http://www.empireonline.com/people/ridley-scott/empire-podcast-alien-covenant-spoiler-special-sir-ridley-scott/
Quote from: Ingwar on May 23, 2017, 06:28:58 PM
http://www.empireonline.com/people/ridley-scott/empire-podcast-alien-covenant-spoiler-special-sir-ridley-scott/
Can somebody give a best bits synopsis please? I dont have the heart to listen to Ridley talk shit.
I've only listened to about half an hour so far and it's largely what we've heard before but of interest -
- The Engineers decided to wipe us out because mankind are dicks. Pretty much as simple as that. The Engineers go around seeding worlds, check up on the seeded cultures. If they don't like what they see, they wipe out all non-plant life and start again.
- David kills the Engineers because he doesn't respect them. He has the same contempt for them that he does mankind.
- Ridley re-affirms that the intent is David creates the Aliens. He might use the Engineer black goo to do it but they're his design.
thanks for the bullets, found anything else out after the whole listen?
I've not had chance to finish it off (I'm at work). Will finish it off on the way home and report anything else of interest. I've got a news post about it drafted, will update and post after I've listened to the entire interview.
just started listening..not really a fan of the host ha
Now please, can people accept that David created the Alien? I don't like it either, but it's the truth. Ridley has said it three times now.
Quote from: Evanus on May 24, 2017, 01:49:00 PM
Now please, can people accept that David created the Alien? I don't like it either, but it's the truth. Ridley has said it three times now.
Never.
i don't think Fox would let Alan add something (from His Idea) in the novel that contradict important scene in the movie.
Anything in there about the next movie (potential next movie)?
In the first half hour or so, he just mentioning it being written and I'm pretty sure he said it was a sequel and talked about the new colony. Should do with a re-listen of that bit.
he pretty much states that david creates the alien, but needed the engineer's black goo to do so
i wonder if they're going to have the black goo be something they simply created, and didn't source from an ancient creature. ugh
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on May 24, 2017, 02:06:44 PM
In the first half hour or so, he just mentioning it being written and I'm pretty sure he said it was a sequel and talked about the new colony. Should do with a re-listen of that bit.
This is somewhat reassuring. I never liked the idea of the next one being a "prequel".
I came to accept the fact that David has created the Xenomorphs... but the next movie really has to be a solid one to connect with Alien. The danger of this sequel undoing Aliens is ... present.
So.. Oram was molested as a child. Again and again. That's why he saw the devil. According to Ridley, at least.
not sure i like that idea, but man, i thought billy crudup did such a good job with oram
Oh, good grief.
Quote from: Evanus on May 24, 2017, 03:05:35 PM
So.. Oram was molested as a child. Again and again. That's why he saw the devil. According to Ridley, at least.
Erg... gonna pretend I didn't hear that. Much too heavy for my taste.
Molested? It's just Scott's interpretation. If it's not addressed in the movie then it doesn't count.
Could've been easy enough to drop into a scene between him and Daniels or Karine - Oram alluding to a 'awful childhood' on some church colony, which would put forward why he wants to spare the colonists a hardscrabble life on Origae-6 vs. Paradise. But no, let's just cut character out and leave in the horribly awkward line in the opening scenes with Oram complaining that 'a religious man can't be captain!!'
isn't that the frustrating thing about a lot of the film though? different dialogue, or more dialogue, could have made it so much better.
taking from the novel about finding engineers eggs, being a good example
Interesting that the Engineers felt compelled to come up with such macabre ways to wipe the slate....
do we think ridley feels they created the black goo, or that is originated elsewhere?
Quote from: Evanus on May 24, 2017, 01:49:00 PM
Now please, can people accept that David created the Alien? I don't like it either, but it's the truth. Ridley has said it three times now.
My view is that I want to wait for the "Covenant" Blu-ray extras before I accept that David created the xenomorphs in the derelict as official canon.
- Why? There is still too much contradictory information from Ridley and other sources like the novelization.
- It's anyone's privilege to have a film theory that David created the derelict xenos.
But it's also just as OK to have another film theory that the Engineers created the xenos in the derelict.
* That's two opposing film theories. That's where things are now imo.
- What will determine which is canon according to the film makers, the studio and the wiki sites?
To me it will be the "Covenant" Blu-ray extras.
;)
Quote from: banecat on May 24, 2017, 02:27:04 PM
he pretty much states that david creates the alien, but needed the engineer's black goo to do so
i wonder if they're going to have the black goo be something they simply created, and didn't source from an ancient creature. ugh
David says the Black created many variations of this monster like the Deacon or the Neomorph and the idea is that he is refining these variations. There's not telling what other Lovecraftian monstrosities could come from this stuff. Personally I prefer this to The Engineers having made them. If either way someone had to have done it.
When Ridley says the Aliens in 3 and 4 were all CG...
He really doesn't have much awareness of the franchise outside his own films. :-\
He also confirms what I said last year about the prologue maybe being released as a viral instead.
With that said, I'm personally more inclined to consider this a reboot series now, as I really don't see how they can end up with eggs on LV-426 without doing something truly ridiculous. Canon will never perfectly fit anyway, I'd prefer any Alien movies going forward (after Scott) to completely ignore Scott's prequels.
if you had to take a guess, how do you think it will tie in to lv426? david is the space jockey? ha
Unfortunately, I think that's where he's going. I really hope he doesn't. The whole lure of the Jockey and the Aliens has taken a hit with Prometheus and Covenant, I'm not sure I can stomach David being in the pressure suit.
Quote from: banecat on May 24, 2017, 07:18:11 PM
if you had to take a guess, how do you think it will tie in to lv426? david is the space jockey? ha
Well, no one thought he'd go for an idea this bad in Covenant, I'm sure he'll surprise us again if Fox allows him to.
The recent Life & Death comics hinted that the Juggernauts can time travel. Perhaps that?
Quote from: RidgeTop on May 24, 2017, 07:09:46 PM
With that said, I'm personally more inclined to consider this a reboot series now, as I really don't see how they can end up with eggs on LV-426 without doing something truly ridiculous. Canon will never perfectly fit anyway, I'd prefer any Alien movies going forward (after Scott) to completely ignore Scott's prequels.
