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Archive => Archive => Alien Covenant Speculation => Topic started by: Corporal Hicks on Oct 21, 2016, 09:27:05 AM

Title: The Neomorphs
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Oct 21, 2016, 09:27:05 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07yt8fj

Interview with Fassie. No idea if Covvie comes up, haven't listened to yet.
Title: Re: The Neomorph?
Post by: Pvt. Himmel on Oct 21, 2016, 10:13:22 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 21, 2016, 09:27:05 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07yt8fj

Interview with Fassie. No idea is Covvie comes up, haven't listened to yet.

At the 0:5:42 mark.
Michael says that Scott has taken the horror elements of the first Alien film and merged it with the scale of Prometheus... nothing revealing. 8)
Title: Re: The Neomorph?
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Oct 21, 2016, 10:18:14 AM
The full interview seems to be around the 02:24:00 mark. At about 02:25:50 Fassbender slips out a new term that I know was bandied about on Covenant - Neomorph.
Title: Re: The Neomorph?
Post by: Pvt. Himmel on Oct 21, 2016, 10:24:25 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 21, 2016, 10:18:14 AM
The full interview seems to be around the 02:24:00 mark. At about 02:25:50 Fassbender slips out a new term that I know was bandied about on Covenant - Neomorph.

Interesting. 8)
Title: Re: The Neomorph?
Post by: BonesawT101 on Oct 21, 2016, 11:17:19 AM
Neomorph? What could it mean... ???
Title: Re: The Neomorph?
Post by: whiterabbit on Oct 21, 2016, 12:40:47 PM
Well off the bat I assumed neo means new but then again the term essentially means mutant. So... it means nothing.  :-\
Title: Re: The Neomorph?
Post by: BonesawT101 on Oct 21, 2016, 12:58:27 PM
Perhaps instead of the XENO term (which I am personally not a fan of) we have the Neomorph, essentially the new alien  ???
Title: Re: The Neomorph?
Post by: lv_226 on Oct 21, 2016, 02:51:45 PM
It could also be that he isn't as well versed in Alien-lore and decidedly called it a neomorph instead of xenomorph?
Title: Re: The Neomorph?
Post by: 426Buddy on Oct 21, 2016, 03:05:39 PM
Neomorph  :laugh:

Spoiler
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/e0/be/d4/e0bed4df581ea0c651361dbbf6e97c4d.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: The Neomorph?
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Oct 21, 2016, 03:22:13 PM
Quote from: lv_226 on Oct 21, 2016, 02:51:45 PM
It could also be that he isn't as well versed in Alien-lore and decidedly called it a neomorph instead of xenomorph?

Nah. It was deliberate. Like I said, I know that name was used during production.

Quote from: BonesawT101 on Oct 21, 2016, 12:58:27 PM
Perhaps instead of the XENO term (which I am personally not a fan of) we have the Neomorph, essentially the new alien  ???

It's quite likely. When they were working on Prometheus, they called the Jockey-Burster the Ultramorph. Seems quite likely that neomorph is another new design. Literally says new in the name. lol
Title: Re: The Neomorph?
Post by: lv_226 on Oct 21, 2016, 04:27:29 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 21, 2016, 03:22:13 PM
Quote from: lv_226 on Oct 21, 2016, 02:51:45 PM
It could also be that he isn't as well versed in Alien-lore and decidedly called it a neomorph instead of xenomorph?

Nah. It was deliberate. Like I said, I know that name was used during production.

Quote from: BonesawT101 on Oct 21, 2016, 12:58:27 PM
Perhaps instead of the XENO term (which I am personally not a fan of) we have the Neomorph, essentially the new alien  ???

It's quite likely. When they were working on Prometheus, they called the Jockey-Burster the Ultramorph. Seems quite likely that neomorph is another new design. Literally says new in the name. lol

Well, if that's the case then I hope the new design is actually the Alien design from the Covenant clapboard:

(https://media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/3036983-poster-p-2-hr-gigers-original-design-to-do-list-for-alien-was-awesomely-weird.jpg)
Title: Re: The Neomorph?
Post by: whiterabbit on Oct 21, 2016, 08:26:15 PM
It's keanu reeves in Alien meets the Matrix. Basically neo is face hugged and births the neomorph.  :laugh:
Title: Re: The Neomorph?
Post by: BonesawT101 on Oct 22, 2016, 12:06:03 PM
For some reason I can't play the interview. What way does he use the term 'neomorph'? 
Title: Re: The Neomorph?
Post by: Scorpio on Oct 22, 2016, 12:14:58 PM
Quote from: lv_226 on Oct 21, 2016, 04:27:29 PM

(https://media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/3036983-poster-p-2-hr-gigers-original-design-to-do-list-for-alien-was-awesomely-weird.jpg)

Anyone else think this design is much creepier than what we got in the film?  This is what the alien is based from.  Wishful thinking but I hope this is the neomorph.
Title: Re: The Neomorph?
Post by: Kurai on Oct 22, 2016, 01:30:21 PM
Neo-Morph... New Form, New Shape...

Perhaps David is going to pull an Elden? Become a Black Goo Synth?
Title: Re: The Neomorph?
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Oct 22, 2016, 02:51:50 PM
Quote from: BonesawT101 on Oct 22, 2016, 12:06:03 PM
For some reason I can't play the interview. What way does he use the term 'neomorph'?

Just when he's talking about the Alien, a slip of the tongue in how he references it. If I didn't know about them using the name on Covenant, I might not have paid it as much heed.
Title: Re: The Neomorph?
Post by: acrediblesource on Oct 22, 2016, 03:12:05 PM
Some brains on Fassbender. Its an actual scientific term:
Medical Definition of neomorph. 1: a structure that is not derived from a similar structure in an ancestor. 2: a mutant gene having a function distinct from that of any nonmutant gene of the same locus.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 22, 2016, 02:51:50 PM
Quote from: BonesawT101 on Oct 22, 2016, 12:06:03 PM
For some reason I can't play the interview. What way does he use the term 'neomorph'?

Just when he's talking about the Alien, a slip of the tongue in how he references it. If I didn't know about them using the name on Covenant, I might not have paid it as much heed.
Title: Re: The Neomorph?
Post by: BonesawT101 on Oct 22, 2016, 04:34:14 PM
Hicks, any way you could possibly elaborate how you know the term was used on the set of Covenant? Was it simply used to describe the alien in the new film?
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Oct 22, 2016, 05:08:25 PM
I'm just about to watch a film at the cinema, I'll have some juicy details for you in a bit. Give me 2 hours.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: BonesawT101 on Oct 22, 2016, 06:16:03 PM
Enjoy mate! Lookin' forward to it!  8)
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Oct 22, 2016, 08:01:15 PM
Rightio, sorry, but I'm going to have to make you wait until Monday for various reasons. But you'll get it. Promise.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: BonesawT101 on Oct 22, 2016, 08:23:50 PM
No probs man, I'm sure it'll be worth the wait! Off topic, what movie did you see?
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: T Dog on Oct 22, 2016, 10:57:23 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 22, 2016, 08:01:15 PM
Rightio, sorry, but I'm going to have to make you wait until Monday for various reasons. But you'll get it. Promise.
Tease!
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: whiterabbit on Oct 23, 2016, 12:28:39 AM
Well from the sound of neomorph, I think this confirms that they'll be at least two types of alien in covenant.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Infected on Oct 23, 2016, 12:18:11 PM
Neomorph: 1. (Anatomy) an anatomical feature not derived from a feature found in an ancestor, but instead a new development
2. (Genetics) genetics a mutant gene with a different function from its non-mutant equivalent

Sounds like a psycho in a new alien suit.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Pvt. Himmel on Oct 23, 2016, 04:02:43 PM
Quote from: T Dog on Oct 22, 2016, 10:57:23 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 22, 2016, 08:01:15 PM
Rightio, sorry, but I'm going to have to make you wait until Monday for various reasons. But you'll get it. Promise.
Tease!

He does it so well. :laugh:
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: CainsSon on Oct 23, 2016, 05:36:07 PM
Quote from: Infected on Oct 23, 2016, 12:18:11 PM
Neomorph: 1. (Anatomy) an anatomical feature not derived from a feature found in an ancestor, but instead a new development
2. (Genetics) genetics a mutant gene with a different function from its non-mutant equivalent

Sounds like a psycho in a new alien suit.

So my guess is the Neomorph is what the Engineers had planned for our 'evolution.'
Title: Re: The Neomorph?
Post by: Xenomorphine on Oct 23, 2016, 11:37:15 PM
Quote from: acrediblesource on Oct 22, 2016, 03:12:05 PM
Some brains on Fassbender. Its an actual scientific term:

I doubt he came up with it. It's probably just the descriptive term he's read from the script.

As was mentioned, 'Prometheus' had some concept art for an 'ultramorph', which was basically just a derivative term of 'xenomorph' (which, in itself, was only ever intended to be generic, not specific to the species).

So, basically, they've come up with something which is meant to be a slight (yet recognisable) spin on the Alien design we all know about.

Which was what the old 'Engineers' script was originally going to feature, don't forget...
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Wobblyboddle77 on Oct 24, 2016, 01:19:17 AM
i hope we get to see more of the engineers interacting with humans during this film and its not through flashbacks or hologram recordings.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Oct 24, 2016, 07:22:12 AM
Here you go, fellas. Introducing the Neomorphs! Beware story spoilers.

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/2016/10/24/neomorphs-alien-covenants-new-aliens/
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Look into my eye on Oct 24, 2016, 07:40:17 AM
Whoa! Some nice info there Hicks, thanks for that. It's sounding very promising indeed! I really hope the design is not too dissimilar to that pic. from Prometheus. Great stuff!
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Master on Oct 24, 2016, 08:04:52 AM
Your the man Corporal! Absolutely bad ass! Thx for heads up.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: SuicideDoors on Oct 24, 2016, 08:12:56 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 24, 2016, 07:22:12 AM
Here you go, fellas. Introducing the Neomorphs! Beware story spoilers.

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/2016/10/24/neomorphs-alien-covenants-new-aliens/

Aside from the teases we've had on the Crew tee shirts, have you had any further info on whether the traditional Aliens will return? Nice info on the Neomorphs though, particularly excited by the jungle setting
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Morose on Oct 24, 2016, 08:14:31 AM
It's interesting. Kinda reminded me of that b movie Alien 2. I do care about the creatures, however first priority is characters, character development, and following up on the whole engineer theory.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Oct 24, 2016, 08:17:58 AM
Quote from: SuicideDoors on Oct 24, 2016, 08:12:56 AM
Aside from the teases we've had on the Crew tee shirts, have you had any further info on whether the traditional Aliens will return?

They are returning. We know that for sure. Further details I can't share as of yet.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: whiterabbit on Oct 24, 2016, 09:13:07 AM
Hey, so Ridley is once again using the unused concepts from alien and even dipping into the Prometheus bag. After all these years we're going to get to see the spore breed aliens. I'm kind of sad that none of the creatures from Prometheus are going to make an appearance though. However now I'm starting to wonder just how connected the different aliens are.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: The Bonus Situation on Oct 24, 2016, 09:32:52 AM
As much as I'm excited for the film, I'm also a bit worried actually. I mean I hope they don't completely abandon the 'queen lays the egg, face hugger finds a host, chestburster comes out of the chest' concept with this black goo stuff in  the future installments.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Saggit on Oct 24, 2016, 09:34:08 AM
This is terrible! I mean the creature is terrible. And not in a good way. I want our regular xenomorph, not some albino. Ridley Scott please stop toying around. Prometheus was enough! Just make a good Alien movie like you did in 1979...
All this black goo, zombies and giant octopus bullsh...OH! And that "Alien" in the end. You can probably bash it to death with a broom stick. We have a saying in Poland:" Better is an enemy of good". I have such a love/hate attitude towards this movie...
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: whiterabbit on Oct 24, 2016, 09:41:01 AM
Well Ridley did say you'll see everything from Big Chap but he never actually mentioned the facehugger part. Maybe Ridley is going to move away from the Cameron Canon and go into his own somewhat retroactive direction.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Pvt. Himmel on Oct 24, 2016, 10:05:12 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 24, 2016, 07:22:12 AM
Here you go, fellas. Introducing the Neomorphs! Beware story spoilers.

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/2016/10/24/neomorphs-alien-covenants-new-aliens/

Niice, oh and Corporal....(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.planetsmilies.com%2Fsmilies%2Flove%2Flove0085.gif&hash=be015d8a1e5cce6a6781ddf0346c6c2febd738d1)
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: whiterabbit on Oct 24, 2016, 10:08:38 AM
I've gotta be honest; that was a lot of information to give away. You sure it's all real. :P
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Oct 24, 2016, 10:13:25 AM
I'm sure. ;) Fear not. You know I wouldn't front page anything if I wasn't confident in its authenticity.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: SuicideDoors on Oct 24, 2016, 10:15:22 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 24, 2016, 08:17:58 AM
Quote from: SuicideDoors on Oct 24, 2016, 08:12:56 AM
Aside from the teases we've had on the Crew tee shirts, have you had any further info on whether the traditional Aliens will return?

They are returning. We know that for sure. Further details I can't share as of yet.

That's all I need to know!
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Stolen on Oct 24, 2016, 11:13:50 AM
Too many revelations!
I do not know what to think of this.
The description of the bursting of body appears to be an absolute horror


Quote from: whiterabbit on Oct 24, 2016, 09:41:01 AM
Well Ridley did say you'll see everything from Big Chap but he never actually mentioned the facehugger part. Maybe Ridley is going to move away from the Cameron Canon and go into his own somewhat retroactive direction.

The Facehugger was present on the set. I think we will be entitled to the traditional cycle of Alien (egg, facehugger, chest, big chap) and the new (Ampoule, Black Goo ..., Neomorph)
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Sabres21768 on Oct 24, 2016, 11:29:47 AM
Hicks...you are the man!

Can't wait to see the Neomorphs in action.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: motherfather on Oct 24, 2016, 12:06:56 PM
Im also not quite sure what to make of it. Im open to new ideas. It sounds like an organic version of the molten metal Terminator 2.

Design wise it sounds like they took inspiration from Prometheus and the Engineer ship's control panel that has those pale oval squidgy buttons that squeak when touched.

I'm a bit sad they seem to be moving towards bio-evolution and away from bio-mechanical and Giger-esque creations. Perhaps the most worrying though, is that, yet again, we seem to have to put up with aliens that may ultimately have a human, bipedal, silhouette.

Anyway, this could be either really good and a breath of fresh (spore-y) air a la X files Firewalker episode. Or really bad in The Blob starring Steve Mcqueen sort of way. I think I'll have to see the movie to know either way.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: 426Buddy on Oct 24, 2016, 12:32:21 PM
Sounds really cool, interesting cousin to the creature we already know. Sounds like a bloody good time.

I do still hope to see big chap in the film too though.

Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Infected on Oct 24, 2016, 12:57:13 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi64.tinypic.com%2F1415e1t.jpg&hash=2b5e8354058692830e5a72b0171f5b944d07fb8f)


the alien version of a tall psycho murderer.


Quote from: Saggit on Oct 24, 2016, 09:34:08 AM
This is terrible! I mean the creature is terrible. And not in a good way. I want our regular xenomorph, not some albino. Ridley Scott please stop toying around. Prometheus was enough! Just make a good Alien movie like you did in 1979...
All this black goo, zombies and giant octopus bullsh...OH! And that "Alien" in the end. You can probably bash it to death with a broom stick. We have a saying in Poland:" Better is an enemy of good". I have such a love/hate attitude towards this movie...
The normal xeno isnt scary anymore, its just cannon fodder.
Having a tall slim psycho looking xeno wich is far superior in everything and having the mind of ten smart Einsteins all based on how to kill you off as nasty as possible, and being as fast as a cheetah, this thing coming after you in a ship or jungle, you cant even outrun them it doesnt even hide in small vents, it just comes at you for one thing and when he lunges at you, those long nasty white strong fingers go through your eyebals like a hot knife throug a small newborn baby. (was that over the top? i never can tell ;)
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Glaive on Oct 24, 2016, 01:25:20 PM
No Ultramorph then...?
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Vrastal on Oct 24, 2016, 01:29:25 PM
Its interesting, so we return to lv223 it looks like or we see a seperate planet with an accident. I just hope that the queen version isnt entirely abandoned. I do like the animal/ evolution style thing, ive always liked the idea that rhe aliens are a naturally occurring monster
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Oct 24, 2016, 01:31:24 PM
Quote from: Glaive on Oct 24, 2016, 01:25:20 PM
No Ultramorph then...?

No Ultramorph or Deacon. Just the Neomorphs and the traditional Aliens.

Quote from: Nazrel on Oct 24, 2016, 01:29:25 PM
Its interesting, so we return to lv223 it looks like or we see a seperate planet with an accident. I just hope that the queen version isnt entirely abandoned. I do like the animal/ evolution style thing, ive always liked the idea that rhe aliens are a naturally occurring monster

There's no going back to LV223, all takes place on the one planet.


Quote from: Sabres21768 on Oct 24, 2016, 11:29:47 AM
Hicks...you are the man!

This one was a team effort.  :)
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: XENOMORPHOSIS on Oct 24, 2016, 02:09:01 PM
Much as I'm curious to see how the Neomorphs and classic Xeno's comeback fair I must admit it somewhat made Prometheus's final scene of the Deacon pointless in retrospect. Not to be accusing the creative team for not holding a strong foundation for exploring the Xeno's origin but it seems like they're just making it up as they go along.

The fact that John Spaits writer of the Alien Engineers script and Damon Lindeloff writer of Paradise/Prometheus are not involved suggests their conceptual idea of the Xenomorph's lineage wasn't worth expanding upon, what was portrayed with the Trilobyte/ Deacon birthed from an engineer has completely been rendered irrelevant to the traditional Xenomorph's evolution.


Oh by the way upon seeing the name Neomorph did any mistook it to have a Matrix vide ??? Whoa
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: TheBATMAN on Oct 24, 2016, 02:17:47 PM
Not sure what to make of back burster. It sounds like they are just changing it for the sake of changing it. I can't see it having any more impact than the chestburster, probably even less so actually because it moves further away from the traditional form of giving birth (in a sense of course) and that fear of foreign invasion and pregnancy.

Perhaps the writers have been playing Resident Evil 4. Las Plagas spreads in spore form, takes over the host and then eventually bursts from the neck stump

Honestly, I can take or leave a neomorph. I'm much more interested to see Ridley Scott's interpretation of how the original Giger creature should look 37 years on. I hope they are not just reduced to canon fodder cameos like in Spaight's original drafts.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: lv_226 on Oct 24, 2016, 02:43:23 PM
Boy, I don't know what to make of this. In some of the BTS pics you can clearly see that the movie takes place in a nature-like setting:

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/200516_07.jpg)

It seems as if the extend universe material featured in Fire and Stone, and newer series, really is the direction Fox is going with Covenant (for better or worse). I agree with TheBATMAN, bursting through the back? I don't know what to feel about that.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: itshouldneverhavebeenabug on Oct 24, 2016, 02:54:50 PM
These details sound great Hicks! Are we 100% on them? Only criticism is that with all these uses of the word morph I can't stop thinking of that little clay man!
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Xenomorphine on Oct 24, 2016, 03:20:51 PM
So, basically, they rewatched the old 'Firewalker' episode of 'The X-Files' and decided to shunt it into this. :) It's really not original.

What's interesting is that it essentially vindicates my original prediction: The next film-maker can do whatever they please and Fox's earlier declarations regarding canon status really do mean nothing. If true, these story details effectively retcon 'Fire And Stone' (and everything which came off of that) as no longer canonical.

If this is what happens with the black ooze, all those characters stranded on that world in the ecosystem from the new comics, should have all succumbed to this fate.

Hope they don't do literal interpretations of that albino whale concept art, though. Those things always looked as awkward and chunky as f**k to me. Definitely not as iconic without Giger's typical biomechanical detailing. Maybe if they added that sort of aethetic and made it look properly intimidating, instead of just a white slab of lard with teeth. Size, alone, was not what made the original classic design so intimidating or timeless.

Quote from: Infected on Oct 24, 2016, 12:57:13 PM
The normal xeno isnt scary anymore, its just cannon fodder.

'Alien Isolation' (and the two original films) prove that assumption completely wrong. It's all about presentation.

QuoteHaving a tall slim psycho looking xeno wich is far superior in everything and having the mind of ten smart Einsteins all based on how to kill you off as nasty as possible, and being as fast as a cheetah, this thing coming after you in a ship or jungle, you cant even outrun them it doesnt even hide in small vents, it just comes at you for one thing and when he lunges at you, those long nasty white strong fingers go through your eyebals like a hot knife throug a small newborn baby. (was that over the top? i never can tell ;)

But... That's practically what the normal Alien design already does.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: 426Buddy on Oct 24, 2016, 03:25:30 PM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 24, 2016, 03:20:51 PM
So, basically, they rewatched the old 'Firewalker' episode fo 'The X-Files' and decided to shunt it into this. :) It's really not original.

What's interesting is that it essentially vindicates my original prediction: The next film-maker can do whatever they please and Fox's earlier declarations regarding canon status really do mean nothing. If true, these story details effectively retcon 'Fire And Stone' (and everything which came off of that) as no longer canonical.

If this is what happens with the black ooze, all those characters stranded on that world in the ecosystem from the new comics, should have all succumbed to this fate.

