Poll
Question:
Do you like the new addition to the lifecycle?
Option 1: Love it!
votes: 80
Option 2: Pretty Cool
votes: 135
Option 3: I expected more
votes: 31
Option 4: Hate it
votes: 40
Option 5: To hell with the makers of AvP: R
votes: 30
Option 6: Like some aspects of it, but think it contradicts too much.
votes: 54
Don't think this got posted in the PredAlien pictures thread, so here goes:
QuoteUnlike the original Aliens, the PredAlien doesn't lay eggs, which are then transported via "facehugger". The new creature can just regurgitate in it's victim's mouth. Don't try this at home.
See picture four in the Slideshow on the USA Today article.
Alien: Director's Cut? What? Je ne compris pas l'Anglais!
Oh no...where did that quote come from!?
So what I expected came to pass...albeit in a perplexing method.
At least we now know what was going on in that fourth pic.
What the fffff...uck?!
So all the really specific quotes in Fango about not messin' with the Alien's life cycle were all just complete bullshit?
Awesome.
This, plus the new pics are a real one-two punch to my gonads. >:(
wtf? This better be just some idiot at fox f**king with us, or else this sucks royal ballsack. The predalien better not regurgitate embryos into people's mouths. That is totally f**king with the life cycle hands down. Egg morphing although somewhat controversial, is still reasonable especially when compared to this shit.
go here:
http://www.usatoday.com/life/gallery/l071025-avp2/flash.htm
then pic 4 as the topic starter said.
At least there might be a slight chance that the "regurgitating" is just what starts the egg morphing process instead of a tail injecting dna, but hey that's already changing the official reproductive cycle of the aliens. >:(
Just how official is this 'official'? Could it be a third party getting the wrong end of the stick?
I have to admit, this isn't cool. This is what happened in Alien: Directors cut right? Though I thought they turned into eggs.
Waaaaaaaiiiit.
Before we jump on the bandwagon (shut up) ... maybe that's how it egg morphs?
That's what I'm thinking until the movie comes along and rapes that idea up the ass.
How they can notice the transluscent shell and not care about the egg-morphing is beyond me.
I don't know what's better- Chet vomiting embryos or just growing a penis and doing it the old-fashioned way.
That Guy may have got it lost in translation and it's actually "The PredAlien turns people into eggs". Well, I'm hoping. Colin really hinted that egg-morphing was making a come-back. :(
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:11:56 AM
Waaaaaaaiiiit.
Before we jump on the bandwagon (shut up) ... maybe that's how it egg morphs?
That's what I'm thinking until the movie comes along and rapes that idea up the ass.
How do you mean?
It's USAToday, which is legit, but this quote has me baffled:
QuoteRe: Ridley Scott's Alien - "That movie was dark. That movie used a lot of rain," Colin says.
Is the interviewer not paying attention, or has Colin not really seen Alien at all?
The only 'rain' I recall was the water in the landing gear that dripped onto Brett.
???
QuoteWaaaaaaaiiiit.
Before we jump on the bandwagon (shut up) ... maybe that's how it egg morphs?
That's what I'm thinking until the movie comes along and rapes that idea up the ass.
That'd be okay I guess. We really don't know how the Alien initiated in the egg morph in the original.
QuoteThe only 'rain' I recall was the water in the landing gear that dripped onto Brett.
There was a few seconds worth when Dallas and Lambert brough Kane back to the Nostromo if memory serves. But otherwise yeah - just Brett's carkage.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 26, 2007, 08:13:31 AM
It's USAToday, which is legit, but this quote has me baffled:
QuoteRe: Ridley Scott's Alien - "That movie was dark. That movie used a lot of rain," Colin says.
Is the interviewer not paying attention, or has Colin not really seen Alien at all?
The only 'rain' I recall was the water in the landing gear that dripped onto Brett.
???
Funny thing- I was going to bring that up, but then the first pic of the PredAlien surfaced and I suddenly felt like even the anti-logic of that statement didn't matter so much anymore. :(
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 26, 2007, 08:13:31 AM
It's USAToday, which is legit, but this quote has me baffled:
QuoteRe: Ridley Scott's Alien - "That movie was dark. That movie used a lot of rain," Colin says.
Is the interviewer not paying attention, or has Colin not really seen Alien at all?
The only 'rain' I recall was the water in the landing gear that dripped onto Brett.
???
Yeah, ridley used a lot of mist and atmosphere on the set giving things a look as if it just rained.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:11:56 AM
Before we jump on the bandwagon (shut up) ... maybe that's how it egg morphs?
This
has to lead to egg-morphing...they were screaming, "[...] our movie will be canon" in that other interview...there is no way this thing just vomits an embryo into a persons mouth...I refuse to believe it...they are not that stupid...
I doubt the Alien did it by mouth-to-mouth regurgitation, but ... well, shit. Who knows. I very suddenly stopped giving a damn.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:16:46 AM
I doubt the Alien did it by mouth-to-mouth regurgitation, but ... well, shit. Who knows. I very suddenly stopped giving a damn.
So, it could be egg-morphing like in Alien?
Quote from: The Ultimate Predator on Oct 26, 2007, 08:18:13 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:16:46 AM
I doubt the Alien did it by mouth-to-mouth regurgitation, but ... well, shit. Who knows. I very suddenly stopped giving a damn.
So, it could be egg-morphing like in Alien?
It's plausible only because we never saw how it specifically happened...
Let's put it this way...if this movie tries to indicate that egg-morphing was always done via regurgitation, I'll be more pissed, not less.
Egg morphing I can take or leave.
Some kind of ass-to-mouthery for new straight up new Aliens? No thanks.
QuoteI doubt the Alien did it by mouth-to-mouth regurgitation
Depends if the host actually has to swallow it. Brett may have had some difficulty what with being deceased and all.
It's not egg morphing. We can pray and b*tch and cry, and it won't change a thing. This is Fox's revenge for us laughing at their "PredAlien with a shoulder cannon" idea. :'(
If the directors wanted the film to be canon, they would've fought to make the PredAlien look even less like a Predator than it does. Sure, the producers wanted it to look like a Predator, but come the freak on. It's a Predator with a tail and a wonky head and a few bits of flesh missing.
This is really terrible... :-X
I seriously can't wait for the validation on the PredAlien, if we ever get one. I reckon we'll be getting much flowerly language ultimately summing up into "well, it seemed like a great idea at the time..."
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 26, 2007, 08:18:41 AM
Let's put it this way...if this movie tries to indicate that egg-morphing was always done via regurgitation, I'll be more pissed, not less.
Egg morphing I can take or leave.
Some kind of ass-to-mouthery for new straight up new Aliens? No thanks.
yeah, i mean nothing in the director's cut of alien, implied that the egg morphing process started via the alien puking down someone's throat. Now we know either way, that it still presents problems with accounting for the large number of aliens though.
If its only the predalien reproducing this way, that means it has to be puking down countless hosts throats one by one.. come on now, this is dumb as f**k.
between some of the new pics and this info, my enthusiasm for this film has dropped significantly. I mean it'll still be better than the first avp, but not as much as many had hoped apparently.
The more I read that quote, the more I want to fu<king vomit... :-X
I think I can now officially say it...I hate Shane Salerno. >:(
Quote from: SM on Oct 26, 2007, 08:19:32 AM
QuoteI doubt the Alien did it by mouth-to-mouth regurgitation
Depends if the host actually has to swallow it. Brett may have had some difficulty what with being deceased and all.
lol. indeed.
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 26, 2007, 08:26:12 AM
I think I can now officially say it...I hate Shane Salerno. >:(
Hate the bros. They okayed the idea.
The more I think about this, the more depressed over this whole affair I become. This is even worse than what I pictured with the tail. I can just imagine that girl taking some embryo to the mouth and choking it down with her face in a mess like Chet just nutted...ugh...
I'll go into this film, but I don't think I'll be so hot about saying I'm an Alien fan from here on out.
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 26, 2007, 08:26:12 AM
I think I can now officially say it...I hate Shane Salerno. >:(
yeah, not the best person to write a script for an alien or predator related film. Fox is retarded you soon forget, who knows how many of these half-baked ideas are their fault. The predalien using predator technology(at least that one didn't make it), the predalien having predator skin texture(wtf?),
and now the regurgitating into a victim's mouth. (please tell me its not going to hold open a hosts mouth with its mandibles and stick its inner jaw in their mouth or squirt some fluid out of it into their mouth)
I guess we now know why there was such a tight lid kept on this information. They just sprang it on us, months from the release.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 26, 2007, 08:30:05 AM
[...] and now the regurgitating into a victim's mouth. (please tell me its not going to hold open a hosts mouth with its mandibles and stick its inner jaw in their mouth or squirt some fluid out of it into their mouth)
That mental picture just ruined the last shred of hope I had left for this piece of garbage... :-X
Quote from: Gates on Oct 26, 2007, 08:33:30 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 26, 2007, 08:30:05 AM
[...] and now the regurgitating into a victim's mouth. (please tell me its not going to hold open a hosts mouth with its mandibles and stick its inner jaw in their mouth or squirt some fluid out of it into their mouth)
That mental picture just ruined the last shred of hope I had left for this piece of garbage... :-X
lol. sorry. But it seems like something they'd do at this point after reading all this shit. I'd love to wake up tomorrow to find this was all just a bad dream or that the guy from fox was just being an idiot and have the director's clear this up once and for all, but its not happening anytime soon.
Apparently the predalien is officially a rapist, taking any freudian/gigeresque sexual connotations to a ridiculous level. Holding down the victim, lurking over them and finally gushing fluid into their body.
Fu<k it is burning out my eyes.... Who agreed for this fu<king, stupid, shitty idea? And I was worried aboyt lenght of life cycle ( fool of me)... I want the head of mothrefu<ker who invented this....
Quote from: Gates on Oct 26, 2007, 08:33:30 AM
That mental picture just ruined the last shred of hope I had left for this piece of garbage... :-X
Maybe it does put its tongue down her throat...then it gets stuck, and a fountain of fluid starts being spurted all over the place like the girl was Bishop spewing fluids with Chet left making that stupid Predator roar for a minute straight before it can get out.
There. Now it's worse. :)
If this is truth, I`m not going to the cinema. I`ll watch this another attempt to ruin both francises on DvD and have hope that there won`t be third one. God help.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 26, 2007, 08:36:48 AM
lol. sorry. But it seems like something they'd do at this point after reading all this shit. [...]
No need to apologize brother...it's not your fault... :)
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 26, 2007, 08:38:03 AM
Maybe it does put its tongue down her throat...then it gets stuck, and a fountain of fluid starts being spurted all over the place like the girl was Bishop spewing fluids with Chet left making that stupid Predator roar for a minute straight before it can get out.
There. Now it's worse. :)
I just can't fu<king believe this...I'm really shocked...I remember you mentioning this but I never, for one minute, believed it would be a reality...what a waste... :-\
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 26, 2007, 08:38:03 AM
Quote from: Gates on Oct 26, 2007, 08:33:30 AM
That mental picture just ruined the last shred of hope I had left for this piece of garbage... :-X
Maybe it does put its tongue down her throat...then it gets stuck, and a fountain of fluid starts being spurted all over the place like the girl was Bishop spewing fluids with Chet left making that stupid Predator roar for a minute straight before it can get out.
There. Now it's worse. :)
This is f**ked up.
Especially with some of the known victims being the woman in the hospital bed and carrie adams(the waitress) this seems even more repulsive but not in a good sci-fi/horror film kind of way. If the inner jaw has anything to do with the regurgitating, there's no way around the grotesque sexual connotation. And people thought the facehugger sticking its ovipositor down hosts throat was somewhat freudian. lol
I forgot who guessed that the new reproduction method would be chet shitting out chestbursters, you know what at this point, that idea doesn't seem as bad. lol. Of course both ideas are idiotic, but the person who guessed that one wasn't too far from how lame it would indeed be.
To be honest I don't like the idea of tampering with the aliens' reproduction cycle, & the idea of simply regurgitating an embryo into a victim's mouth seems horribly unoriginal & bland, but whether it will actually be what happens in the movie has yet to be seen, after all, Colin & Greg have never backed up the statement as far as I know.
It just got revealed, so we're just waiting for confirmation at this point.
But why? Aliens have their own method of reproduceing which is nearly perfect. Why to chang that for some cheap method? Do any one of you have any ideas?
Quote from: Stalker on Oct 26, 2007, 08:43:54 AM
To be honest I don't like the idea of tampering with the aliens' reproduction cycle, & the idea of simply regurgitating an embryo into a victim's mouth seems horribly unoriginal & bland, but whether it will actually be what happens in the movie has yet to be seen, after all, Colin & Greg have never backed up the statement as far as I know.
But they've never denied it either. They never mentioned egg morphing or this shit, and they did mention there was no queen however.
Quote from: Master on Oct 26, 2007, 08:46:23 AM
But why? Aliens have their own method of reproduceing which is nearly perfect. Why to chang that for some cheap method? Do any one of you have any ideas?
They didn't want to regurgitate the Queen again so instead they have the predalien regurgitating...zing! ;D
DISCLAIMER: ^^^^Sarcasm^^^^
Quote from: Gates on Oct 26, 2007, 08:49:12 AM
Quote from: Master on Oct 26, 2007, 08:46:23 AM
But why? Aliens have their own method of reproduceing which is nearly perfect. Why to chang that for some cheap method? Do any one of you have any ideas?
They didn't want to regurgitate the Queen again so instead they have the predalien regurgitating...zing! ;D
DISCLAIMER: ^^^^Sarcasm^^^^
Apparently the director's cared more about being controversial as well as showing new stuff rather than show the queen again, which would not f**k with the lifecycle in any way whatsoever.
I think the Predalien looks cool, I don't mind egg-morphing, but mouth to mouth? I'm not sure, I'll wait and see how it plays out.
They might not have had the budget to bring the Queen back, although why they couldn't have simply touched up the design from AVP & re-used that I have no idea. It's a possibility they wanted all the focus on the predalien, rather than the Queen as well.
Either way, they still could have thought up a better reproduction method than this, it's horribly cliché from many horror films.
It could have been so good. It could have been so sweet...... But now it is just fu*ked up. I want confirmation of this bz the director of film.
Quote from: Gates on Oct 26, 2007, 08:18:38 AM
Quote from: The Ultimate Predator on Oct 26, 2007, 08:18:13 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:16:46 AM
I doubt the Alien did it by mouth-to-mouth regurgitation, but ... well, shit. Who knows. I very suddenly stopped giving a damn.
So, it could be egg-morphing like in Alien?
It's plausible only because we never saw how it specifically happened...
I see.
I went back to read some other comments by the guy from fox, and it also says the predalien leads a pack of aliens. I really hope there are not 3 or 4 aliens which follow the predalien around at all times and act like a f**king wolf pack. There's certainly nothing wrong with aliens using teamwork to kill or ambush victims, but this seems lame as well.
So hopefully its just the guy being an idiot. But then again, other info he mentioned is correct, like using only 12 alien suits..etc.
I hope he is an Idiot. And 12 alien suits dosen·t mean 12 aliens.
Quote from: Master on Oct 26, 2007, 08:59:19 AM
I hope he is an Idiot. And 12 alien suits dosen·t mean 12 aliens.
i never said that i thought there would be only 12 aliens. The "pack" comment was from pic 3. where the guy says "the predalien leads a pack of the creatures to a small colorado town".
Hopefully he is just misinformed to some degree, talking out his ass. I doubt there are other aliens already onboard the ship as if the predalien leads a bunch of full grown aliens to the town.
I think that after "normal" life cycle would also be fu<ked up, and we will face instant aliens again. So after impalantation of Hunter and his son, in 20 minutes we will have 3 adult aliens.
Quote from: Master on Oct 26, 2007, 09:04:33 AM
I think that after "normal" life cycle would also be fu<ked up, and we will face instant aliens again. So after impalantation of Hunter and his son, in 20 minutes we will have 3 adult aliens.
no, no, no..enough disapointment for one day. lol
I know the guy could be off on that point, but it does seem like the regurgitating is official, its just unkown if its linked to egg morphing or not. Even if it is, it really doesn't take away the stupidity factor of it though.
You guys reallly didnt see it coming though? i mean how many more clues did you want? \\\"she\\\'s looking to mate\\\", no eggs in the film, Aliens left right and centre.
Not a shock, I\\\'m still going to wait to see it before i call on it though.
I\\\'m really not giving a toss, Wolf looks good, the aliens got screwed over way back before AVP.
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 26, 2007, 09:08:10 AM
You guys reallly didnt see it coming though? i mean how many more clues did you want? \\\"she\\\'s looking to mate\\\", no eggs in the film, Aliens left right and centre.
Not a shock, I\\\'m still going to wait to see it before i call on it though.
I\\\'m really not giving a toss, Wolf looks good, the aliens got screwed over way back before AVP.
I knew egg morphing was a possibility, but not vomiting down a hosts throat. lol. You can't not be disappointed by that.
wait a minute. no eggs in the film. Was that ever officially stated? If so, then its pure, 100% embryo puking. :(
yeah, I suspected this may have been how they were F@c%ing with the lifecycle. It sounds really stupid, and I hope it isnt true. if it is, it better have a logical reason other than, "Predaliens can just do that because they are bad ass."
Stan Winston LOL's @ all od ADI.
Come to think of it, ADI or anyone working on the film has never mentioned the egg design. There were no eggs in any of the various pics, or footage in any of the multiple trailers, yet we have seen the chestbursters, the facehugger design.
If there are no eggs at all, you can't have egg morphing. So unless they purposefully didn't show any eggs and didn't talk about working on them as not to spoil the egg morphing suprise(really not much of a suprise, considering it was speculated months ago),
this confirms the worst of the worst, just puking embryos in people and at an alarming rate as well, considering the town gets overrun. If the warrior aliens are doing it to, it will really f**k with continuity since they've never done that in any of the alien films. (i refuse to believe the alien in the first film puked down bretts throat)
Can I get a link to this supposed source, and if it requires one to join can I just get a copy-paste of this info?
Its the USA Today article, the caption for the 4th or 5th picture I think.
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 26, 2007, 09:15:56 AM
Can I get a link to this supposed source, and if it requires one to join can I just get a copy-paste of this info?
once again here is the infamous "regurgitation" info link:
http://www.usatoday.com/life/gallery/l071025-avp2/flash.htm
And i just realized this clearly has to be related to egg morphing, since i remember reading shit in the infamous AICN reviewed script that says " the aliens keep reproducing and more
Facehuggers keep grabbing people". If it was embryos, they would just grow in the person and burst out.
This is a slight relief. (unless that part of the old script was changed to accomodate this bullshit)
But this is still lame even if its related to egg morphing. It also is hard to use to account for such a shitload of aliens infesting the town. Also if its egg morphing, why all the mentioning of how chet wants to hunt and reproduce? Wouldn't the other aliens be able to do the same thing in such a scenario?
You complain too much, guys. I suggest to wait and see the film.
But because of the many complaints, maybe Colin will post some explanation in this topic.
"I don't get why you're all bitching, it looks great"
"It sounded like a good idea at the time."
"It wasn't our idea."
"You guys need to get out more."
"Stop being morons and basing your opinion on trivial advertisement and just see the damned film when it comes out. Duh."
Or more likely, nothing.
"Shut up and give us your money!"
I just hope this isn't resurrecting the god-awful trend many of the Alien 3 scripts had, whereby the alien completely left behind its normal lifecycle. Ward's version of a 'king' alien rampantly impregnating people was pretty awful, and that seems to be what's happening here. Lets hope they don't go as far as one of the others where they start reproducing through infectious spores.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 26, 2007, 09:45:39 AM
"Shut up and give us your money!"
Exactly. That seems to be the standard response.
Well ...
If it is true .. it will be fine. Really ... i dont dislike this idea at all ... and in some way, i think this is official and right.
When you look at this Picture here:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg88.imageshack.us%2Fimg88%2F156%2F38379737xk0.jpg&hash=5dc87079baeccb53d35288560a8d6a4ee22b9d75)
1. This could be in the hospital .. and Chest first victim! Victim in the way of reproduction. Could be the first situation ...
2. Or it is just a headbite =)
greetz
Oh shit wtf I don't know whats worse getting raped, having a facehugger on your face, or having this ugly thing on my head doing it through my mouth.
Jeap .. just imagine the way, Chest pulls mth in your mouth .. uaaahh .. god, if this is true i hope they show it in the movie in a really scary and disgusting way !!!
greetz
THIS IDEA SUCKS!!!! I HATE IT!!! I´ve been positibe, but this is too much, how can the fu**ing predalien do that? doesnt make sense, yeah, they tryed to do it the cheapest and crapiest way possible. Is too much to ask to see aliens and predators beating the sh*t out of each other? i dont want to see this "new and ¿cool?" sh*t. Im pissed and im thinking that maybe this sh*t ruins the movie. The predalien will be the worst part of it for sure. >:( :'(
Curious as to why it would reproduce this way. I suppose it could be some kind of genetic trait that is carried over from the Predator, maybe some kind of mutation brought on by the fact that this creature was clearly meant to be a Queen. Makes you wonder how the Preds reproduce, huh? I doubt any of this will be answered in the movie.
Oh boy...
Hope it's morphing.
If done wrong, it could just look disgusting.
If done right, it could be a real Giger moment.
Quote from: $cHm0cK on Oct 26, 2007, 10:15:45 AM
Well ...
If it is true .. it will be fine. Really ... i dont dislike this idea at all ... and in some way, i think this is official and right.
When you look at this Picture here:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg88.imageshack.us%2Fimg88%2F156%2F38379737xk0.jpg&hash=5dc87079baeccb53d35288560a8d6a4ee22b9d75)
1. This could be in the hospital .. and Chest first victim! Victim in the way of reproduction. Could be the first situation ...
2. Or it is just a headbite =)
greetz
If you think about it, it fits in with the weird sexual stuff the aliens get up to. I mean, implanting an embryo via mouth to mouth? That was originally Giger's idea, btw, except it was the tongue killing the victim instead of planting the egg.
Anyway, that's what aliens do - rape via the throat. It's just that we haven't seen it before - but it could be a part of egg morphing.
I know some people has the immediate reaction of hating any new idea, but just wait until the film comes out to see how they use it.
Giger's original idea?
That was for Alien 3. Hardly original.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 10:48:24 AM
Giger's original idea?
That was for Alien 3. Hardly original.
Not sure what you mean by that - but it sounds like something Giger would come up with, if he was to practically envision egg-morphing (if that is indeed what it is). How else would you get the embryo inside the victim and to change them from the inside to an egg, then?
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 26, 2007, 10:53:18 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 10:48:24 AM
Giger's original idea?
That was for Alien 3. Hardly original.
Not sure what you mean by that - but it sounds like something Giger would come up with, if he was to practically envision egg-morphing (if that is indeed what it is). How else would you get the embryo inside the victim and to change them from the inside to an egg, then?
Two words: LAZY IDEA...
This cockamamie idea of new FAST-FORWARD alien reproduction would only work if that was how the Predators would reproduce... The eggmorphing would not be done like that at all...
Also, what renders the Predalien so special so that he/she ( ::) - Now I get Colin's 'SHE' ) can now lay eggs orally unless it IS a Queen...?
I mean, why use the blatant economy of means at their disposal to motivate and justify this pathetic and utterly bogus reproduction means in order to avoid doing a Queen and eggs...?
This is an OBVIOUS 'money-save' idea, not only to place the Predalien and Queen all in one, but also avoid the time problem with the eggmorphing...Funny thing is... in terms of money-saving, that would be the way to go...However, so much for the 'continuity protected' remark from Colin... ::)
Continuity is not just about the events depicted in AVPR not conflicting with the ones in the Alien saga, but also, keep canon and Aliens RC unscathed because otherwise explanations, on and offscreen, will be required to explain the obvious departure from Alien canon...Aliens don't plant eggs down people's throats, they plant embryos, so
either there won't be any eggs at all during the whole movie, and what Chet places in people's throats are the embryos, or 'she' is gonna eggmorph them into eggs, and we will still have the EM-duration time problem... My vote is on the first... ;)
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 26, 2007, 10:45:58 AM
If you think about it, it fits in with the weird sexual stuff the aliens get up to.
Jep .. really ... egg morphing sounds stupid to me .. i dont like this idea ... so better implant some embryo or whatever via mouth to mouth ...
greetz
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Oct 26, 2007, 11:20:30 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 26, 2007, 10:53:18 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 10:48:24 AM
Giger's original idea?
That was for Alien 3. Hardly original.
Not sure what you mean by that - but it sounds like something Giger would come up with, if he was to practically envision egg-morphing (if that is indeed what it is). How else would you get the embryo inside the victim and to change them from the inside to an egg, then?
Two words: LAZY IDEA...
This cockamamie idea of new FAST-FORWARD alien reproduction would only work if that was how the Predators would reproduce... The eggmorphing would not be done like that at all...
Also, what renders the Predalien so special so that he/she ( ::) - Now I get Colin's 'SHE' ) can now lay eggs orally unless it IS a Queen...?
I mean, why use the blatant economy of means at their disposal to motivate and justify this pathetic and utterly bogus reproduction means in order to avoid doing a Queen and eggs...?
This is an OBVIOUS 'money-save' idea, not only to place the Predalien and Queen all in one, but also avoid the time problem with the eggmorphing...
Funny thing is... in terms of money-saving, that would be the way to go...However, so much for the 'continuity protected' remark from Colin... ::)
Continuity is not just about the events depicted in AVPR not conflicting with the ones in the Alien saga, but also, keep canon and Aliens RC unscathed because otherwise explanations, on and offscreen, will be required to explain the obvious departure from Alien canon...
Aliens don't plant eggs down people's throats, they plant embryos, so either there won't be any eggs at all during the whole movie, and what Chet places in people's throats are the embryos, or 'she' is gonna eggmorph them into eggs, and we will still have the EM-duration time problem...
My vote is on the first... ;)
Its their Predalien, they can do what they like with it. It doesnt break any cannon.
Maybe it is to save money, but they didnt have alot in the first place.
THIS RULES!
whats with all the negativity? the implications of this are immense- looks like weve finally got some idea as to how the Predators reproduce too.
And if thats been totally overlooked by the writer (i.e why would the PredAlien have this trait?)
then so be it.
How f**ked up is that scene going to be? The predalien barfs some digestive/f**ked up acid down the victims throat...which in turn dissolves their insides turning them into mush slowly.
Ahh...I really hope this is the return of egg morphing.
If it's just a basic vomit=embryo then fair enough, its still fairly cool. I wonder if the predalien uses its mandibles in the process to kind of form the egg, like its shaping a cocoon. that'd be awesome.
Well....I'm psyched for this now. At least AvP Requiem is really taking us into totally new territory.
^Seriously, you think this is an indicator of how Predators reproduce?
They puke down their partners throat? Uh, yeah. :o
It's pointless to argue with retardation Antman...save yourself the trouble... ;)
Well, if nothing else this film can descend into hilarity with the Wolf spiting his man fluid at the Alien, whilst the Alien spits acid at him. ;)
lmfao... Man fluid.
Quote from: jimmylace on Oct 26, 2007, 11:42:17 AM
THIS RULES!
If it's just a basic vomit=embryo then fair enough, its still fairly cool. I wonder if the predalien uses its mandibles in the process to kind of form the egg, like its shaping a cocoon. that'd be awesome.
Well....I'm psyched for this now. At least AvP Requiem is really taking us into totally new territory.
I agree! Thats why im a very curious! They keep the old things but they add new stuffs and it seems it will be a good choice!
If the predalien spits embreyos down their throat which burst out.. I'm gonna be pissed.
However ,if the predalien clamps it's mouth to theirs in some sort of, weird kiss and they egg morph, meh, could work. Keeps in touch with gigers alien 3 kiss.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 26, 2007, 11:44:20 AM
^Seriously, you think this is an indicator of how Predators reproduce?
They puke down their partners throat? Uh, yeah. :o
Well...maybe. The predators method of reproducing has never been explained. Now...Ive never read an AvP comic, but my assumption was that the alien adopted...........
ahhhh. my bad.
Chet is just a mutant. You can easily put her on the same shelve where Newborn is sitting. This is not normal predalien, it is offspring of this "hormon pumped" Alien queen from AvP, and it will die like every mutant does. I hope that some beautiful day we will see normal Predalien that came out from normal queen, and is normaly killing people/predatorss/animals or abduct them for facehugger implantation.
that said, i dont think thats necessarily a bad way for the preds to reproduce.
anyway- heres my question. This Pred-Alien has to be a Queen then. Right?
Quote from: Master on Oct 26, 2007, 11:56:49 AM
Chet is just a mutant. You can easily put her on the same shelve where Newborn is sitting. This is not normal predalien, it is offspring of this "hormon pumped" Alien queen from AvP, and it will die like every mutant does. I hope that some beautiful day we will see normal Predalien that came out from normal queen, and is normaly killing people/predatorss/animals or abduct them for facehugger implantation.
I don't think so! There is a plausibility if Chet is not the same Predalien what we saw in AvP! Maybe the Bros made a new story background and the only similarity are the Predalien and the altar bed with a new totally new situation and thats it.
Quote from: csutkakoma on Oct 26, 2007, 12:01:05 PM
I don't think so! There is a plausibility if Chet is not the same Predalien what we saw in AvP! Maybe the Bros made a new story background and the only similarity are the Predalien and the altar bed with a new totally new situation and thats it.
More's the pity...
Quote from: jimmylace on Oct 26, 2007, 11:58:07 AM
that said, i dont think thats necessarily a bad way for the preds to reproduce.
anyway- heres my question. This Pred-Alien has to be a Queen then. Right?
Not has to be a queen but she will be similar. i think she has a similar features like the queen at some way.
So I'm gonna take a wild guess and say this means that Chet is Bulimic?
Quote from: CloakedHunter on Oct 26, 2007, 12:05:12 PM
So I'm gonna take a wild guess and say this means that Chet is Bulimic?
What the bulimic means?
QuoteUnlike the original Aliens, the PredAlien doesn't lay eggs, which are then transported via "facehugger". The new creature can just regurgitate in it's victim's mouth. Don't try this at home.
Great idea, i like it, and now we know what is going to happen with the female in the hospital.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:11:56 AM
Waaaaaaaiiiit.
Before we jump on the bandwagon (shut up) ... maybe that's how it egg morphs?
That's what I'm thinking until the movie comes along and rapes that idea up the ass.
:D
In all seriousness, the concept
would be something Giger tends to think up. It even makes biological sense, in a certain way; facehugger ovipositor 'translating' to the adult, as a more protected version, which creates the inner mouth (and gives a reason for why their instinct is always to try and use it).
Now... If all it does is to implant and leave, not creating eggs, then I'm going to account for it by saying that's perhaps the method to get regular adults, with egg transformation being the one to get Queens. At least that way, we could say it sort of fits in.
However... I really f**king wanted egging to return and so did many others. It's just a great deal more horrific and, above all, haunting. That's the sort of theme we were promised would return and we're not getting it.
I hope the directors realise that this, if it's not simply to initiate egging, is going to disappoint a heck of a lot of people who will see it.
Also, I'm really getting confused at the directors' professed knowledge of these films, when we're getting quotes of them saying the Predator "never" originally wore any armour and now that '
Alien' had loads of rain in it. Perhaps they had actually meant '
Aliens', by the colony?
Okay, so Chet will infect her victims with her mouth.
But why is there a hive if there aren't any eggs? Does somebody know the answer? If there are no eggs, the hive is not needed, I think.
This is a really unfortunate turn of events. While I like the new pics that were released, the regurgitating aspect I fear will probably ruin the movie for me. All the gore and rated R action in the world won't save a stupid concept. :(
I'll believe it when I see it on screen. Instead of sitting here debating about it. Anyhow, I don't want to spoil the story for myself...by the time we see this movie we are gonna know how it ends and well, I will have to find the person that posted that thread and rip their soul part. Well, not really but you know what I mean!
WARNING - LONG POST AHEAD ::)
Yes, Highland, it DOES break canon... Things need to have some credibility and coherence, not make things up out of thin air... It has to be, at the very least, a coherent and credible evolution of both creatures Reproductory Cycles (RC)...
Biologically speaking, there is no biological reason for the radical change in theRC...
Queens don't acquire so many features from the host (watch the Aliens Queen, hosted by a human, and the AVP Queen, hosted by something else... :D) as Chet did, nor do they change their RC radically like that... Even if the Predator DNA was 'stronger', I don't think Predators would reproduce like that, 'vomiting' the embryos...
So there's no biological connection between 'laying eggs' and 'regurgitating embryos through the mouth'...
Also, the Hybrid Queen from AR demonstrates that any genetic mixing, even though she was a DNA-manipulated Queen in laboratory, would provide dual reproductory cycles, one xenomorphic, the other human, and none look anything like this... So it is safe to assume that in any REGULAR crossbreeding, the Queen would still reproduce in xenomorphic fashion, a.k.a. egg-laying, not 'inventing' a new way out of the blue...
This whole Predalien RC is purely motivated by economy of means, not creativity... And unless the Predator would reproduce that way, this is and always will be a made-up concept without any root to canon... people say the Predalien can be hors-canon, but it cannot be out of plausibility...
Queens have a specific RC, and this is not even remotely similar...hell, the ends don't even match... ;D :D
Also, I don't like pseudo sci-fi movies that invent things without a link to 'reality', namely' Alien franchise reality...or at least build on what the first movies began...
Unless the PQ is a Hybrid like the AR Queen was, with a first stage Alien RC and second one Predator RC, this is just creative vomit that has no FOUNDATION in any of the Alien movies...therefore totally made up and continuity-disruptive... This Predalien is not like the AR Queen, so it should reproduce as an Alien Queen would normally reproduce...
The money constraints will never be an acceptable excuse, because if they don't have the money, they should NEVER make a movie like this...Period...not invent money-saving plot ploys that disrupt immensily the Alien RC without any logic attached to it other than the money-saving one... >:(
People may just like things because they look 'cool' or 'hey, never thought about that before', but there are people like myself who don't like people making things up out of thin air without logic attached to it... And as ridiculous-looking as this... :D ::)
Movie logic, franchise logic, continuity, coherence, credibility, all those are required to make a movie stand out as good, memorable and not offending the viewer's intelligence... The Alien movies didn't, Predator movies didn't, so why make excuses for this AVPR one...?
Or can't we have a popcorn movie with brains...? Batman Begins had them, and it was awesome... So will probably The Dark Knight... It is all a matter of the script (Shane Salerno) and the directing (The Strauses) conveying it...
At least, the Alien movies, until the second half of Alien Resurrection, all had some credibility and coherence regarding where the Aliens came from and how they reproduce...
You will say I am nitpicking...Well, most aren't and they still think this is a bad Predalien design and terrible RC concept...
And no matter what you say, this design has no foundation whatsoever other than financial...
Combining two in one (Queen and Predalien) and eliminating the EM with a direct-to-embryo 'coughed up' MO ;D is not the way to go in my mind...
I know the EM has time issues, but this is just ridiculing the Aliens by eliminating RC stages to cut to the chase... >:( ::) :o
As I said before, a very LAZY IDEA... ::)
And this is all I have to say about that...So, highland, sorry to keep you waiting... ;D Fire away... ;)
you know if they REALLY REALLY wanted the predalien to stand up in the movie, instead of f**king up the lifecycle they should have just had like 2 aliens(those 2 facehuggers that got out of the pred ship) and one predalien... the movie can still show a lot of action and make it look right... look at alien and alien 3 , they only had one alien but it was still great.
OR.... instead of f**king up the lifecycle like i said before, they could have just made a SUPER facehugger which is not an ordinary facehugger but a super facehugger which can f**k a face more than once, infact it can f**k like a whore.
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Oct 26, 2007, 12:35:55 PM
WARNING - LONG POST AHEAD ::)
Yes, Highland, it DOES break canon... Things need to have some credibility and coherence, not make things up out of thin air... It has to be, at the very least, a coherent and credible evolution of both creatures Reproductory Cycles (RC)...
Biologically speaking, there is no biological reason for the radical change in theRC...
Queens don't acquire so many features from the host (watch the Aliens Queen, hosted by a human, and the AVP Queen, hosted by something else... :D) as Chet did, nor do they change their RC radically like that... Even if the Predator DNA was 'stronger', I don't think Predators would reproduce like that, 'vomiting' the embryos...
So there's no biological connection between 'laying eggs' and 'regurgitating embryos through the mouth'...
Also, the Hybrid Queen from AR demonstrates that any genetic mixing, even though she was a DNA-manipulated Queen in laboratory, would provide dual reproductory cycles, one xenomorphic, the other human, and none look anything like this... So it is safe to assume that in any REGULAR crossbreeding, the Queen would still reproduce in xenomorphic fashion, a.k.a. egg-laying, not 'inventing' a new way out of the blue...
This whole Predalien RC is purely motivated by economy of means, not creativity... And unless the Predator would reproduce that way, this is and always will be a made-up concept without any root to canon... people say the Predalien can be hors-canon, but it cannot be out of plausibility...
Queens have a specific RC, and this is not even remotely similar...hell, the ends don't even match... ;D :D
Also, I don't like pseudo sci-fi movies that invent things without a link to 'reality', namely' Alien franchise reality...or at least build on what the first movies began...
Unless the PQ is a Hybrid like the AR Queen was, with a first stage Alien RC and second one Predator RC, this is just creative vomit that has no FOUNDATION in any of the Alien movies...therefore totally made up and continuity-disruptive... This Predalien is not like the AR Queen, so it should reproduce as an Alien Queen would normally reproduce...
The money constraints will never be an acceptable excuse, because if they don't have the money, they should NEVER make a movie like this...Period...not invent money-saving plot ploys that disrupt immensily the Alien RC without any logic attached to it other than the money-saving one... >:(
People may just like things because they look 'cool' or 'hey, never thought about that before', but there are people like myself who don't like people making things up out of thin air without logic attached to it... And as ridiculous-looking as this... :D ::)
Movie logic, franchise logic, continuity, coherence, credibility, all those are required to make a movie stand out as good, memorable and not offending the viewer's intelligence... The Alien movies didn't, Predator movies didn't, so why make excuses for this AVPR one...?
Or can't we have a popcorn movie with brains...? Batman Begins had them, and it was awesome... So will probably The Dark Knight... It is all a matter of the script (Shane Salerno) and the directing (The Strauses) conveying it...
At least, the Alien movies, until the second half of Alien Resurrection, all had some credibility and coherence regarding where the Aliens came from and how they reproduce...
You will say I am nitpicking...Well, most aren't and they still think this is a bad Predalien design and terrible RC concept...
And no matter what you say, this design has no foundation whatsoever other than financial...
Combining two in one (Queen and Predalien) and eliminating the EM with a direct-to-embryo 'coughed up' MO ;D is not the way to go in my mind...
I know the EM has time issues, but this is just ridiculing the Aliens by eliminating RC stages to cut to the chase... >:( ::) :o
As I said before, a very LAZY IDEA... ::)
And this is all I have to say about that...So, highland, sorry to keep you waiting... ;D Fire away... ;)
Disagree, no surprise there.
Jim Cameron Made the Queen up out of thin Air.........or what about the Alien 3 egg, yup , thin air. Just because you dont like it , dont go spouting the science of a Science fiction monster at me.
It breaks nothing.
You don't like sci fi that has no link to reality? then you dont like sci fi.
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 26, 2007, 01:03:32 PM
You don't like sci fi that has no link to reality? then you dont like sci fi.
That's ridiculous. You're thinking of
fantasy. Sci-fi is typically set in a universe that can be believably explained, even if there are "made up" elements to it. (Hence the 'fiction' part of science fiction.)
Fantasy is the one where 'a wizard did it it' if something odd or unforeseen happens.
But it does bareak logic of earlier films. Alien Quenn in Aliens showed up because there had to be something that is laying eggs. Remember that aliens lifec cycle is Queen->egg-> facehugger-> embryo-> chestburster-> Drone/Queen. Without eggs and facehuggers, we have got shit insted of life cycle.
Oh Boy...another whinefest... :-\
I'm just going to wait for the movie, to see what's really going on, sounds fairly similar to Species though...let's wait and see. ;)
^Species' Sil reproduced by doing the nasty with Alfred Molina.
How does Chet puking into people's mouths sound like having sex with Natasha Henstridge? :o
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 26, 2007, 01:23:46 PM
^Species' Sil reproduced by doing the nasty with Alfred Molina.
How does Chet puking into people's mouths sound like having sex with Natasha Henstridge? :o
:D
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 26, 2007, 01:16:49 PM
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 26, 2007, 01:03:32 PM
You don't like sci fi that has no link to reality? then you dont like sci fi.
That's ridiculous. You're thinking of fantasy. Sci-fi is typically set in a universe that can be believably explained, even if there are "made up" elements to it. (Hence the 'fiction' part of science fiction.)
Fantasy is the one where 'a wizard did it it' if something odd or unforeseen happens.
Lol I realise this...... But 9 out of 10 Sci fi movies include elements that are completley unbeleivable. Trying to say that "the Aliens dont reproduce this way" as fact is just plain dumb. When theres nothing to compare it to.
The fact the Chet might spew aliens is no worse than Cameron turning them into giant ants. I dont see how anyone can call it breaking canon.
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 26, 2007, 01:36:36 PM
The fact the Chet might spew aliens is no worse than Cameron turning them into giant ants. I dont see how anyone can call it breaking canon.
You're right, the Queen was not canon...but it's introduction was conducive to eggs with facehuggers...which was canon in the original film...he didn't change the existing lifecycle, he just added to it...
The predalien vomiting whatever it vomits down a persons throat is conducive to nothing in any previous film...therefore, breaking canon...
Quote from: Gates on Oct 26, 2007, 01:42:17 PM
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 26, 2007, 01:36:36 PM
The fact the Chet might spew aliens is no worse than Cameron turning them into giant ants. I dont see how anyone can call it breaking canon.
You're right, the Queen was not canon...but it's introduction was conducive to eggs with facehuggers...which was canon in the original film...he didn't change the existing lifecycle, he just added to it...
The predalien vomiting whatever it vomits down a persons throat is conducive to nothing in any previous film...therefore, breaking canon...
The predalien has never been in any previous film, so back to you old boy.... !
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 26, 2007, 01:49:20 PM
The predalien has never been in any previous film, so back to you old boy.... !
I seem to remember seeing it in at least one other film ;)
But anyway, the Queen found a place that fits the life cycle very naturally. It's easy to imagine she was always part of the plan. (Even thoguh we know she wasn't.)
Chet seems to be just pushing her way in like some drunk bitch at a party she wasn't invited to.
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 26, 2007, 01:49:20 PM
Quote from: Gates on Oct 26, 2007, 01:42:17 PM
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 26, 2007, 01:36:36 PM
The fact the Chet might spew aliens is no worse than Cameron turning them into giant ants. I dont see how anyone can call it breaking canon.
You're right, the Queen was not canon...but it's introduction was conducive to eggs with facehuggers...which was canon in the original film...he didn't change the existing lifecycle, he just added to it...
The predalien vomiting whatever it vomits down a persons throat is conducive to nothing in any previous film...therefore, breaking canon...
The predalien has never been in any previous film, so back to you old boy.... !
predalien is still an ALIEN.
but this is only my opinion but you know if you look at sharks for example... some sharks lay eggs and some just produce babies from it's belly. so i guess the biology could work.. oh well :-\
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 26, 2007, 01:49:20 PM
Quote from: Gates on Oct 26, 2007, 01:42:17 PM
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 26, 2007, 01:36:36 PM
The fact the Chet might spew aliens is no worse than Cameron turning them into giant ants. I dont see how anyone can call it breaking canon.
You're right, the Queen was not canon...but it's introduction was conducive to eggs with facehuggers...which was canon in the original film...he didn't change the existing lifecycle, he just added to it...
The predalien vomiting whatever it vomits down a persons throat is conducive to nothing in any previous film...therefore, breaking canon...
The predalien has never been in any previous film, so back to you old boy.... !
But we had Aliens form Human nad Dog in earlier films, and still none of them was acting different form known alien behavior patern. Why predalien should?
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 26, 2007, 01:50:40 PM
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 26, 2007, 01:49:20 PM
The predalien has never been in any previous film, so back to you old boy.... !
I seem to remember seeing it in at least one other film ;)
But anyway, the Queen found a place that fits the life cycle very naturally. It's easy to imagine she was always part of the plan. (Even thoguh we know she wasn't.)
Chet seems to be just pushing her way in like some drunk bitch at a party she wasn't invited to.
No doubt, I'm not disagreeing with anyone on the concept. I'm trying to tell them the movies are intact, no matter what Chet does.
QuoteNo doubt, I'm not disagreeing with anyone on the concept. I'm trying to tell them the movies are intact, no matter what Chet does.
Truth. She is a fu<king mutant.
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 26, 2007, 01:49:20 PM
The predalien has never been in any previous film, so back to you old boy.... !
Ugh...are we really going to play this game? Very well...I will play... ;)
Question: What is a predalien?
Answer: A normal fu<king alien that happens to birth from a predator.
Moral: It shouldn't have any special-make believe-retarded-ill conceived abilities because ultimately it is an alien.
Quote from: Master on Oct 26, 2007, 01:55:25 PM
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 26, 2007, 01:49:20 PM
Quote from: Gates on Oct 26, 2007, 01:42:17 PM
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 26, 2007, 01:36:36 PM
The fact the Chet might spew aliens is no worse than Cameron turning them into giant ants. I dont see how anyone can call it breaking canon.
You're right, the Queen was not canon...but it's introduction was conducive to eggs with facehuggers...which was canon in the original film...he didn't change the existing lifecycle, he just added to it...
The predalien vomiting whatever it vomits down a persons throat is conducive to nothing in any previous film...therefore, breaking canon...
The predalien has never been in any previous film, so back to you old boy.... !
But we had Aliens form Human nad Dog in earlier films, and still none of them was acting different form known alien behavior patern. Why predalien should?
True, both Earth based creatures, we have an Alien creature infecting an Alien. I'm not saying its right, i'm saying its not impossible, it does go against the grain, but only if you compare it to the other aliens, which you cant. This is the first time we've seen one of these.
Its been done for the plot, no doubt about that.
Quote from: Gates on Oct 26, 2007, 01:59:29 PM
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 26, 2007, 01:49:20 PM
The predalien has never been in any previous film, so back to you old boy.... !
Ugh...are we really going to play this game? Very well...I will play... ;)
Question: What is a predalien?
Answer: A normal fu<king alien that happens to birth from a predator.
Moral: It shouldn't have any special-make believe-retarded-ill conceived abilities because ultimately it is an alien.
No games dude, I'm telling it how it is... It might be dumb, it might be cheap, it might be the best idea since egg morphing, but it doesnt go against the other movies.
Watch these thing like reading a comic book. You'll enjoy it more! I think its a ballsy move, but i think its going to pay off. Only the alien hardcores will have big problems.
The general audience, AVP fans and predator fans , i think will like it.
what i'm really worried is that we might not see a queen anymore in avp3 because these predalien can serve the same purpose.. queen was left out only ONCE and i already miss her :'(
so, chet is a pred-alien-giant-facehugger???^^ its really new, such an idea, but in one way also very cool... something that looks like alien^^
and it explained why the mandibles are so large and not strict part of the mouth...
mmh, its a new idea, i like it, very alien-ness^^, but those szenes where chet hug different people, will maybe look like romantic patton^^
no^^, i like it
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 26, 2007, 02:08:52 PM
No games dude, I'm telling it how it is... It might be dumb, it might be cheap, it might be the best idea since egg morphing, but it doesnt go against the other movies.
Yes, it does. An Alien is an Alien is an Alien...unless the movie says that for some reason, Predator-born Aliens are totally different, with fleshy bits and reproductive puke?
Yeah Giger is freaking out right now.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 26, 2007, 02:10:53 PM
Yes, it does. An Alien is an Alien is an Alien...unless the movie says that for some reason, Predator-born Aliens are totally different, with fleshy bits and reproductive puke?
Stupid as it may seem, why not? Personally, I think it's just got it's words mixed up and it's just talking about egg morphing, which we've - as in staff here, had thought it to be due to some intel. It could be...interesting, if it was a face-hugger... :-\
QuoteIts been done for the plot, no doubt about that.
Between 'another cheap, empty, made for kind alien/predator film' and none, I would chose none. If they can`t done it right then don`t tuch it. We don`t need many weak attempts to make AvP film. We need one decent.
I think reproducing through an obscene 'kiss' is precisely the sort of thing Giger would like, actually.
As I say, I would have preferred egging, wholesale, but I'm just going to say that's the way to get Queens and this is the way to get regulars, unless something happens on screen to go against that.
Heck, maybe this is what Lambert was going through, for all that we know.
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 26, 2007, 02:08:52 PM
No games dude, I'm telling it how it is... It might be dumb, it might be cheap, it might be the best idea since egg morphing, but it doesnt go against the other movies.
Well that seems to be a matter of opinion and one that I disagree on...
QuoteWatch these thing like reading a comic book. You'll enjoy it more! I think its a ballsy move, but i think its going to pay off. Only the alien hardcores will have big problems.
Do you think it's wise to piss off a significant percentage of the fan base? I don't, infact it's equivalent to a slap in the face and a loud, "Fu<k you co<ksuckers we're still making our money"...
QuoteThe general audience, AVP fans and predator fans , i think will like it.
In this I agree with you, but that doesn't make it acceptable...
Yeah, we are going "back to the roots" ::) this is going to be a mix of alien, predator, and the faculty and all those sh*ty movies with the same repetitive and cheap method of impregnation. And theres no queen needed any more, a predalien can do everything, kill docens of predators and at the same time impregnate humans. Maybe in AVP3 we discover that the predalien can grow wings and fly too.
Very possible. It will also be able to fart mighty killing fog.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 26, 2007, 02:16:23 PM
I think reproducing through an obscene 'kiss' is precisely the sort of thing Giger would like, actually.
There's a lot of things that Giger likes, and I don't want most of 'em anywhere near a cinematic Alien.
Giger's best Alien contributions came through a filter.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 26, 2007, 02:10:53 PM
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 26, 2007, 02:08:52 PM
No games dude, I'm telling it how it is... It might be dumb, it might be cheap, it might be the best idea since egg morphing, but it doesnt go against the other movies.
Yes, it does. An Alien is an Alien is an Alien...unless the movie says that for some reason, Predator-born Aliens are totally different, with fleshy bits and reproductive puke?
Speculative, youve only seen them born of a human or an ox
Finally , i was waiting for an explanation why Chet's inner mouth is so long and thinner than the regular Alien . Enough length to crawl down the throat.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg231.imageshack.us%2Fimg231%2F4175%2F91570549vd9.png&hash=e57f3a464485d8b35b657f98257794563843c29c)
The inner mouth, judging by it's looks works just like the facehugger's. And in the red band trailer there was a scene right before impaling the predator with it's tale the predalien's mouth (predator mouth) was closed tusks on one another. So this could be feasible , the tusks hold the victim's head from escaping while the inner mouth impregnates the victim. So in this case the predalien serves the purpose of the face hugger rather than the queen.
I actually like this idea , though not as much as the egg morphing idea.
So, let me get this right, the Predalien will use it's inner jaw or perhaps some other tubething we yet to see and give the host a massive tongue kiss. In that process, he plants an embryo down there throat? I know that I have heard Giger talk about this idea on one of the documentary disc but I think the idea was killing not impregnating. But hey....a new concept, the Strauss's are up to something.
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 26, 2007, 02:30:39 PM
Speculative, youve only seen them born of a human or an ox
Human, ox, and dog. ;)
my mommy always said you can get pregnant by kissing a girl... yiewwwwwwwwwwww
that is gross!!
Quote from: Gates on Oct 26, 2007, 02:19:21 PM
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 26, 2007, 02:08:52 PM
The general audience, AVP fans and predator fans , i think will like it.
In this I agree with you, but that doesn't make it acceptable...
Well, that's exactly what happened with Transformers, before the movie came out, everybody was nitpicking it, but magically it became the biggest blockbuster of the year. Of course AVP:R doesn't have that budget, but you get my point. If people like it, it doesn't matter what the fanboys think! ;)
I think at this point all is just especulation, let's wait for the movie, shall we?
Quotebut magically it became the biggest blockbuster of the year
Transformers took a huge shit all over its sauce material. It was terrible. Fact is; Giant robots + hot girl + "AMERICA f**k YEAH!" attitude = popular with the masses (of idiots).
Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Oct 26, 2007, 03:05:58 PM
Quotebut magically it became the biggest blockbuster of the year
Transformers took a huge shit all over its sauce material. It was terrible. Fact is; Giant robots + hot girl + "AMERICA f**k YEAH!" attitude = popular with the masses (of idiots).
transformer was one of my guilty pleasure... i thought it was EXTREMELY entertaining. the story was pure crap and immature but the action was worth seeing, the visuals were phenomenal and i think every one agrees with me even those that didnt like it.
Anyway, back on topic...
I like the giant facehugger idea. Also it looks like they're making fun of Spider-man by putting a facehugger looking ting on Chet's chest. Or maybe I'm reading too much into it... but yeah I'm guessing that it can lay multiple embryos. I like this idea better than one facehugger laying multiples...
WARNING - LONG POST AHEAD - FOR HIGHLAND EYES ONLY... JUST KIDDING... ;D ;)
Those were concepts that prevailed AND were in-character, so don't start the victory dance just yet, Highland... ;D
The Super-facehugger idea should have been in the theatrical all along because it makes more sense and explained the single egg shot much more clearly...A Queen and a drone to protect it... Perfect sense...
Now, THIS does not make any sense at all... This RC has no relationship with the previous ones, and this is far worse than a Queen design (which most love anyway, including me) and the superfacehugger, which the Assembly Cut rightfully placed back...
The Queen notion was naturally derivative from the eggs that were in the Derelict (perfectly logical) and the superfacehugger is a concept that is very credible as, for preservation of the species, the Queen should not be born and left unpretected while growing up and vulnerable to any possible predators and therefore risking the preservation of the species...
So it would be natural (and quite brilliant also) that the facehugger containing the Queen embryo would also have the drone embryo, the protector... Hence the Superfacehugger design and concept... a bigger facehugger than usual and with the crown...
About the sci-fi joke, have you ever seen 2001...? I guess not, because if you did, then you would know that SCIence FIction means Fiction scientifically viable... Meaning, futuristic settings where the fictionalised story takes place, with scientifically viable and/or possible notions... Isaac Asimov, Carl Sagan, they all wrote Sci-fi books translated into movies, and they ALL were Sci-fi movies, and they all had either feasible technology, real physics, possible technologically sound futuristic worlds, but all with roots in real astronomical, phsyical and chemical realities...
Ash in Alien used scientific terminology to analyse the facehugger...Ripley's commands during liftoff from the planet were realistic... Cryostasis... Planet's atmosphere components...
In Aliens, no ray guns, rather caseless rounds weapons, Ferro and Spunkmeyer's techno and pilot babble before landing... The notion of thermonuclear explosions...
So, try a little harder... And don't make mistakes like that... the term SCIENCE FICTION says it all... Keyword - SCIENCE... ;D ;)
Therefore, it has to be grounded on reality or a possible one...
The Alien movies were founded on real physics... even the Alien was studied and analysed with scientific terminology (aminoacids, proteins, sillicon...)...
So, don't try to sell that crap...
I liked Alien movies especially because they were grounded on reality, or a possible future... They had a realistic approach to it, not the Star Wars approach... The ships were designed by Ron Cobb, who was professed to like things that could actually be built...
So, with all this source material, how can you keep a straight face saying that if I like movies founded on reality, I cannot like Sci-fi movies...?
The best sci-fi movies are the ones that are visionary, like 2001...fully based on reality or a possible, viable reality, namely, real astronomical and technological concepts, or the ones that create a plausible future within 10, 20 , 100 years... Alien movies did that, with corporate power, corporate paranoia, corporate backstabbing, corporate greed...
Even the Alien RC was built on plausibility...if it was too farfetched or without any logic attached to it, it would not have gathered so many fans, I assure you... ;)
Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Oct 26, 2007, 03:05:58 PM
Quotebut magically it became the biggest blockbuster of the year
Transformers took a huge shit all over its sauce material. It was terrible. Fact is; Giant robots + hot girl + "AMERICA f**k YEAH!" attitude = popular with the masses (of idiots).
I liked Transformers...
;D
Quote from: WisePredator on Oct 26, 2007, 03:43:45 PM
Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Oct 26, 2007, 03:05:58 PM
Quotebut magically it became the biggest blockbuster of the year
Transformers took a huge shit all over its sauce material. It was terrible. Fact is; Giant robots + hot girl + "AMERICA f**k YEAH!" attitude = popular with the masses (of idiots).
I liked Transformers...
;D
Didn't see it, won't see it... Too dumb concept...liked them when I was 5...but in cartoon form only... ;D :D ;)
Any person above 18 seeing it should be shot on sight... And I am not kidding... And the studios who do them should be checked by the IRS and devoided of half the proceeds from it...Maybe that would teach them... ;D :D
I loved the movie, but I still say the designs looked bad. It was the actions of the Cybertronians that were great, like Starscream transforming in mid-air as he blew apart F-22's. Megatron, in particular, just looked saddening. Prime was about the only situation where they tried to merge the original concept with a modern touch. Other than that, the other designs were just overkill.
Naw, man...Jazz was a great job. Closer to a G1 than even Prime, IMO.
Jazz was pretty close, I have to admit. But then he got torn in half.
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Oct 26, 2007, 03:48:37 PM
Quote from: WisePredator on Oct 26, 2007, 03:43:45 PM
Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Oct 26, 2007, 03:05:58 PM
Quotebut magically it became the biggest blockbuster of the year
Transformers took a huge shit all over its sauce material. It was terrible. Fact is; Giant robots + hot girl + "AMERICA f**k YEAH!" attitude = popular with the masses (of idiots).
I liked Transformers...
;D
Didn't see it, won't see it... Too dumb concept...and liked them when I was 5...and in cartoon form... ;D :D ;)
Shia's character was dumb and so where some of the other humans I only liked it for the robots, and Megan Fox.
The Predalien has one bad case of coodies! I feel bad for the host!
Yutani mate, long, but pointless.
My sci fi comment was worded wrong so i apologise. I have no problem with things being grounded in Reality. But your comments were in reference to the idea of the RC being lame and also being non cannon, then trying to give me evidence for it.
The Aliens RC aint real mate, It was picked out someones ass, just like this idea. So it has nothing to to with Science fact. Only fiction. Sure there are references in the living world, but it stops at that. You cant bring those references inside this franchise. They are for inspiration only.
If someone wants to add to that fiction, they can, as long as it doesnt break any rules that were establised, which it doesnt. Its never been establised that an Embryo infecting another Alien doesnt have this out come.
It breaks no previous evidence, because there is none.
I'm not saying I like it or hate it, I'm saying they can do what they like with this creature, and they have.
This is really, really saddening.
Already there...
Why are they doing this to their reproduction system? I hope to god that it is the first stage of egg-morphing, because i can accept that. If it means that all of a sudden a chestburster pops out, then screw that crap.
Hooray!!!..The Strauses have found a way to inject sex and love into this franchise...The predalien is a very randy creature that thinks the chick in the hospital bed is super sexy...His seed will be implanted into her mouth...great job, Bravo, a 21 gun salute to you...I think you have reached an all time low...
A kiss is just a kiss, but a french kiss from the Predalien is a magical and life giving sexual experience
I don't believe it will be egg morphing, remember they are trying to cut corners here, very low budget. With this new idea they don't have to make any eggs for the movie. The only reson they put facehuggers at the beginning in the stasis tubes is because whats an Alien movie without those facehuggers, there would have been an uproaring from the fans. So with this new reproduction idea they cut some expences and make things more simple. Whether fans like it or not is a different story.
I don't know what to think of this idea. I'll have to wait until I see the movie to judge. Hopefully, it is egg-morphing.
Wasn't this idea of an alien puking out eggs into peoples mouths done in another sci fi movie.
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 26, 2007, 04:28:46 PM
Yutani mate, long, but pointless.
My sci fi comment was worded wrong so i apologise. I have no problem with things being grounded in Reality. But your comments were in reference to the idea of the RC being lame and also being non cannon, then trying to give me evidence for it.
The Aliens RC aint real mate, It was picked out someones ass, just like this idea. So it has nothing to to with Science fact. Only fiction. Sure there are references in the living world, but it stops at that. You cant bring those references inside this franchise. They are for inspiration only.
If someone wants to add to that fiction, they can, as long as it doesnt break any rules that were establised, which it doesnt. Its never been establised that an Embryo infecting another Alien doesnt have this out come.
It breaks no previous evidence, because there is none.
I'm not saying I like it or hate it, I'm saying they can do what they like with this creature, and they have.
So, the RC that has been there for four movies, AVP included, allows some leeway for this...?
And so canon disappears...like if it never existed.... ::)
Quote from: Naissus on Oct 26, 2007, 06:09:09 PM
Wasn't this idea of an alien puking out eggs into peoples mouths done in another sci fi movie.
reminds me of The Faculty , little parasites crawling in your ear :P
Chet is officially Not Queen.
Long live "The Great Regurgitator"!
Seriously I hope this leads to egg morphing.
Where's a Colin when you need one?
This is so unnacceptable. Even if it is the new bullshit way of saying "this is how the aliens have always egg morphed people, it just wasn't shown onscreen." ::).
I don't buy the "she's a mutant, so its okay" bullshit. Personally I would have rather had the crashed spaceship contain more facehuggers in stasis or a shitload of eggs about 30 or so. That plus the predalien would still have been enough aliens to make the movie interesting and for them to wreak havoc in the town. One alien has been known to kill dozens of people in the other films, so it would have been plausible that 30 plus a predalien could have overrun a town.
Lazy ass fox, couldn't shell out money to have ADI do all the eggs required. How can you have an alien film without eggs? So if this is the case, how can this be related to egg morphing? They need to have worked on the eggs that the people are morphed into, wouldn't that take the same amount of time and effort as sculpting the eggs not related to it?
Or maybe they made one and are going to use it over and over, so you'll only see one egg morphed victim onscreen at a time, which is also lame, since it would have more of an impact to see cocooned victims who are now eggs, lining the hive walls en masse.
Anyone who thinks that its a predator trait received by the dna reflex should just play in traffic. lol
That is retarded. Obviously i'd assume predators reproduce sexually, they are humanoid after all and even if not mammals, they have some mammalian traits.
The 1st time i saw the pick of the PredAlien over the hospital patient i sort of thought it might involve some sort of reproduction. Yeah... i don't really know what to think about it. I guess i'm not opposed to the idea but they should have just made the Predalien a Queen if they wanted it to reproduce, at least that's my opinion.
Quote from: Naissus on Oct 26, 2007, 06:09:09 PM
Wasn't this idea of an alien puking out eggs into peoples mouths done in another sci fi movie.
If so, i guarantee it was a bad one.
wow thats queeer and stoopid they should have just had a queen
OK guys...I'm just brainstorming this idea, cuz although it sounds scary/kinda cool, I too see it as pointless when thats the whole purpose of having a queen, so I'll have to see it before I go judging but anyway...Could it be possible that a predalien is actually what all aliens are supposed to be? I mean like the aliens evolved along with predator, with predators being the natural host, so a predalien is the "normal" alien...and having DNA from humans/dog/ox just lacks something that it takes from the pred DNA..but still, that idea still renders queen pointless, except between breeding-predaliens, a queen an all those huggers that would be a lot of multiplying...but then again, whats the point of bringing a victim to the hive when you can impregnate it yourself??? I just wanna make sense of this so badly lol...hopefully its the egg-morphing idea. But like Highland said, they can do whatever they want with it. So ... :P
Quote from: SMJ on Oct 26, 2007, 07:13:26 PM
But like Highland said, they can do whatever they want with it. So ... :P
Of course they
can...they can have Chet sing the national anthem if they want.
Doesn't mean people are gonna like it.
Quote from: SMJ on Oct 26, 2007, 07:13:26 PM
OK guys...I'm just brainstorming this idea, cuz although it sounds scary/kinda cool, I too see it as pointless when thats the whole purpose of having a queen, so I'll have to see it before I go judging but anyway...Could it be possible that a predalien is actually what all aliens are supposed to be? I mean like the aliens evolved along with predator, with predators being the natural host, so a predalien is the "normal" alien...and having DNA from humans/dog/ox just lacks something that it takes from the pred DNA..but still, that idea still renders queen pointless, except between breeding-predaliens, a queen an all those huggers that would be a lot of multiplying...but then again, whats the point of bringing a victim to the hive when you can impregnate it yourself??? I just wanna make sense of this so badly lol...hopefully its the egg-morphing idea. But like Highland said, they can do whatever they want with it. So ... :P
They can do whatever they want because they've got creative control..however they SHOULDN'T. That is disrespectful to the fans and to what ridley scott, james cameron,..etc. have taken part in creating. If they try and say its canon because you never saw how the alien in the director's cut of alien morphed brett into an egg, i will be pissed. Its quite a bitchslap to the collective fanbase from the directors/and or fox.
We're supposed to pretend that if it is indeed related to egg morphing, that the alien puking in a hosts mouth was always part of the lifecycle? I don't think so.
The anchorpoint essays contradict this idea, and sure they may be made up of fan speculation, but it makes more sense than this. Also whatever happened to egg morphing only used a last resort to produce a queen?
One of the other problems just featuring egg morphing in the film is going to cause, let alone add ridiculous bullshit on top it.
It's not a terrible idea. I assume this is the method of how egg morphing begins...which doesn't contradict anything as we never see how the egg morphing process is started. It's not great, but I can live with it.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 26, 2007, 07:20:21 PM
Quote from: SMJ on Oct 26, 2007, 07:13:26 PM
But like Highland said, they can do whatever they want with it. So ... :P
Of course they can...they can have Chet sing the national anthem if they want.
Doesn't mean people are gonna like it.
I didn't say people were gonna like it...Just tryin to make sense of it cause I don't wanna hate it...I'm willing to give it a chance though...
Quote from: SMJ on Oct 26, 2007, 07:30:57 PM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 26, 2007, 07:20:21 PM
Quote from: SMJ on Oct 26, 2007, 07:13:26 PM
But like Highland said, they can do whatever they want with it. So ... :P
Of course they can...they can have Chet sing the national anthem if they want.
Doesn't mean people are gonna like it.
I didn't say people were gonna like it...Just tryin to make sense of it cause I don't wanna hate it...I'm willing to give it a chance though...
sadly i can't give it a chance. Im just going to have to try to see if there are enough redeeming factors in the film and how good the rest of it comes together cohesively to make enough sense and tell an interesting story. I remember a post I made a while ago, where I said I would walk out of the theaters if egg morphing was featured. lol, I won't do that but that really puts this in perspective. Just the fact that regular egg morphing without extra, non-canon regurgitation bullshit was enough to piss me off back then.
Now this is worse. Its just one of the reasons why I never liked the egg morphin idea. Its too iffy and there are too many ambiguities and weird directions it can take.
The whole "we didn't see how something was done, therefore our new stuff is canon" is lame. They could have invented a dozen different bullsht ways of explaining how an alien starts the egg morphing process. What's next, squatting over the person's head and shitting slime down their throat? Hey you never saw what the alien did in the director's cut of alien, so therefore it doesn't break canon. ::)
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 26, 2007, 07:21:26 PM
They can do whatever they want because they've got creative control..however they SHOULDN'T. That is disrespectful to the fans and to what ridley scott, james cameron,..etc. have taken part in creating. If they try and say its canon because you never saw how the alien in the director's cut of alien morphed brett into an egg, i will be pissed. Its quite a bitchslap to the collective fanbase from the directors/and or fox.
We're supposed to pretend that if it is indeed related to egg morphing, that the alien puking in a hosts mouth was always part of the lifecycle? I don't think so.
The anchorpoint essays contradict this idea, and sure they may be made up of fan speculation, but it makes more sense than this. Also whatever happened to egg morphing only used a last resort to produce a queen?
One of the other problems just featuring egg morphing in the film is going to cause, let alone add ridiculous bullshit on top it.
Rediculous bullshit...YES. Rediculous bullshit WITHOUT an expanation = MORE rediculous. ( to me, I mean ;) )
The only explanation I fear though, is budget...Damn it. I'm trying to like this idea... :-\ lol
Quote from: SMJ on Oct 26, 2007, 07:30:57 PM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 26, 2007, 07:20:21 PM
Quote from: SMJ on Oct 26, 2007, 07:13:26 PM
But like Highland said, they can do whatever they want with it. So ... :P
Of course they can...they can have Chet sing the national anthem if they want.
Doesn't mean people are gonna like it.
I didn't say people were gonna like it...Just tryin to make sense of it cause I don't wanna hate it...I'm willing to give it a chance though...
There is no chance for disrespect in my book. And this is disrespectful for the majority on fanbase.
Quote from: Alienseseses on Oct 26, 2007, 06:20:45 PM
Chet is officially Not Queen.
Long live "The Great Regurgitator"!
Seriously I hope this leads to egg morphing.
Where's a Colin when you need one?
Colin is not here to avoid lots of questions and atacks addresed to him. I am not surprised. In very short time this topic gained twelve pages of mostly disapointment, and after reading this he will probably wait some time before writeing anything.
Quote from: Master on Oct 26, 2007, 07:41:11 PM
Quote from: SMJ on Oct 26, 2007, 07:30:57 PM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 26, 2007, 07:20:21 PM
Quote from: SMJ on Oct 26, 2007, 07:13:26 PM
But like Highland said, they can do whatever they want with it. So ... :P
Of course they can...they can have Chet sing the national anthem if they want.
Doesn't mean people are gonna like it.
I didn't say people were gonna like it...Just tryin to make sense of it cause I don't wanna hate it...I'm willing to give it a chance though...
There is no chance for disrespect in my book. And this is disrespectful for the majority on fanbase.
Quote from: Alienseseses on Oct 26, 2007, 06:20:45 PM
Chet is officially Not Queen.
Long live "The Great Regurgitator"!
Seriously I hope this leads to egg morphing.
Where's a Colin when you need one?
Colin is not here to avoid lots of questions and atacks addresed to him. I am not surprised. In very short time this topic gained twelve pages of mostly disapointment, and after reading this he will probably wait some time before writeing anything.
Disrespectful? So the fans are supposed to just shut their mouths and not complain about anything, and let the alien and predator franchises they grew up on, just disintegrate at the asinine new directions taken in the latest film to feature them?
First of all let me state that I have never been negative just for the sake of it, I tried to give everything a chance. I didn't just make up my mind that this movie was going to be bad, solely based on what I saw in the first avp, even though some people might indeed have. But there are things which you can't ignore. If something makes no sense, who can you blame other than the people responsible for it?
I was rooting for the strausse brothers, I was enthusiastic about lots of shit in this film, but this turn of events is just lame. I never expected such a disapointment as this. Makes you wonder what other disapointments are in store. >:(
What's different here from most other bitching, is that a lot of the people bitching now are people who had a generally positive outlook on things.
Well it sounds kinda stupid, but maybe on scren it'll be really frightening who knows?
I actually like the idea.
When there is no Queen the alpha alien has the ability to extend the hive this way. It doesn't f**k up the life cycle at all since we've never seen such a thing in the progress before, although this might show what happened to Lambert. And I think it's a something new and kinda terrifying. Don't think of vomiting. Think about the sexual aspect of that thing: practically it's like the Alien's forcing it's semen into the victim's mouth. Now that's really disturbing.... :o
DB
Thats right Sil, I just noticed that. I'm about as positive as they come, and even I'm choking whilst trying to swallow this news...
Quote from: Dragonblaster on Oct 26, 2007, 07:56:04 PM
I actually like the idea.
When there is no Queen the alpha alien has the ability to extend the hive this way. It doesn't f**k up the life cycle at all since we've never seen such a thing in the progress before, although this might show what happened to Lambert. And I think it's a something new and kinda terrifying. Don't think of vomiting. Think about the sexual aspect of that thing: practically it's like the Alien's forcing it's semen into the victim's mouth. Now that's really disturbing.... :o
DB
Yes, that is true...but who says this is offical where'd it come from?
QuoteDisrespectful? So the fans are supposed to just shut their mouths and not complain about anything, and let the alien and predator franchises they grew up on, just disintegrate at the asinine new directions taken in the latest film to feature them?
First of all let me state that I have never been negative just for the sake of it, I tried to give everything a chance. I didn't just make up my mind that this movie was going to be bad, solely based on what I saw in the first avp, even though some people might indeed have. But there are things which you can't ignore. If something makes no sense, who can you blame other than the people responsible for it?
I was rooting for the strausse brothers, I was enthusiastic about lots of shit in this film, but this turn of events is just lame. I never expected such a disapointment as this. Makes you wonder what other disapointments are in store.
I think that you did not understand me. Disrespectful, is what they are doing with francise now. Things for which we loved Alien are now being changed for cheaper retarded version, just to save money given for production of this film. This is sad. Just sad that we who love those films (alien series , predator serise) the most, are now being treated as mojority of kids that will buy crap anyway.
Quote from: Dragonblaster on Oct 26, 2007, 07:56:04 PM
It doesn't f**k up the life cycle at all since we've never seen such a thing in the progress before,
If it don't lead to egg morphing, then the Bros can take their 'canon' comment and shove it up their collective ass. And then rotate.
i mean the inclusion of this vomiting bullshit whether its to start the egg morphing process or not, is hard to swallow. pun intended. It seems absurd to assume that this has always been the instinctual behavior of an alien. Its not just gross, its too b-movie. More so than necessary.
Because of this, it already demotes the film to the level of alien:resurrection. Where some stuff was cool or decent but when it got to the part with the newborn, it became weird and in a shitty direction. I guess watching avp-r will be like that. It will seem ok, with some cool stuff, most stuff not breaking canon, and even being a nod to the classic films and then..bam! puking in someone's throat. Something new just for the sake of being new.
Quote from: Master on Oct 26, 2007, 07:58:53 PM
I think that you did not understand me. Disrespectful, is what they are doing with francise now. Things for which we loved Alien are now being changed for cheaper retarded version, just to save money given for production of this film. This is sad. Just sad that we who love those films (alien series , predator serise) the most, are now being treated as mojority of kids that will buy crap anyway.
I'm with you I've just gone into a state of psychotic denyal...what if its a genetically modified Predalien? Like the preds made it so it'd be easyer to contain and move around than the queen for alien breeding purposes??? Hell I don't know man...
Quote from: Dragonblaster on Oct 26, 2007, 07:56:04 PM
I actually like the idea.
When there is no Queen the alpha alien has the ability to extend the hive this way. It doesn't f**k up the life cycle at all since we've never seen such a thing in the progress before, although this might show what happened to Lambert. And I think it's a something new and kinda terrifying. Don't think of vomiting. Think about the sexual aspect of that thing: practically it's like the Alien's forcing it's semen into the victim's mouth. Now that's really disturbing.... :o
DB
aliens don't have semen first of all. Secondly lambert was not egg morphed.
They are now unofficialy treated as another P.Anderson aka. "screwer of the francises".
Quote from: Master on Oct 26, 2007, 07:58:53 PM
QuoteDisrespectful? So the fans are supposed to just shut their mouths and not complain about anything, and let the alien and predator franchises they grew up on, just disintegrate at the asinine new directions taken in the latest film to feature them?
First of all let me state that I have never been negative just for the sake of it, I tried to give everything a chance. I didn't just make up my mind that this movie was going to be bad, solely based on what I saw in the first avp, even though some people might indeed have. But there are things which you can't ignore. If something makes no sense, who can you blame other than the people responsible for it?
I was rooting for the strausse brothers, I was enthusiastic about lots of shit in this film, but this turn of events is just lame. I never expected such a disapointment as this. Makes you wonder what other disapointments are in store.
I think that you did not understand me. Disrespectful, is what they are doing with francise now. Things for which we loved Alien are now being changed for cheaper retarded version, just to save money given for production of this film. This is sad. Just sad that we who love those films (alien series , predator serise) the most, are now being treated as mojority of kids that will buy crap anyway.
oh ok. you meant disrespectful TO the fanbase not FOR. lol.
Engllish not your first language?
No it isn`t and I`am also really tired today. Sorry for the mistake.
Well, honestly its not that bad, its not destroying cannon because no one ever said its never happened and second it could have something to do with it being a Predalien. we've never seen one before so it is posible Aliens adapt, if it is a "Ultimate surviver" then it can adapt and you get anger for it adapting? Not the best idea but i mean honestly do you think when people saw Aliens they said, "What the Heck we never shall that thing before that shouldn't happen because the origanal didn''t have it" if you want a sequal to Alien that doesn't have anything new in it you will have aboreing movie and might as well hand them the script from "Alien" and have them make that. If anyything this makes Aliens Scarier and more dangerours
For me it`s make them just to simple and out of taste.
Don't worry the hype machine will kick into full gear soon..all our questions will be answered and all our worries will be put to rest...Have Faith!!!!
Quote from: Master on Oct 26, 2007, 08:08:55 PM
For me it`s make them just to simple and out of taste.
to simple? it makes themm more complex....gives them more reproduction ways
How about everyone just watch the movie and then make judgments on it. No one has said there won't be any eggs, have they?
So just wait for the movie to come out, go see it, then come back here and complain if there is something wrong because right now all everyone is doing is speculating on statements from the press here and there
I really do hate this.
"Shut up and see the movie."
Great! Screw the advertisement, just see it anyway.
I've not read this thread but I don't get what the quote means. Is it about egg morphing or what? How's it supposed to work? I wish they wouldn't screw with the life cycle like this.
Quote from: ace3g on Oct 26, 2007, 08:13:05 PM
How about everyone just watch the movie and then make judgments on it. No one has said there won't be any eggs, have they?
So just wait for the movie to come out, go see it, then come back here and complain if there is something wrong because right now all everyone is doing is speculating on statements from the press here and there
Of course! We will just let the war to start, because evidences from spys and our own inteligence are not reliable enough.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 26, 2007, 08:11:28 PM
Quote from: Master on Oct 26, 2007, 08:08:55 PM
For me it`s make them just to simple and out of taste.
to simple? it makes themm more complex....gives them more reproduction ways
Yeah simple. Original reproduceing method was much more complexed and interesting. Cuting out few parts form reproduction cylce, can`t be honestly called "more complex" can it?
First of all most fans of the Aliens and Predator are going to see the movie no matter what; I mean I had my doubts about the first AVP but I still saw it anyway and that was without advertisements. I ended up hating it anyway but I still saw it.
I'm just saying everyone is basing their opinions on trailers, production shots, and interviews, yes I know that is all we have right now, but still go see the movie first and then state your opinion
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 26, 2007, 08:01:46 PM
Quote from: Dragonblaster on Oct 26, 2007, 07:56:04 PM
I actually like the idea.
When there is no Queen the alpha alien has the ability to extend the hive this way. It doesn't f**k up the life cycle at all since we've never seen such a thing in the progress before, although this might show what happened to Lambert. And I think it's a something new and kinda terrifying. Don't think of vomiting. Think about the sexual aspect of that thing: practically it's like the Alien's forcing it's semen into the victim's mouth. Now that's really disturbing.... :o
DB
aliens don't have semen first of all. Secondly lambert was not egg morphed.
We didn't see what would have happened to Lambert. And then even if this new method didn't lead to egg-morphing (something I even find more ridiculous) wouldn't mean to f**k up the cycle.
Looking at ALIEN:
There's one Alien that wants to create a new hive.So it catches prey.
The egg (Brett) created by egg-morphing could have contained a queen hugger since the most important thing for a hive is the queen. Dallas doesn't necessarily have to transform into an egg, he could have been impregnated like the new method might show and give birth to a Chestburster. Same goes for Lambert.
When there's a new Queen eggs can be layed and a new cycle can begin.
Easy as that so where's a problem there ?
DB
Quote from: Darkness on Oct 26, 2007, 08:17:51 PM
I've not read this thread but I don't get what the quote means. Is it about egg morphing or what? How's it supposed to work? I wish they wouldn't screw with the life cycle like this.
Well, we don't know...i don't think we even know if its offical or where it came from....but when people complain about changes in the life cycle...Aliens are adaptable that's their major trait. you think if a hive lost its Queen the Aliens would triddle their thumbs and wait to all be killed, no they'd adapt thus making them scaier
Crom can you comment on this?
Quote from: ace3g on Oct 26, 2007, 08:19:24 PM
First of all most fans of the Aliens and Predator are going to see the movie no matter what;
True. But like hell I'm paying (The DVD rental place down the road has some excellent deals on a regular basis).
QuoteI'm just saying everyone is basing their opinions on trailers, production shots, and interviews, yes I know that is all we have right now, but still go see the movie first and then state your opinion
...You do realise that's the entire point of having the trailers, production shots, and interviews, yes? To generate opinions?
It's like saying don't breathe oxygen, wait until we grow out of lungs altogether.
Quote from: Master on Oct 26, 2007, 08:18:55 PM
Of course! We will just let the war to start, because evidences from spys and our own inteligence are not reliable enough.
Yeah simple. Original reproduceing method was much more complexed and interesting. Cuting out few parts form reproduction cylce, can`t be honestly called "more complex" can it?
[/quote]
Its not simple...its showing Aliens have more ways to reproduce that's complex
Before my point gets lost here:
Even if this new method didn't lead to egg-morphing (something I even find more ridiculous) wouldn't mean to f**k up the cycle.
Looking at ALIEN:
There's one Alien that wants to create a new hive.So it catches prey.
The egg (Brett) created by egg-morphing could have contained a queen hugger since the most important thing for a hive is the queen. Dallas doesn't necessarily have to transform into an egg, he could have been impregnated like the new method might show and give birth to a Chestburster. Same goes for Lambert.
When there's a new Queen eggs can be layed and a new cycle can begin.
Easy as that so where's a problem there ?
DB
yes, but people can be mislead by trailers and pictures, somethings don't even make the final cut; certain lines can be changed, scenes taking out or added in, etc.
Plus everyone is going to want to see the movie to see what the big suprise the Strause's have been talking about.
Like someone else said, that quote about the Predalien regurgitating the chestbursters into humans could have been a misprint or misunderstood
If this method of reproduction bypasses eggs and huggers altogether, yes, it contradicts the DC of Alien.
Did you even read what I wrote ? ???
Quote from: Master on Oct 26, 2007, 08:59:19 AM
I hope he is an Idiot. And 12 alien suits dosen·t mean 12 aliens.
No, but it does mean less than fifty. They also say we won't see fifty digitally placed in screen.
Which makes me wonder what the 'population' preview was meant to signify, if not the growing number of creatures being bred there.
Quote from: Procurator on Oct 26, 2007, 02:33:11 PM
Finally , i was waiting for an explanation why Chet's inner mouth is so long and thinner than the regular Alien . Enough length to crawl down the throat.
They've always been long, once they fully extend. It was part of why the head is as long as it is. There's at least one scene in '
Alien 3', where the prisoner is rescued from its grasp, for the mouth to fully extend and it does so by about a mile.
QuoteThe inner mouth, judging by it's looks works just like the facehugger's. And in the red band trailer there was a scene right before impaling the predator with it's tale the predalien's mouth (predator mouth) was closed tusks on one another. So this could be feasible , the tusks hold the victim's head from escaping while the inner mouth impregnates the victim. So in this case the predalien serves the purpose of the face hugger rather than the queen.
Unfortunately, the way ADI have designed the mouth, the mandibles don't look as strong as they
should have been. That 3D Custom Foam model was how they more or less should have been. These ones, while long and fangy, look like they could be torn off or easily dislocated, because of how they have been located.
In fact, I'm fearing that wolf missing one is going to foreshadow it doing precisely the same thing to the Predalien, in an unfortunately predictable attempt at foreshadowing.
Quote from: Alienseseses on Oct 26, 2007, 06:20:45 PM
Where's a Colin when you need one?
Hiding. :)
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 26, 2007, 08:01:46 PM
Secondly lambert was not egg morphed.
No, but if I'm right about egging being to create Queens and this being to make regulars, then this could have been what happened with that character.
Just a theory, of course, but that's the only way I can think of how this could settle with canon, personally.
Quote from: Dragonblaster on Oct 26, 2007, 08:29:24 PM
Did you even read what I wrote ? ???
Yees, and if it doesn't lead to egg morphing it's a continuity error. We don't know what happened to Lambert, but we have absolutely no reason to assume it was this.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:27:17 PM
If this method of reproduction bypasses eggs and huggers altogether, yes, it contradicts the DC of Alien.
where does anywhere say it can't happen? if it skips it that makes it adaptable
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:32:46 PM
Quote from: Dragonblaster on Oct 26, 2007, 08:29:24 PM
Did you even read what I wrote ? ???
Yees, and if it doesn't lead to egg morphing it's a continuity error. We don't know what happened to Lambert, but we have absolutely no reason to assume it was this.
There could be egg-morphing AND that new method. But that doesn't mean one thing has to lead to another. That's the point of what I'm saying.
Sounds like it's leading to egg-morphing to me. And I don't think that through the mouth is such a bad way to do it. Makes sense in fact.
If it is not morphing, however, sounds like a cheap way to skip eggs and queen. so...uh oh.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:32:46 PM
Quote from: Dragonblaster on Oct 26, 2007, 08:29:24 PM
Did you even read what I wrote ? ???
Yees, and if it doesn't lead to egg morphing it's a continuity error. We don't know what happened to Lambert, but we have absolutely no reason to assume it was this.
We've never seen what the phase of reproduction was between a young queen and a fully aged egg laying queen. Continuity has not only been maintained, but expanded upon.
So the Predalien is a young Queen?
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:36:26 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:32:46 PM
Quote from: Dragonblaster on Oct 26, 2007, 08:29:24 PM
Did you even read what I wrote ? ???
Yees, and if it doesn't lead to egg morphing it's a continuity error. We don't know what happened to Lambert, but we have absolutely no reason to assume it was this.
We've never seen what the phase of reproduction was between a young queen and a fully aged egg laying queen. Continuity has not only been maintained, but expanded upon.
Thank you...been trying to help you and tell them that....but are you saying it takes time for a Queen to start laying eggs...in AR bad example but still the Queen in it started laying eggs pretty fast
And I think it's a good way to expand it.
But that's just me so...
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:36:26 PM
We've never seen what the phase of reproduction was between a young queen and a fully aged egg laying queen. Continuity has not only been maintained, but expanded upon.
...Yeah, actually.
We have.
Young Queens don't reproduce.
Alien Resurrection? Hello?
For f**k's sake.
Another thing about this that doesn't make sense and will break continuity, if it indeed is what kicks off the egg morphing process, is that brett was abducted and cocooned to the wall before the alien started turning him into an egg.
If the predalien just clamps his mandibles onto the face of the woman in the hospital and carrie adams and pukes or drools in their mouth, it contradicts this fact. So it seems less and less like egg morphing and more like a new shitty direction altogether.
the facts about egg morphing that have been establlished are:
-person is abducted, even possibly injured first and then cocooned in the nest/hive.
-It is the last resort of a lone warrior alien when no hive or queen is present. and only produces an egg
with a queen facehugger, and no more egg morphing will follow upon its hatching.
So the directors decided to elevate the egg morphing to the level of queen egg laying, as if its not a secondary reproductive ability. This makes no sense, and eliminates the need for a queen, if the egg morphing is just as fast and efficient as the rate in which a queen lays eggs. (if it indeed is related to egg morphing)
Also they are changing the egg morphing to now produce normal eggs. By the number of aliens produced this way it becomes more and more unlikely that one of them would not contain a queen. I thought it had been establilshed that if there is no queen, and there is an egg, the warrior aliens could in a sense, turn it into a queen facehugger egg. Why wouldn't they do that here? For all this egg morphing to be taking place and not a queen produced, just defies logic.
A queen needs to build it's army to protect her before making herself mostly defenseless when laying eggs. We have now established what that phase it.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:40:45 PM
A queen needs to build it's army to protect her before making herself mostly defenseless when laying eggs. We have now established what that phase it.
Ah!
So it is a queen.
Oh boy, you're going to get a lot of flake for that, Colin. ;D
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:40:45 PM
A queen needs to build it's army to protect her before making herself mostly defenseless when laying eggs. We have now established what that phase it.
Oh God this is getting worse and worse.
ADI. Alien 3. Super hugger? Lays two embryos? Drone, to protect Queen, and Queen?
Drone capable of making more Aliens to protect Queen through egg morphing?
Queen being born a Queen and not molting into one?
Continuity's not been maintained. It's been blatantly ignored.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:40:45 PM
A queen needs to build it's army to protect her before making herself mostly defenseless when laying eggs. We have now established what that phase it.
OK I'm digging this now...I new I trusted Colin for some reason lol Thanks for answering Colin. I appreciate that unexpected input ;)
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:43:03 PM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:40:45 PM
A queen needs to build it's army to protect her before making herself mostly defenseless when laying eggs. We have now established what that phase it.
Oh God this is getting worse and worse.
ADI. Alien 3. Super hugger? Lays two embryos? Drone, to protect Queen, and Queen?
Drone capable of making more Aliens to protect Queen through egg morphing?
Queen being born a Queen and not molting into one?
Continuity's not been maintained. It's been blatantly ignored.
You are such a funny person. First you hate how "Aliens" turned them into simple "bugs," but now that you find out that they are complex creatures you want them to be like simple bugs. ::)
Well, so what? At least it brings scariness and terror back to the franchise. None of the haters on this board would have done any better with an original idea.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:45:00 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:43:03 PM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:40:45 PM
A queen needs to build it's army to protect her before making herself mostly defenseless when laying eggs. We have now established what that phase it.
Oh God this is getting worse and worse.
ADI. Alien 3. Super hugger? Lays two embryos? Drone, to protect Queen, and Queen?
Drone capable of making more Aliens to protect Queen through egg morphing?
Queen being born a Queen and not molting into one?
Continuity's not been maintained. It's been blatantly ignored.
You are such a funny person. First you hate how "Aliens" turned them into simple "bugs," but now that you find out that they are complex creatures you want them to be like simple bugs. ::)
Coming this winter!
CVS-R!
Colin vs. Sil Requiem!
Quote from: SMJ on Oct 26, 2007, 08:44:14 PM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:40:45 PM
A queen needs to build it's army to protect her before making herself mostly defenseless when laying eggs. We have now established what that phase it.
OK I'm digging this now...I new I trusted Colin for some reason lol Thanks for answering Colin. I appreciate that unexpected input ;)
And in A:R that queen was YOUNG but still fully grown guys. The pred-queen (if that is what it is) is still in an intermediate stage. For all we know it would (if alive long enough) molt again and THEN grow the second arms and be bigger and start growing the more impressive crown.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:40:45 PM
A queen needs to build it's army to protect her before making herself mostly defenseless when laying eggs. We have now established what that phase it.
That honestly makes alot of sense the Queen would need to be able to defend herself before...also to your credit with the idea AR really didn't give us a timeline of how long they were there
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:45:00 PM
You are such a funny person. First you hate how "Aliens" turned them into simple "bugs," but now that you find out that they are complex creatures you want them to be like simple bugs. ::)
And yet I'd never say 'Nope, no Queen! No sir! Egg morphing aall the way!'
What we've got here is a blatant contradiction of what we've seen before, it's as simple as that. Queen born a Queen? Nope, now we have Queen molting. Drones turning people into eggs? Nope, now we've got baby Queens barfing into people. Juvenile Queens not capable of reproducing? Nope, barfing!
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:45:00 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:43:03 PM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:40:45 PM
A queen needs to build it's army to protect her before making herself mostly defenseless when laying eggs. We have now established what that phase it.
Oh God this is getting worse and worse.
ADI. Alien 3. Super hugger? Lays two embryos? Drone, to protect Queen, and Queen?
Drone capable of making more Aliens to protect Queen through egg morphing?
Queen being born a Queen and not molting into one?
Continuity's not been maintained. It's been blatantly ignored.
You are such a funny person. First you hate how "Aliens" turned them into simple "bugs," but now that you find out that they are complex creatures you want them to be like simple bugs. ::)
Search the threads, this is not the first instance of hypocrisy I've seen, far from it. :)
on the surface, the regurgitation method of reproduction is rediculus! i was hoping this movie wouldnt try 2 mak any drastic changes to the franchises but i guess that dream is dead. that sayd, i hav always wonderd how a queen might reproduce after becoming detached form the ovipositer...i guess ill hav 2 wait and c the movie to mak a decent opinion.
I like how this might show what actually happened to Lambert.
And this is some kind of rape, too.
Quote from: Alienseseses on Oct 26, 2007, 08:46:28 PM
Coming this winter!
CVS-R!
Colin vs. Sil Requiem!
LIVE SHOW
How does it show what happened to Lambert?
The Alien in that movie wasn't a young Queen.
Quote from: Dragonblaster on Oct 26, 2007, 08:48:54 PM
I like how this might show what actually happened to Lambert.
And this is some kind of rape, too.
Oh, it is.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:49:41 PM
How does it show what happened to Lambert?
The Alien in that movie wasn't a young Queen.
Just about to say that, Sil.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:50:06 PM
Quote from: Dragonblaster on Oct 26, 2007, 08:48:54 PM
I like how this might show what actually happened to Lambert.
And this is some kind of rape, too.
Oh, it is.
Love it ;D
And the reason for "alien pukeing" is " she need to protect herselve"? I don`t get it and still think that it is just a shity, stupid idea. So queen`s facehugger can implant two embryos just for fun?
I`m so tired of it........
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:40:45 PM
A queen needs to build it's army to protect her before making herself mostly defenseless when laying eggs. We have now established what that phase it.
Far be it from me to argue with the director of a film, being a lowly nobody and mere fan, but i must say wtf? So this is indeed not related to egg morphing then?
However never before was there officially a phase in which a queen can do any reproducing until it is ready to lay eggs. That is just too convenient. And what ever happened to the "there is no queen in this film" quote? Even if the predalien never finishes the transition into full grown queen, a transitional queen still counts as a queen.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:49:41 PM
How does it show what happened to Lambert?
The Alien in that movie wasn't a young Queen.
Where do you think the queen came from in Aliens? Perhaps one of the domiant warriors became a young and queen and started the process. The simple fact is that it has never been shown before, so what are you arguing about?
Colin, I hope you're talking about the rape part, not the Lambert part.
Some weather we're having in the mountains.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:49:41 PM
How does it show what happened to Lambert?
The Alien in that movie wasn't a young Queen.
Who doesn't say it might have become one ? We only saw a short period of it's life...
so is it a PredQueen....a Pre-PredQueen?
Well, if the queen didnt make some aliens to protect her first, something like, i dont know, a PREDATOR could just walk right in and blow her the f**k away. This makes sense to me. And I love it. I shall be scorned along with you then Colin lol. :D
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:51:52 PM
Where do you think the queen came from in Aliens? Perhaps one of the domiant warriors became a young and queen and started the process. The simple fact is that it has never been shown before, so what are you arguing about?
...Honestly, did you ever watch any movie made after
Aliens? Queens are born Queens.
By the way, egg-morphing was cut out of the theatrical cut.
So forget about it right now.
In Alien we had an alien killing without a cause.
In Aliens we saw a queen.
I agree with Colin.
Except with:
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:51:52 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:49:41 PM
How does it show what happened to Lambert?
The Alien in that movie wasn't a young Queen.
Where do you think the queen came from in Aliens? Perhaps one of the domiant warriors became a young and queen and started the process. The simple fact is that it has never been shown before, so what are you arguing about?
There was a superfacehugger in A3 for that purpose, and we saw a burster queen.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:53:25 PM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:51:52 PM
Where do you think the queen came from in Aliens? Perhaps one of the domiant warriors became a young and queen and started the process. The simple fact is that it has never been shown before, so what are you arguing about?
...Honestly, did you ever watch any movie made after Aliens? Queens are born Queens.
All I've seen is that these very complex creatures find a way to reproduce in strange and unique ways... hence them being Aliens and not simple bugs.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:54:39 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:53:25 PM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:51:52 PM
Where do you think the queen came from in Aliens? Perhaps one of the domiant warriors became a young and queen and started the process. The simple fact is that it has never been shown before, so what are you arguing about?
...Honestly, did you ever watch any movie made after Aliens? Queens are born Queens.
All I've seen is that these very complex creatures find a way to reproduce in strange and unique ways... hence them being Aliens and not simple bugs.
Like i was saying adaptablitly anyone...can i have a witness?
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:53:25 PM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:51:52 PM
Where do you think the queen came from in Aliens? Perhaps one of the domiant warriors became a young and queen and started the process. The simple fact is that it has never been shown before, so what are you arguing about?
...Honestly, did you ever watch any movie made after Aliens? Queens are born Queens.
We dont know that, sometimes yeahh maybe, but if there is no queen i dont see the problem then that an alien will become one to reproduce their species.
What Johnny said, and I believe Colin was making a point, not being literal with the alien becoming a queen in "aliens" comment
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:54:39 PM
All I've seen is that these very complex creatures find a way to reproduce in strange and unique ways... hence them being Aliens and not simple bugs.
So basically no, or at least, you did see them, didn't care, and decided to do your own thing for the hell of it.
We've never seen Aliens fart lightning bolts, either. How many times does Chet do that throughout the movie?
Sil for god sakes its a complament to the Aliens and you still attack him!!!
Wow, what a fight!
I'll be right back. Out of popcorn.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:57:00 PM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:54:39 PM
All I've seen is that these very complex creatures find a way to reproduce in strange and unique ways... hence them being Aliens and not simple bugs.
So basically no, or at least, you did see them, didn't care, and decided to do your own thing for the hell of it.
We've never seen Aliens fart lightning bolts, either. How many times does Chet do that throughout the movie?
Do you really want the same reproduce shit in every movie and nothing new?
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 08:58:44 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:57:00 PM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:54:39 PM
All I've seen is that these very complex creatures find a way to reproduce in strange and unique ways... hence them being Aliens and not simple bugs.
So basically no, or at least, you did see them, didn't care, and decided to do your own thing for the hell of it.
We've never seen Aliens fart lightning bolts, either. How many times does Chet do that throughout the movie?
Do you really want the same reproduce shit in every movie and nothing new?
Yea that basically spot on
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 26, 2007, 08:58:04 PM
Sil for god sakes its a complament to the Aliens and you still attack him!!!
Cos it's a stupid compliment! You can't just piss around everything that was established in over twenty years of cinematic history for the hell of it. Egg morphing is creepy, it's Alien, it's disgusting ... why not just use that?
But if pre-queen can reproduce then why she bother to molt to egg layer? This whole think does not make sense. She could just run around and implant everyone she want. Only I and Sil can see that this is stupid idea made just to save budget, and shorten time between implantation and fully grown alien?
Hey, I understand were Sil is coming from. The lifecycle seems like it just got more complicated.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:59:45 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 26, 2007, 08:58:04 PM
Sil for god sakes its a complament to the Aliens and you still attack him!!!
Cos it's a stupid compliment! You can't just piss around everything that was established in over twenty years of cinematic history for the hell of it. Egg morphing is creepy, it's Alien, it's disgusting ... why not just use that?
Cause it was cut from the first movie!
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:40:45 PM
A queen needs to build it's army to protect her before making herself mostly defenseless when laying eggs. We have now established what that phase it.
If the predalien can defend itself against a skilled, and battle scarred predator with advanced weaponry, How would it need other aliens to defend it? Besides this other reproductive method is going to produce all the aliens in the film, meaning the predalien delays laying eggs for that long? huh? You'd think by the time there were at least 10-20 aliens that some could stay behind to defend her in the hive.
I doubt the process should take this long for a queen to fully mature. Considering that within hours a chestburster molts into a fully grown adult, and also that the aliens have lost the smooth cowls and have the ridged heads, that the queen would be almost completely fully grown halfway through the film.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:59:45 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 26, 2007, 08:58:04 PM
Sil for god sakes its a complament to the Aliens and you still attack him!!!
Cos it's a stupid compliment! You can't just piss around everything that was established in over twenty years of cinematic history for the hell of it. Egg morphing is creepy, it's Alien, it's disgusting ... why not just use that?
Egg morphing would have been nice too and what also was placed was Aliens are adaptable this is adapting and you can't agure with that...
making Aliens les bug like and more complex is a stupid compliment...taking you on record Sil
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 08:58:44 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:57:00 PM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:54:39 PM
All I've seen is that these very complex creatures find a way to reproduce in strange and unique ways... hence them being Aliens and not simple bugs.
So basically no, or at least, you did see them, didn't care, and decided to do your own thing for the hell of it.
We've never seen Aliens fart lightning bolts, either. How many times does Chet do that throughout the movie?
Do you really want the same reproduce shit in every movie and nothing new?
I'm with you, I want some new stuff, and if they can blend it in with what has already been established, I'm all for it.
From Colin's comments, does this imply that Chet is not a Queen but simply a vessel to get a queen. And if so, is this confirmation that there is a Queen. I hope so, I don't really want 50 Aliens all being produced in this oral impregnation.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 26, 2007, 09:01:46 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:59:45 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 26, 2007, 08:58:04 PM
Sil for god sakes its a complament to the Aliens and you still attack him!!!
Cos it's a stupid compliment! You can't just piss around everything that was established in over twenty years of cinematic history for the hell of it. Egg morphing is creepy, it's Alien, it's disgusting ... why not just use that?
Egg morphing would have been nice too and what also was placed was Aliens are adaptable this is adapting and you can't agure with that...
making Aliens les bug like and more complex is a stupid compliment...taking you on record Sil
He doesnt know what he wants himself.
But it´s avp- and new right?
It
has to be shitty, now i will love the movie even more, thank you colin for the info.
Pure awesomeness, dont you agree sil? :)
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:54:39 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:53:25 PM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:51:52 PM
Where do you think the queen came from in Aliens? Perhaps one of the domiant warriors became a young and queen and started the process. The simple fact is that it has never been shown before, so what are you arguing about?
...Honestly, did you ever watch any movie made after Aliens? Queens are born Queens.
All I've seen is that these very complex creatures find a way to reproduce in strange and unique ways... hence them being Aliens and not simple bugs.
That very well might be true. But it doesn't mean you can make up absolutely anything to fill the gap of the unknown, i know its only a film and its science fiction, but still.
I guess Sil just wants simple Bugs.... how sad.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 26, 2007, 09:01:26 PM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:40:45 PM
A queen needs to build it's army to protect her before making herself mostly defenseless when laying eggs. We have now established what that phase it.
If the predalien can defend itself against a skilled, and battle scarred predator with advanced weaponry, How would it need other aliens to defend it? Besides this other reproductive method is going to produce all the aliens in the film, meaning the predalien delays laying eggs for that long? huh? You'd think by the time there were at least 10-20 aliens that some could stay behind to defend her in the hive.
I doubt the process should take this long for a queen to fully mature. Considering that within hours a chestburster molts into a fully grown adult, and also that the aliens have lost the smooth cowls and have the ridged heads, that the queen would be almost completely fully grown halfway through the film.
If she's sitting there breeding she surely wouldn't just want to stand up and kill whoever's in the hive. She has a lot of Alien warriors to defend it while she's producing more eggs. And the more Aliens the better for her and the hive ;)
The idea isen't that crazy how this works...i think there is some bug that does this...pukes into its host and it gives the babies some food
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 26, 2007, 09:04:19 PM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:54:39 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:53:25 PM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:51:52 PM
Where do you think the queen came from in Aliens? Perhaps one of the domiant warriors became a young and queen and started the process. The simple fact is that it has never been shown before, so what are you arguing about?
...Honestly, did you ever watch any movie made after Aliens? Queens are born Queens.
All I've seen is that these very complex creatures find a way to reproduce in strange and unique ways... hence them being Aliens and not simple bugs.
That very well might be true. But it doesn't mean you can make up absolutely anything to fill the gap of the unknown, i know its only a film and its science fiction, but still.
If he can fill it with something terrifying that works, why not ?
And it does work, at least for me.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 09:04:50 PM
I guess Sil just wants simple Bugs.... how sad.
Or maybe I want directors who pay attention to the films?
Is that too much to ask?
I may not like Alien Resurrection, but I'm not going to ignore the fact it pretty much blatantly said the Queen can't reproduce until she's all grown up. We already have egg morphing, which is
more than alien and creepy enough, yet
you feel it's necessary to come up with lame-ass
barfing?
Egg morphing is alien. Barfing is something out of
Futuram.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 09:04:50 PM
I guess Sil just wants simple Bugs.... how sad.
Sil wants to see the same shit over and over again.
I really like the idea, it´s new and fresh and shows some new motivations of the aliens and ways to reproduce, im all for it.
Why are facehuggers in this film? If predalien can implant embyos, so why to bother. You could save money on facehuggers design :P
And when facehuggers alreday are in this film, they would make enough drones to protect juvenile queen.
Egg morphing hasn't been seen used since 1979. How is that just using the same old stuff over and over?
Quote
I may not like Alien Resurrection, but I'm not going to ignore the fact it pretty much blatantly said the Queen can't reproduce until she's all grown up.
Then again, she had human DNA, hell, at the end of the movie she wasnt even laying eggs anymore.
You should spend more attention sil.
Quote from: Dragonblaster on Oct 26, 2007, 09:04:54 PM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 26, 2007, 09:01:26 PM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:40:45 PM
A queen needs to build it's army to protect her before making herself mostly defenseless when laying eggs. We have now established what that phase it.
If the predalien can defend itself against a skilled, and battle scarred predator with advanced weaponry, How would it need other aliens to defend it? Besides this other reproductive method is going to produce all the aliens in the film, meaning the predalien delays laying eggs for that long? huh? You'd think by the time there were at least 10-20 aliens that some could stay behind to defend her in the hive.
I doubt the process should take this long for a queen to fully mature. Considering that within hours a chestburster molts into a fully grown adult, and also that the aliens have lost the smooth cowls and have the ridged heads, that the queen would be almost completely fully grown halfway through the film.
If she's sitting there breeding she surely wouldn't just want to stand up and kill whoever's in the hive. She has a lot of Alien warriors to defend it while she's producing more eggs. And the more Aliens the better for her and the hive ;)
If one alien in alien 3 was enough defense for the queen that would be born and took out a shitload of people. Why are the two warrior aliens born from the hunter and his son not sufficient. One could stay behind in the hive, while the other grabs hosts. Don't tell me bullshit about people having guns and being more numerous than the aliens, because neither of those things would affect the aliens natural instincts.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 09:07:05 PM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 09:04:50 PM
I guess Sil just wants simple Bugs.... how sad.
Or maybe I want directors who pay attention to the films?
Is that too much to ask?
I may not like Alien Resurrection, but I'm not going to ignore the fact it pretty much blatantly said the Queen can't reproduce until she's all grown up. We already have egg morphing, which is more than alien and creepy enough, yet you feel it's necessary to come up with lame-ass barfing?
Egg morphing is alien. Barfing is something out of Futuram.
Sil watch alien and stay awake during Ash's speechs...he calls them adaptable...ultimate adapability having multiple ways to reproduce...
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 09:07:05 PM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 09:04:50 PM
I guess Sil just wants simple Bugs.... how sad.
Or maybe I want directors who pay attention to the films?
Is that too much to ask?
I may not like Alien Resurrection, but I'm not going to ignore the fact it pretty much blatantly said the Queen can't reproduce until she's all grown up. We already have egg morphing, which is more than alien and creepy enough, yet you feel it's necessary to come up with lame-ass barfing?
Egg morphing is alien. Barfing is something out of Futuram.
How could they see a young Queen could reproduce like that ? The Queen was hold captive for god's sake. So they only knew of the egg cycle...
I love how something is "lame-ass" when you haven't seen it at all.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 26, 2007, 09:09:05 PM
Quote from: Dragonblaster on Oct 26, 2007, 09:04:54 PM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 26, 2007, 09:01:26 PM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:40:45 PM
A queen needs to build it's army to protect her before making herself mostly defenseless when laying eggs. We have now established what that phase it.
If the predalien can defend itself against a skilled, and battle scarred predator with advanced weaponry, How would it need other aliens to defend it? Besides this other reproductive method is going to produce all the aliens in the film, meaning the predalien delays laying eggs for that long? huh? You'd think by the time there were at least 10-20 aliens that some could stay behind to defend her in the hive.
I doubt the process should take this long for a queen to fully mature. Considering that within hours a chestburster molts into a fully grown adult, and also that the aliens have lost the smooth cowls and have the ridged heads, that the queen would be almost completely fully grown halfway through the film.
If she's sitting there breeding she surely wouldn't just want to stand up and kill whoever's in the hive. She has a lot of Alien warriors to defend it while she's producing more eggs. And the more Aliens the better for her and the hive ;)
If one alien in alien 3 was enough defense for the queen that would be born and took out a shitload of people. Why are the two warrior aliens born from the hunter and his son not sufficient. One could stay behind in the hive, while the other grabs hosts. Don't tell me bullshit about people having guns and being more numerous than the aliens, because neither of those things would affect the aliens natural instincts.
The Queen wasen't born yet so that's y
And the A:R queen wouldnt have laid eggs before anyway, it would have puked into people and they had her contained so they didnt know that
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 09:09:37 PM
I love how something is "lame-ass" when you haven't seen it at all.
Exactly!!! Jeez!
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 09:09:37 PM
I love how something is "lame-ass" when you haven't seen it at all.
hey, they have seen the trailer, thats enough for them.
They can judge it now.
The Queen's messed-up nature only came into play the end,
after she'd gone through her
natural reproductive process.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 09:09:37 PM
I love how something is "lame-ass" when you haven't seen it at all.
Barf goes the PredAlien into the person's mouth, with all loving close-ups of icky goo and someone being forced to swallow.
Really. Gimme egg morphing any day.
Quote from: SMJ on Oct 26, 2007, 09:10:34 PM
And the A:R queen wouldnt have laid eggs before anyway, it would have puked into people and they had her contained so they didnt know that
Just like I said ;D
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:08:42 PM
Quote
I may not like Alien Resurrection, but I'm not going to ignore the fact it pretty much blatantly said the Queen can't reproduce until she's all grown up.
Then again, she had human DNA, hell, at the end of the movie she wasnt even laying eggs anymore.
You should spend more attention sil.
um.. that didn't mainfest itself until later in her development, for a while she had a normal egg laying cycle that was untainted for the most part. So it wouldn't change the fact that a queen doesn't necessarily have a cycle of any reproduction before it grows into an adult. That is just making shit up, 100% non-canon. in fact none of the comics even do anything like that.(and they have stupid shit, like royal jelly.etc.)
We've never seen this time period in a hives or Queens life so its an open field
QuoteReally. Gimme egg morphing any day.
I like the other idea more.
Quote from: Dragonblaster on Oct 26, 2007, 09:11:38 PM
Quote from: SMJ on Oct 26, 2007, 09:10:34 PM
And the A:R queen wouldnt have laid eggs before anyway, it would have puked into people and they had her contained so they didnt know that
Just like I said ;D
yeah i saw that right after i posted lol
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 26, 2007, 09:12:11 PM
We've never seen this time period in a hives or Queens life so its an open field
Exactly my point.
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:12:24 PM
QuoteReally. Gimme egg morphing any day.
I like the other idea more.
I like both ;D
Quote from: SMJ on Oct 26, 2007, 09:10:34 PM
And the A:R queen wouldnt have laid eggs before anyway, it would have puked into people and they had her contained so they didnt know that
See right there?
That's an excellent point.
But it still doesn't change the fact egg morphing would be infinitely better. It's slower and meaner and ickier. How does that make them like a bug? It doesn't. But it introduces a level of body-horror that you don't get these days.
Then again, the primary audience is teens. Must make it all gooey to get a reaction, yup yup.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 09:12:54 PM
Exactly my point.
Why wasn't egg morphing good enough for you?
I never liked egg-morohing, give me Colins idea anyday
Im intrigued by the way she reporduces, if done right it will make a really good adition to the life cycle. It should be creepy as anything to see at least. I just hope it isnt an instaneous thing, and the chestburster takes time to delelop. Also, this may be a stupid question..but is it possible these aliens will showcase slightly different traits?
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 09:11:10 PM
The Queen's messed-up nature only came into play the end, after she'd gone through her natural reproductive process.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 09:09:37 PM
I love how something is "lame-ass" when you haven't seen it at all.
Barf goes the PredAlien into the person's mouth, with all loving close-ups of icky goo and someone being forced to swallow.
Really. Gimme egg morphing any day.
first just because they are regurgitating doesn't mean we will actually see them throw up. picture it like this, Predalien mouth covers human mouth for a couple of seconds and that is it, no icky residue or anything like that , sort of how birds feed their young, everthing goes into the mouth with little to no "overflow"
I love this.
I don't like the new idea and I'm berated.
People don't like the old idea, suck up to the new one, and everyone's happy and pissing rainbows.
Quote from: SMJ on Oct 26, 2007, 09:10:34 PM
And the A:R queen wouldnt have laid eggs before anyway, it would have puked into people and they had her contained so they didnt know that
no it wouldn't have. You can't make up new shit and then pretend it was always the case, jsut because you never saw it in a film but nothing contradicts it in that film either. This is dumb, by this logic, anyone can add new unnecessary bullshit to the aliens lifecycle which was pretty much known and complete with no room for added complexity. What was already established was fine the way it was, everything made sense.
Quote from: SMJ on Oct 26, 2007, 09:14:09 PM
I never liked egg-morohing, give me Colins idea anyday
But "colins idea" is lacking. Don`t you see that?
Quote from: ace3g on Oct 26, 2007, 09:14:47 PM
first just because they are regurgitating doesn't mean we will actually see them throw up.
But this movie is 'intense' and 'hardcore' and all that buss-word bullshit.
QuoteWhy wasn't egg morphing good enough for you?
Why is colins way not good enough for you?
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:16:36 PM
Why is colins way not good enough for you?
Cos egg morphing is already around and so much better.
Well I take it this is the a young queens version of egg morphing. Because she is a queen she probably has a more advanced and quicker way to do this. It could work, time will tell.
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:16:36 PM
QuoteWhy wasn't egg morphing good enough for you?
Why is colins way not good enough for you?
We haven't seen it or heard every detail...Sil u might end up likeing it...if your not to busy falling asleep during Ash's speeches again
Oh well, this has been fun but it's time to get back to work.
Peace
Quote from: Master on Oct 26, 2007, 09:15:44 PM
Quote from: SMJ on Oct 26, 2007, 09:14:09 PM
I never liked egg-morohing, give me Colins idea anyday
But "colins idea" is lacking. Don`t you see that?
seriously, coming from someone who never even liked the egg morphing idea and thought it was controversial, I actually would prefer it to this nonsense.
It also ignores that Queens are born Queens. If Aliens just molted into Queens, why have them born?
Seriously, not only do we get barf, but we also get Queen molting?
What the f**k, honestly?
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 09:17:20 PM
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:16:36 PM
Why is colins way not good enough for you?
Cos egg morphing is already around and so much better.
Take the new reproduction method as showing what happens to Lambert.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 09:15:19 PM
I love this.
I don't like the new idea and I'm berated.
People don't like the old idea, suck up to the new one, and everyone's happy and pissing rainbows.
Sil you're predictable. I knew you'd say this. You always play the victim. You're opinions are fine but it's the way you come off. Like you know it all.
"Its not lacking, your lacking to see how it DOES work" ...we could do that all day man. I like it, I see it fitting in, you dont. I"m sorry for your loss bro. Lets not go hatin on people who don't agree with us.
Quote from: Dragonblaster on Oct 26, 2007, 09:18:39 PM
Take the new reproduction method as showing what happens to Lambert.
Except it isn't.
Quote from: echobbase79 on Oct 26, 2007, 09:18:47 PM
Sil you're predictable. I knew you'd say this. You always play the victim. You're opinions are fine but it's the way you come off. Like you know it all.
I'm just calling it like it is. Why can't we all piss rainbows over egg morphing?
OMG This is going insane. You people need to relax.
You're acting like this will ruin the whole movie. Oh, come on...it's not like we are going to see Chet vomiting in people's mouths from bed to bed for 30 minutes. I, for one didn't like the idea at first, but it works somehow, it's surelly a lot better than egg morphing (which is freaking absurd - I saw the cutted scene from Alien two days ago and it seemed so out of place, I felt like it screwed the whole movie). We'll just have to wait and see how it turns out. If it's such a big problem - don't see the movie, no one is forcing you to watch it.
I can understand the case for egg-morphing.
But with Queens already established, I don't see a problem with having an alien molt into a queen. seems like a reasonable adaptability to survive. a good touch.
My question would be if the queen should "settle down" once the hive is complete, seeing as by then there's solid protection. Since we see a hive somewhat in the preview I would think the predalien should be close to queen status. But of course I won't know the timing of it all until I see the movie.
So embryos are storaged in young queens throath? Just great.
Yeahh, but what if there is no queen and there are no eggs, like in this case?
I think an alien should then be able to grow into a queen to maintain the species.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 09:19:44 PM
Quote from: Dragonblaster on Oct 26, 2007, 09:18:39 PM
Take the new reproduction method as showing what happens to Lambert.
Except it isn't.
Quote from: echobbase79 on Oct 26, 2007, 09:18:47 PM
Sil you're predictable. I knew you'd say this. You always play the victim. You're opinions are fine but it's the way you come off. Like you know it all.
I'm just calling it like it is. Why can't we all piss rainbows over egg morphing?
But Sil not everyone is going to see it that way. those are your feelings and emotions towards the subject. which is fine, but don't act like everyone else should.
You love egg morphing, fine! But I don't and that should be fine too.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 09:19:44 PM
Quote from: Dragonblaster on Oct 26, 2007, 09:18:39 PM
Take the new reproduction method as showing what happens to Lambert.
Except it isn't.
Quote from: echobbase79 on Oct 26, 2007, 09:18:47 PM
Sil you're predictable. I knew you'd say this. You always play the victim. You're opinions are fine but it's the way you come off. Like you know it all.
I'm just calling it like it is. Why can't we all piss rainbows over egg morphing?
Hmmm....Good point :D
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 09:18:36 PM
It also ignores that Queens are born Queens. If Aliens just molted into Queens, why have them born?
Seriously, not only do we get barf, but we also get Queen molting?
What the f**k, honestly?
he never said it was a Queen, and its also adaptablitly but you do have apoint it would be pointelss to have them born. but once again....when was the Predalien said to not be born as a Queen if it is
If a normal Alien can molt into a Queen, than why was Ripley implanted with a Queen?
Quote from: Dragonblaster on Oct 26, 2007, 09:18:39 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 09:17:20 PM
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:16:36 PM
Why is colins way not good enough for you?
Cos egg morphing is already around and so much better.
Take the new reproduction method as showing what happens to Lambert.
what? lambert clearly was not the victim of any type of reproduction. Not even a real "tail rape". It was an ambigous tail related death. Possibly puncturing the lungs or the heart.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 09:18:06 PM
Oh well, this has been fun but it's time to get back to work.
Peace
To be continued in CVS-Annihilation.
I just dont see how the predalien gained this ability, and why the normal warriors dont have it, it makes no sence because they are the same creatures just with different species as hosts, but Im still trying to keep an open mind and see what happens.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 26, 2007, 09:24:14 PM
Quote from: Dragonblaster on Oct 26, 2007, 09:18:39 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 09:17:20 PM
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:16:36 PM
Why is colins way not good enough for you?
Cos egg morphing is already around and so much better.
Take the new reproduction method as showing what happens to Lambert.
what? lambert clearly was not the victim of any type of reproduction. Not even a real "tail rape". It was an ambigous tail related death. Possibly puncturing the lungs or the heart.
And you saw that ? Where ?
The only thing we could see was the tail going upwards as the Alien stood in front of her.
Quote from: AdamJZ on Oct 26, 2007, 09:24:52 PM
I just dont see how the predalien gained this ability, and why the normal warriors dont have it, it makes no sence because they are the same creatures just with different species as hosts, but Im still trying to keep an open mind and see what happens.
Who sais the Alien in ALIEN doesn't have that ability ?
And don't bother me with egg-morphing. I alrerady stated that both methods could work at the sam,e time for different purpooses.
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 26, 2007, 09:23:56 PM
If a normal Alien can molt into a Queen, than why was Ripley implanted with a Queen?
Why should an alien mold into a queen when an facehugger can directly reproduce a queen?
I think this is only a last resort thing for the aliens and only shows that they always find a way to reproduce, its expanded and new, why dont use.
Quote from: AdamJZ on Oct 26, 2007, 09:24:52 PM
I just dont see how the predalien gained this ability, and why the normal warriors dont have it, it makes no sence because they are the same creatures just with different species as hosts, but Im still trying to keep an open mind and see what happens.
supposedly its a young queen or its molting into one. (right out of the f**king games in all its non-canon entirety. Beware praetorians, ravagers, arachnids and zombies infected by chestbursters are next. ::)
Truth.
Who said the Predalien wasen't a Queen from the beganing?
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 26, 2007, 09:29:03 PM
Who said the Predalien wasen't a Queen from the beganing?
Chestburster who had no arms nor crest.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 26, 2007, 09:29:03 PM
Who said the Predalien wasen't a Queen from the beganing?
true, and we see the young process and how it molds into an adult queen, meanwhile it cant lay eggs, but... you know how it works now ;D
Queens are born Queens. We know this. They clearly look like Queens, with multiple limbs and a crown.
We also know that if an Alien can molt into a Queen, egg morphing, and Queens being born Queens, is entirely redundant.
I gave it some thought, and came up with that it's a genetic freak of nature and in no way indicative of what a normal Alien could do under normal circumstances. In a long enough time frame misshaps are going to happens, and that's what the PredAlien is; an abnormality, possibly caused by whatever steroids the Preds used the speed up the life cycle in AvP (yes, I'm accepting that bullshit for the sake of this argument) messing up how an Alien interacts with Pred biology and creating a hermaphroditic freak of nature with a mutated reproductive method.
It's not a Queen, or a drone, but a mix of both which can utilise a hybrid version of the available reproductive methods of both - Egg morphing and egg laying. If it molts throughout the movie, that's part of the f**k up.
There. Problem solved.
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:31:03 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 26, 2007, 09:29:03 PM
Who said the Predalien wasen't a Queen from the beganing?
true, and we see the young process and how it molds into an adult queen, meanwhile it cant lay eggs, but... you know how it works now ;D
Yea, and also the area doesn't look like the safest hive either
Quote from: Master on Oct 26, 2007, 09:30:40 PM
[
Chestburster who had no arms nor crest.
[/quote]
we didn't see it to long plus the Queen hugger hasen't been seen of screen
The Alien was not implanting Lambert with an embryo. WTF makes you think it was? When they made the film back in '79, the intention was to make it ambiguous and horrifying. Not to mention it wasn't a f**king young queen. Jesus...
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 26, 2007, 09:33:53 PM
The Alien was not implanting Lambert with an embryo. WTF makes you think it was? When they made the film back in '79, the intention was to make it ambiguous and horrifying. Not to mention it wasn't a f**king young queen. Jesus...
who said it wasen't?
Quote from: Master on Oct 26, 2007, 09:30:40 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 26, 2007, 09:29:03 PM
Who said the Predalien wasen't a Queen from the beganing?
Chestburster who had no arms nor crest.
Like the Queen they removed from Ripley at the beginning of Alien Resurrection?
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 26, 2007, 09:33:53 PM
The Alien was not implanting Lambert with an embryo. WTF makes you think it was? When they made the film back in '79, the intention was to make it ambiguous and horrifying. Not to mention it wasn't a f**king young queen. Jesus...
Listen to the audio commentary with ridley scott, he says that lambert has now alien semen in her because the alien would soon die and it had to reproduce.
Thats why ripley blows up the ship.
It was even meant to be so in 1979.
He is saying it clearly in the audio commentary.
Quote from: AdamJZ on Oct 26, 2007, 09:24:52 PM
I just dont see how the predalien gained this ability, and why the normal warriors dont have it, it makes no sence because they are the same creatures just with different species as hosts, but Im still trying to keep an open mind and see what happens.
As in my other thread i think my theory is in some way possible^^
preds reproduce with there mouths, thats why they have those mandibles... and this ability was given to the predalien by pred-dna...
but the question is, when they allowed to change something in the alien lifecycle or add soemthing, are they allowed to make something new to teh preds life? i think Yes they can, so that my theory isnt so bad at all, because when only chet has the abbility, then it must be from the pred-dna... but it doesnt explain why chet has something like a queen-crown?!
;)^^ ;D
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 26, 2007, 09:33:53 PM
The Alien was not implanting Lambert with an embryo. WTF makes you think it was? When they made the film back in '79, the intention was to make it ambiguous and horrifying. Not to mention it wasn't a f**king young queen. Jesus...
In the comentary of the dvd there was mentioned that after that "rape" scene you just knew there wasn't one Alien anymore.
Quote from: Scree on Oct 26, 2007, 09:37:18 PM
Quote from: Master on Oct 26, 2007, 09:30:40 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 26, 2007, 09:29:03 PM
Who said the Predalien wasen't a Queen from the beganing?
Chestburster who had no arms nor crest.
Like the Queen they removed from Ripley at the beginning of Alien Resurrection?
Very good point there, so the predalien could be a queen from the start.
The rez queen looked like a normal chestburster too.
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:37:33 PM
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 26, 2007, 09:33:53 PM
The Alien was not implanting Lambert with an embryo. WTF makes you think it was? When they made the film back in '79, the intention was to make it ambiguous and horrifying. Not to mention it wasn't a f**king young queen. Jesus...
Listen to the audio commentary with ridley scott, he says that lambert has now alien semen in her because the alien would soon die and it had to reproduce.
Thats why ripley blows up the ship.
It was even meant to be so in 1979.
He is saying it clearly in the audio commentary.
That's exactly what I wanted to say thank you :)
Quote from: Dragonblaster on Oct 26, 2007, 09:39:49 PM
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 26, 2007, 09:33:53 PM
The Alien was not implanting Lambert with an embryo. WTF makes you think it was? When they made the film back in '79, the intention was to make it ambiguous and horrifying. Not to mention it wasn't a f**king young queen. Jesus...
In the comentary of the dvd there was mentioned that after that "rape" scene you just knew there wasn't one Alien anymore.
Yes, this is true this reminded me of that...so really Sil even Ridely Scott disagrees...with you
Quote from: Dragonblaster on Oct 26, 2007, 09:39:49 PM
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 26, 2007, 09:33:53 PM
The Alien was not implanting Lambert with an embryo. WTF makes you think it was? When they made the film back in '79, the intention was to make it ambiguous and horrifying. Not to mention it wasn't a f**king young queen. Jesus...
In the comentary of the dvd there was mentioned that after that "rape" scene you just knew there wasn't one Alien anymore.
Listen to it again, he says what i mentioned.
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:37:33 PM
Listen to the audio commentary with ridley scott, he says that lambert has now alien semen in her because the alien would soon die and it had to reproduce.
Thats why ripley blows up the ship.
It was even meant to be so in 1979.
He is saying it clearly in the audio commentary.
No. No he doesn't. In
any audio commentary.
He says the Alien is dying because it has a short life cycle; he says that Brett and Dallas were taken as part of its life cycle. But he never once mentions Alien splooge.
Quote from: dDave on Oct 26, 2007, 09:38:58 PM
Quote from: AdamJZ on Oct 26, 2007, 09:24:52 PM
I just dont see how the predalien gained this ability, and why the normal warriors dont have it, it makes no sence because they are the same creatures just with different species as hosts, but Im still trying to keep an open mind and see what happens.
As in my other thread i think my theory is in some way possible^^
preds reproduce with there mouths, thats why they have those mandibles... and this ability was given to the predalien by pred-dna...
but the question is, when they allowed to change something in the alien lifecycle or add soemthing, are they allowed to make something new to teh preds life? i think Yes they can, so that my theory isnt so bad at all, because when only chet has the abbility, then it must be from the pred-dna... but it doesnt explain why chet has something like a queen-crown?!
;)^^ ;D
I have to admit, the thought of this reproduction has that gigerish dark sexual feel to it, so, I think it could work, but they should explain that only young queens have this ability or something. and not to discredit your theroy but there isnt really any evidence, nor any reason to believe that Predators reproduce with their mouths.
Quote from: dDave on Oct 26, 2007, 09:38:58 PM
Quote from: AdamJZ on Oct 26, 2007, 09:24:52 PM
I just dont see how the predalien gained this ability, and why the normal warriors dont have it, it makes no sence because they are the same creatures just with different species as hosts, but Im still trying to keep an open mind and see what happens.
As in my other thread i think my theory is in some way possible^^
preds reproduce with there mouths, thats why they have those mandibles... and this ability was given to the predalien by pred-dna...
but the question is, when they allowed to change something in the alien lifecycle or add soemthing, are they allowed to make something new to teh preds life? i think Yes they can, so that my theory isnt so bad at all, because when only chet has the abbility, then it must be from the pred-dna... but it doesnt explain why chet has something like a queen-crown?!
;)^^ ;D
No, I don't think this is a Pred feature.
Thank you, Sil.
That isn't the same thing as what we are talking about. Someone is saying that the barfing method is what was happening to Lambert. No, it wasn't. It is something made up for AVP-R, so why would it be part of a movie over 20 years old?
Quote from: Dragonblaster on Oct 26, 2007, 09:39:49 PM
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 26, 2007, 09:33:53 PM
The Alien was not implanting Lambert with an embryo. WTF makes you think it was? When they made the film back in '79, the intention was to make it ambiguous and horrifying. Not to mention it wasn't a f**king young queen. Jesus...
In the comentary of the dvd there was mentioned that after that "rape" scene you just knew there wasn't one Alien anymore.
no that was just ridley scott, emphasizing the fact that it was vague and ambigous, that you didn't know what really happened and thus it made it terrifying. I doubt he meant it literally.
Y'know, if we go by the freak of nature explanation, every inconsistency with the Alien's life-cycle in the AVP movies can be explained. Everybody wins!
That, or we cut ties canon wise.
I'm all for the latter.
And before anyone tries to reuse the old 'You just want bugs' crap ... get a clue, doofus.
QuoteBut he never once mentions Alien splooge
Not splooge, but somehow she had to be semed by the alien, i think now that the alien did that.
The point was that the alien somehow semed her, and not turning her into an egg.
Why?
Because even scott let that idea fall back then and had chosen the inseminating capability.
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:44:34 PM
Not splooge, but somehow she had to be semed by the alien, i think now that the alien did that.
The point was that the alien somehow semed her, and not turning her into an egg.
Why?
Because even scott let that idea fall back then and had chosen the inseminating capability.
No, he didn't.
He said the Alien raped her.
Rape =/= sex. In fact, most rape is done with a foreign object and about
domination, not sexual gratification.
Quote from: AdamJZ on Oct 26, 2007, 09:41:37 PM
Quote from: dDave on Oct 26, 2007, 09:38:58 PM
Quote from: AdamJZ on Oct 26, 2007, 09:24:52 PM
I just dont see how the predalien gained this ability, and why the normal warriors dont have it, it makes no sence because they are the same creatures just with different species as hosts, but Im still trying to keep an open mind and see what happens.
As in my other thread i think my theory is in some way possible^^
preds reproduce with there mouths, thats why they have those mandibles... and this ability was given to the predalien by pred-dna...
but the question is, when they allowed to change something in the alien lifecycle or add soemthing, are they allowed to make something new to teh preds life? i think Yes they can, so that my theory isnt so bad at all, because when only chet has the abbility, then it must be from the pred-dna... but it doesnt explain why chet has something like a queen-crown?!
;)^^ ;D
I have to admit, the thought of this reproduction has that gigerish dark sexual feel to it, so, I think it could work, but they should explain that only young queens have this ability or something. and not to discredit your theroy but there isnt really any evidence, nor any reason to believe that Predators reproduce with their mouths.
why not... we know that preds have mandibles and we know that the pred-women were stronger then males... maybe thats the reason why they have mandibles and maybe prde-females havent any mandibles.
so the mandibles were only for there sexual act, to catch the partner to, mmh^^, to f**k her in a different way^^... we dont know anything exactly about the life of preds, so everything is posssible and remember......preds are aliens too^^
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 26, 2007, 09:42:23 PM
Thank you, Sil.
That isn't the same thing as what we are talking about. Someone is saying that the barfing method is what was happening to Lambert. No, it wasn't. It is something made up for AVP-R, so why would it be part of a movie over 20 years old?
And we don't really know what happened to her. So what's wrong in explaining this by inventing this new method ?
Ya, well Scott also said that the Space Jockeys made the Aliens, but that isn't canon, so either is the Alien semen non sense. What is on screen or said is fact, if it isn't shown in any way, forget about it.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 09:46:01 PM
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:44:34 PM
Not splooge, but somehow she had to be semed by the alien, i think now that the alien did that.
The point was that the alien somehow semed her, and not turning her into an egg.
Why?
Because even scott let that idea fall back then and had chosen the inseminating capability.
No, he didn't.
He said the Alien raped her.
Rape =/= sex. In fact, most rape is done with a foreign object and about domination, not sexual gratification.
But that is not the thing, what happened exactly to her, fact is that he said (and this is 100% true) that she is now infected with an alien.
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:48:14 PM
But that is not the thing, what happened exactly to her, fact is that he said (and this is 100% true) that she is now infected with an alien.
I've listened to all three commentaries - 20th anniversary, Quadrilogy theatrical, Quadrilogy DC. Never once mentions her being infected with an Alien.
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 26, 2007, 09:46:48 PM
Ya, well Scott also said that the Space Jockeys made the Aliens, but that isn't canon, so either is the Alien semen non sense.
It will be canon now.
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 26, 2007, 09:46:48 PM
Ya, well Scott also said that the Space Jockeys made the Aliens, but that isn't canon, so either is the Alien semen non sense.
Why is it so impossible to believe that a Alien could reproduce by implanting embryos in a Person just like Facehuggers do, when it is in the situation of not being in a hive where a queen is laying eggs ?
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 09:49:11 PM
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:48:14 PM
But that is not the thing, what happened exactly to her, fact is that he said (and this is 100% true) that she is now infected with an alien.
I've listened to all three commentaries - 20th anniversary, Quadrilogy theatrical, Quadrilogy DC. Never once mentions her being infected with an Alien.
Yes he does.
I think it was on the first dvd released by fox, i still have it, and he said it.
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:49:22 PM
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 26, 2007, 09:46:48 PM
Ya, well Scott also said that the Space Jockeys made the Aliens, but that isn't canon, so either is the Alien semen non sense.
It will be canon now.
Right, nuff said ;)
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:51:05 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 09:49:11 PM
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:48:14 PM
But that is not the thing, what happened exactly to her, fact is that he said (and this is 100% true) that she is now infected with an alien.
I've listened to all three commentaries - 20th anniversary, Quadrilogy theatrical, Quadrilogy DC. Never once mentions her being infected with an Alien.
Yes he does.
I think it was on the first dvd released by fox, i still have it, and he said it.
Yeah I recall that too.
Well, seeing as how Sil is a way bigger Alien fan than either of you, and has probably listened to the commentary more than you, I'll go with him.
What's so difficult to accept that the Alien didn't use this method of reproduction on Lambert?
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:51:05 PM
Yes he does.
I think it was on the first dvd released by fox, i still have it, and he said it.
That's the 20th anniversary edition. I've listened to that commentary track 8 or so times. He doesn't say it.
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 26, 2007, 09:53:46 PM
Well, seeing as how Sil is a way bigger Alien fan than either of you, and has probably listened to the commentary more than you, I'll go with him.
What do you base that idea on ?
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 26, 2007, 09:53:46 PM
Well, seeing as how Sil is a way bigger Alien fan than either of you, and has probably listened to the commentary more than you, I'll go with him.
That is a cheap explanation, im one of the worlds biggest predfans (yes, i can say that), but sometimes i make mistakes about them too.
And YES, he´s wrong on that one, i remember it clearly.
Quote from: Dragonblaster on Oct 26, 2007, 09:54:54 PM
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 26, 2007, 09:53:46 PM
Well, seeing as how Sil is a way bigger Alien fan than either of you, and has probably listened to the commentary more than you, I'll go with him.
On what do you base that idea on ?
Have you read any of Sil's posts?
How come when suddenly a new movie emerges with a new concept, we have to try to connect it to the older films in some stupid way? So suddenly we know young queens can barf embryos, now we can say Lambert was barfed on? That's stupid.
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:56:35 PM
And YES, he´s wrong on that one, i remember it clearly.
Funny. I'm listening to it right now, and all he says is that he wanted to imply something really nasty. Nothing about impregnation, just the possibility of a really violent death, possibly rape.
QuoteThat's the 20th anniversary edition. I've listened to that commentary track 8 or so times. He doesn't say it.
Next time, put MUTE off then.
QuoteWhat's so difficult to accept that the Alien didn't use this method of reproduction on Lambert?
Whats so difficult to accept that it maybe did?
Whats your problem.?
I read a lot of his posts. But none of them gave me an idea why he's supposed top be a bigger fan of the Aliens than me. And why would that even matter for god's sake ?
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 09:57:53 PM
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:56:35 PM
And YES, he´s wrong on that one, i remember it clearly.
Funny. I'm listening to it right now, and all he says is that he wanted to imply something really nasty. Nothing about impregnation, just the possibility of a really violent death, possibly rape.
What minutes does he say that?
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:59:09 PM
What minutes does he say that?
Gimme ten minutes or so and I'll transcribe it for you, too.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 09:59:59 PM
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:59:09 PM
What minutes does he say that?
Gimme ten minutes or so and I'll transcribe it for you, too.
I need to know at what point in the movie he is saying that, i think he said it arround when ripley is seeing her dead body and then activates self destruct.
I know it was said in the commentary but I'm not sure who said the thing with her being impregnated. It could have been one of the actors.
But it WAS said
Oh what the hell I'm ging to check that now....
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:58:24 PM
QuoteWhat's so difficult to accept that the Alien didn't use this method of reproduction on Lambert?
Whats so difficult to accept that it maybe did?
Whats your problem.?
Because when they made Alien, the barfing lifecycle didn't exist. How does seeing a tail crawl slowly to the back of Lambert= barfed on?
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 26, 2007, 10:02:26 PM
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:58:24 PM
QuoteWhat's so difficult to accept that the Alien didn't use this method of reproduction on Lambert?
Whats so difficult to accept that it maybe did?
Whats your problem.?
Because when they made Alien, the barfing lifecycle didn't exist. How does seeing a tail crawl slowly to the back of Lambert= barfed on?
Maybe it did, the only thing that didnt exist at the time was the
queen.
So, did aliens broke continuity just for inventing something new?
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 26, 2007, 10:02:26 PM
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:58:24 PM
QuoteWhat's so difficult to accept that the Alien didn't use this method of reproduction on Lambert?
Whats so difficult to accept that it maybe did?
Whats your problem.?
Because when they made Alien, the barfing lifecycle didn't exist. How does seeing a tail crawl slowly to the back of Lambert= barfed on?
As I already said - you didn't see anything of what actually was happening to her. So why shouldn't someone use a new method to show something that fits ?
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 10:04:11 PM
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 26, 2007, 10:02:26 PM
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:58:24 PM
QuoteWhat's so difficult to accept that the Alien didn't use this method of reproduction on Lambert?
Whats so difficult to accept that it maybe did?
Whats your problem.?
Because when they made Alien, the barfing lifecycle didn't exist. How does seeing a tail crawl slowly to the back of Lambert= barfed on?
Maybe it did, the only thing that didnt exist at the time was the queen.
So, did aliens broke continuity just for inventing something new?
I knew it was only a matter of time before someone mentioned the queen and how that it was something new and never intended before "Aliens". But there is a clear difference, it makes sense. If you've got eggs, it is logical that an alien species which has some behavioral traits similar to insects, would have one that lays the eggs.
So its not just a matter of not seeing something before. If it makes sense in the lifecycle and doesn't overcomplicate things. But the "vomiting embyros" is just f**ked up and not necessary. How exactly does this work anyway, are we supposed to believe that the queen has chestburster embryos in its body that it can just spit up?
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 26, 2007, 10:08:32 PM
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 10:04:11 PM
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 26, 2007, 10:02:26 PM
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:58:24 PM
QuoteWhat's so difficult to accept that the Alien didn't use this method of reproduction on Lambert?
Whats so difficult to accept that it maybe did?
Whats your problem.?
Because when they made Alien, the barfing lifecycle didn't exist. How does seeing a tail crawl slowly to the back of Lambert= barfed on?
Maybe it did, the only thing that didnt exist at the time was the queen.
So, did aliens broke continuity just for inventing something new?
I knew it was only a matter of time before someone mentioned the queen and how that it was something new and never intended before "Aliens". But there is a clear difference, it makes sense. If you've got eggs, it is logical that an alien species which has some behavioral traits similar to insects, would have one that lays the eggs.
So its not just a matter of not seeing something before. If it makes sense in the lifecycle and doesn't overcomplicate things. But the "vomiting embyros" is just f**ked up and not necessary. How exactly does this work anyway, are we supposed to believe that the queen has chestburster embryos in its body that it can just spit up?
Thanks for elaborating. Cuz i grow weary. Same old stuff... i probably, with an essay, refuted something 99% similar to this for another franchise on some other board ::)
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 26, 2007, 10:08:32 PM
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 10:04:11 PM
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 26, 2007, 10:02:26 PM
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:58:24 PM
QuoteWhat's so difficult to accept that the Alien didn't use this method of reproduction on Lambert?
Whats so difficult to accept that it maybe did?
Whats your problem.?
Because when they made Alien, the barfing lifecycle didn't exist. How does seeing a tail crawl slowly to the back of Lambert= barfed on?
Maybe it did, the only thing that didnt exist at the time was the queen.
So, did aliens broke continuity just for inventing something new?
I knew it was only a matter of time before someone mentioned the queen and how that it was something new and never intended before "Aliens". But there is a clear difference, it makes sense. If you've got eggs, it is logical that an alien species which has some behavioral traits similar to insects, would have one that lays the eggs.
So its not just a matter of not seeing something before. If it makes sense in the lifecycle and doesn't overcomplicate things. But the "vomiting embyros" is just f**ked up and not necessary. How exactly does this work anyway, are we supposed to believe that the queen has chestburster embryos in its body that it can just spit up?
You havent seen avp-r yet, maybe it will make sense when the you see the movie.
Okay, I just listened to the 20th Anniversary Edition commentary on the very scene, and he says nothing about Alien semen. All he says is that hearing it makes it much more horrifying than seeing it. That's it. Than he immediately changes subjects to about the audience being in the characters' position.
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 26, 2007, 10:09:57 PM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 26, 2007, 10:08:32 PM
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 10:04:11 PM
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 26, 2007, 10:02:26 PM
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:58:24 PM
QuoteWhat's so difficult to accept that the Alien didn't use this method of reproduction on Lambert?
Whats so difficult to accept that it maybe did?
Whats your problem.?
Because when they made Alien, the barfing lifecycle didn't exist. How does seeing a tail crawl slowly to the back of Lambert= barfed on?
Maybe it did, the only thing that didnt exist at the time was the queen.
So, did aliens broke continuity just for inventing something new?
I knew it was only a matter of time before someone mentioned the queen and how that it was something new and never intended before "Aliens". But there is a clear difference, it makes sense. If you've got eggs, it is logical that an alien species which has some behavioral traits similar to insects, would have one that lays the eggs.
So its not just a matter of not seeing something before. If it makes sense in the lifecycle and doesn't overcomplicate things. But the "vomiting embyros" is just f**ked up and not necessary. How exactly does this work anyway, are we supposed to believe that the queen has chestburster embryos in its body that it can just spit up?
Thanks for elaborating. Cuz i grow weary. Same old stuff... i probably, with an essay, refuted something 99% similar to this for another franchise on some other board ::)
Are you seriously going to equate the two as being equivalently absurd? You see no degrees of seperation between the idea of an alien queen and an alien puking down someone's throat, which by the way is far more unnecessary. The queen served a purpose of something that HAD to be explained. Where the eggs came from. The puking is just superflous.
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 26, 2007, 10:14:40 PM
Okay, I just listened to the 20th Anniversary Edition commentary on the very scene, and he says nothing about Alien semen. All he says is that hearing it makes it much more horrifying than seeing it. That's it. Than he immediately changes subjects to about the audience being in the characters' position.
I'm just listening to the bonus material on the 2nd DVD.
Give me some minutes.
I'm going to have to wait and see the movie on this one.
Even speculating about it makes my head hurt. ???
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 26, 2007, 10:15:02 PM
Are you seriously going to equate the two on being equivalently absurd? You see no degrees of seperation between the idea of an alien queen and an alien puking down someone's throat, which by the way is far more unnecessary. The queen served a purpose of something that HAD to be explained. Where the eggs came from. The puking is just superflous.
Woah woah.. friendly fire there. Check my posts. Im on your side. Im just too weary to explain like you right now. maybe tomorrow. The efforts not worth it right now.
At 1:26:41 Ridley says people were suspecting the cat, so he wanted to keep that paranoia going.
1:28:42 "I wanted the Alien to have a certain fascination and delicacy, uh, like this massive toy coming towards her... um, which was mesmerizing.
He then talks about playing Tomita's The Planets for Sigourny Weaver to act to while Parker dies on screen.
1:29:57 "...and of course making Sigourny a very lonely figure. She can hear the death rather than see the death of the other two. (Lambert screams) Her death is heard ... and it's, uh, probably more frightening by hearing it rather than seeing it. (Lambert's screams end). That was a tough session in the looping stage, trying to get that kind of ... scream. (Ripley finds their bodies). I think what we managed to do with the film was always place the audience in the place of the individual about to die. So I think we somehow touched on something which makes them always very vulnerable to what's occurring which is why I think it's particularly frightening."
No more on Lambert after that.
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 26, 2007, 10:14:40 PM
Okay, I just listened to the 20th Anniversary Edition commentary on the very scene, and he says nothing about Alien semen. All he says is that hearing it makes it much more horrifying than seeing it. That's it. Than he immediately changes subjects to about the audience being in the characters' position.
Check the other dvd´s then.
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 26, 2007, 10:17:41 PM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 26, 2007, 10:15:02 PM
Are you seriously going to equate the two on being equivalently absurd? You see no degrees of seperation between the idea of an alien queen and an alien puking down someone's throat, which by the way is far more unnecessary. The queen served a purpose of something that HAD to be explained. Where the eggs came from. The puking is just superflous.
Woah woah.. friendly fire there. Check my posts. Im on your side.
sorry i thought i detected sarcasm in the "thanks for elaborating". and the eye roll icon. I didn't know you were referring to refuting the thing i refuted. lol
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 10:20:26 PM
At 1:26:41 Ridley says people were suspecting the cat, so he wanted to keep that paranoia going.
1:28:42 "I wanted the Alien to have a certain fascination and delicacy, uh, like this massive toy coming towards her... um, which was mesmerizing.
He then talks about playing Tomita's The Planets for Sigourny Weaver to act to while Parker dies on screen.
1:29:57 "...and of course making Sigourny a very lonely figure. She can hear the death rather than see the death of the other two. (Lambert screams) Her death is heard ... and it's, uh, probably more frightening by hearing it rather than seeing it. (Lambert's screams end). That was a tough session in the looping stage, trying to get that kind of ... scream. (Ripley finds their bodies). I think what we managed to do with the film was always place the audience in the place of the individual about to die. So I think we somehow touched on something which makes them always very vulnerable to what's occurring which is why I think it's particularly frightening."
No more on Lambert after that.
Then it was on another dvd.
It wasn't. The Quad commentary says almost the same thing - Scarier that it's heard and not seen.
Face it, there's no mention of Alien impregnation re Lambert, only that Ridley wanted people to be suspicious of the cat, and even then he never implied how it would be infected.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 10:23:18 PM
It wasn't. The Quad commentary says almost the same thing - Scarier that it's heard and not seen.
Face it, there's no mention of Alien impregnation re Lambert, only that Ridley wanted people to be suspicious of the cat, and even then he never implied how it would be infected.
Did you even check the bonus DVD ?
I'm checking it right now, but theres a lot of material to search through...
I still think this new stage of the life cycle could work if done right. Im more worried about why she doesnt show more Queen-like features like the other sets of arms. I guess they changed it a little, being that its safe to assume those grow later when the queen matures. Its a lot of guess work, I just hope its all cleared up at one point or another.
Dude, I've listened to the commentaries. Watched all the bonus material. Hunted down books and articles from 1979 and got other people to scan them in where I couldn't get my hands on it.
The official reproductive method circa 1976-1985 was of egg morphing, not a Queen, and certainly not barfing.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 10:23:18 PM
It wasn't. The Quad commentary says almost the same thing - Scarier that it's heard and not seen.
Face it, there's no mention of Alien impregnation re Lambert, only that Ridley wanted people to be suspicious of the cat, and even then he never implied how it would be infected.
Ok, then it was in the bonus material.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 10:28:31 PM
Dude, I've listened to the commentaries. Watched all the bonus material. Hunted down books and articles from 1979 and got other people to scan them in where I couldn't get my hands on it.
The official reproductive method circa 1976-1985 was of egg morphing, not a Queen, and certainly not barfing.
I never said that the method of reproduction was mentioned in the commentary or the bonus material. I only said that someone said about that scene that you just knew that there wasn't one Alien anymore after what the Alien had done to Lambert.
There was no such mention.
People thought it might be in the cat; that was it.
The bonus material lasts about a some hours. You couldn't have checked all the parts of it in that short period of time. I know it is there.
I've never heard anyone say that, and I've watched the Quadrilogy extras multiple times, as has Sil. I would remember someone saying that.
Quote from: Dragonblaster on Oct 26, 2007, 10:39:51 PM
The bonus material lasts about a some hours. You couldn't have checked all the parts of it in that short period of time. I know it is there.
I know. I've watched it all prior, usually twice, except for some things like casting and the model work.
Okay, I'll admit that I didn't really read all 27 pages of this topic, but I did read the topic on Alien Experience, so here's my 2 cents.
It's true that we've never really seen a Queen in the phase of establishing a hive. However, there is the one scene in A:R where it is mentioned that the Queen will start laying eggs within a few days. That means she's reproducing asexually, which is totally different from puking embryos into mouths. Of course, there's the Predator DNA to factor in- we've never seen an Alien that came from a non-terrestrial creature before. A Predator's DNA could be entirely different from that of a terrestrial creature, i.e. leading to very different results when an Alien coming from a Predator host has assimilated the Predator's DNA. Hence why it takes on a lot more host characteristics than, say, the dog-Alien (mandibles, dreads, color). A Predalien Queen utilizing a different reproduction method initially before switching to the Aliens type egg-facehugger-chestburster cycle also fits into that. Hell, maybe this is similar to how Predator's reproduce!
Just my take on it, I don't think there's too much need to get your panties in a bunch. Still, I would have preferred the egg transmutation method from the Alien DC.
Quote from: Dutch90 on Oct 26, 2007, 10:50:54 PM
Okay, I'll admit that I didn't really read all 27 pages of this topic, but I did read the topic on Alien Experience, so here's my 2 cents.
It's true that we've never really seen a Queen in the phase of establishing a hive. However, there is the one scene in A:R where it is mentioned that the Queen will start laying eggs within a few days. That means she's reproducing asexually, which is totally different from puking embryos into mouths. Of course, there's the Predator DNA to factor in- we've never seen an Alien that came from a non-terrestrial creature before. A Predator's DNA could be entirely different from that of a terrestrial creature, i.e. leading to very different results when an Alien coming from a Predator host has assimilated the Predator's DNA. Hence why it takes on a lot more host characteristics than, say, the dog-Alien (mandibles, dreads, color). A Predalien Queen utilizing a different reproduction method initially before switching to the Aliens type egg-facehugger-chestburster cycle also fits into that. Hell, maybe this is similar to how Predator's reproduce!
Just my take on it, I don't think there's too much need to get your panties in a bunch. Still, I would have preferred the egg transmutation method from the Alien DC.
well it seems the events of this film must indeed take place in 24 hours or continuity will be broken. Because the predalien would be a full grown queen by then capable of laying eggs.
I don't see egg-laying happening at any point. Fans never get sudden appeasement in films. AVPR doesn't seem to be starting a new twist in cinema with a last-minute save.
It doesn't sound right, but perhaps the directors don't give a s*** what was in A:R? However awful that piece of crap is, they have to deal with it being canon. The predator DNA part brought up by Dutch90 is something to think about. Good thinking
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:36:26 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:32:46 PM
Quote from: Dragonblaster on Oct 26, 2007, 08:29:24 PM
Did you even read what I wrote ? ???
Yees, and if it doesn't lead to egg morphing it's a continuity error. We don't know what happened to Lambert, but we have absolutely no reason to assume it was this.
We've never seen what the phase of reproduction was between a young queen and a fully aged egg laying queen. Continuity has not only been maintained, but expanded upon.
As others have pointed out, we very much have seen precisely that. '
Alien 3' makes it clear that Queens are born with the multiple limbs and crest (plus legs, if we go by the model), while '
Alien Resurrection' has an unambiguous scientific statement of the process the Queen goes through.
Are we seriously going to believe those Auriga scientists never put a live animal in with the young Queen, to see what would happen? :)
Heck, they had Ripley 7 going free for spare parts, if nothing else.
I don't have problems with adding to the Alien, but claims of things never being seen, when they have been, do not reflect well.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:50:06 PM
Quote from: Dragonblaster on Oct 26, 2007, 08:48:54 PM
I like how this might show what actually happened to Lambert.
And this is some kind of rape, too.
Oh, it is.
For the record, I think this new method fits perfectly well with the concept of what the Alien is. I think it could be creepy and horrific, if done right.
Unfortunately, I don't think it fits well with canon, because it's contradicting either how Queens are created or the purpose of egg transformation.
Previously, I was hoping we could say both methods could co-exist. Now that you've made it clear this is meant to be a creature maturing into a Queen, that seems to go out of the window.
It's a shame, because I'm one of the fans who's
trying to find a way to have this all fit together. I'm prepared to overlook certain things (people complaining about the number of teeth all Predators must somehow be dictated as being born with, for instance), but this isn't affording me much ambiguity.
Also, it's dangerously close to being derivative of many eighties B-movies, where we saw lots of '
Alien' clones showing creatures trying to reproduce by forcing something down a human being's mouth. It could look much better here, of course, but it's a fine line, in terms of presentation.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:51:52 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:49:41 PM
How does it show what happened to Lambert?
The Alien in that movie wasn't a young Queen.
Where do you think the queen came from in Aliens? Perhaps one of the domiant warriors became a young and queen and started the process. The simple fact is that it has never been shown before, so what are you arguing about?
I can say what James Cameron thought happened, if you want, because there was a very public letter. :)
The Jordans are seen calling for help. According to that story, help came and a search party was sent in. They arrived in time, because there was obviously some sort of vehcile powered by flight; hence "the landing grid" quote. By the time the colonial Marines arrived, this was probably placed back into the garage or whatever.
It's likely that a search party would have been sent, in order to get some clues about what was being dealt with. They have a strange organism they need to get off a guy's face. They don't know what it's doing. This extraterrestrial derelict craft/facility might have some information.
They then get hugged. One is a Queen.
The
alternative, which those such as myself and SM have favoured, is that the Jordan's creature got loose, did what happened in '
Alien', transformed someone into an egg, which then hatched into a Queen-laying facehugger.
Ordinary adults being able to transform into Queens is not necessary for either theory. It also
contradicts the purpose of having a natural Queen. What's the point of them, if any adult can simply split away from the nest and be one?
Quote from: SMJ on Oct 26, 2007, 08:53:13 PM
Well, if the queen didnt make some aliens to protect her first, something like, i dont know, a PREDATOR could just walk right in and blow her the f**k away. This makes sense to me. And I love it. I shall be scorned along with you then Colin lol. :D
That's why
the Queen lays a minefield of eggs. They
are her protection.
Remember how Ripley almost set one off? Instant death
and new young. That was what the scene in '
Aliens' was all about.
As shown with Kane, any freshly-impregnated host is going to be in no shape to fight in the immediate aftermath. If they show any signs of it, they'll be so groggy that the Queen would have more than enough time to commence battle.
Heck, she might even be able to order facehuggers to stay clamped until birth, if it seems necessary. Who's really to say?
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:54:39 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:53:25 PM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:51:52 PM
Where do you think the queen came from in Aliens? Perhaps one of the domiant warriors became a young and queen and started the process. The simple fact is that it has never been shown before, so what are you arguing about?
...Honestly, did you ever watch any movie made after Aliens? Queens are born Queens.
All I've seen is that these very complex creatures find a way to reproduce in strange and unique ways... hence them being Aliens and not simple bugs.
Which is precisely what egg transformation supplied us with. I'm seriously curious as to why you felt the need to do away with it. What was wrong with it? Time considerations? It only took a few hours. A simple cut away, complete with legend to indicate a brief passing of time, could have sufficed for that.
Especially if multiple hosts are taken for the very first abduction sequences.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 09:04:50 PM
I guess Sil just wants simple Bugs.... how sad.
Colin, I know you probably feel a bit trod upon, today (and I don't mean that in a sarcastic way). You've just seen a massive negative public reaction to two of what should have been your flagship marks placed upon this franchise. Nevertheless, please try to understand that SiL is trying to articulate frustration at why you felt the need to do away with egg transformation. Can you please give us an answer, even if it was just down to personal preference?
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 09:09:37 PM
I love how something is "lame-ass" when you haven't seen it at all.
To clarify things, I'm willing to see it. I think it could be very atmospheric and I think that we can all agree that the Aliens
need a way to multiply in the absence of a Queen.
The problem is that it renders either natural Queens or egg transformation as obselete, when both those concepts came before this.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 09:11:10 PM
The Queen's messed-up nature only came into play the end, after she'd gone through her natural reproductive process.
Correct. Human genetic contamination would not have accelerated the Queen's cycle. If anything, it would have delayed it. Her brief period of preparation for laying eggs might even have been slower than an ordinary Queen's would be.
Remember, she has to spend time hooking herself up and growing the beginnings of that sack,
then maturing eggs. Eggs aren't just created in a minute. We saw how many there were in the original Queen's body and she was laying them fairly slowly. Even if she was putting them out at a rate of two every minute, it would still take a long while for those undeveloped ones to fully mature and get shunted to the rear.
All of that time is what accounts for what the creature is supposedly doing.
Plus, any Queen candidate should realise how valuable it is and seal itself away, not go looking for threats to face it.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 09:13:44 PM
But it still doesn't change the fact egg morphing would be infinitely better. It's slower and meaner and ickier. How does that make them like a bug? It doesn't. But it introduces a level of body-horror that you don't get these days.
That's why '
The Fly' works so well. Cronenberg understood that turning someone into what was basically a walking, evolving cancer, touches upon primal fears in the human mind, like nothing else can do.
Egg transformation is a disease, a cancer, yet, to quote '
Blade 2, a "cancer with a purpose".
That makes it scary. The unknowing of whether you'll be sentient for as long as the creature within needs the egg to protect it. Could you be in agony for months, years, decades, centuries? Perhaps more?
If nothing else, you know you'll slowly become a mental vegetable, aware only to the sensation of tormenting pain, as you're gradually turned into embryonic yolk. Knowing that the thing growing inside you has only one purpose. To hatch out from you and infect someone else. Your suffering can only be brought to an end by the sacrifice of another.
That doesn't make them insects. In fact, it totally divorces them from that analogy.
It was also why '
The Thing' is still able to impress.
By comparison, although obviously unpleasant, the Predalien's method won't be able to touch upon the same psychosexual territory, although it'll come close to the facehugger's, obviously.
QuoteWhy wasn't egg morphing good enough for you?
This is precisely what I want to know. Time constraints can be worked around and easily so. I even gave an example of how to do that. The directors already confirmed they were able to get alterations to the story done.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 09:18:06 PM
Oh well, this has been fun but it's time to get back to work.
Peace
Thanks for coming here to interact and defend your own vision, regardless of how many of us feel about it. As you can see, I'm interested to see this on the screen. I just lament that it won't be the egg transformation so many of us had wanted to be there.
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:40:24 PM
Quote from: Scree on Oct 26, 2007, 09:37:18 PM
Quote from: Master on Oct 26, 2007, 09:30:40 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 26, 2007, 09:29:03 PM
Who said the Predalien wasen't a Queen from the beganing?
Chestburster who had no arms nor crest.
Like the Queen they removed from Ripley at the beginning of Alien Resurrection?
Very good point there, so the predalien could be a queen from the start.
The rez queen looked like a normal chestburster too.
Because it was massively under-developed. Human babies don't look much like humans, either, if they're early enough. It did, however, have the beginnings of a crest and the mouth had a protective sheath, which this does not.
The one it should be compared with is what we saw in '
Alien 3', which had a specific aesthetic.
Quote from: dDave on Oct 26, 2007, 09:46:32 PM
we know that the pred-women were stronger then males
We don't even know if female Predators exist or what the gender was of the ones we saw in the various films. :)
Back to the theory again, this is contradicting stuff.
Theory 1:Aliens transform victims into eggs. One or all have embryonic Queen facehuggers within them. Regular adults can be created through the, uh, 'oral' concept.
Conclusion:Wrong. We now know this is a moulting Queen (which contradicts another interview, but there we are).
Theory 2:Aliens moult into Queens. They can breed orally.
Conclusion:This contradicts natural Queens. If any adult can transform, what's the point of birthing natural Queens? Any adult could simply move away from the nest and be one.
Theory 3:Aiens moult into Queens. They can breed orally. They can transform victims into eggs. Both will create regular adults.
Conclusion:What's the points of egg transformation? Oral would be the quickest method. It means the creature in '
Alien' was being completely illogical.
See where we are? If the Predalien can moult, then it renders natural Queens obselete. If they can breed orally or through egg alteration, then why bother with egging?
I just don't see a way to make this fit with what we've seen in the other films. That doesn't mean this one won't be
entertaining, but this is leaving me with little alternative but to conclude this series as not being canon.
Which annoys me, because I've been trying damn hard to want this to all somehow fit together.
The bitch of it is, this could have actually fitted together, were it not for the Predalien having to grow and be a Queen. The only hope seems to be that we might not actually see that and it's just the directors' personal theory for what's 'really' going on.
We could say that maybe they egg people early on, only able to do the oral thing after a certain time, but I don't know why that would be.
Bravo!
Pardon my ignorance but what actually happened to Lambert? other than being killed by the alien
No-one knows.
im not sure if this has already been mention but whatever...
when chet plants the embryo (sp?) ina person's mouth could that be the way for egg-morphing to occur???
Quote from: pred_alien on Oct 26, 2007, 11:42:00 PM
im not sure if this has already been mention but whatever...
when chet plants the embryo (sp?) ina person's mouth could that be the way for egg-morphing to occur???
Most of us are hoping that is so.
Because we still have yet to get a confirmation or denial of it, I fear not.
That or the Predalien is so generally impatient that it can't be bothered to stick around and complete that process. Which is no excuse for one of the others not simply taking the victim to be cocooned and all of that.
I wonder where the eggs come from when she throws up on the victims, her stomach???
If it was egg morphing, he would'a said so to calm people down. But it clearly isn't egg morphing.
Quote from: pred_alien on Oct 26, 2007, 11:42:00 PM
im not sure if this has already been mention but whatever...
when chet plants the embryo (sp?) ina person's mouth could that be the way for egg-morphing to occur???
well in the DC of Alien, brett was cocooned to the wall first and before that he recieved a headbite and was taken, as opposed to cornered and implanted with whatever starts the egg morphing process. So i fail to see how it could still be related to egg morphing and yet still make sense.
If the predalien is molting into a queen ( ???) and needs to settle down and finish the process and then lay eggs, why would it be out hunting hosts and making itself vulnerable. So I'm not buying the whole "it needs to create an army to protect it" since it could be killed in the process of doing that, which is counterproductive to the perpetuation of the species.
Holy crap. Wow!
Brand new member here (hello everyone!).
I just made my account today to see what the general reaction was with these new ideas pertaining to reproduction. I have to say that I am pleasantly surprised to see that most of you here are intelligent enough to have respect for the canon established in the series. I expected to come here and see the same people from the IMDB boards; misguided fanboys who don't know anything about the series and don't care as long as they can see their way cool monsters duke it out in campy, modern caricatures of past amazing films.
Personally, I agree with just about everything SiL has said pertaining to this idea. It's very cool of Colin to come here and actually interact a little with the fans, but he doesn't seem to care that the people here have paid more attention to the series the he has in spite of the fact that he is the one getting paid millions of dollars to make an addition to it. It's shameful really, and there is a difference between taking the series in a ballsy new direction and just taking a dump on the facts already established in the Aliens universe.
Personally, I had high hopes for this film. To be completely honest, I never saw AVP because I was sure that if I did I would cry. As soon as the director was announced my boycott began (and still stands to this day). However, AVPR seemed to be giving me all I wanted which was mostly a nice, big line of seperation between this film and Anderson's. It also came with the reassurance from the directors that canon would be respected.
"If this movie is a real knockout then I can easily just pretend that Anderson's AVP never happened!" I told myself... until today when I read the news pertaining to the predalien/queen's reproductive method. Shame on the directors for this misstep. However, even more shameful is the fact that SiL mentioned various facts in opposition to this new idea and Colin ignored those and instead focused his short responses in another direction. While personally I have always hated the idea of egg morphing (and I am surprised that anyone even considers it a viable reproductive option since it was retroactively re-cut into the extended version of Alien in direct conflict with what Cameron showed us in Aliens), I still think SiL pretty much took Colin to school here. Mad props and much respect to, so far, the only alien fanatic I have seen online who cares as much as I do.
Things were going so well too. Looks like I might not see AVPR after all.
Oh my...I can't believe the level of childish whining I just witnessed...
I'm sorry guys,
this is just plain ridiculous...Oh boy... ::)
Why can't people just wait to see the fricking movie?? ???
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Oct 26, 2007, 11:59:27 PM
Holy crap. Wow!
Brand new member here (hello everyone!).
I just made my account today to see what the general reaction was with these new ideas pertaining to reproduction. I have to say that I am pleasantly surprised to see that most of you here are intelligent enough to have respect for the canon established in the series. I expected to come here and see the same people from the IMDB boards; misguided fanboys who don't know anything about the series and don't care as long as they can see their way cool monsters duke it out in campy, modern caricatures of past amazing films.
Personally, I agree with just about everything SiL has said pertaining to this idea. It's very cool of Colin to come here and actually interact a little with the fans, but he doesn't seem to care that the people here have paid more attention to the series the he has in spite of the fact that he is the one getting paid millions of dollars to make an addition to it. It's shameful really, and there is a difference between taking the series in a ballsy new direction and just taking a dump on the facts already established in the Aliens universe.
Personally, I had high hopes for this film. To be completely honest, I never saw AVP because I was sure that if I did I would cry. As soon as the director was announced my boycott began (and still stands to this day). However, AVPR seemed to be giving me all I wanted which was mostly a nice, big line of seperation between this film and Anderson's. It also came with the reassurance from the directors that canon would be respected.
"If this movie is a real knockout then I can easily just pretend that Anderson's AVP never happened!" I told myself... until today when I read the news pertaining to the predalien/queen's reproductive method. Shame on the directors for this misstep. However, even more shameful is the fact that SiL mentioned various facts in opposition to this new idea and Colin ignored those and instead focused his short responses in another direction. While personally I have always hated the idea of egg morphing (and I am surprised that anyone even considers it a viable reproductive option since it was retroactively re-cut into the extended version of Alien in direct conflict with what Cameron showed us in Aliens), I still think SiL pretty much took Colin to school here. Mad props and much respect to, so far, the only alien fanatic I have seen online who cares as much as I do.
Things were going so well too. Looks like I might not see AVPR after all.
yeah, what makes this worse is that the directors have mentioned several times that "continuity would remain intact".
Well, TheAncientEnemy, while I understand your views on egg morphing, you're wrong about the contradiction comment. It's a companion piece to the Queen cycle, not a replacement. No Queen? Aliens make eggs out of people. Eggs birth huggers with Queens. Process goes as 'normal'.
The egg transmutation has been established since 1979 and I find it ridiculous that the Bros, 28 years after the fact, decide that one of the most creative and horrifying additions to an already grotesque and, as far as cinematic monsters are concerned, largely unique life cycle isn't good enough for them and opt to go for something like an Alien vomiting into other people's mouths.
Quote from: Demonio Cazador on Oct 27, 2007, 12:01:20 AM
Oh my...I can't believe the level of childish whining I just witnessed...
I'm sorry guys,
this is just plain ridiculous...Oh boy... ::)
Why can't people just wait to see the fricking movie?? ???
because details pertaining to it that break established canon/continuity have been revealed and not denied, but defended.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 12:05:47 AM
Well, TheAncientEnemy, while I understand your views on egg morphing, you're wrong about the contradiction comment. It's a companion piece to the Queen cycle, not a replacement. No Queen? Aliens make eggs out of people. Eggs birth huggers with Queens. Process goes as 'normal'.
The egg transmutation has been established since 1979 and I find it ridiculous that the Bros, 28 years after the fact, decide that one of the most creative and horrifying additions to an already grotesque and, as far as cinematic monsters are concerned, largely unique life cycle and opt to go for something like an Alien vomiting into other people's mouths.
seriously. egg morphing>vomiting in a person's mouth. Its not even close.
I'm starting to get a new appreciation for Paul Anderson. At least he didn't f**k with the alien's lifecycle as much as this. The speed on which the aliens gestated was problematic, but at least he had a queen and did everything else related to how they reproduce correctly.
And you were once violently opposed to the idea!
Quote from: Demonio Cazador on Oct 27, 2007, 12:01:20 AM
Oh my...I can't believe the level of childish whining I just witnessed...
I'm sorry guys,
this is just plain ridiculous...Oh boy... ::)
Why can't people just wait to see the fricking movie?? ???
I don't know about you, but I want to know that I will like what they do with the characters before I pat Fox on the back and encourage them with my ten dollar admission. No one likes to pay cash to see a big studio rape their favorite franchise.
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Oct 27, 2007, 12:08:25 AM
No one likes to pay cash to see a big studio rape their favorite franchise.
;D ;D ;D See, that's exactly what I'm talking about...this is priceless!!
Ok, I'm going to take the back seat on this one... ;)
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 12:08:02 AM
And you were once violently opposed to the idea!
Its the contrast between egg morphing and this god-awful new vomiting bullshit. When compared to that, egg morphing sounds a lot more reasonable. If faced with the decision to use either, egg morphing is a no brainer.
Now that doesn't mean it doesn't have its problems, but it would not break continuity as much as this new reproductive mindf**kery. I could live with egg morping at this point and the film would not feel ruined. I can't say that for the regurgitation. >:(
I don't think Colin is the enemy here. I don't know the guy and really can't come to his defense just as "some dude", especially when I have my issues with the PredAlien as it is, but he obviously has his views. He likes Aliens, which leaves aspects of the other films a bit out in the cold. While some could say that such life cycle favoritism has brought us here, I just don't think any of us would have been satisfied with changes. I sure as hell am not...I feel that egg morphing could have worked. But with that said, there's also a Predator and semi-traditional Aliens and other things to look forward to. The PredAlien may be a disappointment for hardcore Alien fans, but let's not put the Strause's on the spot for this too much.
It's all pretty futile...it's the fans in opposition with the people in power whose opinion at this point will not be changed.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 12:05:47 AM
Well, TheAncientEnemy, while I understand your views on egg morphing, you're wrong about the contradiction comment. It's a companion piece to the Queen cycle, not a replacement. No Queen? Aliens make eggs out of people. Eggs birth huggers with Queens. Process goes as 'normal'.
The egg transmutation has been established since 1979 and I find it ridiculous that the Bros, 28 years after the fact, decide that one of the most creative and horrifying additions to an already grotesque and, as far as cinematic monsters are concerned, largely unique life cycle isn't good enough for them and opt to go for something like an Alien vomiting into other people's mouths.
Hmmm... I dunno SiL. I have just never been a fan of the egg morphing thing. However, I can tell by your posts that you really love that aspect of the life cycle. To be honest, I have never really considered it that carefully since it was cut out of Alien. I have a question though... if any alien can create an egg from a host victim, why have a queen at all? Sorry if this is becoming redundant.
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 27, 2007, 12:12:09 AM
I don't think Colin is the enemy here. I don't know the guy and really can't come to his defense just as "some dude", especially when I have my issues with the PredAlien as it is, but he obviously has his views. He likes Aliens, which leaves aspects of the other films a bit out in the cold. While some could say that such life cycle favoritism has brought us here, I just don't think any of us would have been satisfied with changes. I sure as hell am not...I feel that egg morphing could have worked. But with that said, there's also a Predator and semi-traditional Aliens and other things to look forward to. The PredAlien may be a disappointment for hardcore Alien fans, but let's not put the Strause's on the spot for this too much.
It's all pretty futile...it's the fans in opposition with the people in power whose opinion at this point will not be changed.
I'm certainly not biased against the directors, but whether its their fault or the studio's fault, someone has to shoulder the blame for this f**kup. It can't just be ignored as if everything is fine and we just have to wait and see the film, as if no judgement of any kind on any level can be passed before that.(Despite the fact that we've seen three trailers, 4 if you count the international one, and a bunch of pics and interviews)
i didnt lik the idea at first but the new reproduction method has grown on me and kinda maks sense now: a drone can use the egg-morph method in the absince of a queen 2 create 1, a young queen will use the oral-implantation method 2 create drones 2 protect her has she gets settled, and a full grown queen produces eggs. so y doesnt a queen just continue the oral-implantation method? cuz that would but the queen in a dangerous position, having 2 be right by a host(a host lik a pred could be potentaly leathal to a queen, so it maks sence that she would try 2 avoid them). my only question is how the ovipositor forms on a devoloping queen...or a queen that had detached for the ovipositer for that reason. and by the looks of it so far, continuacy hasnt been lost since i dont recall any of the movies following a young queen, therefore we hav no previous knowledge to be contridicted...1 mor question i hav, what causes the predalien to begin developing in2 a queen?...or was it a queen to start with?, but that really wouldnt mak sence since it would be by a super-facehugger which would hav resulted in a queen and a "bodyguard" drone...and what r the odds that the ONE facehugger that succeded in facehugging a pred would be a super-facehugger...?
Well to be honest, the "embryo-vomiting" angle seems plausible, although it would need to serve some sort of significant purpose, otherwise there would be absolutely no use for facehuggers, & therefore a continuity error.
We never actually saw how Brett & Dallas were infected in the original film, so that's one angle, but it seems to have already been well established that this has nothing to do with egg morphing.
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Oct 27, 2007, 12:13:27 AM
why have a queen at all? Sorry if this is becoming redundant.
Speed and mass production. Takes hours to turn a host, minutes to crap out a dozen eggs.
Why have facehuggers in this film if the Predalien are going to produce aliens by vomit? :-\
the facehuggers r already there, they create some of the first drones.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 12:20:24 AM
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Oct 27, 2007, 12:13:27 AM
why have a queen at all? Sorry if this is becoming redundant.
Speed and mass production. Takes hours to turn a host, minutes to crap out a dozen eggs.
Hmmm... I'll give the idea more thought. A part of me says that maybe I didn't give it any credit before because I just plain don't like it... but then that would make me just as bad as a director who chooses to ignore certain aspects, wouldn't it? I suppose I consider "canon" to be the films in their theatrical cuts. For example, I prefer the alien in Alien 3 coming from a dog as opposed to an ox. I also don't care that we totally lose track of Golic, nor do I like that Weyland-Yutani was bought by Wal-Mart, as stated in the extended cut of AR.
Which brings me to another question: If you consider the egg morphing to be canon in spite of the fact that it is only in the director's cut, which version of Alien 3 do you consider to be correct? The way I have always seen it, Ridley Scott just had a very different vision when it comes to how the alien lived and Cameron based his elaboration on the theatrical presentation of Alien. I always felt that the director's cut of Alien was more of a "wonder what it would have been like if it was released this way" type of thing.
Is everyone mad because they think that continuity has been broken by the mouth banging idea, Colin has stated that continuity has been mantained so there's no need to get our panties in a bunch here.
Alien³ works best with the queen facehugger, thus the Assembly Cut just makes the storyline work better. Otherwise, there are questions that arise and are left unanswered.
QuoteIs everyone mad because they think that continuity has been broken by the mouth banging idea, Colin has stated that continuity has been mantained so there's no need to get our panties in a bunch here.
He's making an addition to the continuity that has a flaw a few have already brought up. That's why we're frustrated...it is an addition that conflicts with said promise.
The bottom line is, the embryo regurgitation needs to serve its own specific purpose, otherwise it would throw off the entire continuity of the series. Since the predalien is apparently a developing Queen (gathering from what was said earlier by Colin) I'm assuming that its purpose isn't to create a new hive matriach.
Since egg-morphing seems to have been ruled out of the film, I'm left wondering what purpose this could possibly serve, as if aliens were able to normally reproduce simply by vomiting into their victims' mouths, there would be no need for Queens or facehuggers at all.
Quote from: Stalker on Oct 27, 2007, 12:31:24 AM
The bottom line is, the embryo regurgitation needs to serve its own specific purpose, otherwise it would throw off the entire continuity of the series. Since the predalien is apparently a developing Queen (gathering from what was said earlier by Colin) I'm assuming that its purpose isn't to create a new hive matriach.
Since egg-morphing seems to have been ruled out of the film, I'm left wondering what purpose this could possibly serve, as if aliens were able to normally reproduce simply by vomiting into their victims' mouths, there would be no need for Queens or facehuggers at all.
Precisely...that is the reason some of us have a problem with it...
Quote from: Hybrid PM on Oct 27, 2007, 12:28:42 AM
Is everyone mad because they think that continuity has been broken by the mouth banging idea, Colin has stated that continuity has been mantained so there's no need to get our panties in a bunch here.
uh..you can't do something that is clearly non-canon and then just ward away criticism by saying "don't worry, it doesn't break continuity."
stupied ppl, read my post at the top of this page! (pg 29) iv already given a decent reason y queens produse eggs and y the oral-impregnation would be a good thing 2 hav...jeez
Quote from: Gates on Oct 27, 2007, 12:33:15 AM
Quote from: Stalker on Oct 27, 2007, 12:31:24 AM
The bottom line is, the embryo regurgitation needs to serve its own specific purpose, otherwise it would throw off the entire continuity of the series. Since the predalien is apparently a developing Queen (gathering from what was said earlier by Colin) I'm assuming that its purpose isn't to create a new hive matriach.
Since egg-morphing seems to have been ruled out of the film, I'm left wondering what purpose this could possibly serve, as if aliens were able to normally reproduce simply by vomiting into their victims' mouths, there would be no need for Queens or facehuggers at all.
Precisely...that is the reason some of us have a problem with it...
Its a little hard to believe that the developing predalien queen is going to conveniently lose the ability to implant embryos in people orally once it reaches fullgrown status. Its too convenient of a plot device and too awkward, not exactly maintaining continuity.
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Oct 27, 2007, 12:26:25 AM
Which brings me to another question: If you consider the egg morphing to be canon in spite of the fact that it is only in the director's cut, which version of Alien 3 do you consider to be correct? The way I have always seen it, Ridley Scott just had a very different vision when it comes to how the alien lived and Cameron based his elaboration on the theatrical presentation of Alien. I always felt that the director's cut of Alien was more of a "wonder what it would have been like if it was released this way" type of thing.
As far as I see it, everyone thinks the Aliens DC is canon, so why not the others?
The Alien DC at least got a theatrical release, the information it provided was established since 1979 (people were confused by the introduction of the Queen in '86), and it was only ever removed for time purposes, not because anyone didn't like the idea.
As for
Alien 3, I say the Assembly Cut is fair game in that the only thing that's truly ever contradicted is the host and whether or not the Queen pops out at the end, and both of those are pretty inconsequential anyway.
So once the person is impragnated by the predalien a PREDALIEN chestburster will come out of them, right?
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:51:52 PM
All I've seen is that these very complex creatures find a way to reproduce in strange and unique ways... hence them being Aliens and not simple bugs.
Finally, some one who as the same opinion as me, the aliens should still have new and weird ways or doing things instead of having a set pattern i.e. only facehuggers make chestbursters and only queens can make eggs and so on.
Well, this is a different Alien creation all together and Predaliens weren't in the Alien films so how does this contradict those movies?
This being is totally different from the alien because its a hybrid. I guess it makes sense to have it's own way of producing. I don't know, pretty weird shit.
queens probably keep that ability but they dont need it since producing eggs would mak mor sence.
It does work if you're willing to believe that there's a cycle we never saw in the Queen's development, and if you never noticed that the embryo in Ripley was quoted to be a Queen from conception...
If we can accept that PredQueens aren't born with crests and multiple limbs, then bada-bing bada-boom, all we're left with is why they felt the need to ignore egg morphing.
Quote from: Mr. Weyland on Oct 27, 2007, 12:38:29 AMFinally, some one who as the same opinion as me, the aliens should still have new and weird ways or doing things instead of having a set pattern i.e. only facehuggers make chestbursters and only queens can make eggs and so on.
I like some scientific structure to the chaos, not just random additions made that ignore other installments on the basis that it makes the Alien unpredictable...the creature's intelligence should do just fine on that end.
Quote from: Mr. Weyland on Oct 27, 2007, 12:38:29 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:51:52 PM
All I've seen is that these very complex creatures find a way to reproduce in strange and unique ways... hence them being Aliens and not simple bugs.
Finally, some one who as the same opinion as me, the aliens should still have new and weird ways or doing things instead of having a set pattern i.e. only facehuggers make chestbursters and only queens can make eggs and so on.
however, you can't just add new shit for the sake of having new shit in a film. The alien's lifecycle does not need improvement, it is essentially perfect and terrifying already. Where does it end? Is AVP 3 going to add yet another link in the chain of its already bogged down lifecycle and reproductive methods?
To put it this way. We have the mere inclusion of a predalien, that's already knew, but wait its also a queen, but wait not a full grown queen, its going to vomit embryos in a victim's mouth. Get my point?
besides, using the regurgitation method would be dangerous for a queen, it would mak mor sence to throw countless facehuggers at a pred than risk the queens safty 2 do the vomit method.
Uhh...I wasn't here for the whole fight and agruement but I guess this pretty much creates something new, even if I'm not totally happy about this its okay I just want to see how they work it out. Still I don't completely understand the whole new reproduction method ?
The theory that the regurgitation method spawns the developing Queen's "personal guards" is quite plausible, & I'm actually liking it.
It would also make sense that once the Queen reaches maturity, she would no longer need this ability, as she would be laying eggs, & have her entire hive gathering hosts to spawn new offspring.
Wow... reading the arguments on this part of the forum has really, really, really shown me some things and all I have to say is this:
I'm with Colin on this-- we HAVEN'T seen what a PredAlien can do. And although it is something relatively new and odd, I find it to be fascinating and well thought out. Perhaps this is why Predators relentlessly NEED to kill PredAliens.
And arguing with the Director of what would be considered a Winter Blockbuster... WOW!! Just WOW!! Talk about forcing your vision down on a director who has already completed the filming.
All I can say is, if you're not happy, then find a budget with over 30,000 dollars, get a camera and make your own movie.
Colin, I'm with ya buddy and I LOVE how things are being expanded upon.
-Rakai'Thwei
I'm not sure there's even any point weighing in here, considering it's probably going to get lost in the hysterics, but here goes.
I'm not totally against this new idea, but I do find myself very critical of it. I'm sure no one, even the Strause's, would reproach anyone for that. It is a rather radical inclusion, after all, and who wants a fan-base that dumbly sits there and accepts everything that's thrown at it. A healthy level of criticism helps to keep the franchise to a certain standard, which is exactly what prompted the Strause's to want to do this movie after seeing the last one.
My primary concern is not that this is out of sync with the feel of the alien species, indeed it's very much in the spirit of the first movie. But I am concerned that it makes the life-cycle we've known up until this point rather superfluous. Surely laying eggs which sit around relying on some stupid creature to come and poke them is terribly inefficient if the aliens also have the ability to impregnate people directly. This system has the clear advantages of mobility and selection over the egg-laying system, which is both static and ruled by chance.
The potential problem is thus, if they have this ability earlier, why would they ever abandon it in favour of one which is clearly less efficient?
I'm going to wait and see how this is portrayed and dealt with in the film itself before I start going ballistic. I think a large part of its acceptability will come down to how it translates emotionally. If it's dark, disgusting, and wrong I'll most likely embrace it. If it just falls on its face and looks goofy then obviously I'll have an issue with it.
Considering that it is going to be in the film, whether we like it or not, I do hope that it sheds some light on the hive process as well. Either having the impregnated victim start to grow tumorous hive material out of its body, which both restrains it and creates a suitable environment for the next, or to show the predalien impregnating and then cocooning the victim could potentially be very interesting.
Thus speaks the voice of reason.
Quote from: Stalker on Oct 27, 2007, 12:43:46 AM
The theory that the regurgitation method spawns the developing Queen's "personal guards" is quite plausible, & I'm actually liking it.
It would also make sense that once the Queen reaches maturity, she would no longer need this ability, as she would be laying eggs, & have her entire hive gathering hosts to spawn new offspring.
oh no..i just received a horrible thought. When you said the queen's bodyguards, i thought of "Praetorians" or the queen's "royal guard". Please tell me that different aliens other than warriors will not be produced by this reproductive cycle. That is as non-canon as stuff in some of the comics. That's closer to the avp arcade game than something that should be in a film.
This would be the last straw indeed. Since we know there were no praetorians to guard the queen in aliens, only a couple warrior aliens. (seen in the scene where ripley is about to torch the eggs and the queen orders them to back off)
Even worse would be if the aliens produced were predaliens. So they would be predalien praeotrians. (Didn't someone suspect more than one predalien in the film? :o)
necronoir, u sould read the post i put on page 29, i think it would mak sence that the queen would hav this method early on so she can create som drones 2 protect herself, but 1nce thats done, she sould use a safer method(insted of walking right up 2 a potentaly dangerous host), lik, creating eggs and using the drones 2 collect hosts and/or disperse the eggs.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Oct 27, 2007, 12:44:42 AM
And arguing with the Director of what would be considered a Winter Blockbuster... WOW!! Just WOW!! Talk about forcing your vision down on a director who has already completed the filming.
Or maybe it's just showing how the director's vision sucks ass, goes against what we've seen and makes themselves out to be a bit flimsy on their definition of 'not breaking canon'?
The only difference between Colin and any other moronic fanboy out there is that Colin's ideas become canon.