That's probably what's going to happen anyway. Sooner or later, someone will eventually realize Neill Blomkamp's
Aliens sequel idea, and Verheiden's "Hiveworld" scenario. And either of those will ignore parts of the franchise that contradict the narrative.
Wendebiest had a diagram of sorts, I should PM him for it.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on May 24, 2017, 06:36:52 PM
When Ridley says the Aliens in 3 and 4 were all CG...
He really doesn't have much awareness of the franchise outside his own films. :-\
He also confirms what I said last year about the prologue maybe being released as a viral instead.
Didn't he create a rule book for the films when he was doing
Covenant?
I'm curious to know if these rules even consider anything past the first film to be a part of his creative agenda as far as the new films go?
Quote from: RidgeTop on May 24, 2017, 07:21:27 PM
Quote from: banecat on May 24, 2017, 07:18:11 PM
if you had to take a guess, how do you think it will tie in to lv426? david is the space jockey? ha
The recent Life & Death comics hinted that the Juggernauts can time travel. Perhaps that?
Ugh, please don't... No time travel! :'(
Quote from: echobbase79 on May 24, 2017, 07:28:21 PM
I'm curious to know if these rules even consider anything past the first film to be a part of his creative agenda as far as the new films go?
Probably not. See my previous post.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on May 24, 2017, 07:20:31 PM
Unfortunately, I think that's where he's going. I really hope he doesn't. The whole lure of the Jockey and the Aliens has taken a hit with Prometheus and Covenant, I'm not sure I can stomach David being in the pressure suit.
how could you see them explaining the size of the space jockey if david does indeed become him?
and then, ugh, time travel? ha, how about petrification instead like he does in the novel with the eggs he found?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on May 24, 2017, 06:36:52 PM
When Ridley says the Aliens in 3 and 4 were all CG...
He really doesn't have much awareness of the franchise outside his own films. :-\
You beat me to it. Hard to believe. He even goes as far to say that they use digital elements in Aliens. Facepalm
This is the same illogical nonsense he came up with during '
Prometheus' (except with less Jesus).
Exactly how were we "killing the planet" two thousand years ago?
And how the f**k would destroying the entire planet's ecosystem in such a catastrophic way be
better?
Humans were no more "killing themselves" than any other species (probably a good deal less so, if anything, since communities of people realised they needed to band together to survive harsh times, like bad weather). I don't know what he means by declaring we couldn't "settle down", either, because we had huge empires existing and most tribes
had to settle down and farm if they wanted to survive.
Really, Scott? If someone's acting immaturely, the logical thing to do is to f**k the planet up beyond all recognition?
That, right there, is a case of species acting both immaturely and irresponsibly.
Whenever he says this stuff, I always think of this guy...
Quote from: Xenomorphine on May 24, 2017, 07:52:25 PM
This is the same illogical nonsense he came up with during 'Prometheus' (except with less Jesus).
Exactly how were we "killing the planet" two thousand years ago?
And how the f**k would destroying the entire planet's ecosystem in such a catastrophic way be better?
Humans were no more "killing themselves" than any other species (probably a good deal less so, if anything, since communities of people realised they needed to band together to survive harsh times, like bad weather). I don't know what he means by declaring we couldn't "settle down", either, because we had huge empires existing and most tribes had to settle down and farm if they wanted to survive.
Really, Scott? If someone's acting immaturely, the logical thing to do is to f**k the planet up beyond all recognition? That, right there, is a case of species acting both immaturely and irresponsibly.
Whenever he says this stuff, I always think of this guy...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7tvauOJMHo
HAHAHA! Yeah, when the next generation of
Alien fan directors come in and make new
Alien sequels
Covenant is gonna get ignored
HARD! XD Dammit, Scott hang it up already!
They all but trash the film after the interview is over. lol
I'm none to pleased with either of those reasons. They're pretty weak.
I'd rather the engineers not care about us, not even know of our existence much like the case seemed to be in Alien. If they had to know about us and we had to keep the religion aspect of it then I'd rather the Engineers viewed us as inferior/not worthy from a religious stand point. Not this "They're killing the planet, they gotta go" nonsense.
I wish Ridley would just stop.
Darn you, Roman Empire! Don't you see you're destroying the planet?!
Somehow...
Apparently...
This is like the US discovering there's some random guy living in New Zealand, judging him to be a psychopath and deciding the only course of action must be to launch the whole of its nuclear arsenal to destroy the entire planet's surface area.
He really expanded upon the alien universe and gave it all a deeper meaning, that's for sure. I like it, feels fresh but in the end it becomes the same "kill or get killed, blow it out the airlock" type of alien movie. Also, Covenant feels very tied to Blade Runner with the whole AI aspect of it.
So how come Predators used eggs exactly the same like the ones created by David, in thousands of years before modern civilizations on Earth? Did David do the time travel ? because i am confused to be honest
The Alien vs. Predator films aren't canon as far as Scott is concerned.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on May 24, 2017, 09:03:52 PM
The Alien vs. Predator films aren't canon as far as Scott is concerned.
As it should be! ;D
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on May 24, 2017, 09:03:52 PM
The Alien vs. Predator films aren't canon as far as Scott is concerned.
'
If Ridley can ignore movies in the series (as bad as they may be) than I can certainly ignore his entries ;D. City Hunter still killed a Xeno after all.
Im getting a bit tired of Scotts extravagant BS theories when he hasnt been able to make a rudimentally coherent film in 15 years.
Lately its accumulating in a way where i actually start to think hes slowly crossing into dementia territory (i mean no offense hes what 80?).
Oh my god. It is soooo sad.....
I.....Can´t.....Listen....To......That....Man......Any......MORE!
Sad, just sad :/
And sorry, but when any of the other stupid twats (the interviewers) say GEIGER one more time, I seriously f**k up their perfect composure!!!!
So, how coherent is Ridley in the interview? :laugh:
Of course David hates the Engineers, one of them decapitated him, so I'm sure he's never forgotten about that since leaving the planet in Prometheus. :)
Quote from: kwisatz on May 24, 2017, 09:17:10 PM
Im getting a bit tired of Scotts extravagant BS theories when he hasnt been able to make a rudimentally coherent film in 15 years.
