https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/variety.com/2021/tv/global/blade-runner-alien-tv-series-ridley-scott-1235117198/amp/
Bit more info here from Variety. The main take-way is that it's gong to be 8-10 hours worth of material, so most likely 8-10 episodes.
Blade Runner?! f**k yes
An Alien and a Blade Runner show at the same time? :o
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/65d508bb108d8a9251a85e3c5f5af087/tumblr_ou397j2kkB1teles0o2_250.gif)
I'm more interested in the Blade Runner show, to be honest. Aliens on earth still feels cheap to me.
Quote from: seattle24 on Nov 22, 2021, 09:57:55 AM
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/variety.com/2021/tv/global/blade-runner-alien-tv-series-ridley-scott-1235117198/amp/
RIP Halyna Hutchins
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Nov 22, 2021, 11:04:42 AMI'm more interested in the Blade Runner show, to be honest. Aliens on earth still feels cheap to me.
Yep. I wanna be excited, but having it on Earth is a big hype-killer for me.
In a way that's a good thing, because I almost certainly won't have whichever streaming service this is gonna be on anyway.
Disney+ Star.
Blade Runner TV series??? How did I miss this???
Blade Runner TV sounds interesting. Like others, I'm still not convinced about Alien on earth.
Well... at least they're planning for it going indefinitely instead of winging it?
Blade Runner?
Oooh yeaaah! Count me in for Blade Runner.
Also, the article seems to frame it that Ridley said that, like the Blade Runner series, the Alien series currently has a pilot written and a show bible in place for the season. I think this may just be the article conflating Ridley's words and assuming that Alien is only as far along as Blade Runner, however, because in an interview a few months back Hawley stated at the time that two episodes of Alien had already been written. What I'd imagine Ridley probably said here is that the pilot/show bible writing process for Blade Runner is the same internal approach they took with Alien, and the reporter took that to mean that both projects are equally far along in that process.
Unless the article is accurate there and they went back to square one to rewrite Alien from the beginning, I guess? I'm inclined to think the article is just mixed up on that point, though - there's no direct quote attributed to that section, after all.
Is Ridley Scott talking about the FX series or another series of his own? He talks in riddles..
Be interesting to see if it's solely 8-10 episode and a dead end or 8-10 episodes as a season & more to follow
Hope we get a good amount of quality and quantity of content out of the Alien and BladeRunner TV shows.
Hope we get a good amount of quality and quantity of content out of the Alien and BladeRunner TV shows.
In a further subversion, Scott will refocus Blade Runner to indulge his interest in aliens instead of AI.
:laugh:
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 22, 2021, 07:44:49 PM
In a further subversion, Scott will refocus Blade Runner to indulge his interest in aliens instead of AI.
Raised by Wolves (Season One, 2020)
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Nov 22, 2021, 07:59:48 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 22, 2021, 07:44:49 PM
In a further subversion, Scott will refocus Blade Runner to indulge his interest in aliens instead of AI.
Raised by Wolves (Season One, 2020)
Was heading here to post this
Quote from: AVPGalaxyFor both Blade Runner and Alien, an outline has been written of events that will happen throughout the 8-10 hours of them. That suggests we'll be getting 8-10 episodes in the Alien FX series.
Scott Free's
The Terror season 1 has 10 episodes. :laugh:
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Nov 22, 2021, 07:59:48 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 22, 2021, 07:44:49 PM
In a further subversion, Scott will refocus Blade Runner to indulge his interest in aliens instead of AI.
Raised by Wolves (Season One, 2020)
Bingo
Oh NO, Scott needs to be pushed as far away as possible from this or it will be another failure for Alien. Keep your nouse out Ridley.
Quote from: dave1978 on Nov 23, 2021, 10:24:35 AM
Oh NO, Scott needs to be pushed as far away as possible from this or it will be another failure for Alien. Keep your nouse out Ridley.
Yawn. He's producing, deal with it. It's Noah Hawley's thing anyway, I doubt Scott will have that much creative input.
Scott's a great producer anyway, it'll only help.
Please be good, Please be good, Please be good, Please be good, Please be good, Please be good, Please be good, Please be good, Please be good, Please be good, Please be good, Please be good.
Scott's is involved..... it wont be. Remeber, in Scotts mind the Alien is dead, nothing more can be done. When in reality its his imagination and ability that has wained over the years.
I wouldn't be too worried. As we understand it, it's Noah's baby.
So 8 to 10 episodes then ? It's a good format for this IMO.
I must admit I'm intrigued by the possibilities of a long-form story in this universe, beyond the 'we gotta get outta here' of the films. But I still maintain that the Earth setting robs the show of a great deal of what the Alien series is. Alien was initially greenlit because Star Wars was a success. It was the spaceship angle, and not so much the people-getting-killed angle, that got the film made. I turn to Alien because I want to spend a couple of hours in cold, dark space, or at least on a distant world.
Love to be proven wrong, though.
You can always watch the forthcoming Blade Runner series for outer space settings. :P
Aesthetically speaking, I wonder how good will be the ballance between the classic retrofuturism form the original movies vs. the 'everything is an iPod in the future' design philosophy from the prequels and current futurology in cinema, with the exception of the new Star Wars of course.
(https://i.ibb.co/JQsy119/Pics-Art-11-25-01-26-06.jpg)
Believe it or not but I would love to see it. Blade Runner 2019: Vol. 2: Off World comic book takes place on an Off-world colony and it's cool.
Quote from: dave1978 on Nov 25, 2021, 09:10:09 AM
Scott's is involved..... it wont be. Remeber, in Scotts mind the Alien is dead, nothing more can be done. When in reality its his imagination and ability that has wained over the years.
Which is all the more amusing because even with his reluctance to bring the capital-A Alien into
Covenant, he still put forward one of the most interesting takes on the creature to date in that film.
I would strongly, strongly disagree.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Nov 25, 2021, 10:30:39 PM
Quote from: dave1978 on Nov 25, 2021, 09:10:09 AM
Scott's is involved..... it wont be. Remeber, in Scotts mind the Alien is dead, nothing more can be done. When in reality its his imagination and ability that has wained over the years.
Which is all the more amusing because even with his reluctance to bring the capital-A Alien into Covenant, he still put forward one of the most interesting takes on the creature to date in that film.
Wait... What ?
