Some of those are terrifyingly bad.
^ Glass half empty.
And some of those were terrifyingly good! Wow, was that a blast to flip through! :)
The good ones I'd already seen. I was shocked at how bad some of the other alternatives that hadn't quite seen the light of day were.
Not a comment on the quality of the art, just the concepts themselves.
Idea is great but they probably picked not the best movie for it
(https://scontent.fiev20-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/116577371_332712034788228_8987755651798439119_o.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=hnS47cidXeQAX9OMbeG&_nc_ht=scontent.fiev20-1.fna&oh=810440b61516e2bfbc9e690f71ed6ad9&oe=5F4DC4F0)
Huh
Quote from: SiL on Aug 04, 2020, 11:06:44 AM
The good ones I'd already seen. I was shocked at how bad some of the other alternatives that hadn't quite seen the light of day were.
Not a comment on the quality of the art, just the concepts themselves.
Well, as that famous phrase teaches us...
PredAlien beauty is in the eye of the beholder! :)
Yes, which is why I haven't posted any needlessly dismissive comments about you liking some of the designs :)
Quote from: Kradan on Aug 04, 2020, 11:11:28 AM
(https://scontent.fiev20-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/116577371_332712034788228_8987755651798439119_o.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=hnS47cidXeQAX9OMbeG&_nc_ht=scontent.fiev20-1.fna&oh=810440b61516e2bfbc9e690f71ed6ad9&oe=5F4DC4F0)
Huh
Fox had a period where they were thinking of the PredAlien using Predator technology...
The very first draft described it as having a Predator body.
The Straus Bros said it was a battle to try and get it to be 80-20 Alien to Predator rather than 20-80.
Quote from: SiL on Aug 05, 2020, 08:04:01 AM
The very first draft described it as having a Predator body.
At least it was offed within 5 minutes in that draft...small victories.
But to be fair, I do think it would have been a massive cop-out to have a crossover without the PredAlien. But like most of the things to do with the AvP films, it just wasn't done correctly.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 05, 2020, 08:02:50 AM
Quote from: Kradan on Aug 04, 2020, 11:11:28 AM
(https://scontent.fiev20-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/116577371_332712034788228_8987755651798439119_o.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=hnS47cidXeQAX9OMbeG&_nc_ht=scontent.fiev20-1.fna&oh=810440b61516e2bfbc9e690f71ed6ad9&oe=5F4DC4F0)
Huh
Fox had a period where they were thinking of the PredAlien using Predator technology...
But it doesn't look like a Predator technology - it looks like a pointy stick to me. I actually would've not minded Predalien using something primitive like that (even why would he ? he already has claws and tail and teeth). I think it somewhat fits with "back to basics", "primitive" and "tribal" nature of Predators and also goes into DNA reflex more than just appearance. It's not unprecedented - we saw Abomination decapitating people in AvP 2010 (I know game came out 3 years later but whatever) Hell, I would've even like to see Predalien trying to capture locals or Wolf in woods with these boyscout traps a la Dutch-style. I mean, it would've been crazy and ridiculous, but at least it would've been ... Idk, interesting to watch. I don't think it would've made movie worse than it already was
My real gripe with that design is that it looks more like Hulk than like Alien
Personally the effects of the DNA reflex should be slight, like the runner to the original creature.
The idea that Predator DNA is somehow more "dominant" and therefore causes more of a hybrid alien is garbage.. to me anyway.
Quote from: 426Buddy on Aug 05, 2020, 11:21:10 AM
The idea that Predator DNA is somehow more "dominant" and therefore causes more of a hybrid alien is garbage.. to me anyway.
Nah, I like it. Different strokes, I guess
I don't necessarily like the idea of more "dominant" DNA but I think what it can inherit has the possibility of being interesting when done right. I think it can go further than just some difference in appearances. It's why I find Dust to Dust interesting. I think the fan theory that Big Chap inherited some attraction to Lambert as an explanation for the "rape" to be intriguing.
