Why did they first went out to investigate the colony and not go for the derelict ship instead?
If the company wanted the eggs so bad they could send in two teams one for the colony and one for grabbing "the thousands of eggs the crewmember Kane saw" i mean Ripley can save Newt and stuff and the real bastards can have there war machine without interference of any stuck up curly female.
Because in Alien 3 they specially come for Ripley they send a Sulaco looking craft just for that one creature,
so in between Aliens and Alien3 they had to find out what this creature can do and stuff or they had to know from the start. (Alien) or before that ;)
So my guess would be best to send a team of snatchers and not just one company guy like Burke with a soft belly.
Besides that the derelict ship would have had lots more technology and the jockey inside with the eggs.
Company didn't want the Aliens in Aliens, Burke did.
Also, Burke didn't even know if the eggs existed. If he made a big deal over it, all the health departments and alien safety regulators would have stepped in and nobody would have gotten any exclusive rights over the species and the company would have to wait in line just like everyone else for a chance to harness these spectacular creatures.
Which company was Burke working for?
Weyland-Yutani.
Ridley has said that the Company didn't know about that explicit alien [with a capital 'A'] when they re-routed the Nostromo, just that it may be something juicy.
We can infer that after the Nostromo goes AWOL, they didn't bother messing around with it, for some reason or another [too shady/boardmembers die, whatever, I dunno]. Then Burke catches Ripley's story, sends the colonists to the co-ordinates, then oops lol, then he decides to tag along and make some monies for himself, and a promotion. After Aliens, the Company seem to get clued into what they're dealing with, and chase after it ala Alien 3.
Phew. Conjecture, of course.
According to the novelization, the company knew there was a hostile organism after they translated the message and sent the Nostromo crew along to pick an Alien up, however, it was hoped that all the crew members would live to pick up their pensions after the trip.
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 02, 2011, 02:29:54 AM
According to the novelization, the company knew there was a hostile organism after they translated the message and sent the Nostromo crew along to pick an Alien up, however, it was hoped that all the crew members would live to pick up their pensions after the trip.
Have to go with Ridley > Alan Dean Foster. Not saying the Company didn't know of an organism, but a specifically hostile, body-incubating war-organism? Can't buy it, considering the lapse in action between Alien and Aliens.
I can buy it, only for the fact that the Nostromo's translator deciphered some of the message.
Now, we can assume that the "Company" had far more sophisticated equipment to decipher the message and more time to do it in.
So, I'm of the opinion that the company knew EXACTLY what they were sending the Nostromo after.
That's why they put Ash on board, to ensure he would bring it back and would be the one thing a Facehugger wouldn't attack.
I can't agree that they knew EXACTLY what they were after, simply based on the inaction between Alien and Aliens, and Ridley's own words.
The inaction between the first and second movie means nothing.
They were written and directed by two different people.
If you take the first movie all on its own (which is relevent in this situation), then it seems the company knew exactly what they were after.
If the Company knew of
the Alien, then they wouldn't have sent a tug-boat.
Alien³ shows this. The end.
QuoteIf you take the first movie all on its own (which is relevent in this situation), then it seems the company knew exactly what they were after.
Unless you ask any of the people actually involved in it, who all seemed to agree that no-one knew precisely what was there.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 02, 2011, 02:58:48 AM
If the Company knew of the Alien, then they wouldn't have sent a tug-boat. Alien³ shows this. The end.
Again, you're taking into account a movie (and plot points) that didn't exist when the first was made.
The company sent what would draw the least attention, or what was going to be closest to the planet on its return trip, or the one they could replace a crewmember with an android.
The end.
Ridley said, and I believe this was pre-Aliens, but someone may correct me if wrong:
'I think any corporation that sends probes into unknown territory is going to think of the possibility of finding something new. I'm sure that the crew members on all its ships would have been briefed to bring back anything of interest. It would be part of one's job to bring it back. An alien, of course, would be of top priority. This particular corporation didn't have a preconceived notion that an alien would be found on this mission, much less the particular alien that is brought onto the ship. The idea of bringing it back alive would not have been on the minds of the corporate executives when they first received the alien transmission. They just had high expectations when they ordered the Nostromo to investigate - it was purely out of curiousity.'
Quote from: Sabres21768 on Apr 02, 2011, 03:03:11 AM
They company sent what would draw the least attention, or what was going to be closest to the planet on its return trip, or the one they could replace a crewmember with an android.
Or they could avoid all problems, scramble a ship on the down-low with a specially-fitted crew that knows what they're dealing with, and not risk a group of space-truckers getting scared and scuttling billions of dollars worth of resources.
Everyone involved with the plot of the original agreed that the Company only knew that
something was there and that
maybe they could use it. The Special Order is so vague it could just as easily refer to the Space Jockey as to the Alien -- Ash is there as insurance regardless. Nothing in the movie says they knew about
the Alien.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 02, 2011, 03:09:17 AM
Quote from: Sabres21768 on Apr 02, 2011, 03:03:11 AM
They company sent what would draw the least attention, or what was going to be closest to the planet on its return trip, or the one they could replace a crewmember with an android.
Or they could avoid all problems, scramble a ship on the down-low with a specially-fitted crew that knows what they're dealing with, and not risk a group of space-truckers getting scared and scuttling billions of dollars worth of resources.
Everyone involved with the plot of the original agreed that the Company only knew that something was there and that maybe they could use it. The Special Order is so vague it could just as easily refer to the Space Jockey as to the Alien -- Ash is there as insurance regardless. Nothing in the movie says they knew about the Alien.
And nothing says they didn't know.
It's all conjecture and doesn't really sway my opinion either way.
Quote from: Sabres21768 on Apr 02, 2011, 03:10:24 AM
And nothing says they didn't know.
Except for the director of the film.
QuoteIt's all conjecture and doesn't really sway my opinion either way.
Well, I don't want it to get out of hand or heated in any way.
Quote from: Sabres21768 on Apr 02, 2011, 03:10:24 AM
And nothing says they didn't know.
Except the filmmakers and how not a damn thing the Company does speaks of them knowing about an eight-foot-tall acid-bleeding space-monster.
They couldn't have known about the Alien; look at how befuggled and keen Ash is when presented with it. Obviously, they didn't know of an incubating, acid-bleeding alien. And again, Ridley's quote, supplied on page 1...
For what it's worth according to Aliens Original Sin, the space jockeys traded the information about the derelict ship to to Loki (a human agency responsible for handling highly unethical transactions between humans and the jockeys), what they got in return was a planet with very valuable resources and a human population that could be turned into slaves. The derelict on LV-426 was piloted by a jockey that was infected by its own kind, a tactic they aren't very fond of in the future. Though, Ash in the novelization called the Jockeys a noble race for sending that distress signal even though that jockey in the derelict knew he would die though maybe Ash was never informed of Loki and the rest.
Hey, who let the EU in the door?
Darn rabble-rousers, dat EU...
Quote from: SiL on Apr 02, 2011, 03:09:17 AM
Quote from: Sabres21768 on Apr 02, 2011, 03:03:11 AM
They company sent what would draw the least attention, or what was going to be closest to the planet on its return trip, or the one they could replace a crewmember with an android.
Or they could avoid all problems, scramble a ship on the down-low with a specially-fitted crew that knows what they're dealing with, and not risk a group of space-truckers getting scared and scuttling billions of dollars worth of resources.
