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I don't know if there is a topic about this yet...

Anyway, In the sneak peak/trailer we get to see a glimpse of an old school predator hanging in a three, being captured by the new ones.

Do you think that the old school predators will become "good guys" now?
You know, him hanging there in a three waiting to be rescued like a princess is waiting for her knight to rescue her out of her misery.
He's a killer turned into a helpless victim, is he the new Scar?

They won't get turned into good guys, they will still be ruthless bastards. We're just going to witness tribe/clan rivalry in the Movie.

Spoiler

i'll put spoiler just in case. i think the interaction between royce and the pred will be similar to that of btw harrigan and the elder in P2, unlike the one in AVP, which was overdone to the point of ridiculous. so i'm really looking forward to the scene where royce releases the classic predator. no scratch that, i can't wait for the whole film. PREDATORS ON THE BIG SCREEN AGAIN, THIS TIME WITHOUT HAVING TO SHARE IT WITH THOSE DARN BUGS

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Jason fought and nearly won over Freddy in FVJ. Doesn't make him a good guy.

Quote from: Dusk on Mar 19, 2010, 12:42:31 PM
They won't get turned into good guys, they will still be ruthless bastards. We're just going to witness tribe/clan rivalry in the Movie.

I totally agree.  We are gonna see some awesome fights

I think the ending has changed....

Spoiler

There is a scene in the trailer where Royce is being strangled or being pinned down by a Preadtor. This scene is from the ending however there is no point in the leaked script where Mr Black actually manages to get hold of Royce in the climatic battle. If I remember correctly, Royce outwits the Pred by setting the forrest on fire and then does a suprise attack on him with an axe....at no point does the Predator physically get hold of him.

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EDIT....No I was wrong. The scene is in the script just forgot about it.

Quote from: Milan on Mar 19, 2010, 12:40:27 PM
Anyway, In the sneak peak/trailer we get to see a glimpse of an old school predator hanging in a three, being captured by the new ones.

This what you're talking about?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg717.imageshack.us%2Fimg717%2F3038%2Fpredmounted.jpg&hash=ffda92780ad5ed5ac6f8fc33729c0cc059f1bf8c)

If Predators became good guys, it would suck hard.
Just look at AvP.

And that reminds me:
Imagine how much worse AvPR would of been if the Predalien teamed up with the Pred.

I think its going to be a case of "the enemy of my enemy must be my friend", and that will last only as long as both share the same enemy.

Well, I don't think a creature that's life spent with killing dangerous life forms and ripping their skull and spinal cord would turn a princess because t's captured.
A soldier stays a soldier, even if captured.
No point in comparing it to the case of scar. That was some extreme stupidity concentrated in a shape of a (very poorly constructed) predator figure.
The fact it would try to eliminate the other clan members wouldn't be equal to him helping the humans.

They have honor thats all,that doesnt make them any less cold blooded killing machines.

Well, that Pred will still need the help by a human to survive the situation he's in.
And if the movie follows the script then that is going to happen.
So the gap between this one and Lex and Scars "team up" ain't that big if you compare them.

I've only read the script once, but I don't remember the Pred showing any hostility towards Royce when he set him free.

Quote from: OmegaZilla on Mar 19, 2010, 01:43:42 PM
Jason fought and nearly won over Freddy in FVJ. Doesn't make him a good guy.

Yeah, But that was because he would have killed the teens if he got the chance, he still was a serious threat to them. Their relationship wasn't neutral or friendly.
I'm afraid that the old school Predator will act neutral or friendly towards Royce.
And that will give him a spot next to "Scar" among the "Girly" men, no I mean Predators ;)

I didn't say anything about friendly neither neutral relationships - I said that the fact that he fought another bad guy doesn't make him a good guy or a hero.

Quote from: OmegaZilla on Mar 19, 2010, 10:00:18 PM
I didn't say anything about friendly neither neutral relationships - I said that the fact that he fought another bad guy doesn't make him a good guy or a hero.

Well, Yes, he's still a bad guy but how Jason acts makes him a bad guy and if you ain't his mom then his actions ain't gonna be friendly or neutral towards you, he will kill you if the oppertunity arises, even if you where the one that set him free.

I got a feeling that we won't saying the same thing about the old school Predator...

Quote from: OmegaZilla on Mar 19, 2010, 01:43:42 PM
Jason fought and nearly won over Freddy in FVJ. Doesn't make him a good guy.

Nearly?

He walked away with his severed head in his hand.

i wouldnt mind if they joined up with that captured predator, maybe not the predator joining the humans side and killing other preds, but they wont kill each other...or atleast not there at that moment

Quote from: Nihilus on Mar 19, 2010, 11:44:54 PM

Quote from: OmegaZilla on Mar 19, 2010, 01:43:42 PM
Jason fought and nearly won over Freddy in FVJ. Doesn't make him a good guy.

Nearly?

He walked away with his severed head in his hand.

I second this.

Quote from: draken161 on Mar 21, 2010, 05:18:55 AM

Quote from: Nihilus on Mar 19, 2010, 11:44:54 PM

Quote from: OmegaZilla on Mar 19, 2010, 01:43:42 PM
Jason fought and nearly won over Freddy in FVJ. Doesn't make him a good guy.

Nearly?

He walked away with his severed head in his hand.

I second this.

Off topic: there is two endings in FVJ, one where jason wins and another where freddy wins.

On topic: I havent read the script as I've said before but how much are we gonna see of the old school predator?

Spoiler

Do we first see him tied to a pole like in the trailer? Not sure if this is a spoiler but put it in anyway.

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Quote from: Raptor on Mar 19, 2010, 04:50:20 PM
They have honor thats all,that doesnt make them any less cold blooded killing machines.

You actually believe the honor concept?

Glad to know I am not alone.

-Rakai'Thwei

Quote from: Nihilus on Mar 19, 2010, 11:44:54 PM

Quote from: OmegaZilla on Mar 19, 2010, 01:43:42 PM
Jason fought and nearly won over Freddy in FVJ. Doesn't make him a good guy.

Nearly?

He walked away with his severed head in his hand.

Um, yeah. Never seen the whole movie. And the fact that Freddy winks is somwhat the reason of my "nearly".

Quote from: Corporate Merc on Mar 21, 2010, 06:09:12 AM

Quote from: draken161 on Mar 21, 2010, 05:18:55 AM

Quote from: Nihilus on Mar 19, 2010, 11:44:54 PM

Quote from: OmegaZilla on Mar 19, 2010, 01:43:42 PM
Jason fought and nearly won over Freddy in FVJ. Doesn't make him a good guy.

Nearly?

He walked away with his severed head in his hand.

I second this.

Off topic: there is two endings in FVJ, one where jason wins and another where freddy wins.

On topic: I havent read the script as I've said before but how much are we gonna see of the old school predator?

Spoiler

Do we first see him tied to a pole like in the trailer? Not sure if this is a spoiler but put it in anyway.

[close]

Yes

Quote from: Nihilus on Mar 19, 2010, 11:44:54 PM

Quote from: OmegaZilla on Mar 19, 2010, 01:43:42 PM
Jason fought and nearly won over Freddy in FVJ. Doesn't make him a good guy.

Nearly?

He walked away with his severed head in his hand.

And then Freddy winked.

Quote from: Huol on Mar 21, 2010, 11:17:35 AM

Quote from: Nihilus on Mar 19, 2010, 11:44:54 PM

Quote from: OmegaZilla on Mar 19, 2010, 01:43:42 PM
Jason fought and nearly won over Freddy in FVJ. Doesn't make him a good guy.

Nearly?

He walked away with his severed head in his hand.

And then Freddy winked.

Talk about cheesy.

Quote from: Asian Assassin on Mar 20, 2010, 02:33:18 PM
i wouldnt mind if they joined up with that captured predator, maybe not the predator joining the humans side and killing other preds, but they wont kill each other...or atleast not there at that moment

I can see that happen, he would have the same motives as Broken Tusk from the comic.
And I like Broken Tusk but this one ain't Broken Tusk...

What worries me with the Predator from Predators is that I would like him being portraid like a bad guy, like Anytime or Pussyface.
A sadisctic killer who make trohys out of men, like how Anna described them.
You should worry about letting him lose cause it's really a bad idea for the rabbit to free a captured wolf, no matter what motives the rabbit had, it's a really really bad idea cause it's just a matter of time til the wolf comes to his senses and sets his teeth in the little rabbit.

Imagen the dude from "Hurt locker" showing up at the end of Predator, disarming the wristbomb and helping Anytime up on his feet after pushing over the log, do you think that Anytime would be thankful and like, letting him tag along while he tried to get Dutch before he got to the Chopppa...
Scar would have let him tag along, he would be like ;
- Thanks dude!!! I was really f**ked (and still is) but lets team-up so that you and not so much me may survive this shit!!!
Anytime would be like;
- You f**king a-hole, how dare you!!!
And then do something cruel and sadistic...




... like forceing him to read all my posts ten time in a row ;D

personally i think that when they free anytime 2, he wont tag along he will just run off into the jungle and occasionally whilst the humans are under attack he will try to capitalise on the situation and attack the preds when their focus is elsewhere. If you think about it if RR has incorporated the honor system for anytime 2, then he wont team up like scar did cos preds fight to the death, being captured alive is dishonorable and being free'd from said capture by one type of their prey or another is even worse, so if anytime 2 does go round with them the honor system of preds is mute and does not exist if he just goes off alone then hes got a chance to regain his honor by making trophies of the preds who humiliated him, then kill humans after they have served their purpose of distraction.

Im just glad this movie is coming out so the hell with whatever is gona be there for the taking.

Quote from: Adey on Mar 21, 2010, 03:55:56 PM
personally i think that when they free anytime 2, he wont tag along he will just run off into the jungle and occasionally whilst the humans are under attack he will try to capitalise on the situation and attack the preds when their focus is elsewhere. If you think about it if RR has incorporated the honor system for anytime 2, then he wont team up like scar did cos preds fight to the death, being captured alive is dishonorable and being free'd from said capture by one type of their prey or another is even worse, so if anytime 2 does go round with them the honor system of preds is mute and does not exist if he just goes off alone then hes got a chance to regain his honor by making trophies of the preds who humiliated him, then kill humans after they have served their purpose of distraction.

Yeah, you're right.
But that doesn't happen in the leaked script.
The thing is, or how I see it (my Opinion).
When looking at the Alien, I get facinated because it's so differrent from us, how they reproduce, their acid blood, how they act on their own and when there's a hive present, they are really alien...

But the Predator feels more human to me, so what facinates me mostly about them is their culture...
They are big game hunters who will kill themselfs if they accept that they won't return with the trophy from their targeted prey. They have advanced tech but there's something very primitive about them, it's like they got stuck in their own evolution and it's because of their life as fanatic hunters.
Hunting is everything, nothing else matters, there is only two kinds of people, the hunter and the prey.
If you ain't the first then you are the other. And the preys only purpuse in life is to qualyfy so that he, she or it may die at the hands of the hunter, the hunters only goal in life, his only reason for living is to hunt and kill the prey.

I don't know if you'll get that vibe from the Predator in "Predators" and it worries me.
There's nothing honorable about them, not if you look at the reasons behind their honor, they're f**king mental.

Quote from: Milan on Mar 21, 2010, 04:44:14 PM

Quote from: Adey on Mar 21, 2010, 03:55:56 PM
personally i think that when they free anytime 2, he wont tag along he will just run off into the jungle and occasionally whilst the humans are under attack he will try to capitalise on the situation and attack the preds when their focus is elsewhere. If you think about it if RR has incorporated the honor system for anytime 2, then he wont team up like scar did cos preds fight to the death, being captured alive is dishonorable and being free'd from said capture by one type of their prey or another is even worse, so if anytime 2 does go round with them the honor system of preds is mute and does not exist if he just goes off alone then hes got a chance to regain his honor by making trophies of the preds who humiliated him, then kill humans after they have served their purpose of distraction.

Yeah, you're right.
But that doesn't happen in the leaked script.
The thing is, or how I see it (my Opinion).
When looking at the Alien, I get facinated because it's so differrent from us, how they reproduce, their acid blood, how they act on their own and when there's a hive present, they are really alien...

But the Predator feels more human to me, so what facinates me mostly about them is their culture...
They are big game hunters who will kill themselfs if they accept that they won't return with the trophy from their targeted prey. They have advanced tech but there's something very primitive about them, it's like they got stuck in their own evolution and it's because of their life as fanatic hunters.
Hunting is everything, nothing else matters, there is only two kinds of people, the hunter and the prey.
If you ain't the first then you are the other. And the preys only purpuse in life is to qualyfy so that he, she or it may die at the hands of the hunter, the hunters only goal in life, his only reason for living is to hunt and kill the prey.

I don't know if you'll get that vibe from the Predator in "Predators" and it worries me.
There's nothing honorable about them, not if you look at the reasons behind their honor, they're f**king mental.

You both are wildly speculating. Comics and games and movies depict the Predators differently. The only thing we know for sure (based on the first two films, say) is that Predators hunt humans and that at least one clan or hunting party respects good sport.

We have to remember Predators aren't Jasons or Pumpkinheads. They're highly advanced extraterrestrials: they're not mindless monsters ... and each Predator is themselves an individual. It's totally believable that a Predator will respect Brody saving him.

true and pussyface was a little eager to blow himself up wasn't he so perhaps preds aren't honourable at all, there are just some that follow certain rules whilst on the hunt rules that can change from individual/clan to individual/clan, also the type of hunt.

Quote from: RakaiThwei on Mar 21, 2010, 06:44:13 AM

Quote from: Raptor on Mar 19, 2010, 04:50:20 PM
They have honor thats all,that doesnt make them any less cold blooded killing machines.

You actually believe the honor concept?

Glad to know I am not alone.

-Rakai'Thwei

Your noe Alone. I thought it was common knowledge that Preds are a honorable race. The end of P2 is a great example.

Quote from: Adey on Mar 21, 2010, 06:20:32 PM
true and pussyface was a little eager to blow himself up wasn't he so perhaps preds aren't honourable at all, there are just some that follow certain rules whilst on the hunt rules that can change from individual/clan to individual/clan, also the type of hunt.

Well, try too see things from his point of view, I'll give it a shot...

The Predator returns to his "safe house" for a little snack, once he's there he hears a noise that alarms him...
He toggles his vision modes and to his surprise he sees people there, they are searching the place, searching for him, they have been tracking him. Stalking him, just like he stalks his...prey.
He realises that hunter has become the hunted...he was the prey.
This is where he starts dieing, on the inside.

He have to turn the situation around, quickly, he must regain the role off the hunter again, the situation alone is serious, it's a matter of life or death...

He circles around them, no time to take them on one by one, not while they still are tracking him.
He jumps right in the middle of the group, taking them on all at once, fighting to take his role back.
After a few seconds he stands victorious, he is just about to relax, let the whole thing sink in...
Suddenly Harrigan, the prey he was stalking jumps in guns blazing.
Oh my god...he was being followed by his prey, he's still hunted...Again the right of life was stolen from him, again he's the prey...but he's a hunter...how can this be? WHY!!!

After a brief fight he's knocked unconscious by blasts from Harrigans shotgun, as he wakes up he realises that Harrigan have taken off his mask...it's insulting, that's something he is suppose to do, just before he claims his selected trophy, the grand prize, the ticket that will allow him to live through one more hunt. Cause he's smarter, stronger, superior on all accounts... he is Yautja, he is the hunter.
And this Harrigan...this prey, is...is humiliating him...
He is going to make him pay for that...he's going to make him suffer, Harrigan makes a run for the roof, last chance to take back the role, last chance to fix this mess, this sentence of doom, forget the gear, Harrigan must not get away.
He rushes after him, at the roof top he throws his spear at him but he might have missed...
this is all going to hell...did he miss?
Have the situation gone too far, beyond repair? What would the elder do? he thinks...
And before he can figure anything out he gets tackled and falls, he manage to grab Harrigan by his arm,
but this is to much...there is no repair...he lost not only the role of the hunter, but his equipment too, how will the elder and his clan mates judge him...he must fix it, he activates his wristbomb...he must fix it,
all off it, Harrigan, the gear left behind...ALL.
Then Harrigan cuts his arm, cuts it off with his own weapon, a hunters weapon and disarming the bomb.
He falls and manages to get some control, he crashes through the wall...
a brief moment of peace, a moment of time to think about what to do next...he's in no condition to fight, he must take care off himself, just enough so that he may return to the ship...
There are gear left behind, he lost his wristbomb but if he reaches the ship and informs the others there may still be a way to set things right, to take back what was lost.
His life doesn't matter...getting to the ship alive does, once he's there then his life is at the hands of the elder...

This is more or less how I take what is going on...

Too many things went wrong in the slaughter house for this young overconfident hunter.
It destroyed him, he saw himself as the prey.
The fight wasn't over but in his mind it was, he gave up and activated his wristbomb.

Thank you for showing exactly what Pussyface was, a young, inexperienced hunter.

Well. The hunter in p2 killed all the humans you depict as who have become the new hunters. They were definitely, but just for those minutes the hunter saw through their trap. Than they were dead.
And he could have collected the gear he left behind before chasing Harrigan, if that'd be the matter. No the matter was to get the beloved prey, the dangerous human he was looking for. What you epict as a humiliating process, I see as a fight. I think you mix the over confidence the hunter had in the end with his normal combat behaviour. And I think preds are really sure they can become the prey, since they are looking for creatures that are able to change the hunter-hunted condition. They wouldn' t think imo omg, I'm hunted, what'll happen now. Anyway, I know it's just how you see it, I just said my opinion. I think he saw he didn't measured his chances right, and he was sure he'll die. With the end of what you've written I partially agree.

QuoteThank you for showing exactly what Pussyface was, a young, inexperienced hunter.

He wasn't too experienced imo.

Quote from: 08yeyinde on Mar 22, 2010, 10:24:32 AM
Well. The hunter in p2 killed all the humans you depict as who have become the new hunters. They were definitely, but just for those minutes the hunter saw through their trap. Than they were dead.

Well, Pussyface and his race aren't ordinary big game hunters, you must remember that they kill themselves if they accept that they don't own the role of the hunter, they are fanatic when it comes to hunting.

And the thing is with fanatics is that they have lost their sense of logic.
Some of them believe in a god who can within the blink off an eye eliminate the whole world with a big wave if he felt like it, still they think that the same god is in great NEED of their HELP with blowing up 4 dudes in a Coffey shop.

How can I explain this in a proper way?...

It's like a fanatic Muslim finding out that he'll been served pig for the last week and he enjoyed each meal until he found out what it was. And to ad insult to injury the non Muslim chief who served him the pig claims that he ain't no real Muslim the way he loved it, he even heard him when he ask for more, and saw him when he licked the plates clean...
For any Muslim this is a really ugly situation, it's not against their rules if the one eating didn't know about it, but it doesn't change the fact that they will feel very disgusted and guilty, they might even have liked the taste of the meat from something they reffer as a dirty animal but for one that is a fanatic, well, it's pure dread man, pure dread. It's a nightmare.
It doesn't matter how long it took him to finish the meal, the damage have already been done when he enjoyed the first bite.

Oh, just to clarify, all Muslims aren't fanatics, very, very few are.
Saying that all Muslims are fanatics is very stupid, it's like saying that all Christians were Crusaders.

QuoteAnd he could have collected the gear he left behind before chasing Harrigan, if that'd be the matter. No the matter was to get the beloved prey, the dangerous human he was looking for.

Well, you have to take in the situation the predator was in, the gear didn't matter cause picking up the gear could have given Harrigan the chance to get away. And if Harrigan got away then the Predator would be in a situation, were he as prey, have been followed, attacked, shot unconscious, examined and attacked again in a maneuver who would let the hunter( Harrigan) retreat and restart his attempt in tracking, locating and kill the prey(Pussyace).
It would left the Predator in the role of the prey, and it's bad, very bad.
No, Pussyface must be in the role of the hunter when stalking and killing his prey.
And many things went wrong in the slaughter house so he was in a rush, he didn't think.
He went after the only thing that would make things right, he went after Harrigan. Killing Harrigan would give him the status of a hunter back, cause at that moment he was struggling to regain it.

At that moment he was the rageing humiliated fanatic trying to kill the chief for tricking him into eating pig...

QuoteWhat you epict as a humiliating process, I see as a fight. I think you mix the over confidence the hunter had in the end with his normal combat behaviour. And I think preds are really sure they can become the prey, since they are looking for creatures that are able to change the hunter-hunted condition.

Sure, they think that they can become the prey...that's why they have their wristbomb.
And the creatures they look for ain't ones who are able to change the hunter-hunted condition, only one is known for being able to do that, it's the Xenomorph, the Alien.
That's why they call it the ULTIMATE prey. What they are looking for is prey able and willing to put up a fight, or more simply, who are able too defend themselves.
With Anytime we learned that the Hunter would try to kill himself if he was conscious enough too admit defeat.
With Pussyface we learned that the Hunter would try to kill himself if he admitted that the tables have been turned during a hunt. He wasn't as beaten up as anytime, not even near, but still he activated his wristbomb. Falling from the roof would not kill him, if he would let go on Harrigans arm he would be able too retreat and start over from the current situation. Him hanging there wasn't the motive behind him activating the wristbomb, it was all the stuff that happened from the time he entered the slaughterhouse, his safehouse, til Harrigan jumped him from behind on the roof top.
Finding "Pussyface"s motive for activating the wristbomb is alittlebit trickier than "Anytimes".

QuoteThey wouldn' t think imo omg, I'm hunted, what'll happen now.

They need to think like this to be able to survive the situations they put themselves in, for them to be able to go on one more hunt. They are after the thrill of the hunt...
Being scared doesn't make one a pussy or a coward, it how you react to that emotion, it's your actions that define you. I think they get scared all off the time, and I think they love it, it's like the ultimate reward that can come from a hunt. That's why they do it the way they do it.
Being overconfident ain't that same thing as one having big hairy balls, each at the size of Tito Ortiz's head. Being overconfident is trying to make yourself and your opponent believe that you have it.

QuoteAnd the thing is with fanatics is that they have lost their sense of logic.

First disagreement, I don't see them as fanatics. They  have strict standards, not necessarily rules (yeah, laws too im), but somekind of self respect and self proving. That's not fanatism. This is the purpose of their life as I see. Again, not fanatism.

QuoteHow can I explain this in a proper way?...

According to my upper opinion it's not needed. I see your point, but I still don't agree. What makes them fanatics in those movies.

QuoteWell, you have to take in the situation the predator was in, the gear didn't matter cause picking up the gear could have given Harrigan the chance to get away. And if Harrigan got away then the Predator would be in a situation, were he as prey, have been followed, attacked, shot unconscious, examined and attacked again in a maneuver who would let the hunter( Harrigan) retreat and restart his attempt in tracking, locating and kill the prey(Pussyace).
It would left the Predator in the role of the prey, and it's bad, very bad.
No, Pussyface must be in the role of the hunter when stalking and killing his prey.
And many things went wrong in the slaughter house so he was in a rush, he didn't think.
He went after the only thing that would make things right, he went after Harrigan. Killing Harrigan would give him the status of a hunter back, cause at that moment he was struggling to regain it.

At that moment he was the rageing humiliated fanatic trying to kill the chief for tricking him into eating pig...

Not fanatism again. Purpose of life and clouded sense of reason are two different things (here I must add, I don't doubt there are fanatics in their rows, it's a characteristic whic they may have). You see the whole hunter-hunted as some concrete, carved in stone thing, which doesn't change in every minute! Harrigen gave up his role as a hunter when he tried to escape. The pursuing pred was the hunter again (and this whole changed in the movie in many, many cases). And he knew it. The escape of Harrigen wouldn't mean anything, he could've found him just like he did before. Again, he was the hunter then, and he thought Harrigan won't change it. He was wrong. And I pointed that out just because you mentioned it as something really important. Since the pred though he'll win, I don't think it was important for him.

QuoteFalling from the roof would not kill him

Very important thing, and I disagree. I think he would've died if he'd fallen from there. He was in a desperate situation. I agree, wrist bomb is activated when they realise they have been defeated, and there's no way to change the situation. But during the whole hunt those situations can be changed. Anytime. Everything is a potential prey. I think preds, who live to hunt know this, so they won't be surprised, won't fear just because something they knew would happen really came true.

And another thing to this one:

QuoteFinding "Pussyface"s motive for activating the wristbomb is alittlebit trickier than "Anytimes".

Logically I have to disagree, according to my upper sentences.

Quote
Sure, they think that they can become the prey...that's why they have their wristbomb.

As I said, in my opinion the wrist bomb is for situations where hunter-hunted roles cannot be changed. Again, those two things change. Constantly. For this reason it's pointless to use any weapons. Those are to ensure, one will remain the hunter. The wrist bomb is a last resort for the hunter. (Imo: because he wants to destroy the technology he has, and he ultimately admits death, and that he has lost the fight. Destroying the opponent is not the purpose imo).

QuoteAnd the creatures they look for ain't ones who are able to change the hunter-hunted condition, only one is known for being able to do that, it's the Xenomorph, the Alien.