Would I want to see it go as far as the Aliens using tools? I'm genuinely not sure.
On a narrative level it should be less of an Alien and more the "final boss". It should look distinct and be able to do all this wild shit as a result of the Predator DNA. On a narrative and visual level it needs to be distinct because this is the thing you've built up to. It needs to be an abomination because if it's just Big Chap but bigger you're blue balling the audience.
I'm very much against it using tools but a missed opportunity is the Predalien attempting vocal mimicry. That's something which can either be really scary for the Humans or get the drop on the Predator. Like that could be a whole sequence and it kind of sucks they didn't do anything with that.
Just another way for predators to diminish the Alien even more.
The alien is supposed to be the perfect organism but you throw preds in the mix and that goes right out the window. I like the concept of AvP because I like both franchises but the alien almost always gets the shaft when it comes this crossover.
We should have had big chap talking and using computers and look more human then. Oh I forgot the predators have "dominant DNA". Excuse me, my eyes just rolled right out of my head.
Quote from: SuperiorIronman on Aug 05, 2020, 02:49:17 PM
I'm very much against it using tools but a missed opportunity is the Predalien attempting vocal mimicry. That's something which can either be really scary for the Humans or get the drop on the Predator. Like that could be a whole sequence and it kind of sucks they didn't do anything with that.
I like the sound of it !
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 05, 2020, 12:19:14 PM
Would I want to see it go as far as the Aliens using tools? I'm genuinely not sure.
Well, that's the difference of how far you wanna go with the concept. For me "going too far" is Predalien using cloaking device or shoulder cannon. But sticks and rocks ? I'm good with it
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 05, 2020, 12:19:14 PM
I think the fan theory that Big Chap inherited some attraction to Lambert as an explanation for the "rape" to be intriguing.
I always found that a fascinating angle to take as well.
Quote from: 426Buddy on Aug 05, 2020, 02:56:47 PM
The alien is supposed to be the perfect organism.
Hopefully I won't be running from torches and pitchforks after this one, but I always took this "perfect organism" Alien 1979 label as a wee bit of hyperbole. For example, how perfect can an organism be when it relies on other organisms to reproduce.
*hides and takes cover*
Doesn't change the fact that they have taken something that was intended to be Alien, Unknowable, incredibly strong, and such a threat that it could wipe out humanity and turned it into a punching bag for the predators to look good against. Not only that but over time the predator keeps being gifted with new abilities to one up the Alien, like acid resistant blood and dominant DNA.
I'm of two minds on this, there is a rule of cool factor regarding AvP that is hard to resist. Sometimes they portray the Alien as able to hold its own but by and large they are just bug fodder for the hunters. The match-up does not benefit the Alien or the Alien franchise in any way. It perhaps even contributes to the idea that the beast is cooked.
The PredAlien doesn't need any special, wild abilities to stand out or be a boss fight. Grid could've been a satisfying boss fight and his distinguishing feature was "waffle pattern".
Quote from: 426Buddy on Aug 05, 2020, 09:00:35 PM
Doesn't change the fact that they have taken something that was intended to be Alien, Unknowable, incredibly strong, and such a threat that it could wipe out humanity and turned it into a punching bag for the predators to look good against. Not only that but over time the predator keeps being gifted with new abilities to one up the Alien, like acid resistant blood and dominant DNA.
Well unless you're dealing with a blue-collar crew of a commercial towing spaceship, or you have a plot device like a maximum security prison with an honor system, the Alien's strength is not as much individual, but in their numbers, when you dealing with battle-tested Colonial Marines or Predators right?
QuoteI'm of two minds on this, there is a rule of cool factor regarding AvP that is hard to resist. Sometimes they portray the Alien as able to hold its own but by and large they are just bug fodder for the hunters. The match-up does not benefit the Alien or the Alien franchise in any way. It perhaps even contributes to the idea that the beast is cooked.
Not that I agree with this, but from that perspective you could equally blame Aliens for that too.
Why would Predators bother hunting Aliens if the Alien's only strength against them was in numbers?
