intrepid-Traveler on Feb 26, 2015, 09:07:19 AMI think Chappie will be fantastic and I love that he's one of the only directors thats into the cyberpunk aspect of science fiction.
Quote from: Intrepid-Traveler on Feb 26, 2015, 09:07:19 AMEven if its a near carbon copy of Aliens, I really wouldn't mind that.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 26, 2015, 09:15:59 AMQuote from: Intrepid-Traveler on Feb 26, 2015, 09:07:19 AMEven if its a near carbon copy of Aliens, I really wouldn't mind that.
That's exactly what I don't want. I want a Blomkamp movie. In the same way the existing films are very much in the style of their respective directors.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 26, 2015, 09:22:50 AMHell yes, high a five.
Alienkamp
Quote from: Bender on Feb 26, 2015, 10:25:54 AM
Thanks for clarifying that it is nowhere stated that it will rewrite Alien 3 and 4. IGN claimed it and and everybody keeps repeating it like the truth.
Quote from: Taxemic on Feb 26, 2015, 10:07:15 AM
I can't see the video as it's private. However I think this is good news. I'm not prepared to let go of Alien3 yet but f*** Ressurection.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 26, 2015, 11:07:58 AMThing is that artwork might not even be representative of the actual story. It doesn't always. I think if you take that artwork as gospel to what he's doing you might be disappointed.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 26, 2015, 11:21:18 AMQuote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 26, 2015, 11:07:58 AMThing is that artwork might not even be representative of the actual story. It doesn't always. I think if you take that artwork as gospel to what he's doing you might be disappointed.
Blomkamp has actually said the concept for the film changed after talking to Weaver. Of course, we don't know if the artwork is from before or after those changes were made...
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Feb 26, 2015, 11:40:56 AMEvidently it was after.
Blomkamp spoke to Weaver in early January 2014 on the Chappie set. The artwork was only commissioned during Chappie's post-production phase.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 26, 2015, 12:13:46 PMQuote from: The Eighth Passenger on Feb 26, 2015, 11:40:56 AMEvidently it was after.
Blomkamp spoke to Weaver in early January 2014 on the Chappie set. The artwork was only commissioned during Chappie's post-production phase.
I dunno, I still think it would be unusual for them to release artwork of stuff they're actively pursuing. Studios like to keep that kinda thing under wraps.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 26, 2015, 12:13:46 PMQuote from: The Eighth Passenger on Feb 26, 2015, 11:40:56 AMEvidently it was after.
Blomkamp spoke to Weaver in early January 2014 on the Chappie set. The artwork was only commissioned during Chappie's post-production phase.
I dunno, I still think it would be unusual for them to release artwork of stuff they're actively pursuing. Studios like to keep that kinda thing under wraps.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Feb 26, 2015, 12:40:57 PM
People said the same thing about Deadpool, and yet here it is! It's a comin' like a train in the night...! :laugh:
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 26, 2015, 01:06:04 PM
Is there a Deadpool script floating out there already? If so, is the new film doing that?
Talking about the specifics.
Quote from: GQSioux on Feb 26, 2015, 08:47:27 AM
This whole thing is also a huge gamble. Neill is talking pretty big if he really is making an entry that will act as a new Alien 3. If that's the case, it better be damn good and live up to Aliens like he hints. Anything's possible. It's possible this could suck MORE than Alien Resurrection. If that ends up being the case, this will all be a huge waste, all in vain, with the timeline totally f**ked with for nothing. And we'll be back to square one with fans whining over yet another subpar Alien movie.
Quote from: irn on Feb 26, 2015, 01:21:11 PMAbsolutely. The risk of turning the franchise into a total clusterf**k is far too high with retconning. Every sequel/prequel/reboot of every classic franchise in the last 15 years puts the odds very strongly in favour of it not being a good film. I wish it wasn't so but that's just the way it is.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Feb 26, 2015, 01:18:33 PM
So it's not out of the realm of possibility that something like that could happen here, or, already has.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 26, 2015, 02:12:27 PM
Unless he flat out ignores it.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 26, 2015, 02:15:34 PMAs I said, it could mean anything. I'm more inclined to think he means tonally more than anything else at this point.
Quote from: shakermakerman on Feb 26, 2015, 02:35:11 PMRobert Rodriguez said it him self mate and you know it...
Quote from: shakermakerman on Feb 26, 2015, 02:35:11 PM
Robert Rodriguez said it him self mate and you know it... but any way it sounds like Alien3 and Resurrection are going to be rubbed out and quite frankly I love to see Ripley and Hicks back together..
Quote from: shakermakerman on Feb 26, 2015, 02:42:12 PM
Oh well we will have to wait and see, think the not knowing is killing us all right now :D.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 26, 2015, 03:09:13 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/feb/26/alien-neill-blomkamp-sigourney-weaver (http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/feb/26/alien-neill-blomkamp-sigourney-weaver)
If it's true - which I have no reason doubt - then yeah, this is likely to be a retcon after that comment.
Quote from: Hudson on Feb 26, 2015, 03:26:58 PM
Just thought I'd pop in here to comment on Alien 3 and Resurrection being "retconned out of existence."
They will still exist...
Quote from: Hudson on Feb 26, 2015, 03:26:58 PM
Just thought I'd pop in here to comment on Alien 3 and Resurrection being "retconned out of existence."
They will still exist...
Quote from: Hudson on Feb 26, 2015, 03:26:58 PMThey will still exist...
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 26, 2015, 03:32:30 PMQuote from: Hudson on Feb 26, 2015, 03:26:58 PMThey will still exist...
That doesn't mean we have to be happy that a film many of us like very much is going to be written off and will therefore be null and void as far as the future of the franchise is concerned. It's not like nothing important happened in the third movie.
I mean, I hear what you're saying, but it's still an issue.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 26, 2015, 03:09:13 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/feb/26/alien-neill-blomkamp-sigourney-weaver (http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/feb/26/alien-neill-blomkamp-sigourney-weaver)
If it's true - which I have no reason doubt - then yeah, this is likely to be a retcon after that comment.
Quote from: Horrific Hominid on Feb 26, 2015, 05:08:36 PM
Then you are part of something much bigger that yourself and you should respect everything that's come before,
Quote from: Horrific Hominid on Feb 26, 2015, 05:08:36 PM
Retconning, unless done with the most absolute of care, is wrong and disrespectful. It's one thing if you're just batting out fan fiction in your bedroom, but it's a whole 'nother thing if you are hired on as an official writer in an established universe. Then you are part of something much bigger that yourself and you should respect everything that's come before, even if you don't like all of it.
Quote from: Omegazilla on Feb 26, 2015, 05:16:16 PM
Fact is, the general audience gives about zero shits about this whole ordeal. Most don't even remember there were films after Aliens; and those that do do not remember them fondly. This decision is only pissing off some long time fans -- a small portion of the overall target audience.
Quote from: TimmyTurnersDad on Feb 26, 2015, 05:22:03 PM
I dare say that the only man who hates Alien 3 more than my dad is David Fincher himself.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 26, 2015, 05:14:02 PMQuote from: Horrific Hominid on Feb 26, 2015, 05:08:36 PM
Then you are part of something much bigger that yourself and you should respect everything that's come before,
He is, hence why it's a sequel of sorts to the two best films in the series.
Quote from: Omegazilla on Feb 26, 2015, 05:16:16 PM
Fact is, the general audience gives about zero shits about this whole ordeal. Most don't even remember there were films after Aliens; and those that do do not remember them fondly. This decision is only pissing off some long time fans -- a small portion of the overall target audience.
Quote from: Omegazilla on Feb 26, 2015, 05:27:26 PMQuote from: TimmyTurnersDad on Feb 26, 2015, 05:22:03 PM
I dare say that the only man who hates Alien 3 more than my dad is David Fincher himself.(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg2.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20130215051024%2Fsmashbroslawlorigins%2Fimages%2Fd%2Fd1%2FTimmy%26%23039%3Bs_Dad.jpg&hash=e43daef63bf01fdb1570ff50cb284b827d35469c)
Alien 3...
Quote from: Horrific Hominid on Feb 26, 2015, 05:28:13 PMQuote from: DoomRulz on Feb 26, 2015, 05:14:02 PMQuote from: Horrific Hominid on Feb 26, 2015, 05:08:36 PM
Then you are part of something much bigger that yourself and you should respect everything that's come before,
He is, hence why it's a sequel of sorts to the two best films in the series.
A spiritual sequel is one thing. A fanboyish wank fest where a director ignores one-half of an entire franchise so he can play with real-life Ripley and Hicks action figures is something very different and very wrong.
Quote from: TimmyTurnersDad on Feb 26, 2015, 05:22:03 PMQuote from: Omegazilla on Feb 26, 2015, 05:16:16 PM
Fact is, the general audience gives about zero shits about this whole ordeal. Most don't even remember there were films after Aliens; and those that do do not remember them fondly. This decision is only pissing off some long time fans -- a small portion of the overall target audience.
Exactly. My dad is a huge fan of the series, and has been for years, even though he doesn't go on forums or chat about it. This is the most excited I've seen him react to news for an Alien movie in years. I dare say that the only man who hates Alien 3 more than my dad is David Fincher himself. I have heard stories about his reaction to seeing Alien 3 at the midnight premiere with my grandmother (his mother-in-law).
Personally? I'm more open-minded, though I do think that making this film a direct sequel to Aliens is the best route to go with. However part of why I'm really glad they're going in this route is for my dad. He got me into the series and I hate seeing him constantly get more and more disappointed with each new entry. I want to be able to go to the theaters in a few years from now and see the new Alien film with him and come out of it with him happy. Sentimental and/or biased on my part? Certainly.
Quote from: TimmyTurnersDad on Feb 26, 2015, 05:33:27 PM:laugh:
Exactly.
Quote from: CainsSon on Feb 26, 2015, 05:32:03 PMNone of the things you said actually changes my point.
Im not sure I agree with this,.. First, I will say again, I don't understand why it is necessary. And secondly, if the whole idea is to attract new fans and please the old, this will do neither.
[...]
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 26, 2015, 05:31:41 PM
Why? Because a small majority of fan boys are angry that a bad film and an even worse film are being ignored?
Quote from: Horrific Hominid on Feb 26, 2015, 05:08:36 PM
Retconning, unless done with the most absolute of care, is wrong and disrespectful. It's one thing if you're just batting out fan fiction in your bedroom, but it's a whole 'nother thing if you are hired on as an official writer in an established universe. Then you are part of something much bigger that yourself and you should respect everything that's come before, even if you don't like all of it.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 26, 2015, 05:41:47 PMQuote from: Horrific Hominid on Feb 26, 2015, 05:08:36 PM
Retconning, unless done with the most absolute of care, is wrong and disrespectful. It's one thing if you're just batting out fan fiction in your bedroom, but it's a whole 'nother thing if you are hired on as an official writer in an established universe. Then you are part of something much bigger that yourself and you should respect everything that's come before, even if you don't like all of it.
This!
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 26, 2015, 05:31:41 PM
Why? Because a small majority of fan boys are angry that a bad film and an even worse film are being ignored?
Quote from: Liberator on Feb 26, 2015, 05:33:42 PM
Yes. Alien 3 was beyond bad. I can't think of a worse movie.
Quote from: Rankles75 on Feb 26, 2015, 05:46:11 PMQuote from: Liberator on Feb 26, 2015, 05:33:42 PM
Yes. Alien 3 was beyond bad. I can't think of a worse movie.
Well, there was The Last Airbender, but A3 certainly runs it close...
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 26, 2015, 05:52:28 PMQuote from: Rankles75 on Feb 26, 2015, 05:46:11 PMQuote from: Liberator on Feb 26, 2015, 05:33:42 PM
Yes. Alien 3 was beyond bad. I can't think of a worse movie.
Well, there was The Last Airbender, but A3 certainly runs it close...
ALIENS trumps both.
Quote from: Horrific Hominid on Feb 26, 2015, 05:45:52 PMQuote from: DoomRulz on Feb 26, 2015, 05:31:41 PM
Why? Because a small majority of fan boys are angry that a bad film and an even worse film are being ignored?
It's still part of established canon and should be respected. If directors won't respect canon, then there's no point in making movie series' at all beyond incredibly self-contained stories like Hunger Games.
Quote from: Rankles75 on Feb 26, 2015, 05:53:32 PMQuote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 26, 2015, 05:52:28 PMQuote from: Rankles75 on Feb 26, 2015, 05:46:11 PMQuote from: Liberator on Feb 26, 2015, 05:33:42 PM
Yes. Alien 3 was beyond bad. I can't think of a worse movie.
Well, there was The Last Airbender, but A3 certainly runs it close...
ALIENS trumps both.
Keep taking the meds... :)
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 26, 2015, 05:31:41 PMThis.
Why? Because a small majority of fan boys are angry that a bad film and an even worse film are being ignored?
Quote from: Adam802 on Feb 26, 2015, 06:06:47 PMAnd this.
So no ripley 8..... Thank god!!
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 26, 2015, 06:07:27 PMYou don't need Fox's approval for a personal canon...
My only wish is that... Fox would allow us alternative canons.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 26, 2015, 06:07:27 PM
So this is indeed a retcon..
There is little reason to pay attention to the series anymore if this is the route they are going to go.
I am not much of an Alien fan as I am with Predator, but I've supported the Alien franchise for twenty one years. Twenty one long years. Had this decision been made sixteen years ago, I would've been fine with it but for a movie which can be considered an ending to a saga, and another which served as an epilogue-- to be erased is quite disheartening. Alien 3, while ill-received, gets a lot of undeserved hate-- from the audience, and from Fox themselves. The latter most especially considering what happened on the set.
And when the movie was released, it was not well received for a variety of reasons. The movie was depressing, the movie had killed off two fan favorite characters, the movie had a nihilistic heroic ending of Ripley's sacrifice, that it went back instead of gone forward.. Whatever. The movie served as a reminder that the Alien universe was a cold, unforgiving place as cruel as the creature it spawned. And Ripley's sacrifice had a meaning to it, the Alien had taken everything from her and when she had nothing to lose, she was able to finally defeat the creature which had haunted her for so long. Ellen Ripley died a heroine. That was the ending to the Alien saga.
Resurrection served as an epilogue to the ending. And while I thought that the film was boring, I can say that it's a movie that can be chosen to be ignored. After all, it's an epilogue rather than an actual ending which is what Alien 3 was. So people can choose to watch or ignore Resurrection. I don't have anything positive or negative to say about Resurrection though as I have not seen it within the last fifteen years though.
I am done... Will I see the Blomkamp movie? Probably but... I just feel like this franchise outgrew me as a fan. Whatever enthusiasm which I had is... pretty much gone at this point. I want to support the franchise, and I want to be a fan.. I feel like.. I don't know, I'm a "bad" fan for not supporting this decision. That I feel like I need to send in my membership card.
Will Alien 3 and Resurrection continue to exist? Absolutely. We can watch them over and over again, maybe even use the movies for whatever fan-fiction and roleplaying. But it just doesn't feel the same without them being part of the Alien-Predator universe.
Now keep in mind, I've nothing bad to say about the Blomkamp film, I'm sure it will be a hit with ALIEN fans. I mean I liked District 9 as a movie, but I've never seen Elysium. So I'm happy for you guys, but I'm a little saddened for the unrecognized diamond that is Alien 3. Resurrection, I could do without.
