Disney in talks to buy Fox. What could this mean for Alien and Predator?

[The Kurgan]

You can have a great aliens film without Ripley and at this point its time we had one.

Yes.  You can have a great film without Ripley.  We've had 4 Alien related films since 1992 without Ripley, or 5 if you count Alien Resurrection.  So what are you even talking about?  It's time we had an Alien film with Ripley.  More specifically, post-Aliens, and featuring Hicks Newt and some Bishop parts.

I'm up for Ripley and non-Ripley films.  There is room for both, and I believe both can be done well.  The problem with ALL non-Ripley Aliens films is that someone is brought in to play the trope of a female protagonist.     It drives me bananas!  If they're going to bring in another female protagonist, give us the real thing - Ripley!

But how would you built a story around Ripley\Newt\Bishop without making them into hyper competent guerrilla fighters who fight a private war against WY/Xenomorphs? I think it would turn them from everyday normal people into some kind of action hero. Which is a sharp turn from what made them great to begin with.

You would go from ordinary people stuck in a bad situation to Die Hard 23 territory, where the same extraordinary situation happens to the same people over and over again.

[Perfect-Organism]

You can have a great aliens film without Ripley and at this point its time we had one.

Yes.  You can have a great film without Ripley.  We've had 4 Alien related films since 1992 without Ripley, or 5 if you count Alien Resurrection.  So what are you even talking about?  It's time we had an Alien film with Ripley.  More specifically, post-Aliens, and featuring Hicks Newt and some Bishop parts.

I'm up for Ripley and non-Ripley films.  There is room for both, and I believe both can be done well.  The problem with ALL non-Ripley Aliens films is that someone is brought in to play the trope of a female protagonist.     It drives me bananas!  If they're going to bring in another female protagonist, give us the real thing - Ripley!

But how would you built a story around Ripley\Newt\Bishop without making them into hyper competent guerrilla fighters who fight a private war against WY/Xenomorphs? I think it would turn them from everyday normal people into some kind of action hero. Which is a sharp turn from what made them great to begin with.

You would go from ordinary people stuck in a bad situation to Die Hard 23 territory, where the same extraordinary situation happens to the same people over and over again.

There are certain life situations which define who you become.  In the case of Ripley and friends, it would be almost certain that they would SEEK a confrontation with the Aliens knowing WY's motivations, whereas with Die Hard, Bruce Willis's character continues to CHANCE upon disaster.  That's where the difference lies.  Die Hard is implausible, bordering on comedy, whereas another encounter for Ripley is highly probable.

Moreover, if Alien 3 is retconned, it will only be Ripley's third encounter not the 23rd.

Hicks is already an action hero.  Ripley could be a reluctant hero.  Perhaps she's been on the run from W-Y all these years and Hicks finds her to tell her that he needs help in dealing with some W-Y madness?  Or in the hands of a competent director, Ripley could go the route of Linda Hamilton in Terminator 2.  Sarah Connor was a vastly different character between James Cameron's two Terminator films, and yet compelling.

[The Kurgan]

You can have a great aliens film without Ripley and at this point its time we had one.

Yes.  You can have a great film without Ripley.  We've had 4 Alien related films since 1992 without Ripley, or 5 if you count Alien Resurrection.  So what are you even talking about?  It's time we had an Alien film with Ripley.  More specifically, post-Aliens, and featuring Hicks Newt and some Bishop parts.

I'm up for Ripley and non-Ripley films.  There is room for both, and I believe both can be done well.  The problem with ALL non-Ripley Aliens films is that someone is brought in to play the trope of a female protagonist.     It drives me bananas!  If they're going to bring in another female protagonist, give us the real thing - Ripley!

But how would you built a story around Ripley\Newt\Bishop without making them into hyper competent guerrilla fighters who fight a private war against WY/Xenomorphs? I think it would turn them from everyday normal people into some kind of action hero. Which is a sharp turn from what made them great to begin with.

You would go from ordinary people stuck in a bad situation to Die Hard 23 territory, where the same extraordinary situation happens to the same people over and over again.

