Was Lambert raped by the Alien?

Started by Ellen Ripley, Nov 02, 2007, 07:42:37 PM

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Was Lambert raped by the Alien? (Read 168,819 times)

BlueMarsalis79

Agreed really wish we got an "Extended Edition" instead of that awful Marketing Cut.

Elmazalman

Elmazalman

#796
Quote from: xeno_alpha_07 on Oct 23, 2021, 04:26:18 PM
Quote from: Elmazalman on Oct 23, 2021, 03:56:49 PM
You mean this shot?

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I thought it was this shot as they enter the room after Parker says the line "OK, check the bottles"  The camera moves over to focus on the tracker.  I think I got mixed up there:

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QuoteThe sequence was really cut back to the bare minimum. The unused insert tracker shots, I think, would've added to the tension even more.

Agreed.  Don't get me wrong I understand why Alien was cut and edited the way it was and to me, it works like a charm. 
But I'd still like to see the original intended graphic cut of the film that has been talked about over the years in various articles/interviews especially the deaths of both Brett & Parker.  Veronica Cartwright says in issue 158 of Famous monsters of filmland that the fronts and backs of scenes were also cut just leaving the middle segments.  I'm a sucker for deleted and alternate scenes of movies especially the Alien movies.
I also find alternate versions of films and deleted scenes extremely interesting.

Sadly, with ALIEN, we came so close to getting an extended cut - with apparently - everything thrown in - including previously unreleased material. Then Ridley Scott viewed it and thought it was too long. Damn.

I also have the #158 issue, and remember what she said about the film's editing.

Brett and Parker's deaths have a lot of lost scenes. What I would like to see is the material leading up to their respective deaths: the start of the search for the Alien on B-Deck, before the tracker emits its signal and Ripley, Parker and Brett climb down the service ladder to C-Deck. The additional scenes of Brett searching alone for the cat and cursing it, and Ripley & Parker deciding to go back and find Brett - arriving just in time to see him taken.

The missing shots of the Alien in the garage, stalking Parker and Lambert, and the tracker insert shots sound great.

Best of all, is the alternate, too-gruesome-to-use take of the insert shot for Parker's head-bite - talked about on the first volume of the ALIEN Makers documentary.


xeno_alpha_07

Quote from: Elmazalman on Oct 23, 2021, 05:03:15 PM
Best of all, is the alternate, too-gruesome-to-use take of the insert shot for Parker's head-bite - talked about on the first volume of the ALIEN Makers documentary.

Yes, Neil Swan (RIP) I remember now.  It's been a very long time since I've watched those.  If memory serves Valaquen had a behind-the-scenes picture of the prop they used for Parker's head bite on his blog.  On the Alien Saga documentary, there is extra footage of Parker getting his head squeezed just like Brett.  The quality isn't excellent.


Quote
Sadly, with ALIEN, we came so close to getting an extended cut - with apparently - everything thrown in - including previously unreleased material. Then Ridley Scott viewed it and thought it was too long. Damn.

Such a missed opportunity there and reading that about Riddles just infuriates me.  I remember the disappointment I felt when I first saw the Director's Cut and non of the graphic footage was added back in.  Although I was still happy to see a DC of the film it just wasn't what I wanted.  I wonder if the film reel of the 2-hour rough cut still exists.  I know there is a black and white workprint in existence as the makers of the Alien collector's edition laserdisc almost used it for the deleted scenes on the special features.  Instead, they opted to use 'raw dallies' they put together from what they found instead if I am remembering that correctly.  My memory of all things Alien isn't what it once was since I took my long hiatus from it all.

Sorry for going slightly off-topic by the way.

Regarding whether Lambert was 'violated' or not I never used to think so back in the day.  Based on Dan O' Bannon's comments,  the Alan Dean Foster novel, and the screams she makes I always assumed she was being squeezed to death as the Alien tried to pull her into the vent.  The whole 'rape' thing didn't cross my mind until years later.

Elmazalman

Elmazalman

#798
Quote from: xeno_alpha_07 on Oct 23, 2021, 06:42:39 PM
Such a missed opportunity there and reading that about Riddles just infuriates me.  I remember the disappointment I felt when I first saw the Director's Cut and non of the graphic footage was added back in.  Although I was still happy to see a DC of the film it just wasn't what I wanted.  I wonder if the film reel of the 2-hour rough cut still exists.  I know there is a black and white workprint in existence as the makers of the Alien collector's edition laserdisc almost used it for the deleted scenes on the special features.  Instead, they opted to use 'raw dallies' they put together from what they found instead if I am remembering that correctly.

