Just out of curiosity, how does this look like it's "going back to the roots"? This is the phrase we've heard used the most to describe this film, from everyone from the Bros. Strause, (repeatedly & extensively), to Tom Rothman, (head of Fox), to various cast & crew on the film, ETC. HOWEVER, nothing in the movie even look remotely like the original films;l in fact, I think it's safe to say AVP-R is going further from "the roots," than ever before:
-Characters. Original films, "Alien/Aliens/Predator/Predator 2," all had ADULT characters with unique professions/character arcs, involving motivations, and were played by, with the exception of Predator, talented actors. AVP-R has a bunch of Colorado hicks in a hick town who, instead of piloting deep-space ore refineries, deliver pizza
-Story. The original films all has original, classic stories of suspense and horror. Even the first AVP had a better plot than this. AVP-R seems to have no coherent narrative, and amounts to a bunch of unrelated incidents of people running around being attacked by aliens/predators in their hick town.
-Locations. All of the previous Alien/Predator films had visually stimulating and detailed, well-conceived locations. Nostromo, Hadley's Hope, Fury 161, the Auriga, South American jungle, war-torn 1997 LA, Antarctica..now an unbelievably bland Colorado town, (which, like most productions shot in Canada, is bland as only a Canada-based production can be), and is poorly designed, shot and edited, from everything we've seen so far, (which is more than enough).
-Themes. The Alien films all were more than met the eye, (especially the first two), and dealt with themes of sexuality, corporate maleficence, family, the nature of man, ETC. Even the first two Predator's had government conspiracy angles, making our "protectors," just as dangerous to the heroes as the Predator itself. AVP-R is obviously absent of all this more complex layering and metaphor in exchange for BAS-ASS chaotic gore and teenagers waggling their boobies at each other, (and possibly, the aliens)
Subtlety- The original films all had a fair amount of physiological horror and Lovecraftian unease. Alien and Aliens weren't gory at all; they established how destructive the creatures were, then let your mind fill in the blanks. AVP-R, well..does not. I'm very impressed with the CGI gore, though. Oh wait, no I'm not. ::)
-The cast and crew of the first Alien films were top-notch people who loved the craft and art of film, and who had genuinely interesting things to say in their work. Predator 1/2 also had the benefit of Stan Winston, Alan Silvestri, great cinematography, ETC. AVP-R has a bunch of 3rd and 4th rate actors who've been in a couple of 2nd-tier TV shows, a guy from the OC, the screenwriter of "Shaft," the composer of "Fast and the Furious 3," and two-first time directors who aspire to be the guy that did "300." Oy.
-The creatures themselves. The Original Alien/predator films obviously defined how aliens and predators looked and behaved. AVP-R gives us the worst/cheapest-looking aliens ever, a Predator that's anorexic and doesn't even begin to have the character and charisma that Kevin Peter Hall endowed it with, and a PredAlien that looks like something from a d-level parody of "Alien." The creatures looked better 30 years ago.
Overall, I don't see how AVP-R is closer to the roots. When they Strausi say this, I think they mean that after ONE, (count it, ONE), PG-13 film, they're going back to being rated-R, (which in this day and age, seems to mean excessive gore and swearing instead of a plot or actual horror). And to be perfectly honest, after watching those Reelz.com interviews with the Strausi, I don't think they know what made Alien or Predator appealing in the first place. ???
Is this just me...?
I'll wait until I see the movie first to judge.
I lost all interest at Colorado hicks in a hick town.
Quote from: Remonster on Nov 20, 2007, 10:47:44 PM
I lost all interest at Colorado hicks in a hick town.
Doesn't change the fact that he's right on most things based on the current information...
Quote from: Remonster on Nov 20, 2007, 10:47:44 PM
I lost all interest in Colorado hicks in a hick town.
Fixed...
When they say "back to the roots", I think they mean in the more shallow ways.
Predator vision is back to blue.
Med kit is back.
Eye flash.
Original cloak effect.
Sounds effects are back.
Gore is back.
The hive is back (we haven't seen a full fledged hive since '86!)
Army vs Aliens (like marines)
More intense action.
We follow the Predator around more, similar to Predator 2.
That is how it is supposedly back to the originals. They paid attention to all the nip-picky whining from AVP.
Well that's true. I just wish they'd taken the more fundamental stuff as well.
There is obviously a problem here. That problem is that you, Robotpo, you pathetic fool, do not realize that the Bros. are infallible and that it is you who is misunderstanding their words.
When they said they were going back to the roots, they obviously meant that they were going into the roots of someone's arse, and pulling out whichever ideas were hardcore and badass enough to suit their superior (compared to yours) tastes.
You... baboon! >:(
^^ Yeah, it's probably what he says. They had me fooled, though...
WoW, Thats some pretty hard words there mate :-\
Quote from: DB on Nov 20, 2007, 10:59:52 PM
There is obviously a problem here. That problem is that you, Robotpo, you pathetic fool, do not realize that the Bros. are infallible and that it is you who is misunderstanding their words.
When they said they were going back to the roots, they obviously meant that they were going into the roots of someone's arse, and pulling out whichever ideas were hardcore and badass enough to suit their superior (compared to yours) tastes.
You... baboon! >:(
^^ Yeah, it's probably what he says. They had me fooled, though...
:D Lol...
Quote from: Robotpo on Nov 20, 2007, 10:42:23 PM
-Characters. Original films, "Alien/Aliens/Predator/Predator 2," all had ADULT characters with unique professions/character arcs, involving motivations, and were played by, with the exception of Predator, talented actors. AVP-R has a bunch of Colorado hicks in a hick town who, instead of piloting deep-space ore refineries, deliver pizza
The crew in Alien were probably hicks (truck drivers usually are) but it was the acting that sold it. I expect these people in AVP-R to overact as usual.
Quote-Locations. All of the previous Alien/Predator films had visually stimulating and detailed, well-conceived locations. Nostromo, Hadley's Hope, Fury 161, the Auriga, South American jungle, war-torn 1997 LA, Antarctica..now an unbelievably bland Colorado town, (which, like most productions shot in Canada, is bland as only a Canada-based production can be), and is poorly designed, shot and edited, from everything we've seen so far, (which is more than enough).
LA is not that interesting of a location. Agree with your other points though.
Quote-Themes. The Alien films all were more than met the eye, (especially the first two), and dealt with themes of sexuality, corporate maleficence, family, the nature of man, ETC. Even the first two Predator's had government conspiracy angles, making our "protectors," just as dangerous to the heroes as the Predator itself. AVP-R is obviously absent of all this more complex layering and metaphor in exchange for BAS-ASS chaotic gore and teenagers waggling their boobies at each other, (and possibly, the aliens)
Yeah there's been a dumbing down of movies lately.
QuoteSubtlety- The original films all had a fair amount of physiological horror and Lovecraftian unease. Alien and Aliens weren't gory at all; they established how destructive the creatures were, then let your mind fill in the blanks. AVP-R, well..does not. I'm very impressed with the CGI gore, though. Oh wait, no I'm not. ::)
People don't seem to have imaginations anymore.
Quote-The creatures themselves. The Original Alien/predator films obviously defined how aliens and predators looked and behaved. AVP-R gives us the worst/cheapest-looking aliens ever, a Predator that's anorexic and doesn't even begin to have the character and charisma that Kevin Peter Hall endowed it with, and a PredAlien that looks like something from a d-level parody of "Alien." The creatures looked better 30 years ago.
I think the predator looks good - as for how he acts we'll have to wait. The aliens act stupid though.
Quote-Characters. Original films, "Alien/Aliens/Predator/Predator 2," all had ADULT characters with unique professions/character arcs, involving motivations, and were played by, with the exception of Predator, talented actors. AVP-R has a bunch of Colorado hicks in a hick town who, instead of piloting deep-space ore refineries, deliver pizza
I agree I do not want to see younger kids running around for a lot of the movie, which from the clips seems to be. That would be a terrible mistake. What I'm hoping for is that they are all killed quickly and the focus shifted to the 'older' characters. I'm hoping the reason we have seen a lot of the 'kids' is because the previews wanted to show deaths and the best ones to show are the non-spolier ones. But I guess we'll see.
Quote-Story. The original films all has original, classic stories of suspense and horror. Even the first AVP had a better plot than this. AVP-R seems to have no coherent narrative, and amounts to a bunch of unrelated incidents of people running around being attacked by aliens/predators in their hick town.
Whether everyone likes it or not, I think this movie is following the predator-type movie more. Like Predator and even Aliens to a lesser extent, the movie is more focused on action than horror/suspense. That's not to say those films do not have that, just to say it's more action based. So while I believe AvPr will go for mostly action with some horror/suspense scenes (those being the alien/human ones more so). As for plot, I'm not sure how it will play out but it will at least string together more than the previews let on.
Quote-Locations. All of the previous Alien/Predator films had visually stimulating and detailed, well-conceived locations. Nostromo, Hadley's Hope, Fury 161, the Auriga, South American jungle, war-torn 1997 LA, Antarctica..now an unbelievably bland Colorado town, (which, like most productions shot in Canada, is bland as only a Canada-based production can be), and is poorly designed, shot and edited, from everything we've seen so far, (which is more than enough).
Agreed for the most part in that I do not like the setting. I didn't like AvPs either however. I think this will at least have some variety. I think the movie will have its moments in terms of locations (the sewers for example), but overall it's not a great choice to me unless those promising scenes really come through.
Quote-Themes. The Alien films all were more than met the eye, (especially the first two), and dealt with themes of sexuality, corporate maleficence, family, the nature of man, ETC. Even the first two Predator's had government conspiracy angles, making our "protectors," just as dangerous to the heroes as the Predator itself. AVP-R is obviously absent of all this more complex layering and metaphor in exchange for BAS-ASS chaotic gore and teenagers waggling their boobies at each other, (and possibly, the aliens)
Again, I think this movie will be more in line with what the pred movies were like in terms of themes (government cover ups etc). You're right it will not approach the first few alien movies in terms of those types of layers. But that's not what it is going for.
QuoteSubtlety- The original films all had a fair amount of physiological horror and Lovecraftian unease. Alien and Aliens weren't gory at all; they established how destructive the creatures were, then let your mind fill in the blanks. AVP-R, well..does not. I'm very impressed with the CGI gore, though. Oh wait, no I'm not. ::)
AvPr seems pretty violent. But for me that's ok as long as it doesn't become needless. Again, we'll see but this isn't so much a problem area for me personally.
Quote-The cast and crew of the first Alien films were top-notch people who loved the craft and art of film, and who had genuinely interesting things to say in their work. Predator 1/2 also had the benefit of Stan Winston, Alan Silvestri, great cinematography, ETC. AVP-R has a bunch of 3rd and 4th rate actors who've been in a couple of 2nd-tier TV shows, a guy from the OC, the screenwriter of "Shaft," the composer of "Fast and the Furious 3," and two-first time directors who aspire to be the guy that did "300." Oy.
Assuming they don't play the younger actors on screen as much, I think Kelly, Dallas, and Morales have potential. That is defnately a wait and see. Again though, here's hoping the younger actors don't run a muck.
Quote-The creatures themselves. The Original Alien/predator films obviously defined how aliens and predators looked and behaved. AVP-R gives us the worst/cheapest-looking aliens ever, a Predator that's anorexic and doesn't even begin to have the character and charisma that Kevin Peter Hall endowed it with, and a PredAlien that looks like something from a d-level parody of "Alien." The creatures looked better 30 years ago.
Not going to get Kevin Peter Hall performance type again, I'm convinced of that. That being said, I think they did a good job overall with the pred. Some areas could be off, (face?) but overall I would say it looks good and a godsend compared to AvP.
The Aliens I'm pretty sure will have their moments (yes even against wolf). In terms of design....welll....hmm...
So anyway I think a lot of this, (for example characters), we really won't know till the film. And I think people hoping for a suspense/horror with undertones similar to alien, will be disappointed.
pretty rude thing to say about Kevin Peter Hall. he was phenominal at what he did.
How can there be a hive in this if there are no eggs?
Quote from: PRAETORIAN MONSTER on Nov 21, 2007, 12:03:08 AM
pretty rude thing to say about Kevin Peter Hall. he was phenominal at what he did.
??? If you were talking to me, you misunderstood. I was saying it's a shame, but I think we'll never get a performance like his again so I don't think we can expect to see one of his high quality.
aka Kevin Peter Hall > everyone else
Quote from: superunknown on Nov 21, 2007, 12:10:35 AM
How can there be a hive in this if there are no eggs?
Huh? It's pretty common to build the nursery first before the baby is born. Same idea.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 12:27:42 AM
Quote from: superunknown on Nov 21, 2007, 12:10:35 AM
How can there be a hive in this if there are no eggs?
Huh? It's pretty common to build the nursery first before the baby is born. Same idea.
What's in the Hive though? In the previous films, Hives were built in warm, secluded areas- like under the primary heat exchanger in Aliens or the engine room in AR- so the eggs could incubate.
Unless my info is wrong, the Predalien goes around personally impregnating people. That eliminates the need for eggs, right? Someone here flat-out said that there are no eggs in the film, so what's the purpose of a Hive?
It was in a waste tank in A:R. Which nevertheless, did seem rather warm.
Quote from: superunknown on Nov 21, 2007, 12:31:02 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 12:27:42 AM
Quote from: superunknown on Nov 21, 2007, 12:10:35 AM
How can there be a hive in this if there are no eggs?
Huh? It's pretty common to build the nursery first before the baby is born. Same idea.
What's in the Hive though? In the previous films, Hives were built in warm, secluded areas- like under the primary heat exchanger in Aliens or the engine room in AR- so the eggs could incubate.
Unless my info is wrong, the Predalien goes around personally impregnating people. That eliminates the need for eggs, right? Someone here flat-out said that there are no eggs in the film, so what's the purpose of a Hive?
As discussed to death in another thread, there is a complexity to Alien reproduction that isn't limited to such a simple and rigid structure. Nature finds a way, and we've never seen the phase of an Alien pre-queen before. We've seen what born queens do in A:R, but what does a lone alpha Alien do to reproduce? What's that next phase look like? Etc, etc. These were the questions that got us excited when we did our pitch.
QuoteAs discussed to death in another thread, there is a complexity to Alien reproduction that isn't limited to such a simple and rigid structure. Nature finds a way, and we've never seen the phase of an Alien pre-queen before. We've seen what born queens do in A:R, but what does a lone alpha Alien do to reproduce? What's that next phase look like? Etc, etc. These were the questions that got us excited when we did our pitch.
So this Predalien Queen is not actually a fully matured Queen then?
Quote from: superunknown on Nov 21, 2007, 12:43:09 AM
QuoteAs discussed to death in another thread, there is a complexity to Alien reproduction that isn't limited to such a simple and rigid structure. Nature finds a way, and we've never seen the phase of an Alien pre-queen before. We've seen what born queens do in A:R, but what does a lone alpha Alien do to reproduce? What's that next phase look like? Etc, etc. These were the questions that got us excited when we did our pitch.
So this Predalien Queen is not actually a fully matured Queen then?
No, she isn't. The movie takes place over 2 days, so there isn't any time for that change to happen.
.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 12:46:37 AM
Quote from: superunknown on Nov 21, 2007, 12:43:09 AM
QuoteAs discussed to death in another thread, there is a complexity to Alien reproduction that isn't limited to such a simple and rigid structure. Nature finds a way, and we've never seen the phase of an Alien pre-queen before. We've seen what born queens do in A:R, but what does a lone alpha Alien do to reproduce? What's that next phase look like? Etc, etc. These were the questions that got us excited when we did our pitch.
So this Predalien Queen is not actually a fully matured Queen then?
No, she isn't. The movie takes place over 2 days, so there isn't any time for that change to happen.
Ok, well that makes since to me. All the little questions I had are now starting to be filled in. :)
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 12:46:37 AM
Quote from: superunknown on Nov 21, 2007, 12:43:09 AM
QuoteAs discussed to death in another thread, there is a complexity to Alien reproduction that isn't limited to such a simple and rigid structure. Nature finds a way, and we've never seen the phase of an Alien pre-queen before. We've seen what born queens do in A:R, but what does a lone alpha Alien do to reproduce? What's that next phase look like? Etc, etc. These were the questions that got us excited when we did our pitch.
So this Predalien Queen is not actually a fully matured Queen then?
No, she isn't. The movie takes place over 2 days, so there isn't any time for that change to happen.
Mmmmmm......I remember that in ALIEN 4 someone asked a scientits this about the queen, "So when is she going to start laying eggs?" and the scientists responded, "A couple of days."
So the pred-queen could start laying eggs real soon, not in two days but maybe a couple of more.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 12:36:50 AM
We've seen what born queens do in A:R, but what does a lone alpha Alien do to reproduce? What's that next phase look like?
I thought it was pretty clear in the
Alien DC...and secondly, the concept of an
alpha alien is ridiculous... :-X
Quote from: Gates on Nov 21, 2007, 12:55:58 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 12:36:50 AM
We've seen what born queens do in A:R, but what does a lone alpha Alien do to reproduce? What's that next phase look like?
I thought it was pretty clear in the Alien DC...and secondly, the concept of an alpha alien is ridiculous... :-X
Egg morphing can still work for human-born Aliens. I hope it shows up in Alien 5, when it gets made (it's inevitable).
I like the idea of an alpha Alien like Grid because in Hive situations it at least distinguishes one Alien from the rest instead of making them all dumbasses.
Of course the ideal situation would be no Hive at all, just badass individual Aliens, like the ones from Ridley's and David's movies.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 12:36:50 AM
Quote from: superunknown on Nov 21, 2007, 12:31:02 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 12:27:42 AM
Quote from: superunknown on Nov 21, 2007, 12:10:35 AM
How can there be a hive in this if there are no eggs?
Huh? It's pretty common to build the nursery first before the baby is born. Same idea.
What's in the Hive though? In the previous films, Hives were built in warm, secluded areas- like under the primary heat exchanger in Aliens or the engine room in AR- so the eggs could incubate.
Unless my info is wrong, the Predalien goes around personally impregnating people. That eliminates the need for eggs, right? Someone here flat-out said that there are no eggs in the film, so what's the purpose of a Hive?
As discussed to death in another thread, there is a complexity to Alien reproduction that isn't limited to such a simple and rigid structure. Nature finds a way, and we've never seen the phase of an Alien pre-queen before. We've seen what born queens do in A:R, but what does a lone alpha Alien do to reproduce? What's that next phase look like? Etc, etc. These were the questions that got us excited when we did our pitch.
There never was any speculation that a "pre-queen" even existed or could exist before this point. Molting into a queen was only in some of the games like avp:extinction. It wasn't even in any of the Aliens vs. Predator comics.
Even comic books prior to alien 3 being released in theaters, featured the fact that queens were born as such.
(see Aliens:Platinum edition, mainly the first story entitled, "the theory of alien propogation")
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.com%2Fmikesmetalminionversion1%2Fqueen1.jpg&hash=65db21cc64caa8bc628e43392b8ee98050ecc2cd)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.com%2Fmikesmetalminionversion1%2Fqueen2.jpg&hash=5df4e743a309d99a6a8f0db665538742c41309fe)
Quote from: superunknown on Nov 21, 2007, 12:10:35 AM
How can there be a hive in this if there are no eggs?
Eggs aren't a prerequisite. It's just the sort of environment they like.
Or, if we take the 'red weed' analogy, the environment they somehow spawn which grows around them.
My take on it is that, because of the obvious whalebone look, it reminds them of their time in the proverbial womb of their host bodies. The chest cavity.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 12:36:50 AM
As discussed to death in another thread, there is a complexity to Alien reproduction that isn't limited to such a simple and rigid structure. Nature finds a way, and we've never seen the phase of an Alien pre-queen before. We've seen what born queens do in A:R, but what does a lone alpha Alien do to reproduce? What's that next phase look like? Etc, etc. These were the questions that got us excited when we did our pitch.
Is this confirmation the Predalien reproduction method was your idea, as opposed to what was in the script before you got there?
Just interested to know what was added to the draft you saw and what was taken away. :)
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 12:46:37 AM
No, she isn't. The movie takes place over 2 days, so there isn't any time for that change to happen.
Ah-ha... More than one day.
By the way, Colin, although I make a light-hearted parody of it in my signature, I'm genuinely intrigued to know: Why did you choose moulting, instead of what is regarded as the much more horrific egg transformation method? What was wrong with showing that's how they got Queen facehuggers? Was it a budget issue or was there something you and Greg just personally did not like about it?
Only movies are cannon. It's cool to pull ideas from comics and books but films are the end-all-be-all.
So with that we can assume that you might have taken the part where the queen's main priority is to build a hive just like that last panel stated??
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Nov 20, 2007, 10:58:08 PM
Original cloak effect.
You mean the horrible effect from pred 1 instead of the transparent cgi? Thats not an improvement. :-\
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:08:07 AM
Only movies are cannon. It's cool to pull ideas from comics and books but films are the end-all-be-all.
yeah and the molting idea was not in previous fllms. How is it any different from non-canon comic stuff, to use an idea like that? Comics and video games are equivalently non-canon, I don't see how its ok to take ideas from one and then regard the other as non-canon.
lot of negativity in the room.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 01:12:54 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:08:07 AM
Only movies are cannon. It's cool to pull ideas from comics and books but films are the end-all-be-all.
yeah and the molting idea was not in previous fllms. How is it any different from non-canon comic stuff, to use an idea like that? Comics and video games are equivalently non-canon, I don't see how its ok to take ideas from one and then regard the other as non-canon.
The extend DVD films are still cannon in my mind.
The aliens need new ideas to survive, I dont understand it. To me its better to come up with new material (bad or good), than continually re-doing the old stuff. If you keep using the old ideas next thing we've got is Rambo 5....etc etc...theres no interest in the movie , because nothing is new.
QuoteThe extend DVD films are still cannon in my mind.
So why ignore them in favour of this awful regurgitation thing?
QuoteWe've seen what born queens do in A:R, but what does a lone alpha Alien do to reproduce?
What the one on the Nostromo did in the Directors Cut of Alien.
"alpha" = redundant.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:17:35 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 01:12:54 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:08:07 AM
Only movies are cannon. It's cool to pull ideas from comics and books but films are the end-all-be-all.
yeah and the molting idea was not in previous fllms. How is it any different from non-canon comic stuff, to use an idea like that? Comics and video games are equivalently non-canon, I don't see how its ok to take ideas from one and then regard the other as non-canon.
The extend DVD films are still cannon in my mind.
what are you talking about, there is no molting in any special edition or directors cut of an alien film.
Quote from: Robotpo on Nov 20, 2007, 10:42:23 PM
Overall, I don't see how AVP-R is closer to the roots. When they Strausi say this, I think they mean that after ONE, (count it, ONE), PG-13 film, they're going back to being rated-R, (which in this day and age, seems to mean excessive gore and swearing instead of a plot...).
Im just going to have to agree with this statement here 100%. No offense Colin.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:17:35 AM
The extend DVD films are still cannon in my mind.
Then how in the world
do you reconcile this with egging?
Or is this one of those ominously hopeful 'wait and see'/'no comment' topics? :)
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 21, 2007, 01:21:16 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:17:35 AM
The extend DVD films are still cannon in my mind.
Then how in the world do you reconcile this with egging?
Or is this one of those ominously hopeful 'wait and see'/'no comment' topics? :)
Don't get your hopes up. You can't have egg-morphing, if there are indeed no eggs.
Quote from: Anomaly on Nov 21, 2007, 01:20:55 AM
Quote from: Robotpo on Nov 20, 2007, 10:42:23 PM
Overall, I don't see how AVP-R is closer to the roots. When they Strausi say this, I think they mean that after ONE, (count it, ONE), PG-13 film, they're going back to being rated-R, (which in this day and age, seems to mean excessive gore and swearing instead of a plot...).
Im just going to have to agree with this statement here 100%. No offense Colin.
No offense taken because none of you have seen the movie so I don't see how anyone can claim we don't have a good plot.
Quote from: Anomaly on Nov 21, 2007, 01:20:55 AM
Quote from: Robotpo on Nov 20, 2007, 10:42:23 PM
Overall, I don't see how AVP-R is closer to the roots. When they Strausi say this, I think they mean that after ONE, (count it, ONE), PG-13 film, they're going back to being rated-R, (which in this day and age, seems to mean excessive gore and swearing instead of a plot...).
Im just going to have to agree with this statement here 100%. No offense Colin.
so you need a plot to be rated-r?
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 01:23:26 AM
Don't get your hopes up. You can't have egg-morphing, if there are indeed no eggs.
Vaguely egg-
like cocoons aren't necessarily the same thing.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 21, 2007, 01:27:11 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 01:23:26 AM
Don't get your hopes up. You can't have egg-morphing, if there are indeed no eggs.
Vaguely egg-like cocoons aren't necessarily the same thing.
If they had the budget or the desire to show "egg-like cocoons", why not just show eggs then?
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:23:50 AM
No offense taken because none of you have seen the movie so I don't see how anyone can claim we don't have a good plot.
Time will tell. All i know is if these speculations are correct from Robotpo, whatever film in any franchise that comes along after this that looks like this will have a hell of a time getting me to actually see to judge. Im just going to skip it. Sucks to be that crew...
Benefit of a doubt tested 1 last time with this film...
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:17:35 AM
The extend DVD films are still cannon in my mind.
This guy is funny... ::)
Quote from: SM on Nov 21, 2007, 01:19:45 AM
QuoteThe extend DVD films are still cannon in my mind.
So why ignore them in favour of this awful regurgitation thing?Quote
I agree,
why not use egg morphing which is as "back to the roots" as you can get, over this horrific pred-alien-queen barfing idea?
Quote from: Gates on Nov 21, 2007, 01:31:12 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:17:35 AM
The extend DVD films are still cannon in my mind.
This guy is funny... ::)
If it's the director's vision for the film, then it's cannon.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:32:11 AM
Quote from: Gates on Nov 21, 2007, 01:31:12 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:17:35 AM
The extend DVD films are still cannon in my mind.
This guy is funny... ::)
If it's the director's vision for the film, then it's cannon.
That is seriously lame. Nothing personal, but by that logic, any director that takes hold of a sequel to a
particular franchise could make up any shit they wanted to without paying attention to what has been established and then expect that made up shit to be regarded as official by the fans who are most likely going to reject it. Nice try, but its failed.
So if an alien 5 is made and a director wants the aliens to shit ice cream out and molest children, its canon in terms of the alien lore. ::)
A little optimism: Credit where credits due tho.. this film looks better than AVP. I'll say that.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:32:11 AM
If it's the director's vision for the film, then it's cannon.
I'm not questioning that...I find it hysterical that you would say that, considering you decided to ignore egg-morphing in favor of this regurgitation nonsense...
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 01:29:08 AM
If they had the budget or the desire to show "egg-like cocoons", why not just show eggs then?
Because the story did not call for it.
And note how Colin is not commenting on this, in any way. :)
Quote from: Gates on Nov 21, 2007, 01:35:56 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:32:11 AM
If it's the director's vision for the film, then it's cannon.
I'm not questioning that...I find it hysterical that you would say that, considering you decided to ignore egg-morphing in favor of this regurgitation nonsense...
So did Cameron, look how he turned out.... ::)
Quote from: Gates on Nov 21, 2007, 01:35:56 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:32:11 AM
If it's the director's vision for the film, then it's cannon.
I'm not questioning that...I find it hysterical that you would say that, considering you decided to ignore egg-morphing in favor of this regurgitation nonsense...
Well, since we didn't see the beginning or the end of that scene in Alien, it's totally open to what actually happened off screen.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 01:34:51 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:32:11 AM
Quote from: Gates on Nov 21, 2007, 01:31:12 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:17:35 AM
The extend DVD films are still cannon in my mind.
