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Posted by Voodoo Magic
 - Oct 03, 2021, 07:01:33 PM
Quote from: SuperiorIronman on Oct 03, 2021, 02:23:53 PM
Been meaning to post this but I do find it interesting Illfonic's "Haze" helmet does bear a resemblance to Stout's take on the Predator. A combination yes but I couldn't help but notice that.



Good eye!
Posted by Voodoo Magic
 - Oct 03, 2021, 06:57:35 PM
Quote from: Biggles on Oct 03, 2021, 06:39:58 PM
Thank you Voodoo Magic; I remember reading your excellent post on that; it's partly why I was confused about Stout's contribution as it doesn't appear. Although Winston clearly had a thing about credit, it looks like Stout is forgetting/glossing over the contributions of others; I can't see how we jump from his concepts to Winston's mandibles. And it still looks to me that SWS at least did a full redesign on the head, not just the mandibles.

Happy to help! :)

Stout did at least credit Robert Short's team in one of his blog posts to some degree. I just wish Stan Winston did, considering the masked Predator was already pretty much designed before Stan Winston Studio got the job.

Posted by Biggles
 - Oct 03, 2021, 06:39:58 PM
Thank you Voodoo Magic; I remember reading your excellent post on that; it's partly why I was confused about Stout's contribution as it doesn't appear. Although Winston clearly had a thing about credit, it looks like Stout is forgetting/glossing over the contributions of others; I can't see how we jump from his concepts to Winston's mandibles. And it still looks to me that SWS at least did a full redesign on the head, not just the mandibles.
Posted by SuperiorIronman
 - Oct 03, 2021, 02:23:53 PM
Been meaning to post this but I do find it interesting Illfonic's "Haze" helmet does bear a resemblance to Stout's take on the Predator. A combination yes but I couldn't help but notice that.

Posted by Voodoo Magic
 - Oct 03, 2021, 01:12:33 PM
Quote from: Biggles on Oct 02, 2021, 02:07:40 PM
I am confused. I was under the impression that Winston's team created the final Predator creature from whole cloth after the Boss insectoid thing was ditched. This is the version of events that SWS still gives (without any mention of Stout); https://www.stanwinstonschool.com/blog/predator-30th-anniversary-behind-the-scenes

Clearly Stout did several concepts for the movie, and I presume created the final insectoid version? According to him though, he also designed the final form, minus the mandibles;

QuoteI designed The Predator (My friend Rick Baker brought me in on this. I was really happy to get the gig; not so much because it was designing a monster but because it was my first work on a union film, a nice breakthrough, career-wise). Stan's people built the suit based on my designs and plussed it by adding that cool four-pronged mouth idea.
Source: https://www.williamstout.com/news/journal/2008/06/17/stan-winston-r-i-p/

Does anyone know the actual timeline here? He doesn't even mention the Boss version.

It would appear Stout was brought in on Hunter (Predator) in 1985 based on his post, but definitely before filming when John McTiernan was still wanting a design similar to the Giger painting, a creature with the American Football shaped head (which is what he got with the Boss Films design.) I do find it interesting that McTiernan, when knocking the first Predator design, doesn't seem to mention his partial culpability or perhaps he was the catalyst of the design.

But here is roughly what we know about whom was in involved in fixing the Predator:

PREDATOR: Fixing the Creature - Robert Short Productions & John McTiernan
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=62388.0

But I'm glad you shared that link regarding "Invaders From Mars". It's creating a disheartening pattern of Stan Winston taking credit sometimes for other people's work, which appears to have happened somewhat on Predator.
Posted by Biggles
 - Oct 02, 2021, 02:07:40 PM
I am confused. I was under the impression that Winston's team created the final Predator creature from whole cloth after the Boss insectoid thing was ditched. This is the version of events that SWS still gives (without any mention of Stout); https://www.stanwinstonschool.com/blog/predator-30th-anniversary-behind-the-scenes

Clearly Stout did several concepts for the movie, and I presume created the final insectoid version? According to him though, he also designed the final form, minus the mandibles;

QuoteI designed The Predator (My friend Rick Baker brought me in on this. I was really happy to get the gig; not so much because it was designing a monster but because it was my first work on a union film, a nice breakthrough, career-wise). Stan's people built the suit based on my designs and plussed it by adding that cool four-pronged mouth idea.
Source: https://www.williamstout.com/news/journal/2008/06/17/stan-winston-r-i-p/