QuoteI'm with Colin on this-- we HAVEN'T seen what a PredAlien can do. And although it is something relatively new and odd, I find it to be fascinating and well thought out. Perhaps this is why Predators relentlessly NEED to kill PredAliens.
Here's the thing, though...Colin is clearly saying that this is a stage for ALL Queens before they start the egg laying cycle, which really has nothing to do with the PredAlien itself. That's contradictory to the previous films that have shown that they're born that way. It relies a lot on speculation that Aliens just molt into Queens on the occasion, which is a bit of a jump for a professional film.
QuoteAll I can say is, if you're not happy, then find a budget with over 30,000 dollars, get a camera and make your own movie.
I'm not about to join the "this movie sucks" camp, but Dead End was made and got praise from people within the industry.
iv only seen a queen being born in A:R, and u could just as easily say thats not consistent with the spieces since they were a geneticly mutated straind. maybe the A:R aliens lost some of there exoticness in the splicing. and to my knowledge they dont say much about the queens early life in aliens
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 12:52:59 AM
iv only seen a queen being born in A:R, and u could just as easily say thats not consistent with the spieces since they were a geneticly mutated straind. maybe the A:R aliens lost some of there exoticness in the splicing. and to my knowledge they dont say much about the queens early life in aliens
I guess it was an imaginary Queen that bursted from Ripley at the end of
Alien 3...
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 27, 2007, 12:47:07 AM
oh no..i just received a horrible thought. When you said the queen's bodyguards, i thought of "Praetorians" or the queen's "royal guard". Please tell me that different aliens other than warriors will not be produced by this reproductive cycle. That is as non-canon as stuff in some of the comics. That's closer to the avp arcade game than something that should be in a film.
Praetorians are still considered non-canonical, although there was never any solid reason for the guards to be any different than the other aliens, just more protective of their developing Queen.
Another possible explanation is the egg-morphing theory. After all, the original drone in Alien looked as though it was morphing both Dallas & Brett...which seems to contradict the idea that it was creating a new Queen. The predalien was not spawned in such a way, & it is apparently a Queen in development, so it's a high possibility that the original alien was as well, & was preparing to spawn its guards. The regurgitation method of implantation could very well be how the egg-morphing process begins in the first place.
Quote from: echobbase79 on Oct 27, 2007, 12:38:35 AM
Well, this is a different Alien creation all together and Predaliens weren't in the Alien films so how does this contradict those movies?
This being is totally different from the alien because its a hybrid. I guess it makes sense to have it's own way of producing. I don't know, pretty weird shit.
It's a "hybrid" in the same sense that an alien coming out of a human is a "hybrid." Personally I think calling it the "hybrid" is odd because it implies that it was created in a lab or something. Any alien that punches out of any host will be just as much a "hybrid" as the predalien. It's just an alien like any other.
I suppose one could argue that the only aspect of the alien life cycle that is not affected by a host's characteristics is the facehugger which comes directly from the egg.
The question still remains, will we see the predalien molt or start molting into a bigger queen at some point in the movie???
I'm still clinging on to my genetic freak idea.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 12:49:57 AM
Or maybe it's just showing how the director's vision sucks ass, goes against what we've seen and makes themselves out to be a bit flimsy on their definition of 'not breaking canon'?
The only difference between Colin and any other moronic fanboy out there is that Colin's ideas become canon.
Yeah, but you've been showing such an asinine attitude towards Colin! I have never seen such disregaurd and disrespect-- literally by saying that his vision is sucky on a message board where he frequents to have a pleasant interaction with the fans (which I am ashamed of those whom call themselves "fans")? What?! How can you have the gall to even do that?
Breaking canon? I FAIL to see how that breaks canon. Again, I WILL state, we haven't seen what a PredAlien could do! In 1979, was the idea of a PredAlien thought up? No, not even a twinkle in someone's eye!
We haven't seen what PredAliens can do, and what they are capable of. All we have seen what were in comics and games, all based on the imagination of artists and game designers.
Seriously Sil.... judge the movie after you see it.
Sorry to be rude, but I just hate the disrespect towards Colin.. he and his brother worked hard, so.. don't knock it til you see it.
I'm out.
-Rakai'Thwei
Quote from: Hybrid PM on Oct 27, 2007, 12:55:08 AM
The question still remains, will we see the predalien molt or start molting into a bigger queen at some point in the movie???
Considering that we see the predator jam his wristblades through its skull while its in the form we have been shown today... I doubt it.
"Continuity has not only been maintained, but expanded upon. "
Why the need to expand the life cycle..? Isn't it detailed enough already? Scott originally had the Alien recycle its victims. Cameron then added to the life cycle by introducing the Queen. Fincher allows us to speculate that some facehuggers can implant 2 embryos, one of which is a Queen. Jeunet gave the mutant 'Queen' a vagina.
The only person who hasn't felt the need to embellish the life cycle was Anderson. Gotta respect him for that much at least!
Now even more unnecessary details have been added to the life cycle. Just because it doesn't interfere with what has been previously established doesn't make it a worthy addition. I guess the next movie will have a King Alien - with a huge dick. Oh, why not? It doesn't interfere with what has gone before. So it MUST be a good idea! Yeah, let's expand the life cycle with each successive movie. Hey, let me have some say in the next movie and the King Alien will have 2 dicks - one on each side of its head - that unseen until it is aroused. After all, it doesn't interfere with the existing llifecycle.
Doesn't make it a good idea, though.
Directors keep adding to the life cycle feature and it is getting somewhat over-used to exploit it further. What they don't seem to realise, is that adding to such a feature with each iteration can serve as a dilution rather than an embellishment.
I would have been happy to see the Predalien cocoon its victims and morph them into eggs the way that Scott had originally intended. It would have been just as creepy, kept some consistency happening and everyone would be satisfied with it. Well, many Fans would be anyway.
No. Its gotta be overworked over and over again until Aliens can spew offspring into the World.
-Windebieste.
Quote from: Gates on Oct 27, 2007, 12:54:16 AM
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 12:52:59 AM
iv only seen a queen being born in A:R, and u could just as easily say thats not consistent with the spieces since they were a geneticly mutated straind. maybe the A:R aliens lost some of there exoticness in the splicing. and to my knowledge they dont say much about the queens early life in aliens
I guess it was an imaginary Queen that bursted from Ripley at the end of Alien 3...
good point, but for some reason i doubt the predalien is starting as a queen...it just seems unlikly(ha, what im about 2 say next will probably less likly), i think the predalien may hav started out normal and is becoming a queen throughout the film, maybe the queen produces a pheromone the keeps adults from becoming a queen, but without a queen any given alien will become a queen....wait, how long did the alien in
alien liv?
Quote from: Hybrid PM on Oct 27, 2007, 12:55:08 AM
The question still remains, will we see the predalien molt or start molting into a bigger queen at some point in the movie???
The wrist blades the Predator puts into its head go against the chances of actually seeing it molt.
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 12:52:59 AM
iv only seen a queen being born in A:R, and u could just as easily say thats not consistent with the spieces since they were a geneticly mutated straind. maybe the A:R aliens lost some of there exoticness in the splicing. and to my knowledge they dont say much about the queens early life in aliens
sure they don't even touch the idea of a young queen in "Aliens" but that doesn't mean you can retroactively insert any random idea you want to into a film to try and tackle that issue. Im pretty sure the queen planted itself in the sub-basement of the atmosphere processing station and starting growing the egg laying sac, with the other warrior aliens to help cocoon it to the walls and ceiling. It definitely was not running around throughout the colony looking for people to vomit inside of.
And don't think about saying "well there already were more aliens to protect it so it didn't need to". How do we know that the queen was not the second or third one to burst out? It could have been the first. It could have been egg-morphed by the first warrior alien. All of which makes more sense than saying it went after people all the way across the gap between the atsmosphere processing station and the entry to the main complex to hunt people down.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Oct 27, 2007, 12:57:30 AM
Breaking canon? I FAIL to see how that breaks canon. Again, I WILL state, we haven't seen what a PredAlien could do! In 1979, was the idea of a PredAlien thought up? No, not even a twinkle in someone's eye!
We haven't seen what PredAliens can do, and what they are capable of. All we have seen what were in comics and games, all based on the imagination of artists and game designers.
To this I have only one thing to say...
OCCAM'S RAZOR
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Oct 27, 2007, 12:57:30 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 12:49:57 AM
Or maybe it's just showing how the director's vision sucks ass, goes against what we've seen and makes themselves out to be a bit flimsy on their definition of 'not breaking canon'?
The only difference between Colin and any other moronic fanboy out there is that Colin's ideas become canon.
Yeah, but you've been showing such an asinine attitude towards Colin! I have never seen such disregaurd and disrespect-- literally by saying that his vision is sucky on a message board where he frequents to have a pleasant interaction with the fans (which I am ashamed of those whom call themselves "fans")? What?! How can you have the gall to even do that?
Breaking canon? I FAIL to see how that breaks canon. Again, I WILL state, we haven't seen what a PredAlien could do! In 1979, was the idea of a PredAlien thought up? No, not even a twinkle in someone's eye!
We haven't seen what PredAliens can do, and what they are capable of. All we have seen what were in comics and games, all based on the imagination of artists and game designers.
Seriously Sil.... judge the movie after you see it.
Sorry to be rude, but I just hate the disrespect towards Colin.. he and his brother worked hard, so.. don't knock it til you see it.
I'm out.
-Rakai'Thwei
I know I'm about as new as you can get here, but I feel that SiL is not out of line considering that Colin has contradicted himself pertaining to following the lore and canon of the series. He will have plenty of mindless teeny boppers paying to see his movie when it comes out. It would be a disservice to fans if people didn't call him out on things of this nature. You gotta have some pretty tough skin if you want to tinker with sci-fi icons like this.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 12:56:49 AM
I'm still clinging on to my genetic freak idea.
Well, gotta remember that Anderson's Aliens were mutated by the Predators and that messed up their life cycle so...there's that...well...that's just a fandom idea but.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 27, 2007, 01:01:03 AM
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 12:52:59 AM
iv only seen a queen being born in A:R, and u could just as easily say thats not consistent with the spieces since they were a geneticly mutated straind. maybe the A:R aliens lost some of there exoticness in the splicing. and to my knowledge they dont say much about the queens early life in aliens
sure they don't even touch the idea of a young queen in "Aliens" but that doesn't mean you can retroactively insert any random idea you want to into a film to try and tackle that issue. Im pretty sure the queen planted itself in the sub-basement of the atmosphere processing station and starting growing the egg laying sac, with the other warrior aliens to help cocoon it to the walls and ceiling. It definitely was not running around throughout the colony looking for people to vomit inside of.
And don't think about saying "well there already were more aliens to protect it so it didn't need to". How do we know that the queen was not the second or third one to burst out? It could have been the first. It could have been egg-morphed by the first warrior alien. All of which makes more sense than saying it went after people all the way across the gap between the atsmosphere processing station and the entry to the main complex to hunt people down.
but it doent mean theres nothing 2 it, im just saying there no confliction.
Damn, this "barfing" idea sucks ass! >:(
If that's how a young queen reproduces..then why make eggs at all. This if far more efficient. ::)
This sucks! >:(
Sil = 100% right.
I'll have to convince myself that the Predalien got this trait from the Predators. :-[
"Queens are born, not made."
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Oct 27, 2007, 12:57:30 AMYeah, but you've been showing such an asinine attitude towards Colin! I have never seen such disregaurd and disrespect-- literally by saying that his vision is sucky on a message board where he frequents to have a pleasant interaction with the fans (which I am ashamed of those whom call themselves "fans")? What?! How can you have the gall to even do that?
It may be rude, but are we any more saintly for wishing Anderson's death behind his back over the Internet? Not all of us do, but the point is that we're all guilty of criticizing things over the Web. Colin seems to have a thick skin and came here understanding that things like this would happen. It may not be polite, but even professionals duke it out over the Web.
QuoteBreaking canon? I FAIL to see how that breaks canon. Again, I WILL state, we haven't seen what a PredAlien could do! In 1979, was the idea of a PredAlien thought up? No, not even a twinkle in someone's eye!
Please look at my previous response for my rebuttal.
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 01:04:48 AM
I'll have to convince myself that the Predalien got this trait from the Predators. :-[
....No, just no.
-Rakai'Thwei
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 01:04:48 AM
Damn, this "barfing" idea sucks ass! >:(
If that's how a young queen reproduces..then why make eggs at all. This if far more efficient. ::)
This sucks! >:(
Sil = 100% right.
I'll have to convince myself that the Predalien got this trait from the Predators. :-[
"Queens are born, not made."
yeah a developing queen having a temporary reproductive cycle just as efficient as laying eggs? That doesn't make too much sense. If this was an ability a lone alien had and could molt into a queen, then why did the alien in the DC of the first film, have to egg morph someone? It f**ks with the reproductive cycle way too much.
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Oct 26, 2007, 11:59:27 PM
Holy crap. Wow!
Brand new member here (hello everyone!).
Greetings. :)
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 26, 2007, 11:56:37 PM
If the predalien is molting into a queen ( ???) and needs to settle down and finish the process and then lay eggs, why would it be out hunting hosts and making itself vulnerable. So I'm not buying the whole "it needs to create an army to protect it" since it could be killed in the process of doing that, which is counterproductive to the perpetuation of the species.
That was one of my points, too. Queens don't need armies in advance. They shouldn't put themselves at such risk if they're so important. If they're heading towards being able to lay eggs, then all they need to do is get on and lay that minefield around them, then send the young out to seek hosts. It functions as a pre-made, dormant mass-protection.
Quote from: Demonio Cazador on Oct 27, 2007, 12:01:20 AM
Why can't people just wait to see the fricking movie?? ???
That's why I've made the point of saying that the film could well be very entertaining. We should, however, be within our respective rights to point out continuity errors in what details have been confirmed, whether within the film's own story or the two series, as a whole.
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Oct 27, 2007, 12:08:25 AM
No one likes to pay cash to see a big studio rape their favorite franchise.
George Lucas might disagree. :)
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Oct 27, 2007, 12:13:27 AM
Hmmm... I dunno SiL. I have just never been a fan of the egg morphing thing. However, I can tell by your posts that you really love that aspect of the life cycle. To be honest, I have never really considered it that carefully since it was cut out of Alien. I have a question though... if any alien can create an egg from a host victim, why have a queen at all? Sorry if this is becoming redundant.
Egg transformation demands two hosts: One to make the egg, the other to be hugged. It cuts down the available harvest by 50%. Queens increase it by 100%, because it then becomes one host per egg.
Simple mathematics, really. :)
Quote from: echobbase79 on Oct 27, 2007, 12:38:35 AM
Well, this is a different Alien creation all together and Predaliens weren't in the Alien films so how does this contradict those movies?
This being is totally different from the alien because its a hybrid. I guess it makes sense to have it's own way of producing. I don't know, pretty weird shit.
All Aliens are hybrids, in that sense. The others we've seen are just more hybridised with the human genetic template, that's all.
The reproductive cycle should not differ between them, as it's not a transferrable trait, so to speak, any more than having an inner mouth is. Predators don't seem to have tongues, but the Predalien still has one of those.
This could sit beside egging, but not now that we know the creature is transforming into a full Queen. It makes so many other established facts in the series biologically pointless. The only thing potentially saving it is that we might not see it actually undergo that change, in which case any theory would remain, well... Theoretical.
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 12:48:53 AM
necronoir, u sould read the post i put on page 29, i think it would mak sence that the queen would hav this method early on so she can create som drones 2 protect herself, but 1nce thats done, she sould use a safer method(insted of walking right up 2 a potentaly dangerous host), lik, creating eggs and using the drones 2 collect hosts and/or disperse the eggs.
As I said, there's no need for that. It can lay its own protection. People forget just how dangerous the eggs are and the previous film had the novel idea that they can apparently hatch and seek out their own hosts, if that's required.
Again, I think the visual of the Predalien using this method could
look very atmospheric. It just has major problems, when trying to make it logically fit in with what we know about the creatures, from all the other films.
did you forget that there are two facehuggers in the movie.....that most definitely means that there are at least 2 aliens that were born according to the normal cycle.....in other words who the hell laid those eggs.....predalien?, queen alien?...wait until the movie comes out
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 26, 2007, 08:08:15 AM
wtf? This better be just some idiot at fox f**king with us, or else this sucks royal ballsack. The predalien better not regurgitate embryos into people's mouths. That is totally f**king with the life cycle hands down. Egg morphing although somewhat controversial, is still reasonable especially when compared to this shit.
go here:
http://www.usatoday.com/life/gallery/l071025-avp2/flash.htm
then pic 4 as the topic starter said.
At least there might be a slight chance that the "regurgitating" is just what starts the egg morphing process instead of a tail injecting dna, but hey that's already changing the official reproductive cycle of the aliens. >:(
The idea that a developing Queen is able to spawn guards doesn't contradict what we've seen in any of the films so far, if anything, as I mentioned earlier, it adds a second angle to egg-morphing. The morphed hosts could very well be the result of the regurgitation embryo implantation, spawning guards rather than a Queen herself.
Although this puts the "super-facehugger" in an awkward position as well, since egg-morphing was supposedly meant to be the method by which they were created, although we've seen evidence that a Queen can lay an egg to produce a super-facehugger in order to spawn a second colony of aliens & further populate the species, so that fills in the gap fairly well.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Oct 27, 2007, 12:57:30 AM
Yeah, but you've been showing such an asinine attitude towards Colin! I have never seen such disregaurd and disrespect-- literally by saying that his vision is sucky on a message board where he frequents to have a pleasant interaction with the fans (which I am ashamed of those whom call themselves "fans")? What?! How can you have the gall to even do that?
Why should I respect him any more than I respect the fans who think Steve Perry's
Aliens novels should be held as canon? It's great that he comes here and talks to people - I appreciate and respect that - but it hardly outweighs the fact that I flat-out think his ideas are ridiculous, and just like any other person I feel no need to pussyfoot around saying so.
QuoteSeriously Sil.... judge the movie after you see it.
Their advertisement has failed to make me want to see the film. The advertisement exists to reel me in and it has solidly failed in doing so.
Quote from: TLDaniel on Oct 27, 2007, 01:09:29 AM
did you forget that there are two facehuggers in the movie.....that most definitely means that there are at least 2 aliens that were born according to the normal cycle.....in other words who the hell laid those eggs.....predalien?, queen alien?...wait until the movie comes out
The facehuggers come from tubes within the scout ship. The PredAlien comes from Scar, whose body was on the AVP ship.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Oct 27, 2007, 01:07:10 AM
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 01:04:48 AM
I'll have to convince myself that the Predalien got this trait from the Predators. :-[
....No, just no.
-Rakai'Thwei
LOL.... too late. ::)
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 27, 2007, 01:07:31 AM
yeah a developing queen having a temporary reproductive cycle just as efficient as laying eggs? That doesn't make too much sense. If this was an ability a lone alien had and could molt into a queen, then why did the alien in the DC of the first film, have to egg morph someone? It f**ks with the reproductive cycle way too much.
Yes. I like you.
Super-Facehuggers would have been a better way to go.
I love how some of the defenders of this retardation have skipped over my above post...and decided to go with the most complex and illogical fan-made, bullsh!t excuses for why this abomination (predalien) can vomit embryos...
Quote from: TLDaniel on Oct 27, 2007, 01:09:29 AM
did you forget that there are two facehuggers in the movie.....that most definitely means that there are at least 2 aliens that were born according to the normal cycle.....in other words who the hell laid those eggs.....predalien?, queen alien?...wait until the movie comes out
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 26, 2007, 08:08:15 AM
wtf? This better be just some idiot at fox f**king with us, or else this sucks royal ballsack. The predalien better not regurgitate embryos into people's mouths. That is totally f**king with the life cycle hands down. Egg morphing although somewhat controversial, is still reasonable especially when compared to this shit.
go here:
http://www.usatoday.com/life/gallery/l071025-avp2/flash.htm
then pic 4 as the topic starter said.
At least there might be a slight chance that the "regurgitating" is just what starts the egg morphing process instead of a tail injecting dna, but hey that's already changing the official reproductive cycle of the aliens. >:(
obviously those eggs were laid by a previously held captive queen, before it was send to a hunting site on some planet, maybe they were gathered from the queen in the first avp film.
This is the "NEWBORN" all over again. :'(
No, the Newborn made sense.
I'm gonna cry, I'm just gonna cry, regurgitating into peoples mouths? Oh and I agree:
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 01:18:02 AM
This is the "NEWBORN" all over again. :'(
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:51:52 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:49:41 PM
How does it show what happened to Lambert?
The Alien in that movie wasn't a young Queen.
Where do you think the queen came from in Aliens? Perhaps one of the domiant warriors became a young and queen and started the process. The simple fact is that it has never been shown before, so what are you arguing about?
Uh, no. The derelict was investigated and there were quite a few eggs laying around if you recall. Obiously someone was impregnated with a queen. Alien 3 blatantly demostrated that queens are queens from birth.
Quote from: Bio Mech Hunter on Oct 27, 2007, 01:23:42 AM
Uh, no. The derelict was investigated and there were quite a few eggs laying around if you recall. Obiously someone was impregnated with a queen. Alien 3 blatantly demostrated that queens are queens from birth.
[/quote]
Exactly.
This is worse than the Newborn.
So the Aliens skip the eggs and facehuggers now? I don't get it. Why the hell would the Aliens bother having eggs and facehuggers if, essentially, the adults could do the exact same shit without the hassle and tussle of having to bring people to their nest and taking care of eggs, ect.?
The Aliens must be a bunch of dumbasses. They could just kill their Queens, and have these Pre-Queen things run around barfing into people. So what if she dies? Just have some other moron molt.
It'd be like starfish hacking off their limbs to keep increasing their numbers. They don't do it because they ain't that smart. Guess the Aliens aren't, either.
i think that we should be thankful that the director even bothers to post in the forums, they usually dont do that so regardless if you like or dont like his ideas, the fact that he is posting in this forum and taking shit by many of you should be appreciated. The idea of the face rapeing is new and intresting, its something that has never been seen before so i will be looking foward to it. When you think it through its not a bad idea. A queen with no drones would be very vunerable in a hostile evironment so she has to find a way to produce drones and keep movile so face raping a victim would solve this two problems. Why doesnt she face rapes latter? becouse she has already drones to defend her and she can use all her energys to produce new aliens instead of running around looking for a host for her embryos. thanks Colin for your time we really appreciate it, my only concern for now is that the predators mandibles close properly, i hope you have fixed that.
As I keep saying.
Aliens farting lightning bolts would be new and, let's face it, interesting. Doesn't mean it should ever happen.
I kind of like this idea, it brings back the self-reliance of the Alien. They don't need to rely on producing eggs, they can physically turn people into hosts.
BUT...wait a minute...if the Predalien has this ability then why doesn't he face-rape the Predators on the ship and make more Predaliens?
Quote from: PredJaspert on Oct 27, 2007, 01:39:01 AM
When you think it through its not a bad idea.
Wrong...when you (not you specifically, I'm being general) actually think it through and stop sucking on the brother's balls, you will realize that it
IS a bad idea...
Quote from: superunknown on Oct 27, 2007, 01:42:56 AM
BUT...wait a minute...if the Predalien has this ability then why doesn't he face-rape the Predators on the ship and make more Predaliens?
Because that notion would require logic...
I appreciate those guys even more now, they really have a lot of patience to stand all this negative comments. i know that people have different opinions but arguing all day wont make any difference in the final movie. And Gates can suck major balls, im dont agree with the director in everything but i agree with this idea so i like it no matter what you think
Jeez everyone here is waaaay overreacting. If you want to keep EVERYTHING the way it is, then why would you want a new movie to come out, just go watch ALiens over and over again. The idea of making a sequel is about progress, not just repetition. I think what they've done just makes everything more interesting, it makes sense for an adolescent queen to have such a function to make herself more dependent in case something happens to the warriors. I mean, a queen would need a method of producing warriors to guard her while she grew into the egg bearing queen. While many will say thats what the so called "super facehugger" from Alien 3 is for, havent considered what would happen if that single alien warrior was somehow killed.
If anything, this addition just makes the Xenomorph race that much more parasitic.
Colin=Neat
Whiners=No one is making you post here.
But should said function negate the need for the rest of the lifecycle? ???
I mean, having a separate life form in the lifecycle whose sole purpose is to go and rape someone seems pretty parasitic to me.
Quote from: PredJaspert on Oct 27, 2007, 01:49:04 AM
[...] And Gates can suck major balls, im dont agree with the director in everything but i agree with this idea so i like it no matter what you think
Clearly you are blind and/or stupid because I specifically pointed out in my post that I was not targeting you...but so be it...if you wish to put yourself in the
blowers group that's fine by me...
Quote from: Monbackey on Oct 27, 2007, 01:53:08 AM
Colin=Neat
Whiners=No one is making you post here.
Blowers=Don't have to read our posts.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:40:45 PM
A queen needs to build it's army to protect her before making herself mostly defenseless when laying eggs. We have now established what that phase it.
What about the facehuggers on the pred's ship? What about the pred alien already on it? This lifecycle is unnecessary, and doesn't sync with what's already been established in the Alien films. Nothing more is needed to be "established" with the alien's lifecycle. Especially in this case. Also, Aliens have shown to be very stealthy and go into hiding when in developement, at which they do at an extreme rate. By the time anyone knows they're there, it's too late.
Everything that's been established about these two species in all the Alien and Predator films should be followed closely (which goes without saying). Anything that's expanded on or added to these fantastic creatures should use the prior films as a basis on build upon it using sound logic. You can't have sound logic without knowledge on the subject in question. Each aspect should have a purpose that makes sense, doesn't step on what's been previously established, and not unnecessary. I know a lot of fans who feel the same way. I'm really starting to wonder how much you and Greg know about the Aliens, Predators and the films.
Granted we haven't seen AVP:R yet and I'm not passing final opinion until I do, but this film is looking more and more like one of the AVP comics or games rather than the Alien and Predator films we all know and love. I'm trying to keep high hopes, but it's becoming more and more difficult when news like this is released.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 27, 2007, 01:01:30 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 12:56:49 AM
I'm still clinging on to my genetic freak idea.
Well, gotta remember that Anderson's Aliens were mutated by the Predators and that messed up their life cycle so...there's that...well...that's just a fandom idea but.
Technically, they weren't mutated rather than have been given growth acceleration hormones which were injected into the queen. It's one of the scenes Anderson didn't get to include in the final cut.
Quote from: Gates on Oct 27, 2007, 01:57:39 AM
Quote from: PredJaspert on Oct 27, 2007, 01:49:04 AM
[...] And Gates can suck major balls, im dont agree with the director in everything but i agree with this idea so i like it no matter what you think
Clearly you are blind and/or stupid because I specifically pointed out in my post that I was not targeting you...but so be it...if you wish to put yourself in the blowers group that's fine by me...
Quote from: Monbackey on Oct 27, 2007, 01:53:08 AM
Colin=Neat
Whiners=No one is making you post here.
Blowers=Don't have to read our posts.
Well at least we spend time reading a board based around something we actually like and look forward to. Most would consider what you are doing to be a waste of time for yourself......
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 01:18:02 AM
This is the "NEWBORN" all over again. :'(
Yes, but the newborn made sense and it fullfilled it's purpose the way Jeunet intended it... it was an abomination that grossed us all out. lol ;)
I will call it a good idea IF the dierector can justify why the Predalien regurgitates into peoples mouths, if not, then it is an awful idea.
Quote from: Monbackey on Oct 27, 2007, 02:01:43 AMWell at least we spend time reading a board based around something we actually like and look forward to. Most would consider what you are doing to be a waste of time for yourself......
Talk about calling the kettle black...and what exactly validates your flaming of another member of the forum? That's not allowed under any circumstance.
Quote from: Monbackey on Oct 27, 2007, 02:01:43 AM
Well at least we spend time reading a board based around something we actually like and look forward to. Most would consider what you are doing to be a waste of time for yourself......
I'm entitled to do as I wish with my time, without justification to you...deal with it...
Quote from: Private Hudson on Oct 27, 2007, 02:04:25 AM
I will call it a good idea IF the dierector can justify why the Predalien regurgitates into peoples mouths, if not, then it is an awful idea.
And just why the Aliens still need eggs and facehuggers. Is there some side effect to this method of reproduction? Are the Aliens born with down syndrome? Are they impotent retards? Is that why Wolf can kick the shit out of them so easily?
How is that flaming? Is my post phrased in a fair way without flaming, nor is it insulting. I'm not the one flaming. ;)
Gates sorry if the comment came a little aggressive, thats not what i meant. I just saying that you cant tell that everyone who is interested in seeing this new phase of the life cycle is wrong and can suck balls, if you don't like its your problem. The face hugger s that came form the predator ship maybe are form another alien colony and if so they won t defend the pred alien because she is not related to them. The aliens have many insect qualities and insects from different colonies don't get along so maybe that explains why the pred alien uses this new cycle. Its just an idea, but maybe it explains some loose ends.
The new alien life cycle maybe because of the enhanced growing up hormone that the Preds gave aliens? Nah...I don't know....
This topic needs a poll.
Quote from: PredJaspert on Oct 27, 2007, 01:39:01 AM
i think that we should be thankful that the director even bothers to post in the forums, they usually dont do that so regardless if you like or dont like his ideas, the fact that he is posting in this forum and taking shit by many of you should be appreciated.
I've made a point of thanking the guy for doing so and, also, trying to make any criticism I post of a constructive nature. If I see how certain thngs could or should have been improved, then I try to point out such things in a positive light.
I would never seek to insult anyone in the production team for not staying true to their principles or suffering from a lack of integrity, if they have the courage to interact with us. To do so would be folly and needless.
QuoteThe idea of the face rapeing is new and intresting, its something that has never been seen before so i will be looking foward to it.
I don't think the visual will necessarily be bad. In fact, it'll probably be very iconic. I think it will return to some of the atmosphere the original '
Alien' generated.
Unfortunately, it's doing that at the expense of what was represented in the films which have gone before it.
If this was some other new film, with its own creature, I think most of us would be saying, hey, go for it, it sounds creepy. Because it's in a franchise, it should be expected to conform to certain rules, however and the fans of this one are intelligent - and passionate - enough to realise that.
QuoteWhen you think it through its not a bad idea. A queen with no drones would be very vunerable in a hostile evironment so she has to find a way to produce drones and keep movile so face raping a victim would solve this two problems. Why doesnt she face rapes latter? becouse she has already drones to defend her and she can use all her energys to produce new aliens instead of running around looking for a host for her embryos. thanks Colin for your time we really appreciate it, my only concern for now is that the predators mandibles close properly, i hope you have fixed that.
Like I said, the Queen is
not vulnerable. How many living creatures do you seriously think would be able to make it past a floor full of eggs?
Eggs
are the Queen's protection. Eggs
are dangerous. Just because they're dormant doesn't make them any less lethal.
The Queen doesn't need to have active protection. A few adults will be near, just in case, but not necessarily to guard. They're spending most of their time making sure the Queen doesn't lay up a mountain of the things behind her and are spreading them around.
The Queen's best form of protection would be to seek out somewhere safe and quiet. Many of us thought the hospital and sewers were going to be used as nursery chambers for the egging process, to exemplify precisely this.
Queens are too valuable to go out seeking confrontation. Their job should ultimately be to set up home somewhere and fortify it with what they do best.
Well, all I'm gunna say is at least it won't be a boring movie.
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 27, 2007, 01:12:25 AM
Quote from: TLDaniel on Oct 27, 2007, 01:09:29 AM
did you forget that there are two facehuggers in the movie.....that most definitely means that there are at least 2 aliens that were born according to the normal cycle.....in other words who the hell laid those eggs.....predalien?, queen alien?...wait until the movie comes out
The facehuggers come from tubes within the scout ship. The PredAlien comes from Scar, whose body was on the AVP ship.
Truly. And the fact that there
were face huggers on the ship as well as the pred alien itself, out right negates the concept and need to have the pred alien fulfill the queen's role in the manner it does *shutters*. Surely the Strause Bros. could've made one of the facehuggers a Super.
When it comes right down to it, I feel this concept has more to do with budget and/or time restraints to implement a proper (pred alien?) queen rather than wanting to do "something new and exciting". In which case, will piss off a lot of fans greatly. Of course, the pred alien's unnecessary reproductive abilities are already doing that.
Quote from: PredJaspert on Oct 27, 2007, 02:08:50 AM
Gates sorry if the comment came a little aggressive, thats not what i meant. [...]
I appreciate the apology...but there's no need to, I'm nobody to you...believe me, you're not the first to challenge me and surely won't be the last... ;)
Added a necessary last option. :)
I like the idea of it, but don't like how it contradicts what's been established. It renders too many things obselete.
oh yeah. that's cool.
I'm just hoping that the regurgitation process isn't like Night Of The Creeps!
(You know the spiting alien leeches all over the face of the victem in order too
take control of the host! ::) )
But anyway I've been reading the post here from day one of AVP production
And AVP-R And Let Me Say I Didn't know that there were so many Million dollar
movie making cri-dicks out there and just how hard it is making a movie like this with
such an extensive background. But Like I've Always Said "I have faith in the Bros.
and the team and money (Lacking in the money part!) behind this go around of
these franchises and now the trailors are out and more and more comes out I
stand behind my words and still have even more faith that they did a fine job!!!
And you want to bring up cannon? Well lets all pondder that after we see the damn
thing! And SIL become a director so you can have your movie just the way the
GREAT SIL says It Should be! But till than try to use a little more tact when addressing
a movie maker like Colin! Anyhoo I'm liking what I'm seeing and I'm going too keep on
promoting the best for the brothers so we can see an AVP 3, Alien 5 Or even a Predator 3!
I just know that I love this sci-fi/horror stuff so much I'm happy after 30 years Fox is still
into these creatures regaurdless what all use hardcore fans say or nay sayers!
So with all that being said I KNEW I WAS RIGHT ABOUT THE PREDALIENS AND SIL's
REACTION TOO ANYTHING!!!
PEACE ALL!!!
I'll Be Reading!
;)
I voted for the last option. I like that Colin professes it to be dark with dubious undertones, but I don't like that this is a movie working within the canon of the films yet doesn't seem to fully recognize the reproductive facts we know.
do you think that face hugger s could defend the queen from beings like a fully trained predator? i don't think they would stand a chance. both ways of reproducing have their positive and negative sides, she can lay eggs and hope that the face hugger s find victims (this doesn't guarantee that the embryos will mature because the victim can be killed) or she can face rape victims with embryos herself which is risky too but at least she will be mobile and difficult to track. I don't know, i will have to see the movie to make a real judgment.
This topic is devolving at record pace...some punctuation in between the insults might be choice.
I can't believe the pred alien's design has already been publicly shown and the film doesn't get released in theaters for a couple months here in the States. That right there sucks out any suspense from seeing it in the film for the first time (toward the end). Even Jeunet had enough sense to "suprise" us with the newborn.
I must say I'm very disappointed the pred alien has been given the pred's flesh tone. Not to mention the dreadlocks. *shudders* It's so close to being the ideal pred alien design, yet two of the most important pred alien design "no-nos" have been implemented. What makes this such a big deal is that this an AVP MOVIE, not some measly, skewed comic or game.
Quote from: PredJaspert on Oct 27, 2007, 02:23:42 AM
do you think that face hugger s could defend the queen from beings like a fully trained predator? i don't think they would stand a chance.
One certainly did. Perhaps even two of them.
Nature doesn't plan for guns, but a sudden barrage of countless leaping facehuggers are as good as.
In any case, the Predator has to find it, first.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 27, 2007, 02:14:29 AM
Quote from: PredJaspert on Oct 27, 2007, 01:39:01 AM
i think that we should be thankful that the director even bothers to post in the forums, they usually dont do that so regardless if you like or dont like his ideas, the fact that he is posting in this forum and taking shit by many of you should be appreciated.
I've made a point of thanking the guy for doing so and, also, trying to make any criticism I post of a constructive nature. If I see how certain thngs could or should have been improved, then I try to point out such things in a positive light.
I would never seek to insult anyone in the production team for not staying true to their principles or suffering from a lack of integrity, if they have the courage to interact with us. To do so would be folly and needless.
QuoteThe idea of the face rapeing is new and intresting, its something that has never been seen before so i will be looking foward to it.
I don't think the visual will necessarily be bad. In fact, it'll probably be very iconic. I think it will return to some of the atmosphere the original 'Alien' generated.
Unfortunately, it's doing that at the expense of what was represented in the films which have gone before it.
If this was some other new film, with its own creature, I think most of us would be saying, hey, go for it, it sounds creepy. Because it's in a franchise, it should be expected to conform to certain rules, however and the fans of this one are intelligent - and passionate - enough to realise that.
QuoteWhen you think it through its not a bad idea. A queen with no drones would be very vunerable in a hostile evironment so she has to find a way to produce drones and keep movile so face raping a victim would solve this two problems. Why doesnt she face rapes latter? becouse she has already drones to defend her and she can use all her energys to produce new aliens instead of running around looking for a host for her embryos. thanks Colin for your time we really appreciate it, my only concern for now is that the predators mandibles close properly, i hope you have fixed that.
Like I said, the Queen is not vulnerable. How many living creatures do you seriously think would be able to make it past a floor full of eggs?
Eggs are the Queen's protection. Eggs are dangerous. Just because they're dormant doesn't make them any less lethal.
The Queen doesn't need to have active protection. A few adults will be near, just in case, but not necessarily to guard. They're spending most of their time making sure the Queen doesn't lay up a mountain of the things behind her and are spreading them around.
The Queen's best form of protection would be to seek out somewhere safe and quiet. Many of us thought the hospital and sewers were going to be used as nursery chambers for the egging process, to exemplify precisely this.
Queens are too valuable to go out seeking confrontation. Their job should ultimately be to set up home somewhere and fortify it with what they do best.
Once again, Xenomorphine... you've hit the nail on the head. lol ;)
Don't worry, I'm sure you'll find something to hate my guts for, eventually. :)
I hate this new life cycle. >:(
Do you think that they're trying to say that since the movie takes place before Alien that the lifecycle of the Predalien is cannon since Alien hasn't even happened yet in the story? In a story since (if you choose to look at like this) we don't know the alien reproduction system yet.
Think of it as a continuation thing. :-\
Fox you should have made this in space the first time!!!! >:(
Quote from: echobbase79 on Oct 27, 2007, 02:37:03 AMDo you think that they're trying to say that since the movie takes place before Alien that the lifecycle of the Predalien is cannon
Essentially, if what Colin is insinuating is to be believed. Not only to the PredAlien, but to Queens in general.
Quote from: PredJaspert on Oct 27, 2007, 01:39:01 AM
i think that we should be thankful that the director even bothers to post in the forums, they usually dont do that so regardless if you like or dont like his ideas, the fact that he is posting in this forum and taking shit by many of you should be appreciated. The idea of the face rapeing is new and intresting, its something that has never been seen before so i will be looking foward to it. When you think it through its not a bad idea. A queen with no drones would be very vunerable in a hostile evironment so she has to find a way to produce drones and keep movile so face raping a victim would solve this two problems. Why doesnt she face rapes latter? becouse she has already drones to defend her and she can use all her energys to produce new aliens instead of running around looking for a host for her embryos. thanks Colin for your time we really appreciate it, my only concern for now is that the predators mandibles close properly, i hope you have fixed that.
Don't get me wrong, I'm extremely grateful that he's taking time out of his very busy schedule to interact with all of us fans (Colin, if you're reading this; thank you!). For a director to step out and do this sort of thing is almost unheard of, but as fans who are committed (dare I say some of us are unhealthily rabid) just as much if not more to the Alien, Predator, and AVP series as they are, we have every right to critique, correct and voice our own opinions. Granted, not everyone here is doing it in a respectable, intelligent manner, unfortunately. lol
Just cos Colin's a filmmaker, and filmmaking is tough as nails rolled in concrete, doesn't make his ideas any less stupid in my eyes. I have a tendency to call a spade a spade and see no reason why Colin should get any preferential treatment when it comes to talking about his ideas.
I really don't see how it is seen as contradicting something that has never been seen on film, or confirmed. Besides, nothing has been changed. This is just another cycle added on. It's not a very efficient way to reproduce, but as long as it gets them to where they need to be for the Queen to fully develope, why is it a problem?
I remember reading many posts from members here that said they would have a problem if it was egg-morphing. It's to slow a process and so on. Now we have something NEWand now there problems with that. How can something new, unexplored, and never seen on film contradict anything. This new idea isn't discrediting the old. It's simply adding on, or evolving and adapting to survive.
I would think that once a queen reaches full maturity, this new idea would no longer be needed. It would once again start laying eggs. Facehuggers are a far more efficient to populate. In a different situation, the Alien may have a different method of reproducing. Aliens adapt well to their environment. Since this is the first time this timeline of the Aliens' life cycle has been explored in film, there are no rules being broken. No cannon being over written. This is establishing something new.
Quote from: Invisible Darkness on Oct 27, 2007, 02:42:23 AM
I really don't see how it is seen as contradicting something that has never been seen on film, or confirmed. Besides, nothing has been changed. This is just another cycle added on. It's not a very efficient way to reproduce, but as long as it gets them to where they need to be for the Queen to fully develope, why is it a problem?
I remember reading many posts from members here that said they would have a problem if it was egg-morphing. It's to slow a process and so on. Now we have something NEWand now there problems with that. How can something new, unexplored, and never seen on film contradict anything. This new idea isn't discrediting the old. It's simply adding on, or evolving and adapting to survive.
I would think that once a queen has reaches it's full maturity, this new idea would no longer be needed. It would once again start laying eggs. In a different situation, the Alien may have a different method of reproducing. Aliens adapt well to their environment. Since this is the first time this timeline of the Aliens' life cycle has been explored in film, there are no rules being broken. No cannon being over written. This is establishing something new.
Well spoken.
Let me try to piece this mess together:
The Queen lays the eggs. If the queen feels there is danger to herself or the hive she has the ability to produce a super facehugger which carries another queen embryo and a drone to carry on the hive. With the absence of a queen a single drone or in this case predalien has the ability to either egg morph or impregnate its victims via regurgitation and this one drone or predalien will eventually molt into a queen thus starting the process over. Boom.
The way I see it, Aliens are all about fear first and foremost, and the idea of reproduction this way just makes them scarier. It's not like this'll be the first time that something that didn't exist previously suddenly exists. Ridge-Head Aliens, the concept of taking DNA from hosts, a Queen, none of these things were part of the original Alien, and yet they quickly became accepted. People can say that these things don't mess with the continuity because they can be explained, but no matter how you look at it, any addition can be explained somehow, and while many of you guys are pissed about it now, you won't be by the time a few more Alien films have been cranked out.
It'll become an accepted part of continuity in time, and will have it's explanation.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 02:41:59 AM
Just cos Colin's a filmmaker, and filmmaking is tough as nails rolled in concrete, doesn't make his ideas any less stupid in my eyes. I have a tendency to call a spade a spade and see no reason why Colin should get any preferential treatment when it comes to talking about his ideas.
I agree with that. Well the part about him getting preferential treatment that is.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 02:41:59 AM
Just cos Colin's a filmmaker, and filmmaking is tough as nails rolled in concrete, doesn't make his ideas any less stupid in my eyes. I have a tendency to call a spade a spade and see no reason why Colin should get any preferential treatment when it comes to talking about his ideas.
::) !!!!!!!
Quote from: Gremlien on Oct 27, 2007, 02:46:46 AM
The way I see it, Aliens are all about fear first and foremost, and the idea of reproduction this way just makes them scarier. It's not like this'll be the first time that something that didn't exist previously suddenly exists. Ridge-Head Aliens, the concept of taking DNA from hosts, a Queen, none of these things were part of the original Alien, and yet they quickly became accepted. People can say that these things don't mess with the continuity because they can be explained, but no matter how you look at it, any addition can be explained somehow, and while many of you guys are pissed about it now, you won't be by the time a few more Alien films have been cranked out.l
Yes, but they all made, at the very least, some sense and didn't step on anything already established. They weren't unnecessary.
The canon issue isn't so much with what's being introduced as with how. It's all under the assumption that Ripley was wrong in her assessment of the Queen's immediate danger, that Cameron's explanation for Aliens doesn't apply, and that no one aboard the Auriga noticed that the Queen could have produced young without eggs yet waited for them nonetheless.
Quote from: Bio Mech Hunter on Oct 27, 2007, 02:50:08 AM
Quote from: Gremlien on Oct 27, 2007, 02:46:46 AM
The way I see it, Aliens are all about fear first and foremost, and the idea of reproduction this way just makes them scarier. It's not like this'll be the first time that something that didn't exist previously suddenly exists. Ridge-Head Aliens, the concept of taking DNA from hosts, a Queen, none of these things were part of the original Alien, and yet they quickly became accepted. People can say that these things don't mess with the continuity because they can be explained, but no matter how you look at it, any addition can be explained somehow, and while many of you guys are pissed about it now, you won't be by the time a few more Alien films have been cranked out.l
Yes, but they all made, at the very least, some sense and didn't step on anything already established. They weren't unnecessary, either.
At some point, all of those made no sense, and weren't really needed. The series could have been successful and it would have never needed a Queen, or more than one, or hybridism, or anything that's been introduced over time. An explanation will be churned out for this just like one has been for everything, and it will no longer "not make sense and step on anything already established" at all.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 02:41:59 AM
Just cos Colin's a filmmaker, and filmmaking is tough as nails rolled in concrete, doesn't make his ideas any less stupid in my eyes. I have a tendency to call a spade a spade and see no reason why Colin should get any preferential treatment when it comes to talking about his ideas.
Agreed. The best part about these movies is the passion that the fans have for them, even if we all totally disagree.
I really don't see how it is seen as contradicting something that has never been seen on film, or confirmed. Besides, nothing has been changed. This is just another cycle added on. It's not a very efficient way to reproduce, but as long as it gets them to where they need to be for the Queen to fully develope, why is it a problem?
I remember reading many posts from members here that said they would have a problem if it was egg-morphing. It's to slow a process and so on. Now we have something NEWand now there problems with that. How can something new, unexplored, and never seen on film contradict anything. This new idea isn't discrediting the old. It's simply adding on, or evolving and adapting to survive.
I would think that once a queen reaches full maturity, this new idea would no longer be needed. It would once again start laying eggs. Facehuggers are a far more efficient to populate. In a different situation, the Alien may have a different method of reproducing. Aliens adapt well to their environment. Since this is the first time this timeline of the Aliens' life cycle has been explored in film, there are no rules being broken. No cannon being over written. This is establishing something new.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 27, 2007, 02:53:39 AM
Agreed. The best part about these movies is the passion that the fans have for them, even if we all totally disagree.
See? Isn't he great folks?
Just ... please, for the love of God. Don't make AvP 3.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 27, 2007, 02:53:39 AMAgreed. The best part about these movies is the passion that the fans have for them, even if we all totally disagree.
I must say, that's a pretty amicable response amidst the negativity. 8)
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 02:54:58 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 27, 2007, 02:53:39 AM
Agreed. The best part about these movies is the passion that the fans have for them, even if we all totally disagree.
See? Isn't he great folks?
Just ... please, for the love of God. Don't make AvP 3.
I have this great idea for a Predator Mind killing weapon. He just looks at an Alien and it explodes... sound great huh?
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 09:11:10 PM
The Queen's messed-up nature only came into play the end, after she'd gone through her natural reproductive process.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 09:09:37 PM
I love how something is "lame-ass" when you haven't seen it at all.
Barf goes the PredAlien into the person's mouth, with all loving close-ups of icky goo and someone being forced to swallow.
Really. Gimme egg morphing any day.
One problem there, genius; the egg morphing was cut from the OFFICIAL film, it's not canon, it was the DIRECTOR's take on the movie, which last time I checked, isn't canon either, therefore Colin is not forced to use it, since it is not official continuity, is he? ::) Boy, you really need to do your homework, SiL.
And someone before mentioned how it wasn't hard for the runner alien in A3 to defend the queen, OF COURSE IT WASN'T! You think a bunch UN-ARMED prisoners are going to put up that much of a fight? Hell, most of them were killed trying the lure the damn thing into the furnace. If it had been facing against CMs, it would've gotten it's ass blown off.
Quote from: Invisible Darkness on Oct 27, 2007, 02:54:47 AM
I really don't see how it is seen as contradicting something that has never been seen on film, or confirmed. Besides, nothing has been changed. This is just another cycle added on. It's not a very efficient way to reproduce, but as long as it gets them to where they need to be for the Queen to fully develope, why is it a problem?
I remember reading many posts from members here that said they would have a problem if it was egg-morphing. It's to slow a process and so on. Now we have something NEWand now there problems with that. How can something new, unexplored, and never seen on film contradict anything. This new idea isn't discrediting the old. It's simply adding on, or evolving and adapting to survive.
I would think that once a queen reaches full maturity, this new idea would no longer be needed. It would once again start laying eggs. Facehuggers are a far more efficient to populate. In a different situation, the Alien may have a different method of reproducing. Aliens adapt well to their environment. Since this is the first time this timeline of the Aliens' life cycle has been explored in film, there are no rules being broken. No cannon being over written. This is establishing something new.
Because it's a concept that isn't needed. Particularly in this case.
Quote from: The Cleaner on Oct 27, 2007, 02:56:30 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 09:11:10 PM
The Queen's messed-up nature only came into play the end, after she'd gone through her natural reproductive process.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 09:09:37 PM
I love how something is "lame-ass" when you haven't seen it at all.
Barf goes the PredAlien into the person's mouth, with all loving close-ups of icky goo and someone being forced to swallow.
Really. Gimme egg morphing any day.
One problem there, genius; the egg morphing was cut from the OFFICIAL film, it's not canon, it was the DIRECTOR's take on the movie, which last time I checked, isn't canon either, therefore Colin is not forced to use it, since it is not official continuity, are he? ::) Boy, you really need to your homework, SiL.
And someone before mentioned how it wasn't hard for the runner alien in A3 to defend the queen, OF COURSE IT WASN'T! You think a bunch UN-ARMED prisoners are going to put up that much of a fight? Hell, most of them were killed trying the lure the damn thing into the furnace. If it had been facing against CMs, it would've gotten it's ass blown off.
Truly.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 27, 2007, 02:56:07 AM
I have this great idea for a Predator Mind killing weapon. He just looks at an Alien and it explodes... sound great huh?
Dude, what a f**king stupid idea!
The Predators should obviously have Aliens on a leash. And a collar. Ever see
The Running Man? They go past a certain point, boom, their heads explode.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 02:58:11 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 27, 2007, 02:56:07 AM
I have this great idea for a Predator Mind killing weapon. He just looks at an Alien and it explodes... sound great huh?
Dude, what a f**king stupid idea!
The Predators should obviously have Aliens on a leash. And a collar. Ever see The Running Man? They go past a certain point, boom, their heads explode.
He's just playing, man. lol
A Queen wasn't needed either, but it's since been accepted. And SiL...you know what the word "joke" means, right?
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 02:58:11 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 27, 2007, 02:56:07 AM
I have this great idea for a Predator Mind killing weapon. He just looks at an Alien and it explodes... sound great huh?
Dude, what a f**king stupid idea!
The Predators should obviously have Aliens on a leash. And a collar. Ever see The Running Man? They go past a certain point, boom, their heads explode.
See, we can come together and make magic....or something. :)
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 27, 2007, 02:56:07 AM
I have this great idea for a Predator Mind killing weapon. He just looks at an Alien and it explodes... sound great huh?
Great...that's all the predator fans need to see to fully masturbate the night away ...Jedi-Predators... ;)
Quote from: The Cleaner on Oct 27, 2007, 02:56:30 AM
One problem there, genius; the egg morphing was cut from the OFFICIAL film, it's not canon, it was the DIRECTOR's take on the movie, which last time I checked, isn't canon either, therefore Colin is not forced to use it, since it is not official continuity, are he? ::) Boy, you really need to do your homework, SiL.
...I'm gonna ignore the last part.
But still, egg morphing was established in
1979. Random New Barfing Technique is entirely superfluous and nowhere near as good an idea. I don't need to see it to know it's not as layered as what the morphing brings to the table.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 27, 2007, 02:59:05 AM
See, we can come together and make magic....or something. :)
Tell you what. I write, you direct. We'd make billions.
I don't expect you Predator guys to understand...however, if you look at this from our perspective, how would you feel?
Let's say that AVP:R makes it so that Predators reproduce the same way as this new abomination, and the Predalien derived this new ability because of the Preds. Would you simply accept this? Probably not, even though this is the best explanation for this new ability. We have never seen an alien do this kinda crap before. Not once in 5 movies, so why start now?
This whole concept was totally ill advised.
Sure it's just a movie, but to some of us it's a hobby.
SiL's just playing, too. :D
Still, though...telekenisis is cool, mind-blowing Preds non-withstanding. :P
Quote from: Gates on Oct 27, 2007, 02:59:14 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 27, 2007, 02:56:07 AM
I have this great idea for a Predator Mind killing weapon. He just looks at an Alien and it explodes... sound great huh?
Great...that's all the predator fans need to see to fully masturbate the night away ...Jedi-Predators... ;)
Masturbage the night away? Please. I stop at 4 am. Pfft...masturbate the night away...
Quote from: Gates on Oct 27, 2007, 02:59:14 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 27, 2007, 02:56:07 AM
I have this great idea for a Predator Mind killing weapon. He just looks at an Alien and it explodes... sound great huh?
Great...that's all the predator fans need to see to fully masturbate the night away ...Jedi-Predators... ;)
Be careful Fox might get wind of this and try to make it happen. Hey, there's your AvP 3 for ya. ;)
Quote from: Bio Mech Hunter on Oct 27, 2007, 02:56:56 AM
Quote from: Invisible Darkness on Oct 27, 2007, 02:54:47 AM
I really don't see how it is seen as contradicting something that has never been seen on film, or confirmed. Besides, nothing has been changed. This is just another cycle added on. It's not a very efficient way to reproduce, but as long as it gets them to where they need to be for the Queen to fully develope, why is it a problem?
I remember reading many posts from members here that said they would have a problem if it was egg-morphing. It's to slow a process and so on. Now we have something NEWand now there problems with that. How can something new, unexplored, and never seen on film contradict anything. This new idea isn't discrediting the old. It's simply adding on, or evolving and adapting to survive.
I would think that once a queen reaches full maturity, this new idea would no longer be needed. It would once again start laying eggs. Facehuggers are a far more efficient to populate. In a different situation, the Alien may have a different method of reproducing. Aliens adapt well to their environment. Since this is the first time this timeline of the Aliens' life cycle has been explored in film, there are no rules being broken. No cannon being over written. This is establishing something new.
Because it's a concept that isn't needed. Particularly in this case.
It's not a concept. It's in the new film. Without an egg-laying Queen, how is this not needed? If you don't like the idea, that's up to you. There does, however, need to be some way to reproduce. I like the New idea.
Hey Colin, on hydraulx.com it says that there will be some specials abouts AvP-R...but no AVP-R stuff is on hydraulx yet.... What gives?
Quote from: Gates on Oct 27, 2007, 02:59:14 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 27, 2007, 02:56:07 AM
I have this great idea for a Predator Mind killing weapon. He just looks at an Alien and it explodes... sound great huh?
Great...that's all the predator fans need to see to fully masturbate the night away ...Jedi-Predators... ;)
lol man lol!!!
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 09:33:07 PM
Queens are born Queens. We know this. They clearly look like Queens, with multiple limbs and a crown.
We also know that if an Alien can molt into a Queen, egg morphing, and Queens being born Queens, is entirely redundant.
I gave it some thought, and came up with that it's a genetic freak of nature and in no way indicative of what a normal Alien could do under normal circumstances. In a long enough time frame misshaps are going to happens, and that's what the PredAlien is; an abnormality, possibly caused by whatever steroids the Preds used the speed up the life cycle in AvP (yes, I'm accepting that bullshit for the sake of this argument) messing up how an Alien interacts with Pred biology and creating a hermaphroditic freak of nature with a mutated reproductive method.
It's not a Queen, or a drone, but a mix of both which can utilise a hybrid version of the available reproductive methods of both - Egg morphing and egg laying. If it molts throughout the movie, that's part of the f**k up.
There. Problem solved.
Oh God, this has been really really painful to read. I 'm a huge Alien and Predator fan. I love all the movies for different reasons including AVP I have read over 20 pages of this "debate" and finally Sil, I have to say you seem to have the concept surrounded and surmized while not succinctly at least more or less correctly.
I didn't get the chance to read the graphic novels that much and its been a while since I even looked at one so I don't know if I missed anything in there, BUT genetic pairings of such a haphazard nature create completely separate characteristics. As much as we do know as to what it is there is probably even more we don't know. The real truth as to whether this is an acceptable form to be added to the canon is how it is approached and how it works.
Within these confines both species present very dominant gene traits. I suspect since the Alien seems to have initially been bio engineered, the end result of an Alien being born from a different species the genetic information of the Alien would end up overtaking and adapting its host. The basic prime instinct it seems to me is not a question of survival but a question of take over and transformation to ensure the dominance of the species.
The simple truth is we don't know how an Alien would react or change to overcome and dominate its surroundings in any circumstances with anything other than human.
I think in AVP while I was not totally pleased with the speed of the chestburster as compared to other Alien films it could have been dealt with much better. Perhaps in a way that suggests this particular Alien Queen might be from somewhere else and because she had been frozen and then thawed out every century she could also be older and possibly her genetics may be more pure to the nature of her species allowing chestbursting to happen so quickly or it could have been manipulated by the Predators to speed up the process so hunts could begin and and end quick.
Thanks for allowing a newbie to ramble somewhat. I guess the point of what I am trying to make is we don't know what would come from an alien being born from a Predator since we really don't know that much about the Predators anyway. And despite all their attributes and Technology it seems the Predators are not immune from f**king up big time with these creatures due to that visceral primality which makes Aliens so terrifying and unstoppable.
Quote from: T-X on Oct 27, 2007, 03:02:32 AM
Hey Colin, on hydraulx.com it says that there will be some specials abouts AvP-R...but no AVP-R stuff is on hydraulx yet.... What gives?
We are in our last week, so no one is worried about the website right now. Once things slow down we should be doing some updates.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 03:00:55 AM
Quote from: The Cleaner on Oct 27, 2007, 02:56:30 AM
One problem there, genius; the egg morphing was cut from the OFFICIAL film, it's not canon, it was the DIRECTOR's take on the movie, which last time I checked, isn't canon either, therefore Colin is not forced to use it, since it is not official continuity, are he? ::) Boy, you really need to do your homework, SiL.
...I'm gonna ignore the last part.
But still, egg morphing was established in 1979. Random New Barfing Technique is entirely superfluous and nowhere near as good an idea. I don't need to see it to know it's not as layered as what the morphing brings to the table.
Why? Because I'm telling you the truth? I wouldn't give a damn if Jesus Christ himself came down from heaven and designed egg morphing; it's still not canon, therefore, they still aren't forced to use it. And since you haven't even WATCHED that scene, I'm not going to take your word for it and think it's crappy just because you don't like the idea.
The egg morphing ability is something that isn't regarded canon because it was featured in a deleted scene, but it does make a lot of sense for a warrior to have this ability to re-establish a queen if the previous queen is killed. I must say I like this concept much better than the "face-rape". lol
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 03:01:11 AM
I don't expect you Predator guys to understand...however, if you look at this from our perspective, how would you feel?
Let's say that AVP:R makes it so that Predators reproduce the same way as this new abomination, and the Predalien derived this new ability because of the Preds. Would you simply accept this? Probably not, even though this is the best explanation for this new ability. We have never seen an alien do this kinda crap before. Not once in 5 movies, so why start now?
This whole concept was totally ill advised.
Sure it's just a movie, but to some of us it's a hobby.
Why start now? I think that point was well covered in my original post. Why just do the same thing that we have seen for 5 movies? Something new was well overdue. Again, nothing has been changed or stepped on. It's new!
hey Colin,
got any ideas what you want to direct next?
After all of this, it would be hilarious to see the fan reaction in a AVP film with different creative talent where the Predator just stops and suddenly vomits up an infant Predator.
"Hey, that's the twist- it was from the Predator life cycle all along!"
Quote from: The Cleaner on Oct 27, 2007, 03:05:29 AM
Why? Because I'm telling you the truth? I wouldn't give a damn if Jesus Christ himself designed egg morphing; it's still not canon, therefore, they aren't forced to use it. And since you haven't even WATCHED that scene, I'm not going to take your word for it and think it's crappy just because you don't like the idea.
Here's another fool that can't stomach and accept differing opinions... :-X
Quote from: The Cleaner on Oct 27, 2007, 03:05:29 AM
And since you haven't even WATCHED that scene, I'm not going to take your word for it and think it's crappy just because you don't like the idea.
I never said it'd be crappy.
I said it wouldn't be anywhere near as good.
It's face-hugging, but with more slime and good.
I think I should post this again:
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 01:04:48 AM
I'll have to convince myself that the Predalien got this trait from the Predators. :-[
"Queens are born, not made."
Holy Crap! That was one Mother of a post and still going.
So let me gets this straight (i hope)
Drones can:
1. Transform humans to eggs (Brett) to impregnate humans (Dallas). A poor Ratio of 1 to 2 in human stock.
2. Perform a single impregnation (Lambert) when necessary for species survival (hypothesis - from Scott's comments could shorten the Alien lifecycle) (if someone can find the dvd quote)
3. Transform themselves into Queen for species survival.
By the way all 3 of the above do occur in different ways in insect species on our planet.
Queens can:
1. Be born a Queen (not sure if the superhugger in Alien 3 is canon, but we know mother-nature provides an insect queen on our planet whenever neccesary, so I don't believe a superhugger is really necessary)
2. Be born a Drone and later transform to Queen when the species survival is at stake.
3. Take longer to birth a.k.a. Ripley and Scar. So longer to reach adulthood is plausable.
4. Has a 3 staged lifecycle, baby, Chet-Queen (I won't say Teenage Queen :) ) Adult Queen.
Before backing-out a sh!t load of eggs as an adult, the Chet-Queen has the ability to Giger-Kiss a few humans to produce a Queen's guard so it can sit down and grow a very very long poop-shoot :)
Well the Alien Encyclopedia crowd will love this :)
Not sure what to think. Will have to see the movie. I don't think it will be a vomit scene, more like a John Holmes scene ;)
I think Giger will like this though, that sick puppy artistic genius :)
Guys, spitting-in-the-face is going to become established canon whether anyone likes it or not. The Queen became established canon, the hybridism became established canon, and so will this. It's not that hard to come up with an explanation for this, really.
Quote from: Invisible Darkness on Oct 27, 2007, 03:02:26 AM
Quote from: Bio Mech Hunter on Oct 27, 2007, 02:56:56 AM
Quote from: Invisible Darkness on Oct 27, 2007, 02:54:47 AM
I really don't see how it is seen as contradicting something that has never been seen on film, or confirmed. Besides, nothing has been changed. This is just another cycle added on. It's not a very efficient way to reproduce, but as long as it gets them to where they need to be for the Queen to fully develope, why is it a problem?
I remember reading many posts from members here that said they would have a problem if it was egg-morphing. It's to slow a process and so on. Now we have something NEWand now there problems with that. How can something new, unexplored, and never seen on film contradict anything. This new idea isn't discrediting the old. It's simply adding on, or evolving and adapting to survive.
I would think that once a queen reaches full maturity, this new idea would no longer be needed. It would once again start laying eggs. Facehuggers are a far more efficient to populate. In a different situation, the Alien may have a different method of reproducing. Aliens adapt well to their environment. Since this is the first time this timeline of the Aliens' life cycle has been explored in film, there are no rules being broken. No cannon being over written. This is establishing something new.
Because it's a concept that isn't needed. Particularly in this case.
It's not a concept. It's in the new film. Without an egg-laying Queen, how is this not needed? If you don't like the idea, that's up to you. There does, however, need to be some way to reproduce. I like the New idea.
Perhaps "concept" isn't the right word to use. Regardless, it is unnecessary because there are already facehuggers on the ship. There's your problem.
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 27, 2007, 03:07:01 AM
After all of this, it would be hilarious to see the fan reaction in a AVP film with different creative talent where the Predator just stops and suddenly vomits up an infant Predator.
"Hey, that's the twist- it was from the Predator life cycle all along!"
Thanks for that! LOL ;D
At least you get where I'm coming from. 8)
Quote from: MattTaz on Oct 27, 2007, 03:08:47 AM
2. Perform a single impregnation (Lambert) when necessary for species survival (hypothesis - from Scott's comments could shorten the Alien lifecycle) (if someone can find the dvd quote)
There are no such comments. Scott said that the Alien's life-cycle was short, like a butterfly, and its violence and apparently inconsistent behaviour was fueled solely by its drive to reproduce before it died. Egg morphing killed the Alien, not raping Lambert.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 27, 2007, 02:56:07 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 02:54:58 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 27, 2007, 02:53:39 AM
Agreed. The best part about these movies is the passion that the fans have for them, even if we all totally disagree.
See? Isn't he great folks?
Just ... please, for the love of God. Don't make AvP 3.
I have this great idea for a Predator Mind killing weapon. He just looks at an Alien and it explodes... sound great huh?
I swear if you do that i will love you forever.
At least make it a deleted scene. Please. For me?
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 03:07:49 AM
Quote from: The Cleaner on Oct 27, 2007, 03:05:29 AM
And since you haven't even WATCHED that scene, I'm not going to take your word for it and think it's crappy just because you don't like the idea.
I never said it'd be crappy.
I said it wouldn't be anywhere near as good.
It's face-hugging, but with more slime and good.
Judging from the majority of your posts in this thread, you sure as hell seem to be implying it, the way you've been arguing against vehemently to Colin. But Ive made my point, so I'll just drop this.
@Gates; I can accept differing opinions, but I can't accept stupid people who claim director's have to stick to something that isn't canon because they like it more.
Quote from: echobbase79 on Oct 27, 2007, 02:12:31 AM
This topic needs a poll.
sorry but this topic doesnt need a poll at all.
I swear, if we were all in a room and not over the internet Colin would've passed out from blowjobs months ago.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 03:12:32 AM
I swear, if we were all in a room and not over the internet Colin would've passed out from blowjobs months ago.
lol
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 03:12:32 AM
I swear, if we were all in a room and not over the internet Colin would've passed out from blowjobs months ago.
LOL Sick, sick, sick. :D
Quote from: Rabbit2100 on Oct 27, 2007, 03:12:24 AM
Quote from: echobbase79 on Oct 27, 2007, 02:12:31 AM
This topic needs a poll.
sorry but this topic doesnt need a poll at all.
If anything needed a poll, this is it! So sorry. ;D
Quote from: MattTaz on Oct 27, 2007, 03:08:47 AM
2. Perform a single impregnation (Lambert) when necessary for species survival (hypothesis - from Scott's comments could shorten the Alien lifecycle) (if someone can find the dvd quote)
Why do some people think it was impregnating Lambert? We don't know what was going on.
Why mess up an awsome life cycle now???? ???
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:47:40 PM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:45:00 PM
You are such a funny person. First you hate how "Aliens" turned them into simple "bugs," but now that you find out that they are complex creatures you want them to be like simple bugs. ::)
And yet I'd never say 'Nope, no Queen! No sir! Egg morphing aall the way!'
What we've got here is a blatant contradiction of what we've seen before, it's as simple as that. Queen born a Queen? Nope, now we have Queen molting. Drones turning people into eggs? Nope, now we've got baby Queens barfing into people. Juvenile Queens not capable of reproducing? Nope, barfing!
You are definitely a purest and I respect that. When I first heard about this I thought for sure they took it in this direction unnecessarily but if you think about it for a minute it sort of fits. Think about the colony on LV426. They brought Newt's dad back and most likely this was the only alien. Is it conceivable that this phase occured then at the colony before the queen settled in her next to lay eggs which also would need drones or warriors to move the eggs as needed. I think it can work but only if this is genuinely a young queen that is moving toward nesting. If not then its stupid.
Purism changes over time.
There's no sign anyway died before they attempted to remove the face-huggers, which implies that there were always multiple face huggers. And if Colin had been paying attention in Alien 3 and Resurrection, he would'a seen Queens are born Queens.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 03:12:32 AM
I swear, if we were all in a room and not over the internet Colin would've passed out from blowjobs months ago.
:D
If we were in a room together, I would be lighting up massive amounts of blunts...at least we would all be getting along better and laughing... :P
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 27, 2007, 02:56:07 AM
I have this great idea for a Predator Mind killing weapon. He just looks at an Alien and it explodes... sound great huh?
You forgot the one about the red Cylon seeker, sweeping from side to side, in the visor. ;)
In all seriousness, based on the kind of footage we've seen of the cinematography, I'd love the brothers to direct a full-scale futuristic '
Warhammer' film. I think they'd be a perfect choice for it. Especially a CGI one, like the introduction for '
Dawn Of War'. I think they'd excel.
They could even put the oral-rape technique back with the Genestealers, just like where it came from. ;)
Quote from: The Cleaner on Oct 27, 2007, 02:56:30 AM
One problem there, genius; the egg morphing was cut from the OFFICIAL film, it's not canon
Then it was reinserted back into the OFFICIAL theatrical re-release. It pretty much is.
If the directors take the view that it's not, then they should have just said that from the start of this debate (if not sooner). It would have prevented a lot of the kind of uproar which has gone up about this.
People wouldn't be pleased about it, but at least we would all have a good sense of being on more or less the same page.
QuoteAnd someone before mentioned how it wasn't hard for the runner alien in A3 to defend the queen, OF COURSE IT WASN'T! You think a bunch UN-ARMED prisoners are going to put up that much of a fight? Hell, most of them were killed trying the lure the damn thing into the furnace. If it had been facing against CMs, it would've gotten it's ass blown off.
Since when does nature plan for firearms?
Besides, like I said, a whole nest of facehuggers would be fine. Even if you're armed, it's going to be amazingly hard to hit something that small and fast, especially if it's got the kind of intelligence to play hide and seek, as '
Aliens' showed them having.
Quote from: Luckygreycat on Oct 27, 2007, 03:15:54 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:47:40 PM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:45:00 PM
You are such a funny person. First you hate how "Aliens" turned them into simple "bugs," but now that you find out that they are complex creatures you want them to be like simple bugs. ::)
And yet I'd never say 'Nope, no Queen! No sir! Egg morphing aall the way!'
What we've got here is a blatant contradiction of what we've seen before, it's as simple as that. Queen born a Queen? Nope, now we have Queen molting. Drones turning people into eggs? Nope, now we've got baby Queens barfing into people. Juvenile Queens not capable of reproducing? Nope, barfing!
It's a good bet a party was sent to investigate the derelict and more impregnated hosts were brought back.
You are definitely a purest and I respect that. When I first heard about this I thought for sure they took it in this direction unnecessarily but if you think about it for a minute it sort of fits. Think about the colony on LV426. They brought Newt's dad back and most likely this was the only alien. Is it conceivable that this phase occured then at the colony before the queen settled in her next to lay eggs which also would need drones or warriors to move the eggs as needed. I think it can work but only if this is genuinely a young queen that is moving toward nesting. If not then its stupid.
It's a good bet a party was sent to investigate the derelict and were brought back as impregnated hosts.
Quote from: Bio Mech Hunter on Oct 27, 2007, 03:09:21 AM
Quote from: Invisible Darkness on Oct 27, 2007, 03:02:26 AM
Quote from: Bio Mech Hunter on Oct 27, 2007, 02:56:56 AM
Quote from: Invisible Darkness on Oct 27, 2007, 02:54:47 AM
I really don't see how it is seen as contradicting something that has never been seen on film, or confirmed. Besides, nothing has been changed. This is just another cycle added on. It's not a very efficient way to reproduce, but as long as it gets them to where they need to be for the Queen to fully develope, why is it a problem?
I remember reading many posts from members here that said they would have a problem if it was egg-morphing. It's to slow a process and so on. Now we have something NEWand now there problems with that. How can something new, unexplored, and never seen on film contradict anything. This new idea isn't discrediting the old. It's simply adding on, or evolving and adapting to survive.
I would think that once a queen reaches full maturity, this new idea would no longer be needed. It would once again start laying eggs. Facehuggers are a far more efficient to populate. In a different situation, the Alien may have a different method of reproducing. Aliens adapt well to their environment. Since this is the first time this timeline of the Aliens' life cycle has been explored in film, there are no rules being broken. No cannon being over written. This is establishing something new.
Because it's a concept that isn't needed. Particularly in this case.
It's not a concept. It's in the new film. Without an egg-laying Queen, how is this not needed? If you don't like the idea, that's up to you. There does, however, need to be some way to reproduce. I like the New idea.
Perhaps "concept" isn't the right word to use. Regardless, it is unnecessary because there are already facehuggers on the ship. There's your problem.
How do we know those 2 facehuggers don't get killed later on? In turn forcing the Predalien to use this new form of reproduction.
Did you see the trailer? They facehug the hunters.
Quote from: Master on Oct 26, 2007, 08:51:17 PM
And the reason for "alien pukeing" is " she need to protect herselve"? I don`t get it and still think that it is just a shity, stupid idea. So queen`s facehugger can implant two embryos just for fun?
I`m so tired of it........
I thought a queen facehugger aka superfacehugger could implant multiple times, not just two
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 03:12:32 AM
I swear, if we were all in a room and not over the internet Colin would've passed out from blowjobs months ago.
If it gets him to make a good film then step on up SiL and bat one for the team!LOL ;)
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 27, 2007, 03:18:40 AM
Quote from: The Cleaner on Oct 27, 2007, 02:56:30 AM
One problem there, genius; the egg morphing was cut from the OFFICIAL film, it's not canon
Then it was reinserted back into the OFFICIAL theatrical re-release. It pretty much is.
If the directors take the view that it's not, then they should have just said that from the start of this debate (if not sooner). It would have prevented a lot of the kind of uproar which has gone up about this.
People wouldn't be pleased about it, but at least we would all have a good sense of being on more or less the same page.
As I recall, they released the Director's Cut version in theaters for the anniversary rather than re-inserting that specific scene.
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 27, 2007, 03:20:05 AM
Did you see the trailer? They facehug the hunters.
I should have added more to that statment. Maybe they are killed after they have chestbursted.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 03:00:55 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 27, 2007, 02:59:05 AM
See, we can come together and make magic....or something. :)
Tell you what. I write, you direct. We'd make billions.
With your writing and ideas, you'd make billions alright, you'd make billions of angry fans ;D Haha, just messin with ya!
This is all very entertaining to read.
Quote from: Bio Mech Hunter on Oct 27, 2007, 03:23:34 AM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 27, 2007, 03:18:40 AM
Quote from: The Cleaner on Oct 27, 2007, 02:56:30 AM
One problem there, genius; the egg morphing was cut from the OFFICIAL film, it's not canon
Then it was reinserted back into the OFFICIAL theatrical re-release. It pretty much is.
If the directors take the view that it's not, then they should have just said that from the start of this debate (if not sooner). It would have prevented a lot of the kind of uproar which has gone up about this.
People wouldn't be pleased about it, but at least we would all have a good sense of being on more or less the same page.
As I recall, they released the Director's Cut version in theaters for the anniversary rather than re-inserting that specific scene.
Exactly.
i doubt that colin is ever going to read my post but i just wanna say one thing..
IS THE PREDALIEN A QUEEN OR NOT? THAT IS ALL I WANT TO KNOW.
Quote from: Its Game Time on Oct 27, 2007, 03:24:59 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 03:00:55 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 27, 2007, 02:59:05 AM
See, we can come together and make magic....or something. :)
Tell you what. I write, you direct. We'd make billions.
With your writing and ideas, you'd make billions alright, you'd make billions of angry fans ;D Haha, just messin with ya!
You know what I'd bet money on he'd make?
Aliens 2.
Quote from: Bio Mech Hunter on Oct 27, 2007, 03:23:34 AM
As I recall, they released the Director's Cut version in theaters for the anniversary rather than re-inserting that specific scene.
If re-releasing a movie with new scenes in it, worldwide for all the world to see, is not canon inducing I don't know what is...
Moderator Message:
I've merged the two threads about the new lifecycle. The one with the poll was starting to blossom into a mirror-image and it seemed wise to mix them before they branched off in too many identical ways.
Quote from: Gates on Oct 27, 2007, 03:28:47 AM
Quote from: Bio Mech Hunter on Oct 27, 2007, 03:23:34 AM
As I recall, they released the Director's Cut version in theaters for the anniversary rather than re-inserting that specific scene.
If re-releasing a movie with new scenes in it worldwide for all the world to see is not canon inducing I don't know what is...
It's still not the ORIGINAL theatrical version, they only released the DC version for the anniversary. That's it. That's like me saying that because they released the DC of
Daredevil just for it's anniversary, it's now canon, which it isn't.
Quote from: Gremlien on Oct 27, 2007, 03:28:20 AM
You know what I'd bet money on he'd make?
Aliens 2.
Actually, my idea is more
Alien 3 meets
Predator :)
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 03:30:39 AM
Quote from: Gremlien on Oct 27, 2007, 03:28:20 AM
You know what I'd bet money on he'd make?
Aliens 2.
Actually, my idea is more Alien 3 meets Predator :)
Good luck with that! ;D
Quote from: Invisible Darkness on Oct 27, 2007, 03:24:22 AM
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 27, 2007, 03:20:05 AM
Did you see the trailer? They facehug the hunters.
I should have added more to that statment. Maybe they are killed after they have chestbursted.
I doubt that's the case, but if it is, I'd much rather Colin & Greg resurrect the egg morphing concept rather than turning the pred alien warrior into a pseudo-queen or using this as an interim feature until it reaches maturity if it's a pred alien queen all along. At which it's growth rate is waaaayyy too slow. Especially considering the rate it's siblings developed in the first film. If it is a queen, it'd have enough sense to keep itself out of danger until a hive's established considering it's importance as a queen.
Quote from: Its Game Time on Oct 27, 2007, 03:31:45 AM
Good luck with that! ;D
Damned straight.
*slaps on helmet*
Quote from: Invisible Darkness on Oct 27, 2007, 03:24:22 AM
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 27, 2007, 03:20:05 AM
Did you see the trailer? They facehug the hunters.
I should have added more to that statment. Maybe they are killed after they have chestbursted.
Facehuggers die once they implant an embryo, so of course they die.
So, I see the negativity has died down a fair bit just as it usually does following a visit from Colin.
And, as usual, his soothing words have calmed the savage beasts, but provided little actual reason for the reassurance.
We were all in a tizzy, "They PredAlien reproduces by puking into our mouth!" we cried! Many thought it was a crappy idea, and said so. "No, not in my mouth!"
Colin says, "Don't worry, it's cool. We made up a new stage to the life cycle." (Even though they strongly implied in Fango that they hadn't.) "We totally surprised you. This horrible idea is good. It's not a horrible idea. You can go about your business. Move along."
And this does the trick? All he did was confirm that this crap is real. Truly, horribly real.
I think my biggest problem with the concept is the idea that a "young Queen" is somehow defenseless, and needs to make puke babies before nesting. An Alien is crazy-deadly, a Queen moreso...so why would a young Queen be some kind of defenseless 'thing' that can't look after itself long enough to start makin' eggs?
It doesn't feel like a natural stage, either. If you can multiply by blasting embryos straight into victims, why would your next stage complicate the process by adding two extra stages?
Yeah, they reintroduced it for the Director's Cut. It was still a general theatrical release and it's one which happened to reintroduce a lot of previously missing stuff.
Can't say I disagree, Uncanny. But at this rate, I'm just coming to terms with the fans who are going to think it's all cool regardless. It'll be like this for a long while.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 27, 2007, 03:33:28 AM
So, I see the negativity has died down a fair bit just as it usually does following a visit from Colin.
And, as usual, his soothing words have calmed the savage beasts, but provided little actual reason for the reassurance.
We were all in a tizzy, "They PredAlien reproduces by puking into our mouth!" we cried! Many thought it was a crappy idea, and said so. "No, not in my mouth!"
Colin says, "Don't worry, it's cool. We made up a new stage to the life cycle." (Even though they strongly implied in Fango that they hadn't.) "We totally surprised you. This horrible idea is good. It's not a horrible idea. You can go about your business. Move along."
And this does the trick? All he did was confirm that this crap is real. Truly, horribly real.
I think my biggest problem with the concept is the idea that a "young Queen" is somehow defenseless, and needs to make puke babies before nesting. An Alien is crazy-deadly, a Queen moreso...so why would a young Queen be some kind of defenseless 'thing' that can't look after itself long enough to start makin' eggs?
It doesn't feel like a natural stage, either. If you can multiply by blasting embryos straight into victims, why would your next stage complicate the process by adding two extra stages?
Good post Uncanny. I really don't know what to say or think about the new lifecycle.
Quote from: echobbase79 on Oct 27, 2007, 03:36:52 AM
Good post Uncanny. I really don't know what to say or think about the new lifecycle.
That's because it's a bad idea.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 27, 2007, 03:33:28 AM
So, I see the negativity has died down a fair bit just as it usually does following a visit from Colin.
And, as usual, his soothing words have calmed the savage beasts, but provided little actual reason for the reassurance.
We were all in a tizzy, "They PredAlien reproduces by puking into our mouth!" we cried! Many thought it was a crappy idea, and said so. "No, not in my mouth!"
Colin says, "Don't worry, it's cool. We made up a new stage to the life cycle." (Even though they strongly implied in Fango that they hadn't.) "We totally surprised you. This horrible idea is good. It's not a horrible idea. You can go about your business. Move along."
And this does the trick? All he did was confirm that this crap is real. Truly, horribly real.
I think my biggest problem with the concept is the idea that a "young Queen" is somehow defenseless, and needs to make puke babies before nesting. An Alien is crazy-deadly, a Queen moreso...so why would a young Queen be some kind of defenseless 'thing' that can't look after itself long enough to start makin' eggs?
It doesn't feel like a natural stage, either. If you can multiply by blasting embryos straight into victims, why would your next stage complicate the process by adding two extra stages?
I have to agree, but I'm also concerned about the portrayal of the human "birthed" warriors. Are they going to be portrayed as cunning, powerful, stealthy creatures like in the films? Or as mindless, weak, insect-like cannon fodder who's only real strength is in great numbers like in the comics and games? Especially against only one or a few preds.
Is it so hard to imagine that maybe the Queen loses this ability once it grows up a bit more?
Quote from: echobbase79 on Oct 27, 2007, 03:36:52 AM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 27, 2007, 03:33:28 AM
So, I see the negativity has died down a fair bit just as it usually does following a visit from Colin.
And, as usual, his soothing words have calmed the savage beasts, but provided little actual reason for the reassurance.
We were all in a tizzy, "They PredAlien reproduces by puking into our mouth!" we cried! Many thought it was a crappy idea, and said so. "No, not in my mouth!"
Colin says, "Don't worry, it's cool. We made up a new stage to the life cycle." (Even though they strongly implied in Fango that they hadn't.) "We totally surprised you. This horrible idea is good. It's not a horrible idea. You can go about your business. Move along."
And this does the trick? All he did was confirm that this crap is real. Truly, horribly real.
I think my biggest problem with the concept is the idea that a "young Queen" is somehow defenseless, and needs to make puke babies before nesting. An Alien is crazy-deadly, a Queen moreso...so why would a young Queen be some kind of defenseless 'thing' that can't look after itself long enough to start makin' eggs?
It doesn't feel like a natural stage, either. If you can multiply by blasting embryos straight into victims, why would your next stage complicate the process by adding two extra stages?
Good post Uncanny. I really don't know what to say or think about the new lifecycle.
My stance aswell. Though I'd rather wait and see what it looks like on-screen before I judge it.
Quote from: Gremlien on Oct 27, 2007, 03:40:14 AM
Is it so hard to imagine that maybe the Queen loses this ability once it grows up a bit more?
Not at all. The issue is with why it would even need such a function in the first place.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 27, 2007, 03:33:28 AM
So, I see the negativity has died down a fair bit just as it usually does following a visit from Colin.
And, as usual, his soothing words have calmed the savage beasts, but provided little actual reason for the reassurance.
Not all of us have changed our minds...I, for one, am just tired of arguing at this stage...so here I am high as fu<k and trying to be friendly for a change... ;D
But please continue the good fight Antman...you'll soon realize you won't change anyone's mind on it... ;)
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 09:08:11 PM
Egg morphing hasn't been seen used since 1979. How is that just using the same old stuff over and over?
With all due respect to you I always thought that the egg morphing thing was a stupid idea. I'm glad it was cut out of Alien and I hope it never is introduced. On the flipside I am beginning to agree with you that this vomiting thing is just too far removed from the original cycle. I like the superfacehugger more. I think that is a much more logical method of protection for the queen considering that the superfacehugger can create several aliens. I think that would have been a better way to do this than the vomiting thing. There should have been a regular queen in this movie and the Predalien should have been just a regular Predalien.
If it aint broke.....DON'T FIX IT! >:(
Quote from: Luckygreycat on Oct 27, 2007, 03:42:31 AM
There should have been a regular queen in this movie and the Predalien should have been just a regular Predalien.
Exactly.
Quote from: The Cleaner on Oct 27, 2007, 03:40:53 AM
Quote from: echobbase79 on Oct 27, 2007, 03:36:52 AM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 27, 2007, 03:33:28 AM
So, I see the negativity has died down a fair bit just as it usually does following a visit from Colin.
And, as usual, his soothing words have calmed the savage beasts, but provided little actual reason for the reassurance.
We were all in a tizzy, "They PredAlien reproduces by puking into our mouth!" we cried! Many thought it was a crappy idea, and said so. "No, not in my mouth!"
Colin says, "Don't worry, it's cool. We made up a new stage to the life cycle." (Even though they strongly implied in Fango that they hadn't.) "We totally surprised you. This horrible idea is good. It's not a horrible idea. You can go about your business. Move along."
And this does the trick? All he did was confirm that this crap is real. Truly, horribly real.
I think my biggest problem with the concept is the idea that a "young Queen" is somehow defenseless, and needs to make puke babies before nesting. An Alien is crazy-deadly, a Queen moreso...so why would a young Queen be some kind of defenseless 'thing' that can't look after itself long enough to start makin' eggs?
It doesn't feel like a natural stage, either. If you can multiply by blasting embryos straight into victims, why would your next stage complicate the process by adding two extra stages?
Good post Uncanny. I really don't know what to say or think about the new lifecycle.
My stance aswell. Though I'd rather wait and see what it looks like on-screen before I judge it.
I'm sure it'll look awesome, but it still doesn't fit.
Quote from: Bio Mech Hunter on Oct 27, 2007, 03:43:02 AM
Quote from: The Cleaner on Oct 27, 2007, 03:40:53 AM
Quote from: echobbase79 on Oct 27, 2007, 03:36:52 AM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 27, 2007, 03:33:28 AM
So, I see the negativity has died down a fair bit just as it usually does following a visit from Colin.
And, as usual, his soothing words have calmed the savage beasts, but provided little actual reason for the reassurance.
We were all in a tizzy, "They PredAlien reproduces by puking into our mouth!" we cried! Many thought it was a crappy idea, and said so. "No, not in my mouth!"
Colin says, "Don't worry, it's cool. We made up a new stage to the life cycle." (Even though they strongly implied in Fango that they hadn't.) "We totally surprised you. This horrible idea is good. It's not a horrible idea. You can go about your business. Move along."
And this does the trick? All he did was confirm that this crap is real. Truly, horribly real.
I think my biggest problem with the concept is the idea that a "young Queen" is somehow defenseless, and needs to make puke babies before nesting. An Alien is crazy-deadly, a Queen moreso...so why would a young Queen be some kind of defenseless 'thing' that can't look after itself long enough to start makin' eggs?
It doesn't feel like a natural stage, either. If you can multiply by blasting embryos straight into victims, why would your next stage complicate the process by adding two extra stages?
Good post Uncanny. I really don't know what to say or think about the new lifecycle.
My stance aswell. Though I'd rather wait and see what it looks like on-screen before I judge it.
I'm sure it'll look awesome, but it still doesn't fit.
Maybe. For now, however, I will wait to judge it when I see it.
Quote from: The Cleaner on Oct 27, 2007, 03:44:19 AM
Quote from: Bio Mech Hunter on Oct 27, 2007, 03:43:02 AM
Quote from: The Cleaner on Oct 27, 2007, 03:40:53 AM
Quote from: echobbase79 on Oct 27, 2007, 03:36:52 AM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 27, 2007, 03:33:28 AM
So, I see the negativity has died down a fair bit just as it usually does following a visit from Colin.
And, as usual, his soothing words have calmed the savage beasts, but provided little actual reason for the reassurance.
We were all in a tizzy, "They PredAlien reproduces by puking into our mouth!" we cried! Many thought it was a crappy idea, and said so. "No, not in my mouth!"
Colin says, "Don't worry, it's cool. We made up a new stage to the life cycle." (Even though they strongly implied in Fango that they hadn't.) "We totally surprised you. This horrible idea is good. It's not a horrible idea. You can go about your business. Move along."
And this does the trick? All he did was confirm that this crap is real. Truly, horribly real.
I think my biggest problem with the concept is the idea that a "young Queen" is somehow defenseless, and needs to make puke babies before nesting. An Alien is crazy-deadly, a Queen moreso...so why would a young Queen be some kind of defenseless 'thing' that can't look after itself long enough to start makin' eggs?
It doesn't feel like a natural stage, either. If you can multiply by blasting embryos straight into victims, why would your next stage complicate the process by adding two extra stages?
Good post Uncanny. I really don't know what to say or think about the new lifecycle.
My stance aswell. Though I'd rather wait and see what it looks like on-screen before I judge it.
I'm sure it'll look awesome, but it still doesn't fit.
Maybe. For now, however, I will wait to judge it when I see it.
Agreed. ;)
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 27, 2007, 03:41:39 AM
Quote from: Gremlien on Oct 27, 2007, 03:40:14 AM
Is it so hard to imagine that maybe the Queen loses this ability once it grows up a bit more?
Not at all. The issue is with why it would even need such a function in the first place.
So, you're saying it makes
more sense for a young, vulnerable queen to build a hive herself and leave herself unguarded until she lays eggs, rather than create several smaller Aliens to guard her and build the hive around her as she ages and starts to lay eggs?
you know,their was a time when chestbursters themselves were considered a stupid idea.I say,give it a chance and stop whining for now.
There's still hope.
Please AVP gods...please let this whole vomiting thing be translate into a deleted scene.
:'(
Quote from: Gremlien on Oct 27, 2007, 03:45:08 AM
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 27, 2007, 03:41:39 AM
Quote from: Gremlien on Oct 27, 2007, 03:40:14 AM
Is it so hard to imagine that maybe the Queen loses this ability once it grows up a bit more?
Not at all. The issue is with why it would even need such a function in the first place.
So, you're saying it makes more sense for a young, vulnerable queen to build a hive herself and leave herself unguarded until she lays eggs, rather than create several smaller Aliens to guard her and build the hive around her as she ages and starts to lay eggs?
I think your missing the point. There are better alternatives to this idea if this situation did arise.
Quote from: Gates on Oct 27, 2007, 03:41:58 AM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 27, 2007, 03:33:28 AM
So, I see the negativity has died down a fair bit just as it usually does following a visit from Colin.
And, as usual, his soothing words have calmed the savage beasts, but provided little actual reason for the reassurance.
Not all of us have changed our minds...I, for one, am just tired of arguing at this stage...so here I am high as fu<k and trying to be friendly for a change... ;D
But please continue the good fight Antman...you'll soon realize you won't change anyone's mind on it... ;)
OMG! I Feel You Bro.! ;)
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 27, 2007, 03:33:28 AM
So, I see the negativity has died down a fair bit just as it usually does following a visit from Colin.
And, as usual, his soothing words have calmed the savage beasts, but provided little actual reason for the reassurance.
We were all in a tizzy, "They PredAlien reproduces by puking into our mouth!" we cried! Many thought it was a crappy idea, and said so. "No, not in my mouth!"
Colin says, "Don't worry, it's cool. We made up a new stage to the life cycle." (Even though they strongly implied in Fango that they hadn't.) "We totally surprised you. This horrible idea is good. It's not a horrible idea. You can go about your business. Move along."
And this does the trick? All he did was confirm that this crap is real. Truly, horribly real.
I think my biggest problem with the concept is the idea that a "young Queen" is somehow defenseless, and needs to make puke babies before nesting. An Alien is crazy-deadly, a Queen moreso...so why would a young Queen be some kind of defenseless 'thing' that can't look after itself long enough to start makin' eggs?
It doesn't feel like a natural stage, either. If you can multiply by blasting embryos straight into victims, why would your next stage complicate the process by adding two extra stages?
So what do you want us to do? Cry more? The movies already finished filming. You can bitch now and wait to watch the movie then bitch some more... or you can come on here and bitch everyday until the movie comes out for more attention if you're inclined to do so. Most people choose the former.
Quote from: Bio Mech Hunter on Oct 27, 2007, 03:47:00 AM
Quote from: Gremlien on Oct 27, 2007, 03:45:08 AM
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 27, 2007, 03:41:39 AM
Quote from: Gremlien on Oct 27, 2007, 03:40:14 AM
Is it so hard to imagine that maybe the Queen loses this ability once it grows up a bit more?
Not at all. The issue is with why it would even need such a function in the first place.
So, you're saying it makes more sense for a young, vulnerable queen to build a hive herself and leave herself unguarded until she lays eggs, rather than create several smaller Aliens to guard her and build the hive around her as she ages and starts to lay eggs?
I think your missing the point. There are better alternatives to this idea if this situation did arise.
But this is the one that is being used, and there's nothing we can do about it. Every idea has at least ten better ideas that could be in it's place, whether that idea is good or bad. The way I see it, she'd need to create protection and fast. Not to mention, someone has to build the hive while she lays those eggs.
Quote from: wolfboy on Oct 27, 2007, 03:49:58 AM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 27, 2007, 03:33:28 AM
So, I see the negativity has died down a fair bit just as it usually does following a visit from Colin.
And, as usual, his soothing words have calmed the savage beasts, but provided little actual reason for the reassurance.
We were all in a tizzy, "They PredAlien reproduces by puking into our mouth!" we cried! Many thought it was a crappy idea, and said so. "No, not in my mouth!"
Colin says, "Don't worry, it's cool. We made up a new stage to the life cycle." (Even though they strongly implied in Fango that they hadn't.) "We totally surprised you. This horrible idea is good. It's not a horrible idea. You can go about your business. Move along."
And this does the trick? All he did was confirm that this crap is real. Truly, horribly real.
I think my biggest problem with the concept is the idea that a "young Queen" is somehow defenseless, and needs to make puke babies before nesting. An Alien is crazy-deadly, a Queen moreso...so why would a young Queen be some kind of defenseless 'thing' that can't look after itself long enough to start makin' eggs?
It doesn't feel like a natural stage, either. If you can multiply by blasting embryos straight into victims, why would your next stage complicate the process by adding two extra stages?
So what do you want us to do? Cry more? The movies already finished filming. You can bitch now and wait to watch the movie then bitch some more... or you can come on here and bitch everyday until the movie comes out for more attention if you're inclined to do so. Most people choose the former.
To me Uncanny brought up some interesting points. Especially, about the Fangoria article.
It didn't come off as bitching either.
Quote from: Gremlien on Oct 27, 2007, 03:45:08 AMa young, vulnerable queen
If she's an Alien and she's already grown as large as the PredAlien seems to be, there'd be no discernable reason to think of her as vulnerable. If she behaved like how we've seen the creature behave, it'd be unlikely that she'd find herself seriously in danger what with the Alien's natural abilities. If she's stupid enough to just put herself out in the well-lit open with reckless abandon, she'd probably deserve a few rounds to the head on the point of general stupidity.
First the fugly predalien design and now this? This disgusting creature actually vomits in peoples mouths? What is up with this sh*t? I bet it's gonna be as nasty as the scenes from "The Fly".
Quote from: badass_badger on Oct 27, 2007, 03:56:10 AM
First the fugly predalien design and now this? This disgusting creature actually vomits in peoples mouths? What is up with this sh*t? I bet it's gonna be as nasty as the scenes from "The Fly".
If its that nasty then I'll be down with it. ;D
I love the Fly remake so horrific and tragic.
OK, this is from the Theatrical Version commentary on the Directors Cut DVD. Sometimes Ridley Scott is talking with Sigourney Weaver and other times on his own
"We didn't know how she (lambert) died. The implication was that there was kind of a sexuality to this adrogenous male female (alien) who could give birth itself but could also impregnate......there are insects like that so we based that on good old mother nature and um was that some dreadful ending, some terrible invasion of her (lambert's) body, a rape, and therefore would there be a version of the Cartwright (lambert) character? There would certainly, whatever happens, be more humanoid aliens now on the craft and thats what she (ripley) now has to destroy"
It was good in the fly, but it wouldn't be so good for aliens. I don't like the idea from the original aliens of how people could be turned into eggs. The "hive" idea was more original and horrifying. This new idea will probably look like bukkake, only in AvP form...
Quote from: MattTaz on Oct 27, 2007, 03:59:22 AM
OK, this is from the Theatrical Version commentary on the Directors Cut DVD. Sometimes Ridley Scott is talking with Sigourney Weaver and other times on his own
"We didn't know how she (lambert) died. The implication was that there was kind of a sexuality to this adrogenous male female (alien) who could give birth itself but could also impregnate......there are insects like that so we based that on good old mother nature and um was that some dreadful ending, some terrible invasion of her (lambert's) body, a rape, and therefore would there be a version of the Cartwright (lambert) character? There would certainly, whatever happens, be more humanoid aliens now on the craft and thats what she (ripley) now has to destroy"
Why didn't Ridley direct Aliens? He had some great ideas its seems for the creature.
I don't know about you, but I'd be just as scared of being stuck in a hive as I would be with the knowledge that I was going to turn into an egg for an Alien species.
Quote from: Gremlien on Oct 27, 2007, 03:51:08 AM
Quote from: Bio Mech Hunter on Oct 27, 2007, 03:47:00 AM
Quote from: Gremlien on Oct 27, 2007, 03:45:08 AM
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 27, 2007, 03:41:39 AM
Quote from: Gremlien on Oct 27, 2007, 03:40:14 AM
Is it so hard to imagine that maybe the Queen loses this ability once it grows up a bit more?
Not at all. The issue is with why it would even need such a function in the first place.
So, you're saying it makes more sense for a young, vulnerable queen to build a hive herself and leave herself unguarded until she lays eggs, rather than create several smaller Aliens to guard her and build the hive around her as she ages and starts to lay eggs?
I think your missing the point. There are better alternatives to this idea if this situation did arise.
But this is the one that is being used, and there's nothing we can do about it. Every idea has at least ten better ideas that could be in it's place, whether that idea is good or bad. The way I see it, she'd need to create protection and fast. Not to mention, someone has to build the hive while she lays those eggs.
Yes, and it's unfortunate, but it's obviously a bad idea considering the alternatives. Same goes for your second comment. In any case, I really doubt a young queen can be considered "vulnerable".
Quote from: MattTaz on Oct 27, 2007, 03:59:22 AM
OK, this is from the Theatrical Version commentary on the Directors Cut DVD. Sometimes Ridley Scott is talking with Sigourney Weaver and other times on his own
"We didn't know how she (lambert) died. The implication was that there was kind of a sexuality to this adrogenous male female (alien) who could give birth itself but could also impregnate......there are insects like that so we based that on good old mother nature and um was that some dreadful ending, some terrible invasion of her (lambert's) body, a rape, and therefore would there be a version of the Cartwright (lambert) character? There would certainly, whatever happens, be more humanoid aliens now on the craft and thats what she (ripley) now has to destroy"
Notice the word IMPLICATION. That was the intention in '79. Once Aliens came along, that means nothing. Also, it's kind of stupid to say she has to destroy the ship because there could be more Aliens. How would she even know that? The plan from the beginning was to blow up the ship, so that plan had nothing to do with a possible impregnation of Lambert. Kind of a dumb thing for Ridley to say.
Quote from: badass_badger on Oct 27, 2007, 04:00:24 AM
It was good in the fly, but it wouldn't be so good for aliens. I don't like the idea from the original aliens of how people could be turned into eggs. The "hive" idea was more original and horrifying. This new idea will probably look like bukkake, only in AvP form...
Hmmm... I'd have to say the "hive" idea was actually less original.
Of course, we all know what kind of a pervert H.R. Giger is. Yet he's so brilliant. ;D
Quote from: Bio Mech Hunter on Oct 27, 2007, 04:05:59 AM
Quote from: badass_badger on Oct 27, 2007, 04:00:24 AM
It was good in the fly, but it wouldn't be so good for aliens. I don't like the idea from the original aliens of how people could be turned into eggs. The "hive" idea was more original and horrifying. This new idea will probably look like bukkake, only in AvP form...
Hmmm... I'd have to say the "hive" idea was actually less original.
Of course, we all know what kind of a pervert H.R. Giger is. Yet he's so brilliant. ;D
Giger has furniture made from human bones. Seriously!
But the guy cracks me up on the Alien 3 dvd extras when he seems disturbed of a alien tongue biting someone's head.
Quote from: echobbase79 on Oct 27, 2007, 04:08:09 AM
Quote from: Bio Mech Hunter on Oct 27, 2007, 04:05:59 AM
Quote from: badass_badger on Oct 27, 2007, 04:00:24 AM
It was good in the fly, but it wouldn't be so good for aliens. I don't like the idea from the original aliens of how people could be turned into eggs. The "hive" idea was more original and horrifying. This new idea will probably look like bukkake, only in AvP form...
Hmmm... I'd have to say the "hive" idea was actually less original.
Of course, we all know what kind of a pervert H.R. Giger is. Yet he's so brilliant. ;D
Giger has furniture made from human bones. Seriously!
You know, I vaguely remember hearing something about that. lol Sick. :D
Bukkake in AVPR...heh, it's sort of sad that that's how I imagine it to be as well.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 26, 2007, 10:15:02 PM
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 26, 2007, 10:09:57 PM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 26, 2007, 10:08:32 PM
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 10:04:11 PM
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 26, 2007, 10:02:26 PM
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:58:24 PM
QuoteWhat's so difficult to accept that the Alien didn't use this method of reproduction on Lambert?
Whats so difficult to accept that it maybe did?
Whats your problem.?
Yep, you make a lot of sense. Its just not necessary. But then how would the aliens multiply in this movie. There would have to be a regular queen.
Because when they made Alien, the barfing lifecycle didn't exist. How does seeing a tail crawl slowly to the back of Lambert= barfed on?
Maybe it did, the only thing that didnt exist at the time was the queen.
So, did aliens broke continuity just for inventing something new?
I knew it was only a matter of time before someone mentioned the queen and how that it was something new and never intended before "Aliens". But there is a clear difference, it makes sense. If you've got eggs, it is logical that an alien species which has some behavioral traits similar to insects, would have one that lays the eggs.
So its not just a matter of not seeing something before. If it makes sense in the lifecycle and doesn't overcomplicate things. But the "vomiting embyros" is just f**ked up and not necessary. How exactly does this work anyway, are we supposed to believe that the queen has chestburster embryos in its body that it can just spit up?
Thanks for elaborating. Cuz i grow weary. Same old stuff... i probably, with an essay, refuted something 99% similar to this for another franchise on some other board ::)
Are you seriously going to equate the two as being equivalently absurd? You see no degrees of seperation between the idea of an alien queen and an alien puking down someone's throat, which by the way is far more unnecessary. The queen served a purpose of something that HAD to be explained. Where the eggs came from. The puking is just superflous.
Welll It´s my first post and I don´t know if someone already said this but here I go:
The young predalien queen does regurgitate the embryos, but the quantity is restricted (just as a facehuger can impregnate a person with only one chestburster and in the case of a superfacehuger, two chestbursters), and by restricted I mean 3 or 4 embryos wich takes me to that really curious scene in one of the trailers where we see 3 or 4 chestbursters coming out of the same host (Maybe this is Chet doing). And after she has depleted these 3 or 4 embryos that would grow to become her personal bodyguards Chet would loose the ability and she´ll stick to the good old fashioned alien way of laying eggs... but of course after she had molted into a full grown queen...
There you go, that´s my little contribution.
Ducks don't need Queen Ducks to lay eggs...
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 27, 2007, 04:10:14 AM
Bukkake in AVPR...heh, it's sort of sad that that's how I imagine it to be as well.
:D
Bukkake is grrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeat...I recommend GGG, GermanGooGirls...it's fu<king hysterical... ;D
GermanGooGirls. Sounds promising. ;D
I'm not in favor of the idea because to me it would seem to beg the question: Why not just keep hocking loogies instead of starting to lay eggs? A roaming queen infecting people at will seems infinately more efficient than finding a cave to web yourself up in and then waiting for your slaves to bring more host back to you. Especially if I read colin right earlier in the thread. You wouldn't need hives if every alien could just molt into a queen.
Unless the brothers have instituted a penalty on the predqueen for using this method.
And in theory, it does sound somewhat tacky.
Quote from: Luckygreycat on Oct 27, 2007, 03:42:31 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 09:08:11 PM
Egg morphing hasn't been seen used since 1979. How is that just using the same old stuff over and over?
With all due respect to you I always thought that the egg morphing thing was a stupid idea. I'm glad it was cut out of Alien and I hope it never is introduced. On the flipside I am beginning to agree with you that this vomiting thing is just too far removed from the original cycle. I like the superfacehugger more. I think that is a much more logical method of protection for the queen considering that the superfacehugger can create several aliens. I think that would have been a better way to do this than the vomiting thing. There should have been a regular queen in this movie and the Predalien should have been just a regular Predalien.
But there is no super-facehugger, only regular facehuggers.
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 03:46:44 AM
There's still hope.
Please AVP gods...please let this whole vomiting thing be translate into a deleted scene.
:'(
Yes, Amen
The ONLY logical explanation for this is that the Predalien got this reproduction method from the Predators. We have already seen the alien life-cycle, but nothing from the Preds..........so......that settles it. Predators reproduce by kissing each other/ Predalien picks up same trait.
That explains everything.
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 04:47:28 AM
The ONLY logical explanation for this is that the Predalien got this reproduction method from the Predators.
Exactly! Just like the previous Aliens took on a human reproductive cycle!! Oh, wait... ???
I love reading through these posts.
LOL TEH MOVEE IS GOING TO BE TEH SUKK.....BAWWWWWWWWWWW I HAT U DIRECTORZ
*reads through previous comments* :o Damn... I'm glad I'm a pred fan; that is one arguement I'm not getting involved in.
I find nothing wrong with this reproduction method. New + Different doesn't always translate into bad. I'm almost starting to dig it actually.
Quote from: CELTICPRED on Oct 27, 2007, 04:56:19 AM
I love reading through these posts.
LOL TEH MOVEE IS GOING TO BE TEH SUKK.....BAWWWWWWWWWWW I HAT U DIRECTORZ
I'm glad Colin himself can differentiate more happening here than just that. :)
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 27, 2007, 04:51:28 AM
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 04:47:28 AM
The ONLY logical explanation for this is that the Predalien got this reproduction method from the Predators.
Exactly! Just like the previous Aliens took on a human reproductive cycle!! Oh, wait... ???
Well....they did in Resurrection. ;)
IMO aliens "steal" their hosts best traits in order to adapt and become superior to them.
In this case, the Predalien "stole" too much of the Predator's traits because its genes/DNA where defective. (Due to Predators tampering with the Queen in AVP)
This would explain the dreads and the musculature on the Predalien. It's another version of what happened in Alien Resurrection. The
Newborn was the result of humans tampering, and the
Predalien is the result of Predators tampering with them.
Those two "genetically-challenged" turds go hand in hand.
The tampered Queen theory is a fan theory to begin with from AVP that's never been confirmed, so it's a further stretch to apply it here.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 09:33:07 PM
Queens are born Queens. We know this. They clearly look like Queens, with multiple limbs and a crown.
We also know that if an Alien can molt into a Queen, egg morphing, and Queens being born Queens, is entirely redundant.
I gave it some thought, and came up with that it's a genetic freak of nature and in no way indicative of what a normal Alien could do under normal circumstances. In a long enough time frame misshaps are going to happens, and that's what the PredAlien is; an abnormality, possibly caused by whatever steroids the Preds used the speed up the life cycle in AvP (yes, I'm accepting that bullshit for the sake of this argument) messing up how an Alien interacts with Pred biology and creating a hermaphroditic freak of nature with a mutated reproductive method.
It's not a Queen, or a drone, but a mix of both which can utilise a hybrid version of the available reproductive methods of both - Egg morphing and egg laying. If it molts throughout the movie, that's part of the f**k up.
There. Problem solved.
if you are "underage" skip the next partyou idiot... you are born a "MAN" but you dont get to -f**k- until you are all fully grown... this is something similar... but more extraterrestial. it makes sense... and might look cool on screen if they went more like into hentai to this shot o more humanly into oral sex porno hardcorte stuff... also remmember the aliens where supposed to be "dick-heads"
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 27, 2007, 05:12:20 AM
The tampered Queen theory is a fan theory to begin with from AVP that's never been confirmed, so it's a further stretch to apply it here.
I know, I know...... but this sure is easier to swallow than simply accepting this new life-cycle crap.
I'm taking all this with a grain of salt. Will see what will happen in the movie where this is concerned and wait to see if its effective/works or not.
Really if you think about it, getting facehuggered is one thing, it knocks you out as soon as it gets a good grip on you, then you wake up with a bit of time to see whats happened before you 'give birth'. In this case your gonna be wide awake for the whole ordeal (this is guessing of course)... that has gotta be nasty as all hell. Also the hive would still work if this is gonna be the case. Stop the host from hurt/killing themself by cocconing them and also makes sure the burster is born in a safe environment for its growth.
I cannot say whether it is good or bad until I have seen the film, but in all honesty, I am interested in seeing how this new addition to the reproductive cycle works out.
The Twin Cs of Canon and Continuity have always been something of a stale joke anyway, and among the books, movies, video games, etc, there has been plenty variation on this whole 'queen' business already, so bring it on.
Quote from: ArielAleXCo on Oct 27, 2007, 05:13:21 AM
you idiot... you are born a "MAN" but you dont get to -f**k- until you are all fully grown... this is something similar... but more extraterrestial.
Oh, I get it. You're saying that before a boy becomes a man, he pukes his semen right down a chick's throat. Best metaphor ever!
Quote from: ArielAleXCo on Oct 27, 2007, 05:13:21 AMyou idiot... you are born a "MAN" but you dont get to -f**k- until you are all fully grown... this is something similar... but more extraterrestial. it makes sense...
It still doesn't make sense, as if the Queen had such a cycle the need to produce eggs would be non-existent. And the youngest mother ever was 5, so sexual maturity and the correlation to sex and/or insemination isn't so easily defined.
Quoteand might look cool on screen if they went more like into hentai to this shot o more humanly into oral sex porno hardcorte stuff... also remmember the aliens where supposed to be "dick-heads"
No. Just...no. I've had the unfortunate luck to see some tentacle hentai, and it is nothing but disgusting crap. The Alien should have sadistic reasonings, even kill in a way that could be called "rough sex"...but there are limits to where it would just become laughable.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:36:26 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:32:46 PM
Quote from: Dragonblaster on Oct 26, 2007, 08:29:24 PM
Did you even read what I wrote ? ???
Yees, and if it doesn't lead to egg morphing it's a continuity error. We don't know what happened to Lambert, but we have absolutely no reason to assume it was this.
We've never seen what the phase of reproduction was between a young queen and a fully aged egg laying queen. Continuity has not only been maintained, but expanded upon.
Well, please don't let these kids opinions be the only ones you read about this. There are plenty of us "old schoolers" who really do like everything you guys have come up with for this movie. This forum really is jus alot of really immature people ranting on and on about things they don't even really know that much about.
If you get a chance, please come by The Hive. We'd love to have an "adult" conversation about the movie.
http://www.thehiveforum.net/forum/index.php
It's kind of funny how you both bash us and promote another forum at the same time. :D
I find your post ironic in that most of the 'kids' are the ones defending the changes, and the adults are the ones sitting down and laying out why it doesn't work.
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 27, 2007, 05:32:10 AM
It's kind of funny how you both bash us and promote another forum at the same time. :D
Yeah as if saying f**k your forum, ours is better isn't immature. ::)
The whole Alien franchise is turning into Tremors.
When do we get a direct-to-Sci-Fi-Channel movie?
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 05:34:07 AM
I find your post ironic in that most of the 'kids' are the ones defending the changes, and the adults are the ones sitting down and laying out why it doesn't work.
That's the thing the 13-14 yr olds aren't smart enough to know why certain things don't make sense.
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Oct 27, 2007, 05:35:35 AM
The whole Alien franchise is turning into Tremors.
When do we get a direct-to-Sci-Fi-Channel movie?
sadly that is a good analogy for this. The first one was normal, then the second one had one with legs, a little harder to take seriously, then you get the "assblasters" by the third. lol
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 27, 2007, 05:25:28 AM
Quote from: ArielAleXCo on Oct 27, 2007, 05:13:21 AM
you idiot... you are born a "MAN" but you dont get to -f**k- until you are all fully grown... this is something similar... but more extraterrestial.
Oh, I get it. You're saying that before a boy becomes a man, he pukes his semen right down a chick's throat. Best metaphor ever!
LMFAO!!!
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 27, 2007, 05:38:04 AM
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Oct 27, 2007, 05:35:35 AM
The whole Alien franchise is turning into Tremors.
When do we get a direct-to-Sci-Fi-Channel movie?
sadly that is a good analogy for this. The first one was normal, then the second one had one with legs, a little harder to take seriously, then you get the "assblasters" by the third. lol
While Tremors was not meant to really be taken seriously I still thought that the creature design was top notch. Anyway, they kept messing with the life cycle of the creatures in that franchise as well until it made no sense at all. Granted, the fact that the sequels captured none of the original's fun didn't help either.
Sound familiar?
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Oct 27, 2007, 05:42:50 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 27, 2007, 05:38:04 AM
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Oct 27, 2007, 05:35:35 AM
The whole Alien franchise is turning into Tremors.
When do we get a direct-to-Sci-Fi-Channel movie?
sadly that is a good analogy for this. The first one was normal, then the second one had one with legs, a little harder to take seriously, then you get the "assblasters" by the third. lol
While Tremors was not meant to really be taken seriously I still thought that the creature design was top notch. Anyway, they kept messing with the life cycle of the creatures in that franchise as well until it made no sense at all. Granted, the fact that the sequels captured none of the original's fun didn't help either.
Sound familiar?
yes and i thought i emphasized that. lol
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 27, 2007, 05:25:28 AM
Quote from: ArielAleXCo on Oct 27, 2007, 05:13:21 AM
you idiot... you are born a "MAN" but you dont get to -f**k- until you are all fully grown... this is something similar... but more extraterrestial.
Oh, I get it. You're saying that before a boy becomes a man, he pukes his semen right down a chick's throat. Best metaphor ever!
he was talking about a queen having to grow extra arms.... she doesnt... as we dont need to grow other stuff, bub.
Quote
The whole Alien franchise is turning into Tremors.
The Alien franchise was well on its way to Tremors with the release of Resurrection. Besides, this isn't Alien, this is A
VP
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 27, 2007, 05:25:45 AM
Quote from: ArielAleXCo on Oct 27, 2007, 05:13:21 AMyou idiot... you are born a "MAN" but you dont get to -f**k- until you are all fully grown... this is something similar... but more extraterrestial. it makes sense...
It still doesn't make sense, as if the Queen had such a cycle the need to produce eggs would be non-existent. And the youngest mother ever was 5, so sexual maturity and the correlation to sex and/or insemination isn't so easily defined.
Quoteand might look cool on screen if they went more like into hentai to this shot o more humanly into oral sex porno hardcorte stuff... also remmember the aliens where supposed to be "dick-heads"
No. Just...no. I've had the unfortunate luck to see some tentacle hentai, and it is nothing but disgusting crap. The Alien should have sadistic reasonings, even kill in a way that could be called "rough sex"...but there are limits to where it would just become laughable.
I totally think is laughable...
Quote from: Noir-Gojira on Oct 27, 2007, 05:46:46 AM
The Alien franchise was well on its way to Tremors with the release of Resurrection. Besides, this isn't Alien, this is AVP
That statement would make sense if every person who touched AVP wasn't so desperate to connect it to the original series.
Quote from: ArielAleXCo on Oct 27, 2007, 05:13:21 AM
[...] and might look cool on screen if they went more like into hentai to this shot o more humanly into oral sex porno hardcorte stuff
Yeah, ummm...your fu<king weird man... :-X
Quote
That statement would make sense if every person who touched AVP wasn't so desperate to connect it to the original series.
Cameos and corporate references do not a connection make. And my first point still stands, the series had become akin to Tremors long ago during the fourth film.
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Oct 27, 2007, 05:51:52 AM
Quote from: Noir-Gojira on Oct 27, 2007, 05:46:46 AM
The Alien franchise was well on its way to Tremors with the release of Resurrection. Besides, this isn't Alien, this is AVP
That statement would make sense if every person who touched AVP wasn't so desperate to connect it to the original series.
yeah, no one ever admits that they're taking shit in a new direction that clearly won't make fans happy and then stands behind it despite that. Instead they claim "it won't break continuity and is canon". There were at least a couple statements in different interviews that emphasized that point. If they knew this was to be featured in the film and obviously they did, then why flat out lie? There's no integrity in that. If they told us this shit flat out or alluded to the fact that certain things may be controversial but they stand behind it anwyay, it would have lessened the impact a little. Now that the film features things which contradict the director's statements, its hard not to distrust them a little/lose some respect for them.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 09:09:37 PM
I love how something is "lame-ass" when you haven't seen it at all.
Colin, I just want to say that I'm good with this new reproduction idea. I think it's nifty, and really sci-fi, which is what I like about it. 8)
Quote from: ArielAleXCo on Oct 27, 2007, 05:48:12 AM
I totally think is laughable...
Then feel free to say why, so long as you don't expand on your wishes for the Alien series to emulate tentacle hentais.
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 27, 2007, 06:02:53 AM
[...] so long as you don't expand on your wishes for the Alien series to emulate tentacle hentais.
Seriously... ;D
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 27, 2007, 06:02:53 AM
Quote from: ArielAleXCo on Oct 27, 2007, 05:48:12 AM
I totally think is laughable...
Then feel free to say why, so long as you don't expand on your wishes for the Alien series to emulate tentacle hentais.
no, you got me wrong hentai girl being attacked by tentacle extraterrestils is totally laughable for me. ^_^
Quoteyeah, no one ever admits that they're taking shit in a new direction that clearly won't make fans happy and then stands behind it despite that.
Fans themselves cannot even agree amongst themselves on what they like, why expect a total stranger to?
QuoteInstead they claim "it won't break continuity and is canon".
Which one?
Quote
If they knew this was to be featured in the film and obviously they did, then why flat out lie? There's no integrity in that.
Integrity? In Hollywood?
Quote
If they told us this shit flat out or alluded to the fact that certain things may be controversial but they stand behind it anwyay, it would have lessened the impact a little.
And maybe pigs will fly.
Quoteits hard not to distrust them a little/lose some respect for them.
Didn't your mother tell you never to trust/respect strangers?
Quote from: Noir-Gojira on Oct 27, 2007, 06:10:48 AM
Quoteyeah, no one ever admits that they're taking shit in a new direction that clearly won't make fans happy and then stands behind it despite that.
Fans themselves cannot even agree amongst themselves on what they like, why expect a total stranger to?
QuoteInstead they claim "it won't break continuity and is canon".
Which one?
Quote
If they knew this was to be featured in the film and obviously they did, then why flat out lie? There's no integrity in that.
Integrity? In Hollywood?
Quote
If they told us this shit flat out or alluded to the fact that certain things may be controversial but they stand behind it anwyay, it would have lessened the impact a little.
And maybe pigs will fly.
QuoteNow that the film features things which contradict the director's statements
OMG! You saw it??
Quoteits hard not to distrust them a little/lose some respect for them.
Didn't your mother tell you never to trust/respect strangers?
yeah that's all funny. But seriously doesn't change the fact that there is bullshit in the air and that this new idea blows and should have never seen the light of day.
Quote from: Gates on Oct 27, 2007, 05:53:02 AM
Quote from: ArielAleXCo on Oct 27, 2007, 05:13:21 AM
[...] and might look cool on screen if they went more like into hentai to this shot o more humanly into oral sex porno hardcorte stuff
Yeah, ummm...your fu<king weird man... :-X
ok, then imagine "ireversible" with monica bellucci but instead of a guy... the predalien queen... ive been told that was a freeke shot. remmember after all the aliens rape us humans and dogs and... what ever.
Quote
yeah that's all funny. But seriously doesn't change the fact that there is bullshit in the air and that this new idea blows and should have never seen the light of day.
Unfortunately, that's all subject to personal point of view.
Quote from: ArielAleXCo on Oct 27, 2007, 06:13:39 AM
ok, then imagine "ireversible" with monica bellucci but instead of a guy... the predalien queen... ive been told that was a freeke shot. remmember after all the aliens rape us humans and dogs and... what ever.
I've actually seen that movie...it's one of the most disturbing scenes in all of movie history...and it was a great movie for it...but it fit that film's level of realism...it would be far too disturbing and out of place in an alien movie...
if, that is, they would ever reach that level of acting in an Alien or AvP film...
Gates,
you saw already the movie? Maybe in a press airing?
anyway
predalien kisses? oh, no, thats is definitly not Alien vs Predator!!! I think the "new repropduction style" remember me to the funny movie SLITHERS...
Quote from: hudSSon on Oct 27, 2007, 06:45:14 AM
Gates,
you saw already the movie? Maybe in a press airing?
What the hell are you talking about?
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 10:23:18 PM
It wasn't. The Quad commentary says almost the same thing - Scarier that it's heard and not seen.
Face it, there's no mention of Alien impregnation re Lambert, only that Ridley wanted people to be suspicious of the cat, and even then he never implied how it would be infected.
Suspecting the cat of what?
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Oct 27, 2007, 05:42:50 AM
While Tremors was not meant to really be taken seriously I still thought that the creature design was top notch. Anyway, they kept messing with the life cycle of the creatures in that franchise as well until it made no sense at all. Granted, the fact that the sequels captured none of the original's fun didn't help either.
Sound familiar?
The fourth was quite entertaining. It was more of a prequel, set in the previous century.
Quote from: Gates on Oct 27, 2007, 07:00:46 AM
Quote from: hudSSon on Oct 27, 2007, 06:45:14 AM
Gates,
you saw already the movie? Maybe in a press airing?
What the hell are you talking about?
I've actually seen that movie...it's one of the most disturbing scenes in all of movie history...and it was a great movie for it...but it fit that film's level of realism...it would be far too disturbing and out of place in an alien movie...if, that is, they would ever reach that level of acting in an Alien or AvP film...
-------
sorry, my keyboard was to fast
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 27, 2007, 04:04:26 AM
Quote from: MattTaz on Oct 27, 2007, 03:59:22 AM
OK, this is from the Theatrical Version commentary on the Directors Cut DVD. Sometimes Ridley Scott is talking with Sigourney Weaver and other times on his own
"We didn't know how she (lambert) died. The implication was that there was kind of a sexuality to this adrogenous male female (alien) who could give birth itself but could also impregnate......there are insects like that so we based that on good old mother nature and um was that some dreadful ending, some terrible invasion of her (lambert's) body, a rape, and therefore would there be a version of the Cartwright (lambert) character? There would certainly, whatever happens, be more humanoid aliens now on the craft and thats what she (ripley) now has to destroy"
Notice the word IMPLICATION. That was the intention in '79. Once Aliens came along, that means nothing. Also, it's kind of stupid to say she has to destroy the ship because there could be more Aliens. How would she even know that? The plan from the beginning was to blow up the ship, so that plan had nothing to do with a possible impregnation of Lambert. Kind of a dumb thing for Ridley to say.
The word 'implication' does also leave the door open for further development. Just because Aliens had a Queen it doesn't mean that that's the only way to reproduce. I like the Alien to have diversity and oprions for species survival. However Lambert's disappearing shoes and trousers does leave open other horrible options
Quote from: hudSSon on Oct 27, 2007, 07:10:25 AM
I've actually seen that movie...it's one of the most disturbing scenes in all of movie history...and it was a great movie for it...but it fit that film's level of realism...it would be far too disturbing and out of place in an alien movie...if, that is, they would ever reach that level of acting in an Alien or AvP film...
-------
sorry, my keyboard was to fast
Okay I still have no idea what your talking about...yes, I saw the movie Irréversible (2002) what is the problem here?
Well after reading many posts on this thread and trying not to have my brain explode after reading all the arguements i feel id like to put my 2 cents in.
This idea first infuriated me and pissed me off to no end. It took about 3 hours for me to have a turning point on it. I begane to picture the predalien holding some one down and slowly forcing its mouth down the victims throat and i realized just how perfect it is. It goes extremely well with the sexual aspect of the face hugger and design of the alien. It really is a rape now.
This explains the necesity of having the long mouths with the species. The thought of what a lone drone will do in the absence of a hive is not bad. I did prefer the pratorian growth theory but i think this theory works well also.
Sil is just an asshole, seriously... if they leave holes opened in previous films it's not a bad idea to maybe try to fill them in, which they haven't even done because you can't just assume that if the predalien inpregnates it's victims, that's what happened to Lambert, the complainins about queens not having life cycle's is ridiculous, if that were the case we could also assume Ripley never had a life cycle since in A:R we only see her as a fully grown woman ::) I mean they were clones kept in quarantine, besides I doubt they were gonna give hosts for the queen to inpregnate if that fact wasn't even mentioned then so we can just assume they weren't aware of it, but still... having to bring up A:R into arguments shows how desperate and out of arguments
Now claiming egg morphing to be better than the alien inpregnating a victim... the alien is basically going to rape the person, how is that not disturbing and alien-like? just try to picture an alien mouth-raping a person, if pulled off right it can come out nicely and give us all a new reason to fear aliens. You say it doesn't follow continuity, I have yet to see how this breaks continuity, just like Colin said, it is expanding it, we've never seen a young unfully grown queen, and if she can't lay eggs. if a queen has no aliens to protect her, that's not a bad way for her to reproduce and start building a hive, after all... if you haven't seen it before it's because the queens we've seen are already grown up, and can lay eggs, and when they can lay eggs what would be more conventient, to lay an egg and have it find it's victim or have to find hosts, catch them, and rape them? ???
Quote from: Skynetdyne on Oct 27, 2007, 07:31:16 AM
Well after reading many posts on this thread and trying not to have my brain explode after reading all the arguements i feel id like to put my 2 cents in.
This idea first infuriated me and pissed me off to no end. It took about 3 hours for me to have a turning point on it. I begane to picture the predalien holding some one down and slowly forcing its mouth down the victims throat and i realized just how perfect it is. It goes extremely well with the sexual aspect of the face hugger and design of the alien. It really is a rape now.
This explains the necesity of having the long mouths with the species. The thought of what a lone drone will do in the absence of a hive is not bad. I did prefer the pratorian growth theory but i think this theory works well also.
Actually the DVD extras H R Giger is on he's always drawing the Alien kissing the human host. As I consider Giger to be the soul of the alien creature it could be argued that this new lifecycle is more in tune with Giger's creation than any of the other ideas i.e. Newborn
You can just imagine Giger dressed in black sitting on one of his freaky chairs saying "Yes kiss her, deeper yes, that's so creepy and sensual"
OK I've just freaked myself out ;D
I still want Colin & Greg on AvP3 because that presents us the best chance of getting something closer to Giger's Alien.
As for the new reproduction method, it's credible, but egg-morphing is ultimately more terrifying and original. Still, I won't hate on the idea till I've seen it on the screen.
Quote from: MattTaz on Oct 27, 2007, 07:59:26 AM
Quote from: Skynetdyne on Oct 27, 2007, 07:31:16 AM
Well after reading many posts on this thread and trying not to have my brain explode after reading all the arguements i feel id like to put my 2 cents in.
This idea first infuriated me and pissed me off to no end. It took about 3 hours for me to have a turning point on it. I begane to picture the predalien holding some one down and slowly forcing its mouth down the victims throat and i realized just how perfect it is. It goes extremely well with the sexual aspect of the face hugger and design of the alien. It really is a rape now.
This explains the necesity of having the long mouths with the species. The thought of what a lone drone will do in the absence of a hive is not bad. I did prefer the pratorian growth theory but i think this theory works well also.
Actually the DVD extras H R Giger is on he's always drawing the Alien kissing the human host. As I consider Giger to be the soul of the alien creature it could be argued that this new lifecycle is more in tune with Giger's creation than any of the other ideas i.e. Newborn
You can just imagine Giger dressed in black sitting on one of his freaky chairs saying "Yes kiss her, deeper yes, that's so creepy and sensual"
OK I've just freaked myself out ;D
Thats exactly what I like about it, its a very giger idea. And Giger is the soul of the Alien.
Quote from: SuicideDoors on Oct 27, 2007, 07:59:49 AM
I still want Colin & Greg on AvP3 because that presents us the best chance of getting something closer to Giger's Alien.
How do you figure that? Most of the stuff we've seen so far couldn't be further from the original.
I told many people that something will be f**ked up,but nobody want to listen me!
That new PredAlien hybrid should have been just an one bigger,uglier alien.The PredAlien should have been like in the AVP 2 games,but nobody want to listen.NOBODY!
The directors should have make it like the one from the games.
Not some egg morphing or pukeing in people's mouth to make Chestbusters.
It so f**ked up,i tell ya!
>:(
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 27, 2007, 05:35:01 AM
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 27, 2007, 05:32:10 AM
It's kind of funny how you both bash us and promote another forum at the same time. :D
Yeah as if saying f**k your forum, ours is better isn't immature. ::)
I have NEVER seen as much flaming as I've seen in this forum. It's actually really sad to try and read through. Yeah, my forum is more mature. We value a difference of opinion and can DISCUSS it without all the hate mongering that goes on here. What's ironic is there are FAR more posts from supposed fans about a movie they hate than there are in the thread about the movie they SUPPOSEDLY love. What the hell is that about?
Quote from: Sabres21768 on Oct 27, 2007, 08:39:20 AM
I have NEVER seen as much flaming as I've seen in this forum.
You've evidently never visited the IMDb forums, then. ;)
QuoteWhat's ironic is there are FAR more posts from supposed fans about a movie they hate than there are in the thread about the movie they SUPPOSEDLY love.
That isn't irony. Plus, you know full well there's gonna be more posts about something upcoming than something thirty years old.
Quote from: Sabres21768 on Oct 27, 2007, 08:39:20 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 27, 2007, 05:35:01 AM
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 27, 2007, 05:32:10 AM
It's kind of funny how you both bash us and promote another forum at the same time. :D
Yeah as if saying f**k your forum, ours is better isn't immature. ::)
I have NEVER seen as much flaming as I've seen in this forum. It's actually really sad to try and read through. Yeah, my forum is more mature.
That's an Alien forum, just like AXP. This is an AvP site. If your forum were getting as much traffic as this one, believe me, the arguments would soar. And yes, as Antman said, go visit the AvP2 Forum on IMDB. You ain't seen nothing until you've gone there.
And anyway, it's to be expected really. This is a pretty big change they're making to the alien life cycle. I'm not too happy about it. It would have been a lot simpler to do egg-morphing. I'm no fan of that but it would have been better than this way.
There's nothing to say that the oral "rape" isn't what begins the initial egg-morphing process. For all we know, the egg-morphing could actually be to create the developing Queen's "guards", as it was seen in the Director's Cut of Alien that both Brett & Dallas were cocooned, which conflicts with the idea that the drone was breeding a new Queen, possibly suggesting that it may have been becoming one itself.
I suppose we'll have to wait until we see the movie before making any final judgments on whether this actually conflicts with the canon life cycle in any way.
Quote from: RealKreator on Oct 27, 2007, 07:41:50 AM
Sil is just an asshole, seriously...
Try and be more courteous to fellow forum members, please.
Quoteif they leave holes opened in previous films it's not a bad idea to maybe try to fill them in,
What's set a lot of people off is that, when it came to this, there was no hole, but someone evidently imagined one into existence and tried to fill it in, regardless.
Quotewhich they haven't even done because you can't just assume that if the predalien inpregnates it's victims, that's what happened to Lambert, the complainins about queens not having life cycle's is ridiculous, if that were the case we could also assume Ripley never had a life cycle since in A:R we only see her as a fully grown woman ::) I mean they were clones kept in quarantine, besides I doubt they were gonna give hosts for the queen to inpregnate if that fact wasn't even mentioned then so we can just assume they weren't aware of it, but still... having to bring up A:R into arguments shows how desperate and out of arguments
You seriously need to read back over the many pages in this thread before bringing up stuff like that. The main bone of contention isn't that something new has been added to the Alien, it's that the 'something new' in question now renders both natural Queens and egg transformation obselete. What's the point of natural Queens if any adult can simply go away form the nest and become one? What's the point of egging victims if this cheaper, quicker method achieves the same result?
QuoteNow claiming egg morphing to be better than the alien inpregnating a victim... the alien is basically going to rape the person, how is that not disturbing and alien-like? just try to picture an alien mouth-raping a person, if pulled off right it can come out nicely and give us all a new reason to fear aliens.
I agree. I like the concept for that sort of reason. I think what we see will be amazingly iconic. It's just unfortunate that it does what I point out above.
Also, it's basically ripped off from the Tyranid Genestealers. :)
QuoteYou say it doesn't follow continuity, I have yet to see how this breaks continuity, just like Colin said, it is expanding it, we've never seen a young unfully grown queen, and if she can't lay eggs. if a queen has no aliens to protect her, that's not a bad way for her to reproduce and start building a hive, after all... if you haven't seen it before it's because the queens we've seen are already grown up, and can lay eggs, and when they can lay eggs what would be more conventient, to lay an egg and have it find it's victim or have to find hosts, catch them, and rape them? ???
Yet we had a full statement on the Auriga about how the younger Queens are like. Nothing about this new method. If there was, they would not have needed the other hosts.
Also, see what I've been saying about the eggs. The eggs
are her protection. They're a dormant, very lethal minefield. The individual facehuggers can apparently be encouraged to hatch on their own and seek hosts.
The most protective thing any Queen can do is to place itself somewhere safe and away from attention, not seek out confrontation.
Quote from: Dutch Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 08:36:36 AM
I told many people that something will be f**ked up,but nobody want to listen me!
That new PredAlien hybrid should have been just an one bigger,uglier alien.The PredAlien should have been like in the AVP 2 games,but nobody want to listen.NOBODY!
The directors should have make it like the one from the games.
Not some egg morphing or pukeing in people's mouth to make Chestbusters.
It so f**ked up,i tell ya!
>:(
But the game version was manky. They looked like apes with really big lower jaws. This one at least looks better than that.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 27, 2007, 10:05:27 AM
You seriously need to read back over the many pages in this thread before bringing up stuff like that. The main bone of contention isn't that something new has been added to the Alien, it's that the 'something new' in question now renders both natural Queens and egg transformation obselete. What's the point of natural Queens if any adult can simply go away form the nest and become one? What's the point of egging victims if this cheaper, quicker method achieves the same result?
We have to assume there is only a limited amount of times an alien can reproduce that way.
QuoteYet we had a full statement on the Auriga about how the younger Queens are like. Nothing about this new method. If there was, they would not have needed the other hosts.
That Queen was in captivity. We don't know how she would have acted if she was free to do anything she wants.
QuoteAlso, see what I've been saying about the eggs. The eggs are her protection. theyr'e a dormant, very lethal minefield. The individual facehuggers can apparently be encouraged to hatch on their own and seek hosts.
It would presumably take some time for the Queen to produce enough eggs to protect her in this way. In the meantime, she is vulnerable.
QuoteThe most protective thing any Queen can do is to place itself somewhere safe and away from attention, not seek out confrontation.
Yeah but this is not always a given.
QuoteBut the game version was manky. They looked like apes with really big lower jaws. This one at least looks better than that.
It is a reference to the games, though. I know that most people only know about predaliens through the AVP games.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 10:14:04 AM
It would presumably take some time for the Queen to produce enough eggs to protect her in this way. In the meantime, she is vulnerable.
Where did the idea that a Queen is vulnerable come from? I mean once she reaches the standard alien size(7-8 feet) I see no reason to believe that she can't defend herself as viciously as the rest, and she isn't even full grown yet...
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 27, 2007, 02:56:07 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 02:54:58 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 27, 2007, 02:53:39 AM
Agreed. The best part about these movies is the passion that the fans have for them, even if we all totally disagree.
See? Isn't he great folks?
Just ... please, for the love of God. Don't make AvP 3.
I have this great idea for a Predator Mind killing weapon. He just looks at an Alien and it explodes... sound great huh?
Hahahaa, I laughed a helluva lot when I read that. Your point about not seeing how a Queen comes about is a good one, so I will patiently wait and see what comes about. Cheers for posting here.
Quote from: Gates on Oct 27, 2007, 10:17:56 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 10:14:04 AM
It would presumably take some time for the Queen to produce enough eggs to protect her in this way. In the meantime, she is vulnerable.
Where did the idea that a Queen is vulnerable come from? I mean once she reaches the standard alien size(7-8 feet) I see no reason to believe that she can't defend herself as viciously as the rest, and she isn't even full grown yet...
Well if she is busy fighting off enemies, she can't lay eggs can she? Or build a hive to protect her. See what happens in Aliens when Ripley destroys the hive.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 10:22:18 AM
Well if she is busy fighting off enemies, she can't lay eggs can she? Or build a hive to protect her. See what happens in Aliens when Ripley destroys the hive.
Oh...you mean in the hive while she's attached to the egg-sack...I thought you meant before that stage, while she was 'younger'...
To be fair your all arguing about the queen being born a queen, but we don't know for certain if the predalien was born from a queen embryo which would result in a pred-queen. As far to go for regurgitating new aliens where would that make a lot of difference, bursting out a chest makes a much more terrifying ordeal, so i'm gonna have to say I have to say i prefer the original idea as they both come out a body from the inside but bursting is a better scene I think.
Just wait till the movie is out.I think it wil be pretty cool to watch Chet impregnating someone
Yeah, it'll be "cool".
I wonder who'll be gagging more...the chick taking an Alien load down her throat, or all the fans of any Alien movie made before 1992?
Quote from: The Ultimate Predator on Oct 27, 2007, 10:20:04 AM
Your point about not seeing how a Queen comes about is a good one,
No it isn't. He's no better than the other
Aliens fanboys who stick their fingers in their ears and ignore the latter two Alien movies.
Excuse me interrupting your fight, but here's two cents from an average Predator and Alien fan:
If Aliens were real, I would bitch till the end of times.
But shit, it's only a movie. It's fiction. Battling to death about reproduction method seems odd to me. I'm just happy and excited that I'm gonna watch a new Alien and Predator film, not to mention that even now, before The Great Premiere, it "looks" better than the first one. But let's wait to the premiere and let's try to enjoy this movie.
That's all. I think you all are trying to hard.
Quote from: Gates on Oct 27, 2007, 10:29:24 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 10:22:18 AM
Well if she is busy fighting off enemies, she can't lay eggs can she? Or build a hive to protect her. See what happens in Aliens when Ripley destroys the hive.
Oh...you mean in the hive while she's attached to the egg-sack...I thought you meant before that stage, while she was 'younger'...
No, what I meant was it is handy if she has quite a few drones to protect her for when she reaches the stage to lay the eggs.
Quote from: zombie_sidekick on Oct 27, 2007, 11:39:41 AMBut shit, it's only a movie. It's fiction.
And the bible is only a book. The American Constitution is only some squiggly lines on bits of paper. Plato is just some ancient Greek dude.
Reproduction via regurgitation - Absolute f**king wank!
Ladies and Gentlemen do we have another Paul W.S. Anderson? God knows he f**ked up the first AVP but all credit to the guy he didn't f**k around with ideas this bad. Colin I'm not going to sing your praises like a lot of people have - "Oh Colin that's a great idea" "Oh Colin thanks for coming to explain" "Oh Colin you're so talented" - Seriously dude, reproduction via regurgitation? Were you stoned at the time you thought that bullshit up?
So now that Ripley's chestburst in A3 was a Queen are we to simply ignore this and follow the idea that Alien drones can become Queens as a last ditch effort at surviving? and that Queens are simply matured Aliens? Ridley/Cameron I feel for you, I really do! :(
My advice to a possible AVP3 director would be - Don't make the movie unless you have sufficient funds and don't make the movie with scripts that piss over continuity.
They should make Predalien multiply with water ;D
So question... What does a Alien from a human host impregnated by a Predalien look like? :D
Holy shit! 50 pages for less then a day. At least the Bro's know how to get people's attention. ;D
I knew that tale raping would be the big surprise, and regurgitation, is Shit an alien penguin now?
P.S
Look at the first pics of Shit released, and the way it's looking at the woman, and the way the woman is in pain it's obvious that it is raping her with it's tail...
I know!!! Predalien is from Namec. They also were reproduceing via their throats. God it is so radicolous.
Well remember that Colin said that the most dominant alien morphs into a queen. It certainly is better than them standing around and waiting for a queen alien to be born.
Also, maybe a Queen can decide to lay an egg containing a queen-bearing facehugger - if it knows that it's life is at risk and needs to have another queen to replace her. That explains Alien 3 and the queen chestburster (assuming the Queen did lay that egg aboard the Sulaco).
it obviously "regurgitates" eggs down the victims throat. i dont think it's sloppy liquid all over the place. what i do think is this is ignorant reporters trying to overdramatize this.
I can accept the idea, But i've never seen a bigger bunch of girly cry babies in my life.
Were 8 movies deep, with the franchise plumiting faster than ever, If this redeems it in some way, then i dont give a toss how its done. Were at the sh*t end of the stick here, with $40 Mil to spend on a Comic book movie.
Wake up and smell the coffee!
The Poll shows more than half the fans like it, Job done. The other 40% are still going to see it to see how it pans out, with probably 10% sitting in their bed crying themselves to sleep.
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 27, 2007, 12:27:04 PM
The Poll shows more than half the fans like it, Job done. The other 40% are still going to see it to see how it pans out, with probably 10% sitting in their bed crying themselves to sleep.
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAAH! My pint exactly ;D
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 12:09:06 PM
Well remember that Colin said that the most dominant alien morphs into a queen. It certainly is better than them standing around and waiting for a queen alien to be born.
If the queen is killed why the Aliens wouldn't just get a new host, bring him/her back to the hive - then a facehugger with queen embryo would implant the host. Doesn't this seem more obvious and more tenet than an Alien regurgitating in the mouth of a host. As much as I hate to say this but the whole Alien ethos does mirror a bee hive and with that said worker bees don't turn into queens and I believe that drone aliens don't either.
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 27, 2007, 12:27:04 PM
with probably 10% sitting in their bed crying themselves to sleep.
This statement is so ridiculous it's sad...here's a newsflash for you;
PEOPLE WILL DISAGREE WITH OTHERS...believe me, you will have an easier life the sooner you accept that revelation...
My pillow is all wet.
I like the idea. I wounder how long it will take though for her to lay the embreo?
Yet its not new..... some of the comics in Aliens with a hybrid would regurgitate in its hosts mouth. :-*
Quotesome of the comics in Aliens with a hybrid would regurgitate in its hosts mouth.
Now I'm really going to throw up...somebody please tell me that this whole sh!tbag idea didn't come from some form of
EU garbage... :-X
Quote from: Darth_Spud on Oct 27, 2007, 12:38:38 PM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 12:09:06 PM
Well remember that Colin said that the most dominant alien morphs into a queen. It certainly is better than them standing around and waiting for a queen alien to be born.
If the queen is killed why the Aliens wouldn't just get a new host, bring him/her back to the hive - then a facehugger with queen embryo would implant the host. Doesn't this seem more obvious and more tenet than an Alien regurgitating in the mouth of a host. As much as I hate to say this but the whole Alien ethos does mirror a bee hive and with that said worker bees don't turn into queens and I believe that drone aliens don't either.
Because a facehugger containing a queen embryo is probably random. How would the aliens know if it was a queen-hugger in the egg? Besides, why would the Queen lay a queen-facehugger if there already is a queen? Unless all facehuggers actually have two embryos - one drone and one queen - then there is no other explanation.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 01:18:00 PM
How would the aliens know if it was a queen-hugger in the egg?
The same way the alien in
Alien3 knew that Ripley had a Queen embryo within her...
Right, one thing i love this new (but is not new cus it was in earth hive) idea where an Alien changes into a queen, think about it if there is no host's and the queen dies who runs the hive? egg morphing is a cool idea, but its a slow process. best thing yet colin love it.
Quote from: Gates on Oct 27, 2007, 01:21:18 PM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 01:18:00 PM
How would the aliens know if it was a queen-hugger in the egg?
The same way the alien in Alien3 knew that Ripley had a Queen embryo within her...
Yes, but that doesn't answer my second question:
QuoteBesides, why would the Queen lay a queen-facehugger if there already is a queen?
^ Yeah was going to say that GATES ;D. Besides it wouldn't hurt to have a facehugger with a queen embryo as a backup.
QuoteUnless all facehuggers actually have two embryos - one drone and one queen
Funny you should mention that, I thought about that a while ago.
oh whats that old movie where aliens rape ppls mouths?
Quote from: shakermakerman on Oct 27, 2007, 01:27:50 PM
oh whats that old movie where aliens rape ppls mouths?
Dunno about an old one, but I saw a film called Feast, with big mutant monkeys that raped the mouths of their victims.
It was terrible.
QuoteUnless all facehuggers actually have two embryos - one drone and one queen - then there is no other explanation.
No, its a continuity error made by fincher.
The whole facehugger on ship idea was laughable in the first place, there was no way the queen was shitting another egg on the ship.
Quote from: Darth_Spud on Oct 27, 2007, 01:27:17 PM
^ Yeah was going to say that GATES ;D. Besides it wouldn't hurt to have a facehugger with a queen embryo as a backup.
The problem with that theory, is that eggs don't last forever (they eventually die, as seen in Alien) so you would need the queen to keep laying queen-facehugger eggs. And what if one egg opens? Then you have two queens. Doesn't make sense.
I was always more a fan of the idea that Aliens could feed a new Alien royal jelly to create a Queen, but Alien 3 kinda ruins that for me. :)
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 27, 2007, 01:30:48 PM
QuoteUnless all facehuggers actually have two embryos - one drone and one queen - then there is no other explanation.
No, its a continuity error made by fincher.
The whole facehugger on ship idea was laughable in the first plce, there was no way the queen was shitting another egg on the ship.
The egg got there somehow - but the fact it just happened to have a queen-facehugger in it is stretching credibility a lot, yes.
Really, it should have been the super-facehugger seen at the start. We know there was only one egg shown - there couldn't have been two facehuggers.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 01:26:28 PM
Yes, but that doesn't answer my second question:
QuoteBesides, why would the Queen lay a queen-facehugger if there already is a queen?
Well that one doesn't have an
in-film answer, so the best we could do is speculate...here are two reasons I personally like:
A. For an emergency situation, or the hive is presently being threatened and she craps one out quickly for back up as Spud mentioned
and...
B. In keeping with the original film's take on aliens, they have a predetermined, short lifespan...so she craps one out for her inevitable expiration...this way the hive can continue to flourish with a new 'mother'...
Either one will due, but I personally prefer option B...
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 01:32:15 PM
The problem with that theory, is that eggs don't last forever (they eventually die, as seen in Alien) [...]
Wait one second...at what point in
Alien do they show a dead egg!? I've never seen it and I've watched the movie countless times...
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 27, 2007, 01:33:22 PM
I was always more a fan of the idea that Aliens could feed a new Alien royal jelly to create a Queen, but Alien 3 kinda ruins that for me. :)
Well your idea makes even less sense than barfing. What if there is no Queen? Then you have no royal jelly.
So what Colin is basically saying is that if there is no Queen, life or nature will find a way to change the whole order of things if it can't reproduce the way it was intended. I like the way you think Colin. Looking forward to seeing how it turns out on film.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 01:38:15 PM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 27, 2007, 01:33:22 PM
I was always more a fan of the idea that Aliens could feed a new Alien royal jelly to create a Queen, but Alien 3 kinda ruins that for me. :)
Well your idea makes even less sense than barfing. What if there is no Queen? Then you have no royal jelly.
Royal jelly doesn't come from a Queen. Worker bees secrete it.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 27, 2007, 02:56:07 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 02:54:58 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 27, 2007, 02:53:39 AM
Agreed. The best part about these movies is the passion that the fans have for them, even if we all totally disagree.
See? Isn't he great folks?
Just ... please, for the love of God. Don't make AvP 3.
I have this great idea for a Predator Mind killing weapon. He just looks at an Alien and it explodes... sound great huh?
pmsl
Quote from: Gates on Oct 27, 2007, 01:37:44 PM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 01:26:28 PM
Yes, but that doesn't answer my second question:
QuoteBesides, why would the Queen lay a queen-facehugger if there already is a queen?
Well that one doesn't have an in-film answer, so the best we could do is speculate...here are two reasons I personally like:
A. For an emergency situation, or the hive is presently being threatened and she craps one out quickly for back up as Spud mentioned
Yes but if she doesn't make the egg in time she is screwed.
Quoteand...
B. In keeping with the original film's take on aliens, they have a predetermined, short lifespan...so she craps one out for her inevitable expiration...this way the hive can continue to flourish with a new 'mother'...
This is no different than having the Queen live forever. Both assume there is already a functioning hive in the first place.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 27, 2007, 01:41:12 PM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 01:38:15 PM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 27, 2007, 01:33:22 PM
I was always more a fan of the idea that Aliens could feed a new Alien royal jelly to create a Queen, but Alien 3 kinda ruins that for me. :)
Well your idea makes even less sense than barfing. What if there is no Queen? Then you have no royal jelly.
Royal jelly doesn't come from a Queen. Worker bees secrete it.
Now your idea is getting even worse. If every alien can secrete the royal jelly, why don't they all become queens?
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 01:43:03 PM
[...] Both assume there is already a functioning hive in the first place.
That wasn't part of your original question...you asked, "why would the Queen lay a queen-facehugger if there already is a queen?"...and I gave you two
speculative answers... ;)
And you didn't tell me where you saw a dead alien egg in
Alien...
Quote from: Gates on Oct 27, 2007, 01:49:27 PM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 01:43:03 PM
[...] Both assume there is already a functioning hive in the first place.
That wasn't part of your original question...you asked, "why would the Queen lay a queen-facehugger if there already is a queen?"...and I gave you two speculative answers... ;)
Yes, and the question still stands. Sorry, but your answers aren't satisfactory. ;)
QuoteAnd you didn't tell me where you saw a dead alien egg in Alien...
When Kane is being lowered into the egg chamber - only one section has the stasis fields. All of the other eggs look deformed - like in the game AVP2 - you see those eggs are obviously expired.
Oh my, how some people forget these days, yet I distinctly remember a time when Aliens came out in 1986 and the distaste for the introduction of the Alien Queen. Ok, there was no internet back then, but there were plenty of other ways to communicate, like through the ALENS comics around at the time, and there were a LOT of people who felt that an Alien Queen who "layed eggs" seriously screwed with their vision of the originl ALIEN life-cycle.
The gripe back then was thie reproduction process just wasnt "alien" enough for some people, adding to the fact many even then new about the Dalllas/Brett cocoon sequence. Like today people asked questions such as "what happened to the other Space Jockeys?" and "Where do the eggs come from?", and when you think about it, what could be more alien than a creature that procreates using its victims, then that creation goes on to do something even more terriifying. On reflectiom, the introduction of the Alien Queen was a straight foward answer to the aliens life-cycle, to which those who shook their heads at have accepted over the years, partly because the cocoon sequence (which should never have been removed IMO) was by then considered canon.
And now we have a "similar" thing all over again, only this time the reproduction process is a direct result of the new creature, a Predailen who is presumably a Queen able to bypass the egg-laying and facehugging stages in favour of implanting her victims herself. If this is what the Strauss Brothers meant by taking the Alien part back to its roots I have to say I absolutlely love this idea. Its a disgusting... almost like being face-hugged but you (presumably) know its coming... and if its done as a requirement of the Aliens life-cycle and the start of something, Im quite happy with it. But thats the thing isnt it.... are we seeing (in Pic 4) the beginning of a completely new alien reproduction process thats related only to the predator, which isnt a bad idea, it'l be interesting to see how it pans out as we know there are Huggers in the movie, and that one of them is different to those seen in the Red Band trailer.
As for the design of the Predalien, I think its ok, but Im with most peoples gripes so wont go into that. But I do feel assuming this is a Queen, the creature just isnt BIG enough and should not be a man in a suite at all. Its also too Predator-like, and too different from the original Alien Queen for my liking. You'd have thought for example the Predalien Queen would also have 4 arms like the original, which has nothing to do with it been born from a human (Ripley in Alien 3) so why should it be any diferent from a Predator?
Just one last comment before I sign off.....is the Predalien actually a "hybrid"?? Ok I know what your saying, but think about it ok! If thi is the same creature from the first AVP, then how can it be a hybrid when its actually part of the Aliens own life cycle?? The Queen from ALIEN3 and probably ALIIENS too were born the same way, yet they are not classed as hybrid, and all this despite the fact we all know being hybrid means any kind of cross-breed or something made up from a variety of sources. As far as we know from AvP the Predalien Queen was created via a host like any other alien, only the embryo is different, and pressumably requires the supposed DNA reflex theory to develoip. If this is the case, shoudnt the new creature simply be the "Predalien Queen"?
Maybe there is more to this "new" creature than meets the eye.. we'll have to wait and see....
holy crap, people are still arguing about this? some of you need some sleep.
Anybody else suspect the Predalien maybe able to impregnate one host with multiple embryos, possibly leading to the group of bursters seen in the green band trailer? :-[
Just an idea. Hopefully it won't turn out that way...
Quote from: The Leader on Oct 27, 2007, 01:58:53 PM
Anybody else suspect the Predalien maybe able to impregnate one host with multiple embryos, possibly leading to the group of bursters seen in the green band trailer? :-[
Just an idea. Hopefully it won't turn out that way...
I would have no problem with that.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 01:53:51 PM
Sorry, but your answers aren't satisfactory. ;)
Well yes, they won't be because we haven't had an
in-film explanation for it... :P
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 01:53:51 PM
When Kane is being lowered into the egg chamber - only one section has the stasis fields. All of the other eggs look deformed - like in the game AVP2 - you see those eggs are obviously expired.
I never considered those things to be alien eggs, just something else in the ship (or complex) inventory...aside from the game has that been confirmed in any DVD commentary because I don't remember anything being said about them or is that just speculation on your end?
Quote from: RoaryUK on Oct 27, 2007, 01:56:02 PMAs for the design of the Predalien, I think its ok, but Im with most peoples gripes so wont go into that. But I do feel assuming this is a Queen, the creature just isnt BIG enough and should not be a man in a suite at all. Its also too Predator-like, and too different from the original Alien Queen for my liking. You'd have thought for example the Predalien Queen would also have 4 arms like the original, which has nothing to do with it been born from a human (Ripley in Alien 3) so why should it be any diferent from a Predator?
Just one last comment before I sign off.....is the Predalien actually a "hybrid"?? Ok I know what your saying, but think about it ok! If thi is the same creature from the the first AVP, then how can it be a hybrid when its actually part of the Aliens own life cycle?? The Queen from ALIEN3 and probably ALIIENS too were born the same way, yet they are not classed as hybrid, and all this despite the fact we all know being hybrid means any kind of cross-breed or something made up from a variety of sources. As far as we know, the Alien Queen is created via a host the same as any alien, only the embryo is different, and pressumably requires the supposed DNA reflex theory to develoip, if this is the case shoudnt the new creature simply be the "Predalien Queen?
There is no evidence whatsoever from the movies to back up the idea that the Queen embryo doesn't take DNA traits from it's host. The only reason why we have seen the same overall Queen design is that they were all born from humans.
Quote from: Gates on Oct 27, 2007, 02:06:54 PM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 01:53:51 PM
Sorry, but your answers aren't satisfactory. ;)
Well yes, they won't be because we haven't had an in-film explanation for it... :P
No, as I explained, your answers just are not very logical. Please don't take that badly, I'm just trying to debate here. :P
QuoteQuote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 01:53:51 PM
When Kane is being lowered into the egg chamber - only one section has the stasis fields. All of the other eggs look deformed - like in the game AVP2 - you see those eggs are obviously expired.
I never considered those things to be alien eggs, just something else in the ship (or complex) inventory...aside from the game has that been confirmed in any DVD commentary because I don't remember anything being said about them or is that just speculation on your end?
They are eggs - seriously, what else could they be? They have to be dead alien eggs otherwise there is no reason for the Space Jockey to use a stasis field.
Just watched it, those are eggs for sure, hundreds of them.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb290%2FBartleby24%2Feggchamberbmp.jpg&hash=83fcae97089226e5b5ebb7e83fc5f0e27075c4bd)
Here is the scene, brightened up a bit. As you can see, there is only one section that has the stasis field. Also, the other eggs look different to the ones in the stasis chamber.
Quote from: RoaryUK on Oct 27, 2007, 01:56:02 PM
Oh my, how some people forget these days, yet I distinctly remember a time when Aliens came out in 1986 and the distaste for the introduction of the Alien Queen. Ok, there was no internet back then, but there were plenty of other ways to communicate, like through the ALENS comics around at the time, and there were a LOT of people who felt that an Alien Queen who "layed eggs" seriously screwed with their vision of the originl ALIEN life-cycle.
The gripe back then was thie reproduction process just wasnt "alien" enough for some people, adding to the fact many even then new about the Dalllas/Brett cocoon sequence. Like today people asked questions such as "what happened to the other Space Jockeys?" and "Where do the eggs come from?", and when you think about it, what could be more alien than a creature that procreates using its victims, then that creation goes on to do something even more terriifying. On reflectiom, the introduction of the Alien Queen was a straight foward answer to the aliens life-cycle, to which those who shook their heads at have accepted over the years, partly because the cocoon sequence (which should never have been removed IMO) was by then considered canon.
And now we have a "similar" thing all over again, only this time the reproduction process is a direct result of the new creature, a Predailen who is presumably a Queen able to bypass the egg-laying and facehugging stages in favour of implanting her victims herself. If this is what the Strauss Brothers meant by taking the Alien part back to its roots I have to say I absolutlely love this idea. Its a disgusting... almost like being face-hugged but you (presumably) know its coming... and if its done as a requirement of the Aliens life-cycle and the start of something, Im quite happy with it. But thats the thing isnt it.... are we seeing (in Pic 4) the beginning of a completely new alien reproduction process thats related only to the predator, which isnt a bad idea, it'l be interesting to see how it pans out as we know there are Huggers in the movie, and that one of them is different to those seen in the Red Band trailer.
As for the design of the Predalien, I think its ok, but Im with most peoples gripes so wont go into that. But I do feel assuming this is a Queen, the creature just isnt BIG enough and should not be a man in a suite at all. Its also too Predator-like, and too different from the original Alien Queen for my liking. You'd have thought for example the Predalien Queen would also have 4 arms like the original, which has nothing to do with it been born from a human (Ripley in Alien 3) so why should it be any diferent from a Predator?
Just one last comment before I sign off.....is the Predalien actually a "hybrid"?? Ok I know what your saying, but think about it ok! If thi is the same creature from the first AVP, then how can it be a hybrid when its actually part of the Aliens own life cycle?? The Queen from ALIEN3 and probably ALIIENS too were born the same way, yet they are not classed as hybrid, and all this despite the fact we all know being hybrid means any kind of cross-breed or something made up from a variety of sources. As far as we know from AvP the Predalien Queen was created via a host like any other alien, only the embryo is different, and pressumably requires the supposed DNA reflex theory to develoip. If this is the case, shoudnt the new creature simply be the "Predalien Queen"?
Maybe there is more to this "new" creature than meets the eye.. we'll have to wait and see....
That post was made of pure "yes."
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 02:11:57 PM
[...] Please don't take that badly, I'm just trying to debate here. :P
No worries man...it's all good... ;D
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 02:11:57 PM
No, as I explained, your answers just are not very logical.
They are as logical as can be given the limited information we have on the subject matter... ;)
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 02:11:57 PM
[...] They have to be dead alien eggs otherwise there is no reason for the Space Jockey to use a stasis field.
I think the Space Jockey's used the stasis fields to protect themselves from the eggs while they moved around down there...makes more sense to me than keeping them alive for countless millennia...
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 02:18:14 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb290%2FBartleby24%2Feggchamberbmp.jpg&hash=83fcae97089226e5b5ebb7e83fc5f0e27075c4bd)
Here is the scene, brightened up a bit. As you can see, there is only one section that has the stasis field. Also, the other eggs look different to the ones in the stasis chamber.
Right...and they look so different, that they
are something different...not deformed eggs...plus they look bigger than Kane's whole body, let alone the size of alien eggs...
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 02:08:30 PM
Quote from: RoaryUK on Oct 27, 2007, 01:56:02 PMAs for the design of the Predalien, I think its ok, but Im with most peoples gripes so wont go into that. But I do feel assuming this is a Queen, the creature just isnt BIG enough and should not be a man in a suite at all. Its also too Predator-like, and too different from the original Alien Queen for my liking. You'd have thought for example the Predalien Queen would also have 4 arms like the original, which has nothing to do with it been born from a human (Ripley in Alien 3) so why should it be any diferent from a Predator?
Just one last comment before I sign off.....is the Predalien actually a "hybrid"?? Ok I know what your saying, but think about it ok! If thi is the same creature from the the first AVP, then how can it be a hybrid when its actually part of the Aliens own life cycle?? The Queen from ALIEN3 and probably ALIIENS too were born the same way, yet they are not classed as hybrid, and all this despite the fact we all know being hybrid means any kind of cross-breed or something made up from a variety of sources. As far as we know, the Alien Queen is created via a host the same as any alien, only the embryo is different, and pressumably requires the supposed DNA reflex theory to develoip, if this is the case shoudnt the new creature simply be the "Predalien Queen?
There is no evidence whatsoever from the movies to back up the idea that the Queen embryo doesn't take DNA traits from it's host. The only reason why we have seen the same overall Queen design is that they were all born from humans.
I know Im not disputing the DNA reflex theory, what I was suggesting was if this Predalien is a Queen shouldnt it look a bit more like the original instead of being too Predator-like. With respect to some of the theories that have been tossed around some of these boards, I think its highly unlikely the embryo doesn't take traits from its host, especially if you consider this might be some form of biological weapon. I hope they get round to answering ths one day but it probably wont happen because, as many have said anyway, that will only open a completely different can of worms....and we've seen what a mess FOX can make already.
QuoteI think the Space Jockey's used the stasis fields to protect themselves from the eggs while they moved around down there...makes more sense to me than keeping them alive for countless millennia...
But how could that field protect them?
When cane is falling down to the eggs nothing happens to him either.
I go with the other possibility, namely that this field keeps the eggs fresh and in a good shape, in 1979 it was meant to be that the creature only lives 24 hours or a couple of days and then dies, so it would be logical that the blue field keeps them alive longer.
Quotenot deformed eggs...plus they look bigger than Kane's whole body, let alone the size of alien eggs...
Yes, they
are eggs, this is a mattepainting, and the skale is a little bit big, but those are eggs.
Just because the filmmakers did a shitty job on that one doesnt mean those are not eggs, you can clearly see it.
whats is a movie with nothing new in it?
I've only read up to page 32 so far, so I don't know how the argument has developed from there yet, but I was thinking about why a Queen wouldn't go around regurgetating rather than laying eggs, and maybe it's because once it matures into a full grown, egg laying queen, it looses this regurgetating ability, maybe grows out of it and it is only to tide it over until it can lay eggs? Sort of like it being hard/impossible for women to become pregnant after a certain age? Just a thought.
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 27, 2007, 02:26:59 PM
But how could that field protect them?
I can think of countless explanations, here's one; Maybe the field blocks the movement sensors the eggs have which allows them to locate and lock-on to a target... ;)
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 27, 2007, 02:26:59 PM
[...] in 1979 it was meant to be that the creature only lives 24 hours or a couple of days and then dies, so it would be logical that the blue field keeps them alive longer.
Yes...the creature it spawned was meant to only live 24 hours...not the eggs themselves... :P
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 27, 2007, 02:30:12 PM
[...] you can clearly see it.
I don't pretend to know what you clearly see...but all I see are circular objects...not ovals...and wasn't it you that told me once awhile back that you can't use production excuses to explain canon? :P
QuoteI can think of countless explanations, here's one; Maybe the field blocks the movement sensors the eggs have which allows them to locate and lock-on to a target..
Very cheap one... i´ll stick by mine. :P
QuoteYes...the creature it spawned was meant to only live 24 hours...not the eggs themselves..
How long does the eggs then live, 12 hours? :P
Quotebut all I see are circular objects...not ovals...and wasn't it you that told me once awhile back that you can't use production excuses to explain canon?
Thats right, but in this case you can see that those are
supposed to be eggs.
Quote from: RoaryUK on Oct 27, 2007, 02:23:54 PM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 02:08:30 PM
Quote from: RoaryUK on Oct 27, 2007, 01:56:02 PMAs for the design of the Predalien, I think its ok, but Im with most peoples gripes so wont go into that. But I do feel assuming this is a Queen, the creature just isnt BIG enough and should not be a man in a suite at all. Its also too Predator-like, and too different from the original Alien Queen for my liking. You'd have thought for example the Predalien Queen would also have 4 arms like the original, which has nothing to do with it been born from a human (Ripley in Alien 3) so why should it be any diferent from a Predator?
Just one last comment before I sign off.....is the Predalien actually a "hybrid"?? Ok I know what your saying, but think about it ok! If thi is the same creature from the the first AVP, then how can it be a hybrid when its actually part of the Aliens own life cycle?? The Queen from ALIEN3 and probably ALIIENS too were born the same way, yet they are not classed as hybrid, and all this despite the fact we all know being hybrid means any kind of cross-breed or something made up from a variety of sources. As far as we know, the Alien Queen is created via a host the same as any alien, only the embryo is different, and pressumably requires the supposed DNA reflex theory to develoip, if this is the case shoudnt the new creature simply be the "Predalien Queen?
There is no evidence whatsoever from the movies to back up the idea that the Queen embryo doesn't take DNA traits from it's host. The only reason why we have seen the same overall Queen design is that they were all born from humans.
I know Im not disputing the DNA reflex theory, what I was suggesting was if this Predalien is a Queen shouldnt it look a bit more like the original instead of being too Predator-like. With respect to some of the theories that have been tossed around some of these boards, I think its highly unlikely the embryo doesn't take traits from its host, especially if you consider this might be some form of biological weapon. I hope they get round to answering ths one day but it probably wont happen because, as many have said anyway, that will only open a completely different can of worms....and we've seen what a mess FOX can make already.
Again, we don't know how much traits the queen-embryo takes from it's host, and how much 'alien' traits it keeps. Actually, each Queen in every Alien film is different - the ones in A:R and AVP can be explained by the human dna mix and the intravenous drugs injected into her respectively, but still.
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 27, 2007, 02:30:12 PM
Quotenot deformed eggs...plus they look bigger than Kane's whole body, let alone the size of alien eggs...
Yes, they are eggs, this is a mattepainting, and the skale is a little bit big, but those are eggs.
Just because the filmmakers did a shitty job on that one doesnt mean those are not eggs, you can clearly see it.
The scale is fine - the eggs are closer to the camera, making them look larger.
yeah, every sequel must reinvent itself it worked for A1,2 and 3 and Predator movies too
thats what makes sequels great; reinvention if it is well made then it will be better then the previous/orginal version to some people for instance me; i liked Aliens better then Alien because of the action ,i didnt find anything scary or exiting in Alien well maybe a couple of scenes but it didnt really fit my taste. As for P2 i liked it but some things were made so corny, llowbudget-ish and it looked like it was older then P1; Predator could be shown in theatre's today becasue its a timeless movie, but enough ranting ;D
as i said above reinvention is good if made well and i think this is very original and iam very excited to see it on screen,
Quote from: Jukebox Joe on Oct 27, 2007, 02:33:01 PM
I've only read up to page 32 so far, so I don't know how the argument has developed from there yet, but I was thinking about why a Queen wouldn't go around regurgetating rather than laying eggs, and maybe it's because once it matures into a full grown, egg laying queen, it looses this regurgetating ability, maybe grows out of it and it is only to tide it over until it can lay eggs? Sort of like it being hard/impossible for women to become pregnant after a certain age? Just a thought.
....or maybe the Alien Queen begins by regurgetating then, when her nest is complete, she starts to lay eggs? I was thinking while watching ALIENS, the construction of the nest, all those eggs and that huge egg sack.... wouldnt they all be vunerable "unless" the Queen was somehow able to defnd herself in the early stages?? Remeber in ALIENS Ripley was able to destroy the nest alone, so whos to say, with the right equipment, any survivors from Hadleys Hope couldnt have done the same thing?
Assuming that the Predalien in this film is not the same one that came from Scar, I have a theory.
It's not a Queen. It's an artificial substitute, created by the Predators for a more efficient hunt. Instead of giving birth, it impregnates others. In a word, it could be an artificially created King, using a Predator as a host.
Think about it. This is obviously a creature that is a little more than just Predator + Regular Alien. If it's not laying eggs, it's (we're all mature individuals here) "ejaculating" into the faces of it's victims to create more of it's own kind. That sounds more like a trait one would find in a "male" of the species (the queen being "female"). Also, it would be so much easier for the Predators to cart around one being that can impregnate prey many times than a large number of eggs that can only do so once, and it also considerably lowers the rate of risk for it's transportation. In other words, it'd be easier to monitor the one Predalien than it would be to guard all of those eggs.
This is just a theory, and it's probably not true. I don't ask that anyone agrees, disagrees, nor likes or dislikes the idea.
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 27, 2007, 02:35:24 PM
Very cheap one... i´ll stick by mine. :P
That's cool bro'...I'm not trying to change your mind...but how is it cheap? It's just as plausible as keeping them 'fresh'...
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 27, 2007, 02:35:24 PM
How long does the eggs then live, 12 hours? :P
I say forever... ;D
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 27, 2007, 02:35:24 PM
Thats right, but in this case you can see that those are supposed to be eggs.
I guess we'll have to leave that to personal opinion then, until proven otherwise... :)
Quote from: Gates on Oct 27, 2007, 02:33:25 PM
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 27, 2007, 02:26:59 PM
But how could that field protect them?
I can think of countless explanations, here's one; Maybe the field blocks the movement sensors the eggs have which allows them to locate and lock-on to a target... ;)
Ok then, how did the facehugger sense Kane then?
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 02:44:07 PM
Ok then, how did the facehugger sense Kane then?
He entered the stasis field or rather, fell in...
Quote from: Gates on Oct 27, 2007, 02:45:08 PM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 02:44:07 PM
Ok then, how did the facehugger sense Kane then?
He entered the stasis field or rather, fell in...
You said the stasis field stops the eggs detecting movement. So how did Kane entering the stasis field stop that function?
QuoteIt's just as plausible as keeping them 'fresh'...
Fresh is more plausible for
me.
QuoteI say forever... ;D
Ahh, come on... ;) ;D
QuoteI guess we'll have to leave that to personal opinion then
Fair game.
Quoteuntil proven otherwise...
We both know that this will never happen, some secrets should stay secrets then.
I like the reproduction method alot. Its Alien AND something new. Thank god the Brothers didnt went with the Newborn-being-born shit.
But, like always, people disagree with this method. A month ago everyone agreed that Egg Morphing would look like shit ( hence the reason it was cut from Alien ) but NOW this method is shit and everyone wants the egg morphing back. People really have to make up there minds. Thank god Colin is posting here ... give the guys a break. Not everything in this movie can be designed the way YOU want it to be ... Accept it and move on. Thats all you gotta do instead of being awake in bed in the middle of the night crying to yourself how BAD this movie is when you HAVENT even seen it!
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 02:46:52 PM
You said the stasis field stops the eggs detecting movement.
Right...it stops the eggs from detecting movement from outside the field...and as soon as he fell in he was fair game...
Ah thanks Gates for clearing that up for me ;)
Never knew what the hell happened. *hats off*
I dont see whats so horrible about this concept. This is just another display of the Alien's uncanny ability to adapt. Makes sense. If there isnt a Queen to lay eggs, a dominant Alien will molt into one over time. The Predalien regurgitating in people's mouths is just the beginning stage of it's ability to reproduce.
Alien fanboys should dig this concept becouse it makes the Alien species even more risiliant.
Quote from: Horhey on Oct 27, 2007, 02:53:02 PM
I dont see whats so horrible about this concept. This is just another display of the Alien's uncanny ability to adapt. Makes sense. If there isnt a Queen to lay eggs, a dominant Alien will molt into one over time. The Predalien regurgitating in people's mouth's is just the beginning stage of it's ability to reproduce.
Alien fanboys should dig this concept becouse it makes the Alien species even more risiliant.
QFT!
Quote from: Gates on Oct 27, 2007, 02:50:05 PM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 02:46:52 PM
You said the stasis field stops the eggs detecting movement.
Right...it stops the eggs from detecting movement from outside the field...and as soon as he fell in he was fair game...
Yeah ok. But it still doesn't answer the question why the other sections didn't have fields. Wouldn't those eggs be able to detect movement too?
I think that it was a
stasis field - meaning it's purpose was to keep the eggs in suspended animation. When Kane entered, he broke the field and the eggs woke up.
Quote from: Horhey on Oct 27, 2007, 02:53:02 PM
I dont see whats so horrible about this concept. This is just another display of the Alien's uncanny ability to adapt. Makes sense. If there isnt a Queen to lay eggs, a dominant Alien will molt into one over time. The Predalien regurgitating in people's mouths is just the beginning stage of it's ability to reproduce.
Alien fanboys should dig this concept becouse it makes the Alien species even more risiliant.
That's what I've been trying to say all along. It is totally logical. But haters will be haters.
I would rather have seen how Predators reproduce . Oh well still like the idea tho .
Quote from: Horhey on Oct 27, 2007, 02:53:02 PM
I dont see whats so horrible about this concept. This is just another display of the Alien's uncanny ability to adapt. Makes sense. If there isnt a Queen to lay eggs, a dominant Alien will molt into one over time. The Predalien regurgitating in people's mouths is just the beginning stage of it's ability to reproduce.
Alien fanboys should dig this concept becouse it makes the Alien species even more risiliant.
I know, right?
Quote from: plasmacannon on Oct 27, 2007, 03:01:22 PM
I would rather have seen how Predators reproduce . Oh well still like the idea tho .
When a mommy Predator and a daddy Predator love each other very much... :P
why in the hell are you arguing about some "stasis field" ::) its pretty stupid when you are posting it on a totaly diffrent topic/subject :-\ make a new topic for it.
Quote from: Gremlien on Oct 27, 2007, 02:41:33 PM
Assuming that the Predalien in this film is not the same one that came from Scar, I have a theory.
It's not a Queen. It's an artificial substitute, created by the Predators for a more efficient hunt. Instead of giving birth, it impregnates others. In a word, it could be an artificially created King, using a Predator as a host.
Think about it. This is obviously a creature that is a little more than just Predator + Regular Alien. If it's not laying eggs, it's (we're all mature individuals here) "ejaculating" into the faces of it's victims to create more of it's own kind. That sounds more like a trait one would find in a "male" of the species (the queen being "female"). Also, it would be so much easier for the Predators to cart around one being that can impregnate prey many times than a large number of eggs that can only do so once, and it also considerably lowers the rate of risk for it's transportation. In other words, it'd be easier to monitor the one Predalien than it would be to guard all of those eggs.
This is just a theory, and it's probably not true. I don't ask that anyone agrees, disagrees, nor likes or dislikes the idea.
Yeah I tend to agree mostly, this probably isnt a Queen but something the Predators constructed, only I believe it probably wasnt meant to reproduce other aliens but instead other QUEENS, and lots of them too. If you think about it, over the course of 4 movies, the Alien has proved to be a very resourceful creature, but the missing link has always been the Queen and where and how she cames to be .....I doubt this is it but it could be....and it would also make it a KING, but as I said I doubt it
Quote from: SyntaX on Oct 27, 2007, 02:52:25 PM
Ah thanks Gates for clearing that up for me ;)
Never knew what the hell happened. *hats off*
Anytime...only problem is that it's not canon, so-to-speak...to my knowledge it's never really explained...that's just my attempt at some kind of random explanation...'cuz I'm cool like that... 8)
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 02:57:13 PM
Yeah ok. But it still doesn't answer the question why the other sections didn't have fields. Wouldn't those eggs be able to detect movement too?
I don't think those are alien eggs...I could be 100% wrong...but that's just me... ;D
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 02:57:13 PM
I think that it was a stasis field - meaning it's purpose was to keep the eggs in suspended animation. When Kane entered, he broke the field and the eggs woke up.
I admit, your explanation is just as good as mine and you could be right...but ultimately who knows for sure? Both of our explanations could be right...it's just a matter of opinion and which one we individually prefer... :)
Quote from: karhan on Oct 27, 2007, 03:02:52 PM
why in the hell are you arguing about some "stasis field" ::) its pretty stupid when you are posting it on a totaly diffrent topic/subject :-\ make a new topic for it.
I had to bring it up to argue that eggs weren't immortal, which ties in with why the Queen could not always keep an egg with a queen-embryo in it, in case she dies. Which leads to the theory about random eggs containing facehuggers with queen-embryos, which makes no sense because then there would be two queens to compete in the hive.
I know I sound like an idiot but I just am trying to get the facts strait..... the predalien is going to throwup a embryo into another humen?? and that becomes a chestburster?? so ther is baiscly not going to be a queen in this one? can someone please just lay it out for me cause I'm confused about the new life reproduction method
I think you're all forgeting one thing. The brothers didn't came up with that idea just for the sake of something new. They had to do it, because of the plot. I mean, how do you expect the town to be overrun by dozens of aliens? Egg laying/morphing would take a lot of time and will make the Predalien too vulnerable.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 01:44:36 PM
QuoteWell your idea makes even less sense than barfing. What if there is no Queen? Then you have no royal jelly.
Quote
Royal jelly doesn't come from a Queen. Worker bees secrete it.
Now your idea is getting even worse. If every alien can secrete the royal jelly, why don't they all become queens?
Y'know, just for starters, I want to iterate that my preferred method isn't something I claim is in the movies. As I said, Alien 3 puts paid to it. It's just how I wished they'd handled it.
Regardless of that, "every Alien" wouldn't become a Queen for the same reason not every worker bee becomes a Queen.
Because that's not how it works. The Aliens have a structure to their society, and I was merely saying that it may...excuse me,
could have been made to follow the bee template in other ways too.
But y'know...the puke thing is good too.
Quote from: Gates on Oct 27, 2007, 03:05:50 PM
Quote from: SyntaX on Oct 27, 2007, 02:52:25 PM
Ah thanks Gates for clearing that up for me ;)
Never knew what the hell happened. *hats off*
Anytime...only problem is that it's not canon, so-to-speak...to my knowledge it's never really explained...that's just my attempt at some kind of random explanation...'cuz I'm cool like that... 8)
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 02:57:13 PM
Yeah ok. But it still doesn't answer the question why the other sections didn't have fields. Wouldn't those eggs be able to detect movement too?
I don't think those are alien eggs...I could be 100% wrong...but that's just me... ;D
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 02:57:13 PM
I think that it was a stasis field - meaning it's purpose was to keep the eggs in suspended animation. When Kane entered, he broke the field and the eggs woke up.
I admit, your explanation is just as good as mine and you could be right...but ultimately who knows for sure? Both of our explanations could be right...it's just a matter of opinion and which one we individually prefer... :)
Ah, we have come to an impasse. ;)
But there is strong evidence to support that they are eggs. They look like eggs. Even Ripley says of Kane's description - "he said there were thousands of eggs there...". There weren't thousands of eggs in that tiny section he was in.
Ok, i havent read all the posts on this thread..but assuming the predalien is a queen....and its the same predalien from the end of the original avp movie, then why were the aliens still trying to kill the scar predator carrying the queen? because surely that would conflict with ripley carrying the queen in alien 3?...ive also had another notion, not that it has anything to do with this thread, but if scar had survived the previous movie, surely he would have been exiled for teaming up with a human, detonating his self destruct dishonourably and thus destroying their ancient training ground and also losing the shoulder cannon which basically seemed like his main objective to get going into the temple?
There was a thread that i made that already solved this
"The queens survival is priority number 1 when her life is threatened"
alright I guess I got it now, but I'm going to not let it get to me cause I still have a lot of faith in this movie that these guys won't screw it up, but this i'm a little worried about I hope it dosn't come off as some stupid thing that they had to do cause of no queen but we will just have to see
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 02:58:59 PM
Quote from: Horhey on Oct 27, 2007, 02:53:02 PM
I dont see whats so horrible about this concept. This is just another display of the Alien's uncanny ability to adapt. Makes sense. If there isnt a Queen to lay eggs, a dominant Alien will molt into one over time. The Predalien regurgitating in people's mouths is just the beginning stage of it's ability to reproduce.
Alien fanboys should dig this concept becouse it makes the Alien species even more risiliant.
That's what I've been trying to say all along. It is totally logical. But haters will be haters.
I dont remember alot of Alien fanboys bitching this much about Paul Anderson's abomination, which makes me wonder what their underlying motive is for spending hours a day/7days a week dawging every trivial and imaginary flaw in this movie.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 03:18:30 PM
Ah, we have come to an impasse. ;)
I always knew we would...it was inevitable... :)
Quote from: covcraig on Oct 27, 2007, 03:18:57 PM
Ok, i havent read all the posts on this thread..but assuming the predalien is a queen....and its the same predalien from the end of the original avp movie, then why were the aliens still trying to kill the scar predator carrying the queen? because surely that would conflict with ripley carrying the queen in alien 3? [...]
That's a very interesting point...I can't wait to see how the Defenders of Regurgitation,
D.O.R.s, are going to work their way around that one... ::)
I understand where the Alien fans are coming it really isn't right to mess around with ones' favorite alien. they already messed up the design, the pred-alien looks retarded the aliens may have regained some bio-mech look but not without making them more different than avp did (not talking about ridged heads). So now they tell us that the reproduction system has been messed with a lot in this film. Leave theri alien alone and don't mess with it, it already has been sh** on enough.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 09:12:54 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 26, 2007, 09:12:11 PM
We've never seen this time period in a hives or Queens life so its an open field
Exactly my point.
Sorry I'm late, but Queens don't have two reproductive cycles and, according to
Alien Resurrection, they need to be fully grown to produce eggs...And I mean FULLY GROWN, like with her crown the size of a human... The scene with Perez, Wren and Gediman is very clear about that... And enough is said... ::)
I'm not impartial to this new life cycle addition. As long as it is pulled off well it's fine by me. I just don't want the Predalien vomiting on someones face.
I don't think it breaks continuity or anything as far as I know (but I'm not an expert on all things Alien), so it's kind of interesting to see what a Young Queen does to make new Aliens when it can't make eggs yet.
Quote from: Gates on Oct 27, 2007, 03:29:47 PM
Quote from: covcraig on Oct 27, 2007, 03:18:57 PM
Ok, i havent read all the posts on this thread..but assuming the predalien is a queen....and its the same predalien from the end of the original avp movie, then why were the aliens still trying to kill the scar predator carrying the queen? because surely that would conflict with ripley carrying the queen in alien 3? [...]
That's a very interesting point...I can't wait to see how the Defenders of Regurgitation, D.O.R.s, are going to work their way around that one... ::)
What to work their way out of? It was just another stupid Anderson goof-up.
Quote from: Hybrid on Oct 27, 2007, 03:17:35 PM
I know I sound like an idiot but I just am trying to get the facts strait..... the predalien is going to throwup a embryo into another humen?? and that becomes a chestburster?? so ther is baiscly not going to be a queen in this one? can someone please just lay it out for me cause I'm confused about the new life reproduction method
I dont know but Im assuming thats it. The only Huggers we've seen so far are the ones from the crashed ship, which are pretty much the same ones from the previous AvP and a picture released a while ago of a very different Hugger attached to someone (dunno who) This creature I suspect is produced by the Predalien, the thing is HOW if it does indeed regurgiatate into its victims? Unless this is the process by which the victim is morphed into an egg and THATS where the Hugger comes from, meaning the new Hugger might be capable of implanting mulitple hosts. Apart from the suggestion I posted a few pages back, the only other thing I can think of is, while the Predalien is attractng so much obvious attention, maybe its actually the HUGGER thats the key. Could this be what the Preds created and is capable of creating multiple Queens, Alien Queens that are of a new type and one is now loose on Earth .....the possibilities are truly endless, lets just hope they get it right.
Quote from: Predator-S on Oct 27, 2007, 03:35:45 PM
What to work their way out of? It was just another stupid Anderson goof-up.
Bullsh!t...I blame the man for a great many things from that film...but he didn't make it a Queen...your beloved Strauses did that all on their own...
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 26, 2007, 09:56:35 PM
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 26, 2007, 09:53:46 PM
Well, seeing as how Sil is a way bigger Alien fan than either of you, and has probably listened to the commentary more than you, I'll go with him.
That is a cheap explanation, im one of the worlds biggest predfans (yes, i can say that), but sometimes i make mistakes about them too.
And YES, he´s wrong on that one, i remember it clearly.
Sorry, guys, the 'rape' scene was regarding Lambert's 'impaling' with the tail the Alien did...
There is no actual rape going on, especially one where he leaves it's victim DEAD... ::)
So, so much for your ' precursor regurgitating embryos Alien scene' there...
The AR movie states it clearly... And we know that only full-grown Queens can lay eggs...
Also, I find hilarious that a Queen would have two reproductory cycles so close to eachother, one through the mouth, the other through the back...And people thinking this is not the dumbest idea acrosss all Alien movies...
It is biologically impossible, alien or no alien, to have two completely different ways of laying embryos, one through the mouth, and one through the back, with eggs containing embryo-carriers and layers...
But again, AR clearly shows there's no prelude cycle to the egg one... So Colin should have seen AR more times... This IS a continuity disaster... and easily proven...
People, especially young directors, have to understand that no matter how motivated they are to leave their imprint, they are bound by continuity (what precedes it, the originals) and must oblige by it... Otherwise, this will happen...
