Katherine Waterston Cast as Daniels

Started by hfeldhaus, Dec 17, 2015, 11:51:13 PM

Author
Katherine Waterston Cast as Daniels (Read 32,389 times)

Mr. Clemens

As much as I'd like to see a break from tradition, I can't help but feel that woman vs. alien just works better than man vs. alien would. It's a more interesting dynamic. Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for endless Ripley clones (no pun intended), but a female protagonist just puts me in a different (and better) headspace than a male one would.

Perfect-Organism

Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Dec 23, 2015, 12:20:59 AM
As much as I'd like to see a break from tradition, I can't help but feel that woman vs. alien just works better than man vs. alien would. It's a more interesting dynamic. Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for endless Ripley clones (no pun intended), but a female protagonist just puts me in a different (and better) headspace than a male one would.

Good point.  It seems kind of hokey for a guy to fight a phallic monster..

Olde

Olde

#47
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Dec 23, 2015, 12:20:59 AM
As much as I'd like to see a break from tradition, I can't help but feel that woman vs. alien just works better than man vs. alien would. It's a more interesting dynamic. Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for endless Ripley clones (no pun intended), but a female protagonist just puts me in a different (and better) headspace than a male one would.
Why? Because women are more sensitive than men? Because women are more maternal than men? Women are more innocent than men? Women are more vulnerable than men? What makes you just assume that a female dynamic would be more interesting than a male one?

Yeah, let's not even entertain the idea that a male lead could be just as good if not better than a female one. There should no discernible difference in dynamic between a female and alien than a male and alien because guess what? Men and women are both humans. If the whole series had used male leads up to this point, you can bet your ass that the series would be getting shit for not having a female lead, but let's not even consider having a male one because you opine that it just works better, despite the fact that a male has never been given a chance of a lead role.

It's not sexist or anything to just assume that a woman would be more fit for the role of lead actor in an Alien movie than a man despite the fact that no man has ever been given that role before.

Spoiler
Oh wait, yes it is.
[close]

HuDaFuK

Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Dec 23, 2015, 12:20:59 AMAs much as I'd like to see a break from tradition, I can't help but feel that woman vs. alien just works better than man vs. alien would.

I don't see why. A man getting skull-f*cked by an alien penis tongue is no more or less disturbing than having it happen to a woman.

I honestly think switching it up and going with a male lead might be a great thing for the series, if only to dispel the usual Ripley comparisons we inevitably get every time they cast yet another female lead.

Perfect-Organism

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Dec 23, 2015, 08:49:57 AM
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Dec 23, 2015, 12:20:59 AMAs much as I'd like to see a break from tradition, I can't help but feel that woman vs. alien just works better than man vs. alien would.

I don't see why. A man getting skull-f*cked by an alien penis tongue is no more or less disturbing than having it happen to a woman.

I honestly think switching it up and going with a male lead might be a great thing for the series, if only to dispel the usual Ripley comparisons we inevitably get every time they cast yet another female lead.

An interesting compromise would be to have a male android as the lead...

Mr. Clemens

Quote from: Olde on Dec 23, 2015, 04:38:08 AM
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Dec 23, 2015, 12:20:59 AM
As much as I'd like to see a break from tradition, I can't help but feel that woman vs. alien just works better than man vs. alien would. It's a more interesting dynamic. Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for endless Ripley clones (no pun intended), but a female protagonist just puts me in a different (and better) headspace than a male one would.
Why? Because women are more sensitive than men? Because women are more maternal than men? Women are more innocent than men? Women are more vulnerable than men? What makes you just assume that a female dynamic would be more interesting than a male one?

Yeah, let's not even entertain the idea that a male lead could be just as good if not better than a female one. There should no discernible difference in dynamic between a female and alien than a male and alien because guess what? Men and women are both humans. If the whole series had used male leads up to this point, you can bet your ass that the series would be getting shit for not having a female lead, but let's not even consider having a male one because you opine that it just works better, despite the fact that a male has never been given a chance of a lead role.

It's not sexist or anything to just assume that a woman would be more fit for the role of lead actor in an Alien movie than a man despite the fact that no man has ever been given that role before.

Spoiler
Oh wait, yes it is.
[close]

Wow... whole lotta hate coming off of you, there.

Anyway, I've said it's how I feel. Having a woman as the viewpoint character just puts me in a different headspace than would a man. You don't feel that way. I think you've proved that you and I are two different people!  ;D

Perfect-Organism

Quote from: Olde on Dec 23, 2015, 04:38:08 AM
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Dec 23, 2015, 12:20:59 AM
As much as I'd like to see a break from tradition, I can't help but feel that woman vs. alien just works better than man vs. alien would. It's a more interesting dynamic. Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for endless Ripley clones (no pun intended), but a female protagonist just puts me in a different (and better) headspace than a male one would.
Why? Because women are more sensitive than men? Because women are more maternal than men? Women are more innocent than men? Women are more vulnerable than men? What makes you just assume that a female dynamic would be more interesting than a male one?