Hope they don't do literal interpretations of that albino whale concept art, though. Those things always looked as awkward and chunky as f**k to me. Definitely not as iconic without Giger's typical biomechanical detailing. Maybe if they added that sort of aethetic and made it look properly intimidating, instead of just a white slab of lard with teeth. Size, alone, was not what made the original classic design so intimidating or timeless.

Quote from: Infected on Oct 24, 2016, 12:57:13 PM
The normal xeno isnt scary anymore, its just cannon fodder.

'Alien Isolation' (and the two original films) prove that assumption completely wrong. It's all about presentation.

QuoteHaving a tall slim psycho looking xeno wich is far superior in everything and having the mind of ten smart Einsteins all based on how to kill you off as nasty as possible, and being as fast as a cheetah, this thing coming after you in a ship or jungle, you cant even outrun them it doesnt even hide in small vents, it just comes at you for one thing and when he lunges at you, those long nasty white strong fingers go through your eyebals like a hot knife throug a small newborn baby. (was that over the top? i never can tell ;)

But... That's practically what the normal Alien design already does.

That's really assuming a lot based on the limited info we have.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: BonesawT101 on Oct 24, 2016, 03:33:32 PM
What an insight Hicks! Thanks very much for the scoop sounds great, I can't wait to see the neomorph in action, and also the original alien designs as well!
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Whiskeybrewer on Oct 24, 2016, 03:43:43 PM
If this all turns out to be true, would be intriguing to see how its pulled off on screen
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: motherfather on Oct 24, 2016, 03:53:39 PM
^ Yes. Love it or hate it, thanks very much for the news - its probably one of the most significant pieces of info we have so far.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: BonesawT101 on Oct 24, 2016, 03:56:32 PM
Sounds like it's going to be,in a sense, arguably what Prometheus should have been.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Nostromo on Oct 24, 2016, 04:03:39 PM
Excuse me, a what? Neomorph?


They look like the things that were coming out of Shin Godzilla's tail.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: lv_226 on Oct 24, 2016, 04:11:17 PM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 24, 2016, 03:20:51 PM
So, basically, they rewatched the old 'Firewalker' episode fo 'The X-Files' and decided to shunt it into this. :) It's really not original.

What's interesting is that it essentially vindicates my original prediction: The next film-maker can do whatever they please and Fox's earlier declarations regarding canon status really do mean nothing. If true, these story details effectively retcon 'Fire And Stone' (and everything which came off of that) as no longer canonical.

If this is what happens with the black ooze, all those characters stranded on that world in the ecosystem from the new comics, should have all succumbed to this fate.

Hope they don't do literal interpretations of that albino whale concept art, though. Those things always looked as awkward and chunky as f**k to me. Definitely not as iconic without Giger's typical biomechanical detailing. Maybe if they added that sort of aethetic and made it look properly intimidating, instead of just a white slab of lard with teeth. Size, alone, was not what made the original classic design so intimidating or timeless.

Quote from: Infected on Oct 24, 2016, 12:57:13 PM
The normal xeno isnt scary anymore, its just cannon fodder.

'Alien Isolation' (and the two original films) prove that assumption completely wrong. It's all about presentation.

QuoteHaving a tall slim psycho looking xeno wich is far superior in everything and having the mind of ten smart Einsteins all based on how to kill you off as nasty as possible, and being as fast as a cheetah, this thing coming after you in a ship or jungle, you cant even outrun them it doesnt even hide in small vents, it just comes at you for one thing and when he lunges at you, those long nasty white strong fingers go through your eyebals like a hot knife throug a small newborn baby. (was that over the top? i never can tell ;)

But... That's practically what the normal Alien design already does.

I think you are absolutely right here. The 'Firewalker' reference seems to be spot-on and it could fit with what has already been established about the accelerant—albeit through evolving its functions and still allowing it to remain outside the grasp of human understanding. I am not sold on the images of the albino Alien from the pre-Prometheus concept art,  I've never been a fan of its appearance. That being said, if the creatures coloration resembles that of the original Alien art style of Giger's then I will be a very, very happy fan...

(https://media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/3036983-poster-p-2-hr-gigers-original-design-to-do-list-for-alien-was-awesomely-weird.jpg)


Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 24, 2016, 07:22:12 AM
Here you go, fellas. Introducing the Neomorphs! Beware story spoilers.

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/2016/10/24/neomorphs-alien-covenants-new-aliens/

Thanks for the scoop Hicks. You seem to have a few sources on this, any way that you could confirm whether or not the film will involve a Giger-esque influence architecture/world-wise?
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Nostromo on Oct 24, 2016, 04:28:18 PM
I hope it looks Giger-esque or like the Ultramorph or a "blunt head dolphin-like and elongated". Creepy stuff. Very curious now, good job Hicks.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Chris P on Oct 24, 2016, 04:47:35 PM
This matches up almost 100% to this leak from November, 2015.  ;) (Back when it was Alien: Paradise Lost lol)

http://www.alien-covenant.com/news/exclusive---information-on-the-new-monsters-in-prometheus-2-alien-paradise-lost-leaked (http://www.alien-covenant.com/news/exclusive---information-on-the-new-monsters-in-prometheus-2-alien-paradise-lost-leaked)

Very exciting stuff! Although, how we get from Spore-filled pods to eggs and Facehuggers will be tricky to explain. I hope they do it intelligently.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Pvt. Himmel on Oct 24, 2016, 04:54:22 PM
Quote from: Chris P on Oct 24, 2016, 04:47:35 PM
This matches up almost 100% to this leak from November, 2015.  ;) (Back when it was Alien: Paradise Lost lol)

http://www.alien-covenant.com/news/exclusive---information-on-the-new-monsters-in-prometheus-2-alien-paradise-lost-leaked (http://www.alien-covenant.com/news/exclusive---information-on-the-new-monsters-in-prometheus-2-alien-paradise-lost-leaked)

Very exciting stuff! Although, how we get from Spore-filled pods to eggs and Facehuggers will be tricky to explain. I hope they do it intelligently.

Hey Chris Picard.  8)
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Nostromo on Oct 24, 2016, 04:54:36 PM
Who is this lady Michelle Johnston on this board, does she post here too? heh, she reminds me of the female version of SM, maybe it's his wife? She seems to know her sh!t too. They mention AVPGalaxy also in the link.

http://www.alien-covenant.com/news/name-description-the-new-aliens-alien-covenant-revealed-spoilers

Oct-24-2016 9:14 AM

I am sorry Chris if you listen to the interview Michael refers to the Kane chest buster uncertainly as a neomorph. You can tell he can not quite remember the word Xenomorph. That is the one reference to Alien Covenant amongst several films in the pipeline all this other detail has nothing to do with Michaels interview and whatever the source of all the other speculation it has nothing to do with Michaels interview which is the implication of the AVP entry. It may be right but it has been garnered elsewhere.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Oct 24, 2016, 04:55:50 PM
Quote from: Nostromo on Oct 24, 2016, 04:54:36 PM
They mention AVPGalaxy also in the link.

I should hope so. All the new specific information is what we have revealed!  :laugh:
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: The Eighth Passenger on Oct 24, 2016, 04:57:17 PM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 24, 2016, 03:20:51 PM
What's interesting is that it essentially vindicates my original prediction: The next film-maker can do whatever they please and Fox's earlier declarations regarding canon status really do mean nothing. If true, these story details effectively retcon 'Fire And Stone' (and everything which came off of that) as no longer canonical.

This has always been the case Xenomorphine, you know this. Film canon always overrides EU. And a good thing too, filmakers should never be restricted by whatever happened in video game X or comic book Y.

And the Alien franchise isn't the only one where we see this, the new Star Wars films effectively wiped-out decades of EU.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Samus007 on Oct 24, 2016, 04:59:04 PM
This is some pretty exciting stuff! I'm not sure what to think of the backbursting bit, but, i'll save judgement for after I see it in full context of the film.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Oct 24, 2016, 04:59:38 PM
Quote from: Nostromo on Oct 24, 2016, 04:54:36 PM
I am sorry Chris if you listen to the interview Michael refers to the Kane chest buster uncertainly as a neomorph. You can tell he can not quite remember the word Xenomorph. That is the one reference to Alien Covenant amongst several films in the pipeline all this other detail has nothing to do with Michaels interview and whatever the source of all the other speculation it has nothing to do with Michaels interview which is the implication of the AVP entry. It may be right but it has been garnered elsewhere.

Yeah, Fassbender reveals no details in the interview. Just a slip of the tongue referring to the original Alien as the Neomorph. Since I knew the new Alien design in Covenant was referred to as such behind the scenes, we took the opportunity to provide all these other specific details that we were aware of.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: CainsSon on Oct 24, 2016, 05:00:19 PM
What I like about this is that I keep get a fantasy/horror style from ALIEN COVENANT. I think the series could benefit greatly from this shake up in style and always praise this franchise for consistently trying new things.
What I don't like - is the concern that in making the Alien's life cycle more and more convoluted you risk watering down it's affect because it can just 'do anything' next.
I dont think this is a definite problem, so long as they work to make these things make concrete sense. The move toward these things becoming Xenomorphs needs to be very specific in the audiences mind.

Also, wasnt there a leaked image of what looked like an elaboration on the sexburster that depicted two giant mandibles ejecting from the character's back? I remember someone posting that recently.

Overall, I really like this. Im excited about the variation in the setting of the film and also think these Neomorphs could make this the horror film we all wanted in Prometheus.
Of course... the next question I have is: Do we get to see one burst from an Engineer? And what will that look like?
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: The Eighth Passenger on Oct 24, 2016, 05:03:51 PM
Quote from: CainsSon on Oct 24, 2016, 05:00:19 PM
Also, wasnt there a leaked image of what looked like an elaboration on the sexburster that depicted two giant mandibles ejecting from the character's back? I remember someone posting that recently.

You're probably thinking about an old Prometheus concept art painting:

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-Iq6GZzu9-cU%2FURerPPQXSeI%2FAAAAAAAAGSY%2Fq7_0r84Xo3A%2Fs1600%2Fprometheussexburster.jpg&hash=4e61d1f750f0460f3af8b8efdefcf64858890db3)

There has been no official leaked Covenant concept art as of this date.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: CainsSon on Oct 24, 2016, 05:13:39 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Oct 24, 2016, 05:03:51 PM
Quote from: CainsSon on Oct 24, 2016, 05:00:19 PM
Also, wasnt there a leaked image of what looked like an elaboration on the sexburster that depicted two giant mandibles ejecting from the character's back? I remember someone posting that recently.

You're probably thinking about an old Prometheus concept art painting:

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-Iq6GZzu9-cU%2FURerPPQXSeI%2FAAAAAAAAGSY%2Fq7_0r84Xo3A%2Fs1600%2Fprometheussexburster.jpg&hash=4e61d1f750f0460f3af8b8efdefcf64858890db3)

There has been no official leaked Covenant concept art as of this date.

There was a variation on this image recently, I remember thinking the source wasn't reliable and it wasnt being called a leak. Anyway, it basically was this image but the artwork was cruder and depicted more of it coming out of his back.  It could be cool if it happens during sex in the missionary position... But this is all jumping to conclusions.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Oct 24, 2016, 05:15:12 PM
I don't believe any sex is involved in the Neomorph burstings but I can't recall 100%.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Pvt. Himmel on Oct 24, 2016, 05:18:26 PM
This is the only credible site for info, and glad to be a member... Oh and the news is spreading like wildfire. 8)
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: The Eighth Passenger on Oct 24, 2016, 05:21:59 PM
Yeah, lets hope our squad leader is 100% certain about the source this time or this is going to become an incredible site.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Oct 24, 2016, 05:24:17 PM
Quote from: Himmelblau on Oct 24, 2016, 05:18:26 PM
This is the only credible site for info, and glad to be a member...

;) Thank you kindly, good sir.

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Oct 24, 2016, 05:21:59 PM
Yeah, lets hope our squad leader is 100% certain about the source this time or this is going to become an incredible site.

I am very certain. Verified through multiple sources. As of the current state of the film, this is accurate.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: BishopShouldGo on Oct 24, 2016, 05:37:36 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Oct 24, 2016, 04:57:17 PM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 24, 2016, 03:20:51 PM
What's interesting is that it essentially vindicates my original prediction: The next film-maker can do whatever they please and Fox's earlier declarations regarding canon status really do mean nothing. If true, these story details effectively retcon 'Fire And Stone' (and everything which came off of that) as no longer canonical.

This has always been the case Xenomorphine, you know this. Film canon always overrides EU. And a good thing too, filmakers should never be restricted by whatever happened in video game X or comic book Y.

And the Alien franchise isn't the only one where we see this, the new Star Wars films effectively wiped-out decades of EU.

Hear, hear.

And this all sounds very interesting. Seeing both a back and a throat bursting through the eyes of Ridley Scott will be really cool.

A nice complement to the classic facehuggers we will get.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Nostromo on Oct 24, 2016, 06:08:22 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 24, 2016, 05:15:12 PM
I don't believe any sex is involved in the Neomorph burstings but I can't recall 100%.
Olde asked me to ask you if that includes oral sex as well.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: itshouldneverhavebeenabug on Oct 24, 2016, 06:42:14 PM
Any idea when we might see a teaser trailer Hicks?
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Oct 24, 2016, 07:04:04 PM
Quote from: itshouldneverhavebeenabug on Oct 24, 2016, 06:42:14 PM
Any idea when we might see a teaser trailer Hicks?

I've no information, I'm afraid. Only a hunch at November/December/January time.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: HuDaFuK on Oct 24, 2016, 07:09:25 PM
The Beluga Alien lives!
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: The Alien Predator on Oct 24, 2016, 07:11:57 PM
The Neomorph sounds very interesting. I am becoming so hyped for this film lately. Thanks for the news, Hicks, I love how you manage to find all this stuff. I can't wait to see it on-screen. I was always interested in the Ultramorph/Beluga Alien, so this will be good to see. I bet some future comics will have them go against Predators which has me looking forward to those as well.

I can't wait to burst through this year already!
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: ep40 on Oct 24, 2016, 07:27:06 PM
Will classic Xenomorphs also appear? I have nothing against Neomorphs as such, but what matters, is how they will interact with classics if those will appear? I wouldn't want a repetition of Predator/Super Predator situation
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Sgt.Jackrus on Oct 24, 2016, 07:34:06 PM
Quote from: ep40 on Oct 24, 2016, 07:27:06 PM
Will classic Xenomorphs also appear? I have nothing against Neomorphs as such, but what matters, is how they will interact with classics if those will appear? I wouldn't want a repetition of Predator/Super Predator situation
Maybe they will be in movie when they showed the queen "art" for the movie
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Chris P on Oct 24, 2016, 07:37:31 PM
Quote from: Himmelblau on Oct 24, 2016, 04:54:22 PM
Quote from: Chris P on Oct 24, 2016, 04:47:35 PM
This matches up almost 100% to this leak from November, 2015.  ;) (Back when it was Alien: Paradise Lost lol)

http://www.alien-covenant.com/news/exclusive---information-on-the-new-monsters-in-prometheus-2-alien-paradise-lost-leaked (http://www.alien-covenant.com/news/exclusive---information-on-the-new-monsters-in-prometheus-2-alien-paradise-lost-leaked)

Very exciting stuff! Although, how we get from Spore-filled pods to eggs and Facehuggers will be tricky to explain. I hope they do it intelligently.

Hey Chris Picard.  8)

Hey there!  8)

Quote from: HimmelblauThis is the only credible site for info, and glad to be a member... Oh and the news is spreading like wildfire. 8)

I wouldn't say the "only" one haha at Scified / Prometheus2-Movie.com (which is now Alien-Covenant.com) we've provided a plethora of early leaks and scoops over a year ago for Covenant. Not many ran with it because it was so early on in production. But now, with Fassbender's slip, more outlets are running with it and referencing scoops we already broke.

I will agree however, there are MANY sites out there who spew pretty poor info on Covenant. Niche sites like Scified and AvPG are good sources to keep close eyes on for sure.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Oct 24, 2016, 07:39:50 PM
Quote from: ep40 on Oct 24, 2016, 07:27:06 PM
Will classic Xenomorphs also appear?

Yeah, they will. Ridley mentioned that it'd have old and new Aliens last year, I think.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Valaquen on Oct 24, 2016, 08:13:54 PM
Great scoop, Hicks. I'm glad the Beluga Alien may be getting another shot at appearing on screen, because I really loved those designs.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Nostromo on Oct 24, 2016, 08:31:05 PM
Love that Beluga alien as well. Not sure how the new throat and back bursters scenes will look though.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: The Alien Predator on Oct 24, 2016, 08:32:34 PM
I look forward to seeing both, old and new Aliens!

Quote from: Nostromo on Oct 24, 2016, 08:31:05 PM
Love that Beluga alien as well. Not sure how the new throat and back bursters scenes will look though.

Same, but I can't wait to find out!
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: CainsSon on Oct 24, 2016, 08:45:32 PM
This got me thinking - If these spores are breathed-in, then that could play into the Pilot suit with it's elephantine, respirator-tube.

Whats also interesting is that now, it would seem that where the crew of the Covenant crashes is on some planet, where the Engineers tried to Engineer life, and perhaps, this time they used a slightly different variant from the Goo that made us. The result being this lush 'Paradise' where life begins, somewhat DIFFERENTLY.

The other possibility, based on some of the leaked set photos, is that Paradise was over-run with the Goo, in an attempt to 'Evolve' the Engineers and it wiped them out before spawning THIS STUFF.

Maybe their gods tried to evolve them?

This whole mythology just got even BIGGER than it did in PROMETHEUS. Anyone else seeing that?
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: whiterabbit on Oct 24, 2016, 08:58:14 PM
You know, this does open up the of possibilities of humans releasing the alien or working with the engineers against a greater foe. Both of which would be stupid. I mean just how is the Alien with a capital A going to be introduced...
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: oduodu on Oct 24, 2016, 09:00:58 PM
Corporal you mentioned the Gibson script that had airborne spores. Do I remember correctly that it was a queen that released those spores? Was the spores released form a pod on her tail? And I remember that those infected by it basically changed very suddenly. I mean just of the bat that is what remember more or less.

As for the trees having been infected by goo and carrying pods it seems that it is as Xenomorphine says not really a continuation of canon as it is a complete turn around of the original idea.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Infected on Oct 24, 2016, 09:04:04 PM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 24, 2016, 03:20:51 PM
So, basically, they rewatched the old 'Firewalker' episode fo 'The X-Files' and decided to shunt it into this. :) It's really not original.

What's interesting is that it essentially vindicates my original prediction: The next film-maker can do whatever they please and Fox's earlier declarations regarding canon status really do mean nothing. If true, these story details effectively retcon 'Fire And Stone' (and everything which came off of that) as no longer canonical.

If this is what happens with the black ooze, all those characters stranded on that world in the ecosystem from the new comics, should have all succumbed to this fate.

Hope they don't do literal interpretations of that albino whale concept art, though. Those things always looked as awkward and chunky as f**k to me. Definitely not as iconic without Giger's typical biomechanical detailing. Maybe if they added that sort of aethetic and made it look properly intimidating, instead of just a white slab of lard with teeth. Size, alone, was not what made the original classic design so intimidating or timeless.

Quote from: Infected on Oct 24, 2016, 12:57:13 PM
The normal xeno isnt scary anymore, its just cannon fodder.

'Alien Isolation' (and the two original films) prove that assumption completely wrong. It's all about presentation.

QuoteHaving a tall slim psycho looking xeno wich is far superior in everything and having the mind of ten smart Einsteins all based on how to kill you off as nasty as possible, and being as fast as a cheetah, this thing coming after you in a ship or jungle, you cant even outrun them it doesnt even hide in small vents, it just comes at you for one thing and when he lunges at you, those long nasty white strong fingers go through your eyebals like a hot knife throug a small newborn baby. (was that over the top? i never can tell ;)

But... That's practically what the normal Alien design already does.
I didnt find the xeno in Isolation scary, the way it moved was a complete laugh to me, worker Joe on the other hand was a complete nerve buster and scarier then a xeno, ehm the first two movies are irrelevant in this, its about the new presentation.
I see the old xeno as an old car that was hot back then and fast, lets say a Ferrari its now as fast as a standard BMW.
A big black clunky xeno doesnt cut it anymore, you need a fast flexibel strong creeper and he has to be huge to scare the shits out of you.
There is no way in any presentation that you can make the xeno scary in this form at this moment,
we all have seen it way to much, it isnt a mystery anymore nor is he undefined anymore,
the AVP movies have a part in that and Alien:R and Aliens also a little, i loved Aliens but it took away every aspect of horror away from the creature/thing.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: oduodu on Oct 24, 2016, 09:08:00 PM
I am very excited that we will see the effect of the goo on an entire ecosystem BUT what concerns is that we might be having a bit of the Prometheus syndrome where basically nothing fits with anything else. Or contradicts what was previously shown. Its early days I know but i am cautious that we might end up with too many loose ends. But still very excited.

Thanks for the info Corporal. Also for the fake script thread.

Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: windebieste on Oct 24, 2016, 10:14:40 PM
'Neomorph'?  Sounds like he's identifying the chestburster rather than the adult creature. 

Which would be fine with me.  Neomorph is a great descriptor for the newly emerged Alien from its host, literally, 'new shape'.  It's a much more fitting name than 'chestburster'.  While chestburster is descriptive and long established now, it is a clumsy and awkward moniker that probably needs an update for the sake of general terminology.  Especially if these things are going to start emerging from alternate body places like the throat and back. 

