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all credit's go to Ja, i just did the translation. Sorry for some errors if they appear ;)



Here we go

3 years after Andersons 'masterpiece' release, Fox decided to give a chance to Brothers Strause to direct the sequel. Action begins in the same place, where AVP has ended. The Predalien is chestbursting from the body of Scar, hides onboard and waits for an opourtunity. Most of the scenes is from the Predators point of view (probably some clan leader), who decided to visit our planet.
It's been about 19 years, since i first saw ALIENS on the big screen. That unforgetable experience had enormous influence on me. I don't want to point every positive aspect of that movie, but all of you know for sure, that there isn't much motion pictures that are even comparable with it. 'Predator' for example was a proof for me, that Hollywood actually can create amazing and terryfying worlds, and the way it has been done was overhelming.
There were several attempts of adapting and resurrecting the inheritance of the 80's. AVP idea itself, born in Norwoods comic book, was more than inspiring. Clash of both species on the Planet Ryushi, where future world with colonists (alien domain), stylized on earth Texas (ranches and other more of a Predators domain) proved, that connecting this worlds is possible and works fine. All you need is right people with good ideas.
Dark Horse sustained that trend for a long time, but when Fox decided to try earn money on sucking dry successful licences, everything turned out not the way it should be. Let's begin with basics, which is:

The Script

AVPR, as well as it's 'great' predecessor, have issues with two assumptions on which the whole construction of the world portrayed in this movie is based on. The Setting is earth, in present times. It's very difficult to fit alien in this enviroment. And it's even harder, when the plot is mainly the massacre of small town population. Aliens taken out from their dark gothic enviroment became... just another monsters, which we already have tons of. With Predator the situation isn't better. Lack of amazonian or urban jungle takes away his hunter dignity.
Jim Davis, the producer of 'Predator' and AVP, decided to favorize his pupil in terms of setting, and forced Shane Salerno to write the scripts telling us story about the clash of the species... on Earth. The result is kinda sad I'm afraid. The small town doesn't fit as an arena for ultimate battle between two extra-terrestial beings at all. It isn't comparable with Ryushi even in one bit. Colourful small houses, pizza house, swimming pool. The set pieces planning looks to be accidental, and putting there alien and hunter shows lack of concept. To hide plain compromitation, separate acts of the script were primitively modified. We won't see alien during the day. In the first act they are placed in the sewers. Just when it's getting dark, aliens will get to the surface to take control over Gunnison. Here we have one of the major issues about this movie. Once again the creators weren't able to handle one very important thing - planning the action in an interesting way, instead we have chaos. As i wrote earlier, small US town setting isn't helping. The purpose of Predator actions just increase that impression and we are never able to get his motivation fully. Is it an alien hunt, predalien hunt, cleaning? We will never know for sure. When the major plot turn appears along with gory fighting, everything that was build in the first act should grow, but...
Till this time we are seeing the gallery of characters written in few minutes during the coffee break on a knee at it's best. Forget about any depth in them. "Rednecks" are jsut meat to be butchered. Only the chosen ones will be able to survive. Salerno/Strause made an assumption similiar to creators of Alien and Aliens. No one stands up from the crowd - we don't know, who's gonna survive. The problem is that in previous movies somebody actually cared about creating interesting characters and behaviours, which made the confrontations with aliens harder/easier/more interesting. It's what we're missing in AVPR.
Characters are two dimensional and we don't care about them for even a second. Rip-offs are there as well - tough mother (driving APC) and small girl (seeing monsters, which shouldn't exist). When we get to group being formed, we can safely assume their fate in terms of characters they are based on. And we aren't suprised at all.
Summing up, this is script on an Anderson level. Amateur, revised several times after first draft from original author.

The directing

It's Brothers Strause big screen debut. From making commercials they are thrown into full lentgh motion picture, about which most of us had high hopes of. They got a very poor script and had to turn out to be genius, like Cameron for example, to create a visual interpretation of Salernos crap.
Me, in opposition to the major audience, don't have any issues with Finchers Alien3. it's errors are only Gilers fault, which was sending next pages of the script via fax during the production. However the visual style of Alien3 makes it the most beautiful installment of the saga. How AVPR looks?
It Looks average. The Bros didn't work out any (at least recognizable) style. most of the movie action takes place during the night. Dark and poor weather conditions (including heavy rain) aren't building tension as they should be. Add to that very poorly presented aliens. And not only that, they were also poorly designed and built. Their overlook, prepared by 'the specialists' from ADI, aren't even mediocre. Their appearing on the screen is poor too - covered in dark and bad lightning (not climatic, as it should be). The Predator turns to be better, but it might be because of the hunting during the day and the darkness in his case could work as his camouflage. But it's hard to tell if that thing had any influence, because generally the visuals of this movie were on a level of a common popcorn flick.
Screwed up vision translates to low quality confrontations between predator and aliens (including predalien). Acid-blooded guys are hissing, appearing from nowhere (literally), and the predator is butchering them, the oversized bugs (vht: take a note, that it actually comes from Cameron ALIENS fan!). This again has nothing to do with building the tension. From the very beginning we know, that the final battle will be between the Predator and the Predalien. Till then we have a forced portrait of how tough and ruthless they are. Here's one of the biggest gripes of predator presence - don't get me wrong, hunter in AVPR is designed and presented much more better than that gang of goofies in AVP. The problem is that Brothers Strause clearly forced "going back to the roots" route, no matter the cost. The Predator is cruel, and we should be thankful, but if only there would be consequence to that. Wolf kills only one person and gets him skinned. All the following victims are getting killed by accident, or the violence is toned down, and again accidental. CGI blood definetely isn't helping. To be honest, the movie loses very much because of that. Gore looks like very incompetently mixed in - digital blood differs from the real one. Brothers Strause use current generation experience - lots of blood from a computer game. It isn't giving good impression. But they go further and count on the SHOCK effect. Scenes, like chestbursting little boy, raping a pregnant woman etc., are a clear message to the audience - "We are not Anderson!". Of course you're not guys, but it isn't the reason to do these things without thinking them over. Gore shots don't have such value, as they had in Alien for example (Kane and his 'son'). There the whole scene fit very fell and actually had influence on how we see the alien, the creature born from blood, demanding more and more of it. With Strause problem is that gore shots are medium disgusting, and even in few places looks like they were scared by them themselves. And we can't forget about small town residents. As for a movie about total doom bringed by extra-terrestial beings, it is sparing the whole destruction image a lot. We're still following only few people, just like they were the only one living in Gunnison. There's lack of bigger shots with aliens butchering people on the streets for example.

Generally

...AVPR's compromitation, as well as it was with the Anderson movie, begins in the second act. Maybe i don't know that, but i thought that National Guard don't resemble regular army forces. Why did platoons arrive to Gunnison, that looks like they've been taken out straight from Kabul one moment ago?
Stupidity in terms of respecting Alien and Predator canon is another issue. Hunter starts new profession and gets rid of the bodies, both alien and human, and the viewer don't have any idea why. He grabs his shoulder cannon, and thanks to that from distinguish hunter he is becoming bad cowboy with a gun. His confrontations with aliens look awkward. Punches, kicks and wrestling. Alien isn't better. While Adnerson screwed up the time of reproduction cycle, bros are trying to make us belive, that whole hive structure can be build in the matter of few hours.

The Workshop

Unfortunatley the unexperienced brothers did mistakes in filming action sequences too. Attempts to get to the chopper on the roof are nothing more, than shooting in the dark. Habit taken from the work on commercials and video clips brings chopped editing. Especially in terms of alien versus predator fights.

At the end
.. i'll tell you, that movie grand finale was dissapointing the most. Complete absence of inteligent end of subplots. Lack of justice hurt the monsters the most. Alien and predator became the main characters of the movie and their end is... VERY DISSAPOINTING.
As the whole movie. 

ouch, doesn't sound good :-\

...  :-[

So the humans blow them to smitherines.  ::)  Oh great. At least AvP had an good ending...

Quote from: War Wager on Dec 19, 2007, 09:33:19 PM
So the humans blow them to smitherines.  ::)  Oh great. At least AvP had an good ending...

We must have been watching very different movies then... :-\

I would like to say a few things: 1, great review man, very well made, structured and cohesive. It gave the information it meant to, and stated it in a mature fashion. But, there are a few problems with your review. In any film there has to be some good points, and you didn't list any. From what Ive seen, there has to be SOME good points in the film that can be highlighted. Also, could you elaborate a bit more on the special effects and modelling aspects and what your opinions about that where. Second, while its a good review, I am going to hold judgement until ive seen the film for myself, which will be weeks away, since I live in New Zealand, meaning its coming here about January 18th :-\

All I hear about from people who seen this film is:

Predator are owning the aliens. Is that why this movie isent any good?

Add to that very poorly presented aliens. And not only that, they were also poorly designed and built. Their overlook, prepared by 'the specialists' from ADI, aren't even mediocre. Their appearing on the screen is poor too - covered in dark and bad lightning (not climatic, as it should be). The Predator turns to be better, but it might be because of the hunting during the day and the darkness in his case could work as his camouflage. But it's hard to tell if that thing had any influence, because generally the visuals of this movie were on a level of a common popcorn flick.

Nice one ADI. ;)




Screwed up vision translates to low quality confrontations between predator and aliens (including predalien). Acid-blooded guys are hissing, appearing from nowhere (literally), and the predator is butchering them, the oversized bugs (vht: take a note, that it actually comes from Cameron ALIENS fan!). This again has nothing to do with building the tension. From the very beginning we know, that the final battle will be between the Predator and the Predalien. Till then we have a forced portrait of how tough and ruthless they are.

Looks like S1 and S2 did an excellent job at portraying the Aliens. ;D
Do yourselves a favor and forget about ruining the franchise anymore.



