What's this? Another author touching base with us here at AvPGalaxy? Sure is. Here's your chance to pitch you're questions to the legendary Steve Perry. Yautja fans, get the lowdown on why something was done the way it was. Wanna know how to go about adapting a comic, ask here.
Just remember, be civil and respectful.
I'm glad you could take some time to answer some questions. First off congratulations for your work with the novelizations.
My question is: How arose the idea of create a language for the Predators in your novel "Alien versus Predator: Prey", of whom was the idea? and in which language was based?
Beforehand Thanks for answer this question.
Quote from: Rhadamanthys on May 06, 2007, 10:12:24 PM
I'm glad you could take some time to answer some questions. First off congratulations for your work with the novelizations.
My question is: How arose the idea of create a language for the Predators in your novel "Alien versus Predator: Prey", of whom was the idea? and in which language was based?
Beforehand Thanks for answer this question.
Well, my daughter and I wanted a language that had a crisp and somewhat gutteral, harsh sound to it, more like German than say, Italian, so the terms we made up for the Predators were based on how they sounded when spoken aloud. No specific language, but a kind of tone, not necessarily limited to any one.
(If you look at some of the short curse words, you can see that they have a kind of anglo-saxon ring to them ...)
I think we both devised these, more her than me, but it's been thirteen or fourteen years since we wrote the novel, so I couldn't tell you who came up with what, exactly.
The yautja were obviously a martial culture, and we wanted their speech and thought to reflect this.
Steve
Question many have pondered - Just how the heck do you pronounce yautja anyway?
Quote from: steveperry on May 06, 2007, 10:44:30 PM
Quote from: Rhadamanthys on May 06, 2007, 10:12:24 PM
I'm glad you could take some time to answer some questions. First off congratulations for your work with the novelizations.
My question is: How arose the idea of create a language for the Predators in your novel "Alien versus Predator: Prey", of whom was the idea? and in which language was based?
Beforehand Thanks for answer this question.
Well, my daughter and I wanted a language that had a crisp and somewhat gutteral, harsh sound to it, more like German than say, Italian, so the terms we made up for the Predators were based on how they sounded when spoken aloud. No specific language, but a kind of tone, not necessarily limited to any one.
(If you look at some of the short curse words, you can see that they have a kind of anglo-saxon ring to them ...)
I think we both devised these, more her than me, but it's been thirteen or fourteen years since we wrote the novel, so I couldn't tell you who came up with what, exactly.
The yautja were obviously a martial culture, and we wanted their speech and thought to reflect this.
Steve
Thank you very much Mr. Perry. I have another doubt that i hope you can respond.
Question:
It has contemplated in the future, for the films or novels, create the complete language for the Predators?. I would like to be able to use the language in the daily life, more in the forums of the thematic one.Again Mr. Perry thanks for take the time to answered this questions.
N'dhi-ja Mei-hswei :) ;) <----- Yautja Lenguaje :D
Star Trek has too much to answer for. ::)
Hey there Mr. Perry, big fan of your work here and I must say that you are what has driven me to write fanfiction inspired by your AvP books. Ummm.... my question:
We know that the Jehdin fighting style which was used by the Yautja in your AvP Books, was your martial arts experience in Silat a major inspiration?
-Rakai'Thwei
I think SiL's answer needs answering first, i always pronounced it Yourt-jah, i think, spelling how you think something sounds is weird 0__o
Hmm, I pronounce as Yaut-Ya or even Yat-Ya.
SEE! This is exactly why we need it answered!
I always pronounced it Yaut Ah. Like the j was silent.
I have no idea why.
Yaut jaaaaaa! sounds like something arnie would say.
GET TO DA YAUTJAAAA!!
I dunno why, but i've always pronounced the J =/
There really is no reason for me to assume the j is silent, so your probably right in your hypothesis.
Quote from: SiL on May 06, 2007, 10:53:22 PM
Question many have pondered - Just how the heck do you pronounce yautja anyway?
"Ya-oot-chah," with the accent on the second syllable, and that "ch" almost a "j" sound.
[/quote]
Thank you very much Mr. Perry. I have another doubt that i hope you can respond.
Question: It has contemplated in the future, for the films or novels, create the complete language for the Predators?. I would like to be able to use the language in the daily life, more in the forums of the thematic one.
Again Mr. Perry thanks for take the time to answered this questions.
N'dhi-ja Mei-hswei :) ;) <----- Yautja Lenguaje :D
Not a task I'd want to tackle. We did enough to give readers a flavor, but like Klingon, it would take a lot of work to build a working vocabulary. Plus the pronounciation if you aren't a native speaker would be hard.
[/quote]
Quote from: RakaiThwei on May 07, 2007, 12:58:02 AM
Hey there Mr. Perry, big fan of your work here and I must say that you are what has driven me to write fanfiction inspired by your AvP books. Ummm.... my question:
We know that the Jehdin fighting style which was used by the Yautja in your AvP Books, was your martial arts experience in Silat a major inspiration?
-Rakai'Thwei
It would be now, but at the time we did this one, I hadn't gotten into silat yet. At that point, I did a mish-mash of a bunch of arts I'd studied -- Okinawa-te, Chan-gen kung fu, aikido, kendo, kajukenbo, tai chi, like that.
Thanks for the answers Steve.
*goes off bragging that my pronounciation was closest-ish* ^__^
Thank you for answering my question Mr. Perry-- I also have another one which has been on my mind but wasn't really sure if it was plausible to ask this.
Concerning that there is now a so called "sister" race to the Yautja, known as the Hish, and that John Shirely was planning to intergrate the two races together but having reproductive differences (i.e. the Hish being hermaphrodite, and the Yautja having two genders like humans as you and Stephani mentioned in AvP: Prey), would you say that there are two different races of Predators due to evolutionary differences or would the Hish and Yautja mythos be totally set in different universes?
-Rakai'Thwei
In AvP Prey the colonists believed that their encounter with the Predators was the first contact with intelligent aliens but in Forever Midnight there were lots of intelligent alien races known. In Forever Midnight there's also an organisation called the United Nations Interstellar Settlement Corps instead of the USCM. So even if the Yautja are like smooth-headed Klingons, it would take a lot of complicated explanations to show that they are in the same universe.
Let's keep Hish related stuff to a minimum. Mr Perry doesn't know that much about them.
Hello Mr Perry,
In your Books you writing a only Alien Drone can transforming to a Queen,is that a fact or Only a Theorie from the Yautja and Earth Scientists.
and is the Ripley Android in Female War from the same Typ just like Bishop 2 in ALIEN³?
Yeah, I confess I don't know any more about Shirley's new aliens than you do, I haven't talked to him in a while.
And in any universe that gets big, there are always continuity problems. Long-running arguments in Star Trek or Star Wars often boil down to what is canon -- "canon" meaning here what is considered absolutely genuine.
Some writers do stuff that doesn't quite fit, and mostly it gets ignored, everybody pretends it didn't happen. (In Star Wars, the early Marvel comics, there is a character who is named, I believe, Jaxx, who is essential a giant green bunny rabbit. Nobody likes to talk about him ...
I always assumed Ripley was like Bishop in her re-incarnation, probably a somewhat improved model. That she was gave her something to contend against, because at that point, she didn't like androids. It wasn until the end of A2 that she changed her mind about that.
My daughter goes by her middle name these days, by the way -- Danelle (pronounced "Dan-yell, because there is a ~ over the "n ...")
Quote from: Dachande2311 on May 08, 2007, 12:59:14 AM
Thanks for the answers Steve.
*goes off bragging that my pronounciation was closest-ish* ^__^
Long as I am here, Dachande is pronounced "Dah-shaun-day ..." no accent on any particular syllable.
Thank you for answering my questions, Mr. Perry! I think thats the last of them for now.
-Rakai'Thwei
Quote from: steveperry on May 08, 2007, 05:15:34 PM
Quote from: Dachande2311 on May 08, 2007, 12:59:14 AM
Thanks for the answers Steve.
*goes off bragging that my pronounciation was closest-ish* ^__^
Long as I am here, Dachande is pronounced "Dah-shaun-day ..." no accent on any particular syllable.
I actually got that one right.
I don't have a question, but I didn't want to pass up an opportunity...
Steve, I just wanted to say that there hasn't been a novel by you, or Danelle (or any co-authored projects) that I have not enjoyed wholeheartedly.
So thank you for the great work.
And hey, thanks for "Oh, Sherrie" too. ;)
Don't forget to give the Aliens some lovin in a new novel as well.
No question. Just quite liked Shadows Of The Empire. :)
I have a question, sort of. Actually, if it is alright with the two of you, this one is more for Stephanie if she feels like answering.
In AVP: Hunter's Planet, Machiko encounters and then eventually battles the Predator, Shorty.
But in Stephani's AVP: War, written after Hunter's Planet but taking place before it in the time line, she fights and kills Shorty (I think).
My question is what brought on this continuity diversion, was it intentional, accidental, and if the former, why?
I hope this isn't a tired question people have already brought up (I ran a quick search but might have missed something) and I'm sorry if it is. Either way, thank you for your time.
Hunters Planet and War...well, it's either one or the other. Personally I'd tke War because I hated Hunters Planet.
Before this latest batch of Alien/Predator novels released by DH press, Hunters Planet was the only book that didn't have a comic inspiration.
War was based on the comics, Hunters Planet was not. Its hunters planet that is in error, not AvP war.
Hunter's Planet isn't in error. It just came first.
No, actually the comic AvP war came first. Hunters Planet shat all over it, and then Mrs. Perry novelized War.
ooh - I thought of a question.
Why were the dates in the Earth Hive etc. books a century out? I seem to recall dates in the 21st century, rather than the 22nd when the films take place.
Quote from: Kimarhi on May 10, 2007, 11:54:04 PM
No, actually the comic AvP war came first. Hunters Planet shat all over it, and then Mrs. Perry novelized War.
Thanks again for covering that one and sparing the Perrys from wasted time. Question withdrawn ^_^
After reading the novel AvP: Prey, I noticed a theme throughout the story - that being the dominance of females in just about every species in which gender is brought up. More than evident in the Yautja (thanks to Dachande's comments regarding females and the odds of a fully armed male beating one) and the Aliens, it also appears in both the human characters and the armored fire walkers (though this one is only arguably a question of dominance, as the only observation is that the female is simply larger than her mate - no specification of whether it is due to age difference or that that's the way it is*).
Througout the entire novel, it is only female characters (with one true exception) that truly take positions of leadership - especially once conflict with the Aliens and the Yautja heads into full swing. They display greater competence and even establish their positions aggressively in contrast with male counterparts, whom instead appear foolish and cowardly. Although perhaps overlooked at first, I became curious once Dachande seemed to solidify this when he comments that females are always more intelligent than males*. What also raised my curiosity was what occured with Miriam. She was awaiting her husband to teach her how to use certain vehicles, and this reliance on her husband's skill ultimately worsens the situation she and Machiko are in deeply. As if indicating that any sort of reliance on a male results in disaster.
*It was comments of this nature, and certain specific events in the novel that truly aroused my curiosity regarding this. This is why I refer to the armored fire walker when perhaps the differences could be due to other reasons.
Did you and your daughter write out the characters like this purposely? Or is it just a coincidence? If was done on purpose was it to illustrate what you and your daughter felt the future of the human race would be? Or perhaps even that gender roles of this sort would be far more effecient?
Also, some questions regarding the Alien species - just how dangerous are the Aliens of your novel in comparison to other species in the AvP universe? Are the Aliens extremely lethal monsters or are they just simply any one of other plenty and potentially dangerous species? And just how important are they to the Yautja culture? Are they only vital for the Blooding ritual, or do they still have some use for Blooded Yautja? Are the Aliens in this novel the same breed present in comics and other novels, as in, do they have Praetorians, do they respond to the Alien Mother, etc.?
Thank you for your time, Mr. Perry.
I expect that in any kind of viable future, women will be equal in most ways to men. Probably men will still be physically stronger mostly -- though not always -- but since women do have better manual dexterity, and tend to be as smart as, or smarter than men, the idea of putting a lot of wimpy women in my books seems silly.
The prince rescuing the princess is fine, but now and again, the princess needs to save the prince's butt.
Since I never considered my daughter inferior to my son, or girls in general inferior to boys, that's what my children were raised with, so it would stand to reason my daughter would feel something along these lines.
As to how dangerous the Aliens are, you can see that they are physically dangerous, but -- save for the Queen -- not very bright. Somewhere along the way I got the idea they were probably not as smart as the average German Shepherd Dog (I know some people who probably aren't that smart), so they are less dangerous by far than the Predators. The guy with the gun and the brain is the nastier enemy, and since the Predators use the Aliens as training tools (and war toys), it's pretty obvious to me who is more dangerous.
Steve
They knew how to cut the power. I don't know many German Shepherds which can cut the power to an installation.
The lack of intelligence thing is typically based soley on what a person wants to see in the film.
The Alien positioning itself inbetween Parker and Lambert, escaping to the shuttle, cutting the power, waiting for the most oppurtune time to strike, using the elevator (regardless of the elevator returning to top level on its own, the queen still had to grasp the situation of what the elevator would do if she entered it) going for leaders/pilots first...........are all deliberate acts, or coincidence.
To me they were deliberate, and I always liked to think there was something of learning intelligence there, whether or not the base was intelligent or not, it could learn from its mistakes. Of course you can't fault people for seeing it the other way either. Also take into account the authors of that time didn't have Alien Res as a reference point. There was no genetic memory at that time to say that the Aliens would know how to do this or that from past experiences.
Quoteand since the Predators use the Aliens as training tools (and war toys),
Which is a concept that always irritated the hell out of me. It weakens the Aliens in the extreme. It reduces one of most iconic movie monsters to the level of game animals. :P
QuoteThey knew how to cut the power. I don't know many German Shepherds which can cut the power to an installation.
And 12 module too.
Twelve module was bummed by the bad landing. It subsequent re-failure I'd put down to it being improperly fixed the first time. Then again, Parker did say 'When we fix something it stays fixed' ...
Yeah, the concept of them just being toys annoys the everloving shit out of me. It's so demeaning.
No offense.
Ever been to a dog agility or rally and obedience show?
Go to one, then come back and tell me you don't think dogs can run with the aliens. They do things I can't do. And Lassie used to come home and report on Timmy falling into the well all the time ...
I'm being facetious, of course, but if you think the Hard Meat are smarter than the Yautja, you didn't see the same movies, nor read the same graphic novels and books as I. The Queen, yeah. The drones do what she tells them. If they cut the power, it's because the Queen sent them to do it.
I didn't come up with the notion that the aliens are war toys, but it makes perfect sense to me that they were artificially-developed as bioweapons by *some*body. Why would a naturally-evolved creature need acid blood, save as a form of protection from something nastier that was apt to eat it?
What else in the universe have we seen that is nasty enough to eat Aliens?
That the Predators used the Aliens as training devices runs through the series. It is what it is, no help for that. I don't see it as demeaning at all.
It still boils down to authors intent. Stradley came up with the notion that the Aliens were far weaker and less equipped to handle the predators than vice versa. He carried the idea over to AvP War. Claremont would do practically the same thing in Dots (the aliens being so insignificant that they warranted one issue sans queen). However, Edington in AvP Eternal (sorry if this is mispelled) and Paul Anderson in the AvP movie seemed to have a different take on the Aliens and made them far more lethal.
I think part of the problem is Aliens being the most well liked movie in the series, takes precedance of what is shown in the other three films. And even Aliens isn't quite as bad as people make it out to be with the aliens. Only thirty something deaths are shown (of course we can assume a few more died than is shown) dying on screen, out of the hundred and fifty something still alive. Judging by the continous high motion tracker readings throughout the movies (including after the ops battle), I don't think the marines put quite as much of a dent in their population as we thought they did.
To me though, AvP and Aliens have always been different kind of beast. The pred series is super macho with guys packing around miniguns gunning down trees in the rainforest, and handheald thermonuclear devices, while the Aliens series (no doubt it has its out there parts) felt more grounded in reality, with much more serious themes and actions (at least until ARes).
So when you cross the two, your sacrificing something that made each series what it is today. You'll never have a perfect avp, because without tweaking one or two things, they aren't compatible. Of course, my only complaint is that more was sacrificed from both sides to make it more "even".
Anyways. The Perry's and most other writers (aside from the new DH press novels and Hunters Planet) are just continuing the stories already told in comic format. For Aliens fans, the root of the problem would stem from the comics, and later the games (which are just as bad pro pred as the majority of the comics are).
I never said the Aliens were smarter than Predators - Obviously they're not. But I don't think they're as run-into-the-wall-repeatedly stupid as everyone would have us believe.
Why would a naturally evolving creature need acid for blood? Easy. Reaally nasty enemy. Probably a giant bug like in Starship Troopers (I can see it now, bugs vs bugs - Whoever Wins, The Exterminators Are Happy). We've never seen an hombre tough enough for the Alien to need it yet, a given; but then, we've never seen their homeworld. They've always been displaced, in the movies, comics, novels, and games.
Personally I go mor along the lines of a naturally occurring creature modified, but the recent Alien designs kind'a nullify that with their fleshier look.
Go back to the beginning. The first Aliens movie was essentially a haunted-house-in-space. It only worked because of what we in the biz call an idiot-plot -- that is, everybody in the movie has to be an idiot. This is right out of those old Universal monster films from the late thirties and early forties in which people do really stupid stuff and the monster gets 'em. And it serves them right.
If you were on that space-truck and there was a nine-foot-tall-monster eating the crew, would *you* go to the bathroom by yourself? Crawl into an air duct hunting it? You would? Then you deserve to die, 'cause them ain't survival characteristics where I come from. I needed to go pee, we would *all* go pee. Nobody leaves the pack until the thing is for sure dead. We'd all sit with our backs to the wall armed to the teeth and if anything moved, we'd barbecue it. It wanted one of us, it would have to take us all.
Anybody here disagree?
There was no backstory to the Aliens. There were the eggs, the dead alien transporting them, then the face-huggers and finally the drone. No more backstory was needed. The alien was designed soley for its look, not its function, and it showed.
Nowhere in that movie did the critter evidence any IQ higher than a dog.
The second movie, which was essentially a Heinlein bug-hunt, the Queen showed intelligence, but I didn't see any from the drones. Smart animals don't throw themselves at armed men in waves, they come up with a better way than dying en masse.
Only place you are sure the Queen is thinking is when she is looking at the elevator after Ripley. So give it to the Queen, but the drones? Never saw 'em do anything a trained bear couldn't do.
A3 and A4? I'd just wish them into the cornfield, because neither one of them worked for me on any level.
The first Predator movie didn't establish any backstory, either.
So it was up to the writers of the graphic novels and the books to come up with something, because you need more to fill out a novel than you do a movie.
So you have Aliens, who, save for the Queens, are ot-nay ooh-tay ight-bray. Nasty critters, but dangerous in the way that tigers are dangerous, no more.
Then you have the Predators, a species farther along the path than humans, given that when we first see them, they have FTL travel and better sidearms, and who could, if they found it, nuke the Alien planet from space without the Aliens even knowing about it -- if there was an Alien homeworld and they weren't genetically-enhanced lab rats.
So the who-wins argument is moot. Yeah, a man going barehanded against a Kodiak bear is in deep dung; give him a high-powered rifle or even a handgun, the bear is toast.
You gotta go with the toolmaker. Sooner or later, they will rule.
While folks might have liked to see the Aliens with a little more on the intellectual ball, they never had anything, in the movies or the books. They might not be run-into-the-wall stupid, but they can't run with humans or Predators. It just isn't there.
That's kind'a silly, discounting Alien3 and Alien Resurrection cos you don't like them. AR showed that they knew how to set traps and learn simple cause and effect situations - Push button, pain - which is hardly against what we've seen becuase, as you said, we really haven't seen anything. We don't know just how smart they really are. Which is part of why they're scary.
Rushing the guns makes sense when you figure in that the only enemy the Aliens had ever known were barely-armed civilians with some handguns and seismic survery charges. Charging en masse worked there because A) You'd scare the crap out of your opponent and B) They're only lightly armed. You might loose one or two, but there are so many of you that they're just not going to be effective.
But sentry guns don't get scared, and they're far better armed than the colonists. The Aliens figured this out (maybe took a little too long, but oh well) and devised another plan of attack that'd be more effective - Sneaking.
And they also cut the power.
People say Aliens are like ants, and thus dumb, but ants aren't dumb. Leaf-cutter ants cultivate a particular plant which they eat. Many ant species invade and take over other hives, turning them into slaves. They farm aphids and can just generally do all kinds of neat things which aren't as stupid and mindless as the majority believe.
If we're going to bring the expanded universe into the equation, let's look at Aliens: Labyrinth (Which your daughter did a fine job on when it came to the novel. Favourite of the lot.). True, they may not be able to run with the people, but we see them cultivating a cure for a disease and performing various experiments in an attempt to save themselves. They keep their prey fed and resort first to interspecies intercourse - Of a more literal kind than the facehugger - to birth a new kind of baby Alien, then ultimately attempt to make Church mate with his mother so they have more hosts to play around with.
Dogs are smart. I own a dog, and dumb as he may be, he can do some pretty cool things. And who doesn't love Inspector Rex? But I imagine the reasoning behind doing what we saw the Aliens do in Labyrinth is quite a fair bit above what they're capable of. Maybe it's the opposable thumbs.
Also, Aliens don't have as big a crutch on their Queen as it's made out either. The Queen told them to back off in Aliens and called them to her in AvP, but for the rest of the movie they seem to be operating on their own free will. The Aliens in AvP didn't even seem to know where she was until she audibly called out, so they can't have that strong a link. As soon as they're out of hearing range I'd say they're on their own.
If we're going to compare Aliens to animals, I'd compare them to an octopus, or if we were ever feeling really generous, maybe a dolphin. Nowhere near a person, or a Predator, but smart enough to be a fearsome enemy and not act like a mental retard like most of the expanded universe presents them as.
I also don't think the sentry gun scene is really that good of an indicator of what the Alien intelligence is either.
They'd have free run of the tunnels for two weeks before the rines showed up. I don't think anybody would think rounding a corner of their work, or apartments and all of a sudden getting blown away by a sentry gun. A human could make that mistake. Aliens pissed because you just rattled the hive would be bottleknecked there.
Rushing has been a tactic not just used by Aliens. WWI, and Vietnam the tactic was used and you didn't always have a gun when you did it.
I always likened them to Spielberg (or Crichtons) raptors.
I'll start a new thread to discuss it somewheres else.
See? Even us smart oomans rush ;)
Its a matter of principle, nothing personal.
I just don't see eye to eye with Steve on this matter, I'm not really trying to attack Mr. Perry's work. He's enjoyed success writing, I haven't. He's got the accolades. The place has just been dead lately and any discussion is better than no discussion.
Same here. I'm not attacking anyone, merely presenting an opposing viewpoint on the matter.
QuoteAnybody here disagree?
Well yeah. At it's core it's an idiot plot until you actually scratch the surface. Brett wandered off on his own to get the cat because he had no reason to suspect there was a "nine-foot-tall-monster" on board and neither did the audience.
Dallas going into the duct was out of necessity more than anything else - what other choice did they have? Can't shoot it - have to get it off the ship somehow, so herd it out of the airducts into the main airlock.
QuoteSmart animals don't throw themselves at armed men in waves, they come up with a better way than dying en masse.
Which
they did. Dietrich, Wierzbowski, Apone, Drake - none of them had Aliens rush at them. then with the sentry guns, the Aliens didn't know the ones in the tunnel were there, then they ran dry in a matter of seconds. So they try the same tactic on level 2. Didn't quite work out so they found another way in, cutting the power in the process, attacking through the ceiling and floor and then cutting off Vasquez and Gorman.
Besides there's no actual proof they are "dying en masse". The film doesn't show them throwing themselves at the guns. The only time we get more than a glimpse we see an Alien running from one piece of cover to another. Drawing fire to run the guns dry?
Even after the sentry guns, the attack on ops and Gorman's grenade, look at the tracker signal when Hicks is trying to get to Hicks on the sublevel. Over 30 signals and it's just the tip of the iceberg.
People don't generally take on Aliens. They do they're best to put as much distance between them as possible. Ripley is forced to take on the Queen in Aliens.
When Arnie and Danny Glover took on Predators - who won?
Of course Predators are more advanced - goes without saying. But to say Aliens are about as smart as dogs, boggles the mind frankly.
QuoteI didn't come up with the notion that the aliens are war toys, but it makes perfect sense to me that they were artificially-developed as bioweapons by *some*body.
Yeah it does make some sense. But it's so cliched and boring. Much more sinister to have these things evolve naturally. Maybe they did have natural predators (with a little p) at one point, but they outlasted them. Even Dan O'Bannon's original take that they evolve into intelligent cultured beings after satisfying their adolescent bloodlust is vastly more interesting, than tired old bio-engineered weapons story.
QuoteThat the Predators used the Aliens as training devices runs through the series. It is what it is, no help for that. I don't see it as demeaning at all.
I know you didn't come up with the concept, but to take this dangerous creature that is so difficult to kill and make it the plaything of some cowardly boogie men who get their botties spanked by Arnie and Danny - not buying it.
Quote from: SiL on May 21, 2007, 10:21:29 PM
That's kind'a silly, discounting Alien3 and Alien Resurrection cos you don't like them.
Not really. A3 was made by a guy who hates science fiction, and crashing the ship at the beginning makes A2 meaningless. A4 was, despite some fine shootin' by the new crew, not particularly inspiring.
QuotePeople say Aliens are like ants, and thus dumb, but ants aren't dumb. Leaf-cutter ants cultivate a particular plant which they eat. Many ant species invade and take over other hives, turning them into slaves. They farm aphids and can just generally do all kinds of neat things which aren't as stupid and mindless as the majority believe.
And yet, ants, despite their numbers, don't rule the world ...
QuoteDogs are smart. I own a dog, and dumb as he may be, he can do some pretty cool things. And who doesn't love Inspector Rex? But I imagine the reasoning behind doing what we saw the Aliens do in Labyrinth is quite a fair bit above what they're capable of. Maybe it's the opposable thumbs.
I wasn't the guy said dogs were dumb, I said I viewed the Aliens as about as bright as German Shepherd. That doesn't put them into the same intellectual league as Einstein.
QuoteAs soon as they're out of hearing range I'd say they're on their own.
So are drone bees and ants. But they are limited as to what they can accomplish on their own. Can they drive a truck? Pilot a ship? Paint a bedroom? As far as I can tell, the only things Aliens do is breed and eat people. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but c'mon.
QuoteIf we're going to compare Aliens to animals, I'd compare them to an octopus, or if we were ever feeling really generous, maybe a dolphin. Nowhere near a person, or a Predator, but smart enough to be a fearsome enemy and not act like a mental retard like most of the expanded universe presents them as.
I could go along with that; in fact, I think I pretty much have ...
Come on leave alone Mr. Perry :P Aliens sux :p j/k
Forget all about aliens smart, ants etc etc
I have a question:
What do you think about the next movie AVP2? and what do you expect of it?
Thx beforehand
QuoteWell yeah. At it's core it's an idiot plot until you actually scratch the surface. Brett wandered off on his own to get the cat because he had no reason to suspect there was a "nine-foot-tall-monster" on board and neither did the audience.
We are just going to have to disagree about this one. It's like Thelma and Louise -- every place there was a choice to be made, the Nostromo crew made the wrong one. The first time they knew something was in the ship and they split apart? Morons.
How many people figured the sequel would start with a chest-burster coming out of the cat?
QuoteDallas going into the duct was out of necessity more than anything else - what other choice did they have?
Please. They could let it starve to death in there. When you live next to the graveyard and you hear a funny noise in the middle of the night and you go to investigate in your nightgown? At that point, I'm rooting for the monster. You should die, the gene-pool is better off without you.
[/quote]When Arnie and Danny Glover took on Predators - who won?[/quote]
That's because the greatest of all super-heroes is Plot Device Man. They won because the scriptwriter and director and producer said so. Man as the most dangerous game goes way back in fiction, and that's what the Predator series is about. They are more advanced, better armed, have more martial skills, and shiftsuits that make them invisible, and yet, Ahnahl manages, though sheer human tenacity, a bit of cleverness, and a lot of dumb luck, to triumph.
I love this trope, I use it all the time, and I'm not the only one. You think Tom Cruise could be captured by the Japanese and after less than a year, learn how to swing a samurai sword well enough to tag the local sensei?
The mixed-martial arts champ being taken out by the good-hearted kid using a good-old American haymaker?
Rocky Balboa -- pick a number ... ?
QuoteOf course Predators are more advanced - goes without saying. But to say Aliens are about as smart as dogs, boggles the mind frankly.
And I still say I haven't seen any proof otherwise. They breed, they feed. Anybody ever see them doing anything else?
QuoteBut it's so cliched and boring. Much more sinister to have these things evolve naturally. Maybe they did have natural predators (with a little p) at one point, but they outlasted them. Even Dan O'Bannon's original take that they evolve into intelligent cultured beings after satisfying their adolescent bloodlust is vastly more interesting, than tired old bio-engineered weapons story.
But when the idea was first broached, it wasn't a tired, old *movie* cliche. Remember this is all based on the movies, and *everything* they do is cliched compared to written genre material. Anybody here think that The Matrix was cutting edge when it came out? Go back to H.G. Wells in the 1890s ...
Generally by the time it shows up on the silver screen, it's been done to death in stories and novels, certainly in horror and science fiction and fantasy.
QuoteThat the Predators used the Aliens as training devices runs through the series. It is what it is, no help for that. I don't see it as demeaning at all.
QuoteI know you didn't come up with the concept, but to take this dangerous creature that is so difficult to kill and make it the plaything of some cowardly boogie men who get their botties spanked by Arnie and Danny - not buying it.
Cowardly boogie-men? A race that has FTL travel and lets the unarmed and pregnant ones live? And the only reason they lost to Ahnahl and Danny was because that was in the script ...
Quote from: Rhadamanthys on May 22, 2007, 03:10:24 PM
Come on leave alone Mr. Perry :P Aliens sux :p j/k
Forget all about aliens smart, ants etc etc
I have a question:
What do you think about the next movie AVP2? and what do you expect of it?
Thx beforehand
No idea how it will turn out, I'm not in that loop. My experience with these things is that the more writers you have on a project, generally-speaking, the worse it is. Not that a single or pair or writers automatically means it will be good -- I've seen some dreadful movies across the scale, from one writer to eighteen, but if there are nine guys listed, that means nobody could satisfy the producer or director or both.
I would have been happy to see AvP based on the graphic novel/novelization from Dark Horse/Bantam, and not just because my daughter and I wrote it, but because it had a better story than the one they made.
A lot of folks in La-La-Land don't think the writing matters. They think that if you load it up with special effects and lots of action, nobody will care if the plot doesn't work and the dialog sucks. As a writer, I know that there are fifty people who can screw up a great script along the way -- director, actors, camermen, editors, the producer's girlfriend; but without a solid script going in, making the movie better? That is really hard. If everybody does a bang-up job, the best they can, nobdy screws up, if the script is terrible, the movie will be terrible.
What I'd like to see is a backstory that makes the Predators into something other than hunters, and digs into the Aliens a little deeper. I would like to see characters I can root for -- or against -- that I care about. I'd like, as I did in A2, to cheer when somebody like Ripley comes out in the forklift suit and tells the Queen to get away from Newt.
The reason A2 is -- in my opinion -- the best of the movies is because Jim Cameron and Gale Anne Hurd came up with a terrific script, and they love the genre, so that shows. There's a line in the original script, a copy of which I got from somebody, in a shot description, which the audience never sees nor hears. Camera is moving in on the dead ship in the opening scene, and it's described as "cold and remote, like the love of God."
That's a great line, and unless you read the script, you won't ever know it was there. It's indicative of Cameron's skill, and an example of the writing throughout.
Good writing triumphs EFX every time, in my mind.
I would surprised if that's what they give us.
Thank your very much for that answer Mr. Perry, u have reason, i think the best part of the movies is the background (the history) but i think Hollywood only want money in this days and that harms much the histories.
You haven't think about proposing FOX a Script for a film of AVP or Predator? I believe that you are the best person in the world that can make that job you have experience, great novels about A/P.
Quote from: steveperry on May 22, 2007, 02:55:41 PM
Not really. A3 was made by a guy who hates science fiction, and crashing the ship at the beginning makes A2 meaningless. A4 was, despite some fine shootin' by the new crew, not particularly inspiring.
...so does Ridley Scott.
Quote from: steveperry on May 22, 2007, 02:55:41 PM
Not really. A3 was made by a guy who hates science fiction,
Ridley Scott wasn't a major fan, either.
Quoteand crashing the ship at the beginning makes A2 meaningless.
Thematically poetic and consistent with the series. Just when thigs start to look good, bam, life kicks you in the nuts. Hard.
QuoteA4 was, despite some fine shootin' by the new crew, not particularly inspiring.
I don't find
Aliens particularly inspiring, either ;)
QuoteAnd yet, ants, despite their numbers, don't rule the world ...
But they're teeny tiny. Aliens aren't teeny tiny.
QuoteI wasn't the guy said dogs were dumb, I said I viewed the Aliens as about as bright as German Shepherd.
I didn't say you said dogs were dumb. But Dogs can't do science experiments. At least none that I've heard of.
QuoteSo are drone bees and ants. But they are limited as to what they can accomplish on their own. Can they drive a truck? Pilot a ship? Paint a bedroom? As far as I can tell, the only things Aliens do is breed and eat people. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but c'mon.
But they don't need to pilot vehicles - Impregnate the driver, or a passenger. Alien baby spreads to the far reaches.
Alien, anyone? And paint bedrooms? Well, they do seem rather handy with hive resin.
QuoteThe first time they knew something was in the ship and they split apart? Morons.
Once they figure that there's really nothing they can do about it - Dallas attempting to drive it by his lonesome - they figure the best idea is to do the same thing, but together. Then, of course, Ash goes berserk and the plan flies out the airlock. At which point they break up again, but they want to get the hell out of there and it's easier if they do two things at once. It makes sense.
QuotePlease. They could let it starve to death in there.
They had limited resources once out of hypersleep, and they had no idea if the thing even needed to eat. On top of that, as far as they knew it would charge in at them the first chance it got. So, best defense was a rather piss-poor offense. ... Which failed. Miserably.
QuoteAnybody ever see them doing anything else?
They set traps in
Alien Resurrection, cut the power in
Aliens...
QuoteAnd the only reason they lost to Ahnahl and Danny was because that was in the script ...
It was because they have bloated egos, one thing that
has been consistent since
Predator. They're cocky bastards, and they pay for it.
A question, though; Have you read Alan Dean Foster's novelisations at all? If so, what did you think?
QuoteCowardly boogie-men?
Shooting at inferior (script considerations aside) prey from long range, with energy weapons, while invisible, always struck me as rather cowardly. Then when they ditch the weapons and go mano-a-mano they get their arses handed to them.
SiL more or less addressed what I was going to. You're obviously pro-Predator while I'm an Alien geek and ne'er the twain and all that. :)
Just to back to an earlier question - You set Earth Hive in 2092, yet as far back as 1979, it was established Alien was set in the 22nd century, making the 2092 date about a century too early. Did you come up with th 2092 date or did Dark Horse give you the wrong info (the '92' bit seems about right following Aliens).
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on May 22, 2007, 06:56:22 PM
Quote from: steveperry on May 22, 2007, 02:55:41 PM
Not really. A3 was made by a guy who hates science fiction, and crashing the ship at the beginning makes A2 meaningless. A4 was, despite some fine shootin' by the new crew, not particularly inspiring.
...so does Ridley Scott.
Yeah, but at least Scott knows how to make movies. He has a great visual sense.
Quote from: steveperry on May 24, 2007, 12:38:29 AM
Yeah, but at least Scott knows how to make movies. He has a great visual sense.
Ouch! Fincher also clearly knows how to make a movie -
Fight Club and
Se7en, anyone? - with one of the best visual styles out there.
He just never got the chance to utilize it to its full potential what with the dicking around with the studio (Re-writes, gaps in filming, constantly being denied creative decisions, not being allowed to finish the film...)
Quote from: SM on May 22, 2007, 09:19:11 PM
QuoteCowardly boogie-men?
QuoteShooting at inferior (script considerations aside) prey from long range, with energy weapons, while invisible, always struck me as rather cowardly. Then when they ditch the weapons and go mano-a-mano they get their arses handed to them.
Like the Fezzik the giant in Princess Bride when he says, "My way is not very sportsmanlike ..."
Human hunters take down Bambi from a distance using weapons, and Bambi can't shoot back at all. At least humans have a chance against Predators, as you have pointed out. Man is the most dangerous local game, and if you have a weapon that'll kill your opponent, he can't get any deader if it's a knife, rifle, or pocket nuke.
Besides, being invisible doesn't always help when somebody opens up on the whole forest with an electric minigun ...
Let's see: Predators are bigger, stronger, faster, better trained, hard to hurt and kill, but the one-on-one human wins? Only in movies. The smart money bets on the Predators hand-to-hand against a man. Creature can backhand you and knock you twenty feet through the air? Be worse than you in a fight with a six-year-old kid. I wouldn't give any kind of odds on the kid winning.
Yeah, Predators are arrogant and they underestimate their opponents, which is always a bad idea. If they believed humans were as good as they were? They'd be a lot more careful and I doubt they'd lose very often. If you prepare for the worst and doesn't happen, it's all gravy.
Unless, of course, I am writing it. In which case, I can give my ooman some advantages ...
QuoteSiL more or less addressed what I was going to. You're obviously pro-Predator while I'm an Alien geek and ne'er the twain and all that. :)
Actually, I'm not pro one or the other, but for me, it's like the difference between a tiger and a gladiator. Aliens might not be as dumb as fence posts, but until they can work a manual transmission or come up with an FTL spaceship, they can't run with the smart crowd. What they do all seems instinctual, like ants herding aphids, and that's way down the sentience scale compare to people or Predators. Monkeys can use rudimentary tools. Crows drop nuts onto the concrete to open them.
None of them are going to set up my DVD player.
I like tigers, and admire them. I'd bet the trained gladiator to win against a tiger most of the time. Smart beats fierce, otherwise, we wouldn't be having this conversation ...
(quote]ust to back to an earlier question - You set Earth Hive in 2092, yet as far back as 1979, it was established Alien was set in the 22nd century, making the 2092 date about a century too early. Did you come up with th 2092 date or did Dark Horse give you the wrong info (the '92' bit seems about right following Aliens).
I don't recall the specifics -- it's been a decade and a couple years since I wrote it -- but I'm guessing it probably either came from Dark Horse's graphic novel, or, just as likely I mis-read it. It happens.
Any big universe has continuity problems, usually because nobody thought it was going to get to be a big universe when they set out, and things pile up along the way. Star Wars and Star Trek have all kinds of contradictory dates, there are the original Klingons and the new models, and you try to explain all that away when it comes back and bites you. Sometimes you can, sometimes, you just have to shrug and let it go.
It is true, the devil is in the details, and I try to get 'em right as much as I can, but past a certain point, the demons are too small to chase down. There are folks who know what color the lint was in Ripley's left front pocket last Tuesday, but I hope you won't think less of me when I say I don't really care. Yeah, I'm a fanboy, came out of comics and TV and science fiction, but there's a point beyond which it gets to be an obsession. I try to say away from there ...
Quote from: SiL on May 24, 2007, 12:51:38 AM
Quote from: steveperry on May 24, 2007, 12:38:29 AM
Yeah, but at least Scott knows how to make movies. He has a great visual sense.
Ouch! Fincher also clearly knows how to make a movie - Fight Club and Se7en, anyone? - with one of the best visual styles out there.
He just never got the chance to utilize it to its full potential what with the dicking around with the studio (Re-writes, gaps in filming, constantly being denied creative decisions, not being allowed to finish the film...)
Um, not exactly. He kinda went in saying he hated the earlier movies and wanted to switch from sci-fi back to horror. I thought this was a mistake -- science fiction is a better platform for Aliens, as Cameron and Hurd's film aptly demonstrated. They got it.
Yeah, he has a style, that MTV look, but what matters is the story, and A3 didn't have one. Everybody run around in the prison and kill each other, booga booga ...
And I didn't think Fight Club or Se7ven were the highest examples of the movie makers' art myself. Looked fine, stories didn't move me. Personal taste ...
Quote from: steveperry on May 24, 2007, 01:21:52 AM
science fiction is a better platform for Aliens, as Cameron and Hurd's film aptly demonstrated. They got it.
Pity about the rest of the film :P
Quotebut what matters is the story, and A3 didn't have one. Everybody run around in the prison and kill each other, booga booga ...
Exactly why I prefer the extended edition. Much more story, better flow, better characterisation wherever possible. Didn't feel butchered like the rest of the movie.
QuoteAnd I didn't think Fight Club or Se7ven were the highest examples of the movie makers' art myself. Looked fine, stories didn't move me. Personal taste ...
I thought everything about
Fight Club was spot-on. Only movie twist I never saw coming. Well, maybe that and Ian Holm being a milk-spewing robot.
But my earlier question seems to have got lost in it all; have you ever read Alan Dean Foster's novel tie-ins?
QuoteI don't recall the specifics -- it's been a decade and a couple years since I wrote it -- but I'm guessing it probably either came from Dark Horse's graphic novel, or, just as likely I mis-read it. It happens.
Kinda figured it'd be something mundane.
QuoteThere are folks who know what color the lint was in Ripley's left front pocket last Tuesday
I resemble that remark!
I've always been under the impression that Lucasfilm were fairly diligent with with continuity - is there much difference between dealing with them and Fox/ Dark Horse?
QuoteBut my earlier question seems to have got lost in it all; have you ever read Alan Dean Foster's novel tie-ins?
Oh, yeah. I know Alan Dean from way back -- I toastmastered a convention at which he was the guest of honor years and years ago. He was the go-to-guy for years on movie novelizations. Wrote the first Star Wars book for Del Rey, and George Lucas not only gives him credit for it, he gave him a nice bonus when the movie did so well.
QuoteI've always been under the impression that Lucasfilm were fairly diligent with with continuity - is there much difference between dealing with them and Fox/ Dark Horse?
They
are very careful, these days. Anybody who has a long-running universe is. But early on, nobody expected the Star Wars movie to become the monster franchise it spawned. Go find the first Marvel comics and look for Jaxx, who was a giant green bunny rabbit. Definitely not canon ...
Same-same elsewhere. Conan the novels don't agree with Conan the movies. People usually address this by saying, "Well, there are many tales of Conan of Cimmeria. Some say he was a pit-fighter, while other say ..." yadda, yadda.
Sometimes, you can reconcile the stuff, sometimes you hit it with a lick and move on, sometimes you just ignore it. That's all you can do.
As to fanboy stuff, I am guilty of it myself. I got action figures in my office. But as a writer, I can't write for the hardcore fanboys -- you can't please them all because they disagree about almost everything, and if make one set happy, another group will be unhappy. Look at the arguments on any online group, and you can't miss what I'm talking about.
"The lint in her pocket was green, because when they were making the jackets, the processing overdye leaked and -- "
"You moron! It was
blue! There's no evidence the dye leaked onto that jacket, and the cloth was from Altair Nineteen, where Indigo is the prevaling hue of all women's jackets, so ..."
You can get wound around your own axle trying to cover every small continuity glitch. Make one guy happy, piss the next guy off. Trust me, I hear from both guys, in detail.
There's a great episode of The Simpsons in which a bunch of fanboys are asking questions of a writer, and the gist of it is like this: Well, on Monday's episode, when whathisname got hit in the ribs, the tone was a C-sharp, but on Friday when the got hit on the same ribs, the tone was a C-major. So ... which one is right?
To which the answer is what Shatner said on that long-ago episode of Saturday Night Live: Hey -- get a life!
I love to put in-jokes and convoluted stuff into my stuff for the fans. In one of the Aliens books -- forgive me, but I don't recall which one -- I had a military unit and three of the guys were named Huey, Dewey, and Louie -- fans who were paying attention caught it.
There's a line I always wanted to use, and I found a way to get away with it. My editor had it blown up and put on her wall: "Eat hot plasma death, alien-scum!"
This is fun.
But guys who are so steeped in a universe that they get into the microscopic details do tend to get obsessive, and you will go crazy trying to please them. I can't afford to lose the brain cells, so I gave that up ...
QuoteThere's a great episode of The Simpsons in which a bunch of fanboys are asking questions of a writer, and the gist of it is like this: Well, on Monday's episode, when whathisname got hit in the ribs, the tone was a C-sharp, but on Friday when the got hit on the same ribs, the tone was a C-major. So ... which one is right?
I liked the one where Lucy Lawless writes that sort of thing as "Every time something like that happens, a wizard did it". "But..." "Wizard!"
QuoteAs to fanboy stuff, I am guilty of it myself. I got action figures in my office. But as a writer, I can't write for the hardcore fanboys -- you can't please them all because they disagree about almost everything, and if make one set happy, another group will be unhappy. Look at the arguments on any online group, and you can't miss what I'm talking about.
I'm sure I have no idea what you're talking about... ;)
Is there something to be said for keeping hardcore fans away from writing for franchises? I've written a couple of Star Wars fan scripts, and my attempt at writing an Alien V tanked because it was so heavy on details and light on actual story. And I find most other peoples fanfic excrutiating.
Both Joss Whedon and Paul Anderson professed to be massive fans of the Alien series (well the first two at any rate) and yet they've turned in arguably the two weakest installments. Is it too simplistic to say you need to be a writer first and a fan second?
Quote from: SM on May 25, 2007, 12:30:04 AM
Is there something to be said for keeping hardcore fans away from writing for franchises? I've written a couple of Star Wars fan scripts, and my attempt at writing an Alien V tanked because it was so heavy on details and light on actual story. And I find most other peoples fanfic excrutiating.
Both Joss Whedon and Paul Anderson professed to be massive fans of the Alien series (well the first two at any rate) and yet they've turned in arguably the two weakest installments. Is it too simplistic to say you need to be a writer first and a fan second?
A whole lot of writers come out of fandom -- in comics, science fiction, fantasy, horror. If you don't love the stuff, you ought not even try to write it -- you might hit the obvious marks okay, but it is the between-the-lines material that really sells it to a reader. Jim Cameron loves science fiction, that comes across in his movies. I imagine Avator will blow our socks off.
Some people don't like the stuff at all, but write it. It's never as good. It's missing the heart.
What you have to watch as a fan is that you don't allow your desire to show how much you know of all the little details get in the way of the story. People don't care that the lint in Ripley's pocket is green or blue; they care that, terrified as she was of the Aliens, she went back for Newt. (And what they didn't know unless they read the original script was why, but that didn't matter. She did. Bravery isn't a lack of fear -- it's doing what needs to be done even if you are scared shitless.)
Character, under pressure, that's what people relate to the most.
If you do the research, you want it to show. Too much kills reader interest. No matter how fascinating you might think it is, a big expository lump stops forward motion like a giant boulder in the middle of the road. Generally, if you have a scene in a 75,000 word novel that runs more than four pages? It's too long. Cut it down.
Pacing matters.
You have two guys sitting at a table telling each other stuff they both already know for fifteen pages, your reader's eyes will glaze over and he's gonna start snoring. He will stop reading or skip ahead, both of which are bad. If you absolutely have to have all that stuff -- and you don't -- cut it into three or four scenes and sprinkle it in. Nobody wants a brick in the stew.
Here's the formula: Chase your hero up a tree and throw rocks at him. Show us who he is, what makes him tick, make us like him, fear for him, root for him. Everything else comes from that. Every time he overcomes an obstacle, put a bigger one in front of him. That's your story, and the plot needs to center around your hero coming to the last, biggest, win-or-die obstacle, and get resolved because of who he -- or she -- is.
That's it. Simple.
Commander Scott on the Enterprise might love to read technical manuals. Movie-goers and fiction readers want to be able to identify with who you people your tale with That's the cake -- everything else is icing.
Nobody is going to break into spontaneous applause when they find out what color the lint is in Ripley's pocket. When she says "Get away from her, you bitch!" and cranks up her hydraulics? They will laugh out loud and cheer.
I did.
"Avatar." Typo-man rules ...
Steve
QuoteGenerally, if you have a scene in a 75,000 word novel that runs more than four pages?
I try to stay away from prose. One must know one's limitations.
However, to go off on a slightly anal tangent, you use the word 'scene' there. I've used it in the past when talking about books, but always thought it was incorrect, and was more movie lingo. Do you use that word in the industry or would you normally use the word 'passage' or something else?
Quote from: steveperry on May 25, 2007, 11:22:23 PM
Some people don't like the stuff at all, but write it. It's never as good. It's missing the heart.
I think many would disagree when it came to
Alien. As Walter Hill said, and on the whole I tend to agree, 'The best thing I'm bringing to this is that I don't like science fiction', or close enough. I like O'Bannon's script, cheese and all, but it really does pale in comparison to the re-writes.
But enough of the Aliens -- Why has it taken so long to get to writing a solo Predator novel?
Steve, in Female-War, when you described the "Mother-Queen", the description sounded very different than what was in the Dark horse comic.
I never really like the Dark-horse art depicting her, and she looked too much like a Cricket.
The version you described, in my mind looked more like a overgrown version of the Queen we saw in the movie Aliens, and I liked your description much better.
Just wondering what you were envisioning when you described her in the book.
I remember you said 8 meters tall, and four arms (like a normal Queen), and in the DH comic she looked like an insect, and did not even have arms.
Quote from: SM on May 26, 2007, 10:33:39 AM
QuoteGenerally, if you have a scene in a 75,000 word novel that runs more than four pages?
I try to stay away from prose. One must know one's limitations.
However, to go off on a slightly anal tangent, you use the word 'scene' there. I've used it in the past when talking about books, but always thought it was incorrect, and was more movie lingo. Do you use that word in the industry or would you normally use the word 'passage' or something else?
Nope, it's correct. A scene is merely where something takes place. You can use it in movies, books, comics, poetry, wherever.
Quote from: SiL on May 26, 2007, 11:34:43 AM
Quote from: steveperry on May 25, 2007, 11:22:23 PM
Some people don't like the stuff at all, but write it. It's never as good. It's missing the heart.
I think many would disagree when it came to Alien. As Walter Hill said, and on the whole I tend to agree, 'The best thing I'm bringing to this is that I don't like science fiction', or close enough. I like O'Bannon's script, cheese and all, but it really does pale in comparison to the re-writes.
But enough of the Aliens -- Why has it taken so long to get to writing a solo Predator novel?
Well, my position is pretty obvious. I thought Aliens looked great, but it was an idiot-plot and I wasn't impressed with it. Walter Hill is a great producer. Not a writer. His taste in cheese is different than mine.
Which is why I think A2 was a better movie -- Cameron likes skiffy and it shows. My opinion, which with a dime will get you ten pennies, if somebody wants to bother to make change.
As for the Predator book, I had other projects lined up ahead of it, and if one of those hadn't been put on hold -- the novelization of the movie script "The Secret," which Mike Richardson and I wrote, based on his idea -- I wouldn't have been able to get to the Predator book now. (Mike wrote a four-issue miniseries for his comic line, spooky stuff, and we'll get back to the novelization eventually, probably once the movie sells.)
Quote from: Meathead320 on May 26, 2007, 03:53:42 PM
Steve, in Female-War, when you described the "Mother-Queen", the description sounded very different than what was in the Dark horse comic.
I never really like the Dark-horse art depicting her, and she looked too much like a Cricket.
The version you described, in my mind looked more like a overgrown version of the Queen we saw in the movie Aliens, and I liked your description much better.
Just wondering what you were envisioning when you described her in the book.
I remember you said 8 meters tall, and four arms (like a normal Queen), and in the DH comic she looked like an insect, and did not even have arms.
It's a different form. I have to paint a picture with words, which are poor tools compared to pictures. Everybody brings a different viewpoint to a story; you work with what you got, do the best you can.
I don't recall the exact timeline, I might have seen A2 by then and incorporated that into my description.
Quote from: steveperry on May 27, 2007, 06:01:18 PM
It's a different form. I have to paint a picture with words, which are poor tools compared to pictures. Everybody brings a different viewpoint to a story; you work with what you got, do the best you can.
I don't recall the exact timeline, I might have seen A2 by then and incorporated that into my description.
I see. At least you bothered to see A2.
I think the artist that drew her for DH never saw it.
I despised Sam Kieth's artwork initially.
Then it began to grow on me.
What, like a tumour?
I still despise it. I bought the first 3 issues of Earth War way back whenever it was they came out, and couldn't be arsed buying the last issue to find out the end of the story because the artwork was so unbelivably inappropriate. I ended up relenting a couple of months later, and it was such a let down after books 1 and 2.
That's the 3rd one right? The only sore spot in what would otherwise be a flawless Aliens Omnibus.
Quote from: steveperry on May 27, 2007, 05:57:39 PM
Well, my position is pretty obvious. I thought Alien looked great, but it was an idiot-plot and I wasn't impressed with it. Walter Hill is a great producer. Not a writer. His taste in cheese is different than mine.
Which is why I think A2 was a better movie -- Cameron likes skiffy and it shows.
Well, if we're gonna talk about idiot plots, I think
Aliens would easily rank up there with the best. It's a great lesson in how to dumb everything down, from your main characters to your enemy, for the sole purpose of having a particular scene -- In this case, Ripley saving Newt.
If it had been competent, fully armed marines that were taken out by the Aliens, then Ripley going in single-handed would've been even more ridiculous. Cameron had to completely disarm his marines for the first fight, making the Aliens all the less imposing when you finally realise that the Aliens are, for all intents and purposes, taking out darn-near unarmed opponents.
Which means they aren't so dangerous after all. Which means a woman lugging around two heavy guns with five minutes' worth of training can go into the hive and do considerable amounts of damage without getting a scratch on her.
Quote from: SiL on May 27, 2007, 11:53:58 PM
Quote from: steveperry on May 27, 2007, 05:57:39 PM
Well, my position is pretty obvious. I thought Alien looked great, but it was an idiot-plot and I wasn't impressed with it. Walter Hill is a great producer. Not a writer. His taste in cheese is different than mine.
Which is why I think A2 was a better movie -- Cameron likes skiffy and it shows.
Well, if we're gonna talk about idiot plots, I think Aliens would easily rank up there with the best. It's a great lesson in how to dumb everything down, from your main characters to your enemy, for the sole purpose of having a particular scene -- In this case, Ripley saving Newt.
If it had been competent, fully armed marines that were taken out by the Aliens, then Ripley going in single-handed would've been even more ridiculous. Cameron had to completely disarm his marines for the first fight, making the Aliens all the less imposing when you finally realise that the Aliens are, for all intents and purposes, taking out darn-near unarmed opponents.
Which means they aren't so dangerous after all. Which means a woman lugging around two heavy guns with five minutes' worth of training can go into the hive and do considerable amounts of damage without getting a scratch on her.
Those are still the things about A2 I did not like.
I liked the way the Queen looked, but with the loader scene Cameron even made her look weak.
Same. I love the movie, but I can't really be afraid or feel threatened by a creature that isn't really very dangerous at all. I have the same problem with some of the more recent novels - the Aliens are incompetent pansies, so I don't really become afraid or affected by them.
Replace them with other creatures and you could have similar circumstances. The Aliens don't feel as unique.
Well Mr. Perry, you may be happy to know I just got your first two Alien novels in an omnibus for 6 bucks at a second hand bookshop. They also had MIB but I didn't have the money.
Not sure he'd be that happy - I don't think authors get royalties for second hand sales. ;D
Surely not unhappy though. :)
man im a big fan of him i got all his comics ~!!lol :) :o ;D
He wrote novels.
Stradley wrote the comics.
And Mark Verheiden.
I meant the first two AvP series.
Steve - You and I spoke briefly on AOL many (many) years ago in the Comics/Dark Horse/Aliens area. Not that you remember this, I'm sure, but your comments about the Alien's possible history were most inspiring to me, and in the eventual creation of my site. ...not that my writing is on par with yours, by any stretch of the imagination.
Anyway, now for my questions.
You were commissioned to write various ALIENS and AVP novels... stories that were already created in comic form. You had to stay close to the story as it already exsisted. I imagine this would be a little difficult since I'm sure there were aspects of the stories you would have handled differently had you been the original author. What would you have changed in (I'll pick two to keep it simple) Nightmare Asylum and AVP: Prey had you been able to?
The additional material that helped flesh out characters, events, and settings were all your additions to the stories. Obviously they are necessary due to the medium of the written word - as you said earlier you "need to paint with words," and they add a new depth to the stories that wasn't present in the comics. Were these additions all your own, or were you given additional, or possibly unused material from the comics to help in these areas. Also, what was the approval process like for the original aspects of the stories? Was it more stringent than the existing aspects of the stories, or a bit more loose?
Perry Snr sadly hasn't been around for months.
I'll drop him a line, let him know he's got some Qs.
Thanks, guys.
Anchorpoint
The nature of doing a novelization of an existing work, be it a movie script or graphic novel or game, is that you have to honor the source material and stick fairly close to the major plot lines and characters. Some things that look good in a comic don't play too well in a novel, and you have to alter them
Once instance: The futuristic equivalent of the Coast Guard blows up a derelict ship in Earth orbit. Looks cool, but is a bad idea -- you get all that debris whizzing past, and it is gonna hole somebody's ship. At fifteen miles a second, even a paint chip impacting your viewport will crater it.
So I had them kick the ship into a path that would eventually put it into the sun instead.
Such alterations were my own, and as far as I recall, I didn't have any other source material that wasn't used by the graphic novels, no outtakes, like that.
Approval process went through Bantam. I did the ms, shipped it to them, and we hashed out their concerns. Sometimes, they had things I had to fix. Mostly, I was able to convince them that what I'd done was valid. Not always -- there are some things I had to change. But the stuff about the Predator's culture? They didn't bat an eyelash at that.
Is it easier to work with bantam or darkhorse press?
Or do both have their advantages?
Two questions:
Firstly, what's with the overabundance of unnecessarily long-named technical doo-dads in Earth Hive? The exact number may not be too large, but as far as I'm concerned two is too many, especially considering the Alien franchise, and the source comic, have a decided lack of that sort of stuff.
Secondly, why all the added smut?
There was smut in Earth Hive? Newt was shagging Butler in the original comic.
Or do you mean Female War? I seem to recall some stuff in that...?
Quote from: SiL on Oct 10, 2007, 08:55:10 PM
Secondly, why all the added smut?
Don't you know - Sex sells.
Seriously though... what smut?
SiL doesn't like the over descriptions of sex in Earth Hive.
I never would have figured SiL for a prude. ;)
Yes, Earth Hive has Newt shagging Bueller, but it's a single panel. Senor Perry goes into great(ly) unnecessary detail; Nightmare Asylum also went overboard; and Female War could've bordered on 'Guest chapter By Ann Rice'.
And it's not that I'm a prude.
It's that when I read it, I can't not think of Carrie Henn. It's like some sleazy old dude sitting at home writing smut about a perfectly unsuspecting person who's likely never heard of them, and it creeps me out but good.
No offense to Senor Perry, either. I got nothing against smut. Just Carrie Henn smut.
There's yer problem then...Rebecca is not 10 years old any more in the stories where this takes place. You gots to update your mental image of her.
That's the problem.
I've seen her in the Quadrilogy. I know what she looks like now, and it's a pretty good indicator of how she'd look in the books. Remove a few wrinkles. Slim up a bit due to being in a nuthouse (crazies always seem thin).
Voila.
It always helps me to think of her as Billie, not Newt. That way I don't get images of little girls in my head. :o
Although my version of Earth Hive is combined with Nightmare Asylum into one novel and Billie and Wilks are used instead of Newt and Hicks.
The sex never bothered me in Steve's novels. It was handled tastefully and added to the humanity of the stories. We got to see how Billie and Beuller felt... their emotions... their tenderness. I think it played wonderfully against the backdrop of fear, death, destruction, and isolation. The one thing that the ALIEN and ALIENS were really about was the people and their humanity. Steve really captured that in his novels. The films didn't have sex - not until ALIEN 3 - but seeing that side of humanity in the novels really helped paint a picture of who the characters were, and what kind of world they were a part of.
I agree totally. My last post sort of made it look like I'm squeamish about the sex scenes, but tbh it doesn't bother me. Just makes the characters seem more human, and makes it even more surprising when you discover Bueller's true nature.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 10, 2007, 04:44:37 PM
Is it easier to work with bantam or darkhorse press?
Or do both have their advantages?
I haven't had any problems with either. Bantam was the default publisher for years, and I knew and liked the editors there. When Dark Horse started doing their own books, I talked to Mike Richardson, offering my advice on how best to set up things on the editorial end. And their editors are just as professional as those as Bantam, so either way, I'm good. Biggest advantage is, I can drop by the Dark Horse offices and say hello from where I live -- NYC is much longer haul.
As for the comment about smut? Well, I wasn't writing these things for my mother, but for people who might actually think about sex now and then, i.e., adults. I never got any complaints, either from editors or fans, leastways, until now, so I figured they mostly must have been okay with it.
You might not be a prude, but if you think there was that much unnecessary sex in the novels, that's your opinion. You are entitled to it, but we disagree.
Way I see it, healthy sex is not smut, and the relationships came from the graphic novels. They don't use the f-word in the comics, either, but real people under stress often do, so I made the language in the books a little more realistic while I was at it.
As for doo-dads, it is a science fiction series -- goes with the territory.
I'm not seeing how that answered the question, but it probably does *shrugs*
Having just watched
Resident Evil Extinction might have something to do with it. Who knows.
QuoteAs for doo-dads, it is a science fiction series -- goes with the territory.
And yet the Alien movies were devoid ...
One could argue the introduction of earth as a primary setting for two out of the three original stories played a part in the bringing up of doodads. Simply more culture on earth than there is in space on single ships and sparsely populated planets.
What do-dads we talking about anyway? I can only remember things like plasma cannons and holo projectors.
There was one scene I can remember where they're studying the Alien on Earth, and I ended up skipping a few pages cos I couldn't keep up with all the joined words.
Hey Steve Perry,
Your books are awesome, especially Earth Hive. I was wondering, why were Hicks and Newt changed to Wilks and Billie because I always saw your novels as a continuation of the Aliens storyline with Hicks and Newt, and not in keeping with the frankly terrible Alien 3. Was it your original intention to have Hicks and Newt in the novel instead of Wilks and Billie and if so did Dark Horse or publisher want you to change this? Do you think a reprint of Earth Hive with the inclusion of Hicks and Newt will be made in the near future? Because I really think that fans would be able to relate to Hicks and Newt more than Wilks and Billie. For example Ripley is in Nightmare Asylum and she died in Alien 3, so why can't Hicks and Newt be in Earth Hive?
Grasping for straws my young apprentice.
Ripley in the novels was an android. It wasn't the same ripley seen on films or the first iterations of the comics.
And the names were changed because throughout DH media they were changed.
To further Corporal Hicks' statement: DH went back and changed the names to remain consistent with the events in ALIEN3. The original comics featuring Hicks and Newt were published in 1990... 2 years before ALIEN3 was released. So in the mid 90's DH went back and re-issued the TPBs of the three comic series with new character names and new titles. ALIENS, ALIENS vol. 2, and ALIENS: Earth War became Outbreak, Nightmare Asylum, and Female War.
QuoteThe original comics featuring Hicks and Newt were published in 1990..
1988.
Sorry. You're absolutely right. I was thinking about the hard bound trade versions.
Quote from: To The Death on Oct 13, 2007, 10:21:26 PM
Hey Steve Perry,
Your books are awesome, especially Earth Hive. I was wondering, why were Hicks and Newt changed to Wilks and Billie because I always saw your novels as a continuation of the Aliens storyline with Hicks and Newt, and not in keeping with the frankly terrible Alien 3. Was it your original intention to have Hicks and Newt in the novel instead of Wilks and Billie and if so did Dark Horse or publisher want you to change this? Do you think a reprint of Earth Hive with the inclusion of Hicks and Newt will be made in the near future? Because I really think that fans would be able to relate to Hicks and Newt more than Wilks and Billie. For example Ripley is in Nightmare Asylum and she died in Alien 3, so why can't Hicks and Newt be in Earth Hive?
At the time of the first novelizations, it was legal/contractual thing with Fox -- we couldn't use Hicks and Newt in the books, and had to come up with alternative names. They owned the property, and that was part of the deal if DH wanted to do the novels. I think they were worried it would conflict with later movies.
The Alien movies weren't devoid of technology -- it was just that most of it was visual and not explained.
In a novel, you don't have the luxury of pictures, you have to try and show things using words. So you have to name them and describe them. Traditionally science fiction novels tend to have a lot of tech-toys and made-up words -- neologisms. I always figure if you are bright enough to be reading an SF novel, you can either figure out what the made-up words are from context, or look them up, if it want to know what they mean. I like to give my readers credit for a certain amount of smart ...
It's not that they were that hard to comprehend. They just got so numerous and frequent that I lost track of them all and got jaded.
The new movie should be called Steve Perry vs Sil.
I don't know that Perry is mma in the modern sense, but didn't I read somewhere back in the day that he has taken/instructed three different styles of martial art?
