Egg on Sulaco

Started by Darkness, Nov 01, 2006, 08:21:10 AM

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Egg on Sulaco (Read 639,322 times)

stephen

stephen

#165
and that Bishop actually says that its a result of the crash.

SM

SM

#166
Thing is we don't see it particularly clearly.  Bishops dialogue clears this up however.

Politikon

Politikon

#167
Quote from: SM on Mar 17, 2010, 05:14:17 AM
Thing is we don't see it particularly clearly.  Bishops dialogue clears this up however.

It doesn't matter. The Company would have a field day with all this. It's not in keeping with the mythology of the films in anyway to assume that anyone back home has any intention of not ruining her. The company/ the military/ every single human she encounters is corrupt. Her exposure to the monster alone obviously puts her in danger. It's ony logical to assume they will ruin her to cover it up or expose her to endless questioning or even kill to shut them up.

Im sorry but I completely disagree that the human race does not pose a serious threat to the 3 survivors at the end of ALIENS. In fact, it would be incongruous if Part 3 started and they weren't in serious danger.

As a matter of fact, I don't even believe they were out of the water at the end of ALIENS enough to not further their own investigation.

I dunno where you guys are getting these ideals from regarding the ALIEN series, certainly not the same series I'm watching.

The Human race is depicted as being seriously amoral, exploitative and interested only in power, and personal gain.

I think ALIEN 3 was definitely right in it's assumption that Ripley had nothing to go back to.

SM

SM

#168
QuoteIt's not in keeping with the mythology of the films in anyway to assume that anyone back home has any intention of not ruining her.

How was she ruined the first time precisely?  Based on the evidence at hand, they revoked her flight status.  And then reinstated it shortly after when she agreed to go back.  If they were intent on ruining here they weren't terribly good at it.

QuoteThe company/ the military/ every single human she encounters is corrupt.

Eh?  I'll grant you Burke.  Ash had no choice.  But the Nostromo crew and all the marines were corrupt? You have watched these films right?

stephen

stephen

#169
I agree with SM.

The company as a whole didn't really know anything about the alien.  And as far as we know there were no more attempts since the Nostromo to when Ripley is picked up to get the Alien so I'm assuming that it was a small number of people that originally sent the nostromo there.

In Aliens, it was only Burke.  Burke was the one person that gave the colonists the coordinates.   For all intents and purposes Burke was seemingly acting alone.

Van Lewin (sp) and co didn't really come down all that hard on Ripley considering she freely admitted to detonating and thereby destroying an M class starfreighter.  With absolutely no other evidence to hand besides her testimony they really didn't do much to her.

BUT


Ulitmately its all irrelevant.  Even if you're right, do you really think that Ripley, Hicks and Newt would care less what the company did to them.  They just survived hell.

The important thing to consider about the ending to Aliens was that Ripley has now survived her nightmare and she can "dream" again.

Politikon

Politikon

#170
I disagree entirely. There is a constant underlying thread that the human race has lost it's morality.
Not when it concerns the lay-folk but apart from her crew members Ripley next to never encounters a friendly face.
I can't go any further with this conversation because this really boils down to interpretation and it's my persoanl opinion that a safe and happy human race is not evident in the ALIEN universe to the the extent that I think if we ever saw one it wouldn't fit with the series.

As for the Company, I'm not even gonna debate whether they are corrupt, it's silly. The films obviously want you to know they can't be trusted.

The only people worth shit in this universe are the downtrodden, thats the way its depicted. Even the humans we qet to know express things like racism/ apartheid towards the androids, and a money above all else policy.
The Company not believing Ripley is meant to mean, they don't care or dont want anyone to know. They are trying to bury the situation by making her the fall guy.

It's naive to think they just didn't trust her...

And as for do I really think they would care less....the answer is NO. I think they should have been concerned and anyway you started ALIEN 3 had to involve that concern and tell that story.

What would you have happen?

Would they lie and say nothing about the ALIEN? Because I don't know what universe you live in but do you think they could tell their story and not have serious life altering reactions?
How?

