Given the success of "Prey" on Hulu, I am curious to know, should the next Predator film be released in streaming or in theaters?
I think people would go see it but that depends upon the marketing and quality of the film, never underestimate the power of word of mouth.
Theatre if only to get a Blu-ray out of it afterwards. It sucks having nothing for Prey.
I'll always want to see a theatre release.
Hopefully, if that were to happen, they would increase the budget and keep the same amount of creative control as Prey.
Prey should be a good springboard, and a reminder that this franchise still has legs and quality.
With all that, along with good marketing, I think a lot of people would go out for a theatre release!
I personally prefer theater release first, then streaming/Blu-ray release.
Why not both?
Quote from: SiL on Sep 15, 2022, 01:12:13 AMWhy not both?
Release both in theaters and streaming at the same time? The problem is that it may hurt box office revenue. Legendary was not pleased with Warner Bros approach of releasing Godzilla vs Kong initially only on streamng. They had to sue WB to get a theater release for that film. Director Denis Villeneuve also slammed WB for a streaming and theater release at the same time for Dune.
Part of that was contracts tied to theatrical performance which were undermined by the dual release - the whole thrust of the problems with Black Widow behind the scenes.
Limited exclusive theatrical release then release on streaming. Let people watch the movie.
Quote from: SiL on Sep 16, 2022, 01:23:18 AMPart of that was contracts tied to theatrical performance which were undermined by the dual release - the whole thrust of the problems with Black Widow behind the scenes.
Limited exclusive theatrical release then release on streaming. Let people watch the movie.
Well, WB burned their bridges with leading directors with that approach in any case. Not a very smart move in hindsight. But those directors also have a legitimate point besides contracts and apportioning revenue. Some films are made for the big screen. To have it go straight to streaming removes the theater-going experience audience could have had otherwise.
It was a bad idea to tie bonuses and future film deals to theatrical performance and then release on streaming, circumventing their Contractual obligations.
Some directors complain about movies on small screens but most are happy for their work to be seen.
Quote from: SiL on Sep 16, 2022, 01:57:45 AMIt was a bad idea to tie bonuses and future film deals to theatrical performance and then release on streaming, circumventing their Contractual obligations.
Some directors complain about movies on small screens but most are happy for their work to be seen.
Maybe for Predator directors and Fox, especially if they are coming off a horrible sequel like the 2018 "The Predator". Although..."Prey" might restore some faith to the Disney executives of a potential theater release in the future.
But on the point about directors just happy for their work to be seen, not if you are a director of a caliber like Denis Vileneuve or Chris Nolan. Those A-list directors want their movies released in theaters. Good thing Nolan jumped ship to Universal from Warner Bros. In any case, WB is deep in the red now. New CEO David Zaslav discovered he inherited a big financial mess at WB due to the mismanagement from the prior decision makers at WB. The problems at WB goes way beyond just "Batgirl". They are running short of cash.
Those are the "some directors" I meant, but it's wrong to say all A list directors are precious about theatre vs streaming.
Prey doing well on streaming is a great argument to keep releasing Predator movies to streaming. They weren't doing great in theatre.
Quote from: SiL on Sep 16, 2022, 04:12:08 AMThose are the "some directors" I meant, but it's wrong to say all A list directors are precious about theatre vs streaming.
Prey doing well on streaming is a great argument to keep releasing Predator movies to streaming. They weren't doing great in theatre.
I don't know....how much box office revenue is Fox forsaking for streaming?
And I suspect quite a few A list diectors prefer theater release first...
What's one-off box office revenue to ongoing subscriptions? That's the new game. They don't want you to spend $15 on a ticket once or twice, then maybe another $20 on the blu-ray. They want you to pay $10 a month in perpetuity. There are less overheads, smaller marketing spends, and they don't have to split revenue with theatres and distributors.
Sure you can get a 30 day free trial, and if you know what you're doing you can get endless 30 day free trials, but the average punter is going to sign up for the free trial, forget to cancel, and get hit with some ongoing charges. And if they don't sell the movie on blu-ray or DVD, you have to have a subscription to watch it again later.
I don't like it, but I'd be lying if I said I don't get it.
