It seems like people are forgetting that the characters are what made the original films (Alien, Aliens, Predator to some extent) great. Even those who didn't like Alien 3 admitted that the acting was excellent and the characters of Clemens, Dillon, and Aaron were intriguing. Hell even AR had some fun characters like Johner and Dr. Wren.
But with AvP and AvP 2 it seems like the humans are just targets for the creatures. I know a lot of you find that "cool" or whatever, but seriously, why have filmmaking standards been set so low with AvP 2?
Just because this is a monster movie doesn't mean that the writers and directors can make the creatures cool and everything else shitty. Would Alien be the masterpiece its considered today if it didn't have any depth? No, it would have been forgotten after a month.
Paul Anderson was right when he said that actors sell the horror, but unfortunately, while he had good actors with AvP, none of the characters were all that interesting. Now with AvP 2 we have both a lame cast and a seemingly lamer cast of characters. Scotty? Ricky? *sigh*
Hopefully the main charaters will be great charaters this time we have more main charaters and not only a Ripley...and expedable people...we have a Dutch or Hicks in Dallas hopefully and the Sheirf might be a good charater and the Actors maybe will do good i haven't seen them in anything to judge them
Quote from: KillingJoke on Sep 07, 2007, 01:40:42 AM
It seems like people are forgetting that the characters are what made the original films (Alien, Aliens, Predator to some extent) great. Even those who didn't like Alien 3 admitted that the acting was excellent and the characters of Clemens, Dillon, and Aaron were intriguing. Hell even AR had some fun characters like Johner and Dr. Wren.
But with AvP and AvP 2 it seems like the humans are just targets for the creatures. I know a lot of you find that "cool" or whatever, but seriously, why have filmmaking standards been set so low with AvP 2?
Just because this is a monster movie doesn't mean that the writers and directors can make the creatures cool and everything else shitty. Would Alien be the masterpiece its considered today if it didn't have any depth? No, it would have been forgotten after a month.
Paul Anderson was right when he said that actors sell the horror, but unfortunately, while he had good actors with AvP, none of the characters were all that interesting. Now with AvP 2 we have both a lame cast and a seemingly lamer cast of characters. Scotty? Ricky? *sigh*
how do we know that the directers made the humans shitty...we saw a red band trailer...last time i watched it there was absolutely no characterization whatsoever...so for all we know they really develope the humans...and make us feel bad for them when they die..
but remember this is aliens and preds fighting...its not about humans...its about the fighting..who gives a f**k the humans are all fodder
Quote from: pred_alien on Sep 07, 2007, 01:44:05 AM
but remember this is aliens and preds fighting...its not about humans...its about the fighting..who gives a f**k the humans are all fodder
I do
Let me just say the name...
Aliens Vs. Predator. Thats what we're paying for....right?
Quotebut remember this is aliens and preds fighting...its not about humans...its about the fighting..who gives a f**k the humans are all fodder
Wow, thank you for proving my point. ::) And I'm sorry if my standards aren't as low as yours.
Quote from: KillingJoke on Sep 07, 2007, 01:46:52 AM
Quotebut remember this is aliens and preds fighting...its not about humans...its about the fighting..who gives a f**k the humans are all fodder
Wow, thank you for proving my point. ::) And I'm sorry if my standards aren't as low as yours.
and im sorry that if a movie is called aliens vs predator that i wanna actually see a the movie have aliens and preds fighting...
and what celtic p said
and have a shitty story? i'd rather have a great story with fighting then them fighting nonstop
Because the separate franchises are about the humans trying to survive the creatures. These VS movies exist for a different reason. To show the two creatures battle each other. And of course to milk the franchises even further until their tit is dry.
Many fans of franchises such as "Alien" and "Predator" are desensitized sociopaths who are most likely obese little bastards. These people are probably still dealing with emotional problems as a result of their parents divorce or being molested as a child.
I AM an a fan of both Alien and Predator BTW. I am in no way trying to say that all fans of these sagas are defected or even desensitized. Although, it is incontrovertible that many are.
Also, no one on this forum can say that music, film, or video games aren't somewhat responsible for certain behavioralism they may have. I don't care what anyone says, those columbine f**ks were directly influenced by "Marilyn Manson". I've read an accumulation of testimonies from people who were there who have reported both of the killers saying statements like," This is just like out of a Marilyn Manson video." and " They'll make a video game based on this one day". The truly unfortunate thing is that there is a video game in which you play as those two disturbed teenagers killing as many kids as you can.
We are social creatures, much like the primate. We were not meant to kill, or even fight unless it meant to protect our families or territories. I hate f**ks who cheer for serial killers and praise them as some sort of genius. They have mental defects, and are flawed in their ability to cope with the living conditions of the human society.
