Ridley Scott Talks Beginning of Alien: Covenant

Started by Corporal Hicks, Mar 15, 2017, 04:11:22 PM

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Ridley Scott Talks Beginning of Alien: Covenant (Read 17,670 times)

Mustangjeff

I've always thought that biomechanical wasn't the best term for Giger's work.  The definition is not organic + mechanical.  It's the structure and functions (movement) of biological systems.   I'm not really sure what you would call an organism that is totally biological, but the biological traits were derived from a mechanical system.

CainsSon

CainsSon

#31
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 16, 2017, 02:55:27 AM
There's no evidence to say the Alien literally had metal teeth and there are plenty of animals which use acid as internal body fluids. We're actually one of them - stomach acid. Like I said, go and look up electron microscope images of insects and arachnids and such. They look just as machine-like in appearance, even down to tubes.

I don't regard the Nostromo's computer as protecting anything. It's got need-to-know orders, sure, but that's not the same thing as what Ash was doing. It's an automoton and is just following its programmed directives.

As for Weyland calling a David 8 his son, he essentially did that in the first film, too. He even clarified it as terming it "the closest thing" he had to an actual son, proving it was no different to any other engineer/creation thing. You have shipbuilders calling their boats affectionat enames, too. It doesn't mean they've physically got organic material stuffed in there. :)

Keep in mind, also, that there were a lot of David 8s out there. They were a mass-produced commercial venture.
The OP quotes the Production Designer of the films as saying:
"Alien vs. Predator Galaxy can clarify that the intent of this scene is that David is responsible for the creation of these particular eggs.  The origins of the Alien species as a whole is not explained in any clear cut manner. As has been noted in several of the recent set reports the Aliens in this film have a deliberate lack of biomechanical in the design because, as Production Designer Chris Seagers explained, "we're sort of edging into that."

I dont understand why we're having this dialogue. I didn't write the material. Its no more a matter of opinion that the Alien is biomechanical than it is that I am biological or a car is mechanical. Its not my fault that this stuff isnt the way you thought it appeared to be. I dont understand why you read less into it. It appears the way it is meant to be understood. Why shouldn't it? Why should we look at a car and say, "It's only aesthetically a machine." This would be even stranger if it occurred in a film with no indication that it should be questioned. In this case the BIOMECHANICS are the draw. They are what makes the creature interesting in Alien.
Again, I didnt write it.
The Alien is biomechanical. The Art Director of the films and Ridley Scott himself have said this is where its going. They have deliberately taken the mechanical element out to make this creature different from the biomechanical BIG CHAP.

We have even heard that the Alien is now able to
Spoiler
communicate with the ship and David?
[close]
Though Im not sure if that came from the 4chan guy, i don't remember.

Acidic stomach acid to break down food is not the same thing as having molecular acid for blood that can burn through reinforced steel but not whatever you are using for skin. The Alien doesn't have an Exoskeleton apart from its dome on its head.

It hides in machinery and blends in with it NOT BY changing its looks but because it was literally made by the designer to be made of the same materials.

As for the rest, I think you are confusing what Im saying is subtext with what Im saying is text. The ship 'Mother's' the Alien SUBTEXTUALLY, not literally (although now it may end up being literal if the rumor was true about it communicating with the ship.). Im also saying the same thing you are about David and Weyland. He considers him a son, and has modeled his looks off his DNA. This is why Vickers and David appear to be related. I hope David has no part of Weyland in him.

I would also argue that the sequels after alien systematically show the creature losing its biomechanical traits.


Quote from: Mustangjeff on Mar 16, 2017, 03:13:21 AM
I've always thought that biomechanical wasn't the best term for Giger's work.  The definition is not organic + mechanical.  It's the structure and functions (movement) of biological systems.   I'm not really sure what you would call an organism that is totally biological, but the biological traits were derived from a mechanical system.

Metal is organic everything physical in the universe is organic if you mean its formed of elements and stuff. Metal isnt just a solid lump its an intricate design of so much more hence Liquid metal mercury (something that can be solid and liquid at the same time). Is it possible for fleshy cell like matter to be connected in unison with metalic technological matter. In human terms 2012 A.D no way but if your a superior race with 1 billion years of technology behind you Peace of cake. Its like going back 2000 years to guys giving sermons on mounts with clay tablets and saying to them you can show them how to give sermons on mounts with liquid crystal high res graphic ipads, they would look at you and go "how the hell did that get built" your answer "2000 years of research" Biotech, Nano tech is the ability to crack open a molecule and reprogram it so that instead of a cells producing a body that just fleshy it could produce a body with sulphuric blood, metallic parts ingrained in its flesh and so forth, its beyond our thinking today but in 2000 years will be a peace of cake.


