After opening Alien: River of Pain, I found at the end an advert for Tim Lebbon's upcoming three-part epic "THE RAGE WAR". Anybody have any further details than the titles? Below is a listing of the titles from the series. Technically they're not a part of the Alien: River of Pain story so this isn't a spoiler, but for those of you who don't want to know, I am placing the titles under Spoiler alert protection:
Spoiler
Part One - Predator: Incursion
Part Two - Alien: Invasion
Part Three - Alien vs. Predator: Armageddon
Coming soon from Titan Books
Interesting.
Spoiler
Looks like a more substantial attempt at an AvP revival.
This is... interesting.
Spoiler
Incursion and Armageddon.. Hmmm..
As much as I like the Yautja concept from the old EU, I hope that they leave that concept out for a couple of these stories and just write them as Predators. Leave the Yautja concept alone, and we should be fine.
This is pretty cool.
Spoiler
The Incursion, Invasion, Armageddon has me wondering if this will be a Predators included, post-Sea of Sorrows redo of the Earth Hive story arc. I look forward to hearing more about this as it develops.
Are the Alien books going in that direction? I haven't really had any incentive to read the newer books.
Spoiler
It's unclear. Sea of Sorrows does end with WY obtaining a host with a gestating xeno queen, as well as dog-alien biotech, so it could definitely go in any number of directions.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Nov 18, 2014, 11:56:03 PM
Are the Alien books going in that direction? I haven't really had any incentive to read the newer books.
Not sure, just started reading River, but the ads at the back of the book don't give any indication if this is in fact a continuation. There is no release date either. Just, coming soon is all it says...
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 19, 2014, 12:04:31 AM
Not sure, just started reading River, but the ads at the back of the book don't give any indication if this is in fact a continuation. There is no release date either. Just, coming soon is all it says...
I would think that they could be considering the fact that Fox rebooted 25 years of previous material and continuity and is now keeping a closer eye on tying everything together with the stand alone movies.. AvP movies not withstanding.
However if these stories are stand alone and don't continue from the ALIEN Trilogy books.. Well.. It'll be the same as it was years ago.
The new books are supposed to follow Decker in a post Sea of Sorrows setting.
Spoiler
Which is essentially recreating the setting of Aliens/ Alien3, with the Company having returned and the USM gone under.
Looked up the definition of one of the sub-titles.
Spoiler
Incursion: A hostile entrance into a territory. An entering in or into as an activity or undertaking.
Are we looking at an invasion theme here with Alien and Predator? Looking at the sub-titles.. It sort of possibly suggest this but this could mean anything. Not so sure about Predators becoming invaders though.. Not keen on that.
Sure, Concrete Jungle sort of.. DID that but I did not really agree with that aspect of the story.
My thoughts on what the subtitles may indicate:
Spoiler
It's possible that WY starts experimenting with the Xenos and dog-alien tech (ala stuff we've seen in WY Report pages), and this draws the attention of the Predators. Preds hunting WY commandos armed with acid guns, xeno armor, and Xenos tamed with shockers could be fun.
As far as Invasion and Armageddon, I definitely read that as possibly hintig at the Xenos getting loose on Earth. Also, Rage War is clearly a play on "race war," which makes sense given that this seems to be a big AvP reboot.
If you ask me, this is a big reboot.. considering the fact that the Big Deletion and everything (along with everyone) from the old canon seems to be well.. replaced.
Interesting scenario you've presented though.
Perfect could you please post a scan or a picture of the advert please - and the AR novelization. I'd like to get this on the front page. :)
This whole post is a spoiler for those who don't want to see the ad in the book yet.
Spoiler
Here is the advert for Rage War.
Perfect, thanks. I've put it up on the front page.
I don't think you need to worry about spoilers for the titles.
I'm curious to know how Lebbon will write the Predators. Will he take cues from the Yautja concept which the Perry's have given the fandom that's become immensely popular or will they just be written as "Predators"? Will he be bringing in the Super Predators and if he does, will he write them as a different culture with their own name? Will we see the Predators from their POV like the Perry novels?
That's what has my attention the most. The fact that we know nothing about these particular novels is what's killing me, especially for the Predator and AvP side of things. Personally, I just hope that Lebbon doesn't do anything too far out there with the Predators. We've already had that with the Hish mythos but at the same time I hope he leaves the Yautja concept alone.
Personally I hope he uses the Hish.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 19, 2014, 05:37:22 PM
Personally I hope he uses the Hish.
As long as he leaves the Yautja concept alone, I'm fine with whatever. But I'd rather he just write them as "Predators" rather than either.. Of course I prefer the Yautja but.. I think that's been messed with enough.
But then again.. Fox seems to go with the Yautja concept, if the NECA backstories are worth something to consider. Still.. leave well enough alone, you know? :-\
I'm just joshing. I hate the Yautja and I hate the Hish (that said I liked the Hish in Flesh & Blood) . I'd rather just see them as hunters. None of this honour crap, no politics. Just the big game hunters they're supposed to be. I wouldn't mind a new interpretation.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 19, 2014, 05:55:22 PM
I'm just joshing. I hate the Yautja and I hate the Hish (that said I liked the Hish in Flesh & Blood) . I'd rather just see them as hunters. None of this honour crap, no politics. Just the big game hunters they're supposed to be. I wouldn't mind a new interpretation.
I figured you were kidding.
I wouldn't mind seeing them as Hunters but at the same time I don't want to see something which suggest that they participate in slave trading or conquering worlds, things along the lines like that. Much like you, I wouldn't so much as mind a new interpretation as well but I don't think that's really going to go that route.
If anything, something tells me that Lebbon may either write them as just "Predators", which is of course the big game hunter which you want, or.. the Yautja concept. As much as I like the Yautja concept, I hope he doesn't use it but if he does, and if he happens to use the Super Predators.. well, I hope he writes the Super Predators as a different interpretation rather than lumping them in with Yautja. But reaching a middle ground, I'm in agreement with you.. Just write them as "Predators". Just Big Game Hunters. And I think I'd be satisfied with that.
I'm interested in what connection the Predators will have with the dog aliens, if any. :-\
Btw, it's nice to have original Predator and AvP novels again. ;D
I definitely hope we get to see some cool stuff with the dog-alien tech. It makes sense that we might, since Lebbon is returning as the author.
I hope they do. River of Pain is most likely not going to be exploring them.
Quote from: SM on Nov 19, 2014, 12:27:17 AMThe new books are supposed to follow Decker in a post Sea of Sorrows setting.
Awesome, I was hoping they'd carry on. Despite the issues I had with the trilogy (well, one and two, haven't got
River of Pain yet) I enjoyed them over all. I'll look forward to these.
My copy didn't come with that advert.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 22, 2014, 12:37:40 PM
My copy didn't come with that advert.
Curious. Lebbon's website has a small non-reference to what I assume is Rage War. The bolding is mine.
http://www.timlebbon.net (http://www.timlebbon.net)
QuoteIt's been a while! And that's because although I have new book deals to announce, I still can't quite announce them yet. As soon as the ink's dry I'll reveal what they are, but I'm very excited ... an exciting deal for two thrillers, a major new tie-in project, and a trilogy that's something a little different for me. Lots of good stuff happening over the next few years, so I'll talk more about that soon.
Will the Aliens be cannon fodder, simple plot devices or an integral part of the story that poses a real threat?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 22, 2014, 12:37:40 PM
My copy didn't come with that advert.
That is curious. My book was printed and bound in the US. And yours? I wonder if there are any other regional differences...
Is Tim's prose any good?
Tim wrote Out of the Shadows. It was fun to read a Ripley adventure I think, but the premise of her engaging in the adventure was hokey. That being said, I think Tim Lebbon handled the adventure from a prose sense extremely well. There were a lot of action scenes, and you felt like you were there in the hive. The characterizations were fairly good in the novel and I found that I was able to empathize with the characters' dread throughout the course of the story. They characters felt real.
By comparison, I found that James A. Moore's writing in Sea of Sorrows never rose to the occasion in terms of character development, or even the action scenes. Christopher Golden by contrast was also able to write both very well. His action scenes were on par with Tim Lebbon, but I found that he was able to add another level to the characters in terms of emotionality, which in turn even enhances the horror. Here is an example of the emotional depth that Christopher Golden was able to reach in River of Pain:
Spoiler
There was a description of Newt when she was eating ice cream and her lips were stained as a result. This created a cute connection between her and the Marine Bracket whom she promised to take him for some ice cream. It made Newt seem so real and knowing her ultimate fate really added an emotional dimension to the book that I did not expect.
Anyway, Tim Lebbon did not have to deal with such emotional depth because the story he was writing did not delve into such themes really. So I think Tim's characterization is still just fine and not to worry about.
To tell you the truth, I used to be an A V P fan in the early '90s but ever since I saw the films, they ruined it for me. Also, ever since James Cameron pointed out how ridiculous the premise is, like Frankenstein Vs. Wolfman, I've been unable to take A V P seriously. It's just hokey to me now, so I'm not expecting anything great from this new series. That being said, if anyone can handle an AVP story well, it is Tim Lebbon. His writing style is the least of my worry when it comes to this series.
Alien is a much more elegant, high-brow, philosophically rich series to me now while everything to do with the Predators just seems sort of childish. Anyway, to each his own. I know the Predators have lots of fans, and they are still entertaining. Its just that Aliens fill me with a sense of wonder, and Predators fill me with,... meh.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 28, 2014, 07:01:49 PM
I've been unable to take A V P seriously. It's just hokey to me now
...because Cameron thinks it's silly? AvP is silly when it's executed poorly. There's nothing hokey about having two alien species in one universe. Aliens: the ultimate survival machines. Predators: the ultimate hunters. They fit together quite organically.
QuoteAlien is a much more elegant, high-brow, philosophically rich series to me now while everything to do with the Predators just seems sort of childish.
You're certainly entitled to your "Aliens elitist" opinion (to each his own as you've said) but I believe the sophistication or depth of either franchise depends mainly on the skill of the writer handling it.
You can write a "childish" Aliens story. You can write a mature, "philosophically rich" Predator story. Perhaps the Aliens franchise has a higher ceiling for "philosophical richness" but the Predator franchise doesn't have to be childish. I think a skilled writer could write a mature, stimulating Predator story.
I think
South China Sea represents a step in the right direction (I wouldn't call it philosophically rich...but it's well-written and quite mature). I hope Rage War ends up being even better
Quote from: happypred on Nov 29, 2014, 04:15:46 PMYou're certainly entitled to your "Aliens elitist" opinion (to each his own as you've said) but I believe the sophistication or depth of either franchise depends mainly on the skill of the writer handling it.
I don't think he's being elitist at all. The
Alien films (or at least the first three) are very serious movies with some deep themes. The Predator films, by comparison, are cheesy and simplistic. I find them no less entertaining, but they're markedly more low-brow in tone.
Sure, I'm sure there's lots of deep Predator EU material. But the films are many people's major impression of the series.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 29, 2014, 04:59:22 PM
The Alien films (or at least the first three) are very serious movies with some deep themes. The Predator films, by comparison, are cheesy and simplistic. I find them no less entertaining, but they're markedly more low-brow in tone.
In agreement with Hudafuk here, but this is addressed more to HappyPred.
The Alien films are considered more "serious" Sci-Fi when compared to the likes of the Predator films. I mean even Fox is going out of their way to essentially reboot/rewrite the mythology of the Alien, rather than so much the Predator mythologies (I am accounting EVERY interpretation of the Predators- Yautja and Hish). And as a Predator fan, it does pain me to say that the Alien films have some deeper metaphorical meaning to it that lots of people like.. artsy fartsy stuff.. And that's fine.
But as a Predator fan, I've had to come to gripes with the fact that Predator is nothing more than an 80s B Action flick that happened to have a few A lister stars. The reason Predator is popular is because of it's embracing of the 80s stereotype of machisimo and explosions, and of course greased up muscle men. It's a popcorn flick and that's what it has going for it.. You're not going to find the meaning of life or any of the artsy metaphor stuff that the Alien movies have in it. Look to Prometheus and Alien for that.
Someone likened Alien to a fine wine.. and Predator to a great beer. I'll take the beer, please! ;D
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 29, 2014, 04:59:22 PM
Sure, I'm sure there's lots of deep Predator EU material. But the films are many people's major impression of the series.
Heavy truth to this. The EU does have a lot of deep stuff for it as far as the Predator is concerned. Infact, the (old) EU is what had made me become even more of a Predator fan than just watching the films alone could've done for me. I actually prefer the whole Yautja interpretation and the mythology which it presented. The Perry novels showed that the Predators do have a point of view and a very deep, spiritual side to them as well and how they view the Hunt. I know a lot of people prefer what is on the films but for me I prefer the Yautja interpretation.. I'm not going to touch the Hish mythology because of the things I've heard about, and the changes which had been made-- not to mention I haven't read it.
Talk to anyone about the Predator.. Nine times out of ten, you're going to get the guy who has seen only the movies and doesn't really know much about the mythology and assumes all of the movies are connected. Chances are this same guy is the kind of guy who thinks that a Predator got killed by Danny Glover, not Michael R. Harrigan and makes a joke out of it. Point of the matter is-- the films are what enter the people's minds. Not so much the EU, assuming they haven't been made aware of it's existence.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 29, 2014, 04:59:22 PMI don't think he's being elitist at all. The Alien films (or at least the first three) are very serious movies with some deep themes. The Predator films, by comparison, are cheesy and simplistic. I find them no less entertaining, but they're markedly more low-brow in tone.
Notice how I never said the Predator films are as "high-brow" (whatever that means) as the Alien films. Thus, I don't think you're really addressing my argument, which is that the Predator series
has the potential to be "philosophically rich" if a good writer has the desire to take it in that direction.
Also, notice how that he doesn't simply say "
Predator is cheesier than
Alien". He's not comparing the films. He's comparing the franchises, i.e. the core concept of Aliens vs. the core concept of Predator. Anyway, that's how I'm interpreting this statement:
QuoteAlien is a much more elegant, high-brow, philosophically rich series to me now while everything to do with the Predators just seems sort of childish
If he's only saying "
Predator is cheesier than
Alien", I wouldn't say that's an elitist view. If he's saying "the Predator concept is childish, whereas the Alien concept is 'high-brow'". Yeah...that's pretty damned elitist
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Nov 29, 2014, 11:22:50 PMBut as a Predator fan, I've had to come to gripes with the fact that Predator is nothing more than an 80s B Action flick that happened to have a few A lister stars. The reason Predator is popular is because of it's embracing of the 80s stereotype of machisimo and explosions, and of course greased up muscle men. It's a popcorn flick and that's what it has going for it
That's like saying Alien is nothing more than a rip-off of Howard Hawks'
The Thing (1951). Alien is a great movie because of superb execution. The same could be said of
PredatorPredator is arguably the best action movie ever made. If you think an action movie with muscular actors = "low-brow", I don't have much to say to you other than "you're entitled to your opinion"
QuoteYou're not going to find the meaning of life or any of the artsy metaphor stuff that the Alien movies have in it.
You found the meaning of life in
Alien? Right...
QuoteLook to Prometheus and Alien for that.
No...I definitely won't be looking for the meaning of life in the hugely disappointing
Prometheus.
Quote from: happypred on Nov 30, 2014, 10:03:35 AM
That's like saying Alien is nothing more than a rip-off of Howard Hawks' The Thing (1951). Alien is a great movie because of superb execution. The same could be said of Predator
I never said that a particular film was a rip-off of some other work of fiction. While Predator is a film which is superbly executed, it doesn't change the fact that it embraced the stereotypes what made the action film genre such a big fad back in 1980s-- that's why the original has such incredible staying power. I like Predator a lot, I am more of a Predator fan than Alien but I'm looking at it with the rose tinted glasses off. Also Predator happened to draw inspiration or parallels from a literary classic.. Beowulf!
Infact.. Predator can be seen as a modern retelling of Beowulf! I mean Dutch and the gang couldn't take Diablo out with all their high tech weaponry and explosives.. until Dutch stripped himself of all that and took it on with nothing but primitive and makeshift weaponry and traps. In Beowulf, Grendel couldn't be killed with arrows, swords and catapults.. Beowulf killed him by his lonesome with nothing but his hands and know how. See the similarities?
Quote from: happypred on Nov 30, 2014, 10:03:35 AM
Predator is arguably the best action movie ever made. If you think an action movie with muscular actors = "low-brow", I don't have much to say to you other than "you're entitled to your opinion"
Predator is one of the best action movies ever made, but I could list a number of action movies which rival or are simply better than Predator. Also I never once said that Predator was low brow, where the hell are you getting that idea from? What I am saying is that the first movie, was a product of it's time-- a 1980s action movie with big muscular guys who deliver memorable one liners and awesome explosions. 80s action movies are my kind of thing, and I love that shit. Mm'kay? Pop in a DVD Blu-ray of Predator, Robocop, The Terminator, First Blood.. I will be happy with that shit.
Quote from: happypred on Nov 30, 2014, 10:03:35 AM
You found the meaning of life in Alien? Right...
I was sarcastically referring to the metaphorical artsy stuff which I was referring to in earlier parts of my previous post. You know the deeper themes which Hudafuk mentioned?
Quote from: happypred on Nov 30, 2014, 10:03:35 AM
No...I definitely won't be looking for the meaning of life in the hugely disappointing Prometheus.
Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh! I'll have to admit, while I immensely liked the movie when it first came out.. I've started to like it less and less.
Quote from: happypred on Nov 30, 2014, 10:03:35 AMPredator is arguably the best action movie ever made. If you think an action movie with muscular actors = "low-brow", I don't have much to say to you other than "you're entitled to your opinion"
Predator is low-brow. It's got no plot to speak of, corny dialogue, cheesy acting and is essentially a pastiche of films Arnie/Stallone et al. had made several times before.
That's not to say it isn't one of the best action movies ever made - I actually think it is - but it's not sophisticated at all.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 30, 2014, 01:44:53 PM
Predator is low-brow. It's got no plot to speak of, corny dialogue, cheesy acting and is essentially a pastiche of films Arnie/Stallone et al. had made several times before.
I have to disagree with that sentiment. Especially the no plot argument. Clearly it does have a plot. Albeit a simple one but it does have one. It's a spin on The Most Dangerous Game.
I think that the Predator series is the most versatile of the franchises in terms of story telling. Alien has a habit of being the same 3 or so stories every time. Predator is able to be any time, any story and any character without the restrictions of the Alien universe. Of course, that also has the potential to get too same-y but...that's just my stance.
I think the Alien series has the potential to be equally versatile, it just never happens because COLONIL MARIENS RULE.
That unused idea for a third film of hunting a Xenomorph in a Blade Runner metropolis, for example, could've been great.
There was a really insane Rutger Hauer movie that did just that. I can't remember what it was called, but I do remember that the it had xeno (well, demonic entity) and the sidekick guy was called "Dick Derken" -- and he started off all nerdy then went into a "we need bigger guns" frenzy. It was set in Future London - I think in the Underground stations that were no longer in use... it was years ago when I saw it (I saw it, goddamn it, I saw it). Split Second... Point Blank - it was called something like that, anyway.
As for Predator being low brow. With the benefit of hindsight, maybe. Not at the time - the reveal was awesome, it was a really clever idea - and nothing like or anything to do with Alien. No one even thought to put to the two together until that throwaway nod in the sequel started an entire industry.
Whoever had he idea -- it was a great one. (I bet many of you know the history more than me).
That said, Alien movies are more cerebral - but that doesn't make (the first) Predator daft. Also, its a beautifully constructed film - all the beats are there and there's some great acting. I know that its easy to make fun of these 80s films now, but there are some great moments -- check at Dillon and the General looking at each other when Dutch's attention is on the map. They KNOW they're setting him up and they FEEL shit about it. And, when Arnie says to Dillon that he used to be someone he could trust - there's genuine regret and hurt in the performance.
The Aliens vs Predator comic series came out before Predator 2 the movie. The alien head in predator 2 was a nod to the comics...
I wasn't trying to belittle Predator when I said it was low-brow... Low-brow can be fun as all hell. And I fully agree it's one of the classic action movies (in fact, I think the shootout at the beginning is a contender for the best ever put on film, it's incredible). I just don't think those films have the elegance of the first three Alien films. They were making a fun film, rather than a gripping film.
Also, I can't help but wonder if people would still care all that much if we got the original Van Damme Predator in 1987... Winston's design did a lot for that movie.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Dec 01, 2014, 01:26:18 PM
The Aliens vs Predator comic series came out before Predator 2 the movie. The alien head in predator 2 was a nod to the comics...
No way? Really! I'm shocked - I remember being blown away seeing the alien head in the movie and I had the first comic book (where Dutch's brother was the main guy)... I'm not disputing you're right, I'm sure you are, but I don't remember seeing the comics before the movie - then again, getting hold of imports was a much more specialised and labourious business than it is nowadays, so it must have been that they were available and I just didn't know they were there.
Hmmm, just to be sure, I thought I'd double check. The AVP craze started in Dark Horse Presents #34 which featured an Aliens story where the Alien Queen was on a predator ship. This was November 01, 1989. It was an Aliens story but it was the first chapter in the first Aliens Vs. Predator series.
https://www.darkhorse.com/Comics/91-166/Dark-Horse-Presents-34 (https://www.darkhorse.com/Comics/91-166/Dark-Horse-Presents-34)
The story was continued in Dark Horse Presents #35 in December 1989. This was a Predator story, but if you look closely, you can see an Alien head mounted onto one of the Predator character's chest armor.
https://www.darkhorse.com/Comics/91-167/Dark-Horse-Presents-35 (https://www.darkhorse.com/Comics/91-167/Dark-Horse-Presents-35)
The first actual Alien Vs. Predator confrontation took place in Dark Horse Comics Presents #36 which was the culmination of the 3-part run in Dark Horse Presents. This issue came out in February 1990.
https://www.darkhorse.com/Comics/91-168/Dark-Horse-Presents-36 (https://www.darkhorse.com/Comics/91-168/Dark-Horse-Presents-36)
(These 3 Dark Horse tales were eventually reprinted in Aliens Vs. Predator # 0 on July 01, 1990, and of course subsequently in the Aliens Vs. Predator TPB)
https://www.darkhorse.com/Comics/91-043/Aliens-vs-Predator-0-of-4 (https://www.darkhorse.com/Comics/91-043/Aliens-vs-Predator-0-of-4)
Man, that seems so long ago. Nobody even really heard of Nirvana or Kurt Cobain back then. No Oasis, no Spice Girls, no Brittney Spears, no Alien 3.
But the official first issue of Aliens Vs. Predator came out on June 1 1990 (ahead of #0)
https://www.darkhorse.com/Comics/91-044/Aliens-vs-Predator-1-of-4 (https://www.darkhorse.com/Comics/91-044/Aliens-vs-Predator-1-of-4)
According to IMDB, Predator 2 premiered in Westwood, California, on November 19, 1990. So, the series definitely started in the comics.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0100403/releaseinfo?ref_=tt_ov_inf+ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0100403/releaseinfo?ref_=tt_ov_inf+)
It was apparent that the authors at Dark Horse were trying to create a story with loftier goals than the Predator movies on their own, but although the AVP stories in the comics were great, I just don't think that their quality was quarried through into the films. There can be no loftier questions in life than where do we come from?, or what is our purpose? For better or for worse, the Alien series tries to tackle these questions. Although, one can't expect to find the meaning of life in Hollywood horror / sci-fi, the speculative nature of the Aliens series makes it more fun. Every mystery solved, unearths another mystery. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I love the Predator films too, but its just a different kettle of fish. I think RakaiThwei said it best, Alien is like a fine wine, and Predator is like a great beer. It's ok like this. Beer's great too...
Thanks for double checking, as I say I had no argument with your dates, but the film was definitely the first cross-over I saw.
You're right though, the ideas were never really translated across that well (I say that as a huge fan of the first AvP movie), but I guess it is easier to do things in a series of comics than it is on film.
Which is why we should have an AvP verse tv show! Beer and wine. At the same time. It'd be great while it lasted, then we'd all be sick with a hangover of diminishing returns!
They haven't done good AvP films because they've left behind all the core ideas that made AvP appealing, instead going for the famous aspect that just didn't translate onto screen - the team-up. IMHO anyway.
Like, Russ, I happen to be a fan of the AvP movies (more so the first one anyway).. But I think now looking back at it, the first one was definitely better than the sequel. I would really like to see that storyline which the first movie presented continued in someway or another as a separate continuity, rather than just buried and conveniently forgotten despite Fox's seemingly attempt to do so.
At the same time, I do think that we should've gotten the AvP movie which we all wanted and I mean a movie set either in the future in a futuristic megalopolis or a colonized world. But we didn't get that. You could point the finger at either John Davis or Fox for setting the film on Earth but I think that Anderson sincerely wanted to deliver something fans could appreciate.. but fate seemed to have deem otherwise. I can't and won't speak for the Brothers Strause.. as I now acknowledge that Requiem was mean spirited.
And I agree with Russ, I'd love to see an AvP universe themed series but in regards to the diminishing returns.. I think we're at that point already. I mean why the rebooting and everything else?
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Dec 02, 2014, 04:57:01 PMAt the same time, I do think that we should've gotten the AvP movie which we all wanted and I mean a movie set either in the future in a futuristic megalopolis or a colonized world. But we didn't get that. You could point the finger at either John Davis or Fox for setting the film on Earth but I think that Anderson sincerely wanted to deliver something fans could appreciate.. but fate seemed to have deem otherwise. I can't and won't speak for the Brothers Strause.. as I now acknowledge that Requiem was mean spirited.
Wasn't it just budget that made them set it in the present? Future apparently = expensive (although trying telling
Alien(
s) that).
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Dec 04, 2014, 08:33:45 AM
Wasn't it just budget that made them set it in the present? Future apparently = expensive (although trying telling Alien(s) that).
I've heard various claims such as the budget being the main reason (although building a futuristic set in Prague is feasible, I'm not too sure on the details on such cost to build a set as such back in 2004-- and even then.. it could green screened) and another claim is that I've heard it was decisions made by either Davis or Anderson.
There were several reasons floated around. I've heard budget but I also heard it was to connect it more to the Predator franchise - which made some sense since Davis is the producer of that license.
Davis thought Earth would make it scarier.
From what I know (and have ascertained using my non-existent powers of deduction) Anderson, as Raka says above, really did want to deliver something that the fans would love. I'm not so cynical as to believe that he's just saying "I'm a huge fan of Aliens and Predator" because he's making an AvP movie (look at Event Horizon – it could be set in the alien-verse). However, his hallmark is that he makes good looking, extremely profitable movies for a low budget.
I'm sure that his pitch and "vision" had Colonial Marines charging around a Predator pyramid fighting an alien infestation or something like that, but it seems to me that Fox really wanted to hedge its bets on this (and the next) movie. I guess you can't level that accusation at them for "Prometheus" though, I'm sure that was quite expensive – if not as entertaining as AvP (in my opinion).
But yes, I am sure that AvP was earth-bound because of the budget, and we know that AvP:R was under stringent budgetary conditions (the Bros definitely wanted space and Fox said "no.").
As for Davis saying he thought it'd be scarier on earth, well yes he did say that, but would it be cynical to suggest that he said that because of the budgetary constraints or because he thought the Antarctic with explorers and archaeologists would be scarier than a space hulk / pyramid with colonial marines?
Don't worry – Shane Black will ensure that this franchise isn't dead... because the new Predator movie will be good and will make money. Whether the next AvP is any good ... we don't know, but I hope that they really "go for it" in terms of budget.
Or give us the TV show in the 'verse. I'd really love that.
Quote from: Russ on Dec 04, 2014, 11:32:07 AMDon't worry – Shane Black will ensure that this franchise isn't dead... because the new Predator movie will be good and will make money.
I really hope this is the case. Black is one of my favourite Hollywood players. His 80s/90s scripts were absolute dynamite (I watched
The Long Kiss Goodnight just a few days ago - probably my favourite ever Samuel L. Jackson role), and I hope he can bring a little of that fizz to the new film (even if he isn't writing the whole thing).
Quote from: Russ on Dec 04, 2014, 11:32:07 AM
Whether the next AvP is any good ... we don't know, but I hope that they really "go for it" in terms of budget.
Or give us the TV show in the 'verse. I'd really love that.
I still think there's plenty of potential to do it right. I reckon we're not far off seeing a new one soon either. Everything feels very orientated around reinvigorating the franchises at the minute. I might be reading too into it but that's my impression.
The only thing going for me right now is Shane's movie. What scares me is that I don't know what his ideas are, but I just hope that they are something which I happen to agree with. After PREDATORS, for me anyway and probably only me-- things have been quite downhill for me. And with Fox's seemingly attempt to bury the AvP movies (and seemingly pretending they don't exist as I have not seen any 10th anniversary DVD or Blu-ray re-releases) and probably a bulk of the old EU to accommodate Prometheus but also incorporating elements of PREDATORS, I sort of gave up on the EU.
So Shane's movie is really all I have going at this point, and he's teamed up with another film maker who's films I happened to like in order to write the script.. And with Shane having done re-writes to the original Predator, I shouldn't be worried.. but at the same time I'm just a little wary after PREDATORS.
I wonder when Titan will officially announce Rage War and give us some general information. Hopefully before New Years.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Dec 04, 2014, 04:16:40 PM
The only thing going for me right now is Shane's movie. What scares me is that I don't know what his ideas are, but I just hope that they are something which I happen to agree with. After PREDATORS, for me anyway and probably only me-- things have been quite downhill for me. And with Fox's seemingly attempt to bury the AvP movies (and seemingly pretending they don't exist as I have not seen any 10th anniversary DVD or Blu-ray re-releases) and probably a bulk of the old EU to accommodate Prometheus but also incorporating elements of PREDATORS, I sort of gave up on the EU.
So Shane's movie is really all I have going at this point, and he's teamed up with another film maker who's films I happened to like in order to write the script.. And with Shane having done re-writes to the original Predator, I shouldn't be worried.. but at the same time I'm just a little wary after PREDATORS.
What do you mean? Do you not like this new EU or something? This is probably the best time for
Alien,
Predator,
AVP, and
Prometheus fans. We have gotten three solid
Alien novels. We have a great 17-issue comic reboot event with
Fire and Stone. We also have probably one of the best Alien games to ever be released in the form of
Alien Isolation. Reviews have been overall positive for all three of these media tie-ins. While
Prometheus did have its flaws, I generally like the ideas that it introduced. I think that Dark Horse has used these ideas very well from the film, and they have made a very gripping and interesting tale. Even though
AVP Fire and Stone has gotten a very mixed reception, it is still solid, and it has resurrected the concept by including it with
Prometheus. Also, I have disagree about
Predators. It did a very solid job of expanding the Predator mythology while at the same time bringing the series back to what made the first film great in the first place.
Quote from: DarthJoker45 on Dec 04, 2014, 09:12:20 PM
What do you mean? Do you not like this new EU or something?
I'm saying that I'm not interested in the new EU. Now I haven't said that I hated it or anything, just that I am not interested in the comics or the novels which are being put out. And sure there are reviews out there but they're not enough to get me hooked, line and reeled in. For me, the old stuff is where it is.
Quote from: DarthJoker45 on Dec 04, 2014, 09:12:20 PM
While Prometheus did have its flaws, I generally like the ideas that it introduced. I think that Dark Horse has used these ideas very well from the film, and they have made a very gripping and interesting tale.
I liked Prometheus when it came out in theatres, I liked the movie a lot but now.. I just don't seem to like it as much as I did two years ago but I still like it. What just irks me a bit is how they're accommodating EVERYTHING for Prometheus. I can understand that for Alien, but Predator? As a Predator/AvP fan.. I'd rather they left Predator out of that.
I'm just hoping that Lebbon doesn't do anything extremely radical and different with the Predators, like Shirely did with the Hish with his Predator series. But since we have the Yautja and Hish interpretations, I suppose a third wouldn't hurt.. of course he could just write the as Predators, just amoral Hunters who are out for killing for thrills as Hicks and I discussed.
Of course, if he wants to use the normal and Super Predators, I wouldn't mind if he used the Yautja concept for the normal Predators, but writes the Super Predators as Hish.. But I also wouldn't mind it if he didn't use either or.
Quote from: DarthJoker45 on Dec 04, 2014, 09:12:20 PM
Also, I have disagree about Predators. It did a very solid job of expanding the Predator mythology while at the same time bringing the series back to what made the first film great in the first place.
We'll have to agree to disagree there. I've stated many times on why I did not like PREDATORS, so I'll give you the short and skinny. I didn't like the preserve planet as I felt it eschewed what the first movie established of these hunters going from world to world as part of a challenging thrill, nor did I like the Super Predators as I felt they devalued the original creature. It felt like a love letter to the first, but also a rehashing of the first. Some scenes were shot for shot remakes.
I don't think I wouldn't have minded the movie had it been marketed and labeled as a reboot than a sequel. Supposedly from what I heard, it was supposed to be a reboot but someone changed their minds.
QuoteDrawing to the end of Predator: INCURSION, the first of the Rage War Trilogy for Titan. It's been fun! I now have to go and destroy a spaceship.
Tim Lebbon just posted this on Facebook.
Suspects a release at the end of 2015. Is checking.
QuoteI liked Prometheus when it came out in theatres, I liked the movie a lot but now.. I just don't seem to like it as much as I did two years ago but I still like it. What just irks me a bit is how they're accommodating EVERYTHING for Prometheus. I can understand that for Alien, but Predator? As a Predator/AvP fan.. I'd rather they left Predator out of that.
Now that the AVP: Fire and Stone series has finished up I can see what you mean. I respect Prometheus's story by itself but I still don't think it needs to be the Alien franchise's backyard; this is especially true considering that the series is aimed more toward the casual audience than the die-hard Alien fans.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 15, 2015, 03:08:32 AM
Now that the AVP: Fire and Stone series has finished up I can see what you mean. I respect Prometheus's story by itself but I still don't think it needs to be the Alien franchise's backyard; this is especially true considering that the series is aimed more toward the casual audience than the die-hard Alien fans.
Are you at that point where you just don't care what they do with the franchises anymore? I mean I used to be passionate about Alien-Predator but with the new releases coming on.. I'm just not feeling it anymore.
I'm ever the optimist, I still have some faith left in the series, if not the fandom. Prometheus might be the exception to that though. :-\
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 15, 2015, 03:42:44 AM
I'm ever the optimist, I still have some faith left in the series, if not the fandom. Prometheus might be the exception to that though. :-\
The only thing left I have faith in is Shane's movie. After PREDATORS, I just was pushed away from it.. And with the EU pretty much being rebooted, introducing comics to accommodate Prometheus (which Predator and AvP should have nothing to do with) while also keeping Roddy's movie in mind.. and the fact we've a crossover with Archie.. I'm really not feeling the new stuff.
All I have left is Shane's movie to look forward to, and the NECA Toys. I just hope Shane's movie doesn't end up leaving a sour taste in my mouth.
I'm sure he'll do a good job. I just wonder what the balls vs cost ratio is in Fox at the moment - I wonder if it'll be PG-13 or 15 (I think Predators was 15?). We all hope that it'll be a grown up movie, but that's my one concern.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 14, 2015, 09:52:04 AM
QuoteDrawing to the end of Predator: INCURSION, the first of the Rage War Trilogy for Titan. It's been fun! I now have to go and destroy a spaceship.
Tim Lebbon just posted this on Facebook.
Suspects a release at the end of 2015. Is checking.
I can't wait to hear more about this new trilogy. Assuming it does follow on from Sea of Sorrows, it will be cool to see what Lebbon does with the far future of the franchise.
I hope Lebbon's predators are as good as Vandermeer's
How well does he handle xenomorphs?
Quote from: happypred on Jan 16, 2015, 02:55:00 AM
I hope Lebbon's predators are as good as Vandermeer's
I just hope he doesn't introduce something lame like.. Predators partaking in a slave-trade, Predators following a monarch society when they are clan based with ruling heads of their own which the films suggest, or Predators being creations of Engineers (which thankfully so far, FaS has left alone to be unanswered).
I strongly suspect that Rage War will have even less Prometheus influence than the current Titan trilogy. I think the dog-alien aspect will be at the forefront.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jan 16, 2015, 04:17:52 AM
I strongly suspect that Rage War will have even less Prometheus influence than the current Titan trilogy. I think the dog-alien aspect will be at the forefront.
I would like for the Rage War to get away from Prometheus. Especially considering that it all leads up to an AvP title.
I may not have read Fire and Stone, but I think a lot of people out there are saying that generally speaking.. AvP and Prometheus just do not mix.
Hilarious if "Rage War" ends up making a bunch of people rage quit the franchise
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jan 16, 2015, 04:17:52 AM
I strongly suspect that Rage War will have even less Prometheus influence than the current Titan trilogy. I think the dog-alien aspect will be at the forefront.
I really hope so. I really want to see them explored. It really winds me up when elements like this get introduced and never explored.
Quote from: happypred on Jan 16, 2015, 02:55:00 AM
I hope Lebbon's predators are as good as Vandermeer's
As do I. The best representation of the Predators IMHO.
Quote
How well does he handle xenomorphs?
Very well. They were very intelligent - very raptor-ish in their portrayal.
I'm quite confident in Tim.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Jan 16, 2015, 04:58:45 AM
I may not have read Fire and Stone, but I think a lot of people out there are saying that generally speaking.. AvP and Prometheus just do not mix.
It's not that it doesn't mix - they're not really trying to. It's just not an AvP story, despite the title.
Quote from: happypred on Jan 16, 2015, 09:07:19 AM
Hilarious if "Rage War" ends up making a bunch of people rage quit the franchise
I am close to that. I just hope Shane's movie can reverse that.
From yesterday:
QuoteLove getting towards the end of writing a novel, because I'm always excited to find out what happens! 3,500 words today on Predator: Incursion, and I'll be typing THE END tomorrow.
Quote'THE END'. Time for a run.
Nice. I wonder when Titan will release some kind of official announcement. Looking forward to seeing what Lebbon does with the trilogy. I like that he's writing the whole thing.
I wonder if the reprint of Resurrection might give a release date in the inevitable preview at the back.
Are there tentative release dates?
Not that I know of. The ad in the last novel just said "coming soon".
As I said, the reprint of Resurrection due in a couple of months might have more info.
Last I asked Tim he said end of the year.
Via Tim Lebbon's Twitter:
https://twitter.com/timlebbon/status/562310802443882496 (https://twitter.com/timlebbon/status/562310802443882496)
Quote@timlebbon: PREDATOR-INCURSION novel delivered! #predator @TitanBooks
Been a loooooong time since I've read any of these novels (read the Perry trilogy, DNA War, and AVP Prey a while back, and that's it).
The concept of this "trilogy" has me somewhat intrigued, though. Not sure if I see myself reading it, but I'd be curious to know what it's about.
I hope this doesn't turn out to be like Forever Midnight
I don't want it to feature any culture for the Predators. I want something akin to South China Sea.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 04, 2015, 10:33:23 AM
I don't want it to feature any culture for the Predators. I want something akin to South China Sea.
This. As much as I love the Yautja aspect, I'd really rather they leave it alone so they don't muck it up.. like they did with the Hish.
I'm fine with predator culture...if it's done well. I understand that some fans want the franchise to retain a shroud of mystery around the predators...but if this franchise is ever to grow, I believe addressing predator culture is a must. It doesn't have to be too in-depth...just well-done and tantalising
Quote from: happypred on Feb 05, 2015, 03:56:07 AM
I believe addressing predator culture is a must.
The thing is Predator culture has been addressed. Covered over quite fair deal in the original Alien vs. Predator novels with the Yautja concept. We already know what their society is like, similar to Native American tribes and that they have a spiritual aspect to them and view the hunt as a large part of their culture. And if you accept the Yautja concept, and by a farther extention-- the NECA aspects of the Yautja concept (which.. is askewed in many ways) then why address Predator culture when it's already been expanded upon-- assuming of course they go with the Yautja concept?
All of that above of course assuming people take the Yautja concept as a legitimate thing.. which a lot of people on this forum, don't seem to really do.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 04, 2015, 11:51:41 PM
This. As much as I love the Yautja aspect, I'd really rather they leave it alone so they don't muck it up.. like they did with the Hish.
I remember enjoying the more reasonable Flesh and Blood version of the Hish. I think I might give that book a re-read soon - and the book actually.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 05, 2015, 08:44:16 AM
I remember enjoying the more reasonable Flesh and Blood version of the Hish. I think I might give that book a re-read soon - and the book actually.
I have had certain problems with the Hish and I didn't even read the books but rather asked around and listened to what fans had told me. Based on what I've been told, I highly doubt I would've liked them then and doubt I would've liked it now.
I didn't like the idea that they were more conquerors and slavers more than Hunters, didn't really like how they had made them a hermaphrodite species, and there were other ideas which were dumb.. Like.. Predator Kids playing "Mortal Kombat" with two mind controlled humans and forcing them to kill each other as entertainment, or Predator parents essentially setting their newborns on fire to see which ones lived who were worthy to live.
I will admit, it would've been... interesting.. I think that's the appropriate word (not saying good or bad) had Shirley continued with another book and retconned the Hish being a cousin species to the Yautja. That would've made a certain film entry in the Predator franchise easier for me to swallow (would've given fans room to say the mainstream Predators were the Yautja and the Super Predators were the Hish) but that's neither here nor there now.
Having that said Hicks, again I agree with you in that I don't want to see a portrayal of a culture here. Predator culture's been explored enough once in a span of three books. And the other two books could be looked at as an AU (I recall Perry saying they were an AU and Shirley suggesting they weren't in the same universe).
Predator culture's been explored enough.. Leave it alone.
It was basically Forever Midnight that did all that. The Flesh and Blood interpretation was more in line with my view of the Predators in that it was all about the hunt and the thrill of the hunt - none of all that honor angle that I dislike so much in the Yautja. It had none of - that I can remember - those ridiculous ideas from Forever Midnight other than they were still called Hish.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 05, 2015, 09:31:33 AM
It was basically Forever Midnight that did all that. The Flesh and Blood interpretation was more in line with my view of the Predators in that it was all about the hunt and the thrill of the hunt - none of all that honor angle that I dislike so much in the Yautja. It had none of - that I can remember - those ridiculous ideas from Forever Midnight other than they were still called Hish.
I liked the Yautja concept because of the whole honor angle and I like the idea of heroic monsters. Go ahead, point and laugh at me but I grew up with a lot of anti-heroes and I think what started it was Terminator 2: Judgement Day where the Terminator was turned into a good guy. With the case of the Yautja, they were still presented as amoral Hunters who only hunted to prove themselves but they were presented as more than just blood thirsty monsters (which a lot gore hounds here seem to like) but they also had a spiritual culture and varying view points. They had a martial way of life but a code of ethics which most abided by, some abiding more tightly than others.
Now a book I have been meaning to read is of course South China Sea. I've heard a lot of good things about that book which found middle ground which Predator and Yautja fans alike seemed to really enjoy. It downplays the honor concept but it doesn't make the Predator just another Jason Voorhees archetype monster antagonist either.
Where as I dislike the honorable Yautja as it served to humanize them and make them more relate-able to readers as they did indeed serve as anti-heroes. It doesn't sit well with me. There is nothing honorable about the way they are portrayed in the films - cloaking so the prey can't see you, using advanced long range weaponry, the ability to see in multiple spectrums, etc. Removing their honor doesn't make them Jason Vorhees because they never had honor in the first place and people still love Predator.
South China Sea made them badass hunters again. It was about the challenge. I don't remember there being anything in there about honor. But I digress and don't intend to turn this into a Yautja argument.
The Yautja concept is often accused of being "space samurai"-ish
...but let's put this way, historical samurai were often complete douche-bags, not noble, honourable dudes. There were noble honourable samurai...but they arguably weren't the norm.
In Prey, Dachande seems like an honourable warrior, but it's almost like he's the exception. He even admits to himself that he wouldn't have hesitated to kill Machiko had this been a human hunt. Dachande's students are defintely "thrill of the hunt" types. They go around killing whatever they encounter, including a family of three and the pet pooch (the kid gets away but they try to kill him)
I think Perry's Yautja are a bit more complex than most people care to admit
The thing is with the Yautja concept, so far it seems to be Fox's status quo on what the Predators are. And if you take NECA's backstories as something serious considering that some sources say they are written by Fox's inhouse writers (I don't take them as canon as these stories are for.. you know, toys) then this further cements that the Yautja concept is here to the status quo, whether folks like it or not. Space Samurai or not.
Also, it has been a long time since I've read Prey.. Been since.. middle school. Oh man, those were good times and that book saved my ass from being held back. So that book means quite a lot to me but.. alas... like with all my other stuff, it's in storage and I won't see it for a long ass time.
My point is simply this:
Broken Tusk isn't representative of all Yautja
Tichinde and many other Yautja students are thrill-seeking arseholes. People seem to ignore that when the Yautja concept
My list of books to read (and re-read) continually grows. I don't recall that being the case - my understanding was it was the younger Predator (can't recall his name) who took over the hunt wasn't representative of all Yautja. But I can't really talk about that accurately as you've now got me questioning my memory and I'll re-read Prey again after I've finished reading my current book.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/literature/reviews/aliens-vs-predator-prey/ (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/literature/reviews/aliens-vs-predator-prey/)
Just checking back and looking over my review from 2013 and here's what I'd got.
I remember writing a review of Prey too.. It was a pretty lengthy one, and a much better one than my review of Batman and Superman vs Alien and Predator. It's somewhere lost in the literature threads.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 05, 2015, 10:33:50 AMmy understanding was it was the younger Predator (can't recall his name) who took over the hunt wasn't representative of all Yautja
To be fair, I doubt either Dachande or Tichinde (the Yautja novice you're referring to) are representative of all Yautja. The question is...do the majority of Yautja resemble Dachande or Tichinde more?
I don't think we're able to answer that question based on
Prey. What
Prey does tell us is that the Yautja have some sort of code of conduct akin to an honour system. At least one individual (Broken Tusk) sincerely adheres to it. Others only follow it out of social pressure. Once that pressure is gone, they do whatever they like.
Jungle Hunter could easily fit within this framework. He's an individual like Tichinde. He's more of a sadistic pleasure-seeker than a "noble savage" who hunts for honour. If an individual like Tichinde goes too far
and gets caught, he might be labelled a Bad Blood. That's how I think about it.
In Hunter's Planet, there was Bakuub who was one of the more honorable Hunter's and I think he was either an Unblooded or a Young Blood. Or probably a Blooded but I can't remember what rank he was. I do remember that he had expressed displeasure when Shorty took over the clan from when the rightful clan leader was killed by a shotgun wielding Xenomorph (What?) and he had moments where he had expressed honorable/heroic moments. There was a Bisor which was about to be killed by a Xenomorph, and he saves the creature by lancing his spear through the Xenomorph. Then Bakuub takes over the clan when Machiko kills Shorty and winds up working with her to take down Livermore Evanston's XenoBorgs.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 06, 2015, 03:58:34 AM
In Hunter's Planet, there was Bakuub who was one of the more honorable Hunter's and I think he was either an Unblooded or a Young Blood. Or probably a Blooded but I can't remember what rank he was.
He was Blooded, most likely a veteran as after Shorty is killed by Attila, Bakuub becomes Leader
QuoteI do remember that he had expressed displeasure when Shorty took over the clan from when the rightful clan leader was killed by a shotgun wielding Xenomorph (What?)
More like a cybernetic xenomorph wielding an assault cannon/large pulse rifle
Quoteand he had moments where he had expressed honorable/heroic moments. There was a Bisor which was about to be killed by a Xenomorph, and he saves the creature by lancing his spear through the Xenomorph.
I'm pretty sure Bakuub would've savagely killed humans had he been on a "ooman" hunt. He's noble in the sense that he cares about preserving the supremacy of his clan and his people. Hunting "oomans" is a pleasurable distraction. Eliminating the cybernetic xenos is more important than personal glory or entertainment.
Minus the thread of the cyber-xenos, Bakuub would've had no qualms about slaughtering armed humans.
I'm not arguing that Bakuub wouldn't have hunted humans, where are you getting that I am?
I'm just saying that it wasn't just Dachande who was seen as the more honorable type. If anything, I would say that it's the Unblooded to Blooded ranking warriors who are the brash assholes where as the more experienced and higher ranking warriors are more patient and recognizing of the talents and skills of other races. They're more lenient than the lower ranking warriors but they've got no qualms about hunting other humans.
It's been since middle school since I read Hunter's Planet, so you have to forgive me if I don't get all my details right.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 06, 2015, 06:44:14 AM
I'm not arguing that Bakuub wouldn't have hunted humans, where are you getting that I am?
I'm sharing my opinion, not necessarily criticising yours
QuoteI'm just saying that it wasn't just Dachande who was seen as the more honorable type.
I'm not sure if we know enough about Bakuub to say with certainty how much he resembles or doesn't resemble Dachande. Relative to Shorty, Bakuub is less selfish and insecure
QuoteIf anything, I would say that it's the Unblooded to Blooded ranking warriors who are the brash assholes where as the more experienced and higher ranking warriors are more patient and recognizing of the talents and skills of other races. They're more lenient than the lower ranking warriors but they've got no qualms about hunting other humans.
Maybe...but Blooded is a very broad class. It would include higher ranking predators. It would also include predators who were Blooded last week.
We haven't seen that many "higher ranking" predators interacting with humans. I suppose the Elders in P2 and AvP support your point. In the comics, other than Dachande, I can only think of Blue (the predator in Duel). The marine helps him kill the predalien and I don't think Blue subsequently kills the marine (though it is left ambiguous).
I'm not really sure whether Blue would be considered an older warrior. He's originally a student of Top Knot. He seems to be more like Dark in AvP 2010. A young predator who pulls off some amazing feats whose stock quickly rises.
I'm not sure Top Knot would be respectful of humans. He seems to be a bit of a bully...what Tichinde would've become had he survived to rise to the rank of Leader.
Quote from: happypred on Feb 06, 2015, 08:18:27 AM
I'm sharing my opinion, not necessarily criticising yours
Fair enough!
Quote from: happypred on Feb 06, 2015, 08:18:27 AM
I'm not sure if we know enough about Bakuub to say with certainty how much he resembles or doesn't resemble Dachande. Relative to Shorty, Bakuub is less selfish and insecure
It has been years since I have read Hunter's Planet and if I had to say when I last read it was somewhere between 2001 and 2002. So it's been a very long time since I've read it and my memory of it is very rusty but I do remember some of the characters and the situation which was gong on in the comic. To me and this is based on memory, so I could be wrong, but Bakuub seemed to be one of the Hunters who had adhered to the honor code. Maybe not necessarily as tightly as Dachande but he most certainly didn't agreed with Shorty's approach to leading and he just let everything played out. When Shorty was killed by Machiko, it was then he took on the role of leader. Thinking about it now.. he didn't have much interaction with humans and I can barely remember his interactions with other Yautja.
Quote from: happypred on Feb 06, 2015, 08:18:27 AM
Maybe...but Blooded is a very broad class. It would include higher ranking predators. It would also include predators who were Blooded last week.
Mmmnnnneeeeeeegggggh... For it including higher ranking Predators? Yes and no. Yes in the fact that higher ranking Predators are still blooded in that aspect is true and no in the fact that higher ranking Predators such as Warriors and Honoreds, more or less are seen as Hunters who earned their place out from the lower ranks and move high on up to get the better perks-- such as better weaponry and sleeping quarters, and of course the right to breed. Of course the higher ranking Hunters are still not as lenient as Elders and Ancients, if anything.. they could be bigger assholes than the lower ranking ones.
Quote from: happypred on Feb 06, 2015, 08:18:27 AM
We haven't seen that many "higher ranking" predators interacting with humans. I suppose the Elders in P2 and AvP support your point. In the comics, other than Dachande, I can only think of Blue (the predator in Duel). The marine helps him kill the predalien and I don't think Blue subsequently kills the marine (though it is left ambiguous).
I will say that I do agree with you that we haven't seen many ranking Predators such as "Warriors" and "Honoreds" interacting with humans. Except for of course Greyback in Predator 2... and if you consider both AvP's as a legitimate continuation of the first two Predator movies and a precursor to the Alien films (leaving this as an option like how some DBZ fans let others consider GT as a legit continuation)-- then the Ancient from Alien vs Predator could support my point.
I am sure that there were others in the old EU material. You mention Blue, whose official name from what I remember (I have the comic in front of me, courtesy of Yancy Street Comics in Oldsmar, FL) is Light Stepper. In the case of Light Stepper, he didn't do it out of the kindness of his heart (of course not, Predators NEVER do anything like that) but rather practicality in order to ensure survival when he teamed up with Glass to kill the PredAlien.
And then there was Dragon Predator in Eternal.. who had took an unconscious McBride (that was her surname) out of the sewer and left her on the street after she feinted from her whole ordeal with the Xenomorph.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 06, 2015, 08:37:00 AM
Mmmnnnneeeeeeegggggh... For it including higher ranking Predators? Yes and no.
In Prey and Hunter's Planet, there are Unblooded and Blooded. Dachande himself is referred to as Blooded...but obviously he's the leader.
There is no mention of "Honoured"
Quote from: happypred on Feb 07, 2015, 12:01:38 PM
There is no mention of "Honoured"
According to this site, there is an Honored ranking but it seems to be interchangeable with Elite.
http://yautjaencyclope.altervista.org/honor.html#Ranks (http://yautjaencyclope.altervista.org/honor.html#Ranks)
Any recent news regarding this upcoming series? Really looking forward to see how it handles the Aliens vs. Predator concept.
Do we know whether it'll ignore Fire & Stone? I'm hoping for it'll take F&S into account
No recent updates. I would also like if it referenced F&S somehow. It would be cool to go back to LV-223 at some point.
I wouldn't be surprise if something popped up if appropriate but I wouldn't want them to go out their way for it. They were happy to accommodate it for River of Pain.
I don't really need the F&S series shoehorned in, but I doubt the Rage Trilogy will ever ignore F&S considering that River of Pain (its predecessor) has already acknowledged it repeatedly.
My biggest hope for Rage War is that we finally meet an Arcturian.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Mar 03, 2015, 01:10:55 AM
My biggest hope for Rage War is that we finally meet an Arcturian.
Bonus points if they use Arcturians as depicted in the Leading Edge 'Aliens' RPG.
^This. ;D
Shit, one of the recent novels cribbed from Newt's Tale, of all things. I wouldn't be at all surprised if other esoteric EU sources started getting nods. 'Aliens: A Comic Book Adventure', anyone?
Just a bit concerned as Titan and Dark Horse are unrelated.
It would be a bit frustrating if Titan's AvP and Dark Horse's AvP ignore each other (or worse...contradict each other). I'm hoping that Fox has demanded some consistency between the two.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Mar 03, 2015, 01:10:55 AMMy biggest hope for Rage War is that we finally meet an Arcturian.
Again, according to the author of
Sea of Sorrows, there are "plans" for the Arcturians.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 03, 2015, 08:52:20 AM
Quote from: Ultramorph on Mar 03, 2015, 01:10:55 AMMy biggest hope for Rage War is that we finally meet an Arcturian.
Again, according to the author of Sea of Sorrows, there are "plans" for the Arcturians.
I'm definitely looking forward to seeing what Lebbon has in store. The subtitles of the books (Incursion, Invasion, Armageddon) makes me wonder if they're doing an Earth War type story.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Mar 03, 2015, 05:05:15 PMThe subtitles of the books (Incursion, Invasion, Armageddon) makes me wonder if they're doing an Earth War type story.
I sincerely hope not
From Tim Lebbon's Facebook:
QuoteFour days off training and I'm climbing the walls! Time for a quick bike ride later, methinks. But first ... edits to PREDATOR: INCURSION. It's the first novel of an alien & predator trilogy called THE RAGE WAR that I'm writing for Titan, and the announcement of the new Blomkamp alien movie has made things interesting!
Huh. Very interesting!
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 10, 2015, 12:14:28 PMQuote...and the announcement of the new Blomkamp alien movie has made things interesting!
This fills me with dread...
I'm afraid of massive delay (or worse...cancellation)
QuoteFour days off training and I'm climbing the walls! Time for a quick bike ride later, methinks. But first ... edits to PREDATOR: INCURSION. It's the first novel of an alien & predator trilogy called THE RAGE WAR that I'm writing for Titan, and the announcement of the new Blomkamp alien movie has made things interesting!
Couple that with Randy Stradley's comments on the new series in development over at Dark Horse...
Quote@Randy_Stradley: @MertaNick @DarkHorseComics We're working on the next wave. The newly announced Neil Nlonkamp film caused a restart.
Rage War is set post-Sea of Sorrows, which is set after Resurrection. If Rage War can be reworked to also take account of Blomkamp's new film, that would seem to indicate that the film won't be ignoring A3 and Resurrection. Either way, I'm very much looking forward to seeing how this all develops.
I wonder of the delays on the Weyland-Yutani report are also due to Blomkamp's film.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Mar 10, 2015, 07:58:54 PMI wonder of the delays on the Weyland-Yutani report are also due to Blomkamp's film.
I wouldn't have thought so. It's already out in some countries, and the delay began way before Blomkamp ever started talking about a fifth film.
Over on Facebook, in the comments on Lebbon's post, someone asked about the changes, and his response was:
QuoteOnly a little, luckily.
So it seems like Alien 5 doesn't cause too many problems for the post-Resurrection period.
Has the script for Alien 5 even been written?
Quote from: Ultramorph on Mar 10, 2015, 07:58:54 PM
If Rage War can be reworked to also take account of Blomkamp's new film, that would seem to indicate that the film won't be ignoring A3 and Resurrection.
I was kind of hoping it would really.. Kind of hoping it would ignore Alien 3 and Resurrection, though not cause I think those two movies should be retconned. Mmm.. :-\
Quote from: predxeno on Mar 10, 2015, 11:04:53 PM
Has the script for Alien 5 even been written?
I don't think so, but my guess is that the basic plot is already in place. They wouldn't ask Lebbon to make changes if they didn't have some concrete idea of what will happen in Blomkamp's film.
the entire universe was dropped into a puddle of mud it feels like, wheats canon whats not whats retconned whats staying..
It will all become clear soon enough, I think. The W-Y Report will come out, and Rage War will come out, and it will be clear what's canon and what's not. I do agree, though, that a lot feels like it's up in the air.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Mar 11, 2015, 01:39:05 AM
It will all become clear soon enough, I think. The W-Y Report will come out, and Rage War will come out, and it will be clear what's canon and what's not. I do agree, though, that a lot feels like it's up in the air.
I can't say I am excited for that. I really can't.. It sort of feels like the AvP Universe I grew up with was wiped clean and replaced with the Prometheus universe. :-[
Quote from: Ultramorph on Mar 10, 2015, 10:36:44 PM
Over on Facebook, in the comments on Lebbon's post, someone asked about the changes, and his response was:
QuoteOnly a little, luckily.
So it seems like Alien 5 doesn't cause too many problems for the post-Resurrection period.
Twas me. :)
Could simply be that, even if Blomkamp intends to overwrite A3 and A:R, Fox doesn't want anything in this book (despite it taking place post-A:R and in the original continuity) to contradict anything in regards to the style of Blomkamp's film, the abilities of his Aliens, etc. It'd be bad marketing to put out a novel, even if it's story has no bearing on the upcoming film, that conflicts with it thematically.
That makes sense, and it seems the changes were VERY little.
Quote from: predxeno on Mar 12, 2015, 05:27:11 AM
That makes sense, and it seems the changes were VERY little.
Exactly what makes sense?
What Nightmare Asylum said.
Watched Chappie...a little bit concerned with what Blomkamp is going to do with the Aliens franchise
Amazon Synopsis is up.
http://www.amazon.com/Predator-Incursion-Rage-War-1/dp/1783296240/ref=sr_1_4_twi_2_mas?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1427618587&sr=1-4&keywords=predator (http://www.amazon.com/Predator-Incursion-Rage-War-1/dp/1783296240/ref=sr_1_4_twi_2_mas?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1427618587&sr=1-4&keywords=predator)
QuoteThe first in an epic trilogy crossing between Predator, Alien, and AVP! When huge Predator spacecraft begin entering human space in alarming numbers, the Colonial Marines assume an invasion and launch a full military response. Then they learn that the Predators are fleeing an invading force--an army of Xenomorphs! Someone has learned how to weaponize the Aliens, and their trajectory through Predator space has placed them on a path to Earth.Beginning an epic three-book space war that will include:Predator: Incursion; Alien: Invasion; Alien vs. Predator: Armageddon
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F51SnoDep3EL._AA160_.jpg&hash=81a22b3ad79cf4a3d787e536c196f65fb4865609)
QuoteThe first in an epic trilogy crossing between Predator, Alien, and AVP! When huge Predator spacecraft begin entering human space in alarming numbers, the Colonial Marines assume an invasion and launch a full military response. Then they learn that the Predators are fleeing an invading force--an army of Xenomorphs! Someone has learned how to weaponize the Aliens, and their trajectory through Predator space has placed them on a path to Earth.Beginning an epic three-book space war that will include:Predator: Incursion; Alien: Invasion; Alien vs. Predator: Armageddon
Interesting...?
Though why would Predators flee from the Xenomorph? It's... kind of not like them, especially when in amassed numbers to flee from such prey.
Sounds pretty neat! I'm looking forward to Rage War quite a bit. It sounds like this will be the large-scale story I was hoping for. Also,
QuoteSomeone has learned how to weaponize the Aliens
I wonder if it's
Spoiler
W-Y.
Eh. Trying to weaponize Aliens? Fine. Actually weaponizing them? No thanks. And what are the USCM still doing around? Isn't this post-Resurrection?
Pass.
It is post-Resurrection. But they reset the status quo in Sea of Sorrows to equate to something more akin to post-Alien 3. Anyway, I hope it introduces a new species or it's the Engineer's coming out full force. It'd have to be something really serious to get the Predators running.
I'll try and get a copy of the cover in a decent size.
How did they handle this "reset?"
USM folded after the Auriga kinda, you know, nailed the planet, and W-Y and other corporations simply had a resurgence in their place.
No mention of the USCM, though. At least not that I remember.
That actually doesn't sound so bad, though WY being among the companies that resurface is a bit of a stretch, since Res gave the impression that they had completely gone under. Would have been cool to see some different companies with different agendas, but I get why they'd want to use WY.
Do they deal with the actual physical fallout of the Auriga's crash in any way?
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 29, 2015, 04:34:58 PM
Do they deal with the actual physical fallout of the Auriga's crash in any way?
Yes, it caused climate change that was threatening to be catastrophic, so the resurgent WY has been terraforming Earth. It also made it sound like France pretty much doesn't exist anymore. "Used to be an important European country" or something like that.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Mar 29, 2015, 05:16:26 PMIt also made it sound like France pretty much doesn't exist anymore. "Used to be an important European country" or something like that.
That was actually a big goof. The book says the ship hit Paris, when the film quite clearly shows it hitting Africa. I'm guessing the author got confused by the added scene at the end of the Special Edition.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 29, 2015, 03:55:58 PM
It'd have to be something really serious to get the Predators running.
Exactly, and weaponizing Aliens wouldn't be enough to get them running en masse. I know that the old EU is not accounted for but we've seen Aliens being weaponized against the Predators... in Three World War. The Predators didn't run from those Aliens, and I'm talking way before the joint team up with the USCMC.
So it'd have to be something EXTREMELY serious to get the Predators running. Although I can't imagine how serious with the Xenomorph it'd have to be. Considering the experiences the Predators have with the Xenomorph, I doubt infestation of homeworld would be that much of a problem assuming the Predators are fleeing from the homeworld.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 29, 2015, 03:55:58 PM
Anyway, I hope it introduces a new species or it's the Engineer's coming out full force. It'd have to be something really serious to get the Predators running.
The Engineers going on a warpath for Earth, displacing the Predators along the way, would be pretty cool, but I doubt Fox is allowing anyone to play with them like that. Look at how lightly they had to tread in Fire and Stone. A new species would be cool, as well.
I have my fingers crossed that the Arcturians become involved somehow.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Mar 29, 2015, 08:20:07 PMI have my fingers crossed that the Arcturians become involved somehow.
Given that
Sea of Sorrows made it very clear we're at least on reasonable terms with the Arcturians, I'd be surprised if they were behind these evil goings on in the new book. But who knows.
Oh, i wouldn't expect them to be the villains. I think they'll play a role in the bigger story of dealing with the whole mess. Helping with the Predator refugee crisis sort of thing.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Mar 29, 2015, 05:16:26 PM
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 29, 2015, 04:34:58 PM
Do they deal with the actual physical fallout of the Auriga's crash in any way?
Yes, it caused climate change that was threatening to be catastrophic, so the resurgent WY has been terraforming Earth. It also made it sound like France pretty much doesn't exist anymore. "Used to be an important European country" or something like that.
I'm surprised no one else found this particular plot point completely idiotic. Ripley crashed the Auriga specifically to prevent a disaster of Aliens finally reaching Earth, only to almost destroy the entire planet anyway.
I think that was part of a deliberate role-reversal, with Ripley looking foolish and the resurgent W-Y looking very capable and dangerous. The original Ripley also came off foolish, since she and Hoop totally failed to destroy the hive on what became New Galveston.
I'd argue its more a case of simple plot convenience to reset the universe lore with a somewhat desperate way to link back to the events of Resurrection but that's probably more me being a pessimistic old git.
But nevertheless it goes against everything Ripley stood for. She spent her life and subsequent second life trying to prevent such a threat from reaching Earth to wipe out humanity, only to more or less manage it herself via other means...
The entire Alien movie series is just one explosion of irony actually; at the end of Aliens, Ripley makes such a great effort to protect Newt, her surrogate daughter, only to lose her at the very beginning of Alien 3. Aliens: Sea of Sorrows lessening Alien: Resurrection's thematic impact isn't a specifically new trend for this series as of late.
Actually, now that I think about it, I don't think the weapoized Xenos are from WY. It wouldn't make sense for them to be coming from (assumingly) remote Predator space. Maybe it's Elden 2.0. :laugh:
Quote from: predxeno on Mar 29, 2015, 09:51:36 PMThe entire Alien movie series is just one explosion of irony actually; at the end of Aliens, Ripley makes such a great effort to protect Newt, her surrogate daughter, only to lose her at the very beginning of Alien 3. Aliens: Sea of Sorrows lessening Alien: Resurrection's thematic impact isn't a specifically new trend for this series as of late.
The Aliens series needs to move on from Ripley. Ripley was an excellent character played to near-perfection by Sigourney Weaver, but the series shouldn't be limited to constantly re-visiting this one character. I don't like Alien 3, but I feel that it does conclude her story arc nicely. I'd like the series to progress, to introduce new characters and situations.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Mar 29, 2015, 09:47:19 PM
I'd argue its more a case of simple plot convenience to reset the universe lore with a somewhat desperate way to link back to the events of Resurrection but that's probably more me being a pessimistic old git.
Not too sure about that considering that James had to go back and tie in 3 and Resurrection retrospectively after the novel was already written. I'm sure something similar was always in the book.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Mar 29, 2015, 06:18:17 PM
Exactly, and weaponizing Aliens wouldn't be enough to get them running en masse. I know that the old EU is not accounted for but we've seen Aliens being weaponized against the Predators... in Three World War. The Predators didn't run from those Aliens, and I'm talking way before the joint team up with the USCMC.
So it'd have to be something EXTREMELY serious to get the Predators running. Although I can't imagine how serious with the Xenomorph it'd have to be. Considering the experiences the Predators have with the Xenomorph, I doubt infestation of homeworld would be that much of a problem assuming the Predators are fleeing from the homeworld.
I'm sure a mass of weaponized Xenomorphs specifically going for the Predators would be good enough. Remember, the EU always displays their humans being their strength and if numbers were sufficient enough...well, AvP flashback.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 30, 2015, 07:17:03 AM
I'm sure a mass of weaponized Xenomorphs specifically going for the Predators would be good enough. Remember, the EU always displays their humans being their strength and if numbers were sufficient enough...well, AvP flashback.
Maybe but we also have to remember that there is an unspecified number of clans. Some of these clans maybe potentially allied with one another, others maybe antagonistic. I'm sure that there are some very strong clans out there with maybe a high number count as well, and throw in potential allied clans.. Well, obvious numbers speak. So for the Predators to be fleeing, some extremely powerful force would have to get them running with Xenomorphs under some control.
You mention the AvP flashback, so I am going to assume you mean the movie. Those Aliens were bred for a specific purpose, and for a few hundred years the Predators were successful... until somewhere along the line, something got screwed up which resulted in the indigenous population of Antarctica being wiped out and the Predators overwhelmed. There were three fighting that pyramid and they took down dozens before being taken down. Their last minute ditch was the self-destruct which... did the job of course. But that was just one clan.
So... what I want to say or ask.. is this ONE clan fleeing or multiple clans? If it's one clan.. I suppose that would be more likely for Xenomorphs to make this one clan of Predators to flee. If it's more than one clan, or the whole race (Super Predators not accounted for due to species tension) then it'd have to be DAMN serious.
....You mentioned the Engineers using the Xenomorphs, well.. what if it's not them? What if it's the Super Predators? Kind of invokes Three World War and AvP: Evolution if that's going to be the case.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Mar 29, 2015, 09:47:19 PMBut nevertheless it goes against everything Ripley stood for. She spent her life and subsequent second life trying to prevent such a threat from reaching Earth to wipe out humanity, only to more or less manage it herself via other means...
But it wasn't Ripley. It was Ripley 8. And the film often hinted that Ripley 8 didn't especially care because she wasn't all human.
(https://dyn0.media.forbiddenplanet.com/products/000_aQ1tAOv.jpg.size-600_maxheight-600_square-true.jpg)
Found a better cover via Forbidden Planet
https://forbiddenplanet.com/138875-rage-war-book-1-predator-incursion/
We're using this on Xenopedia. No idea where it came from (I didn't source it).
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette4.wikia.nocookie.net%2Favp%2Fimages%2F2%2F24%2FPredator_Incursion.jpg%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20150330063121&hash=dd2a4613824157c64119d72da424fece9bd3bd1f)
Ta. Updated the front page.
Can't wait for this to hit the shelves. I liked Lebbon's Alien-book very much. It's a shame we have to wait till September. Well, the TPB's of Fire and Stone are getting published from April on, so I can bridge the time with these...
Quote from: Bender on Mar 30, 2015, 12:26:19 PM
Can't wait for this to hit the shelves. I liked Lebbon's Alien-book very much. It's a shame we have to wait till September. Well, the TPB's of Fire and Stone are getting published from April on, so I can bridge the time with these...
I thought it was going to take longer, myself. Think November was what Tim thought originally. I'm looking forward to it too. I liked Tim's book (liked all 3 tbh but they all had some issues) too so I'm looking forward to see what he does with Jim's reset world.
The cover looks a bit amateurish to me.
Quote from: Donald on Mar 30, 2015, 01:05:56 PM
The cover looks a bit amateurish to me.
You're not wrong there. :-\ I miss the days of the art covers. Even Stephen Youlls photoshop stuff for DH Press was (mostly) good.
Quote from: Donald on Mar 30, 2015, 01:05:56 PM
The cover looks a bit amateurish to me.
It looks terrible. :-\
I think Denis Beauvais was the king of Aliens art. They should bring him back in a big way....
I hope this guy dont try to make turn predators into something else, or we are going to get another Forever Midnight. The synopsis is already lowering my expectations a bit since an invading force of aliens that can pursue them through space seems like the predators' wet dream.
Quote from: Samhain13 on Mar 30, 2015, 01:28:57 PM
I hope this guy dont try to make turn predators into something else, or we are going to get another Forever Midnight. The synopsis is already lowering my expectations a bit since an invading force of aliens that can pursue them through space seems like the predators' wet dream.
I dunno. Could be interesting to see then biting off more than they can chew. Actually show them earning their metal. I just hope the controlling species aren't humans and it serves to further expand the universe.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Mar 30, 2015, 01:27:51 PM
I think Denis Beauvais was the king of Aliens art. They should bring him back in a big way....
That would be my wet dream.
Quote from: Donald on Mar 30, 2015, 01:05:56 PMThe cover looks a bit amateurish to me.
I guess there's always a chance it's not finalised. The book's not out for months yet, could be temp cover.
It looks like a promo image stolen from
AVPR to me, what with Wolf and the sewer background.
It's definitely from AvPR. But not sure you could call it stolen, Fox owns the rights for it all, after all.
I agree, Hicks, I hope this trilogy expands the universe a bit. Who knows, maybe the mystery villains will be the dog-aliens.
I miss the old covers, too. They're nostalgic like those old Goodebumps covers.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 30, 2015, 01:55:46 PMIt's definitely from AvPR. But not sure you could call it stolen, Fox owns the rights for it all, after all.
Figure of speech :)
What are these dog-aliens people are referring to? Not the Alien 3 alien, I assume.
No. They were a different type of ancient (possibly extinct) alien discovered discovered aboard a derelict in the first and second books.
Derelict in the true definition of the word, not a Juggernaut.
The description of their ship reminded me a lot of the Wraith from Stargate Atlantis.
But yes! I would love to see them show up in a bigger capacity! It annoyed me that the books didn't explore them.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 30, 2015, 02:07:37 PMBut yes! I would love to see them show up in a bigger capacity! It annoyed me that the books didn't explore them.
I thought the first book was a fine introduction, it told you some stuff while still leaving plenty of mystery, but then the second book completely squandered its big chance to do some more exploring of the species. I mean
they had people there exploring them, and yet we never find out jack.
It certainly did. I'd actually forgot we had this new species introduced. And with Tim writing the series, makes it seem likely that we'll get his own creation back.
That was definitely the biggest failing of the second book. I kept waiting for living dog-aliens to show up or something.
Quote from: Samhain13 on Mar 30, 2015, 01:28:57 PM
I hope this guy dont try to make turn predators into something else, or we are going to get another Forever Midnight.
Forever Midnight was what made me stay way from most of the upcoming novels at the time. When the Hish mythos was the status quo, I was completely turned off. I love the Yautja concept but I hope Lebbon stays away from it so whatever his ideas are doesn't alter or add something that doesn't belong to that mythology.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Mar 30, 2015, 02:16:54 PM
That was definitely the biggest failing of the second book. I kept waiting for living dog-aliens to show up or something.
Moreover, there was a "dog alien" of sorts in a mural in the Prometheus film. Then it was confirmed by the author that this is no the same as in the book. I think that's kind of lame. Really? There's more than one dog alien species now? Shut the front door!
He didn't dismiss the possibility that they're the same species, he just said it wasn't his intention. So it's up to us to decide, basically.
That tells me the dog aliens were written with complete ignorance of their appearance in the Prometheus mural. Just a coincidence? Or did fox ask the dog aliens to be included. I think there would be some merit in asking the author again about the dog aliens. Even if he was not aware of the dog aliens in Prometheus, if Fox requested them, then it could mean they are one and the same.
Or you're just putting ridiculous emphasis on a mural that's glimpsed for a few seconds that may of may not show a stylised representation of the things in the book...
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 30, 2015, 05:43:36 PM
Or you're just putting ridiculous emphasis on a mural that's glimpsed for a few seconds that may of may not show a stylised representation of the things in the book...
That my dear Huda cannot be ruled out. ;)
It was a coincidene. IIRC when Corporal Hicks interviewed Lebbon he said it wasn't his intention. I don't think he even likes Prometheus.
Im not very excited for this. I enjoyed most of the books, i havnet read any of them except for earth hive-female war in a very long time, but i enjoyed them fro the most part. But this seems a bit silly. even IF aliens could be weaponized, they have to be transported on a ship. and i imagine predator ships have even greater weaponry then their personal armory, as their ships weapons.
Ill get this series but im a bit skeptical about it.
I'm beyond sceptical. I would see an AVP film, but I haven't bought anything AVP in terms of books and comics since the first series by Phil Norwood and Randy Stradley. I probably won't buy these books.
Oh, correction, I did buy the AVP novelization. I can't get through it. It acts as a dust accumulator.
Quote from: Nazrel on Mar 30, 2015, 06:26:54 PM
i imagine predator ships have even greater weaponry then their personal armory, as their ships weapons.
That's what I thought, if the predators have a threat following them they can just destroy it with their ship. The closest we have seen of that was in AVP 2010 when a pred ship destroyed that sulaco like ship with a few shots.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Mar 30, 2015, 06:02:26 PM
It was a coincidene. IIRC when Corporal Hicks interviewed Lebbon he said it wasn't his intention.
Tis the truth. Wasn't his intention. Doesn't mean he might not. Who knows.
This story would make a LOT more sense if it was the Engineers who were driving the Predators out, they're the only force we know of that could potentially be stronger than the Preds; if it's humans who are driving the Predators to such lengths then the whole story just seems silly.
Could be the Engineers, too soon to know. Like I said before, I would love it if that was the case. Humans, Predators, and Arcturians teaming up to stop an Engineer invasion would be pretty sweet. More than likely the villains will be either WY or the dog-aliens, though.
Don't rule out the Super Predators. I mean.. we do know that they also have tensions with the mainstream ones too!
Ugh, I don't want to hear any more about the Arcturians, as u keep saying they just detract attention from the real alien stars of the series.
Good point about the BSPs tho, completely forgot about them.
Ha, I had forgotten about the BSPs, too.
If the Engineers show up... well, I might actually read it then. Predators bore me. I think if we add Arcturians, then we will be in a whole new Star Trek type of universe. But it is better to explore that in books than on film. I think I could only stomach Arcturians if they were an Engineer creation like us. That would be interesting, and it would explain why they loosely look like us, if indeed they do...
I still find it kind of silly to present the Arcturians as aliens at all. I never took the term Arcturian to be anything more than a label for a group of people on another colony (Arcturia or something along those lines).
It's actually Arcturus if we are referencing the actual star not Arcturia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcturus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcturus)
It could really be Aliens or humans. I wouldn't be surprised if Arcturians were actually genderless humans that were created by the Engineers. Hence why it doesn't matter if they're female or not...
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Mar 31, 2015, 01:37:30 AM
If the Engineers show up... well, I might actually read it then. Predators bore me.
I actually am starting to dislike the Engineers. At first they were cool but they're seemingly being presented as these.. intergalactic overlords which is something I really don't like on how EU authors are seemingly presenting them. As for the Super Predators.. well, I don't like them either but if Evolution is to be accounted for.. well, they do have Xenomorphs weaponized already.
At this point it seems like as if it might not be them which are the true antagonist but if anything.. we shouldn't rule them out. If it's the Engineers, well, they are intergalactic overlords.. which is something I don't like. Masters of the Universe, and I just think that's bogus. And I ain't talking about He-Man.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 30, 2015, 10:14:44 AM
We're using this on Xenopedia. No idea where it came from (I didn't source it).
I got it from the Amazon page. For some reason, it only shows up for to the Kindle Edition.
I found a few sites that somehow already have the release date for
Alien: Invasion: March 29, 2015.
- http://www.theopenbook.ca/?q=h.ts&tsf=y&or_qs=Lebbon,%20Tim&or_opt=au (http://www.theopenbook.ca/?q=h.ts&tsf=y&or_qs=Lebbon,%20Tim&or_opt=au)
- http://www.hooked-on-books.ca/?q=h.ts&tsf=y&or_qs=Lebbon,%20Tim&or_opt=au (http://www.hooked-on-books.ca/?q=h.ts&tsf=y&or_qs=Lebbon,%20Tim&or_opt=au)
- http://store.lamaisonanglaise.com/?q=h.ts&or_qs=Lebbon%2C+Tim&or_opt=au&ss=Lebbon%2C+Tim&so=pd&tsf=y (http://store.lamaisonanglaise.com/?q=h.ts&or_qs=Lebbon%2C+Tim&or_opt=au&ss=Lebbon%2C+Tim&so=pd&tsf=y)
Quote from: Quarax on Mar 31, 2015, 03:08:22 AM
I found a few sites that somehow already have the release date for Alien: Invasion: March 29, 2015.
That was yesterday!
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Mar 31, 2015, 01:45:36 AM
It's actually Arcturus if we are referencing the actual star not Arcturia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcturus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcturus)
It could really be Aliens or humans. I wouldn't be surprised if Arcturians were actually genderless humans that were created by the Engineers. Hence why it doesn't matter if they're female or not...
If they're trying to maintain a continuinity within these new novels then we already know the Acturians were aliens. Which I really don't mind. I like the idea of an expanded galaxy - of it being more than just a few species. I also like the ideas that the Engineers created other races, other experiments. I'd like to see more of their maliciousness. Of the arrogance that the galaxy is theirs to do what they wish.
I refuse to take this seriously when Fox/Dark Horse hires a new writer which comes in every time to do their own spin and end up contradicting all writers before them. Once bitten twice shy. One only needs to read all comments before mine to see the result of this epic ongoing (and careless) continuity quagmire.
Uhh.. Something positive? The cover is all cool and stuff. Or something. Sure.
These novels were a restart. All 3 authors knew each other and worked to ensure their 3 books fit. The author of these 3 is one of last 3. It's part of what I've been enjoying - a connection that is akin to the first few novels. I enjoy that feeling.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 31, 2015, 07:58:18 AMThese novels were a restart.
Were they though? I know that was mooted, but then
River of Pain threw in all that
Newt's Tale stuff and now I'm not so sure.
It's just the inclusion of one issue of a series. They were definitely intended to restart the novels and have done that just fine. A few scenes from one issue of a two part series doesn't really negate that intention, I don't feel.
No, I hear what you're saying. It just surprised me that this was supposedly a fresh start, only to lift scenes verbatim from something in the old EU.
I could do with going back and relistening to the Tim interview. I can't remember 100% what he says about the topic.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 31, 2015, 08:06:13 AM
No, I hear what you're saying. It just surprised me that this was supposedly a fresh start, only to lift scenes verbatim from something in the old EU.
I would not consider Newt's Tale to be old EU. If I remember correctly, the derelict also appeared in Allan Dean Foster's adaptation of Aliens. Newt's tale was basically a clever adaptation of Aliens which was from Newt's perspective rather than Ripley's. It neither confirms not contradicts anything in EU. As it is concurrent with canon events in Aliens, it can be considered as pre-EU although technically it came out after the entire Verheiden series came out. I really hope they compile the Newt's Tale series into one volume some day. But ideally, it would be best if they compile all 4 original Aliens film comic adaptations into an omnibus. That would make my day. But I digress..
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Mar 31, 2015, 03:08:03 PMI would not consider Newt's Tale to be old EU. If I remember correctly, the derelict also appeared in Allan Dean Foster's adaptation of Aliens. Newt's tale was basically a clever adaptation of Aliens which was from Newt's perspective rather than Ripley's. It neither confirms not contradicts anything in EU.
I'm not talking about the bits that are in the extended version of the film or the novelisation. I was referring to all the Hadley's Hope infestation stuff that was made up specifically for the comic, including the deaths of Russ and Anne. The new books were supposed to be ignoring the old EU (of which that stuff is a part, because the comics, with the exception of a couple of scenes from the
Aliens Special Edition, just made it up, and it was naff) and yet several of those scenes were recycled verbatim.
I still see all these books and comics as one continuity, btw.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 31, 2015, 03:28:31 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Mar 31, 2015, 03:08:03 PMI would not consider Newt's Tale to be old EU. If I remember correctly, the derelict also appeared in Allan Dean Foster's adaptation of Aliens. Newt's tale was basically a clever adaptation of Aliens which was from Newt's perspective rather than Ripley's. It neither confirms not contradicts anything in EU.
I'm not talking about the bits that are in the extended version of the film or the novelisation. I was referring to all the Hadley's Hope infestation stuff that was made up specifically for the comic, including the deaths of Russ and Anne. The new books were supposed to be ignoring the old EU (of which that stuff is a part, because the comics, with the exception of a couple of scenes from the Aliens Special Edition, just made it up, and it was naff) and yet several of those scenes were recycled verbatim.
I think the key thing to consider is that those events are completely innocuous continuity-wise to every continuity out there, which IMO is why they can be canon. Verheiden's material works with them. Alien 3 and AR works with them, etc. Are they EU, yes, but until something comes along that negates these events, I just figure we can include them. Now I have to start a petition in the Alien Lit section to get all of these film adaptations combined into an omnibus. Off I go...
^I'll sign your petition. ;). And I agree with your views on canon as well.
Quote from: predxeno on Mar 31, 2015, 04:39:58 PM
I still see all these books and comics as one continuity, btw.
Funny, I thought you were coming to the whole multiverse/alternate timeline idea with Blomkamp's movie on the way.
That's the one exception to the rule actually, and it's a movie not a comic or book.
Quote from: predxeno on Mar 31, 2015, 05:30:14 PM
That's the one exception to the rule actually, and it's a movie not a comic or book.
Movies take precedence over comics. I'd say the multiverse idea, assuming that is the case, also applies to the EU. What with the Hish mythos and EU reboot being all, and so far we've had two reboots.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Mar 31, 2015, 04:46:05 PMI think the key thing to consider is that those events are completely innocuous continuity-wise to every continuity out there, which IMO is why they can be canon. Verheiden's material works with them. Alien 3 and AR works with them, etc. Are they EU, yes, but until something comes along that negates these events, I just figure we can include them.
Again though, that wasn't my point. My point was they said they were starting afresh with these new books... but then decided to actively acknowledge the old stuff by include material from it. I just found that strange.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 31, 2015, 06:00:22 PM
Again though, that wasn't my point. My point was they said they were starting afresh with these new books... but then decided to actively acknowledge the old stuff by include material from it. I just found that strange.
Actually some works which do start out as restarts sometimes acknowledge old works, but not necessarily the entire old continuity as a whole. I could list some franchises which do this but I think I'd be beating a dead horse there.
Exactly. The Newt's Tale stuff was just a one-off thing, not a big statement on canon.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Mar 31, 2015, 05:52:18 PM
Quote from: predxeno on Mar 31, 2015, 05:30:14 PM
That's the one exception to the rule actually, and it's a movie not a comic or book.
Movies take precedence over comics. I'd say the multiverse idea, assuming that is the case, also applies to the EU. What with the Hish mythos and EU reboot being all, and so far we've had two reboots.
The author of the Hish, John Shirley, himself stated that he didn't see any reason the Yautja and Hish couldn't exist simultaneously and even had plans to pen a new novel that would incorporate the two, sadly it seems things fell through on that book.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Mar 31, 2015, 06:22:08 PM
Exactly. The Newt's Tale stuff was just a one-off thing, not a big statement on canon.
The author of AVP: Fire & Stone said he didn't want to include any AVP movie material in his story since a lot of fans seem to have placed the films in a separate universe but in the end even he had to go back on his word and include elements from the
separate universe into his story.
Quote from: predxeno on Mar 31, 2015, 06:25:50 PM
The author of the Hish, John Shirley, himself stated that he didn't see any reason the Yautja and Hish couldn't exist simultaneously and even had plans to pen a new novel that would incorporate the two, sadly it seems things fell through on that book.
The Yautja and the Hish COULD theoretically exist in the same universe if there is some retcon going on. For example, the Super Predators, considering their behavior and how they hunt-- they are so close to the Hish that it could be easy to label them as such.
Infact, the Super Predators are being treated as a separate race from the Yautja. Like Vulcans and Romulans. If the NECA backstories are to be considered canonical in any form (I find them very questionable), Scavenger's backstory list him as a Yautja/Super Predator hybrid. Seems more and more, the Super Predators are not being treated as Yautja anymore.
Quote from: predxeno on Mar 31, 2015, 06:25:50 PM
The author of AVP: Fire & Stone said he didn't want to include any AVP movie material in his story since a lot of fans seem to have placed the films in a separate universe but in the end even he had to go back on his word and include elements from the separate universe into his story.
You're referring to the whole blooding mark, right? That more or less might be on Ariel Olivetti's part. I don't see any other elements from the AvP movies being used in Fire and Stone.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Mar 31, 2015, 11:50:21 PM
Quote from: predxeno on Mar 31, 2015, 06:25:50 PM
The author of the Hish, John Shirley, himself stated that he didn't see any reason the Yautja and Hish couldn't exist simultaneously and even had plans to pen a new novel that would incorporate the two, sadly it seems things fell through on that book.
The Yautja and the Hish COULD theoretically exist in the same universe if there is some retcon going on. For example, the Super Predators, considering their behavior and how they hunt-- they are so close to the Hish that it could be easy to label them as such.
Infact, the Super Predators are being treated as a separate race from the Yautja. Like Vulcans and Romulans. If the NECA backstories are to be considered canonical in any form (I find them very questionable), Scavenger's backstory list him as a Yautja/Super Predator hybrid. Seems more and more, the Super Predators are not being treated as Yautja anymore.
Well as you said, many of the new DH Press novels incorporated stuff from the older EU. For Aliens: Steel Egg, John Shirley (also author of Predator: Forever Midnight) actually went back and researched Aliens EU so he could be as accurate to the series as possible which is why that novel has psychic Aliens and drones growing into Queens.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Mar 31, 2015, 11:50:21 PM
Quote from: predxeno on Mar 31, 2015, 06:25:50 PM
The author of AVP: Fire & Stone said he didn't want to include any AVP movie material in his story since a lot of fans seem to have placed the films in a separate universe but in the end even he had to go back on his word and include elements from the separate universe into his story.
You're referring to the whole blooding mark, right? That more or less might be on Ariel Olivetti's part. I don't see any other elements from the AvP movies being used in Fire and Stone.
I don't think there are any other references needed, I think it's pretty clear though that the blooding was put in the story because of its relation to the movie.
I didn't love the Hish, but I remember actually kind of liking Forever Midnight, in an oddball sort of way. But I read it back when it first came out, so it's been quite some time since I read it.
Quote from: predxeno on Mar 31, 2015, 11:56:08 PM
Well as you said, many of the new DH Press novels incorporated stuff from the older EU.
I never said anything in regards to the DH Press books. At least the stuff published from 2005 to 2007.
Quote from: predxeno on Mar 31, 2015, 11:56:08 PM
I don't think there are any other references needed, I think it's pretty clear though that the blooding was put in the story because of its relation to the movie.
Which was later changed to a different blood marking without any explanation to why it was changed. Also, I found it very baffling that Ahab was "hugging" Elden who is something else by now, and yet Predators treat Machiko like shit despite being marked as a Hunter.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Apr 01, 2015, 01:33:05 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Mar 31, 2015, 11:56:08 PM
I don't think there are any other references needed, I think it's pretty clear though that the blooding was put in the story because of its relation to the movie.
Which was later changed to a different blood marking without any explanation to why it was changed. Also, I found it very baffling that Ahab was "hugging" Elden who is something else by now, and yet Predators treat Machiko like shit despite being marked as a Hunter.
The blood marking is the same in the AVP arc of Fire & Stone, also the Predators disliked Machiko because she was of the species they hunted, Elden wasn't. I can imagine a LOT of human hunters wouldn't be pleased if they had to treat deer like equals, same thing goes with fishers and fish.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Apr 01, 2015, 12:17:17 AM
I didn't love the Hish, but I remember actually kind of liking Forever Midnight, in an oddball sort of way. But I read it back when it first came out, so it's been quite some time since I read it.
It was...poor. In my opinion, anyway. But the core philosophy of the Hish I prefer to the Yautja. The second book, Flesh and Blood handled it much better from what I remember.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 07:10:23 AM
It was...poor. In my opinion, anyway. But the core philosophy of the Hish I prefer to the Yautja. The second book, Flesh and Blood handled it much better from what I remember.
I may not have read the Hish mythos but I felt as if they were... out there to say the least. From what I have heard, I didn't like the changes which were made. Namely with the Hish being able to changes sexes involuntarily, the kill gland which caused them to go into a berserker rage, setting fire to newborn Hish to see who was worthy to live, Hish kiddies playing Mortal Kombat with real live humans who were under some mind control, Hish being conquerors and slavers.... It was ridiculous.
The Hish are what made me put down the novels for a very long time and I don't think I'll be picking up these new ones whatsoever. I mean I don't know what Tim's plans are, but while everyone is all Alien centric, I'm all about the Predators and that's what I'm into. I'm more concerned about how they are portrayed, and I hope Lebbon doesn't do anything outlandish. Personally, as much as I love the Yautja concept, I don't want him messing with that.. Keep that preserved the way it is, don't mess with something like that for fans who don't want to see it "fixed" when it ain't broken.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Apr 01, 2015, 07:19:21 AM
I may not have read the Hish mythos but I felt as if they were... out there to say the least. From what I have heard, I didn't like the changes which were made. Namely with the Hish being able to changes sexes involuntarily, the kill gland which caused them to go into a berserker rage, setting fire to newborn Hish to see who was worthy to live, Hish kiddies playing Mortal Kombat with real live humans who were under some mind control, Hish being conquerors and slavers.... It was ridiculous.
Like I said - the first novel was poor. But Flesh and Blood took the aspect I liked - the thrill of the hunt, not the space samurai stuff and made the Predators brutal. Just how I liked it.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 07:31:30 AM
Like I said - the first novel was poor. But Flesh and Blood took the aspect I liked - the thrill of the hunt, not the space samurai stuff and made the Predators brutal. Just how I liked it.
I suppose it's a matter of preference. I prefer the Yautja mythology and that's what I'm sticking with.
Of course there is the neutral material where the Predators are neither shown to be neither Yautja nor Hish. Like, Big Game, Turnabout and South China Sea. I wouldn't mind it if Lebbon avoided either and remained neutral and just referred to them as Predators.
South China Sea is the best Predator novel. Hands down. Heads and shoulders above anything else out there. Turnabout was also great. I'd prefer he keep them neutral too but I'm sure if he needs to, he'll go to the Yautja. It's just too prolific.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 07:40:56 AM
I'd prefer he keep them neutral too but I'm sure if he needs to, he'll go to the Yautja. It's just too prolific.
I hope he doesn't. Not because I don't like the Yautja mythos, but because I love it quite a lot. I am conservative about how all of that is handled. In my opinion, the Perry's and David Bischoff handled that aspect pretty well. I'm just wary if Lebbon will be adding or changing things which I feel won't agree with the Yautja aspect of things, especially if this is supposed to be part of a reboot of the EU.
Then you have a stale and stagnant element. Boring. If you're not interested in development then there's no point in even bothering with new releases. That's the whole point of the expanded universe - to expand.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 07:46:55 AM
Then you have a stale and stagnant element. Boring. If you're not interested in development then there's no point in even bothering with new releases. That's the whole point of the expanded universe - to expand.
I just feel as if the Yautja aspect more or less has been viewed enough. I don't mind seeing something new but I don't want it to clash with something I feel has been established. For example, I don't want to see Predator Kings when in previous EU material (i.e. games and comics) has established that Predators have a Council of Ancients. I also don't want to know if Engineers also created the Predators, I mean isn't that enough they were made Galactic Overlords?
If the Yautja aspect is to be expanded, I feel as if it has to keep the elements of the old but bringing in with things that don't clash with the old. For example, I wouldn't mind seeing different clans having different cultures. You know how some idigenous tribes out there have different cultures, like... one tribes being cannibals, others not so much, or how some tribes are representive of an element like say... oh.. an Earth Tribe or Fire Tribe? Case in point.. compare an Iroquois to the Apache.
THAT I wouldn't mind seeing.
You saw that. Predators. And you complained. :-\
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 08:01:12 AM
You saw that. Predators. And you complained. :-\
[Sighs]
I didn't like the Preserve Planet and the whole Super Predator thing which was done for the Rule of Cool. You know the whole I-Pod and 8-Track comment? Yeah, they were done for Rule of Cool.
I didn't mind the Killer clan, I didn't mind the Poacher clan in Extinction either. I've been a firm believer that none of the clans were uniform, and that they followed certain lineages and what have you. It's about execution more than anything else. I liked the Killer clan in Three World War and I liked the Poacher clan in Extinction. I know there were other clans but.. I can't put my finger on them unless those were the other two significant clans in the old EU.
The concept of the Super Predator isn't even in the film. It never made it onto screen. I wish people would move on from that.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstream1.gifsoup.com%2Fview6%2F2426913%2Fscrubs-head-explode-o.gif&hash=02152229622a700c7f76830ca9d74db7816bc27a)
Whoever did that exploding head. That's who we need for the SFX in the new Alien film.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 08:08:21 AM
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/2426913/scrubs-head-explode-o.gif
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sObyG9bTf5A#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sObyG9bTf5A#ws)
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 01, 2015, 08:09:50 AM
Whoever did that exploding head. That's who we need for the SFX in the new Alien film.
Actually.. whoever did THIS crushed head effect is who we need for the new Alien film!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7Sptdhpa8A#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7Sptdhpa8A#ws)
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Apr 01, 2015, 08:10:46 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 08:08:21 AM
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/2426913/scrubs-head-explode-o.gif
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sObyG9bTf5A#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sObyG9bTf5A#ws)
Seriously though. That's not even a valid complaint as the original concept is nowhere in the actual film. In fact, the film presents them exactly as what you just said you wanted. A different Predator clan with visibly different culture that conflicts with the "classic".
And even then you mention wanting cannibal Predators. Granted it's been sometime since I read that early draft but didn't the actual Super Predators do that?
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 01, 2015, 08:09:50 AM
Whoever did that exploding head. That's who we need for the SFX in the new Alien film.
It's from an early Scrubs episode.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 08:19:25 AMIt's from an early Scrubs episode.
Yeah, I realised. Clearly Stan Winston was busy :P
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 08:19:25 AM
Seriously though. That's not even a valid complaint as the original concept is nowhere in the actual film. In fact, the film presents them exactly as what you just said you wanted. A different Predator clan with visibly different culture that conflicts with the "classic".
Funny.. because other material asserts them as being Super Predators, and the same material seems to further drift them apart from the whole Yautja concept, more or less making the Super Predators considering themselves to be a whole other race. Scavenger is being listed as a Yautja-Super Predator hybrid. I'm not kidding.
As for the film itself, I did not like the execution. Also, I never said I wanted anything.. I said I wouldn't mind. Doesn't necessarily mean I have high hopes. But it all depends on the execution. For me, the Super Predator thing.. it was too far out there. The idea of the whole preserve planet, them being so radically different to an anatomical standpoint.. These guys might as well be an off-shoot race. Not ethnicity, not clan or tribe but an off-shoot race like how Romulan and Vulcans are.
But as I said, some material out there seems to assert that may be the case. I wouldn't mind it if the EU would write these Super Predators as a removed and off-shoot race with their own name designation. It doesn't have to be Yautja, nor Hish.
Honestly, that would make that easier for me to swallow and accept these guys.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 08:19:25 AM
And even then you mention wanting cannibal Predators. Granted it's been sometime since I read that early draft but didn't the actual Super Predators do that?