I want this movie to actually make me give a damn about the characters, I want some damn development!!! >:(
Quote from: CelticP on Sep 07, 2007, 01:46:37 AM
Let me just say the name...
Aliens Vs. Predator. Thats what we're paying for....right?
You can't really root for, or care about, a couple of alien monsters that kill the shit out of people. So personally, yeah, I'm paying to see Aliens and Predators fight. But it's all useless and stupid if I don't care about the humans.
Quote from: Bishop2 on Sep 07, 2007, 02:15:37 AM
Quote from: CelticP on Sep 07, 2007, 01:46:37 AM
Let me just say the name...
Aliens Vs. Predator. Thats what we're paying for....right?
You can't really root for, or care about, a couple of alien monsters that kill the shit out of people. So personally, yeah, I'm paying to see Aliens and Predators fight. But it's all useless and stupid if I don't care about the humans.
THANK YOU!!!!
Quote from: Bishop2 on Sep 07, 2007, 02:15:37 AM
Quote from: CelticP on Sep 07, 2007, 01:46:37 AM
Let me just say the name...
Aliens Vs. Predator. Thats what we're paying for....right?
You can't really root for, or care about, a couple of alien monsters that kill the shit out of people. So personally, yeah, I'm paying to see Aliens and Predators fight. But it's all useless and stupid if I don't care about the humans.
Uh...yes I can.
Quote from: Mymphisgold101 on Sep 07, 2007, 02:11:34 AM
Many fans of franchises such as "Alien" and "Predator" are desensitized sociopaths who are most likely obese little bastards. These people are probably still dealing with emotional problems as a result of their parents divorce or being molested as a child.
I AM an a fan of both Alien and Predator BTW. I am in no way trying to say that all fans of these sagas are defected or even desensitized. Although, it is incontrovertible that many are.
Also, no one on this forum can say that music, film, or video games aren't somewhat responsible for certain behavioralism they may have. I don't care what anyone says, those columbine f**ks were directly influenced by "Marilyn Manson". I've read an accumulation of testimonies from people who were there who have reported both of the killers saying statements like," This is just like out of a Marilyn Manson video." and " They'll make a video game based on this one day". The truly unfortunate thing is that there is a video game in which you play as those two disturbed teenagers killing as many kids as you can.
We are social creatures, much like the primate. We were not meant to kill, or even fight unless it meant to protect our families or territories. I hate f**ks who cheer for serial killers and praise them as some sort of genius. They have mental defects, and are flawed in their ability to cope with the living conditions of the human society.
Ok, I don't know how you got all of that from this topic, but you touched on a subject that I feel strongly about.
The media may influence us to a degree, but to say the Columbine kids became killers because of a musician is moronic. It was the kids that tormented them that caused them to crack. Not music, not video games.
I love how the Jack Thompsons of the world say videogames and movies cause violence. Really? We have less violence than any period before us. Was Billie the Kid affected by video games? Was Ghengis Knan a ruthless, killing ruler because he played Counter-Strike? Violence is human nature, not the cause of outward influences. Get a clue. ::)
well off subject but true
I'd say about 99% (or even more) of all characters in all movies are human. Predators and Xenomorphs are very different and unique as far as appearance, strength, abilities, etc. We want something different. Nuff said.
Quote from: CelticP on Sep 07, 2007, 02:18:56 AM
Quote from: Bishop2 on Sep 07, 2007, 02:15:37 AM
Quote from: CelticP on Sep 07, 2007, 01:46:37 AM
Let me just say the name...
Aliens Vs. Predator. Thats what we're paying for....right?
You can't really root for, or care about, a couple of alien monsters that kill the shit out of people. So personally, yeah, I'm paying to see Aliens and Predators fight. But it's all useless and stupid if I don't care about the humans.
Uh...yes I can.
Quote from: CelticP on Sep 07, 2007, 02:18:56 AM
Quote from: Bishop2 on Sep 07, 2007, 02:15:37 AM
Quote from: CelticP on Sep 07, 2007, 01:46:37 AM
Let me just say the name...
Aliens Vs. Predator. Thats what we're paying for....right?
You can't really root for, or care about, a couple of alien monsters that kill the shit out of people. So personally, yeah, I'm paying to see Aliens and Predators fight. But it's all useless and stupid if I don't care about the humans.
Uh...yes I can.
Have fun watching a movie about a couple of monsters who don't talk just pounding on each other for 90 minutes or more, then.
Quote from: Bishop2 on Sep 07, 2007, 02:23:52 AM
Have fun watching a movie about a couple of monsters who don't talk just pounding on each other for 90 minutes or more, then.
I could do that, actually. Besides, we know that isn't going to happen.
One thing that's great about each past movie besides AvP is that the characters are AMAZING. AvP 2 will have some pretty good characters...
