Alien - Inferno's Fall

Started by felix, Nov 27, 2021, 01:10:15 PM

Author
Alien - Inferno's Fall (Read 64,069 times)

BlueMarsalis79

BlueMarsalis79

#210
Good to know, thank you Engineer.

SiL

SiL

#211
Quote from: Engineer on Aug 17, 2022, 11:30:13 PM
Quote from: SiL on Aug 17, 2022, 07:27:14 PM
Quote from: Still Collating... on Aug 17, 2022, 03:51:07 PM
Quote from: SiL on Aug 15, 2022, 08:23:14 AMWeren't the RPG maps taken from SM's designs?

Yeah, that irked me as well when I saw it. I know certainly that a big part of the map was his work, if not the whole thing, don't know how much Clara added to that, but it's a shame that SM didn't get mentioned there.
... someone else got credited? SM not getting credit for his maps is par for the course but crediting someone else is trash by everyone involved.

I'm suddenly glad I haven't picked up the RPG.

SM's name is in the core rule book. Under the "special thanks to" credits. Clara started with his map, hence his "special thanks to" credit then expanded on the map to what it is in the book. Beyond that, anything else behind the scenes related to how he was credited exactly, I have no idea, but nonetheless he wasn't exactly uncredited, his name is there.
What a pleasant change. Thank you!

Engineer

Engineer

#212
Quote from: SiL on Aug 17, 2022, 11:40:03 PM
Quote from: Engineer on Aug 17, 2022, 11:30:13 PM
Quote from: SiL on Aug 17, 2022, 07:27:14 PM
Quote from: Still Collating... on Aug 17, 2022, 03:51:07 PM
Quote from: SiL on Aug 15, 2022, 08:23:14 AMWeren't the RPG maps taken from SM's designs?

Yeah, that irked me as well when I saw it. I know certainly that a big part of the map was his work, if not the whole thing, don't know how much Clara added to that, but it's a shame that SM didn't get mentioned there.
... someone else got credited? SM not getting credit for his maps is par for the course but crediting someone else is trash by everyone involved.

I'm suddenly glad I haven't picked up the RPG.

SM's name is in the core rule book. Under the "special thanks to" credits. Clara started with his map, hence his "special thanks to" credit then expanded on the map to what it is in the book. Beyond that, anything else behind the scenes related to how he was credited exactly, I have no idea, but nonetheless he wasn't exactly uncredited, his name is there.
What a pleasant change. Thank you!

Clara is always good about pushing for people to get their due credit. She got my name credited in the core rule book too in the same section. But I don't think she had much say in how those credits were displayed, that'd be on Free League I suppose.

SiL

SiL

#213
Yes, that's down to publishers.

Xiggz456

Xiggz456

#214
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Aug 17, 2022, 06:34:20 PMIt is... very unexpected and brings the whole thing down, even setting aside the fact it seemingly contradicts other materials, and undermines Alex White's excellent work...

Even purely narratively it is difficult, because you get the sense the monsters can do whatever whenever required, perhaps it needs another read to take in. 

I know you're going to not love this answer but if I recall correctly, the RPG mentions that different strains of Pathogen lead to different mutations. From neomorphs to abominations to body Bursters (Gibson aliens).

In this story
Spoiler
it seemed more neomorphic with a bit of traditional Xeno mixed in. Perhaps a certain android has had a hand in this though.
[close]

VeteranSergeant

VeteranSergeant

#215
Quote from: Wompdonkey on Aug 16, 2022, 05:23:30 PMI like Zula and don't think she's been written too well in the past. I liked Defiance more than most people on this site it seems

I don't really have any problems with Zula as a character, but she's just too fundamentally flawed.  It should be an interesting framework for a character. This disabled Colonial Marine full of regrets and desperate to prove herself after getting badly injured in her very first combat drop.

But the way the story of Defiance is framed around Zula just makes her... silly. Professional militaries never worry about the Sunk Cost Fallacy.  Also, professional militaries know that soldiers get killed or maimed in battle. It's literally part of the job. So, no matter how much it costs to train a Colonial Marine, if that Marine gets blown up in their first battle, the Corps moves on, and trains a replacement.

Which works both ways. Zula Hendricks would have been medically separated and shifted off to the Veterans Administration. If the Corps believed she could serve in some kind of non-combatant role, or maybe the contract is a "federal service" contract and she gets sent off somewhere to be put behind a desk doing data entry or something.   What the government wouldn't do is go to the time and expense of having surgeons fix her, only to send her back out to strenuous duty where she is likely to get broken again, where they have to have surgeons take the time and expense to fix her again. The Marine officer literally comes in, berates her for costing them a ton of money, then the Corps sends her back out to cost them more money? Nevermind how ridiculous the scene is with the officer scolding her for getting blown up by artillery, why is this future government so bad at accounting? Also, who was shooting at them? The officer and her NCO mention "bugs" but apparently they are bugs with mortars?