I never said I wanted Cannibal Predators. I was making comparisons on how some real life indigenous tribes on Earth had happened to be cannibals. I was making an analogy on how some Predator clans could be different. Again, like making comparisons to Native American tribes. I never said explicitly that I wanted Cannibal Predators. Just making analogies is all.
Also, I don't remember the Super Predators being cannibals in any of the early scripts. Then again, I only just read those two scripts. The 1994 and 2009 script.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Apr 01, 2015, 08:30:49 AM
Funny.. because other material asserts them as being Super Predators, and the same material seems to further drift them apart from the whole Yautja concept, more or less making the Super Predators considering themselves to be a whole other race. Scavenger is being listed as a Yautja-Super Predator hybrid. I'm not kidding.
The backs of figures are probably amongst the lowest tier of EU. I'd rate them as valid as the Kenner comics.
QuoteAs for the film itself, I did not like the execution. Also, I never said I wanted anything.. I said I wouldn't mind. Doesn't necessarily mean I have high hopes. But it all depends on the execution. For me, the Super Predator thing.. it was too far out there. The idea of the whole preserve planet, them being so radically different to an anatomical standpoint.. These guys might as well be an off-shoot race. Not ethnicity, not clan or tribe but an off-shoot race like how Romulan and Vulcans are.
How are they "radically different"? Different colour. Present in various humans. Different forehead. Present in various humans. There's nothing to present these as a different race. Merely another ethnicity with minor physical differences and a different ideology. They like to bring their prey out of its comfort.
I love the idea of a preserve planet. I think it's a fantastic addition to the Predator mythology and it makes complete sense.
QuoteI never said I wanted Cannibal Predators. I was making comparisons on how some real life indigenous tribes on Earth had happened to be cannibals. I was making an analogy on how some Predator clans could be different. Again, like making comparisons to Native American tribes. I never said explicitly that I wanted Cannibal Predators. Just making analogies is all.
Wouldn't mind/Wanted.
QuoteAlso, I don't remember the Super Predators being cannibals in any of the early scripts. Then again, I only just read those two scripts. The 1994 and 2009 script.
Like I said, it'd been a while so my memory might not be accurate. I've got no desire to really read them again. I disliked them. The film, I didn't.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 08:44:10 AM
The backs of figures are probably amongst the lowest tier of EU. I'd rate them as valid as the Kenner comics.
I'm not arguing the validity of the NECA backstories, as I find them questionable but I figured it was something worth pointing out. Of course, I am unsure who writes these backstories be it NECA, or Fox's in-house writers themselves. Either way, while I wouldn't take them as something solid, I figured it was something worth pointing out.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 08:44:10 AM
How are they "radically different"? Different colour. Present in various humans. Different forehead. Present in various humans. There's nothing to present these as a different race. Merely another ethnicity with minor physical differences and a different ideology.
They are very different. You're presenting them as the same species when they are more or less an off-shoot. Noland said it best with his own analogy with the Dogs and Wolves comment:
"Anyway, there's two different types of them out there. Hmm? Now, they're similar, but they're different. It's kind of like the difference between dogs and wolves."
As for the differences, well they are glaringly obvious. The Super Predators are implied to be taller, stronger, faster and smarter. That's not even touching the rest of the physical stuff. The cranial region seems to be exaggerated along with the mandibles. The skin is visible different on the face as well if Berserker is shown to be an example with indentations and rises happening in the skin. Folds here and there, all that sort of weird stuff going on. Also there is the foot configuration.. These guys have three large toes, where as the mainstream Predators have four or five toes.
Going back to the Dogs and Wolf comment.. Are they the same thing? They're cousin species. One just happened to branch off the other as it's been domesticated, the other remained nearly unchanged for thousands of years. But are dogs and wolves the same thing? No, they're not but they are closely related. Dogs and wolves are the same genus but they're different species.
Same applies to the Predators and Super Predators.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 08:44:10 AM
I love the idea of a preserve planet. I think it's a fantastic addition to the Predator mythology and it makes complete sense.
I did not like the idea of the Preserve Planet. For me it takes away the idea of what the Hunt is supposed to be about. A Predator isolating himself in an alien world, putting himself in a challenging environment that he has to familiarize himself with, his prey having the home field advantage to heal and restock on whatever it needs. The aspect of the chase, the aspect of fair game in a sporting hunt. And that's not bringing the "space samurai" honor concept into that.
For me, THAT'S Predator. Something which the first two movies did spectacularly, and could still do.
You remember that King of the Hill episode where Hank wants to take Bobby out to hunt but feels as if his son is too inept to do it, and then tries to make up for it by taking Bobby to a La Grunta resort where they have captured buck out in the open where the Hunters sit in posts and shoot them in the wide open? For me that's what the Perserve Planet provides.. A canned hunt.
And many Hunters out there really don't like canned hunts. Completely takes the sport out of everything. In a controlled environment where the Super Predators reign, it's not about the thrill of the hunt anymore, it's about bagging a prey in the cheapest way possible.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 08:44:10 AM
Wouldn't mind/Wanted.
More like open to the idea of, but it depends on the execution.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 08:44:10 AM
Like I said, it'd been a while so my memory might not be accurate. I've got no desire to really read them again. I disliked them. The film, I didn't.
How in the hell did we even get talking about PREDATORS to begin with. I know that's a touchy subject since you and I don't agree on the film and honestly, I wasn't even intending to go there but here we are.
Having that said... I agree with you on the scripts. I didn't like those either.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Apr 01, 2015, 09:07:31 AM
I'm not arguing the validity of the NECA backstories, as I find them questionable but I figured it was something worth pointing out. Of course, I am unsure who writes these backstories be it NECA, or Fox's in-house writers themselves. Either way, while I wouldn't take them as something solid, I figured it was something worth pointing out.
I'd disagree they're worth bringing up. I don't know for a fact but I imagine they're just written by NECA.
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They are very different. You're presenting them as the same species when they are more or less an off-shoot. Noland said it best with his own analogy with the Dogs and Wolves comment:
"Anyway, there's two different types of them out there. Hmm? Now, they're similar, but they're different. It's kind of like the difference between dogs and wolves."
"Kind of like". Nolan is in no position to make a definitive statement about their genetics. It's just easier to say than "it's kinda like the difference between this race/ethnicity of humans/then that other race".
QuoteAs for the differences, well they are glaringly obvious. The Super Predators are implied to be taller, stronger, faster and smarter.
My boss at work is all of those compared to me. Is he a sub-species? Am I?
This group may not be representative of the whole ethnicity.
QuoteThat's not even touching the rest of the physical stuff. The cranial region seems to be exaggerated along with the mandibles. The skin is visible different on the face as well if Berserker is shown to be an example with indentations and rises happening in the skin. Folds here and there, all that sort of weird stuff going on. Also there is the foot configuration.. These guys have three large toes, where as the mainstream Predators have four or five toes.
Going back to the Dogs and Wolf comment.. Are they the same thing? They're cousin species. One just happened to branch off the other as it's been domesticated, the other remained nearly unchanged for thousands of years. But are dogs and wolves the same thing? No, they're not but they are closely related. Dogs and wolves are the same genus but they're different species.
Same applies to the Predators and Super Predators.
The African fella's at work also have different skin to me. Are they a different species to myself? No. It's ethnicity. Humans come in all shapes and sizes with all sorts of differences. The foot thing, granted but that's more than likely down to artistic license than any desire to make them some sort of sub-species.
You just read into it too much in an effort to isolate them from the films because of your dislike of the film and a concept that didn't even make it into the film.
QuoteI did not like the idea of the Preserve Planet. For me it takes away the idea of what the Hunt is supposed to be about. A Predator isolating himself in an alien world, putting himself in a challenging environment that he has to familiarize himself with, his prey having the home field advantage to heal and restock on whatever it needs. The aspect of the chase, the aspect of fair game in a sporting hunt. And that's not bringing the "space samurai" honor concept into that.
For me, THAT'S Predator. Something which the first two movies did spectacularly, and could still do.
You remember that King of the Hill episode where Hank wants to take Bobby out to hunt but feels as if his son is too inept to do it, and then tries to make up for it by taking Bobby to a La Grunta resort where they have captured buck out in the open where the Hunters sit in posts and shoot them in the wide open? For me that's what the Perserve Planet provides.. A canned hunt.
And many Hunters out there really don't like canned hunts. Completely takes the sport out of everything. In a controlled environment where the Super Predators reign, it's not about the thrill of the hunt anymore, it's about bagging a prey in the cheapest way possible.
Depends on the context of the preserve. Our hunting preserves are controlled. Dropping a bunch of dangerous prey on a planet isn't controlled. And then there's the increased danger of desperate prey. Isn't there a saying about animals being most dangerous when they're cornered?
I get what you're saying - that it could make it less of a challenge but I disagree completely. I think it gives the potential of an even greater challenge, when these violent and dangerous people/creatures are fighting for their very existence on an Alien planet. Look at Royce for flips sake.
QuoteMore like open to the idea of, but it depends on the execution.
I'll give you that. But I stand by the opinion that Predators was a well done film. I would have reduced the number of new Predators to one and removed the dialogue homages but otherwise, I think it's a great film that I like as much as Predator.
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How in the hell did we even get talking about PREDATORS to begin with. I know that's a touchy subject since you and I don't agree on the film and honestly, I wasn't even intending to go there but here we are.
Same way as usual. Hish vs Yautja. Then someone mentions the BSPs as if they are as originally intended.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 09:24:43 AM
I'd disagree they're worth bringing up. I don't know for a fact but I imagine they're just written by NECA.
Well, they are an official source. Not like they're fanon or anything. I just thought they'd be worth something bringing up, even if they are questionable.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 09:24:43 AM
"Kind of like". Nolan is in no position to make a definitive statement about their genetics. It's just easier to say than "it's kinda like the difference between this race/ethnicity of humans/then that other race".
I thought that the Wolf and Dog analogy served fine enough in the context of the film in what he was trying to get across. If anything, I thought he was right on the money. Evolution has a weird way of playing things out, the slightest change in an environment could cause an entire species to choose to either adapt or go extinct. Sometimes, evolution results in enough changes to where a genus could result in similar but different species.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 09:24:43 AM
The African fella's at work also have different skin to me. Are they a different species to myself? No. It's ethnicity. Humans come in all shapes and sizes with all sorts of differences. The foot thing, granted but that's more than likely down to artistic license than any desire to make them some sort of sub-species.
And I am a Hispanic with thick, straight hair and dark skin and brown eyes. Aside form the differences between myself, you and the friend from work you bring up, we're still homo sapiens are we not? Thing is you are trying to apply human cultural and biological qualities to a fictional alien species, who while having different tribes, are a completely different thing from we are.
It's like comparing apples and oranges. Like you've got a variety of different apples and oranges, you can't compare. Also Rodriguez himself even goes onto say that these Predators are a different breed, different species. But hey, I guess Word of God doesn't count in your book, right?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 09:24:43 AM
You just read into it too much in an effort to isolate them from the films because of your dislike of the film and a concept that didn't even make it into the film.
My disliking of the film cast aside, I am going by what is presented to me in the movie, through Rodriguez's statements and what material has been published in the official material-- confirmed or questionable. I'm looking ALL sources here.
Now if you want to discuss on how much I hate the film THAT's an unneeded discussion which I'm sure the both of us REALLY don't want to get into. Hell, I did not want to get into this discussion but here we are... Again.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 09:24:43 AM
Depends on the context of the preserve. Our hunting preserves are controlled. Dropping a bunch of dangerous prey on a planet isn't controlled. And then there's the increased danger of desperate prey. Isn't there a saying about animals being most dangerous when they're cornered?
An animal is most dangerous when cornered... But how dangerous is said animal when the Hunter has weaponry which is perhaps equivalent to military grade weaponry, even by Predator standards? I mean those Super Predators did have upgraded weaponry according to Noland.
As for cornering an animal to make it's most dangerous.. same thing could be done on a hunt in the wilderness. Or in the Predator's case, off-world and on the prey's home turf.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 09:24:43 AM
I get what you're saying - that it could make it less of a challenge but I disagree completely. I think it gives the potential of an even greater challenge, when these violent and dangerous people/creatures are fighting for their very existence on an Alien planet. Look at Royce for flips sake.
And I am glad that you get what I am saying but I disagree with completely with your view. I've already mentioned my reasons, and I don't feel like I need to re-state them again. So we'll have to agree to disagree.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 09:24:43 AM
I'll give you that. But I stand by the opinion that Predators was a well done film. I would have reduced the number of new Predators to one and removed the dialogue homages but otherwise, I think it's a great film that I like as much as Predator.
I still stand my opinion that PREDATORS was a terrible movie. I've seen it five times, tried to watch it a sixth. You can't say I didn't give the movie a chance when I gave it five viewings to let it grow on me. I probably would've responded to the movie better had it been set on Earth but we would've seen the clan war between the two Predators happening in some other jungle. Or any other environment, like.. a desert, or caverns. We'll have to agree to disagree.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 09:24:43 AM
Same way as usual. Hish vs Yautja. Then someone mentions the BSPs as if they are as originally intended.
It's almost six in the morning. Can I go to sleep, Dad?
(A playful joke)
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Apr 01, 2015, 09:47:51 AM
Well, they are an official source. Not like they're fanon or anything. I just thought they'd be worth something bringing up, even if they are questionable.
They're only figures. It's not like they're fully fledged stories. Granted, the content has to be approved by Fox but it's still only a few paragraphs to sell a figure. Nothing more.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 09:24:43 AM
I thought that the Wolf and Dog analogy served fine enough in the context of the film in what he was trying to get across. If anything, I thought he was right on the money. Evolution has a weird way of playing things out, the slightest change in an environment could cause an entire species to choose to either adapt or go extinct. Sometimes, evolution results in enough changes to where a genus could result in similar but different species.
And I am a Hispanic with thick, straight hair and dark skin and brown eyes. Aside form the differences between myself, you and the friend from work you bring up, we're still homo sapiens are we not? Thing is you are trying to apply human cultural and biological qualities to a fictional alien species, who while having different tribes, are a completely different thing from we are.
It's like comparing apples and oranges. Like you've got a variety of different apples and oranges, you can't compare. Also Rodriguez himself even goes onto say that these Predators are a different breed, different species. But hey, I guess Word of God doesn't count in your book, right?
And the thing is you're also trying compare terrestrial biology to a fictional action species. And you whole heartedly advocate the anthropomorphization of the Predators through the Yautja culture. So I don't think that's a very good argument for you.
It's far more reasonable to assume that they are the same species, just different ethnicities. There are not enough differences to reasonably think otherwise. All of the Predators (aside from Classic) look different from one another. But I don't see you trying to make any of them a cousin species. You even talk about them being differing tribes elsewhere in the forum.
Different breed could be taken all sorts of ways.
But it's all moot, isn't it? They're a fictional species. Just seems to me to be due to your opinion of the film and an effort to remove these Predators from the fold.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 09:24:43 AM
My disliking of the film cast aside, I am going by what is presented to me in the movie, through Rodriguez's statements and what material has been published in the official material-- confirmed or questionable. I'm looking ALL sources here.
Now if you want to discuss on how much I hate the film THAT's an unneeded discussion which I'm sure the both of us REALLY don't want to get into. Hell, I did not want to get into this discussion but here we are... Again.
And again, it didn't make it into the film. It's all well and good and interesting discussing various intentions that were discussed and bandied about. But trying to use them to justify your opinion is pointless because they're not representative of the actual product. For example, one of your frequent complaints - They may have said Predators ignores Predator 2 - nothing in the film contradicts it. At all. It is just a spiritual sequel to the first.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 09:24:43 AM
An animal is most dangerous when cornered... But how dangerous is said animal when the Hunter has weaponry which is perhaps equivalent to military grade weaponry, even by Predator standards? I mean those Super Predators did have upgraded weaponry according to Noland.
Did we see anything significantly better? The Falcon, maybe. A Plasma Caster with a faster rate of fire - and worse accuracy. There's nothing to suggest that any of the equipment was better.
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As for cornering an animal to make it's most dangerous.. same thing could be done on a hunt in the wilderness. Or in the Predator's case, off-world and on the prey's home turf.
And I am glad that you get what I am saying but I disagree with completely with your view. I've already mentioned my reasons, and I don't feel like I need to re-state them again. So we'll have to agree to disagree.
Evidently so.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 01, 2015, 09:24:43 AM
I still stand my opinion that PREDATORS was a terrible movie. I've seen it five times, tried to watch it a sixth. You can't say I didn't give the movie a chance when I gave it five viewings to let it grow on me.
Doesn't help if you're not willing to be persuaded by it. I can watch AvPR as many times as I am willing but if I'm not open to its good qualities then it wont make one iota of a difference to my opinion. That's not giving it a chance when you're so deadset on your dislike. Same goes for these debates.
Quote
It's almost six in the morning. Can I go to sleep, Dad?
(A playful joke)
You can go to bed whenever you like, Junior. :) P.S Love that you have to clarify that - internet, ain't it wonderful for conveying tone. :-\
Wow, these posts got really long really fast. I liked Predators too btw. ;). It went exactly in the direction I wanted it.
I wasn't really offended by Predators at all. Quite a likeable homage to the first film. But I may not be picking up on all of the nuances as I am not a huge Predator fan.
I'm curious to see how much Rage Wars changes the status quo of the universe. It could be bigger than Earth War in that regard.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Apr 01, 2015, 10:07:50 PM
I'm curious to see how much Rage Wars changes the status quo of the universe. It could be bigger than Earth War in that regard.
Me too!
I decided to give the novels a try so I bought the new Alien trilogy and it has absolutely got me hooked. I loved how it explored human society a bit more in the way that films and games could not. Such as how Out of the Shadows mentioned humanity's excitement in finding simple life on one of Saturn's moons I believe it was. As well as exploring the dangers of space travel, mentioning how astronauts get trapped in space due to a hull breach and such. These tiny details really enrich the setting for me.
Then I also enjoyed how Sea of Sorrows established how the Arcturians are aliens (I always suspected that) and like you, Ultramorph, I am uber-excited to see more of the Arcturians. As much as I loved the Predators, this setting does get a bit stagnant if Oomans are the only sapient race they hunt. But thanks to the Engineers, this has opened a whole new window of races to show up.
I liked the Tetramands that Ahab faced in one of the Fire and Stone issues ;D http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/ben10fanfiction/images/1/1f/200px-Wikia_Fourarms_UA.png/revision/latest?cb=20110506130804 (http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/ben10fanfiction/images/1/1f/200px-Wikia_Fourarms_UA.png/revision/latest?cb=20110506130804)
I noticed some people were against the addition of other races in the series, but let's face it... there have ALWAYS been a few others out there even in the old EU.
- Reapers "Aliens: Reapers"
- Suom's tribe in "Aliens: Alien"
- That one alien whose ship crashed on Earth in the 50's "Alien: Earth Angel" or something like that.
- That giant lizard grilling facehuggers for a meal (not sure of the comic name) and while this may make the Xenomorph feel less threatening (as Reapers also ate facehuggers and ovomorphs) it goes to show that out there in the cosmos, there are bigger predators.
But what separates this universe from the typical Star Trek/Star Wars/Mass Effect trope is that while there are other races out there, human contact with them is rather limited. Heck, we had FAR more contact with the Predators than we seem to have had with any other race.
I did like Alan Decker's response to the W-Y woman when she mentioned a derelict Dog-Alien craft and ruins, he was all "so? We encountered loads of races" implying that by the 2497's, humanity has met or found quite a handful.
Now what I am really curious about are two things:
1: Would the Predators have their own "classification" like the Xenomorphs do? (Xenomorphs XX121)
2: When exactly will the Rage War be set? Do you guys think it will be the early 2500s? This is what I loved about Sea of Sorrows, I remembered the old SNES AVP game set during 2493 and wished to see more of that world and this novel granted my wish. Another game "Predator: Last of His Clan" is set during 2593 (the furthest we seem to have gone in the AVP timeline) and Rage War may explore the early moments of that century.
Anyway, sorry for my long post. I am really excited for the upcoming series and had a lot to say. I hope it does quite well for the franchise.
Glad to see someone as excited as I am!
I too hope we get some 25th/26th century tech and more alien species. Hopefully Lebbon writes Decker well. He didn't do much for me in Sea of Sorrows.
I personally liked Decker, but yeah, there is room for improvement.
Jim Hooper from Out of the Shadows was a really interesting and fleshed out character, so Tim Lebbon seems to know what he is doing. In all honesty, while I enjoyed all three novels, the one written by Lebbon seems to be the most immersive and well written for me. I literally couldn't stop reading it and finished it in less than a week.
But the other two, I took it slowly. So I am quite glad that it's him who is writing the new books.
I wonder how the Predators will view the humans in this century. Some old novels apparently say that Predators considered humans sometimes to be too dangerous to hunt so they avoided some of our core systems including Earth. I wonder what this new novel will set up. Another thing that excites me is the human "military response" to the Predator ships arriving, we might see some space battles! I wonder how Marine ships evolved in this century.
Spoiler
We saw cool plasma warheads in the end of Sea of Sorrows.
It wouldn't surprise me if by this century, humans do become very dangerous so Predators would need to resort to their more powerful arsenal. Imagine if we see similar weapons from the RTS game AvP Extinction pop up here, or Tim could throw in some new high end gear that we've never seen before.
Also, Ultramorph, seeing as how you are an Arcturian enthusiast like myself, how do you imagine the Arcturians to be like? In terms of appearance and culture. When I search for "Arcturian" on Google images, I get "Grey Alien" type of results. I kinda imagine them to look a bit similar to Greys, bald and humanoid but not as small and skinny. In a way, I picture them as similar to humans but a bit alien which could explain the difficulty in determining their genders. I also imagine their technology level to be very close to ours, maybe a bit advanced but who knows. Some of the impressive tech from Aliens may have been given to us from our "Arcturian Trading Partners". Sea of Sorrows does establish that upon making contact with Arcturians (and learning of other sapient life) corporations such as W-Y boosted their technological progress by a significant margin.
You can really tell by the way things look in Alien and Aliens, sure a lot could happen in a few decades, but limited trading with other benign civilizations shouldn't be ruled out.
I'm not sure how I picture the Arcturians. Not quite like Greys, but you're right, they must have something vaguely similar to human physiology for them to be sexually desirable to humans. I imagine they're probably reclusive, me don't interact too much with humans. I think they're probably slightly above our tech level, but haven't shared much of it with us.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Apr 02, 2015, 12:47:43 AM
I'm not sure how I picture the Arcturians. Not quite like Greys, but you're right, they must have something vaguely similar to human physiology for them to be sexually desirable to humans. I imagine they're probably reclusive, me don't interact too much with humans. I think they're probably slightly above our tech level, but haven't shared much of it with us.
Hence why I've often suggested in older posts that Arcturians are made by Engineers. If they are basically human-like then it stands to reason. If they are indeed similar to us but different sexually, then it may make sense that the Engineers are conducting experiments in what is the most "elegant" form of reproduction. Clearly the method shown at the beginning of Prometheus involved too much sacrifice. I suspect that the human method of reproduction left the Engineers vastly disappointed in humans. They may have ultimately found the idea of reproduction without sacrifice to be inconsistent with their hopes for what we should become. It may be why they hate us...
You got some good points there. They certainly seem reclusive as they don't appear nor are mentioned outside of Aliens.
This is what makes this universe quite different from most sci fi, alien life isn't all open to contact. It's not a very united galaxy. Every race for itself.
I hope the new novel explores Predator interactions with other aliens. I haven't read it, but from what I heard, South China Sea honestly does it best. Mentioning past hunts and other alien animals and sapients. Someone on this forum mentioned how the Predator in SCS got his hoverboard from a fungoid alien, I would love to hear what the novel explains about this creature if anyone would like to share that, I would appreciate it. I am curious about the sentence or paragraph in the novel that describes that part.
And good point Perfect-Organism, on them possibly being made by Engineers. Like I said earlier, the Engineers are a great way of introducing new races. However, I am with Rakai'Thwei on Predators being a natural evolution. Perhaps their very humanoid shape could be an example of "convergent evolution" where life completely isolated just so happens to evolve similarly to another lifeform. My reasoning for this is that Predator as a franchise was not originally part of the Alien franchise so in a sense it's symbolic to keep Predators as their own thing even in the Alien universe. Arcturians however originated within the Alien franchise so they can be an Engineer creation.
If in the end, Predators turn out to be a creation of the Space Jockeys, I wouldn't really be too bothered by it.
I agree, it's defintely possible that the Arcturians were made by the Engineers. The recent FaS comics showed that the Engineers have created other, vaguely humanoid species, like the four-armed alien that Ahab fights.
I've thought about the Predators' relationship with the Engineers in the past as well. I'm not sure how their reproduction has ever been (if at all) covered in any of the EU out there. Ever since the Predalien meets pregnant woman scene in AVP Requiem, it occurred to me that the Predators have (get this) oral reproductive organs. That reproductive system may have been something that the Predalien inherited from the Predators.
I think there was also a somewhat crude rereference to this in Predator 2 now that I think about it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23tmhlwVpp8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23tmhlwVpp8)
Anyway, that jives with what I have said earlier. The predators may be yet another Engineer experiment in humanoid reproduction. I know that the Engineers most likely did not exist yet in anyone's mind (who knows?) at the time of AVP: Requiem, but in hindsight, it is a good reason for why the Predators and Aliens were genetically compatible..
Does anyone know if Predator reproduction was ever addressed?
I remember seeing some concept sculpture for a scene that never made it into the AVP film. It was about Predators rising out of some stasis inducing goo in the nude. The "stuff" looked alien enough but it wasn't in the mouth.
But that is concept material. Who knows what official material would say. Some EU states there are females and they have breasts while other material states they are hermaphrodites.
The upcoming tabletop game has female pred units so it appears that Fox too prefers a gendered Predator race. South China Sea also apparently mentions females.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Apr 02, 2015, 01:11:29 AM
However, I am with Rakai'Thwei on Predators being a natural evolution.
This is something which I would like to be more or less untouched. I am a firm believer that the Predators are something of a result of natural evolution. Just leave them alone. I don't need to know if they are a creation of the Engineers and I hope that is something which is never answered. I'd like to think that the Predators are actually their own thing.
I mean if that is something answered and they are made out to be creations of the Engineers, I just feel it takes something unique away from them. Some life is artificially made, some life can be natural. I'd prefer if Predators are natural occurring creatures, or like to think that and would really not like to see that touched.
Sure, Predator Homeworld suggested the idea that Predators were descended from an ancestral race which was displaced onto another world to reach their evolutionary apex but that was just that, an idea, a theory. Nothing concrete. Leave some ambiguity.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Apr 02, 2015, 01:11:29 AM
I hope the new novel explores Predator interactions with other aliens.
I don't mind it if Predators have interacted with other aliens. I would've thought that Predator 2, AVP-R and the old EU material suggested that, even if lightly touched upon. We don't know if the creatures which were shown in the trophy cases were sentient, and I don't think we need to know that. They're a Hunter/Warrior race that are all about remaining hidden from their prey. At best, Predators are going to have an antagonistic and hidden presence in regards to other alien races.
I get the feeling that some people want to go a Star Wars/Star Trek route with the Predators as far as interacting with other alien races. Aside from a Hunter-Prey relationship, do we really need to know if Predators establish diplomatic relationships with other races, or established wars with other races? The latter... I'm open to.. DEPENDING on the execution.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Apr 02, 2015, 01:11:29 AM
If in the end, Predators turn out to be a creation of the Space Jockeys, I wouldn't really be too bothered by it.
I'm not too keen on this idea. My problem with Fire and Stone's aspect was that it was Prometheus centric and now Prometheus is treading on Predator territory, which is something where I feel... doesn't belong. Prometheus has no place in Predator, and Predator has no place in Prometheus. Completely different movies, one is a very sophisticated movie which is supposed to have deep metaphorical philosophical bull and the other was an 80's action B-movie flick (I'm a fan of Predator but damn it, I ain't gonna pretend that it's something it isn't-- and that's not counting the old EU).
I get the feeling that the Engineers are being presented as these Galactic Overlords that rule over all. And I don't really like that direction and execution. If you ask me, this direction and execution sort of dethroned the Alien as the main antagonist and more or less reduced them to something second flute-- made them more or less a minion archetype. Hey, if people complained about ALIENS turning the creature into a cannon fodder space bug, then some folks are gonna complain how Prometheus made them out to be a cannon fodder space bug which was a by-product f**k up.
I'd hate to see the Predators be reduced to third flute and made them out to be just creations of an over-hyped, over glorified, new Galactic Overlord race.
My opinions on Predators are very loose. I'm not a big fan of Predators and I only kind of got into them through the original AVP series. I respect that there are hard-core Predator fans, and I would not want their world over-turned too much. Personally, I agree that Predators should steer clear of Engineers. Those worlds don't need to intersect. It was silly to see that in comics and would be 10 times sillier on the big screen.
I'm just sort of postulating about Predators and their gender. I'm not really interested in them enough to get too deep into their motivations, biology, sociology and what not. The idea that a whole race is all about hunting and war seems a bit ridiculous to me, but I can see that it makes no sense to go beyond that really. Though I guess one could get a chortle out of thinking that somewhere out there in the Predator universe, there must be Predators sitting around somewhere crunching taxes for clients, and Predator cab drivers, and Predator doctors, and Predator poets, musicians, artists, etc. You get the point. It's the answer to a question nobody is asking...
P.S. Predator plumbers lol!
I quite like the idea of the Engineers being behind the creation of a multitude of lifeforms. I especially like the idea they created the Aliens because that gives the Engineers power. Real power. And malice. To actually create a lifeform for the intention of using as a weapon. I don't think it takes away anything from the Aliens - they still have their own series. It just makes the possibilities for Prometheus even greater. If handled properly, anyway. I still think Prometheus as we got it was a clusterf**k.
I'm not sure if I like them being responsible for all life though. It takes away variety. But on the flipside of that, the idea that our entire galaxy is their playground could also go well towards making the Engineer even more powerful.
And whilst I know you want your Predators to remain special and unique, it lends more power and impact to the Predators and Ahab if they are Engineer creations and they go out and hunt down their own creators. I kind of like that.
But again - I'm not sure I like the idea of an entire Engineer created galaxy as that dilutes the possible stories unless we go extra-galactic.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 02, 2015, 08:47:34 AMI quite like the idea of the Engineers being behind the creation of a multitude of lifeforms. I especially like the idea they created the Aliens because that gives the Engineers power. Real power. And malice. To actually create a lifeform for the intention of using as a weapon. I don't think it takes away anything from the Aliens - they still have their own series. It just makes the possibilities for Prometheus even greater. If handled properly, anyway. I still think Prometheus as we got it was a clusterf**k.
I'm not sure if I like them being responsible for all life though. It takes away variety. But on the flipside of that, the idea that our entire galaxy is their playground could also go well towards making the Engineer even more powerful.
And whilst I know you want your Predators to remain special and unique, it lends more power and impact to the Predators and Ahab if they are Engineer creations and they go out and hunt down their own creators. I kind of like that.
But again - I'm not sure I like the idea of an entire Engineer created universe as that dilutes the possible stories unless we go extra-galactic.
We park our cars in the same garage.
Oopps. Mean - "But again - I'm not sure I like the idea of an entire Engineer created
galaxy as that dilutes the possible stories unless we go extra-galactic."
Oh and Tim Lebbon replied to my tweet -
Quote@timlebbon Tim! What are odds of the dog-aliens from Out of the Shadows making a return in Rage War? - Mar 30
@_CorporalHicks The odds are fair...
https://twitter.com/timlebbon/status/583567660060905472
Great post, Hicks.
And that would be ironic if Predators were made by Engineers yet go and hunt them as it reminds us of the "creators being destroyed by their creation" trope.
Spoiler
Like how the humans in Assassin's Creed contributed to the downfall of their own creators in the past.
I see the Engineers as extremely powerful and advanced, but they would have a species wide ego. They would think they own everything yet they don't really as many of their creations contribute to their own downfall.
And Tim's reply sounds really hopeful. It would be interesting if the Dog-Aliens appear... what type of role do you think they would play, Corporal?
I'm wondering if they're the ones controlling the Aliens. I've replied to ask.
It would fit with their apparently nurturing Aliens on their ship in the first couple of novels.
That would make some sense, Corporal.
The Out of the Shadows and Sea of Sorrows novels show that they tried collecting eggs and breeding aliens, There's some juxtaposition going on there. So it won't be surprised if the new wave of aliens is the folly of their mad science. People like Decker might first point fingers at Weyland-Yutani due to them acquiring a live drone, and a queen Facehugger as well as a normal one if I remember correctly, with the queen one implied to contain two embryos.
I first originally thought that Predator: Incursion would be about Predators discovering Oomans having acquired their favoured prey and they arrive for a glorious hunt. However, this new plot has really piqued my interest.
Speaking of these other aliens and Predators, I wonder how "much" the other races know about the Predators. Humanity (at least the government and higher ups) tend to know quite a bit about the Preds, Elden seemed to imply that he had no clue what the Predators even were in their first encounter and I kinda liked this idea that Engineers and Predators would know very little about eachother. But alas, that was Elden... we don't know what the REAL Engineer was saying.
And speaking of knowledge about Predators, do you guys think that by the late 25th to early 26th centuries, Xenomorphs and Predators are public knowledge? I just remembered that Judge Dredd crossover where the Predator's hunt is publicly described on Mega City One's News channel. It would be neat to explore human thoughts on the Predators and knowing Tim, it is high he would explore such details. I hope to see Predator opinions on humans as well especially if there are possible (if fragile) alliances to overcome a common foe. As well as Pred interactions with Arcturians and Dog-Aliens if they show up.
Tim just responded:
Quote@_CorporalHicks Indirectly... I sorta wish so much wasn't given away in the write-up on Amazon.
Exciting news!
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 02, 2015, 02:53:35 PM
Tim just responded:
Quote@_CorporalHicks Indirectly... I sorta wish so much wasn't given away in the write-up on Amazon.
! My plot guess:
Spoiler
The dog aliens are controlling the xenos, and WY steps up with their own weapoized aliens to try and fight them, alongside the Predators and Arcturians.
Can't wait!
Hmm, this would only really interest me if it was canon with the upcoming Alien 5 and Prometheus 2. But the aforementioned already have ruled out the AVP films so I can't see them reinstating the Predators back into the Alien universe which tells me that this may be in conflict with the new films which tells me it may not be canon. Otherwise, we will have multiple AVP Galaxies. I can understand separate canons for cross-overs like AVP, but why have multiple AVP canons? Man, I dunno...
I've been wanting to address some points as last night I couldn't sleep and read them more on my phone. So if I seem irritable, please understand but I've been wanting to address some things which were mentioned.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 02, 2015, 08:47:34 AM
I quite like the idea of the Engineers being behind the creation of a multitude of lifeforms. I especially like the idea they created the Aliens because that gives the Engineers power. Real power. And malice.
I don't mind the Engineers creating many life forms, but I don't think they should be responsible for creating ALL life. This also includes the Predators, and I will touch up on that later. But as I said, I don't mind the Engineers creating some life in the universe. I also don't mind them being so advanced they posses power other races don't.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 02, 2015, 08:47:34 AM
I don't think it takes away anything from the Aliens - they still have their own series. It just makes the possibilities for Prometheus even greater. If handled properly, anyway. I still think Prometheus as we got it was a clusterf**k.
I don't mind the Engineers creating the Xenomorph. It's something we've long speculated for over twenty years, so that's nothing really new. What I don't like is how it's being handled. The Aliens are completely second flute now, and Fire and Stone sort of shows that-- especially how one Engineer made HILLS of Xenomorph corpses, with his bare hands. I'm not as much as a fan of Alien as I am with Predator, but when the original antagonist of the Alien franchise is made second flute.. Well.. it dethrones the Aliens. It's all about execution and I don't like the way they're executing things.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 02, 2015, 08:47:34 AM
I'm not sure if I like them being responsible for all life though. It takes away variety. But on the flipside of that, the idea that our entire galaxy is their playground could also go well towards making the Engineer even more powerful.
This. This is something which I've been trying to say and you've addressed it on both sides. I am all about variety, let there be variety. Life can happen naturally and artificially. The universe is a big place so why CAN'T life happen without the Engineers? Surely they haven't covered the entire universe and charted it. I don't mind if the Engineers created some life but I would mind it if they created ALL life, especially with the Predators.
For them to really create all life in the universe would further make them and cement them as Galactic Overlords and that's just something I would find very boring and an excuse to put the Engineers on a higher pedestal. Leave some ambiguity. Keep some mystery. I don't want to find out that life in the Alien-Predator universe wouldn't have occurred without the Engineers just because they bored and decide to make new toys.
The Engineers are very powerful as it is, but the Alien-Predator universe isn't Star Wars/Star Trek and doesn't need Galactic Overlords.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 02, 2015, 08:47:34 AM
And whilst I know you want your Predators to remain special and unique, it lends more power and impact to the Predators and Ahab if they are Engineer creations and they go out and hunt down their own creators. I kind of like that.
What's wrong with wanting Predators to remain special and unique? I mean I do understand what you are trying to say in that there is a sense of irony in that the Engineer's creations are trying to kill their own creators but going back to your own doubts, I want to keep variety. Predators should be a part of that variety along with a few other species out there. I mean isn't it enough that Humans and Xenomorphs are results of Engineers being bored and playing with their toys?
As I said, if all life in the Alien-Predator universe was created by the Engineers who more or less are creations themselves by some higher power as hinted by Ridley Scott... then life couldn't, wouldn't have happened on it's own and I just find that to be very, very boring. Nothing would be unique, the Engineers would be overlords, Aliens would be second flute and reduced to genetic screw ups, and Predators would be no different from Humans, Xenomorphs and every other life form out there.
Engineers can be responsible for life, just not ALL life. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Apr 02, 2015, 04:13:19 PM
Hmm, this would only really interest me if it was canon with the upcoming Alien 5 and Prometheus 2. But the aforementioned already have ruled out the AVP films so I can't see them reinstating the Predators back into the Alien universe which tells me that this may be in conflict with the new films which tells me it may not be canon. Otherwise, we will have multiple AVP Galaxies. I can understand separate canons for cross-overs like AVP, but why have multiple AVP canons? Man, I dunno...
Assuming if Blomkamp's Alien movie is ignoring Alien 3 and Resurrection, but not retconning them then this may hint that there maybe an Alien-Predator multiverse. I've got an entire thread about that, though most of it it's thirty pages of debating between myself and Xenomrph, but it discusses on whether or not there is or should be an Alien-Predator multiverse. I would be absolutely thrilled if Blomkamp's movie is an alternate timeline/universe.. That's all I have looking forward to this movie, because it'd establish we have a multiverse.
I am all for multiple AvP canons. Everything would have a place. Fans would be able to pick and follow what they want, and canon nazi's wouldn't say boo about it because it's just different canons. No one would be excluded, no one would be wrong. I've made mentions to a certain Japanese franchise which has eight, and as of April 1st 2015, nine different canons. And that franchise gets along just fine, so why can't Alien-Predator?
All good points. I am all for the multi-canon idea, but I don't see a point for multi AVP canons. My reasoning for that is that there doesn't need to be any conflicts between 1 AVP story and the next. But then again I would have never expected to see Predators fighting Engineers a la FaS. So whatevers I guess. As long as the main Alien movie canon has Engineers but no predators in it, I'm cool with that. I just don't get the appeal of the Predators anymore. I think James' and Ridley's comments as well as AVPR ruined them for me.
I agree with you Perfect-Organism that there doesn't need to be any conflict between AvP canons. I also like the idea of everything being in one continuity and like Predxeno, I try to put things together and for me, what doesn't make sense, I only slightly change it in my headcanon.
I treat some of these comics, novels and movies as "reports" of these incidents, and like with reports, there can be multiple reports and there can always be an error or two as nobody remembers events too perfectly.
Anyway, I see you aren't a Predator fan and that's absolutely fine. I am curious about what it is about them you don't find appealing anymore. You did mention that the thought of an entire race being obsessed in hunting was ridiculous, however, to me that is what makes them absolutely ruthless as a race.
To me, Predators are technological and sapient, but in no way would I class them as "civilized". I don't even see them as having Predator lawyers, accountants, bankers etc as funny as those examples you listed were to picture in my head. :D
But from the cities we saw in AvP-R and AVP2010 game (although that was more of an abandoned ruin) they seem to have a vastly different society to ours, one based more on rituals and strict clan rules. One fanfiction I read long ago mentioned how Predators prefer to build things by hand and to me, that would make them rather unique as opposed to us who are using more robots in factories. Obviously about their ships some things could be automated while the rest could be done by Predators. They are a very physically powerful race so building by hand does not seem out of the ordinary.
As for their currency, I like the idea of it being status based. I know some fans here are against "honour", but to me, Predator honour is based more on how "honourable" your clan deems your actions to be and not on what human opinions on honour are. For example, it's based more on being a badass and making something harder for yourself. You don't really have to disarm yourself to fight a Xenomorph Queen, nothing stops you from blasting her head apart with a charged plasma caster. Buuut... females smile upon the hunter who chucks his caster away and breaks that Queen's neck with his bare hands.
And such deeds bring respect which helps you rise among your clan and gives access to better living quarters and technology. Falling down the ranks means you lose such things just like you would in human society if you were to go bankrupt.
Since at the age of 100, it is implied that they are merely adolescents, then it is of no surprise that they may spend the earlier ages being taught by their parents or clan how to fight as well as about their technology. I think most Predators actually KNOW how to build their own masks and customize them. How many humans know how their smartphone works and would they be able to build it from scratch? Just a little hypothetical question. I would love to see this being explored about the Predators. They do seem very intelligent despite their savage brutality and strict ritualism but like I mentioned earlier, in no way are they by any means "civilized" in terms of behaviour.
And this is why I find them so appealing, there is something about a race that just doesn't give a damn and goes out there to hunt other sapients that is so appealing. I don't see Predators as allying with anything either, they seem way too isolationist for that.
The RTS game AvP Extinction gives some really good scraps on their society including their clan laws and their ruling council the "Council of Ancients" that are over 1,000 year old individuals who govern other clans which are in turn lead by Elders.
I am gonna leave you guys with this quote from a Predator in the AvP2010 game manual, what do you guys think of it and I hope Tim Lebbon explores this too:
"We are old, my brother. Our race is few and scattered. Our ancestry lost to myth. The humans are still children, creatures of desire and hubris, with no comprehension of the long hunt. Still, they make good sport. They have discovered a trophy long locked away. They must not be allowed to find the crucible that spawned our most respected prey. If they succeed, all life will succumb to the crawling dark...".
Speaking of AvP2010, I remember the Predator telling me to "breach their primitive security systems" while in the lab, I love how even the year 2209 human technology is "primitive" to these guys. Plus apparently they consider the marine war tactics to be "juvenile" according to Wikipedia but I couldn't find that during the game.
I wonder how they will compare technologically to 25th/26th century humanity. One thing I love doing so much in this franchise is comparing the two races tech wise. And now with the addition of more races, it's becoming even more fun to add in other contenders. To me, Predators are definitely "up there" in the list of advancements while humans could be mid-tier.
The summary over on Amazon has been changed slightly, I think to be less spoilerific. It now omits any reference to the xenos being controlled.
QuoteThe first in an epic trilogy crossing between Predator, Alien, and AVP! When Predator spacecraft begin entering human space in alarming numbers, headed toward Earth, the Colonial Marines assume it's an invasion and launch a full military response. Then when they discover the presence of Xenomorphs, they realize the threat is more catastrophic than anything they could have imagined! Beginning an epic three-book space war that will include: Predator: Incursion; Alien: Invasion; Alien vs. Predator: Armageddon.
http://www.amazon.com/Predator-Incursion-Rage-War-1/dp/1783296240/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1428340711&sr=8-1&keywords=rage+war+lebbon (http://www.amazon.com/Predator-Incursion-Rage-War-1/dp/1783296240/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1428340711&sr=8-1&keywords=rage+war+lebbon)
Bet Tim is happy now xD
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 06, 2015, 05:29:32 PM
Bet Tim is happy now xD
Yeah but we still know about some details than originally intended. :laugh:
Are you gents lining up a new chat with Tim about the upcoming novel?
Man, the wait for this novel is killing me! It is so close! Just a couple of more months.
Anyone got anymore speculations or things to discuss about the novels? This thread was pretty silent lately.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Jul 01, 2015, 10:46:45 PM
Are you gents lining up a new chat with Tim about the upcoming novel?
Nothing planned yet but I intend to when we get closer to release.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Jul 01, 2015, 10:54:25 PM
Anyone got anymore speculations or things to discuss about the novels? This thread was pretty silent lately.
No new details out. :-\
I'd completely forgotten about this. Might have to put a pre-order in.
Still looking forward to this. Hopefully it lives up to its potential. I like the idea of a three-book space war. The one thing I'm really pulling for is for some Arcturians and dog-aliens to show up.
Indeed. I'd really like them to expand a bit more (and go somewhere with it!).
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jul 02, 2015, 11:42:02 AM
Still looking forward to this. Hopefully it lives up to its potential. I like the idea of a three-book space war. The one thing I'm really pulling for is for some Arcturians and dog-aliens to show up.
Aw hell yeah!
And to explore the ship weaponry of both the Colonial Marines and Predators.
Also to explore how the Predators deal in such situations of strife that they seem to be in. How this possible alliance with humans could shape their culture further, if their opinions may change on us.
And who knows? A wild Engineer may even turn up. ;D
I'm so pre-ordering this when September hits.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Jul 02, 2015, 04:03:43 PM
And to explore the ship weaponry of both the Colonial Marines and Predators.
This is something I'd really like to see more of.
Predator: Incursion has an updated summary over on Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/Predator-Incursion-Rage-War-1/dp/1783296240/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1438015297&sr=8-1&keywords=tim+lebbon+rage+war&pebp=1438015302135&perid=1N18VP15GBVSP17EX9VE (http://www.amazon.com/Predator-Incursion-Rage-War-1/dp/1783296240/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1438015297&sr=8-1&keywords=tim+lebbon+rage+war&pebp=1438015302135&perid=1N18VP15GBVSP17EX9VE)
Spoiler
QuotePredator ships stream into human space in unimaginable numbers. The Colonial Marines, controlled by Weyland-Yutani, respond to the incursion, thus entering
THE RAGE WAR
This terrifying assault by the Yautja cannot go unchallenged, yet the cost of combat is high. Predators are master combatants, and each encounter yields a high body count. Then when Lt. Johnny Mains and his marines—the VoidLarks—enter the fray, they discover an enemy deadlier than any could imagine.
BOOK ONE IN AN EPIC TRILOGY
...that continues in ALIEN: INVASION and concludes in ALIENS VS. PREDATOR: ARMAGEDDON. The universe will forever be changed.
One thing that jumped out at me
Spoiler
VoidLarks....Larke....
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fovermental.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F05%2FNeill-Blomkamp-The-Larke-Tease.jpg&hash=79070891f9c7bfb8c8d1323a287bfaf1d98536c2)
Probably nothing, but still amusing. Can't wait for this book. I hope it lives up to the promise of changing the universe.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jul 27, 2015, 04:46:54 PMThe Colonial Marines, controlled by Weyland-Yutani
Lame.
Also, would the Colonial Marines even exist over 300 years after
Aliens?!
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 27, 2015, 05:17:13 PM
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jul 27, 2015, 04:46:54 PMThe Colonial Marines, controlled by Weyland-Yutani
Lame.
Also, would the Colonial Marines even exist almost 300 years after Aliens?!
They basically reset the universe in
Sea of Sorrows, getting rid of the USM and bringing W-Y and the Marines back.
I'm not thrilled by the "controlled by W-Y" thing, but I suspect, given the ending of
Sea of Sorrows, that there's something interseting in store for what role W-Y will play in Rage War.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jul 27, 2015, 05:21:26 PMThey basically reset the universe in Sea of Sorrows, getting rid of the USM and bringing W-Y and the Marines back.
Yeah, I get that, and I read the last three books. I just find it a little unbelievable that the exact same military unit is still operating more than three centuries later.
Yautja? Ugh...
True, it feels pretty regressive. That's why I hope the new books change the universe up a bit.
Meh.
Ok, let me elaborate a little so I'm not just taking up bandwidth...
Meh. Hmpfh.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jul 27, 2015, 04:46:54 PM
Predator: Incursion has an updated summary over on Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/Predator-Incursion-Rage-War-1/dp/1783296240/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1438015297&sr=8-1&keywords=tim+lebbon+rage+war&pebp=1438015302135&perid=1N18VP15GBVSP17EX9VE (http://www.amazon.com/Predator-Incursion-Rage-War-1/dp/1783296240/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1438015297&sr=8-1&keywords=tim+lebbon+rage+war&pebp=1438015302135&perid=1N18VP15GBVSP17EX9VE)
Spoiler
QuotePredator ships stream into human space in unimaginable numbers. The Colonial Marines, controlled by Weyland-Yutani, respond to the incursion, thus entering
THE RAGE WAR
This terrifying assault by the Yautja cannot go unchallenged, yet the cost of combat is high. Predators are master combatants, and each encounter yields a high body count. Then when Lt. Johnny Mains and his marines—the VoidLarks—enter the fray, they discover an enemy deadlier than any could imagine.
BOOK ONE IN AN EPIC TRILOGY
...that continues in ALIEN: INVASION and concludes in ALIENS VS. PREDATOR: ARMAGEDDON. The universe will forever be changed.
One thing that jumped out at me
Spoiler
VoidLarks....Larke....
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fovermental.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F05%2FNeill-Blomkamp-The-Larke-Tease.jpg&hash=79070891f9c7bfb8c8d1323a287bfaf1d98536c2)
Probably nothing, but still amusing. Can't wait for this book. I hope it lives up to the promise of changing the universe.
It looks like you and I are the only ones who can't wait for this book, Ultramorph. :)
What really excited me is that the Yautja are being treated as a formidable force, as they should be. I would love to see how this unfolds and how humans overcome such overwhelming odds. I'm glad that this is a "Predators are invading" rather than "Predator refugees fleeing from something", they are merely making a tactical retreat and kicking the ass of anything that gets in the way of said tactical retreat.
The whole "controlled by W-Y" isn't too surprising, didn't Karl Bishop Weyland pretty much state in the 2010 game that he "owns" the Marines anyway. Weyland-Yutani pretty much owns almost everything in ALIEN, especially if it concerns space.
Who knows just how much control anyway, maybe they influence the Marines but not fully control them. Do not underestimate the power of the almighty dollar, and W-Y literally wipe their asses with money, that's how rich they are.
Just so we're not having to flick onto the link get the synopsis -
Spoiler
Predator ships stream into human space in unimaginable numbers. The Colonial Marines, controlled by Weyland-Yutani, respond to the incursion, thus entering
THE RAGE WAR
This terrifying assault by the Yautja cannot go unchallenged, yet the cost of combat is high. Predators are master combatants, and each encounter yields a high body count. Then when Lt. Johnny Mains and his marines—the VoidLarks—enter the fray, they discover an enemy deadlier than any could imagine.
BOOK ONE IN AN EPIC TRILOGY
...that continues in ALIEN: INVASION and concludes in ALIENS VS. PREDATOR: ARMAGEDDON. The universe will forever be changed.
I'm looking forward to the series. But meh to the Yautja being involved. It was always implied that W-Y exercise some measure of control over the marines (something that was talked about in River of Pain) but never overtly. That said, with Sea of Sorrows resetting the state of play to something more akin to Aliens...I'm sure there's a chance that the marines may essentially be private military rather than government military.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Jul 27, 2015, 10:23:46 PMIt looks like you and I are the only ones who can't wait for this book, Ultramorph. :)
:) I am actually looking forward to this. Doesn't mean I'm not gonna question a few things about it though. The last three books were all riddled with issues but overall I enjoyed them.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Jul 27, 2015, 10:23:46 PMWho knows just how much control anyway, maybe they influence the Marines but not fully control them.
That's what I'm hoping. It worked in
Aliens because the company part-owned the colony with the ECA, so they could therefore exert influence on the Marines to get it checked out. I particularly like the idea hinted at in the novelisation and elsewhere that Burke conspired to have Gorman put in charge, hoping that an inexperienced commander would let him have his own way.
But as for W-Y outright
owning the Marines... No. It's too Evil Inc.
So the Yautja version is still canon then? Great to know but let me get this right.. they're invading but not really invading, but making a tactical retreat into Earth controlled space from.. from other powerful alien force. Am I right about that?
We can surmise that from the other synopsis', yeah.
Well I suppose it's retreating from a force of Aliens that are controlled by an external force.
Alright, good to know before I get started on my shift at work. Not too sure if I wanna read this one. After the last novel reboot back in 2007, a lot of the whole novel universe felt like it lost its weight.
You mean the DH Press novels? Aside from Forever Midnight those were the strongest Predator novels released.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jul 28, 2015, 01:58:26 PM
You mean the DH Press novels? Aside from Forever Midnight those were the strongest Predator novels released.
I was referring specifically to the Hish'qu-Ten mythos novels actually.
I want to read South China Sea and Turnabout.
Also, in this novel.. since the Yautja are at war, will we be seeing multiple clans allied or a Yautja military?
Flesh and Blood also included Hish but a much more refined and movie-like interpretation of them and it was still a very strong novel. The Predator ones kept getting better and better.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Jul 28, 2015, 05:12:34 PM
Also, in this novel.. since the Yautja are at war, will we be seeing multiple clans allied or a Yautja military?
Interesting question! I'd prefer to see the tribal nature but I'm not sure we'll get that.
Quote:) I am actually looking forward to this. Doesn't mean I'm not gonna question a few things about it though. The last three books were all riddled with issues but overall I enjoyed them.
It's good to question things, Huda. :) You have a point about how W-Y and the Marines can still exist even after several centuries. I think the real life US Marines were around during WW2 and are still around, no doubt the way they operate went through some changes. I am not too knowledgeable in this, but they did exist for quite a while.
But with the Colonial Marines, things may be different because for all we know, life expectancy could be longer in the ALIEN universe (I would love for them to explore this), by the time of Sea of Sorrows, they had these "body modification" facilities where this W-Y guy who was overweight wanted to go to instead of a gym. If I remember correctly, it could alter your physique to that of a healthy well toned or even muscular man. So no doubt that with improved medical care comes greater life expectancy which could lead to organizations lasting a bit longer too.
Do we have any examples of companies existing for centuries? I know I checked some products that proudly state something like "since 1850" or something along those lines.
Imagine W-Y says "since 2099" on the back of their products in the 26th century. ;D
QuoteThat's what I'm hoping. It worked in Aliens because the company part-owned the colony with the ECA, so they could therefore exert influence on the Marines to get it checked out. I particularly like the idea hinted at in the novelisation and elsewhere that Burke conspired to have Gorman put in charge, hoping that an inexperienced commander would let him have his own way.
But as for W-Y outright owning the Marines... No. It's too Evil Inc.
That is absolutely true, they did have influence because they co-funded the colony with the government.
I am assuming that W-Y holds a huge monopoly in things related to space exploration including other alien lifeforms. Hopefully the novel explains this. This kinda reminds me of those conspiracy theories about oil companies or the rich one percenters of the world owning the governments. Perhaps in the far future, W-Y asserts some strong influences because remember, in Sea of Sorrows, it is mentioned that W-Y "saved" Earth by cleaning up the mess made by the USM which lead to the public giving lots of support to these corporations.
So they are almost like a government, they have the most powerful asset so far - the hearts of the people.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jul 28, 2015, 06:24:52 PM
Flesh and Blood also included Hish but a much more refined and movie-like interpretation of them and it was still a very strong novel. The Predator ones kept getting better and better.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Jul 28, 2015, 05:12:34 PM
Also, in this novel.. since the Yautja are at war, will we be seeing multiple clans allied or a Yautja military?
Interesting question! I'd prefer to see the tribal nature but I'm not sure we'll get that.
Those are some very good questions, guys. Maybe we'll see some more Yautja war gear here, like we saw glimpses in AvP Extinction.
I know Extinction made mention of a Predator military but considering that we are talking about a culture and clan based society of Hunters and Warriors, wouldn't that make a military somewhat redundant?
I prefer to think that if there is a threat this big, then clans would put aside differences and band together against a common foe.
And we don't know who the Yautja in the new EU are fighting. Engineers? Super Predators? Or something completely new?
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Jul 28, 2015, 07:54:58 PM
I know Extinction made mention of a Predator military but considering that we are talking about a culture and clan based society of Hunters and Warriors, wouldn't that make a military somewhat redundant?
I prefer to think that if there is a threat this big, then clans would put aside differences and band together against a common foe.
And we don't know who the Yautja in the new EU are fighting. Engineers? Super Predators? Or something completely new?
They could be fighting the Dog-Aliens as Tim Lebbon did tease that we haven't seen the last of them if I'm not mistaken.
As for the military Predators, most of them are simply clan veterans such as the Vanguard while the "military units", I assume may come from very experienced warriors who volunteered to serve in war? Who knows. I too like the idea of the Predator "army" to be different from ours, we don't need no Predator Generals, Colonels, Sergeants etc.
I really wanna see some more ship weapons from both, humans and Predators though!
I'm quite interested to see how the dog-aliens are handled, if they're in Rage War. It will be interesting to see if they're anthropomorphized like the Predators sometimes are, or if they'll be handled more as an unknowable sort of enemy.
It will also be cool to see what Prometheus elements wind up getting included. There were little bits in the first trilogy.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jul 28, 2015, 09:51:04 PM
I'm quite interested to see how the dog-aliens are handled, if they're in Rage War. It will be interesting to see if they're anthropomorphized like the Predators sometimes are, or if they'll be handled more as an unknowable sort of enemy.
It will also be cool to see what Prometheus elements wind up getting included. There were little bits in the first trilogy.
Could you remind me of the Prometheus elements?
I remember the MedPod being in the first and third books. And in the first book, they were saying how excited humans were once they discovered simple life besides bacteria (just like the biologist reacted in the deleted scenes of Prometheus, mentioning they only found single celled life but "this, this is LIFE!" as he cups away a worm)
Most of the references were more like the authors nodding and winking, like when Ripley says, more or less, "This is the first evidence of intelligent alien life." That's a "But we the audience know that's not true!" sort of thing. In Sea of Sorrows they mention Earth being terraformed for the second time, a small reference to the Weyland Industries timeline. River of Pain mentions that the Jockeys are wearing suits, IIRC. Just small stuff.
I know it won't happen, but it would be cool if Rage War took up to LV-223 at some point. Almsot totally unlikely. though, given licensing.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jul 28, 2015, 10:54:31 PM
Most of the references were more like the authors nodding and winking, like when Ripley says, more or less, "This is the first evidence of intelligent alien life." That's a "But we the audience know that's not true!" sort of thing. In Sea of Sorrows they mention Earth being terraformed for the second time, a small reference to the Weyland Industries timeline. River of Pain mentions that the Jockeys are wearing suits, IIRC. Just small stuff.
I know it won't happen, but it would be cool if Rage War took up to LV-223 at some point. Almsot totally unlikely. though, given licensing.
Thanks for taking the time to answer, Ultramorph.
Now that you mention it, I wonder what kind of planets this trilogy would explore. Would this war be a territorial kind of war? Would Predators employ a more guerrilla approach? (I think they would), and would this mainly be a jungle planet or a human colony? I wonder what really compelled the Yautja to attack humans in the first place if they are making a tactical retreat from an unseen enemy. Maybe it might be shame at the thought of retreating even for tactical purposes? So they feel the need to kick ass just to feel good about running away. ;D
I wonder if Tim is still gonna use the Arcturians in some way, afterall, there were apparently some plans for them as well.
Ooohh, September, get here already!
I had forgotten about the Arcturians! So many species to play with, not to mention River of Pain making it sound like humans had encountered even more species besides of "Arcturian trade partners."
As far as planets, it would be cool to get some stuff on the Predator homeworld. Maybe an early chapter with it getting attacked or something. It would be cool to have an Alien story set a bit more on Earth. The Invasion and Armageddon subtitles have me sort of hoping we get an Earth Hive type story. I loved that novel when I was younger.
On another note, I'm hoping that this novel gives us our first hints about what they having cooking with Alien 5. I wouldn't expect anything explicit, but I'm going to be scouring it to see if I can catch what Lebbon had to change so as not to contradict the new movie. W-Y having the Derelict would be pretty cool.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jul 29, 2015, 12:39:50 AM
I had forgotten about the Arcturians! So many species to play with, not to mention River of Pain making it sound like humans had encountered even more species besides of "Arcturian trade partners."
As far as planets, it would be cool to get some stuff on the Predator homeworld. Maybe an early chapter with it getting attacked or something. It would be cool to have an Alien story set a bit more on Earth. The Invasion and Armageddon subtitles have me sort of hoping we get an Earth Hive type story. I loved that novel when I was younger.
On another note, I'm hoping that this novel gives us our first hints about what they having cooking with Alien 5. I wouldn't expect anything explicit, but I'm going to be scouring it to see if I can catch what Lebbon had to change so as not to contradict the new movie. W-Y having the Derelict would be pretty cool.
Not just River of Pain! In Sea of Sorrows, Decker, upon being informed about the Dog-Alien ruins responds with "so? We've encountered dozens of alien races", key word:
DOZENS! And Rage War is set after Sea of Sorrows! So many possibilities to explore.
River of Pain does mention that not all encounters are friendly, and says how the Marines have got stories to tell of some hostile alien beings. Perhaps this will be explored with the Predators. I wonder if by this period, humans would know about "Yautja"? Or would they still call them Predators? While on this topic, do you think we'll see Predator females? And since this is the Yautja, they're bound to be freakin' scary if they show up during the Rage War.
Yeah, I would love to see a bit of the Predator homeworld. And I am also getting the feeling that this is all gonna end up on Earth, the first synopsis did mention that they're all headed straight for Earth.
Yeah, them having the Derelict would be awesome. Also, what do they plan with the samples they collected from the Dog-Alien ruins? Those buildings and that ship had "DNA".
I would love to see the Engineers in future novels as well. Wow, since Prometheus, the lore just got so much richer for me.
It's definitely neat to watch the myhyology grow. It would be really cool to see W-Y growing bio mechanical xenomorph-ships and weapons. Stuff like the Ripley xenomorph-suit from the Alien 5 concept art or the xenomorph-armor in the Weyland-Yutani Report.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jul 28, 2015, 10:54:31 PM
I know it won't happen, but it would be cool if Rage War took up to LV-223 at some point. Almsot totally unlikely. though, given licensing.
I don't think that's far off at all as Titan has secured the licenses for the 3 franchises (as evidenced by the books). Dark Horse used to have plenty of crossover so it really doesn't seem out there. If the dog-aliens are making an appearance I'd expect to see the planet involved in some fashion, even if it's just a mention.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jul 29, 2015, 01:54:07 AM
It's definitely neat to watch the myhyology grow. It would be really cool to see W-Y growing bio mechanical xenomorph-ships and weapons. Stuff like the Ripley xenomorph-suit from the Alien 5 concept art or the xenomorph-armor in the Weyland-Yutani Report.
That's definitely possible, because when you think about it, everything the Engineers have, we could probably create if give enough time and knowledge. I remember reading somewhere that studying Xenomorphs could help us literally "grow our buildings" rather than build them.
Looking at that quote, the Dog-Aliens seem to grow their ships and buildings. Do you think that this level of technology is a whole new level? That Engineers and Dog-Aliens may be even more advanced than Predators in terms of infrastructure and such? Maybe Yautja are simply more powerful when it comes to weaponry since that's their main focus.
That was the implication I got from Out of the Shadows - that the Dog-aliens technology was organic in nature. I imagined the interiors of Wraith ships from Stargate Atlantis when I read the descriptions.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jul 29, 2015, 06:28:57 PM
That was the implication I got from Out of the Shadows - that the Dog-aliens technology was organic in nature. I imagined the interiors of Wraith ships from Stargate Atlantis when I read the descriptions.
Now I'd like to see humans climb those huge organic stairs in the Dog-Alien ship on screen. Like REALLY climb. ;D Those things were described as freaking huge, which again reminds me of the original Space Jockey and some pictures of Engineers I saw in this Prometheus video where humans only reached up to their knees... good God... I know that was showing some glyphs of them and humans may have been exaggerating, but imagine that size!
Those glyphs were from some Egyptian artwork with Engineers visiting the ancient period as they did during them times. The Engineer was bald but had that Egyptian "beard" extending down his chin and he wore a loincloth in the Egyptian style. It was interesting to see some more Prometheus stuff. If you're wondering which video I am talking about, I think it's the one titled "Prometheus explained with real answers", it's a pretty lengthy one too.
It would be pretty neat if W-Y rolled out some kind of fusion of Dog-Alien and Engineer technology.
My favorite thing, mythology-wise, is in Out of the Shadows when they're in the Dog-Alien pyramid and find all the statues and murals. IIRC, they find one showing them interacting with all sorts of other alien life forms. So much potential going forward.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jul 30, 2015, 04:24:49 PM
It would be pretty neat if W-Y rolled out some kind of fusion of Dog-Alien and Engineer technology.
My favorite thing, mythology-wise, is in Out of the Shadows when they're in the Dog-Alien pyramid and find all the statues and murals. IIRC, they find one showing them interacting with all sorts of other alien life forms. So much potential going forward.
Oh yeah, I remember this. I think it was described as "artwork", also the floor had these colours that would form a bigger picture only appreciated by a really tall creature, and humans weren't tall enough to see the art on the ground they walked on.
One thing that seems to separate Dog-Alien tech from Engineer tech is that some of their walls and the art on the floor seemed to glow as it was approached or touched.
What separated them in my eyes was that the Dog-aliens seemed to be all biological whereas the Engineers are traditional biomechanical (Prometheus' stoney materials being ignored).
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jul 28, 2015, 06:24:52 PM
Flesh and Blood also included Hish but a much more refined and movie-like interpretation of them and it was still a very strong novel. The Predator ones kept getting better and better.
As good as South China Sea?
Nah. I'd say in terms of quality it went in order of release but with a nice jump after Forever Midnight.
I really do need to track down South China Sea. It's a shame how expensive used copies are on Amazon.
On another note, it would also be cool if we got totally surprised and the mystery villain doesn't turn out to be the dog-aliens, but rather some new force. The dog-aliens didn't seem like a conquering culture, just based on what little we saw of their civilization in Out of the Shadows. They seemed more like traders who got overrun by the xenomorphs.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jul 31, 2015, 08:11:55 PM
I really do need to track down South China Sea. It's a shame how expensive used copies are on Amazon.
Holy shit. I just checked eBay to find you some cheap ones and they're f**king pricey on there too! When did that happen? I might have a spare, I'll need to check.
QuoteOn another note, it would also be cool if we got totally surprised and the mystery villain doesn't turn out to be the dog-aliens, but rather some new force. The dog-aliens didn't seem like a conquering culture, just based on what little we saw of their civilization in Out of the Shadows. They seemed more like traders who got overrun by the xenomorphs.
I'd be disappointed if they didn't return in some form though. I hate being introduced to some ancient dead alien race and it never being properly explored.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 03, 2015, 07:33:43 AMHoly shit. I just checked eBay to find you some cheap ones and they're f**king pricey on there too! When did that happen? I might have a spare, I'll need to check.
They've been like it for a while. When I started reading through the
Aliens novels I had a cursory glance at some of the later books that intend to pick up eventually, and for some reason
South China Sea costs a
bomb. It's strange because a bunch of the other DH Press novels are still available new directly from Amazon. They must've printed f*ck-all copies of that last book.
To be fair it took me ages to finally get my initial copies too.
I'm surprised that the Yautja concept is being used. Of course while they are my preferred version, I kind of have this.. distrust.. no, not distrust, but apprehensiveness-- yes, that's the word I want to use, towards anyone else aside from the Perry's writing them.. Although David Bischoff was the exception. I'm not sure what Lebbon has in mind for the Yautja, or what he's going to reference with them but I just hope he doesn't introduce things which conflict with the clan based society and tribal culture or things which take away how unique this race is, now that Prometheus is influencing things.
So I'm not sure what's happening here but I tweeted Tim last night. I asked if he'd read the Perry AvPs in preparation.
He replied: "Nope, this is purely my take. The Aaron-Percival is a ship, by the way!"
One of my followers replied with: "can we expect some stuff from the Predator perspective?"
To which Tim replied: "No, I wanted to keep them very alien."
I don't think they're actually Yautja. I think it's just a marketing f**k up.
Or perhaps that's now just the accepted name for the species, similar to how Sea of Sorrows gave us Xenomorph XX121?
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 06, 2015, 07:40:01 AM
Or perhaps that's now just the accepted name for the species?
Wouldn't surprise me. They use it on all the NECA figures. This makes me sad.
And they used "Yautja" in some behind the scenes stuff for the Predators movie.
So, we won't be seeing Predator pov stuff then, how do you think this will play out? From a purely human standpoint? Like in Out of the Shadows, where there was no Alien pov whatsoever.
It's cool to see them try to keep the Predators 'alien' here and not go into too much detail, I was kinda hoping we'd see their relationships with other races. Maybe the races humans made contact with have had legends or mentioned the Predators, or the humans can mention their past relationships.
So long as the novel is interesting and engaging like the previous Titan books trilogy and the "Aliens: Genocide" books I am reading by David Bischoff, it's really interesting.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 06, 2015, 07:19:39 AM
So I'm not sure what's happening here but I tweeted Tim last night. I asked if he'd read the Perry AvPs in preparation.
He replied: "Nope, this is purely my take. The Aaron-Percival is a ship, by the way!"
So.. he's not really using the Yautja concept, and we're going to be seeing something entirely different? Eeeeeeeeeehhh... I've got some mixed feelings about that but if it's done similarly to how Turnabout or South China Sea was from how I've heard, I might be okay with that. Might be. Thing is.. everyone has their own vision of what the Predators are supposed to be, and not everyone agrees, and this mixed bag just makes it into official material for the most part.
As for the ship being called Aaron-Percival.. Was he joking? I kind of hope that he is joking.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 06, 2015, 07:19:39 AM
One of my followers replied with: "can we expect some stuff from the Predator perspective?"
To which Tim replied: "No, I wanted to keep them very alien."
Again, as long as it's done in the style of Turnabout and South China Sea, I might be okay with that. But again, every writer has their own vision of what the Predators are supposed to be. So it's a mixed bag for me when they try and put their vision out.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 06, 2015, 07:19:39 AM
I don't think they're actually Yautja. I think it's just a marketing f**k up.
Agreed save for one thing.. I don't think it was a marketing muck up, but an intentional marketing ploy to get Yautja fans excited and somehow in more than one way, invested into buying this novel. That's just how marketing works. So really, it's a hook-bait to get Yautja fans lined in and reeled in for a book that has something else in mind.
But I'm wondering if Lebbon will be keeping the honor aspects of the Predator, assuming he's not ditching that.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Aug 06, 2015, 01:59:52 PM
As for the ship being called Aaron-Percival.. Was he joking? I kind of hope that he is joking.
I'm not. I want a f**king ship named after me. xD
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 06, 2015, 07:19:39 AM
Again, as long as it's done in the style of Turnabout and South China Sea, I might be okay with that. But again, every writer has their own vision of what the Predators are supposed to be. So it's a mixed bag for me when they try and put their vision out.
I think the point is we aren't going to get anything like in Turnabout or South China Sea. Nothing from inside the Predator's head.
Quote
So really, it's a hook-bait to get Yautja fans lined in and reeled in for a book that has something else in mind.
Fair point. I think it's just how Fox consider the Predator's now. In terms of name.
QuoteBut I'm wondering if Lebbon will be keeping the honor aspects of the Predator, assuming he's not ditching that.
Depends on your interpretation. I still think they don't have honor.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 06, 2015, 02:27:11 PM
I'm not. I want a f**king ship named after me. xD
If I could post the look on my face.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 06, 2015, 07:19:39 AM
I think the point is we aren't going to get anything like in Turnabout or South China Sea. Nothing from inside the Predator's head.
Well what I mean by refering to Turnabout and South China Sea is the presentation of the Predators. Neither of those novels referred to those Predators as Hish or Yautja, so they could go in either category but.. they still portrayed them as Hunters. Nothing more, nothing less. And I hope that's what we get.. in a way.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 06, 2015, 07:19:39 AM
Fair point. I think it's just how Fox consider the Predator's now. In terms of name.
Maybe so but.. for a lot of people, the Yautja concept isn't really seen as canon. I prefer the Yautja concept, and while I do see it as canon but if you take what was said from Lebbon, and the summary.. well.. story wins out. So, I'm inclined to believe one way or another, we're not getting Yautja. I'm mixed about that, I'm happy but at the same time disappointed.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 06, 2015, 02:27:11 PM
Depends on your interpretation. I still think they don't have honor.
That's the thing, EVERYONE has their own interpretation and sometimes.. that ideology has made it into the official material. Canon or otherwise, that's why we have two different Predators. Yautja and Hish.
Anyway, I shot off two questions for Lebbon, hopefully he'll answer them.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Aug 06, 2015, 02:43:05 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 06, 2015, 02:27:11 PM
I'm not. I want a f**king ship named after me. xD
If I could post the look on my face.
Why do you have to be like this? Why can't I have a ship?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 06, 2015, 07:19:39 AM
Well what I mean by refering to Turnabout and South China Sea is the presentation of the Predators. Neither of those novels referred to those Predators as Hish or Yautja, so they could go in either category but.. they still portrayed them as Hunters. Nothing more, nothing less. And I hope that's what we get.. in a way.
In that case definitely. I like my lethal hunters. If the general feeling of the Predators invokes a sense of Turnabout or SCS I'd be a very very happy reader.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 06, 2015, 07:19:39 AM
Maybe so but.. for a lot of people, the Yautja concept isn't really seen as canon. I prefer the Yautja concept, and while I do see it as canon but if you take what was said from Lebbon, and the summary.. well.. story wins out. So, I'm inclined to believe one way or another, we're not getting Yautja. I'm mixed about that, I'm happy but at the same time disappointed.
That would definitely seem to be the way of it. I'm quite happy personally. I hate getting into their heads.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 06, 2015, 02:27:11 PM
Anyway, I shot off two questions for Lebbon, hopefully he'll answer them.
Please post up any responses. :)
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Aug 06, 2015, 02:43:05 PM
That's the thing, EVERYONE has their own interpretation and sometimes.. that ideology has made it into the official material. Canon or otherwise, that's why we have two different Predators. Yautja and Hish.
You have the Yautja and the Hish because Shirley didn't know about the Yautja.
Sooo... here's me wondering "who is Aaron Percival?"
*Quick google search*
*Finds Hick's Twitter*
Reaction - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL9cM6_qIao
Haha! That made me laugh!
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 06, 2015, 02:27:11 PMI'm not. I want a f**king ship named after me. xD
Wait... It's named after you? Haha! That's freaking epic! Fair play.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 06, 2015, 03:00:58 PM
Haha! That made me laugh!
I was completely taken by surprise. ;D
I hope this ship kicks some butt in the novel.
I wonder if Lebbon will be using some futuristic Conestoga class ships? Or the AvP2010 Bougainville class? (Those ships must be well outdated by the time the Rage War takes place though.)
Or will he use some newer models? I don't expect him to go into too much detail as far as ships are concerned, he might not even mention them like nothing was said of ship models in the Titan books trilogy, which is better as it lets us imagine our own designs.
I absolutely love the ships in the ALIEN universe man, they got some of the best sci fi ships.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 06, 2015, 03:06:20 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 06, 2015, 02:27:11 PMI'm not. I want a f**king ship named after me. xD
Wait... It's named after you? Haha! That's freaking epic! Fair play.
I don't know if he named it after me but it's my name. lol I'm kinda hoping he did. And that he didn't blow it up.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Aug 06, 2015, 03:07:09 PM
I wonder if Lebbon will be using some futuristic Conestoga class ships? Or the AvP2010 Bougainville class? (Those ships must be well outdated by the time the Rage War takes place though.)
Or will he use some newer models? I don't expect him to go into too much detail as far as ships are concerned, he might not even mention them like nothing was said of ship models in the Titan books trilogy, which is better as it lets us imagine our own designs.
I absolutely love the ships in the ALIEN universe man, they got some of the best sci fi ships.
I'd hope it's a brand new ship but I don't expect too much detail in terms of the equipment and ships. Doesn't really seem to be his style.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 06, 2015, 03:07:35 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 06, 2015, 03:06:20 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 06, 2015, 02:27:11 PMI'm not. I want a f**king ship named after me. xD
Wait... It's named after you? Haha! That's freaking epic! Fair play.
I don't know if he named it after me but it's my name. lol I'm kinda hoping he did. And that he didn't blow it up.
"So he doesn't like the Yautja, huh? He doesn't like our honour? He insults the integrity of our culture by not liking the way we think and act? This ship is named after him? BLOW IT UP NOW!" *Evil Predator laugh*
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 06, 2015, 02:56:25 PM
Why do you have to be like this? Why can't I have a ship?
I was kidding, jeeze! :-\
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 06, 2015, 07:19:39 AM
In that case definitely. I like my lethal hunters. If the general feeling of the Predators invokes a sense of Turnabout or SCS I'd be a very very happy reader.
Keep them as Hunters. Not slavers, not conquerors either. Keep them what the first two films established them to be. Simple, and too the point. Nothing more, nothing less. I think we can agree on that.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 06, 2015, 07:19:39 AM
That would definitely seem to be the way of it. I'm quite happy personally. I hate getting into their heads.
The reason why I say I am happy and disappointed is because I am happy that he is not using the Yautja concept incase he does something with the Predators and don't agree with. Therefore, I wouldn't have to count and accept it with things associated with the Yautja. That's incase he screws up... the reason why I am disappointed is if he does something awesome with the Predators, that I happen to agree with, then well.. yeah. It's not the Yautja doing the awesome stuff, just.. something else.
I have a very black and white view when it comes to the presentation of the Predators.
Do I like getting into their heads? Well... it depends on who writes them. Obviously I favor the Perry's version of them and they are what had resonated with me the most. They were portrayed as harsh anti-heroes.. though that should be said for a select few in the novels. I haven't read South China Sea but I heard the flashbacks for the Predator were cool...
I've read some novels where we don't see the perspective of the Predators like Big Game, Concrete Jungle and Cold War. I thought those were pretty damn cool.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 06, 2015, 02:56:25 PM
You have the Yautja and the Hish because Shirley didn't know about the Yautja.
I remember hearing that he was told to ignore what came before. Either way.. we've got two.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 06, 2015, 03:07:35 PMI don't know if he named it after me but it's my name. lol I'm kinda hoping he did. And that he didn't blow it up.
It'd crack me up if it gets taken out in the opening scene, Hicks-in-
Alien 3-style ;D
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Aug 06, 2015, 03:15:06 PM
I remember hearing that he was told to ignore what came before. Either way.. we've got two.
I know your blood is going to boil but -
QuoteAvPGalaxy – One of the more...controversial aspects of Forever Midnight was the reimagination of the Yautja race. The Yautja had become a staple of the Predator society for those who had come through the years with only the novels to offer detailed insight into the Predator culture. Where you aware of how popular the Yautja were when DH Press tasked you with creating a new version of the Predators?
John Shirley – The Predator was popular-but the term " Yautja"? I'd never heard it. And who calls the Predator aliens Yautja? The Predators themselves? It's never explained. I don't remember it from the movies. I took it that the name came from South American Indians talking of them-that it was not their own name. I wasn't aware of Wikipedia at the time I wrote the book or I'd have looked it up there and I see they mention that as the name of the race...and they mention the name of their planet. But they don't seem to know how this is confirmed. I mean, humans don't question Predators that I know of, in the movies, so how did the name get to be known by people? I could also say that there are more than one races of Predators-as they are spread out across the galaxy, presumably that would be the case-and Yautja could be just one of those races, if that is indeed the name they know themselves by. It wasn't in the "bible" I was given that I recall. I wasn't aware of other Predator novels. I assumed all the basic information would be in the "bible", the slim sheaf of pages given me by the publisher to provide basic info on the Predator. What I took from the publisher's bible is that no one knew much about the Predators, their nature or home planet, which made it possible to make things up. To me, the basic place to start is the movies, not every comic ever written about the story-as the comics and books may be in contradiction to one another (same with the Alien stories),. I would also like to mention that my book was checked out by the movie studio and they had no objection to it-they did not say I was using the wrong terms etc. So to me they are the final authority.
AvPGalaxy – The Hish and the Yautja were very different. The Yautja followed the samurai style culture the comics created while the Hish were based more off the movie Predators. What sort of research did you put into creating the Hish?
John Shirley – Why these aliens would have a Samurai style culture I don't know. My job was to write a tie-in TO THE MOVIES. Not a tie in to somebody's comic book version. I simply watched the movies and imagined the race as it might be in a way I thought was entertaining and a bit amusing and exciting. The movies and the "bible" were my research. Again I was told that little was known about them so I assumed that was true. That left little to research.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/website/interviews/john-shirley-2/
So I suppose you can blame Dark Horse for not wanting the Yautja included in the Bible.
Or is it Fox's bible? I can't remember which way round it was.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 06, 2015, 03:24:30 PM
So I suppose you can blame Dark Horse for not wanting the Yautja included in the Bible.
Richardson did say that Dark Horse never really considers or controls what others outside of Dark Horse does with the license when I asked him as Habbufet over at the AMAReddit. So.. I'm not really mad as you think I am. It's just something I've come to accept, so pick and choose.
Also, doesn't Dark Horse have their own in-house Bible and Fox have their own?
That's awesome that you're getting a ship named after you in the novel, Hicks!
It was actually me that responded to your tweet to Lebbon asking if we're getting anything from the Predator perspective. :laugh: I'm glad he's keeping them alien.
Yeah that is pretty cool. Your own little piece of history permanently etched into Alien lore. Nice one.
Got word from Lebbon, he's keeping the honor aspects!
https://mobile.twitter.com/timlebbon/status/629335782273253377
Yeah its a link via mobile but that's because I am using my phone. Hopefully he will answer my other question regarding whether we will get a tribal/clan based society or a.. ugh.. monarchy society.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 06, 2015, 07:40:29 AM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 06, 2015, 07:40:01 AM
Or perhaps that's now just the accepted name for the species?
Wouldn't surprise me. They use it on all the NECA figures. This makes me sad.
I'm not even a big Predator fan and this makes me sad. I can only imagine what it must be doing to you.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Aug 06, 2015, 03:27:46 PM
Richardson did say that Dark Horse never really considers or controls what others outside of Dark Horse does with the license when I asked him as Habbufet over at the AMAReddit.
At the time they would have because Dark Horse Press published the last lot of novels that introduced the Hish.
QuoteAlso, doesn't Dark Horse have their own in-house Bible and Fox have their own?
I honestly can't remember but I think it was both had one.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Aug 06, 2015, 05:18:02 PM
It was actually me that responded to your tweet to Lebbon asking if we're getting anything from the Predator perspective. :laugh: I'm glad he's keeping them alien.
Awesome! I've got a name and face to you!
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 06, 2015, 06:27:27 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 06, 2015, 07:40:29 AM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 06, 2015, 07:40:01 AM
Or perhaps that's now just the accepted name for the species?
Wouldn't surprise me. They use it on all the NECA figures. This makes me sad.
I'm not even a big Predator fan and this makes me sad. I can only imagine what it must be doing to you.
It seems to me that there are Predator fans and Yautja fans. I'm a Predator fan.
So Ultramorph asked this: " Do you think eagle-eyed readers can glean a few details about Alien5 in Predator Incursion? I know you had to change a few things". Tim replied with "VERY eagle-eyed."
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Aug 06, 2015, 05:30:17 PM
Got word from Lebbon, he's keeping the honor aspects!
https://mobile.twitter.com/timlebbon/status/629335782273253377
Yeah its a link via mobile but that's because I am using my phone. Hopefully he will answer my other question regarding whether we will get a tribal/clan based society or a.. ugh.. monarchy society.
https://twitter.com/timlebbon/status/629335782273253377
Thanks for sharing, Hicks! Rest assured that I'll be poring over the novel on day one with my best eagle eyes.
Is this post Sea of Sorrows then? I wonder if Hoop will make a reappearance somehow?
I doubt Hoop will show up as this is set several centuries later. However, Decker may show up.
It's not based on anything, but I feel like Decker won't show up until the second or third book. It's just a feeling I have. I feel like there will be some mystery set up over what W-Y is doing, and Decker will show up when the big reveal happens.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Aug 07, 2015, 09:26:43 PM
Is this post Sea of Sorrows then? I wonder if Hoop will make a reappearance somehow?
I certainly believe its set in the new reset Sea of Sorrows world. I also don't think we'll see Hoop in this but I'm hopeful he'll make a return - maybe in the post-River of Pain stories?
Quote from: Ultramorph on Aug 07, 2015, 10:41:51 PM
It's not based on anything, but I feel like Decker won't show up until the second or third book. It's just a feeling I have. I feel like there will be some mystery set up over what W-Y is doing, and Decker will show up when the big reveal happens.
I imagine when it becomes more apparent that the Aliens are involved Decker might get involved somehow. I forget, did he end up still in the hands of W-Y? I could do with a reread of the books before Incursion.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 08, 2015, 11:34:37 AM
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Aug 07, 2015, 09:26:43 PM
Is this post Sea of Sorrows then? I wonder if Hoop will make a reappearance somehow?
I certainly believe its set in the new reset Sea of Sorrows world. I also don't think we'll see Hoop in this but I'm hopeful he'll make a return - maybe in the post-River of Pain stories?
Quote from: Ultramorph on Aug 07, 2015, 10:41:51 PM
It's not based on anything, but I feel like Decker won't show up until the second or third book. It's just a feeling I have. I feel like there will be some mystery set up over what W-Y is doing, and Decker will show up when the big reveal happens.
I imagine when it becomes more apparent that the Aliens are involved Decker might get involved somehow. I forget, did he end up still in the hands of W-Y? I could do with a reread of the books before Incursion.
Technically, Decker has "done" his part for W-Y, but nothing stops them from getting him back by threatening his family again. Because Decker is a low level empath, so his kids may have inherited it and that's why W-Y wanted him and used Ripley's "debt" as an excuse to threaten him.
And he probably hasn't fully paid it off if they decide to pull that one again.
Speaking of Decker and his slight empathy with the Xenomorphs, I am interested to see if he will be able to sense the Predators in some way. Some characters like Billy sensed them, and an Empath in the Judge Dredd crossover had a connection to the Predator which was explored in an interesting way.
I wonder how Mr. Decker's mild telepathy will play out here. It was well used and didn't feel over-relied upon in Sea of Sorrows which I liked.
Does Sea of Sorrows incorporate Aliens Colonial Marines?
It doesn't mention the events of Colonial Marines one way or another, so it's up for interpretation. I'm not sure if the Weyland-Yutani Report mentions the game or not, but I somehow doubt it.
Quote from: happypred on Aug 09, 2015, 09:19:11 AM
Does Sea of Sorrows incorporate Aliens Colonial Marines?
It doesn't incorporate Colonial Marines, but it does mention Amanda Ripley from Alien Isolation.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Aug 09, 2015, 12:12:46 PM
Quote from: happypred on Aug 09, 2015, 09:19:11 AM
Does Sea of Sorrows incorporate Aliens Colonial Marines?
It doesn't incorporate Colonial Marines, but it does mention Amanda Ripley from Alien Isolation.
Wait really? like, by name? I haven't gotten around to reading Sea of Sorrows yet.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Aug 09, 2015, 02:59:23 PM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Aug 09, 2015, 12:12:46 PM
Quote from: happypred on Aug 09, 2015, 09:19:11 AM
Does Sea of Sorrows incorporate Aliens Colonial Marines?
It doesn't incorporate Colonial Marines, but it does mention Amanda Ripley from Alien Isolation.
Wait really? like, by name? I haven't gotten around to reading Sea of Sorrows yet.
I think so, yeah, Ellen Ripley is definitely mentioned, but I also think Amanda is too.
The company woman in charge mentions them both while explaining how the Ripleys have beaten and survived the Xenos in the past.
It's been a while since I read the books, but I am sure she was name dropped.
I can't remember if she's name dropped or not but they definitely reference Alien Isolation.
She gets mentioned by name, IIRC, and they might even go so far as to say she encountered the xenos herself. My copy is in storage, so I can't verify.
On another note, I can't wait for the inevitable preview!
I'm going to give Out of the Shadows and Sea of Sorrows a re-read over the next few weeks. Get back in the mood and it'll be nice not to read them with my review head on.
Should hopefully have a preview over the coming weeks.
I'm just glad that Titan doesn't seem to be repeating the sins of previous series as far as the dog-aliens and the cliffhanger ending of Sea of Sorrows goes, since it looks like both of those will probably be addressed in Rage War. Whoever is managing the license over at Fox seems to be pretty dedicated to making things add up the last few years.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Aug 09, 2015, 02:59:23 PMWait really? like, by name? I haven't gotten around to reading Sea of Sorrows yet.
Yeah, Rollins mentions that both Ellen and Amanda Ripley previously screwed their plans to nab an Alien.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 08, 2015, 11:34:37 AMI certainly believe its set in the new reset Sea of Sorrows world.
Yeah, can't remember if it was James A. Moore or Tim Lebbon hismelf, but one of them confirmed the new book is post-
Sea of Sorrows.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 08, 2015, 11:34:37 AMI also don't think we'll see Hoop in this but I'm hopeful he'll make a return - maybe in the post-River of Pain stories?
Unlikely we'll see Hoop, given the vast time gap (300 years?) between when he was last seen. Also, Hoop was the
Out of the Shadows survivor. Are you confusing him with Captain Brackett, who was left hanging after
River of Pain?
Too many loose ends :)
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 08, 2015, 11:34:37 AMI forget, did he end up still in the hands of W-Y?
He was on the W-Y ship at the end, being taken home.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 10, 2015, 07:32:06 AM
Yeah, can't remember if it was James A. Moore or Tim Lebbon hismelf, but one of them confirmed the new book is post-Sea of Sorrows.
Must have been James. His is the only one we don't have written up and I can't see it in the others.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 08, 2015, 11:34:37 AM
Also, Hoop was the Out of the Shadows survivor. Are you confusing him with Captain Brackett, who was left hanging after River of Pain?
Too many loose ends :)
Sorry, I should have been clearler. I'm not getting mixed up - just thought it was more likely he'd show up in that time period ala Ripley's drifting. Of course, supposition on my part but just seemed likely to me he'd end up teaming up with Brackett.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 08, 2015, 11:34:37 AM
He was on the W-Y ship at the end, being taken home.
Thought so. So it's not beyond reasoning to think they've still got easy access to Decker and he could quite easily end up in Rage Wars.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 10, 2015, 08:35:10 AMMust have been James. His is the only one we don't have written up and I can't see it in the others.
Don't think it was on here actually, it was on the Alien Legacy forums. The author himself came on and answered a few questions. Thinking about it, I'm fairly sure it was Moore.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 10, 2015, 09:02:02 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 10, 2015, 08:35:10 AMMust have been James. His is the only one we don't have written up and I can't see it in the others.
Don't think it was on here actually, it was on the Alien Legacy forums. The author himself came on and answered a few questions. Thinking about it, I'm fairly sure it was Moore.
You're right. Just been checking back over the threads.
If I remember correctly, this is the first time where predators actually entered the Alien film series continuity. The original AVP series basically ran parallel to the film continuity. I am pretty sure that directors like Ridley Scott and Neill Blomkamp will not venture into predator territory so I get the feeling that this series of books will be another orphan child. I'm of with a separate post-resurrection continuity which brings in predators, but if Blomkamp takes a different tangent, then I hope predators will never enter the Alien universe. Just such a different vibe. Don't get me wrong. In 1992 I loved the original AVP idea, but its been done so poorly over the years in film and the Prometheus idea was so good that I'm basically done with predators. Predators in the Alien universe are like Donald Trump in the Republican Party.
According to the Wey-Yu book, the Predators have already been in the canon with the fire and stone stories.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Aug 11, 2015, 02:54:44 PM
According to the Wey-Yu book, the Predators have already been in the canon with the fire and stone stories.
Do they really mention predators? That's just dumb. Let the series be separate.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 11, 2015, 03:35:19 PMDo they really mention predators? That's just dumb. Let the series be separate.
No, but it mentions that
Aliens: Fire and Stone happened, therefore
Predator: Fire and Stone happened.
Hmm, well I guess its all going to unhappen when Alien 5 comes out... ;)
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 11, 2015, 03:49:45 PM
Hmm, well I guess its all going to unhappen when Alien 5 comes out... ;)
I wouldn't necessarily bet on that. Lebbon made small changes to
Rage War to stay in line with Alien 5, and if
Rage War stays in canon with the new movie, then tracing back the line of canon,
Fire and Stone stays canon, as well. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out in the end.
This discussion reminds me a lot of how Star Wars just reset their canon with the Legends continuity, of course I like what AVP is doing by just making it separate universes instead of just throwing out all its previous work.
Agreed. I like the idea of separate universes/continuities, it makes things easier and everything has a place.
Getting pretty excited for this book as we get closer.
Separate universes and continuities are the way to go. They allows for us to explore the "what if?" scenario. I personally hope we get a proper sequel to the original Aliens series of comics from Dark Horse. It would be great if they picked up after Aliens Book 2 (Verheiden / Beauvais). Why not?
MULTIVERSE!! ;D
GIVE US A MULTIVERSE!!
I can't wait for this series to start. I enjoyed the last set, so I have high hopes this one will be just as entertaining.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Aug 16, 2015, 01:38:23 AM
MULTIVERSE!! ;D
GIVE US A MULTIVERSE!!
YEAH!!! MULTIVERSE BABY!!!! WOOT!!!!
I feel like I'm the only one who is not too keen on the whole multiverse idea. I'd rather that be left to Marvel, DC and Star Trek.
But I am not too bothered by it. I just like the idea of everything being in one giant universe, yet that opens the doors to so many inconsistencies and continuity errors.
I just feel that if we get a multiverse, it might weaken the species in some way. What Aliens and Predators achieve in one medium will not apply to the next.
Technically, we kinda have it anyway thanks to Forever Midnight.
So, do the Yautja have the Hish's planet destroying cannons I read about from Xenopedia? ;D
I can appreciate the concerns and share them, but this is already de facto. We have the original Aliens graphic novels with elephant nosed aliens and we have the engineers. Hence we have a multiverse.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Aug 16, 2015, 07:16:26 PM
So, do the Yautja have the Hish's planet destroying cannons I read about from Xenopedia? ;D
That's seriously a thing on that site? :-\
I like the idea of a multiverse because it allows content creators to go in various directions, and presents endless variations. Also it gives fans different paths to follow, I mean even if it isn't explicitly stated, we may have one and I welcome it. Everything and everyone would be validated, nothing and no one would be "wrong".
Fans can have their classic AvP without Super Predators and Engineers along with a desolate and visceral universe , an fans can have the new AvP with Super Predators and Engineers with a occupied and more cerebral universe.
I welcome a multiverse. It also gives fans the email chance to play with the canon.
The multiverse is good by me. It serves the Godzilla franchise well.
On another note, now that it's sort of starting to look confirmed that Blomkamp wants his movie to be separate from the third and fourth films, I wonder if Rage War will wind up being the end of the Resurrection-verse. Alien vs Predator: Armageddon certainly sounds pretty conclusive.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Aug 16, 2015, 07:16:26 PM
I feel like I'm the only one who is not too keen on the whole multiverse idea. I'd rather that be left to Marvel, DC and Star Trek.
I just feel that if we get a multiverse, it might weaken the species in some way. What Aliens and Predators achieve in one medium will not apply to the next.
I'm the same. I don't want it.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 16, 2015, 08:50:44 PM
I can appreciate the concerns and share them, but this is already de facto. We have the original Aliens graphic novels with elephant nosed aliens and we have the engineers. Hence we have a multiverse.
Not really as ever since the retcon those entries haven't been followed. It was less of a creation of a multiverse and more of a fix the current continuity.
I can see how some people would want a multiverse, but to me, it feels a bit lazy on the writer's part.
"Something makes no sense? It happened in a different reality."
I don't know, it feels like we suddenly put time travel in this franchise, time travel works great in Terminator, but I can't see it working with Alien and Predator. Similar with how multiple dimensions works well with Star Trek, it doesn't seem to fit with a grounded and harder sci fi that is this one.
Just like Hicks said, they should just try to fix continuity errors rather than just wipe them out. They did the right thing with the name changes in the old novels to incorporate Alien 3. (Quick question about A3 since I hear this whole "teleporting egg" scene, do we actually see an egg on the Sulaco? Or is it just a Facehugger?)
And Ultramorph, I agree that it benefits Godzilla well, but that's because Toho doesn't seem to be sure in which direction to take their franchise, the Showa era is a great example of him being a kid friendly hero in one film then a destructive anti-hero in another to a full blown villain in the next one.
Another cause for concern about retconing is look at how it affected Star Wars, a lot of people got upset that a huge portion of their favourite stories are now redundant thanks to the new Disney canon.
I'd rather they simply say "we won't be mentioning old stories, they happened in the past. This is a new and refreshing start", like look at Rage War, it's set centuries after Resurrection, so it's a new chapter and it would be pretty hard to contradict previous stuff as it's centuries later.
I think Predators had the right idea by simply ignoring everything and just mentioning Predator, it didn't feel like a separate universe, heck, the Predator changes visions, where else do they change visions? Predator 2 and AvP (the foot print vision is used as well)
Keeping things in a single universe and adding to it enriches it more for me, and a multiverse takes away from that enrichment.
But if they do officially confirm a Multiverse, then oh well. I'll try to find some ways to put it all back in one universe in my headcanon. ;D
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Aug 17, 2015, 10:23:59 AMI can see how some people would want a multiverse, but to me, it feels a bit lazy on the writer's part.
Yeah, it jsut doesn't seem appropriate for the
Alien series, given how the films are far more grounded in reality. It feels like the kind of thing that should be left to superhero fluff or
Star Trek.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Aug 17, 2015, 10:23:59 AM
Just like Hicks said, they should just try to fix continuity errors rather than just wipe them out. They did the right thing with the name changes in the old novels to incorporate Alien 3. (Quick question about A3 since I hear this whole "teleporting egg" scene, do we actually see an egg on the Sulaco? Or is it just a Facehugger?)
Haven't you seen Alien 3? You see the egg somewhere near a strut that says Sulaco.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 17, 2015, 10:38:35 AM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Aug 17, 2015, 10:23:59 AMI can see how some people would want a multiverse, but to me, it feels a bit lazy on the writer's part.