At the end
.. i'll tell you, that movie grand finale was dissapointing the most. Complete absence of inteligent end of subplots. Lack of justice hurt the monsters the most. Alien and predator became the main characters of the movie and their end is... VERY DISSAPOINTING.
As the whole movie. 

Well...  :-X :P

Quote from: Lionhart on Dec 19, 2007, 09:43:04 PM
All I hear about from people who seen this film is:

Predator are owning the aliens. Is that why this movie isent any good?

Seems that way, unfortunately. Ok, Im gonna start up a thread so everyone can state what they think that a ultimate AVP movie should be about. Hopefully it will get stickied so everyone can post in there opinion.

Come on, guys, you honestly didn't expect that?

Oh yeah, you really didn't.

QuoteFrom what Ive seen, there has to be SOME good points in the film that can be highlighted.

Why? Maybe the movie doesn't have good aspects - mediocre even at it's best? I wouldn't be surprised.

I hope the Strause's won't be allowed to touch any movie of these franchises again. Yeah, I'm judging the movie before I've seen it. I've seen and read enough already.

QuoteAll I hear about from people who seen this film is:

Predator are owning the aliens. Is that why this movie isent any good?

I must ask: Have you even read the review or is it too much letters for you?

Great review JA, couldn't do better.

Quote from: Gacu666 on Dec 19, 2007, 09:49:47 PM
Great review JA, couldn't do better.

Here we go again.....

What's your problem dude?

Quote from: Irritator on Dec 19, 2007, 09:48:47 PM
I must ask: Have you even read the review or is it too much letters are there too many letters for you?

I've made the necessary changes...   :D

Very well done review.

Quote from: Necronomicon on Dec 19, 2007, 09:52:03 PM

Quote from: Gacu666 on Dec 19, 2007, 09:49:47 PM
Great review JA, couldn't do better.

Here we go again.....

Yeah, that damn congratulating on taking your time writing a long and detailed spoiler-free review for other fans' sake MUST STOP.

Quote from: T-X on Dec 19, 2007, 09:52:56 PM

Quote from: Irritator on Dec 19, 2007, 09:48:47 PM
I must ask: Have you even read the review or is it too much letters are there too many letters for you?

I've made the necessary changes...   :D

I think the word your looking for is fixed. And thank you.

Quote from: Irritator on Dec 19, 2007, 09:48:47 PM
Come on, guys, you honestly didn't expect that?

Oh yeah, you really didn't.

QuoteFrom what Ive seen, there has to be SOME good points in the film that can be highlighted.

Why? Maybe the movie doesn't have good aspects - mediocre even at it's best? I wouldn't be surprised.

I hope the Strause's won't be allowed to touch any movie of these franchises again. Yeah, I'm judging the movie before I've seen it. I've seen and read enough already.

QuoteAll I hear about from people who seen this film is:

Predator are owning the aliens. Is that why this movie isent any good?

I must ask: Have you even read the review or is it too much letters for you?

Most of the review is movie sucks because the Predator are bad ass/ Something like that.

This is just another review of yet another overly harsh critic comparing the movie to other films like Gone With The Wind, if it isn't a masterpiece or has a mistake here and there the movie is already crap in their book, trolls trolls trolls!!!

This movie is suppose to be a fun movie, a fun action horror movie, it's not suppose to be this film were it changes your life or has a message of piece in it ::)

Like I said, I don't care what these people think, I know the movie is going to rock.

Quote from: Gacu666 on Dec 19, 2007, 09:52:43 PM
What's your problem dude?

My only problem is the attitude most people here have towards the people on this board who do not want their opinions made by others, regardless of what they have seen. I've been a fan of both franchises for almost 20 years and just because I am looking forward still to seeing this movie it does not mean everyone else has a right to shove their opinions' down someone else's throat.
Sure, you didn't like the film, that's fine, let the rest of us come to our own conclusion.

In the end it's more of a personal thing, and nothing against you, I just wish everyone would relax, it's only a freaking movie.

I think he could have at least commented on some good aspects. Sounds just like a bash instead of a critque.

Quote from: Lionhart on Dec 19, 2007, 09:54:55 PM
Most of the review is movie sucks because the Predator are bad ass/ Something like that.

Isn't the fact that the reviewer was confused as to why the hunter was spending time cleaning and getting in badly choreographed fights a clue enough as to how wrong your statement is? It's not that the Predator was awesome in the reviewer's eyes that makes the movie bad, it's that he couldn't figure out the logic behind it and didn't find it bad@ss at all. It sort of sounds like you skimmed the article at the first sign of negativity.

Quote from: Lionhart on Dec 19, 2007, 09:54:55 PM
Most of the review is movie sucks because the Predator are bad ass/ Something like that.

Like

QuoteLack of amazonian or urban jungle takes away his hunter dignity.

and

QuoteThe Predator is cruel, and we should be thankful, but if only there would be consequence to that. Wolf kills only one person and gets him skinned. All the following victims are getting killed by accident, or the violence is toned down, and again accidental.

or

QuoteHe grabs his shoulder cannon, and thanks to that from distinguish hunter he is becoming bad cowboy with a gun. His confrontations with aliens look awkward. Punches, kicks and wrestling.

?

Yeah, it's totally about Predator being a badass, sorry.

Necronomicon, you seem very unsure about people forming your opinion. Relax, it's just a freaking review.

Quote from: Necronomicon on Dec 19, 2007, 09:56:07 PM

Quote from: Gacu666 on Dec 19, 2007, 09:52:43 PM
What's your problem dude?

My only problem is the attitude most people here have towards the people on this board who do not want their opinions made by others, regardless of what they have seen. I've been a fan of both franchises for almost 20 years and just because I am looking forward still to seeing this movie it does not mean everyone else has a right to shove their opinions' down someone else's throat.
Sure, you didn't like the film, that's fine, let the rest of us come to our own conclusion.

In the end it's more of a personal thing, and nothing against you, I just wish everyone would relax, it's only a freaking movie.

I understand altough im not persuading anyone my point of view, im just sharing it, there's a difference :).

Quote from: Irritator on Dec 19, 2007, 09:48:47 PM

I hope the Strause's won't be allowed to touch any movie of these franchises again. Yeah, I'm judging the movie before I've seen it. I've seen and read enough already.

Amen to that.

Im terrified with what horrors they would come up with by themselves in another shitty sequel.

hopefully Fox pulls the plug.

well, Guess I have to se it to judge it as I said before.

Everyone has their own reasons for liking disliking something. Sure, they are amongst the first to have seen the film that we know of, but these reviews seem very biased and come from a specific perspective rather than being impartial (though not even in movie reviews is this procedure followed; we all inject our own biases or try not to in some cases). Like I've said before, some people liked Aliens, some people didn't, just like some will like this one, and some won't... apples, and oranges....

Quote from: Necronomicon on Dec 19, 2007, 10:03:12 PM
Everyone has their own reasons for liking disliking something. Sure, they are amongst the first to have seen the film that we know of, but these reviews seem very biased and come from a specific perspective rather than being impartial (though not even in movie reviews is this procedure followed; we all inject our own biases or try not to in some cases). Like I've said before, some people liked Aliens, some people didn't, just like some will like this one, and some won't... apples, and oranges....

Agree!

Quote from: Irritator on Dec 19, 2007, 09:48:47 PM
I hope the Strause's won't be allowed to touch any movie of these franchises again. Yeah, I'm judging the movie before I've seen it. I've seen and read enough already.

I hope i wont read another Bullshit like that from you again ...  ::)

greetz

We're all following the tune of our own piper when it comes to these films. I don't see where all the disparaging comments about one another spring from.

Quote from: $cHm0cK on Dec 19, 2007, 11:08:16 PM

Quote from: Irritator on Dec 19, 2007, 09:48:47 PM
I hope the Strause's won't be allowed to touch any movie of these franchises again. Yeah, I'm judging the movie before I've seen it. I've seen and read enough already.

I hope i wont read another Bullshit like that from you in the future ...  ::)

greetz

I read your posts as bullshit same way you see his. It all a matter of opinion. *shrugs*

guess you didn't realize that.

Well, most of this seems that the Bros aren't the major problem...most reviews say bad writing, bad setting, both of which the bros had nothing to do with...

This review is far better than the official 'good' review.

Quote from: Spaghetti on Dec 19, 2007, 11:13:04 PM
I read your posts as bullshit same way you see his. It all a matter of opinion. *shrugs*

You dont get it .. dont you .. he's really judging the movie by reviews and clips/trailers ... this IS bullshit!

But well .. i dont care .. especially about such a crap! I'm looking forward to this movie .. yay .. just one week!

greetz

Quote from: $cHm0cK on Dec 19, 2007, 11:19:14 PM
You dont get it .. dont you .. he's really judging the movie by reviews and clips/trialers ... this IS bullshit!

he spend many hours to write something about he feels for fans, that will completely avoid any spoiler that could ruin something for somebody (and you can't even imagine how hard it is), and you call it bullshit?

no comments. you're very rude shmock, very  >:(

Quote from: $cHm0cK on Dec 19, 2007, 11:19:14 PM

Quote from: Spaghetti on Dec 19, 2007, 11:13:04 PM
I read your posts as bullshit same way you see his. It all a matter of opinion. *shrugs*

You dont get it .. dont you .. he's really judging the movie by reviews and clips/trailers ... this IS bullshit!

But well .. i dont care .. especially about such a crap! I'm looking forward to this movie .. yay .. just one week!

greetz

That's as real as it comes buddy. He didn't like the movie.

That's his opinion. Your's could be different or maybe the same.

Oh, and for the record...who's atually surpised that the first reveiws are bad?

I think what's happened is the hype didn't live up to the expectations. I could see that. Maybe down the line he will feel different.