This is far worse than the Newborn or even the Queen with dual reproductory cycles, because they had credibility within AR... This is just pure brain-farting and the whole movie won't be able to disguise the awful smell of it... ::) :o
Quote from: Gates on Oct 27, 2007, 03:38:43 PM
Quote from: Predator-S on Oct 27, 2007, 03:35:45 PM
What to work their way out of? It was just another stupid Anderson goof-up.
Bullsh!t...I blame the man for a great many things from that film...but he didn't make it a Queen...your beloved Strauses did that all on their own...
There was already a Queen. And the Predator was a big menace itself, so they didin't want to risk. But on the other hand I'm still not quite sure if the Predalien was
born a Queen.
*Tosses embryos at everyone* Swallow them, swallow them! ::)
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Oct 27, 2007, 03:51:39 PM
This is far worse than the Newborn or even the Queen with dual reproductory cycles, because they had credibility in AR... This is just pure brain-farting and the whole movie won't be able to disguise the awful smell of it... ::) :o
It starts somewhere. Its never a fast thing, its always a gradual "why not?" type of thing with lack of instinct. Id say that hybrid from alien 3 was genius compared to the horrendously open minded ideas that came after.
Its like
EROSION. Next thing you know youre saga has ridiculous ideas in them and you dont know how they got there.
Quote from: Predator-S on Oct 27, 2007, 03:54:34 PM
[...] But on the other hand I'm still not quite sure if the Predalien was born a Queen.
And that's another problem altogether...
Quote from: echobbase79 on Oct 26, 2007, 08:52:52 PM
Some weather we're having in the mountains.
My favorite quote of the whole thread!!!! ROFL
First off i highlight a simple point and now its cause Anderson f**ked the film up, just like the french fag ruined alien resurrection?
The details we have lie in the story...and when does an alien become a queen? you are either born like that or your not, i think everyone is getting too hyped on a small factor of this film (being the supposed embryo planting scene) and getting to obsessed with the predalien, its ALIENS VS PREDATOR not PREDALIEN VS PREDATOR.
Who cares if its a queen or not? they are all gonna be wiped out at the end of the movie more or less anyway with maybe weyland yutani getting a specimen thus making a backstory to alien
Also, I find hilarious that a Queen would have two reproductory cycles so close to eachother, one through the mouth, the other through the back...And people thinking this is not the dumbest idea acrosss all Alien movies...
It is biologically impossible, alien or no alien, to have two completely different ways of laying embryos, one through the mouth, and one through the back, with eggs containing embryo-carriers and layers...
This is far worse than the Newborn or even the Queen with dual reproductory cycles, because they had credibility in AR... This is just pure brain-farting and the whole movie won't be able to disguise the awful smell of it... ::)
If thats the case how do you explain how a lone alien can survive to procreate in the beginning? Its been suggested before that a lone Alien could STING its victim and so turn it into an egg to begin the process, if that was one day shown why not the same for the Alien Queen if her eggs were destroyed, or maybe the STING theory doesnt require a host at all....a prime example being the "egg on the Sulaco theory" for Alien 3
Maybe this is how the Predalien vomiting will come off. :D
Quote from: RoaryUK on Oct 27, 2007, 04:06:48 PM
a prime example being the "egg on the Sulaco theory" for Alien 3
That was a blooper, plain and simple. Theories on this need to cease imo.
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 27, 2007, 04:09:49 PM
Quote from: RoaryUK on Oct 27, 2007, 04:06:48 PM
a prime example being the "egg on the Sulaco theory" for Alien 3
That was a blooper, plain and simple. Theories on this need to cease imo.
Hmmm... was it a blooper though? If you watch ALIENS right to the end you hear a Face-Hugger scuttling in the background, so obviously thats what Cameraon intended and I reckon he had an idea for it. Sure it wasnt explained, and to a point I agree FOX wanted a sequel so they just put the eg there..... but that doesnt mean it cant be explained. Maybe some would rightly argue it shouldnt be because thats what makes it Alien.....in effect I guess you could say its a blooper tha doesnt have to be but if we know why then...well... I guess you know what I mean
Quote from: RoaryUK on Oct 27, 2007, 04:18:37 PM
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 27, 2007, 04:09:49 PM
Quote from: RoaryUK on Oct 27, 2007, 04:06:48 PM
a prime example being the "egg on the Sulaco theory" for Alien 3
That was a blooper, plain and simple. Theories on this need to cease imo.
Hmmm... was it a blooper though? If you watch ALIENS right to the end you hear a Face-Hugger scuttling in the background, so obviously thats what Cameraon intended and I reckon he had an idea for it. Sure it wasnt explained, and to a point I agree FOX wanted a sequel so they just put the eg there..... but that doesnt mean it cant be explained.....maybe some would rightly argue it shouldnt be because thats what makes it Alien.
[/quote
REALLY!!!! Are you positive??? That plot hole has always annoyed me!
Quote from: RoaryUK on Oct 27, 2007, 04:18:37 PM
Hmmm... was it a blooper though?
Let me think......
YES lol. The commentary plainly states they didnt think anyone would think about the egg too much. Its a good film overall, but they simply werent sharp there.
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 27, 2007, 04:21:57 PM
Quote from: RoaryUK on Oct 27, 2007, 04:18:37 PM
Hmmm... was it a blooper though?
Let me think......
YES lol. The commentary plainly states they didnt think anyone would think about the egg too much. Its a good film overall, but they simply werent sharp there.
When it first came out that's what people really jumped on.
It's annoying. Eggs from thin air?
Quote from: echobbase79 on Oct 27, 2007, 04:23:49 PM
When it first came out that's what people really jumped on.
Ashame.. the deaths and that were the "issues" some found. I found that film to be quite smart.
Someone on the board came with a theory that the Queen layed that egg.
But how can that be when she lost her sack? That doesn't sound right at all.
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 27, 2007, 04:26:03 PM
Quote from: echobbase79 on Oct 27, 2007, 04:23:49 PM
When it first came out that's what people really jumped on.
Ashame.. the deaths and that were the "issues" some found. I found that film to be quite smart.
Its my favorite Alien film.
Quote from: echobbase79 on Oct 27, 2007, 04:27:12 PM
Someone on the board came with a theory that the Queen layed that egg.
But how can that be when she lost her sack? That doesn't sound right at all.
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too. And she didn't have much time either.
Unless she threw it up! ;)
Yet another adittion to the life-cycle revealed :D
Quote from: echobbase79 on Oct 27, 2007, 04:27:49 PM
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 27, 2007, 04:26:03 PM
Quote from: echobbase79 on Oct 27, 2007, 04:23:49 PM
When it first came out that's what people really jumped on.
Ashame.. the deaths and that were the "issues" some found. I found that film to be quite smart.
Its my favorite Alien film.
Fincher decided to pull back on where a sequel couldve been headed: action overload, and Im glad he did. He held out at least 1 film longer. Thank you, brave soldier lol *salutes Fincher
I have an answer to everyone's question:
There was an original scene for the opening in A3 that showed one of the producers slowly shitting an egg out, it was cut out though because it was too disturbing.
P.S
It was the producers of Alien3 that took control of the film, and that's what ruined it.
I was glad that he took such chances with the story. Killing Hicks and Newt took some balls, and it works in the context of the story because everybody that you like in that movie dies too. I thought Dillion would've lived. Nope! I thought Ripley would've lived. Nope!
The only one that survived was the guy "that made a deal with God to live forever." ;) I loved all the religious symbolism as well.
A great film that took awhile for most people to appreciate it.
I don't care to put much thought in to thinking where the Egg came from really. I thought Alien 3 was a really good film + espec liked the opening credits of the film (espec with the scoring it had). I don't know that i even questioned where the Egg came from (or rather how it got on the ship) but i don't think i really need to. I just accept that it was there + that's it.
As for the new Re-production method. I think i mentioned before that i'm starting to dig it quite a bit. I know it's different that what we've had in the past but i don't find that to be a problem @ all. It's a new + interesting idea (+ creepy as hell). I know it's a controversial topic but it won't be affecting my enjoyment of the movie.
"It is biologically impossible, alien or no alien, to have two completely different ways of laying embryos, one through the mouth, and one through the back, with eggs containing embryo-carriers and layers..."
Another classic quote from yutaniditch, you read it here first people, Fictional aliens cannot, i repeat not have 2 different ways of laying embryo's...... Its proven....in science..................somewhere............?
Can someone update wikipedea please?
We all know what happens after someone tries to sequel Camerons expertise in balancing action and story: they get it dead wrong and end up with an explosion mess.
So I found Fincher and the enterprise in general to have much more brains than most directors.
Quote from: WisePredator on Oct 27, 2007, 04:35:21 PM
I have an answer to everyone's question:
There was an original scene for the opening in A3 that showed one of the producers slowly shitting an egg out, it was cut out though because it was too disturbing.
ROFL I'm actually iamginating that. HAHAHHAHAHAH :D
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 27, 2007, 04:40:52 PM
We all know what happens after someone tries to sequel Camerons expertise in balancing action and story: they get it dead wrong and end up with an explosion mess.
So I found Fincher and the enterprise in general to have much more brains than most directors.
Exactly!!! It makes you think and I like that kind of storytelling. But that's the kind of filmmaker Fincher is. :)
The story telling was excellent in Alien 3. It revolved heavily on the characters themselves + not the Alien creature. Why most people felt disappointed is because they were expecting Aliens Pt 2 + instead were given something entirely different.
And the main problem with this is that almost everyone wants AVP to be Aliens - with a few Predators maybe.
AvP: R won't give us any of that kind of filmmaking either, but I don't expect it to. Its a monster movie, plain and simple. It's more about the action than the drama. I'm not calling it mindless entertainment, but if you know your monster movies you should know what I mean.
A good example of a well made monster movie is 30 Days of Night. Good filmmaking and well acted but it wasn't that deep.
Indeed. I mean i would like a movie that is as good as Aliens. Of course i would like a movie that is as good as Alien 3 also. Just because the two are drastically different doesn't mean they can't both be great. AvP-R does not have to be Aliens, it just has to be a quality movie. The film still has great potential in my mind as i have not been opposed to many of the "controversial" issues such as this new re-production method, the Pred's new Weapons + the design of the Predalien. The small American town setting is my only grippe with the film but i'm not about to hold a grudge as long as it all works out nicely.
Quote from: echobbase79 on Oct 27, 2007, 04:50:00 PM
AvP: R won't give us any of that kind of film making either, but I don't expect it to. Its a monster movie, plain and simple. It's more about the action than the drama. I'm not calling it mindless entertainment, but if you know your monster movies you should know what I mean.
See I just find that a defeatist attitude. We all know a VS movie is usually stupid. The best film makers are the ones who take a dead idea and spin it on its head: smarter, much like how the franchise started all those years ago.
The safest way to get this franchise back is to split it up, but this way IS possible, just not any time soon.
It's not a defeatist attitude. I think for the material that has been given to them they've done some pretty good work. Hell this might be better than any of them. I don't know, you don't know because we haven't seen the movie yet.
As I've gotten older I don't like the VS idea anymore. Freddy vs Jason sucked too. I see how it causes problems. And I don't want a AvP 3. AvP: R should be the final word on the subject IMO.
Quote from: echobbase79 on Oct 27, 2007, 04:59:25 PM
Hell this might be better than any of them, I don't know, you don't know.
Even the stock market doesnt work on absolutes. Just careful predictions :P
And the odds of this being the best film in the entire franchise is like 5% lol.
True. ;)
still, its 5%. im going to give this thing a chance and say its a good idea, but it has to be pulled off right, or its all ruind
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 27, 2007, 05:00:52 PM
Quote from: echobbase79 on Oct 27, 2007, 04:59:25 PM
Hell this might be better than any of them, I don't know, you don't know.
Even the stock market doesnt work on absolutes. Just careful predictions :P
And the odds of this being the best film in the entire franchise is like 5% lol.
For some it might turn out to be. I know people who think A:R is the best in the series lol.
It all depends on opinion.
Okay I'm just posting here for the sake of adding another "vote" to the side of the argument that I believe in.
manners aside, I'm with Sil and all of the people in that frame of mind. I don't want someone showing up thinking that the way to leave their mark is to change what we already like (the alien and it's life cycle). I want someone to leave their mark by proving they're creative enough to make something new and exciting without messing up what has already come before. Besides the only way to make these movies get better is to focus more on interesting realistic human characters rather than making newer watered down creatures (sorry chet, you could have been great ).
And now I see the poll at the top of the page read 57% LIKE the idea of Chet egg vomiting? I think I know why Sil reacted so negatively towards Colin. It's like our own community doesn't really understand what makes Alien so great! It's like our own community (on this board at least) is turning their backs on what we liked about Aliens. It's like waking up in the morning and finding out the lady you slept with from the bar is actually ugly!
I can't believe it but for all of it's warts and problems I think Paul Anderson's movie will probably be as good or better than this one (definitely from the standpoint of respect for source material).
Anyone who is on the "Sil" side has to be realizing that we probably lost our chance forever to get one final REALLY GOOD alien movie when FOX passed on James Cameron and Ridley Scott working together on Alien 5.......that still burns more than anything else ever will.
And before anyone jumps up with this "You don't like it, why don't you make your own movie" - well I hope to some day. That is my career goal (that and concept artist), I'm 24 and I haven't had a lucky break that would put me in the director's chair of anything with a budget but were the timetables to actually work out in my favor?...then I WOULD make a movie and respect what's good about aliens without stamping my ego on the project.
Jesus we need Ridley Scott now more than ever *sigh* :(
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 27, 2007, 03:18:25 PM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 01:44:36 PM
QuoteWell your idea makes even less sense than barfing. What if there is no Queen? Then you have no royal jelly.
Quote
Royal jelly doesn't come from a Queen. Worker bees secrete it.
Now your idea is getting even worse. If every alien can secrete the royal jelly, why don't they all become queens?
Y'know, just for starters, I want to iterate that my preferred method isn't something I claim is in the movies. As I said, Alien 3 puts paid to it. It's just how I wished they'd handled it.
Regardless of that, "every Alien" wouldn't become a Queen for the same reason not every worker bee becomes a Queen. Because that's not how it works. The Aliens have a structure to their society, and I was merely saying that it may...excuse me, could have been made to follow the bee template in other ways too.
But y'know...the puke thing is good too.
Bees appear to just randomly select an ordinary larvae to be a queen.
I prefer it if the dominant alien becomes the queen. That way it is genetically pre-determined. The best alien DNA gets passed on, creating a new batch of aliens which has a dominant alien again, etc, etc. So genetic improvements can happen. That is seen in biology, also.
It is kind of like a mixing of insect and mammal reproductive systems.
To Jenga: Nice post.
Make us proud in hollywood ;D
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 05:11:03 PM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 27, 2007, 03:18:25 PM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 01:44:36 PM
QuoteWell your idea makes even less sense than barfing. What if there is no Queen? Then you have no royal jelly.
Quote
Royal jelly doesn't come from a Queen. Worker bees secrete it.
Now your idea is getting even worse. If every alien can secrete the royal jelly, why don't they all become queens?
Y'know, just for starters, I want to iterate that my preferred method isn't something I claim is in the movies. As I said, Alien 3 puts paid to it. It's just how I wished they'd handled it.
Regardless of that, "every Alien" wouldn't become a Queen for the same reason not every worker bee becomes a Queen. Because that's not how it works. The Aliens have a structure to their society, and I was merely saying that it may...excuse me, could have been made to follow the bee template in other ways too.
But y'know...the puke thing is good too.
Bees appear to just randomly select an ordinary larvae to be a queen.
I prefer it if the dominant alien becomes the queen. That way it is genetically pre-determined. The best alien DNA gets passed on, creating a new batch of aliens which has a dominant alien again, etc, etc. So genetic improvements can happen. That is seen in biology, also.
It is kind of like a mixing of insect and mammal reproductive systems.
That's not a bad idea. I kinda dig it.
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Oct 27, 2007, 03:31:43 PM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 09:12:54 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 26, 2007, 09:12:11 PM
We've never seen this time period in a hives or Queens life so its an open field
Exactly my point.
Sorry I'm late, but Queens don't have two reproductive cycles and, according to Alien Resurrection, they need to be fully grown to produce eggs...And I mean FULLY GROWN, like with her crown the size of a human... The scene with Perez, Wren and Gediman is very clear about that... And enough is said... ::)
The Queen was captive so she never got a chance to use another reproductive system.
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Oct 27, 2007, 03:51:39 PM
Also, I find hilarious that a Queen would have two reproductory cycles so close to eachother, one through the mouth, the other through the back...And people thinking this is not the dumbest idea acrosss all Alien movies...
It is biologically impossible, alien or no alien, to have two completely different ways of laying embryos, one through the mouth, and one through the back, with eggs containing embryo-carriers and layers...
Chet starts out as a normal alien - he doesn't morph into a queen until later. So it is not using two reproductive systems at the same time.
so where did the aliens come from in AVPR??? theres no sign of a queen rite?
I'm all confused about this part. because i saw that facehuggers came from tubes in the trailer, I cant pass judgement yet because there were only 2 that we saw in the trailer but hey, there might be more. so did the preds capture the facehuggers or what?? where did they come from? im sure we'll see it in the movie but for now its confusing.
Quote from: Aeus on Oct 27, 2007, 05:13:33 PM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 05:11:03 PM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 27, 2007, 03:18:25 PM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 01:44:36 PM
QuoteWell your idea makes even less sense than barfing. What if there is no Queen? Then you have no royal jelly.
Quote
Royal jelly doesn't come from a Queen. Worker bees secrete it.
Now your idea is getting even worse. If every alien can secrete the royal jelly, why don't they all become queens?
Y'know, just for starters, I want to iterate that my preferred method isn't something I claim is in the movies. As I said, Alien 3 puts paid to it. It's just how I wished they'd handled it.
Regardless of that, "every Alien" wouldn't become a Queen for the same reason not every worker bee becomes a Queen. Because that's not how it works. The Aliens have a structure to their society, and I was merely saying that it may...excuse me, could have been made to follow the bee template in other ways too.
But y'know...the puke thing is good too.
Bees appear to just randomly select an ordinary larvae to be a queen.
I prefer it if the dominant alien becomes the queen. That way it is genetically pre-determined. The best alien DNA gets passed on, creating a new batch of aliens which has a dominant alien again, etc, etc. So genetic improvements can happen. That is seen in biology, also.
It is kind of like a mixing of insect and mammal reproductive systems.
That's not a bad idea. I kinda dig it.
It was Colin that mentioned it in one of his posts in this topic. I agree, that it is a good idea and elevates them above merely 'bugs'.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 05:19:09 PM
Quote from: Aeus on Oct 27, 2007, 05:13:33 PM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 05:11:03 PM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 27, 2007, 03:18:25 PM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 01:44:36 PM
QuoteWell your idea makes even less sense than barfing. What if there is no Queen? Then you have no royal jelly.
Quote
Royal jelly doesn't come from a Queen. Worker bees secrete it.
Now your idea is getting even worse. If every alien can secrete the royal jelly, why don't they all become queens?
Y'know, just for starters, I want to iterate that my preferred method isn't something I claim is in the movies. As I said, Alien 3 puts paid to it. It's just how I wished they'd handled it.
Regardless of that, "every Alien" wouldn't become a Queen for the same reason not every worker bee becomes a Queen. Because that's not how it works. The Aliens have a structure to their society, and I was merely saying that it may...excuse me, could have been made to follow the bee template in other ways too.
But y'know...the puke thing is good too.
Bees appear to just randomly select an ordinary larvae to be a queen.
I prefer it if the dominant alien becomes the queen. That way it is genetically pre-determined. The best alien DNA gets passed on, creating a new batch of aliens which has a dominant alien again, etc, etc. So genetic improvements can happen. That is seen in biology, also.
It is kind of like a mixing of insect and mammal reproductive systems.
That's not a bad idea. I kinda dig it.
It was Colin that mentioned it in one of his posts in this topic. I agree, that it is a good idea and elevates them above merely 'bugs'.
I also like how it gives us some insight into what may have happened to Lambert.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 05:11:03 PM
I prefer it if the dominant alien becomes the queen. That way it is genetically pre-determined. The best alien DNA gets passed on, creating a new batch of aliens which has a dominant alien again, etc, etc. So genetic improvements can happen. That is seen in biology, also.
It is kind of like a mixing of insect and mammal reproductive systems.
I had this similar conversation with a T3 fan... you always want to make sure things are as simple as possible. This idea feels more like the x-men films (which I love).
So brainiacs will say: you wanted realism this is REAL. NO. The key is a balance of appealing and realism, not ACTUAL realism. Sometimes things that technically exist in real life look more bogus than something made up. The art of illusion doesnt work that way.
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 27, 2007, 05:24:52 PM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 05:11:03 PM
I prefer it if the dominant alien becomes the queen. That way it is genetically pre-determined. The best alien DNA gets passed on, creating a new batch of aliens which has a dominant alien again, etc, etc. So genetic improvements can happen. That is seen in biology, also.
It is kind of like a mixing of insect and mammal reproductive systems.
I had this similar conversation with a T3 fan... you always want to make sure things are as simple as possible. This idea feels more like the x-men films (which I love).
So brainiacs will say: you wanted realism this is REAL. NO. The key is a balance of appealing and realism, not ACTUAL realism. Sometimes things that technically exist in real life look more bogus than something made up. The art of illusion doesnt work that way.
I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say here. That they should keep the explanations simple even if it doesn't make sense?
Btw, most of that can be inferred from the evidence onscreen, it doesn't have to be explicitly stated anywhere. Just show the predalien taking control and barfing in people's mouths - that's all they need to show.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 05:34:39 PM
I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say here. That they should keep the explanations simple even if it doesn't make sense?
Define "make sense". In film or in complete reality.
Ok right, i think this is simular to what Yellow Alien said but i think its down to the situation:
Aliens 3: eggs on the saluco, (smuggled or laid by the queen at some point before she was blown out to space) now we dont know how many eggs there were right? so one that went for Ripley and teh other went for the dog, but pretty much the situation was that there was no queen about, THEN ripley was impreganted, so like a telepathic thing the embryo became a queen, then we have the dog drone to secure the area,
AVP/AVP-R : Near the end of AVP when the predator was inpreganated the queen was live and kicking and planning escape right? so no need for the embryo to go into any kind of metamophesis, so it just developes normally, AVP happens, predator corpse/comatose body taken up into the ship, and the chest burster bursts, situation here is theres no queen, so it goes into a metamorphasis which is probaly slower because its almost fully queen rather that being an under developed embryo. Thats how i see the queen production method, this idea with the vomiting young queen kind of makes sense, if a queen can lay eggs that prouce aliens why not cut out the middle man and stick it right in there? the whole egg morphing idea was a bit far fetched really, and was never actually shown only as a deleted scene right? and thats what it was deleted, as in not actually happened
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 12:49:57 AM
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Oct 27, 2007, 12:44:42 AM
And arguing with the Director of what would be considered a Winter Blockbuster... WOW!! Just WOW!! Talk about forcing your vision down on a director who has already completed the filming.
Or maybe it's just showing how the director's vision sucks ass, goes against what we've seen and makes themselves out to be a bit flimsy on their definition of 'not breaking canon'?
The only difference between Colin and any other moronic fanboy out there is that Colin's ideas become canon.
WARNING - LONG POST AHEAD... ::)
Actually, SiL, this Colin idea conflicts directly with what precedes it, namely in Alien Resurrection, so it won't be cannon, as it clearly conflicts with what has been established in 1997, so if some director 10 years later decides to contradict it, he better have his lesson learned, because he has, so far, just demonstrated this movie had no place in being made if , for budget reasons, this transvesti is the best they came up with... BUT I am sure the following director (AVP3 or Alien 5) will put things right again... Colin's idea cannot be the last word on it... It disrupts and damages what came 'after' and clearly is way worse than EM, that's for sure...the worse about EM would be the duration, but this lazy idea just made me realise this movie should not have been done...
If you destroy the credibility of how Aliens are born, you destroy the Aliens' credibility throughout the movie... And that's the worse it could happen... Forget the fight sequences, the humans getting horrible deaths, kidbursting, because
when you destroy the foundations of anything, no building manages to remain standing up...For budget reasons, FOX and the Bros, managed to destroy continuity, destroy Jim Cameron's Queen concept, render what transpired from AR a lie regarding the time a Queen begins laying eggs, render the Alien genesis laughable and pointless, and the most hilarious part of it all, is that this AVPR movie is a PREQUEL to the Alien movies..:!!! :o :o :D :D
Canon is what comes first, not some juvenile idea of messing with the establishment...If any new idea contradicts or negates what came first, it is the new idea that has to prove itself worthy, not the ones already established... What I call the 'Seniority power factor'...
With this new RC, Colin is risking the credibility of what will be on the movie, just for budget reasons and some ill-advised idea that rookie directors often have which is to impose their ideas on the movie, even though they conflict directly with the previous movies, namely Alien Resurrection...That single dialogue scene between Perez, Wren and Gediman proves Colin's motivations are all wrong, and his statements erroneous at best... There is no leeway left unexplored between a young Queen stage and an adult one... AR clearly showed she can only lay eggs after reaching adult size and form... The Predalien is clearly a pathetic display of bad conception designs together with lack of respect for the canon which clearly states no Queen has the features of the hosts...
Aliens and
AR Queens didn't, nor did the AVP one, but Colin now has a Predalien Queen with more Predator features than Alien ones, even with Predator skin... about the same size of a Predator, regurgitating eggs through her mouth, even though she is clearly not adult yet,
and the Bros. and FOX expected to let this one slide until the premiere, where we would be getting the blow... but then it would be too late...I have no doubts in saying we've been had, boys... What else must we be expecting...? Still two months to come, so plenty of time to have a few more details leaked, and hopefully not more of these... >:(I was trying to convince myself to go see this movie just for the hell of it but then I realised, if at least 1000 people think like that, this movie will give a lot of money to FOX and then we will be having more of these, so I think I have no choice but to listen to my voice of reason and see what transpipres from the US premiere first... I'll have three weeks before I can see it anyway, so I will wait and see...I am very disappointed with all this...I truly am... Forget what I said about the designs looking bad and everything else, which is a matter of subjective taste anyway...
When you mess with well-established canon, then all is up for grabs...! :( >:( :( >:( :( >:( :( >:(
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 05:19:09 PM
It was Colin that mentioned it in one of his posts in this topic. I agree, that it is a good idea and elevates them above merely 'bugs'.
Ok gameoverman, i think I got your angle now. Heres a response....
Essentially if Cameron took a more down to earth approach for these creatures and gave them a lifecycle similar to insects, perhaps it shouldnt be messed with much. Its a form of creating illusion that strikes a familiar chord in us, thus making it more authentic feeling. Bryan Singer did the same when he made Superman a supernatural almost biblical proportions figure in Superman Returns. Both genius imo.
Im just saying one doesnt want to overcomplicate things. Keep it simple, but explained simple and well. Itll get too geeky.
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 05:17:27 AM
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 27, 2007, 05:12:20 AM
The tampered Queen theory is a fan theory to begin with from AVP that's never been confirmed, so it's a further stretch to apply it here.
I know, I know...... but this sure is easier to swallow than simply accepting this new life-cycle crap.
Indeed!! Hopefully it won't surface again in any other movies. Hey directors!!! Stick with the program why don't you!!!
Is there such a thing as to geeky? lol
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Oct 27, 2007, 05:42:57 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 12:49:57 AM
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Oct 27, 2007, 12:44:42 AM
And arguing with the Director of what would be considered a Winter Blockbuster... WOW!! Just WOW!! Talk about forcing your vision down on a director who has already completed the filming.
Or maybe it's just showing how the director's vision sucks ass, goes against what we've seen and makes themselves out to be a bit flimsy on their definition of 'not breaking canon'?
The only difference between Colin and any other moronic fanboy out there is that Colin's ideas become canon.
Actually, SiL, this Colin idea conflicts directly with what precedes it, namely in Alien Resurrection, so it won't be cannon, as it clearly conflicts with what has been established in 1997, so if some director 10 years later decides to contradict it, he better have his lesson learned, because he has, so far, just demonstrated this movie had no place in being made if , for budget reasons, this transvesti is the best they came up with... BUT I am sure the following director (AVP3 or Alien 5) will put things right again... Colin's idea cannot be the last word on it... It disrupts and damages what came 'after' and clearly is way worse than EM, that's for sure...the worse about EM would be the duration, but this lazy idea just made me realise this movie should not have been done...
If you destroy the credibility of how Aliens are born, you destroy the Aliens' credibility throughout the movie... And that's the worse it could happen... Forget the fight sequences, the humans getting horrible deaths, kidbursting, because when you destroy the foundations of anything, no building manages to remain standing up...
For budget reasons, FOX and the Bros, managed to destroy continuity, destroy Jim Cameron's Queen concept, render what transpired from AR a lie regarding the time a Queen begins laying eggs, render the Alien genesis laughable and pointless, and the most hilarious part of it all, is that this AVPR movie is a PREQUEL to the Alien movies..:!!! :o :o :D :D
Canon is what comes first, not some juvenile idea of messing with the establishment...If any new idea contradicts or negates what came first, it is the new idea that has to prove itself worthy, not the ones already established... What I call the 'Seniority power factor'...
With this new RC, Colin is risking the credibility of what will be on the movie, just for budget reasons and some ill-advised idea that rookie directors often have which is to impose their ideas on the movie, even though they conflict directly with the previous movies, namely Alien Resurrection...
That single dialogue scene between Perez, Wren and Gediman proves Colin's motivations are all wrong, and his statements erroneous at best... There is no leeway left unexplored between a young Queen stage and an adult one... AR clearly showed she can only lay eggs after reaching adult size and form...
The Predalien is clearly a pathetic display of bad conception designs together with lack of respect for the canon which clearly states no Queen has the features of the hosts...Aliens and AR Queens didn't, nor did the AVP one, but Colin now has a Predalien Queen with more Predator features than Alien ones, even with Predator skin... about the same size of a Predator, regurgitating eggs through her mouth, even though she is clearly not adult yet, and the Bros. and FOX expected to let this one slide until the premiere, where we would be getting the blow... but then it would be too late...
I have no doubts in saying we've been had, boys... What else must we be expecting...? Still two months to come, so plenty of time to have a few more details leaked, and hopefully not more of these... >:(
I was trying to convince myself to go see this movie just for the hell of it but then I realised, if at least 1000 people think like that, this movie will give a lot of money to FOX and then we will be having more of these, so I think I have no choice but to listen to my voice of reason and see what transpipres from the US premiere first... I'll have three weeks before I can see it anyway, so I will wait and see...
I am very disappointed with all this...I truly am... Forget what I said about the designs looking bad and everything else, which is a matter of subjective taste anyway... When you mess with well-established canon, then all is up for grabs...! :( >:( :( >:( :( >:( :( >:(
YutaniDitch - I demonstrated before, it does not contradict Alien Resurrection in any way.
The only thing it may contradict is the egg-morphing scene in Alien.
Which was fairly stupid.
Sorry there, gameoverman... Could you copy-paste your response again...? When I left yesterday, we were at page 14... now, we are already at page 59... :o :o and I am having some trouble keeping up with all the posts...! :-[ ::)
sooooooooo,
The Pred alien is a young queen (either molting into one or just growing up into one) but before she gets attached to the wall and is immobile and a little helpless laying eggs (A2) she uses this alternative method of reproduction to build up a quick army (multiple bursters) who will protect her and bring her hosts once she starts the egg-cycle.
This idea kind of fits with the older idea of the Queen having a 'Royal Guard' of tougher aliens in the nest.
But are Prealien drones and facehugger drones the same, or are their differences?
Dude, Colin said that this part of the life cycle won't contradict anything in any of the Alien movies, take his word for it. It might seem really bad right now but it might actually work in the movie.
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Oct 27, 2007, 05:59:32 PM
Sorry, gameover...must have dozed off... could you copy-paste your response...? When I left yesterday, we were at page 14... now, we are already at page 59... :o :o and I am having some trouble keeping up with all the posts...! :-[ ::)
I said the Queen never had a chance to use the 'barfing' method because she was in captivity.
Quote from: Skynetdyne on Oct 27, 2007, 08:29:54 AM
Quote from: MattTaz on Oct 27, 2007, 07:59:26 AM
Quote from: Skynetdyne on Oct 27, 2007, 07:31:16 AM
Well after reading many posts on this thread and trying not to have my brain explode after reading all the arguements i feel id like to put my 2 cents in.
This idea first infuriated me and pissed me off to no end. It took about 3 hours for me to have a turning point on it. I begane to picture the predalien holding some one down and slowly forcing its mouth down the victims throat and i realized just how perfect it is. It goes extremely well with the sexual aspect of the face hugger and design of the alien. It really is a rape now.
This explains the necesity of having the long mouths with the species. The thought of what a lone drone will do in the absence of a hive is not bad. I did prefer the pratorian growth theory but i think this theory works well also.
Actually the DVD extras H R Giger is on he's always drawing the Alien kissing the human host. As I consider Giger to be the soul of the alien creature it could be argued that this new lifecycle is more in tune with Giger's creation than any of the other ideas i.e. Newborn
You can just imagine Giger dressed in black sitting on one of his freaky chairs saying "Yes kiss her, deeper yes, that's so creepy and sensual"
OK I've just freaked myself out ;D
Thats exactly what I like about it, its a very giger idea. And Giger is the soul of the Alien.
That is a good point. The concept does tap into the ethos of the alien as conceptualized by Giger.
This thread gives me a headache.
We don't know all the steps that Chet goes through to become a queen. We can assume this was the big secret but that there are more in store. At least, I hope ones that explain the life cycle more.
Until we find out what those secrets are, even if people argue about the canon being written or changed or rewritten or whatever the hell, maybe things were sometimes made clear in previous Alien films to make room for new ideas.
Negative people have a right to be negative at this point and positive people may go ahead and decide if they like the life cycle expansion.
But for the love of god, judging a movie on a single account out of context and not yet fully explained is dumb. Express them freely now, and learn the truth of the whole fiasco later.
P.S: Canon can really annoy me sometimes...
Hybrid - I don't mind the idea, it strikes me as similar to the Frog DNA explanation in Jurassic Park - like finds a way.
In both of the previous Alien films where there has been a single drone you see them making preparations to begin some kind of hive, either through the cut scene in Alien or keeping Ripley alive in A3. This has just taken it one stage further and we will see the beginnings of a hive, rather than a completed one as in A2
So now with this new reproduction the aliens populate like this:
a queen lays the eggs, if she or her hive feels threatened and feels she might be destroyed she has the ability to produce a superfacehugger which can produce another queen and a drone for her protection. If there is no queen present a single drone (or prealien) has the ability to molt into one and rebuild the hive through mouth impregnation. There is nothing wrong with this new idea, it makes the alien species that more menicing and dangerous.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 27, 2007, 08:35:43 AM
Quote from: SuicideDoors on Oct 27, 2007, 07:59:49 AM
I still want Colin & Greg on AvP3 because that presents us the best chance of getting something closer to Giger's Alien.
How do you figure that? Most of the stuff we've seen so far couldn't be further from the original.
Because they've been in touch with the fandom for well over a year now. SiL's pretty much drilled it home what Alien fans want to see design-wise, and I think Crom even revealed that Giger's Alien head will show up in the Predator's trophy case.
So that leads me to believe if they get another crack we'll get an Alien design closer to the original's than ever before.
Quote from: Hybrid PM on Oct 27, 2007, 06:09:28 PM
So now with this new reproduction the aliens populate like this:
a queen lays the eggs, if she or her hive feels threatened and feels she might be destroyed she has the ability to produce a superfacehugger which can produce another queen and a drone for her protection. If there is no queen present a single drone (or prealien) has the ability to molt into one and rebuild the hive through mouth impregnation. There is nothing wrong with this new idea, it makes the alien species that more menicing and dangerous.
That's what I was thinking. The regurgitation method is only used when a lone drone is molting into a Queen. Once the molting process is done, it is a mature Queen and lays eggs.
ok so....instead of facehuggers and eggs we got the pred-alien that is a pred-alien-queen that barfs embryos into peoples mouths....and how does this not f**k with everything thats has been previously established?
...wonderful
Well said Hybrid PM
It seems the "barfing" idea has caused alot of heated comments. I have to agree with SiL on this. His points are very valid. The Stause Brothers have said they are going back to the old roots of Alien/Aliens? But ive not seen, in any clips or pictures showing evidence of this other than teenagers and cops running around in an American Pie setting. I'm sorry,but thats just wrong! Not only have you help aid Anderson Bastardise the AVP franchise - you have also helped f**k up both the Alien AND the Predator franchise.
If you wanted to bring back old school then why not do it the old way then? None of this " A quiet small town where everything is calm and peiceful .. UNTIL ONE DAY..." crap! Tha sort of sh*t is targeted at TEENAGERS! You got to remember this is an adult film!!
I know I am sure to get alot of heated comments form this - TBH - I really don't care,but if your going to take on a BIG franchise like this then atleast do it right!! Get your arse in gear and make it right! No re-hash of the ADI Alien : Res xenomorphs!!! But use the dam ALIEN design atleast! Surely you could have asked FOX for some funding for that eh?
Bri >:(
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 27, 2007, 06:12:43 PM
Quote from: Hybrid PM on Oct 27, 2007, 06:09:28 PM
So now with this new reproduction the aliens populate like this:
a queen lays the eggs, if she or her hive feels threatened and feels she might be destroyed she has the ability to produce a superfacehugger which can produce another queen and a drone for her protection. If there is no queen present a single drone (or prealien) has the ability to molt into one and rebuild the hive through mouth impregnation. There is nothing wrong with this new idea, it makes the alien species that more menicing and dangerous.
That's what I was thinking. The regurgitation method is only used when a lone drone is molting into a Queen. Once the molting process is done, it is a mature Queen and lays eggs.
I like this new idea I don't know why there are so many haters but everone is entitled to their opinion.
OKAY since when is Chet BARFING? Its uining its tounge thing to go into a persons mouth, not BARFING, whoever came up with that word is an idiot trying to make it sound stupider. UNLESS Colin said it his self.
Quote from: Hybrid PM on Oct 27, 2007, 06:09:28 PM
So now with this new reproduction the aliens populate like this:
a queen lays the eggs, if she or her hive feels threatened and feels she might be destroyed she has the ability to produce a superfacehugger which can produce another queen and a drone for her protection. If there is no queen present a single drone (or prealien) has the ability to molt into one and rebuild the hive through mouth impregnation. There is nothing wrong with this new idea, it makes the alien species that more menicing and dangerous.
It is a good idea. Better than egg morphing. Unfortunately, it won't satisfy the purists.
Quote from: BUGZ on Oct 27, 2007, 06:15:37 PM
The Stause Brothers have said they are going back to the old roots of Alien/Aliens? But ive not seen, in any clips or pictures showing evidence of this other than teenagers and cops running around in an American Pie setting. I'm sorry,but thats just wrong! Not only have you help aid Anderson Bastardise the AVP franchise - you have also helped f**k up both the Alien AND the Predator franchise.
Its interesting too, because while AVP was Pg-13 and had crap story and script, AVP2 is deforming it the other way with 1 single selling point: grit. Theyre approaching it like grit apparently is in many peoples mind: slasher. How different is this REALLY from AVP?
Grit and crappy horror are not one and the same. Its sad that were actually bowing to this nonsense with one of the strongest franchises to prove this wrong: alien in particular. Thats whats so frustrating.
Now we get a vomiting gag on top of this. Nice. ::)
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 06:02:43 PM
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Oct 27, 2007, 05:59:32 PM
Sorry, gameover...must have dozed off... could you copy-paste your response...? When I left yesterday, we were at page 14... now, we are already at page 59... :o :o and I am having some trouble keeping up with all the posts...! :-[ ::)
I said the Queen never had a chance to use the 'barfing' method because she was in captivity.
Huh... that is pretty flimsy, don't you think...? I mean, you are trying to insert the 'Barfing embryo-laying' into the rationale of the whole scene... She was not conceived, neither by Jim, nor by the following, to have a third RC in AR, and I am sure Perez dialogue with Wren and Gediman specifically stated she would start laying eggs, not even remotely implying she had a previous RC before that...which we know she didn't, from AVP, Aliens, etc...
It is a bit much having one Alien eggmorghing, then having a Queen laying the eggs for two more movies, then add a new unnecessary and quite ridiculous cycle on top of that...I thought you said you had 'demonstrated' it... you know you require proof, that's why I presented the dialogue scene in AR, as well as previous movies, to show you there was no prior RC before the Egg-laying one...
Jim Cameron will like this one, I can assure that... ::)
Not only Colin destroys his Queen thing, it gives Aliens way more RCs than any creature can possibly have (4 RCs - egg-laying one, barfing one, the mixed one AND mixed barfing-egg laying one, because I don't think being the Predalien a QUeen, it would not go on and start the egg-laying one in a following stage...)So, this RC is an ill-conceived idea from every perspective...This is a franchise, not some new movie with alien creatures like
Alien versus Hunter... ;D
We now have Aliens having 3 RCs (4, with artificial DNA mixing) and this is quite preposterous...
and certainly uncalled for...the RC is onle of the most well-established canons in the Alien movies... Why mess with that...? ::)
The AR one was done in laboratory, the EM was before the Queen one but could also be added to it, in specific cases no Queen is present and nowhere to be found... this BC (Barfing cycle), predictably a preliminary cycle before the Egg-laying one, is overkill... and too canon-sensitive...
If she had the ability to barf embryos, I am sure the scientists like Gediman and Wren would know about it, and use some soldiers to be hosts...The waiting for the cryo-abductees from the Betty proves, beyond doubt, this stage was inexistent in that movie... ;)
Past Alien movies' evidence and logic disavowed this new cycle, not just personal opinions like mine... ;)
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 06:26:02 PM
Quote from: Hybrid PM on Oct 27, 2007, 06:09:28 PM
So now with this new reproduction the aliens populate like this:
a queen lays the eggs, if she or her hive feels threatened and feels she might be destroyed she has the ability to produce a superfacehugger which can produce another queen and a drone for her protection. If there is no queen present a single drone (or prealien) has the ability to molt into one and rebuild the hive through mouth impregnation. There is nothing wrong with this new idea, it makes the alien species that more menicing and dangerous.
It is a good idea. Better than egg morphing. Unfortunately, it won't satisfy the purists.
Yea, I guess you can't please everyone.
Since when is Chet vomiting?!?!?!?
I dont know if its vomiting per se but she's putting embryos into people through her mouth.
Love it! - 36 (22.6%)
Pretty Cool - 61 (38.4%)
I expected more - 13 (8.2%)
Hate it - 12 (7.5%)
To hell with the makers of AvP: R - 16 (10.1%)
Like some aspects of it, but think it contradicts too much. - 21 (13.2%)
I think this is means something! More people like the idea. Thx haven.
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 27, 2007, 06:27:48 PM
Quote from: BUGZ on Oct 27, 2007, 06:15:37 PM
The Stause Brothers have said they are going back to the old roots of Alien/Aliens? But ive not seen, in any clips or pictures showing evidence of this other than teenagers and cops running around in an American Pie setting. I'm sorry,but thats just wrong! Not only have you help aid Anderson Bastardise the AVP franchise - you have also helped f**k up both the Alien AND the Predator franchise.
Its interesting too, because while AVP was Pg-13 and had crap story and script, AVP2 is deforming it the other way with 1 single selling point: grit. Theyre approaching it like grit apparently is in many peoples mind: slasher. How different is this REALLY from AVP?
Grit and crappy horror are not one and the same. Its sad that were actually bowing to this nonsense with one of the strongest franchises to prove this wrong: alien in particular. Thats whats so frustrating.
Now we get a vomiting gag on top of this. Nice. ::)
Maybe in AvP 3 the lifecycle will expand to an Alien circle jerk. :P
Quote from: csutkakoma on Oct 27, 2007, 06:38:06 PM
Love it! - 36 (22.6%)
Pretty Cool - 61 (38.4%)
I expected more - 13 (8.2%)
Hate it - 12 (7.5%)
To hell with the makers of AvP: R - 16 (10.1%)
Like some aspects of it, but think it contradicts too much. - 21 (13.2%)
I think this is means something! More people like the idea. Thx haven.
Yes, the figures don't lie...or do they...? ;)
It is 60-40 so far...but still two months to go... The poll is not over yet, is it...? ;)
Quote from: echobbase79 on Oct 27, 2007, 06:38:16 PM
Maybe in AvP 3 the lifecycle will expand to an Alien circle jerk. :P
Or maybe a alien cycle resistant to delluded film maker superjerks who think Grindhouse was the most brilliant thing on earth?
I wonder what the age range is on some of these?
I voted I expected more because I don't won't do judge the film before its release.
But I'm really leaning more towards that it sucks the more I think about it.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 10:14:04 AM
We have to assume there is only a limited amount of times an alien can reproduce that way.
Why? I don't see why Aliens would have pre-built restrictions. If they can use it, then they're going to use it, wholesale.
More to the point, this is what egg transformation was for. Many people, including myself, are puzzled at why a perfectly decent method of reproduction has been both changed
and made obselete.
QuoteThat Queen was in captivity. We don't know how she would have acted if she was free to do anything she wants.
Physical space won't affect what the thing's physical capabilities are. Like I wrote earlier, are we going to believe the scientists never put a wild animal in there, just to see what might happen? After all,
they had no way of knowing how the Queen process kicks off. They had Ripley 7 laying around doing nothing but writhing around in pain, if nothing else.
QuoteIt would presumably take some time for the Queen to produce enough eggs to protect her in this way. In the meantime, she is vulnerable.
How is going around looking for fights making her in any way
safer than finding somewhere dark and secret to set up home? All that time she wastes could be used a lot more productively. She'll have to hook herself up in a room and start making eggs at
some time. Might as well be early.
QuoteYeah but this is not always a given.
It is in a town like the one we see represented. There would be ample time and space to set itself up in a suitable place. We know there's a basement, the sewers and there are also the woods.
QuoteIt is a reference to the games, though. I know that most people only know about predaliens through the AVP games.
That's no excuse for deliberately trying to recreate one of the most shittiest designs in game history. :)
Just look at what they made up for that thing. It looks terrible. There weren't even the upper set of mandibles on it. I might find a few obvious things to dislike about this one, but at least it's better than that would have been.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 10:22:18 AM
Well if she is busy fighting off enemies, she can't lay eggs can she?
This is an argument for the thing
not going out to seek danger. :)
Quote from: Gates on Oct 27, 2007, 01:05:41 PM
Now I'm really going to throw up...somebody please tell me that this whole sh!tbag idea didn't come from some form of EU garbage... :-X
It wasn't. It's from '
Warhammer'. Like I said, I think these directors coudl make a great film adaptation of that, but the fact remains, Genestealers were always designed as Alien imitations (they were literally copied from the Alien design), whose method of reproduction was by forcing embryos into victim's mouths and down throats.
What's ironic is that, by making the Predalien do that, it's imitating an imitation. :)
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 01:36:23 PM
We know there was only one egg shown - there couldn't have been two facehuggers.
There could have, actually. There might have been more than one egg in that place.
Quote from: Devils Advocate on Oct 27, 2007, 01:40:09 PM
So what Colin is basically saying is that if there is no Queen, life or nature will find a way to change the whole order of things if it can't reproduce the way it was intended.
Which is
precisely what egg transformation should have been for.
I was trying to make things fit, by originally suggesting that egging victims was for Queens and this other method was to create regulars. See? That would have fitted perfectly. It would even have truly accounted for Lambert (if this is what is being alluded as having happened to that character), by preserving both methods.
The problem is that, if the Predalien is
becoming a Queen, then the egg cocoons no longer have any biological purpose.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 01:53:51 PM
When Kane is being lowered into the egg chamber - only one section has the stasis fields. All of the other eggs look deformed - like in the game AVP2 - you see those eggs are obviously expired.
It's just a production error. The viewer isn't meant to analyse it, any more than we're meant to analyse how Bishop's torso is sticking out of a hole, on the Sulaco. Like Gates points out, some of them are bigger than even the character being lowered into the chamber. :)
They were just badly drawn, that's all. The only reason we only see one of the fields clearly is because it's the main one which has light shining on it.
Their purpose was intentionally ambiguous. It was meant to raise that question in the viewer's mind: Is it keeping them in stasis? Is it a safety device? Is it an alarm? Is it the extraterrestrial version of really funky wallpaper?
Who knows?
Quote from: RoaryUK on Oct 27, 2007, 01:56:02 PM
Oh my, how some people forget these days, yet I distinctly remember a time when Aliens came out in 1986 and the distaste for the introduction of the Alien Queen. Ok, there was no internet back then, but there were plenty of other ways to communicate, like through the ALENS comics around at the time, and there were a LOT of people who felt that an Alien Queen who "layed eggs" seriously screwed with their vision of the originl ALIEN life-cycle.
Far be it from me to interrupt your train of thought, but there were no '
Aliens' comics around, back then. :)
Quote from: Horhey on Oct 27, 2007, 02:53:02 PM
I dont see whats so horrible about this concept. This is just another display of the Alien's uncanny ability to adapt. Makes sense. If there isnt a Queen to lay eggs, a dominant Alien will molt into one over time. The Predalien regurgitating in people's mouths is just the beginning stage of it's ability to reproduce.
Alien fanboys should dig this concept becouse it makes the Alien species even more risiliant.
I do. I like the idea. It really fits with them.
But again, the problem is not a question of how great it might look on the screen, but that it would simultaneously contradict stuff. :)
Which might not be problematic, but the directors have set themselves up for this criticism by being at pains to try and point out how they're not going to change any of the canon information.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 02:58:59 PM
That's what I've been trying to say all along. It is totally logical. But haters will be haters.
Who's hating? I'm not. I've repeatedly said that I like the idea, as a concept. I've also said that I think it would be great if this is the method used to make regular Aliens, while egging is what makes emergency Queens available.
However, by adding the extra dimension of the Predalien moulting, that's no longer possible and neither is egging or Queens being hatched naturally.
That's not hating, it's pointing out obvious logical problems in the story.
I can't help but wonder what the rection might be if, say, the Predator was suddenly shown using the bones of its prey to make hollowed-out flutes, blowing a happy little tune through them to 'sing' to the gods above.
Would it be new? Yeah. Would it fit with Predator tribal themes? Sure. Would it contradict with what we know they use the skulls for and ignore the bones? Definitely.
Quote from: Predator-S on Oct 27, 2007, 03:17:53 PM
I think you're all forgeting one thing. The brothers didn't came up with that idea just for the sake of something new. They had to do it, because of the plot. I mean, how do you expect the town to be overrun by dozens of aliens? Egg laying/morphing would take a lot of time and will make the Predalien too vulnerable.
No, it wouldn't. It takes a few hours, at most. That could easily be dealt with by a melting cut and small legend on the screen, indicating that very brief passage of time. If multiple hosts are taken in that time, like in '
Alien 3', all taken to the nest and used to create eggs and cocooned hosts for the same, then there would be a sudden explosion in numbers, all at one time.
Thematically, the stakes and any resulting tension would have risen massively and that would suit the story.
Of course, if the passage of time is what's resulting in this, then wouldn't a chestburster take quite a time to mature, on its own, before having grown enough to break free?
Seems as if we might be seeing a return of the accelerated growth.
Quote from: Aeus on Oct 27, 2007, 03:35:05 PM
I'm not impartial to this new life cycle addition. As long as it is pulled off well it's fine by me. I just don't want the Predalien vomiting on someones face.
It won't be. It'll be doing an even more graphic version of what facehuggers do, forcing the inner mouth down the prey's neck. It'll look fantastic.
It'll still contradict, though.
QuoteI don't think it breaks continuity or anything as far as I know (but I'm not an expert on all things Alien), so it's kind of interesting to see what a Young Queen does to make new Aliens when it can't make eggs yet.
Technically, it's not a young Queen. It's an orginary regular which is becoming one.
Quote from: Jenga on Oct 27, 2007, 05:08:55 PM
Anyone who is on the "Sil" side has to be realizing that we probably lost our chance forever to get one final REALLY GOOD alien movie when FOX passed on James Cameron and Ridley Scott working together on Alien 5.......that still burns more than anything else ever will.
Fox didn't pass. Scott and Cameron did. Cameron later came to admit the 'versus' concept wasn't what he was fearing and that he regrets being so impulsive about bailing out of it.
QuoteJesus we need Ridley Scott now more than ever *sigh* :(
Not sure about that. We already know he would immediately redesign it to look like something completely new and wanted the film to end with Space Jockey ships over the Earth, 'bombing' it with eggs from orbit.
If anybody else came up with those ideas, they would be laughed at. :)
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 05:55:57 PM
The only thing it may contradict is the egg-morphing scene in Alien.
And Queens being naturally hatched. There's no biological need for them to be so, if any regular Alien can be one.
It's what should have happened in '
Alien 3', but unless this film is going to somehow retroactively show that was a dream, it needs to work within the frame of what rules have been shown in the films before it.
Quote from: Hybrid PM on Oct 27, 2007, 06:02:38 PM
Dude, Colin said that this part of the life cycle won't contradict anything in any of the Alien movies, take his word for it.
This reminds me of the '
South Park' version of Saddam Hussein.
"What? I'm not makin' any bombs! Heyyy! Take a load off, fella'! Look over here! You need to relax!"
:)
QuoteIt might seem really bad right now but it might actually work in the movie.
It will. It'll work really well in the film, I'm sure of it.
That's not the same thing as it working well in the
series. :)
It might seem really bad right now but it might actually work in the movie.
It will. It'll work really well in the film, I'm sure of it.
That's not the same thing as it working well in the series.
Good point. :)
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 27, 2007, 06:42:35 PM
Or maybe a alien cycle resistant to delluded film maker superjerks who think Grindhouse was the most brilliant thing on earth?
As Logan says in X-Men 1: "Theres a war coming, are you sure youre on the right side?"
:P
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 27, 2007, 06:51:26 PM
That's not the same thing as it working well in the series. [/i]
Yes indeed. T3 being proof that whats good in a film isnt always good when u look at the series.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 06:26:02 PM
rebuild the hive through mouth impregnation. There is nothing wrong with this new idea, it makes the alien species that more menicing and dangerous.
Yeah, it does. It also makes the original lifecycle a redundant piece of crap.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 06:26:02 PM
rebuild the hive through mouth impregnation. There is nothing wrong with this new idea, it makes the alien species that more menicing and dangerous.
It does NOT make them more menacing and dangerous, it makes them more disgusting and over the top nasty like some zombie film or whatever. The aliens will ALWAYS be more menacing and dangerous because raw disgustingness has nothing to do with scary. Its skill.
Its not mouth imnpregnation.. its PUKE. ok? Have we already given this a scientific name? lol!
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 27, 2007, 07:02:40 PM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 06:26:02 PM
rebuild the hive through mouth impregnation. There is nothing wrong with this new idea, it makes the alien species that more menicing and dangerous.
It does NOT make them more menacing and dangerous, it makes them more disgusting and over the top nasty like some zombie film or whatever. The aliens will ALWAYS be more menacing and dangerous because raw disgustingness has nothing to do with scary. Its skill.
Its not mouth imnpregnation.. its PUKE. ok? Have we already given this a scientific name? lol!
is bacically prefachugger...if it can't lay eggs it does it manually
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 07:10:36 PM
is bacically prefachugger...if it can't lay eggs it does it manually
So why would it move into an egg-laying phase? If it can manually implant embryos and start up a colony of warriors, why would it revert into an egg-laying cycle where it's essentially immobile and just has to hope that the eggs or warriors make up for what is now a useless function?
It'd be safer for it... in AVP-R its safer to be on the run with the Wolf around, and possible its part of being young, facehuggers are nasty little buggers so they could work better and in case the Queen dies theirs the eggs so neither are useless always
The whole idea that all young queens go through this phase and can vomit embryos down someone's throat is just ridiculous. We're now apparently supposed to believe that in Alien Resurrection, when the queen was in captivity since being taken out of Ripley's clone, that they never observed its phases or scanned it internally to see if and when it was ready to reproduce.
If they scanned it and saw chestburster embryos in its body, don' t you think they would have sedated it somehow and extracted them to use, as opposed to letting the egg laying phase resume and have to go through all the trouble of illegally obtaining live human hosts to have facehuggers attach themselves to?
Also they made it clear it only takes days for it to reach full grown adulthood and start laying eggs. It is far more logical for a young queen to hide away someplace safe and finish the process of turning into a fullgrown queen as opposed to go out and hunt people to temporarily vomit in people. I mean we are supposed to believe this cycle lasts only 24-48 hours and then conveniently goes away when she is ready to lay eggs?
if it were to go up to its pray and implant an embrio like that, it puts itself at risk. also, if a queen is serounded with her eggs, an attack on her is much harder with all the facehuggers flying around
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 27, 2007, 07:49:45 PM
The whole idea that all young queens go through this phase and can vomit embryos down someone's throat is just ridiculous. We're now apparently supposed to believe that in Alien Resurrection, when the queen was in captivity since being taken out of Ripley's clone, that they never observed its phases or scanned it internally to see if and when it was ready to reproduce.
If they scanned it and saw chestburster embryos in its body, don' t you think they would have sedated it somehow and extracted them to use, as opposed to letting the egg laying phase resume and have to go through all the trouble of illegally obtaining live human hosts to have facehuggers attach themselves to?
she was a freak of nature. she may have skiped that due to human dna
Yea i'm sure in AR every doc was waiting to walk right in with big Queeny and give her a big scan down
Quote from: brad873 on Oct 27, 2007, 07:49:59 PM
if it were to go up to its pray and implant an embrio like that, it puts itself at risk.
Another Alien can just start molting in her place.
Quotealso, if a queen is serounded with her eggs, an attack on her is much harder with all the facehuggers flying around
She could just be surrounded by dozens of adults while in the field. Not to mention that she isn't attached to anything, she can flee if she wants.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 27, 2007, 07:49:45 PM
The whole idea that all young queens go through this phase and can vomit embryos down someone's throat is just ridiculous. We're now apparently supposed to believe that in Alien Resurrection, when the queen was in captivity since being taken out of Ripley's clone, that they never observed its phases or scanned it internally to see if and when it was ready to reproduce.
If they scanned it and saw chestburster embryos in its body, don' t you think they would have sedated it somehow and extracted them to use, as opposed to letting the egg laying phase resume and have to go through all the trouble of illegally obtaining live human hosts to have facehuggers attach themselves to?
This is the point that myself and others have brought up, with the only response being that Colin's a fan of
Aliens and sees their life cycle as mysterious. :-\
Quote from: brad873 on Oct 27, 2007, 07:51:06 PM
she was a freak of nature. she may have skiped that due to human dna
And herein lies the danger of following up BS piles like A: Res... now fans are using it to make explanations for this film? Its called the snowball effect. The next avp film should be called "Dumb and Dumber 3".
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 07:51:35 PM
Yea i'm sure in AR every doc was waiting to walk right in with big Queeny and give her a big scan down
They knew when she started producing eggs, that obviously took some studying to find out. She was behind glass, Are you telling me they didn't have anything to scan her through that, to see any internal features?
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 27, 2007, 07:55:22 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 07:51:35 PM
Yea i'm sure in AR every doc was waiting to walk right in with big Queeny and give her a big scan down
They knew when she started producing eggs, that obviously took some studying to find out. She was behind glass, Are you telling me they didn't have anything to scan her through that, to see any internal features?
They knew she layed eggs from Ripley....
second didn't look like they did...and third even if they did and they did see it...they wouldn't know waht the heck it was without firther studying
Quote from: DB on Oct 27, 2007, 07:52:53 PM
Quote from: brad873 on Oct 27, 2007, 07:49:59 PM
if it were to go up to its pray and implant an embrio like that, it puts itself at risk.
Another Alien can just start molting in her place.
Quotealso, if a queen is serounded with her eggs, an attack on her is much harder with all the facehuggers flying around
She could just be surrounded by dozens of adults while in the field. Not to mention that she isn't attached to anything, she can flee if she wants.
1. even if an alien did moult in her place, im sure a queen wont let herself be killed.
2. and even if there are loads of drones, he extra facehuggers make the chances of her getting attacked even slimmer.
3. even though she can flee if she wants, what happens if there is a creture faster than her chasing her down
Anomaly QUOTE: "Make us proud in Hollywood ;D"
Anomaly: Thank you for the words of encouragement!!! I sure want to. I'm hoping to get a job at ADI within a year! Right now I'm toiling away at Lionsgate watching Saw movies fly by in a conveyor belt :(
DB: I LOVE your icon. Bravo Bravo!
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 27, 2007, 07:53:19 PM
Quote from: brad873 on Oct 27, 2007, 07:51:06 PM
she was a freak of nature. she may have skiped that due to human dna
And herein lies the danger of following up BS piles like A: Res... now fans are using it to make explanations for this film? Its called the snowball effect. The next avp film should be called "Dumb and Dumber 3".
saying she was a freak of nature due to the human dna is bullshit. The only thing that the human dna crossover gave her was a secondary reproductive cycle. The first reproductive cycle and everything up to that point was normal. The only other slight difference, was in the aliens produced, they were a little more intelligent than usual. But if young queens have another phase, she would have had it. If she had skipped that one, why would it not skip the egg laying phase?
Quote from: brad873 on Oct 27, 2007, 07:58:12 PM1. even if an alien did moult in her place, im sure a queen wont let herself be killed.
2. and even if there are loads of drones, he extra facehuggers make the chances of her getting attacked even slimmer.
3. even though she can flee if she wants, what happens if there is a creture faster than her chasing her down
1. Aye. She can run. Because she's not attached to anywhere laying eggs. She can be mobile. She's a threat herself.
2. Like in
Aliens?
3. She's less f**ked than if she were immobile and standing completely still.
Id bet against getting sound reasoning from such a goofball movie like A:Res... i was apalled by that one.
Its like looking for answers from a fortune cookie lol
we dont know how she was affected. and we dont know the innerds of queens full stop. for all we know ripply had the ability to vomit embrios (i dought it, its just and example)
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 07:57:31 PM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 27, 2007, 07:55:22 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 07:51:35 PM
Yea i'm sure in AR every doc was waiting to walk right in with big Queeny and give her a big scan down
They knew when she started producing eggs, that obviously took some studying to find out. She was behind glass, Are you telling me they didn't have anything to scan her through that, to see any internal features?
They knew she layed eggs from Ripley....
second didn't look like they did...and third even if they did and they did see it...they wouldn't know waht the heck it was without firther studying
They didn't learn about the eggs from Ripley. As if they read her memoirs. ::)
When Ripley's clone says its a queen, they respond by saying "how did you know that?" Implying they obviously already knew that, but didn't know how she could have retained any memories.
In fact the only reason they cloned ripley, was because they knew she had a queen inside her when she died. So they clearly knew all about the egg laying..etc.
It might be part of the fact its a Predalien...the mandibles help grab the host
and another thing, when she is attached to the hive, she has her head and limbs pulled in, that might make her invisible to lesser animales, therefor, staying still is safer than moving around, making yourself obvios
Quote from: brad873 on Oct 27, 2007, 08:04:07 PM
and another thing, when she is attached to the hive, she has her head and limbs pulled in, that might make her invisible to lesser animales, therefor, staying still is safer than moving around, making yourself obvios
You do realize that the puking Alien can
also stand still if it needs to, right?
maybe, but what if its not in the hive???? and the victime may be screaming and drawing attention to the queen.
Quote from: brad873 on Oct 27, 2007, 08:04:07 PM
and another thing, when she is attached to the hive, she has her head and limbs pulled in, that might make her invisible to lesser animales, therefor, staying still is safer than moving around, making yourself obvios
quite true. If you watch Aliens, you will see that Ripley while carrying newt, steps inside a nest of eggs before even noticing the queen, she has to turn around and and back up. For those not looking for an egg laying sac, it would look like part of the hive structure. When the queen's head is retracted, once again the same thing, or possibly you would mistake it for being dead and bam if you get close enough it grabs you.
Not to mention it can still use that long tail while hooked up to the egg laying sac. It just needs to knock someone down with it, bringing them at eye level with the eggs which would then open up and a facehugger would leap at them.
So I don't buy into this bullshit of how a queen is defenseless, even when hooked up to the egg sac. A queen is never defenseless, except maybe as a chestburster, but then again that is totally moot, as it is damn fast at that point. Even a queen in a phase where it is slightly smaller and less developed than a full grown queen, is still pretty damn big and terrifying. Also people are forgetting that it can detach from the egg sac in a real emergency if it needs to defend itself or escape.
In aliens it was not the grenade blast that severed her from the tube. She did it herself as to avoid getting blown up.
If it only took days for the queen to grow it to begin with, im sure she can settle down and regrow it, although she would prefer not to sever from it. But her survival means the survival of the species, so i don't think she would mourn at the loss of a mere egg sac.
Quote from: brad873 on Oct 27, 2007, 08:09:14 PM
maybe, but what if its not in the hive???? and the victime may be screaming and drawing attention to the queen.
This is preQueen before she is all huge...second she can runn away if she had to
Ripley never put anything about Queens in her reports. The first thing she knew after waking up was being on the prison world. By then, she was wise enough not to trust the company and prepare a report for them.
Anything to do with Queens was seen by Bishop and they weren't a witness to what was found in the chamber. Ripley would have no reason to inform them, similarly.
Quote from: DB on Oct 27, 2007, 07:52:53 PM
Another Alien can just start molting in her place.
Which makes natural Queens pointless. It would have been great for an '
Aliens' sequel, but we had that in 1992 and it settled the issue.
QuoteShe could just be surrounded by dozens of adults while in the field. Not to mention that she isn't attached to anything, she can flee if she wants.
If the Queen seeks out somewhere dark and quiet, like the sewer, basement or woods, then something has to find her before that happens. She can still escape at the early stages, just like terminite Queens can. It's only after the eggs start really piling up that moobility starts to become a problem. By then, the issue has resolved itself.
Plus, the facehuggers would have already started to seek out and impregante hosts on their own. The proverbial army would have already started to raise.
Quote from: DB on Oct 27, 2007, 08:01:34 PM
1. Aye. She can run. Because she's not attached to anywhere laying eggs. She can be mobile. She's a threat herself.
So can facehuggers and not at the risk of the potential Queen's life.
Quote2. Like in Aliens?
Nature doesn't plan for firearms. If Ripley was a natural, wild creature entering that chamber, she would have been implanted.
Quote3. She's less f**ked than if she were immobile and standing completely still.
Again, how's she going to be found? By the time she is, the firsts eggs have already been laid and the hosts are being implanted. Anything which tries to check up on this new visitor is going to inadvertantly find its sense of curiosity is its downfall.
The new idea's actually pretty good, I like it. Plus, it doesn't at all harm the reproductive cycle established in previous films.
Queens are born as Queens:
Well, yes, the one in Alien 3 had small arms and a vestigial crest on it. BUT, the A:R burster removed from Ripley 8 looked like an ordinary burster, despite the fact we know it molted into a Queen. It is possible therefore, that while Chet was born an ordinary Predalien, it undergoes a change of some sort when it discovers there is no queen present.
If Queens can use this method, why bother entering an egglaying stage?
Because, if there are few drones present, it would be unwise for the queen to make herself vulnerable by growing an eggsack and allowing herself to be attached to the ceiling. If there were two drones gathering hosts while the queen was stuck alone, it would be easy to kill the drones, and then the queen before she could get herself mobile. So, when a hive's in it's early stages, perhaps the queen would use a less effective method of reproduction that allows her to remain battle-ready.
But egglaying is pointless if they can use this method
Wrong! Egglaying is much more effective for impregnating on a large scale. The young queen/implant-giving alien would have to go round personally impregnating all hosts, which would be extremely slow compared to facehuggers, who are created in numbers, allowing them to impregnate more hosts far more quickly.
The idea sucks, why not just go with eggmorphing?
That's your opinion if you think that, not everybody does. At the end of the day, this idea is a lot more feasible than eggmorphing since it basically takes the function of a facehugger and transfers it to an adult alien.
As for Sil... You haven't seen the film, and often I agree with you about a lot of things, but maybe you should stop preaching your opinion like it's gospel truth and start looking at this from other points of view. Don't try to force your opinions and views on others.
Maybe we should all wait until the film is released before we pass judgement.
Good points Kriszilla...
umm, just to say, the AR chestburser was not only undeveloped, but it did have a retractable head too
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 08:11:00 PM
Quote from: brad873 on Oct 27, 2007, 08:09:14 PM
maybe, but what if its not in the hive???? and the victime may be screaming and drawing attention to the queen.
This is preQueen before she is all huge...second she can runn away if she had to
Yeah but that's totally relative. A developing queen is still bigger than a person and a lot stronger. She probably would not run from a person unless they were shooting at her or actual doing something capable of harming her.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 27, 2007, 08:11:17 PM
If the Queen seeks out somewhere dark and quiet, like the sewer, basement or woods, then something has to find her before that happens. She can still escape at the early stages, just like terminite Queens can. It's only after the eggs start really piling up that moobility starts to become a problem. By then, the issue has resolved itself.
The puker Alien can hide as well, and flee even with it's already got it's army.
QuoteSo can facehuggers and not at the risk of the potential Queen's life.
As can adults. Not like her life really matters, anyway.
QuoteNature doesn't plan for firearms. If Ripley was a natural, wild creature entering that chamber, she would have been implanted.
But she wasn't. Now, I could have firearms, walk in, and be raped.
QuoteAgain, how's she going to be found? By the time she is, the firsts eggs have already been laid and the hosts are being implanted. Anything which tries to check up on this new visitor is going to inadvertantly find its sense of curiosity is its downfall.
The same applies to the Puker. By the time you determine that this particular Alien is the puker, she's got an army.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 08:03:34 PM
It might be part of the fact its a Predalien...the mandibles help grab the host
That's what the hands are for. We even see it holding someone's screaming face towards it, while they're on a bed, in a picture.
Quote from: Kriszilla on Oct 27, 2007, 08:11:50 PM
Well, yes, the one in Alien 3 had small arms and a vestigial crest on it. BUT, the A:R burster removed from Ripley 8 looked like an ordinary burster, despite the fact we know it molted into a Queen.
Because it was massively under-developed. Human embryos removed at an early stage don't look like human babies should, for the very same reason. Look at the size of it. It would never have succeeded in cracking open the host's ribcage.
We know what mature Queen chestbursters look like. One is in '
Alien 3'.
QuoteBecause, if there are few drones present, it would be unwise for the queen to make herself vulnerable by growing an eggsack and allowing herself to be attached to the ceiling.
She doesn't automatically get fat. Queen termites go massive, too, but not at first. There's a considerable time of her being able to both lay eggs and forage for food, before she goes into mass production.
Alien Queens would be similar. They wouldn't need a massive sack to just start laying the first few. They wouldn't be immobile, right from the start. By the first few have been laid, there's pre-formed safety.
Remember how Ripley had to be careful of even setting one off? Remember in the second game, how tense the similar situations were?
It's a biological minefield and a really effective one.
QuoteWrong! Egglaying is much more effective for impregnating on a large scale. The young queen/implant-giving alien would have to go round personally impregnating all hosts, which would be extremely slow compared to facehuggers, who are created in numbers, allowing them to impregnate more hosts far more quickly.
All of which is wasting time better served by finding somewhere safe to set up in. Facehuggers would be
better at finding and implanting hosts. They're small, fast and won't raise the same alarms amongst prey as a fully-grown roaming monster would.
QuoteThat's your opinion if you think that, not everybody does. At the end of the day, this idea is a lot more feasible than eggmorphing since it basically takes the function of a facehugger and transfers it to an adult alien.
Yes, it's more efficient. That's why it contradicts. Why would the one in the first film have done that if it was capable of doing this? The only difference could have been to create different types of Aliens, but now we know this one's becoming a Queen, not making them.
*sigh* ok, a drone uses the egg-morph method to create a queen if 1 is absent, a young queen uses the puke method 2 quickly create some bodyguard aliens 2 protect her while she settles, an adult queen uses the egg-lay method so she doent hav 2 put herself in danger to impregnate a host, PLUS, she can mak an infinate number of expendabe facehugger.
Quote from: Kriszilla on Oct 27, 2007, 08:11:50 PM
The new idea's actually pretty good, I like it. Plus, it doesn't at all harm the reproductive cycle established in previous films.
Queens are born as Queens:
Well, yes, the one in Alien 3 had small arms and a vestigial crest on it. BUT, the A:R burster removed from Ripley 8 looked like an ordinary burster, despite the fact we know it molted into a Queen. It is possible therefore, that while Chet was born an ordinary Predalien, it undergoes a change of some sort when it discovers there is no queen present.
If Queens can use this method, why bother entering an egglaying stage?
Because, if there are few drones present, it would be unwise for the queen to make herself vulnerable by growing an eggsack and allowing herself to be attached to the ceiling. If there were two drones gathering hosts while the queen was stuck alone, it would be easy to kill the drones, and then the queen before she could get herself mobile. So, when a hive's in it's early stages, perhaps the queen would use a less effective method of reproduction that allows her to remain battle-ready.
But egglaying is pointless if they can use this method
Wrong! Egglaying is much more effective for impregnating on a large scale. The young queen/implant-giving alien would have to go round personally impregnating all hosts, which would be extremely slow compared to facehuggers, who are created in numbers, allowing them to impregnate more hosts far more quickly.
The idea sucks, why not just go with eggmorphing?
That's your opinion if you think that, not everybody does. At the end of the day, this idea is a lot more feasible than eggmorphing since it basically takes the function of a facehugger and transfers it to an adult alien.
As for Sil... You haven't seen the film, and often I agree with you about a lot of things, but maybe you should stop preaching your opinion like it's gospel truth and start looking at this from other points of view. Don't try to force your opinions and views on others.
Maybe we should all wait until the film is released before we pass judgement.
The only reason the queen chestburster looked somewhat ordinary was because of ADI. Although you could make an argument that they extracted it before it was developed enough to burst on its own. It did not molt into a queen. A normal queen born as one, does normal molting from the chestburster, it did not molt in the same sense that the predalien is molting in avp-r. which is basically non-canon and something out of the comics or avp: extinction game.
And about her vulnerability. Why couldn't one drone stay behind while the other collects hosts?
Quote from: Kriszilla on Oct 27, 2007, 08:11:50 PMWrong! Egglaying is much more effective for impregnating on a large scale. The young queen/implant-giving alien would have to go round personally impregnating all hosts, which would be extremely slow compared to facehuggers, who are created in numbers, allowing them to impregnate more hosts far more quickly.
Generally speaking, the Aliens bring the hosts back into the nest, and not only that, move the eggs towards the hosts as well. The only time we've seen a sort of exception is AvP, however, this may have been a facehugger that wandered off after Miller activated the shitload of eggs. I don't remember which event came first.
keep in mind, the vomiting alien thing as one majore problem. it may take a while to produce another embrio for implantation. say she is born with 3, and uses them in quick succesion of eachother, it may take a while to make more. or maybe she is born with a limated amount of them to protect her.
Quote from: DB on Oct 27, 2007, 08:19:30 PM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 27, 2007, 08:11:17 PM
Nature doesn't plan for firearms. If Ripley was a natural, wild creature entering that chamber, she would have been implanted.
But she wasn't. Now, I could have firearms, walk in, and be raped.
You could also shoot the valuable Queen, except that the Queen would now be sacrificing herself in doing something facehuggers are perfectly capable of being sent out to do on their own.
But you'd
still have to figure out where the Queen was, before you could stroll in. By the time you do that, the eggs are already there and they're implanting,
en masse, not stalking, one at a time.
What picture shows that?
Quote from: Kriszilla on Oct 27, 2007, 08:11:50 PMWell, yes, the one in Alien 3 had small arms and a vestigial crest on it. BUT, the A:R burster removed from Ripley 8 looked like an ordinary burster, despite the fact we know it molted into a Queen. It is possible therefore, that while Chet was born an ordinary Predalien, it undergoes a change of some sort when it discovers there is no queen present.
They cut out an embryo. We never find out if the crest and arms come later into the development. Seeing as it was still in a sac, it would be too far-fetched to say it wasn't fully developed.
QuoteBecause, if there are few drones present, it would be unwise for the queen to make herself vulnerable by growing an eggsack and allowing herself to be attached to the ceiling. If there were two drones gathering hosts while the queen was stuck alone, it would be easy to kill the drones, and then the queen before she could get herself mobile. So, when a hive's in it's early stages, perhaps the queen would use a less effective method of reproduction that allows her to remain battle-ready.
That doesn't explain the plothole created. A:R shows that the Queen was under constant examination. If she really did have such a cycle, the scientists would have picked up on the fact and avoided waiting for eggs. In fact, it really nullifies A:R entirely. The whole point of the Betty being in the Auriga was because they were smuggling in hosts for the Aliens and their eggs. If she could really do that, they wouldn't have had to wait. They seem to have known enough about the Queen to have timed things perfectly in the schedule. If that's the case, the hosts should have come earlier when she was still in this mystery cycle to mass-produce ASAP.
QuoteWrong! Egglaying is much more effective for impregnating on a large scale. The young queen/implant-giving alien would have to go round personally impregnating all hosts, which would be extremely slow compared to facehuggers, who are created in numbers, allowing them to impregnate more hosts far more quickly.
If she already has a brood of warriors, she wouldn't have to go around. She could just sit and wait for them to bring hosts for her to regurgitate into, much like a Queen does in a traditional hive but with the bonus of mobility since she wouldn't have to be stuck to that egg sac. This makes the mystery cycle much more efficient, which brings up the question as to why she would need to lay eggs.
QuoteMaybe we should all wait until the film is released before we pass judgement.
If I got a nickel for every time I read this response online from people on the subject of upcoming movies, I'd be rollin' around in an Escalade using Benjamins as tissue paper. How much more needs to be shown? I mean, do we need to see any more than the red band trailer shows to at least know how the acts play out? I'd give this credence...if this was early January and not late October.
well if u believe the anchorpoint essays, the facehuggers realese a virus the inisiates the creation of the chestburster in the body(supports dna refex since the embryo is formd for the hosts cells, and since the embryo doesnt form in the esophigus or windpipe or the host would no LOOOONG befor the burster emerged), so its not that the queen forms embryos and vomits them, she just vomits the virus.
Quote from: Kriszilla on Oct 27, 2007, 08:11:50 PM
BUT, the A:R burster removed from Ripley 8 looked like an ordinary burster,
No it didn't. I clearly had a crown, as was pointed out.
QuoteAs for Sil... Don't try to force your opinions and views on others.
Yet I should lie back and take it when people do the same to me? :)
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 27, 2007, 08:26:52 PM
You could also shoot the valuable Queen, except that the Queen would now be sacrificing herself in doing something facehuggers are perfectly capable of being sent out to do on their own.
But you'd still have to figure out where the Queen was, before you could stroll in. By the time you do that, the eggs are already there and they're implanting, en masse, not stalking, one at a time.
I'd have to find the stupid Puker first as well. Meanwhile, the stupid shit is running around barfing into people's faces. Then, once I kill it, another Alien just starts puking up too.
Quote from: DB on Oct 27, 2007, 08:19:30 PM
The puker Alien can hide as well, and flee even with it's already got it's army.
You know, this brings up an important point... Why are people claiming the fully developed Queen is immobile? We saw she's not! All she has to do is be sufficiently roused to want to get free and she tears away.
There's very little "immobile" about her. She just has a pre-configured resting position, that's all.
Quote from: DB on Oct 27, 2007, 08:25:36 PM
Quote from: Kriszilla on Oct 27, 2007, 08:11:50 PMWrong! Egglaying is much more effective for impregnating on a large scale. The young queen/implant-giving alien would have to go round personally impregnating all hosts, which would be extremely slow compared to facehuggers, who are created in numbers, allowing them to impregnate more hosts far more quickly.
Generally speaking, the Aliens bring the hosts back into the nest, and not only that, move the eggs towards the hosts as well. The only time we've seen a sort of exception is AvP, however, this may have been a facehugger that wandered off after Miller activated the shitload of eggs. I don't remember which event came first.
Once an egg opens and the facehugger either misses a host or a host sets off the egg to open but then quickly escapes, the facehugger will leave the egg and look for hosts, its not like it will go back in the egg and wait. It severs that symbiotic link between facehugger/egg at that point which is a part of its lifecycle.
The queen especially may be able to release pheromones to cause the eggs to open and go search for hosts.
Well, we can't really base this thing on anything we've seen...i said it before and i'll say it agian we've never seen this stage of a Queen before...we've seen Aliens before Queen (A1/A3) Aliens after (A2) and AR was under containment so it can't be judged
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 27, 2007, 08:32:52 PM
Quote from: DB on Oct 27, 2007, 08:19:30 PM
The puker Alien can hide as well, and flee even with it's already got it's army.
You know, this brings up an important point... Why are people claiming the fully developed Queen is immobile? We saw she's not! All she has to do is be sufficiently roused to want to get free and she tears away.
There's very little "immobile" about her. She just has a pre-configured resting position, that's all.
Well, as we also saw Ripley could have easily killed her begore her escape
plus if the queen detaches for the ovipositer shel hav 2 wait to grow a new 1 and that would be a waste of time
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 27, 2007, 08:32:52 PM
You know, this brings up an important point... Why are people claiming the fully developed Queen is immobile? We saw she's not! All she has to do is be sufficiently roused to want to get free and she tears away.
Yeah, after having her nest (and potentially herself) blown to smithereens. The Puker doesn't appear to have a "wake up, and tear from this stupid thing after the fact" period.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 27, 2007, 08:33:37 PM
Once an egg opens and the facehugger either misses a host or a host sets off the egg to open but then quickly escapes, the facehugger will leave the egg and look for hosts, its not like it will go back in the egg and wait? It severs that symbiotic link between facehugger/egg at that point which is a part of its lifecycle.
The queen especially may be able to release pheromones to cause the eggs to open and go search for hosts.
And yet, the Aliens not only bring the hosts to the nest, but move the eggs closer to the hosts as well.
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 08:33:50 PM
STUPIDS!, only the queen can puke just lik only the queen can lay eggs, she does all the reproduction, the drones dont do it cuz they cant reproduce, only the queen can. r u all idiots???
Whoever suggested that warrior aliens can vomit? (cringing from such a lame thought)
Many people here do not accept the suggestion that ANY aliens can vomit in a hosts mouth.
And if you are calling people stupid, at least have the intelligence not to spell shit wrong yourself in the process or use "r u" as a retarded substitute for "Are you". lol
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 08:33:50 PM
STUPIDS!, only the queen can puke just lik only the queen can lay eggs, she does all the reproduction, the drones dont do it cuz they cant reproduce, only the queen can. r u all idiots???
Firstly, as Moderator, let this be your official warning. Please respect your fellow forum members, not insult them without provocation.
Secondly, the director already came on here, in this very thread. They confirmed it's
transforming into a Queen. Therefore, according to this, all Aliens are capable of it.
The only person who has made themselves appear idiotic is now you, for not having taken the time to check that. Karma's a funny thing, at times. :)
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 27, 2007, 08:32:52 PM
You know, this brings up an important point... Why are people claiming the fully developed Queen is immobile? We saw she's not! All she has to do is be sufficiently roused to want to get free and she tears away.
There's very little "immobile" about her. She just has a pre-configured resting position, that's all.
Does that really change the inefficiency of it? She'd still have to leave herself vulnerable for a moment as she tears herself off, and we don't know how long after she tears free does it take for the Queen to regrow a new one.
QuoteSTUPIDS!, only the queen can puke just lik only the queen can lay eggs, she does all the reproduction, the drones dont do it cuz they cant reproduce, only the queen can. r u all idiots???
Thank you, good sir. I needed a good laugh. Really, though...have you listened to anything Colin said? He's clearly saying that the warriors can just turn into Queens if the situation calls for it. Furthermore, have you read anything anyone here has said? No one is saying that the warriors can do that. No one.
Oh, I'm sorry. My case of stupiditis is starting to make me apply logic to things.
Hmm, did Colin expand that any transforming into a queen part. he said any alien can?
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 08:36:05 PM
plus if the queen detaches for the ovipositer shel hav 2 wait to grow a new 1 and that would be a waste of time
Yeah doing what's necessary to perpetuate and perserve the species, such a waste of time. ::)
The queen should just give up because its too hard and she just doesn't feel like it, she'd rather just turn on the t.v and watch her favorite soap opera and eat some hagen das ice cream. lol
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 08:34:33 PM
Well, we can't really base this thing on anything we've seen...i said it before and i'll say it agian we've never seen this stage of a Queen before...we've seen Aliens before Queen (A1/A3) Aliens after (A2) and AR was under containment so it can't be judged
Observed, scientific containment. The other Aliens were, too. They learnt tons about both.
QuoteWell, as we also saw Ripley could have easily killed her begore her escape
Hence why I qualified the remark with 'sufficiently roused'.
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 08:36:05 PM
plus if the queen detaches for the ovipositer shel hav 2 wait to grow a new 1 and that would be a waste of time
Not if she escapes. It means that the former position is now no longer safe, probably because of environmental impact.
Ripley didn't destroy her nest, the atmosphere processor did. Ripley ran away. The eggs could have been replaced.
Quote from: DB on Oct 27, 2007, 08:37:43 PM
Yeah, after having her nest (and potentially herself) blown to smithereens. The Puker doesn't appear to have a "wake up, and tear from this stupid thing after the fact" period.
Acording to the directors, it will do. It's transforming into a Queen, remember? This means it could face precisely the same situation as that Queen had.
Freak of nature
Freak of nature
Not-quite radioactive
Freak of nature ...
Quote from: Dane on Oct 27, 2007, 12:59:43 PM
Yet its not new..... some of the comics in Aliens with a hybrid would regurgitate in its hosts mouth. :-*
No.
Transforming Queen...that mean at the end of the movie it is a Queen?
The AR sitation is untrust worthy its possible because no one went into the queens chamber we didn't see it happen and that's the only reason
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 08:47:29 PM
Transforming Queen...that mean at the end of the movie it is a Queen?
The AR sitation is untrust worthy its possible because no one went into the queens chamber we didn't see it happen and that's the only reason
nope. Its killed before that can happen.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 27, 2007, 08:49:36 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 08:47:29 PM
Transforming Queen...that mean at the end of the movie it is a Queen?
The AR sitation is untrust worthy its possible because no one went into the queens chamber we didn't see it happen and that's the only reason
nope. Its killed before that can happen.
that's too bad...hmm if it is tranforming to a Queen does that mean it starts out as a normal Predalien and thne starts changing?
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 08:45:36 PM
Freak of nature
Freak of nature
Not-quite radioactive
Freak of nature ...
Indeed!! ;D
The entire idea of this thing turning into a Queen is total madness! I guess for me the alien/predator franchise stopped at both Alien3 and Predator2. I dunno you take a good idea and you fook it right up! Nice one! ::)
Bri >:(
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 27, 2007, 08:45:05 PM
Acording to the directors, it will do. It's transforming into a Queen, remember? This means it could face precisely the same situation as that Queen had.
When it's already a regular Queen, or while it's running around puking? I find it hard to believe the Puker would be running around barfing into people while she's hibernating and sitting in one single place simultaneously, but hey...
It's amazing that so many people here say that they blatantly refuse to see the movie. Just because of this one idea that they hate... :o
Quote from: Predalien warrior on Oct 27, 2007, 08:51:51 PM
It's amazing that so many people here say that they blatantly refuse to see the movie. Just because of this one idea that they hate... :o
Not ONE idea - the entire film is a total farce TBH!
Bri 8)
Here's the quote from Colin.
QuoteWhere do you think the queen came from in Aliens? Perhaps one of the domiant warriors became a young and queen and started the process.
So that's that. The creatures can just become Queens when it's called for.
QuoteTransforming Queen...that mean at the end of the movie it is a Queen?
The AR sitation is untrust worthy its possible because no one went into the queens chamber we didn't see it happen and that's the only reason
If they were so ignorant of this phase, how is it that they knew she laid eggs even before she started? The answer is that they examined her. If that's the case, then this little complexity should have shown up. She had to have had embryos in her that could be detected if she went through this phase.
QuoteIt's amazing that so many people here say that they blatantly refuse to see the movie.
It's amazing how you haven't noticed how few in number the users are that are claiming that, how you think what they say online will hold up when the movie comes, and how you skipped over the fact that many said they might not see it for earlier reasons that have nothing to do with this particular spoiler.
Hey, if the directors can ignore something so obvious as a Queen burster popping out of Ripley in loving close up, what else have they taken liberties with? :o
This news does not bode well for so many reasons.
who said they ingnored it? the creature is jus adapting if a Queen can happen one way who says it can't happen another?
I can't see them adding in any more. I get the feeling this new form of reproduction will just be that one thing added in to add a unique spin.
Quotewho said they ingnored it? the creature is jus adapting if a Queen can happen one way who says it can't happen another?
If chestbursters can come out in 10 minutes, why did it take hours in the first Alien film? "They're alien" is a good explanation for things, but that still changes established canon. This wouldn't be such an issue if it didn't conflict with established canon while it's busy expanding upon it.
I didn't say the chestbursters should speed up...
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 08:53:49 PM
Hey, if the directors can ignore something so obvious as a Queen burster popping out of Ripley in loving close up, what else have they taken liberties with? :o
This news does not bode well for so many reasons.
Thats not vomit. In fact i think it covered a plot hole there: how do queens happen? Its sad to see a franchise deteriorate. Usually it happens when directors find loopholes in previous films and use them as an excuse to do something nasty or corny.
"But they did that! Why cant I do this!"
So this thing turns into a Queen? It isn't born as one?
well, if there was no queen before, its only right the strongest xeno becomes the queen
If Queens can just be molted into, why bother having natural born queens? Their gestation period is longer making them more vulnerable. If they can molt, it would make sense for Queens to never be born naturally.
Quote from: Aeus on Oct 27, 2007, 09:01:31 PM
So this thing turns into a Queen? It isn't born as one?
that or Colin was heard wrong...and if it is so what who said Aliens only have one way of making Queens its more adaptable anyway
and Sil to talk about yours...what's easier to sneak onto a world an animal with a chestburtser or a alien
Well, unless Colin specifically stated that this thing molts into a Queen, I'm going to assume it was born a Queen.
But if it wasn't:
QuoteFreak of nature
Freak of nature
Not-quite radioactive
Freak of nature ...
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 08:59:58 PM
I didn't say the chestbursters should speed up...
Still, if they can shouldn't they? That's my point...just because one
can change things up in the life cycle doesn't mean that one
should.
And Aeus, the quote is in a post I made a few minutes ago where he said exactly that.
well, there must be some sort of hormon that the aliens give off that can turn selected aliens into queens
Well i didn't se it so i can't tell ya
[/quote]
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 27, 2007, 09:08:08 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 08:59:58 PM
I didn't say the chestbursters should speed up...
Still, if they can shouldn't they? That's my point...just because one can change things up in the life cycle doesn't mean that one should.
And Aeus, the quote is in a post I made a few minutes ago where he said exactly that.
the point is its been shown what the Chestburtser time should be...
we've never seen what happens if an Alien is in this sitation lots of hosts, enough time, some guards and a Predalien
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 09:02:46 PM
If Queens can just be molted into, why bother having natural born queens? Their gestation period is longer making them more vulnerable. If they can molt, it would make sense for Queens to never be born naturally.
Perhaps it takes a very long time for the normal alien to become a queen unlike a normally born queen, which could grow to adulthood relatively fast in comparison, and have egglaying ability much faster.
Just a hypothesis.
#1 As mentioned (many times)earlier, Queens are born. Alien-3 states this fact very clearly.
Though the scene wasn't added to the movie, the super-facehugger clearly explained a Queen's origin.
#2 The Queen can defend herself just fine. Just look at her sheer size compared to the other aliens. There is a good reason for this. She's stronger. And the theory that a Queen can't defend herself is void because Queens can detach from the egg-sack just fine. We have seen this TWICE! The Queens in ALIENS and AVP chased after their "pray" just fine.
#3 The Predalien looks way too Predator-ish. Why all that Predator crap? We don't see the Dog/OX alien in ALIEN-3 born with dog hair/ OX horns right? Also, if you look at ALL prior Alien movies, none of the Xenomorphs have PECKS. Why should this one be any different? it should simply have been a BIGGER/STRONGER ALIEN. Not a fusion of the two species.
#4 The new regurgitation method is totally absurd. If aliens has this ability, then the Alien in ALIEN would have done so. Aliens simply CAN NOT DO THIS. If they could, then there would be no need for facehuggers. Adult aliens would be far more efficient at this task.
There are a lot more things that are wrong with AVP:R but those are minor compared to the ones I've just mentioned. I appreciate the "NEW" aspect of this movie, but not if it disregards all the ones that came before it. It's like.... no respect for the older movies, and just do whatever with this one. None of the other 5 "ALIEN" movies did this crap because that's not what aliens do. They make EGGS! EEEEEEEEEEGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
So great, weve officially gotten cone vomiting into an Alien or Predator film. After all that effort we put into this endeavor. ;D I know I was. I sent daily letters to fox.
"Dear Fox
Give us vomit in the next AVP film. Thank you.
Sincerely, Anomaly".
I swear, it's the ghost of Kenner come back to haunt us.
It defantly takes longer this way
Predalien probably still isen't a queen at the end...and they have no queen facehugger to work with (the ALiens don')
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 09:27:17 PM
I swear, it's the ghost of Kenner come back to haunt us.
So true. So awfully true.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 09:02:46 PM
If Queens can just be molted into, why bother having natural born queens? Their gestation period is longer making them more vulnerable. If they can molt, it would make sense for Queens to never be born naturally.
Maybe natural born queens are the best, but when there is no queen they need an alternative - by making the best alien drone molt into a queen.
But we have egg morphing if there's no Queen :)
Quote from: Aeus on Oct 27, 2007, 09:07:29 PM
Well, unless Colin specifically stated that this thing molts into a Queen, I'm going to assume it was born a Queen.
But if it wasn't:
QuoteFreak of nature
Freak of nature
Not-quite radioactive
Freak of nature ...
colin had stated " how do we know that the queen in aliens didn't start out as a warrior and molt into a young queen" or something to that effect. Implying a defense of the predalien not starting off as a queen but molting into one.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 09:27:17 PM
I swear, it's the ghost of Kenner come back to haunt us.
I agree. :'(
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 09:30:53 PM
But we have egg morphing if there's no Queen :)
what if they can't get a host without revealing themselves?
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 09:30:53 PM
But we have egg morphing if there's no Queen :)
Not according to the directors of this film, we don't. :-[
Woohoo! Kenner! What is a 'perfect organism' if it doesn't have more than two ways to multiply? :p
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 09:25:05 PM#2 The Queen can defend herself just fine. Just look at her sheer size compared to the other aliens. There is a good reason for this. She's stronger. And the theory that a Queen can't defend herself is void because Queens can detach from the egg-sack just fine. We have seen this TWICE! The Queens in ALIENS and AVP chased after their "pray" just fine.
Why then in Aliens did she summon her guards? Why not just take out Ripley herself?
Quote#3 The Predalien looks way too Predator-ish. Why all that Predator crap? We don't see the Dog/OX alien in ALIEN-3 born with dog hair/ OX horns right? Also, if you look at ALL prior Alien movies, none of the Xenomorphs have PECKS. Why should this one be any different? it should simply have been a BIGGER/STRONGER ALIEN. Not a fusion of the two species.
The alien just takes the best traits - maybe the dreadlocks and mandibles are useful somehow. The chest - maybe it is because of extra strength/defence.
Quote#4 The new regurgitation method is totally absurd. If aliens has this ability, then the Alien in ALIEN would have done so. Aliens simply CAN NOT DO THIS. If they could, then there would be no need for facehuggers. Adult aliens would be far more efficient at this task.
Alien was meant to work on it's own without the idea of queens. If the alien wanted to produce a queen - why was it morphing Dallas as well? Shouldn't Dallas have been used as a host for the queen-hugger?
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 09:30:53 PM
But we have egg morphing if there's no Queen :)
That's debatable. As it's not technically canon, is it? It didn't even exist until people saw the deleted scenes with it included.
Quote from: Noir-Gojira on Oct 27, 2007, 09:36:39 PM
Woohoo! Kenner! What is a 'perfect organism' if it doesn't have more than two ways to multiply? :p
Who's Kenner? ???
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 09:25:05 PM
#2 The Queen can defend herself just fine. Just look at her sheer size compared to the other aliens. There is a good reason for this. She's stronger. And the theory that a Queen can't defend herself is void because Queens can detach from the egg-sack just fine. We have seen this TWICE! The Queens in ALIENS and AVP chased after their "pray" just fine.
The regular Queen
can defend herself. That's not the point.
QuoteIf they could, then there would be no need for facehuggers.
Now we're talking...
Quote from: Kriszilla on Oct 27, 2007, 09:37:47 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 09:30:53 PM
But we have egg morphing if there's no Queen :)
That's debatable. As it's not technically canon, is it? It didn't even exist until people saw the deleted scenes with it included.
I think the point is that they could have used that instead of pulling another reproductive method out of their asses.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 09:32:41 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 09:30:53 PM
But we have egg morphing if there's no Queen :)
what if they can't get a host without revealing themselves?
Would coming out and the open and raping someone be more obvious and noisey (Lambert), then killing someone taking them away and turning them into an egg.
The only reason I can see for the whole regurgitation thing is that the Aliens need new Aliens fast, and noone can lay eggs, and egg morphing takes too long, so they do the regurgitation thing the impregnate people fast without the need for eggs. More dangerous yes, because they could get killed in the whole raping process but more efficient than egg morphing.
QuoteWho's Kenner? Huh
Company that made the AVP toys way back before the movies. But I loved them for their Jurassic Park and Lost World collection ^_^
Aliens could use any techniquie when needed having more makes them scarier less predictable and les boring
True, the old lifecycle was beginning to stagnate, or at least that's my opinion.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 09:37:25 PM
Why then in Aliens did she summon her guards?
She told them to back off. When Ripley let loose, the Aliens charged forward. Whether or not it was her doing is unknown.
QuoteThe alien just takes the best traits - maybe the dreadlocks and mandibles are useful somehow. The chest - maybe it is because of extra strength/defence.
It takes the posture of the host and, rarely, one additional feature. Everything else it seems to have just fine naturally.
QuoteIt didn't even exist until people saw the deleted scenes with it included.
It was well known back in 1979.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 09:30:53 PM
But we have egg morphing if there's no Queen :)
Seriously, though, how did Aliens happen? We only saw one guy get facehugged - so only one drone. The queen takes at least a few days to grow and start laying eggs (as mentioned in A:R). All this time - if the drone goes around abducting people - turning them into eggs - it is wasting potential hosts for more aliens (1:1 ratio - egg morph to host). It does not explain how Hadley's was overrun so quickly. So yeah, it could just hang around and protect the queen - but it would be hunted by the colonists the whole time. The colonists had weapons they could've taken down a single alien.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv470%2Fbmctoonz%2Fmclovin2.jpg&hash=4717e6839a2fac1b8e6fb15d7c9f66aa44828522)
Sorry I couldn't resist!!!
Bri ;D
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 09:41:38 PM
Aliens could use any techniquie when needed having more makes them scarier less predictable and les boring
Should we have the Aliens spontaneously split in two and grow two whole Aliens from those pieces as well?
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 09:44:09 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 09:30:53 PM
But we have egg morphing if there's no Queen :)
Seriously, though, how did Aliens happen? We only saw one guy get facehugged - so only one drone. The queen takes at least a few days to grow and start laying eggs (as mentioned in A:R). All this time - if the drone goes around abducting people - turning them into eggs - it is wasting potential hosts for more aliens (1:1 ratio - egg morph to host). It does not explain how Hadley's was overrun so quickly. So yeah, it could just hang around and protect the queen - but it would be hunted by the colonists the whole time. The colonists had weapons they could've taken down a single alien.
This atually makes the Hadleys hope invasion make alot more sense...
My point is that AVP:R isn't simply adding content to the Alien and Predator universe. It's MAKING SHIT UP! >:(
how could it "add" somthing that already exists?
Quote
QuoteIt didn't even exist until people saw the deleted scenes with it included.
It was well known back in 1979.
That was also when the directors and fans began disputes over 'canon'
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 09:44:09 PM
Seriously, though, how did Aliens happen? We only saw one guy get facehugged - so only one drone.
I explained this earlier. In Cameron's original chain of events, an investigative team was sent to the derelict and got infected. Not only that, but even if there
was only one, it could take a person, turn them into an egg, and then that hugger could go on to make more eggs as well, or it could be a Queen.
Yes, the colonists had weapons - So did the crew of the Nostromo. A single Alien is notoriously hard to deal with, especially if you don't have prior knowledge of what they are.
We have no timeline from Jordan being hugged, to contact being lost. In
any situation it had to be a few days, whether a drone went around egg morphing or a Queen was born first off.
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 09:46:46 PM
My point is that AVP:R isn't simply adding content to the Alien and Predator universe. It's MAKING SHIT UP! >:(
adding and making stuff up are the same thing...the Queen was "made up" by Cameron
And while he did indeed ignore what was set down by the previous filmmakers, at least what he did worked with what we know, rather than making shit up and excusing it with ignorance.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 09:49:26 PM
adding and making stuff up are the same thing...the Queen was "made up" by Cameron
A queen is not vomit... puke... food matter... a disgusting horror cliche... a marilyn manson gimmick! lol
A queen is high brow. Anyone voting this the most brilliant creation since the queen raise their hand.
*crickets*
ingnore, he knew its there and was smart enough to ask
"What would aliens do if they didn't have time to eggmorph and had no other way to make a Queen." at least he is thinking...
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 09:46:46 PM
My point is that AVP:R isn't simply adding content to the Alien and Predator universe. It's MAKING SHIT UP! >:(
I hate how the least favourite film in the A/P franchise (AVP) has so much influence over the interpretation films to come. It confirms the genes-influenced-by-host theory, which I hate, and opened up a whole ugly can of worms...
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 09:46:46 PM
My point is that AVP:R isn't simply adding content to the Alien and Predator universe. It's MAKING SHIT UP! >:(
Wouldn't go that far. They are 'adding' something, just something most of us don't like. The general public won't care, and the adults in the general public are who this film is aimed at. All they will see is a horrific scene, and horrific scenes are common to both Alien and Predator films.
For the fans, they arn't contradicting anything in the canon, they're just adding new options for the Aliens to choose in thier effort to survive, which sort of makes them more threatening.
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 09:48:20 PM
how could it "add" somthing that already exists?
If you view AVP as a prequel to ALIEN etc..then it's adding to the story.
The Predalien is also adding to the line of aliens we have already seen.
Wolf's badass role is adding to the Pred universe.
The new weapons (whip) is adding to the Pred universe
A new life-cycle is MAKING SHIT UP.
New traits that transfer over to Aliens is MAKING SHIT UP.
A Predator with Jedi powers would be MAKING SHIT UP. ;)
QuoteThe only reason I can see for the whole regurgitation thing is that the Aliens need new Aliens fast, and noone can lay eggs, and egg morphing takes too long, so they do the regurgitation thing the impregnate people fast without the need for eggs. More dangerous yes, because they could get killed in the whole raping process but more efficient than egg morphing.
Egg morphing only takes a few hours judging from the events in Alien.
Are people still under the impression this movie is aimed at adults ... ?
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 09:43:24 PM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 09:37:25 PM
Why then in Aliens did she summon her guards?
She told them to back off.
Yes, and the only reason she did so was because Ripley threatened to torch the eggs. But the point is she uses her guards so she doesn't have to detach from the eggsac otherwise she would have teared Ripley a new one the moment she entered the hive.
QuoteQuoteThe alien just takes the best traits - maybe the dreadlocks and mandibles are useful somehow. The chest - maybe it is because of extra strength/defence.
It takes the posture of the host and, rarely, one additional feature. Everything else it seems to have just fine naturally.
They are the perfect organism but there is still quite a bit of variation between human-born aliens.
Also, the predalien only took 3 traits. The ox/dog alien had 3 - bipedal, removal of dorsal tubes and beastlike look.
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 09:54:43 PM
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 09:48:20 PM
how could it "add" somthing that already exists?
If you view AVP as a prequel to ALIEN etc..then it's adding to the story.
The Predalien is also adding to the line of aliens we have already seen.
Wolf's badass role is adding to the Pred universe.
The new weapons (whip) is adding to the Pred universe
A new life-cycle is MAKING SHIT UP.
New traits that transfer over to Aliens is MAKING SHIT UP.
A Predator with Jedi powers would be MAKING SHIT UP. ;)
so if u lik the idea they're adding, if u dont, there making junk up right?
Aeus...the majored looks like it likes it ... look at the poll lol
Quoteso if u lik the idea they're adding, if u dont, there making junk up right?
Pretty much.
Quote from: Aeus on Oct 27, 2007, 09:54:00 PM
Wouldn't go that far. They are 'adding' something, just something most of us don't like. The general public won't care,
Of course they wont... thats why some people need to be awake at the wheel. They already got A:Res 10 years ago... they could give 2 craps about coherence now lol
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 09:55:46 PM
But the point is she uses her guards so she doesn't have to detach from the eggsac otherwise she would have teared Ripley a new one the moment she entered the hive.
And if there had been no guards, that's exactly what she would've done - Got up and bitch slapped her ass.
QuoteThey are the perfect organism but there is still quite a bit of variation between human-born aliens.
Yet nowhere near this much variation.
QuoteAlso, the predalien only took 3 traits. The ox/dog alien had 3 - bipedal, removal of dorsal tubes and beastlike look.
Predator took mandibles, dreadlocks,
skin, two dorsal tubes. Dog Alien? Walks on four legs, no back tubes. The 'beast like' look doesn't count because that's just how ADI have made them ever since, even their human-born Aliens. It's not exclusive to the dog-born creature.
It's funny how many people say that "most" don't like this new lifecycle. Check out the poll. Looks like "most" actually DO like this new form of the lifecycle.
Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Oct 27, 2007, 09:55:21 PM
QuoteThe only reason I can see for the whole regurgitation thing is that the Aliens need new Aliens fast, and noone can lay eggs, and egg morphing takes too long, so they do the regurgitation thing the impregnate people fast without the need for eggs. More dangerous yes, because they could get killed in the whole raping process but more efficient than egg morphing.
Egg morphing only takes a few hours judging from the events in Alien.
Yeah, but egg morphing doesn't impregnate people. It just makes facehuggers. Which then have to either leave the egg and find a host, or wait for one to come to them. Which is inefficient.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 09:55:40 PM
Are people still under the impression this movie is aimed at adults ... ?
Empire are. And I don't think you've seen enough to know whether it is or isn't.
So now we're saying an alien counts how many traits it takes from a creature and can't take more? that's kinda stupid...
what annoys me is comparing the dog alien and predalien to "normal" aliens. there r no "normal" aliens, just human breed ones, and dogs and humans r mor similar(geneticly) than humans or dogs r to preds.
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 09:56:10 PM
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 09:54:43 PM
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 09:48:20 PM
how could it "add" somthing that already exists?
If you view AVP as a prequel to ALIEN etc..then it's adding to the story.
The Predalien is also adding to the line of aliens we have already seen.
Wolf's badass role is adding to the Pred universe.
The new weapons (whip) is adding to the Pred universe
A new life-cycle is MAKING SHIT UP.
New traits that transfer over to Aliens is MAKING SHIT UP.
A Predator with Jedi powers would be MAKING SHIT UP. ;)
so if u like the idea they're adding, if u dont, there making junk up right?
So a two headed Predator that farts nerve-gas and sings Opera would be OK in your book? Even though I am more of an ALIEN fan...that would piss me off.
I really don't mind new content, just don't
CHANGE what has already been set. This is what I'm saying and you're not getting. ???
QuoteA Predator with Jedi powers would be MAKING SHIT UP. Wink
You're right. Screw the Jedi, Predators would be Sith.
when they mak a nerve-gas farting pred, ill complain, if its a new link in the life cycle that would help insure a young queens safty, no, i dont mind
Adding as an alternative is not changing what has been set before.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:02:18 PM
So now we're saying an alien counts how many traits it takes from a creature and can't take more? that's kinda stupid...
Its not stupid, its instinct. As much as I liked Finchers jet fast alien on 4 legs, he left it open for someone with dull instincts to come in and make something ridiculous. Him or a Scott or Cameron wont be around... sooner or later a Jeunet would come along. Nobodys taken advantage of this yet, but with the incredibly naive open mindedness of some people... im afraid itll be soon.
Quote from: Noir-Gojira on Oct 27, 2007, 10:04:59 PM
QuoteA Predator with Jedi powers would be MAKING SHIT UP. Wink
You're right. Screw the Jedi, Predators would be Sith.
that'd been funny in Star Wars....
Quote from: Noir-Gojira on Oct 27, 2007, 10:04:59 PM
QuoteA Predator with Jedi powers would be MAKING SHIT UP. Wink
You're right. Screw the Jedi, Predators would be Sith.
:D
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 09:48:53 PM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 09:44:09 PM
Seriously, though, how did Aliens happen? We only saw one guy get facehugged - so only one drone.
I explained this earlier. In Cameron's original chain of events, an investigative team was sent to the derelict and got infected.
Is that explanation canon, though?
QuoteNot only that, but even if there was only one, it could take a person, turn them into an egg, and then that hugger could go on to make more eggs as well, or it could be a Queen.
Yeah but like I explained, it can't keep doing it. To create 12 aliens, you need 24 colonists. And in the beginning there is only one alien.
Also, the drone born from Jordan has low probability to be a queen (if natural queens are made that way - by random egg).
QuoteYes, the colonists had weapons - So did the crew of the Nostromo. A single Alien is notoriously hard to deal with, especially if you don't have prior knowledge of what they are.
Yeah but one alien versus over one hundred colonists. They are not going to ignore a creature that just killled one of their own.
QuoteWe have no timeline from Jordan being hugged, to contact being lost. In any situation it had to be a few days, whether a drone went around egg morphing or a Queen was born first off.
Well we know the drone did not have benefit of being undetected, like dog/ox alien. So really it did not have much time. It needed to start egg morphing right away - like the first alien did. The first alien, though, only had to deal with 6 people.
Well i mean its strange the Predator is alot diffrent than human or dog, being diffrent an alien might take more from it. because more might be useful and honsetly since we don't know waht a pure warrior alien would be, we don't know how diffrent this is from a pure alien
Just thought this could apply here in regards to the whole concept of "efficiency":
Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Oct 27, 2007, 09:48:09 PM
While the new predalien molting/regurgitation life cyle doesn't cause direct conflict with the current life cylce it also doesn't fit with what we've seen in previous movies. As I and Xenomorphine have already stated, where is the sense of having a "back up" method that is actually more efficient than the standard method?
Really i think the new method would be way more efficant for Hadley hope invasion and anyone of those people who bealive the scanners had over 100 (u know who you are) u can't say it was egg morphing
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 09:54:43 PM
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 09:48:20 PM
how could it "add" somthing that already exists?
If you view AVP as a prequel to ALIEN etc..then it's adding to the story.
The Predalien is also adding to the line of aliens we have already seen.
Wolf's badass role is adding to the Pred universe.
The new weapons (whip) is adding to the Pred universe
A new life-cycle is MAKING SHIT UP.
New traits that transfer over to Aliens is MAKING SHIT UP.
A Predator with Jedi powers would be MAKING SHIT UP. ;)
Eggs appearing from thin air is MAKING SHIT UP.
Cloning Ripley and the Queen with them taking traits of one another is MAKING SHIT UP.
Stating that Predators are an encient civilisation that gave us technology and used us as hosts for hunting aliens is MAKING SHIT UP.
So I don't quite see where are you going.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:08:09 PM
Well i mean its strange the Predator is alot diffrent than human or dog, being diffrent an alien might take more from it. because more might be useful and honsetly since we don't know waht a pure warrior alien would be, we don't know how diffrent this is from a pure alien
or the things that the dog and human aliens hav in common r because of the genetic similaritys between them, the mor different a beings(the pred's) dna is from humans, the mor different its gonna be.
in your oppion its making stuff up...by your standards Cameron;s Queen is making shit up
Quote from: Predator-S on Oct 27, 2007, 10:11:03 PM
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 09:54:43 PM
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 09:48:20 PM
how could it "add" somthing that already exists?
If you view AVP as a prequel to ALIEN etc..then it's adding to the story.
The Predalien is also adding to the line of aliens we have already seen.
Wolf's badass role is adding to the Pred universe.
The new weapons (whip) is adding to the Pred universe
A new life-cycle is MAKING SHIT UP.
New traits that transfer over to Aliens is MAKING SHIT UP.
A Predator with Jedi powers would be MAKING SHIT UP. ;)
Eggs appearing from thin air is MAKING SHIT UP.
Cloning Ripley and the Queen with them taking traits of one another is MAKING SHIT UP.
Stating that Predators are an encient civilisation that gave us technology and used us as hosts for hunting aliens is MAKING SHIT UP.
So I don't quite see where are you going.
creating a genetic hybrid of human and xenomorph thats not loyal to either(the newborn) is MAKING JUNK UP
Quote from: Predator-S on Oct 27, 2007, 10:11:03 PM
Stating that Predators are an encient civilisation that gave us technology and used us as hosts for hunting aliens is MAKING SHIT UP.
Yep, but imo in the hands of a craftsman this concept couldve been much better. Those who take these risks just have to "have it", like Jim and the queen.
wanna save alot of time just say adding anything is making junk up oh and not photocoping Alien is also
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 10:07:44 PM
Yeah but like I explained, it can't keep doing it. To create 12 aliens, you need 24 colonists. And in the beginning there is only one alien.
Yes, and like I said - hard to find. Large colony. Those used to host the bursters could then be turned into eggs themselves.
QuoteAlso, the drone born from Jordan has low probability to be a queen (if natural queens are made that way - by random egg).
Only if you want it to be.
QuoteThey are not going to ignore a creature that just killled one of their own.
You're assuming they can find it.
QuoteWell we know the drone did not have benefit of being undetected, like dog/ox alien. So really it did not have much time. It needed to start egg morphing right away - like the first alien did. The first alien, though, only had to deal with 6 people.
And the second Alien had to deal with 157 people, most of them fat lazy apathetic slobs, not to mention a whole host of kids and the like, in a large colony with routes of transportation the people wouldn't have known about, or thought to look.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:14:44 PM
wanna save alot of time just say adding anything is making junk up
The problem is its possible, those that dont get the pattern give up. Every so often some director comes along to a franchise and kicks the crap out of all of us. Those folks know the deal, they didnt give up.
Quote from: Predator-S on Oct 27, 2007, 10:11:03 PM
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 09:54:43 PM
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 09:48:20 PM
how could it "add" somthing that already exists?
If you view AVP as a prequel to ALIEN etc..then it's adding to the story.
The Predalien is also adding to the line of aliens we have already seen.
Wolf's badass role is adding to the Pred universe.
The new weapons (whip) is adding to the Pred universe
A new life-cycle is MAKING SHIT UP.
New traits that transfer over to Aliens is MAKING SHIT UP.
A Predator with Jedi powers would be MAKING SHIT UP. ;)
Eggs appearing from thin air is MAKING SHIT UP.
Cloning Ripley and the Queen with them taking traits of one another is MAKING SHIT UP.
Stating that Predators are an encient civilisation that gave us technology and used us as hosts for hunting aliens is MAKING SHIT UP.
So I don't quite see where are you going.
I never said that the other movies where perfect. However they didn't
CHANGE anything.
ALIEN RE was all about cloning and gene manipulation. That's why we see eight Ripleys, etc.
AVP:R is
CHANGING stuff. Why can't you see that?
ALIENS come from chestbusters, which come from facehuggers, which come from eggs, which comes from a Queen. It's that simple. DON'T CHANGE IT!
alien still come from chestburster, queens still lay eggs, but 2 protect a young queen she uses a fast but risky method, barfing
So, you want Aliens simple gotta on record don't worry....
it doesn't say they don't come from facehuggers they say they don;t have to big big big diffrence
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 10:19:21 PM
alien still come from chestburster, queens still lay eggs, but 2 protect a young queen she uses a fast but risky method, barfing
The Predalien is NOT a Queen.
Also, if you incorporate Egg-Morphing then Eggs don't have to come from Queens. Hence there are alternate ways of reproduction ensuring the survival of the Alien species.
Oh, to hell with this - I'm not gonna argue forever. I'm just gonna drink my rakiya and go to bed ^^
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:21:35 PM
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 10:19:21 PM
alien still come from chestburster, queens still lay eggs, but 2 protect a young queen she uses a fast but risky method, barfing
The Predalien is NOT a Queen.
You just come to the site, wake up read the fine print...it is buddy sorry to burst your bubble
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:23:02 PM
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:21:35 PM
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 10:19:21 PM
alien still come from chestburster, queens still lay eggs, but 2 protect a young queen she uses a fast but risky method, barfing
The Predalien is NOT a Queen.
You just come to the site, wake up read the fine print...it is buddy sorry to burst your bubble
w00t
Id just like to say the bad changes make things bad for the good changes. If anyone got that.
Good changes usually use something for a plot device or function that PAYS OFF wonderfully. Bad devices are tacky, and a whole lotta nonsense for little or no payoff.
Quote from: Spidey3121 on Oct 27, 2007, 10:21:46 PM
Also, if you incorporate Egg-Morphing then Eggs don't have to come from Queens. Hence there are alternate ways of reproduction ensuring the survival of the Alien species.
Still....facehuggers are needed. Barfing is ....... I have no words to describe how stupid this is.
how do you know this won't be used as a plot device...you don't know
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:24:48 PM
Quote from: Spidey3121 on Oct 27, 2007, 10:21:46 PM
Also, if you incorporate Egg-Morphing then Eggs don't have to come from Queens. Hence there are alternate ways of reproduction ensuring the survival of the Alien species.
Still....facehuggers are needed. Barfing is ....... I have no words to describe how stupid this is.
barfing is faster, facehugger r safer for the queen, y would the queen put herself in danger to barf when she could just throw countless facehuggers at a dangerous host? she uses barfing till she has a safe # of dornes, then uses the smarther method
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:23:02 PM
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:21:35 PM
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 10:19:21 PM
alien still come from chestburster, queens still lay eggs, but 2 protect a young queen she uses a fast but risky method, barfing
The Predalien is NOT a Queen.
You just come to the site, wake up read the fine print...it is buddy sorry to burst your bubble
I don't care what anyone says. Queens don't look that way.
Why should AVR:R be the one exception.
Now if the Predalien was a Carrier....that would have been OK. But a Queen? Never.
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:24:48 PM
Quote from: Spidey3121 on Oct 27, 2007, 10:21:46 PM
Also, if you incorporate Egg-Morphing then Eggs don't have to come from Queens. Hence there are alternate ways of reproduction ensuring the survival of the Alien species.
Still....facehuggers are needed. Barfing is ....... I have no words to describe how stupid this is.
man i love poping your bubble...its not that stupid...its quicker than facehugging and it is just like facehugging just with an alien...also it makes the alien better because it has more techinues to use agianst its prey. it expands while not destrying whats in place
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2007, 10:15:13 PM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 10:07:44 PM
Yeah but like I explained, it can't keep doing it. To create 12 aliens, you need 24 colonists. And in the beginning there is only one alien.
Yes, and like I said - hard to find. Large colony. Those used to host the bursters could then be turned into eggs themselves.
Ok, if it's done that way then you have no need for a Queen at all. You have made the Queen redundant, here. So what you are saying is to ignore all the sequels and only take Alien as canon.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:25:14 PM
how do you know this won't be used as a plot device...you don't know
Oh it is... but its not worth it... pure mouth sewage is never worth it. Just get ur lazy ass a facehugger people.
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:26:54 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:23:02 PM
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:21:35 PM
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 10:19:21 PM
alien still come from chestburster, queens still lay eggs, but 2 protect a young queen she uses a fast but risky method, barfing
The Predalien is NOT a Queen.
You just come to the site, wake up read the fine print...it is buddy sorry to burst your bubble
I don't care what anyone says. Queens don't look that way.
Why should AVR:R be the one exception.
obvoiusly like i said you haven't read the fine print its not a Queen yet its transforming into one as Colin said
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 27, 2007, 10:27:31 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:25:14 PM
how do you know this won't be used as a plot device...you don't know
Oh it is... but its not worth it... pure mouth sewage is never worth it. Just get ur lazy ass a facehugger people.
it'd be almost impossible to set up a hive, get hosts, and build up a hive safely...let me say a FEW reasons
Mr Wolf...The National Guard, Random people, slow egg laying time, slow facehugger getting a host time, slow facehugger on host time, slow gesation period, slow growth of chestburster, slow...do i need to go on?
Man, this is going forever...in circles.
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:26:54 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:23:02 PM
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:21:35 PM
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 10:19:21 PM
alien still come from chestburster, queens still lay eggs, but 2 protect a young queen she uses a fast but risky method, barfing
The Predalien is NOT a Queen.
You just come to the site, wake up read the fine print...it is buddy sorry to burst your bubble
I don't care what anyone says. Queens don't look that way.
Why should AVR:R be the one exception.
Now if the Predalien was a Carrier....that would have been OK. But a Queen? Never.
sorry pal, but colin told us. shes in her early stage.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:30:13 PM
Mr Wolf...The National Guard, Random people, slow egg laying time, slow facehugger getting a host time, slow facehugger on host time, slow gesation period, slow growth of chestburster, slow...do i need to go on?
Why are you telling me plot issues THEY should be taking care of? Its possible, they just need to find out how, not take a shortcut with this oh so appealing device.
yea...making a five hour movie with a large budget...or making a thirty minute fan film where the aliens come in and get slaughted because they can't reproduce
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:28:07 PM
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:26:54 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:23:02 PM
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:21:35 PM
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 10:19:21 PM
alien still come from chestburster, queens still lay eggs, but 2 protect a young queen she uses a fast but risky method, barfing
The Predalien is NOT a Queen.
You just come to the site, wake up read the fine print...it is buddy sorry to burst your bubble
I don't care what anyone says. Queens don't look that way.
Why should AVR:R be the one exception.
obvoiusly like i said you haven't read the fine print its not a Queen yet its transforming into one as Colin said
OK, OK. I see.
Because your daddy said so, then it MUST be true. ::)
I have read this entire thread. If YOU read through the posts, you'll my my posts throughout.
I live and breath ALIENS. I bet Colin doesn't spend half his time thinking about Aliens as I do. (yes, I am obsessed)
I have come to the conclusion that most of you are willing to accept ANYTHING that gets thrown your way. Good for you, don't think for yourselves. I hope you all are VERY happy with the movie.
Ignorance is bliss they say....ha, so true!
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:33:31 PM
yea...making a five hour movie with a large budget...or making a thirty minute fan film where the aliens come in and get slaughted because they can't reproduce
Look im not giving them the easy mode. The fathers of the franchise did it, lets not give the training wheels to these guys now.
Im not too rigid, its not even the basic idea of a shortcut that gets me.. its that it is PUKE. Incredible lol.
Id prefer they use AVPs speeded process more than this.
Quoteslow...do i need to go on?
There is nothing "slow" about the alien life cylce, the entire cycle from facehugging to fully grown adult takes only a handful of hours.
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:34:06 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:28:07 PM
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:26:54 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:23:02 PM
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:21:35 PM
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 10:19:21 PM
alien still come from chestburster, queens still lay eggs, but 2 protect a young queen she uses a fast but risky method, barfing
The Predalien is NOT a Queen.
You just come to the site, wake up read the fine print...it is buddy sorry to burst your bubble
I don't care what anyone says. Queens don't look that way.
Why should AVR:R be the one exception.
obvoiusly like i said you haven't read the fine print its not a Queen yet its transforming into one as Colin said
OK, OK. I see.
Because your daddy said so, then it MUST be true. ::)
I have read this entire thread. If YOU read through the posts, you'll my my posts throughout.
I have come to the conclusion that most of you are willing to accept ANYTHING that gets thrown your way. Good for you, don't think for yourselves. I hope you all are VERY happy with the movie.
Ignorance is bliss they say....ha, so true!
im pretty sur if any1 nos weather or not the predalien is a queen in this movie would be the director, not saying is cannon, but it is true, at least in this movie anyway
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 27, 2007, 10:34:49 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:33:31 PM
yea...making a five hour movie with a large budget...or making a thirty minute fan film where the aliens come in and get slaughted because they can't reproduce
Look im not giving them the easy mode. The fathers of the franchise did it, lets not give the training wheels to these guys now.
true its not really the easy route...its being creative...the easy route would say...Three months later...and be perfectly cannon for the little fragilue Alien lovers
now to FAcebox...i'm not accepting everything i get i'm taking wat i get...your ingnoring what they've said
your acting like someone who didn't make the movie is saying it...its the creator saying it and your trying to ingore it
another thing i don't understand is all these people saying "I'm not going to accept..." what you gonna do about it..."Daddy i don't like this!!!!" that's all u do
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:34:06 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:28:07 PM
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:26:54 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:23:02 PM
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:21:35 PM
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 10:19:21 PM
alien still come from chestburster, queens still lay eggs, but 2 protect a young queen she uses a fast but risky method, barfing
The Predalien is NOT a Queen.
You just come to the site, wake up read the fine print...it is buddy sorry to burst your bubble
I don't care what anyone says. Queens don't look that way.
Why should AVR:R be the one exception.
obvoiusly like i said you haven't read the fine print its not a Queen yet its transforming into one as Colin said
OK, OK. I see.
Because your daddy said so, then it MUST be true. ::)
I have read this entire thread. If YOU read through the posts, you'll my my posts throughout.
I have come to the conclusion that most of you are willing to accept ANYTHING that gets thrown your way. Good for you, don't think for yourselves. I hope you all are VERY happy with the movie.
Ignorance is bliss they say....ha, so true!
look pal, i agree it may be fake idea that he gave out, but there is so much evedens to say its a queen. also, dont insult people, just because people dont agree with you, baby has a tantrum. this is an online community, so dont try to destroy it >:(
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 10:36:23 PM
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:34:06 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:28:07 PM
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:26:54 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:23:02 PM
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:21:35 PM
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 10:19:21 PM
alien still come from chestburster, queens still lay eggs, but 2 protect a young queen she uses a fast but risky method, barfing
The Predalien is NOT a Queen.
You just come to the site, wake up read the fine print...it is buddy sorry to burst your bubble
I don't care what anyone says. Queens don't look that way.
Why should AVR:R be the one exception.
obvoiusly like i said you haven't read the fine print its not a Queen yet its transforming into one as Colin said
OK, OK. I see.
Because your daddy said so, then it MUST be true. ::)
I have read this entire thread. If YOU read through the posts, you'll my my posts throughout.
I have come to the conclusion that most of you are willing to accept ANYTHING that gets thrown your way. Good for you, don't think for yourselves. I hope you all are VERY happy with the movie.
Ignorance is bliss they say....ha, so true!
im pretty sur if any1 nos weather or not the predalien is a queen in this movie would be the director, not saying is cannon, but it is true, at least in this movie anyway
Not cannon = not true= nonsense.
Next thing you know ALIENS will be space demons and only the Ghost Busters will be able to stop them.
Come on people! This is a BAD idea.
to you because you bealive adding=noncannon thank god you weren't around when CAmeron made the Queen
in ur opinion its bad, i lik it and think it maks sence
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:38:08 PM
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 27, 2007, 10:34:49 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:33:31 PM
yea...making a five hour movie with a large budget...or making a thirty minute fan film where the aliens come in and get slaughted because they can't reproduce
Look im not giving them the easy mode. The fathers of the franchise did it, lets not give the training wheels to these guys now.
true its not really the easy route...its being creative...
Resident evil has puking zombies all over the place... this is NOT creativity.. its called the
LCD: Least Common Denominator. We already have a bunch of films that do that and routinely get stupid reviews. No thanks.
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:39:35 PM
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 10:36:23 PM
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:34:06 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:28:07 PM
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:26:54 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:23:02 PM
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:21:35 PM
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 10:19:21 PM
alien still come from chestburster, queens still lay eggs, but 2 protect a young queen she uses a fast but risky method, barfing
The Predalien is NOT a Queen.
You just come to the site, wake up read the fine print...it is buddy sorry to burst your bubble
I don't care what anyone says. Queens don't look that way.
Why should AVR:R be the one exception.
obvoiusly like i said you haven't read the fine print its not a Queen yet its transforming into one as Colin said
OK, OK. I see.
Because your daddy said so, then it MUST be true. ::)
I have read this entire thread. If YOU read through the posts, you'll my my posts throughout.
I have come to the conclusion that most of you are willing to accept ANYTHING that gets thrown your way. Good for you, don't think for yourselves. I hope you all are VERY happy with the movie.
Ignorance is bliss they say....ha, so true!
im pretty sur if any1 nos weather or not the predalien is a queen in this movie would be the director, not saying is cannon, but it is true, at least in this movie anyway
Not cannon = not true= nonsense.
Next thing you know ALIENS will be space demons and only the Ghost Busters will be able to stop them.
Come on people! This is a BAD idea.
from now on box, keep your oppinions to yourself. im a big alien fan to, but im willing to see new things
This whole thing is getting out of hand.
True other things have done it but with aliens it makes sense...and with good explanation and exacution could work out well
Quote from: brad873 on Oct 27, 2007, 10:42:57 PM
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:39:35 PM
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 10:36:23 PM
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:34:06 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:28:07 PM
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:26:54 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:23:02 PM
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:21:35 PM
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 10:19:21 PM
alien still come from chestburster, queens still lay eggs, but 2 protect a young queen she uses a fast but risky method, barfing
The Predalien is NOT a Queen.
You just come to the site, wake up read the fine print...it is buddy sorry to burst your bubble
I don't care what anyone says. Queens don't look that way.
Why should AVR:R be the one exception.
obvoiusly like i said you haven't read the fine print its not a Queen yet its transforming into one as Colin said
OK, OK. I see.
Because your daddy said so, then it MUST be true. ::)
I have read this entire thread. If YOU read through the posts, you'll my my posts throughout.
I have come to the conclusion that most of you are willing to accept ANYTHING that gets thrown your way. Good for you, don't think for yourselves. I hope you all are VERY happy with the movie.
Ignorance is bliss they say....ha, so true!
im pretty sur if any1 nos weather or not the predalien is a queen in this movie would be the director, not saying is cannon, but it is true, at least in this movie anyway
Not cannon = not true= nonsense.
Next thing you know ALIENS will be space demons and only the Ghost Busters will be able to stop them.
Come on people! This is a BAD idea.
from now on box, keep your oppinions to yourself. im a big alien fan to, but im willing to see new things
lol, look at the center of all the boxes above this...ooooooh... :o
QuoteThis whole thing is getting out of hand.
Such is the fate of most heated fan topics around here.
lol Yeah i didnt bother sorting that... i think that should be edited for coherence.
baby verison for you ;D
If they use it right it could work for aliens
why cant we all exept the predalien till the movie comes out
I am going to repost this because it seems to be in danger of being burried under mountains of bullshit.
QuoteThere is nothing "slow" about the alien life cylce, the entire cycle from facehugging to fully grown adult takes only a handful of hours.]
So please explain to me what is too slow with a life cycle that might take only 6 hours? Funnily enough Paul Anderson thought it would be a good idea to speed up the alien life cycle and he was crucified for it
Quote from: brad873 on Oct 27, 2007, 10:47:00 PM
why cant we all exept the predalien till the movie comes out
if we did people like FAcebox couldn' whine and act like they could do something about it
I'll be honest, I really don't like the idea of embryo vomiting, but at the same time I think it adds something to the Alien's unstoppable nature. The ability to Queen morph gives them a bit more depth and complexity.
I love the Aliens as they are, but for being the ultimate lifeform, they've got a pretty simple life cycle. You've got a Queen that lays eggs, the Facehuggers lay an embryo into their victims and an Alien is born. So if you by chance manage to kill the Queen, you've pretty much stopped the Aliens from spreading, unless there's still a Queenhugger around.
Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Oct 27, 2007, 10:47:46 PM
I am going to repost this because it seems to be in danger of being burried under mountains of bullshit.
QuoteThere is nothing "slow" about the alien life cylce, the entire cycle from facehugging to fully grown adult takes only a handful of hours.]
So please explain to me what is too slow with a life cycle that might take only 6 hours? Funnily enough Paul Anderson thought it would be a good idea to speed up the alien life cycle and he was crucified for it
Well he randomly speed it up to the Bros credit at least their doing something new not having the same thing with fastforward
Quote from: brad873 on Oct 27, 2007, 10:38:23 PM
look pal, i agree it may be fake idea that he gave out, but there is so much evedens to say its a queen. also, dont insult people, just because people dont agree with you, baby has a tantrum. this is an online community, so dont try to destroy it >:(
Implying that I didn't read "the fine print" was disrespectful to me. I only struck back.
Although I shouldn't have generalized my comment, it's like many people here will accept anything that's on screen. No matter how absurd it is. I mean...if you see a Smurf whooping a Predator or Aliens ass with a twig because it had the element of surprise... would you simply say, "Well, the Smurf DID get the jump on them"?
You can, but it's wouldn't make much sense.
Just because Colin says that that's what Queens do doesn't mean that I should accept it.
He's "the new guy" on the block, not me.
Quote from: Noir-Gojira on Oct 27, 2007, 10:45:28 PM
QuoteThis whole thing is getting out of hand.
Such is the fate of most heated fan topics around here.
It just seems like no one is going to convince people who believe the opposite of them. Then people start digging back + looking for evidence to support why they are correct or most times why others are wrong. As it goes on the evidence present becomes more obscure + less relevant to the actual topic at hand.
we may not like the vomiting idea, but remember, there aliens, they not like use and do the oddest things
any way, this topic is getting a bit long now, lets start it up again to separate the BS from the good stuff
i could have said your and idiot and masturbate to copies of alien? that's an insult,
now because the director is in charge of the next intstallment of the series...if we don't accept (maybe not like love enjoy it) what we gonna say, because i don't like this it didn't happen?
might as well say..."I don't like Hitler he didn't happen. he makes Germans look bad lets delete him"
second i'm jsut curois y people think their whineing will make Colin say "oh sorry lets go change that"
and third i'm not accepting what i'm giving i like the idea
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:48:21 PM
Quote from: brad873 on Oct 27, 2007, 10:47:00 PM
why cant we all exept the predalien till the movie comes out
if we did people like FAcebox couldn' whine and act like they could do something about it
I can say what I want. Just like you can say what you want.
Don't try to censor me.
Obviously you like the idea. Good for you.
I don't like it. Too bad for me.
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:54:42 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:48:21 PM
Quote from: brad873 on Oct 27, 2007, 10:47:00 PM
why cant we all exept the predalien till the movie comes out
if we did people like FAcebox couldn' whine and act like they could do something about it
I can say what I want. Just like you can say what you want.
Don't try to censor me.
not trying to censor you i'm arguring with you ;D ;D
QuoteWell he randomly speed it up to the Bros credit at least their doing something new not having the same thing with fastforward
Ahhh well as long as they're doing something new that's ok.
...
...
Wait a minute no, no it isn't. Anderson's sped up cycle is actually more faithful to the 'roots' of the creature and it wasn't "random", even if it did seem strange it was still explained by Anderson.
This is a strange analogy but I'm over tired so I'm in the mood for a bit of a ramble. Lets say you're making a film about the Incredible Hulk. You have decided that for your movie, it takes too long for Banner to "Hulk out" so do you;
1. Speed up the "Hulking out" process or
2. Completely change the process, maybe he drinks a potion like Jekyl/Hyde
Option 2 would piss off a lot of Incredible Hulk fans.
I find it's hilarious that most of the D.O.R.s (Defenders of Regurgitation), with the exception of a handful, totally ignore the arguments that people are presenting and climb up the bullsh!t mountain for justification...we present facts, they present nonsense and blindly accept it because they need this movie to be good like a cancer patient needs Chemotherapy...it's just sad...
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:53:38 PM
i could have said your and idiot and masturbate to copies of alien? that's an insult,
So now you're spying on me!?!? :o
LOL ;D
I realize that I took it a bit too far.
We'll just have to wait and see who's right after the box-office results come in.
Quote from: Gates on Oct 27, 2007, 10:57:43 PM
I find it's hilarious that most of the D.O.R.s (Defenders of Regurgitation), with the exception of a handful, totally ignore the arguments that people are presenting and climb up the bullsh!t mountain for justification...we present facts, they present nonsense and blindly accept it because they need this movie to be good like a cancer patient needs Chemotherapy...it's just sad...
Hhhh.... I'll just stick to what "we" know. If "they" want to accept this new concept, then good for them. At least "they'll" like the new movie. :-\
Quotebecause they need this movie to be good like a cancer patient needs Chemotherapy...it's just sad...
For the record, I'm of the opinion that chemo is potentially worse than the cancer itself; but I digress.
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:58:30 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:53:38 PM
i could have said your and idiot and masturbate to copies of alien? that's an insult,
So now you're spying on me!?!? :o
you have gained points in my book!!! *trys to stop laughing*
oh good "Hulk" point...also to the Bros credit we've never seen this part of a Queen's life...the Hulk we have seen it
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 11:00:53 PM
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:58:30 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:53:38 PM
i could have said your and idiot and masturbate to copies of alien? that's an insult,
So now you're spying on me!?!? :o
you have gained points in my book!!! *trys to stop laughing*
;)
I like this place. There's no need in making enemies right?
We all have our opinions here, including Colin. So untill Scott and Geiger team up again, we will always disagree.
Quote from: brad873 on Oct 27, 2007, 10:47:00 PM
why cant we all exept the predalien till the movie comes out
because it's INCREDIBLY stupid.
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:58:30 PM
We'll just have to wait and see who's right after the box-office results come in.
Thisll make millions and suck. Trust me.
My prediction:
i love the action and grit. The story is slasher garbage. Critics will hate it, audiences will love it in that ironic way they love bad films, cash galore, the franchise makes more money, for the wrong reasons AGAIN, thus bastardizing the franchise moreso.
Quote from: Xhan on Oct 27, 2007, 11:06:03 PM
Quote from: brad873 on Oct 27, 2007, 10:47:00 PM
why cant we all exept the predalien till the movie comes out
because it's INCREDIBLY stupid.
so U say, personally, i lov the idea
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 11:05:52 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 11:00:53 PM
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:58:30 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:53:38 PM
i could have said your and idiot and masturbate to copies of alien? that's an insult,
So now you're spying on me!?!? :o
you have gained points in my book!!! *trys to stop laughing*
;)
I like this place. There's no need in making enemies right?
We all have our opinions here, including Colin. So untill Scott and Geiger team up again, we will always disagree.
true, but honestly both sides have good points... and Giger is weird/awesome shall some inerviews with him
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 27, 2007, 11:06:53 PM
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 10:58:30 PM
We'll just have to wait and see who's right after the box-office results come in.
Thisll make millions and suck. Trust me.
My prediction:
i love the action and grit. The story is slasher garbage. The audience will like it, but as bad horror. Critics will hate it, audiences will love it in that ironic way they love bad films, cash galore, the franchise makes more money, for the wrong reasons AGAIN, thus bastardizing the franchise moreso.
Sad but true.
I think I better stick to collectibles. But they even messed that up with the new designs. :'(
Damn, I'll have to go to a mental asylum after I get through imagining the movies playing out the way I'd like them to.
Those woh cannot change will be left behind lol!!
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 11:13:34 PM
Those woh cannot change will be left behind lol!!
Not if they're already in a good place. ;)
Crocodilians where already around in the time of the dinosaurs. They haven't changed because they're already in a good place. I'm the same. ;D
Well, in this franchise the Aliens could use a little change to keep it from getting boreing aftyer 5 movies with the same thing...it could get old
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 11:19:04 PM
Well, in this franchise the Aliens could use a little change to keep it from getting boreing aftyer 5 movies with the same thing...it could get old
I'll be back to hear your opinions when they make a drastic change to the Predators.
;)
Depends on the change...i love both franchises man. really i'm surprised we haven't heard anything about them...at all.
this story works better with the new method..with the forced Earth approach this is what we get
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 27, 2007, 11:21:04 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 11:19:04 PM
Well, in this franchise the Aliens could use a little change to keep it from getting boreing aftyer 5 movies with the same thing...it could get old
I'll be back to hear your opinions when they make a drastic change to the Predators.
;)
i wouldnt mind, making mor changes 2 pred 2 mak them mor interesting is just fine
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 11:19:04 PM
Well, in this franchise the Aliens could use a little change to keep it from getting boreing aftyer 5 movies with the same thing...it could get old
I'm sure that's why they made the predalien do what it does in the movie I suppose.....I guess the directors thought the aliens needed a change to make them more mysterious and unknown.
And once again, it takes a pro to execute a change that makes it new while not being corny. Many are talking like this film just came across the next big breakthrough. Please.
A3 showed us the 4 legged runner. Someone has a brilliant new hybrid in their mind, and i bet we'll get all the crappy ones instead :(
I dont mind predaliens but man... details matter, especially after this news.
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 27, 2007, 11:25:32 PM
And once again, it takes a pro to execute a change that makes it new while not being corny.
A3 showed us the 4 legged runner. Someone has a brilliant new hybrid in their mind, and i bet we'll get all the crappy ones instead :(
whos 2 say it wont be playd awesomely? we'll hav 2 wait and c how its portraid
Don't judge the unseen
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 11:26:49 PM
whos 2 say it wont be playd awesomely? we'll hav 2 wait and c how its portraid
Any film that sells itself with a red band trailer with heads exploding and a swimfan looking cast has skill and precision in mind... im betting on it ;)
w00t
See you didnt even get the sarcasm there... because poeple actually say that seriously...
thats messed up lmao
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 27, 2007, 11:28:59 PM
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 11:26:49 PM
whos 2 say it wont be playd awesomely? we'll hav 2 wait and c how its portraid
Any film that sells itself with a red band trailer with heads exploding and a swimfan looking cast has skill and precision in mind... im betting on it ;)
could be trying to trick us...that's what sells that kinda stuff if they can trick people into it they might be surprised by having a good movie
This threads funny. But the movies not making shit up. Its not changing the lifecycle. All it is, is a new alternative. Egg morphing would take to long, and to slow. The egg implantation through the mouth is the fastest way and egg morphing wastes hosts.
What fascinates me is the selling point of the films. More more more. "Weve gone back to the roots, weve gotten rid of the recent stupidity", and the most lacking of this more formula is story mindedness.
"Double the canons...double the violence! Double the nastiness! its rated r like a MANS movie!"
I like the idea but wheres double the acting/dialogue/story quality? Thats what REAL men do with their action films.
QuoteThis threads funny. But the movies not making shit up. Its not changing the lifecycle. All it is, is a new alternative. Egg morphing would take to long, and to slow.
SWEET ZOMBIE JESUS.
The alien life cylce takes maybe 6 hours maximum. Add another 2-3 hours for egg morphing. a 6-9 hour life cycle from egg to adult is f**king
slow? Do you people suffer from ADD or something? Jesus titty f**king christ I am losing faith in the fanbase with every post on this forum.
Yeh, who knows how this egg implantation through the mouth is going to work out....could be interesting and new or it could be retarded and completely ruin how we see aliens to some......im 50/50 right now on the idea.
If it is really evil and scary, it will be gold.
Quote from: Alienseseses on Oct 27, 2007, 11:41:05 PM
If it is really evil and scary, it will be gold.
If its brainless itll be fools gold lol
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 27, 2007, 11:41:29 PM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Oct 27, 2007, 11:41:05 PM
If it is really evil and scary, it will be gold.
Fools gold lol
We'll wait and see...i mean i'll wait and se...others will shoot it down with Old Painless
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 27, 2007, 11:41:29 PM
If its brainless itll be fools gold lol
hahaha, clever my friend
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 11:42:08 PM
We'll wait and see...i mean i'll wait and se...others will shoot it down with Old Painless
I'm with ya on that buddy ;)
this ruined the movie for me....
if chet regurgitates embryso inside host mouth, why not regurgitate them to the floor savign the need of a host?
if they could do this why did they even lay eggs? it takes much more work,.....
eggs could be fine for near extinction....but in aliens im sure they didnt took every single host to the queen to regurgitate on theyr mouth....nor in avp...
shoudlnt be related to pred reprodcution, i mean queen in aliens layed eggs just like we humans do........or may she came from a chicken?
still preds mayn ot even have DNA and alein react diferently to it.....still......i dont like it!
if it is eggmorphing its ok i guess....
wait a sec....whos gonna say its 1st April?.........i really hope it is........
maybe theyr doing this just to torture us? (why bother.......this will suck ass even if it is egg morphing....)
pukeing on the floor no where to grow
Shit dude, why not just have Chet puke up chest bursters? It's quicker, and it's never been shown that it can't be done! ::)
yeh the embryos would need to feed, so thats why when the embryos are in the host they can feed off the human and grow
Quote from: Nightmare on Oct 27, 2007, 11:53:42 PM
this ruined the movie for me....
if chet regurgitates embryso inside host mouth, why not regurgitate them to the floor savign the need of a host?
if they could do this why did they even lay eggs? it takes much more work,.....
eggs could be fine for near extinction....but in aliens im sure they didnt took every single host to the queen to regurgitate on theyr mouth....nor in avp...
shoudlnt be related to pred reprodcution, i mean queen in aliens layed eggs just like we humans do........or may she came from a chicken?
still preds mayn ot even have DNA and alein react diferently to it.....still......i dont like it!
if it is eggmorphing its ok i guess....
wait a sec....whos gonna say its 1st April?.........i really hope it is........
maybe theyr doing this just to torture us? (why bother.......this will suck ass even if it is egg morphing....)
If u believe the anchorpoint essay, chet is vomiting a virus, not an embryo.
The vomit method is dangerous for the queen and the eggs can be dispersed and can be produced quicker.
Cocoon people. Barf up burster. No need for annoying gestation period.
And I really don't get what Xenomorphine means by the image of Chet barfing being iconic. It's way too late in the game for a monster vomiting on someone to be iconic.
Unless it's an icon of all that ever went wrong with the franchise.
From all of these details, Im expecting a lot of satanic metal with this films soundtrack, thus screwing up another aspect.
Stop thinking it as vomit...think of it as rape...because it is rape
Wait, whats the point in having eggs at all, when Aliens can just barf up embryos, surely that would save the queen the trouble of shitting out a tousand eggs a day, and is probably faster, then she wouldnt be so busy, and could spruce up the hive a bit, maybe ave some ambience here.... a nice painting there, hell maybe even a family portrait
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 12:01:10 AM
Stop thinking it as vomit...think of it as rape...because it is rape
It's barf rape. It's nowhere near the same as, say, a face-hugger doing it.
Quote from: Dachande on Oct 28, 2007, 12:01:20 AM
Wait, whats the point in having eggs at all, when Aliens can just barf up embryos, surely that would save the queen the trouble of shitting out a tousand eggs a day, and is probably faster, then she wouldnt be so busy, and could spruce up the hive a bit, maybe ave some ambience here.... a nice painting there, hell maybe even a family portrait
1, again, if u believe the anchorpoint essay, chet is barfing up the virus that initiate the developent of a chestburster, lik the facehuggers do(maks sence since it provides proof of the dna reflex since the burster if formd from the hosts cells, and since the embryo doent form in the esophogus or the windpipe or it would be discovered befor its bursting), second, the vomit method puts the queen in a dangerous situation, having 2 be so close to a potentally dangerous host, PLUS, eggs r quicker, and they can be moved or hav hosts brought to them.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 12:04:47 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 12:01:10 AM
Stop thinking it as vomit...think of it as rape...because it is rape
It's barf rape. It's nowhere near the same as, say, a face-hugger doing it.
its prefacehugger, and still rape
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 28, 2007, 12:00:21 AM
From all of these details, Im expecting a lot of satanic metal with this films soundtrack, thus screwing up another aspect.
satanic metal is good :)
but not for this kind of movie! :P
--------------------------------------------------
maybe in aliens the queen did that (vomit) , but when there were no more hosts she started egg laying cause they woudl all eventually die of old age.....
then newt had an egg in front of her just to test them and cause te queen was being more productive than if she went directly implant newt......maybe she wasnt even able to do it anymore since she molted....
then AR is just f**ked up cause of human DNA, and in avp preds had a molted queen which couldnt anymore vomit embryos cause of having molted.....
------------
it could fit.......but......no....it sux much more than egg laying......
lets plan a terrorism atack to FOX main building? or maybe "regurgitate" in the directors mouth to see if ruining a great franchise tastes good?
IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY....Anyone remember the concept art for Alien3 where the Giger was thinking about having the alien put it's tounge in Ripley's mouth instead of just having the alien put its tounge out at her? ? ? ?
Maybe thats how Chet will impregnate its hosts or something, because that's basically like rape.
Thoughts? ? ?
Quote from: Dachande on Oct 28, 2007, 12:01:20 AM
Wait, whats the point in having eggs at all, when Aliens can just barf up embryos, surely that would save the queen the trouble of shitting out a tousand eggs a day, and is probably faster, then she wouldnt be so busy, and could spruce up the hive a bit, maybe ave some ambience here.... a nice painting there, hell maybe even a family portrait
Haven't really followed this thread, so this is just my theory. At an early stage, when the Queen doesn't have an Eggsack yet and is able to produce eggs, she takes over the part of infesting hosts herself. But once fully grown she lets the Facehuggers do the job.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 12:07:32 AM
its prefacehugger, and still rape
And it's going to be laughable with Chet's oversized mandibles clamping down on someone's face and his whole f**k-up of a body shuddering over it.
Quote from: Nightmare on Oct 28, 2007, 12:09:39 AM
then AR is just f**ked up cause of human DNA,
Again; it went through its
natural reproductive cycle first.
Laughable for you Sil if your too full of it to notice it could be scary
Quote from: PatrinAVP11 on Oct 28, 2007, 12:12:52 AM
IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY....Anyone remember the concept art for Alien3 where the Giger was thinking about having the alien put it's tounge in Ripley's mouth instead of just having the alien put its tounge out at her? ? ? ?
Yep I remember that and I cringed at that idea.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 12:19:05 AM
Laughable for you Sil if your too full of it to notice it could be scary
But I don't find Chet scary. How can I find the scene scary if I'm too busy laughing at her hideous design? If it looked more like an Alien and less like a second rate emaciated bobble-headed Predator, yeah, I'd think it could be scary.
But as it stands the PredAlien looks like ass and ADI has yet to make anything of theirs re the Alien movies, post
Alien 3, look anywhere scary.
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 28, 2007, 12:20:30 AM
Yep I remember that and I cringed at that idea.
you cringed at an idea from Giger...there is hope for alien fans...but i think that would have been really creepy...
Sil sil sil...to full of it to give it a chance on screen then...
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 12:21:04 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 12:19:05 AM
Laughable for you Sil if your too full of it to notice it could be scary
But I don't find Chet scary. How can I find the scene scary if I'm too busy laughing at her hideous design? If it looked more like an Alien and less like a second rate emaciated bobble-headed Predator, yeah, I'd think it could be scary.
But as it stands the PredAlien looks like ass and ADI has yet to make anything of theirs re the Alien movies, post Alien 3, look anywhere scary.
SiL, you're an Alien fan. Like the rest of us you spend most of these movies waiting for the creatures you love 'oh so much' to come on. You don't find them scarey.
Then general public find them scarey though, and will find that scene scarey.
The only thing that scares us fans are the 'jumpy bits', the creatures themselves are the jewels of the movies for us.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 12:22:29 AM
you cringed at an idea from Giger...there is hope for alien fans
Yeah I did... i got the Alien Collectors editions 1-3 and I've seen his ideas. The man needs to be filtered. Luckily on those films he was, by smart directors.
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 28, 2007, 12:25:15 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 12:22:29 AM
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 28, 2007, 12:20:30 AM
Yep I remember that and I cringed at that idea.
you cringed at an idea from Giger...there is hope for alien fans
Yeah I did... i got the Alien Collectors editions 1-3 and I've seen his ideas. The man needs to be filtered. Luckily on those films he was, by smart directors.
He's got a messed up mind lol...but a vaiuble one...i atually think that could have worked, been scary but that's jsut me
i read the first 18 pages of this, so forgive me if someone already said this - no one gives a crap. no one who makes movies gives a crap. cameron wanted to make his movie. he didn't care about what ridley's meant. if he did, there would have been no story. it was painfully obvious for everyone that fincher didn't care about what cameron had set up. alien 3 is almost my favorite of the series, but its skill and craftmanship from a movie-making perspective has been totally overshadowed by its direct 90 degree turn of story. i guess the point i'm trying to make is that no one cares about canon. every director wants to do their take, their movie. every writer writes their alien movie. this stuff is not as big to anyone, but us. and god knows even if we had the money and organization to get together and make our own alien movie, we'd never get it done because no one could agree on anything (it would just be sil and i ready to throw punches at everyone else because we "know" our ideas are the only ones that are right). i wouldn't wish it on anybody, let alone fellow fans of the franchise, to have to navigate this huge mess of continuity and rules and sub-rules for the alien character's behavior and life cycle. if we've re-instated the egg-morphing from alien, then should we also assume that cameron's albino mini aliens were just unseen in aliens and they still exist? where do we stop?
that said - the strause bros. are as close as we will ever get to having a fanboy alien/predator flick. no respectable, established director will ever make an alien movie again. period. its become a hackneyed, shitty mess. it's become b-movie - due in large part to anderson and whedon. i can't blame jean pierre for not knowing any better. so which would YOU rather have? someone who doesn't care at all, or someone who just doesn't care quite as much as you do? i'm quietly resigning myself to the fact that i will not like this movie. i won't. i HATE the predalien. the character, the execution - horrible, in my opinion. but when it comes down to it - these guys are our best bet, maybe our last chance. if they want to do something new - fine. every other director has done the same, by varying degrees. they've gone back and retrieved boatloads more for this movie than anyone else has cared to. out of love. for the movies and other fans like them. everything everyone's saying about this movie could be said for EVERY other alien movie.
Quote from: Aeus on Oct 28, 2007, 12:24:30 AM
SiL, you're an Alien fan. Like the rest of us you spend most of these movies waiting for the creatures you love 'oh so much' to come on. You don't find them scarey.
I still get chills watching
Alien and
Aliens.
QuoteThen general public find them scarey though, and will find that scene scarey.
The primary audience is going to be late teens. They're not going to find it scary. They're going to laugh.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 12:26:12 AM
He's got a messed up mind lol...but a vaiuble one...i atually think that could have worked, been scary but that's jsut me
Had they not filtered him, lets just say they wouldnt be able to make toys of these creatures ;) LOL
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 28, 2007, 12:28:10 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 12:26:12 AM
He's got a messed up mind lol...but a vaiuble one...i atually think that could have worked, been scary but that's jsut me
Had they not filtered him, lets just say they wouldnt be able to make toys of these creatures ;) LOL
i know that!!
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 28, 2007, 12:28:10 AM
Had they not filtered him, lets just say they wouldnt be able to make toys of these creatures ;) LOL
On the contrary...they could have made toys, just of an adult fashion and battery powered... ;D
Quote from: Gates on Oct 28, 2007, 12:33:07 AM
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 28, 2007, 12:28:10 AM
Had they not filtered him, lets just say they wouldnt be able to make toys of these creatures ;) LOL
On the contrary...they could have made toys, just of an adult fashion and battery powered... ;D
YOU BEAT ME TO IT GATES!!!! ;D
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 12:34:01 AM
YOU BEAT ME TO IT GATES!!!! ;D
I'm in it to win it mudda fu<kers! ;D
Quote from: Gates on Oct 28, 2007, 12:36:45 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 12:34:01 AM
YOU BEAT ME TO IT GATES!!!! ;D
I'm in it to win it mudda fu<kers! ;D
Well you won...lets wait to be censored *tapes toes* wow...no censoring?
ooh, nice...this thread has 1172 replys(counting this 1)
Quote from: ridetofight on Oct 28, 2007, 12:26:28 AM
i read the first 18 pages of this, so forgive me if someone already said this - no one gives a crap. no one who makes movies gives a crap. cameron wanted to make his movie. he didn't care about what ridley's meant. if he did, there would have been no story. it was painfully obvious for everyone that fincher didn't care about what cameron had set up. alien 3 is almost my favorite of the series, but its skill and craftmanship from a movie-making perspective has been totally overshadowed by its direct 90 degree turn of story. i guess the point i'm trying to make is that no one cares about canon. every director wants to do their take, their movie. every writer writes their alien movie. this stuff is not as big to anyone, but us. and god knows even if we had the money and organization to get together and make our own alien movie, we'd never get it done because no one could agree on anything (it would just be sil and i ready to throw punches at everyone else because we "know" our ideas are the only ones that are right). i wouldn't wish it on anybody, let alone fellow fans of the franchise, to have to navigate this huge mess of continuity and rules and sub-rules for the alien character's behavior and life cycle. if we've re-instated the egg-morphing from alien, then should we also assume that cameron's albino mini aliens were just unseen in aliens and they still exist? where do we stop?
that said - the strause bros. are as close as we will ever get to having a fanboy alien/predator flick. no respectable, established director will ever make an alien movie again. period. its become a hackneyed, shitty mess. it's become b-movie - due in large part to anderson and whedon. i can't blame jean pierre for not knowing any better. so which would YOU rather have? someone who doesn't care at all, or someone who just doesn't care quite as much as you do? i'm quietly resigning myself to the fact that i will not like this movie. i won't. i HATE the predalien. the character, the execution - horrible, in my opinion. but when it comes down to it - these guys are our best bet, maybe our last chance. if they want to do something new - fine. every other director has done the same, by varying degrees. they've gone back and retrieved boatloads more for this movie than anyone else has cared to. out of love. for the movies and other fans like them. everything everyone's saying about this movie could be said for EVERY other alien movie.
Well said.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 12:28:01 AM
Quote from: Aeus on Oct 28, 2007, 12:24:30 AM
SiL, you're an Alien fan. Like the rest of us you spend most of these movies waiting for the creatures you love 'oh so much' to come on. You don't find them scarey.
I still get chills watching Alien and Aliens.
I found Alien scarey. f**king scarey. The rest, no way. I was waiting for the creature to come on screen.
That tingling feeling? Thats what I like to call a
Nerdgasm. One feels such a feeling when they see something of great awesomeness in something they like alot.
For me, such a feeling occurs when you first see the Derelict. Gotta love that 'what the f**k' moment.
I highly doubt you are still scared by these creatures. After scrutinising ever scene and image of the Alien probably ever released, you are probably very accustomed to thier presence onscreen.
Quote from: Gates on Oct 28, 2007, 12:33:07 AM
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 28, 2007, 12:28:10 AM
Had they not filtered him, lets just say they wouldnt be able to make toys of these creatures ;) LOL
On the contrary...they could have made toys, just of an adult fashion and battery powered... ;D
hahaha... dude. gnarly. unsanitary. thats awesome. and horrible. i wish i didn't think thats as funny as i do.
Quote from: Aeus on Oct 28, 2007, 12:38:08 AM
I highly doubt you are still scared by these creatures. After scrutinising ever scene and image of the Alien probably ever released, you are probably very accustomed to thier presence onscreen.
What the first two
Alien movies really have going for them is immersion. That, and the directors are good at what they do. I may not like
Aliens much, or Cameron's movies by and large, but he knows how to create tension - I had to watch the film about five times before my body finally stopped getting tense in the Operations firefight.
Those movies reeled you in, and then sent you through hell with the characters. Dallas in the vents still creeps me out, as does Parker and Lambert's death. The last half hour of
Aliens is just as effective today as it was the first time I saw it, simply cos the filmmakers knew what the f**k they were on about, which is more than can be said for most others.
So i'm guessing everyone hates this movie. How funny.
this is the Bros First movie...no judging now
The predalien reminds me of something that Goku would fight on DBZ.
Goku would really be in trouble when he underestimated the power of the predaliens super sneak attack facial implanting by barf move.
To me its more the idea that what else are they going to add to the aliens? The DNA reflex thing was mentioned by the original creators of the film. So Fincher just reestablished that in his film, he didn't add it on a move of his own.
Cameron did indeed create the queen, but the queen was a step in hierarchy that explained something evidenced in the first film. We knew there were eggs in the original. We see a ship stock full with them. We didn't (or the vast majority didn't) know where they came from. Logical step.
I even find Alien Res forgivable in that it was human experimentation that affected the aliens so. Not any natural process they "hid" through the first three movies.
The adding of natural hidden abilities of young queens seems supeflourous, especially when you had an ability that hasn't been used, but could be used in much the same regard and one that people had known about since the original movie in the egging process.
I just makes you wonder. If AvP had predator flesh colored aliens, and AvP R will have super loogy infections, will AvP 3 have the predalien doing cartwheels shooting Ki blast out of its palms that we didn't see before in previous movies because it didn't need to use them? I know thats over the top, but several steps from now, thats the kind of stuff that will have to happen to keep ideas that are "fresh."
You expand logically on a franchise, take evidence from previous films in the series, use it as support for your film, come up with something new that way. You don't invent stuff to be cool. Its what made the later comic lines unbearable to read.
Super loogy hocking today, whats tomorrow? The day after?
Its already bordering on absurd right now. To many more abilities and it'll be the same situation that Carey faced after DNA War. Useless abilities added to the aliens that gave them no advantage and progressed the story in no way whatsoever.
Wipe away the wow factor and what else do you have? Very little.
Just a phlegmy alien.
Quote from: Plokoon111 on Oct 28, 2007, 12:47:36 AM
So i'm guessing everyone hates this movie. How funny.
seems lik it, i may be the minority but i think this movie is gonna rok
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 12:49:45 AM
this is the Bros First movie...no judging now
First or last it doesn't matter. I know who's going to die how for the majority of the leads, and while watching the movie it's not going to be too much of a leap to figure out when they're going to die. 'Hm, this environment looks familiar - Isn't she about to die now? Oh, yup, there you go.'
Already they've shot themselves in the foot with that. And the military sequences? We know they get their asses handed to them.
Knowing itself isn't so bad - You know who's going to die when if you rewatch a movie - except knowing so far ahead of time removes the tension and instead encourages the audience to count the seconds to the next big bloody sequence that they saw in the trailer. You lose the apprehension of the unknown and get stuck with waiting for that bit you saw online to finally happen on the big screen.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 12:47:21 AM
Quote from: Aeus on Oct 28, 2007, 12:38:08 AM
I highly doubt you are still scared by these creatures. After scrutinising ever scene and image of the Alien probably ever released, you are probably very accustomed to thier presence onscreen.
What the first two Alien movies really have going for them is immersion. That, and the directors are good at what they do. I may not like Aliens much, or Cameron's movies by and large, but he knows how to create tension - I had to watch the film about five times before my body finally stopped getting tense in the Operations firefight.
Those movies reeled you in, and then sent you through hell with the characters. Dallas in the vents still creeps me out, as does Parker and Lambert's death. The last half hour of Aliens is just as effective today as it was the first time I saw it, simply cos the filmmakers knew what the f**k they were on about, which is more than can be said for most others.
Okay. You got me there.
I have to say I take Predator over Aliens in terms of tension, but Alien is a class above. In a league of its own.
Aside from reminising over past movies, what's to say that AVP-R won't be like this? Won't have lots of tension in it. Sure, when it comes to the Predalien you be flagilating yourself with a prosthetic Giger Alien's tongue in repent for viewing such a monstrosity, but when it's over there may be loads of tension flying around. Who knows?
I mean, Alien, Predator and Aliens had tension in them. Buckets of it. And thats where the film makers are drawing thier inspiration from. So it's not a long shot. Be optimistic.
But I can't be optomistic when I think the directors are idiots (no offense) :(
I think the new life cycle was their surprise...wonder what else they got up thier selaves to make people bicker
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 12:56:46 AM
I think the new life cycle was their surprise...wonder what else they got up thier selaves to make people bicker
ha! the scary part is how true that statement is
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 12:56:46 AM
I think the new life cycle was their surprise...wonder what else they got up thier selaves to make people bicker
Tomorrow it will be announced: Robert Rodriguez is this close from inheriting this franchise for AVP3.
That could rule.
lol, oh i got it....Colin: There is a Predator love sceen...seems the Wolf is a player!!!
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 28, 2007, 01:00:55 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 12:56:46 AM
I think the new life cycle was their surprise...wonder what else they got up thier selaves to make people bicker
Tomorrow it will be announced: Robert Rodriguez is this close from inheriting this franchise for AVP3.
A Grindhouse Presents title! YIPEE!!! :P
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 12:56:11 AM
But I can't be optomistic when I think the directors are idiots (no offense) :(
Well I spose if you think you shat on you through thier various actions, then thiers no changing your mind.
Me however, I liked the Alien FILMS, the creature was a bonus. So having the Predator creature that I love wade through hordes of assailants both human and Alien is heaven. :P
On a serious note, I hope one day someone makes a film which is basically Anytime versus Kane's Son with characters reminiscent of Alien 3's thrown in the mix. One on One AVP is what I dream about. But it will never happen.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 01:01:32 AM
That could rule.
What was his Predator 3 script like, I've never seen it.
His Predator 3 script has never been released. I loved to get a copy though.
a one on one could happen...it is unlikey...but possible
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 09:37:25 PM
Why then in Aliens did she summon her guards? Why not just take out Ripley herself?
Why
should she? Ripley was obviously going to set one of the eggs off - just as she did. The Queen was simply thinking Ripley was going to act like any other animal.
Wild animals would not have guns. Any natural organism would have set off the eggs. As we saw with Miller, if one facehugger is destroyed, a signal is sent out to induce a swarm.
Wasps do something similar. Facehuggers dying either produce a pheremone, telepathic signal or something else. The fact is, no natural intruder would stand a chance in the hive.
Technology is what gave Ripley an edge and that's not something evolution tends to takes into consideration.
QuoteAlien was meant to work on it's own without the idea of queens. If the alien wanted to produce a queen - why was it morphing Dallas as well? Shouldn't Dallas have been used as a host for the queen-hugger?
No, Ripley probably was. That's assuming, of course, that the creature did not simply think more humans would eventually come along.
There are reasons for why two cocoons were made. For instance, Brett was dead. Perhaps the Alien had a need to breed, but realised doing so to the corpse was basically producing the equivelant of a 'still-birth', so to speak. Or perhaps it simply felt that two would produce better genetic variation.
Heck, perhaps it was following the above rule: If the facehugger was able to be stopped at the last moment, then a second would be needed to overpower the opponent. That's biological common sense.
Quote from: Aeus on Oct 27, 2007, 09:40:20 PM
The only reason I can see for the whole regurgitation thing is that the Aliens need new Aliens fast, and noone can lay eggs, and egg morphing takes too long, so they do the regurgitation thing the impregnate people fast without the need for eggs. More dangerous yes, because they could get killed in the whole raping process but more efficient than egg morphing.
Then why didn't the Nostromo Alien do that? If it had the ability, it might as well have used it. Sure, we could say Lambert's fate was precisely that, but why not Dallas?
In other words, what was
stopping it?
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 09:44:09 PM
Seriously, though, how did Aliens happen? We only saw one guy get facehugged - so only one drone. The queen takes at least a few days to grow and start laying eggs (as mentioned in A:R). All this time - if the drone goes around abducting people - turning them into eggs - it is wasting potential hosts for more aliens (1:1 ratio - egg morph to host). It does not explain how Hadley's was overrun so quickly. So yeah, it could just hang around and protect the queen - but it would be hunted by the colonists the whole time. The colonists had weapons they could've taken down a single alien.
You're assuming that the first cocoon would not have been specifically to get a Queen; in which case, there would only have been a single egg metamorphasis required. Or that Newt's own father did not get a natural Queen.
It only takes one.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 09:52:55 PM
ingnore, he knew its there and was smart enough to ask
"What would aliens do if they didn't have time to eggmorph and had no other way to make a Queen." at least he is thinking...
The problem is that they should have
then asked themselves, "OK, Method X works fine - what was preventing the Nostromo Alien from doing it?"
It isn't as if the Predalien is running around with a stopwatch and schedule in hand. It can
afford to wait. The town, sewers and woods are massive and have plenty of places to hide. If anything, the town affords it a luxury of surplus time, not less of it.
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 27, 2007, 09:56:10 PM
so if u lik the idea they're adding, if u dont, there making junk up right?
No, because I happen to like the new concept. It just frustrates me, because there's no way for it to co-exist with pre-existing stuff -
which we were all assured would be preserved.
It's basically something they come up with for a cool effect. They just didn't appear to think through the consequences of it.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 27, 2007, 10:07:44 PM
Yeah but like I explained, it can't keep doing it. To create 12 aliens, you need 24 colonists. And in the beginning there is only one alien.
Also, the drone born from Jordan has low probability to be a queen (if natural queens are made that way - by random egg).
No, you either have a Queen hatching from the rescue party or a single egg transformation which is done specifically to
obtain them a Queen.
This method would be great if egging was to get Queens and this was meant to get regulars, but the thing's transforming into a Queen, which makes that impossible.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:10:57 PM
Really i think the new method would be way more efficant for Hadley hope invasion and anyone of those people who bealive the scanners had over 100 (u know who you are) u can't say it was egg morphing
We can if only one was required or the rescue party brought a Queen with them.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:30:13 PM
it'd be almost impossible to set up a hive, get hosts, and build up a hive safely...let me say a FEW reasons
Mr Wolf...The National Guard, Random people, slow egg laying time, slow facehugger getting a host time, slow facehugger on host time, slow gesation period, slow growth of chestburster, slow...do i need to go on?
Unless we're dealing with accelerated gestation time from the oral method, the alleged slowness factor still comes into play, regardless.
As others have pointed out, egg transformation is
not slow. How in the world are all these people going to know where to look? The only reason the Predator seems to is because the Predalien is going out on this breeding frenzy rampage and drawing attention to itself.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 27, 2007, 10:33:31 PM
yea...making a five hour movie with a large budget...or making a thirty minute fan film where the aliens come in and get slaughted because they can't reproduce
That's what egging is for. That's what obtaining Queens
through egging is for.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 12:00:11 AM
Cocoon people. Barf up burster. No need for annoying gestation period.
And I really don't get what Xenomorphine means by the image of Chet barfing being iconic. It's way too late in the game for a monster vomiting on someone to be iconic.
Unless it's an icon of all that ever went wrong with the franchise.
As a horror visual, I think the image of the Predalien forcing someone to open their mouth, then forcing its own inner down their throat, holding them down, extending right down into their chest cavity, is going to be very much in line with the sort of atmosphere '
Alien' was famous for. It's exactly the sort of stomach-churning reproduction method expected of a Giger-influenced project.
If it's done
right, it could look and feel very horrific. Remember Ripley and the facehugger, in '
Aliens'? It'll be like if that thing managed to succeed and we saw it doing its thing with the legs and pouches held away.
However, as we agree on, making people into eggs is
more of an agonising fate and makes the creature
less like anything we know. While the visual, I'm sure, could be astounding, it goes
against the egging method and runs counter to natural Queens.
I've tried twisting and turning it my head, every which way. The closest I've come up with to make this work is that egging might function early on in their life, with oral coming into things later. But adding the Queen dimension into things... That's what f**ks everything up.
Would moulting have worked, post-'
Aliens'? Yeah. But this is 2007, not 1992. We've
had precedents for how Queens function and this isn't it.
As groovy and horrific and efficient as the new method is, we're past the stage where this makes any logical sense. The
only way for it to do so, would be to ignore the last two '
Alien' sequels and that's not going to happen.
The only way this can be salvaged is if we don't see 100% proof of the Predalien turning into a definite Queen. If we don't have that, then there's room to
maybe get this straightened out.
If it transforms, I'll still watch the film, but I'll do so with a heavy heart, because this could have been so much better.
Aliens are not Tyranids. This makes them that.
Also, one last point... If '
Empire' magazine is correct and not making stuff up, this is taking place in 2007. If this is the same Predalien as last time, what was preventing it from transforming into a Queen, all of this time?
Queen should not be over used...i don't want Queens to be boreing...if there was one in this one it would be "hey look a Queen...who cares."
QuoteAliens are not Tyranids. This makes them that.
A what?
Alien species in a board game.
And once more Xenomorphine sums everything up perfectly. Except the 'iconic' bit.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 01:20:46 AM
Alien species in a board game.
Okey doke.
Quote
And once more Xenomorphine sums everything up perfectly. Except the 'iconic' bit.
I thought he hit the nail on the head to be honest. As long as the shot captures just its head sans dreadlocks, I think it'll be great.
You've still got the oversized slapped-on-at-the-last-second mandibles.
Quote from: Aeus on Oct 28, 2007, 01:15:44 AM
A what?
Tyranids are the Alien creature rip-off from '
Warhammer'. They're actually quite a cool concept. They come in massive hive ships, seed entire worlds with biological spores, watch all these grotesque monstrosities arise and then let them literally eat and consume
everything. The entire world is eaten up and converted into 'biomass'. All the creatures are then genetically programmed to head towards these vast 'digestion pools', where they basically get consumed, in turn. Everything basically becomes this massive, organic soup, which the hive ships take in and scan all the gathered genetic material for improvements.
Genestealers are these four-armed things which look
very much like an Alien. They reproduce by
forcing embryos down victim's throats...
The latter is why I think the directors have been influenced by it and are basically turning the Alien into a Genestealer.
This is still an open field and because that's the way they did it in the other two doesn't mean that is the only way...Aliens are adaptable
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 28, 2007, 01:29:04 AM
Quote from: Aeus on Oct 28, 2007, 01:15:44 AM
A what?
Tyranids are the Alien creature rip-off from 'Warhammer'. They're actually quite a cool concept. They come in massive hive ships, seed entire worlds with biological spores, watch all these grotesque monstrosities arise and then let them literally eat and consume everything. The entire world is eaten up and converted into 'biomass'. All the creatures are then genetically programmed to head towards these vast 'digestion pools', where they basically get consumed, in turn. Everyhting basically becomes this massive, organic soup, which the hive ships take in and scan all the gathered genetic material for improvements.
Genestealers are these four-armed things which look very much like an Alien. They reproduce by forcing embryos down victim's throats...
The latter is why I think the directors have been influenced by it and are basically turning the Alien into a Genestealer.
Oh
Warhammer. My friend does that, pays like 50 quid for a small peice of metal. Some of the stories are good though, no mention of Aliens in his stuff though, just big minotauresque looking fellas.
But yeah, Minotaurs aside, it does sound like the Strauses got thier idea for Chets new talents from this Genestealer. They may play the game perhaps.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 01:28:41 AM
You've still got the oversized slapped-on-at-the-last-second mandibles.
There. Is. No. Pleasing. You. >:(
^ And thats what I like about the aliens, you can't hide from them, your never safe, they choose any; i'll, old, young.
Ahh Tyranids...
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuk.games-workshop.com%2Ftyranids%2Fkill-team%2Fimages%2Fgenestealer02-sm.jpg&hash=ac2e4f3d866f9181226c40fe8121a0003080da0a)
QuoteGenestealers are these four-armed things which look very much like an Alien. They reproduce by forcing embryos down victim's throats...
Heh yeah funny how the 'inspiration' comes full circle.
Quote from: Aeus on Oct 28, 2007, 01:34:05 AM
There. Is. No. Pleasing. You. >:(
Of course there is.
Five words.
Don't f**k with the Alien.
But no, for one reason or another we get a shitty drone design, shitty PredAlien design, and superfluous lame-ass reproductive method justified by nothing more than the directors' own ignorance.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 01:39:30 AM
Quote from: Aeus on Oct 28, 2007, 01:34:05 AM
There. Is. No. Pleasing. You. >:(
Of course there is.
Five words.
Don't f**k with the Alien.
But no, for one reason or another we get a shitty drone design, shitty PredAlien design, and superfluous lame-ass reproductive method justified by nothing more than the directors' own ignorance.
do us all a favor and don't see the movie so you don't whine about what the aliens do in it
Quote
do us all a favor and don't see the movie so you don't whine about what the aliens do in it
Do us all a favour and don't see the movie so you don't drown us in your successive orgasms over how awesome it is.
;D I'm waiting for my oppion for when i see it so i don't drown myself in "It's gonna suck" or "Its gonna be awesome"
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 01:32:48 AM
This is still an open field and because that's the way they did it in the other two doesn't mean that is the only way...Aliens are adaptable
Dude, seriously, read through my reply on the other page. I point out precisely why this contradicts them. :)
Aliens are adaptable, definitely. '
Alien 3' took away moulting possibilities, though and you have to ask yourself what was
preventing the Nostromo Alien from using this new method, if it always could do.
Good points and i did read it...Alien 3 didn't take away molting it didn't say it couldn't happen...
second, who knows? less time would be my guess. might have something with it being a predalien
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 01:50:14 AM
Good points and i did read it...Alien 3 didn't take away molting it didn't say it couldn't happen...
second, who knows? less time would be my guess. might have something with it being a predalien
Indirectly, it
did show it wouldn't happen. If it was a possibility, there would
be no natural Queens - ever. Regulars would just move out of the nest, transforming and setting new hives up, as they go.
While that would be a supremely funky way for them to have gone about things, we know that they
do naturally hatch Queens. Why else would they do that, if they don't have to?
In fact, what was stopping the one in '
Alien 3' from simply going around and impregnating prisoners? After all, according to the newer directors, Queens need an army before they can nest... Why wouldn't it have been creating one, instead of killing prisoners at every opportunity?
I'd have liked it to, certainly, but it didn't.
Well acording to the new theroy the doogy couldn't do that...i'd be Ripley's Daughter doing that... y have natural born Queens? faster way to get one, safer can hid in a chest easier, maybe their stronger who knows
I used to hate the idea of this movie, but since I heard about this new reproductive method, I have renewed hope.
Which girls get impregnated in this movie?
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 01:58:03 AM
Well acording to the new theroy the doogy couldn't do that...
According to the director who posts here,
every Alien is capable of implantation and transformation.
It should have been going around, abducting prisoners, impregnating them. It wasn't. Like the Nostromo Alien wasn't. It would have been
nice if they had that ability, but if they were able to, then there was every reason for them to have been doing so.
We're left with having to try and figure out what was preventing them. I've not come up with anything yet.
We might also be left with trying to figure out why this Predalien has deliberately waited for three years before deciding it can be bothered to start transforming and nesting.
Quotei'd be Ripley's Daughter doing that... y have natural born Queens? faster way to get one, safer can hid in a chest easier, maybe their stronger who knows
Once it emerges, it's going to be a lot more vulnerable than a fully-grown Alien. There's nothing to suggest the end result would be stronger and, besides, why does it need to be strong if its only job is to sit back in comfort and lay eggs?
Especially if the Queen is now rendered expendable.
i wouldn't say expendable...i'd say more expednale....
The Dog wouldn't have to turn itself into a Queen because it knew one was on the way...why make two Queens, the Dog was going around making it less of a threat for the Queen.
Why have a Queen on the way if the dog Alien could just turn into one? :)
This is what happens when filmmakers don't pay attention.
i think Queen molting is a last resort long thing. not something it does every five seconds thus explaining y we haven't see it yet. why didn' it happen in Alien? i'd say, Time, and who says it couldn't do it?
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 01:45:22 AM
;D I'm waiting for my oppion for when i see it so i don't drown myself in "It's gonna suck" or "Its gonna be awesome"
You just lost the game.
Quote from: Huol on Oct 28, 2007, 02:16:20 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 01:45:22 AM
;D I'm waiting for my oppion for when i see it so i don't drown myself in "It's gonna suck" or "Its gonna be awesome"
You just lost the game.
when was this a game?
What if Chet is already a Queen, just a young one and she needs time to grow up completely and it takes time.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 02:13:43 AM
i think Queen molting is a last resort long thing. not something it does every five seconds thus explaining y we haven't see it yet. why didn' it happen in Alien? i'd say, Time, and who says it couldn't do it?
I agree!
Quote from: csutkakoma on Oct 28, 2007, 02:17:22 AM
What if Chet is already a Queen, just a young one and she needs time to grow up completely and it takes time.
That's exactly what Colin is saying. Nobody seems to be picking up on this. I guess folks still think it's just a "PredAlien thing" to take notice.
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 28, 2007, 02:20:07 AM
Quote from: csutkakoma on Oct 28, 2007, 02:17:22 AM
What if Chet is already a Queen, just a young one and she needs time to grow up completely and it takes time.
That's exactly what Colin is saying. Nobody seems to be picking up on this. I guess folks still think it's just a "PredAlien thing" to take notice.
Yea, i said that before and people can't accept that...
Hey guys go ahead and just copy and paste those it didn't look like a Queen comments save time
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 02:10:05 AM
i wouldn't say expendable...i'd say more expednale....
No disrespect, but what word did you mean?
Queens are expendable now, because any regular can become one of them. Previous to this, they could have got one through egg transformation, but not now.
QuoteThe Dog wouldn't have to turn itself into a Queen because it knew one was on the way...why make two Queens, the Dog was going around making it less of a threat for the Queen.
It need not become a Queen, but it would still have the ability to go sticking babies down their necks.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 02:13:43 AM
i think Queen molting is a last resort long thing. not something it does every five seconds thus explaining y we haven't see it yet. why didn' it happen in Alien? i'd say, Time, and who says it couldn't do it?
It would be nice for it to be a last resort, but it makes natural Queens obselete. If any adult can do it, there's just no point in natural Queens. That was actually one of the reasons I dislike '
Alien 3', because it took away the option of moulting - but if I was writing or directing a new chapter, I'd be aware of the need to keep within that frame of reference.
Quote from: csutkakoma on Oct 28, 2007, 02:17:22 AM
What if Chet is already a Queen, just a young one and she needs time to grow up completely and it takes time.
The director stated it's not. It's a regular which is transforming into one.
Who gets impregnated in this movie?
OK, everyone, remember: There may be some things people are angry about, but don't forget: This film brings back a lot of things many people missed from the last ones.
The Strauses got those right. Give them the benefit of the doubt.
QuoteThis film brings back a lot of things many people missed from the last ones.
The Strauses got those right
Can't be supported until the film premiers.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 02:20:56 AM
Yea, i said that before and people can't accept that...
But this is a logical explanation.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 28, 2007, 02:23:55 AM
The director stated it's not. It's a regular which is transforming into one.
They never say she is "regular" either.
sorry bout my spelling cut my a break...
He said the one transforming not all of them...he said any can transform...now if in the movie all the aliens do the rape then i'll stand corrected
Quote from: Noir-Gojira on Oct 28, 2007, 02:29:28 AM
QuoteThis film brings back a lot of things many people missed from the last ones.
The Strauses got those right
Can't be supported until the film premiers.
Prev vision.
Pred slim.
Short blades.
Alien sounds.
Rated R.
Cool hive.
Vision sounds.
Add your own.
Who gets impregnated in this movie????
two hunters and...........(we haven't been told asking the same question a million times won't get a new answer)
^Don't feed the trolls, Alan. :D
Quote from: Alienseseses on Oct 28, 2007, 02:32:21 AM
Quote from: Noir-Gojira on Oct 28, 2007, 02:29:28 AM
QuoteThis film brings back a lot of things many people missed from the last ones.
The Strauses got those right
Can't be supported until the film premiers.
Prev vision.
Pred slim.
Short blades.
Alien sounds.
Rated R.
Cool hive.
Vision sounds.
Add your own.
And you this conclusion from only the trailer?
Quote from: mace-in-the-face on Oct 28, 2007, 02:34:41 AM
Who gets impregnated in this movie????
"The town is completely overrun" I think lot of people will be.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 28, 2007, 02:37:30 AM
^Don't feed the trolls, Alan. :D
It's MAJOR to you sonny lol ...
trolls? we got trolls here? i just got rid of the Gremlins...you know who you are!!!
I'm not a troll, I'm trying to figure out who the girl in the hospital bed picture is.
Any ideas?
Quote from: Noir-Gojira on Oct 28, 2007, 02:38:23 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Oct 28, 2007, 02:32:21 AM
Quote from: Noir-Gojira on Oct 28, 2007, 02:29:28 AM
QuoteThis film brings back a lot of things many people missed from the last ones.
The Strauses got those right
Can't be supported until the film premiers.
Prev vision.
Pred slim.
Short blades.
Alien sounds.
Rated R.
Cool hive.
Vision sounds.
Add your own.
And you this conclusion from only the trailer?
Actually at some point he can conclude. The Pred vision, Rated R, Hive, Blades thats all in the trailer.
Quote from: Noir-Gojira on Oct 28, 2007, 02:38:23 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Oct 28, 2007, 02:32:21 AM
Quote from: Noir-Gojira on Oct 28, 2007, 02:29:28 AM
QuoteThis film brings back a lot of things many people missed from the last ones.
The Strauses got those right
Can't be supported until the film premiers.
Prev vision.
Pred slim.
Short blades.
Alien sounds.
Rated R.
Cool hive.
Vision sounds.
Add your own.
And you this conclusion from only the trailer?
Yes.
And Colinspeech(tm)
I'm just saying, the first AVP trailer-- many fans thought Anderson delivered when they saw it. Hoho, surprise for them!
Quote from: Noir-Gojira on Oct 28, 2007, 02:46:25 AM
I'm just saying, the first AVP trailer and many fans thought Anderson delivered when they saw it. Hoho, surprise for them!
We all thought that lol
Quote from: Noir-Gojira on Oct 28, 2007, 02:46:25 AM
I'm just saying, the first AVP trailer-- many fans thought Anderson delivered when they saw it. Hoho, surprise for them!
I hope this disappointment will never happen again! Especially now at the AvPR! But i think now it will be turn out very good.
Quote from: csutkakoma on Oct 28, 2007, 02:50:21 AM
Quote from: Noir-Gojira on Oct 28, 2007, 02:46:25 AM
I'm just saying, the first AVP trailer-- many fans thought Anderson delivered when they saw it. Hoho, surprise for them!
I hope this disappointment will never happen again! Especially now at the AvPR!
EXCEPT the trailer didn't show us zilch. It showed stuff was GOING to happen. The AVP-R trailer showed things happenING.
Plus, the cinematography is a big YES.
Uh, yeah rriiiiggght. Well, you go ahead and chalk that up that clipshow as a 'win' if you so wish, but I'm going to wait until I see the big picture before evaluating degrees of success.
Quote from: csutkakoma on Oct 28, 2007, 02:30:35 AM
But this is a logical explanation.
Not if it contradicts stuff. If you want to know how, you'll have to look through the previous pages.
Plus, the Predalien doesn't have any of the features of a Queen.
QuoteThey never say she is "regular" either.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:51:52 PM
Where do you think the queen came from in Aliens? Perhaps one of the domiant warriors became a young and queen and started the process. The simple fact is that it has never been shown before, so what are you arguing about?
so...after all those ( shocking ) news ( ...at least for me) and all this debate, i'm seriously thinking the next installment should be titled
A:R Alien Regurgitations ...no, i just play down...