Yeah, I genuinely find the interpretation of the Alien in Covenant, and the nature of its connection to David, to be pretty damn fascinating, and the film itself to be the best the franchise has been since Alien 3.
If that renders my opinion null, then so be it I guess. I dig the film, I'd love to see it followed up on directly, but I'd also be very cool seeing a brand new take on the material as well because, over the years, reinterpreting the core concepts has been one of the defining traits of each subsequent film.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Nov 26, 2021, 12:30:52 PM
Yeah, I genuinely find the interpretation of the Alien in Covenant, and the nature of its connection to David, to be pretty damn fascinating, and the film itself to be the best the franchise has been since Alien 3.
If that renders my opinion null, then so be it I guess. I dig the film, I'd love to see it followed up on directly, but I'd also be very cool seeing a brand new take on the material as well because, over the years, reinterpreting the core concepts has been one of the defining traits of each subsequent film.
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ScarceUnluckyHoopoe-size_restricted.gif)
f**k yeah, screw the haters
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Nov 26, 2021, 12:30:52 PM
Yeah, I genuinely find the interpretation of the Alien in Covenant, and the nature of its connection to David, to be pretty damn fascinating,
I found the Alien itself, as an entity in the story, to be pretty bland. With the exception of one or two shots it was basically every screeching bouncy Alien since AvP.
Which was all the more highlighted by having the Neomorphs, which aside from the acid blood and specific life cycle were basically the same thing. You could've had a Neomorph in that last act instead and changed absolutely nothing.
Too bad those damn millennials and there phones won't watch it!
Quote from: SiL on Nov 26, 2021, 09:41:40 PM
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Nov 26, 2021, 12:30:52 PM
Yeah, I genuinely find the interpretation of the Alien in Covenant, and the nature of its connection to David, to be pretty damn fascinating,
I found the Alien itself, as an entity in the story, to be pretty bland. With the exception of one or two shots it was basically every screeching bouncy Alien since AvP.
Which was all the more highlighted by having the Neomorphs, which aside from the acid blood and specific life cycle were basically the same thing. You could've had a Neomorph in that last act instead and changed absolutely nothing.
Regardless of the scope of gothic / philosophical horror, the Alien was a waste and poorly handled in
Covenant. There's no memorable Alien moment as in the first three movies.
(https://s10.gifyu.com/images/gif-8.gif)
(https://i.ibb.co/7RKfkGX/6585eeebd13cc1e54f4f95f97557e2ed.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/HDMkNtN/ripley.jpg)
I suppose that crane action scene should be that, but for some reason I tend to remind Neomorphs more than anything the Alien did in that movie.
I think they forgot to show us why the Alien is superior to the Neomorph. The life cycles are somewhat different, but even so the spores appear to be superior. Also, maybe that unused fighting scene between both species showing the Alien as the winner would have helped a bit.
I'd make an argument in favor of this shot (on a visual level alone, and within the narrative context of the film emphasizing the connection between David and his work-in-progress creation), which has at least personally stuck with me in a pretty poignant way:
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/e7b1abf5025baa1b9c574b4163cd0c98/tumblr_oukleb8wE91t4wjzko3_r1_540.gifv)
I do dislike the way the third act of the film just becomes a mini remake of
Alien for a 20 minute stretch once they get on board the Covenant (easily the least effective and least defined part of the movie), and would have been more than happy to shelve the capital-A Alien and save it for a third installment in the prequel narrative, but I do like the way it was visualized on screen and what the nature of its genesis does both for David's character within
Covenant's story as well as the thematic embellishment it has within the wider tapestry of what the Alien is and what it does in previous films.
It is a good shot, but the rest is as generic as the Neomorphs - and the back buster was the real showpiece of the movie.
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Dec 02, 2021, 12:24:07 AM
I think they forgot to show us why the Alien is superior to the Neomorph. The life cycles are somewhat different, but even so the spores appear to be superior. Also, maybe that unused fighting scene between both species showing the Alien as the winner would have helped a bit.
I maybe just trying to justify bad writting but stuff like this makes me think that to David "superior" means something other than "has a better reproductive cycle"
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Dec 02, 2021, 01:14:23 AM
would have been more than happy to shelve the capital-A Alien and save it for a third installment in the prequel narrative
I mean, look at George Lucas - man got away with showing probably less than 5 minutes worth of Vader in the entire prequel trilogy !
Quote from: Buttz on Dec 01, 2021, 02:20:31 PM
Too bad those damn millennials and there phones won't watch it!
That got a chuckle from me. I did actually mean to go see Last Duel but just never got around to it. Barely saw any marketing here.
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Dec 02, 2021, 12:24:07 AM
There's no memorable Alien moment as in the first three movies.
It doesn't amount to much screentime, but I still love that moment where it stands up when coming into the terraforming bay. I still think that just looks creepy as f**k.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Dec 02, 2021, 01:14:23 AM
I do dislike the way the third act of the film just becomes a mini remake of Alien for a 20 minute stretch once they get on board the Covenant (easily the least effective and least defined part of the movie), and would have been more than happy to shelve the capital-A Alien and save it for a third installment in the prequel narrative
I really wish they'd have been left out of Covenant. It's the same issue I had with Engineers/01: Genesis where the Alien just doesn't get treated right once introduced. Whether that's done to screentime/page count, it was just better to have been left out. I'd have liked more time with the Neomorph, and seen something that makes them stand out a little more from the Alien. I do love the Neomorphs, but I have to agree with SiL - can't remember which thread he said it on - about them not being different from the Alien really.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 02, 2021, 09:09:59 AM
That got a chuckle from me. I did actually mean to go see Last Duel but just never got around to it. Barely saw any marketing here.
That is unacceptable.
Now, if you said you didn't go and see it because of the helmets, I would have nodded my head in sagely commiseration.
I agree entirely with Nightmare Asylum, it's the cheatburster imitating David for good or ill that's most memorable the "Alien Covenant" itself if you like and, the Neomorphs felt authentically connected to the Alien so I never considered them generic even if lots of stuff exists with the source of inspiration they come from executed with not as much success.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 02, 2021, 09:09:59 AM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Dec 02, 2021, 12:24:07 AM
There's no memorable Alien moment as in the first three movies.