This guy is funny... ::)
If it's the director's vision for the film, then it's cannon.
That is seriously lame. Nothing personal, but by that logic, any director that takes hold of a sequel to a
particular franchise could make up any shit they wanted to without paying attention to what has been established and then expect that made up shit to be regarded as official by the fans who are most likely going to reject it. Nice try, but its failed.
So if an alien 5 is made and a director wants the aliens to shit ice cream out and molest children, its canon in terms of the alien lore. ::)
Yep. That's life.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 01:34:51 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:32:11 AM
Quote from: Gates on Nov 21, 2007, 01:31:12 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:17:35 AM
The extend DVD films are still cannon in my mind.
This guy is funny... ::)
If it's the director's vision for the film, then it's cannon.
That is seriously lame. Nothing personal, but by that logic, any director that takes hold of a sequel to a
particular franchise could make up any shit they wanted to without paying attention to what has been established and then expect that made up shit to be regarded as official by the fans who are most likely going to reject it. Nice try, but its failed.
So if an alien 5 is made and a director wants the aliens to shit ice cream out and molest children, its canon in terms of the alien lore. ::)
;D
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 21, 2007, 01:36:38 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 01:29:08 AM
If they had the budget or the desire to show "egg-like cocoons", why not just show eggs then?
Because the story did not call for it.
And note how Colin is not commenting on this, in any way. :)
whoever said i was complaining that he was posting on the board? Doesn't mean I have to agree with his statements or his reasons for why he chose to do things in the film. I don't have some vendetta against him or any desire to kick him in the balls or anything. lol.
All the Alien sequels f**ked with the lifecycle. If any film is to be blamed it should be the first one because Ridley should've kept the egg morphing scene in the version released back in '79. The whole process is opened for interpretation.
To be honest.. time to turncoat on this particular issue. Egg morphing is LAME. lol
Life's a bitch people, you alien will be sh** on much worse, hell A:R proved that.
Quote from: Anomaly on Nov 21, 2007, 01:40:10 AM
To be honest.. time to turncoat on this particular issue. Egg morphing is LAME. lol
Not as lame as barfing into peoples mouthes in my opinion.
I find it funny the alien hardcores can believe an alien can take a mans body and turn it into an egg with a live facehugger inside (WTF!?) but an alien planting an embryo inside a man is lame.... :D
go figure.. ???
i cant believe the shit you are giving this guy!?!?
Quote from: highlandpred on Nov 21, 2007, 01:42:29 AM
I find it funny the alien hardcores can believe an alien can take a mans body and turn it into an egg with a live facehugger inside (WTF!?) but an alien planting an embryo inside a man is lame.... :D
go figure.. ???
Ignorance
Quote from: highlandpred on Nov 21, 2007, 01:42:29 AM
I find it funny the alien hardcores can believe an alien can take a mans body and turn it into an egg with a live facehugger inside (WTF!?) but an alien planting an embryo inside a man is lame.... :D
go figure.. ???
The funny thing is that they've only "read" about it, not actually seen it.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:37:48 AM
Quote from: Gates on Nov 21, 2007, 01:35:56 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:32:11 AM
If it's the director's vision for the film, then it's cannon.
I'm not questioning that...I find it hysterical that you would say that, considering you decided to ignore egg-morphing in favor of this regurgitation nonsense...
Well, since we didn't see the beginning or the end of that scene in Alien, it's totally open to what actually happened off screen.
I think it is safe to say that by the end of that scene the alien had not started molting into a queen. I mean you see it in the narcissus before Ripley blasts it out the airlock. There is also no evidence to suggest that egg-morphing is iniated by vomiting any kind of goo into the victim's mouth.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:37:48 AM
Well, since we didn't see the beginning or the end of that scene in Alien, it's totally open to what actually happened off screen.
Fair enough...then I expect to see the predalien
regurgitating into someones mouth, then slowly turn into what Brett was shown to turn into...
NOT, have the predalien regurgitate into someones mouth then skip over to chestbursting...
really... its going to be disgusting and horrifying and follows on from the original (as he says DC is open to interpretation). We need some new inventiveness and insight into what else the aliens can do. Sure lets see the same old shit again, fun huh?
Quote from: kcirtap33 on Nov 21, 2007, 01:42:46 AM
i cant believe the shit you are giving this guy!?!?
I can't be;lieve it either, although we should all be used to seeing this happen on the boards many times.
Quote from: kcirtap33 on Nov 21, 2007, 01:42:46 AM
i cant believe the shit you are giving this guy!?!?
I got thick skin... and it's all in the name of good fun.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:37:48 AM
Well, since we didn't see the beginning or the end of that scene in Alien, it's totally open to what actually happened off screen.
With respect, I have to disagree. They're cocooned for
something and if it was merely to hold them (why?), Dallas wouldn't have been nearly so sickly or asking for death, etcetera. He would have simply been pulled out, like Newt was.
And it's damn obvious that a lot more than mere cocooning happened with Brett, wouldn't you say?
Quote from: Gates on Nov 21, 2007, 01:43:58 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:37:48 AM
Well, since we didn't see the beginning or the end of that scene in Alien, it's totally open to what actually happened off screen.
Fair enough...then I expect to see the predalien regurgitating into someones mouth, then slowly turn into what Brett was shown to turn into...NOT, have the predalien regurgitate into someones mouth then skip over to chestbursting...
however that would mean more facehuggers. If the budget allowed for lots of facehugger props, why not have them come from eggs? I thought it was confirmed that there was only the two facehuggers in the film.
you should see the imbd board...some f**kin idiot on there says he saw the film last week!!!!!
Quote from: highlandpred on Nov 21, 2007, 01:42:29 AM
I find it funny the alien hardcores can believe an alien can take a mans body and turn it into an egg with a live facehugger inside (WTF!?) but an alien planting an embryo inside a man is lame.... :D
go figure.. ???
It is much more creepy in my opinion. transforming the whole body slowly into an egg..did you even see the sculpture Giger did of this?
And at least it didnt make Facehuggers obsolete. Why not just have queens run around barfing into people all the time!..sogoddamnlame
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 01:47:00 AM
Quote from: Gates on Nov 21, 2007, 01:43:58 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:37:48 AM
Well, since we didn't see the beginning or the end of that scene in Alien, it's totally open to what actually happened off screen.
Fair enough...then I expect to see the predalien regurgitating into someones mouth, then slowly turn into what Brett was shown to turn into...NOT, have the predalien regurgitate into someones mouth then skip over to chestbursting...
however that would mean more facehuggers. If the budget allowed for lots of facehugger props, why not have them come from eggs? I thought it was confirmed that there was only the two facehuggers in the film.
There are many facehuggers.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 21, 2007, 01:46:09 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:37:48 AM
Well, since we didn't see the beginning or the end of that scene in Alien, it's totally open to what actually happened off screen.
With respect, I have to disagree. They're cocooned for something and if it was merely to hold them (why?), Dallas wouldn't have been nearly so sickly or asking for death, etcetera. He would have simply been pulled out, like Newt was.
And it's damn obvious that a lot more than mere cocooning happened with Brett, wouldn't you say?
Who said we didn't have cocooning?
Colin, Greg said that the movie had a different look to it in the trailers did, is this a good thing or a bad thing? :-\
multiple methods of reproduction?
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 21, 2007, 01:46:09 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:37:48 AM
Well, since we didn't see the beginning or the end of that scene in Alien, it's totally open to what actually happened off screen.
With respect, I have to disagree. They're cocooned for something and if it was merely to hold them (why?), Dallas wouldn't have been nearly so sickly or asking for death, etcetera. He would have simply been pulled out, like Newt was.
And it's damn obvious that a lot more than mere cocooning happened with Brett, wouldn't you say?
Actually I'll agree with Colin here, i always assumed its natural instinct was to make nest. Doesnt mean egg morphing or whatever. Thats the more extreme option here by a football field ::)
everyone fears change......except me :P
Quote from: gases on Nov 21, 2007, 01:44:33 AM
really... its going to be disgusting and horrifying and follows on from the original (as he says DC is open to interpretation). We need some new inventiveness and insight into what else the aliens can do. Sure lets see the same old shit again, fun huh?
I agree, Alien fans seem to want the book shut on there own creature for some reason. Then bang, there goes any further alien movies....
Quote from: ShadowPred on Nov 21, 2007, 01:48:33 AM
Colin, Greg said that the movie had a different look to it in the trailers did, is this a good thing or a bad thing? :-\
It's a really good thing. The marketing department set most of the color for the trailer, and that isn't how we wanted the movie to look. This was done because of time constraints. But now the movie looks the way we all wanted it to be.
It depends, hopefully its good. I hat how people think the predalien is just going to puke, it might most likey be a tube being inserted into the hosts mouth out of the predalien's mouth. And Colin where are those good pred face shots, you promised?
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:47:55 AM
There are many facehuggers.
Clever way of avoiding my statement...
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:50:21 AM
Quote from: ShadowPred on Nov 21, 2007, 01:48:33 AM
Colin, Greg said that the movie had a different look to it in the trailers did, is this a good thing or a bad thing? :-\
It's a really good thing. The marketing department set most of the color for the trailer, and that isn't how we wanted the movie to look. This was done because of time constraints. But now the movie looks the way we all wanted it to be.
Can't wait to see that.
Quote from: Plokoon111 on Nov 21, 2007, 01:50:54 AM
It depends, hopefully its good. I hat how people think the predalien is just going to puke, it might most likey be a tube being inserted into the hosts mouth out of the predalien's mouth. And Colin where are those good pred face shots, you promised?
Just waiting to hear back from Fox on how many we can show. I bet you next week they'll be posted.... hopefully.
Quote from: Plokoon111 on Nov 21, 2007, 01:50:54 AM
It depends, hopefully its good. I hat how people think the predalien is just going to puke, it might most likey be a tube being inserted into the hosts mouth out of the predalien's mouth. And Colin where are those good pred face shots, you promised?
this is where he disappears in a puff of smoke.
Quote from: highlandpred on Nov 21, 2007, 01:42:29 AM
I find it funny the alien hardcores can believe an alien can take a mans body and turn it into an egg with a live facehugger inside (WTF!?) but an alien planting an embryo inside a man is lame.... :D
Exactly. IMO what this entails is this puke idea is LESS ridiculous than the suggested alternative some have heh.
if lone aliens molt into queens then does that mean the alien from the nostromo was turning into a queen? did it face rape lampert?
?
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:47:55 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 01:47:00 AM
Quote from: Gates on Nov 21, 2007, 01:43:58 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:37:48 AM
Well, since we didn't see the beginning or the end of that scene in Alien, it's totally open to what actually happened off screen.
Fair enough...then I expect to see the predalien regurgitating into someones mouth, then slowly turn into what Brett was shown to turn into...NOT, have the predalien regurgitate into someones mouth then skip over to chestbursting...
however that would mean more facehuggers. If the budget allowed for lots of facehugger props, why not have them come from eggs? I thought it was confirmed that there was only the two facehuggers in the film.
There are many facehuggers.
okay then I don't see how your not re-interpreting what the alien was doing in the director's cut of alien. Its a slight relief that it will sort of be the egg-morphing, but its also arbitary to try and say only queens or young queens egg-morph when in alien it was intended and established to be a lone warrior alien, not in any molting process. Also egg-morphing is supposed to be a one-time process in which a queen bearing egg is created and aparrently the alien who creates it dies not too long after it, much in the same way a facehugger dies after laying its embryo.
(in alien, ridley scott's original intentions were that the alien was dying, and that's why it was seemingly lethargic in the narcissus)
I also don't like the vomiting idea although it will be a little better than having it vomit chestburster embryos.
Good stuff, good stuff...
Colin, do you know when the IGN Q/A session will be done? I sent a few questions.
Also, you said the film looks the way you want now. Less cartoony? How would you describe it compared to what we've seen?
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:48:21 AM
Who said we didn't have cocooning?
No-one. Indeed, I'm expecting it, what with Kelly and co finding the National Guard all sorta' vanished and such.
The question is, are they being held for the Predalien to 'go oral' on them or to physically change into egg-like things, just as Brett already had and Dallas was slowly becoming? :)
QuoteAnd it's damn obvious that a lot more than mere cocooning happened with Brett, wouldn't you say?
Exactly.
The 'beginning' is Dallas starting to turn into an egg and the 'end' is what Brett has become. If the PredAlien barfed onto someone to start the morphing process - I could live with it.
But not this while thing that makes huggers redundant.
QuoteI agree, Alien fans seem to want the book shut on there own creature for some reason. Then bang, there goes any further alien movies....
Let us know when you have anything relevant to add that doesn't involve slating Alien fans as whole, hmm?
Quote from: Gates on Nov 21, 2007, 01:51:06 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:47:55 AM
There are many facehuggers.
Clever way of avoiding my statement...
I think it was in response to what i said.
i was under the impression that the predalien was a totally different species,and therefore on its own,so to speak.
I'm thinking the mandiables on the Predalien Queen snatch on to the person's head like a facehugger. Then it slowly feeds not one but maybe more bursters inside them. Maybe that explains the nest of bursters from the trailer?
Just a guess!
At this point anything is up for grabs.
Sadly. :(
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 21, 2007, 01:55:58 AM
The question is, are they being held for the Predalien to 'go oral' on them or to physically change into egg-like things, just as Brett already had and Dallas was slowly becoming? :)
He's avoiding this question...
Quote from: SM on Nov 21, 2007, 01:58:08 AM
The 'beginning' is Dallas starting to turn into an egg and the 'end' is what Brett has become. If the PredAlien barfed onto someone to start the morphing process - I could live with it.
But not this while thing that makes huggers redundant.
Exactly...
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 01:58:39 AM
I think it was in response to what i said.
Precisely...so we can jump for joy at the thought of more facehuggers as oppose to answering Xenomorphine's question... :)
How about I charge you 13 bucks and then I'll answer any question you have. ;)
The issue i think is if youre criticizing a films ideas, you cant have far out there ideas that youve added to the canon yourself. So in that respect I dont know if i can blame the strauses too much.
Quote from: SM on Nov 21, 2007, 01:58:08 AM
Exactly.
The 'beginning' is Dallas starting to turn into an egg and the 'end' is what Brett has become. If the PredAlien barfed onto someone to start the morphing process - I could live with it.
But not this while thing that makes huggers redundant.
The same here. If the directors truly do want to keep everything within canon, like they've been almost constantly quoted as saying - and
especially if they consider the extended editions of previous films as canon, then they need to take that famous scene into consideration.
It doesn't matter how it happens, so long as it's not
contradicted.
If they weren't quoted so much about wanting to keep stuff canon, stuff like this wouldn't keep stirring up hornet nests of opinions.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 02:03:14 AM
How about I charge you 13 bucks and then I'll answer any question you have. ;)
:D
So Colin we really don't know shit until our asses are in the seat? :P
So apparently with no eggs and the confirmation that "there are many facehuggers", this means some take off on the egg morphing thing or some unintended perversion of it at least. I think that means our fears of the predalien vomiting chestburster embryos are over at least. We know the predalien doesn't finish molting into a queen.(cringe. :-[) and that there are supposedly no eggs in the film. The facehuggers have got to come from somewhere, so unless there are more cannisters on the predator ship, we've got some re-invented egg-morphing here. I don't know why Colin couldn't have just said that in the gigantic thread about the new reproduction method, it would have saved everyone a shitload of trouble and headaches as well. lol.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 02:03:14 AM
How about I charge you 13 bucks and then I'll answer any question you have. ;)
D'oh!
Sorry. I happen to be an aspiring film maker, and these things interest me.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 02:03:14 AM
How about I charge you 13 bucks and then I'll answer any question you have. ;)
It's all good, you're already getting my $10.50...as much as I argue about many aspects of this film, I have said I will go see it regardless...
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 02:05:57 AM
So apparently with no eggs and the confirmation that "there are many facehuggers", this means some take off on the egg morphing thing or some unintended perversion of it at least. I think that means our fears of the predalien vomiting chestburster embryos are over at least. We know the predalien doesn't finish molting into a queen.(cringe. :-[) and that there are supposedly no eggs in the film. The facehuggers have got to come from somewhere, so unless there are more cannisters on the predator ship, we've got some re-invented egg-morphing here. I don't know why Colin couldn't have just said that in the gigantic thread about the new reproduction method, it would have saved everyone a shitload of trouble and headaches as well. lol.
Where's the fun in that?
QuoteHow about I charge you 13 bucks and then I'll answer any question you have.
Smartarse. ;D
and the winner is........
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 02:06:54 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 02:05:57 AM
So apparently with no eggs and the confirmation that "there are many facehuggers", this means some take off on the egg morphing thing or some unintended perversion of it at least. I think that means our fears of the predalien vomiting chestburster embryos are over at least. We know the predalien doesn't finish molting into a queen.(cringe. :-[) and that there are supposedly no eggs in the film. The facehuggers have got to come from somewhere, so unless there are more cannisters on the predator ship, we've got some re-invented egg-morphing here. I don't know why Colin couldn't have just said that in the gigantic thread about the new reproduction method, it would have saved everyone a shitload of trouble and headaches as well. lol.
Where's the fun in that?
oh i get it, its fun to play the almighty director and watch the lowly, insignificant fans squirm and writhe as they are tormented by the uneasiness of the could be questionable directions taken in the film. lol.
No one said you have to spill out every detail about everything that is unknown about the film, but some general, minor non-spoilers, that have essentially been theorized anyway, surely won't hurt anyone.
Quote from: Anomaly on Nov 21, 2007, 01:40:10 AM
To be honest.. time to turncoat on this particular issue. Egg morphing is LAME. lol
Egg morphing is creepy and disturbing. Imagine yourself unable to move and slowly turning into a Alien egg with a facehugger growing inside you.
So there are multiple ways this alien can reproduce. ;D
Quote from: echobbase79 on Nov 21, 2007, 02:11:38 AM
So there are multiple ways this alien can reproduce. ;D
Yep.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 02:10:38 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 02:06:54 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 02:05:57 AM
So apparently with no eggs and the confirmation that "there are many facehuggers", this means some take off on the egg morphing thing or some unintended perversion of it at least. I think that means our fears of the predalien vomiting chestburster embryos are over at least. We know the predalien doesn't finish molting into a queen.(cringe. :-[) and that there are supposedly no eggs in the film. The facehuggers have got to come from somewhere, so unless there are more cannisters on the predator ship, we've got some re-invented egg-morphing here. I don't know why Colin couldn't have just said that in the gigantic thread about the new reproduction method, it would have saved everyone a shitload of trouble and headaches as well. lol.
Where's the fun in that?
oh i get it, its fun to play the almighty director and watch the lowly, insignificant fans squirm and writhe as they are tormented by the uneasiness of the could be questionable directions taken in the film. lol.
No one said you have to spill out every detail about everything that is unknown about the film, but some general, minor non-spoilers, that have essentially been theorized anyway, surely won't hurt anyone.
wow!!!
Quote from: superunknown on Nov 21, 2007, 02:11:22 AM
Quote from: Anomaly on Nov 21, 2007, 01:40:10 AM
To be honest.. time to turncoat on this particular issue. Egg morphing is LAME. lol
Egg morphing is creepy and disturbing. Imagine yourself unable to move and slowly turning into a Alien egg with a facehugger growing inside you.
So that's what it does? I thought the person turned into a facehugger? So you're the egg for the hugger?
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 02:10:38 AM
oh i get it, its fun to play the almighty director and watch the lowly, insignificant fans squirm and writhe as they are tormented by the uneasiness of the could be questionable directions taken in the film. lol.
No one said you have to spill out every detail about everything that is unknown about the film, but some general, minor non-spoilers, that have essentially been theorized anyway, surely won't hurt anyone.
I said it once awhile ago that he enjoys fu<king with us, and people called me crazy, "Why would a director waste time fu<king with us? You're just a hater!" is what I got in response...
Quote from: superunknown on Nov 21, 2007, 02:11:22 AM
Egg morphing is creepy and disturbing. Imagine yourself unable to move and slowly turning into a Alien egg with a facehugger growing inside you.
LOL!
It sounds more like an A: Res idea: trying to look fearsome but comes off funny. This isnt humpty dumpty.
:P
Quote from: echobbase79 on Nov 21, 2007, 02:11:38 AM
So there are multiple ways this alien can reproduce. ;D
well we could have both egg morphing and the predalien vomit.(As i just realized. I don't know how I feel about that one.)
The predallien could vomit chestburster embryos to get more aliens, which in turn egg-morph people. But I think its leaning more towards the vomiting starting a variation of the egg-morphing process. (Since we now know there are more facehuggers, unless colin is lying. lol.)
lol
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 02:14:22 AM
Quote from: echobbase79 on Nov 21, 2007, 02:11:38 AM
So there are multiple ways this alien can reproduce. ;D
well we could have both egg morphing and the predalien vomit.(As i just realized. I don't know how I feel about that one.)
The predallien could vomit chestburster embryos to get more aliens, which in turn egg-morph people. But I think its leaning more towards the vomiting starting a variation of the egg-morphing process. (Since we now know there are more facehuggers, unless colin is lying. lol.)
Like the webbing?
Quote from: Gates on Nov 21, 2007, 02:13:39 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 02:10:38 AM
oh i get it, its fun to play the almighty director and watch the lowly, insignificant fans squirm and writhe as they are tormented by the uneasiness of the could be questionable directions taken in the film. lol.
No one said you have to spill out every detail about everything that is unknown about the film, but some general, minor non-spoilers, that have essentially been theorized anyway, surely won't hurt anyone.
I said it once awhile ago that he enjoys fu<king with us, and people called me crazy, "Why would a director waste time fu<king with us? You're just a hater!" is what I got in response...
It's not "f**king with you." Being the geeky fanboy myself I loves these endless discussion about stuff that 99% of the people who watch the movie don't care about. It's fun for me to interact with people who have the same level of passion as I do, even if we totally disagree.
This is sounding disgusting. In a good way of course.
Oh well. I gotta get back to work. We are balls deep in the DVD VFX shots now.
Quote from: Anomaly on Nov 21, 2007, 02:14:17 AM
Quote from: superunknown on Nov 21, 2007, 02:11:22 AM
Egg morphing is creepy and disturbing. Imagine yourself unable to move and slowly turning into a Alien egg with a facehugger growing inside you.
LOL!
It sounds more like an A: Res idea: trying to look fearsome but comes off funny. This isnt humpty dumpty.
:P
uh this is from the very first Alien film. It sure as hell is more creative and scarier than Cameron's bug-ified Aliens.
If Ridley Scott ever does Alien 5, he should bring back egg morphing.
thanks colin for shedding some light.
take care Colin.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 02:12:28 AM
Quote from: echobbase79 on Nov 21, 2007, 02:11:38 AM
So there are multiple ways this alien can reproduce. ;D
Yep.
wait that doesn't make sense, unless it vomits chestburster embryos early on, but makes it to an early egg-laying stage to account for some eggs and facehuggers. So am I mistaken about there being no eggs in the film then?
Also I don't see how it could reach that stage in 2 days if its in some long ass molting process that's completely unprecented.
Please tell me you don't have it egg-morph and vomit chestburster embryos. Only one was needed and if you had to pick one of those, I think most alien fans could settle for the egg-morphing thing, although I 'd have neither if it was up to me.
colin, could you comment on the alien's size.
why are they not 8 feet tall?
is it because they were made by this new method of reproduction and thus are weaker and smaller?
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 02:16:00 AM
Quote from: Gates on Nov 21, 2007, 02:13:39 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 02:10:38 AM
oh i get it, its fun to play the almighty director and watch the lowly, insignificant fans squirm and writhe as they are tormented by the uneasiness of the could be questionable directions taken in the film. lol.
No one said you have to spill out every detail about everything that is unknown about the film, but some general, minor non-spoilers, that have essentially been theorized anyway, surely won't hurt anyone.
I said it once awhile ago that he enjoys fu<king with us, and people called me crazy, "Why would a director waste time fu<king with us? You're just a hater!" is what I got in response...
It's not "f**king with you." Being the geeky fanboy myself I loves these endless discussion about stuff that 99% of the people who watch the movie don't care about. It's fun for me to interact with people who have the same level of passion as I do, even if we totally disagree.
Looking at you, Sil. ;D
QuoteSo that's what it does? I thought the person turned into a facehugger? So you're the egg for the hugger?
Yes. What happens is you morph into the egg which has the hugger inside. Whether you're dead (Brett) or alive (Dallas). Make no difference.
Quote from: SM on Nov 21, 2007, 02:21:52 AM
QuoteSo you're the egg for the hugger?
Yes.
The funny thing is before this thread I didnt even know that. Wow.. Superbad: mclovin style.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 02:16:00 AM
It's not "f**king with you."
Just a slang term...I don't mean that you are disrespecting us, just that you get a kick of being in the
know but playing with words when it comes to feeding us information... :)
QuoteBeing the geeky fanboy myself I loves these endless discussion about stuff that 99% of the people who watch the movie don't care about. It's fun for me to interact with people who have the same level of passion as I do, even if we totally disagree.
As do I, which is why I'm on this site as much as I am...but you have to agree that your situation is different than ours in that you are one-half of the directorial team behind what most of us are debating about...it gives you an unfair edge wouldn't you say? ;)
Quote from: echobbase79 on Nov 21, 2007, 02:13:30 AM
So that's what it does? I thought the person turned into a facehugger? So you're the egg for the hugger?
Yes. You're the yolk for the embryonic facehugger consuming you alive.
And you might even stay alive, in some sort of permanently vegetative state, until it finally hatches.
Imagine being that way for
centuries or perhaps even longer... Unable to do anything but exist in agonised torment, knowing that your death will only come as the result of another being impregnated to endure a similar fate to yours.
That was always meant to have been the implied fate of the crew of the derelict.
And as SM says, you're just meat. But if you're alive, who knows how long you truly retain sentience for?
It's concepts like that which take you one step closer towards an adventure through the psyche of one HR Giger.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 21, 2007, 02:25:35 AM
Yes. You're the yolk for the embryonic facehugger consuming you alive.
And you might even stay alive, in some sort of permanently vegetative state, until it finally hatches.
Id love to see some artist concept of this bad idea. ;D
Please?
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 21, 2007, 02:25:35 AM
It's concepts like that which take you one step closer towards an adventure through the psyche of one HR Giger.
So true...I would really love to just sit down with the man and pick his brain... :)
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 21, 2007, 02:25:35 AM
It's concepts like that which take you one step closer towards an adventure through the psyche of one HR Giger.
Yes... ive seen his unfiltered work before. Credit where credits due but...Ouch.
Quote from: Anomaly on Nov 21, 2007, 02:26:27 AM
Id love to see some artist concept of this bad idea. ;D
Please?
Either get a copy of the book, '
Giger's Alien' or simply watch the special edition of '
Alien'. :)
Even better, get the original Legacy Collection copy of the '
Alien' DVD and you'll see the original version of that situation, in the deleted scenes portion. It's actually a bit longer than what we eventually get to view in the 2003 issue of it.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 21, 2007, 02:25:35 AM
Quote from: echobbase79 on Nov 21, 2007, 02:13:30 AM
So that's what it does? I thought the person turned into a facehugger? So you're the egg for the hugger?
Yes. You're the yolk for the embryonic facehugger consuming you alive.
And you might even stay alive, in some sort of permanently vegetative state, until it finally hatches.
Imagine being that way for centuries or perhaps even longer... Unable to do anything but exist in agonised torment, knowing that your death will only come as the result of another being impregnated to endure a similar fate to yours.
That was always meant to have been the implied fate of the crew of the derelict.
