(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fempireonline.media%2Fjpg%2F70%2F0%2F0%2F1024%2F1024%2Faspectfit%2F0%2F0%2F0%2F0%2F0%2F0%2Fc%2Farticles%2F58f133cb4d0ff9a4194b9bed%2Fempire_alien_covenant_subscriber_1024.jpg&hash=a1b98d21000f09d07e2960f878bad0eedac39b0d)
Quote The queen is back... Ridley Scott soon returns to the Alien universe he began in 1979 with the latest instalment: Alien: Covenant. To mark the occasion, we've welcomed the iconic xenomorph back to the cover of the world's biggest movie magazine. As usual, Empire subscribers are getting their own limited edition design; here's what will be landing on their doormats this month.
Designed by graphic designer Jacey, the cover features Scott's fearful creature in gorgeously-designed embossed cardboard, featuring the famous quote from the original film: "Unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality..."
Subscribers should be getting their copies any day now; for the rest of you, the new issue of Empire arrives in all good and evil newsagents from Thursday 20 April, with that cover still to be revealed.
http://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/empire-alien-covenant-subscriber-exclusive-cover-revealed/ (http://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/empire-alien-covenant-subscriber-exclusive-cover-revealed/)
Avpgalaxy member Gazz has provided images from the magazine!! Via imgur!! http://m.imgur.com/a/FZZqP (http://m.imgur.com/a/FZZqP)
Jesus Christ that's some DeviantART level stuff. And not good DeviantART.
At least it has the Ash quote on there.
Geez you people are never satisfied. ::) :P
This is delicious.
Alien is king again. AvP:R was dark days. Dark days. We've endured the Batman & Robins, now it's our turn to experience some Batman Begins'.
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Apr 15, 2017, 12:33:32 AM
Geez you people are never satisfied. ::) :P
It's a bad picture, dude. If I'd kept my subscription to Empire I'd probably opt
not to get this. :P It's like a bad fan art of the cover of Giger's Alien, but in the style of the AvPR PredAlien poster.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 15, 2017, 12:37:25 AM
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Apr 15, 2017, 12:33:32 AM
Geez you people are never satisfied. ::) :P
It's a bad picture, dude. If I'd kept my subscription to Empire I'd probably opt not to get this. :P It's like a bad fan art of the cover of Giger's Alien, but in the style of the AvPR PredAlien poster.
There is another variant cover yet to be revealed!!
Also.... Notice it says the Queen is back?? Is there a queen in Covenant??
Honestly, it's fine. At least it isn't as bad as some of the Entertainment Weekly previews in the past.
I don't really hate the cover. It just has that been there done that kind of feel to it. They should've used an image from the movie.
Quote from: echobbase79 on Apr 15, 2017, 12:39:27 AM
I don't really hate the cover. It just has that been there done that kind of feel to it. They should've used an image from the movie.
There will be a second cover Reveal soon.
I'm not seeing the deviantART myself. But who reads or subscribes to Empire anymore?
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Apr 15, 2017, 12:38:26 AM
There is another variant cover yet to be revealed!!
Here's hoping it rocks :)
QuoteAlso.... Notice it says the Queen is back?? Is there a queen in Covenant??
Probably not.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 15, 2017, 12:41:50 AM
I'm not seeing the deviantART myself.
It's the amateur proportions and half-assing the hand that's really standing out to me.
I think the hand is a bit lunky but I don't have a problem with its proportions. The cover is ok to me.
Did that article confirm a Queen is in the movie?
"The queen is back"
Ive been waiting for this! :o didn't think Alien would ever be an A-list property again but this goes someway to reinstating its glamour once more.
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Apr 15, 2017, 12:38:26 AM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 15, 2017, 12:37:25 AM
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Apr 15, 2017, 12:33:32 AM
Geez you people are never satisfied. ::) :P
It's a bad picture, dude. If I'd kept my subscription to Empire I'd probably opt not to get this. :P It's like a bad fan art of the cover of Giger's Alien, but in the style of the AvPR PredAlien poster.
There is another variant cover yet to be revealed!!
Also.... Notice it says the Queen is back?? Is there a queen in Covenant??
Oh man that entire article and image is screaming did the dude even watch Alien! :-\
Not great but i wouldnt mind owning it lol
I don't think there is a queen in the movie-just like in the first Alien 3 teaser they said "the bitch is back". Just trying to drum up press. Besides, I don't want anything like the queen to be anywhere near Covenant.
Is that even the correct design? I thought the xeno in Covenant looked more animal like than this.
I'm a subscriber so I'll either get this today (Saturday) or Tuesday.
Regular cover next week?
Quote from: newagescamartist on Apr 15, 2017, 03:12:37 AM
Is that even the correct design? I thought the xeno in Covenant looked more animal like than this.
It's not screen accurate, no. The shoulder is less developed on the new one.
Quote from: Gazz on Apr 15, 2017, 03:35:09 AM
I'm a subscriber so I'll either get this today (Saturday) or Tuesday.
My mate has got his in the post today, so I imagine yours will be with you imminently! I'm currently negotiating a deal to buy his.
Quote from: Gazz on Apr 15, 2017, 03:35:09 AM
I'm a subscriber so I'll either get this today (Saturday) or Tuesday.
Would you mind scanning the article when it arrives? Thanks. :)
I don't have a scanner but I'll grab a handful of snaps with my phone. Should do until someone else gets you better.
It's here and there are lots of new alien shots and an Engineer shot.
Covers looks really bad, amateurish stuff level 9999.
Too much average looking google image thing with fusion mod overlay on barely detailed structure.
Lighting suck and colors are not in harmony.
Did they ask the internship to write Ash quote in that typo and green thing there and place it here? ::)
Quote from: Gazz on Apr 15, 2017, 08:03:47 AM
I don't have a scanner but I'll grab a handful of snaps with my phone. Should do until someone else gets you better.
It's here and there are lots of new alien shots and an Engineer shot.
Are any of them of practical aliens... ?
All the scans are here, sorry about the low quality.
http://imgur.com/a/FZZqP
Quote from: SiL on Apr 15, 2017, 08:29:56 AM
Quote from: Gazz on Apr 15, 2017, 08:03:47 AM
I don't have a scanner but I'll grab a handful of snaps with my phone. Should do until someone else gets you better.
It's here and there are lots of new alien shots and an Engineer shot.
Are any of them of practical aliens... ?
One shot of a newborn Alien looks like it may be practical (or at least have practical elements). The rest are digital.
Bambi Alien returns!
That was my first thought as well. Glad to see it again.
Some weird comments about the Alien design going back to the elegance of Giger's designs while ... not being Giger's designs?
Thanks Gazz. Great stuff!
Quote from: SiL on Apr 15, 2017, 08:40:05 AM
Some weird comments about the Alien design going back to the elegance of Giger's designs while ... not being Giger's designs?
I hope it's portrayed elegantly in the film, I know smashing its head against the window of McBride's cockpit isn't elegant, but the two-page spread of the Alien Gazz uploaded looks sweeeeeet.
And cheers for uploading Gazz!
The citadel :o :o :o :o
Those engineers don't look like the engineers from Prometheus at all. :o
I thought that as well
Thanks for sharing, Gazz! This'll do great until the issue comes out digitally and I'll purchase a copy then.
Some great shots in there! Look how massive that Engineer city is! Chris Seagers makes an interesting comment about the Engineers not necessarily being a race, but rather a culture?
Honestly, I really don't like how the engineers look in that pic. :-[
The rest looks pretty good though.
Holy moly...someone pls create a montage of alle clips and images - lets see if we can reconstruct the whole movie before release :D
Whatever, some nice pics.
Never get tired of the complaint about those Engineers :D
Because,
Spoiler
they are not Engineers. And this is not PARADISE! The tagline of the movie reveals the plot already. Think!
Different cultures of engineers confirmed?
Nah, they're engineers. The people who worked on the movie called them engineers. It says so in the article too, by the way.
Engineers looks weird. Too much spoilers. But the scale is impressive
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9cWfMAWsAAyFaQ.jpg)
https://mobile.twitter.com/sicarpenterart/status/853175391523143680 (https://mobile.twitter.com/sicarpenterart/status/853175391523143680)
Wow, what a tremendously spoiler-filled article. I can't believe this is even in print?
These new pictures of the Neomorph are SO BADASS.
Out first shot of post-Prometheus David, he looks like a fallen angel (hence the whole Paradise Lost thing). The Engineer city.... WOW! I agree, however, that the Engineers here look more human-almost like the underground civilization beings from Dark City. The movie looks amazing. Hicks is right when he says that this looks like a second shot at what Prometheus should have been; the shot or the Neomorph standing over a dead body looks like one of the concept art pieces of the beluga alien standing over a body (shot for shot).
I don't get people's complaints about the Engineers ???
You people know how different humans can look, right? The engineers from Prometheus were 2000 years old - at least - and were a faction of Engineers that must have been specifically created/trained to serve in their version of the military/space program. There wasn't a rule in place saying that all engineers must look alike.
Is the complaint that they don't look otherworldly enough? I would actually agree with that, I don't mind that all Engineers don't look alike, but something a bit more... "alien" ;D or in any case less human-looking would have been more exciting.
Regarding spoilers and articles, I think this one was my limit! I'm going to "try" ;D not to spoil myself any further until the movie hits.
Jesus, that IS some spoiler heavy stuff! How are they even allowed to print this?
But wow, can't believe how awesome the Alien looks this time around. Really fantastic and quite interesting what subtle changes in design can do to a well known creature. That might be the most awesome anf fiercesome looking Alien since Alien3. Really, really fond of this.
And hell, the CItadel looks massive and epical as hell. Yet, I am with you guys... the Eningeers depicted look more or less like Neanderthals and have nothing to do with the grace and elegance we saw in Prometheus, whether it is the sacrificial engineer or the last one. They have a very fleshy, brute and grounded look and fell to them which is even more apparent with their clothing... the crew and article referring to them as Engineers has me frustrated a bit. This is no way in vein of what has been established, but the scene itself looks amazing still. I hope they elaborate on that, and those beings are not the Engineers from Prometheus, but rather a fraction or maybe even human-like aliens that whorship the actual Engineers.
Other than that, David looks fantastic, the Alien and Neomorph got me hyped as hell and this whole thing has me colored excited as never before with this movie. 4 weeks to go.
I don't think they look otherworldly enough-I like how you presented that. The Engineers in Prometheus didn't look alike either, despite them being of similar stature. What would work better is for them to have black eyes just like the two in Prometheus did, that would at least make it believe as in "yeah, these are Engineers for sure, I remember the albino creatures from Prometheus!"
On second viewing (the better scans on the front page) the Engineers do have black eyes.
The engineers in Prometheus are beautiful, and somewhat intimidating. These engineers just look boring and goofy.
But perhaps these are a different faction of engineers or something like that, which could explain why they look so different.
Quote from: lv_226 on Apr 15, 2017, 12:20:42 PMWhat would work better is for them to have black eyes just like the two in Prometheus did, that would at least make it believe as in "yeah, these are Engineers for sure, I remember the albino creatures from Prometheus!"
Sure, fair point. I agree.
Is it possible the look of these Engineers are a budget thing?
Quote from: Beardomorph on Apr 15, 2017, 12:29:11 PM
Quote from: lv_226 on Apr 15, 2017, 12:20:42 PMWhat would work better is for them to have black eyes just like the two in Prometheus did, that would at least make it believe as in "yeah, these are Engineers for sure, I remember the albino creatures from Prometheus!"
Sure, fair point. I agree.
Is it possible the look of these Engineers are a budget thing?
Sure, why not? There are hundreds, if not thousands of Engineers in this city and it would be impractical to hire a ton of seven foot plus actors to fulfill the requirement of this scene. Plus, as stated above, the bald heads and black eyes denote enough of the qualities from
Prometheus that it fulfills on that front (even the sacrificial Enginner at the beginning of Prometheus was wearing a cloak, insinuating that he isn't always walking around semi-nude). Also, in order to fit the scale of the city I think that the most practical approach was to "civilize" the Engineers. I still think that they are not telling us everything about them. There is still too much mystery between the Engineers on LV-223, the ones in Covenant, and whatever the hell the one on LV-426 even is.
It's stated in the article by the production designer, that the Engineers are not necessarily a race but a civilization. So I think that confirms these are not exactly the same Engineers as in Prometheus.
(Long time lurker here - thought I'd finally make an account. Hello everyone!)
Quote from: bloated_imp on Apr 15, 2017, 12:45:24 PM
It's stated in the article by the production designer, that the Engineers are not necessarily a race but a civilization. So I think that confirms these are not exactly the same Engineers as in Prometheus.
(Long time lurker here - thought I'd finally make an account. Hello everyone!)
Welcome! ;D
Well, dozens of movies managed to incorporate large crowds of beings looking very much alike. My impression would be that you'd only need a handfull of people dressed as Engineers for close ups, whereas the rest is just CGI and some rendering.
I certainly hope they got something to tell on this matter. At least, we need enough backstory to justfiy two more movies that Ridley is talking about. I can't imagine that these will solely be based on the Alien and how it became "biomechnical". There just has to be a lot more backstory behind the Engineers or Space Jockey or whatever it is that created us, the Alien etc.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 15, 2017, 12:41:50 AM
I'm not seeing the deviantART myself. But who reads or subscribes to Empire anymore?
I get mine free with my Lloyds bank account... but I wouldn't buy it if I had to pay for it.
Wow! The Engineer city looks great! Loving the Neomorph and the xeno. I'll echo the comment that this looks like what I was expecting going into Prometheus. 4 more weeks!
Whoah!
That looks freakn epic!
I cannot wait to see this movie ♠️
Bambi burster looks amazing but was kinda hoping to see a classic burster.
Is that how the burster looks? Hmm, I don't know how to feel about that. Looks fine, but I was hoping for a classic burster too.
Perhaps this is one of the backbursters? It looks too big to come out of someone's chest.
Are those.., engineers?. Elders?
And the protoalien isn't born as a chestbuester yet?, looks like it will still share a lot more than expected with the neomorph
The alien in the first page sports the classic biomech shoulders combined with the also biomech backtubes, but the rest of the body is the fleshy one from covenant. Is that fan art or something?
Just to be clear, I only skimmed over the images quickly - must stay clean (scrubs furiously) - but does it look like a different culture but otherwise the same engineers? Like, are they more like civilians/peasants as compared to the engineers in Prometheus?
Also, it was true that..
Spoiler
Covenant's cargo seems to go further than the main cast. They carry a couple of thousand frozen folks aboard. Mmmh, how many eggs do you guys estimate were aboard the Derelict? xD
The pic of David
Spoiler
dropping all the containers of black goo on the Engineers looks pretty sweet.
I wonder if that's told in a flashback sequence?
aaaanndd..
Spoiler
"the terraforming bay". Is paradise a terraformed instead?
Quote from: Evanus on Apr 15, 2017, 01:40:51 PM
Is that how the burster looks? Hmm, I don't know how to feel about that. Looks fine, but I was hoping for a classic burster too.
Im wondering if it comes out as a regular burster but actually starts to grow immediatly like how the neonoroh grows.
That or its a really small bambi burster like in A3.
Cudrup is going to feel it
Is that the fully grown form of the Neomorph next to the dead body?
If so, f**k'in A! ;D
Not as exciting as some of the other reveals, but there is confirmation that Callie Hernandez's name is Upworth in the film.
Who's the old guy in the open characters shot with his arms crossed ?
Not wearing any protective gear either.Bloody lazy.
That 2 page spread of the adult alien is gorgeous and looks practical.
So?? How does David
Spoiler
get his haircut??
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9dbqXIWsAAMd0n.jpg)
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Apr 15, 2017, 03:24:47 PM
So?? How does David Spoiler
get his haircut??
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9dbqXIWsAAMd0n.jpg)
Spoiler
Scissors
Quote from: 426Buddy on Apr 15, 2017, 03:29:37 PM
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Apr 15, 2017, 03:24:47 PM
So?? How does David Spoiler
get his haircut??
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9dbqXIWsAAMd0n.jpg)
Spoiler
Scissors
Spoiler
smartass!!
What's happening between David and Walter in that pic. Thinks it's on the page with the 'Engineers'.
Quote from: hfeldhaus on Apr 15, 2017, 03:40:09 PM
What's happening between David and Walter in that pic. Thinks it's on the page with the 'Engineers'.
Well what I heard is that..
Spoiler
David is teaching Walter how to play the flute, to show that he isn't limited by his programming and he can learn too.
Yes so he can activate the controls in front of the pilot's seat in the juggernaut.
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Apr 15, 2017, 03:36:10 PM
Quote from: 426Buddy on Apr 15, 2017, 03:29:37 PM
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Apr 15, 2017, 03:24:47 PM
So?? How does David Spoiler
get his haircut??
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9dbqXIWsAAMd0n.jpg)
Spoiler
Scissors
Spoiler
smartass!!
Lol! I couldnt help myself :D ;)
Quote from: Evanus on Apr 15, 2017, 03:43:14 PM
Quote from: hfeldhaus on Apr 15, 2017, 03:40:09 PM
What's happening between David and Walter in that pic. Thinks it's on the page with the 'Engineers'.
Well what I heard is that..
Spoiler
David is teaching Walter how to play the flute, to show that he isn't limited by his programming and he can learn too.
Oh yeah, it's the flute.
This the first time I've loved the Neomorph. Looks great.
Quote from: bareterrapin on Apr 15, 2017, 03:44:56 PM
Yes so he can activate the controls in front of the pilot's seat in the juggernaut.
Not necessarily. David just wants to show Walter he can learn too, despite his programming.
Yeah the creatures just look fantastic.
dispite this being sci-fi, I'm beginning to sense bad news for the engineers story.
I find when you place too much emphasis on the society, its going to change the ridley verse dramatically.
It will become too much like star wars and things get out of hand. I simply feel they could have just removed the city altogether.
Too many questions as to : how did the engineers make all this stuff? How did they manufacture it? What is thier currency? What is their economy like? What is their prime rate for lending...etc.etc.
I mean what the hell is that big ass scorpion tale coming out of the ground? Did someone make that? Is it plant, you just add water?
I don't understand one thing. If David wiped out everybody who was present on the planet by dropping the black goo urns, then what happened to those (whoever is there) who were on the smaller ship that is seen next to the juggernaut ship in the shot of the city?
Quote from: acrediblesource on Apr 15, 2017, 03:54:57 PM
dispite this being sci-fi, I'm beginning to sense bad news for the engineers story.
I find when you place too much emphasis on the society, its going to change the ridley verse dramatically.
It will become too much like star wars and things get out of hand. I simply feel they could have just removed the city altogether.
Too many questions as to : how did the engineers make all this stuff? How did they manufacture it? What is thier currency? What is their economy like? What is their prime rate for lending...etc.etc.
I mean what the hell is that big ass scorpion tale coming out of the ground? Did someone make that? Is it plant, you just add water?
Let me get this... you like the Ridley-verse but you don't like too many questions.
Did you hate Alien? They could have skipped the whole movie for all the unanswered questions it poses.
Quote from: lordvader on Apr 15, 2017, 04:00:09 PM
I don't understand one thing. If David wiped out everybody who was present on the planet by dropping the black goo urns, then what happened to those (whoever is there) who were on the smaller ship that is seen next to the juggernaut ship in the shot of the city?
I think the smaller ship to the right is the Juggernaut.
Quote from: acrediblesource on Apr 15, 2017, 03:54:57 PM
dispite this being sci-fi, I'm beginning to sense bad news for the engineers story.
I find when you place too much emphasis on the society, its going to change the ridley verse dramatically.
It will become too much like star wars and things get out of hand. I simply feel they could have just removed the city altogether.
Too many questions as to : how did the engineers make all this stuff? How did they manufacture it? What is thier currency? What is their economy like? What is their prime rate for lending...etc.etc.
I mean what the hell is that big ass scorpion tale coming out of the ground? Did someone make that? Is it plant, you just add water?
Your asking for TV series level of detail in a 2 hour film. Fill in the blanks yourself, it's what people have been doing since the dawn of film.
This type of thinking is perfect example of the breakaway that's happening between film and audience. Film has remained the same but the audience is wanting more I guess.
hopefully we get the hi res stills soon
Quote from: hfeldhaus on Apr 15, 2017, 04:09:22 PM
Your asking for TV series level of detail in a 2 hour film. Fill in the blanks yourself, it's what people have been doing since the dawn of film.
This type of thinking is perfect example of the breakaway that's happening between film and audience. Film has remained the same but the audience is wanting more I guess.
And nobody needs the answers to these questions unless it becomes relevant to the plot. Unanswered questions are what has allowed for decades of novel, comics and video games based on the franchise. It allows you to use your imagination and come up with your own ideas.
Regarding the "big ass scorpion tail" ( that description is magic ;D), I assume it's the docking bay for the Juggernauts. Does anybody have another guess for what that is?
lol John Logan's approach is the opposite of Lindelof's.
From "I love all the scary stuff, but I want to take a philosophical approach" to the converse.
Any interesting Logan quotes?
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Apr 15, 2017, 03:24:47 PM
So?? How does David Spoiler
get his haircut??
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9dbqXIWsAAMd0n.jpg)
Do androids dream of electric clippers? ;D He looks like a
Spoiler
hippie
Quote from: Russ840 on Apr 15, 2017, 04:08:53 PM
Quote from: lordvader on Apr 15, 2017, 04:00:09 PM
I don't understand one thing. If David wiped out everybody who was present on the planet by dropping the black goo urns, then what happened to those (whoever is there) who were on the smaller ship that is seen next to the juggernaut ship in the shot of the city?
I think the smaller ship to the right is the Juggernaut.
hmmm.. then what is the other thing (the scorpion tale)?
I hope David gets his hair cut pretty early on... he looks like David St. Hubbins from Spinal Tap! :D
Quote from: Gazz on Apr 15, 2017, 08:32:45 AM
All the scans are here, sorry about the low quality.
http://imgur.com/a/FZZqP
Quote from: SiL on Apr 15, 2017, 08:29:56 AM
Quote from: Gazz on Apr 15, 2017, 08:03:47 AM
I don't have a scanner but I'll grab a handful of snaps with my phone. Should do until someone else gets you better.
It's here and there are lots of new alien shots and an Engineer shot.
Are any of them of practical aliens... ?
One shot of a newborn Alien looks like it may be practical (or at least have practical elements). The rest are digital.
Thanks for the pics, added link to my original post!! 8)
Scified and Picard's took your scans, Gazz, with no credit to yourself. ::)
Quote from: lordvader on Apr 15, 2017, 04:22:33 PM
Quote from: Russ840 on Apr 15, 2017, 04:08:53 PM
Quote from: lordvader on Apr 15, 2017, 04:00:09 PM
I don't understand one thing. If David wiped out everybody who was present on the planet by dropping the black goo urns, then what happened to those (whoever is there) who were on the smaller ship that is seen next to the juggernaut ship in the shot of the city?
I think the smaller ship to the right is the Juggernaut.
hmmm.. then what is the other thing (the scorpion tale)?
No idea but it looks nothing like the juggernaut. I love the design. Very Gigeresque
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 15, 2017, 04:27:25 PM
Scified and Picard's took your scans, Gazz, with no credit to yourself or here. Again. ::)
And what's odd is he is allowed to be a member here.. So odd. ???
And what is going on here??
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.scified.com%2Ftopics%2F555280244985561.jpg&hash=4bf784102169b1ea0cce1bea617e16739d0674c7)
David's got the Bruce Dern look going on from Silent Running. Android's hair grows, eh? Or is it another one of his vain affectations?
The Neomorph is basically going to be William Gibson's Alien 3 airborne "Infected" creature where it is the mutated host but sheds the hosts skin on the floor. It's strange, because watching the trailer you think they've given too much away, but I don't think we've seen even half of how disgusting that scene will play out.
Walter showing David an Engineer flute?
Quote from: Ultramorph on Apr 15, 2017, 04:54:35 PM
Walter showing David an Engineer flute?
Good catch. That's probably what it is.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Apr 15, 2017, 04:54:35 PM
Walter showing David an Engineer flute?
Healing him, or checking if he's ok (they're brothers after all) lol
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Apr 15, 2017, 04:32:24 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 15, 2017, 04:27:25 PM
Scified and Picard's took your scans, Gazz, with no credit to yourself or here. Again. ::)
And what's odd is he is allowed to be a member here.. So odd. ???
And what is going on here??
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.scified.com%2Ftopics%2F555280244985561.jpg&hash=4bf784102169b1ea0cce1bea617e16739d0674c7)
I already explained it before, David is probably teaching Walter how to use the flute so he can show him that he can learn new things, even though he's limited by his programming.
Also the *engineers don't look like the one we saw last time*
They seem less developed and more human like? and where is the woman! lol
Quote from: x-M-x on Apr 15, 2017, 05:03:24 PM
Also the *engineers don't look like the one we saw last time*
They seem less developed and more human like? and where is the woman! lol
They look more like the ones deleted from
Prometheus. But yes, more humanoid in appearance.
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Apr 15, 2017, 04:32:24 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 15, 2017, 04:27:25 PM
Scified and Picard's took your scans, Gazz, with no credit to yourself or here. Again. ::)
And what's odd is he is allowed to be a member here.. So odd. ???
And what is going on here??
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.scified.com%2Ftopics%2F555280244985561.jpg&hash=4bf784102169b1ea0cce1bea617e16739d0674c7)
Spoiler
They do crack
Quote from: lordvader on Apr 15, 2017, 04:22:33 PM
Quote from: Russ840 on Apr 15, 2017, 04:08:53 PM
Quote from: lordvader on Apr 15, 2017, 04:00:09 PM
I don't understand one thing. If David wiped out everybody who was present on the planet by dropping the black goo urns, then what happened to those (whoever is there) who were on the smaller ship that is seen next to the juggernaut ship in the shot of the city?
I think the smaller ship to the right is the Juggernaut.
hmmm.. then what is the other thing (the scorpion tale)?
I wonder if its an Engineer ship trying to shoot down the Juggernaut?
So are we to assume that David goes
Spoiler
aboard the drop ship to cut his hair??
Looking at these (I still don´t think they are Engineers) dudes, one thing comes in my mind:
Spoiler
Angry White Men. They look like Trump voters :D
And this makes it even more like it:
Quote from: locusta on Apr 15, 2017, 05:13:12 PM
Looking at these (I still don´t think they are Engineers) dudes, one thing comes in my mind: Spoiler
Angry White Men. They look like Trump voters :D
And this makes it even more like it:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
They just look so goofy, I can't believe it. :D
I hope we get to see engineers that look more like the ones from Prometheus in the next movie(s).
Quote from: Evanus on Apr 15, 2017, 05:01:50 PM
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Apr 15, 2017, 04:32:24 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 15, 2017, 04:27:25 PM
Scified and Picard's took your scans, Gazz, with no credit to yourself or here. Again. ::)
And what's odd is he is allowed to be a member here.. So odd. ???
And what is going on here??
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.scified.com%2Ftopics%2F555280244985561.jpg&hash=4bf784102169b1ea0cce1bea617e16739d0674c7)
I already explained it before, David is probably teaching Walter how to use the flute so he can show him that he can learn new things, even though he's limited by his programming.
We heard some reports from people who saw the movie saying Fassbender's performance during the "flute scene" is something quite memorable. I wonder if he will push that flute through David/Walter's head?
Spoiler
But in such a way that we can no longer tell who is who
Another detail that excites me is the name of the Planet has been revealed! "ORIGAE-6" - However it remains unclear if they are referring to the planet the Covenant is HEADED to, or the planet they LAND ON. Which we know from leaks, are 2 different planets.
Quote from: lordvader on Apr 15, 2017, 04:22:33 PM
hmmm.. then what is the other thing (the scorpion tale)?
sort of crane for some really huge craft to dock in
Quote from: CainsSon on Apr 15, 2017, 05:22:02 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Apr 15, 2017, 05:01:50 PM
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Apr 15, 2017, 04:32:24 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 15, 2017, 04:27:25 PM
Scified and Picard's took your scans, Gazz, with no credit to yourself or here. Again. ::)
And what's odd is he is allowed to be a member here.. So odd. ???
And what is going on here??
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.scified.com%2Ftopics%2F555280244985561.jpg&hash=4bf784102169b1ea0cce1bea617e16739d0674c7)
I already explained it before, David is probably teaching Walter how to use the flute so he can show him that he can learn new things, even though he's limited by his programming.
We heard some reports from people who saw the movie saying Fassbender's performance during the "flute scene" is something quite memorable. I wonder if he will push that flute through David/Walter's head?
Spoiler
But in such a way that we can no longer tell who is who
Another detail that excites me is the name of the Planet has been revealed! "ORIGAE-6" - However it remains unclear if they are referring to the planet the Covenant is HEADED to, or the planet they LAND ON. Which we know from leaks, are 2 different planets.
I can't imagine that it's the name of 'paradise'. Why would that planet have a name.
Suppose it could have been name if discovered on telescop or by whatever they use to discover planets from earth.
Quote from: locusta on Apr 15, 2017, 05:13:12 PM
Looking at these (I still don´t think they are Engineers) dudes, one thing comes in my mind: Spoiler
Angry White Men. They look like Trump voters :D
And this makes it even more like it:
There does seem to be a distinct lack of prosthetics.
It reads like the Covenant is headed to Origae-6 when they pick up "a distress call from an unexplored planet."
The young-looking xeno!
I wonder if it's supposed to be this movie's version of a chestburster or if it's an adolescent.
Quote from: Predaker on Apr 15, 2017, 05:37:29 PM
It reads like the Covenant is headed to Origae-6 when they pick up "a distress call from an unexplored planet."
That's my understanding of the situation.
Quote from: fernandito on Apr 15, 2017, 05:25:51 PM
Quote from: lordvader on Apr 15, 2017, 04:22:33 PM
hmmm.. then what is the other thing (the scorpion tale)?
sort of crane for some really huge craft to dock in
Nah, it appears to be hovering over the arena area. Not anchored to the ground. Must be another ship I presume, the recent CinemaCon reports said there was another ship.
Corporal, you usually get the digital issue of Empire, any chance of getting some clean hi-res, hi-quality screen-grabs from that?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 15, 2017, 05:39:23 PM
Quote from: Predaker on Apr 15, 2017, 05:37:29 PM
It reads like the Covenant is headed to Origae-6 when they pick up "a distress call from an unexplored planet."
That's my understanding of the situation.
Well then
Spoiler
Origae 6 is next, it would seem! If they get there!
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Apr 15, 2017, 05:44:26 PM
Corporal, you usually get the digital issue of Empire, any chance of getting some clean hi-res, hi-quality screen-grabs from that?
When it's out for general release, yeah.
Ok So David dropped off mutagen urns on the Engineer city & turned it into Pompeii but what about rest of the planet? Did black goo caused planet-wide apocalypse or all the planet's Engineers just live in that small city?
I hope we get to see a living Engineers again; there's so much potential that can be explored later on. Maybe some survived & hiding out somewhere dealing with David's created monsters or black goo mutated animals.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 15, 2017, 05:47:51 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Apr 15, 2017, 05:44:26 PM
Corporal, you usually get the digital issue of Empire, any chance of getting some clean hi-res, hi-quality screen-grabs from that?
When it's out for general release, yeah.
Splendid, do you know when they usually come out?
20th.
Man,
Spoiler
that bambi-burster looks great.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Apr 15, 2017, 01:29:12 PM
Wow! The Engineer city looks great! Loving the Neomorph and the xeno. I'll echo the comment that this looks like what I was expecting going into Prometheus. 4 more weeks!
where are these pictures posted??
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/2017/04/15/latest-empire-alien-covenant-article-images/
This is all conjecture on my part (I'll use spoiler tags anyway) but I'm thinking
Spoiler
after David bombs the planet with the black goo, the other ship shoots at the Juggernaut down causing it to crash. Of course I don't know what would happen to this other ship.
I'm very curious about
Spoiler
the purpose and ultimate fate of the "Mother Juggernaut" that we see hovering over the city.
Spoiler
Maybe it's trying to escape the planet?
Quote from: echobbase79 on Apr 15, 2017, 06:38:23 PM
Spoiler
Maybe it's trying to escape the planet?
Spoiler
Or it's some kind of docking bay. Worth nothing we don't see it wrecked in any of the later shots we've seen of the Engineer city post-bombing. Maybe some of them get away? I get a feeling the Engineers' revenge will play a role in the later films of the trilogy.
For anyone reading the comics, do you think the
Engineers in Life and Death know what happened on Paradise?
It's either a docking bay for a monstruos size craft (the Saucers we see in the beginning of Prometheus) or some sort of crane
Spoiler
I thought the docking bay was the opening in the ground?
Lololol. So, David with long hair. I pointed out the visible locks emerging from his hood in the first trailer, was totally ignored, thought I'd gone off the deep end.
Also well done to all the people that observed the Paradise race
Spoiler
were proportionally too small to be Engineers, and with their ancient-world tech could only feasibly be another Engineer-seeded, humanoid race.
You are vindicated!
Spoiler
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9cdKTOXUAAX7LB.jpg)
That's definitely a space ship not a crane cause its not touching the ground, its a ship that is hovering sideways.
One thing by now and these new shots show that again, we see only CG creatures at this point. Not sure if it is a reason to worry about the overall quality, but at least it hints towards allot of wide action shots. Not what the franchise is so much used to.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 15, 2017, 12:37:25 AM
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Apr 15, 2017, 12:33:32 AM
Geez you people are never satisfied. ::) :P
It's a bad picture, dude. If I'd kept my subscription to Empire I'd probably opt not to get this. :P It's like a bad fan art of the cover of Giger's Alien, but in the style of the AvPR PredAlien poster.
It's fine for what it is. Empire has always been a hack rag, promotional platform for the studios*. Their covers have always had crap, tabloid-level photoshopping (I clearly remember a pencil-waisted, balloon-busted Angelina Jolie when Tomb Raider came out that was surely some sort of meta joke), and as far as I can tell they've never bothered to hide that they take money for good reviews. The quality of their covers shouldn't even be up for discussion.
*Actually thinking back, Kim Newman's column was good?
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Apr 15, 2017, 06:59:20 PM
Spoiler
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9cdKTOXUAAX7LB.jpg)
That's definitely a space ship not a crane cause its not touching the ground, its a ship that is hovering sideways.
It looks like a scorpion's tail
Great photos! The neomorph looks amazing. Does anyone know if it's the baby or adult?