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Sep 07, 2007, 02:25:22 AM
Quote from: Bishop2 on Sep 07, 2007, 02:23:52 AM
Have fun watching a movie about a couple of monsters who don't talk just pounding on each other for 90 minutes or more, then.
I could do that, actually. Besides, we know that isn't going to happen.
Yeah, obviously not. I'm just flabbergasted that anyone would want it. That sounds like the most boring film in the history of the world to me. It would be entertaining for about 6-7 minutes tops.
Ok, i'll do that. .
QuoteBut with AvP and AvP 2 it seems like the humans are just targets for the creatures.
That's because they are.
And to a large extent the same can be said for all the other films in the franchise. However we had the class of Weaver to carry the human side of things as well as Arnie to a lesser extent.
AvP had nowt, and I fear AvP2 will go the same way.
I would love great characterization, but I resigned myself long ago to the fact that I will never see a FOX film that has good characterization again. The same goes for a silent film; people would just complain that it's boring even if you put action in it up the wazoo. Sadly, audiences today go to the movie theater to say that they did rather than out of genuine interest or the desire to see truly well-made cinematic experiences.
the directors should have made a movie with no human presence...the hosts for the aliens could have been another alien lifeform....then you would have just aliens and predators on the screen..
Yeah that'd pack em in.... ::)
Quote from: iceman on Sep 07, 2007, 02:57:23 AM
the directors should have made a movie with no human presence...the hosts for the aliens could have been another alien lifeform....then you would have just aliens and predators on the screen..
You know what? You're right. I'm coming around on this. I think maybe they should've. It would've been hilarious.
When the fans are sitting there after an hour of Aliens and Predators stalking each other in the dark, with no dialogue and no characterization and no plot whatsoever, and they're getting ready to kill themselves from apathy, they could flash a giant message on the screen: "Didn't like the first one, huh? HOW ABOUT THIS SHIT?"
What I always liked about the video games was the feeling that the Colonial Marines had just as much a story to tell as the titular monsters. So while a human-less approach might work for an Alien 5, an AVP story deserves at least some human involvement.
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Sep 07, 2007, 03:02:22 AM
What I always liked about the video games was the feeling that the Colonial Marines had just as much a story to tell as the titular monsters. So while a human-less approach might work for an Alien 5, an AVP story deserves at least some human involvement.
A humanless Alien 5? That seems even less logical than a humanless AVP. How do you picture that working?
No one is saying we should have NO humans...were just saying we dont CARE about them. They help, but in the end, their fodder. Or atleast in this series.
No humans = no hosts for Aliens. Box office GOLD!!!
QuoteNo one is saying we should have NO humans...
Iceman is. And Chibi.
Did you read my post at all...? I don't think it's hard to understand simplified English when you...you know...speak it.
Quote from: SM on Sep 07, 2007, 03:05:26 AM
No humans = no hosts for Aliens. Box office GOLD!!!
QuoteNo one is saying we should have NO humans...
Iceman is. And Chibi.
Well they're wrong.
I mean, did anyone give a crap about "Laurie" in Freddy Vs. Jason? Seriously.
Quote from: CelticP on Sep 07, 2007, 03:53:46 AM
[I mean, did anyone give a crap about "Laurie" in Freddy Vs. Jason? Seriously.
Maybe her chest...I was scared when Freddy started slashing them. ;)
Quote from: CelticP on Sep 07, 2007, 03:53:46 AMWell they're wrong.
...Did my posts just suddenly go invisible? It would explain a lot.
Quote from: CelticP on Sep 07, 2007, 03:53:46 AM
I mean, did anyone give a crap about "Laurie" in Freddy Vs. Jason? Seriously.
Lori. And no...but it's not because she was human, it's because she was terribly cast. Monica Keena was alright on "Undeclared", but her horro movie acting was laughable.
I think that the wood that Lori walked on in the dream world was the best actor. It just stood there through all of that, I mean the kids running on it, the bald mutant falling off it, and then splashing all over the wood and it gets wet.. then we have Lori walk all over it.. and then Freddy and Jason stand on it, and then it gets set on fire.. I mean c'mon, is that wood an actor or what?
Back on topic (I think)
I love the human characters.. and the wood ones, but yeah. They are what makes the story seem scarier, more action packed, suspenseful, and woody.
All the acting in Freddy vs Jason was terrible. Except maybe the guy who played the tolken dork.
Most horror movies as of late have had horrible acting and horrible storylines that just tarnish the medium as a whole. Like Antman said in another thread, we just have to hope December rolls around and gives us a film that doesn't fall into mediocrity.
QuoteDid you read my post at all...? I don't think it's hard to understand simplified English when you...you know...speak it.
Yes.
Can you?
QuoteSo while a human-less approach might work for an Alien 5, an AVP story deserves at least some human involvement.
QuoteWell they're wrong.