I think that b/w early edit was used by the composer for timing purposes? I remember reading about it on Facebook. It contains an extended version of the bit where Ripley almost bumps into the Alien on her way to the shuttle. The shot of the Alien squatting in the middle of the corridor is used - and Ripley gets two peeks at the Alien, before backing away. The scene was condensed to just one quick peek and one almost subliminal shot of the creature for the final cut.

Not only did we miss out on an extended cut of ALIEN, but I remember eagerly awaiting the home video SE release of Prometheus - which would've offered an extended edit as an option - before it mysteriously vanished from the "bonus features" list.

I don't believe Lambert's final moments were of interspecies bonding. More like a quick examination of sorts, before the creature's curiosity with her was satisfied. She was rewarded with a hole in her head for her troubles.

SiL

SiL

#799
Quote from: Elmazalman on Oct 24, 2021, 12:27:55 AM
I think that b/w early edit was used by the composer for timing purposes? I remember reading about it on Facebook
I'd love to see this just to hear Goldsmith's cue for the Parker/Lambert scene line up with the bits he added for when it cut to the Alien sneaking up on them...

Elmazalman

Elmazalman

#800
Quote from: SiL on Oct 24, 2021, 12:32:24 AM
Quote from: Elmazalman on Oct 24, 2021, 12:27:55 AM
I think that b/w early edit was used by the composer for timing purposes? I remember reading about it on Facebook
I'd love to see this just to hear Goldsmith's cue for the Parker/Lambert scene line up with the bits he added for when it cut to the Alien sneaking up on them...
Same.

You'd probably have as much chance at seeing this as you would the b/w "Lost Cut" of STAR WARS, though ...

xeno_alpha_07

QuoteI think that b/w early edit was used by the composer for timing purposes? I remember reading about it on Facebook. It contains an extended version of the bit where Ripley almost bumps into the Alien on her way to the shuttle. The shot of the Alien squatting in the middle of the corridor is used - and Ripley gets two peeks at the Alien, before backing away. The scene was condensed to just one quick peek and one almost subliminal shot of the creature for the final cut.

I would love to see the Ripley glancing at the Alien scene in its entirety as well as the b/w workprint.  But as you said to SiL like the b/w SW workprint it is very unlikely sadly.  Besides the extra little snippet on the Quadrilogy/Anthology documentaries the only other known footage I've ever found of the Alien squatting in the corridor is a 9-second clip.  It was an extremely fast clip I had to slow down:

https://vimeo.com/8973812

Hope the clip works.

QuoteI don't believe Lambert's final moments were of interspecies bonding. More like a quick examination of sorts, before the creature's curiosity with her was satisfied. She was rewarded with a hole in her head for her troubles.

I wonder if Lambert also got the same 'head squeezing' fate as Brett and Parker.  But I agree with you I don't think she was 'violated' just killed off like the others.  Lambert at one stage was to just die of fright in a storage locker.  If that original concept was kept in It definitely wouldn't have the same effect and impact.  The very first time I watched Alien and heard Lambert's screams like that as Ripley ran down the corridor frightened the life out of me.


Elmazalman

Elmazalman

#802
Quote from: xeno_alpha_07 on Oct 24, 2021, 01:20:23 AM
QuoteI think that b/w early edit was used by the composer for timing purposes? I remember reading about it on Facebook. It contains an extended version of the bit where Ripley almost bumps into the Alien on her way to the shuttle. The shot of the Alien squatting in the middle of the corridor is used - and Ripley gets two peeks at the Alien, before backing away. The scene was condensed to just one quick peek and one almost subliminal shot of the creature for the final cut.

I would love to see the Ripley glancing at the Alien scene in its entirety as well as the b/w workprint.  But as you said to SiL like the b/w SW workprint it is very unlikely sadly.  Besides the extra little snippet on the Quadrilogy/Anthology documentaries the only other known footage I've ever found of the Alien squatting in the corridor is a 9-second clip.  It was an extremely fast clip I had to slow down:

https://vimeo.com/8973812

Hope the clip works.

QuoteI don't believe Lambert's final moments were of interspecies bonding. More like a quick examination of sorts, before the creature's curiosity with her was satisfied. She was rewarded with a hole in her head for her troubles.

I wonder if Lambert also got the same 'head squeezing' fate as Brett and Parker.  But I agree with you I don't think she was 'violated' just killed off like the others.  Lambert at one stage was to just die of fright in a storage locker.  If that original concept was kept in It definitely wouldn't have the same effect and impact.  The very first time I watched Alien and heard Lambert's screams like that as Ripley ran down the corridor frightened the life out of me.
I remember you posted this ALIEN outtake a few years back. Thank you very much for sharing. I haven't seen this anywhere else. It should've been part of the Anthology set.  ???

No reason to think Lambert didn't get her head squeezed (offscreen) like the others. There is outtake footage of the Alien, about to deliver a head-bite to her, just before Parker intervenes, saving her life (for the moment). It's a lovely, tight head-and-shoulders shot of the creature.