I'd be happy to see neomorph enter canon as an alternate name for this early stage of the Alien regardless of its exit point in the body - or in the case of some examples like the one in 'ALIEN: Resurrection' where it is removed manually and the original term is inadequate but the word 'neomorph' fits perfectly.

Anyway, we'll see.  Still a long way to go and for all we know he meant 'xenomorph' and couldn't remember the word.

Ack... still too long to wait before this movie is released.  lol.

-Windebieste.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: KillCrites on Oct 24, 2016, 10:34:46 PM
Sounds sweet. I love this concept. ;D
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: SuicideDoors on Oct 24, 2016, 10:36:49 PM
Quote from: Infected on Oct 24, 2016, 09:04:04 PM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 24, 2016, 03:20:51 PM
So, basically, they rewatched the old 'Firewalker' episode fo 'The X-Files' and decided to shunt it into this. :) It's really not original.

What's interesting is that it essentially vindicates my original prediction: The next film-maker can do whatever they please and Fox's earlier declarations regarding canon status really do mean nothing. If true, these story details effectively retcon 'Fire And Stone' (and everything which came off of that) as no longer canonical.

If this is what happens with the black ooze, all those characters stranded on that world in the ecosystem from the new comics, should have all succumbed to this fate.

Hope they don't do literal interpretations of that albino whale concept art, though. Those things always looked as awkward and chunky as f**k to me. Definitely not as iconic without Giger's typical biomechanical detailing. Maybe if they added that sort of aethetic and made it look properly intimidating, instead of just a white slab of lard with teeth. Size, alone, was not what made the original classic design so intimidating or timeless.

Quote from: Infected on Oct 24, 2016, 12:57:13 PM
The normal xeno isnt scary anymore, its just cannon fodder.

'Alien Isolation' (and the two original films) prove that assumption completely wrong. It's all about presentation.

QuoteHaving a tall slim psycho looking xeno wich is far superior in everything and having the mind of ten smart Einsteins all based on how to kill you off as nasty as possible, and being as fast as a cheetah, this thing coming after you in a ship or jungle, you cant even outrun them it doesnt even hide in small vents, it just comes at you for one thing and when he lunges at you, those long nasty white strong fingers go through your eyebals like a hot knife throug a small newborn baby. (was that over the top? i never can tell ;)

But... That's practically what the normal Alien design already does.
I didnt find the xeno in Isolation scary, the way it moved was a complete laugh to me, worker Joe on the other hand was a complete nerve buster and scarier then a xeno, ehm the first two movies are irrelevant in this, its about the new presentation.
I see the old xeno as an old car that was hot back then and fast, lets say a Ferrari its now as fast as a standard BMW.
A big black clunky xeno doesnt cut it anymore, you need a fast flexibel strong creeper and he has to be huge to scare the shits out of you.
There is no way in any presentation that you can make the xeno scary in this form at this moment,
we all have seen it way to much, it isnt a mystery anymore nor is he undefined anymore,
the AVP movies have a part in that and Alien:R and Aliens also a little, i loved Aliens but it took away every aspect of horror away from the creature/thing.

To some of us the Alien is a character though, a childhood hero if you will. To see the '79 Alien recreated lovingly on the big screen would be the equivalent of your favourite band playing your favourite deep cut from their second album that they've only played once before. The HR Giger Alien hasn't been topped by any single one original creature feature in 37 years. Nor has the Great white shark in countless imitators and further iterations of Jaws since '75. To be honest it's the skill of whose behind the camera that really elevates Jaws, the Alien design helped Scott just as much as he helped it.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: i work in film on Oct 24, 2016, 10:43:05 PM
I'd like to state for the record this is absolutely not true.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: 426Buddy on Oct 24, 2016, 11:12:02 PM
Quote from: Infected on Oct 24, 2016, 09:04:04 PM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 24, 2016, 03:20:51 PM
So, basically, they rewatched the old 'Firewalker' episode fo 'The X-Files' and decided to shunt it into this. :) It's really not original.

What's interesting is that it essentially vindicates my original prediction: The next film-maker can do whatever they please and Fox's earlier declarations regarding canon status really do mean nothing. If true, these story details effectively retcon 'Fire And Stone' (and everything which came off of that) as no longer canonical.

If this is what happens with the black ooze, all those characters stranded on that world in the ecosystem from the new comics, should have all succumbed to this fate.

Hope they don't do literal interpretations of that albino whale concept art, though. Those things always looked as awkward and chunky as f**k to me. Definitely not as iconic without Giger's typical biomechanical detailing. Maybe if they added that sort of aethetic and made it look properly intimidating, instead of just a white slab of lard with teeth. Size, alone, was not what made the original classic design so intimidating or timeless.

Quote from: Infected on Oct 24, 2016, 12:57:13 PM
The normal xeno isnt scary anymore, its just cannon fodder.

'Alien Isolation' (and the two original films) prove that assumption completely wrong. It's all about presentation.

QuoteHaving a tall slim psycho looking xeno wich is far superior in everything and having the mind of ten smart Einsteins all based on how to kill you off as nasty as possible, and being as fast as a cheetah, this thing coming after you in a ship or jungle, you cant even outrun them it doesnt even hide in small vents, it just comes at you for one thing and when he lunges at you, those long nasty white strong fingers go through your eyebals like a hot knife throug a small newborn baby. (was that over the top? i never can tell ;)

But... That's practically what the normal Alien design already does.
I didnt find the xeno in Isolation scary, the way it moved was a complete laugh to me, worker Joe on the other hand was a complete nerve buster and scarier then a xeno, ehm the first two movies are irrelevant in this, its about the new presentation.
I see the old xeno as an old car that was hot back then and fast, lets say a Ferrari its now as fast as a standard BMW.
A big black clunky xeno doesnt cut it anymore, you need a fast flexibel strong creeper and he has to be huge to scare the shits out of you.
There is no way in any presentation that you can make the xeno scary in this form at this moment,
we all have seen it way to much, it isnt a mystery anymore nor is he undefined anymore,
the AVP movies have a part in that and Alien:R and Aliens also a little, i loved Aliens but it took away every aspect of horror away from the creature/thing.

I highly disagree. That may have been your reaction to isolation but the game was praised by many in the gaming and alien community for making the creature scary again. Personally I though they succeeded in making the Alien intimidating and frightening, something I didn't think was possible anymore.

Anyhing within reason can be scary, it just depends on the context. The creature is plenty scary in the right hands.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: g2vd on Oct 24, 2016, 11:13:01 PM
Quote from: Infected on Oct 24, 2016, 09:04:04 PM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 24, 2016, 03:20:51 PM
So, basically, they rewatched the old 'Firewalker' episode fo 'The X-Files' and decided to shunt it into this. :) It's really not original.

What's interesting is that it essentially vindicates my original prediction: The next film-maker can do whatever they please and Fox's earlier declarations regarding canon status really do mean nothing. If true, these story details effectively retcon 'Fire And Stone' (and everything which came off of that) as no longer canonical.

If this is what happens with the black ooze, all those characters stranded on that world in the ecosystem from the new comics, should have all succumbed to this fate.

Hope they don't do literal interpretations of that albino whale concept art, though. Those things always looked as awkward and chunky as f**k to me. Definitely not as iconic without Giger's typical biomechanical detailing. Maybe if they added that sort of aethetic and made it look properly intimidating, instead of just a white slab of lard with teeth. Size, alone, was not what made the original classic design so intimidating or timeless.

Quote from: Infected on Oct 24, 2016, 12:57:13 PM
The normal xeno isnt scary anymore, its just cannon fodder.

'Alien Isolation' (and the two original films) prove that assumption completely wrong. It's all about presentation.

QuoteHaving a tall slim psycho looking xeno wich is far superior in everything and having the mind of ten smart Einsteins all based on how to kill you off as nasty as possible, and being as fast as a cheetah, this thing coming after you in a ship or jungle, you cant even outrun them it doesnt even hide in small vents, it just comes at you for one thing and when he lunges at you, those long nasty white strong fingers go through your eyebals like a hot knife throug a small newborn baby. (was that over the top? i never can tell ;)

But... That's practically what the normal Alien design already does.
I didnt find the xeno in Isolation scary, the way it moved was a complete laugh to me, worker Joe on the other hand was a complete nerve buster and scarier then a xeno, ehm the first two movies are irrelevant in this, its about the new presentation.
I see the old xeno as an old car that was hot back then and fast, lets say a Ferrari its now as fast as a standard BMW.
A big black clunky xeno doesnt cut it anymore, you need a fast flexibel strong creeper and he has to be huge to scare the shits out of you.
There is no way in any presentation that you can make the xeno scary in this form at this moment,
we all have seen it way to much, it isnt a mystery anymore nor is he undefined anymore,
the AVP movies have a part in that and Alien:R and Aliens also a little, i loved Aliens but it took away every aspect of horror away from the creature/thing.
You sound like Robert with his I-Pod Predators. lol
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Nostromo on Oct 25, 2016, 12:10:29 AM
I think Isolation was a grand slam home run for the Alien community and franchise as a whole. And it couldn't have came at a better time.

After all the setbacks and letdowns starting with AVP, AVPR, AVP the game in 2010 & Aliens Colonial Marines this was much needed & appreciated, by most.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Anonymous on Oct 24, 2016, 06:42:14 PM
No, just NO. The picture seems lame. There is no art to that alien-type. It looks simply as hybrid of Giger alien and human. Very bad in my opinion.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: windebieste on Oct 25, 2016, 12:51:09 AM
Yep.  We needed to land that home run.  Luckily we got that game and it delivered in ways those previous items failed.

I wonder how much the game has influenced 'ALIEN: Covenant'.  Does anyone know if Scott played the game?  Bet he shit himself if he did and probably thought "Hell, this is good but no video game is going to outdo me like this."  The movie may well turn out to be a hybrid of 'ALIEN: Isolation' and 'Prometheus' with its own identity thrown into the mix.

Either way, I hope we get to find out what Scott thought about the game.

-Windebieste.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: doomtrain on Oct 25, 2016, 01:16:16 AM
you can see the spores in the holograpic recordings that David activates in the tunnels ........ even the decapitated engineer is clutching his throat as he drops .

not a complete turn around AT ALL ..... pretty awesome continuity actually 😊😊😊
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Xenomorphine on Oct 25, 2016, 01:23:35 AM
Quote from: CainsSon on Oct 24, 2016, 08:45:32 PM
This got me thinking - If these spores are breathed-in, then that could play into the Pilot suit with it's elephantine, respirator-tube.

Good observation... Though I'd still prefer it if there were real Space Jockeys and the Engineers were just shown to be emulating their physiology. That creature on the derelict still clearly has teeth and a tongue.

If they're clever, the story might even reference the famous reports of strange masked beings spraying some kind of a mysterious gas around, shortly before the Black Death hit civilisation. Those always intrigued me and would fit right in with the Engineers' alleged MO of upgrading our species' genes by force, every now and then.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Nostromo on Oct 25, 2016, 01:32:22 AM
I kind of like the whole Alien Isolation & Aliens Defiance timeline. Some nice stories can come out of all that. But better I continue that on another topic & thread.

The whole Prometheus-Covenant to Alien storyline should be great too, I love the current position and direction we are heading into now.


Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 25, 2016, 01:23:35 AM
Quote from: CainsSon on Oct 24, 2016, 08:45:32 PM
This got me thinking - If these spores are breathed-in, then that could play into the Pilot suit with it's elephantine, respirator-tube.

Good observation... Though I'd still prefer it if there were real Space Jockeys and the Engineers were just shown to be emulating their physiology. That creature on the derelict still clearly has teeth and a tongue.

If they're clever, the story might even reference the famous reports of strange masked beings spraying some kind of a mysterious gas around, shortly before the Black Death hit civilisation. Those always intrigued me and would fit right in with the Engineers' alleged MO of upgrading our species' genes by force, every now and then.

This got me thinking too :).

Could it be that the engineer head they brought back exploded because it had already been exposed to spores right before he fell and the door collapsed on him? Maybe they were running from a spore outbreak? That would explain why he just collapsed as if nothing touched hm. The head didn't blow up in the tomb because it was dead, but when they revive it...kaboom?

I'm tellig you guys, I really think Covenant will explain a lot of misunderstood sh!t that happened in Prometheus...
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Godzillakuj94 on Oct 25, 2016, 01:45:23 AM
Please please look like this! I really need to see this design on-screen.
Spoiler
(https://alienseries.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/prometheus-babyhead-design-copy.jpg)
[close]
If not that, then hopefully something like this-
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcache.krop.com%2Fivanmanzella-4fd5fbd810fa536.jpg&hash=72a765971b6a2fbc756c980b5be2c07996046143)
[close]
*spoiler tags just so I don't clutter up the page*
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: SuicideDoors on Oct 25, 2016, 01:48:18 AM
Quote from: i work in film on Oct 24, 2016, 10:43:05 PM
I'd like to state for the record this is absolutely not true.

What isn't true?
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Vermillion on Oct 25, 2016, 02:48:34 AM
Spores?!?

Ahh Christ.  Just use facehuggers.

Don't f**k this up Ridley!
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: CainsSon on Oct 25, 2016, 03:06:14 AM
Quote from: Godzillakuj94 on Oct 25, 2016, 01:45:23 AM
Please please look like this! I really need to see this design on-screen.
Spoiler
(https://alienseries.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/prometheus-babyhead-design-copy.jpg)
[close]
If not that, then hopefully something like this-
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcache.krop.com%2Fivanmanzella-4fd5fbd810fa536.jpg&hash=72a765971b6a2fbc756c980b5be2c07996046143)
[close]
*spoiler tags just so I don't clutter up the page*
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fconceptartworld.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F06%2FPrometheus_Concept_Art_Ivan_Manzella_13a.jpg&hash=b43e410fc77c7a09012387bf2ae9e9da88f764e5)


SPORES... Like this? Or like tiny air-born things they cant see? For instance like the tiny bug-like stuff that flies out of the Engineer in the beginning of Jon Spaihts ENGINEERS script?

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette3.wikia.nocookie.net%2Favp%2Fimages%2Fb%2Fb4%2FNormal_art-of-prometheus-019.PNG%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20121127223251&hash=cab1e100c9bf441c3f4a07546561631f4a0815b0)
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: whiterabbit on Oct 25, 2016, 03:57:18 AM
Well it's either spores of scarabs... it would explain all of that flying shit in the recordings.

Quote from: CainsSon on Oct 25, 2016, 03:06:14 AM
SPORES... Like this? Or like tiny air-born things they cant see? For instance like the tiny bug-like stuff that flies out of the Engineer in the beginning of Jon Spaihts ENGINEERS script?

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette3.wikia.nocookie.net%2Favp%2Fimages%2Fb%2Fb4%2FNormal_art-of-prometheus-019.PNG%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20121127223251&hash=cab1e100c9bf441c3f4a07546561631f4a0815b0)
I'd prefer that but I think the sack explodes, thus releasing the spores.

At the moment the idea of albino aliens seems kind of oh-hum. No offense to anyone's tastes but that beluga-morph thing is boring. I mean I'm ok with it, if Big Chap murders the things but I want something more. Although this does leave us with 4 types of aliens.... meaning the possibilities are endless.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Space Invader on Oct 25, 2016, 03:59:40 AM
Let's hope they don't do a Xenomorph vs Neomorph battle in the end, with the Neomorph ripping Xenomorph's head off  :P
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: whiterabbit on Oct 25, 2016, 04:11:48 AM
Quote from: Super Predator on Oct 25, 2016, 03:59:40 AM
Let's hope they don't do a Xenomorph vs Neomorph battle in the end, with the Neomorph ripping Xenomorph's head off  :P
Oh god I hope not. I mean I'm fine with doing a Spaihts draft where instead of humans the Alien murders the neomorph without more than a second thought but a final battle of Alien vs Neo... oh f**k no man. This is Jurassic Park III and Independence Day Resurrection all over again.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: SiL on Oct 25, 2016, 04:38:12 AM
Quote from: Infected on Oct 24, 2016, 09:04:04 PM
There is no way in any presentation that you can make the xeno scary in this form at this moment,
we all have seen it way to much, it isnt a mystery anymore nor is he undefined anymore,
the AVP movies have a part in that and Alien:R and Aliens also a little, i loved Aliens but it took away every aspect of horror away from the creature/thing.
Yeah, that's all bullshit. Familiarity with the look or actions isn't what makes a thing scary. People use that as an excuse to be f**king lazy with their storytelling, or justify bullshit new creatures to keep things "fresh".

Anything can be scary if handled competently.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: BishopShouldGo on Oct 25, 2016, 04:53:10 AM
Exactly what SiL said.

Ridley was even a victim of that kind of thinking for a period of time. Ridley!
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Nostromo on Oct 25, 2016, 05:15:03 AM
Yes totally agree. If a director or writer is too lazy or dumb to make it scary than they should go somewhere else, or go write some lost story.


Quote from: Godzillakuj94 on Oct 25, 2016, 01:45:23 AM
Please please look like this! I really need to see this design on-screen.
Spoiler
(https://alienseries.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/prometheus-babyhead-design-copy.jpg)
[close]
If not that, then hopefully something like this-
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcache.krop.com%2Fivanmanzella-4fd5fbd810fa536.jpg&hash=72a765971b6a2fbc756c980b5be2c07996046143)
[close]
*spoiler tags just so I don't clutter up the page*
What the fk is that first one lol. 2nd is better. I think this is getting out of hand all these mutants. I hope they can just stay with the original or beluga or deacon designs, 3 is enough or a whole army of mutants is better? Man some hardcore fans are going to break their monitors soon lol.


If I see scarabs n spores n shit flying around or if they take up more than 5 mins of the movie...someone's going to pay lol. Or some poor thing.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: windebieste on Oct 25, 2016, 05:43:14 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 25, 2016, 04:38:12 AM
Quote from: Infected on Oct 24, 2016, 09:04:04 PM
There is no way in any presentation that you can make the xeno scary in this form at this moment,
we all have seen it way to much, it isnt a mystery anymore nor is he undefined anymore,
the AVP movies have a part in that and Alien:R and Aliens also a little, i loved Aliens but it took away every aspect of horror away from the creature/thing.
Yeah, that's all bullshit. Familiarity with the look or actions isn't what makes a thing scary. People use that as an excuse to be f**king lazy with their storytelling, or justify bullshit new creatures to keep things "fresh".

Anything can be scary if handled competently.

Familiarity with sharks doesn't stop 'Jaws' from being scary.  Spielberg made a masterful thriller by tapping into peoples' fears with that one.  Kept people off the beaches, too, for that matter.  Mind you, since then, most movies featuring sharks lack the power of that Classic.  Mind you, that's not due to familiarity, that's got a lot more to do with the power of the content not being understood. 

If anything, it's familiarity with the Alien that made 'ALIEN: Isolation' the edgy game it was.  Being versed in all the lore surrounding the game sure aided in appreciating it's goals.

-Windebieste.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: SiL on Oct 25, 2016, 06:02:47 AM
That's the example I go to. The fact most shark movies haven't been scary since is pretty directly related to the fact that most aren't good to begin with.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: System Apollo on Oct 25, 2016, 06:36:03 AM
Ugh.. This sounds like they are trying to form a new extreme catalyst from the xenomorph design...

Can't they just leave the xenomorph alone?
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: whiterabbit on Oct 25, 2016, 07:27:11 AM
I just had a thought, what if the reason terraforming is so necessary is because all of the beautiful planets are booby trapped to kill off humans. Also, Xeno-shark!
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Stdnasty on Oct 25, 2016, 07:49:56 AM
What if...  OK not part of avp universe but enginers had a long ongoing war and genetic manipulation and terraforming seem to be the only way to get the numbers they needed to end this war that is going on who knows for how long maybe several millennia that's why they do it on a planetary scale now sure maybe those Engineers were running from an outbreak and "God we know what this is going to do let's get the hell out of here" let's assume they created the human race we were just more cannon fodder but who knows maybe the war ended maybe the engineers all got wiped out by their own creation that was because as I understand it the black goo causes forced Evolution what better way to get the numbers they needed in a couple thousand years versus a couple of billion. Which if we were nothing but cannon fodder to them would explain why the sole engineer in Prometheus have no problem killing everybody when asked for a favor
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Kronnang_Dunn on Oct 25, 2016, 08:01:59 AM
Quote from: Nostromo on Oct 25, 2016, 01:32:22 AM
This got me thinking too :).

Could it be that the engineer head they brought back exploded because it had already been exposed to spores right before he fell and the door collapsed on him? Maybe they were running from a spore outbreak? That would explain why he just collapsed as if nothing touched hm. The head didn't blow up in the tomb because it was dead, but when they revive it...kaboom?

I always thought that the head was frozen. That was what kept it from exploding...


Quote from: Nostromo on Oct 25, 2016, 01:32:22 AM
I'm tellig you guys, I really think Covenant will explain a lot of misunderstood sh!t that happened in Prometheus...

Actually most of the "misunderstood sh!t" from Prometheus was just Ridley sacrificing film continuity for the sake of a better pace...  ::)
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: DaddyYautja on Oct 25, 2016, 08:18:17 AM
It appears that they are reworking the whole evolution cycle in these new alien movies just to be able to come up what they want in terms of story.

I guess im going to have to wait some more decades to get movies with aliens coming out of other animals creating new xenos with new abilities.