Goes without saying.
Are we talking about Alien 5? No. We're talking about AVP. You seem to have forgotten the rest of my post in your desire to prove yourself right.
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Sep 07, 2007, 04:59:24 AM
Are we talking about Alien 5? No. We're talking about AVP. You seem to have forgotten the rest of my post in your desire to prove yourself right.
I still want to know how you'd do a human-free Alien 5.
As would I.
QuoteAre we talking about Alien 5? No. We're talking about AVP. You seem to have forgotten the rest of my post in your desire to prove yourself right.
Says the guy who was talking Alien 5...
Quote from: SM on Sep 07, 2007, 05:19:39 AMSays the guy who was talking Alien 5...
You sure are a persistent fellow.
QuoteI still want to know how you'd do a human-free Alien 5.
With Alien-on-Alien action, using a fan fiction written by only the best female Inuyasha yaoi writers.
On a more serious note...if you took O'Bannon's interpretation of a civilization transpiring before the giant cataclysm on Acheron/ LV-426, displayed their violent evolution, showed the cataclysm, brought the Space Jockeys into the picture while spicing things up with the Alien that undoubtedly came out of the eventually-fossilized Space Jockey killing the crewmates in a bit of a throwback to Alien, and then ended it millions of years later with the landing of the Nostromo's crew you might be able to make a good film. I'm not saying an utterly silent film, but silent as far as traditional human language (unless you wanted to add some finality to the ending by putting some dialogue from Alien in it).
It would
never happen and probably be critically panned as a horrible film since I'm no award-winning writer, but I'm just saying it could be done. I'd say it would make a nice platform to explain how the Preds have Alien eggs, but fans would just ***** about
that possibility.
Anyways, back to AVP2...
QuoteYou sure are a persistent fellow.
You talked about an Alien 5 without humans - then condescendingly tried to say you didn't. you shouldn't expect otherwise.
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Sep 07, 2007, 05:25:43 AM
Quote from: SM on Sep 07, 2007, 05:19:39 AMSays the guy who was talking Alien 5...
You sure are a persistent fellow.
QuoteI still want to know how you'd do a human-free Alien 5.
With Alien-on-Alien action, using a fan fiction written by only the best female Inuyasha yaoi writers.
On a more serious note...if you took O'Bannon's interpretation of a civilization transpiring before the giant cataclysm on Acheron/ LV-426, displayed their violent evolution, showed the cataclysm, brought the Space Jockeys into the picture while spicing things up with the Alien that undoubtedly came out of the eventually-fossilized Space Jockey killing the crewmates in a bit of a throwback to Alien, and then ended it millions of years later with the landing of the Nostromo's crew you might be able to make a good film. I'm not saying an utterly silent film, but silent as far as traditional human language (unless you wanted to add some finality to the ending by putting some dialogue from Alien in it).
It would never happen and probably be critically panned as a horrible film since I'm no award-winning writer, but I'm just saying it could be done. I'd say it would make a nice platform to explain how the Preds have Alien eggs, but fans would just ***** about that possibility.
Anyways, back to AVP2...
That was a a bitching idea, yet no-one would have the balls to make something like that, if it were done right, it would be a hit to be sure.
Quote from: SM on Sep 07, 2007, 05:30:42 AMYou talked about an Alien 5 without humans - then condescendingly tried to say you didn't. you shouldn't expect otherwise.
I brought up the fact that I thought one film might do well as a human-less picture as opposed to the topic in question, and suddenly I've made it my main point of contention in a topic about AVP2. Brilliant deduction there. If I'm being condescending, it's because I'm not in the mood to waste my time defending myself on something so obvious even a slow reader would put two and two together on.
Well thanks for clarifying that. And here all along I thought it was just because you were a smarmy twat.
Quoteand suddenly I've made it my main point of contention in a topic about AVP2
Never said you did. I responded to something CelticP said. Then you got all stroppy.
I am absoludly with you man!You cant do good movie where the favorites are the bad guys this is like to prefer Aliens from War of the worlds to kill all of humanity!
QuoteWhy does no one care about the human characters?
I do. Everyone should at least find someone they can relate to becuase that is what will make the movie a scary experience...
If you want them just fighting then why is everybody pissed about a possible storyline ???
Get the 2 beasts in a ring and let them fight would do ?
They ought to let Rob Zombie do an AVP movie, then everyone who hates humans , thinks they are fodder and only wants to see the Aliens and Predators killing would be happy. You would have a schlock movie of endless scenes of blood and gore , no story, cool klillers and worthless victims( like every cheap trashy slasher flick) to derive gratification from. What a way to carry on the classic franchises by reducing them to slasher tripe
Everyone who thinks a humanless AvP would be good have zero understading of how a movie works or even what it is.