Everyone involved with the plot of the original agreed that the Company only knew that something was there and that maybe they could use it. The Special Order is so vague it could just as easily refer to the Space Jockey as to the Alien -- Ash is there as insurance regardless. Nothing in the movie says they knew about the Alien.
Thank you.
In Alien,the crew gets woken up halfway the trip back home they dont know were they are and why they are so far off course.
When mother calls Dallas you see Ash pushing him with "mother wants to talk to you"
etc etc etc
They move on to the derelict Ripley finds out of the beacon's real signal purpose and Ash waves it off in a very dissrespectfull way to the lives of the crew.
So the crew is brought there on purpose knowing they cant defend themselves and probably will serve as carriers for the Xeno's only so later on the Nostromo could be boarded by the people who want the Xeno's.
Offcourse not knowing Ripley has the same fighting spirit as the Xeno's ;)
That makes me come to mind that Cameron fully ignored the mysterie effect and the part that its all about the origin and were the derelict ship came from but then again maybe Ridley didnt allow it to mess around with his and Gyger's mystery and kill it.
Or the trip the marines took with Ripley was only for the climate station and the colony's,
so therefore they could make a movie in between that some people were going for the jockey and the ship before ripley was found etc.
But a prequel is also good but i hate the mystery and the possibility Scott will not make another movie of Alien/Prometheus,and only a handfull people can pull of such a mystery.
The Company did not know about the Alien before Nostromo, just like SiL said (and explained to you all in a very clear way by using the magic of sheer logic).
I believe they did know and Ash's behaviour says it all in a very clear way that what they will encounter wont be any friendly.
If Ripley or the ships computer mother finds out that the message is a warning then they find out very late,
dont you think.
I mean whats more worth to the company 20.000 tons of minerals to get back to Earth or putting the lives and the cargo in jeopardy for a simple alien warning signal.
Therefore they had to know it.
They really didn't.
Any ship running into an alien transmission has to respond. This is established in the movie. Company knows of a transmission, sends Ash along with the crew to ensure the return of something. What is never stated; Special Order 937 simply says to return a specimen of whatever it is they find.
People are trying to make a point of Ripley deciphering part of the message; all she gets is that it looks like a warning. Looks like a warning. The Company may well have figured this much out, too, but just because they knew it was a warning doesn't mean they know what it was warning about. Maybe there was a radiation leak. Maybe there was a nasty alien flu that could easily be avoided using their spacesuits.
The actions of the Company as shown in the film speak of people knowing shit's out there, not whose shit specifically.
Quote from: Infected on Apr 03, 2011, 11:03:50 AM
I mean whats more worth to the company 20.000 tons of minerals to get back to Earth or putting the lives and the cargo in jeopardy for a simple alien warning signal.
Therefore they had to know it.
And think about it. If they knew they have a one of a kind, precious alien for bioweapons division there, they would send some dumb truckers in a battered old oil ship to retrieve? No. They would send some super team right away like in Alien 3
If they had known about it they would've sent special personnel to deal with it and not jeopardize the catch by sending in a bunch of civilians fiddling with it, and on top of that wasting billions of dollars worth of ore and company property. They sent Ash as a last minute resort since they just found out about the signal. From the company's point of view they did the right thing, too bad for them Ash went haywire (that synth literally had a few screws loose).
Quote from: StrangeShape on Apr 03, 2011, 11:11:33 AM
Quote from: Infected on Apr 03, 2011, 11:03:50 AM
I mean whats more worth to the company 20.000 tons of minerals to get back to Earth or putting the lives and the cargo in jeopardy for a simple alien warning signal.
Therefore they had to know it.
And think about it. If they knew they have a one of a kind, precious alien for bioweapons division there, they would send some dumb truckers in a battered old oil ship to retrieve? No. They would send some super team right away like in Alien 3
How would you capture a xeno? go head on with a attack crew and knowing or your men will get killed or the xeno would get wasted or would you try to trap it contain it in a closed enviroment? were you could put it to sleep. i know this is a bad comparison but look at how they did it in ressurection put a group of suckers in a room and get them infected and voila.
No, you send a team to grab an egg.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 03, 2011, 11:31:35 AM
No, you send a team to grab an egg.
...But wouldn't that be too easy?
Quote from: Infected on Apr 03, 2011, 11:27:35 AM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Apr 03, 2011, 11:11:33 AM
Quote from: Infected on Apr 03, 2011, 11:03:50 AM
I mean whats more worth to the company 20.000 tons of minerals to get back to Earth or putting the lives and the cargo in jeopardy for a simple alien warning signal.
Therefore they had to know it.
And think about it. If they knew they have a one of a kind, precious alien for bioweapons division there, they would send some dumb truckers in a battered old oil ship to retrieve? No. They would send some super team right away like in Alien 3
How would you capture a xeno? go head on with a attack crew and knowing or your men will get killed or the xeno would get wasted or would you try to trap it contain it in a closed enviroment? were you could put it to sleep. i know this is a bad comparison but look at how they did it in ressurection put a group of suckers in a room and get them infected and voila.
This
Quote from: SiL on Apr 03, 2011, 11:31:35 AM
No, you send a team to grab an egg.
And the fact that we see in Alien 3 what an alien retrieving mission is like - they are send in a war ship with the armed and shielded team. For one alien they send a giant war ship specially for the alien, with one of the company's biggest names, best surgeons and armed team with cages for the alien and special suits. And yet for a ship full of eggs they wouldnt bother sending anyone but a group of cheap truckers in an old freighter who would probably try to kill him? Does not compute
Quote from: SiL on Apr 03, 2011, 11:31:35 AM
No, you send a team to grab an egg.
Is not possible,
as far as i know the eggs get activated by something and always when humans around.
You can trap it though but dont know how long a facehugger will live or survive on its own.
It's, indeed possible, and much easy may I say. They just have to grab it with a mechanical arm, and put it into a container. Job done.
Quote from: StrangeShape on Apr 03, 2011, 11:42:53 AM
Quote from: Infected on Apr 03, 2011, 11:27:35 AM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Apr 03, 2011, 11:11:33 AM
Quote from: Infected on Apr 03, 2011, 11:03:50 AM
I mean whats more worth to the company 20.000 tons of minerals to get back to Earth or putting the lives and the cargo in jeopardy for a simple alien warning signal.
Therefore they had to know it.
And think about it. If they knew they have a one of a kind, precious alien for bioweapons division there, they would send some dumb truckers in a battered old oil ship to retrieve? No. They would send some super team right away like in Alien 3
How would you capture a xeno? go head on with a attack crew and knowing or your men will get killed or the xeno would get wasted or would you try to trap it contain it in a closed enviroment? were you could put it to sleep. i know this is a bad comparison but look at how they did it in ressurection put a group of suckers in a room and get them infected and voila.
This
Quote from: SiL on Apr 03, 2011, 11:31:35 AM
No, you send a team to grab an egg.
And the fact that we see in Alien 3 what an alien retrieving mission is like - they are send in a war ship with the armed and shielded team. For one alien they send a giant war ship specially for the alien, with one of the company's biggest names, best surgeons and armed team with cages for the alien and special suits. And yet for a ship full of eggs they wouldnt bother sending anyone but a group of cheap truckers in an old freighter who would probably try to kill him? Does not compute
The situation in Alien3 is different its already on the loose i bet they would have send that same warship when the Nostromo came into close range of Earth or at least meet it halfway to intercept.
And they didnt know the jockey was dead and the jockey was probably to there knowledge not able to be controlled and a weapon like the xeno's.
