Prometheus vehicles exposed

Started by Valaquen, Aug 28, 2011, 08:22:11 AM

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Prometheus vehicles exposed (Read 61,926 times)

ThisBethesdaSea

ThisBethesdaSea

#90
Okay okay......"I think Ridley has had plenty of experience with action films recently to make this film's action on par with ALIENS."

REALLY? Really? Seriously, you just hoped that Ridley Scott matched Cambos directing instincts?

Who wants that? I don't want the action to look akin to ALIENS. I want, if anything,  the film to have the tonal qualities and pacing of A L I E N. Ridley started this mythology, all others come after him. I don't want Prometheus to have ANYTHING in common with ALIENS. Not that I don't LOVE and enjoy ALIENS, I do, I just want that film left alone.

We're in new territory. Ridley Scott is a competent enough director, despite his missteps. Cameron has them to. The Abyss, True Lies anyone?

SpaceMarines

SpaceMarines

#91
Hey, True Lies is a classic! In a very cheesy, overthetop, fun way. And I actually liked The Abyss a fair bit. Wasn't great, but I felt it was pretty good.

But yeah, I agree with you. Riddles certainly can handle action scenes (and judging from some of the shots of guys with guns, this may have one or two), but I don't want him to do anything like Aliens in this movie. Should be closest in tone with the original, if anything.

I'll wait for The Forever War to see Scott combine his talent for war and sci-fi.

Gash

Gash

#92
Titanic, True Lies, The Abyss, Avatar, Aliens....

I haven't seen all of Scott's work, but he has five out and out classics and another five high quality films so I reckon I'll take any Scott film over Cameron's perceived "Masterpieces".

Scott is a visionary, particularly in Sci-fi or historicals, his choices and style have had a deeper cultural significance within film and tv, and beyond than can be easily measured. That's why Prometheus holds such promise, the man that brought all these things together (things that have been ripped off mercilessly ever since) is going back, and you can be sure that he won't feel the need to be honouring any pretenders.

NUB DESTROYER

NUB DESTROYER

#93
Quote from: Gash on Aug 31, 2011, 04:49:26 AM
Titanic, True Lies, The Abyss, Avatar, Aliens....

I haven't seen all of Scott's work, but he has five out and out classics and another five high quality films so I reckon I'll take any Scott film over Cameron's perceived "Masterpieces".

Scott is a visionary, particularly in Sci-fi or historicals, his choices and style have had a deeper cultural significance within film and tv, and beyond than can be easily measured. That's why Prometheus holds such promise, the man that brought all these things together (things that have been ripped off mercilessly ever since) is going back, and you can be sure that he won't feel the need to be honouring any pretenders.

Those are great movies you mentioned above by Cameron. But if you will measure a director's greatness by the amount of "classics" he has... then IMDb would probably be a good tool to average up the ratings for each of artists' total directorial works.  I'm not going to do this, but I'm willing to bet Cameron has a higher average rating than Scott.

ThisBethesdaSea

Aside from George Hack Lucas, what other director has revisited a franchise the way Scott is?

Xenomrph

Xenomrph

#95
Quote from: Gash on Aug 31, 2011, 04:49:26 AM
Titanic, True Lies, The Abyss, Avatar, Aliens....
All five of those movies are objectively pretty great, one of them was revolutionary in the CGI technology it pioneered, and two of them are the highest-grossing movies of all time. The only one on that list that could even be remotely considered a "miss" is 'The Abyss', and even then it's 67% fresh if you go by only the top critics (88% if you don't) and was still a huge success. Literally every single movie James Cameron has done has been a huge success both financially and critically, except for his very first movie back in 1981.

Compare that with GI Jane, Robin Hood, Body of Lies, A Good Year, Kingdom of Heaven, Hannibal, and Black Rain.

Ridley Scott hasn't done a sci-fi movie since 'Blade Runner', and that was nearly 30 years ago. In the past 10 years alone he's had 5 movies that critics and audiences largely considered "crappy", including his last two movies.
People have plenty of reason to be concerned about Ridley Scott's ability.

Also 'Aliens' has been "ripped off" more than 'Alien'.