The battle could be difficult sil.
I'm a black belt in Tae Kwon Do. Bring it on, bitches :P
Can I compete, too? I've seen The Karate Kid 37 times.
"Karate will get you killed!"
Hey Steve
I have another question. Which Alien/Predator film is your favourite and how did it inspire or influence your career? Also could you tell us anything about the novels you are currently planning.
Hmm. I answered the last question on page 9 yesterday and posted it, but now it's gone ...
I'll wait a couple days, see if it shows up ..
Well I certainly didn't delete anything.
Quote from: steveperry on Oct 31, 2007, 09:48:16 PM
Hmm. I answered the last question on page 9 yesterday and posted it, but now it's gone ...
I'll wait a couple days, see if it shows up ..
Well, I guess it musta got lost in the aether.
I thought A2 was the best of the Aliens movies. A1 was truckers-in-space, and scary, but an idiot plot.
Didn't like A3 at all, which starts out making A2 moot. A4 was ... okay.
First Predator movie, even though I really like Danny Glover in P2.
AvP, I wish they'd used the comic/novelization Dark Horse and my daughter and I did as a basis for the script -- our story was better.
I'm hoping AvpR recharges things, though the plot looks pretty thin, from the trailers. It'll depend on how clever the writing is, and how good the actors are, just like other movies. The EFX look good, and there would seem to be a lot of exploding heads.
My next Predator novel is set in Alaska, due out early next year, February, I think. Guys who like guns will probably think it's okay -- got some good ones in it.
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 01, 2007, 12:23:49 AM
A1 was truckers-in-space, and scary, but an idiot plot.
And
Aliens wasn't?
Dur, da Aliens kilt all da kolonists, let's all bunch up in da cramped Alien hive spaces with flame throwers duuur.
The little girl survives the entire massacre of the colony ... yet screams the second an Alien appears.
I doubt she survived by hanging round with the Aliens to be fair.
I agree that Aliens is the best. I wish Aliens 3 had been like Earth Hive though, it makes me angry everytime I see Hicks and Newt die.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 01, 2007, 12:26:09 AM
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 01, 2007, 12:23:49 AM
A1 was truckers-in-space, and scary, but an idiot plot.
And Aliens wasn't?
Dur, da Aliens kilt all da kolonists, let's all bunch up in da cramped Alien hive spaces with flame throwers duuur.
The little girl survives the entire massacre of the colony ... yet screams the second an Alien appears.
Much less so. First, you got armed marines who are used to kicking ass an taking names, so they are more of a match than truck drivers who are having to make do for weapons.. Second, they have an excuse for not carrying all their hardware, you know, that potential atomic explosion and all, and they have a stupid officer, which might be redundant. Plus there is a cororate geek who is working behind their backs. Better writing, and what got left out was why Ripley had to go back for Newt -- it's in the original script.
Yeah, it was a bug-hunt with a big nod to Heinlein, but they had guns, flamethrower, armored cars, and experience to believe they could handle the situation.
And little girls tend to scream every time they are frightened -- they don't get used to it real quick. You don't have any kids, do you?
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 01, 2007, 08:37:09 PM
First, you got armed marines who are used to kicking ass an taking names, so they are more of a match than truck drivers who are having to make do for weapons..
Who are patently incompetent and, in reality, no real match for the Alien.
QuoteSecond, they have an excuse for not carrying all their hardware, you know, that potential atomic explosion and all,
Yes, so crowd around with those flame throwers in the tight spaces.
QuotePlus there is a cororate geek who is working behind their backs.
Yeah, Burke really forced them to act like morons when it came to dealing with the creatures in the first encounter.
Oh, wait...
QuoteBetter writing,
Highly debatable.
Quoteand what got left out was why Ripley had to go back for Newt -- it's in the original script.
Because she needed a Quick Fix Daughter Replacement and Newt was the only person handy.
Quotebut they had guns, flamethrower, armored cars, and experience to believe they could handle the situation.
This makes it any less dumb
how, exactly?
Whee, shootybangs! The movie's writing is far ahead of the creeping terror of the original! Look at that debris
fly!
QuoteAnd little girls tend to scream every time they are frightened --
Which is my point. How the hell did she survive?
Fine, let's just get right down to it:
Do you know what an idiot plot is?
Getting beaten by an enemy doesn't necessarily make you an idiot. Whether the marines were a crack fighting force or not, they thought they were, and had enough experience and reason to believe they could deal with the situation. That they couldn't doesn't make them idiots, it just makes them wrong. Somebody always loses the war.
Not always making the right choice is not the same as always making the wrong one.
If the writer had set it up that the marines were unbeatable, there wouldn't have been any movie, now would there? Nuke it from space up front, end of story.
And the writing? Better. No question. You read both scripts? Speaking here as a pro, Cameron's script was better, hands down, across the board, pick a spot.
Hey, you don't like the movie, you don't like what I write, no problem. You are entitled to your opinion, it's sort of a free country. Of course, if you can do better, have at it. I'm sure that the powers-that-be would be happy to see your stuff, given as how it must be so much superior to what's out there. Give it a shot.
Anybody can talk the talk. What else you got?
Damn, you taking heat too? :-\
Hang in there. ;)
You know, I seem to be able to get people SiL doesn't like onto the board.
Hey, no problem, I'm a big boy, I can take care of myself. But if we are going to have a debate, I need to see a reason to put any kind of stock in somebody's stand-alone opinion.
If somebody wants to lecture me on what a story or better writing is, that's okay, but they need to demonstrate that they know more about it than I do.
So far, I ain't seen it from SiL. His opinion and a dime will get him ten pennies, if somebody wants to bother to make change.
Truth is, so will mine. You know what opinions are like ...
However: While I don't claim to be a great writer, I do have thirty years' worth of professional credits to back my observations about the process, so I figure that gives my opinion maybe a tad more weight on that subject.
Think it comes from the fact that your Alien novels are old. And with that age comes the blandness in your writing. Looking back, Earth Hive isn't a very inspired or well written novel compared to some of the new ones. Same goes for most of the old A/v/P novels. You're best work in said franchise were the team ups with Stephani or Diane, whatever she's going by these days?
I'm looking forward to reading Turnabout to see how you've developed.
I have a question, but it's more of a general question regarding the book publishing process...I'm sure it's been a long time since you were in this situation, so please bare with me...
How exactly does an unknown person, with no connections in the business, get about to having a manuscript published?
What are the steps? Does one need an agent first or do you bring your work straight to a publisher and hope for the best?
Forgive my ignorance on this, but I'm an avid hobby writer and I'm looking to possibly bring it to the next level. Any information you could share with me on this would be greatly appreciated.
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 01, 2007, 09:02:00 PM
You read both scripts? Speaking here as a pro, Cameron's script was better, hands down, across the board, pick a spot.
Depends on two things:
Firstly, whether you mean O'Bannon's script or the Hill/Giler script. If so O'Bannon's, no argument.
Secondly, how you decide to define 'better'.
You may have 30 years' professional credit behind you - I don't even have 30 years of existence behind me, so you pretty solidly win that round - but you still define better as what appeals to you.
So how do we see better in this context? More memorable, or more realistic?
If we're going by more memorable, then certainly. The fantastical will always stick in our mind more than real things will, by and large, and it's almost always more entertaining unless you happen to live with happy drunk acrobatic circus midgets.
Cambo's characters are loud and self-important and spew cheesy one-liners like they were going out of fashion. They carry big guns and use big vehicles and blow shit up constantly. They're the cool people at parties, always entertaining, except for people like Drake and Vasquez who you avoid for fear of your life. Trivial things like physics and logic often take a back seat to the theatrical experience. His movie also leaves you feeling all warm and happy inside because everybody's saved and that annoying little thing called post traumatic stress is just something nasty people tell small children to scare them into being good.
If we look at 'better' as more realistic, then no, Cameron's script isn't better. The characters of
Alien are much more down to earth and life-like. Not every line of dialogue is some memorable one-liner which you can casually drop into a conversation. Reading the script I was given a genuine sense of creeping dread, that things were going from bad to worse and were only going to keep
getting worse until the Alien was dead, or everyone else was. The environment and the technology was given less attention and less of a chance to wander off into fantasy land. It was grounded and, largely, ignored when unneeded.
The script of
Alien actually creeped me out. Even in text form it drew you in with its realistic space truckers and shoved you into their circumstances, and made you, the reader, feel it when bad stuff started happening. Yet the script of
Aliens failed to evoke any emotion at all - Or, in fact, any other script I've ever read.
Quoteyou don't like what I write, no problem.
I liked
Nightmare Asylum ... Some bits I thought could've been left out, but I realise they were necessary to pad out the length. And I've never read anything of yours outside the Alien material, so I can hardly say you're a bad writer.
Quotegiven as how it must be so much superior to what's out there.
Never claimed to be a better writer. But does that mean I should commit genocide before criticising Hitler? I only know one Jew in my area - Would that make a good start?
I do agree with Sil that Alien is more believable, while Cameron's is more fantastical, and with its pacing, much easier to get into.
However, Alien is the superior film, and I don't think its quite the idiot plot that its made out to be and think that Aliens might be slightly MORE guilty of following the idiot plot over Alien.
Nostromo is rerouted to Acheron.
Crew listens to beacon.
Crew force to land or forfeiture of money will occur.
Crew having already been forced planetside, must investigate ship.
Crew pokes around ship under company orders.
*potential idiot plot moment*
Kane pokes around eggs. Gets facehugged.
However, this is something any human with a curious nature could do. I was in the boyscouts at one time. We were ditching our merit badge classes because they were dull and walking around in the woods away from adult authority was rad. We came upon the "carcass" of a wildcat. I hung back, being suburban with country roots, I know a wildcat can mess you up despite its size. Other kids kept going foward. Poked wildcat with stick. I don't know if it was sick, or just old, or injured, but it wasn't dead. We booked.
*potential idiot moment*
Crew lets Kane back on ship. Some crew resist the idea.
It doesn't matter how sick one of your loved ones are. Your going to check on them. Mom has a kid with the flu, she risk exposure to the flu to check on the kid.
*potential idiot moment*
Crew lets Kane live. Attempts to mess with facehugger. It bleeds acid. It's a psychological issue that a person is many times more likely to help a friend or someone in trouble when he's FORCED too because there is nobody else around to put it off on.
Crew decides to leave Ash in charge. Bad idea. But nobody is thinking corporate sabotage at the moment.
Crew eats super. Worse idea. Chestburster pops out. Everybody is "oh shat!" Nobody but the sabotuer suspects anything. But thats the thing with sabotage, you don't know who is doing it, or it wouldn't be sabotage.
*potential idiot moment*
Crew looks for alien. However, when they see it last, its is smaller than my willy. Human overconfidence. Brett is whacked.
*potential idiot moment*
Crew gets nervous, but arm themselves with flamethrowers. Alien shows no need to use technology. Advantage human? No. Dallas is whacked.
*potential idiot moment*
Crew thinks about using the same idea. REALLY BAD IDEA. Unfortunately/fortunately Ripley is spared the trouble when Ash and the company plot are revealed. Ash is wasted. Plans change.
*potential idiot moment*
Going for the kill instead of leaving the romo to drift in space with creature. But we understand this. There is a word for it in the english dictionary. Revenge. And to an extent, to make sure future people don't die like the romo crew. Understandable.
*potential idiot moment A*
Crew splits up. But they have jobs. Lambert and Parker too get coolant for the three of them. Ripley to prep shuttle/self destruct. Understandable as it would move faster, but less numbers proves a disadvantage when the Alien puts itself inbetween Lambert and Parkers flamer. Both are wasted as a result. Plus, ripley no longer needs coolant.
*Potential idiot moment B* Rip goes for the cat. Cat worth human life? Some people think so. But I think that cats resting in peoples laps are a comforting thought, and the cat represented peace and future security. As a symbol I can understand why she went for it.
*Potential idiot moment*
Ripley sees parker and lambert and activates the self destruct. Tries to go to shuttle. Sees Alien (can't shoot because when you burn you DO bleed). Forced back. Goes to turn self destruct off, can't. Runs back to ship. Understandable, what could she have done different? Tried to go to a different deck and climb up/drop down a different way and go from that way? Still would have went to the same place.
*Potential idiot moment*. Ripley assumes creature dead. Not case. Alien lives, but can't kill it because of acid. Blows it out into space. Don't know where she gets backup air, but hey, maybe she needed only enough to get in the cryotube or the ship had more than just recycling air systems.
Fin.
I feel that while some things DO stretch it a bit in the typical horror movie sense (horror characters must act like they haven't seen a horror movie before) most of the time its our own unrealistic expectations that make them seem stupid.
If I'm looking for a cat, and a penis with teeth, I don't expect the penis with teeth to suddenly be eight foot tall.
When I have a flamethrower, the ship has been my home, I don't expect an alien to outflank me.
I don't expect somebody to withold information that would potentially save the crew and undermine my efforts.
I don't expect two people to get whacked at once, when the Alien had established itself as a pattern killer by taking one person earlier in the movie. etc etc etc.
They might not have always been the smartest lot, but they weren't unrealistically stupid either, and not slasher film "idiots." They did the best space truckers could do.
I'll let Sil point out logic gaps in Aliens.
We'd just end up running in circles.
"Idiot plot!"
"Idiot plot!"
"Idiot plot!"
"Idiot plot!"
"I'm a pro writer!"
"Idiot plo ... damn."
Guys lets not be rude about Steve Perry, none of you guys have any published novels.
He is right Aliens is better than Alien, fact!!!
Quote from: To The Death on Nov 02, 2007, 05:16:33 PM
Guys lets not be rude about Steve Perry, none of you guys have any published novels.
He is right Aliens is better than Alien, fact!!!
Opinions aren't facts. It's you're opinion that Aliens is better than Alien. Which I don't agree with.
Don't get me wrong though, both are well made films.
What sparked this was that somebody asked me which of the movies I favored. I offered them up, and why I liked them.
No problem with folks who have different favorites, but trying to convince me that my choices are wrong is a waste of bandwidth.
Ask any writer who has worked in Hollywood at all what an idiot-plot is, and if Alien qualifies. I've talked to more than a few, and that's the consensus. It's a 1930's Universal horror movie, beat-for-beat.
There are conventions in genre writing. Cameron likes science fiction and it shows. O'Bannon has said he doesn't really care for the stuff, and that shows, too. I'm not trying to tell you which movie you should like, only that if you hand the scripts to people who know what the SF conventions are, more of them are going to pick Aliens over Alien. Cameron is better at the form.
Read both scripts, you can't miss it. If you did, you don't know what to look for.
Yeah, you don't need to be a world class gymnast to notice when somebody falls off the bar. But you need to know a lot more about it to be an Olympic judge, and put up a score, than somebody sitting at home watching it on the tube who doesn't know exactly what every deduction is.
I'm not attacking you personally, I'm questioning your credentials. Do you have any that pertain to the subject of writing? I'll stipulate that there are a lot of people out there who know more about the Aliens and the Predators than do I; then again, there aren't a lot of people who have written more about them than I and been considered worth publishing. Not a brag, just how it is.
So, do I believe my opinion on this outweighs yours? Yep ...
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 01, 2007, 11:05:48 PM
Think it comes from the fact that your Alien novels are old. And with that age comes the blandness in your writing. Looking back, Earth Hive isn't a very inspired or well written novel compared to some of the new ones. Same goes for most of the old A/v/P novels. You're best work in said franchise were the team ups with Stephani or Diane, whatever she's going by these days?
I'm looking forward to reading Turnabout to see how you've developed.
Save your money. If you didn't like the old ones, I wouldn't expect you to like the new one.
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 02, 2007, 07:47:12 PM
There are conventions in genre writing.
Read both scripts, you can't miss it. If you did, you don't know what to look for.
Since I do not know what these conventions are...could you elaborate on this a bit? How did O'Bannon miss them? Or how did Cameron hit closer to mark?
Thanks in advance.
Wait, wait -- Since when did following genre conventions start being seen as a good thing?
And why is it all sweet and neat when Cameron follows science fiction conventions, yet a bad thing when O'Bannon and co. follow horror movie conventions?
Quote from: SiL on Nov 02, 2007, 08:16:44 PM
Wait, wait -- Since when did following genre conventions start being seen as a good thing?
And why is it all sweet and neat when Cameron follows science fiction conventions, yet a bad thing when O'Bannon and co. follow horror movie conventions?
All good genre stories can be explained with one line. Eight words. You know what that line is?
Knowing this and how to use it properly is not only a good thing, it's the only thing.
If you step away from what is acceptable story-telling -- form, format, areas of conflict, characters, resolution, your story falls flat and nobody wants to read it. You know what the three basic plots are? The three kinds of conflict? How a three-act structure works?
Horror movie conventions are fine, if you are making a horror movie. If it is supposed to be a science fiction picture -- you know, space ship, aliens, other worlds -- then you have to speak to those aspects, otherwise, why set it there? Why not just make it a trapped-in-a-haunted-mansion story? Then it becomes The House on Haunted Hill, or maybe even Mary Roberts Rinehart's "The Bat." Good scary stuff. Not science fiction.
In A2, the science is part of the movie. The reason the marines have to rack their guns. The reason the corporation is there. That they could find Ripley years afterward. The story works on an SF level. That's because Cameron knows the form and likes it, and O'Bannon doesn't.
In A1, other than that the thing is set on a spaceship, it's a gotcha-movie, and the science isn't necessary because you could have made exactly the same movie on Earth, circa 1935. Just substitute a werewolf for the alien, there it is.
Is it scary? Oh, yeah. It works. But it's not good science fiction. A2 isn't the acme of the genre either, but it's much better.
If you knew this stuff, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Quote from: Gates on Nov 02, 2007, 12:07:24 AM
I have a question, but it's more of a general question regarding the book publishing process...I'm sure it's been a long time since you were in this situation, so please bare with me...
How exactly does an unknown person, with no connections in the business, get about to having a manuscript published?
What are the steps? Does one need an agent first or do you bring your work straight to a publisher and hope for the best?
Forgive my ignorance on this, but I'm an avid hobby writer and I'm looking to possibly bring it to the next level. Any information you could share with me on this would be greatly appreciated.
If you want to write an original story or novel in a genre, you write it, make it as good as you can. Some markets will accept it over the transom, some won't. Pick up a copy of Writers Markets and it details how to submit material, what form it needs to be in, and how to go about getting an agent. There are places online you can learn about agents. Generally, if you want one, you send a query letter to somebody on the list who is taking new clients. You tell them who you are and what you have written, and what you want them to read. If they are interested, they'll have you send it to them. If they like it and think they can sell it, they will agree to represent you. Having an agent makes it easier, but it's no guarantee of a sale.
If you are looking to write in a shared-universe, like Aliens or Star Trek or Star Wars, it's a buyer's market. A lot of folks want to work there, and the publishers can pick and choose. Almost always, they pick writers who have other credits in the field. That way, they know they are hiring somebody who has an idea of how to work on a book, can finish it, and knows how to deal with deadlines and rewrites.
Most of the Aliens/Predator writers have science fiction and fantasy credits. Even somebody like John Shirley, who does a lot of horror, has written a bunch of SF.
Best way to get into that arena is to write your own original material, get it read and published, and then have your agent ask the powers-that-be if they'd consider you as a writer.
Newbies with no pro credits rarely ever get hired to do shared-world material. There are risks in working with total newbies. Most publishers don't want to take those on.
I haven't read any of your novels so far, but did you invent any new Predator weapons? Also, have you progressed what Predators can do (show different behaviour etc?)
I do know it, but I still think it's crap.
The fact Alien takes its futuristic technology for granted makes it all the more realistic. It doesn't beat you over the head with the flashy doo-dads like Aliens does; you're on a space ship, in space, there's a lot of retro-lookin' technology around, let's get on with it.
Alien was a horror movie first and foremost, so it plays to those conventions. Why bother setting it in a space ship? Why not? The science fiction element allows for such great exotic locales such as LV-426 and the derelict, things which burned in our memories forever, and things which you couldn't get in a haunted house. Frankenstein's pad was funky in the 30s, but it's been done - You want pretty locations, look to the stars.
Even then, what do you see as science-fiction conventions? If we follow the conventions laid down by the 50s Cold War sci-fi schlock, Alien is essentially one great big amalgam of everything that came before it. Look at It! The Terror From Beyond Space, The Thing From Another World, Forbidden Planet - Alien takes from all of them, not to mention the incredibly long list of other pulp and classic sf and horror.
Aliens was a war movie and a science fiction film, and Cameron decided to balance them both. Alien was a horror movie and a science fiction film, and played up the horror aspects moreso than the sci-fi ones. How is it worse than Aliens for doing that? Typically people applaud those who shy away from conventions and try to do something at least a little unique, not say they're a failure at what they never truly set out to do.
Alien wanted to scare the shit out of you, and it did. And iin that regard, above all others, it was perfectly written.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 02, 2007, 09:44:10 PM
I do know it, but I still think it's crap.
No, you
don't know, you don't have a clue. If you did, we wouldn't be having this debate. You're blowing smoke and waving mirrors, but it isn't working. You might be able to fool a lot of folks here, but I ain't one of 'em.
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 02, 2007, 07:49:13 PM
Save your money. If you didn't like the old ones, I wouldn't expect you to like the new one.
Never said I didn't like them all. Only the first and that's due to it's age showing. I tend to find that older novels don't feel as fresh. I rather enjoyed Nightmare Asylum but then, that's the only other Alien/Predator novel you didn't write with your daughter. So...*shrugs*
Don't you think you've evolved as a writer over the years? And besides, I wont be paying for it. Press copy.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 01, 2007, 11:05:48 PM
Think it comes from the fact that your Alien novels are old. And with that age comes the blandness in your writing. Looking back, Earth Hive isn't a very inspired or well written novel compared to some of the new ones. Same goes for most of the old A/v/P novels. You're best work in said franchise were the team ups with Stephani or Diane, whatever she's going by these days?
I'm looking forward to reading Turnabout to see how you've developed.
Let me ask you a question: I dunno what kind of work you do, but for the sake of argument, suppose you like doing it, and you think you are good at it. Suppose somebody shows up at your job and tells you that what you do is bland, uninspired, and badly-executed. But that they'll check back later to see if you've gotten any better.
You gonna be thrilled to hear that? Gonna make your day better, you think?
You figure that kind of comment is apt to get you to consider what else he might have to say in a particularly good light?
I mean, yeah, I think I'm a better writer now than I used to be. Then again, when I look back a few years, I don't consider the books I did bland, uninspired, or poorly-written. Of course, I wouldn't. And I don't see anything there to apologize for.
Telling a writer, "Hey, you used to do crappy work but I'm looking forward to seeing if you have gotten any better." I can't see any way to take that as any kind of compliment.
As with SiL, you are certainly allowed to like stuff or not; and allow to say so in public. But even though most writers develop a thick-skin over the years. offering disrespect for their skill isn't the way to gain their affection ...
And it's "Danelle ..."
With age comes experience. I used to write fanfiction as a kid. I've also spent the last few years writing scripts - It's what I'd like to do, be a TV writer - and I shall freely admit that my first attempt sucked ass. But over time, I got better. It's inevitable for anything. I am by no means calling you an awful writer, I'm saying I didn't enjoy you're first entry into the franchise as I did the rest you wrote. You obviously round you're ground with Nightmare Asylum and very much left your mark with Prey.
It's like...say, you know Star Trek right, you've seen it? Well, on average it's taken each show 3 seasons to find it's ground. To find it's place of comfort. Since when do people get it right on the first attempt?
Thing is, I had experience before I wrote the first Aliens novel. I had almost a score of novels published.
And yeah, I was working with the comics, and that required I stick fairly close to them, to keep Fox happy, so there were some constraints, but I'm not blaming anybody for what showed up in the books.
I was pleased with how they came out. So were my editors, Dark Horse, and Fox. It got me more work, some of it very high profile.
Taste is what it is, and I'm the last guy to tell you you should or shouldn't like something. A lot of folks enjoyed those early Alien novels. My mail/email ran nine-to-one in favor, those who did and those who didn't. So nine out of ten, I'm happy with that. Can't please everybody.
If you want to be a writer, you need to choose your words with care. Saying you don't like something is one thing; outright insults are something else. You might not have meant that, but that's how it came across. If you didn't, fine. If you did, that's okay, too.
Better to know to whom you are talking than not.
Of course I didn't mean it as an insult. The internet is horrible for such interpretations. Like I said, I enjoyed Nightmare Asylum alot. In your opinion, what do you think of Earth Hive, looking back at it now and comparing it to the other Alien novels you did.
I mean, surely different things effect how the novel turns out. For example. Genocide, the 4th novel. I love it. It's one of my favorite Alien novels. But Hunters Planet, which Bischoff did too, is IMHO the worse Alien/Predator novel there is. One author, two books, two totally different opinions.
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 02, 2007, 11:43:53 PM
offering disrespect for their skill isn't the way to gain their affection ...
I was offering no disrespect for the profession itself. I like writing, I know writers.
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 02, 2007, 09:59:22 PM
No, you don't know, you don't have a clue.
Here we've got option A and option B, and I've never heard someone say option B was better than option A because of how closely it follows one set of conventions, while in the same breath tearing down option A for its use of a different set of conventions, while ignoring the fact that it still follows a different subset of the same type of conventions used in option B.
I'm not saying you should think
Alien is better than its sequel, but I
am asking for something a little bit more than 'I'm a writer, I've asked writers, of course
we know, please shut up'. Even if it's just an elaboration of what you mean for those of us who aren't privileged enough to be let into the great wealth of knowledge that comes from being published, so that I could at least understand where the heck it is you're coming from.
The whole argument seems very ill-defined anyway. You seem to be looking at it from which script is a better
science fiction movie - I'm looking at it from the perspective of which is just plain better written, genre be damned.
I'm not attacking you, Mr Perry; just confused as hell about where you're coming from.
SiL --
You haven't demonstrated that you know what science fiction is, much what constitutes good science fiction. Nor have you shown me that you know enough about the craft of writing to be expounding on what genres are, and how best to serve the material. Those eight words? You want to tell me what they are? Simple. You've said you know this stuff but consider it crap. I don't believe you know it. Simple.
As far as I'm able to tell, most of the writers who have written either the comics or the novels have background in science fiction and fantasy. That's who they hire, because that's the audience.
Yeah, John Shirley writes a lot of horror, but he's also written reams of science fiction.
If your cat has kittens in the oven, that doesn't make them biscuits. Calling a rabbit a smerp doesn't make it an alien. Dressing a western up in science fiction clothes makes it a Bat Durston story, not science fiction. (I'll wait while you go check the wiki ...)
Star Wars is not science fiction. Star Trek ... ? Iffy, at best. Wagon train in space. The first Alien movie is not science fiction, for reasons I've already laid out -- if you can remove the science and still works just fine, it's not science fiction, its something else in skiffy drag. And it only works because the players always make the wrong choice, every time.
Anybody living the real world, soon as they realize there's a nine-foot-tall monster on the ship killing people is not going to go about their jobs like usual. If one of them needs to pee, they all go pee.
Nobody goes off alone to let the monster chow down unless they are idiots. That's the horror movie convention. You start rooting for the monster because the people are too stupid to live!
That you didn't know what the difference between science fiction, fantasy and horror were until I just pointed it out tells me that you aren't the guy to be offering literary advice. You know what you like, fine, welcome to say so. You don't know how to write at a professional level, and without that kind of craft, anything you have to say about it is theoretical, and needs to be taken with a boxcar of salt.
No shame in ignorance, that's easy to cure. Pretending to knowledge you don't have? That's just bullshit, and in this arena, I know it when I hear it ...
Quote from: War Wager on Nov 02, 2007, 09:43:55 PM
I haven't read any of your novels so far, but did you invent any new Predator weapons? Also, have you progressed what Predators can do (show different behaviour etc?)
Can't say that I came up with any new toys. I did lay out the yautja with my daughter and people have played with that since, but the next novel doesn't go down that road.
Only other novel to use them was War, the true sequel to Prey.
Okay, now care to answer why the film's poorly written?
You can remove the science? Alright. You can do that for Aliens, too.
You've yet to explain why you think it's poorly written outside the fact it's a horror movie dressed up different. And even then you've yet to explain how that, in itself, is bad.
No doubt Alien has its share of stupid character moments. But they had their reason. And reasons that were used well enough too cover the stupidity of their actions. They weren't the characters in Halloween or Freddy that I feel were stupid (lets pass out on the front porch with a madman stalking the streets). I did root for Freddy/Jason/Meyers in that series, but not so much the original film.
That said, Cameron ALSO gave his characters a reason to cover their stupid actions. Overreliance on tech, and overconfidence in that tech to be the primary reasons. Yet I don't hear many people calling actions like leaving your only link (dropship) to the Sulaco undefended "stupid" when your comrades deaths are being broadcast over air, or the fact Ripley went back to the colony with the Company stupid, or the fact that Apone is trying to follow the orders of an incompetent commander so intently he's dropped by an Alien (ask my WWII vet Grandfather how that REALLY would've went down:f**k him, we are leaving), or the fact that despite listening to both Ripley and her disc, the characters still unleash loads of ammunition at targets still near friendlies knowing the creatures were full of acid.
If you look past the characters logic, and boil down how the plot works, of course its going to look formulatic. But thats the thing with writing and film, you cover that up with the actions of the characters, give them motives as to why they act that way, etc etc etc. Simply adding for the effect of fear on the human psyche can cover up alot of bullshit actions by the characters. How many completely lucid people do you see walk away from a car wreck? As long as the reasons for their actions can be explained with any sort of validity, I feel the "idiot plot" tag is a little out there.
The overreliance on tech is a theme directly carried over from the first film. The only two characters with a military history left after Kane burst are subsequently the only two people that attack the Alien head on until Ripley finishes it off in Alien. As a writer, you don't think the fact that they were former military had anything to do with their mindset? It helps explain the rationale behind Dallas and Parker's motives don't you think?
And there are plenty of times in Aliens the, "You don't go anywhere alone," incident happens as well. Ferro and Spunkmeyer in the dropship. Ripley's initial forays into the vents, Burke's trying to escape from the marines and Aliens (as well as his sabotage with the facehuggers), etc etc etc.
Since both films are identified as being cross genre (and I'm not pulling that out of my ass, check the critic reviews on imdb, or the page for the movies themselves), you can't judge them souly as science fiction/horror films.
They all have elements of thrillers, fantasy, drama, comedy (in Alien Res's case) as well as horror and science fiction.
I would actually go so far as to say that the Alien series is actually "hard" science fantasy. Since bad technology (evidenced in every movie INCLUDING Aliens) takes a backseat to human/creature interaction and interpersonal conflicts.
Of course, I wouldn't think it, but this is looking at it from a film students perspective, maybe we look at it differently since we see written stories translated on film. Our terminology might be different from that of the stories that are told on paper.
You, uh, were going to demonstrate some knowledge for us? Those eight words?
The audience is listening ...
And waiting ...
We can sit here and nitpick every scene in the first two Aliens movies to a fare-the-well and come up with our interpretation of who did what and why.
I maintain that Aliens is a horror movie thinly-disguised as science fiction and nobody has said anything there that convinces me otherwise.
A2, while not perfect, is a science fiction picture because the science that is in it is more intrinsic to the story.
The intent of the writers and marketing folks was to sell these as science fiction from the git-go. Remember the first ad campaign? In space, nobody can hear you scream? Take out the science, it will play just as well as a werewolf or vampire flick set in a mansion on an island with no way off.
In A2, if you take out the science, there's no movie. No Ripley in suspended animation, no corporation looking for a war toy, no atomic-powered plant terraforming a planet's atmosphere, no marines who have gone on bug hunts. A1 is a ship -- a truck. A2 has a much more viable backstory, planets, a galactic civilization and they are part of the tale.
A2 is, by anybody who knows SF, a science fiction story. That's why I liked it better than A1, which was a gotcha movie. I didn't believe for a second that even movie-real people would behave that way. Past a certain point, I couldn't buy the reason -- not once they had some idea of what they were up against.
There was no reason compelling enough to go down a corridor alone. Not for me as a watcher or a writer.
None of these people ever saw a horror movie? Would you have done what they did? No, because you have seen horror movies.
Like that scene in a vampire flick where the cops find a body. All drained of blood, two little holes in its neck, and the idea of it being a vampire never crosses anybody's mind. C'mon. It doesn't have to be real, but it has to sound real -- what, nobody in the movieland ever saw a Dracula movie?
Like I said, what works for you is your business. A1 had a scary monster, and I was rooting for it because I was not convinced the people it was killing had any reason to be alive except for that.
Theres always a price for what you want.
But I never believed that anyways. I'm a horror AND scifi fan. I'm not turned off by the fact that Alien is a horror movie and turned on by the fact that Aliens attempts to be harder science fiction, and think that most people are like that. I've found stories to like out of every genre. The people turned off of a movie just because it has a romance/action/horror tag could be missing out on a once and a lifetime thing.
Think about missing star wars or the like.
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 03, 2007, 01:32:24 AM
We can sit here and nitpick every scene in the first two Aliens movies to a fare-the-well and come up with our interpretation of who did what and why.
I maintain that Aliens is a horror movie thinly-disguised as science fiction and nobody has said anything there that convinces me otherwise.
A2, while not perfect, is a science fiction picture because the science that is in it is more intrinsic to the story.
The intent of the writers and marketing folks was to sell these as science fiction from the git-go. Remember the first ad campaign? In space, nobody can hear you scream? Take out the science, it will play just as well as a werewolf or vampire flick set in a mansion on an island with no way off.
In A2, if you take out the science, there's no movie. No Ripley in suspended animation, no corporation looking for a war toy, no atomic-powered plant terraforming a planet's atmosphere, no marines who have gone on bug hunts. A1 is a ship -- a truck. A2 has a much more viable backstory, planets, a galactic civilization and they are part of the tale.
A2 is, by anybody who knows SF, a science fiction story. That's why I liked it better than A1, which was a gotcha movie. I didn't believe for a second that even movie-real people would behave that way. Past a certain point, I couldn't buy the reason -- not once they had some idea of what they were up against.
There was no reason compelling enough to go down a corridor alone. Not for me as a watcher or a writer.
None of these people ever saw a horror movie? Would you have done what they did? No, because you have seen horror movies.
Like that scene in a vampire flick where the cops find a body. All drained of blood, two little holes in its neck, and the idea of it being a vampire never crosses anybody's mind. C'mon. It doesn't have to be real, but it has to sound real -- what, nobody in the movieland ever saw a Dracula movie?
Like I said, what works for you is your business. A1 had a scary monster, and I was rooting for it because I was not convinced the people it was killing had any reason to be alive except for that.
I feel where your coming from, but again, you said it yourself. Different interpretation. There is plenty of things to suggest that man was feeling pretty immortal about himself in the original movie. Just by judging from the dialogue we knew that societal prejudices were alive and well. Parker had to act in the typical black male fashion to talk to ripley, despite being attracted to her.
Most people don't pick up that kind of stuff, but its there (and I'm not questioning your perception, that kind of stuff doesn't resonate to everybody). If you have a whole society that has been led to believe YOUR the biggest baddest mofo in the galaxy and that your tech makes you superior, thats a hard thing to get over, regardless of what monster movies you've seen. Look at the completely nonchalant way they talk about getting the pecker with teeth. They simply think it poses no threat. They are going to catch it.........with a net!
Now again, maybe thats not good enough for you. But I felt that the writers had covered enough of their bases so that the characters weren't completely stupid, but I always had less trouble accepting the majority of their actions in the first film over Ripley's decision to go back in the second. Nightmares would be better than actually getting killed imo. But hey, thats the difference between people.
I'm not trying to come off arrogant (even though people always tell me I am) or mean, I'm just a dude, that can't type fast and cuts through bullshit to make a point.
I LIKE that you post here, and think your opinions are interesting because you are one of the few writers on the board. I'm in no way trying to be snotty and wringing my hands in a, "I can make an author quit the interwebz!" kind of way.
Feel me?
Hi Steve,
I have a couple of questions for ya, but first, I want to say that I loved AVP:Prey.
Here are my questions:
1. When you watched the first AVP movie, were you hoping Lex would join the Predator clan, like Machiko did in the original comic and AVP: Prey?
2. Without giving away any info, do you have any ideas for future AVP novels, if given the opportunity to write more AVP novels?
3. Could the Space Jockey species ever fit in the AVP universe?
4. What do you think of a Terminator vs Predator story?
5. Have you seen the Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem trailers and the IGN clip? What are you thoughts on them?
6. What are your thoughts on the PredAlien (aka "Chet"), from the trailers and photos released so far?
Thank you for taking the time in answering our questions. I can't wait for Predator: Turnabout.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Nov 03, 2007, 01:36:36 AM
Theres always a price for what you want.
But I never believed that anyways. I'm a horror AND scifi fan. I'm not turned off by the fact that Alien is a horror movie and turned on by the fact that Aliens attempts to be harder science fiction, and think that most people are like that. I've found stories to like out of every genre. The people turned off of a movie just because it has a romance/action/horror tag could be missing out on a once and a lifetime thing.
Think about missing star wars or the like.
But I didn't miss out on it. I saw the original Alien in a theatre. And it was scary. But I went expecting a horse of a slightly different color and that matters. And as a viewer, I need to believe in the characters in order to feel for them if they get in trouble. For me, O'Bannon didn't do nearly as good a job as Cameron. Ripley in A2? Better motivations for what she did. Going back for Newt is not the same as going back for the cat -- not for me.
And when Ripley came out of the hold in the fork-lift suit? People
cheered in the theater where I saw it. That's who they wanted to be their Mama, somebody who would come back to save them, and did. That was a feel-good moment.
There weren't any like that in A1 for me.
So that eight letter phrase wasn't it?
Thats the one I'd heard growing up from my mom *whose an english lit teacher* because you run the risk of putting off writers just because of the genre tag.
Hence people not liking horror movie conventions not going to see the movie.
What else could it be. *racks brain*
As for Ripley saving the cat. Kinda different imo. She hears cat. Goes to find it. Probably trying to rationalize that everybody but Kane was killed in the darkness, then goes to find parker/lambert after their whacked, leaving the cat. Then goes to leave and sees the alien. Leaving the cat.
The third time she gets it, its never moved, its just in the exit way. But I understand your take on it.
I decided to go out and look for information from someone who knew what they were talking about.
So I went to the library and found
The Science of Science Fiction Writing by James Gunn. This guy wrote his master's thesis in 1951; he wrote a four-volume anthology on the subject; the book was written in 2000. I'd say his 50-plus years of study, at the time, on the subject matter would be a wee bit more authoritative when trying to find a definition of the genre than my vicarious experiences on the matter and your considerable 30 year publication history.
In his chapter defining what science fiction is, he comes to the conclusion that the difference between science fiction and fantasy is that fantasy invents its own world and/or rules - Vampires, werewolves, ghosts,
Lord of the Rings - whereas science fiction is a continuity of the real world into the unknown, which responds to the laws of the real world.
Don't ask how Alice can go through a mirror into the world beyond. Feel free to ask how the guys stay on the floor in
2001: A Space Odyssey.
On this front
Alien is undoubtedly science fiction. You can ask it 'real' questions and it can still stand up; a cursory glance at the fan-made
Anchorpoint Essays shows just how technical you can get with the Alien creature itself; Ron Cobb's design notes explain, for the most part, how every aspect of the ship and human technology actually works.
True, the film doesn't dwell on technicalities. Ash's technobabble on his observations on the Alien is about as technical as it gets, but the film still allows you to ask questions about it within the context of reality without having to resort to fantasy.
But;
QuoteNo Ripley in suspended animation
What about the crew of the Nostromo in suspended animation?
Quoteno corporation looking for a war toy
You seem to have confused
Aliens with either
Alien or
Alien 3. The Company wasn't looking for the Alien in
Aliens - Burke was. He made it very clear he was doing the whole thing for personal gain, and not for the Company itself.
In that regard,
Aliens more closely follows the mad individual seeking the monster. Would you say that in
Alien, without science fiction there could be no Company?
That's an honest question - The Company's role was much larger in
Alien, even if it was only ever
mentioned, through its external influence of the plot. With no Company,
Alien never happens. With no Company, Burke is still out to make himself rich.
Quoteno atomic-powered plant terraforming a planet's atmosphere
No exploration of a hostile alien planet in
Alien - No suit? You freeze, you can't breathe, goodbye.
The atmosphere processor was a means to an end; you could just have the characters in a location that already had a breathable atmosphere.
Quoteno marines who have gone on bug hunts.
With the term 'bug hunt' never being define; you could still have the marines be battle hardened and cocky.
QuoteA1 is a ship -- a truck.
And yet, at the same time, so much more.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 03, 2007, 03:37:54 AM
QuoteNo Ripley in suspended animation
What about the crew of the Nostromo in suspended animation?
Wasn't necessary. Could have just as easily started with them awake. They threw it in to show they were in the future. Wasn't necessary to the plot at all.
Quoteno corporation looking for a war toy
You seem to have confused
Aliens with either
Alien or
Alien 3. The Company wasn't looking for the Alien in
Aliens - Burke was. He made it very clear he was doing the whole thing for personal gain, and not for the Company itself.[/quote]
And you believed that?
Never mind. I'm going to change your opinion because you don't want to hear it, and you aren't gonna change mine because you don't have the wherewithal. We're done. You want to take another shot, have at it. You haven't hit anything yet, I can't say I'm at all worried you will ...
I was never trying to change your opinion, just understand the reasoning. Except the reasoning didn't particularly make sense; the technology can be stripped away from Aliens just as much as it can with Alien. All the examples you pointed out of what couldn't be taken out of Aliens without affecting the movie, as I showed, could be, just as much as they could with the original film.
And when I defined science fiction, you didn't comment, but shrugged the entire thing off as 'Yeah, well, whatever, you don't have anything to hit me with and you just don't want to hear it'. I gave a level ground to define sci-fi - Which is incredibly difficult to define in the first place - and then it all gets down to 'meh'.
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Nov 03, 2007, 01:49:31 AM
Hi Steve,
I have a couple of questions for ya, but first, I want to say that I loved AVP:Prey.
Here are my questions:
1. When you watched the first AVP movie, were you hoping Lex would join the Predator clan, like Machiko did in the original comic and AVP: Prey?
2. Without giving away any info, do you have any ideas for future AVP novels, if given the opportunity to write more AVP novels?
3. Could the Space Jockey species ever fit in the AVP universe?
4. What do you think of a Terminator vs Predator story?
5. Have you seen the Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem trailers and the IGN clip? What are you thoughts on them?
6. What are your thoughts on the PredAlien (aka "Chet"), from the trailers and photos released so far?
Thank you for taking the time in answering our questions. I can't wait for Predator: Turnabout.
When I saw AvP, I wished they'd used the graphic novels/novelization as a basis for the script. I wasn't too thrilled with the story they did use.
I haven't thought about doing more Aliens, Predators, or AvP's -- I have other projects lined up. Haven't considered Space Jockey/Terminator tie-ins at all.
From the clips I've seen of the trailers, the new movie looks to be violent, gory, and not rmuch to the story. The trailers are almost all action.
I worry that, as in a lot of movie trailers, once you have seen them, you have essentially seen the movie. If the plot is that the yautja crash land near a remote town and a bunch of aliens get loose and everybody runs around slaughtering everybody else and the U.S. military moves in and eventually nukes the place, the acting and writing and editing are going to have to be really good, because that's what they will have.
Just as all people don't look exactly alike, I have no problem with the yautja not all looking exactly alike.
At the risk of pissing off people, anybody who gets all bent out of shape because they liked the first Predator's look and hate the new one needs to get a life. In the grand cosmic scheme of things, it doesn't matter to me. It's just a movie.
SiL: Oh, and James Gunn's idea of what science fiction is? His, and not what most of us who work in the field use. He's a nice guy and a good writer, but he just picked a place to stand, and since he's an academic, made it more complex than it needed to be. Generally accepted definition is that science fiction is a particular form of fantasy in which the science is a necessary part of the story. That's what I posted, and that you didn't seem to think it was valid? No surprise.
It needs science in it. If the science isn't necessary for the story to work, it isn't science fiction. Which part of that do you have trouble understanding?
I know you SiL. You like to argue for its own sake, and you could just as easily take the other side and put forth as much passion. Blowin' and goin', the process and not the end. I expect I could have said the sun rises in the east and you would have argued that it doesn't. You need to get a life past the Aliens/Predator stories. There's a lot more out there and you haven't scratched the surface, but I'm done trying to educate you.
Adios.
Have you ever thought about writing scripts?
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 03, 2007, 04:46:55 PM
Which part of that do you have trouble understanding?
The part where you think that applies to
Aliens.
QuoteYou like to argue for its own sake, and you could just as easily take the other side and put forth as much passion.
Not at all. I'd rather not argue, but I do find seeing how the movies could be done in different genres interesting, and looking at how, by your definition, the only Alien movie that's truly science fiction is
Alien Resurrection.
Steve im half way done with your new star wars book Deathstar and so far im really liking it(shadows of the Empire is one of my favorites along with Zahns trilogy), i know this is an avp site, but do you have anyother Star Wars books planned for the future?
Steve,
Thank you very much for answering my questions. I really appreciate it.
Quote from: echobbase79 on Nov 03, 2007, 04:52:17 PM
Have you ever thought about writing scripts?
Why yes, yes he has.
If memory serves, don't you (Perry) have one or two floating around at the moment? Or I'm I thinking of someone else? Fairly sure it was you.
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Nov 03, 2007, 01:49:31 AM
6. What are your thoughts on the PredAlien (aka "Chet"), from the trailers and photos released so far?
I'd like to know your opinions on Chet too...
Wow. I totally missed this discussion. Guess it's not too late, after all. :)
A belated welcome, Steve! I still have 'Earth Hive' and 'Nightmare Asylum' and think they were superb adaptations of the source material.
On the other hand, I eventually came to really detest all the 'Yautja' stuff, but as we would both agree; to each their own. :) I suppose it comes down more to what the fans eventually did with it: Turn the Predators from sadistic galactic hunters into what can best be described as Viking Samurai. Of course, the contemporary version of what Klingons and Ferengi are, happen to be far removed from their original concepts, so it does happen.
I would like to thank you, in a way, for bringing up something eartlier to light. I, too, was really struck by that 'the love of God' line Cameron put in the script. I had forgotten about it. You brought it back for me. :) It is a really powerful line and those sorts of motivations, never seen by the viewer and yet which, nevertheless, find their way into how characters react in stories, are precisely the type of thing I learnt to place in my own scripts, when I write them.
We seem to mostly agree on 'Aliens' having more entertainment value, for us, personally, than 'Alien' and I agree about the 'idiot plot' thing. Scott even admitted that, in at least one interview. It's particularly obvious at times such as when Ripley goes for her cat. However, my preference for the two films is a very fine line and I came to appreciate the original much more, as years went by.
I'd disagree with you on the Aliens' intelligence level, of course. They've shown a very high level of cunning and one of the things I like about 'Aliens' is that, although it has a superficial level, it also has a deeper one. Those who look at it, at first glance, can assume hundreds of the things are getting blown away, yet, later on, the motion tracker shows tons of them still very much active. It has that rewatchability factor so crucial to the making of a classic.
I'd like to ask you, if I may, what gave you the inspiration for your version of General Spears. You added things to him which were never in the graphic novel and rounded him out a lot more. The flashbacks to his early life, in particular, with his first sexual experience going some way to shaping his outlook on things, were an interesting way of bringing that sort of stuff out. Did you have in mind a certain historical character to help you with that sort of stuff or was it just a matter of looking at the comic and then throwing in some spontaneous ideas?
If you had the chance, would a future novel of yours bring back the horrific concept of transforming people into eggs, in order to obtain a Queen facehugger? I've often been compelled by that idea, as have many others and thought it a shame 'Alien 3' never used it.
If you were given a blank slate and told, "Ignore all the graphic novels, book adaptations of your own and other authors'. We want to go from scratch." Would you still have followed the idea of Predators using Aliens for hunts or would you have them meeting in a completely different way?
One of the original ideas for the Alien was that they have arisen into their own technological and highly advanced civilisation. That the eggs found were merely examples of them removed from their own society. As a writer, would this idea appeal to you, in terms of exploring it? Or would you prefer for the creatures to remain as removed from technology as possible?
Finally, if you were asked to, would you dare to write a deliberate parody involving these creatures or would you hate to see someone even attempt to do such a thing? :)
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 04, 2007, 07:37:42 AM
If you were given a blank slate and told, "Ignore all the graphic novels, book adaptations of your own and other authors'. We want to go from scratch." Would you still have followed the idea of Predators using Aliens for hunts or would you have them meeting in a completely different way?
It's what DH Press do do. Tell them to ignore everything else. I only wish they'd have some continuity between their own novels. I always loved that sense of connection in Bantam's novels.
Yeah, I've written few spec scripts. None have made it onto the silver screen. One I did with Chris Warner got bought but a screw-up on the timing got it shelved; I'm working on a couple with Mike Richardson at Dark Horse that might eventually amount to something. We'll see.
Look of the new Predators, I spoke to earlier in the thread.
I used to belong to a book club and I was amazed at what people sometimes said they saw in books that I had read and didn't see there. Everybody has an axe to grind on some level, and they carry it with them, including me. It just happens, I'm not as invested in some things as others, and that my axe, when it comes to writing, has had more than a little use and I feel comfortable honing it to keep doing so.
When I said the alien drones were as smart as German Shepherds, that's what I meant. If you have ever been to a dog herding or agility competition, you'd see they are capable of all kinds of things that Rover lying over there on the couch doesn't demonstrate.
Wolves are even smarter, according to everything I know.
But dogs don't drive cars real well, or make informed life-choices, and save for the Queens, I never saw or heard of aliens doing anything a pack of wolves couldn't do. The yautja have FTL space ships that they run, which makes them as smart as humans -- or smarter -- and are way ahead of us technologically because they had them far enough back to be hunting humans who were armed with flintlocks.
Other than breeding more of themselves, I haven't seen evidence of any kind of Alien culture higher than that of wasps. Arguments about aliens being smarter than predators? Please. No evidence for it.
I've always believed the xenomorphs were war toys, biological weapons, and the breeders, whoever they were, made them just smart enough to do their job. Me, I'd have put a clock in them so after a certain number of reproduction cycles, they'd die off, Hayflick out, and leave the real estate empty.
Who created them? No idea. How'd the Predators get them for training hunts? Came across them and collected a few samples. I could come up with several scenarios that would work for me.
When I pitched a new idea to DH for the Predator novel, they didn't put any limits on it, save that they don't want to get back into the yautja stuff. If I had to guess, I'd say that came from Fox, who still has to approve all the novels.
Any time I was novelizing a graphic story, that was the spine. What got hung on it to make it more like a book and less like a comic was what I thought people would want to know, so since few of the characters had any background, I gave them some. Nature of the form. Book readers only word-pictures, and they want a little more depth. No particular models, just stuff I (or my daughter) made up.
I have a new Star Wars novel idea with Reaves we're pitching, either it will sell or it won't. And no plans to get back in the A, P, or AvP universe any time soon, but I haven't burned that bridge behind me. Never know what might happen.
Can't ignore what has gone before, what is lore and even canon in a shared-universe, so the idea of what I'd do starting from scratch isn't realistic -- we're well past scratch ...
Yeah, I've written few spec scripts. None have made it onto the silver screen. One I did with Chris Warner got bought but a screw-up on the timing got it shelved; I'm working on a couple with Mike Richardson at Dark Horse that might eventually amount to something. We'll see.
What were the properties? Dark Horse started their on movie production company I believe. They recently released a new movie called Driftwood. Are these scripts under this company?
Quote
What were the properties? Dark Horse started their on movie production company I believe. They recently released a new movie called Driftwood. Are these scripts under this company?
The one with Chris was based on his comic, Black Cross. That was a Touchstone deal but the lead actor and producer got crosswise -- actor was a sportscaster and had to get back to his day job, something the producer apparently spaced on when setting up the shoot schedule.
The others are original ideas, two horror, one a coming-of-age story with a ghost. The horror stories, one is a haunted house, the other about a psychotic killer -- latter is now a DH comic mini-series, "The Secret." If either of these make it to production, dunno who the company will be. DH Entertainment has deals with several, and will be doing their own low-budget films eventually.
That's sportscaster didn't happen to be howie long was it. I know he did some acting for a little while.
Have you ever been interested in the Timecop series they did? They're remaking it I believe under their new production company.
Quote from: echobbase79 on Nov 04, 2007, 08:30:48 PM
That's sportscaster didn't happen to be howie long was it. I know he did some acting for a little while.
Have you ever been interested in the Timecop series they did? They're remaking it I believe under their new production company.
Yep, it was Howie. They somehow forgot he had to be back at work in the fall and scheduled the shoot then. He had another movie he couldn't get out of, so ours went belly up, but since he had a pay-or-play deal, he got his money anyhow. How it goes in La-La-Land.
My daughter did the novelization for the Timecop movie, and I helped her out a little on it. Didn't think much of the muscles from Brussell's acting talent, and the idea is real old -- Heinlein wrote a short story in the late 1950's "All you Zombies" which was way more clever in dealing with time-travel paradox.
Most of what you see on a movie screen when it comes to science fiction is old hat to people who read the stuff. Time it makes it to the movies, it's been done to death in books. The Matrix, which was supposed to be so fresh and all? Old, old idea. Better story is by H.G. Wells the book, "When the Sleeper Wakes," written in the 1890's.
Any movie where the hero plays video games to combat aliens? Scott Card's Ender series, which was among the last books to play with the idea, before the movies go it.
Could you list me off some of the must have stories in sci-fi? Some that must be READ to put it simply?
"All You Zombies" sounds cool. I've never really gotten into sci-fi except William Gibson and H.G. Wells.
Timecop was a silly action film. The only reason its worth anything is because of Ron Silver and I liked the idea. But it was basically Back to the Future part 4.
But I will say that Mike Richardson's script was good and that Peter Hyams gave the film a very polished look. But in the end it came off like another Van Damne vehicle!!!! ::)
Love the beginning to the movie though.
"I want that gold now!" ;)
Too much science fiction out there to narrow it down to a few stories. The really good ones, you need some background in the stuff to be able to appreciate them. Some of them were killers when they came out, but have been built upon so much they don't have the impact any more. "The Cold Equations" was considered so horrible when it first appeared that it made some people sick to even think about it.
So many different kinds, it's hard to narrow it down -- hard science, space opera, utopias, dystopia.
I have favorite writers, but most of them did a ton of stuff. Start with the ABC's and H -- Asimov, Bradbury, Clarke, Heinlein. Find Poul Anderson, Fred Pohl. Urusula Le Guin. Robert Sheckley. Harlan Ellison, Roger Zelazny, Norman Spinrad, Bill Gibson, Daniel Keys Moran -- the list goes on and on.
Somebody has a list of the hundred greatest science fiction novels, I think it's on line. That would be a good place to start.
Thanks.
I've found some stuff has lost it's meaning. Starship Troopers for example. Seen the recent remake of The Invasion? It still carries that fear of communism and it just doesn't work anymore.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 04, 2007, 11:26:09 PM
I've found some stuff has lost it's meaning. Starship Troopers for example. Seen the recent remake of The Invasion? It still carries that fear of communism and it just doesn't work anymore.
A lot of other people have said that. :-\ Some sci-fi ideas become dated I guess.
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 04, 2007, 05:51:49 PM
When I said the alien drones were as smart as German Shepherds, that's what I meant. If you have ever been to a dog herding or agility competition, you'd see they are capable of all kinds of things that Rover lying over there on the couch doesn't demonstrate.
Wolves are even smarter, according to everything I know.
But dogs don't drive cars real well, or make informed life-choices, and save for the Queens, I never saw or heard of aliens doing anything a pack of wolves couldn't do. The yautja have FTL space ships that they run, which makes them as smart as humans -- or smarter -- and are way ahead of us technologically because they had them far enough back to be hunting humans who were armed with flintlocks.
Other than breeding more of themselves, I haven't seen evidence of any kind of Alien culture higher than that of wasps. Arguments about aliens being smarter than predators? Please. No evidence for it.
Well,
technically, we don't necessarily have any proof that Predators have a higher IQ than that of apes. :)
I've theorised in another part of the forum, that it might not be they who do the physical creating of their technology. They use it, sure, but how would they get a high enough definition of texture perception, using thermal vision, to even create vacuum tubes or the lightbulb, let alone primitive computer microchips? I don't even understand how they'd have anything like microscopes. Steve, help me out here - how did your Yautja evolve to do that kind of stuff? :) Did that sort of thing ever come into the equation?
They use technology, sure, but most of it is fairly standard point-and-click stuff (Leonardo DiVinci could be trained how to fly an F-22, but would never understand how it functioned). Their medical knowledge seems to suggest a fair degree of intelligence, but again, I'm fairly certain an ape could be trained to carry out similar field procedures as they do, with enough mental indoctrination.
There's also precedent for enslaving other races, if we take '
Alien Versus Predator' as any indication. Could they have taken over a more advanced civilisation and forced them to mass produce technology? It would certainly explain why it has stagnated for so long. Or perhaps they merely charter all their ships and equipment (together with crews?). That, in turn, might explain the radical difference in ship interior looks.
If they let other species make the technology or buy it in, it would certainly enable the Predators to devote themselves solely to the tradition of hunting.
QuoteI've always believed the xenomorphs were war toys, biological weapons, and the breeders, whoever they were, made them just smart enough to do their job. Me, I'd have put a clock in them so after a certain number of reproduction cycles, they'd die off, Hayflick out, and leave the real estate empty.
That would make sense and is an interesting idea. Although they seem rather viral and a virus, as we know, tends to mutate and deviate away from the original 'programming'.
Perhaps, if they were such things, that was the flaw in the design. :)
QuoteWhen I pitched a new idea to DH for the Predator novel, they didn't put any limits on it, save that they don't want to get back into the yautja stuff. If I had to guess, I'd say that came from Fox, who still has to approve all the novels.
That's interesting... Not wanting to revisit it, that is.
Did you ever encounter some sort of agency for Fox, which were at least attempting to try and tie everything together, canon-wise?
Also, is there a franchise you'd
love to write material for, but are not able to? Whether film or television.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 04, 2007, 11:26:09 PM
I've found some stuff has lost it's meaning. Starship Troopers for example. Seen the recent remake of The Invasion? It still carries that fear of communism and it just doesn't work anymore.
Oy... '
Starship Troopers'. I'm so glad someone advised me to see the film and then read the book. I'd have been mightily pissed if I did it the other way around.
It's a shame, because I really liked the original author's visual of these hulking great technological tarantula things in spaceships.
Then again, the film script started out as an original idea, but they discovered they incorporated so many things from the book, that they decided to buy the rights to that.
Does Who Goes There count as sci-fi?
In any case, it should be read anyway. The Thing's version of the ending was better, but the novella really gives you that paranoid feelin'.
John Carpenters movie is one of the best movies there is at projecting that feeling.
Its been along time since I read the short, but I remember thinking JC's version was infinately more superior.
Wasn't WGT's creature a psychic shapeshifter?
Quote from: SiL on Nov 05, 2007, 04:35:53 AM
Does Who Goes There count as sci-fi?
In any case, it should be read anyway. The Thing's version of the ending was better, but the novella really gives you that paranoid feelin'.
Where can I get that?
Online!
http://www.outpost31.com/books/who.txt
Quote from: Kimarhi on Nov 05, 2007, 04:45:47 AM
Wasn't WGT's creature a psychic shapeshifter?
No; that was an unused concept for the film. WGT's version was very much a physical shapeshifter.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 05, 2007, 04:56:20 AM
Online!
http://www.outpost31.com/books/who.txt
Quote from: Kimarhi on Nov 05, 2007, 04:45:47 AM
Wasn't WGT's creature a psychic shapeshifter?
No; that was an unused concept for the film. WGT's version was very much a physical shapeshifter.
Cool. Thanks.
[quote
Well, technically, we don't necessarily have any proof that Predators have a higher IQ than that of apes. :)
I've theorised in another part of the forum, that it might not be they who do the physical creating of their technology. They use it, sure, but how would they get a high enough definition of texture perception, using thermal vision, to even create vacuum tubes or the lightbulb, let alone primitive computer microchips? I don't even understand how they'd have anything like microscopes. Steve, help me out here - how did your Yautja evolve to do that kind of stuff? :) Did that sort of thing ever come into the equation?
They use technology, sure, but most of it is fairly standard point-and-click stuff (Leonardo DiVinci could be trained how to fly an F-22, but would never understand how it functioned). Their medical knowledge seems to suggest a fair degree of intelligence, but again, I'm fairly certain an ape could be trained to carry out similar field procedures as they do, with enough mental indoctrination.
[/quote]
Uh, you know of any apes that have been trained to fly starships? And nobody has really spoken to the technology in the yautja suits or ships -- it could be biological and not mechanical, and their version of computer chips might nothing like ours. What they do in a different spectrum of light or radio might be totally different but could effectively achieve the same ends. Light microscopes don't work the same way as electron microscopes, do they?
Since I've been inside their heads and have given you their thought processes, then I know they are are as smart as we are, and if you've read the first AvP, you know it too, so that dumb-as-apes scenario doesn't work. Fox let it get by, and if it's not canon, it has at least been spoken to.
This is the same Leonardo who came up with the theory of the helicopter?
Da Vinci might not understand the technical principles of jet flight -- I'm not sure most people walking around do -- but with a teacher who understood them, he could be taught how it worked in short order.
Anybody who has ever seen a squid move could be shown the connection. Old Leo had the same mental hardware as we do. Intelligence is the not same as ignorance, and Leo was brighter than most. Show him the principles, I believe he could grok it. No reason he couldn't.
Take somebody who barely knows the moves of chess and spend fifty hours or so teaching them and practicing two-move chess problems and in that narrow arena, they can keep up with world-class players. Can't beat them in a real game, but they can solve the two-move problems as quickly.
Knowledge cures ignorance, and a thing may be told simply if the teller understands it properly.
The theory that yautja are using borrowed tech and aren't too bright is a interesting thought, but there's no evidence of it, and it doesn't stand very close to Occam's Razor. And since I've been there, I know it ain't so ...
And a stork magically dropping a baby on the front doorstep of a person's house is simpler than an exchange of bodily fluids which results in two single-celled organisms meeting, then rapidly dividing and developing over a period of approximately nine months to form a human being ;)
*remembers episode of Sabrina* Mitosis is the process of cell division. God, that show taught me many things regarding life. :P
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 05, 2007, 06:02:51 PM
Uh, you know of any apes that have been trained to fly starships?
If it's not much different to flying combat jets, then yeah - the US Air Force was attempting precisely that, a number of decades ago. :)
Space shuttles are as complicated as they are because of having to compensate for things Predator spaceships don't, like angle of atmospheric entry and so on. The latter seems like they'd be infinitely more easier to cruise around in. They just glide in whatever direction you want them to. They can come to a floating stop, so they don't have to bother about friction in the upper atmosphere, if they don't want to.
Asuming they don't have some sort of energy shields, that is, which would render all of that null and void, regardless. :)
Also, when I gave the alternative of them chartering ships, I qualified the remark of there also being no reason why they might not charter crews, too. Doing so has the advantage of letting their entire society concentrate on nothing but hunting.
QuoteAnd nobody has really spoken to the technology in the yautja suits or ships -- it could be biological and not mechanical, and their version of computer chips might nothing like ours. What they do in a different spectrum of light or radio might be totally different but could effectively achieve the same ends. Light microscopes don't work the same way as electron microscopes, do they?
Sure, but I've always wondered how they'd invent that sort of stuff, if they perceive their environment on a purely thermal basis. Great for hunting living things. Crap for doing much more than discovering how to make fire. :) The way in which all their images seem to blur into a messy smudge makes it difficult to imagine them even getting to the stage of of Babbage. Fine detail on things like cold plastic or metal don't seem like anything they'd be good at - or mediocre, for that matter.
Alternatively, what we've seen form their perspective might be the result of surgical ocular implants. Perhaps they had heat vision fitted for hunts and see in a different way, naturally?
Serpents are different. They add heat detection to a normal method of light detection. Something like that would have the best of both worlds. Predators, unfortunately, don't. Even if they're manipulating biological technology, they still have to have evolved to the stage where they'd be able to do it.
Unless, as I say, they took it from someone else or literally bought it.
QuoteSince I've been inside their heads and have given you their thought processes, then I know they are are as smart as we are, and if you've read the first AvP, you know it too, so that dumb-as-apes scenario doesn't work. Fox let it get by, and if it's not canon, it has at least been spoken to.
Oh, indeed. Your interpretation of Predators makes them a great deal more than that and, truthfully, I'd
like them to be capable of having invented and created their own equipment. Nevertheless, going purely by what we've seen on the films, if we're going to say Aliens have never been proven as having high intelligence, we
could say the same about Predators. The only question is how and where they get their technology. :)
I'd also point out that I find it curious, for a species to truly have been capable of doing such things for such a very long time, that their technology has stagnated and not advanced very much further, by the time of the Colonial Marines and the sort of things Hudson alluded us having access to.
QuoteThis is the same Leonardo who came up with the theory of the helicopter?