"Regurgitation" really describes A:R in a single phrase, at least.
I've come to a conclusion.
If it is an essential to the film, great.
If it is used every five minutes, it will suck. But I think we will only see it once, and other timew we wont need to see it so it will be implied.
As long as it doesn't look like human vomit, I'm fine.
But no Monty Python vs. Aliens.
This is so much of a horrible twist of events, that this topic has over 80 pages. Im just suprised by the poll, that so many people like this half-baked idea. Just goes to show how many people don't know that much about the original Alien films or else this should bother them.
And what's with the empire ..(whatever its called) magazine article saying the movie takes place in 2007?
Huh? So the predalien hides away for three years but that's not enough time to grow into a fullgrown queen and lay eggs?
It also says the crashed predator spaceship contains eggs? wtf?
I think they just got shit wrong.
Back to the main point. You know its not like the directors and effects crew got everything else exactly perfect to the point where this is just going to be the only thing people take issue with. Also for the first film that the strausse brothers have done, they should not have tried to do controversial and far-reaching things, save that for when you already have a list of badass films under your belt.
Makes me wonder what people here have said before, why not have a normal predalien? Right off the bat we get a predalien that molts into a queen and then does more ridiculous shit on top of that. The idea of having a fullgrown predalien which has never been seen before wasn't enough new stuff in terms of the aliens? They also have new stuff for the predator which would have sufficed as well.
It would be like if they not only added the newborn in alien resurrection but also had it rape people or shoot acidic spores out that melted people on contact. Yes the "regurgitation" seems that ridiculous, and unnecessary.
Sadly, all the complaining won't change the fact that the "vomiting" is in the movie. But if avp 3 is ever done, how about NO f**kING WITH THE ESTABLISHED LIFECYCLE/REPRODUCTIVE CYCLE OF THE f**kING ALIENS PLEASE!!!!!!!!
And lets see a normal predalien, with a ridged head like the warrior aliens. If the "dreads" must be done, have them integrate into the head in a more seemless way and no predator skin texture.
But I almost hope there is no avp 3, not at this rate, it seems we're 0/2 in the avp franchise. All the hype can't change the fact that simply being better than the first avp and having an R-rating doesn't mean the franchise is saved.
All of a sudden, we need another "Questions for Colin" thread.
QuoteJust goes to show how many people don't know that much about the original Alien films or else this should bother them.
Not true!
We just don't care :p
Colin get down and save yourself!!!!!
yes...maybe in the next avp they just can added a new giant alien robot race capable of transforming in other things and various objects ::) just for chalenging aliens new features
so all that should become
aliens vs predator vs transformers -at this point- :P
yeah guys , stop complain , at least aliens don't defecate onto victims :D no... maybe in the nexts
...seriously i just hope all this stuff work well on screen
...i think i've got a big trauma...
Quote from: Alienseseses on Oct 28, 2007, 03:13:51 AM
As long as it doesn't look like human vomit, I'm fine.
I doubt we'll see the actual stuff. We'll see the inner mouth being forced down a throat, then sounds of liquid to indicate something flowing down, together with some thrashing around. What gets implanted probably won't ever be seen.
its not vomit its *CESNORED*
Back to the main point. You know its not like the directors and effects crew got everything else exactly perfect to the point where this is just going to be the only thing people take issue with. Also for the first film that the strausse brothers have done, they should not have tried to do controversial and far-reaching things, save that for when you already have a list of badass films under your belt.
_______________________________________________________________________
I'm not sure if anyone has brought this up but I wonder if this whole vomiting thing was just born out of necessity. In other words, maybe the Strause brothers would have liked to have a regular queen as well as Predalien and would have liked to stay within the true lore of the franchise perhaps with a superfacehugger but it just wasn't in the budget. The more I think about it the more it feels that way to me. Why would they want to create such a radical departure unnecessarily. It just doesn't make sense. They wanted a Predalien and lots of warrior aliens but didn't have the budget for a queen also so there you have it. A vomiting impregnating Predalien born out of necessity. Really, without a regular queen its the only way you could do it. If this is the case I don't think the Strause brothers could admit it even if they wanted to and I wouldn't blame them. You know how FOX is. The Strause brothers are probably victims of the stinking bottom line which is really all FOX cares about. Hence a vomiting impregnating Predalien. Or not, but I wouldn't doubt it. :-\
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 28, 2007, 03:59:17 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Oct 28, 2007, 03:13:51 AM
As long as it doesn't look like human vomit, I'm fine.
I doubt we'll see the actual stuff. We'll see the inner mouth being forced down a throat, then sounds of liquid to indicate something flowing down, together with some thrashing around. What gets implanted probably won't ever be seen.
Another reason why it shouldn't be done. How is the process going to be explained in the movie? The average movie goer is not going to get it that its implanting an embryo in the person. And clearly having any of the characters speculate on it in the film will seem unnatural. "Jeez what happened to them?"-ricky,
"It seems that that big ass thing spit some goo in them and now theres one of those monsters inside them."
:-[ lol.
Quote from: Luckygreycat on Oct 28, 2007, 04:15:47 AM
I'm not sure if anyone has brought this up but I wonder if this whole vomiting thing was just born out of necessity. In other words, maybe the Strause brothers would have liked to have a regular queen as well as Predalien and would have liked to stay within the true lore of the franchise perhaps with a superfacehugger but it just wasn't in the budget. The more I think about it the more it feels that way to me. Why would they want to create such a radical departure unnecessarily. It just doesn't make sense. They wanted a Predalien and lots of warrior aliens but didn't have the budget for a queen also so there you have it. A vomiting impregnating Predalien born out of necessity. Really, without a regular queen its the only way you could do it. If this is the case I don't think the Strause brothers could admit it even if they wanted to and I wouldn't blame them. You know how FOX is. The Strause brothers are probably victims of the stinking bottom line which is really all FOX cares about. Hence a vomiting impregnating Predalien. Or not, but I wouldn't doubt it. :-\
I could have thought of a better solution in one second.
Pred-ship crashed, releasing 50 facehuggers into the environment.
Boom. AVP 2.
Quote from: Luckygreycat on Oct 28, 2007, 04:15:47 AM
Back to the main point. You know its not like the directors and effects crew got everything else exactly perfect to the point where this is just going to be the only thing people take issue with. Also for the first film that the strausse brothers have done, they should not have tried to do controversial and far-reaching things, save that for when you already have a list of badass films under your belt.
_______________________________________________________________________
I'm not sure if anyone has brought this up but I wonder if this whole vomiting thing was just born out of necessity. In other words, maybe the Strause brothers would have liked to have a regular queen as well as Predalien and would have liked to stay within the true lore of the franchise perhaps with a superfacehugger but it just wasn't in the budget. The more I think about the more it feels that way to me. Why would they want to create such a radical departure unnecessarily. It just doesn't make sense. They wanted a Predalien and lots of warrior aliens but didn't have the budget for a queen also so there you have it. A vomiting impregnating Predalien born out of necessity. Really, without a regular queen its the only way you could do it. If this is the case I don't think the Strause brothers could admit it even if they wanted to and I wouldn't blame them. You know how FOX is. The Strause brothers are probably victims of the stinking bottom line which is really all FOX cares about. Hence a vomiting impregnating Predalien. Or not, but I wouldn't doubt it. :-\
If that's the case, Colin had every oppurtunity to explain that, but never did. He even stated "its one of the coolest scenes in the movie" so he obviously likes the fact that it was included in the film as opposed to, saying "f**k it, we need something in the absence of a queen to tie the story together, lets just do the best we can with it."
Also its not the only thing they could have done without showing a queen. They didn't need to have the predalien molt into a queen at all or do this regurgitation. Why would it not be sufficient in the budget to have a bunch of eggs on the crashed ship? There you have lots of aliens without the need for this bullshit. The lack of a huge crested queen head would saved money and time on the predalien design, would it not?
The tension could have still been that one of them was bound to have a queen facehugger, and wolf has to get to it to stop it from impregnating someone with a queen embryo, while trying to stop the other aliens and the predalien(who could have still been the end battle by the way) You'd never have to see the queen burst out and if you did, a small chestburster can't cost that much money, especially if it was partially c.g.i
The only money a Queen should have soaked up is in power and other operating costs. They had very fresh models and moulds all quite available for that.
I like the idea quite a bit.
However, the movie needs to clear up doubts of the canon lore.
Maybe queens born from Super facehuggers are born fully developed, while an alien with an absence of a queen will evolve.
And it's gonna show that how?
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 28, 2007, 04:31:38 AM
The only money a Queen should have soaked up is in power and other operating costs. They had very fresh models and moulds all quite available for that.
you'd think they could have used the model from the first avp film and then only made some minor alterations if they wanted. And as others have said, the queen didn't have to be the end battle, the predalien could have still been used for that. The queen could have just been killed as a chestburster, as it came out of who knows, Dallas on the rooftop (no he does have a chestburster in him in avp-r as far as anyone knows, its just a hypothetical) or while still attached to the egg laying tube in the hive. Who knows the predalien could have made an escape while wolf was dealing with the queen. It could have been shoulder cannon blasted blowing its head to pieces and have had dual shurikens slice through its limbs and egg laying sac making quick work of it. But in the process the predalien he was after gets away and terrorizes more helpless humans. Clearly aspects of the avp-r plot, and the new reproductive methods..etc., can not be blamed on the budget. After all fox gave them more money to show a predator homeworld, they could have said f**k that, lets improve what we have and what's essential first. Save that shit for predator 3.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 04:37:08 AM
And it's gonna show that how?
who or what are you referring to?
nevermind, edited post. You mean "clearing up doubts of the lore..." or whatever from the post above you.
QuoteI could have thought of a better solution in one second.
Pred-ship crashed, releasing 50 facehuggers into the environment.
Boom. AVP 2.
Might not be the only reason, but that level of excess in facehuggers and the people they take seem prone to make some heavy headlines, drawing media attention from beyond merely the town. Keep the number down to a few, and the missing peoples will just slip under the radar of the rest of the world until the government can move in and hush hush it.
Quote from: FACEBOX on Oct 28, 2007, 04:26:01 AM
Quote from: Luckygreycat on Oct 28, 2007, 04:15:47 AM
I'm not sure if anyone has brought this up but I wonder if this whole vomiting thing was just born out of necessity. In other words, maybe the Strause brothers would have liked to have a regular queen as well as Predalien and would have liked to stay within the true lore of the franchise perhaps with a superfacehugger but it just wasn't in the budget. The more I think about it the more it feels that way to me. Why would they want to create such a radical departure unnecessarily. It just doesn't make sense. They wanted a Predalien and lots of warrior aliens but didn't have the budget for a queen also so there you have it. A vomiting impregnating Predalien born out of necessity. Really, without a regular queen its the only way you could do it. If this is the case I don't think the Strause brothers could admit it even if they wanted to and I wouldn't blame them. You know how FOX is. The Strause brothers are probably victims of the stinking bottom line which is really all FOX cares about. Hence a vomiting impregnating Predalien. Or not, but I wouldn't doubt it. :-\
I could have thought of a better solution in one second.
Pred-ship crashed, releasing 50 facehuggers into the environment.
Boom. AVP 2.
Perfect. Can you imagine facehuggers crawling all over the town on the buildings and in the trees just waiting to pounce. How cool.
This must set the record for the longest thread on something no one has actually seen yet. :)
I just want to see it before I really judge it.
Does it just hold them down then throw up into their mouths with the eggs in the puke.
or does it just pin them down then shoves it tounge down the victims throat and then the second mouth releases the eggs into the stomach?
Quote from: Noir-Gojira on Oct 28, 2007, 04:42:26 AM
QuoteI could have thought of a better solution in one second.
Pred-ship crashed, releasing 50 facehuggers into the environment.
Boom. AVP 2.
Might not be the only reason, but that level of excess in facehuggers and the people they take seem prone to make some heavy headlines, drawing media attention from beyond merely the town. Keep the number down to a few, and the missing peoples will just slip under the radar of the rest of the world until the government can move in and hush hush it.
what? And having a shitload of aliens overrun your town, slips under the radar? The government is involved in this film, you see military generals in the trailer. They decide to nuke the town. Who would believe headlines involving alien parasites anyway? (crocodile boy saves santa..etc. lol, you know what i mean, the fake newspapers that have that sort of thing in them)
All the people searching for the hunter and his son, most likely go missing or end up dead. How does that not draw attention? So if they're killed by wolf and not facehugged, no suspicions arise? You could have had a huge chunk of the search party find the crashed ship and the eggs and get facehugged. Then the aliens which came out of them could have hunted down others and brought to the remaining eggs to be hosts, while wolf tries to stop them and deals with the people shooting at him in the middle of it all.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 28, 2007, 04:46:15 AM
This must set the record for the longest thread on something no one has actually seen yet. :)
Perhaps :D Colin, are queens only born fully developed if a super facehugger impregnates something and the queen is born from them? Because thats the main confusion going on right now about this new life cycle development following canon.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 28, 2007, 04:46:15 AM
This must set the record for the longest thread on something no one has actually seen yet. :)
well, if you wanted to get people talking about this new reproductive method featured in the film, you did succeed, i will give you that.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 28, 2007, 04:46:15 AM
This must set the record for the longest thread on something no one has actually seen yet. :)
Also you seem to imply that an idea that sounds completely retarded may still have the possibility of looking great and making perfect sense once we've all seen the film. Sorry but the notion is laughable, and belongs in something like hmm.. "Alien vs Hunter" maybe. lol
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 28, 2007, 04:46:15 AM
This must set the record for the longest thread on something no one has actually seen yet. :)
You had to know it'd be a controversial direction when you filmed it, surely?
As for us naysayers...we await the film to prove us wrong as to whether it's a good idea or not. :)
My predictions would be; best case scenario the addition works but never shows up again...worst case is future polls asking "Which AvP was worse?"
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 04:26:22 AM
Quote from: Luckygreycat on Oct 28, 2007, 04:15:47 AM
Back to the main point. You know its not like the directors and effects crew got everything else exactly perfect to the point where this is just going to be the only thing people take issue with. Also for the first film that the strausse brothers have done, they should not have tried to do controversial and far-reaching things, save that for when you already have a list of badass films under your belt.
_______________________________________________________________________
I'm not sure if anyone has brought this up but I wonder if this whole vomiting thing was just born out of necessity. In other words, maybe the Strause brothers would have liked to have a regular queen as well as Predalien and would have liked to stay within the true lore of the franchise perhaps with a superfacehugger but it just wasn't in the budget. The more I think about the more it feels that way to me. Why would they want to create such a radical departure unnecessarily. It just doesn't make sense. They wanted a Predalien and lots of warrior aliens but didn't have the budget for a queen also so there you have it. A vomiting impregnating Predalien born out of necessity. Really, without a regular queen its the only way you could do it. If this is the case I don't think the Strause brothers could admit it even if they wanted to and I wouldn't blame them. You know how FOX is. The Strause brothers are probably victims of the stinking bottom line which is really all FOX cares about. Hence a vomiting impregnating Predalien. Or not, but I wouldn't doubt it. :-\
If that's the case, Colin had every oppurtunity to explain that, but never did. He even stated "its one of the coolest scenes in the movie" so he obviously likes the fact that it was included in the film as opposed to, saying "f**k it, we need something in the absence of a queen to tie the story together, lets just do the best we can with it."
That's true but we have to remember that this is Colin's job and how he makes a living. If he came out and said that it was out of necessity it would sound like s**t and make FOX sound like the greedy $$$ mongers that they really are. We have to remember that in the end Colin is still being employed by FOX and is attempting to make an entrance into directing. Respectfully, of course he is going to say its one of the coolest scenes in the movie whether he thinks it is or not. Inside he may be cringing and wishing they could have done it differently if they had more money. Or not.
Also its not the only thing they could have done without showing a queen. They didn't need to have the predalien molt into a queen at all or do this regurgitation. Why would it not be sufficient in the budget to have a bunch of eggs on the crashed ship? There you have lots of aliens without the need for this bullshit. The lack of a huge crested queen head would saved money and time on the predalien design, would it not?
The tension could have still been that one of them was bound to have a queen facehugger, and wolf has to get to it to stop it from impregnating someone with a queen embryo, while trying to stop the other aliens and the predalien(who could have still been the end battle by the way) You'd never have to see the queen burst out and if you did, a small chestburster can't cost that much money, especially if it was partially c.g.i
I like your style. Its incredible that some of the ideas that people on this forum come up with within seconds are 10 times more compelling than what they have come up with. Your idea would have worked well and likely been within budget. I don't think molting belongs in the lore and not vomiting either. I guess we have to expect FOX to screw it up to some degree. They've been doing that since 1987. Alien 3, hey here's an idea, let's pick a release date when we don't even have a script and oh, lets arbitrarily kill one of the most beloved sci-fi characters ever created (Dwayne Hicks) oops. A:R Hey let's make it a comedy, oops. We have to expect that they will stick their fingers in this project to some degree and well, you know. Don't mean to bring you down.
this is a pretty big wait and see moment
Quote from: 13thpred on Oct 28, 2007, 04:47:15 AM
or does it just pin them down then shoves it tounge down the victims throat and then the second mouth releases the eggs into the stomach?
That sounds like a pretty cool idea.
yeah it pretty much just does the facehuggers job for it but it would be pretty freaky to see it on screen
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 28, 2007, 04:59:55 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 28, 2007, 04:46:15 AM
This must set the record for the longest thread on something no one has actually seen yet. :)
You had to know it'd be a controversial direction when you filmed it, surely?
As for us naysayers...we await the film to prove us wrong as to whether it's a good idea or not. :)
My predictions would be; best case scenario the addition works but never shows up again...worst case is future polls asking "Which AvP was worse?"
Im sure this film is going to be at least a little better than the first one, no matter what they f**k up. You'd have to purposefully f**k with shit to not pull that off. lol. But sadly bullshit has been injected, as opposed to "returning to the roots of the franchises". Yeah i forget which classic Alien film features an alien vomiting in someone's mouth. Oh wait..there wasn't one. It is not canon anymore than ideas in the comics that take a new and weird direction that is completely unnecessary are. I suppose the alien King is next, or some xenozip made from the "royal jelly" lol.
Its not just a matter of "nothing in the other films will contradict something" its also a matter of "is it necessary and does it explain something else that needs an explanation but we've never seen, but have wondered about". I don't think the vomiting fits the latter category. The young queen thing is fine, provided there was no regular alien molting into one. That is a good example of something you know exists in the alien lore, but we've just never seen. Like the aliens actually constructing the hive. We know they do it, so a film that wanted to show that, would not be breaking canon.
However not doing your homework on the alien franchise and all the lore regarding their lifecycle/reproductive cycle is tantamount to a slap in the face of the fans. You can't introduce any idea you want and defend it by saying, "it doesn't contradict anything we already know and have seen".
By this logic, extremes of never-intended alien behavior or lifecycle adaptations could fill the gap, but they really shouldn't be resorted to. There needs to be some respect for giger's design and for what the directors of the better films of the franchise have done with it.
So here's an idea how about cut the vomit scenes from the film and save them as deleted scenes when the dvd comes out, and optional ones as well not spliced back into the film. I think that would stop everyone's bitching. But i suppose its past the editing phase. >:(
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 05:09:21 AM
However not doing your homework on the alien franchise and all the lore regarding their lifecycle/reproductive cycle is tantamount to a slap in the face of the fans. You can't introduce any idea you want and defend it by saying, "it doesn't contradict anything we already know and have seen".
By this logic, extremes of never-intended alien behavior or lifecycle adaptations could fill the gap, but they really shouldn't be resorted to. There needs to be some respect for giger's design and for what the directors of the better films of the franchise have done with it.
But every movie screwed with the lifecycle in one way or another:
Aliens - killed the idea of egg-morphing by having a Queen (really there is no point to Queens if you can use egg morphing).
Alien 3 - the whole egg on the Sulaco fiasco.
Alien Resurrection - the newborn.
AVP - sped up lifecycle.
So maybe it's better if aliens could just reproduce however they see fit. Afterall, they're alien.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:51:52 PM
Where do you think the queen came from in Aliens? Perhaps one of the domiant warriors became a young and queen and started the process. The simple fact is that it has never been shown before, so what are you arguing about?
The problem is this was already answered in Alien 3's deleted scene with the Queen facehugger.
And if someone doesnt like that, doesnt a queen just randomly get born by normal chestbursting? There are OPTIONS, I dont know how strapped for ideas one has to be to think up vomit. Im sorry.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 05:09:21 AM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 28, 2007, 04:59:55 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 28, 2007, 04:46:15 AM
This must set the record for the longest thread on something no one has actually seen yet. :)
You had to know it'd be a controversial direction when you filmed it, surely?
As for us naysayers...we await the film to prove us wrong as to whether it's a good idea or not. :)
My predictions would be; best case scenario the addition works but never shows up again...worst case is future polls asking "Which AvP was worse?"
Im sure this film is going to be at least a little better than the first one, no matter what they f**k up. You'd have to purposefully f**k with shit to not pull that off. lol. But sadly bullshit has been injected, as opposed to "returning to the roots of the franchises". Yeah i forget which classic Alien film features an alien vomiting in someone's mouth. Oh wait..there wasn't one. It is not canon anymore than ideas in the comics that take a new and weird direction that is completely unnecessary are. I suppose the alien King is next, or some xenozip made from the "royal jelly" lol.
Its not just a matter of "nothing in the other films will contradict something" its also a matter of "is it necessary and does it explain something else that needs an explanation but we've never seen, but have wondered about". I don't think the vomiting fits the latter category. The young queen thing is fine, provided there was no regular alien molting into one. That is a good example of something you know exists in the alien lore, but we've just never seen. Like the aliens actually constructing the hive. We know they do it, so a film that wanted to show that, would not be breaking canon.
However not doing your homework on the alien franchise and all the lore regarding their lifecycle/reproductive cycle is tantamount to a slap in the face of the fans. You can't introduce any idea you want and defend it by saying, "it doesn't contradict anything we already know and have seen".
By this logic, extremes of never-intended alien behavior or lifecycle adaptations could fill the gap, but they really shouldn't be resorted to. There needs to be some respect for giger's design and for what the directors of the better films of the franchise have done with it.
So here's an idea how about cut the vomit scenes from the film and save them as deleted scenes when the dvd comes out, and optional ones as well not spliced back into the film. I think that would stop everyone's bitching. But i suppose its past the editing phase. >:(
I don't think we can blame the Strause brothers. It sounds like they are plugged into the ethos of the alien concept but we have to remember that there are always suits saying no that's too expensive and putting their foot down and saying that the studio wants this or that. The Strause brothers had these kinds of constraints I'm sure. It will never be perfect for this reason. All the brothers can do is their best under the circumstances imposed on them by the suits. Good luck Colin and thanks for giving us something to hope for again.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 05:18:59 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 05:09:21 AM
However not doing your homework on the alien franchise and all the lore regarding their lifecycle/reproductive cycle is tantamount to a slap in the face of the fans. You can't introduce any idea you want and defend it by saying, "it doesn't contradict anything we already know and have seen".
By this logic, extremes of never-intended alien behavior or lifecycle adaptations could fill the gap, but they really shouldn't be resorted to. There needs to be some respect for giger's design and for what the directors of the better films of the franchise have done with it.
But every movie screwed with the lifecycle in one way or another:
Aliens - killed the idea of egg-morphing by having a Queen (really there is no point to Queens if you can use egg morphing).
Alien 3 - the whole egg on the Sulaco fiasco.
Alien Resurrection - the newborn.
AVP - sped up lifecycle.
So maybe it's better if aliens could just reproduce however they see fit. Afterall, they're alien.
Hey I'm not aruing that Alien 3, Alien Resurrection and the first avp did not have lots of problems and have liberties taken with them. I agree they have things that suck in them. But that doesn't mean its ok to do so in avp-r just because those films did.
Also i thought the directors were only using "Alien, Aliens" and "predator" as their template. Hard to f**k shit up if you do that, it really is, as nothing in those films comes close to being arbitary, convulted bullshit. They are good sci-fi films that take what otherwise would essentially be a lame b-movie and make it into an A movie.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 05:18:59 AM
But every movie screwed with the lifecycle in one way or another:
Aliens - killed the idea of egg-morphing by having a Queen (really there is no point to Queens if you can use egg morphing).
First of all i found this "egg morphing" idea to be monstrous lol
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 05:18:59 AM
Alien 3 - the whole egg on the Sulaco fiasco.
There was no theory there at all. It was a screw up with no thought put into it. The fans made theories.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 05:18:59 AM
Alien Resurrection - the newborn.
See this is why fans complain about newly arrived crap movies, because it bites the entire franchise in the ass sooner or later and ends up in one of these posts ;)
Vomit isnt the answer to anything in alien, only for accidental bleach ingestion.
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 28, 2007, 05:25:08 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 05:18:59 AM
But every movie screwed with the lifecycle in one way or another:
Aliens - killed the idea of egg-morphing by having a Queen (really there is no point to Queens if you can use egg morphing).
First of all i found this "egg morphing" idea to be monstrous lol
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 05:18:59 AM
Alien 3 - the whole egg on the Sulaco fiasco.
There was no theory there at all. It was a screw up with no thought put into it. The fans made theories.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 05:18:59 AM
Alien Resurrection - the newborn.
See this is why fans complain about newly arrived crap movies, because it bites the entire franchise in the ass sooner or later and ends up in one of these posts ;)
Vomit isnt the answer to anything in alien, only for accidental bleach ingestion.
or the lousy superman vs aliens comic book series, in which he vomits up the chestburster inside hm and he's just fine and dandy afterwards. lol (seriously it happened in that comic)
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 05:18:59 AM
But every movie screwed with the lifecycle in one way or another:
There is a difference between 'screwed with' and expanded upon within the parameters already set.
QuoteAliens - killed the idea of egg-morphing by having a Queen
So killed an idea that was not canonical to begin with. The Queen filled a void left by the theatrical, and for a long time
only cut of Alien. She
logically filled the void, too.
QuoteAlien 3 - the whole egg on the Sulaco fiasco.
How does that count? Not knowing how it got there has nothing to do with the lifecycle. Unless you're claiming that spontaneous egg growth from nothing is where that egg came from.
QuoteAlien Resurrection - the newborn.
A deviation, to be sure. But one caused by meddling. It is not a natural part of the life cycle.
QuoteAVP - sped up lifecycle.
No argument there. :)
QuoteSo maybe it's better if aliens could just reproduce however they see fit. Afterall, they're alien.
And maybe the Aliens should all wear pink skirts and recite Klingon opera. After all...
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 05:26:57 AM
or the lousy superman vs aliens comic book series, in which he vomits up the chestburster inside hm and he's just fine and dandy afterwards. lol (seriously it happened in that comic)
What's wrong with that? Once Supes was back in a yellow sun environment, the chestburster stood no chance. The only question is what it was doing in his stomach. (Maybe it was in his lung for some reason? ;) )
also about how queens could be created without resorting to molting. The aliens:colonial marines technical manual says this: (i know it technically is a comic and the comics are largely considered non-canon, except when they deal with stuff that has been featured in the films without deviating from it but nonetheless)
i posted this is another thread, but i think it needs to be here to.
"So how do queens get created?" You would think that in the Nostromo encounter, the first creature out of the egg would have been a queen so that it could lay new eggs."
"Not necessarily- the first several could be workers in order to ascertain the environment and the presence of viable rival queens. If there are none, they could broadcast that information back to an ovomorph, probably via enzymes, and prime the egg so that the next host they find and capture would be impregnated by a queen embryo."
So you have a queen facehugger, you have egg morphing, and you even have this ^ which are all more plausible than molting into a f**king queen. Seriously molting into a queen doesn't belong in an alien film any more than a praetorian does.
Egg morphing may be somewhat controversial, but it was at least featured in a film, even if in a deleted scene reinstated in a director's cut. That's more than you can say for either the queen molting or the vomiting embryo bullshit.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 05:09:21 AM
Its not just a matter of "nothing in the other films will contradict something" its also a matter of "is it necessary and does it explain something else that needs an explanation but we've never seen, but have wondered about".
Its also a matter of if the idea is smooth enough to work. STYLE is key as well. Movies need to be smooth and slick to work, not tacky.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 28, 2007, 04:46:15 AM
This must set the record for the longest thread on something no one has actually seen yet. :)
Saying 'Shut up and wait for the movie' isn't exactly the best way to kill people's doubts.
Besides which, seeing it happen isn't going to magically correct the continuity problems. 'Oh, so that's how it puts it in the throat! Well, that's entirely alright then! Even the molting!'
Huh,
no ...
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 28, 2007, 05:34:36 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 05:09:21 AM
Its not just a matter of "nothing in the other films will contradict something" its also a matter of "is it necessary and does it explain something else that needs an explanation but we've never seen, but have wondered about".
Its also a matter of if the idea is smooth enough to work. STYLE is key as well. Movies need to be smooth and slick to work, not tacky.
oh indeed, they have to be logical and practical ideas as well. But for the point i was arguing those points seemed the most relevant.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 05:36:14 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 28, 2007, 04:46:15 AM
This must set the record for the longest thread on something no one has actually seen yet. :)
Saying 'Shut up and wait for the movie' isn't exactly the best way to kill people's doubts.
Besides which, seeing it happen isn't going to magically correct the continuity problems. 'Oh, so that's how it puts it in the throat! Well, that's entirely alright then! Even the molting!'
Huh, no[/o] ...
i know, come on. Im starting to think that If paul anderson were on these boards, he would do a better job sticking up for himself and his ideas/what he did in avp more so than colin is here. It may be because he is busy, but if that's the case why post a one sentence post like this to begin with?
If he's active on this board this much and reads this stuff, even if selectively, why not logically defend the ideas in a way that will seem like he knows what he's doing? Instead we get. "how do you know the queen in aliens ...(paraphrasing) wasn't a dominant warrior that molted into a young queen" and "wait til you see the film before judging it". Not too reassurring.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 28, 2007, 05:27:17 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 05:18:59 AM
But every movie screwed with the lifecycle in one way or another:
There is a difference between 'screwed with' and expanded upon within the parameters already set.
QuoteAliens - killed the idea of egg-morphing by having a Queen
So killed an idea that was not canonical to begin with. The Queen filled a void left by the theatrical, and for a long time only cut of Alien. She logically filled the void, too.
But that ruins the 'egg morphing to make Queens' idea. If they could egg morph, why bother with the Queen?
QuoteQuoteAlien 3 - the whole egg on the Sulaco fiasco.
How does that count? Not knowing how it got there has nothing to do with the lifecycle. Unless you're claiming that spontaneous egg growth from nothing is where that egg came from.
Well we don't know how the egg got there and why it contained a Queen. If it was the Queen that laid them, then I can accept that to create a new Queen to replace her. However, that relies on the fact there is already a Queen in existence.
QuoteQuoteAlien Resurrection - the newborn.
A deviation, to be sure. But one caused by meddling. It is not a natural part of the life cycle.
Yeah but it's a bit strange that the Queen was normal, then just mutated a human reproductive system. And how did she produce the Newborn, anyway, without a host?
QuoteQuoteSo maybe it's better if aliens could just reproduce however they see fit. Afterall, they're alien.
And maybe the Aliens should all wear pink skirts and recite Klingon opera. After all...
I wouldn't go that far. ;)
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 05:38:51 AM
[...] It may be because he is busy, but if that's the case why post a one sentence post like this to begin with?
That's because he's trying to get a reaction out of us because it amuses him...
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 28, 2007, 04:46:15 AM
This must set the record for the longest thread on something no one has actually seen yet. :)
You know you love us for it - Fox could never have
bought this level of publicity. :)
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 05:18:59 AM
Aliens - killed the idea of egg-morphing by having a Queen (really there is no point to Queens if you can use egg morphing).
Not if egging is the emergency method to
get a Queen-carrying facehugger, which seems to be the most logical conclusion. It preserves the 'naturally born' feature, too.
Queens make more mathematical sense, host-wise, once one exists.
Like I've said, I have a suspicion that this will be a wonderfully disturbing thing to see on screen. Just not yet finding a way to make it logically fit with what we know about them. It's the kind of direction they perhaps should have gone for with '
Alien 3', but it's more than a decade too late to worry about that.
Plus, most of us weren't on the ye olde Internet, back then.
Its just adding more gruesome content for their "Rated R and grotesquely disgusting!" slant. I think ballzanya and I have already shown the options they have, and therye the most logical and smooth.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 05:39:21 AM
But that ruins the 'egg morphing to make Queens' idea. If they could egg morph, why bother with the Queen?
Mass production without the need for host resource consumption.
QuoteYeah but it's a bit strange that the Queen was normal, then just mutated a human reproductive system. And how did she produce the Newborn, anyway, without a host?
The Queen clearly wasn't normal for the reason you just stated - Mutated reproductive system. Seeing as Aliens reproduce asexually, what we got was a hybrid of the Queen reproductive method and a human one, which resulted in a hybrid of people and Aliens.
Quote from: Gates on Oct 28, 2007, 05:40:39 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 05:38:51 AM
[...] It may be because he is busy, but if that's the case why post a one sentence post like this to begin with?
That's because he's trying to get a reaction out of us because it amuses him...
probably and he knows the film will probably make as much money as the first avp as well as the fact that the film is essentially finished and going to contain his beloved vomit/face rape idea.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 28, 2007, 05:40:49 AM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 28, 2007, 04:46:15 AM
This must set the record for the longest thread on something no one has actually seen yet. :)
You know you love us for it - Fox could never have bought this level of publicity. :)
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 05:18:59 AM
Aliens - killed the idea of egg-morphing by having a Queen (really there is no point to Queens if you can use egg morphing).
Not if egging is the emergency method to get a Queen-carrying facehugger, which seems to be the most logical conclusion. It preserves the 'naturally born' feature, too.
So why can't the 'barfing' just be an emergency method too?
QuoteQueens make more mathematical sense, host-wise, once one exists.
How? If any alien can morph someone into an egg, and morph former-hosts of aliens - you have the same amount of hosts matched up with facehuggers that a Queen could produce. So why bother with all the trouble of having a Queen?
Queen can poop out dozens of eggs in minutes.
A drone, a handful of eggs over several hours.
In the end there are going to be excess eggs from Queen to have in storage.
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 28, 2007, 05:42:15 AM
Its just adding more gruesome content for their "Rated R and grotesquely disgusting!" slant. I think ballzanya and I have already shown the options they have, and therye the most logical and smooth.
Apparently the R is for Rape. lol. Aliens vs. predator hentai for horny 13 year olds who were disapointed that the first film didn't show enough hardcore facerape and freudian sexual overtones. Those crying out(orgasmicly) for alien goo to drizzle downthe throat of a helpless woman lying in a hospital bed will now get there wildest dreams(wet dreams) fulfilled. lol.
but wait there's more..ever wanted to see what someone looks like when they actually kiss a girl..take ricky and his bimbo girlfriend you can masturbate your little needle dicks to during the film(your mom will never know. ;))
And then an added bonus of seeing a waitress get cornered as she breaths heavily and screams in terror (jsut like all your daydream fantasies of watching your sixth grade teacher)
f**ked up. yes. point made=yes.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 05:39:21 AM
Aliens - killed the idea of egg-morphing by having a Queen
QuoteSo killed an idea that was not canonical to begin with. The Queen filled a void left by the theatrical, and for a long time only cut of Alien. She logically filled the void, too.
QuoteBut that ruins the 'egg morphing to make Queens' idea. If they could egg morph, why bother with the Queen?
No, it's perfect. Here's a theory...
All eggs are normal, so the first Alien born will always be a drone/worker/warrior, whatever you want to call it.
It assertains whether it is a lone Alien, and if so, egg-morphs its first victim into an egg with a Queen-carrying facehugger in it. (That'd be Brett in the DC of Alien.)
Then when the Queen is born, she begins mass-producing eggs for any subsequent victims. Egg-morphing is a waste, as it takes two people for every Alien. Having an egg-layer means one Alien for every human.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 05:42:50 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 05:39:21 AM
But that ruins the 'egg morphing to make Queens' idea. If they could egg morph, why bother with the Queen?
Mass production without the need for host resource consumption.
Host resource consumption for what? In Aliens, the dead hosts were still cocooned in the wall, and not being used for anything else.
QuoteYeah but it's a bit strange that the Queen was normal, then just mutated a human reproductive system. And how did she produce the Newborn, anyway, without a host?
The Queen clearly wasn't normal for the reason you just stated - Mutated reproductive system. Seeing as Aliens reproduce asexually, what we got was a hybrid of the Queen reproductive method and a human one, which resulted in a hybrid of people and Aliens.
[/quote]
I just don't get how the queen gave birth to a live alien - it wasn't a clone of her (via reproducing asexually), it was totally different to the Queen.
Quotewhat? And having a shitload of aliens overrun your town, slips under the radar?
Strategy of the Trojan Horse: Much harder to anticipate and resist destruction when it comes from within your city limits.
QuoteThe government is involved in this film, you see military generals in the trailer. They decide to nuke the town.
And you can bet they'll brag about bombing their own citizens.
QuoteWho would believe headlines involving alien parasites anyway? (crocodile boy saves santa..etc. lol, you know what i mean, the fake newspapers that have that sort of thing in them)
Yes, because no one watches news programs on TV, or subscribes to news sites on the internet. Now, what number of huggers has a higher probability of being discovered, two or fifty?
QuoteAll the people searching for the hunter and his son, most likely go missing or end up dead. How does that not draw attention? So if they're killed by wolf and not facehugged, no suspicions arise?
Ah yes, because atrocious and mysterious mass-killings have
never happened before in human history.
QuoteYou could have had a huge chunk of the search party find the crashed ship and the eggs and get facehugged. Then the aliens which came out of them could have hunted down others and brought to the remaining eggs to be hosts, while wolf tries to stop them and deals with the people shooting at him in the middle of it all.
Because NO ONE will be alert or on guard if an entire search party goes missing! Besides, they already did that in Aliens; not the stealthiest of victim harvestings.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 05:46:28 AM
Queen can poop out dozens of eggs in minutes.
A drone, a handful of eggs over several hours.
In the end there are going to be excess eggs from Queen to have in storage.
It doesn't matter how many eggs the Queen produces - it can only make enough aliens according the number of hosts it has.
Aliens capture people and cocoon them anyway - so they could egg morph them instead, wouldn't be much different.
Quote from: Noir-Gojira on Oct 28, 2007, 05:50:54 AM
Quotewhat? And having a shitload of aliens overrun your town, slips under the radar?
Strategy of the Trojan Horse: Much harder to resist destruction when it comes from within your city limits.
QuoteThe government is involved in this film, you see military generals in the trailer. They decide to nuke the town.
And you can bet they'll brag about bombing their own citizens.
QuoteWho would believe headlines involving alien parasites anyway? (crocodile boy saves santa..etc. lol, you know what i mean, the fake newspapers that have that sort of thing in them)
Yes, because no one watches news programs on TV, or checks the internet. Now, what number of huggers has a higher probability of being discovered, two or fifty?
QuoteAll the people searching for the hunter and his son, most likely go missing or end up dead. How does that not draw attention? So if they're killed by wolf and not facehugged, no suspicions arise?
Ah yes, because atrocious and mysterious mass-killings have never happened before in human history. Certainly not in Predator continuity :p
QuoteYou could have had a huge chunk of the search party find the crashed ship and the eggs and get facehugged. Then the aliens which came out of them could have hunted down others and brought to the remaining eggs to be hosts, while wolf tries to stop them and deals with the people shooting at him in the middle of it all.
Once again, I bring up the concept of the Trojan Horse.
yeah so many large cauterized shoulder cannon wounds revealing a huge hole in someone's chest could be confused with just a regular human psycho. ::)
Or the skinned bodies strung up so high in the trees that a person would not be strong or agile enough to do so
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 28, 2007, 05:49:37 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 05:39:21 AM
Aliens - killed the idea of egg-morphing by having a Queen
QuoteSo killed an idea that was not canonical to begin with. The Queen filled a void left by the theatrical, and for a long time only cut of Alien. She logically filled the void, too.
QuoteBut that ruins the 'egg morphing to make Queens' idea. If they could egg morph, why bother with the Queen?
No, it's perfect. Here's a theory...
All eggs are normal, so the first Alien born will always be a drone/worker/warrior, whatever you want to call it.
It assertains whether it is a lone Alien, and if so, egg-morphs its first victim into an egg with a Queen-carrying facehugger in it. (That'd be Brett in the DC of Alien.)
Then when the Queen is born, she begins mass-producing eggs for any subsequent victims. Egg-morphing is a waste, as it takes two people for every Alien. Having an egg-layer means one Alien for every human.
Two points -
*Why was the alien egg morphing Dallas then? Dallas could be used as a host.
*As SiL pointed out, that can morph dead people, so they could morph former hosts. Therefore you get one egg per host until the hosts run out (minus one - the first person egg morphed).
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 05:52:48 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 05:46:28 AM
Queen can poop out dozens of eggs in minutes.
A drone, a handful of eggs over several hours.
In the end there are going to be excess eggs from Queen to have in storage.
It doesn't matter how many eggs the Queen produces - it can only make enough aliens according the number of hosts it has.
Aliens capture people and cocoon them anyway - so they could egg morph them instead, wouldn't be much different.
the eggs can wait around for an indefinite amount of time for hosts however. So making a shitload is beneficial to the species. Just look at what happened in the first film. Who knows how much time passed before the nostromo crew found the derelict spacecraft.
Quote from: Gates on Oct 28, 2007, 05:40:39 AM
That's because he's trying to get a reaction out of us because it amuses him...
"Dance, puppets! Dance!" :D
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 05:44:53 AM
So why can't the 'barfing' just be an emergency method too?
Because there's nothing which prevented the Nostromo or Fury Aliens from doing it, yet they didn't. With the new ability, by rights, both should have been doing precisely that.
The combination of oral fux0ring and 'Queen-ing' now also renders egg transformation
and natural Queens obselete. If this had been retained as
purely a way to create ordinary Aliens and a single example of egging shown to obtain a Queen, as opposed to the Predalien getting bulkier and moulting, not only would we have had the best of both worlds, but we'd be praising the directors for
keeping within the limits of established canon - just like they kept on promising to.
They probably felt they have, but don't seem to think the idea through to what consequences it would have for the other films.
QuoteQuoteQueens make more mathematical sense, host-wise, once one exists.
How? If any alien can morph someone into an egg, and morph former-hosts of aliens - you have the same amount of hosts matched up with facehuggers that a Queen could produce. So why bother with all the trouble of having a Queen?
Who says expended, rotting cadavers would be of further use? As I pointed out earlier, this could be a primary reason why both Dallas and Brett were egged: Brett as an unknowing, failed experiment, Dallas as the real deal.
Seems to me that the creatures require a living host for the majority of whatever they need to do. Facehuggers would just kill you by suffocation, otherwise.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 05:56:42 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 05:52:48 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 05:46:28 AM
Queen can poop out dozens of eggs in minutes.
A drone, a handful of eggs over several hours.
In the end there are going to be excess eggs from Queen to have in storage.
It doesn't matter how many eggs the Queen produces - it can only make enough aliens according the number of hosts it has.
Aliens capture people and cocoon them anyway - so they could egg morph them instead, wouldn't be much different.
the eggs can wait around for an indefinite amount of time for hosts however. So making a shitload is beneficial to the species. Just look at what happened in the first film. Who knows how much time passed before the nostromo crew found the derelict spacecraft.
We don't know how long eggs live for.
And it's possible that the eggs Kane found were in a stasis field.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 06:00:15 AM
We don't know how long eggs live for.
And it's possible that the eggs Kane found were in a stasis field.
Oh no...not again... ;)
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 05:55:27 AM
Two points -
*Why was the alien egg morphing Dallas then? Dallas could be used as a host.
*As SiL pointed out, that can morph dead people, so they could morph former hosts. Therefore you get one egg per host until the hosts run out (minus one - the first person egg morphed).
Xeno's point is a good one...maybe the Brett-egg was a failed attempt, and Dallas was a more successful version. Or if that's no good, Dallas could well be the intended victim for the Brett-egg's facehugger. Sure, he looked like he was 'egg-ifying' but he was noticeably unaltered in the head 'n shoulders area. It could have been a form of restraint not unlike the resin used in A2's hive.
Quoteyeah so many large cauterized shoulder cannon wounds revealing a huge hole in someone's chest could be confused with just a regular human psycho. Roll Eyes
Or the skinned bodies strung up so high in the trees that a person would not be strong or agile enough to do so
And you can bet someone will say, "Damn, this is why I left LA!"
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 28, 2007, 05:57:18 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 05:44:53 AM
So why can't the 'barfing' just be an emergency method too?
Because there's nothing which prevented the Nostromo or Fury Aliens from doing it, yet they didn't. With the new ability, by rights, both should have been doing precisely that.
It does contradict Alien, but then if egg morphing is used, Aliens contradicts Alien as well.
The fury alien could've sensed the queen.
QuoteThe combination of oral fux0ring and 'Queen-ing' now also renders egg transformation and natural Queens obselete. If this had been retained as purely a way to create ordinary Aliens and a single example of egging shown to obtain a Queen, as opposed to the Predalien getting bulkier and moulting, not only would we have had the best of both worlds, but we'd be praising the directors for keeping within the limits of established canon - just like they kept on promising to.
It doesn't make natural queens obsolete. Like I said before, maybe only the most dominant alien gets to reproduce via the 'barfing', but only when there is no queen present.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQueens make more mathematical sense, host-wise, once one exists.
How? If any alien can morph someone into an egg, and morph former-hosts of aliens - you have the same amount of hosts matched up with facehuggers that a Queen could produce. So why bother with all the trouble of having a Queen?
Who says expended, rotting cadavers would be of further use? As I pointed out earlier, this could be a primary reason why both Dallas and Brett were egged: Brett as an unknowing, failed experiment, Dallas as the real deal.
Seems to me that the creatures require a living host for the majority of whatever they need to do. Facehuggers would just kill you by suffocation, otherwise.
If the alien can only morph living people, it takes them a lot longer to build a hive.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 28, 2007, 06:04:02 AM
Xeno's point is a good one...maybe the Brett-egg was a failed attempt, and Dallas was a more successful version. Or if that's no good, Dallas could well be the intended victim for the Brett-egg's facehugger. Sure, he looked like he was 'egg-ifying' but he was noticeably unaltered in the head 'n shoulders area. It could have been a form of restraint not unlike the resin used in A2's hive.
This has been a long and raging debate possibility. :)
The fact that he was in pain and suicidal, even if we don't take into account the production team information, seems to indicate more than just confinement was an issue. Newt seemed to suffer no ill effects from being cocooned. Come to that, neither did what we saw of Ripley 8, for the same reason.
There is a theory that he might have been in storage and about to be used as food, but you'd still expect the guy to want to get out, if that was the case.
I just realized.
People often point to A:R, saying "Oh, why didn't the queen vomit?"
Thing is, just because it doesn't vomit doesn't mean it can't end up laying eggs. It means no army until eggsack arrives.
The vomit thing is an aside. Just for bodyguards.
And we don't see time pass in A:R. It could have been months.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 28, 2007, 06:04:02 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 05:55:27 AM
Two points -
*Why was the alien egg morphing Dallas then? Dallas could be used as a host.
*As SiL pointed out, that can morph dead people, so they could morph former hosts. Therefore you get one egg per host until the hosts run out (minus one - the first person egg morphed).
Xeno's point is a good one...maybe the Brett-egg was a failed attempt, and Dallas was a more successful version. Or if that's no good, Dallas could well be the intended victim for the Brett-egg's facehugger. Sure, he looked like he was 'egg-ifying' but he was noticeably unaltered in the head 'n shoulders area. It could have been a form of restraint not unlike the resin used in A2's hive.
Alien fans need to make up their minds, lol. :P Can an alien morph dead hosts or not?
If it can, then the Queen is made useless.
If it can't, it slows down the time to build a hive, making the aliens more vulnerable.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 06:00:15 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 05:56:42 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 05:52:48 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 05:46:28 AM
Queen can poop out dozens of eggs in minutes.
A drone, a handful of eggs over several hours.
In the end there are going to be excess eggs from Queen to have in storage.
It doesn't matter how many eggs the Queen produces - it can only make enough aliens according the number of hosts it has.
Aliens capture people and cocoon them anyway - so they could egg morph them instead, wouldn't be much different.
the eggs can wait around for an indefinite amount of time for hosts however. So making a shitload is beneficial to the species. Just look at what happened in the first film. Who knows how much time passed before the nostromo crew found the derelict spacecraft.
We don't know how long eggs live for.
And it's possible that the eggs Kane found were in a stasis field.
no, that blue mist was just either a way of keeping phermones from reaching them and causing them to open or to serve as an alarm as it reacted while broken. The space jockeys would have sensed in the ship that they were opening up.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 28, 2007, 06:07:19 AM
The fact that he was in pain and suicidal, even if we don't take into account the production team information, seems to indicate more than just confinement was an issue.
True 'nuff.
Maybe he was just wrecked from all the savage raping the Alien did to him since the airshaft abduction? ;)
Quote from: Alienseseses on Oct 28, 2007, 06:07:30 AM
[...] Just for bodyguards.
Bodyguards!? How did they end up in the mix here...?
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 06:10:09 AM
Alien fans need to make up their minds, lol. :P Can an alien morph dead hosts or not?
There will never be a consensus unless a film says it definitively.
QuoteIf it can, then the Queen is made useless.
Not useless. Less essential, maybe...but not useless.
QuoteIf it can't, it slows down the time to build a hive, making the aliens more vulnerable.
Personally, I'd not call the Aliens vulnerable just because they don't have a house.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 28, 2007, 06:07:19 AM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 28, 2007, 06:04:02 AM
Xeno's point is a good one...maybe the Brett-egg was a failed attempt, and Dallas was a more successful version. Or if that's no good, Dallas could well be the intended victim for the Brett-egg's facehugger. Sure, he looked like he was 'egg-ifying' but he was noticeably unaltered in the head 'n shoulders area. It could have been a form of restraint not unlike the resin used in A2's hive.
This has been a long and raging debate possibility. :)
The fact that he was in pain and suicidal, even if we don't take into account the production team information, seems to indicate more than just confinement was an issue. Newt seemed to suffer no ill effects from being cocooned. Come to that, neither did what we saw of Ripley 8, for the same reason.
There is a theory that he might have been in storage and about to be used as food, but you'd still expect the guy to want to get out, if that was the case.
well he was cocooned for hours unable to move, the smell of the resin and brett essentially rotting next to him must have been naseating. Also he probably thought he would end up like brett. It is pretty clear however that he was the intended host for the facehugger. That's why he was snatched with no blood, no wounds. He was meant to be a live host. Brett only needed to have minimal life signs to be egg morphed and he was the victim of a headbite.
QuoteAlien fans need to make up their minds, lol. Tongue Can an alien morph dead hosts or not?
If it can, then the Queen is made useless.
Might have something to do with the quality of the finished product.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 06:10:17 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 06:00:15 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 05:56:42 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 05:52:48 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 05:46:28 AM
Queen can poop out dozens of eggs in minutes.
A drone, a handful of eggs over several hours.
In the end there are going to be excess eggs from Queen to have in storage.
It doesn't matter how many eggs the Queen produces - it can only make enough aliens according the number of hosts it has.
Aliens capture people and cocoon them anyway - so they could egg morph them instead, wouldn't be much different.
the eggs can wait around for an indefinite amount of time for hosts however. So making a shitload is beneficial to the species. Just look at what happened in the first film. Who knows how much time passed before the nostromo crew found the derelict spacecraft.
We don't know how long eggs live for.
And it's possible that the eggs Kane found were in a stasis field.
no, that blue mist was just either a way of keeping phermones from reaching them and causing them to open or to serve as an alarm as it reacted while broken. The space jockeys would have sensed in the ship that they were opening up.
Ok, I'm recycling old arguments here, but if that's the case - why didn't the other sections in the ship have stasis fields?
Here is what I'm talking about:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb290%2FBartleby24%2Feggchamberbmp.jpg&hash=83fcae97089226e5b5ebb7e83fc5f0e27075c4bd)
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 28, 2007, 04:46:15 AM
This must set the record for the longest thread on something no one has actually seen yet. :)
Forgive me for sounding pretentious or older than I am, but I'd love to share a story with you all. It's on the subject of a film I'm fairly certain some of you saw...Spider-Man 3. If I may take a moment of your time, I'd love to share its relevance to this current conversation.
It was around...oh, August of '06...that the first leak on that film came out. It was present to the fanbase on the SHH! Boards, by an individual professing to see plot details from the script. This insider was ripped apart at the time for being a BS'er who was just making preposterous sh*t up. I mean, Venom melts? The Sandman killed Uncle Ben? Yeah, right! And for some time, people were content with their unabashful optimism on the subject. I must admit, even though I did believe him I was amongst them, thinking the filmmakers were just too smart to retain something like that.
So a few months rolled by, and then we got visual proof. It turned the forums into a wave of outrage, but the positive thinkers already had their explanations down pat. "Oh, so it alludes to him having killed Ben...it's just a trick!" "I'm sure it's already been fixed and it's not even in the movie anymore!" "What are you complaining about?! You haven't even seen the film yet!" And so things kept to a boil; even when novelizations confirmed the worst and another leaker practically divulged the script on a silver platter there were fans content with the corks-in-ears approach.
I need not tell you what happened. Suffice to say, the written word proved to be ten times worse on the big screen. Perhaps it is simply a deficiency in the human language, but sometimes words cannot convey the feeling a single bad turn gives. The positive thinkers were crushed, and duly so for defending what they knew in advance was goinng to occur.
I'm not saying this to portend some negative spin that I think will occur. In fact, I'm fairly certain this film will be received well with the people being targeted and even around the board. I bring forth this example because- once upon a time- I found out about something as negatively received as this and just did exactly what you said...I waited for the film. It turned out far, far worse than anything I could have imagined.
I'm sure some people loved that film as a whole, flaws and all, just as people will love this one for being a true revival of the concept which I can respect. But I would just extend this one favor...don't ask for people to wait. Sometimes, it's better to vent now. I'm sure your movie will make up for anything we don't take in kind, but to just expect us to wait before drawing a conclusion is like dangling food in front of a hungry beggar and withdrawing it on the principle that it's not dinnertime yet. Maybe they will wait...but human nature tells us otherwise, and history tells us that it changes nothing in the long run.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 06:06:42 AM
It does contradict Alien, but then if egg morphing is used, Aliens contradicts Alien as well.
I still don't see how. One should be used to create the other. The new method cancels them both out, by being a lot more efficient and easier. Back-up methods stop being so when the advantages outweigh disadvantages of the usual way.
QuoteThe fury alien could've sensed the queen.
But according to the directors, this whole thing is happening because they supposedly need an initial army. The Fury one should have been going around like crazy and doing this, in preparation. It was obviously killing plenty of potential hosts around the place.
QuoteIt doesn't make natural queens obsolete. Like I said before, maybe only the most dominant alien gets to reproduce via the 'barfing', but only when there is no queen present.
The oral thing makes egging unnecessary. Queen transformation makes natural Queens obselete. Together, they make both obselete.
What was preventing the Nostromo Alien from doing this to Dallas? Seemingly nothing.
QuoteIf the alien can only morph living people, it takes them a lot longer to build a hive.
Hence why they should only need one or two, to gain a Queen. See how those numbers work out? :)
Quote from: Alienseseses on Oct 28, 2007, 06:07:30 AM
And we don't see time pass in A:R. It could have been months.
I seem to recall the discussion with Perez pointing out a scale of time. It was a couple of days or something. I think they even refer to Her Majesty as entering the initial hermaphrodite phases much earlier. Shall have to check that.
Quote from: Alienseseses on Oct 28, 2007, 06:07:30 AM
I just realized.
People often point to A:R, saying "Oh, why didn't the queen vomit?"
Thing is, just because it doesn't vomit doesn't mean it can't end up laying eggs. It means no army until eggsack arrives.
The vomit thing is an aside. Just for bodyguards.
And we don't see time pass in A:R. It could have been months.
No it was mere days. when general perez asks gediman and dr. wren about it. This is what he is told.
Aww, I liked Spidey 3.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 06:15:56 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 06:10:17 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 06:00:15 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 05:56:42 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 05:52:48 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 05:46:28 AM
Queen can poop out dozens of eggs in minutes.
A drone, a handful of eggs over several hours.
In the end there are going to be excess eggs from Queen to have in storage.
It doesn't matter how many eggs the Queen produces - it can only make enough aliens according the number of hosts it has.
Aliens capture people and cocoon them anyway - so they could egg morph them instead, wouldn't be much different.
the eggs can wait around for an indefinite amount of time for hosts however. So making a shitload is beneficial to the species. Just look at what happened in the first film. Who knows how much time passed before the nostromo crew found the derelict spacecraft.
We don't know how long eggs live for.
And it's possible that the eggs Kane found were in a stasis field.
no, that blue mist was just either a way of keeping phermones from reaching them and causing them to open or to serve as an alarm as it reacted while broken. The space jockeys would have sensed in the ship that they were opening up.
Ok, I'm recycling old arguments here, but if that's the case - why didn't the other sections in the ship have stasis fields?
Here is what I'm talking about:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb290%2FBartleby24%2Feggchamberbmp.jpg&hash=83fcae97089226e5b5ebb7e83fc5f0e27075c4bd)
because of the special effects budget. lol. You can see the eggs in the foreground are less realistic looking, looks like they were just a painted on and probably were.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb290%2FBartleby24%2Feggchamberbmp.jpg&hash=83fcae97089226e5b5ebb7e83fc5f0e27075c4bd)
Can I get an opinion here? Are those dead eggs at the bottom?
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 28, 2007, 06:13:14 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 06:10:09 AM
Alien fans need to make up their minds, lol. :P Can an alien morph dead hosts or not?
There will never be a consensus unless a film says it definitively.
QuoteIf it can, then the Queen is made useless.
Not useless. Less essential, maybe...but not useless.
Not useless, how? Or entirely non-essential, if you want to put it that way.
QuoteQuoteIf it can't, it slows down the time to build a hive, making the aliens more vulnerable.
Personally, I'd not call the Aliens vulnerable just because they don't have a house.
The queen needs a hive though to start reproducing and make her egg sac. So the queen may take a week to develop and start laying eggs, and there is only one drone there to protect her (this is assuming that aliens can only egg morph for a queen, otherwise they needn't bother with a queen).
Quote from: Gates on Oct 28, 2007, 06:11:24 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Oct 28, 2007, 06:07:30 AM
[...] Just for bodyguards.
Bodyguards!? How did they end up in the mix here...?
QuoteA queen needs to build it's army to protect her before making herself mostly defenseless when laying eggs. We have now established what that phase it.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 28, 2007, 06:16:11 AM
I seem to recall the discussion with Perez pointing out a scale of time. It was a couple of days or something. I think they even refer to Her Majesty as entering the initial hermaphrodite phases much earlier. Shall have to check that.
No hermaphrodite talk.
It's just this:
"Her Majesty here is the real payoff. When does she start producing?"
"Days. Less, maybe."
Quote from: Gates on Oct 28, 2007, 06:21:37 AM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb290%2FBartleby24%2Feggchamberbmp.jpg&hash=83fcae97089226e5b5ebb7e83fc5f0e27075c4bd)
Can I get an opinion here? Are those dead eggs at the bottom?
like i said they looked painted on in the foreground of the set. Had they been actual props like the other eggs, It would be easy to tell.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 06:21:42 AM
Not useless, how? Or entirely non-essential, if you want to put it that way.
The Queen produces eggs faster, and is theoretically a decision maker when it comes to a hive situation.
QuoteThe queen needs a hive though to start reproducing and make her egg sac.
The A:R Queen didn't seem to need a hive.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 28, 2007, 06:22:48 AM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 28, 2007, 06:16:11 AM
I seem to recall the discussion with Perez pointing out a scale of time. It was a couple of days or something. I think they even refer to Her Majesty as entering the initial hermaphrodite phases much earlier. Shall have to check that.
No hermaphrodite talk.
It's just this:
"Her Majesty here is the real payoff. When does she start producing?"
"Days. Less, maybe."
Yes and therefore if the events of avp-r take place in more than 24 hours, continuity will be broken. Because the predalien should have reached full maturity and have been able to lay eggs by that time.
Chibi Kiriyama, yeah. I was not following the controversy, but awareness of it have been haunted my thoughts over this film. Some of the rumours, thankfully, have not turned out to be true. Others... Well, we shall see.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 28, 2007, 06:10:52 AM
True 'nuff.
Maybe he was just wrecked from all the savage raping the Alien did to him since the airshaft abduction? ;)
See, the Alien is so misunderstood. Ripley was just crazed with jealousy, that's all. :)
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 06:14:10 AM
well he was cocooned for hours unable to move, the smell of the resin and brett essentially rotting next to him must have been naseating. Also he probably thought he would end up like brett. It is pretty clear however that he was the intended host for the facehugger. That's why he was snatched with no blood, no wounds. He was meant to be a live host. Brett only needed to have minimal life signs to be egg morphed and he was the victim of a headbite.
The notes in '
Giger's Alien' pretty much confirm what the intention was. I still say the traumatised beheaviour and general physical weakness, in what had been a strong, healthy and confident spaceship Captain, are indicative of something else clearly going on.
The
full version of the scene alludes even more to that.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 06:15:56 AM
Aliens capture people and cocoon them anyway - so they could egg morph them instead, wouldn't be much different.
Which is much slower and far less efficient than just strapping them in front of an egg.
QuoteOk, I'm recycling old arguments here, but if that's the case - why didn't the other sections in the ship have stasis fields?
That's the only one we see with actual light shining on and highlighting it. The others might or might not have them.
The eggs are production errors. They're just badly drawn and are, as someone earlier pointed out, bigger than the guy who's descending in there. :) We're not supposed to study them anymore than Bishop's torso sticking out of a hole, in the sequel to that.
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 28, 2007, 06:16:06 AM
I'd love to share a story with you all. It's on the subject of a film I'm fairly certain some of you saw...Spider-Man 3. If I may take a moment of your time, I'd love to share its relevance to this current conversation.
Venom melts? The Sandman killed Uncle Ben? Yeah, right! And for some time, people were content with their unabashful optimism on the subject.
In all fairness to spiderman 3, the entire style was camp. You have much more leeway with camp than you do with a more "believable" style. I enjoyed Spidey 3, as a campy action comedy, I never thought it was anything more. I wouldve been pissed had they cut story out for all those villains. I didnt feel like It had NO story. For 2 1/2 hours they crammed as much story they could into it. IMO Raimis smart in my book, he just flubbed a pinch with 3.
Besides, with choosing between comics and film versions, I think its a draw. Both visions were campy.
COmic loyalty is something that gives an entirely more complicated slant on films, and Im glad we dont have that dimension with Alien or Predator. Could you imagine? Id be getting into more "discussions" thats for sure.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 06:25:17 AM
like i said they looked painted on in the foreground of the set. Had they been actual props like the other eggs, It would be easy to tell.
The entire set
is a painting, actually. :) That's Giger's art, live on screen. Only the character descending down was real and maybe a few other minor parts of it.
Wasn't there a deleted scene in the A:R script with Wren saying the aliens were modified to grow and mature faster?
I can't believe I'm still awake. I don't remember having caffeine.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 28, 2007, 06:36:40 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 06:25:17 AM
like i said they looked painted on in the foreground of the set. Had they been actual props like the other eggs, It would be easy to tell.
The entire set is a painting, actually. :) That's Giger's art, live on screen. Only the character descending down was real and maybe a few other minor parts of it.
yeah,but you know what i mean. the blue-lit part is where the actual prop eggs that kane sees are located. You never see any of the other areas in detail because they weren't relevant to what was going on, so they didn't need to show them.
Quote from: Alienseseses on Oct 28, 2007, 06:38:30 AM
Wasn't there a deleted scene in the A:R script with Wren saying the aliens were modified to grow and mature faster?
I can't believe I'm still awake. I don't remember having caffeine.
i don't recall that. I think your confusing it with the first avp. but then again it may have been in an early version of the script but then abandoned. But its not in the film, no such references exist within it.
Okay...thanks guys...
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 28, 2007, 06:33:35 AMCOmic loyalty is something that gives an entirely more complicated slant on films, and Im glad we dont have that dimension with Alien or Predator. Could you imagine? Id be getting into more "discussions" thats for sure.
There are 90 pages to this subject, on a subject that Colin has aptly pointed out no one has even seen yet. Is the devotion to what is perceived as material worth preserving really all that different?
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 06:40:48 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Oct 28, 2007, 06:38:30 AM
Wasn't there a deleted scene in the A:R script with Wren saying the aliens were modified to grow and mature faster?
I can't believe I'm still awake. I don't remember having caffeine.
i don't recall that. I think your confusing it with the first avp.
No, I'm thinking of A:R. I'll look for it.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 28, 2007, 06:16:11 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 06:06:42 AM
It does contradict Alien, but then if egg morphing is used, Aliens contradicts Alien as well.
I still don't see how. One should be used to create the other. The new method cancels them both out, by being a lot more efficient and easier. Back-up methods stop being so when the advantages outweigh disadvantages of the usual way.
If you can egg morph dead people, then it makes Queens obsolete.
QuoteQuoteThe fury alien could've sensed the queen.
But according to the directors, this whole thing is happening because they supposedly need an initial army. The Fury one should have been going around like crazy and doing this, in preparation. It was obviously killing plenty of potential hosts around the place.
Well, it could've been protecting the queen, and maybe they don't do the 'barfing' if there is a queen on the way because queens have better DNA. It is also possible that some prisoners were being cocooned as hosts for the future queen eggs.
QuoteQuoteIt doesn't make natural queens obsolete. Like I said before, maybe only the most dominant alien gets to reproduce via the 'barfing', but only when there is no queen present.
The oral thing makes egging unnecessary. Queen transformation makes natural Queens obselete. Together, they make both obselete.
As I explained, queen morphing doesn't make natural queens obsolete. It is just an option if there is no natural queen available.
QuoteWhat was preventing the Nostromo Alien from doing this to Dallas? Seemingly nothing.
It does make egg morphing obsolete, but egg morphing also makes queens obsolete (if aliens can morph dead hosts like Brett).
QuoteQuoteIf the alien can only morph living people, it takes them a lot longer to build a hive.
Hence why they should only need one or two, to gain a Queen. See how those numbers work out? :)
This does not explain how fast Hadleys Hope was overrun, however. They lost contact like 2 weeks after Newt's dad was facehugged, so it must have been overrun by then.
QuoteQuote from: Alienseseses on Oct 28, 2007, 06:07:30 AM
And we don't see time pass in A:R. It could have been months.
I seem to recall the discussion with Perez pointing out a scale of time. It was a couple of days or something. I think they even refer to Her Majesty as entering the initial hermaphrodite phases much earlier. Shall have to check that.
We don't know how long Ripley was in the cell, so we don't know how long the queen took to grow.
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 28, 2007, 06:42:36 AM
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 28, 2007, 06:33:35 AMCOmic loyalty is something that gives an entirely more complicated slant on films, and Im glad we dont have that dimension with Alien or Predator. Could you imagine? Id be getting into more "discussions" thats for sure.
There are 90 pages to this subject, on a subject that Colin has aptly pointed out no one has even seen yet. Is the devotion to what is perceived as material worth preserving really all that different?
Comic books are different than referring back to previous movies definitely, but thats really all I'll say.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 28, 2007, 06:43:55 AM
If you can egg morph dead people, then it makes Queens obsolete.
Then what about speed?
QuoteWell, it could've been protecting the queen, and maybe they don't do the 'barfing' if there is a queen on the way because queens have better DNA.
But why is there a Queen at all, if the doggy could just moult?
QuoteAs I explained, queen morphing doesn't make natural queens obsolete. It is just an option if there is no natural queen available.
But why would there ever be a natural Queen?
QuoteThis does not explain how fast Hadleys Hope was overrun, however.
An investigative party, like Cameron suggested, explains the speed of takeover; multiple Aliens working in tandem.
QuoteWe don't know how long Ripley was in the cell, so we don't know how long the queen took to grow.
Three days, actually :)
Quote from: covcraig on Oct 27, 2007, 03:18:57 PM
Ok, i havent read all the posts on this thread..but assuming the predalien is a queen....and its the same predalien from the end of the original avp movie, then why were the aliens still trying to kill the scar predator carrying the queen? because surely that would conflict with ripley carrying the queen in alien 3? [...]
Here's another important point in the argument...I'm bumping it up because it has been lost in the shuffle and I feel it's another reason to demolish this predalien queen nonsense...
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 06:47:46 AMBut why is there a Queen at all, if the doggy could just moult?
Alien3 doesn't seem to count, unfortunately. :-\
Quote from: Gates on Oct 28, 2007, 06:52:13 AM
Quote from: covcraig on Oct 27, 2007, 03:18:57 PM
Ok, i havent read all the posts on this thread..but assuming the predalien is a queen....and its the same predalien from the end of the original avp movie, then why were the aliens still trying to kill the scar predator carrying the queen? because surely that would conflict with ripley carrying the queen in alien 3? [...]
Here's another important point in the argument...I'm bumping it up because it has been lost in the shuffle and I feel it's another reason to demolish this predalien queen nonsense...
that and the lack of the crest in the avp predalien chestburster. Maybe that is why they didn't have it be a queen from the beginning and instead molts. But that is lame and you can't do that just to get around this problem and still have it be a queen. lol.
Maybe the rival queens thing was on the mind of paul anderson, who never stopped to think it is non-canon from the comics or at least most people think so. (in the comics aliens will attack other aliens who came from a different queen/hive than the one in which they did)
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 28, 2007, 06:54:45 AM
Alien3 doesn't seem to count, unfortunately. :-\
Like typical
Aliens fans, they - The Bros and the sympathisers - choose to ignore the latter two movies. Le sigh. :-\
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 06:57:44 AM
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 28, 2007, 06:54:45 AM
Alien3 doesn't seem to count, unfortunately. :-\
Like typical Aliens fans, they - The Bros and the sympathisers - choose to ignore the latter two movies. Le sigh. :-\
Granted those movies are lesser, nowhere near as good as the first two, but the events in them are canonical. You can't ignore them. i totally agree.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 06:57:01 AM
Maybe the rival queens thing was on the mind of paul anderson, who never stopped to think it is non-canon from the comics or at least most people think so. (in the comics aliens will attack other aliens who came from a different queen/hive that they did)
Yeah but in
AvP it was never meant to be a queen...and thus the problem exists now thanks to
AvP-R retardation... ;D
Quote from: Gates on Oct 28, 2007, 06:59:18 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 06:57:01 AM
Maybe the rival queens thing was on the mind of paul anderson, who never stopped to think it is non-canon from the comics or at least most people think so. (in the comics aliens will attack other aliens who came from a different queen/hive that they did)
Yeah but in AvP it was never meant to be a queen...and thus the problem exists now thanks to AvP-R retardation... ;D
well that's probably true. Even paul anderson didn't try to argue it was a queen.
Quote from: Gates on Oct 28, 2007, 06:59:18 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 06:57:01 AM
Maybe the rival queens thing was on the mind of paul anderson, who never stopped to think it is non-canon from the comics or at least most people think so. (in the comics aliens will attack other aliens who came from a different queen/hive that they did)
Yeah but in AvP it was never meant to be a queen...and thus the problem exists now thanks to AvP-R retardation... ;D
so the R is not just for rape but retardation as well. The rating makes a lot more sense now. lol.
quote author=gameoverman link=topic=7284.msg127219#msg127219 date=1193553835]
If you can egg morph dead people, then it makes Queens obsolete.[/quote]
If...
And the duration of however long they've been dead for would almost certainly continue to be an issue, even if the first attempted recycle is fine.
My guess is that they need living metabolism for the process to fully take hold, in a sort of viral way. How can dead tissue be so actively mutated?
QuoteWell, it could've been protecting the queen, and maybe they don't do the 'barfing' if there is a queen on the way because queens have better DNA. It is also possible that some prisoners were being cocooned as hosts for the future queen eggs.
I really wanted to see that sort of thing. Was even expecting to.
It doesn't look like Queens have better DNA for this to happen. These ones appear to have precisely the same bodies and capabilities as the last editions.
I'm starting to worry that we won't have any potential explanation for the ridged craniums, either. There won't be any allusions to age or some other factor, they'll just all magically have them.
The reason for this happening is meant to be to create a new army, in advance of the transformation. The Fury Alien should have been doing that. We know it was just blatently killing, with only a few abductions taking place.
Eh... Maybe it'll all be retconned in the future. A new sequel will allude to secret 'packages' taken from the planet, with the resulting attempted experiment all going wrong and stuff.
At the present time, that's just a hollow theory and still doesn't explain why the Nostromo creature wasn't attempting this.
QuoteQuoteThe oral thing makes egging unnecessary. Queen transformation makes natural Queens obselete. Together, they make both obselete.
As I explained, queen morphing doesn't make natural queens obsolete. It is just an option if there is no natural queen available.
Yet, why would natural Queens exist if any adult could be one? There would be no necessity.
Back-ups cease being back-ups when they're efficient and clean enough to just replace the usual way.
QuoteQuoteQuoteIf the alien can only morph living people, it takes them a lot longer to build a hive.
Hence why they should only need one or two, to gain a Queen. See how those numbers work out? :)
This does not explain how fast Hadleys Hope was overrun, however. They lost contact like 2 weeks after Newt's dad was facehugged, so it must have been overrun by then.
What's wrong with egging to have achieved that? One egged victim + captured host = one Queen. Queen goes laying more.
That or the Jordans and/or rescue party brought one with them.
In either case, it more than suits the scale of time involved there.
QuoteWe don't know how long Ripley was in the cell, so we don't know how long the queen took to grow.
If we base it on how fast an average Alien grows, it wouldn't be terribly long. The chestburster is already a lot more developed than most would seem to be.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 06:57:44 AM
Like typical Aliens fans, they - The Bros and the sympathisers - choose to ignore the latter two movies. Le sigh. :-\
Hey! I resemble that remark! :)
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 07:05:01 AM
so the R is not just for rape but retardation as well. The rating makes a lot more sense now. lol.
Hell...I prefer the R to stand for
Rectum...but that's just me... ;)
I don't think the film will be bad, but I think the points are pretty clear that we might have to dial down our expectations.
QuoteHey! I resemble that remark!
And it kills me inside day by day ...
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 28, 2007, 07:11:26 AM
I don't think the film will be bad, but I think the points are pretty clear that we might have to dial down our expectations.
Might...?? ;)
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 07:13:08 AMAnd it kills me inside day by day ...
I still love
Aliens... :-[
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 07:13:08 AM
And it kills me inside day by day...
Don't worry. This entire discussion has helped to renew my appreciation for the original.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 26, 2007, 08:53:25 PM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 08:51:52 PM
Where do you think the queen came from in Aliens? Perhaps one of the domiant warriors became a young and queen and started the process. The simple fact is that it has never been shown before, so what are you arguing about?
...Honestly, did you ever watch any movie made after Aliens? Queens are born Queens.
True. Queens are always born queens. We can explain our way out of this problem, though. So the predalien was born a queen, but it wasn't immediately obvious because of the different structure caused by the predator DNA. As queens develop they apparently reproduce this way... although I'm not sure how that works with how it was portrayed in Alien Resurrection... oy, okay, this is going to be hard. Let me think on this for a while.
.....so i read through most of this but i skimmed some...so guess ill say stuff that alot of people already said
so...predalien barfs into peoples mouths to make an army to protect it so it can molt into a queen and lay eggs?
then why not just have all aliens barf into peoples mouths all the time without any queen laying eggs! i cant see how this works unless the pred-queen-whatever can only barf out a limited number of embryos. which still wont make sense in the movie unless someone explains it. so no eggs or no facehuggers?
WTF man why did they ignore everything that happened after aliens?
...god this sucks sooo hard...
Quote from: Gates on Oct 28, 2007, 06:52:13 AM
Quote from: covcraig on Oct 27, 2007, 03:18:57 PM
Ok, i havent read all the posts on this thread..but assuming the predalien is a queen....and its the same predalien from the end of the original avp movie, then why were the aliens still trying to kill the scar predator carrying the queen? because surely that would conflict with ripley carrying the queen in alien 3? [...]
Here's another important point in the argument...I'm bumping it up because it has been lost in the shuffle and I feel it's another reason to demolish this predalien queen nonsense...
Sibling rivalry.
Or one could theorize that the drones of the species simply aren't as sophisticated in their sensory capabilities as those in the future :p
Quote from: Bishop2 on Oct 28, 2007, 07:45:13 AM
True. Queens are always born queens. We can explain our way out of this problem, though. So the predalien was born a queen, but it wasn't immediately obvious because of the different structure caused by the predator DNA. As queens develop they apparently reproduce this way... although I'm not sure how that works with how it was portrayed in Alien Resurrection... oy, okay, this is going to be hard. Let me think on this for a while.
Good luck with that. :)
Even the loosest of theories are going to vanish if the thing's been around for three years.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 28, 2007, 07:55:30 AM
Even the loosest of theories are going to vanish if the thing's been around for three years.
Oy, you're right. That's gonna be a nightmare from hell if that's the case.
So many people... trying to force their opinion down the rest of us' throats.
No matter how much you whine, the directors ain't likely to change the script.
I wasn't sure what to think of this new reproductive cycle when I first read about it, but if you can't beat the directors, then join with them. I have :)
I vote pretty cool.
Quote from: Predalien warrior on Oct 28, 2007, 08:17:42 AM
I wasn't sure what to think of this new reproductive cycle when I first read about it, but if you can't beat the directors, then join with them. I have :)
Sell out...where's your integrity... ;)
lol :D my opinion is just as valid as the average fanboy
Quote from: Predalien warrior on Oct 28, 2007, 08:17:42 AM
So many people... trying to force their opinion down the rest of us' throats.
No matter how much you whine, the directors ain't likely to change the script.
I wasn't sure what to think of this new reproductive cycle when I first read about it, but if you can't beat the directors, then join with them. I have :)
I vote pretty cool.
Tom says thanks and he'll be sending you your free VIP permit to ADI's studios. :)
Quote from: Predalien warrior on Oct 28, 2007, 08:17:42 AM
No matter how much you whine, the directors ain't likely to change the script.
I doubt anyone here actually thinks that's a possibility. :D
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 28, 2007, 08:25:47 AM
Tom says thanks and he'll be sending you your free VIP permit to ADI's studios. :)
All right! Things are finally coming up my way :)
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 28, 2007, 08:26:34 AM
Quote from: Predalien warrior on Oct 28, 2007, 08:17:42 AM
No matter how much you whine, the directors ain't likely to change the script.
I doubt anyone here actually thinks that's a possibility. :D
You never know ;)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi29.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc300%2FAvP_Mich%2Fpredalien.jpg&hash=d578ade6f3474c49f4a60d26a5f4e91c54ffe912)
;)
Hahahahha, that is awesome! ;D Where did you get it?
perhapes the predalien is just a genetic rogue??? wasnt suppost to happen, i mean you get genetic alterations all the time, this could just be one of those, and about the aliens not protecting scar in avp, well maybe they knew about it, and didnt like it? lol the aliens like an old couple, stuck in there ways
Quote from: Predator-S on Oct 28, 2007, 10:37:05 AM
Hahahahha, that is awesome! ;D Where did you get it?
Thats mine. A few minutes on flash and BAM! Glad you like it.
Thinking about it now it dos sound very gigerish
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg508.imageshack.us%2Fimg508%2F7017%2Fgigernecronomvmediumof4.jpg&hash=e6dd671afcb70792e3a065137a0c08ddad2a243d) (http://imageshack.us)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg508.imageshack.us%2Fimg508%2F7017%2Fgigernecronomvmediumof4.f12cfdc34a.jpg&hash=14cd766ec8a7c9ab3dc7843888ef7b414f1a1953) (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=508&i=gigernecronomvmediumof4.jpg)
Quote from: Mikol on Oct 28, 2007, 10:28:02 AM
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c300/AvP_Mich/predalien.jpg
;)
Great man :D
Back to topic:
There are two possibilities why this predalien is queen in this film, and was not in earlier. When it emerged from Scar, he (predator) was already death. Maybe chestburster just emerged earlier, cause he can not gestate in death body. That would expalin why he had no crest and arms, because he was underdeveloped like A R queenburster.
Second possibility is, that they will change chestbursters emergence at the begining of this film, and it will have crest and arms.
Quote from: shakermakerman on Oct 28, 2007, 12:46:09 PM
Thinking about it now it dos sound very gigerish
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg508.imageshack.us%2Fimg508%2F7017%2Fgigernecronomvmediumof4.jpg&hash=e6dd671afcb70792e3a065137a0c08ddad2a243d) (http://imageshack.us)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg508.imageshack.us%2Fimg508%2F7017%2Fgigernecronomvmediumof4.f12cfdc34a.jpg&hash=14cd766ec8a7c9ab3dc7843888ef7b414f1a1953) (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=508&i=gigernecronomvmediumof4.jpg)
Whoa, Giger just down right scares me...
It than a tail of some kind of monster inside that man, with the alien's mouth slightly open near it?
Hmmm...
Maybe the brothers thought of this picture?
Also, I've stated this before and I'm sticking by it....
Super facehuggers: Allow one drone and one queen embryo to have separate hosts. Queen is fully developed at birth due to being queen embryo. Can be hatched as last resort by the queen (I.E the Sulaco)
Molting: Gradual process of the development of a dominant Xenomorph molting to a queen. Includes xenomorph finding ways of making new aliens before fully developing to a queen.
Egg morphing was deleted for the 1979 theatrical release of Alien, and Ridley considers that the true and best version.
Is that really hard to understand?
i kinda feel sorry for colin , i mean he seems like a nice guy , i'm sure the guy wanted to make this movie right and make it good. sadly he was wrong... way wrong :P
I suppose I'd like to find out what people believe is actually taking place in Egg Morphing? Well, if you look at the scripted version of the human to egg scene in Alien, and compare it with what Ridley Scott had in mind when he was putting together an explanation for the scene, and then look at what James Cameron was saying about how ridiculous the idea of humans becoming spores was, Cameron didn't have a clue what Ridley Scott was thinking when he was putting together the alien nest scene
I don't mind the idea of the Predalien transforming into a queen, I think that I recall that Cameron did state that it the queen was another stage in the life cycle
but I'm a little bit concerned about these reports I keep reading about it reproducing by vomitting into hosts mouths
Oh, come now.
This is an excellent explaination as to why the aliens are constantly salivating.
To add to my post, the whole supper facehugger thing can be sadly disputed with the ginormous hole in A3's plot. An egg being hatched on a ship in orbit over a planet... Right...
accept that A3, while the assembly cut was good, made an unexpected rip in canon 15 years later.
So the predalien wasn't trying to kill the predator in this image:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb37%2Fhugol22%2FAsvP-R%2Fnormal_trailerpop67.jpg&hash=74710f44fdfe91d20e105c415f02a2e3dd37897b)
She was trying to impragnate him.
Possibly.
Quote from: ELDERPREDATOR on Oct 28, 2007, 03:07:20 PM
So the predalien wasn't trying to kill the predator in this image:
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/hugol22/AsvP-R/normal_trailerpop67.jpg
She was trying to impragnate him.
That is clearly a headbite attack.
Yeah he does it with great force, but we'll have to wait and see.
Quote from: Predalien warrior on Oct 28, 2007, 03:16:29 PM
Quote from: ELDERPREDATOR on Oct 28, 2007, 03:07:20 PM
So the predalien wasn't trying to kill the predator in this image:
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/hugol22/AsvP-R/normal_trailerpop67.jpg
She was trying to impragnate him.
That is clearly a headbite attack.
True, and chet fails.
Wolf is really badass, prepared for
almost everything.
And i´m glad that the predator this time arround uses his f**king hands and claws.
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 28, 2007, 03:51:22 PM
Quote from: Predalien warrior on Oct 28, 2007, 03:16:29 PM
Quote from: ELDERPREDATOR on Oct 28, 2007, 03:07:20 PM
So the predalien wasn't trying to kill the predator in this image:
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/hugol22/AsvP-R/normal_trailerpop67.jpg
She was trying to impragnate him.
That is clearly a headbite attack.
True, and chet fails.
Wolf is really badass, prepared for almost everything.
And i´m glad that the predator this time arround uses his f**king hands and claws.
I hope wolf rips out his inner jaw.
Quote from: ELDERPREDATOR on Oct 28, 2007, 03:56:21 PM
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 28, 2007, 03:51:22 PM
Quote from: Predalien warrior on Oct 28, 2007, 03:16:29 PM
Quote from: ELDERPREDATOR on Oct 28, 2007, 03:07:20 PM
So the predalien wasn't trying to kill the predator in this image:
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/hugol22/AsvP-R/normal_trailerpop67.jpg
She was trying to impragnate him.
That is clearly a headbite attack.
True, and chet fails.
Wolf is really badass, prepared for almost everything.
And i´m glad that the predator this time arround uses his f**king hands and claws.
I hope wolf rips out his inner jaw.
I doubt he will, would be a hell of a cool scene though.
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 28, 2007, 04:03:37 PM
Quote from: ELDERPREDATOR on Oct 28, 2007, 03:56:21 PM
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 28, 2007, 03:51:22 PM
Quote from: Predalien warrior on Oct 28, 2007, 03:16:29 PM
Quote from: ELDERPREDATOR on Oct 28, 2007, 03:07:20 PM
So the predalien wasn't trying to kill the predator in this image:
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/hugol22/AsvP-R/normal_trailerpop67.jpg
She was trying to impragnate him.
That is clearly a headbite attack.
True, and chet fails.
Wolf is really badass, prepared for almost everything.
And i´m glad that the predator this time arround uses his f**king hands and claws.
I hope wolf rips out his inner jaw.
I doubt he will, would be a hell of a cool scene though.
Yeah he won't because then the acid blood of the predalien will kill him.
(Start quote:)"Anomally: "Double the canons...double the violence! Double the nastiness! its rated r like a MANS movie!"
I like the idea but wheres double the acting/dialogue/story quality? Thats what REAL men do with their action films." (End quote.)
HERE-HERE! *clinks glass in a toast*
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 06:58:45 AM
Granted those movies are lesser, nowhere near as good as the first two, but the events in them are canonical. You can't ignore them. i totally agree.
I really cant understand putting A3 with A:Res like that. Theyre in different stratospheres. 3 was far more related to the first ones than not imo. But oh well.
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 28, 2007, 04:28:52 PM
I really cant understand putting A3 with A:Res like that. Theyre in different stratospheres. 3 was far more related to the first ones than not imo. But oh well.
You're 100-fu<king-% right...
Alien3 is a masterpiece when compared to
Rez...I don't know what all the hate is about...
I love Alien 3 just as much as the first two. Great trilogy.
I just look at the two and can identify plainly who broke the rubber band. It wasnt A3 imo.
Anyone know that feeling when youre watching something utterly crap? The speechless daze, wishing the movie was over already. I was looking at my screen with a half dead expression on my face while watching Resurrection: -_-
lol
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 27, 2007, 07:53:19 PM
Quote from: brad873 on Oct 27, 2007, 07:51:06 PM
she was a freak of nature. she may have skiped that due to human dna
And herein lies the danger of following up BS piles like A: Res... now fans are using it to make explanations for this film? Its called the snowball effect. The next avp film should be called "Dumb and Dumber 3".
WARNING - LONG POST AHEAD...(Hey, when I left yesterday, it was 60 pages-long...now, almost 100... SO forgive me for my HUGE lateness...)
AR is canon, 10 years before AVPR...So, yeah, whether you like it or not, it is part of the canon now... That's how things are...
Just because some dislike AR, it is more canon than an AVP will ever be, being the source matrial for the AVP franchise and, therefore, much more important and cannonical than AVP and AVPR will ever be...So, in AR it was clearly stated, in two scenes actually, that no preliminary RC ever existed (Perez-Gediman-Wren and Gediman's monologue) so Colin should be re-checking his take on the movies because he is clearly ill-advised...I don't liked AR too, but that has nothing to do with the canon it established, and previous ones did as well...It introduced the artificially-mixed DNA RC, but it shows that the Alien RC has always and only been the egg-laying one, followed by a human one, courtesy of the DNA-mixing between the Queen and Ripley...
We know that Queens don't have a preliminary cycle before the Egg-laying one... She was already a full grown Queen before she 'started producing' and the coccooned Gediman clearly stated that 'she added a SECOND cycle' following the egg-laying one, meaning obviously that if the EL was the first, then no other existed before it...Again, there is no plausibility in a creature having two very different reproductive cycles, one from the upper frontal side, the other from the lower back side... Also, there is movie evidence that no such cycle ever existed, so there is no leeway for this departure, unlike what Colin says...This makes me regret this movie being made because where will it stop, where will it end...? If every rookie director from now on, leaves his imprint that clearly disfigures continuity and the FRANCHISE's canon, then we will end up having a complete transvesti of the franchise...It is happening right now with this new cycle and with the new Queen with Predator skin... ::)
As a side joke, I gather when the PQ hit the doctor's nose, it was aiming for the mouth, I guess... :D ;D
All these departures are clear warning signs, together with the budget motivator and the rookie-ness imprint obsession... Who cares about canon, right..? As long it is new, and dumb, and has lots of gore and alien fights, who cares about the originals and what they established as true...?This AVP franchise is a sham, motivated out of pure greed and with no respect for the franchises at all...
This just proved it beyond any reasonable doubt...
This is a question as to with whom your allegiances lie..with the originals, or the latest 'thing'...?
I know where my allegiances lie...and where they always have... with the 4 Alien movies and the 2 Predator ones... AVP still managed to maintain, for the most part, it's respect for the source material, but AVPR is just a mistake, the black sheep of the whole lot...
How can a movie placing Aliens on Earth and having them overrun a small town, have the lowest budget of them all, clearly affecting the storytelling and the 30-year-old well-established canon..?
Shouldn't we be taking this as a hint to the grim future of both franchises...?
And this new RC shouldn't be interpreted as a clear direction from FOX that they want to bury the Alien franchise and start anew...?
I mean, they are already dismissing what the Alien movies have established, and Colin's excuse is proof of that... Only a non-fan would mess with the one thing tha has been carefully established ever since 1986 - The Alien Reproductive Cycle from Queen Egg-laying ...
If the budget is giving them excuses to make a mess of all that and get too creative for their own good, then maybe the movie should not have been made in the first place... Most people won't like it, fans are almost divided to the core (60-40) and we are just talking about 250 souls here, hardly a credible sample of the fanbase out there...
I often wonder myself who are the real fans here, the hardcore ones, the ones who liked the movies but have no real concern about continuity, canon and design issues, and those who just want to see Alien kick Predator butt (not gonna happen until the very end of this movie) or the other way around...I am a longtime fan of both Alien and Predator movies, but most of all, I value the
'Four Cs' in a franchise (Sequel stories building on the original movie's premise):
Credibility, Coherence, Continuity, Canon...[/b]
And none can be tampered with... They all need to be safeguarded...
I will never apologise studios for making rubbish departures alleging money issues... Studios like FOX have the banking to fund scripts they believe are commercially-viable entities... So, to make a story happening in a setting like this and still be cheapskates about it, giving the smallest budget ever for a movie featuring Aliens and Predators, this shows how much faith they have on this movie... They have been very wrong in recent years greeenlighting movies like FF2, Die Hard 4, and other movies who have been total letdowns, critic and BO-wise...
And the reason they are not even worrying with the marketing is because being a 60-million dollar movie, it can easily be convered quite easily on domestic territory alone, let alone the foreign one... So, they don't need to worry much about selling this turkey...
I just wonder what more 'surprises' do they have in store for us... We still have two months to go, after all :o ::)
I know, I am whining... but better that than delusional hope, or fool's hope...
Only if you fail to see Fox's recent success rate, not in terms of money, but positive critic oversight, can you believe this Fox administration knows what they're doing...
Tom Rothman clearly failed X-Men 3, clearly failed FF2, clearly failed Die Hard 4, a movie that instead of bringing back the joy of the first ones, just brought a repetitious and burned out spiceless story...
So, as far as big popocorn movies are concerned, they haven't taken a hint just yet.. :D
I blame FOX for watching the dailies and still allowing for this RC to take place instead of giving the Bros. more money to avoid this...utterly disrespectful departure from the originals...
And instead of fighting back, what fans are doing are giving them their money so that the can kep doing stuff like this until there is nothing left of the originals...
So, I hope you all know what you're doing... :o :'(
ok i don't know if i should puke or say go to hell fox because thats just stupid that the predalien regurgitates into victim's mouths to make eggs eeww! I expected it to be the same as a regular alien drone but a rogue instead.
I'm with you, Yutani. I STILL haven't seen AVP because I never wanted to encourage Fox to take a few more dumps on Alien. I'll never see that movie. I was hoping that AVP:R would allow me to forget it completely, but unless the bros explain that this predalien was engineered by the predators and not just another part of the life cycle, then they're just commiting the same crimes as Anderson but in different ways.
Quote from: Mikol on Oct 28, 2007, 10:28:02 AM
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c300/AvP_Mich/predalien.jpg
;)
Your predalien looks better than the real thing.
Alright boys and girls lets calm down...deep breath...ok you can fight again ;D
Somebody answer my question.
So the Predalien rapes you instead of using eggs? I just came to this website and I'm puzzled.
Quote from: Predalien91 on Oct 28, 2007, 05:43:41 PM
Somebody answer my question.
So the Predalien rapes you instead of using eggs? I just came to this website and I'm puzzled.
That's bacically it...its transforming to a Queen and doesn't lay eggs for some reason...
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 05:33:28 PM
Quote from: Mikol on Oct 28, 2007, 10:28:02 AM
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c300/AvP_Mich/predalien.jpg
;)
Your predalien looks better than the real thing.
The dreads aren't so floppy! Pretty funny pic too. :D
Quote from: echobbase79 on Oct 28, 2007, 05:45:30 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 05:33:28 PM
Quote from: Mikol on Oct 28, 2007, 10:28:02 AM
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c300/AvP_Mich/predalien.jpg
;)
Your predalien looks better than the real thing.
The dreads aren't so floppy! And it's black like alien should be.
Uh...
Gray...
just edited my post. thanks. 8)
i think you guys are taking this thing abit too seriously, i mean you have to get some thing new into a film otherise its just same and the one before, every has done to the alien films starting with cameron: enter the queen, then fincher: enter the hybrids, same the predator, at what point during predator do you get the hint that they travel around in groups? u just see him dumped off at the beginning, he could have meant to be the last of his kind and for some reason abandoned hi main ship, predator 2 comes in and suddenly theres more of them, we see evidence that they go to other planets, we see evidence theyve hunted aliens, and that travel together.
how is that different to what is being done in avpr? the "new" RC is just something we havent seen yet, in aliens the nest was nicely established when the marines went in so the queen was secure enough to start producing eggs, i mean remeber the queen is pretty vulnerable when shes creating eggs, theres possible soem downside the the baffing thing which means that the queens dont do it all the time only as an emergency thing? and people are still going on about the egg morphine idea seen in the deleted scenes of alien, any idea why it wasnt included in the finish version of the film? not just because it changed the atmosphere of teh film but more importantly - it was a crap idea lol.
so before you go on slagging the strauses about adding things in that werent in the films originally, just remember every one else has since after teh first alien and predator films
The idea that the Alien would take traits from the host was an idea that the Alien creators thought up.
It was an idea prevelant even in the initial Starbeast scripts (which was the precursor of Alien). Fincher didn't think that up in Alien 3.
In Aliens, we'd already seen the eggs, and knew they had to come from somewhere. With Scott leaving out the crew turning into egg scene in the original movie, Cameron was just filling in the blanks.
Neither director/writing team just came up with stuff out of thin air, both ideas were based on concepts seen in the original movie. Maybe less so with Aliens, but then again, the Aliens logic made perfect sense.
Haven't seen what lays the eggs before in the first movie. Hmmmm.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 05:44:41 PM
Quote from: Predalien91 on Oct 28, 2007, 05:43:41 PM
Somebody answer my question.
So the Predalien rapes you instead of using eggs? I just came to this website and I'm puzzled.
That's bacically it...its transforming to a Queen and doesn't lay eggs for some reason...
He's most defiantly a sexual predator then :D. That more F**ked up then the facehugger method. For some reason I feel their may be a little criticizim from parents. Some stupid parents take their young kids to these movies despite being R. I not gonna let my brothers see this one, I don't need them saying "whats the predalien trying to do?"
This movie makes Paul Andersons movie look like the teletuppies
doing bout the same thing a facehugger does
Quote from: Predalien91 on Oct 28, 2007, 06:03:57 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 05:44:41 PM
Quote from: Predalien91 on Oct 28, 2007, 05:43:41 PM
Somebody answer my question.
So the Predalien rapes you instead of using eggs? I just came to this website and I'm puzzled.
That's bacically it...its transforming to a Queen and doesn't lay eggs for some reason...
He's most defiantly a sexual predator then :D. That more F**ked up then the facehugger method. For some reason I feel their may be a little criticizim from parents. Some stupid parents take their young kids to these movies despite being R. I not gonna let my brothers see this one, I don't need them saying "whats the predalien trying to do?"
This movie makes Paul Andersons movie look like the teletuppies
Its obviously a reference to the original movie. But it feels as though its added just for the sake of being hardcore.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 06:02:46 PM
The idea that the Alien would take traits from the host was an idea that the Alien creators thought up.
It was an idea prevelant even in the initial Starbeast scripts (which was the precursor of Alien). Fincher didn't think that up in Alien 3.
In Aliens, we'd already seen the eggs, and knew they had to come from somewhere. With Scott leaving out the crew turning into egg scene in the original movie, Cameron was just filling in the blanks.
Neither director/writing team just came up with stuff out of thin air, both ideas were based on concepts scene in the original movie. Maybe less so with Aliens, but then again, the Aliens logic made perfect sense.
Haven't seen what lays the eggs before in the first movie. Hmmmm.
wells whos to say that the original idea was for the drones to lay the eggs, giger came up with the alien right? well he sure as hell had nothing to do with teh queen because he was completely cut out from aliens, the put is things have been added in before so why get so worked up about this
Quote from: lucan khan on Oct 28, 2007, 05:50:13 PM
i think you guys are taking this thing abit too seriously, i mean you have to get some thing new into a film otherise its just same and the one before, every has done to the alien films starting with cameron: enter the queen, then fincher: enter the hybrids, same the predator, at what point during predator do you get the hint that they travel around in groups? u just see him dumped off at the beginning, he could have meant to be the last of his kind and for some reason abandoned hi main ship, predator 2 comes in and suddenly theres more of them, we see evidence that they go to other planets, we see evidence theyve hunted aliens, and that travel together.
how is that different to what is being done in avpr? the "new" RC is just something we havent seen yet, in aliens the nest was nicely established when the marines went in so the queen was secure enough to start producing eggs, i mean remeber the queen is pretty vulnerable when shes creating eggs, theres possible soem downside the the baffing thing which means that the queens dont do it all the time only as an emergency thing? and people are still going on about the egg morphine idea seen in the deleted scenes of alien, any idea why it wasnt included in the finish version of the film? not just because it changed the atmosphere of teh film but more importantly - it was a crap idea lol.
so before you go on slagging the strauses about adding things in that werent in the films originally, just remember every one else has since after teh first alien and predator films
Well, Aliens on a small Earth town, in present day, is pretty much new... Not smart or what fans would have wanted, but a novelty nonetheless... ;D
And I have extensively shown that this RC's 'novelty' is not the issue, but how out-of-canon it is... with movie evidence...
Laziness in script writing is not excusable... It is the screenwriter's job to find credible settings and situations, not invent them and destroy continuity in the process...If a scene fails, it is due either to the director not shooting it right, or the screenwriter not making it right and credible, or both...
Now, if you invent a new Alien 'feature' that clearly contradicts what is canonical since 1997 and earlier, now THIS is inexcusable, because it smells like lack of ingenuity to find novelty WITHIN what is there already...
Colin seems to forget that concepts are valuable AS concepts, not needing to be seen onscreen, as SiL has correctly explained...This 'wait till you see the movie' is just sheep-herding from his part,
trying ever so flimsy to convince us that this will LOOK good rather than SOUND awful... ::)
This is a 'trap movie', namely the more people will see it, the more leeway and justification they will have for making more departures iin the next installment... because if fans can accept this, they can accept anything... :o
great agrueement minus the main point is wrong...its not agianst cannon
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 06:04:41 PM
doing bout the same thing a facehugger does
Yea you got a point. Maybe its because hes more human like. Thats maybe what makes it so wrong, but still I like the new method overall. It makes since only. Lets say the facehuggers impregnated everything on earth, and their were only aliens left, no hosts. Their all dead and the aliens overan. How would the species stay alive and not go extinct. Now they can convert to a reproduction system like ours so their not limited.
Their not doing it to each other they still need hosts....hopefully ;D
For some reason I keep getting visions of Chet Shit tail raping Wolf :D
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Oct 28, 2007, 06:11:21 PM
Quote from: lucan khan on Oct 28, 2007, 05:50:13 PM
i think you guys are taking this thing abit too seriously, i mean you have to get some thing new into a film otherise its just same and the one before, every has done to the alien films starting with cameron: enter the queen, then fincher: enter the hybrids, same the predator, at what point during predator do you get the hint that they travel around in groups? u just see him dumped off at the beginning, he could have meant to be the last of his kind and for some reason abandoned hi main ship, predator 2 comes in and suddenly theres more of them, we see evidence that they go to other planets, we see evidence theyve hunted aliens, and that travel together.
how is that different to what is being done in avpr? the "new" RC is just something we havent seen yet, in aliens the nest was nicely established when the marines went in so the queen was secure enough to start producing eggs, i mean remeber the queen is pretty vulnerable when shes creating eggs, theres possible soem downside the the baffing thing which means that the queens dont do it all the time only as an emergency thing? and people are still going on about the egg morphine idea seen in the deleted scenes of alien, any idea why it wasnt included in the finish version of the film? not just because it changed the atmosphere of teh film but more importantly - it was a crap idea lol.
so before you go on slagging the strauses about adding things in that werent in the films originally, just remember every one else has since after teh first alien and predator films
Well, Aliens on a small Earth town, in present day, is pretty much new... Not smart or what fans would have wanted, but a novelty nonetheless... ;D
And I have extensively shown that this RC's 'novelty' is not the issue, but how out-of-canon it is... with movie evidence...
Laziness in script writing is not excusable...
It is the screenwriter's job to find credible settings and situations, not invent them and destroy continuity in the process...
If a scene fails, it is due either to the director not shooting it right, or the screenwriter not making it right and credible, or both...
Now, if you invent a new Alien 'feature' that clearly contradicts what is canonical since 1997 and earlier, now THIS is inexcusable, because it smells like lack of ingenuity to find novelty WITHIN what is there already...
Colin seems to forget that concepts are valuable AS concepts, not needing to be seen onscreen, as SiL has correctly explained...
This 'wait till you see the movie' is just sheep-herding from his part, trying ever so flimsy to convince us that this will LOOK good rather than SOUND awful... ::)
This is a 'trap movie', namely the more people will see it, the more leeway and justification they will have for making more departures iin the next installment... because if fans can accept this, they can accept anything... :o
You will probably still see the movie though...
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Oct 28, 2007, 06:11:21 PM
Quote from: lucan khan on Oct 28, 2007, 05:50:13 PM
i think you guys are taking this thing abit too seriously, i mean you have to get some thing new into a film otherise its just same and the one before, every has done to the alien films starting with cameron: enter the queen, then fincher: enter the hybrids, same the predator, at what point during predator do you get the hint that they travel around in groups? u just see him dumped off at the beginning, he could have meant to be the last of his kind and for some reason abandoned hi main ship, predator 2 comes in and suddenly theres more of them, we see evidence that they go to other planets, we see evidence theyve hunted aliens, and that travel together.
how is that different to what is being done in avpr? the "new" RC is just something we havent seen yet, in aliens the nest was nicely established when the marines went in so the queen was secure enough to start producing eggs, i mean remeber the queen is pretty vulnerable when shes creating eggs, theres possible soem downside the the baffing thing which means that the queens dont do it all the time only as an emergency thing? and people are still going on about the egg morphine idea seen in the deleted scenes of alien, any idea why it wasnt included in the finish version of the film? not just because it changed the atmosphere of teh film but more importantly - it was a crap idea lol.
so before you go on slagging the strauses about adding things in that werent in the films originally, just remember every one else has since after teh first alien and predator films
Well, Aliens on a small Earth town, in present day, is pretty much new... Not smart or what fans would have wanted, but a novelty nonetheless... ;D
And I have extensively shown that this RC's 'novelty' is not the issue, but how out-of-canon it is... with movie evidence...
Laziness in script writing is not excusable...
It is the screenwriter's job to find credible settings and situations, not invent them and destroy continuity in the process...
If a scene fails, it is due either to the director not shooting it right, or the screenwriter not making it right and credible, or both...
Now, if you invent a new Alien 'feature' that clearly contradicts what is canonical since 1997 and earlier, now THIS is inexcusable, because it smells like lack of ingenuity to find novelty WITHIN what is there already...
Colin seems to forget that concepts are valuable AS concepts, not needing to be seen onscreen, as SiL has correctly explained...
This 'wait till you see the movie' is just sheep-herding from his part, trying ever so flimsy to convince us that this will LOOK good rather than SOUND awful... ::)
This is a 'trap movie', namely the more people will see it, the more leeway and justification they will have for making more departures iin the next installment... because if fans can accept this, they can accept anything... :o
well i really cant see what is so wrong with it, i mean the aliens are descibed as bus alot, more closely with bees, but soem wasps lay embryos in other creatures, which coinsidently burst out like chest bursters, so its not that out of this world that the alien would barf something out,
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 06:14:11 PM
great agrueement minus the main point is wrong...its not agianst cannon
Really...? Have you seen Alien Resurrection...? The 'she added a SECOND cycle' (after egg-laying) statement, after knowing if a Queen had a preliminary cycle, they would have know, having studied her to the point they would know when she would start producing eggs and all...
This is ALL in the movie... So I don't get your 'not against canon' refers to...
There is no preliminary cycle... This is stated in the ALien movies, especially AR, which is CANON... meaning 'established facts regarding Alien RC'...Colin says there is room for an added cycle, AR clearly demonstrated it didn't, through the words of Gediman...
So, what is YOUR proof...?
Not speculation, but evidence from each of the Alien movies... ;)
Also, let me remind you that
this is the THIRD Cycle presented - The EM from the first, the E-L from the second, and now the 'Oral Cycle' (OC) one...for one single species... :o
If this does not sound like too many cycles to you, it sure does to many of us...
You forget. It's an alien.
One, i said it before and i'll say it again....if a Queen had this not like a scientist would go walze in on the Queen and let her puke in his mouth...it did take a while for her to start egg laying maybe its because she was in this stage...
Second reasion is that this is an Alien transforming into a Queen not a natural one
Third thing is if anything this makes Aliens more adaptable more alien and more frightning and more of the perfect organism people claim it is
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Oct 28, 2007, 06:23:39 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 06:14:11 PM
great agrueement minus the main point is wrong...its not agianst cannon
Really...? Have you seen Alien Resurrection...? The 'she added a SECOND cycle' (after egg-laying) statement, after knowing if a Queen had a preliminary cycle, they would have know, having studied her to the point they would know when she would start producing eggs and all...
This is ALL in the movie... So I don't get your 'not against canon' refers to...
There is no preliminary cycle... This is stated in the ALien movies, especially AR, which is CANON... meaning 'established facts regarding Alien RC'...Colin says there is room for an added cycle, AR clearly demonstrated it didn't, through the words of Gediman...
So, what is YOUR proof...?
Not speculation, but evidence from each of the Alien movies... ;)
Also, let me remind you that this is the THIRD Cycle presented - The EM from the first, the E-L from the second, and now the 'Oral Cycle' (OC) one...for one single species... :o
If this does not sound like too many cycles to you, it sure does to many of us...
well how can you include the egg morphing? it was a terrible idea and should have been COMPLETELY deleted, barfing isnt nesessarily and new RC its just something inbetween
So we already know the alien can spit acid. Obviously, this was seen in Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection. Now apparently it can upchuck an embryo of some kind. Theory: Perhaps the ability to spit (seemingly diluted) acid seen in regular aliens is actually the redundant remnant of the embryo-upchuck ability seen in a very young queen.
(I can't really call this "regurgitation" because you can really only regurgitate something you've ingested... and I'm assuming the young queen isn't laying babies, then eating them, and THEN vomiting them back out into her hosts... unless that's exactly what she's doing and I missed something here.)
Next question becomes "How many days does this maturation take?" I mean, we can probably assume in Resurrection that the queen doesn't take too long to become an adult... let's say it's a week at most. So how old is this predalien? Either this isn't the same one from the first film (seems unlikely since they reportedly rebuilt Scar's altar) or this is all taking place VERY shortly after the first film, a matter of a couple of days. However, I don't know if Colin's told us that this is actually taking place right now in 2007, which... seriously screws up the whole timeline. No way is this queen still "young" after three years of developing. Not possible, unless you're crazy enough to think that three years pass between the opening scene in Resurrection where Ripley #8 is on the operating table... and the scene where she's getting tested on cherries and gloves.
BUT! Perhaps the Predators could freeze the young queen in stasis during those interim years... they've already shown the ability to freeze a queen in the first AVP, albeit crudely.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 06:27:19 PM
One, i said it before and i'll say it again....if a Queen had this not like a scientist would go walze in on the Queen and let her puke in his mouth...it did take a while for her to start egg laying maybe its because she was in this stage...
BINGO! thats the one, it was never speculated in AR because they didnt see it, right? i mean they were expecting her to lay eggs and she didnt really have much choice to do any thing else had the thrown a lab geek in there with her she might have barfed
Quote from: Aeus on Oct 28, 2007, 06:18:20 PM
You will probably still see the movie though...
Will see it... upon some serious scrutiny from the reviewer community...and still upon deciding CAREFULLY if it is worth seeing it in theatres or the wait till April 2008 (DVD rental)... 8) ;)
Also, will wait till the US fans and reviewers speak their minds and hearts, till I've read a lot of reviews, non-spoilers ones, from the best US reviewers, and check the feedback from the moderators and fellow posters like SiL, Chibi, SM, Uncanny, and others, to see if the movie is even remotely worth seeing...
So there is a whole ritual before lifting my arse and go watch a movie... ;D
I am not speaking one sthing and dooing the exact opposite... I have not seen FF2 in theatres because of the negative feedback, and just recently saw it in DVD, and it was far worse than AVP, Ghost Rider, Elektra alltogether... Lucky thing my videostore has Wednesday's Special discount, but I am still regretting having seen that piece of movie trash...
So, nowadays, I am wiser in my years and decided to wait for others to speak their mind first and then, if the majority has a favourable opinion 7depending how unbiased they write, of course) I will check it out... mostly on DVD, and on DVD rental, or loaned, if possible...
I will not give my money to see ALiens and Predators 'bastardised' like that...
I have my limits, you know...? ;)
Quote from: lucan khan on Oct 28, 2007, 06:07:22 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 06:02:46 PM
The idea that the Alien would take traits from the host was an idea that the Alien creators thought up.
It was an idea prevelant even in the initial Starbeast scripts (which was the precursor of Alien). Fincher didn't think that up in Alien 3.
In Aliens, we'd already seen the eggs, and knew they had to come from somewhere. With Scott leaving out the crew turning into egg scene in the original movie, Cameron was just filling in the blanks.
Neither director/writing team just came up with stuff out of thin air, both ideas were based on concepts scene in the original movie. Maybe less so with Aliens, but then again, the Aliens logic made perfect sense.
Haven't seen what lays the eggs before in the first movie. Hmmmm.
wells whos to say that the original idea was for the drones to lay the eggs, giger came up with the alien right? well he sure as hell had nothing to do with teh queen because he was completely cut out from aliens, the put is things have been added in before so why get so worked up about this
Wrong. Dan O' Bannon thought the Alien up. It was giger that came up with the designs.
Dan O' Bannon and the other writers are thanked every film for their contribution of the Alien universe to the rest of the series. Technically aside from the Ripley character, the writers of the original were left out of the sequel too, and Cameron could've done any number of drastic things to the Alien.
Yet the only thing he really changed was the addition of numerous aliens, and the queen. I feel that Cameron is less at fault than the Strause brothers are because of the simple fact we SEE thousands of eggs in the derelict chamber, and the fact that Scott omitted the egging process scene in the original.
It was a logical progression. People wanted to know where the eggs came from. Cameron showed them.
Nobody wanted to know about the predalien having protector aliens because there was no evidence of them in previous films. Nobody looking at the first few movies could be like: "Hmm, wonder where those protector aliens came from?" Because no such thing existed.
The closest thing to it: The one facehugger that infects two host in Alien 3, and you still can't convince everybody that there wasn't two facehuggers in that movie.
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Oct 28, 2007, 04:51:51 PM
This makes me regret this movie being made because where will it stop, where will it end...? If every rookie director from now on, leaves his imprint that clearly disfigures continuity and the FRANCHISE's canon, then we will end up having a complete transvesti of the franchise...
AVP-R and AVP doesnt pain me as much as Resurrection did. The entire approach to that film was a "who gives a crap, its a ridiculous scifi movie. Nobodys gonna care" mentality, and now were supposed to reguard it? IMO hell no. I dont think a director can just come along and do something so egregious as that mess and be taken seriously. Its just counter intuitive imo. Those movies then have to be taken into consideration makign rules for future films? Yeah right. ::)
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Oct 28, 2007, 04:51:51 PM
utterly disrespectful departure from the originals...
The only film id call completely disrespectful was Resurrection really. This puke idea is just a dopey idea. While theyre morphing it with camp, these guys are morphing it with nasty zombie/horror/slasher cliches, and after Predator 2, i can see where theyd get the wrong impression. I cant see where the hell Res got theirs from.
Problem with Res is they made it like a B-Movie...at leas AVP was attempted to be an A=Movie
Alien Res is suppossed to work as kind of a reflection into Ripley 8's soul. The entire struggle through the Auriga is suppossed to represent the journey of self discovery the Ripley 8 character is going through as she chooses to help the humans.
Its kind of an interesting take on what it means to be a "superhero" and where your allegiances lie and how you come up with those allegiances. Even in the last shot of the movie there aren't any humans shown, its just Ripley 8 and and Android, which would suggest that something "new" is in store for the Earth (which was just bombed by a speeding hunk of metal dropped by the Betty crew).
Its just that to bad the concept of the film is messed up by the strange presentation and tongue in cheek dialogue. It had potential to be a knockout if it was portrayed in any matter of seriousness, but it wasn't. Its more interesting on a deep level than it is on a shallow one.
But back to avp r.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 06:27:19 PM
One, i said it before and i'll say it again....if a Queen had this not like a scientist would go walze in on the Queen and let her puke in his mouth...it did take a while for her to start egg laying maybe its because she was in this stage...
Second reasion is that this is an Alien transforming into a Queen not a natural one
Third thing is if anything this makes Aliens more adaptable more alien and more frightning and more of the perfect organism people claim it is
So, in 350 years time, with scanning technology already available and perfected in
Alien WITHOUT any 'hands-on' scientist interference, they could not scan the Queen and learn her morphology eyes-only, and lear her reproductory organs were different from one cycle to the other...?
How did they know she was ready to lay eggs in a 'couple of days, maybe less' then...?
Second, don't use AVPR notions that have no basis outside AVPR...Because they are departures from the established Queen RC in vogue since 1986... and because they are the arguments targeted here, not usable as evidence...We are talking about MOVIE CANON, namely what precedes AVPR... ::)
Third, it was only Ash who called it a 'perfect organism'... And he did not know how it reproduced... so he was talking about something eltirely different...We already know it is afraid of fire... It's skin is not impenetrable to Predator and human weaponry... not even a simple bullet...
And its 'Alien' nature does not mean you can come up with the craziest idea you can think of, since we all know that everything has to have a scientifical or natural basis to start from, otherwise it will be far too farfetched to make people get involved with it, let alone believe it could exist...
Even Superman has a human side that is clearly what makes it memorable and identifiable...therefore still existing today...If he was like Martian Manhunter, it would have been an entirely different story...
Things need to have a credibility, even in Sci-fi genre, because otherwise people will be less inclined to believe that thing could actually exist out there or whatever is going on onscreen...
NO creature has 3 reproductory cycles, or better yet, three distinct way of reproducing... especially two of them so anatomically unviable...
Bees don't change reproductory cycles unless there is a very good, natural reason...
What is the reason why a Queen would 'morph' with a Predator...?
Why would it have a preliminary RC, not having even reached full maturity yet..? She only started to lay eggs as a full grown adult, and what real, credible circumstances could 'force' a Queen to change her RC...? It is not like she could decide on it on a whim, but rather Nature...
Of course, there are the movies that present far more viable evidence...
And AR alone is the key to find our way through the BS in Colin's new RC 'threw up' in AVPR...
Reviewers will pick this up, I'm sure, as hardcore fans are doing now, and people who will see an AVP movie have to be fans of both... So I don't think Colin has antecipated the feedback about the RC, hence why he is flimsily trying to convince us this concept will LOOK better on film...
You can come up with all the possible ways to go about it... you still need to explain that in terms of canon, namely why AR clearly stated there is no RC before the egg-laying, and now there is... That is canon...
IF AR did not specifically said there was no RC before the Egg-laying one, I would not like the MO, but would accept the possibility of it... But there is the Gediman monologue that clearly makes this a made-up, bogus RC just to justify lack of means to make a Queen and a Predalien in seperate beings... :o ::)
Some of the core ideas behind Resurrection i thought were very good. Cloning Ripley, trying to "educate" the Xeno's, + showing the inhumanity of the Human Race (clones 1-7) were quality ideas but it was done in such a poor way that it was just cringe-worthy + very hard to watch.
The new re-production method does not disrespect the original films, at least not in my mind. Just b/c the idea hasn't been done before does not mean it is disrespectful. I buy into the logic behind the new re-productive system so i have no quarrel with it.
Took me three days to get through--but I read all 96 pages. You guys are really fired up about this! Couple of points:
A lot of trashing Colin and Greg for the idea, but I think it's important to remember they were the directors, not the writers. If you're going to blame someone for the alternative impregnation idea, blame Salerno, (or whatever script doctor injected it into the story.) Now, a lot of you are going to say: "But they're the DIRECTORS, they could have refused to film it." Uh, okay--clearly you don't understand the Hollywood process. This is their first film. How much creative control are they really going to be able to exercise? You really think Fox, having greenlit the script as is, are going to roll over for a couple of new guys because they don't like something in the script. Aside from that, directors define the way shots are staged, how actors deliver lines, how the film is cut together--they don't have much control over the actual script.
And with regards to canon:
* We're talking about a predator/alien hybrid. We haven't seen it before so who's to say what it can and can't do--whether it can morph into a queen or not. For all we know, male predators undergo parthenogenesis in the absence of a female. They are reptilian looking, after all. This is a common phenomenon amongst reptilian creatures.
* The new impregnation process, I'll admit, doesn't seem too promising in terms of "cool," but because we're talking about a new creature, it in fact does NOT negate the other options shown in previous films. Previously, we were talking about aliens hybridized with human DNA...if you can suspend disbelief long enough to accept that there is a hostile alien that bleeds acid and reproduces inside a living human host, you can surmise that this is the way the life-cycle is expressed in that genetic context.
Personally, I think they needed a way to create lots of aliens without resorting to queens, eggs, and facehuggers (probably due to screen-time restraints, rather than budgetary ones) and opted for this method so that they could combine the predalien with the queen to create a multi-purpose "boss." (Refer to Colin's "it serves the same purpose" comment.) Now whether they sacrificed the exposition needed to set up the standard life-cycle for non-fans in favor of crap you can see on the WB any night of the week is a topic still up for debate.
I'm not going to get too worked up about this unless it looks like trash. If it's a fun film, I'm cool with it. At the end of the day, it's not Alien 5. If that ever happens, let's pray to God the person who writes it knows what they're doing...
PS: I LOVE this board!! The debates get really, really good. 95% intelligent--soooo rare on the internet.
The thing is, there is no reason a Predalien should have any more abilities than a human-born Alien. If it were like that, than human Aliens should have penises and f**k each other.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 06:53:37 PM
Quote from: lucan khan on Oct 28, 2007, 06:07:22 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 06:02:46 PM
The idea that the Alien would take traits from the host was an idea that the Alien creators thought up.
It was an idea prevelant even in the initial Starbeast scripts (which was the precursor of Alien). Fincher didn't think that up in Alien 3.
In Aliens, we'd already seen the eggs, and knew they had to come from somewhere. With Scott leaving out the crew turning into egg scene in the original movie, Cameron was just filling in the blanks.
Neither director/writing team just came up with stuff out of thin air, both ideas were based on concepts scene in the original movie. Maybe less so with Aliens, but then again, the Aliens logic made perfect sense.
Haven't seen what lays the eggs before in the first movie. Hmmmm.
wells whos to say that the original idea was for the drones to lay the eggs, giger came up with the alien right? well he sure as hell had nothing to do with teh queen because he was completely cut out from aliens, the put is things have been added in before so why get so worked up about this
Wrong. Dan O' Bannon thought the Alien up. It was giger that came up with the designs.
Dan O' Bannon and the other writers are thanked every film for their contribution of the Alien universe to the rest of the series. Technically aside from the Ripley character, the writers of the original were left out of the sequel too, and Cameron could've done any number of drastic things to the Alien.
Yet the only thing he really changed was the addition of numerous aliens, and the queen. I feel that Cameron is less at fault than the Strause brothers are because of the simple fact we SEE thousands of eggs in the derelict chamber, and the fact that Scott omitted the egging process scene in the original.
It was a logical progression. People wanted to know where the eggs came from. Cameron showed them.
Nobody wanted to know about the predalien having protector aliens because there was no evidence of them in previous films. Nobody looking at the first few movies could be like: "Hmm, wonder where those protector aliens came from?" Because no such thing existed.
The closest thing to it: The one facehugger that infects two host in Alien 3, and you still can't convince everybody that there wasn't two facehuggers in that movie.
how can you say the they queen doesnt have protectors, alien 3? it was never confirmed how eggs were on the saluco any way,
and this is gap filling, aliens arent pokemon they dont just sudden go from something small and simple turn white and evolve into a final state, this is just filling the gap between young alien and fully grown queen, if the queens weve seen are actually fully grown,
Haven't we determined the Predalien was not born a Queen? I was under the impression the Predalien was not born a queen but as a dominant Drone Alien was "morphing" into a Queen or w/e you want to call it. If this is the case than what is said in Alien Resurrection wouldn't apply in this case. A:R deals with a born Queen while here we have a Drone "morphing" into a Queen alien.
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 28, 2007, 07:10:49 PM
The thing is, there is no reason a Predalien should have any more abilities than a human-born Alien. If it were like that, than human Aliens should have penises and f**k each other.
It has more abilities because it's a young queen, not because Predators give the aliens some kind of magic regurgitating power handed down genetically.
But the idea of host attributes being passed on has existed since Alien 3.
In AR, i'm so sure they's walze up to Ripley 8 and say.... "Isen't this awesome the Queen can do this." that's if they did that..second they didn't care about how she reproduced their greedy miltary perosnal who wanted it as a weapon all they wanted is for her to lay eggs.
Like i said before besides AR's locked up Queen we've never seen a young Queen or a alien transforming to a Queen..
now you may say if they could do this why didn't Alien's Alien do it. my best guess lack of time and who says it wasen't? Lameburt was raped acording to Ridley their would have been more aliens on board after. Third, if Ash said it was a perfect organism that means were supposed to say it is because it is. it adapts it changes when it needs it. but people like you want it simple and can't take the concept of something not like what we have on Earth...
Quote from: Bishop2 on Oct 28, 2007, 07:13:13 PM
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 28, 2007, 07:10:49 PM
The thing is, there is no reason a Predalien should have any more abilities than a human-born Alien. If it were like that, than human Aliens should have penises and f**k each other.
It has more abilities because it's a young queen, not because Predators give the aliens some kind of magic regurgitating power handed down genetically.
But the idea of host attributes being passed on has existed since Alien 3.
Well, when I said that, I was more responding to the people who say ,"It's a Predalien, we haven't see this kind of Alien yet, who knows what it can do." That is a dumb explanation as to why the Predalien does what it does.
Quote from: Bishop2 on Oct 28, 2007, 06:31:13 PM
So we already know the alien can spit acid. Obviously, this was seen in Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection. Now apparently it can upchuck an embryo of some kind. Theory: Perhaps the ability to spit (seemingly diluted) acid seen in regular aliens is actually the redundant remnant of the embryo-upchuck ability seen in a very young queen.
(I can't really call this "regurgitation" because you can really only regurgitate something you've ingested... and I'm assuming the young queen isn't laying babies, then eating them, and THEN vomiting them back out into her hosts... unless that's exactly what she's doing and I missed something here.)
Next question becomes "How many days does this maturation take?" I mean, we can probably assume in Resurrection that the queen doesn't take too long to become an adult... let's say it's a week at most. So how old is this predalien? Either this isn't the same one from the first film (seems unlikely since they reportedly rebuilt Scar's altar) or this is all taking place VERY shortly after the first film, a matter of a couple of days. However, I don't know if Colin's told us that this is actually taking place right now in 2007, which... seriously screws up the whole timeline. No way is this queen still "young" after three years of developing. Not possible, unless you're crazy enough to think that three years pass between the opening scene in Resurrection where Ripley #8 is on the operating table... and the scene where she's getting tested on cherries and gloves.
BUT! Perhaps the Predators could freeze the young queen in stasis during those interim years... they've already shown the ability to freeze a queen in the first AVP, albeit crudely.
Well, he spit ACID, so that is off... And the 'remnant feature' theory is not evidence because we know, of course, it wasn't ever contemplated before Colin devised it... Or Shane...
So trying to 'squeeze' it in was what Colin did and he ended up doing a very poor job at it...
Because arguably you can, but in terms of the original Alien series, you definitely can't...
This is the most documented thing on Alien movies, and AR nailed it shut, claiming that no other cycle exists before the adult Queen RC so extensively showed...
So, this only exists in Colin and/or Shane's mind...and Fox apparently is as ignorant of continuity as they are...
And the fact that an AVP movie, a lesser movie than the originals, is arrogantly changing something credible into something totally farfetched and out-of-continuity, means this has reached the bottom...
There is a reason why they were keeping it a secret... because they knew this would motivate the 100 pages and the anger, frustration, sadeness, and bitterness fans have rightfully showed...
This is like rendering Batman gay... You can't expect not having aggressive feedback if you decide to change icons radically...
This was all a money issue... We would be having a seperate Queen and Predalien if Fox had goven the Bros. more money... They didn't, hence why we have this...
Plain and simple... ;)
the point is, we dont know every thing about the alien, its a fictional creature any way, so "it cant do that" doesnt apply, maybe weve never seen it in any off the other films is because it wasnt successful, survival of the fittest and all, the gene pool of aliens we are seeing are not the ones on LV426. so why should they be the same these aliens quite possibly die and perhapes there RC is why, it happens in the natural world
Personally no matter what they did i wanted no Queen in this so the old girl wouldn't become boring
Quote from: lucan khan on Oct 28, 2007, 07:11:33 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 06:53:37 PM
Quote from: lucan khan on Oct 28, 2007, 06:07:22 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 06:02:46 PM
The idea that the Alien would take traits from the host was an idea that the Alien creators thought up.
It was an idea prevelant even in the initial Starbeast scripts (which was the precursor of Alien). Fincher didn't think that up in Alien 3.
In Aliens, we'd already seen the eggs, and knew they had to come from somewhere. With Scott leaving out the crew turning into egg scene in the original movie, Cameron was just filling in the blanks.
Neither director/writing team just came up with stuff out of thin air, both ideas were based on concepts scene in the original movie. Maybe less so with Aliens, but then again, the Aliens logic made perfect sense.
Haven't seen what lays the eggs before in the first movie. Hmmmm.
wells whos to say that the original idea was for the drones to lay the eggs, giger came up with the alien right? well he sure as hell had nothing to do with teh queen because he was completely cut out from aliens, the put is things have been added in before so why get so worked up about this
Wrong. Dan O' Bannon thought the Alien up. It was giger that came up with the designs.
Dan O' Bannon and the other writers are thanked every film for their contribution of the Alien universe to the rest of the series. Technically aside from the Ripley character, the writers of the original were left out of the sequel too, and Cameron could've done any number of drastic things to the Alien.
Yet the only thing he really changed was the addition of numerous aliens, and the queen. I feel that Cameron is less at fault than the Strause brothers are because of the simple fact we SEE thousands of eggs in the derelict chamber, and the fact that Scott omitted the egging process scene in the original.
It was a logical progression. People wanted to know where the eggs came from. Cameron showed them.
Nobody wanted to know about the predalien having protector aliens because there was no evidence of them in previous films. Nobody looking at the first few movies could be like: "Hmm, wonder where those protector aliens came from?" Because no such thing existed.
The closest thing to it: The one facehugger that infects two host in Alien 3, and you still can't convince everybody that there wasn't two facehuggers in that movie.
how can you say the they queen doesnt have protectors, alien 3? it was never confirmed how eggs were on the saluco any way,
and this is gap filling, aliens arent pokemon they dont just sudden go from something small and simple turn white and evolve into a final state, this is just filling the gap between young alien and fully grown queen, if the queens weve seen are actually fully grown,
How can I say the queen doesn't have protectors? Because none were shown. The only ones left in the hive are regular aliens that do what regular aliens do.
The establishing shot of the egg onboard the Sulaco, with the total disregard of showing others would seem to indicate to me that there was only one.
Gap filling could be a good thing. Or a ridiculous one. I think we all agree that there is a time between chestburster and queen that the creature isn't the same size and possesses different attributes than when its growing. But the additions of abilities during this stage could become whacky in a very short order.
To me its less about the loogy hocking, and more along the current trend of adding "cool" things. Keep adding abilities and reproductive cycles and it'll just become corny. Nobody wants to see the predalien have detachable heat seaking inner mouths or anything like that. ANd it especially becomes corny when you have a superpowered alien monstrosity................and it loses.
If the alien isn't going to become any more powerful with the addition of new abilities, why bother adding them in the first place.
How do you know Chet looses completely? ;D
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 07:24:17 PM
Quote from: lucan khan on Oct 28, 2007, 07:11:33 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 06:53:37 PM
Quote from: lucan khan on Oct 28, 2007, 06:07:22 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 06:02:46 PM
The idea that the Alien would take traits from the host was an idea that the Alien creators thought up.
It was an idea prevelant even in the initial Starbeast scripts (which was the precursor of Alien). Fincher didn't think that up in Alien 3.
In Aliens, we'd already seen the eggs, and knew they had to come from somewhere. With Scott leaving out the crew turning into egg scene in the original movie, Cameron was just filling in the blanks.
Neither director/writing team just came up with stuff out of thin air, both ideas were based on concepts scene in the original movie. Maybe less so with Aliens, but then again, the Aliens logic made perfect sense.
Haven't seen what lays the eggs before in the first movie. Hmmmm.
wells whos to say that the original idea was for the drones to lay the eggs, giger came up with the alien right? well he sure as hell had nothing to do with teh queen because he was completely cut out from aliens, the put is things have been added in before so why get so worked up about this
Wrong. Dan O' Bannon thought the Alien up. It was giger that came up with the designs.
Dan O' Bannon and the other writers are thanked every film for their contribution of the Alien universe to the rest of the series. Technically aside from the Ripley character, the writers of the original were left out of the sequel too, and Cameron could've done any number of drastic things to the Alien.
Yet the only thing he really changed was the addition of numerous aliens, and the queen. I feel that Cameron is less at fault than the Strause brothers are because of the simple fact we SEE thousands of eggs in the derelict chamber, and the fact that Scott omitted the egging process scene in the original.
It was a logical progression. People wanted to know where the eggs came from. Cameron showed them.
Nobody wanted to know about the predalien having protector aliens because there was no evidence of them in previous films. Nobody looking at the first few movies could be like: "Hmm, wonder where those protector aliens came from?" Because no such thing existed.
The closest thing to it: The one facehugger that infects two host in Alien 3, and you still can't convince everybody that there wasn't two facehuggers in that movie.
how can you say the they queen doesnt have protectors, alien 3? it was never confirmed how eggs were on the saluco any way,
and this is gap filling, aliens arent pokemon they dont just sudden go from something small and simple turn white and evolve into a final state, this is just filling the gap between young alien and fully grown queen, if the queens weve seen are actually fully grown,
How can I say the queen doesn't have protectors? Because none were shown. The only ones left in the hive are regular aliens that do what regular aliens do.
alien 3
Quote from: JeremyPack on Oct 28, 2007, 07:08:37 PM
Took me three days to get through--but I read all 96 pages. You guys are really fired up about this! Couple of points:
A lot of trashing Colin and Greg for the idea, but I think it's important to remember they were the directors, not the writers. If you're going to blame someone for the alternative impregnation idea, blame Salerno, (or whatever script doctor injected it into the story.) Now, a lot of you are going to say: "But they're the DIRECTORS, they could have refused to film it." Uh, okay--clearly you don't understand the Hollywood process. This is their first film. How much creative control are they really going to be able to exercise? You really think Fox, having greenlit the script as is, are going to roll over for a couple of new guys because they don't like something in the script. Aside from that, directors define the way shots are staged, how actors deliver lines, how the film is cut together--they don't have much control over the actual script.
And with regards to canon:
* We're talking about a predator/alien hybrid. We haven't seen it before so who's to say what it can and can't do--whether it can morph into a queen or not. For all we know, male predators undergo parthenogenesis in the absence of a female. They are reptilian looking, after all. This is a common phenomenon amongst reptilian creatures.
* The new impregnation process, I'll admit, doesn't seem too promising in terms of "cool," but because we're talking about a new creature, it in fact does NOT negate the other options shown in previous films. Previously, we were talking about aliens hybridized with human DNA...if you can suspend disbelief long enough to accept that there is a hostile alien that bleeds acid and reproduces inside a living human host, you can surmise that this is the way the life-cycle is expressed in that genetic context.
Personally, I think they needed a way to create lots of aliens without resorting to queens, eggs, and facehuggers (probably due to screen-time restraints, rather than budgetary ones) and opted for this method so that they could combine the predalien with the queen to create a multi-purpose "boss." (Refer to Colin's "it serves the same purpose" comment.) Now whether they sacrificed the exposition needed to set up the standard life-cycle for non-fans in favor of crap you can see on the WB any night of the week is a topic still up for debate.
I'm not going to get too worked up about this unless it looks like trash. If it's a fun film, I'm cool with it. At the end of the day, it's not Alien 5. If that ever happens, let's pray to God the person who writes it knows what they're doing...
PS: I LOVE this board!! The debates get really, really good. 95% intelligent--soooo rare on the internet.
These are good points, but not always completely true. Scott was a sophmore director with only one flick beforehand and he totally omitted the scene where Dallas and Brett are turning into eggs in the theatrical cut. Also Scott came up with the idea to paint the alien black to show the creature's accelerated degeneration into death, yet originally the writers had the Alien being civilized creatures that could live for hundreds of years. Scott took a big hatchet to that.
They do have some (sometimes even more than some) creative control, even though I do agree that Salerno could have as much to do with this as the bros do.
Quote from: lucan khan on Oct 28, 2007, 07:29:13 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 07:24:17 PM
Quote from: lucan khan on Oct 28, 2007, 07:11:33 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 06:53:37 PM
Quote from: lucan khan on Oct 28, 2007, 06:07:22 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 06:02:46 PM
The idea that the Alien would take traits from the host was an idea that the Alien creators thought up.
It was an idea prevelant even in the initial Starbeast scripts (which was the precursor of Alien). Fincher didn't think that up in Alien 3.
In Aliens, we'd already seen the eggs, and knew they had to come from somewhere. With Scott leaving out the crew turning into egg scene in the original movie, Cameron was just filling in the blanks.
Neither director/writing team just came up with stuff out of thin air, both ideas were based on concepts scene in the original movie. Maybe less so with Aliens, but then again, the Aliens logic made perfect sense.
Haven't seen what lays the eggs before in the first movie. Hmmmm.
wells whos to say that the original idea was for the drones to lay the eggs, giger came up with the alien right? well he sure as hell had nothing to do with teh queen because he was completely cut out from aliens, the put is things have been added in before so why get so worked up about this
Wrong. Dan O' Bannon thought the Alien up. It was giger that came up with the designs.
Dan O' Bannon and the other writers are thanked every film for their contribution of the Alien universe to the rest of the series. Technically aside from the Ripley character, the writers of the original were left out of the sequel too, and Cameron could've done any number of drastic things to the Alien.
Yet the only thing he really changed was the addition of numerous aliens, and the queen. I feel that Cameron is less at fault than the Strause brothers are because of the simple fact we SEE thousands of eggs in the derelict chamber, and the fact that Scott omitted the egging process scene in the original.
It was a logical progression. People wanted to know where the eggs came from. Cameron showed them.
Nobody wanted to know about the predalien having protector aliens because there was no evidence of them in previous films. Nobody looking at the first few movies could be like: "Hmm, wonder where those protector aliens came from?" Because no such thing existed.
The closest thing to it: The one facehugger that infects two host in Alien 3, and you still can't convince everybody that there wasn't two facehuggers in that movie.
how can you say the they queen doesnt have protectors, alien 3? it was never confirmed how eggs were on the saluco any way,
and this is gap filling, aliens arent pokemon they dont just sudden go from something small and simple turn white and evolve into a final state, this is just filling the gap between young alien and fully grown queen, if the queens weve seen are actually fully grown,
How can I say the queen doesn't have protectors? Because none were shown. The only ones left in the hive are regular aliens that do what regular aliens do.
alien 3
Only if you believe in the one facehuger two embryo's. Which you seemed to indicate earlier you didn't. Not to mention a completely different delivery vehicle than loogy hocking. Otherwise its just a warrior doing what warriors do.
My biggest problem with a lot of the ideas defending the new reproductive method is the implication that the queen needs some kind of protection and is terribly vulnerable. Even a normal sized drone alien is a pretty fearsome creature so the idea that suddenly the alien queen can't handle herself seems lame. Sure she isn't full-size, but even if she is just as large as a drone she can still hold her own.
So there is a brief period where the queen is all alone and just laying eggs. Why is that a big deal? Is she more vulnerable than she would be if she had a few drones already there to protect her? Yes, of course, but that would be nature. Do queen ants pop out a few soldiers before they tunnel and start laying eggs all alone? No. Do bees or wasps or termites? No. That's nature. If a queen gets taken out somehow at this stage of unusual vulnerability then that's just survival of the fittest doing what it does. If the aliens had it easy 100% of the time then there would never be any hope for anything else, INCLUDING the aliens themselves since they would eventually have no competition for survival and ultimately end up destroying themselves. Part of what makes them INTERESTING and REAL is the fact that they are flawed. They don't go smashing through brick walls and flying like superman.
So Ash says that the alien is a "perfect organism." So what? You guys do realize that the character WANTED to protect the alien, right? If he were to just say "It's pretty scary... but if you shoot it then you can kill it" he wouldn't have really projected the kind of hopelessness he hoped to give the Nostromo crew. Even if that wasn't his motive at the time, people say the same thing about ANY animal they admire. People who study sharks say they are perfect organisms as well. It's all about admiration and not to be taken literally. If you think about it, every organism is a perfect organism. Nothing is as good at being a shark as a shark is.
Anyway, to get back to the queen; I always liked the idea of her hiding somewhere and laying her brood. I think that is a lot creepier and more realistic. The idea that someone or something could just stumble into the queen's little nest and be facehugged before they even realized it. I think it's great. And, like I said, the element of danger TO the alien just makes it better. She could be found out. She could start her nest somewhere very obvious but just in a place no one thought to look. Think of how great it would be if the queen started a nest in a place where she could hear people walking around above her or something.
I'm sure people will argue that this wouldn't be efficient. Well, sometimes nature isn't. Is a trap door spider guaranteed to get prey when he's hungry? No. He has to wait. Do some ant lions starve to death because they built their trap in a bad place? Yes. If nature was 100% efficient it simply wouldn't work and we already know that the aliens are no more efficient than any other parasitic predatory creature.
Ash was a robot no secret movtive...jsut the facts
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 07:35:12 PM
Ash was a robot no secret movtive...jsut the facts
Sure. If you ignore the fact that he withheld information from the crew the entire time and was obviously there to protect the alien at all costs. We aren't talking about some Asimov "I AM A ROBOT" thing here. The androids in the alien universe aren't like that. I would have assumed that after having seen Bishop and Call that would be obvious.
No mere robot cracks jokes like Bishop or crosses itself in a chapel like Call.
Ash was an ealrier model, his intentions were to follow orders thats it and thats what he did. Not like he was going to get a raise if he did it. also Bishop was trying to protect the umans that what he did and Call was a rebel robot...so like i said...no secret motive he was following the orders of the company..they had the secrret not Ash
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Oct 28, 2007, 03:51:22 PM
Quote from: Predalien warrior on Oct 28, 2007, 03:16:29 PM
Quote from: ELDERPREDATOR on Oct 28, 2007, 03:07:20 PM
So the predalien wasn't trying to kill the predator in this image:
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/hugol22/AsvP-R/normal_trailerpop67.jpg
She was trying to impragnate him.
That is clearly a headbite attack.
True, and chet fails.
Wolf is really badass, prepared for almost everything.
And i´m glad that the predator this time arround uses his f**king hands and claws.
Agreed.
You can't honestly try to tell me that Ash was all about "just the facts" when he said that the alien can't be killed unless you stopped watching and that point and believe to this day that the alien is invincible.
He was an extention of the company, yes. AS A RESULT OF THIS he had motives that the crew did not know about. They were therefore secret.
If the alien were a PERFECT organism then it wouldn't have failed.
Quote from: shakermakerman on Oct 28, 2007, 12:46:09 PM
Thinking about it now it dos sound very gigerish
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg508.imageshack.us%2Fimg508%2F7017%2Fgigernecronomvmediumof4.jpg&hash=e6dd671afcb70792e3a065137a0c08ddad2a243d) (http://imageshack.us)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg508.imageshack.us%2Fimg508%2F7017%2Fgigernecronomvmediumof4.f12cfdc34a.jpg&hash=14cd766ec8a7c9ab3dc7843888ef7b414f1a1953) (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=508&i=gigernecronomvmediumof4.jpg)
Perhaps Colin will end up being right. The creature on the right looks like the alien just puked that maggot looking thing into its mouth. I keep going back and forth on this one. Maybe it was always meant to be.
Peferct in adaptablitly and not having motives or morality not that it was a god, Ash said that because he thought you couldn't kill it without destroyign the ship because all the acid would melt through the hull
Quote from: Luckygreycat on Oct 28, 2007, 07:51:14 PM
Perhaps Colin will end up being right. The creature on the right looks like the alien just puked that maggot looking thing into its mouth. I keep going back and forth on this one.
At this point in the Alien saga Giger's paintings aren't going to really shine any light on what's happening. Being an initial artist and art consultant doesn't have much to do with what's taken place since... which I am actually happy about. Giger is an amazing surrealist, but some of his ideas would translate to film in a very silly way.
I doubt many people would disagree that his ideas and design for Alien 3 were... well, I was going to saw "awful," but out of respect I will say "out there."
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 28, 2007, 06:56:17 PM
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Oct 28, 2007, 04:51:51 PM
This makes me regret this movie being made because where will it stop, where will it end...? If every rookie director from now on, leaves his imprint that clearly disfigures continuity and the FRANCHISE's canon, then we will end up having a complete transvesti of the franchise...
AVP-R and AVP doesnt pain me as much as Resurrection did. The entire approach to that film was a "who gives a crap, its a ridiculous scifi movie. Nobodys gonna care" mentality, and now were supposed to reguard it? IMO hell no. I dont think a director can just come along and do something so egregious as that mess and be taken seriously. Its just counter intuitive imo. Those movies then have to be taken into consideration makign rules for future films? Yeah right. ::)
I don't consider alien Resurrection part of the franchise. I just try to pretend it doesn't exist.
Okay, 96 pages and all I see is: "they can't", "not in this universe", "he said that in the audio commentary..." and stuff.
1st of all, when Mr. Scott was creating Alien he wasn't thinking of any sequels, he was thinking on some good shit: how this would look, how scary is this shit. Or he and his friend are having a joint and think: "Tail over Lambert's leg - scary as hell, I would shit my pants, yeah, f**king A, I gotta put this down..."
Then there was no mythology, correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole universe got wind up after Aliens, ya know comic books and stuff.
__________________
Aliens are f**king animals, ya know, they can adapt not only because they are perfect, but because it's nature and some simple lizards can change their sex if their mate is dead or gone because it is a f**king instinct to reproduce.
__________________
Stop posting all these things about bad ideas and stuff, if the directors, producers and writers think that this is a good idea, they may be right.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 07:53:11 PM
Peferct in adaptablitly and not having motives or morality not that it was a god, Ash said that because he thought you couldn't kill it without destroyign the ship because all the acid would melt through the hull
If that was the case then every animal aside from man would be "perfect" for its lack of morality. As far as motives go, it has just as many as other lifeforms: to survive.
As far as not killing it without ruining the Nostromo, do you think Ash forgot about the airlocks?
Why not just admit that Ash said those words out of admiration and respect for the efficiency of the creature. Surely if there is one thing a robot can appreciate it's efficiency. Saying any creature is "perfect" is not a scientific fact in any way.
Why can't Chet just tail rape...?
Ash knew that plan wouldn't work they tried it and the Alien got them. he was calling it perfect more because its extreme adatably making it "one tough little son of a btich"
Tail rape....that's worse then the mouth and i like the mouth
Quote from: Wildbird on Oct 28, 2007, 08:03:40 PM
Okay, 96 pages and all I see is: "they can't", "not in this universe", "he said that in the audio commentary..." and stuff.
1st of all, when Mr. Scott was creating Alien he wasn't thinking of any sequels, he was thinking on some good shit: how this would look, how scary is this shit. Or he and his friend are having a joint and think: "Tail over Lambert's leg - scary as hell, I would shit my pants, yeah, f**king A, I gotta put this down..."
Then there was no mythology, correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole universe got wind up after Aliens, ya know comic books and stuff.
__________________
Aliens are f**king animals, ya know, they can adapt not only because they are perfect, but because it's nature and some simple lizards can change their sex if their mate is dead or gone because it is a f**king instinct to reproduce.
__________________
Stop posting all these things about bad ideas and stuff, if the directors, producers and writers think that this is a good idea, they may be right.
amen!
Quote from: Wildbird on Oct 28, 2007, 08:03:40 PM
Okay, 96 pages and all I see is: "they can't", "not in this universe", "he said that in the audio commentary..." and stuff.
1st of all, when Mr. Scott was creating Alien he wasn't thinking of any sequels, he was thinking on some good shit: how this would look, how scary is this shit. Or he and his friend are having a joint and think: "Tail over Lambert's leg - scary as hell, I would shit my pants, yeah, f**king A, I gotta put this down..."
Then there was no mythology, correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole universe got wind up after Aliens, ya know comic books and stuff.
__________________
Aliens are f**king animals, ya know, they can adapt not only because they are perfect, but because it's nature and some simple lizards can change their sex if their mate is dead or gone because it is a f**king instinct to reproduce.
__________________
Stop posting all these things about bad ideas and stuff, if the directors, producers and writers think that this is a good idea, they may be right.
If you think there was no mythology behind the original movie, you'd be completely freaking wrong.
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Oct 28, 2007, 07:32:02 PM
My biggest problem with a lot of the ideas defending the new reproductive method is the implication that the queen needs some kind of protection and is terribly vulnerable. Even a normal sized drone alien is a pretty fearsome creature so the idea that suddenly the alien queen can't handle herself seems lame. Sure she isn't full-size, but even if she is just as large as a drone she can still hold her own.
One point to consider is that the aliens aren't always only dealing with squishy humans. As they are scattered throughout the universe they are likely come into contact with creatures much more savage. Considering this it doesn't seem unreasonable that the species would have this built-in safety mechanism whether or not it is necessary for each situation. I do understand your survival of the fittest idea and how in nature sometimes things just don't work out. For example of the queen was left by herself and was killed before she could get her brood going that would be a consequence of their nature. For example the alien in the first movie was completely detached. It had no hope of being reunited with others of its kind. It was doomed to die alone. This is perfectly acceptable without trying to come up with a molting scenario. Sometimes the circumstances just have to be right for things to work out. Despite this it doesn't seem to unreasonable to me that it would be instinctual for a queen to prepare a line of self-defense considering the intensity of some of the creatures it would encounter throughout the universe
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 08:10:34 PM
Tail rape....that's worse then the mouth and i like the mouth
Regurgitating in peoples mouths is worse than tail raping, IMO.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 08:10:34 PM
Ash knew that plan wouldn't work they tried it and the Alien got them. he was calling it perfect more because its extreme adatably making it "one tough little son of a btich"
Tail rape....that's worse then the mouth and i like the mouth
I don't believe in tail rape and other shit that Mr. Scott and O'Banon said, because it was so long ago, trust me, they don't remember the motives, but a lot of people keep asking dumb questions and these guys keep giving dumb answers.
Quote from: WisePredator on Oct 28, 2007, 08:22:49 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 08:10:34 PM
Tail rape....that's worse then the mouth and i like the mouth
Regurgitating in peoples mouths is worse than tail raping, IMO.
might as well say its impregnating someone with a dildo...
at least the mouth thing atually works acording to how facehuggers work and nature
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 08:21:26 PM
Quote from: Wildbird on Oct 28, 2007, 08:03:40 PM
Okay, 96 pages and all I see is: "they can't", "not in this universe", "he said that in the audio commentary..." and stuff.
1st of all, when Mr. Scott was creating Alien he wasn't thinking of any sequels, he was thinking on some good shit: how this would look, how scary is this shit. Or he and his friend are having a joint and think: "Tail over Lambert's leg - scary as hell, I would shit my pants, yeah, f**king A, I gotta put this down..."
Then there was no mythology, correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole universe got wind up after Aliens, ya know comic books and stuff.
__________________
Aliens are f**king animals, ya know, they can adapt not only because they are perfect, but because it's nature and some simple lizards can change their sex if their mate is dead or gone because it is a f**king instinct to reproduce.
__________________
Stop posting all these things about bad ideas and stuff, if the directors, producers and writers think that this is a good idea, they may be right.
If you think there was no mythology behind the original movie, you'd be completely freaking wrong.
It was just a sci-fi movie my friend and Ridley just wanted to make it f**king scary.
They don't have to remember their motives. Its all written down for them by various critics and authors and told on dvd commentaries.
Just in case they forget.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 08:10:34 PM
Ash knew that plan wouldn't work they tried it and the Alien got them. he was calling it perfect more because its extreme adatably making it "one tough little son of a btich"
Tail rape....that's worse then the mouth and i like the mouth
How would have have known that wouldn't work? He was an android, not a psychic.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 08:24:41 PM
Quote from: WisePredator on Oct 28, 2007, 08:22:49 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 08:10:34 PM
Tail rape....that's worse then the mouth and i like the mouth
Regurgitating in peoples mouths is worse than tail raping, IMO.
might as well say its impregnating someone with a dildo...
at least the mouth thing atually works acording to how facehuggers work and nature
I'm against tail raping, it's just not as bad(or worse) than regurgitating.
In other words, I'd rather to see Chet ram it's tail up someones nether regions than see it puking in someones mouth :D
Quote from: Wildbird on Oct 28, 2007, 08:24:53 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 08:21:26 PM
Quote from: Wildbird on Oct 28, 2007, 08:03:40 PM
Okay, 96 pages and all I see is: "they can't", "not in this universe", "he said that in the audio commentary..." and stuff.
1st of all, when Mr. Scott was creating Alien he wasn't thinking of any sequels, he was thinking on some good shit: how this would look, how scary is this shit. Or he and his friend are having a joint and think: "Tail over Lambert's leg - scary as hell, I would shit my pants, yeah, f**king A, I gotta put this down..."
Then there was no mythology, correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole universe got wind up after Aliens, ya know comic books and stuff.
__________________
Aliens are f**king animals, ya know, they can adapt not only because they are perfect, but because it's nature and some simple lizards can change their sex if their mate is dead or gone because it is a f**king instinct to reproduce.
__________________
Stop posting all these things about bad ideas and stuff, if the directors, producers and writers think that this is a good idea, they may be right.
If you think there was no mythology behind the original movie, you'd be completely freaking wrong.
It was just a sci-fi movie my friend and Ridley just wanted to make it f**king scary.
They are ALL scifi movies with the intent to entertain. But there was a mythology behind the original film WAY before there was one on Aliens. The lore for Alien extends as far back as the original starbeast script. Aliens? Not so much.
Downright silly to say the original script was produced out of thin air without any type of history/lore/mythology behind it.
Don't ask to get your facts straight if you don't want them straight either.
Ash was bacing it on facts he had...
Now with Ridley he was expanding acording to what they put in the movie and the other movies he was talking about it and saying what that could be it was an intellagant disccusion about it not some stupid OH WE WERE PLANNING IT" like you say
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Oct 28, 2007, 07:55:15 PM
Quote from: Luckygreycat on Oct 28, 2007, 07:51:14 PM
Perhaps Colin will end up being right. The creature on the right looks like the alien just puked that maggot looking thing into its mouth. I keep going back and forth on this one.
At this point in the Alien saga Giger's paintings aren't going to really shine any light on what's happening. Being an initial artist and art consultant doesn't have much to do with what's taken place since... which I am actually happy about. Giger is an amazing surrealist, but some of his ideas would translate to film in a very silly way.
Perhaps but if someone is going to create something new I think it would be qualified if it was consistent with the origin of the design. The essence of the alien design is Giger's work. If a new concept concerning the alien is created and you can look back to its origin and see a direct connection to the essence or ethos of the concept it seems to me that it is acceptable or at least plausible.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 08:27:49 PM
Ash was bacing it on facts he had...
If he had "facts" that said that Dallas was going to crawl into the ventilation armed with a flame thrower only to be taken by the alien then he surely would have also had "facts" that told him that when Ripley found him out he would have to watch his back to avoid being decapitated. You can't predict human behavior based on "facts"... not to mention Ash had no way of knowing that the adult alien also had acidic blood.
Quote from: Mikol on Oct 28, 2007, 11:32:18 AM
A few minutes on flash and BAM! Glad you like it.
A student from the ADI school of design, I see. ;)
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 06:05:51 PM
Its obviously a reference to the original movie. But it feels as though its added just for the sake of being hardcore.
And awseome. Don't forget the awesomeness. :)
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 06:27:19 PM
One, i said it before and i'll say it again....if a Queen had this not like a scientist would go walze in on the Queen and let her puke in his mouth...it did take a while for her to start egg laying maybe its because she was in this stage...
As others have pointed out, they were monitoring the thing sufficiently well to be able to predict stuff. Plus, we know they were somehow able to study the other Aliens' biology in plenty of depth.
If absolutely nothing else, we could say they had no idea how to kick-start the process and should have put Ripley 7 in there, just as an experiment, even if they did not have the sense to get some laboratory animals in advance.
Regardless, this isn't a Queen from the very start. That means Queens might well have no such early ability.
QuoteThird thing is if anything this makes Aliens more adaptable more alien and more frightning and more of the perfect organism people claim it is
I agree. I'd loved to have had this for an '
aliens' sequel, but we're more than a decade too late for that.
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Oct 28, 2007, 07:49:12 PM
You can't honestly try to tell me that Ash was all about "just the facts" when he said that the alien can't be killed unless you stopped watching and that point and believe to this day that the alien is invincible.
Ash never says it can't be killed.
It is perhaps a testament to the power of the monologue, that you thought the character did. :)
QuoteHe was an extention of the company, yes. AS A RESULT OF THIS he had motives that the crew did not know about. They were therefore secret.
Why would a machine have secret motives? It had only orders and priorities. It was commanded to keep things secret, so it did. It had no personal stake in the result, otehr than to avoid 'fail' conditions.
QuoteIf the alien were a PERFECT organism then it wouldn't have failed.
Being a perfect and adaptable living organism does not include the requirement to be immortal. :)
All that meant was that it was engineered superbly well, from a biological/scientific perspective.
Quote from: Luckygreycat on Oct 28, 2007, 08:21:31 PM
One point to consider is that the aliens aren't always only dealing with squishy humans. As they are scattered throughout the universe a likely come into contact with creatures much more savage. Considering this it doesn't seem unreasonable that the species would have this built-in safety mechanism whether or not it is necessary for each situation. I do understand your survival of the fittest idea and how in nature sometimes things just don't work out. For example of the queen was left by herself and was killed before she could get her brood going that would be a consequence of their nature. For example the alien in the first movie was completely detached. It had no hope of being reunited with others of its kind. It was doomed to die alone. This is perfectly acceptable without trying to come up with a molting scenario. Sometimes the circumstances just have to be right for things to work out. Despite this it doesn't seem to unreasonable to me that it would be instinctual for a queen to prepare a line of self-defense considering the intensity of some of the creatures it would encounter throughout the universe
I don't have any problem with the Aliens being able to reproduce. I've often said they need to have something like that shown, once and for all. In '
Alien Resurrection', there was the fear they might get to Earth, but also the lingering thought of, "Then what?"
But that's precisely what egg transformation is meant for. If they wanted the oral method, then they should have had that for creating regular adults and kept the egging to make Queens. It would even have fitted with the 'more effort required to create Queens' thing.
Xeno...had some good agruements but not likeing it because it came to late...not really a good reason in this case...this makes the question arise if this was seen as what happened to Lameburt how many voices would be against it?
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Oct 28, 2007, 07:07:16 PM
Things need to have a credibility, even in Sci-fi genre, because otherwise people will be less inclined to believe that thing could actually exist out there or whatever is going on onscreen...
NO creature has 3 reproductory cycles, or better yet, three distinct way of reproducing... especially two of them so anatomically unviable...
Bees don't change reproductory cycles unless there is a very good, natural reason...
To clarify what youre saying because I 100% agree here, I just want to go over what I feel are the basics of the "believable" style, as Bryan Singer likes to call it. Not REALISTIC, but believable. It goes kinda like this...
Directors and fans that cater to the believable style see movies as the art of illusion. Just like David Blaine or Chris Angel, they work hard to conceal the faults in their story and preserve the illusion in mind bending sneaky ways. Its all about tricking the audience into believing something thats not really there.
Say you have a concept, a fictional concept you want to get people to admire for its eerie forebodingness and human story along with it. The first thing to do is make sure the concept is simple according to an average person. How? Get rid of the elaborate technical geek talk and try to make it sensible on almost face value. This includes thinking the concept through, and making a midpoint between super real, and plausible to regular people. Sometimes realistic explanations sound like pure BS in a hollywood film, so its a balance. The goal is to make a what if scenario if certain scientific discoveries took turns people didnt see coming. You make sure your story doesnt have too many jagged edges blatantly on display, such as Terminator 3's confusing timeline, or using 10 different ways for a creature to make offspring. It needs SMOOTHNESS. You RESPECT the order of things so you dont make it a caricature, because people will begin to see the illusion as a farce. Its a delicate balancing act that recquires much instinct. There are those that have instinct for other things, camp style, or torture/slasher movie style, this is not the same. Priorities are different with them.
Now, brainiacs Ive noticed often cant watch films with this appeoach. Theres 1 word they call it: pretentious. And theres a reason for that. None of it is important, its just care for the art of fiction as film that relates to human emotions. Folks who are primarily trained in head knowledge or concrete reality as opposed to art/instinct are less likely to see the delicate balance that has been created with these films. I've seen them completely dismiss this style as a falsehood. A lot of times extreme head knowledge of a certain subject will completely mess with your head. I recall someone complaining about cryo tubes being non factual... well duh.
Many of these types like the camp style better, because then they can be glad that these creators are deeming all of fiction as inherently ridiculous and just superfluous fun.
The camp style is where the goal is simply to have fun at the cost of coherence to a higher degree. Its usually self effacing and funny. I dont mind this, as long as the two styles stay within their boundaries and finish the franchise how it began.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 08:35:27 PM
Xeno...had some good agruements but not likeing it because it came to late...not really a good reason in this case...this makes the question arise if this was seen as what happened to Lameburt how many voices would be against it?
I say "too late" because it would have fit with being immediately after '
Aliens'. Contradicting what we know from the two sequels after that is what makes it too late.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 28, 2007, 08:38:07 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 08:35:27 PM
Xeno...had some good agruements but not likeing it because it came to late...not really a good reason in this case...this makes the question arise if this was seen as what happened to Lameburt how many voices would be against it?
I say "too late" because it would have fit with being immediately after 'Aliens'. Contradicting what we know from the two sequels after that is what makes it too late.
i understand what your saying but Alien three couldn't have it due to the Queen in Ripley and AR had a locked up Queen so...it doesn't support or stop the idea
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 08:40:12 PM
i understand what your saying but Alien three couldn't have it due to the Queen in Ripley and AR had a locked up Queen so...it doesn't support or stop the idea
But conversely, if the Fury Alien was able to moult, why did the natural Queen even exist, in the first place? That's not logical.
When back-up methods become easier and more efficient than the primary, they replace it, not add to it. That's how nature is.
I remember those days and hoping that we would be seeing the Alien transform into a Queen. Ultimately, we didn't and that should have set the precedent. I lamented it, but accepted it as the new standard.
Yay! 100 pages! Woo! :D
Well, who knows why it was needed, it might be faster way to get a Queen, and a safer way
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 28, 2007, 08:36:25 PM
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Oct 28, 2007, 07:07:16 PM
Things need to have a credibility, even in Sci-fi genre, because otherwise people will be less inclined to believe that thing could actually exist out there or whatever is going on onscreen...
NO creature has 3 reproductory cycles, or better yet, three distinct way of reproducing... especially two of them so anatomically unviable...
Bees don't change reproductory cycles unless there is a very good, natural reason...
To clarify what youre saying because I 100% agree here, I just want to go over what I feel are the basics of the "believable" style, as Bryan Singer likes to call it. Not REALISTIC, but believable. It goes kinda like this...
Directors and fans that cater to the believable style see movies as the art of illusion. Just like David Blaine or Chris Angel, they work hard to conceal the faults in their story and preserve the illusion in mind bending sneaky ways. Its all about tricking the audience into believing something thats not really there.
Say you have a concept, a fictional concept you want to get people to admire for its eerie forebodingness and human story along with it. The first thing to do is make sure the concept is simple according to an average person. How? Get rid of the elaborate technical geek talk and try to make it sensible on almost face value. This includes thinking the concept through, and making a midpoint between super real, and plausible to regular people. Sometimes realistic explanations sound like pure BS in a hollywood film, so its a balance. The goal is to make a what if scenario if certain scientific discoveries took turns people didnt see coming. You make sure your story doesnt have too many jagged edges blatantly on display, such as Terminator 3's confusing timeline, or using 10 different ways for a creature to make offspring. It needs SMOOTHNESS. You RESPECT the order of things so you dont make it a caricature, because people will begin to see the illusion as a farce. Its a delicate balancing act that recquires much instinct. There are those that have instinct for other things, camp style, or torture/slasher movie style, this is not the same. Priorities are different with them.
Now, brainiacs Ive noticed often cant watch films with this appeoach. Theres 1 word they call it: pretentious. And theres a reason for that. None of it is important, its just care for the art of fiction as film that relates to human emotions. Folks who are primarily trained in head knowledge or concrete reality as opposed to art/instinct are less likely to see the delicate balance that has been created with these films. I've seen them completely dismiss this style as a falsehood. A lot of times extreme head knowledge of a certain subject will completely mess with your head. I recall someone complaining about cryo tubes being non factual... well duh.
Many of these types like the camp style better, because then they can be glad that these creators are deeming all of fiction as inherently ridiculous and just superfluous fun.
The camp style is where the goal is simply to have fun at the cost of coherence to a higher degree. Its usually self effacing and funny. I dont mind this, as long as the two styles stay within their boundaries and finish the franchise how it began.
Ahh, intelligence. Its so refreshing. I too like this site. There are a lot of intelligent people with a passion for the franchise. The camp style works if it fits your expectations. You see the movie and you appreciate it for what it is. One of my worst nightmares came true when I saw alien Resurrection in the theater for the first time and it was loaded with camp. Let me digress for a moment and say WTF!! Camp has NO PLACE in this franchise whatsoever on any level. What a waste.
You are correct in saying that there has to be a balance. People who are bound solely by logic oftentimes can't interpret art so everything seems fake to them. They can't entertain even the idea of cryosleep because it defies logic. When you have critical thinking tempered with art/intuition you are able to see what is believable, not necessarily realistic. To say that the alien has yet another part to its lifecycle doesn't necessarily seem realistic. But when I look at that painting from Giger I think the vomiting thing enters the realm of believability.
Quote from: Luckygreycat on Oct 28, 2007, 07:51:14 PM
Perhaps Colin will end up being right. The creature on the right looks like the alien just puked that maggot looking thing into its mouth. I keep going back and forth on this one. Maybe it was always meant to be.
well, that looked to me like a swollen tongue being pierced by the tips of the horn like structures that are coming up through the victim's throat.
But I would have been happy about the Predalien inserting an ovipositor of some sort into any orifice that the host has in the manner the facehugger does, even if it's for a shorter time.
If we're going to see the predalien barf sludge into the victim's mouth, I might wait till it comes out in on DVD and I find it in the bargain bucket, or if it's going to be passing an immature chestburster orally, that might be okay by my understanding, but I'd prefer to see an ovipositor pop out of it's body somewhere.
Quote from: Mikol on Oct 28, 2007, 10:28:02 AM
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c300/AvP_Mich/predalien.jpg
;)
that really shows how dumb this idea will be. Im sure it won't be orange and just splatter on the person's face, but rather will be either translucent goo dripped in their mouth or squirted from the inner jaw( yeah, that's not too phallic and disgusting or anything. lol) but still its bad enough of an idea to still not make any sort of sense.
Remember, when it says "regurgitation", it probably isn't going to literally be vomit or juices. It will most likely be an Alien fetus or something like that.
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 28, 2007, 09:13:29 PM
Remember, when it says "regurgitation", it probably isn't going to literally be vomit or juices. It will most likely be an Alien fetus or something like that.
The Idea can work...and could be one of the best visualy in the movie
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 26, 2007, 08:18:41 AM
Let's put it this way...if this movie tries to indicate that egg-morphing was always done via regurgitation, I'll be more pissed, not less.
Egg morphing I can take or leave.
Some kind of ass-to-mouthery for new straight up new Aliens? No thanks.
How was egg morphing actually done by the drone then?
Its never been done. If it had the queen would have never made an appearance.
Haven't seen the director's cut of Alien then? The method isn't shown...but Brett and Dallas were being morphed.
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 28, 2007, 09:13:29 PM
Remember, when it says "regurgitation", it probably isn't going to literally be vomit or juices. It will most likely be an Alien fetus or something like that.
well, I wish that there was a little more information than what was going.
well, it's going to be something containing the predaliens genetic material, but if it looks as if it's just vomiting, I don't know....
Quote from: Fitzley on Oct 28, 2007, 09:26:59 PM
Haven't seen the director's cut of Alien then?
yeah it was a regular alien warrior that egg morphed people as well. There was not one indication that it was "molting" into a queen either.
If an undeveloped chestburster squirms out of the predaliens mouth into the mouth of the host/victim is that any better than looking like actual vomit? I think not.
Quote from: wmmvrrvrrmm on Oct 28, 2007, 09:27:55 PM
well, it's going to be something containing the predaliens genetic material, but if it looks as if it's just vomiting, I don't know....
Itll probably look like druel, but the point being its getting further and further offbase. Thats all.
Id like to think this franchise and even predator had a nice balance between necessarily gritty and just plain disgusting. Ok these creatures have druel. imo stop there. We cant keep hitting on slime and stuff.
Quote from: Fitzley on Oct 28, 2007, 09:26:59 PM
Haven't seen the director's cut of Alien then? The method isn't shown...but Brett and Dallas were being morphed.
Yes, but if you listen to the intro, his preferred cut is the TC.
It also happens to contradict dialogue in Aliens, when Ripley doesn't know what the hive is.
Its a theory thats been there since the beggining, thats why I'll bring it up, but imo, it hasn't officially made it into canon "yet". You'd obviously need to work around some canon issues as well. Like instituting a penalty for the creature using it (otherwise there wouldn't really be a need for the queen, and if everydrone molts into a queen, no need for the process).
Catch my drift?
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 09:28:36 PM
Quote from: Fitzley on Oct 28, 2007, 09:26:59 PM
Haven't seen the director's cut of Alien then?
yeah it was a regular alien warrior that egg morphed people as well. There was not one indication that it was "molting" into a queen either.
If an undeveloped chestburster squirms out of the predaliens mouth into the mouth of the host/victim is that any better than looking like actual vomit? I think not.
not one that it wasen't either
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 26, 2007, 08:22:46 AM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 26, 2007, 08:18:41 AM
Let's put it this way...if this movie tries to indicate that egg-morphing was always done via regurgitation, I'll be more pissed, not less.
Egg morphing I can take or leave.
Some kind of ass-to-mouthery for new straight up new Aliens? No thanks.
yeah, i mean nothing in the director's cut of alien, implied that the egg morphing process started via the alien puking down someone's throat. Now we know either way, that it still presents problems with accounting for the large number of aliens though.
If its only the predalien reproducing this way, that means it has to be puking down countless hosts throats one by one.. come on now, this is dumb as f**k.
between some of the new pics and this info, my enthusiasm for this film has dropped significantly. I mean it'll still be better than the first avp, but not as much as many had hoped apparently.
I thought that the predator scout ship was carrying a large number of face huggers when it crashed in Gunnison? And come on man, brighten up a little, I think it'll be better than you think.
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 28, 2007, 09:30:03 PM
Quote from: wmmvrrvrrmm on Oct 28, 2007, 09:27:55 PM
well, it's going to be something containing the predaliens genetic material, but if it looks as if it's just vomiting, I don't know....
Itll probably look like druel, but the point being its getting further and further offbase. Thats all.
Id like to think this franchise and even predator had a nice balance between necessarily gritty and just plain disgusting. We have druel... ok these creatures have druel... imo stop there. We cant keep hitting on slime and stuff.
true. the idea that is non-canon is the problem. Not how gross it is or how much it resembles literal vomit.
In Scott's movie, the human victims were being absorbed by the nest material and an egg would grow around the body of the human. The humans were nothing more than food for the facehuggers and the spores growing around them. That's the short version of what Scott worked out.
However Cameron had this strange idea that the humans were somehow being metamorphosed into spores as if their DNA was being altered, and he never knew about Scott's idea
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 09:31:23 PM
Quote from: Fitzley on Oct 28, 2007, 09:26:59 PM
Haven't seen the director's cut of Alien then? The method isn't shown...but Brett and Dallas were being morphed.
Yes, but if you listen to the intro, his preferred cut is the TC.
It also happens to contradict dialogue in Aliens, when Ripley doesn't know what the hive is.
Its a theory thats been there since the beggining, thats why I'll bring it up, but imo, it hasn't officially made it into canon "yet". You'd obviously need to work around some canon issues as well. Like instituting a penalty for the creature using it (otherwise there wouldn't really be a need for the queen, and if everydrone molts into a queen, no need for the process).
Catch my drift?
No actually ripley has never seen the whole hive structure only a little resin that cocooned one portion of the wall. So it doesn't contradict that scene in the DC of Alien. One reason it was deleted was because it seemed illogical for Ripley to take time to see the egg morphed brett and dallas while she has mere minutes to get to the narcissus.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 09:32:44 PM
true. the idea that is non-canon is the problem. Not how gross it is or how much it resembles literal vomit.
Well, yeah , but my slant is why go so far for a cheap 1 time gross out gag? Plot devices already exist. This mentality is from a gross out team.
I think thinking about how gross this is would be more horrific than seeing how gross it is
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 09:32:44 PM
true. the idea that is non-canon is the problem. Not how gross it is or how much it resembles literal vomit.
I think that how it will look and be interpreted is more important than whether the general idea seems non canon or not going by the rigidness of Aliens creature life cycle, otherwise if we stick to the life cycle from Aliens, it's very restricting
Quote from: wmmvrrvrrmm on Oct 28, 2007, 09:36:32 PM
In Scott's movie, the human victims were being absorbed by the nest material and an egg would grow around the body of the human. The humans were nothing more than food for the facehuggers and the spores growing around them. That's the short version of what Scott worked out.
However Cameron had this strange idea that the humans were somehow being metamorphosed into spores as if their DNA was being altered, and he never knew about Scott's idea
what? See this is the problem with controversial and questionable things related to the alien lore. All the details regarding egg morphing have never been officially 100% established and then in turn it leads to other stupid shit based on misinterpretations of it. If the idea is that the cocoon material itself simply wrapped around the person and metamorphisized them creating a facehugger and an egg, There absolutely can be no link with this vomit idea and egg morphing, even if anyone wanted to make one.
Plust that contradicts the cocoon resin's properties as it didn't do that to anyone else that was cocooned. In the anchorpoint essays, the tail of the alien is hypothesized to inject dna into the host to start the egg morphing process.
Makes you wonder how this new reproduction method can even remotely be justified, when one that has been seen in a deleted scene from one of the films, still raises questions as to what was going on exactly as well as the legitimacy of its status of being canon or not.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 09:36:59 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 09:31:23 PM
Quote from: Fitzley on Oct 28, 2007, 09:26:59 PM
Haven't seen the director's cut of Alien then? The method isn't shown...but Brett and Dallas were being morphed.
Yes, but if you listen to the intro, his preferred cut is the TC.
It also happens to contradict dialogue in Aliens, when Ripley doesn't know what the hive is.
Its a theory thats been there since the beggining, thats why I'll bring it up, but imo, it hasn't officially made it into canon "yet". You'd obviously need to work around some canon issues as well. Like instituting a penalty for the creature using it (otherwise there wouldn't really be a need for the queen, and if everydrone molts into a queen, no need for the process).
Catch my drift?
No actually ripley has never seen the whole hive structure only a little resin that cocooned one portion of the wall. So it doesn't contradict that scene in the DC of Alien. One reason it was deleted was because it seemed illogical for Ripley to take time to see the egg morphed brett and dallas while she has mere minutes to get to the narcissus.
It doesn't matter dude. If I see a wasp nest, and then see one much larger............I can still tell its a wasp nest. Just because she sees a nest thats alot bigger than the one she supposedly saw in Aliens, doesn't mean she should omit advice to Gorman in Aliens.
A simple, "Yes, thats where I saw Dallas and Brett being turned into eggs on the Nostromo." Would have given Gorman some indication of what was going to happen to the marines ifi they continued into the hive. Yet she says nothing, and shakes her head when asked if she's ever seen something like that before.
This is a woman who is by no means stupid, and has survived three times as many encounters with the Alien as the next closest human. Calm and collected she wouldn't forget to advise when she'd seen something like that before, especially when her sole purpose on the Sulaco was to advise the crew.
I'm well aware of WHY Scott cut the part out of the film. But the TC is still his preferred cut, and obviously if thats the case, he was never that concerned with the egging process in the first place.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 09:43:28 PM
what? See this is the problem with controversial and questionable things related to the alien lore. All the details regarding egg morphing have never been officially 100% established and then in turn it leads to other stupid shit based on misinterpretations of it.
One of the reasons I dont really go into fan theories.
101 pages wow you guys... the egg morphing scene was deleted from the first flick. I know that we all had our hopes up for egg morphing, but it's just not happening. Get over it. Also, this is a different Predalien than the one in AVP. This one was born a queen, the other one wasn't. Canon is maintained.
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 28, 2007, 09:38:37 PM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 09:32:44 PM
true. the idea that is non-canon is the problem. Not how gross it is or how much it resembles literal vomit.
Well, yeah , but my slant is why go so far for a cheap 1 time gross out gag? Plot devices already exist. This mentality is from a gross out team.
That's true as well i suppose, things don't need to be as gross as you can possibly make them just because you have an R rating and thus the authorization to do so. There is a reasonable limit of gore a film can have, without becoming a parody of the horror genre. Like in alien 3, in one scene blood splatters essentially all over the alien and one of the other prisoners face. Just too gory. The first two films had reasonable and acceptable levels of gore that didn't hold back but didn't skimp on it either, while still having some of the terror left to the imagination. Neither film showed all the kills, so you are left wondering and terrified by what the alien is capable of doing to you.
It seems however most of the kills will be onscreen in avp-r, and there's only so many times you can see an alien bite someone's head with its inner jaw..etc., it gets stale and loses its effect after a while when you show that sort of thing too much. Its a good thing we have various predator related deaths for the humans as well to add some variations. Otherwise showing everything the alien can do onscreen= acid burning someone, inner jaw to the head, tail impale, dragged away to be cocooned.
egg morphing can exist with thee new technique. it might be explain more in the movie...and there won't be a depate if this is Cannon because its in the movie...or least there shouldn't be becasue it works with the other techquies...i like egg morphing but this is a diffrnet sitation with more hosts involded
Quote from: Vemados on Oct 28, 2007, 09:46:21 PM
101 pages wow you guys... the egg morphing scene was deleted from the first flick. I know that we all had our hopes up for egg morphing, but it's just not happening. Get over it. Also, this is a different Predalien than the one in AVP. This one was born a queen, the other one wasn't. Canon is maintained.
*buzzer*
The predalien is a drone that molts into a queen. Thus negating the need for the egging process entirely.
Wow, this thread has over 100 pages! Surely it's important enough to go in Important Topics section? Don't you agree?
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 09:45:50 PM
It doesn't matter dude. If I see a wasp nest, and then see one much larger............I can still tell its a wasp nest.
Except the wasp nest in
Alien looked nothing like the wasp nest in
Aliens. Ripley's not lying - She may not know what it is, even if she did remember seeing it. What's more, she didn't exactly seem her most coherent right then.
QuoteThus negating the need for the egging process entirely.
And natural born Queens.
I love how Colin said he tried to move the Aliens away from being bugs, yet made them even
more like bugs by introducing molting. Brilliant move there, man! Really shows you're using that noggin' of yours ::)
My new theory:
Every alien can make eggs.
A normal alien can cover the human with a hive resin, and coat it with an internal liquid which will turn the human into an egg.
The queen has this liquid too, but it is in her gut and forms eggs inside her, which come out of the eggsack.
A premature queen without a sack can bring up this liquid and exert it from the mouth into another organism. However, with a young queen the liquid isn't completely matured, so instead of making eggs, it makes an embryo, which is normally inside the facehugger inside the egg. So, basically, the most basic core of the egg is the burster embryo.
My theory.
How I saw that deleted A1 scene was simple: The alien was acting on instinct. Although there were no eggs there, it cocooned because that was its job.
I really dont like the jump of logic to some sort of egg producing. I follow Camerons Queen and the Queen facehugger.
Yes...every bug in the world has multiple reproduction technquies and really complex ones...
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 09:45:50 PM
I'm well aware of WHY Scott cut the part out of the film. But the TC is still his preferred cut, and obviously if thats the case, he was never that concerned with the egging process in the first place.
But see, Cameron started the whole process. He chose not to research all aspects of the previous film, or ignore them and thus going with his own ideas. Anderson did the same thing with the 10 minute life cycle and now the Bros are taking further by ignoring what has previously been seen in the alien film universe.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 09:53:15 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 09:45:50 PM
It doesn't matter dude. If I see a wasp nest, and then see one much larger............I can still tell its a wasp nest.
Except the wasp nest in Alien looked nothing like the wasp nest in Aliens. Ripley's not lying - She may not know what it is, even if she did remember seeing it. What's more, she didn't exactly seem her most coherent right then.
I've had this convo with mal and deezelboy. Don't agree with them. Looks pretty much the same to me, perhaps less "filled out."
Quote from: Alienseseses on Oct 28, 2007, 09:53:24 PM
My new theory:
Every alien can make eggs.
A normal alien can cover the human with a hive resin, and coat it with an internal liquid which will turn the human into an egg.
The queen has this liquid too, but it is in her gut and forms eggs inside her, which come out of the eggsack.
A premature queen without a sack can bring up this liquid and exert it from the mouth into another organism. However, with a young queen the liquid isn't completely matured, so instead of making eggs, it makes an embryo, which is normally inside the facehugger inside the egg. So, basically, the most basic core of the egg is the burster embryo.
My theory.
Life is simple, and efficient.
Chet makes things too complicated. Simply because it's A BAD IDEA.
Hey those Marines has crappy cameras...
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 09:54:58 PM
Yes...every bug in the world has multiple reproduction technquies and really complex ones...
No, but every bug with a hive structure has females which molt into Queens in the absence of one. I'm also fairly certain there are insects which deploy their young orally - I can look it up.
Quote from: Fitzley on Oct 28, 2007, 09:55:54 PM
and now the Bros are taking further by ignoring what has previously been seen in the alien film universe.
At least Cameron had the excuse of, it wasn't in the film. He knew about the life cycle full well but went for something easier to explain.The Bros are ignoring even what was put to screen to try and justify their addition.
QuoteI've had this convo with mal and deezelboy. Don't agree with them. Looks pretty much the same to me, perhaps less "filled out."
Then you really need to rewatch it. The
Alien hive looks like the Alien turned the wall into a pulsating living organism without the pulsating. The
Aliens hive as clear strands of resin. They're very, very different.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 09:49:06 PM
egg morphing can exist with thee new technique. it might be explain more in the movie...and there won't be a depate if this is Cannon because its in the movie...or least there shouldn't be becasue it works with the other techquies...i like egg morphing but this is a diffrnet sitation with more hosts involded
I am not trying to argue that egg morphing absolutely should have been in this film, but rather that even it makes more sense than the vomiting idea. If you had to use a questionable and possibly non-canon idea, for f**k's sake egg morphing should have been used before an even more ridiculous one. Also there is no good reason that the directors, studio, ADI ..and so on were ever in a position where they absolutely had to consider either one. Actually three since we've got two non-canon ideas attached together:
the vomiting and a non-queen alien molting into one.
As I myself and others have laid out here, there are other things that could have been done to still have lots of aliens on the loose. And if the empire magazine is correct, and there are more eggs on the ship, then why did they need to use this idea again? remind me please. So its not even a necessity to explain the number of aliens beyond the two the hunter and his son are impregnated with (plus the predalien). They just wanted to f**k with things if this is the case.
And another thing about the lame ass molting into a queen theory, if all lone aliens would instinctively do it iin the absence of a hive and a queen, the dog alien by this logic should have started the process. It wasn't until it had already grown to adult size and killed some people already that it discovered the queen in ripley and from then on it changed things. What are we supposed to believe it started it, but then could stop the process by sheer will?
Shouldn't it have reproduced via vomiting as well when it attacked its first victims, after all it did not know about the queen ripley was carrying at that point.
Quote from: Fitzley on Oct 28, 2007, 09:55:54 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 09:45:50 PM
I'm well aware of WHY Scott cut the part out of the film. But the TC is still his preferred cut, and obviously if thats the case, he was never that concerned with the egging process in the first place.
But see, Cameron started the whole process. He chose not to research all aspects of the previous film, or ignore them and thus going with his own ideas. Anderson did the same thing with the 10 minute life cycle and now the Bros are taking further by ignoring what has previously been seen in the alien film universe.
Cameron knew about the lifecycle, but since the own director of Alien didn't put it in, and still till this day prefers the original cut of film, the one sans lifecycle, he added his own take. Since Scott showed no indication he was ever wanting too or going to put that lifecycle back in by Aliens, what Cameron did was a logical progression imo.
What they are doing now is something not evidenced in any of the previous movies.
Quote from: Fitzley on Oct 28, 2007, 09:55:54 PM
But see, Cameron started the whole process. He chose not to research all aspects of the previous film, or ignore them and thus going with his own ideas. Anderson did the same thing with the 10 minute life cycle and now the Bros are taking further by ignoring what has previously been seen in the alien film universe.
Camerons was an expansion. Think about this for two minutes: your concept: a single alien making a living organism from scratch. Which is most plausible? Which is less sloppy? Which is more likely to strike a down to earth chord with us? Hermaphrodites vs Queen hmm. Queen all the way.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 09:58:36 PM
Then you really need to rewatch it. The Alien hive looks like the Alien turned the wall into a pulsating living organism without the pulsating. The Aliens hive as clear strands of resin. They're very, very different.
I have SM's old screenshot comparison between the two. There ARE differences, but not enough for a thinking person to not immediately draw conclusions as to what it might be. It more closely resembled something alien than it did something human or animal. Even if it wasn't the same, it should have been similar enough to immediately flash a person back to their encounter in the Nostromo's underbelly.
Don't get me wrong, I like the egging process. Before this movie I would have liked to use it as a way for a single drone to get a queen facehugger in isolated environs. Like I said, I just didn't include it as canon. Yet.
Sil i can save you time i think one can too...the point is non have multiple and can adapt like an alien, keeping it to having one makes Aliens weaker...and less scarier because they become predictable... second egg morphing would cost alot of money that they planly didn't have. Fox gave them more money ok these guys had a tight budget...they came up with a plausiible way with no Queen for the Aliens to Reproduce...i'm sure they would have done somthign else but the budget said "no way"
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 09:59:00 PM
Since Scott showed no indication he was ever wanting too or going to put that lifecycle back in by Aliens, what Cameron did was a logical progression imo.
What Cameron did was hardly a
logical progression - The Alien in
Alien isn't an 8 foot tall termite. Scott loved the reproductive method but he couldn't fit it in, so every
other piece of information had it well and truly nailed into the minds of people who cared to looks. Behind the scenes stuff in 1979 shows the egg morphing, with descriptions of the scene, the design, what's going on.
QuoteWhat they are doing now is something not evidenced in any of the previous movies.
Man, what happened to you? You used to be someone I thought could put two and two together and figure out when something goes against what was at least actually
in the movies ...
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 10:02:03 PM
There ARE differences, but not enough for a thinking person to immediately draw conclusions as to what it might be.
Also taking into account; poor image quality on the cameras and, as I said before, Ripley not exactly being the most coherent. She was obviously flustered.
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Oct 28, 2007, 07:21:41 PM
And the 'remnant feature' theory is not evidence because we know, of course, it wasn't ever contemplated before Colin devised it... Or Shane...