I'm gonna write it in caps now:
A film, is a STORY. A story needs HUMAN (or antropomorphic) HEROES. Without talking about people and their reactions to SOMETHING, there is NO STORY. STORIES are told for us to recognise ourselves in them in one way or another and learn something about ourselves, conciously or not, small or big. What you want is closer to the Circus Maximus than telling a story.
Seriously, continuous violence can be fun how long? I enjoy people being slaughtered in creative ways, too, but just that would get REALLY boring after an hour. If not faster. Someonle put it really nicely in another thread: "The monsters drag you into the theater, the humans keep you in".
Why all of a sudden am I forced to choose? Characters or fighting? F*ck that! I want both! And Bishop is right. You can't write a script with no dialogue, it just won't work. You need a plot and you need characters to move it forward.
If there would be no humans, who would advance the plot? Predators? hell no, because apparently if we learn anything at all about the Predators that wasn't already stated in previous films, it's automatically considered bad regardless of weather or not the idea is seen on film. Aliens? Nope. You Need humans to make aliens.
Do you think the Alien film series would be as great if it wasn't for it's characters. The Nostromo crew, the marines, the prison inmates, and the hell with it, even the Resurrection characters had some good moments.
Maybe hardcore fans who want nothing but mindless fighting that makes no sense can be easily pleased, but general audiences are going to want more.
Why do you think the Spider-Man films take so much time for character development, despite being multi million dollar projects. It's because even though fighting and action is good, no amount of special effects will be able to compensate for shitty writting.
I guess our lesson to leave this film with will be..."we've gotta get to a phone!"
Quote from: Irritator on Sep 07, 2007, 02:11:07 PM
Everyone who thinks a humanless AvP would be good have zero understading of how a movie works or even what it is.
I'm gonna write it in caps now:
A film, is a STORY. A story needs HUMAN (or antropomorphic) HEROES. Without talking about people and their reactions to SOMETHING, there is NO STORY. STORIES are told for us to recognise ourselves in them in one way or another and learn something about ourselves, conciously or not, small or big. What you want is closer to the Circus Maximus than telling a story.
Seriously, continuous violence can be fun how long? I enjoy people being slaughtered in creative ways, too, but just that would get REALLY boring after an hour. If not faster. Someonle put it really nicely in another thread: "The monsters drag you into the theater, the humans keep you in".
he hit jackpot exackly.
however let me just say this.. this movie wont OBVIOSLY have as many dept as the previous alien/predator franchise and it will be just another cheesy b movie monster flick which will be forgotten right after they exit the theater. who ever wins, us fans will loose watching this pure crap characters and awful story. :'(
Quote from: Mymphisgold101 on Sep 07, 2007, 02:11:34 AM
Many fans of franchises such as "Alien" and "Predator" are desensitized sociopaths who are most likely obese little bastards. These people are probably still dealing with emotional problems as a result of their parents divorce or being molested as a child.
I AM an a fan of both Alien and Predator BTW. I am in no way trying to say that all fans of these sagas are defected or even desensitized. Although, it is incontrovertible that many are.
Also, no one on this forum can say that music, film, or video games aren't somewhat responsible for certain behavioralism they may have. I don't care what anyone says, those columbine f**ks were directly influenced by "Marilyn Manson". I've read an accumulation of testimonies from people who were there who have reported both of the killers saying statements like," This is just like out of a Marilyn Manson video." and " They'll make a video game based on this one day". The truly unfortunate thing is that there is a video game in which you play as those two disturbed teenagers killing as many kids as you can.
We are social creatures, much like the primate. We were not meant to kill, or even fight unless it meant to protect our families or territories. I hate f**ks who cheer for serial killers and praise them as some sort of genius. They have mental defects, and are flawed in their ability to cope with the living conditions of the human society.
What's that got to do with what we are talking about? This blog is about whether or not the human characters will be developed properly for the film. I'm all about seeing aliens and predators killing each other and humans to. At the same time i want to be able to feel emotion when i see human characters die.The dweeby humans in avp1 didnt even manage to shoot and kill one alien with their rifles let alone a predator. To top it all off i didnt feel bad for them at all when they died because of the lack of character development. Character development is what gives a film it's soul and sense of self. Now if i get upset as much as i did when hudson or poncho died in aliens or predator then this film will have pulled it off.
Poncho? Who the hell ever cared for Poncho? ;D
Again, to the people spouting off generalizations...please wait until the film is actually out. I hate Anderson's RE series, but you don't see me trying to tie everything I say to my opinion that Extinction will be just as disappointingly bad as the rest beforehand.
One time's okay. 50 times is pushing my patience.