Yeah, it jsut doesn't seem appropriate for the Alien series, given how the films are far more grounded in reality. It feels like the kind of thing that should be left to superhero fluff or Star Trek.
Pretty much the entire reason I dislike it too.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 17, 2015, 10:38:35 AM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Aug 17, 2015, 10:23:59 AMI can see how some people would want a multiverse, but to me, it feels a bit lazy on the writer's part.
Yeah, it jsut doesn't seem appropriate for the Alien series, given how the films are far more grounded in reality. It feels like the kind of thing that should be left to superhero fluff or Star Trek.
Exactly, Huda, the multiverse stuff takes away from the uniqueness of Alien and Predator as it's being done a lot.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 17, 2015, 11:08:39 AM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Aug 17, 2015, 10:23:59 AM
Just like Hicks said, they should just try to fix continuity errors rather than just wipe them out. They did the right thing with the name changes in the old novels to incorporate Alien 3. (Quick question about A3 since I hear this whole "teleporting egg" scene, do we actually see an egg on the Sulaco? Or is it just a Facehugger?)
Haven't you seen Alien 3? You see the egg somewhere near a strut that says Sulaco.
It's been ages since I've watched Alien 3. I only remember the Facehugger. :-[ Thanks for clearing it up. That's just something we can honestly call a "movie mistake/blooper", and lots of films have them. It can be easily ignored and won't have an effect on the overall story.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Aug 17, 2015, 10:23:59 AM
But if they do officially confirm a Multiverse, then oh well. I'll try to find some ways to put it all back in one universe in my headcanon. ;D
Headcanon! Love it! made me giggle.. :D
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 17, 2015, 03:14:58 PM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Aug 17, 2015, 10:23:59 AM
But if they do officially confirm a Multiverse, then oh well. I'll try to find some ways to put it all back in one universe in my headcanon. ;D
Headcanon! Love it! made me giggle.. :D
Ha ha! ;D Headcanons = everyone wins!
I can't wait for this novel! I really enjoyed the last Trilogy. ;D
P.S. I also hate the idea of an alien multiverse :-* even more than the stupid A3 (and A:Rez) retcon... :'(
There is no pleasing people. You've got people who don't want the new Alien Sequel to ignore Alien 3 and Resurrection, but in that context.. not counting time travel, clones, synthetics.. how can the reconciliation of the sequels happen if Blomkamp wants to willingly ignore it? Then you got the folks who do want it retconned..
A multiverse doesn't need to be openly and explicitly stated. A lot of franchises have alternate canons but they don't state they are multiverses or alternative timelines. They're just different interpretive paths of pre-existing material. So I don't see any harm to the mythology if there is more than one canon.
To the naysayers, I don't see what you're seeing as bad. To me it just comes off as just simply "Because I don't want one." Nothing more, nothing less. And the whole hard realism sci-fi reasoning? Everytime I hear it, it peeves me a bit because I do not see it as a good enough reason.
Not everything fits.. it has to go somewhere and I know not a lot of us want a single thing to go to merely oblivion.
Well said Sir. Go multiverse!
Just to check: so far, in the "new" Alien/Predator/Prometheus canon, the official canon includes:
Films:
Alien
Aliens
Prometheus
Predator
Books:
Alien: Out of the Shadows
Alien: Sea of Sorrows
Alien: River of Pain
Games:
Alien Isolation
Comics:
Aliens: Fire and Stone
Predator: Fire and Stone
Prometheus: Fire and Stone
Alien vs. Predator: Fire and Stone
Alien Isolation tie-in comic
Am I missing anything? I know that there's debate about Aliens: Colonial Marines, although things seem to be leaning in the "no" direction for that game; and The Rage War Trilogy will obviously fit in, once they're released. I haven't been able to afford a copy of The Weyland-Yutani Report–seriously, what gives with the price?–but from what I've read, it seems to be a pretty solid "record" of the new canon.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 17, 2015, 07:49:06 AM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Aug 16, 2015, 07:16:26 PM
I feel like I'm the only one who is not too keen on the whole multiverse idea. I'd rather that be left to Marvel, DC and Star Trek.
I just feel that if we get a multiverse, it might weaken the species in some way. What Aliens and Predators achieve in one medium will not apply to the next.
I'm the same. I don't want it.
Ditto on this. I'm pretty disheartened to learn that Blomkamp's movie is apparently going to force the multiverse/alternate timeline angle, I always found the A/P/AvP universe much more interesting when it was exactly that: a universe (singular).
Well Mr. Delamarggio, (I can use your name here, right?) we don't know what is going on here. Apparently statements are going back and forth if it's a retcon or not, even with Biehn's recent quote. For all we know, Blomkamp could be going the Bobby Ewing route.
Which I hope he doesn't because that's an easy but very stupid and insulting cop out.
I really don't want this:
If you're going to use it, at least spell it right (Dellamarggio). ;)
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Aug 18, 2015, 03:40:32 AM
Well Mr. Delamarggio, (I can use your name here, right?) we don't know what is going on here. Apparently statements are going back and forth if it's a retcon or not, even with Biehn's recent quote. For all we know, Blomkamp could be going the Bobby Ewing route.
Doesn't matter now you've put it. >:( You should ask that kind of thing in private before hand.
Quote from: Bkbboy on Aug 18, 2015, 01:08:15 AM
Just to check: so far, in the "new" Alien/Predator/Prometheus canon, the official canon includes:
Films:
Alien
Aliens
Prometheus
Predator
Books:
Alien: Out of the Shadows
Alien: Sea of Sorrows
Alien: River of Pain
Games:
Alien Isolation
Comics:
Aliens: Fire and Stone
Predator: Fire and Stone
Prometheus: Fire and Stone
Alien vs. Predator: Fire and Stone
Alien Isolation tie-in comic
Am I missing anything? I know that there's debate about Aliens: Colonial Marines, although things seem to be leaning in the "no" direction for that game; and The Rage War Trilogy will obviously fit in, once they're released. I haven't been able to afford a copy of The Weyland-Yutani Report–seriously, what gives with the price?–but from what I've read, it seems to be a pretty solid "record" of the new canon.
The other Predator movies might still be canon, I haven't heard any word about their canon status in the new universe (assuming we have a new universe). A:CM is technically canon but it has heavy ties with Alien 3 so therefore its canon status in the new universe is as relevant as Alien 3's, which is nonexistent.
The new film is just another sequel. No reboot. So it's still Predator, Predator 2, Predators and then Predator 4.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Aug 17, 2015, 11:46:38 PM
There is no pleasing people. You've got people who don't want the new Alien Sequel to ignore Alien 3 and Resurrection, but in that context.. not counting time travel, clones, synthetics.. how can the reconciliation of the sequels happen if Blomkamp wants to willingly ignore it? Then you got the folks who do want it retconned..
A multiverse doesn't need to be openly and explicitly stated. A lot of franchises have alternate canons but they don't state they are multiverses or alternative timelines. They're just different interpretive paths of pre-existing material. So I don't see any harm to the mythology if there is more than one canon.
To the naysayers, I don't see what you're seeing as bad. To me it just comes off as just simply "Because I don't want one." Nothing more, nothing less. And the whole hard realism sci-fi reasoning? Everytime I hear it, it peeves me a bit because I do not see it as a good enough reason.
Not everything fits.. it has to go somewhere and I know not a lot of us want a single thing to go to merely oblivion.
That was a pet peeve for me because by that logic, we might as well throw in some lightsabres and the Force while we're at it... I mean, those can easily fit. Let a Predator force choke someone. Because "hard sci fi" is not a good enough reason to not include telekinetic magical abilities.
The Multiverse thing does not fit BECAUSE this is a hard sci fi.
I am so glad Shane Black understands that this franchise is filled with so much rich lore, that he wants to expand on something existing rather than being lazy and going "lol nope, didn't happen, let's piss off a couple of fans and press the restart button!"
Why can't Blomkamp just use what's already existing? He can easily fulfil his childhood dream with a movie about Colonial Marines and another strong female character. We don't always need the almighty holy omnipotent Ripley... someone on this forum said how Predator relies on Alien for success, well Alien relies on Ellen Ripley (more like OVER-relies) for success... do you know how FRESH the air would taste once a well done Alien movie without Ripley comes out? (Don't get me wrong, I like Ripley. But too many encounters just goes way beyond mere coincidence...)
It's like Shane Black going "right, we're gonna bring back Dutch, Mac, Dillon and the goddamn sexual tyrannosaurus because WHY NOT?"
Can't they know that fans have this thing called a "headcanon", they like to cherry pick? Like you cherry pick your Yautja stuff over the Hish. And here's the beauty, you ignoring the Hish novels does not impact the larger franchise for you, it's not blatantly said "this is an alternative reality", it leaves it up to us to decide that and everyone is right in the end.
Some can incorporate Hish and Yautja, some can completely ignore the EU and just like the films and so on. Some like Predxeno and myself can enjoy a huge portion of the EU and imagine it as one singular universe with a detailed history.
This franchise has some good self contained stories, you don't like? Ignore. Don't need to be told it's alternative reality.
So what if someone doesn't like the new universe? Do they give up their fan badge and stick with the old and possibly discontinued stuff?
Or would it be better to focus on self contained and easily ignorable stories? And leave the films as a more important chain of continuity?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 18, 2015, 04:30:27 PM
The new film is just another sequel. No reboot. So it's still Predator, Predator 2, Predators and then Predator 4.
Then where does this leave the AvP films if the Word of God trope is not accounted for, as well as the Weyland Corp timeline?
The fuse has been lit on my head-canon and its about to go off! What a mess of a franchise. But honestly, I love all the little separate avenues that the various timelines can go down. I just wish we could all come to grips with the fact that this is fiction and enjoy the various alternate realities that writes come up with for us.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 18, 2015, 08:22:54 PM
The fuse has been lit on my head-canon and its about to go off! What a mess of a franchise. But honestly, I love all the little separate avenues that the various timelines can go down. I just wish we could all come to grips with the fact that this is fiction and enjoy the various alternate realities that writes come up with for us.
A year ago, I took on a project which was supposed to explain how an AvP multiverse sorted things out but I dropped the idea as I lost motivation to do it.
All in all, I especially agree with your last sentence. I mean, assuming Blomkamp does ignore Alien 3 and Resurrection, then a retcon was going to be inevitable. Usually in franchises, they are.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Aug 18, 2015, 08:14:45 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 18, 2015, 04:30:27 PM
The new film is just another sequel. No reboot. So it's still Predator, Predator 2, Predators and then Predator 4.
Then where does this leave the AvP films if the Word of God trope is not accounted for, as well as the Weyland Corp timeline?
The W-Y Timeline is just press stuff and I have no idea why you're bringing this up in response to me saying Predator 4 isn't going to be a reboot...?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 18, 2015, 08:50:25 PM
The W-Y Timeline is just press stuff and I have no idea why you're bringing this up in response to me saying Predator 4 isn't going to be a reboot...?
Because as you said before, the Weyland Corp timeline is press stuff and generally should be discounted, and that AVP can still fit with PREDATORS and perhaps by proxy, Shane's movie.
I'm asking a legit question is all.
Aside from the Weyland issue I'm sure they can fit in there. However, Ridley has no intention of considering them part of his continuity.
It's a shame that we still have a month to wait for this book. I might have to pick up the last few DHP Aliens novels to tide me over.
I just hope we don't get mole-people Arctutians or Larry the Giff! :laugh:
"Current" canon is:
Prometheus (including a lot of the "press" stuff)
Alien
Isolation
Out Of The Shadows
Aliens
River of Pain
Fire & Stone
Alien3
More Fire & Stone
Alien Resurrection
Sea of Sorrows (not referenced in WYR, but is a given)
Quote from: SM on Aug 18, 2015, 10:17:09 PM
"Current" canon is:
Prometheus (including a lot of the "press" stuff)
Alien
Isolation
Out Of The Shadows
Aliens
River of Pain
Fire & Stone
Alien3
More Fire & Stone
Alien Resurrection
Sea of Sorrows (not referenced in WYR, but is a given)
Is this in order of events? I thought river of pain took place before the marines showed up in aliens (obviously, there's some overlap here). What about newt's tale? I remember hearing somewhere (podcast, maybe?) that the author of river of pain used elements from newt's tale because the added story components fit very well, and he didn't want to undo/contradict that...
What about original sin?
Original Sin doesn't fit in light of things like Prometheus and Isolation.
River of Pain runs concurrent with the events in Aliens - but mostly happens in the time between the inquiry and the Sulaco leaving Gateway.
It does draw on Newt's Tale for some background and characters, but mostly goes in its own direction.
I know in another thread you mentioned that Fire and Stone vaguely references AvP (presumably the Blood Rite mark) and therefore AvP happened too but... Sebela did say he didn't consider the films to be canon with his story, so.. kind of tricky there, SM.
I think I said that the WYR references AvP due to the fact that Fire & Stone has an AvP run.
Quote from: SM on Aug 18, 2015, 10:17:09 PM
Prometheus (including a lot of the "press" stuff)
I remember you being the one shooting this down when it came out. Is this down to the inclusion of some aspects of the Timeline in the WYR?
QuoteSea of Sorrows (not referenced in WYR, but is a given)
I personally thought the downfall of the corporations as explained in WYR tied into the background given in Sea of Sorrows.
Quote from: SM on Aug 19, 2015, 04:28:40 AM
I think I said that the WYR references AvP due to the fact that Fire & Stone has an AvP run.
Indeed. There's absolutely no mention of the AvP films or other media in there. Just a mention of the Fire and Stone mission.
Fire and Stone never references the AVP movies directly but it's obvious that it took inspiration from them the same way the Aliens and Predator arcs took inspiration from their respective franchises.
I wouldn't say that. It just uses the blooding mark which originally came from the first comic.
Quote from: SM on Aug 19, 2015, 04:28:40 AMI think I said that the WYR references AvP due to the fact that Fire & Stone has an AvP run.
The report does mention a "Charles Weyland" as being a previous CEO of the company. I found that a bit strange because the report also makes it very clear Peter was the guy who set up the company in the mid-21st century, which would contradict
AVP as the film otherwise suggests the company existed before it got founded.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 19, 2015, 07:05:06 AMI personally thought the downfall of the corporations as explained in WYR tied into the background given in Sea of Sorrows.
It does. Also, didn't
Sea of Sorrows also mention a company report on the Xenomorph, ostensibly being the
W-Y Report itself? I remember someone mentioning that on here.
QuoteI remember you being the one shooting this down when it came out. Is this down to the inclusion of some aspects of the Timeline in the WYR?
There's some obvious errors in the Weyland Timeline (mining distant planets before an FTL ship is built), but the WYR references things like hypersleep, FTL technology, androids, terraforming etc with dates that match the timeline.
QuoteI personally thought the downfall of the corporations as explained in WYR tied into the background given in Sea of Sorrows.
It does, but there's no direct reference to Sea of Sorrows as it occurs a long while after WYR.
QuoteThe report does mention a "Charles Weyland" as being a previous CEO of the company. I found that a bit strange because the report also makes it very clear Peter was the guy who set up the company in the mid-21st century, which would contradict AVP as the film otherwise suggests the company existed before it got founded.
I think that's an error. It doesn't fit the context in which it's presented.
Quote
It does. Also, didn't Sea of Sorrows also mention a company report on the Xenomorph, ostensibly being the W-Y Report itself? I remember someone mentioning that on here.
I got the feeling it was talking about the WYR when I read it too. I'll be re-reading SoS again shortly and will check.
Quote from: SM on Aug 19, 2015, 08:35:46 AMI think that's an error. It doesn't fit the context in which it's presented.
I kinda took it to be a little Easter egg, not necessarily meant to be literal. Kinda like how the V8 Interceptor turns up in a garage in
Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome even though it was blown to pieces in the previous movie. It's just there as an inside joke.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 19, 2015, 07:48:59 AM
It does. Also, didn't Sea of Sorrows also mention a company report on the Xenomorph, ostensibly being the W-Y Report itself? I remember someone mentioning that on here.
I remember Rollins handing the Marines a classified file on the Xenomorphs, and it referred to them as "Xenomorph XX121", just as it apparently does in the W-Y report. She also mentioned that after they read it, the files would be wiped. Which implied that at the time of Sea of Sorrows (year 2497) the files were not accessible to the public.
Quote from: SM on Aug 19, 2015, 08:35:46 AM
There's some obvious errors in the Weyland Timeline (mining distant planets before an FTL ship is built), but the WYR references things like hypersleep, FTL technology, androids, terraforming etc with dates that match the timeline.
So that seem more like specific elements of the publicity material is "canon" - just what's in the Timeline?
Nah everthing seems like a continuity mess at the moment... I will just stick to my personal canon.
Quote from: Samhain13 on Aug 19, 2015, 03:30:39 PM
Nah everthing seems like a continuity mess at the moment... I will just stick to my personal canon.
Best thing to do really. I got my own personal canon too and am happy with it.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 19, 2015, 07:34:04 AM
I wouldn't say that. It just uses the blooding mark which originally came from the first comic.
Yeah, but the reason the blooding even made it into the Fire and Stone comic series is because the movies familiarized the audience with it. There are so many other plot points from the Aliens and Predator comic series that never made it into F&S; the Aliens being worshipped as gods due to their psychic communications with humans and how drinking the Predators' blood drastically extends your lifespan by centuries.
Considering that F&S is focused on Prometheus which in turn is focused on gods and the quest for immortality, these plot points would have made excellent storylines in F&S, however it's clear that the reason these comic book plots were not included while blooding was is because the movies never familiarized audiences with them while blooding is featured prominently in the 1st AVP film.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Aug 19, 2015, 04:58:02 PM
Quote from: Samhain13 on Aug 19, 2015, 03:30:39 PM
Nah everthing seems like a continuity mess at the moment... I will just stick to my personal canon.
Best thing to do really. I got my own personal canon too and am happy with it.
Same here.. I even plan on doing my own personal reboot Alien-Predator with it's own established timeline, where it's more or less something of an AU. Even contemplated on giving it the name of "Ultimate AVP", similarly to the now defunct Ultimate Marvel.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Aug 19, 2015, 05:27:38 PM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Aug 19, 2015, 04:58:02 PM
Quote from: Samhain13 on Aug 19, 2015, 03:30:39 PM
Nah everthing seems like a continuity mess at the moment... I will just stick to my personal canon.
Best thing to do really. I got my own personal canon too and am happy with it.
Same here.. I even plan on doing my own personal reboot Alien-Predator with it's own established timeline, where it's more or less something of an AU. Even contemplated on giving it the name of "Ultimate AVP", similarly to the now defunct Ultimate Marvel.
That's nice. ;D
I love doing little head-timelines.
Quote from: predxeno on Aug 19, 2015, 05:18:05 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 19, 2015, 07:34:04 AM
I wouldn't say that. It just uses the blooding mark which originally came from the first comic.
Yeah, but the reason the blooding even made it into the Fire and Stone comic series is because the movies familiarized the audience with it. There are so many other plot points from the Aliens and Predator comic series that never made it into F&S; the Aliens being worshipped as gods due to their psychic communications with humans and how drinking the Predators' blood drastically extends your lifespan by centuries.
Considering that F&S is focused on Prometheus which in turn is focused on gods and the quest for immortality, these plot points would have made excellent storylines in F&S, however it's clear that the reason these comic book plots were not included while blooding was is because the movies never familiarized audiences with them while blooding is featured prominently in the 1st AVP film.
The Predator blood extending someone's lifespan would've been an interesting plot point as you said. I think you've made a good point about the movie familiarizing the audiences with the blooding.
Also, didn't the "scar" resemble that of the AvP clan's mark? I haven't read the comics but I do think I saw Ahab's and Elden's marks from some pics somewhere on the internet.
Yes, in some of the comics the scar was the same from the movies but in other comics it somehow changed.
Quote from: predxeno on Aug 19, 2015, 06:15:59 PM
Yes, in some of the comics the scar was the same from the movies but in other comics it somehow changed.
A wizard did it.
Quote from: predxeno on Aug 19, 2015, 05:18:05 PM
Yeah, but the reason the blooding even made it into the Fire and Stone comic series is because the movies familiarized the audience with it. There are so many other plot points from the Aliens and Predator comic series that never made it into F&S; the Aliens being worshipped as gods due to their psychic communications with humans and how drinking the Predators' blood drastically extends your lifespan by centuries.
The blooding aspect is there because it a fundamental part of the Alien vs. Predator comics. It was there in the beginning and it will be there until the end. It's one of the core aspects of the license.
Then the question remains why weren't any of the other "fundamental" parts of the Aliens and Predator comics included in F&S. Contrary to popular belief, blooding isn't all that integral to the series at all; multiple video games don't even mention it and the majority of the AVP comics simply ignore it.
It's been awhile but wasn't there an interview done earlier where the writers said that F&S was supposed to be a reboot of some kind? That's why they didn't mention any of the earlier comics EU.
Quote from: predxeno on Aug 19, 2015, 07:25:11 PM
It's been awhile but wasn't there an interview done earlier where the writers said that F&S was supposed to be a reboot of some kind? That's why they didn't mention any of the earlier comics EU.
Scott Allie did say it was a hard reboot. Mike Richardson further corroborated this when he said that they were starting over.. But hell, people will more or less take what they will so... whatever, I guess.
Quote from: predxeno on Aug 19, 2015, 07:25:11 PM
Then the question remains why weren't any of the other "fundamental" parts of the Aliens and Predator comics included in F&S. Contrary to popular belief, blooding isn't all that integral to the series at all; multiple video games don't even mention it and the majority of the AVP comics simply ignore it.
The fundamental aspects of the other series are there. The other points you mentioned earlier aren't core things associated to the licenses.
I'm just saying that I don't think it is there as a tip of the hat to the films. Just to an element that is quite core to the idea of AvP.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 19, 2015, 08:07:24 PM
Quote from: predxeno on Aug 19, 2015, 07:25:11 PM
Then the question remains why weren't any of the other "fundamental" parts of the Aliens and Predator comics included in F&S. Contrary to popular belief, blooding isn't all that integral to the series at all; multiple video games don't even mention it and the majority of the AVP comics simply ignore it.
The fundamental aspects of the other series are there. The other points you mentioned earlier aren't core things associated to the licenses.
I'm just saying that I don't think it is there as a tip of the hat to the films. Just to an element that is quite core to the idea of AvP.
100% agree. Blooding was a comic book thing ages before the films came out. The films in their entirety were a tip of the hat to the comics.
If you want to decorate it like that then yes you are right; the comics were the ones who created the concept of blooding and the first AVP film copied that idea so much I'm surprised Paul W. Anderson wasn't sued for copyright issues. However, it can definitely be said that if the first AVP movie didn't include the concept of blooding at all then Fire and Stone wouldn't have featured it in its storyline either. As Rakai-Thwei confirmed for us, the writers wanted Fire and Stone to be a reboot of sorts and that's why none of the previous comics were even referenced. The AVP movies served as a bridge that connected the earlier comics to Fire and Stone, that's why it is an integral part of Fire and Stone's development.
QuoteSo that seem more like specific elements of the publicity material is "canon" - just what's in the Timeline?
Depends if you want to go through the site line by line I suppose. The bit with with the all the different planets that've been colonised with their distances from Earth it fraught with errors. A lot of the other stuff - not so much. I'd say weylandindustries.com is all canon except for the bits that aren't.
QuoteNah everthing seems like a continuity mess at the moment...
It's the most coherent it's been in a long time.
QuoteIf you want to decorate it like that then yes you are right; the comics were the ones who created the concept of blooding and the first AVP film copied that idea so much I'm surprised Paul W. Anderson wasn't sued for copyright issues.
Who is going to sue whom? Anderson said he used the comics as inspiration. Fox owns the licensed IP for both film and comic. Are they going to sue themselves?
QuoteHowever, it can definitely be said that if the first AVP movie didn't include the concept of blooding at all then Fire and Stone wouldn't have featured it in its storyline either.
A concept - derived from real life blooding rituals - first presented in the comics, is depicted again in the comics. How is that "definitely" tied to the movie that copied the comic?
Quote from: SM on Aug 19, 2015, 10:03:29 PM
QuoteIf you want to decorate it like that then yes you are right; the comics were the ones who created the concept of blooding and the first AVP film copied that idea so much I'm surprised Paul W. Anderson wasn't sued for copyright issues.
Who is going to sue whom? Anderson said he used the comics as inspiration. Fox owns the licensed IP for both film and comic. Are they going to sue themselves?
It was a joke, get a sense of humor.
Quote from: SM on Aug 19, 2015, 10:03:29 PM
QuoteHowever, it can definitely be said that if the first AVP movie didn't include the concept of blooding at all then Fire and Stone wouldn't have featured it in its storyline either.
A concept - derived from real life blooding rituals - first presented in the comics, is depicted again in the comics. How is that "definitely" tied to the movie that copied the comic?
I already mentioned how in my last post.
Sorry I can't see where you've mentioned how it's "definite". Could you please repeat it?
Quote from: predxeno on Aug 19, 2015, 08:47:40 PM
However, it can definitely be said that if the first AVP movie didn't include the concept of blooding at all then Fire and Stone wouldn't have featured it in its storyline either. As Rakai-Thwei confirmed for us, the writers wanted Fire and Stone to be a reboot of sorts and that's why none of the previous comics were even referenced. The AVP movies served as a bridge that connected the earlier comics to Fire and Stone, that's why it is an integral part of Fire and Stone's development.
Fire and Stone was a reboot, that's why none of the original plot lines from the previous comic EU were featured or even referenced, the blooding from AVP is the sole exception. If the AVP movies never existed then the blooding never would have been featured in Fire and Stone; the idea may have originated in the comics but it was the movies that publicized it and that's what made it possible for the concept to exist in Fire and Stone.
I still don't see how that's a "definite" nod to the films. As Hicks mentioned I think, if anything, it's a nod to the earlier comics that invented the concept and has since become part of the lore.
I agree, it read as a reference to the old comics that movie-lovers would also get. Best of both worlds.
Quote from: SM on Aug 19, 2015, 11:55:53 PM
I still don't see how that's a "definite" nod to the films. As Hicks mentioned I think, if anything, it's a nod to the earlier comics that invented the concept and has since become part of the lore.
One could say that this very forum owes its existence to the Dark Horse comics as the very idea of AVP originated with Dark Horse. At least that's how I remember it.
Well as I said, if it wasn't for the movies then the blooding plot device wouldn't even have been introduced in Fire and Stone, that's pretty significant.
I'm still not sure what you're basing that on?
If there had been no AvP film, or ritual scarring hadn't been in the film - it still could've been used in a comic because it came from a comic in the first place.
As I said before, the entire idea of Fire and Stone is that it's a reboot of the franchise therefore none of the previous EU would belong in the story. Can you name another aspect of the previous EU in either the Aliens or Predator franchise that somehow made it into Fire and Stone?
I just re-discovered an interview with Editor-In-Chief Scott Allie who oversaw ALL 4 story arcs in Fire and Stone, and this is what he said on the matter:
QuoteDo you plan on revisiting any classic Alien or Predator comic storylines, like Marvel does with its Ultimate comics?
Scott Allie: Nope, that's definitely not the focus here. We're more careful to not repeat things we've done before, although with so many comics in the past, there's a chance there'll be some similarities. But that's not a goal.
Which of the movies are you not treating as canon?
Scott Allie: I think we're treating them all as canon, but it's a big universe, and the human race has been around a long time. Some films are closer to our timeline than others, and we're guided more by the earlier films, and by Prometheus.
http://io9.com/see-dark-horses-first-alien-predator-avp-and-prometh-1500505424?dfp_pp_ab=on&dfp_desktop_three=off&utm_expid=66866090-43.E9Bjfd6NTuSlXJewu2e_Ig.1&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F (http://io9.com/see-dark-horses-first-alien-predator-avp-and-prometh-1500505424?dfp_pp_ab=on&dfp_desktop_three=off&utm_expid=66866090-43.E9Bjfd6NTuSlXJewu2e_Ig.1&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F)
Ultimately, I think it's clear from these words that the writers took ALL the movies to be canon and took NONE of the previous comics as relevant.
Just because they're not beholden to old storylines doesn't obligate them to ignore the old lore regarding the creatures, should they so choose.
Didn't they also say they ignored the AvP movies?
The writer of the AVP comics did claim that he wanted to ignore the AVP films but as you can clearly see, the person who was pulling the strings between all 4 arcs decided differently. Regardless of what you're trying to say, the blooding is obviously included because of the films; you made some good points but ultimately you have still failed to come up with another aspect exclusive to the former comics EU that also made it into Fire and Stone.
That's not really relevant to the discussion though. You're claiming that DH "definitely" got blooding from the film, but I can't see anything that backs that up.
It could've come from the comics - where it originated - or the film.
Yeah, except Scott Allie, the person who was controlling the entire story, has explicitly stated that the previous comics had no relevance to F&S while the films did. I know you don't like to listen to the words of directors, writers, etc., but it's pretty clear that the AVP films did play a part in the development in Fire and Stone, if not your personal canon.
An element from the old comics that made it into Fire and Stone? White hybrid mutants. ;D
Oh, no you di'n't!
Quote from: predxeno on Aug 20, 2015, 01:07:14 AM
Yeah, except Scott Allie, the person who was controlling the entire story, has explicitly stated that the previous comics had no relevance to F&S while the films did. I know you don't like to listen to the words of directors, writers, etc., but it's pretty clear that the AVP films did play a part in the development in Fire and Stone, if not your personal canon.
My opinion isn't relevant either.
They said they ignored the old comics
and the AvP films. Ergo the blooding could've come from either source; not solely the film as you're claiming.
*Sigh*, you're once again twisting the facts to fit the argument you're making; the truth is a writer of 1/4 of the story said that he didn't want to include the films, but the person in control of 4/4 of the story and more said that they were included. I know you don't like losing, but please don't exaggerate the details to the point of inaccuracy just to win an argument.
Apologies, I didn't see your edit earlier.
But even then I'm not sure that proves your point. As Allie says "there's a chance there'll be some similarities".
Yeah, and in an interview, Christopher Sebela (author of AVP Fire and Stone) said, "I think we all agreed pretty early on to leave the movies behind." If Scott Allie says otherwise, then it goes to say that Sebela was wrong.
Does that not indicate it might be from either source?
It's like comparing differing statements from the senator of (insert state here) or the President of the United States, who do you think people will trust?
Depends who they voted for.
Quote from: predxeno on Aug 20, 2015, 12:37:21 AM
As I said before, the entire idea of Fire and Stone is that it's a reboot of the franchise therefore none of the previous EU would belong in the story. Can you name another aspect of the previous EU in either the Aliens or Predator franchise that somehow made it into Fire and Stone?
I just re-discovered an interview with Editor-In-Chief Scott Allie who oversaw ALL 4 story arcs in Fire and Stone, and this is what he said on the matter:
QuoteDo you plan on revisiting any classic Alien or Predator comic storylines, like Marvel does with its Ultimate comics?
Scott Allie: Nope, that's definitely not the focus here. We're more careful to not repeat things we've done before, although with so many comics in the past, there's a chance there'll be some similarities. But that's not a goal.
Which of the movies are you not treating as canon?
Scott Allie: I think we're treating them all as canon, but it's a big universe, and the human race has been around a long time. Some films are closer to our timeline than others, and we're guided more by the earlier films, and by Prometheus.
http://io9.com/see-dark-horses-first-alien-predator-avp-and-prometh-1500505424?dfp_pp_ab=on&dfp_desktop_three=off&utm_expid=66866090-43.E9Bjfd6NTuSlXJewu2e_Ig.1&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F (http://io9.com/see-dark-horses-first-alien-predator-avp-and-prometh-1500505424?dfp_pp_ab=on&dfp_desktop_three=off&utm_expid=66866090-43.E9Bjfd6NTuSlXJewu2e_Ig.1&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F)
Ultimately, I think it's clear from these words that the writers took ALL the movies to be canon and took NONE of the previous comics as relevant.
I can name another aspect from the original comics that found its way into fire and stone:
Aliens and predators fighting with each other! Lol
But seriously. I'd have to agree with SM on this. Blooding originated in the comics. It found its way to the film, and eventually fire and stone. It wouldn't have been in F&S if it weren't for the original comics (nor in the films, for that matter). But unless there's a quote from an author or something that specifically says "oh yea, we borrowed blooding from the film," I would be inclined to think otherwise. My opinion. Sources of inspiration aside, the films were inspired by the original comics, so even if F&S was inspired by the films it's ultimately inspired by the original comics as well by extension.
Quote from: Engineer on Aug 20, 2015, 03:07:52 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Aug 20, 2015, 12:37:21 AM
As I said before, the entire idea of Fire and Stone is that it's a reboot of the franchise therefore none of the previous EU would belong in the story. Can you name another aspect of the previous EU in either the Aliens or Predator franchise that somehow made it into Fire and Stone?
I just re-discovered an interview with Editor-In-Chief Scott Allie who oversaw ALL 4 story arcs in Fire and Stone, and this is what he said on the matter:
QuoteDo you plan on revisiting any classic Alien or Predator comic storylines, like Marvel does with its Ultimate comics?
Scott Allie: Nope, that's definitely not the focus here. We're more careful to not repeat things we've done before, although with so many comics in the past, there's a chance there'll be some similarities. But that's not a goal.
Which of the movies are you not treating as canon?
Scott Allie: I think we're treating them all as canon, but it's a big universe, and the human race has been around a long time. Some films are closer to our timeline than others, and we're guided more by the earlier films, and by Prometheus.
http://io9.com/see-dark-horses-first-alien-predator-avp-and-prometh-1500505424?dfp_pp_ab=on&dfp_desktop_three=off&utm_expid=66866090-43.E9Bjfd6NTuSlXJewu2e_Ig.1&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F (http://io9.com/see-dark-horses-first-alien-predator-avp-and-prometh-1500505424?dfp_pp_ab=on&dfp_desktop_three=off&utm_expid=66866090-43.E9Bjfd6NTuSlXJewu2e_Ig.1&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F)
Ultimately, I think it's clear from these words that the writers took ALL the movies to be canon and took NONE of the previous comics as relevant.
I can name another aspect from the original comics that found its way into fire and stone:
Aliens and predators fighting with each other! Lol
But seriously. I'd have to agree with SM on this. Blooding originated in the comics. It found its way to the film, and eventually fire and stone. It wouldn't have been in F&S if it weren't for the original comics (nor in the films, for that matter). But unless there's a quote from an author or something that specifically says "oh yea, we borrowed blooding from the film," I would be inclined to think otherwise. My opinion. Sources of inspiration aside, the films were inspired by the original comics, so even if F&S was inspired by the films it's ultimately inspired by the original comics as well by extension.
Uh, the quote has already been provided and is even featured in your post.
Quote from: SM on Aug 20, 2015, 02:15:05 AM
Depends who they voted for.
I voted for the other guy.... Every time. :-(
Quote from: predxeno on Aug 20, 2015, 03:09:21 AM
Quote from: Engineer on Aug 20, 2015, 03:07:52 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Aug 20, 2015, 12:37:21 AM
As I said before, the entire idea of Fire and Stone is that it's a reboot of the franchise therefore none of the previous EU would belong in the story. Can you name another aspect of the previous EU in either the Aliens or Predator franchise that somehow made it into Fire and Stone?
I just re-discovered an interview with Editor-In-Chief Scott Allie who oversaw ALL 4 story arcs in Fire and Stone, and this is what he said on the matter:
QuoteDo you plan on revisiting any classic Alien or Predator comic storylines, like Marvel does with its Ultimate comics?
Scott Allie: Nope, that's definitely not the focus here. We're more careful to not repeat things we've done before, although with so many comics in the past, there's a chance there'll be some similarities. But that's not a goal.
Which of the movies are you not treating as canon?
Scott Allie: I think we're treating them all as canon, but it's a big universe, and the human race has been around a long time. Some films are closer to our timeline than others, and we're guided more by the earlier films, and by Prometheus.
http://io9.com/see-dark-horses-first-alien-predator-avp-and-prometh-1500505424?dfp_pp_ab=on&dfp_desktop_three=off&utm_expid=66866090-43.E9Bjfd6NTuSlXJewu2e_Ig.1&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F (http://io9.com/see-dark-horses-first-alien-predator-avp-and-prometh-1500505424?dfp_pp_ab=on&dfp_desktop_three=off&utm_expid=66866090-43.E9Bjfd6NTuSlXJewu2e_Ig.1&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F)
Ultimately, I think it's clear from these words that the writers took ALL the movies to be canon and took NONE of the previous comics as relevant.
I can name another aspect from the original comics that found its way into fire and stone:
Aliens and predators fighting with each other! Lol
But seriously. I'd have to agree with SM on this. Blooding originated in the comics. It found its way to the film, and eventually fire and stone. It wouldn't have been in F&S if it weren't for the original comics (nor in the films, for that matter). But unless there's a quote from an author or something that specifically says "oh yea, we borrowed blooding from the film," I would be inclined to think otherwise. My opinion. Sources of inspiration aside, the films were inspired by the original comics, so even if F&S was inspired by the films it's ultimately inspired by the original comics as well by extension.
Uh, the quote has already been provided and is even featured in your post.
Uh no! That quote does NOT specifically say "we got blooding from the movies not the original comics." Try again. :-)
Regardless of what anybody says, the idea of blooding did originate in DH comics. Since DH comics did Fire and Stone, it stands to reason that they are aware of the source material they generated. Whether consciously or subconsciously, the idea started with DHP #36 I believe, where we see the first Predator get blooded. I think issue #35 had images of a blooded Predator but we had no idea where that was from until next issue. Case closed. (Yah right. ;))
QuoteUh no! That quote does NOT specifically say "we got blooding from the movies not the original comics." Try again. :-)
Uh, yeah it did; Scott Allie specifically said they did not use any of the previous comic book material in Fire and Stone but they did use the movies. Do I really need to connect the dots for you?
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 20, 2015, 04:57:59 AM
Regardless of what anybody says, the idea of blooding did originate in DH comics. Since DH comics did Fire and Stone, it stands to reason that they are aware of the source material they generated. Whether consciously or subconsciously, the idea started with DHP #36 I believe, where we see the first Predator get blooded. I think issue #35 had images of a blooded Predator but we had no idea where that was from until next issue. Case closed. (Yah right. ;))
Yes, blooding began in the comic books but it's clear that the movie had an influence on Fire and Stone, I mean the "blooding" on Fire and Stone features the
movie's mark, NOT the comic book's mark. How are you going to argue your way out of that one?
Quote from: predxeno on Aug 19, 2015, 10:16:31 PM
It was a joke, get a sense of humor.
Quit with the attitude please.
Sorry, it was a bit much in hind sight.
I can see what you're trying to saw, Predxeno. That because Fire and Stone is supposed to be rebooting the comics and that the others would be ignoring then it has to be because that element that came from the comic was used in the film and is included in a series ignoring the comics it has to come from the film. However, I think your logic is far too linear here.
The blooding idea is merely a concept. A concept that is quite integral to the Aliens vs. Predator concept (a concept which started in comic, not film). It would seem more to me that the idea of a reboot is to ignore complete stories from the past - not entire concepts. By that logic I'm going to say that Fire and Stone had Aliens fighting Predators...well...that must be because they fought against each other in the film.
Regardless, I've Tweeted Chris Sebela to ask him where he draw inspiration for the blooding from.
I think all of you have some good points.
The only thing that is similar with the AvP movies is the shape of the scar.
Now, when you look at how the Predators react to this scar, you see some differences.
In the films, the Elder simply gave Alex a spear and left her.
In the comics, Machiko Noguchi got accepted as an equal and lived amongst them.
Now, Elden also got accepted by Ahab, when you see the moment when Elden calls Ahab his "brother" and Ahab gives Elden that little Predator hug. That to me feels like it's closer to the comics than the movies.
So, in the end, you all may be right that the F&S comics took elements from comics and the films (but a bit more from the comics regarding to how Ahab reacted to the scar by seemingly accepting Elden rather than just sparing him and giving him a gift like with Alex in the film.)
Quote from: SM on Aug 19, 2015, 10:03:29 PM
It's the most coherent it's been in a long time.
Until the new alien 3 comes around and tries to do to alien 3 and alien r. what Fire and Stone did to the old comics. Its like Fox is trying to prove there is no official canon or continuity on the franchise.
Quote from: predxeno on Aug 20, 2015, 05:53:08 AM
QuoteUh no! That quote does NOT specifically say "we got blooding from the movies not the original comics." Try again. :-)
Uh, yeah it did; Scott Allie specifically said they did not use any of the previous comic book material in Fire and Stone but they did use the movies. Do I really need to connect the dots for you?
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 20, 2015, 04:57:59 AM
Regardless of what anybody says, the idea of blooding did originate in DH comics. Since DH comics did Fire and Stone, it stands to reason that they are aware of the source material they generated. Whether consciously or subconsciously, the idea started with DHP #36 I believe, where we see the first Predator get blooded. I think issue #35 had images of a blooded Predator but we had no idea where that was from until next issue. Case closed. (Yah right. ;))
Yes, blooding began in the comic books but it's clear that the movie had an influence on Fire and Stone, I mean the "blooding" on Fire and Stone features the movie's mark, NOT the comic book's mark. How are you going to argue your way out of that one?
Predxeno-
I've been thinking about that quote a little more. It says they took all the movies as canon, right? Ok, but then they go on to say that some movies fit their timeline better, so they focused more on the earlier films and Prometheus. The way I interpret this is alien/aliens/predator/predator 2 and Prometheus... Maybe alien 3. But resurrection was probably at the bottom of the list because it was irrelevant given that it takes place WAY after F&S. So that leaves the avp movies, towards the bottom of the totem pole just above alien resurrection, right? Maybe those movies had a smaller influence than one might expect? ;-)
Also, the blooding symbol appears aesthetically the same as the movie, obviously that's a (minor) influence from the movie. I never said otherwise. But the concept of blooding could have come from either source still. The quote you provided, again, says they're not revisiting old comic storylines, like machiko and her adopted predator clan for example. "Blooding" is a concept or plot devise not a storyline. The comics used blooding as an illustrative way of moving the plot forward, by showing a bond between two characters who'd otherwise be trying to kill each other. They could have used another gesture to accomplish this same thing like a handshake; high five; a head nod, wink wink, and a thumbs up. It would have been cheesy, sure, but it all moves the story along in the same way. Blooding specifically, works because it fits in with the predators and gave us a sense of culture.
And the quote does not say anything about blooding specifically. I am literally saying I won't believe it until there's a quote that says "blooding" and something to the effect of "came from movie not comics."
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 20, 2015, 07:26:30 AM
I can see what you're trying to saw, Predxeno. That because Fire and Stone is supposed to be rebooting the comics and that the others would be ignoring then it has to be because that element that came from the comic was used in the film and is included in a series ignoring the comics it has to come from the film. However, I think your logic is far too linear here.
The blooding idea is merely a concept. A concept that is quite integral to the Aliens vs. Predator concept (a concept which started in comic, not film). It would seem more to me that the idea of a reboot is to ignore complete stories from the past - not entire concepts. By that logic I'm going to say that Fire and Stone had Aliens fighting Predators...well...that must be because they fought against each other in the film.
Regardless, I've Tweeted Chris Sebela to ask him where he draw inspiration for the blooding from.
Thank you hicks. I look forward to the tweet response. :-)
Yeah, I'm not trying to say that the storyline from the movies or comics transferred into Fire and Stone, I'm just saying that the 1st AVP film, at least, had an impact on the design or development of the series. The movie's blooding mark seems to indicate that at some point, the writers either conceived the idea based on the first movie's "plot device" or deliberately altered the mark to make it match the movie's design.
I was looking on Titan's site, and it looks like maybe Predator: Incursion has been pushed back. Titan has the release date listed as October 20th now, although Amazon still has it listed as September 29th.
http://titanbooks.com/predator-incursion-the-rage-war-1-8140/ (http://titanbooks.com/predator-incursion-the-rage-war-1-8140/)
That really isn't surprising news all things considered. :(
Yeah, not surprising. River of Pain got pushed back a few weeks shortly before release, and it seems like there are a lot of delays going on with the franchise recently, assuming there's any truth behind the stuff being said about Prometheus 2 and Alien 5.
Quote from: predxeno on Aug 20, 2015, 05:57:54 PM
Yeah, I'm not trying to say that the storyline from the movies or comics transferred into Fire and Stone, I'm just saying that the 1st AVP film, at least, had an impact on the design or development of the series. The movie's blooding mark seems to indicate that at some point, the writers either conceived the idea based on the first movie's "plot device" or deliberately altered the mark to make it match the movie's design.
I'm inclined to believe the mark was deliberately altered to match the movie, but the concept of blooding may have come from the movie or the old comics. If Hicks gets a reply the specifies that blooding came strictly from the movie and not the comics, I'd be more than happy to admit I was wrong! :-)
But honestly, I think the more likely response will be that blooding came about from both sources rather than just one or the other...
Has Sebela ever replied back to us before? I feel like he'd be rather reluctant to respond to us at all regarding this issue since the AVP movies are such sensitive territory, and it seems clear they were consulted at least once in some capacity down the road.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Aug 20, 2015, 05:59:55 PM
I was looking on Titan's site, and it looks like maybe Predator: Incursion has been pushed back. Titan has the release date listed as October 20th now, although Amazon still has it listed as September 29th.
http://titanbooks.com/predator-incursion-the-rage-war-1-8140/ (http://titanbooks.com/predator-incursion-the-rage-war-1-8140/)
I'll check with PR.
Quote from: predxeno on Aug 20, 2015, 07:06:45 PM
Has Sebela ever replied back to us before? I feel like he'd be rather reluctant to respond to us at all regarding this issue since the AVP movies are such sensitive territory, and it seems clear they were consulted at least once in some capacity down the road.
He has. We interviewed him not long back - http://www.avpgalaxy.net/website/interviews/chris-sebela/
Chapters in Canada still has it for Sept 29 release.
https://www.chapters.indigo.ca/en-ca/books/predator-incursion-the-rage-war/9781783296248-item.html?ikwid=Predator&ikwsec=Home&ikwidx=2
The link above doesn't work anymore. A search shows another profile still with the September date - http://titanbooks.com/predator-incursion-the-rage-war-1-8397/
The release date has been changed to October 20th on Amazon. It looks official, which is a shame, but I'm still looking forward to it. Something spooky to read around Halloween, and it gives me more time to get my copies of the last Titan trilogy out of storage for a re-read!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1783296240?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1783296240?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00)
I've sent PR an email.
Chapters remains unchanged. Remember when the last book came out I had it a few weeks before anyone else? Maybe that will happen again?
From Tim's Facebook today:
QuoteShort story delivered. Back to the novel ... Alien: Invasion (Rage War book 2)
Also I'm chasing the preview and release date change info request.
Cool stuff. Can't wait!
Tim Lebbon was on a podcast recently, and he talked a bit about Rage War. He talks about it starting at 51 minutes:
http://www.projectiradio.com/special-guest-tim-lebbon-three-guys-with-beards/ (http://www.projectiradio.com/special-guest-tim-lebbon-three-guys-with-beards/)
Some new info:
Spoiler
Trilogy is set even further in the future than Sea of Sorrows, being set around 2690, which seem to rule out Decker coming back. He also mentions some anxious Skype calls when Alien 5 was announced, and that he had a lot of freedom in crafting the pitch.
Can't wait.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Sep 16, 2015, 11:13:35 PM
Tim Lebbon was on a podcast recently, and he talked a bit about Rage War. He talks about it starting at 51 minutes:
http://www.projectiradio.com/special-guest-tim-lebbon-three-guys-with-beards/ (http://www.projectiradio.com/special-guest-tim-lebbon-three-guys-with-beards/)
Some new info:
Spoiler
Trilogy is set even further in the future than Sea of Sorrows, being set around 2690, which seem to rule out Decker coming back. He also mentions some anxious Skype calls when Alien 5 was announced, and that he had a lot of freedom in crafting the pitch.
Can't wait.
This pleases me a lot.
Spoiler
In my headcanon, I like to set the "present" around the 2700s, and all the media is sort of like a report of events that happened that you can look into through research.
So Rage War being set in the 2690's is very close to my "present" setting.
Also, have you heard of the AvP game called "Last of his Clan" set in 2593? It was the furthest setting, I am glad Rage War goes a century after that!
I noticed a trend here, the SNES AvP game was set in 2493 and Sea of Sorrows went further into 2496 and then 2497 and then Rage War goes further than Last of his Clan. I know those games are very obscure and not a lot of people know of them, but it amused me.
Can't wait!
I agree
Spoiler
the far, far future setting pleases me, especially since it means that W-Y has had almost 200 years to reverse-engineer the dog-alien tech and the xenos that they get ahold of at the end of Sea of Sorrows. I'm vet much looking forward to what they've come up with.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Sep 17, 2015, 01:51:04 PM
I agree Spoiler
the far, far future setting pleases me, especially since it means that W-Y has had almost 200 years to reverse-engineer the dog-alien tech and the xenos that they get ahold of at the end of Sea of Sorrows. I'm vet much looking forward to what they've come up with.
Good points, also
Spoiler
The late 27th century might give the humans a slight chance against the Predators in a war, and according to the descriptions, they're STILL more advanced than us and giving us trouble even in the 2690's.
Also it doesn't sound odd that W-Y has endured for so long, some companies even today were around since the 1800's. I remember some products proudly stating how they've been making a product for a long time.
Also times change a lot, I remember someone saying how can W-Y control the Colonial Marines now, maybe between Sea of Sorrows and Rage War, they took control, a lot can happen in 200 years.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Sep 17, 2015, 02:57:40 PMI remember someone saying how can W-Y control the Colonial Marines now, maybe between Sea of Sorrows and Rage War, they took control, a lot can happen in 200 years.
Maybe it's not what you're thinking of, but I questioned whether the USCM would still exist so many years after
Aliens. Look at the military 200 years ago, and look at it now. The structure/organisation/units are all totally different. I find it hard to believe the Colonial Marines would even exist any more more than
five centuries later.
I'm also looking forward to
Spoiler
however much "future history" we get in the novel. I liked the stuff in Sea of Sorrows talking about the USM and Earth being terraformed, so I'm eager to hear what's been happening since then.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 17, 2015, 03:02:24 PM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Sep 17, 2015, 02:57:40 PMI remember someone saying how can W-Y control the Colonial Marines now, maybe between Sea of Sorrows and Rage War, they took control, a lot can happen in 200 years.
Maybe it's not what you're thinking of, but I questioned whether the USCM would still exist so many years after Aliens. Look at the military 200 years ago, and look at it now. The structure/organisation/units are all totally different. I find it hard to believe the Colonial Marines would even exist any more more than five centuries later.
Oh yeah, now I remember you bringing this up and it's quite a valid point.
I remember reading that this CMC is being controlled by W-Y, so it might have transitioned from a government military to a fully privatized military. So this may no longer be the same Colonial Marines.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Sep 17, 2015, 03:03:34 PM
I'm also looking forward to Spoiler
however much "future history" we get in the novel. I liked the stuff in Sea of Sorrows talking about the USM and Earth being terraformed, so I'm eager to hear what's been happening since then.
I am definitely excited for that too. To see what happened in between. Do you think it might mention the W-Y report becoming public? Since the way the report is structured, it looks like it was released in a far future setting to the general public as if giving not just a lesson on the Xenomorphs, but a history lesson on them as well.
Listened to that part of the podcast again this morning, worth noting that he also says there's about six months between the release of the Rage War books, so we can tentatively expect Alien: Invasion in April/May 2016 and AvP: Armageddon in October/November 2016.
As far as the Colonial Marines and W-Y still being around in the 27th century, I guess we can applaud the AvP universe for achieving Star Trek levels of social stability. :laugh:
QuoteSince the way the report is structured, it looks like it was released in a far future setting to the general public as if giving not just a lesson on the Xenomorphs, but a history lesson on them as well.
It's not structured for 'general public'. It's WY internal and security classified.
Quote from: SM on Sep 17, 2015, 10:16:59 PM
QuoteSince the way the report is structured, it looks like it was released in a far future setting to the general public as if giving not just a lesson on the Xenomorphs, but a history lesson on them as well.
It's not structured for 'general public'. It's WY internal and security classified.
I thought I read somewhere that it mentioned it was released for the "public" Perhaps I mis-read it.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Sep 18, 2015, 11:24:37 AMI thought I read somewhere that it mentioned it was released for the "public" Perhaps I mis-read it.
It's implied that it's given to the crew members to read in the book
Seas of Sorrows, but they're on a secret Weyland-Yutani mission, so they can't really be called the general public.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 18, 2015, 11:35:31 AM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Sep 18, 2015, 11:24:37 AMI thought I read somewhere that it mentioned it was released for the "public" Perhaps I mis-read it.
It's implied that it's given to the crew members to read in the book Seas of Sorrows, but they're on a secret Weyland-Yutani mission, so they can't really be called the general public.
I see. Thanks for clearing it up for me.
I may actually have to shell out for shipping and conversion and buy a copy from an English site. A month is too long to avoid spoilers. ;D
Then again, maybe this is karma for getting to see Prometheus a week early because I was studying abroad in England when it came out. ;D
Quote from: Ultramorph on Sep 20, 2015, 07:39:12 PM
I may actually have to shell out for shipping and conversion and buy a copy from an English site. A month is too long to avoid spoilers. ;D
Why? It comes out October 20th over here too.
Lebbon posted on Facebook today that it's out Friday in the UK, and Amazon UK lists the date at September 25th.
QuoteOut on Friday in the UK (next month in the US)!
Who really knows at this point, though.
Well that's good news. Amazon UK has it listed as October 20th. I hope it hasn't been pushed back but if it truly is available as early as Friday I would have thought most websites would have had a preview by now? Everything is still strangely quiet.
I am much more hesitant with this one as aside from perhaps the original Concrete Jungle and South China Sea, I don't believe the Predators have ever really been done well in the novels. I dislike both the Hish and Yautja concept and I don't necessarily see why we need to delve into the culture of these Hunters. An air of mystery is what makes them fearsome.
At least a Predator invasion force is something we've never seen before. I largely enjoyed Out of the Shadows on the whole, so I hope this one is just as good. I also hope there's a justifiable reason why it needs to be set so far into the future.
I agree that the silence is strange. I have my fingers crossed that maybe something is said tomorrow.
I didn't mind Flesh and Blood, and even Forever Midnight was OK in its own way.
I like that this is a big story, so I'm looking forward to seeing what kinds of twists we get.
Admittedly I've been in cloaking mode this last week but I'm back. I'm chasing up with Titan again. The editor had been out at conventions recently so hadn't picked up his emails.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Sep 20, 2015, 09:14:44 PMLebbon posted on Facebook today that it's out Friday in the UK, and Amazon UK lists the date at September 25th.
Who really knows at this point, though.
One of the previous trilogy (can't remember which, either
Sea of Sorrows or
River of Pain) was out a bit earlier in the UK than the US, so I wouldn't be totally shocked if there were differing release dates.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Sep 20, 2015, 09:22:40 PM
Well that's good news. Amazon UK has it listed as October 20th. I hope it hasn't been pushed back but if it truly is available as early as Friday I would have thought most websites would have had a preview by now? Everything is still strangely quiet.
I am much more hesitant with this one as aside from perhaps the original Concrete Jungle and South China Sea, I don't believe the Predators have ever really been done well in the novels. I dislike both the Hish and Yautja concept and I don't necessarily see why we need to delve into the culture of these Hunters. An air of mystery is what makes them fearsome.
At least a Predator invasion force is something we've never seen before. I largely enjoyed Out of the Shadows on the whole, so I hope this one is just as good. I also hope there's a justifiable reason why it needs to be set so far into the future.
I believe someone here asked Tim Lebbon on Twitter how the Predators will be portrayed as "Yautja" were mentioned on Amazon and if Lebbon read the previous books.
The author said no, and he also said he wasn't going to be doing Predator pov stuff so seeing more of their culture really in depth would be the last thing I'd expect to see. He is avoiding to focus on them for the sake of keeping them mysterious.
The least we would get maybe is bits and pieces, like some human characters hide and spy on a group of Predators interact. Or they could be human captives before they somehow escape. I don't know. Something along those lines. So don't expect anything really detailed.
I hope that's the case, and the term 'Yautja' is just used in the marketing materials and back cover synopsis, rather than the manuscript itself.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Sep 21, 2015, 12:39:35 PM
I hope that's the case, and the term 'Yautja' is just used in the marketing materials and back cover synopsis, rather than the manuscript itself.
You're in luck, because Lebbon has said that we won't be getting anything from the Predator perspective, and that the Yautja thing is just in the summary.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Sep 21, 2015, 05:00:22 PMYou're in luck, because Lebbon has said that we won't be getting anything from the Predator perspective, and that the Yautja thing is just in the summary.
I'm not sure he ever said the term Yautja isn't used in the novel itself, but he did say the book won't have anything from Predator perspective.
Yautja could simply be the term adopted by humans for the creatures in the story.
That's true, it could be what the humans wind up calling them.
Book Depository, a UK site, has Rage War listed as coming out September 25 with free worldwide shipping, so anyone here in the US who wants to pick it up early might want to get it from there.
http://www.bookdepository.com/Predator-Incursion-Rage-War-1-Tim-Lebbon/9781783298334 (http://www.bookdepository.com/Predator-Incursion-Rage-War-1-Tim-Lebbon/9781783298334)
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 21, 2015, 05:03:56 PM
Quote from: Ultramorph on Sep 21, 2015, 05:00:22 PMYou're in luck, because Lebbon has said that we won't be getting anything from the Predator perspective, and that the Yautja thing is just in the summary.
I'm not sure he ever said the term Yautja isn't used in the novel itself, but he did say the book won't have anything from Predator perspective.
Yautja could simply be the term adopted by humans for the creatures in the story.
That's true, we don't know if the term "Yautja" would be used in the story itself.
I wonder though, how would the humans end up calling them this? Maybe a human heard a word and tried to pronounce it (likely butchering the hell out of it) and wound up with "Yautja".
I suspect they'd mainly call them "Predators" as that's a name that sometimes comes up in some works.
I like how in one crossover comic, the main hero got caught in the Predator's net and the villains were hiding and watching, one of them goes "we'll let our predatory friend kill him" and they just wound up calling it "Predator" as the word just stuck out of nowhere and seemed to fit. There's other AvP comics where random humans just so happen to call them "Predator" for one reason or another.
So I'm curious to see how it got to humans calling them what they call them in the novel.
I'm curious to see if there winds up being an eventual team-up between the humans and the Predators, ala Three World War. I sort of hope not, but one never knows.
Given how the Aliens are being set up as "enemy of my enemy", I wouldn't be surprised if it happens at some point.
If they do do it, I hope they leave it for the second or third novel so they can at least build up to it properly.
Steve Saffel, an editor at Titan, responded on Lebbon's Facebook about the release date. Both the UK and U.S. will be getting it on October 20th:
QuoteAs soon as I saw this thread, I went scrambling to get the details. The printer on the UK edition ran into trouble completing the embossing on the cover. That caused enough of a delay that the book will release on the same date as the US edition. That edition was moved to October 20, at the request of the distributor. It'll be well worth the wait, though, and while the UK fans have to wait a while longer, they get the book as a b-format trade paperback. Here in the US we get the smaller mass market!
I can't believe I'm buying a Predator novel. And yet, resistance is futile I guess. Just lost all interest in Predators somewhere around AVP:R...
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Sep 21, 2015, 12:09:50 PM
I believe someone here asked Tim Lebbon on Twitter how the Predators will be portrayed as "Yautja" were mentioned on Amazon and if Lebbon read the previous books.
I believe that was me who asked that.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Sep 21, 2015, 05:35:38 PM
That's true, we don't know if the term "Yautja" would be used in the story itself.
As much as I love the Yautja, I really wouldn't want someone touching that in this new EU material. However considering that Lebbon had said he had never read any of the older stuff, or at least used it for these novels, I doubt we will see the Yautja term thrown about. What I can confirm is that we are getting honorable Predators as Lebbon had also answered my question regarding that.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Sep 22, 2015, 08:10:28 PM
Steve Saffel, an editor at Titan, responded on Lebbon's Facebook about the release date. Both the UK and U.S. will be getting it on October 20th:
QuoteAs soon as I saw this thread, I went scrambling to get the details. The printer on the UK edition ran into trouble completing the embossing on the cover. That caused enough of a delay that the book will release on the same date as the US edition. That edition was moved to October 20, at the request of the distributor. It'll be well worth the wait, though, and while the UK fans have to wait a while longer, they get the book as a b-format trade paperback. Here in the US we get the smaller mass market!
And I was just popping on to say PR had finally responded to me to say it was October 20th. xD
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 23, 2015, 12:02:33 AM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Sep 21, 2015, 12:09:50 PM
I believe someone here asked Tim Lebbon on Twitter how the Predators will be portrayed as "Yautja" were mentioned on Amazon and if Lebbon read the previous books.
I believe that was me who asked that.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Sep 21, 2015, 05:35:38 PM
That's true, we don't know if the term "Yautja" would be used in the story itself.
As much as I love the Yautja, I really wouldn't want someone touching that in this new EU material. However considering that Lebbon had said he had never read any of the older stuff, or at least used it for these novels, I doubt we will see the Yautja term thrown about. What I can confirm is that we are getting honorable Predators as Lebbon had also answered my question regarding that.
That's neat, I wonder how it will be played out.
A Predator invasion is something we never really saw, I hope despite not showing much of their pov, we'd see some war rituals, doesn't have to go too in depth. The whole ritual aspect I found fascinating.
That's something I really loved about AvP Extinction, those little written intros before Predator missions.
How a captive Predator must be "ritually killed" by the "hands of a Predator".
Or how in one of the missions, you must "ritually cleanse" a predalien hive and bring the predalien queen's head to the shrine to show "Predator supremacy" before nuking the entire thing.
Also one mission where you capture the scientist responsible for experimenting on Predators and creating predaliens and take him to the temple for a "traditional Torture Ritual" (I'd hate to be that fellow.)
It doesn't go too in depth, but it gives you a small tease on their mysterious culture.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Sep 23, 2015, 09:52:32 AMOr how in one of the missions, you must "ritually cleanse" a predalien hive and bring the predalien queen's head to the shrine to show "Predator supremacy" before nuking the entire thing.
One of the things I really enjoyed abut the Predator campaign in
AVP2010 was the vitriolic hatred your clan leader shows towards the Predalien. "End this affront to our ancestry!" and all that.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 23, 2015, 09:58:52 AM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Sep 23, 2015, 09:52:32 AMOr how in one of the missions, you must "ritually cleanse" a predalien hive and bring the predalien queen's head to the shrine to show "Predator supremacy" before nuking the entire thing.
One of the things I really enjoyed abut the Predator campaign in AVP2010 was the vitriolic hatred your clan leader shows towards the Predalien. "End this affront to our ancestry!" and all that.
I absolutely loved that. I also loved how salty they got over the fact that humans were walking all over their sacred grounds.
Speaking of that game, in the first mission when you find the first dead Predator, your clan leader commands you to set off his wrist bracer because "we must not allow the humans to take our technology".
I wonder if in this novel we might capture some Predator technology or even one of them.
It'll be cool to see how much alien tech humans get ahold of in this series.
Despite what's gone on with the print editions, Amazon UK's Kindle version is available for purchase, and it has a "Look Inside" preview available, so we can get our first sample.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Predator-Incursion-Rage-Tim-Lebbon-ebook/dp/B01412PIMM/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1443208728&sr=1-1&keywords=predator+incursion (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Predator-Incursion-Rage-Tim-Lebbon-ebook/dp/B01412PIMM/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1443208728&sr=1-1&keywords=predator+incursion)
I'm trying to re-read Peter Briggs' AvP and all this new stuff just keeps coming in to distract me! I haven't read it yet but I'll post this up tomorrow morning so I don't take away from the latest Paradise Lost news.
And I've just finished it. Curious they involved the Aliens that early on. I wonder why they just didn't call all the novels AvP. Then again, I don't know how the rest of the book will turn out. Anyway, I enjoyed that little tease. I did see the reveal coming a mile off but I'm quite curious as to the Founders. Looking forward to reading more now.
I just finished too, and I agree that the 'twist' was pretty obvious. I also don't love the use of capital X "Xenomorph," but I can get used to it. My guess is that
Spoiler
the Founders are whoever Call was working for, since the chapter was set roughly around the Resurrection era, and she seemed to have the same "get info, destroy the aliens" mission. It's definitely curious to see LV-178 being exploited pre-Sea of Sorrows.
Looking forward to reading the rest.
Spoiler
Agreed the time frame does seem odd. Only one sample chapter in and we already have a potential continuity error.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Sep 26, 2015, 12:22:52 AM
Spoiler
Agreed the time frame does seem odd. Only one sample chapter in and we already have a potential continuity error.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's a goof.
Sea of Sorrows wasn't originally supposed to take place as late as it did, so a mistake is understandable. Lebbon did say on a podcast that the novel is set around
Spoiler
2690
so who knows.
That date would put it about 30 years before Resurrection. And well before the events of Sea of Sorrows ultimately took place.
I've been planning to re-read Sea of Sorrows for a while now and my memory is a little hazy. But am I right in thinking that until Decker fell through the Sea of Sorrows and had his little connection, no one had penetrated LV-178 since the Marion incident, meaning the xenomorphs cannot have come from there?
That was the impression I got, too, but in this particular universe it doesn't surprise me that someone had gotten there first.
Another thing I noticed in the preview that's potentially telling:
Spoiler
the term "Human Sphere," which would of course seem to indicate that there are other Spheres for other races, like the Arcturians.
'Yautja'.
Damn it, Lebbon...
Sea of Sorrows begun in 2496 and the rest took place in 2497.
They manage to capture their Xenomorph on LV-178 after stumbling upon the mine.
So I was confused to see this sample take place in 2351 with "Xenomorph samples from LV 178"
I'm just gonna pretend it's 2651 if the Rage War takes place in 2690's. I mean, Steve Perry admitted a timeline mistake in one of his books on a thread dedicated to asking him questions. Also remember the first AvP game set "ten years after Aliens" somewhere in 2150 something? I just say "screw it, it's 2189".
So Tim Lebbon could've made a similar mistake.
Also, like in Out of the Shadows, he spelled Alpha Centauri wrong, it's not "Alpha Centurai". I don't blame him though, isn't it the editor's job to correct this?
It's just one of them little mistakes we gotta learn to ignore, like the huge one in the Space Jockey pilot room in River of Pain. I'm still excited to get this book and this sample was quite a fine read as an appetiser.
And Ultramorph, I noticed the "Human Sphere" thing as well. I found that quite interesting as it shows our space expansion to go in a spherical motion sorta. I wonder just how big our territories are in the far future. And I hope to see some Arcturians in this trilogy, since there were "plans for them".
EDIT:
Upon reflecting, I realized that
Spoiler
this may not be Weyland-Yutani involved since they were "bought out by Wal-Mart" around this era.
And Sea of Sorrows implies they begun to rise after Resurrection.
So the year thing may not be an error after all. Liliya could be destroying samples obtained by a different organization similar to how Call tried to destroy samples obtained by the USM.
So, this different organization may have stumbled upon the mines before Weyland-Yutani but kept it under wraps. The fact that this is a decommissioned Colonial-Marine vessel (key word - decommissioned) may imply that this may be the USM or something similar?
So perhaps this 2351 setting is just a prologue and the rest will take place in the 2690's, the Founders may learn that Weyland-Yutani captured a xeno and could be trying to foil it.
I agree, I think the 2351 is just a prologue thing, I get the impression we're dealing with the USM in it. Then the novel will jump to 2690.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Sep 26, 2015, 02:53:35 PM
I agree, I think the 2351 is just a prologue thing, I get the impression we're dealing with the USM in it. Then the novel will jump to 2690.
Yep, since I realized Weyland-Yutani wasn't mentioned at all, so it could be USM considering the time the prologue is set in and the fact that it mentioned "decommissioned" Colonial Marine vessels.
It wouldn't surprise me if LV-178 was revisited and the xenomorph discoveries covered up immediately as samples were taken. Then as the USM fell, this wasn't rediscovered until a little more than a century later in Sea of Sorrows.
The Founders sound interesting, I'd love to learn more about them. When I first heard of them while reading the preview, I thought they were Engineers as the wording got confusing with the whole "lost to history" thing mentioned right after introducing the Founders. It didn't take long to clear up for me that the Founders were a faction that understood the dangers that the Aliens possessed.
Perhaps some of the Colonial Marines from River of Pain founded this group? And many other people that had experiences with xenomorphs and understood the threat.
Ugh, we have got Yautja in this after all. My interest has just nose dived.
And yes...
Spoiler
Chapter 1 opens up 300 years after the prologue. 2692.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Sep 26, 2015, 03:28:39 PM
Ugh, we have got Yautja in this after all. My interest has just nose dived.
And yes...
Spoiler
Chapter 1 opens up 300 years after the prologue. 2692.
So wait, we ACTUALLY got Yautja? As in, in the actual story and not a marketing thing?
I'm sorry that you are disappointed. :) I never minded the Yautja as I like it.
And thanks for clearing up the time setting issue.
Yup. The marines know them as Yautja.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Sep 26, 2015, 05:01:12 PM
Yup. The marines know them as Yautja.
That's unusual, seeing as how humans usually call them "Predators".
I always wondered how humans got to calling them Yautja since some people were discussing it earlier on this thread.
But then I remembered that Machiko Noguchi was briefing some Colonial Marines on Yautja in one of the comics, guess they got the name from her.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Sep 26, 2015, 03:28:39 PM
Ugh, we have got Yautja in this after all. My interest has just nose dived.
And yes...
Spoiler
Chapter 1 opens up 300 years after the prologue. 2692.
Picked up the eBook? I was tempted, but I figure some region issue will come up and I'll wind up having to call my bank about an overseas transaction. :laugh:
is it availbe early only for uk?
Yup, the US Kindle version is still pre-order only. I really do think the UK version was released by mistake.
well im disappointed.. guess ill have to wait
Is the preview any good? I've spent the past 30 minutes trying comb through Amazon trying to find the preview, stupid question I have. I have all the Alien books from the new universe, EXCEPT Book 2: Sea of Sorrows, with Decker. Will I need to scramble the jets to read Sea of Sorrows first?
The preview is pretty good, raising some interesting things, and can be found here http://www.amazon.co.uk/Predator-Incursion-Rage-Tim-Lebbon-ebook/dp/B01412PIMM/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr= (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Predator-Incursion-Rage-Tim-Lebbon-ebook/dp/B01412PIMM/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=).
I wouldn't worry too much about reading Sea of Sorrows as I'm sure it will be covered in the book.
Hmm, don't click if you don't want to know the gist of the book. I haven't read it as I hate kindle but I've flicked though.
Spoiler
The Predators are already very well established in the universe. The colonial marines have a captured dead Predator in the opening chapter. Humans and Preds have been in a 'cold war' for over 200 years. We get Predators talking to humans via a Star Trek style universal translator and we don't just get a human vs. Pred team up but the entire Predator clan teams up with the humans because the aliens have apparently been weaponised by rogue androids.
It doesn't sound great if I'm honest.
Thanks man that's a big help on many fronts!!
Thanks for the info. It certainly sounds like this is going in an...interesting direction. Definitely more Star Trek-y than I was expecting, but I'll keep an open mind.
My guess is that
Spoiler
W-Y will come in with their own weaponized aliens and dog alien tech.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Sep 26, 2015, 11:39:39 AM
'Yautja'.
Damn it, Lebbon...
The Yautja concept is being used here? Oh boy.. I was hoping he wouldn't touch that.
Someone let me know how they are portrayed either in PMs or put in spoilers. Also.. are the Super Predators involved in this in anyway?
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Sep 26, 2015, 03:28:39 PM
Ugh, we have got Yautja in this after all. My interest has just nose dived.
And yes...
Spoiler
Chapter 1 opens up 300 years after the prologue. 2692.
Why? "Yautja" is just a term. What matters is how Lebbon handles the concept of Yautja/Predators/Hish/Hunters...whatever you want to call them
Quote from: happypred on Sep 27, 2015, 03:45:02 AM
Why? "Yautja" is just a term. What matters is how Lebbon handles the concept of Yautja/Predators/Hish/Hunters...whatever you want to call them
I am not sure I like the idea of the fact that Predators and Humans are aware of each other, and by that I mean the whole.. idea of communicating with each other directly with universal translators. If anything, I would've thought that Predators keep themselves completely in the shadows, so to speak, keeping humans oblivious of their presence-- or at least major militant factions in the dark anyway. But shit, I suppose that was thrown out with Three World War.
What irks me is the whole universal translation and direct communication going on. That's some serious Trekking there if I may say so. It just doesn't strike me as something the Predators would do. Even in Three World War, they had Machiko serving as a liason but they never directly contacted with each other.
Yeah...
Do they still hunt humans? Do they seed planets with xenomorph eggs?
Quote from: happypred on Sep 27, 2015, 05:09:16 AM
Do they still hunt humans? Do they seed planets with xenomorph eggs?
Or shifting pyramids for that matter?
Like I said, I haven't read the book and have just flicked through so I may be mistaken on some details, but it seems massively different from what I was expecting. Considering we've had so many stories about the Company trying to find a xenomorph specimen over a span of 300 years, within the opening chapter the marines have a dead Predator for study, and the way they reference it so casually implies this is not the first time they have had such a body.
The Predators are referred to as Yautja all throughout the book. Never once are they called Predators, or Hunters, always just Yautja. As I said; the humans have a translator that help them understand their language, so be prepared to see lots of Predator chat in this one. For example; "I am Hishori of the Widow Clan." I just can't take it seriously, and I mean no disrespect to those that like the Yautja concept, but I just don't want to see Predators talking and demystifying themselves. They should be silent, honorable and carry that air of mystery, just like the films.
The cold war aspect I referred to is essentially an uneasy truce between the human sphere and Yautja controlled space. Humans monitor Yautja communications and likewise the Yautja watch the humans.
Spoiler
The weaponised Aliens are all marked and are very reminiscent of General Spears and Nightmare Asylum. They seem to be controlled by a faction of Androids that are related to 'The Founders' and the way Liliya steals the research in the opening chapter is a foreshadowing of this. As far as I can tell, the Dog Aliens from Out of the Shadows have no involvement.
Thanks for the info. I hate to badger you with questions, but have the Arcturians been mentioned at all?
Quote from: Ultramorph on Sep 27, 2015, 02:50:27 AM
Thanks for the info. It certainly sounds like this is going in an...interesting direction. Definitely more Star Trek-y than I was expecting, but I'll keep an open mind.
My guess is that Spoiler
W-Y will come in with their own weaponized aliens and dog alien tech.
You know, I was actually thinking the exact same thing you put in the spoiler! Great minds think alike! ;D
As for all this new information, I am actually sorta liking the direction. It is 2692 afterall and humans are bound to catch up with Predators eventually. I was surprised to see them "monitoring Yautja communications", and be spied on in return. It looks like the Predators have lost their element of surprise, the number one advantage they had in all their appearances was because no one knew about them.
This story is in a sense exploring an idea of "what happens when we finally know about them?" and also how they react to this too. Do they finally recognize us as an intelligent race and not intelligent prey? I understand how some people are upset about this whole demystifying, I on the other hand appreciate mystery to an extent, but hate when things stay mysterious for so long. So I'm not too bothered about new directions being explored here.
Like Ultramorph, I'm gonna be hoarding any spoilerific answers that I can find as the wait for this book is too painful now.
I do hope we get to see the Dog-Aliens and the Arcturians eventually, as I remember hearing they might return or there were "plans" for them.
There's no mention of the Arcturians as of yet, but I've only been skimming the pages so there's every chance I may have missed a reference, but there's definitely no big link.
I'm not going to directly spoil the events of the book as I'll leave that for yourselves to enjoy, but here are some details about the 'universe-expanding' Tim Lebbon has done and a couple of other nuggets. I'm still not sure how I feel about this radical new direction, but I can't deny it is certainly interesting.
Spoiler
Humanity need Trimonite for FTL travel. They use 'Arrow' class ships for exploration purposes that can travel 15x the speed of light but only 1% of the Milky Way has been explored. The human sphere alone would take 200 years to circumnavigate and require almost a million tonnes of Trimonite for fuel. But at this point only half a million tonnes had ever been mined. The arrow class ships look for planets that may contain more of the fuel. But it is so staggeringly expensive, Weyland Yutani are pretty much the only corporation who can afford it, or so they believe.
Standard ships use Mass Effect style Mass Relays to jump from one point to another, called Drop holes in this universe.
The upper hierarchy of Weyland Yutani is run by 13 executives, known as 'the thirteen'. Not dissimilar to the 'original 11' from the BSAA for those who know their Resident Evil lore.
The Founders are some kind of religious sect and see themselves as pilgrims, seeking religious and philosophical freedom from the taint of the Human Sphere. They are comprised of former corporate employees, scientists and forward thinkers who are disillusioned with humanity. They developed their own secret, FTL drive more powerful than that of the company and were able to be the first humans to leave the Human Sphere behind. They took off in three ships named Macbeth, Othello and Hamlet. They were conceived by a man named Wordsworth and set off in the early 2400's.
They are looking to create their own utopia away from the sphere of human influence. They are aware of the dangers the galaxy poses, with the xenos and the Preds being just two of potentially hundreds of thousands of threats. We even get a small reference to Peter Weyland here – as it is said he went searching the galaxy and never returned and no one knows what became of him.
During their travels, the founders found an artificial planetoid with an unknown alien species that seem to grow their own technology. They bring one of the aliens on board the Macbeth, and over the course of a century, it re-builds and extends the ship, making it more faster and more efficient. The alien is described as a large slug and it is unknown if it is actually organic or machine, or both.
After Wordsworth died, the founders were taken over by someone named Beatrix Maloney and she changed them into 'The Rage' and began launching attacks on alien species. The Rage Elders build themselves an army of combat androids to protect themselves.
The Founders/Rage wish to harness and weaponise the xenomorphs as a defence against the unknown and to take revenge on humanity.
The events of the book concern Johnny Mains and his Void Lark marine unit. Predator attacks become more frequent as they are pushed towards the Human Sphere and there are a number of skirmishes before the inevitable team up to combat the xenomorph threat. We don't see things from the Preds' perspective until the second half of the book.
Some of the action takes place on LV-159, which contains a research base and is currently being terraformed with atmosphere processors. The team there study captured Predator tech and even had a live captured specimen they called Eve, but it killed itself by 'willing its own hearts to stop.' The base is run by 'ArmoTech' which is the company's branch for researching alien weapons and technology.
A Predator was confirmed to be hunting in Stalingrad in 1943 during World War 2.
Thank you so much for the new info!
This has just gotten so much more interesting for me.
I cannot wait to read this.
That sounds both really weird and also really cool. Not at all what I was expecting. Very much looking forward to getting my hands on this.
I'm curious, are there space battles? If so, what are they like?
And what are the ground battles like? Do humans use the new introduced weaponry introduced in Sea of Sorrows such as the Plasma Rifle and the Plasma Warheads on their ships?
Do Predators use any unique war gear in the book?
Sorry for so many questions, this is something I am excited to learn about.
There are space battles which are pretty good and some ground battles too although I've yet to read too far. The marines have a cloaked ship which I assume was reverse-engineered from Pred tech. I don't have any specifics on what weapons are used but I assume they are quite advanced because the humans seem very evenly matched with the Preds with marines often going one on one and emerging victorious.
No new Pred weapons as of yet.
There doesn't seem to be any connections at all to the previous trilogy other than the The Founder's data is stolen from company data collated with alien samples taken from LV-178.
I think my biggest surprise is that the Preds seem already very well established in this universe which seems strange because this book is now the official introduction of Predators into the alien canon.
How is Predator society portrayed, if by any chance that we have a look into that? I know that some of the old EU material prior to the reboot had some ideas, such as Predators being governed by a Council of Ancients (which I felt was very fitting) as mentioned in AVP Extinction and presumably seen in Chain of Life and Death.
I know that the Hish continuity mentioned a Conclave where there was a Predator leader who was consulted by heads of different clan representatives.
So do these Predators in the new EU follow the Council of Ancients idea, or the Conclave or something else?
Also.. since these Predators are supposed to be Yautja, can we assume there are male and female gendered Predators? Cause after the whole Hish mess, that just got everything and eveyone confused.
So, basically, in the Perry era, Predators were worryingly close to being klingons. In the Lebbon era, they literally have become klingons...
And now it sounds like these 'Founders' are on the way to becoming the Borg.
In awe, I am not.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Sep 27, 2015, 09:48:37 PM
So, basically, in the Perry era, Predators were worryingly close to being klingons. In the Lebbon era, they literally have become klingons...
A friend of mine had discussed that on Facebook with me.. Hmm..
I don't know what to make of this.. I just don't like how.. Trekked or Effect this has become. Another friend of mine said they're going the Halo route. Not too sure what he meant by that.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 27, 2015, 10:11:24 PM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Sep 27, 2015, 09:48:37 PM
So, basically, in the Perry era, Predators were worryingly close to being klingons. In the Lebbon era, they literally have become klingons...
A friend of mine had discussed that on Facebook with me.. Hmm..
I don't know what to make of this.. I just don't like how.. Trekked or Effect this has become. Another friend of mine said they're going the Halo route. Not too sure what he meant by that.
Must be the "slug alien" that Batman has mentioned.
When I told my friend on the phone who is a HALO fan, he said jokingly "Flood".
As for your earlier question about Predators having genders, I am curious too seeing as how Batman mentioned there was a captive Predator named "Eve" who killed itself by "willing its hearts to stop" (interesting that they have multiple hearts. For some reason, I imagined them as having three hearts which are positioned in the same way their aiming lasers are inside their chest cavity, two besides the lungs and one positioned higher up between them)
As for "Eve", why would they name it Eve? Eve was a woman. If it was male, it would've been named "Adam" or something.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 27, 2015, 10:11:24 PM
A friend of mine had discussed that on Facebook with me.. Hmm..
I don't know what to make of this.. I just don't like how.. Trekked or Effect this has become. Another friend of mine said they're going the Halo route. Not too sure what he meant by that.
Well, '
Mass Effect' is more like an amalgam/tribute to lots of other existing things. This sounds like '
Star Trek' with a fuel war analogy thrown in.
I'm not sure how those measurements of the 'human sphere' tally with Ripley's relatively slow (and
very sub-light) glide in her escape shuttle, either.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Sep 27, 2015, 10:20:03 PM
Must be the "slug alien" that Batman has mentioned.
That's what struck me as Borg-like:
Spoiler
No clear definition over whether it's organic or mechanical, with technology which 'upgrades' existing stuff. Somewhat predictably, I suspect these 'Founders' will use this technology for everything and then there'll be the usual you-think-you're-in-control-but-it-really-controls-you debacle. That part could be seen as very much like 'Mass Effect', with how Reaper technology affected anyone who spent time around it.
QuoteAs for "Eve", why would they name it Eve? Eve was a woman. If it was male, it would've been named "Adam" or something.
Presumably because it
is female.
This book sounds quite different than what I was expecting, but I don't see that as a bad thing, as long as it's well-written. One thing about the Founders that caught my interest
Spoiler
is how the alien that builds and expands their ship vaguely reminds me of V'ger from Star Trek: The Motion Picture. Not a bad thing, per se, just interesting.
I'm looking forward to seeing what winds up happening with this far-future 'verse.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Sep 27, 2015, 10:20:03 PM
As for your earlier question about Predators having genders, I am curious too seeing as how Batman mentioned there was a captive Predator named "Eve" who killed itself by "willing its hearts to stop" (interesting that they have multiple hearts. For some reason, I imagined them as having three hearts which are positioned in the same way their aiming lasers are inside their chest cavity, two besides the lungs and one positioned higher up between them)
Predators have multiple hearts now? I know they're alien but.. Kind of radical there. I mean wasn't there a game where they had implied they only had one heart or something? I mean I know AVP2 mentioned that there was one Predator who died of a heart attack due to it's wristblades being connected to it's arteries but I don't recall a mention of one or more hearts.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 27, 2015, 10:29:13 PM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Sep 27, 2015, 10:20:03 PM
As for your earlier question about Predators having genders, I am curious too seeing as how Batman mentioned there was a captive Predator named "Eve" who killed itself by "willing its hearts to stop" (interesting that they have multiple hearts. For some reason, I imagined them as having three hearts which are positioned in the same way their aiming lasers are inside their chest cavity, two besides the lungs and one positioned higher up between them)
Predators have multiple hearts now? I know they're alien but.. Kind of radical there. I mean wasn't there a game where they had implied they only had one heart or something? I mean I know AVP2 mentioned that there was one Predator who died of a heart attack due to it's wristblades being connected to it's arteries but I don't recall a mention of one or more hearts.
I see what you mean.
To me, the multiple hearts thing makes sense when you see just how active the Predators are. I never actually seen a Predator stop for a moment to take a breather after all the jumping and running. ;D
Plus seeing as how really durable they are, makes sense to some extent to have some multiple organs.
I found it funny when someone above said Predators are now Klingons because guess who else has multiple redundant vital organs? You guessed it, Klingons.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Sep 27, 2015, 11:04:40 PM
I see what you mean.
To me, the multiple hearts thing makes sense when you see just how active the Predators are. I never actually seen a Predator stop for a moment to take a breather after all the jumping and running. ;D
Plus seeing as how really durable they are, makes sense to some extent to have some multiple organs.
I found it funny when someone above said Predators are now Klingons because guess who else has multiple redundant vital organs? You guessed it, Klingons.
The whole redundant organs thing make sense but it just... I mean yes, it does make sense but it definitely gives them this very Klingon feeling which makes me think it's kind of hamfisted. I mean I've even contemplated and speculated that they had something like what the Klingon's had, but the way it seems kind of pulled off. It does make sense, and I find it something hard to argue against.
As for Predators needing to take breathers compared to humans.. I mean I do know that active human beings, especially in peak conditioning can last a pretty long time. What's the longest duration a human in peak conditioning has lasted active for?
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 27, 2015, 11:09:40 PM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Sep 27, 2015, 11:04:40 PM
I see what you mean.
To me, the multiple hearts thing makes sense when you see just how active the Predators are. I never actually seen a Predator stop for a moment to take a breather after all the jumping and running. ;D
Plus seeing as how really durable they are, makes sense to some extent to have some multiple organs.
I found it funny when someone above said Predators are now Klingons because guess who else has multiple redundant vital organs? You guessed it, Klingons.
The whole redundant organs thing make sense but it just... I mean yes, it does make sense but it definitely gives them this very Klingon feeling which makes me think it's kind of hamfisted. I mean I've even contemplated and speculated that they had something like what the Klingon's had, but the way it seems kind of pulled off. It does make sense, and I find it something hard to argue against.
As for Predators needing to take breathers compared to humans.. I mean I do know that active human beings, especially in peak conditioning can last a pretty long time. What's the longest duration a human in peak conditioning has lasted active for?
I understand what you mean, when I first saw the word "hearts", I was a bit surprised but was quick to accept it and realized how much it made sense. Plus it makes them more 'alien' biologically speaking. Also, you know how it "willed its hearts to stop", have you heard of the old comic "Predator: Captive"? Where a live Predator was captured and studied (more like HE studied the humans since he freely left his cell and returned), in this comic, the Predator faked its death by laying down and all of its vital signs were blank and the humans thought it was dead (apart from the head of security guy who asked "what if its playing Possum?")
So, this "Eve" could've pulled off the same trick, but she knew no one would come to her rescue and stayed 'semi-dead' for too long until death came for her.
As for your second question, I am not too sure how long a human has lasted, but the mental image of a Predator taking a moment to just take a deep breath is becoming hilarious. "*huff* *huff*, give me a moment, Elder, *huff*"
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Sep 27, 2015, 11:32:57 PM
I understand what you mean, when I first saw the word "hearts", I was a bit surprised but was quick to accept it and realized how much it made sense. Plus it makes them more 'alien' biologically speaking.
I'm having a bit of a hard time accepting it. I understand the logical benefits to having redundant organs but when I think of Yautja, I think of what came before this newer stuff. From what I remember, physiology was never really explored but I do know that the Predators are more or less considered something superhuman, definitely somewhere above peak human.. and if you count the games, definitely superhuman. I mean for God sake, one of them tanked a bazooka point blank in a comic. But hey, this new stuff is supposed to ignore everything which came before.
I suppose I just didn't want an explanation and never really asked for one.. But, it's now there.
I think I am going to wait for Shane's movie or something.. I mean if he decides to explore Predator physiology (I doubt it) and uses this due to a Fox mandate or something, then I'll accept it. It just... I know they're aliens but it just makes me raise an eyebrow even though it does make sense.
I guess it's the Klingon association with those things.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Sep 27, 2015, 11:32:57 PM
Also, you know how it "willed its hearts to stop", have you heard of the old comic "Predator: Captive"? Where a live Predator was captured and studied (more like HE studied the humans since he freely left his cell and returned), in this comic, the Predator faked its death by laying down and all of its vital signs were blank and the humans thought it was dead (apart from the head of security guy who asked "what if its playing Possum?")
I never really read Predator: Captive but I had seen a video of it online. My memory of it is really vague but I do know what you are talking about. Controlling one's vital stats isn't all that unusual. I've heard things where people who were in a deep meditative trance were able to do some wild things with their bodies such as slowing down their breathing, lowering their heart rates, increasing body temperature.. that sort of stuff. Call it extreme self discipline, call it mind over matter.. Whatever. So I don't see anything out of the unusual for Predators to do something like that. Shit if we can do it, why can't they?
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Sep 27, 2015, 11:32:57 PM
As for your second question, I am not too sure how long a human has lasted, but the mental image of a Predator taking a moment to just take a deep breath is becoming hilarious. "*huff* *huff*, give me a moment, Elder, *huff*"
According to this link.. If a human was in peak condition, and I mean peak condition.. we could do some INSANE things.. and that's just with one heart going for us!
http://ashotofadrenaline.net/18-of-the-most-inspiring-feats-of-human-endurance/
I din't have any problem with hearts, because it sounds that way inside their helmets. Didn't one of the sound effect people say they made those noises deliberately to suggest more than one beating heart?
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Sep 28, 2015, 12:17:21 AM
I din't have any problem with hearts, because it sounds that way inside their helmets. Didn't one of the sound effect people say they made those noises deliberately to suggest more than one beating heart?
I never really listened to the commentary of the DVDs unless it was for something needed for a nerd debate. But as for the heart beating thing.. I always thought that was just them listening to the heart beat of other lifeforms, and just an audio effect.
But I just thought of this now... if the three hearts physiology is there, then how come there are two instances of Predators getting killed by being stabbed in the heart region? I mean Harrigan used the smart disc to tear through Ghost's sternum and presumably his heart (I maybe mistake in this one) but Wolf was killed by being stabbed through the back and definitely pierced through the heart..
Now if the three hearts thing were to come to play, wouldn't that keep them alive enough to get medical attention? Now, unless the two hearts serve as some other function, where as the central heart is the main one.. I'm trying to figure this out. Someone better explain how such a cardiac function could work like that?
Xenomorphine, you have a good point there. I never thought too deep into that but now it makes sense.
Also the latest AvP game had a rather rapid sounding and loud heartbeat when you go into vision mode. I mean, compare our heart rate to that... It sound real fast and powerful.
As for Predators tanking a bazooka Rakai, remember that Yautja are good at taking blunt explosive damage especially from the twenty first century.
But "Oomans" seem to be catching up real fast as the centuries go by.
As much as I like the idea of them being more advanced than us, I gotta admit, I also like the idea of us slowly becoming equal to them eventually.
I thought it was common knowledge Predators have three hearts? Isn't the sound we hear in pred vision the triple heartbeat?
Anyway, some more details...
Spoiler
The alien planetoid the Founders raid and find the 'slug' alien belongs to the dog-aliens from Out of the Shadows. There are fossilised remains of the dog aliens left behind. The founders name this planetoid 'Midsummer.'
The founders also find an alien gel they use to extend their lifespan, although it causes mutations to their bodies. It is speculated this substance is how they weaponise the xenomorphs.
Whilst raiding Midsummer they find hordes of Alien eggs and hibernating aliens which are all brought on board the Macbeth and undisclosed experiments are performed on them before the Macbeth and the Hamlet start heading back towards the Human Sphere.
Beatrix Maloney revolted and killed Wordsworth, this is when The Founders became The Rage. Liliya was loyal to Wordsworth and wishes to revolt. She takes an assault ship and tries to flee back to the human sphere to warn them of the impending attack. Her ship is later intercepted by a Yautja warship led by a female Predator named Hashori of the widow clan. The ship is called the Zeere Za.
Maloney has three androids working under her, each named after a military general, Napoleon, Alexander and Patton. The xenos are divided up between each of them and they are all marked on their heads with the name of their respective commander.
Hashori begins torturing Liliya because she recognises her ship as belonging to The Founders, and therefore the same people who unleashed the weaponised xenomorphs onto the Yautja, which in turn forced them to flee towards the Human Sphere.
When the weaponised aliens eventually attack the Zeere Za, Hashori ends up saving Liliya and they flee on an escape ship before they blow up the Zeere Za. They are headed to the Human Sphere where the rest of the Yautja are regrouping and Liliya reveals she has the technology in her veins that controls and weaponises the xenos.
I was a little mistaken earlier, we don't really get any Predator POV at all, we just get snippets of their translated conversations when monitored by humans. The translators are primitive and the Yautja speak in many different levels of dialogue, some of which can't be understood at all. Hashori is really the only 'character' predator in the story, the rest are just nameless grunts, apart from a couple who raid the research station on LV-159. These are given names by the marines watching them.
One of the scientists on LV-159 is a Yautja expert and is able to send a message in their language offering a ceasefire and to work together to repel the xeno invasion.
When both sides eventually meet at what is basically a peace conference, the Yautja are represented by an elder named Kalakta who is from the six hundred and seventy-seventh elder clan. And get this, we have what appears to be a Predator 2 reference!! I'll post the quote and let you guys decide for yourselves...
"...born long...ten thousand suns. My parent group... Ascendance was on your Earth, in a city of... and heat. A man with dark skin... worthy opponent. I have hunted through... and taken many human trophies."
As for how they are portrayed we don't really find out much about them. There are the usual references to clans. They refer to the xenomorphs as 'fire-lizards.' They treasure memories and their own history more than any physical thing and view every individual Yautja death as a tragedy, wiping out centuries of experience and history. Every death takes away part of that story.
But other than that, we don't get much else.
I'll sign off with one last thing which I'm assuming was a pre-planned yet very nice gesture. The marines begin picking up signals from long-lost ships returning to the human sphere from the outer rim. One of them is called the Aaron-Percival....
So these Yautja call the Xenomorphs Fire-Lizards, where as Perry's Yautja call them the Hard Meat.. One could argue that this is a difference in dialogue (as a Hispanic American, there are different dialects of Spanish so.. this does make sense).
Yeah, there are differences between these versions.. some similarities but definitely notable differences. Perry's Predators viewed the death of individual Hunters as something meant to be moved on from and even had something of an appreciation for it.. where as Lebbon's Predators have a more mournful view of it.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Sep 28, 2015, 12:54:01 AM
I thought it was common knowledge Predators have three hearts? Isn't the sound we hear in pred vision the triple heartbeat?
No.. no it wasn't. I didn't know about it. Was this mentioned in commentary in any of the five Predator films (Yes, AVP films included) and which of the films? None of the comics or pre-reboot novels mention any of this. None of the games either.
Hmm, not sure then. I've definitely heard it called the triple heartbeat sound before though. Hell, I even remember asking Colin Strause myself in the build up to AVPR if the triple heartbeat was back after it was missing from the first AVP. But for the life of me I can't think where it originated from.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Sep 28, 2015, 01:15:07 AM
Hmm, not sure then. I've definitely heard it called the triple heartbeat sound before though. Hell, I even remember asking Colin Strause myself in the build up to AVPR if the triple heartbeat was back after it was missing from the first AVP. But for the life of me I can't think where it originated from.
Here is the thing about commentary, most people often don't listen to it or read it and sometimes it doesn't reflect what's on the screen. Some people choose to only go by what's on screen and audio, and for a lot of people-- the whole triple heart thing doesn't come to people's minds when they hear the sounds from the Predator's POV. I mean I didn't know about this.. I'm still having a hard time believing and accepting it.
Honestly, I am not too sure what to think of Lebbon's Yautja. When I think of Yautja, I think of the ones which the Perry's came up with and for me that's what sticks. I mean.. I know they use the Yautja name but they don't feel like Yautja to me. I mean there are similarities, and differences but I wouldn't go about saying they're meant to be the same versions.
Indeed, and in this particular instance it adds nothing to the story. I don't see why they were not just referred to as Hunters or Predators.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Sep 28, 2015, 01:28:49 AM
Indeed, and in this particular instance it adds nothing to the story. I don't see why they were not just referred to as Hunters or Predators.
I agree, and... you know I am very finicky about how the Yautja are portrayed. To me, the Perry's had set the standard and how they are meant to be portrayed. The thing is, everyone has their own versions of what Predators are supposed to be. We've got Perry's Yautja, Shirely's Hish, and now Lebbon's Yautja.
I feel as if these Predators are a little too soft.. even by "Yautja" standards if they are having direct communications with humans and having peace conferences. Perry's Yautja, as far as I am aware.. would be a lot harder for that to happen as far as I know. I mean even if we look at Hunter's Planet, there was some blood shed going on directly before an uneasy true-- and I mean a very uneasy true. Three World War also had that happen too. Shit, they were even sore about Marines getting a hold of Killer clan tech, and those were two opposing clans.
It's like comparing the different versions of Godzilla, so to speak.. we got three different animals here.. or interpretations of Predators here. I suppose this would be the "relevant" ones where as the Perry's version is it's own thing.
I suspect a disc-shaped chainsaw ripping through your thorax would kill most things, regardless of how many hearts are in there. :)
It's interesting physiology, but it could be that they need three because they're potentially small. Maybe human hearts are typically two or three times larger.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Sep 28, 2015, 03:10:59 AM
I suspect a disc-shaped chainsaw ripping through your thorax would kill most things, regardless of how many hearts are in there. :)
That's true regarding the smart disc, but the same couldn't be said about the PredAlien's tail. I mean I'm sure there are other mediums showing where Predator's get stabbed in the chest and either off quickly, or slowly like we saw in AVP-R.
But if what TheBATMAN said about the Predators being implied to having three hearts is true from Predator to AVP-R, based on what he said, then the three hearts physiology has always been there but no one really knew about it unless they listened to commentary. Can we get a verbatim quote from this commentary mention here?