And as SM says, you're just meat. But if you're alive, who knows how long you truly retain sentience for?
It's concepts like that which take you one step closer towards an adventure through the psyche of one HR Giger.
what? It was my understanding that once the egg-morphing process finished completely you'd be an egg. (Brett was around 75-80% finished and his head was dissolving, so its clear you can't be sentient without a head/brain and distinguishable form.)
You were under the impression that you'd stay alive with a facehugger in you until someone came near you and it hatched out of you?
Giger = genius. I say this as an art student in college.
That's all.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 21, 2007, 02:25:35 AM
Quote from: echobbase79 on Nov 21, 2007, 02:13:30 AM
So that's what it does? I thought the person turned into a facehugger? So you're the egg for the hugger?
Yes. You're the yolk for the embryonic facehugger consuming you alive.
And you might even stay alive, in some sort of permanently vegetative state, until it finally hatches.
Imagine being that way for centuries or perhaps even longer... Unable to do anything but exist in agonised torment, knowing that your death will only come as the result of another being impregnated to endure a similar fate to yours.
That was always meant to have been the implied fate of the crew of the derelict.
And as SM says, you're just meat. But if you're alive, who knows how long you truly retain sentience for?
It's concepts like that which take you one step closer towards an adventure through the psyche of one HR Giger.
So really all those eggs on the Space Jockey ship are those creatures?
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 02:16:00 AM
It's fun for me to interact with people who have the same level of passion as I do, even if we totally disagree.
I'm glad you don't take it too much to heart, considering your position.
Far too many people here mistake 'spirited discussion' for more than it is, so it's good to know you're not offended when people say,
"Chet puking in people's mouths is teh wurst idea evah!" (Even if it is. ;) )
Quote from: superunknown on Nov 21, 2007, 02:29:52 AM
Giger = genius.
Thats ONE adjective...
He reminds me of Tim Burton. Talented but cant stay on rails.
Quote from: Anomaly on Nov 21, 2007, 02:31:13 AM
Quote from: superunknown on Nov 21, 2007, 02:29:52 AM
Giger = genius.
Thats ONE adjective...
He reminds me of Tim Burton. Talented but cant stay on rails.
Well giger really walks that thin line between insanity and genius. Lots of his art is beyond f**ked up but retains some intrinsic beauty despite that fact.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 02:29:16 AM
You were under the impression that you'd stay alive with a facehugger in you until someone came near you and it hatched out of you?
As Colin adamantly pointed out...it's open to interpretation, always has been...
Im surprised Giger didnt think up the regurgitation thing. Wow... hes slipping :P
Quote from: Gates on Nov 21, 2007, 02:33:47 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 02:29:16 AM
You were under the impression that you'd stay alive with a facehugger in you until someone came near you and it hatched out of you?
As Colin adamantly pointed out...it's open to interpretation, always has been...
I suppose that's true in some regards. But you definitely see brett and the state he was in and consider that the process hadn't finished yet. So the natural progression would suggest, complete egg transformation and the dissolution of organic matter in his body as its transformed into material to construct the organic interior of the egg and produce the facehugger embryo within the "chemical soup" contained within.
Quote from: Anomaly on Nov 21, 2007, 02:35:40 AM
Im surprised Giger didnt think up the regurgitation thing. Wow... hes slipping :P
I think Giger would like the idea. He has a fascination with the mouth and inserting things inside it.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg218.imageshack.us%2Fimg218%2F1958%2Fhrgigerbegoetterungxi2bi8.jpg&hash=3162ab0b9724c60499490597f16cbebac126b4a8)
By thewolf79 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/thewolf79) at 2007-11-20
how is puking into the mouth any more ridiculous than turning a person into an egg ::)
Isn't puking into their victims' mouths essentially what facehuggers do...for fu ck's sake, whine whine whine
Quote from: echobbase79 on Nov 21, 2007, 02:40:48 AM
Quote from: Anomaly on Nov 21, 2007, 02:35:40 AM
Im surprised Giger didnt think up the regurgitation thing. Wow... hes slipping :P
I think Giger would like the idea. He has a fascination with the mouth and inserting things inside it.
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/1958/hrgigerbegoetterungxi2bi8.jpg
By thewolf79 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/thewolf79) at 2007-11-20
Looks like a ram-girl getting gang banged. :-X
Quote from: happypred on Nov 21, 2007, 02:40:56 AM
how is puking into the mouth any more ridiculous than turning a person into an egg ::)
Isn't puking into their victims' mouths essentially what facehuggers do...for fu ck's sake, whine whine whine
Actually no it is not. Facehuggers insert a tube down the hosts throat and lay the embryo in the chest cavity where it attaches and grows like a sort of cancer. It changes the hosts dna in order to not be rejected, and it mistaken for just an extension of an organ of the host.
The facehugger keeps the host alive via filtering the elements needed to sustain the host and does not vomit as it doesn't have a discernable seperation of head and body and is a mere carrier of the chestburster embryo.
Quote from: happypred on Nov 21, 2007, 02:40:56 AM
Isn't puking into their victims' mouths essentially what facehuggers do...for fu ck's sake, whine whine whine
Want some cheese?
As always happens with these kinds of discussions, people keep focusing on the wrong part.
There's nothing more ridiculous about the new repro method than the old one,
the problem people have with it is that it is a complete about-face to what has been set out prior to this film. If this method is viable, why do the Aliens usually use a method which is actually slower and more complicated? Answer:
They wouldn't.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Nov 21, 2007, 02:54:20 AM
Quote from: happypred on Nov 21, 2007, 02:40:56 AM
Isn't puking into their victims' mouths essentially what facehuggers do...for fu ck's sake, whine whine whine
Want some cheese?
:D
I miss you Antman! :-\
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 02:51:59 AM
Actually no it is not. Facehuggers insert a tube down the hosts throat and lay the embryo in the chest cavity where it attaches and grows like a sort of cancer. It changes the hosts dna in order to not be rejected, and it mistaken for just an extension of an organ of the host.
The facehugger keeps the host alive via filtering the elements needed to sustain the host and does not vomit as it doesn't have a discernable seperation of head and body and is a mere carrier of the chestburster embryo.
Isn't the Predalien going to insert a tube down its victim's throat?
I'm only using the term vomit because that's the word hardcore alien fans are using to make this idea sound ridiculous.
Quote from: happypred on Nov 21, 2007, 02:57:43 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 02:51:59 AM
Actually no it is not. Facehuggers insert a tube down the hosts throat and lay the embryo in the chest cavity where it attaches and grows like a sort of cancer. It changes the hosts dna in order to not be rejected, and it mistaken for just an extension of an organ of the host.
The facehugger keeps the host alive via filtering the elements needed to sustain the host and does not vomit as it doesn't have a discernable seperation of head and body and is a mere carrier of the chestburster embryo.
Isn't the Predalien going to insert a tube down its victim's throat?
I'm only using the term vomit because that's the word hardcore alien fans are using to make this idea sound ridiculous.
what tube? Never before has an adult alien had a tube that would say come out of its inner jaw. To add one would be awkward and arbitrary.
Waste of time responding to Happypred's mindless inflammatory bullshit, Ballzanya.
Quotewhat? It was my understanding that once the egg-morphing process finished completely you'd be an egg.
I doubt you would be sentient once the process is finished. Dallas was almost incoherent when Ripley found him.
Be pretty bloody nasty if you did retain some consciousness though.
QuoteSo really all those eggs on the Space Jockey ship are those creatures?
"Wonder what happened to the rest of the crew?".
(You can safely bet they didn't have vomit shoved down their throats).
Quote from: happypred on Nov 21, 2007, 02:57:43 AM
Isn't the Predalien going to insert a tube down its victim's throat?
Maybe, but it'll still be a "Wham, bam, thank you Ma'am" type of thing, as opposed to the facehugger's slow, sensual lovin'.
Quote from: SM on Nov 21, 2007, 03:00:05 AM
Waste of time responding to Happypred's mindless inflammatory bullshit, Ballzanya.
Quotewhat? It was my understanding that once the egg-morphing process finished completely you'd be an egg.
I doubt you would be sentient once the process is finished. Dallas was almost incoherent when Ripley found him.
Be pretty bloody nasty if you did retain some consciousness though.
QuoteSo really all those eggs on the Space Jockey ship are those creatures?
"Wonder what happened to the rest of the crew?".
(You can safely bet they didn't have vomit shoved down their throats).
If I had something better to do right now, I would not have bothered. lol.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Nov 21, 2007, 02:54:20 AM
There's nothing more ridiculous about the new repro method than the old one, the problem people have with it is that it is a complete about-face to what has been set out prior to this film. If this method is viable, why do the Aliens usually use a method which is actually slower and more complicated? Answer: They wouldn't.
No thank you...I can't stand the smell of your cheese
First of all that's what you're saying...I'm getting a different vibe from other posts...
To rephrase what you said you're arguing that it doesn't make sense for the back-up method of reproduction to be more efficient than the primary mode
Well we simply don't have enough information about the creature to make that conclusion...we simply have assume that somehow it's not
Perhaps it seems more efficient but has major drawbacks
QuoteMaybe, but it'll still be a "Wham, bam, thank you Ma'am" type of thing, as opposed to the facehugger's slow, sensual lovin'.
"I want somebody who will spend some time
Not come and go in a heated rush "
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Nov 21, 2007, 03:00:42 AM
Quote from: happypred on Nov 21, 2007, 02:57:43 AM
Isn't the Predalien going to insert a tube down its victim's throat?
Maybe, but it'll still be a "Wham, bam, thank you Ma'am" type of thing, as opposed to the facehugger's slow, sensual lovin'.
Those facehuggers know how to set the mood, they wrap their tails tightly around your neck, they shove their ovipositor down your throat and don't stop til the process is complete. No premature withdrawal. The'yre also one host lovers, so committed that they die after face raping one victim. lol.
half you guys pretend you know everything about the xenomorph. Hears news for you, YOU DON'T. They can have new reproductive cycles or behaviour you haven't seen before.
We know more than you and that's all the matters.
It is possible to discuss things like adults which we vehemently disagree on. Take a proper read of the thread, before you resume your scrotum licking.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 03:05:09 AM
Those facehuggers know how to set the mood, they wrap their tails tightly around your neck, they shove their ovipositor down your throat and don't stop til the process is complete. No premature withdrawal. The'yre also one host lovers, so committed that they die after face raping one victim. lol.
One word: Awesome... :)
Quote from: gases on Nov 21, 2007, 03:06:26 AM
half you guys pretend you know everything about the xenomorph. Hears news for you, YOU DON'T. They can have new reproductive cycles or behaviour you haven't seen before.
One word: Lame... :-X
Quote from: SM on Nov 21, 2007, 03:08:17 AM
We know more than you and that's all the matters.
oh, We were all ignoring him. Sorry, forgot to send you the memo. lol.
What matters is how it comes across in a movie.
That's what I'd be afraid of if I still cared enough.
Quote from: happypred on Nov 21, 2007, 03:03:39 AM
don't have enough information about the creature to make that conclusion...we simply have assume that somehow it's not
You can't assume that, because the facts don't support such an assumption.
Fact: Chet plops embryos straight into victims.
Fact: Aliens breed and start to overrun town.
Fact: Entire film takes place over the span of only two days.
Seems efficient and viable. The only thing that would make it work logically, would be to have the Puke-Aliens have an extremely short lifespan. If the method were to have some major drawback, it might make a modicum of sense.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 03:09:46 AM
oh, We were all ignoring him. Sorry, forgot to send you the memo. lol.
Damn! I didn't get that one... :-\
Quote from: echobbase79 on Nov 21, 2007, 02:30:34 AM
So really all those eggs on the Space Jockey ship are those creatures?
That was the original intention, yes.
Although that
did seem to confirm the production team felt the main crew were smaller than the Space Jockey.
As for consciousness for egged victims, I did qualify my remarks by stating it's just a possibility, but one which
would add a definite horror quota to the proceedings.
Quote from: SM on Nov 21, 2007, 03:11:00 AM
That's what I'd be afraid of if I still cared enough.
What's all this "still" lark? :)
Ok, first of all, I can see that this thread is going to turn into another "New Reproduction" thread...which is good. BTW, where the hell is Sil? I thought he would've said something in here, by now.
Alright, anyway, I want to be a part of this conversation, as well.
I don't want to repeat things I stated MANY, MANY times over in that "New Reproduction thread", but I might have to here.
The way I saw it was Cameron introduced the Queen, becauase at the time, the egg morphing scene was never released to the public/theaters in the first place, so Cameron came up with his vision and his addition to the Alien cycle. He introduced something that was not previously seen on screen.
Now, that doesn't mean egg morphing isn't possible, if it only applies to Aliens that are without a Queen present. Sure, Queens can still be born through a facehugger embryo --> chestburster.
However, what still has me confused is the Queen-molting idea. I guess it's possible, but to me, it seems too difficult to suddenly imagine an Alien warrior change sex and suddenly start turning into a Queen.
So, I can understand that this regurgiation method works for a young-Queen between the stages of burster and full-grown. I have said this MANY times here, already. Just because we have not seen it before, doesn't mean it can't be possilble. Yes, you can argue that it means the directors/writers have total freedom of what they can put in, even if it's canon. Everything that is introduced in a movie is canon.
In every Alien movie, SOMETHING new is always introduced, because of the writers/director. Egg morphing, Queen, acid-spitting, taking the form of the host, etc. etc. the list goes on. The Alien cycle can be expanded. The characteristics of the Aliens can be expanded.
In every Predator movie, SOMETHING new is introduced, because of the writers/director.
I ask people to stop just going by what they have seen on film, before. Open that box and think outside of it. What was established before is still being kept, but in this movie, the story/situations are allowing for new things to be introduced, which helps the story...yes, but also can expand the cycle and other ideas, further.
People are bashing this movie, based on what they have seen before, but have not realized that what they have seen before was either new, or began as something new to start with.
Anyway, I think I have said what I wanted to say and have made my point.
Just wait and see the movie, people. Sure, we can speculate on what we have seen/heard, but we need to wait another month and reserve final judgment, then.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 02:17:10 AM
Oh well. I gotta get back to work. We are balls deep in the DVD VFX shots now.
you do that :) hope all is well and you clean up andersons mess
Quote from: echobbase79 on Nov 21, 2007, 02:40:48 AM
Quote from: Anomaly on Nov 21, 2007, 02:35:40 AM
Im surprised Giger didnt think up the regurgitation thing. Wow... hes slipping :P
I think Giger would like the idea. He has a fascination with the mouth and inserting things inside it.
I do too. ;)
...big macs mostly.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Nov 21, 2007, 03:11:19 AM
Quote from: happypred on Nov 21, 2007, 03:03:39 AM
don't have enough information about the creature to make that conclusion...we simply have assume that somehow it's not
You can't assume that, because the facts don't support such an assumption.
Fact: Chet plops embryos straight into victims.
Fact: Aliens breed and start to overrun town.
Fact: Entire film takes place over the span of only two days.
Seems efficient and viable. The only thing that would make it work logically, would be to have the Puke-Aliens have an extremely short lifespan. If the method were to have some major drawback, it might make a modicum of sense.
Well it is a predalien...and not bred from a human
as for drawbacks...perhaps the process is quite taxing on our beloved Chet...yes, it might be a faster method but less viable in the long run, more of an emergency option in case faster-than-normal breeding is required.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Nov 21, 2007, 03:11:19 AM
Aliens have an extremely short lifespan. If the method were to have some major drawback, it might make a modicum of sense.
Quote from: happypred on Nov 21, 2007, 03:03:39 AM
Well we simply don't have enough information about the creature to make that conclusion...we simply have assume that somehow it's not
Perhaps it seems more efficient but has major drawbacks
You say modicum I say sufficient.
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Nov 21, 2007, 03:21:20 AM
I ask people to stop just going by what they have seen on film, before. Open that box and think outside of it.
This is true, but only with useful non tacky ideas. For instance, A: Res was full of useless ideas that wasnt outside of the box, it BROKE the box.
the important thing is that this regurgitation idea...well it hits that nerve...and plus, it doesn't contradict anything we've seen before. It's a hybrid...the rules aren't set in stone.
Regurgitating and egg morphing can co-exist. As for cocooning....it doesn't necessarily have to be solely for impregnation....it could be for food...it could be habitual...hell, maybe Aliens just want to create a protected environment for their little chestbursters. (i.e by restricting the host in a protected hive rather than allowing the host to kill themselves, or for there to be any damage sustained before the Alien is born)
I don't understand everyones problem...I mean, I was DYING to see the return of egg-morphing, but this idea is still a welcome addition and is a million miles away from the tone of AvP1.
The thing that interests me most is the colour-grading....I wonder what the hue of the movie is going to be, if theres one at all. I'm thinking there will be some serious de-saturation going on possibly.
Quote from: jimmylace on Nov 21, 2007, 03:28:53 AM
and plus, it doesn't contradict anything we've seen before.
That's true...provided you've only seen AvP.
So, I guess the PredAlien does molt into a Queen...
QuoteOpen that box and think outside of it.
Cheap lazy copout. Like the regurgitation method.
Shows more creativity to work within the rules to get what you want rather than re-writing them because they don't suit.
It's way too late in the game for this sort of nonsense.
Sometimes people pass off nonsense for thinking "different"... thats all im concerned about. And usualy those that think vomit is kool have this particular ailment ;)
QuoteShows more creativity to work within the rules to get what you want rather than re-writing them because they don't suit.
I agree, and I think that it's more fun to write a story when the rules are already set and you're free to make those rules interesting in a new way. It's less fun to just start from scratch if you ask me. This is why fanfic is fun to write.
Has anyone here seen the movie The Hidden? It's a great cult sci-fi action movie from the 80s about a cop and an alien (posing as a human) tracking another evil alien in LA.
Anyway, there's a scene in the film where the evil alien (in human form) regurgitates a parasitic alien into someone else's mouth in a hospital.
I wonder if that's where they got the idea from.
Quote from: jimmylace on Nov 21, 2007, 03:28:53 AM
the important thing is that this regurgitation idea...well it hits that nerve...and plus, it doesn't contradict anything we've seen before. It's a hybrid...the rules aren't set in stone.
Regurgitating and egg morphing can co-exist. As for cocooning....it doesn't necessarily have to be solely for impregnation....it could be for food...it could be habitual...hell, maybe Aliens just want to create a protected environment for their little chestbursters. (i.e by restricting the host in a protected hive rather than allowing the host to kill themselves, or for there to be any damage sustained before the Alien is born)
I don't understand everyones problem...I mean, I was DYING to see the return of egg-morphing, but this idea is still a welcome addition and is a million miles away from the tone of AvP1.
Exactly. We have not seen this before, therefore it CAN be introduced and it CAN work. It is adding something to the Alien cycle...but more, it's adding something to the Queen cycle. No movie has ever shown us the Queen running around free, between burster and full-grown. It's a survival method and something probably borns Aliens at a fast rate, so that she can construct a hive and settle-down and mass produce the eggs (which, I guess she doesn't do in this movie).
It's something new to the Alien cycle from different directors. Live with it. Other directors have done the SAME thing for years. All those other Alien cycle/Alien characterstic ideas in the films were from other directors/writers...why can't that apply now to this film and these directors?
You are telling them they can't add something, because of what the other directors did, therefore what the other directors did is set in stone and NOTHING else can be added/introduced? Come on. Think about that, people.
Egg morphing, an idea that was originally left on the cutting-board...mainly because of pacing, but maybe there were other factors. I'm not saying it was a bad idea to begin with. With the first film, ANYTHING was possible.
Queen, an idea Cameron came up with in order to explain the eggs and how he saw the Aliens as more of a bee/ant colony. The ridged head design. His and Winston's idea/interpretation, but at the same time, they kept alot of the same stuff that was established in the first film. They were just expanding/building upon it.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:51:53 AM
Quote from: Plokoon111 on Nov 21, 2007, 01:50:54 AM
It depends, hopefully its good. I hat how people think the predalien is just going to puke, it might most likey be a tube being inserted into the hosts mouth out of the predalien's mouth. And Colin where are those good pred face shots, you promised?
Just waiting to hear back from Fox on how many we can show. I bet you next week they'll be posted.... hopefully.
I hope so!!
Can't bloody wait!
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Nov 21, 2007, 03:50:31 AM
Queen, an idea Cameron came up with in order to explain the eggs and how he saw the Aliens as more of a bee/ant colony. The ridged head design. His and Winston's idea/interpretation, but at the same time, they kept alot of the same stuff that was established in the first film. They were just expanding/building upon it.
The problem is this new regurgitation idea sounds like it came from one of those gimmicky film makers, not a visionary.
QuoteLive with it.
How about - not.
As I've said before - if they want have barfing Aliens with pecs; fine. But don't think we're so stupid as to accept that it's an Alien film, when all this stuff screams "Cheap early-1980s ripoff".
Quote from: SM on Nov 21, 2007, 03:40:42 AM
QuoteOpen that box and think outside of it.
Shows more creativity to work within the rules to get what you want rather than re-writing them because they don't suit.
There were no rules for this situation. What do you expect a young-Queen to do, if she can't mass produce? This is not re-writing anything.
If you mean by "rules" in that the lone Alien should do egg-morphing, maybe that doesn't apply to the Queen.
How is this movie breaking ANY rules, if the situation is not the same? This isn't a full-grown Queen. This is a Queen growing and starting from scratch. And no, this is not the same situation as Alien Resurrection.
This regurgitation method, I'm assuming, only applies to the Queen. It can behave differenly, than a lone Alien warrior, which very well might egg-morph it's victims.
Once again, people are relying ONLY on the previous films for comfort and think everything in the Alien cycle has already been established and ANYTHING that can be introduced, in situations the previous films never showed, should never be introduced.
I think there have been enough Alien films that have followed "rules" and it's time we get something new, but at the same time, keep those rules.
I don't see how this regurgitation method breaks anything in the Alien cycle, especially the stages of the Queen. If this only applies to a Queen, then I'm all for it.
You think it's not necessary, becauase you have not seen it before. If you saw it in previous films, would you have the same opinion you have now?
There are 192 pages proving you wrong, Space Disc Jockey. Go look at the reproduction thread. Colin Strause even backpeddled from his original statement and redefined where the method came from, clearly showing that
A) He knew he was wrong
B) He and co. hadn't actually though the idea through in the slightest
C) He's an idiot.
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Nov 21, 2007, 04:04:54 AM
You think it's not necessary, becauase you have not seen it before. If you saw it in previous films, would you have the same opinion you have now?
Past films already HAVE been rejected. It just sounds like A: Res level of skill to me. If AVP-R's good otherwise though, I wont care too much.
Like it or loathe it - and I know many fall into the latter category - Res still followed the rules setup in earlier films.
QuoteThere were no rules for this situation. What do you expect a young-Queen to do, if she can't mass produce?
Lay eggs. Like Queens are supposed to.
QuoteHow is this movie breaking ANY rules, if the situation is not the same? This isn't a full-grown Queen. This is a Queen growing and starting from scratch. And no, this is not the same situation as Alien Resurrection.
I'm not sure how to respond to this because I'm not sure you've actually seen all the Alien films.
QuoteI think there have been enough Alien films that have followed "rules" and it's time we get something new, but at the same time, keep those rules.
What? You want to ditch the rules, but still keep them?
QuoteYou think it's not necessary, becauase you have not seen it before. If you saw it in previous films, would you have the same opinion you have now?
If it had been introduced in Alien or even Aliens and didn't conflict with Alien - no dramas. However, this is obviously no the case.
By "whack spins" I assume you're predominantly talking about the Newborn. Which many fans hate passionately. If S1 and S2 are such passionate fans, one woulda thunk they wouldn't want to go too left field with their flick, since this is what Resurrection did and it didn't go down to well.
There's all this talk about "going back to the roots" which in the case of Alien is Alien and Aliens. Anderson said much the same thing (and didn't seem to learn anything apparently). It's not just a case of studying Alien and Aliens and trying to emulate what they did right, but also look at Alien3 and Resurrection and try to avoid what they did wrong.
Forget it.. who cares. lol
Quote from: Robotpo on Nov 20, 2007, 10:42:23 PM
-Characters. Original films, "Alien/Aliens/Predator/Predator 2," all had ADULT characters with unique professions/character arcs, involving motivations, and were played by, with the exception of Predator, talented actors. AVP-R has a bunch of Colorado hicks in a hick town who, instead of piloting deep-space ore refineries, deliver pizza
whatta f**k!¡? Kevin Peter Hall had more talent that that asshole the played alien.
... i was about to continue answering your post... but is useless you have a lot of problems with perspective.
Quote from: ArielAleXCo on Nov 21, 2007, 04:36:49 AM
Quote from: Robotpo on Nov 20, 2007, 10:42:23 PM
-Characters. Original films, "Alien/Aliens/Predator/Predator 2," all had ADULT characters with unique professions/character arcs, involving motivations, and were played by, with the exception of Predator, talented actors. AVP-R has a bunch of Colorado hicks in a hick town who, instead of piloting deep-space ore refineries, deliver pizza
whatta f**k!¡? Kevin Peter Hall had more talent that that asshole the played alien.
No.
Why was he an asshole? Have you met him personally?
Quote from: SM on Nov 21, 2007, 04:30:38 AM
There's all this talk about "going back to the roots" which in the case of Alien is Alien and Aliens. Anderson said much the same thing (and didn't seem to learn anything apparently).
EVERYBODY tries this "cuddle with fanbase" card nowadays.
Quote from: superunknown on Nov 21, 2007, 03:50:14 AM
Has anyone here seen the movie The Hidden? It's a great cult sci-fi action movie from the 80s about a cop and an alien (posing as a human) tracking another evil alien in LA.
Anyway, there's a scene in the film where the evil alien (in human form) regurgitates a parasitic alien into someone else's mouth in a hospital.
I wonder if that's where they got the idea from.
Yes, that's EXACTLY what I thought, when I heard about this regurgitation method the first time and in fact, I mentioned that film in that New Reproduction thread.
So, if that is to be applied to this film, is this idea new to sci-fi? Of course not.
Is it new to the Alien franchise? Yes. In a way.
Is it necessary and "cheap"? Well, you interpret that. It might not be a totally, original, but it's an idea that can explain things and it works as an "Alien" characteristic.
I think of this as more of the adult Alien version of the face-hugger method. Does that mean face-huggers are not necessary? No, of course not. They are born MAINLY for mass production of the Aliens. The eggs/facehuggers are meant for mass production, but can also be used whenever reproduction is needed, in the case if there is only one Alien warrior.
So, if the Queen can't lay eggs, how is she supposed to keep the reproducion going? Egg-morphing?
Quote from: Anomaly on Nov 21, 2007, 03:59:45 AM
The problem is this new regurgitation idea sounds like it came from one of those gimmicky film makers, not a visionary.
Look, I'm a big fan of Cameron and I don't think his idea of a Alien colony/hive was a bad idea at all. It was a great idea. However, when he did that, he immediately turned the Alien species into something like a bug/insect. Yes, the Aliens appear to have insect qualities, but does that mean they should've been treated like an insect species?
Yes, the idea of a Queen regurgitating can sound like a silly idea, since we have not seen her do that before. It's probably not that much different, than what a face-hugger does.
I understand what you guys are talking about, but I think once we see the film, maybe all of this worry might go away, or at least, we will have a better understanding of it.
This movie is not exactly Cameron's "ALIENS", set on Earth. In fact, I think that would be sort of boring to see another Queen laying a bunch of eggs. We have seen enough of that.
It may sound "gimmicky", but if it works and looks ok on film, then maybe it can be accepted.
I won't reserve final judgment, until I see it myself.