That happens to me a lot. I hated the Punisher and Blade Trinity when they came out. But when I saw them on TV they weren't so bad.

Just another review from another alien fanboy, as it seems.
They are always complaining about how shitty the aliens are portrayed, but in terms of predator they only say: Ohh well, he´s fine... but the aliens... basically the same thing as the first avp.

And here we go again, i dont give a damn about some wanna be Roger Ebert´s opinion.

I will watch it next week, and i´m only getting more and more hyped with each bad review. 8) :D

Quote from: $cHm0cK on Dec 19, 2007, 11:19:14 PM

Quote from: Spaghetti on Dec 19, 2007, 11:13:04 PM
I read your posts as bullshit same way you see his. It all a matter of opinion. *shrugs*

You dont get it .. dont you .. he's really judging the movie by reviews and clips/trailers ... this IS bullshit!

But well .. i dont care .. especially about such a crap! I'm looking forward to this movie .. yay .. just one week!

greetz

One week for you. Like a month or three weeks for me.

Quote from: $cHm0cK on Dec 19, 2007, 11:19:14 PM
You dont get it .. dont you .. he's really judging the movie by reviews and clips/trailers ... this IS bullshit!

Isn't that what you're supposed to do before you decide to see a movie?
Isn't that what the clip, trailers, and reviews are there for?

Well personaly i'll take only one review into my oppion of the movie...my own...

anyway we're in a time of people wanting it perfect and if they don't think it is execally how the wanted it they hate it...most people are never happy or thankful were getting anything...oh well, i'll watch the movie regardless

Quote from: Spaghetti on Dec 19, 2007, 11:27:52 PM

Quote from: $cHm0cK on Dec 19, 2007, 11:19:14 PM
You dont get it .. dont you .. he's really judging the movie by reviews and clips/trailers ... this IS bullshit!

Isn't that what you're supposed to do before you decide to see a movie?
Isn't that what the clip, trailers, and reviews are there for?

He's saying you shouldn't assume until you see.

Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Dec 19, 2007, 11:26:43 PM
Just another review from another alien fanboy, as it seems.
They are always complaining about how shitty the aliens are portrayed, but in terms of predator they only say: Ohh well, he´s fine... but the aliens... basically the same thing as the first avp.

So when you whine and complain about how the predators are portrayed in AVP and how Anderson is an "Alien fanboy" even though everything revolved around the predators, its OK. And your perfectly right.

oh wait, but its "revenge" for AVP right?

Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Dec 19, 2007, 11:24:30 PM
Oh, and for the record...who's atually surpised that the first reveiws are bad?

I'm not, I actually expected it!

Quote
Isn't that what you're supposed to do before you decide to see a movie?

To be true, absolutley not.
I have seen movies in theaters that had a bad review, and i enjoyed it and vice versa. I´ll give you a advice, judge the movie after you have seen it no matter what ayone says about it, and do that with any movie you are planning on seing.

Havent you heard the youtube guy that said that predator is BS? So predator has to be BS?
Just another opinion from another guy in another country... and thats all.

QuoteSo when you whine and complain about how the predators are portrayed in AVP and how Anderson is an "Alien fanboy" even though everything revolved around the predators, its OK. And your perfectly right.

oh wait, but its "revenge" for AVP right?

Dont know what are you talking about and to be true, i couldnt care less.

Quote from: vehtam on Dec 19, 2007, 11:22:48 PM

Quote from: $cHm0cK on Dec 19, 2007, 11:19:14 PM
You dont get it .. dont you .. he's really judging the movie by reviews and clips/trialers ... this IS bullshit!

he spend many hours to write something about he feels for fans, that will completely avoid any spoiler that could ruin something for somebody (and you can't even imagine how hard it is), and you call it bullshit?

no comments. you're very rude shmock, very  >:(

And his opinion is respected, or should be, but it is no means omnipotent..... all of this your  perspective... as far as the bullshit comments go, someone could spend months, years, writing a screenplay and that does not equate to my having to not call it bullshit when I see it fit.

Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Dec 19, 2007, 11:33:20 PM
To be true, absolutley not.
I have seen movies in theaters that had a bad review, and i enjoyed it and vice versa. I´ll give you a advice, judge the movie after you have seen it no matter what ayone says about it, and do that with any movie you are planning on seing.

If thats how you see movies then thats cool, Im sure there are movies with bad reviews and whatnot that you find to be fun movies. Hidden jewels. But when I watch trailers, movies clips and read reviews and I find them uninteresting of just plain bad in my opinion, I don't waste my money.

QuoteDont know what are you talking about and to be true, i couldnt care less.

Then why did you respond? I was talking about hypocrisy in short.

Quote from: Demonio Cazador on Dec 19, 2007, 11:33:13 PM

Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Dec 19, 2007, 11:24:30 PM
Oh, and for the record...who's atually surpised that the first reveiws are bad?

I'm not, I actually expected it!

I slightly expected this to happen, but I didn't know it was going to be that bad. :-[

But you do waste your time on this site...

QuoteIf thats how you see movies then thats cool, Im sure there are movies with bad reviews and whatnot that you find to be fun movies. Hidden jewels. But when I watch trailers, movies clips and read reviews and I find them uninteresting of just plain bad in my opinion, I don't waste my money.

Fair play, of course im getting hyped up from a trailer, or not, and sometimes i dont like the trailer so i dont watch the movie. All i was saying is that you really shouldnt give a damn about something someone said about a movie, especially when its some fanboy who is expecting another Predator/alien masterpiece.

This movie will be fun, 90 minutes of fun and entertainment, good enough for me, i never expected anything else from a VS movie with a low budget.

QuoteThen why did you respond? I was talking about hypocrisy in short.

You had me quoted, so i gave my opinion on the thing. ;)

Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Dec 19, 2007, 11:49:10 PM
But you do waste your time on this site...

Who you talking about? Me or someone else?

Quote from: Khan on Dec 19, 2007, 11:54:35 PM

Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Dec 19, 2007, 11:49:10 PM
But you do waste your time on this site...

Who you talking about? Me or someone else?

The one talking about wasting money also know as that guy who "Hates everything."

Quoteand i´m only getting more and more hyped with each bad review.  

^ Rock on brotha! I'm with you all the way! The evil Sil and Gatallions will not stop us alien or pred fans from seeing the movie. I wonder why Colin and Greg haven't talked in awhile, I wonder how there feeling.

Quote from: Necronomicon on Dec 19, 2007, 11:40:02 PM
And his opinion is respected, or should be, but it is no means omnipotent..... all of this your  perspective... as far as the bullshit comments go, someone could spend months, years, writing a screenplay and that does not equate to my having to not call it bullshit when I see it fit.

are you serious? it isn't opinion, is shitting and pissing all the way at somebodies hard work done for fans.

i can as well call somebody a brainless prick and it will be fine to you, because it's my "opinion"? wtf are you talking about man?  >:(

You're entitled to speak your mind however you want to, if you want to call people's names you have every right. You answered my entire point in your last sentence: it's all about opinion, plain and simple, no need to make it more difficult than it is. You hated the film, others will come to their own conclusions, I thank everyone for their reviews because without them we wouldn't be having our present discussion; which is good for the community.

Quote from: Necronomicon on Dec 20, 2007, 12:06:41 AM
You're entitled to speak your mind however you want to, if you want to call people's names you have every right. You answered my entire point in your last sentence: it's all about opinion, plain and simple, no need to make it more difficult than it is. You hated the film, others will come to their own conclusions, I thank everyone for their reviews because without them we wouldn't be having our present discussion; which is good for the community.

sorry, but when some guy spend couple of hours writing it BECASUE PEOPLE ASKED HIM FOR IT, and then i'm translating it for another couple of hours BECAUSE PEOPLE ASKED ME FOR IT, and then comes shmock and give us big 'f**k you' in the face, something is definetly wrong.

he is not stating his opinion about how guys feel about the movie, he's calling us liers which are making things up. that's not f**king opinion.

and i haven't seen the movie yet. the only thing i'm sure about it and hate to the guts is designs, because we already saw a lot of pictures and footage with them. you're missing the point there.

and i thought fan base at least be thankful for spending so much f**king time to show somebody opinion, which right you're defending so much right now. shit.

Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Dec 19, 2007, 11:55:56 PM

Quote from: Khan on Dec 19, 2007, 11:54:35 PM

Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Dec 19, 2007, 11:49:10 PM
But you do waste your time on this site...

Who you talking about? Me or someone else?

The one talking about wasting money also know as that guy who "Hates everything."

Who "Hates everything?" thats an ignorant statement.

Quote from: Spaghetti on Dec 20, 2007, 12:17:08 AM

Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Dec 19, 2007, 11:55:56 PM

Quote from: Khan on Dec 19, 2007, 11:54:35 PM

Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Dec 19, 2007, 11:49:10 PM
But you do waste your time on this site...

Who you talking about? Me or someone else?

The one talking about wasting money also know as that guy who "Hates everything."

Who "Hates everything?" thats an ignorant statement.

i haven't seen one positive thing...so genrealy you hate everything

Quote from: vehtam on Dec 20, 2007, 12:13:13 AM

Quote from: Necronomicon on Dec 20, 2007, 12:06:41 AM
You're entitled to speak your mind however you want to, if you want to call people's names you have every right. You answered my entire point in your last sentence: it's all about opinion, plain and simple, no need to make it more difficult than it is. You hated the film, others will come to their own conclusions, I thank everyone for their reviews because without them we wouldn't be having our present discussion; which is good for the community.

sorry, but when some guy spend couple of hours writing it BECASUE PEOPLE ASKED HIM FOR IT, and then i'm translating it for another couple of hours BECAUSE PEOPLE ASKED ME FOR IT, and then comes shmock and give us big 'f**k you' in the face, something is definetly wrong.

he is not stating his opinion about how guys feel about the movie, he's calling us liers which are making things up. that's not f**king opinion.

and i haven't seen the movie yet. the only thing i'm sure about it and hate to the guts is designs, because we already saw a lot of pictures and footage with them. you're missing the point there.

and i thought fan base at least be thankful for spending so much f**king time to show somebody opinion, which right you're defending so much right now. shit.

