Re: ALIEN: Horror or Sci-fi?

[Traveler37]

Is the xenomorph itself sci-fi? No. It's a pure work of fiction. Is the idea of an alien creature sci-fi? No, we have no evidence nor reason to believe life exists beyond the Earth. This falls under I want to believe reasoning. However, there are lots of other elements in each film that allow the film to double as sci-fi such as space travel for example.

Xenomorph, Alien creature in all its forms generally falls under the Science Fiction "Alien/Extraterrestrials" category. In fact, it falls under the "Monster films" category too, which is also classified many times as Science Fiction.
And of course, it's also fiction.

This raises a question: is ET a science-fiction film, simply because it has an extraterrestrial as a main character? Most video stores back in the day and streaming services today would put it under sci-fi, "because it's about an alien!" Probably the easiest place to put it, because that's where the casual movie viewer will look for it. Technically speaking, is this really a science-fiction movie? I would argue no, because there's no speculative science anywhere in the movie. It's about a boy who meets a terrified space traveler accidentally left behind by his spaceship. It's about a boy protecting a traveler, befriending him, and willing to do anything and everything to protect him until his spaceship comes back for him. The boy even wanted to stay connected to the dying ET, hoping is lifeforce would keep ET alive. It's a powerful film about friendship, family, connection, doing the right thing.

Yes, E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial (1982) is officially classified as a science fiction film. The definition of the film comes specifically from the creature, which falls 100% into the sci-fi category, without taking a stand on what else the film also include.

Thank you for telling me what I already said in my post. Please read again.

[BeeHooKoo]

Thank you for telling me what I already said in my post. Please read again.

No problem, I was just answering your question.

[SiL]

No - what I did was to further emphasize that the film's dressing (as you say) which includes the object/Alien itself, determines whether the film is sci-fi or not.

The alien movie becomes non-sci-fi in terms of the creature when you remove all features related to Alien and somehow strongly connect it to the organism we associate with the real world.. But then it is no longer an Alien movie in different genre, but something else, because as the name suggests, the story of the Alien movie is built around creature.

The story of the film is based on the different stages of the creature and the scenes formed around them (egg, facehugger, chestburster, xenomorph), for example the entire existence of the film is based on the chestburster scene. The original story is not told "quite easily" if they are removed.

Never said to remove the life-cycle. You keep inventing that notion and building an argument against it. You've also never explained why the life-cycle is inherently science-fiction, when it could easily be fantasy.

Please re-read what I've written.

[BigDaddyJohn]

Why E.T should be less science fiction than The Thing for example ?

[Traveler37]

Why E.T should be less science fiction than The Thing for example ?

This isn't sci-fi either, it's just straight horror.

[BeeHooKoo]

No - what I did was to further emphasize that the film's dressing (as you say) which includes the object/Alien itself, determines whether the film is sci-fi or not.

The alien movie becomes non-sci-fi in terms of the creature when you remove all features related to Alien and somehow strongly connect it to the organism we associate with the real world.. But then it is no longer an Alien movie in different genre, but something else, because as the name suggests, the story of the Alien movie is built around creature.

The story of the film is based on the different stages of the creature and the scenes formed around them (egg, facehugger, chestburster, xenomorph), for example the entire existence of the film is based on the chestburster scene. The original story is not told "quite easily" if they are removed.

Never said to remove the life-cycle. You keep inventing that notion and building an argument against it. You've also never explained why the life-cycle is inherently science-fiction, when it could easily be fantasy.

Please re-read what I've written.

I just explained it to you. Only one who should re-read what has been written is you, lets repeat:

Again, it's a question of classification, whether vampires are science fiction or fantasy. The matter can be tested by fitting vampires into science fiction categories: is vampirism a virus?..are vampires aliens/extraterrestrials? ..are vampires from the future? ..is vampirism a technology? If you answer "yes" to any of the questions, it's about sci-fi.

In the same way, you can fit vampires into the categories of fantasy: is vampirism mythology?..are vampires associated with magical powers? ..are vampires supernatural? If you answer "yes" to any of the questions, it's a fantasy.

The matter can also be tested in the light of known science: can vampires exist in some scientific context (pseudo-scientific, like traveling at the speed of light) that can be understood as possible? ..if the answer is yes, it's about sci-fi.

Fantasy and sci-fi genres are overlapping in many cases, so in most cases you can't completely line the binary of being only fantasy or sci-fi. For example, the "Frankenstein", which is the progenitor and prototype of many monsters in films and literature, is classified as science fiction, but there are creatures that do not have a direct attachment to any genre category or fit both, they are just fiction like Godzilla...although Godzilla is also some times associated only with science fiction.

So, is Alien creature mythological, does it have magical powers, is it supernatural, or does it involve any factors related to the definition of the fantasy genre? ..and for these factors to work under the fantasy category, their context must be tied to the world we understand.

The creature Alien, as it has been presented in its all forms, does not contain any of these things recognized in the fantasy category.

Of course, in your own "alien" story, you can change the monster to be a magical creature that has no connection to our universe, then it's fantasy. But even one reference or connection to your magical creature and our known universe - your creature is automatically alien/extraterrestrial and with it, your story is science fiction.

And nothing is invented here for the sake of arguments, I don't need to invent anything, everything is recognized common knowledge. I recommend you to find out what are the definitions of sci-fi and fantasy categories, Google is a pretty good tool for that.

[BigDaddyJohn]

Why E.T should be less science fiction than The Thing for example ?

This isn't sci-fi either, it's just straight horror.

So no sci-fi whatsoever in The Thing ? Ok.

[Ingwar]

Main meal: cosmic horror
Sauce: sci-fi gravy

[Traveler37]

Why E.T should be less science fiction than The Thing for example ?

This isn't sci-fi either, it's just straight horror.

So no sci-fi whatsoever in The Thing ? Ok.

Sci-fi = science-fiction = speculative fiction. What was speculated in the film?
Click here for some definitions of science-fiction.

Main meal: cosmic horror
Sauce: sci-fi gravy

Bingo.

[BigDaddyJohn]

I didn't say it wasn't mainly horror. But it's also sci-fi.

[Ingwar]

Horror is also speculative fiction.

[PAS]

Sci-fi is more of a setting than a genre

[SiL]

It can be either, but is usually a setting.

[Traveler37]

I didn't say it wasn't mainly horror. But it's also sci-fi.

You asked, I answered.

Horror is also speculative fiction.

From Wikiedia:
Science-Fiction: "Features technologies and other elements that do not exist in real life but may be supposed to be created or discovered in the future through scientific advancement, such as advanced robots, interstellar travel, aliens, time travel, mutants and cyborgs. Many sci-fi stories are set in the future." - I'm mostly fine with this definition, but aliens and time travel are more fantasy than sci-fi.

Horror: "Focuses on terrifying stories that incite fear. Villains may be either supernatural, such as monsters, vampires, ghosts and demons, or mundane people, such as psychopathic and cruel murderers. Often features violence and death."

Sci-fi is more of a setting than a genre

No, sci-fi is genre, not setting.

[SM]

It's a setting in Alien.