My only wish is that... Fox would allow us alternative canons. For more than one canon.. I care deeply about this franchise, and the fandom. I want to be happy with it, I want everyone to be happy. That's why I advocate for multiple canons but.. that's likely not going to be the case if ever at all.
Quote from: Omegazilla on Feb 26, 2015, 06:12:28 PM
You don't need Fox's approval for a personal canon...
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 06:14:52 PM
Don't worry, RakaiThwei, I doubt Fox will ever declare Alien 3 and Rez noncanon for fear of losing money selling those films if not the fan outrage that will descend on them. Personally, I like to see this retcon (if it is, indeed, a retcon) as a new opportunity in the franchise; we can finally clean the continuity up, while all the old EU, and AVP films, will be in the Alien 3 universe, the franchise can start over again with Alien (NB). Hopefully, this will be like the Star Wars decision to non-canonify all its stories in order to start with a cleaner, more orderly approach.
Quote from: Omegazilla on Feb 26, 2015, 06:12:28 PMQuote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 26, 2015, 06:07:27 PMYou don't need Fox's approval for a personal canon...
My only wish is that... Fox would allow us alternative canons.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Feb 26, 2015, 06:23:00 PM
Couldn't agree more, Omegazilla. Alternate canons are already an established fact. Alien 5 may be retconning 3 and 4, but the Resurrection-verse is still living on in the Titan novels. We're never going to get an "on screen" acknowledgement of a multiverse, though. That's more in the realm of superhero stories.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 26, 2015, 06:12:40 PMI remember reactions when it came out .... it wasn't good ..
This is ludicrous. Why do people keep putting Alien3 on a pedestal? The film was awful. It may have been nice to look at, but it was a lousy movie and as I've said one million times in the past, unnecessary.
Quote from: Horrific Hominid on Feb 26, 2015, 05:45:52 PMQuote from: DoomRulz on Feb 26, 2015, 05:31:41 PM
Why? Because a small majority of fan boys are angry that a bad film and an even worse film are being ignored?
It's still part of established canon and should be respected. If directors won't respect canon, then there's no point in making movie series' at all beyond incredibly self-contained stories like Hunger Games.
Quote from: CainsSon on Feb 26, 2015, 06:28:53 PMQuote from: Horrific Hominid on Feb 26, 2015, 05:45:52 PMQuote from: DoomRulz on Feb 26, 2015, 05:31:41 PM
Why? Because a small majority of fan boys are angry that a bad film and an even worse film are being ignored?
It's still part of established canon and should be respected. If directors won't respect canon, then there's no point in making movie series' at all beyond incredibly self-contained stories like Hunger Games.
^^^THIS. If you can just do whatever you want, you are basically lambasting the integrity of everything that comes before or after it.
Shit. Why not just ignore ALIENS and start at the end of ALIEN. Did it seem dumb when you read ALIEN: Out of The Shadows?
I enjoyed that read - but I considered it fan wank and didn't take it seriously whatsoever.
Just because I initially didn't enjoy Hicks getting killed, doesn't mean I carry on like a butt hurt spoled brat for 20+ years until 2 sequels are retconed to satisfy my urge for something that wasn't when I wanted it.
Remember how absurd and crazy it was to watch Katy Bates demand an author re-write his book screaming "YOU CAN'T KILL MY MISERY!!!!"
Congratulations everyone. That's now what we've accepted as normal.
Which of those Misery books, as a fan, would you have accepted as the real one? If your answer is both of them... INTEGRITY people. This series USED to have it.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 26, 2015, 06:32:53 PMSame thing they thought when making Alien3...
Quantity before quality = $$$
Quote from: shakermakerman on Feb 26, 2015, 06:37:28 PM
Ok then playing devils advocate, what gives someone the right just to right off someone else hard work and characters in sequels ? As Cameron said Alien 3 was a slap in the face to fans of hicks. Michael Biehn wasn't happy how Alien 3 was either.
Quote from: shakermakerman on Feb 26, 2015, 06:37:28 PM
Ok then playing devils advocate, what gives someone the right just to right off someone else hard work and characters in sequels ? As Cameron said Alien 3 was a slap in the face to fans of hicks. Michael Biehn wasn't happy how Alien 3 was either.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 26, 2015, 06:38:28 PMyup same goes for retconing bad mistakes :)Quote from: shakermakerman on Feb 26, 2015, 06:37:28 PM
Ok then playing devils advocate, what gives someone the right just to right off someone else hard work and characters in sequels ? As Cameron said Alien 3 was a slap in the face to fans of hicks. Michael Biehn wasn't happy how Alien 3 was either.
Fox owns the rights and it's their property. That gives them the right.
Quote from: Omegazilla on Feb 26, 2015, 06:38:10 PMQuote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 26, 2015, 06:32:53 PMSame thing they thought when making Alien3...
Quantity before quality = $$$
Quote from: Horrific Hominid on Feb 26, 2015, 06:41:04 PMQuote from: shakermakerman on Feb 26, 2015, 06:37:28 PM
Ok then playing devils advocate, what gives someone the right just to right off someone else hard work and characters in sequels ? As Cameron said Alien 3 was a slap in the face to fans of hicks. Michael Biehn wasn't happy how Alien 3 was either.
The difference is that Alien 3 did not get rid of the events of Aliens. While I too was kind of pissed at first at Hicks and Newt being killed, like was said earlier, it fits the tone of the series. Killing off characters is far less a crime than wiping away whole movies.
Quote from: ep40 on Feb 26, 2015, 06:39:18 PM
I think that events of Alien 3 and A:R cut all possibilities of continuing story further in a way that makes sense. Events of those movies presented the idea that Derelict was destroyed, there was no other source of Alien eggs etc... Alien and Aliens presented the source of shown Xenos being the Derelict but didn't say anything that there couldn't be another loaded with eggs Space Jockey spaceship crashed on some other planet. Starting anew only with Alien and Aliens as canon gives more freedom with story.
Quote from: shakermakerman on Feb 26, 2015, 06:37:28 PM
Ok then playing devils advocate, what gives someone the right just to right off someone else hard work and characters in sequels ? As Cameron said Alien 3 was a slap in the face to fans of hicks. Michael Biehn wasn't happy how Alien 3 was either.
Quote from: shakermakerman on Feb 26, 2015, 06:47:44 PM
Superman returns was a bad idea then???
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 06:44:18 PMQuote from: Horrific Hominid on Feb 26, 2015, 06:41:04 PMQuote from: shakermakerman on Feb 26, 2015, 06:37:28 PM
Ok then playing devils advocate, what gives someone the right just to right off someone else hard work and characters in sequels ? As Cameron said Alien 3 was a slap in the face to fans of hicks. Michael Biehn wasn't happy how Alien 3 was either.
The difference is that Alien 3 did not get rid of the events of Aliens. While I too was kind of pissed at first at Hicks and Newt being killed, like was said earlier, it fits the tone of the series. Killing off characters is far less a crime than wiping away whole movies.
I dunno about that, killing Newt off detracts the value of Ripley going through all those lengths to save her in Aliens; like it or not, her death hurt the 2nd film a bit.
Quote from: shakermakerman on Feb 26, 2015, 06:47:44 PM
Superman returns was a bad idea then???
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 26, 2015, 06:49:24 PMQuote from: shakermakerman on Feb 26, 2015, 06:47:44 PM
Superman returns was a bad idea then???
Yes.
Quote from: Horrific Hominid on Feb 26, 2015, 06:41:04 PMQuote from: shakermakerman on Feb 26, 2015, 06:37:28 PM
Ok then playing devils advocate, what gives someone the right just to right off someone else hard work and characters in sequels ? As Cameron said Alien 3 was a slap in the face to fans of hicks. Michael Biehn wasn't happy how Alien 3 was either.
The difference is that Alien 3 did not get rid of the events of Aliens. While I too was kind of pissed at first at Hicks and Newt being killed, like was said earlier, it fits the tone of the series. Killing off characters is far less a crime than wiping away whole movies.
Quote from: CainsSon on Feb 26, 2015, 06:52:39 PM
Keep in mind that the odds of his Alien 5 being as good as Alien and Aliens is slim. Very slim.
Quote from: hfeldhaus on Feb 26, 2015, 06:42:30 PM
Sadly no one can be surprised at them thinking of writing out two films. The Alien series has little to no integrity both in its fanbase and the controlling company.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 26, 2015, 06:49:24 PMQuote from: shakermakerman on Feb 26, 2015, 06:47:44 PM
Superman returns was a bad idea then???
Yes.
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 06:59:13 PMQuote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 26, 2015, 06:49:24 PMQuote from: shakermakerman on Feb 26, 2015, 06:47:44 PM
Superman returns was a bad idea then???
Yes.
What about Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles?
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 06:59:13 PMQuote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 26, 2015, 06:49:24 PMQuote from: shakermakerman on Feb 26, 2015, 06:47:44 PM
Superman returns was a bad idea then???
Yes.
What about Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles?
Quote from: CainsSon on Feb 26, 2015, 05:32:03 PMQuote from: Omegazilla on Feb 26, 2015, 05:16:16 PM
Fact is, the general audience gives about zero shits about this whole ordeal. Most don't even remember there were films after Aliens; and those that do do not remember them fondly. This decision is only pissing off some long time fans -- a small portion of the overall target audience.
Im not sure I agree with this,.. First, I will say again, I don't understand why it is necessary. And secondly, if the whole idea is to attract new fans and please the old, this will do neither.
Imagine what this will do to further boxed sets and interviews and to new fans who start watching the series from the beginning. It will be like, ok it ends w/ Alien 3 but then they made this A:R spin off and there's a cliffhanger that was never wrapped up, so then 20 years later they came back and retconned the third film so they could restart where they liked things? Why was that necessary?
I will say this again, every attempt to make the series more like what it was before, specifically in Aliens has been a step in the wrong direction and has arguably been what ruined everything after Alien 3. Take all the Aliens-ish stuff out of A:R and you have left all of the redeeming things in that script.
So here are the real questions I need to hear answered to take this in stride:
1. Why does it have to take place after Aliens and ignore 3 and 4?
2. Why can't it remain the spiritual successor to Aliens and still be a sequel to A:R (Just because people don't like it, is a lazy reason). It doesn't change that continuing on, it can still be a sequel.
3. Why can't it 'categorically' not feature what Ripley 8 was while still remaining a sequel to A:R? Why can't they just ignore A:R MOSTLY, but explain something away, in a way that doesn't detract from two other entires in the series?
I just have not heard a good reason and so I think we will end up with a bad film.
This is the same mistake all those PLATINUM DUNES remakes make. Its not that they are remakes, its that they attempt to reestablish the series, for instance FRIDAY THE 13th, to a place that it reached in stride after several sequels. And to do so it hamfists all this extra stuff to bring the film to where it once was, instead of letting its growth happen and it just feels forced.
Quote from: Magegg on Feb 26, 2015, 07:13:51 PM
"Genetic sibling", mmm... I prefer to take this as a hint that both Ellen Ripley and Hicks had twins and they will be the protagonists of the new movie...
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 26, 2015, 06:57:35 PMQuote from: hfeldhaus on Feb 26, 2015, 06:42:30 PM
Sadly no one can be surprised at them thinking of writing out two films. The Alien series has little to no integrity both in its fanbase and the controlling company.
What is that supposed to mean?
Quote from: Nazrel on Feb 26, 2015, 07:20:08 PM
Any previous EU that could have been cannon was washed away with the newet 3 novels werent they?
Quote from: Nazrel on Feb 26, 2015, 07:20:08 PMAny previous EU that could have been cannon was washed away with the newet 3 novels werent they?
Quote from: TimmyTurnersDad on Feb 26, 2015, 05:33:27 PMOh and THIS, before it gets buried.Quote from: Horrific Hominid on Feb 26, 2015, 05:28:13 PMQuote from: DoomRulz on Feb 26, 2015, 05:14:02 PMQuote from: Horrific Hominid on Feb 26, 2015, 05:08:36 PM
Then you are part of something much bigger that yourself and you should respect everything that's come before,
He is, hence why it's a sequel of sorts to the two best films in the series.
A spiritual sequel is one thing. A fanboyish wank fest where a director ignores one-half of an entire franchise so he can play with real-life Ripley and Hicks action figures is something very different and very wrong.
I'm rather amused at how so many people are assuming this is just going to be a fanboy wank fest. It could be, but I actually think a new sequel to Aliens could make for a great storyline.
Quote from: xeno-kaname on Feb 26, 2015, 07:33:12 PMQuote from: TimmyTurnersDad on Feb 26, 2015, 05:33:27 PMOh and THIS, before it gets buried.Quote from: Horrific Hominid on Feb 26, 2015, 05:28:13 PMQuote from: DoomRulz on Feb 26, 2015, 05:14:02 PMQuote from: Horrific Hominid on Feb 26, 2015, 05:08:36 PM
Then you are part of something much bigger that yourself and you should respect everything that's come before,
He is, hence why it's a sequel of sorts to the two best films in the series.
A spiritual sequel is one thing. A fanboyish wank fest where a director ignores one-half of an entire franchise so he can play with real-life Ripley and Hicks action figures is something very different and very wrong.
I'm rather amused at how so many people are assuming this is just going to be a fanboy wank fest. It could be, but I actually think a new sequel to Aliens could make for a great storyline.
Quote from: Nazrel on Feb 26, 2015, 07:33:37 PM
I jsut dont see how this can be anything but a clusterf**K
Quote from: Nazrel on Feb 26, 2015, 07:33:37 PM
I jsut dont see how this can be anything but a clusterf**KQuote from: xeno-kaname on Feb 26, 2015, 07:33:12 PMQuote from: TimmyTurnersDad on Feb 26, 2015, 05:33:27 PMOh and THIS, before it gets buried.Quote from: Horrific Hominid on Feb 26, 2015, 05:28:13 PMQuote from: DoomRulz on Feb 26, 2015, 05:14:02 PMQuote from: Horrific Hominid on Feb 26, 2015, 05:08:36 PM
Then you are part of something much bigger that yourself and you should respect everything that's come before,
He is, hence why it's a sequel of sorts to the two best films in the series.
A spiritual sequel is one thing. A fanboyish wank fest where a director ignores one-half of an entire franchise so he can play with real-life Ripley and Hicks action figures is something very different and very wrong.
I'm rather amused at how so many people are assuming this is just going to be a fanboy wank fest. It could be, but I actually think a new sequel to Aliens could make for a great storyline.
thats becasue a rewrittting an established story is a fanfic wankfest
Quote from: CelticPred97 on Feb 26, 2015, 07:42:28 PMMake it a dream. If you plan to set it between 'Alien 3' and 'Alien: Resurrection', make sure it is a dream. That doesn't contradict anything, plus it will exempt the film from any criticism in terms of differences and new things added contradicting. Any difference in the Alien's abilities can simply be explained by the fact that it's a dream. Though please don't edit the Aliens abilities.
Quote from: CelticPred97 on Feb 26, 2015, 07:42:28 PMhttp://www.scified.com/site/aliensvspredator/could-20th-century-fox-be-planning-to-retcon-the-alien-saga (http://www.scified.com/site/aliensvspredator/could-20th-century-fox-be-planning-to-retcon-the-alien-saga)
I just had an idea:
Make it a dream. If you plan to set it between 'Alien 3' and 'Alien: Resurrection', make sure it is a dream. That doesn't contradict anything, plus it will exempt the film from any criticism in terms of differences and new things added contradicting. Any difference in the Alien's abilities can simply be explained by the fact that it's a dream. Though please don't edit the Aliens abilities.