Lately its accumulating in a way where i actually start to think hes slowly crossing into dementia territory (i mean no offense hes what 80?).
You didn't think the Martian was coherent?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on May 24, 2017, 09:03:52 PM
The Alien vs. Predator films aren't canon as far as Scott is concerned.
no other film after "Alien" is canon either... according to Scott.
Scott honestly sounds like hes losing his bloody mind. either hes avoiding questions by rambling on about shit that has nothing to do with the question, or hes just getting old and honestly actually losing it. to me, that interview was literally drenched with "listen to my stories about my glory days, my adventures and my incoherent answers that deliberately avoid the question im being asked!"
dont get me wrong, I like Ridley Scott... hes an amazing artist and film maker, but i think hes losing it a bit in his old age and really not paying attention to ANYTHING that has been set up canon wise for the past 30 odd years either in film, comics or novels... also hes completely ignoring everything that happened in Prometheus lol
i have a feeling that the next 2 movies are going to be just as cluster f**ked and jumbled as Covenant was! at least Prometheus was exploring some very big ideas and not out right wrecking the lore and canon of the franchise (dont care what anyone says about the Engineers, they were a TOTAL mystery and I prefer Scotts idea MUCH MORE than the giant elephant trunked beings that the Dark Horse Comics lore introduced)
Its unfortunate, cause Aliens was a far superior sequel to Alien, and had a bigger influence then the 1st movie.
Quote from: JokersWarPig on May 24, 2017, 08:40:43 PM
I'm none to pleased with either of those reasons. They're pretty weak.
I'd rather the engineers not care about us, not even know of our existence much like the case seemed to be in Alien. If they had to know about us and we had to keep the religion aspect of it then I'd rather the Engineers viewed us as inferior/not worthy from a religious stand point. Not this "They're killing the planet, they gotta go" nonsense.
I wish Ridley would just stop.
We should start a petition. ;D
I Love this movie. Alien: Covenant had great food for thought. I think many fans don't see the bigger picture in it. The topic Sir Scott covers is extremly difficult to pull off. And putting it into a movie such as Alien requires great creativity. I personally Love the movie. :) It's amazing.
I haven't listened to it all yet but got to the part where she asked him if the Alien Queen was still part of this universe..............the hell was that answer all about? I still don't know, just answer the question Ridders.
I can't help but think we're missing a lot of context here. The engineers sound like a bunch of smug assholes that deserved to get f**ked up.
Quote from: DorkiDori on May 24, 2017, 10:12:37 PM
Scott honestly sounds like hes losing his bloody mind. either hes avoiding questions by rambling on about shit that has nothing to do with the question, or hes just getting old and honestly actually losing it. to me, that interview was literally drenched with "listen to my stories about my glory days, my adventures and my incoherent answers that deliberately avoid the question im being asked!"
I loved Alien Covenant, but as far as the press rounds for the film go, this is painfully spot on.
did anyone else notice him saying it would be better if daniels is killed off but the studio has contractually obligated her to remain alive.
Ridley does an excellent job of dodging questions. Lol
like i said in the book thread, some one needs to fire the editor for cutting out all this important info.
Didnt the same thing happened with Prom? Important stuff left out and explained in the novel or in later interviews.
Quote from: N-Shifter on May 24, 2017, 10:52:59 PM
I haven't listened to it all yet but got to the part where she asked him if the Alien Queen was still part of this universe..............the hell was that answer all about? I still don't know, just answer the question Ridders.
"No, I'm interested in doing my own mythology with my Alien movies."
So No Queen is his mind.
Quote from: DaddyYautja on May 25, 2017, 12:14:16 AM
like i said in the book thread, some one needs to fire the editor for cutting out all this important info.
Didnt the same thing happened with Prom? Important stuff left out and explained in the novel or in later interviews.
But Editor get Ordered from Ridley (who direct both movies.)
Quote from: DaddyYautja on May 25, 2017, 12:14:16 AM
like i said in the book thread, some one needs to fire the editor for cutting out all this important info.
Didnt the same thing happened with Prom? Important stuff left out and explained in the novel or in later interviews.
Yes, I agree. I don't like the choices his editor makes. He basically gutted
Prometheus! The workprint edition is so much better that it needs an official release. I haven't finished the novelization of
Covenant, but from what I've read so far, I'm getting a much better sense of who the characters are than the actual even tried to do.
Quote from: TigerClaw on May 24, 2017, 10:19:26 PM
Its unfortunate, cause Aliens was a far superior sequel to Alien, and had a bigger influence then the 1st movie.
That's a matter of opinion. It's an entirely different type of movie. I prefer the first by far.
Quote from: DaddyYautja on May 25, 2017, 12:14:16 AM
like i said in the book thread, some one needs to fire the editor for cutting out all this important info.
Didnt the same thing happened with Prom? Important stuff left out and explained in the novel or in later interviews.
Nothing gets cut without Scott oking it.
Quote from: whiterabbit on May 24, 2017, 10:59:13 PM
I can't help but think we're missing a lot of context here. The engineers sound like a bunch of smug assholes that deserved to get f**ked up.
Except there isn't any additional context.
It's like the nonsensical answers that parents give children when they are too lazy to answer the question intelligently and understandably.
Quote from: Robopadna on May 24, 2017, 10:07:54 PM
Quote from: kwisatz on May 24, 2017, 09:17:10 PM
Im getting a bit tired of Scotts extravagant BS theories when he hasnt been able to make a rudimentally coherent film in 15 years.
Lately its accumulating in a way where i actually start to think hes slowly crossing into dementia territory (i mean no offense hes what 80?).
You didn't think the Martian was coherent?
Yea only saw that once, i dont know maybe, its a pretty straightforward film (guy survives on mars, guy escapes from Mars its hard to make this very incoherent even for Ridley lol), i doubt the science is very accurate and the dimwit level in NASA is abnormally high (who wouldve thought, maybe its accurate though :D) but i give you that one. The film is super meh by the way (IMO). I forgot American Gangster by the way, i really liked that one i think. Lets say from Gladiator on its 80% meh with moments of genius shining through.
Maybe Ridley just forgets to take his pills from time to time.
Thats when its getting good..