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Apr 03, 2011, 11:44:53 AM
It's, indeed possible, and much easy may I say. They just have to grab it with a mechanical arm, and put it into a container. Job done.
Maybe,
in a paul anderson script.
Or just simple thinking on WY's part, don't you think?
It's not impossible, come on.
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Apr 03, 2011, 11:57:20 AM
Or just simple thinking on WY's part, don't you think?
It's not impossible, come on.
Ive always believed that they are far superior to humans because they feel things and like a sixth sense we have they have too and when they are moved by something like mechanics they feel they know they get activated.
But as long as there a 4 different movies on them yes you could be right.
If I use a mechanical arm to grab the egg on a distance, and then put it in a safe container, the job is done, and there's nothing farfetched. At all.
...But people here are into far-fetched conspiracies. The more implausible and illogical the evil master-plan is, the better.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Apr 03, 2011, 12:05:02 PM
...But people here are into far-fetched conspiracies. The more implausible and illogical the evil master-plan is, the better.
Not really,
if you watch Alien you can tell they are send there as meat for the grinder.
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Apr 03, 2011, 12:02:26 PM
If I use a mechanical arm to grab the egg on a distance, and then put it in a safe container, the job is done, and there's nothing farfetched. At all.
Great then you go on ahead and do that.
go get some eggs with you mech arm.
But you dont have one and you dont have xeno eggs,
so kinda farfetched of you to say such a farfetched thing. ;)
Quote from: Infected on Apr 03, 2011, 12:13:51 PM
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Apr 03, 2011, 12:05:02 PM
...But people here are into far-fetched conspiracies. The more implausible and illogical the evil master-plan is, the better.
Not really,
if you watch Alien you can tell they are send there as meat for the grinder.
Hence the "illogical the evil master-plan" part...
Quote from: Infected on Apr 03, 2011, 12:16:10 PM
Great then you go on ahead and do that.
go get some eggs with you mech arm.
But you dont have one and you dont have xeno eggs,
so kinda farfetched of you to say such a farfetched thing. ;)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi848.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fab43%2FOmegaZilla95%2FHumorous%2520Images%2520and%2520GIFs%2Fobvious-troll.jpg&hash=e701273d83a73b3e9a84dfe5a76e9d13ad646019)
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Apr 03, 2011, 12:39:37 PM
Quote from: Infected on Apr 03, 2011, 12:13:51 PM
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Apr 03, 2011, 12:05:02 PM
...But people here are into far-fetched conspiracies. The more implausible and illogical the evil master-plan is, the better.
Not really,
if you watch Alien you can tell they are send there as meat for the grinder.
Hence the "illogical the evil master-plan" part...
You miss the camera work on Ash i say go watch it again.
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Apr 03, 2011, 12:40:46 PM
Quote from: Infected on Apr 03, 2011, 12:16:10 PM
Great then you go on ahead and do that.
go get some eggs with you mech arm.
But you dont have one and you dont have xeno eggs,
so kinda farfetched of you to say such a farfetched thing. ;)
http://i848.photoket.com/albums/ab43/OmegaZilla95/Humorous%20Images%20and%20GIFs/obvious-troll.jpg
No U!
I am still confused. So Initially the company knew something was there on LV 426. They knew because its beacon repeated every 12 seconds. The Company heard and deciphered the beacon some time prior to the Nostromo's trek to retrieve ore from Thedus. Two weeks before the Nostromo set "sail", the Company replaced the old science officer with Ash, whom they have preprogrammed to enact their plan of retrieving and protecting the alien life form. They then re-routed the Nostromo to the same area. They knew that the Nostromo would pick up the distress signal and, according to Company regulations, would be forced to respond to it, and Ash would be there to make sure that the mission was carried out.
Is this right so far?
Then accessing the ship's computer, Ripley discovers that Ash has been ordered to return the Alien to the Nostromo's corporate employers even at the expense of the crew. So now the Company knows about the Alien and how dangerous it is right?
Then we all know what happens next. Yada, yada, yada, Ripley escapes threw shuttle and goes into hyper sleep.
Now in Aliens some 57 years later the escape shuttle was picked up by a deep salvage team hoping to claim possession of the "wreckage." They discovered that Ripley was still alive. Ripley has an interview before a panel of executives from her employer, the Weyland-Yutani Corporation. She gives them the coordinates to the Derelict. So the distress signal obviously stopped some time ago. Then Ripley finds out there is a colony on LV 426, and the colony never came into contact with any hostile organisms.
So the company never knew the exact location of the Derelict, they only knew it was on or near LV 426. The Company probably listed the Nostromo as 'missing', but they may have sent an investigative crew to the planet, landed on the opposite side from where the derelict ship landed, and found nothing. Another possibility is that the Company may have wanted to cover up the entire incident. An elaborate investigation into the disappearance of the Nostromo might have revealed that they sacrificed the crew in order to obtain a specimen of the Alien. In order to protect the Company, they may have buried the incident until there was an opportunity to have the colonists on LV-426 take a look. It's possible that the Company may actually have sent the colonists to LV-426 for just that purpose. Later on Ripley finds out that Burke was the one who deliberately sent the colonists to investigate the derelict ship after hearing about it from Ripley's testimony.
So Burk acted alone by sending the colonist the coordinates to the derelict, but it is possible that the company was also still interested in the in it because they put the colony on LV 426.
Is this right so far? If so then I hope it answers some of questions and confusion going around here.
Ash was authorized to bring something back by any means necessary. The actions of the Company in the first film don't speak to a group of people who know about the Alien.
The Company didn't put the colony there to check for the derelict. LV-426 is a planetoid; it wouldn't take 57 years to find it if they'd been inclined to look.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 06, 2011, 08:50:20 AM
Ash was authorized to bring something back by any means necessary. The actions of the Company in the first film don't speak to a group of people who know about the Alien.
The Company didn't put the colony there to check for the derelict. LV-426 is a planetoid; it wouldn't take 57 years to find it if they'd been inclined to look.
They were put there, but never given instructions to look. Perhaps the company wanted them to discover it on their own, so that it would appear that the company had no knowledge of it. IDK. Besides it was in an area of volcanic activity I thought, making it an unlikely place to find it.
I think WY either 1) changed the management 2) rerouting Nostromo was only a behind the curtains plan of one or very few individuals, like with Burke 3) After Nostromo disappeared everyone got scared and washed their hands and didnt want to touch it anymore
QuoteSo Initially the company knew something was there on LV 426. They knew because its beacon repeated every 12 seconds. The Company heard and deciphered the beacon some time prior to the Nostromo's trek to retrieve ore from Thedus.
More or less.
QuoteTwo weeks before the Nostromo set "sail", the Company replaced the old science officer with Ash, whom they have preprogrammed to enact their plan of retrieving and protecting the alien life form. They then re-routed the Nostromo to the same area. They knew that the Nostromo would pick up the distress signal and, according to Company regulations, would be forced to respond to it, and Ash would be there to make sure that the mission was carried out.
Mostly. Ash was assigned two
days before they left Thedus. It's debatable that Ash was 'preprogrammed'. He was simply a machine doing what he was told.
QuoteThen accessing the ship's computer, Ripley discovers that Ash has been ordered to return the Alien to the Nostromo's corporate employers even at the expense of the crew. So now the Company knows about the Alien and how dangerous it is right?
No, they know that because they sent a tug to check a transmission that turned out to be a warning, it was likely something hostile would be there, rather than something benign. There's nothing to show they knew about the Alien with a capital A.
The rest of your post is speculatory in terms of what happened after.