It doesn't amount to much screentime, but I still love that moment where it stands up when coming into the terraforming bay. I still think that just looks creepy as f**k.
It must be the only time the practical suit can be seen in the entire movie.
(https://i.ibb.co/SsdRskq/Alien-Covenant-screencaps-kissthemgoodbye-28544429.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/pR1xYQX/Alien-Covenant-screencaps-kissthemgoodbye-28544929.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/JRwNTxJ/Alien-Covenant-screencaps-kissthemgoodbye-28545529.jpg)
Quote from: Kradan on Dec 02, 2021, 07:51:25 AM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Dec 02, 2021, 12:24:07 AM
I think they forgot to show us why the Alien is superior to the Neomorph. The life cycles are somewhat different, but even so the spores appear to be superior. Also, maybe that unused fighting scene between both species showing the Alien as the winner would have helped a bit.
I maybe just trying to justify bad writting but stuff like this makes me think that to David "superior" means something other than "has a better reproductive cycle"
It makes sence.
(https://s10.gifyu.com/images/5we8of.gif)
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 02, 2021, 09:09:59 AMI do love the Neomorphs, but I have to agree with SiL - can't remember which thread he said it on - about them not being different from the Alien really.
Here and others :laugh:
It's really noticeable in Covenant when the adult Alien appears and it's just a reskinned Neomorph. There's really nothing to distinguish their movement or behaviours. You've got the life cycle and the acid blood and that's about it.
The slower, more deliberate killer of the Big Chap portrayal could've been a really good counterpoint to the Neomorphs, but instead we got AvP Aliens with better CGI.
Totally agree. Covenant Alien is just another space velociraptor from the AVP movies. They should have returned to the elegant but flamboyant body language of sadistic psychopathic killer.
(https://s10.gifyu.com/images/tumblr_9182c72af9ad45e8f769ca7dff101385_e4afe7db_500.gif)
Feral behavior is fine with the Neomorph though. And it would have helped make a real distinction beyond the acidic blood and the reproductive cycle, which is not improvement of the black spore life cycle at all anyway.
More of the stuff like it entering the cargo bay, less hopping around.
i don't mind the space-raptor stuff because at least it's pretty damn well executed space-raptor stuff AND.. the creature in Covenant is just a fleshy sketch of the perfect organism after all (David's narcissism gets a wake up call at the end).
Anyway, the show will most likely feature the proper biomechanical creatures and i'm wary of how they're gonna execute them...
We haven't seen the proper "biomechanical strain" since.... Alien3?
Creepily hopefully, not necessarily overly frantic.
(https://www.oohlo.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Minotaur.gif)
Is that from Legion?
It is.
I can't find it, but I believe it used to be someone's signature on here but, a photoreal piece of artwork of H.R Giger's Alien lying on a tiled floor in black and white.
That's the vibe I hope this goes for, not quite as good, but definitely similar in tone to this here:
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7e/f0/06/7ef006e92116ac51f78c4607b48cbe85.jpg)
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 03, 2021, 09:08:40 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7e/f0/06/7ef006e92116ac51f78c4607b48cbe85.jpg)
That art piece is extremely beautiful and amazing :o
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Dec 03, 2021, 12:16:57 AM
Totally agree. Covenant Alien is just another space velociraptor from the AVP movies. They should have returned to the elegant but flamboyant body language of sadistic psychopathic killer.
(https://s10.gifyu.com/images/tumblr_9182c72af9ad45e8f769ca7dff101385_e4afe7db_500.gif)
The "Cameron Concept" was the origin of the space velociraptor - which every subsequent director has followed. Not that I resent
Aliens because I don't - it truly is a masterpiece. But I often wonder what
Alien 2 would have been like if they had pursued the original interpretation, as devised by O'Bannon and Giger and Scott.
Take your example imagery:
(https://s10.gifyu.com/images/tumblr_9182c72af9ad45e8f769ca7dff101385_e4afe7db_500.gif)
and add this crab-walking alien with tail as giant erection:
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CostlyEmbellishedFennecfox-size_restricted.gif)
and this
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-uyfSsQDVQ70%2FUeqOoELMQXI%2FAAAAAAAAIG8%2FXzpTfGlWGIU%2Fs1600%2Feggsilo%2Cpng.png&hash=eda6b4f198b257586e677f51f9749b0338780b9d)
which was Giger's design for the origin of the eggs: Biomechanoid machinery (symbolically reminiscent of pregnant bellies), that produced the eggs as though from a bizarre alien factory line. (One YouTube commentator says that the ribbing leading down to the floor is a conveyor belt for the eggs, although I can't see it myself). It really emphasises Giger's biomechanoid concept. Although I've always thought it a shame that the biomechanoidisms are missing from the chestburster and facehugger designs.
TC
Quote from: TC on Dec 17, 2021, 01:50:08 PM
Not that I resent Aliens because I don't - it truly is a masterpiece.
Why does everybody who is about to criticise Aliens feels the need to say that ? Just say: "I hate Aliens", nothing bad about that
Nah, I think that's a fair preface. I adore Aliens. I also think most of the worst crap that's come out of the franchise (particularly on the EU side of things) has been the stuff trying to emulate Aliens.
That's fair to say
Trying to emulate Aliens without learning why any of the movie actually works as well as it does. *
Anything that's emulated it visually within the franchise itself and been any good period?
Quote from: SiL on Dec 17, 2021, 09:32:19 PM
Trying to emulate Aliens without learning why any of the movie actually works as well as it does. *
You just described, more or less, what Ridley did with the Alien in
Covenant. :laugh:
No, he did what he wanted to do with the original but never could due to technical limitations.
Yeah but sometimes part of what makes it great is the result of those technical limitatioms, as in the case of Star Wars retrofuurism. I believed that the motivations behind the designs were more technical than creative. But sometimes the creators seem to forget why their creations are so great (although in Ridley's case it was a very cooperative work), and then in the future they focus on what they "wanted it to be and it couldn't be due to technical limitations". :-\
No disagreement there. Limitations are great for creative works
I take it that's a no then after all.
A no to what?
I don't know what you were trying to ask in your previous post.
Quote from: SiL on Dec 17, 2021, 09:32:19 PM
Trying to emulate Aliens without learning why any of the movie actually works as well as it does. *
SM knows why.