Quote from: kwisatz on May 25, 2017, 01:27:24 AM
Quote from: Robopadna on May 24, 2017, 10:07:54 PM
Quote from: kwisatz on May 24, 2017, 09:17:10 PM
Im getting a bit tired of Scotts extravagant BS theories when he hasnt been able to make a rudimentally coherent film in 15 years.
Lately its accumulating in a way where i actually start to think hes slowly crossing into dementia territory (i mean no offense hes what 80?).
You didn't think the Martian was coherent?
Yea only saw that once, i dont know maybe, its a pretty straightforward film (guy survives on mars, guy escapes from Mars its hard to make this very incoherent even for Ridley lol), i doubt the science is very accurate and the dimwit level in NASA is abnormally high (who wouldve thought, maybe its accurate though :D) but i give you that one. The film is super meh by the way (IMO). I forgot American Gangster by the way, i really liked that one i think. Lets say from Gladiator on its 80% meh with moments of genius shining through.
Maybe Ridley just forgets to take his pills from time to time.
Thats when its getting good..
Are you using the word coherent when you mean good? He's made almost entirely coherent movies.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2017/05/16/ridley-scott-alien-covenant-im-not-letting-it-go-this-time/101733026/
It's pretty clear he wants this franchise to himself, to explore whatever he likes no matter how out of place. Fans and other interested directors be damned.
Quote
You didn't think the Martian was coherent?
It was, and I loved that film, but that was 100% someone else's story. Ridley doesn't seem to do too well when he's creatively involved with the writing process as he was with Prometheus and Covenant. My former film teacher put it best:
"I've always reduced Wes Anderson to "an art director in search of a movie rather than a director" and was told by a friend recently "that's how I've always felt about Ridley Scott" and, despite a few asterisks from a forty year features career: my friend was right."
Prometheus, Robin Hood, Exodus or The Counselor are by no definition coherent films. The Counselor especially is such a filmic mess i really find it hard to find a film more incoherent (in terms of visual storytelling, editoring, character developement, thematic coherence) on this production level.
"And sorry, but when any of the other stupid twats (the interviewers) say GEIGER one more time, I seriously f**k up their perfect composure!!!!" - Giger is an important figure to the franchise, and that's how Giger is pronounced.
Quote from: Abed on May 25, 2017, 01:41:47 AM
"And sorry, but when any of the other stupid twats (the interviewers) say GEIGER one more time, I seriously f**k up their perfect composure!!!!" - Giger is an important figure to the franchise, and that's how Giger is pronounced.
http://www.hrgiger.com/youtube.htm
Haven't had time to listen but sorry... a good film shouldn't require the director to answer questions in interviews... it should be in the damn film itself.
For various reasons, I've long settled on choosing to view the complete onscreen storyline of 'Ripley' as consisting of the ALIEN and ALIENS movies only...and prefer to imagine that the ALIEN 3 and ALIEN RESURRECTION efforts merely represent a couple of 'bad dreams' she endures on her safe hypersleep homewards.
And I've also decided that the only way for the rest of of the 'franchise' to continue to be watchable in any way is to equally distance those entries from the original ALIEN/ALIENS combination, too...whether it be the likes of AvP or PROMETHEUS...and to look on them as mere 'what if?'- type, 'fan-fiction' scenarios using some of the original source elements and characters.
Although I thought it was a disappointing plot device to begin with, I could have accepted the 'Humans made by Superhumans' premise that Ridley chose to tell with his PROMETHEUS movie...but the ongoing storyline was completely messed - up from the start for me, due to his insistance on totally 're-imagining' one of the best scenes in his original classic.
Sir Ridley is an amazing visualist for sure, but I point blank refuse to look on PROMETHEUS and ALIEN COVENANT as any sort of 'official canon' in my own idealised ALIEN mythos,
The plain fact is that the 'Spacejockey' scene was always one of the most unsettling, and mysteriously-'alien' moments of the original movie for me...and to see it's atmospheric 'Giger-esque' quality diluted in the manner that Ridley chose to go down, was completely ill-judged from the start as far as I'm concerned,
Deciding to turn the 'Spacejockey' into a 'spacesuited humanoid' MIGHT have worked...if it wasn't so bleeding obvious that it was MEANT to be the SKELETAL remnants of some 'otherworldly creature' to begin with! I will never be able to reconcile Ridley's PROMETHEUS storyline as anything more than an 'alternate take' on the source material due to this.
And It's not the mere fact that the 'Spacejockey' is described as 'fossilized' that makes the point.,,it;s the fact that Dallas then states "Bones have bent outward, like he exploded from inside" - that's 'BONES' Ridley. And we then see an extreme close-up of what certainly looks like old bones, rather than some sort of 'calcified', occified spacesuit', And to cap things off, the 'skull;s mouth - area has what looks like actual TEETH in the moody close - up of it, moments before it goes to shadow.
It's a freakin' monstrous SKELETON Ridley!!!...pure and simple.
So yeah, I'll get more out of David's misadventures by looking on his whole storyline as being totally unrelated to the ALIEN movie in the first place, and look forward to what this 're-imagining' brings...
But I certainly WON'T be looking on Ridley's latest additions to the 'franchise' as anything more than yet another 'Expanded Universe' kind of 'Fan Fic' version of the 'Xenomorphs'.
:P
Quote from: echobbase79 on May 25, 2017, 12:58:44 AM
Quote from: DaddyYautja on May 25, 2017, 12:14:16 AM
like i said in the book thread, some one needs to fire the editor for cutting out all this important info.
Didnt the same thing happened with Prom? Important stuff left out and explained in the novel or in later interviews.
Yes, I agree. I don't like the choices his editor makes. He basically gutted Prometheus! The workprint edition is so much better that it needs an official release. I haven't finished the novelization of Covenant, but from what I've read so far, I'm getting a much better sense of who the characters are than the actual even tried to do.