Wasn't it a result of simply trying to adapt a falling sycamore seed to a machine-like construct? The concept was ahead of its time, but I don't think he would have had a clue as to why, even if someone had told him so. :)
QuoteDa Vinci might not understand the technical principles of jet flight -- I'm not sure most people walking around do -- but with a teacher who understood them, he could be taught how it worked in short order.
Anybody who has ever seen a squid move could be shown the connection. Old Leo had the same mental hardware as we do. Intelligence is the not same as ignorance, and Leo was brighter than most. Show him the principles, I believe he could grok it. No reason he couldn't.
Surely so, but if we're saying Predators developed all their own technology without external help, the analogy falls down.
Jet engines can loosely be explained as 'like' a squid or octopus, but those of Da Vinci's time would never have worked out what all those miniature turbine blades or ducts and piping are for. What's the point of it being given oil? Why not put much more plentiful muddy water in it? Why isn't it getting bigger as it breathes the air in? Why is the air coming out hot? Etcetera.
QuoteTake somebody who barely knows the moves of chess and spend fifty hours or so teaching them and practicing two-move chess problems and in that narrow arena, they can keep up with world-class players. Can't beat them in a real game, but they can solve the two-move problems as quickly.
Knowledge cures ignorance, and a thing may be told simply if the teller understands it properly.
I agree he could be taught. If we went back in time and gave the Roman Empire access to modern firearms, they might even be able to replicate them (if also given the right understanding of how to make the correct alloys). On the other hand, even if Da Vinci stripped the down something as revolutionary as the F-22 (or even a Spitfire), on his own and without any guiding knowledge, he'd be completely lost.
Might make a nice sculpture out of it, though. :)
QuoteThe theory that yautja are using borrowed tech and aren't too bright is a interesting thought, but there's no evidence of it, and it doesn't stand very close to Occam's Razor. And since I've been there, I know it ain't so...
I'd like to think that were the case, too. Going purely on the films, however, without having any guarantees that the Predators invented and manufactured their own (relatively easy to use, if going by their usual point-and-click interface) technology, there's nothing to say their intelligence level is necessarily any higher than a particulally blood-thirsty monkey - or even aggressive tarantula, come to that.
They understand the principles of worlds being seperated by the gulf of space, but a chimpanzee would understand the idea of two islands having to be crossed by water, too.
I would personally say it all rests on if their science came from conquest/chartering or domestic inventiveness.
While there's nothing to prove they
didn't developed it themselves, their lack of texture/detail-related visual perception and bizarre stagnation of technology appear to suggest they that they could just as easily be getting the stuff from somewhere else.
Heck, for all that we know, they found a derelict-like automated factory belonging to some long-dead advanced species and just started cranking the stuff out. :)
I'd like to imagine Predators are just as inventive and resourceful as reflected in the Yautja portrayal, I just think there are alternatives which,
if true (not saying I necessarily believe them; only that they're possible), could account for what would otherwise be a couple of anomolies: Unsuitable visual perception and lack of future technological advancement.
And also perhaps put Predators and Aliens on a much more even intellectual level than is usually assumed.
And once again, I thank you, as a professional, for coming here and even taking the time to read this stuff. :)
Bizarre stagnation of technology? Never heard the concept, If it ain't broke, don't fix it?
Trying to teach apes to fly a jet is not the same as pulling it off. You can try to fly by jumping off a roof and waving your arms really fast, too, but that doesn't mean it is going to work.
That you might not be able to reverse engineer a piece of technology three or four hundred years past what you know, all by yourself, is not evidence for lack of intelligence at all. IQ is not just a measure of learned knowledge, but of ability to process knowledge. Most school kids today know more than the brightest people alive two hundred years ago. But that doesn't make the kids smart.
It's like a terrier knows a rat -- I know smart when I see it, and the Yautja are smart. Save for the Queen, the Xenomorphs are not. Anything else is wishful thinking.
Some things will change, but who is to say what they will be, in an alien --- generically-speaking here -- culture?
Hunters on Earth today tend to do it pretty much the same way they did two hundred years ago. Sure, there are scopes and other toys, but essentially, a guy tromps around in the woods or on the veldt and bags an animal using a weapon that works pretty much the same way they did during the revolutionary war -- pull the trigger, it goes bang! and a small metal missile flies off and at the target.
There are guys who still do it using black powder weapons.
Sure, a scoped 30-06 deer rifle is advanced over a Kentucky flintlock, but you can kill a critter just as dead with the old weapon as with the new. And that is how some people choose to do it.
And let's not forget all those guys who go deer-hunting with bows and arrows. Again, the bows are high-tech -- in some cases. In some, there are hunters who deliberately stay low-tech, to give the prey more of a chance. Longbows. Spears against boars, or in some cases, until recently, against lions.
All you've seen in the Predator movies are the good old boys who go hunting, and they aren't necessarily representative of the culture back home. While Dachande and the boys are out bagging aliens and oomans, maybe Mozande is home listening to the local version of Bach or Pachelbel and arranging flowers.
If you judged humans by Billy Bob and Jimmy Joe out poaching deer in the swamp, you'd miss a fair amount of the culture ...
And to judge from the movies alone -- which you don't get to do, since you have read the books -- there's no reason to assume borrowed technology. Be just as easy to assume the Yautja hunters are handicapping themselves by using heat vision only and their version of bows and arrows to take the local game, based on how human models work. Maybe they can adjust their vision by an act of will. Maybe it is considered dishonorable to do it any other way.
Truth is, the screenwriters never thought past how cool it would look for POV shots in infrared.
It's a fine theory, they swiped their tech, but no matter how much lipstick you put on it, it's still a pig ...
QuoteIt's a fine theory, they swiped their tech, but no matter how much lipstick you put on it, it's still a pig ...
John Shirley would beg to differ.
And not only is the author dead, but apparently according to DH Press, so are all the older books!
*tap dances*
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 06, 2007, 08:10:30 PM
QuoteIt's a fine theory, they swiped their tech, but no matter how much lipstick you put on it, it's still a pig ...
John Shirley would beg to differ.
That's okay, Shirley's been wrong before, one more won't matter ...
*coughs* Hoho! What makes your interpretation anymore valid than his? His was approved by Fox and going by your comments earlier...that makes his whole they stole technology and enslaved race version just as canonical as yours. Which when it boils down to it, neither of them are.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 07, 2007, 11:19:16 PM
*coughs* Hoho! What makes your interpretation anymore valid than his? His was approved by Fox and going by your comments earlier...that makes his whole they stole technology and enslaved race version just as canonical as yours. Which when it boils down to it, neither of them are.
Mistakes? Ask John about Rothbell, next time you see him. We go way back, he and I. Before most of the fans here were born, I expect.
If the books don't count, if only the movies are canon, then the Predators are intelligent, ipso facto, judging strictly on their actions and equipment. They have shift-suits, personal atomic bombs, FTL travel, and a code of honor, as evidenced by not killing pregnant females. Being able to use such tools requires more wherewithal than your average chimp. They have a written and spoken language, with the concept of numbers.
I can't recall a viable science fiction story in which a less-intelligence species took control of one way brighter. That doesn't make a lot of sense. Big and strong are good, but smart is better; else elephants would rule the Earth.
Smartest thing I recall seen a xenomorph do was the Queen figuring out how to operate an elevator to chase Ripley and Newt.
And in A4, two drones kill a third to burn their way out of a cell. If they were so smart, why didn't one of them slash his wrist a long time ago and use the acid blood to good effect? You know, melt a lock, a hole in the glass so he can grab the white coat by the throat? Took 'em four movies to figure that one out? Ot-nay ooh-tay ight-bray.
Any extrapolation past the movies is all pie-in-the-sky, according to this logic. Mine, John's, yours. I like mine better, because it makes more sense to me than Shirley's or yours. Your mileage may vary.
Lot of folks seem to like the Yautja concept, leastways to judge from my fanmail and the numbers of books sold.
Second Predator fell for Glover playing possum.
Ot-nay oo-tay art-smay.
Doesn't mean there was any honor in the action. Just shows they have some sort of code, rules or etc. The whole honor aspect didn't become prominent until Prey and your vision of the Predator culture. The Thomas Brothers described the Predators as ruthless hunters looking for the best game. The samurai culture was your/comic invention.
I still don't agree. Just because he used it doesn't mean the Predators are intelligent. I'm sat here on a two screen AVID workstation researching animation and hunting at the sametime. I'm well aware how to create animations, I didn't find what I was looking for about hunting and I definately don't know how the PC works...but I'm using it quite well.
So we know the Predator/Yautja/Hish are capable of using technology well above our heads. Doesn't mean they understand it. I mean, taking AvPR into account the technology obviously isn't that sophisticated since Dallas uses the Shoulder Cannon/Plasma Cannon. It could be that someone else builds the technology for the Predator - which Mr Shirley stipulated and explained the slave races build them simply.
QuoteI can't recall a viable science fiction story in which a less-intelligence species took control of one way brighter. That doesn't make a lot of sense. Big and strong are good, but smart is better; else elephants would rule the Earth.
Don't think you've searched far enough. In lot's of sci-fi this happens and it's generally our pitiful race.
Lots of people do like the Yautja concept. Without you the Predator fanbase would be far smaller. I'm not arguing people don't like it. I searched out Prey years ago because of your interpretation and I found it interesting. I also found the Hish interesting. I'm the sort of person who loves to reads how different people interpretate different things. Forever Midnight went into a second printing BTW. I know it's probably not much compared to yours but people seem to like the Hish too.
In the end, I don't much in either Predator culture because when it comes down to it, it demystifies them. I like my P1/2 Predator as they are in the film. Ruthless hunters.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 08, 2007, 10:16:47 AM
Lots of people do like the Yautja concept. Without you the Predator fanbase would be far smaller. I'm not arguing people don't like it. I searched out Prey years ago because of your interpretation and I found it interesting. I also found the Hish interesting. I'm the sort of person who loves to reads how different people interpretate different things. Forever Midnight went into a second printing BTW. I know it's probably not much compared to yours but people seem to like the Hish too.
In the end, I don't much in either Predator culture because when it comes down to it, it demystifies them. I like my P1/2 Predator as they are in the film. Ruthless hunters.
I just want to interject my opinion here....
A few years ago, when AVP came out FINALLY as a real movie... it made me miss the comics I got to grow up with... and then I found out about the Predator novels, and then I found out there was even a short series of AVP novels, and bet your ass I had to have them.
So I went on a shopping spree of comics, and novels. I had the movies in my possession and then I began finding more and more fan films - I was nothing short of obsessed for a bit.
...and then one day, I get some books in the mail. Concrete Jungle, Big Game, and Cold War... eventually I even got the rest of the Predator books... then I moved on to the AVP stuff, and holy shit was I blown away.
These were written like they were straight from the movies to me, they hunted REALLY well, had a TON of character development and struggles. They hunted with pride, and honor - and became true anti-heroes. It wasn't just for the sake of killing, it was more than that, and THAT made it respectable.
So, I read, and read, and read... then, there was nothing else for me to read. Then I find out in a few months Forever Midnight was coming out, and god damn was I excited! I preordered it, and the day it arrived, I was so stoked to read a NEW novel.
...and then I was disappointed. It stuck to NOTHING that was previously written, or shown in movies. Tell me when was a Predator in any film using humans as shields? Using mind control? Had there KIDS with them? Kissed each others asses? Changed genders? Flown around on silly platforms? I don't recall ANY of that, period. And it's not because I read Perry's work before I read FM that didn't make me like it, it's because it was so far out there it made no sense! Now, I get that a lot of people like it, and that is FINE with me, but i don't get why, and I probably never will. You can't put Superman in a green suit and give him gills and sixteen arms and try to pass it off as being Superman.
Whereas in Perry's work, he at least, at the VERY least made them similar to the movies, Shirley's interpretation branched beyond the movies (and fell about 40 yards from having anything remotely in common with them) that are considered "canon."
That's why I didn't like it, and from what I've gathered from a TON of other Predator fans, THAT is why they prefer Perry's work, over Shirley's. --- Also, it's the main reason I like Flesh and Blood so much as well, the Hish name means nothing to me, they actually hunted, and acted like what was shown in the movies... not something forty thousand lightyears away from it.
I don't remember Predators talking like they've got cotton wool in their mouth in the movies, either...
Quote from: SiL on Nov 09, 2007, 08:28:06 PM
I don't remember Predators talking like they've got cotton wool in their mouth in the movies, either...
Fair enough, but then again, we've never seen in the movies on going interaction with them that would lead us to hear their language... HOWEVER we have heard in Predator 2, TWO of them speak. One saying "motherf**ker" to Harrigan, and the elder at the end saying "take it" - soooo to assume they might have hunted humans long enough to have learned a small bit english, it's not to far fetched that Perry's interpretation of their own language isn't more practical based on what was in the movies, than the other things I pointed out.
Always made more sense to me that they could communicate in clicks and grunts. You can create quite a vocabulary with some basic sounds.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 09, 2007, 09:09:45 PM
Always made more sense to me that they could communicate in clicks and grunts. You can create quite a vocabulary with some basic sounds.
Like the Hadza in Tanzania, they hunt with body language and clicks.
I was just implying that what Perry used in his books, makes much more sense than what was used in Forever Midnight.
It's all Greek to me.
[quote I still don't agree. Just because he used it doesn't mean the Predators are intelligent. I'm sat here on a two screen AVID workstation researching animation and hunting at the sametime. I'm well aware how to create animations, I didn't find what I was looking for about hunting and I definately don't know how the PC works...but I'm using it quite well.
[/quote]
But you are intelligent, at least much more so than apes or dogs. That's where the xenomorphs live, in my opinion, down in the German Shepherd kennel.. No ape or dog can drive a car to the market, go in, pick up a loaf of bread, pay the bill, make conversatino with the checker, count his change, and then drive home, Lassie and Planet of the Apes notwithstanding, much less take a starship across the galaxy to go hunting various carnivore game species.
The base-level IQ has to be higher to run the gear. Rote only takes you so far.
You might not know how a PC works, but the guy who came up with the idea was human, and there are a bunch more like him running around. Every bit of technology you see is manmade, so your analogy is shaky. If you need to how some of it works in detail, the information is available -- there are humans you can ask.
As for mysterious, sure. That's why James Bond used to work -- you don't get inside his head. But for me, the latest movie, in which you see *how* he goes from being a newbie op to become 007 was much more interesting. Whodunnits are only interesting if you have to work to figure them out. If can tell who the killer is nearly every time, then *why* he dunnit is more interesting, at least to me.
As a book writer, I have to be able to get inside a character's head if I'm featuring him or her as viewpoint. Why they do stuff is important, it makes a link by which a reader can relate to them. Otherwise, why care what happens to them?
Steve,
Could you ever see a Predator female be invovled with hunts (humans, Aliens, etc)? Maybe, have a Predator female star in a Predator 3 or a new Predator novel?
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Nov 25, 2007, 11:37:40 PM
Steve,
Could you ever see a Predator female be invovled with hunts (humans, Aliens, etc)? Maybe, have a Predator female star in a Predator 3 or a new Predator novel?
I don't see why not. My daughter and I made a point of noting that Predator females were apt to give the males more grief than they wanted if they crossed them (much like human females can do) and I see no reason why a female predator couldn't be spotlighted.
P.S. The DVD/Blue-Ray of the next AvP movie is going to have some nice extras -- including interviews with scientists and writers and all like that, including -- if they don't cut it -- a short piece with Yours Truly. If you want to see what I look like on the hot seat in front of a camera, check it out ...
Steve,
Is it possible that you may do another of you 'Yautja' novels again? Or are your next predator novels (if you are hired) going to be like the Hish or the films? Or, do you want to do another AVP Yautja novel?
One question here... I was wondering if you'd ever be interested in doing a novel set in the past (pirates, vikings, or samurai)?
Quote from: AdamBombOi on Dec 12, 2007, 05:53:39 PM
One question here... I was wondering if you'd ever be interested in doing a novel set in the past (pirates, vikings, or samurai)?
I don't think those are on the table, last I heard. Be kind of fun to do one with samurai, though ...
Quote from: Khan on Dec 12, 2007, 03:16:06 AM
Steve,
Is it possible that you may do another of you 'Yautja' novels again? Or are your next predator novels (if you are hired) going to be like the Hish or the films? Or, do you want to do another AVP Yautja novel?
I'd find that more interesting than camera viewpoint, but them I'm kind of a bug about character stuff. Lot of readers want to see exploding heads, but don't seem to care what is going on inside the head before it goes boom ...
At the moment, I've got a doorstop- fantasy novel and an urban fantasy novel and a tea-cozy mystery novel lined up I need to do, plus one more in the matador series. Gonna take a while to get those written.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 08, 2007, 08:07:18 AM
Second Predator fell for Glover playing possum.
Ot-nay oo-tay art-smay.
One predator was fooled.
Therefore.
The entire race is stupid!
Quote from: steveperry on Dec 13, 2007, 01:51:16 AM
Quote from: Khan on Dec 12, 2007, 03:16:06 AM
Steve,
Is it possible that you may do another of you 'Yautja' novels again? Or are your next predator novels (if you are hired) going to be like the Hish or the films? Or, do you want to do another AVP Yautja novel?
I'd find that more interesting than camera viewpoint, but them I'm kind of a bug about character stuff. Lot of readers want to see exploding heads, but don't seem to care what is going on inside the head before it goes boom ...
At the moment, I've got a doorstop- fantasy novel and an urban fantasy novel and a tea-cozy mystery novel lined up I need to do, plus one more in the matador series. Gonna take a while to get those written.
The matador series? Ive heard about that one. But anyway, I like seeing inside the Yautjas heads before them getting killed, since the stuff youve made up about them is fascinating.
Quote from: steveperry on Dec 13, 2007, 01:48:46 AM
Quote from: AdamBombOi on Dec 12, 2007, 05:53:39 PM
One question here... I was wondering if you'd ever be interested in doing a novel set in the past (pirates, vikings, or samurai)?
I don't think those are on the table, last I heard. Be kind of fun to do one with samurai, though ...
Man, that is my dream novel and, a few other members here thought the samurai thing would be a good idea too. Very cool to hear one of your favorite authors say something like that. If it ever happens, whether it's years away or not, that'd be nothing short of
epic.
Away from all of that though, if you do write a new novel, after Turnabout, do you think you'd use any of the new weapons that have been introduced through AVP, and the new movie, or just stick to the basics?
You know, I wanted to ask this and not sure if anyone has.. but I'm going to ask anyway. Too sleepy to browse through this entire thread anyway. If Mr. Perry is still here, here is my question:
What was your inspiration for creating Dachande (Yeyinde)? Why did you choose him to be different in terms of combat and philosphy from the other Yautja by having him resemble something of a bare fisted fighter who believed that a warrior should depend on their own physical prowress and skill rather than a gun?
Yes... I LOVED Dachande by the way.
Hope you can respond to this, Mr. Perry!
-Rakai'Thwei
Quote from: steveperry on Dec 12, 2007, 02:52:28 AM
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Nov 25, 2007, 11:37:40 PM
Steve,
Could you ever see a Predator female be invovled with hunts (humans, Aliens, etc)? Maybe, have a Predator female star in a Predator 3 or a new Predator novel?
I don't see why not. My daughter and I made a point of noting that Predator females were apt to give the males more grief than they wanted if they crossed them (much like human females can do) and I see no reason why a female predator couldn't be spotlighted.
Thank you for answering my question. I would really like to see a Predator female be in the spotlight in a futre AVP film or Predator 3 or even a novel. I think there is some interesting possibilites/potential there.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Dec 13, 2007, 05:07:59 AM
You know, I wanted to ask this and not sure if anyone has.. but I'm going to ask anyway. Too sleepy to browse through this entire thread anyway. If Mr. Perry is still here, here is my question:
What was your inspiration for creating Dachande (Yeyinde)? Why did you choose him to be different in terms of combat and philosphy from the other Yautja by having him resemble something of a bare fisted fighter who believed that a warrior should depend on their own physical prowress and skill rather than a gun?
Yes... I LOVED Dachande by the way.
Hope you can respond to this, Mr. Perry!
-Rakai'Thwei
We needed a character into whose head we could peer, and I wanted a Predator of honor, old-school, who would allow readers to see that the reasons the yautja behaved as we saw them in the movies. It's not that Dachande couldn't use weapons, it was that he preferred to test himself. Anybody can shoot somebody at a distance; going hand-to-hand with a creature as dangerous as the xenomorphs involves more risk.
A guy who shoots a lion three hundred meters away with a high-powered rifle is not the same as one who goes after the big cat with a bow and arrow or a spear.
The yautja warriors are, at their best, brave and adept. Dachande was, in my mine, the best. Not the kind of character who was gonna die with his boots off ...
Quote from: steveperry on Dec 14, 2007, 07:06:46 AM
Anybody can shoot somebody at a distance; going hand-to-hand with a creature as dangerous as the xenomorphs involves more risk.
Not that it really matters, ultimately, being that the book pretty explicitly states that (drone, at least) Aliens are no match for a skilled Predator such as Dachande.
huge fan steve
was just curious
when you come on a board like this do you read any of the fan fictions and if so have you seen any you liked or wanted to expand on yourself,or even sat there and thought....i wish i thought of that?
lol
Quote from: SiL on Dec 14, 2007, 08:44:37 AM
Quote from: steveperry on Dec 14, 2007, 07:06:46 AM
Anybody can shoot somebody at a distance; going hand-to-hand with a creature as dangerous as the xenomorphs involves more risk.
Not that it really matters, ultimately, being that the book pretty explicitly states that (drone, at least) Aliens are no match for a skilled Predator such as Dachande.
So I take it you don't like the books?
Quote from: nexus on Dec 14, 2007, 04:46:56 PM
huge fan steve
was just curious
when you come on a board like this do you read any of the fan fictions and if so have you seen any you liked or wanted to expand on yourself,or even sat there and thought....i wish i thought of that?
lol
No, I don't read fanfic. (And I don't read books that people I don't know send me via email, for legal reasons.)
Even though the fans don't own the characters in the A, P, or AvP universe, they sometimes can get possessive, and I don't want anybody thinking I swiped something from them. Not that either of us have any rights -- it all belongs to Fox and even the books must be approved by them.
Ideas are cheap and folks tend to have some of the same ones at the same time. First novel I sold was about a mutant bacteria, and the editor told me she had gotten two other books with very similar themes the same week. The zeitgeist is out there, and if you have an idea, probably somebody in the world is also having that thought at the same time.
I piss off enough fans already, no point in making it any worse.
Quote from: SiL on Dec 14, 2007, 08:44:37 AM
Quote from: steveperry on Dec 14, 2007, 07:06:46 AM
Anybody can shoot somebody at a distance; going hand-to-hand with a creature as dangerous as the xenomorphs involves more risk.
Not that it really matters, ultimately, being that the book pretty explicitly states that (drone, at least) Aliens are no match for a skilled Predator such as Dachande.
The thing was, there were
no preds as skilled as Dachande. He was pretty much the most powerful Yautja of his time.
So I don't see what you're so bitter about. ;D
Good points, i hadnt thought of that....thanks so much for replying
much appreciated
Do you like that your daughter followed in your footsteps? How proud/wary were you of her career path?
Mr. Perry:
I am a big fan of your work, mostly AVP: Prey and Shadows of the Empire. I really enjoyed the "Yautja" concept of the Predators that you established and was very disappointed that it is not being followed in the current novels. I really liked how you got inside Dachande's head and told much of the story from his perspective. Will your new Predator novel do this as well?
Also, now that AVP: Requiem is out, what did you think of it? (If you have seen it.) What did you like and what would you have changed?
Thanks. I appreciate your answering our questions.
Quote from: JungleHunter on Jan 07, 2008, 08:50:49 PM
Mr. Perry:
I am a big fan of your work, mostly AVP: Prey and Shadows of the Empire. I really enjoyed the "Yautja" concept of the Predators that you established and was very disappointed that it is not being followed in the current novels. I really liked how you got inside Dachande's head and told much of the story from his perspective. Will your new Predator novel do this as well?
Also, now that AVP: Requiem is out, what did you think of it? (If you have seen it.) What did you like and what would you have changed?
Thanks. I appreciate your answering our questions.
I think he said in an earlier interview about the book that it wont be yautja based, just a predator like the ones from the original films.
Quote from: Khan on Jan 11, 2008, 09:34:33 PM
Quote from: JungleHunter on Jan 07, 2008, 08:50:49 PM
Mr. Perry:
I am a big fan of your work, mostly AVP: Prey and Shadows of the Empire. I really enjoyed the "Yautja" concept of the Predators that you established and was very disappointed that it is not being followed in the current novels. I really liked how you got inside Dachande's head and told much of the story from his perspective. Will your new Predator novel do this as well?
Also, now that AVP: Requiem is out, what did you think of it? (If you have seen it.) What did you like and what would you have changed?
Thanks. I appreciate your answering our questions.
I have to say that I was less than impressed. Nice EFX, but I they'd have given one of the comic or novel wrters a shot at the script. I don't think this one will have producers lined up to do another one.
steve did you see avpr? if so, whatd you think?
Quote from: Bob Saget on Jan 24, 2008, 10:13:11 PM
steve did you see avpr? if so, whatd you think?
I do believe he just answered that in the post above yours. :)
Quote from: steveperry on Jan 24, 2008, 06:13:22 PM
I don't think this one will have producers lined up to do another one.
The money will always bring 'em back. Expect the next one to have just as low a budget as this last one, with just as many 'good' decisions made, and a good chunk of the money wasted on one prime example of terrible design. ;)
I haven't seen any official budget on AvPR -- heard various numbers up to about sixty million.
The general rule of thumb is that to make a profit, a movie has to make about 2.5 times what it costs for production and prints. AvPR apparent did much better overseas than here, and with DVD sales, will probably break $150 million worldwide, so it's certainly possible that it will earn enough to get another one going.
I'd hate to see the franchise die, but I sure hope they find somebody who can come up with something that doesn't get nominated for the Razzies next time out.
I'm finding that hard to believe. The last two have both been nominated for Razzies now. It's what happens when they let idiots like Salerno write and fanboys direct. I just want someone who wont claim to be a massive fan and etc and etc. So many promises...so little delivered.
Hi Mr. Perry,
I want to be a future comic/movie script writter and I was thinking if it sound good to you a comic about Wolf's (predator in AVP R) past. I am working on the script and I even have a post on the fan section but anyways do you think my idea would work? ;)
I honestly don't know why it's so difficult for Hollywood to hire a good screenwriter to write a good AvP story. I mean, they chose Shane to write the script again and the script/story was one of the BIG problems of the first AvP film. I just don't get it. They couldn't find a different writer for the sequel?
I think Steve is right...they should hire a comic/novel writer for the next film.
Steve, if you were ever offered to write a AVP, Alien or Predator script, would you do it?
"Steve, if you were ever offered to write a AVP, Alien or Predator script, would you do it?"
That would be a dream come true. Steve your book Aliens vs. Predator: Prey is the reason why I love the two series so much.
I expect I'd be pleased to take a shot at it. Unlikely, though. There are some very strange stories down in La-La-Land, I've been involved in a few.
They don't think like normal people down there. I talked recently to somebody who should have written the second AvP movie, heard his idea, and it would have been terrific. He had plenty of credits and should have gotten the job, but didn't, and for reasons having to do with ego. Lot of that going around in Hollywood.
Too bad.
It's amazing that good movies get made, given what they have to go through.
I'm sure you and the other writer would've made one hell of a AVP story/script, for sure. It's a shame Fox is f**king this up. I'm surprised it's really been difficult to get it "right".
All they have to do is look at what made the previous films "work" and apply that to an original story. I don't think an original setting/story would be really difficult to do, since Darkhorse comics was able to make some very interesting AVP stories.
Fox should've hired a Darkhorse comic/graphic novel writer, or one of the Alien/Predator novel writers, such as yourself, to write the sequel. Fox was blind to the fact that it wasn't just the look of the creatures and lack of gore that was the problem with the first AVP film, but also, the story, human characters and how the Alien/Predator were written.
Anyway, I was hoping it would only take one AVP film to get it "right", but it's a shame to see that AVP-R tried, but also failed. I guess it will take three films (hopefully) to do it.
I cannot believe I have not looked in this forum before. Steve Perry actually talks to the fans! I am so excited right now I really can't think of a good question. I will just say that I am a HUGE fan of your writing Mr. Perry. I am also a huge fan of your daughter's writing as well. I have about seventeen pages to read through to see what all has been asked and said before I can really get up to speed but I did want to say something since I saw this thread.
Mr. Perry,
I just wanted to say that your writing in the Alien Universe is absolutely brilliant. If it weren't for me reading Earth Hive, Nightmare Asylum, and The Female War I would not be in this forum. Reading those books completely rekindled my enthusiasm for this entire franchise. I know you have authored many other works but I wanted to tell you how much those three novels affected me. I discovered them in a bookstore about three years ago and had to get them. It hadn't dawned on me that there were books written about this franchise. Anyway, I know I'm rambling but I wanted to say thank you for contributing to the Alien Universe. I think your work is brilliant and I am very glad that you have written what you have.
Thank you very much.
Sincerely,
Russell Davis
Hi Mr Perry, another wee question for you.
alot of people seem to slate teh original AVP movie for the Pred/human team up which featured in your book prey.
how do you feel towards the comments saying that was one of the things that ruined the film. do you stand by your desicion to write that into one of your stories? do you regret it now?
sorry if this has been asked before
Mr. Perry didn't exactly have a choice - It was in the comic he was adapting.
I hope Mr. Perry comes back here. I would love the chance to talk to him some. The guy is brilliant.
Except for the latest original story I did for Predators, I was dealing with graphic novels that needed to be translated to book form. I though I did an okay job on those, I added some things that I thought worked, but the real credit goes to Dark Horse -- the writers, artists, editors, and publisher. They had some really good ideas, and I wish the movie folks would have used them.
My small contribution to the series (with my daughter) had to do with the Predators's backstory, a small bit of their culture, and we were pleased with how that came out.
Some fans loved it, some hated it, but that's how it goes. Never please everybody in a universe like this.
Ever think about writing a another aliens novel set during the earthwar?
Since it seems that the new books are crossing in and out of the comic eu.
Somewhat surprised its never been done. Having a group of people on earth as things slowly go to hell would be pretty interesting. Maybe have some average joe trying to make a spaceport with Aliens slowly encroaching singularly and en masse on his journey.
Maybe throw in some of the fanatics, (to diversify the action slightly) and have the military confrontation as a backdrop to the guy's personal story.
Of course its been glimpsed in Outbreak/Earthhive and then Female War, but I only feel those books touched the potential of that situation.
I think Female War pretty solidly nailed the idea. That, and the short "Countdown".
I don't really think so. Female War was a resolution to various different storylines, and featured the earth almost entirely annihilated already.
Outbreak/earthhive only had it as minor story focuses.
I'm thinking something along the lines of Romero (or the remake) Dotd, or 28 days/weeks. Where you have characters trapped in that situation with no out, and they have to survive on their own.
That, Kimarhi, is a fantastic and somewhat fresh idea and very very new for the Aliens franchise. I only have one thing to say - Make it so.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Mar 05, 2008, 04:20:47 AM
Ever think about writing a another aliens novel set during the earthwar?
Since it seems that the new books are crossing in and out of the comic eu.
Somewhat surprised its never been done. Having a group of people on earth as things slowly go to hell would be pretty interesting. Maybe have some average joe trying to make a spaceport with Aliens slowly encroaching singularly and en masse on his journey.
Maybe throw in some of the fanatics, (to diversify the action slightly) and have the military confrontation as a backdrop to the guy's personal story.
Of course its been glimpsed in Outbreak/Earthhive and then Female War, but I only feel those books touched the potential of that situation.
I really loved the war it was written. I recently bought the Aliens Omnibus and it is rather disappointing to read after having read your novelizations. I feel like a lot was added.
I also wanted to be clear about the fact that I love your Predator back story as well. I have read the Aliens vs Predator books and absolutely love them. I just wanted to first acknowledge the fact that I love the Alien series. Then I wanted to talk about the Predator series. Like I said, I am a
huge fan. The whole characterization of the Predators that was established in Aliens vs Predator: Prey really gave them a whole new depth. It's great and added so much.
I do have a couple of questions for you. First I was wondering where the best place to get your new Predator book, Turnabout, was? I have went to the local Books a Million and they don't seem to be able to get it in within a reasonable time. I really don't care for Books a Million that much because their Science Fiction section is severely lacking. I just go there because it's the closest book store. If you have a link or recommendation for a website or store that has your new book I would really appreciate it.
My other question is would you consider writing a Colonial Marines story? From what I've read you have a great appreciation of James Cameron's film and I think you could do a bang up job on a Colonial Marines story. I know I would love it.
Oh yeah, I also wanted to mention that I love your daughter's Resident Evil series. I have all those books and have read through them at least four times. She's a fantastic writer. Are there some other Science Fiction books she's done? If so, I would love to check them out.
Thanks again Mr. Perry.
Russell
My question is simply "When is Turnabout coming out now?" Because I thought it was supposed to be February 27, but not even online stores have it yet...
Darkhorse has always been a pain in the ass about releasing stuff on time.
As a youngster collecting comics, I'd eventually learn just to wait till the end of the year and buy all their stuff at one time. Because it would be delayed. Often.
I am actively looking for Predator:Turnabout myself.. Does anyone know what rthe actual release date is?
P.S Mr Perry, I am a Yuatja fan all the way!
As far as Turnabout goes, here is what Amazon sent me when I preordered it.
"Hello from Amazon.com.
We're writing about the order you placed on February 11 2008 00:15 PST
(Order# xxx-xxxxxxxx-xxxxxxx). Unfortunately, we are unable to ship the item(s) as soon as we expected and need to provide you with a new estimate of when the item(s) may be delivered:
Steve Perry (Author) "Predator: Turnabout (Predator)" [Paperback]
Estimated arrival date: 04/24/2008 - 04/28/2008"
Dark Horse has gotten hosed by a couple of distributors -- went belly up, and left them in fairly dire straits. They are getting it all sorted out, but it has caused some delays across the board.
Amazon.com shows Turnabout, last time I looked.( I know it exists because I'm looking at a copy my editor sent me. A matter of getting it out of the warehouse ...)
Steve
Hey Steve, got my copy in the mail from amazon today! Reading it right now, and I must say, it's kickin some ass!
Update: 100 pages in, and I am loving the story! Sloane is one decrepit old hardass, and Regal is a flat out p.o.s.
The dialogue is superb, especially the gun info, seems like you REALLY went all out on getting stuff right. This is all playing out in my head like movie, and I love it!
Yeah, well, the gun-guys get irritated if I mess up the gun stuff, so I research that, ask folks who know, to make sure I get it right. My daughter worked on this one with me, even though she doesn't get a cover credit. We think it came out okay.
You'll certainly succeeded with the gun stuff! No one will be let down with that!
Just about done with Turnabout.
I don't want to say to much to spoil it for anyone, but brother you did a fantastic job with giving the characters life, made me care what happens to them, and giving the Predators in the book more of a original feel, in the sense of Predator 1. Bang up imagery too, it's easy to see why your AVP books were and still are so beloved.
Can't wait to finish the book, thanks for writing it!
My question is:
What do you think of recent portrayals of predators in the AVP films?
Or better yet the Aliens.
I've probably said this before, but I liked A2 best of the Aliens movies, and Predator (I) best of those.
I cannot say that I liked either of the AvP movies, and that goes to story. If they'd let Mike Richardson or Chris Warner write the scripts, then you would have had something that would have blown your socks off. Some directors can write, some are better at laying out the movie, some can do both, but it all starts with the script, and if it isn't good, it's hard to make it better.
Jim Cameron's script was wonderful. That's because he knows how to write and also how to direct. All of his movies work on both levels, least they do for me.
Me, I'm looking forward to see how much -- if any -- of my interview they kept in the DVD ...
Interested in doing anymore predator/alien novels?
Turnabout bring up any ideas you think are workable?
Really think A2 was best written? I didn't think it was anywhere near as good as paper as it was in the final product. It was his direction and the actors that made that film what it was. The charm of people like Bill Paxton and Weaver, their characters were no-where near as interesting written down as they were acted.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 26, 2008, 01:34:50 PM
Really think A2 was best written? I didn't think it was anywhere near as good as paper as it was in the final product.
The same can easily be said for Alien. Only there it was Scott's talent with production design and cinematography that helped the film rise above the written word.
Did you like the expanded mythos in AvPR? Eg Breeding method, homeworld etc
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Mar 26, 2008, 01:51:56 PM
The same can easily be said for Alien. Only there it was Scott's talent with production design and cinematography that helped the film rise above the written word.
Never actually read the final draft of Alien. Only the first.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Mar 26, 2008, 01:51:56 PM
The same can easily be said for Alien. Only there it was Scott's talent with production design and cinematography that helped the film rise above the written word.
Can't agree there. I remember printing out the script and being steadily more and more creeped out as I read it. And this was
after I'd seen the movie.
I had seen Alien a long time ago, and lost interest, but then in Israel on a trip I found this store selling books in English. I picked up the original Alien novelization. I was so freaked out by it, so I decided to watch Alien again.
Alien is for me, by far, the best Alien film, because it is so creepy, it gives you all kinds of feelings like claustrophobia in the small places and anti-claustrophobia when you see how big space is and how small the ship is, and it also had an awesome creature design and great cinematography and music.
I'm a writer, so what I find compelling might not be the same as what non-writers do. There's a line in the Cameron script, describing the ship, as I recall, upon which Ripley is found in suspended animation in the opening scenes. It's a shot description, so you don't hear it in the film. I don't have the script at hand, but the line as I remember it was, "It was cold and remote -- like the love of God."
That's a writer playing with language.That's terrific metaphor, and nobody who just saw the movies would know it was. Cameron likes science fiction, and it shows in his work. Aliens was a horror movie. A2 was a science fiction picture. Sure, A1 was scary, but I kept looking at the screen and thinking what a bunch of idiots! I was on that ship, I wouldn't be going to pee without everybody going with me. We'd sleep in a pile and if the cat ran by in the night, it would be toast.
A lot of horror movies work because the people aren't as smart as the monster. I seldom have sympathy for somebody who does something so stupid I start rooting for the monster to get them ...
Part of it is taste, part of it is not being caught in the tropes. The scariest monster movies are where everybody does the right thing and the monster still gets them ...
Well, I'd have to disagree with that.
Brett thought the alien was as big as Jones.
Dallas was working with everybody to try to force it into an airlock.
Lambert and Parker were working together while Ripley was loading the ship and the self destruct. Parker actually tried to fight it, while Lambert was frozen.
The only stupid action in Alien was Ripley trying to get her cat, but it makes a lot more sense after she goes after Newt in Aliens.
Sure, the scene action and descriptions were cool. But character wise, I'm talking Cameron's character writing here, was no-where near as good as the actors made it. They felt so...dull on the paper. It was those folk and Cameron's direction of those actors that made that film.
I know it must be somewhat annoying, what with the barrage of oncoming questions, but i have one more question........... Where do you get your influence... i ask this because I too am somewhat of an author, i have written one short story about the Halo game. I ask this because I got my ideas from the people and things around me, I was just wondering is writting supposed to be planned and thought out or can you just wing it and make a great story?
Quote from: Alienseseses on Mar 27, 2008, 02:32:50 AM
Well, I'd have to disagree with that.
Brett thought the alien was as big as Jones.
Dallas was working with everybody to try to force it into an airlock.
Lambert and Parker were working together while Ripley was loading the ship and the self destruct. Parker actually tried to fight it, while Lambert was frozen.
The only stupid action in Alien was Ripley trying to get her cat, but it makes a lot more sense after she goes after Newt in Aliens.
I thought the fact that Ripley goes to ready the self destruct herself was pretty stupid. She should of went went with Parker and Lambert and vice versa.
She would have died had she went with Parker and Lambert.
Quote from: Alienseseses on Mar 27, 2008, 02:32:50 AM
Well, I'd have to disagree with that.
Brett thought the alien was as big as Jones.
Dallas was working with everybody to try to force it into an airlock.
Lambert and Parker were working together while Ripley was loading the ship and the self destruct. Parker actually tried to fight it, while Lambert was frozen.
The only stupid action in Alien was Ripley trying to get her cat, but it makes a lot more sense after she goes after Newt in Aliens.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Lambert was a complete and total dumbass. She just sat there and let the damn thing come and get her without even trying to get away. As soon as I saw that Alien I would have ran like Carl Lewis in the Olympics. Whether it would have worked or not, I still would have made the attempt to escape. She just sat there. And if I was Parker, if Lambert didn't move, I would have roasted them both. Then I would have broke out the marshmallows. And like Steve said, as soon as that cat jumped out it would have been fillet of Jones. People>>>cats.
People can get frozen in fear. It's when you just can't control yourself.
Hey there again Mr Perry.
was just curious how you feel about the fact that Dachande has become somewhat a cult and very iconic character among us Pred fans.
did you ever imagine he'd be rememebred so well
and also was anyone/thing in particular an inspiration for him?
Just been speaking to Hicks about his thoughts on Turnabout (not read it), and he got me to thinking:
What are your thoughts on the idea that, just because Alien, Predator and Aliens were so good that we shouldn't even bother trying to come up with good stories because it's never going to get to that same level again? In other words, the biggest apology for the current AvP movies.
Just from what Hicks has been saying about Turnabout, and hell, from reading your previous Aliens novels, it's pretty clear to me that even though I may not like your characterisations and plot extensions a lot of the time, you clearly put a shitload of effort into it.
In case you were wondering, I was raving about how good your characters in Turnabout were. My review'll be up soon.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 07, 2008, 07:11:02 AM
Just been speaking to Hicks about his thoughts on Turnabout (not read it), and he got me to thinking:
What are your thoughts on the idea that, just because Alien, Predator and Aliens were so good that we shouldn't even bother trying to come up with good stories because it's never going to get to that same level again? In other words, the biggest apology for the current AvP movies.
That is the lamest excuse ever. Those people live in some alternate universe. And some of them are fourteen also. When you're fourteen you know two things: Jack and shit.
Quote from: The Diesel on Apr 07, 2008, 07:56:43 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 07, 2008, 07:11:02 AM
Just been speaking to Hicks about his thoughts on Turnabout (not read it), and he got me to thinking:
What are your thoughts on the idea that, just because Alien, Predator and Aliens were so good that we shouldn't even bother trying to come up with good stories because it's never going to get to that same level again? In other words, the biggest apology for the current AvP movies.
That is the lamest excuse ever. Those people live in some alternate universe. And some of them are fourteen also. When you're fourteen you know two things: Jack and shit.
.......And Jack left town.
Okay, a little philosophy behind my most recent Predator novel:
Reasonable minds can disagree, and so a lot of what floats one person's boat in an A, P, or AvP story is going to sink somebody else's. Nature of the media. We don't all have to agree on every thing all the time, and if somebody doesn't agree with me, that isn't an automatic promotion to idiot of the week.
I believe that readers or watchers will forgive you a lot if you can tell a good story. If you care about the people in it, and you want to see them triumph in the end, they'll go with you. Ripley is by far and away my favorite character in all the series because the writers have taken the time to make her somebody you want to root for. In A2, every kid in the audience wanted Ripley to be his or her mom -- she fought monsters to save the little girl, and she knew just how scary those monsters were.
Without Ripley, all the A's, they're ijust a fireworks displays. Pretty, fun, maybe, but no heart. And Ellen didn't get served well after A and A2, in my mind.
And that's what some of the the movies have been lacking -- a serious shortage of characters about whom anybody gives a sour owl poot.
I don't always hit the mark, but I'm always aiming at characters I want readers to find interesting, and who they care about enough to worry if they are going to live or die. Doesn't matter how simple the plot or how convoluted, if you don't give a rat's ass about the players, you won't invest any real energy in them.
Oh, dear, look, the xenomorphs wiped out half the town and a whole a bunch of marines. Ho, hum.
Oh, look, Vasquez is going to set off that grenade and take a bunch of the suckers with her. I don't know which matters most to you, but I know which one matters to me. I liked Vasquez. That one line she replies to "Hey, Vasquez have you ever been mistaken for a man?" that is priceless: "No. Have you?"
I fell in love with that bad girl right that second. And I knew she was gonna die, and die well.
Yeah, EFX are nice to watch, and scary monsters get your blood racing, but if there's nobody to root for, so what?
With Turnabout, I went back to a simple story, and I put peole front and center who I found interesting. I liked Sloane. I thought Regal was a pretty good bad guy. Even Mary was somebody to worry about. The Predators went back to the original movie. If readers like my people, I did my job. If they wanted more yautja stuff, I can understand that, but it wasn't the story I got to offer this time.
Two things you look for as a writer: Did I tell the story I wanted to tell? And did I do it well? Sometimes you don't know the answer until it's too late to fix it, but that's what I shoot for. I'm happy with how Turnabout came out. I think it would make a great movie.
I felt Turnabout was Sloane's story more than anything. Mary was very interesting to start with until she turned into the damsel but to be fair, that wasn't until after the cave stuff. But Sloane...his evolution throughout the novel, it was fantastic. I don't know why but Predator authors seem to have a better grasp on their characters. :)
Quote from: DarkStar117 on Mar 27, 2008, 07:15:47 AM
I know it must be somewhat annoying, what with the barrage of oncoming questions, but i have one more question........... Where do you get your influence... i ask this because I too am somewhat of an author, i have written one short story about the Halo game. I ask this because I got my ideas from the people and things around me, I was just wondering is writting supposed to be planned and thought out or can you just wing it and make a great story?
Sorry I missed this earlier.
Ideas come from everywhere. Most of the ones I've played with in the A, P, or AvP universe came from the graphic novels, so that's an easy one. Turnabout came up because I wanted to reverse the normal roles and have the human be as good as the Predators -- back closer to what Ahnahl did in the first P movie. I threw in poachers so nobody in the book would be sure of what was going on at first, and then I just watched the movie in my head and wrote it all down.
Ideas are cheap. You can come up with enough in an afternoon that will take you the rest of your life to write. It's the transfer from idea to story that's important, the execution.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 08, 2008, 10:43:20 PM
I felt Turnabout was Sloane's story more than anything. Mary was very interesting to start with until she turned into the damsel but to be fair, that wasn't until after the cave stuff. But Sloane...his evolution throughout the novel, it was fantastic. I don't know why but Predator authors seem to have a better grasp on their characters. :)
Well, Mary had to be a damsel for part of the story, in order to pay off the gun stuff we laid in. Her arc was as important as Sloane's, because if we didn't pay it off, the story would have had a way different ending.
I do get that. It was just when I started to loose the interest in her independent attitude. TBH I would have prefer for her not to use that gun, to stick to her convictions but that's how things go. In the end she saved Sloane. But still I'm very impressed. I thoroughly enjoyed the novel. Hope you're looking forward to an ass kisssing review.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 08, 2008, 10:53:25 PM
I do get that. It was just when I started to loose the interest in her independent attitude. TBH I would have prefer for her not to use that gun, to stick to her convictions but that's how things go. In the end she saved Sloane. But still I'm very impressed. I thoroughly enjoyed the novel. Hope you're looking forward to an ass kisssing review.
Essence of fiction is change, and Mary had to make that shift or her arc wouldn't have worked. She stopped being a victim, sucked it up, and did the right thing. Got to be willing to shift your convictions if you have a come-to-realize moment -- that's what it's all about. If she had stuck to her old road, both she and Sloane would have wound up in somebody's trophy rack. Couldn't have that after all they went through.
I know you aren't supposed to pay attention to reviews, good or bad, but I confess I like the good ones better. Never hurts to hear that somebody got their money's worth.
Hey Steve,
Has Stephanie written any other sci-fi books other than the Resident Evil series? I frigging loved those books! I have every one of them. Just wondering. Thanks.
Hey, Steve.
If you had the chance to write an A, P, or AVP film, would you take it? Would you talk to Fox?
Quote from: The Diesel on Apr 09, 2008, 01:26:12 AM
Hey Steve,
Has Stephanie written any other sci-fi books other than the Resident Evil series? I frigging loved those books! I have every one of them. Just wondering. Thanks.
Aliens and Star Trek off the top of my head.
I've had a quick Google and can't find anything by SD that isn't licensed. Which, as far as I know, is rather unusual.
I remember Mike Stackpole once saying you have to have a body of original work behind you before license holders approach you to write for franchises.
Unless my searching skills are failing, SD doesn't appear to have any 'original' books. ???
Danelle -- she prefers her middle name -- has written a bunch of stuff -- Resident Evil, Aliens, AvP, some Star Trek novels, and even a Xena Warrior princess, though the publishers screwed with that so she used a pseudonym, "Stella Howard." (The names of the dogs she had at the time ...)
Working on her own horror novel now, plus some more Trek stuff.
Quote from: Alienseseses on Apr 09, 2008, 02:30:47 AM
Hey, Steve.
If you had the chance to write an A, P, or AVP film, would you take it? Would you talk to Fox?
Sure, if they let me take a real shot at it. But I'm not holding my breath ...
Quote from: steveperry on Apr 08, 2008, 10:37:44 PM
Okay, a little philosophy behind my most recent Predator novel:
[long post]
So essentially, you agree that being lenient just because the originals were so good is bullcrap? Huh, maybe you
should write the next AvP movie ...
Hey there again Mr Perry.
was just curious how you feel about the fact that Dachande has become somewhat a cult and very iconic character among us Pred fans.
did you ever imagine he'd be rememebred so well
and also was anyone/thing in particular an inspiration for him?
Quote from: steveperry on Apr 09, 2008, 06:24:12 AM
Danelle -- she prefers her middle name -- has written a bunch of stuff -- Resident Evil, Aliens, AvP, some Star Trek novels, and even a Xena Warrior princess, though the publishers screwed with that so she used a pseudonym, "Stella Howard." (The names of the dogs she had at the time ...)
Working on her own horror novel now, plus some more Trek stuff.
Thanks. I'll make sure to refer to her as Danelle. Let us know when the horror novel comes out. I'd definitely like to check it out.
Quote from: nexus on Apr 09, 2008, 12:38:45 PM
Hey there again Mr Perry.
was just curious how you feel about the fact that Dachande has become somewhat a cult and very iconic character among us Pred fans.
did you ever imagine he'd be rememebred so well
and also was anyone/thing in particular an inspiration for him?
I didn't expect any of this would be remembered much past the original movies. When Mike Richardson asked me if I was interested in doing the first novelizations, I said sure, but I didn't have any idea how well the books would do. Some of them have gone back for twenty printings. Who knew?
So I take it you don't have a real interest in doing anymore Alien related novelizations?
Free concept if its approved by DH. Figured some of the vets of the original adaptions would want to put their own fingerprints on the eu media.
Why do novelizations? Why not original novels?
Twas what I meant.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 10, 2008, 10:38:07 AM
Why do novelizations? Why not original novels?
To begin with, that was the only option, novelizations of existing material -- that's was what DH had the license to do. It's only been relatively recently that a chance to do original material came up, and even then, Fox has to approve the idea. We sent DH five or six ideas for an original novel, and they liked two of them -- my daughter and i wound up blending those two into one for Turnabout. Originally, Sloane would have been tromping around in Idaho ...
My problem is not that I don't have fun playing in the A, P, or AvP universes, it's a matter of time. I usually have several projects going at once, and at the moment, I've got multiple books working -- a doorstop fantasy is just off to my agent; I'm wring an urban fantasy; and there is a space opera and a mystery novel I want to get to. Mike Richardson and I have written a horror movie script, and if we sell that, DH will do the movie tie-in novelization, and likely I'll write that.
Mr Perry
Been a fan of your work and Stephanie's for a few years now, will we ever find out what happens to Machiko or has it already been done
Thank you
Fearless Freak
QuoteMike Richardson and I have written a horror movie script
Well come on then - make wit the details.
Quote from: SM on Apr 11, 2008, 02:53:55 AM
QuoteMike Richardson and I have written a horror movie script
Well come on then - make wit the details.
Wait for AVP3, then you'll find out what happens... ;)
A Predator with some bizarrely punctuated name like "L'ar-ge Co'k" pulls a Wolf and hands Aliens their asses for 90 minutes. Steamy sex scenes. Gritty dialogue. Aliens no more than cannon fodder to be blown away. Predators speak an illogical vowel-based language. Tough hero chick saves the day.
Again.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 11, 2008, 08:42:19 AM
A Predator with some bizarrely punctuated name like "L'ar-ge Co'k" pulls a Wolf and hands Aliens their asses for 90 minutes. Steamy sex scenes. Gritty dialogue. Aliens no more than cannon fodder to be blown away. Predators speak an illogical vowel-based language. Tough hero chick saves the day.
Again.
theyve remade avp and avp-r already?! :P
Quote from: SM on Apr 11, 2008, 02:53:55 AM
QuoteMike Richardson and I have written a horror movie script
Well come on then - make wit the details.
Get a copy of the DH miniseries, "The Secret." It's based on the script.
As for Machiko, I dunno. If somebody did something else with her, other than that kind-of nod in AvP1, I haven't noticed it.
steve when are you gonna write a novelization of resident eveil 4?
You said on the AvPR DVD that Aliens are stupid. The Queen is obviously the smartest yes, but you made it sound like the Warriors are completely numb up there. What makes you think this?
Quote from: War Wager on May 16, 2008, 07:49:17 PM
You said on the AvPR DVD that Aliens are stupid. The Queen is obviously the smartest yes, but you made it sound like the Warriors are completely numb up there. What makes you think this?
This is covered in great detail earlier in the thread.
Like most people who think Aliens are stupid, it seems to pretty much just come down to the sentry gun scene.
Quote from: SiL on May 16, 2008, 09:09:14 PM
Quote from: War Wager on May 16, 2008, 07:49:17 PM
You said on the AvPR DVD that Aliens are stupid. The Queen is obviously the smartest yes, but you made it sound like the Warriors are completely numb up there. What makes you think this?
This is covered in great detail earlier in the thread.
Like most people who think Aliens are stupid, it seems to pretty much just come down to the sentry gun scene.
what?! he thinks they're stupid!? is he
blind?
No, he just doesn't care.
He doesn't at all.
Predators are smarter but it's been shown Alien's are smarter in certain situations. Predators are over confident and cocky and this is what allows the Aliens to change the situation to their advantage. Like the Celtic vs Grid fight; Grid launched acid at him to keep him occupied while it hid somewhere. It waited until he was right below it and then it struck from above. If Alien's are really not that smart, wouldn't they just keep attacking all the time?
The sentry gun scene in Aliens is probably what lowered them the most; a hoard of screaming space bugs charging in a mindless rage to their ultimate doom. Though when you think about that scene, it could have been a strategic move. There are obviously hundereds of Alien's and they could have known that the guns would run out of ammo eventually, they would have met with guns before.
Some people act like Aliens is the only movie in the franchise. :P
I don't think it's any surprise that Aliens is Perry's favourite.
Ah, no doubt.
We need an author who like's Alien the best, I'd read that novel in a heartbeat.
Guys! Guys! Calm it down.
Quote from: War Wager on May 16, 2008, 10:58:35 PM
He doesn't at all.
Predators are smarter but it's been shown Alien's are smarter in certain situations. Predators are over confident and cocky and this is what allows the Aliens to change the situation to their advantage. Like the Celtic vs Grid fight; Grid launched acid at him to keep him occupied while it hid somewhere. It waited until he was right below it and then it struck from above. If Alien's are really not that smart, wouldn't they just keep attacking all the time?
The sentry gun scene in Aliens is probably what lowered them the most; a hoard of screaming space bugs charging in a mindless rage to their ultimate doom. Though when you think about that scene, it could have been a strategic move. There are obviously hundereds of Alien's and they could have known that the guns would run out of ammo eventually, they would have met with guns before.
Some people act like Aliens is the only movie in the franchise. :P
I always thought that was a strategic move, they were sacraficing themselves to run down the bullets in the sentry guns.
I'm not out to convince anybody of the rightness of my path -- I'm just sayin' what I believe. I never saw anything that convinced me the basic xenomorph drone had any more smarts than a German Shepherd. That's how I see it.
Go to a dog show and watch the critters run an agility course, or herd sheep. I didn't say the aliens were completely stupid, I said they weren't very intelligent, compared to people or Yautja.
I've been over why I liked the second movie more than the first, for reasons both personal and professional, and I'm not telling anybody to change their own tastes, just that I have my own. Jumping up and down and calling me names isn't going to make me change my mind. It isn't a matter of whether I care or not, it's a matter of how I see it.
I don't mind if you disagree. Why should it bother you that I do?
Quote from: steveperry on May 20, 2008, 12:11:14 AM
the basic xenomorph drone had any more smarts than a German Shepherd.
Thats pretty much what I thought
Quote from: steveperry on May 20, 2008, 12:11:14 AM
. I didn't say the aliens were completely stupid, I said they weren't very intelligent, compared to people or Yautja.
In the interests of fairness, I suppose I have to offer that I don't
think I said that. I honestly don't recall the entirely of that interview they did for the DVD, and I haven't seen whatever piece of my commentary they used -- I think it's only only the BluRay, and all I've got is the Unrated Special Edition -- I ain't on that.
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion and I guess that fair enough, but you really made it sound like Aliens were completely brianless. With AvPR spawing new fans all the time, it worries me that thats the opinion they'll take on too. It's fair to say that Yautja are much smarter, I mean they've built ships, weapons and have an entire culture. But, it's also fair to say that Aliens are smarter when it comes to conflict/survival.
^^^ well hey, at least we can say that they have acid for blood, are adaptible to almost ANY climate (preds can't do that) and look pretty scary looking but are just mindless stupidity and are killing machines who don't think....
Except they aren't "mindless stupidity" and they do think. This has been shown several times throughout pretty much any movie that isn't AvPR.
Oh sweet nibblets... :P
Aliens are smart creatures. They have an instict to kill yes, but they try many different ways in order to do it. They're all possibly linked with inter-Hive communication which is intelligence in itself.
And hell, if people would actually do some research on ants, even that allegory would make them pretty damned intelligent creatures.
Anyone see Inspector Rex? German Shepherds are smart bitches. Literally.
okay, okay first of:
Quote from: War Wager on May 23, 2008, 10:04:43 PM
Oh sweet nibblets... :P
have you been watching to many episodes of 'Hannah Montana' latley? LOL
alruight back on topic: you convinced me aliens are smart, they sense fear like smakes do i guess so yeah, aliens are like nomral monkeys and ape that learn as they evolve
have you guys heard of the Rasbeary Ants? I aw them on Attack of the Show, aperantly they are attracted to electronic signals and when sprayed at with poison which kills some of them, the ants then use the dead ants to build a bridge out of them and cross iver the poisonus affected area!
How would you know that is said in Hannah Montana? ;)
And luckily I did convince you, I could prove you wrong many times. Choose any Alien movie (minus Requiem of coarse) and you have some awesome intelligence/team work.
well, i don't watch Hannah montana a lot, usaully once or twice every 3-6 weeks when i'm bored...that rasberry ant thing I was talkin' about, go to youtube or any other video source and type in 'Crazy Rasberry Ants'
I'd pick Aliens and Alien Cubed (Alien 3)
I'll check that out. ^
What do you mean you'd pick Aliens and Alien3? For me to prove you wrong on? :)
Quote from: War Wager on May 23, 2008, 10:23:30 PM
I'll check that out. ^
What do you mean you'd pick Aliens and Alien3? For me to prove you wrong on? :)
noooo to show that they are really indeed smart at times....i still wanna see that alien building a damn ladder from garbage supplies it found from AVP-R it could be interesting and relly stupid and silly but still...an alien building a LADDER!!!! c'mon!!!
Hey Steve,
I am reading Shadows of the Empire right now and it is great! I can't put it down. I got it this morning and I just can't put the thing down.
Quote from: The Diesel on May 27, 2008, 09:10:53 PM
Hey Steve,
I am reading Shadows of the Empire right now and it is great! I can't put it down. I got it this morning and I just can't put the thing down.
Ah yes I've read my copy several times. Great book!
Quote from: Flaming Firefox on May 29, 2008, 11:02:28 PM
Quote from: The Diesel on May 27, 2008, 09:10:53 PM
Hey Steve,
I am reading Shadows of the Empire right now and it is great! I can't put it down. I got it this morning and I just can't put the thing down.
Ah yes I've read my copy several times. Great book!
It's an AWESOME book. A dude on facebook said this and I think it sums it up pretty well:
QuoteOne of the greatest Star Wars novels. Proof? It had its own toy line.
Priceless.
Quote from: The Diesel on Jun 01, 2008, 03:53:57 AM
Quote from: Flaming Firefox on May 29, 2008, 11:02:28 PM
Quote from: The Diesel on May 27, 2008, 09:10:53 PM
Hey Steve,
I am reading Shadows of the Empire right now and it is great! I can't put it down. I got it this morning and I just can't put the thing down.
Ah yes I've read my copy several times. Great book!
It's an AWESOME book. A dude on facebook said this and I think it sums it up pretty well:
QuoteOne of the greatest Star Wars novels. Proof? It had its own toy line.
[/b]
Priceless.
And It had its own videogame for the N64 ;D
Quote from: XenoVC on Jun 01, 2008, 04:03:57 AM
Quote from: The Diesel on Jun 01, 2008, 03:53:57 AM
Quote from: Flaming Firefox on May 29, 2008, 11:02:28 PM
Quote from: The Diesel on May 27, 2008, 09:10:53 PM
Hey Steve,
I am reading Shadows of the Empire right now and it is great! I can't put it down. I got it this morning and I just can't put the thing down.
Ah yes I've read my copy several times. Great book!
It's an AWESOME book. A dude on facebook said this and I think it sums it up pretty well:
QuoteOne of the greatest Star Wars novels. Proof? It had its own toy line.
[/b]
Priceless.
And It had its own videogame for the N64 ;D
That was an awesome game when it came out. Not as good as the book, but it really put you in the action.
My other favorite Star Wars books are the Timothy Zahn trilogy, Heir to the Empire, Darkforce Rising, and Last Command. The best, also has their own toys by the way.
Shadows was a fun book to write. I was pleased with how it came out.
There are a score of other people that were pleased with how it came out as well. ;)
Quote from: steveperry on May 20, 2008, 12:11:14 AM
the basic xenomorph drone had any more smarts than a German Shepherd.
right, well that makes lots of sense seeing as how german shepherd are always cutting the power to buildings, using elevators, setting traps, and escaping high security holding cells....wait.
Like I said, you ever been to an agility dog show? High-level obedience trials? Seen what a smart dog can do? It's pretty amazing to watch. But in no way does it make dogs as bright as people. Sure, a bulldog can use a skateboard, but it can't fly an FTL spaceship, put on a shiftsuit, and then go hunting armed humans or hard meat xenomorphs, much less breed the latter to train young warriors.
I don't believe the xenomorph drones are as smart as the Yautja, nor humans, and if you want to believe that, that's fine, we'll just disagree. I think the preponderance of evidence is on my side of the table.
who was it that decided to make the workers drones when they are widely accepted to be female?
Aliens do and have always shown in the movies, intelligence of all the basic insticts. They're not smart enough to fly ships, build weapons etc because they don't need to. They're naturally smart creatures as soon as they're born, unlike those scaley hunters.
I believe the drones have basic, but limited, problem-solving intelligence. The German Sheppard analogy is a good one. It fits.
Quote from: The Diesel on Jun 04, 2008, 06:57:12 PM
I believe the drones have basic, but limited, problem-solving intelligence. The German Sheppard analogy is a good one. It fits.
The two halves of that post don't fit. Inspector Rex
solved crimes; 'limited problem-solving intelligence' my ass, if they're as smart as German Sheppards :P
Quote from: The Diesel on Jun 04, 2008, 06:57:12 PM
I believe the drones have basic, but limited, problem-solving intelligence. The German Sheppard analogy is a good one. It fits.
The Aliens in Alien Res showed problem solving skills when they escaped their enclosure. The AvP Aliens knew how to free the queen although you could make an argument the queen communicated how to theml, either way it raises their intelligence level. The Alien in the first movie somehow made it on the escape shuttle, it didn't seem like just coincidence.
Quote from: SiL on Jun 04, 2008, 09:49:09 PM
Quote from: The Diesel on Jun 04, 2008, 06:57:12 PM
I believe the drones have basic, but limited, problem-solving intelligence. The German Sheppard analogy is a good one. It fits.
The two halves of that post don't fit. Inspector Rex solved crimes; 'limited problem-solving intelligence' my ass, if they're as smart as German Sheppards :P
I was rethinking the dog analogy thing myself. I think Aliens do have limited problem solving intelligence. Yeah, I don't think the dog thing fits. I was thinking it didn't right after I posted it. I guess I just wanted to side with Steve because I love his work. I was just thinking that I don't know any ultra-violent German Sheppards with opposable digits that solve problems and are excellent human-killers.
Nah; when you think about it, the intelligence of a German Sheppard is really nothing to balk at, given their capacity for intelligence. It's when you start saying "average dog" that you start moving into vague insult territory.
The Aliens in AvPR didn't act any more intelligent than goldfish, let alone an average dog.
