(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7kP-OOVQAA9N7v.jpg:large)
https://twitter.com/alienanthology/status/844896574794694656
That is f**king awesome!!!!!! :o
Looks like the Queens crest up top a little bit, doesn't it?
Yeah okay, that's pretty damn good!
Nit picking here but the central xeno's shoulders and torso look strange... ???
I wouldn't take any of the images in that poster as being in Covenant, its a mash up of various different styles and - it looks to me - some existing alien poses from different movies redrawn into a poster. The new alien from the trailer is there at the bottom, wiry and muscled as in the trailer and without biomechanical elements, but others do have. One looks like a traditional straight on head pose from alien, one looks like the well known alien head with much elongated jaw and teeth from the (?) avp movies, etc.
I'm not complaining, I think it's excellent, just don't get your hopes up for those different aliens that can be found in the image, is all I'm saying :-)
The central one looks like Alien 3 to me, redrawn with a different body.
Damn that's cool.
I DIG IT ;D
Fracking Amazeballs!! 8)
Hi. The alien in the upper left corner seem to have a tongue similar to the Gigers design for the Alien 3.
This is VERY cool. My fav bit of marketing so far!
Looks like it is based off a classical painting, not sure which one though.
It's cool, but a bit sterile. Screams Z-brush.
That is a damned fine poster.
There's a whole treasure trove of conclusions, and wild assumptions, to be drawn from it by fan boys like us (personally I'm taking the crest at the top to be a reference to the mural in Prometheus, not the Alien Queen).
Edit: Looking at the Prometheus mural again there's really not much on it to compare to the Alien Queen crest, so shall we now all jump to the obvious wild conclusion? :o
Masterpiece. They planned to call this movie Paradise Lost for a reason.
Gustave Doré influence is quite obvious.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/43/b9/29/43b929ac5e340708a98aca47e9f939cf.jpg) (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/Paradise_Lost_1.jpg)
Oh boy. That is everything I want to see. Biomechanical, nightmarish, elegant.
Phenomenal
Beautiful beautiful poster
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10003/AlienCovenant.jpg)
Much bigger resolution poster.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 23, 2017, 01:39:19 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10003/AlienCovenant.jpg)
Much bigger resolution poster.
Ok. Let's look for clues... Anyone spot Shaw or David in that poster?
It also kind of reminds me of the viper pit in Alien Resurrection haha.
Wow! Just Wow
Looks great!!
That definitely looks like a queens crest.
Kinda bummed at the lack of inner jaws.
Is that an Engineer right in the middle getting clutched by some biomechanical tribolite's tentacles?
I'll be damn excited to see live Engineer/s in the movie.
Dayum.
Quote from: Deadmac on Mar 23, 2017, 01:55:12 PM
Is that an Engineer right in the middle getting clutched by some biomechanical tribolite's tentacles?
I'll be damn excited to see live Engineer/s in the movie.
Yes, that is an Engineer! :)
This is impressive! Almost a riff on the bas-relief we saw in the "head" room in the pyramid (Prometheus).. Thanks for posting.
Quote from: Deadmac on Mar 23, 2017, 01:55:12 PMIs that an Engineer right in the middle getting clutched by some biomechanical tribolite's tentacles?
Looks more like a Alien tail, which would fit in with all the other Alien's attacking them.
Also, I like that they're apparently going with the "Path to paradise begins in Hell" tagline. I like it a lot.
Quote from: 426Buddy on Mar 23, 2017, 01:43:05 PM
Kinda bummed at the lack of inner jaws.
Me two, the high definition poster shows nothing of them (not even a hint deep inside a mouth), and neither does any other media :(
Wow. Amazing poster!
Quote from: Enoch on Mar 23, 2017, 01:31:39 PM
Masterpiece. They planned to call this movie Paradise Lost for a reason.
Gustave Doré influence is quite obvious.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/43/b9/29/43b929ac5e340708a98aca47e9f939cf.jpg) (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/Paradise_Lost_1.jpg)
Great catch Enoch!
Great poster!! Plus seeing Engineers makes me happy.
They all looks like protomorphs though,fighting with normal looking engineers??
Wooow
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Mar 23, 2017, 01:40:43 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 23, 2017, 01:39:19 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10003/AlienCovenant.jpg)
Much bigger resolution poster.
Ok. Let's look for clues... Anyone spot Shaw or David in that poster?
And is that a Queen's head crest at top middle?
Quote from: lv_226 on Mar 23, 2017, 02:12:35 PM
Great catch Enoch!
The question is, which of them are the "angels" and which are the "demons"?
Awesome poster, i like they are going frontal Alien-mode in the marketing.
They seem to have realised that people actually want the Alien in a damn Alien movie... ::)
Now this... looks like a movie that matters. This looks like a blockbuster. Well done.
Staggering. Amazing. Frightening. Epic. Bravo. And of course some of you find something to complain about.
Looks like a queen's head right where the 'L' is.
Best poster of the entire franchise seriously.
Glad to see a piece of marketing that is uniting the fans unanimously!
Pure speculation on my part - anyone else think this could be like a mural in an Engineer temple or something? Like an historic event? So not just artwork for marketing purposes?
I love it. It's like a cross between something from Dante's Inferno and HP Lovecraft... A real nightmare.
Well it's certainly not subtle.We know exactly what we're going to get,for good or bad.
Maybe they are keeping the inner jaw hidden for a reason. I am 100% sure that the protomorph has it, because in the shower scene we see that girl being splattered with blood, and it looks like the guy she's having sex with will get headbitten. The reason I think they are keeping it hidden is in my opninion, that this inner jaw is different, not like the one the xenomorph has.
f**k. This one poster is better than Prometheus.
Only joking ;D
Kinda ::)
"They want aliens? I'll giv em f**king aliens!"
- ridley scott
Alien hive in its finest!
Marvellous piece of art, hope the movie will be worth all promo materials accompanying and preceding it ;)
Quote from: SuicideDoors on Mar 23, 2017, 02:53:22 PM
Pure speculation on my part - anyone else think this could be like a mural in an Engineer temple or something? Like an historic event? So not just artwork for marketing purposes?
There will be grand murals in Covenant!
Holy shit I only just saw this AND I CAN'T BREATHE.
The posters keep getting better!
Quote from: Enoch on Mar 23, 2017, 03:05:18 PM
Quote from: SuicideDoors on Mar 23, 2017, 02:53:22 PM
Pure speculation on my part - anyone else think this could be like a mural in an Engineer temple or something? Like an historic event? So not just artwork for marketing purposes?
There will be grand murals in Covenant!
Yeah I'm really thinking this might be lining an Engineer temple wall!
Would make for an eerie scene!
Beautiful and majestic.
Quote from: SuicideDoors on Mar 23, 2017, 03:09:45 PM
Quote from: Enoch on Mar 23, 2017, 03:05:18 PM
Quote from: SuicideDoors on Mar 23, 2017, 02:53:22 PM
Pure speculation on my part - anyone else think this could be like a mural in an Engineer temple or something? Like an historic event? So not just artwork for marketing purposes?
There will be grand murals in Covenant!
Yeah I'm really thinking this might be lining an Engineer temple wall!
Would make for an eerie scene!
Would also disprove the "david created the xenos" theory.
He's just recreating.
We know there will be a great mural in Elder Shrine (as I call it). We ll also see various
different statues outside and inside the shrine. That part of the movie will most probably
build that famous mysterious atmosphere and the sense of wonder like that in Prometheus.
And beneath the citadel, a workshop from hell... Mixture of Frankenstein, Island of Doctor Moreau and
Miltons Paradise Lost..
Quote from: FreeFacehugz on Mar 23, 2017, 03:12:32 PM
Would also disprove the "david created the xenos" theory.
He's just recreating.
That is already disproved!
100% I dont know why people think its David...
He ll probably be the one to show us the true origin of that ancient beast or dark angel as
they called it! David is some kind of narrator of the story, like Virgil in Dantes Inferno or Milton in
Paradise Lost... but not the passive subject of the narrative but also an integral part of it.
There looks to be a female body in the lower right portion of the poster. It also doesn't look it it is being attacked so much as in travail (childbirth..?)
In the top there seens to be a format that is similiar to a Queen's head
Could this be in the movie? I hope so. It would mean that David didn't create the Xenomorph.
holy f**k f**k f**k ;D this poster is gorgeous
I love this.
BUT
It reminds me of VHS cover art. It looks f**king great, and we will see absolutely none of it in the movie. It's like the cover of the classic R.O.T.O.R.cover vs the film R.O.T.O.R. itself.
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 23, 2017, 03:37:47 PM
Could this be in the movie? I hope so. It would mean that David didn't create the Xenomorph.
Spoiler
I still don't think david straight up creates it, but he refines it. The biomechanical parts will come from his tampering
SIR PETER PAUL RUBENS
The Fall of the Rebel Angels, 1621
(https://d32dm0rphc51dk.cloudfront.net/GsPwbG36NaHx-z0pQ6cRrA/larger.jpg)
Rubens engraving is pretty much similar to the works of Gustave Doré.
His Paradise Lost series obviously influenced this poster in many ways.
Engineers are then the Rebel Angels in our version of the story ???
What are the Xenos then??
Quote from: fiveways on Mar 23, 2017, 03:55:51 PM
I love this.
BUT
It reminds me of VHS cover art. It looks f**king great, and we will see absolutely none of it in the movie. It's like the cover of the classic R.O.T.O.R.cover vs the film R.O.T.O.R. itself.
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 23, 2017, 03:37:47 PM
Could this be in the movie? I hope so. It would mean that David didn't create the Xenomorph.
Spoiler
I still don't think david straight up creates it, but he refines it. The biomechanical parts will come from his tampering
I suppose you're right. It's better than David creating it from scratch, but I still don't really like it.
Very nice.
I think this is a set piece! :)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs3.foxmovies.com%2Ffoxmovies%2Fproduction%2Ffilms%2F135%2Fimages%2Ffeature%2Falien-film-header-desktop-v2-front-main-stage.jpg&hash=1b3a6d1c582235ce0461aedb5a4e9117aa6444fb)
Yowza.
Awesome smartphone wallpaper
Amazing!
I think it looks way too good to be a marketing piece only, so I wouldn't be surprised if it actually is in the film.
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 23, 2017, 04:10:57 PM
I think it looks way too good to be a marketing piece only, so I wouldn't be surprised if it actually is in the film.
It is in the film. ;D :D Cathedral interior.
P.S. My presumption but there are some strong
evidence it is indeed in the movie.
I read somewhere that its a set piece from the main stage!!!
Quote from: Enoch on Mar 23, 2017, 04:12:30 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 23, 2017, 04:10:57 PM
I think it looks way too good to be a marketing piece only, so I wouldn't be surprised if it actually is in the film.
It is in the film. ;D :D Cathedral interior.
P.S. My presumption but there are some strong
evidence it is indeed in the movie.
I read somewhere that its a set piece from the main stage!!!
Where did you read this...?! :D
But yeah, I think you're right. In that case David is just recreating the more traditional looking Xenomorph. I suppose he adds the mechanical elements in the next movies, by using engineer tech.
http://s3.foxmovies.com/foxmovies/production/films/135/images/feature/alien-film-header-desktop-v2-front-main-stage.jpg
Maybe I m stupid, but main stage could only mean one...
Quote from: Enoch on Mar 23, 2017, 04:19:00 PM
http://s3.foxmovies.com/foxmovies/production/films/135/images/feature/alien-film-header-desktop-v2-front-main-stage.jpg
Do you have sources??
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Foriginal%2F001%2F038%2F594%2F58d.gif&hash=d4d663b3e4e8ef6789aeae3f794acee4427b5568)
Its a 20thcentury fox link... So Fox is my source :laugh:
I dont know anything more than you.
it looks like a redesign of the deacon mural , but made more obvious for certain viewers lol
The profile of the facehugged Engineer looks pretty much exactly like that Giger life cycle mural, no?
Quote from: shawsbaby on Mar 23, 2017, 04:22:51 PM
The profile of the facehugged Engineer looks pretty much exactly like that Giger life cycle mural, no?
Yes. They used Giger reference in Prometheus mural/relief too, but
it was less obvious.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 23, 2017, 01:39:19 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10003/AlienCovenant.jpg)
Much bigger resolution poster.
Want...
PERFECT POSTER!.
I LOVE IT!.
I'm glad they are fully embracing what they've got in this marketing. We who study the trailers obsessively may not have many surprises left in store, but the average viewer going to the theatre will be in for a treat. This poster will definitely help encourage people to check the movie out, I'd think, since it's so grotesque, bizarre, and mysterious-yet-direct?
Quote from: Enoch on Mar 23, 2017, 04:19:00 PM
http://s3.foxmovies.com/foxmovies/production/films/135/images/feature/alien-film-header-desktop-v2-front-main-stage.jpg
Maybe I m stupid, but main stage could only mean one...
Wait, what do you mean? I don't follow.
Enoch is talking about the words main stage in the link of the image. Perhaps he's right, but I'm not sure.
Quote from: Enoch on Mar 23, 2017, 04:19:00 PM
http://s3.foxmovies.com/foxmovies/production/films/135/images/feature/alien-film-header-desktop-v2-front-main-stage.jpg
Maybe I m stupid, but main stage could only mean one...
... in that it's a resource hosted by Amazon Simple Storage Services (S3) for a website where the site is designed to be viewed on a 'desktop' computer, and I'd assume that 'main stage' just implies the front page.
I'd love to see this as a sculpture in Covenant, but all we're doing is speculating, we have no evidence (either way).
Yes, the poster title is referring to main stage and main stage is stage
inside the film studio :D
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 23, 2017, 04:37:18 PM
Enoch is talking about the words main stage in the link of the image. Perhaps he's right, but I'm not sure.
Right but what would "main stage" suggest?
Quote from: Enoch on Mar 23, 2017, 04:38:51 PM
Yes, the poster title is referring to main stage and main stage is stage
inside the film studio :D
Ah I see what you mean now.
Quote from: Fatboy40 on Mar 23, 2017, 04:38:23 PM
... in that it's a resource hosted by Amazon Simple Storage Services (S3) for a website where the site is designed to be viewed on a 'desktop' computer, and I'd assume that 'main stage' just implies the front page.
I'd love to see this as a sculpture in Covenant, but all we're doing is speculating, we have no evidence (either way).
Thats true. We ll have to wait a little bit longer and see if it is in the movie.
Nothing to say other than it looks fantastic
Fantastic! :o
And yes, that looks like a queen's head up top.
Poster beautiful! I made a direct facebook profile photo.
At the top of the poster it really looks a lot like an alien queen crest with crenellated ledges
Quote from: Bworko on Mar 23, 2017, 04:57:18 PM
Poster beautiful! I made a direct facebook profile photo.
At the top of the poster it really looks a lot like an alien queen crest with crenellated ledges
Maybe "Queen Shaw" will happen after all!
So now, where's the conical head creature that we see in the Prometheus Mural and how the deacon was?
Is the movie skipping from those and turning back towards the old Xenomorph designs?
Quote from: Deadmac on Mar 23, 2017, 05:04:50 PM
So now, where's the conical head creature that we see in the Prometheus Mural and how the deacon was?
Is the movie skipping from those and turning back towards the old Xenomorph designs?
The Neomorphs apparently look a lot like the Deacon.
That new poster alone is better than the entirety of Prometheus!
Quote from: irn on Mar 23, 2017, 05:33:23 PM
That new poster alone is better than the entirety of Prometheus!
You are too harsh! :)
Loving the poster. Really glad to see the inclusion of the Queen Alien in there. Although I wouldn't have minded seeing the Newborn and Predalien in there somewhere.
Quote from: genocyber on Mar 23, 2017, 05:37:38 PM
Loving the poster. Really glad to see the inclusion of the Queen Alien in there. Although I wouldn't have minded seeing the Newborn and Predalien in there somewhere.
No. That would have been too much. ;D
Quote from: genocyber on Mar 23, 2017, 05:37:38 PM
Loving the poster. Really glad to see the inclusion of the Queen Alien in there. Although I wouldn't have minded seeing the Newborn and Predalien in there somewhere.
Why is everyone saying there's a queen?! There is no queen. The top looks similar to the queen's head, but it's probably just pure coincidence or a little easter egg.
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 23, 2017, 05:40:09 PM
Quote from: genocyber on Mar 23, 2017, 05:37:38 PM
Loving the poster. Really glad to see the inclusion of the Queen Alien in there. Although I wouldn't have minded seeing the Newborn and Predalien in there somewhere.
Why is everyone saying there's a queen?! There is no queen. The top looks similar to the queen's head, but it's probably just pure coincidence or a little easter egg.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdata.whicdn.com%2Fimages%2F139878708%2Flarge.jpg&hash=69809380976d60ffac153992032dec10ef2d7eb4)
When and where can I buy? Seriously, this is so cool.
That's probably the most interesting poster I've seen for any movie in sometime. I like that Fox took a chance with an image that makes the movie look very bleak.
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 23, 2017, 05:40:09 PM
Quote from: genocyber on Mar 23, 2017, 05:37:38 PM
Loving the poster. Really glad to see the inclusion of the Queen Alien in there. Although I wouldn't have minded seeing the Newborn and Predalien in there somewhere.
Why is everyone saying there's a queen?! There is no queen. The top looks similar to the queen's head, but it's probably just pure coincidence or a little easter egg.
I'm with you. The same kinda thing was used in the Prometheus mural as well. Eluding but not fully there.
But I'd just rather not see the queen at all. Hell, I would like eggmorphing to make a comeback because I find it far more sci-fi/body horror/terrifying than the Cameron idea of the Queen system.
An express elevator to hell.... Going down!!!!! 8)
I like the queen but hopefully they try to incorporate egg morphing as well. I feel like it would be a very interesting topic to explore in this movie.
Quote from: Jonny B on Mar 23, 2017, 04:09:32 PMAwesome smartphone wallpaper
Dude... That is a
good call.
Sorry, had to do it. Anyways, loving the new poster.
http://imgur.com/Ph0dQRr
Neat has a sisteen chapel quality to it
Female engineer spotted.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alien-covenant.com%2Faliencovenant_uploads%2FIMG_20170323_09504912.jpg&hash=1c614e785a788924441d02209e6e13f77be9aa36)
Quote from: genocyber on Mar 23, 2017, 05:37:38 PM
Loving the poster. Really glad to see the inclusion of the Queen Alien in there. Although I wouldn't have minded seeing the Newborn and Predalien in there somewhere.
Good grief
Badass. I can't wait for someone to analyze the whole thing.
Can't wait for this poster to go on sale ;D
Anyone noticed a trilobite on the poster?
And yes, I m now quite sure its a set piece!
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Mar 23, 2017, 06:55:03 PM
Female engineer spotted.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alien-covenant.com%2Faliencovenant_uploads%2FIMG_20170323_09504912.jpg&hash=1c614e785a788924441d02209e6e13f77be9aa36)
Nah, that's just a beefed up Engineer guy.
I'll differ about this one. It's great but I don't think this is (or should be) in the movie as such, since it doesn't fit in-universe stylistically speaking with what we've seen up to now.
Loving the variation of Alien heads mixed in there. The ones off to the right with the huge mouths and sharp teeth remind me of this cover:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette2.wikia.nocookie.net%2Favp%2Fimages%2F9%2F9c%2FAlien31.jpg%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20101229224912&hash=d4e360c05ffc49a95934990441b87290d80e158f)
(https://mattsko.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/angel-st-michael.jpg)
Another similar work. :)
Quote from: Ulfer on Mar 23, 2017, 08:15:46 PM
I'll differ about this one. It's great but I don't think this is (or should be) in the movie as such, since it doesn't fit in-universe stylistically speaking with what we've seen up to now.
In my opinion it quite fits with the Engineer way of depicting things.
You should recheck Prometheus, my friend. This is going to be in the movie, with all due respect. ;D
Now we're cooking. Freaking sucks to be late to the game because there's too many reply's to read up on. However the trilobite is clearly present in that image and the alien clearly look to be the ones in charge!
Am I the only one who sees a face, a pair of eyes to be more specific, where everybody else assumes there's a queen's crest?
Really loving this. Looks grand and twisted at the same time.
Quote from: Beardomorph on Mar 23, 2017, 08:32:59 PM
Am I the only one who sees a face, a pair of eyes to be more specific, where everybody else assumes there's a queen's crest?
Yea, I think without question it's meant to look like a face. The Prometheus mural was full of faces.
Space Jockey anyone? It sure does look like a long nose there.... eh?
Now THAT is a movie poster!
Quote from: Enoch on Mar 23, 2017, 03:14:51 PM
Quote from: FreeFacehugz on Mar 23, 2017, 03:12:32 PM
Would also disprove the "david created the xenos" theory.
He's just recreating.
That is already disproved!
100% I dont know why people think its David...
Because it is. :)
I always got the impression Ridley Scott wasn't that keen on the Alien Queen concept that James Cameron added to the saga. I guess he's 'embracing' it now. I hope they retain the Engineer Mythos Scott was creating in Prometheus, and that it isn't being dumped to just go down the 'Alien' route in future movies; that'd feel like a bit of a sell out.
Damn that is a fantastic poster.
The top almost looks like the face of the Space Jockey to me.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FVEPKrCX.jpg&hash=0daf9d41cae663bb92470af66acecbaac08dc0b4)
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 23, 2017, 08:42:32 PM
The top almost looks like the face of the Space Jockey to me.
http://i.imgur.com/VEPKrCX.jpg
I don't know what it is, but I do know its not a coincidence that it looks like the queens crest, its just far too similar.
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tattoostime.com%2Fimages%2F346%2Fdark-alien-queen-tattoo-design.jpg&hash=6285187d652901c602e83efecc4b9d19a8c86ea2)
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/23032017_01-472x700.jpg)
orgy of violence
Quote from: Enoch on Mar 23, 2017, 08:44:16 PM
Quote from: Predaker on Mar 23, 2017, 08:37:24 PM
Because it is. :)
No. No. No. ;D
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQgjP1yRULEZASaem7jqqQ9Xlqdyflw4EUzmi-usS6mc3sOv5T3ug)
CANON! :laugh:
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 23, 2017, 01:39:19 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10003/AlienCovenant.jpg)
Much bigger resolution poster.
No matter what you tell me but thats a queen on top.
Quote from: 426Buddy on Mar 23, 2017, 08:45:44 PM
but I do know its not a coincidence that it looks like the queens crest, its just far too similar.
