Damon Lindelof Paradise Script

Started by ikarop, Nov 14, 2012, 09:27:27 PM

Author
Damon Lindelof Paradise Script (Read 50,410 times)

Blacklabel

Blacklabel

#150
Not so much a "baffling character decision" as just Holloway throwing Shaw's "believer" attitude back at her face as a reminder of who she is.

As far as he was concerned they were in an Alien temple that their theories had predicted. The temple of their "gods". They were already proven correct... in all the excitement and blood rush of "WE JUST FOUND OUR GODZ, GUYZ!" it was probably hard to understand why she was suddenly being all "let's be careful about this..." (she was right of course, but hotter heads prevailed.)

Deuterium

Deuterium

#151
Of course, the whole story continuously fails on a basic science level.

Once the Prometheus team arrived at LV-233, found the temple, assayed the dead "engineer" and found it's genetic code to be, for all intents and purposes, human...a "reasonable" scientific hypothesis to explain this amazing coincidence, correlation and correspondence might be:

==>  An advanced, space-faring alien race visited Earth within the recent past (measured in thousands of years), and interacted with our ancestors.

==>  They took a few humans back with them, and augmented them through genetic modification.  That is who the "engineers" are.

What is NOT a reasonable scientific hypothesis, from the evidence available to the Prometheus science team, is to conclude that the engineers were our creators, and responsible for Life on Earth.

Even presuming the artificial introducion of primordial life (self-replicating molecule / cell) to a planet...the chances that Intelligent Life would evolve is most likely pretty low.  The chances that the same primordial life would not only evolve into some Intelligent lifeform, but also that the Intelligent lifeform would be identical to their progenitors' (the engineers), has such an infinitesimally low probability, as to be effectively impossible.

Peakius Baragonius

Quote from: Deuterium on Nov 21, 2012, 10:16:19 PM
Of course, the whole story continuously fails on a basic science level.

Once the Prometheus team arrived at LV-233, found the temple, assayed the dead "engineer" and found it's genetic code to be, for all intents and purposes, human...a "reasonable" scientific hypothesis to explain this amazing coincidence, correlation and correspondence might be:

==>  An advanced, space-faring alien race visited Earth within the recent past (measured in thousands of years), and interacted with our ancestors.

==>  They took a few humans back with them, and augmented them through genetic modification.  That is who the "engineers" are.

What is NOT a reasonable scientific hypothesis, from the evidence available to the Prometheus science team, is to conclude that the engineers were our creators, and responsible for Life on Earth.

Even presuming the artificial introducion of primordial life (self-replicating molecule / cell) to a planet...the chances that Intelligent Life would evolve is most likely pretty low.  The chances that the same primordial life would not only evolve into some Intelligent lifeform, but also that the Intelligent lifeform would be identical to their progenitors' (the engineers), has such an infinitesimally low probability, as to be effectively impossible.

In Spaihts' draft, it's heavily implied that the Engineers "augmented" life on Earth to eventually produce a lifeform resembling them; presumably, this is the intended reason in the final film as well. 

Which is the only thing keeping me from denouncing the film as complete horses**t.

Deuterium

Deuterium

#153
Quote from: Peakius Baragonius on Nov 22, 2012, 01:47:52 AM

In Spaihts' draft, it's heavily implied that the Engineers "augmented" life on Earth to eventually produce a lifeform resembling them; presumably, this is the intended reason in the final film as well. 

Which is the only thing keeping me from denouncing the film as complete horses**t.

Hi PB,

You may not necessarily have been following along to the previous posts/arguments...nevertheless, my point is that any such appeal to "external" explanations and/or clarifications, counts for absolutely nothing, in the context of the released film.  Whatever may or may not have existed in a prior draft script, has no bearing on what is actually presented in the official film.

As serious fans, we can analzye and debate "what if" scenarios till the cows come home.  At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is what is contained within the official film...as that is what the general audience will understand.

If it isn't in the official film, it doesn't friggin' count.  If someone has to look to a draft script for information that does not exist in the final, released film, in order to answer fundamental narrative problems, then that constitutes a failure in basic story-telling and film-making.

SM

SM

#154
The "general audience" has easy access to all these info sources outside of the film too.

Deuterium

Deuterium

#155
Quote from: SM on Nov 22, 2012, 05:57:44 AM
The "general audience" has easy access to all these info sources outside of the film too.

Sure, in theory, everyone with an internet connection has potential access to these external "sources".

However, in reality (and let's be honest, here), these resources constitute an "extended universe" that no ordinary, typical audience member would ever consult, much less know of it's existence.  It is only a relatively small, atypical and exclusive group (e.g members of this forum) that view such material...and have the pleasure to debate and argue over it's canonical legitimacy, or not.   ;) :)


Darth Vile

Darth Vile

#156
Quote from: Deuterium on Nov 22, 2012, 07:13:29 AM
Quote from: SM on Nov 22, 2012, 05:57:44 AM
The "general audience" has easy access to all these info sources outside of the film too.

Sure, in theory, everyone with an internet connection has potential access to these external "sources".

However, in reality (and let's be honest, here), these resources constitute an "extended universe" that no ordinary, typical audience member would ever consult, much less know of it's existence.  It is only a relatively small, atypical and exclusive group (e.g members of this forum) that view such material...and have the pleasure to debate and argue over it's canonical legitimacy, or not.   ;) :)
If we're talking audience perception/understanding... I completely agree with you. We can only take what occurs in the actual movie to debate if it achieved its aims. We must discount docs, deleted scenes or early drafts of screenplays. However, I just disagree with your conclusions. IMHO the movie does enough to allow the audience to connect the dots without the need for over exposition and talky dialogue that burdens similar sci-fi movies. It's the fine line between an excesible and an inteligent Hollywood product - which I think Prometheus treads quite succesfully (without ever doing it perfectly though I'd agree).

