In all the films and at least the games I have played, he is the only Predator to wield those mounted arm blades but he never gets to use them. I wish they could have been seen in action.
The skulls are a nice touch. I don't need to know how he got them but the one Predator who literally displays his enthusiasm for hunting humans has the lowest body count. Just exists to go out like the biggest chump to make Grid xeno look good.
It's kind of funny that AVP is made by a director who obviously loves the Xenos a lot more while Requiem is made by Predator fanboys. The end result always makes one species look bad.
I don't agree. First AvP was balanced, as much as it could have been.
Knocking off two Predators back to back after 55 minutes of waiting was such a disappointing way to get started. And then the film ended 30 minutes later.
The worst part about all of that was that we didn't get to see every Predator in action. We know they did things on the surface but it's a little hard to tell who gets what kill. And frankly the kills are a little too close. The Celtic fight is awesome but the fight or at least Celtic's death should've been spaced a bit farther.
I'm not against Predators dying (multiple monsters is clearly setting up a body count) but we need to have them do something beforehand. Like you have these cool arm blades and we only get to see them for a hot second in the flashback. And frankly if he was to be the first Predator kill then at the least he needed to have been more prominent in fighting the human characters. At least with Hunting Grounds maybe they could say his equivalent solo continuity version is alive so we can see the blades in action. It's really a waste of a cool character design.
This was me in the theaters during the whole first encounter with the Predators and Aliens.
(https://i.imgflip.com/2mju8n.jpg)
We're all there with you in spirit man.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 04, 2021, 08:14:02 PM
Knocking off two Predators back to back after 55 minutes of waiting was such a disappointing way to get started. And then the film ended 30 minutes later.
I think I'm getting older but my favorite part of AvP nowadays is this whole setup before first A/P encounter. I love whole first part of the movie and generally believe second half is much weaker even though have much more monster action.
Quote from: Master on Nov 06, 2021, 05:58:57 PM
I think I'm getting older but my favorite part of AvP nowadays is this whole setup before first A/P encounter. I love whole first part of the movie and generally believe second half is much weaker even though have much more monster action.
Agreed. In fact I'd say it has a solid first two acts, and really only falters in the third, which feels rushed and overly reliant on suits that don't hold up to the level of exposure they're given. The fight with the queen on the surface redeems it somewhat though.
I've never been troubled by how quickly the first two predators bit the dust either. This was their first encounter with the aliens, and between having their shoulder cannons stolen and the usual measure of arrogance in their behaviour, the odds were against them. If things went too far the other way the aliens would be reduced to fodder, which is also not a good thing. Scar demonstrated how well a predator can hold its own against a hive when it keeps it wits about it (opportunistic facehugging aside).
The idea that the design is somehow "wasted" is nonsense anyway. Future instalments are free to reuse the mask and/or arm blades and use them however they like.
Quote from: The Necronoir on Nov 07, 2021, 04:17:38 AM
The idea that the design is somehow "wasted" is nonsense anyway. Future instalments are free to reuse the mask and/or arm blades and use them however they like.
Fine I'll rephrase it. Considering he had cool weapons not previously seen on Predators before, it is disappointing the Chopper Predator did not partake in any action sequences during the film.
Is that less nonsense for you?
Quote from: Master on Nov 06, 2021, 05:58:57 PM
Quote from: SiL on Nov 04, 2021, 08:14:02 PM
Knocking off two Predators back to back after 55 minutes of waiting was such a disappointing way to get started. And then the film ended 30 minutes later.
I think I'm getting older but my favorite part of AvP nowadays is this whole setup before first A/P encounter. I love whole first part of the movie and generally believe second half is much weaker even though have much more monster action.
When you put it that way, the first hall of AVP is good, has mystery and intrigue. Predators on an unknown mission, ancient pyramids hiding Xeno Queens. Then the action actually begins and it's all downhill.
Same thing with Predators. The best part of the movie is the set up to finding out they're on an alien planet and the appearance of the Predators. Once they actually show up followed by Morpheus, the film declines from there.