Because it looks like it doesn't mean that it is... Ridley Scott has never really embraced the idea of the Queen alien... but maybe he's coming up with his own version of a biomechanical creature that gives birth to the aliens? It looks like a Queen alien's crest BUT if you look at the poster it implies that whatever creature has that for a "head" also has various "body parts" that we've never seen on a Queen.
Spoiler
Mutated Shaw maybe?
Quote from: Infected on Mar 23, 2017, 08:57:08 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 23, 2017, 01:39:19 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10003/AlienCovenant.jpg)
Much bigger resolution poster.
No matter what you tell me but thats a queen on top.
The Deacon mural in Prometheus sparked this same debate because this design appears above the Deacon in that too. I think this is just the same design repeated here, not a queen.
I really don't think it's a queen. I see the similarities, but if they intended for it to be a queen, they would have made it more apparent.
On the top of the poster, looks like Alien King's head. ;)
Quote from: shawsbaby on Mar 23, 2017, 09:01:19 PM
Quote from: Infected on Mar 23, 2017, 08:57:08 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 23, 2017, 01:39:19 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10003/AlienCovenant.jpg)
Much bigger resolution poster.
No matter what you tell me but thats a queen on top.
The Deacon mural in Prometheus sparked this same debate because this design appears above the Deacon in that too. I think this is just the same design repeated here, not a queen.
Yep, because that was debateable, this isnt.
Its a queen!!
I wouldn't be surprised if the design was meant to evoke but not directly depict the queen.
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 23, 2017, 09:04:50 PM
I really don't think it's a queen. I see the similarities, but if they intended for it to be a queen, they would have made it more apparent.
Wouldnt that take away the surprise element of the movie?
Quote from: Infected on Mar 23, 2017, 09:10:46 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 23, 2017, 09:04:50 PM
I really don't think it's a queen. I see the similarities, but if they intended for it to be a queen, they would have made it more apparent.
Wouldnt that take away the surprise element of the movie?
Yeah, but only if there was actually a queen in the movie. But there isn't. :)
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 23, 2017, 09:12:25 PM
Quote from: Infected on Mar 23, 2017, 09:10:46 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 23, 2017, 09:04:50 PM
I really don't think it's a queen. I see the similarities, but if they intended for it to be a queen, they would have made it more apparent.
Wouldnt that take away the surprise element of the movie?
Yeah, but only if there was actually a queen in the movie. But there isn't. :)
Lucky you that you already have seen the movie.
Considering that Ridley isn't ready to let go of Alien³ I think it's safe to assume he will integrate a Queen into his version of Alien as well.
Quote from: Infected on Mar 23, 2017, 09:22:55 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 23, 2017, 09:12:25 PM
Quote from: Infected on Mar 23, 2017, 09:10:46 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 23, 2017, 09:04:50 PM
I really don't think it's a queen. I see the similarities, but if they intended for it to be a queen, they would have made it more apparent.
Wouldnt that take away the surprise element of the movie?
Yeah, but only if there was actually a queen in the movie. But there isn't. :)
Lucky you that you already have seen the movie.
Yeah, I really enjoyed it!
But seriously, the leaks are true. Sadly. At least, I think!
It will be interesting if something to this does show up in the film-perhaps as a mural within the Citadel which appears to be a prominent set piece If so, Coupled with the mural in Prometheus and it's clear the progenitor of the xenomorph and it's life cycle has been know to the Engineers for a long time. There's also an apparent "struggle" between the two that IMO has some sort of cultural or even religious significance
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 23, 2017, 09:29:01 PM
Quote from: Infected on Mar 23, 2017, 09:22:55 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 23, 2017, 09:12:25 PM
Quote from: Infected on Mar 23, 2017, 09:10:46 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 23, 2017, 09:04:50 PM
I really don't think it's a queen. I see the similarities, but if they intended for it to be a queen, they would have made it more apparent.
Wouldnt that take away the surprise element of the movie?
Yeah, but only if there was actually a queen in the movie. But there isn't. :)
Lucky you that you already have seen the movie.
Yeah, I really enjoyed it!
But seriously, the leaks are true. Sadly.
Nice, how did David created those eggs?
Quote from: Infected on Mar 23, 2017, 09:31:03 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 23, 2017, 09:29:01 PM
Quote from: Infected on Mar 23, 2017, 09:22:55 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 23, 2017, 09:12:25 PM
Quote from: Infected on Mar 23, 2017, 09:10:46 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 23, 2017, 09:04:50 PM
I really don't think it's a queen. I see the similarities, but if they intended for it to be a queen, they would have made it more apparent.
Wouldnt that take away the surprise element of the movie?
Yeah, but only if there was actually a queen in the movie. But there isn't. :)
Lucky you that you already have seen the movie.
Yeah, I really enjoyed it!
But seriously, the leaks are true. Sadly.
Nice, how did David created those eggs?
Very carefully. ;D
Best one, so far. Was kind of hoping of a subtle variation of the more symbolic, unused piece from 'Alien', though.
But, no, this doesn't need to have been physical. It could very easily have been made with CGI (especially with only one type of a surface material being required). I've actually been doing some of these for my own CGI fan-film project.
In regards to Queen symbolism, there isn't just a crest. The two adults in the top right corner have been given very Queen-like mouths.
I hope this is later used as the Blu-ray cover. Or one of those holographic slipcovers for one of the editions. Or better yet, an embossed slipcase sort of thing.
Did Ridley Scott ever comment on Cameron's Alien Queen? I can find bits about why the egg-morphing scene in Alien was originally removed, but nothing about Scott giving his opinion about the Queen as the egg-layer. ???
I just don't see Ridley actually having a Queen in Covenant... a new horrific Giger-esque creation, yes, I can see that happen, but a Queen... I'm doubtful.
Quote from: Beardomorph on Mar 23, 2017, 09:40:23 PM
Did Ridley Scott ever comment on Cameron's Alien Queen? I can find bits about why the egg-morphing scene in Alien was originally removed, but nothing about Scott giving his opinion about the Queen as the egg-layer. ???
I just don't see Ridley actually having a Queen in Covenant... a new horrific Giger-esque creation, yes, I can see that happen, but a Queen... I'm doubtful.
Ridley liked it.
Quote from: Valaquen on Mar 19, 2017, 09:21:37 PM
He says in the Aliens: Illustrated Screenplay (interview with Paul M. Sammon) that the Queen was a "very good idea" and that he liked it.
A queen or something similar definitely seems prominent in this poster. Not sure what that means for Covenant though. I still think that's Shaw's ultimate fate-either implied or explicitly stated.
I love that it's so classy... fears of the 'teen slasher film in space' just went right out the window! :D
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Mar 23, 2017, 09:45:21 PM
Quote from: Valaquen on Mar 19, 2017, 09:21:37 PM
He says in the Aliens: Illustrated Screenplay (interview with Paul M. Sammon) that the Queen was a "very good idea" and that he liked it.
Cool. Thanks for that!
Beautiful nightmare!
Quote from: Stolen on Mar 23, 2017, 02:51:04 PM
Best poster of the entire franchise seriously.
This 100%. I really like the literary themes that Ridley Scott is adding to this series. This poster illustrates this to a T. He's clearly having fun with returning to the franchise, and we're so lucky it didn't fall into the hands of some no-name studio hack.
The poster, viral stuff, and trailers have been top notch. I wouldn't be surprised if this pulls in about $600M worldwide like The Martian did.
wow, nice
f**k that looks good.
I think there is a LOT that we don't know about in regards to this movie .........
I just love HOW MUCH there is going on in this poster. They really just went for it. It's wonderful.
Also, the focus on Engineers in the image instead of human characters from the film is very promising to me. Perhaps
Spoiler
they've integrated even more of the Engineers in the final cut than initial screenings have let on.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7nWTVrXwAAloRv.jpg)
Predalien ::)
I'm not saying that this means there is a queen in the film, im confident there won't be. But its undeniable that the crest on the poster is intended to look like that of an alien queen.
Love this poster, need it on my wall
I assume this is the final one sheet, right? I hope it is.
Holy. Shit. :o Hyped. 8)
Quote Well, here's a cool little piece of trivia: the poster itself seems to be based on Auguste Rodin's monumental sculptural group work, The Gates Of Hell, which is based in part on the first section of Dante Alighieri's The Inferno.
It looks like this:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs3.birthmoviesdeath.com%2Fimages%2Fmade%2FRodin_1200_1800_81_s.jpg&hash=de308422c8726e7c22ca61f57e39f348c2182c9c)
Quote According to Wikipedia, the sculpture was commissioned in 1880, only to be worked on by Rodin on-and-off for the next 37 years (right up until Rodin's death, as a matter of fact). It's comprised of a number of smaller sculptures, each with their own names, and many of them are meant to represent elements from The Inferno (for instance, "Ugolino and His Children depicts Ugolino della Gherardesca, who according to the story, ate the corpses of his children after they died by starvation [Dante, Inferno, Canto XXXIII]...).
Given that tagline ("The path to paradise begins in hell"), the undeniable visual similarities, and the obvious thematic parallels, we give it pretty good odds that Rodin's The Gates of Hell served as the inspiration for this morning's brilliant Alien: Covenant one-sheet. Head on over to Wikipedia to read more about Rodin's piece (and to see a number of freaky close-up shots).
http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2017/03/23/check-out-the-100-year-old-inspiration-for-that-new-alien-covenant-poster (http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2017/03/23/check-out-the-100-year-old-inspiration-for-that-new-alien-covenant-poster)
WOW! :o
Textless Poster!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7nSpsCW0AQpDLP.jpg)
What do y'all think? Are there all protomorphs or a variety of Xenos? Love that the trilobite is in there too, choking out the Engineer.
Very cool poster! But I wonder how much influence does Ridley have on these posters? Does he come up with the idea, or approve them at all? Could it be that marketing is going in a direction not really related to the content of the actual film?
Best poster in the Alien series. Period.
One could study that poster for hours.
It's definitely a Queens head and those two to the top right are Queen jaw/mouth shapes. That said this might not necessarily mean there is a Queen in the film. Perhaps this is a mural depicting the fate of the Engineers on Paradise that happened eons ago.
I didn't like fleshy heads and bodies when ADI did it and I'm not changing that stance just because it's Ridley Scott doing it.
But that's a nice poster.
You know, I wonder, what if that is just what the engineers thought the devil looked like. Like how the devil is a goat man with horns for many people here. It was just something they thought of and David decided to go ahead and "make" it? It's art, that's now alive.
^Interesting possibility. My take is that maybe the xenos were punishment on the rebel Engineers by their god. It fits with the whole Paradise Lost/fallen angels angle.
This could the Engineers' mythology come to life.
Beautiful poster. Really like the queens crest at the top. It almost appears to be a queens crest leading into the space jockey's face, with a Jockey's eyehole and trunk-like nose appearing to merge from the crest. The alien is also interesting. Very fleshy with pronounced shoulders and musculature. This is some great work here.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Mar 24, 2017, 01:46:15 AM
^Interesting possibility. My take is that maybe the xenos were punishment on the rebel Engineers by their god. It fits with the whole Paradise Lost/fallen angels angle.
+1
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Mar 23, 2017, 11:46:02 PM
Quote Well, here's a cool little piece of trivia: the poster itself seems to be based on Auguste Rodin's monumental sculptural group work, The Gates Of Hell, which is based in part on the first section of Dante Alighieri's The Inferno.
It looks like this:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs3.birthmoviesdeath.com%2Fimages%2Fmade%2FRodin_1200_1800_81_s.jpg&hash=de308422c8726e7c22ca61f57e39f348c2182c9c)
I wrote about Rodin and his sculptures several months ago. Wrote about his influence on Alien Covenant massacre scene and now everyone are copying that... ;D
Quote from: newagescamartist on Mar 24, 2017, 12:38:23 AM
Best poster in the Alien series. Period.
Agreed. And when we're already seeing some 'Best of's' that is a great sign. Say what you want of ALIEN 3, it did include some BEST OF's, like the score and the camera work - I think we may get some more Best Of's out of Covenant.
Actually Prometheus did have the Best trailer, but that the exception proving the rule. Ha.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Mar 24, 2017, 01:46:15 AM
^Interesting possibility. My take is that maybe the xenos were punishment on the rebel Engineers by their god. It fits with the whole Paradise Lost/fallen angels angle.
I prefer to think that this implies the Aliens, themselves, are regarded as a form of 'fallen angels': Beautiful to behold, yet unholy.
Possibly.
Is Ron Shussette still alive? Considering one of his and O'Bannon's desires was to keep it unpretentious it'd be interesting to hear what he thinks of all this.
Hey is that the orgy scene from Alien: Resurrection?
Looks like it. Huh.
Already been done lol, try harder Ridley.
This definitely reminds me of an illustration from G. Dore's illustrated version of John Milton's Paradise Lost:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/c7/98/13/c79813eadfddac2a0a514b93c632d4b7.jpg
Quote from: SiL on Mar 24, 2017, 01:43:52 AM
I didn't like fleshy heads and bodies when ADI did it and I'm not changing that stance just because it's Ridley Scott doing it.
But that's a nice poster.
Yes the poster is one damn cool piece of art regardless it's based on old paintings, but definitely not going for Giger's classic humanoid-like alien is the greatest let down for now taking into account Scott is back on it, and as such then there's no reason to think that the full biomech alien we are supposed to be seeing in the next film will either look, move or behave like the first one, not to mention it will probably move on its fours around. Too bad if so
If there was something that made the alien so scary and mysteriously disturbing was, precisely, that It was like a human, sort of aberration of it turned into a weapon, indestructible perfect machine powered by acid, yet somewhat alive and mirroring its original host personality wise (Lambert's nightmarish last moments). Not only the perfect bioweapon of mass annhilation, but also of absolute terror to the eyes of the unlucky targeted species for eradication, given that in the end you're going to get killed by something that is somewhat terrfying similar to you, basically a structurally perfected modification of yourself, but also nasty of personality as long as you were the same in life.
On a side note, somebody said there's a trilobte in the poster submitting one of those engineers. Can't spot it tbh. Where is it?. Yeah it would be cool to see it again and so later see some deacons owning them engineers around, and in an adult form. The adult deacon should be one damn scary monster too.
Nevertheless, I though the engineers there had been wiped out by, first a good part of them by direct black goo infection, and the rest owned by Neomorphs, because David still isn't supposed to have finished the pro-alien we see in the trailer
Well shitballs that's a cool poster.
Why is no-one talking about the creature in the darkness on the right... looks like a different xeno to me.
I'm assuming this poster's content is not in the film, however the top left does look a bit more "real" so I do wonder if we will see some hive envrioment.
I think what made the original xeno in Alien so frightening was not that it was humanoid, but how Scott shot/edited it... it was difficult to work out what it looked like (until the last 5-10 mins where it became more like a man in a suit). The illusion of something is often much more terrifying than seeing all the detail. I would have hoped Scott would have returned to that 'less is more' approach, but I think this is going to be more like Aliens...
Aliens did a better job of hiding the men in suit appearance throughout the length of the film than the first one did.
Quote from: SiL on Mar 24, 2017, 08:07:32 AM
Aliens did a better job of hiding the men in suit appearance throughout the length of the film than the first one did.
Yeah, but they're not scary because they behave like giant bugs.
They were terrifying. A single Alien wasn't much to worry about, and that's understandably upsetting to a lot of people. But Cameron at least made the swarm one of the scariest things the franchise ever produced. The build-up to the Operations firefight is the single most suspenseful scene in the whole franchise.
Quote from: SiL on Mar 24, 2017, 08:16:55 AM
They were terrifying. A single Alien wasn't much to worry about, and that's understandably upsetting to a lot of people. But Cameron at least made the swarm one of the scariest things the franchise ever produced. The build-up to the Operations firefight is the single most suspenseful scene in the whole franchise.
Xeno in
Alien is much more terrifying than Xenos in
Aliens. And I'm not upset about your opinion.
Quote from: SiL on Mar 24, 2017, 08:16:55 AM
They were terrifying. A single Alien wasn't much to worry about, and that's understandably upsetting to a lot of people. But Cameron at least made the swarm one of the scariest things the franchise ever produced. The build-up to the Operations firefight is the single most suspenseful scene in the whole franchise.
In my opinion they weren't nearly as scary as the Xeno in Alien. They're too much like insects.
Quote from: SiL on Mar 24, 2017, 08:07:32 AM
Aliens did a better job of hiding the men in suit appearance throughout the length of the film than the first one did.
I think the costumes in Aliens were superior, but I think Aliens also worked to make them appear far more humanoid and less alien like.
I gotta say the effect is much different, when you face one threat who is smart and cunning, and not sure where its hiding,
It becomes more intense.
When you face a hive or many, you only have one thing on your mind and thats run!
Its like multiplayer online, when playing deathmatch its just fun and you do as much as you can, but if you do 1 vs 1 online,
All of a sudden it becomes sweaty and intens.
So i think the approach is important, but a filmmaker knows this, its the same as what i said with the rolling juggernaut and Vickers,
the filmmaker decides whats he wants, and Cameron wanted guns, Ridley wanted survival drama suspension.
Quote from: SiL on Mar 24, 2017, 08:16:55 AM
They were terrifying. A single Alien wasn't much to worry about, and that's understandably upsetting to a lot of people. But Cameron at least made the swarm one of the scariest things the franchise ever produced. The build-up to the Operations firefight is the single most suspenseful scene in the whole franchise.
I'd disagree with that. I think the single, most suspenful, scene involving a xeno (sans the original chest burster) was Dallas in the air vents. That's a masterclass in building suspense/peril through sound, lighting, music and editing. The opening couple of minutes of the operations firefight in Aliens comes close, but (in my humble opinion) just descends into an action scene, which whilst exciting/entertaining, undermines the overall suspense of it.
Quote from: Infected on Mar 24, 2017, 09:06:03 AM
I gotta say the effect is much different, when you face one threat who is smart and cunning, and not sure where its hiding,
It becomes more intense.
When you face a hive or many, you only have one thing on your mind and thats run!
Its like multiplayer online, when playing deathmatch its just fun and you do as much as you can, but if you do 1 vs 1 online,
All of a sudden it becomes sweaty and intens.
So i think the approach is important, but a filmmaker knows this, its the same as what i said with the rolling juggernaut and Vickers,
the filmmaker decides whats he wants, and Cameron wanted guns, Ridley wanted survival drama suspension.
Very true. It's difficult to compare as, like you say, both Scott and Cameron were going for different things. Alien was much more horror/suspense, whilst Aliens was action. In a lot of ways, at the time, I thought Aliens was much closer (in spirit) to Raiders of the Lost Ark than it was Alien... as it was a rollercoaster ride with action/big set pieces.
Quote from: Darth Vile on Mar 24, 2017, 08:59:21 AM
Quote from: SiL on Mar 24, 2017, 08:07:32 AM
Aliens did a better job of hiding the men in suit appearance throughout the length of the film than the first one did.
I think the costumes in Aliens were superior, but I think Aliens also worked to make them appear far more humanoid and less alien like.
They're less obviously human in
Aliens. The dummies had longer limbs, they had stretched out hands, their feet had extra toes.
Dallas in the vents and Lambert and Parker's deaths are both the most dread inducing and horrifying moments in the entire franchise for me.
The darkness of Alien hid a lot of flaws it had in the suit. The movements were extremely stiff, the hands were very floppy and looked unfinished in design. The tail was hidden and the brief moments you saw of it looked very slow and artificial. The suits and effects were improved greatly in Aliens making the suit actors to give a more versatile performance, and the technology allowing for more fluid movements of the tail and mouth.
Quote from: Necronomicon II on Mar 24, 2017, 09:31:40 AM
Dallas in the vents and Lambert and Parker's deaths are both the most dread inducing and horrifying moments in the entire franchise for me.
Dread and horrifying, yeah. I just mean pure edge of your seat tension. Dallas would be the close second for me. Lambert and Parker up top for dread.
To be fair. If Dallas or Brett or Parker had a Pulse Rifle at the point of their deaths they would have Destroyed the Xeno in the first movie.
It was the scenario that made Big chap so terrifying.
Quote from: SiL on Mar 24, 2017, 09:24:55 AM
Quote from: Darth Vile on Mar 24, 2017, 08:59:21 AM
Quote from: SiL on Mar 24, 2017, 08:07:32 AM
Aliens did a better job of hiding the men in suit appearance throughout the length of the film than the first one did.
I think the costumes in Aliens were superior, but I think Aliens also worked to make them appear far more humanoid and less alien like.
They're less obviously human in Aliens. The dummies had longer limbs, they had stretched out hands, their feet had extra toes.
I don't really agree, other than what i said about the last 5/10 mins of Alien, where Scott gives the game away a little (constrained by what he most show to see the alien blown out of the airlock). More sophisticated costumes in Alien yes. More sophisticated animatronics in Aliens yes... but also more obviously actors in costumes for more shots in my opinion. For example, if you take Brett, Parker and Lambert's death scenes, it's far less obvious that it's an actor in a costume than most of the death scenes in Aliens. Scott's version of the Alien is much more abstract and impressionistic than Cameron's (which is also reflective of their styles as filmmakers).
Quote from: Russ840 on Mar 24, 2017, 09:48:25 AM
To be fair. If Dallas or Brett or Parker had a Pulse tifle at the point of their deaths they would have Destroyed the Xeno in the first.
It was the scenario that made Big chap so terrifying.
Parker, maybe. Dallas perhaps not. He already had a weapon and was taken by surprise.
Quote from: genocyber on Mar 24, 2017, 09:45:10 AM
The darkness of Alien hid a lot of flaws it had in the suit. The movements were extremely stiff, the hands were very floppy and looked unfinished in design. The tail was hidden and the brief moments you saw of it looked very slow and artificial. The suits and effects were improved greatly in Aliens making the suit actors to give a more versatile performance, and the technology allowing for more fluid movements of the tail and mouth.
But that's what separates art from just entertainment. The costumes in Alien Resurrection and AVP are technically better than what was in Alien (and Aliens TBH). But which has the biggest impact? The animatronic sharks in Deep Blue Sea are much more sophisticated than the one used in Jaws. But which film depicts the shark in a much more suspenseful/dramatic way? It's not about which costume is 'better' but rather how the filmmaker shoots it.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 24, 2017, 09:54:19 AM
Quote from: Russ840 on Mar 24, 2017, 09:48:25 AM
To be fair. If Dallas or Brett or Parker had a Pulse tifle at the point of their deaths they would have Destroyed the Xeno in the first.
It was the scenario that made Big chap so terrifying.
Parker, maybe. Dallas perhaps not. He already had a weapon and was taken by surprise.
