AvPGalaxy Forums

We have just uploaded the 129th episode of the Alien vs. Predator Galaxy Podcast (right-click and save as to download)! Today mark’s the 35th anniversary of Aliens’ general release in the United States and Canada! And to mark the occasion Corporal Hicks, RidgeTop, Xenomorphine and VoodooMagic are back to celebrate 35 years of Aliens!

We discuss the circumstances around our first viewings of the film (and there’s some good ones!), Theatrical vs. Special Edition, the legacy of James Cameron’s futuristic designs, and plenty more!

What did you think of our latest episode? Be sure to let us know down below! You can also listen to any of our previous episodes in the Podcast section under the News tab on the main menu. The Alien vs. Predator Galaxy Podcast is also available via iTunes, PodBean, GooglePlay Stitcher, and Spotify! Please be sure to leave a rating and review on whichever platform you're using!

And if you'd rather see our beautiful faces, as always the video version of the podcast is also available on the Alien vs. Predator Galaxy YouTube channel!

We’ve previously had the pleasure of being joined by several actors who worked on Aliens, including Trevor Steedman (aka Pvt. Weirzbowski), Daniel Kash (aka Pvt. Spunkmeyer), Cynthia Scott (aka Cpl. Dietrich), and Carrie Henn (aka Newt)!

Make sure your browsers are locked into Alien vs. Predator Galaxy for the latest Alien and Predator news! You can also follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube to get the latest on your social media walls. Be sure to join in with fellow Alien and Predator fans on our forums as well!

Link To Post

Man, I forgot about this coming out lol  ;D

2 hours of goodness ? Yummy

---

Voodoo's story was the best one, hands down

Great podcast!

Fabulous

Quote from: Kradan on Jul 18, 2021, 07:27:58 PM
Voodoo's story was the best one, hands down

I guess people will walk away from that one saying.... well that explains a lot!  :laugh:

Thank you guys. Perfect timing just as a 7 day lockdown for my home state is announced here in Australia.

Great podcast!

My Aliens memory is that my brother popped in the VHS and had me watch it. I saw Aliens before Alien, and oddly it was original film that made me sleep with my pillow over my mouth, and hear the sounds of a Facehugger crawling about (imagination). Aliens didn't truamatize me because it felt very much more optimistic, marines (heroes) versus Aliens (monsters), whereas Alien messed with me psychologically.

Alien 3 was actually the first footage I saw as a kid, but the first full length viewing was Aliens, which my bro quoted the whole way through  before iconic lines like "Nobody touch nothin"were spoken. Aliens and Predator were are bonding films, it was a rite of passage for me being seen less as little brother that I could watch films like Aliens.

Aliens I have memorized, and I love the Theatrical Version for the same reasons Voodoo said, its more mysterious, suspenseful and akin to visiting Derelict in first film only this time its the Colony. I felt the dread was reborn that we are Ripley, we know what is lurking, what threat is in the shadows, and that anticipation creates a tension that is palpable. The Director's Cut slowed the pacing down, and the only scene I actually like from it is the Sentry Guns, because it establishes why there are fewer Xenomorphs encountered in The Hive at the climax with Ripley and Newt.

One of my favorite lines is Ripley in Loader when she emerges to face the Queen Alien, "Get away from her you bitch!" ;)

I wanted to comment about how James Cameron was inspired by Starship Troopers and that there was a comment about how some people do some things better than others in the craft of filmmaking, a great example of this is M. Night Shamalyan's "The Happening" and Netflix's "Bird Box." Both had the premise of an invisible force making people commit suicide, but Bird Box did a better job of creating tension, mystery, and world building. You can have a great idea, but its executing it in a unique way that matters in the end.

This is such a great podcast. The stories are all brilliant.

I was fortunate enough to be of the age (14) to see it in the cinema (local Premiere here in Adelaide at the now defunct Regent Arcade cinemas). Told this story a dozen times on here of course - we were given some commemorative badges on the night (still got em https://www.instagram.com/p/BKHzT6djq40/). There was a dude dressed up as a marine and another as a Xeno.

But for some stupid reason I had the Making of the Film magazine that I read prior to seeing the film so I the story was spoilt. Oh well still absolutely had a blast.

It's a good podcast. I didn't listen all the way to the end, but the part I heard was good. It's just...I can only stand to hear so much effusive praise heaped on a movie I don't really enjoy any more. I used to like it a lot, though parts of it irritated me from the very start. Now, I can scarcely stand to watch it. I find the faults (as I perceive them) spoil it more than the great moments can save it.

(https://i.imgur.com/JfXdSIv.gif)

Quote from: Kradan on Jul 23, 2021, 06:56:56 PM
https://i.imgur.com/JfXdSIv.gif

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/51d76a913e066a45297ebbf3f15d2cbe/tenor.gif?itemid=18732426)

Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Jul 23, 2021, 05:53:01 PM
It's a good podcast. I didn't listen all the way to the end, but the part I heard was good. It's just...I can only stand to hear so much effusive praise heaped on a movie I don't really enjoy any more. I used to like it a lot, though parts of it irritated me from the very start. Now, I can scarcely stand to watch it. I find the faults (as I perceive them) spoil it more than the great moments can save it.

Care to elaborate on what you consider its faults? Constructive criticism is always welcome. It is rare on these boards to meet someone who isn't fond of Aliens. I am honestly curious what you consider its faults. I may be major fan of Aliens myself, but I like hearing why someone isn't as keen on it as I am.