I look at in the same way that of ye olde sailing ships. Ships used to get lost at sea all the time. No one investigated or looked for them becuase in most instances it was utterly futile. Same with a ship being lost in space. Insurance would've covered the loss (assuming no one found out about SO 937 - which they didn't).
As far as the colony was concerned - if the Company knew about the Alien there's no reason for the company to wait 57 years to try and exploit it. Alien3 bears this out.
^Thanks, now I totally understand the facts, time line and get it.
Quote from: Infected on Apr 03, 2011, 12:00:43 PM
Ive always believed that they are far superior to humans because they feel things and like a sixth sense we have they have too and when they are moved by something like mechanics they feel they know they get activated.
But as long as there a 4 different movies on them yes you could be right.
It's the exact same logic as a bomb-defusing robot. We have the technology to make something like this now. Of course we'd be able to in 150 years.
Has anyone taken into consideration that maybe they weren't after the alien in Alien 3, but were after the queen in Ripley?
Yes, they sent word to Andrews that a rescue team was on their way. But as soon as the datastream from the EEV was received, (which was instantaneous and further proves my theory that the company has a communication link with each of its ships and that they have known all along). As soon as the datastream was received, the arrival time jumped from a week to expected arrival in two hours!
So... I think (a.) THAT team wasn't the rescue team that was sent, I think that was a science team that was already in that sector. (B.) They weren't there for the dog alien, they were there for the queen. It just seems more logical.
And as seen in Alien resurrection, (god I can't believe I'm referencing that stupid movie...gag), it's not unheard of for a company to do experimentation illegally, hidden in deep space.
Quote from: pred169 on Apr 15, 2011, 02:38:06 PM
So... I think (a.) THAT team wasn't the rescue team that was sent, I think that was a science team that was already in that sector.
And conveniently had Bishop's designer on it for RIpley?
Quote(B.) They weren't there for the dog alien, they were there for the queen.
Nah. They brought cages and were dressed like the dog catchers in anti-biting suits. They were there for the Runner as well
QuoteIt just seems more logical.
First of all nobody knew WHEN exactly the rescue team will aririve. The "weeks" thing was just a "maybe" from Clemens, it wasnt something given. They said theyre on their way. When they were close enough (2 hours) they announced that theyre closing in.
Quote from: pred169 on Apr 15, 2011, 02:38:06 PM
So... I think (a.) THAT team wasn't the rescue team that was sent, I think that was a science team that was already in that sector. (B.) They weren't there for the dog alien, they were there for the queen. It just seems more logical.
Whether or not it was the intention of the scriptwriters, it seems to be that way.
Ok, first of all bishops creator being there can be explained easily. The man designed an android... I think knowing that, we can safely assume he was a part of the science team. And that team was probably rerouted from it's present location once the sensors on board the sulaco detected an alien moving around on board.
And as far as the cage, I don't think that was a cage. It looked more like a stretcher. And the first thing spoken by anyone on that team was "where's Ripley, is she still alive". Which indicated to me that they really weren't to concerned about the hell hound. As far as your "bite suits", (nicely put by the way), it was probably the most advanced body armor available. Just in case.
As far as the time frame goes, Andrews made the comment during his "rumor control" briefing. That he had requested a rescue team and that "hopefully they would be there inside of a week". I'm only guessing here but when he was communicating with the company via computer terminal, I would think that they gave him an estimated arrival time.
I don't think they would say they were going to arrive in about a week and then show up the same day. That's like ordering a pizza and being told expect delivery between thirty minutes to six days. I think they can be a little more precise than that.
Quote from: pred169 on Apr 15, 2011, 07:50:25 PM
Ok, first of all bishops creator being there can be explained easily. The man designed an android... I think knowing that, we can safely assume he was a part of the science team. And that team was probably rerouted from it's present location once the sensors on board the sulaco detected an alien moving around on board.
Its still a major reaching. A big name like Mike Bishop JUST happens to be , for some reason, on a rescue mission instead of sitting in the office and so incredibly convenient being close to Ripley who had good experiences with Bishop? And conveniently had a surgeon team on? Im sorry, but thats a stretch I cant make
QuoteAnd as far as the cage, I don't think that was a cage. It looked more like a stretcher. And the first thing spoken by anyone on that team was "where's Ripley, is she still alive". Which indicated to me that they really weren't to concerned about the hell hound. As far as your "bite suits", (nicely put by the way), it was probably the most advanced body armor available. Just in case.
What they brought was a cage, and we know from Aliens that what they wore wasnt a standard armor and it was obviously an anti-animal biting suits - http://weyland-yutaniarchives.blogspot.com/2009/09/dog-catcher-commandos-of-alien-3.html
(http://weyland-yutaniarchives.blogspot.com/2009/09/dog-catcher-commandos-of-alien-3.html)
QuoteAs far as the time frame goes, Andrews made the comment during his "rumor control" briefing. That he had requested a rescue team and that "hopefully they would be there inside of a week". I'm only guessing here but when he was communicating with the company via computer terminal, I would think that they gave him an estimated arrival time.
First of all, Andrews himself says he ASSUMED theyll be here within a week. It seems they said theyre sending someone immediately and he assume its gonna be a week. Clemens restates that when he also says that week is his guess and ETA is unknown.
Secondly, its obvious they were asking for Ripley first because she had a Queen inside, but they received that info while they were on their way already. But they went on to pick up Ripley and alien. Thats why they had team dressed up for capturing and fighting alien, thats why they had a surgical team (who received the scan fro Sulaco showing Ripley getting impregnated) and why a friendly face was sent, and such a big shot suit
Quote from: StrangeShape on Apr 15, 2011, 08:23:30 PM
Quote from: pred169 on Apr 15, 2011, 07:50:25 PM
Ok, first of all bishops creator being there can be explained easily. The man designed an android... I think knowing that, we can safely assume he was a part of the science team. And that team was probably rerouted from it's present location once the sensors on board the sulaco detected an alien moving around on board.
Its still a major reaching. A big name like Mike Bishop JUST happens to be , for some reason, on a rescue mission instead of sitting in the office and so incredibly convenient being close to Ripley who had good experiences with Bishop? And conveniently had a surgeon team on? Im sorry, but thats a stretch I cant make
I'm not sure whats being debated hear, but Bishop was the science team. He even say's to Ripley "you must let me have it, it's a magnificent specimen". I got the impression that he wanted the Alien more then anything. :)
Quote from: bleau on Apr 15, 2011, 10:05:37 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Apr 15, 2011, 08:23:30 PM
Quote from: pred169 on Apr 15, 2011, 07:50:25 PM
Ok, first of all bishops creator being there can be explained easily. The man designed an android... I think knowing that, we can safely assume he was a part of the science team. And that team was probably rerouted from it's present location once the sensors on board the sulaco detected an alien moving around on board.
Its still a major reaching. A big name like Mike Bishop JUST happens to be , for some reason, on a rescue mission instead of sitting in the office and so incredibly convenient being close to Ripley who had good experiences with Bishop? And conveniently had a surgeon team on? Im sorry, but thats a stretch I cant make
I'm not sure whats being debated hear, but Bishop was the science team. He even say's to Ripley "you must let me have it, it's a magnificent specimen". I got the impression that he wanted the Alien more then anything. :)
The point is that Bishop was a big name who went after the alien personally, he didnt just happen to be around on another mission and drop by Fury
Agree. Anything beyond that is just speculation.
QuoteHas anyone taken into consideration that maybe they weren't after the alien in Alien 3, but were after the queen in Ripley?