And this is where I bow out of this thread until I get my copy.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 28, 2015, 03:25:21 AM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Sep 28, 2015, 03:10:59 AM
I suspect a disc-shaped chainsaw ripping through your thorax would kill most things, regardless of how many hearts are in there. :)
That's true regarding the smart disc, but the same couldn't be said about the PredAlien's tail. I mean I'm sure there are other mediums showing where Predator's get stabbed in the chest and either off quickly, or slowly like we saw in AVP-R.
But if what TheBATMAN said about the Predators being implied to having three hearts is true from Predator to AVP-R, based on what he said, then the three hearts physiology has always been there but no one really knew about it unless they listened to commentary. Can we get a verbatim quote from this commentary mention here?
I remember in "South China Sea", a huge anaconda sized worm went through a Predator's chest, impaling him. He cut off each end and continued fighting until he went back to his ship and removed it from his chest.
Perhaps three hearts could REALLY help in a situation like that. ;D
The reason he survived may be because the worm was lodged in, while in P2, Harrigan literally gutted City Hunter open like a fish. I doubt even Yautja are made to be cut open like that.
Batman, you know how you said Hashori is a female? How are female Yautja portrayed in the novel? Are they larger than the males? I like how Hashori is in charge of the Widow Clan, reminds me of the old lore I used to read and how females are usually in charge of running things while the males hunt.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Sep 28, 2015, 12:15:28 PM
I remember in "South China Sea", a huge anaconda sized worm went through a Predator's chest, impaling him. He cut off each end and continued fighting until he went back to his ship and removed it from his chest.
Well the redundant organs thing does have some benefits, especially for creatures who were meant for strenuous physical activity such as fighting and killing. No problem with that there. It does explain a lot, and I don't have much of a problem with it to where it infuriates me but it's kind of weird to me. I mean I've always accepted as Predators having some form of superhuman durability, especially with the old lore mentioning that they had skin which was rough and thick to where it could withstand small bullets. A natural form of light armor protection, I suppose. Also, I remember the old lore mentioning that the bones of Predators were denser than a human being's skeleton.. unless I am mistaken about that.
I haven't read South China Sea but the endurance and durability feats of that Predator were
INSANE. I've read little snippets about it for gathering feats of the Predators (I used this research for nerd debates) to see exactly how powerful they were prior to the EU reboot. I mean Predator physiology is definitely unique in all interpretations.. Hish included. I mean in AVP2, there was mentioning of how a Predator's wristblades were somehow connected to their cardiac system and forced removal of it induced heart attacks, not to mention the immunity system of Predators were strong enough to fight off a strain of Anthrax like it was the common cold.
I've always known that the Predators were in the superhuman range because of their physiology, and I never really questioned it. I just accepted it as it was and quite content with it. The three hearts thing does indeed work... there are practical implications to it. I don't have an issue with it but to me it's just... weird. Yeah... that's the right word.
Weird.
Or maybe it's the whole presentation of it.. like Xenomorphine said, it made them Klingon's in a sense and I suppose that's where my difficulty with accepting that is.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Sep 28, 2015, 12:15:28 PM
Perhaps three hearts could REALLY help in a situation like that. ;D
Redundant organs could indeed help but I've always believed that the Yautja, especially in the old Perry versions, have had some sort of psuedo-healing factor. I believe in Prey that it was mentioned by Meriam Revna, that Dachande had suffered some broken ribs here and there. How many, I'm not entirely sure but I do know that it was enough to slow him down a little bit. She also mentioned that his physiology was like nothing she ever saw before, and that within three days his ribs were healing up already. Later on in Dachande's point of view, he mentions in his thoughts that he is quite aware of his surroundings, even with his eyes closed and needed more time healing and focused on that. To me... that implied meditative healing.
Shhh,... listen. ..... I smell Dune..
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 28, 2015, 03:50:52 PM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Sep 28, 2015, 12:15:28 PM
I remember in "South China Sea", a huge anaconda sized worm went through a Predator's chest, impaling him. He cut off each end and continued fighting until he went back to his ship and removed it from his chest.
Well the redundant organs thing does have some benefits, especially for creatures who were meant for strenuous physical activity such as fighting and killing. No problem with that there. It does explain a lot, and I don't have much of a problem with it to where it infuriates me but it's kind of weird to me. I mean I've always accepted as Predators having some form of superhuman durability, especially with the old lore mentioning that they had skin which was rough and thick to where it could withstand small bullets. A natural form of light armor protection, I suppose. Also, I remember the old lore mentioning that the bones of Predators were denser than a human being's skeleton.. unless I am mistaken about that.
I haven't read South China Sea but the endurance and durability feats of that Predator were INSANE. I've read little snippets about it for gathering feats of the Predators (I used this research for nerd debates) to see exactly how powerful they were prior to the EU reboot. I mean Predator physiology is definitely unique in all interpretations.. Hish included. I mean in AVP2, there was mentioning of how a Predator's wristblades were somehow connected to their cardiac system and forced removal of it induced heart attacks, not to mention the immunity system of Predators were strong enough to fight off a strain of Anthrax like it was the common cold.
I've always known that the Predators were in the superhuman range because of their physiology, and I never really questioned it. I just accepted it as it was and quite content with it. The three hearts thing does indeed work... there are practical implications to it. I don't have an issue with it but to me it's just... weird. Yeah... that's the right word.
Weird.
Or maybe it's the whole presentation of it.. like Xenomorphine said, it made them Klingon's in a sense and I suppose that's where my difficulty with accepting that is.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Sep 28, 2015, 12:15:28 PM
Perhaps three hearts could REALLY help in a situation like that. ;D
Redundant organs could indeed help but I've always believed that the Yautja, especially in the old Perry versions, have had some sort of psuedo-healing factor. I believe in Prey that it was mentioned by Meriam Revna, that Dachande had suffered some broken ribs here and there. How many, I'm not entirely sure but I do know that it was enough to slow him down a little bit. She also mentioned that his physiology was like nothing she ever saw before, and that within three days his ribs were healing up already. Later on in Dachande's point of view, he mentions in his thoughts that he is quite aware of his surroundings, even with his eyes closed and needed more time healing and focused on that. To me... that implied meditative healing.
I am also well versed in the lore you have resented me with, my personal favourite was the idea behind them fighting the viruses that were introduced to their bodies (I believe General Rykov added more than just Anthrax). He planned to infect them with some deadly illness for them to take back to their people without realizing the possibility of Predators being able to discover a cure.
Another thing I liked was Yautja having mild telepathic abilities, now hear me out, I don't mean it in the usual sense. I remembered reading somewhere that disc masters could control their devices with their minds. To me, it felt like they had the technology to link their minds with their tool and through focus, shift it to good use. I don't mean full blown telekinesis or any of that stuff.
I also liked the idea that someone here presented that the masks link to the mind by reading "brain waves" and the Predator can "think" it to change vision modes rather than clicking buttons with its mandibles (since I haven't seen any inner buttons on the masks we've seen from the inside)
Now granted, in P2, the Predator used his wrist combuter. That must've been a lower quality mask, but higher quality masks and discs or other tools that can pick up their user's brain waves sounds very alien-ish to me and gives the Yautja a deceptively advanced piece of machinery to wield.
I do look forward to seeing how Lebbon's ideas flesh out the Yautja. To me, these small differences mean nothing as when you think about it, Perry and Lebbon's Yautja are both very similar and even have genders. So it could all be different clan customs. This clan may be a lot more lenient as opposed to the ones Machiko Noguchi ran into for example.
I am just curious to see how the females are described in Lebbon's book, are they larger and stronger? That sort of thing.
A heart isn't the only organ in a body. Living things can die from damage to lungs and all sorts of other stuff, too (not to mention haemorrhaging from arteries being cut open on the inside). Predators don't have a thorax which gives
very much more room for 'improvement', compared to our own.
I mean, just look at how many scientists thought Shaw's actions in '
Prometheus' after the surgery scene would have killed her. Nothing happened to her heart.
Example at about 27 minutes in on there:
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Sep 28, 2015, 07:26:48 PM
Predators don't have a thorax which gives very much more room for 'improvement', compared to our own.
The thorax is the chest region, which is something we happen to have.. Are you saying that Predators don't have a chest region? I'm.. lost here. Can you put it in layman's terms for me here or something? I'm interpreting this kind of all wrong here. If they don't have a chest region, where would their sternum and ribs be? I mean even Perry's Predators had ribs according to Dr. Meriam Revna.
I hope I am interpreting this all wrong here from what you're trying to tell me.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 28, 2015, 10:01:03 PM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Sep 28, 2015, 07:26:48 PM
Predators don't have a thorax which gives very much more room for 'improvement', compared to our own.
The thorax is the chest region, which is something we happen to have.. Are you saying that Predators don't have a chest region? I'm.. lost here. Can you put it in layman's terms for me here or something? I'm interpreting this kind of all wrong here. If they don't have a chest region, where would their sternum and ribs be? I mean even Perry's Predators had ribs according to Dr. Meriam Revna.
I hope I am interpreting this all wrong here from what you're trying to tell me.
Thanks Rakai, you taught me a new meaning for "thorax" today.
I thought it was something bugs had as part of their body segment at first, so I did a quick google search and found this definition.
"the part of the body of a mammal between the neck and the abdomen, including the cavity enclosed by the ribs, breastbone, and dorsal vertebrae, and containing the chief organs of circulation and respiration; the chest."
So yeah, humans (and it looks like Predators as well) have a thorax according to that definition.
Basically a fancy word for chest.
Xenomorphine does have a point, you don't need to destroy the heart in order to kill something. City Hunter could've been killed by other major organs being damaged (alongside one of his hearts too). But the fact that he remained standing for so long and was able to do that ear shattering death scream shows insane durability and dedication on his part.
Thanks again for the info, theBATMAN. I have so little willpower where easily obtainable spoilers are concerned that I read it all. :laugh: My first reaction is surprise that Fox let Lebbon tell such a different type of story to what we usually get in this universe. That being said, I can't wait to read it for myself, and to see what other crazy things wind up happening in the sequels. I really need to go through my storage unit and get my copies of the last trilogy to re-read as a primer.
One small thing...
Spoiler
an alien gel that allows the Rage to control the xenos but causes mutations? Hmmmmm.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Sep 28, 2015, 10:13:12 PM
Xenomorphine does have a point, you don't need to destroy the heart in order to kill something. City Hunter could've been killed by other major organs being damaged (alongside one of his hearts too). But the fact that he remained standing for so long and was able to do that ear shattering death scream shows insane durability and dedication on his part.
I obviously know that there are vital organs to target aside from the heart, but I would think that the triple heart physiology would allow Lebbon's Yautja (to distinct them from Perry's Yautja, I will refer to the two as such) to survive such grievous wounds which would kill a normal human being. I mean I'm picturing something different, I would think that let's say someone stabs a Predator through one of these hearts.. and he's not going down. He's lost one heart, but is still alive cause the other two are still working and taking over where the destroyed one can't.
I am no medical expert, and I am not too sure on how redundant organs would work per se. So I maybe wrong in thinking how I am thinking such things could work. But I am sure that targeting other vital organs such as the stomach, brain, lungs, spinal column would be able to kill Lebbon's Yautja.
I mean they're just as mortal as us.. the only difference is they can clearly tank more damage than we can by a WIDE margain.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Sep 28, 2015, 10:21:00 PM
Thanks again for the info, theBATMAN. I have so little willpower where easily obtainable spoilers are concerned that I read it all. :laugh: My first reaction is surprise that Fox let Lebbon tell such a different type of story to what we usually get in this universe. That being said, I can't wait to read it for myself, and to see what other crazy things wind up happening in the sequels. I really need to go through my storage unit and get my copies of the last trilogy to re-read as a primer.
One small thing...
Spoiler
an alien gel that allows the Rage to control the xenos but causes mutations? Hmmmmm.
Same here. I am like a child when it comes to waiting for something I like to come out. If it were up to me, I'd want this book out now, no, not now, YESTERDAY!
So all the little bits that Batman kindly shares with us is greatly appreciated. I go into such fanboy mode on the inside as I am reading these spoilers, it gets me all the more excited. Batman should become a marketing advertiser for Fox and just spoil us two with anything AvP related. We'd insta-buy it anyway. ;D
Spoiler
As for the gel, hmm, it controls Aliens? I thought it was only implied to extend human lifespans at the cost of causing mutations. It's interesting. I love how similar the Dog-Aliens are to the Engineers. I love how this "slug" alien belonged to them as well. They are so advanced that they can improve existing alien tech such as ours. I am even more interested in them now!
If Book I was this out-there, I'm dying to see what Lebbon has up his sleeves for the next two novels.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Sep 28, 2015, 10:48:07 PM
If Book I was this out-there, I'm dying to see what Lebbon has up his sleeves for the next two novels.
I have been waiting ever since this has been announced. The closer we get, the more painful the wait is!
I am also excited for the next two novels. I am starting to love this new direction that Lebbon is going in.
I wasn't saying Predators don't have a chest, I was saying it isn't that much bigger than our own. Ergo, if they have three hearts, it stands to reason they'd be individually smaller to fit in there.
And if one of them was penetrated, that's still going to cause massive internal bleeding. There might be another two to take over the same job, but the resulting internal bleeding should kill.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Sep 28, 2015, 11:58:39 PM
I wasn't saying Predators don't have a chest, I was saying it isn't that much bigger than our own. Ergo, if they have three hearts, it stands to reason they'd be individually smaller to fit in there.
Oh.. like.. Turtles? I mean don't Turtles proportionally have smaller vital organs and more muscle mass compared to humans?
....That's the first thing that came to mind when you mentioned smaller organs.
For the people that have read it, without much spoilers: how are the preds shown? yautja or hish in behavior? are they used as cannon fodder? are they easily killed by humans?
Quote from: Samhain13 on Sep 30, 2015, 09:46:03 PM
For the people that have read it, without much spoilers: how are the preds shown? yautja or hish in behavior? are they used as cannon fodder? are they easily killed by humans?
They are referred to as Yautja, but they are not necessarily Perry's versions. Lebbon's Yautja are different but that's not to say they aren't reconcilable with Perry's versions without a little tweaking of course.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Sep 28, 2015, 11:58:39 PM
I wasn't saying Predators don't have a chest, I was saying it isn't that much bigger than our own. Ergo, if they have three hearts, it stands to reason they'd be individually smaller to fit in there.
And if one of them was penetrated, that's still going to cause massive internal bleeding. There might be another two to take over the same job, but the resulting internal bleeding should kill.
Predator durability woild really be at the discretion of the writer
As mentioned, in South China Sea, some sort if metal worm, the size of an anaconda, bores through the pred's chest...he survives and continues fighting before healing himself aboard his ship.
Realistic or not, the author just wanted to establish how hard to kill the predator was
Quote from: happypred on Oct 04, 2015, 11:43:36 PM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Sep 28, 2015, 11:58:39 PM
I wasn't saying Predators don't have a chest, I was saying it isn't that much bigger than our own. Ergo, if they have three hearts, it stands to reason they'd be individually smaller to fit in there.
And if one of them was penetrated, that's still going to cause massive internal bleeding. There might be another two to take over the same job, but the resulting internal bleeding should kill.
Predator durability woild really be at the discretion of the writer
As mentioned, in South China Sea, some sort if metal worm, the size of an anaconda, bores through the pred's chest...he survives and continues fighting before healing himself aboard his ship.
Realistic or not, the author just wanted to establish how hard to kill the predator was
Exactly, meanwhile in AvP, a Predator dies from a Xenomorph tail going through its chest. I guess it depends on some factors.
Some humans no doubt survive ridiculous stuff that'd normally kill another human. Maybe that Predator was just one tough mofo. How is he even beaten in South China Sea?
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 05, 2015, 10:50:09 AM
How is he even beaten in South China Sea?
Last time I heard, it was being caught in the jaws of an exceptionally large Crocodile similarly to Gustav.
LOL...no
A massive explosion obliterates Gustaf, him, and his ship
I just ordered my copy of Predator Incursion. I can't wait to give it a read.
Same here, pre-ordered it off Amazon. :)
I dunno what it is, but I just can't seem to get excited for this book. I was really hyped for the last round but this one just isn't doing that for me.
Maybe it's just because I have such a backlog of books to read already.
My fear is that Lebbon doesn't get the predators or that he consciously departs too far from the earlier material
To me, the defining characteristics of the predators are
Technologically advanced but culturally primitive
Savage, nomadic hunters
Enshrine a brutal code of honour
...but hypocrisy, cowardice, jealousy, ambition, and "dishonourable" conduct is rather endemic in predator society as hunters are often able to get away with a lot of bloodthirsty butchery and backstabbing
I'm pretty excited but man that cover art makes it look so cheap & throwaway.
Quote from: 8BA on Oct 09, 2015, 10:42:34 PM
I'm pretty excited but man that cover art makes it look so cheap & throwaway.
I see what you mean.
Personally, I am not too bothered by the cover, but I wonder why he has a mask that looks like Wolf's (same goes for why the Elite had the Wolf mask in AvP 2010 game). Maybe it's a symbolic mask signifying a certain role.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 09, 2015, 10:45:51 PM
Personally, I am not too bothered by the cover, but I wonder why he has a mask that looks like Wolf's (same goes for why the Elite had the Wolf mask in AvP 2010 game). Maybe it's a symbolic mask signifying a certain role.
I wouldn't read too much into the cover, or even the skins. I mean in the case of the skins... I think those were done as homages to the character. As for the cover, same reason why we got Scar and Celtic on the covers for the Hish mythos series. Nothing more, nothing less.
I JUST CAN'T BELIEVE THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE ME BUY A pREDATOR NOVEL. I MEAN I HAVE NO CHOICE IN THE MATTER. (Oh oops, Caps lock :-[ ) Any way, I need my fix of Aliens stories so seeing as how I'm not going to jump into the last 2 novels, I guess I have to read this. No offense to the Pred fans out there. Honestly, I gave it a chance but nothing got me seriously hooked. I did like the original Warner, Verheiden series from DH, but it went downhill from there.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Oct 09, 2015, 10:58:01 PM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 09, 2015, 10:45:51 PM
Personally, I am not too bothered by the cover, but I wonder why he has a mask that looks like Wolf's (same goes for why the Elite had the Wolf mask in AvP 2010 game). Maybe it's a symbolic mask signifying a certain role.
I wouldn't read too much into the cover, or even the skins. I mean in the case of the skins... I think those were done as homages to the character. As for the cover, same reason why we got Scar and Celtic on the covers for the Hish mythos series. Nothing more, nothing less.
^This, I've read a LOT of books in my time and what's out on the cover often had to do with marketing purposes; do you think the publisher will pay hundreds of dollars for an artist to design a completely new Predator or do you think they'll just rehash old designs? A lot of times, the covers or other promotional material fail to even accurately portray the characters in a story; in one book I read, a woman is described as black but in the promotional art she was white.
I definitely don't get why they went with an AVPR still for the cover. Maybe they'll do better with the second two. It's nice that it's just over a week until it comes out.
Yeah, I gotta admit, I did kind of like the book covers of the Hish novels and the South China Sea one. They may have re-used some Predator designs, but they were in creative poses and environments.
This one made me think too much of Wolf in the sewers hunting Chet. I still like it, but I wish it did go for a bit more creativity.
But then again, it's the story I'm more interested in.
In a small bit of new, Alien: Invasion was just listed on Amazon US. It has no cover or description yet, but it has a release date of April 26, 2016. Pretty neat that this and Aliens: Defiance #1 come out back-to-back.
http://www.amazon.com/Alien-Invasion-Rage-War-2-ebook/dp/B016GRL46E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1444591583&sr=8-1&keywords=alien+invasion+tim+lebbon (http://www.amazon.com/Alien-Invasion-Rage-War-2-ebook/dp/B016GRL46E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1444591583&sr=8-1&keywords=alien+invasion+tim+lebbon)
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 09, 2015, 10:45:51 PMPersonally, I am not too bothered by the cover, but I wonder why he has a mask that looks like Wolf's.
Because it
is a shot of Wolf. Judging by the sewer background, its a still from
AVPR.
I miss the novels having original overs and not screenshots from other unrelated things.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Oct 12, 2015, 08:05:08 AM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 09, 2015, 10:45:51 PMPersonally, I am not too bothered by the cover, but I wonder why he has a mask that looks like Wolf's.
Because it is a shot of Wolf. Judging by the sewer background, its a still from AVPR.
I miss the novels having original overs and not screenshots from other unrelated things.
Same here, I did like that about the older books.
My local book shop where I ordered Predator: Incursion has just texted me that my book has arrived. I was astounded as I expected it next week, not TODAY.
I am going to go pick it up real soon.
After you're done reading, please let us know whether Lebbon's predators still feel like semi-barbaric hunters
Quote from: happypred on Oct 13, 2015, 04:39:43 AM
After you're done reading, please let us know whether Lebbon's predators still feel like semi-barbaric hunters
From what I've heard, I still prefer Perry's versions. Mind you that just a matter of preference.
Ok, I am three chapters in and I'll do my best.
Spoiler
Chapter 1 (after the Prologue that is available on Amazon) starts in 2692 in the Outer Rims, it is already dealing with the aftermath of a Yautja hunt. A Marine named Johnny Mains is observing a dead Yautja, the place was attacked by two Predators who killed two Marines before being killed.
Now before anyone feels that Yautja are being nerfed, do note that the Marines are using laser rifles, yes, laser, not plasma. Laser travels at the speed of light and I doubt even Yautja can dodge that. Two shots from the laser rifle completely severed the Predator's hand from his wrist and damaged his wrist computer which left the corpse flickering in and out of visibility as the cloaking glitched.
The VoidLarks are monitoring a "Yautja habitat" (which are huge artificial vessels orbiting stars, probably large motherships that are being stationary) and the two Yautja that attacked them didn't come from this mothership.
One thing I noted that made the four attackers (another pair of Yautja attacked somewhere else) similar to Perry's Yautja is the fact that they can be assholes during the hunt. A Marine gave her life protecting a man and his two children from one of the Predators. The book says that during the heat of the hunt, a Predator can get a bit too carried away and kill everything quickly and efficiently while other individuals can get a bit more sadistic and barbaric.
Already in chapter one, a Marine was trophied.
Chapter two takes place on LV-1529, which is being terraformed by Weyland-Yutani but is also the best place for research on Yautja as it's in the outer rims. The scientist lady (I'll leave her name for you guys to find out) is obsessed and fascinated with all things Predator, she could barely hold her excitement in when two of the Yautja bodies from chapter one are brought to her.
However, she is genuinely fascinated, not in a "mad scientist" way. She wants to actually communicate and understand these enigmatic creatures, yes, enigmatic. Yautja are described as elusive loners and the woman speculates that they only gather into large groups for social rituals or ceremonies and even for mating purposes, but that's her speculation. Despite knowing a bit of their language, humans still know squat all about the Predators. Speaking of language, the main Marine's ship computer (called "Frodo") mentions how its trying tot translate the Yautja signal but the dialect is so different that it can only guess it's a countdown, when asked how it knows, Frodo says "it's just a hunch".
The thing I liked is how terrified the humans in chapter one were, and rightfully so. Despite our advancements, the Yautja are still the boogiemen of space. While we "Monitor" their communications (which are very brief), the further we expand into space, the more they tend to notice us.
I personally think that Lebbon is treating the Yautja with a level of respect. He is not going over the top, he is treating it realistically and sensibly. So there's no instances of them doing ridiculous things like Hish are said to do.
However, one thing that is mentioned in the book is that when Yautja attack large population centres, they take captives, but for what purposes, we do not know. I suspect they might experiment on the captives. I am too early in the book to know, it might be told later on.
One of the Weyland-Yutani Thirteen executives contacts the scientist woman who is obsessed with Yautja and speaks to her about the bodies that she's been given to experiment on. He tells her to "think about" a scenario where the Predators truly attack us, and she said that "they're not like that, their society is not structured in such a way" and how there is a "honesty" to them that isn't presented in us humans to which the executive says that same honesty got a lot of people killed.
Also, one Colonial Marine who is a self proposed Yautja expert who has been fascinated ever since she was a kid (why are all the ladies fascinated with Yautja? ;D) says that she joined the Marines because she was inspired by the Predator martial culture.
Another scientist woman is obsessed with historical encounters with Predators, she's the one who confirms that a Predator hunted in Stalingrad in 1943.
It's a fascinating book, I will be continuing tomorrow.
On the back of my book, I saw a glimpse of the covers of Alien: Invasion and Aliens vs Predator: Armageddon.
I'll describe them in the spoiler.
Spoiler
Alien: Invasion is of a Xenomorph looking in your direction as it lifts its left hand, almost as if inspecting something. There is a Xenomorph in the background as well and the general environment looks like it's in a hive.
Aliens vs Predator: Armageddon has an Alien and a Predator locked in combat, the background looks quite industrial and there's a bright yellow light coming from the middle.
I just noticed that on the cover art of Aliens vs Predator: Armageddon, the "Aliens" is written as "Alien", yet in the description on the back of my book, it's referred to as "Aliens vs Predator".
Has anyone else got Predator: Incursion early?
Sounds like Lebbon's Yautja more or less could be reconciled with Perry's Yautja but... I'm gonna wait and see what Guan Thwei posts up next in regards to this book. I mean I can see some similarities but to me, that's like trying to compare say.. I don't know.. Pre-Crisis Superman with Post-Crisis Superman. Or better yet.. Post-Crisis with New 52. I don't know. I'm trying to put my thoughts into words which make sense.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Oct 13, 2015, 05:55:17 PM
Sounds like Lebbon's Yautja more or less could be reconciled with Perry's Yautja but... I'm gonna wait and see what Guan Thwei posts up next in regards to this book. I mean I can see some similarities but to me, that's like trying to compare say.. I don't know.. Pre-Crisis Superman with Post-Crisis Superman. Or better yet.. Post-Crisis with New 52. I don't know. I'm trying to put my thoughts into words which make sense.
Another thing I think you may like.
Spoiler
Lebbon's Yautja blood helps heal wounds quickly and assists in regeneration. By regeneration, I don't mean Wolverine style. But it is a very good kind of healing system, the scientist has been studying Earth animals that regenerate in order to try and understand the Yautja accelerated healing.
Could this be a scientific reason as to why it gives long life to humans in the old EU that ate Predators?
That is... kind of weird but cool.. Weird but.. cool. Putting this under spoilers to be safe..
Spoiler
Though I would think that Yautja blood already sort of did that in the old EU. Remember when Li Yat Sen found the dead corpse of a Predator, and he had his rib cage broken in from being beaten by villagers? Also, there is the case of Hunter Borgia, who was a sickly infant until he got splashed with Scarface's blood. So I wouldn't think that's nothing new.
Also, as to Predators having healing capabilities.. Well, we discussed that a few pages ago but in the old EU.. It was mentioned that they had done their healing in a meditative like trance. At least from what Dachande was able to do when he was using those three days to mend his broken rib cage. Also, I think in a novel, that it was stated that Predators could regenerate lost limbs or re-attach them with some medical device but they seldom used them because they considered scars to be prize worthy of telling stories.
Been years since I read the old stuff.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Oct 13, 2015, 06:12:53 PMSpoiler
Also, there is the case of Hunter Borgia, who was a sickly infant until he got splashed with Scarface's blood. So I wouldn't think that's nothing new.
Spoiler
It also unnaturally prolonged his life - Scarface returns a hundred years later and Hunter barely looks mid-thirties.
Oh that I knew, Huda, that I knew! You don't have to remind me of that! :laugh:
Man, Concrete Jungle was a great game.. So many good memories.
I remember those, Rakai. It's good to see this link between the old and new stuff.
I also liked how space travel is treated as still being hard, but much more common now.
Spoiler
The "Drop Holes" are mainly used because physically travelling faster than light requires the extremely rare trimonite. Most ships can go up to five times the speed of light, some seven.
The "Arrow" class ship is the fastest and most advanced, able to go fifteen times the speed of light. There is a rumour that two test pilots didn't go into their pods when they reached just ten times the speed of light.
The final result was two un-moving, very silent raving maniacs with minds that were a hundred and seventy thousand years old or something like that, the warp in space and time really messed them up. The actual trip lasted seventeen days, but they have actually "lived" a hundred and seventy thousand years of literal nothingness psychologically.
So people in the Arrow class ship use a special pod, not a cryo-pod like other ships, but one that encases your entire body in gel, (kind of how some behind the scenes stuff in AvP was meant to show Predators coming out of a stasis gel), this gel protects you from the pure kinetic force of travelling at such a speed.
It feels very uncomfortable as you need to hold your breath once the gel fully engulfs you before you even fall asleep, and once you wake up, your lungs and digestive tract are filled with the gel. The good news is, the gel evaporates the moment it makes contact with air, so a few breaths will clear your lungs... the bad news is, lots and lots of barfing.
We also get some cool zero-gravity moments after the crew wakes up, they turn off the artificial gravity, one Marine asks the commander "no zero-g until I'm done please" as she carries on barfing.
The "Drop Holes" are a much cheaper way of ftl travel, but they are staggeringly expensive and VERY dangerous to build. One in five explodes, in early days, thousands of people died just constructing these things. And then once you complete it, if it doesn't explode, one in three just doesn't work...
The Drop Holes are huge space structures that humans build which utilize anti-matter and particle technology to literally fold space. It is a one way trip and you need to find another Drop Hole (they cannot be near eachother) for your way back. It gives you an instant FTL to your destination, you leave as soon as you enter.
The problem is, there's not many of them in the Human Sphere, that's why LV 1529 is so valuable as a Yautja research station, not only is it in the Outer Rims, but it's near a Weyland-Yutani Drop Hole. Other Drop Holes are owned by human colonies who may charge you to use it, and others will even defend it from you.
Space is still a pain to traverse, even in 2692. Chapter one also begins in March, Chapter two skips to May and Chapter four begins in July. I like that this novel stretches it out across the year a little bit.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 13, 2015, 06:28:56 PM
I remember those, Rakai. It's good to see this link between the old and new stuff.
I wouldn't say it's a direct link anyway, but the similarities are there. I wouldn't doubt if Lebbon got some notes from Fox and just decided to take it from there.
Another thing I forgot to mention, Ultramorph may like this. It's kind of been mentioned before but still.
Spoiler
The book mentions once again how we met several alien races, some friendly, some indifferent, and others that were hostile and we had to fight.
I doubt they are mentioned in these books but are the Super Predators referenced or hinted at all?
Speaking of the Super Predators, I wouldn't mind it if Lebbon had retconned them as the Hish, given that their behaviors are quite similar and attempt to reconcile the two species existing in the same universe in a way. I mean Shirely did say he would've written the two races as cousin races or something.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Oct 13, 2015, 08:14:12 PM
I doubt they are mentioned in these books but are the Super Predators referenced or hinted at all?
Speaking of the Super Predators, I wouldn't mind it if Lebbon had retconned them as the Hish, given that their behaviors are quite similar and attempt to reconcile the two species existing in the same universe in a way. I mean Shirely did say he would've written the two races as cousin races or something.
Not so far.
Spoiler
The scientist lady who was nicknamed "Yautja Woman" by her Marine friend specifically mentions that they are not conquerors.
The only slight Hish like habit was as I previously mentioned
Spoiler
them taking captives when attacking large population centres, however, they are shown as hunting in low numbers so far. I haven't gotten to the part where ships start swarming into human territory. And I highly doubt the captives are used for slave labour or anything of that sort. Maybe they're experimented on (since humans experiment on Yautja so it's fair right?) but I also have a theory... since humans weaponized the Xenomorphs and are attacking Yautja, maybe the captives are being interrogated? I shudder to think what kind of torture rituals they'd be subjected to...
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 13, 2015, 07:53:58 PM
Another thing I forgot to mention, Ultramorph may like this. It's kind of been mentioned before but still.
Spoiler
The book mentions once again how we met several alien races, some friendly, some indifferent, and others that were hostile and we had to fight.
I kind of want a comic or novel about one of those encounters.
Thanks for the info, Guan Thwei. It seems like Lebbon is going to great lengths to do world-building. I wonder what we'll get in the sequels.
How would you rate Lebbon's prose/writing skill?
I hope he's as good as Perry or Vandermeer.
I'm a pretty picky reader but still enjoyed Out of the Shadows. The guy's a pretty competent author, especially given the unlikely premise he was expected to sell. He pulled it off cleverly & stayed engaging to the end.
Of the three new novels I enjoyed Sea of Sorrows by James Moore the most though.
Actually, tbh I never finished River of Pain. I'm planning to pick it back up this week though. I'll probably start over. I don't think I can blame the author though, I had just read two other Alien books & needed a break. Better get back on it before Predator: Incursion arrives at my local bookstore.
Quote from: 8BA on Oct 14, 2015, 12:53:37 AM
I'm a pretty picky reader but still enjoyed Out of the Shadows. The guy's a pretty competent author, especially given the unlikely premise he was expected to sell. He pulled it off cleverly & stayed engaging to the end.
Of the three new novels I enjoyed Sea of Sorrows by James Moore the most though.
Actually, tbh I never finished River of Pain. I'm planning to pick it back up this week though. I'll probably start over. I don't think I can blame the author though, I had just read two other Alien books & needed a break. Better get back on it before Predator: Incursion arrives at my local bookstore.
Really? I think you'll find most people had a hard time getting through SOS. So many similar 2-D characters and repetitive situations.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Oct 13, 2015, 10:55:47 PM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 13, 2015, 07:53:58 PM
Another thing I forgot to mention, Ultramorph may like this. It's kind of been mentioned before but still.
Spoiler
The book mentions once again how we met several alien races, some friendly, some indifferent, and others that were hostile and we had to fight.
I kind of want a comic or novel about one of those encounters.
Thanks for the info, Guan Thwei. It seems like Lebbon is going to great lengths to do world-building. I wonder what we'll get in the sequels.
I knew you'd like it! ;D
I am now very deep into the story, on chapter 15. I've got some more interesting things to tell you guys about the world. Heavy spoilers may lie ahead.
Spoiler
We get to learn how Predators react to their tech being reverse-engineered, humans now have top notch cloaking tech because they captured and studied Yautja cloaking tech. Top notch... cutting edge... but Yautja have better stealth tech, simply because they learned we stole their tech so they went back and improved it.
Whenever we reach an equal standing, Yautja will stubbornly research and improve their tech just to stay that extra mile ahead. Perry's Yautja hate the idea of humans getting their tech, so do Lebbon's Yautja and it's nice to see them actually improve their things rather than remain stagnant. Maybe that's why not many changes happened in their tech, because they were the best to begin with?
The space battle was quite interesting too, there's a little joke that Predator fans will get.
The Predator habitat is designated "UMF-12". :laugh: And the ships that leave the habitat are named "Bastard-One", "Bastard-Two" and so on depending on how many Bastards come out and in which order. The main character took down six Bastards and heavily damaged Bastard Seven, but we learn an intriguing behaviour from the Yautja...
Despite crippling the human ship which was literally living on borrowed time as the core was critical, they actually let it land on their habitat rather than blow it up. Humans constantly bring up how strange and "other" the Yautja really are in what little about their behaviour we know.
Also, the Midsummer moon that Batman mentioned earlier in the thread, that slug creature is quite interesting. Its sole reason for existing is simply to build. It goes around, eating, crapping and building. I think it'd make a cute pet.
A good chunk of the story so far really fleshes out the human world and explored a lot on the Founders. So much technology has advanced that I can't help but feel how outdated most AvP media is in terms of technology, the Marines are extremely advanced here.
The ships use weaponry which involves particle acceleration, they have drones packed with micro nukes that can take out Yautja ships sneakily (that's how six Bastards went down, they were focusing on the human ship and didn't notice two cloaked drones sniping them with nukes) and laser weapons are used.
Regular marines use nano-rifles which shoot swarms of nanobots that explode on the micro scale, a Predator survives this but gets on its knees in pain. Marines can program these nano-bots to slice or to go inside and expand.
They carry fist sized drones on their shoulders which can be deployed to scan an area or attack enemies and distract them.
There's a lot of really cool and amazing stuff explored, we see some leisure activities on human space habitats such as VR, there's VR games but also VR beaches that feel so life like that you can feel the sand between your toes. Humans have went very far since even Resurrection era. Even Sea of Sorrows tech seems quite obsolete. Marine sidearms are "laser-pistols". The tech aspect has always fascinated me in this franchise. I also liked the mentioning of humans having "plasma grenades".
I have yet to get to the eventual team up, I still haven't gotten to the Predator side of things and I'm more than half way through the book. Lilliya has just escaped and I am assuming it wont be long until she is intercepted by Predators as Batman mentioned. The other main character that engaged the Yautja "Bastards" are now inside the giant habitat.
Some new and interesting characters have been introduced. We learn about some anti corporate terrorism going on and the Founders have discovered how to create nano-bots with mere suggestions. They send messages into the Human Sphere that you hear, but you don't have to even be affiliated with the Founders, their words are so hypnotic, it alters some cells in your brain and turns them into obedient nano-bots that alter your personality and make you sabotage and blow up key W-Y and Marine instalments to weaken them for when the Rage eventually returns.
Speaking of the Marines, W-Y has bought them out at some point after resurfacing post Resurrection, this has earned them the nickname of "Corporate Marines". So these Colonial Marines are quite different from the ones we know in Aliens and so on. W-Y is the oldest corporation and among the most powerful, more powerful than even some governments. It runs most things in the Human Sphere but not everything as there are many independent colonies and communities, even independent Titan ships drifting in spade.
And like in Out of the Shadows, Lebbon loves exploring the dangers of space so expect some tidbits of that here as well.
Rakai and Perfect-Organism, I got something to tell you both.
Spoiler
The Founders have been experimenting with many things involving quantum physics... and it mentions "balancing the multiverse". A lot of it is hinted as originally being theoretical but some of it is becoming fact as experiments continue. That fact that "multiverse" was mentioned reminded me of you two. It's just one line though and not a lot was said about it. It could be an official hint that Fox may in fact be trying the multiverse thing afterall.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 14, 2015, 05:58:05 PM
Spoiler
We get to learn how Predators react to their tech being reverse-engineered, humans now have top notch cloaking tech because they captured and studied Yautja cloaking tech. Top notch... cutting edge... but Yautja have better stealth tech, simply because they learned we stole their tech so they went back and improved it.
Whenever we reach an equal standing, Yautja will stubbornly research and improve their tech just to stay that extra mile ahead. Perry's Yautja hate the idea of humans getting their tech, so do Lebbon's Yautja and it's nice to see them actually improve their things rather than remain stagnant. Maybe that's why not many changes happened in their tech, because they were the best to begin with?
While I do like Perry's version of the Yautja, I find Lebbon's Yautja to be... so far a bit appealing, even to me now. I liked reading this part here when you mentioned it, Guan Thwei. I really liked it. I've never questioned it but I have noticed that Predator technology never seemed.. to improve. I figure it's because the stories set from 3,000 BC to 2229-- we still hadn't reached higher levels of technology and therefore they were still miles ahead of it. But older stories like Concrete Jungle (game) shows that everytime we get their tech, it progresses us maybe 110 years. But finally seeing the Predators do this.. I like this. It's something I've even toyed with in my own world.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 14, 2015, 05:58:05 PM
Spoiler
The Founders have been experimenting with many things involving quantum physics... and it mentions "balancing the multiverse". A lot of it is hinted as originally being theoretical but some of it is becoming fact as experiments continue. That fact that "multiverse" was mentioned reminded me of you two. It's just one line though and not a lot was said about it. It could be an official hint that Fox may in fact be trying the multiverse thing afterall.
Oooooh this gave me a smile on my face... You have no idea how this gives me hope. No, really.. No idea how this gives me hope.
Fox.. all I can say if this is a hint of things to come.. all I have to say is this..
I'm glad that you are liking what you are hearing, Rakai.
Spoiler
One of the humans who are fascinated with them say how Yautja are "slave to their traditions and history" as speculation. I like that as Predators always came off as very traditional and respectful of their history and ancestors. A human general says he believes there is a hint of a religion in the Yautja but he's uncertain because so little is known. Humans know they hunt and live for it, that much is known. Even civillians are aware of the Yautja as well but maybe because this is so far in the future, there's no need to really cover up their existence anymore.
Ultramorph, some interesting world building on space was mentioned too.
Spoiler
The Founders found a place that had some electrical self warming entities, they speculated to be some form of life beyond our grasp.
Also, there is a gas giant with huge floating landmasses the size of continents, I think that's where these electrical energy things lived.
Then there was a moon filled with silicone tubes coming up and waving around, there was a pulse as if they were alive.
Then there's Midsummer, where the slug creature was found. I haven't seen a mention on the Dog-Aliens yet though. Also there's still no mention on the Arcturians but I'll be on the lookout for you.
Should I peek? Oh yeah, I'll peek. ;D
Quote from: Ultramorph on Oct 14, 2015, 07:57:16 PM
Should I peek? Oh yeah, I'll peek. ;D
;D
Cool new avatar, is that a Reaper Alien? It's been a while since I've read the comic.
Wait, I think I see the Reaper in the bottom right corner! :P
Thanks, it is from Reapers. I love that comic! ;D
Thanks for sharing the info, I'll peek after dinner. I have no willpower when it comes to easily obtained spoilers.
Me too. I wish we'd see more of the Reapers. Imagine humans encountered them? I'm sure the Yautja probably hunted Reapers.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 14, 2015, 08:29:53 PM
Me too. I wish we'd see more of the Reapers. Imagine humans encountered them? I'm sure the Yautja probably hunted Reapers.
In the old EU, I'm pretty sure that they did. Well.. probably off-panel anyway.
The old EU did show some other alien life forms, nowhere near as abundant as the new EU.. I remember in one comic, the Aliens were hoarding these weird.. dog-monkey things, and corralled them into a group of eggs, they got facehugged and chestbursters erupted immediately. Then there was this weird frog-lizard man who had a red spacesuit and a laser gun and he had killed a number of aliens and apprehended the Queen, before being facehugged anyway. And let's not forget the big alien from Earth Angel.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Oct 14, 2015, 08:42:28 PM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 14, 2015, 08:29:53 PM
Me too. I wish we'd see more of the Reapers. Imagine humans encountered them? I'm sure the Yautja probably hunted Reapers.
In the old EU, I'm pretty sure that they did. Well.. probably off-panel anyway.
The old EU did show some other alien life forms, nowhere near as abundant as the new EU.. I remember in one comic, the Aliens were hoarding these weird.. dog-monkey things, and corralled them into a group of eggs, they got facehugged and chestbursters erupted immediately. Then there was this weird frog-lizard man who had a red spacesuit and a laser gun and he had killed a number of aliens and apprehended the Queen, before being facehugged anyway. And let's not forget the big alien from Earth Angel.
And the giant orange from-lizard alien that was cooking Facehuggers on a grill.
Also those yellow, tribal types from a story I can't quite recall the title of.
In it a ship carrying an Alien crashes on a primitive but inhabited world. The Alien terrorizes a camp of the tribal types & introduces a sort of 'small fry' youngling who's picked on & pushed around by his peers. The pilot of the crashed ship has survived to hunt the Alien & eventually kills it, saving the youngling, who then betrays the pilot out of greed. I think maybe he shoots him in the back with his own laser rifle? Then the young one returns to the village with both heads & gains praise & respect.
I probably remember a lot of that wrong & I can't remember where it was published, but it was definitely an obscure Dark Horse Aliens story. It may have even been in that short lived Aliens magazine, the one that published Crusade.
Quote from: 8BA on Oct 14, 2015, 09:12:21 PM
Also those yellow, tribal types from a story I can't quite recall the title of.
That was Aliens: Alien.
I read through the spoilers. Thanks again, Guan Thwei! I really like what Lebbon is doing with this.
Spoiler
It's nice to see some actual technological advancement happen in this universe. Resurrection and Sea of Sorrows gave the impression that tech had remained more or less stagnant, so it's cool to know that it hasn't. It's also refreshing to hear that he's exploring the Predators while also taking care not to over-explain them or anthropomorphize them. It will be interesting to see if Lebbon picks up the ending of Sea of Sorrows in some capacity, or if we're meant to assume that Rollins and company were sabotaged by the Founders off screen like the crew in the prologue.
I remain convinced that the Arcturians will have a role to play in the sequels. ;D
Also,
Spoiler
the little reference to "the multiverse" sounds pretty neat. I wonder of Josh Izzo or someone else at Fox had him put that in as a gesture to fans of the old EU.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Oct 15, 2015, 12:02:43 AM
Also, Spoiler
the little reference to "the multiverse" sounds pretty neat. I wonder of Josh Izzo or someone else at Fox had him put that in as a gesture to fans of the old EU.
I hope we get one.. I hope we get it.. Then I can be truly happy. Truly, truly happy.
I've talked about it for a year and a half, and it wouldn't surprise me if someone looked at that particular thread. Slim chance but you never know. I just really want that. This has given me hope, and I don't want that snatched or shot down. It's a useful idea, really.
Seems like humans have been really really buffed in the setting...poor Yautja
Quote from: happypred on Oct 15, 2015, 12:43:12 AM
Seems like humans have been really really buffed in the setting...poor Yautja
Human Supremacy! For the Human Sphere Empire! OORAH MUDDAFUKKA!
I am very near the ending of the book and have learned so much interesting stuff about the Yautja.
Spoiler
First, regarding "Yautja"...
When Lilliya used the term "Yautja" while conversing with Hashori (who she "guessed" was female but still is unsure) Hashori tilted her head in confusion as if not understanding "Yautja".
Later on, when Hashori and Lilliya team up (I'll leave how that happens for you all to find out), Hashori says "Yautja" but the name sounds so different that Lilliya just heard it as "Yautja" which makes me suspect that the name is a human corruption of the actual term they use which was always my impression for Perry's Yautja, Machiko could only try and pronounce it I guess.
Now the Yautja... are so amazing...
Hashori did show grief and emotion at the loss of some of her people, she did say it's a tragedy and how memories are lost and history is further tainted by the loss of great experiences as Batman mentioned before.
HOWEVER.....
Hashori also didn't care if she lived or died, she hoped to die well, even another Yautja laughed at a human who said to it "come stay with me" offering it a chance to live, it looked at the proposition as "surrender" and reached for its wrist gauntlet but the Marines blew its head apart.
They're still stubborn gits, Rakai, I'm sure you'd like to hear that.
Regarding their society, they are not conquerors nor are they very war-like, however, they are combat ready. Hunting and killing is their way of life and it's something they always look forward to.
What I loved is how independent and incredibly intelligent Yautja are portrayed as... they are very independent and populations are sparse. Yautja are spread across the galaxy but few in numbers. When the human characters infiltrate a Yautja space habitat (cobbled together from rocks, it looked almost as if they were building a planet than a space station, inside it was cavernous, humid and very natural looking) they find a Yautja settlement in one of the huge hollowed out caves.
The settlement is small, buildings look like little domes which on the inside are more cubed and tend to house one Yautja with its trophies which are artistically displayed, skeletal hands reaching out through walls, skulls, jawbones, leathered wings, talons and so on.
Some homes had ships moored next to them. Speaking of ships, no two Yautja ships are the same and it is said that individual Yautja actually design and make their own ships which gives each ship a personalized look to that specific Yautja.
The humans say how Yautja technology actually progresses extremely quickly, some Yautja communities have technology developed independently from other communities.
Also, when the Rage attack the Zeere-Za warship, Hashori tells Lilliya that their small ship they escaped in is cloaked, Lilliya says "they know about cloaking tech" to which Hashori says "not this one" and proudly boasts "I designed it".
I love this, how Yautja are able to actually make their own stuff. Humans still speculate (like we sometimes do) that Yautja may have inherited or stolen their technology from other beings, but Hashori clearly just shows that they're capable of designing and improving what they have which hints that a lot of the things Predators use was made by them.
This team-up sounds pretty terrible. It also sounds like the Yautja suck at hunting humans and Yautja ships suck at not getting nuked
Individual Yautja designing and building their own star ships?How ridiculously advanced are their manufacturing technologies?
Quote from: happypred on Oct 15, 2015, 04:23:29 PM
This team-up sounds pretty terrible. It also sounds like the Yautja suck at hunting humans and Yautja ships suck at not getting nuked
Individual Yautja designing and building their own star ships?How ridiculously advanced are their manufacturing technologies?
Yautja ships are able to reduce human ships to atoms with their more powerful weaponry. And a human ship was crippled just by a few laser shots.
The Yautja don't suck at hunting humans, humans are just getting better at understanding the Predators. They know to not let them activate their wrist nukes. However, Predators still take some humans with them.
As for your second question, well that's a nice little mystery. A lot of things are a mystery to the humans and even in this era they know so little. The whole "them building their ships" may just be speculation by the humans. However, each ship is heavily personalized and modified.
Also, I liked how
Spoiler
The galaxy is hinted at being quite sparse with life, on some corners, life blossoms while many large space of galaxy are quiet and devoid of life. It incorporate the best of both worlds, some fans want the dark and gritty galaxy while others want some more life in it, well, this has both.
Also Rakai
Spoiler
The Yautja aren't fleeing, they're regrouping with more Yautja to fight the threat. Their vocabulary doesn't really have the words "surrender" or "weakness", at least not that Lilliya was aware of.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 15, 2015, 04:13:59 PM
I am very near the ending of the book and have learned so much interesting stuff about the Yautja.
Spoiler
First, regarding "Yautja"...
When Lilliya used the term "Yautja" while conversing with Hashori (who she "guessed" was female but still is unsure) Hashori tilted her head in confusion as if not understanding "Yautja".
Later on, when Hashori and Lilliya team up (I'll leave how that happens for you all to find out), Hashori says "Yautja" but the name sounds so different that Lilliya just heard it as "Yautja" which makes me suspect that the name is a human corruption of the actual term they use which was always my impression for Perry's Yautja, Machiko could only try and pronounce it I guess.
This part I don't like. It almost seems as if it's a reference to the fandom not coming to terms with the Yautja concept that the Perry's came up with and the different pronunciations which the fandom in the Yautja camp have come up with (Yawt-ya, Yowt-ja). I mean looking at the Prey, War and Hunter's planet books, narratively and from a point of view stance.. the Predators have always referred to themselves as such. Dachande, Lar'nix-va, Bakuub-- all referred to themselves as this.
I believe that in the Steve Perry Q&A thread which had come about years ago-- Perry had somewhat acknowledged the pronunciation issue and he sort of solved that problem when he commented on it when he had said something along the lines of "I've always pictured the pronunciation as Yowt-cha" or something alone those lines. I'll have to look for the thread and share it here.
But yeah, I just don't think that part should've been touched. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 15, 2015, 04:13:59 PM
Spoiler
Regarding their society, they are not conquerors nor are they very war-like, however, they are combat ready. Hunting and killing is their way of life and it's something they always look forward to.
What I loved is how independent and incredibly intelligent Yautja are portrayed as... they are very independent and populations are sparse. Yautja are spread across the galaxy but few in numbers. When the human characters infiltrate a Yautja space habitat (cobbled together from rocks, it looked almost as if they were building a planet than a space station, inside it was cavernous, humid and very natural looking) they find a Yautja settlement in one of the huge hollowed out caves.
The settlement is small, buildings look like little domes which on the inside are more cubed and tend to house one Yautja with its trophies which are artistically displayed, skeletal hands reaching out through walls, skulls, jawbones, leathered wings, talons and so on.
Some homes had ships moored next to them. Speaking of ships, no two Yautja ships are the same and it is said that individual Yautja actually design and make their own ships which gives each ship a personalized look to that specific Yautja.
This I have always believed was to be the case. The Yautja are very combat oriented and everything they do revolves around the hunt, I have always known that but I have always believed that even their artistic values were revolved around that. The fact that ships are personalized, customized even goes to show that even their artistic side is geared to that. I've always believed that and even implemented that to my own little world. So I'm not really too surprised about that, and quite like that part there which I find to be really cool.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 15, 2015, 04:32:25 PM
Spoiler
The galaxy is hinted at being quite sparse with life, on some corners, life blossoms while many large space of galaxy are quiet and devoid of life. It incorporate the best of both worlds, some fans want the dark and gritty galaxy while others want some more life in it, well, this has both.
I'm okay with this. Then again this was sort of the same case with the old EU, I mean it wasn't entirely dead but it didn't have humans meeting other alien races and being chummy chum chum with them either.
Also Guan... Can you PM me the multiverse tidbit regarding the Founders and their experiments with quantum physics? I've made mention of this on my personal blog and might end up sharing that post over on my groups pages. Seriously, that part REALLY has given me hope. Like.. you wouldn't believe. It's something I am hoping for that we end up getting.
I remember him saying it's "Ya-oot-cha".
But he also said something like there's a click somewhere, something we can't fully replicate and Machiko tried her best to pronounce it.
However, do note that this here is a totally different clan with a vastly different dialect. The synthetic spoke a bit of their language (better than humans as we aren't able to mould our throats like she could) and then the Yautja switched to a totally different dialect that she couldn't comprehend.
And don't worry, I have yet to see humans and Yautja or any aliens go fully chummy chum chum. ;D
Also Ultramroph, a bit on a familiar canine alien race for you.
Spoiler
The Dog-Alien fossils have been found on Midsummer and were said to be as old as three million years. I wonder if they're still around. It's cool to see their little builders (the biomechanoid slugs) still around, the moon is still growing in fact, being expanded by the slug creatures whose sole purpose seems to be to just build.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 15, 2015, 04:59:03 PM
I remember him saying it's "Ya-oot-cha".
But he also said something like there's a click somewhere, something we can't fully replicate and Machiko tried her best to pronounce it.
YEAH! That's the bit I'm talking about there!
As for the clicking part, I think it's somewhere between the oot and cha part. Emphasizing on the cha part, which requires some flexing of the tongue and tightening of the throat. Yes, I had to try that out loud! Ha ha ha ha!
Sounds fun, but this is where I step off this thread. Gots to read the book myself first methinks. Enjoy!
Ultramorph.
Spoiler
I made a slight mistake about the age of the Dog-Alien ruins, they're around five million years old I think. I flipped through the book again and came across that number.
Thanks again, Guan Thwei. I really can't wait for this to come in the mail Tuesday or Wednesday! I like that Lebbon seems to have been given a lot of space to expand on things and make the universe feel more fleshed out. It will be neat to see what more he adds in the sequels and whether or not this far future corner of thing gets explored more.
I have finished the book now.
Spoiler
I think Lebbon handed the "meeting" with the Yautja pretty well.
I remember Batman stating it was a peace conference, I may be wrong but if he said that, it's not entirely correct. In fact, the scientist woman says that this was more like an "invitation to a deadlier war together" instead of a peace conference.
The Yautja and humans were ready to get at each other's throats during the meeting, the Elder specifically said he wanted to speak to the scientist woman who broadcasted the message for a ceasefire (without consulting with the company or the marines by the way, and boy was W-Y pissed!)
The Company tried to exert power over the Yautja during the meeting, I quote "tell them we know where their homeworld is and tell them we'll nuke the f**k out of it if this ceasefire isn't effective immediately" for those of you expecting a Star Trek Federation level diplomacy.
But Palant thought this was bulls**t as no one knew where the Yautja homeworld was, if the company knew, they were surely keeping it to themselves.
She didn't say that, she told the Yautja that she admired them and wishes to learn more about them, that they can face this threat together and fight with honor etc. W-Y was pissed at her reluctance to exert power over the Yautja and instead offering them a seat at the table.
The Elder got on his knees, pulled her head close to his and told her that humans and Yautja will fight the threat together, but during the meeting, the Elder did threaten that if humans tried any tricks, he'd be more than happy to reignite the war with humanity.
As he was touching foreheads with her, the marines readied their weapons assuming an attack and the Yautja reached for their blades, it really was a tense meeting.
Afterwards, W-Y tried to scold the woman but she told one of the Thirteen that she just "saved their lives and the lives of their children" but before the executive could throw anymore rage at her, another executive interrupted and said she's done well.
Now the chapter after that is the last, I'll leave it for you all to enjoy.
During the Yautja incursion (there aren't a lot of ships as the description makes it sound, people call it "incursion" rather than "invasion" due to the low numbers) the Predator ships attacked literally anything, outposts, mining colonies, space stations, asteroid bases, pirate ships you name it Yautja began to kick some ass.
Ultramorph, I want to let you know
Spoiler
There are sadly no mention of Arcturians. Just that one line of humans meeting other races I mentioned earlier in the thread and then some remains of the Dog-Aliens.
Maybe the next two books might expand on them.
Good to hear that we're not getting any Federation type stuff. :laugh:
I wonder what other wrinkles Lebbin will throw in to expand this story through two more books.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Oct 15, 2015, 08:55:58 PM
Good to hear that we're not getting any Federation type stuff. :laugh:
I wonder what other wrinkles Lebbin will throw in to expand this story through two more books.
I already look forward to the next book! ;D
I really hate team ups...
I like AvP Prey despite the team up
iTunes has an extended preview, with the chapter immediately after the prologue. I think the whole book is available to purchase, too.
Spoiler
I'm definitely intrigued by the new tech the Marines have at their disposal.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Oct 16, 2015, 07:23:26 PM
iTunes has an extended preview, with the chapter immediately after the prologue. I think the whole book is available to purchase, too.
Spoiler
I'm definitely intrigued by the new tech the Marines have at their disposal.
I think you'll love it man.
It makes all the usual stuff seem so... primitive. It shows how huge leaps have been made. It makes me wonder what humans will be like in say, year 3000 or further.
Some more info.
Spoiler
I have actually grown to respect the Aliens so much more thanks to this novel, they genuinely feel like a true threat here.
The Rage modifies the Aliens to actually tear off a Predator's left arm to prevent a self destruct once they critically wound a Yautja. All the dead Predators missed left arms. And worse? When killed, the Xenos explode... coating you in acid. And if you played AvP 2010, you'd know annoying exploding Xenomorphs are. XD
The Marine suit is like Crysis Nanosuit except to me it gives the impression that it's less nano tech and more particle tech if that makes sense, it is incredible. I'll leave the details for you to find out and enjoy. It gets very explored and fleshed out.
Urgh. Chapter 1 the marines call the Predators Yautja. I just died inside.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 17, 2015, 05:06:51 PM
Urgh. Chapter 1 the marines call the Predators Yautja. I just died inside.
Yeah, that was my exact reaction too.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Oct 18, 2015, 11:02:39 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 17, 2015, 05:06:51 PM
Urgh. Chapter 1 the marines call the Predators Yautja. I just died inside.
Yeah, that was my exact reaction too.
Hicks, avoid the spoiler until you've finished the book.
Spoiler
They don't call themselves Yautja.
When they hear the word, they seem confused (Hashori was confused when Lilliya said "Yautja") and when Hashori said "Yautja", the pronunciation was so different that Lilliya's translator just registered it as the term.
Guan Thwei, I have to ask
Spoiler
do the Preds call us "oomans" at any point?
Quote from: Ultramorph on Oct 18, 2015, 08:55:48 PM
Guan Thwei, I have to ask Spoiler
do the Preds call us "oomans" at any point?
Spoiler
Unfortunately they don't. They do say "humans" during their dialogue with the characters, but I think that's the translator. I did imagine when they said "human" that it sounded as "ooman". ;D The dialogue is described as sounding similar to the Predator speech in the AvP 2010 game, consisting of various grunts, clicks, clacks and other noises, it is described by the humans as very complex as well so it's in no way primitive or simple. When they communicate with each other, they do tend to say very few words though.
When do you expect your book to arrive, Ultramorph? I hope you get it soon, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Thanks for the info. ;D Amazon says it will ship the 20th, so I'm hoping to have mine by Wednesday or Thursday at the latest.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 18, 2015, 08:43:17 PM
Spoiler
They don't call themselves Yautja.
When they hear the word, they seem confused (Hashori was confused when Lilliya said "Yautja") and when Hashori said "Yautja", the pronunciation was so different that Lilliya's translator just registered it as the term.
I don't like the fact that part there was touched. Of course I'm going off on the first sentence you said but... what can you do?
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Oct 18, 2015, 11:02:39 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 17, 2015, 05:06:51 PM
Urgh. Chapter 1 the marines call the Predators Yautja. I just died inside.
Yeah, that was my exact reaction too.
I'm over it now. I'm wrapped up in the plot of the book now.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 19, 2015, 07:17:06 AM
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Oct 18, 2015, 11:02:39 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 17, 2015, 05:06:51 PM
Urgh. Chapter 1 the marines call the Predators Yautja. I just died inside.
Yeah, that was my exact reaction too.
I'm over it now. I'm wrapped up in the plot of the book now.
What are your thoughts on the plot so far?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 19, 2015, 07:17:06 AMI'm over it now. I'm wrapped up in the plot of the book now.
What exactly is the big issue people have with humans giving a name to the species in the book? Genuine question.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Oct 19, 2015, 02:04:27 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 19, 2015, 07:17:06 AMI'm over it now. I'm wrapped up in the plot of the book now.
What exactly is the big issue people have with humans giving a name to the species in the book? Genuine question.
It's not the humans giving them a name. It's humans using the Yautja name from the Steve Perry novels. I dislike the Yautja culture and it also implies that there must of been some communication between the species for them to know what the Predators called themselves. And I dislike that too. I'd rather the hand signs from the comics.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 19, 2015, 01:20:25 PM
What are your thoughts on the plot so far?
I'm only 100 pages or so in but I'm enjoying the setup so far. Looking forward to seeing where it goes. But I will say that the novel feels like a completely fresh take on Alien vs. Predator. Completely different feel to the narrative and universe.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 19, 2015, 02:35:32 PMIt's not the humans giving them a name. It's humans using the Yautja name from the Steve Perry novels. I dislike the Yautja culture and it also implies that there must of been some communication between the species for them to know what the Predators called themselves. And I dislike that too. I'd rather the hand signs from the comics.
Fair enough.
I guess personally I'd just assumed, whatever the word might have meant before, it had now just been adopted as a handy name for the species in the new book(s). Kinda like how Xenomorph wasn't the Alien's actual name until
Sea of Sorrows/
The W-Y Report.
I take it you haven't read the AvP books?
Nope. Got them, not got round to reading them yet.
I gather Yautja was the name of their culture as much as the species in those. But I figured that meaning had kind of been forgotten with the new book and it had just been adopted as a name for the mandible-faces.
It's the species name as far as those books are concerned. I just dislike the interpretation of their culture in those books. In Incursion it's what they call the Predators. They're not called Predators. The narrative hasn't explained how they know to call them that so far. So from my POV as someone who knows what Yautja are, it implies they've had some communication to know that the Predators refer to themselves as that and that this series' Predators are that society. Of course, it hasn't come up so far though.
It's me being a nitpicker because I don't like Perry's interpretation and because there might be some fans out there who don't cotton onto the Predator being Yautja until they get it in context and have to look it up and discover all this stuff about Prey, Hunter's Planet and War.
I'm sure some of the other guys are loving it though.
My copy shipped this morning, so it looks like I'll have it tomorrow. Can't wait!
I vehemently disagree with those who claim Perry's Yautja are noble space samurai (the usual accusation against Perry's portrayal of the species)...they either haven't read the book properly or are stereotyping based on Machiko's Japanese ancestry.
That said, Dachande's individual character does resemble a noble space samurai in some ways.
I'm not aiming to derail the thread into a Yautja argument but none of us have said that in here.
My copy finally arrived today. As someone that hasn't read any of the old Aliens of Predator EU, I'm looking forward to it.
It'll be interesting to see a fresh opinion. I look forward to it!
Have you played any of the games?
Yeah, on PS3 I own Aliens Vs Predator (it's a steelbook - I collect Aliens, Predator and AVP blu-ray steelbooks) and Alien : Isolation.
I also own Marine Colonial Marines but haven't heard good things about it, so haven't bothered to play it.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 20, 2015, 08:18:45 AM
It'll be interesting to see a fresh opinion. I look forward to it!
Have you played any of the games?
I am the same, this is my very first Predator novel. I personally loved it and love the ideas Lebbon has introduced and the type of world he has built in this far future setting. He has made me respect the humans and the Aliens on a whole new level as well.
I think Lebbon is a very good writer for these sort of stories, I enjoyed Out of the Shadows very much as well, the most in fact due to the story and characters, Sea of Sorrows was my favourite because of the setting (and because of Manning) but now Rage War went further down the time line.
How far are you into it currently?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 19, 2015, 02:35:32 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Oct 19, 2015, 02:04:27 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 19, 2015, 07:17:06 AMI'm over it now. I'm wrapped up in the plot of the book now.
What exactly is the big issue people have with humans giving a name to the species in the book? Genuine question.
It's not the humans giving them a name. It's humans using the Yautja name from the Steve Perry novels. I dislike the Yautja culture and it also implies that there must of been some communication between the species for them to know what the Predators called themselves. And I dislike that too. I'd rather the hand signs from the comics.
Well, Machiko Noguchi came from the Yautja culture and referred to them as such; it is perfectly believable that she told the humans stuff about the Predator culture. I don't know if this is by design or some weird coincidence though; once again it is unknown whether these new books will belong to the Alien 3 universe or the Alien 5 universe or both.
I also just got the book and am currently 61 pages in. :)
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 21, 2015, 03:37:23 AM
Well, Machiko Noguchi came from the Yautja culture and referred to them as such; it is perfectly believable that she told the humans stuff about the Predator culture.
These books aren't taking Prey or etc into account. Remember it's a part of the new rebooted canon.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 20, 2015, 05:50:24 PM
How far are you into it currently?
About half way now.
Spoiler
The VoidLarks just landed.
Struggling to get the time to blast through it. My girlfriend insists she have my attention for some reason. It's hard to read when she's spending every day this week at mine.
Oh dear. XD I hope you manage to blast through it soon. I think you might like the way Lebbon portrays them. And your ship man! You gotta get to your ship. You'll love what Lebbon's done with it.
By the way, I just found a nice little synopsis on the Rage War book 2, Alien: Invasion at the last few pages of my book.
It reads as follows:
Spoiler
The Yautja and the human race face a common foe, armed with the deadliest weapons imaginable. Even if they work together, is there any way to stop the Xenomorphs?
April 2016
And don't miss the devastating conclusion:
The Rage War Book 3
ALIEN vs PREDATOR ARMAGEDDON.
I'm actually sacking off work a little early so I can go read before I pick the lady up. Benefits of being left on your own and your work is under control.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 21, 2015, 07:26:03 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 21, 2015, 03:37:23 AM
Well, Machiko Noguchi came from the Yautja culture and referred to them as such; it is perfectly believable that she told the humans stuff about the Predator culture.
These books aren't taking Prey or etc into account. Remember it's a part of the new rebooted canon.
I still think that's pretty much up in the air right now; when Sea of Sorrows came out, Alien 5 hadn't been announced yet so the author worked off the post-A:R timeline which is why W-Y was brought back from the dead as opposed to never having been bankrupt in the first place. Other readers have also pointed out that there are connections in these Titan books to Alien 3 as well. :-\
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 21, 2015, 11:41:43 AM
Spoiler
The Yautja and the human race face a common foe, armed with the deadliest weapons imaginable. Even if they work together, is there any way to stop the Xenomorphs?
Spoiler
Another Human-Predator team up incoming. I can't have a break.
Just picked up my copy. The thumbnail sized Alien: Invasion cover on the back looks much better than the other two.
I started reading River Of Pain two days ago & have 130 pages left before I'll start on this. It's def my least favorite of the trilogy.
I found River of Pain to be the weakest overall. The first half is pretty strong but it feels rushed once the colony starts to get overrun. It could have done with being an extra 100 pages longer to flesh out some of the events. It was already the shortest book of the three and take away the copy and paste Ripley chapters and we were not left with much unfortunately.
I thought it really missed a trick not elaborating on some of the events hinted at in the film too, like John J. Maruchuk or Newt surviving alone in the vents.
Considering that River of Pain is based on Newt's Tale which the author viewed as canon, there wasn't much else he could do. River of Pain was one of my favorite stories all things considering, I disliked Sea of Sorrows because it felt disjointed and was based on the premise that no one saw the Alien movies.
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 21, 2015, 05:28:48 PM
I still think that's pretty much up in the air right now;well. :-\
I disagree. It's not up in the air. At the minute EU included as canon includes only Alien Isolation, Fire and Stone, Rage Wars and the Titan trilogy. How that plays out after Paradise Lost or Alien 3.2, we'll review later but as it stands - this is what it is.
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 22, 2015, 06:00:03 AM
Considering that River of Pain is based on Newt's Tale
It wasn't based on Newt's Tale at all. It just incorporated several elements/straight up adapted a few bits of it.
So I'm about 2/3s of the way through Incursion right now -
Spoiler
I am really digging the Founders/Rage. Really digging them. They're the most interesting thing in the book up to now.
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 22, 2015, 06:00:03 AMConsidering that River of Pain is based on Newt's Tale which the author viewed as canon, there wasn't much else he could do.
It wasn't. At least, it wasn't supposed to be. I remember the author saying (in an interview with Hicks, I believe) that the
Newt's Tale stuff was included of his own initiative. And even then, as Hicks said, those bits were only very small sections of the novel.
Just giving my two cents...though I recall you have said that before (I could be wrong. If so, my bad)
I just feel that so much of the Yautja whining is really misguided. It would be more logical for ppl to complain about Broken Tusk's portrayal as opposed to the portrayal of the Yautja as a race
I probably have but I'm not looking to start an argument about it here. If you fancy having a chat about it, feel free to throw up a new thread in General A/P and I'll come join in.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 22, 2015, 07:13:46 AM
So I'm about 2/3s of the way through Incursion right now -
Spoiler
I am really digging the Founders/Rage. Really digging them. They're the most interesting thing in the book up to now.
Spoiler
Same here, the Rage are a very interesting faction. I really loved their sections and what we saw of their discoveries in the galaxy outside of human space. It kind of makes you wonder what the Predators themselves run across.
I also LOVED what Lebbon did with the rest of humanity, their progress and technological advancements made me really get into the human side of things. The Marines are a genuine force to be reckoned with even for the Yautja.
Just picked up the Predator: Incursion book and read the first chapter. Not bad action sequences..
Well getting back to the plot, I just didn't feel the story did the Predators justice; they felt more like the Hish from the DH Press series rather than actual Yautja (which they are named after) from the original EU stories. The humans also have MUCH more advanced weaponry than A:R let on to the point where humans are capable of killing multiple Predators easily. Also, I felt the book marginalized the Predators as characters and instead chose to focus on the threat that was chasing them away (the threat itself, feeling very cliched). I tried to give this book a chance, but the universe just felt too different from the traditional stories we've come to expect from the franchise.
Spoiler
The story feels like a remake of AVP: Three World War where instead of Predators and humans teaming up to fight rogue Predators, they're teaming up to fight rogue humans.
I really need I set aside some time to get some reading done.
While I was reading the book, I noticed another interesting thing in Lebbon's world building.
Spoiler
The general is said to be a veteran of the "Quaille Wars" or something (can't remember the exact spelling of the word), he allegedly killed with his bare hands and gained a reputation for it. The name of the war is odd, I tried looking up the word and got "Quail" which is a type of bird. Could the Quaille be some kind of aliens that were hostile to mankind?
Ok and finished. Over all, I enjoyed it. The Rage/Founders are really damn interesting. What they do is something I always wanted to see explored. I hope more of that kind of thing isn't lost in the rest of the series. The book is a lot of setup and whilst that wasn't bad, it did seem to take a while to actually really get to it. There's a lot of world building going on and that was really nice.
The humans did seem overpowered which I wasn't too thrilled on. The Predators never really seemed like a threat which disappointed me. We kept being told they were badass but never shown it. I would have liked to have seen more devastation from the Predators.
I'll start on my review soon and I'm also putting questions together for Tim. I haven't asked yet but I'm sure he'll be up for a Q&A so if anyone has any questions please let me know.
I agree, I loved the world building.
Did you notice the little line that mentions
Spoiler
the multiverse? The Rage were experimenting with theories which included "multiverse balancing"
As for the Predator devastations, I felt the true damage was coming at the end and mainly happened off screen. The Yautja began attacking colonies, space stations, marine ships, civilian ships and even freakin' space pirates!
Overall, what did you think of the portrayal of the Yautja? I know you aren't a fan of Perry's Yautja, but what did you think of Lebbon's take? I loved how independent and solitary they were, he also implied they were nomadic and tended to gather together for a big hunt or in this case, a war. He kept them very alien and the human characters acted like us, guessing and speculating. They even guessed Yautja may have stolen tech while others said they developed them independently and advanced quickly (such as the cloaking, when we steal theirs, they come back with something better.)
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 26, 2015, 06:11:31 PM
As for the Predator devastations, I felt the true damage was coming at the end and mainly happened off screen. The Yautja began attacking colonies, space stations, marine ships, civilian ships and even freakin' space pirates!
Which was a mistake as it lessens the true impact. Show, don't tell. We saw far more of the threat of the Rage than the actual Predators.
QuoteOverall, what did you think of the portrayal of the Yautja? I know you aren't a fan of Perry's Yautja, but what did you think of Lebbon's take? I loved how independent and solitary they were, he also implied they were nomadic and tended to gather together for a big hunt or in this case, a war. He kept them very alien and the human characters acted like us, guessing and speculating. They even guessed Yautja may have stolen tech while others said they developed them independently and advanced quickly (such as the cloaking, when we steal theirs, they come back with something better.)
They weren't Yautja at the end of it all. And I still dislike the use of the name because whilst now it didn't mean Perry's Yautja culture weren't used, it's just a random word that's only tie backs are because of Prey and stupid marketting it's now what the Predators are called. It made absolutely no sense - in-universe - for them to be called Yautja.
I liked pretty much everything Lebbon put out about them. No complaints there. My only real complaints about the Predators are the 2 above points.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 26, 2015, 06:17:07 PM
QuoteOverall, what did you think of the portrayal of the Yautja? I know you aren't a fan of Perry's Yautja, but what did you think of Lebbon's take? I loved how independent and solitary they were, he also implied they were nomadic and tended to gather together for a big hunt or in this case, a war. He kept them very alien and the human characters acted like us, guessing and speculating. They even guessed Yautja may have stolen tech while others said they developed them independently and advanced quickly (such as the cloaking, when we steal theirs, they come back with something better.)
They weren't Yautja at the end of it all. And I still dislike the use of the name because whilst now it didn't mean Perry's Yautja culture weren't used, it's just a random word that's only tie backs are because of Prey and stupid marketting it's now what the Predators are called. It made absolutely no sense - in-universe - for them to be called Yautja.
I liked pretty much everything Lebbon put out about them. No complaints there. My only real complaints about the Predators are the 2 above points.
I agree with Hicks on this issue, it probably would have been better had they renamed the Predators with an entirely new name like John Shirley did with the Hish; at least that way, we can rationalize that they are a completely separate sub-species/race/etc. The Yautja in the novel behaved nothing like the Yautja of previous stories; what's ironic is that even the movies (both AVP movies included) depicted the Predators as being honorable warriors capable of great savagery yet also great mercy, on multiple occasions Predators have been shown to spare mothers and children and were depicted as beings capable of keeping their word to promises made. The Predators in these new EU stories have no compunction about killing children or other innocents and I feel they fail to capture the true majesty of these beings.
Don't remember them taking out any unarmed in this?
Also the non-idealistic Yautja in Prey happily killed unarmed and went for children too.
I like that Lebbon didn't have them know the actual name of the Predators. I just would have liked him to not have used the Yautja as the name the humans call them. Predators was just fine IMHO.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 26, 2015, 06:17:07 PM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 26, 2015, 06:11:31 PM
As for the Predator devastations, I felt the true damage was coming at the end and mainly happened off screen. The Yautja began attacking colonies, space stations, marine ships, civilian ships and even freakin' space pirates!
Which was a mistake as it lessens the true impact. Show, don't tell. We saw far more of the threat of the Rage than the actual Predators.
QuoteOverall, what did you think of the portrayal of the Yautja? I know you aren't a fan of Perry's Yautja, but what did you think of Lebbon's take? I loved how independent and solitary they were, he also implied they were nomadic and tended to gather together for a big hunt or in this case, a war. He kept them very alien and the human characters acted like us, guessing and speculating. They even guessed Yautja may have stolen tech while others said they developed them independently and advanced quickly (such as the cloaking, when we steal theirs, they come back with something better.)
They weren't Yautja at the end of it all. And I still dislike the use of the name because whilst now it didn't mean Perry's Yautja culture weren't used, it's just a random word that's only tie backs are because of Prey and stupid marketting it's now what the Predators are called. It made absolutely no sense - in-universe - for them to be called Yautja.
I liked pretty much everything Lebbon put out about them. No complaints there. My only real complaints about the Predators are the 2 above points.
I agree, I wish we saw the Predators devastating things. Remember earlier in the book where a single human ship took out several Predator ships with two unmanned drones? I can sort of accept that "micro nukes" were used and other super advanced stuff such as particle beams and lasers.
But I was starting to feel that it was taking on seven "Bastards" and doing pretty well, but then Bastard One shot a volley of lasers that seriously messed the human ship up and forced Frodo to land it so the crew can escape. That sort of helped even the things, perhaps the Predators were too focused on the ship and didn't notice the drones (and coupled with the fact that
Spoiler
they were just in the process of fighting the Fire-Lizards (or Fire-Dragons, both names are used) on the habitat. So they were kinda riled up it seemed.
As for the second point,
Spoiler
did you notice the part where Lilliya said "Yautja" and Hashori didn't understand it? And when Hashori said it, Lilliya's translator just registered it as "Yautja" despite the translation sounding so different.
It's like Lebbon's Yautja are just called that by the humans.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 26, 2015, 07:16:50 PM
It's like Lebbon's Yautja are just called that by the humans.
That is exactly the point I'm making. :)
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 26, 2015, 07:10:59 PM
Don't remember them taking out any unarmed in this?
Also the non-idealistic Yautja in Prey happily killed unarmed and went for children too.
I like that Lebbon didn't have them know the actual name of the Predators. I just would have liked him to not have used the Yautja as the name the humans call them. Predators was just fine IMHO.
Yeah, but in AVP: Prey those were uninitiated Predators who were led by a
bully Predator; Dachande whooped his ass for doing what he did. Also, no innocents were harmed in Incursion, but the way the Yautja were described in Chapter 2
Spoiler
endangering the lives of scientists certainly made them seem a lot more bloodthirsty than in previous incarnations. Also, the "Yautja Woman" said that their best chance while stranded on the planet was to stay away from guns and hope that the Yautjas weren't into massacre, something that didn't end well when the female Yautja stormed the place.
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 26, 2015, 07:27:57 PM
Yeah, but in AVP: Prey those were uninitiated Predators who were led by a bully Predator; Dachande whooped his ass for doing what he did. Also, no innocents were harmed in Incursion, but the way the Yautja were described in Chapter 2
As I said. Non-idealistic Yautja.
QuoteSpoiler
endangering the lives of scientists certainly made them seem a lot more bloodthirsty than in previous incarnations. Also, the "Yautja Woman" said that their best chance while stranded on the planet was to stay away from guns and hope that the Yautjas weren't into massacre, something that didn't end well when the female Yautja stormed the place.
Spoiler
She was written as if to be not of the norm too. She was said to be pretty insane/unexperienced.
That's right.
Also
Spoiler
In Chapter 1, a marine died protecting a father and his two children from a Yautja. Some Yautja get so excited during a hunt that they kill everything quickly (but some get sadistic)
Also when attacking large population centres, they are said to take captives. But no one knows why.
So if a Q&A with Lebbon is going to be held, I'm going to have to think of some questions.. Is there a deadline for these questions for submissions?
I can think of two already.
One, I am curious about
Spoiler
the "Quaille Wars" (wondering if that is a conflict with aliens?)
And two, if other alien races will join the Rage War, like for instance, the Arcturians. I remember James A. Moore or one of the authors said "there were plans" for the Arcturians and this pleases me greatly. :)
Speaking of which, I wonder if the Human Sphere covers Arcturian space as well.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 26, 2015, 07:50:37 PM
That's right.
Also
Spoiler
In Chapter 1, a marine died protecting a father and his two children from a Yautja. Some Yautja get so excited during a hunt that they kill everything quickly (but some get sadistic)
Also when attacking large population centres, they are said to take captives. But no one knows why.
This all reminds me of the Hish more than it does the Yautja, there's also a
Spoiler
torture scene in Incursion that I find very uncharacteristic of the Yautja, but perfectly in character for the Hish.
Because they're not the Yautja. Nor are they Hish. They're Predators - Tim Lebbon's interpretation of them many centuries into the future and on their backfeet.
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 26, 2015, 08:29:25 PM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 26, 2015, 07:50:37 PM
That's right.
Also
Spoiler
In Chapter 1, a marine died protecting a father and his two children from a Yautja. Some Yautja get so excited during a hunt that they kill everything quickly (but some get sadistic)
Also when attacking large population centres, they are said to take captives. But no one knows why.
This all reminds me of the Hish more than it does the Yautja, there's also a
Spoiler
torture scene in Incursion that I find very uncharacteristic of the Yautja, but perfectly in character for the Hish.
That's because
Spoiler
Hashori thought Lilliya was responsible for killing many of her people and Lebbon's Yautja view death as a tragedy and a loss of memories and experience gained from centuries of life, something the Hish don't seem to share.
Also don't forget, in AvP Extinction, the Predators did a "traditional torture ritual" (quoted straight from the game) on a human scientist experimenting on Predators. So torture isn't exactly something new, it's just a bit uncommon.
And Hicks is right, this is Lebbon's Yautja and personally, I think his version has a lot more in common with Perry's than with Shirley's (in fact, it seems to incorporate a bit of both while also being its own thing.)
^That's true, but I have to say the Hish left a bad taste in my mouth and I earnestly hoped never to have to taste it again. :(
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 26, 2015, 08:50:02 PM
^That's true, but I have to say the Hish left a bad taste in my mouth and I earnestly hoped never to have to taste it again. :(
The Hish left a bad impression on me and I never read Shirley's book or the follow up novels.
Lebbon's Yautja seem tolerable to me but... I'm gonna go with the Perry versions. Lebbon's got some good ideas and has some elements which can be tweaked to fit Perry's versions but it's clear that Perry's Yautja and Lebbon's "Yautja" (I am using quotes for Lebbon's) are apples and oranges from what I can tell.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Oct 26, 2015, 08:53:38 PM
The Hish left a bad impression on me and I never read Shirley's book or the follow up novels.
From what I remember Flesh and Blood's Hish were far better than Shirley's in Forever Midnight (I remember liking the F&B Hish over the Yautja) but the only reason you got them was because Shirley didn't know about the Yautja. Nobody asked him to use Perry's vision. But you absolutely robbed yourself of the treats that were Perry's novel whose name escapes me and South China Sea. Will never see a better Predator novel than South China Sea IMHO.
QuoteLebbon's Yautja seem tolerable to me but... I'm gonna go with the Perry versions. Lebbon's got some good ideas and has some elements which can be tweaked to fit Perry's versions but it's clear that Perry's Yautja and Lebbon's "Yautja" (I am using quotes for Lebbon's) are apples and oranges from what I can tell.
Lebbon's Predators were absolutely fine. Just wish the early stages of the novel had shown them being more deadly.
I finally sat down and started in, and I'm 54 pages in. I'm really enjoying it so far, especially how much world building we're getting as far as technology and the like.
Spoiler
I also like all the name-dropping. "Weaver's World" made me smile.
When Palant recalled her father'd advice, it was pretty jarring to hear how the xenomorphs seem to be more widely known.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 26, 2015, 09:00:40 PM
But you absolutely robbed yourself of the treats that were Perry's novel whose name escapes me and South China Sea. Will never see a better Predator novel than South China Sea IMHO.
I was referring to the Hish mythos novels, not so much Turnabout and South China Sea.. THOSE two, I want to read but.. I just don't have the time or passion for the franchises anymore as I used to.
There was only Forever Midnight and Flesh and Blood. From what I remember FM failed but F&B was really good. Could do with re-reading a lot of the older novels.
That's a shame to hear.
Anyway, is there a deadline for those questions?
I haven't asked him yet. I'll let you know when I do.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 26, 2015, 09:00:40 PM
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Oct 26, 2015, 08:53:38 PM
The Hish left a bad impression on me and I never read Shirley's book or the follow up novels.
From what I remember Flesh and Blood's Hish were far better than Shirley's in Forever Midnight (I remember liking the F&B Hish over the Yautja) but the only reason you got them was because Shirley didn't know about the Yautja. Nobody asked him to use Perry's vision. But you absolutely robbed yourself of the treats that were Perry's novel whose name escapes me and South China Sea. Will never see a better Predator novel than South China Sea IMHO.
Yes, Flesh and Blood was MUCH better; it actually helped clarify things more clearly; the Hish were split into different groups based on their beliefs regarding "the Hunt" and it was also mentioned that the reason they slaughtered innocent people now was because they felt that the humans had evolved so much in the last years therefore their technique needed to evolve as well.
117 pages in now...
Spoiler
I can already tell that I'm going to love the Rage. And it definitely looks confirmed to me that the 2351 date was just a mistake, and that the sabotage Liliya does in chapter one was post-Sea of Sorrows. Even Marshall says that the xenos have avoided W-Y. Not a huge deal at all. Really liking this.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Oct 26, 2015, 10:49:21 PM
117 pages in now...Spoiler
I can already tell that I'm going to love the Rage. And it definitely looks confirmed to me that the 2351 date was just a mistake, and that the sabotage Liliya does in chapter one was post-Sea of Sorrows. Even Marshall says that the xenos have avoided W-Y. Not a huge deal at all. Really liking this.
Spoiler
I thought it was a mistake at first until I did some thinking.
Lilliya sabotaged the Evelyn-Tew in 2351, that ship could've been a USM ship belonging to a "Company" (didn't say Weyland-Yutani if I'm remembering correctly).
Lilliya then escapes and floats in space for several decades (may be forty years if I remember, I might be wrong on that one, probably thirty)
And then the Rage leave the Human Sphere in the early 2400's, so they leave almost a century before Sea of Sorrows.
Once they rose back to power, Weyland-Yutani didn't know about the Xenomorphs on LV-178 because Lilliya wiped the records and destroyed the ship. So they find them some decades later.
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 26, 2015, 07:27:57 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 26, 2015, 07:10:59 PM
Don't remember them taking out any unarmed in this?
Also the non-idealistic Yautja in Prey happily killed unarmed and went for children too.
I like that Lebbon didn't have them know the actual name of the Predators. I just would have liked him to not have used the Yautja as the name the humans call them. Predators was just fine IMHO.
Yeah, but in AVP: Prey those were uninitiated Predators who were led by a bully Predator; Dachande whooped his ass for doing what he did. Also, no innocents were harmed in Incursion, but the way the Yautja were described in Chapter 2 Spoiler
endangering the lives of scientists certainly made them seem a lot more bloodthirsty than in previous incarnations. Also, the "Yautja Woman" said that their best chance while stranded on the planet was to stay away from guns and hope that the Yautjas weren't into massacre, something that didn't end well when the female Yautja stormed the place.
Dachande would be the ideal. To be honest, he's a bit of a Mary Sue, except he dies, which Mary Sues usually don't do.
I'm quite certain that quite a few douche-bag thrill-seeking alpha students like Tichinde (the bully) survive and become leaders.
Idk, Top Knot was honorable, and Shorty has a mixed fate with some saying he died in AVP: War and others say he survived to AVP: Hunter's Planet.
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 27, 2015, 02:51:05 AM
Idk, Top Knot was honorable, and Shorty has a mixed fate with some saying he died in AVP: War and others say he survived to AVP: Hunter's Planet.
What instances of honourable conduct by Topknot do you have in mind?
Did you read the Two Stripe comic strip?
That's just him enforcing the rules against a cheating novice.
I don't know whether he'd be honourable when hunting humans. Dachande actually respects humans, esp Machiko. Not sure how Topknot thinks, but IIRC, he views Machiko as a nuisance to get rid of. He strikes me as a more brutal character than Dachande
Also, in Hunter's Planet, Shorty becomes Clan Leader and is quite the douche.
In War, he's a douche as well, but he's just a student. War and Hunter's Planet are alternate sequels. Shorty dies in different qays in the two books
Quote from: happypred on Oct 29, 2015, 12:28:57 AM
Not sure how Topknot thinks, but IIRC, he views Machiko as a nuisance to get rid of. He strikes me as a more brutal character than Dachande
Looking at the comic I have of War, he actually respects Machiko enough to let her compete so she could earn her place on the hunt in Bunda, and respected enough to tolerate her. Not form a friendship or camaraderie but just enough to tolerate her.
I remember that when Shorty locks Machiko in the holding pen with the queen (sneaky attempted murder by Shorty), the predators, including Topknot don't lift a finger a help her. They just watch the show.
Yeah, I remember that as well.
Remember when they were capturing the same queen and Machiko saved a Predator's life only for Top Knot to smack her across the head and knock her on the ground?
I've continued on, and I wonder
Spoiler
Lilya mentions the Fiennes ships, and how there's a story about them. Does this get elaborated on?
It does. Keep going.
Yep...
Hey, Hicks. (Ultramorph, please avoid the spoiler as I want you to enjoy what happens ;D)
Spoiler
What did you think of the twist? Did you like what happened to the Aaron-Percival? XD
I thought the ending was very well done, General Patton really creeped the hell out of me. I feel the Rage are a huge threat, their androids seem quite menacing and the weaponized Aliens made me look at Aliens as a whole in a new light. I knew Aliens are dangerous, but they seemed like a poor choice of a weapon until now... I'm glad this novel proved me wrong and showed the true potential of them.
Also, in the novel, there's a bit saying that Weyland-Yutani got Alien samples which ended badly. I am assuming they are talking about the samples Weyland-Yutani got at the end of Sea of Sorrows, that's how I interpreted it as I wondered if they were gonna use their own Aliens in this but no more mention is made of the incident.
194 pages in now, and I'm really enjoying it. The pace is nice and quick, and it doesn't suffer from having too many characters like some of the other novels. The action is pretty well-done, as well.
Spoiler
I'm also digging The Rage. It's neat to see the results of humans' unfettered exierimentation with alien tech. Coupled with the couple little references we've gotten to Weyland's "there's nothing" line, I sort of imagine that this is what Weyland would have done/become had he actually succeeded on LV-223.
Agreed, Ultramorph, completely agree with you on everything there. This is easily my most favourite novel I've read so far, out of everything I've read.
I'm about 280 pages in now, and things have ramped up fast.
Spoiler
I appreciate the restraint Lebbon has exercised as far as showing the xenos, and te stuff between Hashori and Liliya was well-executed. I loved when Palant and McIlveen were listening to the two predators before they attacked.
Like I've said before, I can't wait to see what craziness we have in store in the next two books.
Nice!
I'm glad you're enjoying it. I can't wait until the next book either. I wonder if Tim's started it or is half way through writing it.
I believe he's commented he's already working on it. :)
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 30, 2015, 07:54:42 PM
Yep...
Hey, Hicks. (Ultramorph, please avoid the spoiler as I want you to enjoy what happens ;D)
Spoiler
What did you think of the twist? Did you like what happened to the Aaron-Percival?
I am the bringer of doom! Haha. I liked it.
Tim has agreed to answer our questions. Please get any questions you have in before Sunday as I'd like to send them over then.
You guys will have to think up some good ones because I still haven't got around to getting this, and doubt I will any time soon as I just have a backlog of too many books to read!
That said, I'd be interested to hear more about the alterations he had to make, although I understand (and expect) he won't be able to say much lest he give away details about the proposed film.
Will Tim be featuring other aliens such as the Arcturians? The book mentions humans meeting some friendly aliens, will they offer help to them and the Yautja? If so, I wonder how they'd react to the Yautja if they've been hunted by them. This could create some interesting moral choices of "should we help them or not?"
Also, why do humans call them Yautja if the Predators don't call themselves this? I am curious as to how they got to calling them this. I can understand in the old EU as Machiko called them "Yautja" when the Colonial Marines consulted with her and this was what the Predators called themselves in the older stuff.
That's all I could think of at the moment.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 04, 2015, 12:34:21 AM
Nice!
I'm glad you're enjoying it. I can't wait until the next book either. I wonder if Tim's started it or is half way through writing it.
He's just told me handed in book 2 yesterday.
Thanks for the questions so far guys.
I am happy to hear that, Hicks, cheers. I am really looking forward to book two.
Rightio - I've got all my questions down. Just need to select through the ones suggested here and then I'll get them sent off.
1) You used the Yautja term to described the Predators in this novel but they appear to be a different culture and interpretation from the Perry's original concept. Since you mentioned that you didn't look at the original EU material, was this mandated by Fox?
2) Were you aware that there were two different interpretations of the Predators such as the Yautja, which the Perry's introduced, and John Shirley's Hish'que-ten versions of the Predators?
3) The Robert Rodriguez PREDATORS movie introduced a cousin race to the Predators we know and love. If we will be seeing these creatures, will you be giving them a different species name that isn't Yautja and different culture as well?
4) This one is kind of important to me.. In a passing quote or narration in your book, you had off-handed mentioned a multiverse when it was mentioned that the Founders were experimenting with quantum physics and "balancing the multiverse". Is this a hint that there is a multiverse (alternate universes philosophy/many-worlds interpretation) or is this a reference more to dimensional spatial layering?
I'm curious about the Hish-qu-Ten bit, did Fox kinda quietly decide to forget about them and focus on Yautja? (this is a question for us as I'm wondering what you lot think.)
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 04, 2015, 05:42:53 PM
I'm curious about the Hish-qu-Ten bit, did Fox kinda quietly decide to forget about them and focus on Yautja? (this is a question for us as I'm wondering what you lot think.)
I would think that Fox outright had dropped the Hish as being indisputably being non-canon. The concept was
REALLY unpopular, at least with Yautja fans anyway... Then Fox told Dark Horse and other licensees to stick with the Yautja idea.
But then... there is Mortal Kombat X... which... is an unusual case which uses both Yautja and Hish terms, although these are meant for movesets and variations. Yautja Strike and Yautja Slam are used in the Warrior variation, where as Hish-qu'ten is it's own variation.
But if the Hish do come back, I think they should be applied to the Super Predators... or Rodrigators as I'm going to call them.
A few questions, even if I haven't finished just quite yet.
1. What was your inspiration for The Rage?
2. What was the most fun aspect of all the world-building you do in the novel?
3. Is the research that Liliya steals in the prologue the result of W-Y capturing the xenos in Sea of Sorrows, or is it another team altogether?
Man, I wish we had more time for this. I am just reading the book now and it'll take a few days... Anyway, excited to hear about the interview happening. AVPGalaxy does great things for the fans with these interviews. Really enjoying the world-building.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 04, 2015, 08:17:27 PM
Man, I wish we had more time for this. I am just reading the book now and it'll take a few days... Anyway, excited to hear about the interview happening. AVPGalaxy does great things for the fans with these interviews. Really enjoying the world-building.
It took me two days to finish it, I literally no lifed it. I was that excited. ;D
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 04, 2015, 08:42:21 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 04, 2015, 08:17:27 PM
Man, I wish we had more time for this. I am just reading the book now and it'll take a few days... Anyway, excited to hear about the interview happening. AVPGalaxy does great things for the fans with these interviews. Really enjoying the world-building.
It took me two days to finish it, I literally no lifed it. I was that excited. ;D
It is a fast, fun read. Tim Lebbon writes well for action sci-fi. I just barely have time to sleep these days though... So far so good..
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 04, 2015, 08:56:36 PM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 04, 2015, 08:42:21 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 04, 2015, 08:17:27 PM
Man, I wish we had more time for this. I am just reading the book now and it'll take a few days... Anyway, excited to hear about the interview happening. AVPGalaxy does great things for the fans with these interviews. Really enjoying the world-building.
It took me two days to finish it, I literally no lifed it. I was that excited. ;D
It is a fast, fun read. Tim Lebbon writes well for action sci-fi. I just barely have time to sleep these days though... So far so good..
I agree.
Also with the older trilogy, Out of the Shadows for me felt like the best written. I really like Tim Lebbon's stories and he makes some good characters. Sea of Sorrows also had great characters and I loved the setting as it's set in the far future as well. But story wise, it's definitely Out of the Shadows (I also no-lifed that one as well. The other two books took me a while to finish though), In the end, all three books were well written.
I look forward to deciding which of this new trilogy will be my favourite story.
Did you read the other trilogy?
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 04, 2015, 09:07:46 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 04, 2015, 08:56:36 PM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 04, 2015, 08:42:21 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 04, 2015, 08:17:27 PM
Man, I wish we had more time for this. I am just reading the book now and it'll take a few days... Anyway, excited to hear about the interview happening. AVPGalaxy does great things for the fans with these interviews. Really enjoying the world-building.
It took me two days to finish it, I literally no lifed it. I was that excited. ;D
It is a fast, fun read. Tim Lebbon writes well for action sci-fi. I just barely have time to sleep these days though... So far so good..
I agree.
Also with the older trilogy, Out of the Shadows for me felt like the best written. I really like Tim Lebbon's stories and he makes some good characters. Sea of Sorrows also had great characters and I loved the setting as it's set in the far future as well. But story wise, it's definitely Out of the Shadows (I also no-lifed that one as well. The other two books took me a while to finish though), In the end, all three books were well written.
I look forward to deciding which of this new trilogy will be my favourite story.
Did you read the other trilogy?
Yes, I read the other trilogy. I was literally the first of us here to read River of Pain as it got to me by mail several weeks before it was published somehow. That's how I got this thread started because I found out about Rage War in an ad at the end of RoP.
What can I say? I really enjoyed the writing of Tim Lebbon's book Out of the Shadows, though the premise drove me bananas. That was probably not his idea though. He wrote that book as well as he could. Sea of Sorrows was the weakest of the lot for me as well. It literally sat on my night stand for months before I forced myself to read it in anticipation of River of Pain. All the characters were two-dimensional somehow. River of Pain was my favorite of the lot but that is probably because it covered my favorite period of the Alien universe. From a writing perspective though, Tim Lebbon's book really took the cake.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 30, 2015, 07:54:42 PM
Spoiler
I feel the Rage are a huge threat, their androids seem quite menacing and the weaponized Aliens made me look at Aliens as a whole in a new light. I knew Aliens are dangerous, but they seemed like a poor choice of a weapon until now... I'm glad this novel proved me wrong and showed the true potential of them.