Dear Kraden and Rankles,

(https://media.giphy.com/media/vvDcgQHzYPFQY/giphy.gif)

:P

Quote from: Kradan on Jul 23, 2021, 06:56:56 PM
https://i.imgur.com/JfXdSIv.gif

Michael Biehn's best scene IMHO.

Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Jul 24, 2021, 02:20:28 AM
Dear Kraden and Rankles,

https://media.giphy.com/media/vvDcgQHzYPFQY/giphy.gif

:P

Dear XenoHunter99,

:D

Look, I've myself cooled down a bit towards Aliens in recent years. I don't watch it very often, these days I lean more towards the third one. But I can't dismiss the excitement Aliens gave me when I was younger. I can't dismiss the thrill of the hive attack scene. I can't dismiss the tension of facehuggers crawling around the med lab. I can't dismiss the jaw-dropping moment of seeing Queen for the first time. Back in the day, I didn't have opportunity to watch the movie whenever I want - so every time I managed to talk my dad into watching it felt like a special day, like a holiday. Without Aliens my fandom would not lasted as long as it did

I can't stand whole "Alien vs Aliens" argument, comments like "Cameron turned them into bugs, Aliens aren't threat anymore, it's just dumb action pew-pew 80's flick ... " etc. because Aliens is so much more than that

But you talked about "faults" and as City Hunter Yautja I would also like to hear - what are they ?

Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Jul 24, 2021, 02:20:28 AM
Dear Kraden and Rankles,

https://media.giphy.com/media/vvDcgQHzYPFQY/giphy.gif

:P

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/4c6441e3705f60143f78e9a14efbcf04/tumblr_nqfhoqY4661rd84jho7_r1_400.gifv)

;D

Just kidding around, though I would be interested to hear what issues you have with the film. I freely admit to being an unashamed mark for both films in the series, so I'm sure I give Aliens a free pass for some stuff that others wouldn't.

I can get it, I do not personally empathize completely, but I understand the perspective being that it is one of only three entries in the franchise that receive near universal praise, and in that respect listening to people gushing endlessly over thirty five years can be tiring.

Quote from: Kradan on Jul 24, 2021, 05:55:09 AM
I can't stand whole "Alien vs Aliens" argument, comments like "Cameron turned them into bugs, Aliens aren't threat anymore?

Indeed! Valaquen said it best. "In light of the evidence pointing to the original Alien makers being heavily and happily influenced by insects, attributing this to Cameron is akin to blaming wet streets for rain."

And in the first film, the Alien was ultimately defeated when it went up against a handful of untrained-in-combat blue-collar workers. We witnessed a grappling hook puncture its hide and wound it. Yep, the xenos in Aliens are exactly the same threat level as in the film that spawned it. Maybe even more.

Quote from: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 23, 2021, 07:23:53 PM

Care to elaborate on what you consider its faults? Constructive criticism is always welcome. It is rare on these boards to meet someone who isn't fond of Aliens. I am honestly curious what you consider its faults. I may be major fan of Aliens myself, but I like hearing why someone isn't as keen on it as I am.

Hi all,
Sure, I'll be happy to talk a little bit about this. So, first: I'm not trying to kill anyone's love of the movie or say "Ew it's terrible." I still like a lot about it and happily acknowledge its much wider cultural influence. This is also not an Alien vs Aliens sort of thing. I'm talking about my own experience with it as audience. In that capacity, there are parts of the movie that bugged me from the start and, for me, haven't aged well. And I can actually sum much of that up in one thought: Too much Ripley. So, I'll just get in trouble here and probably offend everyone. Apologies in advance.

I've thought about it and it's really a combination of Cameron's writing, his direction, and Weaver's performance in the movie. I don't doubt it's a good performance large portions of her performance grate on me. They did from the start. There's inquest, the part where she briefs the marines, the parts with Newt. It's overplayed. It makes more sense witht he deleted scenes; but If I never see it again, it's fine.

This is not "I hate Sigourney Weaver." She's fine in the original, fine in A3, and even creepy-fine in Resurrection. I like Ripley 8 as a character. Also, no problem watching her in other movies. I love her character in Galaxy Quest, for example. But in Aliens, there is way too much of a certain sort of Ripley.

From a story point of view, sure. She's the Human Queen playing chess with the Alien Queen. But keep in mind, in the 80s, there was no extended director's cut. There was not a lot of the background. You just have Ripley doing all the things she did, the way she did in the theatrical cut. And it's kind of disjointed. I suppose I should cut her some slack 'cause she's probably got an awful case of PTSD. I'm sort of surprised they don't have a pill for that in the future, or maybe they do and Cameron didn't show that part. Either way, that's all I can say about it.

Let's move on to the action sequences. Oh, how can I complain about the action sequences? Well, the dropship crash looked bad even in 1986. So did the chestburster, actually. Around our house, we call the chestburster The Sockpuppet of Doom. They all look like fancy sockpuppets. I have a softspot for the original chestburster because there was really nothing like it before that; and I like the way the scene is framed and shot. But let's tell the truth: Spaceballs took the piss out of the chestburster, and John Hurt was there. And after seeing a chestburster dancing cabaret, how can you take the thing seriously ever again?

Then there is the end, and Ripley using her arm to hold back the whole vacuum of space with a 12 ton monster + powerloader hanging for seemingly forever from her foot. Cue the Hishe Aliens video.