The regurgitation idea is not THAT far from a characteristic of an Alien/insect anyway. Sure, it's a sci-fi idea that has been done before, but if it looks different in this film, then say...The Hidden...then cool.
If you are asking for a totally, new original, "visionary" idea for this franchise, then maybe this idea isn't supposed to be one. No, it's not something totally new to film, like face-hugging or chestbursting. I agree with that. It's not something revolutionary. At least it's something kind of new to the Alien franchise (even though it sounds like face-hugger type process).
If we are waiting for the next, big Alien revelation, that is totally original and has never been seen before in science-fiction...I guess we will have to wait for Alien 5 and maybe there is a writer/director out there who has that BIG, revolutionary idea.
How about we start a thread for us to come up with new Alien cycle/Alien characterstics? We can exchange ideas and try think of new Alien ideas.
Oh, damn, I missed getting to argue with Colin. All well, I'll get him next time... 8)
About the molting thing, I still don't get it; why didn't the alien on the Nostromo or Fiorina 161 begin turning into a queen? Because by Colin's logic, anytime an alien finds itself in an environment with no means to reproduce, it transforms into a queen in order to make egges/create a hive. So all single aliens should have begun this process too, but didn't. And what about the two warriors apparently born out of the Bensons? Wouldn't that affect the PredAlien's life cycle? What do the aliens do if there's more than one? How do they decide who becomes Queen, do they draw lots?
BTW, I notice he didn't really address any of my comments from the first page... ;)
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Nov 21, 2007, 04:47:17 AM
Look, I'm a big fan of Cameron and I don't think his idea of a Alien colony/hive was a bad idea at all. It was a great idea. However, when he did that, he immediately turned the Alien species into something like a bug/insect. Yes, the Aliens appear to have insect qualities, but does that mean they should've been treated like an insect species?
Those are grounding tactics. Cameron also made the walker forklifts somewhat alien but very much like a forklift, he made the marines very much like vietnam era. He uses greedy companies. We can relate to this. He uses things that strike a familiar chord. Those are the films that stick in your head when done well. Keeps it all from floating off into space if you will.
QuoteBTW, I notice he didn't really address any of my comments from the first page...
There's a lot of comments he didn't (or couldn't) address.
QuoteSo, if the Queen can't lay eggs, how is she supposed to keep the reproducion going?
If she can't lay eggs she wouldn't be called a "Queen".
maby the vomiting thing is the first stage of egg morphing?
Unless S1 and S2 have been frantically reshooting and slapping each other saying "I told you this would suck!", "Don't look at me it was your idea!", "My idea? It was your idea!" etc. then I'd say, not.
Quote from: bobcunk on Nov 21, 2007, 04:56:24 AM
maby the vomiting thing is the first stage of egg morphing?
I was thinking the same thing. He did say there are multiple reproduction methods with this new Queen.
Quote from: echobbase79 on Nov 21, 2007, 05:02:33 AM
Quote from: bobcunk on Nov 21, 2007, 04:56:24 AM
maby the vomiting thing is the first stage of egg morphing?
I was thinking the same thing. He did say there are multiple reproduction methods with this new Queen.
I thought that a long time ago, It could be though I don't think it is.
Except the Nostromo alien could egg-morph without vomiting, and wasn't a queen...
We don't know how it egg morphs, so you can't say it did it without vomiting.
Okay, but why does Chet have to molt into a queen in order to "barf and birth," or whatever, but the original alien could do it as a drone?
Chet barfs embryos that pop out of the victim's chest.
The first Alien turned them into eggs.
Totally different.
All I can say is clearly, from Colin's comments here, the film has some surprises (whether good or not we shall see). I really can't give any answers until I see the film. I'm not even sure exactly what regurgitation does, because Colin has hinted at it having multiple purposes. He said there will be many facehuggers, hinting as some form of egg morphing. Did he say Chet vomits embryos specifically? If someone can find a direct quote, that'd be great. I can't say anything until I see it.
Quote from: SM on Nov 21, 2007, 04:15:37 AM
QuoteI think there have been enough Alien films that have followed "rules" and it's time we get something new, but at the same time, keep those rules.
What? You want to ditch the rules, but still keep them?
I knew I would get this reponse. I probably made that sound wrong, but what I meant was that we saw enough Queen laying egg scenarios. We can still have that idea of a full-grown Queen laying eggs, but in this movie and the situation, it doesn't apply.
And yes, Newborn was a new cycle, one that was totally meant for the purposes of that film. It's not a normal lifecycle, and so it really shouldn't apply to this conversation, other than the fact the Queen may be capable of having multiple cycles....hmmm.
I'm just saying, besides the Newborn, that in terms of the Aliens reproducing, we have not seen that much change or anything new for us to see. Does there need to be more to see? Well, I guess according to some here...no. There have been enough movies to establish everything and nothing else is possible.
BTW, what I meant by that "So, if the Queen can't lay eggs, how is she supposed to keep the reproduction going?" question was in regards to a Queen that was too young to have an egg sac and produce the eggs then.
Are you implying the Queen can lay eggs, without an egg sac? Is that what Alien 3 hinted at? Did the Queen in Resurrection use an egg sac to produce the eggs?
Quote from: SM on Nov 21, 2007, 04:15:37 AM
QuoteHow is this movie breaking ANY rules, if the situation is not the same? This isn't a full-grown Queen. This is a Queen growing and starting from scratch. And no, this is not the same situation as Alien Resurrection.
I'm not sure how to respond to this because I'm not sure you've actually seen all the Alien films.
Yes. I have seen ALL the films. MANY times. What did I say in that quote that wasn't true or accurate?
The Queen in Aliens, was only seen...full-grown/producing eggs from an egg sac.
The Queen in Resurrection grew in captivity and produced eggs, before changing cycles. Now, did she use a egg sac? I don't know. We never saw it, but does that mean it didn't happen? Interpret. It took her days to produce, so she could've been full-grown, by that time.
Quote from: Anomaly on Nov 21, 2007, 04:51:34 AM
Those are grounding tactics. Cameron also made the walker forklifts somewhat alien but very much like a forklift, he made the marines very much like vietnam era. He uses greedy companies. We can relate to this. He uses things that strike a familiar chord. Those are the films that stick in your head when done well. Keeps it all from floating off into space if you will.
Yep. I totally agree and understand what Cameron was going for and he succeeded. I had no problems with how he handled the film. I respect everything he thought of. No faults. That was his idea of how the Aliens should be and now, everything has been based off of that (obviously), which makes total sense.
So, because what he introduced, the Strauses can't add onto that? They can't share their ideas too? Their ideas are different. Maybe that regurgitation method is nothing totally original, but at least it's something new to the Queen's survival and something that could fit as an Alien characteristic.
From now on, if anything new is introduced to the Aliens...cycle or characteristics...are we hate to hate it right away? How can anything new be accepted?
Sil,
I have not read that thread in a long time. I gave up on it. If Colin said anything that I didn't get to read, then I will have to go back.... :-\
Anyway, I'm done talking about this. I'm not trying to convince people to 100% like the new method, but at least be more open to it, or give it a chance. If it looks crappy and doesn't work in AVP-R, then the filmmakers, obviously, failed.
yeah you are right, people dont know the whole story behind it yet, they should wait until they see the film.
QuoteThe Queen in Resurrection grew in captivity and produced eggs, before changing cycles. Now, did she use a egg sac? I don't know. We never saw it, but does that mean it didn't happen? Interpret. It took her days to produce, so she could've been full-grown, by that time.
Gediman said "Everything was normal" prior to her starting a second cycle. She was full grown when Gediman, Perez and Wren viewed her in the cage 3 days after birth. Ignoring Resurrection data (up till the second cycle starts) is rather silly.
QuoteDoes there need to be more to see? Well, I guess according to some here...no. There have been enough movies to establish everything and nothing else is possible.
There can be new stuff - but within the bounds of the established rules. Every Alien film has thrown in something new, but none have ever completely ignored the what's gone before and ditched aspects of the life cycle for no valid reason.
"We want new shit because the old shit is old" isn't a valid reason?
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Nov 21, 2007, 04:04:54 AM
There were no rules for this situation. What do you expect a young-Queen to do, if she can't mass produce?
Go somewhere quiet and wait until ready to lay her very deadly minefield of eggs.
However, it was basically confirmed, a fair while back, that this is not a Queen, but an ordinary adult transforming into one. In this very topic, that was reiterated.
QuoteI don't see how this regurgitation method breaks anything in the Alien cycle, especially the stages of the Queen. If this only applies to a Queen, then I'm all for it.
It doesn't. It applies to adults, generally. Or at least, those who are undergoing the hormonal/whatever stages necessary to transform into a Queen:
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 12:36:50 AM
As discussed to death in another thread, there is a complexity to Alien reproduction that isn't limited to such a simple and rigid structure. Nature finds a way, and we've never seen the phase of an Alien pre-queen before. We've seen what born queens do in A:R, but what does a lone alpha Alien do to reproduce? What's that next phase look like? Etc, etc. These were the questions that got us excited when we did our pitch.
People who say that a Queen would be boring presume that it would be presented as a big surprise at the end. Are Predators boring, just because they're doing the same old thing as ever? Queens have a place in the nest and the next step should not necessarily be to add something new, but to use what we've already got in refreshing and intriguing new ways.
You have a creature. You know what it does. Now you build a story around that, giving it opportunities to use those traits to its advantage and play to its most iconic strengths as best as you can.
The psychosexual stuff hasn't really been in play since 1979, if we're talking about the adult stage. Why not reintroduce that? Why not reintroduce egging? We've seen it before, certainly, but we've also seen a lot of other stuff before, too. It's what you, as a film-maker, do with it. That's what counts.
Having said that, we're now getting strong indications that this added reproduction thing is actually egging dressed up in new clothes. We've even been given a major hint that we'll see cocoons.
The question is, does the Predalien use those cocooned victims to give them oral facehuggers or chestbursters?
If this is, indeed, egging coming back, then I think the directors have shot themselves in the foot by alluding to sometihng completely different, all of this time. They could have generated
much higher positive publicity for themselves, if they had hinted at such near the start of all this. Instead, it's generated a mass of negative publicity.
If it's not and the thing's sticking chestbursters in people
and changing into a Queen, then we've got the same problems as are noted in my signature.
If it's egging victims, however (or doing a close approximation), then what we see
might just fit the lifecycle.
Remember, one of the directors has now said he considers the extended versions of the original films to be canon. That
includes the cocoon sequence.
But if it's not egging, I'd like to know what the hell he thought was going on with Brett, 'cause that ain't no snazzy new wallpaper idea the Alien's trying on with him...
Quote from: SM on Nov 21, 2007, 06:33:12 AM
Gediman said "Everything was normal" prior to her starting a second cycle. She was full grown when Gediman, Perez and Wren viewed her in the cage 3 days after birth. Ignoring Resurrection data (up till the second cycle starts) is rather silly.
Are you saying I ignored that data, with that quote? Or are you talking about the regurgitation method ignoring that data? I hope it's the latter.
Quote from: SM on Nov 21, 2007, 06:33:12 AM
There can be new stuff - but within the bounds of the established rules. Every Alien film has thrown in something new, but none have ever completely ignored the what's gone before and ditched aspects of the life cycle for no valid reason.
Again, falling back all on what we know/have seen in previous films. Using them as a base-line/establishment for everything, which can not be expanded upon further. I know what you're talking about that you expect the films to follow what we know/have learned about the Aliens, from the previous films, but there is still more room to explain them.
Ditch aspects of the Alien life cycle? Now, you are saying that the Alien Queen's only duty, is to become full-grown and produce all the offspring from eggs. It's that simple to explain the Alien Queen. Just like a queen ant. Nothing else can happen. Even though these are an extraterrestrail species, nothing else can be introduced to explain them further.
I understand what you are saying, but you want everything to stay within the limits of what is known of them. Now, I'm not saying ideas should really get out of hand and we could see Aliens growing wings and flying, for example, but this regurgitation method, again, seems like a characteristic of a Alien. A more "realistic" idea. If the idea seems "Alien-like" and applies to just Queens, then to me, it would be ok. If the Alien warriors use egg-morphing...cool. I like the idea, but am not 100% supportive of it.
I think the REAL idea of AVP-R that needs to be talked about more is not the regurgitation method, but this Alien alpha molting into a Queen idea. This bothers me, but these are a extraterrestrial species, so I guess it's possible. But again, shouldn't have an overboard of new ideas.
Anyway, whenever I hear of a new idea being introduced to something that has been established, I cringe too. I worry. The regurgitation doesn't worry me that much. This molting idea, does though. It's an idea to expand the life-cycle, but I think it's really a stretch.
I would rather like to see the Alien warriors use the egg-morphing or regurgitation, instead of molting into a Queen.
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Nov 21, 2007, 07:17:38 AM
I would rather like to see the Alien warriors use the egg-morphing or regurgitation, instead of molting into a Queen.
That's the thing, really. It's combining both ideas which fouls most theories up and if any adult could just shift out of the nest and become one, what's the point of naturally birthing a Queen?
I didn't read your post, Xenomorph, before I just posted mine, but yeah, I wanted to mention the Alien molting into a Queen idea, since Colin mentioned again, today.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 21, 2007, 07:23:03 AM
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Nov 21, 2007, 07:17:38 AM
I would rather like to see the Alien warriors use the egg-morphing or regurgitation, instead of molting into a Queen.
That's the thing, really. It's combining both ideas which fouls most theories up and if any adult could just shift out of the nest and become one, what's the point of naturally birthing a Queen?
Yep. The molting idea should be talked about more here, than the regurgitation method. I think the molting idea causes lots of problems.
Well, maybe the point of birthing Queens is to replace the current Queen before it dies (when ever that happens), while certain drones can actually move out of the nest, molt, and create new hives in other areas. This would help them spread even further at an even faster rate.
is the queen face hugger thing canon? How did queen get in aliens?
if not whats the problem with a dominant warrior molting into a queen, makes more sense to me.
For those of you coming in late:
Colin and Greg decided they needed to add something new purely for the sake of it. But they had to introduce the idea somehow that wouldn't be too ass. So they decided they could fix a problem with the new cycle. Except no problem existed. So they made a problem, and fixed it. Except the problem still doesn't exist and the idea is still a stinking pile of shit no matter how it's executed, even more so because it's being added just because they wanted to.
^^ I actually LOL'd... :D
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Nov 21, 2007, 07:28:59 AM
Well, maybe the point of birthing Queens is to replace the current Queen before it dies (when ever that happens), while certain drones can actually move out of the nest, molt, and create new hives in other areas. This would help them spread even further at an even faster rate.
What would be stopping an adult from just changing and staying in the nest?
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 21, 2007, 07:35:13 AM
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Nov 21, 2007, 07:28:59 AM
Well, maybe the point of birthing Queens is to replace the current Queen before it dies (when ever that happens), while certain drones can actually move out of the nest, molt, and create new hives in other areas. This would help them spread even further at an even faster rate.
What would be stopping an adult from just changing and staying in the nest?
Well, I always thought that if they are really supposed to be modeled after bees and termites nests like Cameron intended, than only one Queen may exist in a given nest at a time. A drone can't molt if a Queen is already present.
Jimmy crack corn
The Bros don't care
Jimmy crack corn
The Bros don't care
Jimmy crack corn
The Bros don't caaaaaaaaaare ...
Because even though we know Jimmy cracked corn he could've possibly cracked nuts beforehaaaaaand!
The reasons how AVP-R is going back to the roots I could think of are,
- It features a slimmer, more athletic Predator as seen in the previous 2 Predator movies
- It is back to being a gritty horror-action movie
- Thermal vision is now blue just like in the game and the previous 2 Predator movies (someone mentioned this before)
That's all I could think of.
It return to the original films- Aliens and Predator 2.
That will be what will look like AvP 2. 8)
Quote from: gases on Nov 21, 2007, 07:29:16 AM
is the queen face hugger thing canon? How did queen get in aliens?
if not whats the problem with a dominant warrior molting into a queen, makes more sense to me.
can u give me an answer Sil and Robotpo
Quote from: Dutch Schaefer on Nov 21, 2007, 07:52:12 AM
It return to the original films- Aliens and Predator 2.
That will be what will look like AvP 2. 8)
Precisely.
And I bet the upcoming AVP film will further explore about the origins of the Predators, their homeworld and of course, their very own code of honor.
Quote from: Clyde Wyman on Nov 21, 2007, 07:43:12 AM
The reasons how AVP-R is going back to the roots I could think of are,
- It features a slimmer, more athletic Predator as seen in the previous 2 Predator movies
- It is back to being a gritty horror-action movie
- Thermal vision is now blue just like in the game and the previous 2 Predator movies (someone mentioned this before)
That's all I could think of.
And they didn't do jack sh-t for the Aliens....
Quote from: gases on Nov 21, 2007, 07:54:40 AM
Quote from: gases on Nov 21, 2007, 07:29:16 AM
is the queen face hugger thing canon? How did queen get in aliens?
if not whats the problem with a dominant warrior molting into a queen, makes more sense to me.
can u give me an answer Sil and Robotpo
Both alien and Alien 3 had a lone warrior alien and neither even started the process of molting into a queen, although there was no queen present and no hive in either scenario. Sure in alien 3 ripley had a queen in her, but there was a time lapse in which the alien didn't know that. (until it confronted her and killed clemmens..etc.) So during that time it should have been starting the molting process but didn't.
In Alien Resurrection, the queen and all her phases were documented and nothing extraordinary other than laying eggs was noticed or else it would have got their attention. Thus no vomiting phase witnessed/no viable way of reproducing before starting the egg laying process.
In aliens the queen was most likely the result of a warrior alien egg morphing someone to get a queen bearing egg or the result of one of the people they sent back out to the derelict spacecraft being impregnated by a queen embryo. But surely not any molting.
so if you say in alien 3 Ripley had a queen in her that means the queen hugger footage is canon. If not, the embryo in Ripley could have just been a drone? Is the queen hugger canon?
Saying a lone warrior didn't do something doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't eventually happen.
in alien R, how can the queen "vomit" in a hosts mouth when it doesn't have access to them. It's only option is to lay eggs because there is no one to transform. Maybe the moulting is optional? There must have been a period of time before the queen was ready to lay eggs. What would it have done in an emergency to reproduce? anything?
QuoteBoth alien and Alien 3 had a lone warrior alien and neither even started the process of molting into a queen, although there was no queen present and no hive in either scenario. Sure in alien 3 ripley had a queen in her, but there was a time lapse in which the alien didn't know that. (until it confronted her and killed clemmens..etc.) So during that time it should have been starting the molting process but didn't.
In Alien Resurrection, the queen and all her phases were documented and nothing extraordinary other than laying eggs was noticed or else it would have got their attention. Thus no vomiting phase witnessed/no viable way of reproducing before starting the egg laying process.
In aliens the queen was most likely the result of a warrior alien egg morphing someone to get a queen bearing egg or the result of one of the people they sent back out to the derelict spacecraft being impregnated by a queen embryo. But surely not any molting.
The one and only, marvelous, ,marvelous.... Truth.
Quote from: gases on Nov 21, 2007, 08:07:53 AM
so if you say in alien 3 Ripley had a queen in her that means the queen hugger footage is canon. If not, the embryo in Ripley could have just been a drone? Is the queen hugger canon?
Saying a lone warrior didn't do something doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't eventually happen.
in alien R, how can the queen "vomit" in a hosts mouth when it doesn't have access to them. It's only option is to lay eggs because there is no one to transform. Maybe the moulting is optional? There must have been a period of time before the queen was ready to lay eggs. What would it have done in an emergency to reproduce? anything?
huh? You see the queen chestburster burst out at the end. Even if the queen facehugger were not considered canon, it wouldn't change that. The only difference would be that normal looking facehuggers are capable of producing queen embryos. So we know it was not a drone, just watch the film, she mentions "its an egg-layer, it can create thousands more like the one here"..
If it didn't molt, the emergency means of reproduction would be the egg morphing and that would produce an egg with a facehugger capable of laying a queen.
Quote from: superunknown on Nov 21, 2007, 07:58:17 AM
Quote from: Clyde Wyman on Nov 21, 2007, 07:43:12 AM
The reasons how AVP-R is going back to the roots I could think of are,
- It features a slimmer, more athletic Predator as seen in the previous 2 Predator movies
- It is back to being a gritty horror-action movie
- Thermal vision is now blue just like in the game and the previous 2 Predator movies (someone mentioned this before)
That's all I could think of.
And they didn't do jack sh-t for the Aliens....
Woah, take it easy there. I forgot to mention about Aliens and I apologize for that. No need to play a f**king shouting match with me.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 08:01:25 AM
Quote from: gases on Nov 21, 2007, 07:54:40 AM
Quote from: gases on Nov 21, 2007, 07:29:16 AM
is the queen face hugger thing canon? How did queen get in aliens?
if not whats the problem with a dominant warrior molting into a queen, makes more sense to me.
can u give me an answer Sil and Robotpo
Both alien and Alien 3 had a lone warrior alien and neither even started the process of molting into a queen, although there was no queen present and no hive in either scenario. Sure in alien 3 ripley had a queen in her, but there was a time lapse in which the alien didn't know that. (until it confronted her and killed clemmens..etc.) So during that time it should have been starting the molting process but didn't.
In Alien Resurrection, the queen and all her phases were documented and nothing extraordinary other than laying eggs was noticed or else it would have got their attention. Thus no vomiting phase witnessed/no viable way of reproducing before starting the egg laying process.
In aliens the queen was most likely the result of a warrior alien egg morphing someone to get a queen bearing egg or the result of one of the people they sent back out to the derelict spacecraft being impregnated by a queen embryo. But surely not any molting.
But this is Predalien, not a warrior alien.
Also, the reason they've added all this new stuff is because this is basically a prequel to those early ideas. Alien hasn't happened yet so from a story and continuity standpoint it gives them free reign to run with this new creature and its life cycle.
In the original Salerno draft most of you don't know that the
Predalien died on page 3 of that script. It was a
regular drone alien that was doing all of these new methods of the reproduction system. Which to me just showed how Salerno had no grasp of what the hell he was doing.
So to me by changing it to the Predalien it works and doesn't f**k up continuity. Think if it would've been a regular alien doing these things? It wouldn't have made sense.
At least that's where I stand with it.
Quote from: echobbase79 on Nov 21, 2007, 08:16:22 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 08:01:25 AM
Quote from: gases on Nov 21, 2007, 07:54:40 AM
Quote from: gases on Nov 21, 2007, 07:29:16 AM
is the queen face hugger thing canon? How did queen get in aliens?
if not whats the problem with a dominant warrior molting into a queen, makes more sense to me.
can u give me an answer Sil and Robotpo
Both alien and Alien 3 had a lone warrior alien and neither even started the process of molting into a queen, although there was no queen present and no hive in either scenario. Sure in alien 3 ripley had a queen in her, but there was a time lapse in which the alien didn't know that. (until it confronted her and killed clemmens..etc.) So during that time it should have been starting the molting process but didn't.
In Alien Resurrection, the queen and all her phases were documented and nothing extraordinary other than laying eggs was noticed or else it would have got their attention. Thus no vomiting phase witnessed/no viable way of reproducing before starting the egg laying process.
In aliens the queen was most likely the result of a warrior alien egg morphing someone to get a queen bearing egg or the result of one of the people they sent back out to the derelict spacecraft being impregnated by a queen embryo. But surely not any molting.
But this is Predalien, not a warrior alien.
Also, the reason they've added all this new stuff is because this is basically a prequel to those early ideas. Alien hasn't happened yet so from a story and continuity standpoint it gives them free reign to run with this new creature and its life cycle.
In the original Salerno draft most of you don't know that the Predalien died on page 3 of that script. It was a regular drone alien that was doing all of these new methods of the reproduction system. Which to me just showed how Salerno had no grasp of what the hell he was doing.
So to me by changing it to the Predalien it works and doesn't f**k up continuity. Think if it would've been a regular alien doing these things? It wouldn't have made sense.
At least where I stand with it.
Actually its not a new creature. A predalien is just an alien that came from a predator. The derelict ship from Alien, was there for hundreds if not thousands of years prior to being discovered. The aliens are an old species and there would not be features they'd have during the timeline of avp and avp-r that they would lose by the time the events of alien occurr.
Saying the predalien has predator dna that altered its reproductive cycle is a cop-out as well.
I don't think its a cop out at all. I think a predator dna would change it to some degree.
Look what happened when it came out of dog in Alien 3. It's all interruptive.
Quote from: echobbase79 on Nov 21, 2007, 08:22:59 AM
I don't think its a cop out at all. I think a predator dna would change it to some degree.
why would it, human dna didn't change the reproductive cycle of the alien in the first two films. The dog that the alien burst from in alien 3 didn't either. So even if the predators reproduced by some strange and bizzare means(which is totally improbable if not impossible), the alien which burst from one should not have the same reproductive method that it does.
QuoteI don't think its a cop out at all. I think a predator dna would change it to some degree.
Look what happened when it came out of dog in Alien 3. It's all interruptive.
Coitus interruptive...
Yes it is a cop out. Didn't see an Alien ever whipping it's schlong out to reproduce, when they popped out of humans.
QuoteNow, you are saying that the Alien Queen's only duty, is to become full-grown and produce all the offspring from eggs.
Now you're getting it. That's exactly what a Queen is supposed to do.
All this new method is bull shit, created for teens to say "Wow".
Quote from: Master on Nov 21, 2007, 08:28:09 AM
All this new method if bull shit, created for teens to say "Wow".
I think its being creative and inventive.
Quote from: echobbase79 on Nov 21, 2007, 08:29:31 AM
Quote from: Master on Nov 21, 2007, 08:28:09 AM
All this new method if bull shit, created for teens to say "Wow".
I think its being creative and inventive.
No I think the post you quoted is more accurate, and its just sad really.
No need to attack him for liking it.
They can be creative and inventive due to their own monster. If they create it and promote , they can include anything they want. I don`t think that A or P was created by Strause.
Quote from: SM on Nov 21, 2007, 08:31:47 AM
No need to attack him for liking it.
lol. No, i meant the statement he quoted is true and that is sad. Not the fact that it was better than his response.
Oh okay.
Attack away then. ;D
Funny how you people like to attack each other just because of different interests, that's utterly shameful and childish.
I'm glad to see that this upcoming movie is being faithful to the 2001 Alien vs. Predator 2 game, Predator and Predator 2, with blue background for the thermal vision unlike the first Alien vs. Predator which is red.
Quote from: SM on Nov 21, 2007, 08:34:59 AM
Oh okay.
Attack away then. ;D
ALRIGHT PEOPLE,
CHARGE!!! ;D
Quote from: SiL on Nov 21, 2007, 07:30:14 AM
For those of you coming in late:
Colin and Greg decided they needed to add something new purely for the sake of it. But they had to introduce the idea somehow that wouldn't be too ass. So they decided they could fix a problem with the new cycle. Except no problem existed. So they made a problem, and fixed it. Except the problem still doesn't exist and the idea is still a stinking pile of shit no matter how it's executed, even more so because it's being added just because they wanted to.
Did you read his posts? He said it could be egg morphing, or implied it.
Quote from: Clyde Wyman on Nov 21, 2007, 07:43:12 AM
- Thermal vision is now blue just like in the game and the previous 2 Predator movies (someone mentioned this before)
Although the audio analyser thing doesn't have the black strip, for some reason, which must make it more difficult for the creature to read information from.
Bringing stuff back to the style of the old films, so far, seems to have been meant in more superficial ways than most had hoped for. The preview showed a certain atmospheric style which reminded me of the original films, but recent footage seems to depict a completely different one.
It's going to be really difficult to say, one way or the other, until we see it. Especially now that it's apparently got an entirely new look to it.