Quote from: SiL on Jun 05, 2008, 06:17:16 AM
Nah; when you think about it, the intelligence of a German Sheppard is really nothing to balk at, given their capacity for intelligence. It's when you start saying "average dog" that you start moving into vague insult territory.
The Aliens in AvPR didn't act any more intelligent than goldfish, let alone an average dog.
Almost all dogs that seem smart because of the tricks they can do have had intensive training to get them to that point, even German Sheppards. I've ownded dogs my whole life and I currently have several and I can tell you they just don't pop out knowing how to do complex stuff. It takes a lot of work.
Comparing Aliens to dogs is stupid. They're not like anything on Earth.
Quote from: War Wager on Jun 05, 2008, 02:23:41 PM
Comparing Aliens to dogs is stupid. They're not like anything on Earth.
I have to agree, they certainly don't exhibit any behaviors in common with dogs so I don't see how they can easily be compaired to them.
Quote from: Flaming Firefox on Jun 05, 2008, 01:18:59 PM
Almost all dogs that seem smart because of the tricks they can do have had intensive training to get them to that point, even German Sheppards. I've ownded dogs my whole life and I currently have several and I can tell you they just don't pop out knowing how to do complex stuff. It takes a lot of work.
Well no
duh. Humans don't pop out as rocket scientists and I'm sure Preds don't, either. But it's the
capacity for that intelligence. And when you consider that the Aliens have this level of intelligence when born, just think of where they could go if we saw a hive that was older than 3 weeks.
Quote from: Flaming Firefox on Jun 05, 2008, 09:44:10 PM
I have to agree, they certainly don't exhibit any behaviors in common with dogs so I don't see how they can easily be compaired to them.
No-one was talking about having the same behaviour ...
Heres something that'll put Alien intelligence into perspective:
Say you've got an newly molted Alien standing in a dark, dank corridor that has masses of pipes lining the ceiling. Theres a gun at the side of the wall. Is it going to pick up the gun and keep a finger on the trigger? No. It'll most likley place the thing in plain view in the middle of the corridor and hide in the pipes above. Note that this is purely just to kill something, to satisfy it's most primal instict, but in order to do it it needs to use it's surroundings. If Aliens weren't that smart wouldn't they would just parade around the corridors and charge at anything they come across?
QuoteWell no duh. Humans don't pop out as rocket scientists and I'm sure Preds don't, either. But it's the capacity for that intelligence. And when you consider that the Aliens have this level of intelligence when born, just think of where they could go if we saw a hive that was older than 3 weeks.
Thanks for the sarcasm, ::)
Yeah, that's the point I'm making. Aliens have that intelligence right off the start, whereas most other intelligent creatures have to be taught everything. Everything I said made sense in relation to post 329.
QuoteNo-one was talking about having the same behaviour ...
Ugh, again the Alien was being compaired to dogs, I'm just saying they don't compair well, who gives a shit if someone compaired their behaviors or not.
Quote from: Flaming Firefox on Jun 05, 2008, 11:45:40 PM
Ugh, again the Alien was being compaired to dogs, I'm just saying they don't compair well, who gives a shit if someone compaired their behaviors or not.
Well, you, obviously, seeing as you were saying it was a bad comparison because they don't have similar behaviour. No-one was saying anything about behaviour. They were speaking about intelligence. Whole differently ball game.
Quote from: War Wager on Jun 05, 2008, 02:23:41 PM
Comparing Aliens to dogs is stupid. They're not like anything on Earth.
Um, just to, you know, keep this in perspective ...
Dogs are real. I have a couple curled up on the floor of my office.
Aliens, in the form of the xenomorph bugs about which much as been said here,
don't exist. No such creatures. They are like Robin Hood, Sherlock Holmes, and Princess Leia -- made-up characters brought to ersatz-life by writers, actors, directors, producers, publishers, printers and the guy sitting in the booth up behind the seats at your friendly, neighborhood multiplex.
So one can imbue them with whatever powers and abilities one wishes. In the first movie, they looked scary-cool, but they make no structural sense whatsoever. They are fantasy creatures who would collapse under their own weight in one gravity. Any engineers here? Any biologists?
As one of the guys who got to present them a few times, with the blessings of the guys who own it all, I see humans, Predators, and Aliens, and no matter how I slice it, the Aliens come up last on the smarts-scale.
As I've said all along, your mileage may vary, but don't get too het up about it -- it's all make-believe.
It's once-upon-a-time -- don't give yourself ulcers over it. Life is too short.
Quote from: steveperry on Jun 06, 2008, 05:21:57 AM
Aliens, in the form of the xenomorph bugs about which much as been said here, don't exit.
Stage right, followed by bear.
Bare EVEN!!!!
I apologise if it looks like I'm taking this to seriously Mr Perry, I get a little carried away at times. :-[ But the fact is humans can be smarter than A/P, Aliens can be smarter than H/P and Predators can be smarter than H/A.
I think in fairness it just comes down to the fact Aliens don't have egos to worry about. Unclouded by conscious, remorse, or delusions or morality - You're less likely to make stupid mistakes if all you're thinking about is your goal.
See also, the death of every Predator vs. the death of every Alien. Preds always die when they get cocky; Aliens only die when you do your damnedest to kill them because they're not going to make stupid mistakes and let slip.
And no, I don't count "running into sentry guns" a stupid mistake.
Quote from: SiL on Jun 06, 2008, 04:17:07 AM
Quote from: Flaming Firefox on Jun 05, 2008, 11:45:40 PM
Ugh, again the Alien was being compaired to dogs, I'm just saying they don't compair well, who gives a shit if someone compaired their behaviors or not.
Well, you, obviously, seeing as you were saying it was a bad comparison because they don't have similar behaviour. No-one was saying anything about behaviour. They were speaking about intelligence. Whole differently ball game.
I will only say this- often time behavior can reveal intellignece. So no they aren't a different ball game.
the problem with the dog argument is that dogs have to be trained very rigerously by their owners to accomplish what they do at dog shows. aliens on the other hand learn by themselves in a much much shorter amount of time. they are obviously much smarter then any dog.
Quote from: steveperry on Jun 06, 2008, 05:21:57 AM
Quote from: War Wager on Jun 05, 2008, 02:23:41 PM
Comparing Aliens to dogs is stupid. They're not like anything on Earth.
Um, just to, you know, keep this in perspective ...
Dogs are real. I have a couple curled up on the floor of my office.
Aliens, in the form of the xenomorph bugs about which much as been said here, don't exist. No such creatures. They are like Robin Hood, Sherlock Holmes, and Princess Leia -- made-up characters brought to ersatz-life by writers, actors, directors, producers, publishers, printers and the guy sitting in the booth up behind the seats at your friendly, neighborhood multiplex.
So one can imbue them with whatever powers and abilities one wishes. In the first movie, they looked scary-cool, but they make no structural sense whatsoever. They are fantasy creatures who would collapse under their own weight in one gravity. Any engineers here? Any biologists?
As one of the guys who got to present them a few times, with the blessings of the guys who own it all, I see humans, Predators, and Aliens, and no matter how I slice it, the Aliens come up last on the smarts-scale.
As I've said all along, your mileage may vary, but don't get too het up about it -- it's all make-believe.
It's once-upon-a-time -- don't give yourself ulcers over it. Life is too short.
I'm a scientist with a lot of engineering background so I know exactly what you're talking about. They would collapse under their own weight. That's one of the things about the American Godzilla movie. That thing could never exist in Earth's gravity. The sheer weight of it's body would crush itself.
I do agree that the Aliens do stack up last behind humans and Predators.
Why would they collapse under their own weight?
Quote from: SiL on Jun 08, 2008, 09:14:28 AM
Why would they collapse under their own weight?
I'm wondering what reasons they would give too.
According to what I've read the Alien weighs around 350lbs. That isn't exactly that heavy. Especially if you consider they have an endo and exoskeletal systems to support them. I'm sorry I don't buy that argument. At least the original Aliens body is built like a human. A 350lb human at that height isn't snapping under their own weight. I'm sure you can find lots of pro-basketball players that big.
That's just a rediculous argument.
QuotePreds always die when they get cocky; Aliens only die when you do your damnedest to kill them because they're not going to make stupid mistakes and let slip.
What??
Look at the characters of every alien and predator movie, look at Harrigan and Dutch, they had a much harder time killing a Predator then any Character in the alien movies. Ripley dont even had a scratch in the fist alien movie, but Harrigan And Dutch were going through hell to kill
one Predator and not
20 - 30 aliens like in Aliens.
f**k, aliens cant even manage to kill a little girl!!
Its really ridiculous to say an alien gives you a harder time then a predator, look, if there is one alien out there and you had a shotgun, you have a chance of 70% to survive and maybe a 10 - 20 % chance to kill a Predator. Thats the way it is.
QuoteAnd no, I don't count "running into sentry guns" a stupid mistake.
But it is.
Ohh and Aliens are the least smartest beings when you compare them to us or to Predators. Thats the way it is.
QuoteQuote
And no, I don't count "running into sentry guns" a stupid mistake.
But it is.
Ohh and Aliens are the least smartest beings when you compare them to us or to Predators. Thats the way it is.
In certain situations, no they're not.
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Jun 08, 2008, 02:58:35 PM
but Harrigan And Dutch were going through hell to kill one Predator and not 20 - 30 aliens like in Aliens.
Dutch and Harrigan didn't have an airlock handy. Not to mention they still only won when the Predator got cocky, stopped paying attention, and let itself get killed.
Quotef**k, aliens cant even manage to kill a little girl!!
So you're saying Newt was the only little girl in the colony? The colony of 157 people that all got killed? Are you really
that retarded?
QuoteIts really ridiculous to say an alien gives you a harder time then a predator, look, if there is one alien out there and you had a shotgun, you have a chance of 70% to survive and maybe a 10 - 20 % chance to kill a Predator. Thats the way it is.
And this has
nothing to do with what I said.
I said Predators always die when they get cocky.
Aliens don't.
It may be easier to kill an Alien, but when you do kill it, it's because you fought. When you kill a Predator, it's because
it got stupid.
QuoteBut it is.
It's only a mistake if you know you're not supposed to do it, but happen to do it anyway. The Aliens had never encountered sentry guns before, so assuming they should know how to deal with them is stupid.
When they attacked the second time, clearly what they were doing was working because the weapons ran out. If the Aliens had pressed on a few seconds more, they would've got through.
And considering sending waves of individuals into guns is something
humans have a long history of doing, I don't see how you can say that instance proves they're less intelligent.
Johnny needs a big stamp on his big forehead that says "OWNED". What a great reply, SiL.
Quote from: SiL on Jun 08, 2008, 09:14:28 AM
Why would they collapse under their own weight?
Well, maybe not collapse per se, but the tubes on the back would be a serious impediment as far as making them top heavy. I'm thinking more along the lines of the American Godzilla collapsing under its own weight. I probably shouldn't have said anything.
If the tubes are just that - Tubes - then they wouldn't be all that heavy anyway.
QuoteDutch and Harrigan didn't have an airlock handy.
No, they just had the most modern and powerfull weapons available, including alien technology.
QuoteSo you're saying Newt was the only little girl in the colony? The colony of 157 people that all got killed? Are you really that retarded?
I never said it was the only girl, where did i say that?
i just said that they couldnt even kill
a little girl, which they couldnt.
Quote
I said Predators always die when they get cocky.
Aliens don't.
That just makes the alien even weaker, Predators die when they get cocky, otherwise there is almost no way to kill them, aliens
try their very best and are still killed...
That makes them even weaker.
Quote
It may be easier to kill an Alien, but when you do kill it, it's because you fought.
So harrigan and dutch didnt fight??
Are you
that retarded?
Hell, what did ripley do?? She opened an airlock, wow!!
Dutch and harrigan fought atleast with weapons.
QuoteIt's only a mistake if you know you're not supposed to do it, but happen to do it anyway. The Aliens had never encountered sentry guns before, so assuming they should know how to deal with them is stupid.
Yes, but its not like there were 3 or 4 running into them before knowing that it can kill them but they were running into the things in droves, even the
second time.
So your theory doesnt make any sense.
QuoteJohnny needs a big stamp on his big forehead that says "OWNED". What a great reply, SiL.
And you already have one that says "Asskisser" :)
Quote from: The Diesel on Jun 09, 2008, 04:25:35 AM
Quote from: SiL on Jun 08, 2008, 09:14:28 AM
Why would they collapse under their own weight?
Well, maybe not collapse per se, but the tubes on the back would be a serious impediment as far as making them top heavy. I'm thinking more along the lines of the American Godzilla collapsing under its own weight. I probably shouldn't have said anything.
The American Zilla is another story true.
I think the tubes, being hollow shouldn't add to much weight. There were dinosaurs that used to live that had huge spines, plates etc. running down their backs, they were also much heavier than an alien. They didn't have exoskeletons either that we know of. They were able to live. ;)
QuoteYes, but its not like there were 3 or 4 running into them before knowing that it can kill them but they were running into the things in droves, even the second time.
So your theory doesnt make any sense.
Considering there are
hundereds of Aliens, using some of them to deplete the sentry gun ammo isn't a bad technique.
QuoteI never said it was the only girl, where did i say that?
i just said that they couldnt even kill a little girl, which they couldnt.
They never tried to kill a little girl.
QuoteAnd you already have one that says "Asskisser"
Sorry Pvt Hicks but it been proven before. ;)
With all due respect to the running argument, crab grass is hard to kill, but that doesn't make it intelligent.
Now we're comparing Aliens to grass?
Quote from: steveperry on Jun 09, 2008, 03:37:12 PM
With all due respect to the running argument, crab grass is hard to kill, but that doesn't make it intelligent.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi78.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj118%2FRuss_Diesel%2Flaughlol.gif&hash=79f9e1bd5af80d4d69cea373759b27354a122e49)
Quote from: War Wager on Jun 09, 2008, 04:51:14 PM
Now we're comparing Aliens to grass?
Nah, we're making the point that being hard to kill does not equal intelligence.
The term implies the ability to learn (and how quickly) and utilize knowledge, not how much you know, or how tough you are. By this measure, Aliens come third behind humans and Predators.
Humans created them both, remember?
Aliens are sentient, to be sure, but that's not the same as intelligent.
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Jun 09, 2008, 12:19:19 PM
I never said it was the only girl, where did i say that?
i just said that they couldnt even kill a little girl, which they couldnt.
But they obviously killed
plenty of others.
QuoteThat just makes the alien even weaker, Predators die when they get cocky, otherwise there is almost no way to kill them, aliens try their very best and are still killed...
That makes them even weaker.
No, it doesn't.
If Predators weren't running around with their invisibility, hiding as far as possible from their opponent while sniping, they wouldn't last half as long. Every time they turn the cloak off and go in for the fight, they get their asses handed to them. Deus ex machina keeps them alive; stupidity kills them dead.
QuoteSo harrigan and dutch didnt fight??
Again, I never said that. But it was only when the Predator let slip that they got killed, not because of a barrage of awesome from either guy.
QuoteHell, what did ripley do?? She opened an airlock, wow!!
Good point. I loved that scene in
Predator 2 where it showed Predators would in no way be affected by explosive decompression.
QuoteYes, but its not like there were 3 or 4 running into them before knowing that it can kill them but they were running into the things in droves, even the second time.
So your theory doesnt make any sense.
Firstly, we don't ever find out how many die - We never even get an
idea of how many die. Secondly, as I said, running into gunfire is a
human tactic -
waves of
unarmed people were sent charging into heavy machine guns at Gallipoli, for example. Well, by "unarmed" I mean "armed with bayonets", but close as makes no difference. So you can't say "oh look the Aliens are dumber than humans for running into guns!" when it's something humans were doing
looong before Jim Cameron was even born.
Quote from: steveperry on Jun 09, 2008, 03:37:12 PM
With all due respect to the running argument, crab grass is hard to kill, but that doesn't make it intelligent.
Oh for God's sake. When did I ever say it did? All I said in the first place was that Aliens aren't ever going to die because they get preoccupied stroking their egos; Johnny, being the raging Pred fanboy that he is, took this as an attack and now it's getting stupid.
Quote from: War Wager on Jun 09, 2008, 02:24:51 PM
QuoteYes, but its not like there were 3 or 4 running into them before knowing that it can kill them but they were running into the things in droves, even the second time.
So your theory doesnt make any sense.
Considering there are hundereds of Aliens, using some of them to deplete the sentry gun ammo isn't a bad technique.
QuoteI never said it was the only girl, where did i say that?
i just said that they couldnt even kill a little girl, which they couldnt.
They never tried to kill a little girl.
QuoteAnd you already have one that says "Asskisser"
Sorry Pvt Hicks but it been proven before. ;)
Lol! I don't care, I welcome it. It's very entertaining.
Quote from: steveperry on Jun 09, 2008, 07:32:37 PM
Humans created them both, remember?
Before this starts anything, he doesn't mean that humans bio engineered them. He means that the ideas came from human filmmakers.
Quote from: steveperry on Jun 09, 2008, 07:32:37 PM
Aliens are sentient, to be sure, but that's not the same as intelligent.
Sooo despite humans being outsmarted by aliens, you claim aliens lack intelligence. Riiigggghhhttt.... Go write a book or something.
Quote from: SiL on Jun 08, 2008, 09:14:28 AM
Why would they collapse under their own weight?
Because he rather erroneously assumes they are exoskeletal, another DH bullshit-ism.
Quote from: Layorz on Jun 12, 2008, 01:23:36 AM
Quote from: steveperry on Jun 09, 2008, 07:32:37 PM
Aliens are sentient, to be sure, but that's not the same as intelligent.
Sooo despite humans being outsmarted by aliens, you claim aliens lack intelligence. Riiigggghhhttt.... Go write a book or something.
well a lion could outsmart us out in the wild but that doesnt mean its literaly smarter then us..
It's all about the enviroment they're in.
Quote from: War Wager on Jun 14, 2008, 01:47:02 PM
It's all about the enviroment they're in.
true, which makes aliens extra dangerous because they can adapt to any environment..
In which case, Aliens are smart Mr Perry. But what the heck, you said what you said on an international DVD and now most 'fans' with think the same way too. Congrads.
With all due respect to your arguments, you are missing the point: A handful of bacteria can kill you -- does that make them more intelligent than you are? Can a lion drive a car? Can lions design and then build a car?
Complex tool-using is a higher level of function. A chimp can poke a stick into a nest of ants, but that's a pretty simple tool A crow can drop a nut onto a rock from a height. Neither of these actions put them into the league of people who can write on computers created by their kind, using language developed by their kind, discussing abstract philosophy developed by their kind.
Bring me the xenomorph who dreamed up and then built the alien version of the Mac, that'll impress me.
Can't find him? What a surprise.
Intelligence doesn't mean you as an individual can't be stupid, ignorant, or arrogant; it doesn't mean you can't make bad choices. Stick your hand into a rattlesnake's cage and stir the critter up, that's pretty stupid, but there are plenty of humans who have better sense. One idiot doesn't define the species.
Intelligence is a survival characteristic -- if you are circulating acid for blood, have big teeth and tough skin, you don't need to be particularly intelligent to survive. If your queen lays thousands of eggs, you are expendable, and intelligence is a waste.
If, on the other hand, you are furless, have mostly-dull teeth, fragile skin, you can't run fast and aren't strong, relatively-speaking, being smarter than the critters who can outfight and outrun you is a way to stay alive.
Xenomorphs are war toys, developed by some species a whole lot smarter for biological warfare. Nothing else makes any sense. If they evolved naturally, they wouldn't be at the top of their world's food chain, otherwise, why acid for blood? Like the South American frog used for arrow poison, the reason you have acid for blood is to make you taste bad enough to keep something from killing and eating you. Think about it.
You might not like how Dark Horse has developed this universe but they did develop it, and their versions makes a lot more sense than the movie versions.
Humans, as a species, have better reasoning abilities than xenomorphs. Period. Full stop. End of story.
If you can't see that, that's fine. Not my problem. I've tried to tell you, you just don't want to hear it.
What the heck ...
Thats how i see it too.
But you can try your very best, alien fans wont understand.
Or they understand but still say that youre wrong for the sake of it, and after a while, they believe their own BS.
Which i´m taking pleasure from everytime :D
I give up. You'll have your opinions and I'll have mine.
And bugger off Johnny.
QuoteXenomorphs are war toys, developed by some species a whole lot smarter for biological warfare. Nothing else makes any sense. If they evolved naturally, they wouldn't be at the top of their world's food chain, otherwise, why acid for blood?
What makes you think that's not the case? Why should they be at the top of their food chain? There might be something which isn't bothered by the acid blood on the planet.
Look at cane toads; used to be a massive problem in Australia because they had no natural predators and they ate
anything they could fit in their mouths. People had to go out and manually try to cull the bastards. But in its native habitats, it had predators that either weren't bothered by the poison, or knew to only eat a certain part and avoid it.
Or, maybe like the Alien itself, nothing else on the planet is bothered by the acid blood; it's a side-effect of the location, not an evolutionary adaptation.
QuoteYou might not like how Dark Horse has developed this universe but they did develop it, and their versions makes a lot more sense than the movie versions.
Uh, no. That's ... no. That doesn't even fall into
opinion. Dark Horse can't even tell which direction its ass is in when it comes to these franchises; the sheer number of blatant contradictions between comics and novels is astounding, and didn't they say to
ignore the existing work for the new line of novels they're churning out?
Until
AvP Requiem came along there really hadn't been any major divergences with the creature portrayal in the films.
Sil hit the nail on the head. The acid blood could be an evolutionary development that has nothing to do with defense. It could have to do with electrically powered senses or some other means that humans on THIS planet can't understand because we don't know. Maybe it defends them from high radiation, maybe it keeps them warm internally, maybe acid blood is capable of generating more pressure than human blood making them powerful enough to hold down and skullf**k preds.
And it doesn't make sense to create them as war weapons unless you deliberately designed the creatures to be nightmare inducing. A virus that has no restraint on its lifecycle could do much worse because it wouldn't have to worry about being a big eaty thing before it killed you. People would spread the virus and start dying before everybody else knew what was happening. Most beneficial also was that if you had a disease that was compatible with messing over humans, there'd be no antidote readily available. Simply altering the strain of flu takes a HUGE amount of time and money to combat and come up with vaccinations. Thats why a couple of years ago bird flu was so feared. It had a high mortality rate and a simple flu shot wouldn't do you a damn bit of good.
With an alien monster you can grab a gun and kill it. And at the very least it has a self limiting design feature including in it's reproductive cycle. It has to have other host to reproduce, and it has to have time.
And again, this argument is defining intelligence by human standards. Their culture might be ingrained in the hive walls, their computing network might BE the hive.
It's like scientist today saying things can't exist because of established "laws" of science, when things like blackholes and the effects they have on space/time truly distort what is known and unknown.
Maybe the Aliens ARE stupid. Maybe they are genius. The movies that leave their intelligence and motivations in the dark are the best of the series imo. My beef isn't that the aliens are dumb, it's that the books and comics repeatedly indicate or flat out state they are dumb when the debate hasn't been close to settled by the films. And I don't think the EU can expand what is unknown about the franchises before the movies do and be taken with much consideration.
Since Alien 3 and Alien Res destroyed about a dozen comic continuity's by themselves.
It is what it is. I can respect Steve's opinion, but I don't agree with it.
Bacteria and viruses mutate, sometimes into something that is harmless, sometimes into something more deadly. Turning loose a bunch of microorganisms might come back to haunt you. Macroorganisms, like Xenos, kill the hosts and then die when they run out of things to infect, and if any survive, you can see them coming, unlike germs. Good enough for clearing large animals and leaving small ones. Sometimes itty bitty bugs kill everything from shrews to elephants if they are nasty enough.
Like I've said before, I have no problem with a different opinion, especially one that is at least considered reasonably, whether I agree with the reasoning or not. I articulate mine as well as I can, I don't begrudge you yours. What bugs me is when people start name-calling when I don't buy their view.
How I see it seems self-evident to me, but disagreements are what make a horse race.
I'm back in the game.
Overall, theres really only two movies that support your opinion, Aliens and AvP Requiem. The other four show them to be smart sons of bitches.
And yet, when you think about it, only about as smart as Inspector Rex.
Difference being, as has been pointed out, is that Aliens are much, much faster learners.
I'd personally like to see Aliens that have been alive longer than three weeks in an environment with minimal external influence. All Aliens we've ever seen have been completely separate from whatever their origins were; it's unfair to assume we've seen the pinnacle of Alien intelligence based on 3-week-old babies.
Raise a person outside of society, in the wild, and they will not be molecular biologists. They won't even know what the hell a molecule is. The only reason we're so smart is because we've had two million years of other people doing the groundwork and passing it on down. You don't get that when you're born in a vacuum.
Well the longest living alien specimen would have been in either Aliens, or Alien:R depending on the time lapse between the colonists finding the eggs and the marines getting involved, and the successful cloning of Ripley and the arrival of the Betty (I don't know which is longer). The aliens in 2 were smart enough to attack the marines without getting detected, and had already grown used to their surroundings while the aliens in 4 knew how to escape and possibly set traps. Both batches had time to socialize within their own hives, and they did seem to be smarter.
It was 3 weeks in Aliens, or a little longer (3 weeks from when the marines left Gateway). The Betty arrived with the hosts; it was a day before the crap hit the fan.
Considering the short gestation period of an alien and the massive population they deal with, it could be assumed that they don't live very long on their own so who knows how influential 3 weeks is to them, and the Betty arrived a day before things went bad but there would have had to be already used hosts considering the amount of aliens on board the ship.
Quote from: steveperry on Jun 14, 2008, 02:58:25 PM
With all due respect to your arguments, you are missing the point: A handful of bacteria can kill you -- does that make them more intelligent than you are? Can a lion drive a car? Can lions design and then build a car?
Complex tool-using is a higher level of function. A chimp can poke a stick into a nest of ants, but that's a pretty simple tool A crow can drop a nut onto a rock from a height. Neither of these actions put them into the league of people who can write on computers created by their kind, using language developed by their kind, discussing abstract philosophy developed by their kind.
Bring me the xenomorph who dreamed up and then built the alien version of the Mac, that'll impress me.
Can't find him? What a surprise.
Intelligence doesn't mean you as an individual can't be stupid, ignorant, or arrogant; it doesn't mean you can't make bad choices. Stick your hand into a rattlesnake's cage and stir the critter up, that's pretty stupid, but there are plenty of humans who have better sense. One idiot doesn't define the species.
Intelligence is a survival characteristic -- if you are circulating acid for blood, have big teeth and tough skin, you don't need to be particularly intelligent to survive. If your queen lays thousands of eggs, you are expendable, and intelligence is a waste.
If, on the other hand, you are furless, have mostly-dull teeth, fragile skin, you can't run fast and aren't strong, relatively-speaking, being smarter than the critters who can outfight and outrun you is a way to stay alive.
Xenomorphs are war toys, developed by some species a whole lot smarter for biological warfare. Nothing else makes any sense. If they evolved naturally, they wouldn't be at the top of their world's food chain, otherwise, why acid for blood? Like the South American frog used for arrow poison, the reason you have acid for blood is to make you taste bad enough to keep something from killing and eating you. Think about it.
You might not like how Dark Horse has developed this universe but they did develop it, and their versions makes a lot more sense than the movie versions.
Humans, as a species, have better reasoning abilities than xenomorphs. Period. Full stop. End of story.
If you can't see that, that's fine. Not my problem. I've tried to tell you, you just don't want to hear it.
What the heck ...
I find it amazing what the species on this planet do to survive. There multitudes of species on Earth that are easily as interesting if not more so than the Alien due to various behaviors and adaptations.
QuoteIt was 3 weeks in Aliens
How do we know that?
Yeah I thought it was 3 weeks between loss of comunication and the sending of the marines, plus the flight time in space to get there.
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Jun 16, 2008, 02:05:59 PM
How do we know that?
When the marines get up in the Sulaco, one of them mentions in the background that they've been lying on their backs for three weeks. You sort of have to listen for it, but it's pretty clear when you hear it.
Quote from: Undeadite on Jun 16, 2008, 04:43:49 PM
Yeah I thought it was 3 weeks between loss of comunication and the sending of the marines, plus the flight time in space to get there.
Given they "didn't have time" to brief the marines before leaving Gateway, I think it's safe to assume they were sent pretty much immediately (Well, maybe two or three days; they had to go to Ripley, Ripley said no, that night has nightmare, Ripley says yes, etc.)
3 weeks or no, that is plenty of time for the alien to establish themselves.
No-one was questioning that ...
Quotebad but there would have had to be already used hosts considering the amount of aliens on board the ship.
The number of Aliens seen, killed, mentioned by Father, etc. all point to the orginal 8 hosts.
But what about the massive hive? And that wall of aliens riple went thru at the end?
It wasn't a wall of Aliens.
She was abducted by only two adult Aliens still alive at that point. One of them takes her to the Queen. We see one seconds before impact. Ergo the other was on the Betty.
ooooWEEEEEEEEEooooooO!!!!!
;D
Ugh, if I had my copy of the movie I would so tally it all up! :D
Sure, if you don't want to take my word for it.
No offense, Im just stubborn ;D
I would bet SM is right on the money. The guy is a virtual Alien Encyclopedia. I would trust him on Alien facts before I would trust myself counting while watching it. I'm sure I would leave out something that he would know about.
QuoteAnd thats a shame isn't it?
None taken.
You may notice something I missed (in spite of Diesels kind words).
No question here for Senor Perry, just some comments about Death Star, what I just finished.
Not sure what to make of it. It was readable enough, but I tend to like Star Wars books that actually have some warring in them. In Death Star it all about setting up characters for 200 pages while very little else happened. Once it really got going after this it was decent enough - decent enough that I sat up till 1 am to find out what happened.
However there were a couple of niggles:
- I was hoping that there would be some explanation as to why we can see a frame at the end of Revenge Of The Sith; then the book starts around 20 years later and it's still just a frame - which then seems to be completed in a matter of months. Sabotage is inferred to have occurred in the past, but there's no real detail.
- 'Milking' is a truly awful curse word.
- A bit more debate between the main characters would've been nice I think. Someone trying to argue the case for the Empire and the destruction of Despayre and Alderaan. Some of the guys like Stihl and Vil and Tenn obviously have been serving the Empire and it's ideals for a while. Would've been insteresting to see one of then wrestling with their doubts a bit more.
- The Death Star has florists - and lingerie shops??? A cantina makes sense - but the other stuff - on a "battle" station?
If you serve on board the Death Star long-term, you wanna be able to romance your sweetie, dontcha?
Well that was the other thing. There was a considerable lack of chicks on both Death Stars - and yet two main characters were women. I think their purpose and presence in the story was reasoned out well enough - but not to the extent of a there being knicker shop. It's almost become the Death Mall. I wonder if they were about to set up a House Of Hair Removal next door. Brazillians for wookiees... :o
Death Star is the story we wanted to tell. Like Titanic, everybody knows how it ends, no tension there. We intended it to be a character piece from the git-go.
The DS was a small planet, and the idea of it being nothing but troops in barracks hanging around and waiting to fight didn't make any sense to us -- people are going to have to live on the thing for years, and there's no place to go for liberty -- nobody is allowed to leave -- so it has to be a city in space, with everything you'd find in any big city. Of course there were women on it, and women like to shop.
Just because they didn't focus on that in the movies doesn't mean it wasn't there. You ever see anybody using a toilet on the DS? Or eating? Taking a shower? Just because those weren't shown doesn't mean they didn't happen ...
It was a construction project. First time they take it off to war, Luke blows it up, so it wasn't ever going to be about fighting. It was going to be about who was on it, which of them survived, and answering a bunch of questions Reaves and I had about it -- who ran it, what people did when they were off-duty, how it got put together. Who fired the big gun ... in the original script, it was Darth Vader who pulled the lever.
Why that exhaust port was there ...
If you stayed up until one a.m. reading it, that works for me ...
Don't get me wrong - I don't think it was a bad book at all. But there was just some stuff that didn't really ring true from what we see in the films. Lingerie was one of them. It was just too comical.
I did think of a question though - How do you co-write a novel? Was this different from writing with Danelle? Do you say 'I'll do this chapter about x character and you do the chapter about y'?
I've co-written scripts with people almost solely via email and it's generally emails going back and forth thrashing out a story, then I sit down and write the screenplay, then more revisions, etc. Is it the same with a novel?
Quote from: SM on Jul 04, 2008, 01:00:08 AM
Don't get me wrong - I don't think it was a bad book at all. But there was just some stuff that didn't really ring true from what we see in the films. Lingerie was one of them. It was just too comical.
I did think of a question though - How do you co-write a novel? Was this different from writing with Danelle? Do you say 'I'll do this chapter about x character and you do the chapter about y'?
I've co-written scripts with people almost solely via email and it's generally emails going back and forth thrashing out a story, then I sit down and write the screenplay, then more revisions, etc. Is it the same with a novel?
You wear underwear? Your wife or girlfriend wear any? If you lived on an artificial planet, where would you get your clothes?
Dismissing stuff like this is easy, but it's a mistake. Both God and the Devil are in the details.
Because they don't show people peeing in the movies, you can't assume that in that universe, they don't need to do it. And if you are going to write stuff that resonates with readers, you have to know the answers to stuff like this, because even if you don't write it out per se, it is between the lines. If you never think about it, it won't be there.
Collaborating is different on each project. Mostly, Reaves and I get together, hash out some ideas, and then one of us does an outline or a draft and we kick it back and forth until we run out of time or we can't stand to look at it any more. But we have done alternating chapters, or taken different characters, it depends on what it is. We've written short stories, scripts, and novels, but since he's in L.A. and I'm in Oregon, most of it is over the net. Back in the early days, we sent stuff using 300 baud modems, and you can type just about as fast as the files would up- or download ...
Quote\You wear underwear? Your wife or girlfriend wear any? If you lived on an artificial planet, where would you get your clothes?
Standard issue uniforms and fatigues I woulda thought...
QuoteBecause they don't show people peeing in the movies, you can't assume that in that universe, they don't need to do it.
Sorry, but I don't really find this to be a valid comparison. Toilets are a
necessity and we take it as read that they exist. Lingerie is a luxury. An unnecessary one seeing as there's a marked lack of women on the Death Star anyway.
Quote from: SM on Jul 07, 2008, 12:57:41 AM
An unnecessary one seeing as there's a marked lack of women on the Death Star anyway.
Based on what? We only see like...what, 0.001% of it?
And can extrapolate that the rest of the BATTLE station is similar, if not identical - at least based on other EU sources I've read about the Death Star over the last 15 odd years. How many female Imperial troops or officers do we see in any of the films anyway? Stormtroopers all speak with male voices, and any officers and crew we see are all male. I think one of Palpy's purple friends on the second Death Star may have been a woman but it's hard to tell.
Compared to the Alliance which had women in the ranks as well as female leaders and non-humans. i don't think this was a coincidence.
But here we have Bras 'n' Things in a battle station that caters to many different species no less - in spite of numerous mentions throughout the book that there were very few non-humans on the station apart from wookiee labourers.
Quote from: SM on Jul 07, 2008, 04:17:38 AM
that caters to many different species no less
Yeah, that's abit more on the nose...everything we've seen about the Empire says that they're very "human"-centric.
I must admit though, I am not really well versed on the EU stuff.
The battle station had all kinds of other folks on it other than stormtroopers. I know, because I put them them there, with LucasFilm's blessings.
So, when you get right down to it, the expert on who-where-what-when-why on events inside the Death Star? That would be me. There are restaurants, cantinas, entertainment workers, libraries, all kinds of stuff, and that includes the SW's version of The Gap. You don't have to like it, but that's how it is ...
Uhm... okay...
Ultimately it's only a minor point. Monsieur Perry is the dude getting paid to write the stuff - I'm the just schlub reading it so what do I know?
I had more issue with the book taking so long to really get going than the 'Death Mall' aspect.
Quote from: SM on Jul 07, 2008, 11:42:04 PM
I had more issue with the book taking so long to really get going than the 'Death Mall' aspect.
But Vader is on board...you really should have gone with "Darth Mall". ;)
It did cross my mind... I was trying to 'stay on target'.
NEEEERRRRRRD!!!!
That's true. :(
Although...only one of us has made a SW fan film. ;)
That NERD was for me anyway ;D (http://www.atom.com/funny_videos/sw_180/)
Oops. But I did give you the op for a plug, so I think we're even. :)
Its makes perfect since to have mall like areas. It is a battle station, which I would be guessing its similar to a post here in America. Yes, we do have areas that are restricted, armories, barracks, and such; but we also have malls, restaurants, and family housing.
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 01, 2007, 08:37:09 PM
. Better writing, and what got left out was why Ripley had to go back for Newt -- it's in the original script.
i just started reading this thread - am only on page 9 -- but this is not the first time mr. perry has mentioned it.
can someone / anyone tell me what was left out from the original script he keep s mentioning?
thanks
If he's talking about the theatrical cut, then it was the scene of Ripley finding out her daughter was dead.
Otherwise God knows, there wasn't anything else left out except for some dialogue from the marines and Burke being found in the hive.
I woulda thunk the 'why' for Ripley going back for Newt was obvious in either cut of the film?
Theatrical - She cares for this orphaned little girl.
Director's cut - She doesn't want to lose her replacement TV - I mean daughter.
Pretty clear, yeah.
i guess i didn't see Aliens in the theaters...
the first time i saw it was on VHS
i always thought Burke told her in the beginning that her daughter had died when she was still in the hospital.
i didn't realize it could have ever been screened any other way
You musta seen the SE on VHS.
I think it's about time Pretty wrote another KAWII DESU Predator book, don't you?
Heheh, Pretty? :D
does our dear mr perry still com and see us?
I still drop by from time to time.
Any plans for another novel?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 03, 2008, 08:40:33 PM
Any plans for another novel?
Not in the A, P, or AvP universe at the moment. Got two other books working, and another one past those I need to get to first.
Oh, Ive got a question. With Darkhorse introducing new AvP comics, would you consider writing story lines for them, or maybe adapting them into novels?
If he starts writing moviescripts, I imagine novels will take a backseat for a little bit.
How is the screenwriting going btw?
Hey Steve,
gotta say my favourite of your books is Prey.
and i just finished reading Turnabout.
now dont get me wrong i loved it, could'y put it down and i think it would be a brilliant base for a Predator 3 Movie.
my question is, what made you decide not to have the Preds point of veiw in this one.
I don't think their novel POV is as tense or suspenseful as the movies vision POV.
I wanted to use a Predator's VP. The folks in charge didn't want to go that way. Their bat and ball, their rules.
Down the line, once i get caught up, I would be okay with the notion of going back into the A, P, and AvP universe. They are good people to work with at DH, and I like the universe.
Here's a question.
I have a plot for an AVP story, but I can never get myself to write it down. Any tips on this?
What's stopping you? Time or motivation?
How do you actually say "yautja"? How is actually pronounced?
Quote from: SM on Sep 05, 2008, 12:35:30 AM
What's stopping you? Time or motivation?
Motivation, really. I have this whole thing, 3 act thing, in my head and i can't bring myself to write it.
Obviously, Perry-san would have more experience with this, but whenever I have to write anything I just jot down the basic sequence of events in a bullet point treatment, then use that as the starting point for the first draft. Might just be really broad points and the whole thing takes up only half a page, but at least you've got something down and can move on from there.
I use the same method. That way you've at least got the sequence of events and what you basically want to do but with the freedom of being able to expand what you want to write. I hate doing detailed outlines/treatments. I feel like the creativity and fun is being all used there.
Write a treatment, which is movie-speak for an outline. Keep it short, and do it as if you are having a beer with a buddy and telling him what the story is. Doesn't have to be formal -- "Okay, so this ship carrying some kind of terraforming robot crash-lands on Earth, and the robot is damaged. It thinks it has arrived at its destination and kicks on, and starts changing the atmosphere, making the Eatrh into a place better suited for Predators than humans ..."
Like that. Should be able to do it in fifteen or twenty pages.
As for yautja, we always pronounced it: "yah-oot-jah," no accent on any of the syllables.
Quote from: steveperry on Sep 05, 2008, 04:36:40 PM
Write a treatment, which is movie-speak for an outline. Keep it short, and do it as if you are having a beer with a buddy and telling him what the story is. Doesn't have to be formal -- "Okay, so this ship carrying some kind of terraforming robot crash-lands on Earth, and the robot is damaged. It thinks it has arrived at its destination and kicks on, and starts changing the atmosphere, making the Eatrh into a place better suited for Predators than humans ..."
Thanks.
Uh, is that the plot for your next book?
Quote from: steveperry on Sep 05, 2008, 04:36:40 PM
As for yautja, we always pronounced it: "yah-oot-jah," no accent on any of the syllables.
Thanks, I've heard y-ort-jah, yat-juh, y-ought-jah...but it's good to have you clarify it.
Quote from: SM on Sep 05, 2008, 01:09:55 AM
Perry-san
You added a Japanese thingy to the end of his name ;D (It should be Perry-senpai ;D ;) Just kidding, doesn't matter to me...)
Quote from: SM on Sep 05, 2008, 01:09:55 AM
whenever I have to write anything I just jot down the basic sequence of events in a bullet point treatment, then use that as the starting point for the first draft. Might just be really broad points and the whole thing takes up only half a page, but at least you've got something down and can move on from there.
I just take my idea, write it off the top of my head, read it ten-quadrillion times and change as I go along...then I let my friends critique the writing. That usually works. I just have this thing where I get 60 pages into my story and then get bored, say "Why the heck am I doing this?", and then stop. Eventually I get a new idea and that thing happens again. Does Perry-senpai (;D) have an answer for this?
Literary bankruptcy happens to all the writers I know. I call it Chapter Eleven, because that's usually where I run into it. Initial enthusiasm flags, you run out of steam. The cure is to keep going, even if what you write sucks, because once you get a draft done, you can always go back and rewrite, and it's easier to do that than come up with original material.
The Dreaded Second Act is what separates the pros from the amateurs. If you stop, you never get anything finished, and if you can't finish it, you can't get it published. Even if you just muddle through and you wind up having to fix most of it, that gets you a whole ms.
(That idea about the terraforming machines was off the top of my head. Or maybe from out another, lower part of my anatomy, I sometimes get accused of writing from there. Anybody wants it is welcome to it.)
Okay, thanks. I had this really great story and got to page...167 (MS Word) and then I just...died. The writing deteriorated and finally (after 6 months) I lost all enthusiasm. After that I spawned 4 other book ideas, all of which have stopped except one, which I just resurrected.
But I see what you're saying. I guess I was always intimidated by having to re-read all of my work and then attempt to fix everything. Besides...with finishing up Flesh and Blood, Turnabout is next on my 'To Read' list ;D
In Daschande(spelling?), why would "Shaun" not be the stressed syllable? Understandably, there's no way to scan the etymology of the word, but why not just go with the obvious? Personally, I've never studied your Yautja language, and I'm not sure whether or not you've established a list of subsequent prefixes and suffixes, but Shaun is evidently the stronger of the three.
Also, with continuity and ambiguity becoming such a problem in "expanded universes'", when does what the fans want bear any weight? I suppose that when it comes to fox, that question is actually quite redundant. Why shouldn't the fans, who ultimately pay your salary, have any say so on what is "canon"?
If you are going to take the Alien concept, a baby that is inarguably more ours than yours, you should dig deep inside yourself and find what responsibility you can. Sure, you can systematically deconstruct every detail you find inconvenient about the 'Alien' franchise, but you'll never find an Alien fan who agrees with your assessment of their intelligence. No Alien fan will just stand there as you, of all people, tells them that their beloved icon is utterly insignificant because you don't like certain films in the franchise. The Alien (if you ask me, and you f**king should) is a sleek, beautiful, elegant creature who's constantly being demystified by people like yourself who claim to be sticking to 'canon' facts. All the while telling us that your material is utterly more axiomatic than the actual films, simply because you didn't like them.
Quote from: Carnal Calligraphy on Sep 08, 2008, 09:14:28 PMAlso, with continuity and ambiguity becoming such a problem in "expanded universes'", when does what the fans want bear any weight? I suppose that when it comes to fox, that question is actually quite redundant. Why shouldn't the fans, who ultimately pay your salary, have any say so on what is "canon"?
Because we don't pay his salary, FOX/Dark Horse/whomever does, and FOX is the one who owns the license, therefore they get to make the rules. Sure many of FOX's decisions could be influenced by what we, the consumer, say or do, but FOX would still have the final say in the matter. If FOX wants to contract a book where the Aliens are simple insects that really have no power outside of numbers (which has an established basis in the movies anyway), that is their call to make.
As for "what the fans want", I think you addressed this yourself - if there's millions of fans and they're all different, you literally can't please everyone, and to try and please everyone is a simple recipe for failure. If a book doesn't have specific things that make YOU happy and therefore YOU take it as a personal slight against you as a fan, that's really selfish and ignorant of the myriad of other fans who may have actually enjoyed the book.
And the bottom line really is "the bottom line". FOX is out to make money, as is DH Press. If 10% of fans want to see stories about Aliens being cunning killers that outsmart humans and are The Ultimate Creature, but the other 90% of the general audience of readers want to read stories about Colonial Marine badasses who mow down Aliens because they saw it in 'Aliens' and loved it and "f**k those other sequels they sucked because they weren't 'Aliens' with the Marine badasses", which do you really think FOX is going to authorize?
Edit-- missed this bit the first time around, whoops:
Quote from: Carnal Calligraphy on Sep 08, 2008, 09:14:28 PM
Sure, you can systematically deconstruct every detail you find inconvenient about the 'Alien' franchise, but you'll never find an Alien fan who agrees with your assessment of their intelligence. No Alien fan will just stand there as you, of all people, tells them that their beloved icon is utterly insignificant because you don't like certain films in the franchise.
That is a huge logical fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman).
And I can absolutely guarantee that you'll find fans who WILL let Steve Perry, of all people, tell them that the Alien is gun-fodder... seeing as how James Cameron already did it already with the most financially successful and critically praised movie in the franchise.
Shit, I might even be one of those aforementioned fans. ;)
The whole second half of your post comes across as this huge "Who do YOU think you are, raping MY franchise by not catering to my explicit desires on what the Alien should be! How DARE you not consult ME first before writing your book, you inconsiderate jerk!" rant.
Here's a hint: it makes you look like an asshole, and embodies everything people see as negative when talking about a "fandom".
QuoteI just have this thing where I get 60 pages into my story and then get bored, say "Why the heck am I doing this?", and then stop.
Simple answer to that is 'write shorter stories'.
(Okay maybe not "simple" but anyway...)
Every time I started a script it got bigger and bigger until it ended up being feature length and therefore way beyond me means to produce. A mate who I've worked on a number of short films with just told me to keep things small. Minimal locations, minimal cast, minimal crew, about 10-15 minutes in length.
Something achieveable in essence (whether it's screenplay or prose).
And you may have a better chance of getting it published in a magazine or something.
I don't like short stories much, they don't satisfy me for some reason.
Quote from: Carnal Calligraphy on Sep 08, 2008, 09:14:28 PM
In Daschande(spelling?), why would "Shaun" not be the stressed syllable? Understandably, there's no way to scan the etymology of the word, but why not just go with the obvious? Personally, I've never studied your Yautja language, and I'm not sure whether or not you've established a list of subsequent prefixes and suffixes, but Shaun is evidently the stronger of the three.
I think that Dachande wouldn't have the "shaun" syllable stressed because it's an extraterrestrial language and they don't abide by the rules of human language. Technically Dachande could be pronounced "Glikta", there is no way to prove otherwise. And besides, who said "shaun" wasn't the stressed syllable...?
Was Carnal Calligraphy addressing me in the rest of his soliloquy?
Oh, but we DO pay his salary. It's basic economy. Supply and demand. If we didn't pay for the goods, there wouldn't be any goods. The money given to Steve Perry may in fact come out of Fox's pockets, but that money got into their pockets because of the revenue brought in by their products.
Also, the Second half of my post is what it is. If that's how it comes off to you, grand. Being as though I'm one of those people who pay his salary, I'd like to think that I still have enough freedom to complain every once in a while. You're no different. You're complaining about my post. Take that "fandom"...
Also, he Steve told us how to pronounce Daschande earlier. Duh-Shaun-day. He said that there is no accented syllable, and I understand that it being his work that there doesn't have to be. I was just asking.
Quote from: Carnal Calligraphy on Sep 09, 2008, 07:58:39 AM
Oh, but we DO pay his salary. It's basic economy. Supply and demand. If we didn't pay for the goods, there wouldn't be any goods. The money given to Steve Perry may in fact come out of Fox's pockets, but that money got into their pockets because of the revenue brought in by their products.
No, no really, you don't pay his salary. The checks he cashes are written by FOX, or DH Press, or whomever, not you. If you want to feel like you're making a difference, do your part by
not buying his books if you feel they're that bad, because that is quite literally all you can do. But to say things like...
QuoteIf you are going to take the Alien concept, a baby that is inarguably more ours than yours, you should dig deep inside yourself and find what responsibility you can.
or
Quoteif you ask me, and you f**king should
...is beyond arrogant, selfish, and ignorant of other fans. It makes me ashamed and embarrassed to have you as part of the same fandom as me. He should ask you? No, no he f**king shouldn't.
Quote from: Carnal Calligraphy on Sep 09, 2008, 07:58:39 AM
Also, the Second half of my post is what it is. If that's how it comes off to you, grand. Being as though I'm one of those people who pay his salary, I'd like to think that I still have enough freedom to complain every once in a while. You're no different. You're complaining about my post. Take that "fandom"...
Oh you certainly have the right to complain, but seriously go back and re-read your post. You're practically making
demands of an author and you come across as incredibly hostile, when you
literally have no bearing as an individual on his work or his financial income. If I were having criticism like that levied against me, you would be the first person I'd
ignore. If you want to complain, by all means bring up things you don't like in a constructive manner, but to say shit like "I pay your salary, you should f**king listen to me! Stop ruining my Alien, it's MY baby, not yours!" is ridiculous, and is why most authors are hesitant to listen to "the fans". Did it not occur to you that maybe, just maybe, Steve Perry is an Aliens fan himself? To say it isn't "his baby" as if he's not a fan is awfully insulting towards him, and is totally ignorant of what he, as a fan, may like about the movies. Your "No True Scotsman" fallacy about "you'll find no fans who agree with your views about Alien intelligence!" is insulting to any fans who don't agree with your personal viewpoints. Here's a crazy thought for you: if Steve Perry is an Alien fan, and holds a different viewpoint from you, then that instantly proves your claim wrong doesn't it?
Edit-- oh yeah, and it's spelled Dachande, by the way.
Firstly, I am no longer going to attempt to explain economics 101 to you. For you to not understand this basic concept in terms of a Laissez Faire economy, strikes me as absolutely ridiculous.
Secondly, There is nothing in my original post that could POSSIBLY be misinterpreted as a demand. YOU need to go back and re-read it. I'd say that if you can't stand a simple critique, don't write things that would potentially bring about such criticism. I, however, believe that Steve Perry is fully capable of standing up to these complaints, which is why I wrote them in the first place. If I'm the first person to ignore, then by all means ignore me. He has that right, just as I have the right to complain. By the way, I never said that he SHOULD listen to me, I asked why he shouldn't. It wasn't in the form of a rhetorical question, and if you believe that you define such a thing I invite you to make your case. I was simply giving him an opportunity to address that question.
Perhaps I was a bit too hasty in saying that there is no Alien fan that would agree with his observations, but I take offense to the notion that they pose virtually no threat whatsoever. It pains me to see that my beloved Xenomorph is now nothing more than a German shepherd with an exoskeleton.
I fail to see the point of the German Shepherd analogy. German Shepherds don't have exoskeletal exteriors that characters in the Alien franchise have attested to being stronger than steel. You should research the durability of steel. Now, imagine (even with guns and a horde of soldiers) trying to fend off 30 dogs with exteriors stronger than steel. Not to mention tails capable of slicing you in half, two sets of jaws, and lets not forget opposable thumbs. lol. Of course in Aliens they fall quickly under the bullets of futuristic weapons, and modern weapons, (perhaps modified, and undoubtedly using modified ammunition) but whose to say that those futuristic weapons wouldn't do as much damage to the predator? Yeah, some may say that yautja technology has advanced, but even without the restrictions of Earthly elements, there is a point in which you begin to stretch things beyond what is physical palpable. Listen, all I'm saying is that there could have been more of an established balance, and that Alien fans didn't have to be left out in the cold. I'm not asking for Aliens to be portayed as invincible, (like the predator conveniently is) I'm simply saying that one could project them as more than canon Fodder. It took me Approx. one minute to determine a single element that would fall under the benefit of the Alien. It just seems to me that, with all due respect, Mr. Perry didn't do the same.
Quote from: Carnal Calligraphy on Sep 09, 2008, 05:05:50 PM
Firstly, I am no longer going to attempt to explain economics 101 to you. For you to not understand this basic concept in terms of a Laissez Faire economy, strikes me as absolutely ridiculous.
How's about accounting 101 - you don't write his checks. You think you pay his salary? Then speak up with your money by not buying his books. But to say "I pay your salary, listen to my criticisms!" is ridiculous. You are completely delusional on that front.
You do realize that the US economy does not operate on Laissez-faire, right? The mere fact that we have corporations that own intellectual property or have a government that cites regulations and laws regarding the economy make this so. Not to mention the criticisms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laissez-faire#Controversy) against such an economic system.
Quote from: Carnal Calligraphy on Sep 09, 2008, 05:05:50 PM
Secondly, There is nothing in my original post that could POSSIBLY be misinterpreted as a demand. YOU need to go back and re-read it.
Haha, alright, let's take another look at your post:
QuoteIf you are going to take the Alien concept, a baby that is inarguably more ours than yours, you should dig deep inside yourself and find what responsibility you can.
QuoteNo Alien fan will just stand there as you, of all people, tells them that their beloved icon is utterly insignificant because you don't like certain films in the franchise.
Quoteif you ask me, and you f**king should
Look like demands to me, ace.
Quote from: Carnal Calligraphy on Sep 09, 2008, 05:05:50 PM
By the way, I never said that he SHOULD listen to me, I asked why he shouldn't.
...what? You said, "if you ask me, and you f**king should". That's pretty goddamn explicit.
Quote from: Carnal Calligraphy on Sep 09, 2008, 05:05:50 PM
I take offense to the notion that they pose virtually no threat whatsoever. It pains me to see that my beloved Xenomorph is now nothing more than a German shepherd with an exoskeleton.
1. Wait a minute, you take
personal offense that someone holds a different viewpoint than you, about a
fictional creature in a franchise you don't control? Oh, okay.
2. it is not "your" xenomorph. It's FOX's creature, to do with as they see fit. You didn't create it. You can't publish materials about it. All you can do is support it (or not support it) financially.
3. Pretty sure the Alien has never been shown as a German shepherd with an exoskeleton. In Perry's 'AvP: Prey', the things
decimate a colony. Just because they aren't invincible supercreatures doesn't mean they're suddenly dogs. Have you even seen 'Aliens'?
Quote from: Carnal Calligraphy on Sep 09, 2008, 05:05:50 PM
I'm not asking for Aliens to be portayed as invincible, (like the predator conveniently is) I'm simply saying that one could project them as more than canon Fodder.
What are you talking about? Don't several Predators die in AvP: Prey? I'll admit it's been a while since I read the novel, but I'm pretty sure the book starts off with several Predators and by the end of the book they're all dead.
When in Perry's novel are they shown as cannon fodder? Just because a Predator can take on several and win?
....not to mention that Perry's novel is a novelization of an existing comic book story, which Steve Perry didn't write.
Quote from: Carnal Calligraphy on Sep 09, 2008, 05:05:50 PM
It took me Approx. one minute to determine a single element that would fall under the benefit of the Alien. It just seems to me that, with all due respect, Mr. Perry didn't do the same.
I seriously don't understand what point you're trying to make with this bit.
People, people! This is "Ask Steve Perry" not Laissez Faire/Argue with Long Posts!
I didn't know that Steve Perry told you how to pronounce Dachande, sorry.
Flashback to the golden era of gamegossip.
:)
Quote from: Kimarhi on Sep 09, 2008, 11:27:31 PM
Flashback to the golden era of gamegossip.
:)
Haha, like how Vietnam veterans have "flashbacks"? :o
Pretty sure the "golden era" ended before you registered anyway. :-*
I'm kidding. :P
I've come to the realization that I really just don't give a shit anymore. :) Now I just amuse myself by playing the games, reading the novels, and (re)watching the movies. Shit, I even liked both AvP movies a lot and saw them both in theatres multiple times!
As for this thread, I'm actually going back and reading it from the start, because before I posted in it I had only read the first page and then the latest two, saw Carnal Calligraphy's post, and said "what on earth is this shit?"
Going back and actually reading how Steve Perry handles "hostile" questions, though, I imagine he could respond more eloquently (and hilariously caustically) than I ever could. Not to mention that Mr. Perry responded to all of Carnal Calligraphy's criticisms back on, like, page six or something.
I lurked for a long ass time.
I said I was joking. :P
I know, but I did read some of the epic arguments long before I even attempted to register. It was back in the day to the point where somehow I thought I'd be in trouble if I'd tried to register using my Highschool email as a freshman.
"Back in the day" gives me no frame of reference if I don't know how old you are now. :P
I graduated at 17 in 2003. I might've actually been a sophmore and not a freshman. I was a couple of years younger when I first started reading gg as oppossed to the age I was when I registered.
Quote from: Carnal Calligraphy on Sep 10, 2008, 01:24:41 AMIf you are going to take the Alien concept, a baby that is inarguably more ours than yours, you should dig deep inside yourself and find what responsibility you can.
That, my friend, is a suggestion.
Quote from: Carnal Calligraphy on Sep 10, 2008, 01:24:41 AMNo Alien fan will just stand there as you, of all people, tells them that their beloved icon is utterly insignificant because you don't like certain films in the franchise.
Frankly, your assertion that this statement in particular being a demand baffles me . This is not (in the least) a demand. To the contrary, this is quite obviously an observation... Plus, I've already admitted that I was being presumptuous.
Quote from: Carnal Calligraphy on Sep 10, 2008, 01:24:41 AMIf you ask me, you f**king should.
This statement is stated the way it is so that it wouldn't be taken as a demand. The "IF YOU ASK ME" part is placed before the statement to indicate that it is an opinion. You've taken what I've said out of context, and you shouldn't argue with the master of semantics. What I said, as you can read above, is that "If you ask me, you f**king should". I don't think that's out of line at all, and I wasn't Demanding that he should. I was simply stating that, that was how I feel.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 10, 2008, 01:24:41 AMWait a minute, you take personal offense that someone holds a different viewpoint than you? Oh, okay.
Uh... Yeah. Most people take offense to different viewpoints, especially if they are being projected in a public light. A little analogy. A white supremacist has all the right to believe what he believes. If that hypothetical supremacist is to write literature on the subject, however, and has subsequently made his opinions a public matter, he has then automatically opened himself up to public scrutiny.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 10, 2008, 01:24:41 AMit is not "your" xenomorph. It's FOX's creature, to do with as they see fit. You didn't create it.
Okay... I never said I created it. I do support it financially, though, much like an investor. Do investors not partially control the product?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 10, 2008, 01:24:41 AMPretty sure the Alien has never been shown as a German shepherd with an exoskeleton
That was an OBVIOUS reference to Perry's comparison of the Alien to a German Shepherd, in which he did in fact say that he thought it had intelligence relative of that of a German Shepherd. I didn't expect you to know that, being as though you haven't even been following the f**king thread. My entire post was based around what he has said in this thread, and I have openly stated that I haven't read any of his work. He has said that he doesn't think that Aliens can run with Humans and Predators.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 10, 2008, 01:24:41 AMseriously don't understand what point you're trying to make with this bit.
I was displaying how easy it would be to give the Alien an advantage in certain aspects of a fight.
Now, please stop trying to argue with me about something that wasn't directed at you in the first place. I have all the right to express my concerns. So, stop kissing Steve Perry's ass. It's pathetic. I've never seen a dick rider quite like you, and to be frank, it's getting a bit irritating. Say what you will, but let Mr. Perry respond to the questions directed at him, because, if what you say is true, he can do it SO much more eloquently than you.
Please, tell me more about your sense of entitlement as a fan. It's truly fascinating. Really, it is.
No really, I'm serious. Your posts are hilarious, and it's been a great source of comedy for me and my friends and co-workers.
Quote from: Carnal Calligraphy on Sep 10, 2008, 05:22:21 PM
" If you ask me, you f**king should."
This statement is stated the way it is so that it wouldn't be taken as a demand. The IF YOU ASK ME part is placed before the statement to indicate that it is an opinion.
You've taken what I've said out of context, and you shouldn't argue with the master of semantics. I said, as you can read above, that "If you ask me, you f**king should". I don't think that's out of line at all, and I wasn't Demanding that he should. I was simply stating that, that was how I feel.
Look at the phrase "if you ask me, and you f**king should". That can be re-phrased as "you f**king should ask me" and it keeps the same meaning. I mean, come on.
Quote from: Carnal Calligraphy on Sep 10, 2008, 05:22:21 PM
Uh...Yeah. Most people take offense to different viewpoints, especially if they are being projected in a public light. A little analogy. A white supremecist has all the right to believe what he believes, but if he were to write literature on the subject and subsequently make his opinions a public matter then he has automatically opened himself up to public scrutiny.
Whoa whoa whoa, did you just compare Steve Perry's writing to white supremacy literature? Seriously?
You honestly don't see the logical disconnect between getting riled up over hate-speech and getting butthurt because an author "disrespected" a fictional creature you don't control?
Quote from: Carnal Calligraphy on Sep 10, 2008, 05:22:21 PM
Okay... I never said I created it. I do support it financially. Much like an investor. Do investors not partially control the product?
No, you are not an "investor". You are a consumer. If you were a shareholder and owned stock in FOX, you could voice your complaints at the next board meeting. For someone who was trying to lecture me on "economics 101", you've got a hilariously bad understanding of the subject.
Keep in mind, as Steve Perry said earlier in the thread (the thread you claimed you read), everything he writes has to be cleared by FOX. If you've got a grievance with what he did (especially since he was, you know, adapting someone else's work anyway) you should probably take it up with them. Seeing as how they, you know, get to make the decisions with the property they own.
QuoteSo, stop kissing Steve Perry's ass. It's pathetic. I've never seen a dick rider quite like you, and, to be frank, it's getting a bit irritating. Say what you will, but let Mr. Perry respond to the questions directed at him, because, if what you say is true, he can do it SO much more eloquently than you.
I'm not kissing his ass, I'm merely telling another fan to stop being an idiot before he makes the rest of us non-crazy fans look bad.
Also, that little zing at the end there about "more eloquently" would have been more effective if I hadn't said it first. ;)
edit-- had to edit in some choice quotes, just in case you go back to your post and edit out the crazy.
This topic is pointless now, why don't you just start a topic in general discussion and continue arguing there? This is now very off topic, ASK STEVE PERRY not "Fight as you Please".
Fair enough, I'll quit calling Carnal Calligraphy on the fan insanity if he'll stop posting it. If he wants to PM me, he knows where to find me. :)
So what exactly did you think of AvPR Mr Perry?
Xenomrph, it's sad how you are desperately (and each of your posts are sounding increasingly desperate) defending someone elses honor. I can say whatever the f**k I'd like, and you're not going to stop me with your whiny "stop talking to mr Perry that way, he didn't do anything to you!!! He has a right to his opinion" responses. If your entire argument is founded on the idea that people havie a right to their opinion, and in turn have a right to broadcast it, isn't your argument against me, in effect, redundant? By your own rationale, I have as much of a right to state my opinion as Mr. Perry does. I haven't put a gun to anyones head, yet you're crying over every statement I make because you don't agree.
BTW, I did in fact compare those two. SHOCKING! I'd say that Steve Perry's German Shepherd Comparison makes up for that. My point was to show you how someone can be offended, and you obviously didn't follow. Let me ask you, do you lag behind in classes? I know of a few programs I can introduce you to.
You asked me how I could be offended by someone elses opinion. While the white supremecist analogy, while perhaps extreme, shows very soundly how someone could be offended by an opinion. Technically, I wasn't comparing anything, I was simply explaining to you how an opinion could offend someone.
No, I'm criticizing your posts not because of what you're saying, but
how you're saying it. You come across as a
complete f**king lunatic with your "and you f**king should" nonsense and "my alien" nonsense. Claiming you're an investor? That's just hilarious icing on the cake.
I mean, your question about "how much does input from the fans influence your work?" question you posed in your first post was a legitimately interesting one and I'd actually like to hear it answered. But to follow it up with "we pay your salary" and "you disrespected my Alien by likening it to a German Shepherd" and all the rest of the wacky shit you've been spewing set off my bullshit-o-meter and caused me to call you on it. You may think I'm getting "more desperate with every post" or whatever, but you're still acting like a rabid fanboy who gives the rest of us a bad name. In the words of one of my friends, "I can't read Carnal Calligraphy's posts in anything BUT the voice of the Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons".
QuoteBTW, I did in fact compare those two. SHOCKING! I'd say that Steve Perry's German Shepherd Comparison makes up for that. My point was to show you how someone can be offended, and you obviously didn't follow.