Spoiler
What do weaponised Aliens do which changed your mind? All the other portrayals just seemed to amount to strapping some token guns on them and performing some limited co-ordination. I'm curious as to how an Alien could be harnessed for combat in a way which, say, robots couldn't.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 04, 2015, 11:38:41 PM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 30, 2015, 07:54:42 PM
Spoiler
I feel the Rage are a huge threat, their androids seem quite menacing and the weaponized Aliens made me look at Aliens as a whole in a new light. I knew Aliens are dangerous, but they seemed like a poor choice of a weapon until now... I'm glad this novel proved me wrong and showed the true potential of them.
Spoiler
What do weaponised Aliens do which changed your mind? All the other portrayals just seemed to amount to strapping some token guns on them and performing some limited co-ordination. I'm curious as to how an Alien could be harnessed for combat in a way which, say, robots couldn't.
Spoiler
These Aliens seem to not only be controlled, but are genetically modified and display a remarkable amount of intelligence such as knowing to tear off a wounded Predator's left arm to prevent it from blowing itself up.
Also, if you kill the weaponized Alien, it will self destruct and coat you in acid blood.
The Predator habitat was overrun by them and you see just the kind of damage they did and how it affected the surviving Predators by almost traumatizing them, and one cannot simply traumatize a hostile alien obsessed with hunting dangerous things.
A Predator was so filled with hatred at the devastation that she attacked innocent humans while her companion tried to convince her to stay calm and leave the humans alone while they try to think of what to do next as they land on a devastated human colony which was attacked by terrorists who were nanobotically controlled by the Rage via radio signals sent through subspace that concert neurons into nanobots.
The Yautja said they lost many ships, space habitats and even one entire planet to the Aliens that the Rage have unleashed upon them.
Spoiler
Just more obvious intelligence? Ehhh... That still makes them relatively easy to kill at range if you know they're infesting somewhere.
Right...what makes these weaponised aliens better than "normal" aliens apart from
Spoiler
heightened intelligence and more explosive acid blood?
Is that it? And why would tearing off a predator's arm
Spoiler
prevent a wrist bomb from detonating...do the aliens somehow disable the actual device?
Re: Aliens -
Spoiler
I interpreted it (and it wasn't openly explained and it was sort of left hanging for the sequels) that the Aliens were being controlled as a result of some sort of biotech that the Rage had been able to implement into their synthetics characters. I think it was more the complete and utter control of them that made them more threatening.
The Aliens weren't really seen in open conditions, mostly close quarters making that self destruct (as in they proper go pop) a bit more deadly. And it was generally quite fast too. Drop in, overwhelm, move on. Worked quite well.
Re: Predator self-destruct -
Spoiler
As in the Predators don't get a chance to activate it. It's only ever shown activated via that panel and slicing it in half worked well enough in Predator 2 that City Hunter had to high-tail it back to the ship. No reason the same wouldn't work here.
As for questions - I've already got the obvious ones down about the Yautja and etc but some other good ones in there. Might actually send off today now.
And the questions have been sent.
I've also finished my review. Just needs some polishing and then I'll put them both up at the same time.
Yeah, Hicks explained it better.
Spoiler
I remember when Hashori was about to kill an alien, Lilliya tried to warn her not to but she blasted it with her plasma caster, and just when you think it's all well, the alien suddenly pops and coats acid everywhere. Hashori wasn't badly wounded, I assume she was far enough, but some acid splashed on Lilliya.
As for the Colonial Marines, they were literally overwhelmed and despite their uber advanced combat suits and weapons, one marine got his entire arm completely ripped off by an Alien and another marine got entirely covered in acid from an exploding alien he just killed, his combat suit changed on the molecular level to quickly shed the acid and harden to what blood remained so the marine was protected, however his suit power went down fast as it got drained by the task. It's only a limited protection, and many marines in veteran homes still have horrific scars from Alien blood burns.
The Marine that got his arm ripped off, the suit covered the wound almost like it were a Crysis Nanosuit or a Symbiote from the Marvel comics, then it absorbed the blood loss and injected it back into the injured marine while almost over-dosing him on "Phrail" which is a supreme painkilling drug. Towards the end, the same marine ripped off what remained of his arm as it was dangling all over the place and got in his way, the suit has shown to give a human the sufficient strength to be able to do such a feat.
The Marine still died eventually, not from Aliens, but because he eventually succumbs to the shock of the loss of his limb and the suit ran dangerously low on power and the drugs it was blasting into his system.
Spoiler
Hmm... Shall have to reserve judgement until/if I read it, but what's being described doesn't sound terribly different to what ordinary Aliens should mostly be capable of.
If they're being deployed to kill everything in the immediate area, army ant-style, I still say a simple missile with a warhead would get the job done a lot quicker and more efficiently. The only reason I can imagine Aliens being used for such a purpose is the terror factor - but that's a steep price to pay when other weapons would be much more effective.
Prediction: Whatever group is controlling the Aliens will find themselves overwhelmed in the same way ye olde General Spears did, complete with a cry of, "They were just using us, all alooooong!" :)
Spoiler
Also Predator weaponry was dulled by the acid blood. Either these Yautja used the cheap trainee Walmart Predator equipment of the AvP movie, or the Xenomorphs had a modified acid blood that bypassed whatever acid proofing the Predators use for their Alien hunting gear.
Not all Predator equipment seemed to be affected, just at leas one's wristblade was said to be dulled, or I think it was his spear, I'm not too sure. Some other Predators were doing fine and one managed to slaughter an entire horde of Aliens before going down with valour. His corpse was mangled by all the acid blood he was exposed to, but he did manage to nab the Synthetic general before dying.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 05, 2015, 01:36:00 PM
Spoiler
If they're being deployed to kill everything in the immediate area, army ant-style, I still say a simple missile with a warhead would get the job done a lot quicker and more efficiently. The only reason I can imagine Aliens being used for such a purpose is the terror factor - but that's a steep price to pay when other weapons would be much more effective.
Prediction: Whatever group is controlling the Aliens will find themselves overwhelmed in the same way ye olde General Spears did, complete with a cry of, "They were just using us, all alooooong!" :)
Gedimen or Wren (can't remember who) said it best - urban pacification. If you can actually control the Aliens, they'd be the perfect way to go in and not actually destroy (for the most part, blood doesn't help that) the infrastructure. It's not ideal...but it's better than just nuking something
Spoiler
Personally I don't think it'll be as simple as them turning. It'll be down to the biotech they come across that lets them control the Aliens being reversed or used against them
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 05, 2015, 04:05:48 PM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 05, 2015, 01:36:00 PM
Spoiler
If they're being deployed to kill everything in the immediate area, army ant-style, I still say a simple missile with a warhead would get the job done a lot quicker and more efficiently. The only reason I can imagine Aliens being used for such a purpose is the terror factor - but that's a steep price to pay when other weapons would be much more effective.
Prediction: Whatever group is controlling the Aliens will find themselves overwhelmed in the same way ye olde General Spears did, complete with a cry of, "They were just using us, all alooooong!" :)
Gedimen or Wren (can't remember who) said it best - urban pacification. If you can actually control the Aliens, they'd be the perfect way to go in and not actually destroy (for the most part, blood doesn't help that) the infrastructure. It's not ideal...but it's better than just nuking something
Spoiler
Personally I don't think it'll be as simple as them turning. It'll be down to the biotech they come across that lets them control the Aliens being reversed or used against them
That makes sense, it saves you the whole rebuilding afterwards, just clean up the mess. XD
Also, Xenomorphs would be a great psychological weapon as well, used to incite fear and prevent riots and such. That is implying that society eventually doesn't get too used to them and thus fear them less. I mean, nukes are scary, but we've had them for so long that it's not much of a fear factor until the event that someone detonates one, that's when panicking starts all over again.
It'd be scary to see terrorists get their hands on Xenos... oh wait... ;D
Speaking of terrorists, wasn't there a group mentioned in the book? Called Red something? By 2692, they're not that big of a threat, but they were said to be very anti corporate. Lebbon did a lot of world building here.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 05, 2015, 04:14:14 PM
That makes sense, it saves you the whole rebuilding afterwards, just clean up the mess. XD
Depends on the mess. If you can actually control them you can stop them building hive so it'd just be bodies and whatever acid damage.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 05, 2015, 04:05:48 PMGedimen or Wren (can't remember who) said it best - urban pacification. If you can actually control the Aliens, they'd be the perfect way to go in and not actually destroy (for the most part, blood doesn't help that) the infrastructure. It's not ideal...but it's better than just nuking something
One of the most interesting things in that film - and one that often gets overlooked in favour of the slightly daft "we want supersoldiers" spiel - is when Wren points out what they're really after are all the new alloys, vaccines etc. they can derive from the Aliens' biology. That sort of thing makes far more sense than just painting numbers on their foreheads and sending them into battle. Plus, it opens up some potentially really interesting avenues.
Sadly, in the film, the concept's relegated to an off-hand comment that's never followed up on and a lot of people seem to miss.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 05, 2015, 08:27:03 AM
Re: Aliens -
Spoiler
I interpreted it (and it wasn't openly explained and it was sort of left hanging for the sequels) that the Aliens were being controlled as a result of some sort of biotech that the Rage had been able to implement into their synthetics characters. I think it was more the complete and utter control of them that made them more threatening.
The Aliens weren't really seen in open conditions, mostly close quarters making that self destruct (as in they proper go pop) a bit more deadly. And it was generally quite fast too. Drop in, overwhelm, move on. Worked quite well.
Re: Predator self-destruct -
Spoiler
As in the Predators don't get a chance to activate it. It's only ever shown activated via that panel and slicing it in half worked well enough in Predator 2 that City Hunter had to high-tail it back to the ship. No reason the same wouldn't work here.
Thanks...I mean wouldn't killing a predator be even more effective than tearing off his arm re his ability to activate self-destruct
Also...is it established whether the aliens are intelligent or just controlled by an intelligent master?
That's what neutron bombs are for. :) Kill all organic life, wait a couple of weeks for radiation to disperse, them walk in and calmly take over.
Had never heard of that before. Fair enough.
Guess it's more of a psychological thing then. Because they certainly effect some of the Predators into a bit of a frenzy.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 06, 2015, 12:34:56 AMThat's what neutron bombs are for. :) Kill all organic life, wait a couple of weeks for radiation to disperse, them walk in and calmly take over.
Peeps could still hide in bunkers though. Aliens would get in there and paint the walls.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 06, 2015, 08:42:56 AM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 06, 2015, 12:34:56 AMThat's what neutron bombs are for. :) Kill all organic life, wait a couple of weeks for radiation to disperse, them walk in and calmly take over.
Peeps could still hide in bunkers though. Aliens would get in there and paint the walls.
Neutron bombs, genetically-engineered biological agents, chemical warfare... Any of those are perfectly legitimate choices. Especially if you smuggle it into the target area and activate it - no warning. Especially bio-warfare, which might not have any odour or colour and an incubation length of your choice. Invisible, silent death (or any other symptom of your choice, including paralysis).
Why not use Aliens for the sake of variety?
They do the same thing a biological or chemical agent would, exterminate the populace.
And a Neutron bomb will destroy the city, what if you're too lazy to rebuild? It's a lot simpler to clean up a room than having to rebuild the entire building (after clearing up the rubble as well.)
And bio-weapons can contaminate an area, look at what happened to the Engineers themselves in their own facility. And in a deleted scene in Prometheus, Captain Janek tells Vickers about a bio-weapon breakout somewhere on Earth, it was in a desert because just like the Engineers, we weren't stupid enough to build it in a populated area, and yet the whole facility got contaminated due to a leak and had to be destroyed along with everyone in it.
It's a lot safer and cleaner to just use an army of acid bleeding scary looking Aliens completely under your thrall rather than a potentially mutative virus that could harbour unpredictable results if you plan on settling the area afterwards.
And like mentioned before, the psychological aspect. Promising your enemy a quick death isn't as scary as promising to send an army of crawling darkness with your name plastered on its head straight to their doorstep.
But in the end, I would agree that Aliens aren't the perfect and ultimate weapon like some characters in the EU make it out to be. But damn are they effective when unleashed as a surprise attack.
I guess we'd have to wait for "Alien: Invasion" to find out just how it goes.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 06, 2015, 08:21:51 PM
Why not use Aliens for the sake of variety?
They do the same thing a biological or chemical agent would, exterminate the populace.
Much less efficient. You'd have to transport a huge number to overwhelm most prepared defences. A single Alien is larger than a man. Warheads are much smaller - and can be transported a lot quicker.
Might as well ask yourself why a company doesn't do the same thing, right
now, with cloned tigers. Can you imagine all the logistical problems involved? :)
QuoteAnd a Neutron bomb will destroy the city, what if you're too lazy to rebuild? It's a lot simpler to clean up a room than having to rebuild the entire building (after clearing up the rubble as well.)
Neutron bombs can be very low-yield. The whole point of them, back in the Cold War, was to do
exactly this: Release a huge burst of radiation in a city, kill everyone and leave the infrastructure intact to take over. The radiation disperses surprisingly quickly.
Different to thermonuclear war, which would literally vaporise everything.
QuoteAnd bio-weapons can contaminate an area, look at what happened to the Engineers themselves in their own facility. And in a deleted scene in Prometheus, Captain Janek tells Vickers about a bio-weapon breakout somewhere on Earth, it was in a desert because just like the Engineers, we weren't stupid enough to build it in a populated area, and yet the whole facility got contaminated due to a leak and had to be destroyed along with everyone in it.
It's a lot safer and cleaner to just use an army of acid bleeding scary looking Aliens completely under your thrall rather than a potentially mutative virus that could harbour unpredictable results if you plan on settling the area afterwards.
Biological agents, sure - now. By the time the films are happening, it stands to reason that technology would allow them to be modified to only target certain people or burn out after a designated time. That's stuff which has been worked on since at least the nineties, if not earlier.
But even there, you still have neutron bombs - or chemical warfare. In fact, '
Aliens' show that the Colonial Marines seem to take along not just nuclear weapons, but canisters of nerve gas - just for regular scouting missions. There don't seem to be any political problems with authorising them for use.
QuoteAnd like mentioned before, the psychological aspect. Promising your enemy a quick death isn't as scary as promising to send an army of crawling darkness with your name plastered on its head straight to their doorstep.
When it's at the cost of efficiency, what's the point when you already have weapons which achieve the same result much easier? If you're wiping out entire populations, anyone you're terrorising isn't going to live to tell about it.
QuoteBut in the end, I would agree that Aliens aren't the perfect and ultimate weapon like some characters in the EU make it out to be. But damn are they effective when unleashed as a surprise attack.
I guess we'd have to wait for "Alien: Invasion" to find out just how it goes.
Yeah, as I say, I'll withhold my judgement until I read it, but if it's literally a case of just being able to control Aliens, it's no better than General Spears' plan. At least his idea was to use them against other Aliens, though. To reclaim Earth from the Alien by using them against one another. There's a sort of logic there.
But using them against humans and Predators?
Ehhh... We're two species which have access to
really powerful ranged weapons and Aliens can't realistically compete against that. Not if it's open, galactic-wide warfare.
Using an Alien as an
assassin, on the other hand... Now, that's something they'd be very good at. A small number of them locating a specific target, evading defences and killing him/her/it. That's what they excel at in urban environments. Very different to using them as an army of doom.
I could also see their brains and sensory abilities possibly being removed/cloned/farmed and placed in some kind of synthetic contraption, to augment robotic abilities (like a kind of ED-209 with a few Alien components inside).
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 06, 2015, 11:26:00 PM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 06, 2015, 08:21:51 PM
Why not use Aliens for the sake of variety?
They do the same thing a biological or chemical agent would, exterminate the populace.
Much less efficient. You'd have to transport a huge number to overwhelm most prepared defences. A single Alien is larger than a man. Warheads are much smaller - and can be transported a lot quicker.
Might as well ask yourself why a company doesn't do the same thing, right now, with cloned tigers. Can you imagine all the logistical problems involved? :)
QuoteAnd a Neutron bomb will destroy the city, what if you're too lazy to rebuild? It's a lot simpler to clean up a room than having to rebuild the entire building (after clearing up the rubble as well.)
Neutron bombs can be very low-yield. The whole point of them, back in the Cold War, was to do exactly this: Release a huge burst of radiation in a city, kill everyone and leave the infrastructure intact to take over. The radiation disperses surprisingly quickly.
Different to thermonuclear war, which would literally vaporise everything.
QuoteAnd bio-weapons can contaminate an area, look at what happened to the Engineers themselves in their own facility. And in a deleted scene in Prometheus, Captain Janek tells Vickers about a bio-weapon breakout somewhere on Earth, it was in a desert because just like the Engineers, we weren't stupid enough to build it in a populated area, and yet the whole facility got contaminated due to a leak and had to be destroyed along with everyone in it.
It's a lot safer and cleaner to just use an army of acid bleeding scary looking Aliens completely under your thrall rather than a potentially mutative virus that could harbour unpredictable results if you plan on settling the area afterwards.
Biological agents, sure - now. By the time the films are happening, it stands to reason that technology would allow them to be modified to only target certain people or burn out after a designated time. That's stuff which has been worked on since at least the nineties, if not earlier.
But even there, you still have neutron bombs - or chemical warfare. In fact, 'Aliens' show that the Colonial Marines seem to take along not just nuclear weapons, but canisters of nerve gas - just for regular scouting missions. There don't seem to be any political problems with authorising them for use.
QuoteAnd like mentioned before, the psychological aspect. Promising your enemy a quick death isn't as scary as promising to send an army of crawling darkness with your name plastered on its head straight to their doorstep.
When it's at the cost of efficiency, what's the point when you already have weapons which achieve the same result much easier? If you're wiping out entire populations, anyone you're terrorising isn't going to live to tell about it.
QuoteBut in the end, I would agree that Aliens aren't the perfect and ultimate weapon like some characters in the EU make it out to be. But damn are they effective when unleashed as a surprise attack.
I guess we'd have to wait for "Alien: Invasion" to find out just how it goes.
Yeah, as I say, I'll withhold my judgement until I read it, but if it's literally a case of just being able to control Aliens, it's no better than General Spears' plan. At least his idea was to use them against other Aliens, though. To reclaim Earth from the Alien by using them against one another. There's a sort of logic there.
But using them against humans and Predators? Ehhh... We're two species which have access to really powerful ranged weapons and Aliens can't realistically compete against that. Not if it's open, galactic-wide warfare.
Using an Alien as an assassin, on the other hand... Now, that's something they'd be very good at. A small number of them locating a specific target, evading defences and killing him/her/it. That's what they excel at in urban environments. Very different to using them as an army of doom.
I could also see their brains and sensory abilities possibly being removed/cloned/farmed and placed in some kind of synthetic contraption, to augment robotic abilities (like a kind of ED-209 with a few Alien components inside).
Aliens can't really be compared to tigers, both will easily kill a human, but one does far more damage than the other. Do you see tigers killing a large amount of Colonial Marines? Tigers don't bleed molecular acid either and tigers feel more fear than your average Alien who will gladly die for the Queen.
Don't forget that single aliens can easily sneak into prepared defences such as Number Six or any other Alien you play as in the games and cause a huge amount of casualties. They even know how to cut the power. Plus scaling walls really helps when going through air ducts and stuff, something tigers can't do. :)
As for your neutron bomb point, fair enough.
Speaking of bio weapons and chemical warfare, the Rage have a far deadlier weapon than all of this stuff combined.
Spoiler
They can turn your neurons into nanobots that makes you a fanatical loyalist to their cause simply by broadcasting a message across space and time spanning the entire Human Sphere...
Kinda makes you wonder, why do they even bother with the Xenomorphs? Just send some fanatical bullshit and have the people in charge commit mass suicide or something.
It was able to turn completely innocent people into fanatical saboteurs.
The psychological impact could be something that would deter people from standing against you, or you just want them to be scared shitless as you unleash the Aliens in a twisted sense of cruelty rather than have them go tell others. The Rage are a faction that seems to hate the rest of humanity, so it doesn't seem surprising that they want them to die with terror being the last thing on their minds.
I do agree that Aliens can't really compare against humans and Predators. When you think about it, it's very likely that we'll both prevail against the Aliens by the end of the third book. You just know it'll happen lol. But there'll be lots of casualties for sure. I think what makes Aliens deadly is when you're unprepared, and Predators weren't exactly prepared, but in this book, we find out at the end so we at least know they're coming...
Or do we?
Spoiler
It's left up to us to decide if the message in the last chapter was broadcasted before the Aliens arrived.
The Alien assassin idea sounds brilliant.
Using hyper-intelligent aliens to guard high-priority assets could also make sense. Their sensory abilities and stealth make them suitable as counter-infiltration weapons
Predator Concrete Jungle and Aliens Music of the Spears touch upon this idea
I finally finished the book, and wow was that an ending! I'll have more thoughts up probably tomorrow, but a few preliminary things that jumped out at me.
Spoiler
I like how the conference with the Yautja was handled, and it was pretty cool when Kalakta touched heads with Palant the same way Ahab did with Elden in Omega.
Mains' line about W-Y having a queen and it not ending well has me interested to see what Lebbon has to say about the prologue.
I'm quite looking forward to what Lebbon has up his sleeve for the next books.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Nov 08, 2015, 02:34:58 AM
I finally finished the book, and wow was that an ending! I'll have more thoughts up probably tomorrow, but a few preliminary things that jumped out at me.
Spoiler
I like how the conference with the Yautja was handled, and it was pretty cool when Kalakta touched heads with Palant the same way Ahab did with Elden in Omega.
Mains' line about W-Y having a queen and it not ending well has me interested to see what Lebbon has to say about the prologue.
I'm quite looking forward to what Lebbon has up his sleeve for the next books.
Spoiler
The line about the queen and it not ending well made me assume he was talking about the samples they collected after Sea of Sorrows. Which I think is a separate incident from the prologue samples which may or may not have been collected by the USM or a different company seeing as how Weyland-Yutani may have been in bankruptcy at this period.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Nov 08, 2015, 02:34:58 AM
I finally finished the book, and wow was that an ending! I'll have more thoughts up probably tomorrow, but a few preliminary things that jumped out at me.
Spoiler
I like how the conference with the Yautja was handled, and it was pretty cool when Kalakta touched heads with Palant the same way Ahab did with Elden in Omega.
Mains' line about W-Y having a queen and it not ending well has me interested to see what Lebbon has to say about the prologue.
I'm quite looking forward to what Lebbon has up his sleeve for the next books.
I took it as a nod to the events of Aliens Book One, myself. The use of Yautja seems to validate some of the old DH books, so why not make sly references to others? Loved the
Spoiler
mention of Harrigan and also the use of a familiar name for one of the Fiennes ships! Also really liked to see a post Alien Resurrection book have technology that showed advancement from the original three movies. Like the Preds being a known entity and like that they could be talked to. Seems entirely reasonable so many years since Keyes's team were shown to know about them.
Quote from: robbritton on Nov 08, 2015, 08:33:07 PM
Quote from: Ultramorph on Nov 08, 2015, 02:34:58 AM
I finally finished the book, and wow was that an ending! I'll have more thoughts up probably tomorrow, but a few preliminary things that jumped out at me.
Spoiler
I like how the conference with the Yautja was handled, and it was pretty cool when Kalakta touched heads with Palant the same way Ahab did with Elden in Omega.
Mains' line about W-Y having a queen and it not ending well has me interested to see what Lebbon has to say about the prologue.
I'm quite looking forward to what Lebbon has up his sleeve for the next books.
I took it as a nod to the events of Aliens Book One, myself. The use of Yautja seems to validate some of the old DH books, so why not make sly references to others? Loved the Spoiler
mention of Harrigan and also the use of a familiar name for one of the Fiennes ships! Also really liked to see a post Alien Resurrection book have technology that showed advancement from the original three movies. Like the Preds being a known entity and like that they could be talked to. Seems entirely reasonable so many years since Keyes's team were shown to know about them.
Spoiler
I wondered, how the heck did Predators know Harrigan had dark skin? :laugh:
I also liked everything you listed. This is my favourite book I've read so far out of anything. I too loved the advancement and world building.
I also loved that Yautja advanced as well. They never showed much progress for thousands of years (as we see in AvP), but that's because they're the best at what they do!
But steal their cloaking and become equal?
Oh no you don't! They improve their tech and come back with something better within a week or so. ;D
I also liked how Hashori designed her own cloaking device on the ship. And how Yautja in general are very competent and independent when it comes to making technology and build their own ships personally or so the humans speculate. They're structured and treated so differently from us and I loved it!
Review is ready to go! Just waiting on Tim's answers back and then I'll put them up at the same time.
I think I'm going to get this book on my girlfriends kindle, and wait to get all three if and when they release it as a hardback. I have read some reviews online but since mass media is ran by a bunch of turd blossoms I'm waiting to read your review Corp Hicks with the answers from Lebbon.
I haven't actually seen any reviews online. What do people outside here seem to think?
I'm actually curious about that too.
Amazon seems to give this book more stars (four and a half out of five) than the previous trilogy, which all have four.
The product review comments that I read seemed to like the book.
All the reviews I've seen are positive. The lowest score I've seen is 7/10.
From what I've seen people seem to have enjoyed it too.
Which is great news.
I am literally counting down the months towards the next book.
Five months left...
Can you wake me up from cryoseep once it's April, guys? Thanks.
The wait is definitely going to be hard, especially since the next novel AND the first issue of Aliens: Defiance come out within a day of each other. It's a good time to be a fan! ;D
Review is up now! http://www.avpgalaxy.net/literature/reviews/predator-incursion/
Beware spoilers.
It's a shame I haven't had a chance to read this. I really want to but what with working my way through all the old Aliens novels, on top of which a mate keeps lending me books that I feel I have to prioritise, I just haven't got time to get to it.
Plenty of time, my friend!
Just heard from Tim - he says he'll get to the questions by the weekend.
Am finally reading this...really can't say this is better than Prey or South China Sea
I think Tim has taken the franchise in a typical space opera direction. I'm half way through the book and so much attention has been focused on the humans...I feel like the predators and aliens are really only an afterthought (case in point...I groaned throughout the Lucy Anne chapter because I really don't give two shits about some little girl and her love of chocolate in the middle of a Predator book). The predators feel woefully outmatched and technologically inferior to the Human Sphere. The power dynamic between the two species has shifted so much that the predators don't feel like predators...they feel like semi-helpless primitives relative to the highly advanced human soldiers.
This really isn't what I'm looking for in a predator novel...but I'm hoping that it gets better.
EDIT: Would just like to add that Tim's writing is perfectly fine...my very personal expectations just aren't being met
I don't think any book will be better than South China Sea. I'm not a massive fan of Prey anyway but it's so different to that in terms of feel. It's not Alien vs Predator as we know it. It's something completely new. When you get to more of the Founder/Rage stuff, that'll make or break it for your interest. If you can't get into that, I'd say the series isn't going to do it for you.
I do agree on the Predators being underpowered. It's my biggest issue with the story.
Their shoulder cannons get deflected by human combat suits. I like predators...I try not to dislike a book just because the predators aren't being portrayed to my liking, but this is really testing me.
The predators are too stupid to figure out a less obvious way of activating their self-destructing wrist bombs? When human soldiers are that powerful, you're unlikely to have the chance to activate your bomb in such an obvious manner.
That said...I would still like to know more about Tim's vision of the Yautja. It's just that I have to slog through endless chapters about Johnny, Yautja Woman, General, Android Woman, Little Girl Who Likes Chocolate ad nauseam
EDIT: The background of the Founders is interesting. They remind me of the returning peoples post-Scattering in Frank Herbert's Dune universe. That said, I'm still hoping that the Yautja do not continue to be portrayed as Native Americans to the Colonial Marine's U.S. Army
So these Predators.. they're not really Yautja? They're just... YINOs, Yautja in Name Only?
Exactly. Pretty sure Guan and I have talked about this already?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 13, 2015, 04:37:31 PM
Exactly. Pretty sure Guan and I have talked about this already?
I remember him saying that one character said Hashori pointed at herself and said Yautja, albeit in a different way. I must've misread his post or something. Either way... as much as I love the Yautja concept, I think Lebbon should've just used Predators instead. Would've made more sense.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Nov 13, 2015, 04:44:37 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 13, 2015, 04:37:31 PM
Exactly. Pretty sure Guan and I have talked about this already?
I remember him saying that one character said Hashori pointed at herself and said Yautja, albeit in a different way. I must've misread his post or something. Either way... as much as I love the Yautja concept, I think Lebbon should've just used Predators instead. Would've made more sense.
I thought exactly the same.
To be perfectly honest, when I first heard about this book, I thought the Predators were going to be some hardcore unstoppable threat that just cuts through humanity like a sharp knife through melting butter.
I imagined them going into human space, "moving away" (I love that they don't have the word "retreat") from an unknown enemy and dragging us into the "Rage War" that they are involved in. I thought it was titled "Rage War" because it's full of rage and has Predators in it. XD
However, when I learned a bit more from Batman, I was beginning to get the impression that humans have finally caught up with the Predators. And let's be honest, as seen in AvP, they haven't changed a lot for thousands of years while we went from Prometheus to Alien Resurrection in just a couple of centuries with lots of changes.
Then a hundred years after Resurrection, we're already shooting plasma rifles and plasma warheads. Is it really a surprise that two centuries after Sea of Sorrows we are wearing molecular adapting battle suits that make even Alcatraz from Crysis kinda blush? (I really got a Nanosuit vibe from those combat suits)
And the bullets, I really like the micro dot full stop sized bullets.
...............
Pew pew!
That's something I never saw in any fiction ever, micro bullets. XD I loved the technological expansions Lebbon explored.
Also, speaking of the whole "focusing too much on humans", from what Batman told us, I too was a bit irked as I was looking forward to seeing the Predator side of things. But once I read the book, I think Lebbon has given us just the right amount of Predator scenes, especially as far as Lilliya and Hashori are concerned but also the Isa Palant sections too.
The thing that I loved with Dr. Palant aka Yautja Woman is that she is a huge Predator fangirl, she is basically the personification of our very own fascination of the Predators which makes us a fan of them in the first place. She is our reach into this universe. So was this other Marine in the VoidLarks who joined solely because she was fascinated with the Yautja culture. I remember Johnny told her "you finally get to meet these damn things that fascinate you so much" as they approach the habitat, and she responds with "I'd really rather not".
Speaking of the space habitat, I loved how the Yautja weren't wearing space suits when outside. They had their masks on, but no big description was given like "their entire body was covered" or something, so I imagined our usual classic half armoured and fully netted Predators in the vacuum. Maybe they're like tardigrades? Who can survive unprotected in space for a short while? The mask helps them breathe at least.
Great review Hicks, while on the topic of overpowered humans. Personally, I kinda liked that, it shows a sign of progress. However, I would've liked to see the threat the Predators presented. Most of the massacres that the Yautja do are merely mentioned as background material, especially when the actual incursion begins, how they attacked ships, colonies, mines, space stations and even space pirate ships. That kinda felt badass as it shows they don't give a damn who they attack. But it'd have been cool to see some of these action sequences first hand.
I did love the VoidLark space battle because while they take out some Yautja ships, the last surviving ship literally stomps the Marine ship with just a burst of lasers. I think the reason for the incompetence in that situation was because they were in the process of fleeing the Fire-Lizards that overran their space habitat and may have been panicking only to be surprised by a human ship nearby.
Imagine you find a pack of hyenas in your room, you quickly grab a gun and run outside only to find one lion waiting for you. Now odds are, you may shoot it or you could completely lose your cool and not react in time.
I think that's what it was like for the retreating Yautja.
Edit: I noticed that Tim Lebbon explored something mentioned in the game manual of AvP 2010.
"We are old, my brother, our race is few and scattered..." - the Predator section of the manual.
In the novel, the Yautja are said to be "scattered across the galaxy" and their populations are very low wherever they're found. Tim put heavy emphasis on the low numbers of the Yautja whenever he got the opportunity.
At one point, Lilliya got confused.
Spoiler
She was escaping the Rage, and she stumbled upon the Zeere-Za, a Yautja warship, and she scanned it for life only to find such a low number of life signs that she assumed humans used synthetics instead of going out to explore by themselves.
Also the Predator ships going into human space were so low in number that it wasn't classed as an "invasion" but an "incursion" (and so I learned a new word thanks to the book).
WTF is a "plasma warhead"? Was it just hand-waved away without explanation? Because plasma is just basically a funky way of saying 'hot air' - and it's famously difficult to get plasma to fire in anything like a straight line.
Microscopic bullets could be interesting, but as shown in Afghanistan/Iraq, smaller ammunition goes through a target at the expense of stopping power, which can be dangerous if an opponent is psychotic enough to charge you.
As for Predators not wearing suits in space, I can only assume that means they don't have, say, a rectum... Remember the Newborn getting its guts sucked out into hard vacuum? It'd be like a really nasty version of that if they do! :laugh:
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 14, 2015, 03:52:23 AMWTF is a "plasma warhead"? Was it just hand-waved away without explanation? Because plasma is just basically a funky way of saying 'hot air' - and it's famously difficult to get plasma to fire in anything like a straight line.
Considering one of the Predator's signature weapons is it's Plasma Caster, I don't see why this would be an issue.
I didn't mind humans being powerful. I liked the progression and it makes sense. Just felt like the Predators should have been seen to have put up a better fight. It's a massive shift in the dynamic.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 14, 2015, 08:46:09 AM
Considering one of the Predator's signature weapons is it's Plasma Caster, I don't see why this would be an issue.
It's never been defined on screen what that weapon is. The games aren't exactly a reputable source of scientific accuracy. :) All we can say is that it's some kind of energy-based thing, but not how it functions. If anything, the bolt looks somehow electrical in nature (at least, in the first film - the second has it look more like a flare projectile).
It's like how everyone refers to their suicide weapon as a 'nuclear bomb', when it's clearly something very different to one.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 14, 2015, 03:52:23 AM
WTF is a "plasma warhead"? Was it just hand-waved away without explanation? Because plasma is just basically a funky way of saying 'hot air' - and it's famously difficult to get plasma to fire in anything like a straight line.
Microscopic bullets could be interesting, but as shown in Afghanistan/Iraq, smaller ammunition goes through a target at the expense of stopping power, which can be dangerous if an opponent is psychotic enough to charge you.
As for Predators not wearing suits in space, I can only assume that means they don't have, say, a rectum... Remember the Newborn getting its guts sucked out into hard vacuum? It'd be like a really nasty version of that if they do! :laugh:
A plasma warhead was something fired by a human ship at the end of Sea of Sorrows to decimate the entire Xenomorph hive on LV 178. It was said to be more powerful than a nuke and with said blast, would be able to reach low enough to destroy the derelict ship in the mines.
Three of them were fired I think, nuked from orbit, just to be sure...
If you have Sea of Sorrows, feel free to check out the last few chapters for it. They're fired right after everyone's back on the ship.
Regarding the micro-dot bullets, I forgot to mention that they explode once inside you.
You can also program your nano-swarm rounds (different from micro-dot bullets) to slice your opponents or to cover them in a nanobot swarm which explodes all around them. This sent a Predator to its knees in pain and wounded it, but didn't kill it.
I loved the shoulder mounted twin drones each marine carries, they're used for aerial surveillance with multiple spectrums as well as providing covering laser fire. Although one easily got destroyed by a Predator who snuck up to it.
The dynamic-shift is a bit jarring.
I'm OK with star-faring humans as a credible threat to predators...but Incursion does more than that
Colonial Marines/Excursionists feel like 21st century U.S. soldiers wearing kevlar, toting assault rifles and grenade launchers...in comparison, the predators are 19th century Native Americans armed with Winchesters and hatchets.
The predators are not a convincing threat to human soldiers...that removes a major source of tension.
Also, the way the Yautja keep getting their arms shot off before activating self-destruct...come on Yautja, you ain't stupid...can't you redesign the activation mechanism to simple voice activation via clicking into mask
Happrypred nailed it. The predators are just (even if unintentional) portrayed as weak. They're basically Imperial Stormtroopers. They can't hit jack and die a lot.
Overall the book is pretty good, but the predators just don't resonate as powerful in scenes describing their "onscreen" actions. 7/10
Definitely agree. I really hope Lebbon tries to make the Predator seem more dangerous in the next few novels. The Rage stuff was really interesting though and really carried me through the book. I just wanted to learn more about what they found out there.
I honestly am beginning to feel that this whole "they are too weak and we are too powerful" is unjust to the Yautja... I gotta get this off my chest in defence of the Yautja. Sorry for the length.
What you all seem to forget is that the Marines are facing Predator
hunters so it's not the same as going to an actual war with them. The book states that the Yautja were never declared an active enemy so we've never had a proper war, this is a "Cold War", it's totally different.
Who do you honestly think is going to win? A hunter with his equivalent of a hunting rifle or a futuristic space marine armed with top notch gear? The Yautja in the beginning weren't expecting to hunt Marines, they came to hunt on a human colony expecting armed colonists no doubt. And they're dangerous enough to have many humans scared shitless of the very mention of a "Yautja" being nearby. And did you all forget that some Marines DIED in the book? As in being killed by
ill-prepared Yautja?
The rest will be said in the spoilers because some of it is spoilery and to save some space as I've written a lot of things.
Spoiler
Weyland-Yutani threatens to and I quote "nuke the f**k out of" the Yautja homeworld if they do not make this ceasefire effective. Isa Palant did not translate that last bit because she knew the Yautja wouldn't back down, hell, her saying "I am instructed to tell you that we know where your homeworld is" was far too much information already, and Kalakta says "your elders want war with us", but did Kalakta shit himself?
No, in fact, he warns Isa that the Yautja would be more than happy to end the ceasefire and carry on attacking humans. I'll tell you right now truthfully that if a "technologically superior" enemy tells me that they know where my home is, I'd be quite worried you know? But Yautja didn't give two shits, clearly they must be confident in themselves that they can take on the entire human military industrial complex.
Now I can understand as a Predator fan why you fellows think that humans can be a bit too powerful, but Isa Palant foreshadows to the CEO that she just "saved his life and the lives of his children" by not issuing the nuke threat to Kalakta. For all we know, the Yautja could have a freakin' DEATH STAR.
Do you honestly think the Yautja would throw more hunters at us should an actual war start? What stops them from just nuking the hell out of Earth and other human colonies? Remember the explosion at the end of AvP 2010? That's an ANCIENT PYRAMID older than humanity itself according to the diaries. They could still have such capabilities even in Lebbon's works. Lebbon's Yautja are also older than humanity, Mains thinks the very space habitat he is infiltrating (which was infested with Xenomorphs) could be older than before humans even discovered fire.
The little tease for the second book says we'll be armed with the deadliest weaponry in this team up, I assume it is including the Yautja as well.
This whole Rage attack was a surprise attack and the immediately affected ships were the ones "fleeing", and only a FEW fled, most stayed behind to fight. Remember guys, this is a clan or a small collection of clans that is being attacked here, not the entire race. The Yautja themselves are said to be and I quote "dispersed across the entire galaxy" and Isa's message was sent across the whole Milky Way. More may arrive in future books, and they may be better armed.
And where is this "Space Native Americans" coming from?...
Last time I heard, native Americans never had the ability to disable a marine ship with a burst of laser shots or turn a Rage ship into atoms as Hashori boasts after PWNING Lilliya's ship. Remember that the Rage are more advanced than humanity within the Human Sphere.
I'm sorry, but some of you guys are making your love for the Predators blind you to the actual accomplishments that they make such as improving their stealth to the point of making our best stealth obsolete, or DESIGNING their own cloaking devices, I bet most of us can't even make a SMART PHONE on our own let alone a cloaking device for a personal space ship...
I fully understand it though, Happypred, don't get me wrong, but do note like I said above, it's a single clan or a collection of a few that were AMBUSHED by the Rage. And they're in a position where making quick decisions can be difficult due to the rush of panic.
Most of their technology developed independently of other clans, they make and modify their own ships (as in individuals) so clearly they are incredibly intelligent. What stops a group of Yautja from designing powerful weapons to counter us, should they consider us a huge threat? Remember, each time we reverse engineer something, they IMPROVE that something? If we nicked a Plasma Caster, they might make a version that would utterly shit on the Marines armour for all we know!
Oh and did I forget to say that most ground encounters, the Predators are outnumbered by the Marines? Shamana was pwned by an entire freakin' platoon of uber marines, what'd you expect seriously? And he arrived there with Wendigo after FLEEING the Xenomorphs, it's not like he arrived on a huge war ship adorned with personal military gear or something. And before the DevilDog marines arrived, Wendigo utterly cut through most of the marines before being killed by the leader, who was then killed and trophied by Shamana who in turn got killed by the DevilDogs who eventually arrived.
Johnny and his squad found Yautja in small doses, it's not like they find a whole army of Predators waiting for them all well prepared, no, most are busy fighting the swarms of Aliens (whom EXPLODE after death) and did you forget that badass Predator who nailed Patton to the wall and died valiantly killing a ton of Aliens in the process with just a his weapons? You find his remains mangled among the many dead Aliens and the Android Patton pinned to the wall completely immobile due to how hard he got owned? He wasn't even able to speak.
And the "Bastards" that the VoidLarks took down, those weren't war ships, they were panicked hunters fleeing an attack on their home, so the Yautja equivalent of a "hunting jeep" completely pissed all over the Marines "Arrow Class" ship (best ship humanity has at their disposal by the way). I'd say the ones towards the end attacking everything in sight were the ones who were much more prepared.
If Yautja were such a joke as most of you seem to think, why the hell did we even bother with a ceasefire?
For those of you who have read the book, I hope this post served as a reminder to some of their capabilities, as most focus is shifted towards their apparent weakness.
I think it's best if we wait to see how Alien Invasion and AvP Armageddon go before we can make a final judgement of the Yautja. This is largely just a set up.
I believe Lebbon WILL make the Predators more deadly as they
prepare for this.
The Yautja so far have a weak presence. This could be because humans so far have only encountered "hunters". They Yautja might have some secret military capability...but honestly, that does not seem to be the case in light of how they're getting their sh*t pushed in by the RAGE.
The Yautja are mentioned to be formidable, but they're shown as rather hopelessly outclassed. BTW, I am a predator fan but I'm fairly certain Hicks is much more of an Alien/Aliens fan.
When you effectively de-power the predators by massively buffing the humans, the predators lose their presence...their contribution to the story is lessened. They're just there to get massacred by humans and RAGE alike.
Don't get me wrong, Guan. I agree with all the points are you making.
But what I'm trying to say is that we don't see the Predators being as deadly as much as we're told. There's an old adage about "showing, not telling". Showing is far more effective and would have made the Predators come across as a bigger thread.
I've got the questions back btw. Just sent a few more follow-up questions.
I agree, Hicks, I would have loved to see just how troublesome the Yautja can be as they've been said to be in the background.
I think that Mr. Lebbon has saved up some of their more destructive weaponry for the next two books. Like you said before, this one's mainly a set up establishing the new world and Lebbon focused on us in order to keep Predators mysterious and alien.
Happypred, I can sympathise with your feeling on Predators being portrayed the way they are. But do note that Yautja here were unprepared and yet still put up some kind of fight.
The ones towards the end felt much more imposing than the few hunters we've seen before. I mean, the Elder, damn, he looked like he meant business. Also Hashori was decked in more armour and kicked some butt
Spoiler
while carrying an Android.
Remember, the Rage are FAR more advanced than humanity. They can turn your brain into loyal nanobots through a simple broadcasted message. They've experimented with alien technology left behind by Dog-Aliens who seem to be millions of years ahead of us.
The Yautja's sole motivation for advancing seems to be the hunt, unlike us who are curious about the universe and want to learn and explore more, they only seem to want to go out there and kill the most deadliest things. So I don't expect the Yautja to hold the secrets to life or anything whereas the Dog-Aliens seemed to be like us or Engineers, a curious people who wanted to go far beyond their capabilities while the Yautja stick to what their capable of.
I can understand how you feel about what was shown despite what was being said, I agree with you and Hicks, like I said above, Tim Lebbon has likely saved some of their more state of the badass gear for the sequel books.
I don't think the Predators got massacred by humans, because we only found such a low number of them. And remember, they killed some of us too. The Rage however, I can say they got massacred by their Aliens, however, they too massacred the Aliens, all of this happened off screen
Spoiler
apart from the events in the Zeere-Za.
Predators are not always outclassed by the humans, I did point out how a single burst of lasers seriously damaged a marine ship. Predators are more "offense" than "defence" oriented. And remember, their stealth technology far outclasses anything we have. Human cloaks are easily detected by Yautja whereas their cloaks outclass us within at least a week or month after they notice that we reverse-engineered theirs.
Also,
Spoiler
they did get a Rage general, you only see the aftermath and I felt that was badass, the Android's mouth was literally punched into its face and the top half of his body was stuck to the wall.
But now, my friend, they're ready.
Spoiler
The message that Isa Palant broadcast was sent across the entire galaxy, the Yautja know what has attacked them and I'm sure they'll retaliate.
I am excited to read Mr. Lebbon's answers to our questions. ;D
Yeah...I'm just hoping the Yautja have a more formidable presence in the sequels. The series has a decently promising start. I don't mind powerful humans...the 27th century marines/excursionists are a cool concept, but the dynamic between humans and predators is a bit unbalanced at this point.
As I've mentioned, the difference between 27th century human infantry and Yautja infantry feels like the difference between modern U.S. soldiers and 18th/19th century Native Americans
How far are you into the novel, happypred? I want to hear your opinion on the Predator sections. What do you think of the named Yautja so far?
I loved the chapters with Hashori.
Regarding female Yautja and Predator technology.
Spoiler
Lebbon's Yautja can actually fit perfectly with Jeff Vandemeer's Predators. I haven't read South China Sea, but I checked out the "Ask Jeff" thread in the Archives of this forum, he seems like a real nice fellow. I liked reading the ideas he had and when he was discussing female Yautja, he imagined them as not being that different from the males.
Lebbon's Yautja are the same, in fact, Lilliya thinks Hashori is female, but she questions this a few times.
Also, Jeff imagined his Predators made technology by using slaves, similar to the Hish-qu-Ten.
In a way, Jeff Vandemeer's, John Shirley's and Tim Lebbon's Predators could very easily fit into one universe under different clans, with the Hish tampering with genetic engineering to explain their gender changing because they are all so similar.
Personally, I feel like Fox is a bit torn on how to portray female Predators. I remember seeing concept artwork for "Predators" showing a female with breasts, then I see some female Predator units for the board game also with breasts, and then let's not forget Perry's female Yautja.
And on the other side of the coin, we've got Jeff's, John's and Tim's female Predator ideas.
And technology wise, Tim's Yautja seem to create their own things rather than using slaves as the Hish or as Jeff says his ones do..
You should read South China Sea, Guan!
It's definitely on my "to read" list!
I tried ordering it from Waterstones, but they cancelled it. I checked on Amazon and some of the prices for the book were ridiculous. I found some used copies that were almost fifty quid.
PM me your address. I've got a spare copy.
I really appreciate your generosity, Corporal Hicks, I sent you the PM. Thank you very much for this. :)
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 17, 2015, 06:22:56 PM
I really appreciate your generosity, Corporal Hicks, I sent you the PM. Thank you very much for this. :)
No problem. :)
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 17, 2015, 03:05:33 PM
How far are you into the novel, happypred? I want to hear your opinion on the Predator sections. What do you think of the named Yautja so far?
I loved the chapters with Hashori.
Regarding female Yautja and Predator technology.
Spoiler
Lebbon's Yautja can actually fit perfectly with Jeff Vandemeer's Predators. I haven't read South China Sea, but I checked out the "Ask Jeff" thread in the Archives of this forum, he seems like a real nice fellow. I liked reading the ideas he had and when he was discussing female Yautja, he imagined them as not being that different from the males.
Lebbon's Yautja are the same, in fact, Lilliya thinks Hashori is female, but she questions this a few times.
Also, Jeff imagined his Predators made technology by using slaves, similar to the Hish-qu-Ten.
In a way, Jeff Vandemeer's, John Shirley's and Tim Lebbon's Predators could very easily fit into one universe under different clans, with the Hish tampering with genetic engineering to explain their gender changing because they are all so similar.
Personally, I feel like Fox is a bit torn on how to portray female Predators. I remember seeing concept artwork for "Predators" showing a female with breasts, then I see some female Predator units for the board game also with breasts, and then let's not forget Perry's female Yautja.
And on the other side of the coin, we've got Jeff's, John's and Tim's female Predator ideas.
And technology wise, Tim's Yautja seem to create their own things rather than using slaves as the Hish or as Jeff says his ones do..
How do Jeff, John, and Tim handle female Predators?
Also perhaps Predator tech was originally stolen from other races, but over the millennia they learned how to repair/create their own versions of it? And perhaps different clans have different practices with regard to the slaves, maybe some clans say "f**k it, let the slaves fix our stuff", while others go "no, we fix our own stuff".
Predators are not homogeneous, that's been true ever since the second movie. I find it super-easy to handwave differences in behavior/technology as "different clans do different stuff", it just gets a little harder to handwave full-on biological differences.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Nov 17, 2015, 07:23:53 PM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 17, 2015, 03:05:33 PM
How far are you into the novel, happypred? I want to hear your opinion on the Predator sections. What do you think of the named Yautja so far?
I loved the chapters with Hashori.
Regarding female Yautja and Predator technology.
Spoiler
Lebbon's Yautja can actually fit perfectly with Jeff Vandemeer's Predators. I haven't read South China Sea, but I checked out the "Ask Jeff" thread in the Archives of this forum, he seems like a real nice fellow. I liked reading the ideas he had and when he was discussing female Yautja, he imagined them as not being that different from the males.
Lebbon's Yautja are the same, in fact, Lilliya thinks Hashori is female, but she questions this a few times.
Also, Jeff imagined his Predators made technology by using slaves, similar to the Hish-qu-Ten.
In a way, Jeff Vandemeer's, John Shirley's and Tim Lebbon's Predators could very easily fit into one universe under different clans, with the Hish tampering with genetic engineering to explain their gender changing because they are all so similar.
Personally, I feel like Fox is a bit torn on how to portray female Predators. I remember seeing concept artwork for "Predators" showing a female with breasts, then I see some female Predator units for the board game also with breasts, and then let's not forget Perry's female Yautja.
And on the other side of the coin, we've got Jeff's, John's and Tim's female Predator ideas.
And technology wise, Tim's Yautja seem to create their own things rather than using slaves as the Hish or as Jeff says his ones do..
How do Jeff, John, and Tim handle female Predators?
Also perhaps Predator tech was originally stolen from other races, but over the millennia they learned how to repair/create their own versions of it? And perhaps different clans have different practices with regard to the slaves, maybe some clans say "f**k it, let the slaves fix our stuff", while others go "no, we fix our own stuff".
Predators are not homogeneous, that's been true ever since the second movie. I find it super-easy to handwave differences in behavior/technology as "different clans do different stuff", it just gets a little harder to handwave full-on biological differences.
Tim Lebbon's Predators are hard to discern from the males, a character in the book guesses that she's speaking with a female, but then she questions that by admitting she's not even sure what gender the Yautja even is but still continues referring to her as "she".
Jeff, from what I know, mentions females in his book, but in the forum "Ask Jeff", he says how he imagines that the females aren't so different from the males.
John's Hish can change gender, it's not something done at will from what I know, it's probably like a random phase during their lives. The only way to tell a female Hish is by looking at her lower jaw, the females have some mottled markings around their lower jaw.
The three interpretations have one thing in common, no breasts and not much difference from males as opposed to Steve's Yautja females who are larger, stronger, more aggressive and have breasts.
I agree about the technology stuff, nothing really stops Yautja from stealing and learning to adapt other technology. We do this a lot in the EU, especially with stolen Yautja tech for our own ends.
I also agree about it being harder to handwave biological differences. John Shirley in the "Ask John" thread in the Archives did want to incorporate Steve Perry's Yautja into any future books that he might write, he was asking questions about Yautja biology to better understand it and wasn't too keen on the breasts idea as he felt it "humanized" them. He was thinking of explaining it as "genetic engineering" that some clans might have dabbled in.
I feel that he'd like Jeff and Tim's Yautja interpretations though, they would be a lot easier to tie into the same universe as the Hish-Qu-Ten.
Personally I'm a fan of the idea that female Predators are visually nearly-indistinguishable from males, the old Dark Horse comics used that interpretation as well - the main Predator in 'Aliens/Predator: Deadliest of the Species' is female, and the main character doesn't pick up on that at first because she's visually identical to any other Predator. I was disappointed when the tabletop miniatures game opted to go the "breasts" route because that was the first "official" source to use that idea.
That's why I feel that Fox can't really decide whether to use breasts or not as some official sources don't have breasts (like the recent novel) and some do (like the tabletop game).
You know there really is the sense that Fox's own understanding of the Aliens universe is just evolving and they don't really flly grasp the root of the appeal quite yet. I mean something like Star Wars is fully worked through by now and they have a good grasp of what should be canon and what should not. With Aliens its like let's throw something against the wall and if it sticks it sticks. If not, well...
I wonder if AvP: Armageddon will tease an upcoming novel or series of novels like River of Pain teased the Rage War trilogy.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Nov 17, 2015, 07:42:05 PM
Personally I'm a fan of the idea that female Predators are visually nearly-indistinguishable from males, the old Dark Horse comics used that interpretation as well - the main Predator in 'Aliens/Predator: Deadliest of the Species' is female, and the main character doesn't pick up on that at first because she's visually identical to any other Predator. I was disappointed when the tabletop miniatures game opted to go the "breasts" route because that was the first "official" source to use that idea.
I love the idea that female Predators are near enough identical to the males. I hate the idea of giving the Ms. Predator some breasts - as John said, I feel it humanizes them too much.
I am really struggling with this book. I am around 35% through but can't get gripped.
I had the same issue with sea of sorrows. It's the only other book of the recent release I have read. I dragged myself through that.
I recently bought a copy of Prey/hunters planet omnibus. I read the first 30 pages and that gripped me instantly. I put it down to get through incursion first but I am failing.
Quote from: Russ840 on Nov 18, 2015, 08:30:26 AM
I recently bought a copy of Prey/hunters planet omnibus. I read the first 30 pages and that gripped me instantly. I put it down to get through incursion first but I am failing.
You should never start another book halfway through another! :o You'll either love or hate this book when you start getting more into the Founders/Rage.
Quote from: Russ840 on Nov 18, 2015, 08:30:26 AM
I had the same issue with sea of sorrows. It's the only other book of the recent release I have read. I dragged myself through that.
Have you read any of the old ones? I found Sea of Sorrows to be most like the old Bantam novels.
QuoteQuote from: Russ840 on Nov 18, 2015, 08:30:26 AM
I had the same issue with sea of sorrows. It's the only other book of the recent release I have read. I dragged myself through that.
Have you read any of the old ones? I found Sea of Sorrows to be most like the old Bantam novels.
I have read female war. I found that to be high superior to the comic. I did read that around 15 yeas ago so no idea if I would enjoy it now.
I will finish with incursion. And i will read the next two. I'll read anything really that contains aliens and predators really lol.
Quote from: Russ840 on Nov 18, 2015, 08:46:36 AM
I have read female war. I found that to be high superior to the comic. I did read that around 15 yeas ago so no idea if I would enjoy it now.
Was never a huge fan of the comic. I read the novels again every now and again. There's some great adaptations in there.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 18, 2015, 08:53:32 AM
Quote from: Russ840 on Nov 18, 2015, 08:46:36 AM
I have read female war. I found that to be high superior to the comic. I did read that around 15 yeas ago so no idea if I would enjoy it now.
Was never a huge fan of the comic. I read the novels again every now and again. There's some great adaptations in there.
I may pick up one of the new re-releases that are on the way.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 17, 2015, 06:12:05 PMPM me your address. I've got a spare copy.
Well if I'd known it was case of just sounding forlorn about the price...!
So, that
Weyland-Yutani Report...
Little bit pricey... :P
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 18, 2015, 02:36:31 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 17, 2015, 06:12:05 PMPM me your address. I've got a spare copy.
Well if I'd known it was case of just sounding forlorn about the price...!
So, that Weyland-Yutani Report... Little bit pricey... :P
That I don't have a spare copy of. :P
I've got some spares of the other DH Press ones though if you need any. Just shout up what titles you need.
Well... All of them, actually ;D
Don't worry though, I'd feel bad freeloading them from you. It's actually just South China Sea I'm worried about getting; the rest all seem widely available online, but as Guan says that last one is extortionate for some reason.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 17, 2015, 03:05:33 PM
How far are you into the novel, happypred? I want to hear your opinion on the Predator sections. What do you think of the named Yautja so far?
I loved the chapters with Hashori.
Regarding female Yautja and Predator technology.
Spoiler
Lebbon's Yautja can actually fit perfectly with Jeff Vandemeer's Predators. I haven't read South China Sea, but I checked out the "Ask Jeff" thread in the Archives of this forum, he seems like a real nice fellow. I liked reading the ideas he had and when he was discussing female Yautja, he imagined them as not being that different from the males.
Lebbon's Yautja are the same, in fact, Lilliya thinks Hashori is female, but she questions this a few times.
Also, Jeff imagined his Predators made technology by using slaves, similar to the Hish-qu-Ten.
In a way, Jeff Vandemeer's, John Shirley's and Tim Lebbon's Predators could very easily fit into one universe under different clans, with the Hish tampering with genetic engineering to explain their gender changing because they are all so similar.
Personally, I feel like Fox is a bit torn on how to portray female Predators. I remember seeing concept artwork for "Predators" showing a female with breasts, then I see some female Predator units for the board game also with breasts, and then let's not forget Perry's female Yautja.
And on the other side of the coin, we've got Jeff's, John's and Tim's female Predator ideas.
And technology wise, Tim's Yautja seem to create their own things rather than using slaves as the Hish or as Jeff says his ones do..
I'm at the part where Johnny and Co. are slaughtering 9ft tall Yautja left and right
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 18, 2015, 02:36:31 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 17, 2015, 06:12:05 PMPM me your address. I've got a spare copy.
Well if I'd known it was case of just sounding forlorn about the price...!
So, that Weyland-Yutani Report... Little bit pricey... :P
LOL! This made my day! :laugh:
Quote from: happypred on Nov 18, 2015, 02:57:23 PM
I'm at the part where Johnny and Co. are slaughtering 9ft tall Yautja left and right
Nine feet tall Predators? Aren't most Predators around the 7-8 foot range? I mean it's not out of the question for them to be bigger but... 9 feet.. DAMN! Either those Predators have been eating their Wheaties (BREAKFAST OF CHAMPIONS!) or they're the Rodriguez Predators.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Nov 18, 2015, 06:49:03 PMNine feet tall Predators? Aren't most Predators around the 7-8 foot range?
Pretty sure Scarface and co. in
Concrete Jungle must have been pushing 9' tall.
Yeah, these guys are pretty big, some where 8 feet tall while others 9 feet tall.
The two corpses brought to Dr. Isa Palant were laid on the table, they went from one end of the table to the other due to how big they were. The table must've been like 9 feet long or so.
Regarding them being the Rodriguez Predators. I doubt it, I think most of the ones portrayed are mainstream Lebbon's Yautja.
However, one thing MIGHT hint to "some" of them being similar to the Super Predators, key word is "might" because they are said
Spoiler
to take captives when attacking large population centres, but no one knows why. I told my friend this and he said "maybe to put them on those planets of theirs to hunt."
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 18, 2015, 08:38:53 AM
You should never start another book halfway through another! :o
I do this all the time.
All the time. I must have like 4-5 books right now that I'm partway through, and I hop back and forth between them as the mood strikes. Off the top of my head:
- Alien: Out of the Shadows
- Dead Space: Catalyst
- Star Wars: X-wing: Rogue Squadron (re-read)
- Red Sonja: Eye of Ibriku
- The Martian
And then there's the comic book trade paperbacks I'm in the middle of...
OK, just trudged through 'Sea Of Sorrows', at long last... I got the impression that 'plasma warheads' are probably just traditional missiles with plasma encased in place of a traditional exposive charge, because they're described as being dropped over a target.
Makes a lot more sense now.
Curious about why just plasma, on its own, would be regarded as particularly devastating, mind you. It's simply hot gas. Guess the authors just figured it sounded sexy!
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Nov 18, 2015, 06:49:03 PM
Quote from: happypred on Nov 18, 2015, 02:57:23 PM
I'm at the part where Johnny and Co. are slaughtering 9ft tall Yautja left and right
Nine feet tall Predators? Aren't most Predators around the 7-8 foot range? I mean it's not out of the question for them to be bigger but... 9 feet.. DAMN! Either those Predators have been eating their Wheaties (BREAKFAST OF CHAMPIONS!) or they're the Rodriguez Predators.
This isn't different from Prey or Hunter's Planet, in which average Yautja height is 2.5 metres ... roughly 8'2
Sorry if this was posted already but did anyone else notice the reference to Predator 2 in this book?
Yeah, I noticed that. ;D
Guan Thwei you rock sir! I'm sure those who've finished the book have come across it by now and it's pretty hard to miss for those who have seen Predator 2. I myself couldn't help but quietly laugh at how awesome it was when i came across that line. Also i couldn't help but be bothered by the fact that the dog-like species discovered in Alien Out Of The Shadows too closely mirrored the Engineers with their bio mechanical ship and pens which were for the xenos like they were transporting them as weapons. But thankfully Tim Lebbon addresses this in Incursion describing them as merely pets to the builders a.k.a. the engineers. Which leads me to believe the mural above the urn chamber in Prometheus depicts another pet of the engineer race. Imo it's a flightless bird-like pet we see there as it clearly has the features of a bird featus and the movie references heavily the ancient story of the titan Prometheus whose liver was eaten over and over by an eagle.
Thanks for the compliment, LordCassusSnow, you rock too my friend! :)
I loved reading the line as Kalakta was describing it. I did wonder how he knew Harrigan had "dark skin" as to Predators, we all look the same in colour. I still enjoyed it, that means Kalakta must have been in the same clan as City Hunter from Predator 2.
As for the Dog-Aliens, our Admin, Corporal Hicks has asked Tim Lebbon if the Dog-Aliens have any relations to the Engineers. He pointed out how there is a creature in the mural that looks a bit dog like and wondered if it's the same thing.
Mr. Lebbon has stated that they're not related if I'm not mistaken. The creature in the mural is something else and the Dog-Aliens are his own creation.
I think there's a slight difference between the Engineers and the Dog-Aliens, they both have bio-technology but they seem to implement them in their own unique ways. The Engineer's technology is biomechanoid, an unholy marriage of flesh and metal and other elements while the Dog-Aliens seem to "grow" everything ranging from buildings to ships. We don't know yet if Engineers grow their things, they may do it as well.
The "pets" you mentioned are the strange biomechanical slugs that do nothing but "eat, crap and build" (I laughed inwardly at this description, I want one as a pet now ;D) these slugs were like a working force for the Dog-Aliens that continued to build and expand the artificial planetoid which the Dog-Aliens have settled on five million years ago.
You know, this bio-tech stuff seems to be the highest form of technological advancement, and only two races have achieved it so far that we know of, the Engineers and Dog-Aliens. The Rage has usurped these discoveries and made them their own. I really love what Mr. Lebbon has done with the Rage.
I am so excited to read the next book!
Sorry to argue bud but theres no mention of the slug-like creature being a worforce for the dog-like aliens in incursion. The android Liliya outwardly states on the second page of chapter 18 (towards the bottom) that the dog-like aliens are in fact some kind of pet to the engineers (or "builders" in this case). Now to me both bird and dog-like aliens are some kind of slave to the engineer as well as the slug( though the slug was most likely a creation). If you own The Art of Prometheus you'll notice the Engineer and bird-like alien mural at the beginning of the book. Next to it you'll notice what seems to be the bird creatures claws holding up an open xeno egg as if preparing to sacrifice itself for impregnation. This could be the same case for the dogs as well. Now whether or not Engineers created these races is beyond me but what could make sense is that the engineers discovered these races, were worshipped as gods by them and were taken by the engineers to be sacrifices to the engineer xeno army. In Fire and Stone a race of technologically advanced insectoids had a giant statue of an engineer. In Predator 2 the xeno skull found in the yautja ship was the same as the human strain soldier xeno found on acheron. So they might have taken a few of us at some point as well. Also, i'm sure they grow their own tech as anne jordan states that walking through the derelict was like walking inside a dead organism. Going back to the slug though, it seems very curious that it and the xeno are able to secrete seemingly endless bio organic matter. The slug secretions actually being more advanced and creating tech for wherever it is. I'm not saying other races wouldn't have been able to grow their own tech too but in this case, with the dogs, it seems their nothing but some kind of pet as is stated. What i got from lebbon stating that the bird and dog are not related is that their not the same species as we are not related to either of them as well. Notable mention, In the time of Weylands TED talk, in the Prometheus extra features, it seems Bladerunner is canon to all this as well as Weyland speaks of Tyrell. And in Bladerunner were able to replicate animals and humans( maybe jones wasn't a real cat?) so it seems if almost every race that is somewhat humanoid in the Alien/Predator universe was created by engineers, maybe were all genetically committed to create bio tech at some point. Thus following in the footsteps of our creators. In actuality, if there are humanoids out there in our reality, it'd blow everyone minds as it should be impossible for that to happen! :o
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 23, 2015, 01:00:24 AM
Thanks for the compliment, LordCassusSnow, you rock too my friend! :)
I loved reading the line as Kalakta was describing it. I did wonder how he knew Harrigan had "dark skin" as to Predators, we all look the same in colour. I still enjoyed it, that means Kalakta must have been in the same clan as City Hunter from Predator 2.
Dark objects absorb more/reflect less visible light ... thus they tend to get hotter and emit more IR? I dunno
I do believe that they do talk about the dog-aliens being pets too. But Tim keeps it quite vague.
Interview is up - http://www.avpgalaxy.net/website/interviews/tim-lebbon-interview-predator-incursion/
I'm guessing it's a bit spoilery?
Only minor.
Quote from: LordCassusSnow on Nov 23, 2015, 02:32:47 AM
Sorry to argue bud but theres no mention of the slug-like creature being a worforce for the dog-like aliens in incursion. The android Liliya outwardly states on the second page of chapter 18 (towards the bottom) that the dog-like aliens are in fact some kind of pet to the engineers (or "builders" in this case). Now to me both bird and dog-like aliens are some kind of slave to the engineer as well as the slug( though the slug was most likely a creation). If you own The Art of Prometheus you'll notice the Engineer and bird-like alien mural at the beginning of the book. Next to it you'll notice what seems to be the bird creatures claws holding up an open xeno egg as if preparing to sacrifice itself for impregnation. This could be the same case for the dogs as well. Now whether or not Engineers created these races is beyond me but what could make sense is that the engineers discovered these races, were worshipped as gods by them and were taken by the engineers to be sacrifices to the engineer xeno army. In Fire and Stone a race of technologically advanced insectoids had a giant statue of an engineer. In Predator 2 the xeno skull found in the yautja ship was the same as the human strain soldier xeno found on acheron. So they might have taken a few of us at some point as well. Also, i'm sure they grow their own tech as anne jordan states that walking through the derelict was like walking inside a dead organism. Going back to the slug though, it seems very curious that it and the xeno are able to secrete seemingly endless bio organic matter. The slug secretions actually being more advanced and creating tech for wherever it is. I'm not saying other races wouldn't have been able to grow their own tech too but in this case, with the dogs, it seems their nothing but some kind of pet as is stated. What i got from lebbon stating that the bird and dog are not related is that their not the same species as we are not related to either of them as well. Notable mention, In the time of Weylands TED talk, in the Prometheus extra features, it seems Bladerunner is canon to all this as well as Weyland speaks of Tyrell. And in Bladerunner were able to replicate animals and humans( maybe jones wasn't a real cat?) so it seems if almost every race that is somewhat humanoid in the Alien/Predator universe was created by engineers, maybe were all genetically committed to create bio tech at some point. Thus following in the footsteps of our creators. In actuality, if there are humanoids out there in our reality, it'd blow everyone minds as it should be impossible for that to happen! :o
I swear it was the "slug" that was the pet? They tried communicating with it when they found it because they assumed it was intelligent, but all it did was go around and build. The very description of it says it "eats, craps and builds". That sounds very much like a pet that builds to me. They continued building because even long after the Dog-Aliens died, the slugs kept building and hence "the planetoid was still growing". The book specifically states this.
So logically, it was a work force while the Dog-Aliens are the intelligent race.
I checked out Chapter 18 and Lilliya is looking at the Dog-Alien skeleton. She does say "yet I knew so little that these things could just be the builders' pets", she may either be thinking the slugs are the Dog-Alien's pets, or the Dog-Aliens are the slug's pets (which is unlikely seeing as how the slugs behave compared to the Dog-Aliens who have or had a thriving civiliation, Out of the Shadows explores them a lot more.)
Because the Engineers aren't mentioned at all. If they were, I would've known as I am really fascinated with them. The Engineers were in River of Pain.
But now that I think about it more, I think you're onto something LordCassusSnow and I like what you wrote. I also loved those sections in Fire and Stone showing other Engineer creations like the four armed Goro aliens and the insect things as well as this highly advanced armoured creature that was shot down by Ahab's plasma caster before he looked at the hologram of an Engineer.
You say that all humanoid races must be their creations, do you think the Yautja are? Maybe the Yautja are this rare humanoid race that evolved as a result of "convergent evolution" and due to a sheer and utter coincidence, happens to look like us. Like someone in Rage War said, "if the universe is truly infinites, then out there somewhere is a square planet".
Same logic applies here, heck, if the universe is truly infinite, somewhere out there could be Yautja. ;D
Speaking of Fire and Stone, the Engineers seem to keep contact with all their races, the three other examples besides humans all have some kind of evidence for the Engineers such as cave paintings, statues and holographic pictures. The Yautja weren't shown to have this, Ahab was amazed every time he stumble upon these relics and got more obsessed with finding and hunting an Engineer like Captain Ahab and the white whale.
And Hicks, thanks for the interview man, I loved reading that.
So it seems the
Spoiler
prologue was a little mistake then? Although I rationalized it as being some top secret cloak and dagger USM operation that was so wrapped up that no one major heard of it. And Lilliya destroyed the only sample and records so Wren couldn't have known (or wasn't informed or maybe was lying to Ripley 8 ). Interestingly a "company" was mentioned but not Weyland-Yutani if I'm not mistaken.
And the other reference in the book during 2692 states that Weyland-Yutani had "live samples" which didn't turn out well. I assumed that was the "reference" to the ending in Sea of Sorrows
So even if it was a mistake it wasn't something major. Remember the description of the Derelict in River of Pain? That was a huge scenery mistake of the pilot room that I had to completely re-imagine how it looked.
Lebbon's little "mistake" is easily explained rather than having to be ignored. ;D
Just read the interview and I have to say it's an interesting one!
In regards to my questions... Aaaah.. Well...
Spoiler
I'm a little disappointed in that we're told to not read too much into it. I was hoping that there was more of a hint to the idea of a multiverse, and I'm still hoping for it but... I now kind of regret asking that because it's neither a reference to the many-worlds interpretation or even the science theory. It's just.. well, there. I'm still hoping for a multiverse, and would love it if we got one. I hope we do, even if not referenced.
But I am surprised to know that he liked the Yautja name enough to use it for his version of the Predators. I still think that if he was going to use the Yautja name, he should've taken the concept as a whole and utilized it, build upon it... but as it is, I really think he should've left it alone and just referred to them as either Predators, or Hunters.
In regards to the Hish, it's not surprising that he didn't know about them. Even by EU standards, the Hish are pretty obscure.
Rakai, look on the bright side.
Spoiler
At least the fact that it's mentioned shows that it "exists".
Maybe the Multiverse is the many "planes of existence" that we utilize for FTL travel and communication.
Or it may be the "alternative EU", so in a way, it's left up to us to imagine. So you are absolutely free to see the old EU as a mirror universe to the current one and so on.
I also love that he used "Yautja", I am one of the few that really likes the name. It kinda sounds unique. I don't know, it's not like "Klingon" where it sounds like "cling on", it genuinely just sounds quite alien and tribal and I interpret as Yautja being pronounced in a way that is so difficult for us hence when we say it, it confuses the Predators.
My friend says "yotcha", the Xenopedia wiki uses the abhorrent "e-wat-ya"... where they got that from, I have no idea.
So the way humans pronounce "Yautja" could be nothing like how Machiko pronounced it for instance.
On a side note, I forgot to mention that Mr. Lebbon does tend to spell "Alpha Centauri" incorrectly. In both Out of the Shadows and Incursion, he put "Alpha Centurai", and that's understandable seeing as how that's the way some people pronounce it, but it's "Alpha Centauri". :)
I think it'd be nice if someone informs Mr. Lebbon on Twitter about this so that he doesn't incorrectly spell it in future stories. It wasn't a big glaring mistake, just something minor. I also noticed that Rage War had 99% correct spelling and grammar, some other books I read had some minor mistakes which were amusing to notice. Out of all the books, Tim's works tends to have the least errors. It's just "Alpha Centauri". XD
But overall seriously, 10/10. I plan to re-read this once I have the entire trilogy.
Nice interview, Hicks! It really comes across that Lebbon is enjoying the whole thing.
Spoiler
It's cool that he just acknowledged the prologue was a mistake, and it would have been cool to see it take place on the Auriga. Here's hoping the dog-aliens show up, alive, in person sometime in the third novel. Sad to hear that the Arcturians will only be getting mentions, but I remain convinced that Fox has some sort of plan for them, be it in the movies or comics.
Is it April yet?
Quote from: Ultramorph on Nov 23, 2015, 06:21:29 PM
Nice interview, Hicks! It really comes across that Lebbon is enjoying the whole thing.
Spoiler
It's cool that he just acknowledged the prologue was a mistake, and it would have been cool to see it take place on the Auriga. Here's hoping the dog-aliens show up, alive, in person sometime in the third novel. Sad to hear that the Arcturians will only be getting mentions, but I remain convinced that Fox has some sort of plan for them, be it in the movies or comics.
Is it April yet?
Ultramrph, I have installed a spare cryo-pod if you want to join me in hibernation. I will calibrate it to wake us up on April 2016. ;D
Fair play to Tim for just holding his hands up and admitting the mistake with the prologue. I keep meaning to re-read Sea of Sorrows but does this now mean that Weyland-Yutani have had all of their xenomorph stolen and are back to square one?
Batman, seeing as how you aren't a big fan of the Yautja.
What do you think about Tim simply using the name because he liked it rather than adopting Perry's interpretation? I remember you being disappointed that Yautja were used, but that turned out not to be the case. (I am assuming you thought this was going to be "Perry Yautja")
It seems like the unspoken name of the Predator race regardless of what culture is shown.
I like how Tim wasn't forced to use the name nor did Fox tell him not to once he had decided to. Maybe it's the name they decided to stick with rather than other names such as Hish-qu-Ten.
Honestly I think it's a little odd that he used the term Yautja, especially as he also confessed to not reading Perry's work. It just causes confusion at the end of the day. I just don't see why we cannot just call them Predators personally.
It's created quite a strange situation in that he's essentially canonised the word 'Yautja' in this new rebooted universe as a term humans use for the Preds, and yet the culture and history that word belongs in exists solely in a separate universe. It's not even a proper homage to the original EU stories as he admitted he never read them. It's just a 'cool' word he liked more than Predator.
It's odd.
To be honest even though I'm not a fan of the Yauta culture, I honestly think I'd have preferred it if he'd fully adopted the Perry-take, rather than create his own interpretation and borrow the name. Simply just using the term Yautja is odd to me as it disappoint those who are big fans of the Perryverse and wanted to see those Preds return, and likewise it disappoints people like myself who don't like that interpretation of Predators or anything associated with it. It just seems like quite a bold step for Lebbon to take considering all it is based on is his personal belief it is a cool sounding word.
Thanks for the informative response, Batman.
You know, Tim's Predators and Perry's do share one thing in common, it's kind of implied they have honour.
Isa Palant proposes they "honourably team up" together or something along those lines. She threw that word around. But that could just be her assuming this though. On the other hand, seeing as she's a scientist studying Predators, maybe her use of the word holds some weight to it.
I think this new EU could benefit now with a standalone Predator story that properly introduces them to this universe. In Fire and Stone the Predators are introduced as relatively unknown and yet in their next appearance with Incursion they are old hat. It's a jarring gap that could be filled with a standalone Predator tale that really fleshes out this new interpretation, Yautja and all.
I'd like something along the lines of the old Monolith AVP2 plotline where there is plenty of evidence the Predators have been around but their existence is nothing more than rumour and one guy (Rykov) is desperately trying to prove they exist.
Or perhaps Black's Predator 4 could accomplish this.
Batman hit the nail on the head with Lebbon using the Yautja name, but not the concept. Also, it seems from his posts that he too believes that there is a multiverse thing going on since he mentions the old universe, the Perryverse, and the new current universe. He's got the right idea.
I agree, Batman, I would love to see another standalone Predator story. I enjoyed the AvP2 game storyline, how Rykov tried to get his revenge and how it introduces their robust immune system. Lebbon's Yautja have a blood that helps heal them, this could tie in well with a strong immune system.
I'd like a story on how the humans got to calling them "Yautja", maybe one screwed up big time like Scarface from the Concrete Jungle game and embarrassingly revealed his species to humanity.
Are Lebbon's Yautja really that different from Perry's Yautja?
Both seem to be tribalistic, nomadic (physically very large) hunters with some vague alien sense of honour.
The males and females are around the same size in the Lebbon-verse. That seems to be the only major distinction. Oh yes...and occassonally they take a few captives.
Quote from: happypred on Nov 24, 2015, 12:50:35 AM
Are Lebbon's Yautja really that different from Perry's Yautja?
They're supposed to be, given that Lebbon only used Wikipedia to research the Predators (which I highly advise against) and then decided to do his own spin on it. We'll see in the future novels exactly how different they are.
I will say this.. there is only so much research you can do on a character but nothing, nothing compares to knowing the character's history or their interpretations through first hand experience of their exploits. I'm sure if Lebbon read the Perry novels, we would've gotten something that harkens back to Perry's Predators and be more in line with them. The language would've been used, but also expanded on with the dialects.
I wonder if Tim Lebbon may be curious to check out Perry's works. Because the irony is that his Predators do have a bit of Perry influences in them as well as some slight Hish despite Mr. Lebbon having not read either of these works.
Like I mentioned, the Yautja have genders, they behave under some kind of rules but tend to be much more individual and independent which leaves room for certain individuals exhibiting Hish like behaviour.
For instance, Shamana was a very chill Yautja, telling Wendigo to remain calm, meanwhile Wendigo went all berserker on the humans despite Shamana telling her to leave them alone. It's like Wendigo's fury gland got activated or something. ;D
But in the end, I'm sorta glad Tim dove in fresh, maybe he just saw the films and in the end, that's the main thing really, the films. Everything else is the icing on the cake.
I know that Perry's Yautja also had acute senses.. Such as being able to pick up smells that human olfactory senses weren't able to pick up, being able to hear things more acutely... Do Lebbon's "Yautja" have such senses which they use on the Hunt?
Ok, I'm actually trying to not read this thread as I'm still reading the book, but I couldn't help noticing mention of "Perry's Yautja". What is this about "Perry's Yautja" you speak of? Is this implying that the Perrys invented the Yautja concept? Please say it isn't so. That book "Prey" was strictly speaking an adaptation of the original series by Randy Stradley. So let's make sure to give credit where credit is due and say "Stradley's Yautja".
Stradley stuck more with the films, and the term Yautja did not originate in the original comics. Stradley did not name the Predator race either, as the narrative was more from a third person point of view. Steve Perry pretty much came up with the Yautja concept. So... that credit does go to Perry.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Nov 23, 2015, 06:21:29 PM
Spoiler
It's cool that he just acknowledged the prologue was a mistake, and it would have been cool to see it take place on the Auriga. Here's hoping the dog-aliens show up, alive, in person sometime in the third novel. Sad to hear that the Arcturians will only be getting mentions, but I remain convinced that Fox has some sort of plan for them, be it in the movies or comics.
I'm not sure how he'd have pulled that off convincingly though - we know what caused the Alien outbreak. We saw it. It was 2 Aliens wailing on another. It'd be contrived to have her there are the same time and let out all the others at that same moment. I'm kind of glad we didn't get it. No more revisionist history please.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 24, 2015, 04:21:01 AM
Ok, I'm actually trying to not read this thread as I'm still reading the book, but I couldn't help noticing mention of "Perry's Yautja". What is this about "Perry's Yautja" you speak of? Is this implying that the Perrys invented the Yautja concept? Please say it isn't so. That book "Prey" was strictly speaking an adaptation of the original series by Randy Stradley. So let's make sure to give credit where credit is due and say "Stradley's Yautja".
Even though Prey is an adaptation, the Yautja are the Perry's invention. That wasn't in Randy Stradley's comic. The Perry's invented the details of that culture. It certainly is the Perry's Yautja.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Nov 23, 2015, 11:01:04 PM
Batman hit the nail on the head with Lebbon using the Yautja name, but not the concept. Also, it seems from his posts that he too believes that there is a multiverse thing going on since he mentions the old universe, the Perryverse, and the new current universe. He's got the right idea.
I think you've clutching at straws here. There was nothing in his post that indicated that's what he believed. He specifically said not to read into anything about the multiverse. I know you want it, Rakai, but it's not something they seem to be officially or canonically putting in there.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 23, 2015, 05:12:31 PMThe Xenopedia wiki uses the abhorrent "e-wat-ya"... where they got that from, I have no idea.
Supposedly Steve Perry clarified that as the correct pronunciation in an interview.
Pretty sure he was asked about it here in the Ask Steve Perry thread.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 24, 2015, 08:40:49 AM
I think you've clutching at straws here. There was nothing in his post that indicated that's what he believed. He specifically said not to read into anything about the multiverse. I know you want it, Rakai, but it's not something they seem to be officially or canonically putting in there.
I was specifically talking about Batman and how he more or less referred to the interpretations of the Predators and how he calls the interpretations/continuities separate universes. And I've already expressed my disappointment, no need to crush a man's dreams any further, man! :'( :laugh:
Fair enough. Didn't realise you were referring to Batman.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Nov 24, 2015, 03:01:25 AM
I know that Perry's Yautja also had acute senses.. Such as being able to pick up smells that human olfactory senses weren't able to pick up, being able to hear things more acutely... Do Lebbon's "Yautja" have such senses which they use on the Hunt?
Not much was explored on their other senses.
But their sense of sight, from what you see on the films you would assume it's not as acute. In the book however, Yautja are able to see small details you'd think they would easily miss.
Like Kalakta knew that Harrigan had "dark skin", despite in the film Harrigan shown bright red like any other human.
And Hashori was able to notice
Spoiler
Lilliya's blood wasn't as "thick" while she was torturing her. She was able to tell human and Synthetic blood apart.
But the main thing that's explored is their intelligence. Out of all the Predators in the eu, these must be the brainiest hunters. They build and modify their own ships individually, clans build the same tech independently without trading or sharing knowledge, technology actually progresses "incredibly quickly" AND they are too stubborn to let humans beat them at certain things like cloaking so they improve very quickly, almost a week later your "top gear" is now obsolete by new and improved Yautja tech.
And I forgot to mention something, do you remember the Disc Master in AvP Extinction? The upgrade gives you a "Nanovibronic Edge" for your disk, remember?
Funny thing is... Lebbon's Yautja use "Nanovibronic Blades". Now, I searched up the word and lots of Predator results pop up... interesting. Maybe Lebbon stumbled upon the word during his research and figured it sounded sexy so he adopted it? ;D
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 24, 2015, 08:42:18 AM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 23, 2015, 05:12:31 PMThe Xenopedia wiki uses the abhorrent "e-wat-ya"... where they got that from, I have no idea.
Supposedly Steve Perry clarified that as the correct pronunciation in an interview.
Really? ??? I checked the "Ask Steve Perry" thread and he specifically said "Ya-oot-cha".
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Nov 24, 2015, 05:31:47 AM
Stradley stuck more with the films, and the term Yautja did not originate in the original comics. Stradley did not name the Predator race either, as the narrative was more from a third person point of view. Steve Perry pretty much came up with the Yautja concept. So... that credit does go to Perry.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the term originated in the Aliens Vs. Predator comic. I don't recall it in the films.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 24, 2015, 04:31:09 PM
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Nov 24, 2015, 05:31:47 AM
Stradley stuck more with the films, and the term Yautja did not originate in the original comics. Stradley did not name the Predator race either, as the narrative was more from a third person point of view. Steve Perry pretty much came up with the Yautja concept. So... that credit does go to Perry.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the term originated in the Aliens Vs. Predator comic. I don't recall it in the films.
The term Yautja originated in the Perry novel, not the comic. It's not used in the films (although it is used for the film merchandise).
Quote from: Xenomrph on Nov 24, 2015, 04:33:58 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 24, 2015, 04:31:09 PM
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Nov 24, 2015, 05:31:47 AM
Stradley stuck more with the films, and the term Yautja did not originate in the original comics. Stradley did not name the Predator race either, as the narrative was more from a third person point of view. Steve Perry pretty much came up with the Yautja concept. So... that credit does go to Perry.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the term originated in the Aliens Vs. Predator comic. I don't recall it in the films.
The term Yautja originated in the Perry novel, not the comic. It's not used in the films (although it is used for the film merchandise).
Really? It's been ages since I read those. I was sure it was in the comics. Got to recheck...
Nope, it's definitely from the Perry novel, it's not in the original comic. :)
In fact I don't think the term Yautja has been used in *any* comic.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Nov 24, 2015, 05:26:44 PM
Nope, it's definitely from the Perry novel, it's not in the original comic. :)
In fact I don't think the term Yautja has been used in *any* comic.
I remember seeing a scan online of a comic, I think it was Three World War, it had the Killer Clan in it. Machiko Noguchi was telling a marine leader how the Hunters won't see him as a leader. In one of the scans, if I remember correctly, she said "Yautja". I may be wrong but I really think that's probably the only comic that used the term.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 24, 2015, 06:22:46 PM
I remember seeing a scan online of a comic, I think it was Three World War, it had the Killer Clan in it. Machiko Noguchi was telling a marine leader how the Hunters won't see him as a leader. In one of the scans, if I remember correctly, she said "Yautja". I may be wrong but I really think that's probably the only comic that used the term.
I don't recall the comic using the term Yautja. Not sure if you're refering to the individually collected issues or the trade edition but.. I don't ever recall it using those words. Infact... I've got my comic box in front of me.. Maybe I should look for you.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 24, 2015, 04:36:39 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Nov 24, 2015, 04:33:58 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 24, 2015, 04:31:09 PM
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Nov 24, 2015, 05:31:47 AM
Stradley stuck more with the films, and the term Yautja did not originate in the original comics. Stradley did not name the Predator race either, as the narrative was more from a third person point of view. Steve Perry pretty much came up with the Yautja concept. So... that credit does go to Perry.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the term originated in the Aliens Vs. Predator comic. I don't recall it in the films.
The term Yautja originated in the Perry novel, not the comic. It's not used in the films (although it is used for the film merchandise).
Really? It's been ages since I read those. I was sure it was in the comics. Got to recheck...
100% originates from the novels.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Nov 24, 2015, 06:59:00 PM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 24, 2015, 06:22:46 PM
I remember seeing a scan online of a comic, I think it was Three World War, it had the Killer Clan in it. Machiko Noguchi was telling a marine leader how the Hunters won't see him as a leader. In one of the scans, if I remember correctly, she said "Yautja". I may be wrong but I really think that's probably the only comic that used the term.
I don't recall the comic using the term Yautja. Not sure if you're refering to the individually collected issues or the trade edition but.. I don't ever recall it using those words. Infact... I've got my comic box in front of me.. Maybe I should look for you.
Please do. I can't remember that too.
I just found the scan and she said "Hunters". I misremembered. I apologize. :)
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Nov 24, 2015, 06:59:00 PM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 24, 2015, 06:22:46 PM
I remember seeing a scan online of a comic, I think it was Three World War, it had the Killer Clan in it. Machiko Noguchi was telling a marine leader how the Hunters won't see him as a leader. In one of the scans, if I remember correctly, she said "Yautja". I may be wrong but I really think that's probably the only comic that used the term.
I don't recall the comic using the term Yautja. Not sure if you're refering to the individually collected issues or the trade edition but.. I don't ever recall it using those words. Infact... I've got my comic box in front of me.. Maybe I should look for you.
Sorry Rakai. I stand corrected and it looks like Yautja did not come from the comics. I'm getting old I think. I wish I could use your time machine and undo my Randy Stradley Yautja post. :-[
Hey it's okay, you acknowledged that you were wrong and learned something new. That's what's important, right? :)
I don't know that any of this is truly "important" but I have no interest in being right all the time. Its all in fun.
So I had to go and dig up my Three World War comic.. Not once is the word Yautja uttered. Not even in narration boxes.
Yeah, I misremembered. Thanks for looking anyway, Rakai.
I would argue that Perry's Yautja, Vandermeer's Predators, and Lebbon's Yautja are all nomadic, tribalistic hunters with an alien but somewhat understandable sense of honour/code of conduct. Only the Hish are really divergent.
Quote from: happypred on Nov 25, 2015, 12:53:01 AM
I would argue that Perry's Yautja, Vandermeer's Predators, and Lebbon's Yautja are all nomadic, tribalistic hunters with an alien but somewhat understandable sense of honour/code of conduct. Only the Hish are really divergent.
If you wanna tie them altogether, that's fine but that would require some serious tweaking. I mean...I would think Perry and Vandermeer's interpretations would be able to better tied together than with Lebbon's.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Nov 25, 2015, 01:02:27 AM
Quote from: happypred on Nov 25, 2015, 12:53:01 AM
I would argue that Perry's Yautja, Vandermeer's Predators, and Lebbon's Yautja are all nomadic, tribalistic hunters with an alien but somewhat understandable sense of honour/code of conduct. Only the Hish are really divergent.
If you wanna tie them altogether, that's fine but that would require some serious tweaking. I mean...I would think Perry and Vandermeer's interpretations would be able to better tied together than with Lebbon's.
From what Vandermeer has said about his Predators in the "Ask Jeff" thread, it's a lot easier to tie his ideas with those of Lebbon's.
One huge thing comes to mind, they both have females that are identical to the males. Unlike Perry's Yautja. So you'd still have to do tons of tweaking to fit Jeff's with Perry's.
And Jeff was asked about if his Predators had "scientists", and he was mentioning how if they did, they'd probably be enslaved or the technology may have been stolen by the Predators and learned how to be operated. That's some Hish like behaviour there.
So in conclusion, Jeff's and Lebbon's could very easily be the same biological species, the behavioural differences could be attributed to different clan cultures.
But besides that, I don't think Jeff did a lot of elaborating on the females in the actual book. I haven't read it so I can't say.
I never read South China Sea, but I heard good things about it. I just don't have the time to read the books, what with work and everything.
Sexual dimorphism aside...not seeing massive differences among these thee interpretations. The cultures aren't that much different. If someone thinks otherwise, please point out the significant cultural differences. I'm all ears
Quote from: happypred on Nov 25, 2015, 12:53:01 AM
I would argue that Perry's Yautja, Vandermeer's Predators, and Lebbon's Yautja are all nomadic, tribalistic hunters with an alien but somewhat understandable sense of honour/code of conduct. Only the Hish are really divergent.
Absolutely seconding this.
Predators aren't a homogeneous race.
Next time someone should ask tim if he could draw us some concept art of the dog and slug aliens. And then the xenos that come from those dog aliens so neca can make aliens figures from them! Oh and i'd also like to see what the queen and soldier aliens looked like from the derelict in river of pain. They had to be different from the colony hive right? I mean, i dont think they were made from humans unless engineers abduct us...but I do remember a human being dissected on an engineer slab in one of the fire and stone comics...
I would love someone to draw the dog-aliens.
I would love to see the Dog-Aliens as well as the Arcturians drawn.
You have a great love of arcturians guan thwei. You seem to be screaming for more of that specific civilisation. But why? All we ever got from the films is that they seem to have both male and female organs that are compatible with ours unless...wait, are you ricco ross, man?? Are you just trolling us ricco ross??
I love it when this franchise introduces other alien races. My favourite bit from Fire and Stone is the panels that show Ahab hunting various aliens throughout the years. The four armed red skinned tribal aliens, the more advanced bug like race with technology that may be decades away from us currently, and then finally this race that wore full futuristic body armour and had holographic technology showing an Engineer.
This is why I loved Prometheus so much, it opened new doors for the franchise and has given us a perfectly valid excuse for why some aliens can be similar to us. I bet Engineers created Arcturians too.
We never knew what the Arcturians from "Aliens" were, many thought they were human colonists on Arcturus. That it was the red light district of space where Colonial Marines went to let off some steam.
But Sea of Sorrows confirms that the Arcturians were the first intelligent alien race that humanity met. Since then, my curiosity about the Arcturians has went through the roof. They were mentioned in River of Pain as being "Trading Partners" with humans. Tim Lebbon has also teased that he will mention the Arcturians but not feature them.
You know if they introduce enough races, they could actually turn this into a very compelling TV series like a dark, cynical Star Trek...
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Dec 02, 2015, 05:04:49 PM
You know if they introduce enough races, they could actually turn this into a very compelling TV series like a dark, cynical Star Trek...
I'd LOVE that.
The Rage War era technology is incredibly advanced and had a cool space battle with humans against the Yautja. The battles were pretty grounded and realistic as well. I always wanted to see ship weaponry in use in this franchise as it's something we hardly ever get to see.
The book says that "some areas of the galaxy thrive with life while others are barren and empty" with certain corners "haunted" by Xenomorphs who no doubt wiped everything out in their vicinity.
Ugh, that's not for me personally.
I'm the opposite in many ways. I'm all for a galaxy that is devoid of life, save for the xenomorphs and their related creators/opponents. It makes them all the more mysterious and frightening. If there are other alien races out there, especially ones that we've made contact with and traded with, it just ruins some of the mysticism for me. A large part of the appeal of this universe is how grounded and realistic it is and I'd rather all that kind of stuff stayed in Star Trek.
But that's just me.
It's a good thing that the franchise has the best of both worlds.
Fans who like their devoid of life, silent, grim, dark, cynical, scary, uncaring galaxy can still enjoy it.
And other fans will get the occasional mention or peek at another civilization trying to etch out a living in the very galaxy described in the sentence above and enjoy it too.
I think Tim Lebbon picked a smart move by saying it depends on where you are in space. We didn't discover Arcturians until probably the 2160's or 70's as there's no mention of anything in Out of the Shadows about this. That goes to show how far apart all intelligent life are.
Also, another thing that's very unique here is that we haven't actually seen any interactions between humans and these other races mentioned in the books, except Engineers and Predators. And speaking of Engineers, it's highly unlikely that Earth was their only petri dish.
And for me personally, adding some more races feels refreshing. I feel there's only so many stories you can tell with just Xenomorphs and Yautja before it gets repetitious. As a fan, I can watch millions of "Predator hunt on *insert world*" movies, but sometimes, I just wanna see a bit more.
It would be pretty cool if Lebbon's 27th century got explored more, maybe in comics or something. Dark Star Trek sounds pretty cool to me. I like a middle ground where there are several alien races, but quite far apart from each other, separated by large swaths of dead space, and largely indifferent or hostile to each other. I like the idea of hinting that life used to be more common throughout space, until something big and bad happened.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Dec 02, 2015, 06:53:01 PM
Ugh, that's not for me personally.
I'm the opposite in many ways. I'm all for a galaxy that is devoid of life, save for the xenomorphs and their related creators/opponents. It makes them all the more mysterious and frightening. If there are other alien races out there, especially ones that we've made contact with and traded with, it just ruins some of the mysticism for me. A large part of the appeal of this universe is how grounded and realistic it is and I'd rather all that kind of stuff stayed in Star Trek.
But that's just me.
Agreed.. and if you ask me.. a universe like that is much more ominous than one that's just bursting with life like we see in Star Wars and Star Trek. I mean when I was reading the old EU and got the sense that the universe was devoid and only had sparse amounts of life, I got the impression that this was likely perhaps in cause to the Xenomorphs being spread around and killing many races. It made them more frightening, it gave the universe a sense of cynicism, hopelessness and danger.
Now we've got races who are chummy-chum-chum cheroo with us.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Dec 02, 2015, 07:25:47 PM
It would be pretty cool if Lebbon's 27th century got explored more, maybe in comics or something. Dark Star Trek sounds pretty cool to me. I like a middle ground where there are several alien races, but quite far apart from each other, separated by large swaths of dead space, and largely indifferent or hostile to each other. I like the idea of hinting that life used to be more common throughout space, until something big and bad happened.
This pretty much sums up how I see the Alien universe. Maybe life has its cycles where at some point there are more and then something happens and then there are few.
Like on Earth, where mass extinctions reduce things to a few.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Dec 02, 2015, 08:53:20 PM
Now we've got races who are chummy-chum-chum cheroo with us.
What's wrong with that?
Technically, wasn't Machiko chum enough with the Predators to be accepted by them and allowed to live in their clan despite the Predator's suicidal protection to keep their tech out of human hands? Wasn't Alex the same with Scar to the point that he accepted her and gave her his clan mark? And we were on good relations with the Arcturians since "Aliens". So it's been like this since the old EU to some extent.
The thing is, this stuff's not explored in the franchise. Even in Rage War, the characters are literally only humans, synthetics and Yautja.
There's no Engineer, no Arcturian, no four armed thing, nothing. The "encounters" with other races are implied to be sparse and many of the races don't give a damn about us, the new books do say that while some were nice, others were either indifferent or hostile. Even the nice ones, we don't keep much contact with, hell, the only ones mentioned by name (as we call them) are the Arcturians with whom we're on good terms with, no one else is listed.
Most races we've seen in the comics, humanity probably hasn't even encountered. Like the Reapers from Aliens: Reapers etc.
I really don't get what's wrong with having some other intelligent creatures besides us in this franchise. It's kind of like people say about the real universe, space is so huge, there's gotta be something out there. In Alien, the Space Jockey is proof enough that there's other intelligences besides humanity. So if there's a Space Jockey, there's bound to be other things, albeit at a ridiculous distance away from us.
I used to like the idea of this franchise being a dark, empty, soulless and barren void with just humanity, Aliens and Predators. But ever since Sea of Sorrows confirms "we've met loads of intelligent alien races" as of 2497, it was something I couldn't ignore as at that time, I kept going back and forth between "empty" galaxy and "has some life in it" galaxy, so Sea of Sorrows helped me solidify my choice.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Dec 02, 2015, 09:12:56 PM
What's wrong with that?