Like it should just jump to 3 years later and they are living happily ever after in the MId-west? No way. ALIENS clearly did not wrap up the story. It's ending is intended to imply more to come from whereevr.

Politikon

Politikon

#171
Could you imagine?
                                                            RIPLEY:
Oh about those Marines...turns out there WAS this race of Vicious Aliens and they wiped out that whole colony and all the Marines. We were exposed to them, but managed to escape by the skin of our teeth before that nuclear explosion,except for that one Queen that lays eggs, she followed us onto the Sulaco but we managed to blow her out of the air lock. But hey! As you can see it wasnt OUR Fault! Oh and btw, that Burke guy, he was up to no good and tried to imprenate me with one of those monsters.
Anyway, I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so. Well, I'm gonna get married to this Hicks guy since you guys believe me and don't need me for anything else, oh and I'm gonna adopt this orphaned little girl. Byeee!"

OpenMaw

OpenMaw

#172
Quote from: Politikon on Mar 18, 2010, 01:15:38 AM
Could you imagine?
                                                            RIPLEY:
Oh about those Marines...turns out there WAS this race of Vicious Aliens and they wiped out that whole colony and all the Marines. We were exposed to them, but managed to escape by the skin of our teeth before that nuclear explosion,except for that one Queen that lays eggs, she followed us onto the Sulaco but we managed to blow her out of the air lock. But hey! As you can see it wasnt OUR Fault! Oh and btw, that Burke guy, he was up to no good and tried to imprenate me with one of those monsters.
Anyway, I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so. Well, I'm gonna get married to this Hicks guy since you guys believe me and don't need me for anything else, oh and I'm gonna adopt this orphaned little girl. Byeee!"

No, but I could imagine Hicks, Ripley, Newt and Bishop all giving nearly the same exact account of events and this becoming a much bigger issue than simply getting the alien as a weapon.

SM

SM

#173
QuoteALIENS clearly did not wrap up the story. It's ending is intended to imply more to come from whereevr.

It wrapped up the story to that point.  Ripley had faced her demons and overcome them.  Obviously there was scope to go in any direction - which they did.  But Aliens was intended to be self contained and an end in and of itself.  The saga could've easily ended there.  No cliffhanger, no loose ends.

stephen

stephen

#174
In alien she saw no one BUT her crew members and the only one that was hostile was Ash and he was an android.

In Aliens she saw a nurse and would have seen doctors and she was working in the cargo bays running loaders etc and there was no indication that anything bad came from that.

At the inquest she stated her case and without any evidence to back up her story they didn't really come down all that hard on her considering 5 people were killed, an android destroyed an m class star freighter destroyed minus payload of course and all when she ADMITS that she was the one that blew it up.

Frankly I think she got off bloody lightly.

Your claims about the "downtrodden" is I think a complete an utter assumption on your part.  The only person that showed any ill feeling towards an android was Ripley (i'm not counting the later films as we're strictly discussing the Alien egg on sulaco situation) and explained by her experience with Ash - by the end of Aliens she trusts bishop.

The marines in aliens didn't give too hoots about money and certainly not above all else.

You're comments about the Company not believing RIpley and trying to make her the fall guy is I'm assuming you talking about the Inquest - I think it was very very clear in aliens that the company didn't know anything about the alien (at least those in the inquest) and that Burke was acting ALONE when he sent the coordinates and again when let the facehuggers loose on Ripley and Newt.  That I thought was extremely clear.

And of course they didn't trust Ripley, she'd blown up one of their ships.

Going further - Ripley wouldn't give a rats ass after all she'd been through as to whether or not the company were going to be doing anything to her when she got back.  Lets also not forget that now the military is involved so they would be coming into the whole thing as well not just the company.

Seriously, Ripley and co have literally just survived the worst thing they could possible have gone through, do you really think they would think about or care what is going to happen to them when they get back - I don't think they would give it a second thought.  Given that they now have evidence of what had happened and my statements above about the fact that the company didn't really know and it was only ever small groups in the company that did anything then I think they're pretty safe.