But since he's not here to speak up, this guy also follows the same
monomyth interpretation:
https://medium.com/@simonlundlarsen/after-the-events-in-alien-james-cameron-made-it-clear-that-ellen-ripley-refused-to-be-part-of-10f6bb0bd8e
So many
Aliens imitators have clogged up our screens without realising that you need the characters and arcs (IOW, in this interpretation, the
monomyth) for the story to earn its success as not just sci-fi space soldiering, but first and foremost, as basic human drama. These basics feature in good stories from Homer to Hemingway to Heinlein.
But the monomyth isn't the only way to successfully structure a story: case in point -
Alien '79. Rather than shoe-horn
Alien into the monomyth paradigm, I think of it simply as the "Ten Little Indians" structure. Far less character-based, but very powerful in the way it pulls you through the narrative.
I like to summarise it like this:
Aliens is what you study in film school;
Alien is what you study as a fan. Trying to learn why
Alien shouldn't work (and yet does) will get you nowhere as a filmmaker. Learning about why
Aliens DOES work, is like taking a masterclass in filmmaking.
TC
I'm not sure what you mean by saying Alien shouldn't work. Having been to film school, we absolutely studied it - it's not some avant garde art film, it's a pretty paint by numbers haunted house/monster on a spaceship thriller plot with a proper Hollywood treatment. It hits all the beats of the monomyth (which is a very broad framework) and features all sorts of tropes that were common even on release.
EDIT
In terms of monomyth storytelling, the biggest difference between the first two films is the characters. There's no mentor in Alien; Aliens gives Ripley Hicks (although Dallas could be argued to fit a similar role). The call is resisted by multiple characters, not just Ripley. Story wise, they both hit the major beats, but Cameron adds the archetypical characters as well.
I suppose I'm asking if anything's emulated Aliens properly within the franchise, not just borrowed the visual and audio things we associate with it, because I can't think of anything.
Quote from: SiL on Dec 18, 2021, 01:32:04 AM
No disagreement there. Limitations are great for creative works
I'm just saying that Ridley should have gone back to basics with the Alien in
Covenant (because there it is what it makes it memorable), instead of doing what he wanted to do and couldn't, back in the day.
Yes and I'm agreeing with you ???
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 18, 2021, 01:54:42 PM
I suppose I'm asking if anything's emulated Aliens properly within the franchise, not just borrowed the visual and audio things we associate with it, because I can't think of anything.
It's all been pretty superficial.
Quote from: SiL on Dec 18, 2021, 08:14:27 PM
Yes and I'm agreeing with you ???
Oh! nevermind then :laugh:
I agree, a lot of the stuff that "gets it" always tends to be more Alien than Aliens.
I don't. I just don't think it's nearly as spectacular as many seem to. And sometimes I find the praise somewhat nauseating. But if I take a break from Alien type stuff for a good while I tend to remember how much I really like it.
I was exaggerating
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 19, 2021, 06:44:36 PM
I don't. I just don't think it's nearly as spectacular as many seem to. And sometimes I find the praise somewhat nauseating
That's kinda exactly how I feel about The Dark Knight
Also Ripley's hair's awful.
GTFO
Spoiler
(https://c.tenor.com/HJNuiMiP2WMAAAAC/alien-aliens.gif)
(https://c.tenor.com/aA2xPejfUE0AAAAC/sigourney-weaver-aliens.gif)
He's a visionary, bigger than Ridley $cott
(https://i.ibb.co/ByLMhPt/5yg83a.jpg)
Isn't it Fincher's quote regarding his feelings towards Alien 3 ?
EDIT: it is. You hack
Quote from: SiL on Dec 18, 2021, 04:43:10 AM
I'm not sure what you mean by saying Alien shouldn't work. Having been to film school, we absolutely studied it - it's not some avant garde art film, it's a pretty paint by numbers haunted house/monster on a spaceship thriller plot with a proper Hollywood treatment. It hits all the beats of the monomyth (which is a very broad framework) and features all sorts of tropes that were common even on release.
Sure, but by empirical reasoning, there has to be something more to it than that otherwise all those other B-movie horrors would have been just as successful. (As long as they were as competently made.) Or is the difference down to H R Giger and Ridley Scott's "eye"? Or perhaps just luck?
In any case, I admit to being a bit disingenuous in drawing a line between fan and film-student. The two are not mutually exclusive. IOW, you can be both fan and film-student at the same time when studying
Alien. You can be both fan and film-student at the same time when studying
Aliens. The point I was trying to make, however, is that
Aliens is a more teachable screenplay than
Alien.
I recognise that this is the point of contention between us, but for now I can agree with you on this:
Alien is not some avant garde art film. But in terms of screenwriting, I do think it diverges sufficiently from the Hollywood model to give it problems in today's environment.
If you sent the O'Bannon/Hill/Giler script off to a development executive today if would come back (if it came back at all) with all sorts of notes and a "pass" grade ("pass" as in "let's pass on this"). I was listening to a podcast the other day in which someone said that if the
Jerry McGuire script was currently doing the rounds it would have been noted to death before it even hit the floor (there's that key scene in which Renee Zellweger leaves Tom Cruise but it's not preceded by a specific event that spells out what he did wrong. Today's script readers and their coverage get very, very picky about these things!).
And what of
Alien, what problems do I see in that? There are three main things, which I'll get on to later. First, some things about Joseph Campbell's monomyth:
Quote from: SiL on Dec 18, 2021, 04:43:10 AM
In terms of monomyth storytelling, the biggest difference between the first two films is the characters. There's no mentor in Alien; Aliens gives Ripley Hicks (although Dallas could be argued to fit a similar role). The call is resisted by multiple characters, not just Ripley. Story wise, they both hit the major beats, but Cameron adds the archetypical characters as well.
I believe there are several versions around, and I guess the simplest one could be considered a "broad" framework. If I were to subscribe to any of them as a practical document, it would be this one. The 17 step version is far too prescriptive, almost as bad as one of Blake Snyder's beat sheets. But in general I think you are better off rendering down the stages into the more fundamental tools that drive them.
I'll give you an example: "Refusal of the Call".
I think this is better understood as the "power of contrast." Basically, when your protagonist reaches a decision point, you get more drama out of the decision by having it flip him or her from the furthest opposite state. Say you have two characters you want to fall in love. What you do is begin their relationship by having them dislike each other. That way, come the moment when they finally do hook up, the greater contrast in the changeover gives you more dramatic intensity. (Soap opera writers know this trick and use it all the time.)