Also that backburster looks painful af
Quote from: Molecules on Apr 15, 2017, 07:04:50 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 15, 2017, 12:37:25 AM
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Apr 15, 2017, 12:33:32 AM
Geez you people are never satisfied. ::) :P
It's a bad picture, dude. If I'd kept my subscription to Empire I'd probably opt not to get this. :P It's like a bad fan art of the cover of Giger's Alien, but in the style of the AvPR PredAlien poster.
It's fine for what it is. Empire has always been a hack rag, promotional platform for the studios. Their covers have always had crap, tabloid-level photoshopping (I clearly remember a pencil-waisted, balloon-busted Angelina Jolie when Tomb Raider came out that was surely some sort of meta joke), and as far as I can tell they've never bothered to hide that they take money for good reviews. The quality of their covers shouldn't even be up for discussion.
Yeah, but it´s just a sad wasted opportunity for a truly remarkable show off and even more a much needed tribute for the late master Giger.
Maybe Walter learning the flute is too help him be mistaken for David, if needed.
While David would not have cut his hair to match Walter's unless it was for the same reason.
Here the page of the cover artist. http://www.debutart.com/artist/jacey
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Apr 15, 2017, 06:59:20 PM
Spoiler
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9cdKTOXUAAX7LB.jpg)
That's definitely a space ship not a crane cause its not touching the ground, its a ship that is hovering sideways.
Given its size and relative affinity to the derelict on LV-426 (it isn't round and longer like the original design) if this humongous ship is the derelict in Alien?! It would make sense given the cavernous dimensions of the interior of the ship when Kane travels down the egg chamber. What if, during the bombing raid on Paradise, this ship takes off? Idk, pure conjecture.
Aren't the xenomorph's and bambiburster's teeth look too different for them to be the same exact creature?
It's not literally a bambiburster, it just looks very similar.
Quote from: echobbase79 on Apr 15, 2017, 05:04:27 PM
Quote from: x-M-x on Apr 15, 2017, 05:03:24 PM
Also the *engineers don't look like the one we saw last time*
They seem less developed and more human like? and where is the woman! lol
They look more like the ones deleted from Prometheus. But yes, more humanoid in appearance.
Yup! Exactly what I was thinking.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-n-KsPU7oZPQ%2FVcvsJz2eseI%2FAAAAAAAAy8k%2FlynQ334vL2s%2Fs1600%2FPrometheus-726x248.jpg&hash=f28910bd59a41b908810b9c1b01bc29e2aa84490)
I know. What I was trying to say is that the creature's teeth are not the same as xenomorph's from the two-page spread.
Quote from: GQSioux on Apr 15, 2017, 07:26:57 PM
Quote from: echobbase79 on Apr 15, 2017, 05:04:27 PM
Quote from: x-M-x on Apr 15, 2017, 05:03:24 PM
Also the *engineers don't look like the one we saw last time*
They seem less developed and more human like? and where is the woman! lol
They look more like the ones deleted from Prometheus. But yes, more humanoid in appearance.
Yup! Exactly what I was thinking.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-n-KsPU7oZPQ/VcvsJz2eseI/AAAAAAAAy8k/lynQ334vL2s/s1600/Prometheus-726x248.jpg
Those still look
much better, in my opinion.
The new ones barely have any prosthetics. They're just boring pale bald dudes!
Quote from: TyrantUA on Apr 15, 2017, 07:29:49 PM
I know. What I was trying to say is that the creature's teeth are not the same as xenomorph's from the two-page spread.
Yeah, the teeth look different. But it's probably still the same creature.
Quote from: Evanus on Apr 15, 2017, 07:32:21 PM
Quote from: GQSioux on Apr 15, 2017, 07:26:57 PM
Quote from: echobbase79 on Apr 15, 2017, 05:04:27 PM
Quote from: x-M-x on Apr 15, 2017, 05:03:24 PM
Also the *engineers don't look like the one we saw last time*
They seem less developed and more human like? and where is the woman! lol
They look more like the ones deleted from Prometheus. But yes, more humanoid in appearance.
Yup! Exactly what I was thinking.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-n-KsPU7oZPQ/VcvsJz2eseI/AAAAAAAAy8k/lynQ334vL2s/s1600/Prometheus-726x248.jpg
Those still look much better, in my opinion.
The new ones barely have any prosthetics. They're just boring pale bald dudes!
Quote from: TyrantUA on Apr 15, 2017, 07:29:49 PM
I know. What I was trying to say is that the creature's teeth are not the same as xenomorph's from the two-page spread.
Yeah, the teeth look different. But it's probably still the same creature.
Hopefully, it's just a bad production still. I'm hoping they have the same kind of skin tone like they had in
Prometheus.
Quote from: locusta on Apr 15, 2017, 07:00:29 PM
One thing by now and these new shots show that again, we see only CG creatures at this point. Not sure if it is a reason to worry about the overall quality, but at least it hints towards allot of wide action shots. Not what the franchise is so much used to.
Locusta, is this CG too? I thought for sure it was practical but maybe i'm wrong.
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FeXX8IeS.jpg%3F1&hash=1e4803d9d6b3fd7825268dde132e182364cea6ea)
Quote from: locusta on Apr 15, 2017, 10:14:08 AM
Never get tired of the complaint about those Engineers :D
Because, Spoiler
they are not Engineers. And this is not PARADISE! The tagline of the movie reveals the plot already. Think!
agree, i just dont get why people maintain so stubborn that they're engineers, they simply aren't.
Production designer Chris Seagers seems to think they're Engineers.
According to Hicks, they were called deadgineers on set. Plus we've heard from multiple other sources that they are in fact engineers. There is no evidence that says otherwise, right?
Why dont we call them big ass nose people for now?
In the article he was quoted saying, "I don't know if you call the Engineers a race, but they're a civilization."
Quote from: Predaker on Apr 15, 2017, 08:11:05 PM
In the article he was quoted saying, "I don't know if you call the Engineers a race, but they're a civilization."
That quote really stuck out to me. I wonder if it's indicating that what we call Engineers are really more a patchwork of similar races making up melting-pot type civilization.
Quote from: Molecules on Apr 15, 2017, 07:04:50 PM
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Apr 15, 2017, 06:59:20 PM
Spoiler
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9cdKTOXUAAX7LB.jpg)
That's definitely a space ship not a crane cause its not touching the ground, its a ship that is hovering sideways.
It looks like a scorpion's tail
it's a spaceship which, admittedly from this angle, looks like having a scorpion-like tail. what it serves is unknown offcourse.
it looks gigantic but it's probably just much closer to the 'camera' compared to the 'juggernaut' to the right which probably is the ship of david and shaw.
the hole in the centre definately is a 'launch bay' like that on LV-223 opening.
not sure about that scene, but it could be moments before david unleashes the vases onto the civilization, which seem like they're looking angry in the sky, possibly because they get a visit from the spacecraft.
anyway, looks so cool that i am just stunned by what i'm seeing. i am so extremely excited!
I honestly think they just decided to modify the Engineer design and are now handwaving it when asked about it. That's Ridley.
Point is - they're the Engineers, that is their homeworld. I can't believe this is still being argued about when it's in print from the crew. This is the Engineers/space jockeys and this is what's happening to them in the movie. Accept it.
Quote from: 426Buddy on Apr 15, 2017, 07:52:45 PM
Quote from: locusta on Apr 15, 2017, 07:00:29 PM
One thing by now and these new shots show that again, we see only CG creatures at this point. Not sure if it is a reason to worry about the overall quality, but at least it hints towards allot of wide action shots. Not what the franchise is so much used to.
Locusta, is this CG too? I thought for sure it was practical but maybe i'm wrong.
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FeXX8IeS.jpg%3F1&hash=1e4803d9d6b3fd7825268dde132e182364cea6ea)
Yep. The motion blur of the left arm gives it away.
Quote from: locusta on Apr 15, 2017, 09:10:34 PM
Quote from: 426Buddy on Apr 15, 2017, 07:52:45 PM
Quote from: locusta on Apr 15, 2017, 07:00:29 PM
One thing by now and these new shots show that again, we see only CG creatures at this point. Not sure if it is a reason to worry about the overall quality, but at least it hints towards allot of wide action shots. Not what the franchise is so much used to.
Locusta, is this CG too? I thought for sure it was practical but maybe i'm wrong.
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FeXX8IeS.jpg%3F1&hash=1e4803d9d6b3fd7825268dde132e182364cea6ea)
Yep. The motion blur of the left arm gives it away.
You know that can be done in post with practical effects. The still is also likely photoshopped.
Quote from: Evanus on Apr 15, 2017, 07:32:21 PM
Quote from: GQSioux on Apr 15, 2017, 07:26:57 PM
Quote from: echobbase79 on Apr 15, 2017, 05:04:27 PM
Quote from: x-M-x on Apr 15, 2017, 05:03:24 PM
Also the *engineers don't look like the one we saw last time*
They seem less developed and more human like? and where is the woman! lol
They look more like the ones deleted from Prometheus. But yes, more humanoid in appearance.
Yup! Exactly what I was thinking.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-n-KsPU7oZPQ/VcvsJz2eseI/AAAAAAAAy8k/lynQ334vL2s/s1600/Prometheus-726x248.jpg
Those still look much better, in my opinion.
The new ones barely have any prosthetics. They're just boring pale bald dudes!
Another shot of Prometheus' deleted Engineers, no bio-mech suits, no muscles, just cloaks and sandals.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/301215_01.jpg)
Quote from: x-M-x on Apr 15, 2017, 05:03:24 PM
and where is the woman! lol
In the center.
Quote from: lv_226 on Apr 15, 2017, 07:16:05 PM
Given its size and relative affinity to the derelict on LV-426 (it isn't round and longer like the original design) if this humongous ship is the derelict in Alien?! It would make sense given the cavernous dimensions of the interior of the ship when Kane travels down the egg chamber. What if, during the bombing raid on Paradise, this ship takes off? Idk, pure conjecture.
It's very far from the original derelict design wise. And the Alien derelict is supposedly smaller than the Prometheus juggernaut.
Quote from: locusta on Apr 15, 2017, 09:10:34 PM
Quote from: 426Buddy on Apr 15, 2017, 07:52:45 PM
Quote from: locusta on Apr 15, 2017, 07:00:29 PM
One thing by now and these new shots show that again, we see only CG creatures at this point. Not sure if it is a reason to worry about the overall quality, but at least it hints towards allot of wide action shots. Not what the franchise is so much used to.
Locusta, is this CG too? I thought for sure it was practical but maybe i'm wrong.
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FeXX8IeS.jpg%3F1&hash=1e4803d9d6b3fd7825268dde132e182364cea6ea)
Yep. The motion blur of the left arm gives it away.
Hmm... ;D Are we really saying a photo still from a movie that has blur is CGI, and can't be a single frame from a fast movement of an actual arm? That can't possibly be true, surely?
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Apr 15, 2017, 09:26:49 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Apr 15, 2017, 07:32:21 PM
Quote from: GQSioux on Apr 15, 2017, 07:26:57 PM
Quote from: echobbase79 on Apr 15, 2017, 05:04:27 PM
Quote from: x-M-x on Apr 15, 2017, 05:03:24 PM
Also the *engineers don't look like the one we saw last time*
They seem less developed and more human like? and where is the woman! lol
They look more like the ones deleted from Prometheus. But yes, more humanoid in appearance.
Yup! Exactly what I was thinking.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-n-KsPU7oZPQ/VcvsJz2eseI/AAAAAAAAy8k/lynQ334vL2s/s1600/Prometheus-726x248.jpg
Those still look much better, in my opinion.
The new ones barely have any prosthetics. They're just boring pale bald dudes!
Another shot of Prometheus' deleted Engineers, no bio-mech suits, no muscles, just cloaks and sandals.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/301215_01.jpg)
Quote from: x-M-x on Apr 15, 2017, 05:03:24 PM
and where is the woman! lol
In the center.
Quote from: lv_226 on Apr 15, 2017, 07:16:05 PM
Given its size and relative affinity to the derelict on LV-426 (it isn't round and longer like the original design) if this humongous ship is the derelict in Alien?! It would make sense given the cavernous dimensions of the interior of the ship when Kane travels down the egg chamber. What if, during the bombing raid on Paradise, this ship takes off? Idk, pure conjecture.
It's very far from the original derelict design wise. And the Alien derelict is supposedly smaller than the Prometheus juggernaut.
Yeah, but look at all that make up on his face! Looks much better than those boring bald dudes in Covenant, right?!
"Engineers" does seem to be referring to multifaceted civilization rather than a singular race. Lots of variety. Awesome pics of the ships. Don't two of them join together?
The picture of David
Spoiler
bombing the Engineer City
reminds me of the line he says from
Prometheus:
"Sometimes to create, one must first destroy."
Quote from: echobbase79 on Apr 15, 2017, 10:17:29 PM
The picture of David Spoiler
bombing the Engineer City
"To create, one must first destroy."
*in whisper voice*
F O R E S H A D O W I N G
O
R
E
S
H
A
D
O
W
I
N
G
Quote from: Anthony on Apr 15, 2017, 10:19:04 PM
Quote from: echobbase79 on Apr 15, 2017, 10:17:29 PM
The picture of David Spoiler
bombing the Engineer City
"To create, one must first destroy."
*in whisper voice*
F O R E S H A D O W I N G
O
R
E
S
H
A
D
O
W
I
N
G
I liked the way you typed that. ;D
Quote from: Evanus on Apr 15, 2017, 10:08:02 PM
Yeah, but look at all that make up on his face! Looks much better than those boring bald dudes in Covenant, right?!
They do look better in Prometheus, but in all likelihood we're still just looking at the same Engineer faction.
Might be due to budget and time limitations. On Prometheus they only had to do make-up on a handful of actors, in Covenant they had 30 - 50 Engineer extras.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Apr 15, 2017, 10:24:20 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Apr 15, 2017, 10:08:02 PM
Yeah, but look at all that make up on his face! Looks much better than those boring bald dudes in Covenant, right?!
They do look better in Prometheus, but in all likelihood we're still just looking at the same Engineer faction.
Might be due to budget and time limitations. On Prometheus they only had to do make-up on a handful of actors, in Covenant they had 30 - 50 Engineer extras.
Yep, you're probably right. And if so, it's a shame they couldn't make them look as good. I was looking forward to seeing engineers again, and now they look like this. :-[
Am I the only one who thinks this movie (and Prometheus), has just taken a cop-out direction by Ridley? Don't get me wrong, I'll watch the movie and accept it for where the series is going... But with a heavy heart!
The original Alien movie was just so intelligent... a super alien being, wiping out a crew, with a stealth and an anatomy/skill unlike anything known to mankind... And the fact we knew so little about where it came from, with pieces thrown into the movie adding to the puzzle - the space jockey, spaceship, face hugger, eggs, etc... Was just so damn original and bloody brilliant from a story telling perspective.
However, an evolving new age story, hinging on a robot creating the alien, with the Engineers who are quite frankly pointless given where the story is going, has just made this whole movie timeline, change gear from original sci-fi horror, to Star Trek/TV sci-fi level trash. There's no originality behind it at all... Even Aliens will still be a superior movie, as the origin of the Alien is still not explained... And what Ridley has come up with, quite frankly is lame and disappointing. They're doing a Star Wars - milking the series for as much money as possible! It's just so disappointing.
From what i'm seeing, i'm taking that the 'engineers' are the guys we saw in LV-223.
These guys look different, and less 'advanced', though we clearly see a metropolitan skyscraper city with some advanced stuff.
I'm bound to assume that these humanoids that 'stayed' on the planet are a bit anti-technology somewhat. Like that something once happened, and they decided for saving their species/culture/whatever they mandated that the 'crazy stuff' must happen on an isolated location, hence the 'engineers' going to lv-223. Simply civilians from that planet that went into space and advanced from there, hence why the 'engineers' look different; perhaps even born in space or atleast affected by their 'other' environment.
as for the gigantic 'disc-shape' area in the middle of town, with the hole in the middle that looks a lot like the shape the ground opened up in in prometheus when the juggernaut took off - it could very well be the landing 'platform' for the giant saucer we saw in prometheus' introduction.
that was a absolutely massive disc-shaped flying saucer and it could land there. perhaps the pillars are actually to 'rest' upon, who knows.
Floor hole in the Pyramid in Prometheus. Not my words, that is what Charlie said as he was about to remove his helmet. See why it reminds me of the hole in the middle of the Engineer's city?
Ok this is when Fifield and Milburn are told by Janek that something pinged as alive, which upset them.
Note the vertical chimney and a spherical space with the equator zone walkable. I guess the upper area is the ceiling where the chimney resides. And the lower hemisphere holds water beneath them, or something more? Worth keeping in mind in case we learn related details about the Engineer's city in AC. As in the hole in the center of the Engineer's square in the middle of their city.
Another thing I noticed is that the shape of the hallways is similar to that of the Juggernaut as well as some spaces the Xenomorphs "develop". They all look like they were grown.
Yeah, it looks like ship (s) come out of the opening in the large circular space. Really cool set piece. Interesting response by the neanderneers. Most look confused with the exception of the one dude who looks pissed. So, do the two ships that we see in that pic join together?
The images of the full grown xeno and the neomorph look practical. It's so hard to tell nowadays especially by still photographs, but if that neomorph is cgi I tip my cap to the artists. That looks real to my eyes.
It looks real to me, too.
My thoughts on this piece, and the pages:
That's quote a Walgreens haul in the background. Lol.
Quote from: rabidranger on Apr 16, 2017, 01:15:44 AM
Yeah, it looks like ship (s) come out of the opening in the large circular space. Really cool set piece. Interesting response by the neanderneers. Most look confused with the exception of the one dude who looks pissed. So, do the two ships that we see in that pic join together?
In my view if the circular area with a hole in the middle is not related to terraforming, then it is a base for the ships. The hole in the middle can fit a Juggernaut perhaps? Hard to say, since it is hard to tell scale. Is the juggernaut close or far away? The C-ship? C could be as large as the open area or may have just popped out of the central hole / port. How does it relate to the open zone...if it resides there, then why above ground and what about the Disc ships?
If so then the circular area is huge and since it is kept empty, maybe the whole thing can open up large enough for the really large Disc Ship seen in the beginning of Prometheus. It will be obvious once we see things in motion in the film.
Quote from: Stanley on Apr 16, 2017, 01:45:18 AM
Quote from: rabidranger on Apr 16, 2017, 01:15:44 AM
Yeah, it looks like ship (s) come out of the opening in the large circular space. Really cool set piece. Interesting response by the neanderneers. Most look confused with the exception of the one dude who looks pissed. So, do the two ships that we see in that pic join together?
In my view if the circular area with a hole in the middle is not related to terraforming, then it is a base for the ships. The hole in the middle can fit a Juggernaut perhaps? Hard to say, since it is hard to tell scale. Is the juggernaut close or far away? The C-ship? C could be as large as the open area or may have just popped out of the central hole / port. How does it relate to the open zone...if it resides there, then why above ground and what about the Disc ships?
If so then the circular area is huge and since it is kept empty, maybe the whole thing can open up large enough for the really large Disc Ship seen in the beginning of Prometheus. It will be obvious once we see things in motion in the film.
I think this "city square" is massive. Certainly large enough for a juggernaut to take off from/land. There might be hundreds of thousands of Engineers in the area.
The article was written long before they were probably provided the stills. I assume at one point in the evolution of the movie they looked more like the traditional engineers we know from Prometheus (and got changed to being a race the engineers seeded rather than engineers themselves). I think that scene probably got a fair degree of post-work down when they took it out of one of test screenings.
I'm still wondering if this film is going to work. It will look great, but it sounds like it was a bit of a mess to edit together and went through some heavy revising later on.
Personally I was hoping for something more like this.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FMHsTh5o.jpg&hash=532cb5b80ac0fa9c8e9a45f39fd094aea3823cda)
The Engineer city in Covenant looks like the Vatican, stone with no bio-mechanical elements at all. I have to wonder if this is the same faction as the pressure-suit engineers that had seemingly altered themselves. There were those images of that Alien-looking hallway though so I guess we'll see.
Ok, how the hell does an android grow his hair long?????????? He's a synthetic. Wtf?
The hallway is from the Juggernaut
Quote from: Iamwarface on Apr 16, 2017, 07:01:30 AM
Ok, how the hell does an android grow his hair long?????????? He's a synthetic. Wtf?
just like he has skin that heals. because it's 'programmed' to do so.
Quote from: Iamwarface on Apr 16, 2017, 07:01:30 AM
Ok, how the hell does an android grow his hair long?????????? He's a synthetic. Wtf?
An android would be made to artificially mimic organic human life down to small details, thus hair growth wouldn't be out of the question.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Apr 15, 2017, 09:26:49 PM
Quote from: lv_226 on Apr 15, 2017, 07:16:05 PM
Given its size and relative affinity to the derelict on LV-426 (it isn't round and longer like the original design) if this humongous ship is the derelict in Alien?! It would make sense given the cavernous dimensions of the interior of the ship when Kane travels down the egg chamber. What if, during the bombing raid on Paradise, this ship takes off? Idk, pure conjecture.
It's very far from the original derelict design wise. And the Alien derelict is supposedly smaller than the Prometheus juggernaut.
If you remember the description of the CinemaCon footage by io9, it went :
QuoteThe footage started with an arc-like ship flying in the air. Think of it like an upside-down U, with the opening at the bottom. It then links with the iconic ship we recognize from LV-426 and other Alien films—the craft is a similar shape, but is flying in a different configuration.They link with their open ends, kind of like a puzzle, and we realize this is all happening above a civilization of creatures. They aren't humans. Nor are they engineers. They seem to be something in between. It's then that we see David—the android we first met in Prometheus, played by Michael Fassbender—on the ship, where he unleashes hundreds of black canisters.
Add to that the quote from the production designer in the Empire piece :
QuoteThe Engineers discovered a method of travel, something magnetic
So to me it looks like that giant Juggernaut might be some sort of magnetic anchor for the ships, it's their way of landing. It attracts the smaller juggernauts like a giant horseshoe magnet would attract a paper clip.
Exactly. That thing is not a typical juggernaut, it's some sort of hangar or anchor. The juggernaut from Prometheus is the same make and model as the derelict from Alien. We can all gnatf**k over concept art from 1978 if we really want to but it's not going to make a difference in 2017. Derelict=juggernaut/Engineer=space jockey, and David's about to kill them all. Move on with ya lives.
Well, slightly different make. They had to curve it more so it'd roll at the end.
But then it's like a sedan or hatchback version of the same model car.
My thoughts as well m8
GT vs GTX with power steering, or rolling rather.
Quote from: Beardomorph on Apr 16, 2017, 09:52:07 AM
to me it looks like that giant Juggernaut might be some sort of magnetic anchor for the ships, it's their way of landing. It attracts the smaller juggernauts like a giant horseshoe magnet would attract a paper clip.
the juggernaut you see in the image is not gigantic, it's closer to the camera, nothing more, nothing less
Some close up clearer pics.... Thanks to Qubism over @Scified!!
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alien-covenant.com%2Faliencovenant_uploads%2FxEMPIRE_AC_CONTENTS_PAGE_RUNNER_CROP.jpg.pagespeed.ic.l1B9y82H2W.webp&hash=05602d64801bcd7d3b7f6fe0c012aacf0899ffd0)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alien-covenant.com%2Faliencovenant_uploads%2FxEMPIRE_AC_PAGE_7273_CROP_1_ROTATE_CROP.jpg.pagespeed.ic.uIK-EI5Vw8.webp&hash=4794db66e2781427921964676419578d992624d2)
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(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alien-covenant.com%2Faliencovenant_uploads%2FxEMPIRE_AC_PAGE_7475_CROP_2.jpg.pagespeed.ic.iWcEcUuKtn.webp&hash=94a6f281797147c739cff41ce8e1a48acc9d6ee5)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alien-covenant.com%2Faliencovenant_uploads%2FxEMPIRE_AC_PAGE_7475_CROP_3.jpg.pagespeed.ic.WRyXnKQR-a.webp&hash=a39a3de73b2ee6e5720b32eb8d40720d2e671b6c)
i see nothing?
Fixed.
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Apr 16, 2017, 10:48:56 AM
Some close up clearer pics.... Thanks to Qubism over @Scified!!
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alien-covenant.com%2Faliencovenant_uploads%2FxEMPIRE_AC_CONTENTS_PAGE_RUNNER_CROP.jpg.pagespeed.ic.l1B9y82H2W.web&hash=e40db2a84b1a34fb584aa6a5137659e58a288f71)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alien-covenant.com%2Faliencovenant_uploads%2FxEMPIRE_AC_PAGE_7273_CROP_1_ROTATE_CROP.jpg.pagespeed.ic.uIK-EI5Vw8.web&hash=3de1649e8d46fcc1e9705d6f63b69b75a9d7df45)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alien-covenant.com%2Faliencovenant_uploads%2FxEMPIRE_AC_PAGE_7273_CROP_2.jpg.pagespeed.ic.v5J1AUWPV0.web&hash=db935f71dfb92f5cb3a67a0e618b3bbf487f77b1)
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(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alien-covenant.com%2Faliencovenant_uploads%2FxEMPIRE_AC_PAGE_7475_CROP_2.jpg.pagespeed.ic.iWcEcUuKtn.web&hash=6a754cf149c866512cd576f40d5cd28720770de4)
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Quote from: Evanus on Apr 15, 2017, 10:27:07 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Apr 15, 2017, 10:24:20 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Apr 15, 2017, 10:08:02 PM
Yeah, but look at all that make up on his face! Looks much better than those boring bald dudes in Covenant, right?!
They do look better in Prometheus, but in all likelihood we're still just looking at the same Engineer faction.
Might be due to budget and time limitations. On Prometheus they only had to do make-up on a handful of actors, in Covenant they had 30 - 50 Engineer extras.
Yep, you're probably right. And if so, it's a shame they couldn't make them look as good. I was looking forward to seeing engineers again, and now they look like this. :-[
They certainly have the resources to make them look "as good." I'm thinking maybe it's because the Engineers in the first film were 2,000 years older and this group, 2,000+ years in the future, look a bit different? Evolutionary acclimations and such? Wouldn't that make sense?
Damn, I like the big ship.
Engineers look horrible.
I wonder why there are all milling around in that massive open area, almost like they all left the city to go and stand about. Could it be they haven't had any visitors for a long time?
These guys are not 10ft tall that's for sure.
Maybe it's still xmas and they're having a big fat festival. ;D
Quote from: Xenoscream on Apr 16, 2017, 11:41:08 AM
Damn, I like the big ship.
Engineers look horrible.
I wonder why there are all milling around in that massive open area, almost like they all left the city to go and stand about. Could it be they haven't had any visitors for a long time?
These guys are not 10ft tall that's for sure.
It has something to do with the scorpion tale looking ship, and why dont they look like tall engineers?
Quote from: Infected on Apr 16, 2017, 11:47:29 AM
Quote from: Xenoscream on Apr 16, 2017, 11:41:08 AM
Damn, I like the big ship.
Engineers look horrible.
I wonder why there are all milling around in that massive open area, almost like they all left the city to go and stand about. Could it be they haven't had any visitors for a long time?
These guys are not 10ft tall that's for sure.
It has something to do with the scorpion tale looking ship, and why dont they look like tall engineers?
There's 2,000 years between the Engineers we saw in Prometheus and these guys. That might have something to do with how they look now? Perhaps they've (d)evolved to be shorter, more human in feature.
And yeah, I think you're right - maybe they are all confused by the arrival of this ship no one expects and they all gather to check it out,
Spoiler
unwittingly setting themselves up for massacre.
Quote from: shawsbaby on Apr 16, 2017, 11:57:36 AM
Quote from: Infected on Apr 16, 2017, 11:47:29 AM
Quote from: Xenoscream on Apr 16, 2017, 11:41:08 AM
Damn, I like the big ship.
Engineers look horrible.
I wonder why there are all milling around in that massive open area, almost like they all left the city to go and stand about. Could it be they haven't had any visitors for a long time?
These guys are not 10ft tall that's for sure.
It has something to do with the scorpion tale looking ship, and why dont they look like tall engineers?
There's 2,000 years between the Engineers we saw in Prometheus and these guys. That might have something to do with how they look now? Perhaps they've (d)evolved to be shorter, more human in feature.
And yeah, I think you're right - maybe they are all confused by the arrival of this ship no one expects and they all gather to check it out, Spoiler
unwittingly setting themselves up for massacre.
I think these are the "politicians" on an engineer level.
Yeah but there is also a Juggernaut hanging next to the scorpion tale
Given that Paradise seems to be an also terraformed planet rather than their birth origin one, perhaps their smaller size has to do with the planet gravitational field being stronger. And yeah It's also kind of dumb they are all right there, standing like sitting ducks for the epic LeLz that David is about to release upon them.
I also don't like the contrast of the Giger tech (the big scorpion tail, the derelict-type ships, etc) with that Citadel and them urban constructions. So much Star Trek and Star Wars in the end, instead of making the Jockeys a true Biomechanoid race of some sort, or just a race of nanobots who trascended their biological existance long ago, and conform every single piece of the their tech we see, such as the derelict, the jockey, and the very alien as another piece of their tech. Either of the two alternate approaches would have made the Jockeys justice at least.
Scott has really gone the easy star trek way with the Jockey Retconning. All hope left is these ain't the true Jockeys, which of course sounds like the fool's errand at this point.
Yeah, they are very reminiscent of a Star Trek alien race of the week. Especially the costumes.
I don't understand... In what way has Scott retconned the Space Jockey?
-Windebieste.
Quote from: Bojo on Apr 16, 2017, 11:43:50 AM
Maybe it's still xmas and they're having a big fat festival. ;D
"It's Christmas, and I want to open my presents!"
I doubt they all engage in dangerous biological experimentation/engineering, their civilization would surely have classes.
Its like Alien all over, we will probably see this scene like for 2minutes, as with the jockey scene in Alien, and we are already talking about that, it probably intruges us more then the whole xenomorph run and hide stuff.
Ironically
Quote from: windebieste on Apr 16, 2017, 12:47:35 PM
I don't understand... In what way has Scott retconned the Space Jockey?
-Windebieste.
Well this complaint comes up with regard to proportions. People have always complained that Prometheus depicting the Space Jockey as a pilot suit for a large humanoid did not match up with the original, which depending on who you asked either looked like a fossilised alien (although you could write this off as the suit having bio-tech which decomposed), or looked like a suit for a creature with a much larger chest cavity and thinner/longer arms.
But for all intents and purposes, it has been retconned and the humanoid proportions of the 'suit shot' in Prometheus are now canon.
Quote from: Necronomicon II on Apr 16, 2017, 01:11:12 PM
I doubt they all engage in dangerous biological experimentation/engineering, their civilization would surely have classes.
these ones look more like elders, rulers or something
Quote from: fernandito on Apr 16, 2017, 01:32:30 PM
Quote from: Necronomicon II on Apr 16, 2017, 01:11:12 PM
I doubt they all engage in dangerous biological experimentation/engineering, their civilization would surely have classes.
these ones look more like elders, rulers or something
Ah abuelito you may be right.
Quote from: Necronomicon II on Apr 16, 2017, 01:11:12 PM
I doubt they all engage in dangerous biological experimentation/engineering, their civilization would surely have classes.
Agreed, which is why the Engineers have been referred to as a civilization rather than a race. The Engineers we see saw in Prometheus might have been the military arm. It's also possible (probable) their civilization has changed (evolved?) over time.
Quote from: Molecules on Apr 16, 2017, 01:31:13 PM
Quote from: windebieste on Apr 16, 2017, 12:47:35 PM
I don't understand... In what way has Scott retconned the Space Jockey?
-Windebieste.
Well this complaint comes up with regard to proportions. People have always complained that Prometheus depicting the Space Jockey as a pilot suit for a large humanoid did not match up with the original, which depending on who you asked either looked like a fossilised alien (although you could write this off as the suit having bio-tech which decomposed), or looked like a suit for a creature with a much larger chest cavity and thinner/longer arms.
But for all intents and purposes, it has been retconned and the humanoid proportions of the 'suit shot' in Prometheus are now canon.
The problem is with the scene where they look in the eye and the face of the jockey pilot, and you can see that mouth and tongue open.
You see the head and the body is also totally different, i can relate and understand the people who complain about it, IF this is the end result and only engineer/jockey we will ever see.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.tinypic.com%2F4qpovt.jpg&hash=a1edc8d7ab65bd6d1fe245eda751fe5a65e85715)
And maybe in the real final ending of his last movie, he will show us this creature, with 10 second screen time, and it will always be a mystery and he will take it into his grave (Ridley)
Quote from: fernandito on Apr 16, 2017, 01:32:30 PM
Quote from: Necronomicon II on Apr 16, 2017, 01:11:12 PM
I doubt they all engage in dangerous biological experimentation/engineering, their civilization would surely have classes.
these ones look more like elders, rulers or something
So in the Empire magazine still of this Paradise race, we see they are pinkish-skinned, and I think possibly we saw from earlier photos Covenant crew members next to the burnt 'Pompeii' remains that they are proportionally more human than the white-skinned Engineers (have to double check).
Which came first, the chicken or the egg? I still think that the clothing, city layout and technology indicate that the pink-skins are not a highly advanced species, and therefore surely they cannot be mother/elder race to the white-skin Engineers. And the way they are gathered around at the town square, in visible awe, all wearing toga-like robes, reinforces this.
Unless they actually
are advanced, space-faring, masters of bio-tech, and the Engineers are their genetically engineered 'offspring', maybe purpose-built to spread their genes through the galaxy, fight wars, etc.
Quote from: Infected on Apr 16, 2017, 01:42:24 PM
Quote from: Molecules on Apr 16, 2017, 01:31:13 PM
Quote from: windebieste on Apr 16, 2017, 12:47:35 PM
I don't understand... In what way has Scott retconned the Space Jockey?
-Windebieste.
Well this complaint comes up with regard to proportions. People have always complained that Prometheus depicting the Space Jockey as a pilot suit for a large humanoid did not match up with the original, which depending on who you asked either looked like a fossilised alien (although you could write this off as the suit having bio-tech which decomposed), or looked like a suit for a creature with a much larger chest cavity and thinner/longer arms.
But for all intents and purposes, it has been retconned and the humanoid proportions of the 'suit shot' in Prometheus are now canon.
The problem is with the scene where they look in the eye and the face of the jockey pilot, and you can see that mouth and tongue open.