I certainly would not call you a liar, that would be ridiculous - no one here has lied about anything (not the fans at least). But we should try and respect the fact that at least this was what most of the people who asked for it wanted- a review, from a particular fan's perspective; if they didn't like it, tough sh*t. My main beef is that some people are taking this way out of proportion based on a few reviews... not everyone, but some. Salerno was the worst choice for a script-writer here, but I will base my judgment of that when I see it on Tuesday, maybe I will find it enjoyable, and I wouldn't be wrong for doing so.

In the mean time, let's not tear each other to pieces here.... 

Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Dec 19, 2007, 11:26:43 PM
Just another review from another alien fanboy, as it seems.
They are always complaining about how shitty the aliens are portrayed, but in terms of predator they only say: Ohh well, he´s fine... but the aliens... basically the same thing as the first avp.

Damn, that's impressive.
A few posts ago I quoted the sentences in the review that criticise the portrayal of the Predator. Let me spell it out for ya again:

Quote from: Irritator on Dec 19, 2007, 09:59:20 PM

Quote from: Lionhart on Dec 19, 2007, 09:54:55 PM
Most of the review is movie sucks because the Predator are bad ass/ Something like that.

Like

QuoteLack of amazonian or urban jungle takes away his hunter dignity.

and

QuoteThe Predator is cruel, and we should be thankful, but if only there would be consequence to that. Wolf kills only one person and gets him skinned. All the following victims are getting killed by accident, or the violence is toned down, and again accidental.

or

QuoteHe grabs his shoulder cannon, and thanks to that from distinguish hunter he is becoming bad cowboy with a gun. His confrontations with aliens look awkward. Punches, kicks and wrestling.

?

Yeah, it's totally about Predator being a badass, sorry.

He didn't like the Predator's perfmorance either, though he appreciated the design.

Quotei haven't seen one positive thing...so genrealy you hate everything

That's awesome. "He didn't tell anything positive, therefore, he must be all negative."

How about this: "Major Alan Schaefer has never been talking about having sex with girls, therefore, he must enjoy group gay banging".

Eh?

Good thing everyone on this site is a movie expert...  :D

Quote from: Necronomicon on Dec 20, 2007, 12:20:09 AM
I certainly would not call you a liar, that would be ridiculous - no one here has lied about anything (not the fans at least).

so tell that to shmock and stop protecting him, while his pissing on us. there's a difference between an opinion and an insult. but ok, let's back on topic.

p.s. next time somebody over here will ask me for something, i will consider it for a looong time.  :(

vehtam thanks for doing that.

Quote from: vehtam on Dec 20, 2007, 12:24:42 AM

Quote from: Necronomicon on Dec 20, 2007, 12:20:09 AM
I certainly would not call you a liar, that would be ridiculous - no one here has lied about anything (not the fans at least).

so tell that to shmock and stop protecting him, while his pissing on us. there's a difference between an opinion and an insult. but ok, let's back on topic.

p.s. next time somebody over here will ask me for something, i will consider it for a looong time.  :(

I'm not defending him, but I am "defending" everyone's right to say what they want when they have seen the finished product for themselves.

Quote from: Necronomicon on Dec 20, 2007, 12:26:26 AM
I'm not defending him, but I am "defending" everyone's right to say what they want when they have seen the finished product for themselves.

so you see for yourself that shmock comment is complete opposite, to what you're trying to do. he deserves slap in the face for calling us bullshitters, which are lying and writing bullshit based on trailers and online footage.

Quote from: echobbase79 on Dec 20, 2007, 12:25:47 AM

vehtam thanks for doing that.

i'm glad some people are actually thankful for that, good to hear that man, but really big thanks should go to Ja :)

Quote from: vehtam on Dec 20, 2007, 12:31:48 AM

Quote from: Necronomicon on Dec 20, 2007, 12:26:26 AM
I'm not defending him, but I am "defending" everyone's right to say what they want when they have seen the finished product for themselves.

so you see for yourself that shmock comment is complete opposite, to what you're trying to do. he deserves slap in the face for calling us bullshitters, which are lying and writing bullshit based on trailers and online footage.

Quote from: echobbase79 on Dec 20, 2007, 12:25:47 AM

vehtam thanks for doing that.

i'm glad some people are actually thankful for that, good to hear that man, but really big thanks should go to Ja :)

Well thank him too.

Quote from: vehtam on Dec 20, 2007, 12:31:48 AM

Quote from: Necronomicon on Dec 20, 2007, 12:26:26 AM
I'm not defending him, but I am "defending" everyone's right to say what they want when they have seen the finished product for themselves.

so you see for yourself that shmock comment is complete opposite, to what you're trying to do. he deserves slap in the face for calling us bullshitters, which are lying and writing bullshit based on trailers and online footage.

Quote from: echobbase79 on Dec 20, 2007, 12:25:47 AM

vehtam thanks for doing that.

i'm glad some people are actually thankful for that, good to hear that man, but really big thanks should go to Ja :)

My opinion is that what schmock is allegedly doing/saying while his opinion is not right.... it's an internet forum for fans to discuss the film, not call each other names if we disagree. Sure, nothing is perfect and we can't all hold hands and sing songs and shit-like that, but we shouldn't be calling each other liars, or other uglier names, just because we disagree with one another....

Thanks to vehtam, Ja, and whoever else I've missed for at least taking their time to write their reviews up. Now, whether or not we will all agree on this come next Tuesday is yet to be seen.... 'til then, let's be civil, no?

sure sure, let's back on topic, sorry for that, i've got little angry. i think i'll just stop reading his posts, if bashing and calling names is his way of living instead of constructive criticism.

sounds good to me, and no worry man, I would be upset too.... we're only human.

Edit: Opps i post in the wrong topic lol.

that review sounds like a movie i want to see.....

Quote from: PHANTOM on Dec 19, 2007, 09:55:57 PM
This is just another review of yet another overly harsh critic comparing the movie to other films like Gone With The Wind, if it isn't a masterpiece or has a mistake here and there the movie is already crap in their book, trolls trolls trolls!!!

This movie is suppose to be a fun movie, a fun action horror movie, it's not suppose to be this film were it changes your life or has a message of piece in it ::)

Like I said, I don't care what these people think, I know the movie is going to rock.

You took the words right out of my mouth, could'nt agree more! God forbid its not a masterpiece.

the sad part like the first avp they didnt screened it to teh press kinda liek this time around n i dont quite believe meuch these reviews simple reasons is cuz they said there wouldnt be any screening but if they  about n they screening anyways then that dont say much good news... but like isaid be4 ill be standing inline  ;D

It looks like it game over for both series if the movie fails at the box office.

Quote from: Ratchetcomand on Dec 20, 2007, 01:50:52 AM
It looks like it game over for both series if the movie fails at the box office.

and from those nagative reviews i tihnk it just might.............

I think if this movie does fail, fox will just make the series separate again.

Quote from: Ratchetcomand on Dec 20, 2007, 01:52:55 AM
I think if this movie does fail, fox will just make the series separate again.

I think this will be the final installment from both franchises  :-\ sry but it is the truth if this movie makes shit well what is the point of making a alien 5 or pred 3 that no one will see

If this is the end of the series then they should have ended it like they did with star wars.

Quote from: Ratchetcomand on Dec 20, 2007, 02:00:53 AM
If this is the end of the series then they should have ended it like they did with star wars.

Someone screaming "NOOO!" then a chestburster coming out of them?

Quote from: Ratchetcomand on Dec 20, 2007, 02:00:53 AM
If this is the end of the series then they should have ended it like they did with star wars.

Which star wars u want Wolf to get a medal or rule the universe  ???

Quote from: Irritator on Dec 20, 2007, 12:20:49 AM
How about this: "Major Alan Schaefer has never been talking about having sex with girls, therefore, he must enjoy group gay banging".

Eh?

:D

Anyway, Im not surprised at all about this review, as I was expecting this for some time now. I am really surprised on how people here will just go out and tell anyone who doesn't like what they see and put their opinions down as 'haters', or 'bashing alien fanboys' even when someone puts their opinion up in a mature way, and actually puts something they didn't like about the predator too, and not just the aliens. But I guess I should smack myself for being so stupid, as its so obvious.

Quote from: Dragon-Pred on Dec 20, 2007, 02:03:44 AM

Quote from: Ratchetcomand on Dec 20, 2007, 02:00:53 AM
If this is the end of the series then they should have ended it like they did with star wars.

Which star wars u want Wolf to get a medal or rule the universe  ???

If this is the end of the series then they should make good and epic just like Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith was.

Yes but some people go over board. By making a joke out of it, or try to be sarcastic, like "This movie rocks! :roll eyes:" If they would just leave there opinion and not just FORCE there opinion by quoting someones opinion.

Its so sad if this is the end. In terms of franchises, they may be seperated, but in terms of the movies canon, they are both in the same universe. Predator 2 is your friend. ;)

Quote from: Predboy on Dec 20, 2007, 02:06:40 AM
Anyway, Im not surprised at all about this review, as I was expecting this for some time now. I am really surprised on how people here will just go out and tell anyone who doesn't like what they see and put their opinions down as 'haters', or 'bashing alien fanboys' even when someone puts their opinion up in a mature way, and actually puts something they didn't like about the predator too, and not just the aliens. But I guess I should smack myself for being so stupid, as its so obvious.