I actually had a weird dream about being in this film, last night. It took place at a shopping mall and all the Aliens came in and invaded it. Then came the Predaliens, except they were all different designs
and could cloak. Instead of being incredibly scared of them, all I could think to myself was, "I thought the directors said they took out the part about them using Predator stuff." :)
Quote from: echobbase79 on Nov 21, 2007, 08:16:22 AM
But this is Predalien, not a warrior alien.
Same thing, in this instance.
QuoteAlso, the reason they've added all this new stuff is because this is basically a prequel to those early ideas. Alien hasn't happened yet so from a story and continuity standpoint it gives them free reign to run with this new creature and its life cycle.
Wha...? So, We should all be retroactively blaming '
Alien' for not keeping in line with a film which came out decades after the fact? :)
Whether sequel or prequel, it still has to keep within the set rules laid down by the films made before it. It can use as much of that proverbial sandbox as it wants, but if it breaks it apart, then it doesn't fit there.
QuoteIn the original Salerno draft most of you don't know that the Predalien died on page 3 of that script. It was a regular drone alien that was doing all of these new methods of the reproduction system.
Can anyone verify this? All the other versions I've heard about have the thing featuring all the way through it.
Quote from: gameoverman on Nov 21, 2007, 09:09:02 AM
Did you read his posts? He said it could be egg morphing, or implied it.
Except he was arguing pretty vehemently beforehand that it was something completely new that we'd never seen before. Not to mention he kept saying it was something exclusive to an alpha Alien turning to a Queen ... unless he thinks the original Alien was going to moult into a Queen, in which case f**k this movie.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 21, 2007, 09:12:56 AM
Quote from: Clyde Wyman on Nov 21, 2007, 07:43:12 AM
- Thermal vision is now blue just like in the game and the previous 2 Predator movies (someone mentioned this before)
Although the audio analyser thing doesn't have the black strip, for some reason, which must make it more difficult for the creature to read information from.
Bringing stuff back to the style of the old films, so far, seems to have been meant in more superficial ways than most had hoped for. The preview showed a certain atmospheric style which reminded me of the original films, but recent footage seems to depict a completely different one.
It's going to be really difficult to say, one way or the other, until we see it. Especially now that it's apparently got an entirely new look to it.
I actually had a weird dream about being in this film, last night. It took place at a shopping mall and all the Aliens came in and invaded it. Then came the Predaliens, except they were all different designs and could cloak. Instead of being incredibly scared of them, all I could think to myself was, "I thought the directors said they took out the part about them using Predator stuff." :)
The video game didn't include the audio analyzer on the Predator's HUD and that's the only element that slightly unfaithful to the film I guess.
As far as the atmosphere is concerned, the jungle scene is really a reminiscence to the first Predator film which I am really thankful for.
Well, I guess we'll have to wait for the movie and see for ourself but for now, the least we can do is to make speculations about the movie, who knows some of it may be correct once AVP: R is screening in the cinemas this Christmas.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 21, 2007, 09:17:32 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Nov 21, 2007, 09:09:02 AM
Did you read his posts? He said it could be egg morphing, or implied it.
Except he was arguing pretty vehemently beforehand that it was something completely new that we'd never seen before. Not to mention he kept saying it was something exclusive to an alpha Alien turning to a Queen ... unless he thinks the original Alien was going to moult into a Queen, in which case f**k this movie.
Well I know he would say that we didn't see the original alien for long enough. But Chet may have been born a queen so it could be useless to argue about.
Chet started looking Queenish immediately. The first Alien didn't. Add to this the Bros are very definite about the fact that it's a drone moulting.
I never liked the idea of only ignoring certain films, but at this point I'm really, really for the idea of just ignoring the AvP films altogether and leaving its bullshit to rot in its own bile.
Quote from: gameoverman on Nov 21, 2007, 09:22:12 AM
Well I know he would say that we didn't see the original alien for long enough. But Chet may have been born a queen so it could be useless to argue about.
Earlier confirmed it wasn't.
There was room, in the original, to say it might have been moulting, due to how it was behaving in the shuttle, but as said before, '
Alien 3' pretty much showed Queens are made, not changed into. If they could be transformed into, they wouldn't be made.
QuoteWe've seen what born queens do in A:R, but what does a lone alpha Alien do to reproduce?
Scott's answer was rather definitive. and much creepier than face f**king.
QuoteOnly movies are cannon.
*visible cringe*
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 21, 2007, 09:53:14 AM
QuoteWe've seen what born queens do in A:R, but what does a lone alpha Alien do to reproduce?
Scott's answer was rather definitive. and much creepier than face f**king.
Problem is, egg morphing to produce a queen isn't canon either.
hope you guys don't see the movie. It will be vindicate your contempt for the film and will show your not just whiny sluts. Why didn't they make it predalien queen from the burst? Probably because if it laid eggs what type of aliens are gonna hatch? there'd be a new shit storm, and even if it made sense to us the public would be asking "wtf no pred babies?"
Nothing we can do anyway, i guess bitching is it.
Quote from: gases on Nov 21, 2007, 11:46:17 AM
hope you guys don't see the movie. It will be vindicate your contempt for the film and will show your not just whiny sluts. Why didn't they make it predalien queen from the burst? Probably because if it laid eggs what type of aliens are gonna hatch? there'd be a new shit storm, and even if it made sense to us the public would be asking "wtf no pred babies?"
Nothing we can do anyway, i guess bitching is it.
I had to agree. I like first Alien vs. Predator movie but whiny bitches call me a moron for that, I mean come on everyone has their fair share of opinions and interests. What, they think everyone must have the same rotten mindset like theirs? Why can't they follow their own way instead of expecting people to tuck on to their pockets and follow what they do? Sheesh, I guess people like these should grow up instead.
Like I've said, the first Alien vs. Predator movie is a good movie in my personal opinion. Except the fact that fans might complain about Paul Anderson for the following:
1.Some elements not being faithful to the comics and video games (reasonable argument, I can accept that)
2. No violence, gore and sex (If you are watching the movie just to watch these three, then I'm sorry. You are not a true Alien and Predator fan, suggest you join the sex club instead. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a fair share of blood and gore in films but as far as watching movie just to see violence is concerned, that's not my idea of enjoying a movie)
Hey, the Alien vs. Predator: Requiem is coming out this Christmas. So why not we see the full movie then we pass judgment on it, wouldn't that be fair to the Strause Brothers, Ian Whyte, Tom Woodruff Jr. and the other producing team?
Quote from: Clyde Wyman on Nov 21, 2007, 12:09:04 PM
1.Some elements not being faithful to the comics and video games (reasonable argument, I can accept that)
People are complaining it isn't faithful to the movies, not comics and video games.
Quote2. No violence, gore and sex (If you are watching the movie just to watch these three, then I'm sorry. You are not a true Alien and Predator fan, suggest you join the sex club instead. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a fair share of blood and gore in films but as far as watching movie just to see violence is concerned, that's not my idea of enjoying a movie)
No smart person here wants sex in an Alien or Predator movie. Not excessive violence either. Just a movie that stays true to the roots of the franchise, not a dumbed down kids movie.
Quote from: gameoverman on Nov 21, 2007, 01:20:03 PM
Quote from: Clyde Wyman on Nov 21, 2007, 12:09:04 PM
1.Some elements not being faithful to the comics and video games (reasonable argument, I can accept that)
People are complaining it isn't faithful to the movies, not comics and video games.
Quote2. No violence, gore and sex (If you are watching the movie just to watch these three, then I'm sorry. You are not a true Alien and Predator fan, suggest you join the sex club instead. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a fair share of blood and gore in films but as far as watching movie just to see violence is concerned, that's not my idea of enjoying a movie)
No smart person here wants sex in an Alien or Predator movie. Not excessive violence either. Just a movie that stays true to the roots of the franchise, not a dumbed down kids movie.
REGARDLESS, people are still complaining and acting like everyone should hate the movie because they can pick their own personal and interpretive flaws. Don't f**king see the movie if you like to pick the shit out of a trailer. If that will make you feel better.
back to the roots means for me: R rating, dark and gloomy, good preds, lots of action, great fights with aliens. Yet still giving me something new. Not everything is going to be perfect, but do you seriously think they're not trying their best? Some things you are rightly pissed off about happens to all movies, i.e bias or scenes filmed differently as you wanted. We still get to see the monsters on screen. I mean jesus its like you guys don't even care, or don't want to see them from the negativity.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 21, 2007, 09:26:22 AM
Chet started looking Queenish immediately. The first Alien didn't. Add to this the Bros are very definite about the fact that it's a drone moulting.
I never liked the idea of only ignoring certain films, but at this point I'm really, really for the idea of just ignoring the AvP films altogether and leaving its bullshit to rot in its own bile.
like that.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 21, 2007, 09:26:22 AM
Chet started looking Queenish immediately. The first Alien didn't. Add to this the Bros are very definite about the fact that it's a drone moulting.
I never liked the idea of only ignoring certain films, but at this point I'm really, really for the idea of just ignoring the AvP films altogether and leaving its bullshit to rot in its own bile.
Does this mean you're finally going to stop bitching?
Wow!
Seems like somebody finally GETS it... ;)
And come on people, it's fun speculating but until we SEE the movie, we'll know exactly what's going on...
Well, I already consider the AVP series to be separate from the Alien series because the Nostromo was the first time humans have ever had contact with the Alien, not in a stinky pyramid on Earth.
First of all this is a predalien queen we're talking about...so it doesn't violate anything set out in the original films.
For all we know this regurgitation method (which in all likelihood could involve a tube down the victim's mouth rather than literal vomiting) could be a secondary method of reproduction. Someone brought up the argument that it doesn't make sense for the secondary method to be more efficient than the primary method.
Well we had a little debate which fizzled out...
But despite the new regurgitation method being more direct and "arguably" faster, there are some major advantages the old egg-laying method has over the new regurgitation method that could explain why egg-laying is the primary method of reproducution
Given that molting is rejected as non-canon, reproducing via eggs is a better insurance policy for the survival of the hive...if disaster hits and the queen dies, well there are still eggs that could potentially yield new queens, whereas if the queen does all the reproduction directly, the hive is solely dependent upon the queen
Quotebecause the Nostromo was the first time humans have ever had contact with the Alien, not in a stinky pyramid on Earth.
Why ash´s speak about the alien then, and the mission to bring it back?
QuoteWhy ash´s speak about the alien then, and the mission to bring it back?
It is not clear at what point he is given that order. The Nostromo wakes the crew up to investigate the beacon, all info is sent back to WY via "the network" however there is no indication of how much the company really knows. The fact that they put Ash on the ship in the first place suggests they know of the beacons existence but there's nothing to suggest that they specifically know of the alien organism. The special order could have been given to Ash once he reported Kane's attack, since he was in constant communication with WY.
The alien is clearly very precious to WY and I don't think they'd have sent a bunch of space truckers to pick it up if they'd have had solid inteligence on it.
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Nov 21, 2007, 03:43:21 PM
Quotebecause the Nostromo was the first time humans have ever had contact with the Alien, not in a stinky pyramid on Earth.
Why ash´s speak about the alien then, and the mission to bring it back?
You are saying that is if the writers of Alien wrote that to connect it to AVP. Clearly the company knew something and put Ash on the Nostromo to bring it back, but Earth was not the first encounter. I always imagined that the company simply found
evidence of it and wanted it, hence the placement of Ash.
To think that its supposed to be an Alien organism, yet mankinds' first encounter with it is on Earth is lame.
Well .. finally i reached the end ...
It's very funny how People bitching about this "new" reproduction thing and stating this "egg morphing" as canon. Very funny ... NO ONE, even not Scott self said this was egg morphing.
So from where you all getting this crap? Dont say it looked like egg morphing and it is obviously .. .its not! Because looking like egg morphing != actually egg morphing.
Aliens nature is to building nests. This one on Nostromo did it ... Dallas etc. were part of it.
Sorry but its just redicilous how you all think, you know that it WAS really egg morphing. Bullshit .. it is not sure! It is all in our imagination what it could be and what not ... i dont understand how you can even think it was when it isnt sure, a Queen was actually in Scotts mind? Cameron introduced her .. not Scott!
So DONT state this egg morphing as fact without background knowledge ...
greetz
Although I haven't read it, egg morphing is mentioned in one of the Alien books, either Giger's or O'Bannon's. It isn't just made up, that is what was intended.
Books != Canon
And like i said ... no one said it! So how can you say "that is what was intended" ... you think it was so .. but it is not fact!
greetz
Did it ever occur to any of you, that a pre-Queen regurgitates into a victim's mouth, and THAT is what causes the victim to egg-morph? THAT is what the alien on the Nostromo did to Dallas.
And THAT is what we will maybe, just maybe, see in AvP-R ;)
Quote from: $cHm0cK on Nov 21, 2007, 04:53:48 PM
Books != Canon
And like i said ... no one said it! So how can you say "that is what was intended" ... you think it was so .. but it is not fact!
greetz
That's like saying that David Fincher intended Bishop II to be human, but we don't know for sure. If it is what the director intended, just because it isn't made 100 % clear doesn't mean it isn't fact.
From where you want to know that Scott intended that scene to be egg morphing?
;)
greetz
Quote from: gameoverman on Nov 21, 2007, 10:17:23 AM
Problem is, egg morphing to produce a queen isn't canon either.
Colin stated above that he considers all the extended versions of the films on DVD as canon. That includes the cocoon scene.
Quote from: $cHm0cK on Nov 21, 2007, 04:46:13 PM
NO ONE, even not Scott self said this was egg morphing.
So from where you all getting this crap? Dont say it looked like egg morphing and it is obviously .. .its not! Because looking like egg morphing != actually egg morphing.
You're wrong. Scott said it. Giger said it - as does his book, too. The
production artwork and scripts say it.
Everyone on the production, with anything to do with it, said it was.
QuoteAliens nature is to building nests. This one on Nostromo did it ... Dallas etc. were part of it.
(1) Dallas wouldn't be in such pain if it was merely cocoon material. Something is phsyically inside him.
(2) Ripley knew that, damn well. Hence why she bathed him in flame, instead of simply removing the guy.
(3) How can you seriously say Brett doesn't look like an egg? That isn't just resin put on him. That corpse has physically transformed. Look at Dallas, below the waist. He's beginning to undergo that same process.
It was always Scott's intention for the Alien to have impregnated/infected Lambert with an Alien after whatever it did to her.
He says in the commentary seconds after that scene:
"Whatever happended, there would have been more Aliens on that ship."
Now we know how. I don't see much of a problem there.
If you can't put 2 and 2 together from watching the directors cut of alien you are either extremely dense or making a piss poor attempt to play devils advocate.
Well .. fine but why are bitching about AvPr and the reproduction? Maybe it makes sense for one single Drone to morph victims into eggs ... but for a pre queen? Not really .. Fact is, that we dont know much about the plot here ... it could be that first chet see that wolf is bashing her drones ... and she need more of them what makes her to lay some aliens into people (because morphing would be take to much time) instead of waiting to grow and lay eggs in the normal way ... we dont know .. so plz wait until the movie comes ...
greetz
Quote from: gases on Nov 21, 2007, 07:29:16 AM
is the queen face hugger thing canon? How did queen get in aliens?
if not whats the problem with a dominant warrior molting into a queen, makes more sense to me.
Yes, the super-hugger is cannon; however, there's no evidence to suggest that the Newt's father was the one that spawned the queen, as he's obviously impregnated by a regular hugger. Is this what you're getting at?
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 21, 2007, 05:31:15 PM
"Whatever happended, there would have been more Aliens on that ship."
Scott always said that he wanted people to think it was in the cat, and now that Parker and Lambert gone and Brett and Dallas missing, it was
possible the Alien had found some way of making more Aliens - That's the fear he wanted to give the audience.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 21, 2007, 07:57:54 PM
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 21, 2007, 05:31:15 PM
"Whatever happended, there would have been more Aliens on that ship."
Scott always said that he wanted people to think it was in the cat, and now that Parker and Lambert gone and Brett and Dallas missing, it was possible the Alien had found some way of making more Aliens - That's the fear he wanted to give the audience.
Fair. All I'm saying is, is that because of that it's not to much to think that the Alien could have used this new method to impregnate Lambert.
I still fail to see how it contradicts canon.
Then you haven't read the old thread enough. And being that Lambert is well and truly dead, I doubt it used her to reproduce. So can we please stop trying to retcon Alien for this shitty idea and move on to more pressing matters, like the colour of Wolf's crotch?
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 21, 2007, 08:07:16 PM
Quote from: SiL on Nov 21, 2007, 07:57:54 PM
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 21, 2007, 05:31:15 PM
"Whatever happended, there would have been more Aliens on that ship."
Scott always said that he wanted people to think it was in the cat, and now that Parker and Lambert gone and Brett and Dallas missing, it was possible the Alien had found some way of making more Aliens - That's the fear he wanted to give the audience.
Fair. All I'm saying is, is that because of that it's not to much to think that the Alien could have used this new method to impregnate Lambert.
I still fail to see how it contradicts canon.
well lambert was dead as a door nail, so I don't see how some process aside from egg-morphing could even work, as any kind of embryo an alien could theoretical have would need a living host. It was just ridley scott using the terror of what then was an unknown life cycle. Since the audience didn't know everything yet, they really could have thought there was an alien in the cat or that somehow lambert was "raped" in some way.
In reality none of those things were possible and the only intended reproductive method at that time was the egg morphing, and it was cut from the theatrical cut, so ignoring egg-morphing is acceptable, but it doesn't mean if it was used in a future film it can be done in a way that would contradict how it was done in the director's cut.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 21, 2007, 08:09:31 PM
Then you haven't read the old thread enough. And being that Lambert is well and truly dead, I doubt it used her to reproduce. So can we please stop trying to retcon Alien for this shitty idea and move on to more pressing matters, like the colour of Wolf's crotch?
The Ox was dead in Alien 3. Alien's don't necessarily need live hosts to be incubated. That being said, it's never shown clearly whether Lambert's dead or not, she could be unconscious for all we know.
They need live hosts. I always imagined that the ox was alive for most of the gestation period, but than died towards the end. The facehugger didn't facehug a dead ox.
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 21, 2007, 08:12:09 PM
Quote from: SiL on Nov 21, 2007, 08:09:31 PM
Then you haven't read the old thread enough. And being that Lambert is well and truly dead, I doubt it used her to reproduce. So can we please stop trying to retcon Alien for this shitty idea and move on to more pressing matters, like the colour of Wolf's crotch?
The Ox was dead in Alien 3. Alien's don't necessarily need live hosts to be incubated. That being said, it's never shown clearly whether Lambert's dead or not, she could be unconscious for all we know.
The ox wasn't dead before the facehugger attached itself to it, it most likely died afterwards, and the alien inside was developed enough that the death of its host/ox didn't make a difference. Its been established that if you kill the host early on in the chestbursters development it will die, but if its almost ready to burst out anyway and survive independently of the host, killing the host will not kill it.
The blood dripping from her leg, and the fact that she was hanging lifelessly with a pool of blood below her, indicate the intentions are she is dead. The tail obvioulsy impaled or shredded her in some way, and even if the tail literally went up her pussy, its still not literal rape, since there is no semen and no way to reproduce that way anymore than shoving a knife up there could result in impregnation. (sorry for the gross visuals, for those of you with vivid imaginations, but the point had to be made)
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 21, 2007, 08:12:09 PM
The Ox was dead in Alien 3.
But it was
alive when it was impregnated, and just keeled over later; the Alien killed Lambert during whatever it was it was going, which isn't exactly condusive to a parasitic organism's growth.
QuoteThat being said, it's never shown clearly whether Lambert's dead or not, she could be unconscious for all we know.
Yes, I'm sure Ripley would've left Lambert hanging there if she just had a cut on her bare legs to explain the blood, swinging by her coat jacket.
Hey yuo willl never know whats in the aliens tail.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 08:17:54 PM
The tail obvioulsy impaled or shredded her in some way, and even if the tail literally went up her pussy, its still not literal rape, since there is no semen and no way to reproduce that way anymore than shoving a knife up there could result in impregnation. (sorry for the gross visuals, for those of you with vivid imaginations, but the point had to be made)
There doesn't have to be semen for it to be rape. Any unwanted sexual intercourse is rape, whether penis or Alien tail. :P
Quote from: SiL on Nov 21, 2007, 08:18:39 PM
QuoteThat being said, it's never shown clearly whether Lambert's dead or not, she could be unconscious for all we know.
Yes, I'm sure Ripley would've left Lambert hanging there if she just had a cut on her bare legs to explain the blood, swinging by her coat jacket.
I'm not disputing that she looks dead, but giving the varied and marvelous abilities that Aliens possess it would not be unimaginable to think it may have brutally raped her, leaving her hanging, impregnated.
But to be honest, I find myself wondering why I have been put in the situation where I am struggling to find evidence to support this theory... :-\
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Nov 21, 2007, 08:20:53 PM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 08:17:54 PM
The tail obvioulsy impaled or shredded her in some way, and even if the tail literally went up her pussy, its still not literal rape, since there is no semen and no way to reproduce that way anymore than shoving a knife up there could result in impregnation. (sorry for the gross visuals, for those of you with vivid imaginations, but the point had to be made)
There doesn't have to be semen for it to be rape. Any unwanted sexual intercourse is rape, whether penis or Alien tail. :P
well, I stand corrected it could be rape in that sense, but for the sake of this argument which was about there being more aliens produced as a result, the point remains that such a thing is not a possibility. The aliens are not sexual in a biological sense, although giger's designs are and what the facehugger does has sexual overtones. There is no penis on the alien suit in any film, not even the lesser ones. The newborn had its genitals digitally removed. lol.
So there is no possible way for an alien to reproduce sexually. That is all I'm saying.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 21, 2007, 08:18:39 PM
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 21, 2007, 08:12:09 PM
The Ox was dead in Alien 3.
But it was alive when it was impregnated, and just keeled over later; the Alien killed Lambert during whatever it was it was going, which isn't exactly condusive to a parasitic organism's growth.
QuoteThat being said, it's never shown clearly whether Lambert's dead or not, she could be unconscious for all we know.
Yes, I'm sure Ripley would've left Lambert hanging there if she just had a cut on her bare legs to explain the blood, swinging by her coat jacket.
Especially considering the fact that she was hesitant to kill dallas even in the shape he was in. So it must have been painfully obvious that she was dead.
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 21, 2007, 08:23:24 PM
But to be honest, I find myself wondering why I have been put in the situation where I am struggling to find evidence to support this theory... :-\
My fault! Sorry... ;D
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 08:23:34 PM
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Nov 21, 2007, 08:20:53 PM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 08:17:54 PM
The tail obvioulsy impaled or shredded her in some way, and even if the tail literally went up her pussy, its still not literal rape, since there is no semen and no way to reproduce that way anymore than shoving a knife up there could result in impregnation. (sorry for the gross visuals, for those of you with vivid imaginations, but the point had to be made)
There doesn't have to be semen for it to be rape. Any unwanted sexual intercourse is rape, whether penis or Alien tail. :P
well, I stand corrected it could be rape in that sense, but for the sake of this argument which was about there being more aliens produced as a result, the point remains that such a thing is not a possibility. The aliens are not sexual in a biological sense, although giger's designs are and what the facehugger does has sexual overtones. There is no penis on the alien suit in any film, not even the lesser ones. The newborn had its genitals digitally removed. lol.
So there is no possible way for an alien to reproduce sexually. That is all I'm saying.
Have you seen the Alien's tongue? If that's not a big, semen covered penis innuendo then I don't know what is! :D
Quote from: Gates on Nov 21, 2007, 08:26:28 PM
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 21, 2007, 08:23:24 PM
But to be honest, I find myself wondering why I have been put in the situation where I am struggling to find evidence to support this theory... :-\
My fault! Sorry... ;D
:D
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 21, 2007, 08:28:46 PM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 08:23:34 PM
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Nov 21, 2007, 08:20:53 PM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 08:17:54 PM
The tail obvioulsy impaled or shredded her in some way, and even if the tail literally went up her pussy, its still not literal rape, since there is no semen and no way to reproduce that way anymore than shoving a knife up there could result in impregnation. (sorry for the gross visuals, for those of you with vivid imaginations, but the point had to be made)
There doesn't have to be semen for it to be rape. Any unwanted sexual intercourse is rape, whether penis or Alien tail. :P
well, I stand corrected it could be rape in that sense, but for the sake of this argument which was about there being more aliens produced as a result, the point remains that such a thing is not a possibility. The aliens are not sexual in a biological sense, although giger's designs are and what the facehugger does has sexual overtones. There is no penis on the alien suit in any film, not even the lesser ones. The newborn had its genitals digitally removed. lol.
So there is no possible way for an alien to reproduce sexually. That is all I'm saying.
Have you seen the Alien's tongue? If that's not a big, semen covered penis innuendo then I don't know what is! :D
Quote from: Gates on Nov 21, 2007, 08:26:28 PM
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 21, 2007, 08:23:24 PM
But to be honest, I find myself wondering why I have been put in the situation where I am struggling to find evidence to support this theory... :-\
My fault! Sorry... ;D
:D
I am well aware of the sexual overtones to giger's designs, I even mentioned such a thing. But that however doesn't mean the aliens have penises. They are not male or female in any biological way in regards to reproduction, the queen is only a "She" because of the hormones and the fact that she lays eggs. An inner jaw looking like a penis dripping with semen(cringe :-[), does not mean it is one. There is no penis extending from inbetween the aliens legs, jsut take a look at pictures of the suits.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 08:32:21 PM
I am well aware of the sexual overtones to giger's designs, I even mentioned such a thing. But that however doesn't mean the aliens have penises. They are not male or female in any biological way in regards to reproduction, the queen is only a "She" because of the hormones and the fact that she lays eggs. An inner jaw looking like a penis dripping with semen(cringe :-[), does not mean it is one.
I know it doesn't mean it is one, but I don't know if it doesn't mean it isn't one... ;)
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 21, 2007, 08:33:54 PM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 08:32:21 PM
I am well aware of the sexual overtones to giger's designs, I even mentioned such a thing. But that however doesn't mean the aliens have penises. They are not male or female in any biological way in regards to reproduction, the queen is only a "She" because of the hormones and the fact that she lays eggs. An inner jaw looking like a penis dripping with semen(cringe :-[), does not mean it is one.
I know it doesn't mean it is one, but I don't know if it doesn't mean it isn't one... ;)
wtf? (no not said in sheriff morales voice in case your wondering)
Quote from: SiL on Nov 21, 2007, 08:09:31 PM
Then you haven't read the old thread enough. And being that Lambert is well and truly dead, I doubt it used her to reproduce. So can we please stop trying to retcon Alien for this shitty idea and move on to more pressing matters, like the colour of Wolf's crotch?
The alien killed Brett, and yet still egg morphed him.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 08:35:27 PM
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 21, 2007, 08:33:54 PM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 08:32:21 PM
I am well aware of the sexual overtones to giger's designs, I even mentioned such a thing. But that however doesn't mean the aliens have penises. They are not male or female in any biological way in regards to reproduction, the queen is only a "She" because of the hormones and the fact that she lays eggs. An inner jaw looking like a penis dripping with semen(cringe :-[), does not mean it is one.
I know it doesn't mean it is one, but I don't know if it doesn't mean it isn't one... ;)
wtf? (no not said in sheriff morales voice in case your wondering)
What I'm saying is:
There is no evidence to suggest it is a penis or whatever, but there is no evidence to suggest it isn't.
As SiL said in an earlier thread "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
Quote from: gameoverman on Nov 21, 2007, 08:38:54 PM
Quote from: SiL on Nov 21, 2007, 08:09:31 PM
Then you haven't read the old thread enough. And being that Lambert is well and truly dead, I doubt it used her to reproduce. So can we please stop trying to retcon Alien for this shitty idea and move on to more pressing matters, like the colour of Wolf's crotch?