I suppose. I guess my point is that, really, the Alien is not as indestructible as people believe and people that think that Cameron relegated the Xeno's to bugs and cannon fodder are being a little unfair. The first movie has a group of average Joes with not much real fire power, floating through space restricted with their options to take Big Cap out.
The second movie has well trained soldiers well armed on a planet with atmosphere, no vacuum around them.
I mean. Big chap jumps straight in between Parker and lambert for the kill. If one of those two were a well trained marine with a gun Big Chap would have been slaughtered. Then perhaps that could have been seen as Bug like/cannon fodder.
Damn what the heck are we debating here. The awesomeness of the new Alien: Covenant poster or how equally awesome and intense both Alien and Aliens is? I mean good god folks. Both movies are the stuff of cinematic gold.
Personally I'd rather concentrate on the pure awesomeness of the poster. There's a lot of stuff happening in it. All the aliens are a little bit different and there seems to be some rather large one in there too.
I can't see any of the details on the poster being in the movie. I think it's more likely that it's just artistic and symbolic.
Quote from: echobbase79 on Mar 23, 2017, 11:32:15 PM
I assume this is the final one sheet, right? I hope it is.
Typically the final posters have the credits at the bottom.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Focuk.filmsuk.com%2Fmural2.jpg&hash=829897897a7124bb570877cc8f4e5bedd13bd413)
Its starting to clear. In Prometheus, one of the major themes is about creation. David is the synthetic. In the mural above, we see an Engineer subjugating another Alien race. I believe the Engineers rebelled against their Creators (the Ancient Ones). In the new poster, we see the Xenos at the top overcoming the Engineers. Looks like the Xenos are the Angels of Light. They represent the Will of the Ancient Ones. Deacon ended up turning into a living Mountain in Fire and Stone which leads to believe the purpose of the Xenomorph is to terraform planets but for who? I believe they're doing it awaiting their Masters' return.
The Xenomorphs are the ultimate punishment for those transgressing the laws of creation.
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 23, 2017, 08:42:32 PM
The top almost looks like the face of the Space Jockey to me.
http://i.imgur.com/VEPKrCX.jpg
thinking the same thing, space jockeys are the real xeno masters - engineers stole that proverbial "fire"
Fan bait poster and even knowing what it is, it's still got me hook, line and sinker.
Quote from: Russ840 on Mar 24, 2017, 10:03:06 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 24, 2017, 09:54:19 AM
Quote from: Russ840 on Mar 24, 2017, 09:48:25 AM
To be fair. If Dallas or Brett or Parker had a Pulse tifle at the point of their deaths they would have Destroyed the Xeno in the first.
It was the scenario that made Big chap so terrifying.
Parker, maybe. Dallas perhaps not. He already had a weapon and was taken by surprise.
I suppose. I guess my point is that, really, the Alien is not as indestructible as people believe and people that think that Cameron relegated the Xeno's to bugs and cannon fodder are being a little unfair. The first movie has a group of average Joes with not much real fire power, floating through space restricted with their options to take Big Cap out.
The second movie has well trained soldiers well armed on a planet with atmosphere, no vacuum around them.
I mean. Big chap jumps straight in between Parker and lambert for the kill. If one of those two were a well trained marine with a gun Big Chap would have been slaughtered. Then perhaps that could have been seen as Bug like/cannon fodder.
The problem with the argument about access to military weaponry, as a way of getting around the inconsistency between Big Chap and the Warriors. Is that people conveniently forget about the climax to ALIEN. Where Big Chap is exposed to the vacuum of space. Shot with a grappling hook and then blasted with the engines of the Narcissus, but still appears to be living as he floats off into the void. Surely, being blasted by a spaceships engines, would be every bit as devastating as being shot with a pulse rifle and yet Big Chap is resistant to it. I would also make a strong argument that he's resistant to fire as well. After all, it's Ash that makes the suggestion to use fire against him. If Ash thought fire could actually harm Big Chap, why would he recommend it's use, when he's programmed to protect it?
No, I'm sorry ALIENS fans, you have to accept the Warriors are pussies next to Big Chap and they need their mommy to protect them. Big Chap makes the built like a brick shithouse Parker, look like he's just jumped into a steel vice. Warrior gets beaten up by a girl in an air vent. ;) :P
Quote from: Dangerous Days on Mar 24, 2017, 11:53:16 AM
Fan bait poster and even knowing what it is, it's still got me hook, line and sinker.
Quote from: Russ840 on Mar 24, 2017, 10:03:06 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 24, 2017, 09:54:19 AM
Quote from: Russ840 on Mar 24, 2017, 09:48:25 AM
To be fair. If Dallas or Brett or Parker had a Pulse tifle at the point of their deaths they would have Destroyed the Xeno in the first.
It was the scenario that made Big chap so terrifying.
Parker, maybe. Dallas perhaps not. He already had a weapon and was taken by surprise.
I suppose. I guess my point is that, really, the Alien is not as indestructible as people believe and people that think that Cameron relegated the Xeno's to bugs and cannon fodder are being a little unfair. The first movie has a group of average Joes with not much real fire power, floating through space restricted with their options to take Big Cap out.
The second movie has well trained soldiers well armed on a planet with atmosphere, no vacuum around them.
I mean. Big chap jumps straight in between Parker and lambert for the kill. If one of those two were a well trained marine with a gun Big Chap would have been slaughtered. Then perhaps that could have been seen as Bug like/cannon fodder.
The problem with the argument about access to military weaponry, as a way of getting around the inconsistency between Big Chap and the Warriors. Is that people conveniently forget about the climax to ALIEN. Where Big Chap is exposed to the vacuum of space. Shot with a grappling hook and then blasted with the engines of the Narcissus, but still appears to be living as he floats off into the void. Surely, being blasted by a spaceships engines, would be every bit as devastating as being shot with a pulse rifle and yet Big Chap is resistant to it. I would also make a strong argument that he's resistant to fire as well. After all, it's Ash that makes the suggestion to use fire against him. If Ash thought fire could actually harm Big Chap, why would he recommend it's use, when he's programmed to protect it?
No, I'm sorry ALIENS fans, you have to accept the Warriors are pussies next to Big Chap and they need their mommy to protect them. Big Chap makes the built like a brick shithouse Parker, look like he's just jumped into a steel vice. Warrior gets beaten up by a girl in an air vent. ;) :P
yep. They keep to forget Cameron not only turned the alien into a species and downgraded the creature to a space insect, but also made it destructible.
I guess the point here are the different generations. Elders like I one mister enjoyed the film at a tender age of 16. I loved the first movie and all the mysticism shrouding the creature, and of course the mystery of the Derelict and the Jockey.
The next generation of alien fans love the sequel, and try to override Cameron's lore or what he introduced that affected the alien over the first film, when in fact, the original alien had nothing to do with what it was done after.
One thing I still don't get to this day is the hate for alien3, primarily of course by fans of the sequel as we could not have it any other way. Why the hate?, because there were no marines and guns and killable aliens?. Alien3 was an incredible movie imho, and the last good one btw now that I think about it
Quote from: Dangerous Days on Mar 24, 2017, 11:53:16 AM
Fan bait poster and even knowing what it is, it's still got me hook, line and sinker.
Quote from: Russ840 on Mar 24, 2017, 10:03:06 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 24, 2017, 09:54:19 AM
Quote from: Russ840 on Mar 24, 2017, 09:48:25 AM
To be fair. If Dallas or Brett or Parker had a Pulse tifle at the point of their deaths they would have Destroyed the Xeno in the first.
It was the scenario that made Big chap so terrifying.
Parker, maybe. Dallas perhaps not. He already had a weapon and was taken by surprise.
I suppose. I guess my point is that, really, the Alien is not as indestructible as people believe and people that think that Cameron relegated the Xeno's to bugs and cannon fodder are being a little unfair. The first movie has a group of average Joes with not much real fire power, floating through space restricted with their options to take Big Cap out.
The second movie has well trained soldiers well armed on a planet with atmosphere, no vacuum around them.
I mean. Big chap jumps straight in between Parker and lambert for the kill. If one of those two were a well trained marine with a gun Big Chap would have been slaughtered. Then perhaps that could have been seen as Bug like/cannon fodder.
The problem with the argument about access to military weaponry, as a way of getting around the inconsistency between Big Chap and the Warriors. Is that people conveniently forget about the climax to ALIEN. Where Big Chap is exposed to the vacuum of space. Shot with a grappling hook and then blasted with the engines of the Narcissus, but still appears to be living as he floats off into the void. Surely, being blasted by a spaceships engines, would be every bit as devastating as being shot with a pulse rifle and yet Big Chap is resistant to it. I would also make a strong argument that he's resistant to fire as well. After all, it's Ash that makes the suggestion to use fire against him. If Ash thought fire could actually harm Big Chap, why would he recommend it's use, when he's programmed to protect it?
No, I'm sorry ALIENS fans, you have to accept the Warriors are pussies next to Big Chap and they need their mommy to protect them. Big Chap makes the built like a brick shithouse Parker, look like he's just jumped into a steel vice. Warrior gets beaten up by a girl in an air vent. ;) :P
No sorry dude. If a harpoon gun can pierce him then explosive tipped rounds will have no problem. Plus the engine thrusts are meant to have incinerated him, I believe that was the intent.
Anyway. I don't see it the same way you do so we will agree to disagree.
Quote from: Russ840 on Mar 24, 2017, 12:36:04 PM
No sorry dude. If a harpoon gun can pierce him then explosive tipped rounds will have no problem. Plus the engine thrusts are meant to have incinerated him, I believe that was the intent.
Anyway. I don't see it the same way you do so we will agree to disagree.
Part of my post was meant tongue in cheek.
Although I would point out Big Chap is not incinerated, the blast just knocks him out of the engines.
To be fair, O'Bannon came up with the idea of acid for blood because he thought the idea of an indestructible creature was silly. Although Scott, Hill and Giler clearly had other ideas, hence the perfect organism speech.
But as fans, I think we have to except that there are inconsistency's in the way the Alien is presented from film to film. And trying to jump through hoops, desperately looking for continuity, is not going to resolve the issues.
Totally agree with your last point dude. There will be inconsistencies. I just don't see that the creatures in Aliens are inferior to Big Chap. I just see a different scenario that makes for different dynamics.
I do think we have derailed this thread a little. Lol
indeed some nice high energy plasma bursts and in the vacuum of space, with the creature even struggling to re-enter the ship before giving up to the second burst showing its strength was literally immeasurable, are meant only to incinerate /sarcasm/. Nothing about blowing a body into pieces due to pressure (and in a vacuum).
Imagine some pulse rifle burst on it then. Would simply laugh at them. Managed to blow a limb off just by luck?. No problem. Its regenerates in an instant.
The sequel was one of the greatest suspense movies ever seen with Cameron taking the legacy of the first film (about terror) very seriously. Made the franchise $$$important, but the degradating damage on the creature itself was so notorious, that we all can see how It made it until today. Giger's idea of the Derelict and some other aspect of the creature were totally forgotten, overriden by Cameron's vision about the creature
He even referred more than once to his movie as his version of Starship Troopers. That says it all. Alien Warrior = Cameron's arachnid
ok ok back to the poster I know. Damn cool
Still can't see the trilobite by the way. Could anyone tell me where is it in the image?
Quote from: fernandito on Mar 24, 2017, 01:09:01 PM
indeed some nice high energy plasma bursts and in the vacuum of space, with the creature even struggling to re-enter the ship before giving up to the second burst showing its strength was literally immeasurable, are meant only to incinerate /sarcasm/. Nothing about blowing a body into pieces due to pressure (and in a vacuum).
Imagine some pulse rifle burst on it then. Would simply laugh at them. Managed to blow a limb off just by luck?. No problem. Its regenerates in an instant.
The sequel was one of the greatest suspense movies ever seen with Cameron taking the legacy of the first film (about terror) very seriously. Made the franchise $$$important, but the degradating damage on the creature itself was so notorious, that we all can see how It made it until today. Giger's idea of the Derelict and some other aspect of the creature were totally forgotten, overrided by Cameron's vision about the creature
He even referred more than once to his movie as his version of Starship Troopers. That says it all. Alien Warrior = Cameron's arachnid
ok ok back to the poster I know. Damn cool
Still can't see the trilobite by the way. Could anyone tell me where is it in the image?
Pretty sure you have all that in your first paragraph wrong mate. Also pretty sure it is never shown to "instantly regenerate" But like I said, Agree to disagree.
Sure I'm wrong man. Some nice and consistent 7000º or higher plasma shower for more than twelve seconds is just a joke compared to a couple of pulse rifle burts. This without even considering the creature struggling for reentering the ship while being blasted instead of being blast away the very first second. Sure even a rocket launch on it would be a greater deal than that
Indeed
Regenration skills can be found in the novel, with an act when Ash severes his arm closing a hatch. Prometheus also hints at it directly with the hammerpede
Quote from: fernandito on Mar 24, 2017, 01:20:38 PM
Sure I'm wrong man. Some nice and consistent 7000º or higher plasma shower for more than twelve seconds is just a joke compared to a couple of pulse rifle burts. This without even considering the creature struggling for reentering the ship while being blasted instead of being blast away the very first second. Sure even a rocket launch on it would be a greater deal than that
Indeed
Regenration skills can be found in the novel, with an act when Ash severes his arm closing a hatch. Prometheus also hints at it directly with the hammerpede
The intent was that the alien was incinerated and killed at the end of ALIEN. They couldn't show that in explicit detail because of time, money, technological constraints. But the intention is there, I'm sure plasma engines don't shoot out rain showers either but we know its not rain despite what is shown in the film.
Yeah. And you seem to keep missing the fact that the harpoon gun penetrates him.
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Mar 23, 2017, 09:53:42 PM
I love that it's so classy... fears of the 'teen slasher film in space' just went right out the window! :D
It's gonna take a lot more than a single set piece to make me think that.
Quote from: SiL on Mar 24, 2017, 08:16:55 AM
They were terrifying. A single Alien wasn't much to worry about, and that's understandably upsetting to a lot of people. But Cameron at least made the swarm one of the scariest things the franchise ever produced. The build-up to the Operations firefight is the single most suspenseful scene in the whole franchise.
Cameron made them stupider, and de-powered them greatly. He made it feel more like there power was in number instead of stealth and sheer brutality. The only reason the marines got smoked is because they were unready for the threat/most had checked their good weapons/slightly undermanned. The scene works only once, and a repeat assault by a properly trained team they would have smoked the entire hive. That isn't scary to me.
Funny enough, I think only Alien and Alien Isolation of all things gets the mix of cunning, intelligence and brutality right. That is the Alien I'm interested in.
Does anyone have a 1920x1080 version of the poster guys?. Would be much appreciated. Can't find
Quote from: CainsSon on Mar 24, 2017, 05:17:47 AM
Quote from: newagescamartist on Mar 24, 2017, 12:38:23 AM
Best poster in the Alien series. Period.
Agreed. And when we're already seeing some 'Best of's' that is a great sign. Say what you want of ALIEN 3, it did include some BEST OF's, like the score and the camera work - I think we may get some more Best Of's out of Covenant.
Actually Prometheus did have the Best trailer, but that the exception proving the rule. Ha.
Prometheus was probably the best shot of the entire franchise. It's a brilliant looking movie regardless of the editing choices made. It also had some killer imagery in it (The engineer holograms runner, the pilots chair rising, the armour forming around the engineer, the stack of dead engineers in the tomb,etc). I still kinda prefer Prometheus to Aliens as I like a lot of the ideas. It's a movie I really like when I am sitting and thinking about it and not so much while viewing it. I have to admit Shaw grew on me the last time I watched it.
Quote from: fernandito on Mar 24, 2017, 01:49:01 PM
Does anyone have a 1920x1080 version of the poster guys?. Would be much appreciated. Can't find
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10003/AlienCovenant.jpg
Quote from: fernandito on Mar 24, 2017, 01:09:01 PM
Cameron ... made the franchise $$$important, but the degradating damage on the creature itself was so notorious
Yes, to a tiny fraction of the fan base who willfully choose to ignore certain facts about Alien in favor of their own misinterpretations.
Quote
Still can't see the trilobite by the way. Could anyone tell me where is it in the image?
There is no trilobite.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 24, 2017, 01:52:15 PM
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10003/AlienCovenant.jpg
Much appreciated Evil Dictator. Many thanks. Time to update desktop.
what is this ? i found in Imgur
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FGW8WqC0.png&hash=af57dc2e03eebc88bb17ccaef948dad0c4577e05)
Quote from: Walter on Mar 24, 2017, 01:57:53 PM
what is this ? i found in Imgur
http://i.imgur.com/GW8WqC0.png
Fan made stuff. Looks like
Quote from: fiveways on Mar 24, 2017, 01:34:29 PM
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Mar 23, 2017, 09:53:42 PM
I love that it's so classy... fears of the 'teen slasher film in space' just went right out the window! :D
It's gonna take a lot more than a single set piece to make me think that.
Quote from: SiL on Mar 24, 2017, 08:16:55 AM
They were terrifying. A single Alien wasn't much to worry about, and that's understandably upsetting to a lot of people. But Cameron at least made the swarm one of the scariest things the franchise ever produced. The build-up to the Operations firefight is the single most suspenseful scene in the whole franchise.
Cameron made them stupider, and de-powered them greatly. He made it feel more like there power was in number instead of stealth and sheer brutality. The only reason the marines got smoked is because they were unready for the threat/most had checked their good weapons/slightly undermanned. The scene works only once, and a repeat assault by a properly trained team they would have smoked the entire hive. That isn't scary to me.
Funny enough, I think only Alien and Alien Isolation of all things gets the mix of cunning, intelligence and brutality right. That is the Alien I'm interested in.
I think Aliens did a fine job of showcasing the aliens stealth, brutality, and intelligence. Cameron didn't make them stupid at all - if anything, he made them smarter. As for power in numbers, Kane found "thousands" of eggs, not just one. Ripley made sure to tell the colonial marines (and remind the audience) that "just one of those things" managed to wipe out her entire crew, as well.
Quote from: fernandito on Mar 24, 2017, 01:57:27 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 24, 2017, 01:52:15 PM
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10003/AlienCovenant.jpg
Much appreciated Evil Dictator. Many thanks. Time to update desktop.
No worries.
Quote from: fernandito on Mar 24, 2017, 02:00:40 PM
Quote from: Walter on Mar 24, 2017, 01:57:53 PM
what is this ? i found in Imgur
http://i.imgur.com/GW8WqC0.png
Fan made stuff. Looks like
It's an older fan made piece.
And let's remember to keep it civil please, gentlemen and gentleladies. Thanks. :)
Quote from: Predaker on Mar 24, 2017, 01:55:29 PM
Quote from: fernandito on Mar 24, 2017, 01:09:01 PM
Cameron ... made the franchise $$$important, but the degradating damage on the creature itself was so notorious
Yes, to a tiny fraction of the fan base who willfully choose to ignore certain facts about Alien in favor of their own misinterpretations.
Quote
Still can't see the trilobite by the way. Could anyone tell me where is it in the image?
There is no trilobite.
Looks like a trilobite tentacle resting on the engineer in the middle's neck and torso. If it's not a trilobite, it certainly looks like one.
Quote from: Predaker on Mar 24, 2017, 02:06:41 PM
Quote from: fiveways on Mar 24, 2017, 01:34:29 PM
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Mar 23, 2017, 09:53:42 PM
I love that it's so classy... fears of the 'teen slasher film in space' just went right out the window! :D
It's gonna take a lot more than a single set piece to make me think that.
Quote from: SiL on Mar 24, 2017, 08:16:55 AM
They were terrifying. A single Alien wasn't much to worry about, and that's understandably upsetting to a lot of people. But Cameron at least made the swarm one of the scariest things the franchise ever produced. The build-up to the Operations firefight is the single most suspenseful scene in the whole franchise.
Cameron made them stupider, and de-powered them greatly. He made it feel more like there power was in number instead of stealth and sheer brutality. The only reason the marines got smoked is because they were unready for the threat/most had checked their good weapons/slightly undermanned. The scene works only once, and a repeat assault by a properly trained team they would have smoked the entire hive. That isn't scary to me.
Funny enough, I think only Alien and Alien Isolation of all things gets the mix of cunning, intelligence and brutality right. That is the Alien I'm interested in.
I think Aliens did a fine job of showcasing the aliens stealth, brutality, and intelligence. As for power in numbers, Kane found "thousands" of eggs, not just one. Ripley made sure to tell the colonial marines (and remind the audience) that "just one of those things" managed to wipe out her entire crew, as well.
I think Cameron did a good job, even when we are ready for them and we have the guns, it will cost us a lot and great effort to win it.
When it comes down to close quarters we are greatly outnumbered against them and all of their creations,
Even its one marine fully armed and aware of the xeno approach and power and he would have to face four of them, he could win but most likely if he survives he would be hurt in someway.
Quote from: newagescamartist on Mar 24, 2017, 02:21:11 PM
Quote from: Predaker on Mar 24, 2017, 01:55:29 PM
Quote from: fernandito on Mar 24, 2017, 01:09:01 PM
Cameron ... made the franchise $$$important, but the degradating damage on the creature itself was so notorious
Yes, to a tiny fraction of the fan base who willfully choose to ignore certain facts about Alien in favor of their own misinterpretations.
Quote
Still can't see the trilobite by the way. Could anyone tell me where is it in the image?
There is no trilobite.
Looks like a trilobite tentacle resting on the engineer in the middle's neck and torso. If it's not a trilobite, it certainly looks like one.
Xeno leg, like the one just to the upper left. (You can also see parts of the torso and right arm that go with it.)
Quote from: Walter on Mar 24, 2017, 01:57:53 PM
what is this ? i found in Imgur
http://i.imgur.com/GW8WqC0.png
People said it's an older pic, but I think it looks like Noomi Rapace.
Edit-
In fact the background looks like the oldest Daniels Pic we have
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.scified.com%2Fu%2Fdownload3.jpg&hash=5d04375d163250ae7e84aa007fc8429a66e95108)
I think the one thing people choose to ignore about ALIENS is that the sulaco does not even scan for the possibility of any airborne pathogens or lifeform that may have been responsible for the colony going silent ....
and they all just run in there without any spacesuits or helmets ......
stupid imo
Very true! Well said
Quote from: fiveways on Mar 24, 2017, 01:34:29 PM
Cameron made them stupider, and de-powered them greatly..
They cut off the lights.
That was smarter than anything that the creature did in the first film.
The creature's intelligence in the first film was always ambiguous..
Cameron showed us that it was capable of actual tactical thinking.