Yeah, let's not even entertain the idea that a male lead could be just as good if not better than a female one. There should no discernible difference in dynamic between a female and alien than a male and alien because guess what? Men and women are both humans. If the whole series had used male leads up to this point, you can bet your ass that the series would be getting shit for not having a female lead, but let's not even consider having a male one because you opine that it just works better, despite the fact that a male has never been given a chance of a lead role.

It's not sexist or anything to just assume that a woman would be more fit for the role of lead actor in an Alien movie than a man despite the fact that no man has ever been given that role before.

Spoiler
Oh wait, yes it is.
[close]

You know coming in and flaming people like this makes it impossible to have a normal, civilized conversation.  Lighten up.

david8

david8

#52
You know what, she does look a lot like Amanda Ripley from Isolation, even though I don't think that's who she'll be. Still, Ridley did tease a link to Rips, but I doubt it has anything to do with Daniels, that'd be far too on the nose. Haven't seen Waterston in anything apart from Inherent Vice, but heard she was quite good in Steve Jobs.  I really hope they go with the original classic space suits from the original, I'm imagining Waterston in the classic helmet; I think she'll look great in it.

SpreadEagleBeagle

SpreadEagleBeagle

#53
The reason I think a female protagonist, or an android protagonist, works so well in a Alien movie has to do with the actual monster, just like I find male protagonists more fitting in a Predator movie. It doesn't have to do with any kind of sexism and gender limits; I'm not saying that either gender, for some reason, is more fit and able to fight the Alien rather than the Predator and vice versa. It's more on a theoretical, philosophical, mythological and archetypical level. It has more to do with perceived femininity, masculinity, androgyny and amorphism.

The Alien is usually referred to as a she or it, whereas the Predator usually is referred to as a he. The Alien represents a nightmarish & amorphous femininity, and mechanical psychosexuality - it's fleshy and mechanic at the same time, it has no ego, it has no feelings or emotions yet it breeds. It's intrusive and invasive. It wants your body to propagate. It's a bringer of life.

The Predator represents beast-like & exaggerated masculinity, and organic asexuality - it's muscular and polished at the same time, it has a big ego, it has feelings and emotions but is figuratively unable to breed. It's unreachable and exclusive. It wants your body for a trophy. It's a bringer of death.

The Predator is a purely masculine, asexual and egocentric killer whereas the Alien is an amorphously androgynous, psychosexual and egoless breeder. One is a polished Greek god from hell, the other is a representation of Mother Earth in the most nightmarish kind of way. They represent two different archetypes.

This is alluring, at least to me, as you're pitting a human archetype against its monstrous counterpart. It turns into a nemesis fight. It represents the endless struggle. David vs. Goliath. So when the protagonist in an Alien movie is either a woman or an android, it works as the underdog equivalent to the Alien, just like a male protagonist in a Predator movie works as the underdog equivalent to the Predator. If you switch the two you theoretically and archetypically get a different dynamic.

A female main protagonist in a Predator movie would technically bring an underlying feminist and anti-patriarcal discourse and dimension to the movie. Revolution against authority.

A male main protagonist in an Alien movie on the other hand would bring an underlying struggle for familiarity and traditional hegemony to the table. Man versus Mother Nature.


Ok... SUPER PRETENTIOUS, I know, but that's my mumbo-jumbo wannabe schoolar analysis on why I rather have female (or android) main-characters in Alien movies and male main characters in Predator movies. With that said, I'm absolutely sure we can break the mold and have excellent male main-characters in Alien movies and vice versa.

windebieste

What if Brett (Stanton) or Burke (Reiser) or even David (Postlethwaite) were the sole survivors in any of their respective movies?  They're all male, but fall outside of any macho or heroic stereotype and they deserved to survive as anyone.  Neither of these actors are known for slinging chain-guns across their shoulders and mowing down antagonists.  I don't think it's a gender issue - I think it's a character issue.  Throw a decently realised and fully developed Male character into the role of Ripley and it should be just as valid.  All the roles in the movie were initially interchangeable when they were cast, anyway.

I'll agree it was a great choice to have Ripley be a women for the shock value of being the sole survivor at the end of 'ALIEN' but the audience has moved on since 1979.  As it stands right now, the whole 'strong-willed' woman as survivor is as cliched as this series can get.  It's no surprise Lexa Woods survived the pyramid.  It's nothing new that Amanda Ripley escaped Sevastopol.  It was no surprise that Shaw... well, you get what I mean.   What if Lambert, a character that audiences could more readily relate to had escaped aboard the Narcissus instead of Ripley? 

I honestly believe that this female character template has been getting tired now for some time and is due for a change.  One of the great things about the first movie is how normal people going about their daily working lives were forced to cope with an extraordinary situation.  I would like to see a return to that premise where the survivor(s) were no longer predictable.   