You see the head and the body is also totally different, i can relate and understand the people who complain about it, IF this is the end result and only engineer/jockey we will ever see.
http://i63.tinypic.com/4qpovt.jpg
And maybe in the real final ending of his last movie, he will show us this creature, with 10 second screen time, and it will always be a mystery and he will take it into his grave (Ridley)
Well observed. Hadn't seen it in a while - forgot just how staggeringly different it is to the Prometheus 'pilot suit'. Lol. It really is just an alien skeleton, straight up!
Maybe we'll get a proper Jockey one day, but I've accepted that we probably won't.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Apr 16, 2017, 01:49:55 PM
Maybe we'll get a proper Jockey one day, but I've accepted that we probably won't.
It's ironic that the whole pretext for these prequels began with a desire to address the keystone of the Alien plot - the mystery of the Space Jockey and the 'why' question. They're doing a very good job of rubbing that out. I think this is a result of what we know - that somewhere along the line Ridley decided to graft his 'Chariots of the Gods'/Von Daniken obsession onto his big return to Alien.
Depending on how it all develops, if there are more films after this, I can imagine the 1979 Alien looking like it came from a different universe altogether. It's already happened I think. So far remembering the prequels doesn't exactly enhance the experience of watching Alien.
Quote from: Molecules on Apr 16, 2017, 01:44:14 PM
Quote from: fernandito on Apr 16, 2017, 01:32:30 PM
Quote from: Necronomicon II on Apr 16, 2017, 01:11:12 PM
I doubt they all engage in dangerous biological experimentation/engineering, their civilization would surely have classes.
these ones look more like elders, rulers or something
So in the Empire magazine still of this Paradise race, we see they are pinkish-skinned, and I think possibly we saw from earlier photos Covenant crew members next to the burnt 'Pompeii' remains that they are proportionally more human than the white-skinned Engineers (have to double check).
Which came first, the chicken or the egg? I still think that the clothing, city layout and technology indicate that the pink-skins are not a highly advanced species, and therefore surely they cannot be mother/elder race to the white-skin Engineers. And the way they are gathered around at the town square, in visible awe, all wearing toga-like robes, reinforces this.
Unless they actually are advanced, space-faring, masters of bio-tech, and the Engineers are their genetically engineered 'offspring', maybe purpose-built to spread their genes through the galaxy, fight wars, etc.
Quote from: Infected on Apr 16, 2017, 01:42:24 PM
Quote from: Molecules on Apr 16, 2017, 01:31:13 PM
Quote from: windebieste on Apr 16, 2017, 12:47:35 PM
I don't understand... In what way has Scott retconned the Space Jockey?
-Windebieste.
Well this complaint comes up with regard to proportions. People have always complained that Prometheus depicting the Space Jockey as a pilot suit for a large humanoid did not match up with the original, which depending on who you asked either looked like a fossilised alien (although you could write this off as the suit having bio-tech which decomposed), or looked like a suit for a creature with a much larger chest cavity and thinner/longer arms.
But for all intents and purposes, it has been retconned and the humanoid proportions of the 'suit shot' in Prometheus are now canon.
The problem is with the scene where they look in the eye and the face of the jockey pilot, and you can see that mouth and tongue open.
You see the head and the body is also totally different, i can relate and understand the people who complain about it, IF this is the end result and only engineer/jockey we will ever see.
http://i63.tinypic.com/4qpovt.jpg
And maybe in the real final ending of his last movie, he will show us this creature, with 10 second screen time, and it will always be a mystery and he will take it into his grave (Ridley)
Well observed. Hadn't seen it in a while - forgot just how staggeringly different it is to the Prometheus 'pilot suit'. Lol. It really is just an alien skeleton, straight up!
I couldnt find a bigger picture unfortunately.
But as you look back in the history of comics, a lot of comic drawers/cartoonists, didnt know how to portrait the jockey, some are just laughable as hell.
Ridley really took the easy road in Prometheus with the jockey look, it also makes me wonder, Ridley is a master at filmography and photography, did he choose this road with the jockey so it would be more easy to put realistic on film as it is a tall humanoid looking being and the part could be easily filled with humans and smart camera work.
A couple of things I want to throw out there, perhaps been discussed before:
Can we determine the possibility that the juggernaut ships, both the very bio-mechanical looking drop ship we come to know from Prometheus and Alien, and the new "mother juggernaut" we're seeing here, can these ships be the result of stolen technology?
The city looks like any other ancient civilisation city, with stone and structures; Rome comes to mind when looking at these pictures, especially given the religious nature of the Engineers. So, what if the ships are stolen technology? Maybe this fits in with the civil war aspect, as well as the difference in how these Engineers seem to look, and the suited/military appearance of the ones we saw in Prometheus. The technology doesn't seem to fit with what we're seeing with the city. I'd expected the home world to look a lot like the architecture of the juggernaut. Obviously not.
Perhaps, 2000 years has evolved (or devolved) the species to look more humanoid? Or, are we seeing just another colony of Engineers as part of a greater, more diverse civilisation, a defect of the civil war? Maybe these ships are leftovers from the war with another breed of Engineer. Maybe they're products of a different race entirely.
Ridley has really opened up so much possibility here. It'd be a shame if he wastes all of this new lore. I wanna know things, damn it.
EDIT: and if there's such a diversity, the Jockey might just be another remnant of the Engineers, something completely different from what we've seen. Bigger and more advanced. Or, we're just gonna have to accept the fact that Ridley wanted to change the size to fit in with this new approach. That's something that'll have to be overlooked, I suppose.
why is a guy in tighty whitys holding the magazines in the pictures? ???
I really wish they'd leave the Juggernaut story from the first film alone. I don't won't to know how it got there. But it seems Ridely wants to explain it. I just hope he does it justice when or if the time comes.
Quote from: Citadel on Apr 16, 2017, 02:11:21 PM
A couple of things I want to throw out there, perhaps been discussed before:
Can we determine the possibility that the juggernaut ships, both the very bio-mechanical looking drop ship we come to know from Prometheus and Alien, and the new "mother juggernaut" we're seeing here, can these ships be the result of stolen technology?
The city looks like any other ancient civilisation city, with stone and structures; Rome comes to mind when looking at these pictures, especially given the religious nature of the Engineers. So, what if the ships are stolen technology? Maybe this fits in with the civil war aspect, as well as the difference in how these Engineers seem to look, and the suited/military appearance of the ones we saw in Prometheus. The technology doesn't seem to fit with what we're seeing with the city. I'd expected the home world to look a lot like the architecture of the juggernaut. Obviously not.
Perhaps, 2000 years has evolved (or devolved) the species to look more humanoid? Or, are we seeing just another colony of Engineers as part of a greater, more diverse civilisation, a defect of the civil war? Maybe these ships are leftovers from the war with another breed of Engineer. Maybe they're products of a different race entirely.
Ridley has really opened up so much possibility here. It'd be a shame if he wastes all of this new lore. I wanna know things, damn it.
EDIT: and if there's such a diversity, the Jockey might just be another remnant of the Engineers, something completely different from what we've seen. Bigger and more advanced. Or, we're just gonna have to accept the fact that Ridley wanted to change the size to fit in with this new approach. That's something that'll have to be overlooked, I suppose.
So the scorpion looking vessel could easily be the Derelict, it has the size for 2000 eggs on board.
As it could be piloted by a real jockey. :P
Quote from: Citadel on Apr 16, 2017, 02:11:21 PM
A couple of things I want to throw out there, perhaps been discussed before:
Can we determine the possibility that the juggernaut ships, both the very bio-mechanical looking drop ship we come to know from Prometheus and Alien, and the new "mother juggernaut" we're seeing here, can these ships be the result of stolen technology?
The city looks like any other ancient civilisation city, with stone and structures; Rome comes to mind when looking at these pictures, especially given the religious nature of the Engineers. So, what if the ships are stolen technology? Maybe this fits in with the civil war aspect, as well as the difference in how these Engineers seem to look, and the suited/military appearance of the ones we saw in Prometheus. The technology doesn't seem to fit with what we're seeing with the city. I'd expected the home world to look a lot like the architecture of the juggernaut. Obviously not.
Perhaps, 2000 years has evolved (or devolved) the species to look more humanoid? Or, are we seeing just another colony of Engineers as part of a greater, more diverse civilisation, a defect of the civil war? Maybe these ships are leftovers from the war with another breed of Engineer. Maybe they're products of a different race entirely.
Ridley has really opened up so much possibility here. It'd be a shame if he wastes all of this new lore. I wanna know things, damn it.
EDIT: and if there's such a diversity, the Jockey might just be another remnant of the Engineers, something completely different from what we've seen. Bigger and more advanced. Or, we're just gonna have to accept the fact that Ridley wanted to change the size to fit in with this new approach. That's something that'll have to be overlooked, I suppose.
The juxtaposition between highly advanced technology and a more primitive cultural aesthetic is a pretty common trope in science fiction. I'm thinking of the Vulcans/Romulans in Star Trek.
It's an interesting idea that the Engineers, whoever they really are, have all manner of 'cadet-races' throughout the universe who become genetically modified to bring themselves closer to the Engineer-Ideal. Just as in Kubrick's 2001, where humanity has to jump through several hoops (or phases of history and progress) to reach the Star Child phase of evolution. We might not get to see the real Engineers (exemplified in my mind by Giger's Space Jockey and biomechanical aesthetic) until another movie or two down the line. Maybe that's why the Aliens in this movie aren't biomechanical yet; they haven't been influenced or 'touched' by the real Engineers yet.
Just throwing stuff at the wall here.
Quote from: Valaquen on Apr 16, 2017, 02:52:52 PM
It's an interesting idea that the Engineers, whoever they really are, have all manner of 'cadet-races' throughout the universe who become genetically modified to bring themselves closer to the Engineer-Ideal. Just as in Kubrick's 2001, where humanity has to jump through several hoops (or phases of history and progress) to reach the Star Child phase of evolution. We might not get to see the real Engineers (exemplified in my mind by Giger's Space Jockey and biomechanical aesthetic) until another movie or two down the line. Maybe that's why the Aliens in this movie aren't biomechanical yet; they haven't been influenced or 'touched' by the real Engineers yet.
Just throwing stuff at the wall here.
I've no idea if it's been proven false yet, or simply that no one knows, but don't you think David's
Spoiler
input into creating the bio form of Xeno is the result of his tinkering with AI technology and the Alien? An extension of what the Engineers were doing with the goo, but on a more advanced scale?
I remember reading somewhere that Ridley was just throwing money at Giger to create bigger and bigger designs in Alien, though he did struggle to get that extra financing. Something along those lines, anyway. Even by today's standards, Scott's reasoning for the size difference may be that it's simply not realistic to assume the gigantic size of the Jockey in contrast with humans? The Engineer is more plausible, but then again, why should it be? It really depends how you look at it. There's some who'll come to accept that the "suit" in Prometheus is the true size of the Jockey from Alien, and there's some who'll never come to accept the difference because it rubs out the marvellous work in Alien. I'm kind of indifferent about it; I'm just waiting to see how Covenant pans out, and if the theory of multiple Engineer races is a true one. A more advanced Engineer race, bigger in size, tied into Alien would be the perfect way to flesh out these prequels, maybe two movies down the line. It'd be satisfying for fans of the Jockey's design and size, and it'd surely satisfy fans of the Engineer's and their doings in Prometheus onwards.
I'm not sure Scott cares to explain away the size issue with the Space Jockey from Alien. That said, maybe that was the result of a mutation or a different class of Engineer than we have seen so far (a "god").
Let's face it, people - the engineer in Prometheus is supposed to be the same as the pilot in Alien. Sure, it's not what Ridley was thinking in 1979, but he wasn't thinking this far ahead. In practical terms, it made sense to do what was done in Prometheus.
That's not to say Ridley wouldn't do something different in future films, adding another species. Doubtful, but it could happen. But looking at Alien in 1979 and Prometheus and Covenant as a cohesive well thought out plan is silly. He makes movies, and he will rewrite anything he thinks will work in any future film he makes, the supposed cannon or wishes of people on the internet are irrelevant.
What's relevant is what he wants to make, what he is allowed to make, and if the average moviegoer (not us) will pay to go and see it.
Quote from: zoidy on Apr 16, 2017, 04:56:57 PM
Let's face it, people - the engineer in Prometheus is supposed to be the same as the pilot in Alien. Sure, it's not what Ridley was thinking in 1979, but he wasn't thinking this far ahead. In practical terms, it made sense to do what was done in Prometheus.
That's not to say Ridley wouldn't do something different in future films, adding another species. Doubtful, but it could happen. But looking at Alien in 1979 and Prometheus and Covenant as a cohesive well thought out plan is silly. He makes movies, and he will rewrite anything he thinks will work in any future film he makes, the supposed cannon or wishes of people on the internet are irrelevant.
What's relevant is what he wants to make, what he is allowed to make, and if the average moviegoer (not us) will pay to go and see it.
I don't have a problem with that. I just don't really care to know the story of that particular Engineer and why it crashed on LV-246.
Quote from: Valaquen on Apr 16, 2017, 02:52:52 PM
It's an interesting idea that the Engineers, whoever they really are, have all manner of 'cadet-races' throughout the universe who become genetically modified to bring themselves closer to the Engineer-Ideal. Just as in Kubrick's 2001, where humanity has to jump through several hoops (or phases of history and progress) to reach the Star Child phase of evolution. We might not get to see the real Engineers (exemplified in my mind by Giger's Space Jockey and biomechanical aesthetic) until another movie or two down the line. Maybe that's why the Aliens in this movie aren't biomechanical yet; they haven't been influenced or 'touched' by the real Engineers yet.
Just throwing stuff at the wall here.
Well for all intents and purposes these Juggernaut visitation images might as well be taking place on Earth in the history (dubiously) posited by the Von Daniken books. Ancient aliens imparting knowledge to aid our evolution, having hieroglyphs and monuments built to them, etc. The 2001 parallel is a pretty neat one that must have occurred to Ridley, who brings it up a lot, and whose generation of filmmakers seems to have spend the last fifty years trying to recapture it.
zoidy is right, it seems wishful thinking from many (myself included) that we will see 'real' Space Jockeys. Another freaky alien species from which the Engineers derived the black goo, and maybe even nicked technology, sure, but I don't think we'll get to see giant elephant-men with gangly arms. As cool as that would be.
Quote from: rabidranger on Apr 16, 2017, 02:46:40 PM
The juxtaposition between highly advanced technology and a more primitive cultural aesthetic is a pretty common trope in science fiction. I'm thinking of the Vulcans/Romulans in Star Trek.
This is a fair point, but I'm struggling to think of more recent examples. The tenor of the Alien prequels is going for a sort of dark, speculative SF, techno-realism. TOS and TNG were (aesthetically at least) high camp by comparison. The Romulans were supposed to be a belligerent, warlike imperial power like the Romans, thus their name.
Potential higher beings needn't be true Jockeys or space elephants, Scott's mentioned "God" before, so I wouldn't rule out some other big bad just yet. If they're going to re-create that specific engineer on 426 as accurately as possible then they'll have to account for the specific variations, especially if his circumstances represent ground zero for everything that will follow, so for that reason I think they'll approach it very carefully.
I don't like the idea of the engineers apparent extinction.. i find it a cheap way out of just ridding them easily from the story. Is it really that possible to do that to such an advanced race? I highly doubt it.. that ship would have been noticed long before it hit their planet and it would have been intercepted.. if the engineers are truly gone then i feel i would have been robbed of everything i wanted to see of them and know about them. And wheee is the mothership from the first movie? I doubt that will be in covenent.
Quote from: Necronomicon II on Apr 16, 2017, 06:11:59 PM
Potential higher beings needn't be true Jockeys or space elephants, Scott's mentioned "God" before, so I wouldn't rule out some other big bad just yet.
This is what I've been expecting/hoping for further down the line (and this is where the Cthulu-heads go crazy speculating).
It seems we won't get anywhere near that in Covenant. At the very most perhaps a sting at the end which sets up a bigger picture, like the Deacon scene but without a reveal (just my opinion - I feel like if there was something mind-blowing it would have trickled down through the leaks and there'd be more rampant speculation).
Quote from: shawsbaby on Apr 16, 2017, 11:19:56 AM
They certainly have the resources to make them look "as good."
8 hour make-up sessions for each of the 50 Engineer extras every day?
Quote from: shawsbaby on Apr 16, 2017, 11:19:56 AM
I'm thinking maybe it's because the Engineers in the first film were 2,000 years older and this group, 2,000+ years in the future, look a bit different? Evolutionary acclimations and such? Wouldn't that make sense?
Quote from: shawsbaby on Apr 16, 2017, 11:57:36 AM
There's 2,000 years between the Engineers we saw in Prometheus and these guys. That might have something to do with how they look now? Perhaps they've (d)evolved to be shorter, more human in feature.
There's very little discernible evolutionary difference between humans of 2000 years ago and humans of today, the same would likely be the case with Engineers. Evolution takes a lot more time. Granted, we're generally a bit taller and healthier today but that's more due to better nutrition and health care than anything else.
Quote from: Molecules on Apr 16, 2017, 05:50:19 PM
Quote from: Valaquen on Apr 16, 2017, 02:52:52 PM
It's an interesting idea that the Engineers, whoever they really are, have all manner of 'cadet-races' throughout the universe who become genetically modified to bring themselves closer to the Engineer-Ideal. Just as in Kubrick's 2001, where humanity has to jump through several hoops (or phases of history and progress) to reach the Star Child phase of evolution. We might not get to see the real Engineers (exemplified in my mind by Giger's Space Jockey and biomechanical aesthetic) until another movie or two down the line. Maybe that's why the Aliens in this movie aren't biomechanical yet; they haven't been influenced or 'touched' by the real Engineers yet.
Just throwing stuff at the wall here.
Well for all intents and purposes these Juggernaut visitation images might as well be taking place on Earth in the history (dubiously) posited by the Von Daniken books. Ancient aliens imparting knowledge to aid our evolution, having hieroglyphs and monuments built to them, etc. The 2001 parallel is a pretty neat one that must have occurred to Ridley, who brings it up a lot, and whose generation of filmmakers seems to have spend the last fifty years trying to recapture it.
zoidy is right, it seems wishful thinking from many (myself included) that we will see 'real' Space Jockeys. Another freaky alien species from which the Engineers derived the black goo, and maybe even nicked technology, sure, but I don't think we'll get to see giant elephant-men with gangly arms. As cool as that would be.
Quote from: rabidranger on Apr 16, 2017, 02:46:40 PM
The juxtaposition between highly advanced technology and a more primitive cultural aesthetic is a pretty common trope in science fiction. I'm thinking of the Vulcans/Romulans in Star Trek.
This is a fair point, but I'm struggling to think of more recent examples. The tenor of the Alien prequels is going for a sort of dark, speculative SF, techno-realism. TOS and TNG were (aesthetically at least) high camp by comparison. The Romulans were supposed to be a belligerent, warlike imperial power like the Romans, thus their name.
All I'm saying (not that you're necessarily disagreeing) is that for as advanced as the Engineers are they seem to retain a more "grounded" approach to things like architecture and clothing. Maybe it's part of their religious customs or something. They do seem to be based on ancient Rome/Greece.
So is this an actual production photo?
It's probably just a shot from the film.
Yeah, they had Javier Botet do some motion capture work. That is probably one of his scenes.
Quote from: Sabres21768 on Apr 16, 2017, 07:19:36 PM
So is this an actual production photo?
Man, that looks amazing.
Love how it's tail is wrapped around the victim's leg.
Wonder who it is?
It looks so much like Huante's Fifield mutant concept art, its amazing. Glad we actually get to see it in action.
Engineers in those photos have to be civilians no? I mean the difference from them and the prometheus engineers is huge.. maybe it's a way of separating different types.. the warriors or soldiers are bigger and much better built, where as the civilians/workers are much smaller and different in feature. I reckon there has to be 3-4 types.. the elders, oversee everything, the soldiers/warriors, protect and travel space seeking out other planets and sites to conduct their work. the scientists, much similar to the soldiers in features and size but they also travel with the soldiers. And i reckon they have more than one planet colonised.
How are we supposed to care about John Logan's ten page treatment if it is guaranteed to be thrown out in the next 12 months?
In this one article alone, it begins with the filmmakers scrapping their original project for unknown reasons (boredom, by the sounds of it?) and going with a completely different approach. By the end, we're supposed to be excited for the sequel they are planning?
Quote from: Protozoid on Apr 16, 2017, 08:03:26 PM
How are we supposed to care about John Logan's ten page treatment if it is guaranteed to be thrown out in the next 12 months?
In this one article alone, it begins with the filmmakers scrapping their original project for unknown reasons (boredom, by the sounds of it?) and going with a completely different approach. By the end, we're supposed to be excited for the sequel they are planning?
That's just how the creative process works, dude.
Things change constantly for any number of reasons.
That said, Scott & co. definitely seem like they're more confident in the direction they're going. Whatever that may be...
We can go around and around, but the fact is there are no other space jockeys anymore.
The space jockeys are the Engineers.
The Engineers (with a slightly altered look) are on their homeworld in Alien: Covenant.
David kills them off because Ridley Scott got bored in between movies and wants to end that story thread.
The end of the space jockey.
If that feels rushed or like a copout, that's because IMO it is. But it also is what's happening here. I don't like it either but making a ton of excuses and trying to think your way around it is never going to change that.
I would love to think I won't come back in a couple years and see a 10-page thread of people debating when we'll soon see 'the real space jockey' based on differences in curvature in concept art from the late '70s, but I am not holding my breath.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 16, 2017, 08:34:57 PM
We can go around and around, but the fact is there are no other space jockeys anymore.
What evidence do you have of this? Nothing Ridley has said in the interviews or set visits has indicated that they're completely done with the Engineers.
Yeah, I get it, we're all disappointed that the series pivoted back to being more horror/Alien-centric rather than starting a new franchise where we learn more about the Engineer civilization and how they use their biomechanical toilets or whatever. But that's no reason to assume you can read Ridley Scott's mind.
Quote from: acidreign on Apr 16, 2017, 08:34:04 PM
Quote from: Protozoid on Apr 16, 2017, 08:03:26 PM
How are we supposed to care about John Logan's ten page treatment if it is guaranteed to be thrown out in the next 12 months?
In this one article alone, it begins with the filmmakers scrapping their original project for unknown reasons (boredom, by the sounds of it?) and going with a completely different approach. By the end, we're supposed to be excited for the sequel they are planning?
That's just how the creative process works, dude.
Things change constantly for any number of reasons.
Exactly. We're not actually entitled to anything, not jockeys being what we imagined they were, not the movies we are excited about necessarily being
good ... we're just lucky movies are being made on a topic we enjoy. And that process is complicated. If they turn out rubbish ... we've still got other movies we can rewatch ;D
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Apr 15, 2017, 04:32:24 PM
And what is going on here??
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.scified.com%2Ftopics%2F555280244985561.jpg&hash=4bf784102169b1ea0cce1bea617e16739d0674c7)
David letting Walter try some of the local Engineer grown weed.
Hey, he's had the long hippie hair, might as well. :P
But jokes aside, it looks like the flute as others have pointed out. :)
Quote from: acidreign on Apr 16, 2017, 08:59:16 PM
What evidence do you have of this? Nothing Ridley has said in the interviews or set visits has indicated that they're completely done with the Engineers.
The corpses are called 'deadgineers' by the crew. This is their homeworld. What more do we need, a treasure map?
Quote from: Sabres21768 on Apr 16, 2017, 07:49:57 PM
Love how it's tail is wrapped around the victim's leg.
Wonder who it is?
It looks so much like Huante's Fifield mutant concept art, its amazing. Glad we actually get to see it in action.
Yeah, I'm very happy with how the Neomorph has turned out in that shot. Not sure about the CGI though from the tv spot that was released.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 16, 2017, 10:12:12 PM
Quote from: acidreign on Apr 16, 2017, 08:59:16 PM
What evidence do you have of this? Nothing Ridley has said in the interviews or set visits has indicated that they're completely done with the Engineers.
The corpses are called 'deadgineers' by the crew. This is their homeworld. What more do we need, a treasure map?
It probably is the homeworld, but as for it being the overall extinction of the species?
I'm not to sure about that.
Quote from: echobbase79 on Apr 16, 2017, 10:12:37 PM
It probably is the homeworld, but as for it being the overall extinction of the species? I'm not to sure about that.
Maybe, but I think they're done. I think Scott is washing his hands and sticking to the object of his fascination (Fassbender/David) while going back to the perceived moneymaker - the alien. I find it lazy, but there we are. Don't hold your breath.
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Apr 16, 2017, 09:54:16 PM
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Apr 15, 2017, 04:32:24 PM
And what is going on here??
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.scified.com%2Ftopics%2F555280244985561.jpg&hash=4bf784102169b1ea0cce1bea617e16739d0674c7)
David letting Walter try some of the local Engineer grown weed.
Hey, he's had the long hippie hair, might as well. :P
But jokes aside, it looks like the flute as others have pointed out. :)
It is a flute.
Spoiler
David is teaching Walter how to play, trying to encourage him to create and learn outside his programming.
But we still have the Space Jockey from the first film, right?
But like I said before I hope he doesn't even touch that. I want that to be an isolated incident that no future film talks about. That's one reason I'm glad the original planned prequel was changed to something different.
Quote from: echobbase79 on Apr 16, 2017, 10:25:51 PM
But we still have the Space Jockey from the first film, right?
I'm pretty sure it's still been dead for thousands of years. But there's always the chance Ridley will decide it's Daniels (or David) in the flight suit.
QuoteBut like I said before I hope he doesn't even touch that. I want that to be an isolated incident that no future film talks about. That's one reason I'm glad the original planned prequel was changed to something different.
I actually think it is more likely to be tampered with now than before.
Covenant is all about directly prequelizing the franchise with an actual alien and all the usual iconography out in the wild 20 years before the
Nostromo, checking every single box, which IMO cheapens the original film. This story gives you easy new answers which I find sad.
Say what you will about
Prometheus, but it treated the events on LV-426 and in the
Alien franchise to be side issues only delicately touched upon, ancillary to the bigger mysteries of the Engineers and their other nefarious cosmic deeds. There was IMO plenty to explore with their other crazy experiments and nonsense while leaving the events that led to the space jockey of
Alien as vaguely explicated as they were by the reveal of the Engineers' great catastrophe in
Prometheus - which did not violate existing canon.
But the alien sells tickets, so here we are.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 16, 2017, 10:21:14 PM
Quote from: echobbase79 on Apr 16, 2017, 10:12:37 PM
It probably is the homeworld, but as for it being the overall extinction of the species? I'm not to sure about that.
I hope there's enough room for David, the alien and the engineers. That twisted family tree is what's fascinating to me and makes it more complex.
Maybe, but I think they're done. I think Scott is washing his hands and sticking to the object of his fascination (Fassbender/David) while going back to the perceived moneymaker - the alien. I find it lazy, but there we are. Don't hold your breath.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 16, 2017, 10:29:28 PM
Quote from: echobbase79 on Apr 16, 2017, 10:25:51 PM
But we still have the Space Jockey from the first film, right?
I'm pretty sure it's still been dead for thousands of years. But there's always the chance Ridley will decide it's Daniels (or David) in the flight suit.
QuoteBut like I said before I hope he doesn't even touch that. I want that to be an isolated incident that no future film talks about. That's one reason I'm glad the original planned prequel was changed to something different.
I actually think it is more likely to be tampered with now than before. Covenant is all about directly prequelizing the franchise with an actual alien and all the usual iconography out in the wild 20 years before the Nostromo, checking every single box, which IMO cheapens the original film. This story gives you easy new answers which I find sad.
Say what you will about Prometheus, but it treated the events on LV-426 and in the Alien franchise to be side issues only delicately touched upon, ancillary to the bigger mysteries of the Engineers and their other nefarious cosmic deeds. There was IMO plenty to explore with their other crazy experiments and nonsense while leaving the events that led to the space jockey of Alien as vaguely explicated as they were by the reveal of the Engineers' great catastrophe in Prometheus - which did not violate existing canon.
But the alien sells tickets, so here we are.
I hope not. :-\
Now that would be pretty sad.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 16, 2017, 10:29:28 PM
Quote from: echobbase79 on Apr 16, 2017, 10:25:51 PM
But we still have the Space Jockey from the first film, right?
I'm pretty sure it's still been dead for thousands of years. But there's always the chance Ridley will decide it's Daniels (or David) in the flight suit.
QuoteBut like I said before I hope he doesn't even touch that. I want that to be an isolated incident that no future film talks about. That's one reason I'm glad the original planned prequel was changed to something different.
I actually think it is more likely to be tampered with now than before. Covenant is all about directly prequelizing the franchise with an actual alien and all the usual iconography out in the wild 20 years before the Nostromo, checking every single box, which IMO cheapens the original film. This story gives you easy new answers which I find sad.
Say what you will about Prometheus, but it treated the events on LV-426 and in the Alien franchise to be side issues only delicately touched upon, ancillary to the bigger mysteries of the Engineers and their other nefarious cosmic deeds. There was IMO plenty to explore with their other crazy experiments and nonsense while leaving the events that led to the space jockey of Alien as vaguely explicated as they were by the reveal of the Engineers' great catastrophe in Prometheus - which did not violate existing canon.
But the alien sells tickets, so here we are.
I agree with this assessment.
Prometheus ultimately isn't great but it certainly left enough breadcrumbs for better sequels along the way. I would have loved if
Paradise had been made as a film with parallel storylines of David and Shaw on their way to their destination - Shaw sickly from her c-section infection and unable to heal properly because the Engineer sleep-pod is much too large for her, David wandering around the ship they absconded with, finding and messing with other weaponry he finds tucked away, perhaps even some dormant eggs he awakens? - and a Weyland Yutani crew coming to find what happened to the
Prometheus crew and perhaps encountering Engineers who've come for similar reasons. There would have been plenty of ways to hint at the events leading up to
Alien without hitting anyone over the head (and correcting the mistake of how frustratingly vague Lindelof left things).
So, yeah, what I'm seeing of
Covenant seems like it will be fun to watch and well-made, but I suspect I'll remain disappointed they didn't take advantage of the framework
Prometheus allowed for.
I suppose there's no need to check this site ever again because we've figured out exactly where the franchise is going. Time to close up shop, AVPGalaxy! Just change your name to Predator Galaxy because the Alien series is done!
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 16, 2017, 10:29:28 PM
Quote from: echobbase79 on Apr 16, 2017, 10:25:51 PM
But we still have the Space Jockey from the first film, right?
I'm pretty sure it's still been dead for thousands of years. But there's always the chance Ridley will decide it's Daniels (or David) in the flight suit.
QuoteBut like I said before I hope he doesn't even touch that. I want that to be an isolated incident that no future film talks about. That's one reason I'm glad the original planned prequel was changed to something different.
I actually think it is more likely to be tampered with now than before. Covenant is all about directly prequelizing the franchise with an actual alien and all the usual iconography out in the wild 20 years before the Nostromo, checking every single box, which IMO cheapens the original film. This story gives you easy new answers which I find sad.
Say what you will about Prometheus, but it treated the events on LV-426 and in the Alien franchise to be side issues only delicately touched upon, ancillary to the bigger mysteries of the Engineers and their other nefarious cosmic deeds. There was IMO plenty to explore with their other crazy experiments and nonsense while leaving the events that led to the space jockey of Alien as vaguely explicated as they were by the reveal of the Engineers' great catastrophe in Prometheus - which did not violate existing canon.
But the alien sells tickets, so here we are.
Honing in on the origin of the alien was inevitable with this, I think. Having the alien as barely a footnote in Prometheus worked then but eventually there needed to be a more substantial role for it. Otherwise these new films might as well not be a part of this franchise.
If these prequels had totally ditched the alien and focused on the engineers it could just as easily have cheapened the whole thing as well. Ridley doesn't seem to be interested in creating some kind of macabre giger-esque world - that influence is relegated to some extraterrestrial visuals and that's about it.
After Prometheus and seeing the engineers in Covenant, I'm personally glad they're one and done. I can't wait to see the look on their faces when my boy David shows up.
We don't know that they're one and done though!
I mean if David has escaped from Paradise at the end of Covenant (as indicated by test screening leaks) and is truly responsible for the existence of the aliens as we know them, then these prequels are going to have explain the LV-426 derelict. And if we're still going to do that we have to involve the Engineers and/or their technology somehow.
There's so much we don't know. It's getting ridiculous how presumptuous some of us are being. I think in this age of instant access to leaks and rumors we get a false sense of omnipotence and start thinking we can peer directly into the Scott Free production offices.
And some of us get bitter when the series goes in a different direction than the one we pictured in our head and consequently start assuming the absolute worst about everything. It gets suffocating and toxic after a while.
And the kicker is that none of us has even seen the finished movie yet!
Completely agree with everything you wrote.
We haven't seen it yet but
Spoiler
we know from spoilers that David wipes out the engineers, and one of the test screenings didn't even include the actual bombing scene. The film will be portraying them as a decimated population either way.
Quote from: acidreign on Apr 16, 2017, 08:34:04 PM
Quote from: Protozoid on Apr 16, 2017, 08:03:26 PM
How are we supposed to care about John Logan's ten page treatment if it is guaranteed to be thrown out in the next 12 months?
In this one article alone, it begins with the filmmakers scrapping their original project for unknown reasons (boredom, by the sounds of it?) and going with a completely different approach. By the end, we're supposed to be excited for the sequel they are planning?
That's just how the creative process works, dude.
Things change constantly for any number of reasons.
That said, Scott & co. definitely seem like they're more confident in the direction they're going. Whatever that may be...
Does anybody genuinely believe that the return to the Alien branding is motivated by anything other than money?
This isn't about the creative process. This is the opposite. This is about the creative process being arrested, diverted, blocked, and manipulated into a product that stands in stark contrast to the one they've been promising for nearly half a decade.
It's motivated by the fact that a shit ton of us want to see Alien movies and we're waving our money in the air. People don't make movies for free. They have families too feed and bank account to adorn. Everybody's time is valuable.
It will be too much hassle for ridley to bring the xenomorph back into the spotlight if he has engineers to deal with to.. so i think he has used a planet where these so called alien creatures that kinda look like engineers actually worship the true engineers, they are in no way the same size as the engineers we seem to know.. maybe they were the first take on creating life.. and turned out similar in feature to the engineers but not in size or intelligence. And i guess that is why they seem to all gather together to see the the ship shaw and david are on because they believe it to be the engineers they worship coming to visit. The planet in question does not seem to very advanced.. and judging by the start of prometheus i believe the ship shaw and david are on are simply scout ships and ships for travelling here and there, because the mother ship from prometheus does not seem to pop up anywhere else indicating to me that we are not on their homeworld..so unless the planet has a population of millions which is does not, i doubt where on the engineers homeworld.