That's not relevant to whether it fits into continuity or not. By that logic, there should be no such thing as a queen because it didn't exist until Cameron thought it up in a later movie. ;)
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 10:02:49 PM
the point is non have multiple and can adapt like an alien
There's a species on Earth which has three reproductive methods, actually.
...Y'know, this explains why Colin never answered me about what the eggs look like. There
are no eggs.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 10:05:22 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 10:02:49 PM
the point is non have multiple and can adapt like an alien
There's a species on Earth which has three reproductive methods, actually.
...Y'know, this explains why Colin never answered me about what the eggs look like. There are no eggs.
Well theres a few...happy Sil?
and like i said in my other post, my first gues is budget restraints
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 10:03:52 PM
What Cameron did was hardly a logical progression
Id rather see a Queen than have to deal with hermaphrodite science. Thats too much.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 09:58:36 PM
Then you really need to rewatch it. The Alien hive looks like the Alien turned the wall into a pulsating living organism without the pulsating. The Aliens hive as clear strands of resin. They're very, very different.
In A:R, they had something like a hive that did pulse.
You know what I find the funniest is the fact that every single person on here belittles the entire Alien and Predator history. Why is it that no one of you on here have anything positive to say about the two most popular and credited monsters on this entire planet!
Just look at the big picture - The Alien is named Alien as it and its methods of mass-reproduction are indeed Alien! No one will ever be able to explain exaclty how the Alien uses its metamorphasis to intertwine with DNA of other living species...and do you know why this is..................................its because its ALIEN! Come on people - get over it!
Secondly I think that Colin Strause has no reason to explain himself in regards to his idea about the Predalien using 'rape' as a reproductive tool. If you think about it...isnt that what a facehugger does??? They forcefully rape their victims face and lay egg or eggs into the victims stomach and use the nutrients within to create an embryo. Chet (I believe) already has the egg and embryo created as he is a Queen already and taken the unique DNA of the predator from the end of AvP, which is why the use of a face hugger is no longer needed as he takes the role of that creature. There are facehuggers in AvP-R which need explaining as to how they have an active role in the movie, as there are no eggs and no queen to survive from the end of AvP, unless the queen that Scar put to the bottom of the Antarctic managed to resurface itself at a later stage which was not seen, but this would still not explain as to how they managed to reach population. IMO I think that the Strause Bros' method / idea a fantastic new one. I can't wait to see it!
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 10:02:03 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 09:58:36 PM
Then you really need to rewatch it. The Alien hive looks like the Alien turned the wall into a pulsating living organism without the pulsating. The Aliens hive as clear strands of resin. They're very, very different.
I have SM's old screenshot comparison between the two. There ARE differences, but not enough for a thinking person to not immediately draw conclusions as to what it might be. It more closely resembled something alien than it did something human or animal. Even if it wasn't the same, it should have been similar enough to immediately flash a person back to their encounter in the Nostromo's underbelly.
Don't get me wrong, I like the egging process. Before this movie I would have liked to use it as a way for a single drone to get a queen facehugger in isolated environs. Like I said, I just didn't include it as canon. Yet.
who says once the cameras of the marines(obviously the marines as well) were inside the hive and seeing the people cocooned to the walls, that ripley didn't recognize it? She put her info on disc for the marines to brief themselves on, and didn't explain every single little detail during the film. Plus by then, when everyone saw dead people cocooned to the wall, as well as the live one, they kind of knew what was going on at least to a certain degree. They didn't know the live person had been impregnated, but other than that, i think it was obvious.
Why do you think ripley says that dietrich and apone can't be helped, she must have been thinking of brett and dallas. Not necessarily but it does not contradict the scene in the director's cut of Alien. Now don't get me wrong, I have argued before that egg morphing should probably be considered non-canon, but indeed it does not belong in the same exact category as queen molting or oral embryo implantation.
I am patiently twiddling my thumbs waiting for some brave scriptwriter/producer/director/special effects team to bring to the screens, the most ignored aspect of the Alien life-cycle, as originally conceived by Dan O`Bannon for the original ALIEN script. That being that (in the first scripting for the Nostromo astronauts who discover the Space Jockey Wreck) on LV 426 there was a Pyramid found with heiroglyphics that depicted the Egg-FaceHugger-Chestburster-Drone Lifecycle; and the Pyramid was actually made BY THE ALIENS, (not Predators as in AVP!). The Pyramid was supposed to be an intrinsic part of the Hive`s Continuing life-cycle just like an ant hill or a termite mound. This original concept credited the ALIEN species with complex abilities and even Culture interlinked with their incredibly ruthless ferocity!! Such a great concept.....
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 10:03:52 PM
What Cameron did was hardly a logical progression - The Alien in Alien isn't an 8 foot tall termite. Scott loved the reproductive method but he couldn't fit it in, so every other piece of information had it well and truly nailed into the minds of people who cared to looks. Behind the scenes stuff in 1979 shows the egg morphing, with descriptions of the scene, the design, what's going on.
Yes I'm sure Cameron knew about it. But again, its up to directors/writers to protect their own work in an openended franchise like Alien. Scott and co wanted to use the egging process, they should have put it in originally. Cameron couldn't have done the queen then. Likewise if Cameron wanted Newt and Hicks to survive, he should've shown them safely tucked away in bed at Gateway station with Ripley in a rocking chair singing nursery rhymes. By omission by Scott and co, Cameron is allowed to explain what the source of the Alien eggs were, just like by omission, Fincher is allowed to kill Newt and Hicks at Alien 3 because Cameron never showed their happily ever after.
Quote
Man, what happened to you? You used to be someone I thought could put two and two together and figure out when something goes against what was at least actually in the movies ...
Wait. What? I don't follow you. Either you've misunderstood what I said, or vice versa. Subsequently, two plus two equals four.
Quote
Also taking into account; poor image quality on the cameras and, as I said before, Ripley not exactly being the most coherent. She was obviously flustered.
Ripley is a ninja. She doesn't get flustered. She walks into an Alien hive without weapons training and combats Alien queens with powerloaders and a force of will.
Quote from: kommander696 on Oct 28, 2007, 10:12:42 PM
No one will ever be able to explain exaclty how the Alien uses its metamorphasis to intertwine with DNA of other living species...and do you know why this is..................................its because its ALIEN!
The mysterious aspect comes AFTER the crew makes the rules and such behind the scenes. Its up to them to even make that mysterious element work properly, and that takes good instinct.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 10:03:52 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 09:59:00 PM
Since Scott showed no indication he was ever wanting too or going to put that lifecycle back in by Aliens, what Cameron did was a logical progression imo.
What Cameron did was hardly a logical progression - The Alien in Alien isn't an 8 foot tall termite. Scott loved the reproductive method but he couldn't fit it in, so every other piece of information had it well and truly nailed into the minds of people who cared to looks. Behind the scenes stuff in 1979 shows the egg morphing, with descriptions of the scene, the design, what's going on.
QuoteWhat they are doing now is something not evidenced in any of the previous movies.
Man, what happened to you? You used to be someone I thought could put two and two together and figure out when something goes against what was at least actually in the movies ...
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 10:02:03 PM
There ARE differences, but not enough for a thinking person to immediately draw conclusions as to what it might be.
Also taking into account; poor image quality on the cameras and, as I said before, Ripley not exactly being the most coherent. She was obviously flustered.
For most of your arguments here, im totally with you, but The introduction of the queen in Aliens, is hardly as much of a clusterf**k as the queen molting or the vomiting thing. They don't explain something that has been speculated before and never seen. They are just random, arbitrary additions to the alien lore, which do indeed contradict things established in the alien films.
The queen doesn't. As many who like the egg morphing idea have said, its compatible with the queen, so nothing was lost. After all, it never made sense that egg morphing could have been the primary and sole reproductive behavior of the aliens, its just not efficient enough. Especially considering the number of eggs on the derelict ship, that many other organisms could not have possibly all been egg morphed.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 10:14:13 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 10:02:03 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 09:58:36 PM
Then you really need to rewatch it. The Alien hive looks like the Alien turned the wall into a pulsating living organism without the pulsating. The Aliens hive as clear strands of resin. They're very, very different.
I have SM's old screenshot comparison between the two. There ARE differences, but not enough for a thinking person to not immediately draw conclusions as to what it might be. It more closely resembled something alien than it did something human or animal. Even if it wasn't the same, it should have been similar enough to immediately flash a person back to their encounter in the Nostromo's underbelly.
Don't get me wrong, I like the egging process. Before this movie I would have liked to use it as a way for a single drone to get a queen facehugger in isolated environs. Like I said, I just didn't include it as canon. Yet.
who says once the cameras of the marines(obviously the marines as well) were inside the hive and seeing the people cocooned to the walls, that ripley didn't recognize it? She put her info on disc for the marines to brief themselves on, and didn't explain every single little detail during the film. Plus by then, when everyone saw dead people cocooned to the wall, as well as the live one, they kind of knew what was going on at least to a certain degree. They didn't know the live person had been impregnated, but other than that, i think it was obvious.
Why do you think ripley says that dietrich and apone can't be helped, she must have been thinking of brett and dallas. Not necessarily but it does not contradict the scene in the director's cut of Alien. Now don't get me wrong, I have argued before that egg morphing should probably be considered non-canon, but indeed it does not belong in the same exact category as queen molting or oral embryo implantation.
Thats where she should've said something different, as the people inside were obviously not turning into eggs, they were being forcefed alien facehuggers for breakfast.
lots of people...are thinking this as something its not...its being used as a last resort...not everyday alien...plus i bet it was based on budget...y do people ingnore the ffact they didn't have the money to do all these things you expect from them
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 10:21:09 PM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 10:14:13 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 10:02:03 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 09:58:36 PM
Then you really need to rewatch it. The Alien hive looks like the Alien turned the wall into a pulsating living organism without the pulsating. The Aliens hive as clear strands of resin. They're very, very different.
I have SM's old screenshot comparison between the two. There ARE differences, but not enough for a thinking person to not immediately draw conclusions as to what it might be. It more closely resembled something alien than it did something human or animal. Even if it wasn't the same, it should have been similar enough to immediately flash a person back to their encounter in the Nostromo's underbelly.
Don't get me wrong, I like the egging process. Before this movie I would have liked to use it as a way for a single drone to get a queen facehugger in isolated environs. Like I said, I just didn't include it as canon. Yet.
who says once the cameras of the marines(obviously the marines as well) were inside the hive and seeing the people cocooned to the walls, that ripley didn't recognize it? She put her info on disc for the marines to brief themselves on, and didn't explain every single little detail during the film. Plus by then, when everyone saw dead people cocooned to the wall, as well as the live one, they kind of knew what was going on at least to a certain degree. They didn't know the live person had been impregnated, but other than that, i think it was obvious.
Why do you think ripley says that dietrich and apone can't be helped, she must have been thinking of brett and dallas. Not necessarily but it does not contradict the scene in the director's cut of Alien. Now don't get me wrong, I have argued before that egg morphing should probably be considered non-canon, but indeed it does not belong in the same exact category as queen molting or oral embryo implantation.
Thats where she should've said something different, as the people inside were obviously not turning into eggs, they were being forcefed alien facehuggers for breakfast.
Actually the concept of the aliens grabbing live hosts for the facehuggers was foreign to her at this point. She speculates about it later in aliens as if she wasn't aware of it before. She upon seeing people cocooned, probably assumed what was happening to brett was happening there, until she saw the live person give birth to a chestburster.
Or unless she never saw anybody getting egged in the original movie. Just like Sir Ridley prefers.
The directors cut isn't an actual DC. The Theatrical is. The DC is more of a fancut made by a director.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 10:27:09 PM
Or unless she never saw anybody getting egged in the original movie. Just like Sir Ridley prefers.
The directors cut isn't an actual DC. The Theatrical is. The DC is more of a fancut made by a director.
kinda both....as he said...after thriy years of looking at something you find things you wantt to change
He also said that while he was happy with the DC, he preferred the TC in the 2003 commentary for the Alien dvd.
Hence again, he chooses the version without the egging scene. Making it easier for everyone.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 10:27:09 PM
Or unless she never saw anybody getting egged in the original movie. Just like Sir Ridley prefers.
The directors cut isn't an actual DC. The Theatrical is. The DC is more of a fancut made by a director.
there's validity to that viewpoint too. But the fact that it was filmed and seen by fans, places it at least a few notches of legitimacy higher than the vomiting or queen molting which have never been speculated by fans, never intended, never wanted and never seen in any scene of any previous films, not even in a deleted one.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 10:22:41 PM
ly do people ingnore the ffact they didn't have the money to do all these things you expect from them
A rubber facehugger is too much money? They have tons of them in the film already. What about an egg? How much does liquid fake vomit cost? More i bet lol!
Maybe cut out one of those heads exploding and we can get less arbitrary scenes.
From Alien III, Fasano's screenplay of Vincent Ward's story
THE ALIEN CHEST BURSTER
SLITHERS out of Ripley's mouth --
INTO JOHN'S!!
Reptilian tail whips about before disappearing down his gullet.
John falls back against a computer console.
Gagging. Fights to speak.
Ripley raises herself up on one elbow.
Alien mucous drooling down her chin.
Hair matted against her forehead.
RIPLEY
Why?
JOHN
Choking. It was the only way.
He drops the open book in front of her:
She sees the etching.
JOHN
Gulps back the oozing slime.
Struggles to his feet.
Facehugger=Egg=Queen=lots of money
Quote from: wmmvrrvrrmm on Oct 28, 2007, 10:31:44 PM
From Alien III, Fasano's screenplay of Vincent Ward's story
THE ALIEN CHEST BURSTER
SLITHERS out of Ripley's mouth --
INTO JOHN'S!!
Reptilian tail whips about before disappearing down his gullet.
John falls back against a computer console.
Gagging. Fights to speak.
Ripley raises herself up on one elbow.
Alien mucous drooling down her chin.
Hair matted against her forehead.
RIPLEY
Why?
JOHN
Choking. It was the only way.
He drops the open book in front of her:
She sees the etching.
JOHN
Gulps back the oozing slime.
Struggles to his feet.
Thats an alien three script that never saw the light of day. Wouldn't take to much from it.
And for the zillionth time. I have no beef with the egging process, other than the fact that I don't think it takes precedence over what is evidenced in the film.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 10:32:23 PM
Facehugger=Egg=Queen=lots of money
With these type of films its nothing a little budget cut from the insane action cant handle. T3 blew its entire budget and Mostow actually said he had no more money left if he wanted to make additional character scenes. Too busy blowing buildings up.
a major complaint from people and fans alike was to little action...on top of that they didn't have the budget to do both, or the run time
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 10:36:26 PM
a major complaint from people and fans alike was to little action...
For avp? whoever says that is absolutely nuts imo. You cant follow that up. remember that thread about the fanbase i did lol
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 10:33:40 PM
Thats an alien three script that never saw the light of day. Wouldn't take to much from it.
well, the Vincent Ward script might have been the source of the impregnation by regugitation idea that the Strause brothers have decided to go with. I hope he or Fasano or whoever came up with the idea gets a credit for the new movie
well all i can say is at least think about how much money it'd cost while they have lots of other things they have to spend it on...if tihs movie can do good and get enough money for a Big Sequal Alien 5 and PRedator 3 chances rise and an AVP with a good budget. lets watch this one enjoy it and agruee but lets try and make it make money
Then I hope it does very well.
Unfortunately, the populace is now afraid of AVPs. There is an IMDB thread saying "Make this film at the bottom 100" and it has already been rated a few times.
Heres a comparison: people back in the day found Alien 3 boring. Nowadays theyre finding a crap like AVP with tons of aliens and predators to have too much story...
yeah ok ::)
In addition to my earlier post. There is one thing that is puzzling me. Why is it that when Scar got facehugged in AvP and subsequently died thereafter with thanks to the queens tail spearing him before her demise. Why did the Alien that was birthed from him in the final scene in AvP have the characteristics of the Predator (IE: its mandibles)?
We see now in AvP-R that Chet looks 70% alien and 30% predator...if this is the case why is it that in the 1st three Alien movies when the facehuggers did their part on the humans did they create a 'normal' looking alien. Why dont those aliens have human-like characteristics? Its only until we see the Queen interbreed with Ripley in Alien: Resurrection to create the human-like alien. Doesnt it seem strange that only due to the Queen having direct involvment in the splicing of DNA structurability with Ripley create the Human-Alien? Which brings me to my point. I think that Chet looks Predator is because the facehugger that attacked Scar was infact a queen-bearing embryo planting facehugger which contained the DNA of the Queen, heceforth creating Chet as a Queen Alien with Predator-like characteristics making it a Queen Predalien! If my theory is correct, then there is no need at all for the slow gestation that takes place when facehuggers attack and 'rape' humans. Perhaps im not making 100% sense in this post, but im just very curious as to how all of this cross-breading is capable from the Alien race.
Hey i think it had enough personally but i heard alot of people say that the creatures didn't fight enough. i love story, i was jsut stating what i heard
Quote from: kommander696 on Oct 28, 2007, 10:43:45 PM
In addition to my earlier post. There is one thing that is puzzling me. Why is it that when Scar got facehugged in AvP and subsequently died thereafter with thanks to the queens tail spearing him before her demise. Why did the Alien that was birthed from him in the final scene in AvP have the characteristics of the Predator (IE: its mandibles)?
We see now in AvP-R that Chet looks 70% alien and 30% predator...if this is the case why is it that in the 1st three Alien movies when the facehuggers did their part on the humans did they create a 'normal' looking alien. Why dont those aliens have human-like characteristics? Its only until we see the Queen interbreed with Ripley in Alien: Resurrection to create the human-like alien. Doesnt it seem strange that only due to the Queen having direct involvment in the splicing of DNA structurability with Ripley create the Human-Alien? Which brings me to my point. I think that Chet looks Predator is because the facehugger that attacked Scar was infact a queen-bearing embryo planting facehugger which contained the DNA of the Queen, heceforth creating Chet as a Queen Alien with Predator-like characteristics making it a Queen Predalien! If my theory is correct, then there is no need at all for the slow gestation that takes place when facehuggers attack and 'rape' humans. Perhaps im not making 100% sense in this post, but im just very curious as to how all of this cross-breading is capable from the Alien race.
Every Alien that comes out of a host is a hybrid of the base alien dna and whatever host it came out of. You saw the human characteristics in the the first two movies. The dog was quadruped, and the alien res aliens were back to humanish.
The predalien probably looks more predatorish to give the audience some way to identify it as the badass alien. Though they seemed to have went a little two extreme in the design.
Quote from: Alienseseses on Oct 28, 2007, 10:42:28 PM
Then I hope it does very well.
Unfortunately, the populace is now afraid of AVPs. There is an IMDB thread saying "Make this film at the bottom 100" and it has already been rated a few times.
Its becoming critic proof. Thats the last line of existence a film can have. Its rep will be bad, but some people will still go see it.
Anyone remember when Predator and Alien didnt have to use the easy mode for the BO?
Anyone like my theory?
So here we are at over 100 posts in this topic let's review shall we.
We have this lame vomiting idea thrown at us , which was not even due to budgetary restrictions or plot necessity but rather because the director's thought it would be "dark and evil". yeah good logic. lol
They claimed that they would maintain continuity and not break canon, yet what we get is not just one bitchslap to the fans who are famililar with the established alien lifecycle/reproductive cycle and lore but two. We get a predalien not born as a queen, molting into one.
Lets review how both are non-canon.
This doesn't make sense, since there never was an established phase in a young queen's lifecycle that allowed it to reproduce. Whoever said it could reproduce without reaching maturity? That doesn't make sense at all. It can't wait a whole 24-48 hrs to reach full maturity as a full grown queen and lay eggs? The last time I checked the aliens are anything but impatient, the eggs can wait there who knows how long before hosts show up and the queen is committed to perpetuating the species and is willing to inconvenience herself or survive at any cost and the length of time is no obstacle.
Also it breaks continuity since the alien in the first film was:
-a lone alien
-seperated from a hive
-with no queen
yet it did not try to vomit in anyone. Lambert was not vomited in by the way, all you noobs out there. She wasn't gurgling as if something was in her mouth, she was breathing heavily and screaming. Its possible she had a heart attack upon what the alien was doing wrapping its tail around her.
In alien 3. same thing. and you cannot argue that there was a queen on the way in ripley, because there was a period of time before the alien knew that and would have instictively assumed it was going to have to molt into a queen and reproduce via the vomiting in the meantime before it was fullgrown. yet it didn't.
Plus nothing in Aliens would lead someone to believe that the infestation started by a warrior alien molting into a queen or that she was running out seeking hosts at one point as opposed to hiding away in the sub-basement of the atmosphere processor while the other aliens did the host grabbing.
In alien resurrection, the queen's entire process from chestburster to full grown queen is witnessed and documented by the scientists aboard the auriga. If she had embryos in her, any internal scans would have revealed that and they would have been intrigued and possibly would have tried to sedate her and extract them for use in cloning or to let them grow into full grown aliens without the need of a host. Sure would save them the trouble of breaking the law and kidnapping live people.
The corruption of human dna from ripley is moot for this argument, since the initial stages all the way up to the regular egg laying phase were typical of any queen.
Also we have the fact that queens are born as chestbursters. No exception to this is seen in any alien film. This would not change even if the queen facehugger itself were regarded as non-canon, you would simply have a normal looking facehugger produce a queen embyro, possibly part of the end cycle of the queen's egg laying phase. She would lay the queen eggs to replace her or go to start new hives.
But molting into one, doesn't make any sense. Its scarcely believable that an alien warrior, although its behavior is mostly instinctual, would begin motling merely because it is seperated from a hive as opposed to trying to get back to it and protect the existing queen. But by the molting theory, you could purposefully isolate one and have it turn into a queen and repeat the process with more alien warriors until there were a ridiculous number of queens. lol
I highly doubt they need that much redundancy in their reproductive cycle. They already have other backups, that molting becomes beyond unecessary.
Here's my opinion on this new method:
First of all, this regurgitation method makes MUCH more sense, than the egg-morphing idea (which is also neat, but I don't think works for the Alien cycle).
To me, this regurgitation is just an alternative "face-hugger" and an interesting survival method. When the Queen is young and not ready to reproduce the masses of eggs through an egg-sac (and assuming there are no other Alien warriors around, at the time), the Queen will run around and quickly plant hosts with embryos that are probably in much more advanced stages, than face-hugger embryos, thus the embryos that are regurgitated will burst faster. The face-huggers have a slower process of "impregnating". but there will MORE of the face-huggers, when the eggs are layed, of course.
So, once the Queen has enough warriors to help construct a hive, she goes into hiding within the hive and matures, thus she becomes full-grown, produces an egg-sac and starts to produce the hundreds to thousands of eggs, which do the process at a slightly slower pace, but at a much grander scale.
Now, when the Queen is running around "regurgitating" the embryos, I think the process of the embryo being created inside of her will be faster than a facehugger, but the time in between the creation of the embryos will probably not be in a matter of minutes, but certainly not as long as human pregnancy, for example.
Ok, so again, the Queen quickly creates enough Alien warriors to protect her/create a hive for her to hide in and grow an egg sac. This is a survival tactic that makes sense. This method is far more quicker than a human being turned into an Alien egg, which in my opinion, conflicts the idea of a Queen anyway. The Queen is the ONLY one that should produce the eggs.
Now, this molting into a Queen idea...well, if there is no Queen, when there are Alien drones running around, you could argue that's when egg-morphing could occur, but let's not bring that into play for the cycle...to me, yes, Queens should be born through a chest-burster, (as we have seen in previous movies). In ALIENS, I assumed the Queen was born through a chestburster, which probably bursted out of Newt's father (sure, the chances are low, but there's a chance). I'm hoping that the PredAlien is just a Queen that is "maturing" (molting). I don't like the idea of an Alien warrior, suddenly becoming a Queen, just because there is no Queen present.
Hell, how would this apply to ants and bees? Is there ALWAYS a qeen bee or queen ant born in a hive?
I don't support the egg-morphing method. Remember that the idea was brought up, before Cameron thought of introducing a Queen to the cycle. So, the egg-morphing cycle should be thrown out the window. The method does not fit with the "Alien" characterstic, anyway. Maybe it would work for another type of creature, but certainly not the xenomorphs.
I think Queens should be born as chestbursters, just like the Alien drones/warriors. For an Alien warrior to change sex and start to develop into a Queen, because it can and wants to, does not make sense. Now, if this is something only a PredAlien could do, since it's a "freak", then MAYBE it would be ok. But a normal Alien drone/warrior....um, no.
its amazing how hypocritcal Alien fans can be
Before this ideas "Aliens aren't simple."
After "Keep it the way it is it is simple and it works"
Honestly i think my frustration is more with the overall style of this film, not just the regurgitation. After I've already sized the film up and just chilled in the General Movies forum, I think I was caught offguard by this one is all.
Add it to the pile. Its not like i wasnt clued in by the montage of head explosions that was their Red band trailer.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 10:55:44 PM
its amazing how hypocritcal Alien fans can be
Before this ideas "Aliens aren't simple."
After "Keep it the way it is it is simple and it works"
the way it was, wasn't simple, it had enough complexities. The aliens have a complex social structure, grab live hosts and cocoon them, will protect the queen but are resillient enough to survive on their own. They can adapt to any environment, the eggs can last for long periods of time in dormant hibernation. They have acid for blood, a strong exoskeleton. Nothing intimidates them, although fire comes close.
The queen lays eggs which contain facehuggers that early on form a symbiosis with the egg as if it is a living organism itself and upon sensing a potential host, chemically awakens the facehugger and lets it know its time to strike.
The aliens do not give off heat, do not require the same things humans do in order to survive in terms of food ..etc and can move with stunning agility and stealth. They are every bit as strong as they are ferocious and unpredictable. They kill in one instance but will choose hosts in another.
Yeah that's real simple. ::)
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 10:47:20 PM
Quote from: kommander696 on Oct 28, 2007, 10:43:45 PM
In addition to my earlier post. There is one thing that is puzzling me. Why is it that when Scar got facehugged in AvP and subsequently died thereafter with thanks to the queens tail spearing him before her demise. Why did the Alien that was birthed from him in the final scene in AvP have the characteristics of the Predator (IE: its mandibles)?
We see now in AvP-R that Chet looks 70% alien and 30% predator...if this is the case why is it that in the 1st three Alien movies when the facehuggers did their part on the humans did they create a 'normal' looking alien. Why dont those aliens have human-like characteristics? Its only until we see the Queen interbreed with Ripley in Alien: Resurrection to create the human-like alien. Doesnt it seem strange that only due to the Queen having direct involvment in the splicing of DNA structurability with Ripley create the Human-Alien? Which brings me to my point. I think that Chet looks Predator is because the facehugger that attacked Scar was infact a queen-bearing embryo planting facehugger which contained the DNA of the Queen, heceforth creating Chet as a Queen Alien with Predator-like characteristics making it a Queen Predalien! If my theory is correct, then there is no need at all for the slow gestation that takes place when facehuggers attack and 'rape' humans. Perhaps im not making 100% sense in this post, but im just very curious as to how all of this cross-breading is capable from the Alien race.
Every Alien that comes out of a host is a hybrid of the base alien dna and whatever host it came out of. You saw the human characteristics in the the first two movies. The dog was quadruped, and the alien res aliens were back to humanish.
The predalien probably looks more predatorish to give the audience some way to identify it as the badass alien. Though they seemed to have went a little two extreme in the design.
So with what your saying is that the Aliens were created as Human-Like from the 1st movie? Is this because the facehugger planted itself onto the guy (can't remember his name) that found the eggs in the stasis chamber onboard the Space Jockey Ship. If this is the case, then what REALLY do the ALIENS look like! What is their 1st design????????
i'm talking about the reproduction which is simple and has been the same for years, adding something that doesn't destroy what is in palce shouldn't be so neggative
I love it! A little somethin new, and grotesque, and it would seem a very logical way to go without the presence of a queen in the movie. It leads me to speculate though, would this form of reproduction be what the alien in "Alien" performed on Brett, and Dallas off screen? Anyway, the predalien regurgitating in the potential hosts mouth gets my vote for disgustingly, and disturbingly awesome! I just hope the warrior alien's stick to their origianl script as headbiters, and gatherer's. And the predalien looks f**ckin great!
Quote from: Wolf Sazen on Oct 28, 2007, 11:07:38 PM
I love it! A little somethin new, and grotesque...the predalien regurgitating in the potential hosts mouth gets my vote for disgustingly, and disturbingly awesome!
::)
The future, ladies and gentlemen.
Quote from: Wolf Sazen on Oct 28, 2007, 11:07:38 PM
I love it! A little somethin new, and grotesque, and it would seem a very logical way to go without the presence of a queen in the movie. It leads me to speculate though, would this form of reproduction be what the alien in "Alien" performed on Brett, and Dallas off screen? Anyway, the predalien regurgitating in the potential hosts mouth gets my vote for disgustingly, and disturbingly awesome! I just hope the warrior alien's stick to their origianl script as headbiters, and gatherer's. And the predalien looks f**ckin great!
I agree and second this 100% mate!
Quote from: kommander696 on Oct 28, 2007, 11:05:08 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 10:47:20 PM
Quote from: kommander696 on Oct 28, 2007, 10:43:45 PM
In addition to my earlier post. There is one thing that is puzzling me. Why is it that when Scar got facehugged in AvP and subsequently died thereafter with thanks to the queens tail spearing him before her demise. Why did the Alien that was birthed from him in the final scene in AvP have the characteristics of the Predator (IE: its mandibles)?
We see now in AvP-R that Chet looks 70% alien and 30% predator...if this is the case why is it that in the 1st three Alien movies when the facehuggers did their part on the humans did they create a 'normal' looking alien. Why dont those aliens have human-like characteristics? Its only until we see the Queen interbreed with Ripley in Alien: Resurrection to create the human-like alien. Doesnt it seem strange that only due to the Queen having direct involvment in the splicing of DNA structurability with Ripley create the Human-Alien? Which brings me to my point. I think that Chet looks Predator is because the facehugger that attacked Scar was infact a queen-bearing embryo planting facehugger which contained the DNA of the Queen, heceforth creating Chet as a Queen Alien with Predator-like characteristics making it a Queen Predalien! If my theory is correct, then there is no need at all for the slow gestation that takes place when facehuggers attack and 'rape' humans. Perhaps im not making 100% sense in this post, but im just very curious as to how all of this cross-breading is capable from the Alien race.
Every Alien that comes out of a host is a hybrid of the base alien dna and whatever host it came out of. You saw the human characteristics in the the first two movies. The dog was quadruped, and the alien res aliens were back to humanish.
The predalien probably looks more predatorish to give the audience some way to identify it as the badass alien. Though they seemed to have went a little two extreme in the design.
So with what your saying is that the Aliens were created as Human-Like from the 1st movie? Is this because the facehugger planted itself onto the guy (can't remember his name) that found the eggs in the stasis chamber onboard the Space Jockey Ship. If this is the case, then what REALLY do the ALIENS look like! What is their 1st design????????
Well, there basic features would remain constant, you know inner jaw, acid for blood, the tubing..etc. But the host determines relative size, whether its bidpedal or quadripedal as well as additional features that help it to adapt to its environment.(if the host uses those traits, its assumed that it is in the environment of the host, therefore it will be beneficial to the alien as well, regardless if it merely bursts out of a creature that is currently not in its natural envrionment, hence the predalien receiving the mandibles..etc.
Facehuggers and the eggs are pure with not host dna. The queen would have the crown and little arms and big tail, but its facial structure and teeth and relative size would vary depending upon the host.
The aliens are adaptable as f**k. The original form would only exist provided they evolved on a homeworld and only there would you find the intended hosts it adapted to impregnate etc.
If they are a creation of the spacejockeys, then perhaps they are a genetic chimera of species, with the deadliest traits taken and never had a regular form independent of its host.
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 28, 2007, 11:11:17 PM
Quote from: Wolf Sazen on Oct 28, 2007, 11:07:38 PM
Anyway, the predalien regurgitating in the potential hosts mouth gets my vote for disgustingly, and disturbingly awesome!
::)
The future, ladies and gentlemen.
yeah that's just sad. There are people who would still say it was awesome if the predalien whipped out a huge exo-skeletal dick and had it extend from its crotch in the same manner as the inner jaw, dripping with slime and then literally raped its victims.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 11:03:31 PM
The aliens have a complex social structure, grab live hosts and cocoon them, will protect the queen but are resillient enough to survive on their own. They can adapt to any environment, the eggs can last for long periods of time in dormant hibernation. They have acid for blood, a strong exoskeleton. Nothing intimidates them, although fire comes close.
The queen lays eggs which contain facehuggers that early on form a symbiosis with the egg as if it is a living organism itself and upon sensing a potential host, chemically awakens the facehugger and lets it know its time to strike.
The aliens do not give off heat, do not require the same things humans do in order to survive in terms of food ..etc and can move with stunning agility and stealth. They are every bit as strong as they are ferocious and unpredictable. They kill in one instance but will choose hosts in another.
Yeah that's real simple. ::)
You forgot the lame pale alien from 4 and its hybrid Queen mother. All possible now.
Seems to me any more and alien will become a giant "big gross idea" receptacle. I think in 20 years well all be laughing at how long and arbitrary the list is at this rate.
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Oct 28, 2007, 07:07:16 PM
So, in 350 years time, with scanning technology already available and perfected in Alien WITHOUT any 'hands-on' scientist interference, they could not scan the Queen and learn her morphology eyes-only, and learn her reproductory organs were different from one cycle to the other...?
How did they know she was ready to lay eggs in a 'couple of days, maybe less' then...?
See this is what I'm talking about...you present this undeniable
FACT...and the D.O.R.s bypass it completely, and spew some other rhetoric...it's pathetic on their part...
Furthermore, I don't understand how anyone, with the logic of a 9 year old or better, believes that this new vomit nonsense doesn't break canon; with this information staring them blankly in the face...it's just pathetically sad... :-X
But whatever, to each his own...if people choose to be sheep...so be it...
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 28, 2007, 11:17:14 PM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 11:03:31 PM
The aliens have a complex social structure, grab live hosts and cocoon them, will protect the queen but are resillient enough to survive on their own. They can adapt to any environment, the eggs can last for long periods of time in dormant hibernation. They have acid for blood, a strong exoskeleton. Nothing intimidates them, although fire comes close.
The queen lays eggs which contain facehuggers that early on form a symbiosis with the egg as if it is a living organism itself and upon sensing a potential host, chemically awakens the facehugger and lets it know its time to strike.
The aliens do not give off heat, do not require the same things humans do in order to survive in terms of food ..etc and can move with stunning agility and stealth. They are every bit as strong as they are ferocious and unpredictable. They kill in one instance but will choose hosts in another.
Yeah that's real simple. ::)
Seems to me any more and alien will become a giant "big gross idea" receptacle. I think in 20 years well all be laughing at how long and arbitrary the list is at this rate.
lol. i know. i even forgot to mention the dna reflex.
So with what your saying is that the Aliens were created as Human-Like from the 1st movie? Is this because the facehugger planted itself onto the guy (can't remember his name) that found the eggs in the stasis chamber onboard the Space Jockey Ship. If this is the case, then what REALLY do the ALIENS look like! What is their 1st design????????
[/quote]
Well, there basic features would remain constant, you know inner jaw, acid for blood, the tubing..etc. But the host determines relative size, whether its bidpedal or quadripedal as well as additional features that help it to adapt to its environment.(if the host uses those traits, its assumed that it is in the environment of the host, therefore it will be beneficial to the alien as well, regardless if it merely bursts out of a creature that is currently not in its natural envrionment, hence the predalien receiving the mandibles..etc.
Facehuggers and the eggs are pure with not host dna. The queen would have the crown and little arms and big tail, but its facial structure and teeth and relative size would vary depending upon the host.
The aliens are adaptable as f**k. The original form would only exist provided they evolved on a homeworld and only there would you find the intended hosts it adapted to impregnate etc.
If they are a creation of the spacejockeys, then perhaps they are a genetic chimera of species, with the most deadliest traits taken and never had a regular form independent of its host.
[/quote]
So then - is it possible that the Space Jockeys are the creators of the alien race? you also mention that the host determines relative size, whether its bidpedal or quadripedal as well as additional features...............
What would happen if (and only IF) a facehugger was to attack a creature such as the large centipede which has hundreds of legs. It has been documented that some species of centipede grow to larger than normal proportions. Lets just say that it happened.....what do you think the result would be of the Alien?
Quote from: Gates on Oct 28, 2007, 11:18:03 PM
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Oct 28, 2007, 07:07:16 PM
So, in 350 years time, with scanning technology already available and perfected in Alien WITHOUT any 'hands-on' scientist interference, they could not scan the Queen and learn her morphology eyes-only, and learn her reproductory organs were different from one cycle to the other...?
How did they know she was ready to lay eggs in a 'couple of days, maybe less' then...?
See this is what I'm talking about...you present this undeniable FACT...and the D.O.R.s bypass it completely, and spew some other rhetoric...it's pathetic on their part...
Furthermore, I don't understand how anyone, with the logic of a 9 year old or better, believes that this new vomit nonsense doesn't break canon; with this information staring them blankly in the face...it's just pathetically sad... :-X
But whatever, to each his own...if people choose to be sheep...so be it...
well, i guess when your a 14 yr old loser you don't know that this kind of thing contadicts the other stuff already established in terms of the alien lore, because you don't know about the other stuff. (not you personally, im using it in a different sense. lol, to the collective 14 yr old idiots here.)
If you don't like the idea and want to do something about it...stay home don't go to the movie and don't buy it when it comes out hurt their sells
The basics of it all goes back to the first Alien movie, which is why the die hards can't grasp it.
Scott made a classic and they've been living off the back off that one ever since, such as classic's do.
If the idea's had been switched and this idea had been in the Alien movie, and it was the brothers that were introducing Egg morphing, you can bet your ass there would be the same outcome, people would be saying "Egg morphing? thats just F*ckin retarded" like they are doing now with this idea.
Aliens is and will always be a classic, nothing changes, so its best to accept this new theory and enjoy the popcorn , or not accept it and not watch it.
I really think bringing in Biology lessons and minor details from other films is going overboard. Fox or the writers dont have that level of thought pattern, like a die hard fan.
The strangest part is, people who have slated Alien Res for the last 10 years, are now using it as a back up of how things "should be".
Once its printed on film, you can have all the theory's in the world, they wont matter.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 11:18:40 PM
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 28, 2007, 11:17:14 PM
Seems to me any more and alien will become a giant "big gross idea" receptacle. I think in 20 years well all be laughing at how long and arbitrary the list is at this rate.
lol. i know. i even forgot to mention the dna reflex.
Itll be like that Chuck Norris joke site lmao
Since everybody arguing against this not being canon is completely dodging my point, allow me to say it once more, with feeling.
Super facehuggers: Allows one drone and one queen embryo to have separate hosts. Queen is fully developed at birth due to being a queen embryo. Can be hatched as last resort by the queen (I.E the Sulaco). I guess it can be hatched without an egg sac. Ask Fincher. ;D
Molting: Gradual process of the development of a dominant Xenomorph molting to a queen. Includes xenomorph finding ways of making new aliens before fully developing to a queen.
What about egg morphing seen in the special cut of Alien? Egg morphing was deleted for the 1979 theatrical release of Alien, and Ridley considers that the true and best version. This is coming from the director of Alien. Yeah.
Why didn't the queen regurgitate to create drones in A:R, and why didn't they know it could? It was a fully developed queen. Born from a true bred queen by coming out of Ripley 8's chest, it was born to begin the egg creating process because of the life development stage at birth. In recorded encounters with xenomorphs, this process of a drone becoming a queen was never found out because of the conditions in which they were established in. If in Aliens a drone did become a queen, the colonists weren't alive to tell them, and didn't know what the hell was killing them anyway. So therefor, the scientists in A:R didn't know all of the xenomorphs reproductive methods, because they didn't witness it, and didn't have a xenomorph trying to become a queen.
Why did aliens try to kill Scar even though he had an embryo? Paul W.S Anderson. ::)
I doubt any alien would kill a person with an embryo inside them, let alone a predalien embryo. Simply put, AvP doesn't make a lot of sense. A stretch would say perhaps they couldn't detect it because of its fusion of alien and predator DNA.
If the super face hugger can be created by queens, whats the point of drones becoming queens and them using regurgitation? Now, hear me out on this one. A3's Assembly Cut is an amazing movie. But both cuts have one of the biggest series plot holes in movie history: A queen hatching an egg, without a sac, in an area she never went to, and on a ship orbiting the planet she had reproductive means on. Plain cut, non opinionated answer. Seriously. This idea was created for the single purpose to somehow have a third alien with the same lead character. If the setup was fine and it was understood how the egg got there, sure, but no reasons or explanations are to be found. Why should we let one movie's mistake shape the evolution and new ideas of the series? It shouldn't.
I think thats everything. It's perfectly cool to have your opinion on if you like the idea or not, but I hope I was able to explain or show that this idea of aliens morphing and molting to queen status is completely not contradicting the canon of the series. Thank you for reading, and I can't wait to be flamed. ;)
Good night!
Quote from: kommander696 on Oct 28, 2007, 11:20:57 PM
So with what your saying is that the Aliens were created as Human-Like from the 1st movie? Is this because the facehugger planted itself onto the guy (can't remember his name) that found the eggs in the stasis chamber onboard the Space Jockey Ship. If this is the case, then what REALLY do the ALIENS look like! What is their 1st design????????
Well, there basic features would remain constant, you know inner jaw, acid for blood, the tubing..etc. But the host determines relative size, whether its bidpedal or quadripedal as well as additional features that help it to adapt to its environment.(if the host uses those traits, its assumed that it is in the environment of the host, therefore it will be beneficial to the alien as well, regardless if it merely bursts out of a creature that is currently not in its natural envrionment, hence the predalien receiving the mandibles..etc.
Facehuggers and the eggs are pure with not host dna. The queen would have the crown and little arms and big tail, but its facial structure and teeth and relative size would vary depending upon the host.
The aliens are adaptable as f**k. The original form would only exist provided they evolved on a homeworld and only there would you find the intended hosts it adapted to impregnate etc.
If they are a creation of the spacejockeys, then perhaps they are a genetic chimera of species, with the most deadliest traits taken and never had a regular form independent of its host.
[/quote]
So then - is it possible that the Space Jockeys are the creators of the alien race? you also mention that the host determines relative size, whether its bidpedal or quadripedal as well as additional features...............
What would happen if (and only IF) a facehugger was to attack a creature such as the large centipede which has hundreds of legs. It has been documented that some species of centipede grow to larger than normal proportions. Lets just say that it happened.....what do you think the result would be of the Alien?
[/quote]
it would have to be a damn humongous centipede and im not sure if its internal structure allows for impregnation, but if it does, you'd have an alien with possibly centipede pincers and maybe lots of little legs but it would still have an inner jaw..etc. and a tail, well at least the body would culminate in a discernable tail from the already slender body. But the head and shoulder proportions would not be that far off from a regular alien. Its not like it would have this long, centipede body so far from the head.
Quote from: kommander696 on Oct 28, 2007, 11:05:08 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 28, 2007, 10:47:20 PM
Quote from: kommander696 on Oct 28, 2007, 10:43:45 PM
In addition to my earlier post. There is one thing that is puzzling me. Why is it that when Scar got facehugged in AvP and subsequently died thereafter with thanks to the queens tail spearing him before her demise. Why did the Alien that was birthed from him in the final scene in AvP have the characteristics of the Predator (IE: its mandibles)?
We see now in AvP-R that Chet looks 70% alien and 30% predator...if this is the case why is it that in the 1st three Alien movies when the facehuggers did their part on the humans did they create a 'normal' looking alien. Why dont those aliens have human-like characteristics? Its only until we see the Queen interbreed with Ripley in Alien: Resurrection to create the human-like alien. Doesnt it seem strange that only due to the Queen having direct involvment in the splicing of DNA structurability with Ripley create the Human-Alien? Which brings me to my point. I think that Chet looks Predator is because the facehugger that attacked Scar was infact a queen-bearing embryo planting facehugger which contained the DNA of the Queen, heceforth creating Chet as a Queen Alien with Predator-like characteristics making it a Queen Predalien! If my theory is correct, then there is no need at all for the slow gestation that takes place when facehuggers attack and 'rape' humans. Perhaps im not making 100% sense in this post, but im just very curious as to how all of this cross-breading is capable from the Alien race.
Every Alien that comes out of a host is a hybrid of the base alien dna and whatever host it came out of. You saw the human characteristics in the the first two movies. The dog was quadruped, and the alien res aliens were back to humanish.
The predalien probably looks more predatorish to give the audience some way to identify it as the badass alien. Though they seemed to have went a little two extreme in the design.
What is their 1st design????????
Nobody knows.
Gates u disapoint me...no long speech on y u hate it and having a good reason...saying it breaks cannon...that's it...and if u look at points i've made and points above...it doesn't break it
You mean I posted that huge post and you didn't even read it Major alan Schaefer? :D
I did my best to explain it... If I missed anything tell me ;)
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 11:28:50 PM
Gates u disapoint me...no long speech on y u hate it and having a good reason...saying it breaks cannon...that's it...and if u look at points i've made and points above...it doesn't break it
well to break "cannon" as opposed to "canon" you'd have to find a museum with an old revolutionary war cannon and smash it. lol
on a side note, I can't look at those pics of arnold without thinking "get to da choppa!" or "kill me now, im here, come on!". lol
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 11:33:10 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 11:28:50 PM
Gates u disapoint me...no long speech on y u hate it and having a good reason...saying it breaks canon...that's it...and if u look at points i've made and points above...it doesn't break it
well to break "cannon" as opposed to "canon" you'd have to find a museum with an old revolutionary war cannon and smash it. lol
Haha avoid the point...
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 11:33:53 PM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 11:33:10 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 11:28:50 PM
Gates u disapoint me...no long speech on y u hate it and having a good reason...saying it breaks canon...that's it...and if u look at points i've made and points above...it doesn't break it
well to break "cannon" as opposed to "canon" you'd have to find a museum with an old revolutionary war cannon and smash it. lol
Haha avoid the point...
but seriously, i thought i've laid out my case fairly well that this vomiting idea not just sucks, but indeed is not canonical and consistent with what happens in the other films.
Gates, I think what Major Alan Dutch is saying is...
"You lack discipline!" :D
I think the one thing that needs to be realized is the predailen is a hybrid and even if someof you think that it goes away from the "real" reproduction cycle, the predalien may have a different way of reproducing. The drone ALIEN in ALIEN had a different way of reproducing. I only wish they would of explored this earlier. DBK
consitant...maybe not but it doesn't break canon
Quote from: Otnip on Oct 28, 2007, 11:37:38 PM
Gates, I think what Major Alan Dutch is saying is...
"You lack discipline!" :D
or "the cia got you pushing too many pencils?" in arnie's voice.
Quote from: Otnip on Oct 28, 2007, 11:37:38 PM
Gates, I think what Major Alan Dutch is saying is...
"You lack discipline!" :D
more like...I'm right your wrong nana booboo
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 11:39:01 PM
Quote from: Otnip on Oct 28, 2007, 11:37:38 PM
Gates, I think what Major Alan Dutch is saying is...
"You lack discipline!" :D
more like...I'm right your wrong nana booboo
Haha
So did you check out my post on 106 about why its canon? I just want to make sure that hour of work isn't missed because of my post count :(
i saw it...mostly stuff i've said minus the magic egg of Alien 3
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 11:45:25 PM
i saw it...mostly stuff i've said minus the magic egg of Alien 3
that egg was unexplained which was ridiculous. But had it been attempted to have been explained via some arbitary and far reaching idea, it would be worse. The vomiting idea is just that, worse.
At least the rape (come on call it that give it a little respect) idea isen't magical
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 11:49:42 PM
At least the rape (come on call it that give it a little respect) idea isen't magical
yeah its pretty much illogical and unreasonable. You can't just say, the aliens are mysterious and can then magically do anything they want, because we didn't know they could do that. lol
Next they will have a stage of their lifecycle where they sprout wings and fly off to start a new hive somewhere else. lol
DON'T GIVE THEM IDEAS!!!!! ;D
its logical because other animals do it....and its quicker if you don't have time to mature, make an eggsac, or no where safe enough for hive
Quote from: Otnip on Oct 28, 2007, 11:25:39 PM
Why didn't the queen regurgitate to create drones in A:R, and why didn't they know it could? It was a fully developed queen. Born from a true bred queen by coming out of Ripley 8's chest, it was born to begin the egg creating process because of the life development stage at birth. In recorded encounters with xenomorphs, this process of a drone becoming a queen was never found out because of the conditions in which they were established in. If in Aliens a drone did become a queen, the colonists weren't alive to tell them, and didn't know what the hell was killing them anyway. So therefor, the scientists in A:R didn't know all of the xenomorphs reproductive methods, because they didn't witness it, and didn't have a xenomorph trying to become a queen.
ANDQuote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 11:28:50 PM
Gates u disapoint me...no long speech on y u hate it and having a good reason...saying it breaks cannon...that's it...and if u look at points i've made and points above...it doesn't break it
Sometimes I really wonder if some of you are really slow or acting... ;)
Are any of you familiar with Occam's Razor? Judging from your supposed analysis, I would say no...Google it...
Occam's Razor state's that the simplest explanation for any given phenomenon is usually the correct one...the explanation I quoted from YutaniDitch is clearly the most simple...therefore I will stand by my previous statement of breaking canon...
Quote from: Gates on Oct 28, 2007, 11:54:49 PM
Quote from: Otnip on Oct 28, 2007, 11:25:39 PM
Why didn't the queen regurgitate to create drones in A:R, and why didn't they know it could? It was a fully developed queen. Born from a true bred queen by coming out of Ripley 8's chest, it was born to begin the egg creating process because of the life development stage at birth. In recorded encounters with xenomorphs, this process of a drone becoming a queen was never found out because of the conditions in which they were established in. If in Aliens a drone did become a queen, the colonists weren't alive to tell them, and didn't know what the hell was killing them anyway. So therefor, the scientists in A:R didn't know all of the xenomorphs reproductive methods, because they didn't witness it, and didn't have a xenomorph trying to become a queen.
AND
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 11:28:50 PM
Gates u disapoint me...no long speech on y u hate it and having a good reason...saying it breaks cannon...that's it...and if u look at points i've made and points above...it doesn't break it
Sometimes I really wonder if some of you are really slow or acting... ;)
Are any of you familiar with Occam's Razor? Judging from your supposed analysis, I would say no...Google it...
Occam's Razor state's that the simplest explanation for any given phenomenon is usually the correct one...the explanation I quoted from YutaniDitch is clearly the most simple...therefore I will stand by my previous statement of breaking canon...
Okay then, allow me to simplify my explanation of the point you refuse to accept.
It was a true bred queen and they didn't know that cycle because it wasn't recorded.
Happy?
Gates, I truly don't get you. Not everything is as simple as being ignorant.
So Gates...you want Aliens simple? the idea doesn't break canon because nothing said they can't do it and we've never seen a sitation that'd they need to or have enough time...
A1: for one the ship is to small for a Queen...that fact aside, i doubt the molting is a split second thing (which if it was would make me angry) time, less than twenty four ours being alive, not enough hosts to do anything.
A3: Queen on the way don't need to molt.
And i'm surprised that Alien fans of all people would say "Because we haven't seen it...it can't happen." that isn't a good way to think about anything
and for extra measure.... Y didn't they see it in AR?
i thoguht a couple reason...The Queen saw no need to use it so used the egg sac, AR docs weren't smart enough or didn't know what to look for. and third reason maybe it only works for Aliens molting into Queens...
ok i'll pause and wait for you to skim over this and just call me stupid...
i doubt the queen in AR did this, cuz if im not mistaken it grew up in a caged environment right? it probably didnt hav any hosts around since the scientist probably figured it coulnt reproduce without eggs, so they waited for it to start producing eggs befor making hosts avalible, and by then, the queen would hav been out of the barfing phase.
Quote from: Otnip on Oct 29, 2007, 12:00:49 AM
Okay then, allow me to simplify my explanation of the point you refuse to accept.
It was a true bred queen and they didn't know that cycle because it wasn't recorded.
Happy? Sometimes I think you're slow or just acting.
Nope...no good...you simplified the
wording not the
theory...your's still has too many variables involved to truly be the most simple...
Good try though...better luck next time... ::)
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 12:04:16 AM
So Gates...you want Aliens simple?
That's not what I said...but whatever floats your boat...
QuoteAnd i'm surprised that Alien fans of all people would say "Because we haven't seen it...it can't happen." that isn't a good way to think about anything
Again...putting word's in my mouth...way to validate your argument... ::)
Quoteand for extra measure.... Y didn't they see it in AR?
i thoguht a couple reason...The Queen saw no need to use it so used the egg sac, AR docs weren't smart enough or didn't know what to look for. and third reason maybe it only works for Aliens molting into Queens...
Otnip...above are the variables I am speaking of and there's more...
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 29, 2007, 12:07:48 AM
i doubt the queen in AR did this, cuz if im not mistaken it grew up in a caged environment right? it probably didnt hav any hosts around since the scientist probably figured it coulnt reproduce without eggs, so they waited for it to start producing eggs befor making hosts avalible, and by then, the queen would hav been out of the barfing phase.
gates, shot down my theory now :D
Gates i said "Alien fans" not you stop skimming start reading...
molting makes them more complex,
no to be honest not the most amazing thing i've ever seen the mouth rape idea...but its rarely used anywhere and can work great...if you give it a chance...me i haven't desided yet i'm not condeeming it or embrashing jsut stateing how it can work
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 26, 2007, 06:47:49 PM
This is so unnacceptable. Even if it is the new bullshit way of saying "this is how the aliens have always egg morphed people, it just wasn't shown onscreen." ::).
I don't buy the "she's a mutant, so its okay" bullshit. Personally I would have rather had the crashed spaceship contain more facehuggers in stasis or a shitload of eggs about 30 or so. That plus the predalien would still have been enough aliens to make the movie interesting and for them to wreak havoc in the town. One alien has been known to kill dozens of people in the other films, so it would have been plausible that 30 plus a predalien could have overrun a town.
Lazy ass fox, couldn't shell out money to have ADI do all the eggs required. How can you have an alien film without eggs? So if this is the case, how can this be related to egg morphing? They need to have worked on the eggs that the people are morphed into, wouldn't that take the same amount of time and effort as sculpting the eggs not related to it?
Or maybe they made one and are going to use it over and over, so you'll only see one egg morphed victim onscreen at a time, which is also lame, since it would have more of an impact to see cocooned victims who are now eggs, lining the hive walls en masse.
Anyone who thinks that its a predator trait received by the dna reflex should just play in traffic. lol
That is retarded. Obviously i'd assume predators reproduce sexually, they are humanoid after all and even if not mammals, they have some mammalian traits.
I'm thinking the Predator would be more reptilian.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 12:14:28 AM
Gates i said "Alien fans" not you stop skimming start reading...
molting makes them more complex,
no to be honest not the most amazing thing i've ever seen the mouth rape idea...but its rarely used anywhere and can work great...if you give it a chance...me i haven't desided yet i'm not condeeming it or embrashing jsut stateing how it can work
even if it looks cool and i doubt taht due to the overally grotesque idea of the slime/goo and the rampant sexual overtones, even more so than just what the facehugger does, it still won't work too well in providing any logical reason for why it should be happening.
logical reason? i got one...Chet can't put an egg sac and sit lay eggs durring WW3
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 12:18:38 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 12:14:28 AM
Gates i said "Alien fans" not you stop skimming start reading...
molting makes them more complex,
no to be honest not the most amazing thing i've ever seen the mouth rape idea...but its rarely used anywhere and can work great...if you give it a chance...me i haven't desided yet i'm not condeeming it or embrashing jsut stateing how it can work
even if it looks cool and i doubt taht due to the overally grotesque idea of the slime/goo and the rampant sexual overtones, even more so than just what the facehugger does, it still won't work too well in providing any logical reason for why it should be happening.
how bout so the queen can reproduce quickly so she has drones 2 protect her while she gets settled and to dispers the eggs when shes layd them?(or bring hosts 2 the eggs)
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 12:19:58 AM
logical reason? i got one...Chet can't put an egg sac and sit lay eggs durring WW3
are you arguing that it still would be doing the vomiting even at the point where it could start growing the egg sac?
Gates, not everything is that simple. Racism, politics, prejudice...
"All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the right one."
Tends is the key word here.
I'm not going to argue with you all night, so please, if you think simple = right, state your simple theory on the matter and why this does not follow canon. I've been skimming through this thread, and I must have missed it.
Remember, a mind is like a parachute. If its not open, it doesn't work. (Frank Zappa quote, not me :) )
no...just right now that's a logical reason and its to young to if its molting is what Colin said and a quote from another site
This new reproductive system is used when the queen is very young and cannot create an egg sack, it will create a few bodyguard drones while it grows up.
Quote from: Otnip on Oct 29, 2007, 12:23:05 AM
Gates, not everything is that simple. Racism, politics, prejudice...
"All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the right one."
Tends is the key word here.
I'm not going to argue with you all night, so please, if you think simple = right, state your simple theory on the matter and why this does not follow canon. I've been skimming through this thread, and I must have missed it.
Remember, a mind is like a parachute. If its not open, it doesn't work. (Frank Zappa quote, not me :) )
i think he only means simple as it relates to occam razor. In that case he is being logically sound and reasonable.
Once again, here is my explaination for this regurgitation method:
---------------------------------------------------------
To me, this regurgitation is just an alternative "face-hugger" and an interesting survival method. When the Queen is young and not ready to reproduce the masses of eggs through an egg-sac (and assuming there are no other Alien warriors around, at the time), the Queen will run around and quickly plant hosts with embryos that are probably in much more advanced stages, than face-hugger embryos, thus the embryos that are regurgitated will burst faster. The face-huggers have a slower process of "impregnating". but there will MORE of the face-huggers, when the eggs are layed, of course.
So, once the Queen has enough warriors to help construct a hive, she goes into hiding within the hive and matures, thus she becomes full-grown, produces an egg-sac and starts to produce the hundreds to thousands of eggs, which do the process at a slightly slower pace, but at a much grander scale.
Now, when the Queen is running around "regurgitating" the embryos, I think the process of the embryo being created inside of her will be faster than a facehugger, but the time in between the creation of the embryos will probably not be in a matter of minutes, but certainly not as long as human pregnancy, for example.
----------------------------------------
I also want to add that I don't think the PredAlien "vomits" (not like the Excorsist), but mainly passes the embryo (maybe, just like the face-hugger, or the chestburster might be more developed and we see the burster body go from one mouth to another).
Speaking of which, anyone recall the Alien 3 comic series, which showed the Queen chestburster climb out of Newt's mouth and climb into Ripley's mouth, after the crash?
On a related subject, there was a movie, which had these alien creatures control humans, by crawling down the human mouths...I can't remember the name of it. I think there was a sequel made. Anyone know what movies I'm talking about? The creatures could go from one host to another, by crawling out of the hosts mouths and go into another human mouth. The creatures were kind of like slugs, if I remember correctly.
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Oct 29, 2007, 12:34:56 AM
On a related subject, there was a movie, which had these alien creatures control humans, by crawling down the human mouths...I can't remember the name of it. I think there was a sequel made. Anyone know what movies I'm talking about? The creatures could go from one host to another, by crawling out of the hosts mouths and go into another human mouth. The creatures were kind of like slugs, if I remember correctly.
HELL NO
Night of the freaking creeps should NOT be compared to AVP LOL
Think it was called-"The Arrival"?
First part of the arguement Space Disc Jokey...good work
How many crap movies stole this idea then? lol
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Oct 29, 2007, 12:34:56 AM
Once again, here is my explaination for this regurgitation method:
---------------------------------------------------------
To me, this regurgitation is just an alternative "face-hugger" and an interesting survival method. When the Queen is young and not ready to reproduce the masses of eggs through an egg-sac (and assuming there are no other Alien warriors around, at the time), the Queen will run around and quickly plant hosts with embryos that are probably in much more advanced stages, than face-hugger embryos, thus the embryos that are regurgitated will burst faster. The face-huggers have a slower process of "impregnating". but there will MORE of the face-huggers, when the eggs are layed, of course.
So, once the Queen has enough warriors to help construct a hive, she goes into hiding within the hive and matures, thus she becomes full-grown, produces an egg-sac and starts to produce the hundreds to thousands of eggs, which do the process at a slightly slower pace, but at a much grander scale.
Now, when the Queen is running around "regurgitating" the embryos, I think the process of the embryo being created inside of her will be faster than a facehugger, but the time in between the creation of the embryos will probably not be in a matter of minutes, but certainly not as long as human pregnancy, for example.
----------------------------------------
I also want to add that I don't think the PredAlien "vomits" (not like the Excorsist), but mainly passes the embryo (maybe, just like the face-hugger, or the chestburster might be more developed and we see the burster body go from one mouth to another).
Speaking of which, anyone recall the Alien 3 comic series, which showed the Queen chestburster swim out of Newt's mouth and climb into Ripley's mouth, after the crash?
On a related subject, there was a movie, which had these alien creatures control humans, by crawling down the human mouths...I can't remember the name of it. I think there was a sequel made. Anyone know what movies I'm talking about? The creatures could go from one host to another, by crawling out of the hosts mouths and go into another human mouth. The creatures were kind of like slugs, if I remember correctly.
body snatchers? awful film. if that's what your referring to. or was it the more recent "dream catchers" with their "shit weasels".
I think he refers to the Hidden.
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 29, 2007, 12:39:10 AM
How many crap movies stole this idea then? lol
well, a quote i love is..."Every horror movie since Alien has stollen somethig from it"
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 12:25:02 AM
Quote from: Otnip on Oct 29, 2007, 12:23:05 AM
Gates, not everything is that simple. Racism, politics, prejudice...
"All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the right one."
Tends is the key word here.
I'm not going to argue with you all night, so please, if you think simple = right, state your simple theory on the matter and why this does not follow canon. I've been skimming through this thread, and I must have missed it.
Remember, a mind is like a parachute. If its not open, it doesn't work. (Frank Zappa quote, not me :) )
i think he only means simple as it relates to occam razor. In that case he is being logically sound and reasonable.
"Occam's razor (sometimes spelled Ockham's razor) is a principle attributed to the 14th-century English logician and Franciscan friar William of Ockham. The principle states that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory. The principle is often expressed in Latin as the lex parsimoniae ("law of parsimony" or "law of succinctness"): "entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem", or "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity".
This is often paraphrased as "All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the right one." In other words, when multiple competing theories are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selecting the theory that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest entities. It is in this sense that Occam's razor is usually understood."
Wikipedia.orgAlright, cool. However, we are dealing with ideas that are very
alien to us. We are forced to make assumptions about canon and explanations to this series because nothing is in writing and there are multiple versions of it (directors cuts, assembly cuts, deleted scenes). Just because my theories are complex doesn't mean they're wrong, and so far you haven't been picking them apart.
They could be wrong, but show me your theory. My mind is open and my fingers are waiting.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 12:39:45 AM
body snatchers? awful film. if that's what your referring to. or was it the more recent "dream catchers" with their "shit weasels".
This new AVP-R idea is in good company i see ;)
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 12:40:32 AM
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 29, 2007, 12:39:10 AM
How many crap movies stole this idea then? lol
well, a quote i love is..."Every horror movie since Alien has stollen somethig from it"
Yes and completely distorted and bastardized themselves. Dont put that on alien lol
Yeah, the movie is "The Hidden"
http://imdb.com/title/tt0093185/
I'm not saying the PredAlien should do EXACTLY what the aliens do in that film, but when I first heard of this method....I must say that movie reminded me of it.
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Oct 29, 2007, 12:34:56 AM
Once again, here is my explaination for this regurgitation method:
---------------------------------------------------------
To me, this regurgitation is just an alternative "face-hugger" and an interesting survival method. When the Queen is young and not ready to reproduce the masses of eggs through an egg-sac (and assuming there are no other Alien warriors around, at the time), the Queen will run around and quickly plant hosts with embryos that are probably in much more advanced stages, than face-hugger embryos, thus the embryos that are regurgitated will burst faster. The face-huggers have a slower process of "impregnating". but there will MORE of the face-huggers, when the eggs are layed, of course.
So, once the Queen has enough warriors to help construct a hive, she goes into hiding within the hive and matures, thus she becomes full-grown, produces an egg-sac and starts to produce the hundreds to thousands of eggs, which do the process at a slightly slower pace, but at a much grander scale.
Now, when the Queen is running around "regurgitating" the embryos, I think the process of the embryo being created inside of her will be faster than a facehugger, but the time in between the creation of the embryos will probably not be in a matter of minutes, but certainly not as long as human pregnancy, for example.
----------------------------------------
I also want to add that I don't think the PredAlien "vomits" (not like the Excorsist), but mainly passes the embryo (maybe, just like the face-hugger, or the chestburster might be more developed and we see the burster body go from one mouth to another).
Speaking of which, anyone recall the Alien 3 comic series, which showed the Queen chestburster climb out of Newt's mouth and climb into Ripley's mouth, after the crash?
On a related subject, there was a movie, which had these alien creatures control humans, by crawling down the human mouths...I can't remember the name of it. I think there was a sequel made. Anyone know what movies I'm talking about? The creatures could go from one host to another, by crawling out of the hosts mouths and go into another human mouth. The creatures were kind of like slugs, if I remember correctly.
Jason goes to Hell.
My bad, the movie is "The Hidden". It's been a while, since I saw that movie.
http://imdb.com/title/tt0093185/
But Night of the Creeps sounds just like it
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 29, 2007, 12:41:24 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 12:39:45 AM
body snatchers? awful film. if that's what your referring to. or was it the more recent "dream catchers" with their "shit weasels".
This new AVP-R idea is in good company i see ;)
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 12:40:32 AM
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 29, 2007, 12:39:10 AM
How many crap movies stole this idea then? lol
well, a quote i love is..."Every horror movie since Alien has stollen somethig from it"
Yes and completely distorted and bastardized themselves. Dont put that on alien lol
body snatchers was a really old movie that had little slug-like things invade a person's body an control them, the thing does the same thing, except its a more complex organism. Dreamcatchers had things which come out of the person's body, but not by bursting out the chest, they came out the ass, hence they were called "shit weasels" in the film. lol.
Neither one had something enter the mouth, but i could be wrong about "invasion of the body snatchers"(that was the full title i think).
edit:
invasion of the body snatchers was the "pod people" film. lol
But the idea of controlling a person remains.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 12:14:28 AM
Gates i said "Alien fans" not you stop skimming start reading...
Yes but you were responding to my post thus indirectly including me in that group...but fair enough either way... :)
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 12:14:28 AM
molting makes them more complex,
no to be honest not the most amazing thing i've ever seen the mouth rape idea...but its rarely used anywhere and can work great...if you give it a chance...me i haven't desided yet i'm not condeeming it or embrashing jsut stateing how it can work
I think your missing my point, I never said that it will look bad on screen...the brothers seem to have a flare for the dramatic (which isn't bad) and they will probably make the scene out to be as shocking and disturbing as they can, thematically speaking...but as far as it not breaking canon, I can not agree... :-\
Quote from: Otnip on Oct 29, 2007, 12:23:05 AM
I'm not going to argue with you all night, so please, if you think simple = right, state your simple theory on the matter and why this does not follow canon. I've been skimming through this thread, and I must have missed it.
I didn't have to type it out because another member already had and I agree with him...here's the quote:
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Oct 28, 2007, 07:07:16 PM
So, in 350 years time, with scanning technology already available and perfected in Alien WITHOUT any 'hands-on' scientist interference, they could not scan the Queen and learn her morphology eyes-only, and learn her reproductory organs were different from one cycle to the other...?
How did they know she was ready to lay eggs in a 'couple of days, maybe less' then...?
It's simple, logical and carries the least variables...
Quote from: Otnip on Oct 29, 2007, 12:23:05 AM
Remember, a mind is like a parachute. If its not open, it doesn't work. (Frank Zappa quote, not me :) )
I
had an open mind, before this vomit nonsense became public, I argued the brothers would use egg-morphing while other's claimed there would be something different...then they throw us this crap idea; I surveyed the facts (canon in other films), read the opinions of others and formulated my own...call me crazy but I always thought
that's what an open mind was for... ;)
Well, lets observe your point...why didn't they scan her in AR....what would they Scan her with?
can't be seen on inferead, Xray? and lets say they did see it..how would they know what it was...lets even say they did know what it was...they could tell when its in this stage its right before she starts egg laying. the General didn't care about the science crap he wanted the facts..that's what they gave
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 12:46:59 AM
the idea of controlling a person remains.
As does the arbitrary nastiness.
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Oct 29, 2007, 12:34:56 AM
I also want to add that I don't think the PredAlien "vomits" (not like the Excorsist), but mainly passes the embryo (maybe, just like the face-hugger, or the chestburster might be more developed and we see the burster body go from one mouth to another).
Speaking of which, anyone recall the Alien 3 comic series, which showed the Queen chestburster climb out of Newt's mouth and climb into Ripley's mouth, after the crash?
I remember that, and indeed this reproduction idea just seems to be borrowed from the Fasano Alien III script too, as I've pasted a little earlier when Ripley was directly regurgitating the chestburster in her into a monk's mouth, but we'll see.
So how many films have copied alien and failed its artful balance out there? We asked for one plot about slugs and we got like 4 films lol
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 29, 2007, 12:56:07 AM
So how many films have copied alien and failed its artful balance out there? We asked for one plot about slugs and we got like 4 films lol
slugs, pod people, amoeba like alien jelly..its all the same in those movies. lol
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 12:58:15 AM
slugs, pod people, amoeba like alien jelly..its all the same in those movies. lol
I would think the father of all of these bastard children should make sure to keep on the straight and narrow more.
Even camerons ideas are getting destroyed nowadays.. doom was a total ripoff heh
*cough* Halo *cough*
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 29, 2007, 12:59:42 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 12:58:15 AM
slugs, pod people, amoeba like alien jelly..its all the same in those movies. lol
I would think the father of all of these bastard children should make sure to keep on the straight and narrow more.
Even camerons ideas are getting destroyed nowadays.. doom was a total ripoff heh
doom was awful. And not just because dwayne "the rock" johnson was in it.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 12:51:29 AM
Well, lets observe your point...why didn't they scan her in AR....what would they Scan her with?
can't be seen on inferead, Xray?
Ash's old a$$ scanner was able to digitally x-ray the facehugger on Kane's face without any problem, infact his equipment was spitting out chemical readouts and clearly showed the tube down his throat was feeding him 'something'...it's simple logic to assume that in the time frame Rez takes place in, the scientist's equipment was far more advanced and able to detect this secondary reproduction method easily...
Quoteand lets say they did see it..how would they know what it was...lets even say they did know what it was...they could tell when its in this stage its right before she starts egg laying. the General didn't care about the science crap he wanted the facts..that's what they gave
Exactly...he wanted quick results...you are arguing that the vomit idea is to produce protection for the predqueen quickly...under this stipulation if the vomit idea existed, it would have been prudent for the team to tell this to the head of operations...
good points Gates, but i can respond to them
Why they didn't tell the General...they didn't have hosts then and new telling him wouldn't make a diffrence....
Second, true about the scanners but they didn't look like they had anything to scan her with? everytime they scanned anything else it was under a scaner not in a big room
I'm just saying that when I read about this PredAlien regurgitation method, it made me think of "The Hidden" and how the creatures are passed from one host to another. I'm not saying the chestbursters will EXACTLY be passed like that, but probably very similiar and to me, that COULD work.
If we use my theory of what a young Queen does, when there are no Alien drones around to help, this regurgitation method makes sense, IMO.
Or maybe the PredAlien has its own method (seperate reproduction cycle from the Aliens, after it's born normally from a Predator host). Maybe it takes on it's own type of reproduction cycle, which is different than the Aliens. Sure, that would complicate things, but I'm trying to make this logical.
Honestly, I like this new idea about as much as I like the egg morphing bit from Alien - Directors cut.
Not really crazy about either but I don't think that one is necessarily worse than the other. This new way is pretty unexpected, and I think thats why it has gotten so much negative backlash.
What does bother me is that the bros seemed to have kind of ignored what the fans wanted and were hoping for... honestly my favorite part of the Aliens mythology is the facehuggers. They are the creepiest, scariest, most unique part of the films for me. This regurgitation part is not only (arguably) inconsistent but completely removes one of the best parts.
Facehuggers will still be in it and for about the same amount of time
Quote from: automirage04 on Oct 29, 2007, 01:12:17 AM
Honestly, I like this new idea about as much as I like the egg morphing bit from Alien - Directors cut.
Not really crazy about either but I don't think that one is necessarily worse than the other. This new way is pretty unexpected, and I think thats why it has gotten so much negative backlash.
What does bother me is that the bros seemed to have kind of ignored what the fans wanted and were hoping for... honestly my favorite part of the Aliens mythology is the facehuggers. They are the creepiest, scariest, most unique part of the films for me. This regurgitation part is not only (arguably) inconsistent but completely removes one of the best parts.
indeed. more facehuggers running around attaching themselves to people > than just 2.
we might get more than just two...maybe FOUR!!! ;D
Quote from: Gates on Oct 29, 2007, 12:48:19 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 12:14:28 AM
Gates i said "Alien fans" not you stop skimming start reading...
Yes but you were responding to my post thus indirectly including me in that group...but fair enough either way... :)
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 12:14:28 AM
molting makes them more complex,
no to be honest not the most amazing thing i've ever seen the mouth rape idea...but its rarely used anywhere and can work great...if you give it a chance...me i haven't desided yet i'm not condeeming it or embrashing jsut stateing how it can work
I think your missing my point, I never said that it will look bad on screen...the brothers seem to have a flare for the dramatic (which isn't bad) and they will probably make the scene out to be as shocking and disturbing as they can, thematically speaking...but as far as it not breaking canon, I can not agree... :-\
Quote from: Otnip on Oct 29, 2007, 12:23:05 AM
I'm not going to argue with you all night, so please, if you think simple = right, state your simple theory on the matter and why this does not follow canon. I've been skimming through this thread, and I must have missed it.
I didn't have to type it out because another member already had and I agree with him...here's the quote:
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Oct 28, 2007, 07:07:16 PM
So, in 350 years time, with scanning technology already available and perfected in Alien WITHOUT any 'hands-on' scientist interference, they could not scan the Queen and learn her morphology eyes-only, and learn her reproductory organs were different from one cycle to the other...?
How did they know she was ready to lay eggs in a 'couple of days, maybe less' then...?
It's simple, logical and carries the least variables...
Quote from: Otnip on Oct 29, 2007, 12:23:05 AM
Remember, a mind is like a parachute. If its not open, it doesn't work. (Frank Zappa quote, not me :) )
I had an open mind, before this vomit nonsense became public, I argued the brothers would use egg-morphing while other's claimed there would be something different...then they throw us this crap idea; I surveyed the facts (canon in other films), read the opinions of others and formulated my own...call me crazy but I always thought that's what an open mind was for... ;)
Well, now that I know your stance. You believe that with scanning technology that if they can tell when the queen will lay eggs they can tell what its reproductive organs did in different cycles.
You're right, had they seen something via scanning, they would have told Perez. Therefore, they didn't see anything. Theres my one assumption. Being born a fully developed queen, ready to produce eggs, it didn't need to and couldn't reproduce this way. So if you would like to assume that they had the technology to somehow track an organism through its stages without knowing about how a queen even originates in the first place...
Go ahead.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 12:46:59 AM
Dreamcatchers had things which come out of the person's body, but not by bursting out the chest, they came out the ass, hence they were called "shit weasels" in the film. lol.
Except the chest and stomach is probably the smartest area to make a creature hibernate. I always viewed the chest burst as a forced c section. I dunno wtf these other people are doing.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 01:15:17 AM
we might get more than just two...maybe FOUR!!! ;D
oh wow, that makes a difference. ::)
Anyway the point remains that facehuggers are an essential part of the alien lifecycle that shouldn't be minimized or neglected.
try, but persoanly i like this more than the Predator ship having tons of facehuggers
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 01:19:10 AM
try, but persoanly i like this more than the Predator ship having tons of facehuggers
I was liking that idea.. its the cleanest. We already saw a derelict ship have tons of eggs in 1, so that fits like a glove. Easy way out.
Why is this not the reason? -_-
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 29, 2007, 01:20:28 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 01:19:10 AM
try, but persoanly i like this more than the Predator ship having tons of facehuggers
I was liking that idea.. its ther cleanest. We already saw a derelict ship have tons of eggs in 1, so that fits like a glove. Easy way out.
are u suggesting the Bros should have cut corners?
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 01:19:10 AM
try, but persoanly i like this more than the Predator ship having tons of facehuggers
why? Oh wait, you must like enabling/defending the laziness of Alec Gillis and tom woodruff.
Seriously from all the behind the scenes interviews and commentary from the quadrilogy i get the sense that they are cool, down to earth guys,but at the same time they are really f**king lazy and cut corners all the time. lol.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 01:21:13 AM
are u suggesting the Bros should have cut corners?
No, but an easy way out rather than going the arbitrary way: puke fest.
Well, peronally they look like their willing to take risks insteed of doing the expected...that's when you get results not taking the eeasy route of...ship full of face huggers which i know fans would say that its stupid
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 01:24:22 AM
Well, peronally they look like their willing to take risks insteed of doing the expected...that's when you get results not taking the eeasy route of...ship full of face huggers which i know fans would say that its stupid
how is storing eggs anymore stupid than storing facehuggers in jars?
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 01:26:26 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 01:24:22 AM
Well, peronally they look like their willing to take risks insteed of doing the expected...that's when you get results not taking the eeasy route of...ship full of face huggers which i know fans would say that its stupid
how is storing eggs anymore stupid than storing facehuggers in jars?
its not...the point is i know and u know if they went this way fans would say "Why the preds have THAT many eggs on the ship." and lots of other crap
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 01:28:18 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 01:26:26 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 01:24:22 AM
Well, peronally they look like their willing to take risks insteed of doing the expected...that's when you get results not taking the eeasy route of...ship full of face huggers which i know fans would say that its stupid
how is storing eggs anymore stupid than storing facehuggers in jars?
its not...the point is i know and u know if they went this way fans would say "Why the preds have THAT many eggs on the ship." and lots of other crap
What's the difference? People are complaining now about this new idea. At least the eggs on the ship idea would not actually break canon, so the complaints would be more hollow and not backed up by anything as opposed to now, where there are real reasons to dislike the vomiting and the queen molting.
Besides how does it not make sense that the predators would have a ship with a reserve of alien eggs in order to use when they wanted to seed a planet to go on their next hunt?
it would be boring tho
execally, this makes everything more of a threat it raises the stakes gives us somethign new...
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 29, 2007, 01:30:57 AM
it would be boring tho
Not if the script/plot weren't boring in regards to it as well as everything else.
Holy crud, 112 pages.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 01:32:03 AM
execally, this makes everything more of a threat it raises the stakes gives us somethign new...
You can't have something new at the expense of breaking canon or being more far-fetched than you need to be even for a sci-fi film. I'm not opposed to seing new things in an alien related film, but it has to also make sense. For one I would have liked to have seen the aliens actually cocoon people onscreen, or build the hive as well. Certainly nothing non-canon about those things and it would still be different.
Not too mention there already is a bunch of new shit in avp-r aside from this bullshit stuff.
-the predalien itself is new
-the predator's whip weapon
-the predator's implosion bomb
-Aliens even being in an urban environment(although not the greatest thing, its still counts as something
never seen in a film with aliens in it)
Its not breaking canon...have you ever seen an alien?
Because it can do it one way doesn't mean it can't do it another
no Queen Molt into one...no one has ever said this is impossible, then if u say AR Queen didn't puke...its only part of the molting cycle
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 29, 2007, 01:30:57 AM
it would be boring tho
I dont consider puke having entertainment value lol
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 01:34:06 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 01:32:03 AM
execally, this makes everything more of a threat it raises the stakes gives us somethign new...
You can't have something new at the expense of breaking canon or being more far-fetched than you need to be even for a sci-fi film. I'm not opposed to seing new things in an alien related film, but it has to also make sense. For one I would have liked to have seen the aliens actually cocoon people onscreen, or build the hive as well. Certainly nothing non-canon about those things and it would still be different.
Not too mention there already is a bunch of new shit in avp-r aside from this bullshit stuff.
-the predalien itself is new
-the predator's whip weapon
-the predator's implosion bomb
-Aliens even being in an urban environment(although not the greatest thing, its still counts as something
never seen in a film with aliens in it)
Exactly.
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 29, 2007, 01:36:54 AM
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 29, 2007, 01:30:57 AM
it would be boring tho
I dont consider puke having entertainment value lol
I don't think it's gonna be like puking... I think it's gonna be like the Acid-spit at Christie's face except coming ot of the inner mouth and going down the throat. That kind of contolled stream... yeah.
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 29, 2007, 01:36:54 AM
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 29, 2007, 01:30:57 AM
it would be boring tho
I dont consider puke having entertainment value lol
who would think that an alien drooling into or squirting goo down someone's throat as they gurgled and choked on it, is entertainment? The balance of gross vs. cool and interesting is out of whack, its way more gross and far reaching than anything else.
Quote from: Vemados on Oct 29, 2007, 01:40:43 AM
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 29, 2007, 01:36:54 AM
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 29, 2007, 01:30:57 AM
it would be boring tho
I dont consider puke having entertainment value lol
I don't think it's gonna be like puking... I think it's gonna be like the Acid-spit at Christie's face except coming ot of the inner mouth and going down the throat. That kind of contolled stream... yeah.
if the predalien hacks this goo up from its stomach how will it not be acidic and merely melt the person's esophagus anyway? If the idea that the aliens can actually spit acid counts as being canon, then this vomit idea should not be able to lead to any reproductive capabilities as the host would not survive it.
but i suppose it can differentiate what it chooses to spit out and there will be no acidic traces in this other goo/vomit. ::)
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 01:41:12 AM
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 29, 2007, 01:36:54 AM
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 29, 2007, 01:30:57 AM
it would be boring tho
I dont consider puke having entertainment value lol
who would think that an alien drooling into or squirting goo down someone's throat as they gurgled and choked on it, is entertainment? The balance of gross vs. cool and interesting is out of whack, its way more gross and far reaching than anything else.
the same ppl that lov seeing facehugger penis being put in2 a persons mouth, then having a little snake lik creature BURST out of there chest. bloody, gory, disgusting, inhuman...
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 01:41:12 AM
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 29, 2007, 01:36:54 AM
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 29, 2007, 01:30:57 AM
it would be boring tho
I dont consider puke having entertainment value lol
who would think that an alien drooling into or squirting goo down someone's throat as they gurgled and choked on it, is entertainment? The balance of gross vs. cool and interesting is out of whack, its way more gross and far reaching than anything else.
You don't know how it will look.
Think of this as a form of rape as its intended and its alot mroe interesting of course if you use puke and vomit it makes it look bad...its niether, it's the same thing a facehugger does
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 29, 2007, 01:45:53 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 01:41:12 AM
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 29, 2007, 01:36:54 AM
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 29, 2007, 01:30:57 AM
it would be boring tho
I dont consider puke having entertainment value lol
who would think that an alien drooling into or squirting goo down someone's throat as they gurgled and choked on it, is entertainment? The balance of gross vs. cool and interesting is out of whack, its way more gross and far reaching than anything else.
the same ppl that lov seeing facehugger penis being put in2 a persons mouth, then having a little snake lik creature BURST out of there chest. bloody, gory, disgusting, inhuman...
all the more reason, we don't need anymore phallic symbolism. its at a reasonable level that you can't avoid but adding more that isn't necessary is just stupid and gratituitous to 13-16yrds who get off on that sort of thing. lol.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 01:48:33 AM
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 29, 2007, 01:45:53 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 01:41:12 AM
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 29, 2007, 01:36:54 AM
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 29, 2007, 01:30:57 AM
it would be boring tho
I dont consider puke having entertainment value lol
who would think that an alien drooling into or squirting goo down someone's throat as they gurgled and choked on it, is entertainment? The balance of gross vs. cool and interesting is out of whack, its way more gross and far reaching than anything else.
the same ppl that lov seeing facehugger penis being put in2 a persons mouth, then having a little snake lik creature BURST out of there chest. bloody, gory, disgusting, inhuman...
all the more reason, we don't need anymore phallic symbolism. its at a reasonable level that you can't avoid but adding more that isn't necessary is just stupid and gratituitous to 13-16yrds who get off on that sort of thing. lol.
well i may be conferming ur argument, but im 17 and i think that scene will be awesome, and thats what matters 2 me most. if it conflicts 2 much ill just write the whole movie off as non-canon and enjoy it anyway.
Giger had some simlar looking stuff as was brought up before...surprised that's been mentioned so little by alien fans
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 01:47:42 AM
Think of this as a form of rape as its intended and its alot mroe interesting of course if you use puke and vomit it makes it look bad...its niether, it's the same thing a facehugger does
so if it does the same thing as a facehugger, why not just let the facehuggers do it? How the f**k is it new and adventurous then? A walking, upright facehugger. Yeah that doesn't negate the regular facehuggers or anything. ::)
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 01:52:09 AM
Giger had some simlar looking stuff as was brought up before...surprised that's been mentioned so little by alien fans
yeah but he's borderline insane/genius, you can't use everything he'd come up with. lol
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 29, 2007, 01:45:53 AM
the same ppl that lov seeing facehugger penis being put in2 a persons mouth, then having a little snake lik creature BURST out of there chest. bloody, gory, disgusting, inhuman...
The process so far is so eerily simple, it strikes a chord in people. Because its partially similar to a real creatures gestation. Theres a womb, theres a creature to impregnate, theres a neatness to it that feels more like nature.
I think were getting farther away from this smiliarity the more weird we get with it.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 11:14:33 PM
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 28, 2007, 11:11:17 PM
Quote from: Wolf Sazen on Oct 28, 2007, 11:07:38 PM
Anyway, the predalien regurgitating in the potential hosts mouth gets my vote for disgustingly, and disturbingly awesome!
::)
The future, ladies and gentlemen.
yeah that's just sad. There are people who would still say it was awesome if the predalien whipped out a huge exo-skeletal dick and had it extend from its crotch in the same manner as the inner jaw, dripping with slime and then literally raped its victims.
No, my friend, I wouldn't think that would be awesome, and just remember, you came up with that one(huge exoskeletal dick extending from crotch). The idea of the pred-alien inner jaw working as a reproductive tool as well as a weapon is a good one. It's something we havn't seen from the xeno's yet, and I think it brings a new horrifying aspect to their mystique.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 01:53:14 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 01:47:42 AM
Think of this as a form of rape as its intended and its alot mroe interesting of course if you use puke and vomit it makes it look bad...its niether, it's the same thing a facehugger does
so if it does the same thing as a facehugger, why not just let the facehuggers do it? How the f**k is it new and adventurous then? A walking, upright facehugger. Yeah that doesn't negate the regular facehuggers or anything. ::)
mainly, fans would like seeing an army of facehugger desend upon the little town come on that'd be stupid....
and yea i know he's border line insane seen some interviews i was just stating the fact
How about we see how it works in the film before saying it doesn't work!
Quote from: Hybrid PM on Oct 29, 2007, 02:00:00 AM
How about we see how it works in the film before saying it doesn't work!
What That's OUTRAGOUIS if we do that we can't bicker!!!! ::)
Well, it seems like in almost every new Alien movie, something new to the cycle is introduced. This is AVP-R's contribution. I find it funny that people complain about it, yet we should all accept every other "new" idea that was introduced, after ALIEN.
Does the egg-morphing in ALIEN make sense? Yes, it explained the eggs, at the time.
Does the Queen in ALIENS make sense? Yes, it explains the eggs, again (since the theatrical release of Alien did not include the egg morphing). The inclusion of the Queen, pretty much destroys the need for egg-morphing, if we are to think that's where the eggs REALLY originate from.
Does the superface-hugger work in the ALIEN 3 AC? Yes, it shows us there's a specific facehugger that carries a Queen. NOTE: Didn't the Predators in the original AVP comics try to detect and destroy the Queen facehuggers, before the hunt began?
Does the inclusion of another cycle for the Queen to be able to reproduce like a human being in Alien: Resurrection make sense? Um, I guess, since there were strange effects from the human cloning. Personally, I HATED the idea of the Newborn and the human reproductive cycle.
Does the sped up Alien chestburster gestation in AVP make sense? Well, it didn't if you saw the movie. But, it made sense, after Anderson explained that the Queen was given special hormones. Thus, the movie failed to show this, and people were rightfully, confused. It should've been explained in the AVP film.
Does this regurgitation method of the PredAlien make sense? Well, this is another new cycle being introduced and if my theory is correct of the young Queen running around to quickly make enough warriors to construct a hive for her to mature and grow an egg sac to produce eggs, as a normal Queen...then yes.
Either that or like I also mentioned, the PredAlien is its own species. Seperate from the Aliens, which means it can have it's own reproductive cycle that is different than what we expect from the Aliens.
I think it's interesting we see new things to the Alien cycle in these movies. Are some of these ideas just canon...maybe. But this regurgitation method, to me, is much more appropriate, than say turning a human into a egg.
Facehuggers are mainly for MASS produciton, while this regurgitation method is for short production, until the egg laying can begin. So, there is still the need for facehuggers. They can still be used to reproduce when there is a Queen or not. Nothing about their importance changes, it's just that there is an alternative method.
The regurgitation is something we have never seen, because we never really saw a young Queen, running around free.
In Alien: Resurrection, the Queen was captive for most of the movie and of course, she was captive, when she began to lay eggs (kind of funny we never saw the egg sac).
LOL bickering is an artform on this site. :D
Quote from: Alienseseses on Oct 28, 2007, 09:53:24 PM
My new theory:
Every alien can make eggs.
A normal alien can cover the human with a hive resin, and coat it with an internal liquid which will turn the human into an egg.
The queen has this liquid too, but it is in her gut and forms eggs inside her, which come out of the eggsack.
A premature queen without a sack can bring up this liquid and exert it from the mouth into another organism. However, with a young queen the liquid isn't completely matured, so instead of making eggs, it makes an embryo, which is normally inside the facehugger inside the egg. So, basically, the most basic core of the egg is the burster embryo.
My theory.
Destroyed by the director saying this is an ordinary adult becoming a Queen. :)
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 10:03:52 PM
Also taking into account; poor image quality on the cameras and, as I said before, Ripley not exactly being the most coherent. She was obviously flustered.
It should also be pointed out that being in hypersleep for 57 years was, going by reactions, virtually unprecedented. Who knows what sort of effect that could have on her memories?
She also mentions Kane having reported seeing "thousands of eggs", but in no version of '
Alien' is that ever communicated. :)
I say that extended hypsleep screwed around with what she remembered. If we claim she should have recognised the cocooning material's
purpose (she never knew that), then we should also be saying she was psychic, because Kane never reported any such thing.
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 28, 2007, 10:07:44 PM
Id rather see a Queen than have to deal with hermaphrodite science. Thats too much.
Queens
are hermaphrodites.
Just like the facehuggers are.
Quote from: persistentvision on Oct 28, 2007, 10:16:14 PM
I am patiently twiddling my thumbs waiting for some brave scriptwriter/producer/director/special effects team to bring to the screens, the most ignored aspect of the Alien life-cycle, as originally conceived by Dan O`Bannon for the original ALIEN script. That being that (in the first scripting for the Nostromo astronauts who discover the Space Jockey Wreck) on LV 426 there was a Pyramid found with heiroglyphics that depicted the Egg-FaceHugger-Chestburster-Drone Lifecycle; and the Pyramid was actually made BY THE ALIENS, (not Predators as in AVP!). The Pyramid was supposed to be an intrinsic part of the Hive`s Continuing life-cycle just like an ant hill or a termite mound. This original concept credited the ALIEN species with complex abilities and even Culture interlinked with their incredibly ruthless ferocity!! Such a great concept...
Although it would be a radical departure, I think it would be interesting to see Aliens with a technological civilisation. The only ones we've seen are very much removed from whatever their natural habitat could be. For all we know, the Aliens could have built that derelict.
I'd prefer they were kept as predatory creatures, but someone like Giger could do something fantastic with that.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 10:32:23 PM
Facehugger=Egg=Queen=lots of money
Props used only three years ago and kept in pristine condition to show off at the studio = no money.
:)
Quote from: wmmvrrvrrmm on Oct 28, 2007, 10:38:04 PM
well, the Vincent Ward script might have been the source of the impregnation by regugitation idea that the Strause brothers have decided to go with. I hope he or Fasano or whoever came up with the idea gets a credit for the new movie
More likely the Tyranids. They deliberately copied the basic Alien design and aesthetic, plus reproduce that way.
Quote from: kommander696 on Oct 28, 2007, 10:43:45 PM
In addition to my earlier post. There is one thing that is puzzling me. Why is it that when Scar got facehugged in AvP and subsequently died thereafter with thanks to the queens tail spearing him before her demise. Why did the Alien that was birthed from him in the final scene in AvP have the characteristics of the Predator (IE: its mandibles)?
We could say the human ones also have the basic human jaws. Jaw configuration matters not. It would be surprising if that stage didn't have them.
Quote from: Otnip on Oct 28, 2007, 11:25:39 PM
Why did aliens try to kill Scar even though he had an embryo? Paul W.S Anderson. ::)
As explained in the commentries, he deliberately had the Queen seeking just the right position to strike, without harming the 'cargo'.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 11:54:21 PM
its logical because other animals do it....and its quicker if you don't have time to mature, make an eggsac, or no where safe enough for hive
The Predalien has
plenty of time and should use it to rest in one of the many places available there to hide.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 12:04:16 AM
A1: for one the ship is to small for a Queen...
I'd heavily disagree.
Quotethat fact aside, i doubt the molting is a split second thing (which if it was would make me angry) time, less than twenty four ours being alive, not enough hosts to do anything.
It should still have been sticking babies down necks. If it had done that to Dallas (and we know what it did do to that character), then the resulting creature would have made for two of them roaming around, by the time Ripley was later setting events.
QuoteA3: Queen on the way don't need to molt.
But every reason to supposedly make this 'advance army' they allegedly need.
Conversely, to change your theory: Adult capable of moulting in the area. No need for Queen.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 12:19:58 AM
logical reason? i got one...Chet can't put an egg sac and sit lay eggs durring WW3
There would
be no war, if it sought out somewhere safe and quiet and did what it should be adapting to do.
The only reason the Predator seems to keep on finding it is because it keeps drawing attention to itself.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 12:51:29 AM
Well, lets observe your point...why didn't they scan her in AR....what would they Scan her with?
Whatever they used to predict when the natural cycle was meant to be up and ready. They must have been succeeding somehow, in order to do that. They were very closely monitoring the reproductive system.
Quotelets say they did see it..how would they know what it was...lets even say they did know what it was...they could tell when its in this stage its right before she starts egg laying. the General didn't care about the science crap he wanted the facts..that's what they gave
The same could be said of how they knew she was going to lay eggs. They had no real knowledge of how it was going to commence doing that. They would have had to monitor each and every possible chemical and biological change.
Quoteno one has ever said this is impossible
No, natural Queens do that, without anyone having to. :)
Quotethen if u say AR Queen didn't puke...its only part of the molting cycle
Which the Nostromo Alien should have been going through, too.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 29, 2007, 02:03:53 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Oct 28, 2007, 09:53:24 PM
My new theory:
Every alien can make eggs.
A normal alien can cover the human with a hive resin, and coat it with an internal liquid which will turn the human into an egg.
The queen has this liquid too, but it is in her gut and forms eggs inside her, which come out of the eggsack.
A premature queen without a sack can bring up this liquid and exert it from the mouth into another organism. However, with a young queen the liquid isn't completely matured, so instead of making eggs, it makes an embryo, which is normally inside the facehugger inside the egg. So, basically, the most basic core of the egg is the burster embryo.
My theory.
Destroyed by the director saying this is an ordinary adult becoming a Queen. :)
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2007, 10:03:52 PM
Also taking into account; poor image quality on the cameras and, as I said before, Ripley not exactly being the most coherent. She was obviously flustered.
It should also be pointed out that being in hypersleep for 57 years was, going by reactions, virtually unprecedented. Who knows what sort of effect that could have on her memories?
She also mentions Kane having reported seeing "thousands of eggs", but in no version of 'Alien' is that ever communicated. :)
I say that extended hypsleep screwed around with what she remembered. If we claim she should have recognised the cocooning material's purpose (she never knew that), then we should also be saying she was psychic, because Kane never reported any such thing.
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 28, 2007, 10:07:44 PM
Id rather see a Queen than have to deal with hermaphrodite science. Thats too much.
Queens are hermaphrodites.
Just like the facehuggers are.
Quote from: persistentvision on Oct 28, 2007, 10:16:14 PM
I am patiently twiddling my thumbs waiting for some brave scriptwriter/producer/director/special effects team to bring to the screens, the most ignored aspect of the Alien life-cycle, as originally conceived by Dan O`Bannon for the original ALIEN script. That being that (in the first scripting for the Nostromo astronauts who discover the Space Jockey Wreck) on LV 426 there was a Pyramid found with heiroglyphics that depicted the Egg-FaceHugger-Chestburster-Drone Lifecycle; and the Pyramid was actually made BY THE ALIENS, (not Predators as in AVP!). The Pyramid was supposed to be an intrinsic part of the Hive`s Continuing life-cycle just like an ant hill or a termite mound. This original concept credited the ALIEN species with complex abilities and even Culture interlinked with their incredibly ruthless ferocity!! Such a great concept...
Although it would be a radical departure, I think it would be interesting to see Aliens with a technological civilisation. The only ones we've seen are very much removed from whatever their natural habitat could be. For all we know, the Aliens could have built that derelict.
I'd prefer they were kept as predatory creatures, but someone like Giger could do something fantastic with that.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 10:32:23 PM
Facehugger=Egg=Queen=lots of money
Props used only three years ago and kept in pristine condition to show off at the studio = no money.
:)
Quote from: wmmvrrvrrmm on Oct 28, 2007, 10:38:04 PM
well, the Vincent Ward script might have been the source of the impregnation by regugitation idea that the Strause brothers have decided to go with. I hope he or Fasano or whoever came up with the idea gets a credit for the new movie
More likely the Tyranids. They deliberately copied the basic Alien design and aesthetic, plus reproduce that way.
Quote from: kommander696 on Oct 28, 2007, 10:43:45 PM
In addition to my earlier post. There is one thing that is puzzling me. Why is it that when Scar got facehugged in AvP and subsequently died thereafter with thanks to the queens tail spearing him before her demise. Why did the Alien that was birthed from him in the final scene in AvP have the characteristics of the Predator (IE: its mandibles)?
We could say the human ones also have the basic human jaws. Jaw configuration matters not. It would be surprising if that stage didn't have them.
Quote from: Otnip on Oct 28, 2007, 11:25:39 PM
Why did aliens try to kill Scar even though he had an embryo? Paul W.S Anderson. ::)
As explained in the commentries, he deliberately had the Queen seeking just the right position to strike, without harming the 'cargo'.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 28, 2007, 11:54:21 PM
its logical because other animals do it....and its quicker if you don't have time to mature, make an eggsac, or no where safe enough for hive
The Predalien has plenty of time and should use it to rest in one of the many places available there to hide.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 12:04:16 AM
A1: for one the ship is to small for a Queen...
I'd heavily disagree.
Quotethat fact aside, i doubt the molting is a split second thing (which if it was would make me angry) time, less than twenty four ours being alive, not enough hosts to do anything.
It should still have been sticking babies down necks. If it had done that to Dallas (and we know what it did do to that character), then the resulting creature would have made for two of them roaming around, by the time Ripley was later setting events.
QuoteA3: Queen on the way don't need to molt.
But every reason to supposedly make this 'advance army' they allegedly need.
Conversely, to change your theory: Adult capable of moulting in the area. No need for Queen.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 12:19:58 AM
logical reason? i got one...Chet can't put an egg sac and sit lay eggs durring WW3
There would be no war, if it sought out somewhere safe and quiet and did what it should be adapting to do.
The only reason the Predator seems to keep on finding it is because it keeps drawing attention to itself.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 12:51:29 AM
Well, lets observe your point...why didn't they scan her in AR....what would they Scan her with?
Whatever they used to predict when the natural cycle was meant to be up and ready. They must have been succeeding somehow, in order to do that. They were very closely monitoring the reproductive system.
Quotelets say they did see it..how would they know what it was...lets even say they did know what it was...they could tell when its in this stage its right before she starts egg laying. the General didn't care about the science crap he wanted the facts..that's what they gave
The same could be said of how they knew she was going to lay eggs. They had no real knowledge of how it was going to commence doing that. They would have had to monitor each and every possible chemical and biological change.
Quoteno one has ever said this is impossible
No, natural Queens do that, without anyone having to. :)
Quotethen if u say AR Queen didn't puke...its only part of the molting cycle
Which the Nostromo Alien should have been going through, too.
What color would you like me to paint that wall?
Mlign would take time...A1 alien happens so fast less than 24 hours so it could not had enough time to get in that stage...heck i watch Alien today looked like it might been trying thay with ripley...why wowuld it have its tounge extended towards her face?
with the A1 ship being to small i meant most of the corridors...only one rom (DC) where brent and dallas was would be big enough fo the alien Queen
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 29, 2007, 02:03:53 AM
Queens are hermaphrodites.
Just like the facehuggers are.
And thats plenty enough for me. Why have new instances of blatant hermaphrodites when you can have the established? The queen probably was the best way to approach this. I'm a minimalist.
The Alien is A1 would have eventually molted into a queen.
Quote from: Vemados on Oct 29, 2007, 01:40:43 AM
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 29, 2007, 01:36:54 AM
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 29, 2007, 01:30:57 AM
it would be boring tho
I dont consider puke having entertainment value lol
I don't think it's gonna be like puking... I think it's gonna be like the Acid-spit at Christie's face except coming ot of the inner mouth and going down the throat. That kind of contolled stream... yeah.
I agree my friend.
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Oct 29, 2007, 02:01:54 AM
Does this regurgitation method of the PredAlien make sense? Well, this is another new cycle being introduced and if my theory is correct of the young Queen running around to quickly make enough warriors to construct a hive for her to mature and grow an egg sac to produce eggs, as a normal Queen...then yes.
[...]
I think it's interesting we see new things to the Alien cycle in these movies. Are some of these ideas just canon...maybe. But this regurgitation method, to me, is much more appropriate, than say turning a human into a egg.
Yea but your logic is flawed...all the other additions to the lifecycle didn't render existing canon obsolete...and among other problems, this is another one added to the list...this vomit nonsense renders egg-morphing obsolete and therefore it is lame and unwarranted...
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Oct 29, 2007, 02:01:54 AM
Well, it seems like in almost every new Alien movie, something new to the cycle is introduced. This is AVP-R's contribution. I find it funny that people complain about it, yet we should all accept every other "new" idea that was introduced, after ALIEN.
Does the egg-morphing in ALIEN make sense? Yes, it explained the eggs, at the time.
Does the Queen in ALIENS make sense? Yes, it explains the eggs, again (since the theatrical release of Alien did not include the egg morphing). The inclusion of the Queen, pretty much destroys the need for egg-morphing, if we are to think that's where the eggs REALLY originate from.
Does the superface-hugger work in the ALIEN 3 AC? Yes, it shows us there's a specific facehugger that carries a Queen. NOTE: Didn't the Predators in the original AVP comics try to detect and destroy the Queen facehuggers, before the hunt began?
Does the inclusion of another cycle for the Queen to be able to reproduce like a human being in Alien: Resurrection make sense? Um, I guess, since there were strange effects from the human cloning. Personally, I HATED the idea of the Newborn and the human reproductive cycle.
Does the sped up Alien chestburster gestation in AVP make sense? Well, it didn't if you saw the movie. But, it made sense, after Anderson explained that the Queen was given special hormones. Thus, the movie failed to show this, and people were rightfully, confused. It should've been explained in the AVP film.
Does this regurgitation method of the PredAlien make sense? Well, this is another new cycle being introduced and if my theory is correct of the young Queen running around to quickly make enough warriors to construct a hive for her to mature and grow an egg sac to produce eggs, as a normal Queen...then yes.
Either that or like I also mentioned, the PredAlien is its own species. Seperate from the Aliens, which means it can have it's own reproductive cycle that is different than what we expect from the Aliens.
I think it's interesting we see new things to the Alien cycle in these movies. Are some of these ideas just canon...maybe. But this regurgitation method, to me, is much more appropriate, than say turning a human into a egg.
Facehuggers are mainly for MASS produciton, while this regurgitation method is for short production, until the egg laying can begin. So, there is still the need for facehuggers. They can still be used to reproduce when there is a Queen or not. Nothing about their importance changes, it's just that there is an alternative method.
The regurgitation is something we have never seen, because we never really saw a young Queen, running around free.
In Alien: Resurreciton, the Queen was captive for most of the movie and of course, she was captive, when she began to lay eggs (kind of funny we never saw the egg sac).
I agree.
What if Cameron never introduced the Queen? Do you think someone else would've thought of it?
I mean, we could think of MANY ways the Aliens could reproduce, as hinted/speculated in ALIEN. Egg-morphing, inplanting by tail, etc. Imagine the Alien universe without the Queen. It seems like, just because the Queen is part of the Alien cycle, anything new that is introduced will never fit in the cycle. The Queen is the source of how the Aliens are made and thus, nothing more can be added, than what was already seen in the previous films. Again, the egg-morphing idea...gone, because of the inclusion of the Queen as origin of the eggs.
Well, we never saw a young, free Queen, who had yet to produce eggs via egg sac. Why wouldn't this regurgitation method work for the cycle of the Queen, if say the Alien drones are not able to do this? This is very much like the facehuggers, so I don't know why the image of a young Queen doing the same method doesn't seem "Alien".
The Alien drone molting into a Queen still bothers me though...
Colin, can you please talk about this Alien drone molting into a Queen idea?
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 26, 2007, 09:12:54 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 26, 2007, 09:12:11 PM
We've never seen this time period in a hives or Queens life so its an open field
Exactly my point.
Thats what I have been saying ever since we knew Chet was a she. Young Queen, with a yet un-seen reproductive cycle.
Other than that, she had a Predator for a host.
damn 114 pages in like 2 days thats gotta be a record
Quote from: Wolf Sazen on Oct 29, 2007, 01:56:07 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 28, 2007, 11:14:33 PM
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 28, 2007, 11:11:17 PM
Quote from: Wolf Sazen on Oct 28, 2007, 11:07:38 PM
Anyway, the predalien regurgitating in the potential hosts mouth gets my vote for disgustingly, and disturbingly awesome!
::)
The future, ladies and gentlemen.
yeah that's just sad. There are people who would still say it was awesome if the predalien whipped out a huge exo-skeletal dick and had it extend from its crotch in the same manner as the inner jaw, dripping with slime and then literally raped its victims.
No, my friend, I wouldn't think that would be awesome, and just remember, you came up with that one(huge exoskeletal dick extending from crotch). The idea of the pred-alien inner jaw working as a reproductive tool as well as a weapon is a good one. It's something we havn't seen from the xeno's yet, and I think it brings a new horrifying aspect to their mystique.
yeah i came up with it but wasn't serious. The vomiting idea has been taken seriously enough to be featured in the film.
Quote from: bloodjigsaw on Oct 29, 2007, 02:28:31 AM
damn 114 pages in like 2 days thats gotta be a record
Were also babbling about side topics too.
Everyones complaining about how the species survives if there are no more facehuggers... heres an idea... next movie is a new nest? They CAN die you know. I dont think the aliens have to have a way out of EVERYTHING.
So im particularly against the egg morphing idea where an alien performs a las vegas magic trick and makes an egg without a sack.
Quote from: Hybrid PM on Oct 29, 2007, 02:14:56 AM
The Alien is A1 would have eventually molted into a queen.
says who? What evidence supports that conclusion?
guys maybe i say something wrong...but i don't think the predalien puke on mouth of victim a sort of " undeveloped cherstbuster " or something, simply 'cause what sense have that? a undeveloped embryo who run over throat and arrive into stomach...and...develop...sans the host don't advert nothin'?without pain or eventually die... and the organism don't reject that...
and how think it take traits from host if is un-develop but enough to have a form and arrive in stomach...remade itself from start?
do you think the stuff in anchorpoint essays are attendible?
not to mention that very little have sense in all that by now...
i just wondering because i don't have follow the entire debate in every point
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 29, 2007, 02:31:42 AM
Quote from: bloodjigsaw on Oct 29, 2007, 02:28:31 AM
damn 114 pages in like 2 days thats gotta be a record
Were also babbling about side topics too.
Everyones complaining about how the species survives if there are no more facehuggers... heres an idea... next movie is a new nest? They CAN die you know. I dont think the aliens have to have a way out of EVERYTHING.
So im particularly against the egg morphing idea where an alien performs a las vegas magic trick and makes an egg without a sack.
yeah, the'yre supposed to be highly adaptable, not indestructible and without any struggle for survival. lol.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 02:33:32 AM
Quote from: Hybrid PM on Oct 29, 2007, 02:14:56 AM
The Alien is A1 would have eventually molted into a queen.
says who? What evidence supports that conclusion?
Given the new reproduction method in AVP-R is possible that this one drone if given the opportunity would have molted. Also in the Alien Directors cut audio commentary, Mr. Scott says that this alien also had the ability to reproduce, when it attacks Lambert, it apparently jizzed on her.
when it attacks Lambert, it apparently jizzed on her.
sorry but...jizzed with what? :o
Quote from: darkfaerytales on Oct 29, 2007, 02:43:56 AM
when it attacks Lambert, it apparently jizzed on her.
sorry but...jizzed with what? :o
I have no idea maybe the same method as we are about to see in this movie, but thats what Ridley Scott says.
Quote from: Hybrid PM on Oct 29, 2007, 02:45:42 AM
Quote from: darkfaerytales on Oct 29, 2007, 02:43:56 AM
when it attacks Lambert, it apparently jizzed on her.
sorry but...jizzed with what? :o
I have no idea maybe the same method as we are about to see in this movie, but thats what Ridley Scott says.
umm... 8)
Quote from: Hybrid PM on Oct 29, 2007, 02:40:32 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 02:33:32 AM
Quote from: Hybrid PM on Oct 29, 2007, 02:14:56 AM
The Alien is A1 would have eventually molted into a queen.
says who? What evidence supports that conclusion?
Given the new reproduction method in AVP-R is possible that this one drone if given the opportunity would have molted. Also in the Alien Directors cut audio commentary, Mr. Scott says that this alien also had the ability to reproduce, when it attacks Lambert, it apparently jizzed on her.
no, no, no,..Aliens do not have penises, nor "jizz".. i think your putting too much stock in the fun mr. scott was having with the ambiguity of the scene, in which its never clear what happened. What is clear is that it wasn't tail rape, or rape of any kind. (other than the fact that the alien was closer to her than she would have preferred and sliding its tail up her leg.)
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 29, 2007, 02:03:53 AM
More likely the Tyranids. They deliberately copied the basic Alien design and aesthetic, plus reproduce that way.
all I can find about the Tyranid and Genestealers reproduction online that relates to impregnation is this.. "The Genestealer then thrusts its long, whip-like tongue into the body of the host where it deposits its genetic material in the form of an egg-capsule, "
so is there direct information about Tyranid's vomitting into victims to impregnate them, rather than thrusting a tongue into the body?
Right thats what was shown the tail rape but it could be anything since it was never shown.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 02:47:09 AM
Quote from: Hybrid PM on Oct 29, 2007, 02:40:32 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 02:33:32 AM
Quote from: Hybrid PM on Oct 29, 2007, 02:14:56 AM
The Alien is A1 would have eventually molted into a queen.
says who? What evidence supports that conclusion?
Given the new reproduction method in AVP-R is possible that this one drone if given the opportunity would have molted. Also in the Alien Directors cut audio commentary, Mr. Scott says that this alien also had the ability to reproduce, when it attacks Lambert, it apparently jizzed on her.
no, no, no,..Aliens do not have penises, nor "jizz".. i think your putting too much stock in the fun mr. scott was having with the ambiguity of the scene, in which its never clear what happened. What is clear is that it wasn't tail rape, or rape of any kind. (other than the fact that the alien was closer to her than she would have preferred and sliding its tail up her leg.)
exatly...
Quote from: Hybrid PM on Oct 29, 2007, 02:49:35 AM
Right thats what was shown the tail rape but it could be anything since it was never shown.
anything but jizz, since aliens don't have penises. if they did they would reproduce sexually and you wouldn't need facehuggers to get more aliens.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 02:13:33 AM
Mlign would take time...A1 alien happens so fast less than 24 hours so it could not had enough time to get in that stage...
Firslty, the transformation process is not slow. Secondly, what was stopping them from melting one section of time into another, with a legend stating 'X Hours Later'?
What was stopping them from having the new method as a way to create regular Aliens and egging to make Queens? We could have even kept to the same passing of time, then. There could have been a dramatic pay-off, in the shape of finding an egged victim, half of the way through.
Quoteheck i watch Alien today looked like it might been trying thay with ripley...why wowuld it have its tounge extended towards her face?
To threaten her into submission. To kill her. To incapacitate her. To initiate egg transformation. To sniff her. To say hello. Who knows?
The fact remains, it didn't do this to Dallas.
Quotewith the A1 ship being to small i meant most of the corridors...only one rom (DC) where brent and dallas was would be big enough fo the alien Queen
We only saw a fraction of the Nostromo. It could even have had precisely the same sort of sewage recylcing chamber as the Auriga's nest had settled in.
Besides, what's wrong with it setting up where Brett was dispatched? So long as it would fit, it would be fine.
Quote from: Hybrid PM on Oct 29, 2007, 02:14:56 AM
The Alien is A1 would have eventually molted into a queen.
But wasn't orally reproducing.
Quote from: darkfaerytales on Oct 29, 2007, 02:43:56 AM
sorry but...jizzed with what? :o
Tail, probably (not originally, however, because that tail going up the leg is spliced Brett footage, from when he was going to be impaled through the shoulders).
But Dallas' fate and the lack of a second creature (or third, if we count Brett, too) makes all that a null and void perspective.
Quote from: wmmvrrvrrmm on Oct 29, 2007, 02:49:06 AM
all I can find about the Tyranid and Genestealers reproduction online that relates to impregnation is this.. "The Genestealer then thrusts its long, whip-like tongue into the body of the host where it deposits its genetic material in the form of an egg-capsule, "
so is there direct information about Tyranid's vomitting into victims to impregnate them, rather than thrusting a tongue into the body?
You just basically said it. :)
Genestealers stick their tongues in prey and then vomit out the seed, letting it grow/take ahold of a victim (the material I used to read alluded to it often being down the throat, too). The Predalien is going to be doing exactly the same, but with the inner mouth.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 02:47:09 AM
[...] What is clear is that it wasn't tail rape, or rape of any kind. (other than the fact that the alien was closer to her than she would have preferred and sliding its tail up her leg.)
To a degree I agree with you about the tail-rape...but...it's fun to imagine it...also the lack of pants on her swinging bloody legs doesn't exactly point to a
normal death either... ;D
Quote from: Gates on Oct 29, 2007, 02:52:59 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 02:47:09 AM
[...] What is clear is that it wasn't tail rape, or rape of any kind. (other than the fact that the alien was closer to her than she would have preferred and sliding its tail up her leg.)
To a degree I agree with you about the tail-rape...but...it's fun to imagine it...also the lack of pants on her swinging bloody legs doesn't exactly point to a normal death either... ;D
I assume the death was violent to a good extent, but i really don't recall her being without pants on afterwards, the shot was so brief. It someone could post a still of that, that would be great.
(and no not because she is supposedly without pants, but because it would clarify this to some extent)
yes, ;D aliens don't have penis...i have checked all the action figures and i don't have found anyone...so it is
anyway guys... We're on an express elevator to hell; going down! :P
She got boned by an alien tail.
Quote from: Hybrid PM on Oct 29, 2007, 02:58:19 AM
She got boned by an alien tail.
if thinking that is how you get your jollies, so be it. But that did not seriously happen, and if it did, there's no semen coming out of the tail, so it would be no different than impaling her through the chest as far as the alien is concerned.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 03:00:51 AM
Quote from: Hybrid PM on Oct 29, 2007, 02:58:19 AM
She got boned by an alien tail.
if thinking that is how you get your jollies, so be it. But that did not seriously happen, and if it did, there's no semen coming out of the tail, so it would be no different than impaling her through the chest as far as the alien is concerned.
Lol na im just messin around, what most likely happend was that she got impalied, but its interesting though Lambert was making all of those heart renching noises as ripley was running down the ship. If it was just an impail it would have been a quick shreek, it sounded like she was getting raped.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 02:54:59 AM
I assume the death was violent to a good extent, but i really don't recall her being without pants on afterwards, the shot was so brief. It someone could post a still of that, that would be great.
(and no not because she is supposedly without pants, but because it would clarify this to some extent)
I wish I could find an image but I can't, I tried...but it's there, the camera is foucusing on Parkers dead body but swinging in frame are Lambert's bare legs covered in blood...
Also there was a scene in the script that had Ripley and Lambert discussing who on the ship they were fu<king...I don't remember it well but it had something to the effect of Lambert saying she's been banging Kane and Ripley saying she wasn't sure if she wanted to pork Dallas...it might have explained the rape scene had it been in, being that the alien emerged from Kane and she said she banged him...possibly the alien saw some familiarity in Lambert when it cornered her...but anyway it was never really touched upon in the film, but it is interesting nonetheless...
Ya, I know what shot you are talking about. You see bare legs hanging in the foreground of Parker's corpse.
This whole thing is getting a little comical in how redundant it is. On a somewhat different note...
SiL, I am not aware of any social insects that can produce a new queen in the event of the original's death. From my understanding, when the queen dies the colony follows suit, which is why her protection is so vital. Obviously this has little to do with aliens, but if you can't cite some data on an insect that can do that I will have to assume you were talking out your arse.
Also, you mention there are animals that have three seperate ways to reproduce. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is the hydra which can reproduce sexually, regenerate, or reproduce by budding. I'm glad you mentioned that because I had to sit and think for some time about what you may have been referring to. It's been a long time since a forum poster actually made me THINK! Are there any more?
Anyway, I think what this will all boil down to is, sadly, opinions. Some people will like it and some won't. SiL, you are a fan of eggmorphing and I choose to not acknowledge it. There are many others who feel the same two ways we do. I'm sure the same will happen with this new (bad) idea. Some will like it, others will hate it. The only difference here will be that this process won't exist in a deleted scene... it will be put on screen in such a way that no one will be able to debate it. Ugh.
Which is exactly why things like a new reproducing cycle are such a mind field for directors to walk over, some will like it, others will really hate it. For the Strausses, I think since they are somewhat new to directing a huge movie like this, they should not have chosen this idea to be on screen since it is already getting such mixed reactions.
There's exactly a lot interesting info in this thread about the aliens. That I never even thought about.
Sil we may not see eye to eye, but you know your alien backwards and forwards.
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Oct 29, 2007, 03:29:46 AM
SiL, I am not aware of any social insects that can produce a new queen in the event of the original's death.
Ants, for one. When the Queen dies in any hive structure, she's simply replaced. It's more up to
you to prove that the rest of the hive dies, cos I've never once heard that in regards to
any hive structured organism. And I just looked it up quickly, too - No mention of the hives just dropping dead when queeny dies.
QuoteAlso, you mention there are animals that have three seperate ways to reproduce. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is the hydra which can reproduce sexually, regenerate, or reproduce by budding.
Actually, that makes two then - Didn't know of that guy. The one I was thinking of could reproduce asexually, sexually, and could 'store' its young in poor conditions to hatch when the conditions were just right. Can't for the life of me remember their name, though - They're a sub-species of water-dwelling animal.
QuoteThe only difference here will be that this process won't exist in a deleted scene... it will be put on screen in such a way that no one will be able to debate it. Ugh.
Well shit, if the Bros can ignore the giant close up of the Alien Queen being born in
Alien 3, not to mention the preceding half hour of Ripley going "I'VE GOT A QUEEN IN ME WOE KILL ME PLZ!!!!", I hardly think this bullcrap idea's going to make it much past this one movie.
SiL, i'm really too lazy to go back a couple pages and see this, but do you LIKE or DISLIKE this idea?
Hate it.
Rape isn't always sexual. Unwanted touching can constitute rape. Forcing a person to reveal information they didn't want to can be the same thing.
Its the invasion of physical or mental privacy.
When Scott implies rape in Alien, I think its less along the lines of sexual malice, and more along the lines the creature was simply doing something it wasn't suppossed to do.
Ok, because no one else has. Here the photos from "Alien"
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fxs220.xs.to%2Fxs220%2F07441%2Ffoot.jpg.xs.jpg&hash=6d21c16a669f54e8df1ee3a219b5258dc1d1228f) (http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs220&d=07441&f=foot.jpg)
Sorry its a lil blury, but the fact remains not only is she not wearing pants anymore, the Alien stole her shoes and socks as well.
and for grins
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fxs220.xs.to%2Fxs220%2F07441%2Ftail.jpg.xs.jpg&hash=13de0c03521c60c204251ccb44760bf0e35db606) (http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs220&d=07441&f=tail.jpg)
I don't like it either.
To me though its more the fact they thought, "Hey we can pull something out of thin air because there is nothing to contradict it!" (which isn't the case)
That opens up to much for future movies to take to many creative liberties. I'm telling you, talking weapon holding xenomorphs with heatseeking inner jaws are in our future.
And hey as laughable as it sounds, only the heat sinking inner jaw hasn't appeared in the eu yet. The tackier you allow something to get, the tackier it will become.
Wow, I think the posts on this site speculating about Lambert`s possible "rape" by the Alien in Ridley Scott`s film have fell way off the mark!!
This topic was discussed extensively in magazines at the time-"StarBurst", "Fangoria" and there was a documentary and a book on the making of "Alien" that dealt with the film's recurring sexual themes:
the creature`s extending tongue, Ash forcing the magazine down Ripley`s throat, the white liquid ejaculating from the malfunctioning Ash and the slow tail-up-the-leg shot along with the off-camera audio of Lambert`s drawn-out death.
I think people are so far off in speculations here from the actual origins of this creature.
It`s initial life-cycle, behaviour and sexual connections are ALL from the minds of H.R. Giger, Dan O`Bannon and Ridley Scott. HR Giger`s art has EXTREME sexual overtones; it was his 'Necronomicon' image that caught Ridley`s imagination and prompted this brilliant creature design to be adopted but it was always made clear, in the behind-the-scenes material of "Alien", that the film`s visceral, sexual undertones where deliberately employed by the writer/director to draw the audience into the bizarre human/alien reproductive system-to illustrate the grotesque perversion of the human life-cycle that the creature appeared to use. Not indicative of the creature actually going so far as to rape someone(!!!).
And to clear things up, the creature was apparently, according to the literature from the studio at the time, capable of suppressing it`s prey with it`s tail.
The Alien would use the tail to sting and paralyse the victim in the back and also to secure the victim whilst the creature chose to kill and ingest or initiate a life-cycle with the victim instead.
Lambert`s demise was a product of dramatic movie directing to make the creature seem even more mysterious, sinister and ferocious when actually it was slowly sliding it`s tail up between her legs to impale and poison her in the back.
For all we know she could have been another egg-sac victim left there by the Alien as it sought out other crew members to suppress!
I sort of hope the next Alien film either contradicts this or doesn't address it at all. The AVP film franchise is really starting to convolute the life cycle with a mix of what-if's and semi-canon comic stuff that really marginalizes things.
What happen to the times when these were just mystery creatures and we didn't have to have everything fed to us?
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 29, 2007, 04:38:24 AM
I sort of hope the next Alien film either contradicts this or doesn't address it at all.
i am wishing for this as well.
keep this shitty idea contained and quarantined in its own little world and hopefully any future AVP and
especially Alien movies will ignore it completely, if they are even made.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 04:10:20 AM
Well shit, if the Bros can ignore the giant close up of the Alien Queen being born in Alien 3, not to mention the preceding half hour of Ripley going "I'VE GOT A QUEEN IN ME WOE KILL ME PLZ!!!!", I hardly think this bullcrap idea's going to make it much past this one movie.
I think it will, because the audience would be mostly made up of people who don't try to make the entire series fit together.
A future writer who knows what they're doing, however, is going to face a really difficult task when it comes to, say, how to introduce a Queen, for instance.
"OK, we can put an egg in there, but... Wait. We can shape-shift an adult, too, right? No! Wait! What's the difference? There's gotta' be... Let me just consult the Internet to see if anyone's... Um... Oh... Right... Everybody else is lost, too. F**k it. I know... I'll invent a new cycle, too! Hello? Fox? Yeah, I've got this crazy new idea. It's to do with spores... And maybe a wooden planet."
The spirits of gilted Alien 3 writers have teamed up with the ghost of Kenner to give us this movie, I swear. That, and a liberal dose of Aliens fanboyism.
Why don't we just accept that aliens constantly evolve? They can create new reproductive systems if they have to. Maybe some aliens don't.
I don't really care about it that much anymore. Yes, it contradicts egg morphing and natural born queens to a large degree. But all I want is a good movie, not something bogged down in continuity. It is good if they respect it, but continuity's already been thrown out the window with aliens being on earth, anyway.
An Alien 5 with no Ripley, no Queen, a single Alien, as directed by Cronenberg...if I get at least one of those, maybe what's turning out to be a bit of an Alien overdose can fade away.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 05:06:31 AMWhy don't we just accept that aliens constantly evolve? They can create new reproductive systems if they have to. Maybe some aliens don't.
When you start making too many methods, you come up to a Eric Red sized issue where the reproduction method just turns into a mess. That's not making the Alien a survivor or multi-faceted. It's making a timeless creature even more bogged down by what will probably turn up in many reviews as a ridiculed addition to the life cycle.
QuoteI don't really care about it that much anymore. Yes, it contradicts egg morphing and natural born queens to a large degree. But all I want is a good movie, not something bogged down in continuity. It is good if they respect it, but continuity's already been thrown out the window with aliens being on earth, anyway.
And that's why, unfortunately, I don't feel as if I need to go see this film to understand how it fits into the previous films. And that's a damn shame, because that's what it's been marketed as for a long time now.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 05:06:31 AM
Why don't we just accept that aliens constantly evolve? They can create new reproductive systems if they have to. Maybe some aliens don't.
I don't really care about it that much anymore. Yes, it contradicts egg morphing and natural born queens to a large degree. But all I want is a good movie, not something bogged down in continuity. It is good if they respect it, but continuity's already been thrown out the window with aliens being on earth, anyway.
Well said I agree 100% :D
I'm surprised they didn't go for Gibson's air-born spores.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 05:06:31 AM
Why don't we just accept that aliens constantly evolve?
Because...
QuoteYes, it contradicts egg morphing and natural born queens to a large degree.
If this film suddenly brought to light that Predators don't fly through space, but instead slip between dimensions, just as big an outcry would be heard and for very good reason.
QuoteBut all I want is a good movie, not something bogged down in continuity.
Hey, the same here. But we probably wouldn't even be having this debate if the directors had not been trying so hard to impress upon us how they would never dare to drift away from everything gone before.
One good thing to come out of all this is that they're probably making a feature for the DVD, right now, documenting the legendary 100-page+ shitstorm it caused upon AVP Galaxy. :)
C'mon... You just
know they've mentioned SiL in the commentary. Probably multiple times.
I actually have a bet going on that with a few people. I could be a very poor person next year if I get a mention ;D
As for the 'Who cares about continuity' argument, just go look at the EU. That's what happens when you stop trying to make everything work together harmoniously. It gets real stupid real fast.
Re: Continuity. Nevermind the EU - do we really want this to become the next Highlander?
(Possibly too late)
Quote from: SM on Oct 29, 2007, 05:29:09 AM(Possibly too late)
"Possibly"? I'm surprised we haven't seen signs of royal jelly yet.
Aliens already changed everything - introduce a Queen, turning the aliens into mindless bugs. The first Alien was never made with Queens in mind because the xeno's actions don't make sense entirely if it was trying to make a Queen and not just more xenos. But Aliens is such a great movie that it doesn't matter so much.
If the Bros can make a really good movie - good characters, plot, script, style, music, etc.. Then the whole barfing thing and the designs won't matter so much.
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 29, 2007, 05:30:31 AM
Quote from: SM on Oct 29, 2007, 05:29:09 AM(Possibly too late)
"Possibly"? I'm surprised we haven't seen signs of royal jelly yet.
Royal jelly is probably better than queen morphing. I mean, bees do it so it must be good.
Yeah, Killer Space Bees FTW!!!!
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 05:13:15 AM
I'm surprised they didn't go for Gibson's air-born spores.
This may sound weird, but I actually liked that script. While I'm well aware it wouldn't make a good Aliens movie, I think it'd be a decent sci fi movie in itself.
With some rework done of course.
QuoteYeah, Killer Space Bees FTW!!!!
Woohoo, Futurama!
Quote from: Noir-Gojira on Oct 29, 2007, 05:53:18 AM
QuoteYeah, Killer Space Bees FTW!!!!
Woohoo, Futurama!
We really need an "all revealed to be a hallucination" ending to this anyway.
With Chuck Norris narration.
hmmm. it seems this idea is not new at all. interesting read can be found here:
http://www.serenadawn.com/Alien-TheCollectedEssays.htm
similar to the anchorpoint essays, really bound up in intense technical jargon, but it seems this line of thinking/theories on alien reproduction might indeed be where this idea came from. It also might contradict the way in which its being done in the film, i will have to read further and try to make sense of it all.
edit:
apparently its based on one unknown source, one of the comics and the anchorpoint essay, (its the old link however which doesn't work), all can be regarded as speculative and for the most part non-canon, however, i was not aware of any speculation involving the queen and any other reproductive cycles or development. This may mean the strausses may not have pulled the idea out of their asses but it still doesn't make it canon.
I'm not sure i fully understand the "spore theory" that well in some regards due to the technical jargon, mentioned earlier, but it does seem to imply that the queen can do something else if her egg sac becomes damaged. That is a little different from saying a young queen vomits something, but maybe the "yolk" they are talking about is what is vomits into people in avp-r. However, because of the contradictions to the behavior of the alien in the first and third films, even if properly explained and argued in somewhat of a non-arbitrary matter, it still seems like a non-canon idea to me.
here may be the best argument for a queen reproducing in any way other than egg sac. I hope it is not used against me later in the thread. lol. so don't even try. Also, i don't think the vomit is the intention, this could be the attempt to make sense of the egg morphing however. but anyway:
" Finally, it might be that prior to metamorphosis into a queen, each imago implants a host with a spore in this manner. It is likely that the queen becomes immobile once her egg production organs mature, and it would be difficult for her to obtain sufficient nutrients and hosts to establish a nest were she alone. If the imago prepared a second host in addition to the one it had implanted with a spore, the new queen would be assured of having at least one adult who could function in obtaining nutrients for the generation of her eggs and hosts for larval implantation. "
another edit. okay that is definitely a way of trying to explain the egg morphing. What it means by preparing two hosts is simply this: one with the spore that turns them into the egg, and the other to be used as a host for the facehugger, hence dallas and brett. This does seem to argue for the molting however, but upon reading no such vomiting ability is actually present. The molting can still be regarded as fan speculation, nothing more and we are right back where we started from, minus some info on how egg morphing might make a little more sense than previously thought.
^That makes sense but the Strauses still haven't confirmed whether or not Chet was born a Queen.
Aliens should lay eggs ... so sad they've changed the alien's life cycle :-\
no matter if they are predaliens, hulkaliens, animaliens, etc they should lay eggs!
:-[
Quotehence dallas and brett.
There's a slight difference between Dallas and Brett in the film and the novelisation. In the novelisation, Brett = egg and Dallas = host. From this I (and countless others over the years) came to the conclusion this is how Queens could be created.
In the film however they're both being egged.
Quote from: SM on Oct 29, 2007, 06:31:15 AM
Quotehence dallas and brett.
There's a slight difference between Dallas and Brett in the film and the novelisation. In the novelisation, Brett = egg and Dallas = host. From this I (and countless others over the years) came to the conclusion this is how Queens could be created.
In the film however they're both being egged.
I never said they were the same. The intentions most likely were that they were both being turned into eggs. But for the sake of any arguments for the egg morphing theory, that makes no f**king sense. You need a host for the facehugger.
Ya mean like Ripley?
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 06:21:40 AM
^That makes sense but the Strauses still haven't confirmed whether or not Chet was born a Queen.
He clearly said that this regurgitation cycle is a process all young Queens go through. How did he not confirm it already?
He pretty much confirmed it's moulting by trying to say that the original drone in the Hadley's hope colony turned into a Queen.
Damned Aliens fanboys. Two Avp films - Directors who like Aliens - Two films thta f**k with the Aliens for no good reason - Coincidence? I think not.
After reading some more its clear, this does not support the vomiting of a chestburster embryo. Only egg morphing done by a queen who is just about to enter the immobile egg laying phase or after the egg laying sac is damaged.
The "pseudo-host" is merely the empty goo or "yolk" that the egg laying sac produces. Inside her body is the "spore", the same thing that she uses to egg morph someone. In a normal egg laying process this spore naturally travels to the available space in the yolk where it will fit and form a normal egg that we all know and love.
The egg morphing, is merely when that spore is placed in a person's body, and it duplicates the conditions in which it would normally grow in the yolk, and instead of forming an egg in the egg laying sac, it does so in the person's body. Since the egg is fairly big, the amount of tissue replaced by the "yolk" and "spore" engulf the host from the inside out.
However it is clear the queen only does this once, as a way of ensuring that she will have an alien to help cocoon her to the walls and ceiling(the egg laying tube i should say) and grab hosts for th eggs, in which the process will snowball, getting more adult aliens to keep looking for hosts.
It is not capable of putting chestburster embryos in people however. The spore is merely part of what creates the egg. The yolk being the seperate, other component.
A facehugger is the only thing that creates the embryo of a chestburster, it being a unique part of the lifecycle, that serves only as the ovipositor, or the means in which to implant embryos in the host. So in terms of functionality and efficiency, the egg morphing does not trump the facehugger. So it does not negate it or make that part of the lifecycle obsolete.
isn't reading just grand. lol.
I know appreciate the egg morph theory a little bit more. As its not based on bullshit, like some other theories (vomiting a chestburste embryo, or goo which will create one)
QuoteBut for the sake of any arguments for the egg morphing theory, that makes no f**king sense.
Oh so we'll just ignore the other four crew members - three of which would've done just nicely...
::)
QuoteHe pretty much confirmed it's moulting by trying to say that the original drone in the Hadley's hope colony turned into a Queen.
Which is made up anyway.
"In my Version of the Alien life cycle, the infestation of the colony would proceed like this:
1. Russ Jorden attacked, they radio for rescue.
2. Rescue party investigates ship...seveal members facehugged...brought back to base for treatment.
3. Several "chestbursters" free themselves from hosts, escape into ducting, begin to grow.
4. Extrapolating from entomology (ants, termites, etc.), an immature female, one of the first to emerge from hosts, grows to become a new queen, while males become drones or warriors. Subsequent female larvae remain dormant or are killed by males...or biochemically sense that that a queen exists and change into males to limit waste. The Queen locates a nesting spot (the warmth of the atmosphere station heat exchanger level being perfect for egg incubation) and becomes sedentary. She is then tended by the males as her abdomen swells into a distended egg sac. The drones and warriors also secrete a resionous building material to line the structure, creating niches in which they may lie dormant when food supplies and/or hosts for further reproduction become depleted. (i.e. when all the colonists are used up). They are discovered in this condition by the troopers, but quickly emerge when the new hosts present themselves. " - James Cameron, 1986. The closest you'll get to an 'official' version of events at the colony. Nowt about barfing.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 06:37:45 AM
Ya mean like Ripley?
she could have been, but she wasn't nabbed, so this essay in hindsight argues that two hosts are usually grabbed by an alien about to molt into a queen. One to form the egg containing a facehugger and one to have the facehugger impregnate. These hosts are grabbed in farily close succession to one another, as the queen intends to then settle down and finish the process of reaching full maturity.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 06:37:45 AM
Ya mean like Ripley?
The alien didn't seem to care about Ripley until Ripley started threatening it.
Didn't seem too interested in Brett until he blundered into it. Ditto Dallas.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 06:50:06 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 06:37:45 AM
Ya mean like Ripley?
she could have been, but she wasn't nabbed, so this essay in hindsight argues that two hosts are usually grabbed by an alien about to molt into a queen. One to form the egg containing a facehugger and one to have the facehugger impregnate. These hosts are grabbed in farily close succession to one another, as the queen intends to then settle down and finish the process of reaching full maturity.
What it was born a Queen - why would the Queen egg morph if she could just lay eggs?
Quote from: SM on Oct 29, 2007, 06:54:30 AM
Didn't seem too interested in Brett until he blundered into it. Ditto Dallas.
Yeah but there's good evidence the alien was still molting then.
EDIT: Actually, no, it seems the alien did attack Brett and Dallas. It just didn't do so right away for some reason. Not like the molting alien in Alien 3 and Murphy.
"In my Version of the Alien life cycle, the infestation of the colony would proceed like this:
1. Russ Jorden attacked, they radio for rescue.
2. Rescue party investigates ship...seveal members facehugged...brought back to base for treatment.
3. Several "chestbursters" free themselves from hosts, escape into ducting, begin to grow.
4. Extrapolating from entomology (ants, termites, etc.), an immature female, one of the first to emerge from hosts, grows to become a new queen, while males become drones or warriors. Subsequent female larvae remain dormant or are killed by males...or biochemically sense that that a queen exists and change into males to limit waste. The Queen locates a nesting spot (the warmth of the atmosphere station heat exchanger level being perfect for egg incubation) and becomes sedentary. She is then tended by the males as her abdomen swells into a distended egg sac. The drones and warriors also secrete a resionous building material to line the structure, creating niches in which they may lie dormant when food supplies and/or hosts for further reproduction become depleted. (i.e. when all the colonists are used up). They are discovered in this condition by the troopers, but quickly emerge when the new hosts present themselves. "
- James Cameron, 1986. The closest you'll get to an 'official' version of events at the colony. Nowt about barfing.
That makes sense. pretty offiicial and no egg morphing nor barfing. Yet it does seem that james camerson supports the molting into a queen aspect. Then again, this was before alien 3 or the queen facehugger(only in the special edition) so how could he have known about that?
The idea that queens were born as chestbursters hadn't yet emerged, just as the queen idea hadn't emerged yet in alien, but afterwards, it is still canon. Therefore the queen molting, because it contradicts subsequent films regarding queen creation, it can be regarded non-canon or at the very least, speculative at best.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 06:56:28 AMYeah but there's good evidence the alien was still molting then.
Uh...que? Now we need to retcon Alien to explain this?
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 29, 2007, 06:59:01 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 06:56:28 AMYeah but there's good evidence the alien was still molting then.
Uh...que? Now we need to retcon Alien to explain this?
I modified that post.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 06:55:08 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 06:50:06 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 06:37:45 AM
Ya mean like Ripley?
she could have been, but she wasn't nabbed, so this essay in hindsight argues that two hosts are usually grabbed by an alien about to molt into a queen. One to form the egg containing a facehugger and one to have the facehugger impregnate. These hosts are grabbed in farily close succession to one another, as the queen intends to then settle down and finish the process of reaching full maturity.
What it was born a Queen - why would the Queen egg morph if she could just lay eggs?
well.. hmm. supposely the article, website.. whatever. is making the claims, i don't necessarily support them all. But im just reporting what its theories are and apparently when the queen is about to settle down, she requires one adult alien to help feed her nutrients, cocoon her egg laying sac to the wall and ceiling of the hive and help get hosts once she is ready to lay the eggs. If she doesn't, she in an immobile state, won't be able to do those things. Implying its all instinctive and she cannot ignore the drive to settle down and grow the egg laying sac once she has reached full maturity.
And in a rare case, a backup if the egg laying sac becomes damaged. She could still reproduce, and perhaps prep the egg to carry a queen facehugger maybe. (if any viable host existed in alien 3, that didn't have a death already accounted for by something else, this would be the only viable theory as to how the egg got there in alien 3, but there are also issues with it, as we account for the whereabouts of the queen the whole time she is in the sulaco dropship and the sulaco at the end of aliens.)
i have heard the ridiculous theory that the lower half of bishop was used as material to create the egg. But then again, when did this happen, and why was it upside down as if deliberately hidden in some part of the ship, remains to be seen. I doubt the queen carried a dead victim with her from the hive and then egg morphed it in the dropship, either. lol.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 06:58:51 AM
"In my Version of the Alien life cycle, the infestation of the colony would proceed like this:
1. Russ Jorden attacked, they radio for rescue.
2. Rescue party investigates ship...seveal members facehugged...brought back to base for treatment.
3. Several "chestbursters" free themselves from hosts, escape into ducting, begin to grow.
4. Extrapolating from entomology (ants, termites, etc.), an immature female, one of the first to emerge from hosts, grows to become a new queen, while males become drones or warriors. Subsequent female larvae remain dormant or are killed by males...or biochemically sense that that a queen exists and change into males to limit waste. The Queen locates a nesting spot (the warmth of the atmosphere station heat exchanger level being perfect for egg incubation) and becomes sedentary. She is then tended by the males as her abdomen swells into a distended egg sac. The drones and warriors also secrete a resionous building material to line the structure, creating niches in which they may lie dormant when food supplies and/or hosts for further reproduction become depleted. (i.e. when all the colonists are used up). They are discovered in this condition by the troopers, but quickly emerge when the new hosts present themselves. "
- James Cameron, 1986. The closest you'll get to an 'official' version of events at the colony. Nowt about barfing.
That makes sense. pretty offiicial and no egg morphing nor barfing. Yet it does seem that james camerson supports the molting into a queen aspect. Then again, this was before alien 3 or the queen facehugger(only in the special edition) so how could he have known about that?
The idea that queens were born as chestbursters hadn't yet emerged, just as the queen idea hadn't emerged yet in alien, but afterwards, it is still canon. Therefore the queen molting, because it contradicts subsequent films regarding queen creation, it can be regarded non-canon or at the very least, speculative at best.
I only saw maybe 6 facehuggers in medlab. Two were alive, and one was removed before embryo implantation. So, you maybe have one Queen and two drones. If this was enough to build the hive - ?
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 07:05:11 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 06:55:08 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 06:50:06 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 06:37:45 AM
Ya mean like Ripley?
she could have been, but she wasn't nabbed, so this essay in hindsight argues that two hosts are usually grabbed by an alien about to molt into a queen. One to form the egg containing a facehugger and one to have the facehugger impregnate. These hosts are grabbed in farily close succession to one another, as the queen intends to then settle down and finish the process of reaching full maturity.
What it was born a Queen - why would the Queen egg morph if she could just lay eggs?
well.. hmm. supposely the article, website.. whatever. is making the claims, i don't necessarily support them all. But im just reporting what its theories are and apparently when the queen is about to settle down, she requires one adult alien to help feed her nutrients, cocoon her egg laying sac to the wall and ceiling of the hive and help get hosts once she is ready to lay the eggs. If she doesn't, she in an immobile state, won't be able to do those things. Implying its all instinctive and she cannot ignore the drive to settle down and grow the egg laying sac once she has reached full maturity.
And in a rare case, a backup if the egg laying sac becomes damaged. She could still reproduce, and perhaps prep the egg to carry a queen facehugger maybe. (if any viable host existed in alien 3, that didn't have a death already accounted for by something else, this would be the only viable theory as to how the egg got there in alien 3, but there are also issues with it, as we account for the whereabouts of the queen the whole time she is in the sulaco dropship and the sulaco at the end of aliens.)
Well hang on.. does the Queen need her egg sac to make eggs or what? Alien 3 seems to say no, but we don't know how those eggs got there.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 07:06:01 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 06:58:51 AM
"In my Version of the Alien life cycle, the infestation of the colony would proceed like this:
1. Russ Jorden attacked, they radio for rescue.
2. Rescue party investigates ship...seveal members facehugged...brought back to base for treatment.
3. Several "chestbursters" free themselves from hosts, escape into ducting, begin to grow.
4. Extrapolating from entomology (ants, termites, etc.), an immature female, one of the first to emerge from hosts, grows to become a new queen, while males become drones or warriors. Subsequent female larvae remain dormant or are killed by males...or biochemically sense that that a queen exists and change into males to limit waste. The Queen locates a nesting spot (the warmth of the atmosphere station heat exchanger level being perfect for egg incubation) and becomes sedentary. She is then tended by the males as her abdomen swells into a distended egg sac. The drones and warriors also secrete a resionous building material to line the structure, creating niches in which they may lie dormant when food supplies and/or hosts for further reproduction become depleted. (i.e. when all the colonists are used up). They are discovered in this condition by the troopers, but quickly emerge when the new hosts present themselves. "
- James Cameron, 1986. The closest you'll get to an 'official' version of events at the colony. Nowt about barfing.
That makes sense. pretty offiicial and no egg morphing nor barfing. Yet it does seem that james camerson supports the molting into a queen aspect. Then again, this was before alien 3 or the queen facehugger(only in the special edition) so how could he have known about that?
The idea that queens were born as chestbursters hadn't yet emerged, just as the queen idea hadn't emerged yet in alien, but afterwards, it is still canon. Therefore the queen molting, because it contradicts subsequent films regarding queen creation, it can be regarded non-canon or at the very least, speculative at best.
I only saw maybe 6 facehuggers in medlab. Two were alive, and one was removed before embryo implantation. So, you maybe have one Queen and two drones. If this was enough to build the hive - ?
enough to start it off, where the queen is. It most likely expands outward, as opposed to the entire thing is built from the starting point where the marines entered. Its enough aliens to help with her egg laying sac and grab hosts and move an egg near them. Once more aliens burst from them. You then have more aliens to help construct more of the hive and get more hosts.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 07:06:01 AM
I only saw maybe 6 facehuggers in medlab. Two were alive, and one was removed before embryo implantation. So, you maybe have one Queen and two drones. If this was enough to build the hive - ?
That might be just what facehuggers were captured, not a definitive number of initial facehuggers from the group sent out to rescue Newt's family and investigate the Derelict.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 07:09:04 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 07:05:11 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 06:55:08 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 06:50:06 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 06:37:45 AM
Ya mean like Ripley?
she could have been, but she wasn't nabbed, so this essay in hindsight argues that two hosts are usually grabbed by an alien about to molt into a queen. One to form the egg containing a facehugger and one to have the facehugger impregnate. These hosts are grabbed in farily close succession to one another, as the queen intends to then settle down and finish the process of reaching full maturity.
What it was born a Queen - why would the Queen egg morph if she could just lay eggs?
well.. hmm. supposely the article, website.. whatever. is making the claims, i don't necessarily support them all. But im just reporting what its theories are and apparently when the queen is about to settle down, she requires one adult alien to help feed her nutrients, cocoon her egg laying sac to the wall and ceiling of the hive and help get hosts once she is ready to lay the eggs. If she doesn't, she in an immobile state, won't be able to do those things. Implying its all instinctive and she cannot ignore the drive to settle down and grow the egg laying sac once she has reached full maturity.
And in a rare case, a backup if the egg laying sac becomes damaged. She could still reproduce, and perhaps prep the egg to carry a queen facehugger maybe. (if any viable host existed in alien 3, that didn't have a death already accounted for by something else, this would be the only viable theory as to how the egg got there in alien 3, but there are also issues with it, as we account for the whereabouts of the queen the whole time she is in the sulaco dropship and the sulaco at the end of aliens.)
Well hang on.. does the Queen need her egg sac to make eggs or what? Alien 3 seems to say no, but we don't know how those eggs got there.
The only way to do so without it, is to egg morph someone, as the queen apparently still would have the spores inside her body, but no yolk, or natural "pseudo host" to have them naturally integrate with one another in the egg sac. The loss of the egg sac doesn't mean, she loses the internal spores. But i doubt she has that many as clearly one egg can be layed at a time while others are being prepped inside the sac. She can't just lay the spore and have it leave her body through the opening in which the egg laying sac was connected to, since its only half the egg. The same way a sperm is only half what will become a zygote.
A gross analogy woud be if you cut someone's penis off. They wouldn't stop producing sperm in the testicles, but there's no delivery system anymore. lol. But if the sperm was still extracted and used in invitro fertilization it would work just fine. (sorry, but its the closest way to explain such a foreign concept)
Quote from: Fitzley on Oct 29, 2007, 07:12:30 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 07:06:01 AM
I only saw maybe 6 facehuggers in medlab. Two were alive, and one was removed before embryo implantation. So, you maybe have one Queen and two drones. If this was enough to build the hive - ?
That might be just what facehuggers were captured, not a definitive number of initial facehuggers from the group sent out to rescue Newt's family and investigate the Derelict.
no im sure its the number from the group. As everyone that got facehugged would be brought to medical. I doubt they would leave anyone behind. The dead ones and the ones which they killed people while trying to get them off are present. So they sent five people out to check apparently, as one would have died and fallen of of newt's dad. (unless that one is not counted, but im sure it is, as they would want to study it. It wouldn't get far before dying.
well actually i suppose they could have sent more, but we're talking at least 4 or 5 of them were facehugged.
Quote from: Fitzley on Oct 29, 2007, 07:12:30 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 07:06:01 AM
I only saw maybe 6 facehuggers in medlab. Two were alive, and one was removed before embryo implantation. So, you maybe have one Queen and two drones. If this was enough to build the hive - ?
That might be just what facehuggers were captured, not a definitive number of initial facehuggers from the group sent out to rescue Newt's family and investigate the Derelict.
They only captured two. The others they would have gotten off the hosts after it came off like with Kane.
If they captured more - why would'nt Burke use them against the rest?
Here, you can clearly see there are 6 facehuggers - allowing for only 3 aliens to have been born initially:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb290%2FBartleby24%2Faliens2.jpg&hash=b7033f1399729f8c9a202e05c9f9857bc6d84d4e)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb290%2FBartleby24%2Faliens1.jpg&hash=8ffd04d19b1db4633c6fa1646bfae8cd5710a0e5)
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 07:26:16 AM
Quote from: Fitzley on Oct 29, 2007, 07:12:30 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 07:06:01 AM
I only saw maybe 6 facehuggers in medlab. Two were alive, and one was removed before embryo implantation. So, you maybe have one Queen and two drones. If this was enough to build the hive - ?
That might be just what facehuggers were captured, not a definitive number of initial facehuggers from the group sent out to rescue Newt's family and investigate the Derelict.
They only captured two. The others they would have gotten off the hosts after it came off like with Kane.
If they captured more - why would'nt Burke use them against the rest?
Here, you can clearly see there are 6 facehuggers - allowing for only 3 aliens to have been born initially:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb290%2FBartleby24%2Faliens2.jpg&hash=b7033f1399729f8c9a202e05c9f9857bc6d84d4e)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb290%2FBartleby24%2Faliens1.jpg&hash=8ffd04d19b1db4633c6fa1646bfae8cd5710a0e5)
whos to say the dead ones, didn't implant embryos in people, but were kept for study? We only know that two facehuggers hadn't implanted embryos yet. The one removed before embryo implantation in which they killed the guy taking it off, is indeed one of the two live ones. The rest must be made up by the one that impregnated newt's dad, and then three of the people from the rescue party. So its the queen, plus three drones. Sufficient to help set up the intial process of starting the hive and grabbing, relatively defenseless colonists. The best weapons they had for small arms fire, and seismic survey charges according to the movie. So its not hard for three aliens to grab people. Even one or two could have started the process of collecting hosts, while the others tended to the queen.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 07:17:57 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 07:09:04 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 07:05:11 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 06:55:08 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 06:50:06 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 06:37:45 AM
Ya mean like Ripley?
she could have been, but she wasn't nabbed, so this essay in hindsight argues that two hosts are usually grabbed by an alien about to molt into a queen. One to form the egg containing a facehugger and one to have the facehugger impregnate. These hosts are grabbed in farily close succession to one another, as the queen intends to then settle down and finish the process of reaching full maturity.
What it was born a Queen - why would the Queen egg morph if she could just lay eggs?
well.. hmm. supposely the article, website.. whatever. is making the claims, i don't necessarily support them all. But im just reporting what its theories are and apparently when the queen is about to settle down, she requires one adult alien to help feed her nutrients, cocoon her egg laying sac to the wall and ceiling of the hive and help get hosts once she is ready to lay the eggs. If she doesn't, she in an immobile state, won't be able to do those things. Implying its all instinctive and she cannot ignore the drive to settle down and grow the egg laying sac once she has reached full maturity.
And in a rare case, a backup if the egg laying sac becomes damaged. She could still reproduce, and perhaps prep the egg to carry a queen facehugger maybe. (if any viable host existed in alien 3, that didn't have a death already accounted for by something else, this would be the only viable theory as to how the egg got there in alien 3, but there are also issues with it, as we account for the whereabouts of the queen the whole time she is in the sulaco dropship and the sulaco at the end of aliens.)
Well hang on.. does the Queen need her egg sac to make eggs or what? Alien 3 seems to say no, but we don't know how those eggs got there.
The only way to do so without it, is to egg morph someone, as the queen apparently still would have the spores inside her body, but no yolk, or natural "pseudo host" to have them naturally integrate with one another in the egg sac. The loss of the egg sac doesn't mean, she loses the internal spores. But i doubt she has that many as clearly one egg can be layed at a time while others are being prepped inside the sac. She can't just lay the spore and have it leave her body through the opening in which the egg laying sac was connected to, since its only half the egg. The same way a sperm is only half what will become a zygote.
A gross analogy woud be if you cut someone's penis off. They wouldn't stop producing sperm in the testicles, but there's no delivery system anymore. lol. But if the sperm was still extracted and used in invitro fertilization it would work just fine. (sorry, but its the closest way to explain such a foreign concept)
Yeah but we can clearly see eggs in the Sulaco and the only logical way was if the Queen put them there. It would also be too much of a coincidence that one of those eggs (if there was more than one) contained a queen-facehugger if someone else put them there.
Why do we assume those were the only six huggers before all hell broke loose?
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 07:30:23 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 07:26:16 AM
Quote from: Fitzley on Oct 29, 2007, 07:12:30 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 07:06:01 AM
I only saw maybe 6 facehuggers in medlab. Two were alive, and one was removed before embryo implantation. So, you maybe have one Queen and two drones. If this was enough to build the hive - ?
That might be just what facehuggers were captured, not a definitive number of initial facehuggers from the group sent out to rescue Newt's family and investigate the Derelict.
They only captured two. The others they would have gotten off the hosts after it came off like with Kane.
If they captured more - why would'nt Burke use them against the rest?
Here, you can clearly see there are 6 facehuggers - allowing for only 3 aliens to have been born initially:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb290%2FBartleby24%2Faliens2.jpg&hash=b7033f1399729f8c9a202e05c9f9857bc6d84d4e)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb290%2FBartleby24%2Faliens1.jpg&hash=8ffd04d19b1db4633c6fa1646bfae8cd5710a0e5)
whos to say the dead ones, didn't implant embryos in people, but were kept for study? We only know that two facehuggers hadn't implanted embryos yet. The one removed before embryo implantation in which they killed the guy taking it off, is indeed one of the two live ones. The rest must be made up by the one that impregnated newt's dad, and then three of the people from the rescue party. So its the queen, plus three drones. Sufficient to help set up the intial process of starting the hive and grabbing, relatively defenseless colonists. The best weapons they had for small arms fire, and seismic survey charges according to the movie. So its not hard for three aliens to grab people. Even one or two could have started the process of collecting hosts, while the others tended to the queen.
Ok so then you have 4 aliens - 3 drones and 1 Queen. I guess that is enough to build a hive.
But what if there was only the Queen? What would a lone Queen do? That is the real question.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 07:35:10 AM
Why do we assume those were the only six huggers before all hell broke loose?
Small colony - one Operation, one Medlab.
Besides, SiL, it is you are arguing that it only takes a few aliens to start a hive. :P
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 07:30:53 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 07:17:57 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 07:09:04 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 07:05:11 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 06:55:08 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 06:50:06 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 06:37:45 AM
Ya mean like Ripley?
she could have been, but she wasn't nabbed, so this essay in hindsight argues that two hosts are usually grabbed by an alien about to molt into a queen. One to form the egg containing a facehugger and one to have the facehugger impregnate. These hosts are grabbed in farily close succession to one another, as the queen intends to then settle down and finish the process of reaching full maturity.
What it was born a Queen - why would the Queen egg morph if she could just lay eggs?
well.. hmm. supposely the article, website.. whatever. is making the claims, i don't necessarily support them all. But im just reporting what its theories are and apparently when the queen is about to settle down, she requires one adult alien to help feed her nutrients, cocoon her egg laying sac to the wall and ceiling of the hive and help get hosts once she is ready to lay the eggs. If she doesn't, she in an immobile state, won't be able to do those things. Implying its all instinctive and she cannot ignore the drive to settle down and grow the egg laying sac once she has reached full maturity.
And in a rare case, a backup if the egg laying sac becomes damaged. She could still reproduce, and perhaps prep the egg to carry a queen facehugger maybe. (if any viable host existed in alien 3, that didn't have a death already accounted for by something else, this would be the only viable theory as to how the egg got there in alien 3, but there are also issues with it, as we account for the whereabouts of the queen the whole time she is in the sulaco dropship and the sulaco at the end of aliens.)
Well hang on.. does the Queen need her egg sac to make eggs or what? Alien 3 seems to say no, but we don't know how those eggs got there.
The only way to do so without it, is to egg morph someone, as the queen apparently still would have the spores inside her body, but no yolk, or natural "pseudo host" to have them naturally integrate with one another in the egg sac. The loss of the egg sac doesn't mean, she loses the internal spores. But i doubt she has that many as clearly one egg can be layed at a time while others are being prepped inside the sac. She can't just lay the spore and have it leave her body through the opening in which the egg laying sac was connected to, since its only half the egg. The same way a sperm is only half what will become a zygote.
A gross analogy woud be if you cut someone's penis off. They wouldn't stop producing sperm in the testicles, but there's no delivery system anymore. lol. But if the sperm was still extracted and used in invitro fertilization it would work just fine. (sorry, but its the closest way to explain such a foreign concept)
Yeah but we can clearly see eggs in the Sulaco and the only logical way was if the Queen put them there. It would also be too much of a coincidence that one of those eggs (if there was more than one) contained a queen-facehugger if someone else put them there.
well, theres only one egg first of all. Really not allowing for anything but the queen facehugger scenario. Plus yes the queen had to put it there for it be a queen egg or it would just be too convenient. Its just a mystery how it got there. Now if the queen doesn't need organic matter to combine with the spore taking the place of the "pseudo-spore" or yolk that would normally combine with it in the egg sac, i suppose you could say the queen used something else to create the egg. But i think it stretches believability a little too much.
Its just poor writing that lead to the unexplained egg onboard the sulaco. You'd have to believe that the queen escaped to some other part of the sulaco while we thought she was hiding in the landing gear of the dropship the whole time and then managed to sneak back in. lol.
It really is unexplainable. Unless her arms for long enough to reach into the sub-flooring, like when she was reaching for newt and she placed the egg where it ended up during that time. But then again how far was that location from the dropship.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 07:39:36 AM
Small colony - one Operation, one Medlab.
That doesn't answer my question in the slightest.
QuoteBesides, SiL, it is you are arguing that it only takes a few aliens to start a hive. :P
And you're trying to throw in a host of other crap to try and disprove it, so I'm adapting to your argument. ;)
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 07:36:49 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 07:30:23 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 07:26:16 AM
Quote from: Fitzley on Oct 29, 2007, 07:12:30 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 07:06:01 AM
I only saw maybe 6 facehuggers in medlab. Two were alive, and one was removed before embryo implantation. So, you maybe have one Queen and two drones. If this was enough to build the hive - ?
That might be just what facehuggers were captured, not a definitive number of initial facehuggers from the group sent out to rescue Newt's family and investigate the Derelict.
They only captured two. The others they would have gotten off the hosts after it came off like with Kane.
If they captured more - why would'nt Burke use them against the rest?
Here, you can clearly see there are 6 facehuggers - allowing for only 3 aliens to have been born initially:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb290%2FBartleby24%2Faliens2.jpg&hash=b7033f1399729f8c9a202e05c9f9857bc6d84d4e)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb290%2FBartleby24%2Faliens1.jpg&hash=8ffd04d19b1db4633c6fa1646bfae8cd5710a0e5)
whos to say the dead ones, didn't implant embryos in people, but were kept for study? We only know that two facehuggers hadn't implanted embryos yet. The one removed before embryo implantation in which they killed the guy taking it off, is indeed one of the two live ones. The rest must be made up by the one that impregnated newt's dad, and then three of the people from the rescue party. So its the queen, plus three drones. Sufficient to help set up the intial process of starting the hive and grabbing, relatively defenseless colonists. The best weapons they had for small arms fire, and seismic survey charges according to the movie. So its not hard for three aliens to grab people. Even one or two could have started the process of collecting hosts, while the others tended to the queen.
Ok so then you have 4 aliens - 3 drones and 1 Queen. I guess that is enough to build a hive.
But what if there was only the Queen? What would a lone Queen do? That is the real question.
I think the article i mentioned and what i explained covered that. So i guess you'd have egg morphing in that scenario but by the queen and it doesn't necessarily need to be only to create a queen embryo. The article explains that the queen can prep the eggs as to create whatever was needed.
Of course she would have to egg morph hosts before she settled down to grow the egg laying tube. iIf she is in part of her cyclical egg laying phase where she needs more queens to go out and seek new hives or replace her if she is dying, she will egg morph a person, and cocoon a host for it and prep it to be a queen egg. If she needs warriors she will prep the egg created via egg morphing to create a warrior to help get more hosts.
I suppose egg morphing is undeniably essential but only if a queen is born first.
however we do not know which alien was born first. The queen could have been first, second, third or fourth. I
The queen could have been born by one of the facehuggers that happened to be a queen egg, or if a drone was first it could have grabbed hosts to egg morph and prep the egg to be a queen egg.
so you don't necessarily need the theory that one molted into a queen, unless egg morphing was not considered valid. in that case, I guess you can't deny that one molted into a queen(no im not going to lick colin's balls.. hear me out) Unless you accept the view that one of the eggs out of that got either newt's dad, or the others that went to search for him, was impregnated by a queen facehugger. But you have to void the two embryo ability, as it was invented yet, and cannot enter the mathematical equation of how many aliens should have resulted.
Damn, what a mess. lol
There are however three ways to get a queen without resorting to molting.
1. Egg morphing by a warrior to prep the egg to grow a facehugger containing a queen embryo.
2. Queen facehugger impregnates one of the colonists.
3. In the event of the queen facehugger being considered non-canon, a queen is born by a regular facehugger and never needed to be prepped by another alien.
If egg morphing and queen facehugger are regarded as non-canon. (the queen facehugger i don't think can be retroactively fitted back in Aliens where it was never intended, so i don't think its the most viable option here, and probably can't be used, but it seems more canonical than molting however.)
You still had the up to that point in the alien lore, regular facehuggers implanting people, out of a large number of eggs there would be more than one that would have facehuggers carrying queen embryos, and out of 6 facehuggers, 1 was a queen.
There could have been lots of eggs containing queen bearing facehuggers in the derelict ship, considering that they were gathered and not just laid by a queen onto the ship.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 07:42:14 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 07:39:36 AM
Small colony - one Operation, one Medlab.
That doesn't answer my question in the slightest.
Well I'm going by the evidence onscreen. It's up to you to prove there are more facehuggers around somewhere.
QuoteQuoteBesides, SiL, it is you are arguing that it only takes a few aliens to start a hive. :P
And you're trying to throw in a host of other crap to try and disprove it, so I'm adapting to your argument. ;)
I agree that 3 aliens and a Queen could start a hive.
One alien and a Queen is possible, but stretching it a little.
One Queen only - a lot more difficult to imagine.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 07:46:33 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 07:36:49 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 07:30:23 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 07:26:16 AM
Quote from: Fitzley on Oct 29, 2007, 07:12:30 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 07:06:01 AM
I only saw maybe 6 facehuggers in medlab. Two were alive, and one was removed before embryo implantation. So, you maybe have one Queen and two drones. If this was enough to build the hive - ?
That might be just what facehuggers were captured, not a definitive number of initial facehuggers from the group sent out to rescue Newt's family and investigate the Derelict.
They only captured two. The others they would have gotten off the hosts after it came off like with Kane.
If they captured more - why would'nt Burke use them against the rest?
Here, you can clearly see there are 6 facehuggers - allowing for only 3 aliens to have been born initially:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb290%2FBartleby24%2Faliens2.jpg&hash=b7033f1399729f8c9a202e05c9f9857bc6d84d4e)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi21.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb290%2FBartleby24%2Faliens1.jpg&hash=8ffd04d19b1db4633c6fa1646bfae8cd5710a0e5)
whos to say the dead ones, didn't implant embryos in people, but were kept for study? We only know that two facehuggers hadn't implanted embryos yet. The one removed before embryo implantation in which they killed the guy taking it off, is indeed one of the two live ones. The rest must be made up by the one that impregnated newt's dad, and then three of the people from the rescue party. So its the queen, plus three drones. Sufficient to help set up the intial process of starting the hive and grabbing, relatively defenseless colonists. The best weapons they had for small arms fire, and seismic survey charges according to the movie. So its not hard for three aliens to grab people. Even one or two could have started the process of collecting hosts, while the others tended to the queen.
Ok so then you have 4 aliens - 3 drones and 1 Queen. I guess that is enough to build a hive.
But what if there was only the Queen? What would a lone Queen do? That is the real question.
I think the article i mentioned and what i explained covered that. So i guess you'd have egg morphing in that scenario but by the queen and it doesn't necessarily need to be only to create a queen embryo. The article explains that the queen can prep the eggs as to create whatever was needed.
Of course she would have to egg morph hosts before she settled down to grow the egg laying tube. iIf she is in part of her cyclical egg laying phase where she needs more queens to go out and seek new hives or replace her if she is dying, she will egg morph a person, and cocoon a host for it and prep it to be a queen egg. If she needs warriors she will prep the egg created via egg morphing to create a warrior to help get more hosts.
I suppose egg morphing is undeniably essential but only if a queen is born first.
however we do not know which alien was born first. The queen could have been first, second, third or fourth. If anything but first, egg morphing would not necessarily have had to take place to start the infestation.
Yeah but it contradicts Alien 3 that says a Queen can lay eggs without an egg sac. And in Alien 3 it was obviously two facehuggers - one to impregnate Ripley and one to impregnate the dog/ox. It wasn't the super facehugger that got Ripley because you see a normal one facehugging her.
Quote from: Colin_Strause on Oct 28, 2007, 04:46:15 AM
This must set the record for the longest thread on something no one has actually seen yet. :)
yeah, he is really right with that, when i looked yesterday in this thread, it was 55 pages long, but now^^ 120^^ pages, man thats crazy...
i want to know what thing are you discussing, but i have no lust to read over 60 pages, when there is standing every page the same, like in the 50 before....
guys, isnt it better to wait for the movie???
but on the other side^^, respect for such a thread!
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 07:49:37 AM
I agree that 3 aliens and a Queen could start a hive.
One alien and a Queen is possible, but stretching it a little.
One Queen only - a lot more difficult to imagine.
And who's to say all those huggers didn't come from the investigative team?
Someone goes out, something bad happens. More people are sent out to investigate, now armed with knowledge of what to expect to happen. They themselves get huggered, the people brought back, and all hell breaks loose not long after.
Still super facehugger is the best clue to explain Alien3. If we assume that queen can lay emergency egg, that is carying super facehugger able to implant two people, that is explaining all. But this did not appeared in TR of A3 and therfore is not canon, is it?
Going back to AvP-R. In this film there is on need for second RC, because we have got two facehuggers which will give us two drones. Two adult aliens is just enough to protect young predalien queen when she will create her own egg sack, and one of them can easily grab hosts in hospital. Place full of potential hosts. I can`t see reason for this stupid idea.
I maintain that it would only take one Queen to get things going. All it has to do is lay some eggs. Whether or not it starts physically constructing the hive material does not matter.
If an ordinary adult happens to be the one let loose, then it could egg a victim and make a Queen facehugger.
In the former, only one derelict facehugger is required. In the latter, one derelict facehugger and two extra victims.
Either way only necessitates the Jordans' to be the only ones required.
Also taking into account the atmosphere processors are fully automated; the colonists are there in case something goes wrong. There'd be little to no reason for them to go to the processor, so the Queen would have a nice neat place in the sub levels to sit around waiting to become mature enough to poop out eggs.
Well, I'd have to say that although I don't mind this new reproductive system, there have been made a lot of points against it.
I'm gonna say it is something unique to Predalien. Something in the Predator genetics prevents it from developing an egg sack, and its reproductive system functions in an entirely different way.
But IMO, egg-morphing sucks. The idea of transforming a human into an egg with a facehugger inside? Doesn't work for me at all.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 08:07:57 AM
Also taking into account the atmosphere processors are fully automated; the colonists are there in case something goes wrong. There'd be little to no reason for them to go to the processor, so the Queen would have a nice neat place in the sub levels to sit around waiting to become mature enough to poop out eggs.
Yeah but she has to go out and grab hosts, so she can't build an egg sac yet.
Quote from: Predalien warrior on Oct 29, 2007, 08:08:37 AMI'm gonna say it is something unique to Predalien. Something in the Predator genetics prevents it from developing an egg sack, and its reproductive system functions in an entirely different way.
Colin is clearly saying this is something all Queens go through, so that doesn't really hold up.
QuoteBut IMO, egg-morphing sucks. The idea of transforming a human into an egg with a facehugger inside? Doesn't work for me at all.
Why? It's an alien creature. The thing has a penis for a head. It's not as if it's making it any more weird.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 29, 2007, 08:05:31 AM
I maintain that it would only take one Queen to get things going. All it has to do is lay some eggs. Whether or not it starts physically constructing the hive material does not matter.
If an ordinary adult happens to be the one let loose, then it could egg a victim and make a Queen facehugger.
In the former, only one derelict facehugger is required. In the latter, one derelict facehugger and two extra victims.
Either way only necessitates the Jordans' to be the only ones required.
its just that the queen can't feed herself whatever nutrients aliens get, from inorganic metal or whatever by breaking it down, when she is immobile and attached to the egg laying sac. She can't delay this process or so it seems and instinctively settles down to lay eggs once she can do so, as a survival instinct.
She indeed needs at least one adult alien to attend to her and the hive.
Thus she will egg morph one person and grab one more then settle down and let the rest take its course. Which seems to contradict what we know about avp-r, as the predalien does not egg morph to get the aliens which will help tend to her and doesn't settle down to grow the egg sac, not too long afterwards as she should.
If the theories presented on this site are correct, the queen only egg morphs when she is just about ready to start growing the egg laying tube. The predalien upon completion of the egg morphed victim and presence of available host, would immediately then prep the egg to create a drone and then hide away and start the process right away.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 08:11:22 AM
Yeah but she has to go out and grab hosts, so she can't build an egg sac yet.
Or the facehuggers can simply be commanded to go and hunt down hosts, like the one in '
Alien Versus Predator'.
Or she simply lays in wait for prey to come to her. Aliens seem to have massive reserves of patience, when the situation calls for it.
In any case, she won't be completely immobile from the start. The sack doesn't need to be as massive as the fully developed one, to lay the first few.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 08:14:09 AM
its just that the queen can't feed herself whatever nutrients aliens get, from inorganic metal or whatever by breaking it down, when she is immobile and attached to the egg laying sac. She can't delay this process or so it seems and instinctively settles down to lay eggs once she can do so, as a survival instinct.
We don't even know that they eat. Even if they do, she could just grab whatever is necessary and stockpile it near her.
QuoteShe indeed needs at least one adult alien to attend to her and the hive.
Ideally, yes. Not absolutely required. The only thing might be to move eggs out of the way and prevent them building up into a mountain, but perhaps those 'roots' they grow at the base are design to pull them along, Audrey 2-like, to get out of the way.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 08:11:22 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 08:07:57 AM
Also taking into account the atmosphere processors are fully automated; the colonists are there in case something goes wrong. There'd be little to no reason for them to go to the processor, so the Queen would have a nice neat place in the sub levels to sit around waiting to become mature enough to poop out eggs.
Yeah but she has to go out and grab hosts, so she can't build an egg sac yet.
Actually she might only need one host. As i forget. Even without resorting to egg morphing, you have this scenario. She grabs a host, the host is immobile cocooned to the wall right near where she will lay the eggs. If the egg will be layed close enough to the host to open up it should be plausible.
She then lays the eggs while the host can't go anywhere and once the eggs hatch she gets a drone via chestbursting of that host.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 08:11:22 AM
Yeah but she has to go out and grab hosts, so she can't build an egg sac yet.
Not really. In any scenario, you have to take into consideration that an investigative team was sent out; it's the only way to explain how they got those face huggers in the med lab. Those people
had to be brought back to the colony, so clearly a group of people went out - Either to the derelict or the atmosphere processor, it doesn't matter.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 08:14:09 AM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 29, 2007, 08:05:31 AM
I maintain that it would only take one Queen to get things going. All it has to do is lay some eggs. Whether or not it starts physically constructing the hive material does not matter.
If an ordinary adult happens to be the one let loose, then it could egg a victim and make a Queen facehugger.
In the former, only one derelict facehugger is required. In the latter, one derelict facehugger and two extra victims.
Either way only necessitates the Jordans' to be the only ones required.
its just that the queen can't feed herself whatever nutrients aliens get, from inorganic metal or whatever by breaking it down, when she is immobile and attached to the egg laying sac. She can't delay this process or so it seems and instinctively settles down to lay eggs once she can do so, as a survival instinct.
She indeed needs at least one adult alien to attend to her and the hive.
Thus she will egg morph one person and grab one more then settle down and let the rest take its course. Which seems to contradict what we know about avp-r, as the predalien does not egg morph to get the aliens which will help tend to her and doesn't settle down to grow the egg sac, not too long afterwards as she should.
If the theories presented on this site are correct, the queen only egg morphs when she is just about ready to start growing the egg laying tube. The predalien upon completion of the egg morphed victim and presence of available host, would immediately then prep the egg to create a drone and then hide away and start the process right away.
I think - as shown by Alien 3 - that the Queen could lay two eggs without the egg sac. Then she goes and captures two hosts and cocoons them. While she waits for them to hatch, she has to defend the hive. After the aliens have hatched and grown, she can then start building an egg sac and start laying eggs. One drone stays in the hive and protects the queen, the other one goes out to capture more hosts.
This method is better than egg morphing, IMO.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 29, 2007, 08:24:59 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 08:11:22 AM
Yeah but she has to go out and grab hosts, so she can't build an egg sac yet.
Or the facehuggers can simply be commanded to go and hunt down hosts, like the one in 'Alien Versus Predator'.
Or she simply lays in wait for prey to come to her. Aliens seem to have massive reserves of patience, when the situation calls for it.
In any case, she won't be completely immobile from the start. The sack doesn't need to be as massive as the fully developed one, to lay the first few.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 08:14:09 AM
its just that the queen can't feed herself whatever nutrients aliens get, from inorganic metal or whatever by breaking it down, when she is immobile and attached to the egg laying sac. She can't delay this process or so it seems and instinctively settles down to lay eggs once she can do so, as a survival instinct.
We don't even know that they eat. Even fi they do, she could jsut grab whatever is necessary and stockpile it near her.
QuoteShe indeed needs at least one adult alien to attend to her and the hive.Quote
Ideally, yes. Not absolutely required. The only thing might be to move eggs out of the way and prevent them building up into a mountain, but perhaps those 'roots' they grow at the base are design to pull them along, Audrey 2-like, to get out of the way.
about what they eat, yeah we don't know. Im just reporting on what the site where this info was, said. I never said i endorsed every statement there, but im throwing the theorized scenarios out there.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 08:26:01 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 08:11:22 AM
Yeah but she has to go out and grab hosts, so she can't build an egg sac yet.
Not really. In any scenario, you have to take into consideration that an investigative team was sent out; it's the only way to explain how they got those face huggers in the med lab. Those people had to be brought back to the colony, so clearly a group of people went out - Either to the derelict or the atmosphere processor, it doesn't matter.
hmm.. i suppose the colonists could have went to the atmosphere processor, but according to james cameron, a search party went to the derelict, after all that's where newt's dad got facehugged.
Im sure they eventually did investigate the atmosphere processor if either the hive affected the temperature in which it was supposed to function under, or if signals of a presence there were found, via the implanted tags of colonists who were grabbed from the main complext to be cocooned there. Then they would end up attacked by the first handful of aliens and cocooned.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 08:32:26 AM
hmm.. i suppose the colonists could have went to the atmosphere processor, but according to james cameron, a search party went to the derelict, after all that's where newt's dad got facehugged.
I'm just saying, it could be either. I prefer derelict, but that don't gel with some people, apparently.
Idea of queen who can lay egg or two without eggsac is still better then "embryo vomiting" one. That would fit to theory of perfect organism.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 29, 2007, 08:24:59 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 08:11:22 AM
Yeah but she has to go out and grab hosts, so she can't build an egg sac yet.
Or the facehuggers can simply be commanded to go and hunt down hosts, like the one in 'Alien Versus Predator'.
Or she simply lays in wait for prey to come to her. Aliens seem to have massive reserves of patience, when the situation calls for it.
In any case, she won't be completely immobile from the start. The sack doesn't need to be as massive as the fully developed one, to lay the first few.[/quote]
On second thought, how would the Queen build an egg sac by herself anyway? That throws out all those other theories. I just don't see how she could do it by herself.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 08:27:31 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 08:14:09 AM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 29, 2007, 08:05:31 AM
I maintain that it would only take one Queen to get things going. All it has to do is lay some eggs. Whether or not it starts physically constructing the hive material does not matter.
If an ordinary adult happens to be the one let loose, then it could egg a victim and make a Queen facehugger.
In the former, only one derelict facehugger is required. In the latter, one derelict facehugger and two extra victims.
Either way only necessitates the Jordans' to be the only ones required.
its just that the queen can't feed herself whatever nutrients aliens get, from inorganic metal or whatever by breaking it down, when she is immobile and attached to the egg laying sac. She can't delay this process or so it seems and instinctively settles down to lay eggs once she can do so, as a survival instinct.
She indeed needs at least one adult alien to attend to her and the hive.
Thus she will egg morph one person and grab one more then settle down and let the rest take its course. Which seems to contradict what we know about avp-r, as the predalien does not egg morph to get the aliens which will help tend to her and doesn't settle down to grow the egg sac, not too long afterwards as she should.
If the theories presented on this site are correct, the queen only egg morphs when she is just about ready to start growing the egg laying tube. The predalien upon completion of the egg morphed victim and presence of available host, would immediately then prep the egg to create a drone and then hide away and start the process right away.
I think - as shown by Alien 3 - that the Queen could lay two eggs without the egg sac. Then she goes and captures two hosts and cocoons them. While she waits for them to hatch, she has to defend the hive. After the aliens have hatched and grown, she can then start building an egg sac and start laying eggs. One drone stays in the hive and protects the queen, the other one goes out to capture more hosts.
This method is better than egg morphing, IMO.
Wait were there two eggs in alien 3? one on the EEV, when spike is barking and one on the sulaco? Hmm.. makes the queen facehugger thing seem even more non-canon. If only one egg was shown, it wouldn't contradict the theatrical version. but this is a little different. Alien 3 just had such a f**ked up script, and it was a mess. Yet we sadly cannot ignore it.
Yet nowhere in alien 3 is it clear nor stated that a queen can lay eggs wiithout the sac. Without the sac, she can't produce the yolk needed to combine with the spores she produces internally, i suppose as if she had some alien equivalent of ovaries. She can't shit eggs out, as that negates the need for the egg sac.
Alien 3 is just bad writing. This is a tangent we don't need to get bogged down in right now. This seems to be going off course.
We were talking about Aliens and the ideas about egg morphing and molting and how no scenario allows for oral embryo implantation, not even by the possibly non-canon, theories out there, that are so in depth they tackle everything that is indeed plausible.
QuoteYeah but it contradicts Alien 3 that says a Queen can lay eggs without an egg sac.
Not if the Queen brought the Queen from the AP Station.
And I don't get why the Queen needs to build an army? A Queen on it's own can grab some hosts prior to settling in to lay eggs. And if she can't she just finds a warm spot to hide and starts laying eggs until some poor schmuck stumbles over them and gets hugged. IF no one does and the Queen eventually dies - the eggs remain anyway.
QuoteWait were there two eggs in alien 3?
No. One egg on the Sulaco (or dropship - take your pick).
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 08:26:01 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 08:11:22 AM
Yeah but she has to go out and grab hosts, so she can't build an egg sac yet.
Not really. In any scenario, you have to take into consideration that an investigative team was sent out; it's the only way to explain how they got those face huggers in the med lab. Those people had to be brought back to the colony, so clearly a group of people went out - Either to the derelict or the atmosphere processor, it doesn't matter.
Ok, but what we're really speculating on is if what if there was just a Queen?
Chet may be alone for a while in AVP-R before those facehuggers manage to get the hunter and son. Still, that may be a bit of a cop-out, anyway.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 08:38:18 AM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 29, 2007, 08:24:59 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 08:11:22 AM
Yeah but she has to go out and grab hosts, so she can't build an egg sac yet.
Or the facehuggers can simply be commanded to go and hunt down hosts, like the one in 'Alien Versus Predator'.
Or she simply lays in wait for prey to come to her. Aliens seem to have massive reserves of patience, when the situation calls for it.
In any case, she won't be completely immobile from the start. The sack doesn't need to be as massive as the fully developed one, to lay the first few.
On second thought, how would the Queen build an egg sac by herself anyway? That throws out all those other theories. I just don't see how she could do it by herself.
[/quote]
hmm. ok. that might change a few aspects of some of my posts here. but she surely doesn't need help to grow it, but to help cocoon it to the walls and ceiling of the hive for support. But who knows she can probably start to lay eggs before that happens. Its not like the functionality of the egg sac is affected by whether its fixed into place or not. It could be on the ground of the hive much like it was in alien resurrection, to get a handful of eggs before waiting for hosts for them and thus more aliens to then help fix the egg sac into place for more strategic egg placement when laying them.
The tendrils on the bottom by the way are most likely either how the egg receives nutrients or perhaps an added triggering mechanism, step on the root it might open up. Has anyone done that in an alien film and not had the egg open on them?
Quote from: SM on Oct 29, 2007, 08:41:15 AM
QuoteYeah but it contradicts Alien 3 that says a Queen can lay eggs without an egg sac.
Not if the Queen brought the Queen from the AP Station.
So the whole time it was chasing Ripley, the Queen was carrying an egg on it's back? :D
QuoteQuoteWait were there two eggs in alien 3?
No. One egg on the Sulaco (or dropship - take your pick).
But we see two facehuggers - one that gets Ripley and one that gets the dog/ox. Unless you are telling me that one facehugger can impregnate two people.. ::)
Quote from: SM on Oct 29, 2007, 08:41:15 AM
QuoteWait were there two eggs in alien 3?
No. One egg on the Sulaco (or dropship - take your pick).
One that we see. Who knows what else was on board?
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 08:41:20 AM
Chet may be alone for a while in AVP-R before those facehuggers manage to get the hunter and son. Still, that may be a bit of a cop-out, anyway.
They arrive on the same ship.
Heaven forbid it'd do the
logical thing and go hide out in the sewers.
This is one of my beefs with the whole thing. The directors
force themselves to come up with something they don't need by pissing on logic and having the creature do something stupid. It's the horse following the cart - We need a new reproductive method, so we'll have Chet go out looking for people to make an army!
Nuh uh. We need an army, Chet should go mosey on down to the sewers and wait a few days.
But nooo...
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 08:44:28 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 08:38:18 AM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 29, 2007, 08:24:59 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 08:11:22 AM
Yeah but she has to go out and grab hosts, so she can't build an egg sac yet.
Or the facehuggers can simply be commanded to go and hunt down hosts, like the one in 'Alien Versus Predator'.
Or she simply lays in wait for prey to come to her. Aliens seem to have massive reserves of patience, when the situation calls for it.
In any case, she won't be completely immobile from the start. The sack doesn't need to be as massive as the fully developed one, to lay the first few.
On second thought, how would the Queen build an egg sac by herself anyway? That throws out all those other theories. I just don't see how she could do it by herself.
hmm. ok. that might change a few aspects of some of my posts here. but she surely doesn't need help to grow it, but to help cocoon it to the walls and ceiling of the hive for support. But who knows she can probably start to lay eggs before that happens. Its not like the functionality of the egg sac is affected by whether its fixed into place or not. It could be on the ground of the hive much like it was in alien resurrection, to get a handful of eggs before waiting for hosts for them and thus more aliens to then help fix the egg sac into place for more strategic egg placement when laying them.
The tendrils on the bottom by the way are most likely either how the egg receives nutrients or perhaps an added triggering mechanism, step on the root it might open up. Has anyone done that in an alien film and not had the egg open on them?
[/quote]
Ok, I guess this was shown in Alien Resurrection. She can produce the eggs. But it would take her more time. Also, the scientists may have altered her lifecycle slightly to produce the eggs, but that is only speculation I think.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 08:41:20 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 08:26:01 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 08:11:22 AM
Yeah but she has to go out and grab hosts, so she can't build an egg sac yet.
Not really. In any scenario, you have to take into consideration that an investigative team was sent out; it's the only way to explain how they got those face huggers in the med lab. Those people had to be brought back to the colony, so clearly a group of people went out - Either to the derelict or the atmosphere processor, it doesn't matter.
Ok, but what we're really speculating on is if what if there was just a Queen?
Chet may be alone for a while in AVP-R before those facehuggers manage to get the hunter and son. Still, that may be a bit of a cop-out, anyway.
considering that the predalien and those facehuggers all came from the crashed ship, why wouldn't she be aware of them and see if either produces a queen chestburster before starting this queen molting shit? Apparently chet's a little slow and decides to skip through the forest and frolic instead. lol.
QuoteOne that we see. Who knows what else was on board?
Elvis was on board.
There's only ever one Alien referenced.
QuoteSo the whole time it was chasing Ripley, the Queen was carrying an egg on it's back?
