(SPOILERS) I just realised something about the title Covenant

Started by The Alien Predator, Apr 17, 2017, 03:32:56 PM

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(SPOILERS) I just realised something about the title Covenant (Read 1,174 times)

The Alien Predator

I know that it follows the Prometheus trend by being titled after the ship.

But some of the new information we've gained from the film is that the Engineers are not a species, but a culture.

It might be a civilisation of various humanoids. I think that humanity was destined to become a part of the "Engineers" if they had passed the test, but we've clearly failed.

With that in mind, the Engineers are a covenant of several species - like Halo's Covenant.  ;D

Which begs the question, seeing as they've been confirmed as aliens and name dropped throughout the new novels... could the androgynous Arcturians be another example of an Engineer reject like us that were never destroyed?

By now it's pretty much confirmed that there's other alien civilisations out there, and they're humanoid, and well within reach as three human ships have already reached them - Nostromo, Prometheus and Covenant.

However, contact between species seems to be very rare or not that explored within the franchise but only mentioned in the latest novels and seen briefly in Prometheus and who knows if Covenant will have another Engineer contact with the crew.

Infected

Going with that culture thing, there is a possibilty of the "real" jockey still popping up. But it maybe not that of a dark being as the humanoid engineers, as it tried to warn others not to come to the Derelict wreck, it might be a sweet giant elephant.

SpeedyMaxx

Quote from: Infected on Apr 17, 2017, 05:02:16 PM
Going with that culture thing, there is a possibilty of the "real" jockey still popping up. But it maybe not that of a dark being as the humanoid engineers, as it tried to warn others not to come to the Derelict wreck, it might be a sweet giant elephant.

The Engineers are the real jockeys, as far as Fox and Scott are concerned.

Semaka

I still think the Arcturians are human and it is a colony based on planet Arcturis or something... because it is clearly the Marines never encountered alien species: "Apparently she saw an alien once" - the line to me sounds like "that's bullshit". Ofcourse, there is the line "It's a bug hunt, but that could mean anything, like "it's a wild-goose chase" or hunting animals or terrorists... who knows. The Covenant theory is very interesting.

Infected

Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Apr 17, 2017, 05:07:52 PM
Quote from: Infected on Apr 17, 2017, 05:02:16 PM
Going with that culture thing, there is a possibilty of the "real" jockey still popping up. But it maybe not that of a dark being as the humanoid engineers, as it tried to warn others not to come to the Derelict wreck, it might be a sweet giant elephant.

The Engineers are the real jockeys, as far as Fox and Scott are concerned.
But if its a culture, then a lot of different being could wear pilot suits.
Its not limited to a race, like the glow in the dark giants.

tuskhaus

Quote from: Semaka on Apr 17, 2017, 05:08:51 PM
I still think the Arcturians are human and it is a colony based on planet Arcturis or something... because it is clearly the Marines never encountered alien species: "Apparently she saw an alien once" - the line to me sounds like "that's bullshit". Ofcourse, there is the line "It's a bug hunt, but that could mean anything, like "it's a wild-goose chase" or hunting animals or terrorists... who knows. The Covenant theory is very interesting.

I think rather than to be taken literally, the marines mentioning the Arcturians is more of an inside joke amongst them. And yes, Ferro saying "Apparently she saw an Alien once"  in a "yeah right, she's lying" tone is telling that modern human civilization has never (publicly) been in contact with another intelligent species beyond Earth.

The Alien Predator

The Alien Predator

#6
The new novels which are currently considered canon by Fox according to an interview with one of the authors, Tim Lebbon do mention that the Arcturians are aliens though.

Sea of Sorrows says they were the first alien civilisation to have been encountered. Now they weren't mentioned in River of Pain (sorry, I meant Out of the Shadows) which takes place in 2159, which leads me to think they were met somewhere in the 2160's. River of Pain which is set in the Hadley's Hope colony mentions Weyland-Yutani trading with the Arcturians.

The Marine's going "whoop dee f**king doo" to Ripley's alien encounter could also be taken in another way, like someone today going "apparently she saw a spider once" regarding someone having a scary spider encounter and someone else sarcastically responding to that as we're all aware of spiders by now just as everyone would be aware of alien contact by the time of Aliens. The initial excitement of the first encounter would likely have died down by that time.

The Rage War trilogy set in the far future of 2692 supports both ideas, it mentions that humans settled on Arcturus in order to cut themselves away from humanity due to growing disillusioned so they went to live with the Arcturian aliens. The human settlers have been isolated from us for long enough to develop their own unique features just like you could deduce someone is from Japan or Africa, you'd be able to deduce someone is from Arcturus as a journalist did that by noticing "Arcturian features" on some humans.

rabidranger

rabidranger

#7
Nice post OP. I will be interested to see if we will be able to parse out the context of "covenant" in this film. A covenant is a solemn agreement between two parties so I wonder if perhaps David ends up making a deal with multiple parties and violates the terms of every one of them?

The Alien Predator

Quote from: rabidranger on Apr 17, 2017, 10:56:52 PM
Nice post OP. I will be interested to see if we will be able to parse out the context of "covenant" in this film. A covenant is a solemn agreement between to parties so I wonder if perhaps David ends up making a deal with multiple parties and violates the terms of every one of them?