And "quite a few" is still not "all". I understand a lot of A-list directors still believe in the prestige of the cinema, but others are coming around to the fact that audiences are moving on.
so thats how it works
ty
Quote from: SiL on Sep 16, 2022, 06:42:02 AMWhat's one-off box office revenue to ongoing subscriptions? That's the new game. They don't want you to spend $15 on a ticket once or twice, then maybe another $20 on the blu-ray. They want you to pay $10 a month in perpetuity. There are less overheads, smaller marketing spends, and they don't have to split revenue with theatres and distributors.
Sure you can get a 30 day free trial, and if you know what you're doing you can get endless 30 day free trials, but the average punter is going to sign up for the free trial, forget to cancel, and get hit with some ongoing charges. And if they don't sell the movie on blu-ray or DVD, you have to have a subscription to watch it again later.
I don't like it, but I'd be lying if I said I don't get it.
And "quite a few" is still not "all". I understand a lot of A-list directors still believe in the prestige of the cinema, but others are coming around to the fact that audiences are moving on.
I doubt that streaming model works out for every studio. People can choose to refuse to pay a monthly subscription. Not everyone is a die hard fan, who is willing to subscribe to Hulu just to watch a Predator movie. Disney will be shooting themselves in the foot in that case if they denied themselves the returns of a box office.
Besides, the streaming model is not without issues. Look at Netflix's current struggle with falling subscription. Paramount executives resisted the urge to release Top Gun: Maverick on streaming, and they wre handsomely rewarded with a 1.4+ billion dollar box office and still growing at this point. The new management at WB is cutting down the amount of content and new releases on HBO MAx because they do not believe in such reliance on the streaming model.
So no, I do not believe streaming will replace theaters. And you have not provided statistics to back-up your plan to show a majority directors prefer streaming over theater release.
We're not talking about every studio, we're talking Disney. Which has Marvel, Fox, Pixar and Lucasfilm, accounting for the most profitable properties in movie history. People will sign up to them. Meanwhile Netflix has lost many popular properties and their originals are struggling to keep it afloat.
Top Gun Maverick is a terrible example here. Predator movies don't make that much money in theatres. They never have. Prey has shown they're perfect for getting people to sign up and stay engaged with their streaming services.
For example, saying it's been watched for over a billion minutes sounds really impressive. But the movie is 100 minutes long. If that was made of people watching the whole movie, including credits, it's 10 million views. At $15 a ticket, that's $150 million - which the studio gets about half of.
Say they skip the credits but all watch. That only adds 10%.
Now consider all the people who only watched because it was on streaming, or only rewatched because it was on streaming.
It hasn't done that much better than previous entries. But costs were lower and the studio keeps everything and people sign up for ongoing payments so it's more profitable.
I think streaming will destroy itself eventually. It's not sustainable to have 10,000 streaming services vying for competition, and at some point anti trust and anti competitive laws are going to kick in and break them apart.
But the damage to going to the cinema is done for one simple reason: audiences like the convenience. Whether Nolan and Villeneuve or Tarantino or Lynch want you to see the movie in cinema or not is irrelevant. All that matters is where the audience decides they will go. And while the cinema is by no means dead, streaming has entrenched itself as an equal platform to audiences globally.
so then its more complex than i imagined. gone be an interesting few years coming for the movie industry . thats asuming there's a world "as we know it" a few years from now.
but a very interesting discussion. deserves its own thread.
https://www.androidauthority.com/movie-theaters-vs-streaming-services-3093835/
start quote:
Since Disney bought Lucasfilm, Marvel, and Fox, it has taken over a huge portion of the theatrical market, and it's betting on big titles with massive budgets at the expense of its own library of smaller new releases.
end quote
wow
Quote from: SiL on Sep 16, 2022, 10:23:25 AMWe're not talking about every studio, we're talking Disney. Which has Marvel, Fox, Pixar and Lucasfilm, accounting for the most profitable properties in movie history. People will sign up to them. Meanwhile Netflix has lost many popular properties and their originals are struggling to keep it afloat.
Top Gun Maverick is a terrible example here. Predator movies don't make that much money in theatres. They never have. Prey has shown they're perfect for getting people to sign up and stay engaged with their streaming services.