You're damn right I don't follow, because you're getting personally offended by someone else's opinion of
a fictional creature, and to top it off you used a comparison to white supremacy literature to explain yourself.
Meanwhile, Steve Perry actually backed his German Shepherd comparison up with citations of what he saw in the movies way back on, like, page six and the pages leading up to it, making your whole complaint reduntant. Other people in the thread including SiL, SM, Khimari, and others all voiced opinions in disagreement with Steve Perry's when it comes to the German Shepherd analogy (and shit, even *I* don't really agree with the analogy) but none of them claimed to be
personally offended by the disagreement in opinion, or calling it "their" Alien. Therein lies the difference.
QuoteLet me ask you, do you lag behind in classes? I know of a few programs I can introduce you to.
Was that an
ad hominem attack? Another logical fallacy, sort of like the "no true Scotsman" you pulled earlier in the thread?
Nice.But shit, I'll field the question, why not? I graduated with Honors with a bachelor's degree in Criminal Justice and a minor in Philosophy from Northern Arizona University in 2006 (GPA of 3.86, Summa Cum Laude), and am currently working on my Masters degree.
...not that it has
any bearing on the topic whatsoever.QuoteYou asked me how I could be offended by someone elses opinion. While the white supremecist analogy, while perhaps extreme, shows very soundly how someone could be offended by an opinion. Technically, I wasn't comparing anything, I was simply explaining to you how an opinion could offend someone.
Please, backpedal some more. It's hilarious.
Edit-- here, I'll even make you a deal. You go back and cut down your first post to just the "how much do fans influence you?" question I mentioned earlier, and excise everything else, and I will delete every post I've made in this thread (and by proxy, you'd delete every post arguing with me, since it makes little sense to leave them there) and we can call a "truce" or whatever and finally get this thread back on track. You keep your legitimate question for Steve Perry to answer (he already "answered for" your German Shepherd complaint earlier in the thread, if you care to read it), and all the fighting and your crazy fanboy rantings go away, and the thread continues. Sounds very reasonable, no?
PMs - you needz dem.
We need a cat picture. Pronto.
srsly
Boys, boys, settle down ...
I have no problem with people expressing opinions opposing my own. If you read back over this thread from the first, you'll see that happened more than once. It is what makes a horse race, that people disagree about whose critter runs the fastest. I don't think because I've written a bunch of stuff in these universes that it makes me automatically right -- it doesn't.
Then again, I came by my view of things honestly, having seen the movies in the theaters, read the graphic novels, and having been allowed to join the creative teams, first by novelizing the comics, and then coming up with my own story. I have some experience in the A, P, AvP universe and I've brought it to bear on what I've written.
I'm happy to admit I'm not the world's greatest expert on this.
I don't have to be. But I am willing to mount a vigorous defense of what I think, and have done so. And will continue to do so. I can take care of myself.
In the end, I am one of the guys sitting in front of a word processor writing the stories. I am constrained by many things -- my skills as a writer, the stories as they were shown and told, the dictates of the folks who own and run things. I do the best I can with what I got. Sometimes I can push back a bit, which is why the whole yautja storyline exists at all. My daughter and I did it despite being told that we should not. They let it slide because we convinced them. The powers-that-be had since put their foot down and made it known they absolutely weren't going there any more. (Of course, that was then, and they might change their minds down the line, you never know.)
The notion that I can't pronounce a word that I made up any way that I want is, not to put too fine a point on it, silly.
Because I'm the guy in the chair telling the story, I do have some control, and so I use it as best I can.
Turnabout was one of half a dozen ideas I offered to DH -- actually, it's a combination of two of them -- and that's what they picked.
They passed on the one from the Predator's VP.
For me to try and write material that is at odds with what I believe wouldn't work very well. The German Shepherd Dog comparison pissed a lot of people off because they don't agree, and I can understand that, but since that's what I believe, and I'm the guy putting the words through my fingers for people who believe the same thing, what would you have me do? Jettison my opinion and adopt yours?
Uh, no. My opinion might not be any more valid, but it is mine, and since nobody has put forth any convincing reason why I should dump it and take up theirs, why would I? You think I'm wrong? Fine, no problem. I think I'm right, and I'm the guy who gets to say it in print. If you really have a case you think is watertight, take it to Fox and change their minds.
Good luck with that.
Fox owns it all. Dark Horse rents space in their building. None it belongs to me, nor to any of the fans, unless they happen to work at Fox. I work for Dark Horse. Everything I offer has to be approved by them, and then by Fox. It's their ball and bat, and if I want to play, I have to do it by their rules. That's how it works in the real world -- as opposed to the theoretical one where laissez-faire capitalism says that the fans pay my salary, so I must pay heed to what they want. Nope. You have to take that argument to DH and Fox -- I'm just one of the proletariat workers here.
If you can do better, you have my blessing to try.
Well said, Mr. Perry. Glad to see that us fanboys didn't scare you off.
That said, I would like to see an answer to the earlier question: do fans influence your work in any way? I guess I mean in terms of fan/hate mail, or what you see tossed around on messageboards like this one, or in the "reviews" section of Amazon.com or something like that, does it influence your work at all?
I mean "influence" in terms of what you get from fan feedback, and also perhaps what FOX or Dark Horse says to you based on what they're seeing, as well.
Quote from: War Wager on Sep 10, 2008, 08:35:55 PM
So what exactly did you think of AvPR Mr Perry?
Was it really that bad? :)
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 11, 2008, 06:35:31 PM
Well said, Mr. Perry. Glad to see that us fanboys didn't scare you off.
That said, I would like to see an answer to the earlier question: do fans influence your work in any way? I guess I mean in terms of fan/hate mail, or what you see tossed around on messageboards like this one, or in the "reviews" section of Amazon.com or something like that, does it influence your work at all?
I mean "influence" in terms of what you get from fan feedback, and also perhaps what FOX or Dark Horse says to you based on what they're seeing, as well.
Fanboys don't scare me. I was a fanboy, I expect, before most of the people who show up here were born. Still am.
And as to their input, the asnwer is: yes and no. With the graphic novelizations, not so much, for two reasons. First, it has been a while since I did those, and the internet was not so ubiquitous as it is now -- there weren't any fan groups in this universe that I noticed. (I did hear some stuff from Star Wars fans that I took into account when I got into that universe, but remember that the first Aliens novelization came out more than fifteen years ago, and the web was a bit sketchier then.)
Second reason is that I had the comics as a template, and what DH leased was the right to novelize those, so we had to stick close to what had already been approved. There were some name changes we had to do to keep things legal, and eventually, those got changed back to what we wanted to do in the first place. But the comics were the basis of what my daughter and I did.
For the most recent novel, which my daughter also helped on, the story was fairly straight-forward, and I knew pretty much how I wanted to play it. The main characters came into focus from the start, and I just ran with them. It was their story, not that of the Predators so much, and that's how I wrote it.
I didn't really need a whole lot of input into that, and since the Preds were not VP characters, nor really the focus, I figured I had enough to go with.
Another book, maybe I'd get some thoughts from the fan base I could use. But -- to he honest here -- probably not so much from folks who get horsey and call me names. One doesn't reward bad behavior, that will only encourage it.
The problem with fan input is that the really hardcore fans tend to not like a whole bunch of stuff that casual fans and readers enjoy, and the level of detail necessary to please the heavy duty fanboys is too much for most readers -- they don't care for it. Microscopic details can bog down the story, and spending any real amount of time getting something perfect for the three guys who might get it is not the way to go, if you have a deadline. (From the time Turnabout's outline was approved until it was due to be delivered was less than four months. My daughter was going to write most of it, but ran into some scheduling problems that made that impossible -- she was doing an Aliens novel, a Star Trek novel, and she had two small children at home, so I wound up doing most of it, and by the time I got to it, had only six weeks or so.)
If you have a hundred readers, and the choice is to please eighty of them by doing it one way, or three of them by doing it the other, which way would you go? (Keeping in mind that if the book tanks big-time, you might not get invited back, and a certain percentage of the readers aren't going to like it no matter which choice you make ...)
Two hardcore fans will argue to the death over what color lint was in the Predator's pocket last Tuesday. I can't go there -- it doesn't entertain enough readers, and whatever I might say if I did go there would piss off one of the guy arguing anyhow.
As to AvPR, I believe I have said it a time or two here and elsewhere -- yeah, it
was that bad. I don't know what they were thinking. They might not have killed the franchise, but they didn't help it any.
In my opinion.
As a side note, I actually read 'Turnabout' recently. While I did like it and I thought the characters were cool and interesting, for some reason it didn't quite feel like a Predator novel.
To explain what I mean, it was sort of that the Predators took a total back seat to what the other characters were doing. Like, sure, the Predators were running around doing their thing, but the only time we really saw the Predators doing anything was when the other characters spotted them (or were killed by them), but beyond that it sort of read like the Predators could have been excised from the novel entirely and just had a plot about the Park Ranger/sniper dealing with asshole poachers (and maybe change it up so Mary's brother had merely been killed by a bear, rather than a Predator) and it would have been just as interesting and most of the events would have played out the same way.
I know you said that you weren't trying to have the Predator viewpoint, but I think a "happy medium" might have been showing the Predators doing things on their own without the human interaction, and perhaps implying their moods and whatnot from their body language without really getting inside their head like you did in AvP: Prey. An example would be the 'Predator' movies themselves (and the novelizations of those movies, moreso the second than the first). There's all kinds of scenes that show the Predator doing something on his own without any meaningful input from the human characters, but it doesn't go into "Predator POV" and show you what the Predator is thinking.
Does that make sense? It was just something I was thinking about after I finished reading the book.
Sure. As I said, it wasn't the Predators' story. But if you use viewpoint characters and not omnipotent or camera-view, the only way to show the Predators doing anything has to come from a viewpoint character watching them do it. And since nobody but Sloane knows for sure they are here -- Mary and Regal don't see them until the end of the book, then everything we see them doing has to come from him.
Which it does. He doesn't' know jack about them save that they are killing his bears on his watch, and that they don't mind taking human trophies.
More than that would require more interaction between them, and since this was a sniper's duel, it is by its nature going to take place at a far remove.
That's the story I wanted to tell. If I had had Sloane captured by the Preds, and in their camp, I could have done more, but they don't generally capture a lot of humans and let them hang around, so I'd have to come up with a good reason for them to do that, and how would I explain it? That would be pure speculation on Sloane's part -- unless they laid it out for him.
Nothing wrong with the notion, it's just not the one I wanted to play with. It was all about Sloane's ability to deal with the threat using skills that were as good as theirs, and weaponry that wasn't so inferior that it mattered. That's what the title means. I wanted the hunters to come up against somebody who could make them the hunted.
That was the story I wanted to tell. That's the one I told. The rest is coulda-shoulda-woulda, but I didn't go there.
I liked Turnabout because it was slightly different. The Preds were hunted for once.
The next one needs more wristblade action!
Quote from: Kimarhi on Sep 12, 2008, 12:21:02 AM
I liked Turnabout because it was slightly different. The Preds were hunted for once.
The next one needs more wristblade action!
Agreed, I
did like the book, and it certainly was unique as Predator novel, and I can understand where you (Mr. Perry) are coming from with your justification on using no Predator POV. Just saying that that degree of "uniqueness" which we haven't seen in other Predator novels/comics/movies might be a bit of a turn-off for some Predator fans, or might not be what they're expecting.
I am just very glad it didn't "not feel like a Predator novel" the way John Shirley's 'Forever Midnight' did - his book did get inside the Predators' heads... but also fundamentally changed them as a species from the ground up to the point where it felt like I was reading a science fiction book about some
other race of violent killers that had had the word "Predator" shoehorned into it. It wasn't just that his Predators differed widely from the Predators you'd made for 'AvP: Prey', but that they differed widely from what we'd seen in the original source films themselves. At least the ones in 'Turnabout' acted like Predators when, as you said, Sloane was observing them (even if he didn't always know what he was looking at).
On the whole, though, I'm pretty easy to please when it comes to Aliens and Predator stuff. I gobble AvP stuff up, and I was actually entertained by both AvP movies. Part of the fun for me as a fan is finding ways to make all the continuity stuff "fit"... and when it can't, I just sort of say "oops" and continue having a good time reading the comics or playing the video games or whatever.
I am going to ask Steve Perry a question. If, you know, it's OK.
What would you have added or subtracted in regards to AVP-R specifically? And don't say 'Character development.' I want to know exactly what could make it work.
Also, if it OK if I send you part of that plot I've been writing so I can know if I'm doing a good job? Or would that be bad for your creative process?
Quote from: Alienseseses on Sep 14, 2008, 04:22:36 AM
I am going to ask Steve Perry a question. If, you know, it's OK.
What would you have added or subtracted in regards to AVP-R specifically? And don't say 'Character development.' I want to know exactly what could make it work.
Also, if it OK if I send you part of that plot I've been writing so I can know if I'm doing a good job? Or would that be bad for your creative process?
I didn't care for the movie as a whole. I did like the homeworld stuff a little, but all the booga-booga on Earth was just a gore fest and over the top. It was murky, mindlessly violent, and I don't think the script as it stood could have been made to work -- for me -- without major surgery, enough so that it would have been another story entirely.
Exactly? Throw it out and come up with a better story.
I think like a lot of folks who really don't understand science fiction and fantasy, they went for the look and the action, and they dropped the ball where it counts.
In Alien, the set-up laid out the truck-drivers-in-space. You got to know who they were, at least a little, so when they started get et, you cared.
Stories that work are about people you care about. The reason I got nice fan mail on the yautja was because we fleshed out the VP Predator enough so that readers could identify with him. It wasn't just that he had a broken tusk, it was that he was a person in his own right. You could understand why he did what he did. People respected him.
Character development is what makes a movie hold my interest. If they are all cardboard, who cares what happens to them? Ripley, you remember. Everybody remembers Ripley.
Who are you going to remember from AvPR? Anybody? There's no there there ...
My lawyer won't let me look at unread mss by anybody I don't know well enough to trust. We don't want to find ourselves in court someday with an irate writer who claims we swiped his idea. Not that it's likely in a universe where the writer doesn't own any of the rights, but stranger things have happened.
Sorry. Nature of the biz.
Would you say the first AvP was better story-wise and do you like that movie better overall?
Quote from: War Wager on Sep 15, 2008, 12:09:37 AM
Would you say the first AvP was better story-wise and do you like that movie better overall?
"Better" is a relative term. I'd say the first one wasn't as bad, but I wasn't impressed with it.
I didn't
like either of them.
What they
should have done was the movie version of AvP the graphic novel/novelization. The comic book writers told a better story. My daughter and I added a little bit that -- we think -- made it better. Fans seemed to like it -- it's gone through twenty-some odd printings, last time I looked, and has just gone back to press again.
Lot of folks liked Dachande and Noguchi. I think a movie with them would have been better and more popular. The producers had the material right there, all they had to do was get a writer could turn it into a script and they'd have had a winner.
Doesn't surprise me that they didn't. They spend a lot of time shooting themselves in the feet down in La-La-Land.
My opinion.
The pyramid setting was at least new and different. The most dangerous and alien enviroment on Earth and a lot more scarier than some hick town in the middle of God's nowhere. I felt the characters, while they had poor lines too, were more memorable and likable than in AvPR.
This leads to another question; do you think there is still hope for this franchise or is it dead?
Over the years, have you read any of the other Aliens/Predator/AvP materials, such as books, comics, videogames, etc? I don't just mean for "research" or whatnot for books you were going to write, but also just for curiosity or leisure reading, etc.
If so, what did you think of what you read? Any personal favorites?
Quote from: War Wager on Sep 15, 2008, 04:15:31 PM
The pyramid setting was at least new and different. The most dangerous and alien enviroment on Earth and a lot more scarier than some hick town in the middle of God's nowhere. I felt the characters, while they had poor lines too, were more memorable and likable than in AvPR.
This leads to another question; do you think there is still hope for this franchise or is it dead?
As long as the movies make a profit, the franchise isn't dead. If you can shoot it fairly cheap, get a halfway decent summer audience in the theater seats, and good video sales? You can always pitch another one. Lot of bad movies make enough money to keep churning out sequels. Chuckie, anyone? How many Friday the 13th have there been?
What made the Dark Knight Batman movie work? Sure the EFX were cool, that flipping truck and all, but it was the scenery-chewing by Ledger as the Joker, and the low-key Batman and Bruce Wayne Bale gave the audience -- the fact that (spoiler here) they killed the girlfriend -- lot of folks didn't see that coming.
Alfred. Jim Gordon. Characters you remember.
Character-driven stuff puts 'em in the seats, and Bats was a great comic book movie.
That's what they need in AvP.
Mostly, I confine my reading in the A, P, AvP universe to stuff I need to read; or to stuff my daughter writes, and now and then, one by somebody I know. I have a stack of books by my bed, and I never catch up entirely. So many books, so little time ...
Is it safe to assume you read 'Aliens: Labyrinth', which your daughter novelized?
That's one of the few novels where I actually preferred the comic book source material to the novelization. However, that wasn't because of any fault on the part of your daughter's writing, but because the comic was so good. The artwork is great, and the way some of the events play out is slightly different in the comic as compared to how your daughter wrote them for the novelization, and I prefer the comic's version more.
If you read your daughter's novelization and liked it, I highly recommend reading the comic if only for comparison's sake. It's one of the few Aliens comics that I would really push for being turned into a movie. It's a lot more like 'Alien' than 'Aliens' in the sense that it's more about the characters and horrific events than about shoot-em-up action. And 'Labyrinth' has a lot of memorable and interesting characters.
Tangentially, did you read your daughter's recent Aliens novel? If so, what did you think? ("she's my daughter" biases aside :P )
Yep, I have read all my daughter's books. Being totally objective here, her books are better than the graphic novels upon which they are based, which I generally also read.
Like movies, graphic novels can be terrific, but I usually prefer the book. There are some movies that are better than the books upon which they are based -- Godfather is one. Some that are better than graphic novels that spawned them -- Men in Black, for instance. For me, usually it goes the other way. Lord of the Rings was a great movie trilogy. Not as good as the books.
I thought Danelle's most recent Aliens novel was terrific -- because she gave us some real -- if perverse -- characters. I believe I have mentioned a time or twelve that I think character is what makes a story work. She brings more of that to her work than a lot of writers who do tie-ins.
My standards as to what makes a good read tend to be more critical in some areas -- I'm bringing a writer's eyes and sensibility to material that I read. I want more than just -- yawn -- exploding heads.
My daughter meets those standards.
I like Stephani's work pretty well. She's good at capturing the thoughts of an average joe's head.
Read too many books where people run around and talk like they are in a political debate while zombies run around and eat their friends. And others where the dialogue is just so flat it doesn't speak with any kind of voice. Every character sounds like the words they were typed with.
Stephani on the other hand is great at making people feel real. She did an excellent job capturing the lockerroom mentality of the ruffians that were in Berserker. It really DID sound like the the l-room when your away from your coaches and can talk shit without having to worry about being reprimanded. She also goes out of her way to expand things you only catch glimpses of in the comics. Like Pulaski and Jess weightlifting prowess. Which was ridiculous (in terms of the weight they were lifting they were manbeast), but added a sense of realism about what people would do if they were bored during interstellar space voyages.
She ever going to try to write her own original series? (if she hasn't already?)
I'd totally love fer her to write more Aliens novels, but always felt that she could manage her own standalone novels quite well should she ever choose to do so.
I will agree that it was the characters that made 'Aliens: Criminal Enterprise' interesting, and it's what kept me reading. However, with a "creature feature" franchise like, say, 'Aliens' or 'Predator', I think it can be a fine balance between compelling characters and getting to see the creatures getting some spotlight time as well. I'd say that's my only real complaint against Criminal Enterprise - the characters were awesome, but the Aliens took a real back seat until the end when all hell broke loose, and even then it was just sort of "Aliens steamroll the base, everyone dies".
Compare that to, say, 'Aliens: Rogue' where essentially the same thing happens, but instead you've got spotlights on both the main characters and minor characters dealing with it, as well as exactly what the Aliens are doing, as well as the "Rogue" Alien doing unique things no one has ever seen before. Or to the more recent Aliens novel, 'DNA War', where you've got memorable characters who think they're discovering new and interesting things about Alien biology and behavior. It makes the Aliens seem more important to the plot than just a looming, frenzied threat in the background.
Compare it to, say, the first two Alien movies. Everyone remembers the characters like Ash and Ripley, but they also can't forget the things the Alien did, either. or in 'Aliens', characters like Hudson are memorable and quotable, but everyone also remembers the first time they saw the Queen at the end of the movie, too.
I'm not saying Criminal Enterprise was bad; very far from it. I guess I was just expecting more "Alien participation" to balance out the cast of characters that inhabited the base.
I've never read a single Aliens novel that hasn't suffered from that. I'd say Genocide, though one of the better written novels, is the worst at doing this - It starts with an Alien attack, then there's no Aliens until you're nearing the last quarter of the book. And even then they're usually sidelined to vague, generic descriptions (Yay banana heads).
I think it's a problem with the format. The Alien is such a visual creature that it doesn't translate well into words. Alan Dean Foster's novels of the first three Alien movies are fantastic, but you just can't write the chill that runs down your spine when the Alien peers in at Jonesy in the cat box at the end of Alien.
Labyrinth is another fine example. Great book, I loved some of the things that were added to the plot and the characters, but the flashback sequence with Dr. Church doesn't carry anywhere near the weight of the graphic novel, simply because the graphic novel shoves it in your face and doesn't let you imagine it as any less than it is.
Questions for Steve!
Do you have any plans to work on next year's ALIENS relaunched comics?
Is there any particular comic artist you would like to work with on any Aliens story?
And do you have any plans to return to Star Wars comics again? (sequel to Shadows of the Empire: Evolution or any Star Wars era....)
Thanks!
8)
Quote from: vikingspawn on Sep 16, 2008, 10:14:43 PM
Questions for Steve!
Do you have any plans to work on next year's ALIENS relaunched comics?
Is there any particular comic artist you would like to work with on any Aliens story?
And do you have any plans to return to Star Wars comics again? (sequel to Shadows of the Empire: Evolution or any Star Wars era....)
Thanks!
8)
I don't see any comics in my immediate future. I did the SOTE miniseries because I wanted to try my hand at the form and see if I could do it. (It's kind of like writing for TV animation, but the pictures don't move). Before I laid out the storyline in detail, I called up Ron Randall and asked him what kind of backgrounds he liked to draw; that way, I could put some scenes in he'd enjoy. And since comics are a visual medium, I kept the dialog and descriptions as tight as I could. There are a few pages where it's all pictures, few or no words.
I worked with Chris Warner -- we wrote a script based on his Black Cross comics serites, and had a sale, but the project eventually went south. Long story, usual Hollywood kind of thing. I liked Chris, nice guy, good artist and writer, I'd be happy to work with him again.
I enjoyed the comic writing experience enough so I pitched a sequel to Evolution, again a five-issue series, but Lucasfilm wasn't interested. After that, I had books to do, so I moved on.
'Star Wars - Guri Loves Dash'?
Quote from: SiL on Sep 16, 2008, 09:35:32 PM
I've never read a single Aliens novel that hasn't suffered from that. I'd say Genocide, though one of the better written novels, is the worst at doing this - It starts with an Alien attack, then there's no Aliens until you're nearing the last quarter of the book. And even then they're usually sidelined to vague, generic descriptions (Yay banana heads).
I think it's a problem with the format. The Alien is such a visual creature that it doesn't translate well into words. Alan Dean Foster's novels of the first three Alien movies are fantastic, but you just can't write the chill that runs down your spine when the Alien peers in at Jonesy in the cat box at the end of Alien.
Labyrinth is another fine example. Great book, I loved some of the things that were added to the plot and the characters, but the flashback sequence with Dr. Church doesn't carry anywhere near the weight of the graphic novel, simply because the graphic novel shoves it in your face and doesn't let you imagine it as any less than it is.
I haven't read 'Rogue' (the novel) in a while, but I actually re-read the comic series, like, 2 weeks ago, so that's partly where my Rogue example was coming from.
I also re-read the 'Genocide' comic, though, and I think that did a fair job of having plenty of Alien spotlight time. Part of that was the whole "cloned hosts for making new Aliens" idea, or Xeno-zip as a plot device, or the whole "two strains battle it out" thing.
I did read 'DNA War' fairly recently, though, and I stand by my assessment of that one: the characters had plenty of spotlight to do interesting things, but the Aliens also showed up a lot. The Aliens were also pretty much the focus of the plot, as opposed to Criminal Enterprise where the focus was kinda "criminals and their wacky lives. Oh yeah, and there's Aliens outside the walls, sure hope they don't get inside!"
Edit-- I DID like Criminal Enterprise's nod to the old comics by mentioning the Grant Corporation, though. That was pretty cool. :)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.icanhasforce.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F01%2Fstar-wars-focus.jpg&hash=0838320a82cd67cd295d216021014a1b5d7b9456)
Uh, not quite sure I see the relevance, but it's still a funny picture. ;D
Quote from: steveperry on Sep 11, 2008, 06:10:28 PM
Sometimes I can push back a bit, which is why the whole yautja storyline exists at all. My daughter and I did it despite being told that we should not. They let it slide because we convinced them. The powers-that-be had since put their foot down and made it known they absolutely weren't going there any more. (Of course, that was then, and they might change their minds down the line, you never know.)
that is a pity, I did like how you handled the yautja concept...I do think however that some of the later comics took the honor idea too far, but I never felt that your novels portrayed the yautja as
space-samurai, an accusation that some fans level at you. As I understood it, the main yautja character in Prey was less blood-thirsty and more curious than the average yautja, as evidenced by the conduct of his students (most of them anyway).
Quote
For me to try and write material that is at odds with what I believe wouldn't work very well. The German Shepherd Dog comparison pissed a lot of people off because they don't agree, and I can understand that, but since that's what I believe, and I'm the guy putting the words through my fingers for people who believe the same thing, what would you have me do? Jettison my opinion and adopt yours?
Well, I think there are many people who agree with you that the average drone is about as smart as a German shepard or if you want, a panther or a tiger. We're just not as vocal about it because most of us just aren't that obsessed with the aliens.
Quote from: steveperry on Sep 16, 2008, 11:20:00 PM
I enjoyed the comic writing experience enough so I pitched a sequel to Evolution, again a five-issue series, but Lucasfilm wasn't interested. After that, I had books to do, so I moved on.
Wow, is there a chance that can be brought back? I know alot of fans would be excited for a sequel to Evolutions.
Did your pitch involve more use of Dash Rendar? Or any interaction with the regular movie characters? Any Black Sun & Guri?
Anything can happen with Star Wars comics now...they were even talking of bringing back Crimson Empire 3 again after writing it off years ago... ;D
I just hope they don't bring back Gulacy to do the art for Crimson Empire 3, his artwork is goofy, especially the way he draws people's eyes.
But I digress...
Quote from: vikingspawn on Sep 18, 2008, 04:49:08 AM
Quote from: steveperry on Sep 16, 2008, 11:20:00 PM
I enjoyed the comic writing experience enough so I pitched a sequel to Evolution, again a five-issue series, but Lucasfilm wasn't interested. After that, I had books to do, so I moved on.
Wow, is there a chance that can be brought back? I know alot of fans would be excited for a sequel to Evolutions.
Did your pitch involve more use of Dash Rendar? Or any interaction with the regular movie characters? Any Black Sun & Guri?
To be honest, I don't recall what all the pitch contained. Dash was in it, and Guri, but it's been ten years since I filed it away. Moot, anyway, since they didn't want to do it. If Evolution had been a blow-out bestseller, they might have been up for it, but while it did okay, it didn't get the big numbers flying off the racks.
Do you have a "favorite" licensed franchise you like to work within? I don't mean the actual company like FOX or LucasFilm, but just a franchise itself that you find most enjoyable to write for.
This is pretty cool! StarWars.com just posted an article on the new Indiana Jones novel by Steve Perry!
http://www.starwars.com/vault/books/news200809018.html
Will there be a comics adaptation of the novel too?? ala "Shadows of the Empire" style? 8)
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 19, 2008, 05:24:34 PM
Do you have a "favorite" licensed franchise you like to work within? I don't mean the actual company like FOX or LucasFilm, but just a franchise itself that you find most enjoyable to write for.
I've had good experiences in all of the ones I've worked in. There are drawbacks -- it's their toy and they get the final say if you disagree, and some of what is there you sometimes have to dance around because it don't ring right for you, but by and large, you know that there are limits going in and you accept them. Working for somebody this way is like being a commercial artist -- you have to have the skills to give them what they ask for, otherwise, you can't do the job.
They offer different thrills. Get to hear what Darth Vader thinks in his hyperbaric chamber. Put Ripley through her paces. Spies and martial arts, and mighty-thewed barbarians, they are all fun. I try never to write-down, but do each book as best I can, given time constraints and what is acceptable subject matter. Almost always, I think the books could have been better. Part of that is what they allow; part of it is me.
Dark Horse is easy because they are all nice folks and knowledgeable pros. They tend to hire people they trust and then leave them alone to do the job. I like everybody I work with there. A handshake is as good as a signed contract, and the universe lets you throw a lot of ammo and use R-rated language. (And Mike Richardson just won an Emmy™ by the by, for the HBO movie on Don Rickles, Mr. Warmth.)
Star Wars, Conan, Net Force, they are all full of professionals who know how the biz works, and also great places to play. There is give-and-take, and sometimes you can convince people your way is better, sometimes not.
On the animated TV end -- Batman, Spider-Man, Streetfighter, Gargoyles, Godzilla, Centurions, and other, lesser known shows, were more constricted and structured, but that's the nature of the medium -- you had to adhere to the bible they gave you and stick to the outline they approve -- but also fun, most of the time. And you tend to get paid pretty quick, too.
I judge by how willing I would be to go back into the universe and work for the same people, and I'd do that for all of the book folks I mentioned.
Are there any franchises you haven't worked for which you'd like to at some point? This includes franchises you've pitched ideas to but haven't been accepted yet or whatever.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 20, 2008, 08:48:49 PM
Are there any franchises you haven't worked for which you'd like to at some point? This includes franchises you've pitched ideas to but haven't been accepted yet or whatever.
On the Indy project -- I dunno if there is gonna be a comic tie-in, I haven't heard. I expect to have the draft done and in, next couple weeks.
In the shared-universe writing? I wanted to write a Tarzan novel, and got an offer to do one once, but the money was so bad I couldn't accept it. My collaborator and I pitched a Star Trek novel, and the editor dropped the ball -- never got back to us, and after a few follow-up emails, we bagged it.
I would have loved to have been involved in several of the big-franchise movies -- Star Wars, Trek, Indiana Jones, X-men, Spider Man, Superman, like that, but I don't have the screen credits to get on their radar.
These days, I'm trying to get more of my original stuff done -- my collaborator and I have written a door-stop fantasy that is making the rounds; I'm writing an urban fantasy about a guy who shepherds people through Buddhist hells in the afterlife. I have one more Matador novel I'd like to do.
I'd go back into some of the SU's I've worked in before, but I'm not looking so much for new venues.
Was it your daughter that wrote Aliens: DNA War?
No, not it wasn't. It was Diane Carey.
Ah.
S.D. Perry wrote/co-wrote 'Aliens: The Female War', 'Aliens: Labyrinth', 'Aliens: Berserker', and most recently, 'Aliens: Criminal Enterprise'.
Hello there.I have 2 simple questions.Did you enjoy writing Earth Hive thru Female War as much as I enjoyed reading them?And on the Queen Mother's homeworld,the huge pods were like giant eggs or similiar to hives?
Quote from: Tyber Zann on Sep 21, 2008, 11:16:22 PM
Hello there.I have 2 simple questions.Did you enjoy writing Earth Hive thru Female War as much as I enjoyed reading them?And on the Queen Mother's homeworld,the huge pods were like giant eggs or similiar to hives?
Depends on how much you enjoyed reading them ...
I had a fine time writing 'em.
My vision of the xenos homeworld came out of the graphic novels -- I hadn't thought about it before I read those, so the illos in the comics were the default for me. (Truth is, I never thought they had a homeworld, I thought they were bioweapons created in a lab somewhere -- I never saw them as naturally -evolved creatures.
Interestingly enough, the 'Aliens: Genocide' novelization retcons out your "homeworld" from The Female War, making it into a "hiveworld", claiming that the Alien homeworld hasn't been located yet (or even conclusively shown if it exists. The other novels and comics tend to go back and forth on the topic and make it ambiguous, probably on orders from FOX to leave it open for a movie. Same reason the Predator "homeworld" wasn't covered in any media until 'AvP: Requiem').
Just a bit of trivia if you weren't aware of it.
I'll ask the quesion I was going to ask earlier; have you read Aliens: DNA War? If so what do you think of the ideas thrown in eg 'battleballs' etc.
I can't stress enough how much I loathe this 'battleball' idea, it's just ridiculous. The writer clearly hasn't seen an Alien movie in her life. And whats with the Huggers leaving the safety of their eggs to create large swarms and go and find hosts that way?!
I didn't have a problem with the "battleballs", because it sort of makes sense. If you've got a whole bunch of Aliens going into a to-the-death melee with eachother, they might just tackle eachother, tumble around, and then more Aliens dogpile on and the whole ruckus starts rolling around like a "ball". I don't see it as "contradictory" to the Alien movies because we never see Aliens battling it out with eachother in large swarms in the movies. In fact, if I double-checked the 'Aliens: Genocide' comic series I bet I could find a visual "representation" of one of the "battleballs".
I've some questions for Mr. Perry.
They don't have anything to do with the novels that he wrote....well, directly anyway.
1) When I write, I have a problem transitioning.
i.e. Bob is walking to the store. Something happens while he is walking, but I can string it all together. It's really annoying because I can write single scenes with action or speaking, just...I can't write static scenes.
2) When naming your characters....how do you choose a name that sounds right?!
Thanks ^-^
After you've answered the above question I'd like to ask you another Q too. When I write I've got trouble with pacing. When it's all in my head and I write it out there and then it seems fine, but when I finally read it through it seems too rushed. It's like a want to rush past everything else to get to the good stuff. Any tips?
Oh, that happens to me sometimes...
What I find is that if I write off the top of my head that doesn't happen, also, try not to think ahead because when I do it it seems horrible. Just me, maybe.
But the question was directed at Steve so.... ;D
Quote from: Cetanu on Sep 22, 2008, 08:18:59 PM
I've some questions for Mr. Perry.
They don't have anything to do with the novels that he wrote....well, directly anyway.
1) When I write, I have a problem transitioning.
i.e. Bob is walking to the store. Something happens while he is walking, but I can string it all together. It's really annoying because I can write single scenes with action or speaking, just...I can't write static scenes.
2) When naming your characters....how do you choose a name that sounds right?!
Thanks ^-^
It's a skill, like basketball or swimming. Only way to learn it is to practice it. Sometimes you need action, sometimes you need people to sit still, and you just have to write it. If it doesn't work, you rewrite it until it does. Yes, you don't want two people sitting at table telling each other stuff they both already know just so a reader can hear it, but there are times when dialog or exposition needs to be there, and you just have to do it.
Names, same thing. (You can cheat a little with these. I used to get a foreign language dictionary that showed English and a bunch of translations into other languages, and pick one that was fairly esoteric, like Swahili, and use a bunch of words from that, so the tone would be the same. Esperanto is a good language to use. Then when you make up a new name, try to make it sound like whatever language you are using.)
Here's a tip: If you can't read the name out loud without mis-pronouncing it? Lose it. If it's written "X'qrl qzzb" readers will stop when they read it and try to figure it out. You don't want that. They don't have to agree with how you'd say it, but it needs to look like something that they think they can.
Doesn't matter if they see yautja as "yoot-jah" or "yah-oot-jah" or "Yat-cha." As long as it flows.
Quote from: War Wager on Sep 22, 2008, 08:27:22 PM
After you've answered the above question I'd like to ask you another Q too. When I write I've got trouble with pacing. When it's all in my head and I write it out there and then it seems fine, but when I finally read it through it seems too rushed. It's like a want to rush past everything else to get to the good stuff. Any tips?
Pacing is tough to get. Again, practice is the key. You want a roller coaster effect -- drops, fast rushes, then climbs, slow spots, and drops again.
Here's a tip: Say you are writing a novel that runs about 75,000-85,000 words long, which is about what most of the Aliens/Preds/AvP tend to run. Any scene that runs more than four or five pages? It's too long. Cut it, or cut away from it and do something else, then come back if you must. Sit too long in any one spot, no matter how interesting you thing it is? Readers will get antsy. Move along.
Want an exercise? Sit down with a stopwatch and one of your favorite action movies and time each shot and scene. (Shots are different angles in the same place. When you move elsewhere, in space or time, that's a new scene.) You might be surprised to see how quick things jump around.
Now, do the same in a book -- don't need a watch. Just count the pages until the action moves. Doesn't jump as much, because you can get inside characters' heads and you have to tell the story with words.
In a movie, pictures tell the story more than the words. In a good action movie (or a really bad one), you can turn the sound off and still keep up with what is going on. Can do that in a comic. Can't in a novel, because the words are equivalent to the sound ...
It's so great to be able to ask an author about advice for writing. ;D
Thank You for the advice.
QuoteHere's a tip: If you can't read the name out loud without mis-pronouncing it? Lose it. If it's written "X'qrl qzzb" readers will stop when they read it and try to figure it out. You don't want that.
I once asked Mike Stackpole about one of the characters in his X-Wing books and how his name was pronounced and his answer was 'However it was pronounced on the audio books', and then offered how he
thought it was pronounced. I was little disppointed as I thought he should
know since he created the character. Not that he isn't an unfailiingly nice guy who wrote some good books or anything.
;D
That's funny...and disappointing.
Quote from: steveperry on Sep 22, 2008, 11:59:55 PM
Quote from: War Wager on Sep 22, 2008, 08:27:22 PM
After you've answered the above question I'd like to ask you another Q too. When I write I've got trouble with pacing. When it's all in my head and I write it out there and then it seems fine, but when I finally read it through it seems too rushed. It's like a want to rush past everything else to get to the good stuff. Any tips?
Pacing is tough to get. Again, practice is the key. You want a roller coaster effect -- drops, fast rushes, then climbs, slow spots, and drops again.
Here's a tip: Say you are writing a novel that runs about 75,000-85,000 words long, which is about what most of the Aliens/Preds/AvP tend to run. Any scene that runs more than four or five pages? It's too long. Cut it, or cut away from it and do something else, then come back if you must. Sit too long in any one spot, no matter how interesting you thing it is? Readers will get antsy. Move along.
Want an exercise? Sit down with a stopwatch and one of your favorite action movies and time each shot and scene. (Shots are different angles in the same place. When you move elsewhere, in space or time, that's a new scene.) You might be surprised to see how quick things jump around.
Now, do the same in a book -- don't need a watch. Just count the pages until the action moves. Doesn't jump as much, because you can get inside characters' heads and you have to tell the story with words.
In a movie, pictures tell the story more than the words. In a good action movie (or a really bad one), you can turn the sound off and still keep up with what is going on. Can do that in a comic. Can't in a novel, because the words are equivalent to the sound ...
Thanks very much.
Quote from: SM on Sep 23, 2008, 12:50:34 AM
QuoteHere's a tip: If you can't read the name out loud without mis-pronouncing it? Lose it. If it's written "X'qrl qzzb" readers will stop when they read it and try to figure it out. You don't want that.
I once asked Mike Stackpole about one of the characters in his X-Wing books and how his name was pronounced and his answer was 'However it was pronounced on the audio books', and then offered how he thought it was pronounced. I was little disppointed as I thought he should know since he created the character. Not that he isn't an unfailiingly nice guy who wrote some good books or anything.
I think maybe Mike was pulling your leg a little ...
Sometimes on the audiobooks, they'll call and ask how to pronounce a name, sometimes not. When you write for animation, there are some actors who get it and some who don't, and if you want the word pronounced a certain way, you sound it out in the script: Dirisha ("Duh-rish-uh") You can get away with that in a book if you work on it. In SW's: SOTE, one of the villain's names was "Xizor." I had a malfuntioning computer-operated form-chair address him out loud and slur the name, "Lord Sheeezorr ..." so people would know that the "Xi" was pronounced as "Sh." (Not my name, by the way -- somebody else came up with it, it's from, I think, Portuguese, that Xi combo.)
Another writing tip: Get a copy of
The Elements of Style, by Strunk and White. Best how-to book on writing out there. It's concise, to the point, and a great guide to muscular writing. Every couple years, I pull my copy off the shelf and re-read it, and usually learn something new -- or remember something I've forgotten.
One more writing tip: Now and then, take what you've written and read it aloud. Doesn't hurt to record it and play it back, but since some readers mentally real stuff aloud as they read, you can get a sense of how well it flows. If you have trouble reading it out loud, many of your readers are gonna have trouble reading it silently -- especially if the names don't parse.
Most writers have their own tricks, and most of those I know do this one. Don't have to do a whole chapter, just a page or two. When you do this, you will sometimes rewrite it because it doesn't sound right, and that's good.
Quote from: steveperry on Sep 23, 2008, 04:51:03 PM
In SW's: SOTE, one of the villain's names was "Xizor." I had a malfuntioning computer-operated form-chair address him out loud and slur the name, "Lord Sheeezorr ..." so people would know that the "Xi" was pronounced as "Sh." (Not my name, by the way -- somebody else came up with it, it's from, I think, Portuguese, that Xi combo.)
That reminds me, with the Shadows of the Empire project, I know it was sort of a large multimedia project that spanned a comic series, novel, and video game - how did that process work? Like, did everyone sit down and say "okay, let's work together to make the storyline, and then sort of divide up how it gets handled across the different media"? Or were you handed a pre-written plot outline with the characters already established, and then you fleshed it out and wrote the novel, something like that?
Bunch of us got together at Skywalker Ranch, sat down in a room, and decided what the story was going to be -- book folks, comic book people, artists, game guys, toy makers, all like that. We all pitched ideas, came up with a story line. I took notes, went home, wrote the outline, which was fairly extensive, and that was the basis for things.
If you want to know the details, Marc Cotta Vaz wrote a book about it. The Secrets of Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire
Pretty interesting stuff, on how it all came to be, and why.
Here's a random one...what's silat?
Quote from: Cetanu on Sep 23, 2008, 11:20:25 PM
Here's a random one...what's silat?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silat
I got an interesting Question for you.
If you've ever thought,don't you think the USCM would have more than just standard APC and Dropships on the Sulaco?There had to more armour and vehicles on that ship than that!Did you ever think of incorporating it into your stories originally?
QuoteIn SW's: SOTE, one of the villain's names was "Xizor." I had a malfuntioning computer-operated form-chair address him out loud and slur the name, "Lord Sheeezorr ..." so people would know that the "Xi" was pronounced as "Sh." (Not my name, by the way -- somebody else came up with it, it's from, I think, Portuguese, that Xi combo.)
See that actually confused me at the time. I think I heard before reading the book that it was 'She-zor', then the chair was mispronoucing it "Sheeezorr" and I was left with - how IS it pronouned then?
I've always heard it as "shee-zorr". I think Steve Perry's point was that the chair was "mispronouncing" it by slurring the name and making the "eee" and "orrrr" longer.
i hate to sound like a star wars nerd though i am,It's pronounced like Shiizor I believe.LucasArts may have gone with THIS pronounciation, for they use it in many of their game(IE Forces of Coruption has a brief apparance of him where it's pronounced 'Sheezor')
QuoteI think Steve Perry's point was that the chair was "mispronouncing" it by slurring the name and making the "eee" and "orrrr" longer.
I get that now - I didn't at the time.
Questions, of course:
1. You've said earlier that AVP's will continue to be made as long as they make money. Do you believe that the studio has decided to shift to Predator from AVP?
2. You also said you didn't like the story of AVP-R. If a different script writer came along, do you think the Strause Brothers can make a good AVP?
Quote from: Alienseseses on Sep 24, 2008, 02:08:35 AM
Questions, of course:
1. You've said earlier that AVP's will continue to be made as long as they make money. Do you believe that the studio has decided to shift to Predator from AVP?
2. You also said you didn't like the story of AVP-R. If a different script writer came along, do you think the Strause Brothers can make a good AVP?
No idea what the studios think -- they follow the money, generally. Since there have been four A's and only two AvP's, they might think that franchise has more life left in it. I would have thought so, but the most recent one didn't help.
An old joke in Hollywood is the T-shirt: "But I really want to
direct."
Colin and Greg Strause came out of visual EFX and they have done good work there. AvP:R was their first big directing project. It shows.
In Hollywood, if you write a couple hit movies, you will usually be offered a promotion; and that also happens to guys behind the camera, or doing stunt coordinating, art direction, or EFX, and actors, too. The promotion is to director. You get to run the show.
Not everybody can direct -- it is a different skill than writing or acting. Some make the transition better than others. Clint Eastwood is a better director than actor. Stephen King directed a movie early on, based on one of his stories, and he also wrote the script for it, Maximum Overdrive. As a director, he's a good writer. It wasn't a great movie.
It is possible that the Strause bros. will sharpen their skills. You would expect a third or fourth movie to be better than the first, assuming they are learning and applying what they know as they go. But the story in AvP:R wasn't there, and a good director has to have a good sense of story. They have to be able to read a script and visualize how it will look on-screen.
You can start with a good script and ruin it -- lot of hands touch it, and any of them can screw it up. Bad acting, directing, post-producting work, sound, editing, music, one rotten apple can spoil the barrel. You can also start with a so-so script, and if everybody else connected to the movie is brilliant, you can make it look better than it is -- but that's the harder route. Take a great script and mess around with it, it can still be good.
I haven't seen the script for AvP: R, so I dunno how much the bros. mucked around with it once it was turned it. I know that an ironclad rule in LaLaLand is that you can put kids in peril, but you don't kill then in messy ways onscreen. Remember the scene in Batman when Two-Face threatens Jim Gordon's kid? If he had killed that boy, the audience would have stormed the projection booth and lynched the guy running the projectorl
How long was it before we got the kid chestburster in AvP:R? Five minutes?
Stupid. I was done right there.
The movie was full of stuff like that. The bros. wanted it to Look Cool and they wanted it to be Over the Top. It did look cool in a couple spots, and it was over the top -- too far -- even hardcore fans I know said "Ick!"
How gross can we make it? is not the question you want to be asking yourself here. How do I make the audience care about these people? is.
If the bros. can address that question and get it? They can make a good movie. But they have to take off their fanboy hats and put on the storyteller caps.
Were there any scenes in AvPR that you felt worked well with the creatures? I mean did you feel the atmosphere or mood was good in some places?
Also what did you think of the PredAlien breeding among the maternity ward patients?
Okay, for me, discussing AvP:R in detail is kind of like dealing with the problems after the Titanic hit the iceberg by re-arranging the deck chairs. Looking for bright spots in the gloom is -- for me -- a waste of time. The movie didn't work as a whole, it didn't work big-time. That there might be a few grains of gold buried under the murk isn't enough to spend any energy looking for it.
Wish it into the cornfield and be done with it ...
Fair enough.
I know the movie sucks, I was just asking for an opinion as all.
In that case, here's a question about creative writing.
I am writing an AVP script, and I know you can't read it, and I know that Fox won't even think about looking at it. When I finish, what should I do with it?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 23, 2008, 11:42:11 PM
Quote from: Cetanu on Sep 23, 2008, 11:20:25 PM
Here's a random one...what's silat?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silat
I read that already, but I wanted to hear from a practitioner. What does it mean to him? Not to someone writing an informational article.
But thanks ;D
Quote from: Alienseseses on Sep 24, 2008, 11:34:53 PM
In that case, here's a question about creative writing.
I am writing an AVP script, and I know you can't read it, and I know that Fox won't even think about looking at it. When I finish, what should I do with it?
Put it in a drawer, or on a flashmem stick and write something else. The practice is good for you, and if you do a good script and ever get in a position where you might get a shot at writing some kind of science fiction action movie, you can use it as a sample of what you can do.
A friend and I wrote a novel once, and decided to do a script based on it. We did, had our agent send it out. Got a Hollywood meeting. We went in, they loved it, it was wonderful, terrific -- but they couldn't do it, too expensive. What else, they asked, did we have?
The script got us in the door. We blue-skied a pitch, they liked that, and we did a treatment and go another book out of it, though nobody ever picked up the idea for a movie.
There's no market for a spec AvP script. A lot of guys who have credits in the universe, book writers and comic book writers (including me) would have gladly taken a shot at the script for AvP or AvP:R, but they didn't ask us, they went with people who had screen or TV credits. Unless you have some of those to wave, nobody is going to consider it. Trust me here. Unless, of course, you come up with enough money to finance it and get the rights from Fox.
Quote from: Cetanu on Sep 25, 2008, 12:02:12 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 23, 2008, 11:42:11 PM
Quote from: Cetanu on Sep 23, 2008, 11:20:25 PM
Here's a random one...what's silat?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silat
I read that already, but I wanted to hear from a practitioner. What does it mean to him? Not to someone writing an informational article.
But thanks ;D
The wiki nails it down pretty well -- happens I know the guy who wrote it, and he's a player in the art.
Essentially, silat is a blade-based fighting system from SE Asia. Our version comes from west Java, and its an old-style MMA -- striking, grappling, standup and groundwork, knees, elbows, kicking, all like that, with or without weapons.
The idea is that you are going to face a guy who is bigger, stronger, faster, well-trained, armed, and probably with a buddy or two, and you want to be able to deal with all that. Not easy, but it's something to work for ...
Quote from: steveperry on Sep 25, 2008, 12:23:16 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Sep 24, 2008, 11:34:53 PM
In that case, here's a question about creative writing.
I am writing an AVP script, and I know you can't read it, and I know that Fox won't even think about looking at it. When I finish, what should I do with it?
Put it in a drawer, or on a flashmem stick and write something else. The practice is good for you, and if you do a good script and ever get in a position where you might get a shot at writing some kind of science fiction action movie, you can use it as a sample of what you can do.
A friend and I wrote a novel once, and decided to do a script based on it. We did, had our agent send it out. Got a Hollywood meeting. We went in, they loved it, it was wonderful, terrific -- but they couldn't do it, too expensive. What else, they asked, did we have?
The script got us in the door. We blue-skied a pitch, they liked that, and we did a treatment and go another book out of it, though nobody ever picked up the idea for a movie.
There's no market for a spec AvP script. A lot of guys who have credits in the universe, book writers and comic book writers (including me) would have gladly taken a shot at the script for AvP or AvP:R, but they didn't ask us, they went with people who had screen or TV credits. Unless you have some of those to wave, nobody is going to consider it. Trust me here. Unless, of course, you come up with enough money to finance it and get the rights from Fox.
Thanks. I do have a spec script that's unrelated to anything else... Well, that's a lie. It's a re imagining of a public domain movie. But I have it.
On the record, I just wanted to thank you for spending the time on sites like these. It must be annoying to be caught in an eternal interview, but you have no idea how helpful this is to us.
Quote from: steveperry on Sep 25, 2008, 12:30:16 AM
Quote from: Cetanu on Sep 25, 2008, 12:02:12 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 23, 2008, 11:42:11 PM
Quote from: Cetanu on Sep 23, 2008, 11:20:25 PM
Here's a random one...what's silat?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silat
I read that already, but I wanted to hear from a practitioner. What does it mean to him? Not to someone writing an informational article.
But thanks ;D
The wiki nails it down pretty well -- happens I know the guy who wrote it, and he's a player in the art.
Essentially, silat is a blade-based fighting system from SE Asia. Our version comes from west Java, and its an old-style MMA -- striking, grappling, standup and groundwork, knees, elbows, kicking, all like that, with or without weapons.
The idea is that you are going to face a guy who is bigger, stronger, faster, well-trained, armed, and probably with a buddy or two, and you want to be able to deal with all that. Not easy, but it's something to work for ...
Okay, thanks. I was just curious because in Turnabout you threw a shout-out at them ;D
It sounds nice, and the wiki article is nice. But I like more of the Japanese stuff.
Thanks again.
Here's yet another Q.
Most Alien stories involve somebody attempting to control the alien and fail. I can't see why this is always reused. What have you added to this formula?
It's a natural progression of the films right from the start. Unfortunately they just did it over and over and over and over....
Quote from: Alienseseses on Sep 26, 2008, 12:35:48 AM
Here's yet another Q.
Most Alien stories involve somebody attempting to control the alien and fail. I can't see why this is always reused. What have you added to this formula?
I didn't add anything -- wasn't my job. What I did was novelize the comics, until the most recent Pred book, so those were the frameworks around which my books were built.
Xenos are big nasty critters -- either you run into them in the wild, or you get into trouble when they escape from their cages.
It's an old, old idea -- that man's arrogance gets him into trouble. Pride goeth before a fall.
Ever been to the zoo? Hear the story about the kids taunting the tiger who somehow scaled his cage walls and killed them for their trouble? It's a natural worry, and they work it hard in the universe.
Thing is, there are only three plots, you know, according to Heinlein, so you are going to see some pretty familiar stuff in any story you pick up. And when you are dealing with big scary bugs, there's only so much you can with that unless you take them way away from their primary function, which is to be big scary bugs.
People who read these things aren't looking for Chekhov ...
Huh. I guess that makes sense, but what was Aliens? They didn't run into them in the wild, they confronted them. And Burk, though he did want the alien, didn't ever get the tiger in the first place.
And what was AVP? Was that in the wild, or escaped from cages?
QuoteThey didn't run into them in the wild, they confronted them.
The Jordens 'finding' the Derelict = "running into them in the wild".
AvP = escape from cages for the Predators/ in the wild for the humans.
I'd say more purposely bred.
If you believe as I do that the xenomorphs are war toys, biological weapons, then they never really existed in the wild. If some escape and a queen begins to breed outside captivity, that constitutes "wild," but it would be like a pair of tigers born in a zoo escaping and then having cubs somewhere out on Long Island. Zookeepers would prefer to capture the big cats and put them back into enclosures.
I suspect that most people come to the franchise to watch the movies or read the books because they are looking for a certain kind of adventure. Part of that is seeing humans go up against the aliens, and the easy way to do that is to have a supply of the critters in captivity close to where the humans are. Turn 'em loose, instant conflict.
The social structure of the xenomorphs is ant-like, in that there is a queen who lays all the eggs, and a lot of drones, and their primary drive seems to be to find hosts and continue their life-cycle via chest-bursters. Any planet where a lot of them are running around loose is going to be a constant struggle for potential hosts, and dangerous. You'd need a good reason to go there if you knew what was what.
Remember Ripley warning the company that it was a bad idea to go bug-hunting? But there were other forces at play, and they went.
Anybody who would go to a whole planet full of the critters would need a really good reason, or a death-wish.
Somebody steps into a cage with tigers is taking a risk, even with a gun, chair, and whip. That's why people go to see the show, that chance that the guy in the cage might get et. It happens.
A guy does it for money gets mauled? Too bad, he knew the risks. Somebody who gets into the cage because his girlfriend or daughter is out cold on the floor and he's trying to save her? That's a different story.
Quote from: War Wager on Sep 26, 2008, 08:41:48 AM
I'd say more purposely bred.
well in general yes, but most avp stories have the preds screwing up somehow and the aliens getting out of hand
an AvP story won't be very captivating if it only centres around a routine hunt
Quote from: happypred on Sep 26, 2008, 06:12:23 PM
Quote from: War Wager on Sep 26, 2008, 08:41:48 AM
I'd say more purposely bred.
well in general yes, but most avp stories have the preds screwing up somehow and the aliens getting out of hand
an AvP story won't be very captivating if it only centres around a routine hunt
Depends on how it was handled. I could see a "character" story about Predators hunting and all sorts of character-based things happen. "Political" maneuverings among Predators, hunting rivalries, pissing contests/one-upsmanship, etc. Sure it'd be light on action, but if done right it could have interesting character conflicts and the like.
Several years ago I was working on an AvP fan-fiction story on a bet; someone bet me that I couldn't do a "comedy" AvP story, so I wrote it where the humans are all afraid of the Predators and see them as these noble badasses with high-tech gear, but when it hops to the Predator perspective they're all essentially drunken frat-boys out using their guns and blowing shit up.
Just started reading Turnabout, very good read thus far. One thing that got me interested was the prolouge in that you make different comparisons from LA and the forests in Alaska. You call city dwellers 'drones' and that they are mindlessly killing the planet. This is of coarse very true, but I was wondering is this your opinion or Pauls?
I'm a little confused, who is Paul?
A character in the book.
Ohh... Mary's brother, right? Sorry, I totally spaced on his name.
I was a little suprised at how harsh Sloane was being when he and Mary were talking about him for the first time. Felt sorry for Mary but she seemed to be taking it well.
I have a question myself that relates more to buisness.
You and your daughter have written both novelized versions of comics and self made stories. How do these occur? Does Dark Horse contact you and request that you do these, or do you volounteer? And what would you recommend someone do if they wanted to work for DH in writing novels? I would very much like to know!
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 26, 2008, 09:19:39 PM
Depends on how it was handled. I could see a "character" story about Predators hunting and all sorts of character-based things happen. "Political" maneuverings among Predators, hunting rivalries, pissing contests/one-upsmanship, etc. Sure it'd be light on action, but if done right it could have interesting character conflicts and the like.
Several years ago I was working on an AvP fan-fiction story on a bet; someone bet me that I couldn't do a "comedy" AvP story, so I wrote it where the humans are all afraid of the Predators and see them as these noble badasses with high-tech gear, but when it hops to the Predator perspective they're all essentially drunken frat-boys out using their guns and blowing shit up.
I would love to see a predator-driven AvP story, or a one shot about a routine hunt where we just get to see different preds with different personalities, but it would be a tough sell to the average comic reader, that sort of stuff would only appeal to serious predator fans
OK, a new Q for Perry-san.
It's very vague, though.
In the predator films, the predator has always been the villain, absolute evil that must be destroyed. However, in some comics and the AVP films, the predators have been depicted as anti heroes, sometimes even heroes (as is the case with the Scar predator).
Do you think it is possible to have an AVP story where both sides are bad or does there have to be a protagonist on one side and an antagonist on the other?
After you answer those questions, I have a question about your writing compared to others.
How come in your books there always seems to be a lot of sexual....things? No offense, I likeyour writing, that's just something I linked together. Billie and Mitch, Mary and Sloane.....other stuff. Just wondering.
Quote from: Cetanu on Sep 28, 2008, 08:05:10 PM
After you answer those questions, I have a question about your writing compared to others.
How come in your books there always seems to be a lot of sexual....things? No offense, I likeyour writing, that's just something I linked together. Billie and Mitch, Mary and Sloane.....other stuff. Just wondering.
Because Sex makes it worth reading ;D
I'll try and cover a bunch of stuff here --
To write in somebody else's universe, pretty much have to have professional credits and get invited. My daughter got a shortcut because I was already working there, courtesy of Mike Richardson, who I know from before he started Dark Horse.
Lot of people want to play there, and they can pick and choose.
Attitude and actions expressed by characters in my books are theirs, and not necessarily mine. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I disagree, but I try and offer different viewpoints for balance. I think there is too much city in our world, sure enough, but I'm not Paul, who was too far the other way.
Sloane had no use for Paul or like-minded folks because, in his opinion, they didn't have a clue about how things work in the real world, and anybody who didn't do the research necessary to learn how to avoid being eaten by a bear deserved it. One thing if a bear breaks into your house and attacks you; another thing if you are trying to camp in the middle of a bunch of wild animals.
A story with all villains or all heroes doesn't offer much of a choice. Conflict is the essence of a tale, and good against bad (or bad against worse) works -- so anti-heroes will play. I thought ole Broken-Tusk was fairly heroic myself. in AvP Prey.
Villains don't always think of themselves as villains. Good ones don't sit around twirling their mustaches. They do what they do because they think it is the right thing, which makes it ever so much more interesting. Who is the villain, who the hero depends on where you are standing, here or there. One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.
Sex is why we are all here, and is at the heart of life. No sex, no people. And I think a lot of folks think about it a whole bunch, so I feel it's a valid subject to discuss. Plus, you are supposed to write what you know, and that's one of my areas of expertise ...
Sounds reasonable enough. Now, how would you recomend working towards getting a writing job? I read on DH's site that they look at writing submittions and take looks at ideas sent to them, given the mentioned requirements they give are met. What would it take to truly get their interest and get a possible book out?
Quote from: steveperry on Sep 28, 2008, 10:49:30 PM
Villains don't always think of themselves as villains. Good ones don't sit around twirling their mustaches. They do what they do because they think it is the right thing, which makes it ever so much more interesting. Who is the villain, who the hero depends on where you are standing, here or there. One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.
And yet, the predators were not only good, but in AVP they actually saved lives and such.
By villain for predator I mean not caring about human affairs, only thinking of them as meat to be slaughtered for fun, and having no regard for anything other than themselves.
Quote from: Predator755 on Sep 28, 2008, 11:29:28 PM
Sounds reasonable enough. Now, how would you recomend working towards getting a writing job? I read on DH's site that they look at writing submittions and take looks at ideas sent to them, given the mentioned requirements they give are met. What would it take to truly get their interest and get a possible book out?
Credits elsewhere top the list. Whatever idea you throw at them, they've heard a variation of it before. Ideas are cheap. Execution is what matters. (No matter how brilliant you think your idea is, how original, trust me here, it isn't. I've been there myself many times. It's all been done, and better, and what makes your story unique is that it's you writing it.)
And what counts is the finished product. I got a drawer full of ideas -- they are cheap.
Write and sell something that gets published elsewhere, then you can approach one of the franchised universes. Without credits, why would they pick you if they can pick any of fifty pros who they know can deliver?
Quote from: Alienseseses on Sep 28, 2008, 11:31:51 PM
Quote from: steveperry on Sep 28, 2008, 10:49:30 PM
Villains don't always think of themselves as villains. Good ones don't sit around twirling their mustaches. They do what they do because they think it is the right thing, which makes it ever so much more interesting. Who is the villain, who the hero depends on where you are standing, here or there. One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.
And yet, the predators were not only good, but in AVP they actually saved lives and such.
By villain for predator I mean not caring about human affairs, only thinking of them as meat to be slaughtered for fun, and having no regard for anything other than themselves.
They saved lives? At what point exactly? They attacked every human they came upon because they were slowing their trail down. As I can remember they killed 7 in total.
Mr Perry, just finished
Turnabout. Very enjoyable read, give it a 4/5. Few Q's though:
What does the title 'Turnabout' have to do with the story?
I've noticed your novel is a lot different than the movies. It's more of a horror piece and it's a lot more serious. Some of your writting was quite humerous eg Mary calling Sloane Rambo etc, but did you start with the intent on making it different than the movies?
Quote from: War Wager on Sep 29, 2008, 12:56:22 AM
What does the title 'Turnabout' have to do with the story?
I saw it as the hunter becoming the hunted - Sloane goes out there and starts picking off the Predators, essentially beating them at their own game.
Quote from: steveperry on Sep 29, 2008, 12:41:52 AM
Quote from: Predator755 on Sep 28, 2008, 11:29:28 PM
Sounds reasonable enough. Now, how would you recomend working towards getting a writing job? I read on DH's site that they look at writing submittions and take looks at ideas sent to them, given the mentioned requirements they give are met. What would it take to truly get their interest and get a possible book out?
Credits elsewhere top the list. Whatever idea you throw at them, they've heard a variation of it before. Ideas are cheap. Execution is what matters. (No matter how brilliant you think your idea is, how original, trust me here, it isn't. I've been there myself many times. It's all been done, and better, and what makes your story unique is that it's you writing it.)
And what counts is the finished product. I got a drawer full of ideas -- they are cheap.
Write and sell something that gets published elsewhere, then you can approach one of the franchised universes. Without credits, why would they pick you if they can pick any of fifty pros who they know can deliver?
Oh! I see! So I wouldnt be starting out there right off the bat, but have to have done other things prior, to prove that I actually can give them something promising, correct?
Quote from: Tyber Zann on Sep 28, 2008, 09:30:05 PM
Quote from: Cetanu on Sep 28, 2008, 08:05:10 PM
After you answer those questions, I have a question about your writing compared to others.
How come in your books there always seems to be a lot of sexual....things? No offense, I likeyour writing, that's just something I linked together. Billie and Mitch, Mary and Sloane.....other stuff. Just wondering.
Because Sex makes it worth reading ;D
XD
Quote from: steveperry on Sep 28, 2008, 10:49:30 PM
Sex is why we are all here, and is at the heart of life. No sex, no people. And I think a lot of folks think about it a whole bunch, so I feel it's a valid subject to discuss. Plus, you are supposed to write what you know, and that's one of my areas of expertise ...
Haha, okay, I was just curious. 'Areas of expertise...' ;D
Quote from: War Wager on Sep 29, 2008, 12:56:22 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Sep 28, 2008, 11:31:51 PM
Quote from: steveperry on Sep 28, 2008, 10:49:30 PM
Villains don't always think of themselves as villains. Good ones don't sit around twirling their mustaches. They do what they do because they think it is the right thing, which makes it ever so much more interesting. Who is the villain, who the hero depends on where you are standing, here or there. One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.