I find the first two thirds of AvP drag their feet on scenes of exposition that don't actually move the story forward, character scenes that don't actually develop characters, or pointless fakeouts. It's Anderson confusing taking a long time with building tension.
Quote from: ChanceVance on Nov 07, 2021, 11:31:08 AM
Quote from: The Necronoir on Nov 07, 2021, 04:17:38 AM
The idea that the design is somehow "wasted" is nonsense anyway. Future instalments are free to reuse the mask and/or arm blades and use them however they like.
Fine I'll rephrase it. Considering he had cool weapons not previously seen on Predators before, it is disappointing the Chopper Predator did not partake in any action sequences during the film.
Is that less nonsense for you?
Yes, wasted opportunity. Not a wasted design
yet, though it's definitely potential that hasn't been put to use.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 07, 2021, 11:59:28 AM
I find the first two thirds of AvP drag their feet on scenes of exposition that don't actually move the story forward, character scenes that don't actually develop characters, or pointless fakeouts. It's Anderson confusing taking a long time with building tension.
I'm inclined to cut him some slack. He plays with our expectations as the audience, definitely. He's also burdened somewhat with getting the characters to a point where they can believably grasp exactly what they've gotten themselves into, while we as the audience know most of it from the title. It might come across as tedious, but then we have
Prometheus to show what happens when you don't pay any heed to organic character development. I'd argue that
AVP achieves more interesting characterisation with essentially the same premise and plot beats.
Quote from: ChanceVance on Nov 07, 2021, 11:31:08 AM
Quote from: The Necronoir on Nov 07, 2021, 04:17:38 AM
The idea that the design is somehow "wasted" is nonsense anyway. Future instalments are free to reuse the mask and/or arm blades and use them however they like.
Fine I'll rephrase it. Considering he had cool weapons not previously seen on Predators before, it is disappointing the Chopper Predator did not partake in any action sequences during the film.
Is that less nonsense for you?
Quote from: Master on Nov 06, 2021, 05:58:57 PM
Quote from: SiL on Nov 04, 2021, 08:14:02 PM
Knocking off two Predators back to back after 55 minutes of waiting was such a disappointing way to get started. And then the film ended 30 minutes later.
I think I'm getting older but my favorite part of AvP nowadays is this whole setup before first A/P encounter. I love whole first part of the movie and generally believe second half is much weaker even though have much more monster action.
When you put it that way, the first hall of AVP is good, has mystery and intrigue. Predators on an unknown mission, ancient pyramids hiding Xeno Queens. Then the action actually begins and it's all downhill.
Same thing with Predators. The best part of the movie is the set up to finding out they're on an alien planet and the appearance of the Predators. Once they actually show up followed by Morpheus, the film declines from there.
Yes! Yes, my thoughts exactly. After hunting camp the film significantly loses it's footing.
Quote from: The Necronoir on Nov 07, 2021, 02:18:52 PM
I'm inclined to cut him some slack. He plays with our expectations as the audience, definitely. He's also burdened somewhat with getting the characters to a point where they can believably grasp exactly what they've gotten themselves into, while we as the audience know most of it from the title. It might come across as tedious, but then we have Prometheus to show what happens when you don't pay any heed to organic character development. I'd argue that AVP achieves more interesting characterisation with essentially the same premise and plot beats.
There's nothing terribly realistic or organic about AvP's characters (and this is the first time in 17 years I've seen anyone call them interesting). The problem is they
don't develop despite spending almost an hour with them.
The plot sort of just happens to them and they have an epiphany and move on. Most characters are exactly the same when they die as when we meet them, with no greater understanding of them in between. Weyland is the only person we get anything resembling depth with.
It's 55 minutes of time spent going ultimately nowhere.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 07, 2021, 08:01:27 PM
Quote from: The Necronoir on Nov 07, 2021, 02:18:52 PM
I'm inclined to cut him some slack. He plays with our expectations as the audience, definitely. He's also burdened somewhat with getting the characters to a point where they can believably grasp exactly what they've gotten themselves into, while we as the audience know most of it from the title. It might come across as tedious, but then we have Prometheus to show what happens when you don't pay any heed to organic character development. I'd argue that AVP achieves more interesting characterisation with essentially the same premise and plot beats.