The alien killed Brett, and yet still egg morphed him.
yeah egg-morphed him, not raped him in order to impregnate him in some way.
This isn't egg morphing. A parasitic organism requires for its host to be alive - The Alien can clearly survive it dying later, yet we've never seen a corpse impregnated.
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 21, 2007, 08:40:15 PM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 08:35:27 PM
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 21, 2007, 08:33:54 PM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 08:32:21 PM
I am well aware of the sexual overtones to giger's designs, I even mentioned such a thing. But that however doesn't mean the aliens have penises. They are not male or female in any biological way in regards to reproduction, the queen is only a "She" because of the hormones and the fact that she lays eggs. An inner jaw looking like a penis dripping with semen(cringe :-[), does not mean it is one.
I know it doesn't mean it is one, but I don't know if it doesn't mean it isn't one... ;)
wtf? (no not said in sheriff morales voice in case your wondering)
What I'm saying is:
There is no evidence to suggest it is a penis or whatever, but there is no evidence to suggest it isn't.
As SiL said in an earlier thread "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
that's just pure bullshit. Maybe that statement is true at certain times, but its like a lame excuse religious fanatics try to use to dismiss the fact that there is no evidence for god and never was. Same thing for bigfoot, angels..etc.
Its pretty obvious the inner jaw its not a reproductive organ. The only reason it looks like a penis is because H.R. Giger designed the alien. That's it, there's no need to probe any further. (ugghh.. probe..unintended pun..I must apologize for. lol.)
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 08:43:01 PM
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 21, 2007, 08:40:15 PM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 08:35:27 PM
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 21, 2007, 08:33:54 PM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 08:32:21 PM
I am well aware of the sexual overtones to giger's designs, I even mentioned such a thing. But that however doesn't mean the aliens have penises. They are not male or female in any biological way in regards to reproduction, the queen is only a "She" because of the hormones and the fact that she lays eggs. An inner jaw looking like a penis dripping with semen(cringe :-[), does not mean it is one.
I know it doesn't mean it is one, but I don't know if it doesn't mean it isn't one... ;)
wtf? (no not said in sheriff morales voice in case your wondering)
What I'm saying is:
There is no evidence to suggest it is a penis or whatever, but there is no evidence to suggest it isn't.
As SiL said in an earlier thread "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
that's just pure bullshit. Maybe that statement is true at certain times, but its like a lame excuse religious fanatics try to use to dismiss the fact that there is no evidence for god and never was. Same thing for bigfoot, angels..etc.
Its pretty obvious the inner jaw its not a reproductive organ. The only reason it looks like a penis is because H.R. Giger designed the alien. That's it, there's no need to probe any further. (ugghh.. probe..unintended pun..I must apologize for. lol.)
Fair enough. But I still stick by my opinion, which now makes sense seeing as that's the way Chet fires her baby juice down their throats. From her tongue/cock.
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 21, 2007, 08:45:27 PM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 08:43:01 PM
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 21, 2007, 08:40:15 PM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 08:35:27 PM
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 21, 2007, 08:33:54 PM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 08:32:21 PM
I am well aware of the sexual overtones to giger's designs, I even mentioned such a thing. But that however doesn't mean the aliens have penises. They are not male or female in any biological way in regards to reproduction, the queen is only a "She" because of the hormones and the fact that she lays eggs. An inner jaw looking like a penis dripping with semen(cringe :-[), does not mean it is one.
I know it doesn't mean it is one, but I don't know if it doesn't mean it isn't one... ;)
wtf? (no not said in sheriff morales voice in case your wondering)
What I'm saying is:
There is no evidence to suggest it is a penis or whatever, but there is no evidence to suggest it isn't.
As SiL said in an earlier thread "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
that's just pure bullshit. Maybe that statement is true at certain times, but its like a lame excuse religious fanatics try to use to dismiss the fact that there is no evidence for god and never was. Same thing for bigfoot, angels..etc.
Its pretty obvious the inner jaw its not a reproductive organ. The only reason it looks like a penis is because H.R. Giger designed the alien. That's it, there's no need to probe any further. (ugghh.. probe..unintended pun..I must apologize for. lol.)
Fair enough. But I still stick by my opinion, which now makes sense seeing as that's the way Chet fires her baby juice down their throats. From her tongue/cock.
Yeah that seems like it would be the way the predalien does this vomiting thing. But its not been confirmed. I doubt it could ram the inner jaw down the throats of its hosts without killing them, so its most likely going to drool in them or squirt while close to their mouth. If she indeed "fires baby juice" it will look pretty disgusting but not terrifying. Especially if some of that "juice" gets on the hosts mouth as well and drips down.(once again, i apologize for the visuals.lol.)
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 08:49:16 PM
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 21, 2007, 08:45:27 PM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 08:43:01 PM
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 21, 2007, 08:40:15 PM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 08:35:27 PM
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 21, 2007, 08:33:54 PM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 08:32:21 PM
I am well aware of the sexual overtones to giger's designs, I even mentioned such a thing. But that however doesn't mean the aliens have penises. They are not male or female in any biological way in regards to reproduction, the queen is only a "She" because of the hormones and the fact that she lays eggs. An inner jaw looking like a penis dripping with semen(cringe :-[), does not mean it is one.
I know it doesn't mean it is one, but I don't know if it doesn't mean it isn't one... ;)
wtf? (no not said in sheriff morales voice in case your wondering)
What I'm saying is:
There is no evidence to suggest it is a penis or whatever, but there is no evidence to suggest it isn't.
As SiL said in an earlier thread "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
that's just pure bullshit. Maybe that statement is true at certain times, but its like a lame excuse religious fanatics try to use to dismiss the fact that there is no evidence for god and never was. Same thing for bigfoot, angels..etc.
Its pretty obvious the inner jaw its not a reproductive organ. The only reason it looks like a penis is because H.R. Giger designed the alien. That's it, there's no need to probe any further. (ugghh.. probe..unintended pun..I must apologize for. lol.)
Fair enough. But I still stick by my opinion, which now makes sense seeing as that's the way Chet fires her baby juice down their throats. From her tongue/cock.
Yeah that seems like it would be the way the predalien does this vomiting thing. But its not been confirmed. I doubt it could ram the inner jaw down the throats of its hosts without killing them, so its most likely going to drool in them or squirt while close to their mouth. If she indeed "fires baby juice" it will look pretty disgusting but not terrifying. Especially if some of that "juice" gets on the hosts mouth as well and drips down.(once again, i apologize for the visuals.lol.)
Facehuggs with the mandibles and a slides the tongue down the throat.
I think it facehuggs to with the mandibles and then regurgitates maybe more than one embryo into the host. I mean what's up with the nest of bursters? Anybody ever come out with any ideas for that?
But don't know. It will interesting to finally see.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:08:07 AM
Only movies are cannon. It's cool to pull ideas from comics and books but films are the end-all-be-all.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but AvP:R is not canon, and that's a fact.
We know that you just want to destroy and humiliate the Aliens turning them as weak and tiny monsters, but in the original movies these "new type" of tiny Aliens never existed.
That alone just proves how AvP:R is not canon.
In fact it even contradicts the first AvP, where the Aliens were alot bigger.
Quote from: echobbase79 on Nov 21, 2007, 10:15:47 PM
I think it facehuggs to with the mandibles and then regurgitates maybe more than one embryo into the host. I mean what's up with the nest of bursters? Anybody ever come out with any ideas for that?
Yeah, sure. A number of them sort of getting together for protection. Don't know why it needs to be any more complicated than that. :)
Lambert
might have still been alive. Ripley never checked for a beating heart or anything. She could have just presumed that her posture and obvious injuries, next to a very obviously dead Parker, must have meant that she was dead.
Ripley would not have left Lambert if there was a chance she was alive.
Whatever the Alien did to her, what Ripley saw indicated Lambert was obviously dead.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 22, 2007, 12:49:11 AM
Quote from: echobbase79 on Nov 21, 2007, 10:15:47 PM
I think it facehuggs to with the mandibles and then regurgitates maybe more than one embryo into the host. I mean what's up with the nest of bursters? Anybody ever come out with any ideas for that?
Yeah, sure. A number of them sort of getting together for protection. Don't know why it needs to be any more complicated than that. :)
Lambert might have still been alive. Ripley never checked for a beating heart or anything. She could have just presumed that her posture and obvious injuries, next to a very obviously dead Parker, must have meant that she was dead.
True, but speculation is fun. :)
Quote from: SM on Nov 22, 2007, 12:56:31 AM
Ripley would not have left Lambert if there was a chance she was alive.
Whatever the Alien did to her, what Ripley saw indicated Lambert was obviously dead.
There are plenty of instances where somebody can look f**ked up and, if unconscious, could be presumed dead, even though they are alive. Especially if right next to someone who
is obviously dead.
We don't know what Ripley saw and so this is always going to be open to interpretation.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 22, 2007, 01:43:00 AM
Quote from: SM on Nov 22, 2007, 12:56:31 AM
Ripley would not have left Lambert if there was a chance she was alive.
Whatever the Alien did to her, what Ripley saw indicated Lambert was obviously dead.
There are plenty of instances where somebody can look f**ked up and, if unconscious, could be presumed dead, even though they are alive. Especially if right next to someone who is obviously dead.
We don't know what Ripley saw and so this is always going to be open to interpretation.
However I think it was clear and intended in the script that she was killed. For all we know, she could have been hanging impaled on some kind of hook or chain.etc, and thus she'd be dead and useless in terms of any kind of impregnation even if she wasn't dead yet.
But why would she just leave her there like someone else said? The reason to me they don't show it is because the filmmakers wanted to hide what the alien did to her.
But I agree, interpretation is welcome in my court. Especially when it comes to the new Predalien lifecyle.
Quote from: echobbase79 on Nov 22, 2007, 01:48:47 AM
But why would she just leave her there like someone else said? The reason to me they don't show it is because the filmmakers wanted to hide what the alien did to her.
But I agree, interpretation is welcome in my court.
You scored points here...
QuoteEspecially when it comes to the new Predalien lifecyle.
Then lost them all here... ;D
Hehehehe! :P
Quote from: echobbase79 on Nov 22, 2007, 01:48:47 AM
But why would she just leave her there like someone else said? The reason to me they don't show it is because the filmmakers wanted to hide what the alien did to her.
But I agree, interpretation is welcome in my court. Especially when it comes to the new Predalien lifecyle.
Well its because the death was ambiguous, but not because ridley scott actually intended it to be the result of some grissly reproductive attempt that would actually result in more aliens. Otherwise that film would have been almost all headbite deaths, if something different didn't happen.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 22, 2007, 01:51:45 AM
[...] but not because ridley scott actually intended it to be the result of some grissly reproductive attempt that would actually result in more aliens.
We can but dream...
QuoteWe don't know what Ripley saw and so this is always going to be open to interpretation.
Only if one ignores common sense. Ripley was ready to try and help Dallas and look how f**ked up he was. Whatever happened to Lambert, Ripley knew she was dead otherwise she would've double checked before throwing the switches.
Quote from: Gates on Nov 22, 2007, 01:53:10 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 22, 2007, 01:51:45 AM
[...] but not because ridley scott actually intended it to be the result of some grissly reproductive attempt that would actually result in more aliens.
We can but dream...
I know, especially by your signature you like to think of it as "rape" but like I've said before, I doubt it was a reproductive process that killed her. She may have been violated by the tail in some way which seems likely as you see it creeping up her leg in the film, but there is no evidence to suggest, she was impregnated. Aliens don't have dicks nor do they have semen in their tails which they can inject into people.
I wonder what the actress who played lambert would think, if she visited this message board and saw all the posts about the whole "tail rape" thing. lol.
Rape isn't about knocking someone up.
Quote from: SM on Nov 22, 2007, 01:58:35 AM
Rape isn't about knocking someone up.
i know but, it also can't be literal sexual rape a la penis insertion into unwilling victim. It might be considered rape in a sense but not in a way that makes it possible to produce more aliens.
Quote from: SM on Nov 22, 2007, 01:54:13 AM
Only if one ignores common sense. Ripley was ready to try and help Dallas and look how f**ked up he was. Whatever happened to Lambert, Ripley knew she was dead otherwise she would've double checked before throwing the switches.
Dallas didn't have massively bleeding injuries.
Lambert obviously looked like she was, at the very least, as good
as dead. We just have no indication of just how extensive those injuries might have been. Ripley obviously caught sight of something horrific, but we're never shown what.
It's one of those things which has
just enough ambiguity for people to still be debating it on a global computer network, almost thirty years after it was put on film. :)
Lambert could have been in the most horrendous physical state, but that doesn't necessarily equate to lacking a heartbeat.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 22, 2007, 01:56:11 AM
I know, especially by your signature you like to think of it as "rape" but like I've said before, I doubt it was a reproductive process that killed her. She may have been violated by the tail in some way which seems likely as you see it creeping up her leg in the film, but there is no evidence to suggest, she was impregnated. Aliens don't have dicks nor do they have semen in their tails which they can inject into people.
Yeah you're right because of Jimbo's monumental fu<k up in
Aliens...if we were to rewind back to '79 and take the
Alien DC into account, all the bets are off...a sequel could of very easily explained that an alien tail-rapes a victim to induce the egg-morph...just as there is no evidence to suggest she was prego, there is no evidence to suggest that she was NOT prego... :)
But given the direction
Aliens went, I will concede that all that is obviously eliminated...
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 22, 2007, 02:04:30 AM
Quote from: SM on Nov 22, 2007, 01:54:13 AM
Only if one ignores common sense. Ripley was ready to try and help Dallas and look how f**ked up he was. Whatever happened to Lambert, Ripley knew she was dead otherwise she would've double checked before throwing the switches.
Dallas didn't have massively bleeding injuries.
Lambert obviously looked like she was, at the very least, as good as dead. We just have no indication of just how extensive those injuries might have been. Ripley obviously caught sight of something horrific, but we're never shown what.
It's one of those things which has just enough ambiguity for people to still be debating it on a global computer network, almost thirty years after it was put on film. :)
Lambert could have been in the most horrendous physical state, but that doesn't necessarily equate to lacking a heartbeat.
so she would be close enough to being dead to not be able to save anyway and get to the narcissus. There's no time to get sufficient medical attention to save a mutilated person dangling close to death. Hudson was most likely alive in his cocoon when the atmosphere processor exploded in Aliens, but it doesn't mean Ripley could have saved him.
Oh, come on.
We don't see Lambert because nothing they could show could be anywhere near as horrific as what we think she could look like. Dallas didn't even have a lower body and Ripley would've been more than willing to pull him out, and she was in the damned thing's lair! If there was an inkling of a chance Lambert was salvageable, we would'a seen it. But she wasn't.
To paraphrase Newt, she's dead, alright? Can we stop now?
'ken oath. There are limits to fence sitting.
Ripley even says to Lambert (though it was ultimately cut) that the reason she wanted to proceed with Dallas' plan rather than abandoning the ship was the chance that Dallas could be alive. If there was a chance to save Lambert - Ripley would've done it.
QuoteHudson was most likely alive in his cocoon when the atmosphere processor exploded in Aliens, but it doesn't mean Ripley could have saved him.
Hudson would've had a hugger about his bonce before Ripley got down to the sub level.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 22, 2007, 02:14:05 AM
Oh, come on.
We don't see Lambert because nothing they could show could be anywhere near as horrific as what we think she could look like. Dallas didn't even have a lower body and Ripley would've been more than willing to pull him out, and she was in the damned thing's lair! If there was an inkling of a chance Lambert was salvageable, we would'a seen it. But she wasn't.
To paraphrase Newt, she's dead, alright? Can we stop now?
Indeed I concur that she is dead.
Quote from: SM on Nov 22, 2007, 02:15:15 AM
'ken oath. There are limits to fence sitting.
QuoteHudson was most likely alive in his cocoon when the atmosphere processor exploded in Aliens, but it doesn't mean Ripley could have saved him.
Hudson would've had a hugger about his bonce before Ripley got down to the sub level.
yeah, he was most likely infected with a chestburster while the colony blew up, but was technically alive, that's all I meant. And really saying lambert or hudson were alive is rather pointless as their fate was sealed and Ripley would be wasting her time trying to save either one. That was my point.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 22, 2007, 02:14:05 AM
To paraphrase Newt, she's dead, alright? Can we stop now?
Agreed...but even you have to admit that a tail-rape leading to egg-morphing would have been miles more creative than the Queen idea...
Or unknown horribly grotesque process we never ever ever learn about leading to egg morphing would be more horrifying than watching the single biggest spiked dildo up the ass of the Alien franchise barfing babies down people's throats.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 22, 2007, 02:21:19 AM
Or unknown horribly grotesque process we never ever ever learn about leading to egg morphing would be more horrifying than watching the single biggest spiked dildo up the ass of the Alien franchise barfing babies down people's throats.
yeah good point. It would be better to not ever have vomiting and if egg morphing was used again, it should remain a mystery as to how it is initiated, therefore bullshit reasons can't be retroactively inserted into the first films events.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 22, 2007, 02:21:19 AM
Or unknown horribly grotesque process we never ever ever learn about leading to egg morphing
For fans with unfailing loyalty, yes...but you and I both know that the audiences would demand an explanation at some point in subsequent sequels...
Quotewould be more horrifying than watching the single biggest spiked dildo up the ass of the Alien franchise barfing babies down people's throats.
Agreed 100%...
Quote from: SM on Nov 22, 2007, 02:15:15 AM
'ken oath. There are limits to fence sitting.
Ripley even says to Lambert (though it was ultimately cut) that the reason she wanted to proceed with Dallas' plan rather than abandoning the ship was the chance that Dallas could be alive. If there was a chance to save Lambert - Ripley would've done it.
That still relies on her
knowing Lambert was dead, instead of presuming.
All we know was that the woman was bleeding and apparently held up on something. The human body can withstand amazing levels of mutilation before it physically gives out.
Ripley saw what she
thought must be a dead Lambert.
She did not necessarily
see one, even if the chances of it might have been high.
As ever, there was nothing 100% about the scene. We see Ripley's reaction being to simply recoil. She
assumes Lambert is dead. She might even be right. There's just no proof of it on screen.
Heck, let's say Lambert had half her intestines pulled out of her vagina, was missing a lower jaw and had all the skin from her face peeled away. That's no guarantee of death, but I'm sure if that's what Ripley saw, she would have thought it was - even if Lambert might be in shock and comatose.
I know I wouldn't be checking for a pulse on something as messed up as that.
It's all about wiggle room. Was there enough for Lambert to potentially be gestating the same thing inside as Dallas was? Yeah. Is it likely? Probably not. But 'probably' doesn't matter when it comes to crafting future stories.
And if we take Brett into consideration, Lambert need not have even needed to survive the process.
Scott claims Ripley had incentive to destroy the Nostromo because Lambert was harboring one within and there would soon be more. God knows how she would know something like this just from seeing Lambert mutilated, but...hmm. Well, it does lead to the question of "what Ripley exactly saw," but that's up in the air. We just know she apparently no longer had pants, was dripping blood, and sported some toe re-arrangement via the Alien's tender touch.
Regardless, we have an answer. Ultimately, it's not even needed. We could just say Ripley thought it was a good idea to kill the immediate threat, and got far away from the explosion she figured would do just that as per Lambert's suggestion. The details of whether Lambert was implanted, egg morphed, comatose, or just vanilla variety dead are made moot by the giant technicolor explosion we see.
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 21, 2007, 08:12:09 PM
Quote from: SiL on Nov 21, 2007, 08:09:31 PM
Then you haven't read the old thread enough. And being that Lambert is well and truly dead, I doubt it used her to reproduce. So can we please stop trying to retcon Alien for this shitty idea and move on to more pressing matters, like the colour of Wolf's crotch?
The Ox was dead in Alien 3. Alien's don't necessarily need live hosts to be incubated. That being said, it's never shown clearly whether Lambert's dead or not, she could be unconscious for all we know.
The Ox may have been dead when we see it though its not easy to tell, but it must have been alive long enough for the chestburster to develope otherwise Alien 3 would be contradicting itself....case in point, Ripley sacrifised herself because she believed, though obviously didnt know, the Queen inside her couldn't be if she were to die. A theory that derived from and became all the more significant in ALIENS, as Ripley realises the creatures dont always killm and that Newt is being kept alive for a reason.
Quote from: RoaryUK on Nov 22, 2007, 02:47:24 AMThe Ox may have been dead when we see it though its not easy to tell, but it must have been alive long enough for the chestburster to develope otherwise Alien 3 would be contradicting itself....case in point, Ripley sacrifised herself because she believed, though obviously didnt know, the Queen inside her couldn't be if she were to die. A theory that derived from and became all the more significant in ALIENS, as Ripley realises the creatures dont always killm and that Newt is being kept alive for a reason.
I don't see why Ripley killing herself is significant to the events of
Alien: Resurrection in the way you seem to be insinuating. She thought she was destroying it because it was vulnerable. They cloned it in
Resurrection, but that doesn't have anything to do with it being a Queen so much as simply getting a Ripley clone that had an Alien in her. Maybe that's not what you're saying, but it sort of sounds like it. Just to clarify.
As for why the Alien of the third film didn't kill her? All we know was that it was because it couldn't risk harming the Queen within her. Perhaps it is biologically predisposed to avoid any sort of trauma to the host of a Queen to ensure the potential of the species' survival. That doesn't necessarily mean it couldn't kill her because the Queen and host's lives were tethered to one another.
Furthermore, I don't see how Newt or any other living soul who has been captured for implantation relates to this. I don't think we can assume the ox was dead when the facehugger implanted it. All we know is that it died, and a super-facehugger was found nearby. If we go by what previous films have shown, the ox could have been implanted and then died shortly thereafter.
Just a thought but, I'd love to be able to see the 3 hour version of ALIEN. I've no doubt it still exists and I'm equally curious as to wether the Strauss Bros would have had access to it, not so much for continuity but to get ideas from, because so many of us know so much was filmed and never shown. I don't ever want to go back to the Space Jockey theories, but I do want to know what would have happened to Dallas & Brett before Ripley flamed them, and I'm glad the makers of the new movie are brave enough to tackle it. The egg morphing scene was always going to be debatable no matter how its explained, I know myself having written an Alien 5 to tie up the loose ends, but having gone through this thread and reading Colin's comments I'm feeling a lot easier about seeing something new.
Quote from: RoaryUK on Nov 22, 2007, 02:47:24 AMThe Ox may have been dead when we see it though its not easy to tell, but it must have been alive long enough for the chestburster to develope otherwise Alien 3 would be contradicting itself....case in point, Ripley sacrifised herself because she believed, though obviously didnt know, the Queen inside her couldn't be if she were to die. A theory that derived from and became all the more significant in ALIENS, as Ripley realises the creatures dont always killm and that Newt is being kept alive for a reason.
I don't see why Ripley killing herself is significant to the events of Alien: Resurrection in the way you seem to be insinuating. She thought she was destroying it because it was vulnerable. They cloned it in Resurrection, but that doesn't have anything to do with it being a Queen so much as simply getting a Ripley clone that had an Alien in her. Maybe that's not what you're saying, but it sort of sounds like it. Just to clarify.I never said Ripley killing herself was significant to A:R, how could it be when she sacrifices herself to stop the Company getting the alien and so end any possibility of A:R happening. What I'm saying is it's significant to ALIENS because this is when Ripley realises the aliens victims are not being killed but taken to be impregnated, deliberately kept alive so that the process can be complete and how she was able to save Newt. This obviously translates to Ripley's reasoning in Alien 3 in that, if she sacrifices herself before the Queen is born, then it will perish with her. Wether it's actually so is open to debate, but note Ripley's first choice was to ask Dillon to kill her, so for me that suggests she believed her death would also be the end of the Queen.
As for why the Alien of the third film didn't kill her? All we know was that it was because it couldn't risk harming the Queen within her. Perhaps it is biologically predisposed to avoid any sort of trauma to the host of a Queen to ensure the potential of the species' survival. That doesn't necessarily mean it couldn't kill her because the Queen and host's lives were tethered to one another.Don't think this was directed at me but I actually agree anyway.
Not sure is this was actually directed at me as I never mentioned it, in fact I totally agree.
Furthermore, I don't see how Newt or any other living soul who has been captured for implantation relates to this. I don't think we can assume the ox was dead when the facehugger implanted it. All we know is that it died, and a super-facehugger was found nearby. If we go by what previous films have shown, the ox could have been implanted and then died shortly thereafter.Same again here as far as the ox is concerned, I just think it was badly executed and possibly why Fincher decided to remove the whole scene, although I think you should bare in mind the SuperFace Hugger is still reguarded as canon, but I think it's about time it wasn't. Have something cable of laying 2 embyo's, one of them being a Queen, always made a lot of sense to me.
Ripley also believed that the Aliens were not indigenous to LV-426.
QuoteINSURANCE MAN
(to ECA Rep)
Are there any species like this
'hostile organism' on LV-426?
ECA REP
No. It's a rock. No indigenous
life larger than a simple virus.
Ripley grits her teeth in frustration.
RIPLEY
I told you, it wasn't indigenous.
There was an alien spacecraft there.
A derelict ship. We homed on its
beacon...
So is that a flaw on Cameron's part? How could she make such a statement straight off of the bat with all the confusion in
Alien as to the origin of the eggs that goes unresolved in the chaos of leaving the planet ASAP and dealing with the creature soon after? It's not simply Fincher who has made Ripley blurt out an assumption, especially one she wouldn't be clear on given anything we've seen with her up until
Alien3. The only thing she's seen is that full body immolation kills both Alien and host alike. She might have assumed that having Dillon kill her would have put a stop to it, but that's an assumption based off of nothing we've seen in the films. Even that may not have stopped the Queen chestburster from coming out.
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Nov 22, 2007, 03:51:31 AM
Ripley also believed that the Aliens were not indigenous to LV-426.
QuoteINSURANCE MAN
(to ECA Rep)
Are there any species like this
'hostile organism' on LV-426?
ECA REP
No. It's a rock. No indigenous
life larger than a simple virus.
Ripley grits her teeth in frustration.
RIPLEY
I told you, it wasn't indigenous.
There was an alien spacecraft there.
A derelict ship. We homed on its
beacon...
So is that a flaw on Cameron's part? How could she make such a statement straight off of the bat with all the confusion in Alien as to the origin of the eggs that goes unresolved in the chaos of leaving the planet ASAP and dealing with the creature soon after? It's not simply Fincher who has made Ripley blurt out an assumption, especially one she wouldn't be clear on given anything we've seen with her up until Alien3. The only thing she's seen is that full body immolation kills both Alien and host alike. She might have assumed that having Dillon kill her would have put a stop to it, but that's an assumption based off of nothing we've seen in the films. Even that may not have stopped the Queen chestburster from coming out.
I don't think Cameron made a mistake but I see where your coming from. Its always been assumed by Ridley Scott the ship was not from there, he had the idea it would somehow be revealed the Space Jockeys had been transporting the eggs in some kind of "bomber" space craft and that they were in fact hostile....but the studio was against it and wanted the mystery left alone. As for Ripley she assumed it based on footage that supposedly was filmed where the crew discuss that very possibility, certainly thats the only reason I can give. As for the other assumption you mention about Alien 3, I'm just guessing like everyone else that Ripley sees the cocoon in ALIENS, that the Colonists appear to be kept in restraint (and therefore alive), and by the time of Alien 3 has the idea if she kills herself then she will also kill the undeveloped Queen. You're right, we haven't actually seen anything concrete but I never said we had, I said what she DID see and that she made a logical assumption from there, that the Alien "possibly" needs the host alive in order for the embryo to grow.