And please don't ruin the mystery of the Aliens. No showing them grow or something like that. Mystery is good. Modern filmmakers don't seem to understand that but it would be great if they could.
Quote from: Horrific Hominid on Feb 26, 2015, 08:02:44 PMI very much take issue with the idea that Resurrection was a dead end. You can have an excellent, exciting movie with the weird elements from that film.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 26, 2015, 08:04:49 PMQuote from: Horrific Hominid on Feb 26, 2015, 08:02:44 PMI very much take issue with the idea that Resurrection was a dead end. You can have an excellent, exciting movie with the weird elements from that film.
Yeah, I get people saying they didn't like it. But when people flat-out say there was nowhere to go afterwards like it's a definitive fact... What are they on about?
Quote from: CelticPred97 on Feb 26, 2015, 07:42:28 PM
Make it a dream. If you plan to set it between 'Alien 3' and 'Alien: Resurrection', make sure it is a dream. That doesn't contradict anything, plus it will exempt the film from any criticism in terms of differences and new things added contradicting. Any difference in the Alien's abilities can simply be explained by the fact that it's a dream. Though please don't edit the Aliens abilities.
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 08:08:05 PM
Not that I agree with them, but Aliens: Original Sin didn't really help out the case that Ripley 8's storyline could get any fresher. :-\
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 08:08:05 PM
Not that I agree with them, but Aliens: Original Sin didn't really help out the case that Ripley 8's storyline could get any fresher, Sea of Sorrows wasn't that great either. :-\
Quote from: Adam802 on Feb 26, 2015, 08:11:21 PM
There's nothing wrong with a new Alien movie that happens to take a different direction after ALIENS that shows what else could've happened. A3/A:R will still exist. Im loving the news coming out so far, I think it has a lot of potential and I think MOST people want this.
Quote from: hfeldhaus on Feb 26, 2015, 07:21:24 PM
Just that more people than I thought are willing to disregard two films, with one being an official ending to the main characters arc. Fox don't care for the franchise beyond money
Quote from: CainsSon on Feb 26, 2015, 07:26:07 PMQuote from: xeno-kaname on Feb 26, 2015, 07:08:24 PMQuote from: CainsSon on Feb 26, 2015, 05:32:03 PMQuote from: Omegazilla on Feb 26, 2015, 05:16:16 PM
Fact is, the general audience gives about zero shits about this whole ordeal. Most don't even remember there were films after Aliens; and those that do do not remember them fondly. This decision is only pissing off some long time fans -- a small portion of the overall target audience.
Im not sure I agree with this,.. First, I will say again, I don't understand why it is necessary. And secondly, if the whole idea is to attract new fans and please the old, this will do neither.
Imagine what this will do to further boxed sets and interviews and to new fans who start watching the series from the beginning. It will be like, ok it ends w/ Alien 3 but then they made this A:R spin off and there's a cliffhanger that was never wrapped up, so then 20 years later they came back and retconned the third film so they could restart where they liked things? Why was that necessary?
I will say this again, every attempt to make the series more like what it was before, specifically in Aliens has been a step in the wrong direction and has arguably been what ruined everything after Alien 3. Take all the Aliens-ish stuff out of A:R and you have left all of the redeeming things in that script.
So here are the real questions I need to hear answered to take this in stride:
1. Why does it have to take place after Aliens and ignore 3 and 4?
2. Why can't it remain the spiritual successor to Aliens and still be a sequel to A:R (Just because people don't like it, is a lazy reason). It doesn't change that continuing on, it can still be a sequel.
3. Why can't it 'categorically' not feature what Ripley 8 was while still remaining a sequel to A:R? Why can't they just ignore A:R MOSTLY, but explain something away, in a way that doesn't detract from two other entires in the series?
I just have not heard a good reason and so I think we will end up with a bad film.
This is the same mistake all those PLATINUM DUNES remakes make. Its not that they are remakes, its that they attempt to reestablish the series, for instance FRIDAY THE 13th, to a place that it reached in stride after several sequels. And to do so it hamfists all this extra stuff to bring the film to where it once was, instead of letting its growth happen and it just feels forced.
There's been so many good answers to the questions you're posing that it would be extremely repetitive to address each single one.
But I'll say this about your first question "why does it have to be before A3 and A4?"
Very simply because that's what is available to Fox right now. If not this then the franchise might've stayed as is for an indefinite amount of time. It really looked like Fox just didn't know what to do with it. With Weaver not interested in continuing Ripley 8's story or anything earthbound, hopes for them closing that storyline were gone. And continuing the story with new characters after that movie without closing it properly was probably troublesome for them too.
So their solution was Prometheus. And they sat on Alien until the concept art Blomkamp made came to light. With Weaver interested in reprising her old role. It was clear they weren't going to ger a Ripley 8 conclusion, and they probably won't want to introduce potential torch carriers without a final Ripley send off. So if it means negating one conclusion and creating a new one with the possibility of revitalizing the franchise with bew characters even after Weaver leaves, the studio will take it.
So again, it's not about fan pandering. It's about $$$. I'm just hoping that they accepted Blomkamp's pitch because it was damn good and not out of desperation. I feel good about it though.
Im sorry but it is so easy to continue the franchise from where it left off and still ignore the stranger parts of 4 while returning to the vibe of Aliens. Again. It's lazy. I am not sold that it is at all necessary nor do I believe BLOMKAMP of all people couldnt do it better than possibly anyone. That's the worst part of this is that I think he could have accomplished it better than anyone else and still can.
Weaver never said she didn't like Ripley 8. She said it was her entire reason for returning. She also had a large hand in killing off Hicks and Newt and never said she didn't want to return to Ripley 8. She just didn't want the aliens to get to earth and didn't want to manufacture the fifth sequel.
You say this is what is available to them as if they were actively throwing money at writers to come up with something. Not at all. They were busy with AVP and then turned to Prometheus to fix the mess they made. It worked and now this perfect director showed interest but 'Only if the studio doesn't interfere' Well, I'm hoping the Producers DO interfere with this one very big mess of a decision.
You then say its about $$$ - but that's baloney. You know perfectly well that an Alien 5 by Blomkamp with Weaver after the hype Prometheus re-instated for the series will make a fortune good or bad.
Again, I just don't see why it's necessary at all.
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 08:29:35 PM
If we ain't getting an AVP3 then we most certainly aren't getting an Alien 5. :P
Quote from: xeno-kaname on Feb 26, 2015, 08:28:52 PMQuote from: CainsSon on Feb 26, 2015, 07:26:07 PMQuote from: xeno-kaname on Feb 26, 2015, 07:08:24 PMQuote from: CainsSon on Feb 26, 2015, 05:32:03 PMQuote from: Omegazilla on Feb 26, 2015, 05:16:16 PM
Fact is, the general audience gives about zero shits about this whole ordeal. Most don't even remember there were films after Aliens; and those that do do not remember them fondly. This decision is only pis
sing off some long time fans -- a small portion of the overall target audience.
Im not sure I agree with this,.. First, I will say again, I don't understand why it is necessary. And secondly, if the whole idea is to attract new fans and please the old, this will do neither.
Imagine what this will do to further boxed sets and interviews and to new fans who start watching the series from the beginning. It will be like, ok it ends w/ Alien 3 but then they made this A:R spin off and there's a cliffhanger that was never wrapped up, so then 20 years later they came back and retconned the third film so they could restart where they liked things? Why was that necessary?
I will say this again, every attempt to make the series more like what it was before, specifically in Aliens has been a step in the wrong direction and has arguably been what ruined everything after Alien 3. Take all the Aliens-ish stuff out of A:R and you have left all of the redeeming things in that script.
So here are the real questions I need to hear answered to take this in stride:
1. Why does it have to take place after Aliens and ignore 3 and 4?
2. Why can't it remain the spiritual successor to Aliens and still be a sequel to A:R (Just because people don't like it, is a lazy reason). It doesn't change that continuing on, it can still be a sequel.
3. Why can't it 'categorically' not feature what Ripley 8 was while still remaining a sequel to A:R? Why can't they just ignore A:R MOSTLY, but explain something away, in a way that doesn't detract from two other entires in the series?
I just have not heard a good reason and so I think we will end up with a bad film.
This is the same mistake all those PLATINUM DUNES remakes make. Its not that they are remakes, its that they attempt to reestablish the series, for instance FRIDAY THE 13th, to a place that it reached in stride after several sequels. And to do so it hamfists all this extra stuff to bring the film to where it once was, instead of letting its growth happen and it just feels forced.
There's been so many good answers to the questions you're posing that it would be extremely repetitive to address each single one.
But I'll say this about your first question "why does it have to be before A3 and A4?"
Very simply because that's what is available to Fox right now. If not this then the franchise might've stayed as is for an indefinite amount of time. It really looked like Fox just didn't know what to do with it. With Weaver not interested in continuing Ripley 8's story or anything earthbound, hopes for them closing that storyline were gone. And continuing the story with new characters after that movie without closing it properly was probably troublesome for them too.
So their solution was Prometheus. And they sat on Alien until the concept art Blomkamp made came to light. With Weaver interested in reprising her old role. It was clear they weren't going to ger a Ripley 8 conclusion, and they probably won't want to introduce potential torch carriers without a final Ripley send off. So if it means negating one conclusion and creating a new one with the possibility of revitalizing the franchise with bew characters even after Weaver leaves, the studio will take it.
So again, it's not about fan pandering. It's about $$$. I'm just hoping that they accepted Blomkamp's pitch because it was damn good and not out of desperation. I feel good about it though.
Im sorry but it is so easy to continue the franchise from where it left off and still ignore the stranger parts of 4 while returning to the vibe of Aliens. Again. It's lazy. I am not sold that it is at all necessary nor do I believe BLOMKAMP of all people couldnt do it better than possibly anyone. That's the worst part of this is that I think he could have accomplished it better than anyone else and still can.
Weaver never said she didn't like Ripley 8. She said it was her entire reason for returning. She also had a large hand in killing off Hicks and Newt and never said she didn't want to return to Ripley 8. She just didn't want the aliens to get to earth and didn't want to manufacture the fifth sequel.
You say this is what is available to them as if they were actively throwing money at writers to come up with something. Not at all. They were busy with AVP and then turned to Prometheus to fix the mess they made. It worked and now this perfect director showed interest but 'Only if the studio doesn't interfere' Well, I'm hoping the Producers DO interfere with this one very big mess of a decision.
You then say its about $$$ - but that's baloney. You know perfectly well that an Alien 5 by Blomkamp with Weaver after the hype Prometheus re-instated for the series will make a fortune good or bad.
Again, I just don't see why it's necessary at all.
It's not lazy at all. It's that Blomkamp didn't want some new characters to lead a new movie. He wanted these classic heros back. It's his vision. The manner in which he actually retcons the story, there it might be lazy. But we don't know how he will do it.
I didn't say she didn't like Ripley 8, but she did say she lost interest. And pretty much regained interest in the original Ripley.
And no I definitely do not mean Fox was actively seeking directors or scripts for a new movie. But it wasn't out of the picture either. They had no promising leads to follow so they just didn't do anything with it. I'm sure there was some pitches similar to what many suggested. New characters and separate stories and so on. But you know how studios are. They see it as a risk. A very big one considering the last two entries in this franchise were very controversial. Ripley returning was probably a big sell for them.
And I meant it's about $$$ for FOX. For Blomkamp this is a labor of love. He just happens to be one of the fans that never wanted Hicks and Newt to die. It was just a story for him and he probably thought Fox would never allow such a contradiction to be greenlit so he let it loose on the internet. The story must have been pretty good seeing as how fast Fox consented to it. Specially when Blomkamp stated he wouldn't do it unless it was on his terms.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 26, 2015, 08:22:52 PMQuote from: Adam802 on Feb 26, 2015, 08:11:21 PM
There's nothing wrong with a new Alien movie that happens to take a different direction after ALIENS that shows what else could've happened. A3/A:R will still exist. Im loving the news coming out so far, I think it has a lot of potential and I think MOST people want this.
It has a lot of potential to cheapen and water down the franchise till there is nothing left (we're already pretty close to that point as it is anyways...)
Once you start making retcons and reboots you open up the gates for another round of retcons and reboots and remakes and whatnot.
Quote from: Rex on Feb 26, 2015, 08:24:06 PM
Blomkamp ignoring 3 and Resurrection at this point is pathetic...utterly pathetic...a TRUE creative write could have just picked up from Resurrection and made an amazing film that would rival Alien and Aliens.
Quote from: Adam802 on Feb 26, 2015, 08:41:06 PM
Again, its really just an alternative "canon/timeline". It doesnt necessarily mean A3 and A:R dont exist.
Quote from: Hellspawn28 on Feb 26, 2015, 08:45:27 PM
I don't get why people are upset about A3 and A:R being wiped out completely? It's not they are going to be gone forever since they are still on DVD and Blu-Ray. A decade ago or more, everyone would be happy for this news. Now in 2015, people are upset about the idea of A3 and A:R being ignored for good ??? ?
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 26, 2015, 08:46:24 PMQuote from: Adam802 on Feb 26, 2015, 08:41:06 PM
Again, its really just an alternative "canon/timeline". It doesnt necessarily mean A3 and A:R dont exist.
But not an official alternative canon/timeline. And I think that's what Fox should console us fans with.. An official statement that there is an alternative canon/timeline. It's something I have been advocating for since 2013.
Quote from: Adam802 on Feb 26, 2015, 08:41:06 PMQuote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 26, 2015, 08:22:52 PMQuote from: Adam802 on Feb 26, 2015, 08:11:21 PM
There's nothing wrong with a new Alien movie that happens to take a different direction after ALIENS that shows what else could've happened. A3/A:R will still exist. Im loving the news coming out so far, I think it has a lot of potential and I think MOST people want this.
It has a lot of potential to cheapen and water down the franchise till there is nothing left (we're already pretty close to that point as it is anyways...)
Once you start making retcons and reboots you open up the gates for another round of retcons and reboots and remakes and whatnot.
I feel that Alien 3 and Resurrection cheapened and watered down the franchise, and started the downfall that eventually led to the place the franchise is currently in. Again, its really just an alternative "canon/timeline". It doesnt necessarily mean A3 and A:R dont exist.
Quote from: Adam802 on Feb 26, 2015, 08:41:06 PMThere is nowhere to go after Resurrection.
Quote from: Adam802 on Feb 26, 2015, 08:48:42 PMQuote from: Hellspawn28 on Feb 26, 2015, 08:45:27 PM
I don't get why people are upset about A3 and A:R being wiped out completely? It's not they are going to be gone forever since they are still on DVD and Blu-Ray. A decade ago or more, everyone would be happy for this news. Now in 2015, people are upset about the idea of A3 and A:R being ignored for good ??? ?
Back in 1997, they couldn't have retconned A3/AR bc they were still fresh. But now its been long enough that its doable. The alien franchise was DEAD after AR bc there was literally nowhere for it to go after that. It buried itself and wrote itself into a corner after AR. Not enough time has passed that its more acceptable to "retcon" A3 and AR and reinvigorate the franchise with a new/better direction.