Wrong. Endings of the original movies. Again, please.
Also I think hunting for those who can change that position is the one thing that makes them different from big game hunters, simple killers. This way you contradict with your first statement in my opinion (with which (

Quotearen't ordinary big game hunters

) I agree). If you think they are just in for an easy kill when they are not for xenos, that statement is false.
And xenos are definitely not the ultimate prey. Avp lines say that, but I think for a species that dedicates its life for hunting and looking for challenge, there's nothing like 'ultimate prey'.

QuoteThey need to think like this to be able to survive the situations they put themselves in, for them to be able to go on one more hunt. They are after the thrill of the hunt...

Sometimes they are surprised. But I can only repeat myself, about something obvious like the changing of the side of the hunter or hunted I don't think they would be surprised about.

QuoteBeing scared doesn't make one a pussy or a coward, it how you react to that emotion, it's your actions that define you. I think they get scared all off the time, and I think they love it, it's like the ultimate reward that can come from a hunt. That's why they do it the way they do it.

I can't agree more. But this case I still don't think, it would be the case. I'm not saying preds never get scared, of course they do. But not in situations like this, since it wasn't even sudden. And again, imo it's obvious for them.

QuoteBeing overconfident ain't that same thing as one having big hairy balls, each at the size of Tito Ortiz's head. Being overconfident is trying to make yourself and your opponent believe that you have it.

Still serves the same purpose. And a very good hunter can't afford it if it wants to live. Like this neither preds in the movies were good in the end. but just in the end, not during the whole. When they forgot about how changeable the situation they are in is, in that very moment they are defeated.

Okay, so this is a huge wall of script, sorry for that. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with your idea, it fascinates me :) I just wanted to explain what I thought. That's all.

Quote from: 08yeyinde on Mar 22, 2010, 11:43:35 PM

QuoteAnd the thing is with fanatics is that they have lost their sense of logic.

First disagreement, I don't see them as fanatics. They  have strict standards, not necessarily rules (yeah, laws too im), but somekind of self respect and self proving. That's not fanatism. This is the purpose of their life as I see. Again, not fanatism.

Well, this is a big game hunter who commit sueside if he can bring back the trophy from his selected target.
So in other words, hunting is a big deal for them, it's a matter of life or death on more than one level.
Collecting that trophy is a way for them to continue their life, one failed hunt and they end it.
I must say that they do have a fanatic approach towards big game hunting.
But on the other hand, when ppl's stocks started falling not so long ago then some of them committed sueside, I wouldn't call these ppl fanatics but I would dare to say that they identified themselves with it,
and when they lost value of their stocks, it was like they lost their reason to live.

Quote

QuoteHow can I explain this in a proper way
According to my upper opinion it's not needed. I see your point, but I still don't agree. What makes them fanatics in those movies.?

The motives behind activating their wristbombs...
If they hunted for just for sport, then they wouldn't commit sueside if they felt like that they had a bad hunt, that things didn't go their way or that they were losing.

They seem to have rules, a twisted code of honor, the elder giving Harrigan a gift after he killed Pussyface,
that gift was Harrigans trophy...a gift from the elder that let him see the next day...it's was a gift of "life".
Until the next time they go to earth, then he's game, a highly valued prey for them to hunt down.

Quote

QuoteWell, you have to take in the situation the predator was in, the gear didn't matter cause picking up the gear could have given Harrigan the chance to get away. And if Harrigan got away then the Predator would be in a situation, were he as prey, have been followed, attacked, shot unconscious, examined and attacked again in a maneuver who would let the hunter( Harrigan) retreat and restart his attempt in tracking, locating and kill the prey(Pussyace).
It would left the Predator in the role of the prey, and it's bad, very bad.
No, Pussyface must be in the role of the hunter when stalking and killing his prey.
And many things went wrong in the slaughter house so he was in a rush, he didn't think.
He went after the only thing that would make things right, he went after Harrigan. Killing Harrigan would give him the status of a hunter back, cause at that moment he was struggling to regain it.

At that moment he was the rageing humiliated fanatic trying to kill the chief for tricking him into eating pig...

Not fanatism again. Purpose of life and clouded sense of reason are two different things (here I must add, I don't doubt there are fanatics in their rows, it's a characteristic whic they may have). You see the whole hunter-hunted as some concrete, carved in stone thing, which doesn't change in every minute!

That's the thing about fanatism, it is a carved in stone thing, it's not suppose to change...
That's why I think of them as fanatics cause they are ready to die and take you with em, if they lose the role of the hunter to the prey.

QuoteHarrigen gave up his role as a hunter when he tried to escape. The pursuing pred was the hunter again (and this whole changed in the movie in many, many cases). And he knew it. The escape of Harrigen wouldn't mean anything, he could've found him just like he did before. Again, he was the hunter then, and he thought Harrigan won't change it. He was wrong. And I pointed that out just because you mentioned it as something really important. Since the pred though he'll win, I don't think it was important for him.

Harrigan did the same thing the Predator is known to do, the Hunter uses "Hit and Run" tactics.
And Harrigan attacked Pussyface on the roof top and before that he sought the Predator out, the Predator didn't know how he found him, only that he was being hunted and found...
The Predator could only change this by killing Harrigan before he escaped, that fight have to end with Harrigan dying in order for the Predator to assume the Hunter role, not Harrigan escaping.

Quote

QuoteFalling from the roof would not kill him

Very important thing, and I disagree. I think he would've died if he'd fallen from there. He was in a desperate situation. I agree, wrist bomb is activated when they realise they have been defeated, and there's no way to change the situation.

Well, I think that if anytime would have wanted to he could jump down from that roof top to the ground to kill a target standing there. Or he could have bounced from the wall.
If he landed on his head that might have killed him, but I don't see that happening. they seem to be pretty good jumpers...
And why active the wristbomb just because he's hanging from a roof top?
Why not put your clawed feet into the wall for support and pull yourself up?
Kill Harrigan and call it the day...it's easy.
He must have know that you can pull yourself up when hanging from a ledge, fall and die ain't the only option.

Quote

Quote
Sure, they think that they can become the prey...that's why they have their wristbomb.

As I said, in my opinion the wrist bomb is for situations where hunter-hunted roles cannot be changed. Again, those two things change. Constantly.

It doesn't make sense, "Anytime" was dying, so that's picture perfect. There was no going back.
"Pussyface" was hanging from a roof top, all he had to do was to pull him self up.
But he activated his wristbomb instead...
Why activate the wristbomb if the roles change, constantly, and it's ok?

Quote

QuoteAnd the creatures they look for ain't ones who are able to change the hunter-hunted condition, only one is known for being able to do that, it's the Xenomorph, the Alien.

Wrong. Endings of the original movies. Again, please.
Also I think hunting for those who can change that position is the one thing that makes them different from big game hunters, simple killers. This way you contradict with your first statement in my opinion (with which (

Quotearen't ordinary big game hunters

) I agree). If you think they are just in for an easy kill when they are not for xenos, that statement is false.
And xenos are definitely not the ultimate prey. Avp lines say that, but I think for a species that dedicates its life for hunting and looking for challenge, there's nothing like 'ultimate prey'.

Big game is prey who can hurt or kill the hunter, a duck ain't big game, but a lion or a bear is.
The hunter puts himself in danger while hunting big game.
Predators are big game hunters, for one to qualify as big game you have to be able to hurt it or kill it.
Xenos are the ultimate prey because they are extremely difficult and dangerous to hunt, as hunters they are equal if not better, but the Predators would never give the title "Hunter" to any other species but theirs, that's why they are viewed as the ultimate prey, it's the highest level of respect given to another species.

And to clarify things...

The Alien skull in Predator 2 didn't make path for the AvP comics, they were released before the movie.

The guy playing Pussyface was explaining that Pussyface was a douche, he even refereed him as a "Bad blood", you'll have to read the comics to understand what a bad blood, unblooded, young blood and blooded Predator is, cause they don't talk about it in the movies.
Like some movies have zombies in them but we won't hear the characters call them zombies...
...but they're still zombies.

A bad blood is a Predator who breaks the code...
All predators live by the code.
A bad blood is viewed as game for other Predators.
Breaking the code is always punishable by death.
Killing while cloaked is against the code and punishable by death if the Predator gets caught doing it.

QuoteOkay, so this is a huge wall of script, sorry for that. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with your idea, it fascinates me :) I just wanted to explain what I thought. That's all.

No, problems. I don't mind it.
I actually like it...only wish that my English was better, so that I could explain stuff better.

QuoteKilling while cloaked is against the code and punishable by death if the Predator gets caught doing it.

That's pretty stupid. Anytime did that numerous times, as did Pussyface.

Quote from: Sylizar on Mar 23, 2010, 02:59:08 AM

QuoteKilling while cloaked is against the code and punishable by death if the Predator gets caught doing it.

That's pretty stupid. Anytime did that numerous times, as did Pussyface.

Yes they did, In P2, pussyface killed all but one jamaican cloaked in the columian apartment.  And Anytime took out everyone from arnie's team cloaked too as i recall

Quote from: Sylizar on Mar 23, 2010, 02:59:08 AM

QuoteKilling while cloaked is against the code and punishable by death if the Predator gets caught doing it.

That's pretty stupid. Anytime did that numerous times, as did Pussyface.

Well, they are allowed to kill while being cloaked while their presence is known, or if someone is in their way while they are going in for the kill of their selected target.
Like the train scene, everyone with a gun standing between "lone ranger" and "Pussyface" can be killed while being cloaked.

It's all in the code.
And most the code is based of Anytimes actions in the movie.

Here it is...

Rule 5. Never kill while cloaked.
It is very dishonorable for a Hunter to kill
prey while he is cloaked. It ignores all laws of
fair and honorable hunting, and giving
the prey a fighting chance. A Predator
who is discovered doing this is usually
banished from the Clan, and is
considered fair game for other Hunters.
The only exception with this is to
"remove" anything standing between the
Hunter and his prey, or if a creature
attacks the Hunter that he is not
Hunting.

QuoteYes they did, In P2, pussyface killed all but one jamaican cloaked in the columian apartment.  And Anytime took out everyone from arnie's team cloaked too as i recall

Pussyface could do that without it being seen as a crime, he can claim that the last one was the targeted prey. The other ones where just ppl in his way, and some of them was even trying to hurt him.
Anytime made his presence known to Dutch and his team, so it would be a "fair" and "honorable" fight,
And he picked them off one by one, he too can fall back on the exception to that rule...
maybe that's why they go after a group of prey, easier to hunt that way, lesser risk of breaking the code.

There's no code ffs.... Did you ever see any mention of a 'code' in the movies? NO so stop talking about it because it doesn't exist in the movie universe

Quote from: Doomofman on Mar 23, 2010, 03:41:34 AM
There's no code ffs.... Did you ever see any mention of a 'code' in the movies? NO so stop talking about it because it doesn't exist in the movie universe

Who of all the characters would or could mention it in the movies?

And if the actor who played Pussy-face use the word "Bad-blood" when he is describing what kind of Predator he is playing, then I see the code as very present in the movie universe.
You can't be a bad-blood without breaking the code, so there has to be a code to break if one would play a bad-blood.
No code          =  No bad-blood
No bad-blood   =  No Pussyface
No Pussyface   =  No Predator 2


I see BSP and his team as bad-bloods...
They seem to fit the description pretty well...

But the actor that played Pussyface didn't say Bad Blood.... Seriously... There's no god damn code outside of the comics and maybe the games... THEY DONT APPLY TO THE MOVIE UNIVERSE... How many times does it have to be said... The bad blood thing? Yeah that's from the bloody comics as well... How hard is it for people to understand that the only thing that applies to the movies are the 2 movies? And in this case JUST THE FIRST MOVIE as RR has been very vocal about this being a follow up to P1...

If you want to talk honor code nonsense go to the general Predator forum as it has nothing to with Predators the movie...

There's nothing in the comics that state, or show, that Pred has to decloak to kill.

And the only reason it's in the video games is to take some of the advantage of being cloaked away.

Otherwise, people would stay cloaked and use the plasma caster the whole game.

This whole "code" crap he's talking about is just that...crap and non-canon.

That's some made up fanboy bs found around the net.

the reason they commit suicide with a bomb is so that human scientists dont use them in experiments and dont reverse engineer their tech, its nothing to do with honor and also when pussyface killed the jamaicans he didn't let them know he was there cos he killed the first one from the rafters whilst cloaked the guy didn't even see him, and when he killed scorpio's guys he jumped through the skylight still cloaked and when he killed hawkins he was cloaked and never showed himself physically or even just his presence, he took hawkins out with no warning at all, the only thing about why they hunt thats mentioned in the films, is the sport concept like dutch and keys said he's on safari, the lions, the tigers, the bears, oh my! "keys" Tropies thats the game isnt it keys?"harrigan" your the lion and this is his jungle."keys" please dont bring comic crap into these discussions, cos most people think they're rubbish.oh and yautja is comic also, and xenopredators is game, we are talking movies here so quote movies.

Quote from: Adey on Mar 23, 2010, 05:38:18 AM
the reason they commit suicide with a bomb is so that human scientists dont use them in experiments and dont reverse engineer their tech

Actually its because they're really a bunch of intergalactic assholes. The only time i've ever wanted to hear the thoughts of a Pred is right after Pussyface failed to commit suicide. "Damn, that dude just owned me... How am I ever gonna explain this to the guys!"

To be serious I agree with you. Going strictly by what is in the movies they are not honorable. They just have some basic guidelines. No Preggers chicks, no unarmed folks, no kids. Everybody else is fair game. Basically they want able-bodied men with some kind of a weapon...Thats it. They couldnt give two predo-farts about honor, or respect. They're hunting us.  Just like hunters. They want to shoot the bucks.

The only instances where anything even close to an honor-based society is hinted at, and its easily explained the other way... The end of Predator Man-to-Man. and the Elder at the end of Predator 2. Both of these instances came simply be linked back to being sporting. Dutch put up a good fight, and Anytime wanted to savour the kill. Hunters have similar mentalities, savouring the moment. Harrigan and the Elder... Well hey, PF failed. Elder has to hand it to Harrigan for that. Its just being a fair sport. It wasnt the Elder's hunt, it wasnt any of the other Predator's hunt.

QuoteI wouldn't call these ppl fanatics

I wanted to express this

Quoteidentified themselves with it,
and when they lost value of their stocks, it was like they lost their reason to live.

Yes. It's their life imo, so obviously they think as themselves as part of the hunt; especially a hunter.When they can't change it and proven to be weak, they kill themselves.

QuoteThey seem to have rules, a twisted code of honor

I think they have rules, and it's important in their lifes. Though what more important is the way they think, a diferent way to us, humans. For them it's obvious not to kill some weakling and it's obvious not to kill a warrior that has defeated one of our kind and is seriously wounded. I see preds practical creatures. They have rules, and they obey them-as a pack. But an individual, no matter the rules bound him, he won't brake them because those rules exist, but because his standards meet the rule.
Honor- well, I'm not keen on with that. Calling preds honorable makes them look a bit like human. They do their things like that because they think it's okay. It's a normal activity, not honor.
I think they dont hunt for honor, and not for sport also btw.

Quote
Harrigan did the same thing the Predator is known to do, the Hunter uses "Hit and Run" tactics.
And Harrigan attacked Pussyface on the roof top and before that he sought the Predator out, the Predator didn't know how he found him, only that he was being hunted and found...
The Predator could only change this by killing Harrigan before he escaped, that fight have to end with Harrigan dying in order for the Predator to assume the Hunter role, not Harrigan escaping.

We dont agree here. Harrigan was screaming and he tried to escape. It wasn't hit and run. But my point wasn't that one scene, but the concept behind the whole: hunter and hunted can be changed during a hunt. Anytime.

QuoteWell, I think that if anytime would have wanted to he could jump down from that roof top to the ground to kill a target standing there. Or he could have bounced from the wall.

We have the same 'technical' disagreement here. If what you say is true, your points are valid, and I'm not right. But still, I think that was too high for him. Preds are good jumpers, strong and graceful indeed (oh, p1 :D), but that was too much to deal with imo.

Quote
It doesn't make sense, "Anytime" was dying, so that's picture perfect. There was no going back.
"Pussyface" was hanging from a roof top, all he had to do was to pull him self up.
But he activated his wristbomb instead...
Why activate the wristbomb if the roles change, constantly, and it's ok?

That's what I was saying. They activate it when it cannot be changed. When they are defeated and dying. In that moment it cannot be changed anymore, so they kill themselves. But during the whole hunt it can be changed. And I saw the hunter in p2 desperate. I don't think he could have pulled up himself (with one hand he was grabbing Harrigans arm), but more importantly, what the matter is what the hunter thought. As I think he was desperate, and though he'll die there. Hence the activation.

Quote
Big game is prey who can hurt or kill the hunter, a duck ain't big game, but a lion or a bear is.

So they can change their situation.

QuoteXenos are the ultimate prey because they are extremely difficult and dangerous to hunt, as hunters they are equal if not better, but the Predators would never give the title "Hunter" to any other species but theirs

Yes, I think they wouldn't call other species hunters, since they don't live for the hunt. But it's a title. While during the hunt hunter and hunted are roles. And they can be changed.

QuoteAnd to clarify things...

The Alien skull in Predator 2 didn't make path for the AvP comics, they were released before the movie.

The guy playing Pussyface was explaining that Pussyface was a douche, he even refereed him as a "Bad blood", you'll have to read the comics to understand what a bad blood, unblooded, young blood and blooded Predator is, cause they don't talk about it in the movies.
Like some movies have zombies in them but we won't hear the characters call them zombies...
...but they're still zombies.

A bad blood is a Predator who breaks the code...
All predators live by the code.
A bad blood is viewed as game for other Predators.
Breaking the code is always punishable by death.
Killing while cloaked is against the code and punishable by death if the Predator gets caught doing it.

Yes, I know the books and comics very well :) According to the other ending of the movie, when the elder kills the defeated  hunter, the bad blood expression seems valid. Or: the defeated hunter, that couldn't destruct himself deserves death. Still, I think the bad blood idea is logical (assuming there are criminals in their society). But calling the hunter in p2 a bad blood is a bit strong to me. Yes, he was over confident, and kinda douchebag, but bad blood? Don't think so. And bad bloods are not game for the other preds. They are dangerous elements, which has to be destroyed. At least that's what I get from 'Bad blood'.
It's not the place and time (and topic) to debate the blooding ritual, so just one thing. I think every community exists as a cult community as well (I hope I expressed myself correctly ???), so everyone who becomes a new member needs an initiating ceremony. So I agree with the blooding, but not exactly how it's shown in the comics.

Quote from: Danger Close on Mar 21, 2010, 06:24:10 PM

Quote from: RakaiThwei on Mar 21, 2010, 06:44:13 AM

Quote from: Raptor on Mar 19, 2010, 04:50:20 PM
They have honor thats all,that doesnt make them any less cold blooded killing machines.

You actually believe the honor concept?

Glad to know I am not alone.

-Rakai'Thwei

Your noe Alone. I thought it was common knowledge that Preds are a honorable race. The end of P2 is a great example.

Yea but predator 2 was horrible, the much better version of the predator movies(the first one) had a much cooler ending. Showing how much they really dont give a shit about honor and would rather be a jackass for fun by nuking themselves after there pethetic foe killed them.

The predator taking off his gear in the first one to fight arnold in a close to fair fight didnt look honorable, to me the predator just looked to wanna have him some fun!

How so? In P2 there was nothing honorable.

QuoteKilling while cloaked is against the code and punishable by death if the Predator gets caught doing it.

P1 and P2 Predators did it a lot.

if a bad blood is fair game to other preds then why didnt the others kill pussyface when he returned to the ship? and kev p hall didnt refer to pussyface as a bad blood he said hes a bad boy. and then he joked hes been a real naughty boy this time round i have the special edition and checked to make sure cos when he says it you see a shot of him in the slaughter house in costume wearing a cap backwards whilst hes getting ready for a scene. You also said yourself they dont mention bad blood concept in the movies only comics which are seperate so keep the seperate.

Quote from: Adey on Mar 23, 2010, 08:44:35 PM
if a bad blood is fair game to other preds then why didnt the others kill pussyface when he returned to the ship? and kev p hall didnt refer to pussyface as a bad blood he said hes a bad boy. and then he joked hes been a real naughty boy this time round i have the special edition and checked to make sure cos when he says it you see a shot of him in the slaughter house in costume wearing a cap backwards whilst hes getting ready for a scene. You also said yourself they dont mention bad blood concept in the movies only comics which are seperate so keep the seperate.

Okay, maybe you're right I don't remember the source, only remember being surprised that he used a term, that sounded like "bad blood" however I think that people "missunderstand" the whole code and honor thing with a the Predator...
And about the others not killing Pussyface for being a Bad-Blood:
A Predator have to be caught breaking the code to be labled as a Bad-Blood.
I don't think Pussyface got caught.

The thing is when you read the code it pretty much let the Predator do and act whatever way he wants,
the "not kill while cloaked" rule has an exception to it that would let the Predator kill whoever he wanted while being cloaked, that's why I think they prefer to go after a group of ppl cause they don't have to confirm who's the main target within that group before starting hunting them.
The Predator only have to show himself to the last man standing, the others can be killed while being cloaked.
If a predator gets beaten or admits defeat then the sueside rule jumps in, but even that rule has an exception, if the Predator accept his opponent as an equal then he doesn't have to commit sueside.

But the reason why I made this topic is that I'm worried about how they will portray the old school predator, cause I think that the new ones will take over future Predator movies, I got a feeling that "Predators" it's a farwell party to the old ones like Anytime and Pussyface and a welcome party for the new ones like Black Super Predator.
At this moment I'm neutral, I'll try not to judge before I've seen the movie.
But still I'm worried that the "old school predator" will have more in common with Scar than Anytime,
I hope I'm wrong but it looks that way from reading the leaked script.
But then again, maybe they have changed it...

Quotethe reason they commit suicide with a bomb is so that human scientists dont use them in experiments and dont reverse engineer their tech, its nothing to do with honor

thats possible...but lets look at it this way. both times in predator 1 and 2 the predators activate theyre wrist bombs when the person (dutch, harrigan) that is trying to kill them is well within the bombs range.

I see it like this, predators are naive hunters who's dont care about anything other than being a great hunter and earning respect among each other, and when they are defeated by lesser being (humans) they may feel humiliated and in a sore-loser aspect try to kill themselves and the would be killer before he can finish the job.

sorta like pulling the pin of a grenade when you are surrounded by enemies as so they cant get to you first.

Quote from: Ijapa on Mar 21, 2010, 05:32:28 PM
You both are wildly speculating. Comics and games and movies depict the Predators differently. The only thing we know for sure (based on the first two films, say) is that Predators hunt humans and that at least one clan or hunting party respects good sport.

We have to remember Predators aren't Jasons or Pumpkinheads. They're highly advanced extraterrestrials: they're not mindless monsters ... and each Predator is themselves an individual. It's totally believable that a Predator will respect Brody saving him.

ya theres probably dishonorable predators in mostly honorable tribes and honorable predators in mostly dishonorable tribes if the whole honor thing applies at all, i mean honor is pretty relative, i guess predators are more honorable than human duck or fox hunters but they still go around surprise killing less advanced species

 I see the whole thing similar to Openmaw. Think about what human hunters do: they sit in trees with piss on themselves and blow deers' hearts out through their chests from 500 yards with bullets specifically designed for maximum killing power.

Then they come back and show their buddies the thing's ten point rack and everybody "oohs" and "ahhhs."

Then there are some hunters who'll use a compound bow because guns are too easy.

Either way, Predators (the clan or clans we've seen anyway) are depicted as hunters and not as ancient samurai who issue challenges and meet at such and such place at such and such time and have a duel. That's not a hunter-prey dynamic.

Sure, the Elder gave Harrigan the pistol, but that's not honor, that's the equivalent of a human hunter shooting an albino lion and missing and then saying, "Hell, you're somethin' special, maybe you deserve to be free and regal and beautiful and, uh, alive."

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Favp.ugo.com%2Fimages%2Ftop-fights%2Fpredator-vs-mike-harrigan.jpg&hash=2205bc04e4dcd52a012da1e52a8c2f99cd222303)
Free, regal, beautiful, alive

By inserting a make-believe code you're making them more Scar-like than Anytime like. Predators, insofar as we've seen, appear to relish inducing panic and inflicting pain. Predators are big pussy-faced crybaby sore loser assholes.

And I love it because it makes them great villains. So would a wounded, defeated, bruisy-ego'd Predator accept help to get revenge? Hell yeah it would, just like it's so resentful of losing a fight it'd blow itself up. All that said, some Predators are probably actually out-and-out nice Predguys. They're a galactic-faring species, someone has got to be a philosopher or some shit.

Quote from: Sso02V on Mar 19, 2010, 03:03:25 PM

Quote from: Milan on Mar 19, 2010, 12:40:27 PM
Anyway, In the sneak peak/trailer we get to see a glimpse of an old school predator hanging in a three, being captured by the new ones.

This what you're talking about?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg717.imageshack.us%2Fimg717%2F3038%2Fpredmounted.jpg&hash=ffda92780ad5ed5ac6f8fc33729c0cc059f1bf8c)

we also see it in the trailer running from fire in full Armour and mask.weather he gets free and finds hias mask or it was showing how he got captured i don't know. wonder if he will were the mesh body suit.