I'm guessing it's going back to the roots in the sense of style.
Quote from: Xenonewborn on Nov 22, 2007, 04:24:25 AM
I'm guessing it's going back to the roots in the sense of style.
Personally I don't think they're really going back to anything and just making it up as they go along. Certainly the style can be nothing like anything we've seen before because its in a town setting. The impression I get, from reading Colin's comments on this very thread, is that the "roots" they speak of is based on a combination of 2 things, That which we haven't seen but know exists, such as the fact there are 2 creatues in Alien 3 (A drone and a Queen) yet we only ever see one face hugger, and also what we have seen partially but dont know how or why, such as the Dallas/Brett cocoon sequence which, reguardless of wether you view it as canon (which is the one area I disagree with Colin), it is an important issue non-the-less and could make or break AvP-R because of the possible repercussions.
Quote from: Robotpo on Nov 20, 2007, 10:42:23 PM
Just out of curiosity, how does this look like it's "going back to the roots"? This is the phrase we've heard used the most to describe this film, from everyone from the Bros. Strause, (repeatedly & extensively), to Tom Rothman, (head of Fox), to various cast & crew on the film, ETC. HOWEVER, nothing in the movie even look remotely like the original films;l in fact, I think it's safe to say AVP-R is going further from "the roots," than ever before:
-Characters. Original films, "Alien/Aliens/Predator/Predator 2," all had ADULT characters with unique professions/character arcs, involving motivations, and were played by, with the exception of Predator, talented actors. AVP-R has a bunch of Colorado hicks in a hick town who, instead of piloting deep-space ore refineries, deliver pizza
-Story. The original films all has original, classic stories of suspense and horror. Even the first AVP had a better plot than this. AVP-R seems to have no coherent narrative, and amounts to a bunch of unrelated incidents of people running around being attacked by aliens/predators in their hick town.
-Locations. All of the previous Alien/Predator films had visually stimulating and detailed, well-conceived locations. Nostromo, Hadley's Hope, Fury 161, the Auriga, South American jungle, war-torn 1997 LA, Antarctica..now an unbelievably bland Colorado town, (which, like most productions shot in Canada, is bland as only a Canada-based production can be), and is poorly designed, shot and edited, from everything we've seen so far, (which is more than enough).
-Themes. The Alien films all were more than met the eye, (especially the first two), and dealt with themes of sexuality, corporate maleficence, family, the nature of man, ETC. Even the first two Predator's had government conspiracy angles, making our "protectors," just as dangerous to the heroes as the Predator itself. AVP-R is obviously absent of all this more complex layering and metaphor in exchange for BAS-ASS chaotic gore and teenagers waggling their boobies at each other, (and possibly, the aliens)
Subtlety- The original films all had a fair amount of physiological horror and Lovecraftian unease. Alien and Aliens weren't gory at all; they established how destructive the creatures were, then let your mind fill in the blanks. AVP-R, well..does not. I'm very impressed with the CGI gore, though. Oh wait, no I'm not. ::)
-The cast and crew of the first Alien films were top-notch people who loved the craft and art of film, and who had genuinely interesting things to say in their work. Predator 1/2 also had the benefit of Stan Winston, Alan Silvestri, great cinematography, ETC. AVP-R has a bunch of 3rd and 4th rate actors who've been in a couple of 2nd-tier TV shows, a guy from the OC, the screenwriter of "Shaft," the composer of "Fast and the Furious 3," and two-first time directors who aspire to be the guy that did "300." Oy.
-The creatures themselves. The Original Alien/predator films obviously defined how aliens and predators looked and behaved. AVP-R gives us the worst/cheapest-looking aliens ever, a Predator that's anorexic and doesn't even begin to have the character and charisma that Kevin Peter Hall endowed it with, and a PredAlien that looks like something from a d-level parody of "Alien." The creatures looked better 30 years ago.
Overall, I don't see how AVP-R is closer to the roots. When they Strausi say this, I think they mean that after ONE, (count it, ONE), PG-13 film, they're going back to being rated-R, (which in this day and age, seems to mean excessive gore and swearing instead of a plot or actual horror). And to be perfectly honest, after watching those Reelz.com interviews with the Strausi, I don't think they know what made Alien or Predator appealing in the first place. ???
Is this just me...?
i beleive that they r going back 2 the roots because they r giving the original sound e fects to the aliens and making the predators much more life like other than AVP
Sound effects do not 'the roots' make...
what could they do to go back to the roots, other than what a new setting would bring. (They are stuck with what they got)
This is excluding peoples bullshit complaints about height.
If author intentions actually got listened to then we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place because the Brothers wouldn't have made this new life-cycle.
Lambert getting impregnated by the Alien's tail could be possible, if the tail was able to enject semen into the victim's body. Maybe the tail functions as being able to paralyze and impregnate or the tail stung Lambert and then the Alien "regurgitated" in her mouth. I always thought that tail of being a stinger of sorts and having some kind of paralyzine poison at the tip. Yes, I know the tail also impales enemies, but that's just another ability of the tail, obviously, for self-defense.
What if the egg-morphing method begins with the tail? The face-hugger oral rapes its victims when they are alive, maybe the full-grown Alien has its own way to "rape" its victims by injecting something through its tail or paralyzing its victims with its tail and then is able to "regurgitate" into their mouths.
Who's not to say that after killing Parker, it also began the egg-morphing process with him? There were two people the Alien killed in the same area, so maybe, instead of taking the time to haul them back to the "hive", it quickly killed them and began the egg-morphing process right there, possibly through the stinging of the tail or maybe it "regurgitated" in their mouths.
Why was Lambert's body hanging?
As we saw in Alien, it killed Brett and then began the egg-morphing prcoess, so maybe the Alien kills to get its fill of food and then begins the egg-morphing process. So, this egg-morphing process would have to do with either paralyzing or killing its victims, first.
In AVP-R, with the shot of the woman in the hospital bed and the PredAlien near her, we can certainly tell that the PredAlien is probably going to do the "regurgitation". We don't know what is wrong with that woman in the hospital bed, so she probably can't move for some reason.
We can bitch and complain about this new regurgitation method, but I'm really curious of how it will look on-screen.
Also, in Alien 3, before the Alien and Ripley have their first "encounter", why wasn't the Alien starting the egg-morphing process?
If there was no Queen, what would've the Alien done to keep the reproduction going?
Did the Alien know there was a Queen chestburster growing, before it encountered Ripley?
Did the Alien not care about reproduction and was just focused on killing/eating everything in its path?
Quote from: gameoverman on Nov 21, 2007, 01:20:03 PM
Quote from: Clyde Wyman on Nov 21, 2007, 12:09:04 PM
1.Some elements not being faithful to the comics and video games (reasonable argument, I can accept that)
People are complaining it isn't faithful to the movies, not comics and video games.
Quote2. No violence, gore and sex (If you are watching the movie just to watch these three, then I'm sorry. You are not a true Alien and Predator fan, suggest you join the sex club instead. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a fair share of blood and gore in films but as far as watching movie just to see violence is concerned, that's not my idea of enjoying a movie)
No smart person here wants sex in an Alien or Predator movie. Not excessive violence either. Just a movie that stays true to the roots of the franchise, not a dumbed down kids movie.
I copy that gameoverman, but apparently, Paul Anderson's AVP movie is the first one in the AVP movie franchise. If people argued that the storyline of the movie isn't the same as the comic books, I can accept that. But unfortunately for some retards who only watch a movie just to see violence and sex, they aren't truly enjoying a movie and it's storyline. Which makes them sad pandas.
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Nov 22, 2007, 09:08:13 AM
Also, in Alien 3, before the Alien and Ripley have their first "encounter", why wasn't the Alien starting the egg-morphing process?
We never see what it's doing with the hosts.
Well, that's true. If I remember, the Alien killed two prisoners, before encountering Ripley. The second kill (candles scene) could've been the start of egg-morphing.
Again, if there was no Queen in Alien 3, and if the writers didn't think about the egg-morphing, how do you think the Alien would've reproduced?
Egg morphing, because the writers had put it in as a scene that got deleted for budget reasons.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 22, 2007, 10:08:32 AM
Egg morphing, because the writers had put it in as a scene that got deleted for budget reasons.
You're talking about Alien 3? I didn't know there was a cocoon/egg-morphing scene written in the Alien 3 script.
The egg-morphing/cocoon scene in Alien was deleted, because of pacing issues, according to Ridley.
I wonder how did the Wolf Predator gets it's runes on the top of his mask. Probably it's a well-respected hunter and had hunted many hunts.
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Nov 22, 2007, 09:04:45 AM
Why was Lambert's body hanging?
It could have been placed laying down on something, with the leg just hanging over the side.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 22, 2007, 09:21:25 AM
We never see what it's doing with the hosts.
Unfortunately, '
Alien Resurrection' killed that possibility. The end credits of '
Alien 3' have Weyland-Yutani taking the prison apart and while there was some room for saying they might have secretly recovered cocoons, the next film took the unnecessary step of leaping forward a century or so and showing the Aliens had still not been encountered by the public.
There could always be an allusion to such an experiment happening, getting out of hand and someone self-destructing the facility, only for it to later be covered up, of course.
Which actually gives me an interesting idea for a sequel, if the place was bricked up or whatever and found by later explorers of it...
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 22, 2007, 04:28:28 PM
Unfortunately, 'Alien Resurrection' killed that possibility.
Not necessarily. The tunnels that the prisoners work in are miles and miles long, and WY only knew about two Aliens - The dog-born and the Queen. It's not
too unreasonable to assume they wouldn't have gone looking for eggs because it would take a long time, and they have no reason to look anyway since the Queen never got born.
It's a crapload more reasonable than the derelict being intact! :P
Quote from: SiL on Nov 22, 2007, 08:00:38 PM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 22, 2007, 04:28:28 PM
Unfortunately, 'Alien Resurrection' killed that possibility.
Not necessarily. The tunnels that the prisoners work in are miles and miles long, and WY only knew about two Aliens - The dog-born and the Queen. It's not too unreasonable to assume they wouldn't have gone looking for eggs because it would take a long time, and they have no reason to look anyway since the Queen never got born.
It's a crapload more reasonable than the derelict being intact! :P
Indeed. My Alien Versus Predator fan fiction in the making is all about an egg that was not found on Fury 161.
Here are some questions/problems I have with the Alien movies/AVP-R. Now, I know some of the ideas were brought up, AFTER Alien, but still, some of these ideas that came after Alien are still contradicting...
1. How did the Derelict arrive on LV-426? Were the Jockey's carrying the Alien eggs already, or did they find the Alien eggs on LV-426?
2. How did WY know about the Alien species in ALIEN, before the Nostromo investigated LV-426/Derelict?
3. If Alien drones can molt into Queens, why ddin't the Alien in ALIEN molt into a Queen?
4. Why did the Alien kill Parker and Lambert and not use them as egg-morphing hosts?
5. How come the Alien in Alien 3 didn't use the egg-morphing process, before encountering Riplley?
6. Why didn't the Alien in Alien 3 capture/cocoon Ripley?
7. Why didn't the Alien in Alien 3 kill Ripley and allow the Queen to emerge from her dead body, if we are to believe that chestbursters can burst from dead bodies (Scar, for example)?
8. How is it possible that one facehugger impregnated two hosts in Alien 3? If it had the two drone and Queen embryos in both of those sacs, then why didn't it do the same in ALIEN?
9. Did the Queen lay one final egg on the Sulaco? If so, did she lay the egg, because it carried a Queen embryo, therefore, she layed that egg as a last resort to carry on the species?
10. Did the Queen in Alien: Resurrection use an egg-sac?
11. Was the face-hugger that attacked Newt's father, the Queen carrier?
12. How was the Queen burster cloned through Ripley's blood? Isn't that too far of a stretch to have mixed the Alien blood, with hers?
Wow... You're right. I just checked.
The actually facility is just "closed and sealed", with the "remaining refinery equipment" being what is "sold as scrap".
Even so, I find it difficult to imagine Weyland-Yutani didn't go over that place with a fine toothcomb, in the hope of at least getting something for their efforts, even if only genetic fragments from the resin they would have known the things make. It would only have required sending in some robotic drones of the type no doubt standard for checking all their spaceships over for wear and tear, by that time.
A lot of those questions reflect the very ambiguity of intriguing possibilities which made the films so famous. :)
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Nov 22, 2007, 08:17:12 PM
How did the Derelict arrive on LV-426? Were the Jockey's carrying the Alien eggs already, or did they find the Alien eggs on LV-426?
There was no indication of whether the derelict truly was a ship, as Ripley presumes, or was just a building.
QuoteHow did WY know about the Alien species in ALIEN, before the Nostromo investigated LV-426/Derelict?
Perhaps from decrypting more of the warning than Ripley had been able to.
QuoteIf Alien drones can molt into Queens, why ddin't the Alien in ALIEN molt into a Queen?
Before '
Alien 3', that was a possibility, because of how it behaved in the shuttle. As others have been bringing up, however, it was not showing nearly the same clues of it gradually doing so as the Predalien is.
QuoteWhy did the Alien kill Parker and Lambert and not use them as egg-morphing hosts?
We don't know what happened to Lambert, but Parker marked himself out as a threat in need of elimination.
Ripley, however, might have been intended as a victim for the recent hive eggs.
QuoteWhy didn't the Alien in Alien 3 capture/cocoon Ripley?
Danger of physically injuring her in the process.
QuoteWhy didn't the Alien in Alien 3 kill Ripley and allow the Queen to emerge from her dead body, if we are to believe that chestbursters can burst from dead bodies (Scar, for example)?
Queens appear to need more devlopment time.
However, close to the hatching, it appeared to decide the benefits of killing outweighed the costs of not doing so.
QuoteHow is it possible that one facehugger impregnated two hosts in Alien 3? If it had the two drone and Queen embryos in both of those sacs, then why didn't it do the same in ALIEN?
We only see one egg, but there could have been more than that. The 'superfacehugger' idea is also possibly valid for future stories to confirm.
QuoteDid the Queen in Alien: Resurrection use an egg-sac?
Yes. It changes.
Quote
1. How did the Derelict arrive on LV-426? Were the Jockey's carrying the Alien eggs already, or did they find the Alien eggs on LV-426?
Unknown and ultimately irrelevant.
Quote2. How did WY know about the Alien species in ALIEN, before the Nostromo investigated LV-426/Derelict?
They didn't. They knew about a signal that warned space travellers away from LV-42 because of a hostile organism.
Quote3. If Alien drones can molt into Queens, why ddin't the Alien in ALIEN molt into a Queen?
They can't molt into Queens. Unless you factor in mindless AvP-R rubbish.
Quote4. Why did the Alien kill Parker and Lambert and not use them as egg-morphing hosts?
You don't have to be alive to be morphed into an egg.
Quote5. How come the Alien in Alien 3 didn't use the egg-morphing process, before encountering Riplley?
Maybe it did. 10 square miles of tunnels. Either way unknown.
Quote6. Why didn't the Alien in Alien 3 capture/cocoon Ripley?
Unknown. Gestation time would suggest Ripley may have dehydrated being stuck to a wall and possibly damaged the embryo.
Quote7. Why didn't the Alien in Alien 3 kill Ripley and allow the Queen to emerge from her dead body, if we are to believe that chestbursters can burst from dead bodies (Scar, for example)?
Gestation time again.
Quote8. How is it possible that one facehugger impregnated two hosts in Alien 3? If it had the two drone and Queen embryos in both of those sacs, then why didn't it do the same in ALIEN?
Ultimately unknown. Maybe another host wasn't readily available on the Nostromo and it expired before it could. Maybe it couldn't at all and the hugger on the Sulaco was a special hugger.
Quote9. Did the Queen lay one final egg on the Sulaco? If so, did she lay the egg, because it carried a Queen embryo, therefore, she layed that egg as a last resort to carry on the species?
Maybe. Or she carried it up from the hive.
Quote10. Did the Queen in Alien: Resurrection use an egg-sac?
More than likely.
Quote11. Was the face-hugger that attacked Newt's father, the Queen carrier?
More than likely not.
Quote12. How was the Queen burster cloned through Ripley's blood? Isn't that too far of a stretch to have mixed the Alien blood, with hers?
Obviously not.
I agree with Yellow Alien on which points take this movie "back to the roots". And those very things are what has me excited to see this movie. But I have to disagree with you Robot. You don't need A-list actors to make a good movie. Are you serious? Times were different back then. They cast guys like Arnold, and Danny Glover because it seemed cool at the time to pit the predator against this one elite human warrior, and his band of comrades. The whole time you know that this person is gonna at least survive till the end, if not entirely. With the exception of "Alien", you know Sigourney Weaver is the major player. Too predictable. I'm not bashing the origionals, I love all of them with the exception of Res, which I just LIKE, I'm just sayin that nowadays I'm lookin for unpredictability, and shock. With a cast of newcomers like what we have in AVP-R, we should be guessing who's gonna survive until the last half of the movie.
Quote from: ShadowPred on Nov 21, 2007, 01:42:58 AM
Quote from: highlandpred on Nov 21, 2007, 01:42:29 AM
I find it funny the alien hardcores can believe an alien can take a mans body and turn it into an egg with a live facehugger inside (WTF!?) but an alien planting an embryo inside a man is lame.... :D
go figure.. ???
Ignorance
Explain why his quote is ignorant, Dr. F*cking Shadow Pred!
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 21, 2007, 01:43:36 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:37:48 AM
Quote from: Gates on Nov 21, 2007, 01:35:56 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:32:11 AM
If it's the director's vision for the film, then it's cannon.
I'm not questioning that...I find it hysterical that you would say that, considering you decided to ignore egg-morphing in favor of this regurgitation nonsense...
Well, since we didn't see the beginning or the end of that scene in Alien, it's totally open to what actually happened off screen.
I think it is safe to say that by the end of that scene the alien had not started molting into a queen. I mean you see it in the narcissus before Ripley blasts it out the airlock. There is also no evidence to suggest that egg-morphing is iniated by vomiting any kind of goo into the victim's mouth.
And likewise detective Ballzy, there's no evidence that shows the alien DIDN'T regurgitate into Brett, and Dallas's mouths. Like the good Lt. said, you guys can condone an alien making an egg out of a man, but you can't accept this new form of reproduction? What, does the slimey bastard do then? Spit and Shit some corosive substance all over the host, roll them into ovals, and cocoon them on the wall? Gimmie a f*ckin break.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:37:48 AM
Quote from: Gates on Nov 21, 2007, 01:35:56 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:32:11 AM
If it's the director's vision for the film, then it's cannon.
I'm not questioning that...I find it hysterical that you would say that, considering you decided to ignore egg-morphing in favor of this regurgitation nonsense...
Well, since we didn't see the beginning or the end of that scene in Alien, it's totally open to what actually happened off screen.
Thank you. It can't be said any better than that!
Quote from: Wolf Sazen on Nov 22, 2007, 11:20:03 PM
I agree with Yellow Alien on which points take this movie "back to the roots". And those very things are what has me excited to see this movie. But I have to disagree with you Robot. You don't need A-list actors to make a good movie. Are you serious? Times were different back then. They cast guys like Arnold, and Danny Glover because it seemed cool at the time to pit the predator against this one elite human warrior, and his band of comrades. The whole time you know that this person is gonna at least survive till the end, if not entirely. With the exception of "Alien", you know Sigourney Weaver is the major player. Too predictable. I'm not bashing the origionals, I love all of them with the exception of Res, which I just LIKE, I'm just sayin that nowadays I'm lookin for unpredictability, and shock. With a cast of newcomers like what we have in AVP-R, we should be guessing who's gonna survive until the last half of the movie.
Unpredictability and shock huh... I think thats more true than you realize.
Id rather guarantee a good actor and know hell survive as opposed to gamble on a movie that could kill BOTH franchises and not know who will survive. The suspense definitely is NOT worth a game of Russian Roulette. You can have it. I want the franchise.
Are people truly realizing the
DANGER this franchise is in? Its like being underwater for too long. Get some oxygen soon or else its over.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 21, 2007, 01:46:09 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:37:48 AM
Well, since we didn't see the beginning or the end of that scene in Alien, it's totally open to what actually happened off screen.
With respect, I have to disagree. They're cocooned for something and if it was merely to hold them (why?), Dallas wouldn't have been nearly so sickly or asking for death, etcetera. He would have simply been pulled out, like Newt was.
And it's damn obvious that a lot more than mere cocooning happened with Brett, wouldn't you say?
Brett was already dead from the headbite right?
Quote from: Wolf Sazen on Nov 22, 2007, 11:53:06 PM
Thank you. It can't be said any better than that!
It could be better thought out. These guys aren't just hosting babies, they're turning into eggs. Chet barfs babies. Original Alien made eggs. Totally different.
Its not vomit, its more like rape through the mouth.
Egg morphing is still scarier.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 23, 2007, 12:09:33 AM
Egg morphing is still scarier.
I don't know why but the idea of being morphed into an egg sounds way less painful than being chestbursted.
Morphing takes hours. Bursting takes seconds.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 23, 2007, 12:36:01 AM
Morphing takes hours. Bursting takes seconds.
but still, it's like, hmm, would I rather be turned into an egg almost painlessley, think about it, your bodies changing, not being ripped to shreds, or go through about 2 minutes of nonstop extreme pain.
Look, I get a little passionate when it comes to this shit, so, I don't wanna sound like I'm bashing the egg morphing idea, I'm just sayin that the regurgitation method is equally horrific and discgusting, and for the alien, I think it only add's to their disturbing array of qualities.
Quote from: Xenonewborn on Nov 23, 2007, 12:42:52 AM
but still, it's like, hmm, would I rather be turned into an egg almost painlessley, think about it, your bodies changing, not being ripped to shreds, or go through about 2 minutes of nonstop extreme pain.
Have you watched the scene? Dallas is in
agony.
Ever had stomach cramp? It would be like that, except much, much worse - and you might even stay alive until the moment it hatches.
Incidentally...
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Nov 22, 2007, 08:17:12 PM
1. How did the Derelict arrive on LV-426? Were the Jockey's carrying the Alien eggs already, or did they find the Alien eggs on LV-426?
There are numerous ideas but, according to Ridley Scott, the Alien Eggs where being transported by the Space Jockey's from their homeworld when an Alien escaped causing the ship to crash on LV 426.
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Nov 22, 2007, 08:17:12 PM
2. How did WY know about the Alien species in ALIEN, before the Nostromo investigated LV-426/Derelict?
No one really knows. But it's clear they new before the Nostromo left Thedus because Ash was assigned as replacement Science Officer under SPECIAL ORDER 937, in which the Nostromo was re-routed to the then unknown LV426, to secure whatever was on the planetoid, even at the expense of the crew.
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Nov 22, 2007, 08:17:12 PM
3. If Alien drones can molt into Queens, why ddin't the Alien in ALIEN molt into a Queen?
The orginal idea for ALIEN was the creature would implant its seed into various members of the Nostromo crew MORRPHING them in Alien Eggs. Indeed, Ridley Scott once stated that the eggs on board the Derelict were in fact once its crew. Since the sequel however ideas quickly changed, and it's now generally (and more logically) accepted the original Alien was in the process of creating a Queen using the host.
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Nov 22, 2007, 08:17:12 PM
4. Why did the Alien kill Parker and Lambert and not use them as egg-morphing hosts?
Parker is thought to have been killed by the Alien as a source of food for its brood. The same fate may well have been for Lambert, however, having not seen a female human, it's clear the Alien found her somehow fascinating and may have attempted to rape her. Note Lambert's bare leg can be clearly seen dangling when Ripley finds her, yet she was fully clothed before the attack.
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Nov 22, 2007, 08:17:12 PM
5. How come the Alien in Alien 3 didn't use the egg-morphing process, before encountering Riplley?
There's no reason to suggest it didn't since we never see what happens to the prisoners after the alien captures them. However, since the Alien Queen was already in place, there's logically no need so it's sole purpose became to protect her.
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Nov 22, 2007, 08:17:12 PM
6. Why didn't the Alien in Alien 3 capture/cocoon Ripley?
Interesting question since previously in ALIENS hosts were deliberately captured and restrained ready to be impregnated. Obviously this already happened in Alien 3, but the creature had numerous oppertunities to take Ripley and didn't. Aware the Queen was inside her and pressumably of the threat she might kill herself and/or the Queen, I always found it strange the Alien seemed reluctant to do anything.
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Nov 22, 2007, 08:17:12 PM
7. Why didn't the Alien in Alien 3 kill Ripley and allow the Queen to emerge from her dead body, if we are to believe that chestbursters can burst from dead bodies (Scar, for example)?
Well, this is a problem with AvP really (and Alien 3's Ox-Burster to a certain extent) as its always been assumed the Alien Embryo can't develop inside a dead host, and why Ripley sacrificed herself, before it could burst from her in the first place. If you ask that you may as well question why is there a hive at all??
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Nov 22, 2007, 08:17:12 PM
8. How is it possible that one facehugger impregnated two hosts in Alien 3? If it had the two drone and Queen embryos in both of those sacs, then why didn't it do the same in ALIEN?
There are several theories sadly, despite being a great movie, Alien 3 is a mess when it comes to canon. The most likely explaination is a new creature called a Super Face Hugger, which was able to impregnate 2 hosts, one with a Queen embryo the other with a regular Alien to protect it. The reason we don't see this in Alien, disreguarding the Alien Queen came after, is because the Super Face Hugger comes from a special egg she most likely creates seperately, but of course no Queen was around in ALIEN anyway.
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Nov 22, 2007, 08:17:12 PM
9. Did the Queen lay one final egg on the Sulaco? If so, did she lay the egg, because it carried a Queen embryo, therefore, she layed that egg as a last resort to carry on the species?
More than likely. (see No8 above)
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Nov 22, 2007, 08:17:12 PM
10. Did the Queen in Alien: Resurrection use an egg-sac?
Unknown, but since she was in captivity it's unlikely because the scientists appear to have complete control over the breeding process. It's only when the Aliens escape we see her nest, which is NOT in the same location she was being held and now appears to be part of the hive. I doubt the Alien Queen would make another nest since, by then, she had already entered her second cycle.
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Nov 22, 2007, 08:17:12 PM
11. Was the face-hugger that attacked Newt's father, the Queen carrier?
No, and not just because the Super Face Hugger hadn't been invented yet. Cameron was aware of the then unseen "egg morphing" scene in ALIEN, and it's suggested his ideas were she was either created like the original Alien morphed Brett into a Queen, or the alien born from Jorden "molted" into a Queen, later joined by other Aliens from another group of colonists sent out to investigate the Derelict, who inevitably met with the same fate.
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Nov 22, 2007, 08:17:12 PM
12. How was the Queen burster cloned through Ripley's blood? Isn't that too far of a stretch to have mixed the Alien blood, with hers?
Probably, though frankly, as much as I like A:R, the movie really only came about after the mess FOX made of Alien 3, and insisted on bringing Ripley back. They hired writer Joss Wheddon (Buffy the Vampire Slayer) who suggested the idea of cloning Ripley. The studio bought it and Alien Resurrection was made, the idea being samples of blood recovered by the United Systems Military from Fury 161, could be used to reconstruct Ripley with the Alien Queen still inside. How they actually achieve this or even knew about the Alien is never explained and, though I like the idea of the new Ripley who's DNA became mixed with that of the Alien, the deliberate dark humour of A:R was something I found just too distant from the previous films.
Thank you Sil, xeno, sm and Roary, for taking the time in answering the questions. Interesting responses/opinions.