So, yeah. But I don't end on a downer. So let's talk about some positive. The facehuggers still look great! The little buggers are strong, fast, and terrifying! The marines going into the hive sequence is great! Very creepy until it all turns deadly. I especially love that one shot where the creatures start unfolding from the walls. They were there the whole time! There is the shot where the Alien kills Ferro. Very well staged! The last stand fight is still excellent. The way it's lit, the way the creatures move, all of it. Good stuff!  After the survivors withdraw, Gorman got a surprisingly good death. Burke got what he deserved. Cheers to that! And Ripley vs Alien Queen was a good fight. I'd have liked it better if the queen put her tailspike through Ripley's forehead, but plot armor. Can't always have what you want.

Finally, the extended cut wins for showing life on the colony. The before/after contrast is powerful.

And that's all.

Good post! 👏

Thank you Rankles75 :)

Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Jul 24, 2021, 03:09:14 PM

Quote from: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 23, 2021, 07:23:53 PM

Care to elaborate on what you consider its faults? Constructive criticism is always welcome. It is rare on these boards to meet someone who isn't fond of Aliens. I am honestly curious what you consider its faults. I may be major fan of Aliens myself, but I like hearing why someone isn't as keen on it as I am.

Hi all,
Sure, I'll be happy to talk a little bit about this. So, first: I'm not trying to kill anyone's love of the movie or say "Ew it's terrible." I still like a lot about it and happily acknowledge its much wider cultural influence. This is also not an Alien vs Aliens sort of thing. I'm talking about my own experience with it as audience. In that capacity, there are parts of the movie that bugged me from the start and, for me, haven't aged well. And I can actually sum much of that up in one thought: Too much Ripley. So, I'll just get in trouble here and probably offend everyone. Apologies in advance.

I've thought about it and it's really a combination of Cameron's writing, his direction, and Weaver's performance in the movie. I don't doubt it's a good performance large portions of her performance grate on me. They did from the start. There's inquest, the part where she briefs the marines, the parts with Newt. It's overplayed. It makes more sense witht he deleted scenes; but If I never see it again, it's fine.

This is not "I hate Sigourney Weaver." She's fine in the original, fine in A3, and even creepy-fine in Resurrection. I like Ripley 8 as a character. Also, no problem watching her in other movies. I love her character in Galaxy Quest, for example. But in Aliens, there is way too much of a certain sort of Ripley.

From a story point of view, sure. She's the Human Queen playing chess with the Alien Queen. But keep in mind, in the 80s, there was no extended director's cut. There was not a lot of the background. You just have Ripley doing all the things she did, the way she did in the theatrical cut. And it's kind of disjointed. I suppose I should cut her some slack 'cause she's probably got an awful case of PTSD. I'm sort of surprised they don't have a pill for that in the future, or maybe they do and Cameron didn't show that part. Either way, that's all I can say about it.

Let's move on to the action sequences. Oh, how can I complain about the action sequences? Well, the dropship crash looked bad even in 1986. So did the chestburster, actually. Around our house, we call the chestburster The Sockpuppet of Doom. They all look like fancy sockpuppets. I have a softspot for the original chestburster because there was really nothing like it before that; and I like the way the scene is framed and shot. But let's tell the truth: Spaceballs took the piss out of the chestburster, and John Hurt was there. And after seeing a chestburster dancing cabaret, how can you take the thing seriously ever again?

Then there is the end, and Ripley using her arm to hold back the whole vacuum of space with a 12 ton monster + powerloader hanging for seemingly forever from her foot. Cue the Hishe Aliens video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcFnvULy8zA

So, yeah. But I don't end on a downer. So let's talk about some positive. The facehuggers still look great! The little buggers are strong, fast, and terrifying! The marines going into the hive sequence is great! Very creepy until it all turns deadly. I especially love that one shot where the creatures start unfolding from the walls. They were there the whole time! There is the shot where the Alien kills Ferro. Very well staged! The last stand fight is still excellent. The way it's lit, the way the creatures move, all of it. Good stuff!  After the survivors withdraw, Gorman got a surprisingly good death. Burke got what he deserved. Cheers to that! And Ripley vs Alien Queen was a good fight. I'd have liked it better if the queen put her tailspike through Ripley's forehead, but plot armor. Can't always have what you want.

Finally, the extended cut wins for showing life on the colony. The before/after contrast is powerful.

And that's all.

Your critiques of Ripley are valid. I think I didn't notice them as much because the wider cast takes your attention off her until the last 20mins which is all her. I agree with you, Ripley comes off a little too zealous and bossy in those scenes, especially on LV-421's Colony. She's a civilian, but is giving orders. She also doesn't seemes horrified enough, I mean at the beginning of the film she has PTSD and fears becoming a hist, but in also her scenes on LV she is calm, composed, and frankly lacking the craven demeanor from earlier in the film.

Ripley is better in Alien and Alien 3 I agree. There her behavior seems more realistic. James Cameron made Ripley too much of Linda Hamilton/ Sarah Conner T2 knock off (even though I realize T2 came later).

I think the facehugger scene lacks tension because its Ripley and Newt. Had they been released on everyone, and Hutson got one on his face, that would have been a fitting end to him; loudest and most talkative guy gets his pie hole stuffed with facehugger. Perhaps Burke even getting a facehugger on him too, some reverse justice since he released them.

While I likes the Alien Queen vs Ripley in the Loader, the scene when she opens the airlock and Queen Alien holds on to her leg is ridiculous. Her leg would have snapped or tore off.

While I love Aliens, I admit it has flaws. Like any movie we overlook the flaws because the full product is well done. I think Aliens is well done, but yes, Cameron went over the top in areas.