Valaquen

Valaquen

#96
The Abyss is also the birth place of photoshop. ILM guy John Knoll worked on the film, and was given a program by his brother Thomas to help with effects shots. That program became Photoshop. The extended cut of The Abyss is fantastic by the way. The film's also a source of a lot of legend - by that, I mean crap. Ed Harris punching Cameron and Cameron making the crew piss themselves in their wetsuits. All bullshit and denied by the cast and crew, but nobody cares - you can't stop a good story!

I'd say True Lies is the only truly weak film in his filmography, and even Stanley Kubrick was wowed by that film - so much that he invited Cameron over and they watched it together, with Stan asking Jimbo how he pulled off the effects shots. That sure sounds like a dream come true. No arguiing that the Terminator movies and Aliens are bona-fide classics. Titanic you can sneer at, but it defied all odds and annihilated the BO, and pushed effects work at the same time. Cameron even out his own director's fee into the movie [he gave up his pay in Aliens to secure the shot of Ripley being found in hypersleep - last shot to be filmed.]

For a guy who taught himself the trade, Cameron's done great. It's easy [and incredibly snobby, IMO] to exclaim that Ridley's an artiste and Cameron's a hack. Probably won't phase those two at all. They seem to get on very well.

Highland

Highland

#97
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Aug 30, 2011, 10:50:13 PM
Quote from: Highland on Aug 30, 2011, 10:05:28 PM
It could be something else entirely.

It doesn't make sense to me to build such a massive prop for something that could be quite easily CGI'd for half the cost.

The same can be said for what appears to be the derelict ship and the Prometheus ship. But they built those too. By the way, actual prop construction is cheaper then CGI these days. Times are changing.

Debatable. It's a landing leg (supposedly), not a Velociraptor. The derelict ship and the Prometheus ship are understandable, they would bring a more believable performance from the cast.

If it's a greater part of a machine that the crew interact with, then I guess it makes sense......maybe.  :P

QuoteIt could work out cheaper to just build that part in the long run -- once it's there, it's there, and you don't have to worry about match-moving, compositing, rendering, etc. later for every shot that it needs to be in.

Possibly, how many times would you need a giant landing leg though...

Gash

Gash

#98
Quote from: prometheUSA on Aug 31, 2011, 05:12:41 AM
Quote from: Gash on Aug 31, 2011, 04:49:26 AM
Titanic, True Lies, The Abyss, Avatar, Aliens....

I haven't seen all of Scott's work, but he has five out and out classics and another five high quality films so I reckon I'll take any Scott film over Cameron's perceived "Masterpieces".


Those are great movies you mentioned above by Cameron. But if you will measure a director's greatness by the amount of "classics" he has... then IMDb would probably be a good tool to average up the ratings for each of artists' total directorial works.  I'm not going to do this, but I'm willing to bet Cameron has a higher average rating than Scott.

Not for me. I reviewed Cameron on IMDB and wasn't impressed. Didn't even mention Piranha 2, although I think if he'd stuck to that level I might not regard his output as overhyped badly written, massively expensive drivel.

Look into my eye

Look into my eye

#99
Quote from: Gash on Aug 31, 2011, 04:41:38 PM
Quote from: prometheUSA on Aug 31, 2011, 05:12:41 AM
Quote from: Gash on Aug 31, 2011, 04:49:26 AM
Titanic, True Lies, The Abyss, Avatar, Aliens....

I haven't seen all of Scott's work, but he has five out and out classics and another five high quality films so I reckon I'll take any Scott film over Cameron's perceived "Masterpieces".


Those are great movies you mentioned above by Cameron. But if you will measure a director's greatness by the amount of "classics" he has... then IMDb would probably be a good tool to average up the ratings for each of artists' total directorial works.  I'm not going to do this, but I'm willing to bet Cameron has a higher average rating than Scott.

Not for me. I reviewed Cameron on IMDB and wasn't impressed. Didn't even mention Piranha 2, although I think if he'd stuck to that level I might not regard his output as overhyped badly written, massively expensive drivel.



Seriously dude?
I take it your not into character driven spectacles that push the boundries of film making?
Piranha 2 was his first directing gig, everybody starts somewhere.
You think his movies are badly written?Sir, you have an extremely strange idea of what poor writing is.Please give an example of what you think is good writing so we can compare to his writing.