Quote from: Adam802 on Feb 26, 2015, 08:48:42 PM
Well as some have said, you dont really need FOX's approval to have what you consider YOUR personal canon/timeline. Alien fans have been doing that since 1986.
Quote from: Horrific Hominid on Feb 26, 2015, 08:42:35 PM
The term "genetic sibling" leads me to believe that 3 and Resurrection won't be wiped out entirely. If this film was going to be a direct sequel to Aliens that completely ignored later continuity, they probably would have said it outright.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 26, 2015, 08:49:57 PMQuote from: Adam802 on Feb 26, 2015, 08:41:06 PMQuote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 26, 2015, 08:22:52 PMQuote from: Adam802 on Feb 26, 2015, 08:11:21 PM
There's nothing wrong with a new Alien movie that happens to take a different direction after ALIENS that shows what else could've happened. A3/A:R will still exist. Im loving the news coming out so far, I think it has a lot of potential and I think MOST people want this.
It has a lot of potential to cheapen and water down the franchise till there is nothing left (we're already pretty close to that point as it is anyways...)
Once you start making retcons and reboots you open up the gates for another round of retcons and reboots and remakes and whatnot.
I feel that Alien 3 and Resurrection cheapened and watered down the franchise, and started the downfall that eventually led to the place the franchise is currently in. Again, its really just an alternative "canon/timeline". It doesnt necessarily mean A3 and A:R dont exist.
How? By trying to push the envelope and make something new and creative instead of repeating as naseum what has already been done in ALIENS and in the comics/games/novels a billion times, one cheesier than the other?
I guess ALIENS porn is what the so called "real alien fans" want. Basic repetition, in-and-out, same stuff same time next week every week!
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 26, 2015, 08:50:28 PMQuote from: Adam802 on Feb 26, 2015, 08:41:06 PMThere is nowhere to go after Resurrection.
Again with people talking this rubbish! There's an entire universe of possibilities post-Resurrection!
Quote from: Horrific Hominid on Feb 26, 2015, 08:50:54 PMQuote from: Adam802 on Feb 26, 2015, 08:48:42 PMQuote from: Hellspawn28 on Feb 26, 2015, 08:45:27 PM
I don't get why people are upset about A3 and A:R being wiped out completely? It's not they are going to be gone forever since they are still on DVD and Blu-Ray. A decade ago or more, everyone would be happy for this news. Now in 2015, people are upset about the idea of A3 and A:R being ignored for good ??? ?
Back in 1997, they couldn't have retconned A3/AR bc they were still fresh. But now its been long enough that its doable. The alien franchise was DEAD after AR bc there was literally nowhere for it to go after that. It buried itself and wrote itself into a corner after AR. Not enough time has passed that its more acceptable to "retcon" A3 and AR and reinvigorate the franchise with a new/better direction.
How did it bury itself? The characters and universe are still there to be used. If anything, it is the Alien film that most left itself open to a sequel.
QuoteTime travel solves everything. Prometheus' Engineers are humans from the far future. They create time travel and go back to primordial Earth to seed our planet with a more benevolent form of human.
Prometheus' Engineer is violent upon awakening because he/she realizes the experiment didn't work — humans are just as ridiculous and combative as ever.
Meanwhile, the Engineer's ship on LV-426 was equipped with a time travel device and, when Ripley and co destroy Hadley's Hope at the end of Aliens, it is triggered (perhaps as a self-preservation device) and two timelines are created — one where Alien 3 and 4 occurred and a (better) one where Blomkamp's movie takes places.
Bonus: time travel can't be utilized to resolve plot points in future movies because it's an unaccessible Engineer technology (or is it...?)
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 26, 2015, 08:39:36 PMI made a distinction between Fox and Blomkamp. How you choose to interpret it is up to you.Quote from: xeno-kaname on Feb 26, 2015, 08:28:52 PMQuote from: CainsSon on Feb 26, 2015, 07:26:07 PMQuote from: xeno-kaname on Feb 26, 2015, 07:08:24 PMQuote from: CainsSon on Feb 26, 2015, 05:32:03 PMQuote from: Omegazilla on Feb 26, 2015, 05:16:16 PM
Fact is, the general audience gives about zero shits about this whole ordeal. Most don't even remember there were films after Aliens; and those that do do not remember them fondly. This decision is only pis
sing off some long time fans -- a small portion of the overall target audience.
Im not sure I agree with this,.. First, I will say again, I don't understand why it is necessary. And secondly, if the whole idea is to attract new fans and please the old, this will do neither.
Imagine what this will do to further boxed sets and interviews and to new fans who start watching the series from the beginning. It will be like, ok it ends w/ Alien 3 but then they made this A:R spin off and there's a cliffhanger that was never wrapped up, so then 20 years later they came back and retconned the third film so they could restart where they liked things? Why was that necessary?
I will say this again, every attempt to make the series more like what it was before, specifically in Aliens has been a step in the wrong direction and has arguably been what ruined everything after Alien 3. Take all the Aliens-ish stuff out of A:R and you have left all of the redeeming things in that script.
So here are the real questions I need to hear answered to take this in stride:
1. Why does it have to take place after Aliens and ignore 3 and 4?
2. Why can't it remain the spiritual successor to Aliens and still be a sequel to A:R (Just because people don't like it, is a lazy reason). It doesn't change that continuing on, it can still be a sequel.
3. Why can't it 'categorically' not feature what Ripley 8 was while still remaining a sequel to A:R? Why can't they just ignore A:R MOSTLY, but explain something away, in a way that doesn't detract from two other entires in the series?
I just have not heard a good reason and so I think we will end up with a bad film.
This is the same mistake all those PLATINUM DUNES remakes make. Its not that they are remakes, its that they attempt to reestablish the series, for instance FRIDAY THE 13th, to a place that it reached in stride after several sequels. And to do so it hamfists all this extra stuff to bring the film to where it once was, instead of letting its growth happen and it just feels forced.
There's been so many good answers to the questions you're posing that it would be extremely repetitive to address each single one.
But I'll say this about your first question "why does it have to be before A3 and A4?"
Very simply because that's what is available to Fox right now. If not this then the franchise might've stayed as is for an indefinite amount of time. It really looked like Fox just didn't know what to do with it. With Weaver not interested in continuing Ripley 8's story or anything earthbound, hopes for them closing that storyline were gone. And continuing the story with new characters after that movie without closing it properly was probably troublesome for them too.
So their solution was Prometheus. And they sat on Alien until the concept art Blomkamp made came to light. With Weaver interested in reprising her old role. It was clear they weren't going to ger a Ripley 8 conclusion, and they probably won't want to introduce potential torch carriers without a final Ripley send off. So if it means negating one conclusion and creating a new one with the possibility of revitalizing the franchise with bew characters even after Weaver leaves, the studio will take it.
So again, it's not about fan pandering. It's about $$$. I'm just hoping that they accepted Blomkamp's pitch because it was damn good and not out of desperation. I feel good about it though.
Im sorry but it is so easy to continue the franchise from where it left off and still ignore the stranger parts of 4 while returning to the vibe of Aliens. Again. It's lazy. I am not sold that it is at all necessary nor do I believe BLOMKAMP of all people couldnt do it better than possibly anyone. That's the worst part of this is that I think he could have accomplished it better than anyone else and still can.
Weaver never said she didn't like Ripley 8. She said it was her entire reason for returning. She also had a large hand in killing off Hicks and Newt and never said she didn't want to return to Ripley 8. She just didn't want the aliens to get to earth and didn't want to manufacture the fifth sequel.
You say this is what is available to them as if they were actively throwing money at writers to come up with something. Not at all. They were busy with AVP and then turned to Prometheus to fix the mess they made. It worked and now this perfect director showed interest but 'Only if the studio doesn't interfere' Well, I'm hoping the Producers DO interfere with this one very big mess of a decision.
You then say its about $$$ - but that's baloney. You know perfectly well that an Alien 5 by Blomkamp with Weaver after the hype Prometheus re-instated for the series will make a fortune good or bad.
Again, I just don't see why it's necessary at all.
It's not lazy at all. It's that Blomkamp didn't want some new characters to lead a new movie. He wanted these classic heros back. It's his vision. The manner in which he actually retcons the story, there it might be lazy. But we don't know how he will do it.
I didn't say she didn't like Ripley 8, but she did say she lost interest. And pretty much regained interest in the original Ripley.
And no I definitely do not mean Fox was actively seeking directors or scripts for a new movie. But it wasn't out of the picture either. They had no promising leads to follow so they just didn't do anything with it. I'm sure there was some pitches similar to what many suggested. New characters and separate stories and so on. But you know how studios are. They see it as a risk. A very big one considering the last two entries in this franchise were very controversial. Ripley returning was probably a big sell for them.
And I meant it's about $$$ for FOX. For Blomkamp this is a labor of love. He just happens to be one of the fans that never wanted Hicks and Newt to die. It was just a story for him and he probably thought Fox would never allow such a contradiction to be greenlit so he let it loose on the internet. The story must have been pretty good seeing as how fast Fox consented to it. Specially when Blomkamp stated he wouldn't do it unless it was on his terms.
So what you're saying is that Blomkamp isn't lazy and cheap but that he is lazy and cheap, and that FOX aren't only thinking about the money but that they only think about the money?
Quote from: Adam802 on Feb 26, 2015, 08:53:26 PMQuote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 26, 2015, 08:49:57 PMQuote from: Adam802 on Feb 26, 2015, 08:41:06 PMQuote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 26, 2015, 08:22:52 PMQuote from: Adam802 on Feb 26, 2015, 08:11:21 PM
There's nothing wrong with a new Alien movie that happens to take a different direction after ALIENS that shows what else could've happened. A3/A:R will still exist. Im loving the news coming out so far, I think it has a lot of potential and I think MOST people want this.
It has a lot of potential to cheapen and water down the franchise till there is nothing left (we're already pretty close to that point as it is anyways...)
Once you start making retcons and reboots you open up the gates for another round of retcons and reboots and remakes and whatnot.
I feel that Alien 3 and Resurrection cheapened and watered down the franchise, and started the downfall that eventually led to the place the franchise is currently in. Again, its really just an alternative "canon/timeline". It doesnt necessarily mean A3 and A:R dont exist.
How? By trying to push the envelope and make something new and creative instead of repeating as naseum what has already been done in ALIENS and in the comics/games/novels a billion times, one cheesier than the other?
I guess ALIENS porn is what the so called "real alien fans" want. Basic repetition, in-and-out, same stuff same time next week every week!
It can go in a different direction after ALIENS that doesnt necessarily mean its going to have to be a carbon copy of ALIENS. Just because it might feature more fan fovorite characters, doesnt mean its going to be more of the same ALIENS as before.
The thing with ALIEN and ALIENS, was that all the characters kind of knew and cared for ripley and vice versa. The crew of the Nostromo and the squad of Marines. The prisoners on Fury 161 didnt give a shit about Ripley and thus werent really good supporting characters. Same with the betty crew from A:R.
Quote from: Crazy Shrimp on Feb 26, 2015, 08:55:13 PM
:laugh: From IO9:QuoteTime travel solves everything. Prometheus' Engineers are humans from the far future. They create time travel and go back to primordial Earth to seed our planet with a more benevolent form of human.
Prometheus' Engineer is violent upon awakening because he/she realizes the experiment didn't work — humans are just as ridiculous and combative as ever.
Meanwhile, the Engineer's ship on LV-426 was equipped with a time travel device and, when Ripley and co destroy the planet at the end of Aliens, it is triggered (perhaps as a self-preservation device) and two timelines are created — one where Alien 3 and 4 occurred and a (better) one where Blomkamp's movie takes places.
Bonus: time travel can't be utilized to resolve plot points in future movies because it's an unaccessible Engineer technology (or is it...?)
http://io9.com/neill-blomkamp-hints-the-new-alien-movie-will-wipe-out-1688132671 (http://io9.com/neill-blomkamp-hints-the-new-alien-movie-will-wipe-out-1688132671)
Quote from: Crazy Shrimp on Feb 26, 2015, 08:55:13 PM
:laugh: From IO9:QuoteTime travel solves everything. Prometheus' Engineers are humans from the far future. They create time travel and go back to primordial Earth to seed our planet with a more benevolent form of human.
Prometheus' Engineer is violent upon awakening because he/she realizes the experiment didn't work — humans are just as ridiculous and combative as ever.
Meanwhile, the Engineer's ship on LV-426 was equipped with a time travel device and, when Ripley and co destroy the planet at the end of Aliens, it is triggered (perhaps as a self-preservation device) and two timelines are created — one where Alien 3 and 4 occurred and a (crappier) one where Blomkamp's movie takes places.
Bonus: time travel can't be utilized to resolve plot points in future movies because it's an unaccessible Engineer technology (or is it...?)
http://io9.com/neill-blomkamp-hints-the-new-alien-movie-will-wipe-out-1688132671 (http://io9.com/neill-blomkamp-hints-the-new-alien-movie-will-wipe-out-1688132671)
Quote from: Magegg on Feb 26, 2015, 09:00:19 PM
It looks like wishful thinking. Kind of a sign that people do actually want a retcon...
I don't see websites rising with torches at the idea, or demanding the studio to keep Alien 3 and 4 in-continuity...
Studios, take note.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 26, 2015, 09:00:00 PMQuote from: Crazy Shrimp on Feb 26, 2015, 08:55:13 PM
:laugh: From IO9:QuoteTime travel solves everything. Prometheus' Engineers are humans from the far future. They create time travel and go back to primordial Earth to seed our planet with a more benevolent form of human.
Prometheus' Engineer is violent upon awakening because he/she realizes the experiment didn't work — humans are just as ridiculous and combative as ever.
Meanwhile, the Engineer's ship on LV-426 was equipped with a time travel device and, when Ripley and co destroy Hadley's Hope at the end of Aliens, it is triggered (perhaps as a self-preservation device) and two timelines are created — one where Alien 3 and 4 occurred and a (crappier) one where Blomkamp's movie takes places.
Bonus: time travel can't be utilized to resolve plot points in future movies because it's an unaccessible Engineer technology (or is it...?)
http://io9.com/neill-blomkamp-hints-the-new-alien-movie-will-wipe-out-1688132671 (http://io9.com/neill-blomkamp-hints-the-new-alien-movie-will-wipe-out-1688132671)
Getting lamer and lamer...
PS: Fixed it btw! ;)
Quote from: Magegg on Feb 26, 2015, 09:12:35 PMI don't see reason to respect Alien 3 since the whole premise was made up on the run becuase of Biehn signing off the movie and the rushed and messy development of the movie.
Quote from: GQSioux on Feb 26, 2015, 09:28:18 PM
"I'm not trying to undo Alien 3 or Alien Resurrection..."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9ihfeibtCQ&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9ihfeibtCQ&feature=youtu.be)
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 26, 2015, 09:34:27 PMNah, he was originally approached with the idea of filming Alien 3 and 4, the idea was to have Hicks back, but then he turned down. And the whole script writing "process" was another f**king mess. I'm pretty sure they never had a single good story to work with.Quote from: Magegg on Feb 26, 2015, 09:12:35 PMI don't see reason to respect Alien 3 since the whole premise was made up on the run becuase of Biehn signing off the movie and the rushed and messy development of the movie.
Again, not actually true. Biehn's death in the third film had nothing to do with him turning the film down. Other than Gibson's script, where he was the main character, he was dead in every version of the film proposed.
