Re: ALIEN: Horror or Sci-fi?

[SiL]

A distress call from another boat and the body of a person found? Right away, you've taken away something.

Nothing of importance to the plot, though. As I mentioned, earlier drafts of the script had the Alien being discovered in human storage silos on the planet -- it didn't change anything about the story. The Jockey is a macguffin quickly forgotten by the plot after the first half hour or so.

2; if it's not a biological Earth creature, and it's not from space (both sci-fi) then you are going the supernatural route, and no longer a creature grounded in reality (which Alien at least tried to do)...

The origin and nature of the Alien is never brought up in the first film. It suffices that this strange thing is found somewhere; where it came from, why it is where it is, and how it got there, are ultimately irrelevant (which left the door open for Covenant).

is it the same movie anymore? when you get to that stage, it's well past just changing the setting..

Setting is more than just the physical location.

For example, what's important to the story is Ripley discovers that a member of the crew who had a keen interest in examining the creature had an ulterior motive for doing so; when found out, that crewmember attacks, and in the struggle is revealed to be an undercover agent working against the rest of the crew.

We can tell this story beat any number of ways. In a sci-fi film, we can reveal that he's an android. In a modern-day horror film, the crew could simply beat the information out of him. In a fantasy film, it could be revealed they're some sort of supernatural entity.

[SM]

Horror in a sci fi setting.

[426Buddy]

I have to agree, horror with a sci-fi setting.

Anyway, I have always had a soft spot for sci-fi horror films.

[SiL]

Sci-fi horror is my favourite genre and ALIEN is the best of them.

[SM]

The Jockey is a macguffin quickly forgotten by the plot after the first half hour or so.

The Jockey - or Yorick - continues to have a presence in the original script, but its removal made zero difference.

Would've made a difference to the sequel mind you...

[SiL]

The Jockey is a macguffin quickly forgotten by the plot after the first half hour or so.

The Jockey - or Yorick - continues to have a presence in the original script, but its removal made zero difference.

Would've made a difference to the sequel mind you...

Hey man, Yorick's head was Roby's big ticket item to make up for the loss of the cargo! He was going to be set when he got back to Irth in 200 years.

[SM]

IRTH - 200 YEARS LATER

Roby rushes out of the lifeboat holding the Yorick head.

ROBY

Hey!  Everyone!  I found extraterrestrial life!

His expression turns to shock.

PULL BACK TO REVEAL

He is surrounded by creatures - GROTESQUE THINGS, BEARING NO RESEMBLANCE TO THE HUMAN FORM.  ALL WITH THE SAME HEAD AS YORICK.

CUT TO:
TITLES

ALIEN - IRTH

[Traveler37]

If we're talking about the original film, it's horror first, sci-fi second, or sci-fi horror. If in the video store, it'd be in the horror section. The film's primary purpose is to horrify the audience. The setting (future, spaceship, alien world) and the plot device (egg, facebugger, chestbusrser, xenomorph) are just a means to isolate the characters, pick them off one by one, and horrify the audience. It's a horror movie.

[Kimo]

Sci-fi Horror.

[BeeHooKoo]

The story doesn't change, but since the creature is not recognized as a scientifically recognized organism on Earth, the film would still be science fiction

Vampires aren't scientifically recognised organisms on Earth, we don't call Dracula sci-fi (and I'm clearly referring to the humanoid vampires of legend, not bats or vampiric animals).

The same goes with werewolves, or any number of folk monsters.

In fact vampires are a perfect analogy. You can tell a vampire story from a science fiction perspective, but a vampire does not necessarily make something science fiction.

Again, it's a question of classification, whether vampires are science fiction or fantasy. The matter can be tested by fitting vampires into science fiction categories: is vampirism a virus?..are vampires aliens/extraterrestrials? ..are vampires from the future? ..is vampirism a technology? If you answer "yes" to any of the questions, it's about sci-fi.

In the same way, you can fit vampires into the categories of fantasy: is vampirism mythology?..are vampires associated with magical powers? ..are vampires supernatural? If you answer "yes" to any of the questions, it's a fantasy.

The matter can also be tested in the light of known science: can vampires exist in some scientific context (pseudo-scientific, like traveling at the speed of light) that can be understood as possible? ..if the answer is yes, it's about sci-fi.

Fantasy and sci-fi genres are overlapping in many cases, so in most cases you can't completely line the binary of being only fantasy or sci-fi. For example, the "Frankenstein", which is the progenitor and prototype of many monsters in films and literature, is classified as science fiction, but there are creatures that do not have a direct attachment to any genre category or fit both, they are just fiction like Godzilla...although Godzilla is also some times associated only with science fiction.

When it comes to the monster of the movie Alien in all its forms, it goes directly into the category of science fiction aliens/extraterrestrials. Xenomorph, facehugger, chestburster, etc. are science fiction in themselves.

In the end, whether or not a sea version of Alien has sci-fi "monster-wise" depends on what the creature represents. As I said before, the movie Abyss shows a creature found in the sea (without any major horror elements) and it is classified as sci-fi (not fantasy) with the appearance of the creature in the movie.

Alien 3 is a good example of this. If we forget about 10 minutes from the beginning of the film, and also EEV and Bishop's reconnection scenes, and determine that the prison is located on Earth, the sci-fi definition of the film depends roughly only on the alien monster.

[SiL]

All you did was prove ALIEN 3 is also a movie that only uses sci fi for dressing.

As presented, ALIEN is clearly a science fiction movie. The point here is whether the sci fi is essential, or simply a means to dress the story.