Go check out the Star Wars prequels to see what badly written actually means, George Lucas could learn a thing or two from Cameron.




Valaquen

Valaquen

#100
Quote from: Gash on Aug 31, 2011, 04:41:38 PM
Not for me. I reviewed Cameron on IMDB and wasn't impressed. Didn't even mention Piranha 2, although I think if he'd stuck to that level I might not regard his output as overhyped badly written, massively expensive drivel.
Cameron practically directed Piranha 2 in name only - he was hired for 7-12 days [number varies] and was fired. Didn't get a cut on the film or nothing. It's not a Cameron film. Other directors worked on the film for longer than he did - they just didn't become high profile directors worthy of mention.

Aside from a few clunker lines in Titanic and Avatar, I consider his writing to be generally solid [he's probably the most quoted sci-fi film-maker, from "I'll be back" all the way through Aliens and T2]. Avatar is a weak link, but he never pretended it was for harder sci-fi fans, saying from the start it was meant to be a fairtytale-esque story for the 8's and uppers. He hit it on the nail, considering the receipts. I find that a lot of the anti-Cameron folk are as rabid as the overly pro-Cameron folk, it's funny. A lot of them love to run on the myths that have enveloped the guy for the past few years, [making actors piss themselves, his crew hate him, etc]. The only time I though his writing fell to pieces was with Strange Days; that fell to ribbons by the end. He also helped write Point Break but was uncredited [his Bigelow stage, from their marriage]

Xenomrph

Xenomrph

#101
He also co-wrote Rambo 2, if I'm remembering right. :P

Really Cameron's track record as a director is objectively pretty unimpeachable. You might not like his style or all of his movies or whatever, but on a filmmaking level they're all very highly regarded (except for 'The Abyss', sorta) and have been groundbreaking technical achievements that also happen to be some of the best-remembered, most-quoted, most-copied, and highest-grossing movies of all time.

You can't really say the same thing about Ridley Scott.

No one is saying Ridley Scott is a hack, just that it might be a little short-sighted to assume Prometheus is going to be cinematic bliss just because he's directing it. No matter what you think of James Cameron, it doesn't change the fact that Ridley Scott hasn't done sci-fi in 30 years, has actually gone on record saying he doesn't particularly like doing sci-fi (which is why he hasn't done it in 30 years), and his last couple movies were not well-received.

Valaquen

Valaquen

#102
Quote from: Xenomrph on Aug 31, 2011, 07:11:35 PM
He also co-wrote Rambo 2, if I'm remembering right. :P

Kind of. Here's a scene from Cameron's sript:

QuoteCO
You try get across Laos? Get to
Thailand?

RAMBO
(nodding)
Yeah. Got some business there.
What are you gonna do?

CO
(shrugs)
Go United States. See Nguyen.
Maybe teach economics. Buy
Cadillac. Watch "Dynasty."

RAMBO
How you going to get there? You
can't trust the spooks to pull you
out. They'll use you up and throw
you away.

CO
I know. I go with you.

RAMBO
I couldn't get you in.

Co stops her work and replies very quietly.

CO
Yes you can.

RAMBO
How?

Co's gaze holds his and her Cheshire grin flickers.

CO
As wife.

Rambo realizes she is serious. The silence drags when he
realizes how good that sounds to him at this moment. And
how small a price that is to repay her.

RAMBO
(with finality)
Okay. Done. You got it.

She seems a bit shocked, then smiles impishly.

CO
You too easy.

Co's hands have been all over him but only now does he
become aware of them on his shoulders.

She draws her face up to his but Rambo pulls back from the
kiss. Co looks puzzled as he slowly disengages from her
contact.

CO
You don't feel love, Rambo?

He leans back against the wall.

RAMBO
Look, Co...

CO
Why you don't feel love? Not
allowed?
(her tone becomes
aggressive)
Dead inside, maybe? You make
yourself dead already so they can't
kill you? In-vulnerabo? Bullshit!

She advances on him until her face is close to his, her
words finding their mark.

CO
(continuing)
Bucu bullshit!
(pause)
I have enough death already.
Husband. Mother. Father.
Brothers. Death everywhere.

She points into the undergrowth nearby, to a ghostly
blossom growing there among the tangled vines.