QuoteThese spores infect several members of the Covenant crew by entering the body through the ear and nostrils.

I reeeeeeally hope that these people are not as idiotic as the Prom crew. I dont know a lot about this story but they are going to be just as dumb i hope they make them space truckers instead of scientist that should not be that dumb.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: John Doe on Oct 25, 2016, 08:22:00 AM
Great info Hicks. Now i can image something like this:

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.wixstatic.com%2Fmedia%2F1c4ff3_d565365a19484b68899c3c985f553ddb.jpg_srz_1575_800_85_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_jpg_srz&hash=0db326450dfb367bffa1156dd8f5c9bad4f632c7)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freshdesigner.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F09%2F10.1.jpg&hash=19627789b7c17332131eee7fc3bd231f99a06f58)

I think the Engeneers live in caves under waterfalls to avoid pods.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Kurai on Oct 25, 2016, 10:53:53 AM
I skipped over a few pages so forgive me if someone brought this up already.

I read a few posts where people were saying that they were backtreading on what has already been established, changing how the Black Goo works and decanonizing Fire & Stone... This couldn't be further from the truth.

First of all, the Neomorphs are perfectly in line with what was established in Prometheus. As was clearly stated, this is the result of Black Goo mutating local wildlife, something that was entirely absent on Lv223 apart from perhaps those worms. What we do see is Holloway infected with Black Goo and proceeding to inseminate Shaw. His "Spore" infects Shaw with the Trilobite which could very well have burst from Shaw if it had been given the chance. Is the Trilobite a Neomorph? No. From what I can gather, the Neomorphs originate from a Black Goo mutated variant of local flora rather than a human so differences are quite acceptable in result of "cross polination". This all fits perfectly with Prometheus.

As for Fire and Stone... Lv223's Black Goo Monsters are the result of natural evolution accelerated by Black Goo on a planet totally absent of life outside of what was introduced by humans and the little Worms. We can also include alien micro-organisms that may have been spread by the awakened Engineer. The Spore Bearers, or whatever we want to call them, on Paradise are the result of an already established ecosystem becoming infected by the Black Goo and, as I stated in the above paragraph, as that matches with the effects in Prometheus it can match with the effects in Fire and Stone.

There's also the case of the unknown "Terraforming Device" discovered in the Engineer ruins during Fire and Stone. I don't have the issue with me right now, unfortunatly, but IIRC  it is stated that it is both an atmosphere generator as well as a biological seed injector working in tandem with the Black Goo.

Nothing has been invalidated, the EU is fine.  :)
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Whiskeybrewer on Oct 25, 2016, 10:58:36 AM
^^ Thanks for that

I was thinking as much, but since i still havent read Fire and Stone, i wasnt sure
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Nostromo on Oct 25, 2016, 12:01:34 PM
Quote from: John Doe on Oct 25, 2016, 08:22:00 AM
Great info Hicks. Now i can image something like this:

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.wixstatic.com%2Fmedia%2F1c4ff3_d565365a19484b68899c3c985f553ddb.jpg_srz_1575_800_85_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_jpg_srz&hash=0db326450dfb367bffa1156dd8f5c9bad4f632c7)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freshdesigner.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F09%2F10.1.jpg&hash=19627789b7c17332131eee7fc3bd231f99a06f58)

I think the Engeneers live in caves under waterfalls to avoid pods.
Nice looking art/pics!


Wondering if we'll finally get an explanation as to why that misty green laser cloud cover was apparent aboard the Detelict in Alien where the eggs were. Maybe it acts as a containment field. Awww man this airborne spore stuff is going to spread like wildfire across the Alien world...
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: The Alien Predator on Oct 25, 2016, 12:35:41 PM
Green? I thought it was blue. You're talking about that stasis where the eggs are in, right? Where Kane finds them and gets facehugged.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Glaive on Oct 25, 2016, 12:43:09 PM
Quote from: Nostromo on Oct 25, 2016, 12:01:34 PM
Quote from: John Doe on Oct 25, 2016, 08:22:00 AM
Great info Hicks. Now i can image something like this:

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.wixstatic.com%2Fmedia%2F1c4ff3_d565365a19484b68899c3c985f553ddb.jpg_srz_1575_800_85_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_jpg_srz&hash=0db326450dfb367bffa1156dd8f5c9bad4f632c7)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freshdesigner.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F09%2F10.1.jpg&hash=19627789b7c17332131eee7fc3bd231f99a06f58)

I think the Engeneers live in caves under waterfalls to avoid pods.
Nice looking art/pics!


Wondering if we'll finally get an explanation as to why that misty green laser cloud cover was apparent aboard the Detelict in Alien where the eggs were. Maybe it acts as a containment field. Awww man this airborne spore stuff is going to spread like wildfire across the Alien world...

I think the 'green mist' is a combination containment device, security device, and trip-wire...

...and just to be clear, the spore propagation in Gibson's 'ALIEN III' makes MUCH less sense...

From the script after some have been inhaled...

"
                                WELLES
                The Anchorpoint phase of the project is terminated,
                Rosetti.  You'll keep Hicks and the android in
                solitary until they can return with us to Gateway
                to stand trial for treason.

                                TRENT
                The Anchorpoint phase?  What do you mean?  We
                have no more material to work with...

                                FOX
                You have no more material to work with, Trent.
                In any case, it's become obvious that you aren't
                quite the man for the job.  We took the precaution
                of obtaining our own samples.  They're on their
                way to Gateway.

                                WELLES
                        (with cold satisfaction)
                ... and everything, every move each of you have
                made, since our arrival, is going to be gone
                over with a fine toothed c-c-c-c--

As Welles begins to stammer, her eyes betray a terrible consternation.  She
rises from her chair, lurches forward, catching herself on her hands.  The
C-C-C-C-C phases into a chattering palsy as a thick strand of blood-streaked
drool descends toward the table.  Fox, seated to her left, has instinctively
shoved his own chair back, ready to run.  Everyone else is frozen with shock.

As the chittering tooth-burr becomes a shrill SHRIEK of inhuman rage, the
transformation takes place.  Segmented biomechanoid tendons squirm beneath the
skin of her arms.  Her hands claw at one another, tearing redundant flesh from
alien talons.  Then the shriek dies.  She straightens up.

And, rips her face apart in a single movement, the glistening claws coming
away with skin, eyes, muscle, teeth, and splinters of bone... SOUND of ripping
cloth.  The New Beast sheds its human skin in a single sinuous, bloody ripple,
molting on fast forward.

An instant of utter silence as the featureless mask moves.  From side to side.
Scanning.

Trent vomits explosively.  The Marine guard snatches his pistol from its
holster and FIRES wildly across the table.  Blind screaming chaos.

OVERHEAD SHOT

as the directorate plunges, like a single panicked organism, to the far side
of the bubble.  The thing is on Fox before he can get up from his chair.

CLOSE

On his scream as the sucking, fanged tongue plunges through the orbit of his
eye.

ANGLE

A Marine with a flamethrower bursts through the door, torching Fox and the New
Beast, setting fire to the bubble's acoustic foam baffles.

"

Sure NOBODY would want THAT!!
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: SiL on Oct 25, 2016, 12:55:51 PM
Blue. Blue laser mist.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: icedog97 on Oct 25, 2016, 01:06:27 PM
It would seem that the best way to get from creatures that appear to be mostly organic (Prometheus) to creatures that are bio-mechanical (Alien) would be to introduce a synthetic life form somewhere along the way.

So it wouldn't be surprising...although maybe a little too straightforward...if David turns out to be the father/creator of what we see in Alien.
 
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Glaive on Oct 25, 2016, 01:28:02 PM
Quote from: icedog97 on Oct 25, 2016, 01:06:27 PM
It would seem that the best way to get from creatures that appear to be mostly organic (Prometheus) to creatures that are bio-mechanical (Alien) would be to introduce a synthetic life form somewhere along the way.

So it wouldn't be surprising...although maybe a little too straightforward...if David turns out to be the father/creator of what we see in Alien.


So David is still Dr Moreau...AGAIN!
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Kurai on Oct 25, 2016, 01:45:33 PM
Another thing I keep on seeing:

Black Goo evolves into Aliens. I get why people think this, though I don't see the truth in it. We have it established that we'll be seeing the Alien in Covenant alongside the Neomorphs and Black Goo Mutants, is it really so hard to believe that the Neomorphs are not the progenitors of the Alien?

I very well could be wrong on this, but I don't think I am. It just reeks of cheese to me. :(
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: John Doe on Oct 25, 2016, 02:23:21 PM
Pods and spores:

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette1.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fmemoryalpha%2Fimages%2F1%2F1e%2FOmicron_spores.jpg%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20041218054157%26amp%3Bpath-prefix%3Den&hash=896c726c3248b51b4337ae164f0f033cb7ca412e)

:D
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Bob on Oct 25, 2016, 04:31:30 PM
Neomorphs may be a member of the xeno family, but not the progenitors. At least, not in this film. Xenomorphs have already exisited long before this movie takes place.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: The Eighth Passenger on Oct 25, 2016, 04:35:35 PM
Quote from: i work in film on Oct 24, 2016, 10:43:05 PM
I'd like to state for the record this is absolutely not true.

And you are, sir?

Quote from: windebieste on Oct 25, 2016, 12:51:09 AM
Does anyone know if Scott played the game?  Bet he shit himself if he did and probably thought "Hell, this is good but no video game is going to outdo me like this."  The movie may well turn out to be a hybrid of 'ALIEN: Isolation' and 'Prometheus' with its own identity thrown into the mix.

Either way, I hope we get to find out what Scott thought about the game.

-Windebieste.

:laugh: Sir Scott doesn't really strike me as the kind of man who plays vidja games.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Oct 25, 2016, 04:51:58 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Oct 25, 2016, 04:35:35 PM
Quote from: windebieste on Oct 25, 2016, 12:51:09 AM
Does anyone know if Scott played the game?  Bet he shit himself if he did and probably thought "Hell, this is good but no video game is going to outdo me like this."  The movie may well turn out to be a hybrid of 'ALIEN: Isolation' and 'Prometheus' with its own identity thrown into the mix.

Either way, I hope we get to find out what Scott thought about the game.

-Windebieste.

:laugh: Sir Scott doesn't really strike me as the kind of man who plays vidja games.

He didn't. Isolation played no part in Covenant, unfortunately.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: lv_226 on Oct 25, 2016, 04:55:16 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 25, 2016, 04:51:58 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Oct 25, 2016, 04:35:35 PM
Quote from: windebieste on Oct 25, 2016, 12:51:09 AM
Does anyone know if Scott played the game?  Bet he shit himself if he did and probably thought "Hell, this is good but no video game is going to outdo me like this."  The movie may well turn out to be a hybrid of 'ALIEN: Isolation' and 'Prometheus' with its own identity thrown into the mix.

Either way, I hope we get to find out what Scott thought about the game.

-Windebieste.

:laugh: Sir Scott doesn't really strike me as the kind of man who plays vidja games.

He didn't. Isolation played no part in Covenant, unfortunately.

Would be nice to have a cinematic experience equivalent to the sheer horror of Isolation.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: CainsSon on Oct 25, 2016, 06:13:43 PM
Quote from: Glaive on Oct 25, 2016, 01:28:02 PM
Quote from: icedog97 on Oct 25, 2016, 01:06:27 PM
It would seem that the best way to get from creatures that appear to be mostly organic (Prometheus) to creatures that are bio-mechanical (Alien) would be to introduce a synthetic life form somewhere along the way.

So it wouldn't be surprising...although maybe a little too straightforward...if David turns out to be the father/creator of what we see in Alien.


So David is still Dr Moreau...AGAIN!

This is where I think it's going as well. But its important to note that in some way, the Xeno has existed before and that is MOST LIKELY what they are trying to show us with this NEOMORPH.

We are dealing with something larger now perhaps, that should not be explained: How life is created. We don't have these answers. So the feel I'm getting from COVENANT, based on what we know now, is that Scott wants us to imagine a universe where these Engineers have tried all kinds of stuff we cannot understand. Different chemical compounds used to terraform and give life to planets, and that these creatures, they may come in all kinds of different variations, should the slightest change be made to the structure of the goo.
What I like about that is that it restores mystery to the universe and the creatures; if instead of watching the films thinking 'Oh this is how they were made and that's that.' instead we are thinking 'There are countless mysteries to how these Engineers started all kinds of life and no telling what variation or type of organic world we may encounter next.'
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: hfeldhaus on Oct 25, 2016, 06:39:44 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 25, 2016, 04:51:58 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Oct 25, 2016, 04:35:35 PM
Quote from: windebieste on Oct 25, 2016, 12:51:09 AM
Does anyone know if Scott played the game?  Bet he shit himself if he did and probably thought "Hell, this is good but no video game is going to outdo me like this."  The movie may well turn out to be a hybrid of 'ALIEN: Isolation' and 'Prometheus' with its own identity thrown into the mix.

Either way, I hope we get to find out what Scott thought about the game.

-Windebieste.

:laugh: Sir Scott doesn't really strike me as the kind of man who plays vidja games.

He didn't. Isolation played no part in Covenant, unfortunately.

How much do you actually know about Covenent Hicks? Not asking you to spill all the beans just wandering really. Are you waiting for further evidence before you put out any more articles like this?
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: CainsSon on Oct 25, 2016, 06:48:50 PM
Quote from: hfeldhaus on Oct 25, 2016, 06:39:44 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 25, 2016, 04:51:58 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Oct 25, 2016, 04:35:35 PM
Quote from: windebieste on Oct 25, 2016, 12:51:09 AM
Does anyone know if Scott played the game?  Bet he shit himself if he did and probably thought "Hell, this is good but no video game is going to outdo me like this."  The movie may well turn out to be a hybrid of 'ALIEN: Isolation' and 'Prometheus' with its own identity thrown into the mix.

Either way, I hope we get to find out what Scott thought about the game.

-Windebieste.

:laugh: Sir Scott doesn't really strike me as the kind of man who plays vidja games.

He didn't. Isolation played no part in Covenant, unfortunately.

How much do you actually know about Covenent Hicks? Not asking you to spill all the beans just wandering really. Are you waiting for further evidence before you put out any more articles like this?

Yeah! How much you holding out on us Hicks?!
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: The Alien Predator on Oct 25, 2016, 07:05:57 PM
Quote from: CainsSon on Oct 25, 2016, 06:48:50 PM
Quote from: hfeldhaus on Oct 25, 2016, 06:39:44 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 25, 2016, 04:51:58 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Oct 25, 2016, 04:35:35 PM
Quote from: windebieste on Oct 25, 2016, 12:51:09 AM
Does anyone know if Scott played the game?  Bet he shit himself if he did and probably thought "Hell, this is good but no video game is going to outdo me like this."  The movie may well turn out to be a hybrid of 'ALIEN: Isolation' and 'Prometheus' with its own identity thrown into the mix.

Either way, I hope we get to find out what Scott thought about the game.

-Windebieste.

:laugh: Sir Scott doesn't really strike me as the kind of man who plays vidja games.

He didn't. Isolation played no part in Covenant, unfortunately.

How much do you actually know about Covenent Hicks? Not asking you to spill all the beans just wandering really. Are you waiting for further evidence before you put out any more articles like this?

Yeah! How much you holding out on us Hicks?!

This guy WROTE the script for Scott, we know it, don't lie Hicks! I got it all figured out. You thought Prometheus wasn't scary enough, so you wrote a horrifying monstrosity of a script which Scott absolutely adored, Fox immediately green lit the project due to your amazing talent for horror.

You also commissioned SM to do all the concept art, so you both know 100% what's coming.  :laugh:
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: lv_226 on Oct 25, 2016, 07:28:12 PM
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Oct 25, 2016, 07:05:57 PM
Quote from: CainsSon on Oct 25, 2016, 06:48:50 PM
Quote from: hfeldhaus on Oct 25, 2016, 06:39:44 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 25, 2016, 04:51:58 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Oct 25, 2016, 04:35:35 PM
Quote from: windebieste on Oct 25, 2016, 12:51:09 AM
Does anyone know if Scott played the game?  Bet he shit himself if he did and probably thought "Hell, this is good but no video game is going to outdo me like this."  The movie may well turn out to be a hybrid of 'ALIEN: Isolation' and 'Prometheus' with its own identity thrown into the mix.

Either way, I hope we get to find out what Scott thought about the game.

-Windebieste.

:laugh: Sir Scott doesn't really strike me as the kind of man who plays vidja games.

He didn't. Isolation played no part in Covenant, unfortunately.

How much do you actually know about Covenent Hicks? Not asking you to spill all the beans just wandering really. Are you waiting for further evidence before you put out any more articles like this?

Yeah! How much you holding out on us Hicks?!

This guy WROTE the script for Scott, we know it, don't lie Hicks! I got it all figured out. You thought Prometheus wasn't scary enough, so you wrote a horrifying monstrosity of a script which Scott absolutely adored, Fox immediately green lit the project due to your amazing talent for horror.

You also commissioned SM to do all the concept art, so you both know 100% what's coming.  :laugh:

A film BY the community, FOR the community. Alien:Covenant.  :P
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Xenomorphine on Oct 25, 2016, 08:31:46 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 25, 2016, 06:02:47 AM
That's the example I go to. The fact most shark movies haven't been scary since is pretty directly related to the fact that most aren't good to begin with.

Agreed. 'The Reef' was a pleasant surprise, in that regard.

Surprised nobody's done something similar with a school of Humboldt squid. Those things are horrifyingly aggressive.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Oct 25, 2016, 08:57:29 PM
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Oct 25, 2016, 07:05:57 PM
This guy WROTE the script for Scott, we know it, don't lie Hicks!

I wish! Though it has been sometime since I last wrote a script.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: DaddyYautja on Oct 25, 2016, 09:06:26 PM
Quote from: Kurai on Oct 25, 2016, 10:53:53 AM
Spoiler
I skipped over a few pages so forgive me if someone brought this up already.

I read a few posts where people were saying that they were backtreading on what has already been established, changing how the Black Goo works and decanonizing Fire & Stone... This couldn't be further from the truth.

First of all, the Neomorphs are perfectly in line with what was established in Prometheus. As was clearly stated, this is the result of Black Goo mutating local wildlife, something that was entirely absent on Lv223 apart from perhaps those worms. What we do see is Holloway infected with Black Goo and proceeding to inseminate Shaw. His "Spore" infects Shaw with the Trilobite which could very well have burst from Shaw if it had been given the chance. Is the Trilobite a Neomorph? No. From what I can gather, the Neomorphs originate from a Black Goo mutated variant of local flora rather than a human so differences are quite acceptable in result of "cross polination". This all fits perfectly with Prometheus.

As for Fire and Stone... Lv223's Black Goo Monsters are the result of natural evolution accelerated by Black Goo on a planet totally absent of life outside of what was introduced by humans and the little Worms. We can also include alien micro-organisms that may have been spread by the awakened Engineer. The Spore Bearers, or whatever we want to call them, on Paradise are the result of an already established ecosystem becoming infected by the Black Goo and, as I stated in the above paragraph, as that matches with the effects in Prometheus it can match with the effects in Fire and Stone.

There's also the case of the unknown "Terraforming Device" discovered in the Engineer ruins during Fire and Stone. I don't have the issue with me right now, unfortunatly, but IIRC  it is stated that it is both an atmosphere generator as well as a biological seed injector working in tandem with the Black Goo.

Nothing has been invalidated, the EU is fine.  :)
[close]

You are reframing the previous info using the current info to make it fit. And it doesnt really. The snake showed a completely different weird cylce of worm, snake, monster/alien, to the one from that ended in Shaw. Liquid, man, woman, thing, alien.

Like i said, the liquid seems to have been created for the writers to come up with the stories as they like. Apparently, egg, facehugger, chestbuster, alien, was a bit limiting when it came to their imagination.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: The Eighth Passenger on Oct 25, 2016, 09:30:03 PM
Quote from: CainsSon on Oct 25, 2016, 06:48:50 PM
Quote from: hfeldhaus on Oct 25, 2016, 06:39:44 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 25, 2016, 04:51:58 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Oct 25, 2016, 04:35:35 PM
Quote from: windebieste on Oct 25, 2016, 12:51:09 AM
Does anyone know if Scott played the game?  Bet he shit himself if he did and probably thought "Hell, this is good but no video game is going to outdo me like this."  The movie may well turn out to be a hybrid of 'ALIEN: Isolation' and 'Prometheus' with its own identity thrown into the mix.

Either way, I hope we get to find out what Scott thought about the game.

-Windebieste.

:laugh: Sir Scott doesn't really strike me as the kind of man who plays vidja games.

He didn't. Isolation played no part in Covenant, unfortunately.

How much do you actually know about Covenent Hicks? Not asking you to spill all the beans just wandering really. Are you waiting for further evidence before you put out any more articles like this?

Yeah! How much you holding out on us Hicks?!

Ve have vays of making ze talk Herr Corporal.

But I guess the bit about Ridley not having played Isolation might be from the Wayne interview, since it is not classified/NDA information as far as I'm aware?
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: windebieste on Oct 25, 2016, 09:51:04 PM
From what I can appreciate about Scott, he has little regard for video games. 

Hypothetically, I'm just wondering if someone has come up to him and said "Hey, guess what, Ridley?  That new ALIEN game is actually quite good. You should try it."  I'd imagine Scott's reply would be something along the lines of "Meh.  It's just a video game.  It's got no real artistic content or merit compared to MY movie! but, well, I'll try it anyway".