Many of these editing choices are being made because Ridely Scott is trying to guarantee fans sequels and to do so he needs to turn in a film NO LONGER than 2 hours so it makes enough money to warrant a sequel. This isn't a kinda sorta idea Im dishing out here either. Ridley Scott went on the record to state this during the editing of Prometheus. If the film has a 100million dollar budget and fans want an R-Rated film, it MUST BE under 2 hours to make back it's money. Nearly all of a film's profit (especially on R-Rated films) is made on its opening weekends. During those weekends, the film needs to have as many showtimes as possible. Even and extra 15 min, can seriously derail the number of showtimes in a single day for a film like this. This is why both 2nd halves in PROMETHEUS and COVENANT are so choppy. Scott did this so you get to see another film.
That said, he should release Director's Cuts then.
Why does he consider Alien 3 a shoot'em up? They have no weapons.
Quote from: CainsSon on May 25, 2017, 03:13:25 AM
Quote from: echobbase79 on May 25, 2017, 12:58:44 AM
Quote from: DaddyYautja on May 25, 2017, 12:14:16 AM
like i said in the book thread, some one needs to fire the editor for cutting out all this important info.
Didnt the same thing happened with Prom? Important stuff left out and explained in the novel or in later interviews.
Yes, I agree. I don't like the choices his editor makes. He basically gutted Prometheus! The workprint edition is so much better that it needs an official release. I haven't finished the novelization of Covenant, but from what I've read so far, I'm getting a much better sense of who the characters are than the actual even tried to do.
Many of these editing choices are being made because Ridely Scott is trying to guarantee fans sequels and to do so he needs to turn in a film NO LONGER than 2 hours so it makes enough money to warrant a sequel. This isn't a kinda sorta idea Im dishing out here either. Ridley Scott went on the record to state this during the editing of Prometheus. If the film has a 100million dollar budget and fans want an R-Rated film, it MUST BE under 2 hours to make back it's money. Nearly all of a film's profit (especially on R-Rated films) is made on its opening weekends. During those weekends, the film needs to have as many showtimes as possible. Even and extra 15 min, can seriously derail the number of showtimes in a single day for a film like this. This is why both 2nd halves in PROMETHEUS and COVENANT are so choppy. Scott did this so you get to see another film.
That said, he should release Director's Cuts then.
Yeah, I know all that. I guess I'm just thinking of story over dollars, but you're right that's not how the system works. It's like slasher films have to always be around 90 minutes long or shorter. You hardly see that type of film go over two hours because they need to get as many showings in as they can.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on May 24, 2017, 07:52:25 PM
This is the same illogical nonsense he came up with during 'Prometheus' (except with less Jesus).
Exactly how were we "killing the planet" two thousand years ago?
And how the f**k would destroying the entire planet's ecosystem in such a catastrophic way be better?
Humans were no more "killing themselves" than any other species (probably a good deal less so, if anything, since communities of people realised they needed to band together to survive harsh times, like bad weather). I don't know what he means by declaring we couldn't "settle down", either, because we had huge empires existing and most tribes had to settle down and farm if they wanted to survive.
Really, Scott? If someone's acting immaturely, the logical thing to do is to f**k the planet up beyond all recognition? That, right there, is a case of species acting both immaturely and irresponsibly.
Whenever he says this stuff, I always think of this guy...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7tvauOJMHo
To be fair, the black good kills off all non-plant life and allows (supposedly) the Engineers the opportunity to start over.
Quote from: CainsSon on May 25, 2017, 03:13:25 AM
Quote from: echobbase79 on May 25, 2017, 12:58:44 AM
Quote from: DaddyYautja on May 25, 2017, 12:14:16 AM
like i said in the book thread, some one needs to fire the editor for cutting out all this important info.
Didnt the same thing happened with Prom? Important stuff left out and explained in the novel or in later interviews.
Yes, I agree. I don't like the choices his editor makes. He basically gutted Prometheus! The workprint edition is so much better that it needs an official release. I haven't finished the novelization of Covenant, but from what I've read so far, I'm getting a much better sense of who the characters are than the actual even tried to do.
Many of these editing choices are being made because Ridely Scott is trying to guarantee fans sequels and to do so he needs to turn in a film NO LONGER than 2 hours so it makes enough money to warrant a sequel. This isn't a kinda sorta idea Im dishing out here either. Ridley Scott went on the record to state this during the editing of Prometheus. If the film has a 100million dollar budget and fans want an R-Rated film, it MUST BE under 2 hours to make back it's money. Nearly all of a film's profit (especially on R-Rated films) is made on its opening weekends. During those weekends, the film needs to have as many showtimes as possible. Even and extra 15 min, can seriously derail the number of showtimes in a single day for a film like this. This is why both 2nd halves in PROMETHEUS and COVENANT are so choppy. Scott did this so you get to see another film.
That said, he should release Director's Cuts then.
Then the question comes up.... why dont they account for this?
Did we reeeeeally need that tired starting act of this whole silly space [add job title here] landing on a planet and being infected?
I listened to the interview. Scott didn't actually answer the question about Shaw, he just mumbled something about returning actors and then told an anecdote about Noomi. What the hell, man?
That about seeing the devil line by Oran really is chilling, never twigged at the time for me.
Any other interesting points?
There's a workprint version of Prometheus? What are the missing scenes?
So Engineers are like aliens from Day the Earth Stood Still out to destroy humans for killing the planet and the black goo is their mutated twisted version of Gort
Quote from: question11 on May 24, 2017, 11:41:16 PM
did anyone else notice him saying it would be better if daniels is killed off but the studio has contractually obligated her to remain alive.
What about Shaw, .... was it always a decision to kill her off-screen ?".... she (Daniels) has to come..back, it is policy of them but I'm not sure that is the right..thing, we kept Sigourney on quite rightly through the whole five show process, and Shaw..could have,..." then he starts speaking of the Dragon Tatoo etc.
According to him, it seems that it was either Shaw or Daniels, but a choice was made.
It is always a pleasure to listen to Ridley, it would be better if his thoughts were perceived better throughout the movie.
He's an excellent question dodger that's for sure :laugh:
Why should he answer all questions though? Some don't need to be answered especially when the story is not fully told yet!
The imagination is a powerful thing. I loved Prometheus and Covenant primarily because they got my imagination going around some big questions
Quote from: Primordial on May 25, 2017, 06:40:09 AM
Quote from: question11 on May 24, 2017, 11:41:16 PM
did anyone else notice him saying it would be better if daniels is killed off but the studio has contractually obligated her to remain alive.
