Posted by OpenMaw
- Apr 23, 2020, 10:09:27 AMIt is important for general audiences. It's typical Mcternian direction.
This movie is about an alien hunter. Right up front. The next half hour of movie is concerned with ratcheting the tension. You know there's something, you're just waiting for it to show up.
This movie is about an alien hunter. Right up front. The next half hour of movie is concerned with ratcheting the tension. You know there's something, you're just waiting for it to show up.
Posted by PredBabe
- Apr 03, 2020, 04:04:49 AMTrue, the tech definitely gives it away if nothing else.
I still don't think it ruins the reveal at the end as that was more shocking due to the impressive design and creature effects. Though maybe it would have been more effective for the med kit scene. It's just foreshadowing though, a quick shot to let people know that something sc-fi-y is going on before jumping into what seems like a typical 90s action flick.
It was probably the best way to include the ship since, at one point, they considered having Dutch and Anytime duke things out right outside the thing.
I still don't think it ruins the reveal at the end as that was more shocking due to the impressive design and creature effects. Though maybe it would have been more effective for the med kit scene. It's just foreshadowing though, a quick shot to let people know that something sc-fi-y is going on before jumping into what seems like a typical 90s action flick.
It was probably the best way to include the ship since, at one point, they considered having Dutch and Anytime duke things out right outside the thing.
Posted by Kradan
- Apr 02, 2020, 06:14:08 AMThis ^^^
Posted by Ronoc
- Apr 02, 2020, 01:09:09 AMYeah, though I think I always assumed he was an alien after seeing it. The tech and his face I guess
Posted by PredBabe
- Mar 31, 2020, 10:03:22 PMI don't think the intro has any real affect on the big reveal at the end, seeing as we get a a few glimpses of the Predator creature beforehand. If anything, it just clues the audience in on the creature being alien, as TC mentioned. He's not just a creature from the Black Lagoon.
Posted by Kradan
- Mar 31, 2020, 06:10:38 PMPersonally, I'd be good without it. It's just several brief shots which doesn't really add much . It would make the reveal more effective, I guess.
Posted by The Old One
- Mar 31, 2020, 04:30:06 PMThe first time I missed the opening scene.
Posted by TC
- Mar 31, 2020, 02:33:21 PMAlso, now that I think about it, without that opening spaceship shot I don't think there's any kind of explanation anywhere in the film as to where the Predator comes from. No one ever refers to it as an alien or speculates about its origin. Am I right?
There's only this:
Anna : When I was little, we found a man. He looked like - like, butchered. The old women in the village crossed themselves, and whispered crazy things, strange things. "El diablo cazador de hombres". Only in the hottest years this happens. And this year, it grows hot. We begin finding our men. We found them sometimes without their skin... and sometimes much, much worst. "El que hace trofeos de los hombres" means "the demon who makes trophies of men".
It seems obvious to us now, but in 1987 maybe John McTiernan thought he owed the audience a definitive answer to that question.
TC
There's only this:
Anna : When I was little, we found a man. He looked like - like, butchered. The old women in the village crossed themselves, and whispered crazy things, strange things. "El diablo cazador de hombres". Only in the hottest years this happens. And this year, it grows hot. We begin finding our men. We found them sometimes without their skin... and sometimes much, much worst. "El que hace trofeos de los hombres" means "the demon who makes trophies of men".
It seems obvious to us now, but in 1987 maybe John McTiernan thought he owed the audience a definitive answer to that question.
TC
Posted by molasar
- Mar 31, 2020, 01:59:22 PMQuote from: Ronoc on Mar 31, 2020, 01:36:44 PM
I remember years later seeing the full movie, and was very surprised to see that they revealed the protagonist in the very first scene!
Even if you did not see its posters or trailers before watching it the first time, they did not reveal anything. You just saw a space ship dumping something on the Earth and it could be anything. A robot, an alien tech, a probe, a mutagen, etc.
Posted by 426Buddy
- Mar 31, 2020, 01:44:59 PMAlways loved that opening shot, it actually disturbed me a little as a kid.
Posted by Ronoc
- Mar 31, 2020, 01:36:44 PMI get all that, but as I say, I saw the movie in total isolation. This was in 1987/88, video rental, when I was 11. I hadn't seen the poster, hadn't seen any trailers, no idea of it's existence. Just popped round a friend's house, and it was starting. So I'm talking about a case like that. Going in blind.
I remember years later seeing the full movie, and was very surprised to see that they revealed the protagonist in the very first scene! I thought it was a mistake to be honest. Like I said it worked for me being as in the dark as much as Dutch.