Quote from: Ijapa on Mar 24, 2010, 04:19:46 AM
I see the whole thing similar to Openmaw. Think about what human hunters do: they sit in trees with piss on themselves and blow deers' hearts out through their chests from 500 yards with bullets specifically designed for maximum killing power.

Then they come back and show their buddies the thing's ten point rack and everybody "oohs" and "ahhhs."

Then there are some hunters who'll use a compound bow because guns are too easy.

Either way, Predators (the clan or clans we've seen anyway) are depicted as hunters and not as ancient samurai who issue challenges and meet at such and such place at such and such time and have a duel. That's not a hunter-prey dynamic.

Sure, the Elder gave Harrigan the pistol, but that's not honor, that's the equivalent of a human hunter shooting an albino lion and missing and then saying, "Hell, you're somethin' special, maybe you deserve to be free and regal and beautiful and, uh, alive."

http://avp.ugo.com/images/top-fights/predator-vs-mike-harrigan.jpg
Free, regal, beautiful, alive

By inserting a make-believe code you're making them more Scar-like than Anytime like. Predators, insofar as we've seen, appear to relish inducing panic and inflicting pain. Predators are big pussy-faced crybaby sore loser assholes.

And I love it because it makes them great villains. So would a wounded, defeated, bruisy-ego'd Predator accept help to get revenge? Hell yeah it would, just like it's so resentful of losing a fight it'd blow itself up. All that said, some Predators are probably actually out-and-out nice Predguys. They're a galactic-faring species, someone has got to be a philosopher or some shit.

I think the hinor thing is not quite true. It's a humanization that makes preds look the good guys. The whole thing makes preds less imo. There are things that can be seen as honor from human perspective, but I doubt it is honour for them.
But they are not like human hunters, that's for sure. Even the first movie shows, that predators are different them 'shoot the motherf*cker, than show how great I am'. And according to the first movie (at least in my books) the last scene is a duel. But it has to do nothing with samurai. But I don't see why it'd break the hunter-prey dinamyc.
Predators are not the good guys. But I don't see them crybaby sore losers too. Perhaps because they are no villain for me.

I prefer my Predators to be brutal bloodthirtsy bad-ass hunters. This is what I liked about RR's Predators after reading the script, non of that honourable Predator BS, these new Predators enjoy killing and they enjoy terrifying the shit out of their prey before killing them!! RR's Predators dont give gifts to the best Prey! Any human that kills one of their own, becomes 10x more valuable as a trophy to them!!  I hated the scene in P2 when the Elder gives Harrigan a gun. Yes, he may have been impressed that Harrigan defeated one of his own kind but instead of giving him a gift he should have gave him 10 minutes to run and then hunted him or may be take a leaf out of Mr Black and kidnap him and them dump him on a hunting reserve.

Quote from: Ijapa on Mar 24, 2010, 04:19:46 AM
I see the whole thing similar to Openmaw. Think about what human hunters do: they sit in trees with piss on themselves and blow deers' hearts out through their chests from 500 yards with bullets specifically designed for maximum killing power.

Then they come back and show their buddies the thing's ten point rack and everybody "oohs" and "ahhhs."

Then there are some hunters who'll use a compound bow because guns are too easy.

Either way, Predators (the clan or clans we've seen anyway) are depicted as hunters and not as ancient samurai who issue challenges and meet at such and such place at such and such time and have a duel. That's not a hunter-prey dynamic.

Sure, the Elder gave Harrigan the pistol, but that's not honor, that's the equivalent of a human hunter shooting an albino lion and missing and then saying, "Hell, you're somethin' special, maybe you deserve to be free and regal and beautiful and, uh, alive."

http://avp.ugo.com/images/top-fights/predator-vs-mike-harrigan.jpg
Free, regal, beautiful, alive

By inserting a make-believe code you're making them more Scar-like than Anytime like. Predators, insofar as we've seen, appear to relish inducing panic and inflicting pain. Predators are big pussy-faced crybaby sore loser assholes.

And I love it because it makes them great villains. So would a wounded, defeated, bruisy-ego'd Predator accept help to get revenge? Hell yeah it would, just like it's so resentful of losing a fight it'd blow itself up. All that said, some Predators are probably actually out-and-out nice Predguys. They're a galactic-faring species, someone has got to be a philosopher or some shit.

<3

Quote from: Ijapa on Mar 24, 2010, 04:19:46 AM
I see the whole thing similar to Openmaw. Think about what human hunters do: they sit in trees with piss on themselves and blow deers' hearts out through their chests from 500 yards with bullets specifically designed for maximum killing power.

Then they come back and show their buddies the thing's ten point rack and everybody "oohs" and "ahhhs."

Then there are some hunters who'll use a compound bow because guns are too easy.

Well, both types fit the Predator quite well, the first one his the one who kills his prey with the plasma caster while being cloaked from a three or roof top, the other is the one who walks up to the prey uncloaked and kills the prey with the wristblades.

QuoteEither way, Predators (the clan or clans we've seen anyway) are depicted as hunters and not as ancient samurai who issue challenges and meet at such and such place at such and such time and have a duel. That's not a hunter-prey dynamic.

That's why I think people missunderstand the whole honor and code thing.
I think that the Predators have more in common with an indian hunting than a Samurai following the Bushido code.

QuoteSure, the Elder gave Harrigan the pistol, but that's not honor, that's the equivalent of a human hunter shooting an albino lion and missing and then saying, "Hell, you're somethin' special, maybe you deserve to be free and regal and beautiful and, uh, alive."

That's why I think that the trophies are something that's tied to their life, the trophy is a "get out of death card", Harrigan might have seen that gun as a gift, but I think it's valued as a trophy in the eyes of the predator. Giving Harrigan the gun was the Elders way of letting Harrigan live.

Quote
By inserting a make-believe code you're making them more Scar-like than Anytime like. Predators, insofar as we've seen, appear to relish inducing panic and inflicting pain. Predators are big pussy-faced crybaby sore loser assholes.

But the code doesn't really change anything, there's so many exceptions in it so they can break every rule and get away with it...

Quote...So would a wounded, defeated, bruisy-ego'd Predator accept help to get revenge? Hell yeah it would, just like it's so resentful of losing a fight it'd blow itself up.

This is where our opinions go different ways.
A Predator accepting help from it's prey, I think that's something the Predators have nightmares about,
it's a situation that's beyond humiliating for them...because of their ego and status.
The Predators we have seen in the Predator movies all tried to commit sueside when losing,
This hunter-prey thing is far too important, they'll die trying to keep it intact.

QuoteI hated the scene in P2 when the Elder gives Harrigan a gun. Yes, he may have been impressed that Harrigan defeated one of his own kind but instead of giving him a gift he should have gave him 10 minutes to run and then hunted him or may be take a leaf out of Mr Black and kidnap him and them dump him on a hunting reserve.

I have totally different opinion about this scene. I think that Elder was very surprised seeing that Pussyface f**ked up and lost his fight. IMO he so was shocked that didn`t wanted to just kill Harrigan when he was extremaly tired and wounded. I interpreted this situation as preserving very good genetic material for future preys.

Quote from: Ijapa on Mar 24, 2010, 04:19:46 AM
I see the whole thing similar to Openmaw. Think about what human hunters do: they sit in trees with piss on themselves and blow deers' hearts out through their chests from 500 yards with bullets specifically designed for maximum killing power.

Then they come back and show their buddies the thing's ten point rack and everybody "oohs" and "ahhhs."

Then there are some hunters who'll use a compound bow because guns are too easy.

Either way, Predators (the clan or clans we've seen anyway) are depicted as hunters and not as ancient samurai who issue challenges and meet at such and such place at such and such time and have a duel. That's not a hunter-prey dynamic.

Sure, the Elder gave Harrigan the pistol, but that's not honor, that's the equivalent of a human hunter shooting an albino lion and missing and then saying, "Hell, you're somethin' special, maybe you deserve to be free and regal and beautiful and, uh, alive."

http://avp.ugo.com/images/top-fights/predator-vs-mike-harrigan.jpg
Free, regal, beautiful, alive

By inserting a make-believe code you're making them more Scar-like than Anytime like. Predators, insofar as we've seen, appear to relish inducing panic and inflicting pain. Predators are big pussy-faced crybaby sore loser assholes.

And I love it because it makes them great villains. So would a wounded, defeated, bruisy-ego'd Predator accept help to get revenge? Hell yeah it would, just like it's so resentful of losing a fight it'd blow itself up. All that said, some Predators are probably actually out-and-out nice Predguys. They're a galactic-faring species, someone has got to be a philosopher or some shit.

I like this post, it makes sense when you analyze the pred race

Quote from: Veteran Warrior on Mar 24, 2010, 03:43:29 PM

Quote from: Ijapa on Mar 24, 2010, 04:19:46 AM
I see the whole thing similar to Openmaw. Think about what human hunters do: they sit in trees with piss on themselves and blow deers' hearts out through their chests from 500 yards with bullets specifically designed for maximum killing power.

Then they come back and show their buddies the thing's ten point rack and everybody "oohs" and "ahhhs."

Then there are some hunters who'll use a compound bow because guns are too easy.

Either way, Predators (the clan or clans we've seen anyway) are depicted as hunters and not as ancient samurai who issue challenges and meet at such and such place at such and such time and have a duel. That's not a hunter-prey dynamic.

Sure, the Elder gave Harrigan the pistol, but that's not honor, that's the equivalent of a human hunter shooting an albino lion and missing and then saying, "Hell, you're somethin' special, maybe you deserve to be free and regal and beautiful and, uh, alive."

http://avp.ugo.com/images/top-fights/predator-vs-mike-harrigan.jpg
Free, regal, beautiful, alive

By inserting a make-believe code you're making them more Scar-like than Anytime like. Predators, insofar as we've seen, appear to relish inducing panic and inflicting pain. Predators are big pussy-faced crybaby sore loser assholes.

And I love it because it makes them great villains. So would a wounded, defeated, bruisy-ego'd Predator accept help to get revenge? Hell yeah it would, just like it's so resentful of losing a fight it'd blow itself up. All that said, some Predators are probably actually out-and-out nice Predguys. They're a galactic-faring species, someone has got to be a philosopher or some shit.

I like this post, it makes sense when you analyze the pred race

i agrea they must have scientists and stuff on there planet, and im shure there not all evil hunters. thats why the teamup didnt bother me in avp. if this were startrek there would be a pred on the enterprise.

Disagree completly about everything but that just me though.

I do think they have Honor,thats the impression Anytime,Pussyface,Scar,and the Elders gave me.

Maybe Im wrong to you but for me it makes more sense that way that the other alternative that they are just cold blooded assholes that doesnt care for anything but themselves.

Why they dont kill womans,children unarmed persons?

Why they take the fallen comrades if they not blow themselves?

HONOR.

you are free to disagree though but that will not change my view of seeing it.

Quote from: Raptor on Mar 25, 2010, 04:59:15 PM
Disagree completly about everything but that just me though.

I do think they have Honor,thats the impression Anytime,Pussyface,Scar,and the Elders gave me.

Maybe Im wrong to you but for me it makes more sense that way that the other alternative that they are just cold blooded assholes that doesnt care for anything but themselves.

Why they dont kill womans,children unarmed persons?

Why they take the fallen comrades if they not blow themselves?

HONOR.

you are free to disagree though but that will not change my view of seeing it.

How in the blue Hell is it honorable to hide in the tree's and shoot at people that have no idea you're there? Unless you're at war and its about winning at all costs, what kind of honor is that? Being sporting works just fine for the Predators.

Opinion is fine, but when it flies in the face of reason it must be challenged.

According to some actions the predator took during the first film, I'd say they don't hunt just for the fun of it.
Reason is only the 107 minutes you can watch. Explanation is everyone's own business. Honor or sport don't match my opinion. But it doesn't make it less than anyone's, since that's an opinion too. And it works for everyone... just to mention.

Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 25, 2010, 06:22:25 PM
How in the blue Hell is it honorable to hide in the tree's and shoot at people that have no idea you're there?

Apparently it's all forgiven and forgotten, as long as the Predator beats you to death with his bare hands or hands you a prize when you survived. They can act like the biggest ***holes and cowards, as long as there is a mildy relatable gesture at the end, they are honorable Samurais. Even though they usually hunt you cloaked from higher ground.

Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 25, 2010, 06:22:25 PM

Quote from: Raptor on Mar 25, 2010, 04:59:15 PM
Disagree completly about everything but that just me though.

I do think they have Honor,thats the impression Anytime,Pussyface,Scar,and the Elders gave me.

Maybe Im wrong to you but for me it makes more sense that way that the other alternative that they are just cold blooded assholes that doesnt care for anything but themselves.

Why they dont kill womans,children unarmed persons?

Why they take the fallen comrades if they not blow themselves?

HONOR.

you are free to disagree though but that will not change my view of seeing it.

How in the blue Hell is it honorable to hide in the tree's and shoot at people that have no idea you're there? Unless you're at war and its about winning at all costs, what kind of honor is that? Being sporting works just fine for the Predators.

Opinion is fine, but when it flies in the face of reason it must be challenged.

Well for start they are hunters are they not?

Do you expect them to go "Hello everyone Im here to hunt you down,I tought I needed to introduce myself because thats the honorable thing to do"

That ahd nothing to do with being honorable or not.

If they were not Anytime wouldve plasma shoot at Dutch laughing his ass off when he was down plain and simple,there is no defying reason at all about that to me.

Quote from: Ijapa on Mar 24, 2010, 04:19:46 AM
I see the whole thing similar to Openmaw. Think about what human hunters do: they sit in trees with piss on themselves and blow deers' hearts out through their chests from 500 yards with bullets specifically designed for maximum killing power.

Actually hunters rarely make shots past 150 yards.  They're certainly on the closer side of things when it comes to tree stands

Then they come back and show their buddies the thing's ten point rack and everybody "oohs" and "ahhhs."

Then there are some hunters who'll use a compound bow because guns are too easy.

Either way, Predators (the clan or clans we've seen anyway) are depicted as hunters and not as ancient samurai who issue challenges and meet at such and such place at such and such time and have a duel. That's not a hunter-prey dynamic.

Sure, the Elder gave Harrigan the pistol, but that's not honor, that's the equivalent of a human hunter shooting an albino lion and missing and then saying, "Hell, you're somethin' special, maybe you deserve to be free and regal and beautiful and, uh, alive."

You can maintain the hunter-prey relationship because unlike humans and deer, predators hunting humans involves 2 sentient species.  Predators hunt creatures that essentially "hunt the Predators" in turn.  That inherently involves a degree of respect.  Harrigan received the pistol because he killed the creature hunting him.  If it was merely acceptable to let Harrigan live then the Elder would have simply walked off.  The shot actually demonstrates this by having the Elder turn to leave and actually pause before turning around and awarding Harrigan a trophy.  The Elder awarding the trophy to Harrigan also illustrates the fact that Harrigan, as a sentient species, can be a part of the same code/system that the Predators themselves hunt by.  He bested his foe, thus he gets rewarded/

http://avp.ugo.com/images/top-fights/predator-vs-mike-harrigan.jpg
Free, regal, beautiful, alive

By inserting a make-believe code you're making them more Scar-like than Anytime like. Predators, insofar as we've seen, appear to relish inducing panic and inflicting pain. Predators are big pussy-faced crybaby sore loser assholes.

They enjoy the hunt, the violence, and the kill.  But you can't argue that they do not operate using at least a basic code.  They don't hunt the young, they don't kill pregnant females.  Honor may not be the best word to use, as it is a loaded term, but there is a sense of code that the hunters follow.

And I love it because it makes them great villains. So would a wounded, defeated, bruisy-ego'd Predator accept help to get revenge? Hell yeah it would, just like it's so resentful of losing a fight it'd blow itself up. All that said, some Predators are probably actually out-and-out nice Predguys. They're a galactic-faring species, someone has got to be a philosopher or some shit.

Quote from: bobcunk on Mar 25, 2010, 04:30:07 PM

Quote from: Veteran Warrior on Mar 24, 2010, 03:43:29 PM

Quote from: Ijapa on Mar 24, 2010, 04:19:46 AM
I see the whole thing similar to Openmaw. Think about what human hunters do: they sit in trees with piss on themselves and blow deers' hearts out through their chests from 500 yards with bullets specifically designed for maximum killing power.

Then they come back and show their buddies the thing's ten point rack and everybody "oohs" and "ahhhs."

Then there are some hunters who'll use a compound bow because guns are too easy.

Either way, Predators (the clan or clans we've seen anyway) are depicted as hunters and not as ancient samurai who issue challenges and meet at such and such place at such and such time and have a duel. That's not a hunter-prey dynamic.

Sure, the Elder gave Harrigan the pistol, but that's not honor, that's the equivalent of a human hunter shooting an albino lion and missing and then saying, "Hell, you're somethin' special, maybe you deserve to be free and regal and beautiful and, uh, alive."

http://avp.ugo.com/images/top-fights/predator-vs-mike-harrigan.jpg
Free, regal, beautiful, alive

By inserting a make-believe code you're making them more Scar-like than Anytime like. Predators, insofar as we've seen, appear to relish inducing panic and inflicting pain. Predators are big pussy-faced crybaby sore loser assholes.

And I love it because it makes them great villains. So would a wounded, defeated, bruisy-ego'd Predator accept help to get revenge? Hell yeah it would, just like it's so resentful of losing a fight it'd blow itself up. All that said, some Predators are probably actually out-and-out nice Predguys. They're a galactic-faring species, someone has got to be a philosopher or some shit.

I like this post, it makes sense when you analyze the pred race

i agrea they must have scientists and stuff on there planet, and im shure there not all evil hunters. thats why the teamup didnt bother me in avp. if this were startrek there would be a pred on the enterprise.

Well, showing a Pred that you can fight doesn't make you an ally, it makes you a target.
Watch Predator 1 and 2 if you don't believe me.
When Lex killed that alien she would have become a target...

...And If there was a Pred on the Enterprise he'll be hunting it's crew members.

Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 25, 2010, 06:22:25 PM

Quote from: Raptor on Mar 25, 2010, 04:59:15 PM
Disagree completly about everything but that just me though.

I do think they have Honor,thats the impression Anytime,Pussyface,Scar,and the Elders gave me.

Maybe Im wrong to you but for me it makes more sense that way that the other alternative that they are just cold blooded assholes that doesnt care for anything but themselves.

Why they dont kill womans,children unarmed persons?

Why they take the fallen comrades if they not blow themselves?

HONOR.

you are free to disagree though but that will not change my view of seeing it.

How in the blue Hell is it honorable to hide in the tree's and shoot at people that have no idea you're there? Unless you're at war and its about winning at all costs, what kind of honor is that? Being sporting works just fine for the Predators.

Opinion is fine, but when it flies in the face of reason it must be challenged.

Well, a Predator can sneak into a children's hospital and start eating on a kid mortally sick with Cancer and be Honorable, because he doesn't break the "code".

There sense of honor or fair play ain't like ours.
I think that the skinned body's left behind is a sign to show us and other Predators that a Hunter is there and that this Predator have claimed the territory for his hunt.

Skins are the trophy just like skulls. Bodys left after skinning are just leftover ::)

why the hell do people think predators are honourable warriors?

they are HUNTERS which means its not like they are forced to go out and kill. they do it because its fun.

warriors with honour such as samurai fight for their lord and their country.
predators wouldnt have such a thing.
theyre not into war, they just like to kill.

Quote from: Dark Passenger on Mar 25, 2010, 11:04:01 PM
why the hell do people think predators are honourable warriors?

they are HUNTERS which means its not like they are forced to go out and kill. they do it because its fun.

warriors with honour such as samurai fight for their lord and their country.
predators wouldnt have such a thing.
theyre not into war, they just like to kill.

Well said!!

Quote from: Dark Passenger on Mar 25, 2010, 11:04:01 PM
why the hell do people think predators are honourable warriors?

they are HUNTERS which means its not like they are forced to go out and kill. they do it because its fun.

warriors with honour such as samurai fight for their lord and their country.
predators wouldnt have such a thing.
theyre not into war, they just like to kill.

If you do something for "fun" it usually isn't a matter of life or death, if you like to fish for fun you wouldn't commit sueside if you didn't get any fish that day, or if you had one but it got away.
It would upset you, maybe...but you wouldn't strap a bomb on your chest and jump into the lake, killing yourself and all the fish within the blast radius.
If you however did that, the last thing I would think is that you were a dude who was just fishing for fun...

Quote from: Master on Mar 25, 2010, 10:55:01 PM
Skins are the trophy just like skulls. Bodys left after skinning are just leftover ::)

Maybe, but we had 4 movies with the Predator and none have showed us what they do with the skins,
Only that they leave the skinned bodys hanging.
And I think that they leave them like this for someone to find, if that someone had any knowledge about them then it would be a sign that a Predator is operating in that area, otherwise why would they leave that behind when they do make an effort in hiding the fact that they are here?
So the logical reason for me is that the "skinning" is a custom used for them telling us that it's hunting season in that area, or that they claimed that area for hunting. It's not a warning towards the prey, it's a statement.

AvP, didn't have any skinned bodys but those hunters weren't like Anytime or Pussyface.
They went to the Pyramid to become legit. Maybe they weren't allowed to skin their prey.

QuoteIf you do something for "fun" it usually isn't a matter of life or death, if you like to fish for fun you wouldn't commit sueside if you didn't get any fish that day, or if you had one but it got away.
It would upset you, maybe...but you wouldn't strap a bomb on your chest and jump into the lake, killing yourself and all the fish within the blast radius.
If you however did that, the last thing I would think is that you were a dude who was just fishing for fun...

well first of all we arent predators so we dont have their mind-set.

and second of all the predators hunt prey that can fight back, i can hardly imagine fish can fire projectiles at us.


now if we were hunting something dangerous like a lion or bear im sure being in an even fight would be the last thing you'd want.

Quote from: Dark Passenger on Mar 25, 2010, 11:50:36 PM

QuoteIf you do something for "fun" it usually isn't a matter of life or death, if you like to fish for fun you wouldn't commit sueside if you didn't get any fish that day, or if you had one but it got away.
It would upset you, maybe...but you wouldn't strap a bomb on your chest and jump into the lake, killing yourself and all the fish within the blast radius.
If you however did that, the last thing I would think is that you were a dude who was just fishing for fun...

well first of all we arent predators so we dont have their mind-set.

and second of all the predators hunt prey that can fight back, i can hardly imagine fish can fire projectiles at us.


now if we were hunting something dangerous like a lion or bear im sure being in an even fight would be the last thing you'd want.

Still, they commit sueside if they fail and they don't have to be mortally wounded to do this.
It doesn't make any sense if they were hunting only for fun.
But I do think that they think that the hunting is fun, that they love every aspect of it,
that it's the only thing that makes their life worth living.
I think that they look forward to each hunt and what kind of Prey they will find on location.
Going back to earth and hunt someone like Harrigan or Dutch must be like an invite to an all you can eat buffe for a person who can't stop eating, even if it would kill him.

QuoteIt doesn't make any sense if they were hunting only for fun.

as ive said, we arent predators. so what doesnt make sense for us might make sense for them.

QuoteStill, they commit sueside if they fail and they don't have to be mortally wounded to do this.

anytime was crushed by a log and was gonna die anyhow and it seems pussy face has accepted failure and tries to take out the creature that is about to kill him, like in a sore loser aspect

Quote from: Milan on Mar 25, 2010, 11:30:10 PM
If you do something for "fun" it usually isn't a matter of life or death,

Skydiving, mountain climbing, skiing, base jumping, car racing. There's always a big risk of massive injury to yourself while doing these things for fun.


As far as "dont apply human standards to them" Honor is a clearly defined human word, either Predators fall under being honorable, or they dont. Anything less than that is fanboy noise.

Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 26, 2010, 12:32:42 AM

Quote from: Milan on Mar 25, 2010, 11:30:10 PM
If you do something for "fun" it usually isn't a matter of life or death,

Skydiving, mountain climbing, skiing, base jumping, car racing. There's always a big risk of massive injury to yourself while doing these things for fun.

Yeah, but that wasn't what I meant about "life and death", I meant that if I was car raceing for fun,
I wouldn't go and kill myself if I didn't win the race or managed to break my old record on the track.

QuoteAs far as "dont apply human standards to them" Honor is a clearly defined human word, either Predators fall under being honorable, or they dont. Anything less than that is fanboy noise.

I think that they( the Predators) see themselfs as honorable...

Quote from: Dark Passenger on Mar 26, 2010, 12:16:02 AM

QuoteIt doesn't make any sense if they were hunting only for fun.

as ive said, we arent predators. so what doesnt make sense for us might make sense for them..

Sure, but if one tried to figure them out all their actions make perfect sense.
The thing is we make them hard to figure out when we are describeing them as honorable samurai warriors following the bushido code and commit seppeku upon failour towards their employer.

They are nothing like that, that shit comes from the AvP comic were Machico relateing them to the stories about the samurai told to her as a child.

But I didn't think about samurai warriors when seeing Anytime and Pussyface in action.
I thought about a race of alien hunters being fanatic about living their life as big game hunters.

Quote

QuoteStill, they commit sueside if they fail and they don't have to be mortally wounded to do this.

anytime was crushed by a log and was gonna die anyhow and it seems pussy face has accepted failure and tries to take out the creature that is about to kill him, like in a sore loser aspect

Anytime: makes perfect sense, he was mortally wounded and death was just around the corner.