Hopeless fans who want the movie to be great don't want people bringing them down. This is an exact carbon-copy of what happened with AVP. Early reviews were bad, fans didn't believe it and labeled them haters. Now look how hated AVP is.

People, your naivety is blinding you!

Quote from: Plokoon111 on Dec 20, 2007, 02:09:03 AM
Yes but some people go over board. By making a joke out of it, or try to be sarcastic, like "This movie rocks! :roll eyes:" If they would just leave there opinion and not just FORCE there opinion by quoting someones opinion.

this is a not a pointless comment  ::)
just kidding what ur saying makes perfect sense ppl are trying to turn everthing into a shit fest with satire when that is one thing this movie does not need a very good point plokkon

Quote from: Dragon-Pred on Dec 20, 2007, 02:11:47 AM
that is one thing this movie does not need a very good point plokkon

What does this movie need?  (Besides a better script?)

Better acting, better script, and better production crew. ;)  Don't get me wrong the predalien and wolf look great! The chestbursters, well, uh.

Quote from: Plokoon111 on Dec 20, 2007, 02:20:55 AM
Better acting, better script, and better production crew. ;)  Don't get me wrong the predalien and wolf look great! The chestbursters, well, uh.

Acting dnt have to be that great as long as atmosphere is good i mean look at Pred 1

Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Dec 20, 2007, 02:16:15 AM

Quote from: Dragon-Pred on Dec 20, 2007, 02:11:47 AM
that is one thing this movie does not need a very good point plokkon

What does this movie need?  (Besides a better script?)

We need "versing" like the title suggests.   :D

I think it will do well enough like AVP1 and they'll make an AVP3. AVP3 in space will probably improve and do better than both AVP1 and AVP-R. This will probably end the avp franchise. Then a bit later Scott comes in with Alien 5. Thats how I see it.

What the Hell!? Vehtam ... Spaghetti .. epsecially you Vehtam .. better read twice and interpret right before you post such a crap Oo ... I never meant the review ... i talked to irratator .. he was the one, who said he's judging the whole movie only be other opinions and trailers. THAT is bullshit ... not the review ...  ::)

So drop down and turn the off the angry mode -.- ... my god!

greetz

Quote from: vehtam on Dec 19, 2007, 09:21:29 PM
all credit's go to Ja, i just did the translation. Sorry for some errors if they appear ;)



Here we go

3 years after Andersons 'masterpiece' release, Fox decided to give a chance to Brothers Strause to direct the sequel. Action begins in the same place, where AVP has ended. The Predalien is chestbursting from the body of Scar, hides onboard and waits for an opourtunity. Most of the scenes is from the Predators point of view (probably some clan leader), who decided to visit our planet.
It's been about 19 years, since i first saw ALIENS on the big screen. That unforgetable experience had enormous influence on me. I don't want to point every positive aspect of that movie, but all of you know for sure, that there isn't much motion pictures that are even comparable with it. 'Predator' for example was a proof for me, that Hollywood actually can create amazing and terryfying worlds, and the way it has been done was overhelming.
There were several attempts of adapting and resurrecting the inheritance of the 80's. AVP idea itself, born in Norwoods comic book, was more than inspiring. Clash of both species on the Planet Ryushi, where future world with colonists (alien domain), stylized on earth Texas (ranches and other more of a Predators domain) proved, that connecting this worlds is possible and works fine. All you need is right people with good ideas.
Dark Horse sustained that trend for a long time, but when Fox decided to try earn money on sucking dry successful licences, everything turned out not the way it should be. Let's begin with basics, which is:

The Script

AVPR, as well as it's 'great' predecessor, have issues with two assumptions on which the whole construction of the world portrayed in this movie is based on. The Setting is earth, in present times. It's very difficult to fit alien in this enviroment. And it's even harder, when the plot is mainly the massacre of small town population. Aliens taken out from their dark gothic enviroment became... just another monsters, which we already have tons of. With Predator the situation isn't better. Lack of amazonian or urban jungle takes away his hunter dignity.
Jim Davis, the producer of 'Predator' and AVP, decided to favorize his pupil in terms of setting, and forced Shane Salerno to write the scripts telling us story about the clash of the species... on Earth. The result is kinda sad I'm afraid. The small town doesn't fit as an arena for ultimate battle between two extra-terrestial beings at all. It isn't comparable with Ryushi even in one bit. Colourful small houses, pizza house, swimming pool. The set pieces planning looks to be accidental, and putting there alien and hunter shows lack of concept. To hide plain compromitation, separate acts of the script were primitively modified. We won't see alien during the day. In the first act they are placed in the sewers. Just when it's getting dark, aliens will get to the surface to take control over Gunnison. Here we have one of the major issues about this movie. Once again the creators weren't able to handle one very important thing - planning the action in an interesting way, instead we have chaos. As i wrote earlier, small US town setting isn't helping. The purpose of Predator actions just increase that impression and we are never able to get his motivation fully. Is it an alien hunt, predalien hunt, cleaning? We will never know for sure. When the major plot turn appears along with gory fighting, everything that was build in the first act should grow, but...
Till this time we are seeing the gallery of characters written in few minutes during the coffee break on a knee at it's best. Forget about any depth in them. "Rednecks" are jsut meat to be butchered. Only the chosen ones will be able to survive. Salerno/Strause made an assumption similiar to creators of Alien and Aliens. No one stands up from the crowd - we don't know, who's gonna survive. The problem is that in previous movies somebody actually cared about creating interesting characters and behaviours, which made the confrontations with aliens harder/easier/more interesting. It's what we're missing in AVPR.
Characters are two dimensional and we don't care about them for even a second. Rip-offs are there as well - tough mother (driving APC) and small girl (seeing monsters, which shouldn't exist). When we get to group being formed, we can safely assume their fate in terms of characters they are based on. And we aren't suprised at all.
Summing up, this is script on an Anderson level. Amateur, revised several times after first draft from original author.

The directing

It's Brothers Strause big screen debut. From making commercials they are thrown into full lentgh motion picture, about which most of us had high hopes of. They got a very poor script and had to turn out to be genius, like Cameron for example, to create a visual interpretation of Salernos crap.
Me, in opposition to the major audience, don't have any issues with Finchers Alien3. it's errors are only Gilers fault, which was sending next pages of the script via fax during the production. However the visual style of Alien3 makes it the most beautiful installment of the saga. How AVPR looks?
It Looks average. The Bros didn't work out any (at least recognizable) style. most of the movie action takes place during the night. Dark and poor weather conditions (including heavy rain) aren't building tension as they should be. Add to that very poorly presented aliens. And not only that, they were also poorly designed and built. Their overlook, prepared by 'the specialists' from ADI, aren't even mediocre. Their appearing on the screen is poor too - covered in dark and bad lightning (not climatic, as it should be). The Predator turns to be better, but it might be because of the hunting during the day and the darkness in his case could work as his camouflage. But it's hard to tell if that thing had any influence, because generally the visuals of this movie were on a level of a common popcorn flick.
Screwed up vision translates to low quality confrontations between predator and aliens (including predalien). Acid-blooded guys are hissing, appearing from nowhere (literally), and the predator is butchering them, the oversized bugs (vht: take a note, that it actually comes from Cameron ALIENS fan!). This again has nothing to do with building the tension. From the very beginning we know, that the final battle will be between the Predator and the Predalien. Till then we have a forced portrait of how tough and ruthless they are. Here's one of the biggest gripes of predator presence - don't get me wrong, hunter in AVPR is designed and presented much more better than that gang of goofies in AVP. The problem is that Brothers Strause clearly forced "going back to the roots" route, no matter the cost. The Predator is cruel, and we should be thankful, but if only there would be consequence to that. Wolf kills only one person and gets him skinned. All the following victims are getting killed by accident, or the violence is toned down, and again accidental. CGI blood definetely isn't helping. To be honest, the movie loses very much because of that. Gore looks like very incompetently mixed in - digital blood differs from the real one. Brothers Strause use current generation experience - lots of blood from a computer game. It isn't giving good impression. But they go further and count on the SHOCK effect. Scenes, like chestbursting little boy, raping a pregnant woman etc., are a clear message to the audience - "We are not Anderson!". Of course you're not guys, but it isn't the reason to do these things without thinking them over. Gore shots don't have such value, as they had in Alien for example (Kane and his 'son'). There the whole scene fit very fell and actually had influence on how we see the alien, the creature born from blood, demanding more and more of it. With Strause problem is that gore shots are medium disgusting, and even in few places looks like they were scared by them themselves. And we can't forget about small town residents. As for a movie about total doom bringed by extra-terrestial beings, it is sparing the whole destruction image a lot. We're still following only few people, just like they were the only one living in Gunnison. There's lack of bigger shots with aliens butchering people on the streets for example.

Generally

...AVPR's compromitation, as well as it was with the Anderson movie, begins in the second act. Maybe i don't know that, but i thought that National Guard don't resemble regular army forces. Why did platoons arrive to Gunnison, that looks like they've been taken out straight from Kabul one moment ago?
Stupidity in terms of respecting Alien and Predator canon is another issue. Hunter starts new profession and gets rid of the bodies, both alien and human, and the viewer don't have any idea why. He grabs his shoulder cannon, and thanks to that from distinguish hunter he is becoming bad cowboy with a gun. His confrontations with aliens look awkward. Punches, kicks and wrestling. Alien isn't better. While Adnerson screwed up the time of reproduction cycle, bros are trying to make us belive, that whole hive structure can be build in the matter of few hours.

The Workshop

Unfortunatley the unexperienced brothers did mistakes in filming action sequences too. Attempts to get to the chopper on the roof are nothing more, than shooting in the dark. Habit taken from the work on commercials and video clips brings chopped editing. Especially in terms of alien versus predator fights.