Quote from: Magegg on Feb 26, 2015, 09:37:38 PMNah, he was originally approached with the idea of filming Alien 3 and 4, the idea was to have Hicks back, but then he turned down.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 26, 2015, 09:37:33 PMQuote from: Adam802 on Feb 26, 2015, 09:33:50 PM
very interesting, I like that Sigourney pretty much says that she didnt like the way the movies went by the end. And I think Blomkamp is pretty much saying that he doesnt want to officially retcon A3/AR, just ignore them and make the movie he want for HIS vision, which I fully support.
So this is like PREDATORS again, where it ignored Predator to AvP-R and was more or less a direct sequel to the original Predator.
More and more, this is sounding like what Godzilla 1985 did... Serve as a sequel to the original 1954 movie, and ignore the rest. Meaning we COULD be looking at different timelines. Guys... Are we looking at different timelines now?
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 26, 2015, 09:39:56 PMThe scripts were still crappy, they didn't have no Blomkamp to write a decent follow up.Quote from: Magegg on Feb 26, 2015, 09:37:38 PMNah, he was originally approached with the idea of filming Alien 3 and 4, the idea was to have Hicks back, but then he turned down.
Wrong. Gibson's script was rejected by the studio before Biehn got anywhere near it. The only actor they spoke to was Weaver, who didn't really wanna do it which is why Gibson wrote her out. Biehn has said numerous times he wanted to be a part of a third Alien film.
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 09:43:22 PM
I've always been under the impression that this was a different timeline, what was everyone else thinking?
Quote from: Magegg on Feb 26, 2015, 09:45:03 PMThe scripts were still crappy, they didn't have no Blomkamp to write a decent follow up.
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 09:48:52 PM
Alien 3 can have the AVP films and Alien (NB) will have the Prometheus films, I suppose.
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 09:52:41 PM
Yeah, as I said, splitting the Alien universe into two can really help many of the continuity issues that's been plaguing the community. :)
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 09:52:41 PMYeah, as I said, splitting the Alien universe into two can really help many of the continuity issues that's been plaguing the AVP community. :)
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 26, 2015, 09:56:35 PM
Not to mention it's utterly unnecessary. It's not like you can't just add to what we have. The whole multiverse thing is just pointlessly convoluted and kinda cheap.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 26, 2015, 09:53:54 PMQuote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 09:52:41 PM
Yeah, as I said, splitting the Alien universe into two can really help many of the continuity issues that's been plaguing the community. :)
What? I'm the guy that came up with the multiverse/alternate timeline theory back in the multiverse thread, remember?
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 26, 2015, 09:56:35 PMQuote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 09:52:41 PMYeah, as I said, splitting the Alien universe into two can really help many of the continuity issues that's been plaguing the AVP community. :)
No. It just makes things needlessly confusing.
Not to mention it's utterly unnecessary. It's not like you can't just add to what we have. The whole multiverse thing is just pointlessly convoluted and kinda cheap.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 26, 2015, 09:56:35 PMThat would be not confusing. Just forget the old movies and embrace the new ones.Quote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 09:52:41 PMYeah, as I said, splitting the Alien universe into two can really help many of the continuity issues that's been plaguing the AVP community. :)
No. It just makes things needlessly confusing.
Not to mention it's utterly unnecessary. It's not like you can't just add to what we have. The whole multiverse thing is just pointlessly convoluted and kinda cheap.
Quote from: Rankles75 on Feb 26, 2015, 10:04:17 PM
As long as I get (real) Ripley, Hicks and Newt, I don't give a shit... :)
Quote from: Adam802 on Feb 26, 2015, 10:06:07 PM
Here are the options:
Option 1:
Take place after the 4 alien movies. Sequel to Resurrection. Bad idea in my opinion as I believe that Ripley 8 is a bad character and the story is in a bad spot at that moment.
Option 2:
Retcon Alien 3 and A:R out of existence. They never happened. Kinda harsh imo as A3 at least has its moments and has been considered canon for the last 22 years.
Option 3:
Take place after Alien 3 with new characters. Ripley is gone and dead. Could potentially work imo, however Sigourney is going to most certainly be involved so this is unlikely, especially considering Sigourney and Blomkamp's recent comments in interviews.
Option 4:
Alternate timeline/canon. Takes place after AL()ENS in place of Alien 3/A:R. A3/A:R arent retconned "out of existance", they are just ignored for the sake of this new story's different take on the direction of the franchise. imo, this is the best option that has the greatest potential and will anger the least amount of fans.
What do you guys think?...
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 10:09:15 PMOption 6:
Ripley and Hicks are still dead, but their templates are copied into synthetics who continue to carry on their work.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 26, 2015, 10:01:28 PM
Alternate timeline, alternate timeline, alternate timeline, alternate timeline.. DO IT! DO IT! DO IT! DO IT!
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 26, 2015, 10:11:02 PMQuote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 10:09:15 PMOption 6:
Ripley and Hicks are still dead, but their templates are copied into synthetics who continue to carry on their work.
But why would anyone do that!
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 26, 2015, 10:11:02 PMQuote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 10:09:15 PMOption 6:
Ripley and Hicks are still dead, but their templates are copied into synthetics who continue to carry on their work.
But why would anyone do that!
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 10:09:15 PMQuote from: Adam802 on Feb 26, 2015, 10:06:07 PM
Here are the options:
Option 1:
Take place after the 4 alien movies. Sequel to Resurrection. Bad idea in my opinion as I believe that Ripley 8 is a bad character and the story is in a bad spot at that moment.
Option 2:
Retcon Alien 3 and A:R out of existence. They never happened. Kinda harsh imo as A3 at least has its moments and has been considered canon for the last 22 years.
Option 3:
Take place after Alien 3 with new characters. Ripley is gone and dead. Could potentially work imo, however Sigourney is going to most certainly be involved so this is unlikely, especially considering Sigourney and Blomkamp's recent comments in interviews.
Option 4:
Alternate timeline/canon. Takes place after AL()ENS in place of Alien 3/A:R. A3/A:R arent retconned "out of existance", they are just ignored for the sake of this new story's different take on the direction of the franchise. imo, this is the best option that has the greatest potential and will anger the least amount of fans.
What do you guys think?...
You forgot:
Option 5:
Secret interquel between Aliens and Alien 3.
Option 6:
Ripley and Hicks are still dead, but their templates are copied into synthetics who continue to carry on their work.
Quote from: Guts on Feb 26, 2015, 10:14:24 PMIf hicks is in this and Ripley, then its an automatic win in my book. It's neat they are ignoring Resurrection. Kinda sad they are ignoring Alien 3, but then again Alien 3 is what got us into this mess.
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 10:09:15 PMQuote from: Adam802 on Feb 26, 2015, 10:06:07 PM
Here are the options:
Option 1:
Take place after the 4 alien movies. Sequel to Resurrection. Bad idea in my opinion as I believe that Ripley 8 is a bad character and the story is in a bad spot at that moment.
Option 2:
Retcon Alien 3 and A:R out of existence. They never happened. Kinda harsh imo as A3 at least has its moments and has been considered canon for the last 22 years.
Option 3:
Take place after Alien 3 with new characters. Ripley is gone and dead. Could potentially work imo, however Sigourney is going to most certainly be involved so this is unlikely, especially considering Sigourney and Blomkamp's recent comments in interviews.
Option 4:
Alternate timeline/canon. Takes place after AL()ENS in place of Alien 3/A:R. A3/A:R arent retconned "out of existance", they are just ignored for the sake of this new story's different take on the direction of the franchise. imo, this is the best option that has the greatest potential and will anger the least amount of fans.
What do you guys think?...
You forgot:
Option 5:
Secret interquel between Aliens and Alien 3.
Quote from: Adam802 on Feb 26, 2015, 10:16:04 PMQuote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 10:09:15 PMQuote from: Adam802 on Feb 26, 2015, 10:06:07 PM
Here are the options:
Option 1:
Take place after the 4 alien movies. Sequel to Resurrection. Bad idea in my opinion as I believe that Ripley 8 is a bad character and the story is in a bad spot at that moment.
Option 2:
Retcon Alien 3 and A:R out of existence. They never happened. Kinda harsh imo as A3 at least has its moments and has been considered canon for the last 22 years.
Option 3:
Take place after Alien 3 with new characters. Ripley is gone and dead. Could potentially work imo, however Sigourney is going to most certainly be involved so this is unlikely, especially considering Sigourney and Blomkamp's recent comments in interviews.
Option 4:
Alternate timeline/canon. Takes place after AL()ENS in place of Alien 3/A:R. A3/A:R arent retconned "out of existance", they are just ignored for the sake of this new story's different take on the direction of the franchise. imo, this is the best option that has the greatest potential and will anger the least amount of fans.
What do you guys think?...
You forgot:
Option 5:
Secret interquel between Aliens and Alien 3.
Option 6:
Ripley and Hicks are still dead, but their templates are copied into synthetics who continue to carry on their work.
Interquel could maybe work, however ALIENS ends with everyone in hypersleep onboard the Sulaco, and A3 begins with them all being ejected and killed (except Ripley, who obviously survives). So theres not really a lot of time for anything to happen in between the 2 movies.
And Option 6 is.....just bad. like NO.
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 10:17:35 PMWell, we did have Alien: Out of the Shadows which bridges the gap between the first 2 movies, and A:CM did something similar between the second and third.
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 10:16:00 PM
Why would their be a Predalien who can regurgitate eggs into pregnant women? Because it sounds cool? :D
Quote from: Alien³ on Feb 26, 2015, 10:09:08 PMQuote from: Rankles75 on Feb 26, 2015, 10:04:17 PM
As long as I get (real) Ripley, Hicks and Newt, I don't give a shit... :)
Here you go...
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn-static.denofgeek.com%2Fsites%2Fdenofgeek%2Ffiles%2F2%2F53%2F%2Falien-3-main.jpg&hash=960557c515e6207fb8ebc6dce4f8056226eb5499)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette4.wikia.nocookie.net%2Favp%2Fimages%2F3%2F3d%2FTurk%26%23039%3Bs_corpse.jpg&hash=b54883ebb76d1c5d0b35014861330af75e795999)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-fLM_mlDdI-4%2FT2NVWVqrP4I%2FAAAAAAAAAag%2F90gBh_e6LaE%2Fs1600%2Ffreecomhdd8.png&hash=9fe95f229fa30e1a107c8fe5fb01023b985ebc93)
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 26, 2015, 10:18:28 PMQuote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 10:17:35 PMWell, we did have Alien: Out of the Shadows which bridges the gap between the first 2 movies, and A:CM did something similar between the second and third.
The execution of both of which was laughable.
Quote from: Crazy Shrimp on Feb 26, 2015, 10:17:33 PMQuote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 10:09:15 PMQuote from: Adam802 on Feb 26, 2015, 10:06:07 PM
Here are the options:
Option 1:
Take place after the 4 alien movies. Sequel to Resurrection. Bad idea in my opinion as I believe that Ripley 8 is a bad character and the story is in a bad spot at that moment.
Option 2:
Retcon Alien 3 and A:R out of existence. They never happened. Kinda harsh imo as A3 at least has its moments and has been considered canon for the last 22 years.
Option 3:
Take place after Alien 3 with new characters. Ripley is gone and dead. Could potentially work imo, however Sigourney is going to most certainly be involved so this is unlikely, especially considering Sigourney and Blomkamp's recent comments in interviews.
Option 4:
Alternate timeline/canon. Takes place after AL()ENS in place of Alien 3/A:R. A3/A:R arent retconned "out of existance", they are just ignored for the sake of this new story's different take on the direction of the franchise. imo, this is the best option that has the greatest potential and will anger the least amount of fans.
What do you guys think?...
You forgot:
Option 5:
Secret interquel between Aliens and Alien 3.
Then Ripley had amnesia or his memory was erased and that's why she does not remember anything in Alien 3? ( I mean anything about the interquel adventure)
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 26, 2015, 10:26:42 PMWho cares. A "Timeline" becomes irrelevant when more material set on it is no longer being produced. Like Star Trek or Star Wars Legends. Just focus on the new movies and let Alien 3 and Rez back there, like museum pieces.
I'm still hoping that this is all an alternate timeline thing going on.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Feb 26, 2015, 10:22:07 PM
I can feel Alien3's anger.
Good.... Goooood....
Quote from: szkoki on Feb 25, 2015, 10:36:25 PM
well as an actor she is really good. but u know what? she did that shitty AR too, so i believe for her is no matter what as long as its Alien related, she loves this franchise so much
Quote from: Intrepid-Traveler on Feb 26, 2015, 09:07:19 AM
Haven't seen Elysium, but I from the people I've talked to they liked it enough.
Quote from: Nazrel on Feb 26, 2015, 07:20:08 PM
Any previous EU that could have been cannon was washed away with the newet 3 novels werent they?
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 07:41:39 PM
Prometheus arguably did the same with the AVP films and no one complained.
Quote from: stroggificated on Feb 26, 2015, 10:45:56 PM
Alien-->Aliens-->Alien 3 = Bad ending
Quote from: Guts on Feb 26, 2015, 10:14:24 PMThis sums up my thoughts perfectly.
If hicks is in this and Ripley, then its an automatic win in my book. It's neat they are ignoring Resurrection. Kinda sad they are ignoring Alien 3, but then again Alien 3 is what got us into this mess.
Quote from: Alien³ on Feb 26, 2015, 10:48:23 PMQuote from: stroggificated on Feb 26, 2015, 10:45:56 PM
Alien-->Aliens-->Alien 3 = Bad ending
The bad ending being she stops the company and outrightly exterminates the Alien?
Quote from: Alien³ on Feb 26, 2015, 10:48:23 PMYeah that one :P Because as we all know the Alien species is alive and well. And also Walmart takes Wey-Yu's place so it's all for naught.Quote from: stroggificated on Feb 26, 2015, 10:45:56 PM
Alien-->Aliens-->Alien 3 = Bad ending
The bad ending being she stops the company and outrightly exterminates the Alien?
Quote from: xeno-kaname on Feb 26, 2015, 11:00:58 PMQuote from: Alien³ on Feb 26, 2015, 10:48:23 PMYeah that one :P Because as we all know the Alien species is alive and well. And also Walmart takes Wey-Yu's place so it's all for naught.Quote from: stroggificated on Feb 26, 2015, 10:45:56 PM
Alien-->Aliens-->Alien 3 = Bad ending
The bad ending being she stops the company and outrightly exterminates the Alien?
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 10:55:47 PMQuote from: Alien³ on Feb 26, 2015, 10:48:23 PMQuote from: stroggificated on Feb 26, 2015, 10:45:56 PM
Alien-->Aliens-->Alien 3 = Bad ending
The bad ending being she stops the company and outrightly exterminates the Alien?
That's really not saying much since the company gets their hands on the Aliens in A:CM.
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 11:22:05 PM
It's canon, tho. :P
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 11:22:05 PM*ding ding!*
It's canon, tho. :P
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Feb 26, 2015, 11:28:40 PMYeah, agree.
It's not remotely canon, and I assure you even the execs who once implied that to help sales have already forgotten all about it. None of the EU is canon or ever will be. It means nothing to anyone except the most hardcore fanbase, and that's not the demographic the studio is intent on re-pitching this franchise to. Same thing with the terrible Star Wars books or the dogged fans of that Terminator TV show - shit outta luck.