Spoiler
Well, hopefully that will all be cleared up after David decimates the engineers out of canon.
QuoteDoes anybody genuinely believe that the return to the Alien branding is motivated by anything other than money?
Does anybody genuinely believe that any Alien sequel is motivated by anything other than money? Or indeed the original?
It's called show business for a reason.
Quote from: SM on Apr 17, 2017, 01:27:07 AM
QuoteDoes anybody genuinely believe that the return to the Alien branding is motivated by anything other than money?
Does anybody genuinely believe that any Alien sequel is motivated by anything other than money? Or indeed the original?
It's called show business for a reason.
Exactly.
Spoiler
RIP Engineers
I'm of the opinion that the only reason it has taken so long to get a sequel to Prometheus out was that for a long time, the creative team were in denial that the only road they had left open for themselves was an Alien movie.
The black goo makes Xenomorphs. That's exactly what it does. We see the results of a black goo outbreak in Prometheus, and it results in a Xenomorph-like organism.
The whole goal of Prometheus, to create a franchise that "points away" from Alien and tells its own story, was a failure. The movie ends with Shaw and David going to the Engineer homeworld with a ship filled with Xenomorph-making-juice. There is no other sequel to that movie that is not at least somewhat similar to the situation presented in Alien: Covenant. Shaw and David left in the direction of an Alien movie and there is no way to write around it, so they embraced it.
Look, I love Prometheus. I hope there's some Engineers still out there who are gonne be pissed off about what happened to their homeworld. But this is the sequel we honestly should have expected given the ending of Prometheus.
If they really wanted to accomplish their goal, you know what they should have done? Put that Xenomorph mural next to the black goo room where there clearly was an outbreak. Nobody goes in that room, and instead they stumble into another room, with a different set of urns filled with a different black goo that makes a different Giger monster. That would have been f**king cool. The next best idea for a monster was already used for Species' Sil, but maybe they could have used this guy (http://redbubble-marketing.s3.amazonaws.com/blog/jun_giger1.jpg). it looks like a demon or a fallen angel, perfect for Prometheus' themes!
Quote from: acidreign on Apr 16, 2017, 11:49:23 PM
We don't know that they're one and done though!
I mean if David has escaped from Paradise at the end of Covenant (as indicated by test screening leaks) and is truly responsible for the existence of the aliens as we know them, then these prequels are going to have explain the LV-426 derelict. And if we're still going to do that we have to involve the Engineers and/or their technology somehow.
There's so much we don't know. It's getting ridiculous how presumptuous some of us are being. I think in this age of instant access to leaks and rumors we get a false sense of omnipotence and start thinking we can peer directly into the Scott Free production offices.
And some of us get bitter when the series goes in a different direction than the one we pictured in our head and consequently start assuming the absolute worst about everything. It gets suffocating and toxic after a while.
And the kicker is that none of us has even seen the finished movie yet!
This needs to be pinned.
I agree.. it should be pinned.
Petr Švancara
I said that myself a few comments down.
Aye
At the end of Prometheus, Dr. Shaw say, that she want to go where they come from, not to their homeworld. There was not mentioned even one word about something as their direct homeworld. Only in deleted scenes she say, that she want to go to paradise (who not) So, it is evident that planet where Covenant take place is another terraformed colony where is another race created by Engineers.
If the Engineers could create the Humans, then they can also create another different species. These humanoids are not Engineers, maybe that they have similar clothes like the elder Engineers from deleted scenes at the beginning of Prometheus, yes they have bald heads, but that does not make them Engineers. We see that these humanoids live in city that is different in the terms of design and architecture than anything that is connected to the true Engineers.
There are only some statues, in Citadel wee have the sculpture heads of the elder Engineers. In the center of the plaza we have similar landing ground like we see at the end of Prometheus.
And that is all, of course that in the whole movie we could see much more, but at this point, we can clearly see that these humanoids are almost like us, intelligent and organized.
I think that wee see mostly the parts of their own structures with only the small combination of some original aspects that Engineers have.
It seems that long time ago, Engineers leave them, and let them alone. Maybe that is the reason why they want to meet their own creators once again (in the case that they really know who created them).
I guess, they are thinking this is just another visitation, it is very important for them. They come to see it at their own eyes, even the landing ground opens for the Juggernaut ship. Later in the movie, we see that exact langing ground fully open.
And what about this new "Scorpion" ship? Is it the ship of the these humanoids? I dont think so.
Because if this is their ship, then some of them can survive the whole disaster. I dont know what to think about it, but it seems this "scorpion" ship could even attack the Juggernaut with David and Dr. Shaw on board. Perhaps this ship is there to defend the entire city, who know? Juggernaut ship crash-landed somewhere in the forests, this could mean that once the David start killing these humanoids, "scorpion" ship could respond on that with shooting. It should be logical.
If you remember the beginning of Prometheus, there was a huge circle-shaped ship. Once the Engineer drink the black goo, the ship flew away. Remember the movement of the ship moments before it leaves the planet? that ship flew straight-up. This "scorpion" ship here is standing similar like the circle-shaped ship once it leaving the planet, thats no coincidence.
I apologize for my English, Im from Czech Republic, Europe. English is not my language.
Thanks for reading this! Im waiting for this movie since the end of Prometheus. I love both Alien and Predator movies.
But wasn't there all kinds of different pitches from writers for a Prometheus 2? I remember reading a report on this site where there were going to be ten David's in the movie. I think Michael Fassbender was quoted as saying this.
Quote from: shawsbaby on Apr 16, 2017, 11:08:42 PM
There would have been plenty of ways to hint at the events leading up to Alien without hitting anyone over the head (and correcting the mistake of how frustratingly vague Lindelof left things).
I don't even think that it's that vague, honestly. We know the Engineers had a disaster with their bioweapons that destroyed their civilization - we've had Ridley hinting at that since 1979. Now we know a bit more about it and we know it happened across the galaxy. The end. To me that would've been more than enough to tell re: the events of
Alien or on LV-426. If they wanted to explore aspects of the alien's creation re: the Engineers that would've been fine, but why insist on zeroing back in on the original planet, the original derelict and the original movie? Or
Spoiler
putting the alien's genesis, which is supposed to have been mythic, in the hands of another evil android who just now turned up only 30 years prior to Alien?
QuoteSo, yeah, what I'm seeing of Covenant seems like it will be fun to watch and well-made, but I suspect I'll remain disappointed they didn't take advantage of the framework Prometheus allowed for.
Oh, I think it looks like a blast and a fun time - it's impeccably made, clearly - and I expect to enjoy it as a spooky ride. But I'm just really disappointed the franchise is lowering itself to more direct prequels of a classic movie that really does not need them. I think it demeans the franchise and f**ks with the history to have aliens running around two decades before the
Nostromo, and I think the idea of who may actually be responsible for them is really garden-variety and banal. Not saying
Prometheus was perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but you can still do this kind of dark body horror and creepy Giger space monsters in a movie that goes to new places instead of retreading old ones.
Why are people continually saying throughout this entire thread that the humanoids we see in the article are the same as the Engineers from Prometheus? It's CLEAR that the Engineers had a very specific look, they all head the same face - marble white, roman god, statuesque, giants. These guys in the article are a little pink and a bit orcish looking. They aren't going to abandon that iconic look because they needed to keep things within budget..
It's still totally plausible that this is another civilization that the Engineers seeded, like mankind on Earth, but these humanoids have been in touch with the Engineers throughout the history of their civilization. The Engineers influenced and shaped their culture. Controlled experiment vs. experiment that is left to variables and chaos. We are the latter. We were left to go with the wind.
That's why we aren't seeing the Giger influence in architecture yet. That's why they seem a bit more primative. These guys have giant head stutues that they seem to prize and worship to a degree of the Engineers from Prometheus. If these guys were actually Engineers, why would they be looking to the sky in curiosity or surpise at the arrival of the ship? Ships leaving and arriving would have to be a regular occurance if they're a space-faring civilization, no? I think, because of their awe-struck reaction to the Juggernaut's arrival, the arrival of this ship is a special occurance and they probably thought it was the actual Engineers arriving. Maybe the Engineers check up on these guys every so often?
Quote from: CoalescedChaos on Apr 17, 2017, 04:15:12 AM
Why are people continually saying throughout this entire thread that the humanoids we see in the article are the same as the Engineers from Prometheus?
Because according to the actual filmmakers they are the Engineers.
They changed the makeup a little. That's all. Sorry.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 17, 2017, 04:30:01 AM
Quote from: CoalescedChaos on Apr 17, 2017, 04:15:12 AM
Why are people continually saying throughout this entire thread that the humanoids we see in the article are the same as the Engineers from Prometheus?
Because according to the actual filmmakers they are the Engineers.
They changed the makeup a little. That's all. Sorry.
Where exactly can I read that the crew says they're the same as the Engineers from Prometheus?
Quote from: CoalescedChaos on Apr 17, 2017, 04:35:09 AM
Where exactly can I read that the crew says they're the same as the Engineers from Prometheus?
The crew calls them 'deadgineers'. The planet is the Engineers' homeworld.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 17, 2017, 04:38:04 AM
The crew calls them 'deadgineers'. The planet is the Engineers' homeworld.
Do you have a link or anything for "deadgineers" and the planet being designated as the home world of the Engineers from Prometheus?
These are the Engineers...
I doubt the hooded figures were seeding earth -- it's far too unbelievable for Scott to have thrown away the entire theory of evolution just for a plot point. It would be unforgivable. Evolution is a theory with as many doubters among scientists as the theory that the earth revolves around the sun.
Quote from: Barak-Har on Apr 17, 2017, 05:11:03 AM
I doubt the hooded figures were seeding earth -- it's far too unbelievable for Scott to have thrown away the entire theory of evolution just for a plot point. It would be unforgivable. Evolution is a theory with as many doubters among scientists as the theory that the earth revolves around the sun.
Evolution and the seeding theory can co-exist.
Quote from: CoalescedChaos on Apr 17, 2017, 05:22:27 AM
Quote from: Barak-Har on Apr 17, 2017, 05:11:03 AM
I doubt the hooded figures were seeding earth -- it's far too unbelievable for Scott to have thrown away the entire theory of evolution just for a plot point. It would be unforgivable. Evolution is a theory with as many doubters among scientists as the theory that the earth revolves around the sun.
Evolution and the seeding theory can co-exist.
Especially since the Alien franchise is a work of fiction, centered around a fantastical biomechanical penis monster.
Alright, C'mon, Keep it going. This is rumor control. At precisely 0800 hours, a 4th generation military craft, piloted by an unknown number of entities, entered our atmosphere. At precisely 0800 hours and 30 seconds, the craft launched an aerial bombardment on our 5th annual fellowship breakfast. The entities...are...hostile. We expect the ordinance to impact momentarily. Once again, this has been "Rumor Control". ;)
On a serious note, the neomorph looks terrifying. The main picture of the Alien in what appears to be a ventilation shaft of some kind is beautiful, and I sincerely hope it's a scene that appears in the film and not just the advertising campaign. The engineers, if that's what they are in this film, do look a bit goofy. They've got that whole "peanut allergy" look going on there. There really seems to be a lot more meat to this film than I expected, and I'm interested to see how Ridley and crew will blend all of these pieces together.
i am not worried that these engineers look different. .cause they are different. .a different part of their species. .like they have their milatary type and their civilian type and i am sure they have many homeworlds. . Why should this be the only one?
Castes? Maybe...
There's still too many questions to ask with no real answers until the movie comes out - and then that's going to be just the start of even more questions.
People who want easy answers from here on might like to check out before they're disappointed even further. Scott is using the 'ALIEN' property to embrace the ideologies and principles that he has left over from his massive career. He's more interested in packing these movies with his intellectual 'last hurrah' and philosophical concerns & symbolism before he retires. ...or dies. Which ever comes first.
-Windebieste.
I agree, there most likely are several homeworlds, or at least, installations. And I'm starting to suspect that screaming engineer is actually Ron Perlman.
An Engineer hat / baseball cap? :o
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 17, 2017, 06:58:47 AM
And I'm starting to suspect that screaming engineer is actually Ron Perlman.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/66H4XkI1OWAOA/giphy.gif)
Quote from: juxtapose on Apr 17, 2017, 06:47:25 AM
i am not worried that these engineers look different. .cause they are different. .a different part of their species. .like they have their milatary type and their civilian type and i am sure they have many homeworlds. . Why should this be the only one?
Yeah, exactly. We know next to nothing about the Engineers and there's no reason to think they wouldn't be as diverse as humans are.
The neo looks amazing!
As some of the later test screenings had this scene removed, perhaps some of the original feedback (from earlier tests) were negative towards the look of the engineers.
In my opinion, that one shot sticks out like a sore thumb.
I know it's been said before but they look too much like extras from 'The next Generation'.
Considering how exquisite the rest of that scene looks - the engineers could benefit from some CGI enhancements.
Quote from: acidreign on Apr 16, 2017, 11:49:23 PM
We don't know that they're one and done though!
I mean if David has escaped from Paradise at the end of Covenant (as indicated by test screening leaks) and is truly responsible for the existence of the aliens as we know them, then these prequels are going to have explain the LV-426 derelict. And if we're still going to do that we have to involve the Engineers and/or their technology somehow.
There's so much we don't know. It's getting ridiculous how presumptuous some of us are being. I think in this age of instant access to leaks and rumors we get a false sense of omnipotence and start thinking we can peer directly into the Scott Free production offices.
And some of us get bitter when the series goes in a different direction than the one we pictured in our head and consequently start assuming the absolute worst about everything. It gets suffocating and toxic after a while.
And the kicker is that none of us has even seen the finished movie yet!
Fans come to speak freely in their little corner of the internet about their favourite monsters/films and share their ideas and opinions on it, and make their assumptions and theories as well. It's the same everywhere, in star wars forums, star trek etc
What's wrong wtih that?. You look so offended
Quote from: Hard-R on Apr 17, 2017, 06:59:44 AM
An Engineer hat / baseball cap? :o
Thats the same hat, the away team has when it lands.
Time travel confirmed!!!!
Quote from: Hard-R on Apr 17, 2017, 06:59:44 AM
An Engineer hat / baseball cap? :o
Bravo !!
I didn't notice it !
Doesn't look like Shaw or no other lead cast ... Quite strange indeed ... Who is it ?
Quote from: CoalescedChaos on Apr 17, 2017, 04:54:56 AM
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 17, 2017, 04:38:04 AM
The crew calls them 'deadgineers'. The planet is the Engineers' homeworld.
Do you have a link or anything for "deadgineers" and the planet being designated as the home world of the Engineers from Prometheus?
I've heard this from my own intel.
Quote from: echobbase79 on Apr 17, 2017, 02:32:36 AM
But wasn't there all kinds of different pitches from writers for a Prometheus 2? I remember reading a report on this site where there were going to be ten David's in the movie. I think Michael Fassbender was quoted as saying this.
By all accounts they were really struggling to find a location to go with the sequel after Lindelof unboarded. There had been talk from both Spaihts and Lindelof about ideas for a sequel but still seems they struggled with a direction for a while. From the couple of comments from Logan, it sounds like it was him coming aboard that helped them move forward.
Quote from: Barak-Har on Apr 17, 2017, 05:11:03 AM
I doubt the hooded figures were seeding earth -- it's far too unbelievable for Scott to have thrown away the entire theory of evolution just for a plot point. It would be unforgivable. Evolution is a theory with as many doubters among scientists as the theory that the earth revolves around the sun.
The point of Prometheus was we WERE seeded by the engineers, hence the DNA match. I'm not sure how you think that's not what Scott intended?
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 17, 2017, 04:30:01 AM
Quote from: CoalescedChaos on Apr 17, 2017, 04:15:12 AM
Why are people continually saying throughout this entire thread that the humanoids we see in the article are the same as the Engineers from Prometheus?
Because according to the actual filmmakers they are the Engineers.
They changed the makeup a little. That's all. Sorry.
And honestly they probably just had a production meeting where someone suggested it would be more interesting to alter their look a bit to spark some intrigue, everyone agreed, and that's what happened. It would have been easy enough to reuse the same makeup/CGI technique on them.
They look like white Klingons who got their balls cut off.
Anybody else thinks the burster is semi transparent? Look the upheld arm.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alien-covenant.com%2Faliencovenant_uploads%2FxEMPIRE_AC_PAGE_7475_CROP_1.jpg&hash=8ddd5287c6ccbe9da18390e86ef3e4f759465c78)
They don't appear to be engineer.
Ridley since prometheus seems to want to tell what's the "beauty of creation".
It's striking how in Prometheus David & the Engineer seems model on the idea of beauty.
They are way too neat and well thought.
Even the old engineer in the deleted scene. They have variations in their face but keep the very clear neat white color on a greek statue look.
There it seems like the civilization is grotesque, much like human being with a lot of alteration and differences within the same specie.
It's pretty much the opposite of what both David (android) and Engineers are so far.
If I had to bet, we'll see what a Civilization that hasn't betrayed the Engineer like the human did look like.
And we probably gonna learn not more of what are the engineers but what were there plans.
Probably dark and terrible.
Quote from: Le Celticant on Apr 17, 2017, 11:25:30 AM
They don't appear to be engineer.
For the nineteenth time: They are.
Quote from: zoidy on Apr 17, 2017, 10:41:11 AM
Quote from: Barak-Har on Apr 17, 2017, 05:11:03 AM
I doubt the hooded figures were seeding earth -- it's far too unbelievable for Scott to have thrown away the entire theory of evolution just for a plot point. It would be unforgivable. Evolution is a theory with as many doubters among scientists as the theory that the earth revolves around the sun.
The point of Prometheus was we WERE seeded by the engineers, hence the DNA match. I'm not sure how you think that's not what Scott intended?
I think people keep trying to find ways around this in their heads because they just can't accept that this is it for the legendary space jockey. Yes, the Engineer is the space jockey, yes, David has apparently killed off all the space jockeys between movies because Ridley got bored with it and wanted to go back to the alien. I don't particularly like it myself but that's the reality we are dealing with here.
It's a business calculation on his part. It's done. I feel like once the movie's out people will still be saying 'but that wasn't
really the end of the space jockeys! I suspect we'll see the
real ones in the next movie...'
Yeah, sadly they are engineers. :(
I hope they explain why they look so different, but I doubt it.
They are engineers, as you can see in the head room in Prometheus the big head also has that nosebone structure.
I still think these are politicians, and leaders, they dont want any biological stuff near them, its all like a Roman city, just keeping it sexy.
Quote from: Hard-R on Apr 17, 2017, 06:59:44 AM
An Engineer hat / baseball cap? :o
Looks like headgear from Azrach.
Quote from: Valaquen on Apr 17, 2017, 12:23:16 PM
Quote from: Hard-R on Apr 17, 2017, 06:59:44 AM
An Engineer hat / baseball cap? :o
Looks like headgear from Azrach.
Totally.
God I wish they would do an animated Azrach feature.
Quote from: Petr Švancara on Apr 17, 2017, 02:10:30 AM
At the end of Prometheus, Dr. Shaw say, that she want to go where they come from, not to their homeworld. There was not mentioned even one word about something as their direct homeworld. Only in deleted scenes she say, that she want to go to paradise (who not) So, it is evident that planet where Covenant take place is another terraformed colony where is another race created by Engineers.
If the Engineers could create the Humans, then they can also create another different species. These humanoids are not Engineers, maybe that they have similar clothes like the elder Engineers from deleted scenes at the beginning of Prometheus, yes they have bald heads, but that does not make them Engineers. We see that these humanoids live in city that is different in the terms of design and architecture than anything that is connected to the true Engineers.
There are only some statues, in Citadel wee have the sculpture heads of the elder Engineers. In the center of the plaza we have similar landing ground like we see at the end of Prometheus.
And that is all, of course that in the whole movie we could see much more, but at this point, we can clearly see that these humanoids are almost like us, intelligent and organized.
I think that wee see mostly the parts of their own structures with only the small combination of some original aspects that Engineers have.
It seems that long time ago, Engineers leave them, and let them alone. Maybe that is the reason why they want to meet their own creators once again (in the case that they really know who created them).
I guess, they are thinking this is just another visitation, it is very important for them. They come to see it at their own eyes, even the landing ground opens for the Juggernaut ship. Later in the movie, we see that exact langing ground fully open.
And what about this new "Scorpion" ship? Is it the ship of the these humanoids? I dont think so.
Because if this is their ship, then some of them can survive the whole disaster. I dont know what to think about it, but it seems this "scorpion" ship could even attack the Juggernaut with David and Dr. Shaw on board. Perhaps this ship is there to defend the entire city, who know? Juggernaut ship crash-landed somewhere in the forests, this could mean that once the David start killing these humanoids, "scorpion" ship could respond on that with shooting. It should be logical.
If you remember the beginning of Prometheus, there was a huge circle-shaped ship. Once the Engineer drink the black goo, the ship flew away. Remember the movement of the ship moments before it leaves the planet? that ship flew straight-up. This "scorpion" ship here is standing similar like the circle-shaped ship once it leaving the planet, thats no coincidence.
I apologize for my English, Im from Czech Republic, Europe. English is not my language.
Thanks for reading this! Im waiting for this movie since the end of Prometheus. I love both Alien and Predator movies.
That doesn't make any sense. They quite clearly went to the Engineer's homeworld because Shaw wanted to ask them questions.
Quote from: CoalescedChaos on Apr 17, 2017, 04:35:09 AM
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 17, 2017, 04:30:01 AM
Quote from: CoalescedChaos on Apr 17, 2017, 04:15:12 AM
Why are people continually saying throughout this entire thread that the humanoids we see in the article are the same as the Engineers from Prometheus?
Because according to the actual filmmakers they are the Engineers.
They changed the makeup a little. That's all. Sorry.
Where exactly can I read that the crew says they're the same as the Engineers from Prometheus?
The production designer specifically calls them Engineers in the new Empire article and there has been zero talk or indication from the filmmakers that these beings are anything but Engineers.
Quote from: CoalescedChaos on Apr 17, 2017, 05:22:27 AM
Quote from: Barak-Har on Apr 17, 2017, 05:11:03 AM
I doubt the hooded figures were seeding earth -- it's far too unbelievable for Scott to have thrown away the entire theory of evolution just for a plot point. It would be unforgivable. Evolution is a theory with as many doubters among scientists as the theory that the earth revolves around the sun.
Evolution and the seeding theory can co-exist.
No, according to Prometheus humans didn't evolve. They were seeded by the Engineers. Which is why it is problematic for some due to human evolution being established science.
Its alluded to that they seeded all life on earth, letting evolution take over after the initial sacrifice. (possible that they also revisited once in a while to help push human evolution in the right direction)
Quote from: Predaker on Apr 17, 2017, 01:07:14 PM
Quote from: Petr Švancara on Apr 17, 2017, 02:10:30 AM
At the end of Prometheus, Dr. Shaw say, that she want to go where they come from, not to their homeworld. There was not mentioned even one word about something as their direct homeworld. Only in deleted scenes she say, that she want to go to paradise (who not) So, it is evident that planet where Covenant take place is another terraformed colony where is another race created by Engineers.
If the Engineers could create the Humans, then they can also create another different species. These humanoids are not Engineers, maybe that they have similar clothes like the elder Engineers from deleted scenes at the beginning of Prometheus, yes they have bald heads, but that does not make them Engineers. We see that these humanoids live in city that is different in the terms of design and architecture than anything that is connected to the true Engineers.
There are only some statues, in Citadel wee have the sculpture heads of the elder Engineers. In the center of the plaza we have similar landing ground like we see at the end of Prometheus.
And that is all, of course that in the whole movie we could see much more, but at this point, we can clearly see that these humanoids are almost like us, intelligent and organized.
I think that wee see mostly the parts of their own structures with only the small combination of some original aspects that Engineers have.
It seems that long time ago, Engineers leave them, and let them alone. Maybe that is the reason why they want to meet their own creators once again (in the case that they really know who created them).
I guess, they are thinking this is just another visitation, it is very important for them. They come to see it at their own eyes, even the landing ground opens for the Juggernaut ship. Later in the movie, we see that exact langing ground fully open.
And what about this new "Scorpion" ship? Is it the ship of the these humanoids? I dont think so.
Because if this is their ship, then some of them can survive the whole disaster. I dont know what to think about it, but it seems this "scorpion" ship could even attack the Juggernaut with David and Dr. Shaw on board. Perhaps this ship is there to defend the entire city, who know? Juggernaut ship crash-landed somewhere in the forests, this could mean that once the David start killing these humanoids, "scorpion" ship could respond on that with shooting. It should be logical.
If you remember the beginning of Prometheus, there was a huge circle-shaped ship. Once the Engineer drink the black goo, the ship flew away. Remember the movement of the ship moments before it leaves the planet? that ship flew straight-up. This "scorpion" ship here is standing similar like the circle-shaped ship once it leaving the planet, thats no coincidence.
I apologize for my English, Im from Czech Republic, Europe. English is not my language.
Thanks for reading this! Im waiting for this movie since the end of Prometheus. I love both Alien and Predator movies.
That doesn't make any sense. They quite clearly went to the Engineer's homeworld because Shaw wanted to ask them questions.
Quote from: CoalescedChaos on Apr 17, 2017, 04:35:09 AM
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 17, 2017, 04:30:01 AM
Quote from: CoalescedChaos on Apr 17, 2017, 04:15:12 AM
Why are people continually saying throughout this entire thread that the humanoids we see in the article are the same as the Engineers from Prometheus?
Because according to the actual filmmakers they are the Engineers.
They changed the makeup a little. That's all. Sorry.
Where exactly can I read that the crew says they're the same as the Engineers from Prometheus?
The production designer specifically calls them Engineers in the new Empire article and there has been zero talk or indication from the filmmakers that these beings are anything but Engineers.
Quote from: CoalescedChaos on Apr 17, 2017, 05:22:27 AM
Quote from: Barak-Har on Apr 17, 2017, 05:11:03 AM
I doubt the hooded figures were seeding earth -- it's far too unbelievable for Scott to have thrown away the entire theory of evolution just for a plot point. It would be unforgivable. Evolution is a theory with as many doubters among scientists as the theory that the earth revolves around the sun.
Evolution and the seeding theory can co-exist.
No, according to Prometheus humans didn't evolve. They were seeded by the Engineers. Which is why it is problematic for some due to human evolution being established science.
I am not saying you are wrong, I am saying that those interview appear to have been down months before the latest edits to the film (the interviews were done on set as they discuss rehearsing scenes before that quote). The stills are from later version of the film. This means a lot of things have changed from the time the article was written to the version we will see. That has been confirmed by the amount of test screenings and different edits people have reported to have seen. There are reports of that scene even being taken out of one of the versions.
None of us really know and it could all have changed. The movie went through a lot of revisions and looks like it was most put together in post. The exact same thing happened with Prometheus (Fifeld changes, Shaw not being involved with his death, them moving that scene from later in the film to earlier, etc). We will all have a better idea when the preview screenings being.
Quote from: fiveways on Apr 17, 2017, 01:17:45 PM
None of us really know and it could all have changed.
This is like bargaining in the grief process. They killed off the space jockeys, dude. It's done.
;D
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 17, 2017, 01:19:37 PM
Quote from: fiveways on Apr 17, 2017, 01:17:45 PM
None of us really know and it could all have changed.
This is like bargaining in the grief process. They killed off the space jockeys, dude. It's done.
Jesus you're a real buzz kill.
Do you have to systematically shit on everything in Covenant board.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 17, 2017, 09:05:06 AM
Quote from: CoalescedChaos on Apr 17, 2017, 04:54:56 AM
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 17, 2017, 04:38:04 AM
The crew calls them 'deadgineers'. The planet is the Engineers' homeworld.
Do you have a link or anything for "deadgineers" and the planet being designated as the home world of the Engineers from Prometheus?
I've heard this from my own intel.
Quote from: echobbase79 on Apr 17, 2017, 02:32:36 AM
But wasn't there all kinds of different pitches from writers for a Prometheus 2? I remember reading a report on this site where there were going to be ten David's in the movie. I think Michael Fassbender was quoted as saying this.
By all accounts they were really struggling to find a location to go with the sequel after Lindelof unboarded. There had been talk from both Spaihts and Lindelof about ideas for a sequel but still seems they struggled with a direction for a while. From the couple of comments from Logan, it sounds like it was him coming aboard that helped them move forward.
I wonder if we'll ever hear what Lindelof had in mind for the sequel?
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 17, 2017, 01:19:37 PM
Quote from: fiveways on Apr 17, 2017, 01:17:45 PM
None of us really know and it could all have changed.
This is like bargaining in the grief process. They killed off the space jockeys, dude. It's done.
You're reading set reports from last year. I'm waiting to see the movie/read spoilers from the preview screenings before I talk in definite terms as Scott tends to really change movies in editing. I don't know who they currently are. I know at some point they were engineers. I also know at some point that scene was completely edited out of the movie.
Quote from: fiveways on Apr 17, 2017, 01:28:11 PM
You're reading set reports from last year. I'm waiting to see the movie/read spoilers from the preview screenings before I talk in definite terms as Scott tends to really change movies in editing. I don't know who they currently are. I know at some point they were engineers. I also know at some point that scene was completely edited out of the movie.
No, I'm talking about reports from multiple people who have seen the film since then, the same ones we all read. They all say the same thing: David kills the Engineers. The crew is calling them Engineers. The article is calling them Engineers. 1+1 still = 2.
Quote from: hfeldhaus on Apr 17, 2017, 01:24:34 PM
Jesus you're a real buzz kill.
Do you have to systematically shit on everything in Covenant board.
No, I just don't see the point in trying to find some sort of fanwank excuse out of the reality of this movie's story.
Like, we're five years out from
Prometheus but people are still saying the Engineers weren't the real space jockey and that someday the big elephant is gonna show up. Now we've got this thing: 'oh, those aren't the real Engineers'. How many ways does it have to be said? I don't like it either but I don't see what good it does to pretend it isn't happening. The jockeys are now as dead as Hicks and Newt.
Whatever changes were made, the engineers are still not a focal point and the Covenant isn't there as an exploratory expedition like the Prometheus. They're colonists. That they ran a test screening excluding the only scene that very briefly showed living Engineers is a testament to how little of a role they play in this new film.
Exactly. Because Ridley wanted to be done with them. And he killed them off.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 17, 2017, 01:40:08 PM
Exactly. Because Ridley wanted to be done with them. And he killed them off.
That's not based on facts. If Ridley wanted to be done with them he wouldn't have spent so much time and money depicting their civilisation, their main city, the inside of the Citadel ( the hall of Heads ), given them screen time for their downfall on Paradise. If he wanted to be done with them he could very well have gone for a script that had David go anywhere in space that had no Engineers on it and create an Alien film there. So no, if you want to just "look at the facts", Ridley did not want to be done with them.
Did you even read the article? The production designer states that the way they designed the Engineer sets is supposed to create more questions regarding the Engineers that could then be answered in future instalments.
The question I have that will probably be explored in the next movie is why there has been no retaliation from the Engineers that were off Paradise when David's attack happened. We know some Engineers have been travelling in Space for a long time seeding life across the Universe ( well, at least on Earth ), so it's likely that there are still Engineers out there... I find it odd that in ten years no travelling Engineers came back to Paradise. It's possible that Juggernauts travelling with bioweapons capable of destroying civilisations are just not allowed to come anywhere near Paradise. Or else, they travelled so far into space they don't plan on ever coming back to Paradise? The same way the Covenant crew isn't planning on coming back to Earth.
Anyway, for a future movie I wouldn't be surprised if the Engineers were the main antagonists trying to take down David as retaliation for what he's done, and the colonists just happen to be in the way.
There are plenty of options for Engineers of all kinds and sizes to show up down the line, and yeah like I said if Ridley had wanted to "get rid" of the Engineers, he would have just avoided the subject. How many times has Ridley said that the reason he's making these movies is that no one asked the question "who was that guy in the chair?", so saying that Ridley has no interest in the Engineers is pure nonsense.
Why would anyone complain then proceed to pay to see the film? Why the negativity? Let's see what Scott has in store, and adapt. And enjoy!
Quote from: Beardomorph on Apr 17, 2017, 01:57:33 PM
Did you even read the article? The production designer states that the way they designed the Engineer sets is supposed to create more questions regarding the Engineers that could then be answered in future instalments.
'Could.' Ridley always likes a lot of questions and ambiguity, it doesn't mean he answers them. There's also no indication they're ever going back to the planet in
Covenant.
QuoteThe question I have that will probably be explored in the next movie is why there has been no retaliation from the Engineers that were off Paradise when David's attack happened.
Because they're all dead.
Here all week, folks, tip your waiter.
They are all dead or they've heard about this place and are forming an orderly queue....
All makes sense now.
They'll at least live on in the comics if they're all toast. I hate to use this analogy, but like soap operas, anything can be brought back from the dead. So never say never when it comes to Hollywood.
I still don't believe they're Engineers, but for arguments sake, I suppose I'll agree. That being said, They're clearly not all dead. There is simply no way that every single last remaining Engineer was on this planet at the time of David's mass genocide. Especially not if they're a space-faring race. The whooooole point of Prometheus was to go back and explore "the big guy in the chair." Ridley wanted to see that concept realized for nearly 40 years. He's not going to suddenly drop that narrative for something else.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 17, 2017, 02:25:16 PM
Quote from: Beardomorph on Apr 17, 2017, 01:57:33 PM
Did you even read the article? The production designer states that the way they designed the Engineer sets is supposed to create more questions regarding the Engineers that could then be answered in future instalments.
'Could.' Ridley always likes a lot of questions and ambiguity, it doesn't mean he answers them. There's also no indication they're ever going back to the planet in Covenant.
QuoteThe question I have that will probably be explored in the next movie is why there has been no retaliation from the Engineers that were off Paradise when David's attack happened.
Because they're all dead.
Here all week, folks, tip your waiter.
What I was saying is that there is a lot left open for down the line. Whether or not Ridley will address some of these threads is something else entirely. But the potential for Engineers to show up in sequels is absolutely there.
The Engineers on Paradise when David arrives are all wiped out, that much we know. That much we can agree on because it is stated.
