Ridley Scott Talks Beginning of Alien: Covenant

Started by Corporal Hicks, Mar 15, 2017, 04:11:22 PM

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Ridley Scott Talks Beginning of Alien: Covenant (Read 17,669 times)

Pvt. Himmel

What's fascinating about this information is that it alludes to the fact that David feels "alive" and may in fact consider himself more man, than man. Although in Prometheus, the lack of a soul acknowledgement seemed to bother David.


CainsSon

Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Mar 15, 2017, 06:08:37 PM
What's fascinating about this information is that it alludes to the fact that David feels "alive" and may in fact consider himself more man, than man. Although in Prometheus, the lack of a soul acknowledgement seemed to bother David.

Right and now David has seen what humans would do to 'PERFECT' androids. Its insight humans have never had about our creators because we've been removed from them. Maybe this is why they stopped interacting - the Engineers/our creators. Because it would have affected us to see that they may want to make changes to fix what they didn't like. If you consider that the Engineers may have known THEIR creator wanted to change them - its explains the bioweapon.

They made it, because they knew their creators would change them dispassionately, the same way we would change an android.

I think the idea is also that we are 'Perfecting' and 'recreating' David in Walter. This isn't a mistake. I think this reflection is what Ridley Scott is interested in. David is recreating/perfecting his creation, much in the same way we are recreating/perfecting the androids. Perhaps the idea is for us to question why we make the changes we do to the David model - to make it LESS human,  to make people less uncomfortable. In David's case, he is also making the monster less animal, and more - - ?

I think this is why scott keeps talking about what our creation would create. And who made it and why? I think he is also meaning for us to ask, why we create things the way we do and why would we make the changes we'd make. From David to Walter - Does this make us more like Gods or Monsters? What if our gods wanted to make changes to us? What does that make them? And then trying to suggest that Gods and monsters are created within the same dilemma of the perspective and needs of its creator and not clouded by morality.
If we can just go back and take the humanity out of the Android. What does that make us to the android? A God? A Monster? IN this case DAVID is said to be more human than before. What message is that sending to our creation, if we don't care about taking away its humanity? And how would that affect David's decisions when he decided to create something?

Its interesting.

Ingwar

Quote from: Evanus on Mar 15, 2017, 05:01:55 PM
Quote from: Ingwar on Mar 15, 2017, 04:59:52 PM
Peter Weyland as a younger 40-year-old man? Guy Pearce is 49.

In Prometheus they made Pearce much older and now they had to make him slightly younger that he really is.
To be honest, Guy Pearce looks pretty damn good for his age.

He does.

Ragonk_Force

Ragonk_Force

#18
surely there will be some angle that we dont know yet. I'm excited for the scene, perfect way to start the movie imo

cliffhanger

i mentioned in the other thread, that i read this as a 100% confirmation about david actually being guy pearce's conciousness downloaded digitally through DNA sampling (somehow they do it). as mentioned in the other thread, a logical analysis and comparison of david and weyland in prometheus only strenghtens this 'theory'.

whiterabbit

David is Weyland both in artificial mind and body. There's no doubt he gets facehugged and is the thing in the Pilot's chair in alien. Of course I assume he's creating the alien because he views his man-body as being inferior. I mean hell he dyes his hair after all, which is probably how Weyland deducted that David has no soul.

Xenomorphine

Quote from: CainsSon on Mar 15, 2017, 05:44:27 PM
I think he may be referring to the overall point/message and subtext of the scene and not just the visuals.

By having David 8 saying it feels 'alive'? That's hilariously ambiguous.

Besides which, 'Prometheus' already established that D8's did nothing in Weyland's presence to convince the guy it's anything other than the robotic servant it is.

rabidranger

Weyland downloading his consciousness into David seems like a possible fail safe if his Engineer plan went awry (which it did).

Xenomorphine

Quote from: cliffhanger on Mar 15, 2017, 08:19:58 PM
i mentioned in the other thread, that i read this as a 100% confirmation about david actually being guy pearce's conciousness downloaded digitally through DNA sampling (somehow they do it). as mentioned in the other thread, a logical analysis and comparison of david and weyland in prometheus only strenghtens this 'theory'.

DNA has nothing to do with consciousness. That would be spiritual (or at least mental), not genetic. Otherwise, identical twins would always have a shared consciousness.

Quote from: whiterabbit on Mar 15, 2017, 08:37:48 PM
David is Weyland both in artificial mind and body. There's no doubt he gets facehugged and is the thing in the Pilot's chair in alien. Of course I assume he's creating the alien because he views his man-body as being inferior. I mean hell he dyes his hair after all, which is probably how Weyland deducted that David has no soul.