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 11:22:05 PM
It's canon, tho. :P
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Feb 26, 2015, 11:28:40 PM
None of the EU is canon or ever will be.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 26, 2015, 11:32:14 PMQuote from: SpeedyMaxx on Feb 26, 2015, 11:28:40 PM
None of the EU is canon or ever will be.
Does this also include the EU reboot with Fire and Stone, as well as the Titan Publishing books?
Quote from: Alien³ on Feb 26, 2015, 10:48:23 PM
The bad ending being she stops the company and outrightly exterminates the Alien?
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 10:55:47 PM
That's really not saying much since the company gets their hands on the Aliens in A:CM.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Feb 26, 2015, 11:28:40 PM
It's not remotely canon, and I assure you even the execs who once implied that to help sales have already forgotten all about it. None of the EU is canon or ever will be. It means nothing to anyone except the most hardcore fanbase, and that's not the demographic the studio is intent on re-pitching this franchise to. Same thing with the terrible Star Wars books or the dogged fans of that Terminator TV show - shit outta luck.
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 27, 2015, 12:14:05 AMQuote from: SpeedyMaxx on Feb 26, 2015, 11:28:40 PM
It's not remotely canon, and I assure you even the execs who once implied that to help sales have already forgotten all about it. None of the EU is canon or ever will be. It means nothing to anyone except the most hardcore fanbase, and that's not the demographic the studio is intent on re-pitching this franchise to. Same thing with the terrible Star Wars books or the dogged fans of that Terminator TV show - shit outta luck.
Sorry, but before I acknowledge something as canon, I'll need more to go on than the moans and groans of pissed off fanboys. :(
Quote from: stroggificated on Feb 27, 2015, 12:00:41 AMI care for Ripley, Hicks and Newt only.No one loves Bishop U.U
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Feb 26, 2015, 11:34:23 PMIt's a two way street. EU in all its forms usually bends to the movie stories because those get much more exposure than comics, games or novels. But the truth is one form of entertainment should not trump the other. It just happens that a lot of comic writers and novelists succumb to the changes that arrive with a new movie to have a more "connected" feel. It's more profitable. If all it takes is a big budget and Fox's big shiny stamp of approval/canon, then the AvP's, Predators, Prometheus are all connected and we already have at least one alternate timeline.Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 26, 2015, 11:32:14 PMQuote from: SpeedyMaxx on Feb 26, 2015, 11:28:40 PM
None of the EU is canon or ever will be.
Does this also include the EU reboot with Fire and Stone, as well as the Titan Publishing books?
Probably.
They'll market it to fans and they'll gloss over any answer they give the devoted fans and pretty it up, but the bottom line is? No director who ever comes into this franchise ever again, whether it's Neill Blomkamp or Ridley Scott or Jim Cameron or anyone else, is ever going to give a shit about any of that material or want anything to do with it. That goes for the games, the books, the comics, and yes, most especially the AVP films.
They may never say that outright to your face, they may say something vague and nice to keep you hoping, but that is exactly what is happening. Doesn't mean they will ever stop pushing the product while making new films, but the films will never be beholden to any of that. Nor should they be.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 27, 2015, 12:42:53 AM
Their deaths are hands down the strongest and most emotional narratives in the all the movies. The funeral scene is just as poetic, emotional and beautiful as it is sordid, cold-hearted and gruesome. Actually that is my top five favorite scenes of any Alien movie. The Hicks and Newt characters got the greatest farewell scene of any other character, except for maybe Ripley.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 27, 2015, 12:42:53 AMNa.
I cared jack shit about Hicks and Newt in ALIENS because they were so 80s two-dimensional.
Ironically enough A3 is the movie where they started feeling like real people that I cared about. Their deaths are hands down the strongest and most emotional narratives in the all the movies. The funeral scene is just as poetic, emotional and beautiful as it is sordid, cold-hearted and gruesome. Actually that is my top five favorite scenes of any Alien movie. The Hicks and Newt characters got the greatest farewell scene of any other character, except for maybe Ripley.
Quote from: xeno-kaname on Feb 27, 2015, 12:52:21 AMQuote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 27, 2015, 12:42:53 AMNa.
I cared jack shit about Hicks and Newt in ALIENS because they were so 80s two-dimensional.
Ironically enough A3 is the movie where they started feeling like real people that I cared about. Their deaths are hands down the strongest and most emotional narratives in the all the movies. The funeral scene is just as poetic, emotional and beautiful as it is sordid, cold-hearted and gruesome. Actually that is my top five favorite scenes of any Alien movie. The Hicks and Newt characters got the greatest farewell scene of any other character, except for maybe Ripley.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 27, 2015, 12:55:52 AMIt'll take a while. 7 stages of grief. The denial part is done and they're in the anger part.
Ok folks. We must unite! And agree to disagree about something we know almost nothing about! It's the only way!!
Quote from: xeno-kaname on Feb 27, 2015, 12:59:53 AMQuote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 27, 2015, 12:55:52 AMIt'll take a while. 7 stages of grief. The denial part is done and they're in the anger part.
Ok folks. We must unite! And agree to disagree about something we know almost nothing about! It's the only way!!
We need to accept this is happening. And that's it. Criticism should be left for the actual plot, which we really don't know anything about. Even I tire of these arguments. They're just one opinion vs the other.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 27, 2015, 12:55:52 AM
Ok folks. We must unite! And agree to disagree about something we know almost nothing about! It's the only way!!
Quote from: xeno-kaname on Feb 27, 2015, 12:59:53 AM
It'll take a while. 7 stages of grief. The denial part is done and they're in the anger part.
We need to accept this is happening. And that's it. Criticism should be left for the actual plot, which we really don't know anything about. Even I tire of these arguments. They're just one opinion vs the other.
Quote from: Liberator on Feb 27, 2015, 01:38:49 AM
The events of Alien 3 and 4 should be a bad dream or just forgotten like they never happened at all. The makers need to really go for this and make Alien 3 again the right way.
Quote from: Liberator on Feb 27, 2015, 01:38:49 AM
The events of Alien 3 and 4 should be a bad dream or just forgotten like they never happened at all. The makers need to really go for this and make Alien 3 again the right way.
Quote from: xeno-kaname on Feb 27, 2015, 12:59:53 AM
It'll take a while. 7 stages of grief. The denial part is done and they're in the anger part.
We need to accept this is happening. And that's it. Criticism should be left for the actual plot, which we really don't know anything about. Even I tire of these arguments. They're just one opinion vs the other.
Quote from: UHF on Feb 27, 2015, 01:45:54 AMYap. In fact, he's saying pretty much the complete opposite, there will be no retcon ;DQuote from: xeno-kaname on Feb 27, 2015, 12:59:53 AM
It'll take a while. 7 stages of grief. The denial part is done and they're in the anger part.
We need to accept this is happening. And that's it. Criticism should be left for the actual plot, which we really don't know anything about. Even I tire of these arguments. They're just one opinion vs the other.
No need for the veiled condescension.
There is absolutely nothing to accept. There has been NO hard confirmation a retcon will happen, and if you listen to this interview with Blomkamp ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9ihfeibtCQ#t=60 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9ihfeibtCQ#t=60) ) he says "I'm not trying to undo Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection".
Quote from: Magegg on Feb 27, 2015, 01:58:34 AMQuote from: UHF on Feb 27, 2015, 01:45:54 AMYap. In fact, he's saying pretty much the complete opposite, there will be no retcon ;DQuote from: xeno-kaname on Feb 27, 2015, 12:59:53 AM
It'll take a while. 7 stages of grief. The denial part is done and they're in the anger part.
We need to accept this is happening. And that's it. Criticism should be left for the actual plot, which we really don't know anything about. Even I tire of these arguments. They're just one opinion vs the other.
No need for the veiled condescension.
There is absolutely nothing to accept. There has been NO hard confirmation a retcon will happen, and if you listen to this interview with Blomkamp ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9ihfeibtCQ#t=60 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9ihfeibtCQ#t=60) ) he says "I'm not trying to undo Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection".
Quote from: Magegg on Feb 27, 2015, 01:58:34 AM
Yap. In fact, he's saying pretty much the complete opposite, there will be no retcon ;D
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 27, 2015, 02:04:12 AMQuote from: Magegg on Feb 27, 2015, 01:58:34 AM
Yap. In fact, he's saying pretty much the complete opposite, there will be no retcon ;D
But didn't he also say that he wasn't going to be following on with the Ripley 8 character? Didn't he or Weaver also say that this movie was set directly after ALIENS? I mean there wouldn't enough time for something to happen between the events of LV-426 and what happened on the Sulaco.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 27, 2015, 02:01:33 AM
Retcon or not I'm not excited about this movie at all. Don't think Blomkamp is the right person to direct this. Of course it could be worse (way worse), but still.
Quote from: Adam802 on Feb 27, 2015, 02:09:24 AMQuote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 27, 2015, 02:01:33 AM
Retcon or not I'm not excited about this movie at all. Don't think Blomkamp is the right person to direct this. Of course it could be worse (way worse), but still.
Just curious,
what WOULD you like to see in this new movie? A continuation from A3 with new characters?
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 27, 2015, 02:07:08 AM
I think he was being sarcastic.
Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Feb 27, 2015, 02:07:42 AM
Maybe they have another adventure on the Sulaco where the only survivors are, yet again, Ripley, Newt, and Hicks. As far as I know, nothing in Alien 3 would explicitly contradict that.
Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Feb 27, 2015, 02:11:21 AMDidn't Ripley supposedly destroyed the last xenomorph with her sacrifice? :DQuote from: Adam802 on Feb 27, 2015, 02:09:24 AMQuote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 27, 2015, 02:01:33 AM
Retcon or not I'm not excited about this movie at all. Don't think Blomkamp is the right person to direct this. Of course it could be worse (way worse), but still.
Just curious,
what WOULD you like to see in this new movie? A continuation from A3 with new characters?
Actually, yes, that would be good.
At least Michael Bay isn't directing it.
Quote from: Adam802 on Feb 27, 2015, 02:09:24 AMQuote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 27, 2015, 02:01:33 AM
Retcon or not I'm not excited about this movie at all. Don't think Blomkamp is the right person to direct this. Of course it could be worse (way worse), but still.
Just curious,
what WOULD you like to see in this new movie? A continuation from A3 with new characters?
Quote from: Magegg on Feb 27, 2015, 02:15:20 AMQuote from: Born Of Cold Light on Feb 27, 2015, 02:11:21 AMDidn't Ripley supposedly destroyed the last xenomorph with her sacrifice? :DQuote from: Adam802 on Feb 27, 2015, 02:09:24 AMQuote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 27, 2015, 02:01:33 AM
Retcon or not I'm not excited about this movie at all. Don't think Blomkamp is the right person to direct this. Of course it could be worse (way worse), but still.
Just curious,
what WOULD you like to see in this new movie? A continuation from A3 with new characters?
Actually, yes, that would be good.
At least Michael Bay isn't directing it.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 27, 2015, 02:14:21 AM
But how long were they floating in space on the Sulaco after the events of ALIENS? Can someone refresh my memory regarding that?
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 27, 2015, 02:14:21 AMIt took three weeks to get from Earth to LV-426. I assume a return trip would take the same amount of time. Of course, that all depends on whether or not the company purposely rerouted the Sulaco to Fiorina, as I've theorized before (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=44709.msg1482317#msg1482317).
But how long were they floating in space on the Sulaco after the events of ALIENS? Can someone refresh my memory regarding that?
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 27, 2015, 02:18:19 AMQuote from: Adam802 on Feb 27, 2015, 02:09:24 AMQuote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 27, 2015, 02:01:33 AM
Retcon or not I'm not excited about this movie at all. Don't think Blomkamp is the right person to direct this. Of course it could be worse (way worse), but still.
Just curious,
what WOULD you like to see in this new movie? A continuation from A3 with new characters?
Continue where A:R ended and deal with it. There are so many opportunities, so much potential. People just have to move forward and get out of the stalemate mindset that Cameron's ALIENS indirectly inflicted. ALIENS monumental success effectively ruined and handicapped the franchise.
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 27, 2015, 03:02:01 AM
Yeah, but the movie producers don't see it that way, they see Alien and AVP happening in the same universe and when fans advocated that some films in the universe go (the AVP films) then logically from the movie producers' eyes, that opens a door (and an invitation) to remove even more things from the same universe, aka the Alien films.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Feb 27, 2015, 03:16:10 AM
Decanoninizing (or relegating them to another canon or what have you) won't stop them from profiting on them, though. They can still bundle everything together, and still sell the individual releases to fans who are curious to check it all out, regardless of whether it is officially recognized in the current timeline. I'm sure the old X-Men movies got a boost in sales after DofP, even though it wiped the slate clean. Same with Superman 3 and 4 when Returns came out. Pretty sure they even did a five-film Superman bundle.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Feb 27, 2015, 03:16:10 AM
Decanoninizing (or relegating them to another canon or what have you) won't stop them from profiting on them, though. They can still bundle everything together, and still sell the individual releases to fans who are curious to check it all out, regardless of whether it is officially recognized in the current timeline. I'm sure the old X-Men movies got a boost in sales after DofP, even though it wiped the slate clean. Same with Superman 3 and 4 when Returns came out. Pretty sure they even did a five-film Superman bundle.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 27, 2015, 02:01:33 AMWell, if you think Alien 3 was the high point of the series, then I think it's better for us that you're not excited for this movie :P
Retcon or not I'm not excited about this movie at all. Don't think Blomkamp is the right person to direct this. Of course it could be worse (way worse), but still.
Quote from: Magegg on Feb 27, 2015, 03:39:28 AMQuote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 27, 2015, 02:01:33 AMWell, if you think Alien 3 was the high point of the series, then I think it's better for us that you're not excited for this movie :P
Retcon or not I'm not excited about this movie at all. Don't think Blomkamp is the right person to direct this. Of course it could be worse (way worse), but still.
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 27, 2015, 12:14:05 AMQuote from: SpeedyMaxx on Feb 26, 2015, 11:28:40 PM
It's not remotely canon, and I assure you even the execs who once implied that to help sales have already forgotten all about it. None of the EU is canon or ever will be. It means nothing to anyone except the most hardcore fanbase, and that's not the demographic the studio is intent on re-pitching this franchise to. Same thing with the terrible Star Wars books or the dogged fans of that Terminator TV show - shit outta luck.
Sorry, but before I acknowledge something as not canon, I'll need more to go on than the moans and groans of pissed off fanboys. :(
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 27, 2015, 01:10:01 AMLol wat. Although many people didn't like the decision to kill Hicks and Newt off, I think a majority of people DID accept it after a while. I know I did. It bothered me but I still liked the movie. And even a lot of those who didn't like the movie did accept it. But see they had the luxury to go in blind and figure out all the details only after actually seeing the movie. We're finding out stuff years before hand. So without anything to show for it the ideas for this movie are very hard to accept to some fans. Particularly the retcon.Quote from: xeno-kaname on Feb 27, 2015, 12:59:53 AMQuote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 27, 2015, 12:55:52 AMIt'll take a while. 7 stages of grief. The denial part is done and they're in the anger part.
Ok folks. We must unite! And agree to disagree about something we know almost nothing about! It's the only way!!