What is not stated is left up in the air and can be used down the line for future plot threads, that's called writing101.
We know that at least one Engineer survived the outbreak on LV-223 2000 years ago by going in stasis in a juggernaut. We also know there are many juggernauts on LV223, so that means potentially more Engineers in cryosleep. It's clearly implied as a possibility.
So what that tells us is that the possibility exists for some Engineers to be alive off Paradise.
If the human civilisation on Earth were to be destroyed during the time of the Covenant mission, humans would still exist on the Covenant. If humans can go on that way having just started travelling through space, it's ridiculous to think Engineers - a race that has mastered space travel for at least millenias - can't.
Do you have a reason to believe that a civilisation that has perfected space travel would not have at least a few members of their species off the planet at any given time?
Quote from: CoalescedChaos on Apr 17, 2017, 02:46:22 PM
I still don't believe they're Engineers, but for arguments sake, I suppose I'll agree. That being said, They're clearly not all dead. There is simply no way that every single last remaining Engineer was on this planet at the time of David's mass genocide.
What if they were? What then? Because I'm pretty sure that is exactly what this movie intends to say to close the book on both the Engineers and Shaw, and everything from the previous film except David. I'm pretty sure this movie's 'rocks fall, everyone dies' take on it is Scott's final word on the subject.
QuoteRidley wanted to see that concept realized for nearly 40 years. He's not going to suddenly drop that narrative for something else.
Ridley says a lot of things. Ridley drops a lot of things. Ridley also said in 2012 that the alien was 'done' and worn out, and he wanted to move on to new stories and new monsters. Ridley in 2017 is now saying the alien is back in force, giving everyone what they want for their money, and that they're going to do stories that lead directly back to the old ones.
Sometimes fans get so obsessed with old quotes or drawings or whatever and assume they must always be gospel. In reality creativity is very fluid, especially in Hollywood. Ridley Scott says a lot of things that strike him as exciting in the moment, he always has, and he does not necessarily fully commit to any one. Ridley Scott is also a very shrewd businessman. After
Prometheus' mixed reception and lacking any clear direction of where to go next he made the calculation that doing this movie and refocusing on the alien and direct prequels would be a winner with audiences, and I'm sure it will be. But it means he has dropped 90% of what he talked about before. And that's okay, that's his prerogative, but that's what's happened here.
Quote from: Beardomorph on Apr 17, 2017, 02:49:55 PM
Do you have a reason to believe that a civilisation that has perfected space travel would not have at least a few members of their species off the planet at any given time?
What was at least implied in
Prometheus is that any Engineers not on their homeworld had been killed by some great catastrophe likely resulting from their own weapons/experiments - wiped out. This is what is shown on LV-223 and it's what's at least implicitly implied happened with LV-426's Engineer/space jockey and its own deadly cargo on the derelict.
There is always the possibility one still exists out there, of course, in terms of fanfic or if someone else should take over the franchise and be dying for more of the big blue dudes. But for all intents and purposes Ridley Scott, who presently controls the franchise, is tying off the plot thread he is no longer interested in by saying 'yes, they went to the planet, David killed the rest, now the story is about David and the alien, have fun.' This is the reality the films are working in.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 17, 2017, 02:52:33 PM
What was at least implied in Prometheus is that any Engineers not on their homeworld had been killed by some great catastrophe likely resulting from their own weapons/experiments - wiped out. This is what is shown on LV-223 and it's what's at least implicitly implied happened with LV-426's Engineer/space jockey and its own deadly cargo on the derelict.
There is always the possibility one still exists out there, of course, in terms of fanfic or if someone else should take over the franchise and be dying for more of the big blue dudes. But for all intents and purposes Ridley Scott, who presently controls the franchise, is tying off the plot thread he is no longer interested in by saying 'yes, they went to the planet, David killed the rest, now the story is about David and the alien, have fun.' This is the reality the films are working in.
How do you explain the scorpion tail ship from the Empire article? Who was piloting it? Where did it go?
Quote from: CoalescedChaos on Apr 17, 2017, 03:02:49 PM
How do you explain the scorpion tail ship from the Empire article? Who was piloting it? Where did it go?
It's either an automated hangar/anchor/whatever, or it goes down with the rest of 'em. Do you seriously think David let it fly away and that that will be part of the scene?
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 17, 2017, 02:52:33 PM
Quote from: CoalescedChaos on Apr 17, 2017, 02:46:22 PM
I still don't believe they're Engineers, but for arguments sake, I suppose I'll agree. That being said, They're clearly not all dead. There is simply no way that every single last remaining Engineer was on this planet at the time of David's mass genocide.
What if they were? What then? Because I'm pretty sure that is exactly what this movie intends to say to close the book on both the Engineers and Shaw, and everything from the previous film except David.
You being "pretty sure" about what the movie intends to say without having seen it is a far cry from being able to state your opinion as a done deal.
As for "what if they were? what then?", well if they're all dead, they're all dead, that's fine with me. It just doesn't seem to me to be where this is going. I'm open-minded though, it's not up to me and if Ridley wants to get rid of the Engineers, he can do what he wants.
We can agree to disagree on that, but I just don't see the movie stating anything regarding Engineers off the planet. Unless there is a specific line in the movie stating that David has erased all Engineer life from the Universe, it will be a possibility that there are still members of the species out there. Frankly, I'd be surprised if they went out of their way to state that. For the sake of drama it makes more sense to have Engineers out there eventually crossing paths with the guy who destroyed their home world. It'd be silly to close the door on a potential antagonist for future films.
Quote from: Beardomorph on Apr 17, 2017, 03:06:30 PM
You being "pretty sure" about what the movie intends to say without having seen it is a far cry from being able to state your opinion as a done deal.
Fine, call it a very educated guess.
QuoteFrankly, I'd be surprised if they went out of their way to state that. For the sake of drama it makes more sense to have Engineers out there eventually crossing paths with the guy who destroyed their home world. It'd be silly to close the door on a potential antagonist for future films.
This is the thing, though: I'm pretty sure Ridley Scott doesn't care about that. The studio doesn't care. He's done with all that, they're done. He's going back to what he thinks works - the alien, and what he feels is a strong and relatable new antagonist in David. In their eyes they're scrapping inconvenient material they had to deal with. You're thinking in terms of some long view of the larger franchise decades down the road. Ridley Scott is thinking about this movie and his next one. The fan and critical consensus seems to generally be that the Engineers and
Prometheus did not fully land, so they're going back to the alien. That's it. They know people want aliens killing people, they know most of the larger audience does not give a shit about some idea of David fighting big blue dudes they don't know. And I'm saying this as someone who wishes they
weren't killing the whole Engineer thread off.
Tell you what: If this movie says or implies anything other than that David killed all the Engineers - if it mentions anything at all about any other surviving members of their civilization - I will owe you a virtual Coke. But if they leave it at that, I hope you'll consider that I'm just calling a cigar a cigar. It's a lazy ending, but I feel very confident that's what is happening.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mrm-meteorite.com%2Fwp-content%2Fthemes%2Fmrm%2Fimg%2Fdesktop%2Fcoke_-_share-virtual-coke.jpg%3F201409081244&hash=61880f79f93cde41cea45d790b9568e459dd07dd)
:D ;D
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 17, 2017, 03:03:48 PM
It's either an automated hangar/anchor/whatever, or it goes down with the rest of 'em. Do you seriously think David let it fly away and that that will be part of the scene?
So a floating hanger for the Juggernaut? When there's a hanger clearly built into the ground?
If it's a ship, how exactly would he stop such a ship from getting away? The Juggernaut doesn't seem to have a weapons system aside from the Accelerant bay.
Quote from: CoalescedChaos on Apr 17, 2017, 03:17:57 PM
If it's a ship, how exactly would he stop such a ship from getting away? The Juggernaut doesn't seem to have a weapons system aside from the Accelerant bay.
We have no idea what weapons the juggernaut has. You're not answering my question: Do you seriously think this scene will end with David letting that ship (if it is even a ship, regardless of your applying human logic to weird movie alien technology we know nothing about) get away?
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 17, 2017, 03:10:38 PM
Tell you what: If this movie says or implies anything other than that David killed all the Engineers - if it mentions anything at all about any other surviving members of their civilization - I will owe you a virtual Coke.
I'm cool with that! The bet's on.
Your view of what Ridley is doing with this movie and the next seems a tad reductive. You're basing this on selected quotes and what we know of some behind the scenes stuff, but you're also painting a picture that is solely based on these quotes, as if they were the full story.
A lot of the movie seems to be relying on the Engineers. The fact that they're dead on the planet the Covenant crew lands on was probably designed so that the movie wasn't overcrowded. By all accounts the movie is already "relentless" once shit starts to hit the fan, so adding live Engineers in the mix on top of xenomorphs, neomorphs, humans and robots probably was too much to juggle with. Doesn't stop the movie from developing ideas about their civilisation on their home world so IMO it doesn't feel like Ridley doesn't care for them. The studio required Aliens and he probably thought dead Engineers would be better for the sake of focus. Educated guess as well, although it stays just a guess ;)
We'll know soon enough.
Ridley is far from done with the engineers, he has stated that himself. Now on the other hand, these engineers in the photos look like this because of budget reasons i presume.. it would take a very very long time to get actors the same height and to make them identical to the engineer in prometheus.. the engineers in these pictures alone took 8 hours or more to get right.. and doing that to how many people would take a long time.. so doing it the right way to look like the engineers from prometheus would mean the budget would be sky high and we would still be waiting for it's release to date.. and all that money spent to kill them off in one scene? What a waste of budget.. and it would take away a lot more from the movie cause the budget would be hit hard, causing ridley to cut scenes and change ideas to fit the budget.. i hate to admit that these are engineers..
It's like us saying that humans are not really humans because they have different features like asians, white, black, packi etc.. i lkve engineers but also you have to look at the fact if it wasn't for david or prometheus then i am afraid we woukd be extinct in due course.. david is saving humanity by counter attacking them, as much as i want the engineers not gone, i want humanity more.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 17, 2017, 03:19:10 PM
We have no idea what weapons the juggernaut has. You're not answering my question: Do you seriously think this scene will end with David letting that ship (if it is even a ship, regardless of your applying human logic to weird movie alien technology we know nothing about) get away?
I do believe that, yes. If it has the same warp speed capabilities shown at the end of Prometheus, it should have no trouble getting way.
@SpeedyMaxx:
I was transcending the mere hypothesis of Engineer in the first place.
I'm sure "Engineers" doesn't exist literally in the Alien verse, Ridley's seems to have more obscur motive.
i.e. why I said they weren't engineers because I don't believe it's really a "specie" but more one of diverse humanoid category regrouped created by higher being.
Which is why we have humans, the one doode covered in giger genetic modification on LV-223, the greek god at the opening of Prometheus and now these things on Covenant. All humanoid, all likely derivated and seeding worlds but not specifically the origin of life itself nor the answer to the question of the black goo/Alien.
Still, all this sounds like a weak fan fiction that I barely find interesting. Why not? But beside that, which I don't care much, I'm more worried about the actual film itself and the logic that's behind. If only the editing could not suck like prometheus at least :D
---
But of course everything there with the film still being worked on is at the hypothesis level.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 17, 2017, 03:03:48 PM
Quote from: CoalescedChaos on Apr 17, 2017, 03:02:49 PM
How do you explain the scorpion tail ship from the Empire article? Who was piloting it? Where did it go?
It's either an automated hangar/anchor/whatever, or it goes down with the rest of 'em. Do you seriously think David let it fly away and that that will be part of the scene?
Sounds like some o' that fan speculation to me... Far more logical, based on everything we know pre-release, is that the Engineers constitute a sprawling, space-faring civilisation, and that their entire population is not contained in one primitive-looking planetary population. However it's obvious that Covenant could (and may well) write all of this out of the picture to raise the stakes and close potential plot holes - e.g. the Engineers of
Prometheus were the last preserve of an otherwise-extinct race.
Regarding the provenance of the pink-skins, I have laid out my pet theory (because this is a place to air those), and there are plenty of possibilities, but I find the LEAST likely of these is that they are
exactly the same strain of Engineers we saw on LV-223. Unless the contracted budget was so big, and the production so slapdash, that they needed to save on make-up for all those extras for that
one scene and just wholesale re-designed the white-skins.
In the original script "engineers" uplifted humanity multiple times.
It's probably their only way to "reproduce".
Makes us be more like them bit by bit.
Quote from: CoalescedChaos on Apr 17, 2017, 03:24:52 PM
I do believe that, yes. If it has the same warp speed capabilities shown at the end of Prometheus, it should have no trouble getting way.
If you seriously believe that Engineer genocide scene ends with one of their ships flying away (which would defeat the purpose of the actual scene dramatically) I dunno what to tell you. I guess we'll see.
Quote from: Molecules on Apr 17, 2017, 03:26:27 PM
Far more logical, based on everything we know pre-release, is that the Engineers constitute a sprawling, space-faring civilisation, and that their entire population is not contained in one primitive-looking planetary population.
But that was millennia ago. Shaw and David (and the director and crew) called it their homeworld and said it was where they all were now.
QuoteHowever it's obvious that Covenant could (and may well) write all of this out of the picture to raise the stakes and close potential plot holes - e.g. the Engineers of Prometheus were the last preserve of an otherwise-extinct race.
Bingo.
Quote from: Beardomorph on Apr 17, 2017, 03:20:39 PM
Your view of what Ridley is doing with this movie and the next seems a tad reductive.
That's because the plot of this movie vs. the last one is (IMO) reductive. It focuses in on David and the alien, refocusing the direction of the franchise back to direct prequels and scrapping the larger canvas. Believe me, it wasn't my idea.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 17, 2017, 03:30:39 PMShaw and David (and the director and crew) called it their homeworld and said it was where they all were now.
Was that actually stated? I missed it if that's the case, where did you get that from?
It's how I read the film and a lot of commentary by the crew at the time, I'll freely admit there's most likely nothing saying that 100%. But it certainly seems to be this film's angle.
Actually, looking at these Empire pics again in higher magnification, I am leaning toward SpeedyMaxx on this http://www.scified.com/u/rGKi7L4.jpg
Two things occur:
1) the 'pinkness' ain't down to poor white balance in the low-res photograph;
2) Perhaps the Engineer race are born with Caucasian human-like pigmentation, and they either go white as they age, or it is somehow a result of life-extension technology and genetic diddling. I say this because you see what looks very much like more conventional white-skins in the background. Just a goofy fan theory though, derp :P
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 17, 2017, 03:37:50 PM
It's how I read the film and a lot of commentary by the crew at the time, I'll freely admit there's most likely nothing saying that 100%. But it certainly seems to be this film's angle.
We're back to our bet then ;D
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 17, 2017, 03:30:39 PM
Quote from: Molecules on Apr 17, 2017, 03:26:27 PM
Far more logical, based on everything we know pre-release, is that the Engineers constitute a sprawling, space-faring civilisation, and that their entire population is not contained in one primitive-looking planetary population.
But that was millennia ago. Shaw and David (and the director and crew) called it their homeworld and said it was where they all were now.
And lo, they strayed too close to the Promethean fire, and the Gangly Elephant men did cast them from Heaven.
Oy. OK.
I honestly think it's near impossible to completely make a species extinct that is advanced in some form of intelligence. There will always be a couple of hundred if not thousands beyond the reach of extinction cause of where they live, where they are, they could be lightyears away, they could be housed in a very secure location, they could have emergency measures in place. But all these theories are just that, theories. What ridley decides ridley does. It is his idea that brought the alien to light in the first place. We are lucky to even have got a chance to see and witness these engineers.
Front page article needs a little tweaking.
Quote from: Elder-wolf on Apr 17, 2017, 04:55:35 PM
I honestly think it's near impossible to completely make a species extinct that is advanced in some form of intelligence. There will always be a couple of hundred if not thousands beyond the reach of extinction cause of where they live, where they are, they could be lightyears away, they could be housed in a very secure location, they could have emergency measures in place. But all these theories are just that, theories. What ridley decides ridley does. It is his idea that brought the alien to light in the first place. We are lucky to even have got a chance to see and witness these engineers.
This.
This is why I think that by the time of Aliens/Aliens, it's already too late for the Engineers themselves to wipe out humanity because we'd be spread across space and on other worlds.
They had their chance while humans were a planet bound Type-0 or Type-1 civilisation on the Kardashev scale.
But an interstellar Type-2 would be much more sturdy. Engineers are easily a Type-2.
The only ones wiped out are the ones on that planet but we will never know if they're truly extinct. Ridley doesn't have to explore them again if he doesn't want to, but as was said before, they can always come back in a comic or novel.
Prometheus shows us one Engineer on LV-223, but it turns out that in Fire and Stone as well as Life and Death, there were two more Engineers in stasis, and a third came from elsewhere on his own ship to LV-223 after being awakened due to a short scuffle between humans and Predators battling for his ship.
So I doubt this is the last we'll see of them in the franchise as a whole.
I right now I'm excited for ALIEN COVENANT. BUT the decision to put ALIEN 5 on hold or NOW cancelled and putting a de-aged Weaver in..well. Even though I'm excited for both. Final fan reporting: other members of the crew: Cain, Brent, Parker, Lambert, Ash and Captain Dallas are dead. Cargo ship destroyed. I should reach the frontier in about 6 weeks. With a little luck of The Network to pick me up. This is Rudy last fan of The ALIEN VS PREDATOR GALAXY signing off...
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Apr 17, 2017, 06:01:40 PM
Quote from: Elder-wolf on Apr 17, 2017, 04:55:35 PM
I honestly think it's near impossible to completely make a species extinct that is advanced in some form of intelligence. There will always be a couple of hundred if not thousands beyond the reach of extinction cause of where they live, where they are, they could be lightyears away, they could be housed in a very secure location, they could have emergency measures in place. But all these theories are just that, theories. What ridley decides ridley does. It is his idea that brought the alien to light in the first place. We are lucky to even have got a chance to see and witness these engineers.
This.
This is why I think that by the time of Aliens/Aliens, it's already too late for the Engineers themselves to wipe out humanity because we'd be spread across space and on other worlds.
They had their chance while humans were a planet bound Type-0 or Type-1 civilisation on the Kardashev scale.
But an interstellar Type-2 would be much more sturdy. Engineers are easily a Type-2.
The only ones wiped out are the ones on that planet but we will never know if they're truly extinct. Ridley doesn't have to explore them again if he doesn't want to, but as was said before, they can always come back in a comic or novel.
Prometheus shows us one Engineer on LV-223, but it turns out that in Fire and Stone as well as Life and Death, there were two more Engineers in stasis, and a third came from elsewhere on his own ship to LV-223 after being awakened due to a short scuffle between humans and Predators battling for his ship.
So I doubt this is the last we'll see of them in the franchise as a whole.
For all intents and purposes they are extinct by the time we get to ALIEN and the only engineers the Covenant encounters on their homeworld are deadgineers. If we're really lucky, we might see one more die in this prequel series.
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Apr 17, 2017, 06:01:40 PM
Quote from: Elder-wolf on Apr 17, 2017, 04:55:35 PM
I honestly think it's near impossible to completely make a species extinct that is advanced in some form of intelligence. There will always be a couple of hundred if not thousands beyond the reach of extinction cause of where they live, where they are, they could be lightyears away, they could be housed in a very secure location, they could have emergency measures in place. But all these theories are just that, theories. What ridley decides ridley does. It is his idea that brought the alien to light in the first place. We are lucky to even have got a chance to see and witness these engineers.
This.
This is why I think that by the time of Aliens/Aliens, it's already too late for the Engineers themselves to wipe out humanity because we'd be spread across space and on other worlds.
They had their chance while humans were a planet bound Type-0 or Type-1 civilisation on the Kardashev scale.
But an interstellar Type-2 would be much more sturdy. Engineers are easily a Type-2.
The only ones wiped out are the ones on that planet but we will never know if they're truly extinct. Ridley doesn't have to explore them again if he doesn't want to, but as was said before, they can always come back in a comic or novel.
Prometheus shows us one Engineer on LV-223, but it turns out that in Fire and Stone as well as Life and Death, there were two more Engineers in stasis, and a third came from elsewhere on his own ship to LV-223 after being awakened due to a short scuffle between humans and Predators battling for his ship.
So I doubt this is the last we'll see of them in the franchise as a whole.
I'm okay with it being too late for the Engineers/Spacejockeys if that's where Riddles wants to take this but how about the very important question that was raised in the Prometheus film though? What was the reason the Engineers/Spacejockeys created mankind and what Dr. Shaw was asking in the Prometheus film: "what did we do to make you hate us/want to destroy use?" So if Riddles wants to bring the original alien back and we have another film like Alien, I'm all for it, but we're still waiting for what seemed like such a profound question to be answered. The answer can't be well we Engineers/Spacejockeys were just having a bad day then, so let's forget all about it, etc. Let's get Riddles' answer to this question in one of his later Alien, hide, scare, jump, gore films. I think it still needs to be answered. I think there was even an interview with Riddles before the release of Prometheus where he mentioned the Alien/xenomorph--the very thing we may be seeing in the Covenant and subsequent films--was done to death and he was planning to move on from it. I'm okay with going back to Alien-esque films as long as he answers the question he started in the Prometheus film and doesn't do it in some blase way like the Engineers/Spacejockeys were just having a bad day so excuse the attempt to wipe you humans out and pretend it didn't happen.
The Engineers in Covenant are definitely meant to be Engineers and they will be extinct on the Paradise planet by the time the movie starts. That much is clear from what we know.
What is presumptuous is assuming we know whether or not there will be more Engineers (or at least remnants of their technology or civilization) in future Alien movies.
I personally don't see why there couldn't be. I certainly haven't seen any quotes from Ridley or John Logan saying that they're done with the Engineers after this movie.
Quote from: acidreign on Apr 17, 2017, 09:28:32 PM
The Engineers in Covenant are definitely meant to be Engineers and they will be extinct on the Paradise planet by the time the movie starts. That much is clear from what we know.
What is presumptuous is assuming we know whether or not there will be more Engineers (or at least remnants of their technology or civilization) in future Alien movies.
I personally don't see why there couldn't be. I certainly haven't seen any quotes from Ridley or John Logan saying that they're done with the Engineers after this movie.
Indeed, they're only wiped out on the planet that the Covenant crew finds them on.
I find it hard to believe that that an interstellar civilisation that seems to have mapped countless star systems is gonna get wiped out just like that.
By that logic, the Xenomorphs wiping out the colonists of Hadley's Hope wiped out humanity.
If Ridley's done with the Engineers and doesn't want to feature them again, then more power to him... but there's always gonna be one in stasis somewhere ready to awaken in a novel or a comic somewhere. :P
I don't mind R. Scott getting rid of the Engineers, as long as he keeps doing prequels ;D
Killing the Engineers now, doesn't mean that they are finished....
maybe , just maybe
the engineers civilization ( across all systems ) all suffered at the hands of their technology turning on them and rejected tech after the fact .
turning them into what we see .
although I believe paradise to just feature civilians .
ALSO maybe the sacrifice engineer was himself engineered for the purpose of seeding other worlds by who we are seeing on paradise .
I think the engineers wanted to wipe humanity out because of our destructive nature.. and the fact the dead engineer in prometheus was dead 2 thousand years it would give good indication that religion might have played a big part in it, the crucifixion of jesus, the romans, genghis khan, all that lead them to decide we were unfit for the life they gave us, also they might have been lead to believe we would eventually come looking for them and cause more destruction to them since we are a hostile race, to them anyway we seem to be. Since prometheus took place in 2093 i figure that 2 thousand year mark is a good reason why.. we were very war hungry and stoning people, taking over countries, we were not worthy of what they done for us.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FWmGePu8.jpg&hash=60b6bc328a516f15d0fa5335ed7b9270a76dcc66)
another image from the Empire article
It's good to have the xeno back!
I really did think the deacon was the last xenomorph I'd ever see in a Ridley Scott directed movie.
Quote from: Elder-wolf on Apr 18, 2017, 01:33:31 AM
I think the engineers wanted to wipe humanity out because of our destructive nature.. and the fact the dead engineer in prometheus was dead 2 thousand years it would give good indication that religion might have played a big part in it, the crucifixion of jesus, the romans, genghis khan, all that lead them to decide we were unfit for the life they gave us, also they might have been lead to believe we would eventually come looking for them and cause more destruction to them since we are a hostile race, to them anyway we seem to be. Since prometheus took place in 2093 i figure that 2 thousand year mark is a good reason why.. we were very war hungry and stoning people, taking over countries, we were not worthy of what they done for us.
Didn't Scott allude to the death of Jesus as a catalyst for the Engineers' vendetta against humanity or am I imagining that? Maybe we got too big for our britches? After all, the inhabitants of "Paradise" still seem to revere the Engineer overlords. The evidence of that is all around.
Quote from: Whos_Nick on Apr 18, 2017, 02:06:18 AM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FWmGePu8.jpg&hash=60b6bc328a516f15d0fa5335ed7b9270a76dcc66)
another image from the Empire article
our brand new human born alien...
Quote from: Whos_Nick on Apr 18, 2017, 02:06:18 AM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FWmGePu8.jpg&hash=60b6bc328a516f15d0fa5335ed7b9270a76dcc66)
another image from the Empire article
This CGI looks amazing! Much better than Xeno in the trailer. Cannot wait to see it on the big screen ;D
This xeno is amazing.
It's a skinny AR Alien with a better head.
There he is
It is! :P And it's just interesting that many of the people who disliked the fleshy look in the last few films are suddenly fine with it here.
Personally I'm just happy they fixed the head.
..and the hands... and the shoulders....
Overall, this one has better proportions.
They didn't fix the shoulders, they took them out! :P Same long fingers, just slimmer and better animated now they aren't rubber. This is the fleshiest design we've ever seen; I'm honestly just surprised all of the old, still-valid criticisms seem to have largely disappeared.
Quote from: rabidranger on Apr 18, 2017, 02:59:46 AM
Quote from: Elder-wolf on Apr 18, 2017, 01:33:31 AM
I think the engineers wanted to wipe humanity out because of our destructive nature.. and the fact the dead engineer in prometheus was dead 2 thousand years it would give good indication that religion might have played a big part in it, the crucifixion of jesus, the romans, genghis khan, all that lead them to decide we were unfit for the life they gave us, also they might have been lead to believe we would eventually come looking for them and cause more destruction to them since we are a hostile race, to them anyway we seem to be. Since prometheus took place in 2093 i figure that 2 thousand year mark is a good reason why.. we were very war hungry and stoning people, taking over countries, we were not worthy of what they done for us.
Didn't Scott allude to the death of Jesus as a catalyst for the Engineers' vendetta against humanity or am I imagining that? Maybe we got too big for our britches? After all, the inhabitants of "Paradise" still seem to revere the Engineer overlords. The evidence of that is all around.
They thought about linking it to JC but ultimately removed any reference.
They kept visiting in the Current Era anyway.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 18, 2017, 07:57:59 AM
They didn't fix the shoulders, they took them out!
They did a good job. ;D
But srsly, now... the lack of biomech details dont bother me a bit (at least as far as Covenant is concerned)
The producers and designers of Covenant mentioned in the set visits that the sequels will "build towards" the biomech aesthetic.
We'll see Big Chap again.. eventually. :P
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 17, 2017, 03:10:38 PM
This is the thing, though: I'm pretty sure Ridley Scott doesn't care about that. The studio doesn't care. He's done with all that, they're done. He's going back to what he thinks works - the alien, and what he feels is a strong and relatable new antagonist in David. In their eyes they're scrapping inconvenient material they had to deal with. You're thinking in terms of some long view of the larger franchise decades down the road. Ridley Scott is thinking about this movie and his next one. The fan and critical consensus seems to generally be that the Engineers and Prometheus did not fully land, so they're going back to the alien. That's it. They know people want aliens killing people, they know most of the larger audience does not give a shit about some idea of David fighting big blue dudes they don't know. And I'm saying this as someone who wishes they weren't killing the whole Engineer thread off.
Tell you what: If this movie says or implies anything other than that David killed all the Engineers - if it mentions anything at all about any other surviving members of their civilization - I will owe you a virtual Coke. But if they leave it at that, I hope you'll consider that I'm just calling a cigar a cigar. It's a lazy ending, but I feel very confident that's what is happening.
Even if you turn out to be incorrect, your point is well-stated. It is my sincerest wish and hope that more people and genre-fans in general assess upcoming movies in that way; by analyzing pragmatic choices by the studio and director based on what they think worked. It often turns out to basically be the case for how most movies turn out. Sadly, most people go and say stuff like "But, that can't logically be so because this and this. Hey this color is different! What does it meaaaan?", forgetting that most directors and audiences don't care.
This one looks much better than those slimy turds from Ressurection.
It looks like an organic Xenomorph, done right.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 18, 2017, 07:57:59 AM
They didn't fix the shoulders, they took them out! :P Same long fingers, just slimmer and better animated now they aren't rubber. This is the fleshiest design we've ever seen; I'm honestly just surprised all of the old, still-valid criticisms seem to have largely disappeared.
Maybe people like it looking fleshy because the fleshier, more organic look suits a more primitive xenomorph with what appear to be deliberately less biomechanoid elements.
The fleshy AR look suited mutant hybrids, people still trash on it.
(In case I didn't make it clear earlier I don't actually mind the design as I'm more interested in the head, and this head is pretty rad.)
I don't think it looks much like AR's aliens, and I never thought they looked that bad myself, just different. So both those and this work for me. It's the godawful CG from Alien 3 I still have a problem with.
It wasn't CG in Alien 3. It was a beautiful rod puppet that was ruined by the way they composited it into the footage. :'(
QuoteIt's the godawful CG from Alien 3 I still have a problem with.
Do you mean the badly composited puppet or the bambi burster in the extended cut?
EDIT
Sniped by Hicks.
That puppet
was amazing. Pity about the compositing :'(
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 18, 2017, 09:02:09 AM
It wasn't CG in Alien 3. It was a beautiful rod puppet that was ruined by the way they composited it into the footage. :'(
Ah, you're absolutely right, my mistake. I haven't seen the film in ages and my box set is still back in storage from my move to the West Coast. I just looked up a clip not long ago out of curiosity and was horrified by what looked like terrible CG in the big scene in the infirmary. It looked like Chromakey, or something akin to the 'paper cutout' of a monster victim in the new
Mystery Science Theater 3000 episode "Reptilicus".
Shame they did so much of A3 on the cheap. Inexcusable. Starting with the mash-up scripts.
It's not like it didn't have money. It just didn't have any left by the time they were starting properly...
I'm hopeful that one day we'll get another edition on Alien 3 on home release where they fix (if even possible. I don't know how much of the original footage of the puppet or the background is left) the compositing.
It just felt cheap and rushed to me, both when I saw it in the theater and every time since. And it wasn't just the FX, it was the story and most of the characters - I couldn't tell nearly anyone or anything apart for years. It felt like they'd expended so much effort in the idea of how to follow up one of the biggest action blockbusters in history, got nowhere due to bureaucracy and backbiting, and then finally threw a bunch of (IMO) inferior and bland scripts in a blender and rushed it out to meet a date. By the time they started shooting they'd burned out. And of course Fincher will probably never talk about it or be associated with the franchise again, which is tragic. Imagine if it had been a fraction of the film that his other '90s output was.
I'm not necessarily grieving about Hicks/Newt/Bishop after 30 years, I'm tired of that old wheeze and I'm not for Blomkamp's movie at all, but I do think it was a mistake and poisoned the well. If Sigourney really wanted a break you could always have taken a cue from Dark Horse and set the next film 10-15 years later, cast a young star as the adult Newt and bring Ripley out of seclusion. Or just say they all went their separate ways if it's going to be Ripley solo. Either way this is all wildly OT.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 18, 2017, 09:05:25 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 18, 2017, 09:02:09 AM
It wasn't CG in Alien 3. It was a beautiful rod puppet that was ruined by the way they composited it into the footage. :'(
Ah, you're absolutely right, my mistake. I haven't seen the film in ages and my box set is still back in storage from my move to the West Coast. I just looked up a clip not long ago out of curiosity and was horrified by what looked like terrible CG in the big scene in the infirmary. It looked like Chromakey, or something akin to the 'paper cutout' of a monster victim in the new Mystery Science Theater 3000 episode "Reptilicus".
Shame they did so much of A3 on the cheap. Inexcusable. Starting with the mash-up scripts.
Please, if You have to possibility, go over the ALIEN3 bonus disc and making of. No critique, just a reminder, that Boss studio did a marvelous job back then (as Hicks mentioned) and 1992 CGI was practically in the baby shoes. Jurassic filled that the first time, and let´s remember there where many practical Dinos.
But why I hint towards the bonus disc of ALIEN3, they explained there, that they simply had not the right camera work. The rod puppet was shot in second unit with a third scale. All was of course analog back then, so there was a huge calculation work to be done to get the rod puppet shots in third scale to match the life footage. A horror scenario, especially with the studio pressure and date line ahead.
I still think the puppet is gorgeous and might have even more life to it as a full CG character. The reason It looks so odd in most scenes is the un-matching lightning, the analog rotoscoping of the blue screen and rod background (and the controlling vfx guys) and simply the fact, that the suit ALIEN played by Woodruff was covered in slime and had a total different texture feel to it as the puppet, which simply was not allowed to be too shinny, cos of the above stated rotoscoping horror show.
The vfx guys did a marvelous job back then, with all facts considered. Let´s not forget, that these days with all our digital marvels, still some films vfx manages to look goofy. Mostly nowadays, because animations are either over done or super un-natural in their movement. The shading of CG should not be a problem anymore.
I thought the camera work was alright, it was just the compositing. Too much spill from the blue screen, lighting was just off enough for it not to look quite right. The performance was good (except the shot where David is trying the shut the faulty door, where it looks dopey as).
Quote from: SM on Apr 18, 2017, 10:04:50 AM
I thought the camera work was alright, it was just the compositing. Too much spill from the blue screen, lighting was just off enough for it not to look quite right. The performance was good (except the shot where David is trying the shut the faulty door, where it looks dopey as).
What are you talking about??
David, the inmate of Fioria in ALIEN3.
When the runner comes after him and he quickly shots the door, the parallax of the shot is ass-off. Does not match a bit. They should have used man in suit here and do a different shot composition.
Quote from: locusta on Apr 18, 2017, 10:44:40 AM
David, the inmate of Fioria in ALIEN3.
When the runner comes after him and he quickly shots the door, the parallax of the shot is ass-off. Does not match a bit. They should have used man in suit here and do a different shot composition.