Even 1 alien could be stealthy and deadly enough on its own - ex: the Dropship.
Quote from: prometheusfire08 on Mar 24, 2017, 03:39:25 PM
I think the one thing people choose to ignore about ALIENS is that the sulaco does not even scan for the possibility of any airborne pathogens or lifeform that may have been responsible for the colony going silent ....
and they all just run in there without any spacesuits or helmets ......
stupid imo
I like to think it was just released in a time before the internet allowed insufferable armchair scientists to congregate and attempt to outsmart every movie they can.
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 24, 2017, 08:13:43 AM
Yeah, but they're not scary because they behave like giant bugs.
They acted no more and no less like "giant bugs" than the first one did. The only differences in behaviour are purely situational.
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 24, 2017, 08:13:43 AM
Yeah, but they're not scary because they behave like giant bugs.
They acted no more and no less like "giant bugs" thant he first one did - and let's not forget that insects and arachnids were a direct influence on the creature's design/presentation from the very first film:
https://alienseries.wordpress.com/2012/10/18/the-insect-influence/
Quote from: SiL on Mar 24, 2017, 08:16:55 AM
They were terrifying. A single Alien wasn't much to worry about, and that's understandably upsetting to a lot of people. But Cameron at least made the swarm one of the scariest things the franchise ever produced. The build-up to the Operations firefight is the single most suspenseful scene in the whole franchise.
Exactly. The first one demonstrated what a single creature can do with a crew of largely defenceless, untrained people. The sequel simply took it to the next logical conclusion: Gave them a colony they'd already had time to play with and gave a realistic portrayal of modern armed forces going in to investigate.
People keep forgetting how Cameron has Ripley
repeatedly remind other characters (and, therefore, the audience) of how even one creature is nothing to be f**ked around with.
Quote from: Darth Vile on Mar 24, 2017, 09:06:35 AM
I'd disagree with that. I think the single, most suspenful, scene involving a xeno (sans the original chest burster) was Dallas in the air vents.
A scene which was effectively mirrored with Newt's abduction. The latter just had an additional ticking time-bomb effect, that's all (which is a bright way of making it feel different
and better).
It also has the addiitonal benefit of lending some slight character-building layers to it. It's not just a random character who's been taken away. It plays directly into the themes of Ripley's motherhood instinct (which is a lot more logical in the extended edition) and Weaver's reaction is really well played. The visual of Casey's decapitated plastic head slowly sinking into the murk was really haunting, too.
QuoteVery true. It's difficult to compare as, like you say, both Scott and Cameron were going for different things. Alien was much more horror/suspense, whilst Aliens was action. In a lot of ways, at the time, I thought Aliens was much closer (in spirit) to Raiders of the Lost Ark than it was Alien... as it was a rollercoaster ride with action/big set pieces.
'
Aliens' was never solely action. It's action-horror. There are plenty of nightmarish sequences in it. In fact, Ripley's dream, where she almost hatches, arguably has a much better atmosphere than Kane's, yet has no gore, whatsoever. That whole part where the Marines are wandering through the corridors and find nothing more threatening than rotting doughnuts, is
reeking of tension. '
Alien' never had anything even close to the hive scene, either, in its theatrical release (and the deleted scene was certainly not as grand in scale).
Quote from: Enoch on Mar 24, 2017, 11:48:26 AM
The Xenomorphs are the ultimate punishment for those transgressing the laws of creation.
Which laws of creation? And why punish an entire planetary ecosystem?
Let's not forget that insects and arachnids were a direct influence on the creature's design/presentation from the very first film:
https://alienseries.wordpress.com/2012/10/18/the-insect-influence/
Quote from: SiL on Mar 24, 2017, 08:16:55 AM
They were terrifying. A single Alien wasn't much to worry about, and that's understandably upsetting to a lot of people. But Cameron at least made the swarm one of the scariest things the franchise ever produced. The build-up to the Operations firefight is the single most suspenseful scene in the whole franchise.
Exactly so. The first one demonstrated what a single creature can do with a crew of largely defenceless, untrained people. The sequel simply took it to the next logical conclusion: Gave them a colony they'd already had time to play with and gave a realistic portrayal of modern armed forces going in to investigate.
People keep forgetting how Cameron has Ripley (and, later on, Hicks)
repeatedly remind other characters (and, therefore, the audience) of how even one creature is nothing to be f**ked around with.
Quote from: Darth Vile on Mar 24, 2017, 09:06:35 AM
I'd disagree with that. I think the single, most suspenful, scene involving a xeno (sans the original chest burster) was Dallas in the air vents.
A scene which was effectively mirrored with Newt's abduction. The latter just had an additional ticking time-bomb effect, that's all (which is a bright way of making it feel different
and better).
It also has the addiitonal benefit of lending some slight character-building layers to it. It's not just a random character who's been taken away. It plays directly into the themes of Ripley's motherhood instinct (which is a lot more logical in the extended edition) and Weaver's reaction is really well played. The visual of Casey's decapitated plastic head slowly sinking into the murk was really haunting, too.
QuoteVery true. It's difficult to compare as, like you say, both Scott and Cameron were going for different things. Alien was much more horror/suspense, whilst Aliens was action. In a lot of ways, at the time, I thought Aliens was much closer (in spirit) to Raiders of the Lost Ark than it was Alien... as it was a rollercoaster ride with action/big set pieces.
'
Aliens' was never solely action. It's action-horror. There are plenty of nightmarish sequences in it. In fact, Ripley's dream, where she almost hatches, arguably has a much better atmosphere than Kane's, yet has no gore, whatsoever. That whole part where the Marines are wandering through the corridors and find nothing more threatening than rotting doughnuts, is
reeking of tension. '
Alien' never had anything even close to the hive scene, either, in its theatrical release (and the deleted scene was certainly not as grand in scale).
Quote from: Enoch on Mar 24, 2017, 11:48:26 AM
The Xenomorphs are the ultimate punishment for those transgressing the laws of creation.
Which laws of creation? And why punish an entire planetary ecosystem?
Quote from: fiveways on Mar 24, 2017, 01:34:29 PM
Cameron made them stupider, and de-powered them greatly. He made it feel more like there power was in number instead of stealth and sheer brutality.
Incorrect. There are plenty of moments where we're shown the Aliens acting stealthily. Hell, their very first reveal, where they're ominously unfurling in those grotesque close-ups and the Marines had no idea where they're coming from, are easily as iconic as what happened in, say, Brett's demise. Same goes for how Spunkmeyer and Ferro were dealt with. As I wrote above, Newt's abduction is
really evocative fo how the first film's creature had behaved. The thing looms out of the water like some angelic demon. Even the Queen plays around with themes of blasphemy; she's posed like a vampiric Buddha.
There were obvious moments where the creatures were hinted to be
more intelligent, not less, too. Remember how deliebrately ambiguous it was, whether or not they cut the power on purpose or had nested around the reactor cooling system to safeguard their young? And how the Queen is clearly showing curiosity and learnign ability with the elevator?
Stuff like that has been resopnsible for the theory that the Alien assimilates memories from its host. The closest we got to anything like that was the thing leaning over Jones' box (the recent extended edition actually makes this seem more psychopathic than intellectual, because it slams the thing against the wall).
And as has been pointed out, the first film already showed they could be penetrated by a harpoon. It stands to reason that futuristic explosive AP rounds would have the effects we saw. In no possible way were they de-powered.
QuoteThe only reason the marines got smoked is because they were unready for the threat/most had checked their good weapons/slightly undermanned. The scene works only once, and a repeat assault by a properly trained team they would have smoked the entire hive. That isn't scary to me.
Which makes it no different to the situation the Nostromo crew found themselves in. At most, that makes both situations equal, it doesn't make '
Aliens' lesser. If anything, because there are multiple creatures, that's an added threat component which didn't exist in the first film.
Quote from: MajorB on Mar 24, 2017, 03:58:58 PM
Quote from: prometheusfire08 on Mar 24, 2017, 03:39:25 PM
I think the one thing people choose to ignore about ALIENS is that the sulaco does not even scan for the possibility of any airborne pathogens or lifeform that may have been responsible for the colony going silent ....
and they all just run in there without any spacesuits or helmets ......
stupid imo
I like to think it was just released in a time before the internet allowed insufferable armchair scientists to congregate and attempt to outsmart every movie they can.
I love this, well said :D
@Xenomorphine
Excellent post! Unfortunately people always seem to cling to their misconceptions even tighter when confronted with a compelling argument, in any subject.
Quote from: MajorB on Mar 24, 2017, 03:58:58 PM
I like to think it was just released in a time before the internet allowed insufferable armchair scientists to congregate and attempt to outsmart every movie they can.
Well said.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/dOJt6XZlQw8qQ/giphy.gif)
With the Engineers on this poster, I have to ask:
Spoiler
Could this mean that the rumored flashback scenes with the Engineer Citadel is back in the film?
Quote from: Anthony on Mar 24, 2017, 04:10:33 PM
With the Engineers on this poster, I have to ask:
Spoiler
Could this mean that the rumored flashback scenes with the Engineer Citadel is back in the film?
Honestly I don't think the poster is indicative of what's going to be or not be in the film. If anything the poster may show up like a mural in the engineer citadel perhaps. Otherwise I think it only shows us that the movie will have aliens and engineers ( the latter probably all dead or seen briefly alive)
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 24, 2017, 04:03:35 PM
Quote from: Enoch on Mar 24, 2017, 11:48:26 AM
The Xenomorphs are the ultimate punishment for those transgressing the laws of creation.
Which laws of creation? And why punish an entire planetary ecosystem?
Let's not forget that insects and arachnids were a direct influence on the creature's design/presentation from the very first film:
https://alienseries.wordpress.com/2012/10/18/the-insect-influence/
Its too early to speculate about that. It could be many things and this scene could be interpreted in many different ways.
Are the Xenos punishers of the evil guys, can xenos be evil at all, if not then they could just represent the tool of higher power which is neither good or evil (some sort of ultimate power/god in cosmic hierarchy). Someone created them and unleashed them on that planet! If "Paradise" is the place of origin of Engineers with bio-mechanoid suits, then they ended up being punished for turning against the will of their superiors (Elders, those guys with cylindrical ship). Engineers with suits used goo for military advancement and for creation of some sort of weapons, and because of that ended up destroyed. (Same thing happened to them on LV-223). Who knows... as I said, its too early for such speculations. Maybe there is even a third or fourth scenario.
Well judging by what was said in Prometheus that the piled up bodies are over 2000 years old. Then something must have killed them off i mean no other attempts were made to go to Earth during those 2000 years. Maybe this species of Engineer have been dead the whole time on paradise??
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 24, 2017, 04:03:35 PM
Quote from: fiveways on Mar 24, 2017, 01:34:29 PM
Cameron made them stupider, and de-powered them greatly. He made it feel more like there power was in number instead of stealth and sheer brutality.
Incorrect. There are plenty of moments where we're shown the Aliens acting stealthily. Hell, their very first reveal, where they're ominously unfurling in those grotesque close-ups and the Marines had no idea where they're coming from, are easily as iconic as what happened in, say, Brett's demise. Same goes for how Spunkmeyer and Ferro were dealt with. As I wrote above, Newt's abduction is really evocative fo how the first film's creature had behaved. The thing looms out of the water like some angelic demon. Even the Queen plays around with themes of blasphemy; she's posed like a vampiric Buddha.
There were obvious moments where the creatures were hinted to be more intelligent, not less, too. Remember how deliebrately ambiguous it was, whether or not they cut the power on purpose or had nested around the reactor cooling system to safeguard their young? And how the Queen is clearly showing curiosity and learnign ability with the elevator?
Stuff like that has been resopnsible for the theory that the Alien assimilates memories from its host. The closest we got to anything like that was the thing leaning over Jones' box (the recent extended edition actually makes this seem more psychopathic than intellectual, because it slams the thing against the wall).
And as has been pointed out, the first film already showed they could be penetrated by a harpoon. It stands to reason that futuristic explosive AP rounds would have the effects we saw. In no possible way were they de-powered.
QuoteThe only reason the marines got smoked is because they were unready for the threat/most had checked their good weapons/slightly undermanned. The scene works only once, and a repeat assault by a properly trained team they would have smoked the entire hive. That isn't scary to me.
Which makes it no different to the situation the Nostromo crew found themselves in. At most, that makes both situations equal, it doesn't make 'Aliens' lesser. If anything, because there are multiple creatures, that's an added threat component which didn't exist in the first film.
The wall tactic works once. Any survivors or any tape that survives shows the tactic and it is over. The kidnapping of newt is just them overpowering the team and looking for new hosts to increase their numbers as they are beginning to shrink at that time. The power bit I always found silly, if an elevator is confusing, finding the exact way to cut power would be infinitely confusing and makes zero sense. I forgot the elevator scene totally mostly because I haven't seen the movie in years. That shows the ability to learn and curiosity. A cat or a dog will do the same thing with door knobs (my cat can open my bedroom door). It shows a limited level of intelligence. Not nearly the Big Guys level.
The Newt subplot more exists just so James Cameron can get another hamhanded mothering subplot into one of his films. Yeah that is an incredibly cynical answer to it. I'm not a fan of how Cameron writes mothering characters. I find it kinda off-putting, i get the idea but it comes off as such a male point of view of the mother/child relationship it disgusts me. It makes it hard for me to watch either Aliens or Terminator 2.
I've never been a fan of the Alien taking on memories part. That has always been the silly realms of Dark Horse to me. If people enjoy it cool, I'm not a fan. I like the biological weapon on legs idea. The memory part is also so far not canon (unless there is a toss away line in Alien:R i am forgetting, as I am still trying to forget that movie was ever made), so it is just a fan theory and little else.
On the training bit, it would take years to get the Nostromo crew to the level of any group of marines. On top of that, there is the idea of shooting a pulse rifle in a ship traveling through space that they address with the facehugger. You drop that much acid on the floor and you have no idea where it is going to stop. I always thought ash suggested fire because it would do minimal amounts of damage and that it would decompress the entire ship and blow his prize into the void of space. I kinda hate how they forget the acid blood part in the last bit of Alien, I actually should watch again and see if it splatters forward (into the lifeboat, which should cause a fair amount of damage). Even a group of marines vs the big guy would be limited in the weapons they could use in space. It boils again down to flame throwers.
Alien for me is terrifying because the monster is unstoppable, and because it is in space so you have limited ways to confront the creature. In Aliens, it is just numbers. While an alien swarm is a horrific idea, when armed and not worrying about blowing a hole in the side of a ship or having it's blood leak through it is far less scary. It's certainly less scary on repeated viewings where Alien kinda keeps it's appeal repeatedly.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 24, 2017, 04:03:35 PM
A scene which was effectively mirrored with Newt's abduction. The latter just had an additional ticking time-bomb effect, that's all (which is a bright way of making it feel different and better).
It also has the addiitonal benefit of lending some slight character-building layers to it. It's not just a random character who's been taken away. It plays directly into the themes of Ripley's motherhood instinct (which is a lot more logical in the extended edition) and Weaver's reaction is really well played. The visual of Casey's decapitated plastic head slowly sinking into the murk was really haunting, too.
Not so much "mirrored" as Cameron is lending heavily from Alien, in its use of a moving dot/dots on a tracker to create a sense of urgency. I like the scene in Aliens, but I don't think it's as anywhere near as cinematic and as visceral as the one in Alien. Two different styles. Both effective. I much prefer Scott's... but that's just my opinion.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 24, 2017, 04:03:35 PM
'Aliens' was never solely action. It's action-horror. There are plenty of nightmarish sequences in it. In fact, Ripley's dream, where she almost hatches, arguably has a much better atmosphere than Kane's, yet has no gore, whatsoever. That whole part where the Marines are wandering through the corridors and find nothing more threatening than rotting doughnuts, is reeking of tension. 'Alien' never had anything even close to the hive scene, either, in its theatrical release (and the deleted scene was certainly not as grand in scale).
I never stated Aliens was solely an action film but, IMO, it is principally one... and that's because it's invariably the action scenes that propel it forward. I'd say Alien is much more a thriller/horror because of Scott's use of cinematography, editing, sound etc. to create a sense of claustrophobia, tension and overall dread. This isn't said to criticise or undermine Aliens; as what sets Aliens apart from its predecessor is that Cameron consciously sets out to give audiences a different kind of film. It's strength is that he pulls the concept in totally different directions. But do I think it's as scary as Alien? Nope. Do I think Cameron achieves an aesthetic that's as nightmarish and impressionistic as Scott's? Nope. But I think it would be a mistake to believe Cameron was trying to do that in the first place.
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Mar 24, 2017, 04:29:27 PM
Well judging by what was said in Prometheus that the piled up bodies are over 2000 years old. Then something must have killed them off i mean no other attempts were made to go to Earth during those 2000 years. Maybe this species of Engineer have been dead the whole time on paradise??
Yeah - I get the feeling that they may have been dead all along too. David, or Shaw for that matter, glooping them from above in the juggernaut doesn't seem to make much sense... unless it was done accidentally.
Quote from: 426Buddy on Mar 23, 2017, 11:30:09 PM
I'm not saying that this means there is a queen in the film, im confident there won't be. But its undeniable that the crest on the poster is intended to look like that of an alien queen.
Yeah, I doubt there would be one as well. Might be possible that the existence of a Queen could be suggested or implied, similar to how the existence of a Queen was suggested in Alien: Isolation without one actually seeing or encountering one.
The sequels (or other prequels if you will) might introduce her fully it that is indeed the route they are taking.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 24, 2017, 04:03:35 PM
<snip>
Keep up the good work Xenomorphine, I haven't the energy!
ash only suggests that it might be afraid of fire , using the comparative of " animals " to back up his statement .
he later reveals to the remaining crew that it's the perfect organism ( not just some dumb animal ) . I think ash knew from the very start that this thing was going to wipe out the crew and that fire would most likely do nothing but piss off the ALIEN
being that the lifeform itself is a combination of both silica and carbon I wonder if ash ( like David ) admires it because it possibly offers a bridge into which they could become real boys ???
it seems to bring out feelings of devotion and admiration in the robots .... even bishop comments on how remarkable it is .
Oh my god. Xenomorphine is king.
People and their opinions man. Wow. So because Aliens has more aliens and has kabooms in it... the aliens are dumber?
I still think the Xenos in Aliens are less scary and too much like bugs.
But that's just my opinion and it doesn't really matter that much. Let's just try to enjoy the movies in our own way. ;)
Maybe the thing wrapped around the Engineer's face and neck is a Xeno tail? I think it's too small and spiky to be a trilobite.
Maybe it's just me but I don't see how "Big Chap" demonstrated some super level of intelligence. It was creepy as hell but wasn't really even seen all that much. I mean, it mainly just skulked about and killed most of the crew through brute force.
I just realized how big these aliens must be if they are comparable or bigger in size than the engineers in the mural.
Quote from: 426Buddy on Mar 24, 2017, 06:54:14 PM
I just realized how big these aliens must be if they are comparable or bigger in size than the engineers in the mural.
Borne from Engineers I suppose?
size is an interesting detail, they do look large. while - like others - i dont necessarily believe that this poster is indicative of what we'll see in the film, i choose to believe that the forms at the top are meant to invoke the crown of a queen. and if so, i see a much larger crown than most seem to be pointing out. what I see extends almost to the edge of the left side of the image, has another sharp point just below the upturned alien head on the left, and thus would make her head take up almost the entire height of the image. it looks more reminiscent of the AVP queen design than the ALIENS design, but if this is at all legit/intentional, she'd be enormous, and i can dig that.
as for the ALIEN/ALIENS discussion, i also agree that the swarm in ALIENS was less frightening in its presentation and seemed to give them a more rabid dog feel than the deliberate/psychopathic murder monster from the original. the queen showed clear intelligence at the end, which was more than awesome, but there was very little restraint shown by the individual aliens in ALIENS - they sort of just ran at you screaming (which is certainly frightening, but not quite as much as something that waits and considers its options). even with greater numbers, i think there could be a more effective way to illustrate their intelligence and kick up the creepy factor a few notches.
Quote from: rabidranger on Mar 24, 2017, 06:44:54 PM
Maybe it's just me but I don't see how "Big Chap" demonstrated some super level of intelligence.
It didn't demonstrate a level of intelligence on par with us, much less superior. Ash's comments about admiring its purity, a survivor unclouded by conscious, remorse, or delusions of morality can actually be suggestive of lower intelligence than humans. The alien's intelligence isn't really a theme present in the first film though. The sequel, however, definitely plays on that theme of the aliens possessing intelligence comparable to us and made them even scarier in the process.
I really hope that its not a queen because its v frustrating how quickly this thread devolved into an Alien v Aliens debate. This film should be heading further away from Aliens if anything
Quote from: Rabbit2100 on Mar 24, 2017, 07:31:02 PM
I really hope that its not a queen because its v frustrating how quickly this thread devolved into an Alien v Aliens debate. This film should be heading further away from Aliens if anything
No one is really arguing against Alien, everyone here knows its a great film. Aliens on the other hand is always getting crapped on despite the fact it is also a great film. To be honest, the chances that we'll ever get another alien film as great as the first two are practically non-existent. I'm amazed they caught lighting in a bottle twice, which is amazing in itself.
I'm very excited for Covenant, but it's highly unlikely that it will stack up with the first or second film.
im just curious, to those who want egg morphing over a queen (as far as the production of eggs is concerned), is this because you dont like the queen? ive always thought she was one of the best parts of the alien universe, and most people I talk to (including myself) prefer the theatrical cut of ALIEN over the one that includes the egg morphing. I realize that egg morphing was more a part of ridleys project than the queen was, so we're more likely to see something along those lines in his future work, but i always felt that the dallas/egg morphing scene was somewhat cheesy and harder to believe than an egg-laying queen (which is why the additional mutation life cycle elements in prometheus felt so convoluted).
I really think both Queen and Egg morphing can coexist.
I wonder if a facehugger could impregnate a protomorph
Quote from: Predaker on Mar 24, 2017, 07:29:53 PM
Quote from: rabidranger on Mar 24, 2017, 06:44:54 PM
Maybe it's just me but I don't see how "Big Chap" demonstrated some super level of intelligence.
It didn't demonstrate a level of intelligence on par with us, much less superior. Ash's comments about admiring its purity, a survivor unclouded by conscious, remorse, or delusions of morality can actually be suggestive of lower intelligence than humans. The alien's intelligence isn't really a theme present in the first film though. The sequel, however, definitely plays on that theme of the aliens possessing intelligence comparable to us and made them even scarier in the process.
