Has Alien vs. Predator (2004) aged all that well?

Started by LastSurvivor92, Mar 21, 2019, 12:49:19 AM

Author
Has Alien vs. Predator (2004) aged all that well? (Read 39,587 times)

BlueMarsalis79

Imagine using AVP Requiem as evidence of anything other than what not to do.

City Hunter Yautja

Quote from: Omegamorph on Aug 19, 2022, 07:24:45 PM
Quote from: City Hunter Yautja on Aug 19, 2022, 05:58:47 PMXenos are deadly, but not as intelligent as humans
not really no

they're just dumbed down in AvPR (most of the time)

Well lets examine:

Alien
Chappy gets stuck in piping, and then ejected out airlock because rather than attack Ripley loke Paker or people in AVP films, it takes its good time using that teeth tongue.

Aliens
Xenos keep running down corridor and getting blown away by sentry guns (Director's Cut) till their ranks are thinned.

Alien3
The Runner Alien falls for trap (Assembly Cut) and never thinks to use the acid spit it used om the guy in tunnel and that it melted metal with?

Alien Covenant
First Xeno is stupid enough to jump into claw of crane, Second Xeno prusues prey in a hangar that has been opened to space? What is it with Xenos being carless near airlocks?

SiL

Quote from: City Hunter Yautja on Aug 19, 2022, 10:42:04 PMAlien
Chappy gets stuck in piping, and then ejected out airlock because rather than attack Ripley loke Paker or people in AVP films, it takes its good time using that teeth tongue.
It wasn't stuck, it was trying to escape the poisonous gas it was being attacked with.

It takes about the same time to open its mouth as it does with Brett and Parker -- Ripley hits the button in time.

And was meant to be dying.

QuoteAliens
Xenos keep running down corridor and getting blown away by sentry guns (Director's Cut) till their ranks are thinned.
Their ranks aren't thinned, as we can see when Ripley and Hicks escape. The Aliens aren't running at the guns, they're actually seen trying to cross the corridor. The guns run dry without killing many Aliens at all.

QuoteAlien3
The Runner Alien falls for trap (Assembly Cut) and never thinks to use the acid spit it used om the guy in tunnel and that it melted metal with?
The door is six feet thick.

QuoteSecond Xeno prusues prey in a hangar that has been opened to space? What is it with Xenos being carless near airlocks?
They open the hangar after it enters. How are they supposed to know what an air lock is, exactly?

BlueMarsalis79

Arguably on par with or above human intelligence in Resurrection, judging by how quickly they learn.

SiL

SiL

#139
I don't know any 24 hour old humans who are anywhere near as smart as an Alien.


I think it's more accurate to say they have a very different kind of intelligence and that comparing them is kind of dumb.

Adult humans are as smart as they are because we're born super immature and spend years being taught by others who spent years being taught by others, etc. etc.

An Alien not knowing what an airlock is, or that a crane is a crane and not a giant metal monster, does not make the Alien dumb. It won't calculate any math equations any time soon, but it will find the best, fastest way to sneak up behind you undetected, and will do so without any training hours after being born.

judge death

judge death

#140
Indeed and to me it was also clear in alien covenant its not truly xenomorphs we are dealing with both Davids version which might be a prototype or a different breed completely depending on how one intercept the movie and the novel, and dont come here with: novel dont count etc when the novel seem to be taken as canon for alien and aliens in the streams from avpgalaxy. Back to point: covenants proto xenomorphs was very different in their design and more flesh and no biomechanical and from what they did they were SUPER aggressive towards anything and it identified the crane as an enemy to attack.
Which our normal xenomorphs wouldnt as they like to watch and learn before striking and they can tell machine apart from living beings.
So I wouldnt take covenants aliens as evidence of xenomorphs being dumb and defencless.

The rest I agree with Sil on with his points.
In alien big chap showed curiousity, thinking and planning, it was only when it was hibernating onboard the ferry when it was caught off guard with the gas and kinda tight spot so getting out will take a second or two and Ridley scott wanted it to be slow due to in his mind: xenomorphs only live a day before dying.

Aliens, the xenos used swarm tactic on the sentry guns and didnt know at first what they can do, we never see them die on mass or running straight at the sentries but jumping around and trying to get away from its fire, the sentries are likely targeting anything that moves: so any dead xenos limbs and parts that is still moving after they were killed: are still being targeted. In their second attack they change tactics and learn. They didnt lose many as we see the motion tracker showing still 80+ xenomorphs coming for them in the end battle.
Plus they know how electricity work, and to take out their drop ship first and they were smart enough to cut communication and taking over the colony.
rather impressive inteligence on them.

IF I count alien resurrection novel we see they are very smart, not human level but primate level and that is scary.

What AVPR did was to dumb them down to below 2 digit and make them defenceless and also weaker just for making the plot work with the predator to be super good and better, dumbing them down on purpose, which is the difference here.
5,56 and pistol ammo can now kill xenos when we know from aliens and weyland report, anchorpoint essays and other sources you need armour pericing to be able to properly effectively kill them, in aliens just one of them took a lot of pulse rifle ammo or sentry gun fire before dying.

Wolf holds two aliens in their throats with his hands, while the two xenos have their arms and legs free and tail and could stand up from the height wolf lifted them but director thought: nah they cant do anything lol. Like they forgot they have arms, legs and a tail and can still reach the floor with their legs if they wanted....
Amongst other dumbing them down when they could easily have killed wolf if they were anything like a normal xeno or one from avp 2004 movie.