The whole concept for Defiance is stupid, which made it hard for me to really get into it. If Zula is the protagonist, the story needed a more intelligently written way to get her involved in the action. As it was written, it felt like one person wrote a story, and then somebody else came and inserted a protagonist they'd imagined up, who was a small-framed woman who wanted to prove she was as good as everyone else, but also she was physically disabled.

I was a Marine for ten years. Carried a combat load and a radio for much of it. I've got a bad back and two bad knees because of it, lol. What most people don't realize is the most important part of being a Marine is not the ability to pull a trigger and hit a target. It's to carry a shitload of weight for a long ass time, and then still be able to pull a trigger and hit things after you've been exhausted and sore for hours or even days.

So how do you do this intelligently? You have to reframe the story around something where she makes sense as the protagonist. Maybe Zula had been a co-pilot in the Colonial Marines and was medically separated out of the Corps after her dropship crashed, so she took a low level job as an orbital ferry pilot because low/no gravity was easier on her injuries. Then, she gets wrapped up in things beyond her control when the Davises' mission goes bust. But having her clomping around pretending to still be a Marine in body armor or heavy EVA suits, only with a crippling spinal injury to boot, is beyond silly. They needed to pick a character for Zula. Is she the Action Protagonist, or your "Crippled Woman Desperate to Prove Herself?"

Then the subsequent stories for Zula Hendricks seem to forget about her back injury entirely.

Also, apparently Ripley is no longer the winner of the "Worst Luck Always Encountering the Alien" award.  Also, how many times was the Alien encountered between the events of Alien and Aliens? So much for the ECA Rep saying "Never recorded once in over 300 surveyed worlds." Was it recorded on all of the other 300 worlds? Is their reporting and record-keeping system that bad? The Zula Hendricks "continuity" is probably one of the worst things in the garbled mess that is the Alien "canon." I'd be happy if she just went away at this point.

Quote from: Still Collating... on Aug 17, 2022, 10:45:10 PMBut no, the magical goo can do anything, why care about consistency and logical changes, explanations etc.   
I mean, you literally just described the plot twists of Prometheus and Covenant. Magical Goo is unfortunately inextricably tied to the Alien franchise at this point.

Wompdonkey

Wompdonkey

#216
I really enjoyed your breakdown of Zula. I don't agree with every point, but I really appreciated the character breakdown from someone who served.

The premise for the new game that was announced around San Diego comic con definitely sounds like a Zula story, so we'll see if she finally gets a proper story that people can unanimously enjoy. She might not be going anywhere is why I bring that up.
 

xShadowFoxX

xShadowFoxX

#217
So I read it again.. for the third time. And I'm kind of annoyed. The book, to me, doesn't really hold up with a second or even third read through. There's more to pick up and analyze.. the characters are still great but thinking it through.. I'm dropping my score from 7 to 6 which is below average over here.

TheBATMAN

TheBATMAN

#218
About 70 pages in. Finding it a slog so far. The 'Knot' and its associated characters are not really standing out for me at all.

Not a Zula fan either. Wish she had been kept to the comics. I didnt actually mind Defiance for the most part but I just couldn't buy the amount of xeno encounters between Alien and Aliens. I wish the comics were a different continuity to the novels.

ScaryMinds

ScaryMinds

#219
For anyone that is interested, the book has sold out on Amazon Oz, was just about to order. Got the short story collection "Bug Hunt" instead.

Wompdonkey

Wompdonkey

#220
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Aug 23, 2022, 09:06:49 AMAbout 70 pages in. Finding it a slog so far. The 'Knot' and its associated characters are not really standing out for me at all.

Not a Zula fan either. Wish she had been kept to the comics. I didnt actually mind Defiance for the most part but I just couldn't buy the amount of xeno encounters between Alien and Aliens. I wish the comics were a different continuity to the novels.

While I like Zula as a character, her inclusion is a lie to sell more copies and to act like this ties into the EU. The Jackals are not important to the story at all.

Also, I did not care about The Knot either. They aren't interesting. For all the focus on them, they have no bearing on anything going forward. Or in this book for that matter. They exist to get stuck in the mine and find the ruins.

Nelostic

Nelostic

#221
What the ruins?
Engineer's
Or
Drukathi's?

BlueMarsalis79

BlueMarsalis79

#222
Clara Carija says to call the
Spoiler
Prowler in the EVAC scenario a Catcher instead
[close]
as it is not intended to be the same creature from AFE.

Nelostic

Nelostic

#223
Engineer's
Or
Drukathi's
Is in this book?

Wompdonkey

Wompdonkey

#224
Quote from: Nelostic on Aug 28, 2022, 11:51:17 PMEngineer's
Or
Drukathi's
Is in this book?


Engineers. I kinda doubt Drukathi are canon.

AvPGalaxy: About | Contact | Cookie Policy | Manage Cookie Settings | Privacy Policy | Legal Info
Facebook Twitter Instagram YouTube Patreon RSS Feed
Contact: General Queries | Submit News