I read that whole post and am still not sure what the actual problem is. Too much of a "certain sort" of Ripley? What does that even mean  :laugh:

Ripley responds to difficult situations by switching into problem solving mode. This is consistent in the first three movies. She's a "bossy" character, constantly butting heads with authority. Again, consistent in the movies.

I'm no cheerleader for the film - I've never much liked it - but I'm not sure what the particular issue there is.

Quote from: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 24, 2021, 08:04:20 PM
Ripley is better in Alien and Alien 3 I agree.

(https://media.tenor.com/images/4ced4908d71f3fd391b021d8ac0939bd/tenor.gif)

I prefer her in 1 and 3 but honestly it may just be the perm.

 :laugh:

Well I have no defense for the hairstyle.

Quote from: SiL on Jul 24, 2021, 10:26:57 PM
I prefer her in 1 and 3 but honestly it may just be the perm.

Sigourney does look better in longer hair. I mean I had a crush on her in Resurrection.

Alien 3 G.I. Jane look isn't my fav, but it works for the movie.

Yeah the Aliens hair f**king sucks.

So far its unanimous, Rupley's Aliens hairdo sucks.

I have to say Aliens also is least terrifying entry. Alien and Alien3 mess with you psychologically. That was the genius of Alien3 it made you get inkling of the terror from Alien that Ripley is carrying a chestburster inside her, which makes you empathically think about one being in yourself (or at least I did).

Cameron didn't emphasize the horror of the Xenomorph life cycle enough. Its too fun a thrill ride to really let the horror penetrate your mind and soul as it did in Alien.

The lead into the Operations firefight is singularly more nerve wracking and suspenseful than anything Alien 3 managed.

The growing dread and realisation as the Aliens close in, followed by one of the most iconic reveals of the entire franchise, is a masterpiece of suspense.

Quote from: SiL on Jul 25, 2021, 01:41:43 AM
The lead into the Operations firefight is singularly more nerve wracking and suspenseful than anything Alien 3 managed.

The growing dread and realisation as the Aliens close in, followed by one of the most iconic reveals of the entire franchise, is a masterpiece of suspense.

Suspense yes, but not horror.

I don't know. Burke's hair was pretty horrifying.

Alien 3 didn't manage any of that, either.

But I disagree. There's plenty horrific in ALIENS. I was more bothered by Ferro's death as a kid than any of the deaths in Alien 3. Thinking about what happened to the colony - kids and all - is good nightmare fuel, especially when you realise just how many twisted, rotting skeletons the Marines walk past in the hive.

Quote from: SiL on Jul 25, 2021, 01:41:43 AM
The lead into the Operations firefight is singularly more nerve wracking and suspenseful than anything Alien 3 managed.

The growing dread and realisation as the Aliens close in, followed by one of the most iconic reveals of the entire franchise, is a masterpiece of suspense.

Quite.

Quote from: SiL on Jul 25, 2021, 01:51:02 AM
Alien 3 didn't manage any of that, either.

But I disagree. There's plenty horrific in ALIENS. I was more bothered by Ferro's death as a kid than any of the deaths in Alien 3. Thinking about what happened to the colony - kids and all - is good nightmare fuel, especially when you realise just how many twisted, rotting skeletons the Marines walk past in the hive.

Ah but you are talking about when you were a kid. I am not. I rewatched Alien and Alien3, and they hold up on certain horror moments and elements over the years. I am saying Aliens doesn't. Its a thriller to me, not a true horror film or if I must call it horror, Horror Light.

Cameron wanting to make a war movie first bleeds through.. like acid blood. Kinda like Scott tacking on Alien elements to Prometheus when he wanted to focus exclusively on the Spacejockey, Cameron at times feels like he wanted to make Starship Troopers movie.

I mention when I was a kid because those were my first impressions. If anything, Aliens has grown in me over the years, where originally I really didn't like it.

There was never anything truly horrific about Alien 3. It was always much more of a thriller. The entire first half plays out more like a drama than a horror movie.

I like the film, but it's very light on horror elements.

Do you include the Theatrical and Assembly Cut in your Alien 3 analysis?

If we are gonna talk about first impressions, Alien 3 Theatrical scared the shiz out of me, the dog being the host. I then wondered if my dog had a chestburster inside.

I say Alien 3 is more horroresque because the Xeno picks people off one by one in some gruesome scenes. Aliens feels more sanitized, the chestburster scene fell flat on me because the colonist didn't look human enough.

Honestly, Aliens could have been PG-13 with some editing.

Alien 3 was just boring.  A well-crafted film in many ways, but the story had no suspense.

Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 25, 2021, 02:08:23 AM
Alien 3 was just boring.  A well-crafted film in many ways, but the story had no suspense.

Suspense yes, but horror? Did Aliens horrify you like Alien?

Hudson being pulled screaming under the floor was more horrifying than the faceless prisoner heads exploding. That's some good nightmare fuel right there.

Quote from: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 25, 2021, 02:10:07 AM

Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 25, 2021, 02:08:23 AM
Alien 3 was just boring.  A well-crafted film in many ways, but the story had no suspense.

Suspense yes, but horror? Did Aliens horrify you like Alien?

Yes. Alien 3 did not. It had neither suspense nor horror. A fine cast and some nice cinematography and some beautiful music, but no horror.

The hive scene was solid horror.

Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 25, 2021, 02:08:23 AM
Alien 3 was just boring.

Pure unadulterated heresy.

I absolutely agree that the last act loses the horror edge when Ripley goes back to the hive onwards though.