SM

SM

#157
Quote from: Deuterium on Nov 22, 2012, 07:13:29 AM
Quote from: SM on Nov 22, 2012, 05:57:44 AM
The "general audience" has easy access to all these info sources outside of the film too.

Sure, in theory, everyone with an internet connection has potential access to these external "sources".

However, in reality (and let's be honest, here), these resources constitute an "extended universe" that no ordinary, typical audience member would ever consult, much less know of it's existence.  It is only a relatively small, atypical and exclusive group (e.g members of this forum) that view such material...and have the pleasure to debate and argue over it's canonical legitimacy, or not.   ;) :)

So all that money they spent on marketing was solely for our benefit then?

ChrisPachi

ChrisPachi

#158
The recent argument here about why Weyland would bet so much on Shaw's beliefs could be easily assuaged by the inclusion of the Viral Eye clip or some exposition of the sort, and even more so by the entry in the Weyland Files on the BD suggesting that Weyland knew about the signal from LV-426 well before setting out for LV-223. Either one of those elements would of solved the problem and we wouldn't be arguing about it.

Darth Vile

Darth Vile

#159
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Nov 23, 2012, 09:51:09 AM
The recent argument here about why Weyland would bet so much on Shaw's beliefs could be easily assuaged by the inclusion of the Viral Eye clip or some exposition of the sort, and even more so by the entry in the Weyland Files on the BD suggesting that Weyland knew about the signal from LV-426 well before setting out for LV-223. Either one of those elements would of solved the problem and we wouldn't be arguing about it.
Yeah but we're arguning about it because we're Alien fans who are moved to discuss the minutia. For the millions of others who went to see it, Weyland's commitments to Shaw's convictions/beliefs are largely irrelevant.

Blacklabel

Blacklabel

#160
I was surprised to see the Quiet Eye viral in the Paradise draft. :P It was definitely meant to be in the movie at some point. It's exclusion doesnt make me sad, though. Doesnt work.

ChrisPachi

ChrisPachi

#161
Quote from: Darth Vile on Nov 24, 2012, 04:23:52 PMYeah but we're arguning about it because we're Alien fans who are moved to discuss the minutia. For the millions of others who went to see it, Weyland's commitments to Shaw's convictions/beliefs are largely irrelevant.

So the script is fine because nobody other than us fans gives a second shit?.. I am not sure what your point is here.

Darth Vile

Darth Vile

#162
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Nov 25, 2012, 11:59:49 AM
Quote from: Darth Vile on Nov 24, 2012, 04:23:52 PMYeah but we're arguning about it because we're Alien fans who are moved to discuss the minutia. For the millions of others who went to see it, Weyland's commitments to Shaw's convictions/beliefs are largely irrelevant.

So the script is fine because nobody other than us fans gives a second shit?.. I am not sure what your point is here.
No - I'm pointing out that it's largely irrelevant to the masses of 'normal' moviegoers. Is the fact that Darth Vader takes a dissproprtionate amount of time to take a shot at Luke's X-Wing in the Death Star trench a massive script issue? Nope.

Peakius Baragonius

Peakius Baragonius

#163
Quote from: Deuterium on Nov 22, 2012, 05:16:26 AM
Quote from: Peakius Baragonius on Nov 22, 2012, 01:47:52 AM

In Spaihts' draft, it's heavily implied that the Engineers "augmented" life on Earth to eventually produce a lifeform resembling them; presumably, this is the intended reason in the final film as well. 

Which is the only thing keeping me from denouncing the film as complete horses**t.

Hi PB,

You may not necessarily have been following along to the previous posts/arguments...nevertheless, my point is that any such appeal to "external" explanations and/or clarifications, counts for absolutely nothing, in the context of the released film.  Whatever may or may not have existed in a prior draft script, has no bearing on what is actually presented in the official film.

As serious fans, we can analzye and debate "what if" scenarios till the cows come home.  At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is what is contained within the official film...as that is what the general audience will understand.

If it isn't in the official film, it doesn't friggin' count.  If someone has to look to a draft script for information that does not exist in the final, released film, in order to answer fundamental narrative problems, then that constitutes a failure in basic story-telling and film-making.

Hi Deuterium, the thing is that I myself came up with such an idea as I struggled to justify the film's apparent mockery of the scientific process. You're quite right however (hmmm, PB...I like it!  :P)

EDIT: Just picked up on this little gem: "WATER. Intensely BLUE, untouched and PRISTINE as the rays of the SUN dance off its glasslike surface. CLEAR. UNTOUCHED."

*facepalm*

SureSureSURE

It seems odd that most of the criticism here seems to be on the scientific accuracy or strange plot moves. I've got little problem with the plot, and smaller yet concern over the science behind the film. Alien was also ambiguous, which is why it is still so interesting today.
The issue with Lindelof's script is plainly the dialogue....it's atrocious in parts ("you can pay me...on the other side" - ugh). This pulled you back and snatched away any sense of realism. In my opinion the jarring cruddy conversations were far more damaging to the film than these scientific issues.

Even still...In my opinion it was a fine film....

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