Pussyface: Could have pulled himself up from were he was hanging, they are good climbers, once he's up on the roof top then Harrigans option would have been to beat him to death with his bare hands but I think that he would've be the one who that lost that fight. I think that Pussyface knew this as well.
Pussyface had 3 options:
1: let go and fall...
2: activate the wristbomb
3: Pull himself up by takeing the support with his legs and use his free the arm to grab the ledge harrigan was laying on. We see climbers do this all the time, and Predators are good climbers.

Pussyface was wounded but not like Anytime, Pussyface had alot of fight left in him.
So why did he activate the wristbomb?...
...for fun?

Quote from: Milan on Mar 26, 2010, 01:06:51 AM
I think that they( the Predators) see themselfs as honorable...

So if I go out, pillage, murder, and generally act like a manly-badass pirate. I can just say im not, even though I am, and that makes it so?

Or literally translated: Who gives a hoot what they think about themselves? Their actions speak volumes of their genuine nature.

In human terms.

QuotePussyface had 3 options:
1: let go and fall...

How high up was he?  I seem to recall stuff about Predators being able to land fairly softly from the first film.

QuoteSo why did he activate the wristbomb?...
...for fun?

to kill harrigan before he got away?

QuotePussyface was wounded but not like Anytime, Pussyface had alot of fight left in him.

he was just shot in the chest by a shot gun numerous times, and he lost his mask.
We dont know how long predators can breathe in earths atmosphere, you can hear pussyface having trouble breathing.

he only decides to fight back after he has the chance to and does heal himself
pussyface knew he was gonna die.

QuoteYeah, but that wasn't what I meant about "life and death", I meant that if I was car raceing for fun,
I wouldn't go and kill myself if I didn't win the race or managed to break my old record on the track.

as ive said. they are not people. maybe to them hunting is their life and its fun but to them
failure in a hunt may make them feel inferior and as a last ditch effort to kill their prey they kill themselves.

Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 26, 2010, 12:32:42 AM
Honor is a clearly defined human word, either Predators fall under being honorable, or they dont. Anything less than that is fanboy noise.

what if they have a concept of honor that is different from our own so they r not honorable by our human standard but they think of themselves as honorable by their non-human standard
i think that would be quite interesting tho i would agree that predators would have to be a tad delusional if they think they don't have a huge advantage over humans

We're never going to know unless we get a lame arsed expository scene of two Predators debating over the nature of what they do.

Best to just piss the idea of "honour" off entirely and say that it seems the Predators have "rules" for when they hunt.

QuoteBest to just piss the idea of "honour" off entirely and say that it seems the Predators have "rules" for when they hunt.

sounds good.

Quote from: SM on Mar 26, 2010, 01:27:46 AM
We're never going to know unless we get a lame arsed expository scene of two Predators debating over the nature of what they do.

Best to just piss the idea of "honour" off entirely and say that it seems the Predators have "rules" for when they hunt.

i can live with that
i just thought that it would be very ironic if the concept of honor was a central part of predator culture
ironic because surprising clueless humans in a jungle with superior weapons really makes them huge hypocrites if they actually thought of themselves as these honorable hunters who fight prey on equal level

That's always been my argument about applying notions of "honour" to Predators.

Quote from: Dark Passenger on Mar 26, 2010, 01:20:10 AM

QuoteSo why did he activate the wristbomb?...
...for fun?

to kill harrigan before he got away?

Harrigan wasn't leaveing...he was laying on that ledge...with Pussyface hanging on his arm...

Quote

QuotePussyface was wounded but not like Anytime, Pussyface had alot of fight left in him.

he was just shot in the chest by a shot gun numerous times, and he lost his mask.
We dont know how long predators can breathe in earths atmosphere, you can hear pussyface having trouble breathing.

Pussyface had a face mask that he used...

Quotehe only decides to fight back after he has the chance to and does heal himself
pussyface knew he was gonna die.

I think that Pussyface was in worse condition when he fought Harrigan on the ship than when he was hanging from the roof-top.
And he didn't look like he was mortally wounded when he woke up in the slaughter house...
He looked pissed.

Quote

QuoteYeah, but that wasn't what I meant about "life and death", I meant that if I was car raceing for fun,
I wouldn't go and kill myself if I didn't win the race or managed to break my old record on the track.

as ive said. they are not people. maybe to them hunting is their life and its fun but to them
failure in a hunt may make them feel inferior and as a last ditch effort to kill their prey they kill themselves.

[/quote]

You are right about them feeling inferior, they go from being the Hunter to being the PREY in their mind,
The only thing they can do when being beaten is to accept defeat and accept the prey as an equal or go for the wristbomb and make things right.

Quote from: SM on Mar 26, 2010, 01:12:00 AM
In human terms.

QuotePussyface had 3 options:
1: let go and fall...

How high up was he?  I seem to recall stuff about Predators being able to land fairly softly from the first film.

I think he would have survived the fall...but some don't.

Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 26, 2010, 01:10:00 AM

Quote from: Milan on Mar 26, 2010, 01:06:51 AM
I think that they( the Predators) see themselfs as honorable...

So if I go out, pillage, murder, and generally act like a manly-badass pirate. I can just say im not, even though I am, and that makes it so?

Or literally translated: Who gives a hoot what they think about themselves? Their actions speak volumes of their genuine nature.

We see this all the time, I live in Sweden but was born in former Yugoslavia, during the civil war, there was an army called "The black tigers" that army was led by Arkan, Arkan was at the time wanted by Interpol, they did that stuff ( pillage, murder, and generally act like a manly-badass pirate) to other people and said that they were defending the country, protecting the Serb population in Bosnia and Croatia, a solider defending his country and protecting his countrymen is honorable, right?

I say No, and that's why I say that the Predators are honorable in their own minds, sure they got rules that they apply during the hunt but that doesn't make them "good guy" honorable samurais...

so predators are either sadistic killers with pretensions to honor or sadistic killers with no pretensions to honor
choice B seems simpler to me
yes that about settles it tho I guess they aren't complete and utter assholes...like if they decided to dogpile Danny Glover at the end of Predator 2 ;D

QuoteHarrigan wasn't leaveing...he was laying on that ledge...with Pussyface hanging on his arm...

if pussyface died without activating the wrist bomb harrigan would have escapded.

QuotePussyface had a face mask that he used...

seemed more like a temporary respiritory system.

QuoteI think that Pussyface was in worse condition when he fought Harrigan on the ship than when he was hanging from the roof-top.
And he didn't look like he was mortally wounded when he woke up in the slaughter house...
He looked pissed.

how so? he had just been shot through the chest, having trouble breathing and has his armed chopped off
how on the ship is he worser?, he healed himself temporarily just before that.

Quote from: Dark Passenger on Mar 26, 2010, 01:58:41 AM

QuoteHarrigan wasn't leaveing...he was laying on that ledge...with Pussyface hanging on his arm...

if pussyface died without activating the wrist bomb harrigan would have escapded.

Well, I think that Pussyface could pull himself up, easy.
I don't think Pussyface was in any risk of dieing of old age anytime soon and I don't think that Harrigan would win a fight only useing his fists against Pussyface.

Quote

QuoteI think that Pussyface was in worse condition when he fought Harrigan on the ship than when he was hanging from the roof-top.
And he didn't look like he was mortally wounded when he woke up in the slaughter house...
He looked pissed.

how so? he had just been shot through the chest, having trouble breathing and has his armed chopped off
how on the ship is he worser?, he healed himself temporarily just before that.

He only closed his wounds when he healed himself. At the slaughter house he had lesser wounds to close and he didn't bleed that much, so I think that the shotgun bullets didn't go that deep.
He could have pulled himself up before Harrigan cut off his arm on the roof top.
There was enough time.
But something happened in the slaghterhouse that made Pussyface activate the wristbomb even when he could have finished the fight right then and there.
The most critical of his wounds was the arm that Harrigan cut off, still he put up a good fight and was winning it in the ship.

Quote from: magical_boy on Mar 26, 2010, 01:53:33 AM
so predators are either sadistic killers with pretensions to honor or sadistic killers with no pretensions to honor
choice B seems simpler to me
yes that about settles it tho I guess they aren't complete and utter assholes...like if they decided to dogpile Danny Glover at the end of Predator 2 ;D

I would go with choice A... ;D

But I learned that ppl will always see the Predator as an Alien, who hunts for fun and sport or an alien who hunts for more than just sport and fun.

But what do you guys think about the "old school predator", I think that the other (New) Predators will take that ones place in future movies, so if the movie "Predators" is a "going away" party for Predators like Anytime, Pussyface, Scar and Wolf, how do you think it will be?
Will he be talked about like Anytime and Pussyface, or Scar and Wolf?
Personally, I think they failed with Scar and Wolf.

I recommend ppl reading the script before they answer this.

Quote from: Milan on Mar 26, 2010, 02:29:21 AM
I would go with choice A... ;D

that's what Steve Perry went with also, with the only truly honorable predator being machiko's buddy in Prey the rest were pretty much assholes with fragile egos

If preds see themselves honourable, we won't know. Since there's no one to tell us what they thought about shooting people in the back, it can't be revealed. It's the same case with fun. Nobody knows what makes them happy.
But with saying they go after prey that can fight back it is accepted they differ from human hunters imo, since preys of humans don't have the will to fight back, or if they have an humans know it, they won't give them the slightest chance. Though it's for nowadys, in former times it wasn't the same because they didn't have the equipment we have nowadays. The difference is they were hunting for food mostly. Preds seem to go after prey that can kill them. Or sometimes they reduce their chances, or start to fight rather than hunt. My conclusion is that strenght is the value they are after. The strongest prey matters, and if they are surrounded by weaklings, those will fail too. But those who are the best will become trophies. It doesn't surprise me Dutch and Billy were the last ones to die. Even if Dillon and Mac hadn't stay behind, they would have been killed before.
This has nothing to do with honour or fun. Less with honour, since fun comes with the thrill of the hunt. Of course it's bound by rules.
But it's consequent, not a motive.
My opinion.
But anyway, since human words are used here, and 'fun, honour' are human standards, I don't think saying any of them would be more logical than the other. Though for me none of them is logical.

Quote from: magical_boy on Mar 26, 2010, 04:12:34 AM

Quote from: Milan on Mar 26, 2010, 02:29:21 AM
I would go with choice A... ;D

that's what Steve Perry went with also, with the only truly honorable predator being machiko's buddy in Prey the rest were pretty much assholes with fragile egos

I think that Steve Perry did it wrong, he made Broken Tusk a Hero.
The same happened with Spidermans enemy Venom, they introduced Carnage and Venom went from being a villain to an antihero, but I liked Venom more as a bad guy.
Same goes with the Predator, I like him more as a bad guy.
I can see a team up taking place but it have to be done with more finesse than how they paired Lex with Scar and Broken Tusk with Machico.

But I really would like to hear peoples opinion about the "Old School Predator".

The part within the spoiler tags is from the script, I left out some details in the fight, I think that the action described is good but there is something about it that reminds me of Lex and Scar team up but without the "Love"...

Spoiler

...Predator still hangs on the totem. Snaps back to
consciousness.

PREDATOR POV: Royce standing before him. Close. Too close.
Picks up an axe from a pile of discarded Predator weapons at
the thing's feet. Feels its weight in his hand.
Beat.

ROYCE
You understand me?
Crucified Predator focuses on him with bloodshot eyes.

ROYCE
I want out. Off world. There's a
ship here. Can you fly it?
Crucified Predator studies Royce for a long beat.
Then, a nod.

Slowly Royce raises the blade...
THWACK! He cuts the creature's bond. THWACK! THWACK! THWACK!
Predator falls to the ground.
Moment of truth.

Predator rises to his feet. Massive. Imposing, even despite
his injuries. Or perhaps because of them.
Royce stares at him, tensing, ready to fight and die.
And then the thing ROARS!
It is a cry ripped from the depths of its soul. Fierce.
Primitive. Timeless.

EXT. JUNGLE
Isabelle and Edwin are DRAGGED along the jungle floor.
Captives.
The ROAR washes over them. Birds SCREECH. Animals HOWL. It's
as if the jungle itself is reacting to the creature's call.
Black's head snaps toward the sound.

INT. SUPER PREDATOR SHIP
The space is dark and dormant as a crypt. Bulkheads.
Machinery. Grates. Spartan. Efficient. Lived in.
CLOSE ON a Lexan panel. A gauntlet covered Predator hand
glides along
Lights FLICKER on. A WHIR emanates from somewhere deep inside
the ship's core. Grows stronger.
Holographic display materializes.
Star charts cycle through. Finally settling on--
A familiar blue planet.
It reflects in Royce's eyes.
Another panel flashes, red, insistent.
A second hologram manifests. Ground proximity sensors. On it,
three forms -- one massive, two smaller, entwined --
approaching.
Predator hand reaches down. Picks up the original, old school
plasma caster resting on the floor. Lowers it onto his
shoulder mount.

Caster CLICKS into place. SWIVELS. GRINDS to a halt.
Predator SLAMS his shoulder against a bulkhead. Caster
swivels again, this time clean, even. Malfunction fixed.
Payback time.
Predator -- fully armed, fully armored, a warrior restored to
his former glory -- pushes out toward the exit.
Royce looks after.
Predator exits the ship, hitting a panel on his way out.
The hell that is this planet is erased from view, as the
bulkhead SEALS SHUT, leaving Royce very much alone.

EXT. HUNTING CAMP

A few skulls RATTLE.
Black's eyes snap toward them. Then to the totem.
Predator's gone, bonds cut.
Black swings around in the direction of his ship...
And DIVES, as a plasma bolt WHIPS by...

( Old school Predator and Black fights, none are superiour...until...)

Predator -- Black -- wrist blades locked. A contest of
strength, neither one willing to back down. WHAM, Black
delivers a vicious HEADBUTT that craters the other guy's
helmet...

...Predator staggers. Black DRIVES the wrist blades into his
back, puncturing the skin at the base of the vertebrae.
Wraps its hand around it. Pulls with otherworldly strength.
RIPS out Predator's spinal column.

It's over.

Black -- covered in blood, green and black -- studies his
slain opponent. Discards the grizzly object

[close]

I don't think Predators (2010) is a "going away party" for the classical/old-school Predator. RR's has just introduced a new clan into the original Predator movie universe and I'm sure we will see more traditional Predators in future movies and spin-offs.

Quote from: Dark Jester on Mar 26, 2010, 02:40:24 PM
I don't think Predators (2010) is a "going away party" for the classical/old-school Predator. RR's has just introduced a new clan into the original Predator movie universe and I'm sure we will see more traditional Predators in future movies and spin-offs.

I was adding the script to my previous post while you were replying,
you might want to check it out...

Quote from: Milan on Mar 26, 2010, 03:05:08 PM

Quote from: Dark Jester on Mar 26, 2010, 02:40:24 PM
I don't think Predators (2010) is a "going away party" for the classical/old-school Predator. RR's has just introduced a new clan into the original Predator movie universe and I'm sure we will see more traditional Predators in future movies and spin-offs.

I was adding the script to my previous post while you were replying,
you might want to check it out...

yes read it. what about it?

Quote from: Dark Jester on Mar 26, 2010, 02:40:24 PM
I don't think Predators (2010) is a "going away party" for the classical/old-school Predator. RR's has just introduced a new clan into the original Predator movie universe and I'm sure we will see more traditional Predators in future movies and spin-offs.

I think that the new Predators was introduced for a reason, they are the ones who will take over.
They are the future. But isn't this something that R.R already confirmed?
Something that has to do with the evolution with the cinematic Predator.
Like Anytime was THEN,
BSP is NOW

Quote

QuoteI was adding the script to my previous post while you were replying,
you might want to check it out...

yes read it. what about it?

Don't you think that the whole thing would have been better if the Predator didn't strike a deal with Royce in order for to be set free or saved.

I would have liked that he got free by an accident like miss directed fire and he went to his ship to pick up the Plasma Caster without Royce...

Quote from: Milan on Mar 26, 2010, 03:39:42 PM
Don't you think that the whole thing would have been better if the Predator didn't strike a deal with Royce in order for to be set free or saved.

I would have liked that he got free by an accident like miss directed fire and he went to his ship to pick up the Plasma Caster without Royce...

I can understand why some fans would find that part of the script annoying. Your idea can also work.

QuoteDon't you think that the whole thing would have been better if the Predator didn't strike a deal with Royce in order for to be set free or saved.

I would have liked that he got free by an accident like miss directed fire and he went to his ship to pick up the Plasma Caster without Royce...

It would be better imo. But when did RR confirm bsp is the future? I mean I haven't heard anything about it. That would be sad.

Quote from: 08yeyinde on Mar 26, 2010, 05:53:26 PM
But when did RR confirm bsp is the future?

I really hope not

Quote from: Milan on Mar 26, 2010, 02:27:52 PM
[/spoiler]

well at least old school has his injuries as an excuse

Quote from: 08yeyinde on Mar 26, 2010, 05:53:26 PM

QuoteDon't you think that the whole thing would have been better if the Predator didn't strike a deal with Royce in order for to be set free or saved.

I would have liked that he got free by an accident like miss directed fire and he went to his ship to pick up the Plasma Caster without Royce...

It would be better imo. But when did RR confirm bsp is the future? I mean I haven't heard anything about it. That would be sad.

Well, I remember that he's been talking along those lines in interviews, mostly when he explains the reason behind these new Predators being introduced. It's was like Anytime and Pussyface is the past, 2000 is a new era and with it comes new Predators...it's something like "evolution".

Quote from: magical_boy on Mar 26, 2010, 10:28:40 PM

Quote from: Milan on Mar 26, 2010, 02:27:52 PM
[/spoiler]

well at least old school has his injuries as an excuse

Excuse? I don't really understand what you're saying...

Are you thinking about Scar?
Well, Scar had an alien inside him and he knew it. So he was pretty much f**ked even if he didn't team up with Lex.

And if you remember the scene from AVP, then you remember that he was aiming his plasma caster at her,
but accepted her because she showed that she had "fight" in her when she killed the Alien...

That is WRONG!
When dutch and his team made themselves prey when they took out the camp, Harrigan and his team made themselves prey when Harrigan took out the Colombians outside the house.

To be able to kill something that a Predator sees as prey doesn't make him friendly towards you...
it's the total opposite. It's just the type of the thing that makes you a prey.

From what we seen from the movie so far it looks like they are sticking to that script pretty well,
I don't think that there Will be any major changes.

But I hope that R.R have done his homework, so that he'll understand the Predators more than Anderson and the Bros.

He can go whatever way he likes with the new ones and I'll support it, sure they ain't the same as Anytime and Pussyface but it doesn't have to be a bad thing, it can actually be refreshing.
If I'm going to "judge" them (the new predators) it will be after the movie.

But maybe, maybe they make the movie be like this...

Spoiler

...Predator still hangs on the totem. Snaps back to
consciousness.

The totem is damaged from the fight earlier, with the remaining strength the Predator has left,
he struggles, twists, but nothing...
He lowers his head, exhales...

Then, Suddenly...
... the bonds break and the Predator falls to the ground.


Predator rises to his feet. Massive. Imposing, even despite
his injuries. Or perhaps because of them.

And then the thing ROARS!
It is a cry ripped from the depths of its soul. Fierce.
Primitive. Timeless.

EXT. JUNGLE
Isabelle and Edwin are DRAGGED along the jungle floor.
Captives.
The ROAR washes over them. Birds SCREECH. Animals HOWL. It's
as if the jungle itself is reacting to the creature's call.
Black's head snaps toward the sound...

INT. SUPER PREDATOR SHIP
The space is dark and dormant as a crypt. Bulkheads.
Machinery. Grates. Spartan. Efficient. Lived in.
CLOSE ON a Lexan panel. A gauntlet covered Predator hand
glides along
Lights FLICKER on. A WHIR emanates from somewhere deep inside
the ship's core. Grows stronger.
Holographic display materializes.
Star charts cycle through. Finally settling on--

Another panel flashes, red, insistent.
A second hologram manifests. Ground proximity sensors. On it,
three forms -- one massive, two smaller, entwined --
approaching.

Predator hand reaches down. Picks up the original, old school
plasma caster resting on the floor. Lowers it onto his
shoulder mount.

Caster CLICKS into place. SWIVELS. GRINDS to a halt.
Predator SLAMS his shoulder against a bulkhead. Caster
swivels again, this time clean, even. Malfunction fixed.
Payback time.
Predator -- fully armed, fully armored, a warrior restored to
his former glory -- pushes out toward the exit.

Predator exits the ship, hitting a panel on his way out.
The hell that is this planet is erased from view, as the
bulkhead SEALS SHUT.

EXT. HUNTING CAMP

A few skulls RATTLE.
Black's eyes snap toward them. Then to the totem.
Predator's gone, bonds broken.
Black swings around in the direction of his ship...
And DIVES, as a plasma bolt WHIPS by...

[close]

Quote
Well, I remember that he's been talking along those lines in interviews, mostly when he explains the reason behind these new Predators being introduced. It's was like Anytime and Pussyface is the past, 2000 is a new era and with it comes new Predators...it's something like "evolution".

Oh, thanks for the info. But I hope he meant it more like these new preds will be another kind. I remember him using the terms, they are like 'dogs and wolves'. I hope it will be like this in the end.

QuoteTo be able to kill something that a Predator sees as prey doesn't make him friendly towards you...
it's the total opposite. It's just the type of the thing that makes you a prey.

I agree. Though if the situation is really messed up (like in Prey, but not in avp >:(), they might consider some help. But it ends there, nothing more or less. With the predators, I think the hunter that has been freed would pay his graditude only with not killing Royce. But nothing more, not teaming up, or anything like that. He became a prey just in that moment (with the bsp's and other humams). All he gets is a bit advantage.

QuoteTo be able to kill something that a Predator sees as prey doesn't make him friendly towards you...
it's the total opposite. It's just the type of the thing that makes you a prey.

I agree. Though if the situation is really messed up (like in Prey, but not in avp >:(), they might consider some help. But it ends there, nothing more or less. With the predators, I think the hunter that has been freed would pay his graditude only with not killing Royce. But nothing more, not teaming up, or anything like that. He became a prey just in that moment (with the bsp's and other humams). All he gets is a bit advantage.
[/quote]

I see the Predators as Yautja, that being said, I also see them as different, like comic Yautja and movie Yautja.

In Prey we get to see the Predators single out what planets and life forms they are going to sacrefise for their alien hunt, as I remember it, these lifeforms weren't ones that they saw as prey.
and they didn't know that there was humans on that planet.

The Yautja has three names and values for lifeforms.
1) Hunter-  are not to be hunted.
2) Prey-      are to be hunted.
3) Nothing-  are not to be hunted.

If you don't have fight in you, if you ain't acting aggressive or if you're actions aren't aggressive then you're nothing, if you do have some fight in you then you become prey and you're fair game,
if the prey manages to kill the hunter then the prey is seen as an equal, but doesn't gain the same respect as a Yautja.

In "prey" the beasts used for sacrefise and the humans were seen as innocents,
to hunt humans was against their code and that was why broken tusk fought his clan mate. That predator had a collection of human skulls, one seemed to belong to a child.
That made the Predator a bad blood, and bad bloods have to be killed.

Now it was up to Broken Tusk to fix the misstake made by them to hunt Aliens there.
It was an illigal hunt.

QuoteWith the predators, I think the hunter that has been freed would pay his graditude only with not killing Royce. But nothing more, not teaming up, or anything like that. He became a prey just in that moment (with the bsp's and other humams). All he gets is a bit advantage.

Well, I think that the old school predator sees himself as a Hunter and BSP is a bad blood who needs to be hunted down and killed...
How Royce would be seen is...well, I don't really know...
A Bad Blood has lost the title "hunter", but is it viewed as "prey" by other Predators?
I get the impression that they ain't viewed as "prey" cause if the prey beats the hunter then he's given some respect, a Bad Blood would never be given respect or mercy by an other Predator for killing one of their kind...never.

I didn't say I support the yautja concept, though there are elements in the depicted society I imagine just like writteb there. But I think in that situation the behaviour of the hunter was logical to me. Aside from all the cultural build up and society Perry made up, I think in a situation like that any hunter with normal inteligence would've done the same. I mean killing the bad bloods, who broke the rules. Then hed had to make sure the planet won't be destroyed because of their mistake. And for that he could team up with anyone, since it was not a hunting situation anymore. But in predators, it is, isn't it?

QuoteWell, I think that the old school predator sees himself as a Hunter and BSP is a bad blood who needs to be hunted down and killed...

He sees himself as a hunter, but I'm not sure bsp is bad blood. They didn't break any rules, because those rules don't exist for them. But the aren't prey also. I think preds look at them simply as something that has to be killed, no matter what. But bad blood is  category in their own society, and bsp is not. Maybe I'm wrong. Oh, I see. I was wondering why

QuoteA Bad Blood has lost the title "hunter", but is it viewed as "prey" by other Predators?
I get the impression that they ain't viewed as "prey" cause if the prey beats the hunter then he's given some respect, a Bad Blood would never be given respect or mercy by an other Predator for killing one of their kind...never.

this. But I see, I mentioned bsp as prey. Sorry, I was wrong. They are not, I agree.