No they were after whatever they could get - more likely a hugger or full grown Alien. There's a good chance they knew Ripley was carrying, but they only knew she had a Queen after she scanned herself.
In regards to Bishop - there's nothing to suggest he was "big name". Considering the time it took the Patna to get to Fiorina (inside of a week Andrews said - which ended up being true), it likely came from a nearby colony - where Bishop was already stationed - rather than Sol.
Quote from: SM on Apr 15, 2011, 11:28:15 PM
QuoteHas anyone taken into consideration that maybe they weren't after the alien in Alien 3, but were after the queen in Ripley?
No they were after whatever they could get - more likely a hugger or full grown Alien. There's a good chance they knew Ripley was carrying, but they only knew she had a Queen after she scanned herself.
In regards to Bishop - there's nothing to suggest he was "big name". Considering the time it took the Patna to get to Fiorina (inside of a week Andrews said - which ended up being true), it likely came from a nearby colony - where Bishop was already stationed - rather than Sol.
Well, that makes sense to me. :)
Quote from: SM on Apr 15, 2011, 11:28:15 PM
QuoteHas anyone taken into consideration that maybe they weren't after the alien in Alien 3, but were after the queen in Ripley?
No they were after whatever they could get - more likely a hugger or full grown Alien. There's a good chance they knew Ripley was carrying, but they only knew she had a Queen after she scanned herself.
In regards to Bishop - there's nothing to suggest he was "big name". Considering the time it took the Patna to get to Fiorina (inside of a week Andrews said - which ended up being true), it likely came from a nearby colony - where Bishop was already stationed - rather than Sol.
Too much of a coincidence. In that case I would champion the idea of Bishop II being a droid with fake blood. Id prefer him to be droid anyway for other reasons anyway
Or, y'know, really good luck for the Company.
QuoteToo much of a coincidence.
Why? Why have colonies if everyone lives on Earth? There could've been stacks of colonies within a week of Fiorina. Especially if you have a fast ship - and a pressing need. And Earth was likely not much more than two weeks away (if that). They talk about "the ass end of space" and "end of the totem pole". But that might just mean there's no more colonies beyond Fiorina in that quadrant.
The novel talks about a ship nearby in transit to Motinea. Whether that was Patna is unclear. And unlikely.
Quote from: SM on Apr 16, 2011, 04:07:00 AM
QuoteToo much of a coincidence.
Why? Why have colonies if everyone lives on Earth? There could've been stacks of colonies within a week of Fiorina. Especially if you have a fast ship - and a pressing need. And Earth was likely not much more than two weeks away (if that). They talk about "the ass end of space" and "end of the totem pole". But that might just mean there's no more colonies beyond Fiorina in that quadrant.
The novel talks about a ship nearby in transit to Motinea. Whether that was Patna is unclear. And unlikely.
What I meant was that its too much of a coincidence to have Bishop's designer just be near. Plus, big shots wouldnt travel with rescue teams and risk themselves, they would stay in their offices. Mike Bishop was someone who wanted alien badly, and we see it in the movie, it wasnt just some mission he just happened to be passing nearby, it was something he was passionate about. And he was a "friendly face"
If the Bio Weapons guys set out as soon as they received telemetry from the marines cameras - they could start out before there was even an emergency on the Sulaco and Ripley's crash on Fiorina.
When they find out where Ripley is, they change course and head to Fiorina instead of LV-426.
Quote from: SM on Apr 16, 2011, 07:38:28 AM
If the Bio Weapons guys set out as soon as they received telemetry from the marines cameras - they could start out before there was even an emergency on the Sulaco and Ripley's crash on Fiorina.
When they find out where Ripley is, they change course and head to Fiorina instead of LV-426.
Im fine with that. I just dont believe that Patna just happened to be around doing somehting else and was rerouted to Fury
I don't think anyone would believe that. Bishop was sent to Fiorina on purpose.
Quote from: SM on Apr 16, 2011, 07:55:19 AM
I don't think anyone would believe that.
Well,
Quote from: pred169 on Apr 15, 2011, 02:38:06 PM
So... I think (a.) THAT team wasn't the rescue team that was sent, I think that was a science team that was already in that sector.
Quote from: SM on Apr 15, 2011, 11:28:15 PM
In regards to Bishop - there's nothing to suggest he was "big name". Considering the time it took the Patna to get to Fiorina (inside of a week Andrews said - which ended up being true), it likely came from a nearby colony - where Bishop was already stationed - rather than Sol.
I've always preferred the idea that the Patna was following the Sulaco but keeping a distance, just in case something interesting happened.
It's a pessimistic perspective
I don't agree, but it's possible.
Quote from: StrangeShape on Apr 16, 2011, 08:01:29 AM
Quote from: SM on Apr 16, 2011, 07:55:19 AM
I don't think anyone would believe that.
QuoteWell,
Quote from: pred169 on Apr 15, 2011, 02:38:06 PM
So... I think (a.) THAT team wasn't the rescue team that was sent, I think that was a science team that was already in that sector.
Yeah, not a rescue team a science team. And yeah I think they could have been in another sector, sent to investigate the sulaco, and then got rerouted to fury once the datastream came through that the EEV had crashed with Ripley on board.
I don't see where that's such a stretch. If you were the head of a bio-weapons division wouldn't you want your experts to investigate?
Why were they investigating the Sulaco?
What i'm suggesting is that they were sent as soon as the company recieved transmission that a facehugger had gotten onboard and attatched itself to Ripley. As i said before. knowing that she was infected, the company may have thought that by sending the real bishop she may feel less... "betrayed" if you will. Then during their flight they were given coordinates and rerouted because the company recieved a datastream from the sulaco that it had caught fire and that an EEV had been ejected. As they were on their way to the coordinates of the ejection, the company recieved word from Furina that the EEV had crashed and that Ripley was alive. The company then rerouted the team to Fury.
Later, when Ripley used the Bioscanner and found out she was infected,the datastream was sent to WY. Who then analyzed the data and discovered she was carring a queen. Realizing the potential profit they could gain from having a queen, they then sent the info to the team en route and basicly told them to get their asses in gear. ;D Which hastened the arrival time to two hours.
I realize it's a lot of speculation, but in my line of work i've seen strange events unfold with ties to people and businesses that you would never expect. So it's not far fetched at all to me. ;)
Based on the Alien3 titles, the hugging (apparently not Ripley or Newt) and the fire and evac all occurred in 20 seconds. And they would also suggest they were very near Fiorina. It's impossible to judge transmission times. LV-426 had a 1 week transmission time to Earth. Fiorina is closer to Earth and their communications are quicker, even though their system looks more primitive. As for the Sulaco's systems - possibly faster than Fiorina, but certainly not instantaneous.
So the Patna isn't likely to have launched from Earth from when they found out about the fire on the Sulaco. If they did come from Earth it's more likely they launched when they got wind of what was happening at Hadley.
Lots of variables.
I agree, there is definitely a lot of variables. But why would the EEV have an instantaneous data link and the sulaco not?
When Ripley uses the bioscanner, which takes all of a minute and a half, the computer gets a response pretty much immediately advising a two hour arrival time.