And as a response to the people who think a human-less film can't work...for AVP, I want human interaction. You can really tap into the potential Aliens had with that. But don't think that if there's only one Predator scoring all kinds of amazing kills surrounded by Aliens that the audience won't lean a bit towards Pred favoritism. Why? Not just because of the cool kills, but because we can at least relate to another humanoid as opposed to a creature that is the perverted merger of all we consider sensual.
And as a response to the people who think a human-less film can't work...for AVP, I want human interaction. You can really tap into the potential Aliens had with that. But don't think that if there's only one Predator scoring all kinds of amazing kills surrounded by Aliens that the audience won't lean a bit towards Pred favoritism. Why? Not just because of the cool kills, but because we can at least relate to another humanoid as opposed to a creature that is the perverted merger of all we consider sensual.
[/quote
We are in agreement. And Gates Poncho was my childhood favorite. He was always just cool to me.
Quote from: EEV2650 on Sep 15, 2007, 06:58:33 AM
We are in agreement. And Gates Poncho was my childhood favorite. He was always just cool to me.
Yeah but cooler than Blain? C'mon man he aint got time to bleed... ;D
EDIT: Sh!t I forgot...what about Billy!?
Quote from: Gates on Sep 15, 2007, 07:03:19 AM
Quote from: EEV2650 on Sep 15, 2007, 06:58:33 AM
We are in agreement. And Gates Poncho was my childhood favorite. He was always just cool to me.
Yeah but cooler than Blain? C'mon man he's aint got time to bleed... ;D
EDIT: Sh!t I forgot...what about Billy!?
lol!
Well here's my list of favorite's from favorite to least favorite
1. Dutch
2.Poncho
3.Dillon
4. blain
5. billy
6.blaine
7. hawkins
8. mac
Quote from: EEV2650 on Sep 15, 2007, 07:19:54 AM
lol!
Well here's my list of favorite's from favorite to least favorite
1. Dutch
2.Poncho
3.Dillon
4. blain
5. billy
6.blaine
7. hawkins
8. mac
I'm confused... ;)
There is only one dude we allz need to care about, he is big, smokes alot of stogies, and says "GO RUN, GET TO DA
<---CHOPPPAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
In AvP R, they all look like retards, except the chick that gets nailed to da wall, she is cool dead.
oh, sorry gates. Blaine would be my #4
There are people who admire parasitic wasps for their ingenuity. Not to validate my fandom, but I'm just putting it out there that rooting for either species would probably turn some heads in civilized real world conversation.
Anyways, if you're not rooting for the parasitic organism then you're rooting for us or the hunter who murders, skins, and de-brains his kills. It's a Catch-22 regardless, so I figure I might as well root for the species I find most interesting.
Quote from: Bishop2 on Sep 07, 2007, 02:15:37 AM
So personally, yeah, I'm paying to see Aliens and Predators fight. But it's all useless and stupid if I don't care about the humans.
It's true, I've seen good horror movies (ex. Alien) and bad horror movies (ex. Jason X). In Alien, I cared for all of them, even though I knew who was going to bite the dust. In Jason X, I didn't care about a single one. Not a single one. We need good characters that we can love and want to survive.
Ugh...Jason X. The suck from that movie can still be heard in space. Yeah, it's so bad it defies what we know about sound and space. I hear that if you go to the highest peak in the world you can still hear it.
What I'd really like to see is the human characters actually do something like making plans and/or traps against the aliens and/or predators.
For example: in Alien how they tried to trap it in the airlock, or Predator where they set up a number of traps using their military skillz.
In AVP the humans were just cannon fodder. All they did was run away.
the characters seem to be throwaways. ie: audience waiting for them to die in gruesome ways not caring about them.
alien3 was the last time i cared for a character. those actors did a phenomenal job. figures they were british, best talent.
I'm getting bored on people dying and dying. I need something new in the character ,not only to run and survive but fight back and maybe they can win.
In AvP, people either die in gruesome ways or run away stupidly. I'd prefer Predator 1&2's main characters rather than AvP's one.
It's tradition dating back to the 70's, the characters are nothing more than victims and hollywood directors seem unwilling to buck the trend and go with strong characters who do fight back and do survive..Instead we get the constant the world is so bad and depressing that we have to depress the audience and hammer away at them that no one can survive or only 1 person can survive, because we want to reflect the world we live in...whatever happened to film as escapism?,,,think back to the classics of sci-fi, and I don't mean just the films of the 70's , 80's and 90's...I mean those films that that are truly classic and are counted among the best of all time, they were not nihilistic, they offered escape, thrills and yes hope and belief in the ability of the human species....Again if these directors and writers are so damn depressed about the world, there is a simple solution open to them...they should leave the world, shuffle off the mortal coil...and take your depression and belief that the world is utterly hopeless with you
Well, I can't completely say I don't care for the human characters from AVP:R, simply because I haven't seen the movie...so I can't care about anybody just by seeing their 2 second appearance in the trailer.