And yet, the predators were not only good, but in AVP they actually saved lives and such.
By villain for predator I mean not caring about human affairs, only thinking of them as meat to be slaughtered for fun, and having no regard for anything other than themselves.
They saved lives? At what point exactly? They attacked every human they came upon because they were slowing their trail down. As I can remember they killed 7 in total.
I'm referring to Scar, who protected Lex.
I apologize, Mr. Perry, if I have in effect offended you in some way. I suppose I was a bit flustered and, in turn, I was unable to express myself as eloquently as I would have liked. If you would be so kind as to hear me out once more, I would like to rephrase my initial sentiments.
Quote from: steveperry on Sep 11, 2008, 06:10:28 PM
The notion that I can't pronounce a word that I made up any way that I want is, not to put too fine a point on it, silly.
I didn't mean to insinuate you having an inability to pronounce a word of your own creation. I was honestly just asking a question.
[/quote]
For me to try and write material that is at odds with what I believe wouldn't work very well. The German Shepherd Dog comparison pissed a lot of people off because they don't agree, and I can understand that, but since that's what I believe, and I'm the guy putting the words through my fingers for people who believe the same thing, what would you have me do? Jettison my opinion and adopt yours?
Uh, no. My opinion might not be any more valid, but it
is mine, and since nobody has put forth any convincing reason why I should dump it and take up theirs, why would I? You think I'm wrong? Fine, no problem. I think I'm right, and I'm the guy who gets to say it in print. If you really have a case you think is watertight, take it to Fox and change their minds. [/quote]
I fully respect your opinion. I guess a better representation of my "point" would be akin to what Xenomrph alluded to after my last post. How much do the fans influence your work? I understand that your opinion trumps all others, but have you ever thought "Hmmm... maybe, despite my views, I should throw something in there for the Alien fans." ? I remember reading "Prey" when I was a considerably young Alien newcomer and thinking - When are the Aliens going to get their turn? - only for it to never come. I can't argue with your idea that an Alien is no match for a Predator, but if that's so, why even have a crossover? What's the point of having such a thrilling title such as AVP, if the content is more like 'humans face a dire dilemma as Predators kill Aliens'? I wouldn't write a book about Polar Bears fighting Penguins, mostly because I don't see that as much of a match. So, I guess I don't really see your point.
[/quote]
If you can do better, you have my blessing to try.
[/quote]
In an extended universe comprised of such a motley of viewpoints, I doubt I could do better. But, perhaps in my own way, just as good?
Quote from: Alienseseses on Sep 29, 2008, 02:21:54 AM
Quote from: War Wager on Sep 29, 2008, 12:56:22 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Sep 28, 2008, 11:31:51 PM
Quote from: steveperry on Sep 28, 2008, 10:49:30 PM
Villains don't always think of themselves as villains. Good ones don't sit around twirling their mustaches. They do what they do because they think it is the right thing, which makes it ever so much more interesting. Who is the villain, who the hero depends on where you are standing, here or there. One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.
And yet, the predators were not only good, but in AVP they actually saved lives and such.
By villain for predator I mean not caring about human affairs, only thinking of them as meat to be slaughtered for fun, and having no regard for anything other than themselves.
They saved lives? At what point exactly? They attacked every human they came upon because they were slowing their trail down. As I can remember they killed 7 in total.
I'm referring to Scar, who protected Lex.
He was about to blow her head of before the Aliens attacked. He gave her weapons to fend for herself, he never protected her once.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 29, 2008, 01:43:06 AM
Quote from: War Wager on Sep 29, 2008, 12:56:22 AM
What does the title 'Turnabout' have to do with the story?
I saw it as the hunter becoming the hunted - Sloane goes out there and starts picking off the Predators, essentially beating them at their own game.
Xeno has it nailed exactly. Look up the word "turnabout," it should be a pretty good clue to how the story will go.
As for working at DH, I suppose it is possible just to walk in off the street and get a job as a writer without any credits, but I don't know of anybody who has done it -- certainly not on the book end.
If you are looking for a doctor, chances are you'd rather be treated by somebody who went to medical school, did an internship, maybe a couple years of residency in a specialty, and then opened a practice.
Probably your first choice wouldn't be somebody who is an actor playing a doctor on TV who knows a lot of medical terminology but has never treated a real patient.
There is a fair amount of competition for writers in an established universe that has a big readership. The people who run those can pick from among a lot of really good writers who have track records -- they write cleanly, deliver on-time, and are easy to get along with. A newbie who has an idea but no history might or might not be able to deliver a book in a couple of months -- the editors have no way of knowing, and why would they take the risk that, come delivery date, the newbie is only a quarter of the way through the ms and bogged down so bad that s/he can't finish it?
I'll repeat this, because it is critical that you understand it:
Ideas by themselves aren't worth much.
A lot of people who don't write believe that an idea is the most important thing in a story. It isn't. I can't tell you how many times I've have people approach me -- and every pro writer I know -- with this proposition: "Hey, look, I have this terrific idea for a book. Tell you what -- I'll give it to you, you write it, and we'll split the money."
It doesn't take much effort to come up with an idea that will work for a book. You can probably find ten in the local newspaper on any given day. Turning an idea into a three or four hundred page manuscript is where the rubber meets the road.
Nobody wants to talk to you if you say, "Hey, I have a great idea for a book!" If you have a finished ms that flies like a bat out of hell and keeps them turning pages to get to the end, that's what they want. You have to have something to
show them. And it's a lot more impressive if it's published and you got paid for it.
If they are looking for somebody who can write science fiction or fantasy and you have a couple of novels in the genre that sold okay, you could be a contender. But even then, there will still be a lot of others you have to get past. You know how many people would give their left nut to be able to write a Star Wars novel? I had thirty books to my credit when I got a shot at my first SW's novel, I had Mike Richardson and the editor at Bantam going to bat for me at Lucasfilm, and I still had to send them books to audition.
If you are somebody that nobody knows, no track record, what have you got going for you?
There might be another path to get there, but I suspect it would be a lot like climbing Everest without oxygen ...
Got to get back to work -- Indiana Jones and the Army of the Dead are waiting for me ...
Quote from: Carnal Calligraphy on Sep 29, 2008, 07:18:20 AM
In an extended universe comprised of such a motley of viewpoints, I doubt I could do better. But, perhaps in my own way, just as good?
Anything is possible. But given what comes across in your posting, I don't think it's likely. I wouldn't hire you.
It isn't your universe, it belongs to somebody else, and if you want to work for them, your attitude matters. When my daughter and I wrote AvP:Prey, we were novelizing the graphic novels. We had some leeway in how we did it, and we took it, but the story was what it was, and if we had told the publisher and editor the kind of thing you've been telling me, I suspect we'd have been fired.
Asking a reasonable question is fine. Indicating that the guy who created a name doesn't know how to pronounce it indicates a certain lack of thought. There are times to be confrontational, but if, in a forum wherein the written word is the tool that you have to communicate and you can't demonstrate much ability to do it? That doesn't make me think that you have the skills to write professional-level fiction.
Editors don't have time for somebody who they think is apt to be in their face with attitude. Much easier to hire somebody who can do the work and who isn't going to be busting their balls instead.
I'm a fanboy. I get peeved at universes in which I read when the writers don't do things the way I think they should. But if I say so aloud, I pick my words carefully. I don't see that you've done that.
Alright, I think Ive got it down. Thank you very much for your advice and taking the time to respond to us! ;D
I've apologized for my earlier rants, I'm not sure what else I should do.
Of course, I didn't enter this forum looking for a job Mr. Perry.
In all honesty I hope that you can accept my apology, and thanks for the tips. I'll choose my words more carefully next time.
Quote from: Carnal Calligraphy on Sep 29, 2008, 11:53:38 PM
I've apologized for my earlier rants, I'm not sure what else I should do.
Of course, I didn't enter this forum looking for a job Mr. Perry.
In all honesty I hope that you can accept my apology, and thanks for the tips. I'll choose my words more carefully next time.
Here's the thing -- all of your posts are public and easy to find. You have a point of view, you state it provocatively, and defend it. Which is fine, but which also reveals your attitude. What comes across is that Fox, Dark Horse, and I should heed your opinion. I believe I've explained that I don't think much of that notion, and why Fox and Dark Horse aren't apt to, either.
Confrontation runs through most of your posts. Kicking in the door to the bar, calling folks names and offering challenges is not the way to get into a reasonable conversation.
You indicate that, in your own way, you think you can "do as good" (as a writer) in the universe. You say you aren't looking for a job, but it obvious that you have been doing fan-fic and consider that you can run with the pros. I hear that you'd love to get a chance, and if you did, you'd blow us all off the stage.
Subtext is a wonderful thing. Lot of stuff between the lines.
I can accept your apology, if it is honestly offered, but I don't believe that it is. (And in fact, it doesn't really sound like a apology anyhow: "
i apologize, Mr. Perry, if I have in effect offended you in some way."Rather like calling somebody stupid and then saying, "I'm sorry you're stupid.")
When I recall you saying that I f****ing well should ask your opinion about how things should be in the Aliens universe, it disposes me to consider you arrogant. When I see you telling other folks on this board to stop kissing my ass, I don't hear the voice of sweet reason. When you try and spin it so you weren't being insulting but merely asking an honest question, you are being disingenuous. You are still pounding the same drum, and as long as you do, saying "I'm sorry" in a non-apology mode doesn't wipe the slate clean.
No big deal.
I will admit that there are a few things that I have said I still stand by, but in retrospect most of the things I said were pompous and came across wrong. This is why I've not posted on this thread for quite some time. I was deflating my ego in order to accept the faults as best I could. I DO fully understand you stance, and I've attempted to put myself in your shoes and imagine what other fans would dislike about my work. It's worked magnificently. I am sympathetic to the position you're in, and maybe I just have an isufficient amount of tact as opposed to the norm. I've read the rest of this thread, and I've seen how diplomatic everyone else was, regardless of their grievance. It's absolutely impossible to please everyone. I see that now. If I achieve nothing else here, I simply want you to know that I am genuinely sorry for my antics.
A "continuity" question for Mr Perry... with a twist!
How do you view the myriad Aliens, Predator, and AvP materials? Like, are they part of one continuous timeline, so things that took place in, say, the first 'AvP' movie also occured in your Aliens novels, and your AvP novel?
In series based on a well-known property, like Conan or Star Trek or Star Wars or the Aliens/Predator series, the extensions of the universe tend to fall into two categories -- canon and non-canon. I use the term here not in the musical sense, but in the religious meaning, that of books considered genuine and valid.
Who decides which is which is usually whoever owns the property. In Star Wars, the movies are canon. Some of the other stuff is, but some is not clearly so. Anybody remember the Marvel Comics in the Star Wars saga that feature Jaxxon, who is a giant green rabbit?
You know whoever wound up doing continuity wished that one into the cornfield.
Conan's history in the movies doesn't match that in the books. Attempts were made to cover this by saying, "Some say Conan was a pitfighter from Cimmeria, while others have it that he was a thief ..."
Generally when these things start, nobody thinks about continuity because nobody really expects them to take off like they sometimes do. Nobody had a clue making the first SW's film that it was going to be the blockbuster it became. And by the time somebody tried to get a handle on it, there was a lot of material that went way out there and wasn't considered canon.
When I started working for SW's, I asked them for a map of the galaxy. They laughed at me.
There was a fan who painstakingly went through all the material he could find and laid out the planets and locales and such. He sent me a copy of what he'd done. I mentioned it to Lucasfilm.
Eventually, they bought it from him and used the material.
All of which is to say that I don't have anything to do with the continuity of the series for which I write. Some of what I have done becomes canon. I've seen bits worked into subsequent movies, a spaceship here, a sequence there, but that's not my decision. I try and do the best I can to stay in line with the story as I understand it.
For trivia's sake, that Jaxxon stuff from the old Star Wars comics has actually been "ret-conned" into canon (for better or for worse). I think it was Pablo Hidalgo, an a former writer for West End Games who worked on the old Star Wars RPG and now works for LucasFilm, who was a self-admitted Jaxxon fan who made it his personal mission to get Jaxxon put back into the continuity as actual Star Wars canon, and since then Jaxxon has been name-dropped in a few of the books and reference guides and issues of Star Wars Insider magazine as a way to "reactivate" him as a canonical character. You can read more about it here (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jaxxon#Behind_the_scenes).
Take that as you will, I guess.
Hi again Steve, you've answered some questions for me in the past and it hank you for that.
i'm just curious from you saying your a fan boy........if you were given absolute free reign what would be you ultimate geek out story to write?
weather it be rewriting the original star wars or a crossover with Dachande hunting Boba Fett?
What would make your geek'o'meter explode as you were writing it
The idea of a predator hunting Boba Fett just made my geek'o'meter go off.
!
My head just exploded
!
Quote from: Xenomrph on Oct 20, 2008, 07:30:07 PM
For trivia's sake, that Jaxxon stuff from the old Star Wars comics has actually been "ret-conned" into canon (for better or for worse). I think it was Pablo Hidalgo, an a former writer for West End Games who worked on the old Star Wars RPG and now works for LucasFilm, who was a self-admitted Jaxxon fan who made it his personal mission to get Jaxxon put back into the continuity as actual Star Wars canon, and since then Jaxxon has been name-dropped in a few of the books and reference guides and issues of Star Wars Insider magazine as a way to "reactivate" him as a canonical character. You can read more about it here (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jaxxon#Behind_the_scenes).
Take that as you will, I guess.
Putting the pooka's name hither and yon sounds like a hoot, but I'd be real surprised if he ever achieves canon. Never was, and like the Books of the Apocrypha I don't see it.
I was thrilled when Dash's ship made a brief appearance in the remastered Ep. IV, but then again, having Greedo shoot first? No way.
As to ultimate fanboy stories? Too much space to narrow it down, especially once you allow for cross-universe stuff. The mind boggles.
Hey Steve,
What do you think about the idea of a Predator or a Aliens vs. Predator story taking place in feudal Japan, during the Samurai? Do you think that would be a good setting? I kind of see the Predators, as almost like samurai warriors. Maybe the Predators are "demons" and Aliens are "dragons" to the Samurai.
Reminds me of Concrete Jungle with that last question.
Have you ever wondered why...?
*has been reading through this thread for the past several hours now*
Ok, besides occasionally making me laugh, making me think "there's a word war going to happen" at spots, and just gathering interesting opinions from everyone and tips on writing from Mr. Perry later on in this looooooooooooong thread, I thought maybe to comment and question on some things...
Quote from: steveperry on Jun 14, 2008, 02:58:25 PMXenomorphs are war toys, developed by some species a whole lot smarter for biological warfare. Nothing else makes any sense. If they evolved naturally, they wouldn't be at the top of their world's food chain, otherwise, why acid for blood? Like the South American frog used for arrow poison, the reason you have acid for blood is to make you taste bad enough to keep something from killing and eating you. Think about it.
How can we know for sure that the aliens are bio-engineered "war-toys"? For all we know, they evolved naturally on, say, a varied eco-system world where they had predators who could hunt and kill them, even with their adaptations of hard exoskeleton and acid blood? (I think another member mentioned this bit already.)
I know, someone will say that couldn't have happened because humans "Created" the species like they did with "Predator", which leads to this post:
Quote from: steveperry on Jun 09, 2008, 07:32:37 PMHumans created them both, remember?
That begs the question of "how did we "create" these species?"
What's to say we humans honestly didn't see the Predators actually hunting the Aliens in the human race's past and fled before the Predators realized humans were there, so they didn't know we learned about their existence? They just finished their hunt, cleaned up any "lose ends" with their prey – the aliens – and left planet earth (if that was the planet we "saw" them on, but I'm not going to get into that issue. would take us waaaay off topic! ;) lol)
What's to say that our myths and legends aren't a reflection of those species – and when you get myths and legends handed down in writing in more than one language and with no "pictures" than everyone would see those "creatures" just a little bit – or a lot – different.
And if that did happen, would anyone who didn't see those species first hand truly believe those who did? Kinda makes you wonder....
following questions are more of a "what's your take" on this topic/opinion and relates to writing stories overall, regardless of the subject chosen to be written on or whether they will be novels, movies or tv "mini-series", "movies of the week", etc. and i'm curious as to Mr. Perry's reply to them, which is why i've included them in this post. :)
So again, have you every wondered why – and where – we get the information to "create" species for stories? Where does imagination come from? Our myths and legends? Or "random" ideas? are they based on just "imagination" or facts from our interaction with other species – maybe even including the Predators and Aliens? What is "fantasy" anyway? How does that relate to the imagination that "creates" things we say are fantasy – like the predators and aliens?
What's to say that this isn't an attempt of ourselves tying us into other worlds that actually exist, yet we ourselves are not evolved enough to see as "reality" like our current own? So we write those species down as "fiction", "fantasy" and the like?
Quote from: steveperry on Sep 05, 2008, 09:21:29 PM
Literary bankruptcy happens to all the writers I know. I call it Chapter Eleven, because that's usually where I run into it. Initial enthusiasm flags, you run out of steam. The cure is to keep going, even if what you write sucks, because once you get a draft done, you can always go back and rewrite, and it's easier to do that than come up with original material.
The Dreaded Second Act is what separates the pros from the amateurs. If you stop, you never get anything finished, and if you can't finish it, you can't get it published. Even if you just muddle through and you wind up having to fix most of it, that gets you a whole ms.
(That idea about the terraforming machines was off the top of my head. Or maybe from out another, lower part of my anatomy, I sometimes get accused of writing from there. Anybody wants it is welcome to it.)
I know that feeling, though I just let the stories in question site on my computer for a few days...weeks...um months? Damn it, I have to get back to read through those getting dusty, but I currently got Predators on my back to get some crossovers done that I do just for fun. *rolls eyes*
questions: how can you work past those "blocks" and continue the story, even with bits and peices worked into it? just keep refining the story part in question until you get it to flow right with the rest of the story around it?
Quote from: steveperry on Sep 14, 2008, 11:09:11 PMCharacter development is what makes a movie hold my interest. If they are all cardboard, who cares what happens to them? Ripley, you remember. Everybody remembers Ripley.
you're right on the character development part of any story – that's what holds a reader's or watcher's interest, followed by a believable situation, no matter how "far fetched" it seems.
on character development: what is a balance to use for a character? or does it matter more with the character in question's situation at those points in the story that make up for the development of the character as a whole?
Quote from: steveperry on Sep 14, 2008, 11:09:11 PMMy lawyer won't let me look at unread mss by anybody I don't know well enough to trust. We don't want to find ourselves in court someday with an irate writer who claims we swiped his idea. Not that it's likely in a universe where the writer doesn't own any of the rights, but stranger things have happened.
Sorry. Nature of the biz.
I'd be too damn proud if you or another writer I liked, and we got to talking, used any of my ideas in a storyline that was eventually published! Pity you have that restriction but very understandable.
Quick question, which I hope you don't mind me asking: just how do you keep your characters from being brats on you and throwing in unexpected "moves" and situations into the story?
i'm asking this mainly cos as I'm reading this thread, I'm working on a second rough draft of Forever Friends: Stranded (a friend and I are co-writing a predator/starlight express "real life" story line, just for the fun of it...).
Quote from: steveperry on Sep 25, 2008, 12:23:16 AMThere's no market for a spec AvP script. A lot of guys who have credits in the universe, book writers and comic book writers (including me) would have gladly taken a shot at the script for AvP or AvP:R, but they didn't ask us, they went with people who had screen or TV credits. Unless you have some of those to wave, nobody is going to consider it. Trust me here. Unless, of course, you come up with enough money to finance it and get the rights from Fox.
Unless of course you have the money to back the script, or at least half of the money necessary to produce it. Wouldn't that get Fox's attention in one hell of a hurry? Think that could ever happen? For AVP, Predator or Alien? Or?
Your tips on writing and such will be something I keep in mind as I write. Thanks for reading, and answering, the questions above. :) I'll check back later as it's very late where I am (when this is/was posted) and I'm going to head to bed.
I hope.
If those damn predators let me off the story board writing hook. ::)
lol. g'nite all, smokeykit
Lot points to ponder.
Existentialism isn't my forte, so what's real and what isn't and where things all came from, I'm not your guy. Talk to Camus. This sounds like an old acid rap, and maybe it's better left there ...
I haven't -- knock on wood -- gotten writers' block. If I get stalled on something, I work on something else, so it helps to have a couple of projects going.
As for working through such things, those are always going to be personal solutions. You can skip ahead and write a scene you know is coming to prime the pump, or go back and rewrite something.
Characters sometimes do step up and demand more screen-time, and you have to decide if they are worthy. If they are, give it to them. If not, you don't. I go with what feels right, and if I'm on a deadline, finishing on time is primary, so divas get swatted down.
I pitched a story set in Samurai japan, but it was, alas, shot down.
Do you ever pitch stories more than once to the same people? Like, if you pitched a Samurai story and it got shot down, is it worth waiting a little while and pitching it again, or do you just say "Oh well, their loss" and never consider it again?
I say this because I'd love to read a Predator story set in Samurai-era Japan. The topic gets mentioned briefly in one of the comics ("Predator: Blood Feud", if I remember right) but it's not expanded on in any meaningful way other than that the Samurai referred to the Predators as "the Oni".
thanks, Mr. Perry, for answering. :)
Quote from: Xenomrph on Nov 13, 2008, 02:24:23 AM
Do you ever pitch stories more than once to the same people? Like, if you pitched a Samurai story and it got shot down, is it worth waiting a little while and pitching it again, or do you just say "Oh well, their loss" and never consider it again?
I say this because I'd love to read a Predator story set in Samurai-era Japan. The topic gets mentioned briefly in one of the comics ("Predator: Blood Feud", if I remember right) but it's not expanded on in any meaningful way other than that the Samurai referred to the Predators as "the Oni".
I suppose I could pitch it again, if they wanted another Predator book from me -- the editor who passed on it before is gone, so it might fly. At the moment, I have three or four other books I have to get done, so I can't really offer them anything right now.
You should totally pitch it again when you get the chance, I'd like to think you could do the topic justice and that it would be well-received by fans.
Tangentially, are you ever made aware of the sales figures for your books? And if you do, are there any sorts of trends you notice, like certain kinds of books that sell better than others? (licensed books, original ideas, certain genres, etc)
Yes, I recently heard about that. Shame about Victoria. You happen to know why?
Steve,
I totally support the idea of writing a Predator novel, set in Japan, during the Samurai. I think you could certainly write one hell of a story. Try to pitch it again, for sure. I have an idea for an AVP story, set in feudal Japan that I have been thinking about writing, for a while.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Nov 15, 2008, 01:27:18 AM
Tangentially, are you ever made aware of the sales figures for your books? And if you do, are there any sorts of trends you notice, like certain kinds of books that sell better than others? (licensed books, original ideas, certain genres, etc)
I get royalty reports on sales -- supposed to come twice a year, but they tend to run late. Notes from the publisher when they go back for another reprinting.
And you can pick up any of the novels and look in the front, they list how many printings have been done. The earliest books in the A, P, or AvP universe, which have been around the longest, tend to sell the best. Last time I checked, the first Aliens and AvP were both up into the twenty-something printings. I dunno yet how well Turnabout is doing.
Female War just went back to press for a couple thousand more copies.
Big franchises, like Star Wars, sell the best. My personal books do okay, but the numbers aren't anywhere close to what Luke and Leia and Chewy get.
Well Hello Mr. Perry!!!!!!! I enjoyed the new predator novel, though ithought the predator wasnt in it enough. I only have 2 two questions. 1st why wasnt there alot of the predator in turnabout? I enjoyed it but why. The 2nd is will you write another predator book or even better an alien book?!?!?!?! could you maybe find out? I know this is pushing the envelope a bit but it's just that your like the best Sci-fi writer ever!
If you were to write an alien novel like your wife's( criminal enterprise kicked major umm never mind sorry) wat aould it be called and wat would the storyline be? any Ideas. Thanks for replying for wat ever answer you put. you rock.
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 15, 2008, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Nov 15, 2008, 01:27:18 AM
Tangentially, are you ever made aware of the sales figures for your books? And if you do, are there any sorts of trends you notice, like certain kinds of books that sell better than others? (licensed books, original ideas, certain genres, etc)
I get royalty reports on sales -- supposed to come twice a year, but they tend to run late. Notes from the publisher when they go back for another reprinting.
And you can pick up any of the novels and look in the front, they list how many printings have been done. The earliest books in the A, P, or AvP universe, which have been around the longest, tend to sell the best. Last time I checked, the first Aliens and AvP were both up into the twenty-something printings. I dunno yet how well Turnabout is doing.
Female War just went back to press for a couple thousand more copies.
Big franchises, like Star Wars, sell the best. My personal books do okay, but the numbers aren't anywhere close to what Luke and Leia and Chewy get.
heh I recently purchased Turnabout.
I would like to ask a question. Have you ever thought of doing something more Historic-fictional?
Quote from: The Lizard King on Jan 24, 2009, 03:17:56 PM
Well Hello Mr. Perry!!!!!!! I enjoyed the new predator novel, though ithought the predator wasnt in it enough. I only have 2 two questions. 1st why wasnt there alot of the predator in turnabout? I enjoyed it but why. The 2nd is will you write another predator book or even better an alien book?!?!?!?! could you maybe find out? I know this is pushing the envelope a bit but it's just that your like the best Sci-fi writer ever!
If you were to write an alien novel like your wife's( criminal enterprise kicked major umm never mind sorry) wat aould it be called and wat would the storyline be? any Ideas. Thanks for replying for wat ever answer you put. you rock.
Well, for the first one, the Predators were in in just enough to tell the story I wanted to tell. Any more would have been too much, any less, too little. My book, I got to decide.
Dunno if I will get back to the universe. I have other books lined up and need to get to them first. Maybe some day, but a lot will depend on what I'm doing, and what the market for A, P, or AvP is doing, and whether DH wants to do any more.
Quote from: Logan on Jan 25, 2009, 11:44:32 PM
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 15, 2008, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Nov 15, 2008, 01:27:18 AM
Tangentially, are you ever made aware of the sales figures for your books? And if you do, are there any sorts of trends you notice, like certain kinds of books that sell better than others? (licensed books, original ideas, certain genres, etc)
I get royalty reports on sales -- supposed to come twice a year, but they tend to run late. Notes from the publisher when they go back for another reprinting.
And you can pick up any of the novels and look in the front, they list how many printings have been done. The earliest books in the A, P, or AvP universe, which have been around the longest, tend to sell the best. Last time I checked, the first Aliens and AvP were both up into the twenty-something printings. I dunno yet how well Turnabout is doing.
Female War just went back to press for a couple thousand more copies.
Big franchises, like Star Wars, sell the best. My personal books do okay, but the numbers aren't anywhere close to what Luke and Leia and Chewy get.
heh I recently purchased Turnabout.
I would like to ask a question. Have you ever thought of doing something more Historic-fictional?
Sure. I've written a lot of books over thirty-odd years, might be an historical fiction novel will crop up some day. I don't have one on the drawing board, but you never know.
Quote from: The Lizard King on Jan 24, 2009, 03:17:56 PM
If you were to write an alien novel like your wife's( criminal enterprise kicked major umm never mind sorry) wat aould it be called and wat would the storyline be? any Ideas. Thanks for replying for wat ever answer you put. you rock.
For the record, she's his daughter, not wife.
Mr Perry,
I started reading 'Star Wars: Death Star' which you co-wrote with Michael Reaves, and I thought I'd ask some questions about co-authoring books.
1. what's it like co-writing fiction? Like, how do you approach it? Do you have certain things you plan out in advance, and how do you handle when you and the other author(s) disagree on something you want to include or omit?
2. What is the physical writing process like? I mean, do you alternate chapters, or designate certain sections or scenes you want to write, etc?
3. How was writing with Michael Reaves on 'Death Star' similar/different from writing with your own daughter for the Aliens and AvP books?
4. Most importantly, do you enjoy doing it, or do you prefer to write "solo"?
Thanks in advance!
Projects are different. Usually we do an outline in advance. Sometimes, one of us does a first draft, and the other guy rewrites it. Sometimes, we alternate sections -- either chapter by chapter, or maybe one guy writes about one character, the other writer does a different one. Action sequence or exposition. Depends on several things that tend to vary from book to book.
Each collaborator is also different. Sometimes one of the writers is senior and directs things. Sometimes the partnership is more equal. Generally, somebody is designated as the writer who has the last pass; otherwise, you could ship stuff back and forth forever and never get done. Depends too, upon the deadline for the publisher. Usually each writer gets a pass and one of them does the final touch-up.
With my daughter, I was the senior writer. She did most of the work, and I touched it up. With Michael, the first books we did, he was the senior writer, and that's how it went. Later, after we were more on a par, that shifted.
If I didn't enjoy it, I wouldn't do it. The biggest drawbacks are two: One, is that you don't get to do it all your way; you have to allow room for the other writer to put his or her opinion in and sometimes you don't agree. You have to let that go.
Plus you only get half the money.
I like doing my own stuff better for those two reason -- nobody tells me what I can write, and I get the full advance, less my agent's cut.
Somewhere in a drawer I have a collaboration, an (unpublished) short story I did with Bill Gibson years ago. One of these days, I'm gonna put it up on eBay and see how much it's worth.
Awesome, thanks for the insight. :)
Tangentially, what's your opinion on "pet" characters? This is sort of more of a Star Wars franchise thing where certain authors seem to exclusively write about their "pet" characters, or at least feature them in their stories (Timothy Zahn's use of Mara Jade and Thrawn, Michael Stackpole's use of Corran Horn, Michael Reaves' use of I-5YQ (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/I-5YQ)).
Some authors I've noticed ONLY write stories about their characters and pretty much make them take the front seat in their stories (this is more the case with Timothy Zahn and Michael Stackpole) while others like Michael Reaves will feature their characters but not really make them the focus of the action; they're just sort of "there".
If you create a character, you want to play with him, her, or it, especially in a shared-universe. There are constraints on all of the players, but fewer on somebody who is not movie-canon. And sometimes they get popular enough to make a jump into higher status. Mara Jade has become one of the most popular female characters in SW's.
I've seen artwork, one-off figurines, cards, and did a comic book miniseries featuring Guri, my human replica droid. Xizor and even Dash Rendar have gone beyond Shadows. Michael's I-5 has recurring roles in his underground noir SW's books. (He's Reaves's creation, but I named him -- for the interstate highway between where I live and where Reaves lives ...)
Just a quick question. Will we see new AVP novels anytime soon?
Quote from: steveperry on Mar 04, 2009, 12:28:25 AM
If you create a character, you want to play with him, her, or it, especially in a shared-universe. There are constraints on all of the players, but fewer on somebody who is not movie-canon. And sometimes they get popular enough to make a jump into higher status. Mara Jade has become one of the most popular female characters in SW's.
I've seen artwork, one-off figurines, cards, and did a comic book miniseries featuring Guri, my human replica droid. Xizor and even Dash Rendar have gone beyond Shadows. Michael's I-5 has recurring roles in his underground noir SW's books. (He's Reaves's creation, but I named him -- for the interstate highway between where I live and where Reaves lives ...)
I know I-5 is in the Medstar books and he's in the Coruscant Nights ones (and I guess he's indirectly referenced in Death Star) but didn't he also show up in Reaves' old "Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter" book, too?
By the way, if you're ever looking for something to get Michael Reaves for his birthday, I-5 is getting his own action figure (http://www.rebelscum.com/TF2009/Hasbropanel/image34.asp) later this year. :P
Far as I know, no AvP novels coming from Dark Horse in the near future.
First came Aliens, then Predators, and getting the two together was Dark Horse's idea, but that needed permission from both franchises. One of the reasons it took so long to get AvP the movie done, all that had to be hashed out.
Once the AvP movies got made, the rights got even more tangled up, and last I heard, DH didn't have a license for books AvP. Could always change, of course.
I-5 action figure. Funny.
This may have already been asked somewhere, (if it was I couldn't find it) but do you know if Michael Jan Friedman (or anyone else for that matter) is planning on ever making good on any of the plot hooks that he started in Original Sin? I know opinions have been mixed on that book, but I liked it overall despite its flaws, and would like to see those ideas explored more fully.
Which plot hooks?
The stuff about 'Loki', and the Jockeys trying to breed or what the hell-ever. It didn't make much sense, but I thought if fleshed out and tweaked a bit, it could make for some really interesting stories. I don't know, perhaps I'm alone in this opinion.
If it's just you and me talking - then yeah you're alone. ;) Though I;m sure there are others out there who want to see it expanded. Personally I hated that aspect of Original Sin. The whole "Company knew all along" is not supported by the films. Including the Jockies in the conspiracy, just pushed it WAY over the top.
Quote from: Mr. Domino on Mar 13, 2009, 01:54:26 AM
The stuff about 'Loki', and the Jockeys trying to breed or what the hell-ever. It didn't make much sense, but I thought if fleshed out and tweaked a bit, it could make for some really interesting stories. I don't know, perhaps I'm alone in this opinion.
what was original sin about? could you provide some spoilers?
Quote from: Mr. Domino on Mar 11, 2009, 04:40:18 PM
This may have already been asked somewhere, (if it was I couldn't find it) but do you know if Michael Jan Friedman (or anyone else for that matter) is planning on ever making good on any of the plot hooks that he started in Original Sin? I know opinions have been mixed on that book, but I liked it overall despite its flaws, and would like to see those ideas explored more fully.
Got me. I haven't heard anything about going any farther down this road.
I don't think I saw this question asked earlier, but what do you like to read for fun? Genres, authors, series, topics, etc.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 19, 2009, 06:07:20 PM
I don't think I saw this question asked earlier, but what do you like to read for fun? Genres, authors, series, topics, etc.
A wide swath of material -- SF, fantasy, mystery, mainstream, non-fiction, biographies, science, philosophy, religion, newspapers, blogs, pretty much anything well-written that comes to hand -- books, magazines, short stories, comics, even cereal boxes ...
Got any choice comic book titles you've been reading as of late?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 19, 2009, 10:09:19 PM
Got any choice comic book titles you've been reading as of late?
I re-read Watchmen recently. Still liked the comic -- way better than the movie.
I like the Watchmen graphic novel quite a bit, but I much prefer the movie's ending.
Zach Snyder said we can expect a huge multi-disc DVD release for the movie that'll be super-faithful to the comic in the same way the Lord of the Rings movies/DVDs were handled; I'm definitely looking forward to that.
If I get an agent, and I want to write an original Aliens novel, what do I do?
Quote from: Hudson on Mar 30, 2009, 09:59:36 PM
If I get an agent, and I want to write an original Aliens novel, what do I do?
So here is the hard truth:
Write other science fiction and fantasy novels and get some solid credits. The folks at Dark Horse -- when they have books to let -- can pick and choose writers, and they want people they know can deliver clean work, on time.
If you have no professional credits as a fiction writer, it is past unlikely that you can get the gig. Why would they take a chance on somebody they don't know when they can get a pro they know who will give them what they want?
If they have a license to do, say, five books, there are easily a hundred writers they can get hold of with credit sheets out the wazoo who would love to take a crack at them.
Newbs tend to say, "Yeah, well, but I have a fantastic idea for a book!"
And editors tend to yawn and say, "Yeah, so?"
Lot of folks have good ideas for books -- but good ideas are cheap, and what is more important is the ability to turn the idea into a finished novel. Without some credits to wave at 'em, they don't know you, and have no reason to trust that you can pull it off.
Say you break your leg and you need orthopedic surgery. Who would you choose -- a doctor who had done that surgery a hundred times successfully, or one who hadn't done it once?
That's how it is in most franchised universes. You have to earn your way in.
Quote from: steveperry on Apr 02, 2009, 11:57:02 PM
Say you break your leg and you need orthopedic surgery. Who would you choose -- a doctor who had done that surgery a hundred times successfully, or one who hadn't done it once?
that's a gem right there
Hey Steve
I'm now about to read Aliens Criminal Enterprise,
I can't wait been looking forward to reading this for a while :)
Question: I've written a sci-fi, adventure, romance novel and I'm trying
to find an literacy agent or a publisher to accept my novel submission.
I believe in my work a lot but things seem to be going a bit slow at the
present moment. Is there anything you could do to help?
Or any contacts you know who would be interested in having a look at it?
I posted a topic about my novel on here a few months back. Here is the
link http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=21482.0
Thanks
Quote from: Alien3 on Apr 03, 2009, 10:35:54 AM
Hey Steve
I'm now about to read Aliens Criminal Enterprise,
I can't wait been looking forward to reading this for a while :)
Question: I've written a sci-fi, adventure, romance novel and I'm trying
to find an literacy agent or a publisher to accept my novel submission.
I believe in my work a lot but things seem to be going a bit slow at the
present moment. Is there anything you could do to help?
Or any contacts you know who would be interested in having a look at it?
I posted a topic about my novel on here a few months back. Here is the
link http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=21482.0
Thanks
It's a slow business, and no real way to hurry it up. Get online and get a list of agents who are willing to look at new writers -- or get Writers Markets and see if there are still book houses reading unagented writers. Write a short cover letter, tell them who you are -- any credits that might help -- and a little about the book. One page, max. Send it off, with SASE for a reply, and then you wait ...
Last I heard, Dark Horse wasn't doing any new A, P, or AvP for a while, and the book biz has been hit by the recession just like everybody else, but there never has been a
good time to get into writing novels, least not as long as I have been doing it. If you have something they think they can sell, you have a shot. If not, you'll have to try again.
Quote from: steveperry on Apr 04, 2009, 06:16:42 PM
Quote from: Alien3 on Apr 03, 2009, 10:35:54 AM
Hey Steve
I'm now about to read Aliens Criminal Enterprise,
I can't wait been looking forward to reading this for a while :)
Question: I've written a sci-fi, adventure, romance novel and I'm trying
to find an literacy agent or a publisher to accept my novel submission.
I believe in my work a lot but things seem to be going a bit slow at the
present moment. Is there anything you could do to help?
Or any contacts you know who would be interested in having a look at it?
I posted a topic about my novel on here a few months back. Here is the
link http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=21482.0
Thanks
It's a slow business, and no real way to hurry it up. Get online and get a list of agents who are willing to look at new writers -- or get Writers Markets and see if there are still book houses reading unagented writers. Write a short cover letter, tell them who you are -- any credits that might help -- and a little about the book. One page, max. Send it off, with SASE for a reply, and then you wait ...
Last I heard, Dark Horse wasn't doing any new A, P, or AvP for a while, and the book biz has been hit by the recession just like everybody else, but there never has been a good time to get into writing novels, least not as long as I have been doing it. If you have something they think they can sell, you have a shot. If not, you'll have to try again.
Thank you, I have sent quite a lot submissions out but I guess is sitting and waiting and sending more out. The thing about my novel is I think its a hard concept to get across, although I believe it is a fresh story which has never been told before. It is just getting that idea across to sell.
I'll start that list of agents.
Thanks a lot and keep up the good work :)
"I believe it is a fresh story which has never been told before"
Probably not. What makes it fresh, however much that might be, is that you are telling it, and you are unique. There are only three plots, and I'd be real surprised if you had come up with a story nobody has ever told before.
First piece of fiction I wrote was for an English III assignment, when I was sixteen. The story was about how aliens, bent on conquest, landed on Earth and sent a scouting party to see how tough the opposition would be. First house they came to belonged to Dracula, who was giving a party for the Wolf Man and friends.
It didn't have a title, but I could have easily called it Monsters Versus Aliens. I wrote that piece forty-five years ago ...
Hello Mr. Perry. You and your daughter are some of my favorite authors to the alien franchise. I enjoyed your whole concept so much I'm beginning my own little fan story about what occurs during Wilks's and Billie's trip to the Alien planet..
I do plan on referencing some of the major characters and having it center around Spears and the USCMC more. Every little detail I'm trying to use, just to make this something worth reading. I have the preview right here:
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=23112.0
Perhaps a little advice or feedback from the man who started it all?
Don't think he can legally read it dude.
Legally?
Why?
Mr. Perry,
Thankyou for your informative response. I find it kind ironic that in such an enormous market, Fox has consistently (and most of the time successfully) risked inexperienced and unknown folks in the directors chair, but in a much smaller market Dark Horse looks only for the most popular and experienced writers. I understand that the mediums are very different, but as I understand there are some pretty defined boundaries that would restrict and control any author whether experienced or not.
They aren't like thee and me down in LaLaLand. Larry McMurtry says that going to Hollywood is like going to a town of very powerful two-year-olds, and it's true. It's amazing sometimes that any good movies ever make it to the screen, the process is so arcane.
With an original book, it's the writer and the editor. In a tie-in, a shared universe, you have to add in the property owner.
With a movie, there are scores of people who can make it better or worse, and it only takes one or two to completely wreck it. You have producers, directors, actors, writers, film editors, composers, set designers, decorators, sound guys, and if all of them do their jobs well and the studio doesn't screw it up, maybe you get a great picture. It's a collaborative medium, and when it all goes well, the results are gold.
In Hollywood, a lot of people think the least important member of the above-the-line team is the writer.
And if the story isn't there, or it's badly-told, then you start out with two strikes against you. It's much more likely that a good script will get messed up than it is a bad script will get made better. You just can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
Fan-fic. Yeah, my lawyer won't let me read it. The reason is simple: Let's say I was writing a tie-in for DH and one of the elements in my story was the same as one of yours. You might think that I swiped it from you, and get pissed off enough to sue. (You can't really do that and expect to win, since neither of us own the property, it belongs to somebody else, so it's not yours, nor mine to fret about, we aren't the copyright holders.) But even a frivolous lawsuit takes time and money to fight, and while you might not be the guy to up and sue, there are people who believe they have some kind of ownership of a property because they wrote a story. Hey, he stole my idea!
I know people who have gotten death-threats from fans regarding such things.
If I don't read it, never saw it, then that's how I defend against such things. Lot of people come with with the same idea, happens all the time. But if I never saw yours, I can't swipe it.
Hey Mr. Perry,
would you be interested in writing a novel or comic (would you be interested in writing comics?) that focuses more on the Jockeys and the origins of the aliens and perhaps even the origins of the predators and how the three species are related? Do you have a origin theory that you would like to use in one of your works if DH allowed it?
Ok, I read in an interview and recently watched in another where you give your opinion on the intelligence of the Aliens.
What in the first four Alien films leads you to believe that Xenomorphs are "stupid" as you said in the interview?
Not sure if this question has been asked yet.
This one has been asked and answered extensively -- go back through the postings in this thread. Agree or disagree, what I said is there to be seen. As of yet, nobody has convinced me that I'm wrong, so I stand by what i said.
Mr. Perry , hello! I am so glad I can talk to you! I never can find Prey anywhere and its tragic because I would love to read it , I have read WAR though... IDK if that is your work or not. My question is , I loved how you made the Predator culture but one thing erks me a lot! You describe them as Samuri .... but you are wrong on two points.
1.) Samuri are human and Predators are aliens..... okay.
2.) Samuri DO NOT LET OTHERS INTO THEIR CLAN... this is a proven and true fact , that Machiko , I may have misspelled her name , was let in the clan because she shows the ability to kill an alien good. But your telling me that if I took a machine gun and gunned down an alien or two " broken Tusk " would be in awe of me and let me join their clan? that is nothing like SAMURI culture and not how the Predators are shown either... they are bad guys and while I loved your showing of them and the story I feel you tried to make them seem like good guys more so then bad.
All in all just curious of what you think of my posts! thanks!
Quote from: The PredBen on May 06, 2009, 08:48:20 PM
Mr. Perry , hello! I am so glad I can talk to you! I never can find Prey anywhere and its tragic because I would love to read it , I have read WAR though... IDK if that is your work or not. My question is , I loved how you made the Predator culture but one thing erks me a lot! You describe them as Samuri .... but you are wrong on two points.
1.) Samuri are human and Predators are aliens..... okay.
2.) Samuri DO NOT LET OTHERS INTO THEIR CLAN... this is a proven and true fact , that Machiko , I may have misspelled her name , was let in the clan because she shows the ability to kill an alien good. But your telling me that if I took a machine gun and gunned down an alien or two " broken Tusk " would be in awe of me and let me join their clan? that is nothing like SAMURI culture and not how the Predators are shown either... they are bad guys and while I loved your showing of them and the story I feel you tried to make them seem like good guys more so then bad.
All in all just curious of what you think of my posts! thanks!
She killed a Queen, not just 'an' Alien.
She closed a door that the Queen's head happened to be sticking through. Wow.
And FYI that happened in the comics before it happened in Prey.
oh okay... well still I respect Mr.Perry , but the books humanize aliens. I would not like an alien to visit earth and treat me like its own kind culture wise... although it would be fun to see aliens in real life...
Anyway that's it then. 8)
With all due respect to the not-samurai critique, if you read the graphic novel upon which the novel AvP: Prey is based, you'll see that a lot of what we did in the book was to novelize the comics. So the credit for much of the plot and action goes elsewhere, and I do believe I've mentioned that a time or twelve.
My daughter and I added our bits, but we didn't create the AvP concept -- talk to Chris, Randy, and Mike about that. We followed their lead.
You need to at least have read the book you are criticizing or you'll come across as an idiot. If you read War, you should have been able to look down there under the title and see the name of writer, and it's obviously not my name.
As for the culture we did create, since it a) didn't exist before and b) is in a completely fictional universe, then it can't really be "wrong." You might not like the direction in which we took it, and that's your right, but we did take it there, and since that's why they hired us.
That a culture like the Preds would have things in common with samurai doesn't strike me as the least bit unlikely, given the set-up from the original movie and subsequent expanded universe material. This was written and produced for an audiences of humans who primarily speak English. That's where you start.
I expect, having done a bit of research on samurai culture, written a book based on that outside the Aliens and Predator universe, and having been in martial arts for more than forty years, I know as much about that culture as somebody who can't spell "samurai" correctly.
Quote from: steveperry on May 09, 2009, 04:59:53 PM
With all due respect to the not-samurai critique, if you read the graphic novel upon which the novel AvP: Prey is based, you'll see that a lot of what we did in the book was to novelize the comics. So the credit for much of the plot and action goes elsewhere, and I do believe I've mentioned that a time or twelve.
My daughter and I added our bits, but we didn't create the AvP concept -- talk to Chris, Randy, and Mike about that. We followed their lead.
You need to at least have read the book you are criticizing or you'll come across as an idiot. If you read War, you should have been able to look down there under the title and see the name of writer, and it's obviously not my name.
As for the culture we did create, since it a) didn't exist before and b) is in a completely fictional universe, then it can't really be "wrong." You might not like the direction in which we took it, and that's your right, but we did take it there, and since that's why they hired us.
That a culture like the Preds would have things in common with samurai doesn't strike me as the least bit unlikely, given the set-up from the original movie and subsequent expanded universe material. This was written and produced for an audiences of humans who primarily speak English. That's where you start.
I expect, having done a bit of research on samurai culture, written a book based on that outside the Aliens and Predator universe, and having been in martial arts for more than forty years, I know as much about that culture as somebody who can't spell "samurai" correctly.
Yeah.... I couldn't for that post , I wasn't thinking and was in a rush and I am not insulting you at all , I figured out a lot of what you told me a bit to late..... Also I do like your and the graphic novel creators views on Predators more then Mr. Shirley , anyway thanks. :)
QuoteThat a culture like the Preds would have things in common with samurai doesn't strike me as the least bit unlikely, given the set-up from the original movie and subsequent expanded universe material
Wait, what?
The original movie -
both movies, heck, and even the
plot of the comic you were adapting - took their cues from tribal hunting cultures. It's right there, doing a full song-and-dance number in the audience's face. Everyone who had anything to do with the creation of them repeatedly referenced them as a source of inspiration. Even the freakin'
music of both movies takes its cues from tribal drums.
How the heck can someone take all of that information ... then decide the closest analogy is
samurai?
Quote from: SiL on May 09, 2009, 11:56:06 PM
Wait, what?
The original movie - both movies, heck, and even the plot of the comic you were adapting - took their cues from tribal hunting cultures. It's right there, doing a full song-and-dance number in the audience's face. Everyone who had anything to do with the creation of them repeatedly referenced them as a source of inspiration. Even the freakin' music of both movies takes its cues from tribal drums.
How the heck can someone take all of that information ... then decide the closest analogy is samurai?
I agree they aren't Samurai they are closer to primitive tribal peoples who got technology. The whole point was savage humanoid aliens who have high technology to use to do their tribal rituals i.e. hunting for sport. They are never once referenced as Samurai , they do not do marital arts. The only non - tribal based thing they do is have a mild code of honor. They use spears and wristblades and non samurai weapons. Even Peter Briggs who gave them in honor system in his script for AVP , has a character reference them as " Bushmen " they also do not have armor. I liked your novels , don't get me wrong ,but they aren't Samurai.
Hunting tribes didn't really hunt for sport - You could brag if you killed the big'un, but you didn't go out just to get a trophy.
Before the tribal aspects were added they weren't even that - They were the equivalent of a human going on a big game hunt. For all we knew they could've all sat around the office the rest of the week grumbling about their boss, then on the weekend, hey-hey, time to hunt some dangerous game.
And then "Hey, I know. Samurai."
correct. ;D
Sports, we are all tribal as humans, that's how the apes roll so it's at the basis of everything in our culture, including our stories. Sliding up the scale a hair, things branched, that would include the samurai. I like that direction, so I went there.
Thing is, I got to to decide and you didn't. Maybe it would have been better your way -- I'm sure you think so -- but I'm happy with what I wrote. And the books sold well enough so a lot of other folks seemed to be okay with the notion.
Way it goes. Those who can, do. Those who can't, carp about it.
QuoteThing is, I got to to decide and you didn't.
That's a terrible, terrible justification for anything. A
valid one, in this instance, but still terrible.
QuoteMaybe it would have been better your way
Could easily be worse. But at least it'd be
consistent.
QuoteThose who can, do. Those who can't, carp about it.
That doesn't really apply to this situation. You still did it. Even if we could do it we'd still carp, cos it's still there.
That being said, I don't mind the Yautja stuff until people start holding it up and saying "This is how it is". Which you can't be blamed for.
Actually, it's a time-honored response by writers to critics: Where were you when the page was blank? Because, for some of us, it is better to be the world's worst artist than the world's best critic. I wouldn't particularly care to be the world's worst artist, but even so? that would be better. Give a critic a blank page, he's got nothing.
By offering up anything for public perusal, a writer quickly learns that everybody is allowed to have and express an opinion. Fine. Part of the game. But a writer also learns, sometimes the hard way, not to get too upset about those. Nor to pay more attention to them than they are due. As in many things, one must consider the source.
I'm not upset about it. Just now and then, I will take the gloves off and call it like I see it.
It's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback. (And I don't know if your version would have been consistent -- nor do you -- because you didn't write it. And if you had, you would have had to allow the editor and owner of the properly fiddle with it if they chose to do so, and what showed up on the racks might not have been completely your doing.
And the do/carp comment stands -- if you could write and sell this kind of stuff, I expect you'd have more of a feeling about what it takes to do so, and probably -- at least I hope it would be the case -- you'd be a little less likely to pop off, since you'd understand what it takes to start with a ream of blank paper and end up with a novel that gets published and read by a lot of folks -- many of whom are more than happy to tell you how you could have done it better.
But -- maybe not.
Tell you what, after you sell a couple novels and hear what gets said about 'em, come back and let's revisit the discussion. Until then, you need to understand that your opinion is primarily important to you and not really very much so to me.
I for one would like to thank you Steve for taking the time out of your day to respond to the questions people here ask.
Quote from: steveperry on May 12, 2009, 04:55:22 AM
Where were you when the page was blank?
Playing in a sand box.
QuoteI wouldn't particularly care to be the world's worst artist, but even so? that would be better. Give a critic a blank page, he's got nothing.
Give the critic a blank page and he's got a thousand words on why the world's worst artist is the world's worst artist.
QuoteTell you what, after you sell a couple novels and hear what gets said about 'em, come back and let's revisit the discussion.
...You're going for the "I'd like to see
you try doing this" argument?
You don't need to try making a building to know that if someone makes a building that collapses under its own weight, they suck at making a building. You don't need to have tried committing genocide or waging war across half the globe to say Hitler was an asshole.
Just because it's a difficult job to get into and you got in the position to have your say expressed to the masses doesn't mean people have to bend over and take it; doesn't mean that it's
good; and certainly doesn't mean it's above criticism by those who aren't in the same profession. It just means yours is the opinion that got heard.
QuoteUntil then, you need to understand that your opinion is primarily important to you and not really very much so to me.
I never assumed or acted like my opinion was important to you. You could ignore every single thing I've said and I really wouldn't care.
But I'd still say it, because even if I'm not a published author (or someone who's even
tried to become a published author), that doesn't invalidate my opinion when I say "Steve Perry did a shonky job with his treatment of the Predators".
And there you are, still in the sandbox, and still flinging the stuff hither and yon.
You don't have to agree with anything I've written, or anything I've said about it. But if you are going to presume to offer an opinion, in order for it to have any weight, then there needs to be some substance to it. Other than, "Well, that's what I think!" I don't hear it. There's nothing wrong with being a fanboy -- we're all fanboys here; well, maybe even a couple of fangirls -- but your comments presume an acceptance of expertise about what you have to say -- at least that's how they come across to where I sit -- and there is no evidence of that being true.
No, you don't have to be a professional pianist to hear it when the guy playing a concert hits a clunker. But if you are going to offer him lessons in how he could have played the concert better, chances are pretty good he's not going to pay a lot of attention to you unless you can demonstrate some reason why he should. If you are a better player, even a peer, he might be willing to do that. If you are just some guy who listens to music? Who are you to say?
"I didn't like your interpretation of Rachmanianoff's Prelude in C-sharp Minor." Fine, you can say that. But if you can't play it, why on Earth would anybody listen to your notion on how best to do it? Talking the talk is not the same as walking the walk.
You miss my point entirely about the critic and the blank page, which isn't a surprise. A critic needs somebody to have written something -- good or bad -- in order to have anything to say. Give him the paper and say, give me a thousand words, his question is "On who?" Critics are remoras -- no shark? no ride, no food.
Writing fiction is, at best, a sketchy kind of communication. All you have is words, and that limits you. Those of us who do it for a living, least all those I know, try constantly to improve, to find the right word or phrase, to construct out stories in ways that make them accessible to as many people as we can.
On our side of the table, we have a different view of what we do, and how, and why. Now and then somebody from across the table will offer something that rings a bell, that makes sense, and when that happens, every writer I know will nod and accept it, and use the advice. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. But what you have to say, and how you say it? Not coming across. Your opinion of your opinion is too high -- it gets in the way. What comes across is "I know better!"
Don't see it. No evidence. And the best -- and only real -- way to prove it is to show me. When you can do that, then you have something. Otherwise, no.
Quote from: steveperry on May 12, 2009, 05:24:43 PM
but your comments presume an acceptance of expertise about what you have to say -- at least that's how they come across to where I sit -- and there is no evidence of that being true.
Then they're coming across wrong.
I don't presume any expertise - Just that by watching the films, and reading the comic, it's pretty clear that everyone was going for tribal hunters, not samurai. That's not an opinion, either. That's just repeating what the people who made the movies and comics said in interviews and the like.
From there the feeling is that turning them into samurai wasn't the most seemingly logical (for want of a better term) progression given what everyone had said. One doesn't have to be a published author to state this, or for it to be a valid statement. When everyone says "A!", and then another person comes along and says "B!", obviously some eyebrows are going to be raised.
Whether or not "B" is better or worse or just as good is entirely besides the point. All I was ever saying was that "B" was an odd point to arrive at.
As to whether it
should have been done differently, no, and I never said that, and I never presumed to tell you how it
should have been done.
the whole samurai thing is no more inconsistent with the original movies than the idea of predators as teachers of civilisation and pyramid building
neither idea is directly contradictory but they certainly don't fit the established spirit of the original
Quote from: happypred on May 12, 2009, 10:48:37 PM
neither idea is directly contradictory but they certainly don't fit the established spirit of the original
I think that sums up the sentiment nicely.
Steve,
Just thought I would let you know that I'm about 50 pages away from finishing "Turnabout" and I love it! Sloane and Regal are both awesome characters! Great job!
Thanks for taking the time out of your busy life to post your thoughts and advice here!
Mr.Perry I would like you to know that I am done writing an AVP script and would like to ask you how long a script should be to fill say 1hr40 minutes? ( I know you do not write scripts but still I would like your opionon because I plan to send this to fox. I am also writing a second script now , when I finish it I do not know.
Thanks mr. Perry and I feel sorry for arguing with you , because as you say , at least for now , you are a professional writing and I am not. ;D
yeah , I am connection two posts. :o.)
Quote from: The PredBen on May 13, 2009, 04:40:26 PM
Mr.Perry I would like you to know that I am done writing an AVP script and would like to ask you how long a script should be to fill say 1hr40 minutes? ( I know you do not write scripts but still I would like your opionon because I plan to send this to fox. I am also writing a second script now , when I finish it I do not know.
Thanks mr. Perry and I feel sorry for arguing with you , because as you say , at least for now , you are a professional writing and I am not. ;D
I think 1 page = 1 minute in terms of scripts
thank you very much. :).
Quote from: Dachande on May 13, 2009, 05:41:47 PM
I think 1 page = 1 minute in terms of scripts
Dachande's rule of thumb is what people usually cite, and it is pretty close. Action plays faster, dialog slower. (Not in animation, which is faster overall, but in live-action.) From a practical standpoint, if your script runs more than a hundred and ten or -fifteen pages, it's probably too long. The ideal commercial movie length is 105 minutes, and that based on getting people into and out of the theater with time to get popcorn and all, in a two-hour slot. Easier to sell a shorter script, one that long scares readers. If you are doing the next Star Trek or have a bunch of credits, it's different.
I don't care if people argue with me. I didn't come here to get my ass kissed -- if you don't agree, that's your right -- call it like you see and so will I. I just get a little amused when it sounds as if somebody is trying to give me writing lessons and I don't see that they have the wherewithal to do so.
Opinions, they say, are like assholes -- we all have them, and most of them stink ...
Hey, everyone... Dad. I've come 'cause you sent me a thing saying I had a message, which, of course, I can't find. When I clicked on the link, it said I have no messages. Instead I find you going toe to toe with yet another critic--nice job, by the way. I crumple under criticism, myself, which is why I rarely come to these sites. Well, usually...
So, I'm asking Steve Perry--what do I click? ;D
xox
Quote from: steveperry on May 13, 2009, 08:48:01 PM
Dachande's rule of thumb is what people usually cite, and it is pretty close. Action plays faster, dialog slower. (Not in animation, which is faster overall, but in live-action.) From a practical standpoint, if your script runs more than a hundred and ten or -fifteen pages, it's probably too long. The ideal commercial movie length is 105 minutes, and that based on getting people into and out of the theater with time to get popcorn and all, in a two-hour slot. Easier to sell a shorter script, one that long scares readers. If you are doing the next Star Trek or have a bunch of credits, it's different.
I don't care if people argue with me. I didn't come here to get my ass kissed -- if you don't agree, that's your right -- call it like you see and so will I. I just get a little amused when it sounds as if somebody is trying to give me writing lessons and I don't see that they have the wherewithal to do so.
Opinions, they say, are like assholes -- we all have them, and most of them stink ...
True , and thanks my script was just 37 pages long , so it must equal about 39 minutes , do to my dialogue , thanks!
Screwed up ... yeah though thanks. :P
Welcome, Stephani. My first question is...
Your real name? I can never remember.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on May 14, 2009, 09:54:44 PM
Welcome, Stephani. My first question is...
Your real name? I can never remember.
you don't , either do I , welcome though to the avd site of the world , where everything is almost all avp and the avp fans ... are avp fans.
I can never remember which is her authors name (S.D or Stephani?) or which is her actual name.
that's nice ... LOL.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on May 14, 2009, 10:22:55 PM
I can never remember which is her authors name (S.D or Stephani?) or which is her actual name.
All the books I have say she is "SD Perry", which, if I'm not mistaken, is Stephani Danielle Perry. ;)
She goes by "Danelle," which is pronounced "Dan-yelle." Needs a tilde over the "n."
Welcome Danelle.
It would be great if you could stay around and answer some questions if you're not too busy. And thank you for being a part and adding to the great Aliens/predator franchise.
1. Whats it like working with your dad?
2. Whats your favourite Aliens/Predator film and why?
3. Out of the books you've written/co-written - do you have a favourite?
4. Which kind of scenes do you find are the most difficult to write?
5. Which kind of scenes do you find the easiest to write?
I hope you can stay and hang around.
Quote from: stephen on May 15, 2009, 12:10:42 AM
Welcome Danelle.
It would be great if you could stay around and answer some questions if you're not too busy. And thank you for being a part and adding to the great Aliens/predator franchise.
Thank you! I'll happily answer a couple of questions, but since this is my dad's board, I'll likely just lurk around occasionally. By the by, my friends and family call me Danelle, and I write under S.D., except for the first couple of books. Stephani Danelle Perry is my full name.
1. Whats it like working with your dad?
Daunting at first, but primarily awesome. I think he's an excellent writer, and he's always treated me/my work respectfully.
2. Whats your favourite Aliens/Predator film and why?
Hmm... Having read most of the posts here, I'm hesitant to respond without a bunch of disclaimers. Obviously, it's a matter of personal taste. That said, you should know that I'm a horror fan, big time. So, Alien, for sheer creepiness.
3. Out of the books you've written/co-written - do you have a favourite?
A favorite? I dunno... Honestly, I really liked working on Criminal Enterprise, although I've taken some flack for using the aliens as guard dogs, rather than major "characters". I concede the point, but still thought the story was good. I liked AvP War... and the graphic novel for AvP Prey was top-notch. It's always more fun to adapt something well-written.
4. Which kind of scenes do you find are the most difficult to write?
Never thought about it. The first chapter of anything, I suppose, since I have an obnoxious, natural tendency towards exposition.
5. Which kind of scenes do you find the easiest to write?
The ones I like. That sounds dumb, maybe, but there you go--I like scary scenes, I like action and dialogue 'cause it fills up pages quickly.
I hope you can stay and hang around.
Thank you again!
Dear SDP,
Welcome to AvPGalaxy.net, I really hope that you enjoy your stay here!
I just wanted to say thank you and Steve both for writing AvP: Prey and AvP: War, as I believe that both had given me many years of excellent reading and something to occupy my time with. Both are some of the best books which I hold very dear to me since childhood when I started reading it around the summer of 2001.
I really loved the concept of the Yautja culture which you and your father, Steve, have developed and seeing the concept of the warrior culture used in the Alien vs Predator films definately made me happy.
I also want to say thank you for both giving me the inspiration to create my own Yautja characters based on the culture which you have developed in your novels.
Again, thank you for the good years of reading and introducing me to such a admirable and honorable warrior race.
-Rakai'Thwei
I'd like to say thanks to SDP for writing Labyrinth and Berserker, my favourite novels of the series. Labyrinth does a great job of adding to an already amazing comic and the Berserker novel is much better than the comic itself.
Hi Steve,
hi Stephani,
I reviewed your first book of AvP here in germany and I were very impressed. It is not the first work read from your Pen. So Shadows of the Empire is still one of the greatest extendet SW Stories, you adapted the greatest Alien Trilogy from Dark Horse (Here is was very faszinated. I have written the Second Book first and than the Comic Book. And everything I saw was, thx to the great Artist Ben Beauvais, exactly that I thougt when I read that Book.) Im a big Fan of that Franchese and this Book was a very good adaption of the greatest Comic Crossover ever.
Here my questions:
All Books from you and your Daughter of that franchese are adaptions of the Dark Horse Comics. Did you thaught about an own story? The writing about the Aliens and Predators are so great, I think you are the chosen one, to expand this Universe (https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.paninicomics.de%2Fforum%2Fwcf%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Fthumbsup.png&hash=33004f08df1175eb40e0f6f3f315c4c2427e5e67)
Ok this question was answered by these two Pics:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.darkhorse.com%2Fcovers%2F100%2F14%2F14838.jpg&hash=f8afc6bab34666687ffedcdea63c153f78cd65a2) (https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.darkhorse.com%2Fcovers%2F100%2F14%2F14935.jpg&hash=170216dc3d681603ce886e920f0f82fe9d0ec7c6)
That is very cruel, the Aliens and Predator Books from Dark Horse were never releazed in germany till now. I think I have to read them in your words, but my english is not very good. But Im trying hard :-\
What are you think about the AVP Movie by Paul Anderson. I saw it again, yesterday and must say, Anderson used lots of Elemts from the Dark Horse Comic.
And my 3rd question. Im a Artist and I work on my own comic book (http://'http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=24013.0'). It is a direct sequel to Andersons AVP Movie. It is a 10 Year later Expedition to Mars. Where the big Predator Mothership crashed. Wayland Yutani are fusioned and got that signal from the Predship and Alexa Woods is one of the crew members.
What you want to have in a possible direct Sequel to Andersons AVP? can you give me a little idea? Just to say, "this was one idea from from the great writer Steve Perry" (https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.paninicomics.de%2Fforum%2Fwcf%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Fwhistling.png&hash=a80a3f0919bc11ef02062ea1775fc49c5cf04d8a)
Thank you (https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.paninicomics.de%2Fforum%2Fwcf%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Fhi.gif&hash=dae255cd777c72dfbb5e48220f8b8b35aeba34fb)
and greatings from germany,
Michael
Quote from: Darkness on May 07, 2007, 09:46:00 PM
Hmm, I pronounce as Yaut-Ya or even Yat-Ya.