It's hard to figure out what a Predator is and what rules they "follow",
cause most of the time we see the movie Predator flirt with stuff mentioned in comics, then we have the Predator seen in the comics who flirts with stuff seen in the movies...
It's hard to get a grip on what they really are.

I see the Predator having a culture that resembles the one described in the comics.
If I mix the movie Predator with the Comic Predator I come up with this.

*Everything in their culture and soceity is about them being hunters hunting.
*They believe in a hunter god and they honor their god by preforming rituals while hunting.
*When it comes to them being hunters hunting, they can be described as fanatics.
*Because of this fanatism they got stuck in their own evolution as a speices,
  that's why they have advanced tech but there also something very primitive about them,
  like they couldn't figure out what a fork is used for, other than stabbing a prey with it.
*They can take technology from other speices and make it suit their own agenda.
*They live and hunt alone or in clans/hunting partys.
*They got a code of honor, caught breaking that code will give the hunter the title "Bad Blood"
*Bad Blood's have to be hunted down and killed on sight, no thropys are allowed to be taken.
*Majority of the Predators call themselves Yautja, those who doesn't are considered being Bad Bloods.
*A Predator doesn't have years to describe his age, he uses hunts.
The "older" a Predator get's, the more influence he has over younger Predators,
  like the oldest one will be the one who is calling the shots.
*All Predators have to hunt, even the "old" ones.
*Trophys are vauleble in more than one way, a trohpy will grant the Predator one more hunt,
  who the trophy belonged to and how much of a threat it showed while being hunted
  will give the Predator extra respect,
  each trophy in their thropy case has a story behind it.
*Trophys are also left behind on the hunters location as a tribute to their gods,
  some are left behind to show both the potential prey and other Predators that the area
  has been claimed as "hunting ground" by a Predator.
*The Predator is a sadistic a-hole by nature, it loves causeing pain and fear.
*There are no such thing as a fair fight, it's a hunt, it's kill or be killed,
  if a Predator can manipulate  the "rules" to his advantage he will do it.
*The rules are not to be changed or questioned, ever.
*They used to live and hunt on their home planet, eventually they killed all the "Prey" living there,
  that's why they took their hunt to the stars...
*They think themselves being superiour speices, the title Hunter is their birth right, only theirs,
  all other speices are either nothing or prey.
*The title Prey is given to a lifeform that shows fight and it have be able to hurt or kill them.
*They got a big ego, Easy killings feeds that ego to the point that it makes them often overconfident.
*If the Predator would have been better keeping his cool while hunting,
  there would be alot more elders around.
*They seek their prey in locations were there's a conflict going on. They prefer areas that are warm.
*If you ask a Predator to describe his culture, religon and hunt, he wouldn't be able to do it, for him is just living. There are things like right and wrong, if he feels like he can get away with doing wrong then he'll probably will go for it. Much like if you are driveing alone on a straight road with a clear view both infront and back of your car, there are no cars or people around as far as your eyes can see, the road has the lowest speed limit, will you hold it?

Quote*Everything in their culture and soceity is about them being hunters hunting.

I agree. I see them hu8nters devoted their life to the hunt too.

Quote*They believe in a hunter god and they honor their god by preforming rituals while hunting.

Mostly I agree. I think there's some mystichal and ritual atmosphere around the hunt they keep and have. Not necessarily a god, and changing by clan. But anyhow, I agree.

Quote*When it comes to them being hunters hunting, they can be described as fanatics.

I said what I think about being fanatism. Maybe I said before, but I think all that drives them is strenght imo. They won't give up from that. They kill themselves if they can't be the hunters anyomore. I think what you call fanatism, I call strict clinging to values.

Quote*Because of this fanatism they got stuck in their own evolution as a speices,
  that's why they have advanced tech but there also something very primitive about them,
  like they couldn't figure out what a fork is used for, other than stabbing a prey with it.

I agree again. I think they are stuck for now, because they don't need anything else for the hunt. Their technology is for  hunting, so until they don't find something that beats them they won't do more. Their primitive aspect is for the hunt too imho. It's harder to kill something this way, so they kept it.

Quote*They can take technology from other speices and make it suit their own agenda.

It can be logical, but I don't think like that. In my opinion that wouldn't fit to their devotion to strenght.

Quote*They live and hunt alone or in clans/hunting partys.

I think too

Quote*They got a code of honor, caught breaking that code will give the hunter the title "Bad Blood"
*Bad Blood's have to be hunted down and killed on sight, no thropys are allowed to be taken.
*Majority of the Predators call themselves Yautja, those who doesn't are considered being Bad Bloods.

The code of honor for me is nothing more than a different way of thinking combined with rules. But I don't need to say it here, I think I told how I think before in this thread. But I think before becoming a bad blood, they go through some judgement. And if they oppose, they become one for sure (doesn't mean they won't become at the end of judgement). Not like human judgements, just the leader decides, very quickly.

Quote*A Predator doesn't have years to describe his age, he uses hunts.
The "older" a Predator get's, the more influence he has over younger Predators,
  like the oldest one will be the one who is calling the shots.

I rather think trophies. I see their society devoted to the before mentioned strenght, and according to this a stronger member can change the 'older' one, if he proves himself, but for this he has to defeat him.

I agree mostly about the trophies, though I think what they hunt, they keep. they live in the hunt, and the hunt is with them all the time. Their whole life is tribute to it, so no other tributes are needed. As I see them nomadic, declared hunting grounds isn't necessarry imo.

Quote*The Predator is a sadistic a-hole by nature, it loves causeing pain and fear.

I don't agree. They are brutal, since fight=their life demands it. They will do anything to win, as they hunt creatures capable, and if given a chance willing to kill them. I don't see that sadism.

Quote*There are no such thing as a fair fight, it's a hunt, it's kill or be killed,
  if a Predator can manipulate  the "rules" to his advantage he will do it.

Kind of. But they always seek the most dangerous prey imo, they accidentally make their demise more possible. Since equal footing doesn't exist, assuming a creature that devotes his life to defeating other beings isn't okay. Like in the duel between the hunter and Dutch. The hunter just made Dutch more capable of defeating him (it doesn't mean Dutch could kill him with bare hands now, but it was evidently easier than if the hunter had it's advanced weaponary). But Dutch wasn't near the level of the hunter, and both of them knew that.

Quote*The rules are not to be changed or questioned, ever.

Yes

Quote*They used to live and hunt on their home planet, eventually they killed all the "Prey" living there,
  that's why they took their hunt to the stars...

I imagine it, that as they populated, the prey they knew were on the planet wasn't good enough to prove themselves in the society. there wasn't enough variety of them. It caused problems in their societies, and they decided to find other preys. And as they had clan societies on their home planet, they kept it.

Quote*They think themselves being superiour speices, the title Hunter is their birth right, only theirs,
  all other speices are either nothing or prey.

The title is a birthrght, but I think they are clear on the roles during the hunt. We kinda disagree here, I know, but okay.

Quote*The title Prey is given to a lifeform that shows fight and it have be able to hurt or kill them.

I think too.

Quote*They got a big ego, Easy killings feeds that ego to the point that it makes them often overconfident.

I don't think they go in for easy kills. At least not intentionally. I'm not sure about their ego, must change by person. I wouldn't anything about ego as a species. Though I think they are hastily decide sometimes if they have won. Like in the movies.

Quote*If the Predator would have been better keeping his cool while hunting,
  there would be alot more elders around.

One elder per group I think. Even if every pred would keep their cool all the time, there would be only one elder. I think it depends on who is the strongest (by the way, by strenght I don't mean only physichal strenght, but experience, characteristics etc. I mean I imagine for them keeping one's cool is strenght). And since nature won't give abilities equally, not everyone will be able to become an elder.

Quote*They seek their prey in locations were there's a conflict going on. They prefer areas that are warm.

I agree

What I'd like to add. I see them individuals to the end. Even in clans, what it counts is themselves. They mostly do their stuff on their own. I also think the rules change (as art etc) from clan to clan, it's obvious for me. And even hunters change sometimes the rules in themselves, according to their character. But those are just minor things. I think their rules come from their behaviour. It's not like with humans, that we have rules because we somehow want to live in society (I see it like that), but they have their rules because they are what they are. In these rules (or unwritten law, imo) they define themselves, they define the species. This way they won't break it most of the time. And as I said, the most important aspect in their behaviour is looking for strong prey, they won't kill weaklings. Not because of mercy, or whatever, but for they don't want to.
Okay, it's a huge wall of text now. Sorry for the long quote part, but as so was as kind to summarize your opinion point by point, I though it would be fair to answer to most of them. Just ignore it if you wish. And more importantly, I'm not criticize it. I'm just telling my opinion :) And thanks for yours

@Milan, @yeyinde..
Guys, I just wanna say - impressive work and impressive summary. Both of you. I have nothing to add...
...except that I 100% agree with yeyinde. :)

Quote from: 08yeyinde on Mar 28, 2010, 07:23:42 PM

Quote*They believe in a hunter god and they honor their god by preforming rituals while hunting.

Mostly I agree. I think there's some mystichal and ritual atmosphere around the hunt they keep and have. Not necessarily a god, and changing by clan. But anyhow, I agree.

Them believing in a god comes from the comics, but I haven't found anything in the movies that contradicts the idea, so that's why I put it down, it's my take of a submerged comic and movie verse.

Quote

Quote*When it comes to them being hunters hunting, they can be described as fanatics.

I said what I think about being fanatism. Maybe I said before, but I think all that drives them is strenght imo. They won't give up from that. They kill themselves if they can't be the hunters anyomore. I think what you call fanatism, I call strict clinging to values.

Yeah, you got a point. The thing is that I'm not sure that "fanatic" is the right word to use,
What's the difference between a fanatic and a fundamentalist?

Quote

Quote*They got a code of honor, caught breaking that code will give the hunter the title "Bad Blood"
*Bad Blood's have to be hunted down and killed on sight, no thropys are allowed to be taken.
*Majority of the Predators call themselves Yautja, those who doesn't are considered being Bad Bloods.

The code of honor for me is nothing more than a different way of thinking combined with rules. But I don't need to say it here, I think I told how I think before in this thread. But I think before becoming a bad blood, they go through some judgement. And if they oppose, they become one for sure (doesn't mean they won't become at the end of judgement). Not like human judgements, just the leader decides, very quickly.

Well, for me a "Bad Blood" is a Predator who rebels...Like it don't care if it's season, it still hunts.
It won't have any problem with killing or hunting it's own kind, it wouldn't activate the wristbomb if it felt like it has become the prey during a hunt, it doesn't care about the if the prey show that it has fight or not, like the girl would have been killed among with the Jamaicans in the Penthouse scene (Predator 2) and it would claim the kill of the Colombian who it didn't kill.

Quote

Quote*A Predator doesn't have years to describe his age, he uses hunts.
The "older" a Predator get's, the more influence he has over younger Predators,
  like the oldest one will be the one who is calling the shots.

I rather think trophies. I see their society devoted to the before mentioned strenght, and according to this a stronger member can change the 'older' one, if he proves himself, but for this he has to defeat him.

I agree mostly about the trophies, though I think what they hunt, they keep. they live in the hunt, and the hunt is with them all the time. Their whole life is tribute to it, so no other tributes are needed. As I see them nomadic, declared hunting grounds isn't necessarry imo.

Hmm, I think about it like this, if Anytime would have won over Dutch and collected the trophy, then Anytime would be one hunt older...

Quote

Quote*There are no such thing as a fair fight, it's a hunt, it's kill or be killed,
  if a Predator can manipulate  the "rules" to his advantage he will do it.

Kind of. But they always seek the most dangerous prey imo, they accidentally make their demise more possible. Since equal footing doesn't exist, assuming a creature that devotes his life to defeating other beings isn't okay. Like in the duel between the hunter and Dutch. The hunter just made Dutch more capable of defeating him (it doesn't mean Dutch could kill him with bare hands now, but it was evidently easier than if the hunter had it's advanced weaponary). But Dutch wasn't near the level of the hunter, and both of them knew that.

I always seen the unmasking as something other than the Predator manipulating the odds,
I see the unmasking as a way for the Predator to finish the hunt, the only ones watching, are him, his prey and those who have taken the journey to the other side...I also see the unmasking as a tribute to the first Predators who hunted and are long gone, these Predators must have hunted with minimal gear. Like no masks, plasma casters etc...

Quote

Quote*They think themselves being superior species, the title Hunter is their birth right, only theirs,
  all other species are either nothing or prey.

The title is a birthrght, but I think they are clear on the roles during the hunt. We kinda disagree here, I know, but okay.

The hunter and Prey roles have both been seen in comics and movies, but the "nothing" role haven't got much time in the movies. Only one scene, it's the "spare the woman cause she's pregnant scene", killing the woman could kill the baby inside of her...that baby has the "nothing" title...it's doesn't count as game.

Quote

Quote*They got a big ego, Easy killings feeds that ego to the point that it makes them often overconfident.

I don't think they go in for easy kills. At least not intentionally. I'm not sure about their ego, must change by person. I wouldn't anything about ego as a species. Though I think they are hastily decide sometimes if they have won. Like in the movies.

You missunderstood me...With each kill during a hunt the Predators ego grows alittlebit bigger, this can be seen both with Anytime and Pussyface cause they take bigger risks, getting closer towards their selected prey, yes they seek the challenge but the challenge goes hand in hand with their ego or confidence, from start they take the long ranged approach then they start closing in...

Quote

Quote*If the Predator would have been better keeping his cool while hunting,
  there would be alot more elders around.

One elder per group I think. Even if every pred would keep their cool all the time, there would be only one elder. I think it depends on who is the strongest (by the way, by strenght I don't mean only physichal strenght, but experience, characteristics etc. I mean I imagine for them keeping one's cool is strenght). And since nature won't give abilities equally, not everyone will be able to become an elder.

I think that Pussyface would have survived if he kept his cool, he went in too fast for the kill, he might have thought that Harrigan was done cause he owned him and that cost him his life...

QuoteWhat I'd like to add. I see them individuals to the end. Even in clans, what it counts is themselves. They mostly do their stuff on their own. I also think the rules change (as art etc) from clan to clan, it's obvious for me. And even hunters change sometimes the rules in themselves, according to their character. But those are just minor things. I think their rules come from their behaviour. It's not like with humans, that we have rules because we somehow want to live in society (I see it like that), but they have their rules because they are what they are. In these rules (or unwritten law, imo) they define themselves, they define the species. This way they won't break it most of the time. And as I said, the most important aspect in their behaviour is looking for strong prey, they won't kill weaklings. Not because of mercy, or whatever, but for they don't want to.
Okay, it's a huge wall of text now. Sorry for the long quote part, but as so was as kind to summarize your opinion point by point, I though it would be fair to answer to most of them. Just ignore it if you wish. And more importantly, I'm not criticize it. I'm just telling my opinion :) And thanks for yours

I'm actually glad that we're able to talk about this without being rude and insulting because our opinions doesn't go hand in hand all of the time. I've got the greatest respect for you.

one thing that's crossed my mind about the Predator, it's culture, rules and values is this:

I, myself is born in former Yugoslavia, I have lived in Sweden almost all my life, for me it has become important to keep my Yugoslavian values and traditions alive here in Sweden, it makes me feel more complete as a human, more proud of my heritage.
I useally go back to Serbia on holidays, during the summer, to meet family and old friends but it ain't like before, Serbia ain't like Yugoslavia used to be.
And that makes my Yugoslavian values even more important.

Maybe it's a similar thing for the Predators, living their life on ships, going from one hunt to the next...
Maybe they sometimes go back, but it ain't like before, it ain't like the memories or stories, the stories told to the young Predator about glorious hunts from the past, on the homeworld.
So the young Predator might feel like it's important to keep that old culture and it's values alive before they are lost forever, and living by them might make them feel like that they aren't so far away, so far away from home when they go hunting... on earth.

Quote from: keylight-di on Mar 28, 2010, 09:31:34 PM
@Milan, @yeyinde..
Guys, I just wanna say - impressive work and impressive summary. Both of you. I have nothing to add...
...except that I 100% agree with yeyinde. :)

If you're agreeing a 100% with yeyinde's opinions then you're agreeing with 95 % of mine ;)
I'm glad to hear that. Thanks ;D

Do you have any take on the "old school Predator", do you think he'll have an important role for how the future movies will look?

QuoteWhat's the difference between a fanatic and a fundamentalist?

As far as I know fanatism is a total supporting of an idea (mostly religious, but it doesn't matter here) fully, without any doubts. It can be for hobbies too or other things. The individual won't change his attitude towards the subject, no matter what, and intolerates every opposing view. Fundamentalism is rather a belief in a view of standards, mostly religious too. But I doubt that I expressed myself clearly.Sorry.

QuoteI see the unmasking as a way for the Predator to finish the hunt, the only ones watching, are him, his prey and those who have taken the journey to the other side...I also see the unmasking as a tribute to the first Predators who hunted and are long gone, these Predators must have hunted with minimal gear. Like no masks, plasma casters etc...

Some serious point here. I agree. And to be frank, I didn't really think about this.

QuoteYou missunderstood me...

Oh, I see. I really did, sorry. Well, it's kinda true like it. Success potentially makes one's ego grow, and like this I agree. In the movies former trophies made them too sure, which culminated in over confidence in their last fight.

QuoteMaybe it's a similar thing for the Predators, living their life on ships, going from one hunt to the next...
Maybe they sometimes go back, but it ain't like before, it ain't like the memories or stories, the stories told to the young Predator about glorious hunts from the past, on the homeworld.
So the young Predator might feel like it's important to keep that old culture and it's values alive before they are lost forever, and living by them might make them feel like that they aren't so far away, so far away from home when they go hunting... on earth.

Though I see them a species that keep their strenght in changing, and doesn't really have steady places, this one is good. 'where it all started, and where did it go' Kind of.

QuoteI'm actually glad that we're able to talk about this without being rude and insulting because our opinions doesn't go hand in hand all of the time. I've got the greatest respect for you.

The respect is mutual :). Your ideas are well thought and deep. Even if I don't agree at some points, I learn from them :) And for this I owe thanks as well.

Quote from: keylight-di on Mar 28, 2010, 09:31:34 PM
@Milan, @yeyinde..
Guys, I just wanna say - impressive work and impressive summary. Both of you. I have nothing to add...
...except that I 100% agree with yeyinde. :)

And my respect goes for you too keylight. But you know that :)

Quote from: Milan on Mar 28, 2010, 11:11:19 PM

Quote from: keylight-di on Mar 28, 2010, 09:31:34 PM
@Milan, @yeyinde..
Guys, I just wanna say - impressive work and impressive summary. Both of you. I have nothing to add...
...except that I 100% agree with yeyinde. :)

If you're agreeing a 100% with yeyinde's opinions then you're agreeing with 95 % of mine ;)
I'm glad to hear that. Thanks ;D

Do you have any take on the "old school Predator", do you think he'll have an important role for how the future movies will look?

Yes. +/- 95%. Therefore, I will not even try to disturb both you in this wonderful discussion. Watching this is pleasure enough.  :)
This is a very rare sight, so fascinating discussion at such a high level of knowledge.  :)

I really hope that - as you call him "old school Predator" is a very important part of this incoming story. He should be a base, the backbone of everything. Without him nothing makes sense. I really hope that RR understands this, and that he'll be able to recognize this. And respect this.  Because otherwise all this will have no meaning, and this film shouldn't have the title "Predators."



Thank you, yeyinde. With reciprocity.  :)

Quote from: Sso02V on Mar 19, 2010, 03:03:25 PM

Quote from: Milan on Mar 19, 2010, 12:40:27 PM
Anyway, In the sneak peak/trailer we get to see a glimpse of an old school predator hanging in a three, being captured by the new ones.

This what you're talking about?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg717.imageshack.us%2Fimg717%2F3038%2Fpredmounted.jpg&hash=ffda92780ad5ed5ac6f8fc33729c0cc059f1bf8c)

I think RR's main point is to make them badass again...so he isn't going to make Classic a hero that is why

Spoiler

I want Classic to kill Royce once he helps Royce out on the ship...near the end of the script

[close]

Here's something I've been thinking about...

When reading the script you find out that Royce offers the OSP (Old school Predator) his freedom in exchange for the Predator helping him get off the Planet.
Once the bonds are cut it becomes quite clear that OSP is pissed and he got one thing on his mind...
Revenge.

He leads Royce to the ship and helps him set the ship on auto pilot towards earth and completes his part of the deal, but before he leaves the ship he also pick up the Plasma Caster on the floor and other gear...when he leaves the ship he's fully armed and armored.

This makes me think that the Predator knew that the stuff he needed would be on that ship and that ship wasn't his in the first place, BSP and the other Super Predators arrived in it.

My guess is that OSP was captured by the BSP and his crew, He was ON that ship cause it was there they stripped him off his gear, before they crucified him.

So for OSP to get his revenge he needs to free himself and get to the ship were he can gear up...
...then Royce comes along with a offer...he can't refuse...

If it went down like this then I've got no ill feelings about the "deal" or the limited team-up...

Quote from: Milan on Mar 30, 2010, 01:33:12 AM
Here's something I've been thinking about...

When reading the script you find out that Royce offers the OSP (Old school Predator) his freedom in exchange for the Predator helping him get off the Planet.
Once the bonds are cut it becomes quite clear that OSP is pissed and he got one thing on his mind...
Revenge.

He leads Royce to the ship and helps him set the ship on auto pilot towards earth and completes his part of the deal, but before he leaves the ship he also pick up the Plasma Caster on the floor and other gear...when he leaves the ship he's fully armed and armored.

This makes me think that the Predator knew that the stuff he needed would be on that ship and that ship wasn't his in the first place, BSP and the other Super Predators arrived in it.

My guess is that OSP was captured by the BSP and his crew, He was ON that ship cause it was there they stripped him off his gear, before they crucified him.

So for OSP to get his revenge he needs to free himself and get to the ship were he can gear up...
...then Royce comes along with a offer...he can't refuse...

If it went down like this then I've got no ill feelings about the "deal" or the limited team-up...

I think, that you draw very interesting conclusions. Only I don't quite understand the basic assumptions.
If OSP was kidnapped by BSP's clan, he certainly wants revenge at any cost. I agree.
For me the whole action between OSP and BSP clan, this is not a personal thing. I see in the larger whole. For me (on the basis of the script, so my conclusions may be wrong) it all looks like a great war. This is not a personal revenge but something much more serious.
Basis of the war, its sources and the main reason is (IMHO) the differences in the professed philosophy of approach to the fundamental laws that govern their life. Even if for all clans the most important are hunting and thrill of the hunt, they realize it differently in practice. The backbone of society, of species is hunting. But ways of hunting are extremely different.
Even if OSP was kidnapped, I'm not sure if a ship on which he wanted to return could belong to the BSP. We see very large differences between them. Different wristblades, completely different plasma cannon. I'm not sure whether these differences will not - how shall I say - incompatibility of weapons. Plasma cannon is quite a sophisticated type of weapon. Whether we assume that every plasma cannon fits for every Pred, regardless of the differences between the clans?
It's just my question/doubt.
But I really like the acronym OSP.  ;D

Quote from: keylight-di on Mar 30, 2010, 07:06:07 AM

Quote from: Milan on Mar 30, 2010, 01:33:12 AM
Here's something I've been thinking about...

When reading the script you find out that Royce offers the OSP (Old school Predator) his freedom in exchange for the Predator helping him get off the Planet.
Once the bonds are cut it becomes quite clear that OSP is pissed and he got one thing on his mind...
Revenge.

He leads Royce to the ship and helps him set the ship on auto pilot towards earth and completes his part of the deal, but before he leaves the ship he also pick up the Plasma Caster on the floor and other gear...when he leaves the ship he's fully armed and armored.

This makes me think that the Predator knew that the stuff he needed would be on that ship and that ship wasn't his in the first place, BSP and the other Super Predators arrived in it.

My guess is that OSP was captured by the BSP and his crew, He was ON that ship cause it was there they stripped him off his gear, before they crucified him.

So for OSP to get his revenge he needs to free himself and get to the ship were he can gear up...
...then Royce comes along with a offer...he can't refuse...

If it went down like this then I've got no ill feelings about the "deal" or the limited team-up...

I think, that you draw very interesting conclusions. Only I don't quite understand the basic assumptions.
If OSP was kidnapped by BSP's clan, he certainly wants revenge at any cost. I agree.
For me the whole action between OSP and BSP clan, this is not a personal thing. I see in the larger whole. For me (on the basis of the script, so my conclusions may be wrong) it all looks like a great war. This is not a personal revenge but something much more serious.
Basis of the war, its sources and the main reason is (IMHO) the differences in the professed philosophy of approach to the fundamental laws that govern their life. Even if for all clans the most important are hunting and thrill of the hunt, they realize it differently in practice. The backbone of society, of species is hunting. But ways of hunting are extremely different.
Even if OSP was kidnapped, I'm not sure if a ship on which he wanted to return could belong to the BSP. We see very large differences between them. Different wristblades, completely different plasma cannon. I'm not sure whether these differences will not - how shall I say - incompatibility of weapons. Plasma cannon is quite a sophisticated type of weapon. Whether we assume that every plasma cannon fits for every Pred, regardless of the differences between the clans?
It's just my question/doubt.
But I really like the acronym OSP.  ;D

This is what the Predator decides to do right after Royce gave it it's freedom back...

