Posted by Corporal Hicks
- Sep 13, 2016, 08:47:33 AMhttps://www.facebook.com/alienidentity/videos/1792018031037767/
A little piece of none-news from Biehn at a Q&A following a showing of Aliens at the weekend.
A little piece of none-news from Biehn at a Q&A following a showing of Aliens at the weekend.
Posted by Russ
- Aug 26, 2016, 02:03:29 PMQuote from: Kurai on Aug 26, 2016, 01:44:38 PMQuote from: Russ on Aug 26, 2016, 08:30:55 AM
It IS a shame that it has to be retconned,
This is a bit of a fallacy that I see being thrown around a lot, nothing HAS to be retconned, things would be simpler and more logical without the retcon. It is pure choice of the director/writer/Weaver.
Another thing to think about is that nothing is set in stone...
Fox have been taking a very hands on approach with the canon lately and one of the main things included in four of the recent canonical novels? Alien Resurrection continuity.
Dark Horse hasn't quite reached far past Aliens yet so there's no way to tell if they're going that way as well.
But all we have to go on is words that will most likely have to be changed since we, the public, know too much about them already. Movie companies aren't too big on that pre-trailer usually.
I feel that this may just end up in a bait-and-switch for poor Blomkamp if Fox hasn't learned a lesson from recent partial reboots.
I read the first novel, I didn't get around to the others to be honest. I thought the Ash thing was neat though - and getting another Ripley adventure PRE-Aliens was pretty clever thinking.
You're right - no one knows how its going to play out, there are a tonne of different guesses. I'm in the conservative "it was all a cryodream" camp, but on here I've seen some way out stuff about clones and all sorts. But for me, that's the one that makes the most sense ("Can we dream?" "Yes - we can dream all the way home...") .
Posted by Master
- Aug 26, 2016, 02:00:53 PMSome should rewatch A3 and A:R instead of bitching about Hik n Nuts. More facts less imagination.
Posted by HuDaFuK
- Aug 26, 2016, 01:49:14 PMQuote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 26, 2016, 02:50:18 AMShe had a complete grasp of the English language with accent. As time went by, more and more was coming back to her. That's wholesale.
She only has memories at all because of the Alien DNA mixed up with hers, because the Alien apparently has genetic memory. Even the scientists are like, "Dafuq?" when they discover she can speak and remember things from Ripely's life, because that shouldn't be possible.
Posted by Kurai
- Aug 26, 2016, 01:44:38 PMQuote from: Russ on Aug 26, 2016, 08:30:55 AM
It IS a shame that it has to be retconned,
This is a bit of a fallacy that I see being thrown around a lot, nothing HAS to be retconned, things would be simpler and more logical without the retcon. It is pure choice of the director/writer/Weaver.
Another thing to think about is that nothing is set in stone...
Fox have been taking a very hands on approach with the canon lately and one of the main things included in four of the recent canonical novels? Alien Resurrection continuity.
Dark Horse hasn't quite reached far past Aliens yet so there's no way to tell if they're going that way as well.
But all we have to go on is words that will most likely have to be changed since we, the public, know too much about them already. Movie companies aren't too big on that pre-trailer usually.
I feel that this may just end up in a bait-and-switch for poor Blomkamp if Fox hasn't learned a lesson from recent partial reboots.
Posted by Russ
- Aug 26, 2016, 11:05:01 AMQuote from: g2vd on Aug 26, 2016, 10:33:00 AMQuoteI think my point is - if Hicks and Newt were handled properly in 3, Rippers died in 3...But why? isn't there something else you can actually critique about the movie other than the fact it hadn't handled a character right? I mean anything? anything at all?
Sure. Tell me how the facehugger got there that isn't fan extrapolation. From the get go, the whole thing is balderdash. Which is a shame because 3 is a horrid, bleak, depressing, grey, morbid, nasty movie. As it should be. It's SO good in parts - the tone is spot on.
To the characters: Like I said, its bit like the new Game of Thrones starting with the dwarf saying "It's a bit shit that Danyeris fell off the boat and drowned."
I've no gripes with killing them - I'm all FOR killing them. But these were characters that had survived, were invested in etc etc. Kill them by all means, but kill them off in a way that has some meaning and resonance and actually fits with the previous story. That's all. As SIL says, it would have been better to kill Hicks in Aliens - have him talking to Rippers and he's the one that gets stabbed by the Queen.
Interesting - as I type, I realise that if THAT had happened, I don't think that finding out in 3 that Bishop had been crushed up when the pod crash lands is a big an issue as the Hicks thing to me at any rate.