At the end
.. i'll tell you, that movie grand finale was dissapointing the most. Complete absence of inteligent end of subplots. Lack of justice hurt the monsters the most. Alien and predator became the main characters of the movie and their end is... VERY DISSAPOINTING.
As the whole movie. 

Great points, and great review there, vehtam.

Seems like it isn't worth wasting my money on AVPR anymore, sadly.  :'( But I hope AVP3 would turn out for the better.

And almost forgot about the pool sex scene, that part was totally worthless.

I do like the Wolf Predator though, it's concept is very nice and has a reminiscent of the First Predator.

Quote from: Clyde Wyman on Dec 20, 2007, 09:34:24 AM
Great points, and great review there, vehtam.

Seems like it isn't worth wasting my money on AVPR anymore, sadly.  :'( But I hope AVP3 would turn out for the better.

And almost forgot about the pool sex scene, that part was totally worthless.

::)

http://www.movieweb.com/movies/film/35/4035/review5656.php

So what ... now it is worth to spend money on that? Come on .. just watch this movie and then judge by self ...

greetz

Quote from: $cHm0cK on Dec 20, 2007, 09:39:12 AM

::)

http://www.movieweb.com/movies/film/35/4035/review5656.php

So what ... now it is worth to spend money on that? Come on .. just watch this movie and then judge by self ...

greetz

Another thing I'm afraid of is the action scenes or the battle scenes themselves. And worst thing is, nuking both Wolf Predator and Chet to death is simply a cheap and lousy attempt to end the movie.

Quote from: $cHm0cK on Dec 20, 2007, 09:39:12 AM

Quote from: Clyde Wyman on Dec 20, 2007, 09:34:24 AM
Great points, and great review there, vehtam.

Seems like it isn't worth wasting my money on AVPR anymore, sadly.  :'( But I hope AVP3 would turn out for the better.

And almost forgot about the pool sex scene, that part was totally worthless.

::)

http://www.movieweb.com/movies/film/35/4035/review5656.php

So what ... now it is worth to spend money on that? Come on .. just watch this movie and then judge by self ...

greetz

Dont look at the score, read the review. It still sounds second rate.

Nah it sounds good for me.

greetz

The infamous scene in which the Predator either intentionally or unintentionally destroy it's own ship after missing it's shots on Chet actually kept me amused and disgusted at the same time.

Quote from: $cHm0cK on Dec 20, 2007, 10:00:27 AM
Nah it sounds good for me.

greetz

Sure you're reading it? Here, I'll list some quotes for you:

1) "After the break-neck pace of the opening 5 minutes, the film slows down a bit for the fodder, er, human introduction"

2) "fill in the blanks with some slightly sketched humans, throw a cool new monster in, ice the cake with some over-the-top violence"

Sounds like a master piece.

Yes .. i read it!

QuoteA much better film than AVP

Sounds good .. enough for me!

QuoteI'm glad we're getting a "give the people what they want film"

I'm glad too ...

And the beginning rocks imo! But ... well ... if good or not ... i dont really care about some review ... sure its nice to see how other people think about it ... but i'm making my own decision by seeing it! AvP 1 was not a bad movie from a neutral view. From a view of big fan .. yeah .. it was disappointing ... i have the good feelin this one will be both! Good and mostly fine to me as a fan. And then .. AvP3 will we better and the perfect one because of the space setting, more action .. (more Preds) ...  hopefully!

greetz

Quote from: Bronx19 on Dec 20, 2007, 09:43:35 AM

Quote from: $cHm0cK on Dec 20, 2007, 09:39:12 AM

Quote from: Clyde Wyman on Dec 20, 2007, 09:34:24 AM
Great points, and great review there, vehtam.

Seems like it isn't worth wasting my money on AVPR anymore, sadly.  :'( But I hope AVP3 would turn out for the better.

And almost forgot about the pool sex scene, that part was totally worthless.

::)

http://www.movieweb.com/movies/film/35/4035/review5656.php

So what ... now it is worth to spend money on that? Come on .. just watch this movie and then judge by self ...

greetz

Dont look at the score, read the review. It still sounds second rate.

How exactly does "Alot of fun" or anything else he said for that matter equate to the movie being second rate? Maybe it's just me, but what I got out of that review was that the guy thuroughly enjoyed the film.

Quote from: $cHm0cK on Dec 20, 2007, 10:45:19 AM
Yes .. i read it!

QuoteA much better film than AVP

Sounds good .. enough for me!

QuoteI'm glad we're getting a "give the people what they want film"

I'm glad too ...

And the beginning rocks imo! But ... well ... if good or not ... i dont really care about some review ... sure its nice to see how other people think about it ... but i'm making my own decision by seeing it! AvP 1 was not a bad movie from a neutral view. From a view of big fan .. yeah .. it was disappointing ... i have the good feelin this one will be both! Good and mostly fine to me as a fan. And then .. AvP3 will we better and the perfect one because of the space setting, more action .. (more Preds) ...  hopefully!

greetz

Because it's in space it will be perfect? Don't get your hopes up.

Quote from: StealthHunter on Dec 20, 2007, 10:52:31 AM
How exactly does "Alot of fun" or anything else he said for that matter equate to the movie being second rate? Maybe it's just me, but what I got out of that review was that the guy thuroughly enjoyed the film.

Yeah .. agree!

Quote from: Craig on Dec 20, 2007, 10:53:46 AM
Because it's in space it will be perfect? Don't get your hopes up.

No ... you didnt understand it! Of course i will make my final judge when i see the movie but from the clips/trailers etc. It looks fine! A good Movie for the big fans and for the "normal" guys. So .. imo it really seems the Strause have much potential ... and when you look what they made with the earth setting ... just wow! So imagine what they could do with the setting, they want ..

greetz

Well, the three NEGATIVE reviews we have so far are from FANS, ergo people who care for the creatures and their mythology...

All THREE had CONVERGENCE of criticism, which demonstrate that something is definitely wrong with the movie...!

They all had technical, script, tone, narrative structure issues, which are quite tangible and easy to distinguish and identify...

Vehtam's friend (very, very well done review...a bit too on the negative side, but give the hype it had I can understand his frustration..as well as Gacu and the RT poster...) nailed it as far as my concerns about the movie are: script, character development, setting... how they all intermingle and how cohesive the product is...

He was very constructive and clearly knows what he is talking about...

So, for 3 of the lucky fans that watched a pre-screening of the movie, it was disappointing, rushed and amateurishly done...

Nothing we couldn't tell from the footage and other stuff that has been 'flooding' us for the past half a year or so...

Also, finding small comfort in it possibly being slightly better than AVP only because there are more fights and blood, is proof that the movie has failed... because a better-looking PoS is STILL AND REGARDLESS a PoS... :( >:(

Well i don't want to spoil the movie until January 31, but i was very curious. I read the criticisms and i was very dissapointing. I was really a positive guy, and i had big hope for this movie. Then i saw the store showdown clip and i heard the AvPR score. The score was not bad, but nowhere as good like the originals. The score is better than AvP's soundtrack and thats it. Where is the PRedator's drum anyway? The store showdown clip. The acting was terrible. REally bad and in the clip was nothing extra. The PRed moved like the original but thats it. It wasn't bad but something is missing from it. ??? What the f**k is this teen melodrama? This is not Friday 13 for god sakes... :-\ :-[ :'( :'(

I'll see the movie even if i receives tons of negatine reviews. I don't care about critics and wannabees that much anyway. They've thrashed movies like Armageddon, Independence Day, Godzilla but I still love 'em. Almost everybody hates Predator 2, for me it's almost as good as the original (needs more running time, though). So I may have a good chance of enjoying this movie, don't I?

Quote from: Predator-S on Dec 20, 2007, 12:55:19 PM
I'll see the movie even if i receives tons of negatine reviews. I don't care about critics and wannabees that much anyway.

Wow, you're really a strong-willed independent thinking personality, aren't you?

Quote from: Predator-S on Dec 20, 2007, 12:55:19 PMThey've thrashed movies like Armageddon, Independence Day, Godzilla but I still love 'em.

That actually explains a LOT.

Nobody's forcing you to stay out of the theatre, geez, what's with all this "you guys forcing opinions in our throats" paranoia coming from the "positive" crowd?

If you're so confident of the film being good, why do you keep posting reasurring yourselves and others that you don't care what "haters" say and you will see it anyway? The movie has bad reviews, stop crying, get over it and go enjoy the goddamn flick you waited for so long.

Now it seems our turn has come to bitch about your bitching.

And oh yeah, the scene that I had been anticipating is the Rooftop Scene, must be disappointing I guess since many had said that Chet and the Wolf Predator were just playing fist-fights with each other without any weapons and after that, both of these creatures got nuked instead.

......  ???

what do you want them to do if they have no weapons to fight with?  ???

Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Dec 20, 2007, 02:04:39 PM
what do you want them to do if they have no weapons to fight with?  ???

I mean, Chet has claws and tail right? And the Wolf Predator has wristblades and a combistick right? I don't see any sense in the battle at all, if both of the sides don't use what they have to fight.

Quote from: Clyde Wyman on Dec 20, 2007, 02:11:26 PM

Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Dec 20, 2007, 02:04:39 PM
what do you want them to do if they have no weapons to fight with?  ???

I mean, Chet has claws and tail right? And the Wolf Predator has wristblades and a combistick right? I don't see any sense in the battle at all, if both of the sides don't use what they have to fight.

Who said they don't?

QUESTION: Why does the Predator fight the predalien with his bare hands if he has his wristblades? 

ANSWER:  Probably as a homage to the original predator movie, just with no thought put behind it.

QUESTION:  Why does the predalien punch/slap and grapple with the Predator, when he could claw, bite and stab him?

ANSWER:  Plot device.

QUESTION:  Why do both creatures wait until the final moments of the fight to actually use their respective weapons in a deadly fasion?