Well, I look at the xenomorphs as highly adapted and capable predators with a variety of offensive and defensive capabilities. Weapons-which is what I think their purpose is.
Quote from: skhellter on Mar 24, 2017, 03:53:40 PM
Quote from: fiveways on Mar 24, 2017, 01:34:29 PM
Cameron made them stupider, and de-powered them greatly..
They cut off the lights.
That was smarter than anything that the creature did in the first film.
The creature's intelligence in the first film was always ambiguous..
Cameron showed us that it was capable of actual tactical thinking.
Even 1 alien could be stealthy and deadly enough on its own - ex: the Dropship.
there is something to say for both approaches;
a single deadly silent cunning killer,
and a mass of the same pairing together like an army of death
in reality, the aliens didnt act so much more bug-like, it was rather reffered to much more from the marines.
they did pair in great groups, and i think that was a bit of a downfall in some areas.
for example, when they crawl in the cieling, that was a magnificient idea, but the sheer amount of aliens kindof destroyed it.
there were so many, that it really was impossible to survive and them falling from the cieling and then going everywhere and
the 'heroes' essentially surviving that didnt do it much good.
a single alien that was crawling in the cieling, and then one of the marines - hudson for example, then looking through it and
at that very moment coming face to face with the alien and getting abducted would have been better. firing the gun in the scare
into the area effectively hurting one or 2 crewmembers that then started limbing away because they noticed all of a sudden a
mass quantity of aliens were on its way would have been better.
it felt sometimes like a single alien is better than a pack of them.
cutting the light was a good one, and again, would only have been stronger if it was the actual 'drone' that would have sneaked in alone,
instead of a huge pack.
i also would have preffered to see more bipedal movements of the xenos, as in alien 1, whilst aliens had more on all 4's movements,
which further turns it into an animal instead of something almost humanoid.
Woah, is there a queen face hidden in the bottom, or am I seeing things? :o
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FbNFiJG5.png&hash=b0f5cd633ab43c9bae89deec4eb5bacb343e92d5)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FIoy71YY.png&hash=7ccf81f51e511cb5e26ebf7078c9f72c0a3f1ccd)
Exciting!
The thing wrapped around the engineers head isn't a tail; it's a tongue.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Mar 24, 2017, 11:31:35 PM
Woah, is there a queen face hidden in the bottom, or am I seeing things? :o
http://i.imgur.com/bNFiJG5.png
http://i.imgur.com/Ioy71YY.png
Exciting!
Not really, just looks the same as the ones to the right of the central Alien. But there is a Queen likeness with their mouths and teeth.
We're at 18 pages and no one has posted a full piece by piece breakdown of this thing yet? ???;D
Enoch i know you're cooking something up right?
What I find interesting is the variations of the xenomorphs. Some are fleshier, some have extremely sharp teeth, some even have more tubing on their heads. Don't see any biomechanical beasts, but the backdrop does a good job of conveying that aspect. I don't think the xenomorphs have ever had as sharp as teeth as some of them have in this poster. They typically have human teeth, albeit extremely exaggerated in some cases, but here they're flat out monster-like in some areas. It's kind of cool to see. Also, I'm not seeing any hint at the inner jaws, which is strange because it's one of those defining characteristics. We haven't seen even as much as a hint in the trailers or other advertising now that I think about it.
Gorgeous. Poster of the year? I'm glad to see there is finally something excellent happening in the marketing department.
TeeChip seems to be selling the poster now but I question the quality. I highly doubt this is licensed or official. Plus, they've ripped off designs from places like Fright Rags in the past and slapped them on their own products. Any order from them before?
https://pro.teechip.com/calimay?retailProductSlug=DA355F2A47E5B6-F5DAB6F0CEDE-PS0-TC2002-WHT
How can they get away with that? I don't think this place would rip you off, but I don't see how they can do that. Unless they have a deal with Fox?
Quote from: newagescamartist on Mar 25, 2017, 01:46:00 AM
What I find interesting is the variations of the xenomorphs. Some are fleshier, some have extremely sharp teeth, some even have more tubing on their heads. Don't see any biomechanical beasts, but the backdrop does a good job of conveying that aspect. I don't think the xenomorphs have ever had as sharp as teeth as some of them have in this poster. They typically have human teeth, albeit extremely exaggerated in some cases, but here they're flat out monster-like in some areas. It's kind of cool to see. Also, I'm not seeing any hint at the inner jaws, which is strange because it's one of those defining characteristics. We haven't seen even as much as a hint in the trailers or other advertising now that I think about it.
It's likely that the original xenomorphs aren't biomechanical, and the one we saw in Alien 1979 is a mutated/evolved freak of nature to the rest of the xenos.
Speculation:
I still think that all David is doing is reverse engineering the Accelerant.. getting it closer to it's original form. The Accelerant is just a byproduct of the Engineers tampering with the original Alien creature. That's why it creates organisms that act, look, and seemingly reproduce in similar ways. It's a template, a blueprint, a weaponized and easily controllable version of the Alien.
The Alien is maybe in fact an ancient organism created to destroy the Engineers, by the same beings who created the Engineers - the original Space Jockey from Alien. The Engineers stole the "Promethian Fire" from their own gods.. the fire being the Space Jockey technology. That's why the tech at the beginning of Prometheus and the temples in Covenant seems so angular and clean compared to the complex, chaotic and boney architecture of the Derelict. Also accounts for the size differences ;]
^ I hope you're right.
Don't forget that the Xenomorph's purpose is to terraform planets for the Ancient Ones who created both the Engineer and the Predator.
Quote from: Alien Runner on Mar 25, 2017, 08:26:32 AM
Don't forget that the Xenomorph's purpose is to terraform planets for the Ancient Ones who created both the Engineer and the Predator.
You are going to be disappointed.
Don't buy the poster from that shop, it's simply someone taking the image and whacking it on a print on demand affiliate store, nothing to do with Fox (or teechip themselves) at all. They're obviously hoping to get away with a days worth of commissions without it getting noticed by Fox and shut down, hence the "limited" 24 hr sale.
Quote from: Alien Runner on Mar 25, 2017, 08:26:32 AM
Don't forget that the Xenomorph's purpose is to terraform planets for the Ancient Ones who created both the Engineer and the Predator.
Your source? (besides
YOU!)
:P
Quote from: Ultramorph on Mar 24, 2017, 11:31:35 PM
Woah, is there a queen face hidden in the bottom, or am I seeing things? :o
http://i.imgur.com/bNFiJG5.png
http://i.imgur.com/Ioy71YY.png
Exciting!
if i could upvote this i would, that is certainly looking very much like a queen!
if we were to go by that the aliens we see in this poster are engineer-xenos and more biological than biomechanical,
then this might indeed be how the biological queen could look like.
and as for the teeth aspect, that's nonsense, we already have seen how the teeth look like from the normal xeno,
this is different and looks a lot like the queen's teeth.
Queen confirmed!
That's not a queen, its just one of the 2 or 3 different alien designs the artist has repeated throughout the image, that one particularly elongated to make it fit the design. There's another two at the other end of the image.
It's really clear if you lighten the image, it's a few classic aliens from the franchise reworked into a new art work. With one 'new' alien from the Covenant trailer at the bottom.
I edited the image so you can see the details better. :)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FtQCjZP3.jpg&hash=c201bf2355c95a4f0e462f05e446f1117ab5da79)
Exactly, there are a few long-tooth alien heads in there with the pulled back lips, like the queen, but they arent queens, just one of the designs the artist used.
And at the bottom, just left of centre, is our new wiry Covenant alien from the top of Danny McBride's cockpit.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 24, 2017, 04:03:35 PM
They acted no more and no less like "giant bugs" than the first one did.
That's not entirely true though, is it. Although the insect inspiration was always there in ALIEN, I don't really see how anyone can argue that Cameron didn't place a far greater emphasis on the insect elements with the introduction of the hive and the Queen. Where's ALIEN presented the Xeno in a more ambiguous way, leaving the idea of the creature more open to audience interpretation.
I've always felt the portrayal of the alien as the 'perfect organism,' some unstoppable biomechanical nightmare, as suggested by Ash. Was a superior idea. Irrelevant of it being insectoid or not. And I personally felt the alien worked better as the unknown. A Lovecraftian creature, beyond human explanation.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 24, 2017, 04:03:35 PM
Which makes it no different to the situation the Nostromo crew found themselves in. At most, that makes both situations equal, it doesn't make ']Aliens' lesser. If anything, because there are multiple creatures, that's an added threat component which didn't exist in the first film.
In ALIEN, Ripley is not a heroine, she's a survivor. But at the start of ALIENS, even though she's got out with her life from the first film, she's still a victim; psychologically broken and traumatised.
ALIENS is really about her getting back on the horse, as Burke suggests, facing her fears and earning the right to dream again; to stop being the victim. She does this by transforming from survivor into heroine, and we, the audience, go on the journey with her. As she conquers her fears, the audience does as well. Unfortunately, an unavoidable consequence of the completion of her journey in ALIENS, is the Xeno is left diminished and overexposed. The nightmares gone. She can dream again. Flying off into the sunset with her nuclear family.
That's why they made the creative choice to kill off Newt and Hicks in Alien 3. Go back to having just one alien and reducing the human threat to the creature, by leaving the human characters with rudimentary weapons. An attempt to bring back the nightmare. To make the alien frightening again. Weaver herself, on the set of ALIEN 3, talked about how she felt the creature was demystified in ALIENS, by killing too many. And in my opinion, she was right. Making them cannon fodder, took away a lot of their threat.
In reality, the way their portrayed in ALIENS, they would stand little chance against a technologically advanced species. Making Ripley's claim of: 'if just one of those things got down here!'... Hysterical to say the least.
Quote from: rabidranger on Mar 24, 2017, 06:44:54 PM
Maybe it's just me but I don't see how "Big Chap" demonstrated some super level of intelligence. It was creepy as hell but wasn't really even seen all that much. I mean, it mainly just skulked about and killed most of the crew through brute force.
.
The thing is, people can go on about the creature not behaving with much intelligence in ALIEN, or how ALIENS fleshed out that aspect. Although, them behaving like cannon fodder at times, some what undermines that idea imo. But I feel that's missing the point of it's portrayal in ALIEN. Its meant to be in the shadows, both literally and metaphorically. Your not supposed to fully understand it. It's supposed to be alien. And to me, the creature only really lived up to the title in the first film.
Quote from: 426Buddy on Mar 24, 2017, 01:30:44 PM
The intent was that the alien was incinerated and killed at the end of ALIEN. They couldn't show that in explicit detail because of time, money, technological constraints. But the intention is there, I'm sure plasma engines don't shoot out rain showers either but we know its not rain despite what is shown in the film.
Excellent post! Unfortunately people always seem to cling to their misconceptions even tighter when confronted with a compelling argument, in any subject.
I'm sorry, but you have to see the double standards at play here. You talk about the misconception that a small minority of ALIEN fans make on certain issues. But I constantly read ALIENS fans insisting things like egg morphing can't be canon, because the scene was never included in the theatrical cut. Even though it was the intention of the filmmakers, actually filmed and included in the directors cut. Unlike the intention to have the alien incinerated by the engines of the Narcissus. Which was never filmed and actually directly contradicted by what is seen on screen. But the latter is supposed to be excepted as canon, while the former is not. Because one fits with certain fans preferred interpretations, while the other does not.
Quote from: Predaker on Mar 24, 2017, 01:55:29 PM
Yes, to a tiny fraction of the fan base who wilfully choose to ignore certain facts about Alien in favour of their own misinterpretations.
The creature is presented in an ambiguous way in ALIEN. So trying to claim your preferred interpretation as definitive, while branding others interpretations as misconceptions, is hypocritical imo.
Quote from: Dangerous Days on Mar 25, 2017, 01:33:17 PM
Where's ALIEN presented the Xeno in a more ambiguous way, leaving the idea of the creature more open to audience interpretation.
I've always felt the portrayal of the alien as the 'perfect organism,' some unstoppable biomechanical nightmare, as suggested by Ash. Was a superior idea. Irrelevant of it being insectoid or not. And I personally felt the alien worked better as the unknown. A Lovecraftian creature, beyond human explanation.
Yes - totally agree. The xeno, as presented in Alien, is totally alien. It's morphology/lifecycle is presented in such a way that the audience can't predict its nature or what it will do. This is where much of the tension/suspense in Alien comes from... the unpredictable nature of the threat/menace.
I think Cameron did exactly the right thing with Aliens, in that he opened up the films fictional universe... but a consequence of that was that much of the horror/suspense was lost, and the xeno itself, lost a sense of its original mystery. Aliens is still a great movie though... and the best sequel Alien could have got.
QuoteThe creature is presented in an ambiguous way in ALIEN. So trying to claim your preferred interpretation as definitive, while branding others interpretations as misconceptions, is hypocritical imo.
I never said that. My post was a response to him saying Cameron is notorious for degrading the alien.
And yes, it is a misconception to say the alien is indestructible or was ever intended to be so.
Quote from: Darth Vile on Mar 25, 2017, 03:47:41 PM
Quote from: Dangerous Days on Mar 25, 2017, 01:33:17 PM
Where's ALIEN presented the Xeno in a more ambiguous way, leaving the idea of the creature more open to audience interpretation.
I've always felt the portrayal of the alien as the 'perfect organism,' some unstoppable biomechanical nightmare, as suggested by Ash. Was a superior idea. Irrelevant of it being insectoid or not. And I personally felt the alien worked better as the unknown. A Lovecraftian creature, beyond human explanation.
Yes - totally agree. The xeno, as presented in Alien, is totally alien. It's morphology/lifecycle is presented in such a way that the audience can't predict its nature or what it will do. This is where much of the tension/suspense in Alien comes from... the unpredictable nature of the threat/menace.
I think Cameron did exactly the right thing with Aliens, in that he opened up the films fictional universe... but a consequence of that was that much of the horror/suspense was lost, and the xeno itself, lost a sense of its original mystery. Aliens is still a great movie though... and the best sequel Alien could have got.
You wouldn't get any disagreement from me. I also think ALIENS is great movie. But just like you, I can appreciate ALIENS, but sill recognise how it changed our perception of the alien and removed its mystique... At least for me anyway.
Quote from: Predaker on Mar 25, 2017, 03:49:16 PM
QuoteThe creature is presented in an ambiguous way in ALIEN. So trying to claim your preferred interpretation as definitive, while branding others interpretations as misconceptions, is hypocritical imo.
I never said that. My post was a response to him saying Cameron is notorious for degrading the alien.
And yes, it is a misconception to say the alien is indestructible or was ever intended to be so.
Maybe I was too blunt in expressing my point, so I apologise if it came across that way.
Even though I wouldn't claim that interpretation myself. I think if people want to take Ash's speech, or the climax to the film, as implying the alien is indestructible. Then personally, I don't see any definitive evidence to support or disprove the idea in ALIEN itself. Its open to interpretation. And that was my point. But it seems we will have to disagree on that one.
Anyway, I feel like I've added to the list of those that have hijacked this thread. So its probably best to save the debate for another time.
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 25, 2017, 01:21:35 PM
I edited the image so you can see the details better. :)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FtQCjZP3.jpg&hash=c201bf2355c95a4f0e462f05e446f1117ab5da79)
Nice work! That upside-down alien head right at the bottom left corner looks a LOT like a Queen.
But to be honest, this all just looks like a mishmash of different designs thrown together to try and make a cool poster, with a shit-tonne of Photoshop grain/noise thrown on top in an attempt to blend everything together. I somehow doubt we'll actually get to see all these different designs in the film itself, much less an actual Queen.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Mar 25, 2017, 04:39:39 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 25, 2017, 01:21:35 PM
I edited the image so you can see the details better. :)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FtQCjZP3.jpg&hash=c201bf2355c95a4f0e462f05e446f1117ab5da79)
Nice work! That upside-down alien head right at the bottom left corner looks a LOT like a Queen.
But to be honest, this all just looks like a mishmash of different designs thrown together to try and make a cool poster, with a shit-tonne of Photoshop grain/noise thrown on top in an attempt to blend everything together. I somehow doubt we'll actually get to see all these different designs in the film itself, much less an actual Queen.
Thanks!
Those are exactly my thoughts as well. It looks really cool, but it's probably just a poster and nothing more.
This is poster, yes. I would not expect to see queens or scenes anywhere similar to one depicted on poster, but I expect to see murals and reliefs inside the Engineer temple, maybe this scene is one part of those reliefs (very possibly). Most important motif of this poster are not versions of Xenomoprhs (we already know that there are many versions of xenos capable to sustain their life in most harsh conitions), so the most important motif is of course clash of Xenos with their presumed creators - Engineers. Thats the most important thing this poster gave us.
Quote from: Dangerous Days on Mar 25, 2017, 04:19:13 PM
Quote from: Predaker on Mar 25, 2017, 03:49:16 PM
QuoteThe creature is presented in an ambiguous way in ALIEN. So trying to claim your preferred interpretation as definitive, while branding others interpretations as misconceptions, is hypocritical imo.
I never said that. My post was a response to him saying Cameron is notorious for degrading the alien.
And yes, it is a misconception to say the alien is indestructible or was ever intended to be so.
Maybe I was too blunt in expressing my point, so I apologise if it came across that way.
Even though I wouldn't claim that interpretation myself. I think if people want to take Ash's speech, or the climax to the film, as implying the alien is indestructible. Then personally, I don't see any definitive evidence to support or disprove the idea in ALIEN itself. Its open to interpretation. And that was my point. But it seems we will have to disagree on that one.
Not at all, you're simply attributing a sentiment to me that I never expressed.
ALIEN absolutely has some ambiguous elements that can be interpreted in different ways but the alien being indestructible is not a concept in the film. The idea of destroying or even injuring it aboard the ship is definitively present and we know for a fact the alien is not indestructible because the harpoon pierced it. Regarding the novelization, regenerating a limb is even more evidence of destructibility. The very notion that any organism could be indestructible is pure fantasy - a genre where you won't find ALIEN.
If the Alien was indestructible, it would not need Acid for blood.
... you know, I'm pretty sure Ash was just saying it was difficult to kill. Not invincible.
Quote from: BishopShouldGo on Mar 25, 2017, 08:48:41 PM
... you know, I'm pretty sure Ash was just saying it was difficult to kill. Not invincible.
Yep. Psychological warfare. Break their spirit. He can't hurt them with his body at this point, so he's hurting them with his intellect.
I would say he was saying it 'relative' to the scenario. He knew that they were not equipped to deal with it.
little late to the party, but boy, what an amazing, amazing poster. I hope the center alien IS the movie design
Quote from: StrangeShape on Mar 25, 2017, 10:26:50 PM
little late to the party, but boy, what an amazing, amazing poster. I hope the center alien IS the movie design
Covenant's alien is in the bottom left. I guess it's possible there are more than just the one, but I haven't read spoilers or anything like that.
Quote from: newagescamartist on Mar 25, 2017, 11:05:21 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Mar 25, 2017, 10:26:50 PM
little late to the party, but boy, what an amazing, amazing poster. I hope the center alien IS the movie design
Covenant's alien is in the bottom left. I guess it's possible there are more than just the one, but I haven't read spoilers or anything like that.
You sure? the one with a profile view? cause the one in the covenant has the same penis shaped head as the one in the first three movies, as seen in the shots of him crawling upside down on the ship in the trailer
Quote from: Predaker on Mar 25, 2017, 07:14:29 PM
Quote from: Dangerous Days on Mar 25, 2017, 04:19:13 PM
Quote from: Predaker on Mar 25, 2017, 03:49:16 PM
QuoteThe creature is presented in an ambiguous way in ALIEN. So trying to claim your preferred interpretation as definitive, while branding others interpretations as misconceptions, is hypocritical imo.
I never said that. My post was a response to him saying Cameron is notorious for degrading the alien.
And yes, it is a misconception to say the alien is indestructible or was ever intended to be so.
Maybe I was too blunt in expressing my point, so I apologise if it came across that way.
Even though I wouldn't claim that interpretation myself. I think if people want to take Ash's speech, or the climax to the film, as implying the alien is indestructible. Then personally, I don't see any definitive evidence to support or disprove the idea in ALIEN itself. Its open to interpretation. And that was my point. But it seems we will have to disagree on that one.
Not at all, you're simply attributing a sentiment to me that I never expressed.
ALIEN absolutely has some ambiguous elements that can be interpreted in different ways but the alien being indestructible is not a concept in the film. The idea of destroying or even injuring it aboard the ship is definitively present and we know for a fact the alien is not indestructible because the harpoon pierced it. Regarding the novelization, regenerating a limb is even more evidence of destructibility. The very notion that any organism could be indestructible is pure fantasy - a genre where you won't find ALIEN.
I apologise again if that's what I did.
As for the matter at hand. As I said, it's not a conclusion I personally agree with. If you skim a few pages back, you will see my post about O'Bannon and acid for blood. The point I was trying to make, is you can understand why people have come to these conclusions over the years. Whether its Ash telling Ripley they can't kill it. The alien surviving being exposed to the vacuum of space, or remaining physically intact after being hit with the engines of the Narcissus. People certainly have evidence from the film to draw from, if they want to come to those conclusions. There's also plenty of evidence in ALIEN to contradict those opinions, as you've rightly pointed out.
If we want to talk ambiguity, just look at the post's below now debating what Ash really meant.
As for the fantasy. Well I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but the Alien franchise is full of fantasy. ALIEN and ALIENS included.
Do I personally care these films can be pulled apart scientifically?... No, I don't. Because I recognise them for what they are: Great fiction and great entertainment.
Easily my favorite of the posters that have been released. Hopefully it ends up being in a potential future give away. (Wink)
Quote from: Dangerous Days on Mar 26, 2017, 01:10:30 AM
There's also plenty of evidence in ALIEN to contradict those opinions, as you've rightly pointed out.
Not only contradicts but trumps any opinion or suggestion of indestructibility. You can't have it both ways. The alien might be the toughest critter in the universe, but indestructible it is not.
If it bleeds... ;D
Quote from: Predaker on Mar 26, 2017, 04:45:41 AM
Quote from: Dangerous Days on Mar 26, 2017, 01:10:30 AM
There's also plenty of evidence in ALIEN to contradict those opinions, as you've rightly pointed out.
Not only contradicts but trumps any opinion or suggestion of indestructibility. You can't have it both ways. The alien might be the toughest critter in the universe, but indestructible it is not.