What would I have happen -  Wouldn't change a thing simple because I believe Cameron set up the ending perfectly.

He implied that the company knew nothing about the alien, knew nothing about the Nostromo's orders.  He showed that Burke was acting alone.  Ripley and Co can now be safe in that they now have evidence and no one is going to come down hard on them at all.

And like I said before, thats not the ending that Cameron needed to tell - the ending needed to show that Ripley has survived physically AND mentally from her ordeal.

I think the ending wrapped it up nicely.

Politikon

Politikon

#175
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 18, 2010, 01:20:10 AM
Quote from: Politikon on Mar 18, 2010, 01:15:38 AM
Could you imagine?
                                                            RIPLEY:
Oh about those Marines...turns out there WAS this race of Vicious Aliens and they wiped out that whole colony and all the Marines. We were exposed to them, but managed to escape by the skin of our teeth before that nuclear explosion,except for that one Queen that lays eggs, she followed us onto the Sulaco but we managed to blow her out of the air lock. But hey! As you can see it wasnt OUR Fault! Oh and btw, that Burke guy, he was up to no good and tried to imprenate me with one of those monsters.
Anyway, I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so. Well, I'm gonna get married to this Hicks guy since you guys believe me and don't need me for anything else, oh and I'm gonna adopt this orphaned little girl. Byeee!"

No, but I could imagine Hicks, Ripley, Newt and Bishop all giving nearly the same exact account of events and this becoming a much bigger issue than simply getting the alien as a weapon.

Right, so in other words, they are still in a heap of shit.

DamnBirds

DamnBirds

#176
One of the mainy reasons why Alien 3 doesn't make sense.  Alien / Aliens ... only two that exist in the franchise to me.  The rest is just crap.

stephen

stephen

#177
Quote from: Politikon on Mar 19, 2010, 08:04:37 PM
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 18, 2010, 01:20:10 AM
Quote from: Politikon on Mar 18, 2010, 01:15:38 AM
Could you imagine?
                                                            RIPLEY:
Oh about those Marines...turns out there WAS this race of Vicious Aliens and they wiped out that whole colony and all the Marines. We were exposed to them, but managed to escape by the skin of our teeth before that nuclear explosion,except for that one Queen that lays eggs, she followed us onto the Sulaco but we managed to blow her out of the air lock. But hey! As you can see it wasnt OUR Fault! Oh and btw, that Burke guy, he was up to no good and tried to imprenate me with one of those monsters.
Anyway, I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so. Well, I'm gonna get married to this Hicks guy since you guys believe me and don't need me for anything else, oh and I'm gonna adopt this orphaned little girl. Byeee!"

No, but I could imagine Hicks, Ripley, Newt and Bishop all giving nearly the same exact account of events and this becoming a much bigger issue than simply getting the alien as a weapon.

Right, so in other words, they are still in a heap of shit.

No have you been listening?

coolshow

coolshow

#178
How do you think the egg got on the Sulaco?

well if you ask me i think its up to the viewer to answer that one ?? For exmple where did the eggs come from that kane found in Alien ? Its all part of a plot The queen was angry when ripley burned her eggs so she left one in the sulaco

maledoro

maledoro

#179
Quote from: coolshow on Mar 22, 2010, 12:42:54 PM
well if you ask me i think its up to the viewer to answer that one ??
"??" So, you're not sure of your statement?

Quote from: coolshow on Mar 22, 2010, 12:42:54 PM
For exmple where did the eggs come from that kane found in Alien ? Its all part of a plot
The eggs are part of the plot, but depending on which version of Alien you go by, the origin of the eggs may or may not be part of the plot.

Quote from: coolshow on Mar 22, 2010, 12:42:54 PM
The queen was angry when ripley burned her eggs so she left one in the sulaco
It's very unlikely that at the time Ripley was burning the nest that the queen would know that Ripley would be hitching a ride on a ship. I agree with those who theorize that the queen was in the middle of passing an egg when Ripley came to visit.

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