Why not? We didn't see it lay the egg, and there's nothing to disprove it carried the egg. It's either one or the other.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 08:50:45 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 08:41:20 AM
Chet may be alone for a while in AVP-R before those facehuggers manage to get the hunter and son. Still, that may be a bit of a cop-out, anyway.
They arrive on the same ship.
Heaven forbid it'd do the logical thing and go hide out in the sewers.
This is one of my beefs with the whole thing. The directors force themselves to come up with something they don't need by pissing on logic and having the creature do something stupid. It's the horse following the cart - We need a new reproductive method, so we'll have Chet go out looking for people to make an army!
Nuh uh. We need an army, Chet should go mosey on down to the sewers and wait a few days. I'm surprised that you, an Alien fan, would advocate that.
But nooo...
I don't like the idea of aliens hiding from people, anyway.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 08:50:45 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 08:41:20 AM
Chet may be alone for a while in AVP-R before those facehuggers manage to get the hunter and son. Still, that may be a bit of a cop-out, anyway.
They arrive on the same ship.
Heaven forbid it'd do the logical thing and go hide out in the sewers.
This is one of my beefs with the whole thing. The directors force themselves to come up with something they don't need by pissing on logic and having the creature do something stupid. It's the horse following the cart - We need a new reproductive method, so we'll have Chet go out looking for people to make an army!
Nuh uh. We need an army, Chet should go mosey on down to the sewers and wait a few days.
But nooo...
No matter how you look at it, she shouldn't need an army. That is illogical and overkill. Only one warrior alien(drone..whatever term fits) is needed. From there on, everything is taken care of. If she's out making herself vulnerable for longer than necessary, that's just stupid. We better not see as many as 10 aliens produced by this vomiting shit. lol
Yet the predalien is off either vomiting in people or killing people for who knows how far into the film. It better only be because wolf stops her from settling down to start the process of growing the egg sac that she doesn't do so earlier or else its plain retarded writing.
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 08:53:28 AM
I don't like the idea of aliens hiding from people, anyway.
...Yeah, cos Aliens should ... I'm sorry, no, I just can't believe you'd say something like that. How the hell do you think they sneak up on people? By phoning in ahead and telling them to look the other way?
Aliens hide, and Aliens are patient. The first Alien waited for its prey to come to it - If it'd attacked en masse the entire crew would've been dead in minutes.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 08:56:17 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 08:53:28 AM
I don't like the idea of aliens hiding from people, anyway.
...Yeah, cos Aliens should ... I'm sorry, no, I just can't believe you'd say something like that. How the hell do you think they sneak up on people? By phoning in ahead and telling them to look the other way?
Aliens hide, and Aliens are patient. The first Alien waited for its prey to come to it - If it'd attacked en masse the entire crew would've been dead in minutes.
yeah, they clearly use stealth all the time, not just blind rage. Especially a lone alien that is outnumbered, it will use its survival instincts as opposed to charge ten people with guns. lol
The aliens in the second film, had the advantage of sheer wave after wave of aliens, otherwise they would not have kept attacking people shooting at them. In fact, the sentry guns cause them to retreat once they realize they aren't getting through, in the special edition, so they aren't stupid.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 08:56:17 AM
Quote from: gameoverman on Oct 29, 2007, 08:53:28 AM
I don't like the idea of aliens hiding from people, anyway.
...Yeah, cos Aliens should ... I'm sorry, no, I just can't believe you'd say something like that. How the hell do you think they sneak up on people? By phoning in ahead and telling them to look the other way?
Aliens hide, and Aliens are patient. The first Alien waited for its prey to come to it - If it'd attacked en masse the entire crew would've been dead in minutes.
Doing sneak attacks on people is different than just going hiding away for a while and doing nothing. The first alien was just a few hours old, so it can be excused. Chet has already killed predators by the time the ship crashed.
Quote from: SM on Oct 29, 2007, 08:52:08 AM
QuoteOne that we see. Who knows what else was on board?
Elvis was on board.
There's only ever one Alien referenced.
QuoteSo the whole time it was chasing Ripley, the Queen was carrying an egg on it's back?
Why not? We didn't see it lay the egg, and there's nothing to disprove it carried the egg. It's either one or the other.
yeah there is something to disprove she carried the egg, its called "Aliens". The queen is seen before she enters the elevator and she charges and all her hands are seen and no egg is present. I doubt she stashed it, picked it back up convieniently when not shown . lol
if anyone has a capture of what im talking about, that would help demonstrate this fact.
Then go and watch the film again.
Anyway...
ALL Aliens rely on stealth. The Hadley ones did it too as did the Fiorina creature and the Auriga creatures. When they're in an advantageous position they move in and attack. If the PredAlien is a Queen the FIRST thing it should do is hide somewhere and start laying eggs.
Quote from: SM on Oct 29, 2007, 09:08:00 AM
Then go and watch the film again, dickhead.
Anyway...
ALL Aliens rely on stealth. The Hadley ones did it too as did the Fiorina creature and the Auriga creatures. When they're in an advantageous position they move in and attack. If the PredAlien is a Queen the FIRST thing it should do is hide somewhere and start laying eggs.
what? where's that coming from? lol.
Am I not correct that you do not see an egg yet you see the queen leave the hive? If so, i'll gladly admit my error, but last time i checked there is not one being carried in that film. Thus Im not being a "dickhead", making something up.
plus im with you on the fact, that a queen should not be running around making herself vulnerable any longer than absolutely necessary, as her primary duty is to lay the eggs. Yet i get the insults flying at me. lol.
Yeah you are.
Quote from: SM on Oct 29, 2007, 09:13:30 AM
Yeah you are.
what im correct, or making shit up? lol.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 09:10:25 AM
Im not being a "dickhead", making something up.
Nope, that would be the Alien 3 crew. They pulled an egg out of nowhere because it was the easy option. Why spend any effort establishing a plausible plot point when you can just gloss over it? :)
What's with the flaming? He's just saying his opinion, just like the rest of us.
I sort of agree with the folks who think that the aliens should have a stealth element in them, like the alien in Alien. That was blatantly taken away in AvP1. A damn shame, too.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 29, 2007, 09:18:28 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 09:10:25 AM
Im not being a "dickhead", making something up.
Nope, that would be the Alien 3 crew. They pulled an egg out of nowhere because it was the easy option. Why spend any effort establishing a plausible plot point when you can just gloss over it? :)
Apparently so. After all these years, there's not one reasonable explanation for how the egg got there.
Quotewhat im correct, or making shit up? lol.
The latter.
We can asume that queen might have taken one of her eggs and carried it in her secondary hands. We can also assuem that she layed egg without her egg sack ( so called emergency egg) on board of Sulaco. She might have do that cause she was all alone and knew that she might not win the final battle.
Quote from: SM on Oct 29, 2007, 09:22:31 AM
Quotewhat im correct, or making shit up? lol.
The latter.
wtf? How can I be making stuff up if im not lying? To say i made it up, you'd have to present the screen capture of the movie aliens, that shows the egg in the queens hand.. oh wait a minute there isn't one. Therefore i didn't make shit up.
There was not one because Cameron did not thought that it will be needed in next film.
Quote from: Master on Oct 29, 2007, 09:27:35 AM
We can asume that queen might have taken one of her eggs and carried it in her secondary hands. We can also assuem that she layed egg without her egg sack ( so called emergency egg) on board of Sulaco. She might have do that cause she was all alone and knew that she might not win the final battle.
the problem with that is, her little secondary arms are seen as well. When she exits the elevator, before bishop picks them up and they think they are going to die, you can see the queen pretty much in its entirety, it also runs at them before ripley gets in the elevator and blasts it with the flamethrower. It every instance, we see no chance to reasonably allow for the possibility that it somehow had an egg with it.
The laying eggs without a sac seems ridiculous. Why grow one then?
Quote from: Master on Oct 29, 2007, 09:31:28 AM
There was not one because Cameron did not thought that it will be needed in next film.
so therefore you can't try to retrofit it to the plot of that film. If something visibly negates the premise argued for or contradicts it in some way it can't be argued.
There is no chance the queen carried an egg from the nest as she escaped as she is seen not too long after that and all her limbs are shown and there is no egg. Like someone said, she'd have to carry it on her back and then not damage it by all the running around and getting shot by a flamethrower. lol.
^Not only that, but she is certainly not carrying one once on board the Sulaco, and the location we see the egg in at the beginning of Alien 3 is not the landing gear of the dropship.
Quote from: Master on Oct 29, 2007, 09:27:35 AM
We can asume that queen might have taken one of her eggs and carried it in her secondary hands. We can also assuem that she layed egg without her egg sack ( so called emergency egg) on board of Sulaco. She might have do that cause she was all alone and knew that she might not win the final battle.
when did she have time to lay the so-called "emergency egg" while in the dropship? It was placed on the EEv, upside down in some weird manner as well, she couldn't have tossed it in quickly.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 29, 2007, 09:37:52 AM
^Not only that, but she is certainly not carrying one once on board the Sulaco, and the location we see the egg in at the beginning of Alien 3 is not the landing gear of the dropship.
Indeed its not. And all the movement of the queen once she left the hatch of the dropship is accounted for, culiminated in her being sucked out the airlock. The writing of that film just suffered as the script wasn't even finished before fincher started filming. It was really, halfass shit to progress the film along to the few things they knew had to happen. Ripley has an alien in her and is going to sacrifice herself. The whole film feels like its just trying to desperately get to that part and all else is not important.
Well, I personally wouldn't lambast the whole film for just a handful of problems and odd decisions, but nevertheless...egg in Alien 3 = poorly thought out quick answer. :)
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 29, 2007, 09:45:52 AM
Well, I personally wouldn't lambast the whole film for just a handful of problems and odd decisions, but nevertheless...egg in Alien 3 = poorly thought out quick answer. :)
it was just a symptom of the greater problem of a halfassed script. The staggering amount of material cut from the film, fills like 30 minutes. I still can't believe they originally never intended to show the queen chestburster burst out of ripley. They re-shot that for the finalized film.
Anyway this has gone so far off topic. Let's get back to bashing the vomit idea, as apparently so many people still think its reasonable. lol.
Da pewk idea is teh shit! :)
Someone's been watching Tremors 2 too much.
(For anyone who ain't seen it, the Shriekers puke out a new creature after a big meal.)
Hey, hey. Bash the idea, if you must. But don't bash the peeps who like the idea.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 29, 2007, 10:00:43 AM
Da pewk idea is teh shit! :)
Someone's been watching Tremors 2 too much.
(For anyone who ain't seen it, the Shriekers puke out a new creature after a big meal.)
The first tremors is one of those films that never really needed a sequel, like jurassic park. About the vomit/oral implantation, seriously who can think that it even remotely makes sense, its just hard to accept. You'd have to know virtually nothing about the alien films to embrace it. lol
well, it seems only around 20% absolutely love the idea. That means there may not be as much ass kissing toward the directors in regards to this. People are actually making up their own minds which is good.
Quote from: Predalien warrior on Oct 29, 2007, 10:01:33 AM
Hey, hey. Bash the idea, if you must. But don't bash the peeps who like the idea.
allright, settle down. I was joking to a certain extent anyway, but the posts were indeed going far, far off topic.
Yes and this topic has dragged on WAY out of control not to mention off topic. How about we all settle down and leave this be for a while and wait to see how it pans out ok? You guys think you can keep your raging fan boys under control for a bit yeah?
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 09:57:29 AM
Anyway this has gone so far off topic. Let's get back to bashing the vomit idea, as apparently so many people still think its reasonable. lol.
I'm fully with you on that one...
BURN THEM AT THE STAKE! ;D
Quote from: ashion on Oct 29, 2007, 10:38:16 AM
Yes and this topic has dragged on WAY out of control not to mention off topic. How about we all settle down and leave this be for a while and wait to see how it pans out ok? You guys think you can keep your raging fan boys under control for a bit yeah?
I don't have a raging fan boy.
But regardless, I think people will keep on discussin' stuff as long as they feel like it. Thanks for the suggestion anyway.
Quote from: Gates on Oct 29, 2007, 10:38:55 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 09:57:29 AM
Anyway this has gone so far off topic. Let's get back to bashing the vomit idea, as apparently so many people still think its reasonable. lol.
I'm fully with you on that one...
BURN THEM AT THE STAKE! ;D
let's not get carried away. lol.
It's not as if I can't accept opinions which differ from my own. But this idea is really lame and out of place for a film with aliens in it. Its not supposed to be your average run of the mill sci-fi loser movie, its an aliens vs predator film. (well maybe not the best argument. lol)
So, now that I cooled off about the whole new RC, some questions popped to my head:
1 - Does this new speedy RC mean we will get the ONE NIGHT timeframe for the whole movie...?
I mean, with this new RC, the PQ can impregnate a LOT of people really fast...!
And knowing that there won't be any eggs and facehuggers apart from the hunter-son ones, does this mean that in order to overrun Gunnison, we will have the PQ impregnate the hundreds needed to provide the quantities needed to overrun the town...?
Also, I have been wondering about the three chestbursters we saw on the GB trailer... is there a possibility these three may all come from the SAME host, like triplets or something...?
(Surely expect not, but given the new RC, I am now expecting EVERYTHING, even pink Aliens...! ::))
And last but not least, a though of mine: we may now feel angry, frustrated, disappointed, but in a few days time, we will be accustomed to this new RC, and by the time the movie premieres, we will have accepted it...!
So, no matter what you may feel now, it is what you will feel THEN that will matter...!
Actually, the marketing department, consciously or not, by leaking this to USAToday, they actually dodged that bullet...Fox and the Bros. also, because when the movie premieres, people will already be used to that idea and they won't make a fuss about it anymore...
Trust me... People forget easily and rapidly...
Even now, I am calmer, and getting further resignated to the idea that we will have a third RC introduced... in an AVP movie, no less...
So, now that the thread has lost some steam, and given the sampling still at 60/40, it is just a matter of time before people will forget about this and move on to other battles...
As a final note on this new RC, I will just say that no matter how people for and against it rationalise it, you can be sure that Shane was not taking all that into consideration... This looks and sounds pretty much like a budget-motivated thing, especially since we are having a PQ concept that, design aside, is not what people would expect, especially a DNA-intermingle like that...
I don't like the idea, the conflict with what transpired from AR is obvious to me, and let's not forget this concept was devised by the same writer who co-wrote Armageddon and wrote that 'infamous' script reviewd by AICN...
So, I apologise for going off-topic here, but just thought I should share these latest thoughts of mine with you... ;)
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Oct 29, 2007, 11:09:28 AM
Trust me... People forget easily and rapidly...
Tell that to all the people who have debated egg-morphing, Bishop II, ten-minute-Aliens, the Newborn, and any other number of controversial decisions.
What's everyone against, a fast facehugger incubation, or a fast anything?
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 11:06:17 AM
let's not get carried away. lol.
Yeah...maybe your right, being burnt at the stake is a bit much...crucification then? Or perhaps death by drowning? ;D
But in all seriousness, it's all in good fun people...for sh!ts and giggles is all... :)
Calm it down folks, Bros. are making a good movie, we can't just speculate before we actually go to the theaters and shit our pants.
;)
Quote from: Alienseseses on Oct 29, 2007, 11:22:42 AM
What's everyone against, a fast facehugger incubation, or a fast anything?
I believe the hardcore Alien fans would like directors to stay true to thier favorite movie monsters, and pay attention to the details of the original movies. The lifecycle has been sped up, alot, in the previous film. For some people this is much more then just a movie, and they want to see an accurate protrayal of said beast.
Hey Alien fans, at least they didnt give your xenomorph a whip.. shoulda called him Indy instead of Wolf :P
The fact of the matter is this going to become canon, for the avp series at least. We all need to accept the things we cannot change..
Quote from: Wildbird on Oct 29, 2007, 11:32:11 AM
Bros. are making a good movie, we can't just speculate before we actually go to the theaters ...
Actually, that's
all we can do. :)
That is right you can speculate but don't make conclusive judgments until the film is released and you've seen it.
Quote from: Fazz on Oct 29, 2007, 11:38:54 AM
That is right you can speculate but don't make conclusive judgments until the film is released and you've seen it.
People are free to pass whatever judgement they want based on the material they have seen thus far.. the forum is for posting your opinion on said subject last time i checked :P
No Gates. Drowning is way to short. Let`s cut out their eyelids then impale them in front of big plasma tv with Anderson`s special being showned. ;D
Quote from: Nihkoute on Oct 29, 2007, 11:42:30 AM
Quote from: Fazz on Oct 29, 2007, 11:38:54 AM
That is right you can speculate but don't make conclusive judgments until the film is released and you've seen it.
People are free to pass whatever judgement they want based on the material they have seen thus far.. the forum is for posting your opinion on said subject last time i checked :P
True but i meant that they can't say for sure the films a failure as it hasn't been released.
Quote from: Nihkoute on Oct 29, 2007, 11:35:14 AM
Hey Alien fans, at least they didnt give your xenomorph a whip.. shoulda called him Indy instead of Wolf :P
Personally, I actually like the whip to be honest...what could a new weapon have been really? Some kind of boring curved sword type thing? How many characters in films have actually utilized a whip before? Obviously Indy, Catwomen, and that faggoty looking guy in
Underworld, oh and how could I forget
Flash Gordon (waiting for Antman to pull out some randomly obscure movie with a whip in it ;))...it's just a very exotic weapon and in my opinion fits the bill for a new predator weapon...but the double shoulder canons are another thing altogether...that is truly a sh!tbag idea... :-X
Quote from: Master on Oct 29, 2007, 11:43:49 AM
No Gates. Drowning is way to short. Let`s cut out their eyelids then impale them in front of big plasma tv with Anderson`s special being showned. ;D
8)
Anyway is there any info yet on how Chet infects people with the new alien embryos.
Quote from: Gates on Oct 29, 2007, 11:49:52 AM
Quote from: Nihkoute on Oct 29, 2007, 11:35:14 AM
Hey Alien fans, at least they didnt give your xenomorph a whip.. shoulda called him Indy instead of Wolf :P
Personally, I actually like the whip to be honest...what could a new weapon have been really? Some kind of boring curved sword type thing? How many characters in films have actually utilized a whip before? Obviously Indy, Catwomen, and that faggoty looking guy in Underworld, oh and how could I forget Flash Gordon (waiting for Antman to pull out some randomly obscure movie with a whip in it ;))...it's just a very exotic weapon and in my opinion fits the bill for a new predator weapon...but the double shoulder canons are another thing altogether...that is truly a sh!tbag idea... :-X
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg132.imageshack.us%2Fimg132%2F5333%2Fyautjaag3.jpg&hash=e5e62d21e92c13d0053ac3898aba807bdda6ac41)
Something of honor and dignity.. the Naginata or the Bakuub.
I know this statement is going to cause an arguement because the comics and books are not cnsiderd cannon, _but_..
Elder Predators prefer bladed weapons.. there is much honor in hunting with these even though very powerful technology is at their disposable.
I really would have liked to have seen one of these in the movie, the above image is of the naginata. A bladed staff weapon.
I know this isn't a big deal to you, but for me, it is as important as the speed of the life cycle. I hope you can respect that.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 29, 2007, 11:20:47 AM
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Oct 29, 2007, 11:09:28 AM
Trust me... People forget easily and rapidly...
Tell that to all the people who have debated egg-morphing, Bishop II, ten-minute-Aliens, the Newborn, and any other number of controversial decisions.
Yes, but the intensity and the 'what you're gonna do about it' will fade eventually...
I am gonna put my money where my mouth is, by biting my time and do the waiting game until I have some feedback about the movie...
I am sure most of the people who are displeased with what is going on, will see it anyway, so what's the point of all the negativity if people are just gonna eventually see it anyway and not do what's in their power to ensure these icons will not get further mistreated...?
Fans are the target audiences here and they have the power to fight back...
But they won't... That's the 'conformity' I was talking about...
I know people will talk, and talk, and talk... but in the end, the ultimate end, they will still be lining Fox's pockets nonetheless...
So why all the negative criticism if people will still be watching the movie regardless...?
The polls show it blatantly, and I am sure not all are 'positivists'... The 'negativists' are also gonna see it and the question is more: if you're all gonna see it anyway, why would Fox care much aboiut what you think...?
Without affirmative action, these are merely words...with no real effect whatsoever...More like a ' letting all out' but with no real consequence to be seen...
Quote from: Wildbird on Oct 29, 2007, 11:32:11 AM
Calm it down folks, Bros. are making a good movie, we can't just speculate before we actually go to the theaters and shit our pants.
;)
Wildbird, you don't know the Bros. are doing a good movie at all... You're just in the same situation as you described we are... you are also speculating as much as we all are... Having not seen the movie at all, and having no way to know if the rookie directors were any good at it...
Trouble is, wishful thinking is not fact-based speculation... So far, facts show the movie is unbalanced and with probably too many additions to it, namely this new RC...
Most key concept designs have divided opinions, either the Predalien, the Xenomorph, only with Wolf's unmasked face remaining unseen and still reserving judgment, and we are just talking about a small sample of all the Alien and Predator fanbase out there...
So far, 60% of 100 posters who voted in polls say they will be seeing the movie no matter what...
Some have even said that they will be seeing it more than 2 times, without knowing if visually or narratively the movie will be any good at all, but because they delusionally believe this massive affluence (that they won't know will happen despite their singular efforts...) will give them the Alien 5 or Predator 3 they have been expecting for so long...Forgetting that the Aliens and Predators have been rendered banale now... Predators have lost their mysteriousness and Aliens are already on Earth, killing thousands and annihilating a small Colorado town... And the Xenomorph and SpaceJockey origins are better left untouched, with the risk of being msihandled or handled poorly...
And
Jim Cameron's Alien 5 script was turned down and replaced by Anderson's AVP, so you know where Fox motivations lie...
So, if AVPR succeeds in the BO, we'll be only getting another AVP movie, and further 'bastardisation' of the originals...
Some things are just better left untouched...
Quote from: Alienseseses on Oct 29, 2007, 11:22:42 AM
What's everyone against, a fast facehugger incubation, or a fast anything?
Given the new RC, they are gonna do that even FASTER...Imagine ONE Predalien doing 'mouth to mouth' to dozens, even hundreds of human hosts in one single night...!
Now imagine how fast She will have to do it to reach the numbers necessary to overrun the whole 5,500 Pop. town...
I think we will have it pretty fast, I would take it... ;D
And this brings the 'One night' discussion back to debate I guess... ;D ;)
So, long story short, I rather they would do a story where there would be a normal Alien incubation with people oblivious until it was too late..
This is all in the writer's imagination scope... So the easy way out is not the way... the new RC is budget-friendly and allows for a sped-up incubation process...exactly the same concept so bitterly criticised in AVP... ::) ;D ;)
QuoteSo far, facts show the movie is unbalanced and with probably too many additions to it, namely this new RC...
I agree, however; i think its very easy for us to say in hindsight it would have been better to just leave well enough alone, make no attempt at originalty what so ever, and play it safe. Keep both creatures, their behavior, their appearance, the alien life cycle, predator weapons load out the same as the previous films.
Its clear that Greg and Colin wanted this movie to be their bench mark, and i firmly and honestly believe they are trying to do the best job they can, with the fans in mind and i have alot of respect for them in this reguard. Although some things are not accurate or what i would have liked to have seen, this is obviously a vast improvement and a step in the right direction compared to the 2004 nightmare. Again; however..
SiL clearly shows in this thead that Colin needed to brush up on his research, just abit :P
Even though the brothers seem bias towards the Predator in the film, they clearly need ot do more research in this creature too imho.. im not sure if anyone has noticed, but this Predator is killing unarmed civilians in several scenes of the trailer, that breaks the canon of Predator last time i checked.
My opinion on this entire matter is this: They changed too much, but someone was eventually going to do it, right? At least these guys are trying hard to give us somethig we like, and we aren't an easy group of people to please, are we?
I wouldn't have changed so much in the span of one movie, but it was going to happen, sooner or later.
When i sit back and reflect on the pros and the cons of what we have seen so far, i think the pros definately out weight the cons.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 29, 2007, 02:52:34 AM
You just basically said it. :)
Genestealers stick their tongues in prey and then vomit out the seed, letting it grow/take ahold of a victim (the material I used to read alluded to it often being down the throat, too). The Predalien is going to be doing exactly the same, but with the inner mouth.
so I'm reading about the Purii - Purii are the most recognisable Genestealer type and one of these is always the first in the infection cycle as they are the only ones capable of infecting other species through an ovipositor for genetic material within their tongue. As the infection spreads throughout the planet, the first genestealer takes upon the role of leader or Patriarch and often grows larger and bulkier than typical Purii specimens.
if this information is correct, I do not consider this to be a straight direct vomit as much as the Fasano screenplay of Ward's story depicted, but at the end of the day, we 're still guessing about what the scene is going to show
Maybe the Strause's are driving fans into a negative trashing state on purpose. Then the fans' hopes are low when they go into to see the movie.
And when we go in to see the movie, we'll all be pleasantly suprised ;)
I dont think thats how it works.
... I was just kidding :P
Quote from: Gates on Oct 29, 2007, 11:49:52 AM
(waiting for Antman to pull out some randomly obscure movie with a whip in it ;))
Uhhh...nah, I got nuthin'
Unless you count Ghost Rider's chain. He uses it in a whip-like fashion. :)
No wait, you forgot a pretty famous one...Zorro.
And there's also a Whip in Top Gun. (Apologies to anyone who gets that terrible joke. ;) )
I think there was no need to introduce this new reproduction method, i HATE the idea.
Quote from: slipknotpredator on Oct 29, 2007, 02:12:13 PM
I think there was no need to introduce this new reproduction method, i HATE the idea.
Hey, don't be so rude! The Brothers just wanted to add a cool new feature.
Quote from: Wildbird on Oct 29, 2007, 02:56:07 PM
Quote from: slipknotpredator on Oct 29, 2007, 02:12:13 PM
I think there was no need to introduce this new reproduction method, i HATE the idea.
Hey, don't be so rude! The Brothers just wanted to add a cool new feature.
Yes, as directors i guess they tryed to give the movie something new, but i dont find it cool.
Quote from: slipknotpredator on Oct 29, 2007, 03:06:43 PM
Quote from: Wildbird on Oct 29, 2007, 02:56:07 PM
Quote from: slipknotpredator on Oct 29, 2007, 02:12:13 PM
I think there was no need to introduce this new reproduction method, i HATE the idea.
Hey, don't be so rude! The Brothers just wanted to add a cool new feature.
Yes, as directors i guess they tryed to give the movie something new, but i dont find it cool.
Ok, so you'd rather the Aliens not be capable of reproducing if there isnt a Queen, even though they're supposed to to be the ultimate biological weapon?
Quote from: Horhey on Oct 29, 2007, 03:10:03 PM
Quote from: slipknotpredator on Oct 29, 2007, 03:06:43 PM
Quote from: Wildbird on Oct 29, 2007, 02:56:07 PM
Quote from: slipknotpredator on Oct 29, 2007, 02:12:13 PM
I think there was no need to introduce this new reproduction method, i HATE the idea.
Hey, don't be so rude! The Brothers just wanted to add a cool new feature.
Yes, as directors i guess they tryed to give the movie something new, but i dont find it cool.
Ok, so you'd rather the Aliens not be capable of reproducing if there isnt a Queen, even though they're supposed to to be the ultimate biological weapon?
People have already posted here about the egg morphing method, and it seems this is what the majority of Xenomorph die-hards would have prefered.
I'm not including this method in my source guide.
Quote from: Accaris on Oct 29, 2007, 03:41:24 PM
I'm not including this method in my source guide.
It will be cannon in 2 months :-\ :'(
Quote from: Nihkoute on Oct 29, 2007, 03:26:20 PM
People have already posted here about the egg morphing method, and it seems this is what the majority of Xenomorph die-hards would have prefered.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I guess :-\
I prefer queen molting, though.
You've only got to look at the poll, the poll doesnt lie. Plus the fact 250 people have voted, to see where we are at with this franchise.
I mean 250 people! times that by how many AVP sites there are and your talking what ? a couple of Thousand max that actaully give a toss, with over Half being ok with the idea.
There's nothing the fans can do, theres not enough! Aliens died after A3....
Quote from: slipknotpredator on Oct 29, 2007, 03:42:48 PM
Quote from: Accaris on Oct 29, 2007, 03:41:24 PM
I'm not including this method in my source guide.
It will be cannon in 2 months :-\ :'(
Bah the canon also includes Predators teaching humanity how to build pyramids, and Weyland Yutani being taken over by Wal-Mart. As far as I'm concerned, this new thing is part of the AVP:R storyline, which so far seems a little out of place. I'm not bothering with AVP 1, either...
wow....it's amazing and sad that this thread has went for 125 times. It's a movie, just sit back and enjoy it!
At first I was a bit wierded out about the new reproduction process, but now I am getting use to it. It does make the creatures a lot more versatile ie making them still the most dangerous creatures in the galaxy.
Another reason to stay the f**k away from Aliens or Alien Hybrids.
Facehugged, impregnated Queens or getting an egg shoved in your mouth? Come on! Thats another reason to stay away from those critters. There trying something new... The Predalien is a whole new Xeno and with a new creature ( capable of reproducing ) should come a new cycle to reproduce.
I'm been thinking on this for awhile and I don't know how to truly feel about.
I mean it contradicts the alien lifecycle pretty bad, but then again its a different creature altogether. Should it not be allowed to have a lifecycle of its own?
Like I said...
I mean, Alien 3! ZOMG! THE FACEHUGZORS HUGGED THE CAOW! IT c**t BE RIGHT! NO ALIEN NEMORE... fAcehuggzrz should only hug umans!
Quote from: SyntaX on Oct 29, 2007, 04:39:31 PM
Like I said...
I mean, Alien 3! ZOMG! THE FACEHUGZORS HUGGED THE CAOW! IT c**t BE RIGHT! NO ALIEN NEMORE... fAcehuggzrz should only hug umans!
OMG WHY?
There are no humans in outer space, facehuggers were designed to hug anything. And there are no vaginas either, so I decline the rape incident also!
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 29, 2007, 03:59:49 PM
You've only got to look at the poll, the poll doesnt lie. Plus the fact 250 people have voted, to see where we are at with this franchise.
I mean 250 people! times that by how many AVP sites there are and your talking what ? a couple of Thousand max that actaully give a toss, with over Half being ok with the idea.
There's nothing the fans can do, theres not enough! Aliens died after A3....
Your math staggers me, as usual... 60% in ONE poll means nothing... IF they get more even in other polls, you'll get at least half of the fanbase disliking it...
The question is more who will not see the movie if this RC is in it...? NOBODY...!
So, this poll is worth what is worth, which is a whole bunch of nothing... :D
New RC or not, you guys know you see the movie regardless ;)
Quote from: Predalien warrior on Oct 29, 2007, 06:42:01 PM
New RC or not, you guys know you see the movie regardless ;)
of course.
no way im
paying to the see the alien life cycle pissed on though.
Quote from: SyntaX on Oct 29, 2007, 04:39:31 PM
Like I said...
I mean, Alien 3! ZOMG! THE FACEHUGZORS HUGGED THE CAOW! IT c**t BE RIGHT! NO ALIEN NEMORE... fAcehuggzrz should only hug umans!
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg137.imageshack.us%2Fimg137%2F295%2Forlyavpqs9.jpg&hash=2a8e2b39f0dfb4ad3b3b2fe8acd818ef30a3cfea)
you made a point and a funnayz at the same time.
bonus points
Ok, here's what I'm confused about with Alien 3 (TR and AC)...So, the Queen layed one last egg on the Sulaco, but somehow a normal facehugger was able to plant two embryos:
1. First embryo was planted in Newt and the Queen chestburster crawled out of Newt's cryo-tube, after the crash, and slipped into Ripley's mouth (as mentioned in the Alien 3 comics)
or the first embryo was planted in Ripley, originally.
2. The second embryo is planted in the dog, even though it is known that facehuggers (USUALLY) die, after planting ONE embryo in a host.
Also, the Super-facehugger in the Alien 3 AC was just for the ox right, and wasn't the carrier of the Queen embryo for Ripley? It would've been way too big to fit on a human face.
Where was the Super-facehugger egg?
And yes, that would mean the Queen doesn't need a egg sac to lay eggs. Once it's mature, I guess it can lay eggs with/without an egg sac present.
As for the origin of the Queen in ALIENS...it's up in the air. Cameron left that info out for us to speculate/theorize, I guess.
Russ Jordan carried the Queen embryo, or when other colonists brought back other facehuggers (attached to faces or not), the Queen emerged out of one of them, along with some Alien drones.
If we use this regurgitation method, it could be that the Queen might have bursted from Russ Jordan and as it grew, went around and used this regurgitation on the other colonists. The Queen could certainly hide very well.
Quote from: vehtam on Oct 29, 2007, 07:01:55 PM
Quote from: SyntaX on Oct 29, 2007, 04:39:31 PM
Like I said...
I mean, Alien 3! ZOMG! THE FACEHUGZORS HUGGED THE CAOW! IT c**t BE RIGHT! NO ALIEN NEMORE... fAcehuggzrz should only hug umans!
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/295/orlyavpqs9.jpg
ROFL OWNED
Quote from: Predator-S on Oct 29, 2007, 07:47:22 PM
Quote from: vehtam on Oct 29, 2007, 07:01:55 PM
Quote from: SyntaX on Oct 29, 2007, 04:39:31 PM
Like I said...
I mean, Alien 3! ZOMG! THE FACEHUGZORS HUGGED THE CAOW! IT c**t BE RIGHT! NO ALIEN NEMORE... fAcehuggzrz should only hug umans!
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/295/orlyavpqs9.jpg
ROFL OWNED
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi71.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi148%2FS_Rex93%2Fdino.jpg&hash=ed5bc47d12b28fa3363a17a05453eb46b7b4f534)
;)
Quote from: echobbase79 on Oct 29, 2007, 04:36:49 PM
I'm been thinking on this for awhile and I don't know how to truly feel about.
I mean it contradicts the alien lifecycle pretty bad, but then again its a different creature altogether. Should it not be allowed to have a lifecycle of its own?
No, it shouldn't have its own lifecycle, because it is an alien. Its not a different species of alien, just because it came from a different host. Also the directors have stated that its not an ability unique to the predalien, but rather all young queens in a phase of development before they reach full maturity.
So it really f**ks with canon in regards to the previous Alien films in which no such idea was ever intended or really allowed for.
We still haven't had a complete expelnation on screen it might make more sense and be les of a puke fest that most on here have made it
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 08:05:46 PM
We still haven't had a complete expelnation on screen it might make more sense and be les of a puke fest that most on here have made it
If it's done "tastefully" then I wouldn't mind it, but if it just shows Chet projectile vomiting into peoples mouths then I'd be put off of it.
That doesn't make the concept any less valid.
It's like saying the Predator will start break dancing. Okay, it might look cool, but it's still a shit idea.
well whats done is done, just write off the moive as being non-canon and enjoy the projectile vomit
w00t! I've gotten people to sart saying Chet projectile vomits!
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 08:08:36 PM
It's like saying the Predator will start break dancing. Okay, it might look cool, but it's still a shit idea.
:D HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
True, so true, but reading that reminded me of what I said to my mom about Patrick Swayze in Predator 2, he dirty dances Pussyface to death! :D
I mean it might be closer to Canon...that's what the word explained means. if we understand it more it might have something so it doesn't destroy canon, which i already think it doesn't because i'm not biased to hate anything the add automatically
Why are people thinking it's "vomit"?
It just could be the passing of a underdeveloped chestburster: kind of like how the alien creatures are passed in "The Hidden" movie, I mentioned yesterday. So, I don't think we will see "The Excorsist", so to speak, but more of "The Hidden". Instead of something of liquid, we will see the body of the chestburster being passed into the mouth.
I'm not expecting a bunch of liquid/goo, but more of seeing the undeveloped-chestburster body or somekind of a embryo object.
If on screen he pukes alot of crap into peoples mouths...alright i'll call it that...until i see it i'll give them the benfit of the doubt call it rape please
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 08:08:36 PM
It's like saying the Predator will start break dancing. Okay, it might look cool, but it's still a shit idea.
Says you. I think the preds should start dancing after every kill. I would add about 40 solid minutes of dance scenes to each of the other tree films, if I could.
There's no way to execute the idea that would make it any more or less canon, period.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 08:17:42 PM
There's no way to execute the idea that would make it any more or less canon, period.
i know a couple ways to make it less canon....
but the point is on screen it might work better than in biased "Everything in this movie will suck because of (insert reason)" ideas
I'll give the new reproduction a chance.
But right now I can't stop thinking about Wolf doing these moves!
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww1.istockphoto.com%2Ffile_thumbview_approve%2F2516365%2F2%2Fistockphoto_2516365_break_dancing_people.jpg&hash=8c097dc0e550e40fe50a252734dfb542454c839f)
^^ ;D ;D ;D *laughing 2 hard 2 breath*
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 08:17:42 PM
There's no way to execute the idea that would make it any more or less canon, period.
I don't see how that works. All the film is doing is adding new options the Aliens can take in thier lifecycle, contradicting nothing, whilst also shedding some light on what happened to Lambert.
Sure, it isn't a great idea. But it doesn't f**kything up that badly. It's certainly not as bad as the Human and Predator team up in AVP.
Can we all agree one that?
Better than teamup? come on guys....
and like i said it doesn't break canon...
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 29, 2007, 08:10:22 PM
well whats done is done, just write off the moive as being non-canon and enjoy the projectile vomit
If this was the sole issue and absolutely everything else was good, I might be able to do that. But there are lots of other minor issues and then you have the idea that the predalien molts into a queen as well as the vomit.
I already had to try to ignore the teen drama elements, the setting being in colorado and aspects of the predalien design, but now its just piling on way too much. This non-canon idea actually being used is worse than those things. The design aspects are less important than maintaining continuity and staying consistent with the other alien and predator films. They aren't that bad, at least when dealing with wolf and the warrior aliens. I like the ridged heads, I like the fact that they will use the sound effects they had in "Aliens" as well. But then we get the predalien roaring. So it seems neither the design elements or story/continuity with other films are perfect as to allow a person to just ignore one or the other.
Predalien roar is going to be changed i heard..
story we don't know about...
doesn't break canon...bends it a litte
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 08:33:18 PM
doesn't break canon...bends it a litte
Canon is like time and space, very delicate ;)
Quote from: WisePredator on Oct 29, 2007, 08:34:26 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 08:33:18 PM
doesn't break canon...bends it a litte
Canon is like time and space, very delicate ;)
it doesn't destroy what's in place, and whats in place doesn't say it can't happen...if anything it encourages it by calling Aliens adaptable...
again, just write off the whole movie as non-canon, if u cant stand the lack of continuacy, dont watch the movie, the general public wont care weather its consistent with the other movies or not, then theres ppl lik me, im a fan, but continualcy and canon isnt whats most important 2 me, im gonna go watch the movie for the thrill, ill believe what aspects of the aliens r pred that i feel r right, but it really doent matter.
Quote from: Aeus on Oct 29, 2007, 08:22:24 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 08:17:42 PM
There's no way to execute the idea that would make it any more or less canon, period.
I don't see how that works. All the film is doing is adding new options the Aliens can take in thier lifecycle, contradicting nothing, whilst also shedding some light on what happened to Lambert.
Sure, it isn't a great idea. But it doesn't f**kything up that badly. It's certainly not as bad as the Human and Predator team up in AVP.
For the last time, Lambert was not the victim of any actual rape or reproduction method. The human/predator team up was dumb, but not far fetched, its just not what you want to see a predator doing, it doesn't mean one can't. This idea however, is borderline absurd. There's no plausible way a chestburster embryo could be contained within the predalien. If she coughs one up and it jumps into the person's mouth, that will be so lame.
I don't know how it could regurgigate even that without bringing up some fluid either, but then again its non-canon, movie magic that defies all logic. lol
Even the website, that featured in depth speculation much like the anchorpoint essays, made it clear that the "spores" a queen has in her body are just one part that makes up the eggs once they combine with a yolk designed to mix with the spore and start growing into an egg containing a facehugger. The facehugger does not develop an embryo until the egg has been laid from the queen's egg sac and begins to develop further. It cannot develop before the facehugger or egg. So I don't see how this will make sense.
Now the "pseudo-host" as it was called, or this yolk which combines with the spore to form the complete egg, is just that the place where the spore develops, much like the person's body is the place where a chestburster develops, so the queen could not simply puke that yolk down their throat and grow a chestburster either.
The only thing it could implant a host with is the spore and that would only lead to the person turning into an egg.
not noncanon ;D
Tell Ridley Scott she wasen't raped and most people who listen to noises...
Quote from: Aeus on Oct 29, 2007, 08:22:24 PM
I don't see how that works.
How does its execution make it any
more or
less valid? The execution isn't the problem, it's the
concept. One's opinion isn't going to change from it being valid, to it being not valid, by how poor the execution is.
QuoteAll the film is doing is adding new options the Aliens can take in thier lifecycle, contradicting nothing, whilst also shedding some light on what happened to Lambert.
Could we stop f**kin' retconning
Alien already? It doesn't shed
any light on what happened to Lambert. Nothing does, and God willing, nothing ever will.
If we can't use past refrences in the defence whyy can you in the offence >:(
"Door swings both ways"
Uh, cos I'm not retconning when I use past instances? Hello?
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 08:39:07 PM
not noncanon ;D
Tell Ridley Scott she wasen't raped and most people who listen to noises...
Why do people insist on actually believing it was literal rape? She was raped in a sense of the word, not in a literal, sexual way. She was violated in the sense that the alien was sliding its tail around her and she felt totally helpless, but the tail did not go up her crotch. lol.
The fact that she was hanging, implies that the alien probably lifted her up with its tail and she struggled violently as it impaled her on a chain hanging there with hook on the end of it. The tail tore of her pant legs in the process.
I don't think the tail raped her!!! lol i think it did something else....
Sil most are is why i said that
Perhaps this regurgitation /vomiting method is really something more deep seated..perhaps it is a fetish reference
I found this interesting piece of info on that site as well:
"A queen will tend to lay eggs which are optimized for growing in a host like the type she was born from.
If an egg is laid in an optimal host, it is adapted to its environment and takes a full term to develop. If it is in a non-optimal host, it risks detection because of its alien metabolism and must therefore
develop rapidly. In such a case, the chestburster may appear immature.
This theory suggests that the embryo implanted in the crewman Kane aboard the Nostromo was a transitional form between Aliens optimized for humans and those optimized for the beings aboard the derelict spacecraft found on LV-426. The chestburster therefor emerged quickly and immature to avoid detection. Colonists on LV-426 were implanted by a human-born queen, allowing the gestation period to last full term. The creature encountered on Fury-161 was implanted in a dog by a human-born queen. This embryo was non-optimized, and hatched quickly. It was a transitional form between dogs and humans, just as the creature aboard the Nostromo was a transitional form. This theory could account for the varied appearance of the creatures."
But if this counts as official, (although it probably does not) That would actually make that rapid ass avp gestation make sense, provided the queen was not born from a human but something else. If they emerge quicker due to non-optimized host where the embryos are specifically adapted to growing in.
(Not that i have any interest in defending Paul Anderson. lol)
But then again, Paul Anderson had growth hormones as his defense and not this, which actually would have been a better defense. This idea might actually explain why the human born aliens, born from a human born queen in Aliens, were the only ones to have the ridged heads.
If that carries over to this new reproductive method in avp-r and not just regular eggs, shouldn't they be optimized for a predator as the host, and cause non optimal, aliens that develop quicker and and don't finish developing, thus don't have the ridged heads then?
Well i suppose this info is non-canon. But the explanations do make some sense, far more than this baseless bullshit we are presented with in this new reproductive vomit shit.
that's pretty interesting...that means if we do have a fast one in this movie...Predator born Transforming Queen and it is fast, it could go faster...but in Alien it was a long one which means that the Derlack must have been a human born Queen? Also Alien 3 gestation time was pretty fast....no one ever complains about that...and AR's
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 09:05:21 PM
that's pretty interesting...that means if we do have a fast one in this movie...Predator born Transforming Queen and it is fast, it could go faster...but in Alien it was a long one which means that the Derlack must have been a human born Queen? Also Alien 3 gestation time was pretty fast....no one ever complains about that...and AR's
No, you have it backwards. In the optimized host, gestation would be slower, allowing it more time to finish developing. In a non-optimized host, it has to burst out more quickly as the conditions are not to the specifications required for full and optimal development. (according to that info)
This theory would actually explain why the one that burst out of kane didn't apear to have the little arms that the one that burst out of the woman in aliens had. It didn't have time to develop further due to it not being in the optimized host that its queen came from, which was the space jockey race.
The more biomechanical look to the alien, could have very well been that it was indeed a "transitional form" between the aliens which would burst out from the jockey's and the ones that would burst out of a human.
i said it right exept Kane right...that impiles that spacejokey's where carrying Human suited Eggs right?
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 09:11:14 PM
i said it right exept Kane right...that impiles that spacejokey's where carrying Human suited Eggs right?
No, it carried eggs optimized by for the space jockeys, implying they were laid by a queen that burst out of them. And this cancels any possibllity of that queen being the same one seen in Aliens.
It wasn't optimized to have kane as a host, so it burst out more undeveloped. So it seems the actual optimized gestation period is more than a few hours for a chestburster. This makes sense in the timeframe in which the colony on lv-426 lost contact and the infestation broke out. Wasn't it weeks? The only reason they lasted that long, is because the gestation of each alien, was probably at least 12-14 hours as per speculation based upon this info.
ok....simple version
Human Queen+ Human=long
HQ+dog=Quick
Space Jokey+human should= Quick...but Kane had a long one...
Predalien Queen+human= Quick as well...
And that shits on that idea.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 09:20:35 PM
And that shits on that idea.
That's what i was thinking
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 09:17:33 PM
ok....simple version
Human Queen+ Human=long
HQ+dog=Quick
Space Jokey+human should= Quick...but Kane had a long one...
Predalien Queen+human= Quick as well...
Kane didn't have a long one. The chestburster was indeed undeveloped compared to the one in "Aliens". It didn't have the little arms and there was more blood, which could have meant it had to punch a lot harder and more violently to escape because it was less developed.
I'd estimate that in a non-optimal host it could take between 4 to 8 hours for gestation. How much time actually passed before it burst out of Kane, if its in that timeframe, this theory could be plausible, although, probably will be regarded as non-canon, as nothing is there to officially confirm it.
(once again, im just reporting on what theories are featured there, i never said i support them necessarily, but im trying to see if they could indeed make any amount of sense, and possibly find more ways in which this molting or vomiting will seem even more impossible.)
Kane was well over 24 hours. How is that not long?
and...The Dog Alien UNDERDEVOLPED? that thing was too devolped at the very least
We can speculate all we want but we wont know for sure unless someone involved in these movies comes out and says it outright.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 09:25:23 PM
Kane was well over 24 hours. How is that not long?
Well if that's the case, the proponents of this theory must have had a real long gestation time for an optimal host, maybe longer than 24 hours. Either that, or it is just a hindsight way of trying to explain other things, when the real information is unknown. lol.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 09:27:57 PM
Well if that's the case, the proponents of this theory must have had a real long gestation time for an optimal host, maybe longer than 24 hours. Either that, or it is just a hindsight way of trying to explain other things, when the real information is unknown. lol.
Two words.
Fan speculation.
it doesn't add up....so Sil we agree
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 09:28:28 PM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 09:27:57 PM
Well if that's the case, the proponents of this theory must have had a real long gestation time for an optimal host, maybe longer than 24 hours. Either that, or it is just a hindsight way of trying to explain other things, when the real information is unknown. lol.
Two words.
Fan speculation.
True, its quite similar to the anchorpoint essays and probably should be regarded in the same way that is. Also if i knew where the first bit of information, which contained the info mentioned above was originally from it would shed more light on things, it very well could be the pre-dna reflex idea of trying to explain the different aliens seen in alien 3, and the fact that the ones in Aliens had the ridged heads and the first one didn't.
Once again, i am not arguing these theories must be true, but rather the info is interesting and worth sharing.
Now, a true question is why some Aliens have ridges and some don't....a question never to be answered it seems
i think it was speculater that the ridges appear with age, young aliens hav the smooth cowl while older 1s hav the ridges...thats just what iv heard(on the anchorpoint essay i think)
you think all this peolpe who like and is in favour of new RC stuff , what kind of reaction could haved been if nobody never known nothing about before, if nothing have leaked,and just sit in theatre then the scene comes in theyr eyes straight
...a big surprise...
a big amazing surprise? ???
p.s. sorry if my english may be not perfect
Oh, I'm counting on many people coming here and voicing their animosity or support of this new reproduction cycle well after December.
it could be liked yea....if based as seen on screen...
also i think the age thing is the best explenation if AVP-R doesn't conflict with that then it must be something else
unfortunatly i think avp-r is just using the ridged head cuz it looks cool...
Well considering that this info was gathered from various non-canon sources for the aliens role playing game.
your going to love this one:
"A queen, once detached from her egg sac, can actually carry up to six eggs on her back. This is necessary if the hive is threatened and the populace must relocate. "
lol. I think I'll stop seriously considering any theories on the site now. lol.
Quote from: megachu17 on Oct 29, 2007, 09:39:52 PM
unfortunatly i think avp-r is just using the ridged head cuz it looks cool...
There's nothing bad about that, as we already have explanations as to why. I couldn't mind either way.
What doesn't make sense is things like the shell-crest fusion on the PredAlien.
Well this one isen't crazy based on facts it makes sense...
still i do love ridges
yea, the ridged heads look the best, but it will probably conflict with that particular definition of the difference between smooth and ridged cowls.
it doesn't have to thought, we might get a little bit of time for them to have devloped the ridges...
The creatures in Aliens had ridges because the clear domes were too fragile for the kind of action Cameron wanted to see on screen. I guess you can try to fit that into the life cycle if you want, but it was a production decision.
SiL: When a queen dies the colony dies as well after the sterile workers perish from old age UNLESS it is a multiple-queen nest. Breeder ants are born that way, no one molts into them. In the spring the winged fertile ants mate, the males die, and the newly fertilized queens shed their wings and start their own colonies.
In some primitive species of ants workers can lay eggs that will grow into sterile males. However, that does not in any way constitute a new queen, nor is any molting taking place.
I just did a really quick google search and found a few dozen articles on the first two pages explaining this so if you really want to check it out it's there and I can link you if you want. Wikipedia is also always there, but of course it can't be counted on 100%.
I did find ONE interesting thing I didn't know though; it turns out that sometimes a new queen can be adopted after she mates provided that she is related closely enough to the original to still have similar genetics.
So anyway, if you can find me one source that says a sterile worker ant can molt into a new queen then I will surely look more into it. If not then I am afraid you are wrong or were misled by someone.
Wow...never think i'd se the day when Sil would consider Aliens bound by Ants forms of reproduction....
news flash: were talking about aliens...not ants
Comparing them to ants isn't bad. It's just that people attach the stereotype of stupid insects requiring a hive mind to so much as stay organized to any insect reference, which perpetuates the negative aspects of the "bug" comparison to the Alien in tandem.
well i'm not saying Aliens can't do something because ants can't....ants can't bleed acid either
The ant thing is sort of a side discussion SiL and I are having. Obviously ants aren't aliens. Sorry if this is getting in the way of the intended debate here.
Even if James Cameron, Ridley Scott, David Fincher, and Colin all sat at a table and discussed this it wouldn't be resolved. I've come to the conclusion that the directors just don't care as much about the logic behind the creature as the fans do. They care about making great movies and they all have different ideas. The resulting contradictions are pretty lame, but at the end of the day you have to remember that aliens aren't real and they are just movies. If you can't enjoy them for what they are, then that's totally your right.
To be honest, I hate this new idea and AVPR has lossed a lot of credit with me as a result (aside from the fact that I wish no AVP movies were EVER made). However, Alien 3 is my favorite of the original trilogy and that movie is full of continuity problems and leaps of faith. If the movie is good enough I might be able to look past this bad idea... but it would have to be pretty mindblowing to get me to do that, and I don't see how it would be.
The creatures in Aliens had ridges because the clear domes were too fragile for the kind of action Cameron wanted to see on screen. I guess you can try to fit that into the life cycle if you want, but it was a production decision.
exatly...guys not to offense, myself too try to explain the possible i can, and i like that, but...if tomorrow directors made the decision to make aliens who shots fireballs from ass...we what hell have to do? pass entire days to argue and try to explain that in scientific way?
...sad but true...
p.s. every reference is purelly fortuitous
We all knew y they used them but since they did might as well make it work with Aliens life cycle
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Oct 29, 2007, 10:02:50 PM
The ant thing is sort of a side discussion SiL and I are having. Obviously ants aren't aliens. Sorry if this is getting in the way of the intended debate here.
Even if James Cameron, Ridley Scott, David Fincher, and Colin all sat at a table and discussed this it wouldn't be resolved. I've come to the conclusion that the directors just don't care as much about the logic behind the creature as the fans do. They care about making great movies and they all have different ideas. The resulting contradictions are pretty lame, but at the end of the day you have to remember that aliens aren't real and they are just movies. If you can't enjoy them for what they are, then that's totally your right.
To be honest, I hate this new idea and AVPR has lossed a lot of credit with me as a result (aside from the fact that I wish no AVP movies were EVER made). However, Alien 3 is my favorite of the original trilogy and that movie is full of continuity problems and leaps of faith. If the movie is good enough I might be able to look past this bad idea... but it would have to be pretty mindblowing to get me to do that, and I don't see how it would be.
Its taken me over a hundred pages to agree with someone. Your spot on.
There are already too many holes to be having baby's over a new idea that might serve the film better.
Well, I thought the ridged skulls were from age. To me, the creature in ALIEN was seen growing within a matter of hours and not days, thus the reason we never saw it have the ridged cowl.
Sure, the Aliens grow really fast, anyways, but I think for it to mature to the ridged head, it would at least take more than 24 hrs.
In ALIENS, those creatures were probably there for days-months. I find it difficult to believe that Hadley's Hope, after being on LV-426 for so long, all of sudden found the Derelict the same time Ripley was just being rescued.
Of course, could Newt survive months alone? I don't know, but she did a damn good job of staying away from the creatures.
BTW, I noticed that some of the Alien 3 sculptures/designs had the ridged head (as seen in behind-the scenes video), but we never saw that in the film. So, those were just stunt suits that were made to look like that for no reason?
Then there are the Alien: Ressurection and AVP Aliens, which didn't have the ridged heads, but again, maybe it was because the movies took place in hours and not days...
Maybe AVP-R spans within days, and that's why the Aliens form ridged heads.
Or maybe the Aliens in AVP-R have ridged heads, because of the sped-up special hormones? Maybe it carried on with the PredAlien/facehuggers.
The problem is with that the number of Aliens outnumber the number of chestburster victims in AvP, meaning some of the smooth heads are at LEAST 100 years old, if not older.
Quote from: Xhan on Oct 29, 2007, 10:23:46 PM
The problem is with that the number of Aliens outnumber the number of chestburster victims in AvP, meaning some of the smooth heads are at LEAST 100 years old, if not older.
that's just a f**k up. Or maybe its not. The aliens from miller and veirheiden and those losers account for some of them. Remember the f**ked up gestation acceleration?
Robocop 3 had robot ninjas. Hellraiser 4 took place on a space ship. The raptors in Jurassic Park 4 are going to shoot guns. Batman & Robin cast an Austrian body builder as Mr. Freeze.
Sometimes, sequels in popular series have stupid ideas because the directors think they're cool. These ideas don't have to be scientifically explained. They don't have to logically fit into a vast pre-existing mythology. They don't even have to be accepted as canon. They are what they are: random, experimental ideas that the directors think are cool, that may or may not piss all over the fans.
The AVP:R vomit idea sounds like one of the above. If you're a fan, and you don't like it, ignore it. There's absolutely no reason to shoehorn it into an established backstory just because it appeared on the silver screen. That would be completely ludicrous and irrational.
It's all up to the directors and art designers. I like it both ways and I don't feel the need to justify the physical differences between the different films because every director has a different vision. If you want to justify it then you can easily say to yourself "it's a friggin' alien! Who knows why that happens!" Besides, a LOT more than the shape of the head changes from one film to the other.
Also, in Alien and Alien 3 the dome of the head is transparent. The ridges present in Aliens are still there is both movies, just covered. You probably saw some shots of the suit with the dome removed.
Quote from: Accaris on Oct 29, 2007, 10:27:07 PM
Robocop 3 had robot ninjas. Hellraiser 4 took place on a space ship. The raptors in Jurassic Park 4 are going to shoot guns. Batman & Robin cast an Austrian body builder as Mr. Freeze.
Sometimes, sequels in popular series have stupid ideas because the directors think they're cool. These ideas don't have to be scientifically explained. They don't have to logically fit into a vast pre-existing mythology. They don't even have to be accepted as canon. They are what they are: random, experimental ideas that the directors think are cool, that may or may not piss all over the fans.
The AVP:R vomit idea sounds like one of the above. If you're a fan, and you don't like it, ignore it. There's absolutely no reason to shoehorn it into an established backstory just because it appeared on the silver screen. That would be completely ludicrous and irrational.
WHAAAAAA?
Quote from: Alienseseses on Oct 29, 2007, 10:32:04 PM
Quote from: Accaris on Oct 29, 2007, 10:27:07 PM
Robocop 3 had robot ninjas. Hellraiser 4 took place on a space ship. The raptors in Jurassic Park 4 are going to shoot guns. Batman & Robin cast an Austrian body builder as Mr. Freeze.
Sometimes, sequels in popular series have stupid ideas because the directors think they're cool. These ideas don't have to be scientifically explained. They don't have to logically fit into a vast pre-existing mythology. They don't even have to be accepted as canon. They are what they are: random, experimental ideas that the directors think are cool, that may or may not piss all over the fans.
The AVP:R vomit idea sounds like one of the above. If you're a fan, and you don't like it, ignore it. There's absolutely no reason to shoehorn it into an established backstory just because it appeared on the silver screen. That would be completely ludicrous and irrational.
WHAAAAAA?
Widely circulating rumor has it that the script for JP4 is about the government training dinosaurs for use in combat. I'm probably exaggerrating with the above example, but, what I said about silly ideas still stands.
Quote from: Accaris on Oct 29, 2007, 10:27:07 PM
Robocop 3 had robot ninjas. Hellraiser 4 took place on a space ship. The raptors in Jurassic Park 4 are going to shoot guns. Batman & Robin cast an Austrian body builder as Mr. Freeze.
Sometimes, sequels in popular series have stupid ideas because the directors think they're cool. These ideas don't have to be scientifically explained. They don't have to logically fit into a vast pre-existing mythology. They don't even have to be accepted as canon. They are what they are: random, experimental ideas that the directors think are cool, that may or may not piss all over the fans.
The AVP:R vomit idea sounds like one of the above. If you're a fan, and you don't like it, ignore it. There's absolutely no reason to shoehorn it into an established backstory just because it appeared on the silver screen. That would be completely ludicrous and irrational.
Th reason it makes us so mad when stuff like that happens is because we have to accept it. Once on screen it cannot be undone.
Yeah, that idea has been floating around the internet for a long time (regarding JP4). It has been going through the rumor mill forever, once in a while popping up again on Rotten Tomatoes or Aint It Cool. I'll believe it when I see something really official regarding it, but I wouldn't think it to be far fetched. However, it's always been in vague terms. Something about teaching dinosaurs to use weapons. It never literally says that raptors will hold guns.
Either way the idea is awful, but Jurassic Park 3 made me stop caring about the series long ago.
There gonna use a wa...
Quote from: automirage04 on Oct 29, 2007, 10:34:59 PM
Th reason it makes us so mad when stuff like that happens is because we have to accept it. Once on screen it cannot be undone.
Why?
I refuse to believe AVP ever happened. I just didn't see it and never will. End of story for me.
Quote
Th reason it makes us so mad when stuff like that happens is because we have to accept it. Once on screen it cannot be undone.
Why?
Nobody accepts the ideas that I presented as remotely valid. This franchise isn't special.
Also, it's worth mentioning that the more you try to fit horrible ideas and horrible movies into the canon the more encouragement you give people who wants to make some off the wall idea of theirs part of film history.
The fact that some people here validate ANYthing about what Paul Anderson did with the series is completely beyond me. That guy deserves to be forgotten not immortalized by trying to justify his idiocy.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 10:27:00 PM
Quote from: Xhan on Oct 29, 2007, 10:23:46 PM
The problem is with that the number of Aliens outnumber the number of chestburster victims in AvP, meaning some of the smooth heads are at LEAST 100 years old, if not older.
that's just a f**k up. Or maybe its not. The aliens from miller and veirheiden and those losers account for some of them. Remember the f**ked up gestation acceleration?
If that's the case then AvP Aliens can grow to COMPLETE maturity in ten minutes. Literally.
Quote from: Xhan on Oct 29, 2007, 10:43:27 PM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 10:27:00 PM
Quote from: Xhan on Oct 29, 2007, 10:23:46 PM
The problem is with that the number of Aliens outnumber the number of chestburster victims in AvP, meaning some of the smooth heads are at LEAST 100 years old, if not older.
that's just a f**k up. Or maybe its not. The aliens from miller and veirheiden and those losers account for some of them. Remember the f**ked up gestation acceleration?
If that's the case then AvP Aliens can grow to COMPLETE maturity in ten minutes. Literally.
The AVP:R script has the predalien growing to complete maturity in ten seconds. Literally.
The preds f**ked with the dna so its possible. As far as the ridges go it has to be something other than age. These aliens will not be as old as the ones in Aliens.
Well, that's true though. Every director has brought in their own ideas to the cycle of the Aliens or how they should look/act. In every Predator movie, the Predator willl look different, use new weapons and possibly act differently.
It's trying to make things new/fresh I guess. Not necessary to explain how anything that is introduced will fit correctly within the previous films. Sure, the directors will try to connect things we already know to what they are introducing, but the Alien movies still have alot of plot holes and probably, always will. Not all the questions/mysteries will be answered.
What bothers me most of what people are complaining about is that this regurgitation method does not work, because... they have never seen a young Queen, that was "free" and between the stages of a chestburster and egg sac laying...and the regurgiation (not vomit) is something an Alien would not do (uh, facehugger)?
Seriously, open your minds to what happens, during the time a Queen is between the stages of chestburster and laying eggs with the egg sac. You DONT know what an Alien Queen does.
Do the Strauses "know"? Well, they thought up an idea. Maybe the idea works for some people and others it might not (even though no one has seen the movie yet!). That's the Strauses idea, just like Cameron's idea of introducing a Queen in ALIENS, like Ridley introducing the egg-morphing idea, the facehugging idea...basically any introduced idea.
Colin is right. The Alien cycle can be "expanded", without breaking what we know and have SEEN. WE have not seen what a free Queen does, when it's not ready to produce eggs.
Maybe the Alien warrirors have the ability to molt into Queens. The more I think it about, since they are Aliens, it's not that far-fetched. Am I saying the Aliens could also grow wings? No. If the ideas are logical and they make sense, either for cycle purposes or story purposes, fine.
maybe one plausibly theory to explain all those things( ridged /smooth heads, new RC ec ec ) in a scientific way is the dementia of whom work behind this francise
now let's try to explain in plausible ways this kind of dementia of theirs
Anyone can have their opinions on the regurgitation method, even before watching the movie. Nothing wrong with that. But trying to convince people it's not possible is kind of ironic, because we only know of the Alien cycle, from what we have SEEN.
We have not SEEN AVP-R therefore, don't make a final judgement, until you see the film.
The main point is, whether you like it or not, is that the Alien cycle can be expanded. Always has been...always will be. That's what's so great about this species is that they can be unpredictable and we get to see something new about them in every movie.
From what we have not seen, there have been many theories of what goes on in the stages of an Alien, which may or may not make sense.
Indeed, its an open field. The Strauses have been able to add to the cycle, whether you like it or not. Complain, bitch all you want, but they got the opportunity. Blame Hollywood for hiring them, if you don't like it.
Accept this regurgitation method is in the film and wait to see the film, before hating the Strauses completely.
I understand that people are upset by this new addition, but unfortunately, it is NOT breaking anything. It's a stage of a (Queen) cycle you have not seen. Time to write another section in the Alien dictionary, so to speak.
There were ideas brought up in Alien:Resurrection and AVP that didn't work, but the idea that is introduced in AVP-R makes much more sense.
The egg-morphing, again, an idea by Ridley/writers to explain how the Alien reproduced, before Cameron was able to bring in the Queen. Just another idea to add to the cycle, but now is lost, because of the inclusion of the Queen.
What's with the 'You can't hate the idea until you see it' crap?
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 11:10:46 PM
What's with the 'You can't hate the idea until you see it' crap?
I'm sure if we were in 1986 there'd be people saying the Queen as stupid to...
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 11:13:03 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 11:10:46 PM
What's with the 'You can't hate the idea until you see it' crap?
I'm sure if we were in 1986 there'd be people saying the Queen as stupid to...
I would. ;)
Quote from: Aeus on Oct 29, 2007, 11:15:37 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 11:13:03 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 11:10:46 PM
What's with the 'You can't hate the idea until you see it' crap?
I'm sure if we were in 1986 there'd be people saying the Queen as stupid to...
I would. ;)
would the Movie change your mind lol...it would mine
Well, you can hate the idea. However, is it totally right to hate it, without seeing it?
Sil, I understand your reasons for not liking this and at first, when I heard about this regurgitation, I didn't like it, but after thinking about it and what Colin said in his defense, to me, it made sense.
I have already explained my theories about this whole thing many times on here already, so I won't repeat. But it makes sense.
I don't doubt you have a great knowldge of these creatures, but there are still stages of this creature we do NOT know about and how else can they be known, other than a director sharing their ideas on screen? That's how we know about the Aliens, is what we have seen on screen. Everything else that has not been seen can be speculated.
Well, the Strauses have added another piece to the puzzle of the cycle, whether we like it or not.
I'm asking everyone to not close their minds completely, until you see the damn film. If you hate what happens in the film, fine.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 11:10:46 PM
What's with the 'You can't hate the idea until you see it' crap?
lack of imagination, maybe. Lol. People can't envision how stupid it might look, until they actually see it onscreen.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 11:13:03 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 11:10:46 PM
What's with the 'You can't hate the idea until you see it' crap?
I'm sure if we were in 1986 there'd be people saying the Queen as stupid to...
Exactly.
well if you think its stupid you'll probally picture it stupidly
Okay, I've noticed a lot of people are up in arms over the idea that the Predalien (who appears to be a young queen as well) can produce chestbursters in human victims by vomiting in their face. Many are angered by this, and I must ask...why?
If you don't want to devote your time to reading my entire post, I'll sum it up. The addition of this new method of reproduction is no different than the additions made in Aliens and Alien 3, and like those additions, you will all accept this one over time whether you realize it now or not.
Now, as I was saying...why?
Yes, why? Why are you people so angry that something new was actually added? It's not like there's an entire encylopedia on Aliens. There are many things we don't know about them, just like how we knew next to nothing about the creature of the first Alien film. Viewers in 1979 had no idea that the creature had a hive mentality, or took orders from a monstrous queen, or took traits from it's host. No one.
But in time, those things were added (not always-been-there-secretly, ADDED) to the mythology of the creature. They could have easily made Alien 2 and did nothing new with the creature, and it still would have become the major franchise it is now. It didn't need a queen. Those eggs could have easily been layed by just another Alien. After all, most species here on Earth don't need a Queen to lay eggs, do they? Are ducks spawned from queen ducks? I didn't think so.
Yeah, so you can say "Well, that's not Alien enough. The Queen theory makes it more Alien." Do you have a brain? Can you read? Do you have ears or anything? Originally, the Alien was to turn people into the eggs. (And don't give me "they didn't know about it in '79" because they did. Just like how you know about deleted scenes for films just coming out, they did then, and they didn't need the internet.) How many creatures on Earth do you know that do that? Less than there are creatures that are spawned from Queens and work in hives. Believe it or not, people were actually pissed about that idea back in '86. Same goes for the hybridism theory, that they take the traits of their hosts, and that has since been accepted as well.
Every Alien film has introduced something new to the creature, whether large or small in nature. Aliens introduced the hive, and the queen. Alien 3 introduced hybridism. It could be argued that Alien Resurrection introduced the idea that Aliens are able to breathe under water, and are capable of choosing hive needs over individual needs (when they killed a comrade so they could escape). It could also be argued that the climate of the surrounding area could affect the rate of fertility (the embryo's grow faster in colder climates so they can quicker adapt to the cold).
Think about this for a second. Do you think it's just sheer coincidence that the most praised of the Alien films introduced the most radical additions to the creature? Aliens and Alien 3 (to a lesser extent) are held at a much higher standard than A:R and AvP, and they introduced two major additions to the way the creature works.
What I'm ultimately getting to, is that this new way of reproducing not only makes sense literally, but further Alienates the creatures that are supposed to be so Alien. First of all, who builds the Hive when the queen grows? And don't give me "Queens are born Queens" because it's never been shown how they grow. Just because it's got the signature crown as a chestburster doesn't mean it immediately becomes a queen. Also, who guards the Queen as she lays the initial eggs?
I know what you're thinking. "She has plenty of time to evolve as there usually isn't any people around until she's grown enough." If you are thinking that, you must not be that smart, because wherever there is an Alien, there are lifeforms that are able to support it's method of reproduction. Also, when not at it's final stage of development, it is surely vulnerable to it's surroundings (hard to believe given what we've seen, I know, but we're not Aliens).
Metaphorically, it makes the Aliens even more Alien, and emphasizes the sexuality of them, while at the same time further androgynizes them. The idea of vomiting seed into people's faces can easily be equated with (and let's be mature here) ejaculation of seed from a male to a female. It's very sexual in nature, and fully goes along with sexuality of the design of the creature by Giger, and I'm sure that it's an idea he would fully support.
You people who are so furious and bitter toward the Bros. Strause should start directing your anger toward James Cameron as well, because he did nothing different than they're doing here: introducing a totally new, unnecessary-yet-interesting concept to the creatures that we don't really know and love.
This is how I feel and I do not ask that anyone else feels this way.
i agree with you 100%
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 11:19:27 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 11:10:46 PM
What's with the 'You can't hate the idea until you see it' crap?
lack of imagination, maybe. Lol. People can't envision how stupid it might look, until they actually see it onscreen.
Amen. Suddenly a hen started to vomit chickens insted of laying eggs. But of course there is nothing wrong with it. Maybe there are existing some parts of hen`s life cycle that we don`t know. :-X
Hens and Aliens come for completely diffrent places and have been watched for years...aliens for less then a week
Quote from: Master on Oct 29, 2007, 11:41:25 PM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 29, 2007, 11:19:27 PM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2007, 11:10:46 PM
What's with the 'You can't hate the idea until you see it' crap?
lack of imagination, maybe. Lol. People can't envision how stupid it might look, until they actually see it onscreen.
Amen. Suddenly a hen started to vomit chickens insted of laying eggs. But of course there is nothing wrong with it. Maybe there are existing some parts of hen`s life cycle that we don`t know. :-X
Yeah, 'cause after all, don't chicken eggs come from massive queen chickens? ::)
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 11:13:03 PM
I'm sure if we were in 1986 there'd be people saying the Queen as stupid to...
People did think it, people
still think it. I'm one of them. Awesome visual, naff concept.
i agree with him and im glad to see more people aren't accepting the revolts against a small detail.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 30, 2007, 12:26:27 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 11:13:03 PM
I'm sure if we were in 1986 there'd be people saying the Queen as stupid to...
People did think it, people still think it. I'm one of them. Awesome visual, naff concept.
The majorty likes it...so what's your final vote on it you like or not?
Not a fan of the concept. Would've been nice to have had a monster which didn't turn out to be some sort of giant insect/funny looking man for once. But nooo...
Queen is pretty awesome looking thought...
Like I said. Awesome visual, not much else.
Good way to answer where the eggs came from
Egg morphing was sufficient, alien, and downright horrifying. Mega Alien Mass Pooper Boss Fight Monster was just a poor excuse for a last act spectacle and a means to dumb down - So admitted Cameron - the Alien to facilitate a wider audience.
Well Cameron just did the most logical thing to do, with the absence of the Egg morphing scene
Again, what Cameron did was hardly 'logical' insofar as turning Aliens into intergalactic eight foor tall ants is concerned. And the Queen itself wasn't the only other possibility open.
Quote from: Rabbit2100 on Oct 30, 2007, 12:27:06 AM
i agree with him and im glad to see more people aren't accepting the revolts against a small detail.
small detail...so RC become now a small detail? i asume ridge not ridge /head can be small detail
maybe i have got wrong...but...
Quote from: Fitzley on Oct 30, 2007, 12:45:22 AM
Quote from: Gremlien on Oct 30, 2007, 12:43:50 AM
There are over 2000 replies in that thread, with about a new one a second. I don't care how much space mine takes up, it'd be glossed over in an instant.
As it should be, your opinion is not privileged over any others just because it is YOURS.
Never said it was.
Yea we could have them reproduce by maunally facehugger raping them...
maybe not logical but a very good way, wouldn't say easy because he put alot of work into that old girl
A lot of work into designing and realising, yes, but it was the easy way out re the life cycle.
True, but it works really makes sense, and other ways like eggmorping and the new method can exist because aliens adapt
have they ever actually put egg morphing lifecycle in any other stories.
I know they put in a game one time, but what about stories such as books or comics?
Quote from: Gremlien on Oct 30, 2007, 12:43:50 AM
There are over 2000 replies in that thread, with about a new one a second. I don't care how much space mine takes up, it'd be glossed over in an instant.
Uh, like you glossed over the points which would have provided the answers to the questions? :)
I'm merging this.
Then I'm Photoshopping up a flow chart thing, demonstrating why it's not the
concept of whether or not this suits the Aliens, but the
canon issues which have got so many people frustrated about this.
I know a lot of people seem to keep repeating the mantra, "But it preserves canon," but it doesn't. If I can work this chart thing up, you'll see why and it'll save me having to keep typing reasons out and stuff.
QuoteJust because it's got the signature crown as a chestburster doesn't mean it immediately becomes a queen.
You seriously need to see '
Alien Resurrection' again.
Why do you have to be that way xeno, his post was actually intelligent, it doesn't belong in this unhelpful, and sometimes violently off topic thread, it deserves to be on its own.
I vote for an un-merge
great post Gremlien, very great post.
Also, for anyone questioning this new method, I have two questions
Hve we ever seen anything but a Queen burster or a full grown Queen in these films?
Have we ever seen anything other then the queen burster or full grown Queen interact with a host, or potential host?
If it has not been addressed in the films, it is completely fair game to expansion or anything of the like, its simply adding to the whole piece of the Alien mythos, a piece that will likely not be fully completed ever, get used to filmmakers adding to the mythos, because its going to happen.
Thank god complatative message boards like these weren't around when Aliens and Alien 3 got made, or else this franchise would not be the franchise it is today...I'm just glad the Strause Bros were willing to do something that hasn't been done before, without wrecking this creature, much like Cameron and Fincher, not saying they are as great as either of those two, just giving an example.
It's not fair to TOTALLY hate an idea, when you have not seen the movie. Sure, you can expect or "envision" it to look stupid, but to have not seen the film and "close the book" of your opinion right now...you're not giving the film/filmmakers a chance.
I'm not telling people to change their minds...but to keep their minds open, especially, before the release of the movie.
Again, the cycle of the Aliens can be "expanded", because it's Hollywood/Science-Fiction. We are not dealing with a non-fiction species, such as a chicken, which we know more facts about, because other than being real, we have studied them. We of course, know more about chickens than the Aliens, because there are people who spend their lives raising them. Aliens on the other hand, again, all you are getting is what you see in the films. You are not following the life of an Alien 24/7. We are only seeing what is mainly crucial for the plot.
What you have seen in the Alien movies does not mean that is what SHOULD be known about them.
Just because of what Hollywood established with the Alien cycle in previous movies, does NOT mean that is ALL we should know/learn about this species. Why "close the book" on the Alien cycle, when it's obvious that there can be MORE added. Hopefully, whatever is added is logical and makes sense to the cycle.
But to respond to this regurgitation method as just "stupid" or "will look stupid", without seeing the film, is only an opinion that can only be made, just because of the idea, but have yet to see the execution on-screen. Which is fine to think it will be stupid, but don't try to convince others it IS stupid, before the release date.
What about all the Alien comics, novels and videogames...should all of those ideas of the Alien cycle mentioned in them, be thrown out the window, just because you have not seen them on film? They don't count?
People aren't don't like change...apparently that's the case
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 30, 2007, 01:12:43 AM
You seriously need to see 'Alien Resurrection' again.
And A:R is the crowned standard of the series. Also, I fail to recall A:R ever showing the chestburster molt into the queen.
Gremlien,
That new thread/post you made was great and I'm glad it was merged to this thread.
still, even in A:R, we saw a queen burster, then a fully grown queen providing eggs, I'm sure at one younger stage in its life, had a host been provided for her, she would have regurgitated the hell into them...
That's what i think to or its only molting Queens that do that
Quote from: Docta Jekyll on Oct 30, 2007, 01:40:05 AM
still, even in A:R, we saw a queen burster, then a fully grown queen providing eggs, I'm sure at one younger stage in its life, had a host been provided for her, she would have regurgitated the hell into them...
EXACTLY.
Quotestill, even in A:R, we saw a queen burster, then a fully grown queen providing eggs, I'm sure at one younger stage in its life, had a host been provided for her, she would have regurgitated the hell into them...
For what purpose?
If anything Resurrection shows us Queens produce eggs - and that's about it. Without resorting to complete garbage like barfing.
thanks for giving it a chance ;D
Quote from: SM on Oct 30, 2007, 01:43:42 AM
Quotestill, even in A:R, we saw a queen burster, then a fully grown queen providing eggs, I'm sure at one younger stage in its life, had a host been provided for her, she would have regurgitated the hell into them...
If anything Resurrection shows us Queens produce eggs - and that's about it.
Which is why anything between chestburster and fullly grown Queen is fair game.
Quote from: Docta Jekyll on Oct 30, 2007, 01:40:05 AM
still, even in A:R, we saw a queen burster, then a fully grown queen providing eggs, I'm sure at one younger stage in its life, had a host been provided for her, she would have regurgitated the hell into them...
Yep. This is what we/Colin are talking about. No one has seen the Queen between the stages of burster to egg sac (when imobile), so WHY doesn't this regurgitation method work? Because of what? So, it will "look" stupid...that's why the idea doesn't work (even though the film is not out yet)?
Once again, have an open mind. Yes, something new has been added, but it doesn't break anything. This is an addition to the Queen cycle and not something that would hurt a Alien warrior cycle.
Hmm...are people more concerned of how it will look on-screen, or that it is something added to the cycle of the Queen (something that was NEVER touched upon in earlier films)?
AR showed the stage between burster and egg sack. She just stood there.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 30, 2007, 01:50:51 AM
AR showed the stage between burster and egg sack. She just stood there.
She was in a cage.
What would she vomit into?
What was she gonna try to impregnate the wall?..oh i know maybe a coachroach
But she wasn't free, Sil. She wasn't running around the ship.
Sil, what are you confused about with the idea of this method? Did you read my theory on this (even though it MAY not be the real reason)?
I'm not saying my theory is valid, but it makes sense.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 30, 2007, 01:32:55 AM
People aren't don't like change...apparently that's the case
depends what change
so for exemple in spiderman 5 if it ever will be , spiderman stop to kick ass of the two o three usual supervillain and become an hispanish soap opera only because he done the same thing in all previous films and someone is tired and want to do something fresh and new
maybe the example don't work well but surelly you have understud the point
i really don't understand this...there's ways and ways to make fresh and new things, without put a risk coerence and credibility of a franchise...as long as someone really care of such things like consistency and coerence obviously
just a point. :)
Quotethanks for giving it a chance
I honestly cannot be f**ked giving this travesty anything - let alone a chance.
When people ragged on Alien3 shortcomings I defended it. When people ragged on Res I defended it. With AvP I gave up, but it was more disappointment than out and out hatred.
Just about everything I've heard and seen about this film HAS invoked out and out hatred and anger.
It really surprises me that so many people are okay with the shit sandwich being served up - but then if major changes were made to Predator I wouldn't give a toss as I suspect a lot of Predator fans don't give a toss about the PredAlien.
only problem with this? we've seen what Spiderman does in the sitation....we've never sen this sitaition on top of that Aliens are called adaptable...i call this adapting
i care about both and the Predalien depending on the change i might like it or not
This regurgitation is not risking anything. It HELPS us understand the Queen much more, actually. This is really an intersting survival method. We know the Queen is a tough bitch and this proves it even more, IMO.
I don't want to understand the Aliens.
And even if I did, this would the last thing I'd want. It's worse than anything the comics ever cooked up.
i beg to differ bout comics....comics can have some acid trip ideas...
also its not understanding its jsut adding to them, making them look more adaptable like you people claim they are
It all about being adaptable within the established rules.
Not making shit up because they couldn't abide by those rules.
Aliens aren't invincible nor are they immortal. I see no problem with a Queen hiding someplace warm and laying eggs till she expires. The eggs will last well after she's gone.
SM,
You defended the other movies with your opinion, why should you stop?
Are you totally against this regurgiation idea? If you don't want to learn about the Aliens, then just enjoy what is on screen (like the general audiences might).
Quote from: SM on Oct 30, 2007, 02:07:11 AM
It all about being adaptable within the established rules.
Not making shit up because they couldn't abide by those rules.
Aliens aren't invincible nor are they immortal. I see no problem with a Queen hiding someplace warm and laying eggs till she expires. The eggs will last well after she's gone.
Pretty much what I was about to write, but better than I'd have worded it. :)
Wow, way to misread people.
"We've never seen the stage between a burster and an egg-laying Queen!"
"Yeah we did. In AR"
"But it was in a cage!"
...uh, what? Yeah, it was in a cage - How does that suddenly not make it the transitional stage between burster and adult?
The 'Well, they're adaptable' excuse is also crap, because there's no limit to it. If we use that to defend any change, we could easily have flying Aliens that barf adults and fire sub machine guns made out of whale bones because, shit, they're adaptable.
ok but i'm with you entirely when you say adaptable but you don't thing in a future this thing can run out of the border and maybe from now until next avp films or alien film, if ever will be , we see another 1 or 2 ways of reproductions maybe in the mix, or the alien adapt to come back from the death for preservation of the species,why then aliens don't just adapt to come back from the dead,so? or learn to use crap tecnology...
you know how people are and how work certain things...
what do you think?
seriously i hope we NEVER see things like these
Quote from: SiL on Oct 30, 2007, 02:09:16 AM
Wow, way to misread people.
"But it was in a cage!"
...uh, what? Yeah, it was in a cage - How does that suddenly not make it the transitional stage between burster and adult?
Wow, way to misread, Sil. Yeah, it was in a cage, but you miss the point. There was no one in there that it could regurgitate into. Considering that the Aliens of A:R are supposed to be "smarter" I doubt that it would have attempted it unless there was someone in there to impregnate.
Sil said it here first Aliens can't adapt when needed...
what think adapting is following the rules? adapting is surviving anyway you can and that's what Aliens do...if you wanna see aliens do the same thing every movie that's fine put alien and Aliens on mute and mac your own scripts.
QuoteYou defended the other movies with your opinion, why should you stop?
Nothing I've heard so far is worth defending.
Add to that the marked lack of respect to what's gone before. Why should I bother?
QuoteAre you totally against this regurgiation idea? If you don't want to learn about the Aliens, then just enjoy what is on screen (like the general audiences might).
A general audience hasn't devoted years of their life to studying and celebrating and generally just being a fan of this series of films. If a general audience digs on it - good for them. I'm not "the general audience".
QuoteWow, way to misread, Sil. Yeah, it was in a cage, but you miss the point. There was no one in there that it could regurgitate into. Considering that the Aliens of A:R are supposed to be "smarter" I doubt that it would have attempted it unless there was someone in there to impregnate.
I'm not sure if you're getting it. The Alien Queen just sat there till it was grown and started laying. That's the Queen's sole purpose. Nothing about her trying to escape and create an army to defend her before she starts laying.
Who says she didn't try to escape? probably did and got a cold blast like her kids did when they tried
QuoteWho says she didn't try to escape? probably did and got a cold blast like her kids did when they tried
So she's perfectly aware she's under constant threat - and started laying anyway.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 29, 2007, 11:13:03 PM
I'm sure if we were in 1986 there'd be people saying the Queen as stupid to...
I haven't stopped for 21 years
Quote from: SM on Oct 30, 2007, 02:19:59 AM
QuoteWho says she didn't try to escape? probably did and got a cold blast like her kids did when they tried
So she's perfectly aware she's under constant threat - and started laying anyway.
try to lay eggs> not even trying
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 30, 2007, 02:13:05 AM
Sil said it here first Aliens can't adapt when needed...
What the hell, dude? Seriously, does this bullshit just
flow from your fingertips or something?
Once again, this regurgitation method is a survival tact for the Queen, when she is free and at the stage of when she can't produce via egg sac. If she is not free and contained, as we saw in Alien Reurrection, then yes, she sits on her ass and grows into the egg laying creature. Just like an animal in a zoo, they are not free to roam around to do what they probably would do in the wild.
Sil, think of the situation of a young Queen, running around, with no Alien warriors around to help, what is she supposed to do, until a hive can be made and she is able to produce via egg sac? That is the situation AVP-R is bringing up.
SM, I didn't mean you were a "general audience" person, by the statement.
This isen't a crazy change if they can't do this...they defantly can't adapt anything else by your standerds and be exepted
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 30, 2007, 02:24:38 AM
This isen't a crazy change if they can't do this...they defantly can't adapt anything else by your standerds and be exepted
This isn't that it's an adaptation, this is blatantly disregarding existing information. Saying they're 'adaptable' doesn't mean shit and it
certainly doesn't mean we should remove any limitations as to what they can do, which is
exactly what people - And the Bros - are doing.
QuoteSil, think of the situation of a young Queen, running around, with no Alien warriors around to help, what is she supposed to do, until a hive can be made and she is able to produce via egg sac?
Well logically she'd actually go about setting up a hive so she's ready to start laying eggs. ie. Fulfill her primary function as soon as possible.
QuoteSM, I didn't mean you were a "general audience" person, by the statement.
I'm just telling why I can't appreciate this 'film' like the average punter might.
This is not destroying what's in place...its not removing limitations bealive or not this is limited..
only Predalien is doing it...not every alien
We know that a full grown Queen lays egges we've never seen a young Queen free. so we don't know what happens then, they are feeling in the blansks with somethign that fits with aliens, granted not the best or most close to canon. but its still on open ground.
If you don't like the molting then that's no adaptiblity and leaves the Aliens to basically just sit and wait for a slow death when the Queen is killed. There should be limits but this is not that insane...it doing something that the thing it creates does..
Well, maybe she is creating a hive, but at the same time, she is also trying to make quick drones. I thought the drones are supposed to help construct a hive for the Queen? Are we basing the info on ants/bees? Maybe the Aliens follow a different route. Who knows...
As for the comment of breaking existing information, again, this stage of the Queen, in this sitatuion, is something we have not seen before and thus, what we do know/have seen is not all hurt by this new method. It's just a stage/method in a Queen's life that has not been thought of before. So, yes, its directors introducing more ideas to the Alien moviegoers/fans, but at the same time is NOT breaking anything.
What we know of the Queen is what has been established, when she is able to born from a chestburster and is able to produce an egg sac. Is that all a Queen Alien (not Queen Bee or Queen Ant) should do? Remember, we are talking about an Alien species...one that still has alot of be explored and expanded upon.
I welcome new ideas that don't kill the ones we have known of for years. The Queen will still act the same way, when she's in the stages of her cycle we have seen in Aliens, Alien Resurrection (first cycle of course) and AVP. This is just a piece of the Queen cycle we have never seen on film. The Queen in Alien Resurrection does destroy this new idea, because:
1. The Queen was contained, until after she produced eggs (which we never got to see her actually produce the eggs on screen)
2. The Queen was not in a situation where she was free and able to use this method. Besides, we barely got to see the Queen, during the time she was producing eggs. Who the hell knows how they had her contained (we only got to see her head, behind the glass)
It's surprising that a regurgitation method, such as this, has been thought up for the Queen cycle, but it only works, because of the situation AVP-R is presenting...a free, young Queen that is in the middle of chestbursting/producing eggs via egg sac (I'm tired of repeating this).
And again, I understand why some people would be against this, because it's something unexpected, especially from the Queen, but we have to remember that we don't know ALL of the Alien's cycle. We only know from what we have seen on screen (and read in novels, etc).
It's also difficult to embrace it, because we have not seen AVP-R. So, all we have is expectations of it looking bad and the reason it doesn't work is because we have not seen it before and therefore, it should never be included.
If it makes sense to have it included, then there really shouldn't be a big problem. As long as it works and makes sense for the Queen's survival, during those stages of her development...I say go for it.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 30, 2007, 02:32:12 AM
This is not destroying what's in place...
If you don't like the molting then that's no adaptiblity
Alien 3 already established that Queens are born as Queens.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 30, 2007, 02:34:22 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 30, 2007, 02:32:12 AM
This is not destroying what's in place...
If you don't like the molting then that's no adaptiblity
Alien 3 already established that Queens are born as Queens.
which doesn't mean that's the only way, read the rest not just the first and last sentances you'll get the point i made
It doesn't make them anymore adaptable, and the SOLE reason it exists seems to be because the Strause brothers believe somehow this some kind of 4chanesque retarded homage to the original movie. It isn't. And as to the above. I do believe that Cameron did exactly that, turned the Alien from an ALIEN to giant disposable space ant.
*Insert bong noises here*
"You know Ripley is like this super empowered figure of emerging feminiity, you know like totally girl power and stuff"
SSSSSSSF
"yeah, okay and?"
SSSSSSF
"Well, you know since I'm writing ALIEN II, we should like adress that, and stuff"
SSSSSSSF
"Like how, man?"
SSSSSSSF
"Well ummm like there should be like, a counterpart dude, you know like antitheseusueses.. antithethcheese..."
"antithesis?"
"YA MAN THAT THING Like totally antiRipley man, like a ... female ALIEN, that is like just as fierce and all bitchy and stuff. ya know like godzilla versus king kong."
SSSSSSSF
"So get this see, It'll be like a Queen ALIEN that rules all the other aliens and then Ripley'll be like NO WAY and then ummm... they fight and stuff."
SSSSSSSF
"James, you're a f**king genius"
"I know man, I know HEY QUIT BOGARTING THE BONG MAN"
That's pretty much what Aliens was. You can take any other creature and stick it the place of the Aliens and guess what, it works. The aliens have nothing to do with the movie. The movie is about motherhood and Viet Nam in space, and how much of Robert Heinlein can I plagiarize and not get caught.
And that's pretty much what we see here.
Every indication is that the Brothers simply threw in gratuitous refernces to earlier movies when they should have been working their asses off to come up an original scenario with original characters, that kept the defining basics intact instead of putting a penis on ripley and saying it's a totally new character with none of the hallmarks that made Ripley endearing in the first place and saying it's new and uncharted path for the story when every damn line of dialogue references a line of dialogue from the previous movies.
I'm sure just as Aliens did all the fanboys will eat it up, and I'm sure just as with Aliens the fans with loudest yells and biggest e-opinions will be those who yell about the cool guns and explosions and Hudson's awesome lines; the same fans who quite simply missed the point that the military (USA! USA! USA!) got its ass kicked.
It's hilarious to see all this talk of "expanding" the franchise and seeing all these awesome new things, while being completely oblivious to the fact that is THESE things which are killing the franchise and making it more and more stupid.
All you have to do is look around at other franchises and see the what happens when you lose sight of what made it awesome in the first place.
Star Trek, Star Wars, Marvel characters. It's righ in front of you.
You know why Marvel movies make so much at at a time when the comic character titles themelves are losing sales year after year?
Because they go back to the beginning. They keep to the bare essentials because they have to tell what could be ten years of story in 2 hours. and suprise, suprise they make craploads of money. and as we can clearly see from Spider-Man and X-Men III, when you start to f**k with makes the characters accessible in the first place with gimmicks and flash.... people lose interest. and you lose money.
I haven't heard a SINGLE plot element or line of dialogue that means ANYTHING in the greater scheme of either of these creatures. It's all flash and what looks cool. Dark Horse did that for years and have no where near the numbers they started out with to show for it.
Take the hint.
I Think someone lost his gf to Cameron.... ::) or the Bros
Best not to anger ZOD, I mean Xhan.
You will look silly.
:D Amen.
QuoteIf you don't like the molting then that's no adaptiblity and leaves the Aliens to basically just sit and wait for a slow death when the Queen is killed.
So what? The eggs will endure and that's all that matters.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 30, 2007, 02:38:06 AM
Best not to anger ZOD, I mean Xhan.
You will look silly.
not angering just making the point i could tell it was biased from the second i looked at it, he'd disagree with anything they handed him
Quote from: SM on Oct 30, 2007, 02:40:21 AM
:D Amen.
QuoteIf you don't like the molting then that's no adaptiblity and leaves the Aliens to basically just sit and wait for a slow death when the Queen is killed.
So what? The eggs will endure and that's all that matters.
if something was able to destroy the eggs then i think they'd finish off the eggs too or all the facehuggers already have host...and doesn't that downgrade the alien?
"We got an alien hive kill the Queen go home and party..."
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 30, 2007, 02:35:21 AM
which doesn't mean that's the only way, read the rest not just the first and last sentances you'll get the point i made
I did read it all. Something else you said doesn't work either...
QuoteWe know that a full grown Queen lays egges we've never seen a young Queen free
So your stance would be that the young Queen on Acheron probably 'puked and molted'?
But:
Quoteonly Predalien is doing it...not every alien
If only a PredAlien can do it, it seems pretty restrictive and not particularly adaptive.
Quote...and doesn't that downgrade the alien?
Why? They were all ready to take off and nuke the colony in Alens - didn't work out that way. Adaptable doesn't have to mean - "Hmm, in a bit of a pickle here. Let's completely changed our physiology so we can be all bad ass". It can simply mean, they adapt their behaviour to any given situation. (ie. "Trying to run these guns out of ammo isn't working like it did downstairs - let's try something else").
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 30, 2007, 02:43:46 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 30, 2007, 02:35:21 AM
which doesn't mean that's the only way, read the rest not just the first and last sentances you'll get the point i made
I did read it all. Something else you said doesn't work either...
QuoteWe know that a full grown Queen lays egges we've never seen a young Queen free
So your stance would be that the young Queen on Acheron probably 'puked and molted'?
But:
Quoteonly Predalien is doing it...not every alien
If only a PredAlien can do it, it seems pretty restrictive and not particularly adaptive.
Predalien Queen is what i said later, adaptiblity on the Queen's part..and if i didn't that's what i meant and you know as i do Colin said the its a molting to a Queen, what i said it could be impled that only an alien molting into a Queen can do this.
Now the Acheron didn't molt...but we didn't get a chance to see it molt...i also said
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 30, 2007, 02:48:18 AM
and you know as i do Colin said the its a molting to a Queen, what i said it could be impled that only an alien molting into a Queen can do this.
Which, as stated, they don't do. They're born as Queens.
Quote from: SM on Oct 30, 2007, 02:47:46 AM
Quote...and doesn't that downgrade the alien?
Why? They were all ready to take off and nuke the colony in Alens - didn't work out that way. Adaptable doesn't have to mean - "Hmm, in a bit of a pickle here. Let's completely changed our physiology so we can be all bad ass". It can simply mean, they adapt their behaviour to any given situation. (ie. "Trying to run these guns out of ammo isn't working like it did downstairs - let's try something else").
so having the abilty to phiscally shed its layers "making it one tough son of a bitch" doesn't abliy here? it changed something like that through years of evolotion i bet it had devolped the ability overtime and now can use it when needed
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 30, 2007, 02:49:30 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 30, 2007, 02:48:18 AM
and you know as i do Colin said the its a molting to a Queen, what i said it could be impled that only an alien molting into a Queen can do this.
Which, as stated, they don't do. They're born as Queens.
acording to one soruce, which didn't say,
"Because there born Queens means they can't become them any other way."
Quoteso having the abilty to phiscally shed its layers "making it one tough son of a bitch" doesn't abliy here?
And human bodies adapt to their environment over time too.
But if I barfed down the First Lady's throat, we'd be going to casualty at the hospital rather than the maternity ward.
I have no reason to disagree, if it works. If it makes the characters and setting better than it was before. Have you seen anything like that? I haven't.
How do me make the Predator umm like you know totally more bad ass.
DUDE. WE'll give him TWO PLASMACASTERS. You know like double the kickass.
SWEET. What else.... ummm uhh a whip. Like a Kohe Wand that'll chop through like.. everything. Even schools.
Okay what about the Aliens?
Umm uh... They breathe Fire?
No dude.
uhh Ice?
That's Mortal Kombat dude.
*Brothers watch the first movie*
DUDE. FACERAPE. DUDE
Oh hell yes. that rocks.
When I hear about something that hasn't been crafted by a 12 year old kid who just hit puberty and has come to the earth shattering realization that pro-wrestling might not be real all the time, I'll be first in line to sing its praises.
Hey what's that you're saying about pro wrestling ???
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 30, 2007, 02:51:02 AM
acording to one soruce, which didn't say,
"Because there born Queens means they can't become them any other way."
So you're saying that any other time there was an Alien and no Queen, the Alien just forgot it could become a Queen at will?
i think what the BROS. are trying to show, is that ONLY queens can "vomit"
so she can protect herself
and that drones CAN't do that
End of thread.
Yeah nice try... ::)
Quote from: SM on Oct 30, 2007, 02:54:42 AM
Quoteso having the abilty to phiscally shed its layers "making it one tough son of a bitch" doesn't abliy here?
And human bodies adapt to their environment over time too.
But if I barfed down the First Lady's throat, we'd be going to casualty at the hospital rather than the maternity ward.
Hate to be the one to tell you this....you aren't an alien....
They have been arounbd a real long time...over this time its obvoius they devolped alot of ways to be "Tough little sons of Bitches" we've seen them way to little to say this is their limit...they have to many abilites as is to say this is all they can do, if you don't like it? whine about it all day long see who cares
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 30, 2007, 02:58:33 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 30, 2007, 02:51:02 AM
acording to one soruce, which didn't say,
"Because there born Queens means they can't become them any other way."
So you're saying that any other time there was an Alien and no Queen, the Alien just forgot it could become a Queen at will?
No...every other time being once, i'd say it happened to fast for the molt..acording to Ripley it killed them all less than 24 hours. second, who says it didn't start it at the end of Alien it had tounge extended for no reason at Ripley...who knows what it was doing?
I gotta go...enjoy the war leave some for me
Quote from: predatorlover on Oct 30, 2007, 02:59:10 AM
End of thread.
Oh no!
Quotei think what the BROS. are trying to show, is that ONLY queens can "vomit" so she can protect herself and that drones CAN't do that
We really are going in circles, aren't we?
The fact of the matter is, they've managed to come up with something that cannot fit properly into the Aliens' established pattern of behaviour. No matter how you come at it, it conflicts with something we've already had established.
QuoteHate to be the one to tell you this....you aren't an alien....
Looks like my point went straight through to the keeper yet again.
Oh well.
QuoteThey have been arounbd a real long time...over this time its obvoius they devolped alot of ways to be "Tough little sons of Bitches" we've seen them way to little to say this is their limit...they have to many abilites as is to say this is all they can do, if you don't like it? whine about it all day long see who cares
LOl, yet here you are in same kind.
AHH THE IRONY IT BURNS US MASTER.
I wasn't aware toyota made Aliens.
Yes, Queens are born through chestbursters, but if there is no Queen or eggs around, what are the drones supposed to do to continue the reproduction?
1. As ALIEN DC suggested, egg-morphing can occur. This would make sense for a survival tactic of the Alien warrior, but the idea of a Queen being the only provider of eggs/facehuggers makes much more sense.
2. The Alien warrior somehow impregnates hosts with Alien semen (through it's tail?)
3. Alien warriors can rapidly change their sex/genetics and molt into Queens as a last resort
Again, I would support the egg-morphing method much more, if the idea of a Queen was never brought into the cycle. Sure, it's possible the Aliens could go this route, when there is no Queen around, but for the host to grow into an egg, thus growing a facehugger...uncharacterstic of the Alien, IMO.
However, the egg-morphing has been established on film, so it would be kind of neat to have future films explore this more, but the inclusion of the Queen is holding this back. If the Queen was not introduced in Aliens and ALIEN DC was released back then, I bet the egg-morphing would still be used now, unless some one (other than Cameron) thought up the Queen or another explaination for the eggs.
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Oct 30, 2007, 03:13:30 AM
but the idea of a Queen being the only provider of eggs/facehuggers makes much more sense.
Hardly.
Quote2. The Alien warrior somehow impregnates hosts with Alien semen (through it's tail?)
Yeah, that totally ... no. Just no.
Quote3. Alien warriors can rapidly change their sex/genetics and molt into Queens as a last resort
Which goes against A, established in 1979, and the latter two Alien movies.
QuoteYes, Queens are born through chestbursters, but if there is no Queen or eggs around, what are the drones supposed to do to continue the reproduction?
Egg morphing. It's a concept that's been around for nearly 30 years, and is perfectly adaptable to the Queen concept. Host morphed into egg (via vomiting if they must), second host huggered, Queen emerges, lays lots of eggs. The host that bore the Queen could even be morphed if need.
Ok, if Alien DC was released originally, do you think Cameron would've still thought of the Queen concept, and thus made the Aliens more like bees/ants?
As someone mentioned earlier, Cameron turned the Aliens into more of a colony species and that was based on seeing the eggs in ALIEN, but not seeing the ALIEN DC and the egg-morphing scene.
If Ridley/Fox included that egg-morphing scene in the TR, things would be different now, IMO.
In a way, you could say Cameron broke the cycle, if we were to assume the Alien could only produce the eggs, by means of egg-morphing, without the need for a Queen.
Yes Cameron did break the cycle, but his excuse for doing so was acceptable. Only a very small portion of punters knew about the egg morphing thing which didn't make it into the final film. He ditched it for something else. If he'd done that while the coccoon scene was still in Alien and didn't adaquately work the change into the story to explain it - I think people would've cried foul then as they are now.
Either way, egg morphing CAN work with the Queen. Sadly it seems not in this film though.
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Oct 30, 2007, 03:28:54 AM
In a way, you could say Cameron broke the cycle, if we were to assume the Alien could only produce the eggs, by means of egg-morphing, without the need for a Queen.
Cameron took the cycle and gave it more believability than immaculate jesus aliens. Its very frustrating how so much fans dont see this simple fact.
Cameron was here to help us, not harm :P
It's very frustrating how so many fans don't see how much a hindrance the Queen was in the portrayal of the Alien as an alien organism, and as something of the antithesis of humanity.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 30, 2007, 03:52:25 AM
It's very frustrating how so many fans don't see how much a hindrance the Queen was in the portrayal of the Alien as an alien organism, and as something of the antithesis of humanity.
lol you cant just go fly away with concepts. A grounding was made, a grounding that makes sure this isnt dismissed as easily as this impossible antithesis of humanity. You break the rubber band, you break the movie.
The concept being defended here incredibly: a regular alien being able to make eggs with slime and goo from its body apparently. Then voila. An egg.
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 30, 2007, 03:59:13 AM
A grounding was made, a grounding that makes sure this isnt dismissed as easily as this impossible antithesis of humanity.
Given Cameron's flair for the theatrical, well beyond anything
Alien ever showed, that's a load of horseshit and you know it. He wanted a boss fight; end of. The original reproductive method was alien; the original Alien creature was alien. Cameron made them an insect.
And yet people applaud him, because apparently giant insects are unique and scary.
Like all the ones from those 50s movies. Ooooh, giant ants! Oh no!
Puh-
leez, bitch.
Quote from: Docta Jekyll on Oct 30, 2007, 01:25:29 AM
Why do you have to be that way xeno, his post was actually intelligent, it doesn't belong in this unhelpful, and sometimes violently off topic thread, it deserves to be on its own.
So do many of the others in this one. I might disagree with it, but would agree it was thoughtful. Nevertheless, that doesn't change the fact that it'll just go onto blossom another thread which is
precisely the same as this one.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 30, 2007, 04:04:20 AM
Given Cameron's flair for the theatrical, well beyond anything Alien ever showed, that's a load of horseshit and you know it. He wanted a boss fight; end of. The original reproductive method was alien; the original Alien creature was alien. Cameron made them an insect.
And yet people applaud him, because apparently giant insects are unique and scary.
Like all the ones from those 50s movies. Ooooh, giant ants! Oh no!
Puh-leez, bitch.
Well if you want to believe that, then be my guest. Im not going to begin to think immaculate jesus aliens arent laughable.
And given Cameron's superb instinct in his other films i love, I cannot be told how he does things, sorry.
Poof.. thanks david copperfield. ::)
Dude, the f**k do you think the Queen is?
She's the freaking Virgin Mother of Aliens. There's no sexual reproduction in any form of egg creation, so any immaculate Jesus birth you can label at morphing can be labelled even more solidly to the Queen. Hell, the Queen's a much better analogy anyway!
Egg morphing at least requires a host. Queen just shits 'em out when she's old enough.
Whee, your analogy sucks!
I proudly present...
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/xenomorphine/AVPCanonGame.jpg
Quote from: SiL on Oct 30, 2007, 04:08:22 AM
Dude, the f**k do you think the Queen is?
She's the freaking Virgin Mother of Aliens. No sex.
And yet thats far more compartmentalized than any old joe alien doing it sorry. She has a sack...she is a SHE, its also a dynamic thing... once again movies like these dont always work on facts, but also probability of it clicking with an audience more.
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 30, 2007, 04:09:59 AM
once again movies like these dont always work on facts,
I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning. It smells like defeat.
Quotebut also probability of it clicking with an audience more.
David Cronenberg's career not only
laughs at you, but takes a wizz as well.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 30, 2007, 04:09:11 AM
I proudly present...
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/xenomorphine/AVPCanonGame.jpg
That is awesome :D
Quote from: predatorlover on Oct 30, 2007, 02:59:10 AM
i think what the BROS. are trying to show, is that ONLY queens can "vomit"
so she can protect herself
and that drones CAN't do that
End of thread.
no aliens vomit. period. Egg morphing when it was the only known way of alien reproduction before Aliens came out, never included any vomiting to start the process. Maybe it did use its tail to inject dna or it used it inner jaw to bite and spread a sort of bacteria that started the process but clearly no one arguing for anything slightly reasonable is going to argue aliens can vomit in people.
Not even in the comics have anything like that, and they have some weird shit, just nothing that f**ks with the lifecycle as much as this shit.
yes greg and colin the royal jelly is less ridiculous than your precious vomit retardation. I'd go for the Alien King idea before this shit, at least that's not impossible, at least provided no one argues one naturally exists in the alien's hierarchy. It was merely a genetically altered queen, with male hormones.
So we have the largely regarded non-canon comics, being less retarded than some of the ideas in avp-r, even Paul Anderson is probably laughing at this idea. lol.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 30, 2007, 04:11:19 AM
I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning. It smells like defeat.
I cant believe youre arguing this concept....
man.. maybe vomit IS the next step ::)
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 30, 2007, 04:12:42 AM
I cant believe youre arguing this concept....
man.. maybe vomit IS the next step ::)
"It's more plausible!"
"Well, it doesn't have to follow facts."
"LULZ I CANT BELIEV UR ARGOOING THIS LULZ NUB!"
Quote from: SiL on Oct 30, 2007, 04:15:17 AM
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 30, 2007, 04:12:42 AM
I cant believe youre arguing this concept....
man.. maybe vomit IS the next step ::)
"It's more plausible!"
"Well, it doesn't have to follow facts."
Figure it out. ::)
U want cold hard facts go to college. U want instinct , talk about films.
Stupidest shit ever.
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 30, 2007, 04:12:15 AM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 30, 2007, 04:09:11 AM
I proudly present...
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/xenomorphine/AVPCanonGame.jpg
That is awesome :D
indeed it is.
And i wonder how much shit the directors will get after people have seen the movie. im sure there are people out there who know hardly anything about avp-r but will casually see it and then just wonder what the f**k the predalien is doing to people. lol.
QuoteEgg morphing when it was the only known way of alien reproduction before Aliens came out, never included any vomiting to start the process.
Not entirely true. We don't know what started the egg morph process.
I'd hope it didn't though...
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Oct 30, 2007, 04:12:15 AM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 30, 2007, 04:09:11 AM
I proudly present...
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/xenomorphine/AVPCanonGame.jpg
That is awesome :D
Now you, too, can experience the awesomeness of being Colin! ;D
Personally I could never think of any other way for it to get the process started, but that was part of what was great about it; you just didn't know.
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 30, 2007, 04:16:22 AM
Quote from: SiL on Oct 30, 2007, 04:15:17 AM
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 30, 2007, 04:12:42 AM
I cant believe youre arguing this concept....
man.. maybe vomit IS the next step ::)
"It's more plausible!"
"Well, it doesn't have to follow facts."
Figure it out. ::)
U want cold hard facts go to college. U want instinct , talk about films.
Stupidest shit ever.
C'mon man. There has to be SOME effort to keep shit organized. If you want stuff all over the place, you end up with the kenner comics. It just gets so out there it becomes that all powerful monster that nobody cares about.
Part of what made the original movie so scary is because you DIDN'T know what the Alien was capable of.
Now everybody finds the need to explain everything up down and sideways and the need to add new abilities just because they can.
As I've said earlier, there was nothing to evidence this stuff happening in film.
Gin Rummy's, "the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence," type logic need not apply here.
Tarantino does a better job keeping continuity between films and his shit is all over the place.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 30, 2007, 04:19:39 AM
Personally I could never think of any other way for it to get the process started, but that was part of what was great about it; you just didn't know.
I vote tail stinger. I know they don't have a stinger, but hey, the hands injecting shit doesn't seem likely, and the mouth is to much like the barf idea.
I think I made my opinion on it at least known. I wont press further.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 30, 2007, 04:21:16 AM
Gin Rummy's, "the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence," type logic need not apply here.
That's funny, I have the Boondocks on right now, and it is the episode where Sam Jackson says that exact same thing in a parody of Pulp Fiction.
Gin Rummy and Ed Wuncler III are the second best set of characters on the show next to Huey and Riley.
I love the episode where they hold up the store.
Rumsfield and the Prez at their finest.
I present to you a sneak peak of the new alien reproduction cycle:
http://www.whorehole.org/posts/dogbarf/barf_flash.html (http://www.whorehole.org/posts/dogbarf/barf_flash.html)
I ought to woop you boy.
"There are known knowns and there are known unknowns, but there are also unknown unknowns!" ;D
"What the f**k ya'll lookin at?"
Charlie Murphy and Sam Jackson are hilarious. Them playing white people makes it even funnier.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 30, 2007, 04:19:39 AM
Personally I could never think of any other way for it to get the process started, but that was part of what was great about it; you just didn't know.
Im sure though that ridley scott never intended vomit or any kind of goo going down the throat. i wonder what he thinks of this idea by the way. Or james cameron for that matter.
QuoteI vote tail stinger.
If we did need to find out, I'd prefer that too.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 30, 2007, 04:09:11 AM
I proudly present...
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/xenomorphine/AVPCanonGame.jpg
Pretty true. Theres too many povs.
First of all, If a director needs to go online for opinions hes already in trouble imo. Its up to the crew to know themselves.
Quote from: badass_badger on Oct 30, 2007, 04:28:09 AM
I present to you a sneak peak of the new alien reproduction cycle:
http://www.whorehole.org/posts/dogbarf/barf_flash.html (http://www.whorehole.org/posts/dogbarf/barf_flash.html)
sums up this forum pretty good
Ridley Scott intentionally made his alien surreal and ambiguous. We don't know what it did when we weren't looking at it, and neither does Scott for that matter. Those of you who see Lambert's foot without a shoe and think bare skin must mean that she was LITERALLY raped don't have very good imaginations. What the hell happened? We'll never know. She was swinging off the ground and obviously died some savage death that we never see or really understand. That's what makes it SCARY.
Not until Aliens was any kind of real logic applied to the creature. Until then it was Scott's vision on the screen. Moisture on the eggs drips upward instead of down. You can explain that however you want with the fan fiction that is the Anchorpoint Essays (and don't tell me it's anything but fan fiction created in order to fill in the huge gaps and breaks in the films that the film makers themselves left) to but the fact of the matter is that IT SIMPLY LOOKED GREAT! Scott didn't sit down and invent some kind of device in the derelict that justified the upward-dripping liquid, he simply provided a wonderfully surreal, ALIEN looking image. In my opinion, his alien is the most ALIEN of any of the others in the sequels because he provides us with so much mystery.
I can't think of one Alien sequel that didn't break the ideas put on screen in the film before it.
However, I can't stress enough that I hate the new idea. Seeing movie monsters go through all kinds of dumb and extremely fast adaptation and evolution is the oldest, cheapest trick in the creature movie book and the fact that the majority of the people here are all about this new idea really makes me feel as though there is truly NO HOPE for the series to get back on track. The fan base ITSELF would rather ooh and ahh at whatever new alien incarnation we can throw on the screen than allow what was already established in the series take place with new interesting characters and a unique plot. Alien is becoming the same camp that most great horror franchises turn out to be. I wish that Alien wasn't turning into direct-to-Sci-Fi-Channel movies transformed into big screen films, but I guess that's how it has to be. It's just sad that the fans themselves are so eager to see it happen.
The fact that every intelligent post I have read here is surrounded by half a dozen posts repeating the same ideas and defenses that were revealed to not be feasible says a lot. I feel like we need a FAQ for this so people can read it and not feel compelled to post "But we have never seen a young queen before!" or "but we've never seen a predalien before!" on literally every page in this thread.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 30, 2007, 04:19:04 AM
I proudly present...
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/xenomorphine/AVPCanonGame.jpg
I know who lost this game.
hi to veryone there who bitching about this new RC.... i dun c theres a problem with it. Stop telling it doesn't make sense.. cuz from the begining of the alien... it's already doesn't making any senses if you really 1 2 talk about making senses. The life cycle is a juz a fiction make-up... And u said the previous RC is the ultimate fixed final true method??!! where is the fact then? its juz becuz the precious film din show it doesn't mean it is not... does something hatch from egg and then f**k people's mouth another time then burst out from the host make senses 2 you?! Why dun it juz hatch from the eggs and and grown by itself? have you seen a chick hatch from egg, then go f**k people's mouth, burst out then only become a chicken?!!!
comeon guys... stop splitting in people's idea.... its a movie ok....!! if you 1 2 talk about senses... the hold alien thing is without sense.... juz enjoy the movie.. and appreciate people idea... if you dun like it so much... dun watch it... that the simplest way.. u think fox mind ur 30 bucks ticket money... and summore.... if you r so brilliant... why dun you go and direct the movie... dun juz shit at your and bombard people's idea on your desk.... or why dun you make a home made AVP for urself?
...The hell did you just say?
I think I made my opinion on it at least known. I wont press further.
Lol, All you have to do is THINK.
How do you know the jockeys didn't create QUEENS themselves after they were unsatisfied wth Alien reproduction rate?
How do you know the Queen isn't an adult Jockey Alien?
Ah, yes... you don't.
For all we know the facehugger is "programmed" to produce a specific form by the prey species it interacts with.
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Oct 30, 2007, 05:06:53 AM
Ridley Scott intentionally made his alien surreal and ambiguous. We don't know what it did when we weren't looking at it, and neither does Scott for that matter. Those of you who see Lambert's foot without a shoe and think bare skin must mean that she was LITERALLY raped don't have very good imaginations. What the hell happened? We'll never know. She was swinging off the ground and obviously died some savage death that we never see or really understand. That's what makes it SCARY.
Not until Aliens was any kind of real logic applied to the creature. Until then it was Scott's vision on the screen. Moisture on the eggs drips upward instead of down. You can explain that however you want with the fan fiction that is the Anchorpoint Essays (and don't tell me it's anything but fan fiction created in order to fill in the huge gaps and breaks in the films that the film makers themselves left) to but the fact of the matter is that IT SIMPLY LOOKED GREAT! Scott didn't sit down and invent some kind of device in the derelict that justified the upward-dripping liquid, he simply provided a wonderfully surreal, ALIEN looking image. In my opinion, his alien is the most ALIEN of any of the others in the sequels because he provides us with so much mystery.
I can't think of one Alien sequel that didn't break the ideas put on screen in the film before it.
However, I can't stress enough that I hate the new idea. Seeing movie monsters go through all kinds of dumb and extremely fast adaptation and evolution is the oldest, cheapest trick in the creature movie book and the fact that the majority of the people here are all about this new idea really makes me feel as though there is truly NO HOPE for the series to get back on track. The fan base ITSELF would rather ooh and ahh at whatever new alien incarnation we can throw on the screen than allow what was already established in the series take place with new interesting characters and a unique plot. Alien is becoming the same camp that most great horror franchises turn out to be. I wish that Alien wasn't turning into direct-to-Sci-Fi-Channel movies transformed into big screen films, but I guess that's how it has to be. It's just sad that the fans themselves are so eager to see it happen.
The fact that every intelligent post I have read here is surrounded by half a dozen posts repeating the same ideas and defenses that were revealed to not be feasible says a lot. I feel like we need a FAQ for this so people can read it and not feel compelled to post "But we have never seen a young queen before!" or "but we've never seen a predalien before!" on literally every page in this thread.
Unfourtunately movie makers these days are under the impression audiences would rather see some new, bigger, badder monster instead of the original ones they are paying the money to see in the first place.
Your absolutely right, it seems that were doomed to see some new monsters with each new movie released in place of a well thought story.
New monsters, RC, weapons, armors etc etc does not take the place of a well thought, in debt story supported by strong acting. Its like a trend now that when the thought well has run dry, we will invent something new and just throw it out there and thats rather sad, because saying that, i didnt envision the Predalien as a creature that was basically going to be raped in this manner, and if done correctly, could be a intresting and horrific beast. I know we've yet to see exactly what this creature is 100% about, but this is the feeling alot people are getting on this subject.
I really hope when i throw down my cash for that ticket on the 25th or 26th im suprised to see that alot of thought and care was taken with the creature so it may see a return in future movies, because the concept of this animal is very intresting to say the least.
We are not all going to agree on our definition of good looking, or if it should have mandibles or dreads etc etc.. but i think we can all agree this animal has the potential to be truely fantastic if handled with care.
Quote from: hisateru on Oct 30, 2007, 05:50:14 AM
hi to veryone there who bitching about this new RC.... i dun c theres a problem with it. Stop telling it doesn't make sense.. cuz from the begining of the alien... it's already doesn't making any senses if you really 1 2 talk about making senses. The life cycle is a juz a fiction make-up... And u said the previous RC is the ultimate fixed final true method??!! where is the fact then? its juz becuz the precious film din show it doesn't mean it is not... does something hatch from egg and then f**k people's mouth another time then burst out from the host make senses 2 you?! Why dun it juz hatch from the eggs and and grown by itself? have you seen a chick hatch from egg, then go f**k people's mouth, burst out then only become a chicken?!!!
comeon guys... stop splitting in people's idea.... its a movie ok....!! if you 1 2 talk about senses... the hold alien thing is without sense.... juz enjoy the movie.. and appreciate people idea... if you dun like it so much... dun watch it... that the simplest way.. u think fox mind ur 30 bucks ticket money... and summore.... if you r so brilliant... why dun you go and direct the movie... dun juz shit at your and bombard people's idea on your desk.... or why dun you make a home made AVP for urself?
NO U
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 30, 2007, 04:19:04 AM
I proudly present...
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/xenomorphine/AVPCanonGame.jpg
Fu<king priceless... :D
Quote from: badass_badger on Oct 30, 2007, 04:28:09 AM
I present to you a sneak peak of the new alien reproduction cycle:
http://www.whorehole.org/posts/dogbarf/barf_flash.html (http://www.whorehole.org/posts/dogbarf/barf_flash.html)
I haven't laughed that hard in days... :D
People still think this vomit sh!t doesn't break canon!? How pathetically sad...
Quote from: hisateru on Oct 30, 2007, 05:50:14 AM
hi to veryone there who bitching about this new RC.... i dun c theres a problem with it. Stop telling it doesn't make sense..
Come on down and play the game, my friend!
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/xenomorphine/AVPCanonGame.jpg
You could win a prize!
Hentai artists will be making Predalien manga for YEARS. Moot will have to make a /Strause/.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 30, 2007, 06:57:03 AMCome on down and play the game, my friend!
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/xenomorphine/AVPCanonGame.jpg
You could win a prize!
That was epic. I don't see how even the positive people could avoid laughing.
Damn, why does this thead still exist?
Its getting painful to read. Diehard Alien fans cant believe the Bro's actually had the balls to put in yet another reproduction cycle. And, if you think about it ... there have been plenty.
Alien. The discovery of the eggs, no Queen was introduced. These were, supposedly, "engineered". Facehuggers impregnated a Human host resulting in an Alien.
Aliens. Discovery of a nest. Introduction of the Queen and a ( so called ) hive-mind. Queen was said to be the "main-cause" of everything. No longer were they enginereed, they were bred.
Alien³. A Queen Facehugger is introduced. No longer are they "natural" born Queens. They simply burst out of a human thanks to impregnation of this special Facehugger. Also, a facehugger hugs a dog/ox creating another Xenomorph Hybrid. The creature kept its Alien appearance yet walked on 4 legs and was extremely agile.
Alien:R. Cloning. Using DNA from the deceased Ripley they succesfully created a Hybrid Queen, one capable of giving birth to a completed Hybrid. It's also told that Xenomorphs will kill there own species in order to escape, survive or, in case of the Newborn, gain supremacy.
Now, these movie HAVE shown different reproduction/impregnation/bursting methods. All from different species. Is it SO hard to understand that AVP:R is introducing its OWN regurgitating method? Is that SO hard to accept? For some, yeah.. for others its something new and fresh. Its a bold move by the directors and I sure hope it turns out well.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 30, 2007, 02:26:14 AM
This isn't that it's an adaptation, this is blatantly disregarding existing information. Saying they're 'adaptable' doesn't mean shit and it certainly doesn't mean we should remove any limitations as to what they can do, which is exactly what people - And the Bros - are doing.
Adaptable does mean something SiL. In Aliens it adapted itself. In Alien 3 it adapted itself to a freaking dog/ox! In A:R the Queen even adapted itself to it could give BIRTH to a NEW species. That somehow worked fine for you but now the Predalien looks like shit because it looks like a Predator? Gimme a break. But no, muppet SiL still believes Aliens dont adapt. Disregarding existing information? Dude, where the f**k have you been huh? Cameron ( from a certain point of view ) f**ked up what Scott tried to tell us in HIS version of Alien. Suddenly these Xenomorphs werent enginereed, they were bred. The only thing Cameron did with consistency was showing that a Human host WAS indeed needed. The more Alien movies arrived the more they f**ked up whatever Scott did :( No hard feelings SiL but this bitching about such things is getting out of hand.
Certain changes are required especially in certain situations. The Predalien doesnt have an egg-sack so an alternative way of breading HAS to be found. Hence the vomitting. I'm pretty much OKAY with the idea, it COULD have been better though but im also
GLAD they didnt bring back the Queen yet again to show her JUST shittting out eggs. I'm glad they didnt went with the Predalien hugging humans. Imagine that huge moffo sitting on someones face.
I'm doing just fine imagining it bust a load down someone's throat.
this thread exists because people are ASTOUNDED at the level of ignorance and stupidity yarfed forth thus far, so much so that they need to comment on the blatant disregard for continuity and world destroying crappyness of ADI's design; that they need to do so over and over, despreately hoping and praying that it''s been a horrible dream except it isn't; Mommy was wrong there ARE real monsters and their names are Strause and Salerno, and they get PAID to rape your cherished fanboy hopes and dreams for the lowest common denominator and profit.
and to whit: If Preds breed through their mouths, why the hell do they need to wear metal underwear...
Damn, why do people still not understand what's being disliked 143 pages in?
QuoteAdaptable does mean something SiL.
Why yes, yes it does.
QuoteIn Aliens it adapted itself
How?
QuoteIn Alien 3 it adapted itself to a freaking dog/ox!
Host traits were established in 1979. It wasn't a new addition.
QuoteIn A:R the Queen even adapted itself to it could give BIRTH to a NEW species.
The
Queen didn't adapt anything. The
scientists mutated it
forced it to undergo the new reproductive cycle.
QuoteThat somehow worked fine for you
How are the two analogous at all? The newborn was a result of genetic tampering, it wasn't a naturally occurring thing like the PredAlien. If the Queen had up and pooped out the Newborn of its own accord, of course I'd have
more of a problem with it than I already do.
QuoteBut no, muppet SiL still believes Aliens dont adapt.
Did reading comprehension capabilities drop sharply while I was away?
QuoteCameron ( from a certain point of view ) f**ked up what Scott tried to tell us in HIS version of Alien
What Scott, and O'Bannon and Shussette and everyone else, wanted to show re the reproductive cycle never made it to screen before Cameron got his mits on the franchise, not to mention what he did still gels with the original cycle.
QuoteSuddenly these Xenomorphs werent enginereed, they were bred.
The xenmorphs were never engineered. Scott
would like to think they were, his words; O'Bannon
knows they were a naturally occurring species that was encountered by the Jockey.
QuoteCertain changes are required especially in certain situations.
And yet not only were these changes not required, but the situations which 'necessitated' (sic) them weren't, either.
QuoteI'm glad they didnt went with the Predalien hugging humans. Imagine that huge moffo sitting on someones face.
That's exactly what it does, man.
Quote from: SyntaX on Oct 30, 2007, 08:36:54 AM
Damn, why does this thead still exist?
Because people want to discuss it?
QuoteIts getting painful to read.
No one's forcing you to keep reading it.
I was more than willing to give this movie a chance until the one-two blow of the PredAlien came about. That literally killed any hope I had of even enjoying the film, let alone thinking it'll be good.
Well, you could give this a chance SiL. For all you know it COULD work out just fine.
I'm actually glad this thread is still going. You get to read a lot of different point of views.
Actually i think this thread is the perfect example as to why a message boards exist in the first place.
Great and passionate conversation.
As for the lifecycle itself it does contradict everything that has come before it. But then again I going to give it a chance and see how it plays. If it sucks in the end...well there's not much anyone can do about it.
The predalien is the thorn in my side with this movie. Everything else I've been pretty much fine with. The regular aliens look great IMO.
Two cents.
1. Someone please tell me how making a fictional Alien species with unknown origins act like reality-based Earth creatures is more believable.
2. Someone please tell me how the regurgitation method goes against things that were previously seen when no one ever saw a young queen without walls around it, meaning that it was not in a situation where even attempting the regurgitation would make sense because there's no one in the room with her.
I am not sure about the new method, am going to wait until I've seen the film before I pass judgement! But what does bother me slightly is that when someone is facehugged the facehugger stays on it's victim fo quite sometime for a reason to implant the embryo! now all of a sudden the Predalien queen comes along and vomits over someone and the embryo is planted straight away, so if the aliens can do this then what is the point of the facehuggers?
Quote from: Clemens on Oct 30, 2007, 11:11:39 AM
I am not sure about the new method, am going to wait until I've seen the film before I pass judgement! But what does bother me slightly is that when someone is facehugged the facehugger stays on it's victim fo quite sometime for a reason to implant the embryo! now all of a sudden the Predalien queen comes along and vomits over someone and the embryo is planted straight away, so if the aliens can do this then what is the point of the facehuggers?
Only a young Queen is able to do this, and I'd be willing to bet that it's either a trait used in dire situations, or it's a trait that it loses once it is able to lay eggs. Most likely both.
The facehuggers remain. Its just a new method and might not even be shown all the time. Its the Predaliens way to reproduce and "ensure" the survival of her species. The only thing I'm wondering is what will come out of the Human host when a Predalien impregnates him/her? A Predalien or normal Xenomorph?
Quote from: SyntaX on Oct 30, 2007, 11:17:57 AM
The only thing I'm wondering is what will come out of the Human host when a Predalien impregnates him/her? A Predalien or normal Xenomorph?
Now there's an interesting thought.
Quote from: SyntaX on Oct 30, 2007, 11:17:57 AM
The facehuggers remain. Its just a new method and might not even be shown all the time. Its the Predaliens way to reproduce and "ensure" the survival of her species. The only thing I'm wondering is what will come out of the Human host when a Predalien impregnates him/her? A Predalien or normal Xenomorph?
I would have thought it would take the human dna and come out as a normal alien!
Quote from: SyntaX on Oct 30, 2007, 08:36:54 AM
Damn, why does this thead still exist?
Its getting painful to read. Diehard Alien fans cant believe the Bro's actually had the balls to put in yet another reproduction cycle. And, if you think about it ... there have been plenty.
ANDQuote[...] Is it SO hard to understand that AVP:R is introducing its OWN regurgitating method? Is that SO hard to accept? For some, yeah.. for others its something new and fresh. Its a bold move by the directors and I sure hope it turns out well.
AND THISQuoteCertain changes are required especially in certain situations. The Predalien doesnt have an egg-sack so an alternative way of breading HAS to be found. Hence the vomitting. I'm pretty much OKAY with the idea, it COULD have been better though but im also GLAD they didnt bring back the Queen yet again to show her JUST shittting out eggs. I'm glad they didnt went with the Predalien hugging humans. Imagine that huge moffo sitting on someones face.
*Barfing*Quote from: Gremlien on Oct 30, 2007, 11:00:34 AM
2. Someone please tell me how the regurgitation method goes against things that were previously seen when no one ever saw a young queen without walls around it, meaning that it was not in a situation where even attempting the regurgitation would make sense because there's no one in the room with her.
This pathetic excuse has been demolished 40 or 50 pages back...get over it...
<3 u 2 Gates. Gotta love that direct approach lol
I'm not reading back through 144 pages, LOL . . . so this may have been discussed . . .
Anyway, one thing I was thinking was that it could be a very disturbing, creepy outcome, this new reproduction method . . . maybe the victim slowly morphs into an Alien, or the Alien grows to full size inside her as parts of her body fall off to reveal the abomination inside.
Quote from: AlienatedPredator on Oct 30, 2007, 12:53:43 PM
maybe the victim slowly morphs into an Alien, or the Alien grows to full size inside her as parts of her body fall off to reveal the abomination inside.
Conventions that were done in the 1950s and 60s in B-grade horror flicks.
We've seen plenty of red flags that point to AVP:R as being another 5.0/10 slasher fest with just enough fan service to keep people in the seats, and this reproductive cycle is another example. The whole thing stinks like a Tremors sequel, and it's not making a convincing case against the death of the franchise.
No vaginas in outer space!
Dont know if this has been addressed or not, im not reading 144 pages of this hehe but ive read enough and i bring to you this: Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, and Resurrection (if you like to admit there was a 4th film) all took place in the future, and AvP and AvPR take place in present day. So wouldnt their life cycle in the AvP movies be considered "normal" for the aliens at that time? And their life cycle/behavior evolved into what it is in the original movies?.....just a thought...
Quote from: Trioxin83 on Oct 30, 2007, 03:32:06 PM
Dont know if this has been addressed or not, im not reading 144 pages of this hehe but ive read enough and i bring to you this: Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, and Resurrection (if you like to admit there was a 4th film) all took place in the future, and AvP and AvPR take place in present day. So wouldnt their life cycle in the AvP movies be considered "normal" for the aliens at that time? And their life cycle/behavior evolved into what it is in the original movies?.....just a thought...
The Alien of the first film was part of a derelict spacecraft which had been there for millions of years. Unless they missed the evolutionary jump, they were relatively the same for millions of years with seemingly no change. To imagine that in a few hundred years from AVPR they'd evolved an entirely new life cycle is a bit unreal when millions of years did nothing of the sort.
I think it will be entertaining to watch, but I think its a load of balls to be honest, it totally messes up the reproduction cylce of the alien. Its just a device to shock the viewer to make more money.
Quote from: 1,000 Shards on Oct 30, 2007, 05:41:11 PM
I think it will be entertaining to watch, but I think its a load of balls to be honest, it totally messes up the reproduction cylce of the alien. Its just a device to shock the viewer to make more money.
Maybe, but does it ruin the movie and the franchise like some people here seem to think?
Well, just do what I do with films in the franchise I dislike. f**k it and forget about it. I like to think the Alien series ended with Alien 3, and A:R is more of a live-action comic book what if story(which it basically is anyway). So if AVP-R pisses you off, just say f**k it.
I\'m still in the band that thinks its a good thing we got more movies. People are forgetting, these are AVP movies, with aliens in them. Not Alien movies with predators.
If they want to expand the universe that way then so be it, it doesnt take anything away from the alien or predator films.
The old star wars rule, the new ones dont, same sh*t different franchise.
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 30, 2007, 06:04:34 PM
I\'m still in the band that thinks its a good thing we got more movies. People are forgetting, these are AVP movies, with aliens in them. Not Alien movies with predators.
I still believe any cinematic outing with the creatures have a responsibility to conduct itself in a fashion becoming. Its kinda like a family honor thing.
Having said that , this gag would be the least of my worries really.
Quote from: SuicideDoors on Oct 26, 2007, 08:01:45 AM
Don't think this got posted in the PredAlien pictures thread, so here goes:
QuoteUnlike the original Aliens, the PredAlien doesn't lay eggs, which are then transported via "facehugger". The new creature can just regurgitate in it's victim's mouth. Don't try this at home.
See picture four in the Slideshow on the USA Today article.
ahhhh leave it to the boys and girls at 20th cent properties to monkey around with a 30+ year old concept and probably have it make lil' to no and most certinly less sense than the original gestation process. I think the hollywood "machine" needs to have its tires rotated about every 2 weeks. I hate to say it... but I fear they are gonna drop the ball as badly as AvP one... which was far far far removed from its Darkhorse comics origins. ???
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 30, 2007, 06:07:22 PM
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 30, 2007, 06:04:34 PM
I\\\'m still in the band that thinks its a good thing we got more movies. People are forgetting, these are AVP movies, with aliens in them. Not Alien movies with predators.
I still believe any cinematic outing with the creatures have a responsibility to conduct itself in a fashion becoming. Its kinda like a family honor thing.
Having said that , this gag would be the least of my worries really.
Look at Police acedemy? or jaws? or Freddy or wait... theres too many...
Films and budget degenerate, its the way it goes.
So are you seeing this film with that view?
Franchises fall to the wayside because directors (and the company) let them.
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 30, 2007, 06:16:10 PM
So are you seeing this film with that view?
Franchises fall to the wayside because directors let them.
Of course, then i can be happy if it exceeds my expectations. Anyone going in looking for the next Alien /aliens/ predator / predator 2 will be way off the mark.
You only have to look at the budget and script to tell how much of an uphill battle these guys are up against, which is why i feel sorry for them when the take so much pre-release crap from die hards.
I'll have to say im a bigger optimist than you are on that issue then ;)
I dont even blame The Strauses for this cheaper feel now. I blame AVP, Predator 2 and A: Res and their makers.
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 30, 2007, 06:23:35 PM
I\'ll have to say im a bigger optimist than you are on that issue then ;)
I dont even blame The Strauses for this slasher feel now. I blame AVP, Predator 2 and A: Res and their makers.
Pred 2 i dont think has anything to do with these, AR def was the start of the end, and AVP had the chance to bring it back, sadly it missed, by miles. Paul Anderson was just a mad mad choice. It was like handing over the keys to your new porche to someone who drives a Ford...
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 30, 2007, 06:26:06 PM
Pred 2 i dont think has anything to do with these
Cant change what isnt acknowledged. Predator 2 cared about grit. That was nice except it cared less about dialogue and choreography lol
Quote from: AshMichaels on Oct 30, 2007, 06:10:55 PM
Quote from: SuicideDoors on Oct 26, 2007, 08:01:45 AM
Don't think this got posted in the PredAlien pictures thread, so here goes:
QuoteUnlike the original Aliens, the PredAlien doesn't lay eggs, which are then transported via "facehugger". The new creature can just regurgitate in it's victim's mouth. Don't try this at home.
See picture four in the Slideshow on the USA Today article.
ahhhh leave it to the boys and girls at 20th cent properties to monkey around with a 30+ year old concept and probably have it make lil' to no and most certinly less sense than the original gestation process. I think the hollywood "machine" needs to have its tires rotated about every 2 weeks. I hate to say it... but I fear they are gonna drop the ball as badly as AvP one... which was far far far removed from its Darkhorse comics origins. ???
This is an irrational statement imo. The bros couldnt f**k it up that bad if they tried.
The effect is cumulative. You get continual and slow decay of sticking to the core concepts, which may excite newcomers, but which honks off the old guard ot the point where you see what we see here. No one has a problem with change that makes sense or places style above "fact"/canon as long as it doesn't disregard what makes said franchise cool in the first place.
You'll find probably 20 complaints about Wolf on the entire net.
You'll find 20 complaints about the p-queen on this PAGE.
Also bear in mind that originally the Pqueen was supposed to use Pred TECH.
Actually an Alien figuring out how something works or its effects and going NO U doesn't bother me, if used SPARINGLY and with CONTEXT
A predalien mowing down the army with a plasmacaster removes the need to have a predator in this film at all.
if an Alien can grow to full MASS in 10 minutes, then it should be some super mega mass to energy converting monstrosity capable of barfing plasma not chestbursters, and god forbid anyone ever punch a hole in it.
So when you hear a Strause say they're being true to canon and going by what has been established before... I'm not seeing it.
I'm seeing a Dark Horse miniseries. right down to the WTF enhancement to the Alien "order of things".
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 30, 2007, 06:29:50 PM
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 30, 2007, 06:26:06 PM
Pred 2 i dont think has anything to do with these
Cant change what isnt acknowledged. Predator 2 cared about grit. That was nice except it cared less about dialogue and choreography lol
it still had a predator feel to it though, well in in my opinion. AR was ok, but it didnt have the same feel to me as the others, and AVP was straight outa the playstation...
This one I\\\'m holding out for the predator feeling like the pred and the aliens feeling like the aliens in Camerons version. Story is back seat for me, I\\\'m happy for some good action and fight scenes, i\\\'m a big fan of the comics and alot of them had daft story\\\'s too.
Quote from: Anomaly on Oct 30, 2007, 06:29:50 PM
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 30, 2007, 06:26:06 PM
Pred 2 i dont think has anything to do with these
Cant change what isnt acknowledged. Predator 2 cared about grit. That was nice except it cared less about dialogue and choreography lol
P2 had some pretty memorable dialogue though. "SNIIIIFF! EEEEUUUAAAHH!! Come and get it! El-Scorpio is ready! HAHA!!"
Quote from: Horhey on Oct 30, 2007, 06:54:23 PM
P2 had some pretty memorable dialogue though.
Yes, but the sneaky part were the horrendous lines. I enjoyed big parts of it also, but there are sections a future director just should know is not the norm.
Quote from: SlappyMCnasty on Oct 30, 2007, 05:03:33 PM
i HAE MADE AN ILUSTRATION OF THE ENRIRE NEW LIFE CYKLE ASPECT!!
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi242.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff68%2Fbajskorvar%2FPREDALIENRAPE.jpg&hash=381f3f7b6675f62624621a9ec1b24eadddd6bee5)
if that was the general idea, I would accept it, but I still don't know that this it is
Dom
I'm pretty sure thats the accepted idea, the long tongue come out and places the seed down the throat.
I think its a great idea. Very creepy , Very Giger.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi242.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff68%2Fbajskorvar%2FPREDALIENRAPE.jpg&hash=381f3f7b6675f62624621a9ec1b24eadddd6bee5)
:D the nipples killed me. Truth it looks very Gigerish but I am still sad that they put third life cycle in this film. I think that it will spoil it.
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 30, 2007, 07:54:41 PM
I'm pretty sure thats the accepted idea, the long tongue come out and places the seed down the throat.
I think its a great idea. Very creepy , Very Giger.
After seeing that goofy edited pic, you still think it is a good idea. lol.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 30, 2007, 08:19:36 PM
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 30, 2007, 07:54:41 PM
I'm pretty sure thats the accepted idea, the long tongue come out and places the seed down the throat.
I think its a great idea. Very creepy , Very Giger.
After seeing that goofy edited pic, you still think it is a good idea. lol.
Saying that any aspect of this movie is very Giger is like saying House of the Dead is very Kubrick. I think I'm leaning more with Xhan and TheAncientEnemy on this one.
Quote from: Accaris on Oct 30, 2007, 08:35:29 PM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 30, 2007, 08:19:36 PM
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 30, 2007, 07:54:41 PM
I'm pretty sure thats the accepted idea, the long tongue come out and places the seed down the throat.
I think its a great idea. Very creepy , Very Giger.
After seeing that goofy edited pic, you still think it is a good idea. lol.
Saying that any aspect of this movie is very Giger is like saying House of the Dead is very Kubrick. I think I'm leaning more with Xhan and TheAncientEnemy on this one.
Suprised he hasnt been called a blasphemer yet. ::)
Inspired by Giger? Possibly but the implenentation remains to be seen. The overall tone of the rest of the movie does suggest to me that this might just end up like live action tentacle hentai and not in a good way.
Quote from: Horhey on Oct 30, 2007, 08:43:51 PM
Quote from: Accaris on Oct 30, 2007, 08:35:29 PM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 30, 2007, 08:19:36 PM
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 30, 2007, 07:54:41 PM
I'm pretty sure thats the accepted idea, the long tongue come out and places the seed down the throat.
I think its a great idea. Very creepy , Very Giger.
After seeing that goofy edited pic, you still think it is a good idea. lol.
Saying that any aspect of this movie is very Giger is like saying House of the Dead is very Kubrick. I think I'm leaning more with Xhan and TheAncientEnemy on this one.
Suprised he hasnt been called a blasphemer yet. ::)
Meh its less about what highlandpred said and more about what the movie looks like overall
Giger is a genius, but every aspect of his art/designs is not compatible with an Alien film. He does some weird, out there shit, really repulsive and sometimes beautiful at the same time, but it all doesn't have to do with Alien.
I remember watching a behind the scenes thing and he was going off and saying all this weird shit. lol. He talked about in some pic, how a person in it was going for a kiss with the alien and it got his eye. Im not joking, i think its on the quadriolgy related to alien 3.
So simply saying something is gigeresque doesn't mean it belongs in anything to do with aliens just because of that.
If giger wrote the story for an alien film, im sure it would not make sense, no disrespect to him, but its not his medium, his legacy is and has been the design of the original alien, not the writing of the plot.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 30, 2007, 09:05:04 PM
Giger is a genius, but every aspect of his art/designs is not compatible with an Alien film. He does some weird, out there shit, really repulsive and sometimes beautiful at the same time, but it all doesn't have to do with Alien.
I remember watching a behind the scenes thing and he was going off and saying all this weird shit. lol. He talked about in some pic, how a person in it was going for a kiss with the alien and it got his eye. Im not joking, i think its on the quadriolgy related to alien 3.
So simply saying something is gigeresque doesn't mean it belongs in anything to do with aliens just because of that.
If giger wrote the story for an alien film, im sure it would not make sense, no disrespect to him, but its not his medium, his legacy is and has been the design of the original alien, not the writing of the plot.
This is kind of OT... but if someone were inspired by Giger's art to write an Alien movie, and they put the right director at the helm, and got Giger onboard for design, I bet it would be one surreal, frightening/nightmarish film. That's the kind of Alien sequel/reboot I'd like to see.
I doubt its going to be a magical tentacle...probably mouth to mouth...using the tounge...
Hey this looks like a Giger ideas so its posible the Bros got the idea from his one painting...
Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Oct 30, 2007, 08:57:49 PM
Inspired by Giger? Possibly but the implenentation remains to be seen. The overall tone of the rest of the movie does suggest to me that this might just end up like live action tentacle hentai and not in a good way.
At least we know Fox is so desperate for seats that they'll even appeal to perverts and yaoi fan fiction writers alike.
And that pic...ugh. I don't picture it like that, thankfully. I imagine that it'll probably be an embryo in a sac getting jettisoned in a burst of fluids ala Resident Evil 2.
If we even see that? who knows what it'll be hopefully not to preverted. more horrific
Alirght, I'm gonna go through the things we have known about the Aliens, from watching the movies and I added the info from AVP-R:
ALIEN (TR/DC):
-Alien eggs. They are oval and open up, via petal-like flaps at the top, when movement/host is detected. They are also transparent, when lit.
- Facehugger - Looks something like a crab. Emerges from the egg and attaches to host, by clasping it's claws around a host's face/wrapping tail around neck, implants embryo and then dies.
- Acid is the blood of the creature
- Chestburster - Infant Alien that is like a serpent. Bursts from host's body, after a number of hours, and qucikly slithers away. NOTE: Hands and arms of the burster were removed, before filming
- Skin sheds/Alien becomes full-grown in a matter of hours
- Alien appears biomechanical, with a exoskeleton, is able to stand and walk bipedial (but is also believed to be a quadriped, as shown in behind the scenes footage) has a smooth dome-head, tubes sticking out of its back, spear-tipped tail (apparently, used to either kill or paralyze it's victims), inner-jaws attached to a tongue (to instantly kill it's victim, with one strike through the brain)
- Alien likes to hide in dark places (tunnels, basements, etc) and preys on its victims with stealth (appearing behind the prey from above, sneaking up on them, etc)
-Alien is also able to blend in with it's environment
-Alien is able to cocoon hosts for egg-morphing, as a survival method to keep the reproduction going and the apparent explaination of how the eggs are created.
ALIENS (TR/SE):
- Introduces the riged heads of the Aliens, as a possible sign of age or it could be a design choice by the filmmakers
- Chestburster is seen with arms/hands
- Aliens crawl and climb on walls/ceilings and are able to swim
- Alien drones create a hive and now, the creatures are more like a colony of bees or ants
- Aliens grab hosts/cocoon them in the hive to be used for face-hugging
- Full-grown Queen Alien is introduced. The Queen appears imobiled on a egg sac, which lays the eggs. NOTE: Possible that this may also eliminate egg-morphing theory, unless this is just another alternative method to keep the cycle going.
-Alien drones stay around and "protect" the hive/Queen
- Queen is able to be detached from egg sac and run around freely, when threatened
-Queen moves very fast
-Queen uses tail to impale enemies
ALIEN 3 (TR/AC):
-An egg on the Sulaco suggests the Queen layed one final egg, without an egg sac
- A normal facehugger apparently throws acid on a cryotube and attaches to either Newt's or Ripley's face, before the Sulaco pod crashes onto Fury
- The same facehugger is still alive, after impregnating Ripley (Goes against the idea that facehuggers die, after implanting a host). NOTE: In the Alien 3 comics, the facehugger implanted the embryo in Newt, but during the crash, the chestburster crawled into Ripley's mouth.
-In the TR of Alien 3, the same facehugger attaches to a dog and the "runner" chestburster (quadriped) is born
-In the AC of Alien 3, the Super-facehugger is introduced and attached itself to an ox and the same "runner" chestburster is born. NOTE: Where was the Super-Facehugger egg?
-It is also confirmed that the Alien will take on the characteristics of it's host (in Alien and Aliens, it was unclear if the look depended on the type of host or if it was natural for every Alien)
-While still maturing, the Alien is able to spew acid from its mouth (more like vomit), as a defense method (i.e. Murphy scene)
-The Alien design has the creature with a smooth head and running around as more of a quadriped, without the tubes on the back
-The Alien is VERY fast
- The Queen is able to be born via chestburster
-Aliens will not kill hosts with chestbursters (possibly, because its just a Queen)
-Queen chesbursters have arms/hands and a crest at birth
ALIEN RESURRECTION:
-Queen rapidly grows and while in containment, it is able to produce eggs
-Aliens have no problem sacrificing one of their own to survive
-Aliens are seen swimming like iguanas, with a more flat/fin-like tail blade
-Aliens still have smooth heads and gain back the tubes on their backs, but now the design is that the creatures have bigger chins/more sloped dome
-Aliens spit a stream of acid (more projectile than the Alien3 creature) in the faces of their prey
-Facehuggers are seen leaping a great distance from eggs and onto their victims
-As a strange effect from the human cloning, the Queen is given a second reproductive cycle, which is to give birth (like a human) to a 'Newborn" (half-human/half-Alien hybrid)
-A normal chestburster has no arms/hands, but the design of the creatures head is different than previous films.
AVP: Alien vs Predator:
-The Aliens are given a special hormone, from the Predators, in order to speed up the cycle procress (which is not explained in the film, but by the director) and thus, the chestbursters are born in a matter of minutes and not hours
-Facehuggers are seen leaping a great distance from eggs onto victims (even more than Alien Resurrection)
-Chestbursters still have no arms/hands
-The Aliens can survive in very cold temperatures
-The Aliens retain the smooth head and tubes on the back, but loose the flat tail
-The Aliens can now claw at their opponents with their fingernails, as well as stab them through the chest with their spear-tipped tail (as indicated in ALIEN and seen in ALIENS with the Queen)
-The Queen still moves REALLY fast
-The Queen kills the "Scar" Predator, even though he has a chestburster
-PredAlien chestburster emerges from the dead body of "Scar", with the mandibles
ALIENS VS. PREDATOR - REQUIEM:
-PredAlien is either born a Queen or molting into a Queen. Idea is that Aliens will molt into Queens, when there is no Queen present. NOTE: Possible that this may also eliminate egg-morphing theory, unless this is just another alternative method for Alien drones to keep the cycle going.
- Assuming the PredAlien is a born Queen, this will be the first time a young, free Queen (between chestburster and full-grown, egg laying adult) has been seen on film
-New reproduction/survival method for the Queen is introduced (when she is young and roaming around freely), the Queen is able to "regurgitate" embryos (unsure if it's a liquid vomit substance, a tube to pass down the throat, or chestburster body passing) into hosts. Method used, to (possibly) create quick Alien drones to be used to construct a hive/protect the Queen, so she can settle and start mass producing eggs via egg sac
Doesn't elimanate Egg-morphing...nothing has ever proven that something else could never happen...
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Oct 30, 2007, 09:49:44 PM
ALIENS VS. PREDATOR - REQUIEM:
-PredAlien is either born a Queen or molting into a Queen. New idea is that Aliens will molt into Queens, when there is no Queen present (still eliminates egg morphing theory)
This concept is only new to the movies becouse in the AVP 2 game a dominant Alien will molt into a Queen.
That reminds me little bickering has been over this idea...which has more resons to be uncanon than the RM
I edited that post a little bit, so that the egg morphing theory is not totally cancelled out (as it really shouldn't be).
Thank you for your responses
QuoteDoesn't elimanate Egg-morphing...nothing has ever proven that something else could never happen...
Yes it does. Why go to the trouble of catching one host to eggmorph and a second for the hugger to impregnate (with no guarantee that the resulting burster will be a queen) when you can simply begin the molting process yourself, impregnate a few hosts and then begin laying eggs?
This new reproductive cycle kills egg-morphing stone dead.
reasons it might not, egg morphing is more covert...Molting might take a while so it could Egg morph to get a helper...and i'm sure theirs other reasons.
The only way we are to believe that the queen could have layed a final egg without the egg-sac, would be if it were the case that the complete eggs formed in her abdomen independent of the egg-sac and were then simply pushed through to it. (this would make the egg-sac redundant and somewhat obsolete)
However, they are not completely formed by the time they reach the beginnings of the egg-sac connected her abdomen. Therefore the egg in Alien 3 still remains unexplained.
Also I stand by the fact that the new reproductive cycle doesn't make any sense, its not a matter of there simply being no evidence that a young queen could do it, it also in terms of the science/mechanics of it, doesn't make any sense.
How does the predalien have chestburster embryos in her body, its even a stretch to argue she could have complete eggs, but this is beyond that even. If she had anything it would be only partial material which would later form the egg in her egg-sac.
To argue that the chestburster embryo builds first then grows a facehugger around it, and then the egg around that, is sad. Its pretty ridiculous.
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 30, 2007, 11:22:02 PM
The only way we are to believe that the queen could have layed a final egg without the egg-sac, would be if it were the case that the complete eggs formed in her abdomen independent of the egg-sac and were then simply pushed through to it. (this would make the egg-sac redundant and somewhat obsolete)
However, they are not completely formed by the time they reach the beginnings of the egg-sac connected her abdomen. Therefore the egg in Alien 3 still remains unexplained.
Also I stand by the fact that the new reproductive cycle doesn't make any sense, its not a matter of there simply being no evidence that a young queen could do it, it also in terms of the science/mechanics of it, doesn't make any sense.
How does the predalien have chestburster embryos in her body, its even a stretch to argue she could have complete eggs, but this is beyond that even. If she had anything it would be only partial material which would later form the egg in her egg-sac.
To argue that the chestburster embryo builds first then grows a facehugger around it, and then the egg around that, is sad. Its pretty ridiculous.
It makes just as much sense as Turning a human into an egg and making a face hugger from bretts body parts....
Science doesnt come into these things too much, more imagination.
Quote from: highlandpred on Oct 30, 2007, 11:55:51 PM
Quote from: ballzanya on Oct 30, 2007, 11:22:02 PM
The only way we are to believe that the queen could have layed a final egg without the egg-sac, would be if it were the case that the complete eggs formed in her abdomen independent of the egg-sac and were then simply pushed through to it. (this would make the egg-sac redundant and somewhat obsolete)
However, they are not completely formed by the time they reach the beginnings of the egg-sac connected her abdomen. Therefore the egg in Alien 3 still remains unexplained.
Also I stand by the fact that the new reproductive cycle doesn't make any sense, its not a matter of there simply being no evidence that a young queen could do it, it also in terms of the science/mechanics of it, doesn't make any sense.
How does the predalien have chestburster embryos in her body, its even a stretch to argue she could have complete eggs, but this is beyond that even. If she had anything it would be only partial material which would later form the egg in her egg-sac.
To argue that the chestburster embryo builds first then grows a facehugger around it, and then the egg around that, is sad. Its pretty ridiculous.
It makes just as much sense as Turning a human into an egg and making a face hugger from bretts body parts....
Science doesnt come into these things too much, more imagination.
well i might concede that one. but still, science fiction is no excuse for total abandonment of any logic or reason. You can't take away all believability and have things work, only stretch it a little bit due to the sci-fi aspect. But the chestburster embryo is a little more far-fetched than egg morphing, although many find both non-canon or controversial. There is at least a film precident for the egg morphing that if egg morphing were to show up in avp-r, the directors could reference in their defense of why they incorporated it and why it doesn't break canon.
But for the vomiting/embryo thing, there is no such plausible defense available, placing it in a more ridiculous category.
QuoteIt makes just as much sense as Turning a human into an egg and making a face hugger from bretts body parts....
Yes, skipping elements of the life cycle is EXACTLY the same thing...
Well its not that ridcousl when you thing of what is used for....
Chestburter needs Facehugger to move, Fachugger needs egg for protection.
QuoteWell its not that ridcousl when you thing of what is used for....
Sounds pretty ridcousl to me...
Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2007, 12:48:10 AM
QuoteWell its not that ridcousl when you thing of what is used for....
Sounds pretty ridcousl to me...
Yea...it is when people don't look at the point and look at the errors...pretty ridiculous
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 31, 2007, 12:35:29 AM
Well its not that ridcousl when you thing of what is used for....
Chestburter needs Facehugger to move, Fachugger needs egg for protection.
you almost seem to be implying that facehuggers carry live developed chestburster around inside them. lol
They only carry small little oval, egg that are implanted in the person's body. Its not a fetal chestburster.
It develops into one in the host.
That's not the point, no matter what stage it is it can't devolp without a facehugger (or new theroy) so, that really doesn't debunk my point
QuoteYea...it is when people don't look at the point and look at the errors...pretty ridiculous
The point IS an error. Can't have one without the other.
Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2007, 01:03:48 AM
QuoteYea...it is when people don't look at the point and look at the errors...pretty ridiculous
The point IS an error. Can't have one without the other.
spelling error, avoiding my real point? because in case you didn't read the second half it's not how to spell ridiculous
Quit spelling like arnie and use a thesaurus son!
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 31, 2007, 12:49:22 AM
Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2007, 12:48:10 AM
QuoteWell its not that ridcousl when you thing of what is used for....
Sounds pretty ridcousl to me...
Yea...it is when people don't look at the point and look at the errors...pretty ridiculous
But you make them all the time.... ???
Quote from: Spaghetti on Oct 31, 2007, 01:08:39 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 31, 2007, 12:49:22 AM
Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2007, 12:48:10 AM
QuoteWell its not that ridcousl when you thing of what is used for....
Sounds pretty ridcousl to me...
Yea...it is when people don't look at the point and look at the errors...pretty ridiculous
But you make them all the time.... ???
Sorry not perfect little spelling angels like you guys ::)
Quote from: Kimarhi on Oct 31, 2007, 01:07:48 AM
Quit spelling like arnie and use a thesaurus son!
Oh no, maybe he is the governator himself. lol.
Everybody get to da choppa!!!
*claps* you've done pretty good so far of avoiding my point....
Quotespelling error, avoiding my real point?
Ah shit. Did it again. Tried to have have an intelligent conversation with the Major.
When will I learn?
*deep breathe*
We're still trying to decipher your point.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 31, 2007, 01:11:50 AM
*claps* you've done pretty good so far of avoiding my point....
how was I avoidng your point, when you were arguing with someone else? lol.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 30, 2007, 09:54:27 PM
Doesn't elimanate Egg-morphing...nothing has ever proven that something else could never happen...
Play the game and see if you can win a prize, Major!
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/xenomorphine/AVPCanonGame.jpg
Ah, the joys of having something on hand to save me having to type everything out... :)
Sorry i'll dumb it down for the kiddes....
Chestburster embryo what ever you want to call it....uses the Facehugger for transportation/implantation (to get in someone kiddes)
Facehugger needs egg from protection...
Xeno...i already looked at that and Alien fans will never be satified. there is no way to win....i just wish i could se what would happen with Cameron or Ridley at the helm and how many complaints they get...
Also this is what i was responding to...to make it clearer "To argue that the chestburster embryo builds first then grows a facehugger around it, and then the egg around that, is sad. Its pretty ridiculous."
QuoteAh, the joys of having something on hand to save me having to type everything out...
I'd suggest putting it in your sig - except the Predator Khan thing to too sweet to ditch.
Major - No that's just as dumb as your original post and still lacks anything vaguely coherent.
Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2007, 01:21:26 AM
Major - No that's just as dumb as your original post and still lacks anything vaguely coherent.
and i'm the dumb one... ::)
Well you seem to be incapable to elaborating on what you're trying to say, so yeah I agree. You are dumb.
Everyone who knows me begs to differ...
if you wanted elaborating how about ask for it?
At least i'm smart enough not to lower myself to insults when i can't think of a way to respond to a post...
Finally...
He said they don't build around each other... which would mean that a facehugger makes the chestburster fetus?
what's really amazing is you guys think you completely understand an alien organisim...its fun to listen to it all (incase you can't understand that....your all full of it...just a tad)
QuoteEveryone who knows me begs to differ...
:D
That could go anywhere, but I'll resist.
Ahem.
I've gone back over the last few pages trying to figure out what your point is - and I still have NFI, so I'll have to leave it.
You are confined in the Alien "Canon" box so ::)
moving on
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 31, 2007, 01:40:09 AM
You are confined in the Alien "Canon" box so ::)
moving on
yeah, making sense is such a confining bitch. lol.
Why stick to any sense of realism on any level, all aspects of a piece of fiction must
go out on a limb to be more ridiculous than necessary. ::)
(no there will be no "ridcousl" joke here.. wait..shit. lol.)
Going out on a limb?
i simply stated a Fachugger needs and egg for protection...and a fetus needs a facehugger to get to a host...real crazy there
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 31, 2007, 01:40:09 AM
You are confined in the Alien "Canon" box so ::)
moving on
Consistency can be a harsh mistress......
Quote from: automirage04 on Oct 31, 2007, 02:02:51 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 31, 2007, 01:40:09 AM
You are confined in the Alien "Canon" box so ::)
moving on
Consistency can be a harsh mistress......
Not as harsh as one might think. The Runner in A3 wasen't consistant nor the Queen in Aliens
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 31, 2007, 02:06:21 AM
Not as harsh as one might think. The Runner in A3 wasen't consistant nor the Queen in Aliens
Neither contradicted what had been set out prior. They expanded without pissing on what the previous film/s had shown.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 31, 2007, 02:11:53 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 31, 2007, 02:06:21 AM
Not as harsh as one might think. The Runner in A3 wasen't consistant nor the Queen in Aliens
Neither contradicted what had been set out prior. They expanded without pissing on what the previous film/s had shown.
previous films had never been in that sitation....niether has this idea, the genreal sitation has never happened so its open. it doesn't destroy what's in place, it just shows that Aliens don't follow the rules other animals do
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 31, 2007, 01:56:38 AM
Going out on a limb?
i simply stated a Fachugger needs and egg for protection...and a fetus needs a facehugger to get to a host...real crazy there
i meant the whole new reproduction thing, which you don't seem to mind. Since canon is such a non-issue that can be ignored. ::)
Didn't say that, its not that insane is why i don't mind it...just because it doesn't follow the exact thing the others did doesn't mean it should be burned at the stake.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 31, 2007, 02:16:41 AM
just because it doesn't follow the exact thing the others did doesn't mean it should be burned at the stake.
Of course not. But when it doesn't follow
and it sucks, then you've got a problem. :)
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 31, 2007, 02:16:41 AM
Didn't say that, its not that insane is why i don't mind it...just because it doesn't follow the exact thing the others did doesn't mean it should be burned at the stake.
It outright contradicts other films. Lone aliens are seen and they never begin molting into a queen. The whole vomiting has never even been speculated or intended before inclusion in this film, its also arbitary to argue that all young queens would have done it.
Plus if there is a lone alien and it can egg morph, why would it do that if it could start becoming a queen itself? You see what i mean you can't have them both be the secondary, emergency reproductive method.
If there is too many issues with that, the movie should have touched neither or the situation altogether.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 31, 2007, 02:06:21 AM
Not as harsh as one might think. The Runner in A3 wasen't consistant nor the Queen in Aliens
If you'll read some of my posts on my other threads, you'll see that I judged A3 negatively for its inconsistencies as well.
As for the Queen in A2: Alien1
forced us to ask ourselves where these eggs came from. Providing an answer to an already existing question is not inconsistent.
This regurgitation idea (while I am not as strongly opposed to it as most people seem to be) answers a "question" that we never asked ourselves. It also forces us to rationalize the apparent contradictions to A3, and A:R, which are already canon.
No one was wondering what a "young" queen would be like, because we saw a Queen in A:R that had been raised to maturity in captivity, and there was nothing that would have led us to believe that there was a stage between "burster" and "mature queen".
And the "young Queen" explanation is crap anyway. How the hell are they going to work that into that movie? Have any of these characters seen a grown queen? NO. So no one is going to be able to explain what is going on to the audience.
I imagine it will go something like this:
Man: OMFG what is that thing? Its bigger than the others! And it just threw up on Bill!
Woman: It must be their leader. Or something. Like ...a queen! But maybe its not fully grown yet.
Man: Sure ... that makes sense. What will it do when it does grow up?
Woman: Well, I would imagine it lays eggs.
Man: Its all so obvious!
It's pretty hilarious how people say something sucks when they haven't even seen it!! ;D ;D
This thread has broken all the records ever in the history of Geekiness!! :-X
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 31, 2007, 02:06:21 AM
Not as harsh as one might think. The Runner in A3 wasen't consistant nor the Queen in Aliens
If you'll read some of my posts on my other threads, you'll see that I judged A3 negatively for its inconsistencies as well.
As for the Queen in A2: Alien1
forced us to ask ourselves where these eggs came from. Providing an answer to an already existing question is not inconsistent.
This regurgitation idea (while I am not as strongly opposed to it as most people seem to be) answers a "question" that we never asked ourselves. It also forces us to rationalize the apparent contradictions to A3, and A:R, which are already canon.
No one was wondering what a "young" queen would be like, because we saw a Queen in A:R that had been raised to maturity in captivity, and there was nothing that would have led us to believe that there was a stage between "burster" and "mature queen".
And the "young Queen" explanation is crap anyway. How the hell are they going to work that into that movie? Have any of these characters seen a grown queen? NO. So no one is going to be able to explain what is going on to the audience.
I imagine it will go something like this:
Man: OMFG what is that thing? Its bigger than the others! And it just threw up on Bill!
Woman: It must be their leader. Or something. Like ...a queen! But maybe its not fully grown yet.
Man: Sure ... that makes sense. What will it do when it does grow up?
Woman: Well, I would imagine it lays eggs.
Man: Its all so obvious!
i think personally it wasen't a matter of "Wouldn't this be awesome." more of a "We can't have a Queen and Predalien...not enough money." To defend this idea...sicne few are...
having both for diffrenet sitations, in confined spaces a Queen really couldn' hide or be small enough to fit. second, its kinda hard to hide a Queen, if you egg morphed and got someone impreganted bingo express way to Hosts. if your a giant Queen, when people walk in they'll destroy the ship and eggs. if you use eggmorphing you can hide. now molting if your on the planet can hide long enough to molt and have pletny of hosts, no Queen? molting works alot better. Maybe not following whats set up but every new installment adds something, and this is no diffrent than adding a runner or Queen nothing imples that it could or couldn't do it
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 31, 2007, 02:26:24 AM
i think personally it wasen't a matter of "Wouldn't this be awesome." more of a "We can't have a Queen and Predalien...not enough money." To defend this idea...sicne few are...
having both for diffrenet sitations, in confined spaces a Queen really couldn' hide or be small enough to fit. second, its kinda hard to hide a Queen, if you egg morphed and got someone impreganted bingo express way to Hosts. if your a giant Queen, when people walk in they'll destroy the ship and eggs. if you use eggmorphing you can hide. now molting if your on the planet can hide long enough to molt and have pletny of hosts, no Queen? molting works alot better. Maybe not following whats set up but every new installment adds something, and this is no diffrent than adding a runner or Queen nothing imples that it could or couldn't do it
I am not adamantly against the idea. I just think that something this radically new needs to explained thoroughly to the audience, or else it will seem inconsistent.
I just can't imagine any scenario in which it can be explained well.
Well a visaul image hopefully will be given not for gross factor but for understanding...like in Alien Ash's screen and talking about the tube down his throat
The more they try and explain it the more inconsistent it will become (hard to imagine, but anyway).
Best not explain it at all and let people draw their own conclusions - though that probably wouldn't please the core demographic who need everything laid out with all the subtlety of a cricket bat.
Quote from: Demonio Cazador on Oct 31, 2007, 02:24:02 AM
It's pretty hilarious how people say something sucks when they haven't even seen it!!
I don't see how it's worse than the people praising it without having seen it.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 31, 2007, 02:35:32 AM
Quote from: Demonio Cazador on Oct 31, 2007, 02:24:02 AM
It's pretty hilarious how people say something sucks when they haven't even seen it!!
I don't see how it's worse than the people praising it without having seen it.
called giving it a chance...you should try it some time
I don't know how many times I have to say this. The DNA thing didn't come from Alien 3, but rather the very FIRST Alien film.
Its even mentioned by Shushett before the story became Alien.
For further proof, look at what they creators had originally intended the jockey bursted Alien to look like. It was obviously a massive mofo that took after its host. Not what we come to love in todays movies.
Fincher just took the idea and changed it around, since the only "hybrid" shown was one of Alien/Human origin.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 31, 2007, 02:37:02 AM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 31, 2007, 02:35:32 AM
Quote from: Demonio Cazador on Oct 31, 2007, 02:24:02 AM
It's pretty hilarious how people say something sucks when they haven't even seen it!!
I don't see how it's worse than the people praising it without having seen it.
called giving it a chance...you should try it some time
yyeeaaaahhh... that happened already remember?
Kimba,
And now we have Aliens with pecs.
Damn you Shusett!!!!
As for "giving it a chance" - I dunno about other people but all along I've been hearing bad thing after bad thing, but still trying to tell people stuff like "Wait till it's out", "You don't judge a painting by the initial rough sketch", etc.
But after the godawful PredAlien design and f**king moronic barfing - I've had enough of "giving it a chance".
Indeed. Though thats probably the reason the jockey ALIEN never made it into film. It was just to radical.
With that in mind, I don't mind the reflex idea, but like Scott would rather keep everything closer to the normal build of the regular alien.
Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2007, 02:32:55 AM
The more they try and explain it the more inconsistent it will become (hard to imagine, but anyway).
Best not explain it at all and let people draw their own conclusions - though that probably wouldn't please the core demographic who need everything laid out with all the subtlety of a cricket bat.
Adding without explaining just leaves everything in a jumbled mess, and just serves to remind the fanbase that the mythology that they love so very much is complete bullshi*t.
Sci-fi and horror are both so much more enjoyable when people can lose themselves in it. When it becomes
real to them. Unexplained Inconsistencies make that more difficult.
Personally...I absolutely hate the idea of someone actually turned it an egg. The regurgitating thing is better, but not good. Wish they'd found some other way...I mean I don't have any bright ideas but someone else should
Quote from: Internecivus Raptus on Oct 31, 2007, 02:51:21 AM
Personally...I absolutely hate the idea of someone actually turned it an egg. The regurgitating thing is better, but not good. Wish they'd found some other way...I mean I don't have any bright ideas but someone else should
My sentiments exactly.
QuoteAdding without explaining just leaves everything in a jumbled mess, and just serves to remind the fanbase that the mythology that they love so very much is complete bullshi*t.
I have to disagree. There is practically ENDLESS discussion value with aliens and predators because there is so much unexplained.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Oct 31, 2007, 02:35:32 AM
Quote from: Demonio Cazador on Oct 31, 2007, 02:24:02 AM
It's pretty hilarious how people say something sucks when they haven't even seen it!!
I don't see how it's worse than the people praising it without having seen it.
Negativity is always worse! ;)
QuoteI mean I don't have any bright ideas but someone else should
That is what they're paid for after all.
QuoteAdding without explaining just leaves everything in a jumbled mess, and just serves to remind the fanbase that the mythology that they love so very much is complete bullshi*t.
Ah but is it not better to leave the audience guessing that it's complete bullshit, rather than removing all doubt?
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 31, 2007, 02:37:02 AM
called giving it a chance...you should try it some time
I have given many things "a chance" and I do like some of what I've seen. That said, I'll be giving it a full chance when I see the film. Until then I will judge what I see in whatever way I see fit.
Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2007, 02:56:09 AM
QuoteI mean I don't have any bright ideas but someone else should
That is what they're paid for after all.
QuoteAdding without explaining just leaves everything in a jumbled mess, and just serves to remind the fanbase that the mythology that they love so very much is complete bullshi*t.
Ah but is it not better to leave the audience guessing that it's complete bullshit, rather than removing all doubt?
Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2007, 02:56:09 AM
QuoteI mean I don't have any bright ideas but someone else should
That is what they're paid for after all.
QuoteAdding without explaining just leaves everything in a jumbled mess, and just serves to remind the fanbase that the mythology that they love so very much is complete bullshi*t.
Ah but is it not better to leave the audience guessing that it's complete bullshit, rather than removing all doubt?
Yeah and I think they could do better...that's just me.
Either way sucks
whoops f*cked up that quote job... ::)
Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Oct 31, 2007, 02:54:07 AM
QuoteAdding without explaining just leaves everything in a jumbled mess, and just serves to remind the fanbase that the mythology that they love so very much is complete bullshi*t.
I have to disagree. There is practically ENDLESS discussion value with aliens and predators because there is so much unexplained.
But much of the things that are "unexplained" were unexplained on purpose to make them more mysterious. Trying to figure out things like: where they came from, and who the space jockeys are is fun.
...But changing something that
has been thoroughly explained to us simply begs an explanation.
Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2007, 02:56:09 AM
QuoteAdding without explaining just leaves everything in a jumbled mess, and just serves to remind the fanbase that the mythology that they love so very much is complete bullshi*t.
Ah but is it not better to leave the audience guessing that it's complete bullshit, rather than removing all doubt?
I meant that it serves to remind us that everything in the world of Aliens and Predators isn't real... making it harder to really get into ;)
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 31, 2007, 01:19:10 AM
there is no way to win....
Glad to see you realise that. :)
Quotei just wish i could se what would happen with Cameron or Ridley at the helm and how many complaints they get...
If Scott's ideas for a fifth film are anything to go by, I'm not sure we would have been very happy with that, either. It depends how pragmatic Cameron might have been, when they were went to refinine that story.
Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2007, 01:21:26 AM
I'd suggest putting it in your sig - except the Predator Khan thing to too sweet to ditch.
It is, isn't it? :)
And your wish is my...
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 31, 2007, 02:26:24 AM
if your a giant Queen, when people walk in they'll destroy the ship and eggs.
Or, more likely, they'll get immediately swarmed by facehuggers, automatically doing away with that potential human threat
and increasing the Aliens' numbers.
If they even know where to find the Queen, of course.
Quotenow molting if your on the planet can hide long enough to molt and have pletny of hosts, no Queen? molting works alot better.
Except that egg transformation could have
been to get a Queen, meaning it would only need to be a case of one.
OMG 150 pages of BULLS*IT, i mean you never seen so you dont know if it crap or good so wait until you see the movie this topic is a waist to this section, i mean com on 150 pages of disscussion i mean enough is enough :-\
They won't listen. Somebody, probably Gates, SiL, or UncannyAntman, will pop up and say something along the lines of: "Good idea, but no!"
trust me, they've done it so many times when people tell them to quit complaining. My philosophy: Don't bother even posting if you think it's pointless how much space they're wasting here with the same complaints over and over again.
Quote from: Kriszilla on Oct 31, 2007, 07:29:08 PM
They won't listen. Somebody, probably Gates, SiL, or UncannyAntman, will pop up and say something along the lines of: "Good idea, but no!"
trust me, they've done it so many times when people tell them to quit complaining. My philosophy: Don't bother even posting if you think it's pointless how much space they're wasting here with the same complaints over and over again.
yeah, i gues your right ;) :P
100 + votes for love it / pretty cool. :o
That cant be right, is someone fiddling the system or something?
I just find it hard to believe that any strict alien fan would find the new additions acceptable into the fiction.
Well that's you. Other people are willing to accept new ideas.
Quote from: Sh0dan on Oct 31, 2007, 07:45:53 PM
100 + votes for love it / pretty cool. :o
That cant be right, is someone fiddling the system or something?
I just find it hard to believe that any strict alien fan would find the new additions acceptable into the fiction.
That's right, it's FICTION. So I guess it's not life and death after all. If done right, this concept could be creepy and terrifying. It's likely painful and horrific for the victim :o
It's not that they wouldn't accept new ideas to the fiction; it's that they wouldn't accept new ideas which piss all over the old ones.
"Except that egg transformation could have been to get a Queen, meaning it would only need to be a case of one"
Takes longer to get any hosts...we don't know how long it took AR's Queen to go it could have ben a week
"Or, more likely, they'll get immediately swarmed by facehuggers, automatically doing away with that potential human threat and increasing the Aliens' numbers."
Which would be followed by the ship being destroyed...i think they'd notice signal for help in time
unless there was five humans wherever they were going to land then that'd work
Well, when there is this much separation of opinion, it usually means the guys complaining, probably have a very good point. But if you are stuck in defensive mode you are not going to see it, no matter how much complaining they do.
Quote from: AlienatedPredator on Oct 31, 2007, 08:12:19 PM
If done right, this concept could be creepy and terrifying. It's likely painful and horrific for the victim :o
Oh you mean the victim watching the film. Yes I think you are right, it will be a shockingly painful and horrific experience. lol. ;D
Sorry I couldn't resist. ;)
Not always, sometimes the ones who are on the offensive are just being annoying.
Quote from: Sh0dan on Oct 31, 2007, 08:51:34 PM
Well, when there is this much separation of opinion, it usually means the guys complaining, probably have a very good point. But if you are stuck in defensive mode you are not going to see it, no matter how much complaining they do.
Quote from: AlienatedPredator on Oct 31, 2007, 08:12:19 PM
If done right, this concept could be creepy and terrifying. It's likely painful and horrific for the victim :o
Oh you mean the victim watching the film. Yes I think you are right, it will be a shockingly painful and horrific experience. lol. ;D
Whatever . . . if you think it looks like fun I urge you to try it ;) The Alien face-rape I mean.
Sorry I couldn't resist. ;)
So if you had a cake that LOOKED moldy, smelled MOLDY, you'd still eat it because the person who sold it to you said it was awesome and you hadn't ATE IT yet?
hahahaha... No.
The script was already available for perusal and very little of it has changed, right down to one scene being described by a NUMERICAL SCORE of who's "winning." The predalien facerapes people and looks like a diseased Muppet on crack; the aliens look like they're constipated to a lethal level. I haven't seen anything from the cast that says "clip of the week" much less "best supporting actor".
News Flash for those uninitiated into human culture; opinions are formulated by a combination of opinion and gut feeling from the BASIS of SELECTION. From software to cars to jobs to dating/marriage. It's how the machine works, and there gazillions of schools where people learn to become rich based on these very principles... people like Oprah Winfrey make gazillions of dollars by doing just that.
There hasn't been a single thing about this movie aside from the Wolf that makes me want to watch it.
The money shots for this movie are public knowledge. and they suck. That's really all there is to it.
All you have to do is look at the person who owns Fox, and the resumes of the people he has hired and who have come on board since his purchase, look at what his Flagship Netwroks show in the EU Australia and America to see what his philosophy is about.
Here's a hint. It has shit all to do with quality of storytelling.
Then don't watch it and pretend it never happened
Quote from: Kriszilla on Oct 31, 2007, 08:56:23 PM
Not always, sometimes the ones who are on the offensive are just being annoying.
And sometimes the ones who are defensive are just being annoying also, The annoying people cancel each other out. Your still left with a good portion of alien fans, that are unhappy about the changes.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 31, 2007, 09:15:18 PM
Then don't watch it and pretend it never happened
Thanks for the tip, I will take that advice. I also, hope fox takes that advice, and steers the alien franchise back to its roots. Wouldn't hurt for the Predator franchise either.
The Predator is thriving in this film. I wouldn't be surprised if they did another Pred film after this. The Alien franchise is the one dead in the water, and this film doesn't seem to be helping that.
Well All I can say is that the inclusion of the new bullshit reproduction method is why there won't ever be another stand alone movie. All the new ideas they come up with now, blow balls, and are included just for the sake of being different. If no one can come up with new ideas that actually don't break canon, are consistent with the other films and are interesting at the same time, the Alien franchise is dead as a door nail. Instead we'll get as many AVP films as the box office sales dictate. Which is a sad state of affairs.
Quote from: Kriszilla on Oct 31, 2007, 07:29:08 PM
They won't listen. Somebody, probably Gates, SiL, or UncannyAntman, will pop up and say something along the lines of: "Good idea, but no!"
I can't speak for Gates or SiL, but I can't be bothered any more.
The reasons that
some people are annoyed by it are well documented. There's only so many times you can quote precedent only to have it answered with, "I think it rules, so quit bitching, bitches!" before you start to lose interest.
Quote from: Sh0dan on Oct 31, 2007, 07:45:53 PM
100 + votes for love it / pretty cool. :o
That cant be right, is someone fiddling the system or something?
I just find it hard to believe that any strict alien fan would find the new additions acceptable into the fiction.
Good to see you bring your opinions from the gearbox forums to here sh0dan. we need a few more intelligent guys on our side. ;D
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Oct 31, 2007, 08:18:27 PM
"Except that egg transformation could have been to get a Queen, meaning it would only need to be a case of one"
Takes longer to get any hosts...we don't know how long it took AR's Queen to go it could have ben a week
What does time matter? Does the Predator or National Guard know where it is? No. It can't have been long for the colony in '
Aliens', because they would have sent out a transmission about what was going on.
Quote"Or, more likely, they'll get immediately swarmed by facehuggers, automatically doing away with that potential human threat and increasing the Aliens' numbers."
Which would be followed by the ship being destroyed...i think they'd notice signal for help in time
unless there was five humans wherever they were going to land then that'd work
Who said anything about them being on a ship? Why would nature plan for being on a spaceship? Who in their right mind would wander down into that same place, after seeing so many such traps being sprung?
All of this seems to boil down to the Aliens allegedly needing a faster, quicker method to replace the one they've already got. Play the Canon Game in my signature and you'll see why that sort of logic interferes with canon.
If the directors had made no statement about the canon, then this would never matter. They were the ones who kept saying it'll adhere to the rules and it isn't, when these same new ideas are applied to what we saw in the other films.
If the Alien could do this, then the Fury and Nostromo ones would have been implanting like crazy. The fact remains that
neither of them ever did that.
Yes, I like the concept. It fits with the sort of things Aliens do. It could even look great. What it won't do is fit with what we have seen them doing in the other stories.
The directors came up with this idea because they thought Queens 'need' an advance army. They basically came up with a solution to a problem which was never there in the first place. When you do that sort of a thing, you need to start thinking, "OK, so what prevented this character from doing that in Film Number X?"
QuoteThey basically came up with a solution to a problem which was never there in the first place.
Exactement.
Since egg-morphing was referenced so many times in this thread, i thought i'd put up the screencaps of that.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.constantthreat.net%2Fothershit%2FAlien%2Fdallas_eggmorph.jpg&hash=9b44e08586543972b8add642a7935cccd2dbf0a4)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.constantthreat.net%2Fothershit%2FAlien%2Fdallas_eggmorph2.jpg&hash=ceb4a84e5dd89c3931eef1a15d17ffd01654eaf2)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.constantthreat.net%2Fothershit%2FAlien%2Fbrett_eggmorph2.jpg&hash=ea99df881eacac65252565536426f47606e3f197)
It seems as if there is a wound on dallas's neck, so the theory of how egg morphing starts most likely could be the tail thing, and certainly no vomit of any kind.
As well as the lambert tail rape thing, it really is ambigous, but it was not literal rape, but here is a screencap of her bloody foot.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.constantthreat.net%2Fothershit%2FAlien%2Fdead_lambert.jpg&hash=a7a5cf5cfc0f3c0dde64c480001a44a417d7df62)
Some serious brown nosage in this thread...
Really dont like the idea but then again i havnt seen the idea in practice. Heres hopin you Strauses do a good job.We already have one anderson..
Quote from: Spaghetti on Nov 01, 2007, 03:36:46 AM
Good to see you bring your opinions from the gearbox forums to here sh0dan. we need a few more intelligent guys on our side. ;D
Hey Spaghetti, who is that GRID ?
Ha ha, the second part is right, but the first is wronger than the Strause bros' AvP: Requiem. ;D
Quote from: Colin_Strause link=topic=7284.msg127093#msg127093
This must set the record for the longest thread on something no one has actually seen yet. :)
lol :D
Quote from: RoaryUK on Oct 27, 2007, 01:56:02 PMJust one last comment before I sign off.....is the Predalien actually a "hybrid"?? Ok I know what your saying, but think about it ok! If thi is the same creature from the first AVP, then how can it be a hybrid when its actually part of the Aliens own life cycle?? The Queen from ALIEN3 and probably ALIIENS too were born the same way, yet they are not classed as hybrid, and all this despite the fact we all know being hybrid means any kind of cross-breed or something made up from a variety of sources. As far as we know from AvP the Predalien Queen was created via a host like any other alien, only the embryo is different, and pressumably requires the supposed DNA reflex theory to develoip. If this is the case, shoudnt the new creature simply be the "Predalien Queen"?
Maybe queens embryos are more sensible to host's DNA than normal embryos what means that they are taking from the host more traits?
Quote from: Predalien warrior on Nov 01, 2007, 03:39:16 PM
Quote from: Colin_Strause link=topic=7284.msg127093#msg127093
This must set the record for the longest thread on something no one has actually seen yet. :)
lol :D
Yeah, Colin's a broken record... And he is still confusing 'CONCEPT' with 'HOW GOOD IT LOOKS'...like a supermodel...cute, but a vaccum nonetheless...
This has been the best thread for quite a while (we are already having the nonsensical 'this Clip was better than the entire AVP movie'... :o) so instead of Colin dissing the thread, maybe he should be reading it (which I am sure he is...) and realising what are his conceptual mistakes so far...
Who cares to see a Predalien vomiting or using the mouth to do anything else than biting..?
I don't want to see that, because icky does not mean good cinema...
And his editing needs more work... unless that clip was a collage of various ones, which would render some of the scenes more understandable... That 1 minute was boring as hell, between the silly look on Pasquale's face and his comedic outside running... Not one looked scared nor credible enough...
So, shouldn't they pick the better clips to show us instead of the ones just showing what we knew already, that the Aliens will be nothing but easy cannon fodder to the Predator...?
And the ALiens in close up look rubbery like hell...should have increased the dose on the ultra-slime there, Tom... ;D ;)
Maybe the Chet and her reproduction problem came from her mother (another than this from AVP)?
My sugestion is that predators genitically modified alien queen which now is like the queen from A:R but instead additional human DNA there is additional predator DNA. Let we say that predators reproduce in similar way like humans, so yautja females probably have womb which is taken by mutaded queen and after normal alien cycle she gave birth to Chet in the same way Newborn was borned.
Chets reproductive system is than something between egg laying and vivipary, why shouldn't Newborn do something similar if he had matured (of course using something else than mouth to regurgirate because he hadn't inner mouth)?
Quote from: ballzanya on Nov 01, 2007, 06:40:21 AM
of her bloody foot.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.constantthreat.net%2Fothershit%2FAlien%2Fdead_lambert.jpg&hash=a7a5cf5cfc0f3c0dde64c480001a44a417d7df62)
That's a foot...huh...always thougt it was a hand
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 01, 2007, 08:36:04 PM
Quote from: ballzanya on Nov 01, 2007, 06:40:21 AM
of her bloody foot.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.constantthreat.net%2Fothershit%2FAlien%2Fdead_lambert.jpg&hash=a7a5cf5cfc0f3c0dde64c480001a44a417d7df62)
That's a foot...huh...always thougt it was a hand
Yeah, 'cause all hands have an ankle and a heel. ;)
Looks like the Alien impaled her. nice ;D
btw , who is this?Is it Brett?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.constantthreat.net%2Fothershit%2FAlien%2Fbrett_eggmorph2.jpg&hash=ea99df881eacac65252565536426f47606e3f197)
My Tv was always to dark on this scene lol!!