If it bleeds... ;D
Obannon said it best :
Dan Obannon:
"I was stuck on one point; once they got the thing on the spaceship, I wanted to avoid the cliché of bullets bouncing off of it: the indestructible monster, I mean, that's the ancient cliché, right? 'You can't stop it, bullets won't stop it.' Not at all. I wanted the thing to be, in every respect, a natural animal, which means, yes, if you shoot it, it'll die."
"Once I had gotten the Alien inside the ship, I encountered a narrative problem, namely, why didn't they just kill the thing? ... Generations of writers before me had resorted to, 'Bullets won't stop it!' which is, of course, the biggest groaner of all time. Bullets will stop anything ... Though deadly, the critter was as vulnerable as any other animal to having holes drilled in it." (2004)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jamescamerononline.com%2Fcp22.png&hash=ccf972b4558b658cbdda83153a915e302f51e319)
The amount of purist uninformed propaganda here is staggering, havent seen that since 2001 myself, must be imdb people. As for the whole insect, Scott refers to the alien as insect numerous times, and said he wanted it to be like an ant. Anyway, Valaquens blog is pure facts and quotes and is always a good read before stating any opinions - https://alienseries.wordpress.com
Quote from: Predaker on Mar 26, 2017, 04:45:41 AM
Quote from: Dangerous Days on Mar 26, 2017, 01:10:30 AM
There's also plenty of evidence in ALIEN to contradict those opinions, as you've rightly pointed out.
Not only contradicts but trumps any opinion or suggestion of indestructibility. You can't have it both ways. The alien might be the toughest critter in the universe, but indestructible it is not.
If it bleeds... ;D
I agree, you should not be able to have it both ways, but independent of the filmmakers intentions, the film clearly tries to, or at least leaves itself open to being interpreted that way.
Quote from: StrangeShape on Mar 26, 2017, 08:22:27 AM
Quote from: Predaker on Mar 26, 2017, 04:45:41 AM
Quote from: Dangerous Days on Mar 26, 2017, 01:10:30 AM
There's also plenty of evidence in ALIEN to contradict those opinions, as you've rightly pointed out.
Not only contradicts but trumps any opinion or suggestion of indestructibility. You can't have it both ways. The alien might be the toughest critter in the universe, but indestructible it is not.
If it bleeds... ;D
Obannon said it best :
Dan Obannon: "I was stuck on one point; once they got the thing on the spaceship, I wanted to avoid the cliché of bullets bouncing off of it: the indestructible monster, I mean, that's the ancient cliché, right? 'You can't stop it, bullets won't stop it.' Not at all. I wanted the thing to be, in every respect, a natural animal, which means, yes, if you shoot it, it'll die."
"Once I had gotten the Alien inside the ship, I encountered a narrative problem, namely, why didn't they just kill the thing? ... Generations of writers before me had resorted to, 'Bullets won't stop it!' which is, of course, the biggest groaner of all time. Bullets will stop anything ... Though deadly, the critter was as vulnerable as any other animal to having holes drilled in it." (2004)
http://www.jamescamerononline.com/cp22.png
The amount of purist uninformed propaganda here is staggering, havent seen that since 2001 myself, must be imdb people. As for the whole insect, Scott refers to the alien as insect numerous times, and said he wanted it to be like an ant. Anyway, Valaquens blog is pure facts and quotes and is always a good read before stating any opinions - https://alienseries.wordpress.com
What ever O'Bannon's intentions were, we still have to recognise certain contradictions between intentions and what appears on film.
To me, a bullet proof creature is no more fantastical than a complex organism that can survive in the vacuum of space, or remain intact after being blasted with the engines of a spacecraft.
The problem I have with these arguments from authority is the double standards often used from both sides.
As I tried to point out in my earlier post about egg morphing vs the incineration of the creature by the Narcissus engines. Intentions of the filmmakers seem to go out of the window when it suits certain arguments.
The insect inspirations were always there, no argument from me. But we still have to recognise a difference in how these themes are portrayed on screen between the 2 films. RS's approach is more nuanced. Cameron's depiction, although a logical conclusion some may argue, is more overt, less mysterious; and for me, less alien as a result.
The truth is, we can all pull these films apart logically and scientifically if we choose to. But its a testament of their quality to me, that I can suspended my disbelief and leave that baggage at the door when watching.
I also feel, it has to be recognised, that these argument rage on, not just through people being ill-informed, but because there are contradictions in and between the films themselves.
The first film explicitly shows the Alien bleeding when hit by the harpoon gun. There was no contradiction in intention: you shoot the thing, it's shot. The end.
if it bleeds, it has veins. if it has veins, it has a vein system. if it has a vein system, it must have something to pump the blood through the body. that means a heart. if it's mechanical or biological or biomechanical, it is, in the very essense, what is a heart. damage/destroy the heart, end of story.
funny enough, i have not seen a mention of that ever. it must have a heart, there is no way around it. even if it has acid for blood, the acid is part of the blood, and more of a protective feat than anything. the blood must carry oxygen or other nutrients for it to be able to function and live.
even if it is a perfect organism, it's still an organism. that means it has a biological build that demands certain organs. brains, a heart, blood, longues, probably liver, bowels, a stomach, etc. it definately has various glands. it produces saliva, so it needs glands for that. it also is able somehow to secrete resin, as it builds a nest/hive. it somehow thus must be able to secrete resin. it needs a gland for that too.
in any case, it's a living organism, that serves a function, and is more or less a biomechanical machine with a goal. its offcourse very interesting all that, but it only means that it is something that is lives, and something that lives, is able to die.
a rock is lifeless, end of story. a robot is not a living organism, but even then it can be terminated.
if the alien couldn't die, it wouldnt need acid for blood. if it was invincible/indestructable, it would not 'tacticaly' move but simply go from human to human and kill them one at a time.
it's as both lethal as it is mortal.
i like the fact the ship simply had no guns. we also saw that is sufficiently strong that when a human tried to attack it with an axe or whatever it was (when lambert was about to be lobotomized) that it defended itself from the attack. the only thing the crew had was the flamethrower.
also, we saw that steam or perhaps cold air also hurts it. it thus is able to sense pain. for example, when ripley wanted to blow it out of the airlock in the narcissus, she did something that saw some steam sprayed on it, and it screamed as it did hurt it. and it got rather pissed off by it too.
it has thus emotions, it has feelings. Ash stated it was not hampered by moral codes, when he paired it to say it was the perfect organism.
apart from the moral aspect, it is just as mortal as the rest of us. Dwayne Johnson is stronger than me, but he's just as mortal.
if a soldier wears a bulletproof vest, he's still just as mortal.
'a tough 'sonofabish'' but never undestructable.
guns kills it, there simply weren't aboard. and even if they did, one must question, would it be wise to shoot at the creature and either
a) shoot a hole in the hull with devastating results
b) shoot a hole in the creature and have its acidic blood burn a hole in the hull with devastiting results.
'you have my deepest sympathy'
indeed, even if the crew had guns, they didnt stand much of a chance, perhaps even less.
they wanted to shoot it out of the airlocks, that was the only solution. not neccesarily to kill it,
but it wouldnt be able to do anything to them anymore.
even if it's body could withstand the pressure, it would die from radiation, cold, and lack of ingredients for sustaining life.
a human in an astronaut suit can stay outside of a station for a while, but if it was disconnected and drifting in space,
it would die eventually. soon enough from oxygen, really, but it wouldnt explode or decompose in seconds in space.
as for the engine thing,
it was clear to me that it got hurt from the engine blow. the engine was not on when it grabbed onto it, it was however
rather hurt by it, showing it got damaged. you hear it scream, it cant hold on to the engine obviously, and you see imho
fragments of burnt alien spraying around. tiny, but i thought i rememberd seeing 'something like a cloud' / steam coming
off the alien.
it is to all its core, mortal.
They had weapons. Dallas mentions them in the theatrical cut and Kane pulls one out when inspecting the egg in the Director's Cut. They couldn't use them because of the acid blood.
Quote from: cliffhanger on Mar 26, 2017, 12:20:00 PM
if it bleeds, it has veins. if it has veins, it has a vein system. if it has a vein system, it must have something to pump the blood through the body. that means a heart.
Worth pointing out that there's several problems with this logic chain. Insects, for example, have blood but have an "open" circulatory system that doesn't rely on veins.
It can be penetrated with enough force; it's just a very tough son of a bitch, but not quite indestructible.
@cliffhanger
as Xenomrph mentions, biological does not demand the organs you listed. Insects don't have lungs, or a heart as such. They have systems which serve the same or similar ends, ie pump blood, or distribute air, but for example the oxygen isn't transported within the insects "blood" equivalent.
Point is - we have "alien" (to us) biological systems on earth. Why would an actual alien have remotely similar systems to us?
DECODING THE ALIEN COVENANT POSTER IN COLOR!! . (By Gavin Singleton of scified)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alien-covenant.com%2Faliencovenant_uploads%2Fcolor_ac_poster.jpg&hash=8ae45eef4042e0796478a00b039a3bb55315a0df)
The legend for the colors used is as follows: Quote
Yellow - Protomorphs (3)
Light Turquoise Blue - Xenomorphs (9)
Dark Blue - Engineers (4)
Purple - Trilobite (at least 1)
Red - Queen (at least 1)
Green - Facehuggers (2)
Quote Some have suggested that what I have identified as the Queens crown carapace may in actuality be the body of a Trilobite. I postulate that is instead both, as the body section of the Trilobites back shares some similar markings to that of the Queens crown carapace.
You will also notice that the three Protomorphs are shown almost unobstructed and unrestrained, whereas the numerous Xenomorphs seem to be overwhelmed, with only their heads visible among the mass. Most interesting are the four engineers, the three males of which are being subjugated, two by (differing) Facehuggers, and one by the Trilobite. The female engineer (the bosom/breast is too full to be male, the upper arm is less muscular and the hand is more feminine) is the only Engineer not being attacked, though like the other three Engineers her face is obscured.
The monochrome, untreated areas are where the mystery remains. Although there is an arm visible in the top left quadrant with an accompanying rib cage, whatever this figure is meant to be has been morphed into the surrounding mass. More interesting is the pelvic shaped mass above this arm and the inhuman mass beneath the lowermost Engineer.
As for the inferred meaning of all of this one can only speculate, as the best art even that which is memorial in nature is meant to be open to the interpretation of the audience. Even when the artist is clearly depicting something identifiable the best examples of art, especially renaissance pieces can be viewed from a different perspective.
My interpretation of this piece would be that the Engineers and Xenomorphs are being subjugated by the Trilobite with the Protomorphs rising from the chaos. The Queen/Trilobites crown being displayed top and center is possibly symbolizing said creatures position in the hierarchy of the hive mass depicted, possibly inferring that the Queen is closer related to the Protomorph than the classic Xenomorph.
http://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/43817 (http://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/43817)
Nice Himmel!!
If you lighten the picture, you see a little more.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi64.tinypic.com%2F2pre6ns.jpg&hash=ba35d87d1f55b3c071d30ffafed88806955606f3)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi66.tinypic.com%2F2mg2ide.jpg&hash=c2487debb774a4723b229b8bc553c37449d1490c)
Nice, infected! 8)
I see different xeno's these with very nasty teeth.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi65.tinypic.com%2F242dc14.jpg&hash=8beb6cb2a85fedbc214f93c629d837cd2cfa1001)
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 25, 2017, 01:21:35 PM
I edited the image so you can see the details better. :)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FtQCjZP3.jpg&hash=c201bf2355c95a4f0e462f05e446f1117ab5da79)
::)
Anyway, I wonder if this will be the last poster. I thought they were going to do three posters in the style of the first two, but this one is very different so I don't know anymore.
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 26, 2017, 03:38:16 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 25, 2017, 01:21:35 PM
I edited the image so you can see the details better. :)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FtQCjZP3.jpg&hash=c201bf2355c95a4f0e462f05e446f1117ab5da79)
::)
Anyway, I wonder if this will be the last poster. I thought they were going to do three posters in the style of the first two, but this one is very different so I don't know anymore.
I'm betting one more. :)
Yep, I think so too. Maybe it'll be similar to the first one, but with a Neomorph instead of a Xenomorph.
Anyone know the artist responsible for the poster??
Quote from: SiL on Mar 26, 2017, 11:36:31 AM
The first film explicitly shows the Alien bleeding when hit by the harpoon gun. There was no contradiction in intention: you shoot the thing, it's shot. The end.
The film also explicitly shows the creature remaining physically intact when being hit by plasma blast from the engines of a spaceship, which obviously creates a logical contradiction with the harpoon scene. A contradiction that RS himself recognises, hence him feeling the need to explain what he would of done if he had the time and technology.
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 26, 2017, 03:38:16 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 25, 2017, 01:21:35 PM
I edited the image so you can see the details better. :)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FtQCjZP3.jpg&hash=c201bf2355c95a4f0e462f05e446f1117ab5da79)
::)
Anyway, I wonder if this will be the last poster. I thought they were going to do three posters in the style of the first two, but this one is very different so I don't know anymore.
I've wondered about that myself. Perhaps Hicks knows the answer?
I think we'll get an IMAX poster when we get closer to release.
Looks awesome
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 26, 2017, 03:45:57 PM
Yep, I think so too. Maybe it'll be similar to the first one, but with a Neomorph instead of a Xenomorph.
I think on the first poster it was Protomorph.
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Mar 26, 2017, 03:02:06 PM
DECODING THE ALIEN COVENANT POSTER IN COLOR!! . (By Gavin Singleton of scified)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alien-covenant.com%2Faliencovenant_uploads%2Fcolor_ac_poster.jpg&hash=8ae45eef4042e0796478a00b039a3bb55315a0df)
The legend for the colors used is as follows:
Quote
Yellow - Protomorphs (3)
Light Turquoise Blue - Xenomorphs (9)
Dark Blue - Engineers (4)
Purple - Trilobite (at least 1)
Red - Queen (at least 1)
Green - Facehuggers (2)
Quote Some have suggested that what I have identified as the Queens crown carapace may in actuality be the body of a Trilobite. I postulate that is instead both, as the body section of the Trilobites back shares some similar markings to that of the Queens crown carapace.
You will also notice that the three Protomorphs are shown almost unobstructed and unrestrained, whereas the numerous Xenomorphs seem to be overwhelmed, with only their heads visible among the mass. Most interesting are the four engineers, the three males of which are being subjugated, two by (differing) Facehuggers, and one by the Trilobite. The female engineer (the bosom/breast is too full to be male, the upper arm is less muscular and the hand is more feminine) is the only Engineer not being attacked, though like the other three Engineers her face is obscured.
The monochrome, untreated areas are where the mystery remains. Although there is an arm visible in the top left quadrant with an accompanying rib cage, whatever this figure is meant to be has been morphed into the surrounding mass. More interesting is the pelvic shaped mass above this arm and the inhuman mass beneath the lowermost Engineer.
As for the inferred meaning of all of this one can only speculate, as the best art even that which is memorial in nature is meant to be open to the interpretation of the audience. Even when the artist is clearly depicting something identifiable the best examples of art, especially renaissance pieces can be viewed from a different perspective.
My interpretation of this piece would be that the Engineers and Xenomorphs are being subjugated by the Trilobite with the Protomorphs rising from the chaos. The Queen/Trilobites crown being displayed top and center is possibly symbolizing said creatures position in the hierarchy of the hive mass depicted, possibly inferring that the Queen is closer related to the Protomorph than the classic Xenomorph.
http://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/43817 (http://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/43817)
Good work, I´ll give another view:
The red one is a original Space Jockey.
Quote from: bioweapon on Mar 26, 2017, 05:44:02 PM
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Mar 26, 2017, 03:02:06 PM
DECODING THE ALIEN COVENANT POSTER IN COLOR!! . (By Gavin Singleton of scified)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alien-covenant.com%2Faliencovenant_uploads%2Fcolor_ac_poster.jpg&hash=8ae45eef4042e0796478a00b039a3bb55315a0df)
The legend for the colors used is as follows:
Quote
Yellow - Protomorphs (3)
Light Turquoise Blue - Xenomorphs (9)
Dark Blue - Engineers (4)
Purple - Trilobite (at least 1)
Red - Queen (at least 1)
Green - Facehuggers (2)
Quote Some have suggested that what I have identified as the Queens crown carapace may in actuality be the body of a Trilobite. I postulate that is instead both, as the body section of the Trilobites back shares some similar markings to that of the Queens crown carapace.
You will also notice that the three Protomorphs are shown almost unobstructed and unrestrained, whereas the numerous Xenomorphs seem to be overwhelmed, with only their heads visible among the mass. Most interesting are the four engineers, the three males of which are being subjugated, two by (differing) Facehuggers, and one by the Trilobite. The female engineer (the bosom/breast is too full to be male, the upper arm is less muscular and the hand is more feminine) is the only Engineer not being attacked, though like the other three Engineers her face is obscured.
The monochrome, untreated areas are where the mystery remains. Although there is an arm visible in the top left quadrant with an accompanying rib cage, whatever this figure is meant to be has been morphed into the surrounding mass. More interesting is the pelvic shaped mass above this arm and the inhuman mass beneath the lowermost Engineer.
As for the inferred meaning of all of this one can only speculate, as the best art even that which is memorial in nature is meant to be open to the interpretation of the audience. Even when the artist is clearly depicting something identifiable the best examples of art, especially renaissance pieces can be viewed from a different perspective.
My interpretation of this piece would be that the Engineers and Xenomorphs are being subjugated by the Trilobite with the Protomorphs rising from the chaos. The Queen/Trilobites crown being displayed top and center is possibly symbolizing said creatures position in the hierarchy of the hive mass depicted, possibly inferring that the Queen is closer related to the Protomorph than the classic Xenomorph.
http://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/43817 (http://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/43817)
Good work, I´ll give another view:
The red one is a original Space Jockey.
So you are saying engineers are xenomorphs once they are facehugged, because they use the hosts.
So therefor the xeno is part bio mechanical because the engineer suits are also bio mechanical and that would explain the skull xenomorph, its all based on an engineer suit.
And the crest on top of the jockey is some kind of king queen suit and when its facehugged or morphed into a xeno it becomes an egg laying queen.
Im not saying its possible but in a weird way it could be the answer to it all, but wouldnt Ridey retcon every movie with this?
I'll give another view.
It's art. And its not representative.
Well, it's representative of alieny stuff.
That is not a female engineer... I highly doubt we will ever see any, if they even exist.
As cool as the poster is, it's also a bit of a letdown knowing it isn't indicative of the film it's advertising.
Quote from: Dangerous Days on Mar 26, 2017, 04:06:23 PM
Quote from: SiL on Mar 26, 2017, 11:36:31 AM
The first film explicitly shows the Alien bleeding when hit by the harpoon gun. There was no contradiction in intention: you shoot the thing, it's shot. The end.
The film also explicitly shows the creature remaining physically intact when being hit by plasma blast from the engines of a spaceship, which obviously creates a logical contradiction with the harpoon scene. A contradiction that RS himself recognises, hence him feeling the need to explain what he would of done if he had the time and technology.
We could see the alien surfing on solar flares but if it slips on its board and gets a boo boo, then it's not indestructible. As contradictory as that may be, an injury overrides the notion of indestructibility. To say otherwise is cherry picking and ignoring fact, plain and simple. This misconception negates key elements that helped make ALIEN so great in the first place (and dumbs it way down.)
I think it's a female engineer, or just a really buffed up male engineers. But I doubt that, because the other ones look skinnier. It would be really stupid if there are no female engineers. Wouldn't make any sense at all.
Quote from: Dangerous Days on Mar 26, 2017, 04:06:23 PM
The film also explicitly shows the creature remaining physically intact when being hit by plasma blast from the engines of a spaceship, which obviously creates a logical contradiction with the harpoon scene. A contradiction that RS himself recognises, hence him feeling the need to explain what he would of done if he had the time and technology.
Yup, as we all know, the ending wasnt originally planned and ridley had ridiculously short amount of time and budget to shoot it, and as we probably all know, he wanted the alien to explode when the engines hit it and storyboarded it that way,but there was no way a budget or time could allow that
Heres a great article on that - https://alienseries.wordpress.com/2012/10/20/mortal-after-all/
QuoteSo you are saying engineers are xenomorphs once they are facehugged, because they use the hosts.
So therefor the xeno is part bio mechanical because the engineer suits are also bio mechanical and that would explain the skull xenomorph, its all based on an engineer suit.
And the crest on top of the jockey is some kind of king queen suit and when its facehugged or morphed into a xeno it becomes an egg laying queen.
Im not saying its possible but in a weird way it could be the answer to it all, but wouldnt Ridey retcon every movie with this?
Dont know. I just saw similarities and the size reminded me of
Quote from: bioweapon on Mar 26, 2017, 08:27:17 PM
QuoteSo you are saying engineers are xenomorphs once they are facehugged, because they use the hosts.
So therefor the xeno is part bio mechanical because the engineer suits are also bio mechanical and that would explain the skull xenomorph, its all based on an engineer suit.
And the crest on top of the jockey is some kind of king queen suit and when its facehugged or morphed into a xeno it becomes an egg laying queen.
Im not saying its possible but in a weird way it could be the answer to it all, but wouldnt Ridey retcon every movie with this?
Dont know. I just saw similarities and the size reminded me of
Yes i know it cant be unseen that it looks a lot like the eyes of the original derelict jockey.
Quote from: zoidy on Mar 26, 2017, 07:16:37 PM
It's art. And its not representative.
It's pretty important to remember this too.
Quote from: Adorianu on Mar 26, 2017, 05:39:09 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 26, 2017, 03:45:57 PM
Yep, I think so too. Maybe it'll be similar to the first one, but with a Neomorph instead of a Xenomorph.
I think on the first poster it was Protomorph.
While yeah, I agree Covenant's Aliens are intended to be an in-between design, I don't think they're supposed to be some completely different creature. Just another variation of the Alien in the same way that the Runner is and Resurrection's mutants are. They were simply called the Aliens behind the scenes on Covenant.
Quote from: Nyarlathotep on Mar 26, 2017, 04:22:49 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 26, 2017, 03:38:16 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 25, 2017, 01:21:35 PM
I edited the image so you can see the details better. :)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FtQCjZP3.jpg&hash=c201bf2355c95a4f0e462f05e446f1117ab5da79)
::)
Anyway, I wonder if this will be the last poster. I thought they were going to do three posters in the style of the first two, but this one is very different so I don't know anymore.
I've wondered about that myself. Perhaps Hicks knows the answer?
I've no idea, I'm afraid.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 26, 2017, 09:21:48 PM
Quote from: zoidy on Mar 26, 2017, 07:16:37 PM
It's art. And its not representative.