We already see David 8 standing happily unmolested amidst lots of eggs, which only react to the living character who reacts by leaning over one in curiosity.

There would also be nothing organic to allow the embryo grow. D8 is a machine.

Mustangjeff

Quote from: whiterabbit on Mar 15, 2017, 08:37:48 PM
David is Weyland both in artificial mind and body. There's no doubt he gets facehugged and is the thing in the Pilot's chair in alien. Of course I assume he's creating the alien because he views his man-body as being inferior. I mean hell he dyes his hair after all, which is probably how Weyland deducted that David has no soul.

It's too bad that they had to rip David's head off in Prometheus and show he was a synthetic.  IMO it would have been an interesting twist if David had ended up being a cyborg instead of full synthetic.  At that point you could make his story about the search for the perfect organism to replace his dying organic body.  Or better yet..  Part Synthetic and part replicant :)

CainsSon

CainsSon

#25
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 16, 2017, 01:02:06 AM
Quote from: cliffhanger on Mar 15, 2017, 08:19:58 PM
i mentioned in the other thread, that i read this as a 100% confirmation about david actually being guy pearce's conciousness downloaded digitally through DNA sampling (somehow they do it). as mentioned in the other thread, a logical analysis and comparison of david and weyland in prometheus only strenghtens this 'theory'.

DNA has nothing to do with consciousness. That would be spiritual (or at least mental), not genetic. Otherwise, identical twins would always have a shared consciousness.

Quote from: whiterabbit on Mar 15, 2017, 08:37:48 PM
David is Weyland both in artificial mind and body. There's no doubt he gets facehugged and is the thing in the Pilot's chair in alien. Of course I assume he's creating the alien because he views his man-body as being inferior. I mean hell he dyes his hair after all, which is probably how Weyland deducted that David has no soul.

We already see David 8 standing happily unmolested amidst lots of eggs, which only react to the living character who reacts by leaning over one in curiosity.

There would also be nothing organic to allow the embryo grow. D8 is a machine.

There is evidence to suggest that the neurotransmitter GABBA may be intricately linked to consciousness. Not to spoil your SPIRITUALITY stuff. Its not the strongest evidence.

If the SPACE JOCKEY turns out to be WEYLAND's consciousness, downloaded into David, who makes the Aliens and then gets facehugged and crashes the derelict on LV426 - That would make the STAR WARS Prequels, a masterpiece in comparison. God help us.

As for an Android getting facehugged, we have to accept that there is some way in this series that BIOMECHANICS work. This involves ORGANIC MATTER GROWING ON and WITHIN MACHINES. Now, Im not saying having this happen specifically is the only way this should occur, but in truth, SAYING ITS NOT POSSIBLE DIRECTLY, would be creating kind of a plot hole, because the entire design of the ALIEN is BIOMECHANICAL which means, there has to be a way to merge machine and organic matter... That an ALIEN can do it, is sorta already a thing. How its done it, is a mystery, and MAYBE IT SHOULD STAY THAT WAY, but its biomechanical features are not really something we can exclude without reason and as they said "Its getting there." 

Perhaps a better way to consider this is: We dont understand the mechanics of biology. And it makes sense that our creators would, so - it also makes sense that they could have a way to do this.

echobbase79


This whole business with Weyland's consciousness being downloaded into David is just a fan theory, right?

Xenomorphine

Quote from: CainsSon on Mar 16, 2017, 01:34:28 AM
There is evidence to suggest that the neurotransmitter GABBA may be intricately linked to consciousness. Not to spoil your SPIRITUALITY stuff. Its not the strongest evidence.

Like I said, spiritual or mental. It's nothing to do with DNA.mEven the Alien, which somehow has 'genetic memory', wiuldn't be able to perform this: Memories aren't someone's consciousness, either.

QuoteAs for an Android getting facehugged, we have to accept that there is some way in this series that BIOMECHANICS work. This involves ORGANIC MATTER GROWING ON and WITHIN MACHINES. Now, Im not saying having this happen specifically is the only way this should occur, but in truth, SAYING ITS NOT POSSIBLE DIRECTLY, would be creating kind of a plot hole, because the entire design of the ALIEN is BIOMECHANICAL which means, there has to be a way to merge machine and organic matter... That an ALIEN can do it, is sorta already a thing. How its done it, is a mystery, and MAYBE IT SHOULD STAY THAT WAY, but its biomechanical features are not really something we can exclude without reason and as they said "Its getting there."

Biomechanics were an artistic aesthetic Giger specialised in.

For the Alien, it's not literal. Kane, after all, was not a machine with which his chestburster somehow merged (and the chestburster, it must be said, was decidedly fleshy, not mechanised). For the Alien, it would most logically be extrapolated by the hardening exoskeleton.