Newt, on the other hand, was central to Rippers arc. And ceases to be anything meaningful when "she drowned."
So, if you're going to have a sequel, for me at any rate, you need to pay some sort of attention to the previous movie. Not have things happen that are impossible. They don't even bother (as far as I remember) to explain anything about the facehugger getting on board. Now, as I say above, if we see a chestburster exploding out Newt when she's in cryosleep and that causes all the mayhem we can at least have a line about "I thought I'd saved her in the Hive... I thought she was safe. But they got to her already. She was dead already and none of us knew it..." Then we can think "Ah, right. That's a bit bollocks but I see what you did there."
As it stands... it doesn't make any sense. Which is tragic because - despite all the troubles - the Assembly cut especially - ticks ALL the boxes.
Quote from: g2vd on Aug 26, 2016, 10:33:00 AMQuoteI wish AvP had been R-RatedIndeed though it was almost ridiculous how sanitized AVP was, I mean the Chestburster didn't even have any blood on it The Chestburster!. which is pretty ridiculous considering the PG-13 Horror-Comedy Tremors Series had some pretty gnarly Human gore effects at times even the TV Series had quite a bit of nasty gore.
I guess its of its time, right? Predator was 18. Blade was 18. Hell, Aliens was 18. Looking at them now, they're not even 15s. So Tremors (i've not seen) is for a more modern audience.
Honestly, of all the "celebs" I'd want to chat with off the record, Anderson is right at the top of my list. I'd really love to know what he wanted to do, why it wasn't done that way and so on. He'll never go on record, the dude is a jobbing director who moves from genre franchise to genre franchise with some panache, flying in the face of horrid reviews to nearly always turn in profitable movies.
But yes... i'll always think it was a missed opportunity. But as I read often on this and other forums - its the movie business. More bums on seats for a 15 movie, more ability to market it, sell the toys and the comics (teens read comics was I'm sure the conventional wisdom at that time) - they'd have to censor the blood to get the rating approved.
On the whole, though - its still one of my favourites in the franchise (I love that they're watching "Dracula vs Woflman" in the opening scene. Anderson was well aware of what he ended up making and this is a really funny nod / dig I think).
Posted by g2vd
- Aug 26, 2016, 10:33:00 AMQuoteI think my point is - if Hicks and Newt were handled properly in 3, Rippers died in 3...But why? isn't there something else you can actually critique about the movie other than the fact it hadn't handled a character right? I mean anything? anything at all?
QuoteI wish AvP had been R-RatedIndeed though it was almost ridiculous how sanitized AVP was, I mean the Chestburster didn't even have any blood on it The Chestburster!. which is pretty ridiculous considering the PG-13 Horror-Comedy Tremors Series had some pretty gnarly Human gore effects at times even the TV Series had quite a bit of nasty gore.
Posted by Russ
- Aug 26, 2016, 08:30:55 AMQuote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 25, 2016, 04:28:22 PM
Neither is the quality of Alien 3 or Resurrection's quality based on a lack of Hicks or Newt. They need the right people behind these films, the right team. Alien is more than just Ripley and more than just Weaver.
Perhaps this whole passing of the torch thing that Biehn keeps talking about (and I've heard it elsewhere too) might finally be the move on from Fox's relance on that name. It's just a shame it takes a retcon to get there.
The quality of Alien3 - no, I'd have to agree, but as I've been banging on about is that the characters and situations were just poorly handled in 3. But as you say, you need the right people behind the films.
The passing the torch thing I agree with - I'm sure neither Ripley or Hicks will make it out of 5 - they shouldn't (or if they do have it made clear that they're not coming back in anyway shape or form).
It IS a shame that it has to be retconned, though. I think my point is - if Hicks and Newt were handled properly in 3, Rippers died in 3... I don't think that A:R matters so much in the continuity because that's in the future and much more easily retconned or just... not dealt with.
But to go back a step - right people / right team is essential. Blomkammp has all the right credentials - as did, I have to say, Paul WS Anderson. He gave a shit. Blomkamp gives a shit. It's really now what Fox will let him do.
Say what you will - Event Horizon might as well sit along side Outland as "unofficial alien verse movie" - it was brilliant. But Fox wanted a cheap movie made in a Prauge warehouse that they KNEW WS could turn in. I wish AvP had been R-Rated, I wish that Anderson's original concepts (which from the Special Features seem far more wide reaching than what the studio actually approved) were borne out - I think he's a great Alienverse candidate. Or would have been, given some latitude.