Horror by definition:

a) an intense feeling of fear, shock, or disgust.

I felt that way about the prison and scenery itself, not to mention the Xeno. Alien did that for me too, the environments made me feel horror (The Derelict, LV-421, Nostromo), not just the Xeno.

Aliens is thrilling, suspenseful, and even action packed, but it did not make me feel ill like Alien and Alien 3 did. Ill as in turned my stomach and made my mind crawl with thoughts.

Suspense in ALIENS comes from fear. You are afraid the Aliens will get them, you are afraid they will die. If there's no fear of what the Aliens will do to the Marines then there's no suspense.

You can't say the film is suspenseful and then try to say there's no fear.

Although ALIEN³ was my first Alien movie being aware of having seen it, my parents were watching ALIENS when I was only 5 years old. I was supposed to have been asleep, and they put me right back in bed. I remember seeing this scene, which scared me very much. 👻

Quote from: SiL on Jul 25, 2021, 02:24:15 AM
Suspense in ALIENS comes from fear. You are afraid the Aliens will get them, you are afraid they will die. If there's no fear of what the Aliens will do to the Marines then there's no suspense.

You can't say the film is suspenseful and then try to say there's no fear.

Well I didn't say there is no fear, but horror combines fear, shock, and disgust.  Yes I am afraid the Xenomorphs will get them, but its nowhere near Kane among the eggs on the Derelict and bursted, nor do we see any real gruesome chestburster become a full formed Xeno in Aliens.

The investigation of the colony, then the hive, is full of tension, like Kane. There are ample shocks throughout the film

Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jul 25, 2021, 02:24:56 AM
Although ALIEN³ was my first Alien movie being aware of having seen it, my parents were watching ALIENS when I was only 5 years old. I was supposed to have been asleep, and they put me right back in bed. I remember seeing this scene, which scared me very much. 👻

(https://i.ibb.co/4NG3CvK/newt-16.jpg)

I am glad that scared you. For me I knew Newt had plot armor. It wasn't till AVP Requiem that the "children are off limits" ended.

Quote from: SiL on Jul 25, 2021, 02:35:19 AM
The investigation of the colony, then the hive, is full of tension, like Kane. There are ample shocks throughout the film

Where you disgusted? How often were you feeling fear, shock, and disgust. Alien had it from opening till the airlock for me.

I was disgusted by the chestburster and the facehugger ovipositors, yes. Which is about as much as I was disgusted by Alien. We've already discussed fear and shock.

I can't say anything about the opening ten minutes of Alien was particular gross or shocking, but your reaction to John Hurt's nipples may vary, I guess

And Aliens established kids weren't off-limits when Newt told us her brother died - along with all the kids. Showing a child dying arguably made it laughable, not more horrific.

Quote from: SiL on Jul 25, 2021, 07:25:26 AM
I was disgusted by the chestburster and the facehugger ovipositors, yes. Which is about as much as I was disgusted by Alien. We've already discussed fear and shock.

I can't say anything about the opening ten minutes of Alien was particular gross or shocking, but your reaction to John Hurt's nipples may vary, I guess

And Aliens established kids weren't off-limits when Newt told us her brother died - along with all the kids. Showing a child dying arguably made it laughable, not more horrific.

I felt the tension is there in opening of Alien, the planet and the ship.

Ah yes, but Newt's brother's death was off screen. So it didn't count to me.

I actually rate the Aliens Chestburster quite highly, I think it's arguably more horrifying than the original one, but I agree that a lot of the rest of the film's beats come across as "feeling safe" by comparison.

I thought the second film burster was very effective, too. The actress did a great job with two minutes of screentime.

I wouldn't argue Aliens is as horrifying, as it does ease up in many places, but it's called an action horror for a reason

Quote from: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 24, 2021, 08:04:20 PM
Your critiques of Ripley are valid. I think I didn't notice them as much because the wider cast takes your attention off her until the last 20mins which is all her. I agree with you, Ripley comes off a little too zealous and bossy in those scenes, especially on LV-421's Colony. She's a civilian, but is giving orders. She also doesn't seemes horrified enough, I mean at the beginning of the film she has PTSD and fears becoming a hist, but in also her scenes on LV she is calm, composed, and frankly lacking the craven demeanor from earlier in the film.

Ripley is better in Alien and Alien 3 I agree. There her behavior seems more realistic. James Cameron made Ripley too much of Linda Hamilton/ Sarah Conner T2 knock off (even though I realize T2 came later).

I think the facehugger scene lacks tension because its Ripley and Newt. Had they been released on everyone, and Hutson got one on his face, that would have been a fitting end to him; loudest and most talkative guy gets his pie hole stuffed with facehugger. Perhaps Burke even getting a facehugger on him too, some reverse justice since he released them.

While I likes the Alien Queen vs Ripley in the Loader, the scene when she opens the airlock and Queen Alien holds on to her leg is ridiculous. Her leg would have snapped or tore off.

While I love Aliens, I admit it has flaws. Like any movie we overlook the flaws because the full product is well done. I think Aliens is well done, but yes, Cameron went over the top in areas.

Thanks and thanks for sharing your thoughts. Cool!

Your ideas about who to facehug would be entertaining if they could find life in an "Elseworlds" story or something. I think a lot of ideas would be fun to explore. As for the huggers, I was (still am) impressed with how the huggers came off as being very dangerous. It took the help of the 3 marines to rescue Ripley from it. But I agree: No way Newt or Ripley would have been hugged there. Plot armor! Maybe Ripley was a sort of prototype for T2 Sarah Connor, the same way the Betty crew was a prototype for the crew on Firefly. Or maybe James Cameron has a thing for tough women. I really think, with Ripley's briefing in hand, T2+ Sarah Connor would have a surprise or two for our favorite space parasite.  ;D Also, in crossover hell, who in their right mind would stand against those two heroines?