Isn't that the point of these movies in the first place?   There's no reason why it couldn't be a man or a woman... and now that I think of it, someone more highly strung like Lambert, desperately escaping would be quite the change this series needs. 

-Windebieste.

NickisSmart

It's called the Final Girl trope for a reason. It's been done to death in horror films for decades. Go watch Psycho, where Marion Crane buys the farm halfway through the flick. Lovely twist, and I wish more movies play with audience expectations like that. Even something like Deep Blue Sea, which, while not a great film, still has fun with the way it treats its characters in semi-unpredictable ways. Though, in that one, the obvious choice for the protagonist/anti-hero lives to the end, and the ol' Chekhov's Gun bit early on. Like Top Dollar said, "It's all been done before, see what I'm sayin'."

In my opinion, Alien: Isolation proved that the Final Girl trope worked fairly well, though it was a given that you'd probably make it to the end of the game (though something that isn't always the case, like in Red Dead: Redemption) as the main protagonist. And the characters that you meet along the way usually all die horrible deaths. That's kind of a given with this series. Just about everyone dies. I think it'd be interesting if the alien won, for a change. What if everyone died at the end of the film except the alien, like in Ridley's original ending? Maybe not the parts where it talks, but still. I love bad endings in horror films and the survivors are always surviving. I want an Alien film where the alien wins and all the humans die.

SpreadEagleBeagle

Quote from: NickisSmart on Dec 24, 2015, 12:48:25 PM
What if everyone died at the end of the film except the alien, like in Ridley's original ending? Maybe not the parts where it talks, but still. I love bad endings in horror films and the survivors are always surviving. I want an Alien film where the alien wins and all the humans die.

Yes please. That would be really refreshing. A3 kind of broke the mold, and in a very original and unique way, so why not go all in in one of the coming Alien movies? Would be kind of funny if they did it in A5 after pretty much resurrecting Hicks, Newt and Ripley and then just have them all killed by the end of the movie  8)

windebieste

As long as it's done in a noble and dignified way and getting 'the ending they deserve', then I guess Ripley and Hicks dying yet again would be acceptable to some fans.

...or to put it another way...

Oh the Stupid, it BURNS!

If we were to see Morse return in 'ALIEN 5' instead, now, that would be great!  Bring back that argumentative prick. He'd make a Great anti-hero.  Actually,  yeah.  As much as I love Ripley and Hicks I'd trade 'em both in for Morse. 

Let's hear it from the man himself.  Waddya think, Morse?  I asked him and this is what he said about 'ALIEN5 ', "We ain't got no entertainment center, no climate control, no video system, no surveillance, no freezers, no f**king ice cream, no rubbers, no Ripley, no Hicks. All we got here is shit!"

-Windebieste.

NickisSmart

If it were a human buffet, I'd prefer new characters. Fresh characters. Like Daisy Ridley's Rey in the new Star Wars. It'd be fun to see if the film makers could get us to care about the character(s) in question before killing them off before the movie ends. It worked in Terminator 1, with Kyle Reese. It worked in Alien, with Parker and Brett. All they have to do is make it happen to the protagonist for something a little different. Though Alien was essentially a huge experiment in its own right, designed to defy audience expectations. Hell, watching the first film on its own, it's hard to tell who the hero is going to be. Ripley could have gone into the vents instead of Dallas, for instance. The first film is my favorite because there's no central, heroic character, really. The alien could have just as easily killed Ripley at any point in the film. All the crew were equally vulnerable. No one was safe.

𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔈𝔦𝔤𝔥𝔱𝔥 𝔓𝔞𝔰𝔰𝔢𝔫𝔤𝔢𝔯

Quote from: windebieste on Dec 25, 2015, 02:32:14 AM
If we were to see Morse return in 'ALIEN 5' instead, now, that would be great!  Bring back that argumentative prick. He'd make a Great anti-hero.  Actually,  yeah.  As much as I love Ripley and Hicks I'd trade 'em both in for Morse. 

Let's hear it from the man himself.  Waddya think, Morse?  I asked him and this is what he said about 'ALIEN5 ', "We ain't got no entertainment center, no climate control, no video system, no surveillance, no freezers, no f**king ice cream, no rubbers, no Ripley, no Hicks. All we got here is shit!"

-Windebieste.

Funnily enough, Danny Webb was at one point rumoured to star in Alien: Covenant back when it was still titled Prometheus 2. Not sure where the rumour originally came from but IMDb had him listed among the cast as well.

Quote from: Franchise HeraldSo far, "Prometheus 2" official returning cast members include only Noomi Rapace and Michael Fassbender. Danny Webb who appeared as Morse in the 1992 "Alien 3" film is rumored to return, but no official news on the matter has been released. Jan 5, 2015

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