So when did the derelict stopped transmitting the signal. ::)
Quote from: Infected on Apr 18, 2011, 02:56:33 PM
So when did the derelict stopped transmitting the signal. ::)
You can chose 2 explanations
Alien:
Dallas turns it off in the novelization (script too but I not sure)
Aliens:
The violent quakes and lava flows heavily damage the ship tremendously(in the movie its completely thrashed, broken and ripped apart as oppose to its intact form in original), thus during the destruction the signal emitter gets destroyed
Quote from: StrangeShape on Apr 18, 2011, 03:00:04 PM
Quote from: Infected on Apr 18, 2011, 02:56:33 PM
So when did the derelict stopped transmitting the signal. ::)
You can chose 2 explanations
Alien:
Dallas turns it off in the novelization (script too but I not sure)
Aliens:
The violent quakes and lava flows heavily damage the ship tremendously(in the movie its completely thrashed, broken and ripped apart as oppose to its intact form in original), thus during the destruction the signal emitter gets destroyed
I would go for nr2
The second option is simplest. Though Dallas also switched it off in the comic too.
QuoteBut why would the EEV have an instantaneous data link and the sulaco not?
It doesn't.
QuoteWhen Ripley uses the bioscanner, which takes all of a minute and a half, the computer gets a response pretty much immediately advising a two hour arrival time.
There's a gap between Ripley and Aaron doing the scan, and them contacting the Network. And by this point the Patna is only a couple of hours away.
Quote from: SM on Apr 18, 2011, 11:04:08 PM
There's a gap between Ripley and Aaron doing the scan, and them contacting the Network. And by this point the Patna is only a couple of hours away.
?... is "Patna" from the script,novelization..or comic? I've not read them...am curious as I never knew the name of the ship in A3.
Thanks in advance!
D
Novelization.
At least ADF was on the ball keeping up the Conrad references.
They really didn't.
Any ship running into an alien transmission has to respond. This is established in the movie. Company knows of a transmission, sends Ash along with the crew to ensure the return of something. What is never stated; Special Order 937 simply says to return a specimen of whatever it is they find.
People are trying to make a point of Ripley deciphering part of the message; all she gets is that it looks like a warning. Looks like a warning. The Company may well have figured this much out, too, but just because they knew it was a warning doesn't mean they know what it was warning about. Maybe there was a radiation leak. Maybe there was a nasty alien flu that could easily be avoided using their spacesuits.
The actions of the Company as shown in the film speak of people knowing shit's out there, not whose shit specifically.<br/>
yes but at the same they had to know it was a hostile organism. Ash said the order was to bring back lifeform at all cost. Crew expendable......you don't make that kind of statement in a memo to the science officer unless ..... you already know the organism is hostile.
If they stated crew expendable and sent the order to the science officer only that shows motive, intent, and prior knowledge of what they are about to get into. Besides.....do you really think that the Company doesn't have more advanced tools and technology than what is on one of their TUG BOATS..... you may want to take that into consideration....
just sayin [emoji53]
Sorry about the length. Just downloaded tapatalk. Still getting used to it. Not really sure how to quote yet.
Quoteyou don't make that kind of statement in a memo to the science officer unless ..... you already know the organism is hostile.
No, you leave that kind of statement
in case it's hostile. Or deadly.
Quote from: Infected on Apr 18, 2011, 03:02:55 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Apr 18, 2011, 03:00:04 PM
Quote from: Infected on Apr 18, 2011, 02:56:33 PM
So when did the derelict stopped transmitting the signal. ::)
You can chose 2 explanations
Alien:
Dallas turns it off in the novelization (script too but I not sure)
Aliens:
The violent quakes and lava flows heavily damage the ship tremendously(in the movie its completely thrashed, broken and ripped apart as oppose to its intact form in original), thus during the destruction the signal emitter gets destroyed
I would go for nr2
Alien Isolation
Sil I have military and law enforcement background. Trust me.....you don't make a crew expendable on the off chance that the organism MIGHT be hostile. If a team is sent in to retrieve a lifeform under the pretenses that they are expendable......higher ups are counting on there being losses, Not simply saying it as a precaution.
From what I remember, Ripley reported what she encountered to the company. That means before they sent off the team they knew about the eggs, the alien, etc.
Quote from: monkeylove on Apr 03, 2015, 05:21:59 AM
From what I remember, Ripley reported what she encountered to the company. That means before they sent off the team they knew about the eggs, the alien, etc.
We are referring to the events before the second film.
Quote from: pred169 on Apr 03, 2015, 02:06:51 AM
Sil I have military and law enforcement background. Trust me.....you don't make a crew expendable on the off chance that the organism MIGHT be hostile. If a team is sent in to retrieve a lifeform under the pretenses that they are expendable......higher ups are counting on there being losses, Not simply saying it as a precaution.
It's space travel in a fictional movie in a fictional universe. The point is that the company is faceless and apathetic. They don't care if the crew die, but they're a company -- it's obviously better if they don't. They're just willing to take that chance.
Yeah i get that its a fictional movie but the point of back story even in a fictional movie is to seem as close to real as possible. So i dont know Seems thin man. Even for corporate. I mean just the chance of lawsuits and litigation would be enough to stop most companies. For them to take a chance on an organism and be willing to expend the crew to gain access to said organism would be proof enough for me that they knew it was hostile.
If they knew there was something specific there and that it was definitely hostile and they really, really wanted it, they would've sent a properly equipped team. We know this, because it's exactly what they did the one time they explicitly knew about the Alien and went to get it -- Alien3.
Everything in the movie speaks to them knowing "something" is there, but not what; that they'd like "it", and that they're okay if it goes south so long as it comes back.
Precisely! .....they knew "it" was hostile. There could be several reasons they didn't send a properly equipped team. It could have been that they felt time was of the escense and they were worried about someone else getting there first to stake a claim on it. It could have been that they felt an anvanced android and a group of miners could handle the organism with minimal losses. They anticipated losses but not a whole crew. The fact that they sent in an armed well equipped team in alien 3 is irrelevant. The events on the nostromo could have very well been why the team arrived as they did in alien 3. Armed and prepared and not wanting to make the same mistake again. It could even be that WY had sent it's best men and tech to the other planet where the events of prometheus took place. I'm sure the company kept tabs on the flight recorder from prometheus and knew the planet was basically a weapons depot. They may have been enroute to this planet instead trying to get there hands on as much bio weaponry as possible...like I said there's a million different possibilities. I just feel that they had to know the organism was hostile.
It's not irrelevant. If they knew what it was, and that it was hostile, they wouldn't send unarmed, unprepared people.
They may know that it's hostile but not that it's THAT lethal and that's what the synthetic was for. And like I said it may have been that time was a factor
According to me it was a time factordue to no one knows for how long that signal will be active or from what it comes from, if it is a working ship it would mean that ship could take off and leave, I also suspect they knew the signal were of the same type of technology they encountered on the other planet in prometheus so they know what it could meana nd what the crew could meet.
Also someone else could get there before them else.
Another theory related to that is: They knew it was from the space jockies and they last experience the company had was the black goo thing so they dont know exactly if this signal comes from a base or ship etc and what kind of weapon it has, black goo or a creatures or technological weapons? Or maybe just a empty ship? When you dont exactly know if it is something you want or is just junk then its risky to send in an expensive armed ship and crew there, why not send the transport ship nostromo to check it out and order the android to secure a species if whatever the signal comes from has something? IF it is a super weapon then the crew is expendable and then its worth to go to the ship and get it for further studies, else if the crew dont face anything dangerous or some lame weapon they themselves can beat without problems then we wait til they return and just have a report about it and maybe send a investigation ship there if it is worth it.