On other related posts...
I think SiL mentioned something about Ripley being anti-authority and bossy. She certainly turned out that way, especially after Ash showed her the true nature of life in corporate space.  And WY execs went out of their way to reinforce her distrust. She started out by-the-book, but always thinking.

If you look at her timeline, in terms of awake time, original Ellen Ripley was a short-lived character. She was awake a few days on the Nostromo. She was asleep 57 years. Too bad she couldn't have access to cryosleep training programs as in Demolition Man. Then she was awake for a while on Gateway station. It was likely weeks, a couple months(?) before she left - Long enough to get a dock job and learn to drive a powerloader like a pro. Asleep for the return to LV426. Awake on the ship and on the planet for a few days total? Asleep on the Sulaco until it caught on fire. Ejected onto Fiorina. Awake for a few more days or a week until she died. She transformed a lot over a short period of awake time.  :o

The difference between Alien and Aliens has always to me felt that Aliens was more tense.


Tension and horror are two different feelings for me.  The first film was better at horror, especially after learning of the egg morph, body horror is something that weirds me out. 

Aliens on the other hand felt consistently more tense throughout the film.  You know the other shoe is going to drop, you just don't know when.  The different styles between the two films are what made the series last so long imo.

To be truthful, Aliens shouldn't be as scary as Alien.  If you have seen the first film, you know what the Alien is all about in the second.  Different tacts are needed to keep the series alive.

And while I definately do no care for the series direction that Prometheus went in, I do appreciate that the attempt was not just Alien again told through the fifth iteration. 

Basically due to the law of diminishing returns you have to try new things in the series..........otherwise it just fades into obscurity.  You either have to up the stakes, change the mode of storytelling (going from horror, to action, to drama etc) move the series in another direction etc.

It's like when I play the Alien invasion of earth scenario in my head, I don't see Aliens 2.0, but kind of a way for a storyteller to tell what a future earth would be like that suddenly comes to a grinding halt with the Alien invasion, with a small group of survivors trying to reach a shelter or get off world or something.  Not massive armies vs massive hordes of Aliens.

Telling an Aliens 2.0 would only benefit its release initially.  If it just told the exact same story with the exact same story beats with only more aliens and more marines audiences would quickly realize this and not come back to it after a while.  Gotta throw some different spice on what you are cooking. 

Quote from: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 25, 2021, 02:16:14 AM
Horror by definition:
a) an intense feeling of fear, shock, or disgust.

Quote from: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 25, 2021, 02:47:13 AM

Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jul 25, 2021, 02:24:56 AM

Quote from: SiL on Jul 25, 2021, 02:35:19 AM
The investigation of the colony, then the hive, is full of tension, like Kane. There are ample shocks throughout the film

Where you disgusted? How often were you feeling fear, shock, and disgust. Alien had it from opening till the airlock for me.

You substituted or for and. Disgust is not a prerequisite for horror. :)

I believe Cameron spoke about not relying too heavily on the gore and such in Aliens.

Indeed he did Huggsy! For me personally, the best, most unnerving horror never requires gore. I would go as far as saying gore would diminish it!

Quote from: Kimarhi on Jul 25, 2021, 04:55:57 PM
And while I definately do no care for the series direction that Prometheus went in, I do appreciate that the attempt was not just Alien again told through the fifth iteration. 

Basically due to the law of diminishing returns you have to try new things in the series..........otherwise it just fades into obscurity.  You either have to up the stakes, change the mode of storytelling (going from horror, to action, to drama etc) move the series in another direction etc.

It's like when I play the Alien invasion of earth scenario in my head, I don't see Aliens 2.0, but kind of a way for a storyteller to tell what a future earth would be like that suddenly comes to a grinding halt with the Alien invasion, with a small group of survivors trying to reach a shelter or get off world or something.  Not massive armies vs massive hordes of Aliens.

Telling an Aliens 2.0 would only benefit its release initially.  If it just told the exact same story with the exact same story beats with only more aliens and more marines audiences would quickly realize this and not come back to it after a while.  Gotta throw some different spice on what you are cooking.

Yes, PROMETHEUS is a genuine attempt to do something different despite its flaws, and while ALIEN³ is a good Alien movie, I think after ALIENS it was time to do something really different.  I know people disagree, but I think ALIENS was the best sequel ALIEN could have had, and after that it was time to come up with something special, instead of trying to be Alien again. In fact, Blomkamp's project seemed to be nothing but a bigger & badder ALIENS , and that's one of the reasons why it doesn't bother me that it wasn't done.

I have mixed feelings with the Alien invasion of Earth, because on the one hand it can be a terrible idea, but on the other it can establish that the Aliens are an unstoppable threat, which will not always be stopped by a heroine in a spaceship or colony on another planet, so the Aliens could become the end of mankind, somehow.

Now, how can you achieve that in a credible way? I have no idea. But I do think there are a couple of things to keep in mind:

• It has to be in the future, since that way you do not contradict continuity and at the same time you show a futuristic planet Earth, which is more interesting than today.
  
  



• It doesn't have to be James Cameron's ALIENS again. You have to somehow do something special and genuinely different, even though there is combat between Aliens and Marines.