It's pretty important to remember this too.
Quote from: Adorianu on Mar 26, 2017, 05:39:09 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 26, 2017, 03:45:57 PM
Yep, I think so too. Maybe it'll be similar to the first one, but with a Neomorph instead of a Xenomorph.
I think on the first poster it was Protomorph.
While yeah, I agree Covenant's Aliens are intended to be an in-between design, I don't think they're supposed to be some completely different creature. Just another variation of the Alien in the same way that the Runner is and Resurrection's mutants are. They were simply called the Aliens behind the scenes on Covenant.
Quote from: Nyarlathotep on Mar 26, 2017, 04:22:49 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 26, 2017, 03:38:16 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 25, 2017, 01:21:35 PM
I edited the image so you can see the details better. :)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FtQCjZP3.jpg&hash=c201bf2355c95a4f0e462f05e446f1117ab5da79)
::)
Anyway, I wonder if this will be the last poster. I thought they were going to do three posters in the style of the first two, but this one is very different so I don't know anymore.
I've wondered about that myself. Perhaps Hicks knows the answer?
I've no idea, I'm afraid.
Haven't heard those words in a long time. :laugh:
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 26, 2017, 09:21:48 PM
Quote from: zoidy on Mar 26, 2017, 07:16:37 PM
It's art. And its not representative.
It's pretty important to remember this too.
Quote from: Adorianu on Mar 26, 2017, 05:39:09 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 26, 2017, 03:45:57 PM
Yep, I think so too. Maybe it'll be similar to the first one, but with a Neomorph instead of a Xenomorph.
I think on the first poster it was Protomorph.
While yeah, I agree Covenant's Aliens are intended to be an in-between design, I don't think they're supposed to be some completely different creature. Just another variation of the Alien in the same way that the Runner is and Resurrection's mutants are. They were simply called the Aliens behind the scenes on Covenant.
Quote from: Nyarlathotep on Mar 26, 2017, 04:22:49 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 26, 2017, 03:38:16 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 25, 2017, 01:21:35 PM
I edited the image so you can see the details better. :)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FtQCjZP3.jpg&hash=c201bf2355c95a4f0e462f05e446f1117ab5da79)
::)
Anyway, I wonder if this will be the last poster. I thought they were going to do three posters in the style of the first two, but this one is very different so I don't know anymore.
I've wondered about that myself. Perhaps Hicks knows the answer?
I've no idea, I'm afraid.
Dammit Hicks, you are supposed to know these things. :laugh:
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 26, 2017, 07:53:26 PM
I think it's a female engineer, or just a really buffed up male engineers. But I doubt that, because the other ones look skinnier. It would be really stupid if there are no female engineers. Wouldn't make any sense at all.
On the blu-ray, they briefly show a document that Spaihts (?) prepared, which details the Engineers. One of the few things that can be read on the front page is that Engineers no longer reproduce asexually. I don't know if they kept that for the final film, however. I've sometimes wondered if the xenos themselves are the female Engineers, or something created to replace them. This might also explain why the last Engineer is fascinated by Shaw, although there are other possible explanations for that, too. Personally, I believe the lack of female Engineers is probably meaningful, I'm just not certain how.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.collider.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F03%2Falien-covenant-cinemacon-2.jpg&hash=88d7e07340b39c00803e61b7b8646a6ca8fa271e)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.collider.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F03%2Falien-covenant-cinemacon-1.jpg&hash=26f612239633e1a6f9478bfe84f2d01d680aead6)
http://collider.com/cinemacon-posters/
Awesome 8) :o
Holy moly! Hello new phone wallpaper! This is a really great Alien movie poster!
Nice!! 8)
So the poster scene is not something from the movie.
Ok, but it could be indication of something from the movie.
How could it be indicative of something from the movie? I mean, the film has aliens in it, for sure. The rest is art.
Quote from: zoidy on Mar 27, 2017, 11:07:16 AM
How could it be indicative of something from the movie? I mean, the film has aliens in it, for sure. The rest is art.
Not in a direct manner. Poster showed us the clash between xenos and engineers thats is a good indication to me.
It has that Paradise Lost vibe... which is also noteworthy! Move is an art too, dont forget that. You dont need to
see everything in the movie, but it could still be there!
It's an indication it's an alien movie.
Seriously. That's it.
Original Alien 79 poster. Where was the egg and the boney lattice floor in the movie? They weren't there, it was an evocative disturbing image that gave some sort of indication of the terrors to come - ie this movie wasn't going to be Star Wars - but it was not actually representative of the movie.
Alien Covenant's new poster is similarly representative - a return to the alien rather than broad scifi/horror of the last movie, and including a variety of stock alien tropes - facehuggers and humanoid presumably engineers, aliens of different types, and central to the image at the centre/left, a version of the wiry muscular Covenant alien we now know is in the film.
But the other stuff is artistic licence - I've said it right at the start of this thread - the various aliens in the image are copied by the artist from well known poses from art and posters and stills, and amalgamated into a new artwork. It's how much digital art is done.
The idea the image represents actual events or aliens we haven't seen ... nah.
Quote from: Predaker on Mar 26, 2017, 07:47:15 PM
Quote from: Dangerous Days on Mar 26, 2017, 04:06:23 PM
Quote from: SiL on Mar 26, 2017, 11:36:31 AM
The first film explicitly shows the Alien bleeding when hit by the harpoon gun. There was no contradiction in intention: you shoot the thing, it's shot. The end.
The film also explicitly shows the creature remaining physically intact when being hit by plasma blast from the engines of a spaceship, which obviously creates a logical contradiction with the harpoon scene. A contradiction that RS himself recognises, hence him feeling the need to explain what he would of done if he had the time and technology.
We could see the alien surfing on solar flares but if it slips on its board and gets a boo boo, then it's not indestructible. As contradictory as that may be, an injury overrides the notion of indestructibility. To say otherwise is cherry picking and ignoring fact, plain and simple. This misconception negates key elements that helped make ALIEN so great in the first place (and dumbs it way down.)
And I agree with you Predaker, but that's not the point I was making.
The point I was making, is that ALIEN is contradictory. If your going to have one scene showing a creature being damaged by a spear and then in the next scene show the same creature being blasted by the engines of a spacecraft and appearing to receive no physical damage, then that is inconsistent and contradictory. The 2nd scene is breaking the internal logic the 1st scene established; creating confusion and leaving itself open to interpretation. If ALIEN was consistent on this point, if the scene had been filmed as the script intended, then these debates, that have been raging over the internet for years, would of never have taken place. Going back to my original point, that people who draw these conclusions, do so, not just because their ill-informed, but because of a contradiction within the film itself.
And just to clarify, me saying I understand why people draw these conclusions is not the same as me saying I agree with their conclusions, a distinction, I feel you and a couple of others, who have now responded to me, have failed to make.
This all illustrates perfectly, why people getting too precious in their own interpretations of these movies, is a fools game. We our dealing with art, not science. There's going to be inconsistencies because artists often place expression ahead of logic.
My first post on this thread was meant to point out the flaws in the logic some were using in these arguments, while also being tongue in cheek; trying to emphasise the often playground mentality of my dad is bigger than your dad, that some ALIEN and ALIENS fans get involved in.
My second post, when I wrote:
'But as fans, I think we have to except that there are inconsistency's in the way the Alien is presented from film to film.' And trying to jump through hoops, desperately looking for continuity, is not going to resolve the issues.'
Was the main point I was trying to make in this debate.
The post that was mainly directed towards Xenomorphine, when I freely admit to misinterpreting your response to fernandito, was meant to express my personal preference to ALIEN over ALIENS and the reasons why I felt that way. But has somehow ended up with me being branded, with others, as a typical ALIEN fanboy, must be from imdb, does not understand the movie he claims to be a fan of, quick, grab the pitchforks and burn the infidel.
Now I get it, you long term members are probably sick to the back teeth of having to go through these same arguments time and time again; I don't blame you. But not every new member here, who expresses a preference to ALIEN over ALIENS, is doing so because they feel Cameron ruined the alien by turning it into a 'giant bug,' or arguing that the creature was always meant to be 'invincible.' Some of us actually have a preference on artistic grounds.
Now I'm sorry for the long-winded response and please don't take this as me trying to claim victimization, because that's not my intent. I'm just trying to clarify my points, so we don't end up in a circular argument, banging our heads against a brick wall.
Anyway, I've done exactly what I didn't want to do and hijack the thread... lol
Everyone of you is wrong and only that Predaker is right. You should know that by now.
You are not even allowed to come to your own conclusions or have your own idea about the first movie. Were you already 16-18-20 or even older years old when you went to see Alien to the cinema?. It won't make any difference! Predaker probably wasn't even appearing scheduled in his progenitor's future projects list when you were already sit there at your nearest theater watching the film, and still, you will be wrong when coming to your own conclusions.
Don't think by yourselves. Ask Predaker first
Quote from: Dangerous Days on Mar 26, 2017, 04:06:23 PM
The film also explicitly shows the creature remaining physically intact when being hit by plasma blast from the engines of a spaceship, which obviously creates a logical contradiction with the harpoon scene.
No it doesn't. Those are very different forces you're talking about and withstanding one doesn't indicate or contradict being able to withstand another.
Dangerous Days: For what it's worth, I don't think of you as a "typical fan boy who doesn't understand the film." No hard feelings? :)
fernandito: Your personal attack aside, I believe SM is the leading expert around here. ;D
Quote from: SiL on Mar 27, 2017, 12:58:08 PM
Quote from: Dangerous Days on Mar 26, 2017, 04:06:23 PM
The film also explicitly shows the creature remaining physically intact when being hit by plasma blast from the engines of a spaceship, which obviously creates a logical contradiction with the harpoon scene.
No it doesn't. Those are very different forces you're talking about and withstanding one doesn't indicate or contradict being able to withstand another.
::)
Quote from: Predaker on Mar 27, 2017, 01:07:01 PM
Dangerous Days: For what it's worth, I don't think of you as a "typical fan boy who doesn't understand the film." No hard feelings? :)
No hard feelings at all. :)
Things that can be pierced can be hard to break apart, tear, or crush. Things that can be easy to break apart or crush can be hard to pierce. They're very different physical forces. Susceptibility to one isn't much of an indication of the others.
And your dismissive eye roll doesn't change that.
Dangerous Days, I get what you are saying. I don't agree though. My opinion is that 'Aliens' Portrays the Alien just as formidable and intelligent as Big Chap, just in a different set of circumstances which cause different actions.
I have never viewed the creature to be indestructible when watching. Not even my first viewing at the age of 9, did I get this impression.
I'm not saying my opinion is any more valid than yours though dude.
I personally favour Alien over Aliens. Not that I can serperate them much though. Lol
Perhaps all this Big Chap vs Camerbugs should have it's on thread. Lol it keeps derailing the poster discussion.
Quote from: SiL on Mar 27, 2017, 01:30:14 PMThings that can be pierced can be hard to break apart, tear, or crush. Things that can be easy to break apart or crush can be hard to pierce. They're very different physical forces. Susceptibility to one isn't much of an indication of the others.
Exhibit A - Kevlar vests. Good at stopping bullets, not so great against knives.
Honestly it's better that the creature is not indestructible, insofar that it remains something like a credible, tangible creature bound by the physics of our universe, regardless of its more surrealistic (and down right cool) biological attributes; this makes you root for characters since there's always that chance of the creature's defeat - despite the abysmal odds - which propels suspense, unpredictability and catharsis. Of course, you could still argue that those things can still be achieved when characters simply survive the creature instead of eliminating it outright (indeed, Ripley casts the Queen into the abyss) but the genius of acid for blood presents an extra danger if it's destroyed.
Thus, when all of these elements are combined they make for great nightmare fuel and dynamic story telling.
Quote from: Russ840 on Mar 27, 2017, 01:30:38 PM
Dangerous Days, I get what you are saying. I don't agree though. My opinion is that 'Aliens' Portrays the Alien just as formidable and intelligent as Big Chap, just in a different set of circumstances which cause different actions.
I have never viewed the creature to be indestructible when watching. Not even my first viewing at the age of 9, did I get this impression.
I'm not saying my opinion is any more valid than yours though dude.
I personally favour Alien over Aliens. Not that I can serperate them much though. Lol
Perhaps all this Big Chap vs Camerbugs should have it's on thread. Lol it keeps derailing the poster discussion.
That's fine Russ840 we are all entitled to our own interpretations. But just to clarify, I don't subscribe to the notion that Big Chap is invincible; just very hard to kill.
I have no problem with bullets killing them either. I just felt like Weaver, they killed too many of them in ALIENS and took away some of their threat as a result.
And I'll say it again. The alien only felt truly alien to me in the first film, which is why I preferred RS's take.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 27, 2017, 01:58:40 PM
Quote from: SiL on Mar 27, 2017, 01:30:14 PMThings that can be pierced can be hard to break apart, tear, or crush. Things that can be easy to break apart or crush can be hard to pierce. They're very different physical forces. Susceptibility to one isn't much of an indication of the others.
Exhibit A - Kevlar vests. Good at stopping bullets, not so great against knives.
A Kevlar vest is not a complex organic life form. ;)
Quote from: Dangerous Days on Mar 27, 2017, 03:14:18 PMA Kevlar vest is not a complex organic life form. ;)
ssshh quiet!, it's just your..., misconception of things, was it?
My problem (if you can call it that) is not that a lot of aliens were killed in the film, but that a lot of those killings were played as jokes, or near jokes: the APC squash, Vasquez pinning one to the wall with her leg, Hudson's final 'monologue'. These were stand-up-and-cheer moments, which robs the alien of a lot of its power and menace.
Don't get me wrong, these moments are exactly right for the film that Cameron made. But it's quite a different vibe from the first movie!
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Mar 27, 2017, 03:58:33 PM
My problem (if you can call it that) is not that a lot of aliens were killed in the film, but that a lot of those killings were played as jokes, or near jokes: the APC squash, Vasquez pinning one to the wall with her leg, Hudson's final 'monologue'. These were stand-up-and-cheer moments, which robs the alien of a lot of its power and menace.
Don't get me wrong, these moments are exactly right for the film that Cameron made. But it's quite a different vibe from the first movie!
I'd agree with that. And whilst Aliens was the best possible sequel it, in a way, killed the franchise. There was nowhere else left to go.
Vázquez pinning one of them to the wall with the leg was the icing on the cake
Quote from: Darth Vile on Mar 27, 2017, 05:00:42 PM
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Mar 27, 2017, 03:58:33 PM
My problem (if you can call it that) is not that a lot of aliens were killed in the film, but that a lot of those killings were played as jokes, or near jokes: the APC squash, Vasquez pinning one to the wall with her leg, Hudson's final 'monologue'. These were stand-up-and-cheer moments, which robs the alien of a lot of its power and menace.
Don't get me wrong, these moments are exactly right for the film that Cameron made. But it's quite a different vibe from the first movie!
I'd agree with that. And whilst Aliens was the best possible sequel it, in a way, killed the franchise. There was nowhere else left to go.
Oh no you don't. Don't blame the masterpiece ALIENS for all the garbage that followed. The sky was the limit for the franchise at that point.
Quote from: BishopShouldGo on Mar 27, 2017, 05:31:15 PMThe sky was the limit for the franchise at that point.
Not really. The chances of them making another entry as good as the first two films were pretty much zero - as has been borne out by the fact they've never managed to do so in over 30 years.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 27, 2017, 05:50:26 PM
Quote from: BishopShouldGo on Mar 27, 2017, 05:31:15 PMThe sky was the limit for the franchise at that point.
Not really. The chances of them making another entry as good as the first two films were pretty much zero - as has been borne out by the fact they've never managed to do so in over 30 years.
On May 19th... That will all change. ;)
While I certainly hope Covenant is good, if it matches the first two films I'll be incredibly surprised.
I think it will.
And if people don't think so, it will be because of nostalgia for many of them. It's similar to when people put down Prometheus or The Martian, when those two films are just as good as Alien and Blade Runner... if not better.
mmh, these last comments as if alien3 ever existed. Misconception from my part again, perhaps
I mean by saying "garbage that followed", you folks are referring to resurrection, avp 1 and 2 and in a way Prometheus, but not to alien3, uh?
Quote from: Dangerous Days on Mar 26, 2017, 01:10:30 AM
The point I was trying to make, is you can understand why people have come to these conclusions over the years.
Honestly, I don't really understand how anyone who has payed attention to the film could come to such a conclusion without twisting it into something it is not. If someone just wants to believe the alien is literally indestructible then that's something else, but in my experience the people who actually argue this always assert it as a valid portrayal based on the film (which it clearly isn't.)
Quote from: Dangerous Days on Mar 27, 2017, 03:14:18 PM
The alien only felt truly alien to me in the first film, which is why I preferred RS's take.
Hard to argue with that! :laugh:
The derelict to the space jockey, the eggs, the facehugger, Kane's death, all building up to the first reveal of the alien with Brett's demise... pure gold.
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Mar 27, 2017, 05:53:06 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 27, 2017, 05:50:26 PM
Quote from: BishopShouldGo on Mar 27, 2017, 05:31:15 PMThe sky was the limit for the franchise at that point.
Not really. The chances of them making another entry as good as the first two films were pretty much zero - as has been borne out by the fact they've never managed to do so in over 30 years.
On May 19th... That will all change. ;)
I don't have such high hopes for Covenant, although I might enjoy it a bit more than Prometheus.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 27, 2017, 05:50:26 PM
Quote from: BishopShouldGo on Mar 27, 2017, 05:31:15 PMThe sky was the limit for the franchise at that point.
Not really. The chances of them making another entry as good as the first two films were pretty much zero - as has been borne out by the fact they've never managed to do so in over 30 years.
Just because... oh forget it. Not spending anymore mental capital on this.
Quote from: BishopShouldGo on Mar 27, 2017, 06:11:05 PMIt's similar to when people put down Prometheus or The Martian, when those two films are just as good as Alien and Blade Runner... if not better.
Prometheus better than
Blade Runner? :laugh:
So It wasn't misconception from my part. He said better than even alien too.
You better believe it.
i wasn't just prepared for dat 1
Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion lol.
The aliens are killing them real awesome.
Of course, but if there's no marines, pulse rifles, queens and alien warriors getting blasted away with slingshots then it is not an alien movie
Quote from: fernandito on Mar 27, 2017, 07:55:21 PM
Of course, but if there's no marines, pulse rifles, queens and alien warriors getting blasted away with slingshots then it is not an alien movie
Said no one ever
It's all about subtlety
Quote from: fernandito on Mar 27, 2017, 08:09:04 PM
It's all about subtlety
It's about hyperbole more.
There are very few "Aliens" fans here that aren't also "Alien" fans.
There is only the sequel. The first and the third movies are a misconception of the second
No hyperbole
Quote from: BishopShouldGo on Mar 27, 2017, 05:31:15 PM
Quote from: Darth Vile on Mar 27, 2017, 05:00:42 PM
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Mar 27, 2017, 03:58:33 PM
My problem (if you can call it that) is not that a lot of aliens were killed in the film, but that a lot of those killings were played as jokes, or near jokes: the APC squash, Vasquez pinning one to the wall with her leg, Hudson's final 'monologue'. These were stand-up-and-cheer moments, which robs the alien of a lot of its power and menace.
Don't get me wrong, these moments are exactly right for the film that Cameron made. But it's quite a different vibe from the first movie!
I'd agree with that. And whilst Aliens was the best possible sequel it, in a way, killed the franchise. There was nowhere else left to go.
Oh no you don't. Don't blame the masterpiece ALIENS for all the garbage that followed. The sky was the limit for the franchise at that point.
They kind of milked it dry by that point. Cameron did the same with The Terminator. It's not that they aren't great movies (Aliens and T2), because they are... it's just that (IMO), Cameron 'goes large' as is his nature as a filmmaker... the consequence being that direct sequels can only really go backwards (or inanely try to replicate the same thing). It was quite obvious, when first watching Aliens, that he'd blown the wad of any potential follow on. Ripley, as a character, had no where left to go (whilst acknowledging that Cameron gave Ripley some significant character development), and the xeno had hit the ceiling with the inclusion of the uber xeno AKA alien queen.
Lol so literal bigness backed the franchise in a corner? "Well what were they supposed to do, introduce an EVEN BIGGER QUEEN!?"
Don't worry about size, just keep telling engaging stories in this universe. Aliens wasn't even that big anyway, but even if it were soooo huge that shouldn't obstruct franchise progress. Ridiculous, ridiculous.
Tell the story of the space jockey! Have the aliens take over a planet. Show me Weyland Yutani corp. Have us on a futuristic Earth.
"Man, I'm not going to watch that Aliens sequel, there are two less aliens. SMALL!!!"
Suggesting that ALIENS somehow hampered or prevented any future films from being classics alongside the originals is a bit disingenuous.
Quote from: BishopShouldGo on Mar 27, 2017, 09:56:00 PM"Man, I'm not going to watch that Aliens sequel, there are two less aliens. SMALL!!!"
"We're gonna have the biggest aliens. The best aliens. Our aliens are gonna be so great your head'll spin. Everyone says so. They're gonna be YUGE!!!"
i love alien 3 (assembly). i just wish someone would go back and update the cgi. the cgi makes me pout :(
Meanwhile, back on topic, I wonder what the next poster will be. There's surely going to be at least one more. The posters that have been released already are among my favourite in the whole series. I really loved that first Covenant poster though. Its a tough call as to which I prefer between it and this one.
Quote from: Predaker on Mar 27, 2017, 10:19:33 PM
Suggesting that ALIENS somehow hampered or prevented any future films from being classics alongside the originals is a bit disingenuous.
The damage on the creature was indeed irreparable, and all just to make his own version of starship troopers, as he even admitted not too long ago
i agree that the way Aliens was set made it really difficult for future movies as a lot of mystery was removed from the being.
offcourse Aliens had some elements in it that could have been better, but that's with any movie, really.
There's a reason Aliens is regarded the best sequel to a movie almost ever, and in some regards is even seen as better than the original.
there was enough to work with though.
the problem is, Alien3 completely killed and destroyed that. there was so much to go for and all the worst were taken.
They never had to kill the crew. That would have been a base for so much more.
And as Ridley said, he never understood why they didnt look into it's origins. They could have went there with Alien3.
Where did it come from, why?
Ripley, Hicks, Bishop, Newy all waking up from reaching 'home base' and in discussion with Weyland Yutani chairmen.
Undermining what happened and being suspicious of Ripley's deeds and removing Hicks decorations and deactivating Bishop.