We can remove the sci fi from ALIEN and tell the story quite easily. None of its sci fi elements are essential, and the creature itself could be of supernatural origin - even in the finished movie, given its true origins and nature are not once touched upon.

We could set it on the open sea in present day and everyone would immediately recognise the story.

[Traveler37]

Alien (1979) is sci-fi horror, it is both. Now, let's go back to the 90's and 00's. You're in the video store, they have 3 copies, where's it gonna be? Horror, not sci-fi, because people watch this movie to have fun being scared for two hours. The same applies to the 3 sequels, 2 AVP films, and the 3 prequels. Now, some video stores might also have it under sci-fi, because it does fit in both genres. Again, the same for sequels, prequels, crossovers.

Is Alien (1979) horror? Yes.
Is Alien (1979) sci-fi? Yes.
Is Alien (1979) horror more-so than sci-fi? Yes.

Is the xenomorph itself sci-fi? No. It's a pure work of fiction. Is the idea of an alien creature sci-fi? No, we have no evidence nor reason to believe life exists beyond the Earth. This falls under I want to believe reasoning. However, there are lots of other elements in each film that allow the film to double as sci-fi such as space travel for example.

[BeeHooKoo]

All you did was prove ALIEN 3 is also a movie that only uses sci fi for dressing.

As presented, ALIEN is clearly a science fiction movie. The point here is whether the sci fi is essential, or simply a means to dress the story.

We can remove the sci fi from ALIEN and tell the story quite easily. None of its sci fi elements are essential, and the creature itself could be of supernatural origin - even in the finished movie, given its true origins and nature are not once touched upon.

We could set it on the open sea in present day and everyone would immediately recognise the story.

No - what I did was to further emphasize that the film's dressing (as you say) which includes the object/Alien itself, determines whether the film is sci-fi or not.

The alien movie becomes non-sci-fi in terms of the creature when you remove all features related to Alien and somehow strongly connect it to the organism we associate with the real world.. But then it is no longer an Alien movie in different genre, but something else, because as the name suggests, the story of the Alien movie is built around creature.

The story of the film is based on the different stages of the creature and the scenes formed around them (egg, facehugger, chestburster, xenomorph), for example the entire existence of the film is based on the chestburster scene. The original story is not told "quite easily" if they are removed.

Is the xenomorph itself sci-fi? No. It's a pure work of fiction. Is the idea of an alien creature sci-fi? No, we have no evidence nor reason to believe life exists beyond the Earth. This falls under I want to believe reasoning. However, there are lots of other elements in each film that allow the film to double as sci-fi such as space travel for example.

Xenomorph, Alien creature in all its forms generally falls under the Science Fiction "Alien/Extraterrestrials" category. In fact, it falls under the "Monster films" category too, which is also classified many times as Science Fiction.
And of course, it's also fiction.

[Traveler37]

Is the xenomorph itself sci-fi? No. It's a pure work of fiction. Is the idea of an alien creature sci-fi? No, we have no evidence nor reason to believe life exists beyond the Earth. This falls under I want to believe reasoning. However, there are lots of other elements in each film that allow the film to double as sci-fi such as space travel for example.

Xenomorph, Alien creature in all its forms generally falls under the Science Fiction "Alien/Extraterrestrials" category. In fact, it falls under the "Monster films" category too, which is also classified many times as Science Fiction.
And of course, it's also fiction.

This raises a question: is ET a science-fiction film, simply because it has an extraterrestrial as a main character? Most video stores back in the day and streaming services today would put it under sci-fi, "because it's about an alien!" Probably the easiest place to put it, because that's where the casual movie viewer will look for it. Technically speaking, is this really a science-fiction movie? I would argue no, because there's no speculative science anywhere in the movie. It's about a boy who meets a terrified space traveler accidentally left behind by his spaceship. It's about a boy protecting a traveler, befriending him, and willing to do anything and everything to protect him until his spaceship comes back for him. The boy even wanted to stay connected to the dying ET, hoping is lifeforce would keep ET alive. It's a powerful film about friendship, family, connection, doing the right thing.

[BeeHooKoo]

Is the xenomorph itself sci-fi? No. It's a pure work of fiction. Is the idea of an alien creature sci-fi? No, we have no evidence nor reason to believe life exists beyond the Earth. This falls under I want to believe reasoning. However, there are lots of other elements in each film that allow the film to double as sci-fi such as space travel for example.

Xenomorph, Alien creature in all its forms generally falls under the Science Fiction "Alien/Extraterrestrials" category. In fact, it falls under the "Monster films" category too, which is also classified many times as Science Fiction.
And of course, it's also fiction.

This raises a question: is ET a science-fiction film, simply because it has an extraterrestrial as a main character? Most video stores back in the day and streaming services today would put it under sci-fi, "because it's about an alien!" Probably the easiest place to put it, because that's where the casual movie viewer will look for it. Technically speaking, is this really a science-fiction movie? I would argue no, because there's no speculative science anywhere in the movie. It's about a boy who meets a terrified space traveler accidentally left behind by his spaceship. It's about a boy protecting a traveler, befriending him, and willing to do anything and everything to protect him until his spaceship comes back for him. The boy even wanted to stay connected to the dying ET, hoping is lifeforce would keep ET alive. It's a powerful film about friendship, family, connection, doing the right thing.

Yes, E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial (1982) is officially classified as a science fiction film. The definition of the film comes specifically from the creature, which falls 100% into the sci-fi category, without taking a stand on what else the film also include.