Aliens are powerful, sneaky hunters on their lonesome.
Going up against bullets is one thing, bladed weapons and martial arts is another. I dont have a problem with relying on ranged weaponry.
Also the creatures in Aliens were still portrayed as intelligent and deadly. They were not really fodder in the film, more so in the EU explosion that followed Aliens.
None of that really rises to the level of subjugation the predator holds of the Alien in most stories.
Quote from: SiL on Aug 05, 2020, 09:32:20 PM
Why would Predators bother hunting Aliens if the Alien's only strength against them was in numbers?
Hence fighting with spears, swords, guantlet blades. Single shot projectiles. Make it challenging.
Bear hunters don't go bear hunting with automatic weapons. #NoSport.
Not to be a downer as I'm an AvP fan too, just in a mood today for some reason.
Quote from: 426Buddy on Aug 05, 2020, 09:50:27 PM
Not to be a downer as I'm an AvP fan too, just in a mood today for some reason.
No worries.. I've been there! :)
But even though I feel their strength is in their numbers, I also agree with you that there should be limits, and imagine most of us never want this gif to encapsulate AvP:
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GentleJaggedFlea-size_restricted.gif)
While I think the original AvP does a fair job at handling the actual species traits of the AvP fight, I do think it still needs to go further. Same for a lot of the EU. The Alien generally gets shafted when it comes to the conflict (to be fair the Aliens pure is guilty of it too). The Predators shouldn't want to engage the Aliens at proper close quarters. They shouldn't survive it. It should be about keeping the Aliens are some degree of range (combi-stick range, perhaps?) so that they don't get sprayed by acid, or playing it smart, not just brawling. The Aliens should be trying to be stealthy (like Grid when he took out Chopper, or attempted to pounce on Celtic before the netgun) so they can close that range.
Yet to see a single good Predalien design.
Lots of talented people at ADI but these concepts..... off the mark.
Predalien should look as if Giger himself designed it. All these Predalien designs look like something out of a Spawn comic book.
Take Big Chap, make it taller, add the predator mandibles then play around with the overall silhouette (the back pipes, the shape of the head should be different..) Predators don't have lips so the Predalien shouldn't have lips like Big Chap, etc...
And no dreadlocks. >:(
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Aug 05, 2020, 10:00:33 PM
Quote from: 426Buddy on Aug 05, 2020, 09:50:27 PM
Not to be a downer as I'm an AvP fan too, just in a mood today for some reason.
No worries.. I've been there! :)
But even though I feel their strength is in their numbers, I also agree with you that there should be limits, and imagine most of us never want this gif to encapsulate AvP:
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GentleJaggedFlea-size_restricted.gif
I promise you, this fight lasted exactly as the scene did, a few seconds.
As for the Predalien design, I always hated how much muscle/flesh bits with the addition of Predator skin coloring they added to the design like in AVPR. While not perfect, the design of the AVP2010 Predalien is a step in the right direction, visible size and power but in line of the biomechanical concept that Giger laid out for the world and visual storytelling of the Alien DNA being dominant over the host DNA, using traits that would allow it to adapt to fighting the host's species. The Dorman design is also a great vision of the creature.
Yeah, in regards to my Chet love and the subsequent beatings I take, I'm definitely in the minority. :laugh:
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/b1a61b0753febf8f0ec06cb35aa0232b/tenor.gif?itemid=14017033)
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Nov 03, 2020, 04:17:38 PM
Yeah, in regards to my Chet love and the subsequent beatings I take, I'm definitely in the minority. :laugh:
https://media1.tenor.com/images/b1a61b0753febf8f0ec06cb35aa0232b/tenor.gif?itemid=14017033
I mean I admit, I do like how the translucent dome returned to the alien design so that was cool. I also liked the shape of the head that indicated a young queen. The beefed up tail is also a plus to show taken trait of the Predator musculature system.
But yeah, too much yellow on a creature that should blend in the shadows and yellow flesh on a creature design that stray away from the biomechanical design.