For example, saying it's been watched for over a billion minutes sounds really impressive. But the movie is 100 minutes long. If that was made of people watching the whole movie, including credits, it's 10 million views. At $15 a ticket, that's $150 million - which the studio gets about half of.
Say they skip the credits but all watch. That only adds 10%.
Now consider all the people who only watched because it was on streaming, or only rewatched because it was on streaming.
It hasn't done that much better than previous entries. But costs were lower and the studio keeps everything and people sign up for ongoing payments so it's more profitable.
I think streaming will destroy itself eventually. It's not sustainable to have 10,000 streaming services vying for competition, and at some point anti trust and anti competitive laws are going to kick in and break them apart.
But the damage to going to the cinema is done for one simple reason: audiences like the convenience. Whether Nolan and Villeneuve or Tarantino or Lynch want you to see the movie in cinema or not is irrelevant. All that matters is where the audience decides they will go. And while the cinema is by no means dead, streaming has entrenched itself as an equal platform to audiences globally.
Well, you sounded like you were making a generalized statement about streaming, so I have to correct that. As for Predator, they did well enough in theaters to have sequels. Yes, you are right, the Predator franchise was never a mega box office champion like Marvel or Harry Potter franchises. But in general, Predator films made money. I mean, the logic is pretty simple. Leaving aside Hollywood accounting, if Predator did not make money, we wouldn't be getting sequels now, would we?
And I disagree, Top Gun is a perfectly valid example, because it shows movie in theaters still make money. It might not be the same type of film as Predator movies, but I remember at the height of the pandemic, some folks were saying streaming would kill off theaters for good. Well, that didn't happen.
As for Hulu, I'm glad Disney deemed it a success. But that is seen in isolation. We have no idea whether the next Predator sequel will be just as successful on streaming. There are people who would pay a theater ticket to see Prey but would NOT subscribe to Hulu just to watch Prey.
It seems rather short-sighted, if not downright foolish as a long-term business strategy, to put all your eggs in the streaming basket and give up on theaters or Home media release.
Bottom line, streaming has provided an extra avenue for film release, but it has not, and will not, replace theater release as a whole.
I never said movies don't make money in theatres any more, and I flat out said the cinema isn't dead. I've been talking Predator movies.
The mid budget film has almost completely been pushed out of cinema and into streaming. I'm not saying this is good or defending it as sensible (and I've said before that I disagree with it), but it's just what it is.
Studios know they need to either spend obscenely large or obscenely small amounts of money for cinema to be terribly attractive at the moment. Predator movies fall into the middle. They won't make the hundreds of millions, or over a billion, that big blockbusters will; but they also don't cost little enough for what they will make to be hugely beneficial.
But those kinds of movies are perfect for getting people to sign up and stay signed up for an ongoing monthly transaction.
In cinemas. With streaming it's like a product doesn't feel official. At least to me.
As long as it features a 'Winston' faced pred, both would do it.
Quote from: SiL on Sep 16, 2022, 08:18:51 PMI never said movies don't make money in theatres any more, and I flat out said the cinema isn't dead. I've been talking Predator movies.
The mid budget film has almost completely been pushed out of cinema and into streaming. I'm not saying this is good or defending it as sensible (and I've said before that I disagree with it), but it's just what it is.
But those kinds of movies are perfect for getting people to sign up and stay signed up for an ongoing monthly transaction.
Mid-budget movies...hmm. I think some of the independent studios might be taking up that niche now neglected by the major studios. A24 has a smash hit in "Everything Everywhere all at Once", they are the ones willing to take risks on more quirky and original movies that the major studios aren't willing to make anymore. And Jordan Peele's horror movies, like his latest Nope, arguably a somewhat mid-budget movie (compared to Marvel movies anyway), has been doing pretty well in theaters.
Prey...I would like to know how many people actually signed up to Hulu just for Prey. Not that Disney would release those statistics. How many people would have seen it in theaters but won't bother signing up just to watch it on Hulu vs those willing to sign up to watch it on Hulu...because that would settle the debate between us.
I didn't realise we were having a debate.
Hybrid release. Not that I had any inclination to watch them, but Netflix gave theatrical releases to Red Notice and The Gray Man.