There are certain life situations which define who you become.  In the case of Ripley and friends, it would be almost certain that they would SEEK a confrontation with the Aliens knowing WY's motivations, whereas with Die Hard, Bruce Willis's character continues to CHANCE upon disaster.  That's where the difference lies.  Die Hard is implausible, bordering on comedy, whereas another encounter for Ripley is highly probable.

Moreover, if Alien 3 is retconned, it will only be Ripley's third encounter not the 23rd.

Hicks is already an action hero.  Ripley could be a reluctant hero.  Perhaps she's been on the run from W-Y all these years and Hicks finds her to tell her that he needs help in dealing with some W-Y madness?  Or in the hands of a competent director, Ripley could go the route of Linda Hamilton in Terminator 2.  Sarah Connor was a vastly different character between James Cameron's two Terminator films, and yet compelling.

I think it would be the opposite. Ripley would not get Newt in danger to wage a privat war against a overwhelmingly influential corporation. She would not risk leaving her surrogate daughter alone while she is dead or in jail.

Hicks was a competent soldier but hardly a Jason Bourne. There is just a limit to what two people and a child can believable accomplish without losing it's ground in realism. Even in T2 all they tried to accomplish was assassinating one engineer and destroy one more or less civilian lab.

[Perfect-Organism]

The Kurgan, you are right that anything could be done badly.  But with that attitude, why bother waking up in the morning?

Ripley doesn't have to drag Newt into anything.  What if a Ripley finds out that Newt went off on her own on a crusade of some sort?  Would Ripley not react?

[Eldritch_DM]

The Kurgan, you are right that anything could be done badly.  But with that attitude, why bother waking up in the morning?

Ripley doesn't have to drag Newt into anything.  What if a Ripley finds out that Newt went off on her own on a crusade of some sort?  Would Ripley not react?

I mean, if Newt did survive and was traumatized about the events of Hadley's Hope, managed to get through but still struggle with her PTSD, it does sound like something she might do. Though we have an actual comic with similar basis.

I mean... I kinda wanted to see Newt grow up, go postal on some Aliens and WY for revenge. 

[The Kurgan]

The Kurgan, you are right that anything could be done badly.  But with that attitude, why bother waking up in the morning?

Ripley doesn't have to drag Newt into anything.  What if a Ripley finds out that Newt went off on her own on a crusade of some sort?  Would Ripley not react?

Iam not saying you could not work of the basic idea and make a enjoyable movie out of it. I just feel you could achieve more going for a different route.
It's all personal preference of course.

She would. That would be an angle that could work. Maybe have Newt traumatized after LV-426, unable to find her place in the world and go from there. But still, i think pulling it off with Newt/Ellen/Hicks the right way is harder than just make a good movie with all new characters. Maybe even without WY.

[Perfect-Organism]

The Kurgan, you are right that anything could be done badly.  But with that attitude, why bother waking up in the morning?

Ripley doesn't have to drag Newt into anything.  What if a Ripley finds out that Newt went off on her own on a crusade of some sort?  Would Ripley not react?

Iam not saying you could not work of the basic idea and make a enjoyable movie out of it. I just feel you could achieve more going for a different route.
It's all personal preference of course.

She would. That would be an angle that could work. Maybe have Newt traumatized after LV-426, unable to find her place in the world and go from there. But still, i think pulling it off with Newt/Ellen/Hicks the right way is harder than just make a good movie with all new characters. Maybe even without WY.

I mostly agree with you.  And of course it is all personal preference.  There's a reason why the original Aliens comics were so successful.  People were totally invested in Newt's character.  It made sense then, and it still makes sense.

The area where we disagree is sort of splitting hairs.  You would prefer to have an all new film with new characters.  I would prefer to have both.  Having a Ripley - Hicks-Newt film does not negate the need for a film without those characters.  I would be super stoked for both.  The only reason to do the Ripley film first is due to the merciless hands of time.  The clock is ticking.  Actors are getting older.  Windows of opportunity are slowly closing.

The Kurgan, you are right that anything could be done badly.  But with that attitude, why bother waking up in the morning?