I've always pictured as extraterrestrials in general wanting VERY little to do with us, aside from distance observation. And if they do have something to want to do with us, I personally feel as if it's a very hostile reasoning. The Predators want to hunt us, the Aliens want to use us as breeding stock. I've always pictured the extraterrestrials in the Alien-Predator franchises as generally being either intelligent but hostile, or non-intelligent and hostile, or just non-intelligent wildlife. For the most part in the old EU, that's what we got aside from a few standout races. And I fully liked that idea.. It's what made the old Alien-Predator universe quite unique... no races wanted to help us, most were dead.. where as in Star Trek and Star Wars, you had an abundant of races who were always willing to help out one way or another.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Dec 02, 2015, 09:12:56 PM
Technically, wasn't Machiko chum enough with the Predators to be accepted by them and allowed to live in their clan despite the Predator's suicidal protection to keep their tech out of human hands? Wasn't Alex the same with Scar to the point that he accepted her and gave her his clan mark? And we were on good relations with the Arcturians since "Aliens". So it's been like this since the old EU to some extent.
I miss Machiko Noguchi. I really do miss her but she seems to have gone the way of Mara Jade.. But in regards to Machiko, I'm not arguing her treatment in the Predator clan which she ran with. So I have to ask, why even bring this up when I already know this? Well... in answer to this point.. Machiko was accepted because of her clan marking. She didn't have to go with them but she did because she felt like she didn't fit in with humans. And when she did join up with them well.. a lot of the Predators didn't like her. Top Knot merely TOLERATED her. As for Alexa Woods, who presumably went the way of Machiko Noguchi as Noguchi went the way of Mara Jade, well... sure, she was marked and she had earned enough respect to get a trophy of her own but she could've gone with them... but she didn't. Also as for Predators keeping tech out of human hands, I doubt a telescopic staff is enough to make us a threat and advance us by hundreds of years compared to say.. a plasma caster, and then there is the forensic doctor who had the spear tip. As much as I love(d) the Predator species and the Yautja concept... they've made mistakes here and there.
As for the Arcturians, sure they've been around since Aliens but did anyone really know what they were supposed to be? I mean I've heard conflicting things that they were either these faceless beings who were humanoid, sentient insectoids, or were colonists who just named Arcturians. I've not read everything but I'm only telling you what I've heard from other fans over the years.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Dec 02, 2015, 09:12:56 PM
I really don't get what's wrong with having some other intelligent creatures besides us in this franchise. It's kind of like people say about the real universe, space is so huge, there's gotta be something out there. In Alien, the Space Jockey is proof enough that there's other intelligences besides humanity. So if there's a Space Jockey, there's bound to be other things, albeit at a ridiculous distance away from us.
It's a matter of preference. I just feel like adding in more intelligent life out there makes it like most other Sci-Fi genres out there and I point out to Star Trek the most. Now I am not questioning the possibility of other life out there, infact I am a firm believer that there is life out there but not quite a lot of it being intelligent. From what I'm hearing, I'm just hearing that these authors are trying to add in life bursting everywhere and... I just see it turning to something like Star Wars or Star Trek. I was fine with Aliens, Predators, Space Jockeys (before they became handsome Squidward) and Reapers but seeing more intelligent life in abundance... tone it down a little. We don't need one hundred fifty one races out there, just so we can catch'em all.
You can add to the galaxy without making it Star Trek. Personally I'd hate to see the galaxy teeming with life but I'd also hate to see it completely void of life. I'm after something in the middle. It'd just be nice to see one or two other new regular aliens (whether they're related to the Engineers or something completely independent) to keep it refresh because sooner or later, it'll run out of steam.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Dec 02, 2015, 06:53:01 PMUgh, that's not for me personally.
Yeah, me neither.
The idea of a universe teeming with all these different alien lifeforms doesn't seem to fit with the desolate tone of the series. Space in
Alien should be empty and silent.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 03, 2015, 08:22:56 AM
You can add to the galaxy without making it Star Trek. Personally I'd hate to see the galaxy teeming with life but I'd also hate to see it completely void of life. I'm after something in the middle. It'd just be nice to see one or two other new regular aliens (whether they're related to the Engineers or something completely independent) to keep it refresh because sooner or later, it'll run out of steam.
Exactly. I prefer a perfect balance because sooner or later, it's just "Predator hunt humans on LV 1337", "Xenomorph infest colony on LV 228", "Predator hunt an Alien infestation on New Eden", "Xenos overrun ship". *repeat cycle on different worlds and ships*
But with fire and stone, it showed a panel of Ahab hunting various civilizations throughout the years and to me, it made the Predators infinitely more badass. Like they don't care, they will hunt multiple civilized races without a concern of sentient retaliation. When it's just humans, it kind of makes them seem like a bully race hunting either a primitive humanity or other wildlife. But here, they're hunting other civilized creatures.
And Rakai, you keep comparing this to Star Trek/Wars. Have you thought that an empty void makes the franchise like Dune or Firefly? All of these are good franchises so it doesn't exactly help the case of either side. Dune/Firefly are completely void of other civilizations, only humanity exists in space. But Alien had Space Jockeys from film one so there's immediate proof that there's other creatures out there besides humanity. It's undeniable. The question is "where are they?" And the whole "they're all dead" will just turn it into Dead Space.
I like that Alien is not teeming with life, so both sides can be happy. Like I said, Lebbon did the right thing by saying some pockets of the galaxy thrive with life while others are empty voids of silence. And the aliens that humans have met, it's not like we (the fans) have actually seen them. They don't work in our ships or visit our worlds. Decker from Sea of Sorrows didn't find any Arcturian hookers on Earth. :P
Hey folks, I set up a separate thread for the Aliens TV series discussion. There's even an opinion poll. Come on over. We have donuts (like that one on the desk in Hadley's Hope)...
For those of you who have read South China Sea.
How do Lebbon's Predators compare to the one from SCS? I'm curious as both books have got some good feedback from some people.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Dec 03, 2015, 01:05:25 PM
And Rakai, you keep comparing this to Star Trek/Wars. Have you thought that an empty void makes the franchise like Dune or Firefly? All of these are good franchises so it doesn't exactly help the case of either side. Dune/Firefly are completely void of other civilizations, only humanity exists in space. But Alien had Space Jockeys from film one so there's immediate proof that there's other creatures out there besides humanity. It's undeniable. The question is "where are they?" And the whole "they're all dead" will just turn it into Dead Space.
The only reason why I keep bringing up Star Trek and Star Wars is because I really don't watch a lot of futuristic space-setting Science Fiction. So those are the only two which I had happen to really know about that do have alien lifeforms in it. Of course I know about Babylon 5 but... who remembers that? I most certainly didn't until just now. And I had completely forgotten about Firefly-- then again I never really watched it, so I can't comment on that. As for Frank Herbert's Dune? Yeah, I never saw that either. Most Sci-Fi I don't even watch unless it's Alien, Predator, Robocop or Terminator-- which we all know why I watch those for.. Heh heh heh.
And you're either missing the part where I said I'm not denying there is other life in the Alien-Predator universe other than Aliens, Predators and Space Jockeys, but what I am saying is that I liked the old universe where it was sparse with intelligent life.. and more visceral because of it. And most life out there WASN'T intelligent. The intelligent ones were far and few. All I'm saying is I preferred a universe where INTELLIGENT RACES (note, not life in general) are sparse, apathetic and downright sometimes cruel to the universe where intelligent life is being found more and more.
That's all I'm saying, man.
I just liked the old Alien-Predator universe where it was devoid and visceral, not teeming and cerebral. Just a matter of preference, man.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Dec 04, 2015, 12:07:13 AM
For those of you who have read South China Sea.
How do Lebbon's Predators compare to the one from SCS? I'm curious as both books have got some good feedback from some people.
South China Sea portrays the Predator more typical of the standard/Perry's Yautja code of honor, Lebbon's Predators are more like the Hish.
I thought the South China Sea Predator was just more like the movie one. He was just out for some game good killing. No code of honor.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 04, 2015, 08:40:09 AM
I thought the South China Sea Predator was just more like the movie one. He was just out for some game good killing. No code of honor.
He didn't kill the ex-rocker coward guy. Not much of a challenge. That was pretty Yautja-esque.
The Yautja "code of honour" doesn't really extend far beyond "only hunt dangerous prey"...even in Prey, this code is broken by the novices
It just occurred to me that the new AVP novel might try to deliberately avoid the subject of the Predalien. I hope that the Predalien is featured in this story in some way, to me it's one of the staples of the series and it's really tragic that a concept that has been portrayed in so many good stories like AVP1999, AVP2, etc. will be avoided just because of one unpopular title.
I think the lack of PredAlien is more due to story than any attempt to snub the concept. By all accounts, the Rage
Spoiler
find the Aliens as are. As adults. We don't see a Queen in Incursion (I think they might mention one in relation to the colony ships? But as far as that goes we don't actually see any lava form.
That situation may change and a Queen maybe introduced later on down the line and an opportunity might open up.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 10, 2015, 08:16:34 AM
I think the lack of PredAlien is more due to story than any attempt to snub the concept. By all accounts, the Rage
Spoiler
find the Aliens as are. As adults. We don't see a Queen in Incursion (I think they might mention one in relation to the colony ships? But as far as that goes we don't actually see any lava form.
That situation may change and a Queen maybe introduced later on down the line and an opportunity might open up.
The prologue implies that the ship Lilliya sabotaged had a queen.
But yeah, you're right. Also
Spoiler
the Fiennes ships were used as "nurseries" for the Rage to fuel their Xenomorph army. And these ships were populated by humans so I doubt that the Rage captured any Yautja, they merely used the Yautja as a target practice.
New Book Cover
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1783298316/ref=nosim/authordatabase
Again with the f*cking Colonial Marines screenshots! :laugh:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F71b8GmeVQlL.jpg&hash=421c270eef54a62831bb9c39d8eb8eb18f20234b)
It'd be nice to see some more drawn ones again.
I would still like.a better explanation of why these aliens are so dangerous
Spoiler
...they are controlled by androids...and what? How do these aliens deal with 27th century firepower?
Trying to think how to phrase this.
Spoiler
Obviously the auto-destruct upon death gives them an extra edge but I think it's more of a threat in that they are actually being controlled. Not necessarily the Aliens are more of a threat but them being controlled by the Rage makes them combined a threat.
Quote from: happypred on Dec 17, 2015, 11:57:36 AMI would still like.a better explanation of why these aliens are so dangerous...Spoiler
they are controlled by androids...and what? How do these aliens deal with 27th century firepower?
Dude... Spoilers.
Fixed for you.
Too late :P
Also, don't forget that
Spoiler
The Rage not only use Aliens as weapons, but send out radiowaves that manipulate people's minds on a very physical level, by transforming some neurons into nanobots and controlling people with subliminal messages.
Such as "illuminate our way", where a scientist that studied Yautja encounters in Earth's history was suddenly turned into a fanatical saboteur out of nowhere just be having received the message.
Many other people turned into saboteurs, some got so deep into the Human Sphere and almost sabotaged a major Colonial Marine base, but they got intercepted and terminated as they wouldn't respond to reason.
The Rage are a very deadly threat.
I love the cover for book two, although I got it at the back of my novel, as well as the cover for AvP Armageddon.
Lol it's OK, my own fault for not having read it yet ;D
Spoiler
The radiowaves seem to be a greater threat
Spoiler
To a point. I maybe misremembering but that effect can't be achieved on just anyway. It's pre-conditioned people. So there's a finite number.
Spoiler
Yeah, that's probably how it works. I mean, it's not like they were sent on all channels, just to very specific people. That scientist woman was likely a descendant of the Founders who chose to stay behind, so even if she wasn't as involved in them, she was still conditioned to some extent.
Otherwise, if it were all that powerful, the Rage could easily dominate the Human Sphere by broadcasting it everywhere.
Spoiler
To me, the mind-control was perhaps the worst facet in this new canon; this is a sci-fi horror story created by great minds such as Ridley Scott, James Cameron, and David Fincher, now it's like a comic book franchise. First there was the redefining of Arcturians as an intelligent Star Trek-like alien species of which we exchanged technologies with and now we have humans susceptible to brain control via radio waves. In all honesty, I haven't seen an idea this bad in the Alien series since Randy Pitchford decided to say that new Alien breeds were created due to radioactive fallout in A:CM.
Adding intelligent Aliens doesn't make it Star Trek-like. It isn't a galaxy teeming with life.
It ain't about the number of sapient alien species...it's about the quality of story-telling
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 18, 2015, 08:34:06 AM
Adding intelligent Aliens doesn't make it Star Trek-like. It isn't a galaxy teeming with life.
Exactly, I don't get why people keep saying it's Star Trek like, (like it's a bad thing as well), I mean, an empty galaxy makes it Dune or Firefly if you wanna compare sci fi's.
And all of those other sci fi franchises are good, so comparing them doesn't really belittle the Alien universe.
Lebbon made sure to have a balanced galaxy, it's not teeming with life, sure we've encountered "loads" or "dozens" according to the previous Alien novels, but that could be the majority of life we'll ever find.... and did we see the Arcturians yet? I mean, there's no Arcturian cook on the Sulaco now is there? :P We may trade with them, but we're not that close with them I think. Maybe the Arcturians (as far as intelligent races are concerned) are our "best friends" on a loose level, the kind we trust the most but not too much.
And what about the Predators? Some of the skulls on their trophy wall look like they belong to something very intelligent to be a random alien animal.
Adding other sentient aliens into the story diminishes the impact of the Predators and Engineers though; what made these 2 species so unique in this universe is that they were the only ones of their kind we had discovered. In Star Trek (or Star Wars), there are so many different species that very few people have memorized the names of each individual alien species.
Quote from: predxeno on Dec 19, 2015, 03:21:35 PM
Adding other sentient aliens into the story diminishes the impact of the Predators and Engineers though; what made these 2 species so unique in this universe is that they were the only ones of their kind we had discovered. In Star Trek (or Star Wars), there are so many different species that very few people have memorized the names of each individual alien species.
I think the Alien universe hasn't got a plethora of lifeforms on the level of Star Trek. A few here and there is alright, but they're likely stretched across the galaxy. I think the only race to truly encounter at least 90% of the life in the galaxy are Predators due to them being stretched across this cosmic hunting ground.
And for me, this actually greatly increases the badassery of the Predator.
Think about it for a sec.
Would you rather have this bully race that hunts a primitive humanoid race such as us?
Or would you have this badass bully race that isn't afraid of possible sentient retribution from a possibly more advanced race such as the Engineers. Or a possible alliance against it? A race that just goes around not giving a damn on who and what it hunts, technological or not? South China Sea introduces several alien creatures, and many of them sapient and technological.
I see what you're getting at; truth be told, the Predator has hunted other technolologically advanced alien species before in the EU, I just liked it better when they were living in their own separate spheres.
Quote from: predxeno on Dec 19, 2015, 08:47:55 PM
I see what you're getting at; truth be told, the Predator has hunted other technolologically advanced alien species before in the EU, I just liked it better when they were living in their own separate spheres.
Have we seen any of these cases in the older EU? I feel that some of the skulls belonged to something intelligent, but have they been shown to hunt intelligent races besides us seeing the skulls?
The books with the Hish state that there's more races, or so I've heard.
But do the Yautja books explore this? I think those mainly focused on Predators and humans.
Predator: South China Sea certainly references this; as revealed in the story:
Spoiler
The Predator takes trophies of the advanced technologies of other species it's hunted (including some sort of rainbow hovercraft). In Predator: Forever Midnight, the Hish make slaves of other advanced species and it's revealed that they got space travel by enslaving a peaceful race that visited their planet, I had assumed that was a group of Space Jockeys at the time but now I don't know.
Quote from: predxeno on Dec 19, 2015, 09:27:27 PM
Predator: South China Sea certainly references this; as revealed in the story:
Spoiler
The Predator takes trophies of the advanced technologies of other species it's hunted (including some sort of rainbow hovercraft). In Predator: Forever Midnight, the Hish make slaves of other advanced species and it's revealed that they got space travel by enslaving a peaceful race that visited their planet, I had assumed that was a group of Space Jockeys at the time but now I don't know.
I recently read South China Sea, those bits were so interesting. In the "Ask Jeff" thread
Spoiler
he also proposed a theory that Predators enslaved other races to be their scientists, or they even live in a symbiotic relationship of sorts. In a weird way, that makes sense...
Make weapons for hunters = hunters protect you.
Personally, I never liked the idea of Predators being slavers, at least to other races anyway.. I know that in the old EU, the Yautja had slaves but they were usually Yautja who had decided not to participate in the hunt, or were crippled or deformed Predators.
Quote from: predxeno on Dec 19, 2015, 03:21:35 PM
Adding other sentient aliens into the story diminishes the impact of the Predators and Engineers though; what made these 2 species so unique in this universe is that they were the only ones of their kind we had discovered. In Star Trek (or Star Wars), there are so many different species that very few people have memorized the names of each individual alien species.
Not at all. The impact of the Predators was that an alien was hunting you down. Predator 2 made it better by saying they'd been coming here for ages and that mankind wasn't the only thing they hunted. The presence of more life in the galaxy doesn't detract from any of that.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Dec 20, 2015, 12:41:20 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Dec 19, 2015, 09:27:27 PM
Predator: South China Sea certainly references this; as revealed in the story:
Spoiler
The Predator takes trophies of the advanced technologies of other species it's hunted (including some sort of rainbow hovercraft). In Predator: Forever Midnight, the Hish make slaves of other advanced species and it's revealed that they got space travel by enslaving a peaceful race that visited their planet, I had assumed that was a group of Space Jockeys at the time but now I don't know.
I recently read South China Sea, those bits were so interesting. In the "Ask Jeff" thread Spoiler
he also proposed a theory that Predators enslaved other races to be their scientists, or they even live in a symbiotic relationship of sorts. In a weird way, that makes sense...
Make weapons for hunters = hunters protect you.
I think the slave theory has been around for a while. And it makes perfect sense. If their culture does actively revolve around the hunt, it seems unlikely they'd be any scientists or engineers or etc. Unless that contributing towards the hunt from that angle is considering worthwhile.
Idk about the slavery idea, I always liked the idea that the Predators are so different from us that they don't fit in normal human castes such as jock and nerd; rather they can both hunt and be technologically fluent at the same time. In AVPR, Wolf knew enough about plasmacaster tech to repurpose one into a plasma cannon.
I'd quite like that myself. It'd add a really nice layer to the Predators. Briggs' script has Broken Tusk trying to fix his own wrist computer.
Also, in South China Sea, the Predator does tamper with his tech when it gets broken. I remember a bit where he tried but failed to fix his cloaking device.
But Rage War Yautja are smart enough to completely design their very own ship's cloaking device unknown to their enemies. In a way, I like this as it adds such a huge aura of mystery to the Yautja.
It kind of makes them the toughest and smartest solitary nerds fiction has ever created.
Humans constantly keep questioning how the hell this species is even technological yet alone space faring, one character speculated they use slaves.
By the way, when do you guys think the next book will be set? Will it be weeks later? Months? Or a year or two? Since the first book took place around a span of several months from March to September.
Tim's been doing some edits on Alien: Invasion which he handed in for Christmas.
https://twitter.com/timlebbon/status/679340624357818368
Just thought I'd share.
I wonder what he edited, likely some corrections but I'm curious if there's been some story changes.
I doubt it's anything to be concerned by. Just the usual process.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 30, 2015, 03:41:12 PM
I doubt it's anything to be concerned by. Just the usual process.
That's most likely the case. :) Figured I'd share anyway. Four months to go!
I am having such a hard time getting through the first book. It really jumps around from character without fully fleshing them out. It doesn't feel like somebody's story is being told but rather that many disparate stories are told with no clear focus. I want to believe. I want to be excited, but I am just not catching onto the spirit of the book. Am I alone in this? Haven't been completely reading this thread so no idea what the general response is..
I didn't like Predator: Incursion either though that may be because the story took way too many liberties within its storyline; I don't recall much about the characters but none of them really stood out to me.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Dec 30, 2015, 04:58:07 PM
I am having such a hard time getting through the first book. It really jumps around from character without fully fleshing them out. It doesn't feel like somebody's story is being told but rather that many disparate stories are told with no clear focus. I want to believe. I want to be excited, but I am just not catching onto the spirit of the book. Am I alone in this? Haven't been completely reading this thread so no idea what the general response is..
You're not alone, but the book was always going to be jarring as it's merely a set up for the next two parts.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Dec 30, 2015, 04:58:07 PM
Am I alone in this? Haven't been completely reading this thread so no idea what the general response is..
Shit, I haven't read the book and I already am not too keen (I can't say "I don't like" because.. I haven't read the book) on the changes they've done with the Predator mythology. I can say however, Lebbon should've left written the Predators as Predators, and left the Yautja concept alone.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Dec 30, 2015, 04:58:07 PM
I am having such a hard time getting through the first book. It really jumps around from character without fully fleshing them out. It doesn't feel like somebody's story is being told but rather that many disparate stories are told with no clear focus. I want to believe. I want to be excited, but I am just not catching onto the spirit of the book. Am I alone in this? Haven't been completely reading this thread so no idea what the general response is..
I almost gave up at the chapter with the little girl who loves chocolate
Oh, that was a powerful scene.
There are 2/3 characters who become the focus by the end. I completely agree on it being mostly world building and setup though.
Quote from: predxeno on Dec 31, 2015, 06:11:47 AM
Oh, that was a powerful scene.
Chocolate girl?
I almost laughed out loud
Quote from: happypred on Dec 31, 2015, 05:50:35 PM
Quote from: predxeno on Dec 31, 2015, 06:11:47 AM
Oh, that was a powerful scene.
Chocolate girl?
I almost laughed out loud
I think he means in the sense that it showed a girl living in a space station filled with innocent people, and that
Spoiler
a saboteur completely blew it up thus killing thousands of men women and children.
If you ask me, that's pretty powerful.
And hey, what's wrong with chocolate!? >:( (Just kidding man. :P)
I just thought the whole chapter was clumsily executed. I didn't give two shits when chocolate girl was sucked into space. Zero emotional investment, just glad the chapter ended
Quote from: happypred on Dec 31, 2015, 07:24:05 PM
I just thought the whole chapter was clumsily executed. I didn't give two shits when chocolate girl was sucked into space. Zero emotional investment, just glad the chapter ended
See this is my problem with the book. I was so emotionally uninvested in these characters that I don't even remember chocolate girl. When you guys mentioned chocolate girl in response to my blah experience with this book I figured I'd just keep reading and eventually discover chocolate girl. But it looks like she already happened as I vaguely recall a station blowing up. Bot for the life of me, I can't remember anything about her or if she was a boy or girl even. Maybe I'm just too distracted these days but I'm really trying to give this book a fair shake. It seems every time I try to read a page I prefer to put it down to play some Sudoku. Or maybe its the book...
I guess the book's not your fancy then. :-\
I mean, I'm currently reading a novel and am having such a hard time going through it lol, been at it for months now. While Rage War took me three days to finish and I still remember most of the story like it was yesterday.
Same with South China Sea, finished it in four days. If it's got Predator in it, I must finish it and find out what happens. ;D
Way too many underdeveloped characters
What do you mean by that?
I thought they were fine. There was a lot of character building on
Spoiler
Lilliya and Isa Palant, it was interesting to see a Synthetic grow throughout the centuries, how she wished to be more human. Those bits with her and the Yautja further helped grow the character, showing how she regretted making certain choices and how she loathed being reminded that she was a robot.
Then Isa Palant, how she is obsessed with the Yautja, how her father told her things during her childhood which helped flesh out the character more.
Johnny Mains was also well fleshed out, how he and his squad are like a family, how one of them was inspired by the Yautja to join the Colonial Marines due to the aggressive combat oriented culture.
Then we have SnowDog, who has a drug addiction and how Gerald Marshal one of the Thirteen is kind of dangling it above her without making the blackmail too obvious.
Then that general of the Marines, who served in the Quaille Wars, who killed with his bare hands at one point.
Or how Gerald Marshal has a divorced wife and how he cares about his children, plus how he is humiliated by his weight etc, there's some subtle character development here and there.
This novel is far from having underdeveloped characters if you ask me, it just focuses more on the world rather than one character. It had a lot to explain since it's an entirely new era that's being explored, no other stories take place in the late 27th century, so there was lots to explore and flesh out.
I think book two will add more to the current characters while introducing new ones.
If anyone was underdeveloped, it'd be the Yautja to an extent as the author wasn't focusing too much on them to preserve the mystery. But from what we've got, it helped flesh out the race. The few Yautja characters all had their own personality, and were teased rather than developed, we were given scraps of development about the named Yautja.
Checked out Tristan Jones' Tumblr...
Apparently, Incursion is one of his research pieces along with a bunch of Alien books... Why a Predator book though?
I think he's doing it to get a better view on their inner workings. Novels do tend to go into a lot of detail on things that can be easily missed out in a movie.
I remember first watching the Hannibal movies before reading the books and was astonished to see how much was left out.
So, perhaps there's something that Tristan Jones wants to know that isn't in the films, Rage War is kind of a different type of plot than the usual "Predator hunt on Earth/Random Planet" story
If he's doing it for his aliens comic then I'm fine with that. But if he's doing something for the Predators is well, I really wished that he would look at the Perry novels too. Not too keen on Lebbon's Yautja.
Maybe he just wanted to research the more recent stuff as that would make sense, there have been lots of different books on the Predator with very different ideas, plus it's recent and cheap, not something like South China Sea which is worth a fortune now, and I mean the "water damaged" version... so yeah, might as well grab the new cheap stuff with up to date information.
Either that or the higher ups just told him to read Incursion for his research.
I'm glad though, I really loved Incursion so this is great news for me.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Jan 02, 2016, 04:22:44 AM
Apparently, Incursion is one of his research pieces along with a bunch of Alien books... Why a Predator book though?
It's not strictly a Predator book per-se.
Quote from: happypred on Jan 01, 2016, 02:01:38 PM
Way too many underdeveloped characters
Whilst the book is definitely more about setting up the world and the upcoming books, I think the main characters (who I think will be the main characters) of the trilogy are very well developed.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 04, 2016, 08:39:58 AM
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Jan 02, 2016, 04:22:44 AM
Apparently, Incursion is one of his research pieces along with a bunch of Alien books... Why a Predator book though?
It's not strictly a Predator book per-se.
Quote from: happypred on Jan 01, 2016, 02:01:38 PM
Way too many underdeveloped characters
Whilst the book is definitely more about setting up the world and the upcoming books, I think the main characters (who I think will be the main characters) of the trilogy are very well developed.
Speaking of main characters.
Do you think
Spoiler
Johnny Mains and the last surviving marine stranded on UMF-12 will die? Xenomorphs were scurrying up to the place in droves, not to mention it was in decaying orbit around the star and literally had less than two days before burning up.
And the ship they found won't budge...
It's looking grim of poor Johnny!
Based on the ending,
Spoiler
I don't think we'll be seeing Mains or Lieder alive again.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jan 04, 2016, 10:31:46 PM
Based on the ending, Spoiler
I don't think we'll be seeing Mains or Lieder alive again.
Yeah, it's a cold and harsh universe out there!
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jan 04, 2016, 10:31:46 PM
Based on the ending, Spoiler
I don't think we'll be seeing Mains or Lieder alive again.
I can't say I was a massive fan of the VoidLarks. Didn't get into them as much as Isa or Liliya - who I loved.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 05, 2016, 09:01:15 AM
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jan 04, 2016, 10:31:46 PM
Based on the ending, Spoiler
I don't think we'll be seeing Mains or Lieder alive again.
I can't say I was a massive fan of the VoidLarks. Didn't get into them as much as Isa or Liliya - who I loved.
I enjoyed the VoidLarks, but like yourself, I loved Isa and Lilliya the most.
Spoiler
(Now watch as Lebbon kills those two off.... :laugh:)
Too many characters...all flatly written.
There's something that I have noticed that was in the previous Alien trilogy as well as Incursion.
Three of the books have that one passage that mentions alien life, and how some were friendly while others were hostile, it's just a strangely consistent passage.
Do you guys think this'll be explored someday? I know Incursion is technically exploring it with humans and Yautja. But what of all these other friendly and hostile civilizations?
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Jan 07, 2016, 09:00:54 PM
There's something that I have noticed that was in the previous Alien trilogy as well as Incursion.
Three of the books have that one passage that mentions alien life, and how some were friendly while others were hostile, it's just a strangely consistent passage.
Do you guys think this'll be explored someday? I know Incursion is technically exploring it with humans and Yautja. But what of all these other friendly and hostile civilizations?
I think someone is sowing seeds for some dark Star Trek type of thing to be built from the Aliens universe...
The similarity of references makes me think it's coming from whatever current bible Fox has the different writers operating from. Josh Izzo is the one running things with the license over at Fox, and I think he probably wants to deal with the Arcturians and other alien races at some point in the future. There wouldn't be any better time to show us what an Arcturian is than 2016. ;D
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 07, 2016, 09:07:55 PM
I think someone is sowing seeds for some dark Star Trek type of thing to be built from the Aliens universe...
Eeeeeeeeh.. so it's all gone vanilla now? :-\
I really want to see some other intelligent lifeform crop up and have consistant and repeating dealings with both the Aliens and humanity. It'd be nice to add some variety to it.
^That's the exact opposite of what I want.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 07, 2016, 09:30:13 PM
I really want to see some other intelligent lifeform crop up and have consistant and repeating dealings with both the Aliens and humanity. It'd be nice to add some variety to it.
Same here. More stories like
Reapers or
Incubation would be cool, especially since there's some cool potential for stories with no intelligible spoken dialog that would have to rely on visual storytelling.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jan 07, 2016, 11:53:41 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 07, 2016, 09:30:13 PM
I really want to see some other intelligent lifeform crop up and have consistant and repeating dealings with both the Aliens and humanity. It'd be nice to add some variety to it.
Same here. More stories like Reapers or Incubation would be cool, especially since there's some cool potential for stories with no intelligible spoken dialog that would have to rely on visual storytelling.
Not just aliens and humans, but I'd love to see more of Predators hunting other intelligent aliens. South China Sea explored this beautifully. It'd be cool to have a short story of a Predator hunting another race and show how they deal with a Predator, this would be a perfect excuse for a successful hunt because we won't really have a human hero to root for and lots of us are Predator fans.
^This. Some of my favorite parts of Predator: FaS were when we saw Ahab hunting different aliens. A whole prequel series about him hunting on different planets in search of the Engineers would be amazing.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jan 08, 2016, 12:02:34 AM
^This. Some of my favorite parts of Predator: FaS were when we saw Ahab hunting different aliens. A whole prequel series about him hunting on different planets in search of the Engineers would be amazing.
Yes! That would be so perfect.
Also, the comic could explore some really bizarre and alien technologies that the Predator would come across while hunting another technological race.
I can imagine these aliens staring at a hologram of a Predator as they realize the killings are very familiar to past encounters. Have the story be told very visually like some of the FaS sections, and since it's a short story, it won't have to be some overly complex comic or anything, maybe a one shot comic. :P
Or if they want to, have some fancy symbols show up in the speech bubbles and then English words between, as a reminder that this is just translated speech of an alien language. Like some comics do with scenes in a foreign country.
Great ideas! It would be neat to see how the Predators respond to different alien technologies.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 07, 2016, 09:30:13 PM
I really want to see some other intelligent lifeform crop up and have consistant and repeating dealings with both the Aliens and humanity. It'd be nice to add some variety to it.
YouTube pretty much będę tak serwisem to do that...
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 08, 2016, 01:22:07 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 07, 2016, 09:30:13 PM
I really want to see some other intelligent lifeform crop up and have consistant and repeating dealings with both the Aliens and humanity. It'd be nice to add some variety to it.
YouTube pretty much będę tak serwisem to do that...
This is the best response I read so far as I literally do not understand it, but it sounds awesome.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 08, 2016, 01:22:07 AM
YouTube pretty much będę tak serwisem to do that...
"Youtube I pretty much like this service to do that"...
....What?
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 07, 2016, 11:21:05 PM
^That's the exact opposite of what I want.
Kind of feeling you there, PredXeno... Ummm... more and more it's... feeling like this franchise is no longer for me. I think it outgrew me.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Jan 08, 2016, 02:29:53 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 07, 2016, 11:21:05 PM
^That's the exact opposite of what I want.
Kind of feeling you there, PredXeno... Ummm... more and more it's... feeling like this franchise is no longer for me. I think it outgrew me.
No, I think you're outgrowing it, and I feel you there. bro.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 08, 2016, 02:31:04 AM
No, I think you're outgrowing it, and I feel you there. bro.
No man, it's definitely the inverse. I liked it before when everything was just simple and not as connected but now everything has to be complex and interconnected. Like you, I just.. don't want it to become like every other space sci-fi out there and it's looking like it's going to be.
I mean part of the charm of the old stuff, as much as the new EU supporters trash on it, was that there was little involvement of other life forms in regards to humanity's space faring and interactions. Yes, I very much preferred the dark, desolate void with few intelligent life and to me... I felt that was appropriate and very much true in the spirit of Alien-Predator. It was visceral. Now what we're getting is cerebral.
That's why I say it outgrew me. I preferred it when it was all visceral.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Jan 08, 2016, 01:56:20 AM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 08, 2016, 01:22:07 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 07, 2016, 09:30:13 PM
I really want to see some other intelligent lifeform crop up and have consistant and repeating dealings with both the Aliens and humanity. It'd be nice to add some variety to it.
YouTube pretty much będę tak serwisem to do that...
This is the best response I read so far as I literally do not understand it, but it sounds awesome.
Oh no! I wrote that on my iPad but the language was set for Polish and spell check wrote that! I was going to change it but then I saw something shiny and I got distracted. I was trying to say:
"Yes you pretty much need a TV show to do that"
Damn spell check! RITILMFAO :laugh:
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jan 08, 2016, 12:02:34 AM
^This. Some of my favorite parts of Predator: FaS were when we saw Ahab hunting different aliens. A whole prequel series about him hunting on different planets in search of the Engineers would be amazing.
One of the best things Predator 2 did was show us that the Predators hunted more than just humans - and Aliens. We only ever really got glimpses of that in the various media. Whilst my over all opinion of the Fire and Stone series was a little disappointed, I absolutely
loved the Predator series and I loved seeing them hunt things that weren't human.
There's only so long that the Predator hunting humans or Aliens can be interesting. As I constantly say, the galaxy doesn't need to be teeming with life but it could do with one or 2 other species to add some variety and keep things fresh. It others don't want to see it, that's fine - I'm happy they're keeping me happy with things like Ahab and the Engineer.
Would have liked more of a battle of wits between Ahab and Baldy...the burly brawl was a bit silly
Me too. That was my only issue with the series really.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 08, 2016, 09:25:49 AM
Me too. That was my only issue with the series really.
Yeah...just imagine Ahab employing tactical acumen to minimise the Engineer's incredible strength/durability, rather than playing to the Engineer's strengths. Ahab should've been crafty
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 08, 2016, 08:10:27 AM
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jan 08, 2016, 12:02:34 AM
^This. Some of my favorite parts of Predator: FaS were when we saw Ahab hunting different aliens. A whole prequel series about him hunting on different planets in search of the Engineers would be amazing.
One of the best things Predator 2 did was show us that the Predators hunted more than just humans - and Aliens. We only ever really got glimpses of that in the various media. Whilst my over all opinion of the Fire and Stone series was a little disappointed, I absolutely loved the Predator series and I loved seeing them hunt things that weren't human.
There's only so long that the Predator hunting humans or Aliens can be interesting. As I constantly say, the galaxy doesn't need to be teeming with life but it could do with one or 2 other species to add some variety and keep things fresh. It others don't want to see it, that's fine - I'm happy they're keeping me happy with things like Ahab and the Engineer.
^
This pretty much sums up my thoughts. I don't mind one or two new races, the Arcturians would be a very nice addition and lots can be explored on them, as well as the Dog-Aliens.
It can still be thrown around that we've encountered "loads", but not all of them have to appear. Just flesh out one or two more, but leave the rest to be hunted by Predators in some cool short story or something. It leaves room for very creative designs and cultures.
The best thing with AvP franchise is that all the aliens have a language and culture, literally. No silly universal translator in some first encounter scenario, it's all seems to be some exciting yet a bit awkward first encounter.
Quote from: happypred on Jan 08, 2016, 09:22:32 AM
Would have liked more of a battle of wits between Ahab and Baldy...the burly brawl was a bit silly
I'd love to see some battle of wits in Predator Life and Death, maybe the Engineers might appear and use technology to repel both humans and Yautja.
Quote from: happypred on Jan 08, 2016, 02:54:01 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 08, 2016, 09:25:49 AM
Me too. That was my only issue with the series really.
Yeah...just imagine Ahab employing tactical acumen to minimise the Engineer's incredible strength/durability, rather than playing to the Engineer's strengths. Ahab should've been crafty
Imagine a reverse Dutch scenario, where the Predator crafts traps for the Engineer, where he realizes "holy crap, this prey is too deadly to face one on one" and starts being a proper hunter than a warrior, intent on claiming that trophy through tactical thinking rather than chest pounding pride.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Jan 08, 2016, 02:55:19 PMIt can still be thrown around that we've encountered "loads", but not all of them have to appear. Just flesh out one or two more, but leave the rest to be hunted by Predators in some cool short story or something. It leaves room for very creative designs and cultures.
I'd rather intelligent life be kept to absolute minimum. By all means have lots of life in the universe, but make the vast majority of it unintelligent. Because that's probably how it would be.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 08, 2016, 03:16:50 PM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Jan 08, 2016, 02:55:19 PMIt can still be thrown around that we've encountered "loads", but not all of them have to appear. Just flesh out one or two more, but leave the rest to be hunted by Predators in some cool short story or something. It leaves room for very creative designs and cultures.
I'd rather intelligent life be kept to absolute minimum. By all means have lots of life in the universe, but make the vast majority of it unintelligent. Because that's probably how it would be.
I suspect that intelligent life blossoms wherever any life at all blooms but it just blows itself up within about 10,000 years of inventing the wheel. So the odds of there being multiple instances of intelligent life in the universe seem slim, but who knows? For the purposes of the Alien universe, it may be interesting to find multiple intelligent species who are quite simply long gone. That's more eerie and somehow consistent with the first Alien film. "looks like its been dead a long time.... fossilized".
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 08, 2016, 03:23:53 PMI suspect that intelligent life blossoms wherever any life at all blooms but it just blows itself up within about 10,000 years of inventing the wheel.
I highly doubt that. If it happens so readily, why aren't there more sentient species like humans out of the
millions that are on Earth? Because it's not easy.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Jan 08, 2016, 02:55:19 PM
I'd love to see some battle of wits in Predator Life and Death, maybe the Engineers might appear and use technology to repel both humans and Yautja.
I was a bit disappointed we didn't see the Engineer whip out any cool tech to fight Ahab. I hope he'll use some technology in Life and Death!
QuoteImagine a reverse Dutch scenario, where the Predator crafts traps for the Engineer, where he realizes "holy crap, this prey is too deadly to face one on one" and starts being a proper hunter than a warrior, intent on claiming that trophy through tactical thinking rather than chest pounding pride.
That is something I would absolutely
love to see.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 08, 2016, 03:16:50 PM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Jan 08, 2016, 02:55:19 PMIt can still be thrown around that we've encountered "loads", but not all of them have to appear. Just flesh out one or two more, but leave the rest to be hunted by Predators in some cool short story or something. It leaves room for very creative designs and cultures.
I'd rather intelligent life be kept to absolute minimum. By all means have lots of life in the universe, but make the vast majority of it unintelligent. Because that's probably how it would be.
Just a few is fine. We don't want to oversaturate it but a few would give good fodder for more story diversity.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 08, 2016, 03:26:29 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 08, 2016, 03:23:53 PMI suspect that intelligent life blossoms wherever any life at all blooms but it just blows itself up within about 10,000 years of inventing the wheel.
I highly doubt that. If it happens so readily, why aren't there more sentient species like humans out of the millions that are on Earth? Because it's not easy.
This is highly speculative obviously. I expect Natural selection would prevent multiple species from evolving that are intelligent. For example, if we suddenly noticed that dogs became capable of listening to what we do and then telling others or if they started building bombs, we'd wipe them out. I mean look at the way we treat other human beings. Every significantly powerful nation is trying to outdo other nations for fear of being replaced at the top of the pecking order. It is natural that intelligent species like ours will fight each other as long as they use language, which they would have to in order to communicate (unless they're telepathic). The simple fact of a planet being large enough to sustain life means that there will be wars among different intelligent species and even the same species. For example, because the distances between cultures are so vast, different sounds are assigned to ideas for communicative purposes. This is how we get different languages. Everyone wants their language to dominate to make their own life easier, so we get wars.
Intelligence along the lines of ours IS likely extremely rare. On our own planet it took many millions of years of evolution for one species to do what we do. And yet the language and culture conflicts persist. If we don't resolve them to everyone's mutual satisfaction, we'll probably blow ourselves up eventually. That's just a matter of time.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 08, 2016, 03:23:53 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 08, 2016, 03:16:50 PM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Jan 08, 2016, 02:55:19 PMIt can still be thrown around that we've encountered "loads", but not all of them have to appear. Just flesh out one or two more, but leave the rest to be hunted by Predators in some cool short story or something. It leaves room for very creative designs and cultures.
I'd rather intelligent life be kept to absolute minimum. By all means have lots of life in the universe, but make the vast majority of it unintelligent. Because that's probably how it would be.
I suspect that intelligent life blossoms wherever any life at all blooms but it just blows itself up within about 10,000 years of inventing the wheel. So the odds of there being multiple instances of intelligent life in the universe seem slim, but who knows? For the purposes of the Alien universe, it may be interesting to find multiple intelligent species who are quite simply long gone. That's more eerie and somehow consistent with the first Alien film. "looks like its been dead a long time.... fossilized".
BTW, when I say blossoms, I don't mean that it appears everywhere. I mean that one species at some point in time blossoms, or surfaces...
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 08, 2016, 03:16:50 PM
I'd rather intelligent life be kept to absolute minimum. By all means have lots of life in the universe, but make the vast majority of it unintelligent. Because that's probably how it would be.
Agreed.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Jan 08, 2016, 02:55:19 PM
Imagine a reverse Dutch scenario, where the Predator crafts traps for the Engineer, where he realizes "holy crap, this prey is too deadly to face one on one" and starts being a proper hunter than a warrior, intent on claiming that trophy through tactical thinking rather than chest pounding pride.
That would be really neat. A Predator getting in over his head and having to survive could make a great story.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 08, 2016, 03:27:06 PM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Jan 08, 2016, 02:55:19 PM
I'd love to see some battle of wits in Predator Life and Death, maybe the Engineers might appear and use technology to repel both humans and Yautja.
I was a bit disappointed we didn't see the Engineer whip out any cool tech to fight Ahab. I hope he'll use some technology in Life and Death!
Same here. The second and third issues of Predator:FaS had such a great build-up, with the mountains of dead xenomorphs, that I was really hoping the Engineer would pull out some super-advanced tech or something when he fought Ahab. That's why the solicitation for Life and Death has me somewhat optimistic that we'll see Engineer tech other than the black goo. Either way, I hope that the Engineers have a bit more context in the new comics. FaS sort of had them (was there more than one in that series?) just wandering around "being mysterious."
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Jan 08, 2016, 02:55:19 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 08, 2016, 08:10:27 AM
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jan 08, 2016, 12:02:34 AMImagine a reverse Dutch scenario, where the Predator crafts traps for the Engineer
Yep...would have been more interesting than a fistfight
Predators are hunters, not boxers. Look at how Ahab took out the four armed aliens. With stealth
Alien vs. Predator: Armageddon has gone live on Amazon for pre-order, with a release date of September 27, 2016.
http://www.amazon.com/Alien-vs-Predator-Armageddon-Rage/dp/1783296194/ref=pd_sim_14_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=1BJANJVXZNEZXJTHFGRQ (http://www.amazon.com/Alien-vs-Predator-Armageddon-Rage/dp/1783296194/ref=pd_sim_14_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=1BJANJVXZNEZXJTHFGRQ)
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jan 16, 2016, 01:30:35 AM
Alien vs. Predator: Armageddon has gone live on Amazon for pre-order, with a release date of September 27, 2016.
http://www.amazon.com/Alien-vs-Predator-Armageddon-Rage/dp/1783296194/ref=pd_sim_14_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=1BJANJVXZNEZXJTHFGRQ (http://www.amazon.com/Alien-vs-Predator-Armageddon-Rage/dp/1783296194/ref=pd_sim_14_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=1BJANJVXZNEZXJTHFGRQ)
Really exciting news!
Only three months until Book 2!
I got some speculative questions.
So seeing how
Spoiler
we didn't see the Yautja and humans team up until the second to last chapter of the book, how do you think the alliance will work? Will the leaders of each race strategize together? Who exactly will be in charge of this team up?
Also, how will this change the relationship of the two races by the end? Will the Yautja still hunt humans? Or will they see them as allies who have helped in a great historical battle?
I've been wondering those same things, too.
Spoiler
I'm sure that the human leadership will have some level of coordination with the Predators, but my guess is that Lebbon will keep it to a minimum so as to avoid it becoming cheesy. As far as what will happen after the Rage War, I imagine things will probably go back to how they were before. The Predators don't seem like ones to change! :laugh: Then again, we don't know how far out of control things will get by Book 3, so maybe the status quo will be totally altered. I'm holding out hope the dog-aliens will show up in the third book, which could really shake up the balance of power.
Man, when I think about all the stuff coming out this year, I just get so happy. An ongoing comic set between the first two movies, the rest of the far-future Rage War, another A/P crossover with Prometheus, and all the re-releases of the old novels and comics. Things haven't been active since probably '93-'95.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jan 17, 2016, 05:10:21 PM
I've been wondering those same things, too. Spoiler
I'm sure that the human leadership will have some level of coordination with the Predators, but my guess is that Lebbon will keep it to a minimum so as to avoid it becoming cheesy. As far as what will happen after the Rage War, I imagine things will probably go back to how they were before. The Predators don't seem like ones to change! :laugh: Then again, we don't know how far out of control things will get by Book 3, so maybe the status quo will be totally altered. I'm holding out hope the dog-aliens will show up in the third book, which could really shake up the balance of power.
Man, when I think about all the stuff coming out this year, I just get so happy. An ongoing comic set between the first two movies, the rest of the far-future Rage War, another A/P crossover with Prometheus, and all the re-releases of the old novels and comics. Things haven't been active since probably '93-'95.
It's a great time to be a hardcore fan. ;D
Spoiler
Yeah, I got really interested when Isa Palant mentioned how Weyland-Yutani would try to "bring politics" into the negotiation with the Predators. Remember when they threatened to "nuke the f**k" out of the Predator homeworld? I wonder if the corporation will still have an agenda even in this time of strife?
I can't wait to see Lilliya and Hashori's adventures as well. Oh man! Three freakin' months to go! And then five months after that it's book three! At least Predator Life and Death will keep us entertained until book three!
Yeah, W-Y threatening to
Spoiler
nuke
the Predator Homeworld was dumb, especially considering the Yautja have a whole "Death Before Dishonor" thing going.
That was the point.
Isa does question whether the company even knows where the honeworld is seeing as no one else seems to know.
The Rage War sounds horrible to me.
Just out of curiosity, how far in the future does it take place?
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jan 18, 2016, 07:27:46 PM
Just out of curiosity, how far in the future does it take place?
I think 200 years after Resurrection.
A little more than that. It's set in 2692.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jan 18, 2016, 07:27:46 PM
The Rage War sounds horrible to me.
Just out of curiosity, how far in the future does it take place?
Starts in March 2692 and concludes in September 2692.
I do think there were some mistakes in Predator: Incursion that altered the timeline incorrectly; that story was supposed to take place after Alien: Sea of Sorrows but the author made a mistake and it ended up taking place before, right? At least, that's what I heard.
That's just the opening chapter, which is set 200 years before the rest of the novel, and Lebbon admitted it was a mistake. It didn't effect the rest of the novel, though.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jan 20, 2016, 02:16:01 AM
That's just the opening chapter, which is set 200 years before the rest of the novel, and Lebbon admitted it was a mistake. It didn't effect the rest of the novel, though.
Exactly.
And in my headcanon, the USM, some independent company guy (Burke style) or some other company found some samples on that planet and after some screw ups, it was all covered up and forgotten. :P
Either way, it really doesn't get in the way of the story at all, you can just as easily correct the dates mentally to any point after 2497.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Jan 20, 2016, 02:36:59 AM
Exactly.
And in my headcanon, the USM, some independent company guy (Burke style) or some other company found some samples on that planet and after some screw ups, it was all covered up and forgotten. :P
Either way, it really doesn't get in the way of the story at all, you can just as easily correct the dates mentally to any point after 2497.
I thought the references in the book to the samples from LV-178 were the ones from Sea of Sorrows that were stolen from the opening prologue?
They were meant to be, but Tim Lebbon got the dates wrong. The prologue was in 2351 while Sea of Sorrows ends in 2497.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/website/interviews/tim-lebbon-interview-predator-incursion/
QuoteAvPGalaxy – The prologue for Predator – Incursion is set in 2351 which takes place before Alien Resurrection (2380) and before the events of Aliens – Sea of Sorrows (2497) which the prologue seems to reference. Was this a mistake or is there something more going on behind this we don't know yet?
Tim Lebbon – Curious. Here's where my memory is tested. Earlier drafts of the final novel had the prologue taking place much later (2428), but it was changed in the edit. It would still have been earlier than Sea of Sorrows. Also, my original draft had the Prologue actually taking place aboard Auriga, but that was changed in subsequent drafts (probably due to the Alien 5 announcement, although I can't be certain of that ... again, my dodgy memory). So ... I have to admit to the date discrepancy probably being a mistake rather than a hint of something larger at play. It should have been picked up in the edit and proofing. Mea culpa.
AvPGalaxy – Can you tell us a little more about that original opening on the Auriga? Did it feature Liliya stealing data from Wren and Gedimen instead?
Tim Lebbon – No one was named, but yes, it featured Liliya stealing the research from Auriga and actually being the cause of the Xenomorph escape on that ship. It was a fun scene because it mentioned the Ripley clone – though she was never seen – and fans might have enjoyed a few references to Resurrection. But it works better as it is now.
It's a pity about the Auriga scene being cut, but it's also interesting to note how intent Fox is on dividing the "multiverse" so to speak.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 20, 2016, 11:00:16 PM
It's a pity about the Auriga scene being cut, but it's also interesting to note how intent Fox is on dividing the "multiverse" so to speak.
Such a shame Lebbon cock teased us about that...
QuoteTim Lebbon – No one was named, but yes, it featured Liliya stealing the research from Auriga and actually being the cause of the Xenomorph escape on that ship. It was a fun scene because it mentioned the Ripley clone – though she was never seen – and fans might have enjoyed a few references to Resurrection. But it works better as it is now.
Wow. Sucks that something like that got cut. I would've really liked to see it.
Personally I'm glad it was removed. I'm getting a little too wary of the retcons and I wouldn't like to see Liliya have been responsible for the Aliens escaping. We saw how they escaped. They did it themselves.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Jan 20, 2016, 11:54:50 PM
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 20, 2016, 11:00:16 PM
It's a pity about the Auriga scene being cut, but it's also interesting to note how intent Fox is on dividing the "multiverse" so to speak.
Such a shame Lebbon cock teased us about that...
He didn't tease it.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 21, 2016, 09:11:37 AM
Personally I'm glad it was removed. I'm getting a little too wary of the retcons and I wouldn't like to see Liliya have been responsible for the Aliens escaping. We saw how they escaped. They did it themselves.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Jan 20, 2016, 11:54:50 PM
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 20, 2016, 11:00:16 PM
It's a pity about the Auriga scene being cut, but it's also interesting to note how intent Fox is on dividing the "multiverse" so to speak.
Such a shame Lebbon cock teased us about that...
He didn't tease it.
I'm glad it was left out as well, we don't need too many coincidences in this franchise.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Jan 21, 2016, 02:19:14 PMI'm glad it was left out as well, we don't need too many coincidences in this franchise.
In this case I'd hardly call it a coincidence. The USM are researching Aliens, so of course that's where the data will be.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 21, 2016, 02:34:47 PM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Jan 21, 2016, 02:19:14 PMI'm glad it was left out as well, we don't need too many coincidences in this franchise.
In this case I'd hardly call it a coincidence. The USM are researching Aliens, so of course that's where the data will be.
I like that the prologue shows that the Auriga wasn't the only ship with Xenomorphs in it and the data, and the fact that a previous ship lost it all thanks to Lilliya could add to the USM's desperation to get more samples which leads to the Auriga incident.
So in a way, it links but explores a new setting at the same time.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 21, 2016, 02:34:47 PM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Jan 21, 2016, 02:19:14 PMI'm glad it was left out as well, we don't need too many coincidences in this franchise.
In this case I'd hardly call it a coincidence. The USM are researching Aliens, so of course that's where the data will be.
Perhaps it'd be better to call it contrived. I could buy into her sneaking on to get data, not causing the escape of the Aliens.
Thinking back to when I asked about how the previous trilogy and Incursion consistently mentioned humans meeting other races and how some were friendly, others not and some were indifferent. (Each book tended to add a term) and asking if this was leading somewhere.
I was re-reading the interview with Tim Lebbon and found something interesting.
In his initial discussion with the editor, the Founcers/Rage were originally going to be another alien race that has learned to weaponize the Aliens and unleashed them on humanity.
That would've been very interesting to see, I'm glad they're open to this idea. I loved the Founders in the book even if they were humans, they were so interesting and their chapters really helped flesh out the galaxy and show how alien some planets can be. And the new technologies that were introduced.
The fact that they were going to be aliens also reminded me of someone here saying that Ash was going to be a Martian at first before he was changed into an Android.
In other news, I checked out Twitter and Tim's plotting the end of the Rage War. I guess that means the third book! This is so exciting.
Damn, every time I try to finish reading this book I jusy wind up playing Sudoku!
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Jan 22, 2016, 01:38:29 PM
In his initial discussion with the editor, the Founcers/Rage were originally going to be another alien race that has learned to weaponize the Aliens and unleashed them on humanity.
That would've been very interesting to see, I'm glad they're open to this idea. I loved the Founders in the book even if they were humans, they were so interesting and their chapters really helped flesh out the galaxy and show how alien some planets can be. And the new technologies that were introduced.
As much as I really loved the Founder, I would have been interested and possibly preferred to have seen a new alien species. Only if they'd have been fleshed out and not remained an enigma though.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 22, 2016, 03:09:22 PM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Jan 22, 2016, 01:38:29 PM
In his initial discussion with the editor, the Founcers/Rage were originally going to be another alien race that has learned to weaponize the Aliens and unleashed them on humanity.
That would've been very interesting to see, I'm glad they're open to this idea. I loved the Founders in the book even if they were humans, they were so interesting and their chapters really helped flesh out the galaxy and show how alien some planets can be. And the new technologies that were introduced.
As much as I really loved the Founder, I would have been interested and possibly preferred to have seen a new alien species. Only if they'd have been fleshed out and not remained an enigma though.
I agree.
Imagine if they were an alien race, but were explored in the same way that the Founders were in the book. Not a lot being given, but enough to give us an idea of who they are and what they want.
And Tim's teasing about an idea for the Dog-Aliens in the third book, whether they'll appear or not is unknown but damn it, Tim! Stop teasing! We gotta go through book two first!
I'm glad it wasn't an alien race who were the antagonists, that sounds too corny to me, then again mind control is even more corny and for some reason that made it into the book. :(
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 21, 2016, 09:11:37 AM
He didn't tease it.
Wasn't referring to the Auriga scene but something else PredXeno alluded to.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 23, 2016, 06:21:13 PM
I'm glad it wasn't an alien race who were the antagonists, that sounds too corny to me, then again mind control is even more corny and for some reason that made it into the book. :(
You know that seems to be a common trope in the Alien franchise. Mind controlled Xenomorphs.. I could only think of one or two instances that's happened but are there any others?
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Jan 23, 2016, 09:59:57 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 21, 2016, 09:11:37 AM
He didn't tease it.
Wasn't referring to the Auriga scene but something else PredXeno alluded to.
I know - you were talking about the multiverse. Lebbon didn't tease it. It was just a throwaway comment.
QuoteYou know that seems to be a common trope in the Alien franchise. Mind controlled Xenomorphs.. I could only think of one or two instances that's happened but are there any others?
What instances can you think of?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 23, 2016, 10:11:31 PM
I know - you were talking about the multiverse. Lebbon didn't tease it. It was just a throwaway comment.
Which is quite a shame.. My opinion though. I mean I know he put it in there to show how far the Founders progressed but... I feel like now it's a wasted opportunity. Maybe then I wouldn't be so angry.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 23, 2016, 10:11:31 PM
What instances can you think of?
In the over all EU, encompassing both old and new... excluding crossovers, I can only remember Evolution being the only case. I know there were more but I just can't really remember. The whole idea of controlling Xenomorphs has always been there though, either taming, genetic manipulation.. What have you, it's been there for years.
Didn't the Predators in Three World War use pheromones or something? Also, the artifact in AVP2: Primal Hunt was allegedly capable of controlling their minds. I was actually talking about mind controlling humans that was too corny.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 23, 2016, 10:22:50 PM
Didn't the Predators in Three World War use pheromones or something? Also, the artifact in AVP2: Primal Hunt was allegedly capable of controlling their minds.
Yup! I completely forgot about Three World War, as for Primal Hunt.. I never played that! So there is that too!
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 23, 2016, 10:22:50 PM
I was actually talking about mind controlling humans that was too corny.
Then shoulder we consider the K-Series Aliens from Extinction as Humans attempting to control Xenomorphs as well?
Idk, were they actually able to control them? I thought the K-Series just went rampant everywhere.
The Aliens in Aliens: Book 2 by Den Beauvais were controlled by General Spears.... Until he lost control.
Well...they weren't really controlled.
More like dedicated, I'd say. The illusion of serving a Queen.
Indeed. They (the Queen) was just playing along.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 24, 2016, 04:12:58 PM
Indeed. They (the Queen) was just playing along.
True.
Though through one means or another, the whole theme of the alien stories has mostly been about man tryin to figure out how to harness the aliens. "Mind control" is just one facet of a grand tapestry.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 24, 2016, 04:12:58 PMIndeed. They (the Queen) was just playing along.
I've always wondered why. To get to Earth? Did they know that was where Spears were headed? It didn't seem to make a whole lot of sense.
On the topic of mind controlling humans.
Hicks mentioned earlier that
Spoiler
the ones who were controlled were hinted to have been influenced beforehand. The scientist woman was kind of implied to have been a descendant of the Founders who stayed behind. Only specific people receive the "illuminate our way" message. If they could control humans easily, why not spread it across the entire Human Sphere of Influence? Why specific people?
So I disagree PredXeno, it wasn't corny for me. I feel that it was done quite well and shows the real threat posed by this faction even from great distances.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 25, 2016, 09:03:05 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 24, 2016, 04:12:58 PMIndeed. They (the Queen) was just playing along.
I've always wondered why. To get to Earth? Did they know that was where Spears were headed? It didn't seem to make a whole lot of sense.
I don't think it was to get to Earth. It was just that moment when she could turn the tables and get her own freedom, one way or the other.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Jan 25, 2016, 03:33:19 PM
On the topic of mind controlling humans.
Hicks mentioned earlier that Spoiler
the ones who were controlled were hinted to have been influenced beforehand. The scientist woman was kind of implied to have been a descendant of the Founders who stayed behind. Only specific people receive the "illuminate our way" message. If they could control humans easily, why not spread it across the entire Human Sphere of Influence? Why specific people?
So I disagree PredXeno, it wasn't corny for me. I feel that it was done quite well and shows the real threat posed by this faction even from great distances.
Well as you said, it was "implied" as opposed to outright stated so I didn't really take that into account, either way I don't really like the direction the Rage War is taking the series; the universe feels
very different from the one presented in previous EU and since previous EU include all sorts of comic book type stories, that's saying something..
Exactly. This one doesn't feel like a comic. It actually feels like a bigger sci-fi story. I'm immensely curious to see where Lebbon takes all this build up.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 25, 2016, 05:50:29 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 25, 2016, 09:03:05 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 24, 2016, 04:12:58 PMIndeed. They (the Queen) was just playing along.
I've always wondered why. To get to Earth? Did they know that was where Spears were headed? It didn't seem to make a whole lot of sense.
I don't think it was to get to Earth. It was just that moment when she could turn the tables and get her own freedom, one way or the other.
That's exactly it. She proved that she was conniving. What was definitely crazy was when the queen mother was "calling her children back to her" across the galaxy. It's as if the genius who wrote books 1 and 2 was replaced by someone someone else.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 25, 2016, 09:06:07 PM
Exactly. This one doesn't feel like a comic. It actually feels like a bigger sci-fi story. I'm immensely curious to see where Lebbon takes all this build up.
Same here. I'm really curious to see what it all builds to by the end of the trilogy.It would be neat if this time period gets revisited in the future, or if they almost do an anthology thing where we get novels set even further in the future. Imagine what the year 3000 might look like in this universe! I would love to see the Marine tech and weird alien technology in comics.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jan 26, 2016, 04:36:12 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 25, 2016, 09:06:07 PM
Exactly. This one doesn't feel like a comic. It actually feels like a bigger sci-fi story. I'm immensely curious to see where Lebbon takes all this build up.
Same here. I'm really curious to see what it all builds to by the end of the trilogy.It would be neat if this time period gets revisited in the future, or if they almost do an anthology thing where we get novels set even further in the future. Imagine what the year 3000 might look like in this universe! I would love to see the Marine tech and weird alien technology in comics.
I'd love that too.
Sometimes I wonder if there will be novels going even further. I was already surprised that Sea of Sorrows took place in 2497 (I loved the AvP snes game for being set in 2493 and was so glad to see that era explored in novel form.)
I remember another game called AvP Last of His Clan set in 2593, these games aren't really the best, but the ideas and settings behind them is what got me so curious, it's the era. I never would've guessed that Incursion was going to be 2692, I thought it was gonna be early 2500's lol.
I wonder if we'll see the 2700's, we're already nearly there as of Predator: Incursion, for all we know, Book 2 or 3 might even go there. If not, then maybe some future books might.
Speaking of the far future, Ultramorph, have you read a crossover comic titled Magnus Robot Fighter vs Predator? It starts in the year 3999 but the rest is set in 4001 AD. This comic got me so interested in the concept of setting this franchise in the very far future. It seems to be the farthest that a Predator has appeared in any official and crossover mediums that I know of.
Some reviews on Goodreads.
I'm glad to see the book has very positive reviews in general.
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25310556-predator---incursion
When can we expect a novel preview for Alien: Invasion?
Probably late next month or early April if the pattern from last time holds true. I know that I'll be trying avoiding spoilers if the E-book is released early like last time.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Feb 14, 2016, 01:40:58 AM
Probably late next month or early April if the pattern from last time holds true. I know that I'll be trying avoiding spoilers if the E-book is released early like last time.
I'm definitely gonna fail at that. XD
Thanks for the info, Ultramorph. Now this is exciting. The preview for the last book really got me hyped and made the wait for it easier.
Really hope Lebbon has picked up his game this time around. Predator Incuraion was tolerable but not great in my opinion
Quote from: happypred on Feb 14, 2016, 03:08:46 AM
Really hope Lebbon has picked up his game this time around. Predator Incuraion was tolerable but not great in my opinion
I think it will start to pick up in the second book. Book one was really build up and introductions. But now with that out of the way... let the war begin!
I really enjoyed Incursion but it was a hell of a lot of setup. Hopefully with that out the way, it'll pick up the pace and start to really move along.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 15, 2016, 08:52:52 AM
I really enjoyed Incursion but it was a hell of a lot of setup. Hopefully with that out the way, it'll pick up the pace and start to really move along.
Hope the Yautja get more of a chance to shine in books 2 and 3
Quote from: happypred on Feb 19, 2016, 09:34:07 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 15, 2016, 08:52:52 AM
I really enjoyed Incursion but it was a hell of a lot of setup. Hopefully with that out the way, it'll pick up the pace and start to really move along.
Hope the Yautja get more of a chance to shine in books 2 and 3
Once those two books are out, I plan on re-reading the whole trilogy one after the other like one huge book. In a way, that's what Rage War really is, one massive book split into three smaller ones. So Incursion was basically the very beginning of this humongous story.
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Feb 19, 2016, 06:58:04 PM
Quote from: happypred on Feb 19, 2016, 09:34:07 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 15, 2016, 08:52:52 AM
I really enjoyed Incursion but it was a hell of a lot of setup. Hopefully with that out the way, it'll pick up the pace and start to really move along.
Hope the Yautja get more of a chance to shine in books 2 and 3
Once those two books are out, I plan on re-reading the whole trilogy one after the other like one huge book. In a way, that's what Rage War really is, one massive book split into three smaller ones. So Incursion was basically the very beginning of this humongous story.
I still can't get through this book. :-( I fall asleep reading.
Seeing as how we haven't got long, what do you guys predict will happen in the next book?
Ten more weeks to go... teeeen more weeeeks... feels like forever. :(
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 19, 2016, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Feb 19, 2016, 06:58:04 PM
Quote from: happypred on Feb 19, 2016, 09:34:07 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 15, 2016, 08:52:52 AM
I really enjoyed Incursion but it was a hell of a lot of setup. Hopefully with that out the way, it'll pick up the pace and start to really move along.
Hope the Yautja get more of a chance to shine in books 2 and 3
Once those two books are out, I plan on re-reading the whole trilogy one after the other like one huge book. In a way, that's what Rage War really is, one massive book split into three smaller ones. So Incursion was basically the very beginning of this humongous story.
I still can't get through this book. :-( I fall asleep reading.
Johnny Mains and his crew are not very compelling characters...
Quote from: happypred on Feb 22, 2016, 02:12:43 AM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 19, 2016, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Feb 19, 2016, 06:58:04 PM
Quote from: happypred on Feb 19, 2016, 09:34:07 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 15, 2016, 08:52:52 AM
I really enjoyed Incursion but it was a hell of a lot of setup. Hopefully with that out the way, it'll pick up the pace and start to really move along.
Hope the Yautja get more of a chance to shine in books 2 and 3
Once those two books are out, I plan on re-reading the whole trilogy one after the other like one huge book. In a way, that's what Rage War really is, one massive book split into three smaller ones. So Incursion was basically the very beginning of this humongous story.
I still can't get through this book. :-( I fall asleep reading.
Johnny Mains and his crew are not very compelling characters...
I vaguely recall somebody name Cotronis because I keep misreading it as... clitoris. Facepalm.
LOL yeah...
I can't remember another member...oh yeah, Lieder. I think Mains and Lieder were f*ck buddies. That's about it
It was the world building that mainly drew me into Incursion. I loved it.
I forgot about Cotronis and Lieder.
I only remember Johnny Mains because he is kind of a main character in a way, being mentioned in the synopsis and all.
But I definitely remember my two favourite characters, Lilliya and Dr. Isa Palant.
They were easily the stars of the show.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 22, 2016, 02:06:59 PM
They were easily the stars of the show.
Please Tim, don't kill off Lilliya and Isa Palant! Don't turn into the next George R.R. Martin. XD
(He did warn us not to get attached to anyone for the sequels :laugh:)
I was sad that the historian character got killed of so quickly. It was cool seeing her trying to pin down Predator encounter throughout history.
Also, I'm shocked how quickly it's been since the first book came out in October. It'll be April before we know it.
I thought Palant was the historian too?
Nope, the historian was Svenlap.
Spoiler
She later dies so sabotaging Love Grove.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Feb 22, 2016, 02:53:11 PM
Nope, the historian was Svenlap. Spoiler
She later dies so sabotaging Love Grove.
Ah. My mistake. I keep mis-remembering stuff today. Should have got more sleep in last night.
I remember how Rage War was described, in how it will "change the universe forever", what do you think it means?
I know it's probably just being dramatic, but it makes sense. Look at all the tech that the Rage has developed over the centuries. After their defeat, this could all fall into humanity's hands. Even before this new bio-tech, they had FTL ships much better than any of ours which allowed them to leave the human sphere, and this FTL tech got improved by assimilated alien tech.
You think humans were very advanced by 2692? Think again once this is over. :P
I'd love for there to be novels further down the timeline, like in 2700's - 2900's, to show what we did with these new discoveries and what else we developed. One of my many favourite aspects of the Alien franchise is watching humanity grow as a race.
I hadn't thought of that! Humanity might had all kinds of new toys to play with after the Rage War. ;D
Then again, we're assuming that the Rage lose... We're so far in the future that I doubt Lebbon has a mandated 'happy, status quo' ending.
Too many characters...
Focus should've just been on Lilliya and Palant
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 22, 2016, 09:07:45 AM
It was the world building that mainly drew me into Incursion. I loved it.
Right. It was the Silmarillion of the AVP Galaxy... ;)
Quote from: happypred on Feb 22, 2016, 03:56:27 PM
Too many characters...
Focus should've just been on Lilliya and Palant
I don't think that's a bad thing. South China Sea had lots and lots of characters as well. One of them is mentioned as being this ultra badass ninja only to instantly get offed by the Predator.
Now that I think about it, South China Sea had a Predator pwn every unprepared human he came across... 600 years later, Colonial Marines pwn every unprepared Predator they come across.
Karma is a bitch. XD
Quote from: Ultramorph on Feb 22, 2016, 03:52:19 PM
I hadn't thought of that! Humanity might had all kinds of new toys to play with after the Rage War. ;D
Then again, we're assuming that the Rage lose... We're so far in the future that I doubt Lebbon has a mandated 'happy, status quo' ending.
That's true. Maybe the "change" happens because humans lose!
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Feb 22, 2016, 05:25:24 PM
Quote from: happypred on Feb 22, 2016, 03:56:27 PM
Too many characters...
Focus should've just been on Lilliya and Palant
I don't think that's a bad thing.
It is when the characters are bland
Quote from: happypred on Feb 23, 2016, 01:48:05 AM
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Feb 22, 2016, 05:25:24 PM
Quote from: happypred on Feb 22, 2016, 03:56:27 PM
Too many characters...
Focus should've just been on Lilliya and Palant
I don't think that's a bad thing.
It is when the characters are bland
I found them quite interesting.
The whole mention of other intelligent aliens invading us and the Predators as told in Tim Lebbon's interview still gives me hope that we'll see some new players in future books.
If they do get to that, I hope these new aliens are fleshed out. It doesn't have to be incredibly detailed, but it should be teasing like they are doing with Predators and Engineers, tidbits of info. But the very addition of new aliens intrigues me so much. I was happy to see the previous trilogy mention more races and to eventually learn that we almost got a new race before they became the human Founders tells me that Fox hopes to add some more.
Tim Lebbon tweeted an interview he did recently. I haven't had the chance to listen to it, but he did use the Alien and Predator hashtags, so there's a chance he talks about Rage War. Possible spoiler warning.
https://twitter.com/timlebbon/status/703877574636793856 (https://twitter.com/timlebbon/status/703877574636793856)
I listened to the first half of so on the way to work. Around 20 to 30 minute he talks very briefly about Alien and then The Rage Wars but nothing new yet.
He talked some more about his work on Aliens and Predator after the mid-way point too. All interesting but no new details dished. Worth a listen to though. I really enjoyed it.
https://twitter.com/timlebbon/status/705881477574213632
Boy I hope I wind up having 4/26 off from work! ;D Between probably watching Aliens and reading the new novel, it looks like quite a fun and busy day. Not to mention picking Defiance up digitally the next day...
Quote from: Ultramorph on Mar 05, 2016, 06:20:19 PM
Boy I hope I wind up having 4/26 off from work! ;D Between probably watching Aliens and reading the new novel, it looks like quite a fun and busy day. Not to mention picking Defiance up digitally the next day...
This is such a great decade to be a fan isn't it? ;D
Ah, brilliant! I'm looking forward to this one. I'm struggling my way through Female War at the minute but I think that's mostly down to me not liking to binge read series.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 05, 2016, 08:40:30 PM
Ah, brilliant! I'm looking forward to this one. I'm struggling my way through Female War at the minute but I think that's mostly down to me not liking to binge read series.
I know that feeling mate, I don't like to binge read either. I'm glad Rage War is kind of spaced out but the wait is still hard to get through. XD
Lebbon is on the home stretch of Book 3: ;D
https://twitter.com/timlebbon/status/706797074856222720 (https://twitter.com/timlebbon/status/706797074856222720)
I just saw that tweet.
Not long left to go for book 2! The closer it is, the harder the wait gets!
Book 3 Cover.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51h6X3fvhlL._SX301_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
I know it has no bearing on the quality of the actual novels but it really kinda bothers me how crappy the covers are.
tHE aLIEN IS SHOWING WAY TOO MUCH LEG FOR MY COMFORT.
And next time, I will make sure to look up from my keyboard so I don't end up typing with Caps Lock on again.
Quote from: 420Buddy on Mar 08, 2016, 01:05:35 AM
I know it has no bearing on the quality of the actual novels but it really kinda bothers me how crappy the covers are.
Me too, those AVPR covers dont give it justice.
Is that even Wolf? Helm looks a bit off
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F51h6X3fvhlL._SX301_BO1%2C204%2C203%2C200_.jpg&hash=2234b15439e0bd24378a3b1d96d31a74e6b5be7b)
They need some Dave Dorman art for the covers. I would love to see some of the new tech or The Rage elders in their alien tech suits.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Mar 08, 2016, 04:05:53 AM
They need some Dave Dorman art for the covers. I would love to see some of the new tech or The Rage elders in their alien tech suits.
Nah, We're talkin' about some Den Beauvais for the win here...
Quote from: happypred on Mar 08, 2016, 03:49:35 AM
Is that even Wolf? Helm looks a bit off
It is. They used the same image for the Horror Nights thing too.
As said Buddy said, I know it has no bearing on the quality of the novel but I sure wish they'd return to doing original covers for the books. What I'd give to see a Dorman cover again.
I even really like Youll's work on the DH Press novels. He used designs from the films, but at least he composed original images with them. Plus the digital style looked a bit more modern, whereas Dorman's and Bolton's covers - as awesome as they are - do look kinda dated and 90s.
True enough. Can't fault Youll's work in general.
How about having Swanland do some covers then? :P
Over on Amazon,
Alien: Invasion has been given an updated summary:
Spoiler
QuoteFor centuries Weyland-Yutani has tried to weaponize the aliens. Now someone has beaten them to it, sweeping through Yautja space and turning predator into prey.
Faced with the overwhelming forces of the Rage, Earth envoys forge an unprecedented alliance with the Predators. Yet even the combined might of two races may not be enough to stop the carnage, as an unstoppable swarm of Xenomorphs topples planet after planet, penetrating ever deeper into the Human Sphere.
Come on, 4/26!
Quote from: Ultramorph on Mar 08, 2016, 10:25:16 PM
Over on Amazon, Alien: Invasion has been given an updated summary:
Spoiler
QuoteFor centuries Weyland-Yutani has tried to weaponize the aliens. Now someone has beaten them to it, sweeping through Yautja space and turning predator into prey.
Faced with the overwhelming forces of the Rage, Earth envoys forge an unprecedented alliance with the Predators. Yet even the combined might of two races may not be enough to stop the carnage, as an unstoppable swarm of Xenomorphs topples planet after planet, penetrating ever deeper into the Human Sphere.
Come on, 4/26!
April hurry the f**k up and get here already!
I can only imagine the summary for Book 3 now.
From the sound of it, I think humans may eventually enact some sort of law on the Alien, a
nuke-from-orbit-to-be-sure law... I mean, if the damage is that bad, they may as well be a WMD and harnessing them would probably be made illegal if it isn't already.
I can see worlds being quarantined and any young or small hives instantly sterilized upon discovery to prevent future threats to mankind.
But some ambitious among us may see the potential after they see the damage caused by the Rage... and try to harness the same power.
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Mar 08, 2016, 10:56:56 PM
I can only imagine the summary for Book 3 now.
Currently it just says
QuoteThe third book in the Rage War series
:laugh:
It will definitely be interesting to see how that status quo is changed by the end of this trilogy. Like we talked about a few posts ago, the Rage's tech will most likely be something the victors fight over.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Mar 08, 2016, 11:05:18 PM
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Mar 08, 2016, 10:56:56 PM
I can only imagine the summary for Book 3 now.
Currently it just says QuoteThe third book in the Rage War series
:laugh:
It will definitely be interesting to see how that status quo is changed by the end of this trilogy. Like we talked about a few posts ago, the Rage's tech will most likely be something the victors fight over.
Indeed.
I can't wait to see how human and Predator society gets influenced by this.
Do you think more books will be advertised? Like how Rage War was in River of Pain.
Imagine you turn to the last page of Armageddon and see "Prometheus: New Millennium" or something, hinting at a setting in the next millenium. XD
I'm definitely hoping we get an ad for a new trilogy at the end of AvP: Armageddon. 2017 is the 30th anniversary of Predator, so it would make sense to continue with the franchises.
A Prometheus novel would be great, and I hope we get one some day. Maybe after Covenant comes out and the Engineers become a bit less restrictive. Super advanced, post-Rage War humans encountering the Engineers somewhere beyond the Human Sphere or something like that.
That being said, my big hope is still that the "big crossover" Randy talked about coming later this year is some sort of Rage War comic. Probably not, but one can hope.
The aliens haven't been bery convincingly weaponised IMO
...and given how shitty Yautja tech feels in comparison to Human Sphere tech, the alliance seems unnecessary
Quote from: Ultramorph on Mar 08, 2016, 11:40:29 PM
I'm definitely hoping we get an ad for a new trilogy at the end of AvP: Armageddon. 2017 is the 30th anniversary of Predator, so it would make sense to continue with the franchises.
A Prometheus novel would be great, and I hope we get one some day. Maybe after Covenant comes out and the Engineers become a bit less restrictive. Super advanced, post-Rage War humans encountering the Engineers somewhere beyond the Human Sphere or something like that.
That being said, my big hope is still that the "big crossover" Randy talked about coming later this year is some sort of Rage War comic. Probably not, but one can hope.
I just had a sort of realization.
Seeing as how Fire and Stone and now, Life and Death seem to be doing things.
What if a similar trend is happening with the novels?
We had an Alien Trilogy, and are now going through an AvP trilogy...
Then next will probably be a Predator trilogy and Prometheus trilogy followed by a giant 700 page conclusion novel. (Or instead of 700 pages, the Omega style novel can be another trilogy)
Maybe these could continue exploring the far future. Why else would Tim Lebbon be asked to set up a whole new world just for to be waved away after being built so much?
Quote from: happypred on Mar 09, 2016, 04:53:38 AM
The aliens haven't been bery convincingly weaponised IMO
...and given how shitty Yautja tech feels in comparison to Human Sphere tech, the alliance seems unnecessary
Come on man, you're comparing a Hunter's gear to a Space Marine's. Let's wait and see how their war gear pans out. Remember AvP: Extinction? Compare those Predator weapons to Anytime's. Speaking of which, Extinction had Nanovibronic discs and Incursion mentions Nanovibronic blades. Did anyone else notice that? Or am I just a Predanerd?
And the Aliens were convincingly weaponized, somehow the Rage did what Weyland-Yutani failed. They had all this time to experiment on Aliens while unhindered. Plus they may have even learned something from the Dog-Aliens while studying the ruins.
Humans have done it in the past, or tried to. I recall some Aliens were controlled through pheromones, just mimic the queen's essence and you control the hive.
And if it's psychological, well that's a piece of cake then, if you can brainwash people with radio waves and turn their neurons into nanobots through remote hypnotic suggestions, then you're a mastermind of that field and controlling Aliens should be super easy.
Tim seems to be almost done with Aliens vs Predator: Armageddon. I can't wait to read these books!
https://twitter.com/timlebbon/status/710454016065605632
AvP : Armageddon has been delivered.
https://twitter.com/timlebbon/status/712666702643904513 (https://twitter.com/timlebbon/status/712666702643904513)
Fantastic news! I really can't wait to see what's in store in the next instalment!
I always get so excited every time this thread gets an update. XD
Over on Amazon, Aliens vs Predator: Armageddon has been pulled forward from October to a September 27, 2016 release date.
http://www.amazon.com/Alien-vs-Predator-Armageddon-Rage/dp/1783296194/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1459272992&sr=8-1&keywords=alien+predator+armageddon (http://www.amazon.com/Alien-vs-Predator-Armageddon-Rage/dp/1783296194/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1459272992&sr=8-1&keywords=alien+predator+armageddon)
This pleases me. ;D I'm looking forward to Part 2 soon!
It occurs to me that Titan now has a Comic book division. I wonder if in the future we might see Alien comics published by Titan.
http://titan-comics.com/
They are definitely going by the licensing route, just like Dark Horse.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Mar 29, 2016, 05:38:17 PM
Over on Amazon, Aliens vs Predator: Armageddon has been pulled forward from October to a September 27, 2016 release date.
http://www.amazon.com/Alien-vs-Predator-Armageddon-Rage/dp/1783296194/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1459272992&sr=8-1&keywords=alien+predator+armageddon (http://www.amazon.com/Alien-vs-Predator-Armageddon-Rage/dp/1783296194/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1459272992&sr=8-1&keywords=alien+predator+armageddon)
Wasn't it already September? The back of my Predator: Incursion book says September but not an exact date. I checked Amazon recently and saw September 27th. I never knew it was on October at one point.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Mar 29, 2016, 06:15:20 PM
It occurs to me that Titan now has a Comic book division. I wonder if in the future we might see Alien comics published by Titan.
http://titan-comics.com/
They are definitely going by the licensing route, just like Dark Horse.
I have my fingers crossed that's what Dave Dorman's secret project is.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Mar 29, 2016, 06:15:20 PMIt occurs to me that Titan now has a Comic book division. I wonder if in the future we might see Alien comics published by Titan.
Unlikely, that's Dark Horse's property. Why would they share? Especially when they're just ramping up their
Aliens comics output again.
Although Titan did republish
Alien: The Illustrated Story a few years back.
I wonder where they overlap. Perhaps they could adapt their own novels?
There does seem to be a distinction with the Aliens and Alien imprints. Perhaps that is where the line may be dawn in the sand? In which case, we could see some Alien comics from Titan, and Aliens from DH? But then how does that explain defiance from DH which really borrows a lot from Alien. Also, DH did publish the Alien Isolation comic. But we do see that licenses like Star Wars have moved around a few times. It is possible. Fox makes that decision, not DH, or Titan really. We'll see...
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Mar 29, 2016, 07:56:47 PMThere does seem to be a distinction with the Aliens and Alien imprints.
Not really. Titan could republish
Alien: The Illustrated Story because Dark Horse never had the rights to it. It was done by Heavy Metal before Dark Horse even existed. All the other comics are Dark Horse.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 29, 2016, 08:04:12 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Mar 29, 2016, 07:56:47 PMThere does seem to be a distinction with the Aliens and Alien imprints.
Not really. Titan could republish Alien: The Illustrated Story because Dark Horse never had the rights to it. It was done by Heavy Metal before Dark Horse even existed. All the other comics are Dark Horse.
That may be true, but then how do you account for the "Alien" novels that were published by Titan as opposed to "Aliens" novels? This is all guess work on our part, but I speculate that there may be some sort of movement afoot to treat Alien and Aliens as 2 related properties that are licensed as separate entities. Just a hunch. I may be wrong in this but time will tell..
Alien vs Predator: Armageddon is also called "Aliens vs Predator: Armageddon" at the back of my Incursion book, the last few pages that advertise the sequels.
Which makes me confused, is it Alien or Aliens vs Predator for the third Rage War book?
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Mar 29, 2016, 08:30:58 PMThat may be true, but then how do you account for the "Alien" novels that were published by Titan as opposed to "Aliens" novels?
I get the impression Fox wants to get it back to
Alien as that's what the franchise is actually called. But the comics have always been
Aliens so they're staying as they are.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 30, 2016, 07:39:26 AM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Mar 29, 2016, 08:30:58 PMThat may be true, but then how do you account for the "Alien" novels that were published by Titan as opposed to "Aliens" novels?
I get the impression Fox wants to get it back to Alien as that's what the franchise is actually called. But the comics have always been Aliens so they're staying as they are.
It's not just the comics. There's been a tonne of material published or produced under the Aliens imprint. It has been defacto the ALIENS franchise for the best part of 3 decades now. Let's call a spade a spade here. It is now being called the Alien franchise again because Ridley Scott has come back and since making Prometheus he's making another "ALIEN" film. It's all just marketing and returning the focus to Ridley Scott's seminal work.
Personally, I think the graphics of the ALIENS franchise are superior. They've infiltrated our collective pop-culture consciousness much deeper, but I do understand the logic of what is going on. I am curious if Blomkamp's film will turn the tables back to the ALIENS camp..
Anyone else super excited for Alien: Invasion?
Me. Definitely looking forward to seeing where Tim takes this.
I'm sure Ultramorph is just as excited as we are. ;D
I'm hoping we get a preview like with the last book.
Do previews usually come out when the book is out? Because the last book was meant to come out in September but got delayed to October, but we got a preview instead on September.
But now it's April, fortunately there were no delays or this excitement would kill me from such an already long wait. XD
Feel free to check out TIm Lebbon's website, fellow novel fans.
You can have a look at his Rage War or Out of the Shadows novels and leave comments. So if you've got questions, don't hesitate to ask him.
http://www.timlebbon.net/
Seems Invasion will be getting the audiobook treatment (http://www.audible.co.uk/pd/Sci-Fi-Fantasy/Alien-Invasion-Audiobook/B01CPZJ3PA/ref=a_search_c4_1_5_srTtl?qid=1460024195&sr=1-5). Strange that they're doing book two but not the first.
Looks like they're doing the others too! http://www.audible.co.uk/pd/Sci-Fi-Fantasy/Predator-Incursion-Audiobook/B01DMNXIUK/ref=a_pd_Sci-Fi_c4_1_1_i/277-2607271-9651305?ie=UTF8&pf_rd_r=1AGAG226ZBD1GYQ70QX2&pf_rd_m=A2YHV2RYTDNFG3&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=detail-page&pf_rd_p=518531747&pf_rd_s=center-4
Shame it's not a full cast thing.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 07, 2016, 10:24:37 AM
Looks like they're doing the others too! http://www.audible.co.uk/pd/Sci-Fi-Fantasy/Predator-Incursion-Audiobook/B01DMNXIUK/ref=a_pd_Sci-Fi_c4_1_1_i/277-2607271-9651305?ie=UTF8&pf_rd_r=1AGAG226ZBD1GYQ70QX2&pf_rd_m=A2YHV2RYTDNFG3&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=detail-page&pf_rd_p=518531747&pf_rd_s=center-4
Shame it's not a full cast thing.
So it's just a voice reading the book? I hoped it'd be what Out of the Shadows is getting.
Still though, hope this gets more people interested in the Rage War.
Hopefully if Out of the Shadows does well, they might invest in some more like that.
I hope so. I gotta be honest, I have almost zero interest in audiobooks, but I'm almost certainly going to pick up Out of the Shadows just because of the full cast audio drama style they've gone for.
I pre-ordered that one as soon as it was announced! I love audio dramas. I used to get the Stargate ones religiously.
I'm just a tad disappointed they aren't releasing it in some physical format. But I guess that's probably down to length.
And the current trend of everything being digital. Makes me sad. I'd rather have the CD in my hands.
Would be nice to have an actual cast list to look at too.
Yeah, I wish they'd make a CD, why does everything need to be digital these days? I'm not into audio books, but this audio drama tease was amazing to listen too.
Easier to distribute, I guess. And theoretically cheaper in the longer run for both consumer and provider. That said I have seen a company (can't remember which) charge extra for digital release and call it a convenience fee!
I just pre-ordered Alien: Invasion on Sunday and shall be getting it on the 29th at my local book shop.
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Apr 10, 2016, 11:04:57 PM
I just pre-ordered Alien: Invasion on Sunday and shall be getting it on the 29th at my local book shop.
I might have to wait for a few reviews before I get this one
iTunes has a preview of
Alien: Invasion available. You need iTunes or an iPhone to view it. I just looked through the table of contents, and there are
fairly significant spoilers, so be wary if you want to go in with nothing spoiled.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/alien-invasion/id1073481926?mt=11 (https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/alien-invasion/id1073481926?mt=11)
Spoiler
Looks like Johnny Mains lives after all. Also seems one Jiango Tann will be a new main character.
EDIT
Just finished it and
Spoiler
it's a nice action sequence that ends with Mains and Lieder getting rescued. Hicks, you get name-dropped again!
Can't wait until the 26th.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Apr 13, 2016, 04:19:30 PM
iTunes has a preview of Alien: Invasion available. You need iTunes or an iPhone to view it. I just looked through the table of contents, and there are fairly significant spoilers, so be wary if you want to go in with nothing spoiled.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/alien-invasion/id1073481926?mt=11 (https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/alien-invasion/id1073481926?mt=11)
Spoiler
Looks like Johnny Mains lives after all. Also seems one Jiango Tann will be a new main character.
EDIT
Just finished it and Spoiler
it's a nice action sequence that ends with Mains and Lieder getting rescued. Hicks, you get name-dropped again!
Can't wait until the 26th.
I haven't got an I-phone. :(
But from what you've shared, that sounds really interesting.
Spoiler
I really liked Mains, so it's great that he's rescued. Does it say how he gets freed?
I really hope Amazon releases a free sample like they did for the last book.
Spoiler
He and Lieder get rescued by another Excursionist team, the HellSparks. There's also a small few page thing with an old guy blasting off into space on a one-way voyage, not sure if he's a Rage operative or what.
There was also something going on with the synthetic Patton before he got killed by debris. He was trying to dig something out of his chest.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Apr 13, 2016, 05:19:25 PM
Spoiler
He and Lieder get rescued by another Excursionist team, the HellSparks. There's also a small few page thing with an old guy blasting off into space on a one-way voyage, not sure if he's a Rage operative or what.
OMG!
I can't freakin' wait!
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Apr 13, 2016, 05:12:29 PM
Quote from: Ultramorph on Apr 13, 2016, 04:19:30 PM
iTunes has a preview of Alien: Invasion available. You need iTunes or an iPhone to view it. I just looked through the table of contents, and there are fairly significant spoilers, so be wary if you want to go in with nothing spoiled.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/alien-invasion/id1073481926?mt=11 (https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/alien-invasion/id1073481926?mt=11)
Spoiler
Looks like Johnny Mains lives after all. Also seems one Jiango Tann will be a new main character.
EDIT
Just finished it and Spoiler
it's a nice action sequence that ends with Mains and Lieder getting rescued. Hicks, you get name-dropped again!
Can't wait until the 26th.
I haven't got an I-phone. :(
But from what you've shared, that sounds really interesting.
Spoiler
I really liked Mains, so it's great that he's rescued. Does it say how he gets freed?
I really hope Amazon releases a free sample like they did for the last book.
Can't you get i-tunes even if you don't have an i-phone? You're on a computer, therefore you should be able to get i-tunes and set up an account. Happy reading.
Tried checking it on my friend's phone, but item is not available on the UK store. So when we try to switch to US store, it just goes to home page and item doesn't come up in search.
Anyone doing a re-read before book 2? We should properly de-construct it chapter by chapter.
I was reading some favourite chapters of mine.
I plan on doing a re-read when all three books are out. I'll binge read them back to back.
What about you? And yes, we should definitely deconstruct it chapter by chapter. It'd be fun.
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Apr 14, 2016, 06:41:38 PM
I was reading some favourite chapters of mine.
I plan on doing a re-read when all three books are out. I'll binge read them back to back.
What about you? And yes, we should definitely deconstruct it chapter by chapter. It'd be fun.
I was thinking about that too, before the book overbored me. Anyway, a good way to do it would be in book-club format. So essentially you read a chapter (or another preset length) per week and then discuss it as a group. We could set up separate threads for that and discuss every Wednesday or something..
I can't believe there's only a week left. Anyone getting this on the 26th? I gotta wait until the 29th... a fair price to pay seeing as I got Incursion a week before it came out.
I never even got Incursion :laugh:
To be honest, at this point I'll probably just wait for the third book and get them all at the same time. I've got too many books to read as it is.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 19, 2016, 03:53:08 PM
I never even got Incursion :laugh:
To be honest, at this point I'll probably just wait for the third book and get them all at the same time. I've got too many books to read as it is.
My mate's doing that as well. It's probably a good idea unless you want to stare at a mountain of unread books that have piled up. ;D
Happy reading, Mistah Fuk.
I've got two chapters to go on incursion. It actually picked up quite a bit towards the end, with some pretty good action and build-up payoff. Looks like I'll be ready just in time for the Alien story.
I do wish the character development was a bit deeper here and there. The characters blend into each other and are difficult to remember which is which. They just need to have some specific details and traits that make them distinguishable.
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Apr 19, 2016, 07:11:02 PMHappy reading, Mistah Fuk.
;D I'm sure I'll enjoy them when I get round to them.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Apr 19, 2016, 07:20:25 PM
I've got two chapters to go on incursion. It actually picked up quite a bit towards the end, with some pretty good action and build-up payoff. Looks like I'll be ready just in time for the Alien story.
I do wish the character development was a bit deeper here and there. The characters blend into each other and are difficult to remember which is which. They just need to have some specific details and traits that make them distinguishable.
I'm glad you gave this another shot.
To be honest, I have this habit with some books as well. I start them, the story feels like it's going for a slow ride and I get bored. But then I give it a shot months later and find myself unable to stop.
I see what you mean about characters blending in too much so it's hard to tell. I haven't had that problem, but I did miss out on the dates. The book sometimes jumps back and forth like it will be on September and then go back to August and then September again. I tended to not notice until this reviewer pointed it out and I was like "oh, it actually does that!" :laugh:
I'll be paying attention to the dates this time round.
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Apr 19, 2016, 08:24:24 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Apr 19, 2016, 07:20:25 PM
I've got two chapters to go on incursion. It actually picked up quite a bit towards the end, with some pretty good action and build-up payoff. Looks like I'll be ready just in time for the Alien story.
I do wish the character development was a bit deeper here and there. The characters blend into each other and are difficult to remember which is which. They just need to have some specific details and traits that make them distinguishable.
I'm glad you gave this another shot.
To be honest, I have this habit with some books as well. I start them, the story feels like it's going for a slow ride and I get bored. But then I give it a shot months later and find myself unable to stop.
I see what you mean about characters blending in too much so it's hard to tell. I haven't had that problem, but I did miss out on the dates. The book sometimes jumps back and forth like it will be on September and then go back to August and then September again. I tended to not notice until this reviewer pointed it out and I was like "oh, it actually does that!" :laugh:
I'll be paying attention to the dates this time round.
I'm envisioning this book as a comic book or as an audio drama and I can't help thinking it would be pretty good. It's because I am curious about the overall arc of the Prometheus / Alien storyline that I kept reading this. It may be that since I am a comic book guy, I like an extra visual to go along with a book. And I'm not talking about an illustrated story, but I liked the map at the beginning of Lord of the Rings. I like the maps of Arrakis in the Dune books, I liked the blueprint in Orson Scott Card's "The Abyss" novelization, and I enjoyed the maps of Mars in Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars series. I wish there was some sort of visual material that came with Incursion. It could be a simplified star map, or something, but it would be great to have something that grounds the reader in that world. The overall premise is not so bad. I'm fairly happy with how the book picked up towards the end.
I agree, I would really love to see some visuals like a star map. Even the cover, if it reflected a scene from the book, even just showing the Marine's 27th century futuristic space ship going towards the Predator habitat. It'd be good to see. Or just a group of the marines in their futuristic nanosuit style armour.
Heck, just a trophy wall would do. :laugh:
I like that the book leaves a lot to us to imagine. But I would like to see, like you, how it's "meant" to look.
That's why I think it would adapt into a comic book really well. Or a TV series for that matter.
Same here, I'd love to read this as a comic.
Over on Titan's website they have a short interview with Lebbon. He doesn't reveal anything, but it's a good read.
http://titanbooks.com/blog/celebrate-alien-day/ (http://titanbooks.com/blog/celebrate-alien-day/)
Finally the week has started.... tomorrow couldn't get here any quicker!!!
Quote from: Ultramorph on Apr 21, 2016, 04:18:11 PM
Over on Titan's website they have a short interview with Lebbon. He doesn't reveal anything, but it's a good read.
http://titanbooks.com/blog/celebrate-alien-day/ (http://titanbooks.com/blog/celebrate-alien-day/)
So
Spoiler
all three books may be set in 2692 according to Tim, if I read one of his responses correctly
?
I just finally finished reading Incursion a few days ago. While I can only recall maybe 2 or 3 characters, from the book, I think it did pick up quite a bit towards the end. The characters are not memorable, but I've said that before. It's the integration of the Predators into the human reality that I found interesting. I could almost live with an AVP reality like this if it were set in the far future. The world-building was quite good, and perhaps because of this, character development suffered, but this could be rectified in the next book. Then again, most of the characters from the first book didn't survive so we shall see. Bottom line, it would make a great comic-book, and also a great premise for a TV show along the lines of a dark Star Trek. But it is such a visual story telling that without actual visuals, it falls a little flat. This story is not beyond salvage. Take it to a more visual medium and it could all change.
2.8 / 5 stars
Hoping my review copy arrives today and I can get dug in.
Here's a new podcast with Tim Lebbon - I've not listened to it yet so don't know what he talks about.
https://thegeekspeakshow.com/2016/04/24/7-24-alien-day-426-a-few-days-early/
QuoteThe Geek Speak Show kicks off the #AlienDay426 celebration with an Alien-themed episode! First, Henry, Helen, and Brenden give out the details on how you can watch Captain America: Civil War on Free Comic Book Day at the Free Comic Book Day Thank You screening for Geek Speak listeners. Then, Famous Monsters of Filmland Magazine's Executive Editor, David Weiner, calls in to start the Alien Day episode. That's followed by a chat with writer Tim Lebbon, who's new book, Rage War Book 2: Alien Invasion, will be released on Alien Day 426.
Hopefully my copy comes tomorrow for Aliens Day! I can't believe is been six months already since the first book.
Also, not really related, but I've been reading the 90s Guardians of the Galaxy, and in the first issue they land on a planet of humanoid canines, AND Starhawk is said to be an Arcturian. It's like the Titan books 20 years early! ;D
Quote from: Ultramorph on Apr 25, 2016, 04:40:22 PM
Hopefully my copy comes tomorrow for Aliens Day! I can't believe is been six months already since the first book.
I got a notification from Amazon.com that my copy shipped today, it should show up tomorrow.
Got my shipping confirmation, too! ;D
Google Books has a preview for those of us who don't have ITunes.