In this case it just happen they encountered the perfect species and the company probably regret that decision xD
In River of pain, iirc the company knows that the ship/alien specimens are somewhere around there, the colony was set up to try and find it. It was pure luck that the nostromo passed by it and found it. the special order is probably a company wide policy. So it just happen that the nostromo flew within range of the signal. Ash's objective was to find this organism and bring it back. they cant be 100% prepared on every space ship.
But after the nostromo somehow the company knew the aliens were in a section of space adn figured 426 was probaly the best bet. so they set up the colony to try and find it.
Quote from: monkeylove on Apr 03, 2015, 05:21:59 AM
From what I remember, Ripley reported what she encountered to the company. That means before they sent off the team they knew about the eggs, the alien, etc.
i dont think that was the company, it looked like a bunch of interstellar commerce commission reps and government suits
Quote from: pred169 on Apr 03, 2015, 12:39:26 PM
Quote from: monkeylove on Apr 03, 2015, 05:21:59 AM
From what I remember, Ripley reported what she encountered to the company. That means before they sent off the team they knew about the eggs, the alien, etc.
We are referring to the events before the second film.
I am referring to the first post of the thread, which I think refers to the second film.
Quote from: swarm87 on Apr 04, 2015, 11:01:34 PM
Quote from: monkeylove on Apr 03, 2015, 05:21:59 AM
From what I remember, Ripley reported what she encountered to the company. That means before they sent off the team they knew about the eggs, the alien, etc.
i dont think that was the company, it looked like a bunch of interstellar commerce commission reps and government suits
It is very likely that company officials were involved given the destruction of company property and the presence of insurance investigators.
Quote from: pred169 on Apr 04, 2015, 01:22:34 AM
Precisely! .....they knew "it" was hostile. There could be several reasons they didn't send a properly equipped team. It could have been that they felt time was of the escense and they were worried about someone else getting there first to stake a claim on it. It could have been that they felt an anvanced android and a group of miners could handle the organism with minimal losses. They anticipated losses but not a whole crew. The fact that they sent in an armed well equipped team in alien 3 is irrelevant. The events on the nostromo could have very well been why the team arrived as they did in alien 3. Armed and prepared and not wanting to make the same mistake again. It could even be that WY had sent it's best men and tech to the other planet where the events of prometheus took place. I'm sure the company kept tabs on the flight recorder from prometheus and knew the planet was basically a weapons depot. They may have been enroute to this planet instead trying to get there hands on as much bio weaponry as possible...like I said there's a million different possibilities. I just feel that they had to know the organism was hostile.
From what I remember, they had a ship with nuclear weapons, drop ships with missiles, armored personnel carriers with heavy weapons, all sorts of small arms, etc.
Scott himself said the company had no clue whats there, as SiL says.
Scott: "This particular corporation didn't have any preconceived notion that an alien would be found on this mission, much less the particular alien that is brought onto the ship. The idea of bringing it back would not have been on the minds of the corporation executives when they first received the alien transmission. They just had high expectations when they ordered the Nostromo to investigate - it was purely out of curiosity"
Quote from: StrangeShape on Apr 07, 2015, 09:48:24 PMScott himself said the company had no clue whats there, as SiL says.
So why then does Special Order 937 specifically mention an 'organism'?
I always assumed they knew it was a creature of some kind, likely hostile, but didn't know anything beyond that.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 08, 2015, 07:33:32 AM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Apr 07, 2015, 09:48:24 PMScott himself said the company had no clue whats there, as SiL says.
So why then does Special Order 937 specifically mention an 'organism'?
I always assumed they knew it was a creature of some kind, likely hostile, but didn't know anything beyond that.
they had to know SOMETHING otherwise they wouldnt have something like this.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 08, 2015, 07:33:32 AM
So why then does Special Order 937 specifically mention an 'organism'?
Something was making that signal.
I always thought the SO was about grabbing the Jockey. And considering
Prometheus, that might not be far off.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 09, 2015, 03:13:15 AMI always thought the SO was about grabbing the Jockey. And considering Prometheus, that might not be far off.
That's actually an interesting thought.
In fact I really like the idea that the vague order 'organism' made Ash latch onto completely the wrong creature.
He didn't, necessarily. That's what made it aboard and all it said was "organism", so...
Quote from: SiL on Apr 09, 2015, 09:00:52 AMHe didn't, necessarily. That's what made it aboard and all it said was "organism", so...
That's what I mean. The company simply said 'organism' and Ash interpreted it to be the Alien, when they actually meant the Space Jockey. Ash being an android simply applied the directive literally to the only living thing around, even though it wasn't the company's goal. Cool idea.
I want to know, by the way, if there were 937 Special Orders in total and if so, what did the first 936 say?
how did weyland yutani know there was a lifeform on lv 426 ??
why did they not just send and android only mission ??
Quote from: oduodu on Apr 09, 2015, 02:03:19 PMhow did weyland yutani know there was a lifeform on lv 426 ??
They decoded (or more likely partially decoded) the signal coming from the moon before the Nostromo even left on its home journey.
Quote from: oduodu on Apr 09, 2015, 02:03:19 PMwhy did they not just send and android only mission ??
Sending a specific mission costs money, takes time to set up and leaves a paper trail. Surreptitiously diverting a commercial flight is both cheaper and quicker.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 09, 2015, 07:36:05 AM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 09, 2015, 03:13:15 AMI always thought the SO was about grabbing the Jockey. And considering Prometheus, that might not be far off.
That's actually an interesting thought.
In fact I really like the idea that the vague order 'organism' made Ash latch onto completely the wrong creature.
damn that is an interesting thought. maybe that answers my question.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 09, 2015, 02:04:47 PM
Quote from: oduodu on Apr 09, 2015, 02:03:19 PMhow did weyland yutani know there was a lifeform on lv 426 ??
They decoded (or more likely partially decoded) the signal coming from the moon before the Nostromo even left on its home journey.
Quote from: oduodu on Apr 09, 2015, 02:03:19 PMwhy did they not just send and android only mission ??
Sending a specific mission costs money, takes time to set up and leaves a paper trail. Surreptitiously diverting a commercial flight is both cheaper and quicker.
i wonder how long they (weyland yutani) spent on the deciphering ? probably a lot longer than mother did. so they probably had a much better idea what exactly it said
Quote from: oduodu on Apr 09, 2015, 02:04:53 PMi wonder how long they (weyland yutani) spent on the deciphering ? probably a lot longer than mother did. so they probably had a much better idea what exactly it said
I'd imagine they also had far more powerful computers to do it with compared to the mainframe on some ageing freighter.
perhaps they got more than just a warning from it like more specific details of what exactly happened to the Space Jockey - that there was a space jockey etc.
I often wonder how much ash really knew. kinda like david i guess.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 09, 2015, 02:04:47 PM
Quote from: oduodu on Apr 09, 2015, 02:03:19 PMwhy did they not just send and android only mission ??
Sending a specific mission costs money, takes time to set up and leaves a paper trail. Surreptitiously diverting a commercial flight is both cheaper and quicker.
Especially if you take into consideration that it was most likely an inside job. Rogue individual/s similar to Burke after personal gain/profit.
The Company (in their official capacity) obviously spared no expense when they went after the specimen in Alien 3.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 09, 2015, 09:14:51 AM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 09, 2015, 09:00:52 AMHe didn't, necessarily. That's what made it aboard and all it said was "organism", so...
That's what I mean. The company simply said 'organism' and Ash interpreted it to be the Alien, when they actually meant the Space Jockey. Ash being an android simply applied the directive literally to the only living thing around, even though it wasn't the company's goal. Cool idea.