What about Shaw, .... was it always a decision to kill her off-screen ?
".... she (Daniels) has to come..back, it is policy of them but I'm not sure that is the right..thing, we kept Sigourney on quite rightly through the whole five show process, and Shaw..could have,..." then he starts speaking of the Dragon Tatoo etc.
According to him, it seems that it was either Shaw or Daniels, but a choice was made.
It is always a pleasure to listen to Ridley, it would be better if his thoughts were perceived better throughout the movie.
yeah, it's obvious that the studio execs wanted shaw killed off and replaced with the new it girl waterston. personally i can't stand daniels. the poser short haircut. the "just here for the ride" deer in the headlights look. the fact that she married james franco (lol).
i would love for ridley to say f it and just nerf her character.
hopefully the sequel gets caught in development hell and daniels gets the shaw treatment.
i'm sorry i see nothing in daniels worth keeping.
kudos to ridley scott for admitting that noomi rapace is in a different league of acting.
@jdxmoore
I agree all questions must not be answered. I would even say that sometimes, he'd better raise some questions and not answer them (like why did the Engineers change their mind and wanted to kill us ? it is unsatisfying unless you accept that our creators don't give a f*** about animal life by punishing mankind and you put aside the "what happened 2000 years ago for them to take that decision" question)
I had in mind the parallel Ridley was stating about the english colonists going to america and the Covenant colonists. (Unless I missed something, only saw the movie once), I would have prefered more insight on that, for example. Some people including myself rightfully complain about lack of characterisation so more profound dialogues would surely be beneficial.
And yeah, 'Prometheus' definitely triggered my imagination !
@question11
That has the merit to be clear ! I personally liked her, different opinions I guess. I would have kept both, Shaw and Daniels (that doesn't mean they have to survive at all costs, not knowing one character's fate is a good thing)
This is all a real shame. The novel gave some hope that David was not the creator of the Alien so my interest was re-ignited but Ridley is clearly adamant that David is the creator. I'm sorry to say that he is destroying this franchise for me and interest has entirely waned.
@ Lee - I believe that the 'workprint' version is a fan edit, but I haven't seen it myself. However, if you search YouTube for 'Prometheus Workprint Edition' you will come across a trailer for it which features some of the extra scenes in it. Until I get around to doing my own ideal cuts of Prometheus and Alien Covenant, my own current go-to is the excellent 'Prometheus Special Edition' fan edit by Agent 9 (YouTube also has a trailer for that)
Like that version, I'd definately get rid of the official 'Engineer' prologue to keep their reveal a mystery for much later in the movie, and replace it with the younger Weyland TED sequence instead, no matter what. And there's plenty of trimming i'd like to do to Alien Covenant too. :P
As I previously described, I no longer regard Ridley's 'Prometheus' movies as being part of the ALIEN/ALIENS storyline setting whatsover...and it's clear that from his comments that a lot of his ideas make little sense regarding this franchise now. Having said that, I'm still interested to see what he has David doing next, but I'll look on this storyline as being a totally separate, 'alternative universe' reinterpretation to the original Dan 'O Bannon/Ronald Shusett Alien storyline instead.
On first hearing of Ridley's new proposed take on his original 'Spacejockey' as being a 'spacesuit' instead of a huge skeleton, I remember being nervous that it would end up being a human (possibly Shaw) that would end up inside it by the end of 'Prometheus', rather than some large extra-terrestrial being of some sort. I was wrong about that, but I wonder if it will now end up being the man-made David who will pilot that particular 'derelict' by the end of these new movies? We've already seen David put on the 'chair' during 'The Crossing' clip, after all...but on the other hand, he's NOT seen wearing the supposed 'helmet' section in that,whereas it WAS being worn on 'whoever' was in the 'suit' in Ridley's way of looking at his original movie.
Either way, it won't matter to me...as I will keep it separate from the original two movies, and look on the ALIEN/ALIENS 'Spacejockey' and 'Xenomorph' storyline as showing truly 'alien' Lovecraftian nightmares, thankyou very much.
Quote from: rabidranger on May 25, 2017, 03:46:04 AM
To be fair, the black good kills off all non-plant life and allows (supposedly) the Engineers the opportunity to start over.
Still doesn't make any sense.
And why not just use more efficient weapons?
Quote from: Evanus on May 24, 2017, 01:49:00 PM
Now please, can people accept that David created the Alien? I don't like it either, but it's the truth. Ridley has said it three times now.
Whether that's his intent
now, his own films completely contradict this idea.
The sculptures/statues in
Prometheus show VERY, VERY Alien-like creatures in more than one place.
So basically, at the
very least, we have to decide that the Engineers designed the eggs and xenomorphs (both shown in the Prometheus walls), and David just decided "Oh hey wouldn't it be cool if those wall sculptures were real?!?!?"
More realistically, those creatures already existed.
Quote from: Bishop2 on May 25, 2017, 03:26:43 PM
Quote from: Evanus on May 24, 2017, 01:49:00 PM
Now please, can people accept that David created the Alien? I don't like it either, but it's the truth. Ridley has said it three times now.
Whether that's his intent now, his own films completely contradict this idea.
This.
I will not comment on the movie. It's too disappointing and mostly as I expected all along. As for the interview, killing the animal life also dooms the plant life as most plants rely on animals for survival. We have an ecosystem - both plants and animals needed to make it work. Insects are pollinators, worms are soil processors, and so on. If Engineers are creators and destroyers, it would make more sense for them to develop something like Star Trek's genesis device and reformat the whole planet. The black goo should be able to accomplish that. It appears to be some sort of nanotech compound. At that point, it's really only a question of what the nanites are programmed to do. Why make monsters when a planet's population can be simultaneously slaughtered and recast as something else? Then, it's not Alien any more; but maybe it would be best for Alien to finally pass into history. Thanks for the good times and Giger's monster, Ridley. Now, please stop. :(
Quote from: RidgeTop on May 25, 2017, 01:36:07 AM
Quote
You didn't think the Martian was coherent?
It was, and I loved that film, but that was 100% someone else's story. Ridley doesn't seem to do too well when he's creatively involved with the writing process as he was with Prometheus and Covenant.