Enter Blomkaamp, a chappie (see what I did there) with similar credentials and similar fannish love for the series. So - on circumstantial evidence... the right man for the job. BUT... will he be allowed to write the story he - and many - want to tell?
My guess is that with Covenant admitting that the "real" Alien is back, perhaps the success of that film will have a bearing on 5 (am I right in thinking its Covenant - then Covenant sequel - THEN Alien 5). If the audience desire for Alien movies is proven, he may be given the budget and the levity do what he wants.
But I'll eat my metaphorical hat if the 3 and A:R aren't hypersleep dreams as we've discussed many times. It's shit, I agree... but for me, its the only way to be sure.
Posted by Kurai
- Aug 26, 2016, 03:06:42 AMQuote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 26, 2016, 02:50:18 AM
She had a complete grasp of the English language with accent. As time went by, more and more was coming back to her. That's wholesale.
Not right from the start, we get given scenes where she doesn't understand fully but is catching on very fast, such as asking what a fork is and then calling it a f**k.
We also don't know the various time gaps between scenes before the Betty arrives.
Also, Language Savants are a thing:
https://www.wisconsinmedicalsociety.org/professional/savant-syndrome/resources/articles/the-polyglot-language-savant/
Posted by SM
- Aug 26, 2016, 03:04:01 AMIf by "wholesale" you mean "it's made quite clear there are large gaps in her memory".
Posted by Perfect-Organism
- Aug 26, 2016, 02:50:18 AMShe had a complete grasp of the English language with accent. As time went by, more and more was coming back to her. That's wholesale.
Posted by Kurai
- Aug 26, 2016, 02:34:53 AMRipley 8 was very much her own character, she learned things far faster than normal and she had some latent memories but nothing too out there. The fork scene comes to mind. XD
The rest was just filled in by the army people.
The rest was just filled in by the army people.
Posted by Perfect-Organism
- Aug 26, 2016, 02:14:32 AMYes it did. How did it not?
Posted by SM
- Aug 26, 2016, 01:59:03 AMResurrection didn't present wholesale storage of completely detailed memories in drops of blood.
Posted by Perfect-Organism
- Aug 25, 2016, 07:05:16 PMQuote from: Kurai on Aug 25, 2016, 05:54:57 PMQuote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 25, 2016, 05:24:16 PM
The Alien films used to be grounded in reality. But Alien Resurrection brought us a clone who has all her memories intact from just a few droplets of blood. Then there is Prometheus which allows the reading of dreams and the reactivation of dead people with a syringe doo-hickey. I mean that was basically what that technology was which they used to reanimate the Engineer who was essentially human.
Retconning Alien 3 will do away with the madness of Alien Resurrection. The only reason why the whole resurrection-device is tolerable in Prometheus is because overall the movie is just so damn good. It actually gets better with age.
A:R's clones are fairly easily explained by the binding of Alien DNA within Ripley, multiple sources from the expanded universe have put forward, before A:R, that the Aliens have a genetic memory and a hive mind, so that's perfectly believable. On a scientific side, there is research going into whether phobias are sometimes passed down genetically, so there's that.
Genetic Memory:
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/genetic-memory-how-we-know-things-we-never-learned/
Genetically Inherited Fear:
https://www.rewireme.com/insight/can-phobias-be-inherited-genetically/
As for Prometheus and dream reading, there is again research going into that sort of thing these days with some successes, though the idea of perfectly edited and shot dreams may be a bit far fetched.
The reanimation of the Engineer head was thanks to the Synapse Reestablisher.
http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Synapse_Reestablisher
Basically they did what people have been doing for centuries just in a more advanced fashion. They're sending electrical impulses to the various synapses to cause muscle movement and activity in the head. Many experiments have done similar things going all the way back to the time public beheadings were legal in Europe.
http://gizmodo.com/5504746/how-a-real-life-dr-frankenstein-reanimated-the-dead-with-electricity
A well researched, and interesting response. Thanks. These were a good read.
I am not sure I would buy the wholesale storage of completely detailed memories in drops of blood. I can understand phobias, and certain life and death scenarios being hard wired into our genetic memories, but a language, and specific event memories? Come on. It was a desperate ploy on behalf of the writers to find a way to bring Ripley back. It made the movie somewhat cheap, but I will still enjoy this film as an alternate reality attempt.
The reanimation of the Engineer's head in Prometheus indeed made no sense to me until the article you pointed out. I guess that could work, and there was no implication that the engineer actually "came back to life".