I'm more than likely wrong, I pronoucne it Yat-Ja or Yaut-Ja.
Quote from: Hell-Scorpion on Jun 22, 2009, 10:52:31 PM
Quote from: Darkness on May 07, 2007, 09:46:00 PM
Hmm, I pronounce as Yaut-Ya or even Yat-Ya.
I'm more than likely wrong, I pronoucne it Yat-Ja or Yaut-Ja.
Yaut-Jasame
I pronounced it Yut Ja.
Quote from: sdp on May 15, 2009, 08:55:25 PM
Quote from: stephen on May 15, 2009, 12:10:42 AM
Welcome Danelle.
It would be great if you could stay around and answer some questions if you're not too busy. And thank you for being a part and adding to the great Aliens/predator franchise.
Thank you! I'll happily answer a couple of questions, but since this is my dad's board, I'll likely just lurk around occasionally. By the by, my friends and family call me Danelle, and I write under S.D., except for the first couple of books. Stephani Danelle Perry is my full name.
1. Whats it like working with your dad?
Daunting at first, but primarily awesome. I think he's an excellent writer, and he's always treated me/my work respectfully.
2. Whats your favourite Aliens/Predator film and why?
Hmm... Having read most of the posts here, I'm hesitant to respond without a bunch of disclaimers. Obviously, it's a matter of personal taste. That said, you should know that I'm a horror fan, big time. So, Alien, for sheer creepiness.
3. Out of the books you've written/co-written - do you have a favourite?
A favorite? I dunno... Honestly, I really liked working on Criminal Enterprise, although I've taken some flack for using the aliens as guard dogs, rather than major "characters". I concede the point, but still thought the story was good. I liked AvP War... and the graphic novel for AvP Prey was top-notch. It's always more fun to adapt something well-written.
4. Which kind of scenes do you find are the most difficult to write?
Never thought about it. The first chapter of anything, I suppose, since I have an obnoxious, natural tendency towards exposition.
5. Which kind of scenes do you find the easiest to write?
The ones I like. That sounds dumb, maybe, but there you go--I like scary scenes, I like action and dialogue 'cause it fills up pages quickly.
I hope you can stay and hang around.
Thank you again!
Y hello thar.
Steve, any news on future novels yet?
Far as I know, no new A, P, or AvP novels currently being let at DH at the moment. I could be wrong.
Fair enough. You plan on checking out the new A/v/P comics?
It'll be interesting to see if DH tries to restart an AVP novel line in tune with the AVP comic and game releases next year.
It would be sweet if Fox/DH asked Steve to write the "Predators" movie-novel or maybe a novel, related to "Predators", in someway.
Please forgive me, if this was already asked in previous posts, here:
Steve, are you excited about "Predators"? What are your thoughts? Did you read the first draft Rodriguez wrote? I know the script is being re-written by Alex and Michael, so there could be some MAJOR changes.
Just offhand and speaking out of turn, I don't know from what I've heard so far about the film that I would want Mr. Perry writing the novelization. He did a great job actually giving the predator character some depth, making him more than just a slasher villain with high-tech weaponry, but sadly, it seems Rodriguez is really wanting to go with the slasher concept for this film. So I'd much rather see Mr. Perry write something non-Predators, just because I don't like the 'new' concept.
That being said, though, if somehow the Preds in the new film actually end up being somewhat three-dimensional, than I can't think of a better writer for the job.
Again, just off-the-cuff and I apologize for speaking out of turn since the question was directed at Mr. Perry.
Quote from: Mr. Domino on Jul 22, 2009, 02:56:16 PM
Just offhand and speaking out of turn, I don't know from what I've heard so far about the film that I would want Mr. Perry writing the novelization. He did a great job actually giving the predator character some depth, making him more than just a slasher villain with high-tech weaponry, but sadly, it seems Rodriguez is really wanting to go with the slasher concept for this film. So I'd much rather see Mr. Perry write something non-Predators, just because I don't like the 'new' concept.
I so agree 100% with you Mr. Domino.
-Rakai'Thwei
mannnnnnnnn. i just read like 30 pages and i think you guys are being way to harsh( even corporal hicks) . Surely he has a different opinion on the sake of the whole alien franchise and i disagree with a lot of his ideas but that doesnt mean we should try to change his opinion either. Oh well :-\
Welcome to the internet. Every one is convinced that their opinion is the only one that matters, and are too immature to a) think about what they're saying every once in a while, or b) acknowledge the validity of an opposing viewpoint.
Now, that being said, that doesn't describe everyone here. Just, you know, most people.
Quote from: Mr. Domino on Jul 22, 2009, 02:56:16 PM
Just offhand and speaking out of turn, I don't know from what I've heard so far about the film that I would want Mr. Perry writing the novelization. He did a great job actually giving the predator character some depth, making him more than just a slasher villain with high-tech weaponry, but sadly, it seems Rodriguez is really wanting to go with the slasher concept for this film. So I'd much rather see Mr. Perry write something non-Predators, just because I don't like the 'new' concept.
That being said, though, if somehow the Preds in the new film actually end up being somewhat three-dimensional, than I can't think of a better writer for the job.
Again, just off-the-cuff and I apologize for speaking out of turn since the question was directed at Mr. Perry.
I haven't read the script, and haven't heard much about it. Nobody has contacted me regarding the tie-in, so chances are there are people here who know more about it than I do. Would I be interested in doing a novelization? If it was a good script and I could run with it? Sure.
I won't hold my breath waiting for the phone to ring, though ...
Mr. Perry, I was wondering if you'd be interested in doing a "guest audio commentary" for a video series I create - the videos are usually 10-15 minutes long and you'd just talk about pretty much whatever you felt like (hopefully as it related to what was happening on-screen :p).
If you're not interested or you don't think you'd have time for it, that's okay. I just figured that it couldn't hurt to ask, right? :)
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 01, 2007, 11:05:48 PM
Think it comes from the fact that your Alien novels are old. And with that age comes the blandness in your writing. Looking back, Earth Hive isn't a very inspired or well written novel compared to some of the new ones. Same goes for most of the old A/v/P novels. You're best work in said franchise were the team ups with Stephani or Diane, whatever she's going by these days?
I'm looking forward to reading Turnabout to see how you've developed.
Okay, this was too much, can't keep my mouth shut. I didn't even bother to read the other 38 pages of posts.
This is unbelievable, between you, Corporal Hicks, and SiL. You are the kinds of fans that make professional creators as well as other, normal, fans, tear their hair out. Anyone who reads this crap can see why most creators that get work with the Aliens and Predator franchises either never talk to anyone and turn off their phones, or try and make themselves available to fans and end up handling way more stress than they need.
I'm a big fan, a large and grotesquely huge fan, of both properties, but seriously, you guys are embarrassing. Mr. Perry comes on here, a busy professional that is way cooler than most of you ever will be, to talk to fans, and not only does SiL get into random, pointless, and absurdly stupid pissing contests about his idiotic opinions, then the MODERATOR comes on and calls Mr. Perry's writing bland and uninspired. Someone please tell me I read that wrong. You're fired, dude.
I've never seen anything like this, if he sticks around, I think he deserves an apology from this backwards inbred fanbase. I wouldn't give you morons the time of day. :D
If you want a really fun read, check out the argument "Carnal Calligraphy" and I had around page 30 or something like that, it was essentially about the same thing. Carnal Calligraphy posted about how Mr. Perry "owed" the fans certain things or some nonsense, I and I replied with "you're out of your goddamn mind", and we went back and forth on it for several pages.
Quote from: RagingDragon on Sep 23, 2009, 07:10:40 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 01, 2007, 11:05:48 PM
Think it comes from the fact that your Alien novels are old. And with that age comes the blandness in your writing. Looking back, Earth Hive isn't a very inspired or well written novel compared to some of the new ones. Same goes for most of the old A/v/P novels. You're best work in said franchise were the team ups with Stephani or Diane, whatever she's going by these days?
I'm looking forward to reading Turnabout to see how you've developed.
Okay, this was too much, can't keep my mouth shut. I didn't even bother to read the other 38 pages of posts.
This is unbelievable, between you, Corporal Hicks, and SiL. You are the kinds of fans that make professional creators as well as other, normal, fans, tear their hair out. Anyone who reads this crap can see why most creators that get work with the Aliens and Predator franchises either never talk to anyone and turn off their phones, or try and make themselves available to fans and end up handling way more stress than they need.
I'm a big fan, a large and grotesquely huge fan, of both properties, but seriously, you guys are embarrassing. Mr. Perry comes on here, a busy professional that is way cooler than most of you ever will be, to talk to fans, and not only does SiL get into random, pointless, and absurdly stupid pissing contests about his idiotic opinions, then the MODERATOR comes on and calls Mr. Perry's writing bland and uninspired. Someone please tell me I read that wrong. You're fired, dude.
I've never seen anything like this, if he sticks around, I think he deserves an apology from this backwards inbred fanbase. I wouldn't give you morons the time of day. :D
I agree with you to a certain extent since I think it's rude to attack Steve Perry like this... I mean, it's not like you get the chance to "talk" to people related to the three different franchises (Alien, Predator and AVP) every day; we should be thankful and we should consider ourselves honored that novelists, cartoonists, directors etc. actually take their time to "talk" to us.
But on the other hand you (RagingDragon) should watch your mouth as well since you're basically sucking up to Mr. Perry and call everyone, who doesn't feel the same way you do about your idol, "backward inbred" morons among other things.
Steve Perry writes
Alien vs. Predator novels, not just Predator novels. I'm not saying that he's obligated to treat the Aliens with the same respect as the Predators since he openly stated that he doesn't care (as) much about the Aliens (as much as he does about the Preds)... but by portraying the Aliens as cannon fodder space ants and nothing more than that, he should be prepared and not surprised at all that us Alien fans will protest about it. There's nothing weird about that. He knows that the Alien part of the AVP franchise has a huge fan-base - fan-base that is tired of watching their favorite monster being treated like crap.
QuoteBut on the other hand you (RagingDragon) should watch your mouth as well since you're basically sucking up to Mr. Perry and call everyone, who doesn't feel the same way you do about your idol, "backward inbred" morons among other things.
Well it isn't exactly "sucking up", because I'd agree with his assessment no matter what professional personality was taking the time to come here and answer questions. Even if it were the Brothers Strause, who I'm sure don't have a lot of fans, I think they deserve respect for taking time to come here and answer questions.
I think RagingDragon's point is that even if you don't agree with what the author has to say, they still deserve to have their opinion respected. Attacking or insulting them accomplishes nothing other than spoil the party for the people who
do want to ask questions.
Hell, I don't agree with Mr. Perry's opinions on everything, but they're
his opinions and I can respect that.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 23, 2009, 10:13:06 PM
Well it isn't exactly "sucking up", because I'd agree with his assessment no matter what professional personality was taking the time to come here and answer questions. Even if it were the Brothers Strause, who I'm sure don't have a lot of fans, I think they deserve respect for taking time to come here and answer questions.
I think RagingDragon's point is that even if you don't agree with what the author has to say, they still deserve to have their opinion respected. Attacking or insulting them accomplishes nothing other than spoil the party for the people who do want to ask questions.
Hell, I don't agree with Mr. Perry's opinions on everything, but they're his opinions and I can respect that.
Which I totally agree with. But - and a big BUT indeed, Steve Perry is writing novels that are both about Aliens and Predators, and, as I said, both franchises/creatures have huge fan-bases. This means that he should accept the fact that people will criticize his way of dealing with the Aliens. The problem is when the fans attack him on his own forum thread, because that's pretty immature to say the least... and it is just as immature of Steve Perry's fans to counter-attack the Aliens fans like that. Just saying.
I see where you're coming from, but there's a difference between "criticism" and "attacking". Like, there are people in this thread who have disagreed with Steve Perry's books, but they did it in a level-headed manner that wasn't attacking him. They were just expressing their opinion, and there's nothing wrong with that.
As far as myself being immature to "counter-attack," I would probably use the word "reaction." I think my reaction was too measured, and in hindsight would cuss and flip out even more, as I think it's well overdue and would make me feel even better.
Sucking up to Mr. Perry? I've actually never considered myself a "Steve Perry Fan." I'm an Aliens/Predator fan, also Star Wars, and Steve does great work for both. I think he is a talented writer, and respect his success, but you make it out like I rushed to his defense while waving the Steve Perry Fan Club banner (which is also changing the subject.) Please, I'm sick, very very sick of reading the crap that certain of the fans have to spew out. It happens way too often, and makes the rest of us look like idiots. They should not only expect reactions from people who don't appreciate their rude and argumentative comments, they also deserve them.
There is a clear difference between stating your opinion and being an asshole. It's not hard to realize, and the asshole line was crossed a long time ago. I can hurl insults at the fanbase because I am, in fact, a fan, and I don't want to identify with people who don't know when they are being assholes.
I actually love it, because "fans" can say whatever they want, because they have some divine right as fans. When the tables are turned, however, and someone tells them to shut the hell up, they run screaming. Even worse, and why I was even more pissed off, is that the moderator, after the fact, instead of "moderating," decides it's apparently a beautiful time to inform Mr. Perry about how bland his writing is, and how excited he is to see if he's "transformed." I laughed out loud, you've lost your f**king mind?
If anyone would like a crash course in how to have a reasonable social interaction with another human being, let me know. It will shine some light in your dark, mountain-dew-and-tacquitos-smelling parents basement where you live.
If the shoe fits, if not, please, enjoy the rest of the forum.
And thanks, Xenomrph, for the comments, I am excited to go read your exchange! :D
Quote from: RagingDragon on Sep 23, 2009, 11:11:27 PM
If the shoe fits, if not, please, enjoy the rest of the forum.
You are absolutely right about that, but still - Steve Perry is writing
Alien vs. Predator novels, and he even admitted that he cares way more about the Predators and that he doesn't think that the Aliens are that big of a deal really, which is pretty damn provocative and Steve Perry should know that. With that said I'm not defending the childish behavior of some of the Alien fans here - on the contrary! I also think it's a pity and quite embarrassing that people lash out at Steve Perry on his own thread here on the forums. If they want to bash him they can do it elsewhere but not here.
Oh, and I'm sorry if I offended you *
not being sarcastic*.
I've had what alcoholics call a moment of clarity. I would rather new people like me come into this forum and see interesting discussions with Steve Perry, not read other's rude remarks and my hostile and merciless reaction to them.
This is in no way an apology, I've just said my 2 cents worth. I hope this crap doesn't happen again so we can all have a nice forum to visit. I'm a rather nice fellow, and I hate doing this, but justice must prevail.
Now I have to remember the questions I wanted to ask before I became uncontrollably enraged...
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Sep 23, 2009, 11:31:05 PM
You are absolutely right about that, but still - Steve Perry is writing Alien vs. Predator novels, and he even admitted that he cares way more about the Predators and that he doesn't think that the Aliens are that big of a deal really, which is pretty damn provocative and Steve Perry should know that. With that said I'm not defending the childish behavior of some of the Alien fans here - on the contrary! I also think it's a pity and quite embarrassing that people lash out at Steve Perry on his own thread here on the forums. If they want to bash him they can do it elsewhere but not here.
Oh, and I'm sorry if I offended you *not being sarcastic*.
And this.. this is a good discussion. The opportunity to talk about this is excellent, and I understand. You didn't offend me, wasn't talking about you :).
Have a nice day.
Perry has tough skin. And karate.
Quote from: RagingDragon on Sep 23, 2009, 11:37:52 PM
And this.. this is a good discussion. The opportunity to talk about this is excellent, and I understand. You didn't offend me, wasn't talking about you :).
Have a nice day.
Indeed! I'm looking forward to see more of your posts!
Welcome to the forums!
the main reason corporal hicks some times makes mistakes in the forum is not because he is evil, but i think it has to do with his maturity. he is still young and he needs a lot more to learn how to treat other people. Thats just my two cents.
hope i dont get banned for this though :D
Nobodies perfect. Even I managed to post an inflammatory remark against a visiting artist once - and I wasn't even trying! This being the anonymous interwebs, you just have to take the good with the bad and hope the artists can do the same.
Quote from: xenomorph36 on Sep 24, 2009, 10:54:49 PM
the main reason corporal hicks some times makes mistakes in the forum is not because he is evil, but i think it has to do with his maturity. he is still young and he needs a lot more to learn how to treat other people. Thats just my two cents.
hope i dont get banned for this though :D
Point out another instance for me. I wasn't attacking him. It was criticism. And it applies to a lot of old books. But then look at my review of his Turnabout. Which I raved about. It was hardly attacking.
It's hardly much different from xeno's dig at me claiming me to be immature. That's offensive. Yet posted in a critical matter. I wouldn't give it much credence but that's his opinion, he's entitled to it.
There's a very fine line between criticism and an attack, and the post Xeno was referring to skirted it rather questionably.
Starting off a rebuttal with 'show me another instance' is not exactly the most convincing reason that what you said was not what it was accused of being, but if you're really looking for another 'instance', I don't feel like you handled the situation that arose with Zach Howard very well. Of course I'm biased concerning that 'instance', but you made me out to be the villain to try and get him to come back when he had already insulted everyone on these forums.
In content, there was not much difference between your 'criticism' of Mr. Perry and Xeno's 'criticism' of you, but frankly, Xeno was able to spit his two cents out much more diplomatically, and I think that the fact that you find such a simple statement offensive in my book only concretes what Xeno said.
People toss around "Xeno" and I keep thinking they're referring to me, because "xenomorph36" doesn't have a capital X in his name. :p
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 25, 2009, 03:13:13 PM
People toss around "Xeno" and I keep thinking they're referring to me, because "xenomorph36" doesn't have a capital X in his name. :p
IT'S ALL UR FOLT!!!!11!!11 :D
In that instance you both very over-reacted IMHO - sure, I didn't balance it very properly. And also, my original post was over 2 years ago. People and opinions change. I'll take the chance now to appologize. But like I said, I rave about Perry's Turnabout and I really enjoy Prey, Nightmare Asylum and etc.
Well, I still don't understand how I overreacted in that situation, but this isn't the place for that discussion.
...I still need to find a copy of Turnabout...
Question for Mr. Perry here, and I browsed through this thread to make sure that this question hasn't been asked already but, anyway--
For amature and aspiring writers out there who struggling with a means to find a source of inspiration to overcome their writer's block, what advice do you have to help them overcome such situations? Have you ever been conflicted with writer's block and if you have, what did you do to break through it?
-Rakai'Thwei
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 25, 2009, 05:49:27 PM
In that instance you both very over-reacted IMHO - sure, I didn't balance it very properly. And also, my original post was over 2 years ago. People and opinions change. I'll take the chance now to appologize. But like I said, I rave about Perry's Turnabout and I really enjoy Prey, Nightmare Asylum and etc.
actually you have a point. I didnt realize your post was 2 years old. I myself isnt old either (only 23) . I use to be a lot more immature 2 years ago (looking back at my previous posts) . People grow and so do we. :)
I've said my piece, I know those comments were a long time ago. It's hard to keep in mind; I just registered on these forums so for me, I read them 2 days ago.
It's not what you say, but how you say it, and there really isn't a "how you say it" with text, so you have to be careful what you say if being respectful is important. Even saying "I feel that" before you insult someone will more-or-less take the sting off of it. The comments were just thrown out there like they were quantifiable scientific fact imparted on us mortals from god. Silly.
And if you want to point the finger at me, please do. I fully acknowledge that I was insulting, angry, and vengeful. I had purpose, but I wouldn't lash out like that for no good reason, much less at someone who I should respect as knowing more than me about the topic up for discussion.
It's all the intricacies of debate, which used to be important. Sadly, not so much anymore. Go figure, but you learn and you go on.
I hope Steve Perry comes back! I have a question! :)
Like I said, my original post was over 2 years ago. People change. And so has my own understanding of the english language and the way in which I wield my words. If I'm being completely honest, I have no idea why I said such a thing. But that's in the past.
I think everyone should have a coke and a smile ;D
Been a while since I had time to drop round ...
A generic post, not aimed at anybody in particular, but to some basic issues:
While I appreciate those of you who stick up for me -- or for the quaint concepts that sometimes get lost on the internet -- civility and polite discourse, I'm a big boy and comfortable with my skills when it comes to taking care of myself.
A lot of what gets put forth over the anonymous net with people hiding behind netnoms would never get said if it had to be delivered face-to-face. Easy to be brave when nobody knows who you are. Remember that scene where Jay and Silent Bob hunt down their internet critics and kick their asses ... ? I loved that.
We all have opinions and we are allowed to hold them. It's easier to convince folks in a debate if you take the time to offer your views clearly and with a modicum of open-mindedness -- if you kick in the door start name-calling, that pretty much kills any chance of reasonable debate, least in my view it does.
Oh, look. It's another asshole. Yawn.
Debate has rules, and can be useful in giving folks information that might sway them this way or that; pointing your finger and saying "You suk!" (and spelling it wrong) isn't going to impress anybody with your intelligence or wit, or how your mama raised you.
I hear that, I turn the power-off knob. I'm not listening any more. Why would I? Life is too short.
What I think about the xenomorphs, the preds, or the combinations thereof is what I think. If you disagree, surely you are allowed to say so. I've probably said that ten times here. But if you want to convince me that you are right and I'm not, the burden of proof is on you. That's how it works. And it does seem as if some of you want to convince me.
When it comes to who is smarter, A's or P's, nobody has convinced me to change my opinion. I still think your average xenomorph drone is maybe as bright as a German Shepherd Dog and they can't hold an intellectual candle to the Predators. My opinion.
I'm not asking anybody to kiss my ass -- you should call it like you see it. On the other hand, what I offer in my defense is that I have been one of the guys down in the trenches doing this work, going back to the first novels, and that does give me experience dealing with stories, plots, the people who own the franchise, editors, what's allowed and what isn't, and all that jazz that most of the folks who show up here don't have. There are a lot of folks out there who know more about these universes than I. But there aren't a lot of folks who have written more books in them than I have, so that does buy me a little bit of, I don't know, confidence, when it comes to talking about such things.
I know more about that part than you.
If you think I can't write for sour owl poot, that's okay, taste is taste. But if you are going to offer me lessons in how to do plot and character and motivations, then I need to see why I should pay attention. If you've never sold fiction, it's possible that you are better at it than I am, but that's not the way the smart money bets.
I like talking to fans. Even if we disagree, polite and well-mannered ones are more fun to deal with than those who swagger in with a chips on their shoulders and something to prove. If you can't see why, that almost certainly puts you into the latter category.
Steve
P.S. To the query: I haven't had writer's block yet. The best way I've found to avoid it is to have more than one project going at any given time. If you don't want to work on one, work on a different one for a while. Plenty of days I don't feel like working, but once I sit down and start cranking, I can find something to write, even if I have to rewrite or trash most of it later. Writer's block means you can't write, not that you don't feel like it ...
This post made my day. Also,
Quote from: steveperry on Oct 21, 2009, 01:04:00 AM
Oh, look. It's another asshole. Yawn.
:D :D :D
Sup, Steve.
I do feel that you trivialise the Alien a lot of the time, and at the end of the day the narrative potential of the species suffers because of it. In ALIENS, we witnessed them consciously taking out the main power to at least the Operations complex and avoiding weapons fire through the use of their own hive structures and the human-built colony itself, while in ALIEN: Resurrection, they could grasp basic technology. These are creatures that are, except in the case of Acheron, just a few hours old.
A human can't grasp technology at a few hours and certainly can't understand the technical requirements of a Weyland-Yutani installation at a few weeks of age.
You're not the sole perpetrator of the Aliens-as-fodder viewpoint, but given that you have had and still have a major role in shaping the stories that occur within the franchise, it's disappointing that you shoehorn Aliens, of all creatures, into the cannon fodder role.
While you clearly don't agree, I find that treatment of the Aliens as a waste of excellent visual design and creature concepts, and they begin to lose their luster when the creatures are often dealt with very easily. It removes tension from the role of the Alien, and the stories become less Aliens vs. Predator and more Humans Deal With Predators And Maybe Some Aliens Cause Mischief.
It's like this Predator level in the second Aliens vs. Predator game; you jump out of a split in the ground and before you is a steep hill. It's a fair distance away and creates a neat firing lane. Prepare for one of the most boring moments in the Predator campaign as Aliens attack you in small groups while you whip out the plasma caster and shoot them down as they mindlessly rush towards you.
The Alien vs. Predator movie had its faults, but one of its strong-points was displaying the battles between Aliens and Predators in a more balanced light. There, the Aliens didn't just announce themselves and allow themselves to become targets, but actually acted as per the original movies, using the shadows to their advantage and waiting until their prey was focused elsewhere. The best example of this was in the Celtic vs. Grid fight, after Celtic cut Grid's tail. Grid, being quite clever and quite above German Shepherd intelligence, used his own blood to damage Celtic's armour and bought time for a sneak attack that ultimately led to the battle ending in Grid's favour.
If the concept behind Aliens vs. Predator is Predators engaging in combat with a species that has the capacity to hunt them back, I find it counter-intuitive to display Alien intelligence as that of a German Shepherd, especially when evidence to the contrary is in the movies themselves. The tension comes on which you give the Predators opponents that well and truly surpass them in some ways, and the way Aliens are often written doesn't allow for that. I'm not saying that Aliens have intelligence that surpasses a Predator, but the movies and the commentaries behind them make it clear that they're supposed to be far above non-human entities. Hell, the original concept was that the Alien didn't use technology since its physical perfection outgrew the need for peripherals like weapons and vehicles.
The bottom line with Predators is that they're insanely close to human. It's easy to root for them and even sympathise or empathise with them. Aliens are a different story altogether, being of a psychology not comparable to human or Predator. They make excellent villains because there's no humanity to them - just perfect adaption to the role of survival and killing anything that gets in the way of that. Every Alien should be considered a powerful threat the same way an individual Predator is, because despite its weakness to powerful enough ranged weapons, it's not going to reveal itself. Aliens are far more patient than either humans or Predators, caring only for survival, not the hunt or any human needs.
I'm not saying that Aliens should be dominant without question, but I am saying that their weakness as displayed in your writings (among the works of others) removes a lot of what originally made the Alien an effective monster.
EDIT:
In the commentary of the Director's Cut of ALIENS (1:48:23, to be precise), Cameron addresses the cleverness and intelligence of Aliens directly - this is essentially the word of God unless Scott wants to contradict him:
"Now this is a distinction - I never actually got a sense in the first film that the Alien actually had an intelligence that allowed it to manipulate their technology, but I didn't see that necessarily as a barrier here, because certainly these creatures have been around long, you know. You have to remember, the Alien in the first film had only been alive for twenty-four hours, it was still an infant even though it had grown full size.
These Aliens have had weeks or months to figure things out. There's no reason they couldn't figure out how the electrical system worked and that sort of thing. I'm not saying they're technological, but there's rudimentary stuff. So the implication here is that they're actually pretty clever. And I think it's clear by the end of the film that the Alien Queen knows how to operate an elevator, if nothing else."
So, there you have it, really. The most influential source material of Aliens vs. Predator in terms of the Alien creature, even more so than the original film, directly means to imply that the Aliens are "pretty clever". Not just the Queen, either, but your basic Alien warriors. Even if it were just the Queen, she can clearly communicate to other Aliens and there's no reason to believe that they'd magically forget what she's taught them, especially given that the whole point of the Alien's psychology is to be unknowable.
Quote from: steveperry on Oct 21, 2009, 01:04:00 AM
A lot of what gets put forth over the anonymous net with people hiding behind netnoms would never get said if it had to be delivered face-to-face. Easy to be brave when nobody knows who you are. Remember that scene where Jay and Silent Bob hunt down their internet critics and kick their asses ... ? I loved that.
"I'm gonna kill all these f**ks..." :D
With all due respect, the Aliens were designed by an artist going for a horrific look, and their physiology is, at best, cartoonish. That they don't collapse under their own weight is fairly amazing. Hold one up in front of a biologist or a physiologist and stand back as he tells you how efficient their design is for a creature who supposedly came of age in a gravity well.
Second, if you've ever seen dogs run obstacles courses or do herding trials, you will see them do things that in just about every way equals anything the xenos do -- under direction of the Queen. Her, I give props for IQ. They are like bee or ant drones, and not a one of them could pass the Turing Test.
I think that the notion the Aliens might have been "borrowed" from A.E. van Vogt's "Black Destroyer" is one to be considered, and Jim Cameron, much as I love his movies, is not a particularly original science fiction thinker Ask Harlan Ellison ...
This doesn't mean they aren't dangerous, like a tiger is dangerous. Put an unarmed man in a cage with a tiger, I know how I'd bet the outcome. But the drones won't be playing chess for the championship.
Far as I can see it, the xenos are woof! woof! all the way down ...
Steve
Quote from: steveperry on Oct 21, 2009, 11:02:13 PM
Her, I give props for IQ.
The drones cut the power.
The Queen monkey-saw, monkey-did.
The entire extent of her intelligence was realising that if she went into the elevator she'd go where Ripley went, and that flame = bad ... which as Ash pointed out in the first movie, most animals realise.
Attributing the cutting of the power to the Queen would be quite the stretch, given her entire role in the whole mess is essentially to sit on her ass physically strapped into the hive itself and lay eggs.
An interesting point brought up in another forum, though, is that in
Alien, when the alarms start going off, the Alien went into the shuttle - The one quiet place, and the one place less likely to explode in the immediate future. Not saying it realised the whole exploding thing, but that when the ship went berzerk, it went went in the opposite direction.
When the station starts literally falling to pieces in
Aliens, the super intelligent Queen ... continues sitting on her ass laying eggs in a dormant state. Admittedly there were still drones in the hive as well, but not many. They were still hanging around the colony ... again, the quiet place less likely to explode soonish.
QuoteI think that the notion the Aliens might have been "borrowed" from A.E. van Vogt's "Black Destroyer" is one to be considered,
When O'Bannon rattled off the laundry list of places he stole
Alien from ("I didn't steal Alien from anybody, I stole it from
everybody."), I can't remember the Black Destroyer being among them. But it's been a while.
Black Destroyer and Discord in Scarlet are both parts of Van Vogts 'Voyage Of The Space Beagle'. I've been meaning to read it for a long while, but a quick glance at the plot summaries on Wikipedia reveal the obvious inspiration for both It! and Alien. From memory they settled with Van Vogt out of court.
Quote from: steveperry on Oct 21, 2009, 11:02:13 PM
With all due respect, the Aliens were designed by an artist going for a horrific look, and their physiology is, at best, cartoonish. That they don't collapse under their own weight is fairly amazing. Hold one up in front of a biologist or a physiologist and stand back as he tells you how efficient their design is for a creature who supposedly came of age in a gravity well.
Arguable, depending on whether you believe they're exoskeletal or simply have the "lithe metal" skin originally applied to them. The horror thing is pretty dead on, but you gotta admit, it works. :P
My point remains, whichever way you want to go on their feasibility; their visual presentation was utterly unique and the concept of the creature and the role it plays is excellent. Turning them into something to be killed en mass just feels like a waste of all this, in favour of what is essentially a big-strong space man that you embellished yourself (not that I'm criticising that in particular. You clearly felt the need to bring the Predator a bit closer to us in a few ways).
Quote from: steveperry on Oct 21, 2009, 11:02:13 PMSecond, if you've ever seen dogs run obstacles courses or do herding trials, you will see them do things that in just about every way equals anything the xenos do -- under direction of the Queen. Her, I give props for IQ. They are like bee or ant drones, and not a one of them could pass the Turing Test.
No real evidence to support this. It might've been implied, perhaps, if there wasn't substantial evidence of Aliens acting wisely under their own initiative.
After all, the Queen can only command her troops - there's no way she can have an real-time map concept of the colony and can command her Alien warriors to do specific tasks. It's far more likely and feasible that she instructs them on what the objective is and what area it looks like it'll be in and they figure everything else out themselves.
Quote from: steveperry on Oct 21, 2009, 11:02:13 PMI think that the notion the Aliens might have been "borrowed" from A.E. van Vogt's "Black Destroyer" is one to be considered, and Jim Cameron, much as I love his movies, is not a particularly original science fiction thinker Ask Harlan Ellison ...
The Alien wasn't stolen from anyone - it was stolen from
everyone. Doesn't stop the end product from being something well-designed, iconic and dramatically useful.
Quote from: steveperry on Oct 21, 2009, 11:02:13 PMThis doesn't mean they aren't dangerous, like a tiger is dangerous. Put an unarmed man in a cage with a tiger, I know how I'd bet the outcome. But the drones won't be playing chess for the championship.
Sure. The Alien = big cat scenario always seemed flawed to me, though. For one thing, all the original Alien concepts had it as something of either incredible intelligence or, as we saw on film, unknowable psychology. Every scene that trivialised the horror or made it seem more conventionally animal was cut, and cut for a reason. "Crab-walking" up to Lambert and messing with the crew's lockers to find food are good examples.
The point isn't so much for me to display the Alien as a genius, but as
competent. One of my major issues with almost all the EU material is that it makes Aliens look like this dumb things that'll run headlong into fire and/or weaklings (in the scope of AvP) that'll go down to one or two pistol rounds (when the one Vasquez shot at close range about eight times was still writhing after she let go of it).
What frightfulness can come of that monster? It's simply too easily dealt with to be threatening, while the Predator is humanised and therefore loses a lot of its dramatic tension in a different way. When Aliens are weak enemies and Predators can be bargained with (or at least follow a strict honour code rather than just looking for the thrill of the hunt), what's left to fear?
I think there are two main problems here:
1) There's always lots of talk about how originally, both the Alien and the Predator were completely unknown in their motives/psychology, and what made them great is how alien they were to us, how unknowable, and yet the same people that say that tend to treat the behavior of the specific creatures from those two films as the gospel for all members of that race. Do I think Mr. Perry's aliens were considerably less fearsome than their onscreen counterparts? Definitely. Did I ever have a problem with it while reading his books? No. There's any number of reasons that the aliens of Prey, or even Earth War, could be less smart or otherwise different from the LV-426 Aliens, or Kane's Son, or the Runner. Everyone is obviously welcome to disagree with that approach, but anyone taking anything as ironclad truth on a species whose entire point is to be alien and unknowable is, I think, a bit on the foolish side.
2) Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I have always felt that Mr. Perry is simply not a horror writer. He's a science fiction writer, and while they're not always mutually exclusive, I think he's a lot more likely to win a Hugo than a Stoker. I think that Aliens/Predator shouldn't be shoehorned into strictly horror all the time. After all, Aliens to me was more sci-fi than horror. As formidable as the creatures were in that film, they really just weren't all that scary if you ask me. If you want to be frightened, go watch Alien or Alien 3.
Quote from: Mr. Domino on Oct 22, 2009, 01:31:29 AM
1) There's always lots of talk about how originally, both the Alien and the Predator were completely unknown in their motives/psychology, and what made them great is how alien they were to us, how unknowable, and yet the same people that say that tend to treat the behavior of the specific creatures from those two films as the gospel for all members of that race. Do I think Mr. Perry's aliens were considerably less fearsome than their onscreen counterparts? Definitely. Did I ever have a problem with it while reading his books? No. There's any number of reasons that the aliens of Prey, or even Earth War, could be less smart or otherwise different from the LV-426 Aliens, or Kane's Son, or the Runner. Everyone is obviously welcome to disagree with that approach, but anyone taking anything as ironclad truth on a species whose entire point is to be alien and unknowable is, I think, a bit on the foolish side.
Reducing the competence of the Aliens defeats the purpose of their narrative role. Sure, they could be weaker or stupider for certain reasons, by
why would anyone do this? Why make your villain less threatening?
Quote from: Mr. Domino on Oct 22, 2009, 01:31:29 AM2) Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I have always felt that Mr. Perry is simply not a horror writer. He's a science fiction writer, and while they're not always mutually exclusive, I think he's a lot more likely to win a Hugo than a Stoker. I think that Aliens/Predator shouldn't be shoehorned into strictly horror all the time. After all, Aliens to me was more sci-fi than horror. As formidable as the creatures were in that film, they really just weren't all that scary if you ask me. If you want to be frightened, go watch Alien or Alien 3.
But they were threatening. That's the bottom line.
Alien - all of them - has always been horror stories in a science fiction setting.
Quote from: SM on Oct 21, 2009, 11:28:06 PM
Black Destroyer and Discord in Scarlet are both parts of Van Vogts 'Voyage Of The Space Beagle'. I've been meaning to read it for a long while, but a quick glance at the plot summaries on Wikipedia reveal the obvious inspiration for both It! and Alien. From memory they settled with Van Vogt out of court.
I see. But didn't O'Bannon say that he thought the whole thing was a bit of a laugh considering it was one of the places he actually
didn't take anything from? I'm referring to his introduction to the script on the Quadrilogy. Been a while on my end.
Quote from: SM on Oct 22, 2009, 01:39:10 AM
Alien - all of them - has always been horror stories in a science fiction setting.
If you want to call Aliens and Resurrection horror movies, be my guest.
Cameron and JPJ made horror films. Whether you find them scary or not is neither here nor there.
QuoteI see. But didn't O'Bannon say that he thought the whole thing was a bit of a laugh considering it was one of the places he actually didn't take anything from? I'm referring to his introduction to the script on the Quadrilogy. Been a while on my end.
I recall something similar too. But based on those wiki descriptions the similarities are blatant for Van Vogt to make a case - whether O'Bannon actually nicked them or not.
A couple of points: If a moviemaker admits he swiped something from somebody in particular, he is liable for it. Because he said he didn't steal it from this guy or that doesn't make it so.
Cameron swiped The Terminator from Harlan Ellison. And was foolish enough to admit it to a journalist, which is why Harlan's name got put on the DVDs and he got a nice financial settlement. Van Vogt did, too.
People in Hollywood steal stuff all the time and hope to get away with it. Mostly, they do. Sometimes they don't.
Trying to imbue the xenomorphs with depth came from the comic and novel writers. What they have in the movies is shallow at best, and one-note. All they do is eat and reproduce. I don't see any culture anywhere more complex than an ant hill or a bee hive.
Alien was a haunted house in space movie, and scary more because you mostly saw only glimpses of the monster as it went "Gotcha!"
A2 was science fiction, and Heinlein's bug hunt.
A3 was back to horror and, for my money, a waste of time. It made A2 moot, and I thought A2 was the best of the bunch. That's taste, and how I see it. No point in arguing that.
A monster need not be intelligent to be scary. Nor does it need to be invulnerable. The Alien queen had enough sense to realize that an elevator did what it did.
I don't see the drones as anything but ot-nay oot-tay ight-bray. For all I know, they are telepathic and the queens order them around like pawns. I could make a good case for that, and surely enough hints have been dropped that this is possible, even likely. They don't seem to have any language, though maybe it's ultrasonic or based on pheromones.
It doesn't matter. They don't really exist. They are all spun from imaginary cloth, and as real as Sherlock Holmes and Han Solo. Whatever life they have comes from the puppeteers who make them dance. As one of the puppeteers, I got to pull the strings a few times. I did it like I thought it made sense.
Aliens, who are cross between lobsters and wasps, with acid for blood and big ole teeth and sharp tails, started out as gotcha-monsters in a movie about space truck drivers. All they needed was to look scary and be able to kill people. And that's all they did.
And all they needed to do.
Still is. Making them "intelligent" serves no purpose. If they were very bright, they'd have won more than they lost, and they didn't. Ipso facto.
QuoteStill is. Making them "intelligent" serves no purpose. If they were very bright, they'd have won more than they lost, and they didn't. Ipso facto.
Their ultimate deaths in the finale's were unavoidable, even if they were brain boxes or air heads.
Quote from: steveperry on Oct 22, 2009, 09:37:23 PM
Trying to imbue the xenomorphs with depth came from the comic and novel writers. What they have in the movies is shallow at best, and one-note.
I have to disagree with you entirely there. What the comics and novels have done is introduce the fanciful ideas of individual writers that don't really have a narrative role beyond, "hey, this would be cool". I recall one book trying to tell me that the Xenomorphs were creations of mankind, when the first movie had Alien eggs in a vessel that predated human space travel. One comic had a balls-out retarded Alien-Predator-Human hybrid that shat out facehuggers and threw them.
Another comic had an instance of a Predator, human and Alien Queen teaming up. There was an Alien King in one comic, too, although it served no purpose because it basically just died anyway. Not that it had any place within the life-cycle.
The EU works are - for the most part - ridiculously under-considered on the part of the writer. They do not add any depth to the Alien creature at all and tend to ignore what gives the Alien depth (and it is more considerable than you may think) it has. The Alien doesn't need a culture, a language or anything that makes a human being interesting. Its psychosexuality, necromorphic form and frighteningly savvy psychology give it draw.
Quote from: steveperry on Oct 22, 2009, 09:37:23 PMAll they do is eat and reproduce. I don't see any culture anywhere more complex than an ant hill or a bee hive.
There doesn't need to be a culture. Aliens are avatars of survivalism - anything that doesn't contribute to death, reproduction or survival is pointless, which is the draw of their villainy. They're unrelenting enemies because they don't suffer from human weaknesses or needs.
Quote from: steveperry on Oct 22, 2009, 09:37:23 PMA monster need not be intelligent to be scary. Nor does it need to be invulnerable. The Alien queen had enough sense to realize that an elevator did what it did.
Sure, but dumb enemies are generally either in video games or are interesting because they don't know what they're doing. Having a creature designed as a consummate icon of predatory evolution act unintelligently is just defeating the purpose before you even put pen to paper (or finger to key). Aliens being invulnerable doesn't matter - if their behaviour in EU works was consistent with the movies, then they wouldn't present themselves as targets even half the time we see them in the comics.
As SiL pointed out, the Alien Queen sat on her bottom when the first Alien at least changed location and went somewhere that wasn't exploding. And there didn't seem to be many other Aliens that wanted to stick around.
Quote from: steveperry on Oct 22, 2009, 09:37:23 PMI don't see the drones as anything but ot-nay oot-tay ight-bray. For all I know, they are telepathic and the queens order them around like pawns. I could make a good case for that, and surely enough hints have been dropped that this is possible, even likely. They don't seem to have any language, though maybe it's ultrasonic or based on pheromones.
On the other hand, the Queen made definite physical movements to ward off the Aliens in the egg chamber. In A:R, the Alien that was chosen to be a sacrifice for the sake of escape didn't seem very willing at all. It seems more likely to me that Aliens are instructed by the Queen in extremely general terms but have enough individual intelligence to solve problems and choose proper targets themselves - as is necessary for a such a survivalist.
Quote from: steveperry on Oct 22, 2009, 09:37:23 PMIt doesn't matter. They don't really exist. They are all spun from imaginary cloth, and as real as Sherlock Holmes and Han Solo. Whatever life they have comes from the puppeteers who make them dance. As one of the puppeteers, I got to pull the strings a few times. I did it like I thought it made sense.
Sure thing. I don't blame you for putting your thoughts to paper because it's what any of us would've done given the opportunity you were given. The disparity between the Alien creatures in the series of the same name and the Alien creatures within AvP media is really throwing, however. It's clear that the Alien has been downgraded to make way for the Predator and that just seems unnecessary.
Quote from: steveperry on Oct 22, 2009, 09:37:23 PMAliens, who are cross between lobsters and wasps, with acid for blood and big ole teeth and sharp tails, started out as gotcha-monsters in a movie about space truck drivers. All they needed was to look scary and be able to kill people. And that's all they did.
And all they needed to do.
Still is. Making them "intelligent" serves no purpose. If they were very bright, they'd have won more than they lost, and they didn't. Ipso facto.
Making them intelligent makes them more competent foes. Ergo, more of a threat. Ergo, they produce more narrative and dramatic tension. There's a reason why so many EU comics and novels aren't gripping - portraying the Alien as weak, they set up a sort of safety zone where the reader doesn't feel threatened by the capabilities of the Alien.
As for winning more than they lost:
They did.
In the first film, Ripley threw it out into space, but it caused the destruction of the Nostromo and killed every other crew member. In the second film, there were four survivors out of almost twenty characters and Hadley's Hope was levelled. In Alien 3, one survivor. A:R, an entire military vessel's worth of soldiers was evacuated (and many killed) over the release of seven Aliens before the vessel was smashed into Earth.
The killcount doesn't really lie.
In the first film, Ripley threw it out into space, but it caused the destruction of the Nostromo and killed every other crew member. In the second film, there were four survivors out of almost twenty characters and Hadley's Hope was levelled. In Alien 3, one survivor. A:R, an entire military vessel's worth of soldiers was evacuated (and many killed) over the release of seven Aliens before the vessel was smashed into Earth.
The killcount doesn't really lie.
Actually, yeah, it does lie.
The crew of the Nostromo were typical monster-movie idiots and every place they had a choice, they picked the stupid one. Even so, Ripley survived, the xeno froze in space, so the humans won. Last woman standing.
Twenty characters in A2 versus how many Aliens? Hundreds, at least, maybe thousands. When the cutting was done, the aliens were all dead, and Ripley, Newt, and Hicks weren't. Humans over Aliens.
A3 I didn't care. The movie was lost me when the ship crashed.
A4. Ho hum. Who was left at the credit crawl? Some of the people, yets?
AvP I and II, how many xenos running loose?
Body count doesn't determine who wins. Never has.
Your comments are articulate and well-considered. I just don't agree with them. The Xenos seem like bugs to me, and while you are obviously passionate in your belief, I don't hear anything that changes my mind. Sorry.
Quote from: steveperry on Oct 22, 2009, 11:37:42 PM
Actually, yeah, it does lie.
The crew of the Nostromo were typical monster-movie idiots and every place they had a choice, they picked the stupid one. Even so, Ripley survived, the xeno froze in space, so the humans won. Last woman standing.
On the contrary, the crew of the Nostromo were notable for having a plan and enacting it with focus and some modicum of leadership. The plan to shoot it out the airlock was one that was a failure due to the failure of the original motion tracker, and the plan to take their chances and leave would've worked if they weren't apprehended by the Alien.
Each kill the Alien made was not due to the incompetence of the Nostromo crew, but the strength of the Alien.
Quote from: steveperry on Oct 22, 2009, 11:37:42 PMTwenty characters in A2 versus how many Aliens? Hundreds, at least, maybe thousands. When the cutting was done, the aliens were all dead, and Ripley, Newt, and Hicks weren't. Humans over Aliens.
157. 160+ if you count the Marines that were hauled off in the initial confrontation. This number was drawn from Burke's statement, if I remember correctly, of how many colonists were on LV-426. Obviously, captured Marines made for more hosts.
Most were killed in the blast at the end, with relatively few killed by the Marines themselves. Since it's all off-camera, we can only interpret the kills, but I'd hazard a guess and say that Alien fatalities were minimal in the first confrontation. During the second one in Operations and the vents, they'd have been larger, but still not substantial enough to actually make the Aliens back off.
Remember that, after the Operations battle, there were still enough Aliens to overwhelm the motion tracker. And if there were only 160 or so to begin with, not that many could've died thus far.
Quote from: steveperry on Oct 22, 2009, 11:37:42 PMYour comments are articulate and well-considered. I just don't agree with them. The Xenos seem like bugs to me, and while you are obviously passionate in your belief, I don't hear anything that changes my mind. Sorry.
Thanks, and I extend the same to you. This kind of discussion occurs a lot on this forum, and I wanted to have it with someone in a position of relative influence within the franchise. And now I have.
One last note. Sorry. :P
Quote from: James CameronNow this is a distinction - I never actually got a sense in the first film that the Alien actually had an intelligence that allowed it to manipulate their technology, but I didn't see that necessarily as a barrier here, because certainly these creatures have been around long, you know. You have to remember, the Alien in the first film had only been alive for twenty-four hours, it was still an infant even though it had grown full size.
These Aliens have had weeks or months to figure things out. There's no reason they couldn't figure out how the electrical system worked and that sort of thing. I'm not saying they're technological, but there's rudimentary stuff. So the implication here is that they're actually pretty clever. And I think it's clear by the end of the film that the Alien Queen knows how to operate an elevator, if nothing else.
QuoteThe crew of the Nostromo were typical monster-movie idiots and every place they had a choice, they picked the stupid one.
We went over this in detail, and when looking at the situation as presented, the only thing that really stands out as stupid is Kane sticking his face in the egg. Everything else was justifiable given the circumstances.
QuoteTwenty characters in A2 versus how many Aliens? Hundreds, at least, maybe thousands. When the cutting was done, the aliens were all dead, and Ripley, Newt, and Hicks weren't. Humans over Aliens.
Thermonuclear explosion caused by ruptured cooling units over Aliens. The humans did very little - For all their hardware and talks of their baddassery, the on-screen kills (This is including the sentry gun sequence) was only in the 20s. Not bad considering Aliens have no defense at long range.
(Maybe thousands of Aliens? From where? Colony population was only 157 or so. And some people clearly didn't get to be used as hosts.)
Yeah, we went over it in detail and I still think they were stupid. Thelma and Louise in space.
However you want to slice it, when the movie was over -- stay with me here -- all the Aliens in it were dead, weren't they? And Ripley wasn't.
I'm not saying that the smart always survive. In this case, that's what happened.
Sure, but that was circumstantial more than anything. The Marines didn't intend to cause the rupture that caused the explosion and were desperately trying to escape before that happened.
Only one Marine and two civilians escaped while the explosion did the work for them. The Marines didn't defeat the Aliens as much as they messed up and, well, died, mostly.
Didn't the much smarter Predators invariably get beat too?
By a desperate commando and a cop, no less.
QuoteHowever you want to slice it, when the movie was over -- stay with me here -- all the Aliens in it were dead, weren't they? And Ripley wasn't.
But in
Aliens, it was simply because they had better transport. If the survivors hadn't been able to high-tail it out of there in the dropship, they'd be just as dead. And if the plant
hadn't exploded, Ripley, Hicks et al. would've been overwhelmed by Aliens before help arrived.
QuoteI'm not saying that the smart always survive. In this case, that's what happened.
Yet when you look at it, the Aliens were only defeated twice by their opponent's intelligence - The last two movies. Ripley didn't kill the Alien through cunning in the first two movies; she killed it because she was able to open a convenient door in time. If the Queen hadn't been pinned so awkwardly under the powerloader she would've been dead Doubly so if Ripley hadn't had a magical script immunity arm at the last second.
And remember, in the third movie, human ingenuity failed in the face of the Alien's ability to take ten tons of molten lead and burst out of it unhurt. A bit irritated, perhaps, but not damaged.
But then human ingenuity prevailed when Morse remembered the one science lesson he ever paid attention to.
Quote from: SM on Oct 23, 2009, 12:58:25 AM
Didn't the much smarter Predators invariably get beat too?
Dutch beat the first one because he got lucky. Harrigan however beat the second one because it was fairly stupid. I mean, come on...Playing possum?
But yeah, the first one was pretty damn smart.
You got any interests in returning to the Predator franchise Steve? 'Turnabout' was an impressive debut.
If. If pigs had wings they'd fly. And if I was writing a movie where I needed flying pigs, I could give them wings.
All of this stuff is spun from the minds of the writers who create it, the directors who screw it up, the editors who cut it or pad it, in movies, books, comics, whatever.
Plot-device Man is the superhero who decides who lives and who dies, and al of the speculations about Enterprise or Millennium Falcon, Hulk versus The Thing, or peanut butter v chocolate can be kind of fun but ultimately moot at best and specious at worst.
People like to choose sides. The Aliens fans favor the xenos, the Predator fans, the yautja (a term in which I had a part in creating) and it's all good clean fun, but really, some folks take it waaaay too seriously. The color of the lint in Ripley's pocket last Tuesday really doesn't interest me, or most people who watch the movies, or read the graphic or prose novels, it really doesn't, and since I, or anybody else who gets to write one of these can mess with that, it really doesn't pay to get too attached to it.
I hear the same thing in the Star Wars universe, the Indiana Jones universe, and back when I was doing 'em, the Conan, Batman, and Spider Man universe.
Oh, Princess Leia would never do that! a fan writes, royally pissed-off at me.
Well, two things: 1) Yes, she would, because she did. 2) There is no Princess Leia, dude. Somebody made her up, and what you think about when you imagine her is Carrie Fisher, an actress playing a part.
People buy books and go see movies, and for that reason, the Aliens and the Predators are going to keep losing. Might win a battle now and the, but not the war. No money in that. Last time I looked, imaginary characters didn't buy a lot of popcorn ...
I might write another book in one of the series someday, I'm not ruling it out, 'cause they were fun to do.
The point is that an incompetent villain is boring.
Quote from: steveperry on Oct 25, 2009, 10:48:52 PM
Oh, Princess Leia would never do that! a fan writes, royally pissed-off at me.
Well, two things: 1) Yes, she would, because she did. 2) There is no Princess Leia, dude. Somebody made her up, and what you think about when you imagine her is Carrie Fisher, an actress playing a part.
While I don't entirely disagree with you, Steve, I think this is kind of the wrong attitude to take here. I know personally if I read a book that's set in a universe I'm familiar with, with characters I'm familiar with, and the characters act contrary to how they act in the movie/tv series/etc. it both annoys me, and makes me not want to read future books by that author.
Authors that write within a pre-established universe have a bit of a trade-off going. They don't have to build a world for their readers, which saves a lot of time, but they do have (I feel) a responsibility to their readers to respect the source material wherever possible.
Now, all that being said, I've never had any problems with any of your work, although I can definitely see where Alex is coming from.
QuoteI know personally if I read a book that's set in a universe I'm familiar with, with characters I'm familiar with, and the characters act contrary to how they act in the movie/tv series/etc. it both annoys me, and makes me not want to read future books by that author.
Then you got your answer - don't read anymore books by that author. I think Friedman did a fairly awful job with Ripley in Original Sin, as she seem to have regressed back to where she was at the start of Resurrection, rather than the end - nevermind what her mindset would be several years after the fact. So I doubt I'd buy anymore books he wrote about Ripley and co.
Not a terribly big call seeing as more books set post Resurrection aren't exactly flooding the market, but there you go.
In terms of Star Wars, I think most authors generally do alright with the characterisations. Some do better and others are crap, but overall they're decent. With Star Wars however, there's an active group of people approving EU material. With Alien and Predator - it's either non-existant or severely under-resourced.
I have a few questions for you Steve.
Are you interested in any particular video games in terms of storyline and will you be getting the new Aliens vs Predator game when it is released?
I just finished Earth Hive by the way and it was fantastic :) I just wish Hicks and Newt werent killed off in Alien 3. What was your reactions and opinions to their deaths when you first saw the film and how did this affect you as a fan? Thank you.
Quote from: To The Death on Oct 31, 2009, 07:41:35 PM
I have a few questions for you Steve.
Are you interested in any particular video games in terms of storyline and will you be getting the new Aliens vs Predator game when it is released?
I just finished Earth Hive by the way and it was fantastic :) I just wish Hicks and Newt werent killed off in Alien 3. What was your reactions and opinions to their deaths when you first saw the film and how did this affect you as a fan? Thank you.
I'm not a gamer, so I don't keep with with what goes on in the A, P, or AvP universe there. Nothing wrong with it, just not my thing. I'm an analog guy, and after all day in front of the computer, video games isn't how I unwind. I play guitar, do martial arts, walk my dogs.
Playstation, Wii, X-box, my grandsons have all those and sometimes I watch them play, but it doesn't call to me.
I thought A3 was terrible. After all the effort in A2, to kill the survivors off was, in my mind, and not to put too fine a point on it, exceedingly stupid. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. And it went downhill from there. If I could wave my hand and make every print of the movie vanish, and all memory of it go away, I'd do it.
But, no, really, other than that? I hated it.
Heh, I prefered it to Aliens.
Same.
I'd love it even more if they'd actually come up with a half-decent excuse for the egg, though. Even the rejected "Growing in Bishop's remains" would've been better than the "HAI GUYS DON'T MIND ME I'M JUST CHILLIN' HERE" upside down egg.
Other than that, it was a great reality check after Cameron's "Daughter died? Just find a little girl whose family was butchered by Aliens and everything will be fine! And then throw in a useless marine for a father figure and watch the post-traumatic stress just wash away!"
I never had a problem with the egg. The Queens primary objective, hell the primary objective of Aliens in general is to survive, makes sense she'd at least pop one out before throwing down with Ripley. I can't remember if it's seen to be placed on any part of the ship, I always assumed it was on the Dropship. True?
As for everyone biting the bullet...Well I always thought that sorta summed up Ripleys relationship with the creature; it's always gonna be just her and the monster.
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 01, 2009, 12:47:30 AM
I always assumed it was on the Dropship. True?
Nope, hence the problems.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 01, 2009, 12:55:12 AM
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 01, 2009, 12:47:30 AM
I always assumed it was on the Dropship. True?
Nope, hence the problems.
Bleh, yeah that makes no sense. Wouldn't have been hard to stick one on part of the Dropship either.
I have another question for you Steve.
What are your thoughts on the two new film projects 'Predators' and the 'Alien prequel'?
Do you think that these two films will be a success and do you think they have the potential to kick start both series again?
Thank you.
Hello Mr Perry.
This thread was actually one of the reasons I finally decided to join the forum. It's quite refreshing to see someone whose works I admire talking to the public! I've recently re-discovered your books. I used to read them avidly as a kid. Recently I've been scouring bookshops and e-bay left and right to find copies. It's a shame that they're so hard to find here in the UK.
I've never seen a writing style quite like yours before. It's very fragmented, which I think gives a good impression of the immediacy of the moments you're presenting. It works very well for the fast paced Aliens/Predator universes, and thank you very much for writing them. They've inspired much artwork from me.
Had you ever considered writing a novel entirely from the perspective of a young Yautja and minimizing the human element or presence?
New movies. Same thoughts as the on the old ones. Get a good writer, director, actors, come up with a good story, you have a winner. Let some fanboys who like to see lots of gore loose on 'em, you don't get the audience.
Alien was scary, and aside from the chest-burster, not all that gory. Good date movie.
Aliens was a better picture, and for me, the acme of the series. Cameron is a better moviemaker than anybody else who has laid hands on the franchises.
For me, Predator was okay. P2, not so much. AvP? Less said the better. A3, I've mentioned, didn't work for me at all. A4. Meh.
We all have our choices for our own reasons, them's mine.
As for Predator POV, my daughter and I did a little of that in AvP, and fans seemed to like it. We're weren't supposed to go there, they didn't want us to, but we did it anyway and they decided they liked it.
I offered to try a book with that kind of POV, and they decided against it. Their toy, they get to make the rules.
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 01, 2009, 06:46:01 PM
Aliens was a better picture, and for me, the acme of the series. Cameron is a better moviemaker than anybody else who has laid hands on the franchises.
Inb4 SiL.
I find it humorous that you didn't deem AVPR worthy of mention.
Hello Mr. Perry!
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 01, 2009, 06:46:01 PM
As for Predator POV, my daughter and I did a little of that in AvP, and fans seemed to like it. We're weren't supposed to go there, they didn't want us to, but we did it anyway and they decided they liked it.
I offered to try a book with that kind of POV, and they decided against it. Their toy, they get to make the rules.
It's so sad information. I was praying about story like this, Yautja POV only. There are many books or fanfiction, but for me - you are the Yautja God of Creation, your universe is such perfect. You made the canon. It's saint for me. Not movies. :)
I'm sorry, because I waste your time, but I have to write it.
Sorry for my mistakes, but I'm foreigner. (I learn English to read your books...)
Salute from far away... ;D
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 01, 2009, 07:34:49 PM
Inb4 SiL.
Eh.
Aliens is a much more entertaining ride than any of the other Alien movies.
And that's about it.
QuoteI find it humorous that you didn't deem AVPR worthy of mention.
Oh but he did...
QuoteLet some fanboys who like to see lots of gore loose on 'em, you don't get the audience.
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 01, 2009, 06:46:01 PM
As for Predator POV, my daughter and I did a little of that in AvP, and fans seemed to like it. We're weren't supposed to go there, they didn't want us to, but we did it anyway and they decided they liked it.
The Predator POV is the main reason I had stopped reading the Dark Horse novels; "Aliens", too. By introducing names, language, and so on to them, the Preddies had lost their mystique. They became little more than Klingons who skin humans.
Quote from: maledoro on Nov 01, 2009, 11:18:50 PM
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 01, 2009, 06:46:01 PM
As for Predator POV, my daughter and I did a little of that in AvP, and fans seemed to like it. We're weren't supposed to go there, they didn't want us to, but we did it anyway and they decided they liked it.
The Predator POV is the main reason I had stopped reading the Dark Horse novels; "Aliens", too. By introducing names, language, and so on to them, the Preddies had lost their mystique. They became little more than Klingons who skin humans.
I'm sorry but I don't agree. I really need to know who they are, I really need to know how, where etc.from best source. For me Yautja have big potential. I don't want them only as monster killing oomans. Not as a target in computer games. I love idea Yautja culture in books and I just want to know more and more.
I'm this kind of fan. I can talk about them for hours.... ;)
So I still have never-dying hope... ;D
QuoteI really need to know who they are, I really need to know how, where etc.from best source.
Wouldn't the "best source" be the films?
exploration of alien or predator background is fine if done well, in other words if done to my liking
Quote from: SM on Nov 02, 2009, 05:56:02 AM
Wouldn't the "best source" be the films?
I don't think so. 2 movies, quite good (I mean P1 & P2). One movie tolerable (AvP), one movie.... I censored myself ;)(AvP2). But where is the knowledge? Just speculations. What we really know about Yautja?
It's not the source. No knowledge. I prefer books (I know, it's strange ;)). No intermediary between author (writer) and recipient (spectator/reader). IMO the best script for AvP it was the Prey. But director had different conception. And we have AvP like this. :)
So for me the best source are the books. They made canon for me. But it's my personal opinion.
That's all.
BTW Do you really think it's possible to making good movie Yautja POV? I doubt. ;D
Quote from: maledoro on Nov 01, 2009, 11:18:50 PM
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 01, 2009, 06:46:01 PM
As for Predator POV, my daughter and I did a little of that in AvP, and fans seemed to like it. We're weren't supposed to go there, they didn't want us to, but we did it anyway and they decided they liked it.
The Predator POV is the main reason I had stopped reading the Dark Horse novels; "Aliens", too. By introducing names, language, and so on to them, the Preddies had lost their mystique. They became little more than Klingons who skin humans.
Mal gets it.
Quote from: keylight-di on Nov 02, 2009, 05:50:29 AM
I'm sorry but I don't agree. I really need to know who they are, I really need to know how, where etc.from best source.
First, you
don't need to need to know those things; you
want to. Whenever something like that is revealed, it's "Is that all there is?", and the appeal drops. Second, as others had pointed out, the "best source" is what was in the movies.
Quote from: keylight-di on Nov 02, 2009, 05:50:29 AM
For me Yautja have big potential. I don't want them only as monster killing oomans. Not as a target in computer games.
Too late! They're already pretty much that.
Quote from: keylight-di on Nov 02, 2009, 05:50:29 AM
I love idea Yautja culture in books and I just want to know more and more. I'm this kind of fan. I can talk about them for hours.... ;) So I still have never-dying hope... ;D
There are tons of
Star Trek episodes and films for you to see. All you have to do is substitute "Klingon" with "Yautja", make them less-diplomatic, and imagine them skinning people.
Quote from: keylight-di on Nov 02, 2009, 07:44:39 AM
Quote from: SM on Nov 02, 2009, 05:56:02 AM
Wouldn't the "best source" be the films?
I don't think so. 2 movies, quite good (I mean P1 & P2). One movie tolerable (AvP), one movie.... I censored myself ;)(AvP2). But where is the knowledge? Just speculations. What we really know about Yautja?
At that point, we knew that they were mysterious. The only knowledge we need is that the people are trying to survive against an
unknown creature. The "unknown" is the key. What's it gonna take to outlast the creature?
Quote from: keylight-di on Nov 02, 2009, 07:44:39 AM
It's not the source. No knowledge. I prefer books (I know, it's strange ;)). No intermediary between author (writer) and recipient (spectator/reader). IMO the best script for AvP it was the Prey. But director had different conception. And we have AvP like this. :) So for me the best source are the books. They made canon for me. But it's my personal opinion.
The point is that the books painted the Preddies as trite sci-fi creatures. Aliens that come to Earth to hunt humans is not a new idea; it's been around since at least the '50s. By adding hunting codes, exotic weapons, a language, etc., the Preddies resemble a certain established alien race. They are no longer unique, but a garden variety alien race. If you feel that the books are the best source, knock yourself out. As you said, it's your personal opinion. But keep in mind that very little of what's shown in the books resembles the creatures that we know and love in the movies. On that note, you really don't like the Preddies; you like some other race that (through licensing) shares the same name. Oh, wait: they're "Yautja" now.
Quote from: keylight-di on Nov 02, 2009, 07:44:39 AM
BTW Do you really think it's possible to making good movie Yautja POV? I doubt.
No. All of the
Predator and
AVP movies were too cerebral for that.