Possible spoilers obviously. Enjoy.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Xpv3CwAAQBAJ&pg=PT81&lpg=PT81&dq=The+Zeere-Za&source=bl&ots=zz0Bq6IhBB&sig=Pj-IhJjUzUkGlSKWK_tximIzJTw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi4kLOd5qrMAhWGrxoKHdJIA_8Q6AEIKTAC#v=onepage&q=The%20Zeere-Za&f=false
No sign of my copy yesterday. Hoping one turns up today. If not I'll get one ordered on Amazon.
Got mine just now! Can't wait to dive in.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Apr 26, 2016, 02:24:10 PM
Got mine just now! Can't wait to dive in.
Feel free to share some interesting stuff! I gotta wait until Friday. :laugh:
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Apr 26, 2016, 02:25:44 PM
Feel free to share some interesting stuff! I gotta wait until Friday. :laugh:
I'll think I'll wait to see your take on the Predator segments if there are any in this novel.
38 pages in...
Spoiler
A crew that just finished a drop-hole is getting attacked by one of the Fiennes ships.
51 pages in an we may have gotten a small bombshell...
Spoiler
QuoteShe had conducted a series of features on the Arcturus settlers, before they renounced humanity entirely.
Either Arturians aren't aliens OR there are humans who settled with them and assimilated. I hope this gets addressed.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Apr 26, 2016, 06:40:50 PM
38 pages in...Spoiler
A crew that just finished a drop-hole is getting attacked by one of the Fiennes ships.
51 pages in an we may have gotten a small bombshell...Spoiler
QuoteShe had conducted a series of features on the Arcturus settlers, before they renounced humanity entirely.
Either Arturians aren't aliens OR there are humans who settled with them and assimilated. I hope this gets addressed.
WOW!!!!
Sea of Sorrows does explicitly say that
Spoiler
Arcturians were the first alien race met by humans. So those "settlers" may be humans who assimilated.
I mean COME ON! Arcturian Poontang will make anyone renounce their humanity!
I got a text from my book shop that my book has arrived! Picking it up tomorrow, can't wait!
92 pages in...
Spoiler
and we've met the Rage's xenomorph queen. They feed humans from the Fiennes ship to her. Also, the slug-creature has been given a name: the Faze.
I defintely think that reference was to humans who have decided to live with the Arcturians.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Apr 28, 2016, 04:43:21 PM
92 pages in...Spoiler
and we've met the Rage's xenomorph queen. They feed humans from the Fiennes ship to her. Also, the slug-creature has been given a name: the Faze.
I defintely think that reference was to humans who have decided to live with the Arcturians.
Really fascinating stuff! Friday can't get here any quicker!
I was just about to order this but Amazon has it listed as released on June 1st. :-\
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 28, 2016, 05:25:20 PM
I was just about to order this but Amazon has it listed as released on June 1st. :-\
Do you have a local Waterstones shop nearby? I order my books from Waterstones and then go to the store when they text me it has arrived.
We've just met two new main characters...
Spoiler
Jiango and Yvette Tann, who are interested in the xenos as a potentially intelligent species, like dolphins. They had a son in the Marines who was killed trying to obtain xenos for W-Y. They live on a private station called Hell, frequented by pirates and people looking get away from the Company.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 28, 2016, 05:25:20 PM
I was just about to order this but Amazon has it listed as released on June 1st. :-\
Tim's website said it was due 26th April but changed it to 29th April.
http://www.timlebbon.net/library/alien-invasion-2/
just order from amazon UK. I got my copy delivered on the 22nd. Just not had time to read it all yet.
121 pages in, and we've learned that Predators
Spoiler
don't need to go into suspension when going through drop-holes, which would destroy a human mind.
Palant and McIlveen also learned that Predator language consist of several languages as different as French and English, and that Predators who have hunted on Earth has adopted some Earth-like language structures.
We also got a brief mention of how many times WY had tried controlling the xenos by means as divers as mechanical and physic control. There was an odd reference to them attempting to genetically alter xenos, but it was a disaster. Reference to Resurrection, maybe?
I just got the book today and am already 42 pages in.
Man, I loved the Rage in the first book... I freaking love them even MORE now.
I've liked the battle scenes so far. The Rage is making good use of the xenos. Have you gotten to the part where
Spoiler
the xenos go EEV with breathing apparati?
A reference on page 155 confirms that
Spoiler
Arcturians ARE aliens. I want to know about that colony of humans living with them!
Popped into Waterstones whilst a convention in the city to pick this up. :) My ship is mentioned in the first chapter. :P heading home shortly so will read some more later.
230 pages in. Wow, this is a quick read! I'm really enjoying it, though. Some big stuff is being set up. Book 3 is going to be crazy.
I'm on the part where
Spoiler
Just after Akoko Halley got knocked out after a crazy battle scene.
Man, all you people who had concerns about Predators being nerfed in the first book, or the story being slow to get into have absolutely nothing to fear in the second book. :)
Also, the first book set up humans to be super advanced. But I am re-thinking that... man, the Rage are crazy! And the Yautja actually stood fairly well during one badass moment during a badass fight scene. I am absolutely freaking loving the space battles as well as ground battles!
Quote from: Ultramorph on Apr 26, 2016, 06:40:50 PM
51 pages in an we may have gotten a small bombshell...Spoiler
QuoteShe had conducted a series of features on the Arcturus settlers, before they renounced humanity entirely.
Either Arturians aren't aliens OR there are humans who settled with them and assimilated. I hope this gets addressed.
I took that to mean that
Spoiler
the Acturians had enough of mankind and severed ties.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on May 01, 2016, 10:26:19 AM
I took that to mean that
Spoiler
the Acturians had enough of mankind and severed ties.
Ah, I hadn't thought of that. Seems probable.
Just about done with the book now.
Spoiler
Palant, Halley, and company just set down on a Predator research station to try and figure out how the Rage androids control the xenos. Cool stuff!
Just finished! Is it September yet? ;D
I liked it quite a bit, probably more than
Incursion. I'll post full thoughts in a day or two.
I am very nearly finished.
I loved how:
Spoiler
The Yautja admitted that they were protecting Pallant on orders of Elder Kalakta. And how two ships just shadowed the Pixie while it was cruising through space. Airing all messages sent to them. XD
Until they see a Fiennes ship and send only one: "enemy ship sighted ahead, vengeance is ours!"
My favourite parts where when Lilliya was arguing with Hashori to hide for once in her life. Also when they finally were able to get the humans to stand down, and the whole amazement the public showed when Hashori walked alongside Lilliya and the guards. A whole crowd of people followed and no one was able to keep eye contact with Hashori due to crapping themselves every time she stared back.
I love how scared humans are of Predators, almost instinctually.
And I too am liking it more than Incursion,
it is the best sci fi experience of my life.
The Predators and their alliance with the humans was handled very well in this book, and I also liked how Lebbon handled the xenos.
Based on some of what was being set up in his volume, I think that
Spoiler
Book 3 will end with the drop-holes being shut down and humans being split into warring factions, each with their own weaponized xenos. That would be quite a new status quo.
Quote from: Ultramorph on May 01, 2016, 05:31:26 PM
The Predators and their alliance with the humans was handled very well in this book, and I also liked how Lebbon handled the xenos.
Based on some of what was being set up in his volume, I think that Spoiler
Book 3 will end with the drop-holes being shut down and humans being split into warring factions, each with their own weaponized xenos. That would be quite a new status quo.
I love how this book really explores how FTL works. The previous book did this but this one expands on it.
Spoiler
I love how the Arrow class ships go at Warp-15 while the Rage ships are warp-30, so fast that they leave a huge warp wave before even arriving.
Also, I have a feeling some of this tech is going to fall into human hands. It is implied that Lilliya's secrets may fall into Company hands. And the Company does intend to release they instant communication across light years invention eventually.
Man, I hope they release more books set after the Rage War. I want to see how this affects mankind.
I just finished this amazing book. I can't wait until September.
Re: FTL -
Spoiler
I've seen them use warp factors, hyperspace and the dropzones. I can't remember from Incursion but are warp and hyperspace related?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on May 02, 2016, 10:02:32 AM
Re: FTL -
Spoiler
I've seen them use warp factors, hyperspace and the dropzones. I can't remember from Incursion but are warp and hyperspace related?
They may be different.
How far are you into it, Corporal? Liliya and Isa Palant are still my faves! I am loving the Predators as always. Lebbon has expanded so much on his world in this book.
Only a 100 or so pages. I've not done any reading today.
We also learn some fun history lessons in-universe.
Such as a
Spoiler
Martian uprising in the 2090's (a few years after Prometheus) where General Jones helps crush the rebels and secure not only the hostages, but the Martian Cubes which are the very first alien artefacts found by mankind.
I picked these both up from Audible. Gonna finish Out of Shadows before I start them. So far not super loving OOS unfortunately.
Yautja sill limited to blades and shoulder cannons?
Quote from: happypred on May 02, 2016, 02:46:51 PM
Yautja sill limited to blades and shoulder cannons?
Their space ships are quite formidable.
I take that to mean their infantry still sucks...
Their space ships got raped in Book 1.
I guess that's a small improvement
We don't see their infantry that much in this book, but they handle themselves well when we do.
Quote from: happypred on May 02, 2016, 04:09:31 PM
I take that to mean their infantry still sucks...
Their space ships got raped in Book 1.
I guess that's a small improvement
Marine ships get raped by the Rage here... and then when the Predators show up, even the Rage get a taste of true power.
Like I said before, the Marines were destroying hunter jeeps in space, not tanks. :)
I really hope that Lebbon keeps writing books set in this far future. I would love for him to write a Prometheus/Alien novel. Something self-contained maybe, like WY finding a Juggernaut and trying to exploit it.
Quote from: Ultramorph on May 02, 2016, 05:23:28 PM
I really hope that Lebbon keeps writing books set in this far future. I would love for him to write a Prometheus/Alien novel. Something self-contained maybe, like WY finding a Juggernaut and trying to exploit it.
Yeah. I wouldn't mind if he set it another 100 years in the future, or more (depending how devastating Armageddon will be), to the point where humans have mostly recovered and the Rage War is something taught in history class.
Then we can explore how much humans know about the Engineers. They're probably just as mysterious, if more so, than the Yautja.
I wanna see the Arcturians, they've been mentioned in Aliens, Role Playing Adventure (kind of), Sea of Sorrows, River of Pain, Alien: Invasion. And a human police force on Arcturus was mentioned in one of the older Alien books and now Invasion solidifies that there are human settlers coexisting with the Arcturians in yet another one line reference.
It's about time they show up! Give us some Arcturians damn it! I wanna see them explored.
Sorry BeowolfSchaefer, while I liked OOS, if you didn't then you'll probably not like The Rage War. TRW definitely isn't my cup of tea; it has laser guns, plasma weapons, and nano-tech launchers, stuff not even A:R had. To me at least, it reads more like a comic book than a legitimate novel. Also:
Spoiler
I wish they kept the original idea of having other aliens control the Xenomorphs to attack both Predators and humans; having humans control Aliens just seems unnatural in the face of all the other stories regardless of fans' opinions of canon on them.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: predxeno on May 02, 2016, 08:20:01 PM
Sorry BeowolfSchaefer, while I liked OOS, if you didn't then you'll probably not like The Rage War. TRW definitely isn't my cup of tea; it has laser guns, plasma weapons, and nano-tech launchers, stuff not even A:R had. To me at least, it reads more like a comic book than a legitimate novel. Also:
Spoiler
I wish they kept the original idea of having other aliens control the Xenomorphs to attack both Predators and humans; having humans control Aliens just seems unnatural in the face of all the other stories regardless of fans' opinions of canon on them.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah, I liked that original idea too. Hopefully something like that is explored in the future though.
I hope book 2 focuses on fewer characters. That was a problem...IMO...of book 1
Quote from: predxeno on May 02, 2016, 08:20:01 PM
TRW definitely isn't my cup of tea; it has laser guns, plasma weapons, and nano-tech launchers, stuff not even A:R had. To me at least, it reads more like a comic book than a legitimate novel.
That's the wrong description. It's more like a different genre of science-fiction than we're used to with Alien and Predator. It's more like hard military sci-fi.
Quote
Spoiler
I wish they kept the original idea of having other aliens control the Xenomorphs to attack both Predators and humans; having humans control Aliens just seems unnatural in the face of all the other stories regardless of fans' opinions of canon on them.
I am slightly with you on that. One of the things that drew me to the EU in the first place is the exploration of new alien series and etc. I'm hoping we get to see some more of the dog-aliens or their masters. Whilst I would have loved to have seen another new alien species with a fleshed out background, I absolutely
love the Rage so I'm not that fussed about the change.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Apr 29, 2016, 11:04:18 PM
I've liked the battle scenes so far. The Rage is making good use of the xenos. Have you gotten to the part where Spoiler
the xenos go EEV with breathing apparati?
I thought that one was a little strange. People tend to perceive the Aliens as being able to operate fine in space so I'll be curious to see Tim's thoughts behind that one.
I'm just about 150 pages in now. Recently met the Alien experts. I really hope they stick around.
Quote from: happypred on May 03, 2016, 01:50:22 AM
I hope book 2 focuses on fewer characters. That was a problem...IMO...of book 1
Agreed. The first 100 pages or so has a few random character chapters but it seems to have settled now.
Don't know if you guys posted this or not but I just realised there's audiobook versions for Predator Incursion and Alien Invasion on Amazon too. I guess these will be on my to do list too.
Quote from: Ultramorph on May 01, 2016, 05:31:26 PM
The Predators and their alliance with the humans was handled very well in this book, and I also liked how Lebbon handled the xenos.
Based on some of what was being set up in his volume, I think that Spoiler
Book 3 will end with the drop-holes being shut down and humans being split into warring factions, each with their own weaponized xenos. That would be quite a new status quo.
I like where you are going with this but I always like to place my bets on a certain figure who/which has sat out most of the action so far.
What you say and this figure will feature(my guess) in 3 a lot more.
I am wondering when can we expect a synopsis for Book 3? Maybe June or July. My only complaint about these books is the long wait between them! :P
Quoteit has laser guns, plasma weapons, and nano-tech launchers, stuff not even A:R had
They had laser guns in Alien and this is set over 300 years after Resurrection and the marines in it have the top of the line gear.
Just finished Chapter 18. I wasn't expecting that. Took me by surprise.
Quote from: SM on May 08, 2016, 07:55:24 AM
Quoteit has laser guns, plasma weapons, and nano-tech launchers, stuff not even A:R had
They had laser guns in Alien and this is set over 300 years after Resurrection and the marines in it have the top of the line gear.
And by all accounts the Auriga was taken out of mothballs and it was all done on the down-low.
Looking forward to hearing your review and any possible interviews with Tim, Hicks.
What took you by surprise? :P
Spoiler
McIlveen getting shanked like that.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on May 08, 2016, 12:54:12 PM
Spoiler
McIlveen getting shanked like that.
I wasn't expecting that either.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on May 08, 2016, 12:54:12 PM
Spoiler
McIlveen getting shanked like that.
To be perfectly honest, I kinda saw that coming. :P It was a badass moment and I literally cheered inwardly when it happened. Lebbon foreshadowed it throughout the book several times.
The biggest hints were that
Spoiler
he was obviously a company man, the second hints were his loyalty to the company. So I wasn't too surprised to see him turn on them. He almost came off as a Burke to me, but not a greedy kind of Burke. More like a loyal one who wanted the job done.
I actually thought
Spoiler
that Lebbon would subvert our expectations and have McIlveen turn out to not be a bad guy. Wasn't expecting him to go full Wren and try and hold everyone at gun point.
Do we think that Mains and Lieder will get rescued again, or do we think they're gone for good this time?
Spoiler
I highly doubt Mains and Lieder will be rescued. Lebbon did tease us, he reminds us how they couldn't figure out the ship on UMF 12, but this one, Lieder was more familiar with it and just when we think she'd be able to figure it out, Aliens have breached it already...
And no, the Othello has been completely destroyed by the nukes that Mains and Lieder set off in their last moments. Beatrix Maloney hears of the Othello's destruction later on.
I know Incursion pretty much made it seem like they were screwed, but trust me man, this time they WERE screwed. I am willing to bet that they are deader than a dodo.
If they show up in Armageddon and I am wrong, then I shall donate myself to the nearest Alien hive for facehugging.
And regarding your earlier question, I loved the Xenomorphs with the exopacks on their backs to help them breathe in space. That was an interesting twist.
That end!
Spoiler
As if my ship is going to responsible for helping devastate Sigourney Weaver's planet!
Quote from: The Alien Predator on May 08, 2016, 05:24:34 PM
Spoiler
I highly doubt Mains and Lieder will be rescued. Lebbon did tease us, he reminds us how they couldn't figure out the ship on UMF 12, but this one, Lieder was more familiar with it and just when we think she'd be able to figure it out, Aliens have breached it already...
And no, the Othello has been completely destroyed by the nukes that Mains and Lieder set off in their last moments. Beatrix Maloney hears of the Othello's destruction later on.
I know Incursion pretty much made it seem like they were screwed, but trust me man, this time they WERE screwed. I am willing to bet that they are deader than a dodo.
Yeah, I'm in complete agreement with you there. The definitive
Spoiler
destruction of the Othello makes it seem quite unlikely they'll have survived it.
YES! I was waiting for you to reach the end, Hicks, I knew you were gonna love it muhahahaha!
While reading this book, I couldn't help but think...
Spoiler
does the Covenant class as a Fiennes ship? From the sound of it, the Fiennes ships as well as the Covenant both seem to be hauling a huge amount of people to distant worlds.
And who the heck signs up for that? None of this stuff ends up well... you either end up being biologically violated on the genetic level by David, or the Rage... depends on your luck. :P
Also as a fan of Star Trek, what did you think of them using terms like "Warp-15" and such?
Also did you guys catch the Star Wars reference? It's official, Star Wars exists as an in-universe movie!
Maybe top of the line gear for fighting other humans with the same plans and rules..Not when
Spoiler
The other team is bringing down guys classic(for the time) paratrooper style and has air support
Quote from: The Alien Predator on May 08, 2016, 08:09:48 PM
YES! I was waiting for you to reach the end, Hicks, I knew you were gonna love it muhahahaha!
Haha! I was like "what?!" :laugh: :laugh:
QuoteWhile reading this book, I couldn't help but think... Spoiler
does the Covenant class as a Fiennes ship? From the sound of it, the Fiennes ships as well as the Covenant both seem to be hauling a huge amount of people to distant worlds.
And who the heck signs up for that? None of this stuff ends up well... you either end up being biologically violated on the genetic level by David, or the Rage... depends on your luck. :P
Whilst I acknowledge that The Rage Wars are intended as canon at the minute, I don't expect the films to acknowledge anything from them in the slightest. I'd say they're obviously intended as similar concepts but I don't expect to hear the Covenant be called Fiennes ship at all.
And adventurous people do! You don't got into it with the assumption you're going to meet a horrible end! :laugh:
QuoteAlso as a fan of Star Trek, what did you think of them using terms like "Warp-15" and such?
Made me double-take thought it doesn't fuss me too much either way.
QuoteAlso did you guys catch the Star Wars reference? It's official, Star Wars exists as an in-universe movie!
No? Prey tell?
When Mains is talking to Durante, Durante mentions an "old flat movie" (I assume that means screen movie rather than holographic movie) about a group of people who land their spaceship on an asteroid but it turned out to be the mouth of a giant space worm.
Ah, yes. I remember now. :laugh:
I was tickled by the Stephen King reference!
What was the Stephen King reference again?
Mains tells Durante that he thought he was more a Stephen King guy when they're talking about what Durante is reading.
Oh yeah, I remember that now. And Durante said "I scare easily." XD
I'm really looking forward to
Spoiler
seeing more of that Predator research station in Book 3. Lebbon will probably introduce some cool Predator tech.
I am also really looking forward to it as well!
And what happens to
Spoiler
Lilliya and Hashori next. So exciting. Also how the Yautja interact with the citizens of Hell.
Quote from: The Alien Predator on May 10, 2016, 04:59:41 PM
I am also really looking forward to it as well!
And what happens to Spoiler
Lilliya and Hashori next. So exciting. Also how the Yautja interact with the citizens of Hell.
I'm also looking forward to what happens with
Spoiler
the Faze. They way the survivors on the Othello were afraid of it, it seems like Lebbon might be setting it up to have a more villainous role in the last book. It's cool how the Rage are using it to super power that drop-hole so they can get right to Earth from the Outer Rim. As always, I still have my fingers crossed that maybe a dog-alien or two shows up, but I'm not really expecting it.
Quote from: Ultramorph on May 10, 2016, 05:04:25 PM
Quote from: The Alien Predator on May 10, 2016, 04:59:41 PM
I am also really looking forward to it as well!
And what happens to Spoiler
Lilliya and Hashori next. So exciting. Also how the Yautja interact with the citizens of Hell.
I'm also looking forward to what happens with Spoiler
the Faze. They way the survivors on the Othello were afraid of it, it seems like Lebbon might be setting it up to have a more villainous role in the last book. It's cool how the Rage are using it to super power that drop-hole so they can get right to Earth from the Outer Rim. As always, I still have my fingers crossed that maybe a dog-alien or two shows up, but I'm not really expecting it.
Maybe Lebbon might be going back to
Spoiler
the original idea of there being an alien race invading.
Only he made it seem like it was humans, when it could've been the Faze all along.
I'm also hoping to see a Dog-Alien or two... or an Arcturian although Lebbon said they won't be showing up. But perhaps in some future book...
I know the multiverse thing was brought up again in one line in this book cause someone told me... Hopefully in the next one, it will be explored exactly HOW the Founders had experimented with such things rather than it be a throw away line. ::)
That would be quite a twist if
Spoiler
it turned out that the Faze was manipulating Maloney and the Rage all along, and it was all just a smokescreen for the dog-aliens to invade.
Imagine if
Spoiler
the Faze was actually pretending to be a dumb biomechanical slug.
I doubt something simple and dumb could build biomechanical warp-30 ships with shields, modify completely alien tech and improve upon it, as well as track people like Liliya across many lightyears.
Plus I love how it built the Watcher in self defence, as if it knew Liliya's violent intentions, or as a response to her actions after she escapes.
So it's probably been purposely ignoring the Founder's communication attempts in the past. It may have just played along.
For all we know, maybe the Faze was responsible for the downfall of the Dog-Aliens... notice how they were untouched by the Xenomorphs whereas their masters got wiped out?
Do we even know if the Dog-Aliens actually built the Faze? Or found them and implemented them just like the Founders?
Quote from: RakaiThwei on May 10, 2016, 05:59:28 PM
I know the multiverse thing was brought up again in one line in this book cause someone told me... Hopefully in the next one, it will be explored exactly HOW the Founders had experimented with such things rather than it be a throw away line. ::)
That's not the point of the comment. It's to show how advanced they have become. It's not a focus.
Quote from: The Alien Predator on May 10, 2016, 07:14:13 PM
Imagine if Spoiler
the Faze was actually pretending to be a dumb biomechanical slug.
I doubt something simple and dumb could build biomechanical warp-30 ships with shields, modify completely alien tech and improve upon it, as well as track people like Liliya across many lightyears.
Plus I love how it built the Watcher in self defence, as if it knew Liliya's violent intentions, or as a response to her actions after she escapes.
So it's probably been purposely ignoring the Founder's communication attempts in the past. It may have just played along.
For all we know, maybe the Faze was responsible for the downfall of the Dog-Aliens... notice how they were untouched by the Xenomorphs whereas their masters got wiped out?
Do we even know if the Dog-Aliens actually built the Faze? Or found them and implemented them just like the Founders?
It's still not clear if
Spoiler
the Dog-aliens are the masters. It was implied that they might be some sort of created or servant species.
This is just Mass Effect with xenomorphs and The Rage instead of Cerberus and Reapers.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on May 11, 2016, 07:30:45 AM
Quote from: RakaiThwei on May 10, 2016, 05:59:28 PM
I know the multiverse thing was brought up again in one line in this book cause someone told me... Hopefully in the next one, it will be explored exactly HOW the Founders had experimented with such things rather than it be a throw away line. ::)
That's not the point of the comment. It's to show how advanced they have become. It's not a focus.
Quote from: The Alien Predator on May 10, 2016, 07:14:13 PM
Imagine if Spoiler
the Faze was actually pretending to be a dumb biomechanical slug.
I doubt something simple and dumb could build biomechanical warp-30 ships with shields, modify completely alien tech and improve upon it, as well as track people like Liliya across many lightyears.
Plus I love how it built the Watcher in self defence, as if it knew Liliya's violent intentions, or as a response to her actions after she escapes.
So it's probably been purposely ignoring the Founder's communication attempts in the past. It may have just played along.
For all we know, maybe the Faze was responsible for the downfall of the Dog-Aliens... notice how they were untouched by the Xenomorphs whereas their masters got wiped out?
Do we even know if the Dog-Aliens actually built the Faze? Or found them and implemented them just like the Founders?
It's still not clear if Spoiler
the Dog-aliens are the masters. It was implied that they might be some sort of created or servant species.
I always assumed the
Spoiler
Dog-Aliens created the Faze to be their tools.
But imagine it's the other way around!
I remember Lebbon implying they
Spoiler
could both be inventions/servants to another race - the Engineers, perhaps? Would probably explain why the Faze gives the Rage ships a bit of a biomechanical appearance.
I hope we get another interview with Lebbon. Or he joins the forum for a bit, like Jeff VanderMeer, John Shirley and Steve Perry did. ;D
So we can have our "Ask Tim" thread.
I just picked up a copy an am starting to read it. The first chapter with Mains was very cool. It helps to know the characters. I would love to read some more prior to falling asleep, but Aliens vs. Pinball has a hold on me. Addictive!
Quote from: The Alien Predator on May 11, 2016, 03:20:01 PM
I hope we get another interview with Lebbon. Or he joins the forum for a bit, like Jeff VanderMeer, John Shirley and Steve Perry did. ;D
So we can have our "Ask Tim" thread.
I can float him an invite over towards the release of Armageddon.
Also folk, get thinking if you have any questions for Tim for our next interview with him.
I am curious if Tim knows of any plans he's allowed to hint to us about other alien races showing up. What was the significance of mentioning the Arcturians for instance? Was the idea of introducing a new alien race (like the Dog-Aliens) his own or did Fox ask him to add more aliens?
Out of the Shadows introduces us to the Dog-Aliens.
Sea of Sorrows mentions Arcturians and "loads of aliens" plus the Dog-Aliens.
River of Pain mentions trading with Arcturians and then "friendly and hostile aliens".
Predator: Incursion adds "friendly, hostile and indifferent aliens" and once more mentions the Dog-Aliens while introducing the
Spoiler
Faze
who may or may not be sapient.
Alien: Invasion not only mentions Arcturians, but introduces the idea of humans settling with them and forsaking their humanity. And again Dog-Aliens are mentioned and the
Spoiler
Faze
is expanded upon.
Could we expect anymore teases like this in Armageddon? Or in Aliens: Bug Hunts?
I'm just really curious as I recall someone mentioning one of the authors saying that there were plans for them, when he was asked about the Arcturians. I think it was James A. Moore who said it since we were all curious as to why he mentioned them in Sea of Sorrows for the first time in a long time. I wonder if Tim knows anything about that.
My Invasion review is up. I really enjoyed this one. On par with Incursion for me.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/literature/reviews/alien-invasion/
That was a great review, Hicks. I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Great review, as always, of Invasion. I'm about halfway through Incursion and just ordered Invasion and I'm really excited to see how this all plays out, I think these books have been the best Alien/Predator books in a while.
Thanks for the kind words. What I'm really enjoying is how different they feel to the other novels. Make them feel refreshing in terms of Alien and Predator.
I agree with that. It feels very different and yet, quite familiar. It's done in a sensible and fitting way that feels so believable.
I wonder why no mention of Engineers this far in the future? Are we going to get a surprise Prometheus book after Aliens vs Predator Armageddon? I mean, everything since Prometheus has been Alien, Predator, Prometheus and Aliens vs Predator though not in that order. So whats the deal? Some elements seem Engineery but nothings been out right confirmed.
Quote from: LordCassusSnow on May 22, 2016, 02:19:05 AM
I wonder why no mention of Engineers this far in the future? Are we going to get a surprise Prometheus book after Aliens vs Predator Armageddon? I mean, everything since Prometheus has been Alien, Predator, Prometheus and Aliens vs Predator though not in that order. So whats the deal? Some elements seem Engineery but nothings been out right confirmed.
I hope we get a Prometheus novel at some point. I would love to see what LV-223 looks like in the 27th century.
As far as why the Engineers aren't mentioned, I think that even that far in the future, only a handful of top WY execs even know about the Engineers.
I also hope we get a Prometheus novel after the Rage Wars. It could be set after, like the 28th century or even 29th or 30th.
There won't be any major Prometheus stuff while they're in the middle of making a movie. All the Engineer activity has been confined to LV-223.
This thread has been pretty quiet lately.
When can we expect a synopsis for the third book? :)
You have a point SM. they'll probably explore it more after this film is done, or a few more films fleshing out the Engineers.
I check Amazon every morning to see if the summary has gone up yet. :laugh: We'll probably get it in a month or two, it might have spoilers.
Really looking forward to Lebbon's story in Bug Hunt!
Wish these novels came in 6-12 comics or one nice thick Trade Paperback Graphic Novel with pictures...
A comic or graphic novel set in the Rage War time period is currently the thing I wish for most from the literature end of things.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jun 15, 2016, 06:47:39 PM
A comic or graphic novel set in the Rage War time period is currently the thing I wish for most from the literature end of things.
Same here. My life would be complete if they do this. :laugh:
QuoteThe Rage War is done... Alien v Predator: Armageddon is edited and delivered. It hits the shelves in September.
Tim on Facebook.
Now the agonising wait intensifies
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Quote from: SM on May 22, 2016, 10:31:11 AM
There won't be any major Prometheus stuff while they're in the middle of making a movie. All the Engineer activity has been confined to LV-223.
Hasn't Life and Death had at least one Engineer turning up on another planet?
Not sure I can really accept these novels as "true", considering they spin out of the previous trilogy from Titan, which I've heard got a lot of details from the original movies wrong.
When I posted that, the final issue of Predator L&D hadn't been published, so I couldn't go spoiling stuff.
The comics aren't linked to the Titan novels (besides some links between River of Pain and Aliens: Fire & Stone). They largely take place in 2219-2220, which is decades after two books and centuries before the third.
I understand the Rage War saga takes place in the late 27th century, a little over three hundred years since A: R. But how has technology progressed in those centuries? I know Weyland-Yutani and the Colonial Marines are still around, but how different are they from Aliens?
Technology has advanced considerably, especially in terms of travelling long distances through space.
Spoiler
We now have what are called drop-holes, which are basically artificial wormholes that allow us to travel great distances, but even with those, we've only been able to explore a small fraction of the galaxy. FTL has also advanced quite a bit, but has serious limits because it requires a rare ore called trimonite. The Marines also have advanced combat suits with integrated weapons (plasma weapons, nano-bomb guns, lasers, personal drones, etc.) And that's to say nothing of the Rage, the villains in the books...
What about the technology in Sea of Sorrows which, as I understand it, occurs in the 2490s, about two hundred years before the Rage Wars? Any significant advancements by that time?
I remember mention of plasma rifles - the power of a sun in a rifle. I know they were mentioned in Aliens so perhaps not quite an advancement.
What's the status of androids in the new books? If I remember correctly, by the time of Resurrection there weren't many of them and they were distrusted and persecuted by humans. Has that changed at all?
Well Rollins was an android in Sea of Sorrows. The book never outright states as much but I suspected as much and the author confirmed it for me.
Quote from: EJA on Jun 30, 2016, 03:49:02 PM
What's the status of androids in the new books? If I remember correctly, by the time of Resurrection there weren't many of them and they were distrusted and persecuted by humans. Has that changed at all?
Sea of Sorrows and the Weyland-Yutani report establish that androids get citizenship rights in the 24th century, but after Weyland-Yutani comes back into prominence, that gets overturned.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jun 30, 2016, 02:28:02 PM
I remember mention of plasma rifles - the power of a sun in a rifle. I know they were mentioned in Aliens so perhaps not quite an advancement.
Also those rifles could pack a punch as the book eventually showed.
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Not much can withstand a blast of sun!
Is there anything about encounters humanity has with xenos and Preds in the centuries between Sea of Sorrows and Rage War?
Quote from: EJA on Jun 30, 2016, 07:03:33 PM
Is there anything about encounters humanity has with xenos and Preds in the centuries between Sea of Sorrows and Rage War?
The Rage War books go into that.
Spoiler
They basically establish that sometime after Sea of Sorrows, encounters between the Marines and Predators become increasingly common as humans expand their reach. By the 27th century, the Predators are common knowledge, and WY/Marines consdier themselves to be in a sort of Cold War with them. That being said, the Preds are still basically a mystery to humans, since only one has ever been taken alive and it killed itself.
As far as the xenos, those too are common knowledge by the time Rage War rolls around. One of the Marines in Predator: Incursion recognizes them just by the sounds they make, and there are references to some of them knowing guys who got maimed fighting xenos. That being said, W-Y has still yet to successfully weaponize them, and before the Rage rekindles their interest, it seems they had largely given up trying.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jun 30, 2016, 07:12:47 PM
Quote from: EJA on Jun 30, 2016, 07:03:33 PM
Is there anything about encounters humanity has with xenos and Preds in the centuries between Sea of Sorrows and Rage War?
The Rage War books go into that. Spoiler
They basically establish that sometime after Sea of Sorrows, encounters between the Marines and Predators become increasingly common as humans expand their reach. By the 27th century, the Predators are common knowledge, and WY/Marines consdier themselves to be in a sort of Cold War with them. That being said, the Preds are still basically a mystery to humans, since only one has ever been taken alive and it killed itself.
As far as the xenos, those too are common knowledge by the time Rage War rolls around. One of the Marines in Predator: Incursion recognizes them just by the sounds they make, and there are references to some of them knowing guys who got maimed fighting xenos. That being said, W-Y has still yet to successfully weaponize them, and before the Rage rekindles their interest, it seems they had largely given up trying.
Interesting. Sounds like an ideal place to put a number of the old EU material.
Pretty much. In Alien: Invasion one of the WY characters recollects on all the numerous ways they've tried weaponizing the xenos, could be read as any number of the old stories.
I'm liking this route.
The book is two months away. I find it odd that we still haven't got a synopsis up on Amazon yet. I think the others had it up for a while before their release. In fact they had one then it got updated as we got closer to release. This one hasn't even had a proto-synopsis up yet.
Seems they don't want to give away the story early
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Caved in and ordered parts 1 and 2 today. I've been curious for a while how movies like Alien and Predator, the charm of which works mostly thanks to visuals, translates to novels.
I wonder if we'll get more trilogies like this. I know we got a previous one, but I mean connected ones like Rage War.
I hope so! Maybe we'll get a Predator trilogy for the anniversary next year. I wouldn't mind if they kept jumping forward in time, either.
I'd love that! I wanna see how the Rage War changes things for the future timeline.
Same here. Or someone could deal with 'predator thick' stories...maybe give the more of the ever so small peaks we get of the Predator life.
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I'm not too keen on more future adventures unless they tone down mankind's advantage. I thought Alien: Invasion had the Predators being much more threatening but I just didn't feel that way in Incursion.
Personally, I'd love to see some more adventures set in the past.
Somehow mankind's constant advantage is always just scraping through, not tech or anything else. As for the Predators, we get bits of what they can do
Spoiler
e.g ship battles in Incursion, ship-boarding in both books.
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I don't think I'd call it a scrapping advantage in Incursion. The Incursionist ship take out quite a number of Predator vessels before going down and the Incursionist themselves can easily take a Predator out. It was very much about technological advancements in that particular novel.
In a strange way, I actually liked our advantage.
It goes to show the consequence of our swift progress. But the book does state that the Predators do progress quickly too and are quick enough to surpass us whenever we reverse engineer something.
Also like I mentioned months ago, the sole reason the Predators weren't doing well against Marines in the first book is due to it being hunters vs soldiers. And the ships were simply hunting jeeps in space going against a tank. And for a hunting jeep, they did remarkably well. The marines took out many of them due to sneaky surprise attacks using drones and distractions, but one burst of Predator laser fire seriously screwed up the Ocshe and forced it to land quickly on UMF-12 and let the crew escape before it blew up.
But their warships actually handle themselves pretty well. When they really got ready for combat, such as in Invasion, they did very well and I might say, better than the Marines in some cases. Even on foot they were dominating the Rage. In Incursion, the Zeere-Za warship "atomized" a Rage ship with a burst of laser fire. The sole reason it got destroyed is because it got swarmed by many Rage ships, but the crew were putting up quite a fight.
Also they still had advantages over us, such as
Spoiler
hidden research bases in the Human Sphere, capable of jamming our communications and making us unable to send messages elsewhere. Plus their ships do still come off as faster than ours. Also Hashori's liquid metal ship is pretty badass.
Add that to those two ships and crew protecting everyone's favourite soldiers and scientist. They seem to be different. Maybe more warriors than hunters
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Also the bit towards
Spoiler
the end where a group of Yautja ships arrive to help the station of Hell.
Also, the Rage seem to dominate humans in space combat. However,
Spoiler
Hashori held her own very well against several Rage ships while fleeing the Zeere-Za in her tiny ship in Invasion.
These books do state that each Predator ship is different. So logically, some ships would be better capable of combat than others.
Now we have to ask, were those warriors or hunters? That makes all the difference. I think she sensed or made contact with warriors answering the call to war
perching
Exactly, the Predators at the beginning of Incursion were hunters expecting to hunt small game (independent security guards/mercenaries aka "Indies"), the CM were called in and that's how they were able to take them down. The CM still lost two marines.
The Predators on UMF-12 were ambushed and unprepared. It was literally a settlement that got overrun by Xenomorphs, and the ships that the marines took out were unprepared and probably panicked average non-war ships leaving to regroup and get back to their senses before planning a counterattack. And still one of them destroyed the marine ship with a burst of lasers.
Then we have Predators who are ready to kick ass. Hashori was dominating Xenomorphs, the Preds on the Zeere-Za put up quite a fight before its destruction due to an ambush by multiple Rage ships. Hashori also singlehandedly fought a space battle on her own against the same pursuing Rage ships without Liliya even realizing lol.
And during a Rage attack, the Marines were getting their asses kicked until the Predators joined in and destroyed the Rage ship. Plus during one bit inside a Rage ship, it was the Predators who
Spoiler
captured the enemy Android and handed it to the humans (completely mangled and f**ked up) before leaving. They took out several Xenomorphs as well.
Unprepared, anything will get its ass kicked no matter what.
It's when they are prepared, that the Predators show their true potential in combat. That's how it's always been with them when you think of it, in the films and such, they were always prepared and dominating the chess board. It is only when they are unprepared for a surprise that they get truly screwed such as in this book.
Still feels like they have warriors and hunters. That android bit was crazy...like those prizes at a fanfare..just plucked and handed to the humans like a doll/teddy
perching
Seven ships left UMF-12. Ochse destroyed 2, disabled another 2 and 3 escaped.
Thanks SM.
It got a bit tricky to keep tabs on all the ships for me. During my first read, it felt as if the majority got destroyed. Glad to know it wasn't as many as I thought.
It takes a lot of mental gymnastics to convince oneself that the Excursionists didn't shit all over the Yautja in Incursion.
Regardless, that's not really my main issue with Lebbon.
Lebbon'a prose is barely tolerable. He uses "suicided" as a verb...and that's just the tip of the iceberg
'Suicided' is a verb.
And the Predators they fought on UMF 12 would hardly be the best the species had to offer.
Yes, a very silly verb to use in a novel..."the Yautja suicided"...I chuckled
This is of course my personal taste in prose
SM, what did you think of the books so far?
Putting aside some of the nitpicky things like starship speeds, dates, and how dropholes work, they're pretty decent. The combat sequences don't get too repetitive and drawn out, which is a danger with something as military as this. Most of the characters are engaging, even the more one dimensional ones (like the marines). When you need to chronicle a story, I dig the chapters from each persons perspective, and each chapter rarely overstays its welcome. I'm very interested to see where it's going to go.
I'm glad you liked it, I agree with your points. I did enjoy how the starships are a bit grounded and slower compared to most sci fi. It kept to the whole "space travel is difficult and takes time" theme that Alien has going for it. For me, it respected the vastness of outer space.
I relate to you on the dates, for me, I didn't notice that at some points in the book, they jumped back and forth until a reviewer pointed out. It was done intentionally and not by mistake (except the Prologue chapter).
As for dropholes, before this book, I didn't like the idea of Alien having things like jumpgates, wormholes and hyperspace travel, I always thought of space travel as good ol' going physically faster than light. But Incursion and Invasion did convince me that those things can work and fit into the Alien-Predator universe. What didn't you like about the dropholes?
The dates for each chapter don't pose a problem; it's the historical stuff, mainly relating to Liliya's history and the Founders. There's the odd error here and there.
Ship speeds are a little annoying, because the Arrow-class are touted as being the fastest ships around - 15 times the speed of light. Yet Prometheus, Nostromo and Sulaco travel at 15, 47 and 677 times the speed of light respectively.
Dropholes - like the idea, but they're a bit ill-defined. On the one hand they seem be like wormholes where you enter one end, and exit the other instantaneously. But trips - short ones of only a few light years - seem to take weeks. I predict
Spoiler
the Company will make good on their threat to destroy them in the next book, thus making space that much more vast for stories that follow.
Just nitpicky stuff that doesn't really harm the overall enjoyment.
Wow, I never knew the Nostromo and Sulaco were faster than Arrow Class ships. You should be the go to guy for future authors. They had the right idea to ask for your input in the W-Y Report as you seem the most knowledgeable in the things many of us easily miss.
You are correct that these little mistakes don't harm the overall story though.
I can't wait to see what happens next. The marketing for the books did say "the universe will be changed forever", or something along those lines. Perhaps the
Spoiler
destruction of the dropholes could be the beginning of that change and how the human race goes on from there.
Yes I expect so.
Spoiler
Could make things a lot more isolated.
Also
Spoiler
You're too kind
I agree, things could get really interesting for what lays ahead.
Spoiler
Thank you. :)
Quote from: SM on Jul 06, 2016, 02:08:43 AM
Yes I expect so.
Spoiler
Could make things a lot more isolated.
Also
Spoiler
You're too kind
Are you even allowed to tell us if you're consulting on any other books or would your NDA prevent you from saying even that much?
Reads like fan fiction...
Spoiler
"They suicide if faced with overwhelming odds," Snowdon suggested. "So where are the overwhelming odds?" Mains said. "And why did we see a load of their ships fleeing the habitat?""They don't run away from a fight," Snowdon said. "Fighting's what they live for. That'd be like Faulkner running away from alcohol.""Funny," Faulkner said. "Maybe they were retreating, regrouping," Lieder said. "Left a small force behind to harry the enemy, destroy their own ships if the time was right.""Maybe," Snowdon said, sounding doubtful. "But we've seen no evidence that they act in concert. Even in a big fight, they're on their own. They're just not like us.""That still begs one question ," Mains said. "What enemy were they harrying?""Let's not hang around to find out, eh?" Faulkner said.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 06, 2016, 03:27:34 PM
Quote from: SM on Jul 06, 2016, 02:08:43 AM
Yes I expect so.
Spoiler
Could make things a lot more isolated.
Also
Spoiler
You're too kind
Are you even allowed to tell us if you're consulting on any other books or would your NDA prevent you from saying even that much?
I'm allowed to say I've not read Armageddon.
Ok, silly question...
Could someone type out the last two sentences of Predatar Incursion and Alien Invasion? I've had it happen before that I got a misprint with pages missing. Ever since, I like to check to make sure my copies are complete. I know, this sounds so stupid......
Quote from: Thomas H. on Jul 12, 2016, 07:33:40 PM
Ok, silly question...
Could someone type out the last two sentences of Predatar Incursion and Alien Invasion? I've had it happen before that I got a misprint with pages missing. Ever since, I like to check to make sure my copies are complete. I know, this sounds so stupid......
Predator: Incursion -
Spoiler
As Mains heard the chilling scratch of countless claws approaching from below the flight deck, Patton began to laugh.
Alien: Invasion -
Spoiler
Home.
Soon, she would be ready to drown it in blood.
Hope that helps.
You, sir, are a legend!! That helps so much. ;)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg06.deviantart.net%2F303e%2Fi%2F2012%2F337%2Fd%2F1%2Fthumbs_up_for_the_watchers__by_pedrotpredator-d5mzk4i.jpg&hash=1c1ab284772ac9143ab7a45f8abd1bf5768e37d1)
Ok, so.....
I'm halfway through the first novel. I love the worldbuilding, some interesting characters sofar, and quite eventful. However.....
I was promised Predators. It's a Predator novel. Sofar, we've only had corpes, and some ships. I truly hope we get go further into Yautja culture, see some actual characters.
You will. And soon.
Allright then.
:D
Ok, nearly done with Incursion, and liking it quite a lot. However....
Page 289, Shamana says "...surrender." Literally 6 pages later, during her torture, Liliya muses that they don't words for surrender, weakness or pain.....
Right.....
Quote from: Thomas H. on Jul 17, 2016, 11:55:58 AM
Ok, nearly done with Incursion, and liking it quite a lot. However....
Page 289, Shamana says "...surrender." Literally 6 pages later, during her torture, Liliya muses that they don't words for surrender, weakness or pain.....
Right.....
Here are some of my thoughts on that.
Lilliya was speculating or she was ignorant. Because she comes from a much earlier time before humans were probably aware of the Predators. And she only learned what the Rage and earlier research teams managed to learn compared to Isa and her most up to date research.
Because Isa Palant in Alien: Invasion states that
Spoiler
the Yautja don't just have multiple dialects, but literally multiple languages. Which can be as different as French is from English. Also Predators sometimes take mannerisms from other alien races. She noted one clan of Predators had a hint of Celt in their language structure (not Celtic words mind you, but the way they spoke). So Shamana or his clan could've learned of the human concept of "surrender" and had their own word for it. (Is this a little homage to the Celtic Predator from AvP?)
So Shamana probably spoke a different tongue compared to Hashori of the Widow Clan.
Also note that the translator isn't always literal, it can translate words to the closest meaning. For instance, when Hashori says "Yautja", she says something completely different but Lilliya's inner translator translates it to "Yautja" anyway to help her understand.
Plus Isa's translator was in its earliest stages as well. For all we know, the Predator could have said "give up?" "give myself to you?" something like that but the translator thought "oh well he probably means 'surrender' so I'll tell her that."
I like these little tidbits, it shows just how little we really know about the Predators. Characters can only assume and speculate.
I considered some of the points you make, and they do make sense. Still, as advanced as she is, with the amount of research she and The Rage could have been doing, I tend to now believe Liliya more than Palant. I mean, it was quickly put together translator to begin with.
Ok, finished Incursion, my first steps into Alien/Predator novels. Really, really liked it. The worldbuilding was amazing. Loved the Yautja! Some very interesting characters that I'm curious to see more of.
Question:
Spoiler
Was Kalakta supposed to be Greyback/Elder Predator from Predator 2?
I don't think he would have specifically described to be that one. More just like an Elder we've already seen.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jul 18, 2016, 07:27:53 AM
I don't think he would have specifically described to be that one. More just like an Elder we've already seen.
I wondered, because he specificly mentioned fighting humans in a hot city, and being impressed by the dark skinned man. But he could ofcourse not be the Elder, but one of the other Yautja's who since then became a Elder.
Oh, yeah! Completely forgot about that comment! Yeah, in that case I think you've very right.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jul 18, 2016, 07:56:39 AM
Oh, yeah! Completely forgot about that comment! Yeah, in that case I think you've very right.
When I read that part, I looked at my Elder Predator V2 action figure, and just smiled a little.
I'm glad you enjoyed it, Thomas.
Definitely give Alien: Invasion a chance! I loved Incursion to death, and Invasion just gets better!
Already started Invasion. ;)
And then it's an excruciating wait until Armageddon... :laugh: Hurry up, September!
I might start reading this trilogy next, I've been craving more Predator literature. :)
The two books so far are really good!
We have a synopsis for Book 3! Nothing too spoilerific, but beware if you're going in blind.
Spoiler
The Rage launch the ultimate assault on the Human Sphere. Their greatest weapons are the most fearsome creatures in the galaxy—the Xenomorphs.
Having fled centuries before, the Rage return to take revenge and claim the planet for their own. Now, through a deal struck with the unlikeliest of allies, the human race may rely on the Predators to ensure mankind's ultimate freedom. Yet even the combined might of the two races may not be enough. The fate of the Earth may rest with a single android—Liliya of the Rage.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jul 24, 2016, 05:51:08 PM
We have a synopsis for Book 3! Nothing too spoilerific, but beware if you're going in blind.
Spoiler
The Rage launch the ultimate assault on the Human Sphere. Their greatest weapons are the most fearsome creatures in the galaxy—the Xenomorphs.
Having fled centuries before, the Rage return to take revenge and claim the planet for their own. Now, through a deal struck with the unlikeliest of allies, the human race may rely on the Predators to ensure mankind's ultimate freedom. Yet even the combined might of the two races may not be enough. The fate of the Earth may rest with a single android—Liliya of the Rage.
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!!!!!!!!!
I just remembered this passage in Predator: Incursion which mentioned that Yautja take human captives when hunting in highly populated areas. No one actually knows what happens to the captives.
What do you guys think?
My friend suggested they could be taken to be dropped at hunting preserves like in Predators.
I definitely took that as a reference to the hunting planets from Predators.
Now that the door is open, maybe we'll get a mention of the Hish in Book 3.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Aug 01, 2016, 02:28:07 AM
Now that the door is open, maybe we'll get a mention of the Hish in Book 3.
Please, God, no.
Unless that term is going to be used as a species name for the Super Predators, if we see them in the new EU.
Only if he likes the name Hish. The Yautja in this aren't the Yautja. It's just a superficial name.
If the Yautja in this aren't the Yautja - what are they?
You know what I mean. They aren't Perry's culture (thank God), they're Lebbon's interpretation. They just have the same name because Lebbon thought it sounded cool.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 01, 2016, 08:35:05 AM
You know what I mean. They aren't Perry's culture (thank God), they're Lebbon's interpretation. They just have the same name because Lebbon thought it sounded cool.
Reminds me of what VanderMeer did with SCS, definitely not the Hish-qu-Ten but certainly not Perry's Yautja either. It was his own interpretation of Predators and thus far was the most interesting take on them I've read so far.
Hicks, do you plan any more interviews with Lebbon once the third book is out?
I do indeed. Probably the best time to do a nice big one covering the series.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 01, 2016, 03:43:09 PM
I do indeed. Probably the best time to do a nice big one covering the series.
Agreed! I look forward to it. It may even be a good time to sneak in a question or two about Aliens: Bug Hunts. :P
I can't wait to hear more about Bug Hunt!
QuoteYou know what I mean.
Not really. They hunt. They have a code. There's not a great deal more to it, is there?
There's more to the various interpretations than that. We've seen it over the various books. They are all intended as completely separate interpretations. That's not to say you can't retcon them to exist simultaneously as different cultures within the Predator (as Shirley thought about when he found out about the Yautja) but that's not how they were written.
The most obvious difference would be Perry's Predators refer to themselves as Yautja. Lebbon's Predators do not. It's just what the humans call them for some reason.
These guys are just Predators. A different interpretation of them by Lebbon. And I like that.
There really isn't that much to Perry's Yautja
There's more to Perry's Dachande...who.could be viewed as your noble space-samurai Mary Sue
I think what Hick is trying to say these are are YINOs...
Yautja in Name Only.
What did we learn about Predators in the Perry's book that's so different to what's in Rage War?
Quote from: SM on Aug 03, 2016, 06:18:21 AM
What did we learn about Predators in the Perry's book that's so different to what's in Rage War?
I can't exactly answer that seeing as I have no real inclination to read the Rage War.
As far as I know about the Perry's Predators, they explicitly refer to themselves as Yautja, where as in the Rage War, when they heard a human refer to them as Yautja-- they were taken a back by this and asked "Yautja?" as if they didn't refer to themselves as such.
Also, the females were bigger than the males according to the Perry's version.. Here? Well, not so much but it's difficult to tell the difference between a male and female Predator.. until closely examined anyway.
Culturally speaking... from what I remember, the Hunt was about climbing a social ladder in the culture, and for males it was used as a means of eugenics. Predators who failed the hunt weren't allowed to breed, only those who were successful in hunting their first Xenomorph were allowed the right to breed, the right to hunt in territories, and the right to better equipment.
So short answer is - very little.
Also their language was different but you could chalk that up to different dialects.
Quote from: happypred on Aug 02, 2016, 11:10:30 PM
There really isn't that much to Perry's Yautja
There's more to Perry's Dachande...who.could be viewed as your noble space-samurai Mary Sue
Who is supposed to be the ideal Yautja.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Aug 03, 2016, 06:43:10 AM
Also their language was different but you could chalk that up to different dialects.
As I mentioned earlier, you can retroactively fit them together just like Shirley wanted to do with the Hish and the Yautja but the fact is each interpretation wasn't written to account for the others. As Lebbon himself said "I haven't even read Steve Perry's work. But I'd heard about Yautja, and I thought it's a much better sounding name. So I'll admit to taking on that name without anything else that might have gone with it."
There's both surface differences and deeper differences between Perry's Predators and Lebbon's. On the surface, you've got the fact that Perry's Predator's refer to themselves as Yautja. In Rage Wars they don't have a f**king clue what Yautja is. Their individual naming convention is completely different. Humans can speak the Predator language in Prey, War. Humans can't physically speak the Predator language in Rage Wars.
I know happypred will argue until he's blue in the face about the whole space samurai thing but Dachande is supposed to be the epitome of that culture. That's not something that's present in any fashion in Lebbon's Predators. There are noticeable differences that fans who read Prey and War would pick up on as soon as they started to delve deeper into the Predators in Rage Wars.
It's all personal preference, of course, but I prefer to have them being less noble in any sense of the word. I just like the brutal Predators who want some fun kills. I really like Lebbon's Predators from that perspective (same as I like Flesh and Blood's Hish and the other incarnations of the Predator in Turnabout and South China Sea).
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Aug 03, 2016, 06:43:10 AMAlso their language was different but you could chalk that up to different dialects.
Do all humans speak the same language?
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 03, 2016, 08:09:20 AM
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Aug 03, 2016, 06:43:10 AMAlso their language was different but you could chalk that up to different dialects.
Do all humans speak the same language?
There's a bit of a bigger difference in that Rage Wars presents the Predator language as something mankind is just physically unable to speak. Our throats/vocal chords/whatever biology are simply not able to work the same way.
Whereas that's not the case with the Yautja. Granted, I think Machiko butchers some of the language though but she is able to speak some of it.
Liliya speaks their language. Does it flat out say humans can't?
QuoteAs far as I know about the Perry's Predators, they explicitly refer to themselves as Yautja, where as in the Rage War, when they heard a human refer to them as Yautja-- they were taken a back by this and asked "Yautja?" as if they didn't refer to themselves as such.
Hashori refers to themselves as such.
Quote from: SM on Aug 03, 2016, 12:14:55 PM
Liliya speaks their language. Does it flat out say humans can't?
It does. Specifically mentioning that as a 'droid Liliya is able to alter her vocal chords or whatever it was so she could communicate.
QuoteHashori refers to themselves as such.
IIRC that was after Liliya referring to them as Yautja.
Hashori doesn't correct her. And the very fact they're widely known as Yautja, shows the word came from the Predators. Or at least it's a rough human translation.
As for humans speaking their language - they can; just not nearly as well as Liliya.
Quote from: SM on Aug 03, 2016, 12:41:40 PM
Hashori doesn't correct her. And the very fact they're widely known as Yautja, shows the word came from the Predators. Or at least it's a rough human translation.
That seemed to be the implication until Incursion revealed that mankind's only contact with the Predators was just the skirmishes. There'd been zero communicative contact until Palant and her translation device.
QuoteAs for humans speaking their language - they can; just not nearly as well as Liliya.
I'll have to double check later but I'm certain the book explicitly stated it wasn't physically possible for humans to speak the Predator language which was something I remember absolutely loving.
P 277-278
In Predator: Incursion, some of the lore does mention that during the 200 year "cold war" with the Predators, humans have been monitoring their communications and this is where we slowly picked up on their words and studied them.
I always pictured "Yautja" as a very butchered word, while humans were spying on their communications they must've picked up some consistent word that sounded similar and implemented it.
Consider this, why is Germany called "Germany" and not Deutschland? Why is Japan called "Japan" and not Nippon? Maybe this is a similar case, we must've liked the name "Yautja" and stuck to it. So whatever their name for their race is, Isa's translator and Liliya's own files in her mind registered it as "Yautja."
Lilliya does mention during her torture that when she said "Yautja", Hashori seemed confused. Also during their escape from the Zeere-Za, Liliya specifically notes that when Hashori said "Yautja", Liliya heard something completely different but her translators registered it as "Yautja".
And Hicks is correct, Liliya is able to speak Yautja because she is able to contort her Synthetic vocal cords to make them move in order to make the right sounds. Humans physically lack the proper palate to do that which is why Isa Palant cannot speak with them without her translator. Isa designed this translator by studying their language intently, she is an obsessed woman. If she could, she'd easily be speaking it like a hardcore Trekkie learning to speak Klingon. She is just not physically able to.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 03, 2016, 08:09:20 AM
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Aug 03, 2016, 06:43:10 AMAlso their language was different but you could chalk that up to different dialects.
Do all humans speak the same language?
In Predator: Incursion, Isa Palant notices different dialects, but in Alien: Invasion, upon further study of their language she notices that "Yautja" is indeed a diverse language where some clan's language is as similar as English is to French when compared to another clan's.
I also loved how the Predators sort of integrate linguistic habits from other races. Isa notes that Elder Kalakta's clan had some Celtic roots (a little nod to Celtic Predator eh? ;D) in their language.
Predators are a primordial race who have encountered many cultures so it's no surprise that they absorb some things. Kinda how many English words have some Latin or French words in them.
This explains why when Predators speak and their words are translated, you may notice certain speaking similarities to us.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 03, 2016, 07:29:00 AM
It's all personal preference, of course, but I prefer to have them being less noble in any sense of the word. I just like the brutal Predators who want some fun kills. I really like Lebbon's Predators from that perspective (same as I like Flesh and Blood's Hish and the other incarnations of the Predator in Turnabout and South China Sea).
In Alien: Invasion, the Yautja are indeed described as brutal and take captives. Hashori does however put a lot of emphasis on being a warrior. She was VERY argumentative when Liliya merely suggested she sit in the ship for a bit while the android negotiates with the humans. Hashori viewed that as cowardly and only "criminals and cowards hide." When Liliya pointed out that humans fear her race, she asked the Predator "why's that?" to which Hashori proudly responds with "they respect our warrior prowess." She even mocked the humans in their own space station by pointing out that it "stinks of fear."
They are really against the concept of surrender, Shamana would rather die than let Isa help him in Incursion, calling her offer as "surrender".
The Predators also get sadistic during hunts as well which adds to their cruelty and brutality as a race.
But you know what else adds to this lack of compassion?
The fact that Hashori said to Liliya - "your people."
People...
That's right.
Predators HUNT "people", they truly don't care and don't try to justify it by saying "oh, they're just dumb animals but worthy prey," no, they flat out know we are intelligent and even are willing to call us "people". Most human murderers or even genocidal dictators place their victims as "subhuman" or "less", but Yautja don't do that, they flat out see us as intelligent and technological. Incursion notes that as we advanced further, the more they began to notice us (and so did other alien races apparently.)
Man, I love them! Lebbon really treats their mindset as very alien and amoral.
Quote from: SM on Aug 03, 2016, 12:56:58 PM
P 277-278
I checked Incursion for those pages and it's the bit when Wendigo and Shamana are attacking. On Page 278, Isa types in her translator "I know" and it speaks to Shamana in a series of growls and clicks. I see no mention of humans being able to speak their language with their vocal cords, just mechanical assistance as Hicks was saying.
And in Invasion, those pages are just a battle scene between Marines and Xenomorphs.
The idea of humans being physically unable to speak (most) their language makes sense to me, plus it makes them seem even more alien.
Quote from: Kaltes on Aug 03, 2016, 05:53:36 PM
The idea of humans being physically unable to speak (most) their language makes sense to me, plus it makes them seem even more alien.
Have you heard them speak in the AvP 2010 game during the Predator campaign? There's no freaking way I can replicate that lol. (I tried...)
I can sort of do the Elder's quote from Predator 2, but I probably butcher it.
Quote from: SM on Aug 01, 2016, 08:29:20 AM
If the Yautja in this aren't the Yautja - what are they?
Hish?
QuoteI checked Incursion for those pages and it's the bit when Wendigo and Shamana are attacking.
Different printings I guess.
In chapter 22 it says that no human could speak the language as well as Liliya. Not that humans can't speak it all.
Only concrete difference seems to be sexual dimorphism
I'm not even sure that rates.
Big Mama in DOTS doesn't have obvious breasts from memory. Nor does Hashori.
Perry has much larger females
Lebbon has indistinguishable genders, be it size, shape or otherwise
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 03, 2016, 07:29:00 AM
Who is supposed to be the ideal Yautja.
1. Not really, his attitude/idealism could be considered hide-bound or soft by his peers. His respect for other species might not be the Yautja "ideal". He could be the Yautja equivalent of Don Quixote for all we know, though no one could belittle his martial skills.
2. Even if it were the ideal, plenty of Yautja fail to meet that ideal...or don't even try
Again, Perry's Dachande =\= Perry's Yautja
I think it's implied that Dachande would be considered exceptional (or abnormal) for his race.
QuotePerry has much larger females
Lebbon has indistinguishable genders, be it size, shape or otherwise
Oh, right.
In regards to the female Predators, their appearance has been... inconsistent but also very scant. To date, we've only seen three notable females. Big Mama, Sister Midnight, and Hashori. So in my mind... I chalked it up to different body types, with Hashori and Big Mama being females with a masculine and butch build. There are human females who do have this body type, so why not Predators too?
Now in the case of Big Mama and Hashori, they're more or less indistinguishable from the males.. until closely examined anyway but if too close, you're probably already gonna be dead shortly. But what if they're just... two examples of one body type?
As for Sister Midnight, okay, so she isn't canon but... still, she's just one example of a female Predator we've seen none the less.
Maybe I'm clutching at straws. I don't know.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Aug 04, 2016, 06:46:03 AM
In regards to the female Predators, their appearance has been... inconsistent but also very scant. To date, we've only seen three notable females. Big Mama, Sister Midnight, and Hashori. So in my mind... I chalked it up to different body types, with Hashori and Big Mama being females with a masculine and butch build. There are human females who do have this body type, so why not Predators too?
Now in the case of Big Mama and Hashori, they're more or less indistinguishable from the males.. until closely examined anyway but if too close, you're probably already gonna be dead shortly. But what if they're just... two examples of one body type?
As for Sister Midnight, okay, so she isn't canon but... still, she's just one example of a female Predator we've seen none the less.
Maybe I'm clutching at straws. I don't know.
You have a point, there are human females that can easily be mistaken for males and trust me, I've seen some that really made me question their gender.
Liliya does this to Hashori, she only thinks Hashori is a lady, she's not entirely sure about it and does sometimes express her doubts.
Hashori's full name is a bit of a giveaway.
Quote from: SM on Aug 04, 2016, 08:47:54 PM
Hashori's full name is a bit of a giveaway.
What do you mean?
Are you referring to "Hashori of the Widow Clan"? Which I guess is a giveaway.
Yeah. It's not 'Widower Clan'.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Aug 04, 2016, 06:46:03 AM
In regards to the female Predators, their appearance has been... inconsistent but also very scant. To date, we've only seen three notable females. Big Mama, Sister Midnight, and Hashori. So in my mind... I chalked it up to different body types, with Hashori and Big Mama being females with a masculine and butch build. There are human females who do have this body type, so why not Predators too?
Now in the case of Big Mama and Hashori, they're more or less indistinguishable from the males.. until closely examined anyway but if too close, you're probably already gonna be dead shortly. But what if they're just... two examples of one body type?
As for Sister Midnight, okay, so she isn't canon but... still, she's just one example of a female Predator we've seen none the less.
Maybe I'm clutching at straws. I don't know.
Predator: South China Sea mentions a "young female" hunting very briefly, though her appearance is not described.
Quote from: Kaltes on Aug 04, 2016, 10:44:45 PM
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Aug 04, 2016, 06:46:03 AM
In regards to the female Predators, their appearance has been... inconsistent but also very scant. To date, we've only seen three notable females. Big Mama, Sister Midnight, and Hashori. So in my mind... I chalked it up to different body types, with Hashori and Big Mama being females with a masculine and butch build. There are human females who do have this body type, so why not Predators too?
Now in the case of Big Mama and Hashori, they're more or less indistinguishable from the males.. until closely examined anyway but if too close, you're probably already gonna be dead shortly. But what if they're just... two examples of one body type?
As for Sister Midnight, okay, so she isn't canon but... still, she's just one example of a female Predator we've seen none the less.
Maybe I'm clutching at straws. I don't know.
Predator: South China Sea mentions a "young female" hunting very briefly, though her appearance is not described.
According to Jeff VanderMeer in the "Ask Jeff" thread on this forum (you can find it in the Archives), he says that the females look like the males.
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Aug 04, 2016, 10:57:53 PM
Quote from: Kaltes on Aug 04, 2016, 10:44:45 PM
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Aug 04, 2016, 06:46:03 AM
In regards to the female Predators, their appearance has been... inconsistent but also very scant. To date, we've only seen three notable females. Big Mama, Sister Midnight, and Hashori. So in my mind... I chalked it up to different body types, with Hashori and Big Mama being females with a masculine and butch build. There are human females who do have this body type, so why not Predators too?
Now in the case of Big Mama and Hashori, they're more or less indistinguishable from the males.. until closely examined anyway but if too close, you're probably already gonna be dead shortly. But what if they're just... two examples of one body type?
As for Sister Midnight, okay, so she isn't canon but... still, she's just one example of a female Predator we've seen none the less.
Maybe I'm clutching at straws. I don't know.
Predator: South China Sea mentions a "young female" hunting very briefly, though her appearance is not described.
According to Jeff VanderMeer in the "Ask Jeff" thread on this forum (you can find it in the Archives), he says that the females look like the males.
Yes! It makes them more alien and less human if their sexes and genders are different. I always subscribed to the idea that Predator males and females look exactly the same, at least to us. No boobs or hips. No visible ding-dongs or vajayjays.
When it comes to breeding I imagine that the females "ovulate" a blob/goop of eggs in a safe mass of water (spawning pool), preferably with a rich PH value, lukewarm and with a lot of nutrients. Maybe the egg goop is fluorescent as well, just like Predator blood, but of a different color, to "attract" males, or at least pinpoint to males that there are fertile eggs in the spawning pool they are strolling by. Maybe the egg goop emits pheromones that "turn" males on for them to release a load of pred-spermies into the flourecent egg plasma? Or maybe Predators are cyclical and only get into breeding mode every decade or so?
When hatched/born, the Predator spawns "kill" and eat their unhatched siblings and consume the leftovers. As they mature they soon start to pick and peck on each other, hunting the smaller ones of their litter as well as other fauna in residing in their spawning pools. The larger and more developed they get the more of their amphibian features, traits and abilities they lose, until they are physically forced to leave pool and area they developed in. This is where and when the rest of Predator society (i.e. the clan, tribe or whatever) go from guarding and observing their young to taking care of them to teach them and mentor them.
Predator parents don't have any maternal or paternal bonds or feelings for their own offspring. They don't even know who their kids are. The clan, tribe or hunting party the Predator individual was brought up by is its family.
Anyhow. Just a thought.
So close to September, can't wait!
About 11 days left. Get hyped !
Aw hell yeah!
Tim Lebbon just teased some physical copies of the third book on his Facebook.
Still hate these stock photos but man am I looking forward to it!
I'm hearing we may get a Predator focused prequel in the Predator anthology too.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 31, 2016, 07:20:15 AMI'm hearing we may get a Predator focused prequel in the Predator anthology too.
Prequel to
Rage War, you mean?
Yep. Prequel to Rage Wars in the anthology.
Nice! Maybe we'll get a xenomorph-centric prequel in the Alien anthology.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 31, 2016, 09:46:55 AM
Yep. Prequel to Rage Wars in the anthology.
Hicks, please, I can only handle so much excitement before my chest bursts! ;D
*Starts spasming like Kane*
Just finished Alien Invasion and all I have to say is...
Spoiler
JOHNNY MAINS!?!?!
Great reads. Can't wait for part 3.
Quote from: R Lar on Sep 03, 2016, 04:16:51 AM
Just finished Alien Invasion and all I have to say is...
Spoiler
JOHNNY MAINS!?!?!
Great reads. Can't wait for part 3.
I know the feels man...
To be fair, I was surprised he
Spoiler
made it into the second book at all. :laugh: I'm hoping he is actually dead for Armageddon!
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 05, 2016, 08:35:24 AM
To be fair, I was surprised he Spoiler
made it into the second book at all. :laugh: I'm hoping he is actually dead for Armageddon!
And then Blomkamp will write a book in between Invasion and Armageddon reviving them two as older characters. :laugh:
No miracles this time. Besides it allows us get to see how badass a certain female character in uniform can be
perching
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Sep 05, 2016, 03:21:23 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 05, 2016, 08:35:24 AM
To be fair, I was surprised he Spoiler
made it into the second book at all. :laugh: I'm hoping he is actually dead for Armageddon!
And then Blomkamp will write a book in between Invasion and Armageddon reviving them two as older characters. :laugh:
JUSTCE FOR MAINS AND LIEDER!!!!! :laugh:
Quote from: Ultramorph on Sep 05, 2016, 03:55:30 PM
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Sep 05, 2016, 03:21:23 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 05, 2016, 08:35:24 AM
To be fair, I was surprised he Spoiler
made it into the second book at all. :laugh: I'm hoping he is actually dead for Armageddon!
JUSTCE FOR MAINS AND LIEDER!!!!! :laugh:
And then Blomkamp will write a book in between Invasion and Armageddon reviving them two as older characters. :laugh:
I am actually scared for Hashori, Liliya, Isa Palant and Elder Kalakta... I know Lebbon warned us not to get too attached, but damn... :'(
They might be okay. It is the soldiers who always die in that universe and stories
perching
Quote from: j0w on Sep 05, 2016, 05:46:17 PM
They might be okay. It is the soldiers who always die in that universe and stories
perching
Spoiler
Mcllveen wasn't a soldier.
:P
But those characters are in dangerous situations and already with soldiers (such as Palant.) Liliya and Hashori are headed straight for Weyland-Yutani which doesn't really bode well for them.
The safest one is probably Elder Kalakta as we haven't had an Elder die yet in the franchise.
If you have iTunes, there's a sample now available in the iBooks app! Looking at the table of contents
Spoiler
I can confirm that Mains appears to be well and truly dead. The only new name I'm seeing is Major Sergei Budanov.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/alien-vs.-predator-armageddon/id1137435004?mt=11 (https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/alien-vs.-predator-armageddon/id1137435004?mt=11)
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Sep 05, 2016, 06:57:18 PM
Quote from: j0w on Sep 05, 2016, 05:46:17 PM
They might be okay. It is the soldiers who always die in that universe and stories
perching
Spoiler
Mcllveen wasn't a soldier.
But those characters are in dangerous situations and already with soldiers (such as Palant.) Liliya and Hashori are headed straight for Weyland-Yutani which doesn't really bode well for them.
The safest one is probably Elder Kalakta as we haven't had an Elder die yet in the franchise.
Pallant has some scary minders, human or otherwise so she is fine
perching
Here's a Google Books sample for AvP Armageddon.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=vsLLDAAAQBAJ&pg=PT35&lpg=PT35&dq=alien+vs+predator+armageddon+sample&source=bl&ots=CLkwCcnbzT&sig=YSdK3ta4RPhoQnlYDn24LM5bwMU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjLnLmOwoDPAhVfF8AKHXiVBLkQ6AEIQzAM#v=onepage&q=alien%20vs%20predator%20armageddon%20sample&f=false
Wow... the Predators are such freaking badasses in this! So much ass is being kicked in the first chapter alone!
The preview also confirms that
Spoiler
Yautja borrow technology from other civilizations and adapt it into their own while also making their own things too. Isa Palant finds lots of familiar looking features inside the Yautja research station and in the lab itself this is where it's confirmed. One Yautja is seen carrying an old Marine Pulse Rifle trophy.
We also hear another Yautja named
Spoiler
"Yaquita" who has no legs (likely due to being wounded) and sits on a mechanical wheelchair that eschews hover technology, has one mechanical eye that makes whirring noises as it moves, has long dreadlocks that trail across the floor and is a scientist who is fascinated with her experiments.
We also learn of a new alien creature called a
Spoiler
Fire Spite which can bite a human's head off in one sweep, the teeth leak fire and it is possibly a space borne creature. Humans only encountered them three times so far, so rarely that even Palant had no idea they existed. The Fire Spite is located in the Yautja lab, being held in a suspension field and experimented on.
It is interesting from what I have gathered above, we see Lebbon's Yautja are pretty much
Spoiler
a blend of Yautja and Hish-qu-Ten. Like the Hish, they steal tech but also come up with their own, like the Yautja they are warriors but also like the Hish they are sadistic and it's hard to tell the genders apart.
One thing I noticed according to some online sources, Yautja in older fictions treated their invalids like utter crap, they were called the "untouchables." I don't know much about it.
But here, looking at Yaquita who seems quite happy with herself, it seems like invalids and disabled Predators are given other roles to fulfil. Palant speculates Yaquita is either old and worn, or young and wounded, either way Yaquita is a brilliant scientist so the clan lets her do research for them. This reminds me of when Shane Black mentioned possibly showing us other Predators besides just hunters.
That all sounds awesome! Looks like the trilogy will finish strong. Now all we need is
Spoiler
an oblique reference to Ahab, like the one we got to Predator 2 in the first book. Maybe a reference to legends about one or two Predators who coexisted with humans for extended periods because of circumstances.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Sep 08, 2016, 11:26:57 PM
That all sounds awesome! Looks like the trilogy will finish strong. Now all we need is Spoiler
an oblique reference to Ahab, like the one we got to Predator 2 in the first book. Maybe a reference to legends about one or two Predators who coexisted with humans for extended periods because of circumstances.
The amount of ass kicking the Predators did to the Rage in space will make HappyPred... happy! ;D He did have a problem with how nerfed they seemed so the third book finally brings out their inner ass kickery.
I hope we get more reference to the Dog-Aliens or Arcturians or any other intelligent species! Imagine the novel ends with the Marines all headed to Arcturus for some well deserved Arcturian Poontang after such a hard war has raged...
Spoiler
The Predators took down Rommel at LV-1657 and did most of the heavy lifting capturing the general of the Cooper-Jordan.
Not bad for an Aliens title.
I'm hoping the book ends with
Spoiler
it turning out the Faze was behind it all, weakening the humans so the dog-aliens could invade.
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Sep 08, 2016, 07:37:29 PM
It is interesting from what I have gathered above, we see Lebbon's Yautja are pretty muchSpoiler
a blend of Yautja and Hish-qu-Ten. Like the Hish, they steal tech but also come up with their own, like the Yautja they are warriors but also like the Hish they are sadistic and it's hard to tell the genders apart.
I'm alright with that interpretation.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Sep 09, 2016, 12:51:33 AM
I'm hoping the book ends with Spoiler
it turning out the Faze was behind it all, weakening the humans so the dog-aliens could invade.
Can you imagine that's the case? And it will go back to the original concept of the Rage having meant to have been aliens in the first place before Lebbon made them rogue humans.
Or even better
Spoiler
the Rage WIN, but the book ends with the Engineers approaching the Human Sphere for a reckoning. That would be a dark ending!
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Sep 08, 2016, 07:37:29 PM
It is interesting from what I have gathered above, we see Lebbon's Yautja are pretty muchSpoiler
a blend of Yautja and Hish-qu-Ten. Like the Hish, they steal tech but also come up with their own, like the Yautja they are warriors but also like the Hish they are sadistic and it's hard to tell the genders apart.
As long as there is no damn kill-glands or gender switching then fine.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Sep 09, 2016, 01:29:51 AM
Or even better Spoiler
the Rage WIN, but the book ends with the Engineers approaching the Human Sphere for a reckoning. That would be a dark ending!
That would indeed be a dark ending!
I also loved the bit in the preview where the Marines borrow
Spoiler
Palant's translator to go to the Yautja food replicators and make orders. They get some different results than what they expected, but still find it edible, especially one Marine who seems to really enjoy it LOL!
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Sep 09, 2016, 12:37:58 AM
The amount of ass kicking the Predators did to the Rage in space will make HappyPred... happy!
My real issue is Lebbon's bland prose...but yes, I also do feel that the Yautja "infantry" are too weak and low tech compared to marines
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Sep 09, 2016, 12:37:58 AM
Quote from: Ultramorph on Sep 08, 2016, 11:26:57 PM
That all sounds awesome! Looks like the trilogy will finish strong. Now all we need is Spoiler
an oblique reference to Ahab, like the one we got to Predator 2 in the first book. Maybe a reference to legends about one or two Predators who coexisted with humans for extended periods because of circumstances.
The amount of ass kicking the Predators did to the Rage in space will make HappyPred... happy! ;D He did have a problem with how nerfed they seemed so the third book finally brings out their inner ass kickery.
I hope we get more reference to the Dog-Aliens or Arcturians or any other intelligent species! Imagine the novel ends with the Marines all headed to Arcturus for some well deserved Arcturian Poontang after such a hard war has raged...
Makes me happy. I've always wondered what they'd do when it came to straight fights not hunts or if they had real soldiers somewhere among them. I get my answers and fun with this trilogy..
perching
Quote from: j0w on Sep 09, 2016, 08:19:15 AM
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Sep 09, 2016, 12:37:58 AM
Quote from: Ultramorph on Sep 08, 2016, 11:26:57 PM
That all sounds awesome! Looks like the trilogy will finish strong. Now all we need is Spoiler
an oblique reference to Ahab, like the one we got to Predator 2 in the first book. Maybe a reference to legends about one or two Predators who coexisted with humans for extended periods because of circumstances.
The amount of ass kicking the Predators did to the Rage in space will make HappyPred... happy! ;D He did have a problem with how nerfed they seemed so the third book finally brings out their inner ass kickery.
I hope we get more reference to the Dog-Aliens or Arcturians or any other intelligent species! Imagine the novel ends with the Marines all headed to Arcturus for some well deserved Arcturian Poontang after such a hard war has raged...
Makes me happy. I've always wondered what they'd do when it came to straight fights not hunts or if they had real soldiers somewhere among them. I get my answers and fun with this trilogy..
perching
So they have a military after all? Cool.
Quote from: Kaltes on Sep 09, 2016, 02:22:27 PM
Quote from: j0w on Sep 09, 2016, 08:19:15 AM
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Sep 09, 2016, 12:37:58 AM
Quote from: Ultramorph on Sep 08, 2016, 11:26:57 PM
That all sounds awesome! Looks like the trilogy will finish strong. Now all we need is Spoiler
an oblique reference to Ahab, like the one we got to Predator 2 in the first book. Maybe a reference to legends about one or two Predators who coexisted with humans for extended periods because of circumstances.
The amount of ass kicking the Predators did to the Rage in space will make HappyPred... happy! ;D He did have a problem with how nerfed they seemed so the third book finally brings out their inner ass kickery.
I hope we get more reference to the Dog-Aliens or Arcturians or any other intelligent species! Imagine the novel ends with the Marines all headed to Arcturus for some well deserved Arcturian Poontang after such a hard war has raged...
Makes me happy. I've always wondered what they'd do when it came to straight fights not hunts or if they had real soldiers somewhere among them. I get my answers and fun with this trilogy..
perching
So they have a military after all? Cool.
Sort of, it's not like what you'd expect with thousands of Yautja marching towards battle or anything.
Just a few of them again, only bringing ships with bigger guns. In that preview I posted, you see a cool space battle.
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Sep 09, 2016, 04:58:41 PM
Sort of, it's not like what you'd expect with thousands of Yautja marching towards battle or anything.
Never expected it to be, but I can still dream. XD
Less than a week remains! Has anyone got theirs early?
My review copy should have shipped today or will be shipped tomorrow.
Tuesday can't come soon enough! I haven't found any advance reviews yet, which I guess is good. Wouldn't want the ending spoiled.
It's Tuesday! ;D
Picked up my review copy last night. Read about 120 pages or so and am enjoying. Same tone and feeling as all the others as expected. They introduced a question which stopped me from going to bed but I've not got the answer yet.
Glad this trilogy is over, tbh. I've tried reading the first book a couple of times and couldn't get into it. That's not a reflection on the writer, just not my thing. Ah well... Each to their own. Looking forward to Bug Hunt.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 27, 2016, 07:22:19 AM
Picked up my review copy last night. Read about 120 pages or so and am enjoying. Same tone and feeling as all the others as expected. They introduced a question which stopped me from going to bed but I've not got the answer yet.
What's the question? :P
Thumbing though, saw something about
Spoiler
"the will of the Drukathi." Have the dog-aliens finally been given a name?
Quote from: Ultramorph on Sep 27, 2016, 06:52:09 PM
Thumbing though, saw something about Spoiler
"the will of the Drukathi." Have the dog-aliens finally been given a name?
*Spasming*
*Spasms intensify*
*Eye twitch*
OMG.............
YES....................
I CAN'T WAIT TO GET THIS......................
Thumbing around the 135 page mark
Spoiler
the Drukathi have a long history with the Predators, but have "moved on" to another galaxy.
Also, I read how the book ends. I won't put that, not even in spoiler tags. ;)
Quote from: Ultramorph on Sep 28, 2016, 03:29:24 AM
Thumbing around the 135 page mark Spoiler
the Drukathi have a long history with the Predators, but have "moved on" to another galaxy.
Also, I read how the book ends. I won't put that, not even in spoiler tags. ;)
I just revived a very old topic of mine about other alien races, to talk about "them." :P
I can't wait to get the freakin' book! Hurry up Amazon! :laugh:
Quote from: Ultramorph on Sep 28, 2016, 03:29:24 AM
Thumbing around the 135 page mark Spoiler
the Drukathi have a long history with the Predators, but have "moved on" to another galaxy.
Precisely in what way?
Quote from: Ultramorph on Sep 27, 2016, 06:52:09 PM
Thumbing though, saw something about Spoiler
"the will of the Drukathi." Have the dog-aliens finally been given a name?
Spoiler
I don't believe so. They're some other kind of race, responsible for the creation (and maybe the control) of the Faze. I suspect they be the Jockeys.
About 230 pages in now.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 28, 2016, 08:39:36 AM
Quote from: Ultramorph on Sep 27, 2016, 06:52:09 PM
Thumbing though, saw something about Spoiler
"the will of the Drukathi." Have the dog-aliens finally been given a name?
Spoiler
I don't believe so. They're some other kind of race, responsible for the creation (and maybe the control) of the Faze. I suspect they be the Jockeys.
About 230 pages in now.
I'm actually starting to think the same thing.
Yeah
Spoiler
I think the implication is that the Engineers are behind the whole thing to keep humans from getting too advanced.
Ultramorph and Hicks...
Spoiler
What if the Engineers did this to the Dog-Aliens? Notice how on LV-178 and Midsummer, the place was crawling with Aliens? I mean, if the Dog-Aliens were the "Drukathi", then they'd pretty much be way too powerful to just simply be destroyed by Aliens.
I mean, in Fire and Stone, a single Engineer decimates an ass load of aliens and makes mountains out of their body piles.
One thing I find odd is that Yautja knew of the Drukathi but not the Engineers, maybe this does go to that theory of them not being the same thing. The Dog-Aliens in LV-178 did not come off as some hyper-advanced fearful race, but merely a panicked race trying to desperately deal with a catastrophe. Maybe the "Faze" is what the Jockeys "let" the Dog-Aliens discover... because see how there's no Faze on LV-178?
The Dog-Aliens were becoming too advanced, and so they were decimated from within.
But what puzzles me, is that Elder Kalakta says that maybe it's NOT the Rage who the Drukathi consider too advanced, could he be talking of us? Or of Yautja themselves? Kalakta also mentioned Yautja never saw a reason to go after them, and yet Ahab hunted Engineers. Maybe by "after them" he meant war. Or maybe Engineers are a different thing to the Jockeys.
I just finished reading the trilogy, I'm probably in the minority here but I think this is perhaps the worst thing to happen to this franchise since Alien 3.
I thought people hated the idea of Predators teaming with humans, hence the hate for the 1st AVP movie yet the publisher decided an entire trilogy constituting a friendship would be a good idea? Also, the Aliens are supposed to be pure killing machines
unable to be controlled yet even that simple fact about their nature was abandoned to fit the "Rage" story.
I also noticed that there plenty of other continuity mistakes as well. In the first Alien movie, the crew don't use guns for fear that the acid blood will eat through the ship's hull yet the characters in Armageddon have no problem killing Aliens on a ship smaller than the Nostromo. Furthermore, the Marines in the story are quite reliant on using thermal imaging when fighting the Aliens when the 2nd film made it quite clear that they don't show up on thermal at all (look at Dietrich's death).
Also...
Spoiler
I felt Armageddon had perhaps the most useless ending I ever read, though maybe I'm missing the theme behind it.
I'm waiting for the delivery of my third novel (Amazon are being dicks about it all) but I have to agree with PredXeno and admit that the first two novels weren't all that I was hoping, either. From the sounds of it the third isn't going to offer any solace to that...
Quote from: Everlasting Undead on Oct 02, 2016, 03:04:03 PM
I'm waiting for the delivery of my third novel (Amazon are being dicks about it all) but I have to agree with PredXeno and admit that the first two novels weren't all that I was hoping, either. From the sounds of it the third isn't going to offer any solace to that...
SAME! It's really starting to piss me off.
What was the point of even pre-ordering the bloody thing?
What's going on, guys? I preordered my copy last week and it came right on time. I live in the US tho, you guys live in the UK?
Mine was pre-ordered a week before the release date. I tried going to Waterstones to pre-order it like I pre-ordered the first two from there with no problems. They said they couldn't get the third book "because it's not published in the UK" and told me to go get it online.
What's the point of publishing the first two books in a trilogy and not a third? That's so illogical.
Predxeno...I think Lebbon's prose is stylistically quite awful, but his ideas are OK
I've been slow starting this one with work, but I'm 50 pages in now. Liking it quite a bit.
Spoiler
NECA needs to get on a Yaquita figure! I like the different alien samples the Preds have, including the bio-mechanical arm. Reminds me of the NECA bio about the one who hunts non-organic life.
Quote from: happypred on Oct 02, 2016, 04:37:15 PM
Predxeno...I think Lebbon's prose is stylistically quite awful, but his ideas are OK
I think his ideas could be great, but the ones in Rage War are just not fit for the AVP series; he took a series about Aliens and Predators and then warped it so that it focused on a brand new enemy that I imagine few people actually care for. Tim Lebbon is a great author, Out of the Shadows proved that, but he just went completely in the wrong direction with Rage War; and in the process, he stepped over everything that made the two monsters great. If The Rage War was a movie series, then AVPR would no longer be the most hated movie of all time, rather it would stand alongside redeemed sequels like Alien 3, Alien: Resurrection, and Predator 2.
Considering however that The Rage War was a followup to the also terrible Sea of Sorrows and that some of Lebbon's original ideas were thrown out, The Rage War was probably doomed from the start.
Quote from: happypred on Oct 02, 2016, 04:37:15 PM
Predxeno...I think Lebbon's prose is stylistically quite awful, but his ideas are OK
What do you mean by that?
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 02, 2016, 05:22:27 PM
Quote from: happypred on Oct 02, 2016, 04:37:15 PM
Predxeno...I think Lebbon's prose is stylistically quite awful, but his ideas are OK
I think his ideas could be great, but the ones in Rage War are just not fit for the AVP series; he took a series about Aliens and Predators and then warped it so that it focused on a brand new enemy that I imagine few people actually care for. Tim Lebbon is a great author, Out of the Shadows proved that, but he just went completely in the wrong direction with Rage War; and in the process, he stepped over everything that made the two monsters great. If The Rage War was a movie series, then AVPR would no longer be the most hated movie of all time, rather it would stand alongside redeemed sequels like Alien 3, Alien: Resurrection, and Predator 2.
Considering however that The Rage War was a followup to the also terrible Sea of Sorrows and that some of Lebbon's original ideas were thrown out, The Rage War was probably doomed from the start.
I really enjoyed the Rage, I thought they were something refreshing for this series. I thought he went into the right direction with this trilogy, it was something new and unique as far as AvP is concerned. It went far ahead into the timeline than any previous works and created an entire new world. We see how humans technologically progress as well as see just how rough space still is even in the far future. Lebbon really respects the vastness of our galaxy, unlike most other sci fi. He also really explores how this affects our species, how some people suffer space sickness and such. He is all about world building which explored the entirety of humanity here rather than just isolated incidents here and there like the other stories set on colonies or space ships etc.
I think you are really over exaggerating by saying if this were a movie, it'd be considered the worst thing in the series. i couldn't disagree more, I get it, you really hate this series but that doesn't mean it'd suck if it were made into a film trilogy. I'm not saying it'd be the best thing, but it certainly wouldn't be the worst... unless the director were to royally f**k it up.
The monsters were still great, the Predators are still menacing. Just mentioning their name makes human colonists utterly shit themselves. Sure, in Incursion they may have been beaten by Marines during encounters, but they still took some down with them. You try avoiding target seeking nano-swarms in open spaces. :)
But the Yautja are still treated as ahead, in Invasion we see how they can be a threat to the advanced Rage once the Predators arrive to assist the faltering Marines. And from the previews I've read for the third book, they seem to kick even more ass, both in space and on foot while the Colonial Marines and humanity in general are becoming toast to the Rage at an alarming rate causing Weyland-Yutani to
Spoiler
consider the most desperate apocalyptic solutions for the Human Sphere.
The Aliens are also a huge threat, so what if they're controlled? That's the whole point of controlling them, because they're the galaxy's deadliest organism and you'd rather have them on your side. It's not like humans created a device to control them or something, they simply found alien tech and that made it more believable, for all we know, that could be Space Jockey tech (so they're still uncontrollable by us, as you pointed out earlier. Lebbon didn't screw this up, no, he reiterates it through Weyland-Yutani's admissions of their failed attempts to control Xenomorphs and why they are so interested in getting the Rage's tech to begin with.) I think this series made both monsters even greater.
I had no problem with Predators teaming up with humans, I thought that to see this on a larger scale was quite new and unique. Especially seeing us actually negotiate with them for once. They're still mysterious and inscrutable, there's still so much that they're ahead of us in, we may feel like we're "monitoring" them, but they're doing the same to us only better. They still have really mysterious alien technology beyond us even in 2692 AD.
I liked that this was an actual war, it starts off with the usual hunt cycle that 99% of other Predator stories are composed of, but then it goes into completely new territory. And the Aliens for once are a controlled army rather than just another infestation or solo incursion here and there like the other 99% Alien stories out there.
I'm sorry you didn't like the new direction man. Not everyone likes change, especially in their favourite franchises and that's quite understandable.
Well, I certainly appreciate your perspective. As an Alien fan tho, I feel it's insulting to turn them into another species' whipped dog. Whenever the humans have conquered the Aliens in the comics or games, the Aliens have always found a way to resist. I thought this could have been an excellent opportunity for Lennon to introduce a xenomorph protagonist who was free from Rage control (we already have human and Predator protagonists), but not even the Alien Queen herself (the only non-slaved Alien in the plot) was made into a creature of resistance in the story.
Spoiler
Alexander gets wrecked, grafts xenos parts onto himself, and hijacks a Predator ship to follow Liliya. You can't say Lebbon lost creative steam in the last book!
Another interesting bit of world-building I noticed
Spoiler
Palant mentions when she's examining Oscar that she's seen androids before, like it's not common. We also haven't seen any non-Rage synthetics in this trilogy. Nothing huge, but it seems to confirm that synthetics are fairly rare post-Resurrection and the whole getting and then losing civil rights thing.
That's something I've noticed actually.
Even in Sea of Sorrows,
Spoiler
there's not much mention on Synthetics.
But Alien Invasion does mention Synthetics, I think one of the characters refers to how Combat Androids aren't "like those delicate things designed to look, smell and feel like humans."
I think it's mentioned when one of the Colonial Marines remembers Weyland-Yutani making Combat Androids and used similar swarm tactics to the Rage's Xenomorphs. The Androids were simple and easily destroyed, cheaply made too. But they abandoned this tactic because it wasn't that effective and used up a lot of resources.
Maybe they're more regulated. I have yet to read the third book lol. Hurry up, Amazon!
By the way, notice how Liliya is
Spoiler
the most human Synthetic? I don't think she's an Artificial Intelligence, I think she's a genuine Artificial Consciousness. She's fully self aware. Maybe Call was too.
Unlike David, Ash or Bishop.
I think it's safe to say that Liliya is truly a person and not an object. Maybe that's why there's not many Synthetics, not just due to the rebellion, but also the moral questioning. Maybe people protested? Maybe this was considered actual slavery once machines became people?
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 02, 2016, 05:22:27 PM
I think his ideas could be great, but the ones in Rage War are just not fit for the AVP series; he took a series about Aliens and Predators and then warped it so that it focused on a brand new enemy that I imagine few people actually care for. Tim Lebbon is a great author, Out of the Shadows proved that, but he just went completely in the wrong direction with Rage War; and in the process, he stepped over everything that made the two monsters great. If The Rage War was a movie series, then AVPR would no longer be the most hated movie of all time, rather it would stand alongside redeemed sequels like Alien 3, Alien: Resurrection, and Predator 2.
Considering however that The Rage War was a followup to the also terrible Sea of Sorrows and that some of Lebbon's original ideas were thrown out, The Rage War was probably doomed from the start.
I know our opinions rarely align, PZ, but I can't disagree with you more. The Rage is what sold me on this trilogy. They're fascinating and make a refreshing change to all the other Alien novels and comics. And that's what The Rage War really is - it's a completely new feel for the series. Not everyone is going to like it - obviously - but I'm digging it, especially as I'm becoming quite fond of other novels that have a similiar style to this.
I know I keep repeating myself with this description, but I consider The Rage War to be a soft hard-scifi. It's not quite as detailed and dry as some hard-scifi but it's taking that approach. The bigger scope of the narrative also means some of the detail is left out and we get some barely developed characters, but it's more about the story itself and I'm loving that.
We're not getting repeats of the same two or three stories, we're getting something brand new and galaxy-wide. There is just so much world-building going on and I love it.
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 02, 2016, 10:37:31 PM
Well, I certainly appreciate your perspective. As an Alien fan tho, I feel it's insulting to turn them into another species' whipped dog.
Considering how the Aliens are generally presented in the EU, I'm glad someone actually has a legitimate reason to be able to control them (technology from those who actually created them, I surmise!) and use them as they do.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 03, 2016, 07:43:58 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 02, 2016, 05:22:27 PM
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 02, 2016, 10:37:31 PM
Well, I certainly appreciate your perspective. As an Alien fan tho, I feel it's insulting to turn them into another species' whipped dog.
Considering how the Aliens are generally presented in the EU, I'm glad someone actually has a legitimate reason to be able to control them (technology from those who actually created them, I surmise!) and use them as they do.
Well, I see the Aliens as characters unto themselves rather than plot devices to create new dangers for the protagonists; as I said earlier, having a hero xenomorph in the story whose goal was to free the rest of the hive from the Rage's control would have the story much more endearing to the AVP brand especially since we seem to be getting excess human and Yautja protagonists everywhere.
Many of Lebbon's ideas felt corny and rather fantastical for an AVP story; mind-controlled humans driven to commit terrorist acts against their will, a mad woman who wants to rule the galaxy, and a Faze that is rather conveniently found that upgrades all tech for the Rage free-of-charge (just to give the antagonists their technological superiority in the plot). Also, as I said earlier, there are a lot of continuity and logical discrepancies in this story that make those of previous films look like child's play so that didn't help my impression either.
I think Lebbon fails to capture the essence of the "Yautja" (or the xenomorphs)
QuoteMany of Lebbon's ideas felt corny and rather fantastical for an AVP story; mind-controlled humans driven to commit terrorist acts against their will, a mad woman who wants to rule the galaxy, and a Faze that is rather conveniently found that upgrades all tech for the Rage free-of-charge (just to give the antagonists their technological superiority in the plot). Also, as I said earlier, there are a lot of continuity and logical discrepancies in this story that make those of previous films look like child's play so that didn't help my impression either.
I don't particularly want to go through your points one by one as you've made your mind up but I really don't think it's deserving of leaving these comments just out there...I'm still 20 pages off finishing but the Faze is doing it "free-of-charge", it is
Spoiler
helping them to manipulate the Rage into crippling humanity, to suit its creator's agenda.
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 02, 2016, 06:39:55 AM
I thought people hated the idea of Predators teaming with humans, hence the hate for the 1st AVP movie yet the publisher decided an entire trilogy constituting a friendship would be a good idea?
It wasn't liked because it was undeserved. Ohh, lookie, Lex accidently killed an Alien and that earned her Scar's respect. It was forced in the film. It wasn't in the comic. It wasn't in Rage War.
QuoteAlso, the Aliens are supposed to be pure killing machines unable to be controlled yet even that simple fact about their nature was abandoned to fit the "Rage" story.
The attempts to do so are a recurring theme. The fact that someone was able to is what helps elevate the threat of the Rage. And it wasn't some just willy-nilly control, it was alien technology, aliens that are likely
Spoiler
the very creators of the Aliens themselves.
QuoteI also noticed that there plenty of other continuity mistakes as well. In the first Alien movie, the crew don't use guns for fear that the acid blood will eat through the ship's hull yet the characters in Armageddon have no problem killing Aliens on a ship smaller than the Nostromo.
It's less of an issue when the characters have their own spacesuits and they do actually abandon the ship due to the acid damage.
QuoteFurthermore, the Marines in the story are quite reliant on using thermal imaging when fighting the Aliens when the 2nd film made it quite clear that they don't show up on thermal at all (look at Dietrich's death).
This maybe my memory but I don't recall them being overly reliant on using thermals against the Aliens so I'll have to give you this one.
Quote from: happypred on Oct 03, 2016, 11:57:02 AM
I think Lebbon fails to capture the essence of the "Yautja" (or the xenomorphs)
They're not Yautja. They're Predators. I really hate Lebbon used that name.