There's nothing terribly realistic or organic about AvP's characters (and this is the first time in 17 years I've seen anyone call them interesting). The problem is they don't develop despite spending almost an hour with them.
The plot sort of just happens to them and they have an epiphany and move on. Most characters are exactly the same when they die as when we meet them, with no greater understanding of them in between. Weyland is the only person we get anything resembling depth with.
It's 55 minutes of time spent going ultimately nowhere.
What about the character with the picture of his kids? :P
So memorable you can't remember his name :laugh:
Miller gets his moment to show he's not a complete wimp, sure. But that comes after the shit hits the fan.
And two out of however many characters ain't great :laugh:
Me and you had this exact discussion about Verheiden being potentially interesting ages ago.
Verheiden and Miller could've been interesting, but their antagonism was childish and they die pretty soon after they get any sort of development.
The most frustrating thing about AvP is it's very easy to see why it was made based on its ideas, but the execution is just not there.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 07, 2021, 08:01:27 PM
Quote from: The Necronoir on Nov 07, 2021, 02:18:52 PM
I'm inclined to cut him some slack. He plays with our expectations as the audience, definitely. He's also burdened somewhat with getting the characters to a point where they can believably grasp exactly what they've gotten themselves into, while we as the audience know most of it from the title. It might come across as tedious, but then we have Prometheus to show what happens when you don't pay any heed to organic character development. I'd argue that AVP achieves more interesting characterisation with essentially the same premise and plot beats.
There's nothing terribly realistic or organic about AvP's characters (and this is the first time in 17 years I've seen anyone call them interesting). The problem is they don't develop despite spending almost an hour with them.
The plot sort of just happens to them and they have an epiphany and move on. Most characters are exactly the same when they die as when we meet them, with no greater understanding of them in between. Weyland is the only person we get anything resembling depth with.
It's 55 minutes of time spent going ultimately nowhere.
Not saying they have fully-fledged character arcs (except for Lex and Weyland), just that they're given at least enough individuality to ground their reactions to the scenario in some believability. As you say, some of them (like Miller) even defy what we're lead to believe about them to some extent, which gives them at least a semblance of depth.
I'm really only saying this in comparison to
Prometheus though, so the bar is set very low. Charles Weyland, in particular, throws at least an interesting spin on the egomaniacal billionaire archetype, where Peter Weyland just leans right into the same old tired tropes.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 08, 2021, 04:05:29 AM
The most frustrating thing about AvP is it's very easy to see why it was made based on its ideas, but the execution is just not there.
Agreed. Overall, it's schlocky, but that comes with the territory when you're talking about versus movies. I'd take schlock with grand aspirations over outright schlock like
AVP-R any day.
I still rate that first scene in Covenant for giving me a way more interesting Peter Weyland than half the characters in the entire film anthology.
Y'all just made me sad that we don't have enough Weyland of either continuity anymore. I think it was Ridgetop that posted it somewhere but the audio log from AVP 2010 did make me appreciate they went somewhere with that version of the character. In the grand scheme of things for that continuity I think I can appreciate Chopper and Celtic getting wrecked as early as they did for the impact it had on Weyland even if his descendants don't have any context to how Weyland died. Maybe even having some foreshadowing to the companies' obsession with the Alien given his reaction to the fight with Celtic. Maybe he saw something he liked?
I don't know. Thinking about it now I'm kind of split on it even if I would've liked to see Chopper get his own fight scene.
My only complaint with Chopper is his armor was not bulky enough.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Nov 08, 2021, 03:00:41 PM
My only complaint with Chopper is his armor was not bulky enough.
I like the lighter look actually.
Also the Prodos sculpt was kino:
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4bcsQaiQqsc/maxresdefault.jpg)
My remix of that figure:
(https://i.imgur.com/2TGBeQF.jpg)
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 08, 2021, 08:46:56 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Nov 08, 2021, 03:00:41 PM
My only complaint with Chopper is his armor was not bulky enough.