But of course yeah, people like to know what they're about to watch, at least even just the genre
I remember years later seeing the full movie, and was very surprised to see that they revealed the protagonist in the very first scene! I thought it was a mistake to be honest. Like I said it worked for me being as in the dark as much as Dutch.
But of course yeah, people like to know what they're about to watch, at least even just the genre
Posted by TC
- Mar 31, 2020, 12:36:11 PM@Ronoc
Did you ever see the movie (or read the comic) Cowboys and Aliens? What a great title! It sets up the audience's genre expectations to accept the conventions of both the cowboy film and the sci-fi film. What do you think audience reception would have been if it was just called "Cowboys"? A lot of annoyed patrons, that's what. Because the expectations of those who love westerns but hate sci-fi would have been defied.
But back to Predator: The spaceship flyby tells the audience that this is a sci-fi story, so expect some sci-fi action.
Believe it or not, there are people that love war films but hate sci-fi. I know some of them. To them, sci-fi is cheesy, escapism for adolescent boys who can't deal with real life, whereas war films are real life business for men (even if so-called "real life" is Rambo!). You don't want that type of viewer settling into your movie only to be confronted halfway through by a bug-eyed monster from outer space sporting a ray-gun. As the filmmaker, you'd only be setting your movie up for a 1 star rating.
Not every viewer is going to be as embracing as you are, willing to accept whatever the filmmaker serves up.
True, these things do a lot to "position" an audience for the story (if you'll excuse my marketing-101 speak). The choice of title is also good for this. Alien is a great title. Snakes on a Plane is a great title. Gigli is not.
Trailers and posters do a lot to establish genre expectations for your story, but they are remedial, an adjunct. Most storytellers who take pride in their craft want the actual story and its title (which I consider an important part of the story) to be a standalone work of its own, without all the marketing bumph that goes to with it.
TC
Did you ever see the movie (or read the comic) Cowboys and Aliens? What a great title! It sets up the audience's genre expectations to accept the conventions of both the cowboy film and the sci-fi film. What do you think audience reception would have been if it was just called "Cowboys"? A lot of annoyed patrons, that's what. Because the expectations of those who love westerns but hate sci-fi would have been defied.
But back to Predator: The spaceship flyby tells the audience that this is a sci-fi story, so expect some sci-fi action.
Believe it or not, there are people that love war films but hate sci-fi. I know some of them. To them, sci-fi is cheesy, escapism for adolescent boys who can't deal with real life, whereas war films are real life business for men (even if so-called "real life" is Rambo!). You don't want that type of viewer settling into your movie only to be confronted halfway through by a bug-eyed monster from outer space sporting a ray-gun. As the filmmaker, you'd only be setting your movie up for a 1 star rating.
Not every viewer is going to be as embracing as you are, willing to accept whatever the filmmaker serves up.
Quote from: SiL on Mar 31, 2020, 12:03:02 PM
I mean it's kind of obvious from trailers, pop culture, posters, etc.
True, these things do a lot to "position" an audience for the story (if you'll excuse my marketing-101 speak). The choice of title is also good for this. Alien is a great title. Snakes on a Plane is a great title. Gigli is not.
Trailers and posters do a lot to establish genre expectations for your story, but they are remedial, an adjunct. Most storytellers who take pride in their craft want the actual story and its title (which I consider an important part of the story) to be a standalone work of its own, without all the marketing bumph that goes to with it.
TC
Posted by SiL
- Mar 31, 2020, 12:03:02 PMI mean it's kind of obvious from trailers, pop culture, posters, etc.
Posted by Huggs
- Mar 31, 2020, 12:02:41 PMI don't see any issues with the opening. It's basically the same as the opening for The Thing.
The music cues as the ship appears out of the darkness and then something falls to earth gives the movie an ominous start. It's one of my favorite moments of the film.
The music cues as the ship appears out of the darkness and then something falls to earth gives the movie an ominous start. It's one of my favorite moments of the film.
Posted by Ronoc
- Mar 31, 2020, 09:45:24 AMI definitely didn't think it needed either of those devices. The foreshadowing was a bit heavy when actually showing a spaceship, and as for expectation, I think it worked well when you were as lost as Dutch and co.
Too bad I'll never get the chance to see Predator again without knowing what's going on
Too bad I'll never get the chance to see Predator again without knowing what's going on
Quote from: TC on Mar 31, 2020, 05:01:57 AM
It's there for two reasons:
Foreshadowing:
https://literarydevices.net/foreshadowing/
And genre expectations:
http://www.umontanamediaarts.com/MART101L/genre-and-the-power-of-expectation
Apparently these storytelling devices weren't necessary for your enjoyment. But I bet they worked for most people.
TC