We need to accept this is happening. And that's it. Criticism should be left for the actual plot, which we really don't know anything about. Even I tire of these arguments. They're just one opinion vs the other.
It didn't sound like that when A3 lacked marines and escorted Hicks & Newt out of the story, did it? You've been bitching about it for 20+ years. But when they decide to delete and erase two entire movies, it is Zen time... Splendid!
Anyways, all we know is that A5 is going to be a Blomkamp film - amazing designs, poorly written characters, exploding bodies, and juvenile heroism pretending to be pragmatic and deep.
Quote from: UHF on Feb 27, 2015, 01:45:54 AMSo they haven't said the word "retcon." By proxy it is a retcon though. Again, going by what he said in both those videos. He might not be trying to, but he's going to push for his vision. And it seems unlikely it will link into A3 seamlessly.Quote from: xeno-kaname on Feb 27, 2015, 12:59:53 AM
It'll take a while. 7 stages of grief. The denial part is done and they're in the anger part.
We need to accept this is happening. And that's it. Criticism should be left for the actual plot, which we really don't know anything about. Even I tire of these arguments. They're just one opinion vs the other.
No need for the veiled condescension.
There is absolutely nothing to accept. There has been NO hard confirmation a retcon will happen, and if you listen to this interview with Blomkamp ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9ihfeibtCQ#t=60 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9ihfeibtCQ#t=60) ) he says "I'm not trying to undo Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection".
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 27, 2015, 02:18:19 AMBut that ain't happening anytime soon. We're just saying you have to deal with that.Quote from: Adam802 on Feb 27, 2015, 02:09:24 AMQuote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 27, 2015, 02:01:33 AM
Retcon or not I'm not excited about this movie at all. Don't think Blomkamp is the right person to direct this. Of course it could be worse (way worse), but still.
Just curious,
what WOULD you like to see in this new movie? A continuation from A3 with new characters?
Continue where A:R ended and deal with it. There are so many opportunities, so much potential. People just have to move forward and get out of the stalemate mindset that Cameron's ALIENS indirectly inflicted. ALIENS monumental success effectively ruined and handicapped the franchise.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Feb 27, 2015, 04:15:53 AMQuote from: predxeno on Feb 27, 2015, 12:14:05 AMQuote from: SpeedyMaxx on Feb 26, 2015, 11:28:40 PM
It's not remotely canon, and I assure you even the execs who once implied that to help sales have already forgotten all about it. None of the EU is canon or ever will be. It means nothing to anyone except the most hardcore fanbase, and that's not the demographic the studio is intent on re-pitching this franchise to. Same thing with the terrible Star Wars books or the dogged fans of that Terminator TV show - shit outta luck.
Sorry, but before I acknowledge something as not canon, I'll need more to go on than the moans and groans of pissed off fanboys. :(
LOL, this has nothing to do with how I feel. I never even played the game. It wouldn't matter if the game was the second coming of System Shock or Mass Effect, though - there is less than zero chance a film studio has any interest in tying its film canon down to a bunch of video games and promotional tie-in materials that only hardcore sci-fi buffs know about. That's a fact of life and we see it everyday. Expecting any of the video games or books or comic books over the last several decades to be seriously referenced or acknowledged as canon in these films in any way is dreaming. But you should know that by now. It's not about the geek hardcore. It's about the largest possible audience.
Quote from: Magegg on Feb 27, 2015, 03:39:28 AMQuote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 27, 2015, 02:01:33 AMWell, if you think Alien 3 was the high point of the series, then I think it's better for us that you're not excited for this movie :P
Retcon or not I'm not excited about this movie at all. Don't think Blomkamp is the right person to direct this. Of course it could be worse (way worse), but still.
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 27, 2015, 04:49:58 AMQuote from: SpeedyMaxx on Feb 27, 2015, 04:15:53 AMQuote from: predxeno on Feb 27, 2015, 12:14:05 AMQuote from: SpeedyMaxx on Feb 26, 2015, 11:28:40 PM
It's not remotely canon, and I assure you even the execs who once implied that to help sales have already forgotten all about it. None of the EU is canon or ever will be. It means nothing to anyone except the most hardcore fanbase, and that's not the demographic the studio is intent on re-pitching this franchise to. Same thing with the terrible Star Wars books or the dogged fans of that Terminator TV show - shit outta luck.
Sorry, but before I acknowledge something as not canon, I'll need more to go on than the moans and groans of pissed off fanboys. :(
LOL, this has nothing to do with how I feel. I never even played the game. It wouldn't matter if the game was the second coming of System Shock or Mass Effect, though - there is less than zero chance a film studio has any interest in tying its film canon down to a bunch of video games and promotional tie-in materials that only hardcore sci-fi buffs know about. That's a fact of life and we see it everyday. Expecting any of the video games or books or comic books over the last several decades to be seriously referenced or acknowledged as canon in these films in any way is dreaming. But you should know that by now. It's not about the geek hardcore. It's about the largest possible audience.
Yeah, I know expecting a video game or comic reference is a forlorn dream, but I still acknowledge them as canon (as in it actually happened) to the series.
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 08:52:09 PMQuote from: Horrific Hominid on Feb 26, 2015, 08:42:35 PM
The term "genetic sibling" leads me to believe that 3 and Resurrection won't be wiped out entirely. If this film was going to be a direct sequel to Aliens that completely ignored later continuity, they probably would have said it outright.
Normally I'd agree but when Prometheus was reported to have strands of Alien DNA in it, everyone took it literally and assume it to be a spinoff; since that worked out exactly as they said, I'm more inclined to listen to them now than I usually would.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 27, 2015, 08:39:38 AM
Predictable carnage while I was asleep.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Feb 27, 2015, 08:44:46 AMIt looks like the barricade didn't hold.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Feb 27, 2015, 11:08:01 AM
I wonder if Blomkamp has any idea the shit he's stepped into?
Quote from: Shamo on Feb 27, 2015, 10:58:14 AM
Really really bad idea in my opinion. Every Alien movie has its own unique tone and developed the story cohesively in a creative way. As a director of Alien 5 one should take the challenge and do the same. Just because you like the old ones better, you shouldn't just ignore where the story was going. To just scrap parts of the mythology, espsecially now iwth the expanded universe taking off through the books would really blow the hordes of long term fans out of the universe.
I don't know I just don't like it. It would mess up my whole viewing experience when I want to watch the whole series on a weekend.
I am not agasinst trying new things- but just scrapping stuff is a poor creative desicision. Why trying to copy Alien and Aliens? Especially with the Alien esque Ripley designs- you could really develope Ripley 8 into something more.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 26, 2015, 10:11:02 PMQuote from: predxeno on Feb 26, 2015, 10:09:15 PMOption 6:
Ripley and Hicks are still dead, but their templates are copied into synthetics who continue to carry on their work.
But why would anyone do that!
Quote from: Shamo on Feb 27, 2015, 10:58:14 AM
Really really bad idea in my opinion. Every Alien movie has its own unique tone and developed the story cohesively in a creative way. As a director of Alien 5 one should take the challenge and do the same. Just because you like the old ones better, you shouldn't just ignore where the story was going. To just scrap parts of the mythology, espsecially now iwth the expanded universe taking off through the books would really blow the hordes of long term fans out of the universe.
I don't know I just don't like it. It would mess up my whole viewing experience when I want to watch the whole series on a weekend.
I am not agasinst trying new things- but just scrapping stuff is a poor creative desicision. Why trying to copy Alien and Aliens? Especially with the Alien esque Ripley designs- you could really develope Ripley 8 into something more.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Feb 28, 2015, 01:51:46 AM
Again, we have no idea what this film may or may not do. Hicks is in it? Great. He could also be a flashback, dream sequence or waking hallucination. If 'Terminator 2' was being made and we had a picture or two of Sarah Connor interacting with Kyle Reese, people would be shouting RETCON from the virtual rooftops, right about now, too - but context would matter.
We know nothing, guys. Absolutely nothing, whatsoever.
Just hope it'll do its job as a movie and will prove entertaining
'Alien Isolation' is a big f**king massive retcon of the highest order, but nobody's up in arms about that. Everyone just loves how atmospheric it was (and, dare I say it, but perhaps her involvement with that title heavily contributed to Weaver's engagement with this one). If you can like that game, then there's just as much of a chance you could possibly like this, too.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 28, 2015, 02:17:43 AMQuote from: Xenomorphine on Feb 28, 2015, 01:51:46 AM
Again, we have no idea what this film may or may not do. Hicks is in it? Great. He could also be a flashback, dream sequence or waking hallucination. If 'Terminator 2' was being made and we had a picture or two of Sarah Connor interacting with Kyle Reese, people would be shouting RETCON from the virtual rooftops, right about now, too - but context would matter.
We know nothing, guys. Absolutely nothing, whatsoever.
Just hope it'll do its job as a movie and will prove entertaining
'Alien Isolation' is a big f**king massive retcon of the highest order, but nobody's up in arms about that. Everyone just loves how atmospheric it was (and, dare I say it, but perhaps her involvement with that title heavily contributed to Weaver's engagement with this one). If you can like that game, then there's just as much of a chance you could possibly like this, too.
Alien Isolation is a game, A5 is a movie.
Quote from: Valaquen on Feb 28, 2015, 10:26:32 PMThis is so surreal. Something that should've never happened but somehow is. Now with the actual possibility that Biehn is signing on after all, it's finally hitting me :o
Michael Biehn is at Pensacon 2015 and according to an attendee over at Reddit he has been contacted about the new movie.
http://www.reddit.com/r/LV426/comments/2xhmu0/michael_beihn_says_hes_been_contacted/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/LV426/comments/2xhmu0/michael_beihn_says_hes_been_contacted/)
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Feb 28, 2015, 01:51:46 AM
Again, we have no idea what this film may or may not do. Hicks is in it? Great. He could also be a flashback, dream sequence or waking hallucination. If 'Terminator 2' was being made and we had a picture or two of Sarah Connor interacting with Kyle Reese, people would be shouting RETCON from the virtual rooftops, right about now, too - but context would matter.
We know nothing, guys. Absolutely nothing, whatsoever.
Just hope it'll do its job as a movie and will prove entertaining.
'Alien Isolation' is a big f**king massive retcon of the highest order, but nobody's up in arms about that.
Quote from: Valaquen on Feb 28, 2015, 10:26:32 PM
Michael Biehn is at Pensacon 2015 and according to an attendee over at Reddit he has been contacted about the new movie.
http://www.reddit.com/r/LV426/comments/2xhmu0/michael_beihn_says_hes_been_contacted/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/LV426/comments/2xhmu0/michael_beihn_says_hes_been_contacted/)
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 28, 2015, 11:04:49 PMQuote from: Valaquen on Feb 28, 2015, 10:26:32 PM
Michael Biehn is at Pensacon 2015 and according to an attendee over at Reddit he has been contacted about the new movie.
http://www.reddit.com/r/LV426/comments/2xhmu0/michael_beihn_says_hes_been_contacted/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/LV426/comments/2xhmu0/michael_beihn_says_hes_been_contacted/)
Whoooooaaaaaaaaaaah! :o
All we need to know now is if Alien 3 and Resurrection are dreams or not.. I'm hoping they're not made into dreams.
Quote from: Rankles75 on Feb 28, 2015, 11:06:47 PM
Would explain the different cryotubes, different colour writing on the Sulaco and the magic egg if they were dreams though....
Quote from: CainsSon on Feb 28, 2015, 02:29:19 AM
Alien Isolation - to my knowledge... Just expanded on her daughter's story. Was there something else added that contradicts anything in the Alien films? Apart from the idea of the Company lying to ripley about her daughter. Cause that's not the same thing as a retcon.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 01, 2015, 01:07:34 AMTo be fair, all of those "continuity" issues you bring up can all be explained away really, really easily.Quote from: CainsSon on Feb 28, 2015, 02:29:19 AM
Alien Isolation - to my knowledge... Just expanded on her daughter's story. Was there something else added that contradicts anything in the Alien films? Apart from the idea of the Company lying to ripley about her daughter. Cause that's not the same thing as a retcon.
Burke had no reason to lie - and Ripley had every reason to look up her daughter's life details from non-company sources. She would have been at her utmost paranoid about trusting the company at that point. Finding out Amanda went off in search of her voice recorder to somewhere which came to grief, Nostromo-style, would have been a big red flag.
And the fact nobody's heard about anything remotely like the Alien... Nobody mentoning that the woman's daughter mentioned encountering something similar, at Ellen's own hearing? Not plausible.
And if the company was nefarious and evil, having a reason for covering it up, then they would have also had every reason to go and seek out LV-426 and actively scour it before Ellen returned. They didn't. It's just another colony to them. One which they never bothered putting any real dedicated bio-warfare personnel or facilities on.
The game's really well presented and worthy of being praised, but even its own writers copped out of providing an explanation for Amanda's inclusion. :)
So, again, if people can take that gaming experience to heart, they can enjoy a movie which retcons the third/fourth movie, too. 'Isolation' proved that, so well as something is done well, people just won't care.
Quote from: szkoki on Feb 25, 2015, 09:27:18 PMQuote from: Nightmare Asylum on Feb 25, 2015, 09:13:59 PM
Alien 3 isn't going anywhere. Even if I love this. Don't see what the problem with a different take would be.
cool lets make a completely new Star Wars Episode 4 and 5 movie then!
i hate the idea but i love the franchise and Sigourney, Blomkamp, also Micheal Biehn is a hellofa actor now!
but this story is just.. they are raping my childhood :D like AVP and AR werent enough
Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 01, 2015, 01:31:31 AM
Amanda's fate in the game and her fate in 'Aliens' don't line up, but the game ends on a massive cliffhanger so there's obviously more story to tell, and dozens of ways to tie it all together.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 01, 2015, 04:48:50 PMBut that's my point. The game, as it stands, is essentially retconning known canon. If taht changes in a future edition, great, but it has yet to do so.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 01, 2015, 05:45:57 PMWhen people encounter extraordinary things, the feel a desire to tell others about it when they've reached safety.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 01, 2015, 04:48:50 PM
So, until then, the game features a retcon - but people generally like it. :) That's why I say the same will apply to this project if it goes the same way.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 01, 2015, 06:20:06 PMQuote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 01, 2015, 04:48:50 PM
So, until then, the game features a retcon - but people generally like it. :) That's why I say the same will apply to this project if it goes the same way.
Whilst we don't know the full details about Alienkamp and how it'll return Ripley and Hicks, one of the options is to just ignore lien 3 and Resurrection. This is slightly different to Isolation as that doesn't effectively erase anything the current continuity.
Quote from: Adam802 on Mar 01, 2015, 08:36:24 PMJust ignore A3 and A:R. Dont officially make a reason for why A3 and A:R dont exist, just make a new movie. That way, people who like A3 and A:R can still enjoy them as canon if they want to. Also, trying to make a reason why A3/A:R didnt happen will just be contrived and forced.
Quote from: Taxemic on Mar 02, 2015, 12:16:28 AM
Guys these are films made for our entertainment. Believe whatever the f*** you want to believe.
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 01, 2015, 08:51:41 PMInteresting use of past-tense.Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 01, 2015, 06:20:06 PMQuote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 01, 2015, 04:48:50 PM
So, until then, the game features a retcon - but people generally like it. :) That's why I say the same will apply to this project if it goes the same way.