If Chet is a mutant imitating pure predaliens, her children would also been unnormal which means that embryos will have DNA that is mix of xenomorph and yautja DNA and if they will host in humans, the result is a creature that hybrid of alien, human and predator :-\ .
Quote from: Der_Meister on Nov 01, 2007, 08:37:38 PM
Looks like the Alien impaled her. nice ;D
btw , who is this?Is it Brett?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.constantthreat.net%2Fothershit%2FAlien%2Fbrett_eggmorph2.jpg&hash=ea99df881eacac65252565536426f47606e3f197)
Yes, that's Brett.
The way I see it, the only way to save it is to say that the predalien truly is a "hybrid" and was engineered by the predators for some reason. While I feel it is unlikely that this is the case maybe there really IS something to Colin being a little furtive on the subject aside from the fact that he has pissed off a lot of people.
Well one thing thought this idea does make the Alien lifecycle...a cycle
Before: Queen>Egg>Facehugger>Alien....last stop that's called a line
Now: Queen>Egg>Facehugger>Alien>Molt>Queen>Egg (so on and so forth)
Im thinking that new idea of reproduction is so direct and offspring can have genetic diseases so it conflict with that the aliens are a complex organism. But have someone readed the Gibsons alternative script for Alien 3 where aliens where using spores to mutate humans direct to drones!
Major Alan, no offense man... but your posts have been giving me headaches.
Think outside the box....for gods sake i can't be much more clear...but just for migrane boy
Before: Queen lays egg...Egg has Facehugger...Fachugger gets host...Host makes Alien...Then nothing happened (To hard for you?)
Now: Queen lays egg...Egg has Facehugger...Fachugger gets host...Host makes Alien...Alien molts to Queen....Queen lays eggs? (loose you if so the short bus is waiting)
QuoteBut have someone readed the Gibsons alternative script for Alien 3 where aliens where using spores to mutate humans direct to drones!
Yes and it sucked balls.
QuoteThink outside the box....
WAY too late for this after five films that followed the rules.
Rules...set by each of their films...and i was more of saying think about what i said.
It hurts to think about anything you say.
Quote from: SM on Nov 01, 2007, 11:19:31 PM
It hurts to think about anything you say.
Or just to think at all outside The box?
The box ain't broke and I'm all about the box.
If they wanted to have moronic looking aliens barfing moronically into peoples pie holes - fine. Just don't try to tell us it's in anyway related to the Alien films, cos we're not that stupid..
I'm not saying that the Alien films point to it or point away, i'm saying it does make it a neverending life cycle.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 01, 2007, 11:29:29 PM
I'm not saying that the Alien films point to it or point away, i'm saying it does make it a neverending life cycle.
What kind of like, Queen, egg, hugger, burster, adult, egg morph, queen again.
Lol - Another cycle there.
But really, that has 0 to do with why we are pissed off Major.
If someone can just tell me why it was necessary to add this into the life cycle at all ?
I mean, we have had five films where regurgitating aliens don't exist in the fiction, then suddenly, whoa, where'd that come from.
Because I can tell you now, any average Joe movie goer is going to be thinking that exact same thing. Along with, <I don't remember them doing that in any of the previous films>.
I know that's not was making people mad i was just saying that it was a cycle with it more than without.
Yea that's also a cycle one that wasen't used, the point is it can work as part of the cycle when you get passed automatic setting of it can't
My point is that I don't think the director has put himself in the shoes of the audience that will be watching the film. The average guy / gal on the street, that isn't particularly an alien fan, but that goes to watch all the latest films.
Well, these poor clueless people, are going to be completely lost when the pred-queen just starts puking over everyone. And if the question of "why is she doing that?" isn't answered, well the film will be universally slated.
The following are not good answers:-
"Because it's a young pred-alien", isn't good enough.
"Because fans wanted more gore in AvP:R", isn't good enough.
"Because I thought it would be cool", isn't good enough.
"Because I am a big fat Predator fan boy", definitely isn't good enough.
"Because I am a shitty film maker", well that one might just come to pass.
it all just seems like a cool idea had it existed anywhere before, but it seems kinda like a ripp off of the queen from resurection that gave birth to a full grown alien, i could support the idea if it really is a predalien queen? but i don't think it is, as those f**kers are huge beyond all normal queen standards. but if it is a queen alien it could make sense, that instead of creating a face hugger to search for a host the queen can just do it directly, but then why the f**k does a queen never do it. or it could just be something unique to a predalien queen because of the attributes it has taken from a predator, but any explanation thats given just isn't gona make much sense, unless the predalien is in fact a queen. but if thats true WHY IS SHE SOO SMALL. the only thing that would really make sense and not be completely out there is the predators were trying to create a better alien, and things went terribly wrong. but that doesn't blend with their highly ritualistic lifestyle. either way i think this explanation will give me either a laugh, or a loud shouted explative
just remembered an intresting fact, that AVP extinction fans are probably aware of. A praetorian is able to transform itself into a queen if the original queen dies so thats a clear demonstration of the species ability to be highly adaptive to its conditions, so perhaps the predalien has made a likewise evalutionary leap. since their is no praetorian around to assume the role of queen
Bringing anything we have seen in the games opens up a can of worms that I don't think anyone really wants to get into. The films are generally regarded as the holy grail when it comes to accurate information.
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Oct 31, 2007, 09:58:57 PM
The Predator is thriving in this film. I wouldn't be surprised if they did another Pred film after this. The Alien franchise is the one dead in the water, and this film doesn't seem to be helping that.
I think you're right, in so much as the former has a greater chance of getting a sequel after this. It's all about glorifying the Predator and Fox apparently adored the screening.
The Alien is basically being used when the directors think they need to scare some human characters. The Predator/Predalien is the one put on screen for when power and, to quote the interview, "awesomeness" need to be displayed.
I could be wrong, but going on what we've so far seen, that appears to be the visual formula they have been adhering to.
Well come on, if you want action there has to be deaths and ok maybe they could have more predators but i like the elite predator idea because hes superior and a good hunter.
And ever since ALIENS the aliens became more like just creatures rather than indestructible monsters....so don't blame AVPR for making the aliens like that, Cameron basically began that along with comics etc., which I dont mind because the aliens are such a wide spread species with the queen and all the facehuggers so I dont see any problems neccesarily.
QuoteBringing anything we have seen in the games opens up a can of worms that I don't think anyone really wants to get into. The films are generally regarded as the holy grail when it comes to accurate information.
And we've seen what the films are about to serve up.
Anything's fair game now.
Personally I hope we see all those delightfully coloured Aliens - ones the fly, bounce around, shoot lightning out of their heads, people as mobile chestburster factories - from the old Konami Aliens arcade game.
AWESOMENESS INCARNATE!!!!!!
I am pretty skeptical about posting negative thoughts, but this is pretty friggin' ridiculous. Impregnation through oral regurgitation.... yeah..... As if the egg morphing thing wasn't ridiculous itself.
Wouldn't it have been easier to say, I dunno, do something plausible?! Maybe I missed some thing important through my years of being a fan and reading the novels/comics and watching the films, but wth I was always under the impression that the Xenos were pretty scientifically practical.
If some species of amphibians can change their sex to better accommodate the lack of one sex and thus increase procreation, wouldn't it be easy enough to say that Xenos can do it to? Hello, it makes a little more sense to me, then "Hey baby, let me spit in your mouth!"
Better yet, why can't the first Queen be born ambiguous and thus able to impregnate herself as to lay the first generation of face huggers.
Our friend Colin here wants to say this shows the Aliens as complex creatures, but alas it just shows the complete stupidity of those working on the concepts of this show.
It really seems to me that no one, since Resurrection, has ever bothered to a) research any kind of simple science (because human DNA and alien DNA can so mix), b) even TRY to follow any kind of continuity, and c) care about the integrity of the series. It seems to be becoming nothing but some big sci-fi joke. "Let's see how far fetched and unrealistic we can make it and still sell tickets!"
Next time why don't they just cast Johnny Depp as the lead and turn it into a friggin' space drama?! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Bearing in my mind I don't know much about the plot or the pacing or what they want to achieve, but I would've thought it'd be easy enough for the Queen/ PredAlien/ whatever to find a nice quiet warm spot, start a nest, abduct a few people, she lays some eggs, hosts get hugged, presto! Instant Alien army. Like Xenomorphine has said - no need to solve a problem that never even existed in the first place.
Quote from: SM on Nov 02, 2007, 06:11:38 AM
QuoteBringing anything we have seen in the games opens up a can of worms that I don't think anyone really wants to get into. The films are generally regarded as the holy grail when it comes to accurate information.
And we've seen what the films are about to serve up.
Anything's fair game now.
Personally I hope we see all those delightfully coloured Aliens - ones the fly, bounce around, shoot lightning out of their heads, people as mobile chestburster factories - from the old Konami Aliens arcade game.
oooh the giant super facehugger with the psionic ring of facehugger shooting eggs around it. Let's see a Pred survive that.
AWESOMENESS INCARNATE!!!!!!
'ken oath!
Quote from: SM on Nov 02, 2007, 06:24:59 AM
Bearing in my mind I don't know much about the plot or the pacing or what they want to achieve, but I would've thought it'd be easy enough for the Queen/ PredAlien/ whatever to find a nice quiet warm spot, start a nest, abduct a few people, she lays some eggs, hosts get hugged, presto! Instant Alien army. Like Xenomorphine has said - no need to solve a problem that never even existed in the first place.
I agree. I never saw a problem in the first, except the fact that none of the recent writers seem to know what the hell they're talking about. The Xenos are supposed to be intelligent, animalistic in the sense that they know how to survive and are smart in doing so. AVP, and from the gist of this movie, are making them out to be completely retarded. They might as well come from the Yellow Planet of the universe and all wear safety helmets. It's really pathetic the lengths in which modern incompetent writers are going to ruin good films and popular icons!
It's going to happen.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l305/pcpm/avp3.jpg
(I know the quote isn't exact. It's not meant to be).
:D
Ah, the hilarity of watching a favourite movie franchise burning itself into the ground...!
Let's be honest Aliens firing guns IS th next step.
Quote from: PatrinAVP11 on Nov 02, 2007, 05:40:11 AM
Well come on, if you want action there has to be deaths and ok maybe they could have more predators but i like the elite predator idea because hes superior and a good hunter.
Which is fine and all, but so are US Navy SEALs, yet they go into missions in teams. More than one pair of eyes has obvious advantages and each can cover the other.
When you're dealing with something able to reproduce on a viral level, sending in lone warriors is only going to delay the inevitable, not get rid of it.
All of which is why I'm hoping the mission is simply to prevent the technology being retrieved, not hunting aliens. I'd actually prefer it if the Predators didn't give a damn and took the philosophy of a hive-world potentially being a more interesting hunting ground, letting us deal with it.
QuoteAnd ever since ALIENS the aliens became more like just creatures rather than indestructible monsters....so don't blame AVPR for making the aliens like that, Cameron basically began that along with comics etc., which I dont mind because the aliens are such a wide spread species with the queen and all the facehuggers so I dont see any problems neccesarily.
In all honesty, it really depended on the situation.
And none of them ever paralysed themselves on a whim, from what I remember. :)
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 02, 2007, 07:41:00 AM
Let's be honest Aliens firing guns IS th next step.
Don't you remember that filmmakers wanted a Chet using shoulder cannon at first? But they changed decision (which was a good step).
That has got to be a joke.
Quote from: Dusk on Nov 02, 2007, 11:08:39 AM
That has got to be a joke.
Nope he's right...except it wasn't the brothers, it was FOX...if memory serves me right, I believe they wanted the predalien/queen/mutant/abomination to use the cloaking device as well... :-X
I feel so sorry for my beloved francises. Fox ( and hired directors) do your worst...
Aside from the:
Wooden acting
Really bad Predalien design
Poor Alien design
Cheesy teen cast
Stupid location
Piss poor budget
Biased Predator plot
Blatant disregard to canon
And of course the worst part - the deep 8==>:o throat reproductive cycle
Its not that bad ::)
it dosnet have a that bad budget. alien 3 had 5o, avp had about 40-45, avp 2 can have everything below 40 I guess even 30 000 000 dollars is verry good budget
Quote from: SlappyMCnasty on Nov 02, 2007, 12:36:12 PM
it dosnet have a that bad budget. alien 3 had 5o, avp had about 40-45, avp 2 can have everything below 40 I guess even 30 000 000 dollars is verry good budget
But they can use budget for better things than creating something stupid with no connection to other films.
Y'all do realise this is probably how they explain ridged heads vs. smooth heads, right? :-X
They should stop trying to explain stuff. Aren't we better off not knowing anyways.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 02, 2007, 08:08:46 PM
Y'all do realise this is probably how they explain ridged heads vs. smooth heads, right? :-X
Being the products of oral?
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 02, 2007, 09:25:38 PM
Quote from: SiL on Nov 02, 2007, 08:08:46 PM
Y'all do realise this is probably how they explain ridged heads vs. smooth heads, right? :-X
Being the products of oral?
I have bad felling about this, because some aspects maybe true with yours sugestion.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 02, 2007, 08:08:46 PM
Y'all do realise this is probably how they explain ridged heads vs. smooth heads, right? :-X
What do you mean?
Like:
Smooth = facehugger
Ridge = deepthroat?
I hope that's not the case.
There's no way in hell I'm accepting that as a retcon of the events in Aliens.
No damn way.
For me, the AvP universe is completely divorced from the Alien universe.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Nov 03, 2007, 01:35:10 AM
I hope that's not the case.
There's no way in hell I'm accepting that as a retcon of the events in Aliens.
No damn way.
For me, the AvP universe is completely divorced from the Alien universe.
It's starting to become the same for me, and to be honest I don't think the audience would mind if that is indeed the case.
I prefer the idea that:
smooth head=young
ridged head= older
Since the aliens in Alien, alien 3, avp and alien ressurection where under a day old, they had smooth heads.
Yet the ones in Aliens had been there over a day or two (i cant remember how long exactly) they had shed their "cowls" and gotten the ridged head.
Quote from: automirage04 on Nov 03, 2007, 01:20:34 AM
Quote from: SiL on Nov 02, 2007, 08:08:46 PM
Y'all do realise this is probably how they explain ridged heads vs. smooth heads, right? :-X
What do you mean?
Like:
Smooth = facehugger
Ridge = deepthroat?
I always thought the ridged heads vs. smooth heads thing was to do with age....only ALIENS featured the ridged heads and that was supposedly the idea. The obvious problem is how old are the Aliens for Requiem, or are they just starting out and its something to do with their evironment, either way you look at it continuity has gone right out of the window....I fear this film is becoming a real mess.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Nov 03, 2007, 01:35:10 AM
For me, the AvP universe is completely divorced from the Alien universe.
yeah thats pretty much how it should be interpreted
and the difference between ridged/smooth alien heads is simple:
smooth: Alien monster
ridged: cannon fodder
Quote from: Huol on Nov 03, 2007, 01:37:06 AM
I prefer the idea that:
smooth head=young
ridged head= older
Me, too. I asked, early on, about whether some sort of an explannation would be alluded to for them, in the film's story, but received no answer.
I fear that this might just be the reason why.
Had been hoping that the film would simply skip ahead a few days, to the aftermath of the main outbreak (reflecting how it would have taken some time to gather their numbers in secret), but with the recent announcements of the new cycle being specifically to allow an
early method of reproduction, that no longer seems likely.
It doesn't make sense that every single creature in '
Aliens' came from that method. We saw plenty of empty eggs by the colonists.
Some of the AvP Aliens are over 100 years old. Not very pringle-ated either.
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 03, 2007, 05:03:36 AM
Some of the AvP Aliens are over 100 years old. Not very pringle-ated either.
You're referring to the first AvP right....so don't you mean the Alien "Eggs" were over 100 years old? No Alien Warriors were around at the time Weyland and his team entered the Pyramid only the Queen and she was in stasis. That was the whole idea of the hunt, they just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 03, 2007, 02:14:29 AM
Quote from: Huol on Nov 03, 2007, 01:37:06 AM
I prefer the idea that:
smooth head=young
ridged head= older
Me, too. I asked, early on, about whether some sort of an explannation would be alluded to for them, in the film's story, but received no answer.
I fear that this might just be the reason why.
Had been hoping that the film would simply skip ahead a few days, to the aftermath of the main outbreak (reflecting how it would have taken some time to gather their numbers in secret), but with the recent announcements of the new cycle being specifically to allow an early method of reproduction, that no longer seems likely.
It doesn't make sense that every single creature in 'Aliens' came from that method. We saw plenty of empty eggs by the colonists.
Oh they better not go there and try to explain that the only reason they had ridged heads in Aliens was do to that queen doing that reproduction method. As you pointed out, clearly you can see open eggs and dead facehuggers which ultimately produced ridged head aliens that way. So I agree on the age thing, but that does present a problem for avp-r.
But I supposed they just choose the design they liked the best. With that in respect to the ridged head and that only, I do like the Aliens design as opposed to the one from Alien. Otherwise both the designs from the first two movies are good. Nothing has touched them since.
With that in respect to the ridged head and that only, I do like the Aliens design as opposed to the one from Alien. Otherwise both the designs from the first two movies are good. Nothing has touched them since.
I think the Alien3 design is a classic myself, that and the 2 you mentioned, but the runner deserves a mention not just because it was partially designed by Giger, but its also one of the few things ADI actually got right when they changed it. Speaking of changes, the only thing non of the sequels have got right since the original is the Hugger. In fact if anything the designs (except for the Super Face Hugger which should NEVER have been removed) have got steadily WORSE!
They decided to finally screw with the face-hugger this movie, don't you worry :)
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 03, 2007, 05:03:36 AM
Some of the AvP Aliens are over 100 years old. Not very pringle-ated either.
Xhan,
The Alien warriors, eggs and facehuggers (living) are all created, during the time Lex/crew and the Predators enter the pyramid.
The Queen is the ONLY Alien that is over 100 years old, because the Predators freeze her (when there is no need for her) and un-freeze her, so that she can lay the eggs for the "trapped" humans, which are then used as hosts to breed the Aliens the Predators must kill/survive through, in order to complete the "right of passage" ritual.
There are no Alien warriors dormant in that pyramid for all those years and it wouldn't make sense they could survive that long, without any kind of food.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 03, 2007, 05:46:48 AM
They decided to finally screw with the face-hugger this movie, don't you worry :)
what facehuggers. oh wait we get to see two out of plot convenience. As if just for the sake of saying, "we have facehuggers in our movie you can't complain" even though the predalien's reproductive method could have just as easily made those two superflous in the film.
Count the number of Aliens in the avp movie.
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 03, 2007, 05:52:02 AM
Count the number of Aliens in the avp movie.
It's an error on Anderson's behalf. It's like saving Bishop was actually standing in the floor of the Sulaco.
Quote from: ballzanya on Nov 03, 2007, 05:48:22 AM
Quote from: SiL on Nov 03, 2007, 05:46:48 AM
They decided to finally screw with the face-hugger this movie, don't you worry :)
what facehuggers. oh wait we get to see two out of plot convenience. As if just for the sake of saying, "we have facehuggers in our movie you can't complain" even though the predalien's reproductive method could have just as easily made those two superflous in the film.
Don't mean to be rude but what the heck are you on about man?? The Huggers were from the crashed ship, and who says there were only 2?? I'm thinking the Predalien was obviously from the same place but it was either not known about by the Predators or something they created which is unlikely, and in the process of slaughtering them which in turn caused the ship to crash. It gets loose as do the Huggers, the main question for me is how many Predators survive the crash? One at least otherwise Wolf would not have come anyway...I assume.
His point still stands. Even without the facehuggers, the PredAlien that survives from the crash could easily regurgitate a few on it's own.
Neverthelss that means someone is at LEAST 100 years old... and smooth as a baby's butt.
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 03, 2007, 06:07:46 AM
Neverthelss that means someone is at LEAST 100 years old... and smooth as a baby's butt.
And the Queen in
Aliens was actually a Terminator! :o
That would certianly explain why she doesn't breathe and survives getting squished by a powerloader.
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Nov 03, 2007, 06:06:14 AM
His point still stands. Even without the facehuggers, the PredAlien that survives from the crash could easily regurgitate a few on it's own.
I must be missing something here, what is his (Ballnanza) point exactly? Its clear from the production stills and the trailer there are TWO types of Hugger in this movie, the ones from the trailer certainly look like the ones we're more familiar with, but there's a production still of a completely new-looking Hugger about to impregnate some guy (I dont know who), what's unclear is where this Hugger could have come from...certainly not the Predalien. Will someone please explain what did I miss....?
After some thought, I don't think it's a new facehugger type at all. They just screwed around with the overall facehugger design. I initially thought otherwise (that it was a PredAlien queen facehugger), but the reproduction revelation throws that possibility away.
That's where his argument is from- that there is only one type, and that they look different because of a redesign.
"Get away from her, you bitch!"
"Sssssssssss... Get out."
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Nov 03, 2007, 06:30:30 AM
After some thought, I don't think it's a new facehugger type at all. They just screwed around with the overall facehugger design. I initially thought otherwise (that it was a PredAlien queen facehugger), but the reproduction revelation throws that possibility away.
That's where his argument is from- that there is only one type, and that they look different because of a redesign.
I have to say I still think there are 2 types of Hugger, but your right, there is no reasonable explaination for it. Its so much like the Alien 3 Queen Hugger except for the colouring and missing armour plating, and its noticably larger too, something you can see when you compare it with a normal face-hugging. We're definately all missing something, which is good I suppose, so long as they don't make a pigs ear of it lol
Quote from: RoaryUK on Nov 03, 2007, 06:17:59 AM
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Nov 03, 2007, 06:06:14 AM
His point still stands. Even without the facehuggers, the PredAlien that survives from the crash could easily regurgitate a few on it's own.
I must be missing something here, what is his (Ballnanza) point exactly? Its clear from the production stills and the trailer there are TWO types of Hugger in this movie, the ones from the trailer certainly look like the ones we're more familiar with, but there's a production still of a completely new-looking Hugger about to impregnate some guy (I dont know who), what's unclear is where this Hugger could have come from...certainly not the Predalien. Will someone please explain what did I miss....?
The point is that the new reproduction cycle eliminates the need for any facehuggers. The directors/writers could have eliminated showing all facehuggers because of this. However there are two random ones on the ship for who knows what reason. It seems as if they are only in the film for the sake of having them, when they know they will not be any others do to the reproductive bullshit of the predalien.
I like the facehuggers and certainly I won't complain that they're featured, but because of the plot, they do seem redundant, and out of fear of the reaction along the lines of "what? where the f**k were the facehuggers int his film? No eggs and no facehuggers, I thought this was an Avp film?"
Quote from: ballzanya on Nov 03, 2007, 07:14:53 AM
Quote from: RoaryUK on Nov 03, 2007, 06:17:59 AM
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Nov 03, 2007, 06:06:14 AM
His point still stands. Even without the facehuggers, the PredAlien that survives from the crash could easily regurgitate a few on it's own.
I must be missing something here, what is his (Ballnanza) point exactly? Its clear from the production stills and the trailer there are TWO types of Hugger in this movie, the ones from the trailer certainly look like the ones we're more familiar with, but there's a production still of a completely new-looking Hugger about to impregnate some guy (I dont know who), what's unclear is where this Hugger could have come from...certainly not the Predalien. Will someone please explain what did I miss....?
The point is that the new reproduction cycle eliminates the need for any facehuggers. The directors/writers could have eliminated showing all facehuggers because of this. However there are two random ones on the ship for who knows what reason. It seems as if they are only in the film for the sake of having them, when they know they will not be any others do to the reproductive bullshit of the predalien.
I like the facehuggers and certainly I won't complain that they're featured, but because of the plot, they do seem redundant, and out of fear of the reaction along the lines of "what? where the f**k were the facehuggers int his film? No eggs and no facehuggers, I thought this was an Avp film?"
Ok, this is one of many rumours for the opening as far as I've heard it. The predator ship that crashes on Earth is carrying Alien Eggs, at some point it (supposedly) comes across another ship, the one from the last AvP movie that's now adrift in space. Apparently this is how the movie opens, with the crew been slaughtered by the now fully grown Predalien. The ships dock and the Predalien somehow manages to get aboard the other (scout) ship. Enroute to where ever the Predalien then wreakes more havoc aboard this ship causing it to crash on Earth (originally just passing I assume). Correct me if Im wrong, but there you have your original Face Huggers AND the Predalien before its even started coughing up its stuff!!
[Just as a side note, although I strongly believe there are still 2 types of Hugger in this movie, Ive seen nor heard nothing to suggest where this Queen Hugger, which I believe it to be, might come from. And oh yes, before anyone asks, I am aware AvP-R is set in 2007. All I can say is, if the rumour is true, after we see the slaughter of the Predators by the Predalien from AvP (if we see it), then the movie must fast forward to present day when its intercepted running adrift by the Scout Ship 3 years later. Unless of course we dont see the slaughter because its already happened, which to me makes more sense really, but we supposedly do]
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.somethingawful.com%2Fu%2Fruss%2Fgoldmine34%2Fslaughtercles.jpg&hash=251f68703179851e11749126ea491fd9fbee1ec6)
I just seems relevant ;D
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 28, 2007, 01:11:26 AM
Also, one last point... If 'Empire' magazine is correct and not making stuff up, this is taking place in 2007. If this is the same Predalien as last time, what was preventing it from transforming into a Queen, all of this time?
Maybe Chet is a child of the predalien from AVP?
When that is born at the end of AVP, than grows up, some predators have slaughtered and some cooconed to wait when became a queen. When it hapens, facehuggers facehuggerred predators who's in next step have chestburstered next predaliens (one of them is Chet).
Quote from: SiL on Nov 03, 2007, 09:29:05 AM
http://i.somethingawful.com/u/russ/goldmine34/slaughtercles.jpg
I just seems relevant ;D
That game is hilarious.
Quote from: ep40 on Nov 03, 2007, 12:40:29 PM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 28, 2007, 01:11:26 AM
Also, one last point... If 'Empire' magazine is correct and not making stuff up, this is taking place in 2007. If this is the same Predalien as last time, what was preventing it from transforming into a Queen, all of this time?
Maybe Chet is a child of the predalien from AVP?
When that is born at the end of AVP, than grows up, some predators have slaughtered and some cooconed to wait when became a queen. When it hapens, facehuggers facehuggerred predators who's in next step have chestburstered next predaliens (one of them is Chet).
That would be okay but then wouldn't it mean all predaliens are queens and that would suck.
Quote from: justaguy on Nov 03, 2007, 02:40:07 PM
Quote from: ep40 on Nov 03, 2007, 12:40:29 PM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 28, 2007, 01:11:26 AM
Also, one last point... If 'Empire' magazine is correct and not making stuff up, this is taking place in 2007. If this is the same Predalien as last time, what was preventing it from transforming into a Queen, all of this time?
Maybe Chet is a child of the predalien from AVP?
When that is born at the end of AVP, than grows up, some predators have slaughtered and some cooconed to wait when became a queen. When it hapens, facehuggers facehuggerred predators who's in next step have chestburstered next predaliens (one of them is Chet).
That would be okay but then wouldn't it mean all predaliens are queens and that would suck.
no the movie takes place in 2004 as colin has confirmed so you can strike those ideas down.
Quote from: ballzanya on Nov 03, 2007, 06:20:10 PM
no the movie takes place in 2004 as colin has confirmed so you can strike those ideas down.
really? so i guess predalien growing up from cb to adult in several seconds is true as well. f*ck.
Perhaps, though one could argue either way. Considering they seem to have adhered by the scripted cr@ppiness that is the PredAlien, who knows.
This is not normal predalien. It is offspring of AvP queen who was altered by hormons. It means that it can do many shitty things ( like growing up too fast and reproduceing stupidly). But I still have hope that next director of Alien/ AvP film would not copy this to his film.
Quote from: Master on Nov 03, 2007, 10:04:43 PM
This is not normal predalien. It is offspring of AvP queen who was altered by hormons. It means that it can do many shitty things ( like growing up too fast and reproduceing stupidly). But I still have hope that next director of Alien/ AvP film would not copy this to his film.
I don't follow you, The Queen in the first AVP was not altered by hormones ??? She was placed in stasis by the Predators and used for hunts.
Quote from: Darth_Spud on Nov 03, 2007, 10:21:24 PM
Quote from: Master on Nov 03, 2007, 10:04:43 PM
This is not normal predalien. It is offspring of AvP queen who was altered by hormons. It means that it can do many shitty things ( like growing up too fast and reproduceing stupidly). But I still have hope that next director of Alien/ AvP film would not copy this to his film.
I don't follow you, The Queen in the first AVP was not altered by hormones ??? She was placed in stasis by the Predators and used for hunts.
Yes, i think that if queen from was altered than why her children are affected but herself aren't?
I can accept predalien from this film if there will some explamation that it is genetically modified or have a special role in hive. I hope that in next AVP movie (if it will be created) there will be nore stupid things (like next newborn-like creature or suicide aliens which don't regurgirate to hosts, they are hosts themselfs).
Anderson told that LC of huggers/bursters was quicker because queen was hormon pumped and therefore her offspring was somewhat different then normal aliens should be.
Simply: this was his explanation of fu<ked up lifec cycle, and thats why I assume that Predalien from AvP-R can be also different cause queen from AvP was much bigger that the one from A2. This is only logical explanation of regurgitation and queen molting process which is not changeing canon.
It doesn't change canon as it is. regardless of what alterations the previous queen had.
Quote from: Master on Nov 03, 2007, 11:03:17 PM
Anderson told that LC of huggers/bursters was quicker because queen was hormon pumped and therefore her offspring was somewhat different then normal aliens should be.
That's fan hearsay. There's no documented evidence that he ever intended such a thing.
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Nov 04, 2007, 12:38:16 AM
Quote from: Master on Nov 03, 2007, 11:03:17 PM
Anderson told that LC of huggers/bursters was quicker because queen was hormon pumped and therefore her offspring was somewhat different then normal aliens should be.
That's fan hearsay. There's no documented evidence that he ever intended such a thing.
Well, regardless....when film makers screw up its up to the fan base to rationalize their mistakes for them.
Hence, just about explanation that we've come up with the explain the runner's differences from A3. (Namely, the lack of tubes)
And also the head ridges that magically appeared after the first movie.
...and also what we are going to have to do when this alternate lifecycle is implemented with no explanation of how it fits at all.
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Nov 04, 2007, 12:38:16 AM
Quote from: Master on Nov 03, 2007, 11:03:17 PM
Anderson told that LC of huggers/bursters was quicker because queen was hormon pumped and therefore her offspring was somewhat different then normal aliens should be.
That's fan hearsay. There's no documented evidence that he ever intended such a thing.
Paul Anderson in some interview about his supposed "r-rated directors cut" which he intended but never happened, (instead we got the unrated edition, only every so slightly better), mentioned that there were sub-plots with involving the henchman of charles weyland, (the guys with guns who weren't scientists/explorers) as well as the fact that the queen was pumped full of hormones by the predators to speed up the rate in which she produces eggs. Neither of which were explained in any way in the film that was released.
Quote from: ballzanya on Nov 04, 2007, 03:22:11 AM
Paul Anderson in some interview about his supposed "r-rated directors cut" [...] the queen was pumped full of hormones by the predators to speed up the rate in which she produces eggs. Neither of which were explained in any way in the film that was released.
An oft quoted, but
completely fictional interview. He never said it, someone else wrote it and attributed it to him.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Nov 04, 2007, 03:23:59 AM
Quote from: ballzanya on Nov 04, 2007, 03:22:11 AM
Paul Anderson in some interview about his supposed "r-rated directors cut" [...] the queen was pumped full of hormones by the predators to speed up the rate in which she produces eggs. Neither of which were explained in any way in the film that was released.
An oft quoted, but completely fictional interview. He never said it, someone else wrote it and attributed it to him.
really? where is the proof of its inauthenticity?
yeah, that was fake. they said that anderson said Dark Horse had Peter Brigg's script locked in a vault. If that was true then why was it on the internet. Briggs got a good laugh at that. :D
That's just an early draft. There were later ones with a lot changed.
Greater theme... Very much a greater theme... Though the brief analysis of a theme would make... In what an essence? Hundred pages to read is rigidly... *kills itself about a wall* That I have understood the only thing that Predalien will be Queen if me hasn't jammed... ???
The aline had ten minute gestations because they were running out of money and movie. Move along, chop chop.
Nevertheless it is better than nothing. This explanation may prove usefull when next film will be also fu<ked up like the earlier one. It is better to think that PQ from AvP-R is offspring of some unnatural creature and that`s why it can do things abnormal and against canon. You can still have hope that one day we will get AVP where will be normal predalien (simply: bigger drone with mandibles and slightly different shape of skull), normal predalien queen ( simply: bigger queen with mandibles withs slightly different crown who is sitting on her egg sack and produce eggs insted of runing around and [ I heve problems to say it] reproduce by regurgitation), predator who won`t have problems with shutting his mouth, good human characters and setting which is not used because of small budget issues, which fit to both francises.
Quote from: Master on Nov 04, 2007, 08:07:58 AM
It is better to think that PQ from AvP-R is offspring of some unnatural creature and that`s why it can do things abnormal and against canon.
yeah, the only major issue with this is that directors said it's nothing abnormal and every alien queen does that, and it's completely natural thing with aliens, not caused by bulshits like hormones pumping.
they make the canon sadly, not fans imagination :-\
But next director of Alien/AvP film can easily deny this stupid bull shit. Also there is no indicator of useing this method in next films.
awww i was looking forward to having the Predalien shit out embryos..oh oh or they could of introduced Ravagers who carry facehuggers into battle.That would be super fab x10
Quote from: pmor087 on Nov 04, 2007, 03:51:12 PM
awww i was looking forward to having the Predalien shit out embryos..oh oh or they could of introduced Ravagers who carry facehuggers into battle.That would be super fab x10
Those are Carriers but Ravagers would be cool. Imagine like Wolf in the sewer and all of a sudden he ducks as a blade just swings past his head and this big Alien just comes out of the shadows. They'd have to change the color though, light green aliens ftl.
Quote from: Vemados on Nov 04, 2007, 05:08:46 PM
Those are Carriers but Ravagers would be cool. Imagine like Wolf in the sewer and all of a sudden he ducks as a blade just swings past his head and this big Alien just comes out of the shadows.
And then the Aliens' last steps towards fully becoming Tyranids would be complete - hurrah!
We see Colin's evil plan for what it truly is now, oh yes we do... :D
In all honesty i'd prefer a 40k movie over avp-R...
Quote from: Huol on Nov 04, 2007, 05:34:22 PM
In all honesty i'd prefer a 40k movie over avp-R...
I've said before that I quite honestly think the brothers would make fantastic candidates for directing that. I think they have the ideas and visual style for it which would suit that perfectly.
Quote from: Huol on Nov 04, 2007, 05:34:22 PM
In all honesty i'd prefer a 40k movie over avp-R...
What!?! A film with a budget of $40,000!?!
Why?
Asuming you're not joking, they mean the 'Warhammer' series. :)
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 04, 2007, 07:28:38 PM
Asuming you're not joking, they mean the 'Warhammer' series. :)
Oh. That'd be sick actually, like another Lord of the Rings.
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 04, 2007, 07:30:12 PM
Oh. That'd be sick actually, like another Lord of the Rings.
It's the kinda of thing which really could be done in pure CGI. The introduction to '
Dawn Of War' is of genuinely epic proportions.
I'd rather have a Warcraft or Starcraft movie before 40k
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 04, 2007, 07:34:34 PM
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 04, 2007, 07:30:12 PM
Oh. That'd be sick actually, like another Lord of the Rings.
It's the kinda of thing which really could be done in pure CGI. The introduction to 'Dawn Of War' is of genuinely epic proportions.
Dawn of War? They've already done a film? I better see this.
Tell me you are jokeing Aeus.
Quote from: Master on Nov 04, 2007, 08:09:59 PM
Tell me you are jokeing Aeus.
Nah, I don't know much about Warcraft and all that stuff. I'm more of a Lord of the Rings goon.
Dawn of war is Warhammer not Warcraft. And "Lord of the Rings" is great piece of literature, but I prefer " The Witcher".
**BACK ON TOPIC** ;D
Quote from: Darth_Spud on Nov 04, 2007, 09:39:59 PM
**BACK ON TOPIC** ;D
HOLY crud 160 pages...
When we reach 200, post as many gifs of party hats and lolcats as possible.
____________________________________
I like the new idea for reproduction. It proves that there are 2 kinds of queens: Born and made.
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 04, 2007, 07:54:22 PM
Dawn of War? They've already done a film? I better see this.
Best cinematic ever...
Now, all we need is for Predators to start using chainswords and we're part of the way there. :)
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 04, 2007, 09:49:28 PM
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 04, 2007, 07:54:22 PM
Dawn of War? They've already done a film? I better see this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFkFo5SBx-g
Best cinematic ever...
Now, all we need is for Predators to start using chainswords and we're part of the way there. :)
Awesome! That Red guy with the flag is really dishing out some punishment.
One question though. how come this is in the future, when the War Hammer my mate has is all about Centaurs and minotaurs versus demons, orcs, dwarfs, lizard things, and loads of good and bad men?
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 05, 2007, 12:34:19 AM
Awesome! That Red guy with the flag is really dishing out some punishment.
One question though. how come this is in the future, when the War Hammer my mate has is all about Centaurs and minotaurs versus demons, orcs, dwarfs, lizard things, and loads of good and bad men?
There's ordinary '
Warhammer' and then there's '
Warhammer 40,000AD'. I don't know if they're meant to be linked by anything more than the themes, but not being a player of it, myself, the basic difference is that the former is like '
Lord Of The Rings', but far more violent, while the latter is set in the far future and has stuff like Space Marines, Tyranids (based heavily on the Aliens) and so on.
I'm definitely wondering if a chainsword might fit Predators now...
It's been ages since I kept up to date with the backstory of WH/WH40k but I think it's hinted at that the two games are infact linked although that link is kept fairly ambiguous.
The chainsword is an amazingly brutal weapon but I don't know if it would fit a predator since it's very noisy. Seems they like to keep their melee kills as quiet as possible even if they do have very loud and obvious plasma cannons.
About the same sound level as the disc, isn't it? A bit more rough, but I don't think any less people would take notice of it.
Well how loud is a chainsaw? How loud is a chainsaw cutting through meat and bone? That'd give you your answer.
So, that new reproduction method sure does suck a lot of balls, huh?
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Nov 05, 2007, 02:59:16 AM
So, that new reproduction method sure does suck a lot of balls, huh?
yes indeed. (stirs shit up once again, boosting topic several more pages possibly. ;D)
This sums up the idea of the new reproduction method.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.constantthreat.net%2Fothershit%2Fjoke.jpg&hash=f49034e6a929de086d04a950515d4b45ec6cbf59)
SHHH!!!!
Someone'll get ideas and decide to give the PredAlien dialogue!!!
(As if it could get any worse).
It could start listening to Reggae, walking around saying 'Hey mon, you want to smoke the ganja?' as its head is mercifully covered by a cloud of smoke.
"F*cking voodoo magic, mon!"
Quote from: SM on Nov 05, 2007, 04:46:03 AM
SHHH!!!!
Someone'll get ideas and decide to give the PredAlien dialogue!!!
(As if it could get any worse).
well, if the facts concerning the supposed idea of fox to have it use predator technology are indeed true. Talking is not a big step away from that. lol.
Is it all that bad? They wanted to try something new? We have never seen a predalien in the films. its up to the directors to do what they want with this new creature. Granted it cant do that in any of the PC games or in the comics but so far from what we have seen the Bros havent let us down, aside from that shitty acting in the store showdown clip
Quote from: R3GUL8R on Nov 05, 2007, 04:52:18 AM
Is it all that bad? They wanted to try something new? We have never seen a predalien in the films. its up to the directors to do what they want with this new creature. Granted it cant do that in any of the PC games or in the comics but so far from what we have seen the Bros havent let us down, aside from that shitty acting in the store showdown clip
what? Are you arguing that the predalien SHOULD be able to talk? lol.
No X infinity +1.
no. not arguing just giving my opinion on the reproduction method.
"Me wonts to shoot me spunk down your troat, babylon"
Quote from: SM on Nov 05, 2007, 04:56:10 AM
"Me wonts to shoot me spunk down your troat, babylon"
wtf?
And she must have drums to play Reggae music with as she walks, smokes, and barfs down people's throats.
You may joke, but if she can walk with rhythm, it just might work.
It would make an excellent stop-motion video.
This film is steadily confirming its value as unintentionally hilarious comedy gold. :D
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 05, 2007, 05:44:04 AM
This film is steadily confirming its value as unintentionally hilarious comedy gold. :D
It really is. I went from skepticism and some doubts about the film based on originall hearing the setting in a small town and seeing the cast to mild enthusiasm, to full blown enthusiasm after seeing the red band trailer and population trailer then back to reality when i heard about the new reproduction method and saw more of the predalien's design.
Now it seems I may enjoy making fun of the movie if its bad and there's enthusiasm for the film once again. lol.
...Alright. I've tried to be nice about it, but since I just can't say anything nice about this thing as a whole I figured this might as well go into the unofficial PredAlien thread.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sideshowtoy.com%2Fmas_assets%2Fjpg%2F7211_press02-001.jpg&hash=a1af49dd739b1fabfc43eb5c2c5b42d4f29834cc)
What...the sweet, merciful hell...is this? I mean, it literally has not only the mutilated "new" mandibles, it also has mandibles on its tongue? This is the same PredAlien that was going to wash my bias away like Greg said, right?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sideshowtoy.com%2Fmas_assets%2Fjpg%2F7211_press03-001.jpg&hash=bd16e393e38a250503e5e3f9378345637285d2a9)
This is the Giger-esque design we were supposed to be so happy about? This fleshy...? Well, let me not get vulgar.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sideshowtoy.com%2Fmas_assets%2Fjpg%2F7211_press08-001.jpg&hash=b6702456fb84c536b3c8753d959c8d6882d5e2ec)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sideshowtoy.com%2Fmas_assets%2Fjpg%2F7211_press11-001.jpg&hash=1c3b0c3ad5604ca89915e15eef2660e971d24d8c)
But do you at least see what I'm talking about? No one's made a comment on the putrid sag of this thing, the messy placement of the nailed dreadlocks (which I still can't find a reason for being there), whatever the **** is happening at the back of the crown, or the tubes and shoulder design which just seem ramdomly...there...for some reason.
This design makes no sense. At all. This seems more like a studio compromise than a sophisticated creature design. I've tried to be nice about this throughout, but this maquette shows the PredAlien to be, frankly, ridiculous through and through.
That's not right, huh?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sideshowtoy.com%2Fmas_assets%2Fjpg%2F7211_press12-001.jpg&hash=233bb5f379249eb3c49700ed7c18a815dbff8d34)
I SAW IT LOL i said that's not right like i can't bealive they did that
Well, at least one person thinks so...
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Nov 09, 2007, 03:18:50 AM
Well, at least one person thinks so...
I gues that makes it on the big one like that?
If that's Colin's definition of 'biomechanical', I weep for his definition of 'back to the roots'.
If you ask me the toy seems to look alot worse than the pics we have so it might not be as bad with good lighting
I don't think it's so much lighting... I think it'll look better in motion. Except for the scene where it gets the whip that sucked bad...
Again, I've tried to be positive about this. But the more I look at this, the more I feel like...well, it's still not "Newborn" bad, but I'd be lying if I said it was much better.
I hope it's really, really, really dark in this film.
Considering that maquette is made by ADI, yeah, that's what it looks like.
Well, no; the one in the film looks fleshier and less like hard cheap plastic around the mouth. But still.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 09, 2007, 03:22:02 AM
If that's Colin's definition of 'biomechanical', I weep for his definition of 'back to the roots'.
Been thinking the same thing. This thing is not biomech.
It's,
at best, around Alien 3 level. In fact, the stomach/pelvic/upper thighs area reminds me of the Fury Alien quite a bit.
That's about it though.
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Nov 09, 2007, 03:09:06 AM
What...the sweet, merciful hell...is this? I mean, it literally has not only the mutilated "new" mandibles, it also has mandibles on its tongue?
That's actually a good thing, because the Predalien chestburster had that.
Unfortunately, while they've remembered to include attention to details like those, the actual arangement of mandibles was better done on the chestburster than the adult variation.
I would have taken their forgetting of something like that and the retaining of the AVP mandibles than the tradeoff we got. At least the focus on the tongue of the chestburster was so fleeting it didn't really matter.
And come on...for all the arguments that can (and have been) made regarding a PredAlien having mandibles, who in their right mind thinks that it makes sense for the tongue to have them as well?
That's just asinine.
I actually really enjoy the Predalien. It has grown on me. I understand all the complaints. It is, after all, far too fleshy. There isn't much of an exoskeleton there.
However, I still really dig the design. The dreads no longer bother me, and I think they feet are great. I also like that they brought back the skull design.
I am surprised at how much I DON'T hate the predalien. At least the new shots show the crown on the head. Before I assumed that it was just a round alien head like any other alien with dreads coming off the sides.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Nov 09, 2007, 04:17:27 AM
And come on...for all the arguments that can (and have been) made regarding a PredAlien having mandibles, who in their right mind thinks that it makes sense for the tongue to have them as well?
That's just asinine.
No more asinine than a tongue having teeth in the first place.
QuoteAnd come on...for all the arguments that can (and have been) made regarding a PredAlien having mandibles, who in their right mind thinks that it makes sense for the tongue to have them as well?
I actually wrote a comic we were going to do over at AXP that never happened (yes, I'm looking at YOU, SiL), and the Alien in it didn't have the outer mandibles, but just the inner one as a surprise 'money shot'.
Of course this idea has now been stolen.
Thanks to SiL.
*Zoidberg-esque cry of woe*
It's true! I killed your idea!
Quote from: SM on Nov 09, 2007, 04:22:20 AM
...the Alien in it didn't have the outer mandibles, but just the inner one as a surprise 'money shot'.
At least it was a 'one or the other' type dealie. Doing both is overkill. But then, I guess that's the name o' the game when it comes to the AvP universe.
And wouldn't the mandibles tear right off if a headbite takes place? Suckers'd be pretty small 'n flimsy.
Naw, they be made outta diamonds. Diamonds I tell ye!
(In the story the Alien didn't get a chance to use them properly so I dunno. You make an intersting observation nonetheless.)
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Nov 09, 2007, 04:20:01 AM
No more asinine than a tongue having teeth in the first place.
How the hell is a second set of mandibles essential to the Alien's biological assimilation of Predator traits? Any predatory purpose for merging the Pred mandibles is responded to with the outer set. The tongue would be powerful enough to tear into any amount of given flesh. Then how is it essential to the Alien?
It's not, and just comes off as a pretentious attempt to add detail.
Quote from: SM on Nov 09, 2007, 04:34:17 AM
Naw, they be made outta diamonds. Diamonds I tell ye!
Maybe the mech in the Alien's biomech is adamantium? I could go for that. :)
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Nov 09, 2007, 04:38:01 AM
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Nov 09, 2007, 04:20:01 AM
No more asinine than a tongue having teeth in the first place.
How the hell is a second set of mandibles essential to the Alien's biological assimilation of Predator traits? Any predatory purpose for merging the Pred mandibles is responded to with the outer set. The tongue would be powerful enough to tear into any amount of given flesh. Then how is it essential to the Alien?
It's not, and just comes off as a pretentious attempt to add detail.
Well, we haven't seen an alien come out of anything that HAD mandibles in the first place. Humans and dogs have pretty similar jaw structure if you're going to consider an entire universe of lifeforms. Not to mention, have we ever seen an predator tongue? I was under the impression they didn't have them which would make it a moot point anyway, wouldn't it?
If anything this idea proves that the movie makers aren't really terrible concerned with how much the alien looks like its host and how much it looks like an alien. I liked to believe that there really isn't a default look to the allien. The way I liked to look at it, the only alien that isn't tainted with the attributes of its host is the facehugger. Apparently that's now impossible for me to believe since an alien coming out of a predator still has a tail, the same teeth, and a tongue, all of which I previously attributed to aliens coming out of terrestrial hosts.
My biggest beef with any alien in Hollywood is that they are always pretty much a human. Predator? A ripped dude with a scary head. Seriously, what are the odds of an alien life form looking ANYthing like a human, let alone having eyes and ten fingers and toes? I liked the way xenomorphs handled it because they had an EXCUSE to look human in that they take on host traits.
Ah well. I guess I have to deal with the fact that even xenomorphs are still gonna be just guys in suits all over the universe.
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Nov 09, 2007, 04:46:20 AM
If anything this idea proves that the movie makers aren't really terrible concerned with how much the alien looks like its host and how much it looks like an alien.
:D No shit!
QuoteApparently that's now impossible for me to believe since an alien coming out of a predator still has a tail, the same teeth, and a tongue, all of which I previously attributed to aliens coming out of terrestrial hosts.
Humans have tails?
Apparently.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Nov 09, 2007, 04:48:50 AM
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Nov 09, 2007, 04:46:20 AM
If anything this idea proves that the movie makers aren't really terrible concerned with how much the alien looks like its host and how much it looks like an alien.
:D No shit!
QuoteApparently that's now impossible for me to believe since an alien coming out of a predator still has a tail, the same teeth, and a tongue, all of which I previously attributed to aliens coming out of terrestrial hosts.
Humans have tails?
I knew you would mention that but I hoped you would understand that since humans have vestigal tails and the idea is pretty much programmed into mostly all mammals on a genetic level, it makes sense that the alien would take that idea and run with it. Host has some genetic traits for an extra limb? Sure, why not! We're just primates, after all, and on a really small level, living things on earth aren't really much different from one another.
Humans also don't have six fingers, but why not add one if the genes are there? Believe it or not, bring born with six fingers is actually a dominant trait (although I can't remember why it is that it doesn't happen more often). It might add this in an attempt to capitalize on what is already a very useful tool for human beings (our hands) or it might just be a fluke. Even nature isn't perfect, and who knows how an alien would "interpret" our traits.
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Nov 09, 2007, 04:53:27 AM
I knew you would mention that but I hoped you would understand that since humans have vestigal tails and the idea is pretty much programmed into mostly all mammals on a genetic level
So a human-born Alien can have a tail, but a Predator-born one can't? Why can't they have a recessive gene for a tail too?
Oh, and by-the-by, very few humans have vestigial tails. Just a handful of freaks. :)
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Nov 09, 2007, 03:30:48 AM
Again, I've tried to be positive about this. But the more I look at this, the more I feel like...well, it's still not "Newborn" bad, but I'd be lying if I said it was much better.
I hope it's really, really, really dark in this film.
It looks better, and I'm sure move's better than the xeno in "Alien". The predalien looks bad ass. The only other times the alien's looked as cool were in "Aliens", the non CG in Alien 3, and the CG moments in Alien-R, and the Newborn should never have BEEN born.
Quote from: Wolf Sazen on Nov 09, 2007, 04:57:13 AM
The only other times the alien's looked as cool [...] the non CG in Alien 3
So every shot except for its dome cracking? ;)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sideshowtoy.com%2Fmas_assets%2Fjpg%2F7211_press12-001.jpg&hash=233bb5f379249eb3c49700ed7c18a815dbff8d34)
Its like they really wanted your attention that they put the skull under the dome to be "back to the roots"
yet everything else looks total shit.
Yeah this is worse then the newborn in my eyes. At least the newborn was creepy-looking. I just wanna smack this thing in the face for sucking at being an alien.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Nov 09, 2007, 04:56:36 AM
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Nov 09, 2007, 04:53:27 AM
I knew you would mention that but I hoped you would understand that since humans have vestigal tails and the idea is pretty much programmed into mostly all mammals on a genetic level
So a human-born Alien can have a tail, but a Predator-born one can't? Why can't they have a recessive gene for a tail too?
Oh, and by-the-by, very few humans have vestigal tails. Just a handful of freaks. :)
All humans have vestigial tails, my friend. It's your tail bone. Vestigial means it's leftover... the physical remnant of a feature we don't need anymore. Boas and pythons, for example, have vestigial legs in the form of a few small bones where their pelvis would have been, and barbed claws that aren't good for anything anymore. Whales and dolphins have vestigial finger bones in their flippers.
As far as predators having traits for vestigial tails, I guess it's plausible, but unlikely since having a tail at all is an Earth thing.
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Nov 09, 2007, 04:53:27 AM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Nov 09, 2007, 04:48:50 AM
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Nov 09, 2007, 04:46:20 AM
If anything this idea proves that the movie makers aren't really terrible concerned with how much the alien looks like its host and how much it looks like an alien.
:D No shit!
QuoteApparently that's now impossible for me to believe since an alien coming out of a predator still has a tail, the same teeth, and a tongue, all of which I previously attributed to aliens coming out of terrestrial hosts.
Humans have tails?
I knew you would mention that but I hoped you would understand that since humans have vestigal tails and the idea is pretty much programmed into mostly all mammals on a genetic level, it makes sense that the alien would take that idea and run with it. Host has some genetic traits for an extra limb? Sure, why not! We're just primates, after all, and on a really small level, living things on earth aren't really much different from one another.
Humans also don't have six fingers, but why not add one if the genes are there? Believe it or not, bring born with six fingers is actually a dominant trait (although I can't remember why it is that it doesn't happen more often). It might add this in an attempt to capitalize on what is already a very useful tool for human beings (our hands) or it might just be a fluke. Even nature isn't perfect, and who knows how an alien would "interpret" our traits.
Dude, are you a scientist or somethin? It's just a movie with a fictional history attached to it. I don't ever want to see an alien without a tail.
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Nov 09, 2007, 04:38:01 AM
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Nov 09, 2007, 04:20:01 AM
No more asinine than a tongue having teeth in the first place.
How the hell is a second set of mandibles essential to the Alien's biological assimilation of Predator traits? Any predatory purpose for merging the Pred mandibles is responded to with the outer set. The tongue would be powerful enough to tear into any amount of given flesh. Then how is it essential to the Alien?
It's not, and just comes off as a pretentious attempt to add detail.
Well the inner mouth in the other movies? Basically look like people moths with fangs, so why wouldnt the inner mouth take the traits of a predators mouth? Or maybe I'm just crazy...... :-\
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Nov 09, 2007, 04:58:35 AM
Quote from: Wolf Sazen on Nov 09, 2007, 04:57:13 AM
The only other times the alien's looked as cool [...] the non CG in Alien 3
So every shot except for its dome cracking? ;)
Elaborate, because from what I saw, there was a mix of CGI and regular takes with the guy in costume in "Alien 3"
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Nov 09, 2007, 05:01:13 AM
All humans have vestigal tails, my friend. It's your tail bone.
Yeah, fair cop. By the true meaning of the word, I dunced out on that one. :o
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Nov 09, 2007, 05:01:13 AM
As far as predators having traits for vestigal tails, I guess it's plausible, but unlikely since having a tail at all is an Earth thing.
Like fingers? Or toes? Or any other number of attributes? What makes them an "Earth thing"?
Quote from: Wolf Sazen on Nov 09, 2007, 05:06:39 AM
Elaborate, because from what I saw, there was a mix of CGI and regular takes with the guy in costume in "Alien 3"
What you're calling CG was actually a rod-puppet composited into the shots.
Quote from: Wolf Sazen on Nov 09, 2007, 05:03:35 AM
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Nov 09, 2007, 04:53:27 AM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Nov 09, 2007, 04:48:50 AM
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Nov 09, 2007, 04:46:20 AM
If anything this idea proves that the movie makers aren't really terrible concerned with how much the alien looks like its host and how much it looks like an alien.
:D No shit!
QuoteApparently that's now impossible for me to believe since an alien coming out of a predator still has a tail, the same teeth, and a tongue, all of which I previously attributed to aliens coming out of terrestrial hosts.
Humans have tails?
I knew you would mention that but I hoped you would understand that since humans have vestigal tails and the idea is pretty much programmed into mostly all mammals on a genetic level, it makes sense that the alien would take that idea and run with it. Host has some genetic traits for an extra limb? Sure, why not! We're just primates, after all, and on a really small level, living things on earth aren't really much different from one another.
Humans also don't have six fingers, but why not add one if the genes are there? Believe it or not, bring born with six fingers is actually a dominant trait (although I can't remember why it is that it doesn't happen more often). It might add this in an attempt to capitalize on what is already a very useful tool for human beings (our hands) or it might just be a fluke. Even nature isn't perfect, and who knows how an alien would "interpret" our traits.
Dude, are you a scientist or somethin? It's just a movie with a fictional history attached to it. I don't ever want to see an alien without a tail.
I wouldn't want to either. However, like I said, I liked the EXCUSE the aliens had for looking so human-like while still being aliens. I could justify it to myself. While the predator has no excuse for looking as human as it does aside from the fact that it was made before CGI and all that jazz, the alien takes on traits of its host and its therefore okay with me that it has hands, fingers, etc.
I know it's fiction, don't worry. If there is anything I really dislike it is fanboys acting as if this stuff is real. If you've been reading my posts elsewhere you'de know that. I was simply elaborating on why I am not usually a fan of man-in-suit creature design and the idea got off in a different direction.
(That being said, I mean the predator no harm. When it comes to creature design he is still up in my top 5 in spite of the fact that it's a bit too human for me)
I think that on this forum people tend to have a tone that lends itself to arguments. None of my comments here have been inflammatory or mean-spirited. Replies tend to come off confrontational for some reason.
Uncanny Antman: Toes and fingers, eyes, etc, are all just as much "Earth things" as tails are. I enjoy the predator very much but when you consider that he is from another planet he is still very human-like. I can't help but feel that if we were to encounter a real alien it wouldn't at all resemble anything we have ever seen on earth. When you look at a frog, visually, it's basically a little man. Fingers, legs, toes, arms, etc... humans and frogs aren't closely related and yet look similar in a lot of very basic ways because we evolved here on earth. We've got a common ancestor somewhere back there. An alien lifeform would not have anything in common with us at all... suffice to say it would take a pretty incredible coincidence and impossibly good luck for life to evolve on another planet in a similar way that it did here. It's really hard to imagine what an alien lifeform would look like because we usually end up making them look like things we have already seen on earth.
It's an interesting thing to think about.
We don't have tails - Not even vestigial ones. We have a tail bone, but it's not really a bone as part of a tail, and at any rate for the Predator to walk upright and have the same build as a human, it'd need one, too.
The tailbone is usually thought of as the remnant of a vestigial tail. There are theories that say otherwise, usually perpetuated by religious people or those that believe in intelligent design, not that there is a difference. While the coccyx has other functions aside from being "leftover tail" it is generally accepted that it is a remnant, last I checked.
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Nov 09, 2007, 05:24:09 AM
Uncanny Antman: Toes and fingers, eyes, etc, are all just as much "Earth things" as tails are. I enjoy the predator very much but when you consider that he is from another planet he is still very human-like.
We were talking about host traits, but now we've switched to Predators being too human? Y'lost me for a sec' but I'm back on track now. :)
So, if I'm hearing you right, you would rather a film alien have no attributes of Earthly origin?
So no teeth, eyes, fingers, claws, pincers, legs, feet, hands, tentacles, fur, fins, ears, gills, tongue, tail...the list goes on and on. Isn't it easier to approach it from the viewpoint that a world that gives rise to intelligent life is likely to have followed a vaguely similar evolutionary track? We develop these traits for a reason, so why wouldn't other lifeforms?
I'm fine with the inner mouth having mandibles. It's not as if our tongues have a mouth. :) It's just the Alien copying the outer set of jaws for the inner. I don't mind, either way, honestly. I can rationalise it like that, in any case.
Now, if we're talking about the whole slew of
other features on the Predalien... :)
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Nov 09, 2007, 05:33:05 AM
The tailbone is usually thought of as the remnant of a vestigial tail. There are theories that say otherwise, usually perpetuated by religious people or those that believe in intelligent design, not that there is a difference. While the coccyx has other functions aside from being "leftover tail" it is generally accepted that it is a remnant, last I checked.
Yeah, we've basically got it programmed into our DNA. There are actually people who seem to have these obselete genetic commands 'activated' and they're literally born with little tails, able to move and everything.
That always made sense for why the human Aliens had skeletal tails, whiile the canine ones had armoured and much more developed ones, reflecting the degree of information present in the template.
The Predalien would foul that particular theory up, however.
If it was canon. :)
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Nov 09, 2007, 05:37:58 AM
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Nov 09, 2007, 05:24:09 AM
Uncanny Antman: Toes and fingers, eyes, etc, are all just as much "Earth things" as tails are. I enjoy the predator very much but when you consider that he is from another planet he is still very human-like.
We were talking about host traits, but now we've swithced to Predators being too human? Y'lost me for a sec' but I'm back on track now. :)
So, if I'm hearing you right, you would rather a film alien have no attributes of Earthly origin?
So no teeth, eyes, fingers, claws, pincers, legs, feet, hands, tentacles, fur, fins, ears, gills, tongue, tail...the list goes on and on. Isn't it easier to approach it from the viewpoint that a world that gives rise to intelligent life is likely to have followed a vaguely similar evolutionary track? We develop these traits for a reason, so why wouldn't other lifeforms?
Sorry if I got off track a little. I was sort of talking about two things at once.
Anyway, I agree that it's easier to approach a movie alien idea with that mindset and I really don't have any solution for it nor can I offer any alternative. Hell, if we can't picture what an alien lifeform would really look like then we certainly can't sculpt one and bring it to life on film, can we? I don't have an outspoken dislike for guys in suits in that I won't see or enjoy movies where that is the case, but aliens looking like humans has been done an awful lot. Star Trek is a good example of that. Spock is an "alien" because he has different eyebrows? Come on.
I suppose my idea is a lot more interesting to think about than to actually see on film. An alien with no earth traits would be pretty hard to relate to. It might be hard to have any kind of visceral or emotional response to some kind of alien lifeform that is just a floating ball of light, for example.
As far as intelligent life taking a similar evolutionary path on other planets, I don't think that's necessary. For an alien like a predator to come about then that would have had to have been the case, but in reality how can we measure an alien's "intelligence" when all we have to compare it to is our own notions of what we, as Earth things, see as intelligent? Dogs are intelligent because they can respond to commands. Humans can use computers, etc. We have teeth and lungs and all of that in common, but there is nothing that really implies that life elsewhere would have anything similar. Would an alien even "eat" the way we think of eating? Who knows? Anything is possible considering all that we don't know about the universe and its size.
I think this conversation might be getting a little too out there for online discussion, or at the very least for this particular thread, haha!
Xenomorphine: I think you and I are thinking along the same lines, at least in this case.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 09, 2007, 05:26:39 AM
We don't have tails - Not even vestigial ones. We have a tail bone, but it's not really a bone as part of a tail, and at any rate for the Predator to walk upright and have the same build as a human, it'd need one, too.
uh..i don't want to imply that im siding with the person your arguing with..but on a side note..the tailbone is a vestigial remnant of a tail. It wouldn't be there if it was not leftover in our genes from millions of years of evolution. The appendix is vestigial too. This isn't f**king kansas,as intelligent people all know that evolution is a known scientific fact. I hope you are not going to argue otherwise.
But if the argument that you are arguing against is that predators have had tails in the past or whatever they evolved from did, as if an attempt to explain the difference of the predalien tail or why aliens have tails that came from a human, I think it has nothing to do with that. The tail of the alien is a feature derived from whatever they evolved from on their homeplanet. In the event of them actually being created by the space jockey race(which is speculation and not universally agreed consensus among alien fans or solidified as canon via the films), then the tail is a feature that the alien was given to make it more deadly.
The great thing about this stuff is that there really ARE no right answers. As long as we can all agree to disagree at some point it's a lot of fun to speculate and debate this nerdy sci-fi stuff as long as its done with intelligence and respect for other opinions.
And on that note I'm going to bed.
Vestigial remnant from tail =/= vestigial tail.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 09, 2007, 06:26:03 AM
Vestigial remnant from tail =/= vestigial tail.
well sometimes people are actually born with the full tail that the tailbone is the remnant of, so clearly the gene is there but dormant unless such an a genetic anomaly occurs. The tailbone is only in human beings because of the more monkey like creatures the ape-like ones we evolved from had tails and the trait was passed on, although it became dormant and "switched off".
Just like snakes have the "hip bones" where the legs of the lizard like creatures they evolved from once were, the tailbone is a vestigial structure in human beings.
To read about vestigial structures:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_vestigiality
QuoteThe tailbone is only in human beings because of the more monkey like creatures the ape-like ones we evolved from had tails and the trait was passed on, although it became dormant and "switched off".
We did not evolved from monkeys! We have common ancestor with them.
Quotewell sometimes people are actually born with the full tail that the tailbone is the remnant of, so clearly the gene is there but dormant unless such an a genetic anomaly occurs.
I is called atavism.
About predalien: I really hate that it have human teeth ( cause IMHO he should have predator ones). Also secondary jaws are quite odd idea cause Predators have no tongue. Still if it must have inner jaws then why they have to have teeth? Another pair of mandilbles would do just fine to me.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 09, 2007, 05:45:54 AM
The Predalien would foul that particular theory up, however.
If it was canon. :)
It is...
Quote from: Master on Nov 09, 2007, 11:17:22 AM
QuoteThe tailbone is only in human beings because of the more monkey like creatures the ape-like ones we evolved from had tails and the trait was passed on, although it became dormant and "switched off".
We did not evolved from monkeys! We have common ancestor with them.
Quotewell sometimes people are actually born with the full tail that the tailbone is the remnant of, so clearly the gene is there but dormant unless such an a genetic anomaly occurs.
I is called atavism.
About predalien: I really hate that it have human teeth ( cause IMHO he should have predator ones). Also secondary jaws are quite odd idea cause Predators have no tongue. Still if it must have inner jaws then why they have to have teeth? Another pair of mandilbles would do just fine to me.
I never said we evolved from monkeys, only that the common ancestor we evolved from did. At one point on the planet's history the most complex mammal was a monkey like creature, if you trace it back it was a mouse or shrew-like one.
You can argue prenatal avatism all you want, but the fact remains that the tailbone is a vestigial remnant of our evolutionary history on this planet.
Sorry, I missunderstood you. And I`m talking about postnatal atavisms 8)
What I want to know is if this thing is considered a drone or queen? I keep hearing conflicting views on whether or not it's either of the two.
Guess we'll just have to wait for the movie to be sure. :)
No, I'm saying that's his definition of going to back to the roots.
I like some aspects of it, but think it contradicts too much.
How are we for sure that tje predalien jumps on a person and pukes in there mouth, I think it will use a tubullar implanting organ thing simular to the one that a facehugger has. If thats the case, man thats actually torture, or horror when you think about it. A ill person on a bad, then wam, a pred alien jumps on you holds you down, clamps it's mandibites on your face, as you try to move then forcing its tube thing down your throat gaging. .
Here is what I see when I think of the new reproduction method:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.constantthreat.net%2Fothershit%2Fvomit.jpg&hash=33e1814c39ea3cbfbd8577f6369a55f4ffa56904)
;D
But how do you know it vomits. Heres the mental image I think if it infact vomits. I expect it to shoot from a long distance like a super soaker. Which would be retarted.
The Wolf's expression is priceless, but I imagine it more as pasty vomit with a Queen-in-a-sac like Resurrection seen briefly. She sort of looks like she's barfing Pred blood there (which would make about as much sense as the rest of this creature, to be fair).
Seeing as they have an "after shot" that looks straight out of pr0n... I'd say distance has nothing to do with it. The strause brothers never mentioned "sniper-rape", just plain old rape.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 10, 2007, 05:46:51 AM
Here is what I see when I think of the new reproduction method:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.constantthreat.net%2Fothershit%2Fvomit.jpg&hash=33e1814c39ea3cbfbd8577f6369a55f4ffa56904)
;D
A ha ha ha ha ha my man i will laugh 1 whole week on that picture!
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Quote from: Dutch Schaefer on Nov 10, 2007, 08:15:59 PM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 10, 2007, 05:46:51 AM
Here is what I see when I think of the new reproduction method:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.constantthreat.net%2Fothershit%2Fvomit.jpg&hash=33e1814c39ea3cbfbd8577f6369a55f4ffa56904)
;D
A ha ha ha ha ha my man i will laugh 1 whole week on that picture!
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
LOL that is some pretty funny shit
How the hell am I supposed to take this reproductive method seriously? It is totally illogical and doesn't fit with prior Alien reproductive methods. Their internal digestive organs would have to be tied into the internal reproductive organs. That is a very complex thing for an organism to make work. ::)
Quote from: Flaming Firefox on Nov 10, 2007, 09:52:41 PM
How the hell am I supposed to take this reproductive method seriously? It is totally illogical and doesn't fit with prior Alien reproductive methods. Their internal digestive organs would have to be tied into the internal reproductive organs. That is a very complex thing for an organism to make work. ::)
Good thing we know all about an alien organism and what's possible and impossible about it ::)
Well we know enough about their reproductive ways from 5 movies. 2 of which had queens that had egg sacks and one that gave live birth because of DNA splicing, nothing to suggest being able to do what Chet is doing. Unless it is something taken from the Predator DNA...
Quote from: Flaming Firefox on Nov 10, 2007, 09:52:41 PM
How the hell am I supposed to take this reproductive method seriously? It is totally illogical and doesn't fit with prior Alien reproductive methods. Their internal digestive organs would have to be tied into the internal reproductive organs. That is a very complex thing for an organism to make work. ::)
I thought about exactly thesame.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=8176.45
Last post at the bottom of the page.
Nothing said they shouldn't or couldn't do this it says they are adaptable, i call this adatpable...
now it couldn't hurt to make the creatures scairer and more dangerours if its the same old thing again and again it won't make much money...not saying they should destroy everything but they are just bending it a little
Quote from: Master on Nov 10, 2007, 09:57:45 PM
Quote from: Flaming Firefox on Nov 10, 2007, 09:52:41 PM
How the hell am I supposed to take this reproductive method seriously? It is totally illogical and doesn't fit with prior Alien reproductive methods. Their internal digestive organs would have to be tied into the internal reproductive organs. That is a very complex thing for an organism to make work. ::)
I thought about exactly thesame.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=8176.45
Last post at the bottom of the page.
Thanks for the backup man! :)
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 10, 2007, 10:00:08 PM
Nothing said they shouldn't or couldn't do this it says they are adaptable, i call this adatpable...
now it couldn't hurt to make the creatures scairer and more dangerours if its the same old thing again and again it won't make much money...not saying they should destroy everything but they are just bending it a little
Bending it??? Bending it would be altering the egg, the facehugger or the chestburster. This isn't bending it, it is a major break with the Alien storyline. It isn't adaptation we're talking about here, it would be an evolutionary leap to change a creature's reproductive system that much, not believable even for Alien. If they evolve that much then the creature they were back in the Mayan days wouldn't look anything like the creature that they show us in Alien and Aliens.
Quote from: Flaming Firefox on Nov 10, 2007, 09:52:41 PM
How the hell am I supposed to take this reproductive method seriously? It is totally illogical and doesn't fit with prior Alien reproductive methods. Their internal digestive organs would have to be tied into the internal reproductive organs. That is a very complex thing for an organism to make work. ::)
You guys kill me, acting like you know what your talking about scientifically. Give it a rest man. Watch the movie, I bet you like it.
They been around a long long time....its possible for them over that time to devolp mutliple ways to reproduce,
Quote from: Flaming Firefox on Nov 10, 2007, 10:05:37 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 10, 2007, 10:00:08 PM
Nothing said they shouldn't or couldn't do this it says they are adaptable, i call this adatpable...
now it couldn't hurt to make the creatures scairer and more dangerours if its the same old thing again and again it won't make much money...not saying they should destroy everything but they are just bending it a little
Bending it??? Bending it would be altering the egg, the facehugger or the chestburster. This isn't bending it, it is a major break with the Alien storyline. It isn't adaptation we're talking about here, it would be an evolutionary leap to change a creature's reproductive system that much, not believable even for Alien. If they evolve that much then the creature they were back in the Mayan days wouldn't look anything like the creature that they show us in Alien and Aliens.
Why couldn't the alien have alway's been able to do this, and we just had not seen this in the film or literature. Maybe it's a back-up reproduction method for a queen who is not fully grown and has no drones or warrior's to protect her nest initially. It's gonna be great.
Quote from: Wolf Sazen on Nov 10, 2007, 10:15:18 PM
Quote from: Flaming Firefox on Nov 10, 2007, 10:05:37 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 10, 2007, 10:00:08 PM
Nothing said they shouldn't or couldn't do this it says they are adaptable, i call this adatpable...
now it couldn't hurt to make the creatures scairer and more dangerours if its the same old thing again and again it won't make much money...not saying they should destroy everything but they are just bending it a little
Bending it??? Bending it would be altering the egg, the facehugger or the chestburster. This isn't bending it, it is a major break with the Alien storyline. It isn't adaptation we're talking about here, it would be an evolutionary leap to change a creature's reproductive system that much, not believable even for Alien. If they evolve that much then the creature they were back in the Mayan days wouldn't look anything like the creature that they show us in Alien and Aliens.
Why couldn't the alien have alway's been able to do this, and we just had not seen this in the film or literature. Maybe it's a back-up reproduction method for a queen who is not fully grown and has no drones or warrior's to protect her nest initially. It's gonna be great.
i agree with that and honestly it can be a great addition to the cycle
Quote from: Flaming Firefox on Nov 10, 2007, 10:00:57 PM
Quote from: Master on Nov 10, 2007, 09:57:45 PM
Quote from: Flaming Firefox on Nov 10, 2007, 09:52:41 PM
How the hell am I supposed to take this reproductive method seriously? It is totally illogical and doesn't fit with prior Alien reproductive methods. Their internal digestive organs would have to be tied into the internal reproductive organs. That is a very complex thing for an organism to make work. ::)
I thought about exactly thesame.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=8176.45
Last post at the bottom of the page.
Thanks for the backup man! :)
Always willing to backup wise people. ;)
Quote from: Wolf Sazen on Nov 10, 2007, 10:07:21 PM
Quote from: Flaming Firefox on Nov 10, 2007, 09:52:41 PM
How the hell am I supposed to take this reproductive method seriously? It is totally illogical and doesn't fit with prior Alien reproductive methods. Their internal digestive organs would have to be tied into the internal reproductive organs. That is a very complex thing for an organism to make work. ::)
You guys kill me, acting like you know what your talking about scientifically. Give it a rest man. Watch the movie, I bet you like it.
Why I should give a rest to things that could have been done right, but two unexperienced guys wanted to leave their mark on them, and therefore f**ked them. I want good film! Not shitty or medium class.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 10, 2007, 10:07:53 PM
They been around a long long time....its possible for them over that time to devolp mutliple ways to reproduce,
Yeah they could. But it doesn`t make sense.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 10, 2007, 10:07:53 PM
They been around a long long time....its possible for them over that time to devolp mutliple ways to reproduce,
well not all at once. They could theoretically evolve in millions of years to have a different or slightly different cycle, but why would they have so much redundancy? Nature wouldn't do that and the space jockeys wouldn't want them to do reproduce all over the place and make them more of a risk and thus harder to control in the event that they actually created the species.
Besides they have the egg morphing thing as the emergency means of reproduction. None of this molting into a queen or vomiting embryos make any f**king sense.
Even if egg-morphing is considered non-canon, it wouldn't mean that they absolutely have a backup way to reproduc, why would they? Just because they are deadly, efficient and highly adaptable doesn't mean that the rules of nature wouldn't apply to them, if they can't reproduce and survive the normal way then they'd die off, its that simple.
Predators surely don't have more than one way to reproduce or either do people(invitro fertilization doesn't count or cloning as those are artificial means and not of nature)
Alien wouldn't be very scary if everything it did made sense in my book...second it could have devolped it over time and have the ability to use it when needed, if one way works better than an other at atime it can use it if not it uses another
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 10, 2007, 10:41:30 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 10, 2007, 10:07:53 PM
They been around a long long time....its possible for them over that time to devolp mutliple ways to reproduce,
well not all at once. They could theoretically evolve in millions of years to have a different or slightly different cycle, but why would they have so much redundancy? Nature wouldn't do that and the space jockeys wouldn't want them to do reproduce all over the place and make them more of a risk and thus harder to control in the event that they actually created the species.
Besides they have the egg morphing thing as the emergency means of reproduction. None of this molting into a queen or vomiting embryos make any f**king sense.
Even if egg-morphing is considered non-canon, it wouldn't mean that they absolutely have a backup way to reproduc, why would they? Just because they are deadly, efficient and highly adaptable doesn't mean that the rules of nature wouldn't apply to them, if they can't reproduce and survive the normal way then they'd die off, its that simple.
Predators surely don't have more than one way to reproduce or either do people(invitro fertilization doesn't count or cloning as those are artificial means and not of nature)
Another good point. Queen is produceing eggs, if there is no queen drone can make egg ( with queen facehugger/ queen embryo carying facehugger) and after few days there is new queen. There is on need for fu<king third life cycle ( A:R= differenc case).
In addition why would a highly adaptable creature go from a more efficient means of reproduction, queen that can lay many eggs quickly thus repopulating the species quickly to a less efficient system, actually hunting down a victim individually and impregnating the victim, sure you cut out the egg and facehugger which is more efficient, but you drastically cut down the ability to impregnate multiple victims quickly and it takes more time individually Chet would have to constantly be hunting victims to succesfully repopulate. Under this system if Chet dies then so does the species, under the queen-egg system even if the queen is killed theoretically eggs will still be around to repopulate the species.
Quote from: Flaming Firefox on Nov 10, 2007, 11:05:02 PM
In addition why would a highly adaptable creature go from a more efficient means of reproduction, queen that can lay many eggs quickly thus repopulating the species quickly to a less efficient system, actually hunting down a victim individually and impregnating the victim, sure you cut out the egg and facehugger which is more efficient, but you drastically cut down the ability to impregnate multiple victims quickly and it takes more time individually Chet would have to constantly be hunting victims to succesfully repopulate. Under this system if Chet dies then so does the species, under the queen-egg system even if the queen is killed theoretically eggs will still be around to repopulate the species.
not neccarily...under this a new warrior could molt as Chet did, good points with the origanal reproduction...this one is faster and in a hostile sitation were Chet couldn't set up shop and lay eggs this works better
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 10, 2007, 11:09:12 PM
Quote from: Flaming Firefox on Nov 10, 2007, 11:05:02 PM
In addition why would a highly adaptable creature go from a more efficient means of reproduction, queen that can lay many eggs quickly thus repopulating the species quickly to a less efficient system, actually hunting down a victim individually and impregnating the victim, sure you cut out the egg and facehugger which is more efficient, but you drastically cut down the ability to impregnate multiple victims quickly and it takes more time individually Chet would have to constantly be hunting victims to succesfully repopulate. Under this system if Chet dies then so does the species, under the queen-egg system even if the queen is killed theoretically eggs will still be around to repopulate the species.
not neccarily...under this a new warrior could molt as Chet did, good points with the origanal reproduction...this one is faster and in a hostile sitation were Chet couldn't set up shop and lay eggs this works better
We'll just have to see how long it takes Chet to "Molt" huh. That could determine its efficiency or not. If every warrior could molt and reproduce this way it would at least make some kind of sense but so far it appears it is just Chet.
Quote from: Flaming Firefox on Nov 10, 2007, 11:15:14 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 10, 2007, 11:09:12 PM
Quote from: Flaming Firefox on Nov 10, 2007, 11:05:02 PM
In addition why would a highly adaptable creature go from a more efficient means of reproduction, queen that can lay many eggs quickly thus repopulating the species quickly to a less efficient system, actually hunting down a victim individually and impregnating the victim, sure you cut out the egg and facehugger which is more efficient, but you drastically cut down the ability to impregnate multiple victims quickly and it takes more time individually Chet would have to constantly be hunting victims to succesfully repopulate. Under this system if Chet dies then so does the species, under the queen-egg system even if the queen is killed theoretically eggs will still be around to repopulate the species.
not neccarily...under this a new warrior could molt as Chet did, good points with the origanal reproduction...this one is faster and in a hostile sitation were Chet couldn't set up shop and lay eggs this works better
We'll just have to see how long it takes Chet to "Molt" huh. That could determine its efficiency or not. If every warrior could molt and reproduce this way it would at least make some kind of sense but so far it appears it is just Chet.
Well its not just Chet, the idea is that one Alien will become a Queen if every alien did it a once we'd have a million Queens in this movie yea just Chet, but in other a normal alien could
The reason they don't all have to do it though is that one molted alien queen can produce probably thousands of eggs. I was always under the impression that only a Praetorian could molt but that is something that isn't canon though.
The Aliens as established by Cameron are essential very similar to Bees in reproduction. It is where the whole Queen, Molting, Drone, Hive thing comes from.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey_bee
Quote from: Flaming Firefox on Nov 10, 2007, 11:30:39 PM
The reason they don't all have to do it though is that one molted alien queen can produce probably thousands of eggs. I was always under the impression that only a Praetorian could molt but that is something that isn't canon though.
The Aliens as established by Cameron are essential very similar to Bees in reproduction. It is where the whole Queen, Molting, Drone, Hive thing comes from.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey_bee
Praetorian is not canon and not needed, this is more efficant than they are
I don't see substanial evidence that points to every Alien having the capacity to molt into a queen. We've always seen a fully grown queen and never more than one at a time.
Quote from: Flaming Firefox on Nov 10, 2007, 11:43:30 PM
I don't see substanial evidence that points to every Alien having the capacity to molt into a queen. We've always seen a fully grown queen and never more than one at a time.
The theory is not that every alien transfroms into a Queen its that if there is no other way one could become a Queen any warrior...also nothing say that they can't either
ok, so i'd like to joint in here to give my meaning to this 'happening'.....
first of all, I am a nr1 fan of the alien & predator movies.....
sidenote, is that I think alien 4 / resurrection totally sucked ass, atleast from the part the gayish f**ked up alien 'humanoid baby' jumped in the movie. well offcourse the movie had to fail if you give it a french director....though he managed keeping it tight till that certain moment. the idiot 'alien-ish' bug at the beginning of that movie sucked ass too and had no clue or binding with anything ever but thats aside. the whole 'cloning' stuff worked out not bad I think and ripley was quite acceptable too with the alien dna.
that the Alien queen got a human reproductive system, first of all totally sucked ass, but since ripley got clone-screwed and had alien-genes, why couldn't the alien. it just totally sucked that it gave birth to such a total alien-series screwer xenodork. they could've done it far better, but lets not get this thread to a alien 4 discussion.
what the point there is, the movie 'flopped' to the true fans and story, and nobody really likes the end of it....
SO, you'd think people would learn from it and not f**k a lifespan/story again....
must say im quite concerned that theyre making that same mistake again, and by what i've seen and heard from this new movie, there are some lame ass donkeyraping dorks that direct this movie. given, the theatrical trailers look awesome.
I for one think the predalien doesn't look that bad, it just couldve been better.
but for the fact of the mouth regoritating (howdayaspellit), that is the most idiotic idea ever!
DONT f**k UP THE PERFECT ALIEN LIFE CYCLE.
like said in the alien 1 movie, remeber, that movie is PARAMOUNT for anything that has to do with ALIEN, and alienS was GREAT for having a director that was made out of the same ideas and material as ridley scott! he 'invented' the alien Queen, and did an amazing job with it!
keep to the script!
anyway, the alien (embryo) takes over certain capabilities/characteristics from its 'host'. So in a human, that would have to mean the humanoid arms, legs, and 'skin' (head). remember the dogalien in alien 3?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fd-debut.hp.infoseek.co.jp%2Ftopics%2Fdog_alien.jpg&hash=0cbd29b4e850fabce2a77fd524ec3e54bb14c517)
still very similar to the alien species, only with a obvious doglike build, using 4 longer legs to 'walk', and a different body shape, but still obviously alien.
so that an facehugger embryo growing in a predator grows to a predalien,
I can still buy and think is a good aspect of the species.
So the side fangs are a acceptable appearance. maybe the hands of the alien are more like the predator, and the tail has a different design.
but as far as predator skin? I havent seen an alien with human 'peach skin'?
and as far as the dreads? haven't seen a alien with human HAIR???
I could accept the predalien in forms like these:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftn3-1.deviantart.com%2F300W%2Fimages3.deviantart.com%2Fi%2F2004%2F10%2Fb%2F6%2FPredalien_by_Tina_Leyk.jpg&hash=ab8f85c9ecc2244db70996900ece8979cfaf581a)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fusers.netconnect.com.au%2F%7Eryley%2FPREDALIEN.JPG&hash=cb12e73e7518a86ec0b06d8fc086ed52e1b3a225)
here the dreads arent too 'accentuated' in the design....
for as far as these designs:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.planetavp.com%2Fimages%2F5-philhickerson-Beanspan%40aol.com.jpg&hash=018e573438b2cc420ab231883275e9e92a093a83)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.daveseeley.com%2Fportfolio_folder%2Fimages%2FPredatorPredalien.jpg&hash=622e489c8f62d18fc8788caf794173590a5a62de)
I could still accept it.
but the new reproducint system is major sucking ass!
and what's this talk about EGG MORPHING?
didn't catch up with that, what does that mean? a human will morph into an egg?
so some girl f.e. named 'betty' gets a deeptroat facial like x-rated movie / porn
and she then becomes an egg?
or does she shit out an alien egg?
or puke out an alien egg?
what the hell?
I'd say, an alien QUEEN COULD be a morph from a 'warrior' if there is demand for it. F.E. how frogs have the ability to 'morph' into an opposite 'sex' if there is demand for it.
that alien queen will lay eggs and from there off itll grow to the insectoid pleague it is....
as a second reproductive system, I'd even concider a single alien being able to legg an egg, which will give birth to an alien QUEEN.....to lay eggs. also acceptable.
but just dumping the entire alien lifespan in the lew is totally lame!
HOWEVER, since I think this thing is not going out of the movie since itll be in cinema next month, only thing we can sitll HOPE for is the producers have not f**ked it up entirely....
I for one HOPE, itll only happen ONCE, and the embryo implanted via the mouth would be a baby Queen, and after that there will be no need for deepthroating....
ohterwise, there would be no need or logic excistence for a facehugger, which is a superb design
at itself, implanting the host with a just 'mixed' embryo, and then dying like a salmon when its done....then the host growing the alien inside as a 'warrior'. like an ant/bee working drone.
...though still the deepthroating will be a stupid thing, as an alien morphing into a Queen would be far more 'believable' then a mouth-dick....
and don't come up with 'its an alien, anything is possible' crap, that is 10 year old trash talk from dumbasses having no imagination and thinking discovery's 'alien planet' is cool and could happen...
anyway, one thing must not be forgotten, in the trailer, on pics and posters, we can obviously see, there are CLASSIC aliens.
so where the HELL will they come from?
from the predalien-oral-sexed girl's chest? maybe acceptable....if you accept the mouthdicking....
but that must be a queen then! since a normal alien would not be mouthdicking? so there certainly would need to be an alien queen in the movie! but I haven't seen it yet?
but if it will not be there, then where will the aliens come from?
surely not all the 'human'-grown xenomorphs wont all suddenly dickmouth everybody?
the answer clearly will be 'NO', since in the trailer, a man and his son got facehugged in the woods, and facehuggers, come from eggs (which I strangely enough didnt see in the woods),
so there HAS to be a Queen.....(since there were more then 1 facehugger).....
and for as far as the single predalien, shouldnt there be more? the predalien coming out of the avp1 movie, was the first one on the ship. surely it cannot kill ALL the highly-skilled & trained predators on board and cause it to crash all by itself, and then one 'wolf' predator is able to kill
ALL the aliens/predators on earth?
anyway, from the videos ive seen, the redband trailer, the population trailer and pics, I still think this movie will be kickass and I'll love looking at it.
I for one am not a aliens vs predator hater, I actually enjoyed the movie. Not as much as Alien 1 or 2, but still, i liked it and don't get why it would be so bad? surely if humans can catch them and keep them (alien 4), predators should find a way of using them too? and offcourse, without
that story, there could be no avp-requiem since a predator ship crashes into earth...(but where is the mothership?)
I just think the aliens i've seen in requiem look off from the cool look they had had in 1 & 2 (the head)....
ill just await the movie, hope its gonna rule
Quote from: cliffhanger on Nov 11, 2007, 12:48:07 AM
for as far as these designs:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.planetavp.com%2Fimages%2F5-philhickerson-Beanspan%40aol.com.jpg&hash=018e573438b2cc420ab231883275e9e92a093a83)
http://www.daveseeley.com/portfolio_folder/images/PredatorPredalien.jpg
I could still accept it.
Let's repeat:
Quote(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.planetavp.com%2Fimages%2F5-philhickerson-Beanspan%40aol.com.jpg&hash=018e573438b2cc420ab231883275e9e92a093a83)
I could still accept it.
Holy carp.
You must love the movie design.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 10, 2007, 10:41:30 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 10, 2007, 10:07:53 PM
They been around a long long time....its possible for them over that time to devolp mutliple ways to reproduce,
well not all at once. They could theoretically evolve in millions of years to have a different or slightly different cycle, but why would they have so much redundancy? Nature wouldn't do that and the space jockeys wouldn't want them to do reproduce all over the place and make them more of a risk and thus harder to control in the event that they actually created the species.
Besides they have the egg morphing thing as the emergency means of reproduction. None of this molting into a queen or vomiting embryos make any f**king sense.
Even if egg-morphing is considered non-canon, it wouldn't mean that they absolutely have a backup way to reproduc, why would they? Just because they are deadly, efficient and highly adaptable doesn't mean that the rules of nature wouldn't apply to them, if they can't reproduce and survive the normal way then they'd die off, its that simple.
Predators surely don't have more than one way to reproduce or either do people(invitro fertilization doesn't count or cloning as those are artificial means and not of nature)
When are you gonna get it Ballzy? The alien is like AIDS, it creeps up silently and kills you with no prejudice, and though it can be held off for a time, it always destroy's you eventually. With that being said, that's what makes these creature's so f*ckin scary, we don't, and shouldn't know everything about them.
Quote from: Flaming Firefox on Nov 10, 2007, 11:15:14 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 10, 2007, 11:09:12 PM
Quote from: Flaming Firefox on Nov 10, 2007, 11:05:02 PM
In addition why would a highly adaptable creature go from a more efficient means of reproduction, queen that can lay many eggs quickly thus repopulating the species quickly to a less efficient system, actually hunting down a victim individually and impregnating the victim, sure you cut out the egg and facehugger which is more efficient, but you drastically cut down the ability to impregnate multiple victims quickly and it takes more time individually Chet would have to constantly be hunting victims to succesfully repopulate. Under this system if Chet dies then so does the species, under the queen-egg system even if the queen is killed theoretically eggs will still be around to repopulate the species.
not neccarily...under this a new warrior could molt as Chet did, good points with the origanal reproduction...this one is faster and in a hostile sitation were Chet couldn't set up shop and lay eggs this works better
We'll just have to see how long it takes Chet to "Molt" huh. That could determine its efficiency or not. If every warrior could molt and reproduce this way it would at least make some kind of sense but so far it appears it is just Chet.
Yes, a whole ARMY of face rape barf bag monsters. Last time i checked AvP didn't include the word Urosukidoji in it.
Quote from: Master on Nov 10, 2007, 10:18:40 PM
Quote from: Flaming Firefox on Nov 10, 2007, 10:00:57 PM
Quote from: Master on Nov 10, 2007, 09:57:45 PM
Quote from: Flaming Firefox on Nov 10, 2007, 09:52:41 PM
How the hell am I supposed to take this reproductive method seriously? It is totally illogical and doesn't fit with prior Alien reproductive methods. Their internal digestive organs would have to be tied into the internal reproductive organs. That is a very complex thing for an organism to make work. ::)
I thought about exactly thesame.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=8176.45
Last post at the bottom of the page.
Thanks for the backup man! :)
Always willing to backup wise people. ;)
Quote from: Wolf Sazen on Nov 10, 2007, 10:07:21 PM
Quote from: Flaming Firefox on Nov 10, 2007, 09:52:41 PM
How the hell am I supposed to take this reproductive method seriously? It is totally illogical and doesn't fit with prior Alien reproductive methods. Their internal digestive organs would have to be tied into the internal reproductive organs. That is a very complex thing for an organism to make work. ::)
You guys kill me, acting like you know what your talking about scientifically. Give it a rest man. Watch the movie, I bet you like it.
Why I should give a rest to things that could have been done right, but two unexperienced guys wanted to leave their mark on them, and therefore f**ked them. I want good film! Not shitty or medium class.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 10, 2007, 10:07:53 PM
They been around a long long time....its possible for them over that time to devolp mutliple ways to reproduce,
Yeah they could. But it doesn`t make sense.
How can you call yourself a master, when you won't even look outside the box? I'll say this, the thing they tried to do in "Alien-R" was terrible with the queen/Ripley sex thing, and the human looking alien. That was a terrible blow to the franchise, but this method can tie right in with what we've seen before, and YES, make sense. The queen needs a safe place to mature and get ready to begin nesting, so she needs drones/warriors to protect and help build a hive. To achieve this end, initially she resorts to personally implanting several host's via mouth to mouth, but only to reach her ultimate goal of starting and maintaining a hive. Even if egg-molting was canon, it seems it would take longer than this method which seems to be a back-up/emergency way to reproduce. Besides, I think it will be much more shocking and scary to watch the queen regurgitate her embryo down a host's throat. So in this initial phase/situation she takes the place of the face-hugger. It's gonna work, believe in it.
I hear the term looking outside the box thrown around quite a bit. Personally I think if the film makers had done a lot more of that, then we wouldn't be here arguing now. There are so many other "out of the box" opportunities the films makers could have taken to leave their mark on the franchise. What they chose with the regurgitating impregnation, is so the opposite of outside the box thinking. When I see an idea that is outside the box, like Cameron addition of the queen and hive. The word genius immediately comes to mind. When I first read about the mouth to mouth impregnation, all I could think is how fecking dumb that was. My brain was immediately flooded by a cascade of illogical scenarios.
Putting it simply, there is no answer to explain why the queen doesn't retain that ability to adulthood. Its logical that she should, its quicker and more efficient. Why when she reaches her full potential is she suddenly muted?
The truth is, it can never make sense.
Accept it, and move on.
Forget the film ever existed like most have done with Alien: R and AvP.
If you're an Alien fan like me, email fox and beg them for a Cameron / Ridley combo of Alien 5.
Then what reproduction idea would you put in? You could probably come up with an idea, that we would hate maybe.
I wouldn't put any new reproduction idea in. Because it doesn't need it if the bloody story is good. ;D
Quote from: cliffhanger on Nov 11, 2007, 12:48:07 AM
ok, so i'd like to joint in here to give my meaning to this 'happening'.....
first of all, I am a nr1 fan of the alien & predator movies.....
sidenote, is that I think alien 4 / resurrection totally sucked ass, atleast from the part the gayish f**ked up alien 'humanoid baby' jumped in the movie. well offcourse the movie had to fail if you give it a french director....though he managed keeping it tight till that certain moment. the idiot 'alien-ish' bug at the beginning of that movie sucked ass too and had no clue or binding with anything ever but thats aside. the whole 'cloning' stuff worked out not bad I think and ripley was quite acceptable too with the alien dna.
that the Alien queen got a human reproductive system, first of all totally sucked ass, but since ripley got clone-screwed and had alien-genes, why couldn't the alien. it just totally sucked that it gave birth to such a total alien-series screwer xenodork. they could've done it far better, but lets not get this thread to a alien 4 discussion.
what the point there is, the movie 'flopped' to the true fans and story, and nobody really likes the end of it....
SO, you'd think people would learn from it and not f**k a lifespan/story again....
must say im quite concerned that theyre making that same mistake again, and by what i've seen and heard from this new movie, there are some lame ass donkeyraping dorks that direct this movie. given, the theatrical trailers look awesome.
I for one think the predalien doesn't look that bad, it just couldve been better.
but for the fact of the mouth regoritating (howdayaspellit), that is the most idiotic idea ever!
DONT f**k UP THE PERFECT ALIEN LIFE CYCLE.
like said in the alien 1 movie, remeber, that movie is PARAMOUNT for anything that has to do with ALIEN, and alienS was GREAT for having a director that was made out of the same ideas and material as ridley scott! he 'invented' the alien Queen, and did an amazing job with it!
keep to the script!
anyway, the alien (embryo) takes over certain capabilities/characteristics from its 'host'. So in a human, that would have to mean the humanoid arms, legs, and 'skin' (head). remember the dogalien in alien 3?
http://d-debut.hp.infoseek.co.jp/topics/dog_alien.jpg
still very similar to the alien species, only with a obvious doglike build, using 4 longer legs to 'walk', and a different body shape, but still obviously alien.
so that an facehugger embryo growing in a predator grows to a predalien,
I can still buy and think is a good aspect of the species.
So the side fangs are a acceptable appearance. maybe the hands of the alien are more like the predator, and the tail has a different design.
but as far as predator skin? I havent seen an alien with human 'peach skin'?
and as far as the dreads? haven't seen a alien with human HAIR???
I could accept the predalien in forms like these:
http://tn3-1.deviantart.com/300W/images3.deviantart.com/i/2004/10/b/6/Predalien_by_Tina_Leyk.jpg
http://users.netconnect.com.au/~ryley/PREDALIEN.JPG
here the dreads arent too 'accentuated' in the design....
for as far as these designs:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.planetavp.com%2Fimages%2F5-philhickerson-Beanspan%40aol.com.jpg&hash=018e573438b2cc420ab231883275e9e92a093a83)
http://www.daveseeley.com/portfolio_folder/images/PredatorPredalien.jpg
I could still accept it.
but the new reproducint system is major sucking ass!
and what's this talk about EGG MORPHING?
didn't catch up with that, what does that mean? a human will morph into an egg?
so some girl f.e. named 'betty' gets a deeptroat facial like x-rated movie / porn
and she then becomes an egg?
or does she shit out an alien egg?
or puke out an alien egg?
what the hell?
I'd say, an alien QUEEN COULD be a morph from a 'warrior' if there is demand for it. F.E. how frogs have the ability to 'morph' into an opposite 'sex' if there is demand for it.
that alien queen will lay eggs and from there off itll grow to the insectoid pleague it is....
as a second reproductive system, I'd even concider a single alien being able to legg an egg, which will give birth to an alien QUEEN.....to lay eggs. also acceptable.
but just dumping the entire alien lifespan in the lew is totally lame!
HOWEVER, since I think this thing is not going out of the movie since itll be in cinema next month, only thing we can sitll HOPE for is the producers have not f**ked it up entirely....
I for one HOPE, itll only happen ONCE, and the embryo implanted via the mouth would be a baby Queen, and after that there will be no need for deepthroating....
ohterwise, there would be no need or logic excistence for a facehugger, which is a superb design
at itself, implanting the host with a just 'mixed' embryo, and then dying like a salmon when its done....then the host growing the alien inside as a 'warrior'. like an ant/bee working drone.
...though still the deepthroating will be a stupid thing, as an alien morphing into a Queen would be far more 'believable' then a mouth-dick....
and don't come up with 'its an alien, anything is possible' crap, that is 10 year old trash talk from dumbasses having no imagination and thinking discovery's 'alien planet' is cool and could happen...
anyway, one thing must not be forgotten, in the trailer, on pics and posters, we can obviously see, there are CLASSIC aliens.
so where the HELL will they come from?
from the predalien-oral-sexed girl's chest? maybe acceptable....if you accept the mouthdicking....
but that must be a queen then! since a normal alien would not be mouthdicking? so there certainly would need to be an alien queen in the movie! but I haven't seen it yet?
but if it will not be there, then where will the aliens come from?
surely not all the 'human'-grown xenomorphs wont all suddenly dickmouth everybody?
the answer clearly will be 'NO', since in the trailer, a man and his son got facehugged in the woods, and facehuggers, come from eggs (which I strangely enough didnt see in the woods),
so there HAS to be a Queen.....(since there were more then 1 facehugger).....
and for as far as the single predalien, shouldnt there be more? the predalien coming out of the avp1 movie, was the first one on the ship. surely it cannot kill ALL the highly-skilled & trained predators on board and cause it to crash all by itself, and then one 'wolf' predator is able to kill
ALL the aliens/predators on earth?
anyway, from the videos ive seen, the redband trailer, the population trailer and pics, I still think this movie will be kickass and I'll love looking at it.
I for one am not a aliens vs predator hater, I actually enjoyed the movie. Not as much as Alien 1 or 2, but still, i liked it and don't get why it would be so bad? surely if humans can catch them and keep them (alien 4), predators should find a way of using them too? and offcourse, without
that story, there could be no avp-requiem since a predator ship crashes into earth...(but where is the mothership?)
I just think the aliens i've seen in requiem look off from the cool look they had had in 1 & 2 (the head)....
ill just await the movie, hope its gonna rule
Thank you! Thank you! :)
Quote from: Sh0dan on Nov 11, 2007, 02:47:04 AM
I here the term looking outside the box thrown around quite a bit. Personally I think if the film makers had done a lot more of that, then we wouldn't be here arguing now. There are so many other "out of the box" opportunities the films makers could have taken to leave their mark on the franchise. What they chose with the regurgitating impregnation, is so the opposite of outside the box thinking. When I see an idea that is outside the box, like Cameron addition of the queen and hive. The word genius immediately comes to mind. When I first read about the mouth to mouth impregnation, all I could think is how fecking dumb that was. My brain was immediately flooded by a cascade of illogical scenarios.
Putting it simply, there is no answer to explain why the queen doesn't retain that ability to adulthood. Its logical that she should, its quicker and more efficient. Why when she reaches her full potential is should she suddenly muted?
The truth is, it can never make sense.
Accept it, and move on.
Forget the film ever existed like most have done with Alien: R and AvP.
If you're an Alien fan like me, email fox and beg them for a Cameron / Ridley combo of Alien 5.
I so agree. :)
Quote from: Plokoon111 on Nov 11, 2007, 02:53:40 AM
Then what reproduction idea would you put in? You could probably come up with an idea, that we would hate maybe.
Would you mind elaborating on why exactly a new reproduction method was even needed at all?
If ADI weren't lazy and wanted to sculpt eggs and more facehuggers in addition to all the predator shit, the predalien and aliens, we could have eggs to explain why more aliens are running around. (all would still be in the budget by the way, or at least should be, as Alien:Resurrection had eggs, facehuggers, alliens, a queen and the horrible hybrid known as the newborn, and it might have had a slightly higher budget, but it can't be by that much.)
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 11, 2007, 03:56:59 AM
Quote from: Plokoon111 on Nov 11, 2007, 02:53:40 AM
Then what reproduction idea would you put in? You could probably come up with an idea, that we would hate maybe.
Would you mind elaborating on why exactly a new reproduction method was even needed at all?
If ADI weren't lazy and wanted to sculpt eggs and more facehuggers in addition to all the predator shit, the predalien and aliens, we could have eggs to explain why more aliens are running around. (all would still be in the budget by the way, or at least should be, as Alien:Resurrection had eggs, facehuggers, alliens, a queen and the horrible hybrid known as the newborn, and it might have had a slightly higher budget, but it can't be by that much.)
Fx gave AVP=R more money...i think that tells u they needed money....so what we got it all they could afford
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 04:03:17 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 11, 2007, 03:56:59 AM
Quote from: Plokoon111 on Nov 11, 2007, 02:53:40 AM
Then what reproduction idea would you put in? You could probably come up with an idea, that we would hate maybe.
Would you mind elaborating on why exactly a new reproduction method was even needed at all?
If ADI weren't lazy and wanted to sculpt eggs and more facehuggers in addition to all the predator shit, the predalien and aliens, we could have eggs to explain why more aliens are running around. (all would still be in the budget by the way, or at least should be, as Alien:Resurrection had eggs, facehuggers, alliens, a queen and the horrible hybrid known as the newborn, and it might have had a slightly higher budget, but it can't be by that much.)
Fx gave AVP=R more money...i think that tells u they needed money....so what we got it all they could afford
yeah but come on, considering that there aren't too many cgi shots, and most stuff is done in camera and there are only 12 alien suits and one predator for most of the film, the budget should have been sufficient to show some eggs on the crashed predator spaceship. For f**k's sake, ADI would have to have some leftover from the first avp that they could slightly alter, re-paint..etc. (they'd only need like 6-7 tangible props, they could use in camera effects to make it look like there are more on the ship, the same way they made it look llike there were more cryotubes in Aliens than there actually were)
The budget is not a good enough excuse for this new reproductive method bullshit. It might have been in the script before any budget was decided on for all we know.
Well i think i'd be kinda ridicoulous to see the march of the Facehuggers...
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 04:15:55 AM
Well i think i'd be kinda ridicoulous to see the march of the Facehuggers...
lol. You wouldn't show them all leaving the eggs and running around in one giant clump, or like some follow the leader, with a lead facehugger(the equivalent of grid from avp. lol)
But rather some of the people looking for the hunter and his son could have been shown hugged and some more eggs would open up and it would then cut away, with the implication that about 20 facehuggers would attach themselves to hosts.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 11, 2007, 04:19:10 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 04:15:55 AM
Well i think i'd be kinda ridicoulous to see the march of the Facehuggers...
lol. You wouldn't show them all leaving the eggs and running around in one giant clump, or like some follow the leader, with a lead facehugger(the equivalent of grid from avp. lol)
But rather some of the people looking for the hunter and his son could have been shown hugged and some more eggs would open up and it would then cut away, with the implication that about 20 facehuggers would attach themselves to hosts.
or a ship with that many eggs would make it to space jokey like....and i mean based on the amount the movie would need....
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 04:23:11 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 11, 2007, 04:19:10 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 04:15:55 AM
Well i think i'd be kinda ridicoulous to see the march of the Facehuggers...
lol. You wouldn't show them all leaving the eggs and running around in one giant clump, or like some follow the leader, with a lead facehugger(the equivalent of grid from avp. lol)
But rather some of the people looking for the hunter and his son could have been shown hugged and some more eggs would open up and it would then cut away, with the implication that about 20 facehuggers would attach themselves to hosts.
or a ship with that many eggs would make it to space jokey like....and i mean based on the amount the movie would need....
20-30 eggs is space jockey like? Last time I checked there were hundreds if not thousands of eggs on the derelict ship.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 11, 2007, 04:26:01 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 04:23:11 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 11, 2007, 04:19:10 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 04:15:55 AM
Well i think i'd be kinda ridicoulous to see the march of the Facehuggers...
lol. You wouldn't show them all leaving the eggs and running around in one giant clump, or like some follow the leader, with a lead facehugger(the equivalent of grid from avp. lol)
But rather some of the people looking for the hunter and his son could have been shown hugged and some more eggs would open up and it would then cut away, with the implication that about 20 facehuggers would attach themselves to hosts.
or a ship with that many eggs would make it to space jokey like....and i mean based on the amount the movie would need....
20-30 eggs is space jockey like? Last time I checked there were hundreds if not thousands of eggs on the derelict ship.
sorry bout that edited to late, they have alot mroe than that in the movie so it would require a...
MArch of the Facehuggers to "Ride of the Valkyries"
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 04:28:13 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 11, 2007, 04:26:01 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 04:23:11 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 11, 2007, 04:19:10 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 04:15:55 AM
Well i think i'd be kinda ridicoulous to see the march of the Facehuggers...
lol. You wouldn't show them all leaving the eggs and running around in one giant clump, or like some follow the leader, with a lead facehugger(the equivalent of grid from avp. lol)
But rather some of the people looking for the hunter and his son could have been shown hugged and some more eggs would open up and it would then cut away, with the implication that about 20 facehuggers would attach themselves to hosts.
or a ship with that many eggs would make it to space jokey like....and i mean based on the amount the movie would need....
20-30 eggs is space jockey like? Last time I checked there were hundreds if not thousands of eggs on the derelict ship.
sorry bout that edited to late, they have alot mroe than that in the movie so it would require a...
MArch of the Facehuggers to "Ride of the Valkyries"
actually we don't know how many aliens are in the movie, but its a moot point, since most of them come from the vomiting thing. If that wasn't used, the film would feature 20-30 aliens and the predalien. Sufficient enough to wreak havoc in the town in my opinion, as one in alien 3 was able to kill around 20 people and unlike in Aliens, no one would be expecting them while they sneak in to grab hosts.
The factor that could have added to the number of aliens mid to late mid film, would be a queen born from one of the hosts. You wouldn't have to show too many of the eggs laid by it, since it would have just started doing so, so there could have been like maybe 10 more aliens added from that. The queen wouldn't have to be the final battle, the predalien could still have been. (as it would still be a little bigger/stronger than a normal warrior alien etc.)
Know I know that props related to the queen have to be still present in ADI's workshops leftover from both AR and AVP. Just showing a few shots of the queen before its killed wouldn't drain the budget too much, as there wouldn't be any epic chases or battles that require such articulated and complex movements or cgi.
And fox should have expected that certain things are staples, essential for an alien related film. They should have given sufficient money to cover all the things fans expect to see and additional money for things from there if necessary. But you don't ok money for a predator homeworld, if you don't have money to show eggs or a queen.
Honestly if the Queen had been in this i might have sighed saying "Not agian...." i love the old girl but i don't want her to become boreing, and this at least helps keep the Queen unboring
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 04:44:14 AM
Honestly if the Queen had been in this i might have sighed saying "Not agian...." i love the old girl but i don't want her to become boreing, and this at least helps keep the Queen unboring
well you still have a queen albeit a young predalien queen. So by that logic you should find her boring. Really defeats the purpose of using the argument that the queen has been done to death, if you make the predalien a queen. So the host the queen comes from, makes it more or less of queen? i don't think so.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 11, 2007, 04:48:20 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 04:44:14 AM
Honestly if the Queen had been in this i might have sighed saying "Not agian...." i love the old girl but i don't want her to become boreing, and this at least helps keep the Queen unboring
well you still have a queen albeit a young predalien queen. So by that logic you should find her boring. Really defeats the purpose of using the argument that the queen has been done to death, if you make the predalien a queen. So the host the queen comes from, makes it more or less of queen? i don't think so.
Well its a Queen but a young Predalien molting into one which we haven't seen so i won't be bored by that...
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 04:49:58 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 11, 2007, 04:48:20 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 04:44:14 AM
Honestly if the Queen had been in this i might have sighed saying "Not agian...." i love the old girl but i don't want her to become boreing, and this at least helps keep the Queen unboring
well you still have a queen albeit a young predalien queen. So by that logic you should find her boring. Really defeats the purpose of using the argument that the queen has been done to death, if you make the predalien a queen. So the host the queen comes from, makes it more or less of queen? i don't think so.
Well its a Queen but a young Predalien molting into one which we haven't seen so i won't be bored by that...
except for the fact that, that makes no f**king sense. The directors and/or shane salerno should have known that you can't just make shit up that defies established canon just for the sake of being different and showing stuff that's never been seen before. There's a reason there has been 5 films featuring the aliens without resorting to that, because it f**ks up continuity and everything established about the aliens.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 11, 2007, 04:55:39 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 04:49:58 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 11, 2007, 04:48:20 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 04:44:14 AM
Honestly if the Queen had been in this i might have sighed saying "Not agian...." i love the old girl but i don't want her to become boreing, and this at least helps keep the Queen unboring
well you still have a queen albeit a young predalien queen. So by that logic you should find her boring. Really defeats the purpose of using the argument that the queen has been done to death, if you make the predalien a queen. So the host the queen comes from, makes it more or less of queen? i don't think so.
Well its a Queen but a young Predalien molting into one which we haven't seen so i won't be bored by that...
except for the fact that, that makes no f**king sense. The directors and/or shane salerno should have known that you can't just make shit up that defies established canon just for the sake of being different and showing stuff that's never been seen before. There's a reason there has been 5 films featuring the aliens without resorting to that, because it f**ks up continuity and everything established about the aliens.
Yea really messes them up.... here's some fake Quotes you can use to make that true
"Aliens are bound by to our current understanding...no way they could pull a fast one on us!!!" *aliens enter through back door*
Nothing they have ever said says it couldn't happen i could probably find more facts saying possible than impossible....doesn't defries it adds
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 04:58:24 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 11, 2007, 04:55:39 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 04:49:58 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 11, 2007, 04:48:20 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 04:44:14 AM
Honestly if the Queen had been in this i might have sighed saying "Not agian...." i love the old girl but i don't want her to become boreing, and this at least helps keep the Queen unboring
well you still have a queen albeit a young predalien queen. So by that logic you should find her boring. Really defeats the purpose of using the argument that the queen has been done to death, if you make the predalien a queen. So the host the queen comes from, makes it more or less of queen? i don't think so.
Well its a Queen but a young Predalien molting into one which we haven't seen so i won't be bored by that...
except for the fact that, that makes no f**king sense. The directors and/or shane salerno should have known that you can't just make shit up that defies established canon just for the sake of being different and showing stuff that's never been seen before. There's a reason there has been 5 films featuring the aliens without resorting to that, because it f**ks up continuity and everything established about the aliens.
Yea really messes them up.... here's some fake Quotes you can use to make that true
"Aliens are bound by to our current understanding...no way they could pull a fast one on us!!!" *aliens enter through back door*
Nothing they have ever said says it couldn't happen i could probably find more facts saying possible than impossible....doesn't defries it adds
what? That was just an incoherent mess. I have no f**king idea what your trying to say with that one. lol.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 04:44:14 AM
Honestly if the Queen had been in this i might have sighed saying "Not agian...." i love the old girl but i don't want her to become boreing, and this at least helps keep the Queen unboring
That's kind of how I feel about the Predator, he's boring, been that way since the first pred film, make him have the ability to spawn multiple clones of himself, you know just to make things interesting. ;)
You Offence is that RM dones't make sense...IT'S AN ALIEN!!!! that's it's defantion it not supoosed to be compelty in our understanding its supossed to make us scared because we can't understand it, thus making it scairer
sorry botu that last post it was weirded out lol
Quote from: Sh0dan on Nov 11, 2007, 05:09:04 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 04:44:14 AM
Honestly if the Queen had been in this i might have sighed saying "Not agian...." i love the old girl but i don't want her to become boreing, and this at least helps keep the Queen unboring
That's kind of how I feel about the Predator, he's boring, been that way since the first pred film, make him have the ability to spawn multiple clones of himself, you know just to make things interesting. ;)
That is completely out there and makes no sense what so ever...this is at least cutting a whole in what we know and pasting itself in there....nice try thought
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 05:09:15 AM
You Offence is that RM dones't make sense...IT'S AN ALIEN!!!! that's it's defantion it not supoosed to be compelty in our understanding its supossed to make us scared because we can't understand it, thus making it scairer
sorry botu that last post it was weirded out lol
Its not that the new reproduction method doesn't match up with anything in the known universe, it makes no sense because there is no need for it and no reason a young queen would do it. Are we supposed to believe there are any number of transitional phases in a queen's lifeycle that each have radically different reproductive abilities that all phase out once that queen reaches maturity and starts laying eggs?
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 11, 2007, 05:13:10 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 05:09:15 AM
You Offence is that RM dones't make sense...IT'S AN ALIEN!!!! that's it's defantion it not supoosed to be compelty in our understanding its supossed to make us scared because we can't understand it, thus making it scairer
sorry botu that last post it was weirded out lol
Its not that the new reproduction method doesn't match up with anything in the known universe, it makes no sense because there is no need for it and no reason a young queen would do it. Are we supposed to believe there are any number of transitional phases in a queen's lifeycle that each have radically different reproductive abilities that all phase out once that queen reaches maturity and starts laying eggs?
Well two parts to that...one who says it can't keep puking...and second its an alien? the point is to make u beliave the unbelaviable
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 05:14:33 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 11, 2007, 05:13:10 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 05:09:15 AM
You Offence is that RM dones't make sense...IT'S AN ALIEN!!!! that's it's defantion it not supoosed to be compelty in our understanding its supossed to make us scared because we can't understand it, thus making it scairer
sorry botu that last post it was weirded out lol
Its not that the new reproduction method doesn't match up with anything in the known universe, it makes no sense because there is no need for it and no reason a young queen would do it. Are we supposed to believe there are any number of transitional phases in a queen's lifeycle that each have radically different reproductive abilities that all phase out once that queen reaches maturity and starts laying eggs?
Well two parts to that...one who says it can't keep puking...and second its an alien? the point is to make u beliave the unbelaviable
The Alien films which show an adult queen show that it can't keep reproducing by puking, as it was never done in that case. (Don't argue that it could have but was never seen doing it, as that is arbitary and unecessary retroactive insertion of a newly concocted bullshit theory into an already closed reproductive cycle, that didn't require further elaboration or expansion of any kind)
Just because something is an alien, and its a sci-fi film, doesn't mean it can do anything at all no matter how unbelievable. An alien shouldn't be able to fly, or melt someone just by hissing at him..etc., The things they do have already been established, its too late in the game so to speak to make up new shit for them in hindsight. (especially without it contradicting the other films)
I am sure you are just typing in words at random Major. ;D
You need to stop, not only because it is hurting my head, but because everyone else's counter arguments are making perfect sense and yours are going back round to square one again. You are in a vicious circle trying to defend something that cannot be defended, every new counter argument you provide just leads to more contradiction and senselessness within the fiction.
:) Please don't be offended, but unless you can come up with a good solid argument with facts to back up what you are saying. Then your attempts to justify the new life cycle are just going to keep falling on deaf ears.
We could have had just eggs on board of Predator ship. No queen, no additions to LC, no problem. But they must have done that, and fu<k the whole thing.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 11, 2007, 05:19:33 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 05:14:33 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 11, 2007, 05:13:10 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 05:09:15 AM
You Offence is that RM dones't make sense...IT'S AN ALIEN!!!! that's it's defantion it not supoosed to be compelty in our understanding its supossed to make us scared because we can't understand it, thus making it scairer
sorry botu that last post it was weirded out lol
Its not that the new reproduction method doesn't match up with anything in the known universe, it makes no sense because there is no need for it and no reason a young queen would do it. Are we supposed to believe there are any number of transitional phases in a queen's lifeycle that each have radically different reproductive abilities that all phase out once that queen reaches maturity and starts laying eggs?
Well two parts to that...one who says it can't keep puking...and second its an alien? the point is to make u beliave the unbelaviable
The Alien films which show an adult queen show that it can't keep reproducing by puking, as it was never done in that case. (Don't argue that it could have but was never seen doing it, as that is arbitary and unecessary retroactive insertion of a newly concocted bullshit theory into an already closed reproductive cycle, that didn't require further elaboration or expansion of any kind)
Just because something is an alien, and its a sci-fi film, doesn't mean it can do anything at all no matter how unbelievable. An alien shouldn't be able to fly, or melt someone just by hissing at him..etc., The things they do have already been established, its too late in the game so to speak to make up new shit for them in hindsight. (especially without it contradicting the other films)
I agree with Schaefer - the puking does not contradict dna reflex theory. Even the directors agree on this. And yes, they are alien, they will reproduce in any way they can. Some people only want simple bugs. I like the aliens to be more complex - ever changing and ever adapting (within reason of course - I can accept flying aliens but nothing magical like melting someone by hissing at them lol).
This is what happened, they wanted to continue the AvP R from what happened in the events at the end of AvP. Problem with that is you have a lone Pred Alien. Now the movie makers are thinking how can we get a crap load of aliens from one predalien. I know, let's make it a queen!! But since we are making a new creature, we can do whatever the hell we want with it right? So they make a new creature that can reproduce by puking. More aliens or more preds dones not equal better movie!!!! When will they learn this. Predator- 1 pred Predator 2- 1 major pred shrown through movie, Alien-1 Alien, Aliens- We see more but the real star becomes Queen, Alien 3-One main Alien. IMO Alien Resurrection and AvP tried to hard by throwing as many Aliens and preds as they could at us. Eventually you lose the mystery and mystique of the creatures.
Instead they should have had just the predalien leave out all of the wussy drones they put in just so Wolf can kill them and have an epic hunt between Chet and Wolf with humans getting in the way occaisionally.
Quote from: gameoverman on Nov 11, 2007, 09:44:51 AM
I agree with Schaefer - the puking does not contradict dna reflex theory.
Everyone makes it out like the Predalien is just going to projectile barf onto the hosts face.
It doesn't.
It basically has a face hugger for a face. It leans in close and wraps it's mandibles around the hosts face, sliding it's tongue down the hosts throat, where it places the embryo.
I think that sounds great. Really disturbing image.
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 11, 2007, 05:16:55 PM
Quote from: gameoverman on Nov 11, 2007, 09:44:51 AM
I agree with Schaefer - the puking does not contradict dna reflex theory.
Everyone makes it out like the Predalien is just going to projectile barf onto the hosts face.
It doesn't.
It basically has a face hugger for a face. It leans in close and wraps it's mandibles around the hosts face, sliding it's tongue down the hosts throat, where it places the embryo.
I think that sounds great. Really disturbing image.
Agreed. Basically, it does the work of a facehugger, which would sound like a last resort option to get some Aliens to protect the queen.
Most of us aren't even qualified to make a sound theory for how this works.
The closesnt person on this site to an Alien biologist is Anchorpoint.
I think its gonna look great and its not something extremely insane, its not making an alien come out of someones ass...(Sorry Mr. King...)
Quote from: Flaming Firefox on Nov 11, 2007, 03:17:46 PM
This is what happened, they wanted to continue the AvP R from what happened in the events at the end of AvP. Problem with that is you have a lone Pred Alien. Now the movie makers are thinking how can we get a crap load of aliens from one predalien. I know, let's make it a queen!! But since we are making a new creature, we can do whatever the hell we want with it right? So they make a new creature that can reproduce by puking. More aliens or more preds dones not equal better movie!!!! When will they learn this. Predator- 1 pred Predator 2- 1 major pred shrown through movie, Alien-1 Alien, Aliens- We see more but the real star becomes Queen, Alien 3-One main Alien. IMO Alien Resurrection and AvP tried to hard by throwing as many Aliens and preds as they could at us. Eventually you lose the mystery and mystique of the creatures.
Instead they should have had just the predalien leave out all of the wussy drones they put in just so Wolf can kill them and have an epic hunt between Chet and Wolf with humans getting in the way occaisionally.
Totally agree if there was a few facehuggers on the ship and the predalien i think that would make for a better movie with only half a dozen aliens or less for the pred to hunt down with chet and occasional battles with police or the army.
Quote from: Alienseseses on Nov 11, 2007, 07:01:21 PM
Most of us aren't even qualified to make a sound theory for how this works.
The closesnt person on this site to an Alien biologist is Anchorpoint.
It literally works how I said it did.
I haven't seen a single post from Colin confirming such a thing.
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Nov 11, 2007, 07:15:34 PM
I haven't seen a single post from Colin confirming such a thing.
He didn't say the puked all over some's face either....
In the beginning i thought the new reproduction method sucked but after hearing about the implantation down the throat and the mandibles acting as a facehugger it does make sense and i think it's a pretty sound theory.
Quote from: justaguy on Nov 11, 2007, 07:19:54 PM
In the beginning i thought the new reproduction method sucked but after hearing about the implantation down the throat and the mandibles acting as a facehugger it does make sense and i think it's a pretty sound theory.
that's how i always pictured it so i always liked it now....if he does just go all pukey on their face it'll be pretty mad
He hasn't really said anything outside of the shot where we see this and that it will be "dark." I'm just pointing out that no mention has been made either way of mandibles being used or projectile vomiting, just that it regurgitates into people's mouths. From the picture cited, it's not done at long range (which doesn't rule out that it might) and the mandibles aren't used (which isn't to say it doesn't). At this point, all we know is where it happens initially, that it regurgitates into people's mouths, and that it'll be "dark." We shouldn't impose theories as fact at this point.
Yeah thats disturbing, the mandibles as a facehugger legs. I think its really creative.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 07:21:39 PM
Quote from: justaguy on Nov 11, 2007, 07:19:54 PM
In the beginning i thought the new reproduction method sucked but after hearing about the implantation down the throat and the mandibles acting as a facehugger it does make sense and i think it's a pretty sound theory.
that's how i always pictured it so i always liked it now....if he does just go all pukey on their face it'll be pretty mad
Exactly i guess i just didn't give the method enough time and understanding to judge it properly and i can't wait to see it on screen.
I Think one problem with fans are they picture the superpuker theroy and don't even think it could be something other than what they have pictured,,,i think if the mandibles are used and they go facehugger on people's faces people will like it more
I agree to be fair it's a very inventive, original theory and if it's fully explained would be more liked. People think Queen and hives with egg sacks being fat and lazy but if there's no way of gathering hosts it makes sense the Queen has to have an active role in reproducing.
It is pretty obvious that they turned the predalien into a giant facehugger. No-one needs to explain how it works. If they halfway decently rational it in the story, it may work. I'm guessing though there won't be anything that addreses the change.
QuoteI agree to be fair it's a very inventive, original theory and if it's fully explained would be more liked. People think Queen and hives with egg sacks being fat and lazy but if there's no way of gathering hosts it makes sense the Queen has to have an active role in reproducing.
Your theory about this breaks down when you see in the movies the queen can break away from the egg sack and move around, which means she could go anywhere she wants to find hosts. Her speed is shown in the movies and proves that she is only fat and lazy when laying eggs. Even the molting everyone claims is possible is disputed by Alien 3 which showed an a distinct queen embryo that is seperate and unique from other Alien chestbursters.
one way to get a Queen is not very adaptive
aliens molt if theres no queen around, so there r natural queens, but if theres not a queen around a drone will molt. and the reason the queens dont run around impretnating herself is eggs can be dispersed and multipul eggs can be impregnating multipul hosts at the same time, the queen can only impregnate 1 at a time, PLUS, impregnating hosts would put the queen in a dangerous situation(y risk impregnating a pred when u could just throw 50 facehuggers at it).
Quote from: megachu17 on Nov 11, 2007, 09:18:15 PM
aliens molt if theres no queen around, so there r natural queens, but if theres not a queen around a drone will molt. and the reason the queens dont run around impretnating herself is eggs can be dispersed and multipul eggs can be impregnating multipul hosts at the same time, the queen can only impregnate 1 at a time, PLUS, impregnating hosts would put the queen in a dangerous situation(y risk impregnating a pred when u could just throw 50 facehuggers at it).
Good point about the facehuggers they = cheap cannon fodder that you can throw at hosts instead of risking queen's death. Plus they are quicker, smaller and harder to spot, and stop. One predalien queen regaurdless of strength is easier to stop from facehugging you than a dozen facehuggers, one is going to get you eventually especially if they swarm. If all else fails it would probably be easier to elude and hide from a bulky predalien queen.
Again on the molting thing, when have we seen a regular Alien molt into a queen in the movies??? We haven't. Therefore it isn't canon. It is just something the games and expanded universe have used.
Quote from: Plokoon111 on Nov 11, 2007, 07:23:28 PM
Yeah thats disturbing, the mandibles as a facehugger legs. I think its really creative.
no, it is really stupid 'cause it inherit the mandibles from the predator
if i must see this thing too, besides all the rest, i walk out from the theatre, i swear it
Some people lauding the mandibles should do well to remember that this isn't something the PredAlien does arbitrarily. What the Strause's are trying to say is that young Queens all go through this cycle. Thus, the necessity of mandibles is rendered moot. You might as well say that the young Queens before and after this one were deformed for not having mandibles to restrain the host with, which is certainly not the case.
The manidbles are like are addition to help a nromal alien could use its hands
I agree that using the predator mandibles in order to hold a host's head is a really convieniently cheap move.
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Nov 11, 2007, 10:09:40 PM
I agree that using the predator mandibles in order to hold a host's head is a really convieniently cheap move.
cheap, but can work good and it'd be a first time its been done
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 10:11:44 PM
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Nov 11, 2007, 10:09:40 PM
I agree that using the predator mandibles in order to hold a host's head is a really convieniently cheap move.
cheap, but can work good and it'd be a first time its been done
Are you sure Colin and Greg aren't mailing you checks? :D
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Nov 11, 2007, 10:14:39 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 10:11:44 PM
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Nov 11, 2007, 10:09:40 PM
I agree that using the predator mandibles in order to hold a host's head is a really convieniently cheap move.
cheap, but can work good and it'd be a first time its been done
Are you sure Colin and Greg aren't mailing you checks? :D
who told you about that?
I think it could look good though
Holding with the mandibles makes little sense. Those tusks are huge and look razor sharp. If that thing came anywhere near me I'd practically have a fit and I'd be thrashing around doing whatever I could to get away from it, if it tried to grab my head with the mandibles I'd probably end up tearing my own face off in the struggle. Dispite how retardedly huge the predalien hands are, they're 100 X more effective for grasping and restraining.
omit the stupidity of the thing in general, with the risk to kill the host in the process...or anyway put a risk of serious lesions
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Nov 11, 2007, 07:15:34 PM
I haven't seen a single post from Colin confirming such a thing.
One of the writers revising the Salerno version of the script said it was written like that. So I'd imagine that's how it was filmed.
Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Nov 11, 2007, 10:16:52 PM
Holding with the mandibles makes little sense. Those tusks are huge and look razor sharp. If that thing came anywhere near me I'd practically have a fit and I'd be thrashing around doing whatever I could to get away from it, if it tried to grab my head with the mandibles I'd probably end up tearing my own face off in the struggle. Dispite how retardedly huge the predalien hands are, they're 100 X more effective for grasping and restraining.
exatly wath i think...
Quote from: darkfaerytales on Nov 11, 2007, 10:20:03 PM
Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Nov 11, 2007, 10:16:52 PM
Holding with the mandibles makes little sense. Those tusks are huge and look razor sharp. If that thing came anywhere near me I'd practically have a fit and I'd be thrashing around doing whatever I could to get away from it, if it tried to grab my head with the mandibles I'd probably end up tearing my own face off in the struggle. Dispite how retardedly huge the predalien hands are, they're 100 X more effective for grasping and restraining.
exatly wath i think...
I'm sure the alien really worries about the hosts head condition after implantaition....
If the aliens didn't care about the host they wouldn't bother keeping them alive. If the aliens didn't care about their hosts, the alien from the 3rd movie would have said "f**k keeping this bitch alive, I'll just kill her and molt into a queen myself". Once again common sense slips from your grasp. =/
Holding a host's head with them makes sense but it seems to imply that a drone who punched out of anything other than a predator and then decided to molt into a queen (man, this is getting pretty far-strung) would have a big disadvantage when it came to performing this new reproductive technique. It almost implies that they are necessary.
Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Nov 11, 2007, 10:23:54 PM
If the aliens didn't care about the host they wouldn't bother keeping them alive. If the aliens didn't care about their hosts, the alien from the 3rd movie would have said "f**k keeping this bitch alive, I'll just kill her and molt into a queen myself". Once again common sense slips from your grasp. =/
read my post not a summary version...
I said their head, facehuggers left marks on Kane's face they probablya do the same thing to whoever they impregnante
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 11, 2007, 04:55:39 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 04:49:58 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 11, 2007, 04:48:20 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 04:44:14 AM
Honestly if the Queen had been in this i might have sighed saying "Not agian...." i love the old girl but i don't want her to become boreing, and this at least helps keep the Queen unboring
well you still have a queen albeit a young predalien queen. So by that logic you should find her boring. Really defeats the purpose of using the argument that the queen has been done to death, if you make the predalien a queen. So the host the queen comes from, makes it more or less of queen? i don't think so.
Well its a Queen but a young Predalien molting into one which we haven't seen so i won't be bored by that...
except for the fact that, that makes no f**king sense. The directors and/or shane salerno should have known that you can't just make shit up that defies established canon just for the sake of being different and showing stuff that's never been seen before. There's a reason there has been 5 films featuring the aliens without resorting to that, because it f**ks up continuity and everything established about the aliens.
Even though the AVP movies are prequels to the Alien movies, and sequels to the Predator movies, there's still room to show us some things we havn't seen before. It makes sense that an alien species that thrives on reproduction through hosts would have an alternative method to do so, if the situation calls for it.
guys phalanx like thin long limbs and huge razor fangs were not exatly the same things...
Quote from: TheAncientEnemy on Nov 11, 2007, 10:24:50 PM
Holding a host's head with them makes sense but it seems to imply that a drone who punched out of anything other than a predator and then decided to molt into a queen (man, this is getting pretty far-strung) would have a big disadvantage when it came to performing this new reproductive technique. It almost implies that they are necessary.
Not really. It could just use it's claws to hold the host's head still.
It's funny how the Alien life cycle is now a joke, yet people still consider comments like "maybe the Predator reproduces through regurgitation" as this big affront to the Predator's credibility.
Seriously look at those tusks then try and tell me that if they attepted to restrain a struggling victim, they wouldn't do some serious trauma. If a facehugger is strong enough to "tear your face off with it" then think of the damage those mandibles could do.
I could get a kinfe and put it on my head and hold it there without cutting my head open...ik think its smart enough not to kill the host
Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Nov 11, 2007, 10:32:43 PM
Seriously look at those tusks then try and tell me that if they attepted to restrain a struggling victim, they wouldn't do some serious trauma. If a facehugger is strong enough to "tear your face off with it" then think of the damage those mandibles could do.
I'm sure the Predalien's smart enough to direct the pointed ends away from the flesh.
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 11, 2007, 05:16:55 PM
Quote from: gameoverman on Nov 11, 2007, 09:44:51 AM
I agree with Schaefer - the puking does not contradict dna reflex theory.
Everyone makes it out like the Predalien is just going to projectile barf onto the hosts face.
It doesn't.
It basically has a face hugger for a face. It leans in close and wraps it's mandibles around the hosts face, sliding it's tongue down the hosts throat, where it places the embryo.
I think that sounds great. Really disturbing image.
I agree. It will shock the hell out the audience in the way that the Kane chestburster scene did for people when they first saw "Aliens".
Honestly are you just being stupid on purpose?
The predalien would need to apply force in order to restrain. Guess what happens when you apply restraining force to that knife on your head? I don't want to spoil it for you, go and try it now and tell us all how it worked out for you.
QuoteI'm sure the Predalien's smart enough to direct the pointed ends away from the flesh.
Then it doesn't really have a lot to grip with does it, plus they are so far apart it doesn't even look like it could close them enough to grip anything.
maybe someone should be only get a bit refresh by that (http://avp2ks-197)
do you notice just the mouth ( noth the mandibles only the " regularl " mouth ) how big are, nearly the entire facial region of that girl
?????
U can control how much force u put on something...or are you to overcofident to notice that?
ops sorry...i'ved make a mistake maybe, the pics don't see anyway everyone of you can go to take a look on the still of the predalien in front of the girl on the bed in ospital for get a refresh on the idea...
Quote from: Wolf Sazen on Nov 11, 2007, 10:36:17 PM
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 11, 2007, 05:16:55 PM
Quote from: gameoverman on Nov 11, 2007, 09:44:51 AM
I agree with Schaefer - the puking does not contradict dna reflex theory.
Everyone makes it out like the Predalien is just going to projectile barf onto the hosts face.
It doesn't.
It basically has a face hugger for a face. It leans in close and wraps it's mandibles around the hosts face, sliding it's tongue down the hosts throat, where it places the embryo.
I think that sounds great. Really disturbing image.
I agree. It will shock the hell out the audience in the way that the Kane chestburster scene did for people when they first saw "Aliens".
I think that in the 30 years since that scene has taken place people have gotten used to that kind of imagery.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 10:33:36 PM
I could get a kinfe and put it on my head and hold it there without cutting my head open...ik think its smart enough not to kill the host
...so you can do that ok, like evryone can...but if someone push your head agaist the knife , your flesh don't get riped apart?
the concept seems so simple, is not a problem of the predalien but of the prey, what so difficoult for understand that...i don't know
Quote from: darkfaerytales on Nov 11, 2007, 10:53:47 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 10:33:36 PM
I could get a kinfe and put it on my head and hold it there without cutting my head open...ik think its smart enough not to kill the host
...so you can do that ok, like evryone can...but if someone push your head agaist the knife , your flesh don't get riped apart?
the concept seems so simple, is not a problem of the predalien but of the prey, what so difficoult for understand that...i don't know
english...such a simple concept as well, i think a Predalien could figure out "if i press this hard theis will hurt them."
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 10:56:39 PM
Quote from: darkfaerytales on Nov 11, 2007, 10:53:47 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 10:33:36 PM
I could get a kinfe and put it on my head and hold it there without cutting my head open...ik think its smart enough not to kill the host
...so you can do that ok, like evryone can...but if someone push your head agaist the knife , your flesh don't get riped apart?
the concept seems so simple, is not a problem of the predalien but of the prey, what so difficoult for understand that...i don't know
english...such a simple concept as well, i think a Predalien could figure out "if i press this hard theis will hurt them."
excuse me but maybe i don't have understand...but what with " english " ? i'm sorry if it is inherent of my english cause it certainly should be wrong sometimes cause i'm not from usa
Quotethink a Predalien could figure out "if i press this hard theis will hurt them."
...and if the host is moving around a lot? The only excuse I can think of is that every victim will be "paralysed" with fear or already cocooned... in which case the mandibles are a moot point anyway. Anyone reacting violently, screaming, thrashing around are going to injure themselves on the mandibles. More thrashing around = more pressure required to restrain. More restraint = more damage.
Quoteenglish...such a simple concept as well
Pot, meet kettle...
Quote from: Sh0dan on Nov 11, 2007, 02:58:33 AM
I wouldn't put any new reproduction idea in. Because it doesn't need it if the bloody story is good. ;D
This, right here, is what people should remember. If the story can't be bothered to use what's
already there in a decent way, then just tossing in random new stuff is pointless.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 05:09:15 AM
IT'S AN ALIEN!!!!
With precedented limitations. :)
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 11, 2007, 05:16:55 PM
I think that sounds great. Really disturbing image.
I like the concept, too. I just don't agree it fits with the Aliens' biology.
It
could have done, before '
Alien 3', but we're beyond that.
Quote from: Plokoon111 on Nov 11, 2007, 07:23:28 PM
Yeah thats disturbing, the mandibles as a facehugger legs. I think its really creative.
If it does that, it happens to mean any Alien without mandibles wouldn't be able to do so.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 09:16:04 PM
one way to get a Queen is not very adaptive
There wasn't. There were two. Natural facehuggers and those from egg transformation. Why need a third?
Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Nov 11, 2007, 10:16:52 PM
Holding with the mandibles makes little sense. Those tusks are huge and look razor sharp. If that thing came anywhere near me I'd practically have a fit and I'd be thrashing around doing whatever I could to get away from it, if it tried to grab my head with the mandibles I'd probably end up tearing my own face off in the struggle. Dispite how retardedly huge the predalien hands are, they're 100 X more effective for grasping and restraining.
This is the other main problem I have with it. The things don't look practical for the task,
precisely because of how ADI crapped up the design by making the things seperate from the main jaws, when they should have been a single, cohesive mechanism. If they were closer together, they would have been a lot more practical.
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 11, 2007, 10:19:14 PM
One of the writers revising the Salerno version of the script said it was written like that. So I'd imagine that's how it was filmed.
I haven't seen any information from writers who revised the script. Where was this shown?
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 11, 2007, 11:05:45 PM
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 11, 2007, 10:19:14 PM
One of the writers revising the Salerno version of the script said it was written like that. So I'd imagine that's how it was filmed.
I haven't seen any information from writers who revised the script. Where was this shown?
PM me if you wan't to know.
They have arms to i doubt it'll just let its arms flap down to it's side and let them thrash
Most people don't know about eggmorphing...
They didn't say it couldn't happen, preset guidleines more than limits
Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Nov 11, 2007, 11:04:54 PM
Quotethink a Predalien could figure out "if i press this hard theis will hurt them."
...and if the host is moving around a lot? The only excuse I can think of is that every victim will be "paralysed" with fear or already cocooned... in which case the mandibles are a moot point anyway. Anyone reacting violently, screaming, thrashing around are going to injure themselves on the mandibles. More thrashing around = more pressure required to restrain. More restraint = more damage.
exatly...but what people have so complicated in understand that...
The pred mandibles aren't built at the right angles to hold a human face as well as a facehugger's and the pointed teeth don't help. The predalien mandilble are vertical, therefore they can't wrap around the face like the horizontally oriented facehugger legs. Remember not only is a facehugger like having two hands wrapped around your face it also wraps a tail around your neck an extremely excellent immobilizing design. Nowhere on it does it have anythng that will damage the host like claws or teeth, it even has built in breathing apparatus for host to keep you alive, so you can't tell me the predalien is more efficient at delivering an embryo. >:(
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 11, 2007, 05:16:55 PM
Quote from: gameoverman on Nov 11, 2007, 09:44:51 AM
I agree with Schaefer - the puking does not contradict dna reflex theory.
Everyone makes it out like the Predalien is just going to projectile barf onto the hosts face.
It doesn't.
It basically has a face hugger for a face. It leans in close and wraps it's mandibles around the hosts face, sliding it's tongue down the hosts throat, where it places the embryo.
I think that sounds great. Really disturbing image.
If that made any f**king sense, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But the idea of the predalien having chestburster embryos in its body that it can regurgitate(as if its ovaries and digestive track are linked. lol), is laughable and downright stupid.
It does indeed contradict canon, as in Alien:Resurrection, The queen's growth from chestburster all the way to full grown queen that lays eggs was documented, regardless of if it was seen on screen or not, you know it to be the case as they knew when she would begin laying eggs.
So if there was a phase prior where chestburster embryos were able to be detected within her, they would have threw one of the kidnapped nickel refinery workers(purvis and crew), into the cage with the young queen and would have witnessed her vomit in him to reproduce. Either that or they would have restrained/sedated the queen and extracted the embyros somehow. If they could get embryos they could get cloning them as opposed to needing life hosts to have the eggs get laid first and then have facehuggers implant the embryos in them.
So the idea that a young queen has chestburster embryos independent of any facehugger, is really absurd. Its arbitary as f**k.
Exept she started laying eggs before the hosts got there....
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 11:08:13 PM
They have arms to i doubt it'll just let its arms flap down to it's side and let them thrash
Then it might as well use them for that. :)
QuoteMost people don't know about eggmorphing...
No, but the directors and most of us do. There's nothing stopping them from revisiting the idea and introducing it to those who don't.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 11, 2007, 11:44:19 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 11:08:13 PM
They have arms to i doubt it'll just let its arms flap down to it's side and let them thrash
Then it might as well use them for that. :)
QuoteMost people don't know about eggmorphing...
No, but the directors and most of us do. There's nothing stopping them from revisiting the idea and introducing it to those who don't.
eggmorphing might come back eventually but it wouldn't have worked in this sitation to long...and from sounds of it budget could have
arms hold host, mandibles hold head* sounds good to me...
QuoteIt will shock the hell out the audience in the way that the Kane chestburster scene did for people when they first saw "Aliens".
And if it doesn't at least the audience will have a good laugh.
The folks on the Auriga knew about the creature's existence, but they seemed to have thoroughly analyzed the life cycle (which is hard to have previously known about, given that even Burke seemed completely clueless of the Queen's existence as much as Bishop II and co. probably weren't aware of the fact that Ripley was carrying a Queen embryo). If there was a way to have collected more specimens such as letting the young Queen walk around the sealed room and impregnate all of the captives, they would probably would have done it. Gediman mentions that the Queen only had 2 cycles, one of which was unnatural.
Like I've said before, this creates a plothole for anyone who has seen A3 or A:R to give the Predator more to hunt at a faster pace.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 10:20:54 PM
Quote from: darkfaerytales on Nov 11, 2007, 10:20:03 PM
Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Nov 11, 2007, 10:16:52 PM
Holding with the mandibles makes little sense. Those tusks are huge and look razor sharp. If that thing came anywhere near me I'd practically have a fit and I'd be thrashing around doing whatever I could to get away from it, if it tried to grab my head with the mandibles I'd probably end up tearing my own face off in the struggle. Dispite how retardedly huge the predalien hands are, they're 100 X more effective for grasping and restraining.
exatly wath i think...
I'm sure the alien really worries about the hosts head condition after implantaition....
what? of course it does, for gestation to occur the host has to be alive for at least hours after initial implantation. The only way a dead host would not kill the alien, is if its almost ready to burst out anyway.
But early on in the development it relies on the host to survive and killing the host will kill the developing embryo. So this being the case, and the predalien being a queen, which would strive to reproduce, would not want to risk the death of its potential brood via sloppy mandible clutching through someone's eye..etc.
their head so i meant they wouldn't care if they scrachted it a little not not careing about the host at all
...The Alien in the third film originally came out of an ox that was very dead for quite some time.
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Nov 11, 2007, 11:51:48 PM
...The Alien in the third film originally came out of an ox that was very dead for quite some time.
yes, but presumably it had developed almost fully. In fact you see it has legs and a tail and everything when it burst out. So its not like the ox was killed an hour after the facehugger went on it. It is never shown attacked by the facehugger.
scar wasn't dead that long in the first avp either.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 11:46:31 PM
eggmorphing might come back eventually but it wouldn't have worked in this sitation to long...and from sounds of it budget could have
It only takes a small number of hours. The story could have easily leapt forward a little in time. We never literally stuck around for the entire length of Kane's progress, after all. :) Same principle.
It all stinks of revisiting the accelerated gestation thing again. I said a while ago that if the only point of this is to get loads of Aliens in a short amount of time, we're going to have to see implants reaching 'Alienhood' in under half an hour.
Quotearms hold host, mandibles hold head* sounds good to me...
They could also hold the head. :)
I guess all that matters is that the host is alive for a period of time from the embryo to grow inside, the host can die before the alien comes out.(alien 3 ox, Sebastian in avp)
Well, the eggmorphing requires double the hosts and time defantly...
and second if you have manidbles use it, it'd look better than not using them...with a normal alien sure use the arms like that
Quote from: Hybrid PM on Nov 11, 2007, 11:57:29 PM
I guess all that matters is that the host is alive for a period of time from the embryo to grow inside, the host can die before the alien comes out.(alien 3 ox, Sebastian in avp)
I just said that, basically. But you can't kill the host early on in the chestburster's development or it will die.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 11:59:02 PM
Well, the eggmorphing requires double the hosts and time defantly...
If it's purely to get a Queen, you only need two hosts once.
And we'll be seeing a
lot more than just two people drying from the reproduction thing in this film. :)
As for time, it might have taken about the same the facehugger did to implant Kane successfully.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 11, 2007, 11:59:19 PM
Quote from: Hybrid PM on Nov 11, 2007, 11:57:29 PM
I guess all that matters is that the host is alive for a period of time from the embryo to grow inside, the host can die before the alien comes out.(alien 3 ox, Sebastian in avp)
I just said that, basically. But you can't kill the host early on in the chestburster's development or it will die.
Yep agreed!!!
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 12, 2007, 12:03:19 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 11:59:02 PM
Well, the eggmorphing requires double the hosts and time defantly...
If it's purely to get a Queen, you only need two hosts once.
And we'll be seeing a lot more than just two people drying from the reproduction thing in this film. :)
As for time, it might have taken about the same the facehugger did to implant Kane successfully.
Time wise...You'd have to get a host, eggmorph them, wait to get another host, facehugg them...that'd take time lol...and the other parts no complaint all good point
And why would that take a long time - especially when you have a smorgasbord of hosts.
Egg morphing probably takes around 4 hours. Host is hugged, then awakens about 10-12 hours later and completely unaware of what they're carrying.
Quote from: SM on Nov 12, 2007, 12:09:44 AM
And why would that take a long time - especially when you have a smorgasbord of hosts.
Egg morphing probably takes around 4 hours. Host is hugged, then awakens about 10-12 hours later and completely unaware of what they're carrying.
That's alot of time when u have to make a alien force to fight the Wolf...
The fact that they've even concocted the moronic idea that an Alien army is needed to fight a Predator speaks volumes. Once again it all comes back to creating solutions - that break established rules - for problems that never existed in the first place.
Quote from: SM on Nov 12, 2007, 12:18:11 AM
The fact that they've even concocted the moronic idea that an Alien army is needed to fight a Predator speaks volumes. Once again it all comes back to creating solutions - that break established rules - for problems that never existed in the first place.
Well, a Queen and one ot three Aliens against a plasma caster....
second is National Guard and other people finding trying to kill them
If they'd just gone by the rules - the rule that says "Queens lay eggs" - she have an army of facehuggers to take out Wolf or clueless national guardsman. And if she gets shot - she gets shot. Too bad so sad. Wouldn't make much of a film, but their job is find solutions to those sorts of things. Not make shit up.
Instead they ditch huggers for... YES!!! f**kING BARFING!!!! AWESOMALITYNESS!!!!!!!
Better movie> better canon that's me personaly...i want canon but a addtion to it doesn't upset no matter how borderline noncanon it is
Quote from: SM on Nov 12, 2007, 12:09:44 AM
And why would that take a long time - especially when you have a smorgasbord of hosts.
Egg morphing probably takes around 4 hours. Host is hugged, then awakens about 10-12 hours later and completely unaware of what they're carrying.
well according to the anchorpoint essays:
"The time frame that is needed to completely alter a host organism to be a viable parasite-bearing egg is estimated between 24 and 36 hours."
read the full egg-morph page here:
http://www.anchorpointessays.com/stage3.html#eggs
And no im not arguing for this new reproductive cycle. lol.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 12, 2007, 12:12:17 AM
That's alot of time when u have to make a alien force to fight the Wolf...
Then wind time forward during the first act, to take account of it. It isn't as if the Predalien is fitted with some sort of homing beacon and even if it were, anything it happens to reproduce won't do. The Predator wouldn't know where to look.
As it is, the Predalien is leading the Predator to it, by creating all this carnage.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 11, 2007, 11:37:07 PM
Exept she started laying eggs before the hosts got there....
Your point is? So she lays eggs before hosts are available.
Ticks need the blood of hosts to survive yet they exist in an egg state at a time.
Quotewell according to the anchorpoint essays:
"The time frame that is needed to completely alter a host organism to be a viable parasite-bearing egg is estimated between 24 and 36 hours."
I know Mike and have read Anchorpoint. This however, is speculatory (like most of Anchorpoint) and - based on the Brett egg - incorrect.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 12, 2007, 12:31:33 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 12, 2007, 12:12:17 AM
That's alot of time when u have to make a alien force to fight the Wolf...
Then wind time forward during the first act, to take account of it. It isn't as if the Predalien is fitted with some sort of homing beacon and even if it were, anything it happens to reproduce won't do. The Predator wouldn't know where to look.
As it is, the Predalien is leading the Predator to it, by creating all this carnage.
Caranage is what people want (auidence)...and its been talked about in Alien films for years....it'll be nice to see, and a giant crash site narrows the search....
Firefox, aliens are not ticks...if u want them to be bug like and simple don't complain about them being bulike and simple...
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 12, 2007, 12:31:33 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 12, 2007, 12:12:17 AM
That's alot of time when u have to make a alien force to fight the Wolf...
Then wind time forward during the first act, to take account of it. It isn't as if the Predalien is fitted with some sort of homing beacon and even if it were, anything it happens to reproduce won't do. The Predator wouldn't know where to look.
As it is, the Predalien is leading the Predator to it, by creating all this carnage.
ooooooo, I like it that was what I was hoping for. It is almost a dectective story, a cautious pred tracks the slain bodies of human victims only to find he is the one being hunted by the pred-alien! very suspensful. Genius
And once again - pretty dumb when you consider what's gone before.
Looks like subtlely gets thrown out the window with everything else...
I have to admit i think i'd be awesome to watch a Predator try and track a Predalien....that could be really good
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 12, 2007, 12:35:18 AM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 12, 2007, 12:31:33 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 12, 2007, 12:12:17 AM
That's alot of time when u have to make a alien force to fight the Wolf...
Then wind time forward during the first act, to take account of it. It isn't as if the Predalien is fitted with some sort of homing beacon and even if it were, anything it happens to reproduce won't do. The Predator wouldn't know where to look.
As it is, the Predalien is leading the Predator to it, by creating all this carnage.
Caranage is what people want (auidence)...and its been talked about in Alien films for years....it'll be nice to see, and a giant crash site narrows the search....
Firefox, aliens are not ticks...if u want them to be bug like and simple don't complain about them being bulike and simple...
Do you know what a metaphor is? Ticks are a metaphor for the paristical nature of Aliens. Don't read into it anymore than that. All I'm saying is that in general parasitic creatures are born and have a life before finding a host.
alright i know that but lots of other people do the double fight of..."Don't change anything, Don't make them bug like..." adding would make them less bug like
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 12, 2007, 12:40:45 AM
alright i know that but lots of other people do the double fight of..."Don't change anything, Don't make them bug like..." adding would make them less bug like
ok so your saying don't make them more bug like right? I'm confused now! lol :P
Quote from: Flaming Firefox on Nov 12, 2007, 12:43:14 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 12, 2007, 12:40:45 AM
alright i know that but lots of other people do the double fight of..."Don't change anything, Don't make them bug like..." adding would make them less bug like
ok so your saying don't make them more bug like right? I'm confused now! lol :P
No what i'm saying is people don't want them buglike....or want anything added...but if you add soemthing it'd make them less like bugs...understand?
Flaming Firefox - stop now. Save yourself before it's too late.
Camerons Queen approach was the best thing to happen to the reproductive process for aliens imo. Otherwise like Major suggests, you can just float away with the concepts.
Quote from: Anomaly on Nov 12, 2007, 12:48:59 AM
Camerons Queen approach was the best thing to happen to the reproductive process for aliens imo.
I agree....can't take the Heat SM?
Quote from: SM on Nov 12, 2007, 12:46:23 AM
Flaming Firefox - stop now. Save yourself before it's too late.
It's too late :D
No seriously I'm not making a case to make them more buglike! Forget the bugs, jeeze.
I'm just saying have some respect for the established canon. If you go Schaefer reasoning the film-makers should be able to give Aliens a second head, howabout a second tail for impaling people, could be useful! Whatever they need to make them more deadly lets slap it on there!
We've seen an alien body we know that's not the case, we haven't seen a young Queen or a molting one....second i was simply saying that some people agrue like that
Quotecan't take the Heat SM?
No, just didn't want to watch someone yet again struggling against futility.
Quote from: SM on Nov 12, 2007, 01:11:43 AM
Quotecan't take the Heat SM?
No, just didn't want to watch someone yet again struggling against futility.
What because its possible to atually expet a new idea? and if they want to who are you to stop them
QuoteWhat because its possible to atually expet a new idea?
No, because it's impossible to decipher what passes for English in the vast majority of your posts.
Quote from: SM on Nov 12, 2007, 01:17:28 AM
QuoteWhat because its possible to atually expet a new idea?
No, because it's impossible to decipher what passes for English in the vast majority of your posts.
Learn to read?
Hooked on Phonics man...
anyway, i try to type cleary if you can't understand it simply ask for expansion and i'll do my best
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 12, 2007, 12:44:20 AM
Quote from: Flaming Firefox on Nov 12, 2007, 12:43:14 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 12, 2007, 12:40:45 AM
alright i know that but lots of other people do the double fight of..."Don't change anything, Don't make them bug like..." adding would make them less bug like
ok so your saying don't make them more bug like right? I'm confused now! lol :P
No what i'm saying is people don't want them buglike....or want anything added...but if you add soemthing it'd make them less like bugs...understand?
So what if they have aspects which make them bug-like, it doesn't detract from the fact that they are lethal aliens. They aren't bugs just because they have some similarities. Adding new bullshit doesn't change the fact that they still have a hive and a queen..etc. so you cannot erase the notion that they are somewhat insect-like while at the same time not being able to be classified as giant insects from space.
But it does distance them from simple gain space bugs, like it or not that is true
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 12, 2007, 01:21:42 AM
But it does distance them from simple gain space bugs, like it or not that is true
no it doesn't, as you can't ignore the hive aspect, the drones serving the queen, queen laying eggs, exoskeleton ..etc. no matter how much more non-insect like shit you add to their behavior or functionality as a species.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 12, 2007, 12:35:18 AM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 12, 2007, 12:31:33 AM
Then wind time forward during the first act, to take account of it. It isn't as if the Predalien is fitted with some sort of homing beacon and even if it were, anything it happens to reproduce won't do. The Predator wouldn't know where to look.
As it is, the Predalien is leading the Predator to it, by creating all this carnage.
Caranage is what people want (auidence)...and its been talked about in Alien films for years....it'll be nice to see, and a giant crash site narrows the search....
What's been talked about in them for years?
A giant crash site in the woods wouldn't help to locate the Predalien in the town. If it hides out to start laying eggs, there won't be any bodies to be tracking, either.
Not that there should be, regardless of whether it's going to transform into a Queen or anything else. There being no bodies left behind is what added to their mystique, in the earlier films.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 12, 2007, 12:58:49 AM
We've seen an alien body we know that's not the case, we haven't seen a young Queen or a molting one
We've seen a young Queen (exploding out of Ripley's chest and also on the Auriga) and if the Nostromo one was moulting, then according to this, it should also have been implanting, but wasn't.
If you now respond by saying, "It's an Alien!" You're contradicting what you just wrote: "We've seen [one and] we know that's not the case." :)
we've seen a chestburster....five seconds doesn't really count...the one in AR was locked up didn't have anyone to implant, how could they tell she was about to lay eggs? could have to do with this meathod ending... Well not talked about for years but Ripley never wanting them to get out and take over. this is showign what could happen.
Second the Nostromo alien could have done that to Lameburt and could have been planning to do it to Ripley
yep thats what i thought.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 12, 2007, 01:34:18 AM
we've seen a chestburster....five seconds doesn't really count...the one in AR was locked up didn't have anyone to implant, how could they tell she was about to lay eggs? could have to do with this meathod ending... Well not talked about for years but Ripley never wanting them to get out and take over. this is showign what could happen.
Second the Nostromo alien could have done that to Lameburt and could have been planning to do it to Ripley
Didn't have anyone to implant? So the captives kidnapped en-route to the nickel refinery, that were smuggled by the betty's crew to be used as hosts for the aliens don't count. Sorry I forgot about that. ::)
If the queen had a cycle where she had chestburster embryos, Gedimen and Dr. Wren would have known about it and sent one of the kidnapped guys in to see what happens and document the vomit reproduction cycle. But of course all scanning of her and documenting/studying her from behind the safety of the glass..etc. showed that she did not have another reproductive cycle before the egg laying one. It had been established and accepted that queens only reproduce via laying eggs.
But apparently no one told that to the makers of this film.
And clearly lambert's death had nothing to do with vomiting. You can see the blood running down her leg in the movie in that brief shot of her and parker after being killed by the alien.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 12, 2007, 01:34:18 AM
we've seen a chestburster....five seconds doesn't really count...the one in AR was locked up didn't have anyone to implant, how could they tell she was about to lay eggs?
We don't know, but they obviously must have run the right biological tests, as they stated they were able to predict not only that it would lay eggs, but when.
Any scientist with zero knowledge of what would happen and when would have simply put some laboratory animals in with it, to see what it might do with them. There was also Ripley 7 laying around doing nothing. She would have served perfectly well.
Quotecould have to do with this meathod ending... Well not talked about for years but Ripley never wanting them to get out and take over. this is showign what could happen.
Sure, but precisely the same result could have been achieved by simply moving time forward during the first act.
QuoteSecond the Nostromo alien could have done that to Lameburt and could have been planning to do it to Ripley
If it was capable, it would have done it with Brett/Dallas. By the time Ripley was setting the self-destruct, there would have been at least one other Alien running around the place.
Well the theroy i say is molting takes a while...probably why the PRedators on the ship don't get puked in, second...The Hosts in aR got there after she stated laying eggs, they probably wanted to just stay on the say side and wait for eggs its more nautal and probably works better
I realize the implantation cycle has a lot of panties in bunches, but please, for serenity's sake, stop using the A:R queen as a basis for normal development.
You might as well argue that human beings have a genetic memory, super strength, acidic blood, and mild telepathy. I mean shit, they Ripley 8 doing those things, right? Obviously it pertains to all Ripleys. That queen is a flawed specimen. I'm not saying the regurgitation method is completely kosher, but let's stop using the blended aliens in Resurrection as a foundation of xeno-truth.
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 12, 2007, 01:46:08 AM
Well the theroy i say is molting takes a while...probably why the PRedators on the ship don't get puked in, second...The Hosts in aR got there after she stated laying eggs, they probably wanted to just stay on the say side and wait for eggs its more nautal and probably works better
That doesn't make sense. Sure all aliens from chestburster to adult alien, but the queen molting is not quite as official and establlished you might say. Also considering that in a matter of mere hours a chestburster grows into a full-grown adult alien(minus the ridged head which it will later gain), why would a growing queen while molting into a full grown one, stagnate in any of the very, very brief transitional stages and also have a reproductive cycle in that stage?
All queens born as queens would just grow to adulthood like normal aliens. It might take a little longer, just as the gestation does but they shouldn't have transtitional phases that last for any extended duration of time. They would maybe take 4 hours to reach adulthood as opposed to one or two. And shortly after that they would lay eggs.
Now a warrior alien molting into a queen is a totally non-canonical idea. Talk about making them even more bug-like. Its an arbitary and unecessary insect-like attribute that there was no implication would ever take place. Alien 3 showing that queens are born as queen embryos, establishes how new queens come into being. You don't need like 10 different ways of producing a queen, and egg-morphing is the secondary one. That's enough.
Plus even if considered canon, why would the molting take longer in that case, wouldn't it not be the same speed in which an allien grows from one transitional phase to another regardless of if it started off as a queen or not?
Quote from: Tangent on Nov 12, 2007, 01:49:29 AM
I realize the implantation cycle has a lot of panties in bunches, but please, for serenity's sake, stop using the A:R queen as a basis for normal development.
You might as well argue that human beings have a genetic memory, super strength, acidic blood, and mild telepathy. I mean shit, they Ripley 8 doing those things, right? Obviously it pertains to all Ripleys. That queen is a flawed specimen. I'm not saying the regurgitation method is completely kosher, but let's stop using the blended aliens in Resurrection as a foundation of xeno-truth.
Oh i swear, that is lame. One more person tries to argue that " it was a queen affected by the crossover of human dna..blah..blah..blah.." I will reach through the monitor to your house and rip out your f**king heart. lol.
But seriously that is moot. The transfer of dna did not change the queen's instinctive behavior nor did it interfere with the normal egg-laying cycle or any thereotical ones prior to it. Therefore the vomiting cycle would have been there in that one, if queens indeed had such a phase.
Indeed.
The Resurrection is a perfectly acceptable point of reference up till the point she starts her second cycle.
I'd say it takes longer than that AR seemed it took a while longer than that, for a Queen to grow and start egglaying...also, if you molt you can go around making alot of hosts. eggmorphing about one or two by the time the new idea would have at least 10. this way is more direct....Alien to Host= New Alien after a certain amonut of time
Eggmorphing: Alien gets host makes it an egg...gets another host lets facehugger attach, wait for gestation
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 12, 2007, 01:46:08 AM
Well the theroy i say is molting takes a while...probably why the PRedators on the ship don't get puked in, second...The Hosts in aR got there after she stated laying eggs, they probably wanted to just stay on the say side and wait for eggs its more nautal and probably works better
The scientists would have had no way to know which would work better and, if this film is anything to go by, the result appears to be normal Aliens, in any case. :)
They stated what the first, most readily reproductive method was going to be and when it would fully kick into action. All the group cared about was getting the first creatures, as soon as possible.
Quote from: Tangent on Nov 12, 2007, 01:49:29 AM
I realize the implantation cycle has a lot of panties in bunches, but please, for serenity's sake, stop using the A:R queen as a basis for normal development.
You might as well argue that human beings have a genetic memory, super strength, acidic blood, and mild telepathy. I mean shit, they Ripley 8 doing those things, right? Obviously it pertains to all Ripleys. That queen is a flawed specimen. I'm not saying the regurgitation method is completely kosher, but let's stop using the blended aliens in Resurrection as a foundation of xeno-truth.
If anything, the human contamination should have
delayed the initial, natural cycle. It only really comes into play when it adds the next phase.
A: The makers of A L I E N have stated rather matter of factly that the eight passenger was doing NONE of those things.
B: The person in question is held fast by a HAND, not mandibles and the pics are right there. Two pics, fore and after, with hand squarely on head.
C: The A:R queen still doesn't puke embryos irrespective of the notion that it's a hybrid or not.
D: The original Alien wasn't molting into anything, and trying to retconn that on, especially in light of egg morphing makes you look STUPID.
E: If people don't like it, they don't like it. Trying to say IT IS TEH ALIEMS YOU DUN NOT KNOW NOTHING ABOUT TEH ALIEMS hasn't worked yet. here's a hint; it's not going to work next week either.
F: There's zero basis in MAGIC PRED HORMONES or anything else. It contradicts the flow of the Alien cycle, and quite literally makes the rest of the Aliens in the movie redundant.
G: The avpr aliens are ridgeheaded from the get go. Time has f**k all to do with it.
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 12, 2007, 02:31:38 AM
A: The makers of A L I E N have stated rather matter of factly that the eight passenger was doing NONE of those things.
B: The person in question is held fast by a HAND, not mandibles and the pics are right there. Two pics, fore and after, with hand squarely on head.
C: The A:R queen still doesn't puke embryos irrespective of the notion that it's a hybrid or not.
D: The original Alien wasn't molting into anything, and trying to retconn that on, especially in light of egg morphing makes you look STUPID.
E: If people don't like it, they don't like it. Trying to say IT IS TEH ALIEMS YOU DUN NOT KNOW NOTHING ABOUT TEH ALIEMS hasn't worked yet. here's a hint; it's not going to work next week either.
F: There's zero basis in MAGIC PRED HORMONES or anything else. It contradicts the flow of the Alien cycle, and quite literally makes the rest of the Aliens in the movie redundant.
G: The avpr aliens are ridgeheaded from the get go. Time has f**k all to do with it.
Forgot H: I amn always right
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 12, 2007, 02:31:38 AM
G: The avpr aliens are ridgeheaded from the get go. Time has f**k all to do with it.
Really? Then show me a picture of the AVP-R chestburster from Fangoria. Does it have ridges? No. Therefore, they're NOT ridge-head 'from the get go'.
Quote from: The Cleaner on Nov 12, 2007, 02:47:52 AM
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 12, 2007, 02:31:38 AM
G: The avpr aliens are ridgeheaded from the get go. Time has f**k all to do with it.
Really? Then show me a picture of the AVP-R chestburster from Fangoria. Does it have ridges? No. Therefore, they're NOT ridge-head 'from the get go'.
Ridges are supposed to be due to aliens that are older, not necessarily by that much but at least days or weeks older than the ones seen in the first film, alien resurrection and alien 3. So there goes the idea of having avp-r take place in a day or so and still have ridged head aliens. Unless the accelerated life cycle gained from the hormone pumped queen from avp accounts for that. >:(
While you're chunking pix from fango you might wanna dredge up Cameron's burster while you're at it. OH NOES.
Quote from: The Cleaner on Nov 12, 2007, 02:47:52 AM
Therefore, they're NOT ridge-head 'from the get go'.
The Aliens' chestburster did not have ridges either. He clearly means 'from the get-go' as adult Aliens.
QuoteRidges are supposed to be due to aliens that are older
A fan theory, and nothing more.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Nov 12, 2007, 02:52:16 AM
Quote from: The Cleaner on Nov 12, 2007, 02:47:52 AM
QuoteRidges are supposed to be due to aliens that are older
A fan theory, and nothing more.
a good one, makes sense compared to other movies to bad this one might messs that up
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 12, 2007, 02:53:46 AM
a good one, makes sense compared to other movies to bad this one might messs that up
Good or bad, it still is what it is. The AvPR Aliens having ridges doesn't violate anything canonical.
QuoteRidges are supposed to be due to aliens that are older
Except at least one, if not more of the AvP Aliens is 100 years old with no ridges. Secondly you can make a compelling argument based on the hamsters and state of the damage to the colony, and newt's condition than none of the Cameraliens is more than three days old.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Nov 12, 2007, 02:52:16 AM
Quote from: The Cleaner on Nov 12, 2007, 02:47:52 AM
Therefore, they're NOT ridge-head 'from the get go'.
The Aliens' chestburster did not have ridges either. He clearly means 'from the get-go' as adult Aliens.
QuoteRidges are supposed to be due to aliens that are older
A fan theory, and nothing more.
ok, well then enlighten me as to the real explanation why some aliens have ridged heads and some don't. (in terms of the movie/alien lifecycle, not behind the scene reasons for using them. lol)
Now don't get me wrong i prefer the ridged heads, but not at the expense of it not making sense. I'd rather have the other details fixed and still have smooth headed aliens as well as everything being consistent with the other films.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 12, 2007, 02:56:23 AM
ok, well then enlighten me as to the real explanation why some aliens have ridged heads and some don't. (in terms of the movie/alien lifecycle, not behind the scene reasons for using them. lol)
There isn't one. That's my point.
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 12, 2007, 02:55:36 AM
Secondly you can make a compelling argument based on the hamsters and state of the damage to the colony, and newt's condition than none of the Cameraliens is more than three days old.
So the Marines go into cryosleep for a trip that takes about 1 or 2 days tops?
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Nov 12, 2007, 02:52:16 AM
Quote from: The Cleaner on Nov 12, 2007, 02:47:52 AM
Therefore, they're NOT ridge-head 'from the get go'.
The Aliens' chestburster did not have ridges either. He clearly means 'from the get-go' as adult Aliens.
QuoteRidges are supposed to be due to aliens that are older
A fan theory, and nothing more.
Last time I checked, 'from the get-go' means when they're first shown, or in this case, when they're first chestbursted.
Really? Then why did Cameron specify that on the ALIENS DVD?
@Xhan: The AVP Aliens AREN'T 100s of years old. The queen is, the ones shown in AVP were freshly chestbursted.
Quote from: The Cleaner on Nov 12, 2007, 02:58:39 AM
Last time I checked, 'from the get-go' means when they're first shown.
Right. From the first time
the adult Aliens are shown. Just like in Aliens.
QuoteReally? Then why did Cameron specify that on the ALIENS DVD?
Only going from memory, but doesn't he offer that as a rather offhanded "maybe" explanation? Regardless, it still doesn't make the age=ridges canonical in any way.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Nov 12, 2007, 02:58:35 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 12, 2007, 02:56:23 AM
ok, well then enlighten me as to the real explanation why some aliens have ridged heads and some don't. (in terms of the movie/alien lifecycle, not behind the scene reasons for using them. lol)
There isn't one. That's my point.
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 12, 2007, 02:55:36 AM
Secondly you can make a compelling argument based on the hamsters and state of the damage to the colony, and newt's condition than none of the Cameraliens is more than three days old.
So the Marines go into cryosleep for a trip that takes about 1 or 2 days tops?
I think that the age reason for the ridge makes sense though and is the best explanation so far to account for it.
The colonists lost contact weeks prior to the marines being sent in. (Due to the time it takes them to leave gateway station and reach lv-426 in the zeta reticula system.)
Quote@Xhan: The AVP Aliens AREN'T 100s of years old. The queen is, the ones shown in AVP were freshly chestbursted.
There are too many aliens for them to be all bursted during the course of the movie.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Nov 12, 2007, 03:01:35 AM
Quote from: The Cleaner on Nov 12, 2007, 02:58:39 AM
Last time I checked, 'from the get-go' means when they're first shown.
Right. From the first time the adult Aliens are shown. Just like in Aliens.
QuoteReally? Then why did Cameron specify that on the ALIENS DVD?
Only going from memory, but doesn't he offer that as a rather offhanded "maybe" explanation? Regardless, it still doesn't make the age=ridges canonical in any way.
Judging by his rather venomous reply to my first post, he mean't what I said in my above post, not what you're insinuating.
Maybe so, but I still take his word above yours. Anything else that didn't adhere to it is the problem of the directors of the latter movies, not his.
Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Nov 12, 2007, 03:04:11 AM
Quote@Xhan: The AVP Aliens AREN'T 100s of years old. The queen is, the ones shown in AVP were freshly chestbursted.
There are too many aliens for them to be all bursted during the course of the movie.
that's an error of the writers/Paul Anderson, it doesn't give any credibility to the argument that they are leftover from that last hunt that took place there.
Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Nov 12, 2007, 03:04:11 AM
Quote@Xhan: The AVP Aliens AREN'T 100s of years old. The queen is, the ones shown in AVP were freshly chestbursted.
There are too many aliens for them to be all bursted during the course of the movie.
Then blame that on Anderson. He never offered up the explanation and judging by the movie, there's no way he could, therefore it's his fault. He only showed us the Queen being frozen, not any other Aliens, therefore we have to assume that she was the only frozen one there, unless something else reveals she wasn't.
Nevertheless. More Aliens than hosts points to there being leftovers from the previous hunt 100 years earlier.
Quote from: SM on Nov 12, 2007, 03:11:21 AM
Nevertheless. More Aliens than hosts points to there being leftovers from the previous hunt 100 years earlier.
Common sense dictates their lifespan is not that long. lol.
Quote from: SM on Nov 12, 2007, 03:11:21 AM
Nevertheless. More Aliens than hosts points to there being leftovers from the previous hunt 100 years earlier.
No, it points to the director not taking continuity into account or noy showing if there were any Aliens left over from another hunt.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 12, 2007, 03:12:17 AM
Common sense dictates their lifespan is not that long. lol.
Uhh...what? Have you seen some clip where one dies of old age? If not, I don't see how you can make such a claim. If you're working off of Ridley's comment, Cameron's film shows that they live much longer than the span of a few hours.
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Nov 12, 2007, 03:14:26 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 12, 2007, 03:12:17 AM
Common sense dictates their lifespan is not that long. lol.
Uhh...what? Have you seen some clip where one dies of old age? If not, I don't see how you can make such a claim. If you're working off of Ridley's comment, Cameron's film shows that they live much longer than the span of a few hours.
yeah, but its safe to say that there not immortal. Even if they live for say 100 years or so, they can't last as long as the eggs. The queen was put into stasis via predator technology.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 12, 2007, 03:26:34 AMyeah, but its safe to say that there not immortal. Even if they live for say 100 years or so, they can't last as long as the eggs. The queen was put into stasis via predator technology.
That doesn't mean that it was necessarily because of her lifespan. Having her thrash around for a hundred years wouldn't have been the best idea to keep her restrained, and since she didn't have a food source to feed from it could be argued that they were just making sure she didn't die from starvation by forcing her into hibernation.
Quote from: The Cleaner on Nov 12, 2007, 03:05:54 AM
Maybe so, but I still take his word above yours.
And that's completetly fair, obviously. But it still doesn't mean a film that shows ridged Aliens as young is at fault. Cameron's theory is nowhere in the film itself.
QuoteAnything else that didn't adhere to it is the problem of the directors of the latter movies, not his.
Like the Queen? She doesn't adhere to Ridley's original intent of the Alien lifecycle, but she's not contradictory, because the final cut of Alien shows nothing of egg-morphing. Same deal here. A later director can't be held accountable to half-formed ideas that are not actually presented in the films proper.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 12, 2007, 02:56:23 AM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Nov 12, 2007, 02:52:16 AM
Quote from: The Cleaner on Nov 12, 2007, 02:47:52 AM
Therefore, they're NOT ridge-head 'from the get go'.
The Aliens' chestburster did not have ridges either. He clearly means 'from the get-go' as adult Aliens.
QuoteRidges are supposed to be due to aliens that are older
A fan theory, and nothing more.
ok, well then enlighten me as to the real explanation why some aliens have ridged heads and some don't. (in terms of the movie/alien lifecycle, not behind the scene reasons for using them. lol)
Now don't get me wrong i prefer the ridged heads, but not at the expense of it not making sense. I'd rather have the other details fixed and still have smooth headed aliens as well as everything being consistent with the other films.
Well it could be something from the environment of the planet that caused the ridged heads, either from the air, ground or maybe something in the ATMO. Who knows the planet was Alien and terraformed? The queen on Earth is different than the queen on LV-426
2nd Not all humans look the same why should Aliens? I guess it was never a big sticking point with me because I like both bumpy and smooth headed Aliens.
If there were more Aliens than hosts (and I can't say such a thing ever stood out for me), then it's purely down to a production error or, if we're being hypothetical, potential 'twins'/'triplets' or whatever.
Logically, there would be no reason for them to unfreeze the Queen if Aliens were already there and the things would have probably woken up and started to attack when the humans got got too deep into the place, considering all the heat and movement which was taking place.
QuoteCommon sense dictates their lifespan is not that long.
Uh, no.
QuoteNo, it points to the director not taking continuity into account or noy showing if there were any Aliens left over from another hunt.
Duuuuh, really?? ::)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy18%2Fxenomorphine%2FAVPSpringerTests.jpg&hash=aca0729e396e52043b1f73d0ece0759f885bd4a6)
It doesn't matter what the intent was, if there's nothing to support it. I don't see anderson running off to say OH SORRY. There are eggs still viable after the ship's pilot has apparently fossilzed, there are Aliens that are at least 100 years old left in a Pyramid, and the Aliens lack of eating and breathing, and ability to simply skate up walls with a marine/engineer in tow while facing AWAY from a surface they could climb points a very straight road to a conducive reactive metabolism that either strips electrons or utilizes ambient zero point energy; both of which point to a closed "metabolism" that can indefinitely sustain itself until too much damage is directly received to contain. Aliens aren't from earth, aliens do not have to be bound by the rules that govern life on earth.
thats how the queen reproduces until she grows the egg sack thing..big enough to hold it and as enough drones to protect her
+ people would be crying if predalien run of ship grew egg sack laid eggs and sat there for the dam movie
they would be saying...she grew it to fast,,she didnt do anything
pity sack people you call yourselves fans and you dont understand that?
Jeez, louise.
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 12, 2007, 08:19:55 AM
It doesn't matter what the intent was, if there's nothing to support it. I don't see anderson running off to say OH SORRY. There are eggs still viable after the ship's pilot has apparently fossilzed, there are Aliens that are at least 100 years old left in a Pyramid, and the Aliens lack of eating and breathing, and ability to simply skate up walls with a marine/engineer in tow while facing AWAY from a surface they could climb points a very straight road to a conducive reactive metabolism that either strips electrons or utilizes ambient zero point energy; both of which point to a closed "metabolism" that can indefinitely sustain itself until too much damage is directly received to contain. Aliens aren't from earth, aliens do not have to be bound by the rules that govern life on earth.
All you have to do is pay attention to the details people and we wouldn't have some of these silly arguments. The Alien eggs on Earth were not there for hundred years, the queen immediately started laying eggs when she thawed and they were transported around the chambers on converyer belts you can see it in the movie. Even if they were, so what there were no hosts to impregnate so they would have stayed dormant. Remember there was no way to the surface either until the preds melted through to the temple.
The eggs on LV-426 are a different story though, they were probably there for many years although since it is an Alien planet things could fossilized differently there. In addition they may have been on some sort of life-support produced by the ship. Remember the blue field around them?
Count the number of pyranid eggs and show me HOW the eggs are placed in a completely DIFFERENT AREA of the Pyramid with NO CONVEYORS.
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 12, 2007, 11:02:03 PM
Count the number of pyranid eggs and show me HOW the eggs are placed in a completely DIFFERENT AREA of the Pyramid with NO CONVEYORS.
I hate to be the first one to tell you this...but aliens have arms, which could be used to move the eggs
You really are incredibly behind.
Let's keep this really simple.
Count the number of eggs the Queen makes.
See WHERE the Aliens ARE.
Note when they appear. You can use the pyramid as a timekeeper.
Note where the Egg-Hive is.
Note how many eggs are there.
Go back and see where the Aliens are, and what they're doing. Remember the pyramid gives you a very specific time table.
Count the number of Aliens again.
Slap yourself with a dead fish in front of a mirror a hundred times.
Well i can't get any dead fish your to busy eating them all...
Second, they sure could have moved them, third...SO what if the eggs were still there?
Theres been lots of hunts aliens could have done it on one of those, then got killed by other Predators. Third, we don't follow the Aliens every second i'm sure some of them could move it.
And last, where'd you happen to find a map of the Pryamid?
The eggs have dust on them and hive material is encrusted all over the walls, not just where sebastian verheiden and company are placed. Do explain how Aliens can teleport over such vast distances and through solid matter in a reconfiguring pyramid, and why they didn't use this awesome teleport/time travel ability to own everyone and everything in the other movies. Also kindly how aliens can multitask so well as to fight preds, harass and capture people in a completely different pyramid section, yet still find the time to carry place and set eggs and sprinkle dust on them for flavor. Do recall the pyramid keeps rather specicfic time, which we see onscreen.
The internets has lots of stuff. Like production maps.
Welll good thing you read my whole post ;)
I said they could have left it over from the last hunt and second we see most if not all of the Aliens at least one time if anything their are less of them than how many we know they could be
rofl, hilarious how eggs can be left over but not Aliens. Do you even go over what you post?
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 12, 2007, 11:24:21 PM
rofl, hilarious how eggs can be left over but not Aliens. Do you even go over what you post?
Well if you lay 10 eggs and have on host....that leaves eggs over? unless u consider Aliens and eggs the same thing then do you even look over your attacks?
Except this particlar phase of the discussion is in addition to longevity, about more adult aliens than hosts.
Awesome.
If this were a debate you would be ten miles away yelling at at a rock.
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 12, 2007, 11:30:40 PM
Except this particlar phase of the discussion is also in a addition to longevity, is about more adult aliens than hosts.
Awesome.
If this were a debate you would be ten miles away yelling at at a rock.
I know that and that's what i said orignally...
Like i said once...IF anythign their are two few Adult Aliens...The most we see i'd say is a good Six or Seven, with about that many origanly and having the others who get caught
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 12, 2007, 11:24:21 PM
rofl, hilarious how eggs can be left over but not Aliens. Do you even go over what you post?
About this how can you have an egg left over and not an alien...kill the adult aliens and leave, not that hard. You seem to act like the Egg chamber was some hard thing to get to maybe they never bothered to go in there
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 12, 2007, 11:02:03 PM
Count the number of pyranid eggs and show me HOW the eggs are placed in a completely DIFFERENT AREA of the Pyramid with NO CONVEYORS.
The incredible speed of the Aliens is one of my gripes with AVP.
I don't know why everyone keeps calling it the "Egg Chamber", but that is in fact the "Sacrificial Chamber." See the mummified corpses? The reason there are so many eggs is because the Queen keeps laying them, they keep going through the conveyor belt, and end up in the sacrificial chamber. By the time Miller ends up being cocooned, the sacrificial chamber has been coverted into a hive. How the Aliens were able to do this so freakin fast is another Anderson f**k up, not left over Aliens and eggs. The entire lifecycle is sped up. Aliens are birthed in 10 minutes, and they can cover an entire room with their resin in only 20 minutes.
Again, the egg chamber and sacrificial chamber are one in the same. And until someone proves the reason there are more Aliens than hosts is because they are left overs, I will always presume that Anderson lost count.
Quoteknow that and that's what i said orignally...
You know, if you're bored there a plenty of interesting diversions to be had all over the intertubes.
Not talking about WHY the egss are there, simply that they are. It's actually completely irrelevant, because all that matters is that they ARE there.
Secondly, the number of Aliens contradicts your whole premise.
Meanwhile: Do explain how Aliens can teleport and time travel.
QuoteAnderson lost count.
Hard to say when he nevers touches on it. I'm simply going by what I see on film. In black and white and in stone.
Same way Predators can? (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=8317.0)
*runs*
AVP didn't make much sense to begin with, so it's not surprising. Between the arbitrarily acid-immune weaponry and the life cycle, I wouldn't be surprised if he lost count. The novelization did include hundreds of Aliens towards the end; I imagine that wouldn't have been done if it wasn't tossed around as an idea in the gestation of Anderson's film.
Oh I can't wait for this one.
I remember during the heyday of yellow text that I had posited straight from my ass, that in fact Jockeys and Aliens were humans from *echo* THE FUTURE *echo* and the crashed derelict was in fact a time machine, not a spaceship and the reason Aliens were completely compatible with human DNA despite being in the ass end of space is that they were in fact, what humans had evolved into; the perfect synthesis of biological and technological.
Kind of sad to think that someone would pick up on it and go YEAH THAT ROCKS, much less turn it into a viable "theory" replete with photoshpped charts and a time table.
Dark Horse wept.
And i'm the one talking to the rock ::)
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Nov 12, 2007, 11:40:57 PM
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 12, 2007, 11:02:03 PM
Count the number of pyranid eggs and show me HOW the eggs are placed in a completely DIFFERENT AREA of the Pyramid with NO CONVEYORS.
The incredible speed of the Aliens is one of my gripes with AVP.
I don't know why everyone keeps calling it the "Egg Chamber", but that is in fact the "Sacrificial Chamber." See the mummified corpses? The reason there are so many eggs is because the Queen keeps laying them, they keep going through the conveyor belt, and end up in the sacrificial chamber. By the time Miller ends up being cocooned, the sacrificial chamber has been coverted into a hive. How the Aliens were able to do this so freakin fast is another Anderson f**k up, not left over Aliens and eggs. The entire lifecycle is sped up. Aliens are birthed in 10 minutes, and they can cover an entire room with their resin in only 20 minutes.
Again, the egg chamber and sacrificial chamber are one in the same. And until someone proves the reason there are more Aliens than hosts is because they are left overs, I will always presume that Anderson lost count.
Exactly thank you!
Yeah you can see the dang eggs going on conveyor belts and then they pop up in the egg/sacrificial chamber. It obvious the queen's chamber is directly below.
QuoteAnd i'm the one talking to the rock
You complete the ability to comprehend. Call it whatever you like.
QuoteExactly
The sacrificial chamber and the "hive" are in completely different areas, and there's no mechanism/trap doors/steps leading to the "hive."
Furthermore you get some nice shots of the ground and there are no squares in a circular pattern in the floor, nor the ceiling.
Quoteproves
rofl, there are more Aliens than Hosts period, the END. It on the film and in continuity. You can pick/choose all you like but you don't get to contrdict what's film simply because you don't like it. Pretty much like saying Billy survived cause he screams off camera,
therefore he's not really dead cause he's my fave character in the world.. He's deader than a doornail, and there is more Aliens than facehugged people. The end. It's right there onscreen.
No, the hive is in the sacrificial chamber. Like I said previously, you can see the alters and mummified corpses.
Plus, in the novel, when Lex finds the hive, it is still called the sacrificial chamber.
I've read that the sacrificial chamber is supposed to be the hive - I don't know if this is born out on screen though. Experience suggests the X-Man is correct however.