I remember when Scott was doing the press tour for The Martian, he confessed that he didn't read the book because he didn't want to meddle with the already great script he was given. I was amazed.
That said, Scott did plenty of meddling with Alien and Blade Runner's stories but back then the writers and producers would still say "NO!" to him when he came up with naff ideas. Hampton Fancher in particular gave him quite a hard time even though they loved working together and had great respect for each other. Whereas Lindelof was basically, "yes sir, yes sir, three bags full sir."
Fancher probably described Ridley best:
"His imagination is like a f*ckin virus - it keeps growing and spreading and mutating. Ridley's mind is almost too fast for his own good, in a way it often pulled him ahead of himself, at great speed. Then he'd stumble over it, ideas were pouring out of him so fast." - Hampton Fancher, Blade Runner Screen Writer.
I see these new Alien movies taking place in an alternate universe, cause when you look at the previous films starting with the 1st Alien, all the technology is very retro, and when you look at these two prequels, the tech is way more advance then what you see from the previous films, as far as continuity, I don't see how you can go from highly advance tech, to the outdated tech that you see in Alien.
If he's gonna continue making Alien movies, he might as well remake his own movie, and I can totally see that happening, since it looks like this franchise is getting the JJ Abrams Star Trek treatment of creating an alternate reality.
I take the difference in tech as the type of ships used.
The Nostromo was industrial for ore shipping. The WeylandYutani Corp wanted something durable and easily repairable while also as cheap as possible... so reliable low tech was used.
Weyland's private vessel spared no expense because he was filthy rich and this was his personal yacht.
The other movies can be similarly plotted out tech wise.
Personally, I think Alien, Alien: Isolation, and Aliens form the real trilogy and all the other movies are just Cryo-sleep dreams because it's all more enjoyable that way.
Hey, you're tell the world Ridley just, made this shit up outta thin-air. Really?
So. Alien, the movie that was so aptly named because it introduced the derelict, the xenomorph, and the space jockey. Things that appeared totally foreign to cinema goers. It all had a Lovecraftian feeling to it; an ancient derelict filled with mysteries and monsters that easily end our fellow human beings.It felt like it truly was man encountering the vast unknown and having his ass handed to him.
It was humbling, scary, and fascinating.
Ridley, you are totally stripping away the mystery, the foreignness, and the science; reducing it all to a Christianity morality play that all stems from man's lineage.
So, there's no real aliens. Nothing really foreign. You've turned your original movie title into a lie.
My reply doesn't seem to have posted (possibly due to the Youtube link), so I'll try again.
RidgeTop, respectfully, you'll find that's in reference to the spelling, not the pronunciation (as an art student, I saw the incorrect spelling many, many times). If you look up the fifty minute video 'H R Giger Revealed Documental' on Youtube, you'll hear the man himself pronounce it with an 'ee' rather than an 'eye' within the first few seconds.
Did you mean?:
Shit that should have been explained in the films in the first place.
Sorry, It's not like this was a small, overlooked plot point that just needed some clarification. It pretty much the base of the entire film! 2 films! And was somehow 'forgotten' to be explained in the actual movie?
This smells like it was totally made up on the spot and a total cop-out. >:|
I think there's a big mistake with Prometheus and alien covenant if you have watched all the films especially alien vs predator then in a scene it shows the predators wiping the planet clean of the aliens this was set in the time of the Incas and Egyptian era this was way before the so say time David made the aliens
Quote from: Mal on May 25, 2017, 08:56:45 PM
I think there's a big mistake with Prometheus and alien covenant if you have watched all the films especially alien vs predator then in a scene it shows the predators wiping the planet clean of the aliens this was set in the time of the Incas and Egyptian era this was way before the so say time David made the aliens
The Scott prequels are ignoring the AVP continuity, as they did with Peter Weyland in Prometheus.
My first two attempts to reply haven't posted, so I'll try again.
Respectfully, the website quote is in regards to the spelling, not the pronunciation (in my time as an art student, I saw the incorrect spelling many, many times). You can hear the man himself pronounce it with an 'eee' sound in the opening seconds of this documentary: https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=kK3Jcwr0T2g
My apologies, the video on the website didn't show up for me at first. Turns out we were both sticking up for the same pronunciation (I thought you were pushing for Giger as in eye). Oh, what a day...
Quote from: Mal on May 25, 2017, 08:56:45 PM
I think there's a big mistake with Prometheus and alien covenant if you have watched all the films especially alien vs predator then in a scene it shows the predators wiping the planet clean of the aliens this was set in the time of the Incas and Egyptian era this was way before the so say time David made the aliens
Yeah, there's really no point in trying to makes sense of it by putting the Alien series and AvP series into the same continuity, the AvP movies are in a different universe, an offshoot like a Freddy v Jason movie.
This is really bad. Wow.
Listened through the interview. Scott seemed awfully ambiguous when it came to the subject of the Queen's future inclusion... If that doesn't occur, this new series is going to be looked at as a completely alternative time-line intended to replace '
Alien' in totality.
Also, his voice and rambling strangeness now officially reminds me of an old '
Fast Show' sketch character.
I think Prometheus and Covenant needed to be an other franchise than Alien.
If Scott not wanted to be coherent with things like Space Jockey, Alien Queen than why force it? He could still use Giger's elements but tell a different story.
And thats very disturbing because Blomkamp cant do he's vision because Ridley doing Prometheus sequel what using xenos but not keen on to follow the franchise's rules.
Quote from: RidgeTop on May 25, 2017, 09:00:06 PM
Quote from: Mal on May 25, 2017, 08:56:45 PM
I think there's a big mistake with Prometheus and alien covenant if you have watched all the films especially alien vs predator then in a scene it shows the predators wiping the planet clean of the aliens this was set in the time of the Incas and Egyptian era this was way before the so say time David made the aliens
The Scott prequels are ignoring the AVP continuity, as they did with Peter Weyland in Prometheus.
Peter Weyland can still be reconciled easily... it's no tougher than reconciling Charles Bishop Weyland with the supposedly human Bishop creator (Michael) at the end of A3.
It isn't until this film that the continuities no longer match. Basically, you could have all of the films in A/P/AVP line up fine until
Covenant came along.