QuotePredator rises to his feet. Massive. Imposing, even despite
his injuries. Or perhaps because of them.

And then the thing ROARS!
It is a cry ripped from the depths of its soul. Fierce.
Primitive. Timeless.

OSP must have known that BSP would have heard his cry...
I think that his "cry" was actually a message to BSP,
something that would make him come looking...

QuotePredator hand reaches down. Picks up the original, old school
plasma caster resting on the floor. Lowers it onto his
shoulder mount.

Caster CLICKS into place. SWIVELS. GRINDS to a halt.
Predator SLAMS his shoulder against a bulkhead. Caster
swivels again, this time clean, even. Malfunction fixed.
Payback time.
Predator -- fully armed, fully armored, a warrior restored to
his former glory -- pushes out toward the exit.

The BSP and the other super predators arrived at the game preserve in that ship,
and OSP was already crucified when they did so how could he have known that the stuff he needed would be on that ship?
My only answer is, that it was on the that ship they stripped him off his gear...
Remember, he sent his message first then he and Royce went to the ship, I don't think that he found the gear at the ship by pure luck, nor do I think that he found Royce reason for getting of the planet more important than his need for revenge, and I think he knew that would stand no chance against BSP unarmed...

Perhaps you're right. Maybe. But given the changes that were made in the original script, the whole end can vary very considerably from that which we know.
And frankly, I hope that this ending will be different. Although I don't expect that the RR has allowed it to OSP won the fight. But IMHO he should be a winner.
Too bad. :-\

Bit of a throwback to earlier in the discussion as to whether or not Predators have honour and why they hunt & kill humans: maybe it's for a reason we, as humans, cannot fathom? An emotion we do not experience?

Who knows. They're aliens.

Quote from: Hive Tyrant on Mar 31, 2010, 02:30:19 PM
Who knows. They're aliens.

That's lazy.

Quote from: Hive Tyrant on Mar 31, 2010, 02:30:19 PM
Bit of a throwback to earlier in the discussion as to whether or not Predators have honour and why they hunt & kill humans: maybe it's for a reason we, as humans, cannot fathom? An emotion we do not experience?

Who knows. They're aliens.

Yeah, I understand that them being Alien might cause us to comprehend their motives and the way they are living wrong...but It would be a boring discussion if every thing we see and think we know about them from the movies and/or comics would be wrong, just because they're Aliens.

Think about it,
I can actually kill every statement about them by using the; "because they are Alien" argument,
and it becomes valid because the statement originated from a human.

Example:

Statement: Sometimes the Predator uses a projectile for long range attacks...

No, a Projectile is a human description, this thing, it's alien.
And we misstake it for a projectile, cause it looks and functions as a projectile but that's from a humans POV.
On a deep technical level, we can't even tell what it is, cause it's made of a material that can't be found in the periodic system, so one can say that it doesn't exist.
And it's purpose, long range attacks...
Again we are dealing with something alien, long range is about distance, the Predators are aliens and they might not think like us or messure range like us, in other words, long/short range attacks, is how we describe the distance from were an attack originated, for a predator it might be just an attack.

Attack...
... well even that is something that comes from a human, in this case, creating an impact with bad intentions,
We, as humans might see the Predator doing something that resembles an attack but they're ain't human and an attack has a purpose or a reason behind it. That purpose or reason might be something we, as humans can't comprehend or even fantom cause...

They ain't like us...they're alien, u'know.

Quote from: Milan on Mar 31, 2010, 04:15:51 PM

Quote from: Hive Tyrant on Mar 31, 2010, 02:30:19 PM
Bit of a throwback to earlier in the discussion as to whether or not Predators have honour and why they hunt & kill humans: maybe it's for a reason we, as humans, cannot fathom? An emotion we do not experience?

Who knows. They're aliens.

Yeah, I understand that them being Alien might cause us to comprehend their motives and the way they are living wrong...but It would be a boring discussion if every thing we see and think we know about them from the movies and/or comics would be wrong, just because they're Aliens.

Think about it,
I can actually kill every statement about them by using the; "because they are Alien" argument,
and it becomes valid because the statement originated from a human.

Example:

Statement: Sometimes the Predator uses a projectile for long range attacks...

No, a Projectile is a human description, this thing, it's alien.
And we misstake it for a projectile, cause it looks and functions as a projectile but that's from a humans POV.
On a deep technical level, we can't even tell what it is, cause it's made of a material that can't be found in the periodic system, so one can say that it doesn't exist.
And it's purpose, long range attacks...
Again we are dealing with something alien, long range is about distance, the Predators are aliens and they might not think like us or messure range like us, in other words, long/short range attacks, is how we describe the distance from were an attack originated, for a predator it might be just an attack.

Attack...
... well even that is something that comes from a human, in this case, creating an impact with bad intentions,
We, as humans might see the Predator doing something that resembles an attack but they're ain't human and an attack has a purpose or a reason behind it. That purpose or reason might be something we, as humans can't comprehend or even fantom cause...

They ain't like us...they're alien, u'know.

Even though you are being a smart ass... that has to be the most real and believable post I've seen.  ;)

Quote from: Milan on Mar 31, 2010, 04:15:51 PM

Quote from: Hive Tyrant on Mar 31, 2010, 02:30:19 PM
Bit of a throwback to earlier in the discussion as to whether or not Predators have honour and why they hunt & kill humans: maybe it's for a reason we, as humans, cannot fathom? An emotion we do not experience?

Who knows. They're aliens.

Yeah, I understand that them being Alien might cause us to comprehend their motives and the way they are living wrong...but It would be a boring discussion if every thing we see and think we know about them from the movies and/or comics would be wrong, just because they're Aliens.

Think about it,
I can actually kill every statement about them by using the; "because they are Alien" argument,
and it becomes valid because the statement originated from a human.

Example:

Statement: Sometimes the Predator uses a projectile for long range attacks...

No, a Projectile is a human description, this thing, it's alien.
And we misstake it for a projectile, cause it looks and functions as a projectile but that's from a humans POV.
On a deep technical level, we can't even tell what it is, cause it's made of a material that can't be found in the periodic system, so one can say that it doesn't exist.
And it's purpose, long range attacks...
Again we are dealing with something alien, long range is about distance, the Predators are aliens and they might not think like us or messure range like us, in other words, long/short range attacks, is how we describe the distance from were an attack originated, for a predator it might be just an attack.

A projectile is an object travelling through the air at pretty high speeds -- regardless of it being a coconut or a bullet, or even if it's something not on the periodic table. What the object is is irrelevant, only the situation it is in. Quite a shitty metaphor, if you ask me.

About the attacks; if it is an action actively undertaken to harm or damage, it is an attack... well, no arguing about that. I think nobody is going to disagree Predators know what they do when they blast someone with a plasmacaster. They end up dead. You'd think they would stop doing it if it didn't achieve the desired results, non?

I get the point you try to make -- and I do not believe they do it for reasons we cannot comprehend... just playing the devil's advocate here -- but you're not doing a very good job at making it. Whether the Predator considers it a long-range attack or not isn't going to make any difference... again, why they do it is what I'm putting at stake here. Not how they think about their methods of doing so. Or whether they measure distance (which they probably do, or they won't know when to stab with their wristblades or fire their speargun... silly point of yours there).

I can be a smartass too, you know.

Quote from: Travis Scott on Mar 31, 2010, 04:50:32 PM

Even though you are being a smart ass... that has to be the most real and believable post I've seen.  ;)

Hehe, scary, isn't it :P

Quote from: Hive Tyrant on Mar 31, 2010, 06:07:13 PM

Quote from: Milan on Mar 31, 2010, 04:15:51 PM

Quote from: Hive Tyrant on Mar 31, 2010, 06:07:13 PM
Bit of a throwback to earlier in the discussion as to whether or not Predators have honour and why they hunt & kill humans: maybe it's for a reason we, as humans, cannot fathom? An emotion we do not experience?

Who knows. They're aliens.

Yeah, I understand that them being Alien might cause us to comprehend their motives and the way they are living wrong...but It would be a boring discussion if every thing we see and think we know about them from the movies and/or comics would be wrong, just because they're Aliens.

Think about it,
I can actually kill every statement about them by using the; "because they are Alien" argument,
and it becomes valid because the statement originated from a human.

Example:

Statement: Sometimes the Predator uses a projectile for long range attacks...

No, a Projectile is a human description, this thing, it's alien.
And we misstake it for a projectile, cause it looks and functions as a projectile but that's from a humans POV.
On a deep technical level, we can't even tell what it is, cause it's made of a material that can't be found in the periodic system, so one can say that it doesn't exist.
And it's purpose, long range attacks...
Again we are dealing with something alien, long range is about distance, the Predators are aliens and they might not think like us or messure range like us, in other words, long/short range attacks, is how we describe the distance from were an attack originated, for a predator it might be just an attack.

A projectile is an object travelling through the air at pretty high speeds -- regardless of it being a coconut or a bullet, or even if it's something not on the periodic table. What the object is is irrelevant, only the situation it is in. Quite a shitty metaphor, if you ask me.
...

No, What you just gave me was a human description on what a projectile is from a human point of view,  the situation that object is in, is a statement made from an observation by us, as humans. You have to remember them being alien, not human.
And what we see as "blue" might not really be "blue" from the Alien point of view, so we can't make the statement that the aliens sees "blue".

QuoteAbout the attacks; if it is an action actively undertaken to harm or damage, it is an attack... well, no arguing about that. I think nobody is going to disagree Predators know what they do when they blast someone with a plasmacaster. They end up dead. You'd think they would stop doing it if it didn't achieve the desired results, non?
...

Again No, you gave a good definition from a human point of view what an attack is, but they are Alien,
what we see them doing might not be what we think it is, it might be something we can't comprehend or relate too cause we aren't alien.
The same goes with how we interpret an action done by the Predator, we may interpret it wrong cause we do it from human point of view...
An action might not be an action, an attack might not be an attack, the desired result might not be the desired result, dead might not be dead...etc

Quoteget the point you try to make -- and I do not believe they do it for reasons we cannot comprehend... just playing the devil's advocate here -- but you're not doing a very good job at making it. Whether the Predator considers it a long-range attack or not isn't going to make any difference... again, why they do it is what I'm putting at stake here. Not how they think about their methods of doing so. Or whether they measure distance (which they probably do, or they won't know when to stab with their wristblades or fire their speargun... silly point of yours there).

I hope you understand that I'm not serious,
I'm not trying to make good points, cause it would be...eh, pointless? ;D

Each statement on this board regarding the Predator is made from a human point of view. And that alone would make it wrong, invalid or not plausible, because of its origin, it came from a human trying to explain something alien, something we as humans couldn't understand, comprehend or relate to in any way.

Using the "humans can't reffer to anything human when they interpret the Predator, cause it's alien" argument" is a good way to really limiting yourself in a discussion.
Taking that argument serious would leave us with nothing to talk about, cause we're humans.

I rather leave all door's open, so that we may be free to use as many tools as possible trying to figure these creatures out. So that we can make references with stuff that we as humans know something about, discussing the Predator takes you to many places, many discussions have made me go to different pages on wikipedia and each time I learned something new about the past and present while being there.

I understand the "Alien/human" point in that argument, I even have used it in the past when discussing the Predator and its way of life but I didn't really know the meaning of it, it's an early stoppage, it's a discussion killer.
I rather work around it or avoid it altogether.

I got no ill feelings against you or any member who have used the argument in this topic,
my guess is that you guys haven't really reflected about it that much, cause it ain't without logic.

Honestly...you're reading FAR too much into it than there needs to be.

I GUARANTEE...the creators of these creatures DID NOT get so esoteric about them as you're trying to be.

They meant for them to be projectiles and for us to interpret them as such...they meant for them to be attacking and for us to interpret that as such.

You're trying to put too big of a spin on it, when it was never meant to have it, for the sake of what?  Making yourself sound smart?

IT'S A MOVIE!  That's all it is, that's all it was ever meant to be.

You're trying to turn it into some type of abtruse French film type experience...and it's never going to be such.

Quote from: Sabres21768 on Mar 31, 2010, 11:41:25 PM
Honestly...you're reading FAR too much into it than there needs to be.

I GUARANTEE...the creators of these creatures DID NOT get so esoteric about them as you're trying to be.

They meant for them to be projectiles and for us to interpret them as such...they meant for them to be attacking and for us to interpret that as such.

You're trying to put too big of a spin on it, when it was never meant to have it, for the sake of what?  Making yourself sound smart?

IT'S A MOVIE!  That's all it is, that's all it was ever meant to be.

You're trying to turn it into some type of abtruse French film type experience...and it's never going to be such.

I thought that to, but I realized he isn't trying to sound smart or anything, he's just stating it, it's not really him looking to far into it, but just showing you COULD play it out like that if you wanted to. That's all.

Quote from: Travis Scott on Mar 31, 2010, 11:49:45 PM

Quote from: Sabres21768 on Mar 31, 2010, 11:41:25 PM
Honestly...you're reading FAR too much into it than there needs to be.

I GUARANTEE...the creators of these creatures DID NOT get so esoteric about them as you're trying to be.

They meant for them to be projectiles and for us to interpret them as such...they meant for them to be attacking and for us to interpret that as such.

You're trying to put too big of a spin on it, when it was never meant to have it, for the sake of what?  Making yourself sound smart?


You're trying to turn it into some type of abtruse French film type experience...and it's never going to be such.

I thought that to, but I realized he isn't trying to sound smart or anything, he's just stating it, it's not really him looking to far into it, but just showing you COULD play it out like that if you wanted to. That's all.

Yes, Travis Scott is right.
As I stated in my previous post, I wasn't serious or trying to make a good point with my examples...

QuoteI hope you understand that I'm not serious,
I'm not trying to make good points, cause it would be...eh, pointless?

I can change the projectile part with anything related to the Predator, it still would be the same type of example no matter what part I choose.
And that was in a way my point, I took the "projectile used for long-range attacks" to show how far one could go useing that argument, every little statement or speculation can be "killed" if the "Alien/Human" argument is taken seriously.

You can pick apart every little thing about the Predator useing that argument,
I'm sure that there are people here who could have made the example way better than me,
because their native tounge is English. I know that I would have done a better job explaining that example in Swedish.

QuoteIT'S A MOVIE!  That's all it is, that's all it was ever meant to be.

Oh, REALLY??? Thanks for letting me know that, I thought it was for real!!!
Thank god, now I can leave my apartment again dureing the summer without being afraid,
because an evil monster from space wants to hunt med down cause it thinks that my a$$ would look good on his trophy wall.
THANK YOU!!!
You have changed my life forever...
...Now I can go out dureing the days but I better stay inside at nights,
cause "they mostly come out at nights, mostly" ;)

Was browsing the boards if IMDB, and yes yes yes, I know, horrible place to go but I went to see if there were some transcripts between RR and the chatters there. I'm not sure how this came to be, or where this rumor even so much as came from but there have been speculations that the Classic Predator lives.

-Rakai'Thwei

Quote from: Milan on Apr 01, 2010, 01:19:26 AMOh, REALLY??? Thanks for letting me know that, I thought it was for real!!!
Thank god, now I can leave my apartment again dureing the summer without being afraid,
because an evil monster from space wants to hunt med down cause it thinks that my a$$ would look good on his trophy wall.
THANK YOU!!!
You have changed my life forever...
...Now I can go out dureing the days but I better stay inside at nights,
cause "they mostly come out at nights, mostly" ;)

Oh no, please don't go.

Please spend more of YOUR time writing out, what you yourself state, are pointless lengthy arguments.

There's nothing funnier than watching another person waste his own time.  ;)

Quote from: RakaiThwei on Apr 01, 2010, 02:02:31 AM
Was browsing the boards if IMDB, and yes yes yes, I know, horrible place to go but I went to see if there were some transcripts between RR and the chatters there. I'm not sure how this came to be, or where this rumor even so much as came from but there have been speculations that the Classic Predator lives.

-Rakai'Thwei

Well remember, in the RR original script the regular pred lives and escapes the planet with Dutch. So maybe they switched the ending because RR said the leaked script was not the final shooting script.

Quote from: Hybrid PM on Apr 01, 2010, 04:10:34 AM
Well remember, in the RR original script the regular pred lives and escapes the planet with Dutch. So maybe they switched the ending because RR said the leaked script was not the final shooting script.

If the rumor is true...

Then I'll be one happy Predator fan.

-Rakai'Thwei

Quote from: RakaiThwei on Apr 01, 2010, 04:23:35 AM

Quote from: Hybrid PM on Apr 01, 2010, 04:10:34 AM
Well remember, in the RR original script the regular pred lives and escapes the planet with Dutch. So maybe they switched the ending because RR said the leaked script was not the final shooting script.

If the rumor is true...

Then I'll be one happy Predator fan.

-Rakai'Thwei

For me it depends on how they portray Mr. Black. If he's as badass as the original Anytime or hell even Pussyface and he kills the Stan Winstion pred, I don't think I will mind. As long as they have a great fight scene.

Quote from: Hybrid PM on Apr 01, 2010, 04:28:25 AM
For me it depends on how they portray Mr. Black. If he's as badass as the original Anytime or hell even Pussyface and he kills the Stan Winstion pred, I don't think I will mind. As long as they have a great fight scene.

If you ask me, thats some pretty big shoes to fill.

-Rakai'Thwei

Quote from: RakaiThwei on Apr 01, 2010, 04:34:12 AM

Quote from: Hybrid PM on Apr 01, 2010, 04:28:25 AM
For me it depends on how they portray Mr. Black. If he's as badass as the original Anytime or hell even Pussyface and he kills the Stan Winstion pred, I don't think I will mind. As long as they have a great fight scene.

If you ask me, thats some pretty big shoes to fill.

-Rakai'Thwei

It is, but I think its possible.

Quote from: Hybrid PM on Apr 01, 2010, 04:46:30 AM
It is, but I think its possible.

To be honest, I like ALL of the Predators in ALL of the films.

From everything I have been hearing from the Chat Q&A with Rodriguez, I'm willing to give this new renegade clan a chance. I can tell you I already like the classic Predator, but let's see how these renegade Predators fair..

My fears are all gone.

-Rakai'Thwei

Quote from: Hybrid PM on Apr 01, 2010, 04:28:25 AM
For me it depends on how they portray Mr. Black. If he's as badass as the original Anytime or hell even Pussyface and he kills the Stan Winstion pred, I don't think I will mind. As long as they have a great fight scene.

No Predator will be more badass than Anytime...not even Pussyface...not any predator.

Quote from: Sabres21768 on Apr 01, 2010, 03:58:55 AM

Quote from: Milan on Apr 01, 2010, 01:19:26 AMOh, REALLY??? Thanks for letting me know that, I thought it was for real!!!
Thank god, now I can leave my apartment again during the summer without being afraid,
because an evil monster from space wants to hunt med down cause it thinks that my a$$ would look good on his trophy wall.
THANK YOU!!!
You have changed my life forever...
...Now I can go out during the days but I better stay inside at nights,
cause "they mostly come out at nights, mostly" ;)

Oh no, please don't go.

Please spend more of YOUR time writing out, what you yourself state, are pointless lengthy arguments.

There's nothing funnier than watching another person waste his own time.  ;)

Well, I could start posting in a way that would suit your taste better...

DUDE! the Pred got a awesome Plasma Caster!!! It just go BLAM!!! And a Head explodes like BLAM...

But these kind of caveman posts makes my face-palm go BLAM!

And I rather avoid the headache combined with a sore forehead.

You too have a brain, why should I be the only one using it in a discussion?
You might even find it refreshing, give it a try, it won't hurt.
You might even find it more fun than watching a fellow member waisting his time...
...cause he gave something a serious thought.

( me writing the example, the argument in it, ain't me giving my opinion in a serious way, the point I made with that argument was however serious. If you still don't get what I'm trying to say then give me 3 random statements about the Predator as an Alien, use stuff that can be seen in the movies and I'll show you my point.)




Nah, f**k it, I'm in no mood too bitch about this one.

Quote from: RakaiThwei on Apr 01, 2010, 04:51:52 AM

Quote from: Hybrid PM on Apr 01, 2010, 04:46:30 AM
It is, but I think its possible.

To be honest, I like ALL of the Predators in ALL of the films.

From everything I have been hearing from the Chat Q&A with Rodriguez, I'm willing to give this new renegade clan a chance. I can tell you I already like the classic Predator, but let's see how these renegade Predators fair..

My fears are all gone.

-Rakai'Thwei

I was skeptic towards the "super predators" in the beginning but I'll give'em a chance, they have grown on me lately and I think that they might bring something new and fresh to the franchise.
Later on we might find out why they are at "war" with the classic predators, I think that the answer to that may give us even more information about the creatures.

@Milan.
If you want to see the result of my speculations, this is it:

;)

If BSP clan and "normal" clan are fighting there has to be seriously reason. IMO it's not about domination, but about constancy and faithfulness for rules. We have to presume, that "normal" clan it's clan which keeps rules of honour, including rules of  equal fight with enemy/ equal hunting for prey.  So they are opposed to mutations, kidnapping of preys, etc. etc. Everything what we can see in BSP clan. This is cardinal reason of this war. Principles. "Normal" clan keeps their rules as constant philosophy tracing  their way by life. BSP clan tries to find shorter way. It has to be cause of war. Like medieval crusade, but on different platform.

So I believe, that their evolution - cultural and biological - goes two ways:
The first - allegiance to the principles, the subordination of nature, the primacy of the physical skills to improve. Martial art. It's  a classic Pred's way.
The second - everything is allowed, no rules to be observed, the most important is to be the best and most effective, regardless of price. This is  BSP's way.

I think, that fight of supremacy intra-group and among clans  is/could be typical for every carnivore species, which have to live in group or in near places. Like wolfs, or something like this. It's universal way to become a lider and  universal way to conquest a territory. But honor it's very important here. It's cause and result, that them society can exist. They don't kill each other. They have rules. Very, very tight. Corset of conduct, safety regime for aggressive behavior. Otherwise, all could kill each other at the first opportunity.

OSPs are looking for the most valuable preys. The greatest challenges. They hunt for the trophy.
BSP  hunting  breaks all the rules. He moves the victims to his own land and deprives their greatest assets, trumps. This makes them weaker. Using the famous triple plasma caster -what BSP gets as the trophy? Homogenized tissues? Shreds, or even less. What does he hang on his trophy wall? Why does he hunt?  But the biggest violation of the rules is - for me personally -  not so much a change in behavior, but change themselves. The genetic mutations which are changing body. It  puts  BSP  beyond traditional Preds society. This makes them Outcasts.
It is a betrayal to all the holy rules of hunting.
Weapons, dogs and falcons that's a trifle. It's only a consequence of physical changes.

So - like I said before: for me it's Holy War. For principles.

Quote from: Milan on Apr 01, 2010, 06:07:16 PM

Quote from: Sabres21768 on Apr 01, 2010, 03:58:55 AM

Quote from: Milan on Apr 01, 2010, 01:19:26 AMOh, REALLY??? Thanks for letting me know that, I thought it was for real!!!
Thank god, now I can leave my apartment again during the summer without being afraid,
because an evil monster from space wants to hunt med down cause it thinks that my a$$ would look good on his trophy wall.
THANK YOU!!!
You have changed my life forever...
...Now I can go out during the days but I better stay inside at nights,
cause "they mostly come out at nights, mostly" ;)

Oh no, please don't go.

Please spend more of YOUR time writing out, what you yourself state, are pointless lengthy arguments.

There's nothing funnier than watching another person waste his own time.  ;)

Well, I could start posting in a way that would suit your taste better...

DUDE! the Pred got a awesome Plasma Caster!!! It just go BLAM!!! And a Head explodes like BLAM...

But these kind of caveman posts makes my face-palm go BLAM!

And I rather avoid the headache combined with a sore forehead.

You too have a brain, why should I be the only one using it in a discussion?
You might even find it refreshing, give it a try, it won't hurt.
You might even find it more fun than watching a fellow member waisting his time...
...cause he gave something a serious thought.

( me writing the example, the argument in it, ain't me giving my opinion in a serious way, the point I made with that argument was however serious. If you still don't get what I'm trying to say then give me 3 random statements about the Predator as an Alien, use stuff that can be seen in the movies and I'll show you my point.)




Nah, f**k it, I'm in no mood too bitch about this one.

Quote from: RakaiThwei on Apr 01, 2010, 04:51:52 AM

Quote from: Hybrid PM on Apr 01, 2010, 04:46:30 AM
It is, but I think its possible.

To be honest, I like ALL of the Predators in ALL of the films.

From everything I have been hearing from the Chat Q&A with Rodriguez, I'm willing to give this new renegade clan a chance. I can tell you I already like the classic Predator, but let's see how these renegade Predators fair..

My fears are all gone.

-Rakai'Thwei

I was skeptic towards the "super predators" in the beginning but I'll give'em a chance, they have grown on me lately and I think that they might bring something new and fresh to the franchise.
Later on we might find out why they are at "war" with the classic predators, I think that the answer to that may give us even more information about the creatures.

I love that you took your time to type all of that out for me.  ;)

Quote from: keylight-di on Apr 02, 2010, 04:24:06 AM
@Milan.
If you want to see the result of my speculations, this is it:

Warning! High concentration of speculations and possible spoilers.