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 13, 2007, 03:18:27 AM
QuoteAnd i'm the one talking to the rock
You complete the ability to comprehend. Call it whatever you like.
QuoteExactly
The sacrificial chamber and the "hive" are in completely different areas, and there's no mechanism/trap doors/steps leading to the "hive."
Furthermore you get some nice shots of the ground and there are no squares in a circular pattern in the floor, nor the ceiling.
Quoteproves
rofl, there are more Aliens than Hosts period, the END. It on the film and in continuity. You can pick choose all you like but you don't get to contrdict what's film simply because you don't like it. Pretty much like saying Billy survived cause he screams off camera, therefore he;s not really dead cause he's my fave character in the world.. He's deader than a doornail, and there is miore Aliens than facehugged people. The end. It's right there onscreen.
So they screwed up with the number of Aliens. It's a movie, mistakes like that happen all of the time. Even if the egg chamber seen later is different it doesn't prove much, only that the conveyors can take the eggs to many different parts of pyramid. After the first few aliens were born they could have started moving eggs into a specific area and building a hive. The only thing screwed up is the time it took them to do it.
Quote from: SM on Nov 13, 2007, 03:28:53 AM
I've read that the sacrificial chamber is supposed to be the hive - I don't know if this is born out on screen though. Experience suggests the X-Man is correct however.
The hive is the sacrificial chamber. You can see the alters and corpses. Maybe I should post a screen shot...
Please do.
I wouldn't however rely on the novel as a source (or in fact for anything). It says the Queens unused eggs are being incinerated.
Well, I just watched it, and I could see 5 alters. I'll post the shots.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi110.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn120%2Fbranman887%2FNVE00004-2.png&hash=8c77f99d504c08420f471a60b76e0a8ddc15ffad)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi110.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn120%2Fbranman887%2FNVE00006-1.png&hash=93490a818f5cc823a3710cad308dcd83256ebdad)
Maybe that was why Scar and Lex got to the conveyor exit at the end fast.
Quote from: SM on Nov 13, 2007, 03:28:53 AM
Experience suggests the X-Man is correct however.
I guess that faith is out the window on the next discussion then. ;)
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Nov 13, 2007, 03:21:29 AM
No, the hive is in the sacrificial chamber. Like I said previously, you can see the alters and mummified corpses.
Plus, in the novel, when Lex finds the hive, it is still called the sacrificial chamber.
And in the A L I E N Novel, the facehugger has big f**k off EYE on top of it. Parker squishes the Alien's tentacle like arm in an airlock...
except it never happened onscreen.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.planetavp.com%2Fimages%2Favpmovie%2Favpmovie95.jpg&hash=92fcf8cf4099120dd4912d30baf175897a3c3cc3)
by all means do.
wow pics o dead peoples just like umm verheiden, sebastian?
How bout this.
Post pics of the Pillars raised out in the beginning with goo from the floor all over them.
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 13, 2007, 03:52:57 AM
wow pics o dead peoples just like umm verheiden, sebastian?
Mummified within a few hours maximum? Quite a feat.
Mummified as dragged down and killed elsewhere a rather long time ago.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.planetavp.com%2Fimages%2Favpmovie%2Favpmovie41.jpg&hash=7063fdd9e4ebced3f1e9455ad3ea35f7a67e1021)
Oh Lookie, ROUNDISH AND CLEAN instead of squareish and covered in hive yummies..
A CONUNDRUM IT IS.
Oh wait, it isn't.
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 13, 2007, 03:57:02 AM
Mummified as dragged down and killed elsewhere.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.planetavp.com%2Fimages%2Favpmovie%2Favpmovie41.jpg&hash=7063fdd9e4ebced3f1e9455ad3ea35f7a67e1021)
Oh Lookie, ROUNDISH AND CLEAN instead of squareish and covered in hive yummies..
A CONUNDRUM IT IS.
Oh wait, it isn't.
That pic is before the sacrificial chamber has been changed into the hive. Hence no "hive yummies" yet. Why can't you see that it is clearly the sacrificial chamber and not a different one. The alters and mummified corpses are right there!
Plus it makes sense. The Aliens were born there, so it only makes sense that they start to build their hive there.
So now the Aliens can teleport and time travel AND spray gazllions of tons of hive crap around in 20-30 minutes?
k.
While you're explaining that, also explain how the mouth of cave style entrance (without alien goo to round it off) is transformed into a gated door and vice versa, particularly in light of the fact that the sac chamber doesn't reconfigure on the anterior side after it locks down. I knew the pyramid could move around, but the ability to change shape... no wonder Preds/Mayans own the universe. They can terraform solid matter on the fly. Their penises must be HUGE.
I just looked at the script, and the scene heading is labeled "Sacrificial Chamber."
INT. PYRAMID - SACRIFICIAL CHAMBER
Scar hears the Queen's blood-curdling SCREAM as it echoes through the entire pyramid.
LEX
What was that?
Lex witnesses a first -- a scared Predator
Like many have already attested to for years, Anderson f**ked up. When I saw the film in theaters, I remember thinking "How could the Aliens build a hive that fast?"
There is no explanation, Anderson sped everything up to suit his lame script.
Man, what are you on about?
The room Lex and Scar enter is exactly the same room as the people got facehugged initially - the sacrificial chamber. You can see the equipment left by the team around the hive - In the very picture you posted, Xhan! - which, if you bother checking, will match the same equipment the people left in that room before the shit hit the fan.
We don't know what the hive crap is, nor do we know how it's made, so it's impossible to say how long the process is, especially since beforehand we were never given an indicator in the previous movies. On top of that, it's not like they hived up a particularly large area; a single chamber, and a part of the adjoining corridor.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 13, 2007, 04:16:25 AM
Man, what are you on about?
The room Lex and Scar enter is exactly the same room as the people got facehugged initially - the sacrificial chamber. You can see the equipment left by the team around the hive - In the very picture you posted, Xhan! - which, if you bother checking, will match the same equipment the people left in that room before the shit hit the fan.
We don't know what the hive crap is, nor do we know how it's made, so it's impossible to say how long the process is, especially since beforehand we were never given an indicator in the previous movies. On top of that, it's not like they hived up a particularly large area; a single chamber, and a part of the adjoining corridor.
Exactly, and who knows, maybe the Alien's resin continuously spreads once it has been applied, which would explain how the sacrificial chamber is covered in it so quickly.
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Nov 13, 2007, 04:00:09 AM
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 13, 2007, 03:57:02 AM
Mummified as dragged down and killed elsewhere.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.planetavp.com%2Fimages%2Favpmovie%2Favpmovie41.jpg&hash=7063fdd9e4ebced3f1e9455ad3ea35f7a67e1021)
Oh Lookie, ROUNDISH AND CLEAN instead of squareish and covered in hive yummies..
A CONUNDRUM IT IS.
Oh wait, it isn't.
That pic is before the sacrificial chamber has been changed into the hive. Hence no "hive yummies" yet. Why can't you see that it is clearly the sacrificial chamber and not a different one. The alters and mummified corpses are right there!
Plus it makes sense. The Aliens were born there, so it only makes sense that they start to build their hive there.
"hive yummies". lol.
But in response to that, those are newly layed eggs, the queen was secured in her chamber by the predators, so that the eggs most likely go down a conveyor belt type thing, and they end up in the sacrficial chamber. So there's no tendrils at the bottom etc. as no other aliens have got to them to move them near cocooned victims yet..etc.
Thanks by the way for posting a screen capture of the lamest character in the film. ::)
QuoteI guess that faith is out the window on the next discussion then.
Dunno bout the next one. Mebbe just this one. I'd have to check the flick myself to be sure either way which isn't a thought I exactly relish...
The people were cocooned within an hour or so. They woke up that way.
Well, seeing as how Anderson did that stupid 10 minute thing, it allows the audience to determine how much time has passed. From the time Miller is cocooned, the pyramid shifts once, so that is like 10-15 minutes. See, if Anderson had only left the pyramid shifting random instead of time based, things wouldn't have seemed so fast.
Of course, there's no reason to assume we see all the shifts. There could easily be several/many off screen moves.
Doubt it.
So do I, but there's no reason to discount it as an excuse.
Yep. Sacrificial chamber and hive is thesame palce. Thank you mr Anderson for this bull shit you proudly called AvP. :-\
The ten minute pyramid shift screwed it up. If we went by that, the people were only in the pyramid for about a half an hour.
Quote from: Foundationman2 on Nov 13, 2007, 02:40:38 PM
The ten minute pyramid shift screwed it up. If we went by that, the people were only in the pyramid for about a half an hour.
And that my friend is one of the many problems that plague the film: things happen way to fast.
I cant believe most of you guys think this is "pretty cool" :'(
The Alien life cycle was unique but now it is similar to other movies like "The Faculty", "Jason Goes To Hell: The Final Friday", and many more.
I dont care if its something cool to see, i so pissed about this...and sad, if they wanted to save money they could put more facehuggers inside the predators ship and thats it! you dont need eggs, you dont need a queen, and you dont need this pathetic reproduction method.
I'd say that they are just trying to correct the crap that Anderson started. Would you rather have him designing the Predalien's life or would you rather have the bros. do it?
I like the predalien idea (not the ADI design (that head SUCKS)) but the reproduction method is completly unnecessary and ruins the alien life cycle
Quote from: slipknotpredator on Nov 13, 2007, 03:08:49 PM
I cant believe most of you guys think this is "pretty cool" :'(
The Alien life cycle was unique but now it is similar to other movies like "The Faculty", "Jason Goes To Hell: The Final Friday", and many more.
I dont care if its something cool to see, i so pissed about this...and sad, if they wanted to save money they could put more facehuggers inside the predators ship and thats it! you dont need eggs, you dont need a queen, and you dont need this pathetic reproduction method.
Amen brothah'. Tell it like it is.
Quote from: Foundationman2 on Nov 13, 2007, 03:20:48 PM
I'd say that they are just trying to correct the crap that Anderson started. Would you rather have him designing the Predalien's life or would you rather have the bros. do it?
How are they fixing anything?
I don't see how the new reproduction method even addresses any of the problems raised by Anderson.
Anderson at least kept the stages of the life cycle in their proper order, albeit accelerated.
Quote from: slipknotpredator on Nov 13, 2007, 03:08:49 PM
I cant believe most of you guys think this is "pretty cool" :'(
The Alien life cycle was unique but now it is similar to other movies like "The Faculty", "Jason Goes To Hell: The Final Friday", and many more.
I dont care if its something cool to see, i so pissed about this...and sad, if they wanted to save money they could put more facehuggers inside the predators ship and thats it! you dont need eggs, you dont need a queen, and you dont need this pathetic reproduction method.
Correct and quite an understatement. The new reproduction method is a total clusterf**k of epic proportions.
A f**k you to Ridley Scott, James Cameron, David Fincher and even Pierre Jeneut(spelling could be of. lol)
Everyone after Ridley Scott all had the sense to put their own stamp on things without f**king up everything and going against what had been established regardless of things people might not have liked about their films.
So its not just a matter of saying "f**k you, paul anderson!". Even his subpar version of avp, at the very least adhered to the establlished life/reproductive cycle of the f**king aliens. (Albeit issues with the gestation..etc.
)
is this thread still going?!? we're on what, 184 pages??
page 185= Angry Rants
QuoteA f**k you to Ridley Scott, James Cameron, David Fincher and even Pierre Jeneut(spelling could be of. lol)
I'm glad on the last one. It was Jeunet and the geniuses at ADI who thought that the creatures should be organic and that they needed to mess around with the basics to "improve." At least we're getting some good with some crap, whereas every idea in Resurrection is appropriately covered in hues of urine and fecal matter.
The sound of predictability.
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Nov 14, 2007, 12:20:24 AM
QuoteA f**k you to Ridley Scott, James Cameron, David Fincher and even Pierre Jeneut(spelling could be of. lol)
I'm glad on the last one. It was Jeunet and the geniuses at ADI who thought that the creatures should be organic and that they needed to mess around with the basics to "improve." At least we're getting some good with some crap, whereas every idea in Resurrection is appropriately covered in hues of urine and fecal matter.
The newborn may have sucked, but it didn't break canon at all. It made sense in terms of the plot, it was a human/alien abomination that was supposed to look weird. Although I would agree that the directors of all three previous films were better than him, even though i don't think alien 3 is that much better than alien: resurrection. (anytime the alien ran on all fours, it was the rod puppet and looked awful, it was pre-cgi yet looks like the effects of a sci-fi channel original movie)
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 14, 2007, 01:03:58 AM
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Nov 14, 2007, 12:20:24 AM
QuoteA f**k you to Ridley Scott, James Cameron, David Fincher and even Pierre Jeneut(spelling could be of. lol)
I'm glad on the last one. It was Jeunet and the geniuses at ADI who thought that the creatures should be organic and that they needed to mess around with the basics to "improve." At least we're getting some good with some crap, whereas every idea in Resurrection is appropriately covered in hues of urine and fecal matter.
The newborn may have sucked, but it didn't break canon at all. It made sense in terms of the plot, it was a human/alien abomination that was supposed to look weird. Although I would agree that the directors of all three previous films were better than him, even though i don't think alien 3 is that much better than alien: resurrection. (anytime the alien ran on all fours, it was the rod puppet and looked awful, it was pre-cgi yet looks like the effects of a sci-fi channel original movie)
I agree. I always thought the Alien 3 effects were awful especially in comparison with Aliens, you would have thought the effects would get better not worse. I hated Newborn too. I always thought that why would you make an Alien-human hybrid when Aliens themselves already take on the characteristics of their hosts. They are already somewhat hybrid creature. I also don't agree with calling the runner a hybrid and not the regular aliens because their is no difference except for host.
Quote from: Flaming Firefox on Nov 14, 2007, 01:09:35 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 14, 2007, 01:03:58 AM
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Nov 14, 2007, 12:20:24 AM
QuoteA f**k you to Ridley Scott, James Cameron, David Fincher and even Pierre Jeneut(spelling could be of. lol)
I'm glad on the last one. It was Jeunet and the geniuses at ADI who thought that the creatures should be organic and that they needed to mess around with the basics to "improve." At least we're getting some good with some crap, whereas every idea in Resurrection is appropriately covered in hues of urine and fecal matter.
The newborn may have sucked, but it didn't break canon at all. It made sense in terms of the plot, it was a human/alien abomination that was supposed to look weird. Although I would agree that the directors of all three previous films were better than him, even though i don't think alien 3 is that much better than alien: resurrection. (anytime the alien ran on all fours, it was the rod puppet and looked awful, it was pre-cgi yet looks like the effects of a sci-fi channel original movie)
I agree. I always thought the Alien 3 effects were awful especially in comparison with Aliens, you would have thought the effects would get better not worse. I hated Newborn too. I always thought that why would you make an Alien-human hybrid when Aliens themselves already take on the characteristics of their hosts. They are already somewhat hybrid creature. I also don't agree with calling the runner a hybrid and not the regular aliens because their is no difference except for host.
i understand about the hybrid thing, but I used the term for the ease of speaking as opposed to applying it literally in terms of the aliens. The reason why the effects got worse from Aliens to Alien 3 is probably due to:
-the fact that it was ADI's first alien film in terms of special effects as their own seperate company/no stan winston.
-the dog alien required movement that tom couldn't do in the suit, and they had to use a f**king rod puppet as no cgi was available for the most part. (There is only one cgi shot, and its the cracking of the aliens head at the end). Which makes you wonder why they opted to do a quadripedal alien to begin with.
It's what the Finch wanted from the outset.
Quote from: SM on Nov 14, 2007, 01:15:45 AM
It's what the Finch wanted from the outset.
what? It wasn't in the script? He should have known the limitations of the studio and the special effects for that time. I guess he was just too ambitious and eager as a director to work on his first film, which had big expectations, it followed in the footsteps of what Ridley Scott and James Cameron have laid the groundwork for.
Ripley refers to it being different so it was in the script, but Fincher had ADI and Giger designing Aliens that went about on all fours shortly after he came on board. And that was probably born out the ideas in Ward's script.
Quote from: SM on Nov 14, 2007, 01:22:51 AM
Ripley refers to it being different so it was in the script, but Fincher had ADI and Giger designing Aliens that went about on all fours shortly after he came on board. And that was probably born out the ideas in Ward's script.
vincent ward's script sucked, at least the original wooden planet concept in which some motifs survived to the final script of alien 3.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 14, 2007, 01:18:43 AM
Quote from: SM on Nov 14, 2007, 01:15:45 AM
It's what the Finch wanted from the outset.
what? It wasn't in the script? He should have known the limitations of the studio and the special effects for that time. I guess he was just too ambitious and eager as a director to work on his first film, which had big expectations, it followed in the footsteps of what Ridley Scott and James Cameron have laid the groundwork for.
I agree, a case of the director not working within his limitations. The dog-runner is a brilliant idea, but wasn't feasible really with the kind of effects they were using. It would be cool to see Alien 3 remastered with new CGI in place of the crappy puppet.
There's nothing wrong with the puppeteering in Alien 3. Alls that's needed is to re-composite the elements again, using a digital system instead of an optical one.
The Alien 3's puppeted movement kicks the shit out of any of the CG Aliens we've had so far.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Nov 14, 2007, 02:12:02 AM
There's nothing wrong with the puppeteering in Alien 3. Alls that's needed is to re-composite the elements again, using a digital system instead of an optical one.
The Alien 3's puppeted movement kicks the shit out of any of the CG Aliens we've had so far.
well maybe. The swimming aliens in alien: resurrection were easily spotable as being cgi, but they had to use them as tom couldn't do that in the suit and its actually one of the more interesting parts of the film. The cgi aliens in avp freeing the queen were pretty obvious as well, i will give you that.
Also the puppeteer work may have been good, but it still looks like shit on film due to the limitations of using such effects. The same way say "clash of the titans" effects look really shitty in terms of current special effects, but at the time it was the norm.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Nov 14, 2007, 02:12:02 AM
There's nothing wrong with the puppeteering in Alien 3. Alls that's needed is to re-composite the elements again, using a digital system instead of an optical one.
The Alien 3's puppeted movement kicks the shit out of any of the CG Aliens we've had so far.
Are you smoking something? You actually like jerky movements and an obvious pole attached to your Alien? I agree Resurrection's CGI was a little obvious but I'll still take CGI, which it was a lot better when they used it in AvP than a puppet doll anytime.
Some of the shots of the rod puppet are pretty good. Like when it is chewing on that guy before the chase. However, most of the shots aren't so good.
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Nov 14, 2007, 02:41:47 AM
Some of the shots of the rod puppet are pretty good. Like when it is chewing on that guy before the chase. However, most of the shots aren't so good.
None look as good as the aliens do in the second film however, which was made in 1986. Alien 3 was made in 1992 if i recall correctly.
Well, obviously, they didn't use the rod puppet in "Aliens." The real thing is always better.
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Nov 14, 2007, 02:47:01 AM
Well, obviously, they didn't use the rod puppet in "Aliens." The real thing is always better.
And that is the point.
Yeah I love the AvP2 promo shot going round of the Predator and Alien fighting with the dorsal tubes all floppy...
Quote from: SM on Nov 14, 2007, 03:03:39 AM
Yeah I love the AvP2 promo shot going round of the Predator and Alien fighting with the dorsal tubes all floppy...
That shot is horrible. I hate the way ADI makes the dorsal tubes. In Alien/Aliens the tubes looked really great.
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Nov 14, 2007, 02:47:01 AM
Well, obviously, they didn't use the rod puppet in "Aliens." The real thing is always better.
They have real Aliens!!!?? :o
JK I know what you mean. ;)
Quote from: The New Blood on Nov 14, 2007, 03:08:54 AM
Quote from: SM on Nov 14, 2007, 03:03:39 AM
Yeah I love the AvP2 promo shot going round of the Predator and Alien fighting with the dorsal tubes all floppy...
That shot is horrible. I hate the way ADI makes the dorsal tubes. In Alien/Aliens the tubes looked really great.
That pic is my desktop background though. I'm too lazy to change it and surely don't want to use the predalien. lol.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 14, 2007, 04:17:04 AM
That pic is my desktop background though.
NO! Somewhere in the world a cute little kitten just died... :-\
Quote from: Gates on Nov 14, 2007, 04:18:45 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 14, 2007, 04:17:04 AM
That pic is my desktop background though.
NO! Somewhere in the world a cute little kitten just died... :-\
Like I said, I'm too lazy to change it. I put that one up, when that one was the only available pic for avp-r and my hopes for the film were, you might say a little better. lol.
It's funny because up until that picture came out I held some resemblance of hope...then it went down hill, real fu<king fast, from there on...
Quote from: Gates on Nov 14, 2007, 04:24:28 AM
It's funny because up until that picture came out I held some resemblance of hope...then it went down hill, real fu<king fast, from there on...
The more pics of the predalien released and very shortly after the news of the vomiting reproduction method, revealed that this film would not be as good as I previously thought it would. Then you have the store showdown clip in which the alien doesn't resist the predator while getting its head ripped off and the acting of that dale character just seemed weak too me. The more info released, and the more pics, the more I graviate from optimism to realism and even pessimism at times concerning this film.
Like I said here before, anyone expecting anything as good as Alien, or Aliens is out of luck. Expect something more along the lines of Alien:Resurrection mixed with Predator 2 with some issues with breaking official canon of the alien films.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 14, 2007, 04:29:34 AM
Expect something more along the lines of Alien:Resurrection mixed with Predator 2 with some issues with breaking official canon of the alien films.
I'm not even a big fan of those two movies, and I
still won't put my expectations that high...personally, I'm expecting it to be just a few steps up from
AvP; no more, no less...
Quote from: Gates on Nov 14, 2007, 04:40:17 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 14, 2007, 04:29:34 AM
Expect something more along the lines of Alien:Resurrection mixed with Predator 2 with some issues with breaking official canon of the alien films.
I'm not even a big fan of those two movies, and I still won't put my expectations that high...personally, I'm expecting it to be just a few steps up from AvP; no more, no less...
I said more along the lines, never implying that there aren't a shitload of other minor issues stacked up like a f**king mountain in addition to the new reproductive method f**k-up, which I think is one of the worst downfalls of the film. The predalien design would be second and third the regular alien mouth design, then maybe the teenage actors and their lame drama.
So Its not like its going to be as good as predator 2 or alien resurrection, but the blending of a lot of those elements seems like the closest comparison, as opposed to simply saying a more gory, slightly better version of avp. The similarities are:
Predator 2+ avp-r:
-one predator for most of the film, though there are others at one part.
-urban environment
-Not as good as predator 1
Alien: resurrection+ avp-r:
-design of the alien warriors not as good as the first two films.
-Have lame "hybrids"introduced just for the sake of seeing something new.
-cheesy dialogue(im guessing there will be some in avp-r, especially with the bullying of ricky by dale)
-not as good as Alien or Aliens.
I just thought of something.
Im actually glad the ADI aliens design looks so bad.
Would you really want to see a design as badass and beautiful as the original be tossed around like a pussy by the predator as the Strause seem to want?
At least when i see this i can tell myself that these things arnt real aliens when they die like punks by the truckload.
Quote from: Spaghetti on Nov 14, 2007, 05:03:33 AM
I just thought of something.
Im actually glad the ADI aliens design looks so bad.
Would you really want to see a design as badass and beautiful as the original be tossed around like a pussy by the predator as the Strause seem to want?
At least when i see this i can tell myself that these things arnt real aliens when they die like punks by the truckload.
Things should have never gotten this bad, where you have to think of things in those terms in order to receive any enjoyment out of the film. Why the hell couldn't they have looked great and also had the predator struggle his ass off against them as opposed to not breaking a sweat?
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 14, 2007, 04:29:34 AM
Quote from: Gates on Nov 14, 2007, 04:24:28 AM
It's funny because up until that picture came out I held some resemblance of hope...then it went down hill, real fu<king fast, from there on...
The more pics of the predalien released and very shortly after the news of the vomiting reproduction method, revealed that this film would not be as good as I previously thought it would. Then you have the store showdown clip in which the alien doesn't resist the predator while getting its head ripped off and the acting of that dale character just seemed weak too me. The more info released, and the more pics, the more I graviate from optimism to realism and even pessimism at times concerning this film.
Like I said here before, anyone expecting anything as good as Alien, or Aliens is out of luck. Expect something more along the lines of Alien:Resurrection mixed with Predator 2 with some issues with breaking official canon of the alien films.
No way man. This will be a good movie.
Quote from: Wolf Sazen on Nov 14, 2007, 05:07:51 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 14, 2007, 04:29:34 AM
Quote from: Gates on Nov 14, 2007, 04:24:28 AM
It's funny because up until that picture came out I held some resemblance of hope...then it went down hill, real fu<king fast, from there on...
The more pics of the predalien released and very shortly after the news of the vomiting reproduction method, revealed that this film would not be as good as I previously thought it would. Then you have the store showdown clip in which the alien doesn't resist the predator while getting its head ripped off and the acting of that dale character just seemed weak too me. The more info released, and the more pics, the more I graviate from optimism to realism and even pessimism at times concerning this film.
Like I said here before, anyone expecting anything as good as Alien, or Aliens is out of luck. Expect something more along the lines of Alien:Resurrection mixed with Predator 2 with some issues with breaking official canon of the alien films.
No way man. This will be a good movie.
You know, the director's don't need you to figuratively lick their sweaty balls. Optiimism is one thing, but with everything known so far you really should be cautiously optimistic at best and not just waiving the banner of "this movie is going to kick ass!" (remember many people did that before they saw the first avp)
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 14, 2007, 05:05:47 AM
Why the hell couldn't they have looked great and also had the predator struggle his ass off against them as opposed to not breaking a sweat?
Didnt the original script have three aliens?
obviously someone down the line thought more aliens dying faster and a retarded reproduction cycle would make the movie hardcore and of course, back to the roots.
Someone really needs to make a cartoon picture of the brothers blowing Wolf...dead serious...
Quote from: Spaghetti on Nov 14, 2007, 05:13:28 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 14, 2007, 05:05:47 AM
Why the hell couldn't they have looked great and also had the predator struggle his ass off against them as opposed to not breaking a sweat?
Didnt the original script have three aliens?
obviously someone down the line thought more aliens dying faster and a retarded reproduction cycle would make the movie hardcore and of course, back to the roots.
no but, the original script had more facehuggers.
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 13, 2007, 04:07:40 AM
So now the Aliens can teleport and time travel AND spray gazllions of tons of hive crap around in 20-30 minutes?
In fairness, '
Alien Resurrection' appeared to show just as much resin mysteriously wallpapered everywhere in a short amount of time, if not more so.
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Nov 13, 2007, 04:46:16 AM
Exactly, and who knows, maybe the Alien's resin continuously spreads once it has been applied, which would explain how the sacrificial chamber is covered in it so quickly.
Some sort of 'viral'/fungal autonomous spread is an interesting idea. Would hark back to the red weed from '
War Of The Worlds' and might even explain the weirdness of the 'Viper Pit' stuff, in regards to human contamination.
Quote from: Gates on Nov 14, 2007, 05:15:03 AM
Someone really needs to make a cartoon picture of the brothers blowing Wolf...dead serious...
Oh...kay... :-X
Quote
In fairness, 'Alien Resurrection' appeared to show just as much resin mysteriously wallpapered everywhere in a short amount of time, if not more so.
Except we have missing aliens to account for that. Zerg creep still doesn't account for copius widespread dust.
Sil: Do show dropped equipment and prove that it isn't verheiden's or miller's or better yet how bout dead Rossaeau and Parks and guards splayed out on the side of the room. I'm perfectly willing to concede if I'm wrong.
YA:
I'm well aware of what the script says. I'm also well aware Grid and Scar don't have a girlie slapfight in the snow after the pred device goes off. If what is in movie contradicts what it is in script, then what is in scirpt is right defenstrated, and again explain how we get a cave-y style hole where a door-y style hole used to be
FF:
The ony CGI used is Spike's head going pop; much the same as people saying AVP queen's tirade is CGI, when it was actually animatronic.
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 14, 2007, 08:32:13 AM
Sil: Do show dropped equipment and prove that it isn't verheiden's or miller's or better yet how bout dead Rossaeau and Parks and guards splayed out on the side of the room. I'm perfectly willing to concede if I'm wrong.
Miller and Verheiden weren't carrying any equipment, just their weapons. Watch the scene where the crew gets face-hugged, and you'll see that the equipment lying around is the same. Add to that the mummified corpses laying on raised slabs ...
Poor Lara Croft... One of those ancient cadavers is probably meant to be the Karima Adebibe one.
Except she was in the pyramid in central America which went boom.
QuoteAdd to that the mummified corpses laying on raised slabs ...
Given the age and roulette configuration that's not adding much. and no rosseau/parks.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 14, 2007, 08:43:06 AM
Except she was in the pyramid in central America which went boom.
Ahh, truesome!
She went nova.
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 14, 2007, 08:48:27 AM
Given the age and roulette configuration that's not adding much.
There was only one sacrificial chamber.
Quoteand no rosseau/parks.
We don't see the entire room. And they may have been covered over by the hive goo.
QuoteThere was only one sacrificial chamber.
Quote? Do tell.
Quoteand no rosseau/parks.
We don't see the entire room. And they may have been covered over by the hive goo.
We see each corner, and um ROFL, don't recall Scar or Lex tripping over any mounds.
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 14, 2007, 08:56:24 AM
Quote? Do tell.
Miller: This must be
the sacrificial chamber.
Admittedly, they didn't see the entire pyramid, but more than one chamber would be somewhat superfluous.
QuoteWe see each corner, and um ROFL, don't recall Scar or Lex tripping over any mounds.
There's almost always some obstruction. And um ROFL, they didn't walk through the entire room. The first Aliens clearly had time to tie up the others before they popped, and there was another adjoining chamber to the sacrificial chamber with skulls and spines lining the walls.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 14, 2007, 09:00:04 AM
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 14, 2007, 08:56:24 AM
Quote? Do tell.
Miller: This must be the sacrificial chamber.
Admittedly, they didn't see the entire pyramid, but more than one chamber would be somewhat superfluous.
QuoteWe see each corner, and um ROFL, don't recall Scar or Lex tripping over any mounds.
There's almost always some obstruction. And um ROFL, they didn't walk through the entire room. The first Aliens clearly had time to tie up the others before they popped, and there was another adjoining chamber to the sacrificial chamber with skulls and spines lining the walls.
Circumstantial at best. and they walk from in to sebastian to out. PPOR.
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 14, 2007, 08:48:27 AM
QuoteAdd to that the mummified corpses laying on raised slabs ...
Given the age and roulette configuration that's not adding much. and no rosseau/parks.
Rousseau is on the floor, on the right side, right at the tunnel entrance... ;)
QuoteIn fairness, 'Alien Resurrection' appeared to show just as much resin mysteriously wallpapered everywhere in a short amount of time, if not more so.
There's about 90 minutes between the Aliens escape and the Auriga crash and we only see the hive towards the end of that 90 minutes (apart from the gunk in the lift well).
In AvP there's about 15 minutes. And during that time Aliens are growing from burster to adult and abducting people at the same time.
QuoteSome sort of 'viral'/fungal autonomous spread is an interesting idea.
Been saying that for 10 years.
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 14, 2007, 09:45:07 AM
Circumstantial at best. and they walk from in to sebastian to out. PPOR.
Considering the amount of evidence pointing towards the sacrificial chamber being the hive, the "PPOR" should really be aimed towards your own good self.
The burden is the arguer, not the arguee.
AND
I'm not trying to evangelize. I've already made up my mind.
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 15, 2007, 07:59:54 AM
The burden is the arguer, not the arguee.
You were the one claiming that the two locations were different, despite the visual and anecdotal evidence.
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 13, 2007, 03:18:27 AM
The sacrificial chamber and the "hive" are in completely different areas, and there's no mechanism/trap doors/steps leading to the "hive."
Furthermore you get some nice shots of the ground and there are no squares in a circular pattern in the floor, nor the ceiling.
And others have pointed out that you were incorrect. That puts it back on to you to show some kind,
any kind of evidence that your claim is accurate.
QuoteI'm not trying to evangelize. I've already made up my mind.
Most people who evangelize have 'made up their mind'. Usually tends to be
why they do it.
Anyway, if you're mind is set no matter the contrary evidence, I guess we're done.
really? cause I think I stated a lack of explorer bodies, dust, no ceiling holes and a complete transfiguration of the entrance.
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 16, 2007, 05:27:08 AM
really? cause I think I stated a lack of explorer bodies,
Yet ignored the fact that the area is overgrown, that we don't see the entire room, and that there's an adjoining chamber.
Quotedust
Yeah, cos dust is gonna instantly appear on new stuff in an underground pyramid. Oh wait...
Quoteno ceiling holes
We never see the ceiling.
Quoteand a complete transfiguration of the entrance.
Which is easily accountable by the build up of hive gunk over it.
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 16, 2007, 05:27:08 AM
no ceiling holes
Despite the fact that we don't get to see the ceiling, I'm still left wondering
why you think there should be holes in it.
Covered by gunk makes the hole larger? k.
The pictures stated combined with prepro pictures give a rather expansive view of the entire room which isn't contradicted by the events and sequencing in the film. the end.
Layers of dust.
Okay, I'll ask it stright out this time...
Why do you say that there are supposed to be holes in the ceiling?
I'm sure there weren't actually hundreds of thousands of eggs in the Derelict hold set - Just 300 or so styrofoam ones.
And I'm
certain they didn't cocoon 156 or so colonists to the sets in
Aliens - Oh man! Where did all those other people go? They aren't there!
QuoteThe pictures stated combined with prepro pictures give a rather expansive view of the entire room which isn't contradicted by the events and sequencing in the film. the end.
But which provide ample evidence that it
is the same room.
Despite the fact that we have the script, novel, and pictures blatantly showing the mummified corpses seen previously, you still believe it is a different room...
He doesn't believe it...he knows it. ;)
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Nov 16, 2007, 05:44:33 AM
Okay, I'll ask it stright out this time...
Why do you say that there are supposed to be holes in the ceiling?
For egress and exit of pillars. and I stated floor/ceiling, originally.
Quotescript, novel
You show me the part of the FILM where Grid and Scar have a giant hissysissy fight in the snow after the Predbomb goes off, and I'll start considering the script or novel or both, despite the fact much of it ended up on the trash heap. Until then thanx for playing.
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 16, 2007, 05:50:17 AM
For egress and exit of pillars. and I stated floor/ceiling, originally.
So, the pillars which come out of the floor, and are never seen going into the ceiling?
Anyway, why are we arguing over a ceiling we can't see? ;)
You tell me.
Novels always have the deleted scenes in them. Fans always uses the novels to back up claims they make. The script that is online is the final script, the one that was used for filming. So ya, those do mean something. But obviously the biggest piece of evidence is the film itself, which we have already pointed out.
Plus, if the egg chamber was really a different room, than how did Lex and Scar find their way out of the pyramid so damn quick? The sacrificial chamber was very close to the entrance, hence why they were able to find their way out.
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 16, 2007, 05:53:15 AM
You tell me.
'Cause you keep bringing up the supposed ceiling-holes, and I'm an idiot.
wrong topic, no?
Ya, but who cares :P
Yall back off my boy now or its gonna get hostile.
Which one is 'your boy' and how long have y'all been life partners?
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Nov 16, 2007, 05:58:07 AM
Novels always have the deleted scenes in them. Fans always uses the novels to back up claims they make. The script that is online is the final script, the one that was used for filming. So ya, those do mean something. But obviously the biggest piece of evidence is the film itself, which we have already pointed out.
Plus, if the egg chamber was really a different room, than how did Lex and Scar find their way out of the pyramid so damn quick? The sacrificial chamber was very close to the entrance, hence why they were able to find their way out.
Explain to me to me how a sledtow can beat a release of expanding gas traveling at an excess of 500 m/s and perhaps you'll have also answered your own question.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Nov 16, 2007, 06:11:51 AM
Which one is 'your boy' and how long have y'all been life partners?
Jealous much?
A bit.
But only a little bit. ;)
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 16, 2007, 05:50:17 AM
You show me the part of the FILM where Grid and Scar have a giant hissysissy fight in the snow after the Predbomb goes off
Uh, you show US the part where that happens in the script or novel.
Cos it doesn't.
They square off to have a fight; Lex goads Scar onto the sled before they can fight, and Grid reaches the mouth of the tunnel just in time to turn around and be hit by the explosion. The shot of Grid on the surface was even filmed.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Nov 16, 2007, 06:11:51 AM
Which one is 'your boy' and how long have y'all been life partners?
My russian mail order bride is still overseas in the luggage department of some plane. Sorry to disappoint.
Grid and Scar were filmed and blocked FIGHTING on the surface.... there are three pics, two of which are combat. Which as you are so keen to point out, AREN'T in the script.
I do thank you for making my point for me
+1.
Know where to find these pictures?
And really, you've not yet come up with anything more solid than 'The people aren't there'.
If you're keen to dig through these pages, knock yourself out. I've already come to my basic conclusion and I've seen some evidence that can play to the contrary but not enough to change my mind, which has only taken you like 11 pages to NOT figure out.
If you're so terribly concerned about changing my opinion by all means, spend the next couple of days digging through thousands of posts:
http://gamegossip.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=48 (http://gamegossip.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=48)
Links to the pics are there. Picking a a date close to the movie's release may help.
If 'there are no dead people' is more than enough for you to ignore every single other piece of contrary evidence - Namely, pretty much everything else - then no, there is no point. But I do so like trying to move brick walls some times, especially when they don't have to be so thick.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/avp-movies/avp-movie/deleted-scenes/2/ (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/avp-movies/avp-movie/deleted-scenes/2/)
I think I saw those screenshots of Grid and Scar on the surface. I don't remember where I saw them.
This image from the HBO behind-the-scenes show I think proves the scene was filmed:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/images/films/avp1/deleted/avpdeleted30.jpg)
I would like to see Grid vs Scar more than Scar + Lex vs Queen.
Okay, this should do the trick. A bunch of shots of the sacrificial chamber set being dressed to shoot Miller's hugging scene. We have lotsa eggs, sacrificial tablets, mummified corpses, a dead Rousseau dummy, all the teams equipment lying around, and Miller on the wall.
If this doesn't prove it once and for all, then I don't know what will.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg235.imageshack.us%2Fimg235%2F708%2Fchamberex3.jpg&hash=efec5022927c978695eeffa94578f854207d7f92)
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Nov 16, 2007, 10:59:07 AM
Okay, this should do the trick. A bunch of shots of the sacrificial chamber set being dressed to shoot Miller's hugging scene. We have lotsa eggs, sacrificial tablets, mummified corpses, a dead Rousseau dummy, all the teams equipment lying around, and Miller on the wall.
If this doesn't prove it once and for all, then I don't know what will.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg235.imageshack.us%2Fimg235%2F708%2Fchamberex3.jpg&hash=efec5022927c978695eeffa94578f854207d7f92)
That pretty much proves it.
I don't see anything in that picture to prove it was meant to be on the surface. :-\
It might have been, of course. There is at least one interview or article (buggered if I can find it, these days) which refers to the scene of Predators stepping out of cryotubes being filmed and the creature effects book has a caption by the naked Predator costumes of them being made specifically for that.
Some things were filmed and still have not been seen.
It's a lot like the infamous scene in 'Alien', where the creature apparently unfolds from its guise as a weird box thing, as represented in the comic. It's never been on any official print of the thing or deleted scenes in any of its many versions.
Chets reproduction method has been hereditated from the Predator DNA
ITS CONFIRMED
Where did you hear this? And if it is true, that is f**king stupid. If it was like that, the human Aliens should be able to have sex.
Quotef it was like that, the human Aliens should be able to have sex.
Maybe they are able, who knows.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=7885.msg146949#msg146949 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=7885.msg146949#msg146949)
QuoteMore significantly, its Predator DNA has changed the Alien's method of procreation - instead of the creature's traditional Queen-egg-face-hugger-chest-burster-adult cycle, the Predalien regurgitates chest-burster embryos ... into the mouths of their victims.
I was going to post a massive tirade but really I think it could all be summed up with 1 word. "UGH".
So the predators hump each other by way of mouth?
.....................wtf mate.
189 :(
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
I knew this would eventually happen. This movie is getting ridiculous.
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Nov 16, 2007, 06:06:43 PM
Quotef it was like that, the human Aliens should be able to have sex.
Maybe they are able, who knows.
Aliens Book 2 novelization (Nightmare Asylum) very briefly mentions that male aliens exist, a few for every 100 or so. Although they could mate, they were sterile. It was probably a vestigial trait. Totally non-canon of course.
Cameron's thoughts on how Hadley's Hope was overrun in Aliens states that all of the warriors are males, with only the Queen being female.
Quote from: slipknotpredator on Nov 16, 2007, 06:00:16 PM
Chets reproduction method has been hereditated from the Predator DNA
ITS CONFIRMED
There is nothing official about it. Non-canon, and this reproduction method has been confirmed by colin strause to be the official reproduction method of any immature Queen.
Nothing to do with the Pred DNA, and looking at their mouths I would say blowjobs are NOT the way they reproduce.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Nov 16, 2007, 06:32:26 PM
So the predators hump each other by way of mouth?
.....................wtf mate.
wait...for realz?
wow this cant be right.
Quote from: Meathead320 on Nov 16, 2007, 07:05:43 PMThere is nothing official about it. Non-canon, and this reproduction method has been confirmed by colin strause to be the official reproduction method of any immature Queen.
He mentioned at a convention that it could have to do with Predator DNA after he made the comment here about the creature being an immature Queen. The article only confirms this. It's yet to be seen if this is a retcon of the comment he's made here or if it just compliments it.
Nothing has been confirmed. It was just the reporter's interpretation. No quotes in the article.
There weren't any quotes in the USA Today article about the PredAlien reproduction method either, until Colin came forward with his confirmation.
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Nov 16, 2007, 07:13:58 PM
There weren't any quotes in the USA Today article about the PredAlien reproduction method either, until Colin came forward with his confirmation.
That was an entirely new thing, though. This just sounds like an effort to make sense of how something is meant to happen, for the reader's benefit.
At most, I would imagine they've seen what an immense atmosphere of confusion the whole thing has provoked and grabbed for the one theory which keeps on getting raised.
Until I see something to the contrary, I'm just can't escape the feeling that an awful lot of ideas were getting tossed into this film without proper consideration for the consequences of both series, as a whole.
Quote from: Accaris on Nov 16, 2007, 06:49:42 PM
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Nov 16, 2007, 06:06:43 PM
Quotef it was like that, the human Aliens should be able to have sex.
Maybe they are able, who knows.
Aliens Book 2 novelization (Nightmare Asylum) very briefly mentions that male aliens exist, a few for every 100 or so. Although they could mate, they were sterile. It was probably a vestigial trait. Totally non-canon of course.
That would make sense.
On the predalien inheriting the trait from the Preds I think that is the only logical conclusion. Otherwise it wouldn't make any sense. IF this is the case they've seriously screwed over the Preds. :P
I don't feel like searching all the way back can anyone clarify the reproduction method its a little blurry. lol something about throwing up?
Quote from: Janke on Nov 17, 2007, 05:50:25 AM
I don't feel like searching all the way back can anyone clarify the reproduction method its a little blurry. lol something about throwing up?
In short, the new Predalien will be able to implant embryos into people without the use of facehuggers. She puts a tube down a person's throat and forces an embryo directly into the person.
As of yet, the directors have given no official explanation as to why these changes have been made, But Colin Struass has hinted that the reason is because she is a young queen and that is how the young queens operate.
Quote from: automirage04 on Nov 17, 2007, 06:03:32 AM
Quote from: Janke on Nov 17, 2007, 05:50:25 AM
I don't feel like searching all the way back can anyone clarify the reproduction method its a little blurry. lol something about throwing up?
In short, the new Predalien will be able to implant embryos into people without the use of facehuggers. She puts a tube down a person's throat and forces an embryo directly into the person.
As of yet, the directors have given no official explanation as to why these changes have been made, But Colin Struass has hinted that the reason is because she is a young queen and that is how the young queens operate.
thanks a bunch i appreciate that. soooooo thats a little weird kinda species/ 28 weeks later
i think it works in those movies. guess we will have to see. does this so called tube come out of the second snapper moth thing? thats crazy
Quote from: Janke on Nov 17, 2007, 06:08:50 AM
thanks a bunch i appreciate that. soooooo thats a little weird kinda species...
Sil reproduced by good ol' fashioned boning. I really don't get why people keep mentioning Species in relation to the new reproduction method.
I did no such thing!
..oh, wait.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 17, 2007, 08:46:51 AM
I did no such thing!
I always kinda suspected you were an atypical reproducer. ;)
They're on to me!
QuoteSil reproduced by good ol' fashioned boning. I really don't get why people keep mentioning Species in relation to the new reproduction method
Probably because they are thinking of that scene in species 2 where the retarded looking male alien thing chokes the female to death with his cock.
Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Nov 17, 2007, 03:12:34 PM
QuoteSil reproduced by good ol' fashioned boning. I really don't get why people keep mentioning Species in relation to the new reproduction method
Probably because they are thinking of that scene in species 2 where the retarded looking male alien thing chokes the female to death with his cock.
Pfft. Like no one else here has ever had to smack a ho down with his member before.
Quote from: Janke on Nov 17, 2007, 06:08:50 AM
does this so called tube come out of the second snapper moth thing?
The inner mouth is going to
be the ovipositor, most probably.
I hate this idea as much as Scars face.
Quote from: Master on Nov 17, 2007, 07:30:20 PM
I hate this idea as much as Scars face.
damn dude...thats harsh. But your probably right.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 16, 2007, 03:15:42 PM
I don't see anything in that picture to prove it was meant to be on the surface. :-\
It might have been, of course. There is at least one interview or article (buggered if I can find it, these days) which refers to the scene of Predators stepping out of cryotubes being filmed and the creature effects book has a caption by the naked Predator costumes of them being made specifically for that.
Some things were filmed and still have not been seen.
It's a lot like the infamous scene in 'Alien', where the creature apparently unfolds from its guise as a weird box thing, as represented in the comic. It's never been on any official print of the thing or deleted scenes in any of its many versions.
You can see snow and night sky in the other pictures. As in after the escape.
UA/YA: If it's not in the final print of the
movie; I could care less. The out-of-universe blocking is rather obvious,and of course it's sensical and rather logical to save money by reusing what's already there and it's equally obvious what they planned to do... still doesn't expain the differing walls fore and aft, the lack of bodies and the completely different entrance that isn't terribly like any other structure in the pyrmid. and all I have to say is the Aliens moved the bodies they could have moved the equipment, too.. where's the
in-movie screen cap? There isn't one. As I've said. Intentions versus finished edited and filmed product are rather vast. The HBO byline states the photos are for the filmed final fight scene before the Queen emerges fromt he snow. But again, as the with the former... they
aren't.
in
the movie.
Nowhere to be found.
And therefore of no use to me for the purposes of arguing.
Get it?
If it's not in film, it doesn't matter.
The End.
There's nothing in the film to say it's a different room. All logical evidence points to it being the same room.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 18, 2007, 08:46:06 AM
There's nothing in the film to say it's a different room. All logical evidence points to it being the same room.
There's a shitload OoU to say it's the "same" room because it the same floor set redressed wtih new walls and spacing for Mr. Whyte to avoid breaking his neck. Gotcha. Was never an issue.
There's little
in film..
Do not collect $200.
Yes Xhan, I agree...the Aliens moved all the team's equipment, Rousseau's corpse, and all the mummified former hosts into a room that also contains identical sacrificial alters to those in the sacrificial chamber.
While it's common practice to redress a set to double as a different location, it'd be highly unusual to only redress it partially, and to leave all the props from the previous scene still lying around. When they redress the bridge on Star Trek, they usually don't leave the Captain sitting in his chair.
I thought you were just after evidence to prove it one way or t'other, but now I realise you were never going to sway, no matter if Anderson himself came here and told you point blank that they were the same room. You obviously can't fathom what's right in front of you, no matter the evidence, so I won't bother to try and educate you any longer.
As you say; "The End."
Actually I can't fathom using a screencap to show a dead guy or girl in matching orangey or powder blue parkas to do exactly as previously stated like thirteen PAGES ago.
If Anderson directly addressed there wouldn't be a need to discuss it.
See how the game works now?
It's not in the film. And has no THEMATIC support. I never asked for OoU as it's rather *&^*&%^* obvious wht it is behind the scenes.
Just like the fact that are more Aliens than hosts, ergo some old ass Aliens be in here. On film. In stone.
You still ignoring the dead bodies and equipment that the team brought in. And behind the scenes photos shouldn't count any more than what's written in the script, which is sacrificial chamber.
Your excuse is lame, Xhan. You say just because it isn't blatantly explained in the film, then it is not true, even though it is in the script. ::) Ever hear of subtlety? We don't have to be explained what the room is. The audience figures it out on their own. We put the pieces together. The Aliens were born in the sacrificial chamber, so it makes sense they would start their hive there. The sacrificial alters are seen, along with the mummified corpses. The equipment is seen as well. The fact that Lex and Scar are able to make it out before the bomb explodes shows that they were near the entrance, which is where the sacrificial chamber is.
I'm still waiting for Alien 5 starring Hudson and Apone. I mean, we don't see 'em die ...
Quote from: SiL on Nov 18, 2007, 08:26:21 PM
I'm still waiting for Alien 5 starring Hudson and Apone. I mean, we don't see 'em die ...
:D
Yep, because if it isn't shown in the movie, it doesn't count. ;)
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Did SiL just say that? Really? lol
Quote from: SiL on Nov 18, 2007, 08:26:21 PM
I'm still waiting for Alien 5 starring Hudson and Apone. I mean, we don't see 'em die ...
QuoteYou can't apply real-world facts to the island. Anderson's intention was that she would sink and sink and sink and then be a dead bitch, and despite whatever real evidence there may be against that, in-movie evidence says she deeeead.
Two snakes intertwined on a pole.
Except in the world Anderson created, it's the same room.
What's your new excuse, by the way? There's clearly a dead Rouseau dummy on the set, so ... what makes it a new room now?
Well the new reproduction implantation sounds more horriefieing than ever. Think about it, it got me chills, something I haven't gotten since Alien, and Aliens. A predalien leaps on you, connects its mandibles over you face as you try to get it off you, it's facehugger like tube, starts to squish around trying to get it's self into your mouth, then you fail, and the process happens. THats really bizzar and messed up, I don't think anyone could make a better idea than that, unless it's Giger himself.
Quote from: Plokoon111 on Nov 20, 2007, 04:45:45 AM
Well the new reproduction implantation sounds more horriefieing than ever. Think about it, it got me chills, something I haven't gotten since Alien, and Aliens. A predalien leaps on you, connects its mandibles over you face as you try to get it off you, it's facehugger like tube, starts to squish around trying to get it's self into your mouth, then you fail, and the process happens. THats really bizzar and messed up, I don't think anyone could make a better idea than that, unless it's Giger himself.
Kinda like being french kissed by the Predalien. I think I will have nightmares about it tonight.
:(
Whereas being in a mandible lock with another creature in the film is a different story....
ahh nice dreams.
:D
Quote from: Plokoon111 on Nov 20, 2007, 04:45:45 AM
Well the new reproduction implantation sounds more horriefieing than ever. Think about it, it got me chills, something I haven't gotten since Alien, and Aliens. A predalien leaps on you, connects its mandibles over you face as you try to get it off you, it's facehugger like tube, starts to squish around trying to get it's self into your mouth, then you fail, and the process happens. THats really bizzar and messed up, I don't think anyone could make a better idea than that, unless it's Giger himself.
Yeah its kinda got the sexual mystique back i guess, even if its discusting, atleast with the facehugger it left it up to your imagination of what it looks like and what its doing.
ugh, that discription almost made me gag(not that its retarded, but that its REALLY creepy and disturbing)
Quote from: megachu17 on Nov 20, 2007, 04:55:32 AM
ugh, that discription almost made me gag(not that its retarded, but that its REALLY creepy and disturbing)
Ugh yes, quite disturbing indeed, only because of the final result.
There's already a thread about the reproduction method. (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=7284.2850)
It's really not that bad of an idea, although i will miss the eggs tho and im not quite shure how she manages to do that to 1,000+ people in less than a night(ASSUMING)
Quote from: SM on Nov 20, 2007, 04:59:56 AM
There's already a thread about the reproduction method. (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=7284.2850)
Oops!
Personally the idea of the facehugger wrapping itself around me is more horrifying, but then I find it hard to be scared or disgusted by things I find funny.
Yeah the queen herself putting her self in risks way isnt a good idea, you need something small and sneaky (facehugger)
they're both creepy, but atleast facehuggers r muciful enough to put u into a coma while theyre doing it...the predalien...id rather it just kill me there
Quote from: SiL on Nov 20, 2007, 05:01:51 AM
Personally the idea of the facehugger wrapping itself around me is more horrifying, but then I find it hard to be scared or disgusted by things I find funny.
Flying vaginas..yeah rotflol
Quote from: megachu17 on Nov 20, 2007, 05:06:48 AM
they're both creepy, but atleast facehuggers r muciful enough to put u into a coma while theyre doing it...the predalien...id rather it just kill me there
yeah its preferrable to her sticking her tongue down your throat.
Kill me now please.
nah id shoot maself (if i had a gun) before she could get that thing close to me ;D
^^ ;D well, if i had a gun id be shooting her, not myself...but i wouldnt be lik the stupid guy at the end of resident evil 2, id sav a bullet for me just in case...
Quote from: megachu17 on Nov 20, 2007, 05:16:32 AM
^^ ;D well, if i had a gun id be shooting her, not myself...but i wouldnt be lik the stupid guy at the end of resident evil 2, id sav a bullet for me just in case...
haha yeah, but if he got right up close id just shoot myself, no point in shootin her then acid shower, still doesnt mean i would try to kill her anyway.
Me too! I'd do my best shooting her before she got to me, but making sure I had one bullet left for me just in case.
Ew. What if the predalien impregnated by jamming its inner jaw down your mouth and vomiting embryo's. Would be very disturbing and sexual. EWWWWWWWWWWW! stop it
Quote from: gases on Nov 20, 2007, 05:29:29 AM
Ew. What if the predalien impregnated by jamming its inner jaw down your mouth and vomiting embryo's. Would be very disturbing and sexual. EWWWWWWWWWWW! stop it
Thats what it does.
yummy
Its not, vomit, its most likely a tube like thing.
a tubelike thing similar to the facehuggers that deposits the 'egg' inside you.
Thereby making facehuggers redundant.
Nice one.
exept for the fact that using facehugger mean multipul hosts can be impregnated at the same time without puting the queen in danger. showing ur ignorance. nice.
^^Poor Chet has a hell of a job in front of her, impregnating a good portion of Gunnison. I hope they don't show her falling asleep constantly... ;D
Quote from: megachu17 on Nov 20, 2007, 05:49:03 AM
exept for the fact that using facehugger mean multipul hosts can be impregnated at the same time without puting the queen in danger. showing ur ignorance. nice.
yes it's not the greatest idea, making the queen more vulnerable. I prefer face huggers because it makes them more dangerous than one running around french kissing its victims.
and its mor effective, chet can only be in 1 place at a time, u can hav 50 facehuggers goin off in different directions all at once, but it maks sence that the predalien would want some bodygardes around b4 she starts laying eggs.
Quote from: SM on Nov 20, 2007, 05:45:18 AM
Thereby making facehuggers redundant.
Nice one.
I still think facehuggers are more effective,they are small and fast and you never see them coming until its too late.
Quote from: Wolfs Girl on Nov 20, 2007, 05:53:17 AM
Quote from: megachu17 on Nov 20, 2007, 05:49:03 AM
exept for the fact that using facehugger mean multipul hosts can be impregnated at the same time without puting the queen in danger. showing ur ignorance. nice.
yes it's not the greatest idea, making the queen more vulnerable. I prefer face huggers because it makes them more dangerous than one running around french kissing its victims.
Chet just wants to be loved...we all deserve to be loved ;D ;)
awww, you're so right there.
lol, she just wants 2 be loved...and 2 rape ur face...is that so wrong?
Quote from: megachu17 on Nov 20, 2007, 05:59:43 AM
lol, she just wants 2 be loved...and 2 rape ur face...is that so wrong?
No it isnt...No it isnt.......we al express are love in some way.....her way is just a bit more grotesque. ;D ;)
Well yeah, if by 'grotesque' you mean 'completely and utterly lame'.
Quoteand its mor effective, chet can only be in 1 place at a time, u can hav 50 facehuggers goin off in different directions all at once, but it maks sence that the predalien would want some bodygardes around b4 she starts laying eggs.
:D
If she plonks herself some place warm and starts laying eggs - instant protection. No need to ignore the established rules and make shit up to (once again) solve problems that never even existed.
"Ignorance" - yeah like you have a clue.
The biggest insult to injury is that the Bros' back-flipping weeks later showed they didn't actually put much more thought into it other than 'add new shit'.
Quote from: megachu17 on Nov 20, 2007, 05:49:03 AM
exept for the fact that using facehugger mean multipul hosts can be impregnated at the same time without puting the queen in danger. showing ur ignorance. nice.
face hugger takes how much time to rape you???... stiks with you and dies...???
what is chet... rapes you in 5 seconds??? and goes away.... predatoring the posible host... i mean she is in a hospital... with un-dangerous and un-armed people.
Quote from: ArielAleXCo on Nov 20, 2007, 06:15:09 AM
Quote from: megachu17 on Nov 20, 2007, 05:49:03 AM
exept for the fact that using facehugger mean multipul hosts can be impregnated at the same time without puting the queen in danger. showing ur ignorance. nice.
face hugger takes how much time to rape you???... stiks with you and dies...???
what is chet... rapes you in 5 seconds??? and goes away.... predatoring the posible host... i mean she is in a hospital... with un-dangerous and un-armed people.
shes having a field day :D :D :D
*Laughing at the title of this thread*
But at the time of the Queens lifecycle in this movie, she can't lay eggs, which is why she's using this method. The queen uses common sense, lets she shes in a town, she sneaks around, whos going to much of a threat? A cop? THe rest of the town would be scared, not counting the sherrif.
Just sounds to much of what a earth movie monster would do.
Quote from: PredatorBruth on Nov 20, 2007, 05:21:09 AM
Quote from: megachu17 on Nov 20, 2007, 05:16:32 AM
^^ ;D well, if i had a gun id be shooting her, not myself...but i wouldnt be lik the stupid guy at the end of resident evil 2, id sav a bullet for me just in case...
haha yeah, but if he got right up close id just shoot myself, no point in shootin her then acid shower, still doesnt mean i would try to kill her anyway.
If i had w shotgun with one bullet and Chet in front of me, I would wait and lett her come close enough to be shure that I`ll blast her fu<king head of even if it would cost accid spray death. When I kill the Queen, destroying rest of Aliens wouldn`t be so hard cause new ones won`t be produced. Also it is better to die on your feets then live on knees.
QuoteAliens going back to Alien style?
About stupid swarm monster that are attacking in waves? Yes.
About great characters, settings, environment etc. etc.? No.
Quote from: Master on Nov 20, 2007, 11:27:37 AM
Quote from: PredatorBruth on Nov 20, 2007, 05:21:09 AM
Quote from: megachu17 on Nov 20, 2007, 05:16:32 AM
^^ ;D well, if i had a gun id be shooting her, not myself...but i wouldnt be lik the stupid guy at the end of resident evil 2, id sav a bullet for me just in case...
haha yeah, but if he got right up close id just shoot myself, no point in shootin her then acid shower, still doesnt mean i would try to kill her anyway.
If i had w shotgun with one bullet and Chet in front of me, I would wait and lett her come close enough to be shure that I`ll blast her fu<king head of even if it would cost accid spray death. When I kill the Queen, destroying rest of Aliens wouldn`t be so hard cause new ones won`t be produced. Also it is better to die on your feets then live on knees.
QuoteAliens going back to Alien style?
About stupid swarm monster that are attacking in waves? Yes.
About great characters, settings, environment etc. etc.? No.
Haha yeah if ya gonna go, take the bitch with ya!!
Well,i like your idea about how much terrifieing is the new reproduction cycle but if the PredAlien tries to do that on a Predator,he will be exposed and may get injured.This can happen even if he tries to puke into an let's say a Marine.
I don't think that the PredAlien will puke embrios in unisolated host.
I mean he must find an ISOLATED one to do this.
Otherwise he's dead meat.
I still think that the facehuggers are a better idea. ;)
Quote from: Plokoon111 on Nov 20, 2007, 04:45:45 AM
Well the new reproduction implantation sounds more horriefieing than ever. Think about it, it got me chills, something I haven't gotten since Alien, and Aliens. A predalien leaps on you, connects its mandibles over you face as you try to get it off you, it's facehugger like tube, starts to squish around trying to get it's self into your mouth, then you fail, and the process happens. THats really bizzar and messed up, I don't think anyone could make a better idea than that, unless it's Giger himself.
No, it was the Strause's retarded idea.
It never sent chills down my spine... it just made me pissed off at the fact that they have just bastardized the Alien reproduction.
The predaliens reproductive method is dumb, dumb, dumb. :'(
I just feel like they wanted to add some new stupid bullshit so they could put there mark (stain) on the alien.
Hopefully it is never used again.
Back to topic:
Maybe ( but only maybe) we see whole thing joined to " Predaliens regurgitating reproduction method" a little bit wrong.
If brothers/Fox wanted creature to use new method of reproduceing, why they added facehuggers to this film? I`ve come up to idea that regurgitating can be used more litteraly:
- We don`t know how many huggers in on board of Pred ship.
- We do know that both huggers and PQ will survive crashland near Guannison.
- We have seen a group of chestbursters in kind of nest.
So maybe PQ is not just impragnation people via her mouth but rather kill and eat people. Then go back to the nest were chestbursters are (from normal huggers), and regurgitate flesh for them. Chestbursters need to eat in order to grow to adult form ( I know it is not canon but we`ve seen it in AvP2 game). Maybe whole process is used to make them grow faster and earlier become the guardians for Queen, who can now safetly start to grow her egg sack.
Support to this opinion is fact that we do not have any other predalien. If she can reproduce via mouth to mouth, she could easily implanted injured preds on board of scaut ship.
If only it was like that. Unfortunately, it's not - She reproduces by vomiting embryos in people's mouths. That's where the babies come from. Hence the title of the thread. And the past 190-odd pages.
Quote from: Master on Nov 20, 2007, 08:39:38 PM
Back to topic:
Maybe ( but only maybe) we see whole thing joined to " Predaliens regurgitating reproduction method" a little bit wrong.
If brothers/Fox wanted creature to use new method of reproduceing, why they added facehuggers to this film? I`ve come up to idea that regurgitating can be used more litteraly:
- We don`t know how many huggers in on board of Pred ship.
- We do know that both huggers and PQ will survive crashland near Guannison.
- We have seen a group of chestbursters in kind of nest.
So maybe PQ is not just impragnation people via her mouth but rather kill and eat people. Then go back to the nest were chestbursters are (from normal huggers), and regurgitate flesh for them. Chestbursters need to eat in order to grow to adult form ( I know it is not canon but we`ve seen it in AvP2 game). Maybe whole process is used to make them grow faster and earlier become the guardians for Queen, who can now safetly start to grow her egg sack.
Support to this opinion is fact that we do not have any other predalien. If she can reproduce via mouth to mouth, she could easily implanted injured preds on board of scaut ship.
Wishful thinking. :'(
I know Sil I`ve read most of those 190. But it can be our interpretation of something that is slightly different. FOX didn`t contradicted our way of thinking in order to keep surprise in secret.
Quote from: Master on Nov 20, 2007, 08:39:38 PM
Back to topic:
Maybe ( but only maybe) we see whole thing joined to " Predaliens regurgitating reproduction method" a little bit wrong.
If brothers/Fox wanted creature to use new method of reproduceing, why they added facehuggers to this film? I`ve come up to idea that regurgitating can be used more litteraly:
- We don`t know how many huggers in on board of Pred ship.
- We do know that both huggers and PQ will survive crashland near Guannison.
- We have seen a group of chestbursters in kind of nest.
So maybe PQ is not just impragnation people via her mouth but rather kill and eat people. Then go back to the nest were chestbursters are (from normal huggers), and regurgitate flesh for them. Chestbursters need to eat in order to grow to adult form ( I know it is not canon but we`ve seen it in AvP2 game). Maybe whole process is used to make them grow faster and earlier become the guardians for Queen, who can now safetly start to grow her egg sack.
Support to this opinion is fact that we do not have any other predalien. If she can reproduce via mouth to mouth, she could easily implanted injured preds on board of scaut ship.
Hope you are right, but I don't think thats likely. I think the Bros have been pretty clear on the changes thhey have made, to the point of actually defending themselves.
I don't think I would have had a problem with this idea if it had been introduced in Alien, but its just too late to get away with changing canon now :P
QuoteBut at the time of the Queens lifecycle in this movie, she can't lay eggs, which is why she's using this method.
Queens are born Queens and can produce within days of birth. Instead of this bullshit wank of 'creating an army', she just needs to abduct people for when she does start laying eggs.
QuoteThe queen uses common sense, lets she shes in a town, she sneaks around, whos going to much of a threat? A cop? THe rest of the town would be scared, not counting the sherrif.
What point are you trying to make here?
They should have brought back egg morphing. It's more believable and much scarier, plus it's something that fans of the first film have wanted for a long time.
Egg morphing > Queen, hive, regurgitation
The topics are now merged.
but there is no queen so it makes sense for a drone to become one, and maby the vomiting thing is the egg morph.
Quote from: superunknown on Nov 21, 2007, 12:17:15 AM
They should have brought back egg morphing. It's more believable and much scarier, plus it's something that fans of the first film have wanted for a long time.
Egg morphing > Queen, hive, regurgitation
Wrong. Epic fail.
You fail for using epic fail. And making your entire 'argument' three words.
Quote from: bobcunk on Nov 21, 2007, 10:32:23 AM
but there is no queen so it makes sense for a drone to become one, and maby the vomiting thing is the egg morph.
Egg morphing is in the
absence of a Queen, not the early stages of becoming one.
Now that Colin's said that there are "many" facehuggers from the ship, this is making even less sense...
One of the reasons given for this thing was that the Predalien supposedly needs an army before laying eggs (which it doesn't, but still) - yet now it already has plenty of other Aliens being made, regardless?
It seems that the film is now contradicting itself, let alone others in the series. :-\
QuoteNow that Colin's said that there are "many" facehuggers from the ship, this is making even less sense...
PredAlien shoots them out it's arse.
Like I been saying all along.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 22, 2007, 12:19:08 AM
Now that Colin's said that there are "many" facehuggers from the ship, this is making even less sense...
One of the reasons given for this thing was that the Predalien supposedly needs an army before laying eggs (which it doesn't, but still) - yet now it already has plenty of other Aliens being made, regardless?
It seems that the film is now contradicting itself, let alone others in the series. :-\
Well apparently there are more facehuggers on the ship, but maybe they are killed upon impact, so technically speaking there will be more facehuggers seen in the film, even if they are dead. lol.
That would be lame however and it makes it a little convenient that two happen to survive in order to infect the hunter and his son with embryos.
So unless colin is lying about the facehuggers to throw us offtrack, then it does indeed contradict earlier statements about the predalien needing to build an army by using the vomiting reproductive method. Unless it creates a unique and non-canon type of alien with that and the rest of the aliens are born from the normal facehuggers. Praeotorians anyone? >:(
I think someone said the psp game features aliens with a spiky tail and a sort of queen crest that aren't predaliens. Please tell me this is not the case.
QuoteOne of the reasons given for this thing was that the Predalien supposedly needs an army before laying eggs (which it doesn't, but still) - yet now it already has plenty of other Aliens being made, regardless?
The queen in aliens had 157 aliens, there were not even more hosts available, still, she continued to lay eggs.
Maybe its the predalien plan to take over earth as fast as possible.
QuoteEgg morphing is in the absence of a Queen, not the early stages of becoming one.
Why?
Because the original Alien wasn't becoming a Queen, and what Chet is doing is totally different.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 22, 2007, 12:34:00 AM
Because the original Alien wasn't becoming a Queen, and what Chet is doing is totally different.
Yeah, but we have never seen a
predalien before.
QuoteBecause the original Alien wasn't becoming a Queen
We dont know that.
Quote from: Noir-Gojira on Nov 22, 2007, 12:33:00 AM
QuoteEgg morphing is in the absence of a Queen, not the early stages of becoming one.
Why?
Because an alien that is becoming one, (if that were even possible) would know it was molting and would instinctively just hide away and then lay eggs upon completion of that molting. Only when there is no queen present at all, would a lone warrior alien isolated from a hive, egg morph one host to make a queen bearing egg.
By that logic the thing can also fly, fart lightning and spit flames from its mouths.
WOO!~ Now that's what I'm talking about! ^_^
And the Bros, apparently.
Cos it's hardcore.
QuoteCos it's hardcore.
Its really getting old.
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Nov 22, 2007, 12:34:50 AM
Quote from: SiL on Nov 22, 2007, 12:34:00 AM
Because the original Alien wasn't becoming a Queen, and what Chet is doing is totally different.
Yeah, but we have never seen a predalien before.
QuoteBecause the original Alien wasn't becoming a Queen
We dont know that.
Actually the comics have had predaliens, although they aren't considered canon. So have the video games, so we have seen predaliens before. Its not as if its a new concept made solely for its introduction to the fans in this film.
The alien in "Alien" was not becoming a queen, because the events of alien just like avp-r are a matter of days and no changes in its physical structure took place. No queen crest, no big-ass tail. It egg-morphed, and there was no talk of vomiting or any reproductive cycles other than egg-morphing by the filmakers and writers.
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Nov 22, 2007, 12:34:50 AM
We dont know that.
Chet shows definite signs of Queenage before the new cycle. Original Alien didn't.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 22, 2007, 12:40:15 AM
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Nov 22, 2007, 12:34:50 AM
We dont know that.
Chet shows definite signs of Queenage before the new cycle. Original Alien didn't.
Indeed. Its as if some people here (johnny handsome..etc.) think that the big spiky tail is just something all predaliens would have as if its not a queen trait, same goes for the crest-like end of its head. A normal predalien would most likely look like the warrior aliens, with the ridged head, albeit it would still have the mandibles (and dreadlocks.. ???) and would be overall a little bigger.
QuoteActually the comics have had predaliens, although they aren't considered canon. So have the video games, so we have seen predaliens before. Its not as if its a new concept made solely for its introduction to the fans in this film.
Like you said, comics arent canon, so why even mention them.
QuoteThe alien in "Alien" was not becoming a queen, because the events of alien just like avp-r are a matter of days and no changes in its physical structure took place. No queen crest, no big-ass tail.
It was a normal drone, maybe it took longer to mold into one, the predalien obviously dont need more then a couple of days, and the events in alien took place in about 24 hours, like said in
aliens.
QuoteChet shows definite signs of Queenage before the new cycle. Original Alien didn't.
Original alien wasnt a predalien ;)
Its stronger, more dangerous, bigger, why not able to mold sooner then.
QuoteCos it's hardcore.
And "awesomeness"!
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Nov 22, 2007, 12:43:57 AM
QuoteActually the comics have had predaliens, although they aren't considered canon. So have the video games, so we have seen predaliens before. Its not as if its a new concept made solely for its introduction to the fans in this film.
Like you said, comics arent canon, so why even mention them.
QuoteThe alien in "Alien" was not becoming a queen, because the events of alien just like avp-r are a matter of days and no changes in its physical structure took place. No queen crest, no big-ass tail.
It was a normal drone, maybe it took longer to mold into one, the predalien obviously dont need more then a couple of days, and the events in alien took place in about 24 hours, like said in aliens.
QuoteChet shows definite signs of Queenage before the new cycle. Original Alien didn't.
Original alien wasnt a predalien ;)
Its stronger, more dangerous, bigger, why not able to mold sooner then.
when in "Aliens" does anyone say the events of the first film took place in 24 hours? If your referring to the discussion in the board room aboard gateway station, they are talking about previous breifings with ripley that took place 24 hours prior to that discussion where her flight status is revoked and she urges the company guy, to check out lv-426.
Why would physical stature determine the speed in which an alien molts. All instincts, behaviors they have should not change just because it might have burst out of a different host.
And if the alien in the first film was molting, it should have had the queen head or at least some transitional form of it and it did not. Why would it have to be a predalien to show such signs, that is just ridiculous.
And before someone mentions that the alien in alien 3 was quadripedal and maybe couldn't molt because of that, let me stop you right there. How adaptable is that, when a bipedal host is required for an alien to molt into a queen(assuming that were canonical and possilble for the sake of argument)?
So if the aliens are on a planet where all potential hosts are quadripedal, I guess their just out of luck and can't molt then, even though it is supposedly argued to be possible and a way of gettinga queen in some people's views.
You must remember that human born aliens are not the norm, Just because they are the most commonly used/seen ones. The dna reflex thing doesn't produce true hybrids, only aliens with varying physical characteristics that help them adapt to their environment and survive.
QuoteIf your referring to the discussion in the board room aboard gateway station, they are talking about previous breifings with ripley that took place 24 hours prior to that discussion where her flight status is revoked and she urges the company guy, to check out lv-426.
Ripley says the Alien wiped out the crew in less than 24 hours.
Ripley says, and I quote, "Because just one of these things was able to wipe out my entire crew in less than 24 hours!"
Quote
when in "Aliens" does anyone say the events of the first film took place in 24 hours?
Shes talking to the marines that the alien killed her crew in
less then 24 hours.
Quotehave should not change just because it might have burst out of a different host.
Thats the keyword from you,
should not, but fact is that nature is crazy, and we just dont know.
QuoteWhy would it have to be a predalien to show such signs
Because of predator DNA.
We have just seen human born aliens so far, we dont know mwhat characteristics the aliens take from other hosts.
Human born ones dont take hair, but an alien does from an predator, just for example.
Quote from: SM on Nov 22, 2007, 12:58:01 AM
QuoteIf your referring to the discussion in the board room aboard gateway station, they are talking about previous breifings with ripley that took place 24 hours prior to that discussion where her flight status is revoked and she urges the company guy, to check out lv-426.
Ripley says the Alien wiped out the crew in less than 24 hours.
But is it her estimate or actual time? She wasn't exactly in the best mental state and understandably so, following such an ordeal.
The events of the film include landing on the planet etc., so even if it were true that the alien killed them in less than 24 hours, the film itself might still take place in about 2 days or so.
It does take place over a couple of days, but she specifically said the Alien killed everyone in less than 24 hours. Prolly from when Kane popped.
And when you get down and really try to apply time frames it's a LOT less than 24 hours.
QuoteBut is it her estimate or actual time? She wasn't exactly in the best mental state and understandably so, following such an ordeal.
Funny, the last time i said that ripley was not in the best mental state i was called biased, because she said that the alien was 8 feet tall.
Its really funny how fans call other fans biased when saying facts and then you see the same line wrote from someone else to proove something. :D
That is true, but in terms of from the birth of the Alien to the destruction of the Nostromo, that is under 24 hours.
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Nov 22, 2007, 12:59:13 AM
Quote
when in "Aliens" does anyone say the events of the first film took place in 24 hours?
Shes talking to the marines that the alien killed her crew in less then 24 hours.
Quotehave should not change just because it might have burst out of a different host.
Thats the keyword from you, should not, but fact is that nature is crazy, and we just dont know.
QuoteWhy would it have to be a predalien to show such signs
Because of predator DNA.
We have just seen human born aliens so far, we dont know mwhat characteristics the aliens take from other hosts.
Human born ones dont take hair, but an alien does from an predator, just for example.
oh really, we've only seen human born aliens? I guess that dog alien in the third film is non-canon then? ::)
That alien didn't play fetch with the prisoners just because it came from a dog. lol.
The dreadlocks aren't actual hair by the way, although they might be the predators equivalent of it. In one of the comics a predator's dreads get sliced and they bleed.
Quoteoh really, we've only seen human born aliens. I guess that dog alien in the third film is non-canon then?
It had no tubes for example and had different lips.
And dug on throwing up on people.
Quote from: SM on Nov 22, 2007, 01:03:29 AM
It does take place over a couple of days, but she specifically said the Alien killed everyone in less than 24 hours. Prolly from when Kane popped.
And when you get down and really try to apply time frames it's a LOT less than 24 hours.
well the argument still stands, since the predallien in avp-r is no more than a day old, when it starts killing and seeking hosts to do the vomiting bullshit. Implying it has begun the molting process that early on. So if the allien in the first film was molting, it would have shown signs of it, even in a timeframe less than 24 hours, even if minor compared to what we've seen of the predalien in avp-r, with its headcrest, tail etc..
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Nov 22, 2007, 01:04:21 AM
QuoteBut is it her estimate or actual time? She wasn't exactly in the best mental state and understandably so, following such an ordeal.
Funny, the last time i said that ripley was not in the best mental state i was called biased, because she said that the alien was 8 feet tall.
Its really funny how fans call other fans biased when saying facts and then you see the same line wrote from someone else to proove something. :D
The aliens are supposed to be over 7 feet tall. I think alien 3 has her saying that it was eight feet tall as well. (when she is talking to supt. andrews)
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Nov 22, 2007, 01:06:10 AM
Quoteoh really, we've only seen human born aliens. I guess that dog alien in the third film is non-canon then?
It had no tubes for example and had different lips.
yeah so, it was still a non-human born alien. Clearly it takes on some traits of the host, that's what the dna reflex is, however its base instincts to survive and reproduce would not be affected by what host it comes out of.
Quotewell the argument still stands, since the predallien in avp-r is no more than a day old, when it starts killing and seeking hosts to do the vomiting bullshit. Implying it has begun the molting process that early on. So if the allien in the first film was molting, it would have shown signs of it, even in a timeframe less than 24 hours, even if minor compared to what we've seen of the predalien in avp-r, with its headcrest, tail etc..
Exercise in futility. ;D
Quote from: SM on Nov 22, 2007, 01:13:05 AM
Quotewell the argument still stands, since the predallien in avp-r is no more than a day old, when it starts killing and seeking hosts to do the vomiting bullshit. Implying it has begun the molting process that early on. So if the allien in the first film was molting, it would have shown signs of it, even in a timeframe less than 24 hours, even if minor compared to what we've seen of the predalien in avp-r, with its headcrest, tail etc..
Exercise in futility. ;D
what? My argument, or my responding to that other person? lol.
The latter mostly.
But also trying to somehow work this barfing rubbish into the existing films.
The predalien DOES NOT VOMIT!!!!
I said this 100x, the directors aren't stupid to make it vomit.
Quote from: SM on Nov 22, 2007, 01:18:08 AM
The latter mostly.
But also trying to somehow work this barfing rubbish into the existing films.
I'm not trying to argue that the barfing took place in the other films, but rather using them as examples to why it doesn't make sense to say a "pre-queen" could do the vomiting, or that an alien could even molt into a queen at all.
Yeah but it's obvious it doesn't make sense.
QuoteI said this 100x, the directors aren't stupid to make it vomit.
You'll have to say it more than that to make it a fact.
Quote from: SM on Nov 22, 2007, 01:29:02 AM
Yeah but it's obvious it doesn't make sense.
QuoteI said this 100x, the directors aren't stupid to make it vomit.
You'll have to say it more than that to make it a fact.
Tell that to the people in this thread who still defend it. Sure I think its obvious that trying to retroactively insert the new bullshit reproductive method into the other films, and then saying "hey, nothing in them contradicts it", is dumb, but others insist otherwise and need to be enlightened.
Do you honestly think someone so blinkered as Johnny Handsome is going to change his mind though?
Which is where the aforementioned futility comes into it.
Quote from: SM on Nov 22, 2007, 01:36:39 AM
Do you honestly think someone so blinkered as Johnny Handsome is going to change his mind though?
Which is where the aforementioned futility comes into it.
:D
Quote from: SM on Nov 22, 2007, 01:36:39 AM
Do you honestly think someone so blinkered as Johnny Handsome is going to change his mind though?
Which is where the aforementioned futility comes into it.
that's true, but this thread is about discussing the new reproduction method and even after 190 something pages, things still need to be said regardless of whether it sinks into people's thick, dense skulls or not. Otherwise everyone should have stopped posting here awhile ago. lol.
If it ain't sinking in after 190+ pages, t'ain't never gunna sink in.
Blinkered?
New word of the day.
What do you think the predaliens going to do?
Quote from: Plokoon111 on Nov 22, 2007, 01:51:02 AM
What do you think the predaliens going to do?
This is a joke question...right!?
Quote from: Plokoon111 on Nov 22, 2007, 01:18:27 AM
I said this 100x, the directors aren't stupid to make it vomit.
Been confirmed it does.
What did they say, "Oh yes the predalien will spit out green slime out of its mouth. ."
Quote from: Plokoon111 on Nov 22, 2007, 02:01:40 AM
What did they say, "Oh yes the predalien will spit out green slime out of its mouth. ."
I'm sure it won't be green, but more translucent like the alien's drool.
But you havn't seen the movie, so lets just say were all wrong.
Quote from: Plokoon111 on Nov 22, 2007, 02:01:40 AM
What did they say, "Oh yes the predalien will spit out green slime out of its mouth."
Well, you could zoom back to the very start of this particular subject and see Colin's many quoted responses.
It'll take quite some time, though.
Damn this thread is legendary. Quick fill it will filler posts just to get it to be 200 pages. lol.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 22, 2007, 02:15:06 AM
Damn this thread is legendary. Quick fill it will filler posts just to get it to be 200 pages. lol.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHa!
whoa this has alot of pages ;D ;)
But its a new thing and to keep things interesting is you have to add new things, like look at the movie aliens the reason when you first watch it is how interesting and how the life cycle unfolds in certain situations, thats whats gnna happen in AVP-r.
I should breathe new ideas into the franchise, granted I hope they never use it in one of the Alien Movies, but it's cool, maybe something to be explored further in the later AVP movies, if they make them.
Quote from: Xenonewborn on Nov 22, 2007, 02:38:37 AM
I should breathe new ideas into the franchise, granted I hope they never use it in one of the Alien Movies, but it's cool, maybe something to be explored further in the later AVP movies, if they make them.
See this confuses me...you admit that it shouldn't be in an Alien movie (because obviously you see something wrong with it), why is it then good for this film? Are not aliens in this film?
Quote from: Gates on Nov 22, 2007, 02:46:07 AM
Quote from: Xenonewborn on Nov 22, 2007, 02:38:37 AM
I should breathe new ideas into the franchise, granted I hope they never use it in one of the Alien Movies, but it's cool, maybe something to be explored further in the later AVP movies, if they make them.
See this confuses me...you admit that it shouldn't be in an Alien movie (because obviously you see something wrong with it), why is it then good for this film? Are not aliens in this film?
I think he is saying its good, to keep things interesting.....but its bad continuity wise.
Quote from: PredatorBruth on Nov 22, 2007, 02:53:41 AM
Quote from: Gates on Nov 22, 2007, 02:46:07 AM
Quote from: Xenonewborn on Nov 22, 2007, 02:38:37 AM
I should breathe new ideas into the franchise, granted I hope they never use it in one of the Alien Movies, but it's cool, maybe something to be explored further in the later AVP movies, if they make them.
See this confuses me...you admit that it shouldn't be in an Alien movie (because obviously you see something wrong with it), why is it then good for this film? Are not aliens in this film?
I think he is saying its good, to keep things interesting.....but its bad continuity wise.
^ exactly, plus with predators and aliens in the mix it makes some sense, but if it was just aliens I prolly would hate the idea.
Quote from: Xenonewborn on Nov 22, 2007, 02:55:29 AM
Quote from: PredatorBruth on Nov 22, 2007, 02:53:41 AM
I think he is saying its good, to keep things interesting.....but its bad continuity wise.
^ exactly, plus with predators and aliens in the mix it makes some sense, but if it was just aliens I prolly would hate the idea.
That's bullsh!t and you know it...if it's bad continuity-wise then it's bad for this movie...the brothers have been quoted saying that their movie would be within the alien universe/time-line...so if you honestly feel that it shouldn't be in an alien film, then it shouldn't be in this film...
Quote from: Gates on Nov 22, 2007, 03:01:15 AM
Quote from: Xenonewborn on Nov 22, 2007, 02:55:29 AM
Quote from: PredatorBruth on Nov 22, 2007, 02:53:41 AM
I think he is saying its good, to keep things interesting.....but its bad continuity wise.
^ exactly, plus with predators and aliens in the mix it makes some sense, but if it was just aliens I prolly would hate the idea.
That's bullsh!t and you know it...if it's bad continuity-wise then it's bad for this movie...the brothers have been quoted saying that their movie would be within the alien universe/time-line...so if you honestly feel that it shouldn't be in an alien film, then it shouldn't be in this film...
yeah but its a crossover, crossovers are never as serious as the single movie franchise.....look at freddy vs jason.
I'd care a whole lot less though if they made a vs movie that was outside of the main timeline and standing series continuity.
Quote from: Gates on Nov 22, 2007, 03:01:15 AM
That's bullsh!t and you know it...if it's bad continuity-wise then it's bad for this movie...the brothers have been quoted saying that their movie would be within the alien universe/time-line...so if you honestly feel that it shouldn't be in an alien film, then it shouldn't be in this film...
I don't know...a PredAlien shouldn't be explored in the Alien films, but I think it's an okay idea for the AVP franchise. Certain things work for this alternate concept that would flounder within and (further) ruin the Alien franchise.
Quote from: Gates on Nov 22, 2007, 03:01:15 AM
Quote from: Xenonewborn on Nov 22, 2007, 02:55:29 AM
Quote from: PredatorBruth on Nov 22, 2007, 02:53:41 AM
I think he is saying its good, to keep things interesting.....but its bad continuity wise.
^ exactly, plus with predators and aliens in the mix it makes some sense, but if it was just aliens I prolly would hate the idea.
That's bullsh!t and you know it...if it's bad continuity-wise then it's bad for this movie...the brothers have been quoted saying that their movie would be within the alien universe/time-line...so if you honestly feel that it shouldn't be in an alien film, then it shouldn't be in this film...
Listen fanboy, if you want to do everything u can to pick away at every little bleeding flaw in this movie then go ahead, hate the movie, go see it and wish u hadn't bought the ticket, go ahead, I don't give a shit, on the other hand, u could just accept the fact that the piece of shit is going to barf in a hole bunch of peoples mouths, A.K.A mouth rape them, and thats it, so get used to it, I don't care if u think it's bad continuity, it's in the movie, and it's official, certain things work in crossovers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I definitely would love to see this in Alien 5, or Avp3, in a mix of coarse. Because it's very Alien 1 like.
Quote from: Xenonewborn on Nov 22, 2007, 03:11:09 AM
Quote from: Gates on Nov 22, 2007, 03:01:15 AM
Quote from: Xenonewborn on Nov 22, 2007, 02:55:29 AM
Quote from: PredatorBruth on Nov 22, 2007, 02:53:41 AM
I think he is saying its good, to keep things interesting.....but its bad continuity wise.
^ exactly, plus with predators and aliens in the mix it makes some sense, but if it was just aliens I prolly would hate the idea.
That's bullsh!t and you know it...if it's bad continuity-wise then it's bad for this movie...the brothers have been quoted saying that their movie would be within the alien universe/time-line...so if you honestly feel that it shouldn't be in an alien film, then it shouldn't be in this film...
Listen fanboy, if you want to do everything u can to pick away at every little bleeding flaw in this movie then go ahead, hate the movie, go see it and wish u hadn't bought the ticket, go ahead, I don't give a shit, on the other hand, u could just accept the fact that the piece of shit is going to barf in a hole bunch of peoples mouths, A.K.A mouth rape them, and thats it, so get used to it, I don't care if u think it's bad continuity, it's in the movie, and it's official, certain things work in crossovers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Word man...yo 8)
Quote from: Xenonewborn on Nov 22, 2007, 03:11:09 AMListen fanboy, if you want to do everything u can to pick away at every little bleeding flaw in this movie then go ahead, hate the movie, go see it and wish u hadn't bought the ticket, go ahead, I don't give a shit, on the other hand, u could just accept the fact that the piece of shit is going to barf in a hole bunch of peoples mouths, A.K.A mouth rape them, and thats it, so get used to it, I don't care if u think it's bad continuity, it's in the movie, and it's official, certain things work in crossovers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ah...how cordial people can become when they can't make a coherent point. How is something official if you're using the crossover aspect to say that it can be done? You mean that it would be non-canon, which makes the claim that it's official moot in regards to regurgitation and the impact on the Alien series.
Amen!
Quote from: PredatorBruth on Nov 22, 2007, 03:16:15 AM
Quote from: Xenonewborn on Nov 22, 2007, 03:11:09 AM
Quote from: Gates on Nov 22, 2007, 03:01:15 AM
Quote from: Xenonewborn on Nov 22, 2007, 02:55:29 AM
Quote from: PredatorBruth on Nov 22, 2007, 02:53:41 AM
I think he is saying its good, to keep things interesting.....but its bad continuity wise.
^ exactly, plus with predators and aliens in the mix it makes some sense, but if it was just aliens I prolly would hate the idea.
That's bullsh!t and you know it...if it's bad continuity-wise then it's bad for this movie...the brothers have been quoted saying that their movie would be within the alien universe/time-line...so if you honestly feel that it shouldn't be in an alien film, then it shouldn't be in this film...
Listen fanboy, if you want to do everything u can to pick away at every little bleeding flaw in this movie then go ahead, hate the movie, go see it and wish u hadn't bought the ticket, go ahead, I don't give a shit, on the other hand, u could just accept the fact that the piece of shit is going to barf in a hole bunch of peoples mouths, A.K.A mouth rape them, and thats it, so get used to it, I don't care if u think it's bad continuity, it's in the movie, and it's official, certain things work in crossovers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Word man...yo 8)
I swear, can't stand it when this shit happens, people will do whatever they can to turn a great movie/idea, into a piece of bleeding shit.
To all the people who nit pick really tiny things . . .V
YOU GO DIRECT, or WRITE A SCRIPT!
edit: Happy 200th page!
Happy 200th
QuoteTo all the people who nit pick really tiny things . . .V
YOU GO DIRECT, or WRITE A SCRIPT!
To all the people who criticise Al Qaeda.
YOU GO FLY PLANES INTO A BUILDING!
::)
Quote from: Xenonewborn on Nov 22, 2007, 03:18:13 AM
Quote from: PredatorBruth on Nov 22, 2007, 03:16:15 AM
Quote from: Xenonewborn on Nov 22, 2007, 03:11:09 AM
Quote from: Gates on Nov 22, 2007, 03:01:15 AM
Quote from: Xenonewborn on Nov 22, 2007, 02:55:29 AM
Quote from: PredatorBruth on Nov 22, 2007, 02:53:41 AM
I think he is saying its good, to keep things interesting.....but its bad continuity wise.
^ exactly, plus with predators and aliens in the mix it makes some sense, but if it was just aliens I prolly would hate the idea.
That's bullsh!t and you know it...if it's bad continuity-wise then it's bad for this movie...the brothers have been quoted saying that their movie would be within the alien universe/time-line...so if you honestly feel that it shouldn't be in an alien film, then it shouldn't be in this film...
Listen fanboy, if you want to do everything u can to pick away at every little bleeding flaw in this movie then go ahead, hate the movie, go see it and wish u hadn't bought the ticket, go ahead, I don't give a shit, on the other hand, u could just accept the fact that the piece of shit is going to barf in a hole bunch of peoples mouths, A.K.A mouth rape them, and thats it, so get used to it, I don't care if u think it's bad continuity, it's in the movie, and it's official, certain things work in crossovers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Word man...yo 8)
I swear, can't stand it when this shit happens, people will do whatever they can to turn a great movie/idea, into a piece of bleeding shit.
yeah when will people be happy with what there gettin.
If somebody gave you a steaming pile of poo.........would you accept it?
Just because somebody gives you something doesn't mean you have to like it.
Quote from: Plokoon111 on Nov 22, 2007, 03:21:18 AMTo all the peopel who nit pick really tiny things . . .V
YOU GO DIRECT, or WRITE A SCRIPT!
I'm not going to be as harsh as some would be on you. Here's just a nice little tidbit to think about while you're deadset in your defense: while we are paid nothing to notice the discrepancies, the studio gets more people to pay money to see this film when Fangoria and other magazines publish claims from the production that this film will adhere to canon. The writers who were paid to do a good job are the ones that are supposed to do just that, not the fanbase, and yet the way you would have it is that they are immune from logical fallacies because they know how to network with people in power. The directors get cash to iron out what nitpickers notice. In fact, this is a production that's priding itself on a supposedly correct way to go about making an AVP film.
You want to complain about the complaining? Fine. But think about the people who rushed for a deadline while you're lambasting fans for noticing what should have been ironed out months beforehand by the people being paid millions for this.
Quote from: SM on Nov 22, 2007, 03:24:18 AM
QuoteTo all the people who nit pick really tiny things . . .V
YOU GO DIRECT, or WRITE A SCRIPT!
To all the people who criticise Al Qaeda.
YOU GO FLY PLANES INTO A BUILDING!
::)
Uhh What???????
Quote from: PredatorBruth on Nov 22, 2007, 03:24:45 AM
Quote from: Xenonewborn on Nov 22, 2007, 03:18:13 AM
Quote from: PredatorBruth on Nov 22, 2007, 03:16:15 AM
Quote from: Xenonewborn on Nov 22, 2007, 03:11:09 AM
Quote from: Gates on Nov 22, 2007, 03:01:15 AM
Quote from: Xenonewborn on Nov 22, 2007, 02:55:29 AM
Quote from: PredatorBruth on Nov 22, 2007, 02:53:41 AM
I think he is saying its good, to keep things interesting.....but its bad continuity wise.
^ exactly, plus with predators and aliens in the mix it makes some sense, but if it was just aliens I prolly would hate the idea.
That's bullsh!t and you know it...if it's bad continuity-wise then it's bad for this movie...the brothers have been quoted saying that their movie would be within the alien universe/time-line...so if you honestly feel that it shouldn't be in an alien film, then it shouldn't be in this film...
Listen fanboy, if you want to do everything u can to pick away at every little bleeding flaw in this movie then go ahead, hate the movie, go see it and wish u hadn't bought the ticket, go ahead, I don't give a shit, on the other hand, u could just accept the fact that the piece of shit is going to barf in a hole bunch of peoples mouths, A.K.A mouth rape them, and thats it, so get used to it, I don't care if u think it's bad continuity, it's in the movie, and it's official, certain things work in crossovers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Word man...yo 8)
I swear, can't stand it when this shit happens, people will do whatever they can to turn a great movie/idea, into a piece of bleeding shit.
yeah when will people be happy with what there gettin.
yeah dude, people just have to realize that, hey, this is what were gonna get in this movie, it might change later, maybe stay the same, I might as well get used to the fact that David Giler doesn't check AVP Galaxy to see what the 2000 fans of this series want, it's a biz, the producers have to make the desision that they think will creep the common viewer out, because pissing us off, only means that they lose about 10,000 bucks in total gross.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Nov 22, 2007, 03:27:14 AM
If somebody gave you a steaming pile of poo.........would you accept it?
Just because somebody gives you something doesn't mean you have to like it.
I didn't say that u had to like it, I just gave u some helpful advice that might actually help u enjoy the movie.
now I've got a question for u: if somebody gave u a knew idea that u haven't even seen onscreen, would u just decide right away that it was a worthless pile of shit.
No we would get more info about it from the filmmakers and THEN make the call it's a steaming pile of shit.
well what if it wasn't, what if it turns out to be awesome and they start using it in every movie that has aliens in it from this point forward?
disclamer: I don't want them to use it in the alien movies unless it's awesome.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Nov 22, 2007, 03:27:14 AM
If somebody gave you a steaming pile of poo.........would you accept it?
Just because somebody gives you something doesn't mean you have to like it.
come on man, let bigons be bigons....the only reason use are sayin this stuff is bad is cause you go scurry back and see if its like the originals....well wooptie doodledooo big deal if its not like the original, if you want somethin like the original just go clean the dust off of them and watch them....cause to keep things interesting ya have to introduce new things cause if ya dont it becomes repetitive
QuoteUhh What?
No offense, but it's beginning to make sense why you don't understand.
Quotenow I've got a question for u: if somebody gave u a knew idea that u haven't even seen onscreen, would u just decide right away that it was a worthless pile of shit.
Nope. I'd wait for months of spoilers, footage, reports, possible script leaks, and admissions from the production...you know, like we've gotten this entire time...before I started forming an opinion on whether a film will suck.
You know, that joke about how fans will soon start saying the theatrical release wasn't right because I wasn't seeing it through the right color filter is becoming less of a joke.
This movie rocks!
How random. ???
Quotedisclamer: I don't want them to use it in the alien movies unless it's awesome.
AvP:R core demographic.
"Uh-huh-huh-huh... I like stuff that doesn't suck..."
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Nov 22, 2007, 03:07:15 AM
I don't know...a PredAlien shouldn't be explored in the Alien films, but I think it's an okay idea for the AVP franchise. Certain things work for this alternate concept that would flounder within and (further) ruin the Alien franchise.
Well yes, a predalien wouldn't work in an Alien film because there are no predators in an alien film... :)
Quote from: Xenonewborn on Nov 22, 2007, 03:11:09 AM
[...] u could just accept the fact that the piece of shit is going to barf in a hole bunch of peoples mouths, A.K.A mouth rape them, and thats it, so get used to it, I don't care if u think it's bad continuity, it's in the movie, and it's official, certain things work in crossovers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A pity it is...and what's worst is that you accept it... :-X
Quote from: Plokoon111 on Nov 22, 2007, 03:14:39 AM
I definitely would love to see this in Alien 5, [...]
Retardation - Version 1.0
Quote from: Xenonewborn on Nov 22, 2007, 03:18:13 AM
I swear, can't stand it when this shit happens, people will do whatever they can to turn a great movie/idea, into a piece of bleeding shit.
No...I'm not the bogeyman, I'm not the big bad wolf...I'm not turning this into a piece of sh!t, the directors did that for me... :-X
Quote from: Plokoon111 on Nov 22, 2007, 03:21:18 AM
To all the people who nit pick really tiny things . . .V
YOU GO DIRECT, or WRITE A SCRIPT!
edit: Happy 200th page!
Retardation - Version 2.0
Quote from: PredatorBruth on Nov 22, 2007, 03:24:45 AM
yeah when will people be happy with what there gettin.
Not everyone in the world is a sheep such as yourself...accept that... :-X
why are people that like AVP sheep? This is what it is, its not Alien 5 (for the 1 thousandth time)
QuoteNot everyone in the world is a sheep such as yourself...accept that...
Fortunately for Fox und ze Strauses there are enough though.
Quote from: highlandpred on Nov 22, 2007, 03:40:31 AM
why are people that like AVP sheep? This is what it is, its not Alien 5 (for the 1 thousandth time)
I disliked AVP because it sucked as a film, not because of some bias every other fan seems to see going either way for one of the creatures.
Quote from: Gates on Nov 22, 2007, 03:37:53 AM
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Nov 22, 2007, 03:07:15 AM
I don't know...a PredAlien shouldn't be explored in the Alien films, but I think it's an okay idea for the AVP franchise. Certain things work for this alternate concept that would flounder within and (further) ruin the Alien franchise.
Well yes, a predalien wouldn't work in an Alien film because there are no predators in an alien film... :)
Quote from: Xenonewborn on Nov 22, 2007, 03:11:09 AM
[...] u could just accept the fact that the piece of shit is going to barf in a hole bunch of peoples mouths, A.K.A mouth rape them, and thats it, so get used to it, I don't care if u think it's bad continuity, it's in the movie, and it's official, certain things work in crossovers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A pity it is...and what's worst is that you accept it... :-X
Quote from: Plokoon111 on Nov 22, 2007, 03:14:39 AM
I definitely would love to see this in Alien 5, [...]
Retardation - Version 1.0
Quote from: Xenonewborn on Nov 22, 2007, 03:18:13 AM
I swear, can't stand it when this shit happens, people will do whatever they can to turn a great movie/idea, into a piece of bleeding shit.
No...I'm not the bogeyman, I'm not the big bad wolf...I'm not turning this into a piece of sh!t, the directors did that for me... :-X
Quote from: Plokoon111 on Nov 22, 2007, 03:21:18 AM
To all the people who nit pick really tiny things . . .V
YOU GO DIRECT, or WRITE A SCRIPT!
edit: Happy 200th page!
Retardation - Version 2.0
Quote from: PredatorBruth on Nov 22, 2007, 03:24:45 AM
yeah when will people be happy with what there gettin.
Not everyone in the world is a sheep such as yourself...accept that... :-X
HAHAHAHAHA your callin me a sheep for being thankful for what im gettin, seems like most of the people here who arent happy with it are the sheep, cause most of use jump on the hate bandwagon.
and its pretty sad how some of use
probably lose sleep over this.
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Nov 22, 2007, 03:42:20 AM
Quote from: highlandpred on Nov 22, 2007, 03:40:31 AM
why are people that like AVP sheep? This is what it is, its not Alien 5 (for the 1 thousandth time)
I disliked AVP because it sucked as a film, not because of some bias every other fan seems to see going either way for one of the creatures.
Well thats my point, its not either of the 2, its a combination. I didnt like AVP either, but i can seperate it in my head from the classics that went before. When i watch Episode 1 it doesnt make Star wars any worse, its still a classic.
Times change, people dont like change...
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Nov 22, 2007, 03:33:50 AM
QuoteUhh What?
No offense, but it's beginning to make sense why you don't understand.
Oh, and why don't I understand, because I'm willing to accept new ideas? Please explain that to me.
Quote from: Gates on Nov 22, 2007, 03:37:53 AM
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Nov 22, 2007, 03:07:15 AM
Quote from: PredatorBruth on Nov 22, 2007, 03:24:45 AM
yeah when will people be happy with what there gettin.
Not everyone in the world is a sheep such as yourself...accept that... :-X
If u think that I'm a sheep, than ur sadly mistaken, I'm an 90 foot megaladon shark, waiting for u to swim to close to me so I can gobble up ur criticisms and bull shit arguments that u seem to create just so u can piss other people off. On the other hand I think I'll just sit here, writing a screenplay, while at the same time, repelling your arguments, and doing the directors who have worked so hard to please us fans, if u haven't noticed colins been on this site telling us about the movie since day 1, try and find 1 other director who gives fans that much respect.
QuoteHAHAHAHAHA your callin me a sheep for being thankful for what im gettin, seems like most of the people here who arent happy with it are the sheep, cause most of use jump on the hate bandwagon.
and its pretty sad how some of use probably lose sleep over this.
agreed
QuoteOh, and why don't I understand, because I'm willing to accept new ideas? Please explain that to me.
No because "You make your own film" is a f**king moronic argument. And that fact it had to be explained speaks volumes.
QuoteI disliked AVP because it sucked as a film, not because of some bias every other fan seems to see going either way for one of the creatures.
Me too. I never really noticed any particular bias to be honest. It was an awful film before we ever got to see an Alien and Predator fight and that didn't improve things.
good point, it's AVP not Alien 5, thats got a ring to it, maybe should have been used for the AVP movie, people wouldn't have been as confused.
Quote from: SM on Nov 22, 2007, 03:46:32 AM
QuoteOh, and why don't I understand, because I'm willing to accept new ideas? Please explain that to me.
No because "You make your own film" is a f**king moronic argument. And that fact it had to be explained speaks volumes.
QuoteI disliked AVP because it sucked as a film, not because of some bias every other fan seems to see going either way for one of the creatures.
Me too. I never really noticed any particular bias to be honest. It was an awful film before we ever got to see an Alien and Predator fight and that didn't improve things.
OK enlighten me....why was it such a horrible film?? thats because your trying to make these new crossover fun for the fans and audience movies live up to this impossible expectation of the originals.
I'm calling you out Gates.
Quote from: SM on Nov 22, 2007, 03:41:12 AM
Fortunately for Fox und ze Strauses there are enough though.
Sad really... :-\
Quote from: PredatorBruth on Nov 22, 2007, 03:42:51 AM
HAHAHAHAHA your callin me a sheep for being thankful for what im gettin, seems like most of the people here who arent happy with it are the sheep, cause most of use jump on the hate bandwagon.
Lame...
Quoteand its pretty sad how some of use probably lose sleep over this.
Sorry...if I knew what a 'use' was, I would respond to this...
Quote from: Xenonewborn on Nov 22, 2007, 03:45:01 AM
If u think that I'm a sheep, than ur sadly mistaken, I'm an 90 foot megaladon shark, waiting for u to swim to close to me so I can gobble up ur criticisms and bull shit arguments that u seem to create just so u can piss other people off. On the other hand I think I'll just sit here, writing a screenplay, while at the same time, repelling your arguments, and doing the directors who have worked so hard to please us fans, [...]
I think this goes beyond even what a normal human would consider lame... :-X
Quoteif u haven't noticed colins been on this site telling us about the movie since day 1, try and find 1 other director who gives fans that much respect.
And I respect him for that, hell I've had conversations with the man...which is more than can be said about you...that happens because a few of us here talk to the man like he's a regular guy, unlike some of you that insist on bending over for him at any chance you get... :-X
Quote from: Plokoon111 on Nov 22, 2007, 03:50:43 AM
I'm calling you out Gates.
You're hysterical... :D
Quote from: Gates on Nov 22, 2007, 03:52:29 AM
Quote from: SM on Nov 22, 2007, 03:41:12 AM
Fortunately for Fox und ze Strauses there are enough though.
Sad really... :-\
Quote from: PredatorBruth on Nov 22, 2007, 03:42:51 AM
HAHAHAHAHA your callin me a sheep for being thankful for what im gettin, seems like most of the people here who arent happy with it are the sheep, cause most of use jump on the hate bandwagon.
Lame...
Quoteand its pretty sad how some of use probably lose sleep over this.
Sorry...if I knew what a 'use' was, I would respond to this...
Quote from: Xenonewborn on Nov 22, 2007, 03:45:01 AM
If u think that I'm a sheep, than ur sadly mistaken, I'm an 90 foot megaladon shark, waiting for u to swim to close to me so I can gobble up ur criticisms and bull shit arguments that u seem to create just so u can piss other people off. On the other hand I think I'll just sit here, writing a screenplay, while at the same time, repelling your arguments, and doing the directors who have worked so hard to please us fans, [...]
I think this goes beyond even what a normal human would consider lame... :-X
Quoteif u haven't noticed colins been on this site telling us about the movie since day 1, try and find 1 other director who gives fans that much respect.
And I respect him for that, hell I've had conversations with the man...which is more than can be said about you...that happens because a few of us here talk to the man like he's a regular guy, unlike some of you that insist on bending over for him at any chance you get... :-X
Quote from: PredatorBruth on Nov 22, 2007, 03:50:15 AM
Quote from: SM on Nov 22, 2007, 03:46:32 AM
QuoteOh, and why don't I understand, because I'm willing to accept new ideas? Please explain that to me.
No because "You make your own film" is a f**king moronic argument. And that fact it had to be explained speaks volumes.
QuoteI disliked AVP because it sucked as a film, not because of some bias every other fan seems to see going either way for one of the creatures.
Me too. I never really noticed any particular bias to be honest. It was an awful film before we ever got to see an Alien and Predator fight and that didn't improve things.
OK enlighten me....why was it such a horrible film?? thats because your trying to make these new crossover fun for the fans and audience movies live up to this impossible expectation of the originals.
does it look like i'm bending over to him moron, no, I'm making a point that the movies in good hands.
Quote from: Gates on Nov 22, 2007, 03:52:29 AM
Quote from: SM on Nov 22, 2007, 03:41:12 AM
Fortunately for Fox und ze Strauses there are enough though.
Sad really... :-\
Quote from: PredatorBruth on Nov 22, 2007, 03:42:51 AM
HAHAHAHAHA your callin me a sheep for being thankful for what im gettin, seems like most of the people here who arent happy with it are the sheep, cause most of use jump on the hate bandwagon.
Lame...
Quoteand its pretty sad how some of use probably lose sleep over this.
Sorry...if I knew what a 'use' was, I would respond to this...
Quote from: Xenonewborn on Nov 22, 2007, 03:45:01 AM
If u think that I'm a sheep, than ur sadly mistaken, I'm an 90 foot megaladon shark, waiting for u to swim to close to me so I can gobble up ur criticisms and bull shit arguments that u seem to create just so u can piss other people off. On the other hand I think I'll just sit here, writing a screenplay, while at the same time, repelling your arguments, and doing the directors who have worked so hard to please us fans, [...]
I think this goes beyond even what a normal human would consider lame... :-X
Quoteif u haven't noticed colins been on this site telling us about the movie since day 1, try and find 1 other director who gives fans that much respect.
And I respect him for that, hell I've had conversations with the man...which is more than can be said about you...that happens because a few of us here talk to the man like he's a regular guy, unlike some of you that insist on bending over for him at any chance you get... :-X
Hahahaha whats wrong gates, got no new hater material. ahahahahaha
QuoteI think this goes beyond even what a normal human would consider lame...
I'm feeling quite awkward myself after reading that one. :-X
And seriously, folks...you're quoting yourselves. It'd be nice to see more than just people tapping the Quote button and racing to a response.
Quotegood point, it's AVP not Alien 5, thats got a ring to it, maybe should have been used for the AVP movie, people wouldn't have been as confused.
christ on a bike.
It doesn't matter if it's AvP or Alien 5 or Predator 3 - the filmmakers tell us it's all the same universe.
The conveniently discard the rules for that universe. THAT is what pisses people off.
QuoteOK enlighten me....why was it such a horrible film?? thats because your trying to make these new crossover fun for the fans and audience movies live up to this impossible expectation of the originals.
What? Nevermind the second sentence. Not sure anyone could fathom that...
As for why AvP was bad.
- Setting it on present day opened a can of worms with continuity.
- The characters were badly written.
- There wasn't an ounce of tension due to the fact the audience were way ahead of the characters.
- There were two actual fights between Aliens and Predators that took up about 7 minutes of screentime in total.
Quote from: Plokoon111 on Nov 22, 2007, 03:21:18 AM
To all the people who nit pick really tiny things . . .V
YOU GO DIRECT, or WRITE A SCRIPT!
Give us the money and legal rights and we might do that. :)
Quote from: SM on Nov 22, 2007, 03:24:18 AM
To all the people who criticise Al Qaeda.
YOU GO FLY PLANES INTO A BUILDING!
:D
Actually, I should correct myself: I have written scripts and directed films. Just not for a big company like Fox and such.
Could anyone see Dave Chapelle as a viable actor for an Alien/Predator movie or will that just be retarded?
Only way is up from here.
Quote from: pmor087 on Nov 22, 2007, 04:07:42 AM
Could anyone see Dave Chapelle as a viable actor for an Alien/Predator movie or will that just be retarded?
It could work, i guess.
Very retarded.
Remember what happened to Superman III...?
Oh wait, we're still reeling from the multiple Superman IV moments we've received, let alone Superman III. :(
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Nov 22, 2007, 04:13:47 AM
Remember what happened to Superman III...?
Oh wait, we're still reeling from the multiple Superman IV moments we've received, let alone Superman III. :(
eww, ur right!!!!!
Quote from: PredatorBruth on Nov 22, 2007, 03:33:22 AM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Nov 22, 2007, 03:27:14 AM
If somebody gave you a steaming pile of poo.........would you accept it?
Just because somebody gives you something doesn't mean you have to like it.
come on man, let bigons be bigons....the only reason use are sayin this stuff is bad is cause you go scurry back and see if its like the originals....well wooptie doodledooo big deal if its not like the original, if you want somethin like the original just go clean the dust off of them and watch them....cause to keep things interesting ya have to introduce new things cause if ya dont it becomes repetitive
It should be like the originals, since this movie was spawned from them. If a mother and father have damien, are they supposed to like him?
And lets take the originality concept into account. The comics got so original they ended up killing their popularity and closing out the line because writers couldn't think of ways to expand the universe and continually added something cool (which all sucked). Eventually nobody read them because it became a gimmick. Oh wonder what they are doing this series? Talking Aliens? How lame.
Its pretty clear that the current movies are following the same path. You don't change for the sake of change just because you can. Eventually those gimmicks stop working, especially when their half thought out and don't impact the story in any way whatsoever.
The Alien is still going to die, and her super mouth f**king ability is going to gain them what exactly? It becomes pointless.
well i was thinking they could cast him as an unwilling colonial marine similar to Hicks personality only everytime shit hits the fan, we get a an S-load of swearing or numerous one-liners such as "oh sh*t" or "thats wack"
Quote from: Kimarhi on Nov 22, 2007, 04:29:02 PM
Quote from: PredatorBruth on Nov 22, 2007, 03:33:22 AM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Nov 22, 2007, 03:27:14 AM
If somebody gave you a steaming pile of poo.........would you accept it?
Just because somebody gives you something doesn't mean you have to like it.
come on man, let bigons be bigons....the only reason use are sayin this stuff is bad is cause you go scurry back and see if its like the originals....well wooptie doodledooo big deal if its not like the original, if you want somethin like the original just go clean the dust off of them and watch them....cause to keep things interesting ya have to introduce new things cause if ya dont it becomes repetitive
It should be like the originals, since this movie was spawned from them. If a mother and father have damien, are they supposed to like him?
And lets take the originality concept into account. The comics got so original they ended up killing their popularity and closing out the line because writers couldn't think of ways to expand the universe and continually added something cool (which all sucked). Eventually nobody read them because it became a gimmick. Oh wonder what they are doing this series? Talking Aliens? How lame.
Its pretty clear that the current movies are following the same path. You don't change for the sake of change just because you can. Eventually those gimmicks stop working, especially when their half thought out and don't impact the story in any way whatsoever.
The Alien is still going to die, and her super mouth f**king ability is going to gain them what exactly? It becomes pointless.
If u haven't realized, nothing has changed over the past 28 years since the first one, maybe it's time for some change!!!!
Bwah...........there have been changes, they just make more sense than mouthf**k.
I'm well aware of O'bannon's original backstory, but since it wasn't explained in Alien, I have no trouble accepting the queen in Cameron's sequel. The dogalien was an extension of the original movies ideas.
I'm less impressed with Ripley 8 and her other human/alien hybrid the newborn, but there was change there as well.
Of course this isn't even talking about the changes outside of the alien that affected the story and the main character, the main character also going through a logical progression in the series.
How much change you notice is how attuned you are to things OTHER than the popcorn factor/money shots.
Quote from: Plokoon111 on Nov 22, 2007, 03:50:43 AM
I'm calling you out Gates.
I can only hope that you said that while doing a Randy Savage impression.
Hey I want to debate him maybe?
I don't think you do.
Quote from: Xenonewborn on Nov 22, 2007, 04:58:13 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Nov 22, 2007, 04:29:02 PM
Quote from: PredatorBruth on Nov 22, 2007, 03:33:22 AM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Nov 22, 2007, 03:27:14 AM
If somebody gave you a steaming pile of poo.........would you accept it?
Just because somebody gives you something doesn't mean you have to like it.
come on man, let bigons be bigons....the only reason use are sayin this stuff is bad is cause you go scurry back and see if its like the originals....well wooptie doodledooo big deal if its not like the original, if you want somethin like the original just go clean the dust off of them and watch them....cause to keep things interesting ya have to introduce new things cause if ya dont it becomes repetitive
It should be like the originals, since this movie was spawned from them. If a mother and father have damien, are they supposed to like him?
And lets take the originality concept into account. The comics got so original they ended up killing their popularity and closing out the line because writers couldn't think of ways to expand the universe and continually added something cool (which all sucked). Eventually nobody read them because it became a gimmick. Oh wonder what they are doing this series? Talking Aliens? How lame.
Its pretty clear that the current movies are following the same path. You don't change for the sake of change just because you can. Eventually those gimmicks stop working, especially when their half thought out and don't impact the story in any way whatsoever.
The Alien is still going to die, and her super mouth f**king ability is going to gain them what exactly? It becomes pointless.
If u haven't realized, nothing has changed over the past 28 years since the first one, maybe it's time for some change!!!!
We need slight additions not drastic changes.
I suppose what we need to ask ourselves is... Would this be the moment when the series jumps the shark?
Look at the definition of what that phrase means before answering:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark
It basically equates to doing something ridiculously spectacular for the sake of it, purely for the sake of attracting new interest in something decreasing in popularity.
I guess u could call it jumping the shark, I don't think it will be used in an Alien movie thoug, it's more meant for AVP.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 23, 2007, 12:16:31 AM
I suppose what we need to ask ourselves is... Would this be the moment when the series jumps the shark?
Look at the definition of what that phrase means before answering:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark
It basically equates to doing something ridiculously spectacular for the sake of it, purely for the sake of attracting new interest in something decreasing in popularity.
Lol the shark was jumped loooong ago. A:R was the one that sealed the deal.
Quote from: automirage04 on Nov 24, 2007, 04:53:15 AM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 23, 2007, 12:16:31 AM
I suppose what we need to ask ourselves is... Would this be the moment when the series jumps the shark?
Look at the definition of what that phrase means before answering:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark
It basically equates to doing something ridiculously spectacular for the sake of it, purely for the sake of attracting new interest in something decreasing in popularity.
Lol the shark was jumped loooong ago. A:R was the one that sealed the deal.
Not really, it still had all the major same shit.
The Newborn was an expansion on an idea set down in Alien, just like the dog-Alien was; the perversion of humanity by becoming the Alien, although this time made a little too physical.
While the PredAlien rapeathon does call back to the psycho-sexual themes, it's far too blunt and goes against what we know.
Newborn=expansion ;D ;D SiL thanks for that laugh...
Newborn was way way out of line....had a good explenation though...
Predalien might have one thought i do generaly agree that it is against what's set but not impossible by it
The Newborn is the kind of failure that requires the exit out of the film it received: death by rudimentary toilet bowl flush.
With that said, I can see why some people equate the combination of human with Alien to the original Alien design...I just hate that abomination far too much to say it's superior to the step above in the Ladder of Suckitude that is the Predalien in any shape or form.
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Nov 24, 2007, 05:28:39 AM
The Newborn is the kind of failure that requires the exit out of the film it received: death by rudimentary toilet bowl flush.
With that said, I can see why some people equate the combination of human with Alien to the original Alien design...I just hate that abomination far too much to say it's superior to the step above in the Ladder of Suckitude that is the Predalien in any shape or form.
yeah, its just too bad the predalien can't suffer a similar fate and get killed in the sewer, infested with flies and feces where it belongs. I mean the sewer is an actual setting in the film. lol.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 24, 2007, 05:32:21 AM
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Nov 24, 2007, 05:28:39 AM
The Newborn is the kind of failure that requires the exit out of the film it received: death by rudimentary toilet bowl flush.
With that said, I can see why some people equate the combination of human with Alien to the original Alien design...I just hate that abomination far too much to say it's superior to the step above in the Ladder of Suckitude that is the Predalien in any shape or form.
yeah, its just too bad the predalien can't suffer a similar fate and get killed in the sewer, infested with flies and feces where it belongs.
Well at least the Predalien tried to be an alien
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 24, 2007, 05:23:13 AM
Newborn was way way out of line....had a good explenation though...
Kinda contrived for my tastes. One thing we didnt need An alien film to do was become one of those typical cloning ethics scifi films that suck. if I want that I'll rent the 6th Day (Sorry Arnold)
And looking at how shoehorned and forced cloning into the franchise was written: via throwing "ripley kinda sorta" into the franchise... ugh ::)
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 24, 2007, 05:33:31 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 24, 2007, 05:32:21 AM
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Nov 24, 2007, 05:28:39 AM
The Newborn is the kind of failure that requires the exit out of the film it received: death by rudimentary toilet bowl flush.
With that said, I can see why some people equate the combination of human with Alien to the original Alien design...I just hate that abomination far too much to say it's superior to the step above in the Ladder of Suckitude that is the Predalien in any shape or form.
yeah, its just too bad the predalien can't suffer a similar fate and get killed in the sewer, infested with flies and feces where it belongs.
Well at least the Predalien tried to be an alien
Well I will admit, visually I like the predalien better than the newborn. But the predalien's floppy dreadlocks, horrible roar and its lame ass canon-breaking reproductive methods, place it on the train to ballsuckville, and with a one way ticket I might add.
Quote from: Anomaly on Nov 24, 2007, 05:35:08 AM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 24, 2007, 05:23:13 AM
Newborn was way way out of line....had a good explenation though...
Kinda contrived for my tastes. One thing we didnt need An alien film to do was become one of those typical cloning ethics scifi films that suck. if I want that I'll rent the 6th Day (Sorry Arnold)
more genitic mutation....Arnie SAVES 6th day
Well I will admit, visually I like the predalien better than the newborn. But the predalien's floppy dreadlocks, horrible roar and its lame ass canon-breaking reproductive methods, place it on the train to ballsuckville, and with a one way ticket I might add.
Dreadlocks push but i wouldn't say break the boundry....roar will probably and hopefully be fixed and finally the reproduction meathod might work better on film than i a couple sentances
Roar.... ???........oh you mean the burp ::) ;)
Quote from: Pred-Wolf on Nov 24, 2007, 05:42:03 AM
Roar.... ???........oh you mean the burp ::) ;)
No I mean the roar in the green band trailer. What the hell are you talking about when you say, burp? I've got to check that out/mock it.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 24, 2007, 05:43:13 AM
Quote from: Pred-Wolf on Nov 24, 2007, 05:42:03 AM
Roar.... ???........oh you mean the burp ::) ;)
No I mean the roar in the green band trailer. What the hell are you talking about when you say, burp? I've got to check that out/mock it.
He's calling the roar a burp lol
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Nov 24, 2007, 05:46:32 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 24, 2007, 05:43:13 AM
Quote from: Pred-Wolf on Nov 24, 2007, 05:42:03 AM
Roar.... ???........oh you mean the burp ::) ;)
No I mean the roar in the green band trailer. What the hell are you talking about when you say, burp? I've got to check that out/mock it.
He's calling the roar a burp lol
But its a distinct roar, and its not during the battle with Wolf or at least not spliced in with shots of that during the time it happens in the trailer.
Sounds like one hell of a burp. Awful sound.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 24, 2007, 05:55:36 AM
Sounds like one hell of a burp. Awful sound.
awful indeed. But I think there may be two instances of two different horrible noises. The roar is not in the red band trailer and I'm not sure if its in the population trailer.
(The one I'm talking about is in the green band trailer at the 1:11 mark.)
Also I think its time to break out this pic again. lol.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.constantthreat.net%2Fothershit%2Fvomit.jpg&hash=33e1814c39ea3cbfbd8577f6369a55f4ffa56904)
^ we need more of these ;D
Quote from: Spaghetti on Nov 24, 2007, 06:24:00 AM
^ we need more of these ;D
allright. What type of situation/scene should I do next?
(And no its not my desktop background although I thought about it, after I made it in paint. lol)
Pizza boy vs Predator
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 24, 2007, 06:25:14 AM
Quote from: Spaghetti on Nov 24, 2007, 06:24:00 AM
^ we need more of these ;D
allright. What type of situation/scene should I do next?
(And no its not my desktop background although I thought about it, after I made it in paint. lol)
You could try something that would describe the DEEP teen drama that will unfold in the school swimming pool *cough*
Or just do the obvious and remind us how "badass/hardcore/back-to-the-roots" wolf is.
Damn, this makes me wanna do my own.
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Nov 24, 2007, 06:30:13 AM
Pizza boy vs Predator
yes will do. But im doing one of colin strause as we speak. lol.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 24, 2007, 06:44:13 AM
yes will do. But im doing one of colin strause as we speak. lol.
I don't know about that...I wouldn't post it if it's too abusive...you may just get banned for it, if you really want us to see it I suggest sending it via PM...you know who would get a laugh out of it...
LOL ;D
Nevermind...it's not bad at all...but it is fu<king hysterical! :D
EDIT: Wow...where did it go!?
Yeah, making fun of someone's appearance is going a bit far...
Quote from: gameoverman on Nov 24, 2007, 06:55:35 AM
Yeah, making fun of someone's appearance is going a bit far...
damn. So if anyone wants it. just send me a pm.
I'm still looking forward to Pizza Boy vs. Wolf...actually you should do a series of them, Pizza Boy vs. whatever...would be funny as hell... :)
Here is Molly vs. Wolf. I'll work on the pizza boy vs. wolf tomorrow.(He'll be holding the pizza too, not just the gun. lol.)
anway. Wolf must be a sexual predator not just a predator. lol.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.constantthreat.net%2Fothershit%2Fcandy.jpg&hash=e43ba6697ecb5cc38ede01ae79216a34f476139b)
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 24, 2007, 05:58:39 AM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.constantthreat.net%2Fothershit%2Fvomit.jpg&hash=33e1814c39ea3cbfbd8577f6369a55f4ffa56904)
haha, hilarious :D
still can't understand, how french kiss with vomiting could be considered as a face rape.
guess stan marsh from south park is face raping wendy eveytime he sees her then.
Quote from: vehtam on Nov 24, 2007, 07:37:06 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 24, 2007, 05:58:39 AM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.constantthreat.net%2Fothershit%2Fvomit.jpg&hash=33e1814c39ea3cbfbd8577f6369a55f4ffa56904)
haha, hilarious :D
still can't understand, how french kiss with vomiting could be considered as a face rape.
guess stan marsh from south park is face raping wendy eveytime he sees her then.
I know its not going to be exactly like this, I Just used this as a gross exaggeration, pun-intended, that totally shows how ridiculous the general idea is.
Anway so it doesn't get lost in the clutter of posts.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.constantthreat.net%2Fothershit%2Fcandy.jpg&hash=e43ba6697ecb5cc38ede01ae79216a34f476139b)
Its not ridiculous, I love it. Its a tube not vomit! Gahh.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 24, 2007, 07:40:19 AM
I know its not going to be exactly like this, I Just used this as a gross exaggeration, pun-intended, that totally shows how ridiculous the general idea is.
i know, and it's fu*king awesome, great work :D. i guess everybody knows, that chet vomits inside the mouth :)
It inserts a tube!!!!
Quote from: Plokoon111 on Nov 24, 2007, 07:43:45 AM
It inserts a tube!!!!
oh stop it, you're ruining the fun. The pic is funny and you know it.
Quote from: Plokoon111 on Nov 24, 2007, 07:43:45 AM
It inserts a tube!!!!
i'm inserting my toungue in my girlfriends mouth too. if i spit inside, is it making me face rapist? i don't think so ;)
what, no comments on this one yet?
lol.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.constantthreat.net%2Fothershit%2Fcandy.jpg&hash=e43ba6697ecb5cc38ede01ae79216a34f476139b)
The fleshy tone makes it look like a fan with mental issues is soliciting that kid. :o
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Nov 24, 2007, 08:03:22 AM
The fleshy tone makes it look like a fan with mental issues is soliciting that kid. :o
I couldn't find the exact Predator skin tone, it was the closest one. lol. (also it would be one freckly son of a bitch if that was a person with a predator costume, as i tried to add those freckle-like marks as you can plainly see.)
The kid is supposed to be Molly from avp-r as well, I tried to make it as recognizable as possible. I used the still from the red band trailer where kelly is holding her as the model for her face. lol.
You know what I find shocking? That there is 205 pages of bickering about a movie that a lot of fans wont see/will hate. And it's about predalien reproductive methods. Which for 'all intensive purposes' is cannon.
Quote from: Weasel on Nov 24, 2007, 09:20:05 AM
You know what I find shocking? That there is 205 pages of bickering about a movie that a lot of fans wont see/will hate. And it's about predalien reproductive methods. Which for 'all intensive purposes' is cannon.
206 to be exact, and thats the point disucssing the facts.
Quote from: Plokoon111 on Nov 24, 2007, 07:43:45 AM
It inserts a tube!!!!
Not strictly a tube. It's the inner mouth.
Quote from: vehtam on Nov 24, 2007, 07:45:55 AM
i'm inserting my toungue in my girlfriends mouth too. if i spit inside, is it making me face rapist? i don't think so ;)
No, since your tongue and stomach don't double as reproductive organs, but it
would make you rather inconsiderate. :)
Quote from: Weasel on Nov 24, 2007, 09:20:05 AM
You know what I find shocking? That there is 205 pages of bickering about a movie that a lot of fans wont see/will hate. And it's about predalien reproductive methods. Which for 'all intensive purposes' is cannon.
We'll all see it and the Predalien is still just another Alien, even if it looks different. This film is meant to be basing on what all the
other Aliens in their own films have done, which really
are canon.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 24, 2007, 06:47:17 PM
No, since your tongue and stomach don't double as reproductive organs, but it would make you rather inconsiderate. :)
;D What if I were to use one of my reproductive organs? ;D
"
She bit me" :o :-X
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 24, 2007, 05:43:13 AM
Quote from: Pred-Wolf on Nov 24, 2007, 05:42:03 AM
Roar.... ???........oh you mean the burp ::) ;)
No I mean the roar in the green band trailer. What the hell are you talking about when you say, burp? I've got to check that out/mock it.
At one point in the trailer it sounds like a burp but mostly it just sounds like something else in a bad way.
Quote from: Weasel on Nov 24, 2007, 09:20:05 AM
You know what I find shocking? That there is 205 pages of bickering about a movie that a lot of fans wont see/will hate. And it's about predalien reproductive methods. Which for 'all intensive purposes' is cannon.
Complaining about people not liking certain aspects of the film, is lame. If you love everything and want to bow before the mighty strause bros., that's your business, but stop pretending that if everyone doesn't agree saying nothing but flowery, sugar-coated positive constructive criticism or ass-kissery to them, that they then have to not voice their opinions.
Judging by how long this thread is, you know that this new idea, is extremely controversial. Its not just people bitching for no good reason. Some people actually like the Alien films, which if they did not exist, you would never have any avp film whatsoever. There are certain expectations when such iconic creatures are featured in a film, you can't just pretend any half-assed idea can count as canon. (which you and some others still mispell as "Cannon" by the way)
It's so f**king repetitive though. Every thread that somewhat mentions a predalien spawns into some discussion such as this. I'm not pretending. You can't just pick and choose what films are canon and which are not. Oh yeah, Starwars episodes 3-6 are the only canon ones. I'm not ass kissing the bros. I'm giving my opinion, so if you want to bicker about everything against the film stop pretending that just because I voice a opposite opinion than yours I'm either a zealous Strausi follower or a predator fanboy. If H.R. Giger had invented the puking method everyone would flip shit and call it creative thinking. Don't assume I don't like the alien films on a whim. It's the fact its 206 pages.
Just because you don't like something automatically doesn't make it not canon. My statements simply...states that it's getting kind of boring hearing the same people argument the same thing, when they state that they will not see the movie in theaters. Be mad all you want, it wont change the fact this movie will be made. So pretty much this is a giant thread bitching over elements of a new creature and new production method. This is like arguing over the ALIENS queen. You know absolutely nothing about about how Xenomorphs work in different bodies. And the fact that predators are probably massively different in biology than us.
I'm not saying that throwing up embryos is a grand idea and that it adds nicely to the alien reproductive style, I'm simply saying that 206 pages is a little extreme considering that a lot of it isn't constructive criticism but people using whatever means necessary to discredit it.
Quote from: Weasel on Nov 24, 2007, 09:19:54 PM
It's so f**king repetitive though. Every thread that somewhat mentions a predalien spawns into some discussion such as this. I'm not pretending. You can't just pick and choose what films are canon and which are not. Oh yeah, Starwars episodes 3-6 are the only canon ones. I'm not ass kissing the bros. I'm giving my opinion, so if you want to bicker about everything against the film stop pretending that just because I voice a opposite opinion than yours I'm either a zealous Strausi follower or a predator fanboy. If H.R. Giger had invented the puking method everyone would flip shit and call it creative thinking. Don't assume I don't like the alien films on a whim. It's the fact its 206 pages.
Just because you don't like something automatically doesn't make it not canon. My statements simply...states that it's getting kind of boring hearing the same people argument the same thing, when they state that they will not see the movie in theaters. Be mad all you want, it wont change the fact this movie will be made. So pretty much this is a giant thread bitching over elements of a new creature and new production method. This is like arguing over the ALIENS queen. You know absolutely nothing about about how Xenomorphs work in different bodies. And the fact that predators are probably massively different in biology than us.
I'm not saying that throwing up embryos is a grand idea and that it adds nicely to the alien reproductive style, I'm simply saying that 206 pages is a little extreme considering that a lot of it isn't constructive criticism but people using whatever means necessary to discredit it.
Well, It's not my fault the thread is this long. Tons of other people have posted here. But the fact that so many people are passionate about such a topic, shows they care about the alien franchise and just expect things to be done right. It's hard not to be critical when they aren't.
I don't mind the actual discussion but when people start to say stupid shit for the point of like I said before, just to discredit it.
"Well what about this..."
"This never happened...."
"Strause are stupid f**ks..."
I agree with you somewhat, but... now its being said that facehuggers might burst out of people instead of chestbursters. which would be bad...
I agree to that, it would be pointless to put facehugger embryos in the hosts.
Quote from: Weasel on Nov 24, 2007, 09:19:54 PM
It's so f**king repetitive though. Every thread that somewhat mentions a predalien spawns into some discussion such as this. I'm not pretending. You can't just pick and choose what films are canon and which are not.
As this is not a film exclusively based in the '
Alien' or '
Predator' series, it's always been a possibility that any released like this
could be dismissed as not canon.
I'd rather they not be, because it's easier that way, but if we see things which go against the rules set down in those films, there's not much point in trying to pretend it all fits together.
QuoteIf H.R. Giger had invented the puking method everyone would flip shit and call it creative thinking.
Not necessarily. Look at what happens when we debate Giger's designs for '
Alien 3'. Most people seem to agree that, while very artistic, they would not have suited it very well.
By contrast, what ended up being portrayed in the later film, '
Species', was actually a lot more biomechanical than those designs were.
QuoteJust because you don't like something automatically doesn't make it not canon. My statements simply...states that it's getting kind of boring hearing the same people argument the same thing
Then don't read them. :)
Most of the debates occur because someone tries to say Method X fits in perfectly well with canon, only for people with more knowledge of one of the relevant films to have to point out all the reasons why it doesn't seem to, all over again.
QuoteThis is like arguing over the ALIENS queen. You know absolutely nothing about about how Xenomorphs work in different bodies. And the fact that predators are probably massively different in biology than us.
The Queen fits with egg transformation: Queens are more efficient, with egging potentially being a way for the ordinary adults to
get a Queen facehugger.
The 'different bodies' thing doesn't work, as every Alien is
still just another alien, regardless of what superficial traits it might have enherited for the eternal features. As for Predator biology, that has nothing to do with any of this, unless you are of the mind PREdator DNA could have given them the oral thing, in which case you have to ask yourself why those hatched from humans and canines don't have a massive phallus on their crotch.
And hey, nobody's saying oral, in an d of itself, is necessarily a bad idea. They're saying that doing it to implant chestbursters goes against what was depicted on screen in '
Alien' - especially with the director now saying they feel the extended versions of the films are canon, in their own view.
Combining that with the fact that this 'Predalien' is meant to be an ordinary Alien transforming into a Queen, plus the admission of there already being "many" facehuggers already breeding in humans and... It does not bode well for trying to make what we know about it fit logically with all of the other films.
Theres always exceptions in nature. We've only seen two types of alien. Dog/Ox, which was quadrupedal and smaller, and humans. Both humans and dogs both got similar organs, breath oxygen etc. So predators could be massively different.
Plus like Colin stated, we've never seen a pre-queen. Who know, maybe normal pre-queens puke embryos into peoples chest cavities.
Quote from: Weasel on Nov 24, 2007, 10:16:34 PM
Theres always exceptions in nature. We've only seen two types of alien. Dog/Ox, which was quadrupedal and smaller, and humans. Both humans and dogs both got similar organs, breath oxygen etc. So predators could be massively different.
Not massively so. They're also humanoid, have the same number of eyes, external organs in the same place, are symmetrical, etcetera.
You might find the biochemistry would be different, but they'd still need organs to take care of the same functions as any other living organism does. They would also be placed in the most protective area, just like with us.
QuotePlus like Colin stated, we've never seen a pre-queen. Who know, maybe normal pre-queens puke embryos into peoples chest cavities.
It isn't a young Queen. It's an adult which is becoming a Queen and, if we're going to apply that logic, then we have, in the one on the Nostromo, which had the same situation.
The ones on the Nostromo and Fury did things this one isn't and saying it's influenced by Predator genetics is a cop-out. Similarly, the one on the Auriga
was a Queen being monitored throughout its entire development and the scientists were able to predict what would occur and when, because of studying it.
That's a fact even one of the directors referred to, in their recent posts. :)
So, we either take the Nostromo/Fury Aliens as a precedent or the pre-human cycle Auriga Queen. In either case, we know what they did and did not do.
And if Aliens could simply transform into Queens on a whim, there would never have been a point in Queens coming from eggs. Adults would simply march out of the nest and set one up on their own. It would be a lot less trouble, far more efficient and do away with the vulnerability factor.
We now even have it confirmed that one of the main reasons Colin gave for this; Queens supposedly needing to make themselves vulnerable by going out, putting themselves in danger and creating an advance army, is null and void, as there are going to already be "many facehuggers" doing what they do best.
While I'm open to being plasantly surprised by this film, there has been nothing so far to convince me that these sort of ideas have been thrown in there with much thought of what consequences they could retroactively have for the other films.
I'm glad that this claim that the Predalien reproduces by regurgitating is a lie. The new statement about the Predalien's method of infecting it's hosts sounds more and more ripped off from Vincent Ward and Fasano's Alien 3, or even how it was supposed to be feared that the adult in Alien was able to reproduce such as infecting the cat or whatever
Know what I think... it sticks the inner mouth down the throat, and inserts the embryo. It doesn't throw up on the victim. And my theory about why it does this... the brothers talked about Pred DNA having more dominant genes. I think the PA just took live birth from the Predator, and since it wasn't going to grow a penis or anything it just lays embryos out of it's inner mouth instead of laying eggs.
The new Reproductive system is open to interpretation, just like egg morphing.
This is confirmed.
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 29, 2007, 01:07:01 AM
The new Reproductive system is open to interpretation, just like egg morphing.
This is confirmed.
I still don't think that lets them off the hook though. You can't make up non-canon shit and then say" we don't explain the rationale behind it, you decide why it happens".
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 29, 2007, 01:14:19 AM
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 29, 2007, 01:07:01 AM
The new Reproductive system is open to interpretation, just like egg morphing.
This is confirmed.
I still don't think that lets them off the hook though. You can't make up non-canon shit and then say" we don't explain the rationale behind it, you decide why it happens".
Cameron effectively did that with the Queen. We already had a method of egg production (which is better), yet he made up some big f**k off monster to lay eggs, and left us to fill in the blanks.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 29, 2007, 01:14:19 AM
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 29, 2007, 01:07:01 AM
The new Reproductive system is open to interpretation, just like egg morphing.
This is confirmed.
I still don't think that lets them off the hook though. You can't make up non-canon shit and then say" we don't explain the rationale behind it, you decide why it happens".
Everyithing is subject to interpretaiton, so it's perfectly valid...not everything has a geeky answer to every detail in a movie...
Then there's no real reason for you to bait the fans that do have geeky explanation is there?
Yet here you are.
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 29, 2007, 01:16:21 AM
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 29, 2007, 01:14:19 AM
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 29, 2007, 01:07:01 AM
The new Reproductive system is open to interpretation, just like egg morphing.
This is confirmed.
I still don't think that lets them off the hook though. You can't make up non-canon shit and then say" we don't explain the rationale behind it, you decide why it happens".
Cameron effectively did that with the Queen. We already had a method of egg production (which is better), yet he made up some big f**k off monster to lay eggs, and left us to fill in the blanks.
yeah, but is it really a good parallel? Saying the predator's genes are "dominant" and certain alien ones become recessive is really too convenient for the whole idea at that point. Why would predator genes even if dominant over the alien ones, alter the reproduction in such a way as to lay embryos in a hosts mouth, unless predators reproduced orally in some ridiculous way?
And clearly they do not. The reasons for why a young queen couldn't do that normally are numerous and the reasons to why any alien cannot molt into a queen are numerous as well.
So its a lame cop-out. Shouldn't the script have the reason why this is happening written down, even if its not explained to the audience during the film?
If it was, where is the room to make up any interpretation?
Quote from: Aeus on Nov 29, 2007, 01:07:01 AM
The new Reproductive system is open to interpretation
Good. I can "interpret" it as a stupid idea.
I remember saying something about the pred genes having an affect on the reproduction method and I got laughed at.:(
I personally think this reproduction method would suit the predators really well....just because human born aliens didnt come with the plumbing doesnt mean that a predator born alien doesnt.
I'd like to see exactly how these super genes are so dominant that they can retranscript RNA on the fly.
QuoteI remember saying something about the pred genes having an affect on the reproduction method and I got laughed at.
Rightly so.
;)
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 29, 2007, 01:48:58 AM
I'd like to see exactly how these super genes are so dominant that they can retranscript RNA on the fly.
It's predator DNA...even predator DNA owns alien DNA...because the predator DNA has double plasma casters as well...
AvP3 will be a remake of Fantastic Voyage where the humans are injected into a Predators impregnated body and witness Pred DNA duking it out with Alien DNA.
HARDCORE AWESOMENESS!!!
Quote from: Gates on Nov 29, 2007, 01:52:54 AM
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 29, 2007, 01:48:58 AM
I'd like to see exactly how these super genes are so dominant that they can retranscript RNA on the fly.
It's predator DNA...even predator DNA owns alien DNA...because the predator DNA has double plasma casters as well...
:D
oh yes. Even the DNA.
I guess the film's music is about all that's left to like.
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 29, 2007, 01:59:42 AM
I guess the film's music is about all that's left to like.
not even
Quote from: The New Blood on Nov 29, 2007, 02:40:49 AM
not even
Naaa what's fair is fair, the music seems to be good, well at least I like it...I really want to hear the rest of it to give it the full two thumbs up, but judging from what I have heard it sounds like I will be liking it...
Can't wait for the fans that are going to yell at me because I judging something from a 1 minute clip...oh the smell of hypocrisy is foul...
Quote from: jimmylace on Nov 29, 2007, 01:21:54 AM
I remember saying something about the pred genes having an affect on the reproduction method and I got laughed at.:(
Because, with respect, it was a massively superficial interpretation (even 'comic-book interpretation', if you will) of scientific facts.
I'm all for inventiveness and such, but back when I was actively defending this film, there were a number of things discovered about it which made me think, hmm, there's going to be a such-and-such way of them doing this. It
won't be as simplistic as is being described. There are ways it can work.
One by one, I've found all these little pieces of the puzzle really
are just that simple - and it's really depressing.
None of this would ever have been such a big issue if the directors had not repeatedly stated in comments and interviews that they were doing all they could to adhere to canon. One cannot help but form the opinion that, to them, 'canon' could just be the matter of most human beings never finding out about Aliens until the future.
It'll be wonderfully entertaining, I'm sure of it. It might even be exciting. I just don't see, at this point, how it's going to be able to fit into the rest of the series before it, that's all.
Quote from: SM on Nov 29, 2007, 01:57:57 AM
AvP3 will be a remake of Fantastic Voyage where the humans are injected into a Predators impregnated body and witness Pred DNA duking it out with Alien DNA.
HARDCORE AWESOMENESS!!!
:D
Quote from: Xhan on Nov 29, 2007, 01:21:05 AM
Then there's no real reason for you to bait the fans that do have geeky explanation is there?
Yet here you are.
What are you talking about? Who's baiting? ???
Quote from: Gates on Nov 29, 2007, 02:44:06 AM
Quote from: The New Blood on Nov 29, 2007, 02:40:49 AM
not even
Naaa what's fair is fair, the music seems to be good, well at least I like it...I really want to hear the rest of it to give it the full two thumbs up, but judging from what I have heard it sounds like I will be liking it...
Can't wait for the fans that are going to yell at me because I judging something from a 1 minute clip...oh the smell of hypocrisy is foul...
You're judging the music from a 1 minute clip? What are you crazy?? :D :D :D
j/k :D
The producers from A:R (Which can hardly be regarded as canon) showed that the host's DNA does have a substantial effect upon the Alien's DNA. Even though the queen was cloned, and some of the genes got mixed up, it still developed a womb, which is twice as human as Ripley 8 is alien. This shows that alien DNA has a large number of gaps with which it can incorporate the host's genes. Inside the host's body, there must be, at a point, some sort of connection to the DNA helix, because how else would the Alien acquire characteristics from its host? If the predator reproduction method is with the mouth, the embryo's 'brain' maybe subconsciously copied the genes for that, knowing that when it became an adult, it would help to build a colony, because, possibly, the pred-burster felt the queen's presence disappear in AVP. I mean, It was right there in Scar when the Queen went down. And possibly knowing that it was the only one left, it made those alterations in its genes. I'm just saying that the reproduction method, scientifically, may not be as farfetched as some of the stuff we've seen so far.
Taken from Aliens.Conversation between Ellen Ripley and Bishop...making this reproductive cycle a hoax(in so many ways)
''Okay..now let me get this straight.They grabbed the colonists,took them over there,and immobilised them to be hosts for more of those... (Ripley points to facehugger specimens in stasis tubes)...which would mean lots of those parasites,right?...One for each person...over a hundred at least''.
''Yes..that follows''
''But each of these things come from an egg,right?...so whos laying these eggs?...
(Bishop,reffering to what would become the Alien Queen)...
''I don,t know...maybe its somthing we haven,t seen yet''.
'Alien Resurrection' changes were more to do with, as you say, the cloning process going astray. If they were 'wildstrain' Aliens, they would have ended up like the ones on the Nostromo or Acheron.
QuoteThe producers from A:R (Which can hardly be regarded as canon) showed that the host's DNA does have a substantial effect upon the Alien's DNA.
Hardly canon? :D Bullshit.
Alien3 showed it before Resurrection and even then was only expanding on ideas expressed in Alien.
'Spose they're not canon too.
Who are these Giler Hill Caroll and Weaver jackoffs anyway?
the f**k they think they are.
Heathens and charlatans all!
A NEWT!
QUACK!
RE:My last post
...Ignore it...and maybe it will go away :D.....and there you have it in a nutshell.
Now wheres my NECA Predator with 1300 points of articulation.
Quote from: SM on Nov 30, 2007, 01:12:20 AM
QuoteThe producers from A:R (Which can hardly be regarded as canon) showed that the host's DNA does have a substantial effect upon the Alien's DNA.
Hardly canon? :D Bullshit.
Alien3 showed it before Resurrection and even then was only expanding on ideas expressed in Alien.
'Spose they're not canon too.
all i was implying, was that the movie in general, sucked. But i was using instances from it to make my point >
because, even though it sucked, its still an alien movie. Sorry for the stop, but I'm writing this on a psp.
You got skills son.
Thanks.
When I type on my PSP it just makes me want to break the psp. Patience is a virtue.
Yeah. It takes forever. :D
This is interesting; from James Cameron in Starlog (1992):
QuoteIn my version of the Alien life cycle, the infestation of the colony would proceed like this:
1. Russ Jorden attacked, they radio for rescue.
2. Rescue party investigates ship...several members facehuggered... brought back to base for treatment.
3. Several "chestbursters" free themselves from hosts, escape into ducting, begin to grow.
4. Extrapolating from entomology (ants, termites, etc.), an immature female, one of the first to emerge from hosts, grows to become a new queen, while males become drones or warriors. Subsequent female larvae remain dormant or are killed by males... or biochemically sense that a queen exists and change into males to limit waste. The Queen locates a nesting spot (the warmth of the atmosphere station heat exchanger level being perfect for egg incubation) and becomes sedentary. She is then tended by the males as her abdomen swells into a distended egg sac. The drones and warriors also secrete a resinous building material to line the structure, creating niches in which they may lie dormant when food supplies and/or hosts for futher reproduction become depleted (i.e. when all the colonists are used up). They are discovered in this condition by the troopers, but quickly emerge when new hosts present themselves.
http://web.archive.org/web/20000311004345/http://www.loop.com/~thrawn/cameron/article4.htm (http://web.archive.org/web/20000311004345/http://www.loop.com/~thrawn/cameron/article4.htm)
@ gameoverman
nice post! So .. if a female alien can swith to male .. then a male can also switch to female ...
haha ... so .. they can molt into queens ...
guys who complain about AvPr now have a big problem ;D ... now they will complain on Aliens .. looool
Quote from: Ballzanya on Nov 29, 2007, 01:21:12 AM
yeah, but is it really a good parallel? Saying the predator's genes are "dominant" and certain alien ones become recessive is really too convenient for the whole idea at that point. Why would predator genes even if dominant over the alien ones, alter the reproduction in such a way as to lay embryos in a hosts mouth, unless predators reproduced orally in some ridiculous way?
And clearly they do not. The reasons for why a young queen couldn't do that normally are numerous and the reasons to why any alien cannot molt into a queen are numerous as well.
So its a lame cop-out. Shouldn't the script have the reason why this is happening written down, even if its not explained to the audience during the film?
If it was, where is the room to make up any interpretation?
And you know that from .... ? ::)
greetz
Quote from: $cHm0cK on Dec 03, 2007, 09:18:07 PM
@ gameoverman
nice post! So .. if a female alien can swith to male .. then a male can also switch to female ...
haha ... so .. they can molt into queens ...
guys who complain about AvPr now have a big problem ;D ... now they will complain on Aliens .. looool
What the hell are you talking about? We have known that information for ages, it's nothing new...he's saying that in his mind when writing the script and progressing the story, that's how it went, but guess what...
IT WAS NEVER FILMED OR SHOWN WITHIN THE FILM, and Jimbo's theory was subsequently put to rest in
Alien3 when it was shown
ON SCREEN that they are
BORN Queens...
Thanks for coming...try again next time... ;)
Yeah, people complained about that, too. You guys are 21 years too late to be saying 'Well no-one complains about Aliens'.
Queen moulting can work. There, I said it. But the Bros didn't put enough thought into it.
Look at it like this. Sure, a drone can stick a host to a wall and turn it into an egg ... but what if there are no hosts? What if the only thing around is the one it came out of, and what if it has to eat it? Then it's screwed. But wait, it can turn into a Queen, poop out eggs, and die of old age waiting for something to come along and get hugged.
Except in AvP Requiem, there are hosts. Lots of them, in fact.
In terrestrial zoology there are organisms with three reproductive methods, except they all respond to different stimuli. If A, go to method 1; if B, go to method 2, etc. Here, we have two methods - Moulting and morphing - which respond to exactly the same stimulus - No Queen - in exactly the same circumstances - the presence of hosts. And there's your problem.
Another good point from Sil. I would be much easier and better for bros to actualy change a Scarburster a litle bit, to make ti look like queen burster. But no..........
To be fair, we've never seen what a Predalien Queen burster looks like...
Shouldn't make that much of a difference. And Colin said it was a drone anyway.
Quote from: Gates on Dec 03, 2007, 09:36:57 PM
What the hell are you talking about? We have known that information for ages, it's nothing new...he's saying that in his mind when writing the script and progressing the story, that's how it went, but guess what...IT WAS NEVER FILMED OR SHOWN WITHIN THE FILM, and Jimbo's theory was subsequently put to rest in Alien3 when it was shown ON SCREEN that they are BORN Queens...
Thanks for coming...try again next time... ;)
I didnt know it .. any Problem ? Yeah .. born queens .. females .. like cameron described it. ::)
Like i said ...
so thanks for your try ... but dont come again plz .. ;) ..
greetz
Quote from: Aeus on Dec 03, 2007, 09:44:10 PM
To be fair, we've never seen what a Predalien Queen burster looks like...
Queenburster with mandibles for example :D (Going to sleep)
Quote from: SiL on Dec 03, 2007, 09:47:35 PM
Shouldn't make that much of a difference. And Colin said it was a drone anyway.
Well seeing as he said the Regurgitation was open to interpretation, I'm going to interpret this how I want. :D
Too true.
I still prefer my hermaphroditic freak of nature idea. Explains the whole thing as a f**k up and leaves it at that.
Quote from: gameoverman on Dec 03, 2007, 08:45:33 PM
This is interesting; from James Cameron in Starlog (1992):
QuoteIn my version of the Alien life cycle, the infestation of the colony would proceed like this:
1. Russ Jorden attacked, they radio for rescue.
2. Rescue party investigates ship...several members facehuggered... brought back to base for treatment.
3. Several "chestbursters" free themselves from hosts, escape into ducting, begin to grow.
4. Extrapolating from entomology (ants, termites, etc.), an immature female, one of the first to emerge from hosts, grows to become a new queen, while males become drones or warriors. Subsequent female larvae remain dormant or are killed by males... or biochemically sense that a queen exists and change into males to limit waste. The Queen locates a nesting spot (the warmth of the atmosphere station heat exchanger level being perfect for egg incubation) and becomes sedentary. She is then tended by the males as her abdomen swells into a distended egg sac. The drones and warriors also secrete a resinous building material to line the structure, creating niches in which they may lie dormant when food supplies and/or hosts for futher reproduction become depleted (i.e. when all the colonists are used up). They are discovered in this condition by the troopers, but quickly emerge when new hosts present themselves.
http://web.archive.org/web/20000311004345/http://www.loop.com/~thrawn/cameron/article4.htm (http://web.archive.org/web/20000311004345/http://www.loop.com/~thrawn/cameron/article4.htm)
Oh snap!
Quote from: SiL on Dec 03, 2007, 09:37:10 PM
Yeah, people complained about that, too. You guys are 21 years too late to be saying 'Well no-one complains about Aliens'.
Queen moulting can work. There, I said it. But the Bros didn't put enough thought into it.
Look at it like this. Sure, a drone can stick a host to a wall and turn it into an egg ... but what if there are no hosts? What if the only thing around is the one it came out of, and what if it has to eat it? Then it's screwed. But wait, it can turn into a Queen, poop out eggs, and die of old age waiting for something to come along and get hugged.
Except in AvP Requiem, there are hosts. Lots of them, in fact.
And there were losts of hosts in Aliens as well :) Just admit that egg morphing was pretty much retconned out of the series. It has not been seen since the reintroduction of the deleted scene in Alien. If someone wants to come along and reintroduce it back into continuity, fine. But Just like the last several directors and writers, the Bros. have decided not to.
Quote from: SiL on Dec 03, 2007, 09:52:36 PM
Too true.
I still prefer my hermaphroditic freak of nature idea. Explains the whole thing as a f**k up and leaves it at that.
Due to the Predasteroids?
Quote from: $cHm0cK on Dec 03, 2007, 09:48:52 PM
so thanks for your try ... but dont come again plz .. ;) ..
Originality has officially been murdered...
Quote from: KidPresentable on Dec 03, 2007, 09:53:19 PM
And there were losts of hosts in Aliens as well :) Just admit that egg morphing was pretty much retconned out of the series. It has not been seen since the reintroduction of the deleted scene in Alien. If someone wants to come along and reintroduce it back into continuity, fine. But Just like the last several directors and writers, the Bros. have decided not to.
Agree!
@ Gates
love ya! It always makes me laugh!
greetz
"This is the to-pic that never ends
Oh, yes; it goes on and on, my friends..."
Quote from: KidPresentable on Dec 03, 2007, 09:53:19 PM
And there were losts of hosts in Aliens as well :)
Woopee - Your point? We know Queens are born Queens. Cameron's behind the scene explanation in the interview counts for nothing.
QuoteJust admit that egg morphing was pretty much retconned out of the series.
Except the Strause Brothers accept the idea as canon.
Quote from: $cHm0cK on Dec 03, 2007, 10:07:06 PM
love ya! It always makes me laugh!
It's all in good fun man... ;D
Although some people take what I say waaaaaaay toooooo seriously which blows but whatever, I'm glad you get a laugh out of it...
This thread is still going? :D
Quote from: Jenga on Dec 03, 2007, 10:24:38 PM
This thread is still going? :D
There over 3,000 post and 210 pages! :o
Quote from: SiL on Dec 03, 2007, 10:10:38 PM
Quote from: KidPresentable on Dec 03, 2007, 09:53:19 PM
And there were losts of hosts in Aliens as well :)
Woopee - Your point? We know Queens are born Queens. Cameron's behind the scene explanation in the interview counts for nothing.
If queens are born queens then that means more than one queen can be born at a time.
Quote from: SiL on Dec 03, 2007, 10:10:38 PM
Quote from: KidPresentable on Dec 03, 2007, 09:53:19 PM
And there were losts of hosts in Aliens as well :)
Woopee - Your point? We know Queens are born Queens. Cameron's behind the scene explanation in the interview counts for nothing.
I was under the impression that you believed a queen method of reproduction was better in situations in which few hosts are available. You said that egg morphing would be a viable option for reproduction if there were many hosts available. There were many hosts available in Aliens yet the queen method was taken.
Quote
Except the Strause Brothers accept the idea as canon.
But they didn't reintroduce it. So thus far it is still out of the series.
Quote from: Aeus on Dec 03, 2007, 10:38:08 PM
Sounds good to me.
*grabs your hand and starts skipping down Merry Happy Funtime Lane towards the sunrise*
Quote from: KidPresentable on Dec 03, 2007, 10:39:37 PM
I was under the impression that you believed a queen method of reproduction was better in situations in which few hosts are available.
No, that queen
moulting was better in a situation where there are
no hosts available.
QuoteBut they didn't reintroduce it. So thus far it is still out of the series.
The
Alien DC counts.
"No, that queen moulting was better in a situation where there are no hosts available."
The Predalien does start off on a ship full of predators which is gues he kills so at the time there are no hosts...if that's what you meant that's probably part of the reason it molts
You can turn dead bodies into eggs.
Quote from: SiL on Dec 04, 2007, 12:08:41 AM
You can turn dead bodies into eggs.
That's true, but long term turning into a Queen would work better.
So why have the option to egg morph at all?
That's the whole effing problem. It's not that they ignored it - Cameron ignored it - it's that they totally invalidated a concept that was around since the Alien's conception.
Quote from: CloakedKiller on Dec 03, 2007, 10:27:15 PM
There over 3,000 post and 210 pages! :o
It's the gift which keeps on giving. :)
Quote from: SiL on Dec 04, 2007, 12:13:47 AM
So why have the option to egg morph at all?
That's the whole effing problem. It's not that they ignored it - Cameron ignored it - it's that they totally invalidated a concept that was around since the Alien's conception.
Not very happy about that personally i always liked the idea of egg morphing..but honestly eggmorphing would be the best soultion for the Alien sitation, impreganate a crew memeber they go to sleep and get realsed on a new planet. It might not be as usefully in all cases but in some it could be invaluable
That'll probably be the supersecret method of reproduction in AvP 20. Old ideas constantly resurface after all.
Quote from: SiL on Dec 04, 2007, 12:13:47 AM
So why have the option to egg morph at all?
That's the whole effing problem. It's not that they ignored it - Cameron ignored it - it's that they totally invalidated a concept that was around since the Alien's conception.
So? Stuff like that happens to stories of any kind, all the time.
Plus it was a deleted scene.
Quote from: Weasel on Dec 04, 2007, 03:45:15 AM
Plus it was a deleted scene.
Yea, and even if the DC is Ridley's definitive version of the film, Cameron, Fincher, and Jaunet all ignored it because they either 1- Didn't care 2-Didn't like it or 3-Didn't suit their stories. The Bros. aren't any different.
Quote from: KidPresentable on Dec 04, 2007, 03:52:43 AM
Yea, and even if the DC is Ridley's definitive version of the film, Cameron, Fincher, and Jaunet all ignored it because they either 1- Didn't care 2-Didn't like it or 3-Didn't suit their stories. The Bros. aren't any different.
Except that all information points to this now contradicting it, unlike with them.
Ugh, thats a massive discussion your sparking there. And I point out is already has been discussed.
No "sparking" about it. That's what all of these pages have been about. :)
And I don't think we need a repeat. (Even though thats why there is 200 pages instead of 100)
Which is why, before replying to anything, people would be able to read back.
Humm after thinking for a few days i kinda believe i've figured out a way to make The new reproduction method more in line with "canon"... i'm also new to these forums so please be gentle on this noob ;D
Anybody remember how on Alien 1, the facehugger was helping Kane breathe? Being an alien species, how in hell did the facehugger "knew" of a humans need to breathe? To me this only makes sense if the facehugger continually "adapts" itself to the caracteristics of it's host.. and once this little idea was in place... what if the facehugger fully controls the DNA mixing for the chestburster? How come the chestburster manages to keep the most "useful" capabilities of it's host? In my mind the facehugger picks and chooses these capabilites among the hosts DNA, explaining why, in the presence of a more useful "reproduction method" it would definitely choose such a caracteristic for the chestburster... this also helps (in my mind) go over the problem of why human born aliens dont have penises ::) ;D sexual reproduction would be useless for them... obviously this idea raises a few more questions:
1 - What's the exact reproduction method of the predator? (must be definitely X-Rated)
2 - How come a tiny facehugger.. is able to choose the finest aspects of a DNA... or how come it can "understand" a Phenotype (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenotype) by looking at it's genotype? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genotype) In theory this should be impossible..
I've already come up with an acceptable answer to number 2.. what's your guys take on this?
;D
Edit: after reading this.. i feel more and more like a geek hehe
The length of this thread is remarkable.
Quote from: Miranasi on Dec 05, 2007, 12:04:43 AM
Humm after thinking for a few days i kinda believe i've figured out a way to make The new reproduction method more in line with "canon"... i'm also new to these forums so please be gentle on this noob ;D
Anybody remember how on Alien 1, the facehugger was helping Kane breathe? Being an alien species, how in hell did the facehugger "knew" of a humans need to breathe? To me this only makes sense if the facehugger continually "adapts" itself to the caracteristics of it's host.. and once this little idea was in place... what if the facehugger fully controls the DNA mixing for the chestburster? How come the chestburster manages to keep the most "useful" capabilities of it's host? In my mind the facehugger picks and chooses these capabilites among the hosts DNA, explaining why, in the presence of a more useful "reproduction method" it would definitely choose such a caracteristic for the chestburster... this also helps (in my mind) go over the problem of why human born aliens dont have penises ::) ;D sexual reproduction would be useless for them... obviously this idea raises a few more questions:
1 - What's the exact reproduction method of the predator? (must be definitely X-Rated)
2 - How come a tiny facehugger.. is able to choose the finest aspects of a DNA... or how come it can "understand" a Phenotype (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenotype) by looking at it's genotype? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genotype)
I've already come up with an answer to number 2.. what's your guys take on this?
;D
why when new peole get here there posts are so long??? :D ;) ;D
just jokin, good points there....
We're all huge geeks! Hurray! ;D
Feels good to be a geek.
Thsi is pretty easy to figure out. Lemme start by noteing some official facts.
Alien warriors(drone) are dumb animals. They do everything because the queen tells them to or because instict tells them to. Everything they do is to further the hive including dieing in mass to help protect it or eliminate a threat (aliens with the remote guns as example). The only intelligent drones ever were in resurection because they had human dna like ripley had acidic blood. The AVP1 aliens were smart because that movie made no sense at all. ignore everyting in that movie entirely.
Alien queens are smart. Alien queens tell the drones what to do and can create plans (hiding on the dropship?).
When there is no queen present when the face hugger leaves the egg the face hugger will lay a queen embryo. It takes longer to gestate but comes out as a yung queen ready to go.
When there is no queen present and there are already drones around a drone will begin a metamorphis into a queen (read alien vs predator: prey the novel).
Now for what i think happened.
The predalien in AVP-R was a premature queen. With the queen dead it was the "oldest" drone and so it began to change into a queen. It bossed the others around, it was bigger, and it has the start of a crest around its head and going back along its head.
The laying embryos directly into hosts is because it has not reached an egg laying stage. Its mass producing drones to get a hive started. Throughout the movie hive space keeps trying to get laid down. Then the pred shows up and the predalien comands the drones to book it to try to find new ground (there numbers are too small at the moment. She wants to get a hive started, not have it all destroyed before it can get going). The predalien was also much bigger then the others. I think this was less because it was a predalien and more because it was on its way to queendom. Given another week. she probably would have begun the formation of a egg chamber and had the drones bring hosts to her instead.
I.E. the life cycle has not changed. We just got to see a step in the life cycle that most people never do. A queen before it has fully developed just trying to get its hive off the ground. The fact that the predalien ended up being the premature queen is a matter of circumstance.
Quote from: Lance845 on Apr 16, 2008, 11:41:05 PM
Thsi is pretty easy to figure out. Lemme start by noteing some official facts.
Alien warriors(drone) are dumb animals.
And at this point nobody reads the rest of your post. I sure didn't.
Then you missed out on an answer that makes sense. Why not take a minute to read. It all made sense to me after 5 seconds when I saw the movie back on opening day.
Quote from: Lance845 on Apr 16, 2008, 11:50:39 PM
Then you missed out on an answer that makes sense. Why not take a minute to read. It all made sense to me after 5 seconds when I saw the movie back on opening day.
Because when you start with that sentence, you obviously don't know what you're talking about and haven't been paying enough attention to the movies.
watch the movies and read the cannon. The drones are pure instict. They do what the queen tells them. She says run at chain guns and die they do that. They hide in dark places. they grab bodies and cacoon them. Why did the drone in Alien cacoon dallas? Cause its instinct is to do so. There were no eggs for it to use. But it dosent pay attention to that. Predators have no toruble killing drones because they are just animals.
Maybe you havent. The only smart drones ever were the resurection drones (which were not real aliens) and the avp 1 drones, which were part of a movie where the drones bit the queen to set her free and the predator couldnt close its mouth all the way. Also where a elder predator gave a human pred tech. The only movies were the aliens (besides the queen) are smart are movies that dont have real aliens in it.
wow i didn't know this thread existed.
yeah the new reproduction method is completly stupid, and makes the franchises look stupid.
The makers of AVP:R should actually watch the original movies next time. However, I hope they dont get a next time.
Quote from: Lance845 on Apr 16, 2008, 11:54:00 PM
watch the movies and read the cannon.
The movies are the canon.
QuoteThey do what the queen tells them.
The
only time we've seen a Queen have command over Aliens was when she told them to back off in the nest. That's like saying I control all children under the age of 12 because you see me telling them to do something once and they do it. Bravo, your logic fails.
QuoteShe says run at chain guns and die they do that.
You do realise humans do just this, right? It's a tactic. It's no measure of stupidity.
QuoteWhy did the drone in Alien cacoon dallas? Cause its instinct is to do so.
It was turning him into an egg. Further proof I don't need to read your first post because you don't know what you're talking about.
QuotePredators have no toruble killing drones because they are just animals.
What about -- Oh, wait. I lied. I did read one sentence of your original post other than the two I quoted. Ignore AvP.
Ya-huh.
if you dont like that "fact" then just read the theory.
Now for what i think happened.
The predalien in AVP-R was a premature queen. With the queen dead it was the "oldest" drone and so it began to change into a queen. It bossed the others around, it was bigger, and it has the start of a crest around its head and going back along its head.
The laying embryos directly into hosts is because it has not reached an egg laying stage. Its mass producing drones to get a hive started. Throughout the movie hive space keeps trying to get laid down. Then the pred shows up and the predalien comands the drones to book it to try to find new ground (there numbers are too small at the moment. She wants to get a hive started, not have it all destroyed before it can get going). The predalien was also much bigger then the others. I think this was less because it was a predalien and more because it was on its way to queendom. Given another week. she probably would have begun the formation of a egg chamber and had the drones bring hosts to her instead.
QuoteAlien warriors(drone) are dumb animals.
How to get your post ignored in one easy step.
Quotewatch the movies and read the cannon.
We have.
A teensy bit more than you from the look of it.
Quote from: Lance845 on Apr 16, 2008, 11:58:22 PM
The predalien in AVP-R was a premature queen. With the queen dead it was the "oldest" drone and so it began to change into a queen.
Which we know shouldn't happen because, in the absence of a Queen, Aliens transform hosts into eggs. That's what the Alien was doing to Dallas.
Sorry, I think I shot your theory.
Aliens are smart. Maybe instinct helps, but they are smart.
The only time they seemed... random... was when there was a huge hive. At that point, they were dominated by a queen of some sort. They still were smart, but tactically, not individually.
In AVP-R, an alien jumps in front of Chet.
Quote from: Lance845 on Apr 16, 2008, 11:54:00 PM
watch the movies and read the cannon. The drones are pure instict. They do what the queen tells them. She says run at chain guns and die they do that. They hide in dark places. they grab bodies and cacoon them. Why did the drone in Alien cacoon dallas? Cause its instinct is to do so. There were no eggs for it to use. But it dosent pay attention to that. Predators have no toruble killing drones because they are just animals.
What are you talking about? Aliens have been shown in the movies to be pretty smart. I don't think they are "just animals" as you put it. By the way they didn't run at chain guns they ran at sentry turrets, which had a finite amount of ammo as well. The tactic was to run the guns out of ammo and they did, and it was a smart tactic because they still had enough drones to easily assault the control room.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 17, 2008, 12:00:44 AM
Quote from: Lance845 on Apr 16, 2008, 11:58:22 PM
The predalien in AVP-R was a premature queen. With the queen dead it was the "oldest" drone and so it began to change into a queen.
Which we know shouldn't happen because, in the absence of a Queen, Aliens transform hosts into eggs. That's what the Alien was doing to Dallas.
Sorry, I think I shot your theory.
That's not canon.
Quote from: Chocolate man! on Apr 17, 2008, 01:38:08 AM
That's not canon.
Theatrically released special edition - Why not? People endlessly use
Aliens' sentry gun scene - Even this guy - in their arguments. Can't have one or the other.
And Aliens SE never got a theatrical run.
It got a very limited one. By which I mean some independent theaters played it in the early nineties.
It did?
Does that even count as a theatrical run?
The sentry gun sequence is probably the most damaging inclusion into the alien series. Because even though humans have rushed human gun emplacements since the civil war in the attempt to "overrun" them, nobody ever thinks of it as a human tactic. It's just a tactic ants use to overrun other bugs on a sugar cube.
It becomes instinctual and mindless over tactical.
And thus the comics, and guys like the Strause brothers, and fans that think like them take things like the sentry gun scene and use it to characterize the Alien.
Even Cameron wanted them to be smart. Check the cutting of the power (with commentary). Watch the Aliens try to slide fingers in and pick the lock when the marines flee into the airducts.
Yet he damaged the perception of them by adding those guns because every writer, director, fanboy impressed with Aliens uses "their just bugs," to justify their stories.
Sad since the very definition of the title character is suppossed to suggest foreigness or unfamiliarity.
I don't blame Cameron for Aliens. I enjoy the theatrical version of the film immensely, and wouldn't mind the SE if it wasn't for the inclusion of the new scenes shatters the pacing. But I'll always be semi annoyed that he opened the door and started the, "Aliens are dumbazz bugs lolz," movement by including those sequences.
People don't even look at the facts concerning the story anymore. You go to imdb and the marines wasted hundreds maybe thousands of Aliens because they are mindless creatures that need to be squashed and are only dangerous when you don't have a weapon. Despite the fact that the marines didn't have that much ammo, and even AFTER the sentry gun scene and the ops battle there are still enough left to make Ripleys motion tracker go haywire.
I don't think Cameron knew the sentry gun scene would have its own mini legacy. Or he wouldn't have included it. I don't think Cameron wanted the Aliens to be ants. I think he wanted them to be the Viet Cong, or the Afgani forces that beat off the U.S. and Russia respectively.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 17, 2008, 01:39:46 AM
Quote from: Chocolate man! on Apr 17, 2008, 01:38:08 AM
That's not canon.
Theatrically released special edition - Why not? People endlessly use Aliens' sentry gun scene - Even this guy - in their arguments. Can't have one or the other.
The Aliens special edition was an extended version, ALien Director's cut was an alternate version more then an extended cut, it chopped bits out and added things over the top.
Quote from: Chocolate man! on Apr 17, 2008, 03:04:34 AM
The Aliens special edition was an extended version, ALien Director's cut was an alternate version more then an extended cut, it chopped bits out and added things over the top.
Special edition's a special edition. Can't count one but not the other.
Plus, Lance845 mentioned the Dallas coccooning in his assertions, so it's fair game.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 17, 2008, 03:05:19 AM
Quote from: Chocolate man! on Apr 17, 2008, 03:04:34 AM
The Aliens special edition was an extended version, ALien Director's cut was an alternate version more then an extended cut, it chopped bits out and added things over the top.
Special edition's a special edition. Can't count one but not the other.
Yes I can. The ALien movie is actually called the director's cut while Aliens is called special edition. Also, ALiens special editon was actually released like that on DVD, while ALien Director's cut wasn't released on DVD untill the Quadrillogy (which is why AVPR unrated is canon, it was released as uncut, with only America and a few other countries getting a theatrical version on DVD.)
Quote from: Chocolate man! on Apr 17, 2008, 03:38:53 AM
Yes I can. The ALien movie is actually called the director's cut while Aliens is called special edition.
Aliens's special edition was always called the director's cut. It was famously one of the first director's cuts. They just renamed it later because every movie and its dog had a director's cut. Now every movie and its dog has an extended edition. Eventually it'll be called the Super Rainbow Power Funtime Version, and it'll still be a director's cut.
QuoteAlso, ALiens special editon was actually released like that on DVD, while ALien Director's cut wasn't released on DVD untill the Quadrillogy
The
Alien director's cut was made
for the Quadrilogy. Fox liked it so much they shoved it in theaters as well on a slightly restricted release to rake in some extra dough. None of the new scenes on the movie have any real conflict with the original cut of the film.
Just because
Aliens' extended/director's cut was released first doesn't make
Alien's director's cut any less canon.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 17, 2008, 03:42:47 AM
Quote from: Chocolate man! on Apr 17, 2008, 03:38:53 AM
Yes I can. The ALien movie is actually called the director's cut while Aliens is called special edition.
Aliens's special edition was always called the director's cut. It was famously one of the first director's cuts. They just renamed it later because every movie and its dog had a director's cut. Now every movie and its dog has an extended edition. Eventually it'll be called the Super Rainbow Power Funtime Version, and it'll still be a director's cut.
QuoteAlso, ALiens special editon was actually released like that on DVD, while ALien Director's cut wasn't released on DVD untill the Quadrillogy
The Alien director's cut was made for the Quadrilogy. Fox liked it so much they shoved it in theaters as well on a slightly restricted release to rake in some extra dough. None of the new scenes on the movie have any real conflict with the original cut of the film.
Just because Aliens' extended/director's cut was released first doesn't make Alien's director's cut any less canon.
I agree with that, but as you said, Alien director's cut was made especially for the quadrillogy and to make some extra cash, Aliens was released as an actuall director's cut (unlike the ALien DC, the director actually liked it better than the theatrical version) and was treated as basically a revised but still canon version of ALiens.
And yet Ridley said he always liked the scene, and only cut it for time. So in that regard, it's a genuine director's cut - He got to re add a scene he'd wanted in there.
The extended version of Aliens has been always been referred to as a Special Edition since 1992. It just a term. Cameron re-edited the film - ergo it's a
directors cut.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Apr 17, 2008, 02:28:09 AM
The sentry gun sequence is probably the most damaging inclusion into the alien series. Because even though humans have rushed human gun emplacements since the civil war in the attempt to "overrun" them, nobody ever thinks of it as a human tactic. It's just a tactic ants use to overrun other bugs on a sugar cube.
It becomes instinctual and mindless over tactical.
And thus the comics, and guys like the Strause brothers, and fans that think like them take things like the sentry gun scene and use it to characterize the Alien.
Even Cameron wanted them to be smart. Check the cutting of the power (with commentary). Watch the Aliens try to slide fingers in and pick the lock when the marines flee into the airducts.
Yet he damaged the perception of them by adding those guns because every writer, director, fanboy impressed with Aliens uses "their just bugs," to justify their stories.
Sad since the very definition of the title character is suppossed to suggest foreigness or unfamiliarity.
I don't blame Cameron for Aliens. I enjoy the theatrical version of the film immensely, and wouldn't mind the SE if it wasn't for the inclusion of the new scenes shatters the pacing. But I'll always be semi annoyed that he opened the door and started the, "Aliens are dumbazz bugs lolz," movement by including those sequences.
People don't even look at the facts concerning the story anymore. You go to imdb and the marines wasted hundreds maybe thousands of Aliens because they are mindless creatures that need to be squashed and are only dangerous when you don't have a weapon. Despite the fact that the marines didn't have that much ammo, and even AFTER the sentry gun scene and the ops battle there are still enough left to make Ripleys motion tracker go haywire.
I don't think Cameron knew the sentry gun scene would have its own mini legacy. Or he wouldn't have included it. I don't think Cameron wanted the Aliens to be ants. I think he wanted them to be the Viet Cong, or the Afgani forces that beat off the U.S. and Russia respectively.
Quoteants
StarLog's quotes say that's exactly what he wanted: Giant Space Ants.
Even then, giant space ants would be pretty good. If people would just read up on ants they'd see some incredibly intelligent and complex structures, but noo...
The point still stands that Alien DC was just Fox mikling the money cow, where as Aliens SE is actually the proper version of ALiens.
You can argue semantics all you want, doesn't change anything.
If you use a film that was not the original release, then others can use a re-released film as a rebuttal.
You can't have it both ways, y'know.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Apr 17, 2008, 06:07:18 AM
You can argue semantics all you want, doesn't change anything.
If you use a film that was not the original release, then others can use a re-released film as a rebuttal.
You can't have it both ways, y'know.
But I didn't, someone else did, and I joined in with the argument, but you've got to understand, I'm on my own side, not the other guy's.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Apr 17, 2008, 02:28:09 AM
The sentry gun sequence is probably the most damaging inclusion into the alien series. Because even though humans have rushed human gun emplacements since the civil war in the attempt to "overrun" them, nobody ever thinks of it as a human tactic. It's just a tactic ants use to overrun other bugs on a sugar cube.
It becomes instinctual and mindless over tactical.
And thus the comics, and guys like the Strause brothers, and fans that think like them take things like the sentry gun scene and use it to characterize the Alien.
Even Cameron wanted them to be smart. Check the cutting of the power (with commentary). Watch the Aliens try to slide fingers in and pick the lock when the marines flee into the airducts.
Yet he damaged the perception of them by adding those guns because every writer, director, fanboy impressed with Aliens uses "their just bugs," to justify their stories.
Sad since the very definition of the title character is suppossed to suggest foreigness or unfamiliarity.
I don't blame Cameron for Aliens. I enjoy the theatrical version of the film immensely, and wouldn't mind the SE if it wasn't for the inclusion of the new scenes shatters the pacing. But I'll always be semi annoyed that he opened the door and started the, "Aliens are dumbazz bugs lolz," movement by including those sequences.
People don't even look at the facts concerning the story anymore. You go to imdb and the marines wasted hundreds maybe thousands of Aliens because they are mindless creatures that need to be squashed and are only dangerous when you don't have a weapon. Despite the fact that the marines didn't have that much ammo, and even AFTER the sentry gun scene and the ops battle there are still enough left to make Ripleys motion tracker go haywire.
I don't think Cameron knew the sentry gun scene would have its own mini legacy. Or he wouldn't have included it. I don't think Cameron wanted the Aliens to be ants. I think he wanted them to be the Viet Cong, or the Afgani forces that beat off the U.S. and Russia respectively.
The sentry gun scene is a perfect example of how people take things out of context. You pointed out yourself that humans have been using the same tactic the Aliens did through centuries of warfare. You can see that same tactic used up into modern times. It is a tactic that does incur heavy losses to the attackers, but it has been proven effective in many circumstances so I don't see that it is a bug-like-dumb creature tactic. Trying to say that Aliens are similar to Ants and therefore are dumb is a stupid argument as well. Ants are some of the most well organized and formidable species on the planet. They can kill/incapacitate creatures many times their size. Insects have been thriving on the planet far longer than we have, we need to show them some respect. If the planet had ants that were the size of humans they would probably conquer everything in a very short order.
On the Cameron Aliens SE. I remember him saying that he was not in favor of using the term "director's cut" because it implied that the version that went to theater's was not the one the director originally wanted. He went on to say that he only cut the movie down because at the time longer movies weren't favored by the studio, so they ultimately cut that stuff at to appease Fox. So I would consider the sentry-gun scene every bit as canon as the theatrical version.
Quote from: Xhan on Apr 17, 2008, 05:16:53 AM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Apr 17, 2008, 02:28:09 AM
The sentry gun sequence is probably the most damaging inclusion into the alien series. Because even though humans have rushed human gun emplacements since the civil war in the attempt to "overrun" them, nobody ever thinks of it as a human tactic. It's just a tactic ants use to overrun other bugs on a sugar cube.
It becomes instinctual and mindless over tactical.
And thus the comics, and guys like the Strause brothers, and fans that think like them take things like the sentry gun scene and use it to characterize the Alien.
Even Cameron wanted them to be smart. Check the cutting of the power (with commentary). Watch the Aliens try to slide fingers in and pick the lock when the marines flee into the airducts.
Yet he damaged the perception of them by adding those guns because every writer, director, fanboy impressed with Aliens uses "their just bugs," to justify their stories.
Sad since the very definition of the title character is suppossed to suggest foreigness or unfamiliarity.
I don't blame Cameron for Aliens. I enjoy the theatrical version of the film immensely, and wouldn't mind the SE if it wasn't for the inclusion of the new scenes shatters the pacing. But I'll always be semi annoyed that he opened the door and started the, "Aliens are dumbazz bugs lolz," movement by including those sequences.
People don't even look at the facts concerning the story anymore. You go to imdb and the marines wasted hundreds maybe thousands of Aliens because they are mindless creatures that need to be squashed and are only dangerous when you don't have a weapon. Despite the fact that the marines didn't have that much ammo, and even AFTER the sentry gun scene and the ops battle there are still enough left to make Ripleys motion tracker go haywire.
I don't think Cameron knew the sentry gun scene would have its own mini legacy. Or he wouldn't have included it. I don't think Cameron wanted the Aliens to be ants. I think he wanted them to be the Viet Cong, or the Afgani forces that beat off the U.S. and Russia respectively.
Quoteants
StarLog's quotes say that's exactly what he wanted: Giant Space Ants.
Then he's changed his tune between then and whenever he did the commentary for the quad.
Entirely possible.
Did anybody ever do a transcript of the interview? I remember him talking about the physical aspects being very bug like, but I don't remember reading about the mentality.
Of course, starlog Aliens issue runs over 200 dollars, so I never found the issue that important to buy it.
There is a "Quinn" Aliens magazine out there for much cheaper, is it any good?
Quinn? I've got the Official Aliens Movie Magazine at home. Is that it?
LOL
I've had some fun reading this past pages in this topic,
but please, stop calling the alien dumb animals,
that only would only upset alien fans and me being an animal able to read and act without useing my instinct all of the time.
Humans are animals to, the only difference is that we are destructive to our enviroment in numerous ways.
However, I'm a Predator fan boy more than an Alien fan boy, and what I have learned is that the Alien as a creature is the supreme target for the predator, the alfa prey.
And my views on the predator is that they are a race of superior hunters, they hunt to prove themselfs, they hunt for sport, they hunt as a lifestyle.
And what does that place the alien.
Would the ultimate hunter choose a dumb animal as it's most valued prey...
then the predator ain't that special at all.
The reproduction method in avp-r ain't one that I favor, it doesn't feel right to me.
I feel like they went over the top with that one and really ain't the predalien more of a face hugger than a Queen.
The Queen lays eggs containing face huggers, the face hugger lays embryos that becomes "baby" aliens...
This idea with chets reproduction ain't nothing more than a failed attemt to rip off spieces 2.
And Patric doesn't like what his cousin Chet has been doing behind his back...
Quote from: SM on Apr 17, 2008, 11:39:48 PM
Quinn? I've got the Official Aliens Movie Magazine at home. Is that it?
Yeah. I think Quinni is the publisher or something. Thats what its listed under at mycomicshop.
Any good?
Yeah.
My copy is missing the centre pages - they fell out. In fact the thing it falling apart after leafing through it a zillion times at high school back in the 1980s. It was the only place that had a Burke cocoon pic for ages.
Must have a flick through it again sometime (it's plastic bagged now thankfully).
mycomicshop had two for semi cheap. I've gotten stuff from them before, and the condition is generally spot on how they describe it.'
Might grab it on payday.
What are they asking?
And if you do snag one, scan the four centre pages for me will ya?
twenty two bucks for one I believe. But I won't mind scanning it.
Sounds reasonable.
I picked up the same sort of mag for Alien years ago, and the pricing sounds similar taking inflation and exchange rates into account.
Aliens Official Magazine: http://www.avpgalaxy.net/downloads/files/aliensofficialmag.zip
In PDF format. I found it a while ago.
Quote from: Darkness on Apr 18, 2008, 07:43:00 PM
Aliens Official Magazine: http://www.avpgalaxy.net/downloads/files/aliensofficialmag.zip
In PDF format. I found it a while ago.
I have that book and mag still with the posters, bought them from forbidden planet many moons ago.
I have that one too. I used it extensively to do a school report on Aliens when I was in grade 6. :)
(Was also the first place I ever noticed the "cloth-skin Aliens" ;)
Quote from: SM on Apr 18, 2008, 12:23:46 AM
It was the only place that had a Burke cocoon pic for ages.
Wasnt that when Ripley found him then left him for dead?
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Apr 18, 2008, 08:03:26 PM
I have that one too. I used it extensively to do a school report on Aliens when I was in grade 6. :)
(Was also the first place I ever noticed the "cloth-skin Aliens" ;)
I love the Alien poster, I think its the one just before it gets blown up.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Apr 17, 2008, 02:28:09 AM
Yet he damaged the perception of them by adding those guns because every writer, director, fanboy impressed with Aliens uses "their just bugs," to justify their stories.
I think the "bug hunt" quote did more for that, but few people realise that's an actual military term, meaning the same as a 'wild goose chase'.
Quote from: Darkness on Apr 18, 2008, 07:43:00 PM
Aliens Official Magazine: http://www.avpgalaxy.net/downloads/files/aliensofficialmag.zip
Excellent! I've always wanted to read that!
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Apr 18, 2008, 09:07:38 PM
I think the "bug hunt" quote did more for that, but few people realise that's an actual military term, meaning the same as a 'wild goose chase'.
jesus, imagine what would happen becaus eof that second term
Colin Strause: 'yeah, back to the roots!' <shows avp-r scene with gaggling aliens>