I like the lighter look actually.
Also the Prodos sculpt was kino:
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4bcsQaiQqsc/maxresdefault.jpg)
My remix of that figure:
(https://i.imgur.com/2TGBeQF.jpg)
I like the lighter look too. Just my attempt at being witty. ;D AvP Preds are way too bulky for my tastes.
(https://i.ibb.co/NNz02jr/IMG-20200413-115458.jpg)
But in all seriousness, these are agile creatures that can climb and jump from tree to tree, building to building, gracefully even. So I prefer something more streamlined like the below concept art armor from "The Predator".
(https://www.scified.com/u/IMG_20181228_105824.jpg)
And not something that leans more to this...
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/23/81/8c/23818c4c0375cf25f0f28f1d1510d74b.jpg)
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 08, 2021, 08:46:56 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Nov 08, 2021, 03:00:41 PM
My only complaint with Chopper is his armor was not bulky enough.
I like the lighter look actually.
Also the Prodos sculpt was kino:
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4bcsQaiQqsc/maxresdefault.jpg)
My remix of that figure:
(https://i.imgur.com/2TGBeQF.jpg)
Anderson and ADI nailed the comic book vibe.
Nice remix!
I've never cared for the Chopper blades myself. They don't keep with the stealthy hunter theme.
I'd like to say that maybe that was the point. That Chopper went in with impractical weapons and was the first to get served, but I doubt they were thinking that far into it.
It was such a waste it managed to disappoint my 10 year old self when I first watched the movie, I was like what?
One Predator already dead ? And why did the Alien tail grew to that size to that scene and then it went back to normal afterwards? Oh well at least the leader with the cool mask will avenge his bro... oh he died too. We only have 1 Predator left, maybe there will still be some cool fight scenes anyway, oh he got a kill, nice but now he decided to just throw a self destruct and leave the pyramid after adopting the wannabe Ripley as a pet. Oh a Queen fight, nice combistick hit, and now movie is over.
I get what Anderson was trying to do with the 40-50+ minutes of waiting before action, since it worked for Aliens per example, but then the movie was over 2 hours and lots of action afterwards so it was worth the buildup. While for AVP you get a little of what you are waiting for as it ends fast.
Not just a waste of the Chopper character and its blades, which would be interested seeing in action, even if it was just versus the humans on the surface, if he was gonna be the first to die they could have make him kill the mercs with those blades, would explain those human skulls. But then PG-13 rating, we can't have Chopper slicing humans with those blades. No. We can't let kids see that. But also the chance of seeing some Predator teamwork.
When I first saw there was gonna be 3 predators, I though about how cool and interesting it would be to see them working and fighting together, but like it was done again in Predators, they seem to act separate and wait for their turn to die instead of hunting effectively cus plot, budget restrictions whatever.
Quote from: Samhain13 on Nov 12, 2021, 03:59:16 PM
Not just a waste of the Chopper character and its blades, which would be interested seeing in action, even if it was just versus the humans on the surface, if he was gonna be the first to die they could have make him kill the mercs with those blades, would explain those human skulls. But then PG-13 rating, we can't have Chopper slicing humans with those blades. No. We can't let kids see that. But also the chance of seeing some Predator teamwork.
I'm not sure why this jogged my memory, but we
do actually get a (very) brief glimpse of a predator using an arm blade during the flashback scene where they're overrun on top of the pyramid, before setting off the self-destruct. It's the one on the left, impaling an alien up through the torso.
Chopper also kills the security team in the shack. We see the large blade outlined with blood below the wrist blades in the frame.
Quote from: The Necronoir on Nov 13, 2021, 05:03:45 AM
I'm not sure why this jogged my memory, but we do actually get a (very) brief glimpse of a predator using an arm blade during the flashback scene where they're overrun on top of the pyramid, before setting off the self-destruct. It's the one on the left, impaling an alien up through the torso.