The next day, Scott stumbles into his office, shaking and screaming, still tightly clutching onto a PS4 controller in his white knuckled fist. "Those f**kers aren't getting away with making a video game that's scarier than MY MOVIE, DAMMIT! I refuse to be outdone by a video game! I'm gon make 'ALIEN: Covenant' be shit yer pants scary!" 

That's what I envisage may have happened, well, sorta.

lol.

-Windebieste.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Skylark Duquesne on Oct 25, 2016, 09:54:56 PM
Quote from: Saggit on Oct 24, 2016, 09:34:08 AM
This is terrible! I mean the creature is terrible. And not in a good way. I want our regular xenomorph, not some albino. Ridley Scott please stop toying around. Prometheus was enough! Just make a good Alien movie like you did in 1979...
All this black goo, zombies and giant octopus bullsh...OH! And that "Alien" in the end. You can probably bash it to death with a broom stick. We have a saying in Poland:" Better is an enemy of good". I have such a love/hate attitude towards this movie...
One step further towards obliteration of anything gigeresque in the franchise ?
The xenomorph certainly needs a redesign but what a strange direction to take.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Oct 25, 2016, 10:17:52 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Oct 25, 2016, 09:30:03 PM
But I guess the bit about Ridley not having played Isolation might be from the Wayne interview, since it is not classified/NDA information as far as I'm aware?

Correct but unfortunately, that question isn't in the actual interview. It was something I forgot to ask until we were just chatting about Isolation after the interview.

I'm just doing some editing on it now actually. We're not even talking about Covenant yet and I'm really enjoying just listening to Wayne talk. Don't expect a spoiler filled interview but there's some nice insight into the production.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: SiL on Oct 25, 2016, 10:22:44 PM
Quote from: lv_226 on Oct 25, 2016, 04:55:16 PM

Would be nice to have a cinematic experience equivalent to the sheer horror of Isolation.
It was called ALIEN.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: BishopShouldGo on Oct 25, 2016, 10:37:29 PM
Seems like we're getting a new cinematic experience like that. Although on a bigger scale. Be still my heart.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: whiterabbit on Oct 25, 2016, 11:15:24 PM
I think it's going to be somewhere in between Alien and Aliens and all smothered in the Prometheus Black Goo. Which sounds pretty damn interesting.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: lv_226 on Oct 26, 2016, 02:21:49 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 25, 2016, 10:22:44 PM
Quote from: lv_226 on Oct 25, 2016, 04:55:16 PM

Would be nice to have a cinematic experience equivalent to the sheer horror of Isolation.
It was called ALIEN.

*cough* I am aware of Alien  8)
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Xenomorphine on Oct 26, 2016, 02:28:34 AM
I don't think Scott plays computer games, but we know Blomkamp not only has experienced 'Isolation', but that it affected him profoundly enough to directly influence and change how he would approach his own project. We also know that Scott is producing, likes the first draft Blomkamp handed in and has apparently talked a lot with him.

While he might not have played it himself, I do suspect, Blomkamp's had his own influence, in this regard and might have possibly showed him a few brief video clips of it to illustrate his points (if only of peoples' reactions to experiencing it). It would explain why the guy's done a complete 180, in terms of not believing the original design can have any psychological impact, to suddenly including them.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: CainsSon on Oct 26, 2016, 03:21:13 AM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Oct 25, 2016, 11:15:24 PM
I think it's going to be somewhere in between Alien and Aliens and all smothered in the Prometheus Black Goo. Which sounds pretty damn interesting.

This series could really use a shot in the leg at this point. I get the feeling this film will be it. If there is one thing I can say without question about PROMETHEUS its that if it leads to a great ALIEN COVENANT, I will be able to forgive it, of nearly all its flaws. Which reminds me... The best question now is: What will these new creatures look like?

Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: motherfather on Oct 26, 2016, 04:06:01 AM
Lets just hope that effects wise, we don't end up with something egg sac or pod wise that looks like it belongs to the film "Lost in Space" - the Matt Le Blanc version...

I still want to see something totally non-reminiscent of the human bipedal silhouette. Microscopic tardigrades for example already look freakishly Alien. Something like that..
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: genocyber on Oct 26, 2016, 04:20:19 AM
So we now got Super Predators and Neomorphs.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: windebieste on Oct 26, 2016, 04:34:45 AM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 26, 2016, 02:28:34 AM
I don't think Scott plays computer games, but we know Blomkamp not only has experienced 'Isolation', but that it affected him profoundly enough to directly influence and change how he would approach his own project. We also know that Scott is producing, likes the first draft Blomkamp handed in and has apparently talked a lot with him.

While he might not have played it himself, I do suspect, Blomkamp's had his own influence, in this regard and might have possibly showed him a few brief video clips of it to illustrate his points (if only of peoples' reactions to experiencing it). It would explain why the guy's done a complete 180, in terms of not believing the original design can have any psychological impact, to suddenly including them.

Yeah.  For sure.  I'm wondering if Scott's decision to embrace the familiar stages of the Alien once again has been influenced by the game.  He seems to have had a sudden turn about in regards to how powerful the original concepts can be.  This appears to have happened around the same time Blomkamp made his statements regarding the game's environment design influencing his own vision.

-Windebieste.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Necronomicon II on Oct 26, 2016, 05:45:14 AM
I wouldn't rule out seeing the original xeno design, but a new spin on the familiar is more than welcome since it adds an element of unpredictability and expands on the notion of the perfect organism, mind you I haven't read what Hicks has posted (no spoilers for me!) but from the general gist I gather that the Neomorph(s) will be something akin to what was in the "Engineers" script? Something like that translucent, amorphous creature would be cool.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: SiL on Oct 26, 2016, 08:09:55 AM
That's basically it, yes (sorry to spoil it).
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Necronomicon II on Oct 26, 2016, 09:32:40 AM
Ah cool, apology unnecessary mate. Well I suspected that they'd use some of those ideas from Engineers, hope they're executed well.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: BonesawT101 on Oct 26, 2016, 12:07:01 PM
Have the guys who leaked this had a detailed description of what the neomorph actually look like?
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Valaquen on Oct 26, 2016, 12:55:48 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 25, 2016, 10:22:44 PM
Quote from: lv_226 on Oct 25, 2016, 04:55:16 PM
Would be nice to have a cinematic experience equivalent to the sheer horror of Isolation.
It was called ALIEN.

:laugh:
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Oct 26, 2016, 01:10:33 PM
Quote from: BonesawT101 on Oct 26, 2016, 12:07:01 PM
Have the guys who leaked this had a detailed description of what the neomorph actually look like?

The appearance is described in the article, Bonesaw.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: BonesawT101 on Oct 26, 2016, 01:42:51 PM
Okay thanks man, I'll have to give it a real proper read through again, haven't had a chance to really go through it all! Thanks again for the info!
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: lv_226 on Oct 26, 2016, 01:53:59 PM
Quote from: Skylark Duquesne on Oct 25, 2016, 09:54:56 PM
Quote from: Saggit on Oct 24, 2016, 09:34:08 AM
This is terrible! I mean the creature is terrible. And not in a good way. I want our regular xenomorph, not some albino. Ridley Scott please stop toying around. Prometheus was enough! Just make a good Alien movie like you did in 1979...
All this black goo, zombies and giant octopus bullsh...OH! And that "Alien" in the end. You can probably bash it to death with a broom stick. We have a saying in Poland:" Better is an enemy of good". I have such a love/hate attitude towards this movie...
One step further towards obliteration of anything gigeresque in the franchise ?
The xenomorph certainly needs a redesign but what a strange direction to take.

I wouldn't go and ring the death knell of Giger-esque elements just yet—although you bring a valid point concerning the series moving away from those elements (I believe the last time we legitimately saw biomechanical elements was in Aliens, Alien 3 was certainly a departure from that aesthetic). While Prometheus contained plenty of architecture reminiscent of Giger's work, hell it was all over the temple and even the suits of the Engineers, Arthur Max (production designer) explicitly stated that the designs were inspired—and not directly lifted from—Giger. I'm all for seeing more of Giger's aesthetic as I feel it creates an atmosphere of a foreboding unknown we have not seen since the first film.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: BonesawT101 on Oct 26, 2016, 02:51:43 PM
If the original designs of the facehugger, chestburster and 79 big chap are in Covenant then the Giger aesthetic will be very much present.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: The Eighth Passenger on Oct 26, 2016, 03:56:42 PM
Quote from: windebieste on Oct 26, 2016, 04:34:45 AM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 26, 2016, 02:28:34 AM
I don't think Scott plays computer games, but we know Blomkamp not only has experienced 'Isolation', but that it affected him profoundly enough to directly influence and change how he would approach his own project. We also know that Scott is producing, likes the first draft Blomkamp handed in and has apparently talked a lot with him.

While he might not have played it himself, I do suspect, Blomkamp's had his own influence, in this regard and might have possibly showed him a few brief video clips of it to illustrate his points (if only of peoples' reactions to experiencing it). It would explain why the guy's done a complete 180, in terms of not believing the original design can have any psychological impact, to suddenly including them.

Yeah.  For sure.  I'm wondering if Scott's decision to embrace the familiar stages of the Alien once again has been influenced by the game.  He seems to have had a sudden turn about in regards to how powerful the original concepts can be.  This appears to have happened around the same time Blomkamp made his statements regarding the game's environment design influencing his own vision.

-Windebieste.

More likely it is the studio who "convinced" (ordered) him to include the original design. Just like they originally "requested" that he not have it in Prometheus.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: BishopShouldGo on Oct 26, 2016, 04:00:58 PM
I think he also discerned that the new Star Wars was successful in part because of its classic characters returning. Big Chap is our Han Solo in a way.

He stated that the new Star Wars was indeed an influence.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: lv_226 on Oct 26, 2016, 04:15:26 PM
Quote from: BonesawT101 on Oct 26, 2016, 02:51:43 PM
If the original designs of the facehugger, chestburster and 79 big chap are in Covenant then the Giger aesthetic will be very much present.
I hope you're right, I really do.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: SuicideDoors on Oct 26, 2016, 07:06:00 PM
Quote from: BishopShouldGo on Oct 26, 2016, 04:00:58 PM
I think he also discerned that the new Star Wars was successful in part because of its classic characters returning. Big Chap is our Han Solo in a way.

Couldn't agree with this more! Big Chap is an icon of popular culture. Tee shirts, toys, video games. You name it. Alien vs Predator nearly wrung it dry cinematically; but a decade after those monstrosities, Alien is still a masterpiece. Aliens is still regarded as one of the finest follow ups of all time. The people have spoken we want our 1979 Alien back!
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: CainsSon on Oct 26, 2016, 07:08:08 PM
Quote from: lv_226 on Oct 26, 2016, 04:15:26 PM
Quote from: BonesawT101 on Oct 26, 2016, 02:51:43 PM
If the original designs of the facehugger, chestburster and 79 big chap are in Covenant then the Giger aesthetic will be very much present.
I hope you're right, I really do.

Well he did say OUTRIGHT that we have facehuggers, chestbursters and the Big Alien. I'm actually more excited for these Neomorphs now. I also hope there isn't TOO much going on. You know? That can really ruin a movie. Maybe the Big Chap will be the final boss here. Then again, my only issue with that is Id hate to see it disposed of too easily/quickly. But really who knows at this point.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Infected on Oct 26, 2016, 07:16:25 PM
Quote from: windebieste on Oct 25, 2016, 05:43:14 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 25, 2016, 04:38:12 AM
Quote from: Infected on Oct 24, 2016, 09:04:04 PM
There is no way in any presentation that you can make the xeno scary in this form at this moment,
we all have seen it way to much, it isnt a mystery anymore nor is he undefined anymore,
the AVP movies have a part in that and Alien:R and Aliens also a little, i loved Aliens but it took away every aspect of horror away from the creature/thing.
Yeah, that's all bullshit. Familiarity with the look or actions isn't what makes a thing scary. People use that as an excuse to be f**king lazy with their storytelling, or justify bullshit new creatures to keep things "fresh".

Anything can be scary if handled competently.

Familiarity with sharks doesn't stop 'Jaws' from being scary.  Spielberg made a masterful thriller by tapping into peoples' fears with that one.  Kept people off the beaches, too, for that matter.  Mind you, since then, most movies featuring sharks lack the power of that Classic.  Mind you, that's not due to familiarity, that's got a lot more to do with the power of the content not being understood. 

If anything, it's familiarity with the Alien that made 'ALIEN: Isolation' the edgy game it was.  Being versed in all the lore surrounding the game sure aided in appreciating it's goals.

-Windebieste.
It was scary back then yes i agree, but now a Jaws wont be scary ever again no matter how you throw it at the audience.
Same with the xeno, back then it was scary and in space and a creature that stalked, but after Aliens and the rest of the movies the xeno didnt become scary it became a defined creature, fighting with predators etc made it just a silly creature,
wich had a lot of help of the stupidity of humans, breaking it down it isnt scary enough anymore, we know what it can do and we know how it works.
When i look at Michael Myers from Halloween, he had some shitty movies, but he kept his identity, and his concept still can work,
done by a good writer, he is still undefined.
But if im reading the comments around here Ridley has got a big job to do, because i think a lot of fanboys wont give him the credit he deserves even if he will bring us a big good Alien movie and introducing the new xeno's,
some just wanna stick and believe in that old concept that is gone as dust.

And the Force Awakens sucks come on!!!!
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Sgt.Jackrus on Oct 26, 2016, 07:20:41 PM
Quote from: Infected on Oct 26, 2016, 07:16:25 PM
Quote from: windebieste on Oct 25, 2016, 05:43:14 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 25, 2016, 04:38:12 AM
Quote from: Infected on Oct 24, 2016, 09:04:04 PM
There is no way in any presentation that you can make the xeno scary in this form at this moment,
we all have seen it way to much, it isnt a mystery anymore nor is he undefined anymore,
the AVP movies have a part in that and Alien:R and Aliens also a little, i loved Aliens but it took away every aspect of horror away from the creature/thing.
Yeah, that's all bullshit. Familiarity with the look or actions isn't what makes a thing scary. People use that as an excuse to be f**king lazy with their storytelling, or justify bullshit new creatures to keep things "fresh".

Anything can be scary if handled competently.

Familiarity with sharks doesn't stop 'Jaws' from being scary.  Spielberg made a masterful thriller by tapping into peoples' fears with that one.  Kept people off the beaches, too, for that matter.  Mind you, since then, most movies featuring sharks lack the power of that Classic.  Mind you, that's not due to familiarity, that's got a lot more to do with the power of the content not being understood. 

If anything, it's familiarity with the Alien that made 'ALIEN: Isolation' the edgy game it was.  Being versed in all the lore surrounding the game sure aided in appreciating it's goals.

-Windebieste.
It was scary back then yes i agree, but now a Jaws wont be scary ever again no matter how you throw it at the audience.
Same with the xeno, back then it was scary and in space and a creature that stalked, but after Aliens and the rest of the movies the xeno didnt become scary it became a defined creature, fighting with predators etc made it just a silly creature,
wich had a lot of help of the stupidity of humans, breaking it down it isnt scary enough anymore, we know what it can do and we know how it works.
When i look at Michael Myers from Halloween, he had some shitty movies, but he kept his identity, and his concept still can work,
done by a good writer, he is still undefined.
But if im reading the comments around here Ridley has got a big job to do, because i think a lot of fanboys wont give him the credit he deserves even if he will bring us a big good Alien movie and introducing the new xeno's,
some just wanna stick and believe in that old concept that is gone as dust.

And the Force Awakens sucks come on!!!!

Thats why most people think the first movie is the best.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: HuDaFuK on Oct 26, 2016, 07:22:45 PM
Quote from: CainsSon on Oct 26, 2016, 07:08:08 PMMaybe the Big Chap will be the final boss here. Then again, my only issue with that is Id hate to see it disposed of too easily/quickly.

Anyone considered that maybe the original Alien will be the "boss" and will then dispose of these new upstarts in short order?

After all, it is meant to be "structural perfection".
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Infected on Oct 26, 2016, 07:49:59 PM
Quote from: Sgt.Jackrus on Oct 26, 2016, 07:20:41 PM
Quote from: Infected on Oct 26, 2016, 07:16:25 PM
Quote from: windebieste on Oct 25, 2016, 05:43:14 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 25, 2016, 04:38:12 AM
Quote from: Infected on Oct 24, 2016, 09:04:04 PM
There is no way in any presentation that you can make the xeno scary in this form at this moment,
we all have seen it way to much, it isnt a mystery anymore nor is he undefined anymore,
the AVP movies have a part in that and Alien:R and Aliens also a little, i loved Aliens but it took away every aspect of horror away from the creature/thing.
Yeah, that's all bullshit. Familiarity with the look or actions isn't what makes a thing scary. People use that as an excuse to be f**king lazy with their storytelling, or justify bullshit new creatures to keep things "fresh".

Anything can be scary if handled competently.

Familiarity with sharks doesn't stop 'Jaws' from being scary.  Spielberg made a masterful thriller by tapping into peoples' fears with that one.  Kept people off the beaches, too, for that matter.  Mind you, since then, most movies featuring sharks lack the power of that Classic.  Mind you, that's not due to familiarity, that's got a lot more to do with the power of the content not being understood. 

If anything, it's familiarity with the Alien that made 'ALIEN: Isolation' the edgy game it was.  Being versed in all the lore surrounding the game sure aided in appreciating it's goals.

-Windebieste.
It was scary back then yes i agree, but now a Jaws wont be scary ever again no matter how you throw it at the audience.
Same with the xeno, back then it was scary and in space and a creature that stalked, but after Aliens and the rest of the movies the xeno didnt become scary it became a defined creature, fighting with predators etc made it just a silly creature,
wich had a lot of help of the stupidity of humans, breaking it down it isnt scary enough anymore, we know what it can do and we know how it works.
When i look at Michael Myers from Halloween, he had some shitty movies, but he kept his identity, and his concept still can work,
done by a good writer, he is still undefined.
But if im reading the comments around here Ridley has got a big job to do, because i think a lot of fanboys wont give him the credit he deserves even if he will bring us a big good Alien movie and introducing the new xeno's,
some just wanna stick and believe in that old concept that is gone as dust.

And the Force Awakens sucks come on!!!!

Thats why most people think the first movie is the best.
You know, i like it until the killing begins and then to me the mystery also dissapears.
I could watch the first act thousands of times, going to the derelict ship etc
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: whiterabbit on Oct 26, 2016, 11:01:14 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Oct 26, 2016, 07:22:45 PM
Quote from: CainsSon on Oct 26, 2016, 07:08:08 PMMaybe the Big Chap will be the final boss here. Then again, my only issue with that is Id hate to see it disposed of too easily/quickly.

Anyone considered that maybe the original Alien will be the "boss" and will then dispose of these new upstarts in short order?

After all, it is meant to be "structural perfection".
Aliens vs Alien... god damn that would be real f**king original...  :laugh:

I'm thinking the humans find the Alien DNA and release it in hopes of killing the other aliens that are killing them. Which would be pretty pathetic. I'm starting to wonder just how exactly they will introduce the big boy. Will they just find one, on ice or will it take the traditional cycle. There seems to be a lot going on here. Unless the Alien is just going to be one of the many monsters the crew succumbs too.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: System Apollo on Oct 26, 2016, 11:57:25 PM
I'm starting to think that the studio pulled a strausism when considering to include the original xenomorph. I am anticipating a convolusion in Covenant including both creatures and it will probably stray away from answering any questions it left remaining in Prometheus.

I'm crossing my fingers with this one but I am starting to believe that this will be even more mediocre than the previous film.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: eric sanders on Oct 27, 2016, 12:56:03 AM
so its call the these alien creature the neomorph that is awesome name no longer call the xenomorph its is now making history its not repeating itself its is now rewritten i love the aliens movies series please continue with alien 5 and 6 plus a tv series in 2017 thank you
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: CrimzonNinja on Oct 27, 2016, 02:31:52 AM
so thats it then....people are already starting to hate this movie. i will be once again the only person on the planet to like a new movie that has come out this year. its why i like to keep my mouth shut when it comes to giving my opinion on any movie cause my opinion always seems to be wrong.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Necronomicon II on Oct 27, 2016, 03:18:14 AM
Not really seeing that myself, just a whole lot of speculation, every Alien film has introduced different elements, so I expect nothing less here.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: System Apollo on Oct 27, 2016, 03:23:47 AM
Quote from: CrimzonNinja on Oct 27, 2016, 02:31:52 AM
so thats it then....people are already starting to hate this movie. i will be once again the only person on the planet to like a new movie that has come out this year. its why i like to keep my mouth shut when it comes to giving my opinion on any movie cause my opinion always seems to be wrong.
Oh come now, don't hold off your opinion, forums are designed for them.

We as fans are just extremely weary of all three of the franchises (AvP, Alien and Predator) after 2 decades of lackluster content under their IP (spare the novels since reading has become such a seldom hobby these days). In retrospect, both Prometheus and Predators were far from elevating the franchises back to their respective status so we mostly assume that they're just films that brought a spike to ratings only to fall back down even further than they were before.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: CainsSon on Oct 27, 2016, 04:34:47 AM
Quote from: Sgt.Jackrus on Oct 26, 2016, 07:20:41 PM
Quote from: Infected on Oct 26, 2016, 07:16:25 PM
Quote from: windebieste on Oct 25, 2016, 05:43:14 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 25, 2016, 04:38:12 AM
Quote from: Infected on Oct 24, 2016, 09:04:04 PM
There is no way in any presentation that you can make the xeno scary in this form at this moment,
we all have seen it way to much, it isnt a mystery anymore nor is he undefined anymore,
the AVP movies have a part in that and Alien:R and Aliens also a little, i loved Aliens but it took away every aspect of horror away from the creature/thing.
Yeah, that's all bullshit. Familiarity with the look or actions isn't what makes a thing scary. People use that as an excuse to be f**king lazy with their storytelling, or justify bullshit new creatures to keep things "fresh".