Given how advanced technologically the Engineers are, the idea that the 'perfect organism' quote was supposed to refer to them and not the Aliens is pretty terrifying.
Good God of course it does not refer to the Engineers.
It's more likely to refer to whatever is sending the signal, rather than some vague entity that otherwise might be encountered.
Quote from: Omegazilla on Apr 09, 2015, 06:48:16 PM
Good God of course it does not refer to the Engineers.
Yeah - I think it's obvious that that monologue refers to the Alien. I don't think there's room for interpretation there.
I agree that Ash was referring to the Alien, I was just adding that extra comment. Here's my theory:
The Company knew about the Alien, and probably some basics about its biology, though not everything. They somehow discovered that eggs were on LV-426 and decided to use the Nostromo as a vessel to bring home a sample, with Ash as acting as an planted agent. Though we can't say with certainty, I think it's entirely plausible that he knew at least somewhat what was happening to Kane and simply did not relay the knowledge to anyone else so as to keep the others in the dark. His suggestions about changing temperature to try to attack the Alien was a way to distract the crew with bullshit solutions.
Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Apr 10, 2015, 12:05:19 AMThe Company knew about the Alien, and probably some basics about its biology, though not everything. They somehow discovered that eggs were on LV-426 and decided to use the Nostromo as a vessel to bring home a sample, with Ash as acting as an planted agent. Though we can't say with certainty, I think it's entirely plausible that he knew at least somewhat what was happening to Kane and simply did not relay the knowledge to anyone else so as to keep the others in the dark. His suggestions about changing temperature to try to attack the Alien was a way to distract the crew with bullshit solutions.
I don't buy that. Ash looked as surprised as anyone when it popped out of Kane. I get the impression he didn't know what it was, at least until he'd done some studying.
Quote from: oduodu on Apr 09, 2015, 02:03:19 PM
how did weyland yutani know there was a lifeform on lv 426 ??
why did they not just send and android only mission ??
If it's in reference to
Aliens, I think they were told when Ripley returned.
As for the second question, I also thought the same thing years later. I also though it would have been more practical to develop combat robots rather try to turn aliens into bio-weapons, although they could have learned from their physiology.
[/quote]
As for the second question, I also thought the same thing years later. I also though it would have been more practical to develop combat robots rather try to turn aliens into bio-weapons, although they could have learned from their physiology.
[/quote]
Combat synthetics would be susceptible to electrical attacks...ie EMP, hacked software, computer viruses...etc.
Plus if they can initiate a weapon behind enemy lines that is self sustaining, spreads rapidly, and wipes out everthing in sight without having to spend billions of dollars to develop it that would be the way to go. That's why current militant forces try to develop chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons as opposed to cyber attacks and robotics. It's cheaper in the long run. Not to mention there's no way to track the origin of this weapon so fear of repercussions is virtually eliminated.
Besides, if Wren is to be believed, they don't only want the Alien for it's military implications. I'm pretty sure the 2010 AVP game mentioned other technologies derived from the Alien's biology too, like vaccines and alloys.
Right....
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 11, 2015, 09:50:05 AM
Besides, if Wren is to be believed, they don't only want the Alien for it's military implications. I'm pretty sure the 2010 AVP game mentioned other technologies derived from the Alien's biology too, like vaccines and alloys.
Groves, a character from the game, says in a recording that W-Y, want the Aliens so that they can become the dominate species in the universe, I laughed so hard at that though I actually found it stupid, not funny and this is why I hate W-Y depiction in games and other media, they are turned into comic-book villians all the time. Isolation didn't do a bad job though, they kept W-Y subtle like in the first film.
The Company probably only knew about the eggs from the one in the lifeboat that crashed on Fury 161, providing it wasn't destroyed beforehand. That's if my memory serves me correct and the egg(s) wasn't actually elsewhere on the Sulaco.
Prior to this their only other understanding would have been from Ripley's inquest on what happened to the Nostromo and any tranmissions that were sent from Hadley's Hope prior to it blowing up.
Quote from: pred169 on Apr 10, 2015, 11:30:31 PM
Combat synthetics would be susceptible to electrical attacks...ie EMP, hacked software, computer viruses...etc.
Plus if they can initiate a weapon behind enemy lines that is self sustaining, spreads rapidly, and wipes out everthing in sight without having to spend billions of dollars to develop it that would be the way to go. That's why current militant forces try to develop chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons as opposed to cyber attacks and robotics. It's cheaper in the long run. Not to mention there's no way to track the origin of this weapon so fear of repercussions is virtually eliminated.
There are always ways to deal with various attacks, plus the ability to upgrade. Those together with incredible levels of flexibility (drones, maintenance work, scientific work, etc.) makes robots a lot cheaper in the long run.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 11, 2015, 09:50:05 AM
Besides, if Wren is to be believed, they don't only want the Alien for it's military implications. I'm pretty sure the 2010 AVP game mentioned other technologies derived from the Alien's biology too, like vaccines and alloys.
It's more likely these purposes would have been more practical.
If robotics is so much cheaper why are current military forces still using human beings as the primary assault force?....please.... enlighten me. If robotics were cheaper than bio and chemical warfare then that would be the primary focus of military science.
Quote from: monkeylove on Apr 12, 2015, 03:12:13 PMThere are always ways to deal with various attacks, plus the ability to upgrade. Those together with incredible levels of flexibility (drones, maintenance work, scientific work, etc.) makes robots a lot cheaper in the long run.
Doesn't change the fact it's far quicker, cheaper and easier - not to mention less obvious - to divert the Nostromo in
Alien.
Quote from: pred169 on Apr 12, 2015, 04:27:44 PM
If robotics is so much cheaper why are current military forces still using human beings as the primary assault force?....please.... enlighten me. If robotics were cheaper than bio and chemical warfare then that would be the primary focus of military science.
Likely because robots are not yet that sophisticated to think the same way that humans do. That's why the military focused on armaments shown in the second movie.
Also, given the fact that the company could put one robot in something as common as a mining transport ship shows that they are not expensive.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 12, 2015, 04:52:25 PM
Quote from: monkeylove on Apr 12, 2015, 03:12:13 PMThere are always ways to deal with various attacks, plus the ability to upgrade. Those together with incredible levels of flexibility (drones, maintenance work, scientific work, etc.) makes robots a lot cheaper in the long run.
Doesn't change the fact it's far quicker, cheaper and easier - not to mention less obvious - to divert the Nostromo in Alien.
Yeah, that certainly worked in the fourth movie. As for diverting the transport ship, the intent is not to focus on bio-weapons but simply to gain hold of new information or beings for experimentation, etc.
Quote from: Infected on Apr 01, 2011, 08:38:25 PM
Why did they first went out to investigate the colony and not go for the derelict ship instead?
If the company wanted the eggs so bad they could send in two teams one for the colony and one for grabbing "the thousands of eggs the crewmember Kane saw" i mean Ripley can save Newt and stuff and the real bastards can have there war machine without interference of any stuck up curly female.
Because in Alien 3 they specially come for Ripley they send a Sulaco looking craft just for that one creature,
so in between Aliens and Alien3 they had to find out what this creature can do and stuff or they had to know from the start. (Alien) or before that ;)
So my guess would be best to send a team of snatchers and not just one company guy like Burke with a soft belly.
Besides that the derelict ship would have had lots more technology and the jockey inside with the eggs.
ACM solves your question they send a ship there (status interrupted)
I have a feeling that combat synths are completely illegal, hence not being used that often.