Quote from: SiL on Sep 18, 2022, 01:48:57 AMI didn't realise we were having a debate.
You think streaming will rule the future at the expense of traditional cinema. I...have some doubts about that.
Release it in both.
There's a good chance it will as Prey was so successful.
Quote from: Cougerboy on Sep 21, 2022, 10:05:13 AMQuote from: SiL on Sep 18, 2022, 01:48:57 AMI didn't realise we were having a debate.
You think streaming will rule the future at the expense of traditional cinema. I...have some doubts about that.
I said "cinema isn't dead", "I think streaming will destroy itself" and "I don't agree with [studio streaming policies]" so I'm not sure who you're replying to here.
Acknowledging that the landscape of film distribution has been changed by streaming isn't really up for debate.
With the current climate, streaming. The 2018 film is an in-series example of how theatrical films nowadays are more focused on appealing to a mass audience (on an unprecedented level) rather than being... films. Thatrical producers want to squeeze as much as possible and have too much power. With streaming, there's less pressure, at the cost of not being able to experience the film in a theater.
At least with the way things are now.
Quote from: SiL on Sep 21, 2022, 11:00:22 PMQuote from: Cougerboy on Sep 21, 2022, 10:05:13 AMQuote from: SiL on Sep 18, 2022, 01:48:57 AMI didn't realise we were having a debate.
You think streaming will rule the future at the expense of traditional cinema. I...have some doubts about that.
I said "cinema isn't dead", "I think streaming will destroy itself" and "I don't agree with [studio streaming policies]" so I'm not sure who you're replying to here.
Acknowledging that the landscape of film distribution has been changed by streaming isn't really up for debate.
I said there is still space for some mid budget movie while you said there is none. That is the issue. Why is that not up for debate???
I didn't say that, no.
Streaming, and keep the budget low.
I like the dual release approach with something like theatrical run for a week and then release to streaming. Mainly because that it would have been great to see Prey in theaters and have a UHD blu-ray release, imo.
As SiL mentioned around subscriptions, there are a decent number of people that are part of movie theater subscription programs that could fall into both camps; watching it upon release in the theater and then having some re-watches while at home.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 12, 2022, 07:04:45 PMI didn't say that, no.
Why do I get the feeling you seem to have an interest in seeing streaming exclusive release?
Quote from: Cougerboy on Jan 21, 2023, 01:54:29 AMWhy do I get the feeling you seem to have an interest in seeing streaming exclusive release?
Because you haven't bothered trying to understand a single thing I've written in this thread and are tilting at windmills.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 12, 2021, 10:00:37 PMNo release on physical media?
https://c.tenor.com/ZzXuqddCRnIAAAAC/neil-patrick-harris-nph.gif
Both.....why not both?
has a thread been created on this site discussing streaming vs theatre vs physical media?
Quote from: SiL on Jan 21, 2023, 08:29:45 PMQuote from: Cougerboy on Jan 21, 2023, 01:54:29 AMWhy do I get the feeling you seem to have an interest in seeing streaming exclusive release?
Because you haven't bothered trying to understand a single thing I've written in this thread and are tilting at windmills.
Or maybe you just have a real problem dealing with people who don't agree with you. Moving goalposts, denying what you said, etc, I've seen all those kind of tricks before. The world have diverse opinons, accept that.
Quote from: Cougerboy on Jan 26, 2023, 07:55:31 AMOr maybe you just have a real problem dealing with people who don't agree with you. Moving goalposts, denying what you said, etc, I've seen all those kind of tricks before. The world have diverse opinons, accept that.
I already quoted myself saying I don't like streaming only, I think it'll fail in the long run, and I personally like physical media.
I will take Prey Limited Run just to get it.
Hmm, if you'd asked me this 15 years ago, the answer would have been "Cinema!! Always theatrical release!!" I used to visit the cinema several times a week, and if I liked the movie, pay for multiple viewings (D-theatre, IMAX, D-box etc depending upon options).