Anything can be scary if handled competently.

Familiarity with sharks doesn't stop 'Jaws' from being scary.  Spielberg made a masterful thriller by tapping into peoples' fears with that one.  Kept people off the beaches, too, for that matter.  Mind you, since then, most movies featuring sharks lack the power of that Classic.  Mind you, that's not due to familiarity, that's got a lot more to do with the power of the content not being understood. 

If anything, it's familiarity with the Alien that made 'ALIEN: Isolation' the edgy game it was.  Being versed in all the lore surrounding the game sure aided in appreciating it's goals.

-Windebieste.
It was scary back then yes i agree, but now a Jaws wont be scary ever again no matter how you throw it at the audience.
Same with the xeno, back then it was scary and in space and a creature that stalked, but after Aliens and the rest of the movies the xeno didnt become scary it became a defined creature, fighting with predators etc made it just a silly creature,
wich had a lot of help of the stupidity of humans, breaking it down it isnt scary enough anymore, we know what it can do and we know how it works.
When i look at Michael Myers from Halloween, he had some shitty movies, but he kept his identity, and his concept still can work,
done by a good writer, he is still undefined.
But if im reading the comments around here Ridley has got a big job to do, because i think a lot of fanboys wont give him the credit he deserves even if he will bring us a big good Alien movie and introducing the new xeno's,
some just wanna stick and believe in that old concept that is gone as dust.

And the Force Awakens sucks come on!!!!

Thats why most people think the first movie is the best.

I dont think that the only thing scary about Alien is the alien. Space is scary in Alien. Being awoken in this vast emptiness against you will at the mercy of a contract all of these things are scary in Alien. This type of stuff is continued in ALIENS but is missing from the other films. When it IS present, the filmmakers didnt think to play it up right. For instance, in ALIEN 3 - the fact that the company is on the way and may kill the prisoners could have been introduced earlier in the film to ramp up suspense...

All the emphasis placed on seeing the monster was certainly a factor, but it is far from the only thing about Alien that was scary. It was this whole no way out everywhere they turned that worked for it and the film knew how to consistently ramp that up.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: windebieste on Oct 27, 2016, 04:57:57 AM
Ah, this movie will be AWESOME!  It's an ALIEN movie. It's got Scott at the helm.  It's gonna have all the icky sticky stuff we love so much. 

IT'S GONNA BE GREAT!

So what's there to hate about it?  Oh, that's right.  Sigourney Weaver isn't in it. 

Oh.  Well, that's AWESOME, too!!!1!  :P

-Windebieste.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: The Alien Predator on Oct 27, 2016, 05:14:33 AM
Quote from: windebieste on Oct 27, 2016, 04:57:57 AM
Ah, this movie will be AWESOME!  It's an ALIEN movie. It's got Scott at the helm.  It's gonna have all the icky sticky stuff we love so much. 

IT'S GONNA BE GREAT!

So what's there to hate about it?  Oh, that's right.  Sigourney Weaver isn't in it. 

Oh.  Well, that's AWESOME, too!!!1!  :P

-Windebieste.

Best thing about it for me. I'd love to see more new and refreshing characters!   I look forward to seeing who and also what Covenant introduces to us.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: System Apollo on Oct 27, 2016, 05:45:17 AM
Really don't want to quote all that is above but I do want throw in a comment.

Horror films aren't scary because of their props but because of how they devise themselves. Alien was not scary because of the Alien but how nerve-racking the whole thing was.

Alien was a great film because this was understood and every element was being utilized at a sophisticated level.

Aliens understood this, Alien 3 understood this and yes even Prometheus understood this.

What didn't understand this was Resurrection and AvP.

What didn't understand what the definition of understand was, was Requiem.

Spoiler
"Requiem" for a hard ARRRRR rating! PFFTHAHA, nevermind I take back what I said about sinking to a whole new low. Requiem is the precedent! lol!
[close]


Quote from: windebieste on Oct 27, 2016, 04:57:57 AM
Ah, this movie will be AWESOME!  It's an ALIEN movie. It's got Scott at the helm.  It's gonna have all the icky sticky stuff we love so much. 

IT'S GONNA BE GREAT!

So what's there to hate about it?  Oh, that's right.  Sigourney Weaver isn't in it. 

Oh.  Well, that's AWESOME, too!!!1!  :P

-Windebieste.
Bu-bu-but Sigourney Weaver needs to redeem her role on the tattered remains of my beloved series with newly improved Giga-Hix and Super-Noot!
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: fiveways on Oct 27, 2016, 06:06:39 AM
Parts kinda remind me of what Fifield was mutating into in Prometheus. 

Either way, most interesting news in a while.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Morose on Oct 27, 2016, 06:30:53 AM
As far as the issue of Sigorney in the alien franchise, I feel that if they make an alien 5 film, newt should be the main character and Sigorney should be this wise sage type character. I know it sounds to much same old same old with the young hero and the guiding wise man, but, as far as the scenario we are in, it can work.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Kurai on Oct 27, 2016, 06:53:24 AM
Quote from: DaddyYautja on Oct 25, 2016, 09:06:26 PM
Quote from: Kurai on Oct 25, 2016, 10:53:53 AM
Spoiler
I skipped over a few pages so forgive me if someone brought this up already.

I read a few posts where people were saying that they were backtreading on what has already been established, changing how the Black Goo works and decanonizing Fire & Stone... This couldn't be further from the truth.

First of all, the Neomorphs are perfectly in line with what was established in Prometheus. As was clearly stated, this is the result of Black Goo mutating local wildlife, something that was entirely absent on Lv223 apart from perhaps those worms. What we do see is Holloway infected with Black Goo and proceeding to inseminate Shaw. His "Spore" infects Shaw with the Trilobite which could very well have burst from Shaw if it had been given the chance. Is the Trilobite a Neomorph? No. From what I can gather, the Neomorphs originate from a Black Goo mutated variant of local flora rather than a human so differences are quite acceptable in result of "cross polination". This all fits perfectly with Prometheus.

As for Fire and Stone... Lv223's Black Goo Monsters are the result of natural evolution accelerated by Black Goo on a planet totally absent of life outside of what was introduced by humans and the little Worms. We can also include alien micro-organisms that may have been spread by the awakened Engineer. The Spore Bearers, or whatever we want to call them, on Paradise are the result of an already established ecosystem becoming infected by the Black Goo and, as I stated in the above paragraph, as that matches with the effects in Prometheus it can match with the effects in Fire and Stone.

There's also the case of the unknown "Terraforming Device" discovered in the Engineer ruins during Fire and Stone. I don't have the issue with me right now, unfortunatly, but IIRC  it is stated that it is both an atmosphere generator as well as a biological seed injector working in tandem with the Black Goo.

Nothing has been invalidated, the EU is fine.  :)
[close]

You are reframing the previous info using the current info to make it fit. And it doesnt really. The snake showed a completely different weird cylce of worm, snake, monster/alien, to the one from that ended in Shaw. Liquid, man, woman, thing, alien.

Like i said, the liquid seems to have been created for the writers to come up with the stories as they like. Apparently, egg, facehugger, chestbuster, alien, was a bit limiting when it came to their imagination.

Not at all. The snake showed pretty much the same cycle, yet only one part of it. The snake started as a worm, perhaps a single-celled organism before that but that's reaching too far without evidence. The Black Goo caused it to mutate into a larger and highly aggressive form, the complexity of which was caused by the worms being drenched in Black Goo.

More Black Goo = More radical changes.

Holloway received a single drop of Black Goo which radically altered his DNA, drastically affecting his gametes. If he wasn't burnt to a crisp, I wouldn't be surprised if he'd have gone full on Goo-Zombie later.

Fifield ended up with his whole face in Black Goo after the snake incident, resulting in him turning into an aggressive zombie like Black Goo Mutant.

Black Goo Monsters:
Creatures evolving from Black Goo mixed with whatever biological matter was left over from the dead Prometheus crew members, Hammerpedes, Engineer and Engineer related micro-organisms. Possibly also related to the Deacon, as the BG-Sharks highly resemble it, and also related to the Engineer terraforming device.

Black Goo Mutants:
Organisms infected by the Black Goo. These include the Hammerpede, Fifield-Zombie, Horny-Holloway, Elden, Francis-Hulk, Xeno-Luiz, Pred-Hulk and various mutated Black Goo Monsters probably. If there are any I missed, let me know.

The Deacon Cycle:
This is a very intricate web of events which would be hard to replicate... First we have the infected Holloway spread infected gametes to Shaw via sexual intercourse. Shaw was barren, so chances are she didn't have any viable eggs and the mutant gametes instead fused with her uteral lining. The creature which was produced was the Trilobite. The Trilobite the proceeded to deposit an embryo into an Engineer through his mouth and the offspring of that match-up was the Deacon... Which lived happilly ever after as a mountain...   :)

Neomorphs:
From what I have seen, and so far the information is scant, only just the article we have here...
Neomorphs are the result of Black Goo Mutant plants spreading their gametes in the form of Spores. These Mutant Spores are breathed in by the crew of the Covenent and travel throughout the infected's body before something causes them to activate (speculation based on varying positions of Burster, though this may be wrong). Once activated, the spores begin merging with the genetic material of their host before reaching a level mature enough to violently eject themselves from their host. These juvenile 4-legged Neomorphs then grow into the big scary bipedal Neomorphs.

So yeah, again, I don't see how it contradicts anything.

QuoteYou are reframing the previous info using the current info to make it fit.
Well no. I'm taking established depictions and pointing out that no new info has changed anything that was depicted. The current info matches the cycle that was presented in the old info. If new info reframes old info, well that's just how things work in real life.

For what it's worth I've always thought of the above as how the Black Goo works so the addition of the Neomorphs and the fact they line up so well with the above has little to do with new info.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: windebieste on Oct 27, 2016, 07:20:12 AM
Quote from: System Apollo on Oct 27, 2016, 05:45:17 AM
Quote from: windebieste on Oct 27, 2016, 04:57:57 AM
Ah, this movie will be AWESOME!  It's an ALIEN movie. It's got Scott at the helm.  It's gonna have all the icky sticky stuff we love so much. 

IT'S GONNA BE GREAT!

So what's there to hate about it?  Oh, that's right.  Sigourney Weaver isn't in it. 

Oh.  Well, that's AWESOME, too!!!1!  :P

-Windebieste.
Bu-bu-but Sigourney Weaver needs to redeem her role on the tattered remains of my beloved series with newly improved Giga-Hix and Super-Noot!

YES! Sigourney will return!  Just as Blomkamp has pledged... 

OK, OK... by the time Ripley returns to eternally combat her biomechanical nemesis once again (and again...), she will have traded her powerloader for a zimmer frame with a flamer strapped on one side and a pulse rifle strapped to the other; but it's what TRUE FANS want, right?

Ripley! Ripley! Ripley! RAH, RAH, RAH!

After all, there's only 1 movie in this series and that's the 2nd one! lol.

Oh, all right *grumbles*  It's time to get serious again.  It's not just the monster that's scary.  It's characters you need to bond with, sound design, soundtrack, editing and good story as well that's needed to make this movie intimidating in a positive way once again. 

I am so hoping Scott brings this beast back to its roots.

-Windebieste.


Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: System Apollo on Oct 27, 2016, 08:03:47 AM
Quote from: windebieste on Oct 27, 2016, 07:20:12 AM
Quote from: System Apollo on Oct 27, 2016, 05:45:17 AM
Quote from: windebieste on Oct 27, 2016, 04:57:57 AM
Ah, this movie will be AWESOME!  It's an ALIEN movie. It's got Scott at the helm.  It's gonna have all the icky sticky stuff we love so much. 

IT'S GONNA BE GREAT!

So what's there to hate about it?  Oh, that's right.  Sigourney Weaver isn't in it. 

Oh.  Well, that's AWESOME, too!!!1!  :P

-Windebieste.
Bu-bu-but Sigourney Weaver needs to redeem her role on the tattered remains of my beloved series with newly improved Giga-Hix and Super-Noot!

YES! Sigourney will return!  Just as Blomkamp has pledged... 

OK, OK... by the time Ripley returns to eternally combat her biomechanical nemesis once again (and again...), she will have traded her powerloader for a zimmer frame with a flamer strapped on one side and a pulse rifle strapped to the other; but it's what TRUE FANS want, right?

Ripley! Ripley! Ripley! RAH, RAH, RAH!

After all, there's only 1 movie in this series and that's the 2nd one! lol.

A hypothetical excerpt from Blomkamp's ideal Alien script:
Spoiler

Enter Characters

Ripley Relic
Giga Hix
Super Noot

Entering a counsel chamber, Ripley Relic positions herself on a podium. Across from her is the crooked Weyland Yutani Bourgois to the left of them the beuracratic intergalactic department of security services; acronym: BIDSS.

Relic Ripley, deprived of all sanity could barely begin to speak audibly and coherent. The Bourgois and BIDSS lean in but still could not pick up the dialogue.

Giga Hix steps in and interupts Relic Ripley:
I got acid on my face and my Space Health Care isn't covering it! SO... Which one of you suited up future capitalists are going to step up and pay the price?

*Giga Hix pulls out a pulse rifle with extended mag and scope along with serated steel iron sights and points it at the gathering*

Giga Hix: No one? Didn't think so...

*opens fire*

*Neill in the back breaks a smirk as he reflects upon his best political themed masterpiece as of yet.
[close]
Continue?


QuoteOh, all right *grumbles*  It's time to get serious again.  It's not just the monster that's scary.  It's characters you need to bond with, sound design, soundtrack, editing and good story as well that's needed to make this movie intimidating in a positive way once again. 

I am so hoping Scott brings this beast back to its roots.

-Windebieste.
Scott definitely has a strong grasp on how to deliver what is necessary for horror elements. Although I am not a fan of the neomorph, I am confident that it will be executed very effeciently.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: HuDaFuK on Oct 27, 2016, 08:24:07 AM
Quote from: System Apollo on Oct 27, 2016, 05:45:17 AMHorror films aren't scary because of their props but because of how they devise themselves. Alien was not scary because of the Alien but how nerve-racking the whole thing was.

Alien was a great film because this was understood and every element was being utilized at a sophisticated level.

Aliens understood this, Alien 3 understood this and yes even Prometheus understood this.

Prometheus wasn't scary in the least.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: System Apollo on Oct 27, 2016, 08:51:51 AM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Oct 27, 2016, 08:24:07 AM
Quote from: System Apollo on Oct 27, 2016, 05:45:17 AMHorror films aren't scary because of their props but because of how they devise themselves. Alien was not scary because of the Alien but how nerve-racking the whole thing was.

Alien was a great film because this was understood and every element was being utilized at a sophisticated level.

Aliens understood this, Alien 3 understood this and yes even Prometheus understood this.

Prometheus wasn't scary in the least.
Understandable, I merely was attributing that to the technique and not the overall impact. Unless you felt that it was not the case and if so could you elaborate?
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Infected on Oct 27, 2016, 10:27:31 AM
Quote from: CainsSon on Oct 27, 2016, 04:34:47 AM
Quote from: Sgt.Jackrus on Oct 26, 2016, 07:20:41 PM
Quote from: Infected on Oct 26, 2016, 07:16:25 PM
Quote from: windebieste on Oct 25, 2016, 05:43:14 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 25, 2016, 04:38:12 AM
Quote from: Infected on Oct 24, 2016, 09:04:04 PM
There is no way in any presentation that you can make the xeno scary in this form at this moment,
we all have seen it way to much, it isnt a mystery anymore nor is he undefined anymore,
the AVP movies have a part in that and Alien:R and Aliens also a little, i loved Aliens but it took away every aspect of horror away from the creature/thing.
Yeah, that's all bullshit. Familiarity with the look or actions isn't what makes a thing scary. People use that as an excuse to be f**king lazy with their storytelling, or justify bullshit new creatures to keep things "fresh".

Anything can be scary if handled competently.

Familiarity with sharks doesn't stop 'Jaws' from being scary.  Spielberg made a masterful thriller by tapping into peoples' fears with that one.  Kept people off the beaches, too, for that matter.  Mind you, since then, most movies featuring sharks lack the power of that Classic.  Mind you, that's not due to familiarity, that's got a lot more to do with the power of the content not being understood. 

If anything, it's familiarity with the Alien that made 'ALIEN: Isolation' the edgy game it was.  Being versed in all the lore surrounding the game sure aided in appreciating it's goals.

-Windebieste.
It was scary back then yes i agree, but now a Jaws wont be scary ever again no matter how you throw it at the audience.
Same with the xeno, back then it was scary and in space and a creature that stalked, but after Aliens and the rest of the movies the xeno didnt become scary it became a defined creature, fighting with predators etc made it just a silly creature,
wich had a lot of help of the stupidity of humans, breaking it down it isnt scary enough anymore, we know what it can do and we know how it works.
When i look at Michael Myers from Halloween, he had some shitty movies, but he kept his identity, and his concept still can work,
done by a good writer, he is still undefined.
But if im reading the comments around here Ridley has got a big job to do, because i think a lot of fanboys wont give him the credit he deserves even if he will bring us a big good Alien movie and introducing the new xeno's,
some just wanna stick and believe in that old concept that is gone as dust.

And the Force Awakens sucks come on!!!!

Thats why most people think the first movie is the best.

I dont think that the only thing scary about Alien is the alien. Space is scary in Alien. Being awoken in this vast emptiness against you will at the mercy of a contract all of these things are scary in Alien. This type of stuff is continued in ALIENS but is missing from the other films. When it IS present, the filmmakers didnt think to play it up right. For instance, in ALIEN 3 - the fact that the company is on the way and may kill the prisoners could have been introduced earlier in the film to ramp up suspense...

All the emphasis placed on seeing the monster was certainly a factor, but it is far from the only thing about Alien that was scary. It was this whole no way out everywhere they turned that worked for it and the film knew how to consistently ramp that up.
Yes the industrial feel, the things they have to do to land on the rock where the derelict is,
makes it all more scary.
But to me personal if there was a xeno i wouldnt be mindless afraid, if there was somekind of other undefined creature around or intelligent being i would be more scared and panicky.
Its at the moment impossible to make a scary Jaws movie nor is it impossible to make alien scary with the standard xenomorph,
no matter who directs it or writes the movie, you have to bring new cards to the table.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: HuDaFuK on Oct 27, 2016, 11:00:52 AM
Quote from: System Apollo on Oct 27, 2016, 08:51:51 AMUnderstandable, I merely was attributing that to the technique and not the overall impact. Unless you felt that it was not the case and if so could you elaborate?

Well I'd probably argue there was a lot in Prometheus that wan't sophisticated at all. Like the terribly weak aspects of the script.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Necronomicon II on Oct 27, 2016, 12:26:20 PM
Yeah total mixed bag lol I don't want to find uncooked eggplant in my bag of delicious candy delights.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: stroggificated on Oct 27, 2016, 03:01:35 PM
I'm just stopping by to see if anything has happened. All i feel is total indifference.

A movie about a creature who will look different to the Xenomorph, but in the movie's title there will be "Alien" in it. To be honest, i don't care. It's like Prometheus all again.

Well, tonight i will watch the movie "Stranded" with Christian Slater which sounds very similar to Alien. Alien Covenant is on the same level for me like Stranded or Prometheus. Just another sci fi horror movie with an hostile alien. Not "OUR" Alien.

It's like they would drastically change the Predator's design in the next movie just to make something different. The only predatorish on the movie would just be the title. It could be a Hirogen now as well. It's not "OUR" Predator anymore.

still waiting for a REAL Alien movie.  :(
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Oct 27, 2016, 03:03:34 PM
Quote from: stroggificated on Oct 27, 2016, 03:01:35 PM
A movie about a creature who will look different to the Xenomorph, but in the movie's title there will be "Alien" in it. To be honest, i don't care. It's like Prometheus all again.

There are traditional Aliens in it. There's just a brand new variation to go alongside them.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: 426Buddy on Oct 27, 2016, 03:15:03 PM
Personally, even with the issues prometheus had I greatly prefer this new direction to another AvP or another shabby alien movie like resurrection.

The series was going nowhere and had lost a lot of credibility, at least now we have a real effort to try something new with real talent behind the camera again.

Besides the original alien is suppose to be in this film as well.
Title: Re: The Neomorph?
Post by: LiquidMonster on Oct 27, 2016, 03:30:16 PM
Quote

Well, if that's the case then I hope the new design is actually the Alien design from the Covenant clapboard:

(https://media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/3036983-poster-p-2-hr-gigers-original-design-to-do-list-for-alien-was-awesomely-weird.jpg)

I'd love to see this design BADLY! It would explain nicely how the "Neomorphs" first had eye socket type areas on their skull and the evolution of it into our favorite Xeno in Alien. I'm probably in the minority but I hope they stay FAR AWAY from the Deacon design. It was an un-inspired, lazy, poorly executed, non-scary design.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: stroggificated on Oct 27, 2016, 03:39:11 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 27, 2016, 03:03:34 PM
There are traditional Aliens in it. There's just a brand new variation to go alongside them.