Whilst we don't know the full details about Alienkamp and how it'll return Ripley and Hicks, one of the options is to just ignore lien 3 and Resurrection. This is slightly different to Isolation as that doesn't effectively erase anything the current continuity.
No, you're correct- it simply created two continuities.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 02, 2015, 01:12:26 AMI wouldn't say "ALWAYS" cheap. I can name several remakes/reboots that ended up being very solid - John Carpenter's 'The Thing' is a remake and it's completely fantastic, the Star Trek reboot is great, Casino Royale is great, the Nolan Batman movies are reboots and they're arguably better than the Schumacher ones, The Amazing Spider-Man is pretty great, the Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Halloween remakes are pretty great, the Thomas Jane 'Punisher' is worlds better than the Dolph Lundgren one, 'The Ring' US remake is fantastic, and that's off the top of my head.Quote from: Taxemic on Mar 02, 2015, 12:16:28 AM
Guys these are films made for our entertainment. Believe whatever the f*** you want to believe.
Well, the reason I care is that sequels revive the movie prior to it and continues building on what already had been built. Ignoring movies is the same as undoing them in the long run, especially if the new retcon sequels are successful. A3 will be fade away, which is a pity it's an amazing movie that deserves better than that. I also hate retcons, reboots and remakes in general because they are ALWAYS cheap. It's the laziest thing one can do movie-wise, especially retcons. I don't want my favorite sci-fi movie franchise to go that sad route.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 02, 2015, 01:22:14 AMQuote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 01, 2015, 08:51:41 PMInteresting use of past-tense.Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 01, 2015, 06:20:06 PMQuote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 01, 2015, 04:48:50 PM
So, until then, the game features a retcon - but people generally like it. :) That's why I say the same will apply to this project if it goes the same way.
Whilst we don't know the full details about Alienkamp and how it'll return Ripley and Hicks, one of the options is to just ignore lien 3 and Resurrection. This is slightly different to Isolation as that doesn't effectively erase anything the current continuity.
No, you're correct- it simply created two continuities.Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 02, 2015, 01:12:26 AMI wouldn't say "ALWAYS" cheap. I can name several remakes/reboots that ended up being very solid - John Carpenter's 'The Thing' is a remake and it's completely fantastic, the Star Trek reboot is great, Casino Royale is great, the Nolan Batman movies are reboots and they're arguably better than the Schumacher ones, The Amazing Spider-Man is pretty great, the Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Halloween remakes are pretty great, the Thomas Jane 'Punisher' is worlds better than the Dolph Lundgren one, 'The Ring' US remake is fantastic, and that's off the top of my head.Quote from: Taxemic on Mar 02, 2015, 12:16:28 AM
Guys these are films made for our entertainment. Believe whatever the f*** you want to believe.
Well, the reason I care is that sequels revive the movie prior to it and continues building on what already had been built. Ignoring movies is the same as undoing them in the long run, especially if the new retcon sequels are successful. A3 will be fade away, which is a pity it's an amazing movie that deserves better than that. I also hate retcons, reboots and remakes in general because they are ALWAYS cheap. It's the laziest thing one can do movie-wise, especially retcons. I don't want my favorite sci-fi movie franchise to go that sad route.
Remakes and reboots can be bad, but they're not universally, categorically bad.
Also any movie sequel ends up having retcons in it. It's the nature of continuing a story that otherwise had "an ending". Literally every sequel in any medium since the dawn of mankind has had "retcons" in them to varying degrees.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 02, 2015, 02:07:01 AM
I don't disagree there, and I'm very much against retconning Alien3 out of existence (partly on principle, and partly because I like the movie quite a bit). I was more of making the point that retcons aren't necessarily bad things when they're handled right. Like you, I don't think this is one of those times though. :P
Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 02, 2015, 02:51:06 AM
Sometimes, they don't get it right the first time. :P
Serious question: Have you seen John Carpenter's 'The Thing'?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 02, 2015, 03:17:04 AM
Follow-up question: What did you think of it?
Quote from: Gash on Mar 02, 2015, 03:40:29 AMStrongly disagree that the prequel is a remake of the Carpenter movie. Pretty much every place it could be different, it was different.
The Thing 82 is much less a remake of the Thing From Another World than it is a return to the source material, only really borrowing the title sequence. The Thing 2010 on the other hand is practically a beat for beat remake of The Thing 82. And that was pretending to be a prequel. Why it couldn't have been an amalgum of The Thing from Another World and the expanded elements of Dean Fosters 82 novelisation is anyone's guess - then at least it might have had some new variations to show off.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Mar 02, 2015, 03:34:37 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on Mar 02, 2015, 03:17:04 AM
Follow-up question: What did you think of it?
Very gory and b-movie like in a scary and perfectly disturbing kind of way and the The Thing From Another World (1951) I've always been a sucker for and is quite different from Carpenter's interpretation. They're on par for me. The difference here is that The Thing is based on a novel which makes the whole remake thing of a different nature and doesn't really compare to an actual retcon, reboot or remake.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 01, 2015, 01:31:31 AMQuote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 01, 2015, 01:07:34 AMTo be fair, all of those "continuity" issues you bring up can all be explained away really, really easily.Quote from: CainsSon on Feb 28, 2015, 02:29:19 AM
Alien Isolation - to my knowledge... Just expanded on her daughter's story. Was there something else added that contradicts anything in the Alien films? Apart from the idea of the Company lying to ripley about her daughter. Cause that's not the same thing as a retcon.
Burke had no reason to lie - and Ripley had every reason to look up her daughter's life details from non-company sources. She would have been at her utmost paranoid about trusting the company at that point. Finding out Amanda went off in search of her voice recorder to somewhere which came to grief, Nostromo-style, would have been a big red flag.
And the fact nobody's heard about anything remotely like the Alien... Nobody mentoning that the woman's daughter mentioned encountering something similar, at Ellen's own hearing? Not plausible.
And if the company was nefarious and evil, having a reason for covering it up, then they would have also had every reason to go and seek out LV-426 and actively scour it before Ellen returned. They didn't. It's just another colony to them. One which they never bothered putting any real dedicated bio-warfare personnel or facilities on.
The game's really well presented and worthy of being praised, but even its own writers copped out of providing an explanation for Amanda's inclusion. :)
So, again, if people can take that gaming experience to heart, they can enjoy a movie which retcons the third/fourth movie, too. 'Isolation' proved that, so well as something is done well, people just won't care.
Amanda's fate in the game and her fate in 'Aliens' don't line up, but the game ends on a massive cliffhanger so there's obviously more story to tell, and dozens of ways to tie it all together.
W-Y didn't scour LV-426 for Alien stuff because they didn't know it was there - you shut off the Derelict's beacon in Isolation, and all other data from the Nostromo incident was destroyed (or floating in the Narcissus, awaiting pickup decades later). Even the crew files in the inquest in 'Aliens' mention the Nostromo case had been closed years after Isolation is supposed to take place - W-Y had simply stopped searching. It was obviously getting to be cost prohibitive - they'd lost the Nostromo, and 15 years later they lost an entire space station, all with absolutely nothing to show for it.
I mean we're not talking Colonial Marines degrees of continuity speedbumps here.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 01, 2015, 05:45:57 PM
When people encounter extraordinary things, the feel a desire to tell others about it when they've reached safety.
She'd also be a key witness as to what happened to the station and Weyland-Yutani personnel who were travelling with her. Plus, it would have cleared her mother's name of any suspicion of blame, whatsoever; providing a solution to that old mystery was clearly something she felt very strongly about.
Quote from: Xhan on Mar 02, 2015, 04:16:47 AMYeah but that's just, like, your opinion, man.Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 01, 2015, 01:31:31 AMQuote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 01, 2015, 01:07:34 AMTo be fair, all of those "continuity" issues you bring up can all be explained away really, really easily.Quote from: CainsSon on Feb 28, 2015, 02:29:19 AM
Alien Isolation - to my knowledge... Just expanded on her daughter's story. Was there something else added that contradicts anything in the Alien films? Apart from the idea of the Company lying to ripley about her daughter. Cause that's not the same thing as a retcon.
Burke had no reason to lie - and Ripley had every reason to look up her daughter's life details from non-company sources. She would have been at her utmost paranoid about trusting the company at that point. Finding out Amanda went off in search of her voice recorder to somewhere which came to grief, Nostromo-style, would have been a big red flag.
And the fact nobody's heard about anything remotely like the Alien... Nobody mentoning that the woman's daughter mentioned encountering something similar, at Ellen's own hearing? Not plausible.
And if the company was nefarious and evil, having a reason for covering it up, then they would have also had every reason to go and seek out LV-426 and actively scour it before Ellen returned. They didn't. It's just another colony to them. One which they never bothered putting any real dedicated bio-warfare personnel or facilities on.
The game's really well presented and worthy of being praised, but even its own writers copped out of providing an explanation for Amanda's inclusion. :)
So, again, if people can take that gaming experience to heart, they can enjoy a movie which retcons the third/fourth movie, too. 'Isolation' proved that, so well as something is done well, people just won't care.
Amanda's fate in the game and her fate in 'Aliens' don't line up, but the game ends on a massive cliffhanger so there's obviously more story to tell, and dozens of ways to tie it all together.
W-Y didn't scour LV-426 for Alien stuff because they didn't know it was there - you shut off the Derelict's beacon in Isolation, and all other data from the Nostromo incident was destroyed (or floating in the Narcissus, awaiting pickup decades later). Even the crew files in the inquest in 'Aliens' mention the Nostromo case had been closed years after Isolation is supposed to take place - W-Y had simply stopped searching. It was obviously getting to be cost prohibitive - they'd lost the Nostromo, and 15 years later they lost an entire space station, all with absolutely nothing to show for it.
I mean we're not talking Colonial Marines degrees of continuity speedbumps here.
No, they can't; unless you're the kind of mouthbreather par excellence that thinks Big Show really does hate Dolph Ziggler for taking his lunchmoney because it's all so, so very real. A:I shits all over Ripley's characterization and you can't say otherwise unless you're an apologist. Ripley was always ahead of the curve and that's why she and anyone else survived Acheron in the first place.
QuoteI think he refers to Ripley's characterization as in she didn't check out Burke's information on Amanda for herself or search for any mention of aliens.It assumes Ripley would have found anything to contradict what Burke said, as well. Amanda Ripley's life (not to mention, how her life would be documented) between A:I and her death is one huge blank slate with dozens of ways to fill in the gaps leading to 'Aliens'.
Quote from: Xhan on Mar 02, 2015, 04:16:47 AMQuote from: Xenomrph on Mar 01, 2015, 01:31:31 AMQuote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 01, 2015, 01:07:34 AMTo be fair, all of those "continuity" issues you bring up can all be explained away really, really easily.Quote from: CainsSon on Feb 28, 2015, 02:29:19 AM
Alien Isolation - to my knowledge... Just expanded on her daughter's story. Was there something else added that contradicts anything in the Alien films? Apart from the idea of the Company lying to ripley about her daughter. Cause that's not the same thing as a retcon.
Burke had no reason to lie - and Ripley had every reason to look up her daughter's life details from non-company sources. She would have been at her utmost paranoid about trusting the company at that point. Finding out Amanda went off in search of her voice recorder to somewhere which came to grief, Nostromo-style, would have been a big red flag.
And the fact nobody's heard about anything remotely like the Alien... Nobody mentoning that the woman's daughter mentioned encountering something similar, at Ellen's own hearing? Not plausible.
And if the company was nefarious and evil, having a reason for covering it up, then they would have also had every reason to go and seek out LV-426 and actively scour it before Ellen returned. They didn't. It's just another colony to them. One which they never bothered putting any real dedicated bio-warfare personnel or facilities on.
The game's really well presented and worthy of being praised, but even its own writers copped out of providing an explanation for Amanda's inclusion. :)
So, again, if people can take that gaming experience to heart, they can enjoy a movie which retcons the third/fourth movie, too. 'Isolation' proved that, so well as something is done well, people just won't care.
Amanda's fate in the game and her fate in 'Aliens' don't line up, but the game ends on a massive cliffhanger so there's obviously more story to tell, and dozens of ways to tie it all together.
W-Y didn't scour LV-426 for Alien stuff because they didn't know it was there - you shut off the Derelict's beacon in Isolation, and all other data from the Nostromo incident was destroyed (or floating in the Narcissus, awaiting pickup decades later). Even the crew files in the inquest in 'Aliens' mention the Nostromo case had been closed years after Isolation is supposed to take place - W-Y had simply stopped searching. It was obviously getting to be cost prohibitive - they'd lost the Nostromo, and 15 years later they lost an entire space station, all with absolutely nothing to show for it.
I mean we're not talking Colonial Marines degrees of continuity speedbumps here.
No, they can't; unless you're the kind of mouthbreather par excellence that thinks Big Show really does hate Dolph Ziggler for taking his lunchmoney because it's all so, so very real. A:I shits all over Ripley's characterization and you can't say otherwise unless you're an apologist. Ripley was always ahead of the curve and that's why she and anyone else survived Acheron in the first place.
Quote from: Xhan on Mar 02, 2015, 04:55:32 AMTo claim the novels are contradicted every couple of years, aside from being objectively false, ignores the fact that the movies "contradict" each other to the same degree as well (that is to say, very very little).
Cameron did show that; it was the entire f**king reason for Ripley to take anything Burke said at face value, which is the entire reason for Ripley to be on board in the first place.
Cameron wouldn't have wasted film on it otherwise.
A novel? You mean the same article of faith that are routinely contradicted by other novels and media every couple of years?
What an absolutely definitive source you discovered.
(Actually you just made my earlier point for me)
QuoteTo claim the novels are contradicted every couple of years, aside from being objectively false,All comics made from 1987-1992 were contradicted by Alien3 when it killed Hicks and Newt, then everything between 1992-1997 was contradicted by Alien Resurrection when it made it clear the Alien died with Ripley, so, y'know, every five years or so for a while there.
Quoteignores the fact that the movies "contradict" each other to the same degree as well (that is to say, very very little).Until it turns out Blomkamp is actually ignoring A3 and Resurrection to have Hicks still be alive, no.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Mar 02, 2015, 07:37:20 AM
It's good to see you're still taking Alien: Isolation's success in stride.
Quote from: SiL on Mar 02, 2015, 08:40:04 AMNovels, not comics. :)QuoteTo claim the novels are contradicted every couple of years, aside from being objectively false,All comics made from 1987-1992 were contradicted by Alien3 when it killed Hicks and Newt, then everything between 1992-1997 was contradicted by Alien Resurrection when it made it clear the Alien died with Ripley, so, y'know, every five years or so for a while there.Quoteignores the fact that the movies "contradict" each other to the same degree as well (that is to say, very very little).Until it turns out Blomkamp is actually ignoring A3 and Resurrection to have Hicks still be alive, no.
Quote from: Xhan on Mar 02, 2015, 08:47:27 AM
Insertion begets criticism.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 02, 2015, 08:53:09 AMFuuuuuuuck 1997 was 18 years ago.
So the whole "contradicted every few years" idea hasn't even been remotely true for almost the past 20 years. :P
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Mar 02, 2015, 09:03:47 AMYeah, I hope they will be reprinted once again with the right names :)
I saw Alien 3 (and Resurrection) in the theater and I'm just trying not to think about the time span.
I probably should've held onto my old DH/Earth War trades from before they retconned all the f**king character names. Wilkes and Billie my ass!