Bishop stating that they sent another vessel when discovering the nuclear explosion on 'acheron' and taking a batch of eggs
with them, having been frozen solid and brought to a space station for investigation.
Hicks suggesting they have to go there and stop what's going on before it's too late since they have no idea what they're doing.
You would get more or less the Alien Isolation story, which is an awesome story really.
They also would have brought material from the derelict and discover it had communicated to a specific planet when crashing,
opening the story for the origins story.
instead, they came with the most stupid ideas ever like a wooden planet with monks.
Quote from: freehugs on Mar 28, 2017, 04:09:48 AMi love alien 3 (assembly). i just wish someone would go back and update the cgi. the cgi makes me pout :(
The Alien in the third film wasn't CGI...
It surprises me that people
still think it was.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 28, 2017, 09:41:55 AM
Quote from: freehugs on Mar 28, 2017, 04:09:48 AMi love alien 3 (assembly). i just wish someone would go back and update the cgi. the cgi makes me pout :(
The Alien in the third film wasn't CGI...
It surprises me that people still think it was.
Well, the juxtaposition of the puppetry and the camera work in certain scenes gives off the effect of poor CGI. That's the confusion.
I guess.
Ironic that the one shot where it is CGI (in the theatrical cut) doesn't look too bad for the early 90s :laugh:
Exactly, some of the shots were puppets filmed in front of green screen and inserted into scenes, eg (I'm assuming) the horrible looking scene with the alien coming up to Ripley which absolutely looks like bad cgi.
From wikipedia: "The Alien is portrayed by both Woodruff, Jr. in a suit and a rod puppet filmed against bluescreen and optically composited into the live-action footage"
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Mar 26, 2017, 03:02:06 PM
DECODING THE ALIEN COVENANT POSTER IN COLOR!! . (By Gavin Singleton of scified)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alien-covenant.com%2Faliencovenant_uploads%2Fcolor_ac_poster.jpg&hash=8ae45eef4042e0796478a00b039a3bb55315a0df)
The legend for the colors used is as follows:
Quote
Yellow - Protomorphs (3)
Light Turquoise Blue - Xenomorphs (9)
Dark Blue - Engineers (4)
Purple - Trilobite (at least 1)
Red - Queen (at least 1)
Green - Facehuggers (2)
Quote Some have suggested that what I have identified as the Queens crown carapace may in actuality be the body of a Trilobite. I postulate that is instead both, as the body section of the Trilobites back shares some similar markings to that of the Queens crown carapace.
You will also notice that the three Protomorphs are shown almost unobstructed and unrestrained, whereas the numerous Xenomorphs seem to be overwhelmed, with only their heads visible among the mass. Most interesting are the four engineers, the three males of which are being subjugated, two by (differing) Facehuggers, and one by the Trilobite. The female engineer (the bosom/breast is too full to be male, the upper arm is less muscular and the hand is more feminine) is the only Engineer not being attacked, though like the other three Engineers her face is obscured.
The monochrome, untreated areas are where the mystery remains. Although there is an arm visible in the top left quadrant with an accompanying rib cage, whatever this figure is meant to be has been morphed into the surrounding mass. More interesting is the pelvic shaped mass above this arm and the inhuman mass beneath the lowermost Engineer.
As for the inferred meaning of all of this one can only speculate, as the best art even that which is memorial in nature is meant to be open to the interpretation of the audience. Even when the artist is clearly depicting something identifiable the best examples of art, especially renaissance pieces can be viewed from a different perspective.
My interpretation of this piece would be that the Engineers and Xenomorphs are being subjugated by the Trilobite with the Protomorphs rising from the chaos. The Queen/Trilobites crown being displayed top and center is possibly symbolizing said creatures position in the hierarchy of the hive mass depicted, possibly inferring that the Queen is closer related to the Protomorph than the classic Xenomorph.
http://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/43817 (http://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/43817)
Makes sense.
Queen > Trilobite > Protomorphs/Neomorphs > Xenomorphs (Which I believe to be tampered by David).
What if Alien ends up becoming a robot apocalypse sci-fi genre? Creator vs Created. Synthetics vs Organics. David vs Humans. Alien vs Humans. Basically, David the synthetic tampers with the xenomorph to create a biomechnical version of it to destroy his creator, mankind. Remember that Ridley Scott is responsible for both Alien and BLade Runner. He might link both of them in the same universe.
Quote from: cliffhanger on Mar 28, 2017, 07:35:38 AMthe problem is, Alien3 completely killed and destroyed that. there was so much to go for and all the worst were taken. They never had to kill the crew.
You have to understand that it is a very difficult task, bordering act of faith to begin a conversation as to why Alien 3 was better or worse, while having such statement as the one and only starting point for debate.
Simply put, It's very difficult to take the argument any seriously as it kinda mirrors a child's beguilement
Quote from: cliffhanger on Mar 28, 2017, 07:35:38 AMthe problem is, Alien3 completely killed and destroyed that. there was so much to go for and all the worst were taken.
They never had to kill the crew. That would have been a base for so much more.
For everyone who is bitter that they killed Hicks and Newt, there's someone who finds the idea of the three of them going around as some kind of Alien ass-kicking family really cringe-worthy.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 28, 2017, 11:51:05 AM
Quote from: cliffhanger on Mar 28, 2017, 07:35:38 AMthe problem is, Alien3 completely killed and destroyed that. there was so much to go for and all the worst were taken.
They never had to kill the crew. That would have been a base for so much more.
For everyone who is bitter that they killed Hicks and Newt, there's someone who finds the idea of the three of them going around as some kind of Alien ass-kicking family really cringe-worthy.
Yup. Killing them was a bit excessive maybe, but the thought of the same group visiting the homeplanet or some sht like that is fcking terribad. :P
Rather see them back with cameo's etc, give em a nice spot on Gateway..adopt Newt... and hump a few more. Then after a few origin movies let Covenants Neomorphs destroy Gateway, kill Newt and Hicks and start a new forum on the internet were everyone can btch about it.
Aternative dimension created! BOOOM!
Quote from: fernandito on Mar 28, 2017, 07:00:44 AM
Quote from: Predaker on Mar 27, 2017, 10:19:33 PM
Suggesting that ALIENS somehow hampered or prevented any future films from being classics alongside the originals is a bit disingenuous.
The damage on the creature was indeed irreparable, and all just to make his own version of starship troopers, as he even admitted not too long ago
What damage are you specifically referring to and how was it irreparable?
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 28, 2017, 11:51:05 AM
Quote from: cliffhanger on Mar 28, 2017, 07:35:38 AMthe problem is, Alien3 completely killed and destroyed that. there was so much to go for and all the worst were taken.
They never had to kill the crew. That would have been a base for so much more.
For everyone who is bitter that they killed Hicks and Newt, there's someone who finds the idea of the three of them going around as some kind of Alien ass-kicking family really cringe-worthy.
Personally I took it in stride when Hicks and Newt died, but keeping them alive wouldn't automatically lead to Lost in Space with Aliens.
No, my point was more that their survival wouldn't necessarily have led to better films.
The problem I've always had with Alien 3 isn't that Newt and Hicks died. If I want to see them alive, I can just pop in Aliens and watch it again. My issue with A3 is that it has all the emotional maturity of an angsty teenager's livejournal account.
My reason for wanting this movie to be awesome? It's a very selfish one.
I want to come back here and dissect and discuss the film for a long time and I want as many of you guys to be happy as I hope to be :)
Quote from: SiL on Mar 27, 2017, 01:30:14 PM
Things that can be pierced can be hard to break apart, tear, or crush. Things that can be easy to break apart or crush can be hard to pierce. They're very different physical forces. Susceptibility to one isn't much of an indication of the others.
And your dismissive eye roll doesn't change that.
To be fair SiL, you do make a valid point. But logic dictates, at least to me, that if the alien's exoskeleton can withstand a blast from the thrusters of a spaceship, considering the extreme forces involved, different as they maybe, then a spear should present little problem.
Quote from: fernandito on Mar 27, 2017, 03:34:30 PM
Quote from: Dangerous Days on Mar 27, 2017, 03:14:18 PMA Kevlar vest is not a complex organic life form. ;)
ssshh quiet!, it's just your..., misconception of things, was it?
:laugh:
Quote from: Predaker on Mar 27, 2017, 06:12:29 PM
Hard to argue with that! :laugh:
The derelict to the space jockey, the eggs, the facehugger, Kane's death, all building up to the first reveal of the alien with Brett's demise... pure gold.
You disappoint me Predaker. If your going to start to agree with me, then where's the fun in that? :laugh:
Quote from: Dangerous Days on Mar 28, 2017, 05:10:50 PMBut logic dictates, at least to me, that if the alien's exoskeleton can withstand a blast from the thrusters of a spaceship, considering the extreme forces involved, different as they maybe, then a spear should present little problem.
Logic doesn't dictate that at all.
Who says future spaceship thrusters are even that hot? They wouldn't need to be, the only reason rocket engines are hot now is because of the fuel we use. Relatively thin plate steel would protect you from moderate heat for a few seconds (certainly as long as the Alien is in the exhaust stream in the film), but an armour-piercing bullet will go straight through it.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 28, 2017, 05:21:24 PM
Quote from: Dangerous Days on Mar 28, 2017, 05:10:50 PMBut logic dictates, at least to me, that if the alien's exoskeleton can withstand a blast from the thrusters of a spaceship, considering the extreme forces involved, different as they maybe, then a spear should present little problem.
Logic doesn't dictate that at all.
Who says future spaceship thrusters are even that hot? They wouldn't need to be, the only reason rocket engines are hot now is because of the fuel we use. Relatively thin plate steel would protect you from moderate heat for a few seconds (certainly as long as the Alien is in the exhaust stream in the film), but an armour-piercing bullet will go straight through it.
I believe they were supposed to be plasma. At least according to RS.
In the script the thrusters were supposed to incinerate the alien. So yes, they were supposed to be pretty hot.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 28, 2017, 09:41:55 AM
Quote from: freehugs on Mar 28, 2017, 04:09:48 AMi love alien 3 (assembly). i just wish someone would go back and update the cgi. the cgi makes me pout :(
The Alien in the third film wasn't CGI...
It surprises me that people still think it was.
i apologize for my over-generalization - i know they used puppets and practical effects (which were interesting on their own) - but you missed the point. the
digital trickery used to sew their puppets into the movie left much to be desired. the lighting was wrong, it looked green-screened, and interrupted the viewing experience. and the fact that so many "people
still think" it's cgi is my point: it doesn't look real, and i wish someone would fix that, because the movie has a lot to offer.
that is all. carry on 8)
Quote from: freehugs on Mar 28, 2017, 06:07:15 PMi apologize for my over-generalization - i know they used puppets and practical effects (which were interesting on their own) - but you missed the point. the digital trickery used to sew their puppets into the movie left much to be desired.
That wasn't digital either. It was composited optically, the old-fashioned way. The only thing done digitally was its shadow, and that isn't really what makes it look awful.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 28, 2017, 11:51:05 AM
Quote from: cliffhanger on Mar 28, 2017, 07:35:38 AMthe problem is, Alien3 completely killed and destroyed that. there was so much to go for and all the worst were taken.
They never had to kill the crew. That would have been a base for so much more.
For everyone who is bitter that they killed Hicks and Newt, there's someone who finds the idea of the three of them going around as some kind of Alien ass-kicking family really cringe-worthy.
wanting them to survive in Alien3 does not equal wanting to see them as a Alien asskick family at all.
As i mentioned above, i didn't mention Newt at all except for her survival.
As far as i'm concerned, she should have been taken into temporal custody in a safe haven with her family,
there's a easy (cheap) solution to have her have uncles and aunts and nephews and that they would gladly take care of her,
with Ripley promising she'll come back soon, a promise she can't keep.....
Ripley not being able to allow a space station with many families to get the same aftermath as Hadley's hope colony to happen,
and Hicks backing her up in her plan to infiltrate the compound and put an end to what's going on there, and mayhem already haven
started when they arrive.
As far as i'm concerned, either Hicks or Ripley could have died during those events. Hicks sacrificing himself to save Ripley for example.
Or at the end Ripley gets facehugged and Hicks promises he'll protect her and cryo her in and will take her to scientists he knows that
can help her, so she doesn't kill herself. It would actually make Resurection still possible somehow.
Thing is, Ripley already turned into the 'space alien warrior' and we have had zero problems with Weavers portrayal in every single outing,
so i dont think that would be a huge issue. Hicks grew into a heroic character during the events of Aliens and simply got hurt, he could
put a great performance in being a slightly handicapped hero.
Ripley was hardly badass in Alien, she became a absolute badass in Aliens. Hicks was a great marine in Aliens, he could have become
absolutely legend in Alien3.
again, there were so many possibilities to go with Alien3. Unfortunately, Hicks and Ripley are too old now to continue where they left off and turn Alien3 in a nightmare instead of canon.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 28, 2017, 05:21:24 PMLogic doesn't dictate that at all.
Who says future spaceship thrusters are even that hot? They wouldn't need to be,
hahah ok whatever it takes man
all aboard the roflcopter folks.
We are airborne!!
Quote from: fernandito on Mar 28, 2017, 08:24:11 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 28, 2017, 05:21:24 PMLogic doesn't dictate that at all.
Who says future spaceship thrusters are even that hot? They wouldn't need to be,
hahah ok whatever it takes man
all aboard the roflcopter folks.
We are airborne!!
Maybe the acid blood that sprayed all over the place from the puncture wound in its chest provided a temporary protective coating. :D
Quote from: Dangerous Days on Mar 28, 2017, 05:37:08 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 28, 2017, 05:21:24 PM
Quote from: Dangerous Days on Mar 28, 2017, 05:10:50 PMBut logic dictates, at least to me, that if the alien's exoskeleton can withstand a blast from the thrusters of a spaceship, considering the extreme forces involved, different as they maybe, then a spear should present little problem.
Logic doesn't dictate that at all.
Who says future spaceship thrusters are even that hot? They wouldn't need to be, the only reason rocket engines are hot now is because of the fuel we use. Relatively thin plate steel would protect you from moderate heat for a few seconds (certainly as long as the Alien is in the exhaust stream in the film), but an armour-piercing bullet will go straight through it.
I believe they were supposed to be plasma. At least according to RS.
In the script the thrusters were supposed to incinerate the alien. So yes, they were supposed to be pretty hot.
Yeah they're suppose to be hot and they are suppose to incinerate the alien. Apparently since neither is shown on film in detail it didnt happen at least to some.
Quote from: fernandito on Mar 28, 2017, 08:24:11 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 28, 2017, 05:21:24 PMLogic doesn't dictate that at all.
Who says future spaceship thrusters are even that hot? They wouldn't need to be,
hahah ok whatever it takes man
all aboard the roflcopter folks.
We are airborne!!
He is quite right, there are forms of propulsion that don't require heat. I believe one example is an Ion Drive, which we already have today.
Hey guys, I was wondering what these areas were.
The red area looks like something with an eye? (perhaps the thing subjugated in the Prometheus Mural?)
Also, what is that in the green area? Looks like some weird growth from the Alien head...
(unsure of how to post an image, so attached the file!)
Quote from: Predaker on Mar 28, 2017, 08:49:48 PM
Quote from: fernandito on Mar 28, 2017, 08:24:11 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 28, 2017, 05:21:24 PMLogic doesn't dictate that at all.
Who says future spaceship thrusters are even that hot? They wouldn't need to be,
hahah ok whatever it takes man
all aboard the roflcopter folks.
We are airborne!!
Maybe the acid blood that sprayed all over the place from the puncture wound in its chest provided a temporary protective coating. :D
Big Chap is still alive I tell you! The engines gave him a nice little push and he floated back to David's secret base under LV-426 to report his findings on cats, ladies underwear and sharp objects, which bloody well hurt!... Plasma engines are fun though; give you a nice little tickle. :laugh:
I blame it all on RS's 1999 directors commentary myself. Talking about the alien being invincible and perfect when commenting on Ash's speech, gave a good fanning to the flames of misconception.
Got to love good old Ridley.
I always get a good laugh out of these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIJgJ8919J8&list=PLNet5r3MhTpHVKwmoVafl_DqnxEpJgbhw&index=16
Quote from: 426Buddy on Mar 28, 2017, 08:55:15 PM
Yeah they're suppose to be hot and they are suppose to incinerate the alien. Apparently since neither is shown on film in detail it didnt happen at least to some.
And people complain about cgi... But if there had been cgi in 1979, you would not have this argument now.
Scott's Best Of Prometheus is f**king amazing. I can't wait for his Covenant commentary.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 28, 2017, 06:11:42 PM
Quote from: freehugs on Mar 28, 2017, 06:07:15 PMi apologize for my over-generalization - i know they used puppets and practical effects (which were interesting on their own) - but you missed the point. the digital trickery used to sew their puppets into the movie left much to be desired.
That wasn't digital either. It was composited optically, the old-fashioned way. The only thing done digitally was its shadow, and that isn't really what makes it look awful.
*sigh* still not the point... however they did it, the
digital trickery used to sew their puppets into the movie left much to be desired. i'd just love to see the shots of the alien running/on the ceiling/approaching ripley touched up one day.
Quote from: freehugs on Mar 29, 2017, 12:39:50 AM*sigh* still not the point...
It sort of is when you say "i just wish someone would go back and update the cgi" :P Because there's hardly any CGI to update and what little there is looks OK.
But yeah, the rod puppet compositing looks really bad today. A shame because the behind the scenes footage of the puppet being filmed show that it was beautifully made and animated. They just screwed up editing it into the film.
Quote from: Anthony on Mar 28, 2017, 11:47:06 PM
Scott's Best Of Prometheus is f**king amazing. I can't wait for his Covenant commentary.
Unfortunately, the Prometheus one has been blocked by FOX because of copyright.
The Duellists and The Martian ones are great as well. Love the running joke about his commercials. 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500 commercials. LOL
Quote from: fernandito on Mar 28, 2017, 08:24:11 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 28, 2017, 05:21:24 PMLogic doesn't dictate that at all.
Who says future spaceship thrusters are even that hot? They wouldn't need to be,
hahah ok whatever it takes man
all aboard the roflcopter folks.
We are airborne!!
You need to take a step back and chill out with the condescending attitude. If your intent here to just to slag off fellow fans for differing opinions and you're unable to maintain a reasoned and mature discussion over the subject, you're better off not participating at all.
https://twitter.com/PrometheusFilms/status/846870245805580292 (https://twitter.com/PrometheusFilms/status/846870245805580292)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8Cv_kbXUAU2N1Q.jpg)
QuoteYou can't run. You can't hide. You can only scream... And die
It's just another Scified thing.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 29, 2017, 10:50:00 AM
It's just another Scified thing.
Yeah i know, but i was thinking looking at that maybe there will be a third one and piece together like a puzzle???
While it may be fake, I like the idea of "die" as the final teaser poster tagline!
"Run, hide, die."
Isn't that what directors of slasher movies tell their actors? ;D
everyone just needs to chill out and realize that it is an Alien queen Crest 😂
Its very Renaissance / Underworld painting. Very that. Its also very reminiscent of Alien Resurrection when Ripley gets pulled down via osmosis through a writhing mass of Xenos and appendages until she reaches the lair where the abomination hybrid creature is birthed.
I like it, but its also quite disturbing (perhaps because of the renaissance / underworld theme)
Guess what I've got a bunch of on the way to me to do another competition with? :P
Weeeeeeeeeeee more posters
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 03, 2017, 11:39:09 AM
Guess what I've got a bunch of on the way to me to do another competition with? :P
Oh gosh I'm definitely going to try again even though I already won one of the last ones lol ;D
Not sure if the wife will let me hang anymore posters, need a room just for my alien stuff now lol.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 03, 2017, 11:39:09 AM
Guess what I've got a bunch of on the way to me to do another competition with? :P
Which ones?? The Mural one??
Yeah, this specific poster. :)
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 03, 2017, 01:10:55 PM
Yeah, this specific poster. :)
This time i will try for that one. Thanks 8)
Ooh, yeah, if it's the mural one I might enter this time around!
Nice! I hope it's not of Facebook, though.
I've not decided what this one is going to be just yet.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 03, 2017, 01:36:41 PM
I've not decided what this one is going to be just yet.
I m in the game. ;D
Quote from: 426Buddy on Apr 03, 2017, 12:50:59 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 03, 2017, 11:39:09 AM
Guess what I've got a bunch of on the way to me to do another competition with? :P
Oh gosh I'm definitely going to try again even though I already won one of the last ones lol ;D
Not sure if the wife will let me hang anymore posters, need a room just for my alien stuff now lol.
Damn you lol.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 03, 2017, 01:36:41 PM
I've not decided what this one is going to be just yet.
Please consider doing it on this site.
Quote from: Protozoid on Mar 25, 2017, 02:07:57 AM
Gorgeous. Poster of the year? I'm glad to see there is finally something excellent happening in the marketing department.
Hi Proto!
The Poster is really impressive. But at the end, its a pure Xeno movie. All those trailers & teasers are simply promoting the bug and all we see is the traditional survival story in the midst of creatures attacking people. A few variations from Xenomorphs to Neomorphs and from Chestburster to Backburster are the only few innovative ideas it seems. A one step short-cut by having spores directly giving birth to a Neomorph and undermining the classical Xeno-lifecycle is something that's spinning off my head.
I remember I disagreed with you. You were right. Going by the spoiler leaks, Alien: Covenant is going away from that something which made the grand universe of 'Prometheus'. Its really disappointing.
I am not at all impressed with the costumes, spaceship designs & even the visuals. Just compare any A:C screenshots with screenshots of Prometheus. Prometheus was RICH. I mean, I can't even stand the costumes the Covenant crews are wearing and coming out of the drop ship, and with that hat Walter is wearing; all of them without helmets wandering in an uncharted planet. I mean, if Prometheus was ripped apart just because the crews removed their helmet inside the pyramid, I wonder would there be people bashing A:C for what it is? I am sure, there will be some reason established in the movie for the crews not deciding to wear helmets, but finally it will be just a ploy to have spores thing work!
Spoiler
David killing the Engineers/humans and getting obsessed with creating perfect killing machine and stuffs like that kind'a looks quite mediocre. David and Shaw are rich characters and some altogether different & exciting things could have thought about.
I am not having high expectations, which in one way is good, if the film turns out to a surprise and holds the DNA & quality of Prometheus.
*Added spoiler tags. Hicks.
The_Foxcatcher, you might want to consider spoiler tags for that second to last paragraph... the thread title doesn't mention spoilers here.