Xenoscream

Urgh Ridley comes across as so arrogant sometimes - if you have to tell someone how f**king smart something is, chances are, it's not that smart.

I fully expect David to be some other explored immortality device for Weyland, which would be a retcon and hugely unoriginal.

Let's hope I'm wrong though.

7Xenos

David calling OMW "father" might add a new element to the was Vickers human or a synth debate. I like the Blade Runner inspired theory that she is a synth, but doesn't know it ,which is why she feels the need to wear a space suit in order to breath on LV-223.

newagescamartist

So much negativity. If Covenant delivers what Scott is saying it's going to deliver, the Alien series will probably be head and shoulders the best film series of all time. Prometheus, Alien, and Aliens are already top 10 sci-fi in my book. If Covenant joins them, it's going to be a compelling argument. Another reason I think this series is so important is because of the subtext. These movies are telling us something about human reality that most people aren't picking up on. I'm not going to bother explaining it right now, it's almost 4 in the morning, but it's actually pretty mind blowing how covert yet in your face the Alien movies are when it concerns mirroring the real world. Don't be surprised if it's explained somewhere in this prequel series that xenomorphs, deacons, and all the creatures made from catalyst material contain silicon in combination with carbon. Or maybe David will combine the beast with some type of silicon. I don't know. Late night speculation.

zoidy

@newagescamartist

Completely agree, actually I find the negativity quite funny to be honest. Covenant will be an excellent film and will be up there with Alien and Prometheus as some of the finest sci-fi/horror films ever made. It simply cannot be everything every fan wants, however. All Scott CAN do is make the film he wants to make. And I will be very happy with it.

The absolute best comments are those attacking Scott for *gasp* SAYING STUFF to promote his movie! What was he thinking?!  ;D

Xenoscream

I don't want to come across as negative, I have high hopes for the film, but I haven't forgotten Prometheus and all the things that Scott said about that. Was there anything "smart" in that film?

Don't get me wrong, I love Ridley he is a true artist and his visuals are second to none, he made my favourite movie of all time but when it comes his track record of what he says vs what is the actual outcome I've become cautious.

Pauli

Pauli

#37
How far would Alien: Covenant have to go to really annoy you as a Alien fan ?

markweatherill

Let's see if David's utterance of 'father' resonates at all with Vickers' line in Prometheus.

It's like poetry, it rhymes!

RabidNinja

"Scott promises this sequence will "really get people going because it's f**king smart for a change."

God i hope he delivers

prometheusfire08

prometheusfire08

#40
there is a species of worm in our oceans that uses its second inner mouth to hammer it's way into wale bones .

it secretes acid from its skin to break down the bones and then reabsorbes the nutrients etc etc through its skin .

it then lays LOTS of eggs .


totally reminds me of the scene lambert Dallas and Kane walk into with the derilict


I got nothing to say about that!

Xenomorphine

Xenomorphine

#41
Quote from: CainsSon on Mar 16, 2017, 05:13:42 AM
I dont understand why we're having this dialogue. I didn't write the material. Its no more a matter of opinion that the Alien is biomechanical than it is that I am biological or a car is mechanical. Its not my fault that this stuff isnt the way you thought it appeared to be. I dont understand why you read less into it. It appears the way it is meant to be understood. Why shouldn't it? Why should we look at a car and say, "It's only aesthetically a machine." This would be even stranger if it occurred in a film with no indication that it should be questioned. In this case the BIOMECHANICS are the draw. They are what makes the creature interesting in Alien.
Again, I didnt write it.
The Alien is biomechanical. The Art Director of the films and Ridley Scott himself have said this is where its going. They have deliberately taken the mechanical element out to make this creature different from the biomechanical BIG CHAP.

That's largely irrelevant to the theory about D8 somehow getting impregnated.

We don't need them to literally get gestated inside of a machine to gain a biomechanical aesthetic, any more than terrestrial arthropods do.

QuoteAcidic stomach acid to break down food is not the same thing as having molecular acid for blood that can burn through reinforced steel but not whatever you are using for skin. The Alien doesn't have an Exoskeleton apart from its dome on its head.

It's of a different magnitude, sure, but the principle is the same. Nature creates some wonderful and terrifying things and they're all organic. There are some ants and beetles which literally shoot acid at their enemies. Just because the Alien is different, structurally, doesn't mean it's impossible to be completely organic.