ANSWER:  Deus Ex Machina.

wristblades could be broken, also you can use them by punching...

Second, the Predalien uses his tail and trys to headbitem and probably claws

Quotewristblades could be broken, also you can use them by punching...

If they're broken and then suddenly working at the last minute it makes the end of their fight an even bigger Deus Ex Machina.

Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Dec 20, 2007, 02:25:53 PM

Quotewristblades could be broken, also you can use them by punching...

If they're broken and then suddenly working at the last minute it makes the end of their fight an even bigger Deus Ex Machina.

like i said they could be used for pucnhing, he could have waited to use them for the killing blow which it looks like he did

WTF are u talking guys ... WOlf IS using wristblades and Spear ... we dont know what will happen .. are they broken or not ... God .. this is making me sick everyday ... just wait and go see the damn movie!

greetz

Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Dec 20, 2007, 02:20:07 PM
QUESTION: Why does the Predator fight the predalien with his bare hands if he has his wristblades? 

ANSWER:  Probably as a homage to the original predator movie, just with no thought put behind it.

QUESTION:  Why does the predalien punch/slap and grapple with the Predator, when he could claw, bite and stab him?

ANSWER:  Plot device.

QUESTION:  Why do both creatures wait until the final moments of the fight to actually use their respective weapons in a deadly fasion?

ANSWER:  Deus Ex Machina.

you can use this same theory on every movie every made......i dont get your point

Quote from: Irritator on Dec 20, 2007, 01:54:06 PM

Quote from: Predator-S on Dec 20, 2007, 12:55:19 PM
I'll see the movie even if i receives tons of negatine reviews. I don't care about critics and wannabees that much anyway.

Wow, you're really a strong-willed independent thinking personality, aren't you?

Quote from: Predator-S on Dec 20, 2007, 12:55:19 PMThey've thrashed movies like Armageddon, Independence Day, Godzilla but I still love 'em.

That actually explains a LOT.

Nobody's forcing you to stay out of the theatre, geez, what's with all this "you guys forcing opinions in our throats" paranoia coming from the "positive" crowd?

If you're so confident of the film being good, why do you keep posting reasurring yourselves and others that you don't care what "haters" say and you will see it anyway? The movie has bad reviews, stop crying, get over it and go enjoy the goddamn flick you waited for so long.

Now it seems our turn has come to bitch about your bitching.

Yeah, I have my own opinon. What's wrong with that?

For me they are good movies I don't see why you have a problem with that.

I never said anything about someone 'forcing opinion down my throat'.

I wasn't bitching anywhere, I said will see the goddamn movie regardless if it's good or bad.

And I never tried reassuring myself or someone else about the quality of the movie.

Case closed.

Quoteyou can use this same theory on every movie every made......i dont get your point

It's all about immersion and suspension of disbelief.  There are plenty of holes in Predator for example, but it at least felt like McTiernan was making an effort to think his creative decisions through to a conclusion that follows the movie's internal logic.  Predator 2 on the other hand doesn't make the same effort which makes it much more difficult to get immersed in the story and atmosphere.

Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Dec 20, 2007, 03:17:10 PM

Quoteyou can use this same theory on every movie every made......i dont get your point

It's all about immersion and suspension of disbelief.  There are plenty of holes in Predator for example, but it at least felt like McTiernan was making an effort to think his creative decisions through to a conclusion that follows the movie's internal logic.  Predator 2 on the other hand doesn't make the same effort which makes it much more difficult to get immersed in the story and atmosphere.

What holes are there in Predator may i ask? The story is what it should be.

There are holes in Alien.

QuoteWhat holes are there in Predator may i ask? The story is what it should be.

Well the biggest hole of all is how a creature which sees in infrared can be so technologically advanced.  It was basically done because it "looked cool" but you're so swept up by it that you don't really think about it.  Blaine using a minigun is frankly ridiculous, the rotation was slowed down to something like 1/3 of a real minigun and it still burned through more ammo than any man could possibly carry.  The scene where Mac unloads into the jungle would have used thousands and thousands of rounds and Blaine's backpack realistically only had enough ammo for a few seconds. :D  Arnold fasioning a bow and arrow out of sticks and vines that is capable of shooting through a tree trunk = LOL.  I'm also no expert but I'm pretty sure an M40 grenade doesn't explode just by throwing it at someone.

However at the end of the day these kinds of things don't really matter because you're so drawn into the movie that you're willing to accept them.  What separates Predator from other action movies besides the awesome creature design, is the tone and atmosphere, as I said in another thread I still get chills down my spine when I watch it.

QuoteThere are holes in Alien.

No wai?!  Of course there are holes in all 4 Alien movies. 

Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Dec 20, 2007, 03:17:10 PM

Quoteyou can use this same theory on every movie every made......i dont get your point

It's all about immersion and suspension of disbelief.  There are plenty of holes in Predator for example, but it at least felt like McTiernan was making an effort to think his creative decisions through to a conclusion that follows the movie's internal logic.  Predator 2 on the other hand doesn't make the same effort which makes it much more difficult to get immersed in the story and atmosphere.

but you were talking about one fight scene , not an entire movie.

Judging from other clips and from what people claim in reviews, it won't be the only example.  Even if it was the only example, it would really suck to have a good movie ruined when the climax destroys your suspension of disbelief.

Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Dec 20, 2007, 03:44:07 PM

QuoteWhat holes are there in Predator may i ask? The story is what it should be.

Well the biggest hole of all is how a creature which sees in infrared can be so technologically advanced.  It was basically done because it "looked cool" but you're so swept up by it that you don't really think about it.  Blaine using a minigun is frankly ridiculous, the rotation was slowed down to something like 1/3 of a real minigun and it still burned through more ammo than any man could possibly carry.  The scene where Mac unloads into the jungle would have used thousands and thousands of rounds and Blaine's backpack realistically only had enough ammo for a few seconds. :D  Arnold fasioning a bow and arrow out of sticks and vines that is capable of shooting through a tree trunk = LOL.  I'm also no expert but I'm pretty sure an M40 grenade doesn't explode just by throwing it at someone.

No wai?!  Of course there are holes in all 4 Alien movies. 

But those aren't plot holes, just mistakes or exaggerations.

As for alien, how did the facehugger melt Kane's scaffander (not sure of the spelling)? It doesn't spit acid.

How did the chesburster move around the entire ship? Wasn't that thing hermatized?

I didn't say they were plot holes, simply holes.

QuoteAs for alien, how did the facehugger melt Kane's scaffander (not sure of the spelling)? It doesn't spit acid

If it melted through his visor, then it must have secreted acid, right?

I've already said all the movies have holes in them, I have no problem aknowledging this.  The fact that you're getting so defensive over me using the Predator movies as an example and trying to list holes in the Alien movies as a counter argument just shows how much you're missing the point.

Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Dec 20, 2007, 03:44:07 PM

QuoteWhat holes are there in Predator may i ask? The story is what it should be.

Well the biggest hole of all is how a creature which sees in infrared can be so technologically advanced.  It was basically done because it "looked cool" but you're so swept up by it that you don't really think about it.  Blaine using a minigun is frankly ridiculous, the rotation was slowed down to something like 1/3 of a real minigun and it still burned through more ammo than any man could possibly carry.  The scene where Mac unloads into the jungle would have used thousands and thousands of rounds and Blaine's backpack realistically only had enough ammo for a few seconds. :D  Arnold fasioning a bow and arrow out of sticks and vines that is capable of shooting through a tree trunk = LOL.  I'm also no expert but I'm pretty sure an M40 grenade doesn't explode just by throwing it at someone.

However at the end of the day these kinds of things don't really matter because you're so drawn into the movie that you're willing to accept them.  What separates Predator from other action movies besides the awesome creature design, is the tone and atmosphere, as I said in another thread I still get chills down my spine when I watch it.

QuoteThere are holes in Alien.

No wai?!  Of course there are holes in all 4 Alien movies. 

It seems you don't understand the movie at all :D, all the things you mentioned are permitted in this genre wich is a comic book styled sci fi action horror movie. Not one of the things you mentioned are holes. Hell the whole team looks like they walked out of a superhero cartoon or comic. Not to mention the Predator himself, an alien on steroids with laser weapons, green blood and whatnot. When the two adversaries finally meet face to face they begin a boxing match in a swampie ring. The creature finally defeated by Conan caveman Dutch, sets of a nuclear explosion but the hero outruns it. That is what i like so much about predator it is brutally honest. It is a masterfully crafted excellent b-movie, that's it. Alien pretends to be something more but hey, it's actually not.

Again, the fact that you are trying to defend the Predator movie by attacking the Alien movie speaks volumes.  You can sit here and explain to my why Predator is pure cinematic gold and why Alien is really arthouse bullshit, I don't care.  I've already made it very clear I like both movie franchies and your attempt to turn this into a "PREDATOR IS BETTERER THAN ALIEN!!1" says it all as far as I'm concerned.   All you're doing is living up the negative Predator fanboy stereotype.

QuoteAgain, the fact that you are trying to defend the Predator movie by attacking the Alien movie speaks volumes.

Not really, i wasn't really talking about Alien, i just illustrated the difference.

QuoteYou can sit here and explain to my why Predator is pure cinematic gold and why Alien is really arthouse bullshit, I don't care. 

Alien is really far from arthouse :D, it comfortably sits next to other good b-movies in it's genre. The alien xenomorph creature (it's design) is much more sophisticated than the movie it's in.

QuoteI've already made it very clear I like both movie franchies and your attempt to turn this into a "PREDATOR IS BETTERER THAN ALIEN!!1" says it all as far as I'm concerned.

I didn't say Predator is the better film, although i personally think it is. I just said Predator is more honest.
All that said i do think Alien is good just a bit overrated.

QuoteAll you're doing is living up the negative Predator fanboy stereotype.