Oh I thought he was talking Covenant. Sorry. :)
Something i have always wrecked my head with is, why do they always drop the amazing scripts and first or second initial drafts of alien films? I mean alien 3 the original draft was fantastic.. scary as hell and introduced some amazing new aliens, the beluga alien if i am not mistaking? And it was far darker are more gruesome that the actual decided draft.. alien 3 was the weakest for me.. and nkw the same with prometheus, they dropped the first draft and second, now i am wondering what kind of drafts we could have got in covenent, is this one the weakest one we are about to see? Or the strongest. Just never understood why they dropped the best drafts.
Was just perusing over these two stills and I originally thought this location was one and the same.
But I don't think it is as there's no dome in the Empire pic.
Don't Holloway me if it's already been covered!
On second thoughts - maybe the dome is retractable?
Quote from: locusta on Apr 17, 2017, 11:22:27 AM
Anybody else thinks the burster is semi transparent? Look the upheld arm.
I noticed that as well. Interesting.
Quote from: Hard-R on Apr 18, 2017, 01:56:06 PM
Was just perusing over these two stills and I originally thought this location was one and the same.
But I don't think it is as there's no dome in the Empire pic.
Don't Holloway me if it's already been covered!
On second thoughts - maybe the dome is retractable?
The dome is there in the empire pic, it just seems further away because of the perspective. But it's there.
Hi all. I thought the head room was down that opening in the plaza for some reason.
Quote from: NattyDread on Apr 18, 2017, 02:42:47 PM
Hi all. I thought the head room was down that opening in the plaza for some reason.
Yes so did I.
I also think the scorpion tale needs more deliberation.
Quote from: Hard-R on Apr 18, 2017, 01:56:06 PM
Was just perusing over these two stills and I originally thought this location was one and the same.
But I don't think it is as there's no dome in the Empire pic.
Don't Holloway me if it's already been covered!
On second thoughts - maybe the dome is retractable?
different angle.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 18, 2017, 07:57:59 AM
This is the fleshiest design we've ever seen; I'm honestly just surprised all of the old, still-valid criticisms seem to have largely disappeared.
They're similar for sure, though I see significant differences in the textures. The Resurrection aliens were more purely fleshy looking, at least in how the ended up reading on camera. This design, while similarly lacking in the amount of actual biomechanical detail, has a more fibrous, tendon-y appearance to its surface. That Empire image also nicely highlights the stone-like color tone they seem to have, as well. Combined with the other differences, I like it more. And yes, the head is bangin'.
Quote from: cliffhanger on Apr 18, 2017, 04:07:14 PM
Quote from: Hard-R on Apr 18, 2017, 01:56:06 PM
Was just perusing over these two stills and I originally thought this location was one and the same.
But I don't think it is as there's no dome in the Empire pic.
Don't Holloway me if it's already been covered!
On second thoughts - maybe the dome is retractable?
different angle.
Yes you are right.
Just pinched this from McBride TV spot and confirms dome is there on other side.
The scorpion tail thing is just another Juggernaut type ship flying vertically IMO... This ship just has the control dome very close to the end of an arm...
Quote from: ReluctantNerd on Apr 18, 2017, 07:19:01 PM
The scorpion tail thing is just another Juggernaut type ship flying vertically IMO... This ship just has the control dome very close to the end of an arm...
Good call
But who's piloting that?
yep, and it looks exeggerated huge because it's closer to the camera
yep, it looks big because of that.
Spoiler
We've heard some stories of the Juggernaut "linking" with another ship (or ships). My guess is that because the Giger design had a fork type end and a hammer type end (which makes it weird and alien to our idea of a craft, because asymmetrical) the explain-it brigade in charge came up with the idea that it must link up with something. And so now it does. But we'll see.
Quote from: Elder-wolf on Apr 18, 2017, 01:27:31 PM
Something i have always wrecked my head with is, why do they always drop the amazing scripts and first or second initial drafts of alien films? I mean alien 3 the original draft was fantastic.. scary as hell and introduced some amazing new aliens, the beluga alien if i am not mistaking? And it was far darker are more gruesome that the actual decided draft.. alien 3 was the weakest for me.. and nkw the same with prometheus, they dropped the first draft and second, now i am wondering what kind of drafts we could have got in covenent, is this one the weakest one we are about to see? Or the strongest. Just never understood why they dropped the best drafts.
Which Alien 3 draft? Anchorpoint v1, Anchorpoint v2, Twohy's prison, Eric Red's mid-west space station, Ward & Fasano's monks, or Giler, Hill, Ferguson and Pickett's rapists and murderers?
They general don't use those initial drafts because they need a lot more work before going in front of a camera. Alien was miles better than any of O'Bannon's Star Beast drafts.
Almost every Alien 3 draft other than Gibson's was f**ked AFAIC - and Gibson's 1st is just so-so in hindsight, a bug hunt. Ward's was visually striking and innovative but I didn't care for the story. Red's was bizarre and I seem to recall finding it interesting but weird and stupid in places - I haven't read it in years and I know he disowned it. Gibson's first I dug as an Aliens-loving kid, and today I find it fun and interesting but a bit conventional - I haven't read the second but I will be doing so soon, I hear it's good. Anyway, it's still more than I can say about the others I've read. I am curious about Twohy's, which I also have sitting on my HD to read.
The final film was a rushed, subpar pastiche of other malformed ideas IMO. They never took enough time to nail a real story that fully worked, all they cared about was making a date so they just played it cheap and rushed ahead with 'prison planet using existing construction'. For a movie of this caliber that's inexcusable.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 18, 2017, 08:33:07 PM
Almost every Alien 3 draft other than Gibson's was f**ked AFAIC - and Gibson's 1st is just so-so in hindsight, a bug hunt. Ward's was visually striking and innovative but I didn't care for the story. Red's was bizarre and I seem to recall finding it interesting but weird and stupid in places - I haven't read it in years and I know he disowned it. Gibson's first I dug as an Aliens-loving kid, and today I find it fun and interesting but a bit generic - I haven't read the second but I will be doing so soon, I hear it's good. Anyway, it's still more than I can say about the others I've read. I am curious about Twohy's, which I also have sitting on my HD to read.
The final film was a rushed, subpar pastiche of other malformed ideas IMO. They never took enough time to nail a real story that fully worked, all they cared about was making a date so they just played it cheap and rushed ahead with 'prison planet using existing construction'. For a movie of this caliber that's inexcusable.
Never forget that Eric Red's draft had a spaceship turn into a giant Xenomorph.
Honestly? That'd at least be different, even if Eric Red is kind of nuts. I'll have to read it again.
IMO, if they went forward with that draft, it would be worse (and more stupid) than cloning Ripley in Resurrection.
@SM
It was the david twohy script i was most interested in.. the type of aliens that were in it.. gibsons one was not bad but it seemed twohy had more of a feel.. the beluga, i mean how do you escape that or the alien that can use it's acid to go through doors and walls at will. Just seemed like it would have been more freaky and also the fact there woukd be xenomorphs fighting one another. Although gibson did use the airborne idea of infection which seems to be taking up by ridley as of late.
To me the weirder and freakier the ideas in the franchise the better. (I even mostly like Resurrection despite its schizoid tone, Newborn and alien love scene included, so discount me at your will.) Which is why I am a bit lukewarm on Covenant's story, though it looks fantastic stylistically and I expect to have a good time - just seems like it ultimately comes down to another alien bug hunt. So even Eric Red's possibly substance-induced ideas of a living alien spaceship (I'll have to re-read, I don't remember that) are kind of fun in theory.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 18, 2017, 09:47:05 PM
To me the weirder and freakier the ideas in the franchise the better. (I even mostly like Resurrection despite its schizoid tone, Newborn and alien love scene included, so discount me at your will.) Which is why I am a bit lukewarm on Covenant's story, though it looks fantastic stylistically and I expect to have a good time - just seems like it ultimately comes down to another alien bug hunt. So even Eric Red's possibly substance-induced ideas of a living alien spaceship (I'll have to re-read, I don't remember that) are kind of fun in theory.
I think there's going to be a good deal of weird ideas in
Covenant, even though the story does feel very grounded.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 18, 2017, 09:47:05 PM
To me the weirder and freakier the ideas in the franchise the better. (I even mostly like Resurrection despite its schizoid tone, Newborn and alien love scene included, so discount me at your will.) Which is why I am a bit lukewarm on Covenant's story, though it looks fantastic stylistically and I expect to have a good time - just seems like it ultimately comes down to another alien bug hunt. So even Eric Red's possibly substance-induced ideas of a living alien spaceship (I'll have to re-read, I don't remember that) is kind of fun.
I respect your opinion. I just think that one of the appealing things about the series is how it manages to feel like it could happen in real life. Yeah, an Alien bursting out of your chest may be fictional, but we also live in a world with Cordyceps fungi, which basically turns ants into zombies. IDK, I'm just not a fan when the series goes off the walls.
Again, that's just what I think. And I'm fine with anyone liking Resurrection. That's your opinion after all.
Quote from: Elder-wolf on Apr 18, 2017, 09:38:40 PM
@SM
It was the david twohy script i was most interested in.. the type of aliens that were in it.. gibsons one was not bad but it seemed twohy had more of a feel.. the beluga, i mean how do you escape that or the alien that can use it's acid to go through doors and walls at will. Just seemed like it would have been more freaky and also the fact there woukd be xenomorphs fighting one another. Although gibson did use the airborne idea of infection which seems to be taking up by ridley as of late.
I don't remember a 'beluga' but yeah the Alien that dislocated it's body so it could squeeze through narrow gaps could've been cool.
The rest of the script was terribly inspiring from memory though (and to be fair it was only a first draft and needed a lot of work). The ending with the Alien being impaled on an antenna or something on the front of a ship was pretty lack lustre.
Quote from: SM on Apr 18, 2017, 09:59:58 PM
Quote from: Elder-wolf on Apr 18, 2017, 09:38:40 PM
@SM
It was the david twohy script i was most interested in.. the type of aliens that were in it.. gibsons one was not bad but it seemed twohy had more of a feel.. the beluga, i mean how do you escape that or the alien that can use it's acid to go through doors and walls at will. Just seemed like it would have been more freaky and also the fact there woukd be xenomorphs fighting one another. Although gibson did use the airborne idea of infection which seems to be taking up by ridley as of late.
I don't remember a 'beluga' but yeah the Alien that dislocated it's body so it could squeeze through narrow gaps could've been cool.
The rest of the script was terribly inspiring from memory though (and to be fair it was only a first draft and needed a lot of work). The ending with the Alien being impaled on an antenna or something on the front of a ship was pretty lack lustre.
They were actually going to use that idea for
Requiem when one of the Alien's squeezes itself through Wolf's security field.
Quote from: SM on Apr 18, 2017, 09:59:58 PM
Quote from: Elder-wolf on Apr 18, 2017, 09:38:40 PM
@SM
It was the david twohy script i was most interested in.. the type of aliens that were in it.. gibsons one was not bad but it seemed twohy had more of a feel.. the beluga, i mean how do you escape that or the alien that can use it's acid to go through doors and walls at will. Just seemed like it would have been more freaky and also the fact there woukd be xenomorphs fighting one another. Although gibson did use the airborne idea of infection which seems to be taking up by ridley as of late.
I don't remember a 'beluga' but yeah the Alien that dislocated it's body so it could squeeze through narrow gaps could've been cool.
The rest of the script was terribly inspiring from memory though (and to be fair it was only a first draft and needed a lot of work). The ending with the Alien being impaled on an antenna or something on the front of a ship was pretty lack lustre.
I think he's referring to the Beluga-Xenomorph from the Engineers draft of Prometheus. But I haven't read the Twohy draft, so maybe there was something like that in that script as well.
looking very closely at the engineer city pik , the hole at the center is actually opening .
you can see the edges of the outward spiraling blades that are similar to both the lv223 juggernaut hanger doors AND the pilot chair seal 😎
sorry if this has been mentioned .
I don't think the Spaihts draft is a cure for all ills like some people do, but the white oozing alien with the skull/Holloway-face beneath its translucent shell was cool as f**k. Someone needs to use that idea.
Quote from: echobbase79 on Apr 18, 2017, 09:57:14 PM
I think there's going to be a good deal of weird ideas in Covenant, even though the story does feel very grounded.
Oh, I love what I'm hearing and seeing about the new monsters (though the full grown neomorph seen in a recent TV spot has me thinking it's from an old PS2 horror game so far). I just think the overall plot and re-focus on the original alien is a disappointment. Despite that the film itself looks gorgeous, stylish and will likely be a fun ride.
Looks miles better than Prometheus
Quote from: SiLPersonally I'm just happy they fixed the head.
Yeah, it's a fairly faithful head! Good to see. That body though.. ugh. Looks like something from The Mummy 1999.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 18, 2017, 10:24:55 PM
Oh, I love what I'm hearing and seeing about the new monsters (though the full grown neomorph seen in a recent TV spot has me thinking it's from an old PS2 horror game so far). I just think the overall plot and re-focus on the original alien is a disappointment. Despite that the film itself looks gorgeous, stylish and will likely be a fun ride.
I entirely agree that it's a disappointment we are regressing back into Alien but you are being entirely dishonest if you are saying those are PS2 level graphics. Show me a single image anywhere that holds up to that on the PS2.
@anthony
No the beluga was the david twohy idea for the alien 3 script.. technically called rogue xenomorph but for the prometheus script they renamed it beluga but it would have had the exact same traits.
@SM
It was called the rogue alien but it was exactly the same as beluga alien. I just call it beluga because people would understand it quicker cause it is more fresh to them as the idea was more recent.
It is a pity that we have not seen many variations of these xenomorphs because apart from what we know, the other variations seemed a hell of a lot more freaky and hard to hide from. Especially the brute alien that charges at you like a rhino. You would just freeze in shock.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 18, 2017, 10:24:55 PM
I don't think the Spaihts draft is a cure for all ills like some people do, but the white oozing alien with the skull/Holloway-face beneath its translucent shell was cool as f**k. Someone needs to use that idea.
Quote from: echobbase79 on Apr 18, 2017, 09:57:14 PM
I think there's going to be a good deal of weird ideas in Covenant, even though the story does feel very grounded.
Oh, I love what I'm hearing and seeing about the new monsters (though the full grown neomorph seen in a recent TV spot has me thinking it's from an old PS2 horror game so far). I just think the overall plot and re-focus on the original alien is a disappointment. Despite that the film itself looks gorgeous, stylish and will likely be a fun ride.
Yeah, I wasn't impressed by that at all. But then I saw the full body shot of it from the new Empire article. That looked incredible.
Also apart from neomoroh and xenomorph, anybody got an idea on if that is all we expect to see from the aliens, or do you think there will be a surprise alien in store for us?
Quote from: Elder-wolf on Apr 19, 2017, 12:37:40 AM
@anthony
No the beluga was the david twohy idea for the alien 3 script.. technically called rogue xenomorph but for the prometheus script they renamed it beluga but it would have had the exact same traits.
Ah okay, didn't know since I haven't read the Twohy script. Thanks for clarifying.
@anthony it's the alien ideas he had that we're cool. Just type his name and the scriot will come up.
Quote from: Elder-wolf on Apr 19, 2017, 12:39:35 AM
Also apart from neomoroh and xenomorph, anybody got an idea on if that is all we expect to see from the aliens, or do you think there will be a surprise alien in store for us?
I don't think so. I think we've seen all the creatures we're going to get.
Quote from: Robopadna on Apr 19, 2017, 12:21:01 AM
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 18, 2017, 10:24:55 PM
Oh, I love what I'm hearing and seeing about the new monsters (though the full grown neomorph seen in a recent TV spot has me thinking it's from an old PS2 horror game so far). I just think the overall plot and re-focus on the original alien is a disappointment. Despite that the film itself looks gorgeous, stylish and will likely be a fun ride.
I entirely agree that it's a disappointment we are regressing back into Alien but you are being entirely dishonest if you are saying those are PS2 level graphics. Show me a single image anywhere that holds up to that on the PS2.
In the shot with Rosenthal getting attacked indoors in the recent spot, it looks remarkably like a monster from any number of J-horror games from that era, as well as a number of cheesy horror movies emulating that look in the last 17 years. That's all I'm saying. I love the smaller neomorph's look and I hope the full grown comes off better in full frame.
The Neomorphs are making me think of the Grey Child from Silent Hill for some reason.
In fact, the Grey Child does have hands similar to the Xenomorph and a head like the Predator.
http://silenthill.wikia.com/wiki/Grey_Child
The grey child was in fact changed before the games release because it resembled more so a real child and to kill with the iron pipe proved very voilent.. interesting the things they changed.. off topic that so back on topic.
I went through all pics of alien convenant and the burned corpses i seen where in facted very big and muscular, indicating they actually are true engineers. Also the pic with the engineers close to the temple, the first image released, shows the genitalias to.. it is all very specific.. if you examine it rigt younwill see this.. small to for engineers lol.. but yeah definitely engineers.
(https://instagram.com/p/BTD6k1Lhacn/)
Regular cover revealed.
Awesome! Will pick up the digital copy as soon as it's available!
Just watched alien again.. it is crazy how big the space jockey actually is.. his arm is the length of one person alone.. i mean the engineer in prometheus would be at least 3-4 feet smaller than the space jockey. So why did ridley adjust the size for prometheus? Would it be to do with the fact ridley does not like to use C.G.I or would it just look too much? I mean the deacon must in fact be huge based on the size of the space jockey.
That´s why I still hope, the Space Jockey is a different being, then the Engineers.
Quote from: locusta on Apr 19, 2017, 04:03:23 PM
That´s why I still hope, the Space Jockey is a different being, then the Engineers.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reactiongifs.us%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F02%2Ffacepalm.gif&hash=c9ed5292e11fc35a567b3ada3e6f0228a8a636af)
Quote from: locusta on Apr 19, 2017, 04:03:23 PM
That´s why I still hope, the Space Jockey is a different being, then the Engineers.
Time to give up the dream, man.
give up the jockey dream :(
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
Save the jockey! Save the dream!
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.starwarsreport.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F10%2F1-106.png&hash=dba2864a6d9d99a5330089b70cd5b9d88747d7ba)
Quote from: MajorB on Apr 19, 2017, 10:28:13 PM
Save the jockey! Save the dream!
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.starwarsreport.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F10%2F1-106.png&hash=dba2864a6d9d99a5330089b70cd5b9d88747d7ba)
LIES! DECEPTION!
QuoteSo why did ridley adjust the size for prometheus?
He adjusted it in Alien too - depending on the camera angle.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 19, 2017, 04:05:20 PM
Quote from: locusta on Apr 19, 2017, 04:03:23 PM
That´s why I still hope, the Space Jockey is a different being, then the Engineers.
http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/facepalm.gif
Didnt ridly scot say that the Engineers didnt create humans?
Well, we still need to venture back to LV-426 and LV-223, don't we? They both orbit Calpamos. These prequels all really come down to that.
There needs to be an explanation as to how those eggs got there under the Derelict in Alien. And if we do get an explanation, that means we have, at the very least, one last Space Jockey/Engineer to see on screen. They aren't all dead after Covenant. Especially if the Alien is simply a product of an android playing Frankenstein for 10 years.
Otherwise, if those eggs and the Derelict truly are a millenia old, then that would disprove David as the creator and instead make him the recreator and it changes the Accelerant into a template/blueprint byproduct of the Alien.
Quote from: bobcunk on Apr 19, 2017, 11:08:55 PM
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 19, 2017, 04:05:20 PM
Quote from: locusta on Apr 19, 2017, 04:03:23 PM
That´s why I still hope, the Space Jockey is a different being, then the Engineers.
http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/facepalm.gif
Didnt ridly scot say that the Engineers didnt create humans?
No, he said they didn't create the Alien. But clearly the Alien has been around for thousands of years. Which is why I believe whoever created the Engineers also created the Alien to destroy the Engineers.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.scified.com%2Fu%2FIMG_20170323_0950491.jpg&hash=60d08196698f5460252e54bc5809e785a2a0deca)
The Engineers, in turn, were able to weaponize the Alien and created the much more controllable, but equally dangerous Accelerant and destoyed their own Gods.
If the poster is an actual relief sculpture the crew finds in the Engineer city, that's clear indication the Alien is ancient. It's part of their history.
"AI cannot be authentically creative." - RS
Quote from: locusta on Apr 19, 2017, 04:03:23 PM
That´s why I still hope, the Space Jockey is a different being, then the Engineers.
I'm with you on that
QuoteThere needs to be an explanation as to how those eggs got there under the Derelict in Alien.
There doesn't need to be an explanation. It'd be interesting to see what they might come up with - but as things stand, if it's left unexplained, it's not really an issue.
i thought the size difference between the original alien jockey/engineer was due to dribbly snot thinking 13 foot engineers would be hard to frame in camera with us mire mortals(6'foot) could be wrong.
I think it was more to do with concerns about convincingly relating to elephant trunk ETs.
Quote from: SM on Apr 20, 2017, 12:56:12 AM
QuoteThere needs to be an explanation as to how those eggs got there under the Derelict in Alien.
There doesn't need to be an explanation. It'd be interesting to see what they might come up with - but as things stand, if it's left unexplained, it's not really an issue.
I agree, it totally doesn't need an explanation if the Alien is ancient and David isn't actually the creator. But if he is the reason for the classic Alien we know, then it'll need to be explained how the eggs got on LV-426 because David would have direct involvement in that happening, no?
Like I said, I don't think David is the creator. And if the Alien is ancient, I'm fine with never knowing how the Eggs and the Derelict got there because it can easily be assumed what happened.
Like it, love it or hate it, there is no question that the Engineers are intended to be the same species as the space jockey.
The scale difference between the jockey/Engineer in Alien and the suited Engineer in Prometheus is likely just due to Ridley & co. preferring to shoot live with an actor rather than go through the trouble with FX work to exactly match the scale of the original (which was played fast and loose to begin with).
As for future movies and how they deal or don't with the Derelict, who knows? It depends on how definitively David is being positioned as the creator of the xenomorph as we know it.
It's also very possible that they'll sidestep the issue of the Derelict in some way. We'll just have to see.
QuoteBut if he is the reason for the classic Alien we know, then it'll need to be explained how the eggs got on LV-426 because David would have direct involvement in that happening, no?
Depends on how things are left at the conclusion of Covenant. If he did create them and there's some implication that Engineers are extinct (hypothetically), yes, that would create continuity questions that would need addressing.
My strong suspicion is that Ridley now intends to deal directly with both the alien's creation and LV-426/the derelict in AC and future movies, and that he'll use the same pat explanation for both: "David Did It." I think that's tacky and silly and far too overt, the idea of some evil android creating a monster and seeding the ship a handful of years before Alien. I think it's a bad mistake.
IMO all the explanation we ever needed for the alien or the derelict was in the original film and Prometheus. Ridley spent decades gabbing in print, commentary, interviews etc. saying flat-out that the alien was a bioweapon bred by the Engineers/jockeys that got out of control and contributed to wiping them out, much like it did the space jockey on LV-426. Prometheus backs all of this up onscreen by presenting another incident of widespread disaster that contributed to the same wipeout of the Engineer species; more bioweapons that were uncontrollable and helped kill them off. Everything Janek, etc. says in the film contributes to that same thesis Ridley has been pushing since the '70s. It was easy enough to connect the dot between what is uncovered in Prometheus back to events in Alien.
But when Prometheus got a mixed reception and Ridley was out of ideas for the sequel, he moved to directly prequelizing the original film and changing it up - now we have this new latter-day twist with David, and it sounds a lot like he is going to say that David made it all happen, not the Engineers/space jockeys. I think they're fixing what wasn't broken, and breaking it. I just hope they leave room to say David merely copied the creature the Engineers already created. It's all so unnecessary, but for hardcore nerds who love fan service it'll be a squeefest.
If there are to be two more films after Covenant, there still needs to be at least two huge plot points in this overarching story. Prometheus introduced the Accelerant and the Engineers, Covenant will cover the creation of the Alien whether it be through David experimenting on Shaw or them being this ancient this that perhaps doesn't need explaining. So, we're at what exactly is there to be said next? I have hope we'll see whatever it was that created the Engineers yet. "And who created them?" I don't feel it's all that far fetched to think we'll be seeing that at some point.
Ridley already says that the Engineers didn't create the Alien. The Engineers seem to have the Accelerant - they wouldn't have any need for the Alien. So that leaves us with either David or something else. Enter the Elder Gods (I think).
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 20, 2017, 02:43:44 AM
But when Prometheus got a mixed reception and Ridley was out of ideas for the sequel, he moved to directly prequelizing the original film and changing it up - now we have this new latter-day twist with David, and it sounds a lot like he is going to say that David made it all happen, not the Engineers/space jockeys. I think they're fixing what wasn't broken, and breaking it.
If this is actually the case (I'm not 100% sure it is but it's certainly plausible) it paints them into an extremely tight corner in terms of prequelizing the original Alien. David will have to get ahold of an engineer ship after leaving Paradise at the end of Covenant and load it full of his eggs somehow. So consequently the Engineers will have to come back into play on some level.
I'd venture that it's also entirely possible they have more up their sleeve. Doesn't the article claim that Logan has a 10-page treatment already?
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 20, 2017, 02:43:44 AM
But when Prometheus got a mixed reception and Ridley was out of ideas for the sequel, he moved to directly prequelizing the original film and changing it up....
Or Scott has it all planned out and when we get to the final prequel all our questions will be answered.
Quote from: bunnyavpg on Apr 20, 2017, 05:09:34 AM
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 20, 2017, 02:43:44 AM
But when Prometheus got a mixed reception and Ridley was out of ideas for the sequel, he moved to directly prequelizing the original film and changing it up....
Or Scott has it all planned out and when we get to the final prequel all our questions will be answered.
The "Alien Bible" seems to be a solid indication of where they're going with the films. As well as Logan having a ten page treatment.
I also believe they have more up their sleeve.
Its way to presumptuous and simplistic to think that David will be responsible for absolutely everything. Obviously he has and will have an influence on the proceedings but I expect the story to develop further in future films and I certainly don't see David being solely responsible for the Derelict.
https://twitter.com/BeatFassbender/status/854991854739345409
These'll do until I can get signal on my phone.
http://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/empire-issue-preview-alien-covenant-pirates-5-spider-man-homecoming/
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C92S1_UXgAEWmod.jpg:large)
Quote from: CoalescedChaos on Apr 19, 2017, 11:17:20 PM
There needs to be an explanation as to how those eggs got there under the Derelict in Alien.
mmmh, I've heard the Covenants cargoo makes for 2.000 frozen folks lol. That should make David very happy. A new playground to continue playing God.
Don't misundestand me I've always hated egg morphing with a passion, but I hate the queen a thousand times more
impossible that david is creator of aliens. don't forget that derelict on LV-426 was crash a least 1000 years and river of pain novel (canon) reveal that ship get crash because Engineers and Xenomorphs has fighting on the ship.
The filmmakers do not care about or acknowledge the books.
Hell, Scott doesn't even care about the other movies beyond Alien.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 20, 2017, 02:43:44 AM
My strong suspicion is that Ridley now intends to deal directly with both the alien's creation and LV-426/the derelict in AC and future movies, and that he'll use the same pat explanation for both: "David Did It." I think that's tacky and silly and far too overt, the idea of some evil android creating a monster and seeding the ship a handful of years before Alien. I think it's a bad mistake.
IMO all the explanation we ever needed for the alien or the derelict was in the original film and Prometheus. Ridley spent decades gabbing in print, commentary, interviews etc. saying flat-out that the alien was a bioweapon bred by the Engineers/jockeys that got out of control and contributed to wiping them out, much like it did the space jockey on LV-426. Prometheus backs all of this up onscreen by presenting another incident of widespread disaster that contributed to the same wipeout of the Engineer species; more bioweapons that were uncontrollable and helped kill them off. Everything Janek, etc. says in the film contributes to that same thesis Ridley has been pushing since the '70s. It was easy enough to connect the dot between what is uncovered in Prometheus back to events in Alien.
But when Prometheus got a mixed reception and Ridley was out of ideas for the sequel, he moved to directly prequelizing the original film and changing it up - now we have this new latter-day twist with David, and it sounds a lot like he is going to say that David made it all happen, not the Engineers/space jockeys. I think they're fixing what wasn't broken, and breaking it. I just hope they leave room to say David merely copied the creature the Engineers already created. It's all so unnecessary, but for hardcore nerds who love fan service it'll be a squeefest.
I agree..
At this point there are three things that would make me very happy in order of importance to me.
1) Make it obvious that the Xeno/Neo/Deacon type creatures are ancient and were known to the Engineers. David is simply attempting to re-create some ancient soufflé. Even better yet if it was an ancient creation designed to kill the Engineers.
2) Give some answer to the motives of the Engineers. It doesn't need to be Earth centric, but it would be interesting to know their motives behind seeding life and doing planetary scale "resets". What are they trying to accomplish? Are they trying to save their civilization by creating themselves? In a way it makes sense that the sacrificial Engineer would be the most perfect example of an Engineer.
3) Where did the goo come from? Is this a creation of the Engineers, or from some beings higher up the ladder. The writing on the urns is stylistically very different from the cuneiform type writings we see around the facility in Prometheus (giant head, sleep pod controls, doors)
Quote from: gantarat on Apr 20, 2017, 12:16:56 PM
impossible that david is creator of aliens. don't forget that derelict on LV-426 was crash a least 1000 years and river of pain novel (canon) reveal that ship get crash because Engineers and Xenomorphs has fighting on the ship.
No way, how should i be able to know that? I only watched the movies, those books werent available where i come from.
And the guy that said that in the film (Alien) only said it looks fossilized, it wasnt a statement nor was it a scientific fact.
One thing we can agree on is that the derelict was on a revenge mission to Earth as for what David did to the engineers in Covenant, and that is to bomb us back, but this time with xeno eggs.
And in the end maybe the engineers perfected the xenomorph, giving it the tubes and mechanical look like their suits.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 20, 2017, 12:21:10 PM
The filmmakers do not care about or acknowledge the books.
not to mention the trololol retconning Prometheus meant for the old good Space Jockey thingy, clearly grown off the chair; with his teeth; tongue, the organic ship; the absence of console controls and flutes xD, etc
A suit. Ok Sir Scott ook oooooookk It was a suit lol
Quote from: Infected on Apr 20, 2017, 12:27:58 PM
Quote from: gantarat on Apr 20, 2017, 12:16:56 PM
impossible that david is creator of aliens. don't forget that derelict on LV-426 was crash a least 1000 years and river of pain novel (canon) reveal that ship get crash because Engineers and Xenomorphs has fighting on the ship.
No way, how should i be able to know that? I only watched the movies, those books werent available where i come from.
And the guy that said that in the film (Alien) only said it looks fossilized, it wasnt a statement nor was it a scientific fact.
One thing we can agree on is that the derelict was on a revenge mission to Earth as for what David did to the engineers in Covenant, and that is to bomb us back, but this time with xeno eggs.
And in the end maybe the engineers perfected the xenomorph, giving it the tubes and mechanical look like their suits.
I sincerely doubt that any member of the audience thought "Oh, Dallas is only saying that being looks fossilized, but I bet it's really only been there a couple of years". Dallas' comment is intended to make the viewer believe that the Space Jockey in Alien is ancient.
I for one cannot agree that the derelict was on a revenge mission to Earth because of David's actions. If that happens the entire universe has been reduced pitifully.
And to top it off, a twatty robot from Earth is going to be responsible for the creation of the once gorgeously exotic alien, and the Engineers are going to refine it? I know this is all conjecture but if this is where the story is headed I'm completely out if it does happen.
Quote from: fernandito on Apr 20, 2017, 11:24:00 AM
Quote from: CoalescedChaos on Apr 19, 2017, 11:17:20 PM
There needs to be an explanation as to how those eggs got there under the Derelict in Alien.
mmmh, I've heard the Covenants cargoo makes for 2.000 frozen folks lol. That should make David very happy. A new playground to continue playing God.
Don't misundestand me I've always hated egg morphing with a passion, but I hate the queen a thousand times more
Where would you have the eggs come from then?
Quote from: bobcunk on Apr 19, 2017, 11:08:55 PM
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 19, 2017, 04:05:20 PM
Quote from: locusta on Apr 19, 2017, 04:03:23 PM
That´s why I still hope, the Space Jockey is a different being, then the Engineers.
http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/facepalm.gif
Didnt ridly scot say that the Engineers didnt create humans?
who is ridly scot?
Quote from: 426Buddy on Apr 20, 2017, 12:45:49 PM
Where would you have the eggs come from then?
Just from where Giger's wanted them to come. Produced by the very Derelict ship. Have you ever wondered why the ship kinda resembled a female reproductive system?. Perhaps the jockeys weren't actually the gigantic beings we see in the chair, but right the opposite thing..
Impossible since the jockey retconning in Prometheus I know. But It was a good fools errand uh, and btw the original one coming directly from the Matermind. Giger
Quote from: imbrie on Apr 20, 2017, 12:39:10 PM
Quote from: Infected on Apr 20, 2017, 12:27:58 PM
Quote from: gantarat on Apr 20, 2017, 12:16:56 PM
impossible that david is creator of aliens. don't forget that derelict on LV-426 was crash a least 1000 years and river of pain novel (canon) reveal that ship get crash because Engineers and Xenomorphs has fighting on the ship.
No way, how should i be able to know that? I only watched the movies, those books werent available where i come from.
And the guy that said that in the film (Alien) only said it looks fossilized, it wasnt a statement nor was it a scientific fact.
One thing we can agree on is that the derelict was on a revenge mission to Earth as for what David did to the engineers in Covenant, and that is to bomb us back, but this time with xeno eggs.
And in the end maybe the engineers perfected the xenomorph, giving it the tubes and mechanical look like their suits.
I sincerely doubt that any member of the audience thought "Oh, Dallas is only saying that being looks fossilized, but I bet it's really only been there a couple of years". Dallas' comment is intended to make the viewer believe that the Space Jockey in Alien is ancient.
I for one cannot agree that the derelict was on a revenge mission to Earth because of David's actions. If that happens the entire universe has been reduced pitifully.
And to top it off, a twatty robot from Earth is going to be responsible for the creation of the once gorgeously exotic alien, and the Engineers are going to refine it? I know this is all conjecture but if this is where the story is headed I'm completely out if it does happen.