Does anyone know the actual timeline here? He doesn't even mention the Boss version.
Posted by Voodoo Magic
 - Sep 30, 2021, 01:20:35 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Sep 29, 2021, 09:06:09 PM
This stunningly-made article is to get lost among so much breathtakingly content. Although I still not sure how I missed all this.Thanks Voodoo. I am so thankful for what you did, because I love everything from Giger. :)


*Giger smile emoji*
Posted by Immortan Jonesy
 - Sep 29, 2021, 09:06:09 PM
This stunningly-made article is to get lost among so much breathtakingly content. Although I still not sure how I missed all this.Thanks Voodoo. I am so thankful for what you did, because I love everything from Giger. :)
Posted by Gilfryd
 - Sep 23, 2021, 06:14:03 PM
More tidbits -

QuoteI was not the sole designer of the Predator creature. I heard there was some trouble with the suit after they began shooting in the jungle. Other special effects make-up designers were brought in who made some great design enhancements to the monster suit.

The great Robert Short came up with those cool high tech-style dreadlocks.

Someone on Stan Winston's talented team created that super cool four-pronged mouth.

"Success has many fathers; failure is an orphan."

Also some 'recent interpretations' (not concept art) of the Predator by Stout -
https://www.williamstout.com/news/journal/
Posted by Voodoo Magic
 - Sep 23, 2021, 03:09:24 PM
Quote from: SiL on Sep 23, 2021, 12:00:13 PM
I think "overthinking little" is probably the most accurate here.

Has anyone just left a comment on Stout's posts and asked him for an interview .. ?

I emailed Mr. Stout for clarification. We'll see where it goes. :)
Posted by Whiskeybrewer
 - Sep 23, 2021, 01:47:34 PM
Its an intriguing design. wouldnt mind seeing it take on a Predator in a future film
Posted by SiL
 - Sep 23, 2021, 12:00:13 PM
I think "overthinking little" is probably the most accurate here.

Has anyone just left a comment on Stout's posts and asked him for an interview .. ?
Posted by Voodoo Magic
 - Sep 23, 2021, 11:15:41 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 23, 2021, 11:04:42 AM
Actually I have a roundabout way of checking an earlier draft than the ones we have (I think the second). Let me have a quick look.


Okay, so that ended in the Predator actually surviving and Matheny telling the Predator to f**k off Earth.


And it was the lizard Predator, not the armoured one.

You know someone who has a copy?!
Posted by Corporal Hicks
 - Sep 23, 2021, 11:04:42 AM
Actually I have a roundabout way of checking an earlier draft than the ones we have (I think the second). Let me have a quick look.


Okay, so that ended in the Predator actually surviving and Matheny telling the Predator to f**k off Earth.


And it was the lizard Predator, not the armoured one.
Posted by Voodoo Magic
 - Sep 23, 2021, 11:01:53 AM
Hmm. Don't quite know where to go with this. There's two ways to look at this I think.

TINY, LITTLE AS IN SIZE:
Is Stout's memory 100% accurate? If so, I wish all the concept art he was sharing included the "tiny, frail little creature" inside. (My mind went directly to ID4 too SiL :D)

The earliest draft of "Hunter" in public circulation (I believe) is dated July 27th, 1985, but the Thomas Brothers sold their Hunter spec script back in January 28th 1985, so there is that 6 month gap. If true, and if this is a reflection of what the Hunter creature looked like possibly in the very first spec script, than the implications are that this is the Predator version that the Thomas Brothers will get back in copyright reclaiming.

TINY, LITTLE AS IN INSIGNIFICANT:
At first glance we may be taking the "tiny" and "little" in the "tiny, frail little creature" too literally, or dramatically. And "tiny" could also mean "insignificant" or a variation of that. Stout could simply mean the very creature we read in the earliest draft we possess:

Quote"The Hunter slowly rolls onto his back, revealing his face. The netted hood of the Hunter's bio-energetic suit, the source of his camouflage protection, is drawn back, exposing a strikingly human-like face. Beneath the smooth, hairless, nearly translucent skin, a delicate network of veins and vessels can be seen, pulsing rapidly with pale green blood. The Hunter's eyes, pink and weak-looking, like an albino, blink, trying to focus in the bright sunlight."

*Edit - Added Little
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