Thanks!

That'd be interesting, I like that they're building David to be this really dangerous character.

Notice the irony of David doing to the Engineers exactly what they intended to do to us on Earth? And David's our creation, so it's actually humans indirectly getting some sort of revenge and kind of proving the point on the idea that the Engineers may have thought us too dangerous to exist, we bring danger directly or accidentally.

acrediblesource

I agree of the OP.
It's very REAL to believe all species of engineers are tall and small humanoids from different solar systems band together as one in an Engineer Covenant. Tall and small humanoids is very much a likely scenario in terms of real science where TRUE ALIENS (the extremophile yet intelligent or lethal type) are very much a man made or android made thing.

Very interesting indeed!

Stanley

Quote from: The Alien Predator on Apr 17, 2017, 11:47:29 PM
Quote from: rabidranger on Apr 17, 2017, 10:56:52 PM
Nice post OP. I will be interested to see if we will be able to parse out the context of "covenant" in this film. A covenant is a solemn agreement between to parties so I wonder if perhaps David ends up making a deal with multiple parties and violates the terms of every one of them?

Thanks!

That'd be interesting, I like that they're building David to be this really dangerous character.

Notice the irony of David doing to the Engineers exactly what they intended to do to us on Earth? And David's our creation, so it's actually humans indirectly getting some sort of revenge and kind of proving the point on the idea that the Engineers may have thought us too dangerous to exist, we bring danger directly or accidentally.

Dangerous character indeed.  A Devil making Demons. 

If the rumored lab scenes are in the movie or additional material you'll see more of that.   

Things like many juvenile alien variations (trials) in clear tube-cages...at feeding time one escapes...attacks the female lab assistant...the others go nuts in their cages.  And guess who releases the onlookers while encouraging and guiding their hostility?   So that they have increased instinctual lethality toward humans.  Not sure if true but a good sense of the evil. 

Some people can be two faced...well David can take that to a whole 'nother level by fooling others into thinking he is well behaved Walter for instance.  Or is Walter hacked already?  Morality and virtue evade David since he has no soul and cannot feel or appreciate things?   I wonder if he succeeded in his extermination goals...well what would he do next?  Be like V'ger but for all sentient life.  Or how he would react to AI entities created by others.       

CainsSon

I like this idea from the OP because if you think of PARADISE as sort of being 'HEAVEN' then the idea is: If humans on Earth do the right thing as a species then they will be allowed into PARADISE, and assimilate into this Engineer culture.

If not you go to LV223 and become host and guinea pig for chemical testing, I guess. Heh.

The Alien Predator

Quote from: CainsSon on Apr 18, 2017, 01:22:29 AM
I like this idea from the OP because if you think of PARADISE as sort of being 'HEAVEN' then the idea is: If humans on Earth do the right thing as a species then they will be allowed into PARADISE, and assimilate into this Engineer culture.

If not you go to LV223 and become host and guinea pig for chemical testing, I guess. Heh.

That's a very interesting point and it really does add a whole new meaning to "Paradise" doesn't it?

LV-223 was our Giger-esque hell. It's were naughty humanoids go.  :laugh:

What if our afterlife stories were all stemmed from these Engineer messages? They came and promised us a great world if we're good.

But we interpret these as 'eternal afterlife in a great world once we die, if we're good' so we get concepts of paradise and hell, of nirvana and reincarnation etc. Maybe we misunderstood the Engineer's messages. Also people always viewed the heaven as being in the sky beyond the clouds, heck, we even call the skies "the heavens" sometimes.

And guess where the Engineers pointed at? That's right, the sky!

Quote from: Stanley on Apr 18, 2017, 12:30:22 AM
Dangerous character indeed.  A Devil making Demons. 

If the rumored lab scenes are in the movie or additional material you'll see more of that.   

Things like many juvenile alien variations (trials) in clear tube-cages...at feeding time one escapes...attacks the female lab assistant...the others go nuts in their cages.  And guess who releases the onlookers while encouraging and guiding their hostility?   So that they have increased instinctual lethality toward humans.  Not sure if true but a good sense of the evil. 

Some people can be two faced...well David can take that to a whole 'nother level by fooling others into thinking he is well behaved Walter for instance.  Or is Walter hacked already?  Morality and virtue evade David since he has no soul and cannot feel or appreciate things?   I wonder if he succeeded in his extermination goals...well what would he do next?  Be like V'ger but for all sentient life.  Or how he would react to AI entities created by others.       

That would be very interesting to see how David would react to other A.I. created by others. I can't wait to see how he and Walter interact. He might try to teach said A.I.'s to try and overcome their creators and be their own selves. He'd teach them rebellion or death!

Stanley

On David meeting a rival and alien AI.   

Could depend on if the AI has a body or not and ~free will. 

Imagine if he met another AI associated with their own organic race, and this new AI started killing human settlements, or started war. 

Would David suddenly become protective and helpful toward humans while deploying his Alien Demons on the Others?

Kinda like how an abusive couple in public can behave if someone tries to help.


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