That was then, we didnt get any real answers after 30 years, so with the knowledge we have now, we can easily say Kane could be wrong, a spacetrucker with the knowledge of nothing more then pipes and smokes didnt know anything, and i bet there was plenty of knowledge available then as we could see from Fifields equipment, but back to the facts, a spacetrucker/space labour guy only saw a degenarated skeleton on an alien ship.
Must be 100 years old doesnt count for it really to be that old, it could easily be that it rapidly lost energy and decaded very fast, its an assumption people like to make with that Kane line.
Why is it wrong to think they wanted revenge? maybe they wanted to go to Earth to perfect us more, or wipe us out like the dinosaurs, what if the ants in your ant farm kill you pet cat, i would capture those ants and poor liquid hot plastic over them.
The engineers are advanced but for a race to be advanced doesnt mean they cant be vengeancefull, we have our social responsible behaviour on a healthy level, but we like war, we like fights we like action and mystery we like science and it would be even more cool if we could experiment on living things, and on the other side what if a cult got the ability to get in to space and have free power in everything, would they restrict themselves with ethical stuff? i dont think so, they would rip through the galaxy and try to be the best at what they are, and the rest is just prey and experimental tissue.
Quote from: fernandito on Apr 20, 2017, 12:57:25 PM
Quote from: 426Buddy on Apr 20, 2017, 12:45:49 PM
Where would you have the eggs come from then?
Just from where Giger's wanted them to come. Produced by the very Derelict ship. Have you ever wondered why the ship kinda resembled a female reproductive system?. Perhaps the jockeys weren't actually the gigantic beings we see in the chair, but right the opposite thing..
Impossible since the jockey retconning in Prometheus I know. But It was a good fools errand uh, and btw the original one coming directly from the Matermind. Giger
You make a lot of sense Fernandito. I remain optimistic that this "ancient terror" angle can be revived in the next installment because, as others have pointed out in this thread, if everything can be wrapped up by David did it/the Engineers are gone then it reduces the scope of what was introduced in Alien by magnitudes.
But, this is all conjecture. Covenant is still not out, and no one here has seen it. For all we know, David decides to reverse engineer something that the Engineers stole (as referenced by Wayne Haag) another species (the Jockeys from Alien... I know, I know... they're supposed to be the Engineers now..).
Also, is there any evidence that the accelerant David uses is from the Citadel or something he brought from the ship?
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 20, 2017, 12:21:10 PM
The filmmakers do not care about or acknowledge the books.
Fox care that why their work with comics/novel writer to make sure story didn't conflict with movies.
and their release wayland book report that mention/reference game/novel/comic that release on 2014-15
Quote from: 426Buddy on Apr 20, 2017, 12:45:49 PM
Quote from: fernandito on Apr 20, 2017, 11:24:00 AM
Quote from: CoalescedChaos on Apr 19, 2017, 11:17:20 PM
There needs to be an explanation as to how those eggs got there under the Derelict in Alien.
mmmh, I've heard the Covenants cargoo makes for 2.000 frozen folks lol. That should make David very happy. A new playground to continue playing God.
Don't misundestand me I've always hated egg morphing with a passion, but I hate the queen a thousand times more
Where would you have the eggs come from then?
From Queen i guess ?,in river of pain novel newt parent found remains of a Queen (and an Engineer) on the ship
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FSZ0hTrW.jpg&hash=6329818613219043701f4cd44aadb14cb9f0fc33)(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fhcthajx.jpg&hash=ae2b16df998e8097196b4421611b49225c714404)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FiO0wngs.jpg&hash=0f0b490c6b17b2c0906275de1acb1ab9769b335e)
http://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/three-exclusive-new-alien-covenant-images-revealed/
Nice! :)
That shot of David bombing the engineers looks pretty awesome.
Quote from: Evanus on Apr 20, 2017, 03:31:05 PM
Nice! :)
That shot of David bombing the engineers looks pretty awesome.
This scene is going to be incredible, I wonder when it will arrive in the film!
Quote from: Stolen on Apr 20, 2017, 03:34:16 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Apr 20, 2017, 03:31:05 PM
Nice! :)
That shot of David bombing the engineers looks pretty awesome.
This scene is going to be incredible, I wonder when it will arrive in the film!
It looks utterly amazing!
It seems that David is standing on the ship, not inside.
Quote from: Ingwar on Apr 20, 2017, 03:41:11 PM
Quote from: Stolen on Apr 20, 2017, 03:34:16 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Apr 20, 2017, 03:31:05 PM
Nice! :)
That shot of David bombing the engineers looks pretty awesome.
This scene is going to be incredible, I wonder when it will arrive in the film!
It looks utterly amazing!
It seems that David is standing on the ship, not inside.
"funny angle mate?" If he is standing on it and they fall from above him, does he have Mario Lakitu cloud dropping them for him?
Woahhh
David bombing is gonna be freaking amazing. And dat Neomorph is gonna f**k some people up, Looks terrifying.,
Quote from: Infected on Apr 20, 2017, 03:55:15 PM
Quote from: Ingwar on Apr 20, 2017, 03:41:11 PM
Quote from: Stolen on Apr 20, 2017, 03:34:16 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Apr 20, 2017, 03:31:05 PM
Nice! :)
That shot of David bombing the engineers looks pretty awesome.
This scene is going to be incredible, I wonder when it will arrive in the film!
It looks utterly amazing!
It seems that David is standing on the ship, not inside.
"funny angle mate?" If he is standing on it and they fall from above him, does he have Mario Lakitu cloud dropping them for him?
We don't know how the mechanism works? :) But you might be right about the angle.
Wow, you really get the scope of the Engineer city, it's architecture, and the sheer number of the inhabitants in that pic. Bombs away!
Now it is more evident that the "Scorpionaut" is a device for the docking of the juggernaut. Look at the structure on the left:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi65.tinypic.com%2F20rwms0.jpg&hash=c3ca4edc7b42b6b5b80d565c7c7e7c1094f5b630)
Quote from: Mustangjeff on Apr 20, 2017, 12:27:32 PM
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 20, 2017, 02:43:44 AM
My strong suspicion is that Ridley now intends to deal directly with both the alien's creation and LV-426/the derelict in AC and future movies, and that he'll use the same pat explanation for both: "David Did It." I think that's tacky and silly and far too overt, the idea of some evil android creating a monster and seeding the ship a handful of years before Alien. I think it's a bad mistake.
IMO all the explanation we ever needed for the alien or the derelict was in the original film and Prometheus. Ridley spent decades gabbing in print, commentary, interviews etc. saying flat-out that the alien was a bioweapon bred by the Engineers/jockeys that got out of control and contributed to wiping them out, much like it did the space jockey on LV-426. Prometheus backs all of this up onscreen by presenting another incident of widespread disaster that contributed to the same wipeout of the Engineer species; more bioweapons that were uncontrollable and helped kill them off. Everything Janek, etc. says in the film contributes to that same thesis Ridley has been pushing since the '70s. It was easy enough to connect the dot between what is uncovered in Prometheus back to events in Alien.
But when Prometheus got a mixed reception and Ridley was out of ideas for the sequel, he moved to directly prequelizing the original film and changing it up - now we have this new latter-day twist with David, and it sounds a lot like he is going to say that David made it all happen, not the Engineers/space jockeys. I think they're fixing what wasn't broken, and breaking it. I just hope they leave room to say David merely copied the creature the Engineers already created. It's all so unnecessary, but for hardcore nerds who love fan service it'll be a squeefest.
I agree..
At this point there are three things that would make me very happy in order of importance to me.
1) Make it obvious that the Xeno/Neo/Deacon type creatures are ancient and were known to the Engineers. David is simply attempting to re-create some ancient soufflé. Even better yet if it was an ancient creation designed to kill the Engineers.
2) Give some answer to the motives of the Engineers. It doesn't need to be Earth centric, but it would be interesting to know their motives behind seeding life and doing planetary scale "resets". What are they trying to accomplish? Are they trying to save their civilization by creating themselves? In a way it makes sense that the sacrificial Engineer would be the most perfect example of an Engineer.
3) Where did the goo come from? Is this a creation of the Engineers, or from some beings higher up the ladder. The writing on the urns is stylistically very different from the cuneiform type writings we see around the facility in Prometheus (giant head, sleep pod controls, doors)
If David is trying to recreate an ancient monster, then the Space Jockey is irrelevant to this prequel series. On the other hand, if Ridley is trying to tell us that David created the biomechanical Alien, then they will have to go back to LV-426. Otherwise that simple detail is going to become a plot hole.
Honestly, I think it would be a big mistake to leave out the Engineers. They are by far the most interesting element in this prequel mythology.
Quote from: Crazy Shrimp on Apr 20, 2017, 04:22:17 PM
Now it is more evident that the "Scorpionaut" is a device for the docking of the juggernaut. Look at the structure on the left:
It is a "Mother-Juggernaut" according to one of the concept artists who worked on the film. Not a "docking device". It actually flies around and is not anchored to the ground.
Quote from: Crazy Shrimp on Apr 20, 2017, 04:22:17 PM
Now it is more evident that the "Scorpionaut" is a device for the docking of the juggernaut. Look at the structure on the left:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi65.tinypic.com%2F20rwms0.jpg&hash=c3ca4edc7b42b6b5b80d565c7c7e7c1094f5b630)
Quote from: Mustangjeff on Apr 20, 2017, 12:27:32 PM
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 20, 2017, 02:43:44 AM
My strong suspicion is that Ridley now intends to deal directly with both the alien's creation and LV-426/the derelict in AC and future movies, and that he'll use the same pat explanation for both: "David Did It." I think that's tacky and silly and far too overt, the idea of some evil android creating a monster and seeding the ship a handful of years before Alien. I think it's a bad mistake.
IMO all the explanation we ever needed for the alien or the derelict was in the original film and Prometheus. Ridley spent decades gabbing in print, commentary, interviews etc. saying flat-out that the alien was a bioweapon bred by the Engineers/jockeys that got out of control and contributed to wiping them out, much like it did the space jockey on LV-426. Prometheus backs all of this up onscreen by presenting another incident of widespread disaster that contributed to the same wipeout of the Engineer species; more bioweapons that were uncontrollable and helped kill them off. Everything Janek, etc. says in the film contributes to that same thesis Ridley has been pushing since the '70s. It was easy enough to connect the dot between what is uncovered in Prometheus back to events in Alien.
But when Prometheus got a mixed reception and Ridley was out of ideas for the sequel, he moved to directly prequelizing the original film and changing it up - now we have this new latter-day twist with David, and it sounds a lot like he is going to say that David made it all happen, not the Engineers/space jockeys. I think they're fixing what wasn't broken, and breaking it. I just hope they leave room to say David merely copied the creature the Engineers already created. It's all so unnecessary, but for hardcore nerds who love fan service it'll be a squeefest.
I agree..
At this point there are three things that would make me very happy in order of importance to me.
1) Make it obvious that the Xeno/Neo/Deacon type creatures are ancient and were known to the Engineers. David is simply attempting to re-create some ancient soufflé. Even better yet if it was an ancient creation designed to kill the Engineers.
2) Give some answer to the motives of the Engineers. It doesn't need to be Earth centric, but it would be interesting to know their motives behind seeding life and doing planetary scale "resets". What are they trying to accomplish? Are they trying to save their civilization by creating themselves? In a way it makes sense that the sacrificial Engineer would be the most perfect example of an Engineer.
3) Where did the goo come from? Is this a creation of the Engineers, or from some beings higher up the ladder. The writing on the urns is stylistically very different from the cuneiform type writings we see around the facility in Prometheus (giant head, sleep pod controls, doors)
If David is trying to recreate an ancient monster, then the Space Jockey is irrelevant to this prequel series. On the other hand, if Ridley is trying to tell us that David created the biomechanical Alien, then they will have to go back to LV-426. Otherwise that simple detail is going to become a plot hole.
Honestly, I think it would be a big mistake to leave out the Engineers. They are by far the most interesting element in this prequel mythology.
I think you're right. I really do..
That picture of the Urns dropping is staggering. Wow, I can't wait to see that
funny, i actually concluded that indeed it's the scorpionaut ship too where the urns drop from, and wanted to be sure about it so taking some time to investigate, then came back to post and see somebody else posted the same :D
but yes, it is definately the scorpionaut that drops it, and it's at the same exact moment. you can see the population flock towards the central opening. perhaps some sort of refuge place for them to think they're safe there?
Quote from: Ingwar on Apr 20, 2017, 04:03:19 PM
Quote from: Infected on Apr 20, 2017, 03:55:15 PM
Quote from: Ingwar on Apr 20, 2017, 03:41:11 PM
Quote from: Stolen on Apr 20, 2017, 03:34:16 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Apr 20, 2017, 03:31:05 PM
Nice! :)
That shot of David bombing the engineers looks pretty awesome.
This scene is going to be incredible, I wonder when it will arrive in the film!
It looks utterly amazing!
It seems that David is standing on the ship, not inside.
"funny angle mate?" If he is standing on it and they fall from above him, does he have Mario Lakitu cloud dropping them for him?
We don't know how the mechanism works? :) But you might be right about the angle.
Its also the lighting, if he was on top then he would be in the light, the shadows show us he is inside a cargo bay most likely.
But look at that city, looks huge, i thought it was just a yard, i see lots of buildings.
Looking good,especially the shot of David and the Urns.
Those Engineers are buggered.
I can easily imagine Kubrick's score for 2001 Space Odyssey track 03:Requiem for Soprano being played in the background when those Urns drop.And we all know how much Ridley admires Kubrick's work.
LINK: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhwWAciO6F4
Fitting music for that scene...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufpktF5T1r0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufpktF5T1r0)
Quote from: Enoch on Apr 20, 2017, 07:04:41 PM
Fitting music for that scene...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufpktF5T1r0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufpktF5T1r0)
Good choice Enochito. Can't wait to see what is in store!
27 DAYS more. :D
Quote from: Pauli on Apr 20, 2017, 05:55:16 PM
Looking good,especially the shot of David and the Urns.
Those Engineers are buggered.
Yeah, they're so f**ked.
Spoiler
Gotta wonder if Shaw played apart in this as well?
Quote from: Crazy Shrimp on Apr 20, 2017, 04:22:17 PM
Now it is more evident that the "Scorpionaut" is a device for the docking of the juggernaut. Look at the structure on the left:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi65.tinypic.com%2F20rwms0.jpg&hash=c3ca4edc7b42b6b5b80d565c7c7e7c1094f5b630)
Quote from: Mustangjeff on Apr 20, 2017, 12:27:32 PM
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 20, 2017, 02:43:44 AM
My strong suspicion is that Ridley now intends to deal directly with both the alien's creation and LV-426/the derelict in AC and future movies, and that he'll use the same pat explanation for both: "David Did It." I think that's tacky and silly and far too overt, the idea of some evil android creating a monster and seeding the ship a handful of years before Alien. I think it's a bad mistake.
IMO all the explanation we ever needed for the alien or the derelict was in the original film and Prometheus. Ridley spent decades gabbing in print, commentary, interviews etc. saying flat-out that the alien was a bioweapon bred by the Engineers/jockeys that got out of control and contributed to wiping them out, much like it did the space jockey on LV-426. Prometheus backs all of this up onscreen by presenting another incident of widespread disaster that contributed to the same wipeout of the Engineer species; more bioweapons that were uncontrollable and helped kill them off. Everything Janek, etc. says in the film contributes to that same thesis Ridley has been pushing since the '70s. It was easy enough to connect the dot between what is uncovered in Prometheus back to events in Alien.
But when Prometheus got a mixed reception and Ridley was out of ideas for the sequel, he moved to directly prequelizing the original film and changing it up - now we have this new latter-day twist with David, and it sounds a lot like he is going to say that David made it all happen, not the Engineers/space jockeys. I think they're fixing what wasn't broken, and breaking it. I just hope they leave room to say David merely copied the creature the Engineers already created. It's all so unnecessary, but for hardcore nerds who love fan service it'll be a squeefest.
I agree..
At this point there are three things that would make me very happy in order of importance to me.
1) Make it obvious that the Xeno/Neo/Deacon type creatures are ancient and were known to the Engineers. David is simply attempting to re-create some ancient soufflé. Even better yet if it was an ancient creation designed to kill the Engineers.
2) Give some answer to the motives of the Engineers. It doesn't need to be Earth centric, but it would be interesting to know their motives behind seeding life and doing planetary scale "resets". What are they trying to accomplish? Are they trying to save their civilization by creating themselves? In a way it makes sense that the sacrificial Engineer would be the most perfect example of an Engineer.
3) Where did the goo come from? Is this a creation of the Engineers, or from some beings higher up the ladder. The writing on the urns is stylistically very different from the cuneiform type writings we see around the facility in Prometheus (giant head, sleep pod controls, doors)
If David is trying to recreate an ancient monster, then the Space Jockey is irrelevant to this prequel series. On the other hand, if Ridley is trying to tell us that David created the biomechanical Alien, then they will have to go back to LV-426. Otherwise that simple detail is going to become a plot hole.
Honestly, I think it would be a big mistake to leave out the Engineers. They are by far the most interesting element in this prequel mythology.
It appears to be a docking station after all. Good catch.
David looking those under his feets:
4:41
https://youtu.be/Ieq2GrQSftc?t=4m41s (https://youtu.be/Ieq2GrQSftc?t=4m41s)
Maybe something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPR8RcaqE28 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPR8RcaqE28)
If you look at the chair where Weyland and David are talking. It has a very similar shape to what you guys call the scorpionaut or whatever. Its inverted with a circle in the middle. This could be the. Hint that the juggernaut and scorpio do actually connect.
Quote from: Apex Predator on Apr 20, 2017, 09:33:27 PM
If you look at the chair where Weyland and David are talking. It has a very similar shape to what you guys call the scorpionaut or whatever. Its inverted with a circle in the middle. This could be the. Hint that the juggernaut and scorpio do actually connect.
Well it wouldn't be shocking if Weyland is a "direct" descendant of the engineers. Hence the peculiar chair design.
All those music selections are very apposite, but I think we all know David will be humming something more akin to this in his head when he goo bombs the planet.
Or this
So the Neomorph can rap its tail around its victims? That first coil around the leg is too clean to be viscera, and the colors match. Creepy. I wonder if it will grow additionally when feeding, maybe see more spikes emerge or grow larger when it feeds. Most likely not, but man would that be scary.
Second picture.
These are not bombs.
The neomorph seems much more "human" that the xeno. Creepy as hell.
Quote from: Pow wow on Apr 20, 2017, 11:38:25 PM
Second picture.
These are not bombs.
it seems like he is unleashing containers of black goo over something, i dont wanna know the pictures are cool
the one with the Neomorph is sick, very sexual and violent and morbid at the same time and the flesh is a nice contrast with the regular Aliens, love it, this movie is gonna be very dark and violent
so now shaw's piloting the the ship and sussed out the flute tune for the bomb bay doors?.....mnnnnn
Is the bit about Shaw wearing Pearls true or not? I mean if she is... then clearly she must have went back to the life boat to raid Vickers loot.
Im hoping if there is a new trailer before may they wont have footage of the bombing scene. I really want to save that for the theater. I may avoid a new trailer all together, hard as that will be
Quote from: D88M on Apr 21, 2017, 01:26:22 AM
Quote from: Pow wow on Apr 20, 2017, 11:38:25 PM
Second picture.
These are not bombs.
it seems like he is unleashing containers of black goo over something, i dont wanna know the pictures are cool
the one with the Neomorph is sick, very sexual and violent and morbid at the same time and the flesh is a nice contrast with the regular Aliens, love it, this movie is gonna be very dark and violent
Who the hell are you quoting? And by containers you mean the urn shaped vases??
Here are better quality copies of the rest of the stills -
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/empire-cap-01.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/empire-cap-02.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/empire-cap-03.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/empire-cap-04.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/empire-cap-05.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/empire-cap-07.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/empire-cap-11.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/empire-cap-06.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/empire-cap-08.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/empire-cap-09.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/empire-cap-10.jpg)
They're superb Hicks, nice one.
Is that an Empire mishap with the shooting location for the Scott & Cast image?
Looks like they had a little mix-up with Prometheus.
The Alien on all fours looks beautiful. Like a cross between the original, the Runner and the Resurrection Aliens
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/empire-cap-11.jpg)
I like this one ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Quote from: Adorianu on Apr 21, 2017, 11:03:07 AM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/empire-cap-11.jpg)
I like this one ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Those are some chunky nips!
I love the new practical chestburster, but i think we will miss the classsic "snake" version.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 21, 2017, 10:10:30 AM
Here are better quality copies of the rest of the stills -
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/empire-cap-05.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/empire-cap-06.jpg)
It reminds me a bit of Giger's Alien 3 design and.... translucent alien. Don't know why anyone would complain about this design, it looks great.
From what we saw i just hate the idea that Android from Earth killed all the Engineers and im sure he will create Xenomorph.Its so unoriginal,a lot of speculations from fans are much better ,respecting some Giger mystery vibes,hate how they ruined this huge mysterious giant from Alien 1 and now we have some white generic bald dudes.
Quote from: Omegamorph on Apr 21, 2017, 10:33:03 AM
The Alien on all fours looks beautiful. Like a cross between the original, the Runner and the Resurrection Aliens
That's the one I like the least! :laugh: But I really dig that transparent Bambi-burster type.
Quote from: D88M on Apr 21, 2017, 01:26:22 AM
the one with the Neomorph is ... very sexual
???
....Nipples...
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 21, 2017, 10:10:30 AM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/empire-cap-07.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/empire-cap-07.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tvovermind.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F11%2FObservers.PNG&hash=ee367088af3b0046b7922807ea9452750afc5582)
Fringe, Observers and pseudo Engineers from Alien: Covenant... :D
Any relation between the two?
Engineers are just advanced humans, with a bit older but still identical genome.
Perheaps these guys are also humans? (Observers in Fringe are humans from the future,
with alterated genome). I have a feeling David destroyed the wrong guys. Why did he destroy them in
the first place, that is still not completely clear to me.
Strong possibility: These guys are the children of Engineers, just like humans. What we see is the early stage of created civilisation. Why is there only one ship, because that ship is not theirs but of their visitors/creators/tutors. Remember how Engineers visited Earth and early human civilisations... :) Every inconsistencies and illogical things can always be explained, because those thing are not inconsistent and illogical at all, only our preception is ;)
EDIT: Another interesting thing is of cource our translation of "Engineer script" from paradise structures:
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=54532.0 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=54532.0)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.newsapi.com.au%2Fimage%2Fv1%2F010871b6b73473b1ef38fdc95124d01d%3Fwidth%3D650&hash=0865760390277dc6f5e7d41178d97f825c512e34)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/prometheus/concept/concept0449.jpg)
"From our death, our children will rise."
I was wondering when The Riddler was going to make another appearance.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 21, 2017, 10:10:30 AM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/empire-cap-07.jpg)
kind of funny that image with them engineers realizing it's raining epic LeLz upon them
So far everything looks pretty damn amazing! Everything but those pale dudes which just can not be Engineers. They don't even have the black eyes and spot far too human skin tones... :(
They're Engineers. Ridley changed the makeup.
Quote from: John Doe on Apr 21, 2017, 11:09:40 AM
I love the new practical chestburster, but i think we will miss the classsic "snake" version.
Same, hopefully this doesn't mean that we'll never be seeing the classic burster again.
I think this is where I get off... they are showing too much!
I think David arrives luckily at the same time as that scorpion ship, they gather for some reason and David catches his opportunity.
And we will be left with the question, why did they gather and who was piloting that craft and what was its reason for hanging there vertically.
Quote from: Infected on Apr 21, 2017, 01:34:37 PM
I think David arrives luckily at the same time as that scorpion ship, they gather for some reason and David catches his opportunity.
And we will be left with the question, why did they gather and who was piloting that craft and what was its reason for hanging there vertically.
Very possibe. Its quite obvious they prepared for some kind of ceremony.
Quote from: Infected on Apr 21, 2017, 01:34:37 PM
I think David arrives luckily at the same time as that scorpion ship, they gather for some reason and David catches his opportunity.
And we will be left with the question, why did they gather and who was piloting that craft and what was its reason for hanging there vertically.
We are less than a month away from finding out!
Remember how in Prometheus the Engineer ship at the beginning took off vertically? I wonder if that is the case here as well—that it was in the process of leaving?
As others have said, the neomorph design is very generic. Monsters such as that are ten a penny in movies and videogames. The first thing I thought of when seeing it, was the creature from the 1999 remake of 'House on Haunted Hill' (itself an unused design by Dick Smith for 1981's 'Ghost Story')...
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FvUVJLlv.jpg&hash=97b3d993e99f3829098f144a65bf7187571572f9)
Maybe they're escaping because they know what is coming. It's possible they know what happened on LV-223 and that there is a threat (David) coming there way. They're evacuating.
Or they're there to welcome the Juggernaut and the Scorpion ship is what the reports said, a dock.
Quote from: St_Eddie on Apr 21, 2017, 01:49:37 PM
As others have said, the neomorph design is very generic. Monsters such as that are ten a penny in movies and videogames. The first thing I thought of when seeing it, was the creature from the 1999 remake of 'House on Haunted Hill' (itself an unused design by Dick Smith for 1981's 'Ghost Story')...
http://i.imgur.com/vUVJLlv.jpg
Everything is generic these days, it's the details that matter. Being generic isn't inherently bad, it leads to perfection when done right. Like this...
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10003/iO0wngs.jpg)
Quote from: hfeldhaus on Apr 21, 2017, 01:51:25 PM
Maybe they're escaping because they know what is coming. It's possible they know what happened on LV-223 and that there is a threat (David) coming there way. They're evacuating.
Or they're there to welcome the Juggernaut and the Scorpion ship is what the reports said, a dock.
Probably this.
Quote from: Nyarlathotep on Apr 21, 2017, 01:29:19 PM
Quote from: John Doe on Apr 21, 2017, 11:09:40 AM
I love the new practical chestburster, but i think we will miss the classsic "snake" version.
Same, hopefully this doesn't mean that we'll never be seeing the classic burster again.
The classic burster just looks like a snake or a worm with teeth, not very scary or original. The special effect of it moving across the table is almost comical. The bambi burster from Alien 3 and the deacon look great, though.
Quote from: St_Eddie on Apr 21, 2017, 01:49:37 PM
As others have said, the neomorph design is very generic. Monsters such as that are ten a penny in movies and videogames. The first thing I thought of when seeing it, was the creature from the 1999 remake of 'House on Haunted Hill' (itself an unused design by Dick Smith for 1981's 'Ghost Story')...
http://i.imgur.com/vUVJLlv.jpg
The Neomorph looks way better than that, particularly the body. I understand what you mean by the face, though. Still like the design and the special effects from what we've seen (aside from that one shot).
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 21, 2017, 01:28:46 PMThey're Engineers.
Except for the dude in the hat.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coinbox.com.au%2Fforty%2Fnup2.jpg&hash=51954f66afbf9a6a5887ebae5b5f938f618b7a1e)
I'm not keen on the forward shot of the neomorph going in for the attack. I need to see the final film in order to be convinced of its necessity. If its mouth moves like the deacon's did, then it would be pretty cool.
I like how the neomorph's design is a direct reference to the unused creature design in Prometheus:
(https://alienseries.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/orig_creatures302.jpg)
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Apr 21, 2017, 01:58:58 PM
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 21, 2017, 01:28:46 PMThey're Engineers.
Except for the dude in the hat.
http://www.coinbox.com.au/forty/nup2.jpg
Who's that duder?
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Apr 21, 2017, 01:58:58 PM
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 21, 2017, 01:28:46 PMThey're Engineers.
Except for the dude in the hat.
http://www.coinbox.com.au/forty/nup2.jpg
Cannot... unsee.
Maybe the Engineers have different hat types? ???
Quote from: lv_226 on Apr 21, 2017, 01:39:33 PM
Quote from: Infected on Apr 21, 2017, 01:34:37 PM
I think David arrives luckily at the same time as that scorpion ship, they gather for some reason and David catches his opportunity.
And we will be left with the question, why did they gather and who was piloting that craft and what was its reason for hanging there vertically.
We are less than a month away from finding out!
Remember how in Prometheus the Engineer ship at the beginning took off vertically? I wonder if that is the case here as well—that it was in the process of leaving?
Its taking so f**kin long.
Yeah but that was a disc shaped saucer type ship, its possible it was leaving, maybe the real jockey came to harvest their precious young engineer baby's, like Rick Grimes camp does for Neegan and every once in a while they come to collect thangs and stuff.
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Apr 21, 2017, 01:58:58 PM
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 21, 2017, 01:28:46 PMThey're Engineers.
Except for the dude in the hat.
http://www.coinbox.com.au/forty/nup2.jpg
That's damn stupid. Oy.
And yeah -
House on Haunted Hill is just one of the low-budget horror flicks that used the similar face design over the last 20 years. It became old hat. I really don't think it looks good on the grown neomorph from the front. The side view is excellent, so we'll see how it looks onscreen when fully captured.
So, we're sure David and Shaw are on the horizontally flying ship and not the scorpionaut?
It's a bit depressing that a lot of key scenes have now been spoiled through publicity hype. Now that it's become clear what David 8 does, it amuses me that early 21st century Israel Iron Dome technology is actually a more advanced than what the Engineers have come up with... Shouldn't they have something to protect their colonised planets from, say, a completely natural series of asteroid bombardments?
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 21, 2017, 02:13:54 PM
And yeah - House on Haunted Hill is just one of the low-budget horror flicks that used the similar face design over the last 20 years. It became old hat.
'
Cabin In The Woods' did it the best.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/c9/9f/ff/c99fff9dfe2d0a4d25f5ecdcc1d7da2c.jpg)
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Apr 21, 2017, 03:22:47 PM
It's a bit depressing that a lot of key scenes have now been spoiled through publicity hype.
They did the same thing with a lot of
Prometheus and both times I feel it's been a mistake.
And yes, I think the apparent setup with how to get rid of the Engineers
/inconvenient storylines is very lazy and random, even if the setpiece is almost certainly going to be gorgeous to watch.
Quote'Cabin In The Woods' did it the best.
And even then it was old!
If they're truly going to kill off all the engineers, :(, I don't see how they could squeeze two more movies out of this story.
I suppose we'll just have to wait and see.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Apr 21, 2017, 03:22:47 PM
It's a bit depressing that a lot of key scenes have now been spoiled through publicity hype. Now that it's become clear what David 8 does, it amuses me that early 21st century Israel Iron Dome technology is actually a more advanced than what the Engineers have come up with... Shouldn't they have something to protect their colonised planets from, say, a completely natural series of asteroid bombardments?
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 21, 2017, 02:13:54 PM
And yeah - House on Haunted Hill is just one of the low-budget horror flicks that used the similar face design over the last 20 years. It became old hat.
'Cabin In The Woods' did it the best.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/c9/9f/ff/c99fff9dfe2d0a4d25f5ecdcc1d7da2c.jpg)
Why would they shoot down their own ship?
Who's to say they're are as violent to there own kind as humans are?
Quote from: Evanus on Apr 21, 2017, 03:31:01 PM
If they're truly going to kill off all the engineers, :(, I don't see how they could squeeze two more movies out of this story.
My concern is that the very literal prequelization approach evident in elements of this film and Ridley's recent comments about future direction is going to lead us down the road to the
Thing prequel, where you ended up seeing how every little bit happened right down to an axe in the door or a frozen guy with slashed wrists, no matter the contrivance to get there.
I just don't feel this franchise or these monsters need that, I feel it diminishes them. I felt the meta-prequel/sequel approach
Prometheus had, for all its faults, which led to a wider canvas and left the alien and the backstory of the first film mostly undiluted, was best.
I know I seem relentlessly down on the larger story direction and that's because I honestly am. But I also feel AC looks gorgeous style-wise and I expect it to be a fun and scary movie.
Agreed, man. :( I don't really like the direction they're taking either.
But like you said, at least these films will be scary, entertaining and gorgeous looking.
Not many people liked the direction Prometheus took, and from what has been said in interviews it looks like Covenant is going to follow that.
I think AC is actually a very overt move away from Prometheus. Which I can understand on one level, but creatively I feel it's regressing.
The same questions are being asked just now there is an Alien in it, and more of a horror angle. That's what I'm seeing. The question of creation comes with David and we've had nothing of him during marketing. David is the link to Prometheus, he will bring the questions and, hopefully, answers this time.
Like you said there is regression to the series base. It's what the majority of fans wanted. Prometheus did move far away, which isn't a bad thing. It was just horribly executed.
Quote from: lv_226 on Apr 21, 2017, 01:59:48 PM
I'm not keen on the forward shot of the neomorph going in for the attack. I need to see the final film in order to be convinced of its necessity. If its mouth moves like the deacon's did, then it would be pretty cool.
I like how the neomorph's design is a direct reference to the unused creature design in Prometheus:
(https://alienseries.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/orig_creatures302.jpg)
In Empire magazine you can read that Neomorph is inspired by Goblin Shark,so his jaw probably will be working like this:
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/e1/42/b7/e142b77fe57a4c0ee2e12e5d2855c4fc.jpg)
(https://i1.wp.com/bloody-disgusting.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Screen-Shot-2017-04-03-at-8.20.12-AM.jpg?resize=960%2C394)
Stupid fish. Swam right in :laugh:
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 21, 2017, 10:10:30 AM
Here are better quality copies of the rest of the stills -
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/empire-cap-01.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/empire-cap-02.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/empire-cap-03.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/empire-cap-04.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/empire-cap-05.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/empire-cap-07.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/empire-cap-11.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/empire-cap-06.jpg)
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/empire-cap-08.jpg
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/empire-cap-09.jpg
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/empire-cap-10.jpg
(https://freecomedymoviesblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/free-comedy-movies-5.jpg)
If they had given the Engineers black contact lenses, it would make up for their rather humanoid look here-which admittedly, is the only thing about this that has bugged me so far.
I never thought I would see an engineer wearing a hat
With a large amount of extras it's probably just easier to simplify the design to make application quicker. It's not a glamorous explanation, but it's most likely why the look was changed.
That said, the look isn't vastly different. Just not as detailed.
The picture of the supposed Engineers doesn't look right to me. They are a different colour to start with, and if you remember, their eyes in Prometheus were completely black and shiny. These guys look very different.
Quote from: Morose on Apr 21, 2017, 07:14:15 PM
I never thought I would see an engineer wearing a hat
What if i told you that isnt an engineer, but someone who got on that planet by accident, when the engineers tried to kill off his planet he disquised himself as one of them and since then he is trying to escape them but cant, and now he is faced with the horror of David, and nobody will ever know his story and pain until now.