And that's what's going on in Refusal of the Call. By refusing first, it gives greater contrast to the moment when they eventually answer it (to "Cross the Threshold"). But the advantage of thinking of it as "power of contrast" is that it becomes a far more general purpose tool. You can use it at any time in your story, not just in the beginning. For example, why does Hugh Grant reject Julia Roberts when she turns up to tell him she's just a girl, standing in front of a boy, asking him to love her? Everyone in the audience is silently screaming at him to say yes! But he says no. Why? — the power of contrast. Because the following scene is when he realises his mistake and says yes.
So IMHO here are the three main problem areas in the
Alien screenplay, and I'm going to compare them with their
Aliens equivalents:
1. Long delay in defining who the main protagonist is.
ALIEN - The importance of telling the audience early on who the protagonist is, is that the audience enters the story scanning each of your characters, trying to find the one to emotionally latch on to. This is the key person they are supposed to identify with, align their sympathies with, empathise with. Without your guidance, the audience will find someone to fulfil this role on their own. Possibly the wrong person. The worst thing is if there are no acceptable candidates, therefore no-one for the audience to latch on to—that way leads to an emotionally distanced audience. You don't want that.
The protagonist seems to be Dallas, since he is the decision maker. He is the most proactive. Proactive characters use their wilfulness to shape the plot. A weak protagonist is one who gets pushed around by circumstance, who only reacts to events as they are inflicted upon him or her. This is not a good thing. As an audience, we want to identify with strong personalities. Ripley doesn't become the protagonist until Dallas gets killed. That's maybe 80 minutes into the story. Far too late.
ALIENS - Of course, Cameron gets a boost here by riding on the coat-tails of the first film. We already know walking into the theatre that this is going to be about Ellen Ripley.
2. Ripley is unsympathetic.
ALIEN - Ripley, we will learn, is the real protagonist of the story. But early on she comes across as cold-hearted. No-one likes her. She is the one with the longest stick up her ass. In the situation of Kane's emergency, she is the one that resorts to the rule book to block his rescue. Dallas, Lambert, and Ash do the humanitarian thing and try to rush Kane inside. You can argue that this is because Ripley is the only smart one in the crew, but in story terms we want our protagonist to make heroic acts of self-sacrifice. In this case, it's easy to believe that Ripley's actions are one of self-preservation.
ALIENS - First of all, we know from the end of the previous film that Ripley saved the cat. This makes her an OK gal. She also expresses pain at the loss of her crewmates, and concern for the jeopardy of the shake 'n' bake colonists. We also see that she suffers greatly at the plight of her daughter. Knowing all this, any audience that refuses to engage their sympathies with her is (what can I say?) simply dead inside.
3. Ill-defined wants and needs.
ALIEN - Ripley has no back story, nothing to give her an underpinning psychology. None of the characters do, but since Ripley is the main protagonist, this emptiness in her characterisation is most keenly felt.
There are two key features in a full characterisation that are often referred to as "wants" and "needs" (also known as "conscious" and "subconscious desires"). A "want" is the goal that the protagonist is actively in pursuit of (Kyle Reece wants to protect Sarah Conner). A "need" is a deeper, subconscious desire to correct a flaw or deficiency in the protagonist's life (Reece needs an emotional connection). Once that flaw is corrected, the protagonist completes their arc and becomes a better, more complete person.
What are Ripley's wants and needs? She wants to survive the alien. And her need is... what? In what way is she a better person at the end of the movie than she is at the beginning? No way.
ALIENS - Ripley's want: She wants to destroy the aliens. Ripley's need: She needs redemption for the abandonment of her daughter.
But as we all know,
Alien is a highly successful film, well known and loved down through the ages. So we know these problems (if they are real; they're just my opinions after all) didn't do much to harm it. Why not?
Ridley Scott thought he knew and went ahead and made
Prometheus based on that knowledge. All I have are some guesses. But I've written enough already so that's a post for another day.
TC
Jesus! TC, you posted in text what I do in 1 month :o
Edit - That was not a criticism, in fact it is great when the members demonstrate such knowledge. ;D
Quote from: Kradan on Dec 20, 2021, 06:50:36 AM
Isn't it Fincher's quote regarding his feelings towards Alien 3 ?
EDIT: it is. You hack
(https://i.ibb.co/VYKSmhR/7osz8mlmskxy.jpg)
Great post TC!
Quote from: TC on Dec 20, 2021, 02:18:24 PM
Sure, but by empirical reasoning, there has to be something more to it than that otherwise all those other B-movie horrors would have been just as successful.
Execution is everything. Two films with similar plots can have very different outcomes.
QuoteThe point I was trying to make, however, is that Aliens is a more teachable screenplay than Alien.
And my point is people are taught
Alien in schools.
QuoteIf you sent the O'Bannon/Hill/Giler script off to a development executive today if would come back (if it came back at all) with all sorts of notes and a "pass" grade ("pass" as in "let's pass on this").
This really doesn't mean anything. You can say this about many of the greatest films ever made, whose screenplays are the foundation of many screenwriting courses.
Quote1. Long delay in defining who the main protagonist is.
This isn't a problem.
Alien is an example of an
ensemble cast, something still very much used today, and is taught as such. The roles and responsibilities of the protagonist are split amongst the characters.
Quote2. Ripley is unsympathetic.
Ripley comes across unsympathetic to other characters, but the audience sympathises with - or at least understands - her. We get that she's by the books and trying to do the right thing, even if it's not always the emotionally appealing option. Protagonists don't need to be likeable; that's a common misconception.
Quote3. Ill-defined wants and needs.
...
What are Ripley's wants and needs? She wants to survive the alien. And her need is... what? In what way is she a better person at the end of the movie than she is at the beginning? No way.
Ripley
wants to be a good officer and follow the rules. Ripley
needs to survive. She's a better person at the end of the movie when she realises "f**k the company" and stops trying to protect WY assets or her job and focuses on survival at all costs.
Yeah that was a great post, but in my opinion, those three 'problem areas' are what elevate Alien above similar films in the genre.