I know but its like 1 second.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 16, 2021, 09:29:40 AM
Chopper also kills the security team in the shack. We see the large blade outlined with blood below the wrist blades in the frame.
Wat always thought that was Scar, will check it.
I'm grateful we got the design, I remember leading up to the release the dropped the clip of him getting stabbed. I believe they also dropped it in comic con so going in I knew he was the first to go. Shame we didn't see him dice people up, yet only so much we can do with a PG-13 rating
Chopper is as wasted as the Lost Tribe
his death by the hands of the Alien is just *chef's kiss*
however I would've loved to see more human fodder kills by his sweet-ass looking butcher blades...
If I had my way with it, any reboot would have Chopper crawling out of the rubble in an after credits, look around and wonder to himself "where'd everybody go?" as a little joke about him being the first to die but the only one to survive the reboot.
Quote from: SuperiorIronman on Sep 04, 2022, 02:16:39 PMIf I had my way with it, any reboot would have Chopper crawling out of the rubble in an after credits, look around and wonder to himself "where'd everybody go?" as a little joke about him being the first to die but the only one to survive the reboot.
That would be amazing and if I were the director I'd put that IMMEDIATELY
It has been 18 years and i still cant get over how his blade bends like rubber when he gets thrown to the floor.
And is something so obvious and noticeable the very first time you see the movie i dont understand how they could let it happen.
Overall it baffles me when movies take years of pre post production and everything in the middle, with hundreds of people working on it and millions of dollars spent, and they commit amateur continuity mistakes like that.
And yeah he had a really cool mask i still like it, Celtic too, i remember being dissapointed that they killed the two with the coolest designs and let the one with the most plain mask be the survivor.
Quote from: ChanceVance on Nov 04, 2021, 12:20:45 PMIt's kind of funny that AVP is made by a director who obviously loves the Xenos a lot more while Requiem is made by Predator fanboys. The end result always makes one species look bad.
What would folks here considered to be "balanced" Alien vs Predator action?
AvP was balanced. Predators dominated at range, Aliens dominated up close. But Predators still got some close kills.
It would've been more satisfying for Celtic to live longer and for there to be more action, but his death was in character.
AvPR had to nerf the Aliens to let Wolf win.
It is true, back on topic, I don't think Chopper's that great of a design myself, so I never minded, the music for his death rules and strangely it is nowhere to be found on any release of the score.
I don't much care for his bio-mask, but I really dig those skull poles/totems he has on his back, and the arm blades. I'd love to see more Preds with those elements.
He was a red shirt Predator and I am fine with that.
They could have done a bit more with him, maybe let him be the one that gets facehugged, because nothing about Scar getting facehugged/chestbursted makes sense.
I can not believe it but I have to defend AVP 2004, it makes perfect sense, people forget ironically that you get amnesia after it does the job.
Quote from: Wweyland on Sep 10, 2022, 09:56:10 PMHe was a red shirt Predator and I am fine with that.
They could have done a bit more with him, maybe let him be the one that gets facehugged, because nothing about Scar getting facehugged/chestbursted makes sense.
It makes sense, it's just disappointing. All three Predators are effectively dead within 10 minutes.
At least Scar managed to last long enough to fight a Queen and awaken Lex's inner xenophile before he died.
Huh all dead, never thought of it that way.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Sep 10, 2022, 10:06:32 PMI can not believe it but I have to defend AVP 2004, it makes perfect sense, people forget ironically that you get amnesia after it does the job.
Except a facehugger's corpse laying nearby and Scar should know what that means ...
I like to think that he was fully aware he was living on borrowed time, and that he was going to kill himself after awarding Lex her sick tribal tat Blooded mark, but then the Queen popped up and ruined the moment.
If Lex hadn't proven herself worth helping, he might've stayed in the pyramid and gone out with his wrist nuke.
In the script and on set he was going to try to kill himself with his ceremonial dagger before he died of his wounds.
It works better if he knows that it's coming. Right now, there's no indication of it though.
It's like Kane would wake up in the Derelict Ship and continue exploring after being left alone.