::)                                                               

if everyone went off of a review from a 50 yr old or someone who doesnt know that this movie isnt suppose to change lives then stop wasting posting space about how bad this movie is  when u havent even seen it, everything in this review is a nit pick plain and simple, people just need to think about how many movies they have seen even after they read a crappy review , and still loved the movie and were wondering what movie the reviewer saw

As my dad always says, "The only thing that really matters in a Sci-fi movie is it's ability to suspend disbelief in the viewers." It has to be constructed to where it is actually in some sense believable or tricks you into believing it is possible. You don't sit there thinking I'm watching a sci-fi or horror movie.  You need to be totally immersed in the story and invested in the outcome of the plot and the fate of the characters. If it can't do that then it isn't a good movie in my book.

Denial much?

Dispite the fact that English isn't even his native language, this is still the best written review I have seen so far.  I can't see how it's all nitpicking considering that it only goes into moderate depth when describing scenes etc.  It's amazing and also frightening how much blind faith people are willing to put into a movie like this.

It seems no matter how bad things look, there's always someone who will respond along the lines of "DON'T JUDGE THE FILM UNTIL YOU'VE SEEN IT!".  Well guess what?  These people HAVE seen it and their judgement was that it isn't very good.  At some point you are going to have to accept that this film might not be the perfect movie you thought it was going to be.  If you see it and you don't like it, what are you going to say then?  "DON'T JUDGE THE FILM UNTIL YOU'VE SEEN THE DIRECTORS CUT!"?

i go into a movie open minded, so what if something didnt quite look right or work right, the movie is suppose to an escape from reality, i could care less if something isnt in here and was in another alien or pred movie, either way its gonna be better than the first one  and thats all that really matters

Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Dec 20, 2007, 05:36:35 PM
It seems no matter how bad things look, there's always someone who will respond along the lines of "DON'T JUDGE THE FILM UNTIL YOU'VE SEEN IT!".  Well guess what?  These people HAVE seen it and their judgement was that it isn't very good.  At some point you are going to have to accept that this film might not be the perfect movie you thought it was going to be.

What a mess ... i know guys who completely dislike ALIEN ... they say its boring and BS. And i say its cool! So what?  ::)

The same as for A:R .. i say its the complete BS! Others say its a cool movie ... no it is NOT .. imo! You see ... its just nonsense ...

greetz

I like both Alien and Predator. They both have there ups and downs. They have similarities too aswell. The suspense and horror of alien was very scary, and the heart pounding action of Predator was excellent aswell, even though at first they dont fight the predator. They are both great films in my book, and I hope AVPR is good aswell.

Quote from: mightydreadlock on Dec 20, 2007, 04:42:38 PM


Alien is really far from arthouse :D, it comfortably sits next to other good b-movies in it's genre. The alien xenomorph creature (it's design) is much more sophisticated than the movie it's in.
                                                             

Alien is a B-movie shot as an A-movie. How is Alien not sophisticated? It does everything perfectly, it sets up mood and tension like no other film like it.

It's funny, a lot of the special effects are really basic.  They literally had people shaking the nostromo chairs to simulate turbulence and stuff like that, however it is very clever in that they manage to make those effects believable.

Quote from: Yellow Alien on Dec 20, 2007, 07:47:37 PMAlien is a B-movie shot as an A-movie. How is Alien not sophisticated? It does everything perfectly, it sets up mood and tension like no other film like it.

Damn straight. It's a shame it looks like we'll never get a film that good ever again.

And I had to explain to my mom what part of Aliens your sig is from, but that's unrelated. :D

Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Dec 20, 2007, 07:57:00 PM
And I had to explain to my mom what part of Aliens your sig is from, but that's unrelated. :D

He, only a die-hard fan would even realize what my sig if referencing. ;D

"I guess she don't like the cornbread, either."

Something to do with the Predators being portryed as cornbread?

In the mess hall scene in Aliens, one of the marines asks, 'Man, what is this crap?', to which another replies, 'Cornbread, I think.'

I don't care how you guys try to cover is up it's FU CKING OBVIOUS that people who are bashing AvP-R care a lot more about the Alien franchise that the Predator franchise...not all Alien fans are bashing AvP-R...but almost everyone who is is an alien fan

When I was reading the review it sounded to me like the writer was mainly complaining about what was wrong with the aliens...only throwing in a few gripes about the Predator here and there to sound as if he cared about both franchises

In the end it's another BOOHOO THE ALIENS SUCK REVIEW

What have Predator fans got to complain about?

The Predator can curb stomp Aliens and hold two at bay at arm's reach with ease. He gets a slew of 'cool' kills and the only thing that could possibly seen as bad would be his face, which most Predator fans love anyway.

Add to that your typical Pred fan isn't looking for a good movie, just action.

Quote from: SiL on Dec 20, 2007, 08:23:41 PM
Add to that your typical Pred fan isn't looking for a good movie, just action.

:D

greetz

Quote from: SiL on Dec 20, 2007, 08:23:41 PM
What have Predator fans got to complain about?

The Predator can curb stomp Aliens and hold two at bay at arm's reach with ease. He gets a slew of 'cool' kills and the only thing that could possibly seen as bad would be his face, which most Predator fans love anyway.

Add to that your typical Pred fan isn't looking for a good movie, just action.

I don't like it when reviewers try to sound fair and balanced when they pretty much care for only one of the creatures

Quote from: SiL on Dec 20, 2007, 08:23:41 PM
What have Predator fans got to complain about?

The Predator can curb stomp Aliens and hold two at bay at arm's reach with ease. He gets a slew of 'cool' kills and the only thing that could possibly seen as bad would be his face, which most Predator fans love anyway.

Add to that your typical Pred fan isn't looking for a good movie, just action.

QFT   :)

ALIEN FANZ SMARTZORZ PREDATOR FANZ DUMBZORZ YAAAY!!!11one

Quote from: happypred on Dec 20, 2007, 08:27:41 PM
I don't like it when reviewers try to sound fair and balanced when they pretty much care for only one of the creatures

Or maybe he doesn't make much of a mention of the Predator because there's nothing to complain about for him. He looks good, he acts good, he kicks ass.

That notion would require logic to understand SiL...

Quote from: SiL on Dec 20, 2007, 08:30:09 PM
Or maybe he doesn't make much of a mention of the Predator because there's nothing to complain about for him. He looks good, he acts good, he kicks ass.

then his review could've been at least half-positive instead of being wholly negative

I'll admit the general disdain alien fans have for the predator franchise contributes to my opinions

I'll tell you why he didn't mention so much about the Predator (but in my opinion he says just about enough).

Originally my review was supposed to be from a Predator fan of view and JA's was supposed to be the opposite.

Combine them together and voila ^^.

QuoteAlien is a B-movie shot as an A-movie.

True

QuoteHow is Alien not sophisticated?

It is but the design of the xenomorph creature is pure art, i don't think the movie in a whole is on that level.

QuoteIt does everything perfectly, it sets up mood and tension like no other film like it.

Pretty good yes, all i was actually saying is that Alien is by no means any higher form of art compared to predator. They have a very different tone and work on completely different level.

Quotequote by SIL: What have Predator fans got to complain about?

Allot, a very bad film for one thing. Plus: a homeworld that looks like Star wars, stripping the predator from it's tribalism, bad ship design etc...etc

QuoteAdd to that your typical Pred fan isn't looking for a good movie, just action.

Maybe the 12 year old videogame geeks, not older fans of the original movie.

That your opinion, but me personally, Predator is not even close to Alien. It's a fun testosterone-filled action movie, that's it.

Quote from: Yellow Alien on Dec 21, 2007, 12:30:39 AM
That your opinion, but me personally, Predator is not even close to Alien. It's a fun testosterone-filled action movie, that's it.

Alien is a horror movie, you can't really comapre the two.
Alien is the best in its class (Sci-fi horror)
And Predator is the best in it's own (Sci-Fi Action)

Aliens is sci-fi action, and it beats Predator so bad, both in action and character development.

Quote from: Yellow Alien on Dec 21, 2007, 12:33:56 AM
Aliens is sci-fi action, and it beats Predator so bad, both in action and character development.

Aliens is more of action/horror and less of an eighties action movie...Predator is probably the best eighties action movie with a sci-fi twist

Quote from: Yellow Alien on Dec 21, 2007, 12:33:56 AM
Aliens is sci-fi action, and it beats Predator so bad, both in action and character development.

Not in a long shot, not to mention that there isn't any character development in either. I always found the marines in Aliens to be cheesy as hell. Typical James (Titanic :D) Cameron cheese.

Quote from: Yellow Alien on Dec 21, 2007, 12:30:39 AM
That your opinion, but me personally, Predator is not even close to Alien. It's a fun testosterone-filled action movie, that's it.

Yeah, there is really so much more in Alien, that's what i call pretentious. I like Weaver and the creature that's it.

I meant Ripley had character development. You are right, the marines are typical. But the soldiers in Predator were exactly the same, just better organized.

Quote from: Yellow Alien on Dec 21, 2007, 12:46:28 AM
I meant Ripley had character development. You are right, the marines are typical. But the soldiers in Predator were exactly the same, just better organized.

The soldiers in Predator were over the top, like in a comic book. That made them a really enjoyable bunch of characters. Also they work perfectly together. I can't say that about the marines in Aliens. I'm not really a Cameron fan, can't get into his characters, the Abyss has the same problem in my opinion.

Not saying anything negative about Ripley, i really like that character, Weaver does a great job. She is a good actress.   

I've always said Dutch's squad is better than the marines. They worked better as a team. The marines disobeyed direct orders.

Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Dec 20, 2007, 02:13:42 PM

Who said they don't?

Okay, maybe I was wrong, so they are not fist-fighting. But some might say that they are bitch slapping each other!