OmegaZilla

OmegaZilla

#141
Rewatched the unrated cut and the movie hasn't aged that well for me scriptwise -- the fundamental problem is it's too short to build the big momentum. Otherwise, it's a great comic book film with incredible visuals for its time & budget. The creature effects are nothing short of spectacular, the real carriers of the film alongside the beautiful practical sets. It's earnest in its intentions and the homages (back when they were a 'new' thing) are neat to seek out -- I find a new one every time!

OpenMaw

I've watched it maybe three or four times since the original 2004 release.

It honestly is a movie that just gets worse each time I see it.

I don't see that the effects are all that great. They're fine. I think the creatures look awful from a design perspective. The Predator's just don't hold up well at all. There are so many clumsy and awkward shots of them. The "style" choice of using slow motion looks bad... and the cinematography, while it is "well lit" and has some dramatic shots... The whole movie has a very monochromatic color grade. Say what you will, but when Freddy vs Jason pitted those characters against each other it took advantage of the dueling color palettes. Fire for Freddy, Water for Jason. Visual flare. Color. Something.

As to the story/plot... Ya know, this is one of those things where Paul did a great job on stretching his budget, but the problem is I think he put budget into things he could have cut to focus on the star attraction. It becomes a double-edged sword.

Also, regarding the story/plot, the movie does a terrible job with exposition. It is so on the nose and direct to the audience. Let me read the wall and tell you everything. Completely devoid of any sense of mystery. It could have been handled better, and cheaper, by having Sebastian making guesses based on the set decoration without the expensive and excessive CGI flashbacks... and that money could have been put into the actual AVP-ing that movie is grimly lacking after Celtic and Grid face off.



426Buddy

I absolutely hated it upon release. However I have softened to the film over time, it's a fun B  grade adventure flick . I like the effects mostly aside from the unmasked scar, also the Resurrection design is a bummer.

But I think it is entertaining for my money.

AvPR provides no fun or entertainment value for me though. It's the worst of both series IMO.

Kradan

Quote from: 426Buddy on Oct 09, 2022, 10:10:01 PMAvPR provides no fun or entertainment value for me though. It's the worst of both series IMO.

Hear, hear !

OpenMaw

Quote from: 426Buddy on Oct 09, 2022, 10:10:01 PMI absolutely hated it upon release. However I have softened to the film over time, it's a fun B  grade adventure flick

See i've heard that take before, and will I see where it is coming from... It's just so damn ho-hum. All of the build up to getting to the pyramid just feels so... paint by numbers.. and as far as I'm concerned for a really good adventure movie you need a charismatic leading man/woman. That definitely isn't Lexx. Sebastian might have been able to pull it off with his Italian accent and gruff look, but he doesn't really get the meat to become "that guy." It could have been Colin Salmon, but, again, he gets little to do after the first act.

Quote from: 426Buddy on Oct 09, 2022, 10:10:01 PMAvPR provides no fun or entertainment value for me though. It's the worst of both series IMO.

I was embarrassed. I took my older brother and my sisters then boyfriend. We walked out... All my sisters B/F could say at the time was "'You're too stupid to talk' was the best line." My brother didn't say a damn thing. We both related to the Pizza Man's plight with the girl, though. Teenage boys, ya know?


littlesprout

Just rewatched. The older it gets the worse it is for me. The practical effects are cool. Terrible characters and plot however. I like the idea of the pyramids and predators hunting but like it was said before in this forum - mostly comic book style. Would much rather see an avp film capture the traditional alien feel when the alien is on screen and original predator when the predator is on screen.

BigDaddyJohn

Terrible movie overall, then and now.

Corporal Hicks

Quote from: OpenMaw on Oct 09, 2022, 11:06:52 PMI was embarrassed. I took my older brother and my sisters then boyfriend. We walked out... All my sisters B/F could say at the time was "'You're too stupid to talk' was the best line." My brother didn't say a damn thing.

I can relate to this. I worked at the cinema when the film came out. I was so hyped for it coming up to release and everyone knew it. All of my buddies who worked there and I went to see it on release. I just apologized as we came out.

PsyKore

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 17, 2022, 10:50:19 AM
Quote from: OpenMaw on Oct 09, 2022, 11:06:52 PMI was embarrassed. I took my older brother and my sisters then boyfriend. We walked out... All my sisters B/F could say at the time was "'You're too stupid to talk' was the best line." My brother didn't say a damn thing.

I can relate to this. I worked at the cinema when the film came out. I was so hyped for it coming up to release and everyone knew it. All of my buddies who worked there and I went to see it on release. I just apologized as we came out.

Lol. I felt embarrassed after Avp, but it had a sort of "so bad it's good" thing going on, so everyone had a good time.

Then Prometheus came out, and by all accounts it looked like a return to form and I was hyped. But man, that was hugely embarrassing walking out of the theater on that one... I didn't wanna repeat that, so when Covenant came out I purposely saw it alone. Covenant was probably the best out of the new shitty-Alien era, though.

AvPGalaxy: About | Contact | Cookie Policy | Manage Cookie Settings | Privacy Policy | Legal Info
Facebook Twitter Instagram YouTube Patreon RSS Feed
Contact: General Queries | Submit News