I find it interesting and curios that the two "troublemakers" (as Ridley Scott refers to them), Parker & Brett, are the only characters to be seen having their brains graphically smashed onscreen. It's almost as if Ridley Scott were punishing them for being "blue-collar."  :laugh:

It's a pity the storage locker footage wasn't filmed (to my knowledge), but if it was, I doubt it would've benefited the film. What we got was much more terrifying.

SiL

SiL

#803
Cartwright said her death was never filmed and she wasn't too happy about the fact. They told her they'd get to it later and never did.

Elmazalman

Elmazalman

#804
Quote from: SiL on Oct 24, 2021, 02:45:57 AM
Cartwright said her death was never filmed and she wasn't too happy about the fact. They told her they'd get to it later and never did.
Probably for the best.

If the ability to use her legs had returned to her, after her initial shock at seeing the creature, why choose to hide in a locker, when she could've made a break for the doorway, instead - as Parker had wanted her to?

SiL

SiL

#805
The Alien was still next to that door to be fair

Elmazalman

Elmazalman

#806
Quote from: SiL on Oct 24, 2021, 08:24:59 AM
The Alien was still next to that door to be fair
I know. But it makes more sense than hiding in a cramped room with the thing still in it.

xeno_alpha_07

Quote from: Elmazalman on Oct 24, 2021, 02:33:12 AM
I remember you posted this ALIEN outtake a few years back. Thank you very much for sharing. I haven't seen this anywhere else. It should've been part of the Anthology set.  ???

I couldn't remember if I had posted that clip before sorry.  It would have been brilliant if that included that scene and various others as part of the deleted scenes for the Anthology set.  When I used to have Facebook, if memory serves,
Charles de Lauzirika mentioned while looking for negatives he found some footage for Alien that had been lost which he wanted to show Ridley but none of that footage was used for either boxset.  If I'm remembering that wrong someone please correct me  :)

QuoteNo reason to think Lambert didn't get her head squeezed (offscreen) like the others. There is outtake footage of the Alien, about to deliver a head-bite to her, just before Parker intervenes, saving her life (for the moment). It's a lovely, tight head-and-shoulders shot of the creature.

The Alien then strikes Parker into the wall before picking him up and slamming him into the wall and squeezing his head.  Again, footage that should have been added in my opinion.  Those shots of the Alien about to head bite Lambert would have also been a nice inclusion in the scene.  However, as you said what we got, in the end, was way more terrifying.

QuoteI find it interesting and curios that the two "troublemakers" (as Ridley Scott refers to them), Parker & Brett, are the only characters to be seen having their brains graphically smashed onscreen. It's almost as if Ridley Scott were punishing them for being "blue-collar."  :laugh:

I never thought of that  :D  Maybe the Alien was tired of hearing the endless complaints about the 'bonus situation'.

QuoteIt's a pity the storage locker footage wasn't filmed (to my knowledge), but if it was, I doubt it would've benefited the film. What we got was much more terrifying.

In an interview with thespectrtum.com Veronica Cartwright mentions the original storage locker plan with the Alien pulling her out of it and that she was disappointed about her death scene not being filmed as SiL mentioned.  She also mentions the meat hook.

Quote"I was a bit disappointed they never did shoot my actual death scene – I was supposed to hide in a locker and be pulled out by the alien. So all you see is the alien's tail moving up my body, which was actually Harry Dean's in the scene. Later, they filmed me hanging from a meat hook, but you just see my legs hanging down covered in blood."

I wonder if Lambert hanging from a meat hook was inspired by The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

SiL

SiL

#808
I wouldn't be surprised by the last part. Scott did mention it as an influence.

Elmazalman

Elmazalman

#809
Quote from: xeno_alpha_07 on Oct 24, 2021, 11:47:21 AM

The Alien then strikes Parker into the wall before picking him up and slamming him into the wall and squeezing his head.  Again, footage that should have been added in my opinion.  Those shots of the Alien about to head bite Lambert would have also been a nice inclusion in the scene.  However, as you said what we got, in the end, was way more terrifying.


I wonder if Lambert hanging from a meat hook was inspired by The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

The one deleted fragment I'd most like to see from Parker's death scene would be the shot of the Alien releasing him immediately after head-biting him. Would be a cool shot to see: a freshly killed Parker, slumping lifeless to the deck, with his brains falling into his lap, as the blood pours from the hole in his head - nasty. I wonder if there would be any 'nerve action' acting - like Kane's shaking hands after giving birth to the Chestburster?

Quote from: SiL on Oct 24, 2021, 12:14:44 PM
I wouldn't be surprised by the last part. Scott did mention it as an influence.
He screened the film for the small cast, if I remember correctly?

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