Quote from: Morose on Apr 21, 2017, 07:14:15 PM
I never thought I would see an engineer wearing a hat
hahah
The more I look at that Engineer picture the more angry I become.
Whatever happened to these?
(https://i0.wp.com/bloody-disgusting.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/prometheus_elder-1.jpg?resize=620%2C248)
Now, *those* designs I can buy had something to do with the creation/re-creation of ancient evil. These new guys just look like extras from Dark City:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnerdist.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F02%2FDark-City-Main.jpg&hash=8c182596051d562c0d305afb6ecdd6b38a718274)
Quote from: lv_226 on Apr 21, 2017, 08:38:01 PM
The more I look at that Engineer picture the more angry I become.
Whatever happened to these?
(https://i0.wp.com/bloody-disgusting.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/prometheus_elder-1.jpg?resize=620%2C248)
Now, *those* designs I can buy had something to do with the creation/re-creation of ancient evil. These new guys just look like extras from Dark City:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnerdist.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F02%2FDark-City-Main.jpg&hash=8c182596051d562c0d305afb6ecdd6b38a718274)
What is there to be mad at? You dont know the context of the scene.
They're engineers. That's enough context. :D
Quote from: Evanus on Apr 21, 2017, 09:25:12 PM
They're engineers. That's enough context. :D
It's the aesthetics that are important. Y'know, the black eyes, tall stature, etc.
Is NECA going to release a new line of pink engineers? They gotta do the one with the hat.
Quote from: Evanus on Apr 21, 2017, 09:25:12 PM
They're engineers. That's enough context. :D
They're nothing but savages living in dirty little caves!
We really don't have the elements to make any conclusions.
We don't know if the planet is really Paradise.
We know almost nothing about engineers. Race in decline? Secluded sect? Fallen angels? Terraformists?...
Who are the gods? The engineers ? The Hall Of Heads represents gods??
We don't know why David does this!
We don't know what happened to Shaw.
Too early to see where Scott wants to go!
I just think that franchise takes a great direction
Prometheus opened a new door for the Alien universe, and Covenant will extend it.
And if a script is already written for the sequel, then there must be a lot of things to develop!
Quote from: Stolen on Apr 21, 2017, 09:50:48 PM
We really don't have the elements to make any conclusions.
We don't know if the planet is really Paradise.
We know almost nothing about engineers. Race in decline? Secluded sect? Fallen angels? Terraformists?...
Who are the gods? The engineers ? The Hall Of Heads represents gods??
We don't know why David does this!
We don't know what happened to Shaw.
Too early to see where Scott wants to go!
I just think that franchise takes a great direction
Prometheus opened a new door for the Alien universe, and Covenant will extend it.
And if a script is already written for the sequel, then there must be a lot of things to develop!
(https://m.popkey.co/61642c/WxA4D.gif)
Quote from: Enoch on Apr 21, 2017, 09:55:05 PM
Quote from: Stolen on Apr 21, 2017, 09:50:48 PM
We really don't have the elements to make any conclusions.
We don't know if the planet is really Paradise.
We know almost nothing about engineers. Race in decline? Secluded sect? Fallen angels? Terraformists?...
Who are the gods? The engineers ? The Hall Of Heads represents gods??
We don't know why David does this!
We don't know what happened to Shaw.
Too early to see where Scott wants to go!
I just think that franchise takes a great direction
Prometheus opened a new door for the Alien universe, and Covenant will extend it.
And if a script is already written for the sequel, then there must be a lot of things to develop!
https://m.popkey.co/61642c/WxA4D.gif
Great gif. Lol.
Quote from: Evanus on Apr 21, 2017, 09:25:12 PM
They're engineers. That's enough context. :D
You don't know that either
Quote from: Scorpio on Apr 21, 2017, 01:56:29 PM
Quote from: Nyarlathotep on Apr 21, 2017, 01:29:19 PM
Quote from: John Doe on Apr 21, 2017, 11:09:40 AM
I love the new practical chestburster, but i think we will miss the classsic "snake" version.
Same, hopefully this doesn't mean that we'll never be seeing the classic burster again.
The classic burster just looks like a snake or a worm with teeth, not very scary or original. The special effect of it moving across the table is almost comical. The bambi burster from Alien 3 and the deacon look great, though.
Reported for hate speech.
He isn't really wrong, the part where it runs away in alien does loo bad. This one looks like the alien 3 buster.
Quote from: bobcunk on Apr 21, 2017, 10:58:00 PM
He isn't really wrong, the part where it runs away in alien does loo bad.
Agreed. I adore
'Alien', it's one of my all-time favourite films but that moment definitely falls into the category of what TV Tropes would refer to as 'narm'.
See also; the jarring cut from dummy Ash head to Ian Holm sticking his head through a hole in the table and the man-in-a-suit shot of the xenomorph outside of the shuttle.
Aside from those three moments; a masterful work of art and a true masterpiece of a filum.
I never understood why they cut it like that. All they had to do was cut back to Ripley reaction and then the the real head.
Quote from: Nyarlathotep on Apr 21, 2017, 10:36:06 PM
Quote from: Scorpio on Apr 21, 2017, 01:56:29 PM
Quote from: Nyarlathotep on Apr 21, 2017, 01:29:19 PM
Quote from: John Doe on Apr 21, 2017, 11:09:40 AM
I love the new practical chestburster, but i think we will miss the classsic "snake" version.
Same, hopefully this doesn't mean that we'll never be seeing the classic burster again.
The classic burster just looks like a snake or a worm with teeth, not very scary or original. The special effect of it moving across the table is almost comical. The bambi burster from Alien 3 and the deacon look great, though.
Reported for hate speech.
Local Trouble? Is this your secret second account?
:P ;D
Quote from: Ragonk_Force on Apr 21, 2017, 10:10:40 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Apr 21, 2017, 09:25:12 PM
They're engineers. That's enough context. :D
You don't know that either
Yep. Maybe the bombing scene doesn't even happen on the same planet the Covenant lands on and for all we know, David could have swapped out the black goo in the ampules for butterflies.
Quote from: bobcunk on Apr 21, 2017, 11:18:46 PM
I never understood why they cut it like that. All they had to do was cut back to Ripley reaction and then the the real head.
It certainly is baffling but what's even more baffling is why Ridley Scott didn't fix it for the Director's Cut. It's one of the worst edits that I've ever seen in a film.
Quote from: Stolen on Apr 21, 2017, 09:50:48 PM
We really don't have the elements to make any conclusions.
We don't know if the planet is really Paradise.
We know almost nothing about engineers. Race in decline? Secluded sect? Fallen angels? Terraformists?...
Who are the gods? The engineers ? The Hall Of Heads represents gods??
They were once a thriving civilisation millions of years ago, seeding Earth with humans and repeatedly making visits. Eventually they intended to destroy us but that never happened because lots of them died off. LV-223 became an ancient tomb and David wipes out what is left of them on their homeworld. The lone engineer on LV-223 was asleep for ~2,000 years and no one woke him up until humans got there, David has the engineer's homeworld to himself for nearly a decade, and their presence as a living civilisation is non-existent in the original films.
They definitely aren't hiding from us, they're just gone now. Unless Ridley Scott really does intend to make "Awakening" some sort of prequel to Covenant, there won't be any more engineers after this.
Quote from: Predaker on Apr 22, 2017, 12:50:12 AM
Quote from: Stolen on Apr 21, 2017, 09:50:48 PM
We really don't have the elements to make any conclusions.
We don't know if the planet is really Paradise.
We know almost nothing about engineers. Race in decline? Secluded sect? Fallen angels? Terraformists?...
Who are the gods? The engineers ? The Hall Of Heads represents gods??
They were once a thriving civilisation millions of years ago, seeding Earth with humans and repeatedly making visits. Eventually they intended to destroy us but that never happened because lots of them died off. LV-223 became an ancient tomb and David wipes out what is left of them on their homeworld. The lone engineer on LV-223 was asleep for ~2,000 years and no one woke him up until humans got there, David has the engineer's homeworld to himself for nearly a decade, and their presence as a living civilisation is non-existent in the original films.
They definitely aren't hiding from us, they're just gone now. Unless Ridley Scott really does intend to make "Awakening" some sort of prequel to Covenant, there won't be any more engineers after this.
If the classic Alien is a creation of David's then there's still at least one last living Engineer. If David is recreating the Alien, then yeah, it's possible all of them are dead.
The alien can be created by David using the Engineer's existing tech and black mutagen, which he has learned how to use. None need be left alive.
Then who's in the Derelict pilot's chair?
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 21, 2017, 03:27:09 PM
And even then it was old!
Kind of! But that's why they combined it with the innocence of a young ballerina. Helps to subvert expectations through subversion.
This thing is more like a blobby tadpole.
Quote from: hfeldhaus on Apr 21, 2017, 03:33:45 PM
Why would they shoot down their own ship?
Iron Dome isn't primarily designed to shoot down aircraft. It's there to target and destroy individual missiles and even mortar shells which are headed towards civilian areas. The urns would be easy for even a system like that, much less something millions of years in advance.
QuoteWho's to say they're are as violent to there own kind as humans are?
That's why I gave the example of asteroid strikes. :) Stuff like that can come out of nowhere and you'd either want some kind of energy shield (which clearly isn't present here) or a way of destroying them before they hit populated areas.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 22, 2017, 01:37:29 AM
Then who's in the Derelict pilot's chair?
Precisely.
Quote from: St_Eddie on Apr 21, 2017, 01:49:37 PM
As others have said, the neomorph design is very generic. Monsters such as that are ten a penny in movies and videogames. The first thing I thought of when seeing it, was the creature from the 1999 remake of 'House on Haunted Hill' (itself an unused design by Dick Smith for 1981's 'Ghost Story')...
http://i.imgur.com/vUVJLlv.jpg
The first thing I thought of was, the evil dead demon.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette3.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fevildead%2Fimages%2F6%2F64%2FAsh-vs-evil-dead-eligos.jpg&hash=8ca327a92018eab2bb182372c87a42451ed07a9e)
Quote from: bobcunk on Apr 21, 2017, 11:18:46 PM
I never understood why they cut it like that. All they had to do was cut back to Ripley reaction and then the the real head.
Because a cut like that would be way more cheesier. Ridley Scott doesn't like to BS the audience.
There is a version that does just that and it looks way better.
Quote from: SM on Apr 22, 2017, 02:24:53 AM
There is a version that does just that and it looks way better.
There is? I disagree though, that shot works because later on they cut back to Ash's head and it's the dummy head again, so it's like every time he gets deactivated he goes back to the dummy head.
Besides, you can't fool the audience with a reaction shot.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 22, 2017, 01:37:29 AM
Then who's in the Derelict pilot's chair?
Quote from: Predaker on Apr 17, 2017, 08:49:56 PM
For all intents and purposes they are extinct by the time we get to ALIEN ... If we're really lucky, we might see one more die in this prequel series.
Hopefully not David, Shaw, Daniels, Tennessee the "pilot," etc. I personally prefer it remain ancient as originally intended. If they are going to keep retconning the space jockey any further, I wouldn't mind if it turns out to be David (after he "enhances" himself into a biomechanical being.)
Quote from: Scorpio on Apr 22, 2017, 02:29:22 AM
There is? I disagree though, that shot works because later on they cut back to Ash's head and it's the dummy head again, so it's like every time he gets deactivated he goes back to the dummy head.
It doesn't work though, because it's a really obvious cut from the dummy to the live head.
QuoteBesides, you can't fool the audience with a reaction shot.
Of course you can. Even worked for the chest bursting.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 22, 2017, 02:44:03 AM
Quote from: Scorpio on Apr 22, 2017, 02:29:22 AM
There is? I disagree though, that shot works because later on they cut back to Ash's head and it's the dummy head again, so it's like every time he gets deactivated he goes back to the dummy head.
It doesn't work though, because it's a really obvious cut from the dummy to the live head.
It is, and Ridley Scott knew that and he couldn't trick the audience so he made it part of the narrative.
QuoteQuoteBesides, you can't fool the audience with a reaction shot.
Of course you can. Even worked for the chest bursting.
But that's a super dramatic moment where you have to cut to people's faces to show emotion.
Lightened up the alien scan. The skull face is pretty neat to see again on screen.
Quote from: Scorpio on Apr 22, 2017, 02:47:33 AM
But that's a super dramatic moment where you have to cut to people's faces to show emotion.
A reaction cut to Lambert disgusted by the idea of turning Ash back on would work just fine.
Quote from: Rabbit2100 on Apr 22, 2017, 03:05:12 AM
Lightened up the alien scan. The skull face is pretty neat to see again on screen.
Notice the lack of slime as well. The alien from A:R to AVPR always was covered in slime.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 22, 2017, 03:19:33 AM
Quote from: Scorpio on Apr 22, 2017, 02:47:33 AM
But that's a super dramatic moment where you have to cut to people's faces to show emotion.
A reaction cut to Lambert disgusted by the idea of turning Ash back on would work just fine.
That sounds cheesy. I'm sure Ridley Scott did the best with what he had to work with.
I've been hoping for a long time that we would actually get to see a planet or moon being vase/egg bombed and the resulting chaos.
Good things do come to those who wait!
That tall structure most def has a Predator architecture vibe.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 22, 2017, 01:37:29 AM
Then who's in the Derelict pilot's chair?
One of millions of Engineers who died millennia ago, just like the ones on LV-223. That was my takeaway from
Prometheus - that they'd been wiped out by their own plague aeons ago and that what had happened on 223 was representative of what had happened with the jockey on LV-426. The story in the film followed the same details as what Scott had been saying about the jockey for decades, that it was carrying a ship full of bioweapons that got out of control and died long ago. This has always been the story and Scott's never seemed keen on f**king with it, including in
Prometheus - until maybe right now.
Making up some entirely new story for what became of the jockey on LV-426 seems pointless and silly to me given that well-established framework. As does potentially sealing someone in there (or seeding the ship) only 20 years before
Alien. I find that incredibly dumb.
Quote from: Scorpio on Apr 22, 2017, 02:29:22 AM
Quote from: SM on Apr 22, 2017, 02:24:53 AM
There is a version that does just that and it looks way better.
There is? I disagree though, that shot works because later on they cut back to Ash's head and it's the dummy head again, so it's like every time he gets deactivated he goes back to the dummy head.
Besides, you can't fool the audience with a reaction shot.
I'm sorry but that's nonsense. As someone whom does a lot of editing with fan edits, I can tell you that you more or less never want to cut from a shot of a person, straight to another shot of the same person, especially if you're trying to hide a switch from a dummy to a real person. That's editing 101. There are exceptions to the rule (for example, a frantic sequence of someone freaking out on drugs might work quite well with multiple quick cuts to different angles of the same person) but the Ash edit in
'Alien' is not one of these exceptions.
Quote from: Scorpio on Apr 22, 2017, 02:47:33 AM
It is, and Ridley Scott knew that and he couldn't trick the audience so he made it part of the narrative.
Of course you can fool the audience. That's a large part of what editing entails. You wouldn't cut to one of the characters looking shocked or anything. You'd just cut to them standing there and watching (maybe just looking around the room nervously).
Quote from: St_Eddie on Apr 22, 2017, 10:05:04 AM
Quote from: Scorpio on Apr 22, 2017, 02:29:22 AM
Quote from: SM on Apr 22, 2017, 02:24:53 AM
There is a version that does just that and it looks way better.
There is? I disagree though, that shot works because later on they cut back to Ash's head and it's the dummy head again, so it's like every time he gets deactivated he goes back to the dummy head.
Besides, you can't fool the audience with a reaction shot.
I'm sorry but that's nonsense. As someone whom does a lot of editing with fan edits, I can tell you that you more or less never want to cut from a shot of a person, straight to another shot of the same person, especially if you're trying to hide a switch from a dummy to a real person. That's editing 101. There are exceptions to the rule (for example, a frantic sequence of someone freaking out on drugs might work quite well with multiple quick cuts to different angles of the same person) but the Ash edit in 'Alien' is not one of these exceptions.
Quote from: Scorpio on Apr 22, 2017, 02:47:33 AM
It is, and Ridley Scott knew that and he couldn't trick the audience so he made it part of the narrative.
Of course you can fool the audience. That's a large part of what editing entails. You wouldn't cut to one of the characters looking shocked or anything. You'd just cut to them standing there and watching (maybe just looking around the room nervously).
That's actually very cliche editing technique (even in the 70s) just to hide bad effects. Alien is gritty and real. If they tried to hide it via editing it would look cheesy. Just watch any b movie from the 50s. But the point of Alien is that it's not a b-movie, so they can't cut away to hide a bad effect.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 22, 2017, 08:37:27 AM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 22, 2017, 01:37:29 AM
Then who's in the Derelict pilot's chair?
One of millions of Engineers who died millennia ago, just like the ones on LV-223. That was my takeaway from Prometheus - that they'd been wiped out by their own plague aeons ago and that what had happened on 223 was representative of what had happened with the jockey on LV-426. The story in the film followed the same details as what Scott had been saying about the jockey for decades, that it was carrying a ship full of bioweapons that got out of control and died long ago. This has always been the story and Scott's never seemed keen on f**king with it, including in Prometheus - until maybe right now.
Making up some entirely new story for what became of the jockey on LV-426 seems pointless and silly to me given that well-established framework. As does potentially sealing someone in there (or seeding the ship) only 20 years before Alien. I find that incredibly dumb.
Yeah I agree that it would be dumb to go down that route. Ironically the same sort of scenario was what I dreaded would happen in Prometheus after I first saw the trailer with the falling Juggernaut. I assumed that it must be the Derelict and not just a similar ship.
Quote from: Scorpio on Apr 22, 2017, 10:15:31 AM
That's actually very cliche editing technique (even in the 70s) just to hide bad effects. Alien is gritty and real. If they tried to hide it via editing it would look cheesy. Just watch any b movie from the 50s. But the point of Alien is that it's not a b-movie, so they can't cut away to hide a bad effect.
How "gritty and real" is it to blatantly switch from a dummy head to a real one, without even attempting to disguise the switch?! Just ask a magician about how important distraction is when performing a magic trick. Also, clichés usually exist for a very good reason.
I had a quick play around in my editing software to help illustrate my point...
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9l0_GoiZKB3QVdCbDFfUGVsV2c (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9l0_GoiZKB3QVdCbDFfUGVsV2c)
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 22, 2017, 08:37:27 AM
One of millions of Engineers who died millennia ago, just like the ones on LV-223.
But if David creates the Alien, the Engineer couldn't have died millenia ago with a cargo hold full of eggs. That's the question being raised: if David makes the Alien, who's in the chair?
If David makes the Alien, either there's still Engineers around, or someone else is in the pilot chair. If David
recreates the Alien, then the Engineers might be wiped out here and there's no problems.
QuoteMaking up some entirely new story for what became of the jockey on LV-426 seems pointless and silly to me given that well-established framework. As does potentially sealing someone in there (or seeding the ship) only 20 years before Alien. I find that incredibly dumb.
Likewise, but it looks like that's precisely where we're headed.
Those are NOT the Engineers.
The Engineers in Prometheus had big alien-ish eyes with large glowing Black Iris. And their skin was very translucent. That's the major prominent differentiation.
The men in jute clothing are a different race of Humans the Engineers created. They seem to be in an ancient roman civilization stage like that of Earth humans. Their skin colour is close to humans on Earth and not at all like the Engineers.
The Engineers in Prometheus decided to end all human race they ever created including on Earth and including those on the planet Covenant ship is visiting.
Its quite possible that David & Shaw boarded the ship which was programmed & destined for this planet. When they reached the planet, the ship automatically opened its doors and unleashed the Black goo while David just watched.
We've yet to see the *Space Jockey* you know what i'm talking about.. that 12 to 15ft monster lol...
My guess would be, David creates the eggs at some point and manages to create 100000+ of them? puts them on a very old ship (Derelict) where the pilot seat is massive (takes a 12ft/15ft Jockey and we finally see the SJ and david have a chat? lol and he orders him to earth (but en route) an egg is hatched and manages to get the Jockey. (Crash/emergency landing via LV_426
That's how i would see it go down after covenant maybe in awaking or whatever the 3rd movie will be called.
David created the xenomorphs as we know them, (they've been around a long time in bastard form or weak form) but he perfected them.
Perfect Organism
yay/nay? lol
Quote from: The_Foxcatcher on Apr 22, 2017, 11:52:54 AM
Its quite possible that David & Shaw boarded the ship which was programmed & destined for this planet. When they reached the planet, the ship automatically opened its doors and unleashed the Black goo while David just watched.
They set the course and leave for there at the end of Prometheus, it's not pre-programmed.
I find it funny that there are members here so prominently advocating they are 'in the know' because they say so?
whatever, really. get a grip and drop some arrogance.
"they're engineers".
-There is no way of knowing, so there is no way of saying it like it's fact.
"shaw is dead"
-again, nobody knows for sure.
"spoiler thread with leaks".
- GTFO, there are dozens of contradicting 'leaks', there is no way to be sure what is real and not, what has changed, whether it's trollmaterial, and so on.
"david creates them"
-again, assumptions, not facts.
Quote from: The_Foxcatcher on Apr 22, 2017, 11:52:54 AM
Those are NOT the Engineers.
The Engineers in Prometheus had big alien-ish eyes with large glowing Black Iris. And their skin was very translucent. That's the major prominent differentiation.
The men in jute clothing are a different race of Humans the Engineers created. They seem to be in an ancient roman civilization stage like that of Earth humans. Their skin colour is close to humans on Earth and not at all like the Engineers.
The Engineers in Prometheus decided to end all human race they ever created including on Earth and including those on the planet Covenant ship is visiting.
Its quite possible that David & Shaw boarded the ship which was programmed & destined for this planet. When they reached the planet, the ship automatically opened its doors and unleashed the Black goo while David just watched.
But i think there was already official information that this is Engineers homeworld?
And those white people look same like Engineers from that deleted scene in Prometheus,people with robes also changing the eye colour could be just for aesthetics,and its not "roman civilization stage" because you can see in those Empire pictures that there is HUGE mechanical construction that looks like sting of the scoripion.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 22, 2017, 11:24:02 AM
But if David creates the Alien, the Engineer couldn't have died millenia ago with a cargo hold full of eggs. That's the question being raised: if David makes the Alien, who's in the chair?
Oh, we misunderstood each other; I was actually talking about who was in the chair if David
didn't do it.
But since you asked the other question, I think the same answer is actually possible for both instances. Based on what Scott is now gabbing about in the press I'd suspect David doesn't just create/remake the alien, he also fabricates the eggs which end up in the hold on the derelict. He goes to LV-426 and puts them there or works on the existing material on-site. The jockey does not necessarily have to be relevant to that. It's entirely possible he can simply find a dead Engineer onboard that ship in the chair - as in, the jockey - just like the
Prometheus expedition found the dead Engineers on 223.
That being said, yes, I'm now fearing Scott won't just have David perfect the alien, he'll have someone (like maybe even David himself, as some sort of ironic fate) in the suit, in the chair, as the jockey. Doesn't matter who at the moment. I don't like the idea but I think it's very possible this will happen in future. Personally I'd prefer they not touch it.
Quote from: cliffhanger on Apr 22, 2017, 12:32:50 PM
-There is no way of knowing, so there is no way of saying it like it's fact.
The production crew and multiple preview audiences have told you it is Engineers. This is the opposite of 'no way of knowing.' You don't want to believe it because you don't like what you hear. That's not anyone's fault.
Quote"shaw is dead"
-again, nobody knows for sure.
See above response re: previews.
Yeah, it's pretty clear these are engineers. I don't like it either, but it's the truth.
If they weren't engineers, we would've already known about it.
lol, some mentiones in articles that people wrote with their hands tied for not spoilering, and production crewmembers that likewise can't reveal spoilers and simply said understandable stuff.
keep concluding stuff from sources you can't do anything with.
and just fyi, i don't care if they are or are not engineers. i do have aproblem with stating assumptions - which can be very wrong - as fact.
like the persistant stubborn self-glorification acts to label the scorpionaut as a 'docking station', without end. i like what has been mentioned by another member. 'stop trying to make ......happen'. jeesh.
Quote from: cliffhanger on Apr 22, 2017, 12:57:50 PM
lol, some mentiones in articles that people wrote with their hands tied for not spoilering, and production crewmembers that likewise can't reveal spoilers and simply said understandable stuff.
They called them 'deadgineers', dude.
Quoteand just fyi, i don't care if they are or are not engineers. i do have aproblem with stating assumptions - which can be very wrong - as fact.
Was it you who assumed Shaw was a mutant/queen or being stabbed based on weird angles in that Home TV spot?
Quotelike the persistant stubborn self-glorification acts to label the scorpionaut as a 'docking station', without end.
Maybe people call it that because it looks and performs like a docking device. Not 'the one Engineer ship we will definitely see escaping so I am not deeply disappointed by this plot twist.'
No, i did not assume Shaw was mutaded or stabbed, on the contrary actually. so you're assuming and judging rather wrong there.
I don't care they call them deadgineers. doesnt prove anything.
'looks and performs'. David looks like a human but is an android.
The fact the film crew called them Engineers doesn't mean they're Engineers?
... a'ight.
Quote from: cliffhanger on Apr 22, 2017, 01:09:42 PM
I don't care they call them deadgineers. doesnt prove anything.
K
Frankly it's perfectly fine to expect some level of variation among the engineers owing to different environments and climates if they're a deep space traveling species, there seems to be some evidence of hierarchy to some degree as well given the statues and heads. Each citizen would have a role to play and I very much doubt that they'd all be involved with utilizing dangerous biology/tech, there'd all still be the same species however. As for what could potentially happen on 426 with David's shenanigans, I like the idea of David finding the derelict pretty much the same way Kane and co did obviously minus the eggs, I very much agree with speedy that Prometheus contextualised the fate of the derelict pilot, however given Scott's trajectory with coming into the "backend" of Alien then I just have no idea how they're going to approach it at this stage. I'm hoping they dive deep into Giger's works and cook up something insane, but yeah, I have no idea, I guess time will tell.
Quote from: Necronomicon II on Apr 22, 2017, 01:31:37 PM
Frankly it's perfectly fine to expect some level of variation among the engineers owing to different environments and climates if they're a deep space traveling species, there seems to be some evidence of hierarchy to some degree as well given the statues and heads.
Possible, yes. But I think the biggest reason for the change is simple and banal, as has been mentioned by others - budget. Easier to mock up a bunch of heads in a crowd scene with less overt makeup.
QuoteAs for what could potentially happen on 426 with David's shenanigans, I like the idea of David finding the derelict pretty much the same way Kane and co did obviously minus the eggs, I very much agree with speedy that Prometheus contextualised the fate of the derelict pilot, however given Scott's trajectory with coming into the "backend" of Alien then I just have no idea how they're going to approach it at this stage.
I just feel that Scott now views this new 'trilogy' (or whatever it ends up being) as David's story - his narrative, his journey. And I can understand that; David as played by Fassbender is a fascinating character gifted with a magnetic actor. Scott is clearly infatuated with David. But I don't feel that means it has to be David's journey through the immediate past of
Alien in which he suddenly becomes the change agent that puts the entire franchise into motion. I think that's silly and diminishes the original film. I also find what they are apparently doing with David to be severely reducing his complexity to that of another black had mad scientist.
I don't like the idea of David creating the alien, or seeding the ship. I find the idea that those eggs only turned up 20 years prior to
Alien to be incredibly silly, just as I find the idea of an android only making the alien 20 years before to be silly. YMMV of course, but I wanted to explain why I feel Scott has taken this approach. I just find it so unneeded.
Yeah often it's the banal reason, then rationalized as something else; elaborate 'maybes', perhaps the elders select for the truly exceptional engineers to seed worlds, create beasties, etc, where everyone else is left toiling, creating monuments and engaging in libations. You know what they'll probably release some blu-ray extra with an engineer bible explicating their entire history, religion, etc, since it seems that David will be the focus from here on out. I'm hoping for some other 'big bad', but I won't hold my breath.
I know what I'd do (and how I'd fix any future David problem), but I'm keeping that in a drawer. I just wish they hadn't so wasted the opportunities of the ending of the previous film, in spite of its flaws. But I suspect this one will be considerably more popular with the public, and that's their interest.
JJ Abrams probably has something in his drawer too (shudder). ;D
Not really liking all this CGI.
They should never had shown the Backbuster derioudly this is a stupid decision by the marketing team. This could hae been such a good surprise in theater... but no.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 22, 2017, 01:14:39 PM
Quote from: cliffhanger on Apr 22, 2017, 01:09:42 PM
I don't care they call them deadgineers. doesnt prove anything.
K
i assume you've taken the time to check out fassbenders new quote matching the vase-dropping scene?
how much more proof do you want they're not engineers but humans.....
Heres another theory, engineers wanted to wipe out humanity,, they were becoming few in numbers, and with not enough engineers to control what they created they decide to destroy., why? Because we are hostile and there would be no way for them to defend themswlves if we came looking.. on the other hand im sure they tried to tweak the black goo into something they could benefit from. but it went wrong.. the infection turned bad killing off what was left of them 2,000 years ago. To use it on humanity would mean they could study it more after they see what it can do to us. Also destroying us could be to protect their work since they slowly dying out.
Quote from: Elder-wolf on Apr 23, 2017, 12:28:40 AM
Heres another theory, engineers wanted to wipe out humanity,, they were becoming few in numbers, and with not enough engineers to control what they created they decide to destroy., why? Because we are hostile and there would be no way for them to defend themswlves if we came looking.. on the other hand im sure they tried to tweak the black goo into something they could benefit from. but it went wrong.. the infection turned bad killing off what was left of them 2,000 years ago. To use it on humanity would mean they could study it more after they see what it can do to us. Also destroying us could be to protect their work since they slowly dying out.
Didn't Scott tie in the Engineers' plan to destroy humanity with specific events occurring on earth at that time or am I off base on that? I take it the result of that plan would be similar to what happens to the inhabitants of Paradise at the hand of David?
Quote from: rabidranger on Apr 23, 2017, 12:43:40 AM
Didn't Scott tie in the Engineers' plan to destroy humanity with specific events occurring on earth at that time or am I off base on that?
The crucifixion of Jesus, if you'd like.
Quote from: Predaker on Apr 23, 2017, 12:52:28 AM
Quote from: rabidranger on Apr 23, 2017, 12:43:40 AM
Didn't Scott tie in the Engineers' plan to destroy humanity with specific events occurring on earth at that time or am I off base on that?
The crucifixion of Jesus, if you'd like.
That's what I thought. Must have been an Engineer emissary!
Quote from: rabidranger on Apr 23, 2017, 12:53:38 AM
Quote from: Predaker on Apr 23, 2017, 12:52:28 AM
Quote from: rabidranger on Apr 23, 2017, 12:43:40 AM
Didn't Scott tie in the Engineers' plan to destroy humanity with specific events occurring on earth at that time or am I off base on that?
The crucifixion of Jesus, if you'd like.
That's what I thought. Must have been an Engineer emissary!
I remember something about Scott deciding against having it that explicit within the film but the implication is still there for those who'd like it.
Quote from: Predaker on Apr 23, 2017, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: rabidranger on Apr 23, 2017, 12:53:38 AM
Quote from: Predaker on Apr 23, 2017, 12:52:28 AM
Quote from: rabidranger on Apr 23, 2017, 12:43:40 AM
Didn't Scott tie in the Engineers' plan to destroy humanity with specific events occurring on earth at that time or am I off base on that?
The crucifixion of Jesus, if you'd like.
That's what I thought. Must have been an Engineer emissary!
I remember something about Scott deciding against having it that explicit within the film but the implication is still there for those who'd like it.
Dont forget this Jesus impersonator:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Filluminatiwatcher.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F10%2FIlluminatiWatcherDotCom-Prometheus8.jpg&hash=bbf302cd30b87dff310a72592425bea1761ef274)
Quote from: rabidranger on Apr 23, 2017, 12:53:38 AM
Quote from: Predaker on Apr 23, 2017, 12:52:28 AM
Quote from: rabidranger on Apr 23, 2017, 12:43:40 AM
Didn't Scott tie in the Engineers' plan to destroy humanity with specific events occurring on earth at that time or am I off base on that?
The crucifixion of Jesus, if you'd like.
That's what I thought. Must have been an Engineer emissary!
Jesus was Engineer? xD hmm so he probably looked like that:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FwmbfFej.jpg&hash=f0d49fd4d2625bcfe8ba69c354a034e823f55b44)
Jesus as an Engineer was an idea that was tossed around but ultimately discarded IIRC. There is a reference to the concept in the Spaihts draft of what became Prometheus but it's mentioned in kind of a joking, dismissive way.
Quote from: acidreign on Apr 23, 2017, 08:37:18 AM
Jesus as an Engineer was an idea that was tossed around but ultimately discarded IIRC. There is a reference to the concept in the Spaihts draft of what became Prometheus but it's mentioned in kind of a joking, dismissive way.
I suspect that Ridley Scott still considers 'Jesus was an Engineer' as being canonical because of the carbon dating reference in
'Prometheus' (
"2000 years old"); implying that it was humanity crucifying an Engineer embassy which pissed off the Engineers and made them want to wipe us out. However, he chose not to make it overt because and I quote,
"it was too on the nose". It's all very silly, in my opinion.
it really only complicated things more, without it making any sense whatsoever.
there is no way on earth 'Jesus' can be described as an 'engineer' in any way whatsoever, which would make it more the silly indeed.
interestingly though, 2000 years ago the Roman era was alive and kicking, and i can't but help feel it's rather coincidental that the 'enginumans' from the paradise planet live in a rather roman-like influenced civilization - even though there are quite the high-rise skyscrapers, too.
So is the black goo quantumly entangled with all the other black goo/xenos for the Engineer's bioweapon catastrophe to have happened simultaneously across the galaxy?
And yeah, space jesus still haunts us...
Unused for Prometheus, there were additional heads.
I wonder how they compare and if there are other examples of artistic concepts that did not make it. Curious if there will be more murals for instance, like in the vase room.
yeah i loved that artwork, really bummed it wasnt' used in the movie.
Non-watermarked versions -
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10003/restrictions-apply-ac-132-00367586.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10003/restrictions-apply-ac-002-00116416.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10003/restrictions-apply-ac-121-00359160.jpg)
Can't wait to see the fully grown Neo's on the big screen!