On the contrary, it would have to be. They typically gestate inside an organic host. It doesn't have a source to have gained metal from (and certainly isn't showing any as a chestburster).

QuoteIt hides in machinery and blends in with it NOT BY changing its looks but because it was literally made by the designer to be made of the same materials.

It didn't have the materials, unless you're suggesting Kane was secretly a robot who had more metal inside him than Ash did?

QuoteAs for the rest, I think you are confusing what Im saying is subtext with what Im saying is text. The ship 'Mother's' the Alien SUBTEXTUALLY, not literally (although now it may end up being literal if the rumor was true about it communicating with the ship.).

I realise this, but at no point does Mother actively nurture or protect the Alien. It's nesting inside of where Mother is housed (Mother is not the same as the Nostromo, after all), sure, but at best, that makes for a parasitical analogy, not a parental one.

QuoteIm also saying the same thing you are about David and Weyland. He considers him a son,

In the same way a computer programmer would think of a successful project as 'my baby', sure.

Quoteand has modeled his looks off his DNA.

But they don't look alike. Nor is DNA necessary when you're creating a synthetic being's appearance.

QuoteThis is why Vickers and David appear to be related. I hope David has no part of Weyland in him.

I honestly don't see any resemblance, whatsoever, between Vickers and David 8. No relation, whatsoever, aside from being jealous of her biological father's favouritism. Fictional characters like Vickers, who have daddy issues (feeling someone/something else was taking their father's attention/approval away), are ten a penny.

QuoteI would also argue that the sequels after alien systematically show the creature losing its biomechanical traits.

That's more down to 'Alien Resurrection' deliberately featuring hybrids, not true Aliens. In 'Alien 3', the puppet is a lot more authentic to Giger's usual biomechanical aesthetics than the suit was.

There's no technical reason for the A3 creature to have appeared less biomechanical than its brethren on LV-426. It's meant to have come from the same Queen.

Quote from: 7Xenos on Mar 16, 2017, 07:40:52 AM
David calling OMW "father" might add a new element to the was Vickers human or a synth debate. I like the Blade Runner inspired theory that she is a synth, but doesn't know it ,which is why she feels the need to wear a space suit in order to breath on LV-223.

Possible, but I don't see the point of making an android believe it's human.

Especially when, if it felt it needed to see a medical specialist for some reason (even just for check-ups), the illusion instantly gets shattered.

Dangerous Days

Dangerous Days

#42
Quote from: CainsSon on Mar 16, 2017, 05:13:42 AM
I would also argue that the sequels after alien systematically show the creature losing its biomechanical traits.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 16, 2017, 07:44:02 PM
That's more down to 'Alien Resurrection' deliberately featuring hybrids, not true Aliens. In 'Alien 3', the puppet is a lot more authentic to Giger's usual biomechanical aesthetics than the suit was.

There's no technical reason for the A3 creature to have appeared less biomechanical than its brethren on LV-426. It's meant to have come from the same Queen.

You guys maybe interested in this:



Skip forward to 18:20 mark. For the bit about the biomechanical look.




Not to reignite well worn arguments. Because even though I'm a bigger fan of Alien than Aliens. I was never one of those who agreed that Cameron ruined the Alien by turning it into a giant "space-bug." Because the Alien obviously always drew significant influence from insects. Whether it was O'Bannon being inspired by parasitic wasps for the Alien's lifecycle, or RS referring to the Alien as a beautiful biomechniode insect, wanting it to behave like a Praying Mantis. The insect elements were always there.

However, I do think "Big Chap" was the only "true" biomechniode Xenomorph we've had in the entire series and I can't help but think that the sequels wasted the potential to really explore the Xeno's biomechanical traits; by looking into how a seemingly organic creature would acquire synthetic characteristics. The focus instead shifted onto the insect side of things, which I always found less interesting and somewhat generic of sci-fi horror of the past. A little too close to the atomic age creature features of the 50s, that although Alien drew some inspiration from, was suppose to be the antithesis of, in the way that it was made.

The toning down of the biomechanical aspects is also one of my annoyances with Prometheus. Whether it was Arthur Max removing the bio aspects from the ampule room and juggernaut bridge. Or the Deacon, as an ancestor to the Xeno, being stripped of a biomechanical appearance, despite coming from a biomechniode host.

That's why I'm really hoping for a greater focus on the biomechanical in the coming sequels after Covenant. Because the Alien draws its uniqueness from Giger. Without the Giger elements, its just another movie monster struggling to stick out from the crowd.

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