The thing that would actually hinder Alien today is its speed. It takes a while to kind of get to the point - but that's mostly in how it's filmed and edited. The script actually moves along at a good place, has a well rounded cast of characters, and some great horror set pieces.
Some dialogue would probably be trimmed from the first act to get to the hugger and burster quicker, that's really about it. Otherwise Alien very much ticks all of the boxes of an appealing modern movie.
I wish Noah cast Willem Dafoe to play a Paul Church-like character.
(https://s10.gifyu.com/images/giphycc82c9964f536c08.gif)
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Dec 20, 2021, 10:48:44 PM
Yeah that was a great post, but in my opinion, those three 'problem areas' are what elevate Alien above similar films in the genre.
I think it's the Risk Vs Reward conundrum. You can play it safe and follow the rules, er,
principles, or you can do something just a little different and
if it pays off, it pays off big.
Or you could see it the way those
American Idol judges used to evaluate a performance: If you choose a simple song in a plain arrangement, you need to pull it off perfectly in order to score decent enough points.
TC
I'm really excited for this Alien tv series but I"m honestly worried about direction. I hope it steers away from the near-biblical storyline focusing on the weighty ideas of origin, purpose and perfection like Prometheus and Alien Covenant. They need to explore the original aspects of what made Alien 'A L I E N'. Alien is a masterpiece of terror and atmosphere. It's a quietly tense film that relies on the mystery and dread of the iconic Xenomorph alien, which wreaks havoc upon the personable crew of the Nostromo. From unbelievably horrific killings to indelible performances I want to see aspects in this tv show that made Alien great from the start. I want actors who we care about, a storyline that focuses on the more cryptic and horrific side of the Alien. Who wants to learn more about boring David/Walter and the Engineers anymore? That era I feel is over and new ground needs to be explored.
Quote from: T-850 on Aug 27, 2022, 01:15:31 AMWho wants to learn more about boring David/Walter and the Engineers anymore?
Me.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Aug 27, 2022, 01:27:15 AMQuote from: T-850 on Aug 27, 2022, 01:15:31 AMWho wants to learn more about boring David/Walter and the Engineers anymore?
Me.
The characters throughout Prometheus and Alien Covenant are less real humans than they are moving targets to be picked off in gory fashion, and it's fair to say that most fans do not generally look towards an "Alien" movie to learn more about their creation and purpose in life.
Me three.
Legion found itself perfectly capable of both dealing with themes of passing down trauma, Godhood, existence, and dealt in character drama, action and horror and paranoia.
I see no reason why Alien should not be able to do the same.
Can do the same, but it works best when it's not being pretentious as f**k.
O'Bannon and his bowtie are rolling in his grave knowing how much androids have overtaken his concept.
Agreed.
What matter's most that it's good though right?
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/legion
https://m.imdb.com/title/tt5114356/
Honestly, not really.
There are thousands of great movies that don't feature the Alien; when I want to watch stories about the Alien, where the Alien is the driving force, I do not watch The Godfather.
To each their own, I would absolutely rather something be good and use the license for their own particular spin, than be mediocre and be unquestionably only about the Alien.
James Cameron repurposing "Mother" into "Aliens" for example.
I think Prey works as another example of a story that already fully functions but the Predator got incorporated later.
Quote from: SiL on Aug 27, 2022, 10:25:44 AMHonestly, not really.
There are thousands of great movies that don't feature the Alien; when I want to watch stories about the Alien, where the Alien is the driving force, I do not watch The Godfather.
This tbh.
Quote from: SiL on Aug 27, 2022, 07:44:03 AMCan do the same, but it works best when it's not being pretentious as f**k.
O'Bannon and his bowtie are rolling in his grave knowing how much androids have overtaken his concept.
Gotta agree with you. And I'm a guy who
loves Prometheus, warts and all.
It's a bit strange to me, as I have always felt this was Alien's strength as a franchise in the first place, it adapts to the host author.
It was always a changing thing from the very beginning.
It was also always about the Alien. Cameron may have repurposed another script, but he didn't throw in a completely separate alien entity and sideline the main creature.
Alien Resurrection, Prometheus and Alien Covenant all did, but I do not think Noah Hawley will.
Quote from: SiL on Aug 27, 2022, 07:44:19 PMIt was also always about the Alien. Cameron may have repurposed another script, but he didn't throw in a completely separate alien entity and sideline the main creature.
He kinda did with Alien Queen
Fair point, he changed the fundamental nature of the beast, and the genre entirely.
Quote from: Kradan on Aug 27, 2022, 08:40:21 PMQuote from: SiL on Aug 27, 2022, 07:44:19 PMIt was also always about the Alien. Cameron may have repurposed another script, but he didn't throw in a completely separate alien entity and sideline the main creature.
He kinda did with Alien Queen
He made the Queen part of the Alien lifecycle, he did not make a separate alien species the focus.
The Newborn, likewise, is not a new species. It's a mutated Alien and stems from the story's focus on the relationship between Ripley and the Alien.
The prequels if anything prove my point.
The Newborn's a new creature entirely, we do not deal with real Aliens, or real Ripley in that film at all.
Proves your point that half the franchise has focused on other things?
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Aug 27, 2022, 05:24:36 PMIt's a bit strange to me, as I have always felt this was Alien's strength as a franchise in the first place, it adapts to the host author.
It was always a changing thing from the very beginning.
But at their core, they're all (barring Prometheus and
possibly Covenant) about big slimy f**kers ganking people, with anything else ultimately being window dressing.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 27, 2022, 08:54:08 PMQuote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Aug 27, 2022, 05:24:36 PMIt's a bit strange to me, as I have always felt this was Alien's strength as a franchise in the first place, it adapts to the host author.
It was always a changing thing from the very beginning.
But at their core, they're all (barring Prometheus and possibly Covenant) about big slimy f**kers ganking people, with anything else ultimately being window dressing.
Exactly this.
Prometheus dropped Alien from the title because of the lack of Aliens, and it was the right thing to do. Covenant probably should've followed suit.
The whole plot of AR is the military trying to get Aliens. Even if you want to do mental gymnastics to say they're not "real" Aliens, the Aliens are driving the bus.
Social commentary and existentialism elevate what are otherwise unpretentious stories about face raping space monsters eating people's brains, and the revisionist history that this was ever not the case is getting increasingly annoying.
They certainly involve that, and so will Noah Hawley's Alien, but they have all been about different things.