These traditional aliens aren't going to be the same like the Deacon from Prometheus? That's what i think that happens if Ridley Scott himself said this.  :-\

Quote from: 426Buddy on Oct 27, 2016, 03:15:03 PM
Personally, even with the issues prometheus had I greatly prefer this new direction to another AvP or another shabby alien movie like resurrection.

The series was going nowhere and had lost a lot of credibility, at least now we have a real effort to try something new with real talent behind the camera again.

On the other hand i'm relieved that Ridley Scott's movie series prevents Neill Blomkamp's real Alien movie, because it sounds to me like another Alien Resurrection. Not to forget all this stuff about erasing Alien3.....
You can't win as an Alien fan apparently. :D
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: BonesawT101 on Oct 27, 2016, 04:10:51 PM
I just want to go on record to say I think the info on the Neomorph creatures sounds great. I'm personally really looking forward to seeing them on screen. And with the news that the classic alien designs are also making a triumphant return to the silver screen I think we are in for a real proper epic Alien feast from one of the most visionary director's of our time, and one of the driving forces behind the original 79 film's success and longevity. I think we are in for a real treat.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: The Eighth Passenger on Oct 27, 2016, 04:41:13 PM
This then could quite possibly be the Neomorph's hand we're looking at here:

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/06072016_02.jpg)

Quote from: stroggificated on Oct 27, 2016, 03:39:11 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 27, 2016, 03:03:34 PM
There are traditional Aliens in it. There's just a brand new variation to go alongside them.

These traditional aliens aren't going to be the same like the Deacon from Prometheus? That's what i think that happens if Ridley Scott himself said this.  :-\

This is what Scott said:

Quote from: Ridley Scott"There was always this discussion: Is Alien, the character, the beast, played out or not? We'll have them all: egg, face-hugger, chest-burster, then the big chap. I think maybe we can go another round or two."

Quote from: stroggificated on Oct 27, 2016, 03:39:11 PM
On the other hand i'm relieved that Ridley Scott's movie series prevents Neill Blomkamp's real Alien movie, because it sounds to me like another Alien Resurrection.

delayed.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: System Apollo on Oct 27, 2016, 04:48:35 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Oct 27, 2016, 11:00:52 AM
Quote from: System Apollo on Oct 27, 2016, 08:51:51 AMUnderstandable, I merely was attributing that to the technique and not the overall impact. Unless you felt that it was not the case and if so could you elaborate?

Well I'd probably argue there was a lot in Prometheus that wan't sophisticated at all. Like the terribly weak aspects of the script.
I only called Alien sophisticated though. I personally felt that on a technical standpoint it did well. Script and pacing was another thing however.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: HuDaFuK on Oct 27, 2016, 05:18:32 PM
Oh I agree, from a technical standpoint it was excellent. It's a shame the story and characters didn't even come close to matching up.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: System Apollo on Oct 27, 2016, 05:26:50 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Oct 27, 2016, 05:18:32 PM
Oh I agree, from a technical standpoint it was excellent. It's a shame the story and characters didn't even come close to matching up.
Well, from the looks of it, it sounds like they are making a fresh start with Covenant. The Neomorph idea gives me the impression that it will be another rundown of questions with no answers and I really hope they don't use the whole "because of the black goo" all over again.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Kurai on Oct 27, 2016, 06:54:17 PM
Hicks, since you're our "in-man", do you happen to know whether Scott has a scientific advisor on Covenant like he had with the Martian? Prometheus suffered a lot because of "bad science" and foolish scientists but then Scott goes on to make the Martian which was pretty much hard sci-fi with a coat of cinematic fantasy to keep the plot flowing.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Oct 27, 2016, 08:35:01 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Oct 27, 2016, 04:41:13 PM
This then could quite possibly be the Neomorph's hand we're looking at here:

Given what we now know, that seems like a perfectly reasonable assumption.

Quote from: Kurai on Oct 27, 2016, 06:54:17 PM
Hicks, since you're our "in-man", do you happen to know whether Scott has a scientific advisor on Covenant like he had with the Martian? Prometheus suffered a lot because of "bad science" and foolish scientists but then Scott goes on to make the Martian which was pretty much hard sci-fi with a coat of cinematic fantasy to keep the plot flowing.

I don't know I'm afraid.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: System Apollo on Oct 27, 2016, 08:43:48 PM
Quote from: Kurai on Oct 27, 2016, 06:54:17 PM
Hicks, since you're our "in-man", do you happen to know whether Scott has a scientific advisor on Covenant like he had with the Martian? Prometheus suffered a lot because of "bad science" and foolish scientists but then Scott goes on to make the Martian which was pretty much hard sci-fi with a coat of cinematic fantasy to keep the plot flowing.
I kind of feel like a person whom runs on a playground telling children how Santa doesn't exist by saying this, but; all of the Alien films suffer from bad science. And what is with this "Fifield and Milburn are not realistic scientists" nonsense that is always considered one of the most critical aspects of the film? If anything Matt Damon's character as a botanist not realizing that there is no soil on Mars is a critical inaccuracy of its own yet it is overlooked because the plot needed the dust to act like soil. How he punctured a hole in his suit to propel himself like Iron Man was another big innaccuracy. Yet when a geologist gets lost or a biologist gets close to a specimen while high this is considered the largest sin in sci-fi history.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: HuDaFuK on Oct 27, 2016, 08:45:26 PM
Quote from: System Apollo on Oct 27, 2016, 08:43:48 PMAnd what is with this "Fifield and Milburn are not realistic scientists" nonsense that is always considered one of the most critical aspects of the film?

Because they're supposed to be expert scientists. That's literally the only reason they are brought along. So having them act like morons is ridiculous.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: System Apollo on Oct 27, 2016, 09:00:02 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Oct 27, 2016, 08:45:26 PM
Quote from: System Apollo on Oct 27, 2016, 08:43:48 PMAnd what is with this "Fifield and Milburn are not realistic scientists" nonsense that is always considered one of the most critical aspects of the film?

Because they're supposed to be expert scientists. That's literally the only reason they are brought along. So having them act like morons is ridiculous.
Okay then, why not take it back a step further and ask why Millburn was on the expedition when they knew the enviroment was inhospitable? Aside from picking up soil samples which anyone could have done in replacement of Milburn. Or how come Fifield was on the expedition when all that was needed from him was to press a button on two silly machines that do almost everything that was needed of him?
Expert scientists are exempt from behaving the way that they did? Under what precedent do we relate this to? This is why I can't actually take this critical aspect seriously, we're better off saying that they shouldn't have been there period.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Dangerous_D on Oct 27, 2016, 09:00:09 PM
I'm hoping that someone will be able to do the designs of the alien creature that HR Giger brought us, sadly these movies won't be the same without his artwork
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: HuDaFuK on Oct 27, 2016, 09:23:41 PM
Quote from: System Apollo on Oct 27, 2016, 09:00:02 PMOkay then, why not take it back a step further and ask why Millburn was on the expedition when they knew the enviroment was inhospitable?

Inhospitable to human life maybe.

Besides, they didn't know what the environment was until they got there.

Quote from: System Apollo on Oct 27, 2016, 09:00:02 PMOr how come Fifield was on the expedition when all that was needed from him was to press a button on two silly machines that do almost everything that was needed of him?

He was a geologist. Who knows what interesting extraterrestrial geology they might find and want to study?

There were perfectly good reasons to take a biologist and geologist along. In fact they're exactly the kind of people you would take on a mission like this. But the fact they were total morons undermines the believably of the whole thing.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Kurai on Oct 27, 2016, 09:38:08 PM
There's a difference between Science Fiction, where cinematic flair is used to propel the plot, and plain stupidity. The characters made incredibly unbelievable mistakes that easily lead to forehead slapping.

I'm normally one to defend Prometheus for its' failings but, it would be nice to know whether Ridley Scott took lessons learnt while making the Martian to heart. Prometheus was heavily criticized for its' depiction of science, the scientific method and common sense. Despite its' scientific failings, the Martian was critically acclaimed for its' "hard sci-fi" approach.

Having a scientific advisor on hand during script writing and filming can do nothing but help the film. Cinematics trumps science, but it's still nice to have science in a sci-fi.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: System Apollo on Oct 27, 2016, 09:47:10 PM
QuoteInhospitable to human life maybe.

Besides, they didn't know what the environment was until they got there.
Genuinely, this is the first thought that comes to mind in terms of Sci-Fi. But inhospitable to human life is generally looked at as all life considering that anything carbon based is likely to function similar to us in which hydrogen, nitrogen (maybe) and oxygen is a necessity. As for them not knowing doesn't excuse them stepping out for the expedition.

QuoteHe was a geologist. Who knows what interesting extraterrestrial geology they might find and want to study?

There were perfectly good reasons to take a biologist and geologist along. In fact they're exactly the kind of people you would take on a mission like this. But the fact they were total morons undermines the believably of the whole thing.
But to step out of the security of the ship and jump onto the terrain of an unknown planet to an unknown architecture which belongs to an unknown intelligent lifeform?

They could have easily just done their job within the confines of the ship but that didn't happen.

This is what does not make sense. Them acting moronic is just a distraction of an obviously bigger plot hole.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Dill-On on Oct 27, 2016, 10:02:50 PM
Wow, "ALIEN COVENANT" will be even worse than Prometheus, congratulations.
This thing looks like bottlenose dolphin.

>:(
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: System Apollo on Oct 27, 2016, 10:08:47 PM
Quote from: Dill-On on Oct 27, 2016, 10:02:50 PM
Wow, "ALIEN CONVENANT" will be even worse than Prometheus, congratulations.
This thing looks like bottlenose dolphin.

>:(
I feel that AVP will have a lot less to work with when Scott is finished.


Quote from: Kurai on Oct 27, 2016, 09:38:08 PM
There's a difference between Science Fiction, where cinematic flair is used to propel the plot, and plain stupidity. The characters made incredibly unbelievable mistakes that easily lead to forehead slapping.
Yet the plain stupidity was the cinematic flair needed to propel the plot in this circumstance. I understand what they did was stupid and unethical but believing that being stupid and unethical doesn't happen with expert scientists is just so inaccurate on so many different levels.

QuoteHaving a scientific advisor on hand during script writing and filming can do nothing but help the film. Cinematics trumps science, but it's still nice to have science in a sci-fi.
Agreed but it wouldn't save it.  :(
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Dill-On on Oct 27, 2016, 10:24:06 PM
QuoteI feel that AVP will have a lot less to work with when Scott is finished.

Totally.

I'm waiting for a good ALIEN movie since nineties.
For now I have a feeling that every next movie is worse than previous.
In my opinion they should change title to "Return of the Black Goo".

Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: whiterabbit on Oct 27, 2016, 10:31:11 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Oct 27, 2016, 08:45:26 PM
Quote from: System Apollo on Oct 27, 2016, 08:43:48 PMAnd what is with this "Fifield and Milburn are not realistic scientists" nonsense that is always considered one of the most critical aspects of the film?

Because they're supposed to be expert scientists. That's literally the only reason they are brought along. So having them act like morons is ridiculous.
Being an expert in a field doesn't mean having common sense. Maybe fifield has a phobia of living things. The dude said he loved rocks. Oh and Milburn was the crocodile hunter who couldn't help but play with danger. Also, no offense but have you seen the last couple of generations here on Earth at this very minute? Morons is polite.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Xenomorphine on Oct 27, 2016, 11:15:50 PM
Quote from: System Apollo on Oct 27, 2016, 08:43:48 PM
And what is with this "Fifield and Milburn are not realistic scientists" nonsense that is always considered one of the most critical aspects of the film?

Watch the entire thing:

Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: windebieste on Oct 27, 2016, 11:21:35 PM
I can accept that these characters have personalities,  they need that.  On the other I never saw any indication that either Fifield or Milburn were 'the best in their field'.  There's wasted opportunities throughout their screen time to provide us with evidence - but it never happens. 

Let's take the Geologist for example, because he's the easiest by a mile and more importantly, is presented with the earliest opportunity to demonstrate his professional capacity and validate his presence aboard the Prometheus.  During the descent to the surface, one of the characters (I forget who... Holloway?) comments on the markings on the surface of the planet and words to the effect 'Nature does not work on straight lines'.  How much more appropriate would it have been if the geologist made this remark?  ...or at the very least, AGREED?

Gone is also any parallel  we witness in 'ALIEN' where Ash analyses the surface using instrumentation and discusses the 'Rock lava base' composition of the planet they just landed on and its atmospheric conditions.  Wouldn't it be great if Prometheus' geologist actually offered some information based on his professional experience in a similar way? 

Then on the actual surface he does nothing.  NOTHING.  A BIG FAT NOTHING!!!  He doesn't comment on the mountain ranges.  He offers no advice on the integrity of the surface (for all we know, the surface could be soft, like pits of loose material and not safe to walk on).  He makes no comment about the obvious roads not being natural - or asked for his opinion on them.  He fails to pick up a single rock.  There's so many excellent opportunities for a geologist to demonstrate his capacity for such specialised knowledge - which is why he was aboard the Prometheus in the first place - but none of them are taken. 

I'm sorry, but if the character can't fulfill the expectations of his Profession - especially when he's reputed to be 'The Best in the Field' - then no amount of inane dialog such as "I love rocks" will help convince me he's adequately written as a character.  If during the approach to LV-233, Fifield had f**k all to do except look out the window and talk shit to other crew members simply because he's a planetside specialist; but then his demeanor change to a more professional one on close approach to the planet's surface when his knowledge kicks in, then yes.  That would be realistic.  That's how professional people do behave.  When the occasion arises, a Professional, in top of his game will put aside all other considerations and demonstrate his true worth.  We see none of that happen in 'Prometheus'.

Unfortunately, Fifield's character as we have it is in the wrong movie.  When a professional's dialog amounts to "I love rocks" and "I'm only in it for the money" then he would have been better placed in a movie like 'Idiocracy' rather than the symbolism laden background and existential investigations that 'Prometheus' attempts to deliver but is mired by inanities such as Fifield's character - and other stupid shit.

...Milburn is no different.  But for the sake of keeping this post at a decent length, you can apply the same prinicpals to him as well.  You'll find the results are more or less the same.   

-Windebieste.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: System Apollo on Oct 27, 2016, 11:31:23 PM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 27, 2016, 11:15:50 PM
Quote from: System Apollo on Oct 27, 2016, 08:43:48 PM
And what is with this "Fifield and Milburn are not realistic scientists" nonsense that is always considered one of the most critical aspects of the film?

Watch the entire thing:


Already seen it. Once again I stand by my statement that the scene was a distraction from a larger plot hole.
Do you have a video that goes through Alien? I always wanted to see Alien picked apart for inaccuracies.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: fiveways on Oct 28, 2016, 12:33:54 AM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Oct 27, 2016, 08:45:26 PM
Quote from: System Apollo on Oct 27, 2016, 08:43:48 PMAnd what is with this "Fifield and Milburn are not realistic scientists" nonsense that is always considered one of the most critical aspects of the film?

Because they're supposed to be expert scientists. That's literally the only reason they are brought along. So having them act like morons is ridiculous.

I always felt if you add in the deleted scenes they work better as characters since they provide at least a touch of justification for their actions.  They still work shit as scientists, but for me I am not sure that matters as I am firmly on the "don't let science get in the way of telling a good story" side of the argument.  Not that Prometheus is a great story, still..

Prometheus's main fault was really really shitty editing and them moving around scenes late in the day.  It feels like a most constructed mostly in post.  There is actually a really good movie in there, you can see traces of it when you re-watch it.  I need to sit down with the fan edits sometime.  I also don't know how much control Scott had of the editing stage.  The way most of the action sequences looked to play out, it was gonna be first half mood, second half action beats like the original Alien.  Does Fox think a movie with that kinda budget would sell in 2012 or did they move scenes around the have something exciting happen every 10 minutes to "keep the audiences attention" (as we all know studios really get off on talking down to their audience in 201X.  I also understand that maybe these cues play better to certain international markets)

The script writer should have been consulting with an expert on what they would do on an alien planet.  What they would point out.  This is why you hired science consultants.  Just, no one cared.  They are fodder to move the story forward, and I am typically ok with that is you set up and justify their insane actions at least a touch.

The other factor is writing scientists as scientist doesn't put asses in the seats.  In the end the market that cares about that is an insanely small fraction of the movie going populous.  I often wonder if writers are actively told to avoid these sorts of things.  Like if it is on a list of producers notes they have during re-write time.  We often forget that when a re-write comes it carries a set of demands from various people involved with the production with it.  Often these ideas are completely insane egomaniac pieces so people can feel like the have actively given to the film. 

You can also make a convincing argument that Prometheus had way too many characters with screen time, and a lot of those could have been severely downplayed to make more room for plot.  Easily half the scientist could have become grunts and no one would have noticed, sadly in my opinion the captain couple and the entire crew could fall into the remove pile (to me, other i know will disagree).  More time could have been spent with the core group of characters and getting to know them, and just use the rest as goo bait and monster fodder.

I am still looking forward to the new designs and new ideas.  Honestly, it can't be worse than Alien: Resurrection, or either of the AVP movies.  I have passing faith in the film being at least a fun sci-fi horror romp, and really that is all i want out of it.  I don't expect to see another "Alien" being produced by a major studio in my lifetime.  Maybe something indie will catch that vibe sometimes.  Just, Hollywood doesn't make those movies, and hasn't in a very long time.  If the reported 150-200 million dollar budget is true, than zero risks will be taken. Still, I am keen on seeing the new designs in motion (I'm trying to bring this back to the subject the thread is on as we are all gloriously off topic)
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: BishopShouldGo on Oct 28, 2016, 12:40:56 AM
The movie sounds like a risk to me. Dark, gory, R-rated, no stars(not even Fassbender), expensive. It has the Alien name and Ridley to ride off of.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: SiL on Oct 28, 2016, 12:42:45 AM
Fassbender is a star.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: System Apollo on Oct 28, 2016, 12:56:51 AM
QuoteI often wonder if writers are actively told to avoid these sorts of things.  Like if it is on a list of producers notes they have during re-write time.  We often forget that when a re-write comes it carries a set of demands from various people involved with the production with it.  Often these ideas are completely insane egomaniac pieces so people can feel like the have actively given to the film. 

You are spot on. Producers are difficult to work with and your egocentric comment really takes it home. That is precisely what studios do if not checked by someone with a central vision.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Pvt. Himmel on Oct 28, 2016, 01:02:31 AM
I wonder if Fassie caught hell from Ridley for the slip of the tongue?? :laugh:
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: 426Buddy on Oct 28, 2016, 03:06:27 AM
Quote from: BishopShouldGo on Oct 28, 2016, 12:40:56 AM
The movie sounds like a risk to me. Dark, gory, R-rated, no stars(not even Fassbender), expensive. It has the Alien name and Ridley to ride off of.

All that sounds great to me.

But Fassbender is a star.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Necronomicon II on Oct 28, 2016, 04:47:48 AM
This is not a defence of their characterisations, but I don't think it follows that Milburn or Fifield were the best in their fields as I don't think any credible Scientist would accept an invitation to travel light-years into space without a single inkling as to why, no matter how handsomely they were payed in advance.
Ideally you would want nothing but the best in their field, but lest we forget the whole expedition was funded  by a dying megalomaniac in a desperate bid to extend his life so time was of the essence, corners were cut. Come to think of it, Weyland is like...Mr. Burns lol

Again, it would have been MUCH better if they were more credible as far as audience investment goes, as there are several intelligent ways to portray human foolishness and hubris without characters just acting like utter morons, regardless if that was a deliberate scripting choice.
And I don't think anyone wanted a dark-comedy per se. I can overlook most of it because Fassbender is just so good in every scene, and being juxtaposed against human morons makes him all the more sympathetic. Frankly he should have been the main character. 


Re the Martian and Watney not knowing Mars had soil, I don't quite follow, the book does go into much more detail but he knew exactly what he needed to do to make viable biomass via Martian soil, such as leaching out the perchlorates in the soil and separating them from the water.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: System Apollo on Oct 28, 2016, 05:37:08 AM
Quote from: Necronomicon II on Oct 28, 2016, 04:47:48 AM
This is not a defence of their characterisations, but I don't think it follows that Milburn or Fifield were the best in their fields as I don't think any credible Scientist would accept an invitation to travel light-years into space without a single inkling as to why, no matter how handsomely they were payed in advance.
Ideally you would want nothing but the best in their field, but lest we forget the whole expedition was funded  by a dying megalomaniac in a desperate bid to extend his life so time was of the essence, corners were cut. Come to think of it, Weyland is like...Mr. Burns lol

Again, it would have been MUCH better if they were more credible as far as audience investment goes, as there are several intelligent ways to portray human foolishness and hubris without characters just acting like utter morons, regardless if that was a deliberate scripting choice.
And I don't think anyone wanted a dark-comedy per se. I can overlook most of it because Fassbender is just so good in every scene, and being juxtaposed against human morons makes him all the more sympathetic. Frankly he should have been the main character. 


Re the Martian and Watney not knowing Mars had soil, I don't quite follow, the book does go into much more detail but he knew exactly what he needed to do to make viable biomass via Martian soil, such as leaching out the perchlorates in the soil and separating them from the water.
FIRST PARAGRAPH:
Precisely, what do we know of the scientists beyond them being claimed they were the top in their field? Why would these scientists accept an offer to travel in a spaceship for a job they know nothing of? Sounds desperate and if you were top in your field you would not be desperate.