Go and look at electron microscope close-ups of insects and arachnids. They tend to look very machine-like, but they're not literally constructed of metal. It's their natural exoskeleton.

Then again, neither are the synthetics... Ash and Bishop seemed to have electronics, but no indications of having any metal endoskeletons. David 8, too. So, if this theory were even true, an Alien would somehow have to gain literal external mechanical components from a being which doesn't even have any. :)

CainsSon

CainsSon

#28
Quote from: echobbase79 on Mar 16, 2017, 01:53:17 AM

This whole business with Weyland's consciousness being downloaded into David is just a fan theory, right?

Yes, and I hope they dont do this. Its very FANCIFUL. No one really knows the source of consciousness. However, it could be BELIEVABLE that WEYLAND used some of his DNA to model DAVID'S skin and physical features.

I could be wrong but I think someone has revealed that Weyland may actually call him his "SON." So maybe David has some Bio-tissue over his Android body and/or he is just meant to look like Weyland's child would - so he considers him his 'son.'


Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 16, 2017, 02:29:22 AM
Quote from: CainsSon on Mar 16, 2017, 01:34:28 AM
There is evidence to suggest that the neurotransmitter GABBA may be intricately linked to consciousness. Not to spoil your SPIRITUALITY stuff. Its not the strongest evidence.

Like I said, spiritual or mental. It's nothing to do with DNA.mEven the Alien, which somehow has 'genetic memory', wiuldn't be able to perform this: Memories aren't someone's consciousness, either.

QuoteAs for an Android getting facehugged, we have to accept that there is some way in this series that BIOMECHANICS work. This involves ORGANIC MATTER GROWING ON and WITHIN MACHINES. Now, Im not saying having this happen specifically is the only way this should occur, but in truth, SAYING ITS NOT POSSIBLE DIRECTLY, would be creating kind of a plot hole, because the entire design of the ALIEN is BIOMECHANICAL which means, there has to be a way to merge machine and organic matter... That an ALIEN can do it, is sorta already a thing. How its done it, is a mystery, and MAYBE IT SHOULD STAY THAT WAY, but its biomechanical features are not really something we can exclude without reason and as they said "Its getting there."

Biomechanics were an artistic aesthetic Giger specialised in.

For the Alien, it's not literal. Kane, after all, was not a machine with which his chestburster somehow merged (and the chestburster, it must be said, was decidedly fleshy, not mechanised). For the Alien, it would most logically be extrapolated by the hardening exoskeleton.

Go and look at electron microscope close-ups of insects and arachnids. They tend to look very machine-like, but they're not literally constructed of metal. It's their natural exoskeleton.

Then again, neither are the synthetics... Ash and Bishop seemed to have electronics, but no indications of having any metal endoskeletons. David 8, too. So, if this theory were even true, an Alien would somehow have to gain literal external mechanical components from a being which doesn't even have any. :)

First let me say I get why people don't like this idea, as it seems rather quaint. But RS is very interested in the idea of creating artificial life, biological and mechanical.

The Biomechanics in the ALIEN film are meant to be there. Its present in the Space Jockey and the Engineers and the Alien itself - which certainly has mechanical features. The ACID for blood and steel-like strength, and tubes and metal teeth... Its not just an aesthetic. I suppose you could force it to be that way in your own way, if you ignore a lot of detail, but its even in the subtext, with the Computer 'MOTHER' NURTURING the Alien and ASH sorta protecting it. They behave as it's parents.

We heard from the Art Dept on PROMETHEUS that RS deliberately asked them to separate the BIO from the mechanics in the design of the sets.
We are hearing from the art dept on this film that we are seeing a biological version of the creature and are working our way toward introducing the mechanics so - -I respect and totally understand why you may not like the idea of this happening. I can see why it seems quaint. But Im not making this up.
Im only trying to draw attention to the fact that you cannot explicitly say in this series that there is no such thing as biomechanics and not create plot hole.

Xenomorphine

There's no evidence to say the Alien literally had metal teeth and there are plenty of animals which use acid as internal body fluids. We're actually one of them - stomach acid. Like I said, go and look up electron microscope images of insects and arachnids and such. They look just as machine-like in appearance, even down to tubes.

I don't regard the Nostromo's computer as protecting anything. It's got need-to-know orders, sure, but that's not the same thing as what Ash was doing. It's an automoton and is just following its programmed directives.

As for Weyland calling a David 8 his son, he essentially did that in the first film, too. He even clarified it as terming it "the closest thing" he had to an actual son, proving it was no different to any other engineer/creation thing. You have shipbuilders calling their boats affectionat enames, too. It doesn't mean they've physically got organic material stuffed in there. :)

Keep in mind, also, that there were a lot of David 8s out there. They were a mass-produced commercial venture.

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