"The Alien stories are always trapped," Hawley told Vanity Fair. "Trapped in a prison, trapped in a spaceship. I thought it would be interesting to open it up a little bit so that the stakes of 'What happens if you can't contain it?' are more immediate."
All about different things in ways that are driven by interactions with the Alien.
Until Hawley actually starts talking about how the Aliens actually play into his Peter Pan allegory I have no interest.
"Even if the show was 60% of the best horror action on the planet, there's still 40% where we have to ask, 'What are we talking about it, beneath it all?' Thematically, it has to be interesting. It's humbling to get to play with the iconography of this world."
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Aug 27, 2022, 09:11:18 PM"Even if the show was 60% of the best horror action on the planet, there's still 40% where we have to ask, 'What are we talking about it, beneath it all?' Thematically, it has to be interesting. It's humbling to get to play with the iconography of this world."
He's going to have to get more done on it and show us some receipts before I trust him.
I hope for the best but the state of modern shows being increasingly self indulgent wank spread out over too many hours is making it hard.
Bingo
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Aug 27, 2022, 09:04:08 PMThey certainly involve that, and so will Noah Hawley's Alien, but they have all been about different things.
"The Alien stories are always trapped," Hawley told Vanity Fair. "Trapped in a prison, trapped in a spaceship. I thought it would be interesting to open it up a little bit so that the stakes of 'What happens if you can't contain it?' are more immediate."
In theory I like the concept. Wary of the execution.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 27, 2022, 09:16:49 PMQuote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Aug 27, 2022, 09:11:18 PM"Even if the show was 60% of the best horror action on the planet, there's still 40% where we have to ask, 'What are we talking about it, beneath it all?' Thematically, it has to be interesting. It's humbling to get to play with the iconography of this world."
He's going to have to get more done on it and show us some receipts before I trust him.
And if you get even one whiff of a dance number...?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 27, 2022, 11:40:28 PMQuote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 27, 2022, 09:16:49 PMQuote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Aug 27, 2022, 09:11:18 PM"Even if the show was 60% of the best horror action on the planet, there's still 40% where we have to ask, 'What are we talking about it, beneath it all?' Thematically, it has to be interesting. It's humbling to get to play with the iconography of this world."
He's going to have to get more done on it and show us some receipts before I trust him.
And if you get even one whiff of a dance number...?
(https://i.imgur.com/2DV2f7K.jpg)
(https://c.tenor.com/-Sr-akO9PkAAAAAM/vibing-stay-cool.gif)
Deacon
Now officialy named
Proto Xenomorph
In Alien RPG!
And they have
Proto Hive!
I want movie about Deacons Hive!
And Engineers!
Where's my At The Mountains of A.I. Sexual Madness mmmmm
Lol imagine thinking that the psychosexual can of worms John Logan introduced with Covenant re David and Walter is simply limited to those two. I envision an entire Giger hellscape at David8's disposal, and an evolution of his form as well into something so Other and bizarre, the possibilities are just brimming with biomechanical mercurial ooze and brine mmmm A.I. sex madness baby. 😎
Imagine thinking the Alien franchise is about androids.
(https://c.tenor.com/cmrR1GeCKpEAAAAC/legion-legion-after-dark.gif)
Imagine all the people...
Nice episodes of 8 to 10 hours ;D
Quote from: SiL on Aug 30, 2022, 07:53:21 PMImagine thinking the Alien franchise is about androids.
I've always wondered if this trend started because, even among those that disliked Prometheus, David seemed to be a popular element. Seems to be a common trend "People like this thing, lets focus on it until we burn it into the ground." Shockingly it only took Ridley one movie to ruin David.
Quote from: Necronomicon II on Aug 30, 2022, 01:50:10 PMLol imagine thinking that the psychosexual can of worms John Logan introduced with Covenant re David and Walter is simply limited to those two. I envision an entire Giger hellscape at David8's disposal, and an evolution of his form as well into something so Other and bizarre, the possibilities are just brimming with biomechanical mercurial ooze and brine mmmm A.I. sex madness baby. 😎
It stopped being "other" when the alien was linked to David, and the engineers were linked to us. There is no other. We're all one big happy family in a small little universe neighborhood where everyone knows everyone.
David's just another mass murdering serial killer with different insides. The only difference between him and Hannibal is the space ship. And Hannibal wouldn't get the quotes wrong.
Androids certainly have their place in the Alien mythos, but there is so much more to explore. We've had two movies now where the Android's story was at the core of things.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Sep 28, 2022, 01:07:06 AMAndroids certainly have their place in the Alien mythos, but there is so much more to explore. We've had two movies now where the Android's story was at the core of things.
But now we're just swimming in THEMES!
Quote from: Local Trouble linkBut now we're just swimming in THEMES!
Drowning in them, one might say.
Hawley definitely looks like an interesting fella. Deserves at least my curiosity.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Sep 28, 2022, 02:42:42 AMDrowning in them, one might say.
Indeed. As one continuous set of stories, Alien should've never gone past Aliens (at best, we should've had an Alien3 dealing with the space jockey dilemma in a proper manner to wrap things up). And yet here we are in 2022 and like it or not, Prometheus & Covenant are here to stay with the current direction of the franchise. So... buckle up if you want to continue.
The series didn't really hit its stride until we got the black goo. That's what it always needed, but we just didn't know it.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Oct 01, 2022, 12:44:29 AMThe series didn't really hit its stride until we got the black goo. That's what it always needed, but we just didn't know it.
(https://i.imgur.com/sUz8EzR.jpg)
Seriously, LT, I was down, and that was a pick me up. I had a good laugh. Bahahaha..!
I like Alien³ and Alien Isolation, The Cold Forge and Into Charybdis, more than I like Aliens myself.
Alex White uses the concepts from the prequels masterfully in their stories, they might not exist without the prequels as they are, Blue Marsalis likely will remain my single favourite character in this franchise.
I indeed also like Fargo and Legion more than Aliens if they are anything to go by I will enjoy Noah Hawley doing Alien.
So for a franchise lots of people are not happy with overall, I could not be more pleased with the way it turned out, could stuff be better? Sure could!
Alien Resurrection, Prometheus and Alien Covenant, could have each turned out truly great but... I will take interesting, absolutely I will take that over competent and bland anyday, see Predators for instance.