;)

If BSP clan and "normal" clan are fighting there has to be seriously reason. IMO it's not about domination, but about constancy and faithfulness for rules. We have to presume, that "normal" clan it's clan which keeps rules of honour, including rules of  equal fight with enemy/ equal hunting for prey.  So they are opposed to mutations, kidnapping of preys, etc. etc. Everything what we can see in BSP clan. This is cardinal reason of this war. Principles. "Normal" clan keeps their rules as constant philosophy tracing  their way by life. BSP clan tries to find shorter way. It has to be cause of war. Like medieval crusade, but on different platform.

So I believe, that their evolution - cultural and biological - goes two ways:
The first - allegiance to the principles, the subordination of nature, the primacy of the physical skills to improve. Martial art. It's  a classic Pred's way.
The second - everything is allowed, no rules to be observed, the most important is to be the best and most effective, regardless of price. This is  BSP's way.

I think, that fight of supremacy intra-group and among clans  is/could be typical for every carnivore species, which have to live in group or in near places. Like wolfs, or something like this. It's universal way to become a lider and  universal way to conquest a territory. But honor it's very important here. It's cause and result, that them society can exist. They don't kill each other. They have rules. Very, very tight. Corset of conduct, safety regime for aggressive behavior. Otherwise, all could kill each other at the first opportunity.

OSPs are looking for the most valuable preys. The greatest challenges. They hunt for the trophy.
BSP  hunting  breaks all the rules. He moves the victims to his own land and deprives their greatest assets, trumps. This makes them weaker. Using the famous triple plasma caster -what BSP gets as the trophy? Homogenized tissues? Shreds, or even less. What does he hang on his trophy wall? Why does he hunt?  But the biggest violation of the rules is - for me personally -  not so much a change in behavior, but change themselves. The genetic mutations which are changing body. It  puts  BSP  beyond traditional Preds society. This makes them Outcasts.
It is a betrayal to all the holy rules of hunting.
Weapons, dogs and falcons that's a trifle. It's only a consequence of physical changes.

So - like I said before: for me it's Holy War. For principles.

Yeah, I see their "war" the same way...
I also think that the "super predators" think that because of their genetic mutations they are no longer equal to the classic predators, they might see the classic ones as primitive...
I see them being racist, like in the same way many whites and Europeans many years ago saw the Africans or other dark skinned people , they forced them into slavery and didn't see their slaves as equal, they saw the slaves as primitive and the slaves place was way below them.
Now, I don't see the Predator as slavers dealing with slavery, I see them as Hunters hunting, but I think that the "Super predators" see all life forms below them, even the classic predator. The classic predator is no longer a hunter, he is seen as prey...for a race that have carried the title hunter from the dawn of time, it's the biggest insult.

I'm not sure if we can we talk about the war in terms of primitive and supremacy. It's probably something else. Deeper and in another way. This is about approach to the whole philosophy of life. To the priorities. Do you choose as a target self improvement, upgrading all available means, or rather the refinement of art of hunting and fighting. Or do you bet on technology as a subject or object.
I don't know whether the BSP sees OSP as primitive. It's possible. But it's not the point. People in his eyes will also look primitive, but he sees potential in them an equal preys. But war it's not hunting. War it's something much more serious. And we should look at roots of problem. This problem IMHO it's way of life. Philosophy of hunting. Philosophy of evolution. Or evolution of philosophy. No matter, how we call it.

Quote from: keylight-di on Apr 02, 2010, 04:11:53 PM
I'm not sure if we can we talk about the war in terms of primitive and supremacy. It's probably something else. Deeper and in another way. This is about approach to the whole philosophy of life. To the priorities. Do you choose as a target self improvement, upgrading all available means, or rather the refinement of art of hunting and fighting. Or do you bet on technology as a subject or object.
I don't know whether the BSP sees OSP as primitive. It's possible. But it's not the point. People in his eyes will also look primitive, but he sees potential in them an equal preys. But war it's not hunting. War it's something much more serious. And we should look at roots of problem. This problem IMHO it's way of life. Philosophy of hunting. Philosophy of evolution. Or evolution of philosophy. No matter, how we call it.

Primitive might be the wrong word, inferior might be closer too what I got in mind.

This "War" thing is confusing...

The movie takes place at a game preserve where the super predators are hunting their kidnapped prey,
OSP is there also, but he's not being used as prey for their hunt, he has been crucified and tortured.
Can he be a prisoner of war?
( I'm not 100% sure about it but I think that it's mentioned in the leaked script that the upgraded predators have been hunting the traditional ones in that game preserve)

In my earlier post I was mostly thinking about the hunter-prey mentality.
I'm certain that a Predator would have a big problem with accepting the prey as an equal, that's why they rather kill themselves.
Now we have Predators who have upgraded themselves, they become faster, stronger and more technical advanced than the old school predators, they even act and see themselves above their laws or rules...

I sure that the upgraded Predator don't see the classic one as an equal,
and the classic one must feel the same thing, the upgraded ain't an equal, he's a cheater and a douche...

And that cheater has the stomach to place himself above them, and their rules or values,
It even hunts them like prey, like they would be inferior.
The upgraded predator acts like he now owns the title hunter and the old school predator have become the prey...

I think that this is what sparked the war.

That actually sounds pretty good to me.

Quote from: keylight-di on Apr 02, 2010, 04:11:53 PM
I'm not sure if we can we talk about the war in terms of primitive and supremacy. It's probably something else. Deeper and in another way. This is about approach to the whole philosophy of life. To the priorities. Do you choose as a target self improvement, upgrading all available means, or rather the refinement of art of hunting and fighting. Or do you bet on technology as a subject or object.
I don't know whether the BSP sees OSP as primitive. It's possible. But it's not the point. People in his eyes will also look primitive, but he sees potential in them an equal preys. But war it's not hunting. War it's something much more serious. And we should look at roots of problem. This problem IMHO it's way of life. Philosophy of hunting. Philosophy of evolution. Or evolution of philosophy. No matter, how we call it.

Eh? hmmm well im with Keylight here i believe with the BSP its something that sin the heart, like a grudge or sweet revenge or something. Cant specify what cuz i have no clue whats being talked about here im too lazy to look back  :P

Quote from: ShadowStalker on Apr 03, 2010, 02:09:15 AM

Quote from: keylight-di on Apr 02, 2010, 04:11:53 PM
I'm not sure if we can we talk about the war in terms of primitive and supremacy. It's probably something else. Deeper and in another way. This is about approach to the whole philosophy of life. To the priorities. Do you choose as a target self improvement, upgrading all available means, or rather the refinement of art of hunting and fighting. Or do you bet on technology as a subject or object.
I don't know whether the BSP sees OSP as primitive. It's possible. But it's not the point. People in his eyes will also look primitive, but he sees potential in them an equal preys. But war it's not hunting. War it's something much more serious. And we should look at roots of problem. This problem IMHO it's way of life. Philosophy of hunting. Philosophy of evolution. Or evolution of philosophy. No matter, how we call it.

Eh? hmmm well im with Keylight here i believe with the BSP its something that sin the heart, like a grudge or sweet revenge or something...

Yeah, I think so too.

Quote from: keylight-di on Apr 02, 2010, 04:11:53 PM
I'm not sure if we can we talk about the war in terms of primitive and supremacy. It's probably something else. Deeper and in another way. This is about approach to the whole philosophy of life. To the priorities. Do you choose as a target self improvement, upgrading all available means, or rather the refinement of art of hunting and fighting. Or do you bet on technology as a subject or object.
I don't know whether the BSP sees OSP as primitive. It's possible. But it's not the point. People in his eyes will also look primitive, but he sees potential in them an equal preys. But war it's not hunting. War it's something much more serious. And we should look at roots of problem. This problem IMHO it's way of life. Philosophy of hunting. Philosophy of evolution. Or evolution of philosophy. No matter, how we call it.

the super preds look more primative than the origanal.

I think they look more...raw.
If my eyes isn't playing tricks with me, it looks like BSP chest plates are going into his skinn, like under his flesh...he's a Predator "borg" ;D, part predator/part machine...

Quote from: Milan on Apr 12, 2010, 01:45:52 AM
I think they look more...raw.
If my eyes isn't playing tricks with me, it looks like BSP chest plates are going into his skinn, like under his flesh...he's a Predator "borg" ;D, part predator/part machine...

That would be painful

QuoteIf my eyes isn't playing tricks with me, it looks like BSP chest plates are going into his skinn, like under his flesh...

I see their chests normal. And the armor's out of it.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi825.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz171%2F08mkartin%2Fflusherbird.jpg&hash=3832dd84cacdef51dcde51f25cdce2ce3c3057d7)

Quote from: 08yeyinde on Apr 12, 2010, 10:52:36 AM

QuoteIf my eyes isn't playing tricks with me, it looks like BSP chest plates are going into his skinn, like under his flesh...

I see their chests normal. And the armor's out of it.

http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz171/08mkartin/flusherbird.jpg

Look at his stomach, it looks like his gear goes over his belly and under the skinn on his chest...or is it a scar?

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi159.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft146%2Fsoulya%2Fweb%2F20091012%2Fsetpictures010.jpg&hash=639d9c1867ed187d8b9f5142359729216e9c5bf1)

Looks like some straps to me. But as I see they are still on not in the body itself.

Well, I'm not really sure what I'm seeing, guess we or I are in need of more info and better pictures...

Really.... the armour doesn't go under the skin. The cellphone pictures are too poor to tell, but... really?

u all have it wrong with the self destruct part saying its dishonourable because they have a rule that says they have to activate it to avoid capture if imminent because they cannot allow the humans to get that technology

There ain't no such rule that's been established in the films. Expanded Universe Canon and Film Canon are separate until the rules of the expanded universe cross over.

Quote from: Milan on Mar 23, 2010, 03:33:19 AM

Quote from: Sylizar on Mar 23, 2010, 02:59:08 AM

QuoteKilling while cloaked is against the code and punishable by death if the Predator gets caught doing it.

That's pretty stupid. Anytime did that numerous times, as did Pussyface.

Well, they are allowed to kill while being cloaked while their presence is known, or if someone is in their way while they are going in for the kill of their selected target.
Like the train scene, everyone with a gun standing between "lone ranger" and "Pussyface" can be killed while being cloaked.

It's all in the code.
And most the code is based of Anytimes actions in the movie.

Here it is...

Rule 5. Never kill while cloaked.
It is very dishonorable for a Hunter to kill
prey while he is cloaked. It ignores all laws of
fair and honorable hunting, and giving
the prey a fighting chance. A Predator
who is discovered doing this is usually
banished from the Clan, and is
considered fair game for other Hunters.
The only exception with this is to
"remove" anything standing between the
Hunter and his prey, or if a creature
attacks the Hunter that he is not
Hunting.

Quote

i would agree but, if that the case when he accepted arnie's challege he walked in camoflauged, its just a quinsidense arnie saww him and shot that boom arrow, so your predator wasent following the rule.

There ain't any code.

Quote from: ShadowPred on Apr 13, 2010, 10:34:38 PM
There ain't any code.

This....

The Predator is a Hunter first, the honor part simply plays on it's ego. It's like a cat playing with a dead mouse, for shits and giggles.

Why do samurai commit suicide? to preserve honor!
this hunter, is an expanding concept from which we can only assume things about, what is cannon to the story and what is? how do we decide, the movies, game, books ect.
the original creators just invented this intergalactic hunter, so its their right to decide whats cannon or not, so if you see honor and bad blood in the bbooks and comic what makes them any different from the P2,Avp, and AvpR or any game for that matter. I DO belive they have a code of honor, the fact is that they arent runnig around with a plasma machine gun to kill humans proves it, they prefer using primeval weopns: knives, disks all sharp close range weopons against  say a guy with a gatling gun? i say their a sense of honor their. I think all sources expand on the predator culture (to exeption of course), if they make something that kindoff fits correctly into their culture than thats acceptable. in AVP what is considered "right of passage", honor from killing an alien, hence mark themselves like humans did to show the honor of defeating their foes. and at the end of P2, the pred hand him a colt, HAVE you ever considered he got that from having a western duel? a code of honor in western time to settle a challege. if they have plasma bassed weopons they could easily make a rifle that could hit a target miles of, what honor is they in that. the methods they have shown proves they have a complex systems with exeptions and forgiveness, that until (or if ever) reveiled, one shouldent jump to the conclusion of no honor.

PS hass anyone wondered how this thread got so off topic????

As I've said so many times.... When you're looking for what's cannon in regards to the movies, you can only include things seen in the movies themselves... No directors commentaries, no books, no comics....  Just what everyone sees on the screen. General audience members wont know anything outside of the movies so that's all that matters...

Exactly, and what most people agree on is that the expanded universe (games, comics, etc.) are not considered to be canon. The only thing that is canon is what is established in the movies. Why the hell do you think there is no such thing as a praetorian? Cus it ain't canon, not until some jackass decides to bring it over to the films.

QuoteWhy do samurai commit suicide? to preserve honor!

there is alot of reasons why people commit suicide, hell in present day people do it but not for honour.

just because predators kill themselves doesnt mean it has anything to do with honour.

the honour theme on predators is BS to me,

predators are evil intergalactic aliens and thats why the first 2 predator films are good.

I used to incorporate the idea of honor in the pred films, nowadays I don't do that anymore because I realised how dumb it is, but if one wants to incorporate it, it sure does fit, but don't f**king give me any bullshit about rules. The rules were thought up after some guy saw the movies a billion times and then proceeded on saying that their rules go from don't kill children to don't kill pregnant women and so on.

Quote from: ShadowPred on Apr 14, 2010, 02:15:39 PM
I used to incorporate the idea of honor in the pred films, nowadays I don't do that anymore because I realised how dumb it is, but if one wants to incorporate it, it sure does fit, but don't f**king give me any bullshit about rules. The rules were thought up after some guy saw the movies a billion times and then proceeded on saying that their rules go from don't kill children to don't kill pregnant women and so on.

i just like seing them as sadistic killers, if you watch the first 2 that definately fits.

but in AvP its like wahh? these arent predators

Well they aren't JUST sadistic killers, but yeah.

Quote from: ShadowPred on Apr 14, 2010, 02:24:26 PM
Well they aren't JUST sadistic killers, but yeah.

i mean thats like they're memo, they enjoy killing as a sport.

Quote from: Doomofman on Apr 13, 2010, 10:53:24 PM
As I've said so many times.... When you're looking for what's cannon in regards to the movies, you can only include things seen in the movies themselves... No directors commentaries, no books, no comics....  Just what everyone sees on the screen. General audience members wont know anything outside of the movies so that's all that matters...

Completely right. If there are some rules, then in very primal shape. More like guidelines than rules pre se, and I`d consider only one about pregnancy (in order to preserve species for future hunts). Rest is BS IMO.

Predators = Big game hunters, not samurai

where is the honour in killing an intelligent, sentient being simply as game? theres no honour in that. its simply evil. preds are bad guys, and the hunters are probably the rejects of society.

Once again, there's no such thing as honor for the preds in the films.

Quote from: ShadowPred on Apr 14, 2010, 11:46:12 PM
Once again, there's no such thing as honor for the preds in the films.

Nope... It may be hinted at a little in the 2 movies but until it's shown clearly it can't really be said to exist... And Predators will show that even if some Preds have some honor... Others don't

The "honor" discussion is something us fans have been discussing for years,
I think it has with the word "honor" has different meanings to different individuals.

I myself are trying to distance myself lately for using that word, when talking about the Predator and what the motives behind some of their actions on screen.

If I should explain the Predator with focus on the code that makes them honorable,
Then I would say that they are following a code of conduct that they value higher than life itself.

One thing that many seem to look past is that the Predator in the comics is built and expanded from the first Predator (Anytime) seen in the movies. And the later Predators seen in the movies have been following the comics pretty well.

That the Predators had a set of rules who they followed during a hunt(code of conduct), that they travelled alone or in a group where they had a leader, that they hunted solo or in groups, that the alien was considered prey...was all in the comics before Predator 2 hit the cinemas for the first time.

However, the movies doesn't have a Predator explaining this to the audience, there ain't a Predator who said that the Elder was the leader of that group of Predators in P2, they showed us that he was the leader same goes with everything else.

Quote from: ShadowPred on Apr 14, 2010, 02:15:39 PM
I used to incorporate the idea of honor in the pred films, nowadays I don't do that anymore because I realised how dumb it is, but if one wants to incorporate it, it sure does fit, but don't f**king give me any bullshit about rules. The rules were thought up after some guy saw the movies a billion times and then proceeded on saying that their rules go from don't kill children to don't kill pregnant women and so on.

The Predator went to that jungle with a purpose and had specific targets in mind, he didn't kill every being he laid his eyes on, first he did the rebels, then he went after the Green Berets after that he took on Dutches team.

The rules ppl are talking about are based on Anytimes actions in the movie and Anna's story about the one they called "Cazador de trofeos". "the demon who makes trophies out of men"(Some rules have been added and expanded in and because of Predator 2.)

That they don't kill children or pregnant women is based on the "No sport" line backed up with the simple fact that if the Predator killed men, women and children then Anna would have expressed it in her story to Dutch. She made pretty clear on who the Predator targeted,
think about what the men in her village were, their roles, they were armed rebels,
potential and most likely qualified prey for the hunter.

So pretty much it's what MASTER said on the previous page. There may not be a code or a set of rules, but these things fall along a sort of guideline to follow. That's what I'll agree on, they're just guidelines.

Quote from: ShadowPred on Apr 15, 2010, 04:45:21 AM
So pretty much it's what MASTER said on the previous page. There may not be a code or a set of rules, but these things fall along a sort of guideline to follow. That's what I'll agree on, they're just guidelines.

Yes, I understand you...but the thing that makes it hard for me 2 get along the theory that they're just following a sort of guideline, is that it doesn't sound like it's that serious to them...
That they're just on "jerking around" on earth, then they go and commit sueside upon both failour and defeat...it doesn't make any sense...
...it's like something one would see in a parody...like space balls or Life of Brian.

But then again, maybe the word "guidelines" has a different meaning and impact for me, every time I hear it it reminds me about a scene in Pirates of the Caribbean.
When adding the phrase "...more like guidelines"  then I don't see the faces of two grim hunters called Anytime and Pussyface,
I see the faces of two goofy pirates called Pintel and Ragetti giggling to this conversation...

"Elizabeth: Wait! You have to take me to shore. According to the Code of the Order of the Brethren...
Barbossa: First, your return to shore was not part of our negotiations nor our agreement so I must do nothing.
And secondly, you must be a pirate for the pirate's code to apply and you're not.
And thirdly, the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules. Welcome aboard the Black Pearl, Miss Turner ...HA Ha ha"

Quote

QuoteQuote

    Why do samurai commit suicide? to preserve honor!

there is alot of reasons why people commit suicide, hell in present day people do it but not for honour.

In this special case mostly it's for honor as I know (which honor includes things we wouldn't call that). just to mention.
But why are preds referred to as samurai... it's a mistery for me (aside from the honor parallel)

I don't see why rules and honour are bound together. It is totally possible to have rules and yet don't hit the requirment  'honorable'. It all depends on the rules themselves.
I think mostly rules are based on guidelines. Only that guidelines are not solid things, as they are not recorded. So they can be altered easily by a witty individual and right circumstances. This time when a pred is hunting on his own, guideline means that he depends on his own sense of righ and wrong. So basically nothing, but  choice of an individual.
I think they have rules, which are based on the values the species allow to itself. And then these rules become the guidelines each clan can make up their own 'creed'. Slightly different clan by clan, but still has the common values of the species. And based on this the hunt can be controlled somehow.
Not with sense of honour, but sense of reason. I doubt preds are just sadistic, evil creatures, just because they hunt.

the way predators think they're honourable hunters is similar to the way prison gangmembers think they're "warriors" with a code of honour, it's mostly bravado

they're not honourable by "proper" human standards, only according to themselves

Quote from: 08yeyinde on Apr 15, 2010, 05:23:50 PM
I don't see why rules and honour are bound together. It is totally possible to have rules and yet don't hit the requirment  'honorable'.

I think when rules cross into honor is when following those rules fosters a sense of superiority, and when the rules incorporate a sense of "fairplay"

in the books predators only hunt prey capable of hunting them back, but even in the books a lot of the younger predators ignore that rule

in the movies it seems that predators hunt whatever is armed

either version of this main rule incorporates fairness, but are by no means 100% fair, that's why i think the predators are only quasi-honourable

What fairness? It`s like hitting blind pupp with shovel. Of course he can bite you, but at first he is blind and his teeth ain`t long enough to truly harm you. Same situation is with Preds and Humans.

Quote from: Master on Apr 15, 2010, 07:13:23 PM
What fairness? It`s like hitting blind pupp with shovel. Of course he can bite you, but at first he is blind and his teeth ain`t long enough to truly harm you. Same situation is with Preds and Humans.

a predator wouldn't attack a human with a toothpick, he would attack a human with a sword, a blow with a sword would f**k up a predator if it landed

I don't think you've actually read what I wrote, like I said:
the way predators think they're honourable hunters is similar to the way prison gangmembers think they're "warriors" with a code of honour, it's mostly bravado

they're not honourable by "proper" human standards, only according to themselves

I think when rules cross into honor is when following those rules fosters a sense of superiority, and when the rules incorporate a sense of "fairplay"

in the books predators only hunt prey capable of hunting them back, but even in the books a lot of the younger predators ignore that rule

in the movies it seems that predators hunt whatever is armed

either version of this main rule incorporates fairness, but are by no means 100% fair, that's why i think the predators are only quasi-honourable

Quoteeither version of this main rule incorporates fairness, but are by no means 100% fair, that's why i think the predators are only quasi-honourable

Nothing is 100% fair. preds are hunters, it assmues they know hunter is always the one superior. If they wanted any fairness, they wouldn't use that advanced technology against. Though there's a point in picking the prey to be more poweful, and then even let it have more chance. But it's not for the prey, not to make it equal. hunter and prey is never equal.

Quotein the movies it seems that predators hunt whatever is armed

armed and willing to provoke or join in a fight, hence extremely dangerous in its own enviroment, as I saw.

Quote from: Master on Apr 15, 2010, 07:13:23 PM
What fairness? It`s like hitting blind pupp with shovel. Of course he can bite you, but at first he is blind and his teeth ain`t long enough to truly harm you. Same situation is with Preds and Humans.

Rather a teenager with a shovel. But not blind. And let's make it that the shovel can blow you up with one swing. You make a wrong move and you're dead.

do you guys think that I'm saying predators are truly honourable in the ideal sense of the word?

do you guys know a lot of samurai and knights killed peasants? 

can you say the rule of hunting dangerous game incorporates no sense of fairplay whatsoever?

of course predators keep an advantage, that's why I think they're only quasi-honourable

all I'm saying is that I think the predators view their rules as more than just rules, given their incredible arrogance, I think there's a sense of honour and machismo involved even if it's hypocritical in many places 

I think my theory explains what we've seen in the movies, I'm not saying that no alternate explanation is valid . . .

Quotedo you guys think that I'm saying predators are truly honourable in the ideal sense of the word?

No, I totally understood you ( I hope). I just added my thoughts. It wasn't a criticism.

Quote from: Master on Apr 15, 2010, 07:13:23 PM
What fairness? It`s like hitting blind pupp with shovel. Of course he can bite you, but at first he is blind and his teeth ain`t long enough to truly harm you. Same situation is with Preds and Humans.

It really depends on how the blind puppy fairs against other pups, is it tearing them apart in a manner that it would make you view it as a threat?

And I don't think that Dutch and his team posed the same threat to the Predator as a gang of blind puppies would pose to you or me...
And I'm not even a hunter used to kill animals...
Still I think they wouldn't be any threat to me.
I would bring one home, give it to my girl friend cause it's cute and vulnerable.

lol

honour is for warriors not hunters,

how is it honourable killling an an unwary, inferior animal just for shits and giggles?

Quote from: Dark Passenger on Apr 25, 2010, 10:51:26 AM
honour is for warriors not hunters,

how is it honourable killling an an unwary, inferior animal just for shits and giggles?

I haven't seen anything in movies, games or comics that says that they are hunting for just shit and giggles.
And to answer your question...
The Predator hanging up skinned body's for you to find is a way to make sure that you'll know he's there, then he might let his laser sight slowly travel up your chest so that you'll know that you're in his aim, this may be things they do to make sure that you ain't unwary about them being there. If you're unable to read the signs...well it ain't really their fault.

And because you're an inferior animal they'll decide to kill you quickly, like with an ranged attack with the plasma caster...
The result is that you suffer less and that would also make them honorable.

They might use their net gun but it's very painfull and the game has been given a slow death, a honourable predator would end the suffering, like killing the prey before the net does it for him.

A Predator going after prey that are armed and aggressive is also honorable,
Cause they don't want to take the life from someone who ain't capable of defending it.

We can only speculate on their motives, collecting trophies is one, but they commit sueside if they fail to collect the trophy and that tells me that there's more to their hunt than just shit and giggles.
Even if they are sore losers.

I myself hate too lose, I rather win.
I often play UFC 2009 for "shit and giggles", sometimes I lose in what I'm trying to do, like win the fight by submission or reach a decision victory in a 5 round fight, when that happens I'll try again.