Sil,
IMO, I think the "regurgitation" method fits as more of a "Alien" characteristic, than the egg-morphing one. The idea of a egg growing around a human and a face-hugger growing inside is odd/creepy, but I don't think it works as an Alien cycle. For the Alien species, to me, it doesn't fit.
It's an interesting concept, for sure, but I think it slows things down, and that's not good for the Alien life-span. The Aliens need to reproduce quickly and I think the egg-morphing process is too slow.
Yes, the regurgitation method has been done before in other sci-fi movies and egg-morphing is more original, but it's a slower process. Ironcially, just like the reason the scene was cut in the first place...it's slow.
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Nov 23, 2007, 04:41:49 AM
The Aliens need to reproduce quickly and I think the egg-morphing process is too slow.
Why? :)
One of the arguments for introducing this was that an advance army would be required. It wouldn't, of course, because thsi creature has a luxury surplus of time and space, if anything, but even so, we now learn there are "many" facehuggers getting on with doing what they do best, making this new thing even more superfluous than it already was.
I agree that it fits with the kind of methods the creatures use, but the previous films rendered it null and void.
Xeno,
Egg-morphing takes longer than regurgitation. Right? The Aliens grow quickly and they need to reproduce quickly. Heck, a face-hugger implanting an embryo and a chestburster born, seems to be quicker, than someone being turned into an egg.
How many hours are we talking about, after Brett and Dallas are cocooned/turning into eggs and Ripley finding them? Was Kane's impregnating and bursting, quicker?
Don't you think the regurgitation method is faster and also, when Brett and Dallas turn into eggs, they still need hosts for the facehuggers...so would there be other living hosts around, other than Ripley?
I don't think the egg-morphing process fits with their methods...I said regurgitation does.
Remember that the Aliens grow fast and have to reproduce fast, to keep the species going. I don't know why the Alien in ALIEN would turn people into eggs, when there wouldn't be anyone left to use as a host, other than Ripley.
If this is just something the Alien does as a natural function, without thinking of what could happen later, then fine. But given the situatoin that it was in, I don't know why it did it.
It killed Parker and Lambert...so they couldn't be hosts. Ripley is the only one, so why should the Alien kill her? Was the Alien going to capture her and egg-morph her too, or was she going to be a host for a facehugger?
i can imagine short conversation of fox executives thinking about sequel after avp1
guy #1 - damn, we've earnad a lot of money and that's cool, but i don't know, why so many people says that this movie is total failure. we should change something in the next one to make it closer to both series, maybe then we earn even more.
guy #2 - yeah, but what?
guy #1 - maybe good script with memorable characters?
guy #2 - nah...
guy #1 - maybe creatures should resemble the original ones more?
guy #2 - nah...
guy #1 - maybe some cool, futuristic setting?
guy #2 - nah...
guy #1 - i know, i know! blood!
guy #2 - omg, you're right! that's what we're missing here, not great plot, scenery and monsters. blood, the most important factor of alien and predator movies! lets leave directors free hands at rating, that is so cool.
meh
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Nov 23, 2007, 05:19:32 AM
Egg-morphing takes longer than regurgitation. Right?
We have no way to know. :)
QuoteThe Aliens grow quickly and they need to reproduce quickly. Heck, a face-hugger implanting an embryo and a chestburster born, seems to be quicker, than someone being turned into an egg.
How many hours are we talking about, after Brett and Dallas are cocooned/turning into eggs and Ripley finding them? Was Kane's impregnating and bursting, quicker?
Both took only a small number of hours.
QuoteDon't you think the regurgitation method is faster and also, when Brett and Dallas turn into eggs, they still need hosts for the facehuggers...so would there be other living hosts around, other than Ripley?
What would it matter? An egg could stay in hibernation until more prey comes along, just like the creatures can.
QuoteI don't think the egg-morphing process fits with their methods...I said regurgitation does.
Both fit with their methods. Regurgitation, however, contradicts what came before it.
It
could have worked, if '
Alien 3' and its own sequel had not come along.
QuoteRemember that the Aliens grow fast and have to reproduce fast, to keep the species going. I don't know why the Alien in ALIEN would turn people into eggs, when there wouldn't be anyone left to use as a host, other than Ripley.
What's wrong with Ripley? And what's wrong with the goal of egg transformation being to
produce a Queen facehugger?
QuoteIf this is just something the Alien does as a natural function, without thinking of what could happen later, then fine. But given the situation that it was in, I don't know why it did it.
To reproduce. :)
It wasn't working to some sort of tightly-defined schedule. There was prey and it took them at its leisure. There was no need to try spawning at hyperspeed. Making people into eggs only
feels like it takes ages, because the conclusion is at the end of the film, but that's damn fast, considering what is involved.
QuoteIt killed Parker and Lambert...so they couldn't be hosts. Ripley is the only one, so why should the Alien kill her? Was the Alien going to capture her and egg-morph her too, or was she going to be a host for a facehugger?
Very probably the latter. In the shuttle, however, it had a blank slate. Perhaps it was going to kill, perhaps it was going to egg. Who can really say?
The egg morphing is a deleted scene. I don't see whats so hard about this.
The directors see DCs as canon.
And fast reproductive cycle?
Only comparatively speaking. Kane still took over 24 hours to pop open.
Quote from: Xenonewborn on Nov 23, 2007, 12:29:27 AM
Quote from: SiL on Nov 23, 2007, 12:09:33 AM
Egg morphing is still scarier.
I don't know why but the idea of being morphed into an egg sounds way less painful than being chestbursted.
I suppose it's a question of what you mean by "egg morphing". I suppose I'm still not quite sure what was going on in the silk like cocoons in O'Bannon's script, but there are two other points of view:
1. Ridley Scott's idea involved basically being slowly absorbed by the nest material and being eaten by the alien young in the form of the egg structure with it's facehugger occupant.
2. James Cameron's idea where somehow the human body undegoes DNA changes which transforms the body into a spore, which he thought was ridiculous in the end and well I suppose he never actually found out about Ridley Scott's idea about the scene
Quote from: Plokoon111 on Nov 23, 2007, 12:06:51 AM
Its not vomit, its more like rape through the mouth.
well, I hope so, but talking about regurgitation makes it sound like vomit
Quote from: wmmvrrvrrmm on Nov 23, 2007, 02:01:05 PM
Quote from: Plokoon111 on Nov 23, 2007, 12:06:51 AM
Its not vomit, its more like rape through the mouth.
well, I hope so, but talking about regurgitation makes it sound like vomit
yeah, you can rape through the mouth by genitalia, not your tongue and liquids from your stomach. if they would put penis-like thing or whatever else between chets legs and let her impregnate victims with this way, that would be rape through mouth. throwing liquids from mouth to mouth isn't, even if the secondary jaw have fallistic shape.
well,the design of the aliens is similair to the one in ALIENS,that might mean something.
Quote1. Ridley Scott's idea involved basically being slowly absorbed by the nest material and being eaten by the alien young in the form of the egg structure with it's facehugger occupant.
Yeah I liked that explanation better. I'd imagine being slowly eaten alive on a molecular level would be amazingly painful.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 23, 2007, 08:18:06 AM
Only comparatively speaking. Kane still took over 24 hours to pop open.
(scratches head) ermmmm I don't think so!! No offence SiL, I'm actually a great admirer of yours on these boards because of what you write, but sometimes some of you guys leave me scratching my head.
This is what I worked out anyway, if Alien takes place in about 48 hours from start to finish, around half of which is spent getting to and from LV 426. The ship lands approximately 2000 meters away from the Derelict, a walking distance (given weather conditions) of no more than 5 hours. Although it's unclear how long, I believe Dallas, Kane and Lambert probably set off for the Derelict approximatly 3 hours after the ship set down, so by the time they get back, taking into account time spent inside the Derelict of no more than a couple of hours, the Hugger has been attached to Kane approximately 6 hours (splitting the difference) making the total away time about 12.
When the Nostromo originally touches down the landing causes some internal damage, about an hour later Parker informs the crew this will take at least 25 hours to repair, even though Brett actually informs him only 17. For the sake of arguement we assume Brett is right because Parker asks him, it's obvious Parker's "at least 25 hours" comment was taking the piss. Shortly before take-off, no less than 9 hours after it attached itself to him, the Hugger comes off Kane itself and appears to die. Ripley and Dallas discuss Ashe's seemingy unchallenged decision to keep the Hugger before she imforms him they're ready for take-off.
18 hours after it set down the Nostromo finally takes off, reconnects with the refinary and sets off back for Earth. According to the script, we rejoin the crew a few hours later, but again I'm guessing around 4 hours just to add a number. Which brings us forward 22 hours after it originally landed, the Embryo now safe inside Kane, its now been at least 13 hours since he was attacked. Shortly after, clearly in minutes, the crew are informed of a change in Kane's condition and we see he appears to have recovered. What can only reasonably be an hour later, the crew meet for dinner in the Mess Hall before returning to hypersleep, shortly after which the Chestburster appears....14 hours thereafter!
So I have to ask, where did you get the idea it takes the Chestburster "over" 24 hours to pop out from Kane...by all means correct me if Im wrong, but by my calculations that's simply impossible? Maybe I misunderstood you and apologies if I did. I assume you're not referring to Ripley's comment in ALIENS...
"just one of those things managed to wipe out my entire crew in less than 24 hours" ...which is clearly based on from when Kane is first brought back on board the Nostromo. But even if it isn't and Ripley makes an estimate based on everything as I've done, perhaps to demonstrate to Company officials the length of time the Embryo gestates inside a host, even so this still doesn't add up. Same goes for the repairs on the Nostromo if Parker got his way, another 8 hours still doesn't make 24.
Good point,very good point.
Lol, you could have just used Ripley's quote RoaryUK! :P
Looks like your proved wrong SiL... ::)
Quote from: RoaryUK on Nov 23, 2007, 06:39:30 PM
(scratches head) ermmmm I don't think so!! No offence SiL, I'm actually a great admirer of yours on these boards because of what you write, but sometimes some of you guys leave me scratching my head.
Ugh...this is funny and I'll tell you why...both you and SiL are using educated guesses...while we can sit here and estimate the
minimum time that it all took place in, we can not factor in the
maximum amount of time it could have taken...the possibilities are endless...
QuoteThis is what I worked out anyway, if Alien takes place in about 48 hours from start to finish, around half of which is spent getting to and from LV 426. The ship lands approximately 2000 meters away from the Derelict, a walking distance (given weather conditions) of no more than 5 hours. Although it's unclear how long, I believe Dallas, Kane and Lambert probably set off for the Derelict approximatly 3 hours after the ship set down, so by the time they get back, taking into account time spent inside the Derelict of no more than a couple of hours, the Hugger has been attached to Kane approximately 6 hours (splitting the difference) making the total away time about 12.
Everything in bold is a guess, they could have set off for the Derelict 6 hours later, and could have been there for 5 hours...no way to know for sure...you're also not factoring in that if the walking distance to the Derelict is indeed 5 hours, coming back would have taken longer, much longer...don't forget, they had to carry a fully grown, fully equipped, and a fully comatose Kane...
QuoteWhen the Nostromo originally touches down the landing causes some internal damage, about an hour later Parker informs the crew this will take at least 25 hours to repair, even though Brett actually informs him only 17. For the sake of arguement we assume Brett is right because Parker asks him, it's obvious Parker's "at least 25 hours" comment was taking the piss. Shortly before take-off, no less than 9 hours after it attached itself to him, the Hugger comes off Kane itself and appears to die. Ripley and Dallas discuss Ashe's seemingy unchallenged decision to keep the Hugger before she imforms him they're ready for take-off.
Maybe not less than 9 hours but could just as equally be 11 or 18 hours...
Quote18 hours after it set down the Nostromo finally takes off, reconnects with the refinary and sets off back for Earth. According to the script, we rejoin the crew a few hours later, but again I'm guessing around 4 hours just to add a number. Which brings us forward 22 hours after it originally landed, the Embryo now safe inside Kane, its now been at least 13 hours since he was attacked. Shortly after, clearly in minutes, the crew are informed of a change in Kane's condition and we see he appears to have recovered. What can only reasonably be an hour later, the crew meet for dinner in the Mess Hall before returning to hypersleep, shortly after which the Chestburster appears....14 hours thereafter!
This entire paragraph is a guess based on guesses in the second and third paragraphes...
QuoteSo I have to ask, where did you get the idea it takes the Chestburster "over" 24 hours to pop out from Kane...by all means correct me if Im wrong, but by my calculations that's simply impossible?
No one is saying you're wrong because you may be right...but there is nothing in the movie to prove that your time-line is any more correct than someone else's... :)
Quote from: War Wager on Nov 23, 2007, 07:32:58 PM
Looks like your proved wrong SiL... ::)
What's with the hard-on to prove SiL wrong!? :-X
Quote from: War Wager on Nov 23, 2007, 07:32:58 PM
Lol, you could have just used Ripley's quote RoaryUK! :P
Oppps! Thanks for pointing that (Ripley's comment) out to me man, I made a mistake there.... I know SiL ain't that daft for sure!
Quote from: Gates on Nov 23, 2007, 08:02:37 PM
Quote from: RoaryUK on Nov 23, 2007, 06:39:30 PM
(scratches head) ermmmm I don't think so!! No offence SiL, I'm actually a great admirer of yours on these boards because of what you write, but sometimes some of you guys leave me scratching my head.
Ugh...this is funny and I'll tell you why...both you and SiL are using educated guesses...while we can sit here and estimate the minimum time that it all took place in, we can not factor in the maximum amount of time it could have taken...the possibilities are endless...
QuoteThis is what I worked out anyway, if Alien takes place in about 48 hours from start to finish, around half of which is spent getting to and from LV 426. The ship lands approximately 2000 meters away from the Derelict, a walking distance (given weather conditions) of no more than 5 hours. Although it's unclear how long, I believe Dallas, Kane and Lambert probably set off for the Derelict approximatly 3 hours after the ship set down, so by the time they get back, taking into account time spent inside the Derelict of no more than a couple of hours, the Hugger has been attached to Kane approximately 6 hours (splitting the difference) making the total away time about 12.
Everything in bold is a guess, they could have set off for the Derelict 6 hours later, and could have been there for 5 hours...no way to know for sure...you're also not factoring in that if the walking distance to the Derelict is indeed 5 hours, coming back would have taken longer, much longer...don't forget, they had to carry a fully grown, fully equipped, and a fully comatose Kane...
QuoteWhen the Nostromo originally touches down the landing causes some internal damage, about an hour later Parker informs the crew this will take at least 25 hours to repair, even though Brett actually informs him only 17. For the sake of arguement we assume Brett is right because Parker asks him, it's obvious Parker's "at least 25 hours" comment was taking the piss. Shortly before take-off, no less than 9 hours after it attached itself to him, the Hugger comes off Kane itself and appears to die. Ripley and Dallas discuss Ashe's seemingy unchallenged decision to keep the Hugger before she imforms him they're ready for take-off.
Maybe not less than 9 hours but could just as equally be 11 or 18 hours...
Quote18 hours after it set down the Nostromo finally takes off, reconnects with the refinary and sets off back for Earth. According to the script, we rejoin the crew a few hours later, but again I'm guessing around 4 hours just to add a number. Which brings us forward 22 hours after it originally landed, the Embryo now safe inside Kane, its now been at least 13 hours since he was attacked. Shortly after, clearly in minutes, the crew are informed of a change in Kane's condition and we see he appears to have recovered. What can only reasonably be an hour later, the crew meet for dinner in the Mess Hall before returning to hypersleep, shortly after which the Chestburster appears....14 hours thereafter!
This entire paragraph is a guess based on guesses in the second and third paragraphes...
QuoteSo I have to ask, where did you get the idea it takes the Chestburster "over" 24 hours to pop out from Kane...by all means correct me if Im wrong, but by my calculations that's simply impossible?
No one is saying you're wrong because you may be right...but there is nothing in the movie to prove that your time-line is any more correct than someone else's... :)
I rather think of it an educated guess, mostly based on what is known either from the script or what's said in the film. Sure it's still a guess, but would you bet against me being some 10 hours out either way? Somehow I think not, because you know even so my point (about "over 24" hours) still holds up.
Brett says repairs will be at least 18 hours; Parker jacks up the estimate to 25.
The planet has a two hour rotation and the sun rises twenty minutes after they land; it's nighttime when they get back to the ship. The derelict is only two kilometers away, and sure bulky suits and rough terrain would make it take a while, but not that long. So it either took them a day to get in and out, or it took them just over an hour to get into the derelict, look around, and for Kane to get hugged.
Add delays in repairs for them to get Kane to the infirmary, for everyone to get out of their suits, and for the whole acid blood bit to take place. Maybe a half hour delay.
They end up taking off without full repairs, but knowing the slack nature of Parker it could easily have been closer to his 25 hour guesstimate than Brett's 18 hours - Deleted scenes show them lounging around drinking beer, with Brett getting the repairs wrong. Add a few hours for Kane to wake up and them to start eating.
Okay, maybe not over 24 hours, but a solid landing near 20. And even then, 15 hours is hardly as fast as people would like to make out and still goes against the whole 'Ah but facerape is faster thus fits better!' bullshit.
I guess when it comes down to it, does is really matter? :P
I just had another good look at ALIEN, sure sounds like Brett says 17 hours to me. On the other stuff I stand corrected on the ship repairs, I did actually say "no more than 5 hours" to the Derelict, and who knows how long it took to get back. As for the deleted scenes though they don't come into the equation, I'm sure you're rational enough to accept that with deleted scenes, particularly those in various Special Editions of these movies, comes the contradictory. It may make sense, you can argue some things shouldn't be removed, but if they are then these are simply canon wether imformative, relative or otherwise. Speaking of which SiL, you ever spent a couple of hours REALLY looking through the Anchorpoint Essays. I'm not gonna say too much here, but would love to know your thoughts on it...I sure have my own? lol
I love 'em. Wouldn't use them in an argument, but props to the author.
Quote from: War Wager on Nov 23, 2007, 11:33:28 PM
I guess when it comes down to it, does is really matter? :P
If a debate happens to come up about continuity and things which rely on it, yeah. :)
i found something that i havnt seen before in the new pic of the Hot toy wolf predator;
i dont if its the handgrip for the whip or something else??
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi190.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz2%2Fkarhan_x%2Fkhjkhjk.jpg&hash=da8fddf328b1d1aad8eda13c92116e019ec566be)
I think its the handgrip for the wip, cause the whip itself is sharp (alien tail) and Wolf sure wouldn't risk cutting of his fingers.
yeah i think so too, but he has those cool reptilian hands again 8) not those chunky avp ones >:(
i think he has knuckle dusters on hes left hand.
Never noticed Wolf's little buckle made from Alien teeth before.
Quote from: bobcunk on Nov 24, 2007, 08:24:26 PM
i think he has knuckle dusters on hes left hand.
Some kind of brass knuckles? As long as he doesn't punch any aliens in the head with them I see no problem with that, I guess.
Quote from: Robotpo on Nov 20, 2007, 10:42:23 PM
Just out of curiosity, how does this look like it's "going back to the roots"? T
maybe this is a reference to an interest in The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, since this did inspire Ridley Scott when he made Alien, and the Strauses have the cinematographer from The Texas Chainsaw Massacre working on their movie
Quote from: wmmvrrvrrmm on Nov 24, 2007, 08:42:59 PM
maybe this is a reference to an interest in The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, since this did inspire Ridley Scott when he made Alien, and the Strauses have the cinematographer from The Texas Chainsaw Massacre working on their movie
And if true, it would seem one of many of Scotts influences have come back to haunt this franchise in a bad way.
H.P Lovecraft, Jaws and The Omen were all listed as inspiration for "Alien" also. God, do I wish they'd return to those, instead of the "slasher" direction...
Jaws is far more respectable agreed.
Jaws got #1 scariest film of all time on BRAVO'S list. Alien was #2. :(
Personally, as a kid I was scared by Jaws because it could conceivably happen. Was never scared by the aliens, as they were just too damn cool. ;D
Quote from: Robotpo on Nov 24, 2007, 09:17:35 PM
H.P Lovecraft, Jaws and The Omen were all listed as inspiration for "Alien" also. God, do I wish they'd return to those, instead of the "slasher" direction...
I wouldn't know about The Omen being on the list, but Exorcist managed to get in there amongst the ones that interested Ridley Scott
Quote from: Robotpo on Nov 24, 2007, 09:17:35 PM
H.P Lovecraft, Jaws and The Omen were all listed as inspiration for "Alien" also. God, do I wish they'd return to those, instead of the "slasher" direction...
Yeah this is definately one thing that worries me about AvP-R ....christ, I hope it doesn't turn out to be a slasher!!
Quote from: RoaryUK on Nov 25, 2007, 12:49:15 AM
Quote from: Robotpo on Nov 24, 2007, 09:17:35 PM
H.P Lovecraft, Jaws and The Omen were all listed as inspiration for "Alien" also. God, do I wish they'd return to those, instead of the "slasher" direction...
Yeah this is definately one thing that worries me about AvP-R ....christ, I hope it doesn't turn out to be a slasher!!
I remember a Predator fan film that falls into a Slasher genre and that is "The Harvest". Pretty much creative and thrilling fan film though, a Bad Blood Predator killing and hunting innocent humans (the couples) in a forest after their cars break down.
Quote from: Clyde Wyman on Nov 25, 2007, 07:29:02 AM
Quote from: RoaryUK on Nov 25, 2007, 12:49:15 AM
Quote from: Robotpo on Nov 24, 2007, 09:17:35 PM
H.P Lovecraft, Jaws and The Omen were all listed as inspiration for "Alien" also. God, do I wish they'd return to those, instead of the "slasher" direction...
Yeah this is definately one thing that worries me about AvP-R ....christ, I hope it doesn't turn out to be a slasher!!
I remember a Predator fan film that falls into a Slasher genre and that is "The Harvest". Pretty much creative and thrilling fan film though, a Bad Blood Predator killing and hunting innocent humans (the couples) in a forest after their cars break down.
Where can I find this film?
I'll have a look for it on youtube right now....
Quote from: Wolfs Girl on Nov 25, 2007, 08:41:47 AM
Where can I find this film?
I'll have a look for it on youtube right now....
Found it? If not, here are the links for you
Part 1:
Part 2:
if someone could make one of these films and go back to Dan O'Bannon's Alien's roots, it might be interesting because there are a great deal of puzzling little ideas floating around some of his source material. It would be great if thist "going back to the roots" statement could be expanded on without just leaving it to float around as an enigmatic comment
I believe AvP 2 is going a little back to the roots of Predator.Cuz we see a woods,like the jungle from the first Predator.There's also a city.Like from Predator 2.And there are a lot of military,like the Marines in Aliens. ;)
QuoteThat still relies on her knowing Lambert was dead, instead of presuming.
Except you can look at what the room looks like, and make deductions, based on how high Lambert is and what angle her leg is at (at least) and you realize she's not lain on top of something, she's crammed
into something, in addition to being bereft at least one pants leg. She's doornail dead.
Quote from: Gates on Nov 21, 2007, 12:55:58 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 12:36:50 AM
We've seen what born queens do in A:R, but what does a lone alpha Alien do to reproduce? What's that next phase look like?
I thought it was pretty clear in the Alien DC...and secondly, the concept of an alpha alien is ridiculous... :-X
There Called Praetorians AVP 2 FTW
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 26, 2007, 09:55:21 AM
Except you can look at what the room looks like, and make deductions, based on how high Lambert is and what angle her leg is at (at least) and you realize she's not lain on top of something, she's crammed into something, in addition to being bereft at least one pants leg. She's doornail dead.
I wouldn't know what she might have been crammed into, if so, but I don't think it's impossible to be unconscious with shock/fear/whatever, be horrendously injured and still be crammed into something.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 02:03:14 AM
How about I charge you 13 bucks and then I'll answer any question you have. ;)
ok iam game.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:32:11 AM
Quote from: Gates on Nov 21, 2007, 01:31:12 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:17:35 AM
The extend DVD films are still cannon in my mind.
This guy is funny... ::)
If it's the director's vision for the film, then it's cannon.
The problem with this statement is that the Alien Director's Cut and the Alien 3 Special Edition AND the Alien Resurrection Special Edition are NOT the director's visions. Scott and Jeunet have both said that they prefer the theatrical cuts, Scott even said that "Director's Cut" label was just some marketing tool they came up with. And Fincher wasn't involved in compiling the Alien 3 SE, ultimately.
So really, by your logic, ONLY the Aliens SE should be cannon. No others.
One N, in the name of all that is holy...
^And an "ical" at the end, just to be really anal.
Quote from: Bishop2 on Mar 07, 2008, 05:04:42 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:32:11 AM
Quote from: Gates on Nov 21, 2007, 01:31:12 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:17:35 AM
The extend DVD films are still cannon in my mind.
This guy is funny... ::)
If it's the director's vision for the film, then it's cannon.
The problem with this statement is that the Alien Director's Cut and the Alien 3 Special Edition AND the Alien Resurrection Special Edition are NOT the director's visions. Scott and Jeunet have both said that they prefer the theatrical cuts, Scott even said that "Director's Cut" label was just some marketing tool they came up with. And Fincher wasn't involved in compiling the Alien 3 SE, ultimately.
So really, by your logic, ONLY the Aliens SE should be cannon. No others.
Canon is in the eye of the beholder. If something works better for you, it is right.
Quote from: Alienseseses on Mar 09, 2008, 12:28:35 AM
Quote from: Bishop2 on Mar 07, 2008, 05:04:42 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:32:11 AM
Quote from: Gates on Nov 21, 2007, 01:31:12 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 01:17:35 AM
The extend DVD films are still cannon in my mind.
This guy is funny... ::)
If it's the director's vision for the film, then it's cannon.
The problem with this statement is that the Alien Director's Cut and the Alien 3 Special Edition AND the Alien Resurrection Special Edition are NOT the director's visions. Scott and Jeunet have both said that they prefer the theatrical cuts, Scott even said that "Director's Cut" label was just some marketing tool they came up with. And Fincher wasn't involved in compiling the Alien 3 SE, ultimately.
So really, by your logic, ONLY the Aliens SE should be cannon. No others.
Canon is in the eye of the beholder. If something works better for you, it is right.
So now we selectively define what's canon and what isn't? If that were true, comic books in any one series would be independent of the previous month's issue.
Comics are not intended to be canon. But a person can decide whether Alien Res happened, whether the directors cuts are the final cuts, whether AVP ever happened.
Quote from: Alienseseses on Mar 09, 2008, 02:04:08 AM
Comics are not intended to be canon. But a person can decide whether Alien Res happened, whether the directors cuts are the final cuts, whether AVP ever happened.
Um, yes they are. Perhaps not in the realm of AvP I would agree, but in Marvel and DC they are. If we start picking and choosing what is canon and what isn't then we start messing up continuity which doesn't work for anyone.
I was talking about the Dark Horse stuff.
Fine. I was just using a general example, guess we misunderstood one another.
QuoteComics are not intended to be canon.
Dunno where you got that idea. DH comics WERE intended to be canon. If they weren't they wouldn't have gone to the trouble of redoing them post-Alien3 to bring them in line with the films. However there's still myriad inconsistencies between them and the four films.
Quote from: SM on Mar 09, 2008, 04:08:01 AM
QuoteComics are not intended to be canon.
Dunno where you got that idea. DH comics WERE intended to be canon. If they weren't they wouldn't have gone to the trouble of redoing them post-Alien3 to bring them in line with the films. However there's still myriad inconsistencies between them and the four films.
Want a really good example of that? The first AvP in DHP #36, alien eggs crash land in a ship on a foreign planet and the fahuggers mate with animals, yet the Aliens emerge as they would from a human, WITH ridged heads.