Quote from: happypred on Oct 03, 2016, 11:57:02 AM
I think Lebbon fails to capture the essence of the "Yautja" (or the xenomorphs)
Lebbon's Yautja are not the same as Perry's Yautja. And I think he captured their essence perfectly, they still have an honour system and aren't all Hish like.
It's something constantly stressed in the books that they've got rules similar to how Perry's have strict rules too.
In the first book, they use nanovibronic blades (remember nanovibronic disks from AvP Extinction?), and Hashori commits torture upon Liliya for her group's attacks on Yautja ("Torture Ritual" from Extinction again? This happened to Dr. Kadinsky.)
I liked that Lebbon added some of these small nods that aren't present in most other Predator lore, he brought back some concepts from an old game. I don't know if anyone else noticed those.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 03, 2016, 12:15:27 PM
QuoteMany of Lebbon's ideas felt corny and rather fantastical for an AVP story; mind-controlled humans driven to commit terrorist acts against their will, a mad woman who wants to rule the galaxy, and a Faze that is rather conveniently found that upgrades all tech for the Rage free-of-charge (just to give the antagonists their technological superiority in the plot). Also, as I said earlier, there are a lot of continuity and logical discrepancies in this story that make those of previous films look like child's play so that didn't help my impression either.
I don't particularly want to go through your points one by one as you've made your mind up but I really don't think it's deserving of leaving these comments just out there...I'm still 20 pages off finishing but the Faze is doing it "free-of-charge", it is
Spoiler
helping them to manipulate the Rage into crippling humanity, to suit its creator's agenda.
Yes, I know, however this isn't actually
Spoiler
proven in the story, only theorized.
It's like in the Female War novelization where the Aliens are theorized by the main characters to be bio-weapons rather than natural organisms; it's an interesting idea however since nothing ever became of that idea, it is pretty much meaningless in the context of the plot. I felt the ending would have been much more effective had the Faze played a more proactive role in the story than a wandering object, but in the end
Spoiler
the Rage were still the primary baddies and the ending didn't reflect the Faze's intentions at all, rather only an unfortunate series of circumstances.
QuoteThe attempts to do so are a recurring theme. The fact that someone was able to is what helps elevate the threat of the Rage. And it wasn't some just willy-nilly control, it was alien technology, aliens that are likely
Spoiler
the very creators of the Aliens themselves.
I don't really give that much credence, rumors of what you hid in that spoiler tag were prevalent in Aliens: Steel Egg and even then nothing was actually proven therefore it didn't really matter at all.
QuoteIt's less of an issue when the characters have their own spacesuits and they do actually abandon the ship due to the acid damage.
That's somewhat a fair point however when you're saving the galaxy, a crippled car is definitely a good way to kill everyone. :-\
QuoteIn the first book, they use nanovibronic blades (remember nanovibronic disks from AvP Extinction?), and Hashori commits torture upon Liliya for her group's attacks on Yautja ("Torture Ritual" from Extinction again? This happened to Dr. Kadinsky.)
I liked that Lebbon added some of these small nods that aren't present in most other Predator lore, he brought back some concepts from an old game. I don't know if anyone else noticed those.
You're assuming that this is all by design, of course, rather than coincidence as is so often the case.
Fair enough about the torture thing maybe being coincidental to the Torture Ritual.
But how is "Nanovibronic" coincidental? It's a word only seen in AvP Extinction. So Lebbon probably researched Predators a bit and came across that word and added it. The Nanovibronc Disk is an upgrade for the Disk Master in Extinction. In Incursion, the Yautja used "Nanovibronic blades", it's been a while since I read the book but I think it referred to wrist blades and spear tips as well.
Maybe Tim played AvP: Evolution (http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Poli_Nanovibronic_Disc)
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 04, 2016, 12:34:31 AM
Yes, I know, however this isn't actually Spoiler
proven in the story, only theorized.
Spoiler
the Rage were still the primary baddies and the ending didn't reflect the Faze's intentions at all, rather only an unfortunate series of circumstances.
Granted - it's only a theory but it's given a lot of credence within the story. As for the ending, again, I disagree -
Spoiler
if we take that theory at face value, that the Faze/Drukathi want to de-stabilize humanity, mission is well and truly accomplished. That is exactly what the end results in.
QuoteI don't really give that much credence, rumors of what you hid in that spoiler tag were prevalent in Aliens: Steel Egg and even then nothing was actually proven therefore it didn't really matter at all.
Of course it matters. It goes to further substantiate why the Faze would be able to provide the means to control the Aliens. I don't recall that being an issue in Steel Egg.
Again, supposition on my part, but with it seeming to be where Covenant and Ridley is going it seems quite likely that it was the intent the Jockeys are the Drukathi and they created the Aliens. I'll be sure to ask Tim Lebbon about it when we catch up.
Quote
That's somewhat a fair point however when you're saving the galaxy, a crippled car is definitely a good way to kill everyone. :-\
Of course you don't want a broken spaceship but needs must. They don't really have any other method to save themselves.
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Oct 03, 2016, 03:30:59 PM
Quote from: happypred on Oct 03, 2016, 11:57:02 AM
I think Lebbon fails to capture the essence of the "Yautja" (or the xenomorphs)
In the first book, they use nanovibronic blades (remember nanovibronic disks from AvP Extinction?)
Where is this mentioned in Incursion? I read Incursion...but don't recall that
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 04, 2016, 07:28:39 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 04, 2016, 12:34:31 AM
Yes, I know, however this isn't actually Spoiler
proven in the story, only theorized.
Spoiler
the Rage were still the primary baddies and the ending didn't reflect the Faze's intentions at all, rather only an unfortunate series of circumstances.
Granted - it's only a theory but it's given a lot of credence within the story. As for the ending, again, I disagree - Spoiler
if we take that theory at face value, that the Faze/Drukathi want to de-stabilize humanity, mission is well and truly accomplished. That is exactly what the end results in.
QuoteI don't really give that much credence, rumors of what you hid in that spoiler tag were prevalent in Aliens: Steel Egg and even then nothing was actually proven therefore it didn't really matter at all.
Of course it matters. It goes to further substantiate why the Faze would be able to provide the means to control the Aliens. I don't recall that being an issue in Steel Egg.
Again, supposition on my part, but with it seeming to be where Covenant and Ridley is going it seems quite likely that it was the intent the Jockeys are the Drukathi and they created the Aliens. I'll be sure to ask Tim Lebbon about it when we catch up.
Yeah, see if you can find out if the Drukathi are actually the Engineers, I didn't think they were when I read the books tho I had some suspicions. As for the ending...
Spoiler
It just wasn't done that well, the Drukathi weren't mentioned that much to make the payout at the end worth it. As I said before, the Rage were still the primary baddies (whose goals are nothing like the Drukathi's) and the whole twist was the result of nothing more than an embarrassing lack of communication/understanding on the characters' part than a legitimate arc/plan to de-evolve the human race.
Quote from: happypred on Oct 04, 2016, 10:55:52 AM
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Oct 03, 2016, 03:30:59 PM
Quote from: happypred on Oct 03, 2016, 11:57:02 AM
I think Lebbon fails to capture the essence of the "Yautja" (or the xenomorphs)
In the first book, they use nanovibronic blades (remember nanovibronic disks from AvP Extinction?)
Where is this mentioned in Incursion? I read Incursion...but don't recall that
It's been almost a year since I read it, but I recall it during some of Mains' confrontations with them in the habitat.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 04, 2016, 07:28:39 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 04, 2016, 12:34:31 AM
Yes, I know, however this isn't actually Spoiler
proven in the story, only theorized.
Spoiler
the Rage were still the primary baddies and the ending didn't reflect the Faze's intentions at all, rather only an unfortunate series of circumstances.
Granted - it's only a theory but it's given a lot of credence within the story. As for the ending, again, I disagree - Spoiler
if we take that theory at face value, that the Faze/Drukathi want to de-stabilize humanity, mission is well and truly accomplished. That is exactly what the end results in.
QuoteI don't really give that much credence, rumors of what you hid in that spoiler tag were prevalent in Aliens: Steel Egg and even then nothing was actually proven therefore it didn't really matter at all.
Of course it matters. It goes to further substantiate why the Faze would be able to provide the means to control the Aliens. I don't recall that being an issue in Steel Egg.
Again, supposition on my part, but with it seeming to be where Covenant and Ridley is going it seems quite likely that it was the intent the Jockeys are the Drukathi and they created the Aliens. I'll be sure to ask Tim Lebbon about it when we catch up.
Quote
That's somewhat a fair point however when you're saving the galaxy, a crippled car is definitely a good way to kill everyone. :-\
Of course you don't want a broken spaceship but needs must. They don't really have any other method to save themselves.
Hicks, a thought occurred to me.
What if "Drukathi" is the Predator name for this race? Like how we call the Predators "Yautja."
In the interview, could you ask Tim for the backstory on why humans call them this? I know he said he picked the name because he liked it. (And he did a little nod on that by making Elder Kalakta say to Palant "I've always liked that name" after she said he was an "honourable Yautja.")
I just want to hear if Tim has thought up an in-universe reason for it. Maybe it's a word we kept hearing when spying on their communications and stuck to it, but butchered the pronunciation or something.
Maybe it's a name we came up with, while studying their language, we just mixed and mashed a few of their words or something. Maybe some scientist just randomly said that name in a drunken stupor and everyone stuck to it, I don't know! XD
In the original EU, the Predators called themselves Yautja, Lennon kept the name exclusively for the fan popularity attached to it, a move that backfired since his Predators act nothing like the original Yautja. Lebbon isn't the first to do this, the character bios of the Black Super Predators from the Predators film also referred to them as Yautja despite the fact that the Predators in question were Black Super Predators.
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 04, 2016, 11:06:21 AM
Spoiler
It just wasn't done that well, the Drukathi weren't mentioned that much to make the payout at the end worth it. As I said before, the Rage were still the primary baddies (whose goals are nothing like the Drukathi's) and the whole twist was the result of nothing more than an embarrassing lack of communication/understanding on the characters' part than a legitimate arc/plan to de-evolve the human race.
Again, we're not on the same page here.
Spoiler
The Drukathi were made a rather big deal of. While we didn't find out that much about them (something I hope will change), Armegeddon presents the idea that they are manipulating the events as being really likely. In fact, it makes a pretty big deal out of it when it comes to character motivations later on.
The shutting down of the dropholes wasn't an "embarrassing lack of communication", it was the result of system wide nuclear detonations taking out communications. It was an understandable call. Granted, that aspect was a little flukey as far as the Faze and Drukathi were concerned, but mankind was still in a bad place due to the actions of the Rage up until that point anyway. The C&C of the military was taken out, the Aliens were no longer under any control, many dropholes taken out, many worlds taken over by the Aliens, shipborn Rage left, blah, blah.
Either way, the Drukathi's manipulation succeeded. Mankind was severely crippled. I don't know why Lebbon did the drophole shutdown though. Feels like the 2nd retconning of the EU back to an Alien/s/3-esque state of the universe.
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Oct 04, 2016, 11:08:49 AM
In the interview, could you ask Tim for the backstory on why humans call them this? I know he said he picked the name because he liked it. (And he did a little nod on that by making Elder Kalakta say to Palant "I've always liked that name" after she said he was an "honourable Yautja.")
I just want to hear if Tim has thought up an in-universe reason for it. Maybe it's a word we kept hearing when spying on their communications and stuck to it, but butchered the pronunciation or something.
As PZ says, nothing more than it sounded cool. And as PZ said, Lebbon's Yautja are not Perry's which is why I'm not a fan of that being done. People like PZ and happypred are going to expect Perry's Predators.
Lebbon's Predators have a lot more in common with Perry's Yautja than the Hish do.
For instance:
They're both honourable and follow rules. Elder Kalakta's
Spoiler
fight towards the end shows how the younger Predators glanced his way, looking if he noticed their skills. A marine points out that no one huddled around to protect him because they wouldn't "denigrate" him like that.
Kalakta seemed happy to be called "honourable" by Palant. A Hish wouldn't give a crap.
Also, Hashori proudly boasted that the reason humans fear them is because "they respect our warrior prowess." Clearly a very warrior oriented species like Perry's Yautja. She also says "only cowards and criminals hide", a nod to how Perry's Yautja try to cloak as little as possible.
And, just like Perry's Yautja, not all of Lebbon's Predators followed these rules. Perry's Yautja were gonna target a family including kids and a pet until Dachande stops them.
Lebbon's Yautja were gonna target a man and his kids until a Colonial Marine kills it right in the first chapter of Incursion.
The only differences from Perry's ones are the fact that males and females are identical. And that sometimes, the Predators take captives when targeting populated areas, but no one knows why they take captives.
Could it be for slavery? Could it be for experimentation? Or could it be to drop them on hunting reserves?
Also, they're willing to work with humans, like how Dachande was working with Machiko Noguchi to fight the Aliens.
Lebbon does blend their technological advancement by combining it with Yautja (they make their own stuff) and Hish (they reverse engineer other civilization's stuff.)
Also the "Super Predators" are just another clan of Yautja. There's nothing stopping them from being one. I mean, Predators aren't a unified race to begin with, so they'd have many different clans and cultures.
Like Lebbon's ones, there's different languages and even different dialects between clans. It's not like learning Klingon and suddenly you can talk to every Klingon out there. It's a lot like learning English and then only being able to speak with English speaking humans.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 04, 2016, 11:29:44 AM
As PZ says, nothing more than it sounded cool. And as PZ said, Lebbon's Yautja are not Perry's which is why I'm not a fan of that being done. People like PZ and happypred are going to expect Perry's Predators.
I suppose you're right. Don't forget about Rakai'Thwei as well. ;D
You're not wrong, TAP. All fair points. They share some similarities, no doubt. But they aren't Perry's Yautja nor were they intended to be. There's room for all though. I think there's two interpretations of the Hish as well. Forever Midnight and Flesh and Blood's Hish are very different. F&B's Hish are probably my favourite EU interpretation of the Predator culture so far.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 04, 2016, 11:55:19 AM
You're not wrong, TAP. All fair points. They share some similarities, no doubt. But they aren't Perry's Yautja nor were they intended to be. There's room for all though. I think there's two interpretations of the Hish as well. Forever Midnight and Flesh and Blood's Hish are very different. F&B's Hish are probably my favourite EU interpretation of the Predator culture so far.
What are the differences between the two Hish versions? And what makes the F&B's ones your favourites? I remember reading some book summaries mentioning that a powerful family wanted to work with the Hish to eliminate some opposition. How does that go?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 04, 2016, 11:29:44 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 04, 2016, 11:06:21 AM
Spoiler
It just wasn't done that well, the Drukathi weren't mentioned that much to make the payout at the end worth it. As I said before, the Rage were still the primary baddies (whose goals are nothing like the Drukathi's) and the whole twist was the result of nothing more than an embarrassing lack of communication/understanding on the characters' part than a legitimate arc/plan to de-evolve the human race.
Again, we're not on the same page here.
Spoiler
The Drukathi were made a rather big deal of. While we didn't find out that much about them (something I hope will change), Armegeddon presents the idea that they are manipulating the events as being really likely. In fact, it makes a pretty big deal out of it when it comes to character motivations later on.
The shutting down of the dropholes wasn't an "embarrassing lack of communication", it was the result of system wide nuclear detonations taking out communications. It was an understandable call. Granted, that aspect was a little flukey as far as the Faze and Drukathi were concerned, but mankind was still in a bad place due to the actions of the Rage up until that point anyway. The C&C of the military was taken out, the Aliens were no longer under any control, many dropholes taken out, many worlds taken over by the Aliens, shipborn Rage left, blah, blah.
Either way, the Drukathi's manipulation succeeded. Mankind was severely crippled. I don't know why Lebbon did the drophole shutdown though. Feels like the 2nd to returning the EU to an Alien/s/3-esque state of the universe.
Yeah, I got the big deal with the Drukathi and everything; perhaps this is just my writing perspective but I felt that Lebbon should have devoted more time to the Drukathi than he actually did. Reading the story, I thought the Faze would take on a more proactive role nearing the completion of its mission but instead it is still a servant to the Rage.
It would have been more effective storytelling IMO if the Faze turned out to be some sort of EMP bomb and it detonated when nearing Earth (which the drop holes controls should have been placed) and destroyed all drop holes thus ruining things for both humans and Rage. Perhaps this EMP blast could have crippled the Rage, allowing the humans to win, and demonstrated just how insignificant the Rage were to the Drukathi and it would have exemplified to a greater degree their manipulation.
Spoiler
Instead we got an ending where the ignorance of a select group of humans, even though they were well-intentioned as you said, led to the unnecessary downfall of mankind, hardly very climatic for a story (let alone a trilogy).
Btw, I'm glad you also felt the ending had a rather retro feel to it.
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 04, 2016, 01:18:05 PM
Yeah, I got the big deal with the Drukathi and everything; perhaps this is just my writing perspective but I felt that Lebbon should have devoted more time to the Drukathi than he actually did. Reading the story, I thought the Faze would take on a more proactive role nearing the completion of its mission but instead it is still a servant to the Rage.
I think you're completely missing the point.
Spoiler
The Faze wasn't supposed to be proactive. That completely defies the point of it manipulating the Rage and steering them into a place where they were a threat. People weren't supposed to think it was meeting its own agenda.
It also wasn't a servant of the Rage. It made sure the Rage could do what the Drukathi wanted and then it bailed when the Macbeth was about to explode. It was 100% out for itself.
QuoteSpoiler
Instead we got an ending where the ignorance of a select group of humans, even though they were well-intentioned as you said, led to the unnecessary downfall of mankind, hardly very climatic for a story (let alone a trilogy).
Mankind was out for the count, regardless of that final moment. Just because it wasn't a happy ending, doesn't mean it was a bad ending. The story of the trilogy was resolved -
Spoiler
the Rage were defeated. It just wasn't a clean victory.
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Oct 04, 2016, 12:16:04 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 04, 2016, 11:55:19 AM
You're not wrong, TAP. All fair points. They share some similarities, no doubt. But they aren't Perry's Yautja nor were they intended to be. There's room for all though. I think there's two interpretations of the Hish as well. Forever Midnight and Flesh and Blood's Hish are very different. F&B's Hish are probably my favourite EU interpretation of the Predator culture so far.
What are the differences between the two Hish versions? And what makes the F&B's ones your favourites? I remember reading some book summaries mentioning that a powerful family wanted to work with the Hish to eliminate some opposition. How does that go?
I can't give you a 100% accurate recounting but from what I remember, they were more in-line with how I viewed the Predators. Brutal, out for the fun of the hunt and the kill, no honour stuff, no apostrophed names or etc. I am due a re-read of the book.
What do you mean by apostrophed names? Just curious because the only Perry Yautja name I know of is Yeyinde (aka Dachande.)
Lebbon's Yautja also don't have apostrophes in their names such as Hashori, Kalakta and Yaquita.
Do you mean names like Top-Knot, Stone-Heart, Long-Spear, and Guan-Thwei etc that we've heard in games? Those are the ones I remember from Concrete Jungle and one of those (Top-Knot) may be from one of the Machiko Noguchi books but I'm not sure. I have no clue where Guan-Thwei is from, I just saw it listed in some sites when checking out words in the Yautja language. It was even once on Wikipedia years ago.
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Oct 04, 2016, 03:14:01 PM
What do you mean by apostrophed names? Just curious because the only Perry Yautja name I know of is Yeyinde (aka Dachande.)
Lebbon's Yautja also don't have apostrophes in their names such as Hashori, Kalakta and Yaquita.
Sorry, that was was intended to be language, not names.
Vandermeer did Brutal Predators far better than Lebbon...mainly because I think Vandermeer is a far more skilled writer
There's no denying South China Sea is easily one of those rare 10/10 novels. The Rage War have all been 7s for me.
amazing that you can't get a copy of SCS for less than 100 dollars, thats a heartbreaker.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 04, 2016, 02:01:52 PM
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 04, 2016, 01:18:05 PM
Yeah, I got the big deal with the Drukathi and everything; perhaps this is just my writing perspective but I felt that Lebbon should have devoted more time to the Drukathi than he actually did. Reading the story, I thought the Faze would take on a more proactive role nearing the completion of its mission but instead it is still a servant to the Rage.
I think you're completely missing the point. Spoiler
The Faze wasn't supposed to be proactive. That completely defies the point of it manipulating the Rage and steering them into a place where they were a threat. People weren't supposed to think it was meeting its own agenda.
It also wasn't a servant of the Rage. It made sure the Rage could do what the Drukathi wanted and then it bailed when the Macbeth was about to explode. It was 100% out for itself.
QuoteSpoiler
Instead we got an ending where the ignorance of a select group of humans, even though they were well-intentioned as you said, led to the unnecessary downfall of mankind, hardly very climatic for a story (let alone a trilogy).
Mankind was out for the count, regardless of that final moment. Just because it wasn't a happy ending, doesn't mean it was a bad ending. The story of the trilogy was resolved - Spoiler
the Rage were defeated. It just wasn't a clean victory.
Well, the victory at the end
Spoiler
provided what I felt was an unnecessary damper on the whole arc, but I can certainly understand how other fans might enjoy a gritty ending.
Regarding the Faze, yeah, I agree that staying in the background and manipulating people from the dark is the more logical option, but in stories there is opportunity to be more
illustrative for the sake of the plot.
Take the Death Star in Star Wars, for example; when the Empire destroyed Alderaan it cemented them as evil and the Death Star as the ultimate weapon. This wouldn't have been quite as effective had the plot only theorized that the Death Star could destroy Alderaan, if the Death Star's capabilities were only theorized rather than demonstrated then the Empire wouldn't have seemed as evil.
(FYI, the logical way to spread fear with the Death Star is to make threats but never act on them; fear of violence is always more effective than violence itself because one's imagination is often more terrifying than actual reality. Furthermore in the original EU, the destruction of Alderaan did not inspire fear rather than rage in the surrounding systems for the senseless massacre of millions thus inspiring even more planets to rebel.)
The Faze is always seen in the background but the fact that it doesn't do anything to exert the Drukathi's will hurts the idea that the Drukathi are as powerful as claimed. Like the Aliens, being subservient to the Rage only makes it look weak rather than clever.
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 04, 2016, 04:59:22 PM
The Faze is always seen in the background but the fact that it doesn't do anything to exert the Drukathi's will hurts the idea that the Drukathi are as powerful as claimed. Like the Aliens, being subservient to the Rage only makes it look weak rather than clever.
Spoiler
Except that the Faze exerts the Drukathi's will by modifying mankinds technology beyond any of their current science. Just because it's not overt doesn't make them less powerful. The very implication that the Rage are able to control the Aliens increases their threat level.
True, true, but by the end of the day, that's all we get, implied threats. I'm merely saying for the sake of storytelling that it would have been more effective had we gotten more.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It just requires a bit of reading into. It's not overt but it's also not so implied that it's non-existence. It's just below the surface. And to be honest, it would have diverted from the main point of the series, the Rage. I'm wondering if we'll see more of this in the anthologies or future stories. I know we're getting a Rage War tie-in in one of them (can't remember which off-hand though).
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 04, 2016, 06:09:58 PM
It just requires a bit of reading into. It's not overt but it's also not so implied that it's non-existence. It's just below the surface. And to be honest, it would have diverted from the main point of the series, the Rage. I'm wondering if we'll see more of this in the anthologies or future stories. I know we're getting a Rage War tie-in in one of them (can't remember which off-hand though).
I remember hearing this too, is the Rage War tie-in a prequel to the trilogy? Or is it set after?
I hope we get more series set afterwards, I'd love to see how this affects human and Yautja relationships now that they've fought a war together as allies on a much larger scale rather than simple solo team ups in isolated cases.
Amazon said it's dispatching my book on Monday, ugh, this is gonna be a long week...
Go digital - faster and cheaper.
Blasphemy! I much prefer the paper in my hand and a book on the shelf at the end. Personal preference though. I'm same with having physical copies of games and films. Completely understand why the digital versions are appealing though.
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Oct 04, 2016, 06:51:05 PM
I remember hearing this too, is the Rage War tie-in a prequel to the trilogy? Or is it set after?
Just checked - it's a prequel to the Rage War and it's in the Predator anthology.
I've emailed Tim about doing a catch-up interview. He's not replied yet but I imagine he'll be happy to do another Q&A. I'm working on some questions while I write my review but as always, I wanted to offer you guys the chance to put across any questions to Tim.
QuoteBlasphemy! I much prefer the paper in my hand and a book on the shelf at the end. Personal preference though. I'm same with having physical copies of games and films. Completely understand why the digital versions are appealing though.
I prefer a hardcopy too - but digital is a fraction of the cost and you can get it instantly. It takes months for these books to appear on shelves at this end of the world. I used to be able to get books cheaper via Book Depository in the UK, but the prices have gone up and delivery times can vary.
Digital is also indexed and searchable.
120 pages in
Spoiler
and man, Weaver's World is going to be a bloodbath! I liked the explanation for the planet's name, too. :laugh:
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 04, 2016, 06:09:58 PM
I'm wondering if we'll see more of this in the anthologies or future stories. I know we're getting a Rage War tie-in in one of them (can't remember which off-hand though).
What is this you speak of?
Quote from: Ultramorph on Oct 05, 2016, 12:27:18 PM
Spoiler
Weaver's World
Now I wonder who that could be a reference too.
They give the name an in-universe explanation, too.
Three quarters of the way through AvP:A and something I only just noticed.
Spoiler
Palant
Halley
Liliya
Ware
Yaquita
Hashori
Maloney
The major players are all women. Marshall and Bassett aren't directly involved till the second half of the last book. Johnny Mains was a major player until he was killed at the end of Invasion (as far as I know thus far) and the only other one of his marines who survived as long was a woman called Lieder.
And throw in Halley being black and Palant implied to be a lesbian for good measure.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Oct 05, 2016, 05:12:10 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 04, 2016, 06:09:58 PM
I'm wondering if we'll see more of this in the anthologies or future stories. I know we're getting a Rage War tie-in in one of them (can't remember which off-hand though).
What is this you speak of?
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=55032.0
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=54424.0
2 anthologies coming out.
Just finished. I think it could've perhaps gone on a few pages longer to tie up the storylines a bit more.
While the series had a feel that was more Star Trek than Alien, I didn't really mind since it was so far in the future, and Alien rarely has these kind of sweeping epics anyway. I was able to set aside some continuity issues and overall I quite enjoyed it. Even three quarters through I didn't know how it was going to end. Which was nice.
I want to get those questions sent off to Tim Lebbon in the next few hours. Last chance to get any submitted guys!
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Oct 04, 2016, 12:16:04 PM
What are the differences between the two Hish versions? And what makes the F&B's ones your favourites? I remember reading some book summaries mentioning that a powerful family wanted to work with the Hish to eliminate some opposition. How does that go?
I started re-reading this last night. They didn't "work" with the Predator, they lure the Predator to the planet and then it goes mental.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 07, 2016, 08:09:58 AM
I want to get those questions sent off to Tim Lebbon in the next few hours. Last chance to get any submitted guys!
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Oct 04, 2016, 12:16:04 PM
What are the differences between the two Hish versions? And what makes the F&B's ones your favourites? I remember reading some book summaries mentioning that a powerful family wanted to work with the Hish to eliminate some opposition. How does that go?
I started re-reading this last night. They didn't "work" with the Predator, they lure the Predator to the planet and then it goes mental.
Ah, that's awesome to hear about them "luring" them instead. It makes more sense too.
As for questions for Tim, if you're still yet to send them, can you ask him if Fox plans to continue the Rage War related timeline? As in will there be things set after it? I really loved the world he's built and want to see how it goes from there.
Also ask him about the human settlers on Arcturus if possible? The Arcturians were established as a very friendly and open race in Sea of Sorrows, River of Pain and even in Aliens. But in Rage War, they're treated as enigmatic, and human settlers go to settle on Arcturus to get away from living in the Human Sphere because they're disillusioned with the rest of humanity. Did relations with humans and Arcturians go downhill at one point?
I assume you naturally asked him about the Drukathi, so I'll leave that out. :P Feel free to ask him about anymore alien races and Bug Hunt.
150 pages in now, still really digging it. So what's the consensus on the Drakuthi
Spoiler
do we think they're the Engineers or something else? Lebbon did go out of his way to use the verb "engineer" twice in the scenes where Palant and Kalakta are talking.
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Oct 07, 2016, 03:48:06 PM
As for questions for Tim, if you're still yet to send them...
Just sent them off. A little later than I was wanting to but they're out there! Hopefully we'll know all about the Drakuthi soon!
I remembered in the last interview when you asked him if
Spoiler
the Dog-Aliens would return for the second or third book, and he was being very enigmatic with his answer. So I think it's kind of 50/50, they might be Engineers, or they might be Dog-Aliens.
I can't wait to read Tim's responses! ;D
Also your review for the third book! :)
223 pages in now. Getting sad it's almost over!
Spoiler
Lebbon writes some good battle scenes. It's cool to see Predators fighting with the human characters. The Yautja drop-hole was really neat.
I'm dying to see what happens with Maloney and the Rage now that they're in the Sol system. The Faze is going to turn on them so hard, I get the feeling.
I finally got my book!
I am three chapters in and have noticed something.
Spoiler
One of the Rage Captains has scars from previous battles. What could those be from? We know they've encountered Yautja in the past, before causing the Rage War.
And this Founders rebellion seems to have only happened in the Othello which was destroyed in the second book.
So, could this Rage character have gotten his scars from encountering and combating other alien lifeforms? Maybe intelligent ones too?
Probably option 1.
So I have just finished...
Spoiler
I am SO gutted that Liliya is dead... I accidentally read a hint of it in the previews and went into such a heavy denial about it that I completely forgot about the spoilerish hint. I remembered much later into the book and was sort of mourning every Liliya chapter I came across, thinking "this is the last" So seeing it happen was quite emotional as f**k for me. I never thought I could care for a book character so much. She truly lived as an android and died as a human being. :(
I also felt for Yaquita's death, it wasn't shown but just hearing how the Xenomorphs took her apart made me feel bad for her. But at least she died fighting, and a good fight at that according to Maloney.
I am glad that my two other favourite characters, isa Palant and Hashori of the Widow Clan survived! Palant and the surviving Marines and Indies as well as the Tanns all go with the Yautja and away from humanity. To an unknown and exciting future.
One of my other favourite characters has an uncertain fate, we know two Yautja died from the explosion caused by Liliya's sacrifice, but we don't know which ones. And it is not stated if Elder Kalakta survives... I think there's a good chance he does live, because if he died, maybe that would have been mentioned, he was revered by the other Yautja including Hashori.
Humanity has been driven back centuries due to the destruction of all the Dropholes. Plus the Yautja took the remains of the Rage ships from Sol and probably elsewhere, denying humanity the technological treasures and taking it for themselves, sort of understandable as the Predators would rather have first dibs on high tech to stay ahead of prey. Hicks, you're right that this does feel like it drove humanity back to the Alien/S/3 era, I was thinking the same after finishing the book. Say hello to all the rusty Nostromos again! ;D
I liked the Yautja drophole in their asteroid habitat, a sort of sun-like, almost arcane technology... almost everything about their tech was arcane, the fading doorways, the fluid materials that can form chairs and food replicators or computers as well as ship controls etc. They are deceptively advanced, possibly the most advanced interpretations of the Predators so far.
Still far ahead of 2692 AD humanity.
Happypred, you'll be a very happy pred to know that a Yautja carried a gun the size of a human in one battle scene. I told you before that in Incursion, those were hunters being killed by marines, not prepared warriors. And I was right, because when the warriors came in, the Rage began feeling the full brunt of their power.
Also their well prepared ships make Marine ships look like a tin can in space. Those ships in Incursion were hunting jeeps in space fleeing the Rage, but when true warships came into the fray, then the tables were turning and they were turning HARD.
Even in ground battles, a high ranking Marine says he bets that the Yautja would win a war with humanity as he witnesses them decimate high numbers of Xenomorphs with a mixture of plasma caster, melee weapons and actual Predator guns, including that one the size of an adult human and easily carried around by its wielder.
He also says how their fighting style felt more complex than human martial arts, using gravity as their plaything as they leapt at their enemies and gracefully slice them midair.
Heck, I think even Rakai'Thwei might like that seeing as Perry's Yautja had fighting styles more complex than human martial arts.
Now we know that Yautja have their own more advanced
Spoiler
dropholes, perhaps THIS is how Wolf got to Earth so damn fast? XD
Also, Hashori mentioned how every Yautja makes one pilgrimage to their homeworld during their adult life. And she says perhaps this is her time to make one.
I have mixed feelings about the dropholes.
Spoiler
It was good that AvP:A clarified how they worked more, as it was bit vague in the other books. And I love all extradimensional timey-wimey stuff that can drive you mad if you're not in a proper hypersleep pod (except Predators who are all 'meh'). But they were a bit redundant in a wider context. The ships in these books were touted as being very fast, but were incredibly slow compared to much older ships (Sulaco, Nostromo).
The clarified version of the dropholes in AvP:A does speed things up quite a lot, but the Arrow-class ships, supposedly the fastest, were still way slow. Drophole Rage 1 was about 500 light years from Sol, and we're given the impression it would take years, possibly longer, to travel such distances. The Sulaco, a 500 year old ship, could do it in 9-10 months.
In that regard, it was like Lebbon created something to bring the known universe closer together that it didn't actually need - and now it's gone.
Yeah, I understand your concern. I remember that in the second book, it was stated that it'd take 40 years to get to Earth from the edge of the Human Sphere.
Maybe if Lebbon made the Sphere larger and his ships faster than the ones so far. That would've worked a bit better.
I did like the idea that the ships took ages to get to places, it kept with the Alien theme of space travel being difficult and costly, and even long (even if it just takes months, that's still ages), but he made our territories too small and ships even slower than the Sulaco.
I like how the first book made it seem like humanity caught up with Predators mostly, being almost equal and all. Then the second book slowly casts doubts on this as you are shown Marines struggling against the Rage while Yautja ships come and lend a big help here and there.
Then the third book completely throws it in your face how still behind the Predators we are technologically... and the ending
Spoiler
only adds more salt to that wound as most of our progress is demolished back by a couple of centuries. While they get themselves a nice Rage Warp Drive to probably reverse engineer.
Also those Goldilocks worlds such as Addison Prime and Weaver's World makes me wonder, have Engineers seeded them?
Weaver's World has
Spoiler
spiders that weave massive webs (hence how it got the name), and also a wolf-like creature that got domesticated by human colonists (as no alien life such as actual dogs were allowed on the world). It also even wags its tail when happy and behaves pretty much like a dog.There's also some birds too, hinting that this world could've had dinosaur like creatures possibly in the past as birds are basically modern dinosaurs. Maybe this world had a similar evolutionary path for some of its creatures. The only truly alien thing were the tentacled whales I think, we didn't get a good glimpse on it, just that it had a blowhole like a whale, was huge and snatched birds from above water with tentacles.
I think there were other animals mentioned in previous books that seemed quite Earth-like but I can't remember.
I remember the old EU had some alien but familiar creatures, like one of the comics with Machiko Noguchi shows a monkey like thing. Also the world in AvP-2 whith Jockey ruins has alien animals that have DNA strikingly similar to Earth life according to the datapads you can read. I know these were long before Prometheus, it's just an observation I made that I found really interesting and thought I'd add.
Although it shouldn't be too surprising to see Earth-like life on other worlds in this franchise when you consider the similarities between humans and Predators. So other worlds can have dog like things and bird like things etc.
Also Predxeno, regarding your criticism on the Marines using infrared to track Aliens.
Don't forget that their suits have their own tracking systems too, they highlight enemies and also which targets to shoot so you and your comrades don't shoot the same thing.
Plus, in the third book, they only activated infrared when lights got blown out or when too much smoke clouded the area. So they probably weren't doing it for the Xenos, but to see better in the environment.
My review is up! http://www.avpgalaxy.net/literature/reviews/alien-vs-predator-armageddon/
Excellent review Hicks.
I do disagree with the Gerard Marshall bit, I personally found his character development interesting. How underneath all of that money and power, he is just a human being. How even Marshall can find it within himself to care.
In a way, Marshall reminded me of Grant from the older novels like Alien Genocide. A corporate CEO with a greedy motivation who develops into a better person as the story unfolds.
Spoiler
As for your point on their plan, I think they must've discussed it off-page. They did some things off-page like Halley about to explain her plan before their assault on the Macbeth. Maybe they went over it again or something.
But besides that, I agree with everything else. I also felt Tim could've continued
Spoiler
Sergei Budanov's arc a bit longer. What happens to him? Does he win? Does he die? Last time we see him and his unit, they're charging with some Yautja into the dark tunnels to face Aliens and that's pretty much it.
Whereas everybody else got some nice conclusions. I am going to assume that soon after the conclusion, the Yautja depart from their alliance, they leave places like Weaver's World for humans to defend themselves, having finally got their vengeance. They may have helped us, but they're not here to hold our hands lol.
Just finished the book! I'll have thoughts up probably tomorrow, but boy that was an ending!
Spoiler
I liked how the final digits to deactivate the drop-holes were 426.
Sad Yaquita died off-screen. I'm really hoping we get some follow-up stories, especially following Palant and Hashori. Same with the Drukathi. I have to think they're the Engineers, especially with Palant's reference to "theological riddles," but either way I hope we get more info on them.
Overall, a good end to a great trilogy.
Now I have an overwhelming urge to go back and re-read both Titan trilogies. I love how Lebbon planted these seeds back in 2014 and it paid off this big.
Spoiler
I definitely think the dog-aliens were a victim of the Drukathi like humans became. There was probably a dog-alien Rage War at some point!
Also pretty sure now that the Faze is the creature from the Prometheus mural, and that the mural is telling how the Engineers left them behind to bring the xenos to races that become too advanced.
I really like how the xenos are basically a cosmic balancing force in the Rage War, that's a lot like their role in Destroying Angels.
One last thing, I love the line
Spoiler
"Even the Yautja have never found anything like that." in reference to Midsummer. Very eerie.
Good point, Ultramorph.
Maybe the Dog-Aliens did have their own
Spoiler
Rage War.
Remember the Dog-Alien ruins found on LV-178? What if that was a colony infested by their own version of the Rage? Because I don't recall their ship being described the same as the Rage ships. Maybe it was similar, it's been a long time since I read Out of the Shadows and Sea of Sorrows. I know they grew their buildings, but maybe those were buildings "upgraded" by the Faze?
I doubt the Faze is the creature on the mural. it's described as a slug like organism with insect like limbs on its back. And in the third book, it separates into pieces and can change shape sort of.
That thing in the mural is too big for a Faze, it's more canine... Dog-Alien? (Although Tim Lebbon denied that is the same creature.)
Yeah that's a good point about
Spoiler
the mural creature not really matching the description of the Faze. I'm dying to learn more about the Drukathi, either way.
I can't wait to read the next interview with Tim Lebbon! Hicks had sent the questions to him.
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Oct 15, 2016, 08:04:31 PM
Maybe the Dog-Aliens did have their own Spoiler
Rage War.
Remember the Dog-Alien ruins found on LV-178? What if that was a colony infested by their own version of the Rage? Because I don't recall their ship being described the same as the Rage ships. Maybe it was similar, it's been a long time since I read Out of the Shadows and Sea of Sorrows. I know they grew their buildings, but maybe those were buildings "upgraded" by the Faze?
That's a really interesting point! I distinctively remember the Dog-aliens ship as being described as looking grown. I don't recall them mentioning the same about the buildings though. Can anyone check?
Buildings were stone as far as I remember.
Yeah it's been a while since I've read
Out of the Shadows or
Sea of Sorrows, but I seem to remember the "grown not built" thing only applying to the ships. Maybe Midsummer was their equivalent of the Macbeth.
I also wonder
Spoiler
how much damage was actually done to Sol system, especially Earth. It seemed dire from what Marshall heard, or didn't hear.
I don't think they
Spoiler
reached Earth. They destroyed Charon Station. When their ships destructed, some destructed near moons and other planets, probably near colonies.
And several nukes went off around Mars' facilities, which makes me wonder if James Barclay got killed.
But as for Earth, I think four explosions happened on the path towards Earth, but not near it. However, all of these nukes going off must've sent some EMP wave that prevented communications, even if temporarily, which made Marshall think the situation was much more dire than it actually was.
If he hadn't shut down the dropholes, there actually wouldn't have been "that" much damage. Humans would recover pretty quickly I think now that the Rage are defeated. It's the shutting down of dropholes that broke our cosmic backs.
However... I wonder if that drophole
Spoiler
modified by the Faze was affected? Can you imagine how vulnerable we are now? Our dropholes are shut down except for possibly that one which leads straight to Sol from hundreds of light years in an instant.
Maybe it's a new drophole that Yautja may begin using? In addition to their new Rage warp drives and anything else they gleam from the ruins of the Macbeth and the other Fiennes ships as I doubt they'd just leave them floating around the crippled humans.
I do wonder though, now that they know where
Spoiler
Midsummer is, will they pay it a visit? They've never seen the Dog-Aliens apparently and might be curious. Also they may head over there to nuke the f**k out of Midsummer to prevent it from falling into other prey's hands.
So many questions that call for a follow up!
Also what happened to the people on
Spoiler
Hell? I guess everyone died. What about the population on Weaver's World? It's now left crawling with Xenomorphs who are leaderless and dangerous. Maybe the Yautja stuck around for a bit but left soon after the Macbeth was destroyed. Leaving humans to fight Aliens alone now that their vengeance was complete? No doubt taking the ruins of the Aaron-Percival with them as they left.
What about Addison Prime? I can't remember if that world was attacked, was it attacked in the second book?
I hadn't even thought about
Spoiler
the super-up drop-hole right into Sol system. Looks like a good opportunity for the next wave of invaders!
I wonder if the Faze had something to do with Sol going silent for Marshall. Maybe it was covering for itself when it knew the Rage were going to lose.
I think that, as Hicks had pointed out, the
Spoiler
Faze fled because its task was done. It wasn't there to destroy humanity, just halt our technological progress and our spread throughout space.
Elder Kalakta did say that the Drukathi made the Faze to stop other civilizations from becoming too advanced. He also hinted to Isa Palant by saying it's not the Rage who are "too advanced", which is to say, it's Mankind.
And by pushing us back by 500 years, its purpose was fulfilled.
Maybe this was also the fate of the Dog-Aliens, they weren't destroyed but simply pushed back.
Somehow the Yautja may or may not have avoided a similar fate. But due to being such a primordial species, they either may have had their own "Rage War" or may have witnessed countless other civilizations experiencing a "Rage War" (aka "restart button") and that's how the Yautja seem to have known about the Drukathi's purpose and this could explain why they're so wary of them.
They're kind of like Reapers in Mass Effect, targeting advanced species but they don't destroy or harvest civilizations, just push them back.
I'm going to have to sit down and re-read this three at some point next year. I liked it overall, but it Lebbon's style isn't completely my thing, so at times I had to read a passage again, it just didn't really come together. The ending of book three felt rushed, after all the effort it took to get where everyone needed to be.
The concept though, of the current status quo.... That I liked!! There's some good potential for stories there.
I have no intention to read these books, but please feel free to persuade me to do so.
So far it sounds like Lebbon is coming up with his own sci-fi world within the Alien universe and it sounds like a lot of the concepts are kind pushing the Alien into the shadows (no pun intended - I promise!) and into the peripheries. Do they feel in anyway "related" to the feeling, theme and concept established in the original three Alien movies? Or does it feel more like a spin-off based on the amalgam of A:R, Prometheus and more recent EU story lines?
As you may know from the other thread I'm NOT a huge fan of the Alien universe being "crowded" by sentient life-forms and advanced life, which includes the Predators as well.
It's unlike most other Alien stuff (apart from the original three comic series) in that it's a sprawling war epic. The technological advancements feel natural enough due to the far future time frame. In that regard, it's an interesting change of pace from the 'small group of people trapped somewhere just trying to survive' type of story.
What SM said.
Also, it's not packed with technological alien life. In fact, that's rare, the only ones we keep encountering a lot are the Predators, and that's only because the gits keep coming to hunt us. Everything else is so far away that it's economically implausible to keep contacts with them. Literally, everyone's on their own.
Even our very first encountered alien race, the Arcturians, are so distant and silent to us. The human settlers on Arcturus have been isolated there for long enough to start developing their own racial traits, you could tell an Arcturian human just as easily as you could tell a member of a different race such as an Asian or an African etc. No Arcturians or humans from that system appear, this is just mentioned by a human reporter who encountered some human Arcturians.
It still feels like Alien at times. Space travel is still difficult and takes a long time to get to places. The universe still seems to be callously trying to murder us in many ways or break our minds as we try to take shortcuts through wormholes. Lebbon truly respects the scale and dangers of outer space and our inability to adapt to it.
Aliens are by no means placed to the side, I don't know why it seemed that way. They were the most dangerous Xenomorphs I have ever seen personally. Right from the first book I gained a ton more respect for the Alien monster. And by the third book, I see exactly why Weyland-Yutani keep busting their arses trying to weaponize the bloody things lol.
Spoiler
The Dog-Alien ruins are still mysterious and it makes you question their fate a bit. Things seem different compared to their colony on LV-178 and this artificial world of Midsummer.
Just who are those creators of the Faze, biomechanical slug things that build and improve upon existing technology but with a mysterious agenda? Are they even sentient or simply tools left behind by long gone creators?
Overall, it's really refreshing. It's not the usual "Predator hunt" or "Alien infests ship/colony" story. It has elements of those two, but it delves into a much grander picture. Aliens infest en masse, controlled by a very human enemy using ancient leftovers from a mysterious civilization to control them. The alliance with the Predators was the most natural alliance I have seen that could possibly happen with them.
It was filled with distrust, filled with tension that the two allies could turn on each other at any moment. There's no patting each other's backs, not even
Spoiler
at the end lol. They pissed off with all the leftover alien tech, leaving us 500 years back now that all our dropholes are gone and we're pretty much back to Alien era ship travel.
I've got the interview from Tim back. Hope to get it up by the end of the day.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 20, 2016, 08:15:12 AM
I've got the interview from Tim back. Hope to get it up by the end of the day.
Cool
By the way, just noticed the Tim Lebbon AVP rage war is out on Audiobooks. Was it always there? I only recall Out of the shadows being listed.
I'm listening to the samples just now and am I really hearing this correct? There's a ship called the Aaron Percival. Effin cool man lol.
Quote from: Nostromo on Oct 20, 2016, 10:45:36 AM
By the way, just noticed the Tim Lebbon AVP rage war is out on Audiobooks. Was it always there? I only recall Out of the shadows being listed.
They're out in audio book, just now audio drama from what I remember.
QuoteI'm listening to the samples just now and am I really hearing this correct? There's a ship called the Aaron Percival. Effin cool man
Haha. Yeah! I've got a ship named after me in the Rage Wars. ;D Tim named pretty much everything after people on his friends list on Facebook.
Quote from: Nostromo on Oct 20, 2016, 10:45:36 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 20, 2016, 08:15:12 AM
I've got the interview from Tim back. Hope to get it up by the end of the day.
Cool
By the way, just noticed the Tim Lebbon AVP rage war is out on Audiobooks. Was it always there? I only recall Out of the shadows being listed.
I'm listening to the samples just now and am I really hearing this correct? There's a ship called the Aaron Percival. Effin cool man lol.
It was first mentioned at the end of Incursion.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 20, 2016, 08:15:12 AM
I've got the interview from Tim back. Hope to get it up by the end of the day.
Interview is up: http://www.avpgalaxy.net/website/interviews/tim-lebbon-the-rage-war/
Answers to the Drukathi are in there. And I was completely wrong.
Quote from: SM on Oct 20, 2016, 09:30:14 PM
It was first mentioned at the end of Incursion.
It gets a mention in all 3 of them. :)
Great interview, Hicks! So the Drukathi
Spoiler
are the dog-aliens after all. I guess you we don't have to say "dog-alien" anymore! :laugh: I actually like that a lot. It's cool that there are other mysterious forces out there besides the Engineers. I really hope we get to learn more about their long history with the Predators. Now that we know they're the dog-aliens, it sort of makes sense why the Yautja never went against them, dog-people don't really seem like great sport!
Maybe the Drukathi took down the Engineers. That would be something.
So my initial guess was right about he Drukathi until you gentlemen planted my head with conspiracies about Engineers. *Puts on tinfoil cap*
That was a very good interview Hicks, I like how the things will be heading straight back to how they were between humans and Yautja. Reminds me of that ending in the Capcom game where the Predators give a reward to the human characters for fighting well, and then say "we'll see you again" in a rather menacing manner while aiming their lasers at them. Aka "hunt you soon" LOL!
I love that about the Yautja, they're such a barbaric and alien species! Utter monsters! No mercy, no compassion, not even gratitude! Not that we "did" much for them to be honest, but we stuck together and helped each other. I like how in the second book, Yautja attacks were still reported despite the alliance. They're so fragmented just like us, no unity. I love how diverse the Predators can be. Tim really knew what he was doing with them.
I look forward to his two short stories in the anthologies, both focus on Akoko Halley before the Rage War, I am glad we hear what other E.T. she'll fight in Bug Hunt, it's mentioned in the third book as he said, it shows up in a Yautja lab as one of the experiments. I was so curious when Halley said she encountered them some decades ago with her team, glad we'll see that event unfold soon! Can't wait.
Hicks, I've been meaning to ask, will we have an "Ask Tim Lebbon" thread? Like with Perry, Shirley and VanderMeer?
What if the
Spoiler
Drukathi clean up after the Engineers? They're probably as old as them, likely not created by them. They showed an interest in one of their creations, the Xenomorphs. But everything else they may have seen as a pollution that needs to be contained.
And in 2692 AD, it was our turn.
It sounds epic and all, but still... I'm a skeptic. I really don't like the whole AVP concept to begin with and would probably be more ok with the inclusion of these Dog-Aliens, Fazers and whatnot if it wasn't for the presence of Predators. I always felt that the Predators demystified the Alien and its universe.
Interesting how Lebbon covered his bases with the Arcturians with them both being a separate alien species native to the Arcturus star system as well as the human population (colonists) occupying the same space.
Still, I prefer my Arcturians to be humans (i.e. originally originating from Earth) as I'm not a fan of human-looking extraterrestrials populating the universe of Alien. Can't help but finding it cheap; doesn't matter it they're "created" by the same creators that "created" us, the Engineers and possibly the Predators. Just feels like a cop-out to me even though I get the inherent logic of it all. It simply doesn't jive well with me.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Oct 21, 2016, 07:43:38 PM
It sounds epic and all, but still... I'm a skeptic. I really don't like the whole AVP concept to begin with and would probably be more ok with the inclusion of these Dog-Aliens, Fazers and whatnot if it wasn't for the presence of Predators. I always felt that the Predators demystified the Alien and its universe.
Interesting how Lebbon covered his bases with the Arcturians with them both being a separate alien species native to the Arcturus star system as well as the human population (colonists) occupying the same space.
Still, I prefer my Arcturians to be humans (i.e. originally originating from Earth) as I'm not a fan of human-looking extraterrestrials populating the universe of Alien. Can't help but finding it cheap; doesn't matter it they're "created" by the same creators that "created" us, the Engineers and possibly the Predators. Just feels like a cop-out to me even though I get the inherent logic of it all. It simply doesn't jive well with me.
We both win thanks to this guy. I get my aliens, you get your Space Bangkok. :laugh:
And we both win in terms of the galaxy being quite empty and barren with very few intelligent aliens dotted around.
I think you'll be pleased to know that the focus on the Predators is very small in the first book, it's just hostile encounters as is usual in a Predator story. Aliens show up for a bit.
Their focus in the second book is even more minimal as it focuses on Colonial Marines fighting the invading Rage and their Xenomorph armies.
It's the third book that focuses on both creatures a lot, but the centre point is still on the human characters.
Hicks, you mentioned in the interview that
Spoiler
there are still some shipborn Rage left. I don't recall this being mentioned, where was it stated? I thought Liliya made all the generals self-destruct which would've caused the Rage ships to explode (the ones they're in.)
On Maloney's ship, there were around 100 or so shipborn in the entire mothership alone.
I know it mentioned "Titan Ships", but those are the human drophole building ships which are now pretty much f**ked as they're stranded out there. Most won't survive just like most colonies. Some may get lucky and manage to find or terraform a planet. It really is a grim dark ending.
Although it's interesting that Tim didn't comment on you saying there's shipborn remaining... hmmm... maybe there are. XD
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Oct 21, 2016, 09:08:22 PM
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Oct 21, 2016, 07:43:38 PM
It sounds epic and all, but still... I'm a skeptic. I really don't like the whole AVP concept to begin with and would probably be more ok with the inclusion of these Dog-Aliens, Fazers and whatnot if it wasn't for the presence of Predators. I always felt that the Predators demystified the Alien and its universe.
Interesting how Lebbon covered his bases with the Arcturians with them both being a separate alien species native to the Arcturus star system as well as the human population (colonists) occupying the same space.
Still, I prefer my Arcturians to be humans (i.e. originally originating from Earth) as I'm not a fan of human-looking extraterrestrials populating the universe of Alien. Can't help but finding it cheap; doesn't matter it they're "created" by the same creators that "created" us, the Engineers and possibly the Predators. Just feels like a cop-out to me even though I get the inherent logic of it all. It simply doesn't jive well with me.
We both win thanks to this guy. I get my aliens, you get your Space Bangkok. :laugh:
And we both win in terms of the galaxy being quite empty and barren with very few intelligent aliens dotted around.
I think you'll be pleased to know that the focus on the Predators is very small in the first book, it's just hostile encounters as is usual in a Predator story. Aliens show up for a bit.
Their focus in the second book is even more minimal as it focuses on Colonial Marines fighting the invading Rage and their Xenomorph armies.
It's the third book that focuses on both creatures a lot, but the centre point is still on the human characters.
Hicks, you mentioned in the interview that Spoiler
there are still some shipborn Rage left. I don't recall this being mentioned, where was it stated? I thought Liliya made all the generals self-destruct which would've caused the Rage ships to explode (the ones they're in.)
On Maloney's ship, there were around 100 or so shipborn in the entire mothership alone.
I know it mentioned "Titan Ships", but those are the human drophole building ships which are now pretty much f**ked as they're stranded out there. Most won't survive just like most colonies. Some may get lucky and manage to find or terraform a planet. It really is a grim dark ending.
Although it's interesting that Tim didn't comment on you saying there's shipborn remaining... hmmm... maybe there are. XD
Btw... What is the
Rage? Wouldn't mind having it explained to me
Spoiler
if you have the time to do that. Kind of curious I have to admit[/quote]
I'm gonna put my explanation in spoilers in case of potential spoilers.
Spoiler
The Rage were originally called the Founders. Centuries before the Rage War, a Founder Synthetic broke into a human ship to steal all the data on Aliens that the crew has researched. She also released the captive Aliens in that ship, killing almost everyone except the few who reached escape pods.
She reached the last one, setting the ship to drive into the nearest star to explode. It was in Alpha Centauri. She drifted in space for decades until she was found and picked up by the Founders.
They were lead by a man named Wordsworth who had many supporters. Because their members included some wealthy and influential people, as well as scientists and engineers. They were eventually able to construct three huge mother ships with better FTL drives than those of other human ships. In the early 2400's, they blasted out of human space.
They spent centuries exploring the vast unknowns, discovering and researching fascinating new sciences. Not restricted by funds and human regulations, they were able to study forbidden sciences such as quantum quantifications and multiverse balancing among other things.
There were three ships, the Macbeth, the Othello and the Hamlet, these were the three Founder motherships.
When they blasted off with their new and incredibly fast FTL drives, only Macbeth and Othello emerged. The Macbeth had no idea what happened to the Hamlet and the Othello had no memory of the Hamlet even existing in the first place. The ones who remembered the Hamlet noted how dangerous and unpredictable going at such speeds could be.
To cut a long story short, they find an artificial world that is still growing. The ruins left behind are five million years old according to carbon dating. This was an ancient settlement of the Dog-Aliens. Here they found the Faze, a slug like creature around the size of a medium to large dog that did nothing but build or improve technology. They brought two board, one on the Macbeth and the other on the Othello. The ships eventually became unrecognizable, looking as if they were grown instead of built. They had even faster FTL, they were stronger and more advanced in every way. They were even given ship shields.
They made attempts to communicate with it, but it didn't respond. It just moved around and tampered with things, bettering them and then it'd just sit and rest until something else needed tampering with.
They also found Xenomorphs on this planetoid, and using the research stolen centuries ago, they studied them and figured out how to control them by using the Faze's nanotechnology.
The original Founders lived for centuries, having discovered an alien gel-like substance that gave them long lives, eventually this came at a huge cost as the Rage Elders all became mutated and shriveled, some losing limbs due to atrophy. Being confined to floating chairs or inside of floating orbs filled with gel, swimming in their own discarded skin, piss and crap which would have to be filtered out by their shipborn human helpers.
But before that, when they still looked human, some Founders disagreed with Wordsworth. He said they left human space to be free. Beatrix Maloney said they should go back and take it. She murdered the very old man and took over, renaming the Founders into the Rage.
They eventually made their way back, at the end of the 27th century, they launched their invasion. A Synthetic rebelled and fled into human space, the same Synthetic who started the whole thing centuries prior ironically.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Oct 21, 2016, 07:43:38 PM
Still, I prefer my Arcturians to be humans (i.e. originally originating from Earth) as I'm not a fan of human-looking extraterrestrials populating the universe of Alien. Can't help but finding it cheap; doesn't matter it they're "created" by the same creators that "created" us, the Engineers and possibly the Predators. Just feels like a cop-out to me even though I get the inherent logic of it all. It simply doesn't jive well with me.
I don't like the sound of it either, for what it's worth; we already have too many Star Trek/Guardians of the Galaxy type stories to deal with. The Alien/AVP franchise should have been it own unique entity rather than another genre stereotype.
What about the myriad species populating the comics or adorning Predator trophy cabinets?
We have to get there sooner or later. Besides the idea of us being the continuous space travelling cavemen has to get old some time
perching
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 23, 2016, 11:04:08 PM
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Oct 21, 2016, 07:43:38 PM
Still, I prefer my Arcturians to be humans (i.e. originally originating from Earth) as I'm not a fan of human-looking extraterrestrials populating the universe of Alien. Can't help but finding it cheap; doesn't matter it they're "created" by the same creators that "created" us, the Engineers and possibly the Predators. Just feels like a cop-out to me even though I get the inherent logic of it all. It simply doesn't jive well with me.
I don't like the sound of it either, for what it's worth; we already have too many Star Trek/Guardians of the Galaxy type stories to deal with. The Alien/AVP franchise should have been it own unique entity rather than another genre stereotype.
Here we go again with "more aliens = Star Trek", why does everyone keep assuming that?
No, it's not the case. The Engineers didn't just create us. This is a good in-universe excuse for some biological similarities.
Even in the old EU, we had things like the Reapers, humanoid green skinned aliens hunting Xenomorphs and collecting eggs to sell in a marketplace.
We had a huge orange humanoid reptile thing putting Facehuggers on a grill.
We had a primitive tribe of humanoids encountering a Xenomorph from a crashed human space ship. And encountering a human survivor who was trying to kill the Xeno.
We had an alien who crash lands on Earth, self destructs his ship and is captured by humans who caught him just in time to witness a chestburster erupt from his chest.
We see another humanoid reptile collecting Alien eggs.
Then there's the "Cravenor" and another race in the Atari Jaguar AvP game.
Also the "Giff" from Alien: Steel Egg who mention another race that seeded worlds with Alien eggs in order to wipe out life.
And obviously the Space Jockeys and Predators were present in the old EU.
We had the Mala'kak (possibly Space Jockeys) from Original Sin (I think) set after Alien: Resurrection. They had a deal with a human organization, to be supplied with hosts for Xenomorphs.
Most of those are humanoid and a few have interacted with humans in various ways. So by this logic, Alien/Predator were "Star Trek" right from the beginning. :)
And those are just from the old stuff. I remember making a thread where we would list all the known sentient races.
What's the key difference between Alien/Predator and Mass Effect/Star Trek/Wars?
The lack of unity. No galactic society. No alliances. The "peace" with the Predators in Rage War only lasted for a while and they're back to hunting us again.
Another huge difference is lack of communication. Us interacting with Arcturians makes sense because by Alien era standards, Arcturus isn't that far away. But did they come to help us during the Rage War? No. It was the Predators who had very personal reasons for doing so. It seems relations with Arcturians may have fallen by the far future setting anyway. We've yet to see one in a comic or movie or a novel, so nowhere near is this "Star Trek", because it it were, why didn't we see a crew member or an Arcturian citizen? Sea of Sorrows and River of Pain implied a friendly relationship but Rage War hints at a distancing from them to the point that if you're sick of human society, just go to Arcturus - or maybe it's too late by that point because the "Arcturian humans" we see were there long enough to become recognizable as such.
^For the record, I hated all those other alien life-forms as well. Also, the Mala'kak definitely were the Space Jockeys; the Derelict on LV-426 was said to be their ship.
QuoteHere we go again with "more aliens = Star Trek", why does everyone keep assuming that?
Quite. Even by the end of the 27th century, it's still really just humanity and Predators, and prior to the Rage War, encounters with Predators were very rare.
Star Trek has Vulcans, Klingons, Romulans, Orions, Gorn, El Aurians, Borg, Kazon, Ocampa, Trill, Deltans, Betazoids, etc. etc. Alien doesn't have anything like that.
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 24, 2016, 12:23:15 AM
^For the record, I hated all those other alien life-forms as well. Also, the Mala'kak definitely were the Space Jockeys; the Derelict and LV-426 was said to be their ship.
Fair enough.
Quote from: SM on Oct 24, 2016, 12:43:55 AM
QuoteHere we go again with "more aliens = Star Trek", why does everyone keep assuming that?
Quite. Even by the end of the 27th century, it's still really just humanity and Predators, and prior to the Rage War, encounters with Predators were very rare.
Star Trek has Vulcans, Klingons, Romulans, Orions, Gorn, El Aurians, Borg, Kazon, Ocampa, Trill, Deltans, Betazoids, etc. etc. Alien doesn't have anything like that.
Indeed, and all those aliens are encountered very frequently. Unlike in Alien where it's usually one-off encounters, or just rare interactions such as with Arcturians, Engineers/Jockeys and Predators.
Another unique thing is all the aliens we heard so far (Predators, River Ghost, Engineer) have their own languages and alien noises. Unlike ST/ME/SW where everyone speaks plain English and is lip synched perfectly too despite those being "universal translators" and their lips should be moving like we're watching a live action foreign movie which was dubbed badly.
The Rage War did the translating thing very believably. It was made through a study of the Predator language, and it was very flawed but slowly began to evolve over time as the books progressed. And even then, it's not like everyone has access to it. I think only Palant and James Barclay had it. I liked that you had to speak first, and then the translator processes it. Unlike in ST where it automatically knows what you will say and instantly relays it.
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Oct 23, 2016, 04:32:57 PM
I'm gonna put my explanation in spoilers in case of potential spoilers.
Spoiler
The Rage were originally called the Founders. Centuries before the Rage War, a Founder Synthetic broke into a human ship to steal all the data on Aliens that the crew has researched. She also released the captive Aliens in that ship, killing almost everyone except the few who reached escape pods.
She reached the last one, setting the ship to drive into the nearest star to explode. It was in Alpha Centauri. She drifted in space for decades until she was found and picked up by the Founders.
They were lead by a man named Wordsworth who had many supporters. Because their members included some wealthy and influential people, as well as scientists and engineers. They were eventually able to construct three huge mother ships with better FTL drives than those of other human ships. In the early 2400's, they blasted out of human space.
They spent centuries exploring the vast unknowns, discovering and researching fascinating new sciences. Not restricted by funds and human regulations, they were able to study forbidden sciences such as quantum quantifications and multiverse balancing among other things.
There were three ships, the Macbeth, the Othello and the Hamlet, these were the three Founder motherships.
When they blasted off with their new and incredibly fast FTL drives, only Macbeth and Othello emerged. The Macbeth had no idea what happened to the Hamlet and the Othello had no memory of the Hamlet even existing in the first place. The ones who remembered the Hamlet noted how dangerous and unpredictable going at such speeds could be.
To cut a long story short, they find an artificial world that is still growing. The ruins left behind are five million years old according to carbon dating. This was an ancient settlement of the Dog-Aliens. Here they found the Faze, a slug like creature around the size of a medium to large dog that did nothing but build or improve technology. They brought two board, one on the Macbeth and the other on the Othello. The ships eventually became unrecognizable, looking as if they were grown instead of built. They had even faster FTL, they were stronger and more advanced in every way. They were even given ship shields.
They made attempts to communicate with it, but it didn't respond. It just moved around and tampered with things, bettering them and then it'd just sit and rest until something else needed tampering with.
They also found Xenomorphs on this planetoid, and using the research stolen centuries ago, they studied them and figured out how to control them by using the Faze's nanotechnology.
The original Founders lived for centuries, having discovered an alien gel-like substance that gave them long lives, eventually this came at a huge cost as the Rage Elders all became mutated and shriveled, some losing limbs due to atrophy. Being confined to floating chairs or inside of floating orbs filled with gel, swimming in their own discarded skin, piss and crap which would have to be filtered out by their shipborn human helpers.
But before that, when they still looked human, some Founders disagreed with Wordsworth. He said they left human space to be free. Beatrix Maloney said they should go back and take it. She murdered the very old man and took over, renaming the Founders into the Rage.
They eventually made their way back, at the end of the 27th century, they launched their invasion. A Synthetic rebelled and fled into human space, the same Synthetic who started the whole thing centuries prior ironically.
Ok, interesting...
Spoiler
but what's up with the name? The Rage? For some reason the name just sounds so silly to me and hard to take serious. Before I read your reviews and discussions about these books I thought the Rage was some kind of intelligent nano-virus or something like that. Some kind of alternate version of the Black Goo altering your neural capabilities, or something like that. Interesting that there is time travel involved. I always had a feeling that this franchise would get to that point at one time or another *no pun intended*
Spoiler
It's more about humans harbouring resentment at being ostracised in the first place then having centuries to stew about it and living way longer than anyone should; once gaining some awesome power, taking it back to seek vengeance.
Quote from: SM on Oct 28, 2016, 12:18:36 AM
Spoiler
It's more about humans harbouring resentment at being ostracised in the first place then having centuries to stew about it and living way longer than anyone should; once gaining some awesome power, taking it back to seek vengeance.
Ok, that sounds like an interesting theme and narrative. Maybe I will give these books a try later on. T
Oh, and thanks for taking time explaining it to me guys!
SM pretty much covered the reason.
As for the
Spoiler
time travel, it could be, I figured it was a bit deeper than that. I thought it was something that would be more incomprehensible. The ship disappears without a trace, and only one of the two ships remembers it and had records of it while the other does not, despite all three leaving at the same time and the same speeds.
Their FTL was the fastest at the time during the 2400's. The book uses this to further solidify the dangers of FTL travel at ridiculously fast speeds.
The Hamlet may have ended up in a different universe entirely.
Speaking of
Spoiler
time travel, this isn't exactly "travel", but it's timey whimey and interesting. When Weyland-Yutani use a technology that lets them speak across lightyears in real time (which is very costly and takes up tremendous amounts of power), their holographic faces constantly distort, and keep changing age randomly, each flicker shows them at a different stage in their life. Every time they speak, there's a slight but noticeable lag. One of the CEOs keeps mentioning how it always unsettles him everytime he has to speak to another of the W-Y's Thirteen.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Oct 28, 2016, 12:30:34 AM
Quote from: SM on Oct 28, 2016, 12:18:36 AM
Spoiler
It's more about humans harbouring resentment at being ostracised in the first place then having centuries to stew about it and living way longer than anyone should; once gaining some awesome power, taking it back to seek vengeance.
Ok, that sounds like an interesting theme and narrative. Maybe I will give these books a try later on. T
Oh, and thanks for taking time explaining it to me guys!
You're welcome man.
I'd like to hear your own thoughts on it if you decide to read them.
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Oct 28, 2016, 12:31:11 AM
Speaking ofSpoiler
time travel, this isn't exactly "travel", but it's timey whimey and interesting. When Weyland-Yutani use a technology that lets them speak across lightyears in real time (which is very costly and takes up tremendous amounts of power), their holographic faces constantly distort, and keep changing age randomly, each flicker shows them at a different stage in their life. Every time they speak, there's a slight but noticeable lag. One of the CEOs keeps mentioning how it always unsettles him everytime he has to speak to another of the W-Y's Thirteen.
I loved that aspect.
Same. I love how this trilogy shows how humans utilize
Spoiler
other dimensions for communications or space travel, and just how unprepared our minds can be when it comes to experiencing this ourselves.
Even their dropholes, although they are physical, also have a presence in other dimensions and humans don't fully understand how their own drophole tech works.
Lebbon's really went ahead and made the universe much more mysterious and creepy than it already was as a cold and lonely place with monsters in the closet.
Just ordered the first book tonight, should be here by Saturday. Can't wait to read it.
(Yes, I realize I'm behind here, but I had other books to get through first)
Hope you enjoy it, the trilogy is a really fun ride!
I hope you enjoy it dude, it's a really fun read. I plan on re-reading the whole thing back to back one day now that I have all three. No more painful long waits in-between books after binge reading them in the first two days.
I can't help it, but the fact that there are Predators in these novels is kind of a big turn off for me. I'm really not a big fan of the AVP concept, or more accurately - I simply can't seem to get truly invested in anything AVP. To me the whole AVP concept is just a crossover and nothing more than that. Just a fun schtick.
But you guys said that:
Spoiler
the Predators only have a minor role in these novels, no? If so, how small? Do they play a large and pivotal part in the story or are they in these books just to "add" some extra spice?
Spoiler
In the first book, they don't appear as much but they do have a presence here and there, mainly from certain characters but even then it's not teeming with encounters seeing as they're not very social nor have a high population density to the point that just seeing four or five ships enter human space is a lot and a cause for concern too, and in the third book when around ten or so Predators showed up at once, a marine said that's the highest amount they've ever seen of them at once in the same place.
They have the smallest presence in the second book, it's just this one character who is a companion of another character and even her part is really small overall. It's focused on humans vs Aliens and Rage.
The third book has the highest amount of Predator presence and we learn the most about them in that one (and by "most" I mean "not much"), the previous books are mainly speculations about them by humans. Only small scraps are shared in the first novel by a named Predator companion of a certain character.
First book arrived today, given that I have several days off starting tomorrow, I have something new to keep me occupied. :)
Let us know what you think of it.
Broke into the first couple of chapters yesterday. So far I like the universe and far future setup it has going on, though it is pretty slow thus far, but that's okay because at least the characters are good. I'm sure the payoff for it will be rewarding.
How do you guys imagine the following centuries after the Rage War?
How will the 2700's - 2800's - 2900's etc look? Will humans be making a quick recovery or will it take a very long time? Will they regain lost territories?
Will
Spoiler
Hashori's ship be discovered in the derelict Hell Station by salvagers? Will humans discover the Yautja asteroid in the Human Sphere? Or that Rage Drophole? Or any other Rage ships left? We know the Yautja took the Macbeth's remains, but we don't know yet if they took the other things.
Also, will they go to Midsummer? Because they now know this is where the Founders got their weapons of mass destruction. Do you reckon the Yautja will nuke it to kindgom f**k? Or will they study the place?
Just some things I wanna hear your own thoughts on. I still personally see humans scraping by and managing. Maybe rebuilding some Dropholes. Maybe getting access to some Rage tech.
What happens to
Spoiler
Weyland-Yutani and the Colonial Marines?
Finally finished this. Whilst I enjoyed large elements and the world-building, it wasn't the page turner it really should have been. I struggled through the climax if I'm honest.
I think Lebbon has played far too much Mass Effect.
"You say that as if it was a bad thing" ~ Detective Schaefer. :P
Sorry, I couldn't help it. I was re-reading the old Predator Omnibus comics. :laugh:
On the contrary, Mass Effect is superb but this was just too similar.
Drukathi/Faze = Reapers
The Rage = Cerberus
Beatrix Maloney = Illusive Man
Hell = Omega
Pixie = Normandy
The thirteen = The Council
Relays = Drop Holes
Faze modified relay =Omega 4 relay
The ending = Mass Effect 3's ending
This plus a host of other stuff such as the human/alien team-up, peace brokered between warring species etc. Seriously if you want to experience the Rage War in video game format, play the Mass Effect trilogy. The similarities are uncanny.
I do agree that there are similarities with sci fi such as Mass Effect. Also the use of food replicators and Warp drives reminded me of Star Trek. Humans and Predators both have these technologies.
And I noticed many of those Mass Effect similarities too. You gotta admit though, the Mass Relays are much safer and take you further away than Dropholes. :P I'd rather use that any time if I were a space traveler lol.
Despite these similarities, I like that Lebbon used a bit of his own personal touch. Such as making Dropholes extremely dangerous to construct and exceedingly risky to use with a guaranteed doom for anyone whose suspension pod has failed to work properly during a drop.
I've been off this thread because I didn't want to spoil myself the pleasure of the final book in the series. I haven't enjoyed the series as much as I had hoped, and am struggling to get through the second book.
Without undue spoilers, what's the bottom line on Book 3? Should I get it? Are people generally happy with the series? Are there any insights into the Engineers in the last book?
I enjoyed it.
There's no insight into Engineers but we learn a bit more about the Dog-Aliens from the Yautja perspective.
The trilogy is definitely worth a buy, if you go in expecting something unlike any other AVP story.
Kind of hard to believe it's all said and done. It seems like yesterday it was first teased in the back of River of Pain. Maybe I'm just getting old! :laugh:
Yep, this is certainly something very new and different.
Most of the stuff focuses on the same or similar themes and in a smaller setting such as some colony, town, space ship or station.
But here, the entirety of human space is put into focus with a variety of different settings being explored.
Plus we see something we've never seen before, space battles. All three books have space battles! I loved that because it's something I always wanted to see in the AvP universe.
I can't believe it's almost been a year since Book 2 was published!
Has anyone else been reading this trilogy?
Slowly making my way through book 1, haven't had a lot of free time for leisure reading because my world has been upside-down from buying a new house, selling my current one, packing all my shit, and preparing for the move.
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Mar 30, 2017, 03:11:40 AM
I can't believe it's almost been a year since Book 2 was published!
Has anyone else been reading this trilogy?
Re-reading for research purposes.
Same with No Exit. I remember thinking that book was a bit meh on original release. Re-reading, it's not that bad - but as many pointed out at the time; there's no proper ending. Seem to recall it being cut for reasons of length, which is a shame as other parts of the book could've been cut to make space for it.
Quote from: SM on Mar 30, 2017, 04:10:26 AM
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Mar 30, 2017, 03:11:40 AM
I can't believe it's almost been a year since Book 2 was published!
Has anyone else been reading this trilogy?
Re-reading for research purposes.
Same with No Exit. I remember thinking that book was a bit meh on original release. Re-reading, it's not that bad - but as many pointed out at the time; there's no proper ending. Seem to recall it being cut for reasons of length, which is a shame as other parts of the book could've been cut to make space for it.
I thought I remembered reading somewhere on this forum that the ending is truncated the way it is because of the deadline on finishing the book.
Edit-- it gets brought up a bit in this interview, looks like it was a bit of a mix of studio mandates on the book's content and length restrictions:
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/website/interviews/brian-evenson/
QuoteAvPGalaxy – The main criticism regarding No Exit was the abrupt way you changed from psycho-thriller to an action piece. The best description I saw was that "you really get the feeling that it wasn't the last half the author wanted to write, that there was some kind of mandate passed down". Was that the way you always planned it or was it something DH asked you to include?
Brian Evenson – Well... I guess there are several things I could say about that. There's definitely a transition there that may be partly due to me and partly due to the desire for a certain amount of action on the part of the powers that be. I can't speak for the powers that be and what they were thinking. I think on my side of the equation there were two things that had an impact. First, at a certain point I was thinking a lot about the way in which "Alien" and "Aliens" are radically different (in the same way that the two parts of my Aliens novel are) but yet somehow still kind of work together.
Second, the action component of it was originally meant to be shorter and to be followed by a more claustrophobic thing going on on the moon base that would return us to the kind of psycho-thriller thing we'd begun with. But once I was writing, I realized that the section taking place on the planet needed to be developed a lot more and that if I wanted to do what I did with the end that I'd need another 100 or 150 pages, which wasn't possible in the confines of the series. At the same time I tried to write the two halves in such a way that they'd balance against themselves, like what happens when you do a back-to-back reading of "Alien" and "Aliens". Despite that abrupt shift, I've heard from a lot of people that it's their favourite Alien novel (but of course those that don't like it probably aren't writing to me...).
AvPGalaxy – The ending was also rather abrupt. What did you envision happening after those final pages?
Brian Evenson – There's a whole series of things that would have taken place on the moon base, including a hijacking, escaped Aliens, steadily waning oxygen and food, lots of dark service tunnels, the death of Braley (unless it's a Braley synth?), Bjorn dragging himself around on his crippled legs and the death of pretty much everybody. I've got a 4-5 page summary of where things might have gone from there, and I wish I'd had a chance to write it.
Quote from: SM on Mar 30, 2017, 04:10:26 AM
Re-reading for research purposes.
For the Timeline?
QuoteSame with No Exit. I remember thinking that book was a bit meh on original release. Re-reading, it's not that bad - but as many pointed out at the time; there's no proper ending. Seem to recall it being cut for reasons of length, which is a shame as other parts of the book could've been cut to make space for it.
I was really disappointed with that novel. It started so great. It had the potential to be the best Alien novel imho.
This is going to sound like a question straight out of a maths exam but...
If there are 400,000,000,000 star systems in the Milky Way Galaxy and humans occupy 2% of the galaxy, how many star systems do they occupy?
I'm terrible at maths so I'm asking the community if anyone knows. I tried asking Google what 2% of 400 billion is and got 8 billion. That sounds like a lot of colonies out there... Jesus Christ, not even the Imperium of Man comes anywhere near those figures. I probably got the wrong answer. :laugh:
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Mar 30, 2017, 03:11:40 AM
I can't believe it's almost been a year since Book 2 was published!
Has anyone else been reading this trilogy?
I've beee meaning to do a re-read, just been too busy lately. Time sure has flown.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Mar 31, 2017, 12:14:54 AM
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Mar 30, 2017, 03:11:40 AM
I can't believe it's almost been a year since Book 2 was published!
Has anyone else been reading this trilogy?
I've beee meaning to do a re-read, just been too busy lately. Time sure has flown.
Same, I plan to re-read them back to back eventually. I gotta go through the AvP omnibus and some H. G. Wells novels first.
Yeah I downloaded the AvP Omnibus a while ago but still haven't gotten round to reading past the few pages.
I'll probably do a ton of re-reading if things go according to plan and I take a vacation in October. Re-read Defiance and the Prometheus tie-ins.
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Mar 31, 2017, 12:07:00 AM
This is going to sound like a question straight out of a maths exam but...
If there are 400,000,000,000 star systems in the Milky Way Galaxy and humans occupy 2% of the galaxy, how many star systems do they occupy?
I'm terrible at maths so I'm asking the community if anyone knows. I tried asking Google what 2% of 400 billion is and got 8 billion. That sounds like a lot of colonies out there... Jesus Christ, not even the Imperium of Man comes anywhere near those figures. I probably got the wrong answer. :laugh:
No, that math checks out. 2% of 400billion is 8billion.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 31, 2017, 04:19:38 AM
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Mar 31, 2017, 12:07:00 AM
This is going to sound like a question straight out of a maths exam but...
If there are 400,000,000,000 star systems in the Milky Way Galaxy and humans occupy 2% of the galaxy, how many star systems do they occupy?
I'm terrible at maths so I'm asking the community if anyone knows. I tried asking Google what 2% of 400 billion is and got 8 billion. That sounds like a lot of colonies out there... Jesus Christ, not even the Imperium of Man comes anywhere near those figures. I probably got the wrong answer. :laugh:
No, that math checks out. 2% of 400billion is 8billion.
Thanks.
That is some staggering number at how big human space has become. Do you think it's likely that humans in the AvP universe could get to 8 billion star systems?
The fastest ships go 15 times the speed of light and it'd take them 200 years to fully circumnavigate the entire Human Sphere according to the novel. I wonder if that is correct?
Did it say we inhabit all those systems though?
I imagine we've explored 2%, but colonized much less. I can't imagine there's more than a few thousand colonies even as far out as the 27th century.
Good points guys, that's how I imagine it as well, we've explored 2% but inhabit less than that.
I wouldn't be surprised if humans occupy over a million worlds, but most of these are simply outposts or small settlements and towns.
The worlds with huge cities would be far fewer in numbers.
I am a bit late to the party, just finished the first book. Great and imaginative action around and on the Predator Habitat, a bit unsure about the other plot lines but will see how they unfold in the other books. Nice cameo for Aaron Percival in the end.
Yeah, I only just got around to reading the first book. Loved it though. Nice change of style from the typical Alien/Predator novel. Really looking forward to picking up the other two and seeing where it goes.
Any other forum user name-cameos in these books?
Don't think there's any other forum members, but most of the names are real people Lebbon knows.
Mains' ship in Incursion was called the Ocshe, while there was also mention of a Marine named Golden - both of whom are Alien/Predator authors.
Navarro pops up too (Yvonne Navarro is married to Weston Ochse).
Interestingly, depending on when they actually started working on Bug Hunt, I'm not sure Weston Ochse had actually written a story for the franchise when Incursion came out.
But Hunt was his first.
Quote from: SM on Jul 10, 2018, 09:59:33 PM
But Hunt was his first.
Does that "but" come with 2 t's? ;)
:laugh:
The perils of sausage fingers and a very small phone keyboard.
The two t version is no doubt an upcoming Chuck Tingle book.
(https://kwiksparonkloof.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/scaryfood-sausage-fingers.jpg)
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 10, 2018, 09:31:43 PM
Interestingly, depending on when they actually started working on Bug Hunt, I'm not sure Weston Ochse had actually written a story for the franchise when Incursion came out.
That was another one I really wasn't keen on in Bug Hunt. :(
Quote from: Wweyland on Jul 10, 2018, 05:28:18 PM
Any other forum user name-cameos in these books?
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jul 10, 2018, 05:53:12 PM
Don't think there's any other forum members, but most of the names are real people Lebbon knows.
I think it was mostly just people off Tim's Facebook. I recall him saying something like that when he was writing the books.
I think Ochse's one was the 'spitting disease' or whatever it was. Started out okay, but quickly went wtf?
Yeah, some weird zombie creatures or something. That anthology had some genuine potential that was just all over the place.
I actually really liked his one. Thought the idea of these guys being conscious but totally unable to control themselves during the whole thing was pretty creepy.
Sadly lacking in even a hint of what it was all about though.
I must admit that Johnny Mains is a cool sci-fi name but probably it was just his friends name.
Quote from: SM on Jul 11, 2018, 09:05:49 AMSadly lacking in even a hint of what it was all about though.
Fair, but it didn't really bother me. I don't necessarily expect a short story to fill in all the blanks with its limited run time.
Short stories proper resolutions. It could've been as if the 'spitting zombies' were acting like units in a game, tying it to the marines gaming obsession mentioned at the start. It was just another 'meh' story, in a sea of 'meh' stories.
Not loving the chapters that introduce a new character (there is already so many) only to kill them off at the end of the chapter. Getting predictable that an administrator by the name of McBrain ain't gonna live long.
Some cool fan concepts for the Predator spacesuits.
(https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/014/391/048/large/william-bao-spacesuit-predator.jpg?1543790517)
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/OymLyb
Cool stuff! Rage War graphic novel when?
Those are cool indeed, I wish the trilogy was nearly as good as that artwork.
But obviously it inspired someone!
I finished the trilogy a few days ago. Overall I liked it.
Johnny Mains was pretty cool. The concepts introduced were kind of Trekkie (faze). The last 3rd of book 3 was pretty intense. It had on off page death that I would have been I terested to read considering the characters lack of legs. The other 2 books seem to be in the fog of my memory a bit. I'll revisit in a few years.
The third book was definitely a wild ride. I'm still hoping we get some sort of comic adaptation at some point. I want to see Yaquita and that Predator wormhole/sun base. Can't believe it's been 3 years since the first book.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ2MOP6XYDw
100% Correct on the Space Jockey
I love Rage War.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 03, 2018, 10:09:47 AM
Some cool fan concepts for the Predator spacesuits.
(https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/014/391/048/large/william-bao-spacesuit-predator.jpg?1543790517)
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/OymLyb
Those are absolutely beautiful.
Very Fugitive-like in shape.
Quote from: Kradan on May 11, 2019, 07:29:38 PMI love Rage War.
Ditto.
The novels make little sense alongside the aesthetic of the films but as an exercise in trying something new I thoroughly enjoyed them.
I really enjoyed the trilogy as well.
Bah humbug.
Can anyone tell me if this is worth reading?
Yes.
Quote from: FatStu on Aug 30, 2020, 12:06:47 AM
Can anyone tell me if this is worth reading?
Are you attached to steve and S.D. Perry's Lore and the Yautja culture from those books? Will dissapoint you in the predator aspect if you are, but yes overall worth a read.
I loved it
Of the recent Titan novels, I think Cold Forge is the only book I enjoyed more.
That's fair
I haven't read them since each first came out, but I remember really enjoying the series. I think the Predators were too underpowered in the first book, but not after that. Keep wanting to re-read this series actually.
Quote from: Tichinde on Aug 30, 2020, 04:33:47 AM
Quote from: FatStu on Aug 30, 2020, 12:06:47 AM
Can anyone tell me if this is worth reading?
Are you attached to steve and S.D. Perry's Lore and the Yautja culture from those books? Will dissapoint you in the predator aspect if you are, but yes overall worth a read.
Rage War definitely portrays them as more mysterious than in the Perry novels. There are certain new elements of lore that are introduced in the former that, isolated, are kind of interesting in their own right. But yeah, if you are attached to the Perry characterization and culture/lore, it might take some adjustment at first.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 30, 2020, 11:04:13 AM
I haven't read them since each first came out, but I remember really enjoying the series. I think the Predators were too underpowered in the first book, but not after that. Keep wanting to re-read this series actually.
The 3 audios make pretty great listening while doing mindless chores and such. The reader is the same guy who plays Deckard from Audible's Sea of Sorrows, I believe.
Quote from: SpaceKase on Aug 30, 2020, 07:56:16 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 30, 2020, 11:04:13 AM
I haven't read them since each first came out, but I remember really enjoying the series. I think the Predators were too underpowered in the first book, but not after that. Keep wanting to re-read this series actually.
The 3 audios make pretty great listening while doing mindless chores and such. The reader is the same guy who plays Deckard from Audible's Sea of Sorrows, I believe.
Sooooooo true
Without spoiling who or what he is, hands down my favorite part of the trilogy is Kalakta. He just has a presence for the few times he's in the book and he's kinda freaky because you get the feeling he's just like so wise that he could literally outthink anyone. That's how I felt anyway.
Quote from: Tichinde on Aug 30, 2020, 09:15:59 PM
Without spoiling who or what he is, hands down my favorite part of the trilogy is Kalakta. He just has a presence for the few times he's in the book and he's kinda freaky because you get the feeling he's just like so wise that he could literally outthink anyone. That's how I felt anyway.
Is he implied to be
Spoiler
the Elder of the Lost Tribe from Predator 2
?
Spoiler
Yes. I tried to get them to make him the Predator leader in Life & Death too, but it didn't happen.
Spoiler
Holy shit ! Why I've never heard Voodoo talking about it ? :o ???
Quote from: Kradan on Aug 31, 2020, 05:41:59 AM
Spoiler
Holy shit ! Why I've never heard Voodoo talking about it ? :o ???
It's kind of a small and oblique reference amidst a giant three book epic. I wouldn't be surprised if most folks missed it.
Quote from: SM on Aug 31, 2020, 12:24:10 AM
Spoiler
Yes. I tried to get them to make him the Predator leader in Life & Death too, but it didn't happen.
That's pretty awesome! Shame on the latter note though.
Quote from: SpaceKase on Aug 31, 2020, 08:06:46 AM
Quote from: Kradan on Aug 31, 2020, 05:41:59 AM
Spoiler
Holy shit ! Why I've never heard Voodoo talking about it ? :o ???
It's kind of a small and oblique reference amidst a giant three book epic. I wouldn't be surprised if most folks missed it.
Quote from: SM on Aug 31, 2020, 12:24:10 AM
Spoiler
Yes. I tried to get them to make him the Predator leader in Life & Death too, but it didn't happen.
That's pretty awesome! Shame on the latter note though.
Just curious, I missed it too. What makes you think it was supposed to be
Spoiler
Greyback?
Quote from: Tichinde on Aug 31, 2020, 12:08:27 PM
Quote from: SpaceKase on Aug 31, 2020, 08:06:46 AM
Quote from: Kradan on Aug 31, 2020, 05:41:59 AM
Spoiler
Holy shit ! Why I've never heard Voodoo talking about it ? :o ???
It's kind of a small and oblique reference amidst a giant three book epic. I wouldn't be surprised if most folks missed it.
Quote from: SM on Aug 31, 2020, 12:24:10 AM
Spoiler
Yes. I tried to get them to make him the Predator leader in Life & Death too, but it didn't happen.
That's pretty awesome! Shame on the latter note though.
Just curious, I missed it too. What makes you think it was supposed to be
Spoiler
Greyback?
QuoteSpoiler
"I am Kalakta... six hundred and seventy-seventh Elder clan. The words appeared on the screen. They continued, missing some of what he said but still managing to make sense.
It's working! Palant thought, almost slumping with relief.
... born long... ten thousand suns. My parent group... Ascendance was on your Earth, in a city of... and heat. A man with dark skin... worthy opponent. I have hunted through... and taken many human trophies."
-Excerpt From: Lebbon, Tim. "Predator - Incursion." Titan, 2015-10-20T04:00:00+00:00. iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.
It's literally only this passage; super indirect, but specific enough to imply a pointed reference.
Quote from: SpaceKase on Aug 31, 2020, 01:44:31 PM
Quote from: Tichinde on Aug 31, 2020, 12:08:27 PM
Quote from: SpaceKase on Aug 31, 2020, 08:06:46 AM
Quote from: Kradan on Aug 31, 2020, 05:41:59 AM
Spoiler
Holy shit ! Why I've never heard Voodoo talking about it ? :o ???
It's kind of a small and oblique reference amidst a giant three book epic. I wouldn't be surprised if most folks missed it.
Quote from: SM on Aug 31, 2020, 12:24:10 AM
Spoiler
Yes. I tried to get them to make him the Predator leader in Life & Death too, but it didn't happen.
That's pretty awesome! Shame on the latter note though.
Just curious, I missed it too. What makes you think it was supposed to be
Spoiler
Greyback?
QuoteSpoiler
"I am Kalakta... six hundred and seventy-seventh Elder clan. The words appeared on the screen. They continued, missing some of what he said but still managing to make sense.
It's working! Palant thought, almost slumping with relief.
... born long... ten thousand suns. My parent group... Ascendance was on your Earth, in a city of... and heat. A man with dark skin... worthy opponent. I have hunted through... and taken many human trophies."
-Excerpt From: Lebbon, Tim. "Predator - Incursion." Titan, 2015-10-20T04:00:00+00:00. iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.
It's literally only this passage; super indirect, but specific enough to imply a pointed reference.
Damn dude, that's awesome. Yeah I missed that the first time around, don't know how but that's actually really cool.
Quote from: Tichinde on Aug 31, 2020, 01:52:15 PM
Damn dude, that's awesome. Yeah I missed that the first time around, don't know how but that's actually really cool.
Definitely an Inside Baseball kind of obscurity, but pretty nerdy and fun. These books are on regular rotation on my iPod for background noise so certain details always stick out for me, and this was one I always liked
Quote from: SpaceKase on Aug 31, 2020, 01:44:31 PM
Quote from: Tichinde on Aug 31, 2020, 12:08:27 PM
Quote from: SpaceKase on Aug 31, 2020, 08:06:46 AM
Quote from: Kradan on Aug 31, 2020, 05:41:59 AM
Spoiler
Holy shit ! Why I've never heard Voodoo talking about it ? :o ???
It's kind of a small and oblique reference amidst a giant three book epic. I wouldn't be surprised if most folks missed it.
Quote from: SM on Aug 31, 2020, 12:24:10 AM
Spoiler
Yes. I tried to get them to make him the Predator leader in Life & Death too, but it didn't happen.
That's pretty awesome! Shame on the latter note though.
Just curious, I missed it too. What makes you think it was supposed to be
Spoiler
Greyback?
QuoteSpoiler
"I am Kalakta... six hundred and seventy-seventh Elder clan. The words appeared on the screen. They continued, missing some of what he said but still managing to make sense.
It's working! Palant thought, almost slumping with relief.
... born long... ten thousand suns. My parent group... Ascendance was on your Earth, in a city of... and heat. A man with dark skin... worthy opponent. I have hunted through... and taken many human trophies."
-Excerpt From: Lebbon, Tim. "Predator - Incursion." Titan, 2015-10-20T04:00:00+00:00. iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.
It's literally only this passage; super indirect, but specific enough to imply a pointed reference.
Woah :o I missed that also. So, "ascendance" - is that to mean, according to Lebbon, that the Predators we've been seeing hunting on Earth have been a part of that parent group? I guess I'm not sure what "ascendance" means in this regard.
You know, this is slightly off topic and I still think it technically counts as spoilers but I always found this funny as hell
Spoiler
So since Kalakta is Greyback, we need to talk about this. Thanks to Predator 1718 we know what Greyback looks like in the 1700s, if you don't know here you go:
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d6/cf/4a/d6cf4a04551a8860b81b1f68b44fc73b.jpg)
Right so you see he has a nice green skin tone very healthy young man. Now obviously, that's from 1718 and when we next see him it's in 1997, which is about 297 years. Now we know that Yautja are extremely long lived, some even said to have hailed from ancient Egypt times to now, and even the Ancient Yautja from Predator: Homeworld still has his nice green hued skin tone:
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/da/e3/92/dae3926fb510f0d976802a4bb998e96a.jpg)
And I could keep naming off Yautja who aged beautifully and had way more than 300 years to barely change at all, Hell I think Paul Anderson implies Chopper is like 100 years old and Chopper is a youngblood. But what you have to remember about this is that Greyback was the poor bastard who went from a bright green to this:
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/avp/images/0/06/ElderP2crop.jpg/revision/latest/top-crop/width/360/height/360?cb=20150129075136)
Which is just funny, because the headcanon explanation I have come up with is that Greyback simply got stuck with the worst genetic template in Yautja history.
Anyway, rant over. I just always found that premature aging amusing
Maybe they just age differently, like how some people go bald or grey in their 30s...
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 01, 2020, 08:26:27 AM
Maybe they just age differently, like how some people go bald or grey in their 30s...
My dad in his 40s and he's almost grey now
Spoiler
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/da/e3/92/dae3926fb510f0d976802a4bb998e96a.jpg)
I actually dig weird artwork of Homeworld and how primitive Preds in it were ... but that expression on woman's face :D
Looks like he's wearing a cricket protector on his face.
Yeah, Homeworld's artwork isn't the best IMHO. Never been keen on that particular Predator.
Quote from: Tichinde on Sep 01, 2020, 06:53:59 AM
You know, this is slightly off topic and I still think it technically counts as spoilers but I always found this funny as hell
Spoiler
So since Kalakta is Greyback, we need to talk about this. Thanks to Predator 1718 we know what Greyback looks like in the 1700s, if you don't know here you go:
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d6/cf/4a/d6cf4a04551a8860b81b1f68b44fc73b.jpg)
Right so you see he has a nice green skin tone very healthy young man. Now obviously, that's from 1718 and when we next see him it's in 1997, which is about 297 years. Now we know that Yautja are extremely long lived, some even said to have hailed from ancient Egypt times to now, and even the Ancient Yautja from Predator: Homeworld still has his nice green hued skin tone:
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/da/e3/92/dae3926fb510f0d976802a4bb998e96a.jpg)
And I could keep naming off Yautja who aged beautifully and had way more than 300 years to barely change at all, Hell I think Paul Anderson implies Chopper is like 100 years old and Chopper is a youngblood. But what you have to remember about this is that Greyback was the poor bastard who went from a bright green to this:
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/avp/images/0/06/ElderP2crop.jpg/revision/latest/top-crop/width/360/height/360?cb=20150129075136)
Which is just funny, because the headcanon explanation I have come up with is that Greyback simply got stuck with the worst genetic template in Yautja history.
Anyway, rant over. I just always found that premature aging amusing
Yeah, with these Yautja, it's certainly seems like it's not the age but the mileage. Excepting some of the books which I haven't read, the oldest Yauts we appear to have seen have been Kalakta who, as you've pointed out has at least a 974 year span that we've seen. We can assume he's fairly young in that first appearance, and yeah, he's probably seen a lot of action between his first and second appearances, but he probably has that Steve Martin/Patrick Stewart silver fox thing going on as well. From the culture bits that
have been shown in the EU, many of the clans seem to operate on a meritocracy, so youngish clan leaders are certainly plausible and likely. There have also been hints about royalty and revered bloodlines out there too, so if their cultures are
at least as diverse as ours, which they should be, it can be assumed that there might be a Shia & Sunni kind of dynamic going on, like factions supporting merit vs birthright. But anyway, I digress...
The other eldest we've seen are that crusty Shaman dude from Homeworld with the cricket protector looking mask. These "Homeworld" guys are really interesting because it seems like the elder is some kind of preacher on a mission to save the youth of some backwoods green-trash clans, likely descended from the banished, the isolationist, or otherwise disgraced from greater pred society. These teenage hooligans appear to have succumbed to the charms of space-satanic ritualism, and the yautja-sacrifice that inevitably goes along with it, and our preacher/shaman elder has to go hunt down the worst of wayward punks and nip some badbloods in the bud. There's a lot of ambiguity in Homeworld and I kind of love it.
The oldest and most haggard elder we've seen has been Old Dragon from Predator Xenogenesis and his 1000 year battle with Subotai, we have no idea how old he was when he started their feud, but we've seen a lot of youngbloods cutting their mandibles on Earth, so it's possible he could have been fairly young as well at the start.
So nothing definitive has ever been stated, but on average it seems like a factor of 10x years can be applied to Yauts as compared to humans when it comes to normal-ish life spans. But science and alien biology is a hell of drug so there's always wiggle room for statistical outliers.