These days? I just won't go unless it's an Alien or Evil Dead movie (my two fave franchises).. why? People just suck these days... people think it's ok to talk during a movie, you see phone screens lighting up in the audience throughout the film, murmuring, excessive rattling of snack wrappers... people talk loudly throughout the trailers like it's not part of the cinema experience... it's just not enjoyable anymore. You have to either plan ahead (like a Tuesday lunchtime at a retail park so you know everyone will either be at work/college/uni/school or eating lunch - and even then you get an empty screen with maybe two older couples who think because the screen is empty the few others of us in there can't hear their conversations throughout) or, in the case of what I'm doing for Evil Dead Rise this April - pay £150-200 for a private screening at off peak times.
So yeah, I love the cinema, I don't like cinema audiences. And for that, I'm grateful for streaming releases now. A compromise for me would be limited streaming exclusive with physical media to follow.
Quote from: Acid_Reign161 on Jan 31, 2023, 03:06:08 PMHmm, if you'd asked me this 15 years ago, the answer would have been "Cinema!! Always theatrical release!!" I used to visit the cinema several times a week, and if I liked the movie, pay for multiple viewings (D-theatre, IMAX, D-box etc depending upon options).
These days? I just won't go unless it's an Alien or Evil Dead movie (my two fave franchises).. why? People just suck these days... people think it's ok to talk during a movie, you see phone screens lighting up in the audience throughout the film, murmuring, excessive rattling of snack wrappers... people talk loudly throughout the trailers like it's not part of the cinema experience... it's just not enjoyable anymore. You have to either plan ahead (like a Tuesday lunchtime at a retail park so you know everyone will either be at work/college/uni/school or eating lunch - and even then you get an empty screen with maybe two older couples who think because the screen is empty the few others of us in there can't hear their conversations throughout) or, in the case of what I'm doing for Evil Dead Rise this April - pay £150-200 for a private screening at off peak times.
So yeah, I love the cinema, I don't like cinema audiences. And for that, I'm grateful for streaming releases now. A compromise for me would be limited streaming exclusive with physical media to follow.
I don't mind people talking during trailers so much, but I'm definitely with you on everything else! I've had some theatre experiences ruined by people who think it's ok to talk at full volume for some reason. Or have their phones at full brightness, constantly checking it. Or even people having that stupid function where their phone's light flashes whenever they get a notification, and it flashing through the whole movie. I just don't understand how theatre etiquette has completely gone out the window for a good portion of the public.
There've definitely been times where I've thought "f**k this, I just wanna watch movies at home from now on".
But honestly I still just love the experience of going to see a film on the big screen, especially when the audience is respectable and chill. And I've had some amazing theatre experiences that have made the film all that more impactful for me.
I've been kind of enjoying the trend lately to have either both a theatre run and streaming option at the same time, or a streaming option shortly after, or a few weeks into, the theatre run. Because I definitely get being hesitant to go out to the theatre, or even just being interested in a film enough to want to watch it, but not enough to go to the theatre. Although I am conflicted because I do want theatres to thrive and be an option still.
Either way, I definitely still want physical media releases.
Quote from: Acid_Reign161 on Jan 31, 2023, 03:06:08 PMHmm, if you'd asked me this 15 years ago, the answer would have been "Cinema!! Always theatrical release!!" I used to visit the cinema several times a week, and if I liked the movie, pay for multiple viewings (D-theatre, IMAX, D-box etc depending upon options).
These days? I just won't go unless it's an Alien or Evil Dead movie (my two fave franchises).. why? People just suck these days... people think it's ok to talk during a movie, you see phone screens lighting up in the audience throughout the film, murmuring, excessive rattling of snack wrappers... people talk loudly throughout the trailers like it's not part of the cinema experience... it's just not enjoyable anymore. You have to either plan ahead (like a Tuesday lunchtime at a retail park so you know everyone will either be at work/college/uni/school or eating lunch - and even then you get an empty screen with maybe two older couples who think because the screen is empty the few others of us in there can't hear their conversations throughout) or, in the case of what I'm doing for Evil Dead Rise this April - pay £150-200 for a private screening at off peak times.
So yeah, I love the cinema, I don't like cinema audiences. And for that, I'm grateful for streaming releases now. A compromise for me would be limited streaming exclusive with physical media to follow.
As technology progresses with high performance video and audio experiences at home and theatre audience behaviour deteriorate, Streaming services will win at the end.
Cringe, fibre optic's not even as good as Blu-ray.
If it's a film: cinema.