Ok this might not be the best example at all, but the recent movie THE WAR OF TOMORROW left me wondering about that possibility, since in the story...

Spoiler

The Earth is attacked by vicious alien monsters, with very fast reproduction. In the end, the protagonists discover that the invaders are biological weapons sent by an unknown civilization thousands of years ago (the capsule that transported the queen and the warriors was buried in a Russian glacier.  :laugh:

[close]

And so far, the prequels presented a different direction, trying to incorporate existential gothic horror into myths, but ultimately it is an esoteric concept and not something universally acclaimed, and it seems to have worked better with the RAISED By WOLVES universe, which has nothing to do with Alien. Actually, I think elements of the prequels have grown in a good way thanks to Alex White. Something more or less similar happened with the STAR WARS prequels. I mean, Scott is a better director than Lucas, but the end result went through something similar: much of that lore has been able to really shine thanks to the interquelish works of talented people like Jon Favreau & Dave Filoni.

That said, I hope Noah Hawley hires Alex White as a creative consultant, since the TV series is the next installment.  :laugh:

Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Jul 25, 2021, 01:47:06 PM

Quote from: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 24, 2021, 08:04:20 PM
Your critiques of Ripley are valid. I think I didn't notice them as much because the wider cast takes your attention off her until the last 20mins which is all her. I agree with you, Ripley comes off a little too zealous and bossy in those scenes, especially on LV-421's Colony. She's a civilian, but is giving orders. She also doesn't seemes horrified enough, I mean at the beginning of the film she has PTSD and fears becoming a hist, but in also her scenes on LV she is calm, composed, and frankly lacking the craven demeanor from earlier in the film.

Ripley is better in Alien and Alien 3 I agree. There her behavior seems more realistic. James Cameron made Ripley too much of Linda Hamilton/ Sarah Conner T2 knock off (even though I realize T2 came later).

I think the facehugger scene lacks tension because its Ripley and Newt. Had they been released on everyone, and Hutson got one on his face, that would have been a fitting end to him; loudest and most talkative guy gets his pie hole stuffed with facehugger. Perhaps Burke even getting a facehugger on him too, some reverse justice since he released them.

While I likes the Alien Queen vs Ripley in the Loader, the scene when she opens the airlock and Queen Alien holds on to her leg is ridiculous. Her leg would have snapped or tore off.

While I love Aliens, I admit it has flaws. Like any movie we overlook the flaws because the full product is well done. I think Aliens is well done, but yes, Cameron went over the top in areas.

Thanks and thanks for sharing your thoughts. Cool!

Your ideas about who to facehug would be entertaining if they could find life in an "Elseworlds" story or something. I think a lot of ideas would be fun to explore. As for the huggers, I was (still am) impressed with how the huggers came off as being very dangerous. It took the help of the 3 marines to rescue Ripley from it. But I agree: No way Newt or Ripley would have been hugged there. Plot armor! Maybe Ripley was a sort of prototype for T2 Sarah Connor, the same way the Betty crew was a prototype for the crew on Firefly. Or maybe James Cameron has a thing for tough women. I really think, with Ripley's briefing in hand, T2+ Sarah Connor would have a surprise or two for our favorite space parasite.  ;D Also, in crossover hell, who in their right mind would stand against those two heroines?

On other related posts...
I think SiL mentioned something about Ripley being anti-authority and bossy. She certainly turned out that way, especially after Ash showed her the true nature of life in corporate space.  And WY execs went out of their way to reinforce her distrust. She started out by-the-book, but always thinking.

If you look at her timeline, in terms of awake time, original Ellen Ripley was a short-lived character. She was awake a few days on the Nostromo. She was asleep 57 years. Too bad she couldn't have access to cryosleep training programs as in Demolition Man. Then she was awake for a while on Gateway station. It was likely weeks, a couple months(?) before she left - Long enough to get a dock job and learn to drive a powerloader like a pro. Asleep for the return to LV426. Awake on the ship and on the planet for a few days total? Asleep on the Sulaco until it caught on fire. Ejected onto Fiorina. Awake for a few more days or a week until she died. She transformed a lot over a short period of awake time.  :o

Rupley is badass no doubt about it. Its just I felt more of a connection with her PTSD self in earlier part of the film. I think he going Rambk works, but I just think we don't see her horror over the hist lifecycle again till Alien3 (I mean the autopsy of Newt was disturbing).

Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jul 25, 2021, 05:08:32 PM

Quote from: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 25, 2021, 02:16:14 AM
Horror by definition:
a) an intense feeling of fear, shock, or disgust.

Quote from: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 25, 2021, 02:47:13 AM

Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jul 25, 2021, 02:24:56 AM

Quote from: SiL on Jul 25, 2021, 02:35:19 AM
The investigation of the colony, then the hive, is full of tension, like Kane. There are ample shocks throughout the film

Where you disgusted? How often were you feeling fear, shock, and disgust. Alien had it from opening till the airlock for me.

You substituted or for and. Disgust is not a prerequisite for horror. :)

I stand corrected, thank you Elder. *makes fealty Yautja roar*

I shall say for me, horror has to have the disgust aspect, the messing with my mind as you get Hypochondria like moments and seeing not just the gore but the mutilation on screen or off screen; Newt's autopsy was more cringeworthy to me than Kane's chestbuster. To me Alien and Alien3 had the balance of fear, shock, and disgust, while Aliens lacked the disgust for me by comparison.

Much classic horror doesn't - and couldn't - feature disgusting moments, and I feel it's a pity to discredit all of them for want of some blood.