But, I could speculate and have fun while at it...
I don't care about the Dad and the kid, because they are hunters... ;D
I don't care about the War-mom because she's back from invading a country... ;D
OK I'll stop now, this is just me being silly!!
this part of the film will be very important for me....huge important...avp R looks like ( for me ) the best in the franchise......i hope that the shitty acting will not crash my idea
Do you know why you think they don't care about the characters?
Because you've seen two trailers.
So people who hunt, and ordinary soldiers in the military are bad? and we should show no concern or interest in them? The predator is a hunter and the aliens are mindless killers so they are good?
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Sep 07, 2007, 01:45:20 AM
Quote from: pred_alien on Sep 07, 2007, 01:44:05 AM
but remember this is aliens and preds fighting...its not about humans...its about the fighting..who gives a f**k the humans are all fodder
I do
Yeah, me too. Though the creatures are what makes the movie, the human's mortality is what makes the circumstances frightening.
I think the directors are mindless idiots if they don't develope the charachters. It's basic movie math so to speak. You can't have a good movie without drama, and you can't have drama without development of charachters and story. We haven't seen much of those because the first AvP had so little fighting between the species that this time around, they are making sure to let everybody know how much carnage to expect. I have total faith the brothers are not going to ignore such a vital part to make a good movie.
alien: i cared for all of them except ash.
aliens: i cared for all of them, except burke.
alien3: i cared for all of them, except the dude that get's chopped up by the fan.
alien ressurection: i only cared about michael wincott's, brad dourif's, ron pearlman's, the cripple's and danny hayeda's characters.
predator1: cared for all of them.
predator2: all of them.
avp: i cared for weyland, skinny funny lookin guy, and the irish guy.
reasons:
alien: ash was an evil driod. but all were good acting.
aliens: burke was a company pr**k, but all were good acting.
alien3: guy in the shaft was just singing i didnt know him, all were good acting.
alien ressurection: the 5 that i mentioned gave the best performances, the rest were idiots, including ripley's clone's one liners.
predator: the film is just a masterpiece, and every actor gave an incredible performance.
predator2: all actors gave great performances, cared about them all, except the jamaicans and the columbians, cause they were just scum, lol.
avp: the one's that i mentioned were the only ones that gave decent performances.
so, bottom line: it comes down to how convincingly the actors portray thier characters. at the same time, burke, ash, jamaicans and columbians were great performances, but they were pr**ks, so i wanted them to die. the rest of the characters i didnt mention that i didnt like, were just poor performances in my book.
90% of whether i care or not comes down to acting.
one concept that sold me in my older years to the alien movies was not only character devlopment, but beleivability. To this day alien still scares me and ive been a fan for 16 years now. Lambert sels the beleivability because she is really freakin scared, like shes scared for the audience. Aliens was the same thing with its military soldiers, but at least one character in that movie (whether it be Hudson, Hicks, Ripley etc.) had someone we could relate to at one point in our lives or another.
QuoteWhy does no one care about the human characters?
Because so far, we haven't actually seen them do anything, so we have no attachment whatsoever.
We saw them in trailers. Uh, that's it.
The Alien trailer. Did you actually care about the characters from the TRAILER?
Quote from: Alienseseses on Oct 30, 2007, 10:44:34 AM
QuoteWhy does no one care about the human characters?
Because so far, we haven't actually seen them do anything, so we have no attachment whatsoever.
We saw them in trailers. Uh, that's it.
The Alien trailer. Did you actually care about the characters from the TRAILER?
that movie came out the year i was born. didnt catch the trailer. 1977 was an awesome year. slap shot, star wars and caddyshack came out that year too. i was born in an awesome year. therefore i'm awesome.
Quote from: Alienseseses on Oct 30, 2007, 10:44:34 AM
QuoteWhy does no one care about the human characters?
Because so far, we haven't actually seen them do anything, so we have no attachment whatsoever.
We saw them in trailers. Uh, that's it.
The Alien trailer. Did you actually care about the characters from the TRAILER?
Great point. As usual, everyone has been falling into the trap of comparing details of movies they HAVE seen with movies they HAVEN'T seen. Your post has effectively highlighted the stupidity of that approach.
Quote from: PRAETORIAN MONSTER on Oct 30, 2007, 01:16:39 PM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Oct 30, 2007, 10:44:34 AM
QuoteWhy does no one care about the human characters?
Because so far, we haven't actually seen them do anything, so we have no attachment whatsoever.
We saw them in trailers. Uh, that's it.
The Alien trailer. Did you actually care about the characters from the TRAILER?
that movie came out the year i was born. didnt catch the trailer. 1977 was an awesome year. slap shot, star wars and caddyshack came out that year too. i was born in an awesome year. therefore i'm awesome.
or wait a minute, i think alien was 76. whatever, 77=best year.