Hell, I suppose they could even introduce something later that would make it possible to re-align them - but that's not something I expect, given that we know Scott has no reason/concern with doing so. It would basically be a happy accident if it occurred.
Quote from: N-Shifter on May 25, 2017, 09:45:48 PM
Quote from: Mal on May 25, 2017, 08:56:45 PM
I think there's a big mistake with Prometheus and alien covenant if you have watched all the films especially alien vs predator then in a scene it shows the predators wiping the planet clean of the aliens this was set in the time of the Incas and Egyptian era this was way before the so say time David made the aliens
Yeah, there's really no point in trying to makes sense of it by putting the Alien series and AvP series into the same continuity, the AvP movies are in a different universe, an offshoot like a Freddy v Jason movie.
Unless I'm missing something, isn't the only thing that brought Aliens and Predator together in the first place was the Dark Horse comics series and the trophy room Alien skull that Danny Glover sees at the end of P2? It's not like the two universes were combined prior to that. I actually own two of the AvP comic mini-series.
Anyhow, I could care less how Predator plays into the Aliens timeline as I feel that was mostly just a money grab for two franchises that didn't have a path forward at the time.
Quote from: Nunzilla on May 26, 2017, 03:44:16 PM
Quote from: N-Shifter on May 25, 2017, 09:45:48 PM
Quote from: Mal on May 25, 2017, 08:56:45 PM
I think there's a big mistake with Prometheus and alien covenant if you have watched all the films especially alien vs predator then in a scene it shows the predators wiping the planet clean of the aliens this was set in the time of the Incas and Egyptian era this was way before the so say time David made the aliens
Yeah, there's really no point in trying to makes sense of it by putting the Alien series and AvP series into the same continuity, the AvP movies are in a different universe, an offshoot like a Freddy v Jason movie.
Unless I'm missing something, isn't the only thing that brought Aliens and Predator together in the first place was the Dark Horse comics series and the trophy room Alien skull that Danny Glover sees at the end of P2? It's not like the two universes were combined prior to that. I actually own two of the AvP comic mini-series.
Anyhow, I could care less how Predator plays into the Aliens timeline as I feel that was mostly just a money grab for two franchises that didn't have a path forward at the time.
AvP very big deal in 90's After Predator 2 and Original AvP Comics.
Even Aliens toyline (Hive Wars) has Predator model.
Quote from: gantarat on May 26, 2017, 04:08:16 PM
AvP very big deal in 90's After Predator 2 and Original AvP Comics.
Even Aliens toyline (Hive Wars) has Predator model.
Thanks, I do understand that. I'm in my mid 40s so I've seen the movies and read the comics when they released. My point was that the AvP connection wasn't an original part of the Alien storyline, so I don't see harm with Ridley not considering that canon. I do realize many fans like the connection.
AVP and AVPR aren't canon, they have nothing to do with the Predator Movies or the Alien Saga, the only thing they share is that they both are 20th Century Fox property's and where put into a comic crossover series by Dark Horse. From what I can tell Ridley Scott considers this his canon series: Prometheus, Covenant, Awakening, Paradise, Alien. (maybe Aliens too but probably not)
Quote from: WABOR on May 27, 2017, 01:59:33 AM
AVP and AVPR aren't canon, they have nothing to do with the Predator Movies or the Alien Saga, the only thing they share is that they both are 20th Century Fox property's and where put into a comic crossover series by Dark Horse. From what I can tell Ridley Scott considers this his canon series: Prometheus, Covenant, Awakening, Paradise, Alien. (maybe Aliens too but probably not)
If we continue down this road, they're going to start being seen as having just as much validity as this new series of prequel films.
At this point we are rapidly heading into X-Men Movie discontinuity and NO ONE, regardless of how they feel about this film or that, should be excited about that. Scott is mucking it up and there is no one that gives two craps about the rest of the films there to stop him.
Bringing the toy line into this... really?
If that's going to be the case, I say let Scott do what he wants, clearly peoples minds have been addled if this what some fans of both series have resorted to. However, Scott has said NOTHING about getting rid of the Queen and you all appear to be getting in a tizz over little but assumptions (what a surprise). Have people not learned yet that the life cycle of these creatures is entirely mutable. The eggs and the face huggers in the Prometheus mural show they've been around for thousands of years, David is just playing with someone else's chemistry set.
Hasn't it been revealed that the Dean Forster novelisation of Covenant that there was already an egg on Paradise? All his novels seems to be based on early screenplays of the film, who knows what's been cut out so far. One of the more followed podcasters said something about this, though I can't remember which one, the Mr H fellow? In fact that's why I checked this site to see if you've published anything about it yourselves.
Though wow, Scott took a few pot shots, although considering Cameron revealed his hypocritical bitching earlier in the year he had it coming.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on May 27, 2017, 06:07:17 PM
Quote from: WABOR on May 27, 2017, 01:59:33 AM
AVP and AVPR aren't canon, they have nothing to do with the Predator Movies or the Alien Saga, the only thing they share is that they both are 20th Century Fox property's and where put into a comic crossover series by Dark Horse. From what I can tell Ridley Scott considers this his canon series: Prometheus, Covenant, Awakening, Paradise, Alien. (maybe Aliens too but probably not)
If we continue down this road, they're going to start being seen as having just as much validity as this new series of prequel films.
Which is to say, either no validity whatsoever or all-inclusive equal validity. I like the bigger universe. I like the AVP idea. I don't like the big bald human engineers. It's too lazy, too Star Trek and too poorly executed in the movies. I disagree with Dark Horse's stumpy-legged, bipedal elephantine engineers solution. It assumes the jockey's whole body was in the chair. I think that poor fellow was grown into the chair and couldn't move if he had to. But at least stumpy legs was an attempt based on what we saw in the original. I'm not in love with Fire & Stone, but at least it's bigger universe. I guess there was some push to have a unified canon eu, but it looks like that's going to end up in the tip. It appears all the Alien, Aliens, AVP EU is going to be equivalent of Star Wars legends. It includes good stuff but it doesn't count to canon.
Also, FWIW, Xenomorphine, I tend to agree with your posts and opinions. You've frequently saved me the need to type. Ridgetop, too.
I can retire safely in this knowledge. 8)