While I enjoy the Powerloader Ripley vs The Queen, it did feel very much like something to sport a ride at Universal Studios. For that reason it takes me out of the movie at moments.

Quote from: Huggs on Jul 25, 2021, 02:15:01 AM

Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 25, 2021, 02:08:23 AM
Alien 3 was just boring.

Pure unadulterated heresy.

Yeah, burn him with fire  >:(

---

Regarding the horror issue - for me it goes like this :

Alien - horror

Aliens - action (with bits of horror)

Alien 3 - drama

And I'm OK with each movie being what it is. I agree with TQ that Aliens feels more "safe" compared to Alien and I agree with SiL that there ain't much horror in Alien 3

Quote from: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 25, 2021, 11:56:01 PM
While I enjoy the Powerloader Ripley vs The Queen, it did feel very much like something to sport a ride at Universal Studios. For that reason it takes me out of the movie at moments.

I would've made the battle quicker and more violent.  When Ripley is slowly trying to punch or succeeding in punching the queen, it feels more like Godzilla vs spectacle than anything else.  Maybe have Ripley clamp onto the body and the head of the queen with the powerloader and then toppling into the airlock because in that same instant the alien disabled the hydraulics of the forklift or something with tail or acid blood or something.  Same result but without as much fanfare.  I'd also get rid of the Alien queen holding onto Ripley's foot in a vacuum.  The Queen should've been able to pluck Ripley off the ladder like a grown up human plucking a kitten from the couch.  The foot hold thing is my take me out of the movie moment. 

Yep.

Quote from: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 25, 2021, 08:34:11 PM
Rupley is badass no doubt about it. Its just I felt more of a connection with her PTSD self in earlier part of the film. I think he going Rambk works, but I just think we don't see her horror over the hist lifecycle again till Alien3 (I mean the autopsy of Newt was disturbing).

Ripley made the most of minimal weapons training. She must have had more training earlier in life. Does two minutes of on-screen coaching magically inspire one to duck-tape two weapons together and go full-on Rambolina? It's a stretch. That aside, she seems a good person to have around in a crisis. Agreed about the PTSD! We'd all be horrified to learn we have deadly parasites growing inside us. And yes, Newt's autopsy is disturbing. That was effective movie-making. The first time you see it, I think there is the expectation that there might be something extra inside. Well played, Alien 3.  :)

Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Jul 27, 2021, 03:11:48 AMRipley made the most of minimal weapons training. She must have had more training earlier in life.

As a commercial flight officer, Ripley was technically proficient and may have had basic training with certain small arms (like the laser pistols (https://avp.fandom.com/wiki/RXF-M5_EVA_Pistol) that they had on the Nostromo).  She also knew how to operate Parker's flamethrower without anyone showing her how (that we saw).

Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Jul 27, 2021, 03:11:48 AMDoes two minutes of on-screen coaching magically inspire one to duck-tape two weapons together and go full-on Rambolina?

Necessity is the mother of invention.  One of Ripley's more admirable qualities is that she's so resourceful in a crisis.

Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 27, 2021, 03:23:25 AM

Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Jul 27, 2021, 03:11:48 AMRipley made the most of minimal weapons training. She must have had more training earlier in life.

As a commercial flight officer, Ripley was technically proficient and may have had basic training with certain small arms (like the laser pistols (https://avp.fandom.com/wiki/RXF-M5_EVA_Pistol) that they had on the Nostromo).  She also knew how to operate Parker's flamethrower without anyone showing her how (that we saw).

Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Jul 27, 2021, 03:11:48 AMDoes two minutes of on-screen coaching magically inspire one to duck-tape two weapons together and go full-on Rambolina?

Necessity is the mother of invention.  One of Ripley's more admirable qualities is that she's so resourceful in a crisis.

Exactly. The same ingenuity she displayed in the first film. Strapping herself in, grabbing a grappling hook gun and then drawing the beast out (via experimentation with gas emissions) so she could blast it out the airlock.

Indeed!

Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 27, 2021, 03:23:25 AM

Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Jul 27, 2021, 03:11:48 AMRipley made the most of minimal weapons training. She must have had more training earlier in life.

As a commercial flight officer, Ripley was technically proficient and may have had basic training with certain small arms (like the laser pistols (https://avp.fandom.com/wiki/RXF-M5_EVA_Pistol) that they had on the Nostromo).  She also knew how to operate Parker's flamethrower without anyone showing her how (that we saw).

Never made that connection myself. Good call !

If the cattle prod had to be explained, odds are parker's "rigged" incinerator units were explained to the crew off-screen.

People are also assuming that she wasn't familiar with weapons before hand.


I was shooting rifles and shotguns before I was ten years old.  It's not that uncommon for people from the States to be well versed in the subject without having law enforcement or military training. 

It isn't really like she moved militarily, she just pointed in the right direction and got one in OPS, and then went full mom mode in the hive.  I honestly have less problem with that aspect than most people do.  Because what she did isn't hard.  Of all the things you could face militarily an 8' tall enemy that rushes right at you is  probably the one you want after you.  It's a big target.  What it does if it catches you is horrific yes, but until it gets there that advantage is yours.

Moving tactically is harder than basic marksmanship.

Ripley is the definition of spray and pray in ALIENS.

I actually liked that it showed her suffering the recoil in the ops battle.  The fact she was falling away as she pulled the trigger showed that she had in no way mastered the weapon. 

It's a nice touch. And even later when she knows what to expect, you can tell she's struggling to keep it in place.