Quote from: maledoro on Nov 02, 2009, 12:56:31 PM
First, you don't need to need to know those things; you want to.
OK. Thank you. Knowledge it's not oxygen, so
"I want to". ;)
My first post in this tread I've written, it was
to Mr. Steve Perry. I didn't expect any response, and
I didn't expect discussion like this. I'm not sure it's good place for it. I just want him to know. Not making off topic.
Quote from: maledoro on Nov 02, 2009, 12:56:31 PM
On that note, you really don't like the Preddies; you like some other race that (through licensing) shares the same name. Oh, wait: they're "Yautja" now.
Sarcasm not necessary. ;) You think what you think. I've got my opinion. You can't change it, this way especially. And you don't need to.
Quote from: keylight-di on Nov 02, 2009, 03:03:44 PM
OK. Thank you. Knowledge it's not oxygen, so "I want to".
You're learning.
Quote from: keylight-di on Nov 02, 2009, 03:03:44 PM
My first post in this tread I've written, it was to Mr. Steve Perry. I didn't expect any response, and I didn't expect discussion like this. I'm not sure it's good place for it. I just want him to know. Not making off topic.
But you need to learn the difference between a private message and a public forum.
Quote from: keylight-di on Nov 02, 2009, 03:03:44 PM
Quote from: maledoro on Nov 02, 2009, 12:56:31 PM
On that note, you really don't like the Preddies; you like some other race that (through licensing) shares the same name. Oh, wait: they're "Yautja" now.
Sarcasm not necessary. ;) You think what you think. I've got my opinion. You can't change it, this way especially. And you don't need to.
I wasn't being sarcastic; I was simply calling a spade a spade. I was also reminding you of what you were
really hero-worshipping; that it strays from what the creators of the franchise had envisioned.
You don't like Predators; you like "Yautjas".
Quote from: maledoro on Nov 02, 2009, 03:10:57 PM
But you need to learn the difference between a private message and a public forum.
But subject of this tread is
"Ask Steve Perry", not
"Ask everyone who want to reply". ;)
Quote from: maledoro on Nov 02, 2009, 03:10:57 PM
You don't like Predators; you like "Yautjas".
Every Yautja it's
Predator, but not every
predator it's Yautja maybe? If even I love only Yautja, Mr. Perry is the best source of knowledge.
OK. Should we finish this OT maybe? It could be boring for observers. :-\
Quote from: maledoro on Nov 02, 2009, 03:10:57 PM
I wasn't being sarcastic; I was simply calling a spade a spade. I was also reminding you of what you were really hero-worshipping; that it strays from what the creators of the franchise had envisioned.
You don't like Predators; you like "Yautjas".
So, if you like a version of Batman who doesn't carry a gun (not to mention doesn't have a sidekick) do you then not like Batman? If I were to be particularly fond of Richard Dean Anderson's version of Jack O'Neill, am I not a Stargate fan? What about someone that prefers 'good' Arnie in T2 over 'bad' arnie in T1? All characters, if they're popular enough, eventually stray from what their creators envision. They grow, they change, they evolve.
The Thomas bros. originally intended the Predator to look like a retarded sloth, be a shapeshifter, and only use one weapon, which was a crazy, juiced-up version of the spear in Predator 2. Also, he wasn't hunting the humans specifically for trophies (although he did take them), but simply to learn more about humanity. Are you not a fan if you don't hold to that 'original' interpretation?
I challenge that you don't like Predators either; you like a
certain Predator (or perhaps two or three), and any that don't act exactly like the ones you like obviously aren't Predators.
Quote from: Mr. Domino on Nov 02, 2009, 07:13:37 PM
What about someone that prefers 'good' Arnie in T2 over 'bad' arnie in T1?
Completely different characters to begin with.
QuoteThe Thomas bros. originally intended the Predator to look like a retarded sloth, be a shapeshifter, and only use one weapon, which was a crazy, juiced-up version of the spear in Predator 2. Also, he wasn't hunting the humans specifically for trophies (although he did take them), but simply to learn more about humanity.
Well, no - The intention was
always that he was a big game hunter, coming to hunt humans. The learning about people thing came from whoever wrote the novel, and wasn't part of the original concept.
QuoteAre you not a fan if you don't hold to that 'original' interpretation?
That "original" non-existent interpretation didn't make it into the finished product, so it's a moot point.
QuoteI challenge that you don't like Predators either; you like a certain Predator (or perhaps two or three), and any that don't act exactly like the ones you like obviously aren't Predators.
I challenge that Mal has no particular fondness of the Predators to begin with.
A more suitable analogy would be looking at a Samurai warrior, and saying you like tribal hunters, or big game hunters. That's the difference here - The movies portray hunters, "rednecks going out on the weekend" as Hopkins put it, and Perry portrayed some sort of extraterrestrial Samurai.
or to keep with your Batman comment, it's like reading Superman and saying how much you love Batman because of his red and blue suit, flying abilities, and nigh-invincibility.
Quote from: keylight-di on Nov 02, 2009, 03:29:57 PM
But subject of this tread is "Ask Steve Perry", not "Ask everyone who want to reply".
You really don't know how making a public post works, do you? Anyone can chime in.
Quote from: keylight-di on Nov 02, 2009, 03:29:57 PM
Every Yautja it's Predator, but not every predator it's Yautja maybe?
The point is that you're settling for something that doesn't resemble the vision of the franchise's creators.
And,
Domino, what you don't seem to notice is that what the Perrys had done with the Preddies is radically different than what was shown in the movies, and is much more different than any or all of the examples you had given from the other franchises.
SiL pretty much nailed it with the "rednecks vs. samurai" (a great idea for a movie!) analogy.
(On a sidenote to
SiL: I do like the two
Predator movies and own them, and I dare to say that I liked the second one more than the first.)
Quote from: maledoro on Nov 03, 2009, 02:04:27 AM
(On a sidenote to SiL: I do like the two Predator movies and own them, and I dare to say that I liked the second one more than the first.)
Mal you're breaking my balls man. You're breaking my balls.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 02, 2009, 10:24:36 PM
Quote from: Mr. Domino on Nov 02, 2009, 07:13:37 PM
What about someone that prefers 'good' Arnie in T2 over 'bad' arnie in T1?
Completely different characters to begin with.
And...your point? Unless I've missed something entirely, the Predator's from different films are not only completely different characters, they're individuals, merely members of the same species, rather than being a machine of the same make and model as the radically different versions of arnie were.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 02, 2009, 10:24:36 PM
A more suitable analogy would be looking at a Samurai warrior, and saying you like tribal hunters, or big game hunters. That's the difference here - The movies portray hunters, "rednecks going out on the weekend" as Hopkins put it, and Perry portrayed some sort of extraterrestrial Samurai.
Right...and Scott portrayed an unfathomable creature of unknown origin, and Cameron portrayed a Space Termite. Your point?
Quote from: maledoro on Nov 03, 2009, 02:04:27 AM
And, Domino, what you don't seem to notice is that what the Perrys had done with the Preddies is radically different than what was shown in the movies, and is much more different than any or all of the examples you had given from the other franchises.
And you don't seem to notice that we're not talking about Michael Myers or James T. Kirk or James Bond, or any other icon here, we're talking about a
race of beings. They aren't going to act alike or think alike any more than you or I would. I think reading stories about different Predators who all acted exactly the same would be thoroughly boring.
Quote from: Mr. Domino on Nov 03, 2009, 04:51:44 AM
Unless I've missed something entirely, the Predator's from different films are not only completely different characters, they're individuals, merely members of the same species, rather than being a machine of the same make and model as the radically different versions of arnie were.
Difference being, despite the Arnies being different characters, they're still clearly the same thing, following a set of consistent patterns.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 02, 2009, 10:24:36 PM
Right...and Scott portrayed an unfathomable creature of unknown origin, and Cameron portrayed a Space Termite. Your point?
We aren't talking about Aliens here.
If we were, my point would be, "f**k Cameron's portrayal of the Aliens, seriously. Anyone who takes that portrayal over the others in the movies doesn't like the Alien."
Quote from: maledoro on Nov 03, 2009, 02:04:27 AM
I think reading stories about different Predators who all acted exactly the same would be thoroughly boring.
Yet people ask for more Yautja stuff and complain when we get the "Hish".
A quick, some what broad question for Mr. Perry. I was wondering what if you have any was your favorite novel that you worked on?
Dear maledoro
Quote from: maledoro on Nov 03, 2009, 02:04:27 AM
You really don't know how making a public post works, do you?
No, you wrong, I do. Maybe I can't read with understanding, but so you can't.
I didn't use PM because I don't want to waste his time (Mr. Perry I mean).
It's not my first forum.
But it's the first forum so aggressive.
I read this tread before posting and I can't understand - why me? Why me make you so aggressive? Why my post? There are many posts about this same. 54 pages of it.
Why don't you attack user, asking about how pronounce "žyautja"?
It's not movie canon.
Why don't you attack users, disputing about Yautja society? Or money? Or anything else?
It's not movie canon too.
When I read Perry's book - they are about Predators I love. When I read comic novel War, Trill of the Hunt or something like this - they are about Predators I love.When I watch P1 or P2 - they are about Predators I love. That's all. I'm not an expert and I never will. It's too difficult in my situation. I just love it.
You can love Predators, Yautja, Hish or leopards.
I don't care. I want to thank Mr. Perry, because I love his books . His books make
my love Predators/Yautja grow up.
I'm not a little girl, I don't like so aggressive and parenting behaviour. It's so sad and irritating at this same time. I don't need discussion like this. I don't need to prove my right.
So I give up.
I think it's very sad that Mr. Perry must read all this bullshit to find question to him.
Dear Mr. Domino. Thank you. :)
Quote from: SiL on Nov 03, 2009, 04:39:52 AM
Mal you're breaking my balls man. You're breaking my balls.
Sorry, man; collateral damage. You gotta break a few balls to make a... Uh, never mind...
Quote from: Mr. Domino on Nov 03, 2009, 04:51:44 AM
And you don't seem to notice that we're not talking about Michael Myers or James T. Kirk or James Bond, or any other icon here, we're talking about a race of beings. They aren't going to act alike or think alike any more than you or I would. I think reading stories about different Predators who all acted exactly the same would be thoroughly boring.
And you don't seem to notice that you had missed my point entirely.
Dear
keylight-di,
Instead of accusing me (or any other opponent) of being aggressive, why not acknowledge the points I had made?
Dear
maledoro:
Quote from: maledoro on Nov 03, 2009, 12:52:11 PM
why not acknowledge the points I had made?
If you want to. I think I did it before, didn't I? Not "point by point", but I did. O.K. So I try... again...
(Do you really think I'm able to?? much fun...)
Quote from: maledoro
There are tons of Star Trek episodes and films for you to see. All you have to do is substitute "Klingon" with "Yautja", make them less-diplomatic, and imagine them skinning people.
I don't agree. And I don't want to know nothing more about Klingons, I know now. For me it's different AU. Not my story.
Quote from: maledoro
At that point, we knew that they were mysterious. The only knowledge we need is that the people are trying to survive against an unknown creature. The "unknown" is the key. What's it gonna take to outlast the creature?
The "unknown" is the key? For you, maybe. Not for me. I'm this kind of fan who want to know more and more about this what he love. I don't like "unknown" in any aspect very much. What I missing in movies it's knowledge and I can find it in books. That's all. You like mysteriousness. I don't like.
Quote from: maledoro
The point is that the books painted the Preddies as trite sci-fi creatures. Aliens that come to Earth to hunt humans is not a new idea; it's been around since at least the '50s. By adding hunting codes, exotic weapons, a language, etc., the Preddies resemble a certain established alien race. They are no longer unique, but a garden variety alien race. If you feel that the books are the best source, knock yourself out. As you said, it's your personal opinion. But keep in mind that very little of what's shown in the books resembles the creatures that we know and love in the movies. On that note, you really don't like the Preddies; you like some other race that (through licensing) shares the same name. Oh, wait: they're "Yautja" now.
Do you know, what Stan Winston said describing the Predator in Predator 2 and explaining the reason for the varying designs and looks of the Predators.
Quote"Broad concept's the same. The difference is, this is a different individual. A different individual of the same species. As is a snake is a snake, but different snakes are different. Their colorings are different, different parts of their characteristics, their facial structures, subtle differences."
In my opinion this same we can tell about behaviour differences. Preddies (your name) are more mysterious in movies. It's movies right. Time difference between P1, P2 and next... Everything evolves. But for me Preds are unique, despite exploitation this subject. They have potential at all.
Besides movies have limits (budget, technical possibility etc.). Imagination has no limits. :)
Quote from: maledoroNo. All of the Predator and AVP movies were too cerebral for that.
Cerebral? What is cerebral? Movies? In what moment? It's joke? ;D
Quote from: maledoro
I wasn't being sarcastic; I was simply calling a spade a spade. I was also reminding you of what you were really hero-worshipping; that it strays from what the creators of the franchise had envisioned.
You don't like Predators; you like "Yautjas"..
For me Yautja = Predators. For you maybe not. I could call them sons of Paya. Or something else. Names aren't important (for me).
All this discussion make no sens.
1# you can't convince me. I live with Yautja/Predator image much more than 20 years. And I like it. I don't want change your opinion, because I'm tolerant and I can respect it. But let me keep mine. What's up? Why it's so important to you?? You wanna be winner? There are no winners, I'm sorry. ;)
2# it exceeds my language skills. Maybe we should change language on my native. Then I could continue.
And one more thing - if this discussion is only beetwen me and you, I suggest PM. I'm tired of doing fool of myself in public space. ;)
I'm sorry if I injure you using word "aggressive". But I feel like this...
Quote from: SiL on Nov 03, 2009, 05:04:08 AM
Difference being, despite the Arnies being different characters, they're still clearly the same thing, following a set of consistent patterns.
And the Predators in Prey as opposed to the two film Predators weren't? I'm most definitely confused about how showing how a different member of the same species would react to an entirely different situation suddenly having them become clearly
not the same thing.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 02, 2009, 10:24:36 PM
We aren't talking about Aliens here.
If we were, my point would be, "f**k Cameron's portrayal of the Aliens, seriously. Anyone who takes that portrayal over the others in the movies doesn't like the Alien."
...
You were talking about rednecks and samurai, two very human archetypes, and I can't compare the alien we're discussing to a different kind of alien?
Quote from: maledoro on Nov 03, 2009, 02:04:27 AM
I think reading stories about different Predators who all acted exactly the same would be thoroughly boring.
Yet people ask for more Yautja stuff and complain when we get the "Hish".
[/quote]
I don't. I'll admit, I prefer the Yautja concept to the Hish one, but I think they're fully reconcilable with each other (though I will say that the Hish reproductive method seems rather silly to me). I've never minded any of the Hish stuff. Its another interpretation of what the character could be.
Quote from: maledoro on Nov 03, 2009, 12:52:11 PM
Quote from: Mr. Domino on Nov 03, 2009, 04:51:44 AM
And you don't seem to notice that we're not talking about Michael Myers or James T. Kirk or James Bond, or any other icon here, we're talking about a race of beings. They aren't going to act alike or think alike any more than you or I would. I think reading stories about different Predators who all acted exactly the same would be thoroughly boring.
And you don't seem to notice that you had missed my point entirely.
How so? Your point was that the Perrys dared to write a Predator novel that wasn't about the original movie Predator. I'm pointing out that they're not just one individual.
I dunno dudes, maybe these discussions require a new thread? It seems kind of a massive, huge derail.
Anyways,
Mr Perry, I did some art of Billie and her nightmares and it would honour me in all sorts of ways if you'd have a look at it.
Click here for the picture hosted on my LJ (http://pics.livejournal.com/uglynoodles/pic/00001155)
Or here for it on DeviantArt. (http://brokendiode.deviantart.com/art/Billie-s-Nightmares-142405958)
I'm ashamed to admit I've forgotten Billie's eye colour, so for the sake of ease I made them blue.
I've always wanted to do a graphic novel type thing involving Aliens. Maybe I'll give it a go some day.
Hoping there are a few more Aliens/Predators novels to come. :D
Quote from: Mr. Domino on Nov 03, 2009, 07:09:25 PM
I'm most definitely confused about how showing how a different member of the same species would react to an entirely different situation suddenly having them become clearly not the same thing.
It has nothing to do with reacting to a situation here.
It's how they're portrayed as fundamentally very, very different characters to what we see in the movies.
Sure, both groups hunt things. Superman and Batman save people. Doesn't make them the same thing.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 02, 2009, 10:24:36 PM
You were talking about rednecks and samurai, two very human archetypes, and I can't compare the alien we're discussing to a different kind of alien?
Any comparison you made was pretty much irrelevant - Yeah, they did the same thing with the Aliens. And yeah, I disliked it when they did that, too. But what's how the Alien got treated got to do with the Predators?
Quote from: maledoro on Nov 03, 2009, 12:52:11 PM
Your point was that the Perrys dared to write a Predator novel that wasn't about the original movie Predator.
No, the point is that the Perrys wrote a Predator novel with something that shared the same name as the Predators, and a past-time with the Predators, but little to nothing else.
Quote from: keylight-di on Nov 03, 2009, 03:38:16 PM
I don't agree. And I don't want to know nothing more about Klingons, I know now. For me it's different AU. Not my story.
It's the same old story...;)
Quote from: keylight-di on Nov 03, 2009, 03:38:16 PMThe "unknown" is the key? For you, maybe. Not for me. I'm this kind of fan who want to know more and more about this what he love. I don't like "unknown" in any aspect very much. What I missing in movies it's knowledge and I can find it in books. That's all. You like mysteriousness. I don't like.
You like being spoonfed, especially on imitation.
Quote from: keylight-di on Nov 03, 2009, 03:38:16 PM
Do you know, what Stan Winston said describing the Predator in Predator 2 and explaining the reason for the varying designs and looks of the Predators.
Quote"Broad concept's the same. The difference is, this is a different individual. A different individual of the same species. As is a snake is a snake, but different snakes are different. Their colorings are different, different parts of their characteristics, their facial structures, subtle differences."
In my opinion this same we can tell about behaviour differences. Preddies (your name) are more mysterious in movies. It's movies right. Time difference between P1, P2 and next... Everything evolves. But for me Preds are unique, despite exploitation this subject. They have potential at all. Besides movies have limits (budget, technical possibility etc.). Imagination has no limits.
As long as the imagination is put to good use. In the books, it wasn't.
Quote from: keylight-di on Nov 03, 2009, 03:38:16 PMCerebral? What is cerebral? Movies? In what moment? It's joke?
Yep.
Quote from: keylight-di on Nov 03, 2009, 03:38:16 PM
For me Yautja = Predators. For you maybe not. I could call them sons of Paya. Or something else. Names aren't important (for me).
You missed the point. And Paya would hate you for calling the Preddies that.
Quote from: keylight-di on Nov 03, 2009, 03:38:16 PM
What's up? Why it's so important to you?? You wanna be winner? There are no winners, I'm sorry.
I'm not looking for a contest.
Quote from: keylight-di on Nov 03, 2009, 03:38:16 PM
it exceeds my language skills. Maybe we should change language on my native. Then I could continue.
Which is?
Quote from: keylight-di on Nov 03, 2009, 03:38:16 PM
And one more thing - if this discussion is only beetwen me and you, I suggest PM. I'm tired of doing fool of myself in public space.
You're not playing the fool.
Quote from: keylight-di on Nov 03, 2009, 03:38:16 PM
I'm sorry if I injure you using word "aggressive". But I feel like this...
I like aggressive ladies... ;)
Quote from: Mr. Domino on Nov 03, 2009, 07:09:25 PM
How so? Your point was that the Perrys dared to write a Predator novel that wasn't about the original movie Predator. I'm pointing out that they're not just one individual.
That's how you missed that point.
Aeus,
SiL and a few others understood my point.
But then you went and said you preffered Predator 2 over Predator 1. So I retract my understanding (yes, I can do that!), and I'm sitting here with my arms crossed.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm2.static.flickr.com%2F1101%2F794438826_5f340c9c16.jpg&hash=a6d361c4289bc6aa64ad33395c32dbfe30c22c07)
Might as well argue which ice cream is better, vanilla or chocolate. It's a matter of taste, and all the dancing we do is to support our own. We like what we like.
Writers who go into a franchised universe want to tell a story, and unless they are rubber stamps, they want to bring something of their viewpoint to the story; otherwise, why bother? When my daughter and I novelized the AvP graphic novels, the Predator was front and center, and if you are going to have a character occupy the middle of the frame, he/she/it needs to be interesting. If all you want is mystery, then the movies work fine. But it's not the same medium. You can't take a completely visual experience like a movie or a graphic novel and translate it straight across to a novel -- it doesn't work.
Doesn't work the other way, either.
A tale told almost entirely in pictures won't play if you do nothing but try to copy them exactly in prose.
I can usually figure out whodunnit mysteries, so while that's fun, it's not as interesting to me as the whydunnit. Or how. So for me, giving up a little mystery concerning the Predators isn't much price to pay to get the interior.
What the Predator thinks as he kicks ass is simply more interesting to me than him simply kicking ass. I want to know what Darth Vader is thinking in his hyperbaric chamber, and why the Predator come to Earth to hunt humans.
If you are going to have a viewpoint character, you might want to get his or her viewpoint. You can do that in a novel. It's hard to do onscreen or in a comic without using voice-overs.
Some readers will like it, some won't. If you don't like, then you don't have to read it. Enough folks did like it that I got asked back, and the books all sold really well.
I've said this before, and it bears repeating: When you write in a popular universe, you have to do it in a way that is apt to please the majority of readers. There are always going to be hardcore fans who get really into things who -- no matter what you put down -- aren't gonna like it because it doesn't agree with what they want to see.
Trust me on this, you can't please everybody. If this hardcore fan loves something, you can bet the farm that one will hate it, and they will wrangle to the -- metaphorical -- death over piddly stuff that nobody else cares about.
Really. They don't. Most readers aren't interested in things that fanboys love to gush over. (Speaking as a fanboy.)
I'm not going there. You don't get hired to write for a handful of guys who eat, sleep, and breathe this stuff. Can't please them. Some of them -- some of you -- loved the latest incarnation of AvPR. But it would have been better for the franchise if a lot of folks out there in in flyover country had loved it and gone to see it in droves. It didn't kill the franchise, but it didn't win a lot of new converts. It just didn't.
You want what you want, and I'm not blaming you for that. But I want what I want, and enough readers agree with my view that tell me my way works pretty well.
That's how things are. You don't have to like it, but it won't hurt you to understand it.
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 04, 2009, 12:37:25 AM
But then you went and said you preffered Predator 2 over Predator 1. So I retract my understanding (yes, I can do that!), and I'm sitting here with my arms crossed.
You
can, but why would you
want to? I didn't say that I preferred
Predator 2 over
Predator, I said that I liked it more. As far as my recommending either movie to a Predator neophyte, I would recommend the first one any day of the week and twice on Sunday. If I want to indulge in the guilty pleasures of a 1980s (yes, 1990 was the last year of that decade) zeitgeist, I would take refuge in the sanctuary of my TV room and watch the sequel.
Now, none of that has anything to do with the transmogrification of the Preddies to being garden-variety aliens via Dark Horse novels, so there should not be any conflict and you can still get on with knowing that I still detest aforementioned transmogrification of said beings.
Cool?
QuoteBut it would have been better for the franchise if a lot of folks out there in in flyover country had loved it and gone to see it in droves. It didn't kill the franchise, but it didn't win a lot of new converts. It just didn't.
The last thing this franchise needs is converts from AVPRs school of fandom.
Quote from: maledoro on Nov 04, 2009, 12:58:06 AM
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 04, 2009, 12:37:25 AM
But then you went and said you preffered Predator 2 over Predator 1. So I retract my understanding (yes, I can do that!), and I'm sitting here with my arms crossed.
You can, but why would you want to? I didn't say that I preferred Predator 2 over Predator, I said that I liked it more. As far as my recommending either movie to a Predator neophyte, I would recommend the first one any day of the week and twice on Sunday. If I want to indulge in the guilty pleasures of a 1980s (yes, 1990 was the last year of that decade) zeitgeist, I would take refuge in the sanctuary of my TV room and watch the sequel.
Now, none of that has anything to do with the transmogrification of the Preddies to being garden-variety aliens via Dark Horse novels, so there should not be any conflict and you can still get on with knowing that I still detest aforementioned transmogrification of said beings.
Cool?
As long as you're sorry! :D
In entertainment, what matters is the bottom line. And in Hollywood, for a movie to make a profit, it has to earn two and a half times what it cost to make. And, bearing in mind 1980's dollars and ticket prices and today's ticket prices, have a look:
Released
Movie Name
1st Weekend
US Gross
Worldwide Gross
Budget
5/25/1979
Alien
$3,522,581
$80,930,630
$203,630,630
$9,000,000
7/18/1986
Aliens
$10,052,042
$85,160,248
$183,316,455
$17,000,000
5/22/1992
Alien³
$23,141,188
$54,927,174
$158,500,000
$55,000,000
11/28/1997
Alien: Resurrection
$16,474,092
$47,795,018
$160,700,000
$60,000,000
8/13/2004
AVP: Alien Vs. Predator
$38,291,056
$80,281,096
$172,543,519
$70,000,000
Totals
$349,094,166
$878,690,604
$211,000,000
Averages
$69,818,833
$175,738,121
$42,200,000
Released
Movie Name
1st Weekend
US Gross
Worldwide Gross
Budget
6/12/1987
Predator
$12,031,638
$59,735,548
$98,267,558
$18,000,000
11/21/1990
Predator 2
$8,784,943
$28,317,513
$54,768,418
$35,000,000
8/13/2004
AVP: Alien Vs. Predator
$38,291,056
$80,281,096
$172,543,519
$70,000,000
7/7/2010
Robert Rodriguez's Predators
-
-
-
-
Totals
$168,334,157
$325,579,495
$123,000,000
Averages
$56,111,386
$108,526,498
$41,000,000
Do the math and see why the franchise is not as strong as it was.
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 04, 2009, 12:51:23 AM
Writers who go into a franchised universe want to tell a story, and unless they are rubber stamps, they want to bring something of their viewpoint to the story; otherwise, why bother? When my daughter and I novelized the AvP graphic novels, the Predator was front and center, and if you are going to have a character occupy the middle of the frame, he/she/it needs to be interesting. If all you want is mystery, then the movies work fine. But it's not the same medium. You can't take a completely visual experience like a movie or a graphic novel and translate it straight across to a novel -- it doesn't work.
Doesn't work the other way, either.
I'm well aware of that.
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 04, 2009, 12:51:23 AM
A tale told almost entirely in pictures won't play if you do nothing but try to copy them exactly in prose.
In some hands, it could.
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 04, 2009, 12:51:23 AM
I can usually figure out whodunnit mysteries, so while that's fun, it's not as interesting to me as the whydunnit. Or how. So for me, giving up a little mystery concerning the Predators isn't much price to pay to get the interior.
A
little mystery being peeled away is alright, but going at the core with machete is another thing.
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 04, 2009, 12:51:23 AM
What the Predator thinks as he kicks ass is simply more interesting to me than him simply kicking ass. I want to know what Darth Vader is thinking in his hyperbaric chamber, and why the Predator come to Earth to hunt humans.
That's fine, too.
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 04, 2009, 12:51:23 AM
If you are going to have a viewpoint character, you might want to get his or her viewpoint. You can do that in a novel. It's hard to do onscreen or in a comic without using voice-overs.
Sometimes the POV isn't necessary. A third person narrative can still inform us that a Predator speared an Alien because the Alien had killed the Predator's brother. We don't necessarily need Serosa Mouth telling us "I'm gonna get that sucka!"
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 04, 2009, 12:51:23 AM
've said this before, and it bears repeating: When you write in a popular universe, you have to do it in a way that is apt to please the majority of readers.
But, how do we know who the majority are? Years ago, James Cameron claimed that only a small percentage of people who had seen
Alien didn't know about the deleted Cocoon Scene and he had went ahead and created the queen alien. Yet, when leaving the theater, I heard many people of various ages discussing whether or not the queen had contradicted the original life cycle. This was mentioned in books and magazines from 1986 on. Some "tiny percentage".
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 04, 2009, 12:51:23 AM
There are always going to be hardcore fans who get really into things who -- no matter what you put down -- aren't gonna like it because it doesn't agree with what they want to see.
Like what was shown onscreen?
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 04, 2009, 12:51:23 AM
Trust me on this, you can't please everybody.
Well, no!
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 04, 2009, 12:51:23 AM
You want what you want, and I'm not blaming you for that. But I want what I want, and enough readers agree with my view that tell me my way works pretty well.
Gotta go where the money rolls.
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 04, 2009, 12:51:23 AM
That's how things are. You don't have to like it, but it won't hurt you to understand it.
I understand it. I was venting my grievances.
Quote from: maledoro on Nov 04, 2009, 01:28:50 AM
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 04, 2009, 12:51:23 AM
I can usually figure out whodunnit mysteries, so while that's fun, it's not as interesting to me as the whydunnit. Or how. So for me, giving up a little mystery concerning the Predators isn't much price to pay to get the interior.
A little mystery being peeled away is alright, but going at the core with machete is another thing.
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 04, 2009, 12:51:23 AM
If you are going to have a viewpoint character, you might want to get his or her viewpoint. You can do that in a novel. It's hard to do onscreen or in a comic without using voice-overs.
Sometimes the POV isn't necessary. A third person narrative can still inform us that a Predator speared an Alien because the Alien had killed the Predator's brother. We don't necessarily need Serosa Mouth telling us "I'm gonna get that sucka!"
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 04, 2009, 12:51:23 AM
There are always going to be hardcore fans who get really into things who -- no matter what you put down -- aren't gonna like it because it doesn't agree with what they want to see.
Like what was shown onscreen?
Ok, seriously? I know its been a while since I read Prey, but where does it directly contradict the films in terms of Predator behavior?
Quote from: maledoro on Nov 04, 2009, 01:28:50 AM
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 04, 2009, 12:51:23 AM
've said this before, and it bears repeating: When you write in a popular universe, you have to do it in a way that is apt to please the majority of readers.
But, how do we know who the majority are? Years ago, James Cameron claimed that only a small percentage of people who had seen Alien didn't know about the deleted Cocoon Scene and he had went ahead and created the queen alien. Yet, when leaving the theater, I heard many people of various ages discussing whether or not the queen had contradicted the original life cycle. This was mentioned in books and magazines from 1986 on. Some "tiny percentage".
So, let me get this straight, here. Not only did 'many' people who went to your showing of Aliens know about a deleted scene which, to my knowledge, was only really available in the novelization, but then this suddenly becomes the situation everywhere, completely disproving what the filmmaker has told you? Genius, I wish my world worked that way.
Quote from: Mr. Domino on Nov 04, 2009, 02:39:57 AM
Ok, seriously? I know its been a while since I read Prey, but where does it directly contradict the films in terms of Predator behavior?
Go back and read
Prey.
Quote from: Mr. Domino on Nov 04, 2009, 02:39:57 AMSo, let me get this straight, here. Not only did 'many' people who went to your showing of Aliens know about a deleted scene which, to my knowledge, was only really available in the novelization, but then this suddenly becomes the situation everywhere, completely disproving what the filmmaker has told you? Genius, I wish my world worked that way.
So, on the same token you're saying that the only people who knew about it were in my cinema and my cinema only. The conspiracy has been exposed! Yes! We were the only ones who had this sacred knowledge! Come on,
Dom.
Knowledge of the footage came from more than just the novelization. It was in just about every magazine that featured
Alien. It was covered in books that were written about the film. There were alot of materials circulating about
Alien from 1978 to 1980 and they pretty much all had something about that scene. You remember all those books, magazines, and documentaries back then, don'tcha,
Dom?
Quote from: BrokenDiode on Nov 03, 2009, 08:23:19 PM
I dunno dudes, maybe these discussions require a new thread? It seems kind of a massive, huge derail.
Anyways,
Mr Perry, I did some art of Billie and her nightmares and it would honour me in all sorts of ways if you'd have a look at it.
Click here for the picture hosted on my LJ (http://pics.livejournal.com/uglynoodles/pic/00001155)
Or here for it on DeviantArt. (http://brokendiode.deviantart.com/art/Billie-s-Nightmares-142405958)
I'm ashamed to admit I've forgotten Billie's eye colour, so for the sake of ease I made them blue.
I've always wanted to do a graphic novel type thing involving Aliens. Maybe I'll give it a go some day.
Hoping there are a few more Aliens/Predators novels to come. :D
I'm not Mr. Perry but dang those are awesome man! This is just me, but it feels like this thread has gotten outta hand to anyone else?
Yep, nice work, BD. Keep it up. You have talent.
As for venting, it's all good, but you just can't get attached to the idea that the people who do these things are going to put what they think works aside for what you think works.
You aren't typical of the broad array of fans who go to see these movies, and read the comics and novels.
How I know people liked my books is that they went through multiple printings, some of them twenty or so, and I still get little royalty checks on books I wrote decades ago.
It's real simple: Vote with your wallet.
If you'll notice how the most recent movies did, they either barely broke even or didn't -- using the Hollywood formula.
Far as I can tell, my Aliens, Predators, and AvP books have all earned out, save the most recent one, and it's too soon to tell. I expect it will.
You don't like my books or how I write 'em, your business. Don't buy them.
Do you have any idea how the recent Aliens and/ or Predator books have sold (the ones you didn't write I mean) out of curiosity?
Quote from: maledoro on Nov 04, 2009, 03:19:26 AM
Quote from: Mr. Domino on Nov 04, 2009, 02:39:57 AMSo, let me get this straight, here. Not only did 'many' people who went to your showing of Aliens know about a deleted scene which, to my knowledge, was only really available in the novelization, but then this suddenly becomes the situation everywhere, completely disproving what the filmmaker has told you? Genius, I wish my world worked that way.
So, on the same token you're saying that the only people who knew about it were in my cinema and my cinema only. The conspiracy has been exposed! Yes! We were the only ones who had this sacred knowledge! Come on, Dom.
Knowledge of the footage came from more than just the novelization. It was in just about every magazine that featured Alien. It was covered in books that were written about the film. There were alot of materials circulating about Alien from 1978 to 1980 and they pretty much all had something about that scene. You remember all those books, magazines, and documentaries back then, don'tcha, Dom?
Well, for one thing, I was not saying, or meaning to imply, that yours was the only theater that had anyone with any knowledge of the scene. Of course there were fans of the first film going to see the second. But as ludicrous as it sounds for you for nobody to know about that scene, I think its just as ludicrous for
everyone to know about that scene (and yes, I realize, you never said 'everyone'). As I've said ad nauseum all over the place on here, the
fans make up a very small percentage of who actually goes to see these movies. I could certainly understand some people having prior knowledge, until someone shows me some proof, I have to go with the filmmaker whose track record proves he at least somewhat knows what he's doing on this one.
EDIT: This is ridiculous. We've hijacked Mr. Perry's thread, and gone way off course on a discussion that has absolutely no meaning, because we're debating subjective topics. I'll reread Prey when I get the chance, and then we can create a separate thread where we can go back and forth with me saying 'they're different individuals' and you saying 'but they're different'. Until then, I'm through debating this.
Quote from: Mr. Domino on Nov 04, 2009, 01:19:45 PM
Well, for one thing, I was not saying, or meaning to imply, that yours was the only theater that had anyone with any knowledge of the scene. Of course there were fans of the first film going to see the second. But as ludicrous as it sounds for you for nobody to know about that scene, I think its just as ludicrous for everyone to know about that scene (and yes, I realize, you never said 'everyone'). As I've said ad nauseum all over the place on here, the fans make up a very small percentage of who actually goes to see these movies. I could certainly understand some people having prior knowledge, until someone shows me some proof, I have to go with the filmmaker whose track record proves he at least somewhat knows what he's doing on this one.
I opened the first point with "On the same token", which means "If I were to use your logic". As for him "knowing what he's doing", there are alot of questions on that, such as the change of spelling of the Company's name, etc.
Quote from: Mr. Domino on Nov 04, 2009, 01:19:45 PMEDIT: This is ridiculous. We've hijacked Mr. Perry's thread, and gone way off course on a discussion that has absolutely no meaning, because we're debating subjective topics. I'll reread Prey when I get the chance, and then we can create a separate thread where we can go back and forth with me saying 'they're different individuals' and you saying 'but they're different'. Until then, I'm through debating this.
Also, before you create that separate thread, please keep in mind that I am not arguing (nor had ever argued) that the preddies are all the same and not different individuals. Either you understand that, don't twist my words, or not change the point.
No way for me to track sales on books other than my own. My daughter's seem to sell pretty well. As far as I can tell by looking at the number of printings, the books do well.
How to tell is, usually there is a list of numbers at the bottom of the copyright page that looks like this on a first printing: 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
Every time the book goes back to press, the number at the end goes up one, so if the sequence goes like this:
16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7,
then the book is in its seventh printing.Typically such printings are an additional 10-15,000 copies.
Time it gets to twenty printings, you probably have a quarter million copies shipped. Depends on the initial run, aka laydown. (A direct movie tie-in usually ships more the first run, but doesn't go back to press as much.)
Last time I looked, nobody's books other than mine, my daughter's, or our collaborations had as many reprintings, so I'm guessing ours are still the best-selling ones of the bunch.
Neat, never noticed that stuff.
Looks like Alan Dean Foster's Alien Omnibus has been reprinted ten times (Well, up until 2004), with two reprints in 1994.
The Omnibus has been reprinted 10 times? :o Wonder how they went as single volumes?
It doesn't say - Just gives the original printing dates of the originals. :(
But given the omnibus came out in '93 I don't think they would've bothered continuing selling them as individual releases, or at least not as much. I've only ever seen them in second hand shops, and in one comic shop in England. And even then I think that was second hand.
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 04, 2009, 09:05:25 PM
Every time the book goes back to press, the number at the end goes up one, so if the sequence goes like this:
16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7,
then the book is in its seventh printing.Typically such printings are an additional 10-15,000 copies.
When it gets to "0", does it explode?
;)
It implodes, creating a black hole that sucks all the creativity out of future works. This happened at Fox in the mid-90s.
I tried to warn you guys about those books. But did you listen? Nooooo....
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv338%2Fmaledoro%2FMusic%2520Smilies%2Fe8fe6c1d.gif&hash=e7a833ecbc8274633d2f112677d61be97cad8904)
None of my Alien novelisations had the 10 9 8 7 thing. I think they're printed in the UK, so maybe it's different there?
AvP did have it, but it went all the way down to 1.
Quote from: SM on Nov 09, 2009, 12:28:41 AM
AvP did have it, but it went all the way down to 1.
Soak it in water and cut the green wire...
:o
Quote from: SM on Nov 09, 2009, 12:28:41 AM
None of my Alien novelisations had the 10 9 8 7 thing. I think they're printed in the UK, so maybe it's different there?
AvP did have it, but it went all the way down to 1.
My British editions show "impressions," at the top of the copyright page, along with a date, thus:
Second impression 1994
Third impression 1994
Fourth impression 1995
and so on. Leastways the Millennium Editions do it thus. If you have one going to 1, then that's a first edition.
Um, I dunno if anybody else is getting these we-know-who-your-ISP-and-browser-are messages when they drop by as am I, but I'm wondering why somebody is bothering. My blog's stat tracker gets that and more at the touch of a button.
Is there a point I"m missing?
I mean, I, uh, already know what browser I'm using and the brand of computer and all. You don't need to keep telling me ...
You mean that little graphic at the bottom of Maledoro's posts? Or something else?
Quote from: SM on Nov 11, 2009, 10:49:38 PM
You mean that little graphic at the bottom of Maledoro's posts? Or something else?
Yep.
What's the point? It's the interwebz.
...Mal thought you should know.
It's just a funny thing on the internet. It's been round a while. Nothing to worry about.
...or is it...?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv338%2Fmaledoro%2FEvil%2520Smilies%2F7667252b.gif&hash=8b316a51f2f7b6db5f3a4a69f88f73a75b26f834)
No, it isn't.... ;D
I have a stat counter on my blog. It tags posters and -- if I want to check -- gives their ISP, OS, browser, location to the nearest node; it offers a map, how many times they've visited, how long they stayed, and all sorts of other things: where they came from, the path they used, search engines. I don't put this info up, but I can access it.
Since anybody with a web page or blog can use this kind of program, and since anybody who surfs leaves tracks unless they use a masking program like Vidalia's onion and Tor, or some commercial service that misdirects, the idea of Big Brother watching you isn't much of a surprise. I was just wondering why anybody bothered to stick up notice.
Quote from: steveperry on Nov 15, 2009, 05:19:47 PM
I was just wondering why anybody bothered to stick up notice.
SM summed it up:
Quote from: SM on Nov 12, 2009, 12:00:45 AM
What's the point? It's the interwebz.
How did you know I was wearing bunny slippers? :-[
There's a built-in camera in the graphic.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv338%2Fmaledoro%2FEvil%2520Smilies%2Ffd028a3a.gif&hash=d1303268c8779956f87e97b3f51c4e90ad9661de)
You know those "watermark" network logos that are on the lower-right corner of your TV screen? They can see you, too. Ask Griker; he knows.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv338%2Fmaledoro%2FEvil%2520Smilies%2F612c5e56.gif&hash=1466cb14c68459011fbcac622f5b9102c7294055)
Oh God.
Now now folk. Steve wont be aware of the craziness that is Griker.
I'm glad Griker posts here. While I may respect Mal or SM or SiL more, Griker makes me laugh. And that's a very important thing.
Quote from: Mr. Domino on Nov 19, 2009, 06:40:44 PM
I'm glad Griker posts here. While I may respect Mal or SM or SiL more, Griker makes me laugh. And that's a very important thing.
Well that makes one of us, I guess. :P
Two.
That SM guy is a tool though.
Quote from: SM on Nov 19, 2009, 09:45:19 PM
Two.
That SM guy is a tool though.
Hey, I never said I respected you. I just said I respected you
more than Griker.
THAT's a relief.
Steve, did you ever read the script for Predators? What did you think?
It's on the forums if you're interested.
Exactly - it is here (the first post in this thread):
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=26756.0
here (download):
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=26756.0;attach=224
and here (download):
http://www.sendspace.com/file/pha7i6
I also would like to know your opinion about this script. It aroused much controversy in this community.
You know, thats a good question..
How does the Yautja concept fit with Super Predators? Would you say that this is a renegade clan or, rather like the Hish concept, an alternate universe?
-Rakai'Thwei
Quote from: keylight-di on Dec 14, 2009, 08:30:10 PM
Exactly - it is here (the first post in this thread):
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=26756.0
here (download):
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=26756.0;attach=224
and here (download):
http://www.sendspace.com/file/pha7i6
I also would like to know your opinion about this script. It aroused much controversy in this community.
It's a good script. I think the alternate Dutch ending is a little too cute, but whoever wrote it did a nice job. It's close to the first movie, which was itself just an updated versions of "The Most Dangerous Game," with ETs. If they shoot it right, it could be a good action picture.
The super-pred business makes sense in the context, but I'd lose the hellhounds and birds, they aren't necessary.
Off topic here, but my two cents worth:
Go see Avatar
You have never, ever seen anything like this on a screen. Yeah, it's Dances With Wolves in space. And, just like in Bambi, I was rooting against the white men, but it will melt your eyes and blow your sensawunda out of your ears. Every penny Cameron spent is up on the screen and it is mind-bogglng. Truly.
Well, you know I was kinda on the fence about the whole thing ( ;D), but I suppose if Steve Perry is telling me to see it, then I guess I should...
Quote from: Mr. Domino on Dec 19, 2009, 04:01:13 AM
Well, you know I was kinda on the fence about the whole thing ( ;D), but I suppose if Steve Perry is telling me to see it, then I guess I should...
Hearing that he liked it rather surprises me, seeing as he is the man who invented the Yautja concept which I love.
Hmm... Gives me much to think about but I do agree with the idea of the hounds and hawks, they are not needed.
I just hope that this is just one clan and not the entire race. That would suck if it was the entire Predator race doing this new thing.
-Rakai'Thwei
Actually, I was talking about Avatar, but I was also a little surprised that he liked the Predators script. Not too surprised, though, since I thought it was pretty decent. I just really hope they change the color of the blood. I know its a little thing, but it bugs the hell out of me.
Quote from: Mr. Domino on Dec 19, 2009, 05:46:55 AM
Actually, I was talking about Avatar, but I was also a little surprised that he liked the Predators script. Not too surprised, though, since I thought it was pretty decent. I just really hope they change the color of the blood. I know its a little thing, but it bugs the hell out of me.
Ditto.. Ditto.
-Rakai'Thwei
QuoteYou have never, ever seen anything like this on a screen.
This is very true and worth the admission.
Unfortunately, we have
heard it all before.
I'd have actually preferred more of the scriptment injected into the actual movie Avatar, but it was good enough on its own.
Quote from: steveperry on Dec 19, 2009, 02:04:09 AM
Off topic here, but my two cents worth:
Go see Avatar
You have never, ever seen anything like this on a screen. Yeah, it's Dances With Wolves in space. And, just like in Bambi, I was rooting against the white men, but it will melt your eyes and blow your sensawunda out of your ears. Every penny Cameron spent is up on the screen and it is mind-bogglng. Truly.
Avatar Was, in my opinion, the best film this year.
But on topic, I recently picked up your Alien books Mr. Perry and I have a few questions.
1. When you did the part with the Space Jockey, where did you come up with the physical description? I understand that alot can be learned from it's short appearance in
Alien, but what you did made the Space Jockey much more.
2. The sequence about Billie's parents and their encounter with the Aliens on Rim. Is this supposed to be LV-426? I'm confused because their encounter is supposed to come after the LV-426 incident but it's almost the exact same scenario.
That's because the novelizations are based off of the comics that had Newt and Hicks in them.
Billie and Wilks are their replacements in the comics (post Alien 3) in the newer edited editions, and the Perry's had to work away around Billie and Wilks backstory on their own. The comics didn't try as hard and even left some characters from the 426 squad the same (Drake, Frost, and Vasquez) for the squad on Rim. Naturally, this is a distraction to anybody who has seen Aliens.
They also at least attempted to explain the Ripley situation in the third arc of the series. Something the comic didnt even bother with.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Feb 12, 2010, 04:47:41 AM
That's because the novelizations are based off of the comics that had Newt and Hicks in them.
Billie and Wilks are their replacements in the comics (post Alien 3) in the newer edited editions, and the Perry's had to work away around Billie and Wilks backstory on their own. The comics didn't try as hard and even left some characters from the 426 squad the same (Drake, Frost, and Vasquez) for the squad on Rim. Naturally, this is a distraction to anybody who has seen Aliens.
They also at least attempted to explain the Ripley situation in the third arc of the series. Something the comic didnt even bother with.
I'm in no way bashing the books at all. In fact, they are on my top ten list of favorites. I'm just confused on some of the details.
I didn't think you were.
Its just most people don't know that the comics came first, and that the novels were based in their "scripts".
Thus things being similar are somewhat deliberate because the comics initial run featured Hicks and Newt.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Feb 14, 2010, 06:18:05 AM
Thus things being similar are somewhat deliberate because the comics initial run featured Hicks and Newt.
It's a good thing that they were "remastered" into "Wilks" and "Billie", and their adventures were on "Rim". That's much more honest (and less trite) than resorting to the "alternate universe" cheat that's been plaguing comics (and other media) for decades.
Quote from: maledoro on Feb 15, 2010, 02:24:41 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Feb 14, 2010, 06:18:05 AM
Thus things being similar are somewhat deliberate because the comics initial run featured Hicks and Newt.
It's a good thing that they were "remastered" into "Wilks" and "Billie", and their adventures were on "Rim". That's much more honest (and less trite) than resorting to the "alternate universe" cheat that's been plaguing comics (and other media) for decades.
If I understand what you mean, it's like the Star Trek phenomenon right? With six or seven different Enterprises. Right? Is that what your talking about?
Quote from: Locke on Feb 16, 2010, 12:23:41 AM
If I understand what you mean, it's like the Star Trek phenomenon right? With six or seven different Enterprises. Right? Is that what your talking about?
I don't know... What "six or seven different
Enterprises" do you mean?
Quote from: maledoro on Feb 15, 2010, 02:24:41 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Feb 14, 2010, 06:18:05 AM
Thus things being similar are somewhat deliberate because the comics initial run featured Hicks and Newt.
It's a good thing that they were "remastered" into "Wilks" and "Billie", and their adventures were on "Rim". That's much more honest (and less trite) than resorting to the "alternate universe" cheat that's been plaguing comics (and other media) for decades.
I sense sarcasm.
Its never officially stated what Fox's take on the Aliens comic series is, but most fans do seem to throw it into its own timeline outside of the movies.
Ultimately, DH tried, but not particularly hard. The bantam novelist tried a little harder, but I'm also sure they probably couldn't get too far away from the comics for licensing issues.
Quote from: maledoro on Feb 16, 2010, 01:56:14 AM
Quote from: Locke on Feb 16, 2010, 12:23:41 AM
If I understand what you mean, it's like the Star Trek phenomenon right? With six or seven different Enterprises. Right? Is that what your talking about?
I don't know... What "six or seven different Enterprises" do you mean?
You mentioned the "other universe" excuse some authors use for things that don't make sense. I was talking about the multiple universes that are in Star Trek. I was trying to understand what you were talking about. Sorry for the confusion :D
Quote from: Kimarhi on Feb 16, 2010, 02:57:57 AM
I sense sarcasm.
No. I
really am glad that they had made an effort to sidestep an alternate universe explanation.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Feb 16, 2010, 02:57:57 AM
Its never officially stated what Fox's take on the Aliens comic series is, but most fans do seem to throw it into its own timeline outside of the movies.
I don't care who decides that it's in another universe (whether it's Fox or the fans), I'm just saying that it's an old cheat no matter who does it.
Quote from: Locke on Feb 16, 2010, 03:59:47 AM
You mentioned the "other universe" excuse some authors use for things that don't make sense. I was talking about the multiple universes that are in Star Trek. I was trying to understand what you were talking about. Sorry for the confusion :D
I always thought that the main characters were in "our" universe. Granted, they would visit other universes, but it's like:
Fan 1: "Wait a minute! Didn't that guy die last season?"
Fan 2: "Nah! Well, uh,
yeah."
Fan 1: "Dude! WTF?!"
Fan 2: "Okay. In 'our universe', he died. The
Nincompoop entered another universe where that universe's
Nincompoop was mostly destroyed. They boarded the ship and found one survivor who was that universe's Ensign Skippy. Since they were missing an Ensign Skippy of their own, they asked him if he would like to join their crew and..."
Fan 1: "Dude! Just shut up! My head hurts..."
The confusion is all
mine, as I don't follow
Trek.
:)
Quote from: maledoro on Feb 16, 2010, 12:05:02 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Feb 16, 2010, 02:57:57 AM
I sense sarcasm.
No. I really am glad that they had made an effort to sidestep an alternate universe explanation.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Feb 16, 2010, 02:57:57 AM
Its never officially stated what Fox's take on the Aliens comic series is, but most fans do seem to throw it into its own timeline outside of the movies.
I don't care who decides that it's in another universe (whether it's Fox or the fans), I'm just saying that it's an old cheat no matter who does it.
Quote from: Locke on Feb 16, 2010, 03:59:47 AM
You mentioned the "other universe" excuse some authors use for things that don't make sense. I was talking about the multiple universes that are in Star Trek. I was trying to understand what you were talking about. Sorry for the confusion :D
I always thought that the main characters were in "our" universe. Granted, they would visit other universes, but it's like:
Fan 1: "Wait a minute! Didn't that guy die last season?"
Fan 2: "Nah! Well, uh, yeah."
Fan 1: "Dude! WTF?!"
Fan 2: "Okay. In 'our universe', he died. The Nincompoop entered another universe where that universe's Nincompoop was mostly destroyed. They boarded the ship and found one survivor who was that universe's Ensign Skippy. Since they were missing an Ensign Skippy of their own, they asked him if he would like to join their crew and..."
Fan 1: "Dude! Just shut up! My head hurts..."
The confusion is all mine, as I don't follow Trek.
:)
Yeah, that's what I was talking about. I'm not a Trekie either, I just know a little about the series.
But, still, that's what hack writers do when they're painted into a plot corner. It's just a modern form of Deus ex Machina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_ex_machina).
Quote from: maledoro on Feb 18, 2010, 01:51:18 AM
But, still, that's what hack writers do when they're painted into a plot corner. It's just a modern form of Deus ex Machina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_ex_machina).
Yeah, I can see where your coming from. The fact that Mr. Perry didn't do it is one of the reasons I appreciate him as an author.
Pretty sure I read that Senor Perry would've preferred to keep Hicks and Newt, but couldn't.
Quote from: SM on Feb 19, 2010, 12:14:48 AM
Pretty sure I read that Senor Perry would've preferred to keep Hicks and Newt, but couldn't.
Was it a legal ordeal?
No just a personal preference 'cos he liked Aliens and didn't care much for them being killed off in Alien3.
(From memory - he may well refute that)
Quote from: SM on Feb 19, 2010, 01:15:50 AM
No just a personal preference 'cos he liked Aliens and didn't care much for them being killed off in Alien3.
(From memory - he may well refute that)
I hate to put it like this, but would you consider the books to be somewhat of an alternative story-line to aliens? Putting Wilks and Billie as Hicks and Newt, respectively.
Some books and comics are okay, but they have no bearing whatsoever over the film continuity. Call it an alternative timline if you like. Personally I call them "The Banned Histories".
Quote from: SM on Feb 19, 2010, 03:26:40 AM
Some books and comics are okay, but they have no bearing whatsoever over the film continuity. Call it an alternative timline if you like. Personally I call them "The Banned Histories".
That's what Maledoro and I were talking about. The "alternative timeline" or "other universe" excuse for things that don't fit. But I do like to think of them as almost like a "what if" scenario, the "what if" being if Hicks and Newt survived, albeit several years after the events of Aliens.
Quote from: Locke on Feb 19, 2010, 03:54:56 AM
That's what Maledoro and I were talking about. The "alternative timeline" or "other universe" excuse for things that don't fit. But I do like to think of them as almost like a "what if" scenario, the "what if" being if Hicks and Newt survived, albeit several years after the events of Aliens.
By that, all that's changed is your label. For example, the "What If? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_If_(comics))" comics, novels, etc., all have to rely on the Good Ol' Alternate Universe Cheat in order to work.
Quote from: maledoro on Feb 19, 2010, 12:47:30 PM
Quote from: Locke on Feb 19, 2010, 03:54:56 AM
That's what Maledoro and I were talking about. The "alternative timeline" or "other universe" excuse for things that don't fit. But I do like to think of them as almost like a "what if" scenario, the "what if" being if Hicks and Newt survived, albeit several years after the events of Aliens.
By that, all that's changed is your label. For example, the "What If? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_If_(comics))" comics, novels, etc., all have to rely on the Good Ol' Alternate Universe Cheat in order to work.
I know. But I do hate to think of it like that. I do agree with you about hating the "alternate universe" excuse.
Quote from: Locke on Feb 19, 2010, 10:52:32 PM
But I do hate to think of it like that.
♪ Don't stop believing. Hold on to that feeling... ♫
Quote from: steveperry on Dec 18, 2009, 06:00:42 AM
The super-pred business makes sense in the context, but I'd lose the hellhounds and birds, they aren't necessary.
Thank you Steve, somebody who's on my side about losing the hunting dogs and Birds, not sure why the hell Predator would need trained animals in the first place.
Also, just wanted to say I bought 'Predator turnabout' not had time to read it yet, still going though 'Aliens DNA' but, its going to be interesting in what you come up with, without going from a comic, though I do like 'Aliens nightmare asylum' with it also being the first novel I have ever read and everything, I was 12 at the time.
Any plans on future books, though I have been away from the forum in over a year, I have noticed there's not been any new novels out since 2008.
What inspired you to write Turnabout? That's by far the best book that I have purchased under you. All I have left are the 2 AvP books after Prey.
Spoiler
Also, would you agree that it seemed kind of rushed, the way you killed off Regal? In my opinion, It would've been a little nice if Sloane and Regal had gotten some dialogue from each other, but that's just my perspective.
WOW!!!! I cant believe it. I loved reading your books! And reading them again, and again. Thats why I love this site. A chance to talk to the guys that made it all happen. And still dropping by after almost 3 years, thats true dedication to your fans.
A question for Mr. Perry, and I hope he replies.
Since you and Stephani invented the Yautja concept which has been popular for many years, and since a majority of the concepts have been adapted into the Alien vs Predator films, games and of course, a plehora of novels and comics.. my question is this:
Now that it has been established in Rodriguez's PREDATORS that the Super Predators are a different clan than the ones we've seen in Predator, Predator 2, AvP and AvP-R, would you say that there are many Yautja clans which operate differently from each other? Are there more clans who follow the traditional means of hunting or are there more like the Super Predator clans who do it more for the sake of killing and not so much for the honor and thrill?
-Rakai'Thwei
Been a while since I dropped by -- browser messed up and I got busy and didn't fix it. Lazy in my old age.
I can't really speak to some of the ins and outs of the uber-plotting in the A, the V, or the AvP series. If you don't want to do the research on an existing world, it's much easier to make a new one up.
My most recent foray into was Turnabout, and that one an original idea -- using "original" loosely. I offered up four or five storylines for an empty slot they had, and IIRC, we wound up combining two of them into the book. My daughter was going to write it, but got into a time-crunch with her Aliens book, so I wound up writing it instead.
Movie universes tend to hold the movies up as canon and the EU stuff in comics or books or whatnot as less so, but sometimes, they like an idea and borrow it. Some of the material in a book might find its way into a movie, and thus becomes more established.
As far as I know, nobody sat down and worked out a backstory on any of the movies past what was necessary to get the pictures made originally. Predator II stuck that xenomorph skull into the mix, but I don't know if that was before or after Chris Warner and Mike and Randy came up with the AvP concept.
The Wilks/Billie/Newt/Hicks stuff had to do with legal rights and that it was later spoken to was probably as confusing as it was enlightening. Was what it was, and what we had to work with.
The book market is soft right now, and I haven't heard about any new ones coming out in the A, V, or AvP universe. If the next movie gets made and does okay, I expect there will be more of a demand for new novels and graphic novels.
QuoteAs far as I know, nobody sat down and worked out a backstory on any of the movies past what was necessary to get the pictures made originally.
Dan O'Bannon had the Alien's backstory licked; Ridley had a few ideas. The Thomas brothers worked out quite a bit of the Predator backstory.
Quotebut I don't know if that was before or after Chris Warner and Mike and Randy came up with the AvP concept.
It was done in response to it, as a joke.
A couple quick questions Mr. Perry, the creator of the predator (I can't remember his name at his moment) said once that the design of the predator was based on the rastafarian warrior. Did you take that into account in any way when building a Predator culture/mythos? What was your main source of inspiration for the Yautja? And finally, what is it like working with a co-author, did you have any creative diffrences? If so, how did you resolve them?
Quote from: DeadCities on Mar 19, 2010, 05:44:14 PM
A couple quick questions Mr. Perry, the creator of the predator (I can't remember his name at his moment) said once that the design of the predator was based on the rastafarian warrior. Did you take that into account in any way when building a Predator culture/mythos? What was your main source of inspiration for the Yautja? And finally, what is it like working with a co-author, did you have any creative diffrences? If so, how did you resolve them?
I saw the dreadlocks, but no, I didn't consider the Preds to be Rasta-men from another world. I thought about a warrior/hunter culture, and there were three scense: the single-combat scene with Ahnahl; the don't-shoot-the-pregnant-woman scene in II; and the Pred leader giving Danny Glover the old pistol, and allowed that the culture had some kind of honor. I thought the samurai aspect of being willing to die played, so we tossed that together and came up with what we came up with.
In writing collabs, sometimes there is a senior and junior writer and the senior gets the final say. In collab with those of equal or nearly-equal skill, it's common to agree going in who gets the final draft; otherwise you can kick a project back and forth forever. Some teams feel they need to agree on everything and they won't let the project go until that happens. It depends on the writers.
My daughter and I didn't have any creative differences that I can recall.
Quote from: steveperry on May 27, 2007, 06:01:18 PM
Quote from: Meathead320 on May 26, 2007, 03:53:42 PM
Steve, in Female-War, when you described the "Mother-Queen", the description sounded very different than what was in the Dark horse comic.
I never really like the Dark-horse art depicting her, and she looked too much like a Cricket.
The version you described, in my mind looked more like a overgrown version of the Queen we saw in the movie Aliens, and I liked your description much better.
Just wondering what you were envisioning when you described her in the book.
I remember you said 8 meters tall, and four arms (like a normal Queen), and in the DH comic she looked like an insect, and did not even have arms.
It's a different form. I have to paint a picture with words, which are poor tools compared to pictures. Everybody brings a different viewpoint to a story; you work with what you got, do the best you can.
I don't recall the exact timeline, I might have seen A2 by then and incorporated that into my description.
Cool. Well, even though words are poor tools you did a great job.
What I imagined based on your description was Far better than what ended up on the page of the comic.
Mr. Perry I would like to ask a quick couple questions.
After seeing the new AVP movies and when you see the new Predator movie, will you feel inclined to make another Aliens vs Predator book, or Predator book using the concepts that are being introduced or will you rather do books on your pre-existing Predator world?
Um...I think he may have been murdered.....
http://io9.com/5545676/thundercats-writer-stephen-perry-missing-in-florida
Quote from: CEP on May 24, 2010, 05:41:05 PM
http://io9.com/5545676/thundercats-writer-stephen-perry-missing-in-florida
Methinks that is not "our" Steve Perry.
That's certainly grim.
I'll never be able to watch an episode of Thundercats the same way again. :(
I hope it doesn't leave you up in arms.
Urrgh. :D
If you're still grieving, I'll give you a shoulder to cry on.
Quote from: maledoro on May 24, 2010, 10:46:47 PM
Quote from: CEP on May 24, 2010, 05:41:05 PM
http://io9.com/5545676/thundercats-writer-stephen-perry-missing-in-florida
Methinks that is not "our" Steve Perry.
They both had some ties to the Thundercats. LOL. Sorry. ;D
Quote from: CEP on May 28, 2010, 07:34:36 PM
They both had some ties to the Thundercats. LOL. Sorry. ;D
Don't be sorry. I didn't want to see you go to pieces.
;)
Quote from: CEP on May 28, 2010, 07:34:36 PM
Quote from: maledoro on May 24, 2010, 10:46:47 PM
Quote from: CEP on May 24, 2010, 05:41:05 PM
http://io9.com/5545676/thundercats-writer-stephen-perry-missing-in-florida
Methinks that is not "our" Steve Perry.
They both had some ties to the Thundercats. LOL. Sorry. ;D
Still alive, folks. Actually, while I wrote a lot of kidvid at the same time the other Steve was doing ThunderCats, I never wrote any of those. He was Stephen J. Perry, I'm Stephen C. Perry. My TV credits are here:
http://home.comcast.net/~perry1966/tvcomics.html
As for doing more books in the series and whether or not the new movies will be an influence, I dunno. I saw the trailer for the new Predator movie, and if they stick anywhere close to the script I read, it ought to be good -- at least, it was a good script.
Question will probably be moot for a while -- at the moment, far as I know, nobody is publishing new titles in Aliens, Predator, or AvP. They didn't ask me to do do the tie-in for the new movie -- though they should have -- and I don't know who is writing that.
Thanks
Quote from: steveperry on May 29, 2010, 09:53:23 PM
Still alive, folks. He was Stephen J. Perry, I'm Stephen C. Perry.
Glad to know that you're still among the living.
:)
(I told you, guys!)
I hope you're not looking for us to give you a hand.
:D
Quote from: Master Chief on May 30, 2010, 01:56:49 AM
I hope you're not looking for us to give you a hand.
Hey! Don't elbow me!
QuoteCHUCK NORRIS - KARATE COMMANDOS:
"Brain Wipe"
(Story)
"The Master of Sound"
(with Michael Reaves)
Righteous
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDTjMooYTBE
When I play football, and one or two of the guys ready a big shot, one of them always shouts "Steve Perry".
Never understood why.
Holy crap, glad you're not dismembered! That's a horrible story, honestly, I wonder what in the hell happened?
On a different note, how about a consolidated "Steve Perry's Answers" thread, so we know what's already been asked and what hasn't? I feel like a tool asking him something he's already answered 34 pages back. ;D My suggestion, hope to see it, would be a cool read.
That's a brilliant idea. I can't remember which page it's on, but I'd really hate to have to sift through the whole thread to see how Steve Perry pronounces Yautja. An answers sticky would be great!
Page 1 it was, my friend ;D
I loved the comment that said "GET TO DA YAUTJAAA!"
Apparently its pronounced "Yah-oot-cha"
Quote from: MrSpaceJockey on Aug 08, 2010, 02:14:13 AM
Apparently its pronounced "Yah-oot-cha"
And yet spelled as if pronounced, "yout-cha". Since we use Roman letters to represent the non-Roman (and non-human) word, wouldn't "Yaootja" be more accurate?
Probably because it looks kinda silly. But nonetheless, I am no Predator expert.