CO
You see? A flower like that need
good soil to grow. Many time under
earth is bones of animal... or
person. Killed in jungle. Make
soil rich. Grows most beautiful
flower. You call orchid. Many
deaths in jungle. Vietnamese, V.C.,
American. Many beautiful flowers.

CO
(terrified)
What was that?

RAMBO
Minigun. Come on. Let's move.
He's coming in on our open side.

And here's how Stallone rewrote it [and how it appears in the film:

QuoteCO
what you do now, trying to get across to Thailand?

RAMBO
Yeah

CO
Then go America?

RAMBO
Yeah

CO
You take me with you?

*Kiss

CO
You take me?

RAMBO
Yeah

CO
I think you made good choice

RAMBO
Yeah

CO
We go?

RAMBO
Let's go

:laugh:

StrangeShape

StrangeShape

#103
Bad writing= things dont make sense, plotholes, story contradicts itself, things and motivations arent properly explained, pacing is off. Everything else is subjective and depends on what the movie's aiming for, what type of a story it is etc, its never good or bad, its subjective.

Gash

Gash

#104
That's the reason I didn't originally mention Piranha 2, because I've no idea how involved he was in that or Galaxy of Terror, but obviously the fact that he's successful has made the owners of those films attempt to benefit from association. However, films like Titanic and True Lies are terribly written. Titanic is a horribly shallow (if pretty) remake of A Night to Remember, True Lies is substandard Bond with uncomfortable jingoism thrown in. Aliens is Cameron's best film, although I personally find it unengaging and inadequate as a sequel (if it were a standalone film it would be ok - if it were unrelated to  A  L  I  E  N   I might even like it). I find Cameron interesting in terms of the way he has pushed technology but his films always seem to stem from other directors/writers ideas. The dialogue is universally awful, but always features some fanboy pleasing (or is that cringe inducing?) one liners. But those are the sort of films he makes, they have a big fanbase in a certain demographic. That demographic doesn't include me.

What can I say? On the positive side I'll point out his investment in technical film making issues which have advanced certain aspects of film making (I won't blame Cameron for other film makers over reliance on CGI), but he'll never be a favourite director. I find his films overlong (even before the director's cut), overhyped, excessively wasteful - which surprises me as he came from the Roger Corman school where making the best of what you've got was a necessity - and I just can't see why he his held in such esteem. He doesn't make daft sci-fi, there are solid ideas behind them.. sort of, yet the way he does it irritates me. It may just be that it's big and crowd-pleasing and ultimately predictable. I understand why that's appealing, but I want something more 'left field' in cinema.

In other words I can ignore most of his output and it makes no odds to me, but unfortunately Aliens is considered canon to a film I consider an all time classic. Still, there are now a bunch of awful 'official' offspring to A  L  I  E  N  , so it's just part of bigger picture. I'd rather just leave it with Ripley and Jones floating through space on the Narcissus and forget the direction it took after.

Ridley has certainly made a batch of lacklustre films, but none of them (those that I've seen) irritate me. He has an eclectic mix of stories in his oeuvre. Some of those appeal to me and others don't. But where Ridley is given full reign with his artistic skills the whole experience is far more immersive and potent. His films are more thought provoking, things are suggested without being overstated. He can do quiet intimacy, brooding atmosphere, action and violence with a a sense of maturity. That may be a more English approach, and my preference might simply come down to that.

i guess it's dangerous to suggest that Prometheus is going to be the best sci-fi film since Blade Runner, and maybe give some maturity back to Sci Fi after it's years of being hi-jacked as a juvenile genre, yet the fact that it is Ridley Scott does create a great hope that it will be. It won't be pompous, but we can be pretty sure it will be suspenseful and horrific, and against Ridley's visual sense that should make it something worth waiting for.

Honestly I wouldn't have felt any enthusiasm for Alien 5 in Cameron's hands. But it's all relative. if Cameron had made another sequel it would obviously be better than AVP:R (how could it not be) but I still doubt I would have seen it until it cropped up on TV.

And on relativity, yep, Lucas's prequels were awful. Cameron's films are more focused around one idea and not bogged down in tying up continuity, but still I don't think I'll go out of my way to check out Cameron's offerings again. Just not my bag.

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