Quote from: PRAETORIAN MONSTER on Oct 30, 2007, 03:46:19 PM
Quote from: PRAETORIAN MONSTER on Oct 30, 2007, 01:16:39 PM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Oct 30, 2007, 10:44:34 AM
QuoteWhy does no one care about the human characters?
Because so far, we haven't actually seen them do anything, so we have no attachment whatsoever.
We saw them in trailers. Uh, that's it.
The Alien trailer. Did you actually care about the characters from the TRAILER?
that movie came out the year i was born. didnt catch the trailer. 1977 was an awesome year. slap shot, star wars and caddyshack came out that year too. i was born in an awesome year. therefore i'm awesome.
or wait a minute, i think alien was 76. whatever, 77=best year.
Alien was made in 1979....
i care about the human characters in any movies when its human against aliens iv allways been with the humans so i care :)
I didn't want to start a new topic, so...
Who did you care about the most?
Me, I cared for Morales, Darci and Carrie the most.
Quote from: AlienatedPredator on Oct 30, 2007, 02:54:05 PM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Oct 30, 2007, 10:44:34 AM
QuoteWhy does no one care about the human characters?
Because so far, we haven't actually seen them do anything, so we have no attachment whatsoever.
We saw them in trailers. Uh, that's it.
The Alien trailer. Did you actually care about the characters from the TRAILER?
Great point. As usual, everyone has been falling into the trap of comparing details of movies they HAVE seen with movies they HAVEN'T seen. Your post has effectively highlighted the stupidity of that approach.
Agreed. Who did that?
Molly's dad.
I actually cared a little for Carrie although she only had a few lines in the movie:
"No he didn't."
"He always calls Eddie..."
"Ok, I'll see you soon."
"Darcy's picking me up, I'll be staying with her for a few days."
:P
But she generally seemed like a nice, good hearted person. It's a shame she didn't get more screen time. I liked Darcy a lot too exept for her rather stupid one liner.
I cared about Sheriff morales,Dallas,And Ricky thats all really :D :P
Who's Darcy?
Quote from: War Wager on Feb 17, 2008, 07:30:17 PM
I actually cared a little for Carrie although she only had a few lines in the movie:
"No he didn't."
"He always calls Eddie..."
"Ok, I'll see you soon."
"Darcy's picking me up, I'll be staying with her for a few days."
:P
But she generally seemed like a nice, good hearted person. It's a shame she didn't get more screen time. I liked Darcy a lot too exept for her rather stupid one liner.
I hear the bank's hiring.
Quote from: Geralt on Feb 17, 2008, 09:22:07 PM
Who's Darcy?
She's the wife of Buddy and the mother of Sam and she see's Carrie lying chestbursted in the kitchen. She's also the one to let loose "The Goverment doesn't lie to people!"
I think the writers will learn from thier mistake on AVP2 and create better scripts for human characters as well as getting better actors. ;D
I see. What I don't understand is how can someone like Darcy be anyone's favorite/most cared about character. I mean didn't that lady have only a few lines with the only memorable one of them being "The goverment doesn't lie...".
She was one of the most undeveloped and unimportant characters in the whole movie, I really can't see the appeal in her character.
no one cared about them because there was nothing to like about them, they werent fascinating or entertaining you just wanted them to die.
Mostly because poor character choices, actor choices and poor character development.
Quote from: Geralt on Feb 18, 2008, 08:55:42 AM
I see. What I don't understand is how can someone like Darcy be anyone's favorite/most cared about character. I mean didn't that lady have only a few lines with the only memorable one of them being "The goverment doesn't lie...".
She was one of the most undeveloped and unimportant characters in the whole movie, I really can't see the appeal in her character.
Because she was the most sympathetic. Her character didn't deserve what was happening. And she acted fine.
Well, all I can say is that I don't think anyone cared much about the human characters in Freddy Vs. Jason either.
Quote from: Charles Xavier on Feb 19, 2008, 01:20:25 AM
Well, all I can say is that I don't think anyone cared much about the human characters in Freddy Vs. Jason either.
They didn't even try in FVJ.
I don't care about the human characters in the AVP, i care more about the Aliens and Predators then the humans (Same with the godzilla movies).
I do care about the human characters in Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, Alien R, Predator and Predator 2 though.
Because she was the most sympathetic. Her character didn't deserve what was happening. And she acted fine.
I don't know, but for me when watching AvP-R, words like bland, boring and "one of many" come to mind when seeing the characters and especially the ones like Darcy.
The bulk of people don't care about the human characters because they are looking for wwe action with very little story development...the term "versus" film is thrown around a lot to justify this...In addition to all of this, hollywood is still shoving the vietnam era paranoia down the moviegoers throat , where characters exist only to die because of their belief that the world is totally bankrupt ...