SECOND PARAGRAPH
That is why I consider weighing the film down based on Fifield and Milburn's incident as nonsense. It did not make sense in the grand scheme of things to begin with.

THIRD PARAGRAPH:
And then substituting the needed fertalizer with his own shit?
He also would have needed to extract suitable soil from dust.
Soil which is generally rare on Mars.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Necronomicon II on Oct 28, 2016, 06:02:31 AM
Yeah human faeces is a stretch but it's still plausible, because to paraphrase Andy Weir the crew's waste was completely desiccated, freeze-dried, and then dumped out on the surface of Mars and bagged, any pathogens in there would have been dead. Yeah it would certainly prove a difficult process, but Martian soil differs mostly with terrestrial soil in the amount of perchlorates, and its pH is a basic 8.3.
Plenty of Scientists have fact-checked it and it falls within the bounds of plausibility.   
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: HuDaFuK on Oct 28, 2016, 09:24:21 AM
Quote from: System Apollo on Oct 27, 2016, 09:47:10 PMAs for them not knowing doesn't excuse them stepping out for the expedition.

They had suits to deal with an inhospitable stratosphere.

The stupidity starts when everyone brazenly takes their helmet off for the lulz.

Quote from: System Apollo on Oct 27, 2016, 09:47:10 PMBut to step out of the security of the ship and jump onto the terrain of an unknown planet to an unknown architecture which belongs to an unknown intelligent lifeform?

Potentially risky exploration is how most of the world was discovered. There's a big jump from that to petting a hitherto undiscovered alien lifeform that's seemingly acting aggressively because you think it's cute. Especially if your supposed to be an expert in fauna.

One is a hazard of the job, the other is going out of your way to be an idiot.

Quote from: System Apollo on Oct 27, 2016, 10:08:47 PMYet the plain stupidity was the cinematic flair needed to propel the plot in this circumstance.

No, relying on characters making unrealistically moronic decisions to propel the plot is simply bad plotting.

Alien managed to achieve what it wanted without ever inducing the audience to scream, "Why are you such a f*cking moron?!" at the screen.

It's not that they characters are dumb, it's that they're so dumb I can't believe for even one moment that you'd spend millions, billions, trillions on sending an expedition to the farthest reaches of known space to potentially make first contact with intelligent alien life, and then crew the ship with such a bunch of retards. It completely undermines the entire movie for me.

I mean, the crew of the Nostromo were exponentially smarter than these guys and they were just blue-collar truckers.

Quote from: fiveways on Oct 28, 2016, 12:33:54 AMI always felt if you add in the deleted scenes they work better as characters since they provide at least a touch of justification for their actions.

This. Unfortunately by deleting all of those moments the scientists come across as utterly incompetent f*ckwits.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Johnny Handsome on Oct 28, 2016, 10:16:29 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2016, 12:42:45 AM
Fassbender is a star.
He is a damn fine actor and all, but besides X-Men everything he's been in the last years tanked pretty hard.

Star? Maybe
Box office draw? Absolutely no.

In that aspect, BishopShouldGo is absolutely right.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Whiskeybrewer on Oct 28, 2016, 10:48:15 AM
Quote from: Himmelblau on Oct 28, 2016, 01:02:31 AM
I wonder if Fassie caught hell from Ridley for the slip of the tongue?? :laugh:

Probably got his head ripped off again lol
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Oct 28, 2016, 10:57:34 AM
Quote from: Whiskeybrewer on Oct 28, 2016, 10:48:15 AM
Quote from: Himmelblau on Oct 28, 2016, 01:02:31 AM
I wonder if Fassie caught hell from Ridley for the slip of the tongue?? :laugh:

Probably got his head ripped off again lol

It wouldn't have been so bad had we not known about the name and some details from the film. lol. On it's own, it's an innocent enough thing to just let slip.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: fiveways on Oct 28, 2016, 04:03:21 PM
Quote from: System Apollo on Oct 28, 2016, 12:56:51 AM
QuoteI often wonder if writers are actively told to avoid these sorts of things.  Like if it is on a list of producers notes they have during re-write time.  We often forget that when a re-write comes it carries a set of demands from various people involved with the production with it.  Often these ideas are completely insane egomaniac pieces so people can feel like the have actively given to the film. 

You are spot on. Producers are difficult to work with and your egocentric comment really takes it home. That is precisely what studios do if not checked by someone with a central vision.

The question is at what budget point does a singular creative force get overridden?  If you asked me when i wrote my original post late last night I would have had a different answer heh.

After the leaks today, I am sure Scott is getting 100% reign on this production.  Last time we all know that they were gunning for a PG-13 and missed due to one scene (why they didn't edit back in stuff after failing to get that rating I will never understand, like the Shaw/Engineer showdown).  Thank god for Deadpool showing FOX that Hard R movies still have a market and make money.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: The Eighth Passenger on Oct 28, 2016, 04:22:15 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 28, 2016, 10:57:34 AM
Quote from: Whiskeybrewer on Oct 28, 2016, 10:48:15 AM
Quote from: Himmelblau on Oct 28, 2016, 01:02:31 AM
I wonder if Fassie caught hell from Ridley for the slip of the tongue?? :laugh:

Probably got his head ripped off again lol

It wouldn't have been so bad had we not known about the name and some details from the film. lol. On it's own, it's an innocent enough thing to just let slip.

Agreed, Fassbender just slipped a name that's all. Although I saw some places reporting that Fassbender gave away all those details that you actually dug-up.

Anyway, Riddles and Fassie are thick as thieves. I really don't think he would have copped any flack for that little slip.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Oct 28, 2016, 05:01:12 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Oct 28, 2016, 04:22:15 PM
Agreed, Fassbender just slipped a name that's all. Although I saw some places reporting that Fassbender gave away all those details that you actually dug-up.

Quite a few places did. Is it that hard to actually read the f**king information. This is one of the big problems I have with Internet coverage. No-one f**king reads what they're actually reporting on.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: System Apollo on Oct 28, 2016, 06:50:35 PM
QuoteThey had suits to deal with an inhospitable stratosphere.
Which someone whom specializes in extracting samples from the field could have wore in replacement of Milburn. Once again, machines that just needed their buttons pushed was Fifield's only job... Why was he there?




QuotePotentially risky exploration is how most of the world was discovered. There's a big jump from that to petting a hitherto undiscovered alien lifeform that's seemingly acting aggressively because you think it's cute. Especially if your supposed to be an expert in fauna.

One is a hazard of the job, the other is going out of your way to be an idiot.

Well, yeah; except putting yourself in a hazard when you have the resources to avoid the hazard is foolish within its own merrit.

Quote from: System Apollo on Oct 27, 2016, 10:08:47 PMYet the plain stupidity was the cinematic flair needed to propel the plot in this circumstance.

QuoteNo, relying on characters making unrealistically moronic decisions to propel the plot is simply bad plotting.
You're disagreeing with me yet you paraphrased the statement I made...  ???

QuoteAlien managed to achieve what it wanted without ever inducing the audience to scream, "Why are you such a f*cking moron?!" at the screen.
That is highly debatable. I always felt that there were many moments in Alien that induced that type of impression.


QuoteIt's not that they characters are dumb, it's that they're so dumb I can't believe for even one moment that you'd spend millions, billions, trillions on sending an expedition to the farthest reaches of known space to potentially make first contact with intelligent alien life, and then crew the ship with such a bunch of retards. It completely undermines the entire movie for me.
I can understand this sentiment. I notice you use words like dumb and retarded to convey your perspective, is Prometheus that infuriating for you?  How do you feel about the upcoming installment?

QuoteThe question is at what budget point does a singular creative force get overridden?  If you asked me when i wrote my original post late last night I would have had a different answer heh.
That's a good question! I don't know much of the business in film but I could tell you what I do know of executive concepts in the business world and how it could be relatable to film in some way. First we look at a film much as if it were any other standard business project, for example; a restaurant, salon, attorney's office, etc. Second we are looking at the objective of the project: make large amounts of money based on a situational opportunity or establish a running franchise. When capitalizing on situational opportunities you'll find that executive branches (producers in this case) would often step back and be more sensitive with the visionary (directors) directing the project in not to disrupt the chances of success. With a running franchise however, executives tend to take more initiative as the investment and the goals are too grand to risk the price of failure. With that beind said, the more promising the project is, the more larger the pool of investors which in turn creates a larger executive share.

Seldom scenarios that arise of this are usually when the amount of shareholders are too many and they really need to rely on the direction of the visionary as to eliminate too much contrary directions; the other is when a visionary is well distinguished and well recognized that they themselves are part of the budget.

So to better answer your question, it is not a point in budget rather a point in capacity that determines whether a singular creative authority no longer becomes feasible and this usually is more prevalent when you have a smaller pool of executives.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 28, 2016, 05:01:12 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Oct 28, 2016, 04:22:15 PM
Agreed, Fassbender just slipped a name that's all. Although I saw some places reporting that Fassbender gave away all those details that you actually dug-up.

Quite a few places did. Is it that hard to actually read the f**king information. This is one of the big problems I have with Internet coverage. No-one f**king reads what they're actually reporting on.

Reminds me of the nightmare I had to go through with GAvP.  :laugh:
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: JokersWarPig on Oct 28, 2016, 09:35:28 PM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Oct 24, 2016, 09:41:01 AM
Well Ridley did say you'll see everything from Big Chap but he never actually mentioned the facehugger part. Maybe Ridley is going to move away from the Cameron Canon and go into his own somewhat retroactive direction.

So we're gonna have 3 different cannons? The original one, Ridley's, and Blomkamps.
I don't know whose signature here says "Cannon is like...your opinion man" featuring a picture of his dudeness, but I think that's a saying we're going to have to go by with all these different movies doing different things.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: fiveways on Oct 28, 2016, 11:17:27 PM
Quote from: System Apollo on Oct 28, 2016, 06:50:35 PM


QuoteThe question is at what budget point does a singular creative force get overridden?  If you asked me when i wrote my original post late last night I would have had a different answer heh.
That's a good question! I don't know much of the business in film but I could tell you what I do know of executive concepts in the business world and how it could be relatable to film in some way. First we look at a film much as if it were any other standard business project, for example; a restaurant, salon, attorney's office, etc. Second we are looking at the objective of the project: make large amounts of money based on a situational opportunity or establish a running franchise. When capitalizing on situational opportunities you'll find that executive branches (producers in this case) would often step back and be more sensitive with the visionary (directors) directing the project in not to disrupt the chances of success. With a running franchise however, executives tend to take more initiative as the investment and the goals are too grand to risk the price of failure. With that beind said, the more promising the project is, the more larger the pool of investors which in turn creates a larger executive share.

Seldom scenarios that arise of this are usually when the amount of shareholders are too many and they really need to rely on the direction of the visionary as to eliminate too much contrary directions; the other is when a visionary is well distinguished and well recognized that they themselves are part of the budget.

So to better answer your question, it is not a point in budget rather a point in capacity that determines whether a singular creative authority no longer becomes feasible and this usually is more prevalent when you have a smaller pool of executives.


https://www.amazon.com/Tales-Development-Hell-Greatest-Movies/dp/0857687239

https://www.amazon.ca/Greatest-Sci-fi-Movies-Revised-Updated/dp/1845767551

Have a read through these two books (they are also super fun reads).  Hollywood is unlike any logical business on earth.  You can read as entire film projects are tanked and millions of dollars lost because Producers refused to let go of the stupidest of ideas.  Ideas that appeal to no one, but they refuse to let go of and sunk the entire ship.  It's basically a group of alpha personalities all wanting to be pleasured without giving up an inch of space.  Bizarre f**ked up world.

The idea of trusting the director when out in the 1970's.  This is why the directors age of Hollywood ended and the Producers age began.  Singular vision in Hollywood hasn't always been profitable. Producer cut of Brazil is a great example.  Lots of questionable edits and re-creations in the editing room with the director not involved.  Fox funny enough has a recent entry on this track record of late stage re-shoots and re-edits (The last Fantastic Four movie, which if you have seen is a f**king disaster of tone because it is clear there are many different minds at work on it).

So far this appear to be unf**ked with.  The set images from today give me a ton more faith than I had last night.  I was waiting to hear stories of struggles between both parties.  Nice to see they are letting Scott tell the story he wants to tell.  Huge risk as well, since they have a lot of money riding on a really abstract franchise for Hollywood.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: The Bonus Situation on Oct 29, 2016, 12:37:17 AM
System Apollo I couldn't agree with you more. Certain people just LOVE bashing Prometheus, because Milburne got so close to the Hamerpede, yet none of them is complaining how silly it was when Kane stuck his WHOLE damn face inside the ovomorph. Thats what makes these movies great, because it is Science Fiction and not Science Fact. They're just filled whith unrealistic ideas, characters and concepts like artificial gravity in multi-deck space ships already in like the early 2100s, given where we are at now technologically, I doubt we'll have ships like that by the early 2100s; atmosphere processors - how does that even work?; prison complexes the size of a city with only 22 prisoners and a staff member with IQ below average; Fifield mapping the cave tunnels and then getting lost in them - thats what makes these movies fun, because 1) it is just a movie 2) it is Science FICTION.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Scorpio on Oct 29, 2016, 01:40:27 AM
Quote from: The Bonus Situation on Oct 29, 2016, 12:37:17 AM
System Apollo I couldn't agree with you more. Certain people just LOVE bashing Prometheus, because Milburne got so close to the Hamerpede, yet none of them is complaining how silly it was when Kane stuck his WHOLE damn face inside the ovomorph. Thats what makes these movies great, because it is Science Fiction and not Science Fact. They're just filled whith unrealistic ideas, characters and concepts like artificial gravity in multi-deck space ships already in like the early 2100s, given where we are at now technologically, I doubt we'll have ships like that by the early 2100s; atmosphere processors - how does that even work?; prison complexes the size of a city with only 22 prisoners and a staff member with IQ below average; Fifield mapping the cave tunnels and then getting lost in them - thats what makes these movies fun, because 1) it is just a movie 2) it is Science FICTION.

Kane was the most eager to explore the derelict, so it was definitely in character that he would look in the egg.  Curiosity got the better of him.  Same with Milburn I suppose.

Oh, and the prison complex housed more, but it was shut down for some reason but a small number elected to stay behind.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: System Apollo on Oct 29, 2016, 02:33:30 AM
@Fiveways
Just purchased Tales from Development Hell via your link. Thank you for the recommendation. I fully agree, producers have taken more authority and I think that it is partly due to how large production for films have been going these days.

I am not too zealous of the Neomorph design just yet but I still need to see Covenant before I formulate any concrete resentments just yet.

@The Bonus Situation
Definitely! I once knew a biologist whom hated Alien and felt that the lifecycle was so inaccurate that they couldn't enjoy it. Rather ironic  :laugh:
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: fiveways on Oct 29, 2016, 03:15:11 AM
Quote from: System Apollo on Oct 29, 2016, 02:33:30 AM
@Fiveways
Just purchased Tales from Development Hell via your link. Thank you for the recommendation. I fully agree, producers have taken more authority and I think that it is partly due to how large production for films have been going these days.


Hope you enjoy it man.  Honestly I have read both of them a few times and always get a kick out of them.  Quick weekend read (I kindled Development hell and by the time i was done my amazon package arrived). 
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: integer3 on Nov 18, 2016, 04:49:41 AM
Clue

Ovo (Egg) + Morph (Form) = Ovomorph (Egg Form)

Xeno (Unknown) + Morph (Form) = Xenomorph (Unknown Form)

Orginal Documented Strain. May Possibly be Progenitor Strain or Cultivated/Mutated Strain. Form veries From Host physiology.

Ultra (Ultimate) + Morph (Form) = Ultramorph (Ultimate Form)

Perfect Strain, Ultimate Lifeform, flawless Physiology, and a Complete Organism

Neo (New) + Morph (Form) = Neomorph (New Form)

New Strain judging from description posibly artificially created and genetically modified strain or evolution.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Pvt. Himmel on Nov 25, 2016, 06:29:36 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alienhive.pl%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F10%2Fneomorph-neomorf.jpg&hash=9902b133f4c77e120cc7f4fae31cc6e08ebf6bd9)
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Nov 25, 2016, 07:05:06 PM
Prometheus concept by Ivan Manzella.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Pvt. Himmel on Nov 25, 2016, 07:14:36 PM
Yes but isn't creeptastic.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Necronomicon II on Nov 26, 2016, 03:50:09 AM
Depends on how it's portrayed, that blob-like, transparent xeno in the Spaihts script; dripping out of grated vents, that would be insanely creepy.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Omegamorph on Nov 26, 2016, 09:09:33 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 25, 2016, 07:05:06 PM
Prometheus concept by Ivan Manzella.
I think that's Huante's style...?
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Nov 26, 2016, 03:33:16 PM
I thought so too but Reverse Search reckoned it was Manzella.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Omegamorph on Nov 26, 2016, 03:44:02 PM
Nope, Huante:

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fbf6BF.png&hash=7df0839ab079421170859738c32024f6ef8ea229)

Signature on the lower right
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Enoch on Nov 26, 2016, 05:26:25 PM
That is definitely Carlos Huante.
He has that distinctive style and use of colors.

(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/55700995e4b004b17331e6c5/55700ab2e4b02df4ffd62758/55700cc0e4b02b5724df0a16/1433406659760/Engineer-+7c.jpg?format=750w) (https://static1.squarespace.com/static/55700995e4b004b17331e6c5/55700ab2e4b02df4ffd62758/55700cf7e4b09d6f4aba18c8/1433406714539/Engineer-+6b.jpg?format=500w)

Huante, Engineer concepts... (obviously unused ;))


(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-D99SnesjYCI%2FU6AwgZG_8NI%2FAAAAAAAALvs%2Fn8lSIKLEb-4%2Fs1600%2Fbelugahead%2Bexperiment.jpg&hash=42b4da57a2b6e33a643f40969f1919add5a6f11e)

I like this one... dont know why... but its kinda interesting...
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Nov 26, 2016, 06:34:35 PM
Quote from: Omegamorph on Nov 26, 2016, 03:44:02 PM
Nope, Huante:

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fbf6BF.png&hash=7df0839ab079421170859738c32024f6ef8ea229)

Signature on the lower right

Fair enough.  I thought it was odd. I blame Google.  :laugh:
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: BonesawT101 on Nov 26, 2016, 07:58:24 PM
It'll be interesting to see how the Neomorph creatures are presented in the film. I'm guessing they'll feature earlier in the film than the big bad in the final act, which I'm thinking will be the classic alien/alien from the latest poster.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Pvt. Himmel on Nov 26, 2016, 11:20:53 PM
You maybe right. now if only a certain someone can do a little digging and find when trailer may drop. ;)
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: acrediblesource on Nov 27, 2016, 02:27:27 AM
Well the egg was introduced in the beginning of alien yet the poster design shows it just like the latest A:C poster. Chances are likely that the big guy will come in either early in the film as is, or maybe its just a brief spot.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: SamuelDL on Nov 28, 2016, 07:47:23 AM
In the making of Prometheus you can see designs of the "neomorphs" with the style of the classic Alien:

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FpaNJA1w.jpg&hash=eb2cfa647f908b432f998cacfafb4b749ec91cef)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F2jwtKaX.jpg&hash=eba84a64d05f119fde3f4ad039cde60b8fa1c270)


What design do you prefer? This, or the sharp one with the shitty teeth?
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: HuDaFuK on Nov 28, 2016, 09:36:32 AM
That's likely just head concepts for the Ultramorph, the Alien born form an Engineer in the original script.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Nov 28, 2016, 10:42:22 AM
Ridley will no doubt we recycling quite a few elements from Prometheus though. Maybe not exactly but I imagine they'll be used as springboards.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Necronomicon II on Nov 28, 2016, 11:37:24 AM
Jesus those ultramorphs were beautiful.
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: lv_226 on Dec 09, 2016, 06:27:51 PM
I'd say AVPG is a safe bet, I don't know about that other one...
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Ingwar on Dec 10, 2016, 07:02:55 PM
Fan art.

(https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s640x640/sh0.08/e35/13150880_1707454629542388_418358664_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTI0MzIxNjYyOTcyNzg5MjM3NQ%3D%3D.2.l)
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Infected on Dec 10, 2016, 10:28:58 PM
Quote from: Ingwar on Dec 10, 2016, 07:02:55 PM
Fan art.

(https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s640x640/sh0.08/e35/13150880_1707454629542388_418358664_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTI0MzIxNjYyOTcyNzg5MjM3NQ%3D%3D.2.l)
If you knew you gonna face this guy or multiple of these, how many guns would you bring to the party, i would say a lot,
imagine not having one gun at hand and facing these guys, RUN would exactly be my first thought!!!
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Ragonk_Force on Dec 11, 2016, 03:16:47 AM
This is absolutely awesome. Scary as hell and true to the aesthetic. I really hope this design makes it in the movie

Quote from: Omegamorph on Nov 26, 2016, 03:44:02 PM
Nope, Huante:

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fbf6BF.png&hash=7df0839ab079421170859738c32024f6ef8ea229)

Signature on the lower right
Title: Re: The Neomorphs
Post by: Xenomorphine on Dec 11, 2016, 05:07:09 AM
Ultramorph concept art always reminds me too much of Doctor Finkelstein, from 'The Nightmare Before Christmas' - but especially so at this time of the year.