Ripley doesn't have to drag Newt into anything.  What if a Ripley finds out that Newt went off on her own on a crusade of some sort?  Would Ripley not react?

I mean, if Newt did survive and was traumatized about the events of Hadley's Hope, managed to get through but still struggle with her PTSD, it does sound like something she might do. Though we have an actual comic with similar basis.

I mean... I kinda wanted to see Newt grow up, go postal on some Aliens and WY for revenge. 

High-5 Badwolf-00!!   

The great thing about bringing in Sigourney Weaver and friends for another Aliens film, is that it has the potential for the public to look at the series in a fresh new way.  It justifies a higher budget.  If such a film is successful, which it would have a high probability, then the budget for an upcoming non-Ripley film could potentially be much higher.  As it stands, one can only imagine that Ridley Scott's next film would probably be done on a vastly diminished budget.

[The Old One]

The discussion's gone on over and over at this point for so long;
that it actually has me in the headspace of wondering,
when the inevitable comes and Sigourney Weaver
passes away will this discussion end?

If that sad day should come,
will you feel proud of yourself for assisting in the prevention effort of us getting one more great Aliens film with Ripley? 
Look in the mirror on that day and say Well Done!

I'd be happy Alien³ wasn't retconned out of continuity for some family friendly trite.
But sad Sigourney Weaver had to die to make it a certainty it'll never happen.

[Perfect-Organism]

The discussion's gone on over and over at this point for so long;
that it actually has me in the headspace of wondering,
when the inevitable comes and Sigourney Weaver
passes away will this discussion end?

If that sad day should come,
will you feel proud of yourself for assisting in the prevention effort of us getting one more great Aliens film with Ripley? 
Look in the mirror on that day and say Well Done!

I'd be happy Alien³ wasn't retconned out of continuity for some family friendly trite.
But sad Sigourney Weaver had to die to make it a certainty it'll never happen.

Wow.  The Cold One.

[XenoHunter99]

IIRC, somewhere in the EU or unfilmed A:3 scripts, Bishop was revealed to be a super-combat badass, standing on the hull of a ship in the vacuum of space zapping xenos left and right.. I expect someone here who is plugged into all taht a lot more deeply than I am will remember.

[Voodoo Magic]

The discussion's gone on over and over at this point for so long;
that it actually has me in the headspace of wondering,
when the inevitable comes and Sigourney Weaver
passes away will this discussion end?

If that sad day should come,
will you feel proud of yourself for assisting in the prevention effort of us getting one more great Aliens film with Ripley? 
Look in the mirror on that day and say Well Done!

I'd be happy Alien³ wasn't retconned out of continuity for some family friendly trite.
But sad Sigourney Weaver had to die to make it a certainty it'll never happen.

Wow.  The Cold One.

Ha, that's quite clever. Hopefully she can laugh about it.

[Corporal Hicks]

IIRC, somewhere in the EU or unfilmed A:3 scripts, Bishop was revealed to be a super-combat badass, standing on the hull of a ship in the vacuum of space zapping xenos left and right.. I expect someone here who is plugged into all taht a lot more deeply than I am will remember.

That'd be Gibson's first Alien 3 draft IIRC.

[The Old One]

I like the idea of seeing what a Synthetic can do when forced to be combative,
(ISOLATION, Samuels)
or one designed for such a purpose.
What I like less is the idea of retroactively making Bishop OP.

[Eldritch_DM]

I like the idea of seeing what a Synthetic can do when forced to be combative,
(ISOLATION, Samuels)
or one designed for such a purpose.
What I like less is the idea of retroactively making Bishop OP.

I can agree with this. Bishop was cool in his own way. If they make an Android go full Rambo, let it be a different character.

Personally... as out there as this sounds... I'd love to see Jeri on the big screen. Jeri was my favorite synth from the comics.

[XenoHunter99]

IIRC, somewhere in the EU or unfilmed A:3 scripts, Bishop was revealed to be a super-combat badass, standing on the hull of a ship in the vacuum of space zapping xenos left and right.. I expect someone here who is plugged into all taht a lot more deeply than I am will remember.

That'd be Gibson's first Alien 3 draft IIRC.

Thanks, Hicks