Competent but bland is Prey to a T but you seem to enjoy that.
I can point to the score alone to prove you incorrect on that one.
Or: https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=65998.0
Or: https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=65974.0
Quote from: SiL on Oct 01, 2022, 11:23:06 AMCompetent but bland is Prey to a T but you seem to enjoy that.
I didn't find it bland at all, weird.
Lucky you.
There is lot of lucky people I think.
Lots of people like bland movies. Just look at Marvel. There's nothing wrong with it.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 01, 2022, 09:01:02 PMLots of people like bland movies. Just look at Marvel. There's nothing wrong with it.
I heard Paul Reiser's voice just then.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 01, 2022, 09:01:02 PMLots of people like bland movies. Just look at Marvel. There's nothing wrong with it.
Do you not have better things to do than air your condescending unwanted opinions?
Quote from: SiL on Oct 01, 2022, 09:01:02 PMLots of people like bland movies. Just look at Marvel. There's nothing wrong with it.
Sure, but I don't think it's bland. But if you say so... ::)
Quote from: 426Buddy on Oct 01, 2022, 09:29:00 PMSure, but I don't think it's bland. But if you say so... ::)
People who are really into Marvel don't think they're bland either. It's all a matter of taste.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Oct 01, 2022, 09:16:58 PMQuote from: SiL on Oct 01, 2022, 09:01:02 PMLots of people like bland movies. Just look at Marvel. There's nothing wrong with it.
I heard Paul Reiser's voice just then.
Don't let my posts fool you, I'm really an ok guy.
Will you have lots of androids in your movie? You can't spell ALIEN without AI, after all.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Oct 01, 2022, 10:02:28 PMWill you have lots of androids in your movie? You can't spell ALIEN without AI, after all.
Not lots, no.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 01, 2022, 10:12:03 PMQuote from: Local Trouble on Oct 01, 2022, 10:02:28 PMWill you have lots of androids in your movie? You can't spell ALIEN without AI, after all.
Not lots, no.
I want to see live-action rhynth.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Oct 01, 2022, 11:10:15 AMI like Alien³ and Alien Isolation, The Cold Forge and Into Charybdis, more than I like Aliens myself.
Alex White uses the concepts from the prequels masterfully in their stories, they might not exist without the prequels as they are, Blue Marsalis likely will remain my single favourite character in this franchise.
I indeed also like Fargo and Legion more than Aliens if they are anything to go by I will enjoy Noah Hawley doing Alien.
So for a franchise lots of people are not happy with overall, I could not be more pleased with the way it turned out, could stuff be better? Sure could!
Alien Resurrection, Prometheus and Alien Covenant, could have each turned out truly great but... I will take interesting, absolutely I will take that over competent and bland anyday, see Predators for instance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z-QCDyL2q4
Exactly.
Also, the Alien is still Other if at base it's an amorphous shoggoth — origins unknown— that was simply shaped into a drooling bell-end. The logic is sound. The Earth war comic already shrunk the universe, yet it remains insanely ulikely that when travelling thousands of light-years into deep space one encounters human sex anatomy and parasites preadapted to any oxygen breathing mammal. Surely there are species out in other galaxies where earth-bound mammalian penises and vaginas are not evolutionarily conserved. 😂
Perverse, psychosexual A.I. thematically consistent with Giger's entire aesthetic, if done well? Infinitely more interesting than Planet of the Vampires Redux!
Just FYI I am Studio Yutani's/Muthur's partner, read Inferno's Fall if you haven't please! Shameless plug I know. 😅 Support more diversity in the fandom, less reductive male gaze. Peace out.
I find the ancient dead space of a Planet of the Vampires redux infinitely more interesting than "humans are the most important thing anywhere you look".
Reducing the vastness and possibility of the cosmos to humans and human looking aliens and humanoid robots with human desires is about as dull and myopic as it gets.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 02, 2022, 10:33:36 AMas dull and myopic as it gets.
That's what she said
Heyooooo
I did say that. But some seem incapable of contributing anything but.
But Earth War explicitly didn't have a Giger world and just had the Aliens existing as part of some natural ecosystem where they weren't even at the top of the food chain.
It doesn't have to be an adaptation of the comic.
This is actually where I find the games did the best job.
There stuff is there to be found on distant worlds. Abandoned, ancient. Structures, machines, hints of culture, but nothing truly concrete. Were they nefarious? Were they benevolent? AVP 2 handled it the way I would have if it had been me running the "Where do we take the franchise from here" after Resurrection.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/1YptZpv.jpg)
Quote from: Local Trouble on Oct 01, 2022, 12:44:29 AMThe series didn't really hit its stride until we got the black goo. That's what it always needed, but we just didn't know it.
(We've had a functional black goo since 1991)
You mean the jelly?
Yes, he does. Tbh, I don't quite get the comparision
@Corporal Hicks
Are we going to get a version of Xeno-Zip with the black goo? That could really turn this show into a raging success.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 03, 2022, 07:07:43 PMYou mean the jelly?
Jelly?
Is this the stuff that they turned into space-steroids that started killing people in the comics?
The royal jelly isn't anything like the black goo. From memory the only time it had mutagenic properties was Aliens: Colonial Marines and even then I thought that had more to do with general genetic malarkey (although it's been a while).
Also Tribes.
What we need is black goo that acts like a T-1000 and can take the solid form of an Alien. Cut out the middleman. The goo is all that matters.
Alien? Goo. Ripley? Goo. The Nostromo? Goo. Perez' chest hair? You'd be surprised, but goo.
Goo ? Googoo
No, the goo is gaga.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 03, 2022, 07:21:55 PMThe royal jelly isn't anything like the black goo. From memory the only time it had mutagenic properties was Aliens: Colonial Marines and even then I thought that had more to do with general genetic malarkey (although it's been a while).
I mean in terms of "does whatever we need to facilitate a story." But to be fair, the once is enough, with the Bug Men.
I thought the Royal Jelly was more consistent. It had a primary function within the Aliens, and then pharmaceutical companies dicked around with it for other possibilities.
Guess it's time to reread some comics.
It is more consistent over all compared to the black goo. Makes xenozip and Turns people to alien/human hybrids kinda.
They do have some similarities.
Tribes has it being very similar to the Pathogen in most respects.