Now picture me committing sueside because my CPU opponent on the easy difficult caught me in a submission while I was aiming to do it to him...
Would you really say that I was just a gamer, playing the game for "shit and giggles"?

As much as I'd love to say anything relevant, I can't. I'm having too much fun picturing a Predator giggling.

Quote from: Milan on Apr 25, 2010, 06:40:57 PM

Quote from: Dark Passenger on Apr 25, 2010, 10:51:26 AM
honour is for warriors not hunters,

how is it honourable killling an an unwary, inferior animal just for shits and giggles?

I haven't seen anything in movies, games or comics that says that they are hunting for just shit and giggles.
And to answer your question...
The Predator hanging up skinned body's for you to find is a way to make sure that you'll know he's there, then he might let his laser sight slowly travel up your chest so that you'll know that you're in his aim, this may be things they do to make sure that you ain't unwary about them being there. If you're unable to read the signs...well it ain't really their fault.

And because you're an inferior animal they'll decide to kill you quickly, like with an ranged attack with the plasma caster...
The result is that you suffer less and that would also make them honorable.

They might use their net gun but it's very painfull and the game has been given a slow death, a honourable predator would end the suffering, like killing the prey before the net does it for him.

A Predator going after prey that are armed and aggressive is also honorable,
Cause they don't want to take the life from someone who ain't capable of defending it.

We can only speculate on their motives, collecting trophies is one, but they commit sueside if they fail to collect the trophy and that tells me that there's more to their hunt than just shit and giggles.
Even if they are sore losers.

I myself hate too lose, I rather win.
I often play UFC 2009 for "shit and giggles", sometimes I lose in what I'm trying to do, like win the fight by submission or reach a decision victory in a 5 round fight, when that happens I'll try again.

Now picture me committing sueside because my CPU opponent on the easy difficult caught me in a submission while I was aiming to do it to him...
Would you really say that I was just a gamer, playing the game for "shit and giggles"?

you obviously dont understand what i am saying, there is a difference between a straight up 1 on 1 fight and being basicaly invisible and snipering people off.

how is it honourable being close to invisible and basically killing them off when they are unaware.

if a predator were to fight for honour they would straight up uncloak infront off their enemy and fight them on even terms, not shoot or stab them with their backs turned.

oh and last time i checked in UFC you dont kill your enemies so i dont see how that relates to anything being said. UFC is 1 on 1 fights not stealth killing people

Quote from: Dark Passenger on Apr 26, 2010, 05:09:11 AM

Quote from: Milan on Apr 25, 2010, 06:40:57 PM

Quote from: Dark Passenger on Apr 25, 2010, 10:51:26 AM
honour is for warriors not hunters,

how is it honourable killling an an unwary, inferior animal just for shits and giggles?

I haven't seen anything in movies, games or comics that says that they are hunting for just shit and giggles.
And to answer your question...
The Predator hanging up skinned body's for you to find is a way to make sure that you'll know he's there, then he might let his laser sight slowly travel up your chest so that you'll know that you're in his aim, this may be things they do to make sure that you ain't unwary about them being there. If you're unable to read the signs...well it ain't really their fault.

And because you're an inferior animal they'll decide to kill you quickly, like with an ranged attack with the plasma caster...
The result is that you suffer less and that would also make them honorable.

They might use their net gun but it's very painfull and the game has been given a slow death, a honourable predator would end the suffering, like killing the prey before the net does it for him.

A Predator going after prey that are armed and aggressive is also honorable,
Cause they don't want to take the life from someone who ain't capable of defending it.

We can only speculate on their motives, collecting trophies is one, but they commit sueside if they fail to collect the trophy and that tells me that there's more to their hunt than just shit and giggles.
Even if they are sore losers.

I myself hate too lose, I rather win.
I often play UFC 2009 for "shit and giggles", sometimes I lose in what I'm trying to do, like win the fight by submission or reach a decision victory in a 5 round fight, when that happens I'll try again.

Now picture me committing sueside because my CPU opponent on the easy difficult caught me in a submission while I was aiming to do it to him...
Would you really say that I was just a gamer, playing the game for "shit and giggles"?

you obviously dont understand what i am saying, there is a difference between a straight up 1 on 1 fight and being basicaly invisible and snipering people off.

how is it honourable being close to invisible and basically killing them off when they are unaware.

if a predator were to fight for honour they would straight up uncloak infront off their enemy and fight them on even terms, not shoot or stab them with their backs turned.

oh and last time i checked in UFC you dont kill your enemies so i dont see how that relates to anything being said. UFC is 1 on 1 fights not stealth killing people

i would say predators have a different sense of honor its more like a guideline than honor a rule which must be followed the only reason why i think they give themselves such an advantage over their prey is because they think every species they hunt is inferior to them and the guidlines that are meant to be followed are already  a burden on them. Predators think that they are the perfect living organism due to their technological advancment the only prey which truly rivals them is the xenomorph which is also classified as the perfect organism in the alien franchise. Back to what i was saying if we look at the subway seen in predator 2 were he kill i believe 2 elderly woman who are armed now to any predator he doesn't care if its an elderly human that fact that its armed is ok to kill and must be killed and the grave yard seen were the boy is playing with his toy gun if the predator didnt scan the gun he would have probably killed him and im sure the predator knew it was an infant. At the end of the movie when harrigan kills the pred it was more like an initiation/burial ceremony lol harrigan proved him self to be a challenge for the predator species when he is given the weapon by the elder predator it was more of a guildline than honor, like a trophy for harrigan to put on his wall to remember the predator clan

^ just sounds like you are just making assumptions and filling in what you want.

no-where in the first 2 films, especially the first does it blatantly say or reference that the predators are killing with honour in mind.

This is what anytime got to say about the whole honor thing

Quote from: Dark Passenger on Apr 26, 2010, 08:31:16 AM
^ just sounds like you are just making assumptions and filling in what you want.

no-where in the first 2 films, especially the first does it blatantly say or reference that the predators are killing with honour in mind.

i didn't mean that i meant they do it mainly as a guidline or ritual, a right, the more trophies the higher status you get all i was saying is that honor rules status rank whatever u wanna call it is what matters to them but they also wanna do things properly by the rules

u mistook me by claiming its honor

Quote from: Dark Passenger on Apr 26, 2010, 05:09:11 AM

Quote from: Milan on Apr 25, 2010, 06:40:57 PM

Quote from: Dark Passenger on Apr 25, 2010, 10:51:26 AM
honour is for warriors not hunters,

how is it honourable killling an an unwary, inferior animal just for shits and giggles?

I haven't seen anything in movies, games or comics that says that they are hunting for just shit and giggles.
And to answer your question...
The Predator hanging up skinned body's for you to find is a way to make sure that you'll know he's there, then he might let his laser sight slowly travel up your chest so that you'll know that you're in his aim, this may be things they do to make sure that you ain't unwary about them being there. If you're unable to read the signs...well it ain't really their fault.

And because you're an inferior animal they'll decide to kill you quickly, like with an ranged attack with the plasma caster...
The result is that you suffer less and that would also make them honorable.

They might use their net gun but it's very painfull and the game has been given a slow death, a honourable predator would end the suffering, like killing the prey before the net does it for him.

A Predator going after prey that are armed and aggressive is also honorable,
Cause they don't want to take the life from someone who ain't capable of defending it.

We can only speculate on their motives, collecting trophies is one, but they commit sueside if they fail to collect the trophy and that tells me that there's more to their hunt than just shit and giggles.
Even if they are sore losers.

I myself hate too lose, I rather win.
I often play UFC 2009 for "shit and giggles", sometimes I lose in what I'm trying to do, like win the fight by submission or reach a decision victory in a 5 round fight, when that happens I'll try again.

Now picture me committing sueside because my CPU opponent on the easy difficult caught me in a submission while I was aiming to do it to him...
Would you really say that I was just a gamer, playing the game for "shit and giggles"?

you obviously dont understand what i am saying, there is a difference between a straight up 1 on 1 fight and being basicaly invisible and snipering people off.

how is it honourable being close to invisible and basically killing them off when they are unaware.

if a predator were to fight for honour they would straight up uncloak infront off their enemy and fight them on even terms, not shoot or stab them with their backs turned.

Well, I picture Dutch as being a honorable dude, by his actions and by his values.
Still he made himself invisible when calling out the Predator, the mud made him invisible but when he applied it to his body it wasn't a choice made because of honor, it was strategy, it was camouflage.
And it didn't make him dishonorable.

The Predator uses his cloak for the same reason the hunter is using camouflage or why the lioness is hiding in the grass while hunting, it's to get close enough to the prey without them noticing it.
Being honorable and being fair is far from the same thing.

And hunting have never been about a "straight up 1 on 1 fight", the hunter have always used methods to trick his prey, everything from using camouflage to smearing himself in shit so that he may get close enough  or the kill without being detected. The honor part in hunting can be found in the ammo the hunter uses or if he would spare the animal he's about to kill cause it had babies who wouldn't survive without it's help...

I think that many people missunderstand the whole honor thing with the predator,
They are hunters using stealth as a way to get close to their prey, to avoid detection.
Both Pussyface and Anytime used their cloak for that reason.
It really doesn't have anything to do with honor but if they choose to "honor" their prey by eating their still beating heart then some would say that they are honorable, others would call them f**king mental.

Quoteoh and last time i checked in UFC you dont kill your enemies so i dont see how that relates to anything being said. UFC is 1 on 1 fights not stealth killing people

You need to read what I wrote again and you'll see my point.

QuoteIt really doesn't have anything to do with honor but if they choose to "honor" their prey by eating their still beating heart then some would say that they are honorable, others would call them f**king mental.

hmm. where in the films does it show the predators doing this? you have no proof of what you are saying!

you are making assumptions, filling in the gaps. thats all, maybe if the predators actually could talk and say that he is hunting for honour than you'd have a point but its shown in the films that they just seem to hunt, stalk and slaughter people with no real motive, youre just speculating so please stop talking likes its hard fact.

Quote from: Dark Passenger on Apr 27, 2010, 06:12:38 AM

QuoteIt really doesn't have anything to do with honor but if they choose to "honor" their prey by eating their still beating heart then some would say that they are honorable, others would call them f**king mental.

hmm. where in the films does it show the predators doing this? you have no proof of what you are saying!

you are making assumptions, filling in the gaps. thats all, maybe if the predators actually could talk and say that he is hunting for honour than you'd have a point but its shown in the films that they just seem to hunt, stalk and slaughter people with no real motive, youre just speculating so please stop talking likes its hard fact.

I was trying to explain this in a way that would make it easy for you to understand.

You want hard proof of honor, okay.

They don't slaughter people, they hunt big game.
They arrive when it's season, season being when it's hot and during an armed conflict,
Among the combatants  is were they find their prey, the prey needs not only to be armed but it also needs to be willing to use it's weapon with deadly force. The prey is never a single individual, they go after a group of people, may it be green berets, rebels, a hostage rescue team, Jamaican or Colombian gangsters or a police team.
Their motive for hunting is the trophies, they collect trophies from the individuals who stand out within the group they are hunting, not every game taken down ends up as a trophy, just the special ones.
They are not only hunters, they are big game hunters, who follow a pattern,
that pattern can be referred as them following a code, guideline or values.
The pattern:

* The Hunter arrive at location when the temperature meets their standard and when it's a armed conflict going on in the region.

* The hunter then examens the combatans within the region to find worthy game.

* Once the big game have been found the hunter goes in for the kill,
The first kill have always been a stealth kill and the prey would be skinned and left hanging for others to find. If the body is removed from the scene then the hunter will claim it back.
After that the hunter picks the team apart in whatever way that suits him best, the special ones within the team become trophies. Most victims are found hung up, skinned.

* If the hunter is challenged and faces defeat in combat or admitting being hunted as prey then he'll commit suicide.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
About HONOR:

In contemporary international relations, the concept of "credibility" resembles that of honour, as when the credibility of a state or of an alliance appears to be at stake, and honour-bound politicians call for drastic measures.

In ancient China during the Warring States period, honor in battle was one of the many forms of virtue practiced by the nobility. In a battle, Duke Xiang of the Song state, instead of of giving the enemy a surprise attack, he waited for the enemy to go across the river in order to be a real Ren (仁) gentleman. Mao Zedong once said about Duke Xiang's humanity in war: "We are not Duke Xiang of Song and have no use for his idiotic virtue and morality"

In ancient Japan, honour was always seen as almost a duty by Samurai. When one lost their honour or the situation made them lose it, the only way to save their dignity was by death. Seppuku (vulgarly called "harakiri," or "belly-cutting") was the most honourable death in that situation. The only way for a Samurai to die more honourably was to be killed in a battle by a sword.

Traditionally, in Western society, honour figured largely as a guiding principle. A man's honour, that of his wife, his family or his beloved, formed an all-important issue: the archetypal "man of honour" remained ever alert for any insult, actual or suspected: for either would impugn his honour.

An honor code or honor system is a set of rules or principles governing a community based on a set of rules or ideals that define what constitutes honorable behavior within that community. The use of an honor code depends on the idea that people (at least within the community) can be trusted to act honorably. Those who are in violation of the honor code can be subject to various sanctions, including expulsion from the institution.

A similar concept with many connotations opposite to honour is shame.

HONOR, HUNTING and GAME:
As hunting moved from a subsistence activity to a social one, two trends emerged. One was that of the specialist hunter with special training and equipment. The other was the emergence of hunting as a sport for those of an upper social class. The meaning of the word "game" in middle English evolved to include an animal which is hunted.

As game became more of a luxury than a necessity, the stylized pursuit of it also became a luxury. Dangerous hunting, as for lions or wild boars was considered to be an honourable, somewhat competitive pastime to help the aristocracy practice skills of war in times of peace.
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I can't understand how any person can't see honor in the Predators actions.
I'm not saying that you should look at it from the Preys perspective but from the hunters.
And you have to remember that WHEN they go to earth they do it as BIG GAME HUNTERS during HUNTING SEASON.

^ how does patterns and common sense contribute to honour?

we can do the same, we hunt during certain seasons and in certain climate to kill the 'big one' but the bottom line is that we dont it for no real purpose other than our own entertainment and gain.

QuoteYou want hard proof of honor, okay.

QuoteThey don't slaughter people, they hunt big game.
They arrive when it's season, season being when it's hot and during an armed conflict,
Among the combatants  is were they find their prey, the prey needs not only to be armed but it also needs to be willing to use it's weapon with deadly force. The prey is never a single individual, they go after a group of people, may it be green berets, rebels, a hostage rescue team, Jamaican or Colombian gangsters or a police team.
Their motive for hunting is the trophies, they collect trophies from the individuals who stand out within the group they are hunting, not every game taken down ends up as a trophy, just the special ones.
They are not only hunters, they are big game hunters, who follow a pattern,
that pattern can be referred as them following a code, guideline or values.

still dont undertand what you are trying to say, a goddamn serial killer could stalk and slaughter a dozen people but does that mean he has honour in mind? no cause he just enjoys the hell out of killing and taking trophies.

QuoteIf the hunter is challenged and faces defeat in combat or admitting being hunted as prey then he'll commit suicide.

this can be debated, if he just wanted to simply commit suicide they could just stab themselves with their wristblades but since they seem to activate there wrist bomb when they're enemy is very close to them this can be see as a sinister act or a last ditch effort to kill them, note anytimes laughter when he activates it right near Dutch

Quote from: Dark Passenger on Apr 29, 2010, 02:18:56 AM
^ how does patterns and common sense contribute to honour?

They just do, people think that honor is something big and complicated but it's not.
Like when the Predator doesn't kill the woman because she is pregnant or the boy cause his gun was fake.

You can come up with 1000 reasons why we shouldn't hunt an animal who is carrying a baby inside,
why WE have hunting seasons is just one of those reasons.
If one has values, like a view on what's right and wrong and goes for what one think it's right, then you have proof of honor.

The Predator didn't find the boy a threat, nor did he find the baby inside of that woman a threat,
They didn't qualify as worthy game, they need to be able to hurt the Predator, to put his life in danger to be considered worthy game, big game.
There you have the view on right and wrong, the Predator is a big game hunter, hunting prey not qualifying as big game, is wrong, it's against their character.
Having views on what's right or wrong and going for what's right is honorable, for the one who has the view.

Quote

QuoteThey don't slaughter people, they hunt big game.
They arrive when it's season, season being when it's hot and during an armed conflict,
Among the combatants  is were they find their prey, the prey needs not only to be armed but it also needs to be willing to use it's weapon with deadly force. The prey is never a single individual, they go after a group of people, may it be green berets, rebels, a hostage rescue team, Jamaican or Colombian gangsters or a police team.
Their motive for hunting is the trophies, they collect trophies from the individuals who stand out within the group they are hunting, not every game taken down ends up as a trophy, just the special ones.
They are not only hunters, they are big game hunters, who follow a pattern,
that pattern can be referred as them following a code, guideline or values.

still dont undertand what you are trying to say, a goddamn serial killer could stalk and slaughter a dozen people but does that mean he has honour in mind? no cause he just enjoys the hell out of killing and taking trophies.

The Predator is just as much of a serial killer as a 40 year old postman going out in the woods to shoot bear when it's hunting season. If he finds a bear who has two baby bears with her and decides not to kill them all, then that hunter has honor.

Quote

QuoteIf the hunter is challenged and faces defeat in combat or admitting being hunted as prey then he'll commit suicide.

this can be debated, if he just wanted to simply commit suicide they could just stab themselves with their wristblades but since they seem to activate there wrist bomb when they're enemy is very close to them this can be see as a sinister act or a last ditch effort to kill them, note anytimes laughter when he activates it right near Dutch

The Predators are here to win, their honor demands it, he'll die trying but it doesn't mean that he'll spare his chosen prey, why? cause it would be shamefull. If possible he'll take his prey with him in life or in death, that kill will be his to claim, why cause his honor demands it. It ain't like he got a choice...
This is something that Pussyface proved, when he was hanging by the ledge with one arm on Harrigan and the other on the disc, he released his grip on the disc and activated his wrist bomb, he could have grabbed the ledge and pull himself up, but he felt like he already lost, he have been followed, hunted, if you are being hunted then you are the prey, not the hunter.
Honor is what made both Pussyface and Anytime activate their wristbombs, but only one of them was dying.

I feel that you might feel that if a Predator had a sense of honor...it would dishonor them.
And that's where the conflict is hidden.
Honor is something good but the Predator ain't a hero, he isn't good, he doesn't have good values cause he's slaughtering people like we are animals...

...But that's what we are to them, we are only animals just like the bear, the lion, the wild boar, we are nothing more than big game. Animals who are going to be hunted and end up in their head on their trophy wall.

u realise that the predators in the first 2 movies are honourable hunters right? they kill one at a time and not unarmed threats

^ Why did you dig this thread up? Theres a reason the argument ended and people left it alone.
Also thats not HONOR what the... Thats having fun and enjoying the killing and unarmed prey are no fun.
Also the Pred in P2 killed a large group all at once. That dissproves the first argument immediately.

This is old........

yea it is

So lets allow it to die now.

well we dont have to since we can have a normal discussion without anyone (hopefully) flaming it

Sooooo.....how's the weather?

Full of useless thread clouds. Im gone.

*crickets*

*crows*

Quote from: Cap. Fitzgerald on Aug 01, 2010, 04:06:36 AM

Quote from: chazo136 on Aug 01, 2010, 04:00:14 AM
u realise that the predators in the first 2 movies are honourable hunters right? they kill one at a time and not unarmed threats

^ Why did you dig this thread up? Theres a reason the argument ended and people left it alone.
Also thats not HONOR what the... Thats having fun and enjoying the killing and unarmed prey are no fun.
Also the Pred in P2 killed a large group all at once. That dissproves the first argument immediately.

It doesn't disprove the argument, not at all.
Pussyface killed those ppl "like" he was following the much controversial honor code, Predators having a code haven't been said as a fact in the movies, only shown.
Like no one have said that Harrigan cut of a Predators arm with it's own weapon, but we did see him do it.

What many people seem to forget is when the Predator apply his "honor" while hunting down and killing it's chosen prey is an act that makes them "bad guys".
They seem to enjoy what they do so that makes them even more evil or sadistic.
Still when the Jamaican in the Penthouse was introduced to the Predators Net gun he was suffering a slow death, but Pussyface finished him of before the net did...
...Now put yourself in the shoes of the Jamaican, do you think he'll be talking about the Predator as an heroic alien hunter guided by a sense of honor in the afterlife.
Their honor ain't the same as ours.

They ain't honorable samurai...

Honorable...huh, what a joke!


"Honor" would make a Samurai cut down a child just because the child, a son of a farmer didn't look down in the ground while the samurai passed by, the child made eye contact...
so was the Samurai really that honorable?
YES, among his own kind. That's why farmers, fishermen and pleasants were scared shitless of them, the child disrespected the samurai and honor forced the samurai to take a life.

A Predator would spare the child, for the same reason... honor.
The child wasn't worthy game, it was unarmed and not of age.
It would be dishonorable to kill it, like bad behavior on the Predators part.
But if the child was really sick, then he could eat it.
The child didn't stand a chance of reaching adulthood and maybe become a worthy prey in a future hunt,
So if the predator eat it, it would purify the species line and that's honorable according to them.

Quote from: Milan on Aug 01, 2010, 03:57:27 PM

Quote from: Cap. Fitzgerald on Aug 01, 2010, 04:06:36 AM

Quote from: chazo136 on Aug 01, 2010, 04:00:14 AM
u realise that the predators in the first 2 movies are honourable hunters right? they kill one at a time and not unarmed threats

^ Why did you dig this thread up? Theres a reason the argument ended and people left it alone.
Also thats not HONOR what the... Thats having fun and enjoying the killing and unarmed prey are no fun.
Also the Pred in P2 killed a large group all at once. That dissproves the first argument immediately.

It doesn't disprove the argument, not at all.
Pussyface killed those ppl "like" he was following the much controversial honor code, Predators having a code haven't been said as a fact in the movies, only shown.
Like no one have said that Harrigan cut of a Predators arm with it's own weapon, but we did see him do it.

What many people seem to forget is when the Predator apply his "honor" while hunting down and killing it's chosen prey is an act that makes them "bad guys".
They seem to enjoy what they do so that makes them even more evil or sadistic.
Still when the Jamaican in the Penthouse was introduced to the Predators Net gun he was suffering a slow death, but Pussyface finished him of before the net did...
...Now put yourself in the shoes of the Jamaican, do you think he'll be talking about the Predator as an heroic alien hunter guided by a sense of honor in the afterlife.
Their honor ain't the same as ours.

They ain't honorable samurai...

Honorable...huh, what a joke!


"Honor" would make a Samurai cut down a child just because the child, a son of a farmer didn't look down in the ground while the samurai passed by, the child made eye contact...
so was the Samurai really that honorable?
YES, among his own kind. That's why farmers, fishermen and pleasants were scared shitless of them, the child disrespected the samurai and honor forced the samurai to take a life.

A Predator would spare the child, for the same reason... honor.
The child wasn't worthy game, it was unarmed and not of age.
It would be dishonorable to kill it, like bad behavior on the Predators part.
But if the child was really sick, then he could eat it.
The child didn't stand a chance of reaching adulthood and maybe become a worthy prey in a future hunt,
So if the predator eat it, it would purify the species line and that's honorable according to them.

very well said

You realize you just agreed with me, right? But id rather not start another flame war. Anything either of us can say has already been said.

id rather not 4-6 pages of flaming to occur

Which is why we should let the thread die now. Its inevitable.

it will only get flamed when someone with a cocky attitude comes along about the whole thing

Well theres a whole lot of people like that around so.......
Its inevitable. Ima leave. As long as I don't get specifically mentioned, i wont post here anymore.

Quote from: Cap. Fitzgerald on Aug 01, 2010, 10:44:11 PM
Well theres a whole lot of people like that around so.......
Its inevitable. Ima leave. As long as I don't get specifically mentioned, i wont post here anymore.

I don't know if it matters to you, but you are more than welcome to post in this thread. I got nothing against it.
You got your opinions and you share them with respect, that's good.

There is no reason for this thread to die out, I made it before the movie and my concern was how they would make the old school predator look on screen, will he be a bad ass Hunter making Royce flee for his life or will he be a sucker who needs to be rescued like a princess and then go down after 3 headbutts...

I was worried about how Mr.R would honor Winstons (r.i.p) creation, will he stick to how the movies portraid the Predators called Anytime and Pussyface, superior sadistic hunters f**king ppl up during hunting season or will he shame them,
My opinion is that he killed them...
Not alone though, Anderson started it, the brothers followed and Mr. R finished it.
I know that they didn't do it on purpose, they just didn't take the time to try to understand the creature, it's motives and actions.
Like why did the Elder give Harrigan a gift after he killed Pussyface but Pussyface made Harrigan a target after he attacked the Colombians, both times Harrrigan proved that he could fight and kill his foe but why did the Predators respond differently?
This is just one question were the answer gives you an insight on what a Predator is, his relationship to us and its values.

^ Its just that after this thread went dormant the first time other threads like it were made. And they ALL broke out into flame wars. And since the movie is out and the question was answered its only going to be bait for more flame wars sadly. But if you want to keep the thread alive its cool. I just dont want to get caught up in any wars, should they arrive.